Energy and Climate Action Committee Meeting Aug 26, 2026

Okay. Pursuant to chapter 2 of the acts of 2025, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting remotely may do so via Zoom or by telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. This is the meeting of the energy and climate action committee. I just want to make sure that members can be seen and heard. So if you could please ensure that we can hear you. Allison >> here. >> Goldner >> here. >> Shear >> here. >> Lang >> here. >> Door >> here. Okay. Okay. Um so this is the meeting of the Ammeris Energy and Climate Action Committee. Um we are we were organized to help the town meet its climate goals uh climate mitigation and resilience goals and those goals in the plan for getting there were adopted from the climate action adaptation and resilience plan or the Karp which was adopted by the town council in 2021 and is due to be updated next year. It takes 2016 as its base year and calls for a 25% reduction in carbon emissions by 2025. We didn't quite make that, but we didn't. We did make progress. 50% by 2030 and carbon neutrality by 2050. So, this group has two functions. This this committee has two functions. One, to advise the town council and recommend or propose policies and actions that help us meet those goals and to promote a just, equitable, and speedy climate response through outreach and engagement uh of the town uh to to the town. So, with that said, uh let's go ahead and get started. Um there's a few interesting things to cover today. Let me just >> Lori, do you want to um ask someone to take minutes? >> Yes. Who would like to take minutes? The transcript I'm trying to take doesn't seem to be working like it usually does. I can usually see the transcript and I cannot see it and there's a place for me to save it and I cannot see that either. So, it may be that this is not working. So, we still do need a notetaker. >> Yeah. And I don't think I can use those for um minutes anyway. And the formatting that we have to do is very specific. So, >> um I I did send out the template to everybody, the new uh minutes format. So, if you could use that um and I can I can edit them after. Just do your best and get them to me and then I'll format them later. >> Bart's still pretty new, so can I ask? And Emily, I think you've done it a couple times lately. So maybe Don or or Andrew. Did Am I right about that? I think Emily did it last time and >> and the time before. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And my internet's really bad, so I think I'm going to put my video off just in case. >> Okay, >> I can do it. >> All right. Thank you, Don. >> I'll do it next time. >> Great. Thanks, Andrew. Um, all right. So, let's see. Uh usually the next thing we do is Oh, are the approval of the minutes now after public comment? >> Yes, >> the other way around. Okay, so public comment, there are no attendees, so we won't worry about that. We'll go right to approval of the minutes. Um I will share the minutes, which are here somewhere. Uh here we go. Let me do that. share. That's the agenda. Those are the minutes. Okay. Can everybody now see those minutes? >> Nope. >> Not yet. Uh >> oh. Hold on. Black screen. There you go. There you go. >> All right. So, uh, I just saw one thing that I wasn't sure what it was. Is this it from the minutes? Right. This is it. Okay. Um, we had a nice uh, presentation by James. I sent some information to James and you, Stephanie. Did you guys get that? Uh, >> I got it and I forwarded it to him. >> Okay. Um, we talked about a retreat. We'll pick that up again next time after we maybe or maybe not have new members. Um, there was one thing. Oh, yeah. The education and outreach. There was something here about Goldener discussed water source heat pumps and the potential for initiative in Amoris. That's what I originally read, but I didn't know what that was. I didn't recognize it. uh because I would not have suggested a water source heat pump initiative in Ammeris, but I think that probably refers to the conversation about uh thermal resources and the fact that wastewater heat and public municipal water can be used for a thermal loop that runs water sourced heat pumps. Um, so assuming that's what that was about. And Emily, if if you think differently, let me know. I just couldn't >> I think whatever you think it is is right. I get very lost in these conversations. >> Yeah, I I feel that was probably getting technical. So, >> some of that might have been from my notes, too. So, I think between the two of us, I >> I didn't go back and listen. Yeah. I didn't go back and listen to the recording, which I usually do. >> Yeah. So, I just stuck in there that Goldner discussed thermal resources like waste like the wastewater treatment plant and public water supply because those are thermal resources, believe it or not. Uh, and possible contributions by Ammeris to UMass's decarbonization efforts. It's a little obscure, but it's correct like that, I think. >> Okay, that's fine. Can you get rid of the question mark and send me your edit? >> Yeah, I will send you this edit. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. I saw I'll make a little um highlight there so I don't forget. >> Great. Thank you. >> Okay. Other than that, I thought it was fine, brief, and to the point. Any other any other comments? If not, we need a a uh move to accept the minutes with the changes and a second. We can move to accept. >> Thanks, Bart. Second. >> I can second them. Thanks, Don. >> Okay. And thank you. >> And vote in no particular order. Allison, >> yes. >> Golder, >> yes. >> Shear, >> yes. >> Lang, >> Dane. >> Door, >> yes. >> Okay, minutes are approved. >> Okay, so moving on. I think this is probably going to be a fairly short meeting today. Um, in part I have to apologize. I have been consumed by getting a white paper out to UMass before the start of the semester or at least a draft of it. Bart knows about this. Um, I will share it with this group once it's complete. Um, but uh, I did have a look, we're now into the education and outreach part of the agenda and the landlord heat pump initiative is the first thing on that. And I did b have a look at the uh, la last week. I hadn't realized that all the information I wanted was that you had done it already. I think I had the wrong copy of the of the spreadsheet. So this week I did spend some time with that list and realized that it is not what we need. Uh unfortunately there are very few large landlords listed and the problem is that places like the Boulders and uh Mil River and the Meadows and all those big apartment complexes that probably have 200 apartments are listed as one. So that does not help us. Um so I don't know how to fix that. Stephanie. Um, >> I can tell them what we if you say what we need, like be precise about what it is we need. >> I can pass and I would like it as I'm I'm I'm requesting that you send me an email with this request. I will send an email and let me write it down because so we need we need um you know the names and whatever contact information you have for landlords in Ammerst along with how many units H uh and those unit addresses, how many units they manage, how many units they own because this is about ownership, not about management, how many units they own and the addresses of those units. Did I leave anything out? contact information and that could be mailing address, email, I'll put this in bulleted form, phone numbers, and I just want to say that we will do our best. This may not be a quick turnaround and also we may not be able to get you the information exactly as you want it because this is what we faced last time. I mean, that had to do more with fuel. >> Yeah. type in each unit. But um we'll do our best. We'll see what we can come up with. >> And we've got to somehow know how many units these guys are. >> I think I think we do. I just don't know if it's like an easy way to I I mean there is software that the town uses. I don't use it, which is why I'm saying I don't know how specific it can get. So we'll do our best. >> You let as long as you let us know what we need. >> Mhm. So, is it more that we need the amount of units per building? And >> yeah, we need to know what build I mean the building it isn't like they list the Boulders except okay, the Boulders is actually the Boulders LLC owns it. So, that one's pretty obvious, but it's not, you know, usually it's a somebody's name or a business name um at the address of the Meadows, right? So, oh, okay, that's the Meadows main address. And the problem is it's not even, you know, the apartments are all on a loop drive that has a name, but the what I noticed is that the address of the apartment complex is on the main row that that loop drive is attached to. So, it's not even immediately obvious what apartment complex it is. I had to go on a map. I I I worked it backwards. I looked at some of the big apartment complexes, looked up their addresses, and then searched for that in the spreadsheet. on a lot of them I couldn't find the address listed in the spreadsheet because it was an apartment unit, right? That it was the office. Um, and I it took me a moment to realize that it was the main street, you know, it was Route 9 or East Hadley Road that was listed as the address. Um, you know, I I the first building I noticed with that was was I went to one of the addresses at 22 Lassie. That's Clark. That's I think public housing. Mhm. >> Um, which I didn't realize, but there even for that one, there's only five units listed on the spreadsheet, and they're all listed as 22 LEI, >> right? >> And they're all listed as owned by three of them. There are three different owners listed for for those five units. So, it's >> it's not >> it just doesn't specify the unit for each one. >> Yeah, it doesn't say anything about the the apartment address or anything like that. That one was the most that one was the easiest one to figure out because 22 LEI was that one building. A lot of these complexes have multiple buildings. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. >> So, it's it's >> okay. We'll do our best, but again, I know it seems like >> it's just sometimes these things seem like they should be straightforward, but they're not. So, >> we'll do our best. >> Yeah. And it's fine. It'll march slow. Believe me, I've got plenty to do right now. uh it'll march slowly forward. But the um the reason we need to know that again is because there are different rules and different incentives for landlords that own four units or fewer and landlords that own big complexes. >> Yeah. Yep. >> Um and right now even the big complexes are showing up as one unit. So that doesn't doesn't help. >> Okay. >> All right. So that's uh that's that. Let's see. Um, I don't have anything else to say about that. I think once we get that list and we get it started it again and get it sorted again, I think it's time to I I work best when I have a deadline. Um, so uh once we have a list we can work with, I think we should set a time for a first presentation and then you know maybe six weeks ahead and then in the next two meetings I will bring slides and you know we'll all talk about it and maybe get trained up. Um along those lines, well let let's keep going. I want to touch on one other thing before we end education and outreach. Um but let me first uh ask is there any anything else for the heat pump initiative? Uh coordination with local groups. Okay. And um I I will just say uh well actually we'll climate plan. We'll talk about that later. Um okay. And then uh education series um I did contact someone about who would be the right person to give. So last week we talked a little bit about in the upcoming climate plan that we're going to have to work on. One of the things that is very up and coming and the way forward for decarbonizing communities are is district heat is providing district heat. Um if not just to the town buildings instead of putting individual air source heat pumps that have a coop of two or three or maybe four at best in the winter. Um putting in water source heat pumps. This may have been where the water source thing came from from this idea of district heat. Um maybe that's where that came from. It was part of the education series, but it was listed in the education series as district heat. Any rate, um you know, the idea would be to put in a uh another utility which is 55 degree water, right? Or some temperature water which whose temperature is maintained using thermal resources around town. the wastewater treatment heat from that thing. Maybe from the reservoirs, uh maybe from a ground source, a ground source bore field, a ground source geothermal field, something that you know, some water that circulates around. It doesn't get used up. It just circulates around and it carries heat with it. And you attach every building or every town building can attach its water source heat pump to that. And those can have a coop as high as eight. Six. Six is pretty typical. So that's a huge savings, right? Um the other thing is it's possible when you have something like that that other houses can hook themselves in as well. If you have excess capacity, you could invite anyone who wants to to put in a water source heat pump and hook up to it. Uh so it becomes a new utility like like public water. Um, and it's turning out, especially for some small towns, to be the least expensive way to put in a single pipe down main street and hook in the four main the four buildings that, you know, need to be heated. Turns out to be the cheapest way to uh decarbonize, cheaper than putting in individual air source heat pumps in every building and, you know, refitting all the all the heat. um turns out to be a very effective way to to to especially if you have hydronulic heat, very effective way to get hot water into your building. Um because the heat pumps now can do 160 degrees, the water source heat pumps can do 160°ree water, which is hot enough to heat most buildings. Um so this is a really interesting thing and something we should learn about for the upcoming climate uh carp um rework, right? for the update of the carp. So, I had suggested that we get somebody in to talk about that and I have started to look into that. I don't have a name yet, but I think I should by next week. I have a couple people I can think of off the top of my head. I just wanted to email a few folks and see what they thought first. So, uh by next week, I think I'll have a name and we can try to set a date. But I think it's interesting and important that we have a webinar at some point on district heat. Um also relevant to what's going on at UMass. uh so folks can understand what's what's going on there as well. So that was the one thing I know I was supposed to do. What else was on that list? Anyone remember what the other ideas were? Um let's see. I mean the um and if not the other thing I was thinking that I wonder what people think about is instead of having um instead of having two meetings a month where we're on Zoom, especially once we start the landlord outreach program, maybe it would make sense to meet publicly to do an outreach for each thing uh once a month. You know, I'm not sure how this would work. Instead of meeting on Zoom, let's use the same time slot to meet at the library and outreach to landlords or outreach to um you know, I'm not not sure. This is not a fully formed idea. I was just thinking how else can we reach people? People should know what's going on at UMass. They should be involved in it because it could be bad if they're not, right? um they may end up with a nuclear reactor in their backyard if they're not careful, you know. Um there's a lot of issues that folks need to know about and they don't come to these meetings. So maybe we can find a way to go to them. Um so the only thing is we're not meeting in person right now. So I think and if we do a separate meeting, I mean obviously it still has to be posted. um minutes have to be taken if you have a quorum. So I just want to >> right >> caution that. So I mean this, you know, again, your your meetings are recorded and I don't know, you know, if you wanted to do a special session like we've done before, which is the education series, you know, maybe we just do a broader outreach for it. You know, maybe we do more targeted outreach well in advance, not like two weeks before, but like a month or more. So if you the further out you schedule it the better because it gives us more time to do the outreach, >> right? >> Does any town committee meet in person and record it? >> The cons town council are the only ones that do and they're hybrid. Even their subcommittees don't meet in person. >> And the town council has a dedicated space for themselves and all that. Yeah. >> Yep. So, they meet. Yeah. It's a hybrid meeting. >> At the same time, we can do outreach events. I mean, we can show up at at the sustainability festival with all of us there and do an outreach there and not have to record it and not have to record. >> It's not the same. You're not all there at the same time. >> You don't have a quorum there at the same Yeah. But you don't have a quorum there at the same time. You haven't I think maybe one year you did, but briefly. And you didn't discuss any business. It was just speaking to individuals in the >> That's what I'm thinking about though that that's the idea is instead of having a regular meeting, having some sort of an outreach event where we're speaking to people about something. >> Well, I do want to say again, a lot of people show up at the block party and that's September 17th. And if you don't like the space where we've been, we could request a different space that maybe is more visible on the street rather than part of all of the town committees. if you want, I can ask. But, you know, a lot of people go and I really feel like that's an opportunity to get people's attention and you just have to find a way to grab them. you know, if you have a sign or you know, the first time you all I mean, you weren't part of the committee then, but the first time that the ECAC was at the black party, they had a lot of people stop by because they had a big sign and they engaged people as they walked by and got them to um >> we have the big sign, >> you know, write down suggestions and that kind of thing. So, >> we could try it. I just I've not been happy. Maybe it's my own preference. I I have trouble with all the sound, all the noise at the block party, right? There's always music in the background. It's pretty loud. >> Yep. >> Um my ears start to hurt after a while. I have a hard time blocking out white noise and background noise, so I it's hard for me to have a conversation. >> Yeah. >> Um but if other folks want to do that, I I think I really I love the sustainability festival, but is anybody interested in doing the block party? Because I think I can't leave that one. Unfortunately, the block party is I have a conflict that day uh with a a daycare event. So, >> okay. It's the 17th, you said. I need to look at that. >> Yes, I believe so. And I'd have to let >> What time is it? >> Angela know. >> Um I think it starts around I want to say 5:30. We typically start setting up around 3 3:30, >> but I help with some of the other um town tables. Um but it goes until dark. So usually at this time of year that's around 700 7:30. That's a few hours. >> A couple hours on a Thursday off evening >> I'm busy until 6:30. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think I have to be in Boston that day unfortunately. We can talk about it one more time next week, but I think unless um this our next meeting. Yeah, it's the week before that. Unless uh >> Yeah, I think you kind of because I'd have to make I'd have to make sure that we secured a table. I may do it anyway just for sustainability. >> Um you know, >> so but >> so if you do that, let us know. Maybe somebody will join you, right? It's not impossible. I mean, I might join for a few minutes, but I don't want to commit to lead it or be there the whole time. >> Um, Bernard might be interested. Um, and we might have new member or members by then. So, there's some possibility there as well. Um, all right. So, let's let's leave that. I um I'm all right. I I will think on that a little more and try to find some, you know, I'm thinking a sustainability cafe sort of thing, right? You know, where we sit around and answer people's questions, get them information about heat pumps. We sit in the library, we sit at Amoris Coffee, we invite people into something like that that's a little more sociable and a little more uh chance to talk deeply in a place that isn't really loud. Um, >> yeah. I mean, you could definitely do something like that easily, but maybe it's not all of you. Maybe it's like one or two of you at a time and you take turns doing something like that, >> right? And instead, and that's what I was saying is so that we're not putting having to put even more time into this depending on how these meetings go. We could do a, you know, the full two-hour meeting once a month and then the other slot have a sustainability cafe and not a meeting. So, at least until we're working on the I think when we start working on the um climate uh plan, we're going to want to meet every as often as possible to try to get that out the door. Um but that's a few months away at this point. So, >> I do like that idea of getting out there and talking to people, >> right? maybe stick the idea of a sustainability cafe in the notes somewhere. Um, that'll clue me in to what that was about. So, if folks have ideas for topics that we could address, you know, I think I think if we make it a regular thing, the public will know we're there and maybe show up and even if it's just a few folks at a time, if it's a regular thing, it has an impact. Um, all right. Anything else for the education series ideas? Bart, this sort of segus into what's going on with um the teaching at UMass. Uh, and that's sort of the next thing. There's sort of a intersection here between advisory support and education. Um the town I always put UMass climate plan under advisory and support because I feel like the town needs to know about this and be keeping keeping tabs on it which they haven't really been doing. Um so there's another piece of this which is that uh the students at UMass including Bart are getting rigged up to do a teachin on this topic and the white paper I've been putting together is related to that. Bart, you want to talk a little bit about what's going on with uh the UMass climate plan in the next in the next two months? >> Uh yeah, sure. Um so yeah, I mean for the teaching that is more something that Jess is doing and I haven't I don't really know much about that. Um >> okay. But do you want to do that now or should I talk about >> keep keep going and then I'll go back and and fill you in on what Jess is up to what the other students up to. >> Um yeah, so there's been a few meetings um trying to so um we're going to reach out to like all like the deans of UMass to um start getting the word out about the um engagement event. That's what day is that again? Like October 17 maybe? >> Yep. >> Uh 19 to 21st. >> Um and what else? >> Sorry, can you repeat the dates? >> I wasn't the 21st. So Monday through the Wednesday. >> Okay. October. >> October. >> Yep. Um, and so there's going to be like different meetings like one specifically for students, one for like faculty, one for like people who are more focused on research or like the facilities. Um, and yeah, we've like the decarbonization subcommittee members have been like putting comments on like the slides for example that are going to get shown. So we're still um working on that. Um, >> has Jess been contributing to that a lot because she seems to be quite up on District Heat and what the issues are. >> Um, >> yeah, I think she made a few comments. >> Good. Good. >> Um, yeah, I did as well. Um, general stuff. There hasn't been many more updates. Um yeah, they've um still talking about um different things um different technologies and what is like the most efficient and cost effective and um yeah >> that's all that's all man ever wants to talk about are different technologies. ies and it's he's an engineer and it drives me crazy because we know what the technologies are that work and what they should be doing is educating people on the committee about them rather than you know continuing to go over things that are pie in the sky or um I don't know I don't know if that's what they're doing for sure but that sure is what it looked like from the version of the slides that I saw >> yeah there's there's also like talking about technologies that like we already have like just comparing like different like chillers and boilers and um heat pumps and stuff like that. >> Um >> yeah, the fact that they're still talking about boilers is is disappointing, right? Because they shouldn't be talking about boilers. That's crazy. I mean, you can get a COP of six instead of a COP of one. Efficiency six times better, right? Six times a sixth the price for the taxpayer compared to Right. Um so it bugs me that they're doing that. They're doing that because they want to keep the steam. So there's a lot of issues and they're fairly technical and I think what I'll do is um Bart when I have the uh so the other part of this because a lot of this stuff is pretty technical and uh my fear is that UMass is drowning everybody in the technical stuff rather than talking about what they should be talking about which is how you actually decarbonize today with existing technology and what the right way to do that is. There are there are a couple of I mean there's basically two possibilities for how to decarbonize in a reasonable way. One of them is more efficient than the other. Uh the other one looks more like the system we have on campus now and therefore makes the facilities people happier. It's a centralized thing that looks a lot like that. It's just no more steam and no more burning fossil fuels. Um the problem is they won't really want to keep the steam there because they did a lot of work to get that steam in place. It's all fairly new. uh they don't want to talk about, you know, actually decarbonizing. They want to talk about keeping the steam. And so they're going over all of these technologies which are bad for the planet and a dumb idea or not or don't exist yet like small modular reactors. Um so you know, and they're drowning everybody in it. It's it's all Tilman wanted to do the whole first year of the committee and it's they're still now they're doing it with RMF. They're making RMF go through the same thing. Um, so what's happening in response to that is that uh Jess and um and me and a few other faculty librarians uh I think there's at least one other Bart you're on the list um as well are putting together a white paper and a teachin and the teachin Jess is putting together a set of slides that will be uh slightly different from the white paper. The white paper is going to be my the thing that I've been working on with the faculty is a expression of what the right way to do this is and what that means. What we currently do because people don't understand how the buildings are heated at UMass. So a real simple explanation of how things are done now and a real the simplest explanation I can come up with of how we need to do things going forward and what the what the choices are. Um and it's not me making stuff up. It's, you know, this is well known in district heating. There's a whole organization for district heat and there's many publications on it and there's basically two ways forward to decarbonize and they're called fourth generation and fifth generation district heat. And here's what that means and here's an example of what that means. Um, and those are what UMass should be discussing and are still not. Um, and it's it's more complicated than that because it's not just like there's one district at UMass. There may be several smaller districts. They may cut it up into pieces. It's it's it's a complicated mess no matter what you do. But any heating any city, right, is is a complicated mess. Putting in district heat anywhere. The system they have now is a complicated mess. There are steam pipes that need to be replaced sometime in the near future. And I fear they're going to spend their money doing that instead of con converting them to something else. Um so, you know, there it's they're always digging stuff up on campus. Anyone who's lived here any amount of time knows that. and and that's why they have this district he eat heating system they have to maintain and there are much better ways and more efficient ways to do it that are also less disruptive to campus. Um, so anyway, that's sort of where I am and and so Jess and the feeling is very strong that nobody really, you know, we talk about this stuff, it's all too technical. It goes right through, right? Um, so we need to do a little educating. So that's sort of what this is about that in September, uh, Jess is trying to put together a teaching. I'm trying to put together a white paper that'll be out in the next two weeks. I hope uh in October they're going to have this presentation and by then I'm hoping that a good chunk of the local community and UMass will have some idea of what the heck they're talking about and why a lot of it is BS. Um you know, so that's sort of where we're trying to go with this. Um because we need we need allies if we're going to make them do the right thing because they're not going to want to do the right thing. Um >> Lori, I have a question. >> Yep. Go ahead, Stephanie. I'm sorry. >> That's okay. Um because I think part of this um when we're using the terminology about the options earlier we were talking about district heat as a potential opportunity for the town. >> Yeah. >> But now we're talking about district heat as a problem for the university or are you saying it should be the option for the university? I just want clarification because that might be confusing for people. >> It is it is district heat means a lot of different things. Uh the university has a district heating system based on steam. It's an old generation of district heat. It's very inefficient, extremely inefficient, and it requires burning fossil fuel to make steam. Newer generations of district heat use heat pumps, thermal resources, um, and low temperature hot water or ambient water that they circulate around. And that's what UMass needs to transition to a newer form of district heat. So, it's all district heat because, um, but it means different things. uh it mean it means different implement different it it's it's just more modern implementations um of the same the same idea you know you heat everybody at once you you provide heat for everybody all at once >> so am I to understand Lori that you're talking about district heat is this circuit heating everybody at once it's it's how the heat is generated >> it's how the heat is generated how it's moved around yeah Okay, >> it's how it's generated and how it's moved around. And there are some really exciting, interesting newer options that have already been implemented all over Europe that work great and that are sort of brilliant. That's the one that I'd like to see us discuss for possible implementation in town that Ashefield is is probably might be doing um that far Frammingham is doing. So there's there are you know examples of it around um and uh it's really what UMass should be discussing since since UMass you know a little town like Amoris doesn't have the resources that UMass has right and we also don't have the control over all the property right that you need to start digging stuff up um and maybe we do because we have the roads but uh it's much easier for UMass to and more efficient for them to put in a district, you know, they already have a district heating system and they just have to rethink how it's going to how they're going to transition it to something that is decarbonized. >> Lori, you mentioned um fourth and fifth generation district heating and that UMass also has district heating. What generation is that? >> Yeah, it's like first or second, I forget which one. Whichever one uses steam. I think I think it might be first generation, maybe second. I forget the definition of the earlier ones. uh might even be third generation, might be steam, I don't remember. Uh but at fourth generation, you get rid of fossil fuels. Basically, you get rid of fossil fuels and the heat is still provided centrally by low temperature hot water and chilled water for air conditioning. Fifth generation, you get rid of the low temperature hot water and the chilled water and provide an ambient temperature loop and everybody has their own heat pump that's connected to it. So instead of having big central heat pumps in a big central plant, it's all deoized. And that deoization is part of the problem because it's not what the facilities guys know how to do. They're used to dealing with giant equipment in huge buildings and this would change that dramatically. So uh it's it's it's a different mindset. fourth generation, you know, the the low temperature, hot and cold running water would be would be in my book would be acceptable and that's not such a big stretch for them and that was also what the original carbon mitigation task force presented. So I you know I think this was we should come back to this maybe I can give once the white paper is out I will volunteer to give a little 20-minute presentation on what a law means um to educate folks um maybe in about a month we should probably move on. Is there anything any other questions about that? Or for the record, I should say that, you know, the folks at MIT have been fighting this battle for like three years now. Um, there's a bunch of faculty there that are experts in district heat and know how this works way better than I do, right? I've been learning from them, faculty and students both. Um there's a woman who teaches a course that I hope to take once it's an open software open MIT open course or whatever it's called. Um and those guys wrote a white paper that actually proposes they they actually did the analysis of a section of campus and proposed how exactly how to implement uh one of these district heating systems these modern district heating systems for for MIT. MIT is pushing back because they also have steam tunnels and they also have you know they don't want that they don't want to change it and they don't want it to be decentralized and uh the faculty have made a very strong case for why it is economically and ecologically way more advantageous to to do this thing this fifth generation system um and they have been fighting this battle for three years now and still haven't won it so I don't expect to win this anytime soon Bart I just hope to to to push the needle and get them to start moving in that direction. Um, it's uh it's it's hard and having a white paper helps. The MIT GEO folks have really done a lot with that very technical white paper that they have. Uh, all right. Onward. Transportation any nothing. >> I signed up for the alert. I don't think they've had a meeting since our last meeting. I think they're more monthly. All right. Uh, regional and state policy updates then. I have none. Uh, it's the same. I think it's the same as last time. I have not gotten any alerts about the energy bill. Have you heard anything, Stephanie? No, I think it's still in in committee. Um, so we're all just waiting. It's in conference committee. Any other advisory or support issues? Things we should be communicating to the town that it's important for them to do. Okay. Any topics that we need to add to the agenda? Anything we left out? EAC member updates. Other updates? I have one. Um, as the Amoris Heat pump program draws to a close, actually this is a question and an update. Um, two things. The Pioneer Valley Planning Commission now has a heat pump program um that if you Google heat pump coaching, Pioneer Valley Planning Commission, I think the web page will come up where people can request a coach. Um but Stephanie, I'm wondering what is the what does closing up the program look like? How does it move forward in Ammerst? >> So, um I forgot to put staff updates. So I guess I can put an up just include my update here. Um so there is no plan to sort of keep this initiative going. This was a funded we had funding and there was a timeline for this program to wrap up. So it's just a sort of complete project as is. There's no continued coaching because it would cost us to do that because we've been working with CCT. So, you know, I think I would say you all um you especially Lauria have been talking about trying to pull together some kind of local coaching initiative and I think maybe coordinating somehow with the PVPC opportunity might be something to look into >> or I thought I would share this with you guys. Um have you seen this? Uh Stephanie, are you aware of this? I haven't seen it, but I'm not I'm just looking to see. >> It's a gov. It's a Pelum website, >> right? So, there are some communities that were able to engage. I think that they got funding and I don't know if Pelum is one of them and I haven't looked at this so just reading this right now is not going to help me but I can say that I know that there was some funding for um some communities to work with like an energy manager and I don't know if that's what this is or if this is something different. This is three energy coaches in Pelum, >> right? So, >> they are getting enormous feedback to this website. They have I keep getting notices from heatsmart alliance asking me, "Are you coaching this person?" Because people are sending in waiverss. >> Yep. >> For coaches in Ammerst, Ammerst residents, there have been three two or three two residents in Ammerst, I think one in Belchuretown in the last week, um have gone through this website to find a coach. It took us a while to figure out where they were coming from, but it's it's through electrify Pelum. Um, so they're going to Pelum because they're not finding the Amoris website. They're not finding the CCT website apparently. And >> so our program is very specific though. >> Yes. Right. It is. >> So they have to be completely decarbonizing. >> Yeah. >> So I don't know why they're having trouble finding the Ammerst website. It's I mean it's right. The town has been advertising it. It's on the dashboard. It's >> it's been advertised. So and CCT promotes it too. So, I don't know. That's maybe why people maybe people aren't looking in the right places, but >> it's a different what they're doing is different than what we're doing. We're offering specifically an incentive. It's a very specific initiative and >> I have had some conversations with CCT about what's the next iteration of this, but we haven't done anything, you know, we haven't really spent any time because we're still trying to wrap up this one. So, I can't think about that until we finish this. And I think um you know, you've been talking about this for a while and I know you are very plugged in. So, no, no pun pun intended. Um but I think if you have some ideas or I I think this is where we can talk about it. I'm >> I would love to just Yeah, I would love to just see us have something like this Pelman program. And as far as I'm concerned, I mean, for starters, until we get other coaches involved, it can just be me as far as I'm concerned because if they were doing 15 a year, I can do a dozen a year. I can't do 15, but I can do a dozen. And uh, you know, I'm not right now. I have capacity. I had two client I had one client recently. Uh, I might have another coming up, but um, I have capacity to do about a person every month. And I wouldn't mind if the town would connect me. Um, you know, it's it's been a little disappointing that CCT hasn't coordinated at all with heatart or with me over this stuff because uh a lot of their clients end up coming to me anyway. Not a lot, but a handful because a lot of them I referred, right? >> Yeah. Um, >> yeah. >> So, uh, it it's it might be nice to have some way of, uh, smoothly maybe redirecting the link to an Ammeris program if you need heat coaching or just sending them to PVCC, right? >> Yeah. I mean, and we can talk. We haven't honestly I just, you know, I can I only have so many projects and balls I can have up in the air at one time. So, I'm just trying to get through this one. when we complete this one, you know, we can sort of talk about what, you know, what the next step would be in terms of coaching. I, you know, we've been talking about trying to do coaching for some time and doing it in an organized fashion. So, I'm open to it. I think PVPC might be the best opportunity right now. >> Y >> um to get people to that, but I think we want to wrap up what we're doing before we start promoting something different. Yep. >> So, for right now, we're still focused on the CCT program, >> right? >> Because we're so close. Like, >> I'm just thinking that that for folks who might have clicked on that link before, you don't want that the link to an Ammeris program to go away. You want it to redirect to something else. >> Well, because right now it's through CCT, so it's not I mean, they basically the link goes to them. So, we won't be doing that. So, we'll, you know, we'll have a new either we'll have a new initiative with a new link because it won't be going to CCT. >> Oh, there is no ammerismass.gov web page that links you there, is there? >> No, because it's not it's CCT is the administrator of that program. >> All right. Yeah, I would have thought there'd be a link somewhere that sends you to CCT, but there's not. >> I mean, it's on the sustainability dashboard. I think that if you look at Amoris heat pump, do Ammeris heat pump program, >> but again, it should take you to CCT. >> Okay, but that's the one I'm talking about then. Um, if you go to sustainability and there's a heat pump program link there and it currently goes to CCT, rather than making a new page, let's redirect that one to go to either Pioneer Valley or to uh something that Amoris puts together, but Pioneer Valley is probably the one to start with since it's there. >> And yes, I mean Oh, definitely. We Yeah. Yeah, we can do that. But, you know, we'll just call it something different though. Exactly. We just have to call it something different. Yeah, we can. That's Yes, we can do that. But I think we want to talk about what we're directing people to, too. I mean, I think we want to have some information, not just simply send them. I think we want to maybe beef up coaching and sort of make that more of a thing sort of the way Pelum did. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Just a thought. Okay. Good. Uh, it's been on my mind. Let's see. So, any other ECAC member updates? If not, then Stephanie Oh, staff updates isn't on here for some reason, Stephanie. >> Yeah, that's what I just said. I think I must have inadvertently um deleted it. >> Yep. >> So, I'll get it back on next time, but that's why I spoke during the ECAC member updates, >> right? Any other updates? >> Um, no, not really. Like I said, we have got some funding. I still think it's embargoed because I haven't seen a press release yet. So, I can't really announce what it is yet. So, uh once I can, I will. But I have had a kickoff meeting about that funding and hopefully we'll start working on that project soon and I'll be happy to tell you about it more when I can. >> Okay. And other exciting news, we have a new school that's opening soon next week, right? >> First day was today. >> Was today. Oh, wow. Wow. How'd it go? >> The buses were late, but otherwise I think things went well. >> Buses are always late the first day. >> Yeah. >> No, we got a tour last week. I mean, it's incredible. It's beautiful. The playground is super fun, I've heard. >> Cool. >> Yeah. Net zero school. All right. Progress. Um, all right. With that, uh, items for the next agenda. anything out of the ordinary for next time? I think it's the same agenda for next time around. >> You mentioned something earlier in this meeting about I don't know if you mentioned either retreat or >> for next time >> because because we want to find if we have more members we want to try to put that together with the new members. >> Okay. I don't Yeah. I mean, I don't know that we'd have them in time for the next meeting, but we can just put it on, and if they're not on, we'd just continue the discussion later. >> All right. Yeah. Yeah. Not a bad idea. We'll at least have some idea. Um, >> yeah. >> Uh, other than that, time for public comment. And there is an attendee. Um do we have any if you have uh if our attendee has comment you can raise your hand and we will see you and let you in the webinar. All right. If not then we will go to ajourn. Give you guys about an hour back today. Um, I had a feeling this was going to be a fairly short meeting without that landlord list. Um, but I hope maybe by next time we'll be able to get started on that initiative. Uh, okay. So, we need a move to adjourn and a second. And I guess these days we actually need a vote. Everybody wants to stay. >> Move to adjourn. >> That's all you had to say. >> I second it. We have to second, right? I second it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And uh vote to adjurnn in no particular order. Allison, >> yes. >> Golder, >> yes. >> Lang, >> yes. >> Sharer, >> yes. >> Andor, >> yes. >> See y'all in two weeks. >> Okay. Bye all. >> Bye.