EFAP #400 - The Eighth Anniversary of Pausing Every Frame - Covering Everything with Everyone - 2

Rain assaults the ground as Batman takes large powerful steps towards a figure descending from the sky. The striking silhouette of Superman explodes into view as lightning flashes across the clouds. The two titans lock eyes as Superman's boots hit gravel. Batman breathes deeply and writes himself. Superman shows no signs of apprehension and begins advancing towards his opponent. Within moments, the two colossi are standing inches apart. >> I admire your courage. >> I imagine bravery isn't something you're accustomed to. >> Challenging me isn't my idea of bravery. [laughter] >> You don't You don't know the meaning of of the word. You've never tasted fear. You've never felt pain. That's about to change. >> Lightning erupts in the darkened sky. Superman focuses on Batman's cowl, utilizing his X-ray vision. >> Bruce Wayne. I'm actually impressed. >> Batman remains silent. >> I'm surprised you can find time to kill criminals in between drinks. A tiny smirk appears on Batman's face. >> That's rich. How many people could you have saved while you snapped photos at that party? >> Superman is taken aback. >> What? You thought You thought You thought a pair of glasses could fool the world's greatest [laughter] the world's greatest detective. >> I won't tolerate vigilante justice. >> The keep out of Gotham. >> Branding your victims murder. What separates you from them? Don't lecture me about death. Thousands were killed the day you decided to help. The low lives I put in the ground would have hurt good people. You nearly decimated an entire population because you chose not to leave Sod out of the city. >> So I should have just stood by and let him destroy the planet. The people you've killed may be criminals, but they're fathers, sons, brothers. You've crossed the line, and I can't accept that. >> Tell that to Zod. Snap neck. [laughter] >> GOD, >> HOW do you tell something neck? >> How do you tell? [laughter] >> You're not saying it to it. More like it's more like at it. [laughter] >> At something like you don't talk to a rock. You talk at a rock. >> Laying there on the ground. You just [laughter] grab his neck. >> People call me the Mr. Rogers of YouTube every once in a while. I faked cancer. I faked a stroke. And hopefully uh one of you will put a bullet IN MY BRAIN. >> STOP, DUDE. >> Horrible things that I've done. I have to be here TOMORROW AND TOMORROW AND TOMORROW AND TOMORROW AND tomorrow and forever. This is my hell. You don't get to leave hell. I'm tired of being such a lull cow. >> How you [music] feeling out there in the field? >> It [ __ ] me up for life. >> I'm not suicide baiting or anything like that. >> I hate being alive. I hate being alive. >> You're going sick of your roles. >> I'm in the middle of an actual mental break. >> Baby boogie one is [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] GOT THE [ __ ] >> I'm going to [music] deep coat my dad's [ __ ] because I'm jealous that he raped everyone but me. >> Dangerous groups [music] that we're dealing with now. >> I [ __ ] you, Dan. I [ __ ] you. >> You so [music] ugly your father wouldn't even molest you. >> I think you are [music] the lowest of the low. Even though they are rapists and [ __ ] Nazis, [music] they are more redeemable than you because I probably could get away with murder [music] at this point. >> At least they're doing something they [ __ ] believe in. Love you though. >> This can't be my legacy, man. I can't die while doing this show. I I can't have my last thing on [music] the internet being me being a [ __ ] mall cow. >> You stupid. I'm broken. I'm [ __ ] [music] great. I'm real. This isn't real. This isn't real. I'm ordained. I'm ordained. [music] I'm not going to lay down. I just told you I can't. They might use [music] this level of scrutiny. >> Oh, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Do not do it. >> No. No. >> One for me and one for >> my sexual abuse involved my [ __ ] tits. My [ __ ] bootle scream. >> Holy. You make us all look mad. [music] Get the [ __ ] finally die. You [ __ ] Leave me [music] the [ __ ] alone. Leave me the [ __ ] alone. >> I have to print [music] on some documents. Never did. I never did >> because she wanted him fired. [ __ ] >> I made my [music] accident. I have the a right. [music] Come on. >> Oh [music] my god. Boogie. >> No, [music] you're not. Boogie. No, this is not a punishment. >> I came here to lose weight like a goddamn [ __ ] [music] >> [ __ ] you. Shut the [ __ ] up. Prosecuting [music] your [ __ ] and prank me for a You remember we had a death in the [ __ ] family and we worked [music] through it. Do you? I wish I beat Jordy to death in the [ __ ] ring. [music] >> I'm done, man. I'm just done. I'm just done. I'm actually [music] legitimately done. Just do a couple holes. It's all right. I mean, it's not going to make a difference, right? It's not even intact. I don't know why. I lost my income. I lost my channel. I lost my life. I lost my [ __ ] ability to walk. 52-y old man with liar tattooed to his face. I have to grow a a grizzly Adams beard to hide this [ __ ] so that I can go to goddamn Walmart. You don't think I didn't pay the [ __ ] price? And we're back. >> I just I I love like how he can't even be consistent with whether or not he wants to sound like a hillbilly or if he [laughter] wants to >> kind of pull the accent in a little bit or maybe it's the other way around. I don't know which one I want to view as the default, you know, like which one is the one that he normally does and which one does he skew towards? It's hard to tell. >> He puts on. >> Yeah. Like which one is more fake? Is it the southern not southern I guess? >> Yeah, the hillbilly one's the fake. The faker fake one. Most people don't really have a very strong accent because it's just not a super prominent thing anymore really. So, >> well, in America, >> well, certainly in the South, it's not nearly as it's not like strong as a lot of people might stereotypically think, but >> Oh, pro. Oh, I I imagine that's probably not the case anymore. No, especially since the a lot of the populations there have grown a lot. So, there' be a lot of people coming from elsewhere. But, I mean, you know, it's always interesting cuz again, Australia doesn't really have our accents. There's basically three and they're just class based. Basically, is it upper class, middle class, or lower class? That's like our three accents here, more or less. >> So, the timer resets. We've completed 11 hours and 40 50 minutes. >> And uh so begins round two. >> You need to get a timer like the Dick Masterson episode at [laughter] the end of >> Oh, yeah. 12 hours. I'm [ __ ] leaving. That's it. Not a second over. To be clear, we're similar to that kind of energy when we get to the final hour. But yeah, for now, you know, it's all right. It's all going good. We got First part was filled with all kinds. >> Sort of the middleish section that's the hardest. I get like this weird >> by the way that happens in that third section I found. >> By the way, that that animation was super cool. I love it. That was a very good one. That little kiss at the end. That was uh [laughter] >> those two um the two ones we ran in the intro, we'll we'll be looking at them in part three as well as a few other [ __ ] and bubs. are great. >> Um, so today we've we've wrecked Marvel, of course, gone through that, checked it out, but it's not like we've done all of Marvel. There's still other Marly things that we could check out. For instance, did you guys hear about that Spider-Man movie that came out? >> Spider-Man. >> Heard of it? I've heard of it. >> Spider-Man came out. I thought it was coming out. >> Spider-Man's always coming out. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> it's like the 17th one. And I think they've cracked it this time. At least that's what I've heard. Everybody's been going crazy over it. >> Yeah, I let out a huge sigh when I sat down to watch that movie. >> Made a lot of money. >> Sigh of relief or sigh of frustration? What are we looking at here? >> Oh, so you uh your kid dragged you to this, right? No, I love the movie. Why? >> What the [ __ ] is wrong with you? >> Oh, I mean, today is actually the now that it's officially today in a lot of places in the US. That is two years ago Concord was released for PS5 and PC. >> Oh god. Two years ago. >> Two years. >> Two years. Yeah. >> Oh well, >> man. That was um >> That's crazy. I thought it was yesterday. >> That was a game that cost a lot of money that came out and then disappeared in like a month. >> So, uh >> that was unprecedented. Yeah. >> So, I want to start with Spider-Man's >> is um there's there's been discussion. Uh we may have done an EAP on this and we may have talked about uh let's call it criticisms. Yeah, we could say that criticisms of character character writing including but not limited to Gan Gray and her uh interest in killing. Now I want to I I do want to do a a retraction I'm afraid. I think we were all wrong about Gan Gray because those who don't know um there's been commentary that's been uh there's basically been a PSA regarding uh Gan Gray and how you should feel about her from the writers. So going to give us >> a good sign by the way. >> Well, listen. All right. Not to quote a genius. >> Not to quote a genius, but one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. >> Uh oh. >> Wait, what? [laughter] What do I >> sounds familiar? >> That was today. That was yesterday. >> That was today. [laughter] >> The [ __ ] Toby quote. >> Why would you choose to defend this? >> That's amazing. Uh, >> you remember when we talked about like building your entire personality? >> Walk in front of the taxi. >> So, if I may, if I may. Okay. So, >> okay. Go ahead. Gan is ultimately revealed to be a sympathetic character in search of her sister Sarah Gray. >> Uh uh who has been captured by the government organization Damage Control in order to exploit his psychic powers. But on her path, Gene causes bodily and emotional harm to both Peter and numerous innocent bystanders by inhabiting their bodies and forcing them to do her bidding. Summers and McKenna say it was important to make her feel like a real threat, though they say they don't believe she went as far as causing any deaths. And in brackets it says one man does appear to be hit by a bus at one point. A car, right? And the internet is debating whether he died. Quote, I think technically she's not responsible for any deaths, but you come away with the impression certainly that she's caused a lot of destruction and mayhem, says Summers. Quote, even if you're going to have a villain who really is redeemed at the end or goes through a transformation, you have to start them off in a place where they feel formidable. So they're basically saying she didn't kill anybody and she was redeemed >> because attempted murder is okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. Like I I So even putting to one side the fact that the dude obviously died when he got hit by that car and putting to one side that there were or absolutely people who died in various other parts of the story like when the bubble expanded and cars crashed >> into each other and like through buildings and stuff or when she was driving the tank and just firing the bullets. Even putting to one side the fact that like people definitely died. The idea that if you intend to kill someone and they survive, it's like you didn't do anything at all is so profoundly stupid. >> You're just a bad murderer. >> Even if we say he didn't die, and even if we say it's not attempted murder cuz she didn't want to kill him, he is still traumatized for life. Not only because he got hit by a car, but because he got mind raped. >> I don't even think you can be nice and say she didn't want even like grant the assumption she didn't want to kill him. If you hypothetically were in somebody else's mind and you thought, "Oh, I know. I'm going to have this poor poor old man walk in front of a speeding vehicle, are you likely to be doing that to kill them or are you likely to be doing that because you think there's no way he's going to die?" >> She's trying to scratch an itchy head with a car. Okay. >> Well, and also just there was there was no reason for it. There was no reason for it. Also, guys, why why is she smirking when she when she throws uh MJ off of the roof? Why the evil smirk? Why? Also, do they want to get to that about what what uh what what she did to both Peter and MJ in that scene? >> Why do any of that? It doesn't help her because they they frame her as like, oh, she's subsequently revealed to be um a sympathetic villain because she's searching for her missing sister. Well, A, her sister is only missing, not presumed dead. And B, that doesn't help her. Throwing MJ off a random building gets her no closer to finding her sister. >> I do enjoy, too. Like, well, she's still going to react to the fact that they've like horrifically kidnapped. It's like the context is you guys were mind raping people and then the government took you. >> Yep. >> So, I mean, that doesn't give you the right to kill people. >> Be free to steal people's bodily autonomy. >> Bizarre. >> That's what you're doing. We've maintained for a while that it would make some sense if all we saw her do this to were DODC employees, but that would still be kind of wonky and awkward. But no, innocent people. >> You you made you really made her go out of her way and uh and you don't have a case of oh well mind flames like people try to argue with Wanda. I don't think you can argue very effectively, but at least you can point to that. In this case, not only is she very aware of what she's doing, she's kind of uniquely aware of how much harm she's doing to any given person that >> uh she decides to mind control because in doing so, she just finds out everything about them, which means that she finds out everything about all of these, you know, various normal people, including and then, you know, finds out about the Hulk, who is the dude who personally saved everybody who got snapped away and still decided to be sinister. in mind controlling him to try and kill Spider-Man and in all the other circumstances killing or potentially injuring all sorts of innocent people. Like you want her to be insanely cruel her like like she she's just so cruel. >> The writers really wanted to play on hard mode for some weird reason. Like how evil can we possibly make her while still trying to make this about redemption and that she's a good person deep down and that she's a victim. Trying to make her as evil as possible. Also, hi John. How you doing? >> Yo, >> what's up guys? Happy 400. Well done. >> Oh, thank you. >> Congratulations. >> Good to see you. >> And uh >> yeah, I wasn't a fan of Brand New Day either. So, >> well, uh good time to jump in, I guess. >> Yeah, I would say we're also not quite fans. We're going to be probably talking a bit about that. Um I've left their watch together link for those who are not in yet. We got four, so we're missing three. There's a new link. Uh you're in the old one. >> Is there is there any sort of preamble that you would want for uh for for this this first this first >> technically that's like the >> the opening frame, >> you know. So, to to quote Grace, so it's we're at the point where I'd say >> that uh Spider-Man is it was pretty much golden from the get-go, even from trailers, that like it was going to get Praise to Helen back, which um I don't even necessarily think is too shocking in any way, shape, or form. It's just like, yeah, it's not only is it Spider-Man, nor is it like every single one seems to have this cycle anyway. And then [ __ ] most films seem to have this cycle. So, no shocker happens to Spider-Man. only the creators of this one really screwed the people over because of the Gan Gray stuff. Makes it really hard to praise this movie. Um because you have two choices. One, accept it and therefore you have to agree that like the whole villain is [ __ ] It [ __ ] the spine of the story and it screws up Punisher and Spider-Man and like morally it's all horrific and you're like yeah it's a lot of damage but I still think it's good. Like you have to kind of pull that which you know whatever that's a different conversation. The person I'm more concerned with is the one that says, "Uh, no, no, actually, it's great. Gan Gray works fantastically. She was justified for most of her actions in the movie, and for those that she wasn't in a, you know, thin, maybe weak way, uh, she actually redeemed herself on, so it's actually fine." And, you know, a lot of crazy shit's happened because of this. People's brains have absolutely melted. And I stand by the statement that these very people will eventually go, "Yeah, no, she was insane. That was a terribly written villain." and they will not remember or not care to remember what they said in the first few days when they defended it. And it really should let you know that anyone can make an argument for [ __ ] anything and they will. And it makes you wonder if they'd released a brand new day and just kept cranking the [ __ ] writing further and further cuz you would have said to us it's like, "Oh, imagine it was even worse." We'd be sitting like, "Dude, it was [ __ ] terrible. It took us a while to go through everything in that movie. Like, I don't know what the hell they were smoking when they wrote a lot of this shit." But countless videos have come out praising the hell out of it. We of course uh did ours and I I can't how long how long would you say in ratio would would it have been the uh the criticism to praise of that movie in terms of sections? >> It's it's a tough ratio honestly. >> What praise was there? I can't even remember. >> Um performance from Tom Holland. >> Oh the Punisher shooting Jean Gray. That was like the only praise. >> Oh yeah. immediately gets undone >> immediately becomes an uber kakoy. Yeah. >> Yes. So, you know, and then but other people would have you think that there's nothing but praise in this movie. Now, there is someone who I will admit I was somewhat anticipating with some excitement the uh the old uh the old Spider-Man video from. And you guys, we did foreshadow this already. It's someone who hates it when Spider-Man has lots of high-tech. Someone who hates it when Spider-Man is rich. Someone who hates it when Spider-Man has loads of social connections, thus giving him some comfort. A person who really doesn't like it when when Spider-Man has like a peace socially or psychologically. Someone who would never appreciate a hero running into stuff like um a security state, right? Having a position that you can spy on everyone and you choose to do so to benefit yourself. um someone who makes horrible decisions regarding the the ethics of the villains and and [ __ ] up in many ways with all these >> somebody who is uh kind of a slave to other characters that aren't Spider-Man characters becoming a part of the story and maybe taking over the story >> and uh causing damage. And so this person, this theoretical person, I was like, man, this is their this is their time because this this film has done all of the things and there's no excuse in any way for context this time. It's all garbage. >> It's kind of a case where it doesn't really matter that all, you know, all over like Twitter and stuff. People are thrilled about the movie. It's it's somebody who's kind of obliged to say that they hate this movie based on all of the things that they've said in [clears throat] the past regarding Spider-Man. Everything we know about this person's standards meant that they were gonna make a video saying they hated Spider-Man. Brand new deck. >> This is It's that uh lowbottom guy, right? >> Yes. Low bottom. >> Um so we're covering Markiplier today. It's true. But um what's funny is this won't be the first time where we're like, "Oh, we're going to do a high top video where we we are actually going to agree with him." And yet it would probably be a bad video. What I mean is that we did his Deadpool Wolverine one where he did not like that movie at all >> and it was tough to agree with that video despite us hating that movie as well. It was it was a [ __ ] nightmare. But >> um the thing is there's a twist happening here in the sense of like so he's going to make a a video ripping apart Brand New Day and we're going to check it out. He's like, "Yeah, of course." >> Or is he? >> No. >> What? >> High top pisses me off specifically. Well, I know he pisses everyone. makes it to do that. His videos are meant to do that design. >> I think he annoys me the most of any of the EAP rogues gallery. So, I'll enjoy this. >> Well, choice. >> An EAP rogue. Oh, boy. I don't know this guy. I'm holding on to my seat right now. >> Oh, best of luck. >> You will in like a minute. >> You He's a well-known fella for I don't know when we first covered High Top, but it was a while like the same thing like 10 times when for the Deadpool and Wolverine video. Well, >> it's awful. >> Let's do it, everybody. Let's jump in. >> Guys, it's [ __ ] 3:00 a.m. in the morning. Supposed to see Brand new dance hours, and I just keep >> He's in square aspect ratio. >> He's doing cinema. >> Yeah, cuz square aspect ratio means you're like cool and sort of avant god. >> Looks like he he changed the uh the like saturation as well and maybe some other stuff. >> Yeah, avant god cinema. Just >> film on your phone, bro. It's okay. Is >> that high tops? Is he doing a Blair Witch bit? high quality. >> I don't know. I think someone's in my apartment. >> Oh my god. I hate >> Oh, I thought there was somebody in the [ __ ] >> I don't make it. >> Tell Tom Holland I'm sorry. >> Oh, he wants us to read really quickly. >> Is that an upto-date meme? >> This is like Chris Stuckman where he's a wannabe filmmaker stuck on YouTube so he just does this. This is Chris Suckman. >> This is really spooky. >> Is this better than Shelby Oaks? >> Are they going to Is there going to be a jump scare? That would be so funny. [laughter] >> He tried. >> Wow. John Watts. >> You should have kept it. >> That is That is the criminal John Watts responsible for the home trilogy. That's why. >> Yeah. >> Why this is happening? There were a there were a whole bunch of people that were going to his like Instagram telling him that he sucked and I saw people defending that like behavior. >> Yeah, >> I saw that. I saw people saying, "Well, he did make like a [ __ ] Spider-Man movie, so it's kind of okay to do that." >> That's um that's >> which one that he made is worse than than this one. And it's funny, especially given like almost every single emotional beat and emotional payoff that Tom Holland has in this film is paying off something set up in the movies. This movie does virtually nothing of its own. >> The movie flashes back to >> many times. Yes. >> It's opening credit sequence is it's like it's the Marvel logo, but it's all scenes of the earlier John Watt Spider-Man movies. Every single thing. You didn't give a Spider-Man fan nightmares by just telling them that Homecoming is the best Spider-Man movie. [clears throat] >> And the payoffs are like redoing No Way Home. I haven't seen fourth Spider-Man, but I watched the EFAP, so I probably know enough. But they they're like redoing the No Way Home payoffs, but bad. >> Yeah. Well, they they undo what the the sort of like end point of them are, unravel, and then recreate like a different ending. >> And people are like, "Oh, finally we get real Spider-Man." And then they undo that. And then people praise that decision when they said before they were happy that we're finally getting real Spider-Man. And they >> It's not just real Spider-Man. It's like finally he's not like Iron Boy anymore. Now this is like growing up Spider-Man. Iron Boy made like the most mature decision any Spider-Man in this quadrilleg has made in giving up his friends and loved ones to keep them safe. And this supposedly mature adult Spider-Man is probably the most childish out of the three of the four. >> And he's got the most safety nets in place ever. >> Oh no, but the the loft had asbestos in it. >> Oh dear. >> Hey, you ready? >> How you doing? >> Save me, MJ. >> Please. >> I hope you're doing well. This movie should >> What do you think of that? What? Hi Tom, what do you think of that shot of him swinging around New York in the rain? Do you agree that it looks horrible? >> Or do we have to wait until the film is out on digital before everybody realizes that shot looks like [ __ ] Just like a lot of shots in this movie. >> I enjoy the first line is this movie should not work. Yeah, that's that's a great that's a great uh but Whoa. Yeah, but I mean there's clearly a butt coming up. >> Oh dear. Let's do it. Yeah. >> For a brand new >> we stop right now then. No. [laughter] >> It's a great video until he uh keeps going. >> You think they're going to edit the CGI on Disney Plus like they did with Thor 4? >> Oh, >> why would they? They don't need to. Everybody said >> no controversy. Yeah, >> true. >> Yeah. >> Man movie where the main villain is also a fan favorite X-Men character being set up for future movies. On paper, Brand New Day shares the exact >> I don't even It's funny. I I don't like that she's in this movie as she is, but like I don't even agree that this is setting up. >> Not really. >> The idea that that's all it's doing. I mean, she is the villain of this movie. >> Yeah. Like, pretend for a second X-Men isn't a thing and she is just the character she is. You wouldn't be saying like, "Oh, that set up something else." You'd be saying, "That was the villain. That was that was her character. She fulfilled." >> Yeah. It's it's a villain. An evil psycho. >> Yes. >> Same problems that MCU Spider-Man has always been plagued with. Oh wow. Seems that he's noted the issues. >> What the >> a studio contract that seemingly mandates that Peter will always need a supporting cast of Avengers and fight for independence. >> He says that because the creators of this movie or I think it was Tom Holland went out and said that Gan Gray being in this movie was not mandated. They wanted her to be in here. >> So it was not a mandate. They chose to have it that way creatively. >> No. No. And it's also weird to say like that Spider-Man's having to fight Otto Octavius for screen time in No Way Home. >> He has to fight one of the main characters of the film, >> but he also doesn't even have that much screen time. Otto, >> no. No, no. I mean, the idea the idea that like Spider-Man surrenders like a substantial amount of time in this film, it's just not true. >> Time in his own story. On paper, Brand New Day is the eighth movie featuring this Peter Parker where he's still learning the lessons it took the other Spider-Man 30 minutes to learn. >> Is that better or worse? Cuz I feel like >> that's true. >> No. >> Yeah. True. True or not, how quickly you learned a lesson is just like that's in quality. >> Did he forget the They love me scene from Isn't that Spider-Man 3? >> Yeah, it was. >> Does he remember in every one of the movies he doesn't learn the same lesson over and over again? They they often roll Spider-Man into a position where he learns like a different angle of the same broad lesson which to me is fine you know like >> life man. >> Yeah. >> Remy Spider-Man has to learn to be humbled like not in the first movie that's in a subsequent movie. He's acting like his arc is complete after dies. I wonder if the reason why he said 30 minutes is because uh Feige had gone in like sort of press stuff for uh for this movie saying that the you know Homecoming uh Far From Home, No Way Home was like the first act of uh of Spider-Man 1. Um, and so it's like just sort of piggyback because that seems to be a thing that people almost want to fight to make sure that that is not the legacy of the home trilogy is that that's actually what they would that's what those films were and that's what they were always meant to be right from the start. Not retroactively. That's what those films are about. >> That's the thing. It kind of locks you in. You got to actually be specific then, isn't it? It's like, so what changes in the course of these three films of uh this guy? It's like, well, he clearly gets less naive, stronger, more assertive, older. And you're like, "Okay, but I'm talking about like arcs and lessons." It's like, "Well, all of it is great power comes great responsibility, but like there's got to be variations on that and then specific challenges and what you're supposed to do in each scenario." >> That's useful. If these stories are meant to be useful to regular people, which certainly you would have to say that's what superhero stories are meant to do. >> How is it a bad thing to tackle the same kind of lesson in multiple different ways? If when we meet him in Civil War, he's already implied to get with great power comes great responsibility. As in, you are strong, stronger than many, you should probably use that to help people because if you don't, then you may as well have let that thing happen to them. You know, it's like your responsibility to do something with the power that you have. And then homecoming hits, the uh you know, the motivation to use it and what what your like rewards are, what your status is. Then of course uh involving yourself in situations that you're not actually you don't have the capacity to solve them. You have the capacity to make it much worse. Then Far from Home is obviously the weight of like how do you responsibly run yourself as the replacement of the heroes of Earth that have all just died being Vision Black Widow and Iron Man and Cap technically, right? So is Spider-Man now the face of the heroes of Earth? And what is he supposed to do about that? cuz he's convinced, and you could say this is Residue from uh Homecoming as well, that he's not suited, that he'll make things worse, but he still does it every time it comes up and then by the end it's like you can be your own hero. You don't need to measure yourself against the greatest heroes of this planet sort of thing. And then No Way Home is you make a decision that is right in principle and the consequences unforeseen are that it hurts the ones you love the most. Does that then make that decision, you know, negative in retrospect and should you never do it again? And that's what May's like last lesson to him is is that just cuz something bad happened as a result of a good principled position, it wouldn't change the principle in play. And all of that, I think, is tied to the responsibility and the power. So the idea is like, yeah, it took you [ __ ] three movies to learn one thing. It's like, I mean, it's a little bit more complicated. Lots of different things happening, lots of stories. Obviously, execution is complicated and there's lots of little problems here and there, some bigger problems. Um, taking you to he is Spider-Man now, and you can do whatever you want. He's adult mode. Mhm. I mean, it would be really crazy if you decided to move away from what was present in the ending of the film, which is he's all alone in a shitty apartment with nothing but a sewing machine to massive loft, uh, high-tech equipment, AI assistant, Peter Palanteer, like spying on everybody [laughter] around the, you know, in the world. Uh, as well as getting back with his old friends. Um, which means that just by virtue of how limited the screen time is that you can afford to any number of characters in a film that the old characters will be brought back to the exclusion of being able to do stuff with like Gwen Stacy or Felicia Hardy or um Harry Osborne, you know, that's all insane >> or the the entire roster of Spider-Man villains, which would have been interesting to draw from instead of trying to, you know, put the X-Men into it. >> Well, don't worry. They'll put Scorpion in the marketing and then they will jangle him in front of you in the opening for a second and then they'll mind control him. They >> set that up literally a decade ago. >> Yep. >> And they did nothing with it. >> This is what I mean. All of the [ __ ] that they took from the the home trilogy to just squander. It's insane. All of the pieces are laid. The board is set. And I I was I was talking to Frey about this. Like I wonder if John Watts was like, "Okay, so adult mode now." Cuz he was originally obviously going to be doing the fourth one. And then they were like, "Well, he's going to have uh Yolena in the movie." And I could imagine being like, "Also MJ and Ned are coming back." And you like, "Oh." Like, "Also, we're going to be doing this and this." And I could totally imagine him being like, "You know what? I've done my story. You guys can do what it is you're going to do, and this is what they [ __ ] did." Um, again, like it just it just felt like he was right there, man. The meme indeed. He was all right there ready to go and he got reset on so much [ __ ] But remarkably, this is apparently the one that did it right. >> Are you afraid that I'm >> the one that saved it? >> Turned into some kind of criminal. >> What is with like this happy music in the background? >> That's just weird. >> High top thing. >> It's the hightop thing. >> It's it. It's an attempt at style. >> What he he had like the inner cutting with the how you doing? like he's trying to build hype for his own >> that's that's his yeah that's like the that's the >> just start the video >> he wants just start the video >> he wants to he wants to know how you're doing and he hopes you're doing well >> also time okay >> he was going to do Fantastic 4 and I would put good money on his Fantastic 4 would have been better than Matt Shackman's >> probably I mean you know you know all of his films >> that there aren't problems and that in, you know, a couple of them that they're they're more notable, but uh character seems to be the thing that is pretty consistently nailed. Fantastic 4 doesn't really nail that and it has plenty of plot problems and >> doesn't even feel like there are characters in it. It's just one of those movies where you think back on the characters and you're like, "Yeah, I guess there were characters in it, but there like a movie that doesn't even realize kind of like where its best stuff is." It's it's like a it's a film that thinks that Sue is really awesome when she's pretty boring and it's actually Reed that's the one who's kind of going on an arc but it doesn't fully realize that and then you know the thing he's got nothing nothing he gets nothing in that movie >> which is like Avengers already but he looks so funny just standing there awkwardly [laughter] in the [ __ ] trailer >> he's so small it's uh it's very noticeable so many characters tower over him just Wolverine. >> That was probably like easier to shoot in anime if they made him shorter compared to other characters. Should they just change his height because they're lazy? >> Very true. Brand New Day on Paper should be the final. >> Black and white now. Yay. >> By the way, >> don't you love mixtape? [sighs and gasps] >> Yeah. Um >> I love mixape. >> I thought it was a SN cut. as part of the intro. It's gonna be tough to praise the [ __ ] out of this film and he's gonna have to choose one of the two journeys to take the path to take which is that Gan Gray is totally in the right and good to go and redeemed and haha la or kind of just I mean in his case very much could be ignoring and we'll we'll see what we're dealing with as we progress here in the MCU Spider-Man coffin. Rip Bozo he could have been so great if they only let him. You ever feel like people just never meet the real you? >> Maybe it's time you went back to Queens. >> All this to say, I'm as shocked as you are that I genuinely with the utmost sincerity absolutely love >> narrative crippling thing again. >> Yeah, he likes that. >> As well as the fact that when you're saying when you say that you sincerely like it, >> it just makes you wonder why you have to say that. >> True. [laughter] >> You should just say you liked it. >> Liked it. Still, it is interesting. Uh there was there was like a theory of like do you think he he had to like this one because it's not John Watts this time. >> Uh I think I think that it might be as superficial as he had to like it because there was some behind thescenes stuff that showed them doing some wire work. >> Oh, and the wrinkles the costume has wrinkles in it. I think it might be like professional. >> He's a professional film critic. Yeah, they did the comic covers except the comic covers aren't very dynamic at all. They're not as dynamically framed or posed as uh as the actual comic book covers that were made in like an afternoon back in the 1960s >> brand new day. >> To me, it's not just so easily the best Spider-Man. >> How do you feel about the fact that the uh how do you feel about the fact that that mask there was absolutely CG like when he flooked it on? How does it how do you feel about that? >> It wrinkles in other scenes, so [ __ ] you. I just noticed the video's 24 minutes long. >> Yeah, sorry about that. >> Yeah, we'll be here for a little bit. >> Movie to me, it's one of the best MCU movies, period. Jesus Christ. >> Oh, no. Oh, it's like >> Well, I was I was almost going to say instinctively like bottom 10, but what's >> That's probably not even true. On the cuff. >> Off the cuff. >> Off the cuff. What is the top 10 that we can come up with? Because surely the top 10 is at least solid, right? Homecoming. >> Unfortunately, unfortunately, once you're getting to like seven, eight or nine, you're kind of like getting out of the realm of good. You're starting to go to the realm of okay, >> but at least on average, we can get to solid, right? >> It's the worst movie Spider-Man is in. >> Did does someone have did we um we did this I think was it on the last anniversary kind of ranking of things? I don't know if anyone like has a saved screenshot for whatever reason. Oh yeah, I mean Iron Man 1, Avengers, uh Homecoming, >> Homecoming, Guardians of the Galaxy, Guardians 2 is probably on that list. >> Civil War, Infinity War, >> that's five. Civil War, >> Infinity Ward, uh first Captain America movie, maybe. >> Yeah, first Cap. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So that's eight. We very quickly got to eight. Point being that this being not only in the top 10, but one of the best is insane. I I mean the thing is this movie is good. >> I don't even think it's worth. Well, the problem is like it's obvious all the other ones to me. Like like I'm not even really because you know I don't care, right? It's like where does this one actually sit? And it's funny. Rags was like is it bottom 10? It's like dude I think it's probably competitive for bottom five. >> Um it is pretty high the amount of damage that this film does to Spider-Man, how much damage it does to a whole bunch of other characters that get involved like the Punisher. how much damage it does for characters are going to be probably dominant in the future in terms of how much they occupy screen time. How much damage it does to the world building like >> Ebacins has just sent me this is he's got a list at the exact same time. >> So, um but but yeah, so I read the variety ranking first. I'm like, why is Black Panther number two? >> Oh, because we're because they're gay. Um, yeah. Iron Man, Avengers, Civil War, uh, Infinity War, Guardians 1, >> First Avenger. Yep. Spider-Man coming good, right? >> Remember, this is this is averaged out from the audience as well. >> Well, because this was the audience, so this isn't necessarily my top 10. >> This is Yeah, there's no way the soldiers that high. >> Yeah, like it's not Yeah. Um, >> I like Black Panther, but there was a suspicious number of women surrounding the Wakanda and K. >> The point being, I disagree that this is one of the best MCU films. >> Not even I'm sure Chad is shocked that we have that perspective. [laughter] >> Maybe he'll be able to convince us of this. you know, >> even if he thinks it's even if he thinks it's good to say that it rivals like not even that it rivals that it like is right to live among the first Avengers and Civil War and stuff like that is insane. Even if you think this movie is good. >> No, but the problem the problem is you need to like you got to be considering where the meta is. A lot of people don't really want to go to bat for like the first Avengers at this point. Not the first Avenger, the first Avengers movie. You guys 2012. A lot of people don't really want to go to bat for it because the cinematography and the color grading is flat or something or it's got quips in it. It's the reason why everything's gone to [ __ ] Civil War people fight against pretty hard. Uh, I guess Iron Man is pretty secure in terms of having a good reputation, but even then it feels like that's changing because how many people were bringing up Iron Man like Tony Stark in the conversation related to like Gan Gray's morality is what I mean like you should re-evaluate essentially how safe a lot of the uh the estimation is for a lot of these films >> and the brought this one into the bottom 10 list here to see because from what I remember of the conversation of the bottom 10 is that like some of our placements for these movies was because they are kind of bad but in offensive they don't do too much damage to important characters or the world which kind of skews how our list came about but like I it's better than She-Hulk so it's not at the bottom of the list presumably >> it's better than Loki right like technically >> the problem the problem is I don't agree with this list like I I still feel like Iron Hart should be I don't like Iron Hard at all but I think it's crazy that it's below Multiverse of Madness Secretmania. I think it's crazy that it's below Thor, Love, and Thunder, but uh yeah, this is not like Deadpool and Wolverine at 27. Dead Deadpool and Wolverine is bottom five. >> I noticed that >> for sure. This is what I mean. I this I don't agree with the list like [laughter] in a lot of ways. >> The problem is there aren't enough spaces in the bottom of these movies. >> No, >> the bottom five consists of 15 entries. God damn it. >> Very bottom. All I would say is that like I think I think bottom if we're just talking about movies, bottom 10 is like a guarantee with this one. The question whether it starts to get competitive for bottom five. Um and I think that given how many problems it has as well as how few redeeming qualities I think it has. >> There's like a real fight to be had on that one. >> Yeah, it's probably only above the multiverse movies, right? It's the only things it can beat. >> What? The ones that break time and space basically is kind of like Yeah. The ones that are incomprehensible, >> the ones that break time space but also break characters and don't have any redeeming qualities. There that actually does filter. >> This is the redeeming quality of understanding how physics work kind of >> dead Wolverine is better than Iron Hart. So just based on what we're talking about there in terms of the whole multiverse destroying everything timeline sort of thing as well as a capacity to be disrespectful to stories that are actually worthwhile. It's kind of hard for Iron Hart to be competitive with some of these Wolverine might be autumn. Iron Heart's like I don't know what to tell you. In Deadpool and Wolverine, he digs up in cannon in continuity the corpse Logan >> after he dies in uh at the end of Logan. When you watch that film, it is canon whether you like it or not that at some point in the future Deadpool is going to dig up his corpse and use it to fight TVA agents. I don't know how any like >> well you know sucks but like it's high has an advantage kind of damage >> it has the same advantage that like Agatha all along has where it's very compartmentalized and doesn't really bump into anything else for the most part it's shitty it's just shitty on its own kind of >> and Meisto's fun in that that has a redeeming quality >> I think the fact that it has a neat thing about it actually lifts it up a weird amount >> to be clear to be clear on the nature of this conversation. Like especially when I'm talking about it, you have to bear in mind like I don't think that they've made anything in the last like five or six years that rises above a three out of 10. Like I'm not fighting really hard at all for any of these creatively. I think they're all basically worthless like these these films and TV shows. But you got to expand that out when you zoom in. You know, you got to try and find a way to pass through where these will end up sitting. And I I think that the amount of damage that they do to stories beyond themselves, you got to think about and it's like, you know, cuz cuz for instance, like She-Hulk has that fourth wall break, right? It's like, well, that's pretty devastating in terms of like the impact that it has. >> But uh >> also the [ __ ] it did to Daredevil before Born Again happened. >> Yep. >> Yeah, exactly. Um it's just funny. >> Is this or Born Again worse? >> Uh what is born again? I mean, I hate Born Again. Like I'm I'm I >> born again. >> I couldn't even watch these in that even >> I like when he turned into Jake Paul and he hosted a >> when you compare things like this you have to get into the like well what does it ruin the what does it ruin contest and how much do you did you did you value what it ruined >> the rest ignores Daredevil born again which makes it in a weird way better this movie ignores Born Again like the rest of the MCU proceeds [laughter] as though none of the events that happened. Yeah, >> this [clears throat] movie isn't going to be ignored because it's done extremely well. >> It's also much more efficient in its destruction. I think Born Again is got long stretches of boring in this movie. From what I recall, the only character who is not assassinated in their very first scene is Meza, who ironically is supposed to be the villain, but turns out to be one of the better characters in the entire thing. >> And Born Again treats their villain as a villain. >> True. >> Uh, yes. Well, well, except for Vanessa. Um, it has a different opinion on her. It views her as well. Yeah, it kind of feels sorry for her a little. And Daniel as well. He was a bad guy, but like >> changed their mind. >> Can't even backhandedly praise Born again. >> No. No. It's not possible. It's not possible. Such as the the depths of despair that we find ourselves in. >> Warts and all. >> This is the greatest day of my life. This is this is the greatest day of my life. This is the greatest day of my life. >> Destin Daniel Credin and Tom Holland. you care. Yes, I believe you. I believe that you care about uh this director. I believe in cares about all these people when he mentions them. >> I believe that you're really excited specifically for whatever is next, the Naruto movie that he'll be doing. Like you're really excited specifically because he's going to do it. >> His script originally said not John Watts and then he realized that wasn't subtle enough. >> I think uh I think Wonder uh Wonderman was he was involved in that. Hey, hi Tom. What do you think of Wonderman? Tell me something specific about it. Tell me Tell me Wonderman's name. What is his name? I would really like to know if every person I >> wonder that tweets about how much they think Wonderman is good. I want to know what percentage of them even remember his name. >> You cancel it. >> I did all the notes and [ __ ] for that episode. I don't remember his name. >> No, I don't. But I don't care about it. >> It's a tough ass taken the watered down practically mission of the character that I have spoken about way too much and finally allowed him to grow. Oh >> that is not true explicitly regressed >> did that praising the movie in his mind he grows in each of the movies he does like how the execution we can talk about but he does grow in each of the movies he learns a lesson regresses >> he regresses in this movie he goes backwards >> very far backwards resets in the worst way when it should be resets in the best way >> just be the silly kid who is the butt of every joke >> but to be the relatable He he was pretty early on in in his websling, you know, career like, "Oh, yeah, god forbid he makes a mistake." >> Those jokes in this film. >> I don't think I've ever seen a Spider-Man a Spider-Man, certainly not a Remy Spider-Man, have a clumsy fall in any scenes at all. So, >> also, you are meant to laugh when he like falls out of the cocoon and smacks off of You're meant to laugh at that at his expense. You do realize that >> smacks against the window when he's going to the like through the wedding bit. >> Um there's the He's basically I'm just going to ignore he adores Spider-Man 2. He thinks it's the best film that's ever been made and it's [ __ ] iconic. Ow, my back. >> That's what I was thinking of. >> Mhm. >> When even you could even go as far as his dance in Spider-Man 3. I don't >> I don't I'm not sure for sure. >> Yeah, I'm pretty sure you are. >> Yeah. >> And he loves Spider-Man 3. He loves it. He made a video on it. >> Oh, does he? That movie. >> I love it. Just not for the same reason he does. >> No, he he doesn't. Yeah, it's it won't be for the wrong reasons. >> Well, down the only basis for growth is the is him dealing with his mutation and getting stronger powers. Other than that, it feels like it's just about dialing back what happened with No Way Home, even by the end implying that the spell can be broken, which cheapens the whole [ __ ] thing. >> That's physical growth, not, you know. >> Yeah. The movie pretends that those are the same. They're not. Um because in in doing that he makes the most childish decisions he possibly can. It's only after he goes through his physical transformation that he turns to an actual mass murderer and says, "You're not a killer." It's during his physical transformation that he decides to put his best friends and loved ones back in danger undoing the choice he made, the mature adult choice he made at the end of No Way Home. Um the movie just gives you like a is that that spider documentary that's playing while he's using his 3D printer to create a super universal mutant inhibitor and it's like hey this is thematic right the spider's undergoing transformation into something new and beautiful >> to present it as like he's he's mutating he's becoming ragefilled and even stronger like oh boy and it's like so what's what's the conclusion there's like well to sort of just go with it and he gets stronger and then he's okay well That's great. >> That's a big Yeah. All right. Well, >> Brian, the AI for the creator by Jun. >> Yeah. >> Self-sacrificial all too human icon that we love that we see ours. >> Not much self-sacrifice going on. In fact, you could say it's the opposite. He breaks all of his principles in this movie. >> He's kind of trying to get it all back. >> It was a mistake. He shouldn't have done that. >> Thanks for grouping me in >> Thanks for grouping me in your group of people who love Spider-Man without my consent. No wonder you love Jean Gray. >> Well, this is the thing. It's >> here. We can do We can do an ultimate, >> right? He has, you know, he hasn't really said anything about Jean Gray yet. So, we'll have to wait and see if he does. >> Yes. >> He can't avoid it. All these >> I mean, yeah. No. What am I Yeah. What am I saying? If he does, he has to talk about >> cannot avoid it. It is the elephant in the room. It's like from the moment from the moment this >> the video is called Bernie talking about it. >> So, how about that idiot? This must be one reason why people like videos like this is because they always make these wei statements and then I guess people who aren't thinking about the video is like oh yeah I am a part of this and they just accept everything that >> watching a hightop video that's like a substitute for having a family and friends >> a [ __ ] loved it. >> Intro done. But before we dive further into the tangled web, a brand new day. It's a brand new dawn day in the exciting world of >> No, it's a mobile. >> At least at least it's Marvel. >> What do you mean at least Marvel? >> At least it's Marvel. >> I thought it was going to be Rage Shadow Legends. >> That would be better. >> I think Raid in this situation would be better because Raid isn't making money. >> Can you Can you see the character there? Can you see the one between Hulk and >> Oh, true. >> Like that. That is pretty crazy. I love the new Marvel movie. Anyway, this video about how I love the new Marvel movie is sponsored by Marvel. >> Who's Punisher, >> bro? >> Come on, dude. And and then of course when you add on, it's like a mobile game as well. So, you know, [laughter] >> I just saw the stock video of the guy with the phone. I'm like, uh >> oh. Isn't >> I was thinking about in the opposite way, >> dude? Gman lives. Isn't this blatant? [laughter] >> This positive review. >> He's even in the center. >> Yeah, he's right there. >> Strike Force. >> Wow. >> Webs assemble Spider-Man event running until August 27th. Marvel Strike Force. >> Spider-Man squad RPG that allows you to battle with your favorite team of heroes and villains in a fight to save the universe from the most iconic of threats. >> That's not an obvious thing to say. >> You know, it's funny. Oh man. Yeah. all these Marvel movies where Spider-Man is constantly deferring to these other comic book characters, you know, it's constantly trying to set things up. Anyway, look at all of the Marvel characters that you can play as [laughter] in Marvel Strike >> and everyone's like 187,000 power cuz you'll you'll get that points for free. You'll get it for free. You won't have to pay money, guys. >> If there's anything I love, it's number bloat, >> by the way. Yeah, >> he he solo defeats Vulture at the end of Homecoming. Solo defeats Mysterio at the end of Far From Home in like a one-on-one fight against all the drones and the illusions. And then he beats Green Goblin at the end of No Way Home and it's Toby that stops him from executing him. >> Just saying. >> That's right. >> Power up your favorite characters from across the multiverse. The Spider Marvel, my boy Spider Noir. And so >> your boy Spider Noir. Really? >> Oh god. >> I've heard of him. Are you really that excited about him that you can call him your boy? >> Really? >> Your boy is a pretty I mean that's like that's part of the higholade about Spider-Man like in the last month, >> you know, ever since it came out. >> Oh well, yeah, that kind of nobody really talks about it much anymore. >> Nope. >> Unlock the sickest of gear. Take the fight through a plethora of game modes like campaign, arena, and blitz. fight other players around the globe or come together to form your >> what was the animation >> the Spiderwoman animation that looks terrible. So, I uh I went to the reception uh section of the Marvel Strikeforce Wikipedia page, and it says, "Critical reception. Game Informer criticized the expensive content and numerous bugs, concluding that it quote feels designed to frustrate players until they finally cave and spend." >> Oh, well, >> so Marvel, >> don't surprise me. Marvel Strikeforce generated $150 million in sales during its first year of operation 2018 on the iOS and Android platforms. Growth continued modestly to 180 plus million in sales in 2019 and in 2020 with approximately 300 million in revenue. Holy [ __ ] >> So these these mobile games, man, they are these mobile games are designed for one thing and that is to siphon money from your wallet. Why Sony really really wants to make live service work. You wonder why they do that. >> The one hit, man. They get one hit that and boom, you just need one. >> You have one success. It makes up for all the Concords, The Last of Us Onlines or you know, whatever it was going to be, the the one that they canled uh the whatever this new one is. All it makes up for all of that >> and it's funded by 1% of the player base. Nick said that aliens are subhuman. No, mobile gamers are subhuman. They're unworthy of moral consideration. >> Everyone in chat who's a mobile gamer be ashamed. >> It's calm down. All right. It's, you know, >> Yeah, they're good mobile games. They exist. >> Like Rag Angry Birds from like two decades ago. >> No, like Slay the Spire. >> The original Angry Birds, right? That has like no DLC or anything. I think you buy Pegle once for $3 and you just get >> back when like artists made mobile games in like the late 2000 the Yeah, the late 2000s. >> What were we saying that? >> I have memories. >> Go ahead. >> Go ahead, John. >> Okay. Oh, no. Somebody was rags was citing a review I think about um frustrating the player to the point where they feel they have to spend and I feel like that's like literally the design philosophy. Just reminds me of that Terrence and Philip game from from South Park. Like I think I'd rather play that. >> Hey buddy, you've got new buddies. G, [laughter] >> you you need more whatever the [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> And the Canadian Devil, you know, >> I mean, it's just [laughter] And that was like 10 years ago that that episode came out, maybe even more. I have fond memories of sitting in the high school cafeteria before school begins playing Call of Duty Nazi Zombies on my iPod touch and I was thinking like, man, this is [ __ ] cool. Oh, >> no. You know, I I like I like Angry Birds. Well, I liked it. I don't know what it is like now, but >> who knows what the hell it is now. >> Angry Birds 2 is Angry Birds. >> No, but like the games that you guys are mentioning didn't have DLC or it was like $5 to have like the entire [ __ ] game. nowadays like, "Hey, would you like to unlock this really cool thing? You can get it 24 hours earlier if you swipe swipe your credit card and put your life savings in here." >> Well, yeah, but the early the early thing I mean, you know, how many games at this point have the early release for pre-order? Like, it's a lot now, you know, doing >> No, no, no. I mean the gameplay mechanic. It's like you're going to be building. >> No, no. I I know what you mean. I uh I just think that you can extrapolate it to like premium game like it's now part >> I think with the premium game when you're done with like the early release part you get the game but in the gotacha thing it's like the fun part is like getting the thing and that's it like then you have to get the next thing to get more >> I say this is a case of like if it was like the standard has changed cuz I dude I distinctly remember the DSX Mankind Divided like pre-order where it it was like >> it was almost like pre-ord, right? >> Yeah. Like it was almost this sort of collective like crowdfunding thing where like if enough people pre-ordered, there would be more unlocks that everybody would get for the pre-order that would lead up to getting the game 3 days early. >> And I remember that was a big controversy. Whereas now it's just normal. That is like normal for a lot of games that you get early access if you uh if you pre-order. >> I've got a lot of personal failings. Uh, but like I'm really glad that one of them isn't this this cattle mentality for pre-ordering and bonuses and stuff. >> You know, you got to be >> cash on that all the time. I get owned. >> Nick [laughter] is right there. >> How much How much >> How much does your Fortnite account cost? >> Don't even Don't even go. >> You could sell it. Numbers don't go that high. >> If things get rough and you have to Yeah, you could sell your Fortnite account and retire. You live off the interest. put in the bank and just live off the interest. >> I think if you rewind time enough, what we would have been saying right now is IT top. What would Peter think of you doing this? But what would Peter Palanteer think of this? I'm not sure. >> He'd be all in favor given that he puts his beer cans in his movie and blogs Sony [ __ ] flat fold up phone things. Well, I mean I mean the ethical break of letting crazy murder hobos go and spying on everybody in New York. I I think this he would let this fly. I think he'd be like, "Yeah, go for it." >> There's always new ways to battle. Right now, the Webs Assemble Spider-Man event is live, >> dude. The Webs Assemble event is live. Go. >> I keep forgetting this ad is still going. >> Look at the size of his bulge. Holy [ __ ] Do you do you I just I just high do you not feel like this runs a little bit contrary to the sort of a aesthetic that you're trying to cultivate? >> Yeah. The corporate sellout angle is kind of >> new Marvel mobile game with the tie-in events for the movie that I'm currently reviewing. >> Like there was a time I feel like everything has gotten so much [ __ ] worse. There was a time where everyone had enough shame. You couldn't review Spider-Man the movie positively while simultaneously shilling the [ __ ] out of being sponsored by what is iconically Spider-Man on the screen. Like I was paid for this, but also you should trust me that this is a good film. >> And specifically the Spider-Man event in the game is promoting. >> I'm your down to earth friendly YouTube man who's authentic and just trying to trying to get by. That's all I'm doing. >> [ __ ] how you doing? Have you logged in to Marvel Strikeforce today? >> I hope so. >> Yeah, it doesn't really clash well with his um I'm a small bean just trying to make it in the big world. >> Make sure to buy your $9.99 pack of 1500 Marvel bucks to upgrade your characters and reset those timers. >> John Watts didn't have to give us a big old Spidey package where we we got loads of dollars. >> A big old Spidey package. Holy [ __ ] Look at that. I shouldn't have said it. >> Which means a brand new game mode and exclusive rewards. >> Oh, exclusive rewards. >> I don't want to miss out on a brand new game mode. >> Imagine you did. Imagine you didn't pick it up right now and get those exclusive rewards. Next week, you'd be like, "Oh, great. I don't have the exclusive rewards now." Yeah, I'd be making fun of you. I know that. >> I love Gatling gunning down Han. >> What? [laughter] Wait, what? >> Sending the Spider-Man tower, hitting each and every enemy with the perfect pose before smacking them with the Spidey. Dude, the to to deliver those lines with this hint of enthusiasm is just like, God, I hope you have trouble sleeping sometimes. >> You You're performing those moves. You're You are the one firing the gatling gun at the hand ninjas on the rooftop. That's you. Good job, man. You're saving the city. That's you doing those things. And if you spend a little bit more money, you can do it even better. >> You just want Disney to pat him on the head and say goodbye. >> Marvel Rivals is free and probably a better game than this. You could just play that. >> One, two, punch. But be warned, dude. This game is very addicting. I'm Jones informed. >> Oh, even [laughter] >> it's addictive and expensive. Great. >> He's lamp shading the ad. >> Well, just the acknowledging kind of the point of the, you know, [gasps] of this uh this kind of >> You have time to waste. >> I'm mainlining this game. It's destroyed my life. I lost my wife, my kids. [laughter] Someone someone just asked me, have we talked about the Spider-Man ad that played in people's BMWs? What is this Spider-Man ad? BMW. >> What? What? What are What's that got to do with what Tron update? >> A Tron update? >> BMW is facing backlash after displaying Spider-Man brand new day promotions on dashboard screens and eligible cars. The automaker says it's part of a global partnership with Sony Pictures. It just plays ads in your BMW. >> Oh, they don't play ads in the Tesla. What they did is they made it so when you like lock your car, it goes like >> we all have AI implants and people and we just get like ads that pop up in our eyes like every few minutes. >> You know, you know what I I I like buttons in cars. I like buttons. They're nice. >> I have none of that. I want the minimum the the minimum necessary like electronicness. I want like electronic like I like I click a button and the window goes up and down and I like a little number that tells me what the time is. >> It's funny talking about clicking the you can go further back. You can go back to just winding it up and down. Like >> you could, but I'm willing to I'm willing to accept an electric motor that raises and lowers the shield. >> No, I mean I am too. It's just that you know it can go a little >> It's the thing the rolling up. First of all, people are going to ask why do they say roll up the windows? Eventually, people won't know where that comes from, [laughter] >> but but also like I I it would it's not a like a dealbreak for me. If I found the perfect car and it was like a roll up window, I'm taking the car. I don't mind. I do not mind rolling up and down the windows. >> I want an entirely voice controlled car. I don't even want a steering wheel. I'll say, "Hey, car, please turn left here. Car, please break." cuz there's an accident up ahead. >> Lex Luthther car. That's the Lex Luthther car. [laughter] >> A1 A1. >> Turn right. >> The AI is like there's you know a civilian in front of us and you're like car 100 miles per hour. Now >> I wonder how drives the car for you. Yeah, we've [laughter] been talking negative things about Spider-Man, but I do wonder how the Superman fans will score away Spider-Man making uh probably by the time it's done, four times as much money >> as uh as Superman, the apparent massive success. >> Oh, they'll they'll cope. It'll be something like, oh no, Superman made exactly as much money as it needed to because it was the first film in a new cinematic universe. yourself into I will say I do appreciate at least that because you make it definitive that if it makes less than that >> you're [ __ ] Like it's you know if it's less then you're >> I still remember >> I still remember last July you made any even slightly negative comments on it on Twitter and everyone would just reply with that gif of the monkeys on the computers. >> The irony being that's exactly what you were >> that's Yeah, but you you were doing it for free. Those monkeys didn't want to. They were mind controlled. [laughter] >> They were mind controlled. Yeah, it's not their fault. >> I actually enjoyed the fact that when I started making my video on that, they were saying, "Oh, it's going to make a billion dollars." And by the time I finished my video on that, they were saying, "Oh, this might make $600 million, maybe." [laughter] Hopefully, >> I somehow got to level 40 in just a few days and I'm desperate to unlock all the characters. Holy [ __ ] Best part. If you use promo code spider, >> I get I get 50 Hulks and I get 50 Spider-Man's. >> Oh, 2,000 energy orbs and 4,000 ultra >> thousand purple orbs. >> And if there's anything Wait a second. Gold is gold is always more rare than purple. >> So, so far a third of this video has been the ad. It goes, >> but you know, we haven't started yet. >> Green, blue. >> Don't worry, it won't last forever. Well, you said gold is always more rare than purple. Maybe that's why you get 2,00 Yeah. Everyone knows. Yeah. In the rarity hierarchy, gold always comes after purple. >> That's why you get less. They're worth more. >> I thought purple I thought purple was like the ultra behind after. >> It depends on the game. >> That's either it's either red or gold. Red or gold, >> but rags you get less of them. Maybe they are worth more. >> I I don't think >> maybe it's just an insane deal. >> I'm pretty sure it varies depending on the game. I feel like there is a game where purple is the best. I I don't know what it is, but I know >> that game's wrong. That sounds familiar. >> Like gold is epic and then the purple is legendary or vice versa. >> It goes gray. Sometimes there's gray, which is like junk, and then you have white, then green, then blue. Sometimes green and blue are reversed, but typically it's green then blue, then you have purple, then after that it's typically um orange. Fortnite now >> then like golder red golder red at the top is also kind of like a you know bounce back and forth >> unlock Spider-Man himself Hulk [music] and more rewards to build a stronger squad from day one. You >> want a weak squad like a chump promo code >> what >> costume? What better way to get started? Skip the grind and start with the ultimate duo. Ride that brand new day hype. >> Ew eh >> and smash through your enemies with joy. Click the link in the description or scan the QR code because now is the perfect time to start playing. >> Well, now is the perfect time, fellas. >> How does he How does he like move the tongue so well with that [ __ ] in his mouth? Like, he's got to be so annoying. [laughter] >> It is crazy that you would be advertising like a Marvel game while doing a review for a Marvel movie. >> Chris Stuckman do that with Ghostbusters? >> There's never that. >> It's just pretty remarkable though. But yeah, skip the grind is great. It's just a thing to say. It's like skip the grind. >> Why would I want to skip >> Why is there a grind to skip? >> How why would I play a game where I have to pay to skip the grind when I could just play a game that doesn't have a grind? >> I can just go buy like gunpoint for like a dollar or whatever. Like why the [ __ ] >> I know, dude. It's It's sad, too, because I remember the days. I assume several people here do as well, but just messing around on computer and just going to flash games and you play these creative things made by people who just want to entertain and express and there used to be some really [ __ ] cool things and and >> any of them smash the [ __ ] quality of the mechanics in this [ __ ] that's designed to make you addicted. >> Same thing with like >> it's designed to make you addicted. Yeah. >> Same thing with the classic mobile games of old. all the like cool like simple not in a reductive way but just that not super complex but like super cool because it's just some one guy >> made fun the unfortunate thing is that it was better when you used to have to pay a buck or two >> it was better back you pay a buck or two and then you get the game like it's gotten worse now that everybody's realized that doing it for free >> is the uh is the is the better way open the doors to more people and then build a game that relies on a small portion of people that are going to be paying the most amount of money. >> Right. >> Where do I begin? Let's start with Tom. Despite the internet blame him for any of the home trilogies, that would be [ __ ] to blame him. He's an actor. >> Why did you blame him when Yeah, he wasn't though. It is funny because he's probably to blame in part for some of the creative decisions in this movie. >> Well, now that we know he got leverage and he's in interviews saying that it was his like influence that was able to control some of the writing where he hadn't ever before, you cannot blame him for the home trilogy. You can blame him for this one. You're right. >> Yeah. Which is really awkward. >> He's s in this movie. >> Yep. >> Back to the start of my channel. You'll see me rave about how good he was. How emotional he made me when I first saw him walk into his apartment. >> He's always been good. He's a great actor. Just >> crying when he saw Tom Holland's face. What are you talking about? >> Well, >> I cry when I see Zaya's face. >> A [laughter] with a dumpster dive DVD player and webbed Tony Stark's hand to his crammed bedroom door. >> Didn't miss my train. and his perfectly good DVD player was just sitting there and algebra test nailed it. >> Tom has always seemed like a king and always clearly cared and I [ __ ] love the fact that he gets to be unleashed here. >> Um, >> all right. >> That's one way to descri like the unleashed Tom Holland, >> I guess. So, yeah. >> Yeah, that's that's why it works. >> Punish punished Tom. >> I don't know. It just feels like everyone forgot the whole like he wanted to have vengeful rage and nearly killed Green Goblin over it, but this is somehow better. The >> I have black eyes and super strength and I'm rageful in a in a like in a way that isn't consistent at all and doesn't even have a motive. It's just like a biological process. You're like, "Okay, do process over which he has no control, but it's also it's kind of the own everything else he does in this film is kind of just a pale imitation of what he's already done." Mhm. >> So, if you take the um in Homecoming, the scene where he's trapped under the rocks and then you compare it to the end of No Way Home where he has to be stopped from killing Green Goblin and then that huge character journey. two very like emotionally high moments implying that huge character journey from like this poor kid who's basically trying to learn on the job and doing his best and only just you know realizing what it takes to do that to the end where he's become so powerful that he can be what should be in another universe his greatest enemy and has to be stopped from doing that because he has to remember the responsibility and Tom Holland all the way through all of that does a pretty damn good performance and I was watching this film looking for anything like it and all you get is a vaguely paleish imitation of scenes I remember him doing a better job in in better written movies. >> He gets to play Peter so drastically different here than he has in the past. Not since >> he cried in the rain. >> Well, I will say that there's that weird portion of the performance that's him stalking, >> you know, the pining and the stalking and stuff. And again, I'm not knocking his performance cuz he does what's what's written, but as in like what's required, but like it's not >> I I I don't really enjoy the whole like I I'm going to I'm going to fall back on my decisions because I can't take it anymore. I'm too sad. I must I must >> I hate being alive. I'm [clears throat] in tremendous pain. Help me. Help me. Help me. >> Well, I mean, everyone praise the when he falls through the air is like, "Oh, it's like a suicide attempt. That's how low he's gotten." I'm sitting, for [ __ ] sake, man. I thought you'd reached an equilibrium. >> Thunderbolts again. Civil War. Have I felt the New Yorker element >> moving on? It's a regression. >> Yeah. Yeah. 100%. >> Yeah. This went in the complete opposite like way that I really was interested in seeing it go. It just we just went back instead of a fresh reset. >> Yeah. And it's going to get worse. Zenai is going to become a full partner for him again by the time you've gotten to the end of the second movie. More than likely. >> All right. Sorry. My bad. >> I always knew that he could and easily should be able to nail the character. And here he gives an alltime Peter Parker performance. Whether it's the queen's accent he gives >> all time. Does that mean like of all the Spider-Man movies or just him? It must be like the dawn of the age like since Jesus >> w [laughter] better than uh better than uh better than Toby Maguire >> since your friendly your friendly Nazarian Spider-Man >> since Jesus of Neighborhood portrayed Spider-Man in the >> He [laughter] said he gave an alltime Spider-Man performance. So he must be like comparing this to the Remy films. >> Yeah. >> Must we forgive Green Goblin six times? Nay. You must forgive Green Goblin 66 times. >> Oh, >> line reads, >> "Hey, you guys are the professionals. I'm just a volunteer." >> I mean, dude, we finally got this guy back. >> Hey, buddy. I THINK YOU LOST THIS >> FOR THE first time in >> Wait, what? >> Where did that go? >> Talking about like Bucky wasn't in this >> confusing visual. It's Yeah, I think Spider-Man is in jokey Spider-Man. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, he's >> referring to the fact in Homecoming. So, I don't know what you're talking about, my man. >> That Spider-Man is willing to throw back the shield at him. I think that's what he >> Didn't he say he wanted Spider-Man to be more serious? Why is getting Joky Spider-Man back the thing? >> Yeah, that was old him. >> I don't know what that means. I don't know. >> I think it's more about the aggression of throwing the shield back and possibly like like gravely injuring him, like taking out [laughter] >> Well, okay. If only he did that to Gan Gray. That would have been nice. >> Years I laughed at his lame quips because they were delivered with a >> Oh, lame. Boring. Boring. The the actual correct take is Spider-Man is supposed to be genuinely funny. Not >> Well, because he's smart jokes suck. >> Well, it's Yeah, but it's easier. >> The problem is That's right. It's harder to write a actually genuinely witty and funny character. It's easier to write it so that you laugh at how his jokes suck. when the wit like as a tactical thing, the wit confuses who he's fighting. It can give him an advantage. >> Just his personality shining through like constantly >> like conviction, the confidence that never comes across as arrogant. >> Let's end this on a high note, huh? >> Oh, confidence. That's what he's phrasing then. Okay, >> man. Just Sorry, I see the scene is like, "Yeah, get [ __ ] Scorpion fans." Piano just drops on him and he's out for the whole movie. >> Let's end this on a high note. Good job, Scorpion fans. Yeah, >> not just that. It's the contrast between Peter's somber stillness and Spider-Man's slick movement or the underlying element of pure yearning that you can see. >> Okay, he's losing health big time, Mr. High Talk. [laughter] >> The underlying element of pure. >> Can you hear the behind everything? He make he he narrates every video like he's in the garage with a running engine and it's just getting weaker and weaker and weaker. >> Oh god. >> He's bleeding out. That's the point. He's just like, I've got to give you this message before I go. It's so important. [laughter] >> I'm trying to figure out >> tell my story. >> I'm trying to figure out like his angle of like what he wants Spider-Man to be. And it seems like >> his angle is obtuse. It seems like he's saying that he wants Peter to be miserable and Spider-Man to be like Peppy and then those to be the contrast. >> Cuz I know that he's going to change his position halfway through the video because there's no way he's going to be consistent >> through the white lenses that he has in his eyes every time he see >> Stop. Stop. >> All right, we need we need to just hear this in full. This sounds like it's going to be really funny. >> No. do. Oh, >> I keep zoning out every time he says words. >> There's so much breath nonsense >> stillness in Spider-Man movement or the underlying element of pure yearning that you can see even through the white lenses that he has in his eyes every time he sees his lost friend, his lost love. >> Boo. [laughter] He made the mature adult decision to protect them from knowing him. the ultimate sacrifice. >> Watch the movie. Yes, I hate that he completely reset everything that would have made this. >> He didn't even reset it because he was absolutely forced to and had moved on. He did it because he kept [ __ ] hanging around and stalking them. So lame. >> Every time he makes the choice to withhold, to self-sacrifice, to bury. >> He didn't though. He didn't self sacrifice. >> He didn't. He stalked her at >> the end of the movie. He literally just goes, "Hey, Ned." So dad's like, "Hey, Peter." [laughter] >> Sacrifice when he gets shot. >> Oh, whatever. [ __ ] [laughter] >> What do you mean whatever? For it. >> No. Magic saved him in that one. >> To hide his very big bleeding. How do you save somebody from bleeding out by continuing to have them breathe? That doesn't do [ __ ] for no blood. >> Rags knows that big thing he's hiding. We saw it in the mobile ad. >> Yeah, >> that's true. Spider-Man's gigantic package >> heart. It's pitch perfect, man. I knew I was in for a great >> It's perfect. >> He's saying it's perfect and we're like a fifth of the way through the video and a third of it was an ad. >> Time when I was tearing up five minutes into the movie during the montage. >> Oh, what? During the >> during the skipped over the [ __ ] movie that was promised [laughter] from that movie. >> That's That is funny that Yes. that you cried as a Spider-Man fan over the skipping of the Spider-Man story of him dealing with Spider-Man villains. >> Oh, I thought he meant like the trailers. [laughter] >> You got to saw how they got to chill. Five minutes in and you're already crying before the story's like begun. Really? >> You go to the worst theater on planet Earth. One guy starts [ __ ] audibly sighing and the other guy's in [ __ ] [laughter] tears. putting them two together [crying] [laughter] sitting there trying to watch the movie, >> dude. The [ __ ] pretentious sigh man turns to the crying one. Like, it's not that bad. [laughter] Come on. When Peter relegates himself to a dusty attic apartment while you don't look that that is a fancy loft that would probably go for like six grand a month. That might even beat me up. >> He's got a big ass. >> Don't Don't pretend like that's some shitty place. >> He cleans it up. He fills it with tech. He's got the hyper AI. He's got the 3D printer. Why are we [ __ ] pretending? [laughter] It's amazing what this film can get away with. It's crazy. If you want to deal with the reality is like, you know, what is an affordable apartment in Manhattan? It's like, well, it's basically the size of the closet that Bender lives in in Futurama. That's what >> No, but that's just not it's not a problem anymore. For some reason, that's been thrown out as a criticism now because it's in the movie. Therefore, I have to like it. >> Yeah. It's not Sam Ramy Spider-Man anymore. Spider-Man's been priced out of [ __ ] New York. He's got to move [laughter] to South Carolina with everybody else. That would have been pretty funny that Spider-Man has to he's moved all the way out of state. He has to like get the >> enjoy that. Right. >> On the note of um there are no places he's going to be able to like do the usual Sam Ramy thing or there's no job he can get that relates to photography anymore cuz it's like a dead [ __ ] professional all these [ __ ] defenses like they are the writers. They can just have this [ __ ] happen. There's actually nothing stopping them. >> Time period. Why are we pretending like we are limited by the absolute nature of reality in a [ __ ] crazy sci-fi world? You can do whatever you want. >> You can have a Spider-Man. >> He can't be poor. He can't be poor anymore. It's impossible. It's like it was very possible. He's like, "How could you have a job? What do you mean? Why are you saying these things? >> You can't be a photographer. Everyone has phones now. >> There's AI. There's no need for real photographs anymore. They've been replaced." >> [ __ ] crazy. And you could make the story about that [ __ ] like it's a struggling [ __ ] newspaper because nobody uses it anymore. >> Skill, but it's Yeah, it's part of his Yeah. his struggle >> uh in season one of Daredevil. >> It's so insane to me. Like no matter what happened in this film, it just got justified in retrospect, even though it's breaking all of the rules that these guys set up. >> Watching Instagram reels of his past life, ordering Little Caesar's pizza for the fourth time this week. He's literally me. Uh, but he's not literally you because you're sponsored by Little Caesars in this case. Like the equivalent. >> Peter Parker would kill to get a sponsorship by mobile. >> He put in his second ad is a joke. >> That's That's what I'm saying though. It's the equivalent like to say he's just like me living paycheck to pay. He's like, "You take corporate sponsors. What are you talking about?" >> They probably paid you like over easily over a grand easily. Who >> would go to New York City pizza though? >> That is low. Yeah, >> that's true. Yes, that's that is actually a good point, Nick. The idea like New York is known for its pizza and it's like Yeah, Little Caesars. It's like going to Domino's. >> Yeah. Well, people don't recognize Pizza Hut or something in New York. That's stupid as hell. Little Caesars [laughter] is just cheap. >> He should He should have gone to the local chain called Pizza Time and then everyone would be like, "Ah, Pizza Time." >> Now I'm thinking of when the Birdman went to Domino's. >> Oh my god, dude. Man, >> have you seen that, Muller? You need >> I've seen bits of it. >> That's one of the funniest things I've ever seen in my life. >> Listen, let's just put it this way. By the time we're done with this anniversary, we will have another like two anniversaries worth of stuff that we wouldn't have gotten to. I've got like three different huge Spider-Man things. I don't know how many we're doing today. >> Not caring about the key to the city he just received because he has no one to share it with. >> No, he cares about that would be the opposite. He cares about it and he can't share it with Yeah. >> If only there was a a certain cat of a dark variety that he [laughter] could have met in the last four years. >> A cat of a woman variety. >> Crazy. We have We couldn't just introduce a new character. >> No. >> No. [ __ ] you. >> I don't know why people don't realize like you are going to get another trilogy that was MJ and Ned. That's what you're going to get. >> God. And they will when the next one comes out or rolling up the [ __ ] ads, they'll be like, "You know what? Brand New Day was bad, but this one looks really [ __ ] good. >> Yep. >> It's gonna be like, "No, not again." >> Flashback to all the people saying the phase four, whatever was a seven out of 10 when they gave all the >> Yeah. >> or whatever it was. >> They rate each individual film a seven eight n >> phase four overall was a five. You're like, "Wait, what? >> Once we cleared out all the [ __ ] mines in the field, they can come in and swoop in safely and be like, "Yeah, we're we're really brave critics. I need a Spider-Man that's just down on his luck. I need him to be like a large YouTuber. >> The movie was supposed to be >> Yeah. large YouTubers like really wholesome. >> Oh yeah. >> And then over time like the the mask starts to slip and then he starts like to hate being alive and hate being alive. >> We should have an obese jump off the counter and say I have clinical depression. Imagine an obese Spider-Man swinging around the city and then he does little vlogs about how it's difficult to deal with the weight and and then he starts streaming on Twitch and talking about people of color and their ability to spend money and stuff. [laughter] >> I feel like that could be an arc. >> Tom Holland just gains a bunch of weight and doesn't say anything. >> Nobody says anything. They just treat it as normal. >> Where's our fat Where's our fat [laughter] theater arc? >> It is pretty frustrating that this >> man. this was the perfect opportunity to draw from the Spider-Man universe in isolation and instead of doing that we're not only drawing from previous movies um from Holland series but also like other >> you know like X-Men and stuff like there there's so much there just in Spider-Man's world alone and like the way they marketed it as like a street level Spider-Man and a clean slate and all that and it's just like oh man you could do so much with that just in his own little local comic book established universe and No, >> see that they released um there was some of the one of the earliest things to leak from the film was someone had filmed from because I think they'd shot the APC chase in Edinburgh. Um and so that footage was circulating on Twitter and I kind of retweeted that jokingly saying, "Oh, it's a street level Spider-Man movie." Cuz obviously a giant ABC driving down the streets is not quite what I meant by street level. That was before we knew that the person driving the APC was a mind hijacked old woman who'd been commandeered by a psychopathic mutant X-Man who was going to try and mind rape everyone to death. So it's even less street level than it looked originally. >> Yeah. >> Pretty sure it was Glasco people on the street. >> I know what you mean. Yeah. >> And you know it's like well so the movie didn't do much in like we we brought back a bunch of characters we know. So it's kind of using all that time. But what about new ones? Did we get Norman Osbor? Like, no, we we got we got Meza, who's probably not going to be appearing in anything other than an X-Men related thing. Like, okay, what else we got? Gan Gray won't be appearing again as Spider-Man. Probably going to be in an X-Men thing. Oh, okay. Um, the the detective lady, >> wolf. Trapper to Wolf. >> Yeah, she might turn up someday again. Oh, Yolena. It's like, oh, well, she's probably not coming in a Spider-Man movie again. >> Trapper. >> I can't I I get the meme names and the real names mixed up. >> I'm going to be honest. is the detective. >> Trap Wolf. Yeah, but wait. >> Oh, right. Trapper Wolf and she's dolf. >> Dwolf. >> Yeah. >> Point being legit. >> They not only brought back a bunch of [ __ ] that they should have stayed away from of all the new [ __ ] they brought in. It's not even going to be a part of Spider-Man's world. It's going to be another [ __ ] >> So, it's just like this was basically >> it's like a um I don't even know like a spinning the wheels movie, but simultaneously like we said it regresses him, adds nothing. Where are we going next time? is like, well, that's where the story will actually continue to the point where it undoes the Ned sacrifice fully. He'll they'll just be best buds by the time you see him in the next movie. And then the MJ stuff, he's just going to be developing with her until they're dating again. And it's like, so we really like the end of No Way Home and all of Brand New Day can kind of be skipped. >> Remember, it's like it teaches you in retrospect that like making personal sacrifices is totally fine because you can completely fix them 100% later. You don't actually have to commit to any of your sacrifices. That's the message of brand new day. >> It was right there, man, that he made the choice to keep them away from him because it would be dangerous to know him. But then you have people get to know him through circumstance anyway. Be it college, be at his work, be it his superheroing where he would cross paths with people like Black Cat. Would have been cool. Never mind. >> People think I was hard in the watch trilogy for years. People >> You weren't hard on them. You were [ __ ] It's difference. Okay. >> Called him a Ray. called him a what? >> Called me a Remy Shill and thought I'd be offended. >> I'm here to tell you. >> Um, well, you wouldn't want to be a shill. You'd want to be like a Remy Celebration. >> No, not him. You wouldn't want to be a shill for Spider-Man. >> I was going to say your shilling for Remy is not even in the [ __ ] scope compared to shilling for [ __ ] Sony and Disney. Like, that's way more embarrassing. At least Ray is a [ __ ] artist. >> Oh, yeah. I wasn't hard enough. >> Misery. Misery. Misery. That's what you've chosen. We could have had this all along and yet >> Why the [ __ ] we want this all along? >> [ __ ] mate. >> Could have had this great shot. Yeah. You think this is a good shot? >> People were People were praising this shot for a bit and then they stopped [laughter] cuz it looks the whole sequence looks it's it's like I I saw people were making fun of John Watts on like the, you know, having them on the wires and like in front of a green screen doesn't look very good. Like wow, what a ridiculous take. How has he not been vindicated? every single shot that's like that in this movie. It's so it's so obvious that they're not actually >> Well, there's loads of post goo on loads of >> There is a lot of post goo anyway. Yeah. Like, who are we kidding? This film is laden with VFX shots. >> Well, I I Nick, I saw you covering a a profoundly intelligent, well dieted media critic who said they couldn't quite get over how bad this film looked. >> That That's >> Wait, which one? the one you covered. Did you cover more than one? >> I I think I might have covered more. I don't remember, but I Yeah. [laughter] >> Point being, uh, it is it for some reason it was like a mass psychosis that this film looked incredible. I don't know where that came from, but it's dying gradually over the days going by. >> Sometimes sometimes it doesn't look bad. >> Is that cuz that's been the case for ages. I don't know why this was notable. Like why why was Brand New Day considered like one of the best looking Spider-Man movies that's ever been made? Is like not >> cuz it was the last Spider-Man made. >> Well, yeah. Like the the reality is is that the Remy films are way more interesting in terms of just the general film making techniques and the TASMA movies have like better VFX shots. They like they're kind of unbeaten on that front. It'd be nice if every other aspect of those films were worthwhile. But >> of the four Holland movies, the bear shots IMO still are in No Way Home. Some of the really bad ones are in there, too. But >> some of them are. But I mean two why I don't know why we don't >> the rest of the movie where the peaks are high and the valleys are low. >> The no way home ones are so good in >> well the the know home ones are so good the best ones in there that loads of people use them for like the meaningful representation of a moment in his life that's not even the scene itself. Like it's that good. It took eight. >> I was actually surprised to see so many people talk about how great the swinging in Brand New Day looked when I I thought the swinging scenes in that movie looked particularly goopy. >> He says eight appearances when one of them is him on a as a picture on a TV in the postredit scene of Venom 2. That is >> an appearance. >> Show me the body. >> This is technically an appearance. He's not even like in the movie though. >> Mogs your principled correctness. He just wanted eight squares so he could like >> Well, yeah. I mean, he's barely in uh endgame as well. >> Yeah, >> there's no way to arrange an odd number of things evenly. Can't be done. >> And and he already said he thought the Civil War appearance was good. So, this is confusing. I think a bunch of people got a weird idea of what the swinging was going to be in this movie because like when they were shooting one of their first location shoots was on Glasgow and they and they had like him actually suspended on a thing like swinging from left to right like it was all done practically >> and apparently that was just done for like a reference for the VFX team in terms of lighting and like the kinetics of how he moves but then it just ends up looking a lot like it did in the previous ones if not worse. Uh the only one I >> especially that one where he's like not he doesn't have the suit on that that that caught my eye as like the worst looking. >> This is what Fring was talking about >> of the shots. >> John Watts was the warning he gave. Right. So there's only from what I know TASM's the only movies that actually try to use the like a lorry driving and Spider-Man like a person suspended and swinging back and forth and only briefly because it you can tell eventually cuz Spider-Man is a lot faster, a lot more nimble and very elegant in a lot of the ways that he travels. And so if you look too long at something like that, you'll start to be like, "Wait, is that just a dude swinging on a car?" >> Hang on. >> Compared to if you have like the crazy shots in Fasm 2 where like he's swinging around super duper fast, really high doing crazy things that are maybe impossible. Like uh the one that stands out is that one in the opening where like he kind of launches himself towards a building and then like shoots one web like really short that just like totally sends him like sort of tumbling like 40. It's I I don't know. You You guys know you know what I'm talking about. You probably >> talking about it just doesn't quite make sense on how it connects to buildings and the links and the timing. Yeah. >> But it looks really good. >> And there's a lot of that. There's a lot of like swinging up to buildings sort of like actually pulling on the the web itself to like >> pull himself like sort of higher or so that he can get like closer to a certain ledge that he wants to jump onto. It's like a lot of it's just again it's a shame about the writing in those films. Well, it gets confusing too cuz some people are like, I hate it whenever he's the CGI blah blah blah. And it's like, so some of the best, if not the best, are all going to have him being CG in Tasm and the Remy films movies. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Is awesome, but he's often very CG in those films. The reality is like Spider-Man as a comic book character, given that his origins was as an illustrated character, you really benefit a lot from like animation specifically like you know even even in the case of when you're trying to be photorealistic even then you still benefit from embellishing it with uh sort of crazy like animation. um you know like trying to actually land a lot of the comic poses >> and unless you're doing something very specific like as a Spider-Man movie, it is impossible not to have CGI with the this you will require. Yeah. >> Yeah. Like especially if you get him going really high up like on a building. I mean you know >> just do it well. Give the effect teams the time that is now developed. We've just spent all that time basically saying that not only is there CG in all of them, but that it's necessary, important, and when well done, amazing, and celebrated to Helen back. And yet, if you paid attention solely to the the culture and like social commentary, it would be that any CG Spider-Man floopiness is automatic fail. And so, >> they're going to keep that. But what if they also just show you in marketing that it's all physical, guys? It's all phys. It's all physical. Look at the physical. Oh, it's so physical. It is a propaganda. I do not know. It >> is so physical. And then you're like, "Wait a minute. That scene wasn't even in the movie. It was physical though." In the movie. >> It was physical. It was definitely physical. >> The commercial was real as a validation of the Spider-Man films. >> They showed the physical recording. They wouldn't make it non-physical, would they? Come on. >> Um, and you know, like I said, for the record, I don't mind it being CG. It depends on how you do it, how you contextualize it. But Brand New Day is being celebrated as this one like practical Spider-Man. And it's like, what are you talking about? Why are you saying these things? >> And the times when they don't essentially do it all animated, a lot of the time those are the worst looking shots because you kind of have that problem. It's the reason why a lot of video games look better than they do because the actual fidelity of a video game is like not even coming close to what you can achieve when it's pre-rendered. Uh, and yet a lot of video games look better than these things. Because if it's all animated, there's nothing that's very real that stands out amidst a whole bunch of fake stuff. And in those shots, like the one where >> fallen to the ground, I mean, o that one looks in the rain looks horribly. It looks as bad as the one that in Supergirl that everybody was making fun of, but it's because everybody's on board with making fun of Supergirl now at this point. Probably worse, but still, they're both >> And they revealed And then they revealed that they used AI at least once and then everyone turned on it. >> Well, no, no, no. We had the same thing that happened with uh with Across the Spider-Verse when it was revealed that there was a lot of crunch, which is well, you know, maybe this is like a necessary component of uh of sort of achieving this likeity. >> That's even funnier. >> People don't maintain consistency when it means that they might have to change their sort of opinion on a thing that they like. It's really easy if you don't give a [ __ ] about the movie, but if you like it, then you got to figure it out, you know. >> Didn't something come out that they used AI in Brand New Day 2 somewhere? as yeah during the creative process they use generative AI to do like concept art for New York. >> They have attempted to deny that. Um it's not worked out super well because >> it is obviously >> I I would certainly point to it in other things too. >> No. Yeah. Well, so I was actually going to mention this. Uh the development of course was that it's like it's not AI and it's just like I don't think I trust you people who are basically paid to make this look as good as possible in post when it looks exactly like AI and it's like no it's a bashing process where you tell the computer like you got two images of a taxi and you're just like yeah kind of just kind of sync them up so yeah I just made some mistakes kind of looks like AI it's just like hm don't believe you and then uh lots of other people just starting to look through the art book and they're finding more examples there's apparently an image where Spider-Man is talking to MJ and he has Three legs. >> Yeah, that one. Oh, no. That's like a 2023 problem. >> Um, no, dude. That >> That's his mutation, dude. [laughter] >> No, actually, >> I guess they would have made I guess they would have made those images in 2023ish. So, that's why >> that's why he went to Dr. Banner. He's like, "Dude, I got this enormous third leg. You got to help me." >> It's very suspicious. >> I got this enormous third leg. Did you see >> AI is only becoming more and more relevant. So they're just [laughter] like that's going to com like there is probably not going to be a thing as concept art in these big budget movies eventually. >> Well, it probably still will be as the initial feed in image and then they'll use AI to make that was the that was the thing that they almost certainly did do with Supergirl. The irony is that the thing they used it for provably on Supergirl is the best looking part of that film which is Lobo. >> That's what [clears throat] they used it for. wouldn't be surprised to learn that they'd had concept artists draw a whole bunch of variations [clears throat] on the original character design. But then if you want to make subtler changes to color to whatever rather than sending somebody away to do that for several hours, it's obviously easier, cheaper, and more efficient for them to say, "Hey, change this color, change this, prompt it." It does it really quickly. does it basically instantly. And again, in the case of Supergirl, Lobo is the best looking part of the film. So, it didn't really hurt the film in any conceivable way. >> Can someone please explain to me though why you would need AI to do concept art for >> faster faster faster faster cheaper cheaper faster cheaper cheaper faster faster cheaper exist CGI those pigeons in Daredevil. But I mean, you know, the thing is is that a concept artist has like a specific skill set that has benefits that might just go unappreciated by this idea of, well, hey, you can just like do the prompt together. It's like, yeah, but I mean, ultimately, you kind of need someone's take. It kind of is the bottleneck is that at the end of the day, a human needs to make the decision whether or not they think something is good. And like if you're the kind of person that cultivates the skills where you can create this really nice because I there is I saw some um Remy Spider-Man concept art because of this and it's like it's really cool. It has an atmosphere and a tone that it's trying to convey and it's like yeah I mean this is the product of somebody who knows what they're doing giving it some thought. It's funny you say that, Fringy, because that three-legged Spudman, a lot of people are trying to figure out whether or not he diff definitely has three legs. And then someone just points out, it's very funny. This page, it's in the art book, and I assume now it's going to get scrutinized to death because of this. >> Is it a physical or a digital art book? >> Physical as far as I know. Um, >> oh, it is physical. That's >> Someone's taking a photo of this page. And to be fair, I don't know in which order to give you this information. I think I'll start with I'll just read the caption underneath there. This scene was one of concept artist Christian Kesler's favorites to work on. That moment was really about contrast. Kesler says, "They're sitting on a huge neon sign high above the city, but the scene itself is quiet and personal. The glow from the sign was an amazing opportunity for us to use beautiful colors and lighting to help shape the moment, and the height made it feel like we had dropped away from a minute, so their conversation blah blah blah blah blah." It's like, "Okay." The weird thing is like, "Oh, so this is supposed to be when MJ's like dropped off or somewhere near there and they sit down to have a conversation." I was like, "I recognize this image. It was shared ages ago or at least I say ages like a week earlier and it was people saying like oh originally they were going to bring in Toby Magguire Spider-Man. It's actually someone I brought up earlier cuz I this is where I got that from. >> And he's like why would you say that? And it's like well because in the concept art that that's Toby's suit. >> That's not that's not Tom Holland's suit. And you're like but it should be Tom Holland's suit because it's concept art of Tom Holland Spider-Man. >> You're like wait why wouldn't it be? Oh no. >> Yeah, that's 100% Toby. >> No, >> that's actually like a modern to uh Toby Magguire age gap, too. [laughter] >> So, um, >> did they change it because they decided to kill him in Doomsday? Is that why? >> No. No. He's This is supposed to be Tom Hall. You can already The more you zoom, look at the Spider-Man logo. >> Yeah, >> dude. Come on. >> The top right legs just cut [laughter] off. And look at the the thickness of the black webbing on the eyes on his chest. >> I noticed that his eyes far apart. That doesn't look right. >> Those eyes. Yeah, the eyes are not even the same kind of eyes. Why are we That's not the styling. You know what this is? Is they wrote captions. They wrote requests and it processed and it gave them the [ __ ] wrong suit. >> I mean, look at his notic. >> This is why it's so awful. >> Yeah. Like >> Yeah. Look at those eyes. That is not the eyes. They just outsourced their creativity to an algorithm and called it a day because >> but I I hesitate to put it this way rags, but like this is shitty AI work. [laughter] >> Oh yeah, like they didn't they put this out and they didn't give a [ __ ] >> And this is what they noticed. Why would you >> if they were publishing this so much? >> Do this again, but with Tom Holland's suit from this movie, Brand New Day. Here's what it looks like. >> They don't even realize it's bad anymore. someone do this so much they're not scrutinizing it >> like a a lot of a lot of people very they're very that's yeah >> this is really funny though. >> No it is. Yeah. >> Um but it will it will take a little while before uh people who are more consistent on uh this normally in terms of their opinion on this thing whether it's you know one way or the other will come around because they like this movie a bit too much. >> Why just with nobody cares. >> Also wait go back. >> If you don't care about AI then don't virtue signal about it and just say you don't care. It's that easy. >> No, no, but no, no, no. The thing is is that it's it's different to that. It's they do care, but they like Spider-Man. Like, they like it. So, >> someone just pointed out, look at Zenaia's shoes. >> They're like huge. >> Oh, yeah. She's got big feet. >> I was about to say it's like Crusty the Clown. >> Oh my god. >> To fill big shoes. [laughter] to say about women. >> And for the record, by the way, the uh the clearing up, the fact that they got evidence is definitive and that people were apologizing in tweets for even claiming it. All they have is one of the creators said that as far as I know, there's no AI in the book. >> Why would you hedge your bet with an answer like why? How come you linguistic back door so quickly and easily? >> Choose to fiddle. >> [laughter] >> And the thing with >> And the thing with this is that AI is trained on the biggest stuff that there is. So it's Marvel movies. And now Marvel movies are based on AI. So now we have an endless cycle of slop that will continue indefinitely. >> Man, you could bet She-Hulk's feet in there. [laughter] A whole trilogy. And despite the many sleepless nights young me had reading the hate comments, I stand by everything. I mean, >> why you say young me? As if it was like two decades. >> As if it was that long ago. Yeah, it was like what, few years ago? >> He's changed a lot since then. >> He doesn't stand by everything because he's praising the [ __ ] out of this film. So, it doesn't make any sense. You >> got to pick one. >> Turning Spider-Man into a John Hughes high school comedy is a great idea. Homecoming had so much potential, so much that I loved, but making Spider-Man more interested in the approval of a billionaire waronger turned billionaire superhero. >> End of the movie. He go rejects approval. Yes, he's going on the ark. So, how do you square that away? >> Iron Boy is just a thought terminating cliche that people say that's all it is. They can't back it up. The film doesn't >> But also with the new configuration of this weird sort of reframing of Tony where we also pretend like his arc wasn't substantial either. >> Yeah. Wait, hang hang the [ __ ] on. Billionaire waronger turned billionaire superhero. What are we >> thought? Let's be careful. >> Why? Why are we Why are we leaving that by the >> which is by the time that we're getting to Spider-Man story, we are well beyond. >> I I want to hear the tone. Hang on. I need to hear the tone. >> into a John Hughes high school comedy is a great idea. Homecoming had so much potential, so much that I loved. But making Spider-Man more interested in the approval of a billionaire wararmonger turn billionaire. >> So yeah, this is the problem I'm taking this. So he's saying like why does Spider-Man want to like take any interest or approval from a billionaire war monger turned billionaire superheroes like well probably because he [ __ ] saved the planet several times. Are we pretending like Iron Man wasn't the hero to also our world when the movie came out? >> Hello. >> Yeah. >> But no, it's changed because we're trying to make this defense for Jean and part of it has been trying to tear down Iron Man has been really bizarre. And also how do you square away Peter Palance here in this movie? you know, like in in terms of that as like a >> No, that's fine. We're fine with mass surveillance now. That's all good. [laughter] Using AI face recognition, that's all cool. >> We're also fine with curing superheroes of their powers and giving it to the government. Giving it to the [ __ ] government, man. What the hell? How is that a Peter Parker thing to do? >> Crazy [ __ ] It's insane to me too because of course we're not just looking at like like we know exactly what Iron Man did and then this is a world where he got to do very public displays of heroic acts. Why why you doing like Yeah, but he's a wararmonger. As if you had that [ __ ] perspective when you were Spider-Man gave him to the US so he's more of a peacemonger. whatever >> the worst that the worst that Tony Stark was like as soon as he experiences his weapons he starts to change. It's not like he wishes war upon people. >> No, he believes his own movie that's come true and then the rest of that movie is about him atoning for the reality. He was too naive to see. >> Would say, I've accounted for that. He was a billionaire waronger turned billionaire superhero. >> Yeah, but his whole issue is that Spider-Man would ever look up to that character. It's like, why would you have my Spider-Man looking up to a creature like this? It's like the same reason. >> Would you would you do this like if he was looking up to Thor like arrogant piece of [ __ ] turned, you know, Thor like noble Thor or or you know, like you know, scray loser Captain America [laughter] turned turned super muscly and strong Captain America or u you know, it's just why I it just feels like it's distinctly this weird flavor of [ __ ] Tony Stark lately that's been going. >> No, it's annoying as hell. Yeah, >> superhero. Then he wasn't understanding why the individual is wronged by said billionaire warong. Whoa. >> We're not doing we're not doing some justification. >> And also he's still calling him the wararm monger well past him. >> I'm sorry weapon. >> He was wrong. He was wronged by Tony. You understand? He was [ __ ] lying about loads of [ __ ] in Far From Home. >> Yeah. And then he and then and then look at what Mysterio did. Look [clears throat] at what he did as a consequence. >> I just want I just want to be clear. This is one of the Far From Home. It's not It's not the worthless movie people say it is. Okay. So, Civil War, he presents Bath, quote unquote, and says, "I need to get a new name for that." And then he also says it to like a crowd that's waiting for him to explain what can be done with the simulation process and stuff. When you get that same scene in Far From Home from uh Mysterio's perspective, he doesn't include the line where he says he needs to redo the name. He just he treats it as though that's what he called it definitively. And there's a laugh track that gets put in. That's how Mysterio saw the event. That's not what happened. >> Let's be Mysterio is not a trustworthy narrator. >> Well, so I was about to lead into Mysterio >> is a biased. >> Mysterio has a thing, you may not have known this, where he tries to represent reality as different from what it actually is. That's actually the whole character. >> That's his whole thing. >> Putting to one side that he's obviously insane. >> He's evil. It was Tony Stark's fault that he decided, you know what? I'm going to weaponize this crazy [ __ ] drones uh and and then hurt a whole bunch of innocent people in order to become a like if it wasn't for Tony Stark, Mysterio would have uh you know, he would have gone down a different path than that. >> Well, I just I can't [ __ ] believe this. We're criticizing Tony [ __ ] Stark while simultaneously being like the poor guy Mysterio that he stood on. Like, are you falling for his propaganda? What the [ __ ] is this? I feel uniquely poised to fall for propaganda. I found I found >> good god man >> flies to honey. >> I'm not sure what the truth is, guys. Let's see. [laughter] Let's see what Mysterio has to say of him. >> Let's see what the evil terrorist man has to say. >> Wararmonger superhero wanted to get even. >> Why are you telling me this? >> [ __ ] sucks, man. Wait, sorry. I need to go back cuz now we're doing Vulture. We're done. We're done. Mysterio more interested. >> Bear bear in mind he he drops the War Monga turn superhero. He just combines them there. Like I don't we know what you're doing, man. [laughter] >> Approval of a billionaire wararmonger turned billionaire superhero. Then he wasn't understanding why the individuals wronged by said billionaire wararmonger superhero wanted to get even. >> Why are you telling >> Vulture didn't want to get even? He wanted to get his own. >> He didn't give a [ __ ] about Tony Stark. He didn't get the >> in the shop that he the shop play the show that he sucks. >> That's in that shot. He's throwing away the helmet cuz he doesn't give a [ __ ] He does not give a [ __ ] about Tony Stark. He just wants him out of his way. That's all. >> He just wants to take his stuff. >> Conveniently for the for this narrative, too, if it weren't for Tony Stark, he would have died in a nuclear explosion. So, I'm not sure Vulture was particularly wronged or indeed anybody in New York was particularly wronged by Tony Stark. Mhm. >> Well, the the argument would be that DODC through the combination with Tony Stark shut down the salvage project that Vulture had paid for a bunch of stuff ahead of time for that was going to cost him >> without renumeration. That's the thing. That's a complicated bureaucratic problem that needs to be solved. Sure, that does not mean you can then just steal [ __ ] from everybody and kill people in the process. >> Why are we having this problem over and over again? What the [ __ ] is going on? Our superheroes are getting called war mongers and our villains are getting called the sympathetic working man who's just trying to make it. Dude, >> it's crazy that Peter Parker in the MCU might have a positive opinion of the guy who saved New York among many other heroics throughout the years. >> Yeah. Save the world in New York specifically. >> In New York. Yeah, exactly. It's it's uh >> destroyed New York most effective. >> It's uh is this backward ass logic is insane. And the fact that the new movie has now given us Gan Gray and these are the people that are like, >> "Fuck it." >> Spider-Man villains did nothing wrong, but Iron Man, >> oh man, it's hard. It's hard to It's It's just hard to believe, but here we are. >> Enjoy this weird rewriting of history. I can't say I'm fond of it. >> Making Spider-Man reject the Avengers invitation is a great idea. Choosing to stick to his working man roots and not become a class traitor is essential. >> Oh [ __ ] >> He needs to calm down. But like reject. He does reject. >> He does reject. That is pretty rich as well. But he does reject it. You don't You can't say it's a great idea. He does it. That's what happens in this movie. >> How is he How is he okay with the mass surveillance working for the government? How is he okay with these things? >> Why is that? >> I This is what I He's such a hypocrite. This is [ __ ] insane. >> Massive hypocrite. I would see he's bad for being a class trader, but I would never ever turn down a check from a [laughter] massive mobile game designed to sign money from I would never do it. >> I'm a poor just like you. Now play Rage Shadow Legends [laughter] >> fan service >> one because the very next appearance he is wearing the ugliest thing I've ever laid my sunken eyes on. >> So So to be clear, you can't say that it's a great idea as if it's not what happened. He does turn down becoming an Avenger. He only becomes an Avenger when a bunch of aliens come to Earth and [laughter] hatching their plan to destroy the universe. When he says you can't be a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man when there's no neighborhood, that's it. That's all it is. That's the core idea that that's a reversal. You This is not true. Everybody was [ __ ] hyped for the Iron Spider suit. Everybody when it first came out. Yeah. this idea that in retrospect that we're like turning it around that everybody now remember I I am a nanotech hater. Okay, I don't like nanotech. However, I was excited about that at the time. Everybody was. I don't know why we're pretending that wasn't the case. >> When Iron Man threw on the first nanotech suit, that [ __ ] was hype. It was like the best nanotech suit in the whole of the MCU. It's all downhill. >> He needs Infinity War. >> He needs it in this circumstance. Yeah, he's in space. >> And dude, in in in Far From Home, which isn't even the next time you see him because you see him in the two Avengers movies, he only wears it at the beginning. He doesn't have it for the rest of the movie. He's just got normal Spider-Man suit. >> So, what are you talking about? >> Makes his own suit in the >> Iron Spider's a nonissue. I don't know why people like spend so much time. We barely even see. >> It's cuz Spider-Man fans are Tony Stark related. That's why brains. We can't have it be that Spider-Man is in any way deferring to a character that isn't a Spider-Man character. Anyway, I love the new Spider-Man movie where he just completely defers to Gene Gray, X-Men character, where he has a whole bunch of screen time occupied by the Hulk, a non-S Spider-Man character, and The Punisher, a non-S Spider-Man character. >> When he defers to when he defers to Elena, when he defers to the DODC, when he [ __ ] AI and >> and the only time that you see the Spider-Man characters is in the opening montage, and then the next time you see him, he's not even the Spider-Man character. He's Gene Gray, the X-Men character. But yeah, brand new day saves Spider-Man by my own metric that is indefensible essentially based on the things that he's said in the past. >> Dude, the Iron Man mind just completely ruins. It's It's insane. Like people literally defend the worst movie out of the four just because there's no rock music playing or something or like a Tony Stark reference or like Happy Hogan showing up. It's stranged. Brand new day also gives him an AI assistant when he really doesn't need one. position. >> It's so funny, too, cuz it's like, oh god, he's Look, he's making his own suit right at the end of No Way Home and he's got a [ __ ] AI in the next movie. >> Mega AI. >> I'm sorry. Set it up. Mass Effect. >> It's so symbolic to me that John was gave him a sewing machine and then [ __ ] gave him a 3D printer >> and an AI assistant. [laughter] >> You're making a joke for a second. Then I remembered his name is actually Cretton. >> Yep. Yeah, that is >> and it introduces this like in congruity as well where like he's now got the check and he seems to have no trouble with money either. >> No. >> And yet his suit is worse in terms of its durability than basically any of his preceding suits. So you have he's left with more technology or he picks up this film with more tech than he had at the end of No Way Home and he uses it to build a worse suit than the one that that tech has already built in previous movies or tech analogist. They had all the excuses to have had as low tag as you want. They threw it all out >> and they they try and play on it because like in in one of the opening montage cuts is when you see him slumped against the the dryer, I think it is, and he's like covered in bruises. So it's like, well, okay. So his suit doesn't really protect him all that much, right? And then 5 minutes later, he tanks a hit from a grenade launcher and then gets run over by a truck and he's fine. >> Oh god. >> All things kind of forgive if if the suit were more like the Iron Spider suit, but it isn't. And apparently it's better because it isn't. But also it makes no sense now. >> Do you remember when he's getting slammed the [ __ ] out by Hulk? There was a tweet the other day that was like, you know, one thing that's strange about this whole scene is there's not a single mark of battle damage on his whole suit after the entire encounter with the Hulk. Like, yeah, that is a bit strange. This a bit odd. >> Yeah. Interesting how people start noticing things all of a sudden. Holerable to bullets while invulnerable to Hulk punches. >> Smells like a new car in here. >> Only to go on an inconsequential Disney Channel road trip movie. >> How can you say that? inconsequential. It is one of the most consequential like MCU movies. This movie is still dealing with the consequences of Far From Home. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, so if anyone doesn't remember, Far From Home is the one where Mysterio reveals his identity and Brand New Day he is still dealing with that [ __ ] That was Mysterio that did that. >> That's insane. Like inconsequential [ __ ] It might be the like other than probably something like a civil war. This is one of the movies that its DNA is like saturated in future movies. >> Yeah, it's I mean it's you know it is an element of the uh the what's movies is that they are like each of them has an impact going forward like each of them does in some way shape or form. >> A cinematic universe >> the typical Marvel movie. Yeah. Like the typical MCU movie. >> Big emotional moment involves realizing that he does not need to have access to meta glasses that allow him to order drone strikes. >> Don't even do Don't even start. Don't even stop, bro. >> Oh, do we have a problem with that? Do we have an issue? What about the [ __ ] he's got in this movie? >> And besid, this is the one comparison that actually does blow my mind. It's like, oh, my cool, super cool, amazing glasses. What can I uh what can I see with this? And it's like, oh, you can see everyone's private messages on their phones. And he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't look at that. That's wrong. >> That's what he says in he says in that movie, but he's gone backwards on this front uh in the time since then. He's gone backwards. Taste for it. >> It's amazing because the writers are like like we need to mention it's illegal. It's like illegal. >> Far from home was [laughter] such a good movie. When Peter tried to accidentally kill one of his classmates, he was like, "Yo, that's bad." And now in the new movie, Gan Gray just like nearly kills half of New York. >> And he's like, "That's good. Yeah, you're not a killer." >> Daredevil Born Again established vigilantes are illegal in New York, so that doesn't even matter. By the way, as some people are starting to notice, a lot of ripping into the watch trilogy here. Where's the uh you know >> after the intro and the ad? >> Yeah. >> The video still hasn't started yet. >> Oh. Uh >> only for the creatives to realize that they had created a character that is essentially the antithesis to everything the audience originally loved about the struggling down on his luck forever. >> Oh, that's weird cuz the audience seemed to love the Watts trilogy if you're going to go by that [ __ ] metric. I mean, yeah, >> on on screen right now is the spectacular Spider-Man animated show. I strongly recommend watching it. Every episode is is better than Brand New Day. Like, each one has a high bar. >> Do you think >> he thinks that the box office for Brand New Day is because of the wonderful changes making Spider-Man properly, or does he have any idea that it's because of the like strength of the IP and the reliability now of the icon through several Spider-Man films that have all been reliably entertaining for people? it has anything to do with it because it's funny how it's just built up more and more and more the crazy ramp up and what's going to happen now inevitably this is a bit this is a bit of a guess but I'm curious what you guys think Brand New Day 2 or let's just say the sequel to Brand New Day. Do you think it makes more or less than Brand New Day? >> Honestly, probably about the same, maybe a little less. >> I think it'll be less. >> Probably less. Yeah, >> I don't think so. considerably. >> Depends on how uh well Doomsday's and Secret Wars is received. >> I want it to make >> Well, >> I think Spider-Man. That's the thing. If If it's really good, I want it to make money. If it's really bad, I don't want it to be. >> It's nothing necessarily do that. >> It's It's kind of crazy, but it's going to come down to Spiderverse. That's going to be the last Spider-Man people movie people see. I don't think people will realize Across the Spiderverse is bad. >> I don't think that the Spiderverse will impact it >> that much. >> Hey, that's my take, not yours. >> You can't You can't judge Across the Spiderverse. It hasn't even ended. You got to wait. >> Oh, yeah. True. >> Brand New Day making as much money. >> I I think Brand New Day making as much money as it did might actually be because of how shitty the last several MCU movies have been that >> Yeah, like well be good, so we'll go see that one. >> That's the thing. people come out for Spider-Man and the three last major Spider-Mans with Tom Holland have made the audience go crazy. So >> yeah, the last three have increasingly like each of the Watts films made more and more and more money. They each it went up it went like 850 million to about 1.1 billion >> came out during co >> and it came out it was made during co came out obviously it was it obviously benefited from uh from having the other Spider-Man in it. However, there was still a clear upward trajectory that was present which was the opposite of what was happening with the TASM movies where it was going down. >> Ever lovable loner who never gives up despite the great pain he >> Well, you sure did give up his principles in this movie, huh? Crazy >> face. So, in a desperate attempt to make a gazillion dollars brought back the two Peter Parkers >> desperate attempt. >> I mean, this was calculated and it made them [ __ ] and it worked and you have to accept that it worked. Not only that, but you have to concede, as many people do hate this movie, that they were treated really [ __ ] well, both of them. >> Um, I would even go as far as saying shockingly well. They weren't just here and didn't know damage was done to them. They were both added to to the point where they're cannon. You can happily consider their stories added to for this. >> Oh, yeah. In hindsight, it's it's it's doubly shocking considering all the other crap that we get. given that they they both turn up in the third act and they were also like added to I think is a >> I would never reroll this movie. There's no way >> if they didn't bring stuff. >> Do you do you think that he thinks that this movie would have failed if they just did like another >> I don't know. There was some like talk of like I don't know what the original direction was. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't know that he would believe that honestly. It would be crazy to think that. But everyone's happy to concede that it was an event to go and see the three Spider-Man. >> My I still remember our my theater was like, "Oh, when they popped up like they made noises." Oh [ __ ] Everyone went [ __ ] nice. >> That was like >> That was like I was going to say last big MCU moment, but that's like the last big superhero moment for culture that's happened. >> Yeah. The next one's Doomsday. >> Anything more recent? >> Yeah, you're right. >> AI movie. Peter Parker to teach this new Peter Parker that it's okay to be Peter Parker. >> But okay, >> so >> what does that even mean? What kind of Peter Parker? >> So this is what I mean. It's it's just the degradation of assessment here. Like you have the cautionary tale in Andrew Garfield who's desperately trying to make better of his life and then Tobey Maguire who made the right choices and has reached an equilibrium representative of a better path who acts as like a dad to both of them. By the way, loads of his lines are like sort of focused around that and angled that way for both of them. Tom's got to make a choice. It's going to take him down one of two paths. And it's it's both of these Spider-Man that facilitate the chance for him to not go down that path. He gets the the extra chance. The extra chance. And then he saves Norman, which is something that Tom Magguire couldn't do. Not because he didn't have the capacity. He didn't have the chance in the sense of [ __ ] glider, man. It sucks because he [ __ ] killed him. >> We'll get you. But like it's it's crazy to me that there's so much more going on and so much more care taken with this dynamic of characters than the new Peter Parker has told him how to be Peter Parker than he started being Peter Parker. It's like right. Okay. >> I think they flanderize my over dramatic movie critic. >> Oh, which he can only really understand the weight of once another Peter Parker's ultimate enemy kills this Peter Parker's Aunt May. Ending the journey in a place where this new Peter Parker ends up exactly where he was when we first met him. >> Oh dear. No, but we first met him. >> I think you know I think you know that's not true. >> Not even [ __ ] close, dude. >> I wonder if he does. I wonder if he even rewatched the movie before making this video. >> How do you How do you in one breath say that he lost Aunt May and then simultaneously say he's back to where he was at the beginning of Homecoming or beginning middle of Civil War, whatever. How is that even possible? How do you how do you make those two points? >> Yeah, >> cuz he still has Uncle Ben. He's [laughter] got a [ __ ] skeleton in his closet. >> Oh, that'd be funny. [laughter] He just gets him out of the closet, sticks his head in the skull. [laughter] >> 10 years ago, >> I'm a cannon death Peter. >> Kill me. Kill me. Kill me. >> The whole trilogy a weird social experiment and how far you can bend a beloved eye. >> Your [ __ ] videos on them are a weird social experiment. I'm glad that you've given up on the whole like all of the rules on how to make a good Spider-Man because this one I guess you got the ad placement for. It's [ __ ] insane the comparison to be making here >> until he breaks and becomes something nearly unrecognizable. My point is I will never view this film as >> trying to save the universe from an ali alien force I guess with the iron spider unrecognizable. >> The end point of one long character. >> Oh, get the [ __ ] on with it. Spell brand new day. >> I will never Oh. Wait. Oh, he's talking about the third one, right? Never mind. I was going to say, why would the first movie in the new trilogy be the end point? >> You saying get on with it is just like the motto for whenever. >> Look how far in the video we are. [laughter] >> Come on. >> Like three hours. >> My mistake. >> All of part two of the anniversary will be this video. >> Movies to view art. It's not always all a part of the plan. Our first three Tom Holland Spider-Man movies was the first act of Sam Ramy's [music] >> Yeah. >> Spidey movie. >> Yeah, you were right. >> That uh he's basing that off what Kevin Feige said. He's >> evening confirming that >> evening. Even >> what Kevin Feige said. >> Even Fringy and Stringy now. >> Stringy >> was the intention when we were going to do it. >> The watch trilogy and his appearances in Infinity War and Endgame was not one long surf Dracula Spider-Man story. It's not even surf Dracula. You see him beat all three of his villains personally. So, I don't know why he's saying that. Does plenty of [ __ ] swinging, plenty of decision-m that's important. Does more of it than in Brand New Day. He makes the most definitive Peter Parker sacrifice. So, why are we saying it's a surf Dracula, which for if you don't know, surf Dracula is a meme where uh too many pieces of media these days will have something as cool as a concept of surf Dracula, Dracula surfing, but that they'll spend all of their time building it up, finding this surfboard, giving Dracula a whole backstory for why he surfs, and then the final episode they let him surf for like 5 seconds and that's the end. That's like the meme of surfac. Were you not paying attention? That's why it's so cool. >> Um, >> sorry. What the [ __ ] is this? Dracula surfing. >> It's It's a good meme, honestly, cuz it that's like the distracting part. It's supposed to be the nature of fun when it comes to media. Like what we want to see. We want to see Spider-Man swinging around. We want to see him beating enemies. We want to see him saving people. And he's saying we spent a whole trilogy surf Dracula as he didn't get to do any of those things only like until right at the end when it's like that's just not true at all. >> Obviously did get to do those things, >> bro. Apparently Hot Top just literally wanted to see him do like a dramatic swing at the end of the movie and as soon as that ended the move the trilogy was over. >> I wish I wish we could get like a hypothetical of the exact movie High Top wants. >> We did. It's called Brand New Day >> because I he doesn't even know what he wants. Like if he was given this the ability to write a script, he wouldn't know what to do. >> Wasn't that the one that was like Spider-Man who didn't like black people? Wasn't that like the ideal [laughter] one? I I believe he was like somewhat connected to that. And wasn't there a thing if there was a chat room where all of those guys were [ __ ] all over John Watts with High Top and then even though John Watts had publicly tried to support them and be like good for you guys, you know, go ahead do it. >> So funny how they treat him. >> Um but yeah, you know, regardless Kevin Feige saying that the first three are like the first act of the Sam Remy one, it was intentional. It was obvious. We talked about it when only Homecoming was out. the the nature of this like journey of building Spider-Man up to being a solitary solo strong like I know exactly what I'm doing. I've got all the resources I need even with nothing to be my own superhero versus launching in the MCU is a chance to get him influenced by other heroes to watch how he integrates with other teams and then it's like, okay, we've done all of these experimental things. We're going to put him back to where he was the last time we'd seen him in two other trilogies. Well, one other trilogy, one other duogy. Um, all of that was part of the plan. That's what John Watts wanted to do. And then you get your first film where we're finally like, "Yes, let's set off onto the adult trilogy and we just get [ __ ] DLC for the uh teenage trilogy." [laughter] >> It was a series of movies that as they went on, in my opinion, of course, started to feel like plastic polish. >> In my opinion, of course. >> Why do you even throw that in? What's [laughter] the [ __ ] point? Also, I thought he liked No Way Home. I don't remember anymore. This guy's hard to track. Is that is this cuz this is like his concluding thought of the second intro. So I guess he >> I don't know if we're that lucky. >> This is my opinion. >> And I guarantee this description will much more closely match Brand New Day than any of the Watts movies. The only way in which it's unsafe and unsanitary is the accidental way they turned their villain into a mass murdering psychopath. >> Stale stagnant sauce was sludge that forgot what made Spider-Man. >> Oh, aliteration. How cool. it just changed all the visuals to brand new day [ __ ] and it would have made as much sense. But hey, >> it's really nice to have a [music] level of that like positive reinforcement of like, oh, you didn't completely up, you know, >> and now it's very very very clear that Tom Holland knew what made the character special all along. He just finally has enough sway and influence. >> He piece of Palunteer was what he needed all along. [laughter] He just needed to track everyone. >> Have a massive surveillance state. >> He needed to give the government the key to controlling all superpowered people. knew to be like, "We got to burn this shit." >> Yeah, that's what [ __ ] Batman Christopher Nolan >> and Captain America Project Insight was all regarding this [ __ ] as well in Winter Soldier. I guess we conveniently forgot that. It's just amazing how much Spider-Man could get away with it because look, the suit has wrinkles. Look at it. [laughter] Even so much of it is like I keep looking for it, but I still see tweets with like tens of thousands of likes and retweets >> like usually [ __ ] on the Watts movies by comparison and saying how amazing Brand New Day is. And it literally is just the suit. Yeah, >> that's it. These people are [ __ ] Spider-Man fans are [ __ ] >> Yeah, the two best the two movies with the best suits are the two worst Spider-Man movies. Isn't that great? True. What do we say constantly about Halo 4 and how it has a really good Cortana? It's a very similar Well, at least at least Cortana's really good at Halo 4. Shame about the rest of the game though. >> I think they Halo Infinite is [ __ ] terrible, but the suit's pretty cool. >> How many times have we said it's like or other people in our sort of sphere have said it's like, "Yeah, but at least they got the comic accurate suit." And you're like, [laughter] >> I guess the poster looks okay. >> You know that montage at the beginning was a bunch of film's going to be terrible. >> Hey, Wolverine had the yellow suit. [ __ ] you. >> Oh god, you guys suit >> for this Wolverine game. >> The the Wolverine Deluxe Edition has a suit that was from like a really old Wolverine comic. The thing is it looks terrible in the game and people are like oh yeah fake fan this is a suit from the comics and like the obvious answer is just yeah but it looks like [ __ ] in this bad >> just cuz it's in a comic doesn't mean it's automatically really good >> doesn't mean it looks good when it's rendered in Sony movie game graphics either >> some things just don't translate man >> the only um fan base that really gives a [ __ ] that much is Spider-Man like they actually got really [ __ ] mad that somebody put out a terrible suit for the new movie and they were like complaining that Fortnite got a more accurate one >> Peter Palunteer >> like they didn't even put out DLC for Spider-Man 2. This is the only postlaunch content they released and it was terrible. >> What was that? I was nervous about Dustin Daniel credit. Not because I was unfamiliar with his work. Not because I didn't think he could do a good job. Short-term 12 is a literal >> Oh, [ __ ] off. Who the [ __ ] see what people are? I don't believe. >> It's beef. >> It's beef. Yes, it's beef. Yes, thank you for remembering. It's beef >> studying the pain and trauma of young people who feel entirely alone and left behind. And Wonderman turned out to be the most soul. >> What is his name? What is Wonderman's name? Tell me his name. What is his name? >> Bro, B used to be believable. Obviously, I know that I obviously I know that he can't answer, but I'm just saying I very much doubt that he even remembers the guy's name. >> Everybody says they think Wonder is cool, but they have nothing to say about it specifically. >> I don't see anybody I don't know. It's just that when you have something like Obsession, it is undeniable that people are authentically interested in that movie because they talk about specific things that happen in the movie. they'll talk about, you know, a particular performance in a scene or the way that a scene is shot or lit or um, you know, how it ties into like the broader themes of the movie. That's like, you know, that tells you something essentially about how passionate people are. I don't see that with Wonderman. I don't see anybody talking about it. >> Well, speaking of which, >> oh wow, it's great. It's great and it should have gotten a second season, but you probably don't even remember the name of the main character. >> Was getting gassed up and it's [ __ ] [ __ ] like the I I saw a post and I can't I don't know exactly the source. >> The German came in the call. >> How do you do fellow YouTubers? Where's the gas? >> Fine. >> You have your own. Anyway, >> there's Wonderman reportedly canled because it was by far Marvel's least watched live action show. Does this shock literally anyone? >> Nope. >> The only the only thing you might be like, "Well, what? It was less watched than Ekko?" It's like, yeah, Echo at Daredevil. >> I can believe it. >> Yeah, it's technically true. Wonderman had the Mandarin kind of. >> No, man. No. High loved it. It was soulful. >> Risky MCU project. >> [ __ ] risky. Risky. >> Nothing risky about it. >> Hollywood wanking themselves off in a superhero show. That's what it was. >> Possibly. >> No. [screaming] >> Possibly. >> Oh, don't remind me of that [ __ ] You don't care. >> I just came back. Jesus Christ. >> You're not that upset about it. >> High top, right? This is hightop. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Where the where he had an ad for a mobile game starring Spider-Man in his Spider-Man review where he says he loved it. >> Yeah, man. >> Okay. >> I buy it. >> I know the man has sauce, but Shani, do despite some very solid >> Oh, careful. >> Oh, interesting. >> Critical of Shani. >> Oh, what what did he say at the time? What what what was High Top's Shani view at the time when it actually came out though head >> of ideas felt like all the potential magic was shortstopped in service of conforming to Marvel's idea of a comforting tone >> beefy Spider-Man despite the last decade of live action movies has always been a character that needs a strong visual identity it's a dream job to bring your own >> oh I guess he had to like you know if he's going to argue simultaneously that there's been no visual identity in the Watts trilogy but that it's needed did you have to you have to conform that somehow with the fact that it was majorly successful. So maybe it doesn't need it by your own metric. That's why you said like despite 10 years of not needing it, it does need it. >> But again, make any sense. That's kind of just No, >> the the Watts movies have a style. Just because you don't care for it doesn't mean that they don't have one. >> I mean, he even acknowledged the Hughes movie like inspiration. you know, it's all meant to be kind of like very ground level, very like normal. That's kind of like the the tone that it's going for a lot of the time rather than like heightened or, you know, spectacular. >> Now, if you don't like that, that's fine. But, you know, >> yeah, >> of camera movement, a personality to the myth of Peter Parker, but I'm >> the myth of Peter Parker. I I do I do need him to defend the the the soundtrack for uh for Tasm if that's what it felt like he was ramping up, you know, showing some of these shots because there look the the webs slinging shots are pretty cool, but a lot of the other shots in the >> What? >> I just I just I was just singing one of my favorite songs from that time. >> Oh, you were singing that I cuz I thought I couldn't tell you what you're saying, but yes, >> I just got lost in the moment. [laughter] >> Hey, it's me. Electricity. That song is [ __ ] awesome. >> I don't even remember. >> That's why That's why I'm singing. That's why I was vibing. >> I feel left. >> That's why I was here vibing at 3:47 a.m. >> Remember he fell into a >> a vat with electric eels in it. >> Well, he was Well, his mother was researching spiders in the Amazon. Yeah. >> His teeth again in No Way Home where he's like, "What happened to you?" He's like, "I fell into a vat of electric eels." He's like, "What happened to you? I fell into a super collider or whatever." He's like, "Shit, man." because stuff's falling into things [laughter] like he fell into a vat of electric eel. I think one of the guys like, "Yeah, that'll do it. >> That'll do it." >> It's been really awkward seeing people uh pretend that they hate that scene when it's a great scene with lots of witty banter and fun jokes and we're doing a bit of character as well. >> Man, I want to fight an alien. I fought a Russian guy in a rhino suit. >> I'm lame. Hey, don't don't say that. [laughter] >> You are amazing. >> I didn't hear that. >> I've seen that clip recently. It's so good. I like it a lot. >> It's great. >> Did Sony like poach all the people who make the Marvel movies and now like their Spider-Man movies are good and all the Marvel movies are terrible? >> I'm sorry. Is Brand New Day good? >> Oh, true. [laughter] >> I forgot, dude. For a moment when we were just talking about how awesome No Way Home was, I just forgot that we were watching. >> For a second, we thought they were good movies. I think high top forgot he was making a brand new day video cuz we're like 10 minutes in. >> We're getting there. Okay. >> Say that I truly think Destin brought the full Daniel cred into this. >> He brought the full cret into this. [laughter] >> If that means anything, I'm so tired of people pretending that they're >> never go full credit. >> It certainly means something. >> That fight against the I swear they multiplied every time they cut this [ __ ] shot. [laughter] going to hear a lot of recency bias raves about how it's the best action in a Spider-Man movie, best swinging ever, and that just ain't true. >> Norman's on sabatical. >> They literally don't make them like they used to. And that's not even an expression. They just don't make them like they used to in the sense that instead of filming in New York City, they spend millions to recreate New York streets on the back. >> Necessary part of the video. >> Um, I mean, >> well, it's just it's just like letting out a little bit of the true hightop here, I feel. >> Isn't this a knock against Brand New Day? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The reason that's happening is because uh when when you skewer uh the home trilogy with Brand New Day, Brand New Day is the golden spear that flies right through. However, when you even [ __ ] imply that it could even scratch at the Remy trilogy. >> That spear disintegrates into [ __ ] dust. It's like, oh [laughter] Jesus. It's like how dare you imply the swinging in this. I agree that uh Brand New Day is not in a position to be coming close to uh to like the Remy movies. I agree with that. >> Yeah. >> Or just movies. >> We obviously don't agree that on the on the Homecoming and you know Far From Home and all that >> in the sense that the VFX team had double the time back in 2014 to create Mark Webb's opening swinging sequence than they do now. That sounds like >> So what should you Yeah. Why are you championing this film that had like a seven-month post-production window? And you should like you should like >> they put the wrinkles in. >> I mean they barely did. >> I can see them right there. >> Look at them. Look at that. >> Yeah, just a little bit. But I mean it's you know it's not a very good opening sequence. >> It adds to the writing though. >> One like I'm hating but it's quite the opposite. I'm so overjoyed to say you can feel Destin's touch here. I'm so happy. [laughter] >> What? What is that touch? >> What is that doll? Where >> touched [laughter] me? >> I have not concerned >> had a career before he made the Spider-Man movies. What has Destin Daniel [ __ ] done? >> Nobody. They're not in It's like with Matt Shackman for Fantastic 4. Oh, he's going to cook. What a great choice. It's like, dude, you guys are not even in a position to have any opinion on these filmmakers. I just don't believe it. You're investing in their careers. He's like, "I definitely watched this movie about youth and Wonderman before making this review." >> Everyone loved Wonder Woman. Why are you implying otherwise? >> Finds the way the studio likes to make these movies now. Brand new day feels like actual hands were involved in hammering down >> actual hands. >> Hands hands on the other ones. >> Also, by the way, this is slightly rude. Actual hands are involved in creating the visual effects. Don't downplay that. >> The [ __ ] is saying this about the only one that has AI in the concept art. >> That is true. >> Like the worst time to have AI. >> How about that? Huh? How do you feel about that? >> He's very mean. He's such a fraud. >> I believed in you, High Top. >> That was your biggest >> He might be a fraud, but he's not missing those brand new game modes. All right. >> Nice. >> And two is like don't they don't make them like they used to point. It's like was [ __ ] not the kind of ur that could say hey let's just shoot this in New York instead of recreating New York with green screen on back lots >> and if you're like well he can do that why does get nothing for the fact that he had to make like no way home in a rapidly >> no bad >> and and condensed like timeline in the middle of >> the cave in the box of scraps >> like for him it probably was actually impossible to do anything in New York during uh during co like for for any production >> that's actually much It would have been >> it would have been really really difficult I imagine. Um but but no you know just bringing that movie together under that especially having to deal with multiverse stuff having to deal with the fact that like Spider-Man No Way Home was in some way going to be tied to Multiverse of Madness. Initially it was going to come after it then it becomes before it and he's got to figure that out while juggling all of this stuff and it's it's just nothing for him. No sympathy for him. No credit for being able to achieve anything like just you know [ __ ] you. you suck. >> Well, because under much easier circumstances for this movie like oh, you know, oh, but there's so much of a human touch. It's just crazy to me. >> Sets tossing the trash bags, crafting the graffiti. Actual stunt artists were swinging from these buildings, doing back. >> They have fake Did they have fake stunt artists on the other movies? >> Yes. >> Yes, >> they weren't real. If a stunt artist swings through >> If a stunt artist swings through a movie set, but it's cut from the film, did it actually happen? >> We're involved. >> If it's in the commercials, it happeneding the blockbuster art. And the [music] beauty is that you can for once hear them. There's this one. >> All it takes is building the whole movie on AI. >> You can [laughter] you can hear the hands that touch this movie. >> You can hear the hands that I like the lady with nice loud hands. I enjoy that as well. They're talking all about visuals and you can hear that. >> Daniel placed his hands on Spider-Man. >> You can hear the things that they made visually. >> Shot stuck in my brain. >> Feel or see? Not here. >> Yes. >> I I I don't object to any of these points regarding the practical approach, but it was all in service for a script that was incredibly clunky. >> Yes. Of course. Yes. [laughter] >> I feel like we're lingering, not us, but like him. We're lingering on this detail and the the video is like going on and we're getting a little further in. Is he going to talk about like I don't know >> the movie >> the plot >> and like but that seems to be one of the major >> the home trilogy was the movie. >> No, the home trilogy is terrible. The suit looks great. There's people um I don't know a stunt man probably nearly died in the creation. [laughter] The director and the VFX people touched this movie. That makes >> Cton touched Spider-Man. He's >> touched his big >> Shadow Legends >> and and the fact that it's all in service to a script that is incredibly clunky is really frustrating because you had all the time in the world to make the script as good as it could be. But in the end, it still ended up feeling like it was taped together with a bunch of [ __ ] like one of the issues. >> Well, yeah, we still haven't gotten to Jean. Give it time, I'm sure. I >> I feel so confident that they started making this movie and then they found out the mind swapping villain was going to be Gene like halfway through. >> No, they [ __ ] said he wanted her from the get-go. He wanted Jean. >> It's like the beginning. Yeah, it was like a beginning uh thought which is insane. >> It is insane. >> Just seems like they make her so unbelievably evil in the first half of this movie especially. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. They said they wanted her because they wanted a villain who mirrored Spider-Man's own condition. somebody who was vulnerable and alone. Jean Gray >> and a massive mass murderer. Yeah, I can see it. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> I recently watched another bad movie that featured Gan Gray, X-Men Dark Phoenix. And the stuff Gan Gray does that has both Beast and Magneto ready to kill her is less bad than what she does in the first act of Brand New Day. >> Well, this is one of the things that's going to make this more damaging than its fans will ever let on. Is that how do you progress this Gan Gray? like you can't there's no runway to do the Dark Phoenix stuff because she's already worse than Dark Phoenix. So, what do you do? >> Kind of have a Wanda situation on our hands yet again. They've stumbled right into it. A problem that they've already had and they just decided [ __ ] it twice. >> And this will be a contagion as well. It will be a contagion that spills out to the other X-Men characters by association. >> Yep. Cuz if they ever find out, if they ever learn and they accept it, then Ooh. I just can't get over the fact that they dressed her up like Max and made her run in slow motion. That's just some of [laughter] the funny That's so [ __ ] funny. >> Peter's on the phone with the wolf played so brilliantly by Liza Cologne Zas. >> I definitely didn't have her name, >> bro. I don't even remember who the [ __ ] that character was. >> It's just she played it brilliantly. She was so brilliantly. Several brilliant scenes. >> Brilliant. >> Who the [ __ ] is she? What? >> Was on seventh, therefore brilliant. >> She was so good at that. >> Who was she in? I'm totally I'm blank. >> Who was she in? >> Detective. Detective DeWolf. >> Oh, the wolf. >> Wolf's sister. >> I [laughter] shouldn't have said her name. I should have just said, "Remember the brilliant character." And you would have been like, "Ah, yes." Cuz >> I think that's the description that was throwing me. It's like played so brilliantly. What? I don't think anyone in the movie is. Who the [ __ ] is she? But okay, she's tropical. >> I forgot she was in the movie. >> Black lady and mom is her whole arc. Like that's that's her whole character. She has two traits. >> I I heard a black woman talking and I shut up so I could listen. >> Oh yeah, >> she can tell she can tell Spidey thinks he already knows because they both use the same [ __ ] app. It's like a tank. >> The fact that that's a valid sentence. They use the same [ __ ] app. >> I know, right? >> Good god. >> Beautiful. >> I love that relationship so much. the relationship. They explicitly say they don't even know each other other than just she gives him [ __ ] weird >> relationship between Spider-Man and some lady. >> It's the exact same relationship from the Insomniac game. It's literally what they pulled. They also pulled like >> Honestly, it made more. I I thought this would have like Mr. Negative in it. The way that it was trailing off with all the uh Insomniac kind of things. >> You could at least do something visually interesting with Mr. Negative. >> Yeah, he can like take over people. try to >> authentic. It felt real like the fact they call each other dude. >> They call each other dude. >> Yeah. >> This really is a good film actually. Think about it. >> And we're not connecting. >> Jesus Christ, man. Finally, Spider-Man connecting with someone other than an Avenger. >> Finally, Spider-Man got called dude. It's bad to connect with an Avenger. funny. >> Didn't she like tell him that you need friends or something? >> Yeah, I'm afraid Elena is an Avenger officially high top. I don't know if you knew that. >> Oh, true. >> Avengers. He's a new Avenger. >> Leader of the new Avengers. >> Sorry, bud. >> You have to >> do a full retraction. >> Hulk is an Avenger, too, by the way. >> Yeah, >> Elena is the terrible person that you're trying to make Tony out to be, just to be clear. But >> that's also true. Yeah, >> but but who cares, right? Who gives a [ __ ] >> Him saying that >> him saying that dude is authentic just made me think of like mixtape and Van Slater talking to uh Spider-Man. He's like, "Oh, it's so authentic." He said, "Chucking terrible name." >> Cha. >> Anyway, he's on the phone and he gets an alert and runs out of the store. Simple thing we've seen a thousand times. What's Yeah. What's uh what's on the phone? >> What's on the phone? Mansley and cinematographer Brad Paul. Go >> wait. Hold on. Wait. Wait. Wait. Can we hear that again? >> Please. >> Did he say Brad? >> Let's roll it back again. Hang on. Let's roll it back. Chat, you're going to have to look at the screen for this one to get what's happening here. >> WOULD YOU SHUT THE [ __ ] UP? >> ANYWAYS, he's on the phone and he gets an alert and runs out of the store. simple thing we've seen a thousand times. But I love how Destin and cinematographer Brad Paulie >> Oh no. >> You have you have uh made a mistake here. >> You made a mistake. >> I shall now be mercilessly mocked. It looks like you value his work and you got his name wrong. >> Hightop's favorite director of photography, Brad, has been has been cruy misnamed by Sony and Disney marketing. They must have made a mistake. >> We're known to >> If he cared this, this is a script that he recorded and edited. If he cared, why would if he cared about this guy's work, why would he leave an error in where he got his name wrong? >> Why would he get his name wrong if he editing it and the name's written on the screen? >> I mean, this this is what we were saying earlier, right? He'll say the names extremely confidently as well as their past work as though he knows them so well. Well, he'll convince you he knows him so well. Like, you [ __ ] didn't even read his name, right? It's all discreet. >> Yes, I agree with I love [laughter] cuz he talks about him. Yeah, he talks about him as if he's invested in the kind of work that he does. Doesn't even know his name. >> Knows his name. Even >> Well, I know his name. >> Well, I know I know because it's on the screen, but like I mean, my whole point consistently is that I don't care about [laughter] the work. >> Dude, they couldn't even spell. >> I don't know who these people are. They just put two next to each other. >> People need to be more honest about that. You don't know who these you >> don't need to know who the director of photography is. It's okay, >> you know, if you want to know that. But the reality is like the an average normal person could not name one. Even your typical sort of film connoisseur could probably only name three directors of photography off the top of their head. >> I honestly don't >> I don't think I can name the directors of photography of my favorite movies if you asked me right now. >> I'm not going to be able to name when the >> it is a worthwhile thing to know, but in this case, we're dealing with someone who wants to make it seem like he really knows what he's talking about and he's invested in the work that these guys do gets his name wrong. Hilarious. >> This is bad faith. You're assuming that he got the name wrong when Marvel might have gotten it wrong. >> It's It's entirely possible, yes, that Marvel could have gotten it wrong. >> Go for I No, you shouldn't have put that thought in my head. Now I need to double check. >> That [laughter] would be the >> That'd be the funniest outcome. Yeah. Now I need to double check. >> Listen, he was just too busy getting touched by Destin. All right. He was just excited. >> Uh >> I can't wait to hear what he thinks about the Punisher. >> No, it it his name is Brett. That is his name. It is Brett, not Brad. >> People call him Brad. It's like a nickname. >> Director of photography of Would have been able to tell you that. Imagine if we just sat here going on a rant for like seven minutes and it turned out. >> This is very funny. Um, some of the things that he w he worked on as a director of photography is Unicorn Store. >> Oh god. >> Oh, that movie. >> That's that's a blast from the past. That's EAP movies like two. >> I think it's two. Yeah. >> Is it possible that like Hightop knows this guy so well? He knows name. >> Artistic lady. >> Yeah. If you if you actually knew Brett, you'd know that people call him Brad. So >> yeah, like everyone's friends call him Brad. >> Oh, wow. This is hilarious. He was the director of photography on on Halo 4 Ford Unto Dawn. >> Oo. >> Oh, better Halo live action than the television show based on. That's uh that's that's one of the things he worked on. That was that was pretty early on. That was that was early because that was a long time ago. >> Hey, there was an X-Men in that, too. Colossus was Master Chief. Colossus like from X2. >> Oh, all right. Well, there you go. Can I >> the store? Not post effect handheld [ __ ] to simulate an indie film, but genuine shaky cam. The camera >> genuine shaky camu shaky cam, >> man. Like I wish you cared about like story and characters. >> They had genuine shaky cam and Kenobi. Everyone loves [laughter] God. >> Genuine. >> Who has genuine shaky cam? [ __ ] >> we got to cam up with Parkinson's. That's genuine. >> Yeah, backseater has genuine shaking cam. >> He does is not that hard to do. You just got to actual genuine. >> Operator is just going to try to keep up with Tom Holland as he books it. We are going to go full short-term 12 for a beat before we are going to transition into that huge CG swinging sequence. You can feel that human touch which should be a given, but >> Oh, no. [laughter] I don't want to be touched. I like how he talked about a character for like two seconds and he's right back to the genuine [ __ ] swinging. >> At least he didn't say you could hear the touch this time. >> What did he think about the huge CGI? >> He likes them cuz you can feel the human touch in this being the only Spider-Man film with AI concept art is so [ __ ] funny to me. >> Maybe he should touch some [ __ ] Am I right? >> Yeah, boy. This film touched me far too often. I consider following the police. >> That's That's terrible. I hope Are you okay? >> Well, he's here, isn't he? He must be okay. >> So, he must not be okay. He's here. [laughter] >> It's 4 in the morning and he's something wrong. >> Something's gone wrong. >> High top, >> especially when it comes to arguably the most human superhero, >> uh, Steve Rogers. >> Look, you need to chill. Just cuz he's your favorite doesn't mean that you need to be like, you know, sort of making these crazy sounds. >> I don't know what that means. >> Yeah. Just pause a second. Right. Most human are we doing most nons supernatural powers using that logic? >> Punisher even who's in this movie. >> Batman Punisher is I guess more human cuz he's like a guy that has >> Iron Man is more human than Spider-Man. >> Black Widow doesn't have any powers. >> Punisher had like a moment of clarity. He he forgot what movie he was in and just shot >> evil [laughter] millionaire >> human. >> Iron Man's more than Spider-Man. >> He's like half of his name is >> he's got spider DNA relatable. Well, I will say that is absurd. I'm not saying that you like but the most relatable. How could that How could there be one character who is the most relatable? How's that even possible? >> People call Spider-Man the relatable superhero. It's the buzz word all the Spider-Man fans say he's not rich. >> Yeah, but like he's not the most relatable to everybody in the world. That's not why you have a That's unironically the reason though. It's cuz he's poor. >> It's cuz he's poor. >> But he's not even he's like he's trying to be poor coded. >> Poor pathetic losers are all like, "God, I'm just like the champagne socialist." [laughter] Dude, >> it's literally me. >> Because my big apartment in Manhattan is messy. That is >> your girlfriend. Spider-Man is having slightly unckempt. >> Me personally, I think the most relatable superhero is Hedgehog Man from X-Men 3. >> Well, yeah, that guy was wacky, wasn't he? >> Why is being relatable necessarily like make you better? Can't I like a character because they're not relatable? >> It makes you marketable. I like Dr. Manhattan because I >> You don't have to be relatable to be interesting. Yeah, it's true. >> Nope. >> If anything, less relatable is more interesting. >> Well, it can be. I don't know. >> Well, to to sort of rely on the observations uh from a long time ago. It depends. >> Like [laughter] interesting, but I'm not like genocidal. >> Oh, come on. >> You just haven't met You just haven't met the scrolls yet. I thought I wasn't genocidal when I [laughter] watched Secret I watch Secret Wars. And actually, it turns out I'm extremely genocidal. [laughter] >> I've always wanted to kill half the population. >> Yay. >> Directing isn't just about scale. It's about balance. And Destin absolutely elevates seemingly mandated material with that human touch. >> Stop talking about touch. Go away. >> We should [ __ ] detest and be ranting about a shoehorn scene where Peter has to strip down to talk to Elena in a bath house she calls her office. >> Take off your clothes. On paper, it reeks of the same disingenuous fanboy bait we've been subjected to. >> Oh, you are you really defending it now? You're like, on paper it don't work. But it's go. It does work when you watch the movie. >> You know what's so funny is that it's a uniquely bad one because it assassinates you. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. But nobody [ __ ] picks up on that [ __ ] cuz nobody knows the character. They pretend that they do. >> Unbelievable. I had to do this >> I had to do this with Misaria and House the Dragon. I [ __ ] hate that character. I was like, I don't like Yolena, but why am I the only one that has to go, hey guys, she was assassinated, by the way. >> He had a character in the first scene she was in, and then they got rid of it. >> High tub hated the scene, then he saw Tom's toes and was just like, "Okay, >> all right, this is wicked." [laughter] >> Y Zena's massive feet. >> Naked Florence feeling Tom Holland's toes in the same scene. 10 out of 10. >> So long. >> Some [ __ ] still trying to ice skate up. Peter, it's me. You remember? >> I'm Peter, but I'm not your Peter. What the hell is going >> Wait, sorry. These these are not the same. >> Absolutely not. >> So, so the first one was hit in the nuts of Human Torch, which is only a reference, and he gets his skin stripped off and that's it. >> And the second one was uh Why is my mind blanking? What was the second one? >> Ice skate uphill. >> Oh, yeah. Which is obviously just look, it's Blade. And then he said the line from the first Blade. This This is Sandman being like, what the hell is going on? Then he's like, I'm not the Peter P. And he's also helping him defend him from Electra. Like this, how is this the same >> character? We're doing character things. >> And then you're about to cuz clearly he's ramping up to defend the Elena one even though number one, it's incredibly weird that she would force him to strip down in order to talk to him about important stuff. That's really weird and creepy. Um, and then add on that that when she finds out that it's specifically the people that are sort of central to what Spider-Man's dealing with are sisters involved with mind control, which is exactly her history. She doesn't care. >> Bro, could you imagine if Bucky Barnes was like, "All right, you going to take him off?" What? We're getting naked for this. [laughter] >> Take them off. Get in the tub. If you want to talk to me, get naked in the tub with me. >> It's a [ __ ] annoying truth that this this movie would have lost a lot more points if people were willing to criticize it for that [ __ ] in that scene. It's just true. >> This is double >> Harvey Weinstein in this [ __ ] great point. >> It's a great point. >> They already know each other at this point. And as people are pointing out, why do we need to do her? >> He doesn't have a weapon, right? Because if he had a gun, he could kill her. It's not like he could just strangle her or punch her to death. >> He's Spider-Man. >> He's [ __ ] Spider-Man. >> And didn't they CGI like underwear because they realized it was Super It It seems like it. >> Apparently, they CG his mask in that scene as well. I haven't seen that confirmed, but I've seen speculation. >> I think the CG mask I think that is the case. You can see that it's tracking a bit awkwardly on his neck. >> Yeah, >> you can see that. I'll explain everything, but first, can you help me stop this guy? >> Okay. >> I'm sorry. That's like That's not even TJ. >> Oh, no. Is he about to [ __ ] about I'm something of a scientist myself? Just a nice fun cheeky little line that hurts nothing, harms nothing. >> It was prompted as well. I don't know. This is the thing. I don't even hate key. Well, this is a we usually treat key jangles as like completely >> unear jangles. >> Yeah. >> The key a key jangle is a is a reference made for malicious purposes. It's >> still getting >> is the Sandman one a key jangle? Why? Like >> I don't remember helping Spider-Man in Spider-Man 3 doesn't like isn't he kind of the final boss? I guess like >> I think I think he genuinely didn't know what to pick cuz this one is much more of an easy sell on this topic. But the Sandman saying, "Peter, what the [ __ ] is going on?" And then Peter being like, "I'm not your Peter, but I need you to help me stop this other guy." Like, that's just just a conversation. I don't even like Is everything a key jangle at this point? >> Just myself. >> But the way the moment flows here is great. It's actually funny. It's not annoying. >> What a what a surprise. The [ __ ] mega cringe is fine in this movie. >> And her cameo serves a purpose narratively. >> Yeah, it destroys a character. >> The destruction of her character. That's what that's so pretty cool. >> It's destruction of the character and then it's a forcing function because she her job is to say, "Oh, look, they've redacted all of the files, so here's all the information that they didn't redact." And then that moves the plot along. That's what she's there to do. >> And she tells Mo, it's not mind control, it's possession, cuz that's different, I guess. >> Well, and and reminding the audience about the red room history. And then when she finds out definitively it is actually mind control and it regards two sisters getting experimented on a [ __ ] synergistic like like opposite lateral move [ __ ] [snorts] organization in the government that she has to work with regularly. That is happening right now. She's like >> no. Yeah, small potatoes. >> Oh well. >> Is no longer offended he's not in the cool kids club. He doesn't need her to. >> He's literally in the cool kids club. >> He is in it. >> Why are you lying? He is in there. He gets to [ __ ] Skype call the leader of the Avengers. >> Please stop lying. What is wrong with you? >> This is what I mean though. Like like all of his rules he's having to bend and break the [ __ ] out of him. He's in the club. >> Offer him a membership. And she's perfect. Maybe the perfect fundamentally imperfect Avenger character. Throw herself into her work. Selfisolate and only find peace through True. >> They don't do any of that [ __ ] Shut up. >> Yeah. And none of this is in Brand New Day at all. >> Yeah. Those two, they are not the same character. They can't be the same character. You fell for the writing prop. >> It's crazy. But he's making this up. This isn't even remotely in the movie like, and it could have been. It could have been. They could have relied on this aspect of it. [ __ ] from Thunderbolts, but they don't. >> The reason why she's there is because she's funny dead pan Russian lady who that's like that's all that she is. >> Also, yes. That's when I refer to her as an Avenger. I'm obviously doing it with like relation to the [ __ ] labels they're dropping on these people in these movies. >> The new Avengers now in universe. >> She is an Avenger. Whatever. >> Desperately needs connection. And look, man, I was dreading the nerfing of Frank Castle. How do you take >> All right. Good luck. >> Good luck. Good [ __ ] >> Let's hear it. >> He goes up against Hulk. >> How we How we What do we They buff him like crazy and nerf Hulk. Well, they nerf his brain. >> Prove you're wrong. >> His eye gouging always about to pull the on himself Netflix character we spent 50 plus hours with and make him have a >> that Frank is long dead. I don't even know why you'd assume that he was going to be in this >> meaningful relationship with this Spider-Man. >> What relationship? >> There's none island. [ __ ] off. >> Yeah, they repeat. >> They allude to a relationship that happened elsewhere and off screen >> and then he's like, Spider-Man, you don't want to be alone. I'm alone. Like, right. Okay, >> by the way, you're a coward for wearing a mask. >> Also, you're not really really alone because you have your relationship with me. You also have your relationship with the friends you've already [ __ ] reestablished. You've also got the wolf. You've also got the DODC. You've also got the [ __ ] psyches to all of the Avengers whenever you want. You've also got your AI that you talk to all time. You [laughter] know, you're not really that alone actually. >> Also, can I Spider-Man be friends with the Punisher? Like, he kills people. >> It's like the worst pair up on this philosophical level. But >> his first appearance is the bad guy in the comic. >> You can differentiate it. >> Work with that by having them clash and dual. No, no, nah, no. Ah. >> Turns out the best way to do it is to just let the actors riff. Let them find the truth in the absurdity. >> Let them find the truth. >> Truth in the absurdity >> of the actors. It's like Ghostbusters. Just let them do their thing. >> Never. Never let actors riff. [laughter] >> Don't do it. >> Never again. >> Don't do it. No. >> Frank here is not only hilarious, >> not only the worst version of what Peter could be, >> he's hilarious for shooting Spider-Man point and blank as a joke. >> Was it just the worst version of what Peter could become? And yet punishes the only one willing to shoot that psycho [ __ ] which is the right thing to do. >> You should be shooting Tony Stark the waronger. just be rehashing what happened in No Way Home about sort of pushing him whether or not he would breach his kill rule like his no kill rule. No, that's recycling. You can't do that. We're not growing. >> He did it with Yeah, he did it with >> this movie. He could he could those those values the other Spider-Man taught him. He could that is his perspective now going up against Punisher which is like a different well I think I'm repeating >> oh god somebody's reminded me and in chat the the riffing on a level that's freaking sublime thank you thank you for reminding me that that's something that's >> the Sean Levy talking about Taikoiti >> that's the guy that's >> directing almost Ghost Rider guys it's what it's what is you deserve for Deadpool [laughter] Wolverine Love and Thunder probably should have been the hard stop on letting actors riff in comic book movies though, right? Like it was like, "Okay, maybe this is not a good idea." >> Yeah, the word freaking similar. [laughter] >> The act the actors were fake riffing in that Hugh Jackman Ryan Reynolds uh fake promotional thing. >> They're doing it outside the movies, >> but also a source of great emotion. My big fear was that they were going to waste John Burnernthal. >> What's up? >> It would be nice if they just wasted him. They ruined the character. >> Yeah. >> They find new ways to just humiliate and destroy. You got to love it. >> What the hell's going on? Fighting >> run his deeply raw performance as Frank Castle through the comedic spin cycle of regurgitated baos dish water. >> Yeah, that's what happens. >> That is what they do. >> That's what they do in this. >> Like to be clear, this [ __ ] is like an alien talking about the movie. We have a moment where a mindwashed brain controlling [ __ ] gets into his head, Frank Castles, >> and goes, "This guy's got a lot of issues." >> Hilarious. >> But no, it's all taken very seriously. All of his history, all of his trauma, 100%. >> Very Leaving an empty shell of a character left for us to chuckle at. >> I don't This is a joke. This is what happens. >> That just happened. his wife and child being murdered and that haunting his dreams. >> They flanderized punishers. >> Hardcore. Yeah, but to be fair, this wasn't the first one to do it. It's just good god, there's nothing left. >> What's going on? >> And yeah, is it a little weird that Peter is buddy buddy with a mass murdering? >> Go on. Excuse it. Excuse it. Go on. This is your favorite movie now. Excuse it. >> Is he going to >> He's also Yeah, but whatever cuz it's fun. >> Let's see what he says. >> Yeah. Do I think that Netflix Frank would be far to shoot a teenage girl that it's just Yeah. Yeah, he's doing it. I knew it. >> Even said he doesn't think that Frank should have taken the shot on the teenage girl. But what if the teenage girl is killing everyone? >> Yeah. >> Jean is doing the thing that Professor X does in Logan that presumably kills all the X-Men and almost kills a whole bunch of people in the middle of the movie, too. take away from the tangible chemistry and joy I felt watching them share the screen. >> So it didn't take away >> I like their funny banter. I like the Staten Island reference very probably does actually breach his character though. >> Yeah. >> But that's really about a movie. Really? >> I really like the parts where Spider-Man keeps telling Frank to not kill anyone and then saves the mass murdering super psycho [ __ ] That's cool. Yeah, but he does that after telling her that she hasn't killed anyone. So, he's just fundamentally confused. >> You're not a killer after you killed everybody. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Just a little bit of killing. >> Like when when Vinnie Right when Vinnie says it in Atlantis, >> but hey, didn't they didn't they say that he technically didn't kill anyone, which I [ __ ] hilarious. >> All the writers confirm she didn't kill anyone. So, >> technically, >> it's the brilliant thing from [ __ ] the nice guys like you're not a killer. It's like she just she just said she killed three people. >> Yeah, but like deep down [laughter] deep down >> deep down deep. >> What the [ __ ] >> Deep down you're not. Yeah, it's exactly >> what happened, Shane Black. >> Well, let him make his own [ __ ] I guess. >> I know. [laughter] >> All right, we're halfway through the video now. >> Get ready for another four. >> It's got anytime, [laughter] >> Jean Gray. Anytime. >> We're going real fast, I suppose. Uh, by the way, I don't want to I don't want to ruin your whole life, Nick. If you if you'd like to go, I know you're weary. I know you're dying. >> You can go, man. It's fine. >> Oh [ __ ] >> We don't think you're any less of a man if you don't want to be here at 5 in the morning talking about >> your endurance is I just want you to know it's not you. It's High Top Films. [laughter] >> You have the endurance of Spider-Man. It's like you were touched by [ __ ] himself. >> Oh [laughter] no. >> Touched by Cret. >> Touched by. >> All right. Thank you guys for having me. >> Absolutely, dude. We'll catch you right now. >> Oh, yes. Yes, I will. >> You need to You need to save your strength to finish. >> The Lord of Ring commands you to finish Golem. >> Then you can lock balls. >> Wait, the second cart sequence. >> But what now? Okay. Bye, guys. >> See you later, man. >> Well, then onward. >> No guarantees. >> That moment in the hospital at the end, dude. The genuine smile on Peter's face, on Frank's face, the laughter, >> dude. Perfect. I was emotional. >> I just find it funny. >> That was just the actors who they like each other. That's all that was. >> Spider-Man is happier than ever. And uh Hightops doesn't tend to enjoy that [ __ ] At least you'd think that from all of his assessments, but no, he's not only happier than ever, more at peace than ever, he gets an appraised fandom surrounding him, celebrating him, specifically him. I just feel like with everything we've covered with HighTop, that he'd say something along the lines of, "Nah, Spider-Man doesn't get to have that. Not that explicitly. Not in that context, but uh no, >> they needed him to be miserable every time and someone needs to >> That's what I thought." >> Yeah. Even Mark Ruffalo, who has not been allowed to like actually be real since the first Avengers >> my secret agent Roman off. You want to know how I stay calm? >> Dude, >> he's just like like the the his appearance in this movie is like the perfect encapsulation of what they've been doing with the Hulk. It's like, hey, here I am, Mark Ruffalo. Hello. This time I have suppressed the Hulk. Oh, damn it. Someone controlled my brain. Now I have to kill everybody. Oh, that's really sad. Anyway, I'm getting stressed out now, never to be seen again. >> It's [ __ ] crazy to me. >> If I'm lucky, I will be referenced. >> You have this panicked, disheveled, like horrified, did I kill people? Bruce Banner getting ced away. And they have a shot where they just show Spider-Man sitting there standing there like the the cuck guy being like, "Oh jeez, [laughter] that's no good. I hope he makes it out of that haunting situation. >> I'm your friend." Peter's like, "I I don't actually have no idea who you are." I actually rewatched that scene just a couple of days ago. You know, the only person in the entire movie who actually acknowledges what happens to Bruce is Ned. It's [ __ ] Ned. >> [ __ ] Ned. [laughter] >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Nobody else gives a [ __ ] about the guy who saved the universe. >> Ned. >> Insane disrespect. >> Gets to be authent. >> By the way, she jumps into Bruce Bannard Hulk's head and once again doesn't really feel much of anything. The fact that those two's trauma in history means nothing to Jean Gray is such an embarrassment. >> Especially when in the case of Hulk, you're talking about a dude who like saved literally like basically an an incalculable number of lives. >> No appreciation, just abuse. >> Authentic here. I love how Peter isn't just Mr. Bannering him. Peter knows what he's talking about and is seeking guidance. He can keep up with >> his [ __ ] Spider-Man. Sorry, [clears throat] [laughter] just so stupid. He could have gone as like, "Hey, I have this mutation. You know about mutation stuff. Can you help me? I have this crazy power that essentially has the potential to [ __ ] kill everybody if I can't control it." But no, let me go there as a student that I'm not actually um and just get figured out immediately. You could also [ __ ] tell him there's a mind controlling [ __ ] out there. Maybe be careful that she doesn't get to you. But no, we're not. >> I do enjoy that as a point though that is made. Wow. It was really annoying how when Peter Parker was like 15 years old, he referred to like an adult as Mr. Stark. Like, wow. That was >> respect for his mentor. That's [ __ ] nuts, dude. >> Yeah. >> Lingo and yet make his own choice without needing to consult. I love that. >> What are you talking about? All he does is consult through the whole [ __ ] movie. I can't How do you How do you get away with giving the inhibitors to the government? How hightop, how did you allow this to happen? that maybe finally, hopefully forever, we got rid of Professor Give Me a Dab so I can stomach one of the great actors memeing for $10 million Hulk and we got the true Hulk back. However brief. >> True Hulk, >> whatever. >> Is that the true Hulk? >> Hulk controlled by Jean Gray. I don't think so. >> Well, even then after she leaves his mind >> and then like he continues to fight as true Hulk. >> Was Banner controlled by the >> overpowered Spider-Man and Spider-Man says, "No, I'm your friend Peter." And then he's like, "Oh, I guess you are. I remember that." out even though I can't cuz there's a [ __ ] spell. And then he drops off a building and collapses. >> It was nice. I felt things. >> Damn. >> I don't know if it's just me, but I love thinking that Hulk, not Bruce Banner, recognized Peter Parker and somehow wasn't affected by >> Peter says, "Bruce, I'm your friend, Peter." >> This is really funny. when they do not share a scene with each other on screen ever >> except the funeral. They are on screen together. >> Except the funeral. Yes. Ex. But like I I don't think there is a single there is not a single scene where Peter Parker or Spider-Man says anything to Bruce Banner >> or the Hulk. Me even if they did exchange words that's still a stretch. Like exactly treating them as like two individual people like that doesn't it doesn't work for me. >> So Chad, is everything working? >> I think so. Can you hear me? >> Oh my god. Yes, it is. >> Yes, we can hear you. >> Ah, it's good to be here fellas. How are you? >> Good. How are you? We got some bad news, buddy. You're going to have to join us. Uh, we're checking out some brand new day stuff. I've heard you quite love this movie, so you're going to have to build up some defenses for it. film. >> Who told you that? Slam. >> We can pause even more. It'll be so fun >> on this show. >> My god. >> We're just listening about how well handled The Punisher and Hulk were. We're still waiting for him to talk about Gan Gray. Still hasn't. We're this far. [laughter] >> Very curious. >> Yeah, I've been listening in. There's a There's a decent amount of desperate cope going on, but >> Oh, yeah. This one's rough. this one. Well, but it has to be it has to be desperate. >> Defend this non- desperately. >> Doctor Strange spell. >> First of all, that's horrible. >> I love that this beast and entity within banner recognizes this young man as someone he briefly fought alongside. >> He didn't. So, so that's the particular battle is that >> Hulk is very dead in this movie. He does not exist in Endgame. >> Yeah. He's not even like a dormant element in any way, shape, or form. The the argument the the undoing of it is borderlining on retcon, but it's not like he's already said most people are not going to complain because Professor Hulk has been a [ __ ] nightmare. But that is who he is in this movie as in this movie as in as in Endgame. >> He's saying like Redard Kipling and Adolf Hitler were in the same battle of the S or something. So they should be >> It's ridiculous. Everyone has had to read into the scene where Hulk backs off after she says it's Peter because everyone's like, "Wait a minute, that shouldn't mean anything." So, we got to start inventing [ __ ] >> Well, they used to have to work up to the thing where Natasha was like the special person in his life who could actually calm him down. And that was a special relationship thing that they had, you know, kind of tried to establish before they decided that they were just going to cut that entirely, I guess. >> Am I crazy? If they just had him say, "Please don't kill me." That probably would have just been better. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, it's more vulnerable and the Hulk can react to that. He doesn't need you to say Peter cuz what the [ __ ] is Peter to him? >> No one really hate that. >> Well, because even in the final battle of Endgame, it's been a while since I've seen it, but isn't Hulk incapacitated because the action of him snapping is what brings Peter back to life? So, they're not really even fighting at the same time in that battle, right? Am I missing something? And I think you're right. Been a while. >> Savage Hulk is great because of course Peter needs to see what someone who lives with an entirely different kind of monster in his blood goes through. >> Yeah. What they go through when someone abuses them. >> Someone mind controls them. Like what what are we doing? Talk about Jean, you coward. >> The extreme. It's a really good example of how like confused the movie's overall theme is because Bruce has a couple of lines and Gan Gray has a couple of lines where they both demonstrate almost like advanced knowledge of what like Peter's ultimate mutation is going to be and that he's going to be fine with it. So Bruce says when they're discussing the inhibitor, how do you know what's good in nature and what's bad? How do you know you're not suppressing something that needs to be expressed? Which is a lesson that does apply. He can't know yet, but you know, the movie knows already. That does apply to Peter. Absolutely doesn't apply to him though >> in any way. >> And so, >> at this point, I wouldn't even say it applies to Peter because all we've seen is that he goes haywire and almost kills someone. >> Yeah, but at the end of the movie, remember, he says, "I'll be both then, and then that's enough." And now he can just control both. So, he's >> my counter point. [laughter] That's [ __ ] though. >> That's like your opinion, bro. Banner feels after an episode. The fear just like Pete had when he nearly killed that cop. The genuine terror that >> comparable whatever. >> Was that even Peter though? >> Insane. >> Who knows? Who can even say? >> Yeah. By the way, I like how that part of the film just kind of they just decided we're done with it and actually he's totally fine and he's good. Don't worry about it. >> Yep. Yeah. >> Everything's a okay. Also, I mean, if I like if I'm driving that cop car, I'm slowing down when I see the superhero fighting the super villain. I'm not I'm not going to try to drive past that as if nothing bad could happen. >> Inside that will take the life they both swore to protect. My point is, this is how you make cameo slop not feel like cameo slop. You make >> I dare you to show an image of Andrew Garfield or to Tom Spider-Man as examples of bad slop. Do it. Do it. He just admitted that he thinks it's cameo slop. >> I was just going to say that. Yeah, that is the implication. Yeah. >> Well, he defended the use of Yolena and that is absolutely cameo slop. It almost provides no function at all in the movie. >> You had to kind of makeally designed to ruin her. >> Jangle Yolena. This is great. [laughter] >> Everyone served not just a plot purpose but a narrative purpose. >> Good god. The plot purpose for you later is just like Max, that's a word that come up. Yep. Anyway, bye. >> Take off your clothes. >> Peter's AI couldn't figure that out. He has his own pal. >> That's what I mean. He has four different sources of information. He doesn't have to figure anything out himself cuz he's too busy stalking his old friends. >> When he later plot purpose, but a narrative purpose. >> Yeah. >> Well, those two things. He probably wanted to say like a character reflective or like a theme purpose >> like I mean but I mean to the point that's being raised here probably should have said that rather than using two terms that could maybe be viewed as potentially interchangeable. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> As high top does. He only said two instead of three though. >> That's true. He didn't say three. >> New York feel like a lived in place where Punisher is driving his murder van a few blocks down for where >> Yeah. Murder van where he blows [ __ ] up all over the place, but then he can just casually walk into a hospital consequence free. No one cares. >> Yep. >> Banner is trying to keep the beast inside. >> How do you talk about this and not bring up Jean Gray abusing the [ __ ] out of this guy? [clears throat] >> Yeah, my mind my mind went different area of like, oh yeah, New York feels lived in. Kind of like how it doesn't deal with the consequences of the most recent MCU storyline that takes place in New York, Dead Born Again. He goes, he says he's like, "Oh, he's using this inhibitor to try to keep the beast inside." It's like, "Yeah, but like two sections before, not sections, two like movies or shows before, he was just he just had them under control like they were chill with each other." And then She-Hulk comes around like, "I have this inhibitor now." And you're like, "Why? I thought you guys were chill. What happened to Smart Hulk? Is that not a thing anymore?" Cuz now it just kind of seems like Bruce was like, "I don't like being green anymore. I'm going to put this [ __ ] inhibitor on me. [ __ ] off, Hulk." It feels like a lived in Marvel universe. >> I was just going to say born again, I guess, does make it make a little bit more sense that he doesn't go to Matt Murdoch for help. And it still doesn't make sense that he goes to Punisher. >> What what I what I mean is that um you've got the big problem, which is that like Spider-Man's absence in Daredevil is inexplicable. Yeah. And conversely, this film's failure to acknowledge that that period where like New York turned into a fascist dictatorship under Fisk would have absolutely had an impact on his activities as Spider-Man are now illegal. >> Like it's funny to say it's lived in. New York feels less lived than ever because of the fact that these are all I mean, you know, bear in mind we forget about it, but like the Punisher had this big plot where just like an era of New York turned into like an like basically a war zone. Like that was what happened in um in the Punisher special was that a whole area just descended into absolute abject anarchy. Where was Spider-Man? Why isn't that relevant here? It's because none of this stuff is like it's not lived in. You can say it all you want, but in meaningful ways >> there is limited and no intera. I mean, how do we square away that this is in the New York where thunderbolts happened? Where a significant amount of people in Manhattan got teleported the shadow dimension. >> Did that happen to Spider-Man? Did that happen to Punisher? Why isn't that getting brought up? >> Also, Kingpin absolutely is a Spider-Man villain as well. There's plenty of stories for Spider-Man. thing as well. He is a Spider-Man. He is as you know, he's a Spider-Man and Daredevil character. So, there's really no reason on a meta front for that lack of acknowledgement either. It's just [clears throat] kind of he's just what he's saying here is just not true. >> It just gets also weird when we start implementing other heroes from other movies in non-Avengers movies. Like, oh, so you can team up when there's no Avenger movie or crossover movie. So, why not doing this all the time? There's like 7 million superheroes now. You should get help each other like all the time. You have all these resources. Like all all the the super villains should be [ __ ] essentially with all the network king. >> You should stand a chance. I would be terrified to be a villain. I it would be like the first 10 minutes of the Batman. [laughter] >> That's always kind of been the big shared universe problem, right? Like if you ever do solo movies, you have to then give the audience a reason why this person isn't just asking the more powerful heroes that they know for help. And I don't know, it's why I think superhero movies tend to actually function better when it's just the X-Men exists in a world where the only superheroes are the X-Men. Spider-Man exists in a world where the only superhero is Spider-Man. Like those tend to result in better movies. >> It's tough to manage a lot now though. and then try to do this localized threat stuff with like New York is like seems like the main focus of everything currently in the MCU while there's still a [ __ ] Leviathan Titan thing in the sea somewhere that people were like I'm going to mine that for stuff like >> potatoes >> mind control villain small potato. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Where anything is possible in the best and only authentic way that leaves you excited for who Peter could share a scene with. Well, >> what? Why? You don't have to say best and only. I I think the only negates best having to be needed to be said. >> It's also the worst at that point. I'm also just amused by like, oh, he's could be sharing a scene with Daredevil anytime now. I was like, yeah, not with the [ __ ] numbers that born again pulling. >> He's in jail. >> Lines were like Frank could have even said, why don't you just go to Matt for this? He could be like, he's in prison. >> Yeah. Well, I maybe you don't say that because you're like, why aren't you helping him, Frank? >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Instead of dreading what poor [ __ ] they will drag onto the set next. >> I'm I'm I'm just so amused. You use visuals from the movie you keep trying to desperately destroy when they do it in the movie you try to [ __ ] hold up right now. You already admitted that they do. >> And look, I've never bought into his relationship with MJ. I've been vocal about that. >> Please don't tell me this is the movie that works for you. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. >> Their relationship works when it's unrequited and she rejects him and >> they don't know. >> He's going to say he loved it. He's so desperate to try and validate anything in this film. So, it's >> I just think MJ Net shouldn't just even be in this movie. It should be like the new thing. He's been doing stuff. >> They should not be present. >> But nope, he's stalking them for four years and then they just get back. >> Got to recapture the first movie, second movie, third. >> It up like each other. We get it. There's no new ground [music] being broken. >> That's not the fault of Tom or Zenaia. That's the fault of whatever clown decided the way to make a compelling relationship between arguably the most famous comic book couple was to have Peter start crushing on the girl who had three lines in the >> You're not going to get far with this. They turn him into a stalker. So, what do you how is it better? >> I need to know how it's better. >> The first movie, >> we have a [ __ ] section on how the home trilogy sucks balls, but when we get to Brand New Day, like how you going to do this? >> My friends call me MJ. >> Offcreen. I really like MJ, man. Okay. But here, even if I really do wish that MJ had more to do, had more interest and passions that are unique to >> Oh, so yeah, she's not a character in the movie. Just so we're clear, she's barely even got like her own actionable interests and autonomy. She is screwed by the story lines that only matter in terms of theme. So, at least he's picked up on it, but it's still better somehow. >> Her that aren't just being able to out science Peter or Ned. >> What? But she does. Yeah, >> she figures it all out very quickly. >> Very quickly. Ridiculously quickly. You might even say he and his AI should quickly figure out [laughter] >> she's smarter than an AI. A space AI >> because of the major >> space age science fiction mass effect AI. >> She she's the one that facilitates the creation of the Sentinels. Okay, that's what [laughter] we're probably looking at. I just >> MJ no way he out science sciences him is like that actually kind of destroys Peter cuz he he is aware of the thing that might have some interference in his head. It's like oh it's way too small to do anything. It's like dude you've been trying to fix this the whole time. Don't you at least want to try to put that in your equation maybe? No. porn. >> I think that the palpable yearning that Peter has >> stalking, stalking, stalking >> retroactively makes me feel more for these two. What >> was good? >> This man >> their love I ever had before. That moment on the roof when he believes she remembers everything is so >> Yeah. All the stuff you said didn't matter and didn't you didn't care about [laughter] like what are we doing? a good opportunity to finally talk about how Jean is a psycho horrible monster. >> You kind of have to, don't you? At this point, [clears throat] >> does the double rape >> the rare double rape [laughter] >> a rare double rape. >> Holland acts his ass off. He grips and holds on to her touch like it's all he's ever dreamt of. Stops talking music [laughter] in real life. It cannot be meaningful without the John Watts films. Sorry. >> He's literally he's citing them as why. [laughter] So I don't understand. >> Yeah, the John Watts films. >> I didn't actually care about them, but now that this movie exists, I care about it, but it doesn't earn those films any favor. >> Insane work. >> All he has to keep going, and you can feel the utter pain betrayal when he realizes it's >> Oh my god. Is this a like a negative HP? Overly dramatic mind readings are killing me with cringe. [laughter] >> I don't know. >> It strikes me as manipulative. >> Oh, he's mega manipulative on this [ __ ] dude. >> See, you've like >> you've got to [laughter] feel the way I feel. So, I'M GOING TO REALLY MAKE YOU SOUND SO EMOTIONAL ABOUT IT. >> You should agree with me because of the way I'm reading these lines, you guys. >> That's too energetic. >> It's authentic. It's authentic damage. He's relatable. >> So funny. When I first watched that scene, I was like, "Oh god, he she actually just broke the spell immediately. That's insane." And then we get the reveal. And I was like, "Oh [ __ ] that is actually might be a worse outcome now." [laughter] Just >> all of that was worse than I thought is kind of the like the theme of the MCU at this point. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Twisted game that Jean is playing. And >> oh, mention of Jean. We got a Gene mention. Jean has been mentioned. choice, which I really, really hope they stick with for a while. >> They finally >> Oh, wait. I was going to say >> choices. >> I really hope they stick with for a while. Well, if you watch the last scene where they pretend he he can't have can't have MJ have Ned, even though they're [ __ ] flat mates, and they're just going to hang out with each other. >> I [ __ ] guarantee you next time we see them, they're just going to hang out. She broke up with her her boyfriend that she doesn't like that much anyway. Yeah, just gonna hang out. That's obviously where they're leading partly because of that scene and partly because you have that one of the last parts of the movie is where she's standing sitting on the roof at at sunrise and he's sitting on another roof at sunrise and they're like juaposed together. So it's like, oh, okay, it's a brand new day. There's a new possibility rising with the [ __ ] sun. But the rule established in this scene doesn't even last another two scenes >> cuz I'm assuming what he's going to praise here is, oh no, she just doesn't remember anything about him. So but Bruce does, Hulk does, Ned does by the end of the film. I know she does as well. >> And and that scene where uh it's like, "Oh, I don't even like him that much anyway." It's just to facilitate the shipping culture because YA fanfic has to infest everything so all of the teenage girls watching Spider-Man can be like, "Oh my god, I want them to get together." [laughter] That's like every fan of this movie. And it's awful. >> And it ruined Arcane. It'll ruin other things. You know, you could maybe introduce Felicia Hardy and have the tension come from the other direction where it's like, "Oh, >> imagine if we had some story romance. That'd be great." Story in my movies. Nuh-uh. >> Not immediately remember. Not immediately be in love with Peter again is played so well. I love the maturity of which that scene is directed. The confidence. No music. >> You're not saying anything. Say actual things. >> Movie music playing now. [laughter] >> I mean, the horrible movie >> is setting up Jean Gray to be a horrific monster. Yeah, get back to Jean. You mentioned it extremely briefly there, Mr. Tom. >> That's why we're here. >> No need for a stupid joke mid scene. It was >> Oh, whatever. You have to like He can't [ __ ] res. This video would be a minute long if he couldn't reference the Home Trilogy. >> At the beginning of the video, he praised Spider-Man for making quips again. What are you talking about? >> No, this was mature and brilliant. >> Everyone in my theater was so locked in that you could hear a pin drop. You mean everything to me. >> That should be normal cuz they were bored or it was empty. [laughter] >> Old man was asleep. I'm afraid >> I wonder pin drop. But then I looked around the theater was empty. >> They were like, "Oh, it's a Zia scene. I should go to the bathroom now. >> Time to take a scene that Tom Holland was talking about right here." >> Well, we were shooting this scene and I said to her, I said, "Do you think that this scene is working?" And she was like, "I don't think this scene is working at all. Like what we're supposed to feel, we're not feeling it. We're going to sit down and we're going to rewrite this scene. >> It has a pretty good British accent. We came in the next day. We reshot the scene and I'm so glad that we did because it sings in the movie. >> I love the >> What does that have to do with >> Oh, so now I want to see the one before the rewrite. >> I I think he said he doesn't he was he wasn't sure, but he's he's assuming it was the one on the rooftop, but I guess we don't even know. >> Zenaia brought on who I believe to be the film's secret hero, Justin Kuritzk. >> Oh, here we go. >> aka the dude who wrote Challengers, aka >> [ __ ] number three. Let's see. Yes, certified beef moment. >> I just want to thank >> It's like I don't know who you are anymore, Jimmy. >> Because seemingly you take a very >> We love that guy because >> generic messy cameocentric plot that feels like something the writers of the home trilogy would have cooked up. >> Peter 3. Sure. [laughter] >> But >> is he just saying that because of No Way Home, there was no there was nothing like cameoesque at all in the first two movies. They were very integral and central to the plot and theme and they were executed respectively. >> In No Way Home they weren't >> in No Way Home they weren't key jangles but you could at least for seeing it that way in the first two that there's nothing like that just trying to deal with those movies. >> Happy Hogan I guess is in both of them. >> I think I think this might just be the happy jangle. This is this is just trying to drag those movies down. Brand New Day was written by like the same writers that made the that wrote the uh the other ones. >> The beefy guy, the king. >> Okay, now >> yeah, they wrote they wrote all the other ones. So it is irreconcile whereas of course in my case I mean clearly John Watts was like the instrumental factor. I mean I I don't know what to conclude other than that. >> Neil Duckman did write the first Last of Us but he did have Bruce Staley for that one. >> He did and then when he didn't Yeah. Yeah, there was also >> this one has Kingman in it now. Guy with King King hat. >> I'm curious what uh Tom and Zenia thought didn't work about that scene. And maybe after they realized it wasn't working, that's when they decided to throw in the element of Jean. >> Well, essentially being in >> We don't know that that's the scene they were talking about. Even Hightop said he doesn't know. >> Yeah, we don't actually know. >> Yeah. >> Oh, really? >> That plot with so much character and so much heart. >> He keeps showing that visual that's not in the movie, by the way. the one washing his suit. That's not in the movie. >> Yeah, he's showed it almost 10 times at this point. >> Unless it's not in the opening montage, is it? Cuz I don't remember that shot. >> Doing the dry is in the opening montage. Is there a city? >> Yes. >> What are the shots that didn't make? Cuz I know that people complained there was a bunch that didn't make it in. I thought that was one of them. >> I mean, nothing jumps out at the moment. Well, in any case, >> MJ being kind enough, curious enough to invite Peter upstairs to meet Ned could be and would have been played purely for laughs. >> One out there is not >> what >> what is the evidence for that assertion? >> Is that scene not >> him meeting Ned again is the Zinger joke at the end of the first trailer? >> Well, I just couldn't help but be screaming the entire time, "No, decline the offer. Do not go see Ned. You're already in too deep. shouldn't even be here to begin with. >> Yeah, this was like they actually do they do the same joke uh they do the same joke from that was in Homecoming with the Death Star. He drops the phone >> in Homecoming. He drops So it's it's actually like a very similar joke except it's less dynamic because of Death Star Lego Death Star that's really hard to build. Shattering is a lot more interesting than just dropping your phone on the ground. >> He he also said, "Oh, there was no joke or a punchline after this emotional scene." But after she tells him, "No, [ __ ] you. I don't love you anymore. Oh, by the way, I don't know how to get home. can you get me home? And when I saw the scene, it's like, oh, they're just going to cut away and then we're going to move on. It's like, no, she's going to invite him up. And he's like, oh yeah, sure. I'd love to hang out with my old friends. I stalked for 4 years. And then they just hang out for I don't know how long. >> Then he says, uh, this is like the best time I've had in years. But you you're only here because you went back on that thing you did. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which find your life for those years to protect these people. You've put them in grave danger. That's the reason you're here. How is this the best time you've had? I don't have to do this alone. It's like, yeah, but you chose to do this mostly alone in your little flat up there, or big flat, I should say. You could have just, you know, made new friends in like university instead of being like a lonely loser that stalks his old friends. >> At least he made the decision to save those particular people. And that could you I mean, I know keep on bringing up Felicia Hardy. I'm sorry. I'm kind of a Black Cat fan, I guess. But like maybe having a person that could be in his life who also does have superpowers and he could maybe feel a bit less bad about putting her in danger cuz she's in danger anyways. That might have been an interesting dynamic. >> Yeah. I I I feel like the best use of Felicia Hardy is if he is actively in a relationship with Mary Jane that's turbulent and then he comes across Black Cat in his superhero outings >> and he's like, "Holy [ __ ] you're better than her in every imaginable way. We should get together." >> Yeah. So, I I don't know how I feel about introducing Felicia Hardy in a situation where MJ is not a part of his life, but I mean, you could do still do something with Felicia Hardy there or just something else >> like like we were brought up before, it feels like a lot of this is just dialing back >> what the consequences of No Way Home where he's just like, "No, I don't like this. I'm going to make friends with them again." Like, >> we want to go back to the way things used to be. We don't want to do anything new. we would get back to that status quo. >> The scene I was thinking of, by the way, is the Do you remember the the one reason like a hospital with kids and stuff? >> I think he's getting like an um a vaccine or something because that wasn't in the movie. I'm pretty sure that's not in the opening. >> The NATO breaks cuz >> Yeah, but the all the stuff >> and then um I don't I don't think it was in the promotional stuff, but the the clear scene didn't make it in either, right? But we know it ex I think Rosario Dawson confirmed that that existed at some point >> and she did shoot something. Yeah, >> she was >> which would have helped >> but it made more sense for the ending. >> I mean a whole bunch of the stuff that does make it in is so heavily recontextualized. So I think it's the first trailer which is where you get the dumb [ __ ] inside the helmet shop with the helmet that he isn't actually wearing cuz it's a skin tie thing but never the [ __ ] mind. Like that in the trailer is played so somber. He's watching his phone. He's seeing these memories he's not a part of anymore. He drops off. You cut into the mask. There's no music and the entire thing is there to tell you this guy is miserable, defeated, and depressed. Then you watch the movie version and he leaps off a roof and he whoops very happily. And then he carries on whooping his way down the streets and he's very, very happy. And then they recontextualize the inside the mask shot to just be, okay, this is like him dialing in. At this point, the trailer shot is actually way more effective at telling you what his mental state is supposed to be cuz the movie added in a bunch of his voice lines where he sounds way too cheerful, >> right? >> Oh, I need today. >> But here, the way it's directed, the way the dialogue is written, it's deeply tragic, man. When Peter says this is the most fun he's had in years, we know he means it. There's not an hour. >> Yeah. He spent his last few years consciously being a depressed loner who's stalking his old friends. >> It's also just weird, man. He's having so much fun with his friends while the guy who saved the universe is getting cotted off by the police to a psychiatric ward because of events that he understands and does nothing about. That's just weird to me. >> It's me, Peter, your friend. Now get the [ __ ] out of my movie. >> Pretty much no room for him. >> To it. >> Yep. We did the Hulk thing. Off you go. >> Like the most fun I've had in years. I really missed you guys. >> Did you stop showing scenes from the films you said that didn't mean anything to you? Doesn't >> make any [ __ ] sense. I'm not going to lie. I may have shed a few tears, which is absolutely [ __ ] >> Oh, well, credit goes to John Watts. Eh, [laughter] >> he already he already cried in the opening montage. >> He's crying a bunch in his >> Sounds like he's crying through most of this video. >> He may have to tears at any point in this movie. >> I have detested nearly every single Ned scene for the past decade. Yeah, it doesn't really make any sense, does it, bro? If you were being consistent on this, you'd be like, "Sorry, Ned is just [ __ ] annoying. I still don't want to like suddenly recontextualize everything and say, you know what? It's actually brand new day that made all those scenes work for me now." >> Oh, great. It's just some random guy. >> Yeah. I just I didn't like Ned and then I saw that mobile game advertisers and like, you know what, Neds are all a sudden Ned's Ned's growing on me. >> Yeah. >> All of a sudden. >> Crazy man. >> Thank you, Mr. Cape. Sir, [screaming] >> my fault. I really hope they bring Justin back as the solo writer for Spider-Man 5 because if I had to guess, the moments that shine in this film were penned and recrafted by him. >> That's weird, man. >> How nice clue. >> Nice for you. >> Come up with that. >> Also penned. >> I miss penned, bro. >> What if he typed it? What made this movie great is when the actors just rift but also this guy should write the movie entirely. Like what do you think? What's your opinion actually? >> Mhm. >> Destiny. >> I hate when they use that term in headlines. Like this guy has been hired to pen the script. Like >> [ __ ] off. >> Wait. It makes sense in headlines though because it's less letters than write. >> True. It's true. Pen is more letters than typed. Damn. Is it actually? Wait, am I wrong about that? >> Well, saying you type the script sounds lame, even though that's what most people do. >> Pend is two M's, so it' be one letter longer. >> Yeah, pend would be >> Yeah, you can just you just count them and compare. [laughter] >> Wait, how do you do that? >> You would have to do like a mathematical algorithm. You just >> I need to get my my friendly helper AI lady to do it for me. Hang on. >> I was going in my head. >> Count the [laughter] letters. The brand new day is taking service. >> Oh, sorry. I got tricked. Where the [ __ ] is the Jean conversation? >> What's going on? >> We still got We still got like six minutes. Maybe it's like uh I would two minute outro if he mentions the ad again. >> Bring bring me Jean. >> Sounding McGuffin like completely >> VMAX is gene related. Let's do it. >> Believe there's an actual device. Some kind of infinity stone. Adamantium vibranium. [ __ ] him in. >> Oh, don't show that shot. You didn't even like that movie. >> Also, I'm sorry. All of those things make a lot more sense and have more impact than [ __ ] V-Max. It was a vent >> into something so simple yet entirely meaningful. >> Talk about it. >> Isn't that a Is that a clip from Stranger Things? >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> GMA isn't some >> specifically clip of Stranger Things >> isn't a cure all or a weapon of doom. It's a torn look. >> Why the [ __ ] would it be? What are we doing? >> Logo of an air duck that Gan Gray's sister was forced to stare at, to look up at while she was experimented on, tortured. Perhaps that duck to account and atone for his sins of mind raping and destiny [laughter] >> your mind crime >> escape the sliver of hope for Sarah that she could be free and the sliver of hope for Jean that she wasn't entirely alone in this world >> showing Stranger Things footage when you're talking about Jean. [laughter] It's very strange especially because he's saying Jean, right? So it's not like he's trying to hide spoilers. Yeah, movie. Spider-Man doesn't just fight ninjas because it looks cool. He not only drops [laughter] that is the reason, it actually is only that. He doesn't fight the hand. He fights Jean mind control. >> Remember >> also why is he bringing this up now? >> This is Captain I'm obsessed with Spider-Man and Daredevil and he's Are you genuinely telling us the hand were properly implemented in this film? >> Not in No Way Home. Are you [ __ ] kidding me? >> No way home. Those were just >> Deadvil is like his favorite show and he's just like, "Yeah, and the hand are here. They're just kind of here." Spider-Man beat him off screen even though they were already defeated before. And it's not even a fight with the hand. It's a fight with Gene mind controlling a bunch of them. >> They're actually victims in this situation. The hand the hand is redeemed by Meza who continues to be a hero even though the film hates him. Says, "I just realized that they were kids without a leader so I gave them a job and now they're good." >> We were just talking about God. What the [ __ ] Why? What happened? >> Well, I think this is I think this is to say it wasn't just it wasn't just a cool fight scene. It was because Jean's controlling them, so it's plot relevant. >> The Foot Clan and Ninja Turtles who are a parody of the hand are more serious than the hand are in this film. >> Yeah, >> the hand aren't anything in this film. They just >> aren't anything. Like to call them the hand is like an insult. >> It's literally trailer bait. It was so they could get the trailer >> just like Scorpion. I just want to attack. >> He also shouldn't need his ne super new powers to beat them. He already beat them offcreen once and now they're just not they're not even the hand. They're just gene controlling the hand. So >> surely worse and they get worse weaker. Yeah. You think >> cuz she doesn't like cuz they're the trained ninjas and she's some [ __ ] So there's no way that the hand should be deadlier. >> Same thing. >> Also she she's just controlling like a dozen people and she has to be like standing around the corner, right? Wait, how does that old granny know how to drive an APC? >> Oh, >> she possessed someone who did and then she possessed the granny and used the memories of the person who did. You control it through the granny. It makes complet >> Why would you endanger the grandma? >> It makes sense. >> She's evil. We can't >> We talked about this in the Spider-Man thing. The whole >> shocking reveal at the beginning. >> That's exactly it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If she didn't tend to kill people, the grandmother might not have survived the journey to >> Oh, she's dead as [ __ ] seven places. >> None of her ribs are where they're supposed to be after all that. >> There was a bomb in there. Yeah. >> To blow up. [laughter] >> Dean Gray's plan was to deatomize that grandmother with that explosive. >> Bruce Wayne and Batman. Not because I have to be, because I choose to be. >> Yeah, but the dichotomy was [ __ ] baffling anyway. >> Movie. >> Yeah. Well, well, Batman Forever is way better than Brand New Day. Sorry. I don't know if that's a hot take. It shouldn't be. >> Because it sounds cool. It all works together. >> It sounds cool. >> Spider-Man should be like many times dead right here. He had like four machine guns shooting at him and he's just fine cuz he flipped. He's He's doing the Gollum meme. He was literally doing the Gollum dance like from [laughter] the from the mod. >> [ __ ] yes, he was. somehow in support of Peter and his journey. To me, of course, this Peter Parker has always been the biggest corporate shill. >> Say to me, of course, >> that is hilarious. >> That is incredible. Coming from you. >> Coming from you. >> The [ __ ] laundry list. Where do we start? The fact that this is sponsored by the same [ __ ] mother company that you're trying to shill for anyway. Like, that's insanity. They're paying you, buddy. Secondly, he creates a mutant cure. gives it to the government. >> I don't understand like >> he's Peter Palanteer. >> He's also Peter Palanteer, which is also technology that he allows like the benefit to go to local police and the government again. >> And he runs it from his [ __ ] computer. >> Unfucking believable, dude. >> This is what I mean. Like there's no principles here. There's no honesty. It's full of [ __ ] No, >> isn't isn't the point of Homecoming that like he could have potentially have gone down the corporate shield route in the sense that like he over relied on the suit and the tech assuming that it was his forever and he could do what he wanted with it and had to learn how to be a human being without it in order to deserve it which is kind of like that's the pretty much the point of the first movie that kicked all of this off. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> It's so nice and perfect that his fatal flaw in this film is trusting the suits. >> Oh, is that the code? There's nothing wrong. >> It's not that Peter works for the DoD or that he works for the police or that he works for the Avengers or that he [ __ ] just follows the instructions of his AI. It's that he he just trusted too much, dude. He just trusts too much. He's too nice. That's his flaw. It's a flaw. >> It's literally Ry. She's too nice. [clears throat] Well, one of the most critical scenes in Homecoming was just him lifting a block of concrete with no help from any suit and just kind of being like, "Hey, come on, Spider-Man." And it's it's probably one of the best movie. >> But in this one, he's too trusting suit or Iron Man. >> This one he's too trusting of the government. >> He is the government. He's Peter Palunteer. He said >> that is well this is what he said about the whole like he doesn't even want to be in the cool kids club. It's like he's in it. He's a member. >> Got full access. >> He saved the universe. >> Well, not just that. He's got direct access to the leader of the Avengers whenever he wants. That is the cool kids club. >> Trusting damage control. Trusting that they would do the right thing. Just because on the outside they seem put together. >> What? That's not the right image. >> Hang on. Why do you show the Avengers tower? >> Damage control. >> Trusting that they would do the right thing just because on the out >> it's on the outside. >> Yeah, it's on the outside of the building. That's why >> I was about to say it was like remember damage control. >> Where's this from? >> This is from uh Thunderbolt. Bear in mind, the new Avengers are corporate superheroes backed by um >> Elaine. >> I remember Elaine, as we learned in Daredevil Born Again, was like an instrumental figure in helping Kingpin uh retain power in New York. The CIA at that time. >> And remember, Yolena said, "We own you, Valentine." That's what she said. "We own you is working with." She was the one that was responsible for keeping Kingpin in for longer, which means in part responsible for the deaths that were caused by that, but also Daredevil being in jail. Come on. >> In the home trilogy, he's a naive loser who doesn't understand how anything works. Just lame and stupid. In this film, the way better one, he's making a mistake in trusting all of these people. And that's an honest flaw and it makes him much more relatable. >> Just making sure we understand the math here because it's fantastic. side. They >> remember he was really happy that they paired him with Yolena for all the meaningful reasons, but now he's like, "No, he's making a mistake in trusting this because Yolena is this she's the Thunderbolt Avenger. >> She is." Yep, that's right. Yep. >> Incredibly lame. It's like, oh, damage control because they have been like around since the beginning essentially as like a cleanup crew essentially >> for a while. >> Well, yeah, if we're being honest and just make them evil as well, >> making them Yeah. torture a girl to death in order to do [ __ ] with their powers. I don't I don't I I don't think that's what they were last we knew what they were, but I guess that's what they are now. [ __ ] it. >> Even though they're not that. It's only Meza that was that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> In the movie. So, you can't even say damage control are bad people. Just Mezza. >> They seem like they have the people's best interest in mind. >> I mean, they did. When Tony was in charge of it, they did. >> Yep. >> Is he actually implying they've been evil since their inception? Yeah, because Tony's rich, so he's evil. >> I hate Tony. >> The idea that you would want maybe like an agency that ensures the crazy alien weapons and technology isn't just sort of floating out there in the wild. Yeah. What a crazy >> That alien tech belongs to the people. >> I still love how they how they just grabbed uh Sarah Sarah was her name, the sister, right? Yeah. >> Like, oh, they just grabbed her because she's different. It's like, no, no, you were mind raping people at the park for for the like in future. Just don't mind rape people. I know that's crazy, but don't just don't. >> Well, even then, like depending on the framing, what damage control, you know, their perspective could be. It's like, okay, there is this crazy powerful mutant that can mind rape anyone at will. They could destroy the world. This is a massive threat. We need to learn everything about her powers, even if it hurts her a little bit. She's like, like, we need to find a way to protect people from this threat. Oops. accidentally, you know, went too far and she died that we like like there's a framing that can actually make damage control look far less malicious. Now, I'm not saying what they did was justified, but look, think of the threat basically. And uh >> I mean, you can boost the hypothetical with they know that she's actively mind raping people. >> Yeah, exactly. And you can look at history and you know in past wars where people you know look at certain sides being the good guys they still did far worse. Okay. So >> I that's what that's actually what Cap says in Winter Soldier, right? That we made compromises. Sometimes it made us feel pretty ugly, but we did it to keep people free. Damage control can make a similar argument. There's mutants going around there mind raping people and turning them into slaves. We need to control that power to keep people free. To be absolutely clear, Striker, the villain, his motivation is because his son went to the School for the Gifted. It went to absolute [ __ ] Didn't work. He went home and he tormented Striker and his wife, made them see things until Striker's wife killed herself. So >> yeah, >> the idea in that film is yes, Striker should not be trying to kill all mutants. That's [ __ ] up. However, dot dot dot, what he went through was pretty [ __ ] up and you'd want to prevent from happening to other humans. And then this film has the balls to be like, "Yeah, she's just doing it willy-nilly to all people." >> Like, oh, >> even though she could just easily get all the information she needs without >> killing a single soul. >> It's unreal to me. If you if you collect up all the sins of Gan and Sarah Gray and present them to the [ __ ] president with Brian Cox's striker being like, "We need to take action now. We got to get [ __ ] mind control them. We got to stop." I could totally see the president being like, "Yeah, yeah." >> Yeah. All think of the threat that she poses. Not only can she control people, she can read their minds. So, we're talking like nuclear codes, possible arts and destruction of the entire world. These two people pose one of the most insane threats. And if they go off the rails, goes bad, or they're willing to abuse it, and they h are willing to abuse it. Holy crap. They you'd need to do something to >> even if they have no way of stopping it at all. They cannot stop it. She could hang around outside the Pentagon and mind rape a random staffer and get in and learn every state secret there is >> easy >> until that is they get their hands on the universal mutant inhibitor which is great. Um, but there's a really awkward bit toward the end of the film is during the fight with the hand where they shoot a special kind of gun that like dissolves Peter's webs and Jean says, "You see, they you thought you trusted them and they were making weapons that they would use against you and say, you are really sitting in there mindontrolling the entire [ __ ] city telling me that preemptive measures are not justified. Really, you're >> carries around kryptonite in the Justice League cartoon." He flat out shows it to Superman. He's like, "Hey, I've got this just in case." >> Mhm. >> Yeah. She could have done this whole thing with the M controlling like ages ago without anyone even noticing and she could have figured this all out by just walking inside the damage control building because getting that message with Bmax. That shouldn't be like really that helpful to her. Like she already knows damage control is the one who took Sarah. that she could have just got her powers in order, whatever she needed to do to train them, and then just go to the [ __ ] headquarters and just get the first one, then one with more clearance, better clearance, all the way up to Ber, figure out what happened and then just send out a [ __ ] email from damage control like, "Hey, we experimented on this one girl and we killed her." >> And if she did that, they would have had no way of stopping her cuz they wouldn't have known that's what she was doing. But instead, she decided to drive a tank down a [ __ ] street in the middle of New York and blast through a door >> and blow up the [ __ ] thing. He's like, "Oh, awesome. >> Got to have those action scenes." >> Realized that instead of blindly trusting them, he should have been focusing on the young girl who >> he didn't know she was a young girl. [laughter] >> Also, my You need to start talking about her. Okay, this is Come on now. >> Lashing out at the >> No. Okay. No, we're not doing that. We're not doing the lashing out. >> I think this is lashing out of the world. Mhler. >> I I I just I'm so tired of this >> world because she too has suffered a great lot. >> Um I mean >> she too has suffered show Stranger Things footage. >> She doesn't [laughter] know. She doesn't know this. She does not know it at the time. She >> I just want to be so about la ditched by the mum, but we're both together. Happy times. Haha. Mind rape. Mind rape. Mind rape. Oh god. God, the police people, the government bundos, they're taking No, my mind rape partner. No, >> that's it. I'm going to start abusing innocent people now. That's how I lash out. >> Most of the movie she thinks her sister's alive, too. And how does she know that the building she blew up didn't have her sister in it? >> Yeah, >> she mind raped everyone to make sure. [laughter] Do you know I've had people tell me like she had no idea who Mets was, and how could she? He's like, "I don't know, man. By jumping in the minds of everyone at DODC just to get Scorpion, she would have known." >> I don't think you even need to mind read. He is the director of the DODC. >> Yeah. Pull open [ __ ] computer. You type invr look his profile right there. Oh, easy >> [ __ ] >> I know who you're at the front of the building. Good morning, Mr. Mezer. You don't have to directly work under the person to know who the like top boss at the organization you work in is. Most people do know that. >> I've never met Donald Trump. However, I have [laughter] good authority that he is the president of the United States. >> Oh, do you have any way to prove that? >> Crazy take. >> You have a peer-reviewed study that shows the totality of the [laughter] president of the United States. >> Do you have a peer reviewed study of the corpses? Because if you don't, then she didn't hurt anybody. >> She's actually a very good person. >> Yeah, you can't assume anyone died. >> I need multiple angles. I need several sources. I won't believe it otherwise. >> She too feels so different, so rejected, and so alone. >> I don't give a [ __ ] She kills people. >> I'm glad she feels alone. She's a [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] >> Yeah, she deserves to be alone forever in a padded cell. You know, don't pat it. a [laughter] hard cell and and shake the cell. Shake the cell once every variation of 5 10 7 8 1 seconds just to keep her [ __ ] annoyed. Just just keep doing that. >> Put a blindfold on her and constantly rearrange the furniture in the cell. >> Have a dripping sound but no water. >> Oh, that's a good one. >> Me and Rags are going to spend 10 years tormenting her in every way we know and then finally release her just to put a bullet in it. Anyway, [laughter] listen. >> Look, I'm going to do to her what I'm going to do to all the scrolls. They all get thrown in the same blender as far as I'm concerned. >> I will kill you when you beg me to die. >> I knew EAP was evil. They keep wishing death upon people. >> It's true. >> I had someone on Twitter tell me um uh uh she would do something like this. Like it it's in character. And look, I don't know. I don't remember a lot about Gan Gray, but I'm not convinced of that. I feel like this is a bastardization of of what of of what her her capabilities are. >> No, not capabilities in terms of powers, but like >> like the nefarious things she willing. I don't think she would do something like this. >> I feel exactly the same way. I um it's been very weird seeing people say like this is Yeah, people are in for a shock cuz this is what Gan Gray is. As I've always understood it, the whole reason why Dark Phoenix is such a like sort of twist and tragedy is that Gan Gray is basically a paragon. That's all I've ever known. >> Yeah. >> About the character. So, >> from memory of the cartoon, she was always the calm, the one who was always like, you know, collected, telling people to, you know, not fight and uh and the moral center and things. And the and the Dark Phoenix thing was the thing that they put on her because she was so boring that they needed to do something interesting with her. And that's where the Dark Phoenix was introduced, >> right? Yeah. >> Did you get the is it the prologue the last stand where she is she's before all of this kicks off when Professor Rex first goes to, you know, pick her up, she is she's shown to be potentially very dangerous, like not in control, but not consciously evil, just someone who needed to be. That's why in that movie at least their powers are suppressed. >> But he does block that. Isn't that the thing that he actually puts the mental blocks of >> the walls >> when he meets her? Yes. >> Like that's because in that film, if if we're going just from that, no other additional continuity, it's like Gan Gray has something within her, a dark phoenix, if you will, that makes her kind of mad crazy and super powerful. And then when she's met for because she lifts up all the cars in the neighborhood when she's like a kid. And so, Professor Axe is like, "Okay, bing bang bomb. Now you're nice and normal." And then those things break apart after she dies in X2 dies to quote unquote, >> you know. Um, but no, yeah, up to that point, she's incredibly kind, Jean Gray, super chill. >> That's what I always thought. And it would make perfect sense in contrast with like the Phoenix, dark phoenix, whatever it's called, mode that she enters in, which is like the like the dark version. Like it would make sense that otherwise she's like a like a perfect like not perfect Maybe not perfect, but like a kind character. >> You did try to crush James Bond with her thighs that time though. >> Yes, >> true. >> Good movie. >> It would be funny if >> Night was in that movie, too. >> Yeah. >> In like a decade, we get Sadi Sync, uh, Dark Phoenix, and it's just like no difference at all. >> No, this time when she walks to the dude in front of the car, she walks up to the body and kicks it. She's like, I'm Dark Phoenix, so I'm even more evil now. Oh, okay. I got you. >> Yeah. >> Sides of the same coin. She's the darker version of the person he easily could have become. >> What are you talking about? Spider-Man [laughter] just starts murdering innocent people. What are you talking about? >> This is just pseudo intellectual gobbledygook that is reaching for to make him sound smarter when it's just nonsense. >> Yeah. No way home. Aptly realized that the furthest you could push him is that he would maybe try to kill Green Goblin. Just Green Goblin. Not an old push. >> Exactly. His arch enemy and he's pulled back from that. That's the lesson that he learned from that. >> Punisher isn't going to do that. >> No, guys. No, >> it's the trick too of us not having Uncle Ben in this universe. We don't have the Peter who has the like I missed the part where that's my problem. [laughter] Yeah, we we don't ever see him being on the path to potentially being a dark character and then being saved by Uncle Ben's like >> death. Even the dark eyes stuff is not it's not even him like it's he's like in a trance. >> Yeah, I don't know if that is him at all. >> And so you can't even compare him. >> Yeah, Jean Gray is fully cognizant of when she's committing these horrible evils. And so the comparison just doesn't match because he's literally losing his mind when you know he gets overcome like that. >> Yeah, he's going through puberty at 24. >> Actually, uh I think wasn't it Pirate Software? He mentioned us you can have second puberty where your voice >> remarkably sounds very weird and filtered. Or maybe >> he's going to he's going to sound really weird in the next Spider-Man movie. Just be ready for [laughter] it. >> He's going to talk like this. >> Come after May died. And instead of subjecting us to another final battle that we've seen a billion times over, the storytellers remember that the best Spider-Man moments, the ones we all we did that was what the ninja thing was. That was your big fight. What do you mean? >> Yeah, that was your big one. Yeah. Except in this case, there's no direct personal connection between Spider-Man and these guys. >> To be absolutely clear, no connection between the hand and Peter Parker or the Hand and Spider-Man because there is nothing. They're not even the hand and there's nothing between Jean Gray and >> Spider. It's funny because in the shots that he's showing, you know, from like Far From Home, it's like, dude, that's [ __ ] Mysterio. He betrayed him, manipulated him, tried to kill him, is going to try and kill his role in Yeah. and kill a bunch of innocent people as well. Like the stakes are very real and personal and direct in that one that you just completely dismissed. And also, it's a creative setpiece. It is like him having to deal with all of these drones that are trying to get him yields some kind of interesting application of the web shooters swinging around the big scene in the hallway. That's really cool. I don't think you can deny that. >> Well, and the [ __ ] illusions are all about like every everything Mysterio does in that movie is to lie to Peter and convince him a world that doesn't exist. The final test being the ultimate illusion and Peter overcomes it. There's a lot happening there. >> But like what's going on in this movie? It's like, well, the mind controlled ninjas are being forced to fight someone they can't even beat to save their [ __ ] lives. And he squishes up against the wall with web goo. That's it. [laughter] But he had to unlock his shadow self, which we didn't even understand the stakes of and didn't even know he could just do, but he did. It was done. It's like, cool, that's that, I suppose. I don't know exactly how any of that works, but [ __ ] it. But of course, he's now citing the Remy films, which again, they they crack the whole personal connection aspect, but I don't see how Brand New Day does. >> Well, no, but he didn't just site the Remy once. He also cited Tasm one there. >> I'm trying to remember Tasm. That's a lizard, right? Yeah, that's fair. >> Well, it's just cuz he's saying like the most memorable thing in that is is like, you know, when they rip the mask off to talk to him. Like I the reality is it probably is set pieces. Like the Spider-Man 2 train sequence is probably the most memorable part of Spider-Man 2. The most memorable part of TASM one. I guess it's hard. So insane care about it. >> Scorpion's got the actual a connection you can use with Peter Parker's Spider-Man in this universe. And they don't. He gets mind controlled by someone who does not have a connection with Peter Parker or Spider-Man other than the one you're just inventing now. He's like, "Oh, Peter Parker was like one step away from becoming Jean Gray." No, he was not. Not in a million years. [laughter] Talking about >> the main thing that I remember from Tasm is when the the like crook guy is walking and then Uncle Ben goes, "Hey." And then tries and takes the gun and then just dies cuz he's stupid. He's like, "Oh no." >> Honestly, I don't even remember what happened. I just remember getting >> that either funny. He like he like tries to like attack the like this thief guy who's just walking in the other direction even though he's like an old man and then gets shot cuz he's stupid. It's like >> how [ __ ] dare you. That's Uncle Ben. >> He has to die over and over again for our viewing pleasure. Okay. >> The [laughter] most important person in that cosmos. always and always will come back to are the ones where Peter >> always and always >> let's just repetition always and always >> is on full display. I love that May scene man for so many reasons. It's nice to have her actually act like Aunt May again instead of Happy Hogan's love interest. >> Oh no. No way home is the one where she gives a definitive moral message. >> Yeah, the definitive statement. the great power, great responsibility that's in No Way Home. Yeah. Why are we ignoring that? >> Also, just all the embedded [ __ ] with Norman, right? Like caring for people who wayward, need help, fundamentally shouldn't be sent to their deaths. Like all of that's May talking to Peter. So like why >> what? I'm sorry. What's so special about the stupid ass message in Brand New Day where she says, "Don't forget you're beautiful and everyone loves you for you." Why was that? >> I don't responsibility is to remember you're special. I felt like I was taking crazy pills, man. Like the first three films, you can have an identifiable uh branch of with great power, great possibility. But the third the [ __ ] fourth one is don't forget to love yourself, by the way, which is really important. In fact, it's the most important thing is to think the most of yourself. You're like, okay, >> this slots in with a lot of other Marvel female characters, doesn't it? >> I suppose so. But it was a weird one. >> The thing noticer I just noticed. Well, you're not wrong though in the sense that like, oh, thank God she said that to Jean Greg cuz if she had said something reasonable, she might have continued killing people. >> Like, you are amazing and you always will be. She's like, oh, wow. I needed to hear that. >> Just feels so dumb. I didn't realize you were miserable. >> And it's a brilliant payoff to everything the movie has set up. Peter has been allowing absolutely nobody in. He's >> He's also been allowing the rampant murder and killing. >> We're not talking about Jean Gray in any meaningful way. >> Yeah. No, I don't think we will now. We're out of time. He started >> afraid too. He's afraid they will get hurt. He's afraid they will see he's a monster. He's afraid they will see that his all too human heart is broken. >> He's not letting new people in, but he's doing everything he can to bring the old people back in pretty much every point. He He does not miss an opportunity to interact with his old friend and love interest, the ones that decided to abandon so he doesn't >> get him hurt or killed. Right. I mean, I was almost at the end of the last one. Do we agree with this? >> No. >> That he wants he wants to stay away so they don't realize he's a monster. >> No, >> I don't remember this. >> No, it's not about what they'll think of. >> Bear in mind that comes up that comes up after he stalks them. >> The transformation occurs because he finds out, you know, that she's got a new boyfriend. So, no. >> Yeah. >> It's a montage, but he's stalking them for like four straight days. >> It's very explicit and very meaningful. He would love to have them in his life. But he realizes it's a selfish move because they only lose by being in danger all the time and possibly killed >> while he gets to indulge in his selfish need to, you know, just have them there cuz he he loves them, which is like a really noble thing to do. And it ends that story. >> But then he's like, "Nah, [ __ ] it. I want him back." And you're like, "Oh, that's disappointing." >> Awesome. >> Crazy to think that it's the same writer, too. that it's the same writer of No Way Home that wrote this movie. It's like, dude, >> many such cases. >> Only way he can stop Jean is to let her in. Let her fully in. Let her see all the >> Let her in so she can mind rape you. >> Yeah. Like she did all these other >> Let her in. Let her see. Let her touch you like the what's his face in this movie? >> Creten or something. >> The cretinous. >> No, the other guy. >> I don't see the special touch. >> Grumble. >> Yeah. Oh, are you talking about in the Halo episode therapist uses magic [laughter] on the face? A very special touch. >> Words the grounding force he has held on to. >> No. >> No. No. Listen. You listen to me. >> Wait. What the [ __ ] >> How can you How >> you just said she was reduced to Happy Hogan's girlfriend. You showed footage, but now it's like, "No, we're going to cite the movies." I was just [ __ ] all over. He used the shot, the really great shot part of knowing. It's really annoying, man. Keep using the watch [ __ ] to back how good Brad New Day is. >> You have a gift. You have >> again another homecoming shot. What are you doing? [laughter] >> And with great power, there must also come great responsibility. >> I love how that shot means nothing for, you know, compared to the homecoming one. It's just Yeah, he's putting that mask on, I guess. [clears throat] >> Yeah. Yeah. No, >> May, his mom, a mother figure that we know G. These >> are all shots. >> All shots from the Watts trilogy. Yeah. >> Ever had a source of comfort that we know she longs for. >> Strange things. >> What makes the moment so beautiful to me is the fact that the scene doesn't just end with May telling Gan Peter to hold on to yourself. Hold on to hope despite the [ __ ] storm life will throw. >> No, she say them all. You're beautiful and special. >> [laughter] >> is also a nitpick, but saying may his mom is it just sounds strange when it's very clearly his aunt. Even if you just said that out and said >> mother, the famous Spider-Man character. >> He says mother figure right after that. It's like, okay, that's acceptable. Like, why would you say his mom? >> Oh, his mother. His mother's sister figure. >> Oh, all right. >> Throw at you. It ends. The threat, the rage. No, the threat ends when she's shot at and he takes the bullet. >> This, by the way, we talked about this. I think this is a huge [ __ ] mistake. I think there's loads of mistakes throughout this whole movie, but they absolutely should have started pulling this back when Peter and her come out of like the mindscape and then the bullet is fired cuz Punisher makes a mistake. You didn't. The way they did it instead was he fires the bullet. They're pulled out of the sequence and then it's drawn back once she sees he's hit by the bullet. Meaning Punisher did actually do the right thing. I'm sorry. >> Everybody. >> Yeah. >> I didn't make the CG. I didn't edit that scene. They did. They [ __ ] it up. >> Is brought to an end with Peter himself >> to the point where like this is actually a fantastic example. That is what he just said happened isn't actually how it happened, but that's what he'll remember because he's so [ __ ] in favor of this film no matter what. >> Telling Jean that she's not alone. Peter in his own words telling her that it might, just maybe. >> Oh, dude, your sentences could be a lot shorter if you don't keep [ __ ] doing all the qualifications all the time that are pointless. >> Yeah, we would have finished this video 2 hours ago [laughter] if you wrote sentences. >> But if videos weren't that long, he wouldn't be approached by mobile ad scam game companies to get him to show their products, to steal from his audience. It will be funny if he does this impassion speech with all these breathy exasperations that he finally just goes rage shadow legends [laughter] on the app store now >> continue to try touched this mobile game >> even if it feels impossible >> by the way it keeps cutting back to this shot from no way home just saying >> legendary high top is just so being sat in the rain should actually look like >> yesible to keep holding on when there >> [laughter] >> Keep holding on. Jean >> should have stayed. >> You You could just keep killing those old innocent people if you just hold on. Just keep going. >> Hold on to their hearts. They're being pulled out. >> The fact it was elderly people on top of it. It wasn't just specifically elderly [laughter] people. >> Yeah. Killing people is just funnier. >> Yeah, they're old. They're probably racist. >> Nothing to grasp on to. I have no one >> good. >> Why is that, Jean? Is it because of all the mind raping? [laughter] >> Is it because of all the killing you've been doing? The mind raping? >> It's from Sam. It's actually >> help yourself with all the mind raping. >> Imagine John Walker had said, "I'm alone. I have nobody." What do you think people like Hightop would have said? >> You deserve it. You deserve it. You deserve it. Three time Medal of Honor recipient. They wrote that. They wrote him three times. We talked about this before on um I think it was F&T as well, but like John Walker annihilates this for me because I know how full of [ __ ] all of these people are that make these videos. Like I know for a fact that you hate John Walker and it's insane. The double standard is [ __ ] insane. [clears throat] >> Blood on the shield. Their voice is bad. >> Well, then Thunderbolts did it too. Thunderbolts had the entire backstory where he was a dick to his own family and then he's alone because he's a bad father and his wife left him. He was on his phone while his kid was in the crib. That >> Yes, we should be [ __ ] killed for that. He should be put in the room of infinite torture. >> Remember there's that moment where he looks down the shaft and it's like implied that he's for a moment considering killing himself. Just like good god, man. >> You have me. >> Why is that? >> Is brand new day at the We're finally at the conclusion. He said it was perfect in the intro. Please [laughter] tell me videos say is it perfect? It's like I mean obviously not for anything. >> No, he's getting this whole take out the way. Okay, Frigy. He's got to say it. Here it comes. >> Perfect movie. >> Did say no. He he did say no. >> Wait, why is this the image for that? Is Is he making fun of the CG, do you think? >> So, whenever whenever you have to preface something by it's not perfect, it's probably because it's not that good. All right. Is it perfect? Also, yes. [laughter] Also, yes. >> Spider-Man to me. Finally. >> Why do you have to say that? >> Say to me every time. [laughter] Like >> to me. >> Spider-Man is tasteful to me. >> All the Spider-Man movies are Spider-Man. Like that means that >> they feel pretty Spider-Many. >> Yes. And it's hard to find something new to say with Spider-Man that hasn't already been >> Well, yeah. All you have to do is ruin all of your own principles and you had plenty to say. Good stuff, man. >> Said so beautifully before, but I believe the fresh idea. >> What the [ __ ] was that delivery? >> Beautifully before. >> The lesson this tale has to offer is the notion that in our modern age, life moves so fast, too fast. >> So fast you can barely keep track of your 3D printer and your AI and your relationship. >> Like $20,000 [ __ ] godamn it, man. >> Tech, man. >> I know. >> So much tech. I still don't believe going to run an eye on that thing or his [ __ ] Palunteer server. That's [ __ ] >> Who is the inner child that was once so pure, so full of optimism? >> What are we doing? >> I don't know what the [ __ ] happening anymore. >> In the movies you said were bad. >> Talk about the murder hobo. >> The isolation that comes with growing up tries to take that sincere heart. >> The isolation that comes with growing up. What kind of childhood did you have, bro? >> What is he saying childhood? I I guess it's leaving your high school friends and moving on to different phases in your life. >> We finally got the 3D printer shot. He like avoided using that [ __ ] >> Tries. >> There it is. Acknowledge the 3D printer. >> Yeah. Isolation having all that. Yeah, >> that [ __ ] Prince Spider-Man suits and web shooters. It's [ __ ] crazy. >> To take that sincere heart we were all born with. And sometimes maybe you >> I don't know. Oh, wait. What? What? Can you Can I hear that? >> That sincere heart. >> You want me to roll it back? Mel, >> please. No. Are you crazy? >> Full of optimism, of hope, the isolation that comes with growing up tries to take that sincere heart we were all born with. And sometimes maybe >> I don't think Jean Gray was born with a sincere heart. [laughter] >> That was a highly unserious. >> God, I hate it so much. I hate it here. I can't stop drinking at 12, can I? >> You can. There's no rules. [laughter] age 12 or 12 to >> the sun just rose for me. >> Sun's rising somewhere everywhere. >> You just need to sit on a bean bag and play with Legos. >> How can you say that when the savior of the universe is dragged away to a psychiatric hospital? Go play with your Legos. [laughter] >> What the [ __ ] [groaning] in order to feel like the world [music] life wasn't always so bad wasn't always so damn heavy to feel like to remember that yes there was a time when your biggest worry was figuring out where how why you fit >> dude I'm struggling we're doing a mixtape again >> I don't know that um that heatwave alert saying you know do not set off fireworks do not use barbecues they Do not use high top scripts in there cuz the pen's [ __ ] burning right now. >> At the very best, this is the most surface level like emotional crap, but is hamming it up so much with the music and his expression like he's saying something meaningful when no, this is this is I get pissed off when I know people are trying to manipulate me and that's what this whole thing is. Is just constantly trying to be like I'm smarter. This is this is really important. You got rid of them. >> But we're getting a hyper dosage of that now cuz it's the end of the video and it's giving me diabetes. >> It's really ramped up right here. [laughter] >> Giving me diarrhea. Jesus. >> Diabetes and diarrhea. It's true. >> About Spider-Man. The enduring thing, the thing I've spent hundreds of hours talking about at this point is his ability. >> Hundreds. Hundreds of hours. >> I guess the way he writes >> Spider-Man so much. Oh, yeah. Maybe in in his personal life too, he talks about Spider-Man with his friends. >> I mean, it's obviously hyperbole. >> I don't know, man. He meets up with his friends and immediately goes like, "Dude, Spider-Man, I love that guy." Like, >> do you think he has friends? >> Have you heard of this guy? He's called Spider-Man. He's like, he's so cool. >> Need to teach us the strength that comes from the struggle. And finally, for the first time in a long time, that struggle isn't just paid lip service. It isn't just the iconic debt. >> It is, though. because he has help from everything. >> The lip service of the struggle of your mentor dying. >> Even like homecoming is the things he does in homecoming lip service. >> Aunt May dying. The lip service. I'm trying to figure out like the struggle that's that Peter goes through in this film is that he's mutating and he tries to stop it and then he embraces it and it's all fine in the end and he and it gives him a power boost to beat the guy. Is that is like >> I guess >> he's trying to be a loner and he's having difficulty disconnecting from other people because he really wants to be with his friend and his girlfriend, but it that's that's causing him turmoil, I suppose. And also he's gone through puberty too. >> Spider puberty. >> Is there any level of depth to the level that Hightop is trying to convey that there is and I'm I'm not seeing it. >> No. No. Hard no. >> Harder than he was watching. >> For the first time in so long, we have a [laughter] >> dude. con with his [ __ ] sentences saying, "Wait, what did he say? Magical multiversal losses and then they show other Peter other Spider-Mans disappear. >> I keep zoning out for like a second and then I miss what he says cuz >> No, you actually don't miss anything. That's the crazy part. >> It isn't just the iconic deaths. The magical multiversal losses. >> There it is. >> What does [laughter] that even mean? >> Well, it's it's the spun bads from the other multiverse. But that wasn't even a loss though. That was like he celebrated them, thanked them, and then they went home. >> Yeah. >> Did he say magical just to have some alliteration? Is that literally why? >> Yes. >> They were his only other two friends, though. >> He doesn't have any magical multiversal losses. >> Spider-Man and I guess Flash Thompson. >> Nuts. >> For the first time in so long, we have a Peter Parker whose struggles >> No, no struggle. He's a stalker. I don't even rank that as high on struggling. You're just weird. >> As real as it is relatable. [laughter] >> He said it's relatable, guys. [laughter] >> It's not about It's never been about the gadgets. It's not about the >> um He's got pretty [ __ ] great gadgets. >> His gadgets are plot relevant. They they control the [ __ ] inhibitor [ __ ] the tracking of people. His AI like, why are we lying? Stop it. Put it down. >> Toys are how many you can sell. It's about a young man standing in a crowd of people. It's about a young man just trying to sell playing Marvel rivals. >> Not this scene, [laughter] >> cheering his alter ego's name, chanting it because he saved them. He inspired [music] them. He gave them a reason. >> I'm not even kidding. There's an alternate universe hightop where if this happened in a John Watts film, you would have skewed it. >> This is this is literally >> This is literally the beginning of uh is it Spider-Man 2 or three? I can't remember. I mentioned it before, but where they where he says they love me as they all chant his name and the movie says that >> that he needs to be humbled from that. And the conclusion of this is that this is like the good thing. >> And he supposedly loves those Remy movies >> to keep going, cheering Spider-Man. Spider-Man, having no clue that the all human Peter Parker is standing right next to God, dude. >> Oh yeah, that's so crying when he wrote this script. >> Oh, I'm going to kill. >> I can't [ __ ] deal with this, man. [laughter] Human pizza. is exogenous IDA DNA >> because I was sad I'm going to be >> I will say >> yeah and then you'll be justified >> there's something really cool about exposing a normal person to hightop for the first time it's like [laughter] >> watching them suffer very >> I mean it's him or what he presents >> I don't like him for breakfast it's not great >> it's all about Peter Parker [laughter] standing in the party saying they don't know I'm Spider-Man that's what it's all about >> yeah man [laughter] >> that is literally what he's saying among them smiling at a kid pretending to spin a web sharing a moment with a child who very well could who very well will grow up and struggle. >> This is funny when they said sharing a moment with a child and then it shows a child getting beat up by [laughter] >> to find a way a reason to make it to mourning to >> I don't think reason to make it to morning is he like always I'm going to kill myself if people don't love me. What? What are you saying? >> Yeah, >> make it to morning to dawn cuz that's helpful. That's necessary. >> I could be wrong about this, but regarding >> And he shows a sunrise when it's dawn. Regarding the stalking matter, wasn't it the case in I can't remember if it was TASM one or two where like Peter decides like uh I can't be with you Gwen cuz your father and stuff and but then he like follows her around for a bit and then doesn't she like call him out or something like are you following me or something or there's something like that where you're meant to be like oh he's kind of on the verge of stalking here but like that's so like small scale in comparison to this, but in this movie like it it doesn't really address it as like a a big deal at all. >> Yeah, I think it's in but like they're not even apart for that long really. Right. Like I remember them getting back together pretty quick. >> Okay. >> But it is you're right. It is the kind of thing where it seems like he's following her around because he can't help it. >> Yeah. And and in this case, it like goes like way over that line, but there's like there's no like it's not calling them out at all for like the stalkerish behavior. >> Well, I'm just I'm I'm searching their Instagram stories, whatever. They're posting them. They're public. It's not >> normal. >> I'm not talking to any other people at all. But, you know, [laughter] >> feels so allconsuming sharing in that smoke. Stop already. Jesus. >> You really do have to go in doses to recover. You're like, whoa. It's like radiation. >> We're almost there, guys. We're going to have an ad and then we're done. >> He talks more about the small scene where Peter's like, "Ah, Spider-Man webs." Like, "Oh, just going to do life's tragedies." It's just like it was like >> That's what it's all about, Metal. It's all about the kids. >> But what about all the people who died? [laughter] >> This all makes sense cuz when she killed the old people, he was like, "They're old. They're [laughter] they're done. >> They're in Death's Door." Anyway, >> it's about Spider-Man inspiring kids and gan killing elderly people. >> You see, it's it's a metaphor or a >> it's a cycle of life. >> Well, also this scene here is the end of Amazing Spider-Man, too. So, is he saying that this is a good movie because of this scene? Because it shows that Spider-Man has like moments where he he interacts with a child he inspired and saves his life cuz this character >> I mean, this scene's always been funny cuz the cops stop the mum, but they let the child run into the middle of the road. [laughter] >> It's okay that kid's wearing a Spider-Man costume. Spider-Man, so >> we don't know he's not Spider-Man. Despite the crowd, despite the fleeting hype, the hoopla, however brief that hoopla, >> god totally doesn't fleeting hype totally doesn't just like sum up his channel. >> Oh, true. Yeah, that's ironic. >> Hoopla the malarkey. >> Maybe that's the reason the reason to wait to hold on. >> Oh my god. [laughter] on the way. >> Suicide is hightop on any given evening. >> Yes. >> His voice wavered so much he said on with three syllables. [laughter] >> Fight through the night for those first morning rays of war. >> You said this already. Shut up. [laughter] He keeps going over and over and over. It's the morning sun. It splashes on us. It gives us the the need to go on. >> I would way prefer it if he was saying it with [laughter] a quaint of an accent. >> You sometimes will to live is just over the rainbow. You got [laughter] to reach out otherwise you drown in your sorrows. Thank you. >> In a rocking chair or on the on [laughter] the porch while playing the banjo. >> He is laying this on so thick. Does he do this in every video? >> Yes. every video. This is This is every high top video. It doesn't matter what it's about. >> We've been here for 4 hours. >> You should have seen Nuts. I think the first time she watched it was last year, I want to say, and she lost her [ __ ] mind. She was rough. >> It was rough. >> A little taste of American. >> So, we all seem like maybe we're a bit harsh to him, but once you've once you've seen enough, you start to like really lose it. It's >> enough. >> Yes, we've have watched enough. We got a little bit more. We're safe. >> From sunshine. The reason to >> The reason [laughter] for a brand new day. For a brand new day. >> For a brand new day. Yeah. >> No. Don't say it. No. >> Oh, he's going to do it. He's going to do it. >> New. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Just underlines that. [laughter] >> The pen is on fire. He's burned down New York City. >> The little Galvatron would be proud. It's not a little It is a thermonuclear blast is what it is. That's what happened when he wrote that. The bed exploded. [laughter] >> He's like Randy with the ectoplasm. [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, it's like I Yeah, I was just going to say it's impressive. He has that energy of coming in his pants for every video that he does. [laughter] But also, it is safe to conclude that >> like Wayne and the >> he ran away from talking about Jean Gray. >> Yeah, he's a [ __ ] coward with that one. He knew he can talk. >> This is like this might be his worst video. And I think it's because it's so plainly obvious that he had to >> say that this film sucked, but he just did not want to. >> They they have assassinated my comfort character. High. This ain't hightop. This is [ __ ] corpo top. And it's it's very upsetting that they've done this. I can't believe the writers betrayed me for whatever it was called. >> If he actually cared about what he had said in previous videos, then he would hate this movie even >> Oh, yeah. >> Even more than like it being bad, but because this was like he was finally going to get what he wanted and then he didn't. And then on top of that, he's chilling for a Marvel mobile game. >> That's what I'm saying. Like, oh yeah. What do you want me to say after a million [ __ ] exasperative expressions, all these words with a bazillion syllables? Like you said, it's like, oh yeah, it all comes to a close, it's like, oh, how very sincere now. Please buy the Spider-Man mobile game. Like, what the [ __ ] off? >> If he mentions it, if he mentions it again, I'm going to cry. >> I don't think a brand new day play Marvel, whatever. >> Hey guys, I have so much to say about this movie and where I think they should go from here, so stay tuned. Yeah, you have so much to say. YOU SAID [laughter] NOTHING IN 30 MINUTES. >> Because in a few weeks, I'm going to drop a video on exactly that, where I think they should go from. I hope you guys enjoyed the video. You're going to make another video. I was shocked. I was genuinely flabbergasted and I looked over to my partner and was like, "Dude, I love that." And I'm [ __ ] [music] I'm shocked. Much love, guys. Let me know what you thought. Uh, have a lovely, lovely, lovely day. Make sure you get the special thanks to Marvel Strikes. [laughter] >> Oh jeez, we did it. >> Yes, it video. Check out the links below. >> I doubted that he would, but he did. >> You can play as Spider-Man. [laughter] >> Don't forget. >> You got to play my new mobile game, Spider-Man. >> Code to get a fresh start in honor of Spider-Man brand new day. Use the promo code >> in order. Get a new addiction in honor of Spiderman. [laughter] >> I need to get Spider-Man Hulk and more rewards. >> Oh, you get Hulk 2, guys. Come on now. >> Stronger squad day one. Something seems so insidious too about putting that in picture and picture with his patrons on the left because it's like if they want to do their name in the credits of the video, they are forced to listen to the ad. >> They get [laughter] screenshotted along Marvel [ __ ] strike force. >> We finally covered a video in the first four hours of part two of [laughter] the anniversary. >> Jesus, that was a long one. It's so [ __ ] jarring to go from the faux heartfelt delivery to to then the the the Marvel game advertisement like >> criticisms having too [clears throat] much money. Well, I have the product that can help you. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> He threw out the corpo like insult at one point to the Watt Spiderman. It's like what are you doing [laughter] you fool? You foolish fool. Like if they made a modernday like Phantom toll booth, there would be a mobile game demon that our protagonist meets. [laughter] >> Hey kid, check out this cool game. He hands him a phone and it's Spider Marvel Strikeforce. Isn't it cool? Isn't it fun? Oh, you got to pay some money if you want to You don't want to wait, do you? >> You don't want to miss out on the new game mode, do you? 4,000 purple gems. That's Oh, that's a lot. You don't want to miss that out. It's basically free. What a steal. You're basically stealing from me. >> Yes. >> And I I guess we're not talking about Jean Gray in this video. >> Certainly not the part that everybody around her for a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Other than to be like flowery with Oh, how sad. How sad about what happened to her sister. How sad. She's so sad. >> She was not alone. >> It's all she needed. >> Yeah. She told She got told she was right actually to love herself all along. Shockingly, if you could if you can believe it, >> that was her lesson. >> Love yourself. >> Is him shilling the mobile game better or worse than Chris Duckman? Because this one is like a direct conflict of interest. And >> well, Stuckman did that with Ghostbusters. >> Well, oh, did he? Yeah. Oh, I kind of remember, >> you know, stuckman still. >> He did the payday loan things, too. >> Yeah, he did the direct conflict of interest and then he did the loan. He did the >> therapist. The wicked gambling app >> gambling is the it's worse. Gambling is worse than the mobile game. The mobile game is like gambling adjacent cuz >> Well, I was thinking because of the conflict of interest might bump it up. >> Conflict conflict of interest is Yeah, that's that's like low tier villain, but gambling ad stuff is like it's starting to get there because of that that that ruins lives. >> Describe this game as addicting. Well, gotcha gambling though ultimately like you might say, "Okay, I've spent too much money on this." Whereas gambling because you have the possibility of getting money back, including the money you lost. It it is kind of more insidious because that can actually like ruin people like financially forever. >> They're both They're They're really both just things you should avoid. >> Yeah, I'd say that's a good recommendation. Solid advice. >> Didn't take ethics in uh school. plenty of video games you can just buy and play. You don't you don't need to play a vacuum. Peter Parker is a corporate shill though. >> Yes, he is. You know, something I meant to mention while we were looking at the um the Boogie uh video. I saw this in the Discord and I thought it was hilarious. >> Yes. Yes. >> Um >> Okay, >> so people were discussing Boogie and so someone says, "I had no idea who Boogie was before EAP covered him." It was really confusing for me just sitting there wondering why this particularly fat or particular fat miserable person was such a big deal for the guys. You have a response from someone who's in the know and says he's fairly well known the YouTube atheism sphere in 201 [laughter] >> Franklin. >> We're we're seeing in real time how as years pass people forget the original and instantly invent a new truth and then get accepted. You've seen the back rooms, right? Rags the movie. >> I have. I quite >> I consider this the back room. [laughter] Like >> Yeah. The Discord backs in the back. >> Boogie was a YouTube atheist in the 2010s who did Franklin videos. [laughter] I don't I don't think any of that is >> probably like intermittently would mention something negative about Christianity because oh my abusive mother was Christian or whatever. So mention that every once in a while. Someone in chat said, "Frank Franklin, Franklin, brother of Boogie." >> Oh my god. >> Franklin [laughter] the brother of Boogie. >> Like backrooms people. I I had a brilliant one in chat the other day. I can't remember who what the topic was, but there was some character on screen and someone in chat said that this person looked like that atheist who got cracked by Mrs. Garrison, which [laughter] is obviously Richard Dawkins, as you might have known if you were, you know, alive in the early 2000s. Oh, Miss Garrison. >> Yeah. >> Uh, >> is Franklin a reference to the the turtle? >> Like the turtle cartoon? >> France. >> Francis. Francis who? >> Boogies character. >> The one that does the >> Oh, he has like an alternate persona or something. It's his Angry Gamer like character that kind of made him famous. >> Imagine Imagine Dr. Jackekal and Mr. hide, but like sort of reversed where the normal one's the evil guy in the the alter ego that pops out is kind of better. >> Yeah. It turns out Francis was less crazy than Boogie all along. You just didn't know it at the time. [laughter] >> Yeah. Boogie was having Gollum monologue and recording it and then he just broke. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. This just came to me like a [ __ ] vision. Like the muses hit me with a hammer. If you if you finish if you beat the Gollum game, you're a Gumni. Given [laughter] huh? >> Damn. >> Holy sh >> If we could mod Steam achievements, I would add that. [laughter] >> Wait, doesn't have Steam achievements? >> No. >> You mean to add? Okay, >> because we're making a golem mod for people. >> Does anyone here have all of them? >> Uh, no. >> Platinum Golem. >> Well, cuz you need to you need to do a deathless run to get a all of them. >> Let me look at the golem achievements. I have 51 >> footage I've seen that doesn't seem like it's going to be very >> I think I have like 40% of them. >> I have >> Half of them are like story completion. So >> yeah, you just get them. I have I have two rare Oh, three rare achievements. Uh my rarest achievement 6.2. Okay. You found all food items at the bell tower. Only 6.2% of players have that. So I'm a bit of a ball. >> Oh, he's so annoying. You got the Grasheneg trampled, drowned, and eaten. 9.5% >> and all the the achievements are like self-aware at how [ __ ] the game is because it's like you found all the useless things when you find all the collectibles like that. >> Yeah. Made a song. You rang all the bells at the bell tower. 7.2% of players have it. >> There's an achievement for dying in lava. Why? >> Because >> um Well, is it called why >> you Oh, right. Well, it's cuz not yet precious or whatever it's called. Because Gollum eventually dies in lava. That's why you get an achievement. >> Break a leg. >> It's just funny watching people play it and then they're like, "Oh no, I died. You got an achievement." [clears throat] >> Funny. >> One of the achievements is River Hobbit dived a total distance of 2,000 meters. >> Wow. >> Well, I guess because he was one of the river folk, right, Smeaggel? Oh, my problem with this isn't my problem with it isn't lore related. It's the [laughter] 2,000 meters of diving that I mean that pressure would kill anyone. >> There's also I don't think it wants you to go down 2 kilometers [laughter] into water. It's not what they're saying. >> There's also an achievement. You have to fall a certain distance, but you're required to fall that distance in one of the jumps. So, like you get it no matter what. I'm is I'm pretty sure how that works. >> Dude, imagine having to platinum this [ __ ] game. Jesus Christ. >> 50 stones. >> There's videos on it. Like the people who platinum everything who make videos on it. >> Oh yeah. How did How did you do that? You completed the game without dying. >> How did you do that? >> There's your bottleneck right there. >> Well, when speeding the speed running the game, he's going to get that. >> Most of these are not like difficult. They're just they're just annoying because you have to know to do them. But that one that that is the insane like maybe unprecedented in gaming history difficulty spike of completing Gollum without dying. >> Yeah. I mean >> I haven't played Golem, but from the footage I've seen that does not seem like even a possible task. Never mind. >> Well, you can just randomly die. You can just suffer a cardiac arrest at any random. First time the first time I died, I was just in a bush and then the game pushed me out of the bush and got me [laughter] caught. I'm like, why? >> Bushes kill. >> This demonstrates the value of not being seen. >> Well, if you haven't platinum Gollum, have you really played it? Have you really seen >> Are you really a Lord of the Rings fan? I would say no. I would say >> Metal's Lord of Ring. He has to platinum Golem. >> Oh god, [laughter] that's going to cost you though. By the way, don't even test chat metal that now. >> They've already been talking about it. [laughter] >> You could go part three is metal platinum and gollum. He [laughter] just like gets halfway through and dies and >> bro that would take so long. I would have to take breaks because there's going to just go to games I want to talk about on like the forge or something. >> I don't think that [laughter] there's a price. That might be something that I don't think you could put a price on. I just don't >> I had thought about like putting a price on it and I'm like I'm not playing Gollum. It's one of those things that >> you cannot give me enough money to do that unless I retired for life, >> but I don't think I I could like I I don't >> like what amount of money is grand than I would because then I like don't have to work for >> well then I wouldn't have to work for a long time. So like I would have more time in the long run. >> Wait, do you think you get it and then you have to do it? You have to complete the game without dying before the money runs out and you starve to death. [laughter] >> That's not allowed to go to work until you get [laughter] >> 10,000 money up front, but you can't leave your house. >> I'll be like, wait, then like I I would only have like a couple months before just breaking even at that point, though. And I might not do it even then. >> I uh >> what what's super chats on top of it? >> When you walk out of that room, what kind of what kind of person leaves the room? Because surely it's not the same person who went in. >> You enter Smeaggle, you exit as Golem. >> Golem. >> Many of the subtitles was referencing him as Golem. >> Golem. >> I think I think Gary still calls him Golem as well because he would have read it that way in the books long enough that it embedded. >> Dude, >> is he Golem in the books? >> Well, Gary would have read G Lum as Golem, but I'm not sure. Did Tolken have a any word on >> definitive pronunciation or >> I don't know. >> That reminds me of >> last time you spoke to Tolken platoon. Did he say anything about that? >> He was mostly just kind of chilling. He didn't really have much to say. >> Did he like Brand New Day? >> I haven't asked him about that yet. >> Okay. >> I get the sense it's exactly the sort of film he would have loved though. >> Yeah, I figured. The real tragedy is that he died before he could have seen brand new day >> and played Gollum. >> He gets to watch it in hell. [laughter] >> Satan's like, "Time to torture." Oh, Tolken, dude. Oh, you know what? I'm not you. We can hang out. Have you seen the new Spider-Man? >> That'll be kind to my garden. >> So, um I have >> How many playthroughs do you have to do to do them all? Because you need to get like all the golem choices, for example, and then all of your gold choices. >> You need to dying. How many times does that take? You have to restart the entire game every time you die. >> Theoretic. Well, I think that it's like how many like theoretically how few playthroughs would it take to get all of the achievements? And it's probably like three maybe. >> Yeah, probably. >> Obviously, the insane bottleneck is going to be beating it the one time without dying. But >> I mean, surely you can you can reload your save and that still counts, right? >> I >> I don't know. >> Don't know. The game is very buggy, so maybe that's literally something you could do. >> You'd have to ask >> or you have like a dead man switch where you press a button or something or you pause it and reset before like the you like proceed like you'd have to count the death until you reload it. Like maybe because some some games will count when the death occurs at different times. So you could be dead and it could say game over, but until you like press start or something or restart, it doesn't actually count it as a death. >> So you can also quit the game or alt F4 and it it won't count. >> You can also like periodically make a copy of your save file just in a different folder on your computer and then if you die you >> Oh yeah, that file in there. >> That would probably work. Yeah, >> but if you're going to do that, like how far are you away from just being like, "Okay, I'm just going to use Cheat Engine and make myself invincible." >> Well, you can't cheat. I guess that >> that's a two those are both thing, right? It's like is safe scumming cheating? Some would say yes. >> If you fall off a cliff, then you like still >> like you have to restart somehow, right? >> Well, but Gollum is an honorless game. So I >> as long as I don't I think as long as you're not like outright hacking, cheating using like exploits, I think a lot of them would be would would would still be in the spirit of beating. >> I don't know why we care about morals concerning Gollum at I'm I'm currently on Steam on the Steam uh community page and apparently it does not work with reloading. >> Damn. >> On the >> saving [laughter] save files must work. >> No, wait. Hang on. Wait. >> To quote the great Odin of Thor. Silence. >> What he says? >> What are we doing next? >> Beautiful. >> All right. We're doing stuff. >> So, um you guys remember a little story from a long time ago? little little TV show called Stranger Things. You remember that? >> Uh, I remember watching most of it. >> Um, we said the Precious Chat that we would update them >> with coverage of course the second the uh the final episode came out >> cuz of course we were waiting for that. We had it on very good authority it was going to happen. And I can say that we have to give an update because well first I should say we should let everyone know what that update was cuz there's some people in chat who didn't even know. Some people in chat foolishly watched what was available on Netflix and thought that was the end of the show. That's pretty embarrassing because it obviously wasn't. >> We had be crazy the idea that the show ends with the advertised number of episodes. >> Yeah. And that it ended badly. What the [ __ ] No, >> no, no. That's never happened with any TV show ever. >> Was teasing this episode in his video. That's why he kept showing Stranger Things clips. >> But what I'm going to show you is something that we uh we checked out once upon a time, the very intelligent lady. And she is going to let us know. >> Oh no. >> Well, what to look out for. And then, of course, I've managed to discover her update on on the case because >> still alive. I am particularly invested >> still alive >> in finding out about this >> killed herself when the Stranger Things doesn't end. >> But first, like I said, a bit of a a bit of a, you know, let's remember her. Let's remember what she was saying this whole time. We got to get this thought out. >> I had a full video planned out. I had it broken down, guys. I was going to break out the whiteboard, but I'm at a point now where this isn't okay. Media literacy and everybody who says that they have it, they have no idea what they are talking about. I will [laughter] tell you right now, >> she's mad because she's been she's been pulling the I want you I recognize some people don't even [ __ ] know this story. Okay, so like I was just memeing for a bit for for a bit back there, but like the truth is Stranger Things comes out and it's really [ __ ] bad. It's like the worst ending to a TV show ever for some people cuz they haven't seen Game of Thrones and it's like the it's just destroyed their whole universe. This lady, it broke her brain so badly. She has this collection, like a spreadsheet of continuity errors and descriptions and lines that don't match and stuff. And all of it is on this huge serial killer board to describe there's something going on. The writers are so [ __ ] clever. They never would have let this happen. There is a secret episode. Now, I want you guys to roll yourselves back to Sherlock, the BBC show, cuz this happened and there was a name for it and it never got the bonus episode that was supposed to fix everything. This has happened before. It's probably even happened before Sherlock for all I know. But uh other people were being driven mad by this because the the it started to get traction conformity gate, right? The idea is that all of the characters in the show were conforming to characteristics and behavior that does not match their characters. Therefore, that's the signal that you've watched the false ending. And she was talking about [ __ ] episode codes as well as like things just said in casual interviews or certain symbols you'll find in different places. She was convinced that we're getting the bonus episode and that you're all going to be [ __ ] proven wrong. She was getting mad because people were like, "You're insane." And she was like, "Um, actually, I'm media literate." You're not. >> So, >> it's really very, >> very amusing, isn't it? It's so delusional. >> And of course, this this is the video that she put out that we've seen already. I've cut it up a bit and then we're going to >> we're going to see where she's at uh once you get the static to signal the transition in time. >> Now, I am the only person on the internet >> and backseater to go on a date. Yeah. >> Oh, no. Can you imagine the children? >> No. >> Yes. [laughter] No. >> They look very similar, so I can't. >> Oh, she's barren as the Sahara. >> Brought you factual evidence that gaining new episodes or having these remaining four unregistered episodes changed to the table. So, the few of us that remain are known as the ones that were intelligent enough to figure it out. [laughter] >> No, actually, I'm the smart one. And you're all crazy for not laugh. You have to >> You have to respect her confidence. >> You may laugh at because there's no new episode that's come out, but that's just that's not yet. There's still time. >> Oh, it's only a year. >> That's what I was going to ask. So, she's making this video after the final episode of Stranger Things has aired. >> Yeah. She starts making them during the last batch of episodes and I think this video is immediately after the last one. So, cuz I remember she was talking about how she she'd read into like the episode codes and the copyright filings and the legal disclaimers that she invented in her crazy batled head. Um, at the same time as Netflix was updating all of its description saying all episodes of Stranger Things are now playing. But that did not dissuade this wonderful lady from her theorizing. But like is this between episodes four and five or is it after eight and she thinks that there are secretly going to be 12? I guess >> we got the real ending but we're missing context in the middle that actually makes it all make sense. >> Episode 9 is the one she was expecting and everybody else in conformity gave was expecting. >> I just think it's [ __ ] nuts that she's so furious that people haven't just agreed that it's going to happen. That's she's like so mad. >> Do you know when do you know what the date of this is from? like how long it's been, like what the timeline is. >> Well, again, if it was talking about it when like when the season ended, it's been about eight months. That was December last year was when season obsessed with something. You see, she is like the female backseater. There's just so obsessed with these things. >> There's the guy modding ring >> proper. Also, does she have a wedding ring on >> that? Yeah. So that's the wedding finger hand. >> I don't like this. I don't even know why the comparison would be drawn. This is like a This is funny, but like this is a lot more normal and less like >> than being obsessed with more normal. >> More normal to expect a secret episode than other guy than that other guy. Yeah, obviously. >> Oh, the back secret. He thought you meant him Ringy. >> Oh, no, no, no. I no spending [laughter] dedicating your entire life to Lord of the Ring Golem is much more uh normal and and uh than me >> I still meant backseat but I I >> absolutely not that crazy stuff. She's just talking about this silly show like this [laughter] this is funny and it's and it's silly but it's >> him saying those things on Twitter is less normal. Yeah. >> Yeah. Honestly, that's >> I don't I don't like that. You know, this this is much more like harmless, you know? >> Well, this is very funny. >> So, the video we're watching now, is this her shortly after the last episode or her recently? >> No, this isn't recent. This is this is after the last episode comes out. >> Yeah, she's getting pissed. >> People are basically coming to terms with the show ending badly and she's like, "You're insane. Listen to me. For [ __ ] sake. I know what I'm talking about." Yes. enough to figure it out. >> We just jump forward and she has massive [laughter] bags under her eyes. >> How does that bother you? Do us all a favor. Get over it. Or if you're interested in learning about the show, come join us. And to everyone else that is looking for me to give you theories and continue along the ride, I'm going to be honest, this is going to be a long ride. We are probably not going to get answers with the documentary. What this is going to do is going to be small enough breadcrumbs to keep those of us that can find the facts and the information stringing along. >> So this is what we call like an unfalsifiable >> Yeah. [laughter] basically no matter what happens it'll make sense. So don't worry about it. It's like >> literally every result is actually evidence for what is correct. >> There's no loss. >> Don't understand even if you've got this theory and you're certain that you've read between the lines and Stranger Things is coming back. Why the indignation for people that might believe you if you just made your case and were nicer about it? >> Uh, I don't know. It's just cuz it's fun and exciting to feel like you're a special person in the special club that's got the unique insight. People This is in various >> people do it with movies. People do it with politics. People do it with all sorts of things. >> All sorts of conspiracy theories. We We >> It just makes it just makes life seem more interesting and special, which I always find funny because I don't know, man. Like if you just see like a bird outside, that's like pretty magical like in and of itself. Just a bird up in the tree going kaka and you know just flying around. I I feel like the world is interesting enough as it is to not need to be sort of doing this kind of thing. >> I'm right and it's taken me a really long time to admit this. I'm extremely intelligent. [laughter] >> I can't believe that he is king. She found a way to say as she was saying I'm in incredibly intelligent. She also snuck in I am extremely humble. It took me this long to admit that I'm as intelligent as I am. I'm actually the most humble person you'll ever >> The proof is in the cream of the pie. Okay. >> Look at look at her jawline. [laughter] She looks >> Don't Don't say cream of the pie when her face is on screen, please. I find I find people like this fascinating where they're so unbelievably confident in their own ignorance and there's like like seems like there's a category of stupid people that the dumber they are the smarter they think they are and it's like this interesting inverse and if they become stupider they think they're even smarter and then the hubris that's baked into it it's just interesting because these are the type of people that when I was watching on TV there were like caricatures of these types of people and then you get out in the real world and you discover oh there are actually people like this in real life that wasn't a parody >> there are people this arrogant and stupid at the same time >> and ever since like I said it's fascinating that >> they're real >> they are they walk among us [laughter] >> the internet has allowed for them to more easily coagulate it's like flat earthers have their little communities and they seem big sometimes or how they've been able to just find each other and you know just >> it's also made it way easier for them to double down on their neurosis cuz I think this came up when we covered the video the first time. I think this woman she's not unintelligent in the sense that you need a bit of brain power to join the dots that she's joining. She's being a investigative b creative. She's being very thorough. That her problem is that she's siloed from sane sensible people. And so she's kind of spiraling into this neurotic behavior. Um, and that's what produces this sort of conspiracy theory. Lots of conspiracy theorists are really quite intelligent. They're just also [ __ ] at the same time. >> Yeah. If I was to like put these types of people into Dungeons and Dragon statistics, they would have like average to low intelligence, but a little bit above average, you know, average like there, but really low wisdom, like negative wisdom almost. >> Megalomaniac. >> Foolish. Well, it's like like they've passed this psychological threshold where if you challenge them, they will constantly double down and insist. >> Well, the the challenge is proof. It's like, ah, I'm on to something. You're trying to like bring me down and silence me. I've actually got this [ __ ] Oh gosh, I'm on to something. And you're you're either a rube or you're a sabotur. >> Long time to admit this. >> I'm extremely intelligent. And I'm not only intelligent when it comes to math and science and figuring out puzzles, I'm intelligent when it comes >> I remember this clip from before. >> Oh myful very >> I'm not only really smart with math and science, but also being autistic or something. >> Yep. Th this reminds me of that clip that was going around Twitter of that lineup of people and they have to either guess each other's IQ and the lady that thinks she's got the highest IQ and then guess the guy being >> Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about because yeah, she thought she was really smart and there was this guy and I think he went to like the army so they all just assumed that he was an idiot and I think he was the second smartest guy in the room [laughter] >> and she had the lowest IQ as well And it was just again >> some good rage bait, that sort of stuff. That's uh that's Jubilee. That's uh that's all they do is rage bait. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Oh yes. And then afterward it's like, you know what? There's actually a lot of other things that are more important than IQ. It's like that's true. It doesn't even really matter that much at all, but like you seem to really care about it until >> IQ is [laughter] not something to scoff at. IQ can mean a lot. >> It's one of the most like predictive >> Oh no. the things that there are in social sciences. It's just that most of the people who obsess about it tend to not have much of it. >> There's a lot I think people understand that people are multifaceted and have a variety of strengths and everything. >> People are really fishing through the uh that art book and there's just other pictures of very obviously AI like stuff. It's just kind of funny. >> Oh, the Spider-Man one. >> The Spider-Man art book. Yeah. Especially it's between like very obviously real concept art as opposed to what the whatever this and what's crazy of course is like >> people said like no it's wrong. They've already they've already said it's absolutely not. It's like I think it's too late guys. I think the cat is out of the bag. >> Yeah. Um to quote to quote uh from Peep Show, it's not that simple. The floodgates are open. >> Look at that finger. >> It's funny. >> Look, he got stung by a bee. It's what is [laughter] like a smile. Those are smiling friends fingers. [laughter] >> Weirdly wrapped around. >> Those are the the ones of um what was it? Was it Jeremy the That was that was that >> they're kind of Yeah, they are kind of like Yeah. >> So for me like seeing this instinctually the uh the like little finger and the wedding finger on the right hand. It's like the finger wraps fully around the phone if you know it comes all the way back into the hand. Yeah. >> And then of course, can you see what's happening to his other hand? >> But what is the context of this angle? >> Yeah. Look, look at like how the Yeah. His left hand is like turning into a claw. >> Yeah. [laughter] He's becoming the fly. It's the >> He's becoming a spider. Yeah. No, the fingers. >> All that they will learn, by the way, is to hide this from you uh until you can't tell. That's that's the lesson that will be learned. and then one day it'll >> bulldo >> because like it's it's kind of like the physical media thing like Sony were just like all right let's pull the plug let's do it uh you know we'll take >> and they will weather all of the uh the the [ __ ] that they'll get for it but Wolverine will probably do fine and uh Grand Theft Auto 6 will definitely do well >> and remember that >> remember that that image is from like years ago because it's concept art for a movie that just came out. So, like the concept art that's AI they have now is much more >> way better. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, again, it's it'll it'll just be that they'll uh they'll they'll try and hide uh it more until until you know like essentially >> it's already convincing now. So, they just have to like >> Well, yeah. It's just Yeah. >> Not only intelligent when it comes >> Yes, I rolled it back. It's funny >> to math and science and figuring out puzzles. I'm intelligent when it comes >> figuring out puzzles. every single time. >> He's intelligent when it comes to basically everything. Then >> that's uh that's that is the emotional intelligence, right? The [clears throat] the EQ or whatever it is. >> She's intelligent emotionally at the same time. >> Yeah, that was me. I've been doing that a lot lately. I'm not sure. It's uh I'm not doing it on purpose. I'm not trying to >> That happens to me every once in a while. >> Forgive him. We're >> we're well into the stream. Okay. He should be allowed to be >> gas. We are. And it feels weird because um every time every single time I almost get it wrong in my head cuz now it's like about 900 p.m. and and every time I'm like, "Oh, okay. So, we're pretty close to the end." It's like, "No, this this [ __ ] ends at like 5 in the morning." Like, [laughter] >> it's like, "Yeah, we're pretty close to the end." Like, "No, no, no. >> We're doing We're doing solid though. Seven hours 16 and a half because you know, like F1's starting in like an hour and a half and that'll be well and truly finished. That'll wake you up. It's loud. Yeah. >> Uh >> yeah, we're into the third third. >> It's you know what's that? >> We're into because 816 24. So 16 we've just passed. I think >> we got we've got uh >> Don't ask me to do math. >> No, it's not quite like that. >> Yeah, you're not as smart at math as this lady rags. >> We have to puzzle is that every time it is >> Oh, you're right. >> We're going to 26. I think we're more like Yeah, we're more like 9 and a half hours left. Which is what I mean. We're kind of not even close. >> Um, >> so you're saying we shouldn't [clears throat] even think about it. >> Someone someone in chat a few minutes ago is like, "Oh, we have only 9 hours left." Like, yeah, only because this only podcast are like 30 minutes long. >> They're foolish of you to think that I'm not going to be paying attention to it as well while we're uh >> he can multitask. >> That's right. Anyway, I think for context, we should really roll it back here. >> Find the facts and [laughter] the information stringing along. I'm right. And it's taken me a really long time to admit this. I'm extremely intelligent. And I'm not only intelligent when it comes to math and science and figuring out puzzles. I'm intelligent [laughter] when it comes to people. Every single time those actors do interviews and every single time the Duffer brothers do interviews, I can tell you who's lying and I can tell you when. This is the last [laughter] It would be weird. Not that we needed it to age to be funny. Like, it's not like we needed that. But obviously with the passage of time, this just becomes hilarious. >> Chronological passage of time. More specific. >> The D brothers problem was an almost pathological inability to lie cuz everything they said was true and was [ __ ] and awful. >> Imagine thinking they were geniuses and seeing all that [ __ ] You'd be like, "What? What are you what? They must be lying." It wouldn't make sense. >> Time. I'm going to get aggressive on here. From now on, my page is going to be dedicated to those people that still want to have hope. There's going to be times where you're going to be like, "This is insane." Like, "Are we still really waiting for it?" Yeah. [laughter] Have a little patience. Love the show for what it is. Continue to find the And I love >> Whoa. What if it's a [ __ ] show, though? What a show. >> So, so she is has not gonna change from this position at all and will be doubling down even in the current day. That's my prediction. That's what I think the followup is going to be based on her attitude here. We'll find out. >> Go for what it is, but also don't be [ __ ] and understand that the the last episode, the real last episode is going to come out and all the shitty stuff's going to be better. >> More hope because eventually we're going to be right and it's going to be even sweeter the [laughter] longer it takes. >> Oh, I'm just waiting for the cut and she's just like haggarded in the neck and like eight months later. I'm afraid again if I had no idea what was coming I would have agreed with Shad. I'd be like this woman will be on her deathbed talking about how she's she's nearly there. It's coming out any day now and it's going to be so sweet when it does. >> Oh no. >> If you recognize my face, chances are >> she's back doing some makeup. >> I knew she would look >> weirder. If you're following me, you should probably stick around for this message. Um, if you're following me and you're here because of Stranger Things and you want to stay because of Stranger Things, I strongly recommend that you unfollow me because from this moment forward, [laughter] I will absolutely not be discussing Stranger Things. And before the starts, I'm going to get >> so bad. I will Yes. Like the the pairing this with like the very vigorously kind of like applying the makeup conveys a tone that you might not want. [snorts] >> Yeah. Like is she actually accepting reality? But if she is, she is not happy about it. >> Not happy about it. >> Well, I mean, also, especially after saying it's going to take a long time, but the longer we wait, the sweeter it's going to be, and you didn't make it a year. >> Well, I think the problem is a lot of people would gradually just be like, wait, this was [ __ ] This was all [ __ ] wasn't it? And she's like, >> they just get bored of like the show anyway. They'll just get bored of, you know, there's other stuff going on. It's no longer exciting. >> Yeah. and and you rewatch the episodes and be like, "No, I think they're just shit." I I actually think they are just [ __ ] Oh no. >> Oh no. >> Front of this. And no, I didn't do anything wrong. There's no legal allegations. I am not paid by Netflix. What >> legal? [laughter] >> Okay. Dramatic turn. >> How far did you go with your conspiracy theory that you guys you hacked the [ __ ] Netflix headquarters or something? Like what's going on? She's the cyber leaks of of Stranger Things. [laughter] >> I have simply been tortured by this community. [laughter] >> Oh, no. >> You started this community, woman. >> You were like the first person to say that. >> This is the brilliant out. It's not that she was wrong. It's that the community doesn't deserve her. That's what's happened. >> But she still came out the game swinging calling everyone stupid. >> They are. But now that includes the community >> since January and it just keeps getting worse. That fandom or that section of the fandom has grown larger than the community of nice people. So I have decided consider >> nice community. >> Oh man, the nice people who just said you were really smart and correct and smart and correct and smart. >> That's right. Smart and validated. >> Yeah. The people that validate me, they're really nice. >> I miss them. >> Own mental health. Not to mention my career has actually come under fire. Oh god, it's all going wrong. >> Maybe there's something else going like a different conspiracy now like the conformity gate conformity gators who are trying to sabotage the conformity gators in order to silence the truth. You know, it goes deep. >> Longer contributing to this community. I have no joy anymore in the show. >> A >> Stranger Things was our only joy in life. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Oh man. >> And I'm going to find joy elsewhere. If you're following me for Stranger Things content, I actually recommend you head down below. decides she's going to look for joy bes in another place besides a bad TV show. >> It's going to be funny though because she finds she's going to find something else and the same thing is going to happen because that's just how the internet works. >> Oh, Spider-Man. That's fun. Oh, this guy called High Top. He made a good video. >> No. >> Also, what's interesting throughout all this, not once has she said that she's wrong. Uh like her narcissism doesn't seem like she can, you know, allow that. And so, she's saying, "I'm out. Stuff you guys. my mental health. It's all your fault. >> You've been rude to me. You don't deserve me. >> You've been rude to me while also declaring like how clever you are and how stupid everybody is who disagrees with you. >> I'm extremely intelligent. >> You're not you're not doing yourself any favors by doing that. But you know, >> I do I do love not just saying extremely, but the way she said it like extremely. It's like okay, you were committing to that word. Definitely. >> I think it's Bluttack. absolutely incredible. Her and I theorize on a regular basis. Most of her theories and my theories actually don't even feel like they'd fit together, but they perfectly intertwine. >> Wait, what? >> They don't fit together, but they perfectly intertwine. >> Run that one again. >> Okay, >> that's that's saying. Yeah, that's not that. >> You can't do that. I'm the one with the situational disability. That's my gig. >> Exactly. And this feels >> intelligent, guys. [laughter] She didn't say she was smart with words, only math, science, and puzzles and people. >> I think she's just having trouble, man. Just the conformity gate blues they call it, you know, hits a lot of people. >> And I talked to her relatively exclusively about my theories now. Um, and if you want to hear my theory, >> like honestly, surely you're developing less and less as days go by and the reality is hitting you, too. It's going to hit all of you eventually. >> There's going to be a point. Yeah, there's going to be a point. Everyone moved on quickly, >> you know, for so to speak the nonconformity gives which I guess all of us qualify as. If they did truthers in five years now, drop a bonus season just randomly onto Netflix and it was all the what the season 5 was supposed to actually be. And then they reveal in some interviews like, "Yep, we held on to them for ages." The conformators were right. All we would have to say is, "Holy [ __ ] you are absolutely [ __ ] >> You absolutely annihilated the show for this. What are you doing? >> I mean, we we followed all of the available information at the time. The crazy people just happened to be correct as if at random. >> This is no way to change my methodology on anything. >> You be like, "Yeah, we were wrong." But the thing is, a lot of the guesswork was based on just how things normally go and why you would never do this as a major studio. It makes no [ __ ] sense at all. or they made the new season thinking because of all the people who want one that like have resulted since it ended, they might actually be able to make some money. But that's probably more likely. >> Yeah, I'm saying specifically that it's like definitively proven they filmed it at the time. >> Oh, okay. >> A whole other season and they held on to it for 5 years for a [ __ ] meme or some [ __ ] Be like, wow. >> She's going to be the one that I'm >> It would be funny though if it was >> that Ryan was somehow worse. give her exclusive rights to share them. For all the rest of you possess, [laughter] >> how how many >> points of point of service? >> Like how many people can those even be? Like this is like a pretty niche part of the fandom. I imagine that's still going around. >> All those bots on Instagram were so mean to her. >> Yeah, I guess. I was trying to figure out in my heads like how many people would she actually be like annoyed by especially with like I mean I guess I'm not surprised that they would be cuz she seems to be very full of herself with everything. So if you have like this niche fandom and she just goes like oh those are all pieces of [ __ ] I they be mean to me it's like it's probably not that many if you like compared to being like anti some other fandoms if you know what I mean. >> Yeah. Also the after the pee. >> What's being mean? Just saying that like there's not a secret episode. Like >> I mean probably saying mean things to her because of how smug and like condescending she was in the first video honestly. >> Wow. A smug [ __ ] getting mean comments. How what a crazy thing to happen. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The intern predicted that. >> What? >> Yeah. feminist throwing [ __ ] I mean, I I actually thought there was going to be an extra thing, but I was I thought it was going to be like a podcast [ __ ] thing like what they did with Tiger King where like they just get the cast like zooming in, >> you know, for like a conference call to >> talk of a secret episode over Zoom [laughter] >> who have said that I stole your content or I stole your theories or honestly I don't why am I giving you this much Anyone else who's taken my stuff? >> Why didn't you say no? I didn't do that. That's a bit suspicious. >> Go right ahead. I never cared about ownership. Full transparency. I was just out here trying to make friends. I'm a lonely 38-year-old woman who works an insanely demanding job who doesn't even have time to leave her house, let alone actually get into the friendships that I have in real life. If you're curious what my future, >> I don't believe her. I believe I don't believe she's 38, but okay. >> Like, why why are you even talking about this? Don't do Don't do that. Like, you don't need to be doing that, you know? >> Yeah. Everyone, I can't be wrong. My personal life is in shambles, people. >> I can't even leave my house. >> Yeah. I mean, my my first like I wouldn't immediately describe her as dumb. I think she's delusional and lonely. >> Yes. And like I think she's very articulate, but like that's I mean that's it's not really, you know, she's delusional and she's just like totally entertaining that and >> and abrasive. I think that's the bigger problem. Like I said, I think if she just presented her theories in a way that was more charismatic and persuasive, she probably wouldn't have got nearly as much push back. >> That it is about Stranger Things, you know, like a pretty pretty silly show. It's like you put a lot of uh >> you put a lot into a conversation that was going to die rapidly >> regardless of how you know >> true your observations ended up being which let's be real there was never ever ever any possibility that there was going to be secret episodes >> so many people would probably have checked out right after that episode dropped like oh that wasful >> secret season actually I might even be down because that was what that was talked about right that it was almost like a secret season I think escalated. It began with episode 9 and I think a sub faction split up and said there's a whole extra season because obviously you can't fix all that [ __ ] in one episode. >> Pulling pulling this off would be like the cinematic equivalent of D-Day. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> It's kind of funny. The only the only reason I even know about this is because I watched the last episode because I was over at Mers at the time. I just watched it without any >> and that [laughter] was fantastic cuz it's utter [ __ ] tripe. It's just like what the [ __ ] you >> No. No, no. It was it was it was a nightmare like that you go through. It's like I don't know what this does none of this makes sense. Then you see these all these [ __ ] theories online. It's like the bookshelves do the Morris code or something. It's like what? >> Wasn't there like a kaiju battle in the finale? >> Yeah, there sure was. >> They were fighting the big [ __ ] guy on foot. It was like how do you how are you winning? [laughter] What the heck's going on? I just saw the clip of 11 jumping into its mouth or something that looked really funny. >> Like I I like kept up with Stranger Things for a while because I you know I enjoyed it for the first few seasons but it never struck me as like a groundbreaking terrific show or anything like that. But I I but it was a cultural phenomenon. >> Um I I I would say that about it. I think she's latching on to that >> and she wants to feel like a part of something and then feeling like she's on the front lines of >> um the belief that there is a better ending to what was considered an underwhelming ending. >> This this sounds like a thing where she found like a hobby she enjoys after all her hard work and she could just share it online and everybody was like on board like yeah >> okay >> [ __ ] extra thing this is amazing. And now the reality hits of the internet being the internet. I was like, "Oh, >> sucks." >> It's just it's just very obvious also that she thoroughly enjoyed everyone calling her super smart for this and she was she was on a high as a [ __ ] kite on that and was like, "This is the best." >> And then when it's like, "Oh, you're like a retard." She's like, "Ah, [ __ ] you." Actually >> content's going to be honestly I don't know. I never even knew when I was doing content about Stranger Things kind of what I was going to do. Just what I was thinking and I shared it with the internet. So, I mean, stay tuned to see what happens. Um, >> stay tuned. >> I thought you just said you're not talking about it anymore. >> She'll talk about it to her friends about it cuz they're normal, not to you guys though, which by the way, >> maybe she means what she'll talk about next other than >> Yeah, that's what she's she's on about is she doesn't know what she's going to do next. Stay tuned to see what happens. >> The few seconds I spent on I can't even remember if this was Tik Tok or Instagram, I don't care. But um in my recommended immediately like however that [ __ ] page works, it was like filled or it was the search term. I don't even know. But it had loads of there are accounts every day still posting about conformity gate. Like it's happening. It's real. The the you know that play they released apparently there's loads of evidence in the play. >> It's like um okay fellas thumbs up sort of thing. It's like you you keep at it. It's good to be passionate, right? All the evidence will just be glaring plot holes which are all explained by the behind the scenes documentary on the play, which is about as disastrous viewing as as the behind the scenes documentary on the show was. Like, it's really really embarrassing because they sent it at Kate Trevor, one of the the long-term staff writers to do it. She'd never written a play before and then she was coming up with all this crazy [ __ ] and then 5 minutes later they were calling her from America saying, "No, you can't do that." And the poor guy who was actually making the play happen was basically tearing what little remained of his hair out the entire time. >> Oh, >> so can I ask what exactly what exactly is conformity gate? What is that referring? Um, I did mention it earlier, but it's like uh the part of the reason why people just couldn't accept this was because a lot of the flaws of season 5 could be categorized as everybody is acting out of character and nothing makes any [ __ ] sense and VCNA could be screwing with everybody mentally or that everyone's under mind control or that everyone's been replaced. And that a lot of the categorization of the problems would be that characters are not sort of taking action where they would. They instead are doing things that they wouldn't. They are like conforming to some kind of control. There was an image being shared. A lot of people were doing the same hand gesture as VCNA. You're like, he's controlling them. He's controlling them all. Uh there was there was the famous was it like a lever or something that had a different color in one shot. >> Dial changes color. The I think that's the episode after something changing color actually meant something for the plot as well. And then the dial changes color which is a production mistake. But because the show had told them that changing colors matters, everybody thought that must matter as well. So people going [ __ ] nuts over all these different things and that it it did get dubbed. I don't know who came up with the name conformity gay, but that's what it ended up being and it's just the agreed upon lie that there's a secret great episode that's going to come out and fix everything. And of course, even if they did, it's like, wait, you put out a deliberately bad season? What's [laughter] the point? >> Yeah, right. So I I didn't realize >> like some of the people specifically a Stranger Things thing. Sorry if I I I missed that you mentioned it already. No, it's all good. It's very confusing. Honestly, when when I found out it was called Conformity Gate, my brain immediately went like, there's nothing you could say to me that'll make that make sense as a name. >> Yeah, I think it comes specifically It's from the graduation shot where all the people standing wearing their weird orange gowns, which I think was another point of suspicion. All had their left hand over their right hand, and that is the way that Mr. Watsit stands. So they were all conforming and therefore conformity gate. It's very it's the kind of weird [ __ ] you come up with if you're the kind of weird [ __ ] person who believes in this kind of thing to begin with. >> Right. Yeah. >> If you're planning on commenting on this video and being like, Kate, don't leave, you know, or I love you. I know that, guys, and I love you, too, and I appreciate it, but I have to protect myself. I have to >> We love you, crazy lady. [laughter] >> We love you. >> You're my favorite >> family. From what? See, if you're at the point of having to announce on these videos that you need to protect your families, like don't even make them anymore. Why even talk about it? Just [ __ ] stop this. How did this happen? >> Protect your family from the trolls. What? >> I don't know. >> And I think that all it's going to do is give into the narrative of me throwing a pity party. So, please, no need to leave them. >> It is okay to admit you were wrong. It is okay. You can do it. We just got to work together. >> Nothing. And people will forget. >> That is an option. It's true. >> Um, and to all of the posos's that decided >> No, not the POS's. the pieces of service. What did you say, Rags? Point of service. That's that's what it's called. >> Point of sale. That's it. >> To make me the villain in their story. I have one message and >> she's VNA. >> One message for you only. I want each and every one of you to completely Anyway, >> whoa. >> I want >> How long did she think she held that before she got to do her one bit and thought it was clever? >> She was so excited. >> She thought that out. The timing of that was actually not bad. She >> I'm gonna be honest. I think she's deducted points because I think she cut the volume from her voice and >> put out which to me that's that's lame. You got to commit. I think you [laughter] got to hope that the actual dryer actually manages to cover. >> I was wondering why there's no artistry there. Obviously, it intentionally chose to be putting on makeup while doing this rant. And was it to just justify the presence of a haird dryer? Was that the whole thing? >> It's a more continuity than Stranger Things. >> Yeah, it was it was good setup there and payoff. You know, >> it is a Tik Tok. From what I understand, people on Tik Tok do it when they want to give the impression that they're casual and they don't take it too seriously. They're just, you know, shooting from the hip in terms of conversation, which is not what you would get from her mannerisms or her vocal delivery or her general intense air of anger. But I think that's the impression she's trying to give. >> But even the practice in general just makes it seem more fake than authentic or casual cuz it's obviously put on. They you must choose to do that when you're making the video. >> Logic. We don't understand it. >> I guess I'm so busy logic. >> [clears throat] >> I'm so busy that I have to do this while I'm getting ready for work in the morning. It's just a thing that I do. I don't really care about it that much, even though the internet's destroying me. >> So cool. I don't care about it. >> Imagine the throne she's lost. >> Trying to address it for no reason. >> People used to flock to her for wisdom, for hope, >> the cure to the loneliness that is the lack of a good episode of Stranger Things. But now they're losing faith. They're becoming weward. False prophet, they say. They yell. >> [laughter] >> in my window every morning. >> Not in that group of people. AND WHO KNOWS WHAT my content's going to be. Should be fun to find out. >> I don't know. >> I thought you were worried for your family safety. Shouldn't you just not anymore? >> Yeah. Pack it up for a while. Lay low. >> It is funny though. She does just like makeup content or something. And then every once in a while people are like, "So, any updates on conformity game?" She's like, "Stop. I can't. That was my old life. I can't go back." >> Who says that and then has no audience? [laughter] over. God damn it. >> So, you know, it was nice to check in. I think uh Glad >> she's doing well. >> I I think the initial assumption [laughter] was correct that she will forever believe Conformity Gates happening and just it's all a really elaborate troll that extends very very very long. And that's that. >> I hope that the Duffers make a troll tweet just like for her specifically and then she gets really excited and then nothing happens again. Well, that's the thing though. They could tell and she'd be like, "Yeah, exactly. That's what you guys would say." Oh, >> well, when she's 87 years old and she's lying on her deathbed about to pass into the great beyond, her last words will be, "But why why didn't they release the secret season? Why are they just sitting on it and not giving it to us?" I know it's there. I saw it in the sacred texts. >> Of course, it exists, >> dude. It's coming. It's just so good that it takes so long to make it. Do you think Rex that she would be so committed >> that she'd be like, "No, I'll just see it in heaven at this point. It's fine. [laughter] >> They'll have it up there. >> Only God has it." >> Well, they episode. >> Well, one of uh one of purportedly one of Beethoven's last words were, "I will hear in heaven." And so, one of her last words will be, "I will see the secret season in heaven. [laughter] >> Give it to me." Secret season. Um, >> God will be just like, "Yeah, I mean, you could get in eventually, but like you were a real real dick to all my, you know, everyone else down there. You know that, right? It's just a show." >> Yes, of course. >> Oh, >> what if God told her the show was bad, >> which makes sense. >> She would go to hell. >> I got some fight God. >> God was lying. >> I have to edit this game in a month. >> Be so fun. >> Not necessarily. Maybe no one will play it cuz it's so weird. >> Maybe it's going to be incredible. We don't know. >> Finish Campaign Evolved for which, by the way, editing Combat Evolved is the most fun I've had editing something. Like even more fun than Gollum >> because it's a good game. It's actually fun to edit people playing and enjoying and praising a good game. >> And I have >> Yeah. And then I have to do campaign evolve right after. [laughter] And then it's the worst thing ever. You're so annoying. Well, >> and then I have to do this right after, >> as you may have guessed from that, a series of very uplifting pieces of information. We're going to check out some Wolverine stuff, guys. >> Very exciting. >> And I've got a video to follow up. >> Preview, right, that happened was sort of there was a whole bunch of new stuff that came out. >> There was indeed. So, it's sort of prompted conversations about >> Wolverine, about Insomniac, about PlayStation, like movie games, games in general, uh, and the coverage they get. >> Yeah, >> Logan, it's me. Wait, >> we only trailer got story trailer and mechanics trailer, >> right? >> Why did he do that? >> Cuz he's he's big he's big Matt. We don't know the context. That's the whole point here. We're going to find out. >> It's cuz he's It's cuz he sees a woman. >> And what is she wearing? >> It's a weird outfit. >> I I approve, >> dude. It's the trailer's just started. You got to give it a chance. >> No. Ask more questions. >> I was just confused. >> Mud rage. >> Yeah, we've all been there. >> You came back. Oh, it looks so bad already. >> Why does he look like he's on a Zenic? Like he inflated for [laughter] >> Logan Wolverine. He should be more jacked than that. >> Yeah, he's uh maybe we'll get a better shot to talk about that, but Well, >> he's [laughter] like he's like what a real strong person would kind of look. >> Is he short? >> Is he short enough? >> Oh, true. Yeah, he's like 53, right? Isn't he 535? >> Wolverine is short. By the way, ina in case anybody didn't know, Wolverines are real animals. Um, there's kind of like aggressive animals named after them. Yeah. Known for their punching above their weight. They're not they're not like wolves. They're they're more like weasels. They're part of that family. >> A lot of people don't You say no kidding, but a lot of people don't know that. A lot of people don't know that Wolverine is based on like an actual animal. They think it's like based on a wolf. >> People in chat thought you were joking when you said that the last time when you said he's based on like the >> there was gag that they did for the Zootopia movie that came out recently where they would have like Disney movies but then they would have it with animals. And when they did a mock one for Deadpool and Wolverine, they they had it like Dead Mule and Wolfine. Like a lot of people don't know that a Wolverine is an animal. They don't know that. >> So you say no [ __ ] >> What would Batman be? Have no idea. >> I don't know. I don't care. I just wanted to point out that realize >> I Okay. All right. >> I guess a bat's not a bird technically. >> Well, it is in the Bible. >> Humans and we can't survive together. >> Oh, is that a scroll? Kill it. >> [screaming] >> I've tried to keep them I've tried to keep them >> so brutal. >> Yeah. I mean, >> well, yeah. I I think I saw someone say that it was like they didn't know how the the way that they described it was it's like a T-rated game sort of pretending to be an M-rated game. And I uh I thought that that uh that was like that's like a really good way of putting it. It's like yeah, there's blood, but for some reason the violence >> No, it's it's like the being violent. Well, yeah, cuz it's I think it is, but like it doesn't feel that way. It still feels a bit tame, >> which is funny because they they said they have like sliders to get rid of all the >> That's right. If you don't like which a little bit of I've been seeing like what are you >> Well, they probably made sure to say [ __ ] a lot, so they got meure rating. >> Ah, right. >> That's what they always do. >> [ __ ] trash. >> Yeah. See, I told you. >> I thought you were back. Oh, there's a video someone put out um and it's a dub of the scene. You you remember I don't remember which season it is, Fring, but when uh Fring brings in Jesse to talk to the guys making the meth at like the major production area and Jesse's like, "You guys are running a shitty like project or whatever." Like like he he calls him out for doing a bunch of things wrong. Someone made a dub of it where they're like pretending to be Jesse and they're like, "You're an [ __ ] You gotta do this the proper way." Like, it's it's almost funny in how bad the voice acting is, but someone put that clip against this one with Saber-Tooth. And Sabertooth's acting comes across that way. Like someone's going, I I hate you, Logan. >> [ __ ] sight now. >> I thought you were back. We were back. Yeah, I I see what you mean. Also, by the way, I don't really I don't understand why you put Mystique in like like actual body armor. Does that even make any sense >> for Wolverine? Not really. >> No. For Mystique for Mystique to be in cuz like if if she's if she's transforming and that includes the body armor, then it doesn't work, right? Like it's not >> so what's the point of that? Well, maybe it's to maybe she's trying to blend in as someone who is wearing body armor and it would be weird if she >> But then but no, but in that shot you could see that she just transformed back into blue mystique but with body armor. Wasn't that >> maybe she put on body armor before she transformed. >> But if that doesn't make any sense that like the whole point is that she can free up the clothing [laughter] on like >> free wouldn't do anything right. Well, what I'm saying is that's boring. Putting her in like lame, boring plate armor is like that's just just lame. I don't know why you do that kind of lame in this game. >> It's what people have started to realize is like, hm, the Insomniac games don't have a great sense of style for the like comic book sort of world. A lot of stuff is presented in a very boring and generic way. I wonder if the uh the game got an M rating just for like the amount of blood particle effects, even given the fact that the blood effects disappear off your character model after a while or like not even a while, like a matter of seconds. >> But then once they got the M rating, they were just like, "Ah, let's just say [ __ ] a bunch of times cuz we already got the M rating, so [ __ ] it." >> [laughter] >> Yeah, >> we're going to build the future for mutants. That is why you >> That's uh that's that's Troy Baker, by the way. That is uh and I think he's playing uh Mr. Sinister, I think, is uh that's like the character. >> The plot of this game is >> Yeah, >> he's part of a he's not part of the X-Men. He's part of a team called Team X that includes Sabertooth and Mystique. X-Men >> things on the left-handed. >> Yeah. And this is set in the uh this is set in the the same universe as the Insomniac Spider-Man games too, >> which I uh >> you know, I wonder how much that matter. >> Is the story of this uh game like Wolverine saving mutants? Is that what it's about? Because I >> Yeah. Part of a team that's like Yeah. That's That's like see Well, again, if it's if it's set before there's like even any X-Men, then I guess it's meant to be like a you know, it'll lead to that, I guess, is is like probably the point. >> And that Yeah. And that green kid keeps popping up and stuff. I haven't been following it very closely, but I always see that that green kid with the beanie that was like in a few shots. He's always >> The bad guys are being mean to all to to the the mutants. Oh, >> yeah. >> [groaning] >> Oh, we're going to have a James Bond first light motorcycle sequence. >> Oh, I'm sure you pressed all the buttons for that one. X. >> No. Hopefully, there'll be a little bit more dynamism to this uh motorcycle. You don't And you say that there is no >> abusing his privilege of loudness. >> There is no motorcycle setpiece in uh in 007 First Light. You don't They only show you the cool Triumph. They don't let you ride it. I was comparing it to the car stuff >> like just the the fact that you like you're driving but you're not actually driving. >> We'll see. Maybe you will get to drive and like go on different but I mean you can see ahead. It looks like it is just straight like a highway. >> You probably can just like move left and right and then you'll have a QT every once in a while. >> Assuming it doesn't do it automatically for you. Yeah. >> Tear the beast. The hand is ready. >> Ah yes cuz we we got the hand as well in this. So, that's exciting, isn't it? >> I'm sure I'm sure it'll be great. >> Go get Spider-Man to beat him up. >> Most people I see clearly, >> but you those models look all ugly. >> That is That is That is Death Strike. Yeah, Lady Death Strike. >> Yeah, but she had the pink energy around the the blade. That's the >> Well, I don't know what I don't know. No, you're right. That is actually that's a that's a fair point. But yes, that is uh Lady Death Strike. >> She's the fingernails. >> Okay. >> Yeah. No, but but you pointed out the sword and it's like well, who knows then, I guess. But yeah. >> Yeah, this does look like this does look worse than certain PS3 games. Not even like fidelity, just like how >> fidelity because I think you it would have to be considered that like from a fidelity standpoint it's pretty impressive. >> Well, I'm thinking like like God of War 3 like looks really cool and this looks like extremely ugly. >> This game looks like it has no >> I think I think it looks lame, but like the actual the actual like fidelity is seems like it's pretty high. I mean like I mean like the >> I mean like the cinematography and the lighting and stuff. >> Yeah. The the faces have a real >> they have a real >> Yeah. uncanny valley effect I'm getting constantly through this where it's like they've tried to go too realistic but they are pulling it off and so it's just in that real bad you know uncali uncanny valley area and it just makes me go gh just in >> cuz like look at that. That looks awful. >> This trailer is just telling me we're going to have lots of set pieces with people you recognize from the comics. >> No, I do I do enjoy that. There is not a single line of dialogue in this trailer that's been >> Wait, are his eyes nearly over? >> What is going on? >> Well, you it looks like he's melting and that's all that's left is the skeleton. >> [groaning and screaming] >> Oh, that's something that's probably worth talking about. I've heard a few of the screams. I am not very impressed. Uh, it feels like he's holding it feels like he doesn't want to hurt his voice. Like he's kind of holding back a little bit. >> Have you seen the behind the scenes of uh Hugh Jackman recording the >> for the X-Men movies like it's Yeah, it's crazy. >> Awesome. >> That's what you need. Well, it was always going to be hard to like go against him and for comparisons, which is absolutely going to happen. They cannot recast Wolverine while he is alive. That is just the case. >> Yeah, whether it's another movie or whether it is a game like this, it is another comparison. >> I bet he would have done voice acting for this if he had the time. Even moap. No way. No, they would have had to pay so way more money than they would want to pay. There's no way. There's no way. No way. >> Don't paid Jack Quap. Even if you aren't like shouting like for some character like Wolverine, like the like voice acting for a character in a video game, like there's so many lines and like variations and deliveries involved that your your throat's going to [ __ ] kill. >> Yeah. >> After you're done in any case. >> So, it's like, you know, if you've got that job, like just go for it. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, your throat's going to hurt at the end of it. >> Just do the yelling at the end. >> That's the job. >> [laughter] >> Well, that that that would be a smart way to do it. Yeah, just save the intense lines at the end like all the shouty stuff. Do that. Do that. That's the last part that you would do. >> Just can't let a man rest in peace. Can you >> don't make games? >> Yeah. Not very exciting, is it? >> No. >> Oh. Oh, yes. The floopy. This is the uh the commercial, which means that there's a conspicuous lack of blood in this one cuz this one is going to this one is clearly meant to be on like TV >> and and not actual gameplay. >> No, because it's it's something that I've noticed that like a lot Sony they really like for their like all of their games to have like some sort of like CGI trailer uh for for like ads. That seems to be something that they do for basically every first party game that they make is they have like a one minute long, >> you know, ad. And then you notice because Yeah. It's like there's not a lot of blood. Like you'll notice as you watch this one there's no blood because it's a commercial that's going to like air on TV >> which means you can't do that. >> It's all started to blur together. >> Yeah. I see the blood punched right there. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> The water splash. Just make one with blood and one without and you can just like remove the blood. That can't be that. >> I don't know. I mean, it's I doubt it's about that. It's It's got to be It's just You can't You're not You know, cuz it's a commercial, so can't have any blood. >> You have like the one that's on TV not have blood and then put the one with blood everywhere else >> with real time graphics. That would be fairly easy and quick. >> Pre-rendered, right? Yeah, >> that's the thing, right? every fight >> or cut away. It's >> not even blood on his claws. >> No, you can't. It's an ad. It's a commercial. >> He's a good guy. >> I know. It just still looks dumb. >> It's like when in Black Panther, he gets impaled and there's just no blood. >> Yeah. And a lot of stuff. >> And like the idea of a pre-rendered TV commercial, too. It's like you're specifically marketing the normies that probably aren't like following video game YouTube channels and Twitter and stuff and they will think this is what the game is actually going to look like too and that they're >> I guess people are a little bit silly when it comes to what they expect out of uh video games like even today. You can't achieve you can't reach this level of fidelity in real time graphics like not we probably won't get close to this for like another 10 or 15 years >> especially now with hardware and >> oh there look at him sabertooth. Wow. >> Hold on. [groaning and screaming] >> Put that photo in his pocket or something. >> Yeah I know. >> Yeah. No you probably should. Yeah but >> she just keeps on trapping it. They didn't even they didn't run over [laughter] the guy. >> Slipping away. >> No. >> Yeah. Put it in your pocket. You [laughter] >> look man, I just think like if if I'm a henchman, I'm going to try to avoid getting into a fist fight with Wolverine on top of a moving vehicle. Whatever they're paying me, it's not enough. I'm not going up there. >> You be that one henchman in uh in Iron Man 3. Like, dude, I hate working for these guys. Right. A good joke in Iron Man 3. Okay. That is kind of like a trope that I do like that the sensible henchman who's just like, "Look, I'm you do whatever. I'm leaving. I'm out of here. I don't get I'm just like everyone except >> here's the password. I'm leaving [laughter] in the middle of the New York." >> Well, this is this is uh Japan. This this this looks like a ginger. >> I thought it was magore. Or is that later? Cuz they have the the eye patch Wolverine. >> This a wiener Arkansas. I can tell you that. >> See, look. He got hit, but there's no blood. >> Damn it. >> They're not even red lines. Flashing his mask with no blood. >> Who is he? Who was he? No. >> No. A picture of me. There won't be anything left except rage. >> Rage. >> Wow. >> A world where the X-Men never existed, but Gan and Wolverine have like a history. >> Well, but also this is the Spider-Man universe, and the Spider-Man universe has like the Avengers and stuff. Um, it it's it is a wellestablished >> like world with well-known heroes. So, you know, >> Nelson Murdoch law office is in the first game. >> No, they got they got lots of stuff in this world. So, we'll see how it integrates. >> Well, do these trailers work for anybody, by the way, like these CGI trailers. >> Nothing about that makes me want to buy the game. It looks like a like a low to midbudget 3D animated movie, which I'm not interested in. So, in the narrative, the ninjas know they can't stop him. >> I presumably not. Otherwise, I guess they wouldn't be trying to be like, "Hey, this guy's invincible." So, >> like all the men with guns like, you know, like is there going to be a narrative reason that explains why he's constantly fighting henchmen that just have like normal weapons that are not going to stop him or >> Well, you know, they can slow him down. Maybe maybe you shoot enough and he just falls over. >> Maybe maybe that's the hope. health bar. >> I think that was dead henchman's final thoughts. >> Oh, fully explorable. I wonder what that >> full of Easter eggs like. >> Well, I mean, you see this for 5 seconds. Yeah, this is QAB. >> This is QAB. [laughter] >> Oh boy. I'm sure all everybody. >> Can I Can I talk to that guy over there? >> Oh, no. Nobody gets to see much of it. >> You get the triangle to tell you where to go. Okay. Shut up. Oh, okay. >> Saber-tooth canonically Easter egg >> with Insomniac Spider-Man games like the swinging and like like that that was a big part of like the incentive to buy it and finish it with the swinging and also it had just enough depth. I'm not saying the combat was deep, but it had just enough depth to hold my interest enough to like be able to finish it. And also in combination with the story, it unfolded in such a way that I was just like, you know, I got to the end of it, at least the first the first Spider-Man game, and I was like I was all right. I thought that was okay. But here >> Yeah. So do I. But with with Wolverine, it's like [ __ ] you don't have the swinging. The story looks uh maybe it's fine. I don't I don't know. I don't know enough about it. Like from what I've seen from the cutscenes, it looks I don't know. There's nothing like that compelling about it. Gameplaywise, it certainly doesn't have a lot to pull in players. I feel like >> like it it just feels like a a sort of generic third person sort of thing. Yeah, >> we should we should remember this tweet for a number of reasons, but the idea that it says Yeah, the princess bar um which is fully explorable. What do you mean fully explorable? Like as in it's a place that you can just sort of walk around and then press the triangle button >> wherever you see floor and no one's standing on the floor. You can stand on that floor. >> Yeah. >> Can I go to the bathroom? >> No. >> Can I go to the kitchen? >> Can I do anything to like build it up as a location? Is there stuff that I can unlock there? I can expand the location. >> Easter eggs though. >> No. All right, cool. >> What about western eggs? >> Take the top shelf. Earn it. >> Go over the top. >> Tap the square button. >> Yeah, tap the buttons. >> I don't know, man. He's just like twice. His arm's like twice Wolverine's size. How are you possibly >> Wolverine's? Well, he's buff, man. He's buff of soul, you know. Soul buff. >> That's absurd, though. [clears throat] Look at how big he is. Look at how big and strong he is. And you win the QT and you still lose. >> Do your best. >> All right. >> Talk about a sore winner. Jeez. >> You want to call the shots? Kick Essex's ass. Take charge. [groaning and screaming] >> You won't. You just animation looks suits you. >> The eyes the eyes are too still. There's no they don't the brows don't furrow. You don't see those crease lines in the face. He should be like he should be emoting like he's acting. >> He's like a flat line. The his eyebrows >> very not feeling it at all. >> He's very crow magnan. >> Isn't that kind of like detailed facial expression the whole reason Sony has put as many resources as they have into full facial capture production as opposed to just having things be animated by hand? Gollum even had the dots on the pieces the behind [laughter] the scenes. >> That was legendary. >> We can animate candidly now. >> Be here. You're right. >> I thought you were back. We were back. >> Dude, the delivery, man. I can't I can't hear it. Is anything trying to be gruff? It's not naturally gruff. It's trying to be gruff. But you ain't never coming back. >> You slash him and it'll heal. >> Yeah. >> Oh, and then he goes and runs off to cry. >> Yeah. >> Come on, Vic. >> You can still hear his footsteps. There's nothing else going on. >> He's running off to cry. >> Little Sabertooth Juncoid. walks away like the Michael Cere development. >> Wait, say can >> nice. [laughter] >> This opening moment >> really sets the tone for how damn awesome this game is. >> It looks like his arms are still moving even before you hit the button. So, this is probably just going to do it for you if you got to press I'm certain that's the case, metal, that if you don't press it, it'll automatically >> promise everyone forever. >> Everyone here who streams this game is going to say, "What if I don't press the button?" >> Just going to see what happens. >> How fast does Wolverine heal in the comics? Cuz I thought it wasn't like completely instantaneous. I thought it took a little while. >> Fairly quickly. like cuz he like it grazed his uh face and then it was instantly healed. Like I thought that would have taken like a minuteish to be like fully healed. >> I always thought if it like smaller wounds it's fairly quick but if he like get I don't know exploded. >> I'm going to go ahead and assume it's going to take a while. >> Gameplay regen is probably not even synced with cutscene regen as well. >> No regenerates. >> But what does even a fail state look like when you're Wolverine? The thing that's been shown, it seems like >> you get knocked down and then if you you you got to press like the square button a bunch and then that just recovers your health and you can fight again. >> Yeah, that's not >> so I will be curious about how easy this game is with that in mind. >> Oh yeah, cuz this the Spider-Man games are insanely easy. Like you play on the hardest mode and they're not very hard at all and not very fun because of that. And Wolverine basically can't die. So, how are you going to make it an interestingly challenging game at all? >> Well, I mean, I guess there's still you even with a character who can't die, you can still have fail states. Like you can make it so that he has he has to save a person before they're killed or like disarm a bomb before it blows up and kills a bunch of other people, you know, like it's not impossible, but >> complex >> more so than for a game that wants to rely on QDs to quite this extent. >> I assume there would be no such fail states, Mark. I assume it will be exclusively just death. >> Yeah, >> we'll find out in a couple weeks. >> Well, I I think it depends on whether you're in a cutscene or gameplay. I've read a bit about this. Like I imagine in game play like well it was the gameplay that I read about and if if you die in game play and like you have you have a a rage meter in the game play and you like there's like three things that you can fill up and if you have one and you die if you have one bit of your rage meter filled up that will like give you like a revival and then it it'll put you in this state of like killing all the enemies that are or actually No, no, no. If if you ha if you have one, that'll just give you a revival and that's it. But if you if you have all three filled up, that can put you in this like berserk rage mode where you kill everyone on the screen. >> That very predictable. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think if you're in a cutscene though, I imagine it'll be like in Miles Morales. I think maybe Spider-Man 2, maybe even Spider-Man one. I can't remember where like it'll just like if it wants you to press a button, it'll just slow down >> the action increasingly until it like literally just pauses >> until you press the [ __ ] button where there's literally no fail state. >> I feel like they're just going to do that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, >> we love those. It's really good gameplay. >> Oh, I guess we should probably judge the old the old roar there. >> Uh what's the shown? And it's the opening roar. >> The opening of the game. >> I don't know about that. >> I don't know. It just feels like you're holding back a little bit, dude. Like it it just feels like that. >> That's That's him, you know? He's like sort of he's perturbed, but he's not angry. >> He's expressing mild discontent right now. And I feel like he's matching that energy level. what it feels like. It feels like all the 3D models have like a limit on the I guess exaggeration you can push in the expressions. Like there's a limitation or something. >> Yeah. Like cuz >> his mouth didn't didn't even seem like it was as open as you know as what even Hugh Jackman reaches when he roars and stuff like it. Feels like it was all just everything was restricted and therefore artificial. >> Did they hire a Do we know who they like had to do all the mocap and stuff for Wolverine? done voice acting before. He's um >> Is he the Is he the mo cap actor as well? >> Yeah. Yeah, he's doing everything. Like he's he's done voice acting before, so it seems to be like a real he's familiar with. >> I'm sure he has. It just feels like it's not uh it's not it's not, you know, it's like you don't want to you don't want to hurt your voice. That's just kind of what it feels like. >> All right, let me let me ask this. Did you jump or yell more recently? >> Yell. I have trouble jumping. I yelled with yelling video. I don't know. >> It's just jumping is not something that you do very often. >> Yep. >> One of my legs doesn't have an articulating ankle. Like seriously, jumping is a tough thing for me to do on a good day. >> [ __ ] On my position. >> Get him. Wolver. >> I'm not moving closer. I like how they move closer to Wolverine. the guys with guns, they like actively get a lot closer to him instead of backpedaling very far away to shoot him at a distance. >> Something about the fact that >> you can see it transitioning from cutscene to game play. And I feel like if I was just, I don't know, drugged and out of my mind on a chair and some guy just goes, "And what would happen next?" Like I'm the kind of muse or mystic elder to get the information from. It's like it would suggest a leap. It's like how would I do that? It's like R2 and square or R1 and square like and then what >> you flying towards them. >> Yes. The limit of which would be about four meters. Maybe you could upgrade it to five. [laughter] >> It was shown in the extended point. So it feels like spacing is not going to be too important cuz it's going to be really easy for the player to get wherever they need to be at any moment to fight them instead of having to think about where they're positioned relative to the bad guys. I don't know. >> Negate strategy because what why would you need to be dealing with strategy if you can just lunge immediately straight towards like any enemy? >> Maybe we'll see the clip in this here, but I know there's a there's like a gameplay clip that was getting shared around on Twitter and stuff and all of the enemies are almost like perfectly spaced away from each other to where they wouldn't >> like they wouldn't really be able to interact with the player as they were doing their their their chain combos on the one enemy, killing them and moving to the next. And I'm like, man, you just can't you can't do that or there's there's like nothing really going on. The enemies can't like cover each other or do anything. They're like a perfect distance apart from one another. You just leap one kill combo. Leap one kill combo and just do that over and over and that's the game. >> That is pretty much what Spider-Man is like, too. >> Certainly hope it's better. >> Well, at the very least, >> gonna be getting a Dark Tide experience here. Spider-Man had this swinging going for it and and but here it's just like third person guy running around doing close quarters combat with people and so the selling point is going to be is going to have to be the story but given what we've seen from the cutscenes I don't know I I feel like the story isn't that strong. I mean, may maybe it's hasn't been represented well, but like >> I want to be wrong, but like I don't have high hopes for it. >> The trailer did a poor job of showing what it might be. The trailers seem to lean into like these are all the most explosive pre-rendered cut scenes we've already done, so we'll just chuck all of them in with very little thought for any kind of narrative basing within the trailer or any kind of real like anything to grasp by way of story. But I think you're right about because I'm trying to work out why watching all of this I have absolutely [ __ ] all to say about it and I think it's there just there's just no hook. I don't know what the hook is. The gameplay doesn't look great and the story I don't know what it is. So >> yeah, >> what I guess Sony games generally are not this gory. I guess Ghost is >> God in comparison to Spider-Man in the >> I guess God of War mostly fighting like monsters and the blood's often different colors. I I think that already running through that in my head I would say actually more often than not Sony games are like bloody >> my head people in half Ragnarok you do >> God of War >> every they got rid of all the gore in those games don't you remember >> oh yeah that's right yeah there's no gore from what I've been from what I've heard from a verified true patriot source >> maybe that was just a thought that was stemming from the Insomniac games specifically because it's like and Ratchet and Clank. >> Which is funny. I said the combat in this actually looks kind of most like Ghost of Tsushima but with lunging >> from very very far away. >> Yeah. >> Oh yeah, true. Maybe against people with guns. >> Yeah. In comparison to Spider-Man in the with the absence of swinging, like the story is going to have to be like the best [ __ ] thing ever. And I don't think it's going to be. So, >> well, I guess gotten any story. Well, that's the thing. In mild defense, I feel like I have no idea what the story of this game actually is, even after watching those trailers. So, I mean, >> yeah, >> if it was good, I think they would have shown us some. It's just like, look, you know, this character, they're going to be in this game. It just slashy slashies. >> They seem so concerned with like just what the vibe of the thing is going to be as opposed to anything about what the thing itself is. And I mean maybe though even if the story is just acceptable if the melee combat was particularly satisfying but I haven't seen anything yet that tells me that that is I mean it doesn't feel particularly weighty or like it wants you to think it's really impactful but kind of isn't it at least it doesn't look or feel that way. Obviously I don't with a controller in my hand so it might change when I play the thing but there's nothing about that stands out either which you think given it's a Wolverine game would be one of the most important things to nail. Right. >> I I mean I it's not coming to PC, so but but I would be curious to be like, man, when you when you're used to games that really have like really good melee combat, even in first person, that's like horde management and different kinds of enemies and stuff and how, you know, deep they can be and how skill expressive they can be. I was like, man, this just isn't going to measure up at all, is it? Not based on what I've seen. >> Not based on >> Did they confirm that it's never coming to PC? I I don't remember if they said that. >> Maybe it will at launch for sure. >> Current plan for Sony, at least as far as they've stated, is that they're no longer porting their single player games to PC because that's what they want to use to sell their hardware. That's probably going to be $1,000. >> Yeah, I thought they go. >> But yeah, those kind of plans though tend to change as they realize they're not making enough money. >> Yeah. Well, now that consoles are extra expensive, that's an interesting strategy instead of just I'll just buy your I'll buy your game on the on the box I already have my my computer. No, you want me to buy Oh, yeah. Well, I'm not doing that. >> It's going to be so interesting, though. It's like the weirdly the one of the things I'm most interested about it is that it's been probably two years since I touched my PS5. I got it out earlier like to start setting it up for when this get out. Just And yeah, it's honestly the whole [ __ ] thing is covered in dust. Everything. >> I don't even know where the power cable is. I think the last time I got it out was for that. Um, was it Sons of Sparta? God of War Sons of Sparta. >> You can play your PlayStation. Does it not gather dust? >> I hope it does. >> Well, how underwhelming Wolverine is seems to now have forced the the loss of one of us in exchange for another returning >> someone. Um, Joe Danger, you're going to you're going to be awake for the whole thing, right? That was your plan. >> Yeah. So, you're going to you're going to return to chat from whence you came temporarily. Perhaps perhaps you will return. Who can say? But hey, appreciate you. Okay. Thank you for all your stuff. >> Happy 48 years. Yay. >> Thank you, buddy. >> Later, Joe. >> Subscribe to Grumbo Industries. >> Later, Joe. >> Yeah. Oh, see you, dude. >> Later, man. As you can see, I'm very much speedy and just just uh definitely quick of mind right now and and in complete control and not at all very very tired. I I I'm actually like tempted to keep you know what you said was technically correct uh Fringy, but we have passed one of the breaks and so we are more accurately closer to the completion times. >> That is absolutely true. It's just that what I what I meant before was that we are we are like not close to the end. >> Um like I said, I often feel [laughter] that way. It's gotten dark now. It's gotten dark again. So, it's like No, no, no. Not with the way that it works. It's It's >> Oh, God. It's getting a while. >> It's dark. >> I mean, it's >> No, now it's >> it's 200 p.m. So, >> yeah. I don't I try not to think about it. Maybe I shouldn't. >> Um, but we've got we got our full gaming gang nearly, I think, once >> Gamers Rise. >> There he is. Beautiful. We're talking about Wolverine based on the famous Wolf character. >> Oh boy. I sure do love me a video game. >> That's your favorite character, Theo, right? Like ever. >> Yeah. This is the guy who like regenerates from [ __ ] being written out of the story, I guess. >> He just regenerates into culture cuz he's so gosh darn popular. >> This is the [groaning] Deadpool character, right? May as well be. Webcam and screen share not available in rooms with 10 users. Why you even watch together? Go away. >> Oh, do you notice that popped up ages ago? That was uh before. Well, people earlier on. >> Well, apparently you got privilege or something cuz I didn't get it until now. They delivered this to me late. I >> No, it probably popped up and you just you just missed it. That's probably what happened. >> You're too focused on the gameplay a little. >> Yeah, I seriously doubt that cuz it gone in the way of the [ __ ] controls. That's why it was so notable. >> Ah, okay. All right. Oh, wow. Look, that that is pretty inset. Can we Can we rewind by like 10 seconds there? We can indeed. Do you you do a lunge and then a stab and then it's a cut scene again. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. It's a tutorial. It's a tutorial. >> First thing you do is you do a leap and then it prompts you to do a stab [groaning] and then Yeah. And then it's a cut scene. >> This is the tutorial. Why are you being such a [ __ ] I don't know how to play the game. [laughter] >> Why advertise this though? This is the most boring part. >> I know. >> There is a fundamental disconnect because there was a certain group of the audience. That's that this is the selling point. Look at how like movie like it is. Look at how the spectacle. Look at how crazy it is and how seamless it is too. >> Yeah. >> I'm trying to control the buttons I press over here. there's like a an audience that's very much uh on board with this. I just don't understand how you don't perceive it as like insulting essentially. The game's like playing with its toys and then every now and then it'll like, you know, off-handedly hand one to you because I guess, you know, maybe you can press some buttons too if you want. But I'm I'm busy being Wolverine over here, dude. Like try not to get in the way. when you're a rage beast, you I I just the basic thing for me and it just doesn't get achieved by watching this stuff is I just want to be able to slash away like crazy and watch limbs and blood fly everywhere, especially on the like lower level enemies >> and already it just feels so odd rails and you're like, "Bro, you haven't seen much yet." I've played these games before. >> Yeah. I don't know what's wrong with the old version where you just get thrown into a bulk of enemies and it tells you on screen. Press these three buttons to do things. You can combo them, go crazy, and then you get to kill like 20 enemies and it's like, oh yeah, okay, I see how this works. Then we move on. >> Broken record. >> Devil's first two levels are just here's a bunch of enemies, hit them. >> God of War games, that's they throw you on the chip on the first one. It's like here's your buttons, press them, have fun. Yeah, >> I don't think there's a risk with Wolverine either of like, oh, he died, the player is going to be taken out because he can just regenerate. So, if the player fails tutorial, it doesn't matter. >> Well, in the um X-Men Origins Wolverine game, which is fun despite the assumption because you'll be like, "Oh, movie tie-in of that era usually is kind of just [ __ ] right?" But there there was fun stuff to it, but it really was you had a big health bar and you had pretty solid regen, but you really can just if you hit enough times, you just fall over and you're dead. And I was like, "Oh, it didn't feel so great on the front of like, oh, Wolverine, [ __ ] fine, >> right?" >> Especially on the hardest difficulty. But at the same time, I guess that's a difficult problem to solve, but you really do like when it's Batman or Spider-Man or whoever else, like you got to kind of morph the game mechanics to making you feel like you are that hero, right? Yeah, it does feel like a bit of a difficult problem to solve cuz regen's sort of like an awkward mechanic to have in a game like this because at its worst case, what it's going to encourage you to do is if you get in trouble, you're just going to disengage and run around while you heal. >> And then pretty antithetical to the fantasy, I'd feel. >> Mhm. >> And that'll encourage the game to trap you in a bunch of rooms and arenas where you can't in order to disincentivize that. And that might seem a bit strange if in a Wolverine game all of a sudden like demon shields like in the original Cogn [laughter] up and trap you in an arena. >> Welcome. >> Oh, so much fog as well. Straight away forward. >> Yeah, just running. Oh, wow. Look at that. >> I think forward again. >> You can see the cut scenes. Yeah, >> look at the awkward way the bodies separate. The wall just parted. >> It [laughter] just blowed away. Yeah. >> Story will be dark. >> How did they not see him? >> This story will be dark. >> Yeah, cuz it was dark. >> Well, he was sloshing around in the >> money. Jesus. >> Hey. Hey. Hey. Speak to me. Spector. >> I don't know. He just sounded like that. >> Hold still. Okay, [snorts] you came back. [panting and sighs] >> I don't think that was that tight around your neck. >> Where are the others? >> It gives him his powers back presumably is why he's doing >> the dirty work as usual. >> Oh no. >> There we go. >> I see that grass. >> I see I see [laughter] >> the prompted take down that completely crazy. It used to be that you would manually have to jump on people and then your character would do the stealth take down. >> And it's more fun. Damn it. >> More rewarding. >> This is all just scripted. If I just press the button, it does everything for me. Great. >> And that's part of what we were just alluding to. It's like, so I can do this as Bond or Tomb Raider or Wolverine or Batman or just like just [ __ ] everybody, you know, Joe Johnsonman. He just does it too cuz everybody [ __ ] does this. Not a lot of tall grass in Metal Gear Solid 5. You have to think about the terrain. Of >> course, you want to talk about >> Oh, and more talking, too. >> Man, >> the grass isn't even moving aside. It's just clipping through him through most of that >> cuz this is exactly the kind of stealth you should expect in a game like this. >> Sitting in front of a log so that it can be like, "Hey." And then you can you can grab the wall. any other coat of paint onto this you want and you have any other video game. >> Oh, everyone has played this stuff. >> You already pointed out the absurdity of a Wolverine game with stealth >> because every [ __ ] game has to have stealth now >> and it's always >> you know what's crazy too is like when like Splinter Cell let's do Splinter Cell Blacklist as an example. I really like Splinter Cell Blacklist and so many people were like like oh this the stealth is so watered down and everything and then it's like that's crazy because there there's so many things you could do in that game and people were saying that game had watered down stealth in terms of crawl around jump up earlier games you could maybe that point but the thing is is that now like blacklist is like downright complex compared to where stealth is at now. I love blacklist recent trend where you do a stealth section and the your character just keeps talking to himself >> or to well Mel the the the [ __ ] you know you you you do the strike where you jump on it you leap on him go it's like blah [clears throat] blah blah and a few me away it's going to be a guy who's like huh >> well yes that's the funny PART [laughter] it would be to kill someone with claws without them making noise. >> Well, yeah, cuz it's and then the guy just like >> I don't mind the idea as an opener, but it's like it should be this should be the sort of stealth game where like you get caught in the first takedown and then you have to fight because it's a [ __ ] Wolverine game. >> Wolverine. Yeah. >> Wolfenstein New Blood was or New Order was kind of like that where you do stealth as long as you could and then thing, you know, [ __ ] would you break out. But there >> Yeah, maybe. Maybe it's like it's not supposed to be like a stealth game. You just do it as long as you can until it kind of but I don't know. >> I I'm sure the stealth has been implemented here with no care. Like it doesn't matter to the levels if you do it or not. >> It's like obligatory check on stealth in Spider-Man is very interesting either. But at least there's verticality to it as well. Whereas here it's like well Wolverine so be like on the ground. >> Fist lights was basically just like it's there if you want it. I I don't know. [ __ ] you. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Hey, you muted. If you wanted to say something. >> Yeah, you're saying something right now. You're Yeah, we can't hear you. >> You have chosen the path of silence. >> Sorry about that. Um, uh, I was just saying the the grass here looks really underwhelming. And I'm sorry to keep bringing up Spider-Man, but if you're going to get away from like swinging in an openw world environment as in that game, like I feel like you got to like concentrate a lot of fidelity into like the close quarters intimacy of like a Wolverine game. And like I I'm going to bring up >> robust. >> I'm going to bring up another game that I know everyone probably hates here, but The Last of Us 2 did did Grass better than this where it like it like bends. >> A lot of games probably >> Star Wars Outlaws might have done grass better than this. Honestly, >> honestly, I get the point that you're making though. Uh I get the point you're making, Sean. And it's like, well, there's a difference between what you're going to be doing with like an open world game that mainly is keeping you up in the air versus a linear game that's got you on the ground. You would kind of expect that the the linear sections would be of a greater level of quality essentially because they're very focused, deliberate, structured levels compared to like an open world where, you know, there's kind of like a lot of emergent things that are a bit harder to control or like a bit harder to sort of have that level of consistent quality across an entire, you know, map compared to something linear. But like I'm not seeing that I'm not seeing that trade as being beneficial in these clips right now. Yeah, looking at the grass in this video, it feels like they're just like bit maps that that you're just like transitioning through and it's not having any physical effect. Like your character going through them isn't having any effect on like their positionality. I wonder like the way they're bending one way or another. >> Yeah. >> Like if you you decided to do some slashing in the grass, would it cut in a way that would reveal where you are? Is there any way to set it on fire? >> I know the answer to that question. [laughter] >> Far Cry 2 had all those years ago. That's what my >> this assertion that you would slash in a Wolverine game. I thought this was stealth man. >> I thought this was Solid Snake. >> Delterine. Solid Wolverine. Honestly, it feels similar to the kind of tech that you would see in an N64 game where it's just that billboard [laughter] texture that's facing you no matter what way you're looking at it and you pass through it and it doesn't have any physical effect on the grass. >> Hey, but it blurs when it gets to the foreground because depth of field. >> And you know what's going to happen? >> You'll make all these points and someone will go, "It's a Wolverine game. Who cares about the stealth?" >> Yeah, >> you put it in there. Who cares about You spend your $300 million budget. >> Remember the Bond games shouldn't have good handling on the cars because cars aren't going to do with Bond. All right. [laughter] >> And then you figure out stupid series of statements racing. >> Literally how I learned that Aston Martins exist. But that's okay. Whatever. >> And then you learn they they had people there that made racing games. So they make sure they have really good driving. And the driving sucks. You know what I just noticed as well is there's like a floop blue thing on the side to show you where the enemy is because why use your eyes to just remember where they are. >> And you know what? You know what the response to that is? Uh idiot. He's Wolverine. His heightened senses will show these detections. >> Smell [clears throat] idiot. You make choices about what you do or don't put in the game. >> Well, you press the buttons, buddy. >> I don't think anyone beat a video game before 2020. They were all way too hard. >> Yeah, >> they're also to give them some credit. This game was far lower budget than Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man 2 cost 315 million. I'm going somewhere with this. And this game only cost 305 million. [laughter] >> I can tell this looks like a really good video game. >> Don't want to talk. >> Oh no. >> Yeah. >> Are you Are you team red line or yellow paint? >> God damn it. [laughter] >> Three line. There's so many things, but like the [ __ ] red line's ahead of the dude. [laughter] >> Yep. >> That shows you where the red ninja is on the wall that you're allowed to travel. >> And once again, actually um um actually he can sense him with his heightened senses. So this does make sense actually. >> Just make it play Witcher 3. That's a big one I've heard. >> You ever played Deadlock? Just plays a Drifter. If I had to guess, the visual of this scene is just so [ __ ] that like the test players just couldn't keep up without the red line because it's such a blurry mess of like overdetailed level design. >> You can only go one way though. You can't. Sorry. You should probably just play video games. [laughter] Like, is he gonna red man? >> Honestly, give him a give him a little shinobi PS2 scarf if you want to give him a little red trail >> or just like have him if you get too far away, you have to follow the clues like knocked over trash cans, really big people pointing. >> That's not fun. Rags, that's not fast. That's not epic or suspect. >> It would be faster if you just had a red line. Also, his claw connect to this to the rope there as well. >> By the way, you should look at the guy he's following and when they get to the fighting part, you should look to the right hand side of the screen and see where he jumps to. It's really [ __ ] funny. >> Okay, >> the hell >> did he jump? Did he jump through that uh that solid that >> jumps like up on that on that roof on the right? It's really funny. >> Honestly, I think I would prefer a waypoint fixed on the character rather than the red pheromone trail or whatever. >> I prefer if it's limited by tap L1 to sniff. >> It's like you lose. >> Oh my gosh. [laughter] >> No, honestly, if you're going to move in that direction, just just don't even make me press buttons. Like, [ __ ] off and just give me your points. But Theo, people are getting lost. They go, they go, they just stop and they put the game down and they stop playing. We have to solve this. >> Yeah, true. This is a problem that >> 0.1 percentile of people is like to get lost in such a manner that they stop playing the entire game. >> Oh, yeah. This is a games journalist difficulty level, right? >> Well, like when we try this, it want to go left and right and either it just auto fails you or it just drags you back and it's like, "No, I got to keep getting him. I can't let him go. I can't let him go. >> That's what it would say that. Yeah. Yeah. And And then it will loop if you do it too much because they only recorded like three. They just be like, "No, you lose. Try again." If the target gets too far away, right? Try again. >> Yeah. I I prefer I prefer the honesty of God. You lost. >> It's going to scare the fans off. >> Well, how doesn't even have a refund policy. If even if you hate this, you can't refund it if you bought it on their store where apparently they sell 95% of their games. >> So like they're lying about something. >> Time for this. >> I'll cover you as best I can from here. >> This is in the prison. Get ahead. >> Dude, I'm running against gunfire. >> Oh, I so lament. And it's so it's so abs cuz it's insomniac as well. I know that obviously we're all going to be talking about the fact that oh wow, run forward and big explosions. Wow, exciting. Um, but man, I really do lament the death of the clean break between cutscenes and gameplay that used to be present in so many games. And in the case of Ratchet and Clank, Ratchet and Clank don't say anything >> outside of like outside of cutscenes. When when you're just in the level, like until you get to the cut scene, there's no talking. It's just the game play. But we've gotten so and and I think what's annoying as well is that even when there were games that started to do it more, they had a lot more restraint. Like Infamous conveys much of its story through phone calls that are happening while you're playing the game. But number one, you have complete control over the character in those sequences. You don't there's no like slow walking sequences. And number two, there was less dialogue. There just was less. >> Like there used to be less even of this. Like if you go back and look at the older Uncharted, there would be a lot less dialogue in gameplay compared to now. It's like nonstop constantly. >> And they [ __ ] this up in like both directions because now they also take away your controls and show you the thing to look at instead of you just looking around with my camera controls to see the thing that looks nice. Like look at this nice nice landscape. Like yeah, I could just look at that myself after I got into this area. There was no need for you to take away all my controls and just zoom in. [clears throat] >> thing offensive that they take control away from me to make me look because that makes me not want to look. >> Very ableist. >> This car this character is doing the player is doing the Rick on Stark technique of just beline straight while being fired at and he's not getting hit still too. So it's not even like you have to dodge here. >> You know for a fact as well >> get hit but you somehow get experience for being shot. If you push left and right, it'll have little barriers that are weak. So, you'll move, but it'll be like pushed back over them, too. >> Yeah. >> And someone else that people were pointing out is in the bottom left. I I think you'll see it, but he's just gaining experience points, >> right? Yeah. >> Wait, seriously? >> Oh, come on. >> Experience [laughter] for that. >> I love that. Are the guns hitting things behind him and he's just getting experience for kills in a game like this? >> It doesn't feel like a game that should have XP, but I guess it does. >> I [ __ ] love me a good skill tree by the end. >> Spider-Man 2's got like five skill trees. No joke. >> Are they good? >> But it's all boring because it's not it's not real role playing because it's not real tradeoffs. You'll eventually just get everything. Yeah, >> even then it's it's the contrast of the arcadey like you're oh we're playing a video game you're getting experience points and this is a movie we need to have these action sequences and these seamless transitions from cutscene to gameplay. Um I don't know I just >> No, it it is that logic. It's it's the reason why it has sequences like this. It's the reason why there's the talking. It's this notion that you're doing a better job of being a story game if you have like the story occurring in gameplay through characters talking or like set pieces that give you some amount of control but they strip away a little bit or potentially a lot. Um that it's better to have slow walking where characters talk to each other than to just do all of the story and cutscenes and then when it's gameplay there's no talking and it's just you know mechanics and design unfilling you know in front of you. Yeah. >> Go. Very exciting. >> Why do you even bother? >> Oh. Oh. Oh my. Oh my god. I I love this mech. I love this mechanic that's been in every action game for the last 20 years. >> Black and white. But blood. >> I'm sorry. That blood looks like [ __ ] >> Very bright. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. The way that's on the ground, it's almost like it's casting shadows. Why is the blood >> cuz it's a weird the weird thing with this rage mode that is it's just like >> so many games been doing this for so long. Why would you say I love the mechanic as if it's like this unique thing as if it's just not in every action absolutely brutal finishing moves. Dude, >> his caption. >> It's ridiculous. >> You don't even need to because there's going to be a little thing he releases >> he releases a compilation with his commentary on it that we're going to look at. >> Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't like having the color drained from everything. Like it's >> But he's enraged. [snorts] You're not a true hunter. >> DMC Devil May Cry did [laughter] it and that was obvious. >> Actually, John, it makes sense because he has heightened senses. >> That is funny. Yes. It was [laughter] DMC Devil May Cry had a presented uh presented the devil trigger like uh like this. >> Yep. >> Something like that. >> It's fine if it's actually a contrast, but like it already looks kind of colorless. So now it's just more of that. Well, I'm I I I'm not I'm I'm sure you're probably making a joke, but like I don't remember Devil Trigger ever making any everything monochrome >> in DMC Devil May Cry the Devil May Cry. >> Yeah. Not not in like Devil May Cry 4. >> Yeah. Not >> 28 Days Later guy. Why am I forgetting his name right now? >> Killian movie. >> The guy. >> No, no, the guy who wrote it. Um >> Oh, I will say >> Fred. 28 years later. Help me out here. Danny Bole. >> No, the writer, >> Alan Garland. >> That's the one. >> Yeah, Alex Garland. He he wrote DMC Devil May Cry. >> It is funny though because as much as you know there's plenty to complain about with that game, DMC Devil May Cry is much more mechanically complex than this appears to be. >> Yeah, it is. It is actually a much better game than it gets credit for. Like it is it is a pretty fine to good action game. It just lives in the shadow of like >> the pinnacle of the genre. So it gets a bit of a bad rap and is also so actively spiteful to its like forebear. So you know that doesn't >> Did it come out before or after Devil May Cry 4? I wish I had four that came out after four. >> It was in the interim between four and five. >> After four before five. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> DMC is also hilarious to play. By the way, the cutscenes, holy [ __ ] >> Game's really fun. >> So [ __ ] It's not horribly boring to watch the [ __ ] cut scenes. >> No, it's not boring, but they're so cringe. But like in a hilarious way. [laughter] >> There's like a Bill O'Reilly demon. >> Oh, interesting. >> Well, that's that's a DMC Devil May Cry. That's right. I can't remember his name, but yes, you fight him. >> Oh, wow. Crazy finishing move. Stab him in the face. >> Sort of do a flip. >> Oh, that was a that was a that was a a lady. [groaning] >> At least the came off there finally. I I don't think I don't think it will ever not be disorienting to just be fighting like a random henchman and then you just hear a lady it's like oh >> oh that was a woman I killed [laughter] >> that was that's surprising >> iconic moment stalls outlaws where you kill seven in a road they're all women like [laughter] wait what >> I was actually >> something about 6,000 years of human civilization is like screaming at the back of my brain right now that something's not right but oh well here I here I go killing I guess >> well I I was playing Spider-Man 2 the other day on stream And it I was pretty put off by the fact that Spider-Man is just decking women left and right in that game because and like ones that are just like random people doing minor crime like it's like oh these people are like robbing this jewelry store. It's like well six out of the eight of them are women and Spider-Man's just kicking them in the face. It was really weird to see. >> That's really powers like just normal people. >> There's another. >> Doesn't this feel good? I know you missed this. >> Uh oh. Bor. Oh, wow. This is so impressive. >> I I do enjoy this cuz it's like Yeah. It's not like Assassin's Creed. >> It's not like Assassin's Creed 3 did the whole like you can do two guys at once like take down, you know, back in 2012 as like a flex of the animation. >> This is not impressive anymore. instead of one. Al >> the more I see this game play, the more it seems to be >> go up to one person, combo them to death, go up to the next person, combo them to death, go up to the next person to death is I want to see that I can like control Sabertooth and like set up combos and stuff. That's like what I want to see. Not not just >> cuz I'm pretty sure it's just the like attack or whatever. >> I want to be able to say focus S. >> Focus S. Focus invert again. Target acquired. >> Specialist, huh? >> Specialist, huh? Oh, no. [laughter] >> Wow. >> It looks like it's possible for enemies to interact with you when you're killing someone else. Maybe if they're close enough and have a range weapon. Maybe. >> Steel tree. Look at how exciting that >> is. Is that a tree? That's like top soil. I don't >> I guarantee this is going to be one of those games where it's better to not level up at all. It'll be like more difficult and interesting >> if you just never level up. >> There's going to be depth of choice because there's six abilities there and he only seems to have four slots in the bottom left corner. So, >> they're doing the thing. They're doing the thing where it says how much longer. >> Oh, that was my favorite aspect of Spider-Man 2 was how they removed my ability to have a weapon wheel of gadgets and then just made it four that I could do. I couldn't I couldn't use like eight or nine or 10 at the same time and switch between them whenever I wanted. I had to pick four. >> My favorite. >> I will say this mode of presentation where it like shows you the attack coming to the foreground is like kind of nice and all, but it's not showing you what it does to an enemy. So, it's >> the actual important. This is just for style. This is not useful feedback. Yeah, this is stuff that the Lord of the Rings games were doing. Whenever you showed a new enemy, show it. >> [ __ ] >> I finish him off. What does that mean? >> Well, keep shooting, I guess. >> One of these bullets is bound to be adamantium. >> No, focus on Wolverine. He's next. for Parker on Wolver. Yeah, >> we'll give him time to heal. >> We just miss every shot, by the way. >> Every obviously. >> Yeah, I don't see how that helicopter shooting. >> I mean, yeah, the guy with the rifle. It's like, buddy, what are you doing to the helicopter? Maybe like >> show some healing. Show >> you I don't want to do it. >> And it's all done. >> And I can guarantee you I'm just going to wait. I'm just going to wait. >> Dude, there's so much wrong with that. That that it's a regenerates. >> Yeah. And almost instantly all of it's back. Yeah. Instantly. >> Is this a Is this a Wolverine thing? Does he has Does he have a clothes being >> No, this is a game thing. This >> We've had games with persistent like clothing damage. >> Yeah. X-Men Origins Wolverine. If you lost the upper layer, you didn't get it back. >> Oh, sorry. That's what I meant. >> This game basically say they they made a deliberate choice because they didn't want you to be running around half naked for the entire game. >> That's what they actually said. Yeah. Yeah. >> Give the people what they want. a shame be [ __ ] cool. >> In fact, >> I was gonna say this upset Shad so much he has to go. >> No swords in this game. >> Has some. >> Yeah, it's getting late. Got work in the morning and everything. So, thanks Ess. Hey, EAP. Happy anniversary. You guys are awesome. >> Thank you. >> And uh we'll we'll catch you again. I'll see you around. >> See you. Hello. >> Also, first time you get to see a healing ability, does that mean you do have a fail state if these guys kill you before you get to this cut scene? >> I [clears throat] don't know, >> dude. >> Do you need bullet time in this game? >> This has been slowed down. >> It's not an ability. >> Um, I guess I can't be sure for sure for sure that this isn't in game, but I think it's not. Yeah. >> Well, he's got that ability on the bottom left. >> No, this is this is >> ultra slow motion for the last >> This is This is the uh the video. [laughter] >> Are these different? >> Must have been the wind. [laughter] >> That one was all right, I guess. >> Look at all the glowing stuff around to show you where everybody is. >> Yeah. You just don't have to pay attention. Pays attention to you. >> It's strange because the one trailer >> Oh no. >> The one trailer was going on about how like he's full of rage and like he's going to be this monster and then like he's a stealth guy. >> Yes. >> This cutscene this >> I mean it's crazy that there's there feels like there's more rage in um Hugh Jackman killing the first soldier in X-Men 2, >> right? >> Yeah. It's not even a >> I'm trying I'm trying not to come at this from a you know Wolverine and other things is a rage monster and that means that in this game he has to be too but like the trailer for this game advertised that he's supposed to be a rage monster >> as a rage meter as a mechanic. I think it's safe to assume he's a rage monster. >> That's the should be a rage foot. Doesn't this take place? And >> should I? >> So given up. >> He is about to very nearly let himself get a thing that put on him. That is clearly something that will like remove his powers. >> Yeah, I feel like that should already be shot by bullets considering the situation he's on. >> Oh, bullets are scary. He does. He knows. >> He knows the one in front of him is Mystique because he says, "Are you bothering >> you better hope not betraying you if you're about to get a power collar put on you?" >> Just action scene. >> Why would you mess around like this? And also, as you're going to see, he doesn't really help her, which is like, hm, I don't know why. Like, this seems perilous, but >> I know what he's scared of. He doesn't want his shirt to get damaged. >> The enemies help. They They don't shoot when they very well could. Why did she reveal herself and take the time to do that while the others should be ready? >> And that was insanely close to going on his neck, by the way. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yep. Very close. But I mean, it's for the reveal. Look, >> there's Mystique. Wow. Look at her go. >> Well, the reveal by her taking them out. But you'll see there's a third guy to the right that has a gun and just doesn't even try. >> Doesn't fire. Yeah, he's just been standing there the whole time >> and that guy. >> All right, let me run up. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. You want to do anything with the >> only about time you caught up? Where's Sabertooth? >> He's sleeping off his fight with a mega red. >> Y'all suck. >> Are you wearing armor? >> Oh, I've seen this. This is the funniest. [laughter] [ __ ] Hi-Fi Rush made fun of this [ __ ] >> And you have like these people online. They're like, "Oh, this is just normal for for video games. You've been doing this for ages. >> Stupid video game." >> That's the whole point is >> it's boring. And and and also a lot of games do this, but then the enemy gets like stuck because they punch too hard in the floor. They at least try to give a reason why the thing stays down there and not like I'm going to punch this down and I'm going to wait for 5 seconds while you wail in my face or my arm I should say. >> And I mean also how did no one at Sony say hey you know what's a game that we own? Shadow of the Colossus. Why don't we kind of approach a sentinel fight like that where Wolverine and >> No. Okay. That game's mechanics were like cutting edge back then and we've moved backwards. So like I don't know. >> Yep. How [ __ ] do the X-Men have to be to be wiped out by these things? >> They're so easy to both walk away. They can't reach you. Yeah, >> because Platoon, this universe hasn't yet had Peter Palanteer give the [ __ ] inhibitors [laughter] out. Once he gives the inhibitors out, it'll be much easier. >> Well, I mean, isn't that what those callers are? >> Yeah, but that's not as good. We got to weaponize it into like a rifle that shoots those little dots onto the next. >> So, like this is your Wolverine enemy. >> Run in a circle. Run in a circle. Okay. 10 plus is like one. >> I figure I didn't even need to translate that at the top, by the way. >> Yeah. No, >> the XD kind of summarizes it. >> Got to get the [ __ ] robot to stop us. >> Oh, all the lame dialogue, too. We got it all. Insomnia. >> Something I don't have in here, but I saw and I thought it was [ __ ] great. I think I sent it to you at some point, Frankie, but I lost it. Um, someone said, "Uh, this is no shade on Ben 10. In fact, it's like a really good game. What's funny is having sodoids have to deal with being compared to Ben Ted, which is like their worst nightmare. [laughter] >> What on like Nintendo Wii or something from like 20 years ago?" >> PS2. Um, our Wolverine is mature and made for adults as uh indicated by all of the blood. >> Literally doing the thing that Rush made fun of them for like a few years ago now at this point. >> I need to >> Well, it's an Xbox Chuds, I guess. Although it's not anymore, I suppose. >> Mark gifted that to me one time. I need really good. >> I got the chance to play Wolverine early and I wanted to walk you through all the cool stuff that you can do in this game. And don't worry, no major spoilers. So jumping into combat, you can leap towards enemies like that. You can also parry, of course, and then you have a ton of combos, special abilities. And then of course there's stealth attacks. You can eliminate enemies instantly from behind like this, which is really, really cool. And you can even hit that and you're still I can't stress enough just how brutal the combat is. There's various >> slowly turning into you should play a second game. >> No dismemberments though team up abilities like this where Sabertooth comes in. You'll see that the environment sounds like he's about to tell us about the battle. >> No, when you're battling inside a specific environment, things will kind of just fall apart and break apart in front of you. I think is a great touch. >> Is it like you can like use the envirant? >> Because it's like I guess it's I guess it's neat that it does that but Is it just aesthetic? >> Yes, probably. >> I mean, I hope it's not the [ __ ] first light [ __ ] where everything just explodes the second you go near it. You Everyone praised the [ __ ] out of that. It was insane. >> Does this game have vault tech combat? That's what I wanted. >> We need vault tech. >> Don't worry, Between Us. If it's there, we will find it. >> Oh, yeah. >> And then the theme of this game like is way darker than Spider-Man. Here we're seeing all of these mutants that were just disposed of in the sewer. Not exactly why these mutants are here, but it is very dark. Something I noticed. >> Got to see this cool cut scene with Wolverine being taken captive and then Mystique here, which is just awesome. I think this visuals with the character models in this game are nearly flawless. All I did was record the tweet. >> My god. >> Wow. >> Look at Troy Baker here. who is playing [music] Essex or Mr. Sinister. And it's the first time I think that I've seen Troy's actual face being used in the game. And then we had a boss battle here with this not is not the first time, but okay. >> Well, I he said the game. I heard it as a game and I'm like he's definitely had his face in other games like a lot of them actually. But no, he meant in this game. >> Awesome. Sentinels and uh definitely a new kind of spin on the Sentinel. Looks a lot different than what I'm used to at least. And I think this is really really cool. And then you have to be completely explored. >> I love >> I love how hollow all of this commentary is. I love that it's just it's lit. It's just what I'm doing. >> It's I I got to play early uh and I want to do this again. The future slop commentary. >> Yeah, it feels like an ad, doesn't it? like, "Oh, here's something that's in the game. That's pretty awesome. Here's another thing." >> Descriptive praise. Like two or three times he just said, "Here's a thing you can do. That's really, really cool. Here's a thing you can do. That's really, really cool. Why is it really really cool? Sentinel looks gay. It doesn't look cool." >> What do you mean by completely [laughter] explore? Can I play pool? Can I jump on that pool table and play with those people? Can I order any drink from the bar? As Rags was saying before, can I go into the kitchen completely? actually if if this is our hub or whatever, can you do things that are just fun and immersive? Can I like Yeah, in Cyberpunk, if I go to a bar and I order a drink, it doesn't like do anything. And the fact it takes a couple credits out of my wallet is is is poultry. If anything, it's symbolic, but like I can immerse myself in the world by being able to do that if I want to and just look around at other patrons, have a drink. >> I could picture there's a there's a point to that. >> The devs, if you said like, "Can I go into the kitchen?" They'd be like, "Why would why would you go why would you go into the kitchen?" You're like, "Well, I just want to see what's in the kitchen." It's like, "No, Wolverine doesn't want to know that." >> I mean, [clears throat] >> what if I want to use my claws to help them with prep? You know, chop up some vegetables. Why not? >> No. Wolverine wouldn't do that. So, no. >> No. There's There's a It's heavily unionized in the kitchen. They They wouldn't that I don't think that I think Wolverine would respect that. Even this even if this game had like the best story in the world, like I think they needed to find a compelling gameplay loop for this and I don't think they found it. Like like if you look at like like this reminds me a lot of in some ways sometimes Devil May Cry or like God of War like in regard to like the giant boss battles like like God I remember God of War II had that basically at the beginning where you fight the giant statue but even God of War had like >> different melee weapons that you could switch between >> and like fry you had like you had different projectile gun like weapons you could switch between different melee weapons, different swords, um whether whether whether whether it was the sword or like se Cberus where you could like fight with the fists, like different different melee weapons, different different projectile weapons and and this just feels like it's just the claws that you have and that and that's it. Like it doesn't show off any kind of other weapons that you can utilize. Ghost of Sushima had stances despite having one weapon. But I don't know. I I feel like this guy would be praising how deep the combat is because of all the different stances you can take as Wolverine if it did exist. >> It probably doesn't have stances, right? Like >> even if they were there, they would be a rock paper scissors thing. >> Mhm. >> Well, they kind of >> Exactly. It would it would be that you need to use this for this specific enemy and that's it. The word um ton does so much [ __ ] work in these sorts of statements. There's a ton of Easter eggs. That could be three. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> I just care about Easter eggs. I'm sorry. Like I want to interact in my video game and do things that are cool. >> I I think Easter eggs shouldn't be a selling point of your game cuz they're Easter eggs. It's like it's nice if you find them. Like, oh, I found this secret little room that has a thing. That's fun. And not like we have this game. I watched I played it and there's tons of Easter eggs like Okay, I don't care. What about the gameplay? What about a story Easter eggs to this level? >> Let me ask this. Do you think that in this bar there is an arcade machine that has a mini game you can play? >> Like the Lost Viking from Starcraft 2. >> Out did it. If outlaw Donkey Kong 64 had that where you could play a [ __ ] arcade machine, a mini game. >> I put a hard baby on that. I'm not sure. That's an interesting question. >> I'm gonna I'm Wolverine play an arcade game. >> I'm a mild no. I don't think that there will be. I won't be shocked if there is, but I don't think there's going to be. >> I think the game takes itself too seriously, but something >> That's actually a fair point. Yeah, >> exactly. Yeah, those are the old >> arcade games are for kids. Wolverine games on PlayStation 5 are really cool and those are for adults. >> Animal experiences have come so far. >> On the on the note of Easter eggs, by the way, that used to be something that the devs kept secret and fans found and shared online. Now it's marketing. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> So lame. >> Now it's corporate mandated. >> You can find things. >> Look at Look at this. What you can find. Look at this secret. And you're like, wait, it doesn't Okay. Yeah. Thanks. >> I like how even the I like how even the stairs has a glowing arrow that points up. [laughter] That is funny. >> Thanks game. I know painted arrow. >> You know how that'd be a little too on the nose. >> Instantly recognized. Like I could literally go up and just arm wrestle Sabertooth here. >> That is a cut scene. [ __ ] off. >> Well, that is obviously the story. It's not some random thing. >> That is your story objective for >> I can save the day. >> No, he was hanging out and it was like a fun thing that he could do. Definitely. >> Yeah. >> If you asked to press that guy to say, "What are the Easter eggs?" He might say, "Well, there's a woman at the pool table wearing a smiley face t-shirt, which is clearly a reference to the film Forest Gump." >> Well, wait a second. He This tweet says, "I played several hours of Wolverine." So, I assume we are being led to believe that this is his gameplay. He makes no attempt whatsoever to explore the fully explorable bar. >> Oh, this game. >> He goes he goes straight to >> I've seen this before from his other tweet. That's just from the visuals. Yeah, it's probably B-roll, >> but like give us an example. >> No, I'm pretty sure those clips were from his account. Most of them anyway, but you might be right that they're generic ones [ __ ] around. I don't know for sure, but they were from his account, the ones I showed before. >> I also don't really I don't really care for this framing cuz he says, you know, just hanging out. I went upstairs and arm wrestled this guy and then the hand ambushed the bar blah blah blah. like as if this was all something that happened sort of like emergently rather than being the scripted video game sending you to the place to go and do a thing to then have the next event of the story happen. >> I want to just press the guy yes or no. If I choose to not arm wrestle Saber-tooth, does the game continue? >> Oh, in the middle of my mission in Bond because I happened to chat up a girl earlier, she actually came in and changed the outcome of the of the mission. It's like, "Yeah, that's scripted." >> You made it sound like it wasn't. >> She comes there every time. I Yeah. >> Instantly recognized. Really cool touch. Like I could literally go up and just arm wrestle Saber-tooth here. Then the hand actually chase them out of here. >> No chance. >> There's no chance that's optional. >> Also change the script, too. I can literally walk up to a place, press one button, and then tap the button. >> Like, wow. >> Incredible. You're going to have to like when you play the section, you're going to have to just test if you stand still if it allows you to even fail this. >> I can literally just stand still an extremely tacked on like game over and it's like, okay, just just do it again and like don't [ __ ] up this. >> I think that I think the ninja's just going to wait for you. >> Look at traversal. I think that that >> like in first light the you need to complete this in 30 seconds and like you could you could spend four hours in that test. >> Why does he jump like this by the way? >> And [laughter] then once we meet up with the hand we get to activate rage level three is absolutely insane. >> Finishing moves. >> Like literally have you ever seen this before? Or rather should I ask have you ever not seen this before? >> Which is L2. >> Can you go back? I guess I can >> level three. >> So pay attention. Maybe this is just me. So he kills these three guys effortlessly by mashing some buttons. Then he goes to kill he one of the one of the he's going to go and kill another one behind him. One of them is going to dodge like to the right. It looks like Wolverine like instantly tracks the person like automatically. The car that like the player is not even moving Wolverine. He just automatically tracks an enemy that dodged him. >> Magnetizes. Yeah. It was. >> And now rage level three. Oh my god, he's absolutely insane. You get special rage finishing moves, which is just instantly tracks the guy who dodged him. Awesome. >> It's the thing that's in First Light as well. There snapping. It's in a lot of modern games. It's to prevent the the times where you throw a punch and it doesn't go anywhere. You wouldn't want that. >> Mhm. >> No, no need to help you like learn range, you know, those sorts of things. And it's not like those sorts of positional considerations are relevant for certain kinds of move. I don't know. might be a situation where we have to blame the Arkham games, but obviously they're good. Um, so one of those situations, you know, >> the same time. And it's just super brutal like that. And yeah, just a a really cool touch to make you kind of feel like a powerful, brutal Wolverine. Yeah, man. I had an absolute blast playing the game. I can't wait to play more. Let me know what you guys are thinking about Wolverine in the comments. >> It looks [ __ ] [laughter] Yeah, >> it it makes you think what could this game have been that he would not have liked it. >> Like what are the things that they had be like this is kind of dull >> if they had if the check bounced maybe? >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] you expect 18 buttons to take a step. Yes, that's totally the reasonable response argument being made. It's like you don't have to design your game such that this is the play experience. You don't you don't even have to like make a sequence like this if that's going to result in just the player holding. >> Oh, that looks so awful. >> Oh dear. >> I think they've said that that you only play as Wolverine in this game. So, this might be cut. >> This is this is the lake stuff. This is um from League. >> Yeah, probably a good idea. This game arena is not built to support enemies coming to get you. >> Well, also like why is Jean doing punches? She's telekinetic. >> Well, I mean, this almost feels like again like I mean, you know, I guess it will remain to be seen whether or not there will actually be like Gan levels, but the idea of like Jean Grey levels in a Wolverine game like on its face is just laughable to me. How are you not playing as like Sabertooth or something if you're gonna have somebody other than Wolverine? >> I want to play as Professor X. >> It's a hot new thing. I want to run over people. >> It would be really fun to play as a character who's all their attacks are telekinesis cuz there are games like you know Dead Space and others where you can use telekinesis a lot and it's fun to just pick up random [ __ ] and throw it at people and that should be like the basis of what a lot of Jean Greg does. Not I'm going to go punch them like no you [ __ ] >> What are you doing? I did love close to them to punch them. It's just obviously a reskin of the Wolverine gameplay. >> Yeah, I'm ready for this. >> It's weird to draw parallel between Wolverine and Gray in terms of like how they fight. >> Well, think of like Dishonored 2. You could play as Corvo or >> oh [ __ ] what's her name? Emily. and they have completely different move sets, but the AI and the way that they move and look for you and attack works for both of the completely different characters that you can essentially play as and their powers. So like, oh, the game design, what is that? Regardless of who I play, the enemies can actually deal with me in their own ways. H, this just doesn't look like the game like a game where AI can just handle the player like ever. Even though I mean Oh, wasn't that long ago and that's a telekinetic redhead. Like it's >> she's Gan Gray with a gun. >> I think we saw one button that wasn't light attack there. >> Oh, she has a throw. See, that was rough, man. >> Oh, wait. Hold on. The barrel highlighted. Maybe she can pick up the barrel and the player pick up things. You can Oh, why would it pick up the object way up there? Okay. >> If I had to imagine why they cut it. >> Oh, he just stands there. >> I like how he just go get her. Oh, he's just been waiting up here too for his time to die. >> So, if AI doesn't come and get you. That sucks. >> I can see why they cut this. >> Yeah. I mean, this is obviously not finished. >> Very dumb. >> I feel like the AI is just going to be like this in the final. >> Oh, you got this far, though. >> No, we got like >> It didn't look like Wolverine had this kind of mobility. Get attacks go straight through that guy without him. >> SL ground pound to the ground pound. >> Got to find a way out. >> Did any of the Wolverine sections have levels? >> Insomniac communications director James Stevenson has spoken about the huge amount of negative negativity surrounding Marvel's Wolverine on X. That includes us now, by the way. He says the constant criticism and attacks have become an onslaught on developers mental health. Stevenson is uh considering telling Insomniac employees to stay away from X because of it. Fans are comparing it to the PS2 games and calling it a movie game designed for journalists. [laughter] >> Well, [ __ ] grown up. >> Jesus. >> No, >> I I can't take story side seriously. We might recommend people stay off X. If it's harming their own mental health because they can't take people being mean to them, then they should just make that decision themselves. >> Like being being on social media is a valitional thing. It is not a right. It is not a default position. If you don't like it, don't use it. Stop. >> It's also a volatile thing. >> Very clear why you were telling us all of this because to like curry some amount of sympathy or to try and mitigate like >> which would not be necessary if they were really confident that this game was great. Like your statement would just be like, "Yeah, we've seen some videos that people are comparing it to. I think they're out of context and they don't really show everything the game has to offer. We we did a good job on it. We're really proud of it and we think you guys are going to like it too. I hope you give it a shot. That's all you have to say. You You don't have to say >> that sounds like a good communication manager would do that, but uh I don't think this guy is very good at being a communication manager because he goes like everyone is mean to us. Stop it. >> We need to not even you would be on my payroll fire. It's like what the [ __ ] are you doing? >> We need to [ __ ] form a shield out of like the potential sadness of our [ __ ] developers. Like >> I don't know that they deserve any of this even. Like maybe they do feel bad having their game raked over the coals. I don't know. That's like probably their prerogative even if like the game is obviously pretty [ __ ] looking. Like I don't think they deserve to be like dangled in front of the public. Like look at the poor developer that you're hurting. Not don't look at me the lizard. >> Look at this tweet and said I remember games in like 2003 to 2005. They were developing so quickly from the '9s. We just assumed they would keep getting better, more immersive, more interesting. And then somewhere along the line it all stopped. They all just stopped developing. And this is what you get now forever. Video games never really ascended as an art, but long ago we thought they could. >> So unfortunately, I'd say that you can really apply this kind of thinking beyond video games. It feels like sometime in the last 10 or 15 years, there was this attitude of, well, we've tried all the crazy stuff. We've tried the wacky ideas and sort of experimental concepts. Um, and we figured out what does and doesn't work. And so everything is just sort of coalescing around this like mean of things that are generally uh accepted and generally seen as like the right way of doing it and you never end up with anything that's too like you know out of left field on that front. >> Like it's beyond games. >> It's a lot of things. It's the fact that like all phones basically look the same. It's that like a lot of movies look very similar. A lot of games >> Yeah, they figured it out. And so you've got everything that's just generally, I guess, possible, generally functional, but nothing very exciting or unique. I mean, you know, you can even look at like the nature of the video game consoles themselves. It's like they've all kind of been stripped of their personality. Whereas like the Gamecube, that's wacky. The Xbox, that's kind of wacky. The PlayStation 2, that's like carving out its own niche. The Dreamcast, like none of these things look even remotely the same. They kind of look a bit a bit silly, but that's like almost, you know, that's like the fun of it compared to now where everything is just like it's the same gray box, you know, everything. >> The PS5 looks like at least five different buildings in London. It's like it's it's a big tall thing with a bizarre top and it makes no aesthetic sense whatsoever. And it's >> vampire collar. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Routers. >> Routers was the big one. I think though that a lot of that in both movies and video games at the very least can be traced to just budgets like thinking we need to make money therefore we need to spend more money in order to make more money and when you give that kind of financial backing to projects >> you're just very incentivized to make the safest possible choices like well we need to we spent $35 million on this game and that's 10 million less than our last one but we still need to make probably 600 million in order to even break even on this. >> So, let's make sure that everyone is just able to play this game all the way through and says good things about it and then their friends buy it. >> And I don't think they realize that a smaller budget with a tighter vision and like better ideas with maybe less production value but a better game would probably do better. >> Don't lock themselves into like we have to have the biggest best graphics ever. That's where the real competition lies, which is also where a lot of the budget lies, too. It's really expensive to do. Um, budgets balloon like you say that that makes them very very riskaverse because you don't want to be spending $300 million on something that will fail. So, you look to the last best successful thing and the safest thing to do is to copy it. Um, but you know, you get that growing sentiment that double A is kind of where most of the innovation happens now. And it's not unrelated that cheaper, more risk is allowed, more of them will fail, but you can make more of them, so you'll get more that succeed as well. >> Well, yeah. I mean, like, Expedition 33 did really well, and they're like, "We're a small team with a modest budget. We got a writer from Reddit and a composer from Soundcloud and we basically made Final Fantasy 10 but with a different story and turns out people like it a lot but it's cheaper to buy than most of the other games out there and it's on Game Pass and that game did well. So I I really don't know why more studios don't start trying to make 10 of 10 30 million games instead of one $300 million game. >> And that's why Springy City goes beyond games because movies have the same problem. The default budget for a movie is 250. Well, the default reported budget for a movie is 250 million. Um, and they're almost invariably way higher than that. The budgets are so large for similarish reasons. And so the same risk aversion plays in. You go for the last best successful thing. That's the reason Deadpool and Wolverine are now appearing in Doomsday. It's not because their movie was good. It's just that it made loads of cash. So have the same characters do the same thing. Cameos. Cameos. >> Yeah. So, um, you got assault rifle before and after today's update on Xbox Series X for Campaign Evolved. And the point of this little clip is going to show that the shots are more scattered now in the AR. Kind of nerfing it a little bit. >> And of course, the quote tweet says, "Why is a campaignon remake of a game from 2001 getting postlaunch balance updates?" >> Oh, like engage with your brain a little bit. >> Oh my god, look at the difference. It's no wonder that gun was so insanely good. >> Yep. Wait, it was just a [ __ ] laser. Y >> that was the >> Oh, you don't know, Theo? Yes. Basically, they changed the assault rifle from kind of being functionally an SMG in Halo 1. >> Uh huge magazine, uh widespread, low damage, you know, sort of crowd control weapon. And they turned it basically into a precision mid-range like weapon. Um, and so now they've clearly changed their mind on that because Halo 1 is not designed with the assault rifle filling that function. I mean, really none of the Bungie games have the assault rifle filling the function that it has in this. Even like three in reach in campaign in in the OG, I kind of switch that out as soon as possible with anything else because it's not that useful most of the time unless you >> get rid of all the little flood flood things. And then I go into campaign evolve and I was like, "Oh my god, this game this this weapon is actually amazing now." >> Just going to hold on to you. It doesn't too versatile. It's too good. It is more useful than like sniper rifle. >> It's insane. >> Yeah. This is wild how big the difference by the way >> cuz this this wildly changes like the just what you would pick up. Would you have the assault rifle? Yeah, you'd have it. Would you have it like all the time? Nah. >> This is a huge change. >> What did you What did you mean about engage your brain a bit? I was confused by that statement. >> I mean, like I I I think it's pretty clear that especially with a quote here is like there's obviously huge intentional changes that are being made by balancing a post-launch a single player game like >> so the point that this guy's probably making is you're doing patches for a game that was like solved basically. >> Yeah. The point the point the why is that the answer is they have failed miserably. Their only job was to copy a well balanced game. They've updated it so horribly they now have to do post-launch updates to fix it and it's only campaign. >> I don't think that's what we mean. I think it's just the [ __ ] or take of you why do you need to balance a single? >> I took it as they were making fun of the fact that this is >> definitely that it's like you're having to do patches game that came out like 25 years ago. I the reason my mind goes to that, you know, the interpretation I did is because we have games like Hell Divers, which is a co-op game. >> That makes sense though, right? >> It's AI. >> Yeah. So, a lot of people, but that has kind of gotten into the game sphere in a lot of places. The idea of like single player games and co-op games that are not PVP. Why are you like balancing them so much? let the players be overpowered and use broken stuff if it is broken. >> No, the magic. >> But of course, this this this is specifically contextualized as they took the standard weapon for the whole campaign. They boosted it beyond [ __ ] belief when the blueprint was already available and now they're having to scramble or fix because it's too OP. It's like, how did you get to this point? >> This is their version of scramble this amount of time to >> get Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, remember they had to fix the [ __ ] insta killills from the uh Jackals, which they didn't even fix >> day two when I when I played it my first playthrough of this game. On day two of it being out, that assault rifle, I picked it up and used it and I'm like, "Holy [ __ ] we are going to be we're going to be very good friends. You are insane." >> I don't think I ever dropped it unless like I was totally out of ammo with no chance of picking any more up. Didn't they add the SMG in though? Cuz the SMG wasn't in original Halo, but they added it to this. It it's identical or basically identical to what are the >> it was definitely deliberate. They they made a conscious decision to say we're going to throw the SMG in as the standard like the equivalent of that means we can make balance changes to the main battle rifle but now it's sucked >> and it's where the SMG shows up is not equivalent to the original AR. That's a big difference. And so the SMG is just kind of I find it less useful than the AR because it shows up without really consideration. >> It's way less versatile. It doesn't kill it does it doesn't out DPS the assault rifle up close to justify it existing. >> And you can't dual wield it. >> I I'm a I'm an original AR uh purist or truthist. It's more useful than people say, but um I found that the SMG didn't really fill that role. And again, it's because you can't predict where it's going to show up >> compared to assault rifle. >> It seemed we all quickly realized like, holy [ __ ] the AR has been buffed. And it's like, how did they not anticipate considering everybody's like first playthrough? That was the experience. >> When they played it, surely there was like they had to make a conscious threshold of I should swap out from this. It just does enough things too well. I'll just hold on to it. There's no real point me doing the work of swapping it out with something else. I'll just keep it. >> Like been said, it's just like we bought it on a [ __ ] sniper. What's going on there with like the accuracy? How do they not know this? It's like they designed it this way. They must have known this. >> If they're nerfing the AR, are they going to speed up the swap to the human pistol? Cuz it's painfully slow. >> You say that as though you'll ever play it again. And Mark, you better not ever play it again. [laughter] >> That's an insane difference. >> It's crazy. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Jeez. >> You say that makes a difference. Yeah. >> Why are they timed as well? >> The thing is what's what's crazy is that that's that's dumping down the range from like 100 m to like 50, which is still really useful. You're still going to get like really good performance out of the bad even if you burst fire it. Yeah. Well, that about wraps us uh looking at looking at old Wolverine there, you know, seeing what's going on. But for me to watch that, >> I cannot I cannot wait to play Wolverine. Oh, yeah. I have I now have confirmation from all of you chuds, all of you outrage merchants, >> that you're just like all the people that get addressed in this very video. >> So, it's time for you to experience a little bit of uh I don't know, a little bit of a check. >> Check yourself. Okay, buddy. I will say what was funny is I was looking at the Wolverine stuff and then this just turned up in my recommended. I'm pretty sure this video is like I don't know 15 hours old or something. It's it's pretty young. Um so I >> was going to ask when did this very recently within the day. Um >> yesterday >> and so it's going to learn you some some online etiquette. >> This is cool. >> This is the thing is this is a lesson that I actually have to learn. I've been told by uh people online that I'm quite rude to game developers. So, >> why is it then? >> Why is is capitalized? >> And an as but not an. Yeah, >> it's >> fine. Whatever. >> Maybe it's an L. >> Slow death of civilization. Whatever. >> Oh, yeah. >> That's some funky music. >> Why the Why the P? >> It really is everyone, isn't it? >> Oh, boy. Nick. Here we go. Nick >> every week. >> Oh, he has a blue sky hand. >> Was he there when when uh when Jim Sterling said he was boy pregnant or whatever? >> I don't know cuz I don't know who Nick Calendra is, but I know he's on Blue Sky. So, that's a big old green flag. >> Yeah, that's a flag. >> It's become a business model of desperation. >> Toxic. >> Everybody's mean and it's a business model. >> Just so we're clear, right? All the opinions you just expressed on Wolverine. All of you. That was to get money. >> Where the [ __ ] is it? >> Where's my [laughter] money? I'm gonna give my money. Where's my money? >> Where's my money? >> You guys get paid sort of. [laughter] >> Big new game on the horizon. >> Better find a reason to be mad about it. You've noticed it. I've noticed it. Everyone has noticed it. >> Weird when your hand changes. >> Every game with a big enough footprint has some madeup controversy surrounding it. >> Made up the real ones. Has there ever been one where it's a real one? Has there ever been a real one? >> I'd like some examples, please. >> Except maybe he thought about stuff. >> So, does this cut both ways when uh Blizzard gets accused of like sexual harassment of their female employees? Is that a madeup controversy or is that one real? >> Even like I mean is some people being really excited about Wolverine and thinking it looks amazing a controversy when there's people that are like, "Nah, actually it looks kind of shit." >> Remember, this does not go the other way. There is no such thing as like overwhelming praise. >> What about like the negativity surrounding Sony getting rid of discs and that like extending to >> that's made up case when it comes to like Rockstar for Grand Theft Auto 6. Would that be the opinion he holds? >> I just don't get why we do this, man. Like >> have to frontload the perspective that everything ever is insincere and manufactured. You could just start from a position sincere and overblown if you want. >> The outrage culture machine is fighting for relevancy at this point. >> Relevance. >> Wolverine is the first thing he shows like uh you find it very relevant. The outrage machine is just people saying they don't like the look of the new Wolverine. Like >> I'm going to go a step further. >> Let's let's say he's right that it's fighting for relevance. I don't think that's true. True. I think a lot of people's view counts are doing quite well actually. Probably significantly better than this video. So, I don't think there's a fight for relevance here. >> Should we chat? Are you entertained right now? Do you want us to move back to Mark Brown or stay here? [laughter] >> Dude, Mark Brown was so boring. I had random begging for Sterling. [laughter] >> Please stay here. It's the only way these channels, social media accounts, and drama merchants stay in business. >> Drama merchants. >> He's a journalist. >> He's authentic. >> If you don't want to be [ __ ] toothless about this, name names right now. >> Name this video. >> That he he will absolutely not do that. >> Integrity is like a video essay, >> you know. Whatever you do, never drama. I'm trying to understand the mechanics here. So, the video essays people don't want him to name names, but what if he named like Grums or you know some of these? >> It's funny you say people. >> Is that still not acceptable? >> There's only one name that pops up I think in this video and it is Grubs. >> Oh, there is a [laughter] very acceptable. >> He named the names. >> Yeah, >> he's retarget. find whatever buzzword ruffles the feathers of their audiences and milk it until it's puttering out dust. They'll repeat it. >> For example, buzzwords here, we use tipples to set chat off. That's like a big signal right in your massive >> dog whistle. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Lots of them >> verbatim across a multitude of channels to convince the unaware that it's a real issue that needs to be addressed. >> Like what? Like what? What's what what are the points? You know what I'm talking about. Who know >> that target right now is Insomniac's upcoming Wolverine game because I guess they're not happy. They actually are convinced sometimes there's like a meeting between the elders and they say like the next target has been defined and like a bloody block starts to drain and it just figures the face of Wolverine and it's like [laughter] >> I guess I guess what I guess they're not oh is >> hatred >> a lot of talk about [laughter] Grand Theft Auto 6 and Sony not having discs past 2028. Like I mean >> all of those are fake. He's talking about the real fake ones as well. His his algorithm is serving Wolverine discourse. That's what's going on for this account of what people have an issue with in Wolverine, by the way. >> Gotta talk about Wolverine now cuz people won't be in a month. >> Any sentence that starts with I guess they're not happy that >> is like it's it's going nowhere good though. >> Wait, hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So So number one, is this actually a tutorial mission? question >> cuz I thought the tutorial was that stuff that we saw where he was in the armor like >> this doesn't look like a tutorial level. This >> we've been we've been trained for this. We've been trained for this. We were put through boot camp for this. Tutorials never [ __ ] end. >> I think the tutorial is going to be excuse me but there is a not the idea that this is the only way that you could achieve this. This is the only way that you could teach the player to understand the task before them. It's just silly. >> I I think it's just bad editing. I think he's supposed to be showing the tutorial footage, but he's like gone outrageous. What I think people do with like films and games like a lot is like when they're presented with something, they treat it as if like that was the only way it could ever have been. Like there is no way for circumstances to have ever been different. Well, as we've seen when we cover video essaists on YouTube, they very regularly display extremely low imagination. It's either this or something completely different. Those are the only two things something could possibly be. There's no other options. When really, it's essentially an infinite amount of options. We see this all the time. This obtuse level of, well, what else did you want them to do? Discounting the nearly infinite ways they could have done it. I think too like we should all everyone who's like planning to play this to stream it or like criticize it whatever put a pin in this and think about whether or not the actual rest of the game is substantially different than the trailers we've seen. >> Yeah. >> Just to be clear though, right? So with First Light you get the prologue which is heavily reduced mechanics and that's just categorically for everyone's like fine tutorial. Yes. There's like a bunch of cut scenes and then you go to the like boot camp in the actual game that lasts [ __ ] another 40 minutes like so that was also tutorial right we all we all agree it's like yep that was tutorial too fine then you go to your first main mission after a bunch more cutcenes where it's your first like walking around understanding [ __ ] it's like that's that's still a tutorial everybody cuz you still you never done this before it's still a tutori you can't criticize it for not being complicated and for not giving you freedom when it's a tutorial like okay you get into the car it's like that's a tutorial you haven't done the car yet okay that's still a tutorial and you like the extension of what is a tutorial kept going until and Metal was the one that sent me the tweet in the first place. It was a guy who just said really the campaign is more so a tutorial for the modes you unlock after you've beaten it. >> Oh my god, that was cool. >> The real meat of the game is in the Q simulation. >> This is where I mean like I'm already [ __ ] exhausted of tell when you criticize how they do something. It's like this is a tutorial. You're just nitpicking. What the [ __ ] And then you just remember it's like dude, >> bomb battlefield is the tutorial level, but it's like a level. >> Level level. >> There's only one genre where I will accept the single player mode being the tutorial, and that's fighting games. Like, if you play through the arcade mode in the fighting game, you could look at that as a tutorial to get good enough with a character to fight online and not be terrible. >> You know, there's something to be said for the honesty of like the, you know, FNG in Call of Duty 4. There's something to be said for that. >> I love FNG. This is the tutorial. We're just going to introduce you to guns, aiming guns, firing guns, using your knife, switching to pistol, and then we'll give you a little challenge to test your skill and then you're in the game. >> Gives you a recommended difficulty and then if you want to get recommended for veteran, you're encouraged to keep going through that until you're good enough with the mechanics that it says, "Yeah, it looks like you're good for recommen veteran mode." So, >> here are your moves. Here are the mechanics. You know what the buttons do. Okay, off you go. And it's still like three minutes. [laughter] >> Players will learn quite short. >> Like players will learn and understand and internalize information at different rates as well. Like I'm sure we've all had an experience in some game or another where you've figured out a mechanic before it was tutorialized to you. And so by the time the tutorial comes up, you're just like, "Oh yeah, I already know this one." This sort of setup makes that impossible. It forces every player to commit to the exact same sequential learning curve that takes the same amount of time, which is obviously perfect for the [ __ ] lizards, but it's not very good for really anyone because people who learn quicker or who want to access more faster get [ __ ] annoyed with having to spend two or more hours like piddling around doing essentially nothing. And the those who like maybe fall behind somehow or another, they they're still not being really catered to cuz they don't have the time to continue to learn familiarity with what they've already picked up cuz we're on to the next thing to tutorialized now. >> Yeah, >> it really stood out at first light because I started and I got to the openish area where you can where you're supposed to sneak through and I just started beating everybody up. I was like, do I not have like a block button or a parry button? I was like, oh, let me check the controls. like, "Oh, yeah, there it is." Oh, they just they I'm just not allowed to press the button where I block a punch >> while I'm from the army. I was like, "Okay, cool. Thank you." >> Yeah, you can't parry it. I I started playing the PC port of Gears of War 2. It's an unofficial one, but it actually functions quite well. Uh, but one thing that struck me was right at the beginning of the game, it gives me the option to do the tutorial or not. And it's diagetic, too. It's like, "Hey, Marcus, you want to do a little bit of a refresher here before we go into this building for this mission?" You can be like, "Yes, no." >> One, no, we're good. >> We have the tech to solve this whole I blame Rockstar for the [ __ ] 25 hour tutorial intro that they do, but we have the tech. It's the skip tutorial button. >> Yeah, >> the average gamer doesn't need this [ __ ] events >> or a red trail following a boss in a chase sequence boss. >> Is that >> it's just some guy that disappears into a roof. >> Yeah, we don't know if he's a boss or whatever. >> Mer and uh Theo love boss enemies that run away from you. >> Yeah, I've heard really talk about this. >> Hey man, [laughter] listen. To be fair, the person who got the most Do you remember Mel who was like Fier had an actual near mental break cuz he had a really bad time with Malash? I don't know if you can get those clips anymore, but they were [ __ ] hilarious. He wanted to kill somebody. >> Uh, you know, maybe as Wolverine would be more chill because your enemy doesn't have an instant kill move or an instant stun and then kill thing. Micholash can go kill himself. >> I want to see Wolverine chase Mash. Yeah, [laughter] >> IGN did a comically long article explaining the in universe reason for that because of how much anger there was over it. >> Why? >> It's one of the YouTube thumbnails to show what all the hate really is about though. >> What [laughter] it's always about these days or every major release. >> It's a repeatable predictable pattern to the point >> of him showing examples of what he's talking about. I mean, he's not really going in depth on it, but this is >> No, he's just doing that thing these these people always do, which is they will scroll down through thumbnails and then pretend that they know the content of the video. It's like it could be that all of these people have lots of varied and different criticisms of the game, many of which could well be valid. He wouldn't know because he doesn't watch them. He just looks at thumbnails. >> I don't know. I think if you package your video as Wolverine is for the Goyam, as that one guy did earlier [laughter] at the top, I'm not sure. I'm not sure I really need to like dig in on that one. >> There might not be much nuance based >> to be fair. You never know. They can these people can surprise. It could just be the trendy word for like you're a cattle if you buy it. >> It's just slop that you're buying and you need to have higher standards. Could be. Who knows? >> Oh no, Alex is the one at the top. I like his videos. >> Wrong to release. >> I think it was number two. a repeatable >> the funny one >> predictable pattern to the point that when any game is about to be released, you can pinpoint the things they'll focus on before they even start making post about it. >> Oh, then do it. Make a [ __ ] killing on doing predictions that are super accurate about every game that's going to >> the prediction market. >> You don't even know which like first like got [ __ ] throatated hard and it was terrible. >> I'm sorry for anybody who likes that game. >> It's still on Twitter all the time when people are like what are your current game of the years? and First Light is on every single [ __ ] one I see. And I'm just ow. >> Where I'm where I'm going with this, if you trade the release of Wolverine and First Light, we may have seen just everyone throwed Wolverine and then shat over First Light. Like, it's so easy to have flipped them. >> Mhm. >> To be nominated at the Game Awards. >> It's very AAA brained like the Wolverine's the only thing that's going on. You can check the popular upcoming games list on Steam and it's like none of those games are getting this treatment. So, I don't know what the [ __ ] he's talking about. James Stevenson, the director of community and marketing at Insomniac Games, took to Twitter to address all the complaints, saying, "I think the wild way this algorithm amplifies and forces negativity upon you has me reconsidering my philosophy on telling devs to look or post here. It's a relentless onslaught that I cannot believe is good for anyone's mental health nor representative." >> My philosophy, my philosophy on telling people to use is not a [ __ ] philosophy. You just don't want to get you just don't want to get criticized publicly. You don't want to get criticized on social media when you post products that have to be exchanged for money. We're not your friends. We're not your buddies. We're not your pals. You're not giving us gifts. This isn't charity. You are trying to sell me something. I can criticize it. You're trying to charge me money for your [ __ ] and you're like making fun of our their product. >> A lot of money. >> Was he going around the office like telling people to like read Twitter? I I don't believe that that was like an actually something that he got up to. was like, "You need to be reading the the quote tweets on our latest trailer." >> How else would they own the >> I wouldn't tell anyone that [ __ ] dude. [laughter] >> I flat out say, "Hey, we're trying to sell a game. All of you, social media blackout for the next month." Like, if you want to post on anything, you do a alt account and you don't mention anything about working here. >> Okay. This statement was covered by a lot of different outlets to say Stevenson was addressing the controversy, but in reality, it's just a feeling most devs and studios are contending with because of how bad things have gotten. >> Wait a second. Come on. Timing really? >> He just so happened decided to declare to the world that he was changing his mind on October on or sorry, August 14th. >> And is it is it happening to every developer? Like did Team Cherry get a lot of hate when they released Silk Song? >> I don't think so. It was very much the opposite. Yeah, tons of game devs have positive relationships with uh with their customers. It's just these guys don't because they are releasing slop and pretending it's not. >> Yep. >> Social media platform. It's a real shame because I used to see dev insights all the time on social media and over the years the bullies of these platforms of every political taste mind you have killed the vast majority of that engagement fans used to have and it makes the industry a more boring place to be in because of it. I still see that. >> Well, actually, are companies encouraging their employees to talk about like the the creative thought processes behind games or anything like that or why design things to be because a lot I just don't think that I just think they're flat out told not to do that stuff anymore because when the Halo stuff was kind of in the news a bit more and and relatively recently, I've seen a decent amount of posts from like ex Bunggeie devs and stuff who made the good Halo games talk about, yeah, we did this and that and we did this and this and that and here are some things that we, you know, if here's some of our thought process and da da da they'll just talk about it and they'll say it and obviously it's quote unquote safer to do that after the you know the that there enough time and stuff has passed but like I don't know I think these companies are just flat out telling their devs don't [ __ ] talk about anything >> no >> you have like nothing to gain and a lot to lose >> I think it's the nature of social media has changed as well I mean who the [ __ ] on if you're like a career oriented person who the [ __ ] is like posting their actual name on Twitter So that you can have uh Aryan Connie girl for 1488 posted under your >> He's good. He's good. I follow him. [laughter] >> That's my old account. How did you find that? >> You kept calling the nword under my post. >> That well that's a different he's not about that one. Don't worry about it. Ironically, >> whether they're making whether they're making games or making videos discussing those games want people to engage with their work and they want to interact with the >> positively. They want people to engage with their work positively. They don't want people to engage with their work. They only want the good stuff. >> These [ __ ] will never >> take some grand effort into looking at fake positivity, will they? It's like, yeah, but that's going to help mental health. It's like, is it now? Is it? Is it? Is it really? Rockstar is going to tell all these all these these mega shill channels and tweet, you know, Twitter accounts to be like, "Guys, you're being a bit like you're being a bit kiss ass. All right, could you could you chill out?" No, [ __ ] not. They're going to take all the positives from that. >> People engage people engaging with their work. Otherwise, what are we doing here? >> Yeah, they engage with the work. It's a good question. >> That's what you want them doing. You don't care. You shouldn't care about the social media [ __ ] It actually doesn't matter. What matters is how many people buy it. >> Not just making things to be sent out to the void. People who make art make it for people. Can you >> Yeah, man. But like, doesn't the praise only mean anything if it's capable of being criticized? >> Also, >> it's a product, man. They sell Yeah, exactly. They sell it to the people. They expect your money for it. >> Like, yes, it's art. Sure. But it's also it is a product. You're a company trying to sell me something. There needs to be an understanding here that is not forgotten. Yeah, if you hating our art like something they've been sh [ __ ] [ __ ] out slop for years now. Everything is just getting worse while also getting more expensive. >> Like the games are getting more expensive. They got to take away my physical copies. So if they >> Yeah. And every day like, "Oh, you don't get to play this anymore. We just got to get rid of this." And apparently uh Sony has been sending out emails that basically just says like, "Yeah, you're not owning the game anymore now. It's you're just renting it." Like they're confirming it. I haven't gotten that email yet, but I think it's like a proper email. >> It is funny though because in this case, every game that's been shown so far, Wolverine, uh, La Marathon, these are all Sony games. It's like, dude, there's something going on with Sony right now. Like, is that do we want to talk about that? >> Yeah, made themselves a reasonably easy target for a long time. >> They they saw Microsoft embarrassing themselves and said, "Hold up, we can't let them get ahead of us. >> We can do better than that. >> Can't spill the spotlight. Imagine though right now too and they're not going to take it. >> You put something out to the whole world and you're like tell me what you think and you see like sevens out of tens, eights out of tens and nines out of tens. You're like oh man this you know this is doing great. And then you find out from your [ __ ] manager it's like by the way I blocked any below seven [laughter] >> and you're like uh wait what what was the result? He's like you don't need to see it. >> Yeah. Seven out of 10 and above. Those are the reviews. >> I don't know man. I think that makes it meaningless. some good reviews. >> Yeah. What was the ratio? He's like, "Stop meddling with negativity. [clears throat] You don't need to know that sort of stuff. It's bad. >> It's bad for your mental health." >> Yeah. >> Imagine being in an art gallery showing off the work you're proud of. And while you got some excited fans appreciating it, you also got a bunch of people just screaming slurs in. Oh, [laughter] >> slurs. Let's reduce it all the slurs. Reduce it all. Is that what happens in all? >> I I don't know why you you know, you just have this thing and you're like, is he going to represent the analogy fairly? Cuz the the fear version is you put your painting up and you say hello and then some guy goes like, oh my god, I love this. And then the next guy goes, oh, I think that looks like [ __ ] >> You're like, oh. And then there's the guy in the background looks at you and screams the nword in your face. [laughter] The only reality we're really managing to manifest here is that yeah, people feel more like emboldened to be more unkind or more kind for that matter online because of anonymity. It's like okay, I guess. >> But then that breaks the metaphor because if we're talking about a real life art gallery, there is no anonymity in that respect. >> Mhm. >> People wouldn't say that [ __ ] to you in real life. >> Mhm. insults and whatever mush that comes out of their brains at you. You tell me how you would just ignore that or if you'd want to bother dealing with it. >> What if they're just passing? >> I would just I would just ask the owner of the art gallery to kick them out. >> Sort them out. [laughter] >> The art gallery is not the public forum. >> Yeah, that's also it's private. They can kick people out if they want if they're causing a disturbance. Yeah, >> but even Twitter isn't shouting at you. This would be more akin to someone at the art gallery passing you a note that says, "Yeah, you're painting [ __ ] just like scrolling by. >> Not even that. If someone passes you a note and says, "There's people outside protesting saying that your painting is shit." >> No, no. Someone hands you a bucket with a bunch of comments in it and you randomly pick them up and maybe one of them has the nword on it and then you just of your own reached your hand into the bucket of comments to read what was being said. >> That's true. Purely voluntary. You just you can disable replies on all your stuff on all of your tweets if especially if they're business tweets or stuff about your thing. You can just disable replies if you want. That's just a thing. Or you don't have to engage with the replies. You don't even have to use Twitter >> to have near direct access to studios and the creatives making the games we're supposed to enjoy. And people who live off >> supposed to have a product. >> What if we don't like what they're doing? And they're a company like Bungie who used to make things that we did enjoy and we want to tell them, hey, stop making >> extraction. Like I'm sorry it's a little bit awkward when this is cuz this is on you know well now not zero punctuation but the the new thing it's like you know I I enjoy you know Yatsi and and and that format but like it's mostly negative like >> you know and and you were the beneficiary of that. It's kind of the thing that the whole platform is built on. Um, so like you kind of need to deal with that that like essentially even the fact that you're here able to make this unpacked video is based on a format of reviews for games that is largely negative. Um, and also not strictly purely focused on being analytical. There are plenty of times when it's just going to be something is at the expense of the game for the sake of a joke. Um, I just need you to account for that when you're more or less sort of suggesting that like any general negativity towards like any any game is like like a moral wrong or something like a moral wrong or um or like dishonest or just totally contrary to the whole point of uh of these games. So, you know, I need you to deal with that. Obviously, you were pre-recorded, so you can't. But still, >> you nearly made backseat's mistake there. >> Mhm. Come on. >> Yeah, he almost got caught eating out of the pot. True. >> Even Frangy Rage have >> unfortunately the rest of us also. >> God, this game looks ugly as [ __ ] by the way. Jeez. >> Out because no longer want to engage with people online. >> Major companies have failed over and over and stand up for their creatives when things go to. >> You got to stand up for the people who made first light. How about no going down? Creatives are a good shield if anything like why does >> it even make sense though to have this game up when I self published this right >> well and also was there a hate campaign on this game like come on >> yes >> well yeah this game it was very positive so >> but I'm almost like oh yeah the massive corporations and you're showing footage of a game that they publish themselves so like surely it would be up to them it's up to the developers to protect the developers in this case or to the visual rules just not matter. >> It does open with the Amazon game studios thing cuz I think they um eventually stepped in to because they bought the license to Bond Amazon, right? So with uh I think that this one was still mainly handled by by them. Not that it really matters because he's going for obviously this this other point that you know EA and and Activision and stuff need to stand up for for their team. Why not show campaign evolved at this point if we're going for like >> I think I need to know what standing up means though by the way and I I hope that that like what what would be what would be effective standing up on the part of uh like publishers for developers >> mental health counselors and studio >> like if we go to the if we go to the Twitters ourselves as like the publisher and say leave the developers alone now that's just like embarrassing. Yeah. >> Well, I mean, that's kind of what the Wolverine guy did, right? >> Well, invites more. It just invites more of the thing you say you don't like. It's like going to the school bully and saying, "I'll piss myself if you tickle me." You don't do that. That's bad. [laughter] >> Sure. Would be bad if someone tickled me and I pissed myself in front of all of these people embarrassing about. >> Please don't post this. I think IO like started developing this game and then Amazon purchased MGM and then that I think there was an agreement where it's just like they let IO like complete development on uh first light and and now I think Amazon doesn't want to let IO develop any further games but they let them finish this one and >> Sure. No, I I know about that. It's um it's almost besides the point in terms of the it was just a thought I had with uh >> the visual, but it's it's this point that the publishers need to be doing more. So, what what what should they do? That's what I want to know. >> Yeah. At least on Steam, I owned as the publisher. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] in the legal sense here, just a general moral sense of making developers feel like they have the people they work for in their corner. Ubisoft of all companies was one of the only >> demonstrated how the their >> so having them in your corner means that the Twitter account for the game like picks fights with people on Twitter >> beef with Elon Musk >> that's standing up >> that's standing up for the developers >> it's literally just the the the brands need to be cuntier on Twitter only >> lefties are surprisingly super procorporation whenever it suits their own desires This is like a lame like I thought I thought that we were like trying to make a real point here like about like like workplace culture or something. Not like well hopefully like the PR guy that's in charge of the Twitter account makes fights with people on the internet. >> It's so terminally online because none of it matters. What the [ __ ] does anybody care about Twitter engagement? >> Well, this well this is not protecting the developers. Like this helps >> Wouldn't it make it worse? Wouldn't it make it worse? >> I mean I like it software. I'm I'm sad that a bunch of them got laid off, but ultimately the you control the buttons you're press was one of the most cringe things I've ever read on the internet. That was them for Doom the Dark Ages with their accessibility settings. The you control the buttons you press and it gets pared constantly and it makes me want to just tear my head out cuz it's hurting. >> That that you control the buttons you press much older thing. >> Was that in I can't remember >> that was in reference to Dubernel. mad about Square whole like game design thing. Yeah. >> Oh [ __ ] >> Yes, it's old. >> I guess I've just seen it so recently since Dark Ages with the accessibility >> start easy. And >> I've noticed just there started to be a little bit of a a waking up to how stupid of a sentiment that is. Cuz back when that first happened, everyone was like, "Yeah, based awesome. Tell that [ __ ] idiot." Because the criticism being made wasn't fantastic. Um nowadays, yeah, people are a lot less happy with that sort of idea because they're understanding that it's doing a lot of heavy lifting for allowing devs to just make horrible design decisions because you can just choose to not use them, I guess. >> All optional. >> So, of this example he's showing, Grums after this this happened, he died, right? He he stopped harassing game devs after this point. >> They defeated I tell he's still on Twitter. saw with the stones to actually call out the [ __ ] >> But what did that accomplish? >> The idea that this is I I can't believe that like he was about to ramp up to a point of what developers can like what publishers and studios can do to like to protect their employees, which is a totally fine thing to like explore and talk about. And like his solution is that the person who runs the Twitter account should just like pick fights with people on the internet. >> Yeah. That's like that's standing up for the developers. You play a bit of a wild game when you decide to take your product and go out into the wild of social media and talk about it and try and sell it to people because there are plenty of games out there that get immense overwhelming praise that that are uh what's that night's path gamero there's all kinds of games overwhelming praise from people and there's a lot of games not saying there's going to be a pattern to those games that really get you know castigated immensely from all sorts of people on social media. So, I mean, you got to accept the results if you go out and play those games. >> Yeah. >> Hang on there, Mr. Game developer. I know you're suicidal. You haven't seen your family in three days. AI is about to quit [laughter] your job. You have all these things that are worrying about you. The the official Twitter account for our game just owned Grums, so you don't have to take your life anymore. Can you imagine how many lives we're going to be saving with our country? >> I can totally be like Grub's died and they're like, "No, he's like sad though." And we think, [laughter] >> you know, they're choing at the bit to kill them, but they'll say that they just want to give people healthcare. So >> the employee just looks at the boss like, "Do you have time for Twitter?" [laughter] >> I like I just think it shows a fundamental just lack of confidence in your product if you're even bothering to make replies like this. It's like this is what you're doing. Really? This is your best argument for your game that Grums was making a game that isn't out, but you released Assassin's Creed Shadows. Okay. >> Engagement merchants will always fall back on the criticism argument, but that's you are a YouTube channel for profit. That your job is to run a YouTube channel. You don't get to call people engagement merchants. the standard quality here is like average with these [ __ ] with all the lazy channels he's calling out. Anyways, >> it's just really gross and spineless to do all of this with a refusal to name any particular names or kinds of criticism. Like even when we're talking about it's all about a certain >> to get a lot of people fired like oh if people knew the things I knew oh boy it's like oh >> yeah this this really is like you know which people I'm talking about and I was like no you would like to know their names specifically and the person listening to the video while they eat dinner or whatever the [ __ ] they're like yeah I do know those people they're all the people I don't like [laughter] >> oh by the way um I was just told um we were talking about UX earlier. Uh it is the Human Revolution's 15th birthday today. And Mankind Divided is turning 10 today. >> The same day. >> Yeah. August 23rd, I believe. >> Unless the tweet I was sent is lying to me. I don't think people would lie on Twitter, but >> be an odd thing to lie about. I'm just going to trust it. >> He hates me. >> They'll say whatever they need to to rile up impressionable audiences. call anyone who argues against them corporate bootlickers. >> You're just doing the same in reverse. So why >> you just did Yeah, you just literally did the opposite. What's >> the point of this? Why do you make this sort of video, man? >> Yeah, Arian Cunny 6969 said the n-word, which means I can now lump all criticism as that one thing. >> What's probably happened is like some account on Twitter with like three followers called him a corporate bootlicker two days ago. >> Yeah. >> And now he's upset about >> he's made it everyone else's problem. making a video free in his head. >> Of the two parties involved here, that being Second Wind and myself in this instance, one of us has a much much much stronger potential advantage to buddying up to corporations and it isn't me. >> And then cheer on layoffs, excessive executive pay, and people they've convinced themselves. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. >> Excessive executive pay. Yeah, you always got behind. >> Yeah, that one. >> They're the good guys. >> But also the layoff anyone to get fired. Yeah, but they made a shitty product. If I do shitty job at work, I get fired. Why? Why? Who the double cheering for who is cheering for the increasing executive pay? Unironically, I've never seen that from any side ever. >> I'm a believer that you can find every stupid opinion under the sun on the internet if you look long enough. But I haven't I have never seen this one, which is >> you're more likely to see people blaming executive excessive executive pay for ballooning budgets of games to which they add a fraction of a percent at most because people don't understand how finances work. >> I think it's a non-issue that's blamed for many issues. I think it's also an extrapolation of people cheering on layoffs. It's like, "Oh, well, you want all these devs to get fired. I guess you want the executives to make more money." It's like, "No, no, no. We want them to stop paying people who aren't actually doing anything and therefore make the budget smaller and maybe have it so that games aren't a hundred bucks in my country, at least in my country." >> Well, but also like if you want to be talking about like that problem, you know, that's like a bigger problem. That's like a bigger like broader economic issue like that goes beyond video games. the idea of like executive or CEO pay like increasing substantially while like wages don't increase that much like that's beyond games. That's I don't even know like why you're bringing it up. It just feels like there's no point in like getting into this kind of conversation. >> It's never like years ago who was cheering on Bobby Cottic getting raises. >> Yeah, exactly. Come on. Like what are we talking about? Nobody is excited about that. >> Play devil's advocate. I'm I'm fine with it. I don't give a [ __ ] Executive pay is not a problem. Go for it. Make better games. That's all I care about. It doesn't add substantially to the budgets of any game. It's not the cause of any problems associated with it in the world of gaming, which this video is addressing. If that constitutes cheering on excessive executive pay, then I'm happy to do it. But it's not an issue. It's just one of those bug bear things that people like to site when they don't know what they're talking about. >> Well, I guess then you wouldn't call it excessive executive pay then. Um, I would call it, well, he calls it excessive. I'm happy to I'm happy to accept his terms. >> Yeah, you could argue what Gabe Newell takes home is excessive, but that Valve also doesn't >> He doesn't have enough yachts. >> Yeah, >> he deserves a palace in heaven. [laughter] >> He needs another one. Another super yacht. >> He's doing a James Cameron. He's >> all I'm saying is that >> you should have a golden Bowser's castle in space. [laughter] who go thing. >> Suck it, Nintendo. I'm in space. Try to sue me. >> Yeah. On the list of gaming problems, ex executives making too much money is like it's not even top 10. To hate over nothing, being treated poorly by their employers. Their idea of a better industry is one that caters exclusively to them. Something they can't even articulate. There's nothing. >> Oh, he's just playing a commercial for a video game. >> Right. was a bit of a ramble to his just mad >> mad >> decething genuine about the constant drumming up of outrage and before it was one flavor of outrage it was just we've just decided this is the >> ambulance chasers lose their relevancy and they're always screeching loudest near the end >> standing up to bullies inspires others to do the same remeies and oh but also another round of layoffs at all these AAA studios that these outrage merchants were complaining about. I was not out of this movie when I >> remarkable. You have like an official major account and then the bullies arrive and it's a singular account saying you gave a [ __ ] and then another company comes in and says you're a fat loser. They're like yay we beat the [laughter] bullies. It's like what are you doing? >> We rose up. Oh, tussle the hair. The corporation's like, "Yeah, you did it. You beat that bully." And this guy is the one who's just again he's like you gonna call me a bootlicker. Yes. [laughter] >> Yep. >> You're siding with Ubisoft, man. Like, come on. >> Yeah. >> Sore. By not addressing the issue, it's been allowed to fester and become normalized. And everyone's just expected to. >> He should be normalized that consumers are incredibly critical of corporations products. Good. Even if they're overcritical, that's way better than them being complacent. And it's not even close. And he really does think that like just the official Twitter account acting [ __ ] is like the solution to this perceived problem. >> Personify the brand >> because that's how things are. The gaming community could be united behind the actual issues the indust >> he didn't even show the good levels either. Jeez faces like the rampant stagnation games, a generation of wasted money in town on >> live service games at PlayStation that nobody asked for. >> He absolutely >> I hate to break it to you, but like there is absolutely a demand for those types of games. So just cuz you don't like them, I don't like them. I'm not interested in them. But like there is definitely a demand for like Fortnite's like huge. What would you kind of also there's a huge demand for that kind of criticism too, which is what a huge number of people who are very critical of the industry, who he probably doesn't like very much, actually spend a lot of their time talking about these exact same things. It's just that they come from accounts he's associated with bad people. So, he says they don't do that. They just do evil, bullying, racism. But I mean, we've sort of dubtailed around several of these conversations in the course of this anniversary stream. This happens a lot. Loads of people understand this is a problem in AAA. That's partly what they complain about when they complain about games like Bond First Light. It's a stagnant AAA game which was designed primarily as a cash grab >> or PlayStation Live services like Concord that those evil bullies actually got pulled off the internet forever. So, it's like are they ineffective? Now there's a weirdness to it because he's saying that nobody asked for it which implies that he's fine with the criticism against the live service. >> Well, yeah, because this is [ __ ] that he's personally these are his opinions and so they're correct. >> Even though he just said before that like oh these people's problem is that they think that everything should be for them. Anyway, you guys should focus on the real issues which are all of my specific personal like pet issues about the gaming industry. Was it like I mean showing a bunch of Bond first light and then complaining about the stagnation of AAA games as if those aren't the same thing. >> Yeah. >> Out of control pay of executives while justifying layoffs or the killing of physical media leading to less consumer choice. I mean >> yeah all of these things are just not complained about enough by the >> bullies. Yeah about that. >> So right PlayStation's Twitter posts like literally anything they post lately. I guarantee you there's people complaining about the physical games >> get [ __ ] on constantly. >> A lot of people are. It's very It's very prominent right now. >> It's very strange too because what he's advocating for is that Sony would have like normalized the business practice of like clapping back at people criticizing them. So it's like doesn't he realize that would work against what he's interested in as well? >> The problem is doing what I want it to do all the time. What have I done? What monster have I created? Who could have foreseen this? You were supposed to just own Grums on Twitter and now you're supposed to own the threads and give me free things. >> But all these engagement merchants flood the space. >> Uh, you're not allowed to use the word merchant anymore. I'm taking it away. >> It's cringey, >> sir. >> With absolute nonsense while proclaiming they're fixing the industry. These outrage mobs use criticism as a shield, but have no genuine criticism of the art they're supposedly engaging with. >> You are you're not engaging with it. You're not engaging. This [ __ ] pisses me off because he he went like the first time I was like, "Oh, they're just all pretending like it's criticism." Then he shows like five thumbnails that go about like woke slob. [ __ ] cringe. Which I would click on because I think it's cringe as well. But if you want to complain about that, [ __ ] complain about that. Say like, "Oh, I don't want them to talk about, oh, this is woke and this is [ __ ] and this is race bait or whatever." Let's Because there's more than enough examples online you can just go for. But why? Why? He's [ __ ] vague posting on his YouTube channel. >> Yeah, there this guy seems to believe that these these evil people are absolutely everywhere and is yet not used a single actual example of one even which the video could really do with because then we could at least know this is exactly the sort of person he's talking about and exactly the arguments he says aren't really arguments. >> Yeah, just show their thumbnails. That's enough. It's just so annoying because you have there's plenty to things to talk about, but no, I just going to [ __ ] out my seven minute video vague post about it. Pretend like the first half is like, "Oh, this is just not real criticism." And I'm here thinking like, "Oh, you're talking about all the things we like that bond is like going down as a bad thing that we played and all these other things." And then the second half happens here and it's just like, "Oh yeah, it's like all these things we talked about." It's like, "Oh, so you're not actually talking about these criticisms. Maybe if you would have been a bit more clear in the first one, that would have been just that confusing. But [ __ ] hell. >> Anyway, they don't criticize what they're playing. It's always about circumstances surrounding it in the most disingenuous way. >> Well, I got a stream for you. We spent like 9 hours nearly complaining about all the mechanics in Halo. So, you're welcome to eat that right up, sir. Good job. Good stuff. There we go. We're his favorite channel now. You'll never see them make a video discussing the narrative beats of a game. >> We did the [ __ ] narrative. >> Maybe you shouldn't be on social media anymore. >> Side does a very good job at it either. >> It's bad for his mental health, not everybody's mental health. >> Yeah, >> I don't know what's good for his mental health. >> It's weird. So he's casting this wide ass net and now he's narrowing it where it's like they don't make videos discussing narrative beats and it's like well we all do so clearly we must not be in the >> in this net now >> and I think he would take issue with that because we're obviously supposed to be in it. >> I uh amusingly someone in chat has just exclaimed white hunters. [laughter] >> I guess that's true. >> It's their clothes guys. Come on. or the way it plays or how it was made. You'll never see them make a criticism of something that doesn't involve their favorite buzzwords. Why? Why is he trying to get mad? >> Yeah, he's he's outrage that just reminded me of Gman lives and the fact we got Halo gameplay, too. You know, it's like >> this guy walked out on his wife's birth, too. [laughter] >> Or did Skyrim cheat on this guy? I don't know. >> Be there for the father >> was made. You'll never see them make a criticism of something that doesn't involve their favorite buzzwords or isn't targeting a specific person they've supposedly exposed. >> What if it's you? >> I think it was him at some point. >> Closer to the microphone when he says it >> in mind, but he's not sharing it with a class. >> Yeah. What What does he mean by a specific person they've supposedly exposed? Who is that in reference to? What what controversy are we talking about? >> Him right now. >> All of them. if you if you'd be a fan, you'd know what he's talking about, >> right? I'm just I'm not familiar with a ton of like uh controversies that actually focused on like naming names with particular devs. >> Oh, hey C. >> Hey, C. >> Hey, man. >> Are you a engagement merchant, Cap? >> I think I've been called that before. >> Sick. >> I am one. I I I want engagement >> cuz I was gonna say that's awkward if he's not because I've been putting capital merchant in all the descriptions. So [laughter] >> Oh, look at that. There's a watch together. >> Well, yes, there is. We're checking out a fellow who's he's just gosh darn tired of everybody being so outraged at new releases and doing it for money and engagement and it needs to stop. >> He's a very clever guy. >> Stop right now. Enough of this. He's very angry. Like a criticism or something. that doesn't involve their favorite buzzwords. Even did the favorite that [snorts] like came out late. Whoa. >> Yeah, he's leaning into the mic. He's getting upset. The bitterness. >> My favorite buzzword. >> He's got things to say. >> My favorite buzzwords are [ __ ] it, we ball. >> Yeah, >> that's good buzz words. >> Those are good. I like those. Yeah, those are good. >> Or isn't targeting a specific person they've supposedly exposed. >> They know they have nothing of substance to bring to the table, but they always resort to the type of outrage the algorithms will push. >> Like what? respond. >> I thought you said that they were like they were struggling to have any relevance, but now the algorithm >> algorithm tried to sell it like >> 50,000 view videos. >> It's that it's that meme, right, that they're simultaneously weak and pathetic and near death, but also really really strong and aggressive. We got to stop them. >> Everybody does that. [ __ ] everybody does that kind of argument. Doesn't matter who or what it's about. It's the the the opp the opponent is simultaneously fragile but also dominant, all-encompassing, and terrifying. >> Yeah, they're weak, but actually, we're the resistance always, too. >> They're the evil empire. >> You're giving them the energy they're looking for. Don't respond to it. You're a coward. Just ignoring the issue. >> Then do what you do. Don't do either. >> Yeah. Just hang on. like this. >> Is he saying that hypothetically or does is he actually of the opinion that if you don't respond, you are a coward. >> I think he's treating us as like a coward who you're feeding them. >> He's let the the chuds at this point control his whole life. He's like, >> if I do this, they say this. If I do this other thing, they do this. I don't know what to do. I'm trapped. >> In my view, the way to work against this stuff is to keep calling out the nonsense. >> Okay. So, responding. >> So, responding. >> Responding. Okay, good job. >> Choosing to engage in the discussion. >> Let's be clear, responding very vaguely and not really naming anybody out of fear. You know, it's not as chat as you think. You know, could be could be a bit more spine in here. Maybe a lot more >> factecking the lies and for >> factchecking what you just appealed to vague lies. Like they're out there, man. We got to get them. >> Are those lies in the room with us right now? [laughter] >> I think so. >> Companies to stop ignoring it and actually take a stand for once. They were more than happy to do it during the big social movements where they would change their logo or make big statements of support. But in this case, I wonder why they stopped. >> This man does this on blue sky. He doesn't >> corporations [laughter] do not seem to be the allies we thought they were. >> That's crazy. >> Fell for like the propaganda aspect of like he thought that the companies were actually into the gay pride stuff and didn't realize that they were pandering when they were doing it. It's funny because even on the on the the peak of them doing that, if you just look at the accounts from like Saudi Arabia and [ __ ] they just did not change it. I was going to like all of the Middle Eastern like social media accounts would not post Pride flags during Pride Month. And it's like they didn't stand on that [ __ ] That was purely like a marketing thing. >> They've been silent. >> Yeah. >> When their entire creative teams are targeted again and again. I just like that his solution is like, "All right, every account related to our company, stop blasting random individual accounts with any and all insults." Like, this is going to work. >> If they would start doing this, this would backfire so hard. >> Yes, you have to be >> very controlled and very witty if you're going to do any kind of responses like a company account, but even then, you're risking it. You look cringe. It would result in most of them just doing the Stranger Things Tik Tok lady thing where they'd be like, "Yeah, and I'm smarter than everybody and you guys are all just chuds and incelss and then a couple months later, yeah, so I'm leaving Twitter because it's just not good for my mental health." Is exactly what would happen. >> Instead of doing that, what if they hired you and McGregor to do a video from his car telling people not to >> That'll fix it. >> He needs work. On second win, we moderate our comments to make space for real discussions. >> Of course [laughter] that. >> All right. I've I've heard this song and dance before. >> It's weird how it's weird what kind of comments get deleted whenever people say they're making >> who does a [ __ ] ad in their video for comment moderation. Is that [laughter] what this is? >> This just isn't going to man. >> This makes about silencing criticism or dissent. >> It's about making space for the act. >> It's by the way, it's literally always that. Yeah, >> that is that's all 100% of the time. That's what it is. >> What's a great >> get to decide what the actual conversations are >> good stuff. >> It's weird. The people who agree with me in a rude just they they just always get to just keep existing in the space. It's It's kind of strange >> for conversations that need to happen and filtering out all the noise that just >> Yeah. We're just we're deciding which conversations need to happen. >> Oh. Oh, real conversations. The ones that need to happen. Well, you should have just said that in the beginning. I would have understood. >> I understand quite literally that you are able to and as such it is your decision to make, but it really does feel like it's not your decision to make what conversations get to happen around your like work. >> Mhm. >> Also, where's the line too? Like if you have a really cogent argument about the problems of a game and then you end it with TLDDR, this game [ __ ] sucks, is like is that one getting deleted because you're too mean at the end? >> I mean, yeah. A lot of the times, I mean, if it's Reddit, you know, there there's constantly a steady, never ending, infinite stream of horror stories of the moderation going on over there. >> You think these people are have cool enough heads and can be >> Yeah, that Yeah. >> noise that just drags everyone down to that level. >> Outrage takes zero effort. It's why so many of these bums >> n you some out some range is pretty high tier and you should appreciate you want to be good at it. Rage bait is really good actually. >> Good bums. [clears throat] >> Yeah, don't don't just discount the merchants. They try >> a skill issue type thing. >> Yeah, >> that looks delicious. I want a milkshake >> and make it. >> That's the >> You just have to know which buttons to press. >> Building spaces that provide value, constructive criticism, and genuine feedback takes a lot of patience and work. >> I have judged my own spaces to be the best spaces. By the way, >> read Are we going to read the comment section to see what the glorious uh benefit of this was? >> Oh, you want to you want to check out the comment section on this video to see what the discussion is looking like? >> Mhm. I mean, he's if he's going to be advertising it for like over a minute, >> you want to do it now or the end. >> I feel like he's sliding. >> Let's hear the full argument. Let's hear the full argument for the benefits of this. I would say >> the industry could do with a little more of that kind of moderation. >> Yeah. >> Ow, man. Oh, well there you go. >> You want the industry to take control of social spaces and decide what is said in them. That's what you want. >> That seems bad to me. >> Seems like a really, really bad thing. >> I've seen it today. >> I've seen so many Patreon things today and yesterday. Maybe it's time to [ __ ] open one. [laughter] >> Well, Wolverine has been defended, so get get wrecked, losers. >> Bet you didn't see that one coming. Is that what that video was even about? I feel like Wolverine got lost at some point. >> Wolverine was in the >> He's so He's so [ __ ] terminally online that he's vague posting in his videos now about what he's dealing with. >> I I will find it so funny if the second win review of Wolverine ends up being negative, too. It would just be [ __ ] hilarious to me. >> It was just a sixinut be that positive. So, I'm looking at the top comments here and you got praising the [ __ ] out of that game. >> Dude, the one the ones where they say that stopping using X would be a great first step to maintain one's mental sanity. It's just a copy pasta from other [ __ ] sections. Everyone always says this, but they never stop using the [ __ ] site, do they? >> Yeah. Either commit to the bit and don't use it or prune your algorithm better. Tell Twitter what you want responsibly. >> Um, it's not even just games. It's everything. The internet has become a cesspool of criticism and hatred. It's disgusting. >> It's not very constructive. >> A cesspool of positivity and >> he should remove that comment. I don't know. >> Yeah, you should. Rude. >> Um I know quite a few people in real IRL who have said, "Oh, I can't be on X anymore. It's just too crazy. I'm on Blue Sky now." And uh you know, I don't hate them for it. Like it's like if they if that if that's what they want to do, that's fine. But >> I don't know. I just I want to be exposed to the craziness of everything. >> In my experience on Twitter, people will call me the n-word. On Blue Sky, they say that I should be like deported to El Salvador. So, I don't know [laughter] >> that. That's an unironic thing that someone said about me on Blue Sky. you know one top of the other. >> Also, I feel like the people moving to Blue Sky because they don't want to be on X anymore probably aren't making videos where they're like, "Yeah, that's why I like going into the trenches and, you know, mixing it up and telling those people to [ __ ] off." Like, [laughter] it it seems like that is really just not coherent with the argument he made in the video about standing up against the negativity. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, they're voluntarily entering and then closing the door behind the monilo. That's what they're doing. They are fundamentally paranoid, cowardly. They can't stand being around people who say things they don't like and that upset them. Whereas, at least on X, for all of its many, many, many problems and how much of a pointless time sync it usually is. >> If somebody does want to call you the N word, they do it in full knowledge that that's visible for everyone and they don't seem to give a [ __ ] And I kind of respect that more than doing it behind a blue sky filter. >> I agree. >> Yeah. Um, this video is so needed. The industry at large could do with hearing this. >> Uhhuh. >> Exactly. >> Yes. Seeing sex cells lose to rage cells was not on my bingo card. Dude, it hasn't. Sex cells is still the dominant [ __ ] >> I know what I I figured it out. If Microsoft just joined the EFAP chat, they they uh were sitting in the chat and they were calling us all fs slurs one at a time. That >> that would be healing right there. >> Damn. I already like the Gears of War eBay beta. If they start doing this, my soul is yours. >> This, by the way, this stupid [ __ ] perspective leads to bully hunters. That's how the That's how they get created. [laughter] >> Deep bully hunters. >> Like, we're going to take the internet back for the for the heroes. Defeat them bullies. >> Calling all bully hunters. >> They're not flexible enough to do that type of like um online fighting. No, they they have no idea what they're doing. >> Everybody wants to be Yeah, everybody wants to be Donald Trump when it comes to [ __ ] posting, but the thing is that like he's firing off the hip. Everybody else is like having like committee meetings on like like Gavin Newsome's like >> what do we need to post this week that's going to epic style own the conservatars and it's like why are we talking about [laughter] >> because he's my go-to example of like artificial [ __ ] posting on the internet. There's a whole bunch of I mean some some places do it. It's rare like Domino's Pizza is surprisingly good at it, >> but Domino's Pizza very rarely goes after anything in the same niche as itself is very good at is is [ __ ] posting on controversies from other areas. So like it it takes the piss out of Sony's discless thing for example. >> Not going to lie. >> I don't I don't know what they shed on but I wanted to order pizza two days later. was like, "Okay, tell me no." [laughter] >> Wow. >> Part of me just wants to see them get that little spike on their like value to be like, "Yeah, I like shot at." >> I have said before, I will vote for anybody that makes the government Twitter accounts go back to just posting like really boring tweets because I don't want to see them I don't want to see them trying to own people on Twitter. >> Oh, it's so cringe. Well, that I suppose takes us to the return of a famous gentleman that we have now covered once per anniversary twice. >> Famous >> famous inde I mean he must be he wouldn't have labeled his channel. I guess that is a I mean three is yeah at that point that's just like >> I meant he was he he describes himself but you know first though I'm afraid the the talk of you know anti- negativity the the washing of such negativity from the internet means that John's going to have to go he's going to have to work on some things >> just too negative for this stream >> bring us down some people on Twitter >> see the thing is I'm too cool for you guys and I got cooler things to do he's acting he got voted off the We don't have a photo for you. >> No, it's probably like Wouldn't Isn't Is the sun rising for you now, John? >> It is. >> It is here. It's 9:30 in the [laughter] morning. The sun is up. Day is beginning. People are >> People are at work. >> It's 7:30 for me. But yes, the sun is rising. I can see it. >> So, listen, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate you having me on. Um, congratulations. Thank you chat for tolerating me and um yeah, I'll I'll I'll see you guys uh next time. >> Next time >> everybody, thanks so much. >> Byebye. >> Thanks so much, guys. See you later, guys. Everybody >> Yes. Uh I will I will get to our subject in just a moment. I'm simply ensuring the capacity is at its correct limitations, words, gaps, noise to extend the sentence as far as possible. >> Yeah, >> sounds like engagement. [laughter] >> Oh, we need to feel air time to me. >> I can take over the stream. >> We are. It's only a few seconds. It should be fine. >> Oh, that guy again. >> I know. I'm sorry. >> I mean, we can sneak by crossover event. He was the reason I left last time. So maybe I should just go now. Yeah, >> he does not like me. >> So, um, we're all pretty bad at everything and so there's some videos that help us out on different stuff and things. >> That's good. >> And there is one video that we covered back in the day. >> Oh my gosh. >> And it was it was from >> from legendary writer Brandon McNelte. He he really helped us hit a stride on dialogue. Uh, I think part one covered stuff like somebody you like covered Lord of the Rings and you just immediately [clears throat] got it wrong and it pissed all of us off. >> Bilbo stuff. Yeah, [laughter] >> I do not remember this guy. So, I'm excited. >> I do. >> Now that Randoms made his like Fellowship of the Ring analysis videos on the Shire stuff and everything, he would blow a gasket. >> Well, we did a round two last year and his it was still just as entertaining. So, I believe it is time for Brandon, writer Brandon McNelte, to teach us what the difference between bad and good dialogue is for the third time. >> Uh, can I get a bit of lore about this this fellow? >> The way he does it is he'll give you a rule about how dialogue works and then he'll show how it's badly done and then how it's well done and he usually gets it wrong. He's he's really consistently hilarious on these things with his rules and stuff. But yeah, he's made like 20 plus of these and so we were like, well, we'll get through them all eventually. >> I'm quite excited. [laughter] >> We're on number three. >> And uh >> yeah, there's a link to watch together if anyone isn't in it. But uh here we go. >> Yeah, let me check. >> Get ready for round three. Today we're going to tear apart five brand new types of >> Mr. Freeze. I do like the title of this. How how is his bad dialogue verse good dialogue round three >> and then in parenthesis parenthetical >> this time he's gonna get >> has he written a book >> probably lots of he's a writer >> yeah writer Brandon >> oh >> he's a superstar in the lit litary world >> he doesn't [ __ ] around writer Brandon McNelte >> he does [ __ ] around he's a he [ __ ] does he [laughter] >> he nies everywhere your eyes. He's gonna melt inside you. You're not kidding. >> Oh god, we're getting some rose tico. Yes. Oh my god. My name is Brandon McNelte. I'm the author of Oh yeah, he's answering the questions. >> And welcome to my ride. >> A lot of my subscribers have been asking me to do more bad versus good videos. So, I thought we'd start with another round of bad dialogue versus good dialogue. Sweet. >> We're going to have a lot of fun today. And we're going to start with a quick refresher on what makes good dialogue good. And there are three things here. The first one is that good dialogue sounds natural and appropriate. And this is in terms of the character speaking it, the setting. >> I feel like appropriate is going to be the one word he needs. >> That's the contentiousness. Yeah. >> In which it is spoken, the tone of the story, and also the current situation in the story. And you have to remember different stories will require a specific type of dialogue. For example, what Super Mario says won't work if it's spoken by Michael Corleó from The Godfather. >> A really good point. >> You don't know. >> You don't know that. [laughter] >> Michael, >> you broke my heart. Luigi [laughter] >> Mario Luigi. >> Maybe Veto Corleó could say that. It's >> what if someone asked him what is a catchphrase of his favorite Nintendo character, then he would say, "Oh, it's a me Mario is what he would say." So, it's very Michael's still alive by the time the original Super Mario is out. >> Michael says in his movies wouldn't work if they were spoken by Mario. Character setting, tone, and situ. >> Don't ask about my business. Peach would be a [ __ ] [laughter] >> They probably have a trouble with how much she gets captured by Bowser. I bet there's a lot of issues going on between Mario and Peach. So, >> my Peach, that's great. I would love to see that. And then the door. I guess it would be Luigi or charge. [laughter] >> If you're a plumber, what's plumbing? >> The green pipes. >> I can't answer. >> Now, the second thing good dialogue does, it attacks and defends. This means that every time obviously not true. What if it just describes or answers a question? Rule number one from Stranger from Riverwood. >> That's an attack rag. That was an attack. >> Rule number one is like good dialogue is good question with an answer. >> It's kind of like really true. >> And like I mean just writing wise A and there's four things but there's no B, C, or D in the sub. [laughter] >> I would have just put a little a little dash. I would have done a dash. I mean, this this is to understand if you've got >> Doesn't one a situation kind of contradict attacks and defense? Because not every situation calls for an attack or a defense. >> Not all attacks or defenses are appropriate. What if you're just talking about >> the vast majority of all the things that you say in the things that are good dialogue just aren't attacking or defense. Sort of like declarative or, you know, imperative. >> Every sentence is an attack against like entropy really. If you think about it, >> every every is an attack. >> You're expending energy. You're you're accelerating input entropy by expending the energy to speak, right? >> But imagine I said like one of the three pieces of advice is character setting, tone, and situation must sound natural and appropriate. It's like wait, I thought isn't have you just not said it needs to the good good dialogue needs to be good. There's like a That is so broad an umbrella. >> Umbrellion. >> That's natural dialogue. >> That's what it would be if Tolken wrote it. He would say >> it's kind of the big complaint people have about the Odyssey, right? That a lot of the dialogue just doesn't sound appropriate for the setting tone and like >> I actually haven't seen the movie. I've just seen you guys talk about it and that seemed to make sense. >> The question is, is it attacking and defending dialogue though? >> Maybe, maybe not. Because if it's that, then it might it might be appropriate for it to not sound natural. >> Character speaks, they should be trying to learn something or hide something or intimidate someone or protect someone. And then the third thing that good dialogue does, >> what if I'm asking what's for dinner? >> That's an attack. >> You want to learn something? Yeah, that's right. >> Give me one suggest. >> You're asking for information. >> He's attacking ignorance. The thing the thing is if I if I'm going to be a little [ __ ] here for a second, you can literally classify any >> sentence as doing this in terms of because it's such a broad definition. >> Yeah. >> Uh I dis I I mean I suppose I disagree in the sense that like I don't think this is something that can be applied to all dialogue. Like the usefulness of this is hey this is something to consider in some circumstances whether or not you know your dialogue is satisfying this criteria but you know it could be this one or it could be another one as well like this is one on a list of potential things that it's um I remember one that I heard I can't remember where it was from is like the dialogue should be achieving more than like one thing at a time but like what that what that means you can mix and match depending on you know what you need to achieve which I think is like a better way of thinking about it >> if you want to be using what is >> uh why >> I think there's I think there's a lot of appropriate times where dialogue is very specifically trying to address only one thing >> I yeah it's you want to say it's accomp well okay let's say you have a piece of dialogue that's like just two characters kind of shooting the [ __ ] and catching back up that really only establishes one thing it's their relationship >> necessarily if one of them says hey you want to grab a beer necar like stop attacking me. >> But sometimes dialogue just has to be like, you know, setting the tone for a scene. And >> like thinking about doing more than one thing at a time is are you maximally taking advantage of like every line of dialogue that's available to you? Sure. >> Is there an opportunity to give it a little bit more meaning? Is there an opportunity to imbue it with some subtext or foreshadowing? Like I think that's a good way of thinking about dialogue is to think about is interesting. Okay, I'll give you I'll I'll give you that if you will accept um sometimes mundane dialogue exists for tone setting and that's like the secondary accomplishment. >> No, I mean I I agree. I mean I I'm not like I'm not I'm not attached to these kinds of writing rules. >> Yeah, I do think you're correct. If you can do it and it sounds natural and appropriate real, >> it's more like a guideline rather than you should be going line by line by line by line to make sure that there >> depending on how deep you want to go with any given line. Say for example, someone says, "I'd like to have a beer." And then someone goes, "Well, that's a very single layer line there. You could spruce that up." And it's like, "No, it's actually quadruple layered." It's that he's asking for that beer as opposed to any other drink. He's asking now at this time, at this day. That tells you a lot about this character. So that he's asking who's standing. >> He's asking the p the person he's asking in spec specificity like that means so much as well. You be like well >> exists here exists in this world. So that's world building. >> It's like that's five layers to the question. Wow. >> Really all dialogue complies with >> maybe the issue is like labeling it as attack and defense is a really weird way to >> I think so. Yeah. describe dialogue when so much of it comes across as just obviously passive. Because if you say what is dialogue that is attacking, it's like making a recrimination or an accusation towards somebody and defending would be well someone's will defense against somebody doing those things to them. >> It's kind of like that's just how we read that. >> Yeah. I'd like to have a beer example to stretch that into an attack. You would have to assume it it's saying it to someone who's a recovering alcoholic. That's the only way I can. >> I'm implying an order. I'm implying that like that is an imperative sentence that I'm kind of creating. There's an implication of give me a beer or provide me with one and you have to defend that with either complying with it or pushing back against it and denying me. But that at that point we're just like what are we doing man? Calling this attack and defense. >> I would I would say the simple rule is accomplish an objective. >> Yeah. But it should have a purpose. maybe like dialogue, even if it's like there's a reason why people say the things that they do, even if it's subconscious or the character doesn't necessarily understand the full intent of what they say, which happens all the time. Um, but the the Doll should have some kind of a purpose. Don't waste time maybe. I mean, kind of what Fringy said, essentially it ties into that to maximize things. Look for ways to naturally get across multiple pieces of information. I I mean at the same time though there's movies that the entire enjoyment behind them is the useless dialogue. Like I think Clerks is probably a good example of that. The sort of dumb conversations that Randall and Dante have about movies are the funny parts of that movie and they don't really have anything to do with anything. >> But if you look at like the humor in something like Smiling Friends where they just have very like almost an out ofplace mundane and normal conversations when they live in this kind of wacky silly world. The purpose of them is to not have a purpose almost >> um with how normal they are to establish stuff like that. So >> does it expresses unspoken meaning or subtext? >> Disagree with that. >> So does all good dialogue have to have subtext? >> What is he saying? That good dialogue needs all of these things or one of them >> or just guidelines for writing. I want to say I think all of them here. >> Well, here's the thing. You have to be I'm I'm going to really have a really really high stand. This is an author, a writer. This is the writer branding McNelte who nols all over the place. So, I'm going to be really picky and hold him to a high standard how he through text gives this information. He has written this in a way that implies very strongly that it needs to have one, two, and three. >> Yes. >> Yeah. He could have said elements of good dialogue. He just said what good dialogue does. So way he constructed it. >> Well, let's get to some examples that some people aren't going to be subtextual. A lot of the times we, as I said, the vast majority of things that you do say and are said to you, there is not subtext. They're just telling you what they feel because we're just trying to have a conversation. Man, we got [ __ ] to do. >> And the thing to remember here is that when characters speak, there should be meaning beneath the surface of their words. Now, here's [snorts] a clip from Breaking Mad that hits all three points. >> But like what if it's a character that does in the most straightforward literal ways? >> I guess that would fall under the umbrella of the first rule which is to be natural which overpowers rule three. It only works if you can like expand it out to the point of being vacuous again because yeah, like the unspoken meaning there would be like this character like the essentially the internal psychology of the character in question at which point it's like dialogue should come from the internal psychology of the individual speaking it which folds into rule one and becomes dialogue is good when it's good. >> So I don't really get it. And Breaking Bad is, of course, the story of Walter White, a chemistry teacher who teams up with a former student of his named Jesse Pinkman. And the two of them start a meth business together. And the clip I'm going to show you is from season two. It's a scene where Walt and Jesse are trying to build a battery using basic resources. I'll play it for you now. >> What shall we use to conduct? >> I'm just going to be careful. Just going to be nice and careful here. >> Fully recommend Breaking Bad, by the way. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's a indie TV show they made on a shoestring budget. It came out on channel 73 once >> with Malcolm in the Middle Star Brian Cranston. >> What one particular? >> No, that's Hugh Lori. Hugh Lori was Steuart Little's dad. Oh yeah, that's true. Ignore me. >> Element comes to mind. >> Crazy. >> That's a good moment. >> [laughter] >> W on the periodic table. >> So this works because both characters sound natural. >> Oh natural. >> Okay. [laughter] Appreciate that. >> Very helpful. >> Passion. >> The issue here is that if you don't have context for the show, you're going to have to take him at his word that this is natural for the both of them. >> There is an elaboration follow. >> Yeah, I was going to say that. >> So this works because both characters sound natural. Walt's passion for chemistry and teaching come out in his words. And Jesse's airheaded enthusiasm shines here as well. You also have attacking. And >> I mean, this >> Yeah. The Oh. Oh, that is how he wants to use attack defense. Oh, yeah. Stupid cuz even here you're trying we're adding like just No, don't do that. You're adding complexity where it's pointless. >> I'm not satisfied with point one. I want like specific delving into the choices of words and how they are spoken and like how the entire sequence is written from both characters perspectives. And I don't think concluding Jesse's airheadedness is like the most insightful read you could get out of why Jesse is behaving in that sort of way. Like I don't know. >> I don't think we've really done enough work. >> I think just call and response would work far better than attack and defense for what he the way he seems to be using it. I'm scared of anybody who contextualizes I'm scared of people who contextualize conversations in the sense of like a mental sparring because it's just >> why >> it's not always don't be so confrontational. >> Yeah, stop [laughter] attacking. >> I'm trying. Yeah, stop attacking. Yeah, but it's he's he's attacked. So now you have to defend. What's done is done. >> I have to defend. Uh uh uh. [ __ ] >> Walt's not even I win. I win. I [laughter] win. He's not combative in the way he's asking the question anyway. You know what I mean? This isn't this isn't really challenging him. >> You know what I mean? It's not an attack in any meaningful sense of the word. >> So, yeah. Isn't it just Walter like kind of stroking himself off of how smart he is with uh >> he's trying Yeah. He's trying to induce Jesse to answer the question himself. >> It's definitely an invitation to an answer he thought Jesse had. you he would have figured it >> like it's not like he's he's like I'mma teach him a lesson here. It's more we've been working together. We've achieved a lot and I know I believe that you know this. You know this. You Oh, you don't know this. Okay. >> Defending. Walt challenges Jesse to answer the question. >> Yeah. I would not phrase this as he challenges Jesse to answer the question when it's clearly like a cooperative thing. He he thinks that Jesse's going to nail it. >> I don't even think it's >> really wants him to do well here. I he because to be cooperative implies that he would accept Jesse's counterp proposal for how to solve the problem. >> No, I'm saying cooperative in the sense that he had no expectation that Jesse would fail the He barely even sees it as like a challenge. He's just like this is what we have, right? And then he expects Jesse to be like, "Yeah, copper." And he's like, "Hey, >> he says wire." And he's like, "Hey, >> like, well, it is a copper wire, but wire isn't an element. It's >> you were my student also in high school. So >> like you didn't you didn't move into being like no think about blah blah blah. He was just he was just like oh I thought we were I thought we were vibing you know but okay >> there's a funny there is a funny element to the joke which is that wire is an element in the sense of electrical engineering. >> What are you an electrician? A magician? >> A musician? >> Why why are you attacking me so much? I can't defend. >> Damn. put up your shield. >> And Jesse attempts to meet that challenge. And then finally, there's subtext here as well. There's meaning beneath the surface of their words. They're not simply discussing chemistry or how to build a battery. They're trying to build a fatherson type subtext. >> Father and son a little far. Master apprentice maybe. >> Uh, Brandon McNeie, what are you talking about? >> I don't know about this. >> Is this the most interesting subtextual element of the scene? Because I would go for like the the Walter establishing like a intellectual hierarchy between him and and Jesse as being >> I see it almost as a test of a bridge too like uh how close are we? And then the realization like we really aren't we are from different worlds. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Well and maybe also the idea that Walt wants a protege and he's like well maybe you're picking we're in season two now. Are you finally picking stuff up? Are you getting closer to being who could eventually be my successor? Oh, no. I guess not. >> Something that Walter H doesn't have in his life and an absence there. He's like an individual who can he can actually like bounce off of intellectually. He is surrounded by people he considers to be his lessers in that regard. So, he's trying to like >> build Jesse up as his partner in that way and like trying to establish a connection in that way. It's a father, >> someone he can talk to about this subject, >> which is something he is clearly excited by in terms of like how to actually accomplish cooking the meth and everything, but he can't really talk to it about anyone else because it's a secret. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He doesn't want anywhere near that world. >> And Jesse would be the closest because Jesse's been doing like a lot of cooks with him by this point. Like they are no strangers to the process. He wants to share his enthusiasm for the process of actually making this and the problem solving that goes into it. >> So, uh, seems like we're broadly, uh, no on this one, I'd say. Yes. >> Swinging a miss. >> Okay. >> All right. Now, let's talk about bad dialogue. And for this video, I came up with five brand new types of bad dialogue. What I'm going to do, I'm going to go through each type. I'm going to explain what it is. Then, I'll give you an example of the bad dialogue. And then, I'll give you a good example for comparison. First type of bad dialogue is forced comedy. You'll often hear this referred to as bthos. And what this is, it's when you disrupt serious or sincere dialogue with [laughter] an unnecessary joke. And the problem here is that it undercuts the emotion in a scene and it can often come off as phony or unnatural and it can also muddy the subtext of a conversation. Now, for a bad example, let's take a look at Star Wars: The Force Awakens. And this movie opens up with >> Well, we're experts on the Force Awakens, so let's do it, buddy. Hang on. Little writer writer niggle here. Bad example. Is this a bad example of this or is this a good example of bad writing? >> Oh, I don't think he would be that's that's for a writer to figure out. Mr. McNelte here is a different breed. He knows what he's doing. >> Tension and an introduction to our villain, Kylo Ren. He's initially portrayed as this threatening presence. He kills an old man in the midst of a conversation and everything builds toward a confrontation between Kylo Ren and a fight. >> Oh, I know where we're going. This is the >> um >> You talk I talk. >> Yeah. Which is really bizarre because he just watched his friend die that he had a big angry reaction to. >> Yeah. >> Pilot named Po. And here's their dialogue exchange. Notice how humor undercuts the emotion in this scene. >> Espurn. >> So, who talks first? Too tough for us. >> Just got to be careful, you know. Just just got just got to be really careful. Make sure we're just still wants to claim credit for this movie. >> Oh man, definitely right here. >> I don't even think this is hard to understand this. >> Last Jedi is worse about this, but >> depends what he says. With all of these things, it always depends how he [ __ ] says the things. >> This sucks because while humor fits Po's character, it does not fit the situation. Um, humor in this situation is what I would say. >> Yeah, the character shouldn't be using humor right right at this moment. >> He shouldn't be. Yes, he is a funny guy. He says funny things, but not right now. Not at this moment. H I would >> Yeah, because you could say it would fit the situation in any but but like for for a person who hadn't watched their presumably friend or mentor die as in like he could have made that joke if he wasn't recently very furious and emotionally compromised from what just happened. So it's like fits the character is not >> is not right. I don't think um but that could just be a >> a weird definition. I >> think the character is right. The situation is >> No, but that's that's the character. The character would not make humor humorous jokes in this moment. And that's who he is. Like he's the kind of person that wouldn't >> mind. >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. It might be a definitions thing or a semantics thing. The humor undercuts the severity of the scene. And remember, this movie opened up with tension, high stakes, and death. A lot of dark stuff, but the humor betrays that tone. The writers get cute here when they should. >> All those two things the same. >> My god. >> Yeah, right. They're similar. >> Writer I agree with writer Brandon McNelie. But but I mean undercuts the severity of the scene and humor betrays the tone are the same exact >> this isn't even a development. >> Okay. But aren't there so many movies where something horrific happens and there's sort of a joke that goes along with it that kind of adds to the horror of the scene in a way. So you need to tell me why this doesn't work while other >> examp what's happening in the scene can't like have comedy in it and then the second thing is you can't have comedy because of the situation and the third one is you can't have comedy because of the situation like you can just these are all the same he needs to be more specific in this >> well I think it's a problem that he's he gave one example for a scene that hits his good dialogue points, but not a scene that it does not hit any of them. And then now he's going to baos and like here's why humor undercutting severity is bad. >> But are we going to see a good use of baos or is it >> I was going to say, didn't he say there was going to be good examples of these styles of writing? >> Yeah, the good will come after he's done telling us why this >> We don't have to we don't have to mentally conjure. >> Oh, wait. Are you sure about that? cuz uh cuz like with Oh, what? Oh, wait. Yeah. Yeah, that I think you're right actually cuz the Breaking Bad one was comedy. >> Just let the tension ride. We're only a few minutes into the movie. We >> But no, but to go to I can't Sorry, I can't remember if it was Cap or Theo or someone else, but that uh there are plenty of moments where you would be able to cut the tone harshly and he's I feel like he does need to explain like why this one definitely can't. >> Mhm. Oh, just just as just as an aside, the the good baos I'm already thinking of an example right now, but it has no dialogue and I'll I'll see if he actually brings it up if he provides a counter example. >> So, don't need a breather from the tension just yet. And the biggest problem here is that the moment characterizes Kylo Ren as weak. >> I don't think I agree with that. I don't >> That's wrong though. That's [laughter] he just killed he just killed the guy and stopped a plas. >> I understand the logic of this. I I think that the intention with the scene was Po like intentionally trying to undermine the aura of Kylo Ren with a joke and then he's reading that as well now Kylo Ren looks weak which I disagree with. >> Defend. He's been attacked and now he must defend when he's actually just Chad ignoring it. >> Oh well. So yeah, >> the weakness on Kylo's end as far as I'm concerned on Ryan's scale is he should be mentally torturing Po immediately to get the location of BB-8, but instead they go all the way up to the mother ship first and then they do it, which is stupid. >> I only torture my torture room. Gosh. >> Well, see, would it be a is he would he argue that it's a display of strength if he like just lashed out and immediately like attacked Po for the stupid joke or >> Well, it would likely be a weakness thing if he did it because he was like, "Stop insulting me." But if he did it cuz he's just trying to get the information on BB-8, then I guess that's, you know, that's just that's pragmatic. >> What if you cut off one of Po's hands? >> Yeah. I don't know. This is either not specific enough or the the Kylo Ren comment. I don't know. I don't think I don't think that works. >> He should be this intimidating villain, but Po is cracking jokes in his face, not taking him seriously. >> Okay, but you already said that humor fits Po's character. He already admitted that it does fit that the character is not this moment. He wasn't referring to the fact that Kylo is here and that he can't do the joke because it would undermine the villain. Like the the whole implication of the first point I thought is that Po would attempt to do this with Kylo in any normal situation. >> But it's it's weird, right? Cuz I think it makes I I agree that it makes Kylo stronger because he just ignores him, right? It it's the >> he doesn't acknowledge what he's saying. >> Yeah. I don't get mad. So, >> I really don't mind the character writing in this scene. I like the notion of uh Po like switching gears really fast now that he's caught. Like he's thinking on his feet he's going to insult this guy to like undercut Kylo Ren who takes himself like way too seriously. Like I think that's a fun interaction. >> It um um killing uh I forget the character's name, but Maxono is the actor. It it pulls Po out of like hiding to try and take revenge immediately and it fails. I think that there's enough emotional weight there that >> you should get a little bit more than immediately going to comedy. >> And it's also it's an important part of the movie that Kylo Ren is in several respects weak. Like Kylo is not Darth Vader. If Darth Vader had entered the scene in a new hope and someone had immediately quipped to him, that would have been a problem because that goes excuse me contrary to whatever Darth Vader was supposed to be. But Kylo Ren is not Vader. Kylo Ren is immature, childish in many ways, a completely inconsistent [ __ ] as the films go on, but like he he's not this doineering force he presents himself as being. >> I think it's all in how you write Kylo Ren's reaction to it cuz like him Chad stoically going through it contradicts with the whole like he's a weak, impulsive kind of [ __ ] guy. >> Yeah, the Force Awakens is not very good. But um >> it is not >> I don't know if I don't know about this this assessment. This was uh he could have could have done a bit better. >> I think he gets one out of four. That would be like >> fails to punish Po for this. This is >> I mean he captures him >> and writer Brandon is losing me guys. [laughter] >> Engaging a punishment or anything. Let's see what his good example is. And >> things that it registered that indicates more of a response. >> Not the way you want to introduce the villain of your epic trilogy. Now, for a good example, let's look at a similar scene from the original guy. >> It's roughly the same scenario. Here you have Darth Vader confronting a rebel about the stolen Death Star plans. I'll play it for you now. >> Where are those transmissions you intercepted? What have you done with those? >> Copyright. We should be broadly okay. But yeah, Disney is like the chillest out of all the people with the clips. I wish everyone would like Disney. >> I don't know what >> are not [clears throat] quite as good now as they used to be. >> A >> but they are still okay. >> We intercepted those transmissions. >> 5 minutes ago I followed her and killed like a bunch of guys in a hallway [laughter] to get here. So I know that's a lie. Come on. a ship. >> Actually think there's a better counter example than this even. I think cuz this doesn't have the quipping in it. So like if you want to show how a villain, a strong villain, excuse [clears throat] me, is is supposed to deal with a character telling jokes at their expense whilst retaining their authority. Princess Leia's first meeting with Tarkin is probably a better one because she does quip at him. I should have rec I recognized your foul stench as soon as I was brought aboard. And then you get to see how he >> kind of quips back but [ __ ] throws [clears throat] D. Sorry. Oh my god. [laughter] Are >> you okay? >> He's done. >> My throat's absolutely [ __ ] >> He's getting attacked. >> Um, but he he he quips back at her in a way that immediately reestablishes his authority. And then it's the body language element. And he clearly is just in total command of his situation, which probably is a closer direct parallel to a better way of doing what he's talking about. >> He's not going [clears throat] to show an example of like how you could use humor in an otherwise tense scene. >> I'm guessing not. [clears throat] Yeah. We're on a diplomatic mission. >> If this is a counselor, >> Got to be careful there. Just make sure you're doing the post. Where is the ambassador? >> Wow, you broke his throat, idiot. >> Yeah. So, it doesn't work because this isn't an example of Baos as little was saying, >> but also there's a huge contextual difference in the sense of like >> Kylo Ren was talking to Po. Darth Vader is choking this guy the [ __ ] out. like obviously your capacity to make jokes in this situation is vastly different. >> Well, not to give TFA being it doesn't come across as immature either. >> TF TFA like doesn't deserve any praise, but there's a difference between these scenes and that you could argue it's definitely done on purpose as in Vader and Kylo. There's there's big differences between those characters. Kylo is weaker. Kylo is >> less like experienced. Kylo as and you know you could argue that their portrayals are trying to match that especially because Lawrence Casden you just built with with JJ the repeat of A New Hope. That was their plan. So they just took scenes and redid them. But they were like well the character is a bit different. So go this direction. I'm not going to say they were successful even at all. >> Give them it flowers even if they're like you know wilted and deadless. >> Still have to give it like that little bit. >> I handed to him like did did you pee on these flowers? And I'm like no. Why [laughter] would you say that? >> I fertilized them. >> This works because it's sincere. It fits the >> Okay, this doesn't work though. It's not. >> No. No. But it's not. Yeah. Yeah. The example I was thinking of was Logan in spoilers for Logan if people haven't watched it. Uh >> in the middle of the movie where Professor X dies and Logan was just hiding [laughter] his emotions and [ __ ] and he just breaks down and smashes the [ __ ] gravestone. And that that scene was so f or that scene was so funny to me. But and this this scene is this is not funny. This is not Bos. >> Yeah, I think we misunderstood him. So his counter example is going to be the why it works the the one two three. Not >> okay. >> He's not he's not going to do baos but in a good way which like obviously invites us to like come up with examples of like that style of writing but done appropriately. >> Yeah. >> His argument is >> sorry. His argument is that forced comedy is bad because it's forced. And then he doesn't give an example of non-forced comedy. He just says don't do comedy seriously. >> No comedy better. >> Well, that's the thing. His example is here's a similar scene with no Boss. See how much better it is? It's like, well, I mean, but so are you saying Baos is always bad in all circumstances, no matter what? >> By implication. Yes. >> He hasn't quite I mean, Baos is comedy isn't actually necessary for Baos either. So he's kind of [ __ ] [clears throat] sake he's got that wrong. Um Boss is any sudden change from a really grand serious subject to a relatively small or trivial one. Often times it is comedic but it doesn't need to be comedic. There are other ways to do it which do not involve comedy. >> I don't know if Vader chucking a guy against a wall counts as bathos given that that you're about to lead into him shouting about getting the plans back. I'll I'll ask so if you hard cut to another scene that's Levity like let's say that the next scene after Vader like killing that guy is like Princess Leia's cat is that is that baos does that ruin the sequence >> if you hard cut from that scene him strangling the guy to someone murdering his cat >> is it is it bad if it's within the scene the undercutting element happens or can you cut to the next scene which has a different tone so that you break up the kind of the tonal building. >> Doesn't depend on the transition. Like if the guy was screaming and you cut to the cat going, >> it would also depend on the intent. Like are are you intending to undermine the scene? >> If you're intending to do it and you succeed in doing it, then it's a good example of baos. If you are not intending to do it, but you do it inadvertently, it's a bad example of boss. I would say the intention would be, you know, you have this like very hard scene and then you're like, "Okay, I'm going to give the audience a break for a second by uh doing something that's a bit more light-hearted," which I assume is how they would justify. I've seen this justification before in regards to we have to add the shitty humor because the tone is too dark for the audience otherwise. >> Yes. Like Marvel whiplash humor. You can't ever take anything too seriously for too long. you have to have that sort of very sudden cut back to it. >> There's legitimate grounds to do that. I'm sure we could all give examples like my my go-to would be Firefly does it a lot of general kind of serious Yeah. serious tone and then you know light comedic bits so that you don't get too like depressed with what's going on. I believe is the intention. >> It's one of Weeden's more famous quotes. So, I want to say something like go dark, go horrible, kill everything, ruin everything, but for God's sake, tell a joke, I think is what he his quote is. Try and, you know, provide a light in the tunnel sort of thing. Um, >> wound up in the wrong hands far too often. >> Oh, yeah. >> Platoon, your dialogue, it's it's so effective. Should we get writer Brandon McDonald to fix you? >> Yeah. Please. Yeah. He's going n down my throat. I'm sure that'll >> nify nullify me. >> Oh god, >> he's going to [laughter] ny all over or something. Holy. >> We need him to n platoon's throat. >> Oh god. >> He's going to teach us all the nolts and boats bolts of good dialogue. >> You got it. >> Nols and bolts. Nols and bolts [laughter] >> and the situation. Remember this is not the time for comedy. >> Also, by the way, just like why does the what you just saw that Vader seed work? Like well it fits the character. It fits the situation. Okay, >> this is a serious intro scene. It's >> not a time for comedy situation with this in mind. >> A serious intro. >> And it also attacks and defends here. Vader demands answers. The rebel >> Well, so did the first scene. >> Yeah. >> But you can't be bringing this inad Ren's uh sensibilities and Kylo Ren defend the stoically >> stoically staring him down. >> Yeah. calls out that lie before punishing the rebel. And the best part here is that this characterizes Darth Vader as strong. And >> well, we already did that with Kylo when he killed the other dude. So >> yeah, I'm >> sorry. Time out. It's Vader is not stoic here. He he shouts after he froze the guy on the [ __ ] things. Commander, tear this ship apart. >> Leave the passengers. I want them alive. >> I want those plans now. It's Mafongo night in 4 hours. You know the schedule. It was my day off. I got called in. >> Bring me a milkshake. And then he storms off. >> Ruthless. >> I mean, if you're going for stoic, Kylo was more stoic than Vader if just just by the scene at least. Yeah. >> I mean, yeah. If direct comparison to those particular moment >> we should take seriously. Second type of bad dialogue. >> Oh, we're off. Next one. >> But also time. Also, I have to I can't believe I'm defending Kylo. Kyle was stopping a beam in the middle of the [ __ ] dialogue before he >> We're only talking about dialogue here. >> He didn't say stop beam. Doesn't count. >> Yeah, he didn't say action. He said dialogue. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Wow. Weekend, you [ __ ] [ __ ] You ruined the entire stream, bro. >> I'm sorry. Raider Brandon [laughter] is info dump dialogue. This is where you have character. >> Okay, this is the easiest one ever, right? Like info dump. He so he just he just hates the technique of bathos. He >> apparently >> he's not going to use it. He's not going to have a counter example of when baos is actually appropriate. He just hates it. So everything here is not >> techniques you could use appropriately. It's more of a list that you don't have to use ever. >> You're spilling info related to backstory, the plot, or world building. And it's a cheap and lazy way to convey story details. And it often sounds long- winded and unnatural. >> So, so this is just three points of it's lazy. >> This is what it is. Characters spilling info in a cheap and lazy way sounding long-winded and unnatural. That is what an info does. >> If what makes it cheap and lazy like you can't just Well, yeah, cheap and lazy is bad. The whole point of this little thing is to identify cheap and lazy. >> You know what's kind of funny? >> One of these things just begs the question because the conclusion is embedded in the premise. >> Yes. Well, and and you can always recontextualize all of these claims into like so writer Brandon McNelte, I have a character who's writing a play in the world and he's actually kind of a bad writer and so all of his characters are using this dialogue. Would that then make the dialogue good because the context is I'm trying to make realistic bad dialogue? And I guess you'd be like, well, yes, in that case, because that would be appropriate and it's like sounds like you are wasting time with all of these qualifiers. It seems like appropriateness just is the one word or something >> for a bad >> go through the scene first and then say why it's lazy cuz obviously >> the rebel moon character establishment scene and I'm going to be really >> Yeah. Yeah. Like the as you know kind of scenes. >> This might have been made before that. I think this is pretty old. >> Let's take a look at Troll 2. [laughter] >> Pretty old. If you haven't seen Troll Tower, it's a legendary '90s movie about a family that gets trapped in a small town full of hostile goblins. And early on, we meet the family on the eve of their vacation, and we get a clear sense that they're about to go on a trip. Then, the teenage daughter invites her boyfriend, and she info dumps all the vacation details to him. I'll play the scene for you now. >> Where are we going? >> Neilbog, a wonderful half empty town. It's an exchange. A family from the country is coming to live here, and we're going to live in their house. Oh, it will be. >> I feel like the performance is the weakness here. >> Yeah, some of that information is okay. >> Yeah, she spaced that properly. >> This performance is the performance is really bad here. >> Excuse me, Rex. This is writing. We are writing. >> No, but that's this is writing. >> Writer Brandon McNeli is saying this is bad exposition when I think the problem is the performance, not the exposition. >> Yeah, there's some there's some exposition in there that I >> It wasn't It's not fair. We called we called out weekend on his action plan. Now we're going on about performances. >> I think you could still fault the just the the language like she is speaking like too formally too perfectly. It doesn't sound natural to go back to the >> problem. I don't know if anyone's super familiar with Troll 2. Is is there an argument like she's trying to impress this guy >> with sound? >> Seems like it's it's her boyfriend who just doesn't know what's going on. Considering the life that this movie has had since it released, you could maybe make the argument that they're going out of their way to make it sound campy and bad because that that's kind of the value of this movie. >> I think but part of the value being really funny is that it wasn't trying to >> I would figure that. >> Okay, fair enough. >> Wonderful. >> And also, you know, like it is this isn't one of those as you know scenes because I think he he doesn't know this already. >> Well, you did. The biggest the biggest problem here is the way it's said. It feels very stilted and unnatural. Like I mean you could say this in a more natural way and there wouldn't really be any problem especially if her character speaks like this throughout. I don't remember if she speaks like this throughout in terms of how formal the language use is but I it's hard to separate the performance from whether the dialogue is actually good. And I don't think he's going to make any effort to do that. >> You and me in the woods. >> So this sucks because the camera unbelievable speech. >> Unbelievable. That's the performance, too. >> Yeah, >> if it was intentional, it would be kind of funny if she like starts looking at the camera and talks about like how, oh, we're going to have sex, too. That like it's so campy the way that it's presented. But >> in the context of they were actually trying to make a movie that was taking itself seriously, then yeah, it's pretty shitty. This is like >> it seems like kind of a well poisoned example too because like there there's so many movies that have bad clunky exposition that you could have used that aren't just like a look at this silly comedy from the 80s or movies that >> you should he should be like I'm going to take a bad He did go after Lord of the Rings in the first part. Do more of those ones. >> I did. >> Yeah, take a shot at least even though you failed miserably the last time. I kind of like respect the sheer audacity. I'm think I'm trying to think of like what his example would be. Would it be like Gandalf explaining the history of the rings to Frodo? >> Well, >> since there's a degree of reexlanation from what was introduced in the introduction at that point, >> I suppose it could be anything. I'm just saying I'd like him to pick a good movie with a bad example and a bad movie with a good example to make it a bit more dynamic. He'd be like, I'd be impressed with him. I'd be like, good for you. Especially if I agreed, which I don't know that I still I I'm not even sure about the I really think the acting is made way more the problem than the dialogue here. >> Well, okay, let's take let's take the dialogue at face value than to try to parse what he's saying. >> Human being talks. It also sucks because there's no attacking and defending. The boyfriend just absorbs the info. >> No. Yeah. Yeah. He's just accepting the answer to a question that he asks. >> Yeah. He asks the question she answers. That's [ __ ] He So this is what humans do. >> He attacked by asking the question. She defended by answering it. >> Is he supposed to go? There's trolls out there. >> What if he like aggressively pins her against the wall and then she gives the same dialogue? >> That would have been better. That would have been better. >> Doesn't ask for more information. He doesn't any details. He just absorbs. >> But he got all the details. >> Yeah. What more do you need? He's asking for the scene to take longer because the boyfriend has to interject dialogue of like, "No, no, go on. Tell me more. >> Tell me more." Would you like to know more? >> Would it like would the counter be would it be okay if he's just like, "Yeah, that sounds fun. Is that enough or like does he have >> He needs to accuse her of lying." Okay. >> Yes. Yes. It's weird because the reciprocation makes the scene worse because it would make it take longer. >> Yeah. And then we get even more exposition. >> Then you call it bloated. >> Yeah. >> And more terrible writing acting rather. So >> another problem here is that there's no subtext here. She's just dumping information. She's not hiding anything. And I feel like >> Are you sure about that? >> Yeah. >> Why should she be hiding? So I mean I don't know the movie. Should she be hiding something? That brings in the question of like is it always better to have subtext or another meaning in it or is it is there times to have appropriate like just a blank sort of like a character says a thing they don't mean to mean anything else? >> His example is weird. It like >> showed him something to what? >> Yeah. Not everything needs subtext. Like >> I'm I'm trying to think of like what would be an example of something that she would hide. I don't know. Like the her history of like one time when we went on this trip my uncle molested me. Like what the [ __ ] is the subtext [clears throat] that you could add to the scene? >> That subtext was there the whole time. hiding something because this whole trip is kind of weird. I mean, there's the whole family exchange. I feel like a teenager embarrassed by that. She should be holding back about it. Now, for a good examping in her room, just hanging around and it's like, "Hey, we're going to go on the trip." It's like, "Oh, where are we going?" >> Yeah, we going here. All right, cool. It's natural to me because it's like it's that's just when if you're sold on a trip and but you didn't plan it, you're just going to repeat the sales pitch that you agreed to to anybody who asks you for details about it. >> Mhm. >> That's like the natural way that you would explain what the [ __ ] you're doing. >> Dialogue between honest characters never be good dialogue because they don't hide anything from each other. [laughter] >> Yeah. And and they're not confrontational where they view conversations as an attack defend uh situation. They just like each other and they say what they mean. That's bad dialogue. >> Let's take a look at the Steepford wives. And this is a movie about a family that moves from New York City to the mysterious town of Steepford. And shortly after moving into their new house, the wife and husband have a conversation about their recent move. We get an info dump here, but pay attention to how the writers deliver that info in a tense, interesting way. >> What do you suppose the people are like here? >> Friendly. That was a good casserole she cooked. Why did we move? We both agreed it was >> really almost. >> Not only that, but she's asking why did we move after they've moved? Okay. >> Yeah. >> How are the people here friendly? >> Are we sure this defeats troll 2? Can we be sure? [laughter] >> I don't know. I'm not convinced yet. best for the kids and uh what's best for you. >> Like Matt, she did he not say any of this before? I don't know. >> This feels more as you know than the last. >> Yeah, we went over this. The best decision for you, for the kids, and for everything. Like, wow. >> The boyfriend was actually learning information. >> Yeah, he didn't know. >> They're not talking about this before they sign the mortgage. Like >> it's not like a universal rule, but it's a fairly accurate rule is that if a charact if a character asks a question and the interlocator says, well, we discussed this and then proceeds to relate everything they've already discussed, then it's kind of by definition, as you know. You can still you can still make it work, but it's not particularly artful. >> You'd want the other person to acknowledge that like like a frustration with the fact that they have to keep reexplaining it or something like that. I'd be more interesting to see like would he say like the architect speech in the Matrix Reloaded is an example of good info dumping >> of the ones. >> It's a cool voice and he says words heard of before. >> It's a huge Yeah, huge info dump. It uses some fancy words, but there is some stuff going on underneath it cuz he said like info dumps are lazy, >> but I wouldn't call that a lazy scene. >> I mean, there's quite a lot going on with it and it's quite intricately written. the character has a reason to speak the way he speaks. >> He would answer that there's an attack defend element to that scene between Neo and the architect and he would say that there's subtext to the information that the architect is choosing to give and what's being left out. I think that would be his explanation for why that's okay. >> Maybe. Yeah. What do you know writer Brandon McNelte all of a sudden? You know what he'd say? H >> Mhm. >> That's what I thought. >> I am writer Brandon McN. >> Oh my god. >> Oh my god. We have we have a celebrity on the stream. >> And uh what's best for you, you know? I mean, you got more space here. You make yourself a dark room. It was time to move. You know, we got a terrific deal on this house. >> Just going to pause just to be safe. You never know what's going to happen. >> Of him trying to convince her like he can said she's regretting it. >> Yeah. >> But um but yeah, that's not that's not that doesn't count as as you know. That's like trying to convince her. There should be a third party in this scene who's like asking, "Hey, why did you move?" Oh, okay. I was going to say, "Why did you move here?" And then she's unsure and he gives like the sales pitch answer. >> So, this works because it sounds like an authentic husband wife conversation. It's a lowkey argument. >> And it also >> the beginning about the casserole. That was weird. M >> says the info comes out naturally >> I don't know that it does >> sort of >> I feel like I need to know them. >> I am lukewarm on these claims. I'm like >> well I don't know the context of these two characters. I like how he gave an he gave an explanation [clears throat] for Breaking Bad that a lot of people know. I don't even know what the movie is about he's talking about right now and he's like yeah this is like this this like I don't know these characters. I don't know. Well, is this a form of bragging? >> Bragging? >> Well, to say like look at all these references I can make that I'm not even going to explain the context of. >> No, he assume he assumes we're all very well dieted on media and thus we would understand. But simultaneously, we don't understand why they work. >> French media festival where wasn't it say blacking [laughter] and defending one another. The wife attacks their decision to move and then the husband has to defend it. And there's subtext here as well. And the subtext is that there's marital tension. He wanted to move here but she didn't. Third type of >> I I disagree. She's not attacking his decision. She's attacking her own apprehension about agreeing. >> She even said, "Why did we move here?" She's making herself a guilty party and like the decision. She's not blaming him at all. >> There's some unrest, but it's not directed at him at all. >> And that's why he's not like super confrontational about it. He's treating her with decent respect in regards. >> Writer Brandon McNelte continues to >> disappoint. Disappoint. Yeah, he does. >> Bad dialogue. >> This next one's going to fall immediately cuz what if the character is cartoonishly evil? >> Well, he's just going to start with this is super important here. >> Cartoonishly evil dialogue. >> This is when villains say cheesy things or they discuss over-the-top plans or they even label themselves as >> Okay, but what if that would be appropriate for the character? Goodbye James or Dr. Evil. >> Mhm. >> Or how about that guy in in the in the Puss and Boots movie >> or even Jack >> Horn Jack? >> Yeah, >> that guy was so [ __ ] >> No, he's apparently bad so long. >> Idiot. >> I would even say something like you have something like the Venture Brothers where it's a it is a serious narrative and then there's characters within the narrative who view themselves as cartoonishly evil because of the framework of the of the setting. If every one of your writing rules can be undermined by pointing to comedy, I just don't think these are very good writing rules. >> Fair. >> You're going to love >> brainless or unrealistic. >> What if the villain is shallow, is brainless, and is not realistic cuz he's in like an abstract world? >> Why are you doing this to me, Brandon? >> Hyper, you know, exaggerated. >> And this type of dialogue sounds unnatural. [laughter] oftentimes it lacks subtext because you have these villains who are just >> okay the a villain lacking subtext is totally [ __ ] fine especially anyone to lack subtext >> if you like subtext so much why don't you marry it >> defend against that [laughter] >> writer Brandon McNelte >> they're they're all about destroying the world and there's no real deeper meaning there for a bad example of this let's take a look at Batman >> oh dick Hey you [laughter] on dangerous ground here now. >> And this is the one where Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy team up in order to battle George Clooney. And this movie is full of memorable lines, a lot of funny moments in this movie, but I want to focus on the scene where Poison Ivy convinces Mr. Freeze that his wife is dead and that he should destroy the world. >> I'm actually I'm I've got the boxing gloves on. Let's do this. Brandon McNe, >> I cannot believe it, but uh >> let's go. Let's see if you can actually >> tolerate slander of our child. >> Listen, Batman Robin gets gets all of the hate in the world. So, you got to be accurate when you come at the king. >> And I'll play bits of this scene for you right now. >> Where's [music] my wife? >> There was nothing I could do. >> This is iconic already. [laughter] >> I love her outfit. It's amazing. was so [laughter] >> her hair and just like the lime green cut out a piece of green screen and just wrapped it around him. [laughter] >> We can accuse you of nitpicking things to death, but if you look at that character and say, "You know what? She really needs more subtext." I think [laughter] you've probably missed the point. >> The blood will freeze in my hands. >> Yes, Anie. Yes, it will. It will freeze in your hands. >> Don't pause so much. I can't hear what they're saying. Why should only Batman and Robin die? >> If I must suffer. >> Got to be careful, though. >> He's like cutting around the scene, too. It's like, it's not very honest. >> He had copyright issues, too. >> Surely, there's many examples of him being able to >> Humanity will suffer with me. >> Say it. Say the line. >> Humanity will suffer with me. >> Everything dead on Earth except us. >> Just pausing for safety. You know how it goes. A chance for >> mother nature to start again. >> Thurman by the way. [laughter] >> Where's the bad dialogue? >> I love that movie. >> Will be >> the only two people left. >> Does he does he view this as a comedy or does he view this as a as a drama with comedic elements? >> I have no performance. >> I don't know what we're going to get from this. This is going to be crazy. >> Yes. [clears throat] Adam and Evil >> and evil. >> This is such a good [laughter] [ __ ] off unrealistic dialogue. >> Oh, what do you mean unrealistic? Like they're supposed to be realistic now? What does it even mean? >> Comic book villains. >> The the the movie with the Batman credit card is cheesy and unrealistic. He he fell in a vat of ice liquid and she fell in a vat of plants [laughter] >> when when he established his rules at the very beginning he was very careful to include and like must be appropriate things like tone and now he's like ah but you know this is campy therefore it's bad. Yeah, >> silly. >> Damn it, Brandon. >> You have this ridiculous over-the-top plan to end the world. >> Oh, what? >> Yeah, that's >> Nobody has ever had fun. >> He wants to get rid of humanity entirely to let plants dominate and he wants revenge against humanity for the suffering that his wife ended up dying and him being attacked and [ __ ] >> That's the mot. >> Well, that is that's ending the world is the plan to to facilitate those motivations. And it's not even just to destroy everything for everyone. It's to start over. >> It's not. Yeah. It wouldn't be a ridiculous plan if there's reasons for them both wanting to do it. >> I'm still thinking that it's he means the means of the plan, not the the goal, the motivation for the plan or the desire to do it. >> I I actually kind of agree. The only problem is I don't think he included that in that scene. The actual plan is to fire a giant ice laser at mirrors and freeze the whole planet. It's insane. But >> [laughter] >> again >> appropriate for the story because it's supposed to be. >> Yeah, I didn't realize we were talking about that, but like even then super villain [ __ ] right? Again, I I don't know. It's uh and it does work. Batman stops him though working for a little bit there. >> Listen, I'm going to disagree, but I'm trying to dive into the mind of writer Brandon McNelte here and understand him on a deeper level. >> Are you disagreeing with with him or with with me that this plan makes complete sense? The giant ice guy? I would say I I'm just playing devil's advocate in some respect. >> Yeah. >> You have these silly jokes like mother nature. >> Bro, >> I mean like I I really think he picked Batman and Robin because he thought it would be an easy target. >> This isn't fair. Like he's ping throughout the whole movie. It's very consistent with his character and then the tone of the movie. This this matches writer Brandon McNelie's rules. >> We're not allowed to have silly jokes in movies ever. >> No, apparently. >> Is that evil? a a guy with a ice motif that's in like a giant costume would never be uh comedically evil. >> And one thing I want to point out here is that with villains, villains should never see themselves as evil. >> Why not? >> Why? >> Well, first of all, he sees himself as Adam in this scenario. [laughter] >> This is a very weird thing. I' I've like a villain who is self-aware that what they're doing is evil, but they can't control their nature. I've seen that like all over the place and it's a very interesting um dynamic to explore. >> I feel like you've really got to say why on this one. >> Actually, a lot of in in real life a lot of people who commit things like mass murder, if you look at their writings, they thought they were doing something like they thought they were doing the work of the devil essentially. Like this is not actually super uncommon that someone could believe that they're doing something evil because that's like what that's like the forces that they're aligned with. This is not actually psychologically uncommon. >> Well, what about like Mr. Blonde in Reservoir Dogs? Like, did did he think he was a good guy while he was chopping off the cops ear? >> I feel like he knew he was doing evil [ __ ] [laughter] >> He was socioeconomically disadvantaged. >> Knew he was doing or just didn't care, right? Like that's the other one. >> This is just This is just pulled out of his ass. That's all I think. >> This is the heroes of their own. >> Hang on. So, wouldn't um sorry, this was his bad example. I was going to say, wouldn't Kylo Ren see himself as evil since he's playing he's he's playing up his character? >> Yeah, he's being torn apart until um The Last Jedi apparently. >> I don't really know that he knows that he's evil. I don't think he knows what anything is cuz nobody in that movie does either. >> Okay. What about Jack Horner? >> Evil and proud of it. He does seem somewhat okay with it. I'd [laughter] say >> he is okay with it. Yeah. >> What took you so long? >> It's very funny. >> Again, how many characters have said something along the lines of, "I'm a necessary evil." >> That's what uh isn't that what um that's what Bane said right before he snapped that dude's neck. >> Oh man. >> One last reason why this scene sucks is because Poison Ivy easily manipulates Freeze into going along with her plan. She attacks, but he doesn't really make much of an effort to defend. He >> doesn't plan. >> He's cool with the plan. Yeah. And And they sync up. If he freezes the world, her plans can take over when everyone's dead. That's the sink. >> Yeah. I mean, what what are we suggesting then? That like any dialogue where characters agree is like fundamentally broken. >> Yes. It needs to be >> you can't have his >> There's no cooperation. Every conversation that you've ever had with like a loved one needs to be in the framework of I am fighting you for information. You need to fight back. >> Weird [ __ ] negotiation. >> One moment he's all about getting revenge on Batman. Then she's like, "Oh yeah, we should just destroy the world." He's like, "Yeah, yeah, let's do it." Now for a good >> That'll piss Batman off. >> He's just not particularly invested in humanity at that point. He's losing it. And Batman's got to pull him back from the brink cuz Mr. Frieza is a nice man in his heart. Okay, saves him at the end. It's beautiful. >> Example, let's take a look at the Dark Knight. If you remember, in the second half of the movie, there's the hospital scene where Joker corrupts Harvey Dent and encourages him to become a criminal. Pay it. >> So, this is an example of like super villain dialogue, but that it works, right? Cartoonishly evil, but it works. I assume >> something to that effect. >> Attention to how Joker manipulates Harvey by attacking his identity and appealing to his obsession with fairness. When you and Rachel were being abducted. >> Why' you come out? >> Why'd you cut that out? That was great. [laughter] >> I was sitting in Gordon's cage. Your man, your plan. Do I really look like a guy with a plan? >> I mean, >> is that cartoonishly evil? >> What does a guy with a plan look like? >> But he also had load loads of plans in this movie. >> Meticulous plan. >> Plans that have loads of contingencies. >> Effective. You could actually argue him saying that is Ba'os. It's kind of funny that he's like, "Oh, come on. Do I have I'm more >> a lot of funny moments in this scene." >> The one people always pick on is that Jav doesn't recognize him until he takes off the mask when [laughter] >> Oh, yeah. Jav bro, what are you what cops have plans? It's the schemers that put you where you are. You were a schemer. You had plans. >> Just being safe. >> God, his performance is so good in this scene. Hell yeah. >> I mean, it's an axelone performance. >> And uh look where that got you. Introduce a little >> No, you did. You cut out. Stop cutting out every time that [ __ ] uh Harvey Dent tries to get him. [laughter] >> It's all attack. No defense. >> I'm an agent of chaos. Oh, and you know [snorts] the thing about chaos, >> it's fear. >> So this >> I I will say that's that's something that's worth noting, right? like you know the the villain sees themselves as the hero of their own story. That thing that's again it's just not like when Joker says he's an agent of chaos I know that in a certain sense you could say that chaos is maybe like neutral in terms of whether or not it's [laughter] good or bad but you know in the case of in the case of Joker like [laughter] you know what I mean >> trying to prove that people are evil deep down >> that everyone is scum >> and so he sees himself as evil too. He He's like, "You're all the same as me, and I'm just honest about it." >> First of all, it sounds natural. It sounds natural in terms of the character speaking it as well as the situation. >> I mean, come on. >> Oh, come on, man. It's it's it's natural in terms of the character and the situation. >> Okay, then. >> And defense, Joker uses his words to disarm Harvey before attacking Harvey's identity. But you you actually removed all of the uh the [laughter] parts we off like he uses his words to disarm Harvey before giving him a loaded gun [laughter] >> before literally arming him. Yeah. >> And appealing to his intelligence. >> What's his example of Harvey defending though? It just it just seems like the same thing of one villain convinces another villain to go along with their >> thing is he he left out because you could make the case that Harvey defends by kind of creating a different you know that the flipping of the coin is like trying to create some kind of order amidst the chaos that could be argued to be a defense but like he doesn't bring it up he didn't show it so I don't which feels weird when he's so attached to attack and defend I feel like you kind of need that if you want to make the point that this scene works from that perspective. >> Well, I mean, also as far as fitting the situation and the characters, if you took all of the Joker Harvey Dent dialogue and gave it to Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze, would that not seem like it doesn't fit? >> Well, surely it wouldn't. Yeah, cuz like natural I mean, what does that even mean? Does like is it natural to a campy world? You know, >> is it supposed to be that it's believable? >> So, by the way, does this mean that he thinks that like Aaron Sorcin is like inherently like shitty at writing? Because like his dialogue is not natural. Like that's not there's like a rhythm to it that is not normal. People don't people aren't as witty as like in an Aaron Sen screenplay. >> Well, the social network for instance, is that natural? Does that sound like the way that Mark Zuckerberg, you know, >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Like, you know, so like I know we're going >> beyond, you know, the specific examples here, but sounds natural as being like an essential element of dialogue is just like plainly absurd. >> I have heard that before of people saying like um instances where there's like fast [ __ ] talking between people sounds natural and it's like no, it's not. When you're in the moment, you're not like coming up with fast, quippy, like complicated subtextual insults. You know what natural dialogue is? Um, uh, oh, I lost my train of thought. >> That was Or you use the incorrect word and then you search for the right one. Like in the real world, people are not >> witty and precise with the way that they speak all the time. >> You want to like substitute the word natural for like naturalistic essentially like to not aiming to be natural, aiming to simulate a kind of naturality. I was I was going to ask, does he believe that this is natural because this is a quote unquote realistic take on the Joker? >> We will never know. >> Fetish for like how would Batman work in the real world? Does he just like did he f fall for that scup? >> Well, I think it's clear he prefers naturalism. Yeah. No, he he built his rule originally to accommodate things with more campy tones. He clearly doesn't actually like them. >> Well, does it feel like he just wanted to put Dark Knight against Batman and Robin as the best versus the worst Batman? >> Yeah, probably. >> Yeah, cuz it's an easy target >> and he just found whatever worked or whatever thought worked. >> Fairness. And a couple other things I want to throw out here with this scene. The characters don't label themselves as evil. Joker considers >> I mean that's not true. >> Yeah, I don't I don't think that's true. It's a semantic thing where chaos isn't necessarily evil. >> Yeah. But also Joker movie Joker is convinced that everyone is evil deep down. Not >> hate each other. >> And Harvey has just been convinced to be an agent of chaos through virtue of a coin flip where if it lands on the scratched up side, he kills you. So, >> right. So if writer Brandon McNelte was here, would he establish the rule that like the intention is within the information provided by the scene itself or are we allowed to invoke uh evidence from >> I mean we ought to be >> I'm just curious because it informs his perspective if he believes that >> within the scene is the relevant part. Joker within the scene doesn't view himself as evil versus like you know in other instances where he does But he's going to judge whether it sounds natural and whether it's in keeping with the character based on the rest of the movie. So I think it's perfectly valid to do the same thing. Th >> this would he should have it all in here like how to understand this but it's very limited >> himself this enlightened agent of chaos and Harvey simply wants what's fair what he believes is fair. Fourth type of bad dialogue is when you have a jarring change of subject. >> Well we just had a jarring change of subject. This is where you have a clumsy and noticeable shift in a conversation. Character tries to change the subject and instead of doing so in a smooth way, they draw attention to the dialogue. They >> Well, hey, look, sometimes that happens in the real world. So, >> do this all the time. >> It's naturalistic. >> Sometimes it happens on the show actually quite frequently. >> Well, I mean, you know, I've got a controller on my desk here and it's I don't know. It's It's one of the better ones. I think >> I like there is no circumstance in which a person walks in and does the no country for old men like how much have you lost in a coin toss and then kills you that that was not fair for you. If like if that person just walked into your life and decided to wager your life on a 50/50 game chance, >> it is not fair and it is evil. It's he's just trying to give himself that well it's up to the coin. Okay, I'm shooting you. I don't think Harvey sees himself still being a good guy here. Like >> I'm gonna impart the same injustice that was done to me on other people. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I thought that was you declaring I was like what the [laughter] go for it impart that injustice >> tries to change the subject and instead of doing so in a smooth way they draw attention to the dialogue. They break the reality. Like if we jump from >> break the reality of the story, >> maybe he means the very similitude of the story. >> I feel like the wording of that breaks the reality of the story is kind of like whoa, what did they say? >> Like the the laws of logic of the fictional universe, I don't think that's possible. >> And often times this happens because the scene is being rushed or the scene was poorly planned. For a bad example of this, let's take a look at the room. And this is >> Oh, [ __ ] off, man. Like, steal man your arguments at the very least. >> Of course, the tragic story of a guy named Johnny. He's caught in this unfortunate love triangle involving his girlfriend Lisa and his best friend Mark. And about midway through the story, Johnny is accused of hitting Lisa. He's torn up about this and he looks to vent his emotions on the roof of his apartment building, but that's >> So, this is how is your sex life, right? >> Oh my god. We're >> I did not hit her. >> Yeah. I did not Oh, hi Mark. >> Hi. [laughter] But um >> well, let's let's play it >> and I'll play the scene for you right now. >> I did not hit her. It's not true. It's [ __ ] I [laughter] did not hit her. >> That's such a good movie. >> I did not hit her. >> I did not. >> Oh, hi Mark. >> Oh, hey Johnny. What's up? >> I have a problem with Lisa. She said that I hit her. >> I love [laughter] how real the set is sitting here on the chairs. You know, these are just the chairs we sit at on the roof. >> Yeah. How much of his decision to pick this scene is influenced by performance this time? >> I never noticed. >> He's got those uh he's got those pants you could unzip and they become shorts and he's wearing with like a blazer and a black. What a bizarre. >> He's a stylish dude. >> He randomizes on the >> It's versatile. >> No, it's not true. Don't even ask. >> What's new with you? >> This sucks because you have clunky transitions from one subject to the next. >> This is amazing. What if Johnny is panicked and stressed out and he's he's panicking. He's moving from one subject to the next cuz he just doesn't want to let let him focus on the his failures. Okay. >> I swear it's just performance in the sense of like [laughter] what how he's reading the scene because >> I feel like if you just take the words at the face value, if you just read what's said, it doesn't seem as clunky with the way that the information is presented. He's very >> it's a serious accusation and he's like preemptively trying to defend himself because he doesn't want to >> take the burden of the social consequences of being seen as a abusing his wife. >> He also like he doesn't change the subject either. Like he's talking he's speaking to himself about how frustrating the situation is. Then he says, "Hi, Mark." Like he greets his friend. He's like, "Oh, you're here. How's it going?" And then tells Mark what he was just venting about. >> Yeah. We didn't even really get the >> performance makes it seem >> Yeah, performance seems like there is one. It seems like a sudden like departure because the ohigh mark just it's like but that's all performance >> emotionally reset. Yeah, it's close. >> And also I mean the very last thing he says is kind of a change in subject. He says what's new with you? Because he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. But that just seems perfectly in character actually. >> Mhm. >> At first John >> talking to himself about this serious private matter. Then he addresses Mark with this absurdly casual greeting. And then Johnny mentions these serious accusations before immediately burying the subject. >> Yeah. What he just describes surely can actually work anymore. >> Yeah. >> There's an unnatural progression here. And the flow, >> but like that's that would be that that's character. If it was unnatural in terms of the subjects changing, it's because someone doesn't want it to stay on a subject, moving it away, and they're not very good at it. There there can easily be times when you're going through something tough and you're kind of venting about it. Then someone says, "Hey man, you doing okay?" It's like, "Ah, now I just I got this stuff going on at work." Anyways, like you played the new I don't know, [ __ ] Halo. >> It's like >> you're not ready to talk about it at a social level. You're still at like the venting stage >> of information is backwards. Usually you have a mundane subject that works its way into a more important subject. But here you start with the important stuff. >> Not here. this guy just got accused of like beating his wife. Like, yeah, of course that's at the top of his [ __ ] mind. >> Like that >> almost in meteor we join him midway through him sort of ranting to himself about the serious subject which has just been you know revealed to him. >> Why are we defending the room from writer Brandon McNelte? >> Well, more more to the point. How is writer Brandon McN losing to the room? >> Like it's an inverse take a shot at the king, you better not miss. Like it's >> Yeah. [laughter] I don't really do use the room as your example of bad dialogue. You need to have that bad dialogue. >> You take a shot at the hobo somehow >> missed [laughter] like I'm starting to become morbidly curious about the quality of his writ of the books that he's written. You know >> he ever produced a masterpiece like the room? I don't think so. >> Exactly. All Batman and Robin >> buried along the way. Ideally, you would want Johnny and Mark attacking and defending one another until the important details spill out, but that's not what this is. Is still not writing. This is either performance or direction at this point. >> I just don't agree with his framework. Also, it's just a stupid way to determine what's good or bad. >> Weekend's upset. You don't come at the room like this in front of him. >> Arguably be him being a good friend to be like, "Okay, well, you know, if you want to talk about it, we can, but yeah, my day is going okay." If writer Brandon McNelte has ever written anything good, it's because he ignored his own rules. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> It ends up being unintentionally hilarious. Now, while you usually want to avoid a >> That's because it's unintentionally hilarious. [laughter] >> That's a weird thing to say. I I love unintentionally hilarious things. >> It's like one of the most beloved movies ever. >> He wants to talk about objective quality and things, which I don't think he meant. >> I don't think writer Brandon McNel is going there. He's just >> I don't think he's that based in red. >> He's being unintentionally hilarious. >> This is a strange rule and I keep going back to this. This is the only rule in which outside elements that are not writing are able to be invoked in which like cuz he says as part of the rule, this can happen as a consequence of the production being like poorly planned or rushed. And it's like so that's not writing at that point. That's the way that the scene was constructed after it left the writer room in subject. Sometimes it can be used strategically for shock value or humor. And for a good example of this, let's look at an early episode of Seinfeld. This is the one where Jerry and his friend Elaine agree to sleep together as part of a friends with benefits deal. And the next day, Jerry wants to discuss this at the coffee shop, but he's hesitant to bring it up in conversation with George. Here's their exchange. >> So, how's the job situation going? >> Still looking pretty bad out there. What about you? >> Nothing much. I slept with a lion last night. [laughter] >> This change of subject works because it's deliberately jarring. It's strategically written for >> but >> Whoa. >> No, he's destroyed his whole video now. It's strategically written for comedy. I thought but >> Batman [laughter] and Robin though. >> Well, it is funny because Yeah. ing change of subject is the topic and because it's deliberately jarring that's what makes it good >> Brandon >> but hang on what if the force awakens was trying to be deliberately okay so this is why he didn't pick Last Jedi as an examp [clears throat] >> comedic effect here you have uncomfortable small talk that builds toward a punchline and this is not like in the room example where Johnny just mentioned the accusations right up front and then he tries to bury them. No, in the >> sign what happened in the scene. >> That's what happens in the scene is the lack of buildup to what he says. >> There's a fundamental difference. One of these is this guy slept with his friend and the other one is this guy is accused of beating his wife. Like I I think I understand why the information [laughter] is presented differently in character [snorts] >> toward the punchline and there's attacking. >> Oh, not the attack and def [ __ ] again. >> Him by asking him how the job hunt's going. >> Yeah, that's an attack. >> Trying to belittle him. >> Bringing up the topic. >> Jerry drops his bombshell. And the fifth type of bad dialogue is rushed. All right, final one. You can surely get the point on this one. >> Actions. And this is dialogue that makes an unrealistic jump from one emotion to another. >> Okay. >> Often times you'll have missing beats within a conversation. And these missing beats will lead to responses that aren't natural or appropriate. >> Isn't this just again? >> Um I was about to say which have we done this one? But [laughter] >> we've done this. We've done this twice now. >> Yeah. >> Problem here is that strong emotions need more time to develop. Oh, do they? >> Oh, >> what if what if they're really strong and what if they boom, what if they come out? What if they're seething under the surface and then boom, you know? >> Or what if the sudden emotional turn was made for sudden comedic effect like the good example that he said earlier. So, >> doesn't doesn't remember Kylo, he's like, and then he goes and you know that's >> that's does that I don't know if he likes TFA or not. Maybe he hates the whole thing to be fair, >> but sometimes writers will just try to force them in there. for a bad example of this. Let's take a look at The Last Jedi. >> Okay. All right. Now you've got Yeah, we're on your side with this one. Okay. [laughter] >> Let's go. >> You're not going to Okay, chat. They're not going to catch us defending TLJ. That's not happening. >> That would be bad. Like going for an easy target's fine cuz he needs he needs that. He needs that dub really badly. W >> King this time >> in the eighth year. We're we're not [laughter] going to it's not going to happen. There's a scene powering up a can in an attempt to destroy the resistance and that's when Finn decides to fly his speeder into the cannon. >> I hate this scene so [ __ ] much of protecting his friends. But then he gets foiled when Rose crashes into him and >> where did she come from? >> How [laughter] did she do that? It's not possible. She was behind him. Then she got in front of a strange relationship with like um >> physics and momentum. Uh, >> I thought this relation >> with Star Wars also [laughter] >> weird relationship with Star Wars. >> Finn chases down Rose and they have the following exchange. >> Does that count as chasing her down when she's crashed? >> She's not moving. >> Yeah, you chase [laughter] down a stationary boss. >> Counter chase does kind of imply they're both moving. I think I don't know. >> Writer Brandon McNolley, which is what if this scene was intended to be funny because it is. >> It is funny. >> Huh? I was almost there. >> Why would you stop me? >> You can't mess this up. >> Spurs. >> Come on, Brandon. You can't mess this up. >> He's got this. He's He's over the bullseye. He's about to fire. He's got this one. >> Tell me that's how we're going to win. You wouldn't fail me on this. >> You get this right, >> Brandon. [laughter] >> Immensely confident you'll nail this. >> This sucks because of Rose's reaction. Finn actually responds appropriately here. He's angry. He's in a state of disbelief. He's trying to get answers out of her, but Rose speaks like they're on a picnic instead of a battlefield. >> She is about to like faint, so >> Oh god, no. No. [laughter] I hate to say it, but I hate to say it, but there's a reason why she sounds a bit >> She also just saved his life. She nearly gave her life to save his. She's in love with him. Her reaction is justified by the character. >> No, >> she's saying it. Yeah, >> that's not the problem with this scene. Rya, Brandon McNelte, >> and considering the situation, considering they were just in a huge crash, there's this high stakes battle. Considering all that, Rose's words should be raw and frantic. >> No, no, that's she's she's trying to like a little >> delirious. >> She's doing her [ __ ] >> She's talking about why it's meaningful. She made her choice. >> Yeah, she's talking about why she saved him and why he needs to learn from her decision to do that for him. >> The Last Jedi is too much for writer Brandon McNelte to understand. >> Oh, certified you blew it moment, [laughter] >> dude. that tries to explain herself, but what we actually get in the movie, it's just it's forced poetry. It's >> lighthearted >> forced poetry. >> Oh my god. No. It's like sort of an epithet. That's her philosophy. >> But like, yeah, she believes in this and she thinks that she's fainting. She saved his life. >> Poetry. >> She's honoring her. A rose is a rose is a rose. I'll go with him up to the point of saying in her condition and in those circumstances, she should not be speaking as I was going to say perfectly. That's not the word I'm looking for. >> Well, she's like as she is >> lucid. Lucid. >> Yeah. But but like if you've just been in a massive traffic collision um and inadvertently got all of your friends killed and you wake up in your [clears throat] ship and this guy's run over to you and you say, "Oh, this is how we win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love." is that that's too I'm going to use the word perfect again. It's too complete. It's too neat. >> A hallmark moment. >> Yeah, >> he's just had that line banked like pretty much since Kanto bite >> to be clear that that's not what he's said. He said her word should be raw and frantic. I don't even know that. >> I was going for the no time for poetry bit that he's got. >> Yeah, but that's like broad as hell. If she You're saying that she's too well spoken in that poetry, right? Not that it's not time for poetry on her end. >> I mean, it's probably not time for poetry generally, but >> I I don't know if I agree with that. I can't believe I'm saying this about TLJ. She she she thinks it's like possibly over for her and she just did a big old sacrifice for the person she loves, whatever reason that is. And then >> I would invoke her sister in this. She lost her sister earlier in the movie. She's stewing over that loss over the course of the entire story. And then like this is her writing out that >> in a moment where like she's she is honoring the sacrifice that her >> YouTuber Patrician TV is right. >> There is there is a connection to the sister. She would be thinking about it. She just made a big old sacrifice. She's trying to teach him a lesson before she fades away. Like I don't I don't know. I don't think that any of this is really that good as criticism. Mr. McNelte >> poetic might be a bit strong but it does sound like a written line. It sounds like something she thought about. She might have though and like wanted to tell her because there's scenes where she's like over her sister's death. She's like staring at her necklace like at at the loss that she >> she's been plotting her cosmic betrayal since they [laughter] landed on. >> Oh [snorts] man, this I just I'm so surprised. >> It would be more appropriate to have something like this once they got to safety and once things calm down. >> She doesn't even know that she'll be able to get to safety at this point. This is the moment she thinks she's like reasonably. You're staring at the cockpit. There's 15 tanks in front of you. >> They should die. Actually, that's another criticism. >> Yeah. >> I mean, after this moment, she's essentially booted from the franchise. >> Yes. Thankfully, >> but right here and right now, it just doesn't ring true. And it's a case of when the writer prioritizes the message over [laughter] the moment. Now, for a good example, >> that part is accurate. [laughter] >> There you go. There you go. He pulled it off at the end. >> That part at the end is like, "Yeah, >> he was he was scraping on the bottom a little bit, but >> you got like one out of five out of one out of five." So that's >> Does that count if he didn't give us the right context? Cuz of course it's hilarious. The reason that that scene is so [ __ ] [ __ ] is everything she says stand in direct opposition to the event that's happening in the background. It's like all of your loved ones are getting [ __ ] lasered and she's like, "We have to protect the ones we love." [laughter] by flying flames into them. >> So, I feel like that's not what writer Brad McNelte was even talking about. >> Yeah. It's more the problem with the message rather than like when it like you know like it's not that cuz I he seems to think that if they waited to have this conversation until they got to safety then it would be fine. But still what she did and what she said is still a problem. Yeah. >> Especially like ones that was that ones I hate that I was fighting are about to shoot a WMD at all of our friends. >> Yeah. I feel like giving her time to reflect on the consequences of her sacrifice, she would be like, "Oh god, I was [ __ ] wrong." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So like that is the moment for her to say that. >> Just from a writing perspective, this scene [ __ ] fails cuz Rose contradicted her sister's sacrifice. It's just so [ __ ] stupid. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like she she died for the people she loved and now that the person she loves is doing the same thing. No. Yeah. It's still stupid. >> Yeah. It it it would be funny, but it it is like in the context like no one knows what >> that was a [ __ ] slam dunk >> happened on there. >> Page Tico was just fighting what she hate. She left Rose alone. A [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Situation in Top Gun Maverick. Toward the end, there's a battle where Maverick's group runs into all sorts of trouble. And at one point, Rooster, who's like a son to Maverick, Rooster gets targeted by a rocket. And Maverick sacrifices himself so Rooster can escape. But instead of escaping, Rooster hangs around and sacrifices himself to protect Maverick. >> I will say, by the way, this is like where it starts to transition into the uh the weakest part of this film. It is incredibly convenient. >> Like he just narrowly like if he was a split second later like Mav would be dead dead and there's a lot of that over the course of this remaining part unfortunately. >> Like up to this point it's pretty solid but uh yeah the last like 20 minutes of the film it uh it gets a bit rough there when it comes to the uh the plot. >> It has some turbulence. Maverick locates. >> Yeah. >> And the two men have this exchange. >> What are you doing here? What am I doing here? >> I took that missile. So you can be down here with me. You should be back on the carrier by your life. >> Saved your life. >> You should be very careful with this cuz this is Paramount. >> I will put the cover up. Yeah. >> What the hell were you even thinking? Yeah. Yeah. What were you thinking? >> You told me not to think. >> Well, [sighs] it's good to see you. >> It's good to see you, too. >> All right. >> [ __ ] cold. >> Yeah, man. >> So, what's the plan? >> This dialogue works because the reactions are believable. Maverick is angry and he provokes Rooers's anger as well. The two of them argue back and forth and defends for attacking and defending normally and this one is just like so over it feels pointless even mentioning it like it's a >> there's also attacking and defending in the last scene. >> Then there's a silent beat of >> you know that's actually a really good point. There is there is like direct attacking and defending in the uh in the Finn Rose Tico scene. like why would you do that? I saved you is like a very clean way. There is an iconic silence in that scene with both [laughter] shut and the resistance get blown to hell. So [clears throat] >> for them to collect themselves and after that they accept their new situation. >> We moved on from TLJ and he's still losing. >> They make peace with one another and they plan on what to do next. >> Well, I mean Rose and Finn made peace >> and they made a plan. And they got they got out of that. Well, I guess I guess hey mag and >> even though they should have been blown away, but that's fine. >> Very simply, this emotional exchange works because it's real. It develops and it's earned. >> It works because it's real. It develops and it's earned. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you so much. >> And I'm curious what you think. Are there any >> no >> man? [laughter] Let me know in the comment section down below. >> Examples of bad dialogue that you can think of that fit into the five categories I mentioned today. >> That sounds like a lot of work. >> Let us know in the comments section below. Thank you guys for watching. If you want to support the channel, please pick up a copy of my books and be sure to leave parts and entry. >> Entry entry >> wound [laughter] entry wounds. That's what entry wounds. It's the novel by Brandon McNelte. >> Having an exit wound is either better or worse depending on where you're hit. >> [snorts] >> I don't want to have >> I want an extra >> Oh, he's got the writer's guide to weapons up there. Oh, >> yeah. >> He's got Star Wars book, Zelda book. >> Zelda >> character traits. >> Break into screen writing. >> Wonder how much effort goes into curating shelves like this. >> The art of dramatic writing. Hell yes. The writer's journey. >> That sounds exciting. skeleton crew >> character. >> It's kind of weird. He focused on writing scenes in the film format and not on he didn't like branch out like here's a here's an example from some comics. Here's an example >> from one of my books. >> Yeah, >> that would be fun. >> Well, if he was very if he was really cool, he could be like, "This is one of my early books and I found a bad example and here is a good good example from one of my newer books because I wrote it as a person." So he gives them both and you know >> if he's a literary writer he would be more familiar with the shortcomings in the literary format. I don't think he's equipped to handle the situations where a director might change the meaning of a scene with the way that they direct it after it was written >> or actors performing it, which we noticed a couple points made a couple examples here weakened his points just because it's mostly performance that he's talking about, not not actual writing. >> Same thing came up last time we covered him when he talked about the I hate sand scene. >> Oh, yes, I remember. I remember. >> I also remember that it's time for us to say goodbye to writer Brandon McNalty until next year. >> Goodbye. >> Goodbye writer Brand better luck. >> We hardly knew you. Well, I guess we know him pretty well at this point. >> Good writer is unfortunately the big part of what I know about. >> You'll nail it next. You'll nail it next year, man. >> Round four. I'm feeling round four. >> It's always the fourth round that like, you know, that's the one that gets you. The fourth what? >> Round. >> Oh, round is okay. Okay. >> Oh, wound. I don't know. Wound. >> Runed. >> Fourth. >> Wow. Fourth round. [laughter] >> It's the worst one. >> Just setting up the old Batoman. [laughter] >> I'm very excited >> cuz yes, we are locking in. That'll be the finale. How come he didn't use an example from Batoman? >> He should do an entire special on Batoman. Just every every single example he gives should be Batoman. I think see how it works. >> I'm inclined to agree. >> Traitorous behavior, but there's not more Batoman. >> But yes, that does wrap up part two of this anniversary. >> One more part to go. >> We shall be back with part three. A few few announcements, few surprises, plenty more to go, >> but let me change customization redirection. >> It is crazy to be like, yeah, what's the time? Yeah, it's like really really really late or alternatively very early. I was like, how much longer? A few hours. Still a few hours. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we made good progress, you We've we've got our we we've been doing good. We've been stimulating our brain space. >> Yeah. Today I have >> I learned that you should have attacking and defending when you talk to people. I I never knew that. So >> you every conversation has a confrontation. >> Yeah, exactly. >> An aggressive conf. >> No, it's not two hours, guys. It's more than that because it's the Batoman breaks. That >> doesn't count. >> That doesn't count. So, it's longer than you think. anything. >> Yeah, that's right. That's that's the that's the song. >> Come on now. >> An eventful uh race, by the way. Um, pretty crazy. >> They what what race? The >> F1. >> Yeah. >> I thought Okay. Okay. >> That's it was a different race. >> What you mean? the white race or the is that he said F1 of course he means >> racing of [laughter] going around the going around the circuit it was unfortunate Max Pappen crashed out and it's his home race and it's the last one that they're doing for >> well he crashed so >> unfortunate was no absolutely not okay why did I even bring this up why [laughter] >> well sorry for showing interest in one of your hobbies. >> You're just angry at writer Braden. You take it out on us. >> Yeah, >> but you know Fernando Alonzo got points which is pretty crazy that he managed to get points. That's cool. >> He not expected to. >> Well, it's just Aston Martin's been not good this year and that's not good at all. Very, very, very, very bad. stocks this year are down really low. >> Do you know that meme with Max Versappen where babe my parents are here my parents will leave in 5 minutes and and then the image of Max Versappen and who Max Versappen there's a song that plays. Do you know that meme? >> Do you mean the D that one or >> I think so. Yeah. This is his meme of >> Yeah. So I think that's his meme. Yeah, I saw it. >> Copyright [clears throat] to him. >> He's a very entertaining character. He's a very entertaining personality. >> Yeah, I think Mr. Yoga got it max. And yeah, I think it's that song. >> Probably he's been doing this for a while. He probably doesn't have a lot of years in him anymore, right? >> Uh he's like only like 28, so he could go for a lot longer. >> I was thinking of someone else then. >> Or are you talking about Alonzo? Because he's like 46 years old. >> That's the one I was thinking. Yeah. >> Yeah. He's probably >> He was driving when I when I was [ __ ] watching that [ __ ] with my dad as a kid. >> Yeah. No, he's he's been uh he's he's done over 400 uh Grand Prix. So, yeah, he's been doing it for nearly 30 years. Like actually nearly 30 years. >> Not a meme. >> Grand Pricks, I think. Actually, that's Grand Pricks. >> That's how you pronounce it. Yeah. >> Why is Are you all good? Are you Are you fine on what? >> Not starting. It should be starting. Come on, YouTube. >> Okay. Okay. Well, that >> refresh >> right there. >> If people don't get to see the episode, I'll be I'll be I'll be devastated. >> I am furious. >> Make the annoying noises. Do it. >> Do it. >> Oh, Jojo's all over the annoying noises. >> Wait, is this started less than a minute ago? Not on my [ __ ] end. It hasn't. What is this lying? >> Maybe it's the countdown or No, no, that's >> Or would it? I don't know. >> Holy [ __ ] I'm sorry, but I got hit with that as well, chat. I'm I'm so sorry. >> Countdown music. >> [ __ ] music just blew my head off. >> And that's what you need to hear at this point when we've been for like 22 hours, you know. Wake up. >> Wake up. >> All right. Well, >> how is YouTube not addressing? >> I guess we needed that. Anyway, I'm going to send you over now into this. Enjoy the final episode of season 2 of Batoman. We'll be back after it wraps up for round three and the end of this anniversary. Thank you so much everybody. >> See you. >> Byebye. Byebye. >> Byebye.