EFAP #398 - Halo: Campaign Evolved - Indulgence of Conviction

You can just turn it off. Yeah, but okay. But why are they on by default? This is what the developers have chosen. >> There are intentional quest markers. >> Like in the mod, there's a quest marker in Halo CE. And if you turn them all off, you no longer get that, too. >> If you just turn everything off, >> I find it funny. If you turn off the features that they put on by default because they the video game developers who ought to know better than you, just the player, they you know they they have not even suggested they they have made it so that this is the way that the game works unless you go and change it. So I don't know why wouldn't I trust their their their judgment? It's not like they're 343 Industries. It did confuse me right at the start of the game like in the menu when you boot it up for the first time that it it's going through you know graphical settings and everything making sure that you know if you're like color blind or whatever and text to speech was on by default. I've not had that before in a game Microsoft staple in the outer worlds too. >> It was really >> Microsoft mic. It was like from 25 years ago like text to speech from >> and what's frustrating about it is that Windows has a feature for that called Windows narrate and the main thing is game developers need to actually utilize it for it to function. They have chosen instead of utilizing the existing Windows narrate feature to implement their own text to speech and then force it on everybody else. And it's patently for look how virtuous we are that we have included accessibility for hard of sight people uh who >> I thought it was for people who could not read. >> You're you're of that mind and you know what you might not be wrong. Um but the community manager said it was for blind people. Well, I was going to say, yeah, because it it it must be for blind people and who mistakenly boot the game up or something because then it's like, you know, >> which is like how did they thought they were buying the original, but actually it's campaign right game. >> If you're partially cighted, like I'm not exactly sure how playing video games works, but like even if you're partially sighted and you're going to try and play a first person shooter, like I don't quite know how that's going to work. But also like opening the game with like here adjust these tiny minute graphics settings that you know are is that person really going to be able to tell the difference? >> How does it play? >> That's logic. >> Like like >> well the logic is you have difficulty reading like small menu text and that's what it's for. >> It's not for like an actual like blind blind person who like can barely you know it's just smears on their screen for them. At this point across multiple games, it does come across as this cringe dick measuring contest about like how many how much you know disability we can cater to >> like a default hearing [ __ ] Microsoft mic. It's like >> and they have better text to speech >> work and effort into trying on the main menu to get you to experience the grandeur of Halo and all of that is instantly ruined by >> Welcome to food involved. Don't they literally have a Cortana voice that they've used on the Xbox before as like a, you know, Siri or Alexa smart assistant? Why Why not just use that? >> I don't know. And I also I do enjoy this when you bear in mind that the menu stutters at least on PlayStation 5. So that's great. >> Like at least we >> bought the performance version under the expectation that there would be less or no problems with performance. That was a mist that I was wrong. I was very wrong. >> I got performance issues in the sense of the game kind of ran like dog [ __ ] considering that you know the machine I have and how it looked like it the game doesn't look bad but I have a lot of games that look >> better than that that run much better. I have Unreal I mean Arc Raiders looks quite good and it runs it easily much more than that game does. >> Do you know what the text to speech reminded me of? It reminded me of a certain Master Chief action figure. missed opportunity to throw Microsoft Sam in there, saying a few slurs at the beginning. >> Wait, did they not email you? Did Halos videos email you about royalty? >> Shockingly, no. >> It did make me think of Obby the Chief though. The second that happened, I was like, wait, what the [ __ ] >> It was funny. >> Like, it it it made me think of that so much that at first I was like, is that the point now? >> Is this a reference? >> Nice. This is a bizarre reference right out of the gate for the >> Yeah, right out of the gate. >> This game, you know. Hey, I mean, what what a great first impression though, right? For for a game that has very much been marketed as potentially someone's first Halo game, especially on PlayStation. >> You are the [ __ ] for pointing it out >> for pointing out for complaining aboutility options. You hate blind people, you [ __ ] talked to him about this before. Well, but uh he really feels strongly about it, you know. >> I think uh The Last of Us 2 got like an award for accessibility. And I remember when I was playing that game, when you check the options for accessibility, it is [ __ ] insane. And like in a sense of wow, you guys put in so much work to make sure every person could ever play this game. everything you could change like it's bordering on accessibility is bordering on to like >> options >> an actual game editor like like like completely with with how much effort they put in now where you can change everything down to exactly how enemies work and where they're placed, how they're spawned and what weapons what your [ __ ] does. You know what I mean? Like you can you change everything. >> That feels like it goes beyond accessibility in the sense that people can just like control the game experience dramatically. I remember being kind of blown away by it. It was like you we can color code all the enemies so you know which ones are attacking you, which ones have noticed you like in blatant ways so you couldn't possibly misunderstand anything. And I'm like, "Oh, >> well, I guess uh we could shoot them for you as well." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Another bizarre a bizarre trend on top of that is letting you pick a difficulty setting and then giving you a modifier layer on top of that, but you can still like it still gives you the like the award for like beating that difficulty even if you bring like damage all the way down or whatever. >> Like Doom did that. This game does it >> a few other ones that I can't remember off the top of my head. It's just weirdly >> the the achievement hunter people are not complaining that it ruins the sanctity of beating the game on legendary and getting the achievements. >> Yeah. >> You know what? There should be a thing for if you beat it on legendary before they fix the [ __ ] plasma pistol bug. >> True. They need to pay me for that. They need to >> That was very much That was That really was funny. just like cuz cuz when you're playing a game and you just suddenly drop dead, there's a there's an extent to which you're like, "Oh, I guess I didn't see something or whatever." You know, it's it's it's not the game's fault. It's my fault. But then when it keeps happening, you're like, "No, something's wrong. Something's wrong with this game." Only to realize, "Oh yeah, like a charged plasma pistol will just [ __ ] one shot you dead." Like it won't just take out your shield. It was a bug that somehow pe the people who've been getting to play this game for the past 2 months, they just didn't notice that it was happening. >> Played it on Legendary. >> That's some [ __ ] I don't buy that for a [ __ ] second. >> No, I I I find it unbeliev cuz everybody figured it out soon enough like when they were playing the game, you know? Everybody eventually realized like, "Oh, yeah. I think that's I think it's just broken." And then to have the tweet like, "Yeah, we're fixing it out with the first patch." just like that is that is unbelievable. >> The first patch which was 20.2 gigs. >> Yeah. >> It was bordering on being like a jump scare for every name that kept entering the screen on the credits for play testers. I was just like, "No, there can't be this many. Stop. There can't be." >> But again, >> don't give us their names. You can't make their names public. They're in danger. >> Something of a point of pride of beating it on Legendary before, including the prequel levels. And my god, holy, I hate the prequel levels. Oh yeah, they're the worst. >> It's so dumb. >> You thought the library was too tedious and we needed to fix it. By the way, here's the prequel levels that are even more tedious and repetitive and just the same [ __ ] room layouts over and over. >> I can't believe that 343 were like, "Yeah, we could we could fix Halo Combat Evolved." We can. >> We know. >> I can I can believe that. was weirdly uh you know indulgent of them in the sense of like you really want to provide that director contrast for extra work like you could you could not do the extra work and then not humiliate yourselves that's an option >> but it's it's because they recognize that in order for this to have any well I say to have any value for this to have any value especially with no multiplayer for whatever reason it will emerge that there was no multiplayer when there is inevitably all the articles that come out that tell us like how disastrous the development of this game was. Um like I you know oh well we got extra levels so that that means you definitely want to play this instead of just getting MCC for much less money just playing the original game. See there's new content new new missions. It's like yeah but they're much worse than the original missions. Yeah, it's >> somewhat superfluous as well. The [ __ ] skins, man. Because obviously I've just thrown up some footage and I've got my reskinned weapons and >> the purple. Yeah, purple like needle all over you thing. That just looks ridiculous. >> I enjoyed the mech one where he's got a little head. >> Yeah, that one was funny. On the one where he's what is he? He's like a hybridized with a uh with a hunter. So, he's made of wood. >> Yes, I ended up using that on the prequel mission. Actually, I'll pull that up cuz I got the third person view going for that. Does anyone else try the uh the old third person? >> Yeah, I didn't even know it was an option. >> No, I couldn't find the score. >> It's It's um Man, it is It is It is funny that they marketed third person when it was clearly >> It was clearly like >> they needed it for the PlayStation. >> Oh god, I wish id known this existed. I would have been. So I I chose um because I'm doing a bunch of Odyssey videos, I I went for the obviously like the Spartan one where their thought process was, oh, you know how they call him a Spartan? >> We should totally make that a skin. So I was running around calling myself Fagamnon the entire time. And it turns out that like I could have actually seen myself in all my glory the entire time I was playing. I just didn't know that third person existed. I was expecting to see myself in cutscenes at least, but no. >> I gave this by the way, >> first and third person. And then I was like, "You could do a vote if you want to keep me in first or third." And they like categorically voted for first. They hated third person like watching it. >> I noticed, by the way, in your clip already, something that I noticed when I was using the needle rifle in third person is I think there's some sort of issue with um like almost where it places that your gun is firing from compared to the reticule where like the bullet will bounce off of uh the cover even though your reticule is well clear of it. >> I noticed it when you were firing your pistol that it bounced off. >> Shocking. Nobody. It does not feel like this game has been optimized in any way, shape, or form for third person. >> My favorite part I will say for third person and I noticed it very early is, you know, how in in com in Combat Evolved and including in this one when you switch to the pistol, you know, he pulls the slide back and that's like the delay, you know, it's like a 1second delay. Um, and it's super helpful to actually see that delay because then you know like, oh, now I can shoot. But in the third person mode, they don't animate that. it just switches immediately to the pistol, but you can't fire yet because it's still working off of the, you know, 1 second delay before you can shoot. So, you've just got this nice mismatch where it's like, well, I've changed to my pistol and it looks like he's ready to fire, but you haven't put in the animation of him racking the slide, but like you're still counting that, so I can't shoot for no reason. It's It's just some great attention to detail, you know, the kind that you would expect from a game that probably cost well over hund00 million to make. It's something I look at a lot of the times when I'm playing a game is especially if it's multiplayer or co-op and you could see other people. Can I see the animations that they're seeing in first person? Is it actually a part of the like the the third person model? And I always appreciate it when they do because it's like it's good to know what people are doing and the sounds that happen as a result. It could be a big deal big deal. It's not necessarily a nitpick at all if someone's reloading or healing or anything like that and they're and you could see it and you can hear it. I mean that's that's part of the game. However, there's no multiplayer. So, you don't need the feedback of what the enemy players are doing because they've released a Halo game without multiplayer. >> Um, also, >> firefight, which is bizarre. >> When trying to show the shitty skin, I just bumped into when I noticed like an enemy stuck in a wall and he can't get out. So, >> yeah, many such instances. We'll get to that. I figure, you know what? I figure the best. >> Yeah. >> I was gonna ask, was this the remix or the regular mode? >> The remix? Oh, uh, no, no, regular. >> Okay, because it happens very often on remix mode. >> I guess that's >> Oh, you mean you mean to say that when you you just arbitrarily remix the encounters that there are issues that make >> not accountable? Yeah. No, this is one of the encounters they intended is what I like what I found. It's like, oh dear. Well, they intended, even though no, we'll get the look. All right. You know, I figured the best way actually to to start this sort of conversation is to sort of contextualize it. You know, this is a remake. This is a remake of Combat Evolved. And >> it'd be nice before we spend a while talking about this game, if we if we all just spend a little bit of time talking about Combat Evolved >> and what we think about it and why it's why it's so nifty. Not to assume that literally everybody here likes that game. >> I'd be surprised if they didn't. >> I'm glad they I'm glad they finally fixed. >> Also, out of curiosity, cuz I know me and Platoon accounted this way, but we'd never played Combat Evolved before um before doing it for this. So, I don't know if anyone else has everyone else here had more experience or uh or some people new. Maybe do we want to start with just the first impressions >> because I feel like that's if we start with first impressions and then go to the more experienced people, I think that's more productive. >> Well, likeers Yeah. the people who played Halo for the first time uh for this or not as much. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Well, that'd be just uh because I know M has played Halo games before, but I think Platoon it was your first time like playing a Halo game at all. Well, I've played bits of um three and bits of ODST and bits of Reach, but that's cuz my friend owned an Xbox and we all played them co-op, but that like not even all the way through for any of those. It was just bits of them and that was way way way back ago. >> What about random out of curiosity? I think you >> Well, it same as Platoon, but with the exception of Combat Evolved. Combat Evolved, I think, was the first shooter I played, and I have played it a bunch, but I'm not wellversed in Halo as a as a franchise. I've only really played Combat Evolved and Reach. >> Well, you two are probably still best to go first at that point cuz uh I'm slightly more experienced than everyone else seems to be veterans. >> Yeah. So, well, yeah, platoon, what? Yeah, we we're doing we're doing the the thing, you know, like in a a minute or less or something like that. What did you think of Combat Evolves for playing it the first time? >> Um, oh, it was it was a lot of fun. Um, obviously like playing I got the Well, the Master Chief Collection it turns out is fundamentally and irreparably broken on my computer. So, getting it to work was difficult because it just kept minimizing itself for no reason, but once I figured that out every time I launched the game, it was really good fun. Um, >> just to clarify, it's not just you. >> Oh, cool. I'm glad >> there's always something wrong with people's installs of Master Chief Collection on PC. Yeah, it just kept minimizing itself every time I opened it and I had to like you had like half a second to press buttons until you got into the actual game and then put it in windowed mode and then it would be fine. Um but once I was in the game, it was a lot of fun. It's um it sort of reminded me how what what cuz it this was would have been exceptional for its time obviously way back in 2002. There's a reason it spawns this huge massive very popular franchise. It's a very very solid game. It's not perfect obviously because nothing is and nothing from that era is either. Um, but just to see the amount of care and attention that goes into the just the small details to make almost everything. You're never going to play that game exactly the same way twice because of the way um that you get chain explosions, because of the way all the guns have so many different effects. It's a whole set of fun just experimenting with what all of the weapons do. I went in expecting that like every other shooter I've ever played, I'm never going to use the pistol. So, I got rid of it and then I learned after the fact that the pistol is one of the best weapons in the game. um had like a very low opinion of the uh the the plasma pistol as well and never used it until I very quickly learned that it was one of the most useful weapons in the game. So, it's like it was learn relearning a whole bunch of stuff and learning a whole bunch of stuff for the first time. Um and obviously seeing it the way it was originally done rather than using anniversary graphics as well makes makes you think for as many limitations as they had, they absolutely eat everything they possibly could out of the resources that they had. Um, it's probably more complex and layered as as a shooter in terms of the way you can chain explosions, the way you can combine different weapons with various different effects together than a huge number of modern games are. And quite a lot of those effects seem to be missing even from the remake, which is um interesting. It's uh the word demake has has been thrown around and um accurately, I think. Um the voice line delivery was I mean not in a weird way not exceptional which is what makes it exceptional. Uh is one of the biggest complaints everybody I think has had about the the remake is how they've re-recorded redirected a whole bunch of lines. The original I don't think anyone there is is brilliant but they don't need to be because they are all quite clearly inhabiting the world that they're in. Nothing really calls attention to itself. Um every line is delivered in the way you would expect the line to be delivered. All the cut scenes being rendered in engine is cool because they they like they they paid a lot of attention to how you pace them, how you shoot them. Um, it was just made by a whole bunch of very very talented people. It made for a wonderful experience of what gaming used to be, which I'd almost forgotten given how long it's been since I played a game of this era. Um, so overall, a lot of fun to the extent that having never played two and don't not really remembering three, I'm probably going to just carry on and stream those at some point in the next couple of months cuz uh, yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. That may have been over a minute. I apologize. >> No, it's all good. I'm glad to hear the insight of somebody who's never experienced it before. >> Which uh that's Oh, well, actually, I mean, nevertheless, you said that you have played Halo C bunch, but um um Random, what do you uh what what are your thoughts on Combat Evolved? >> Uh just on the just on the original. Nothing about the one that's just >> the original. Yeah. No, we're having fun right now. >> Yeah. Okay. So, um, Combat Evolved, I'm 99% sure is the first shooter that I ever played cuz I can't think what else it would have been. It was either this or the why I'm a Fire Warrior game, which is nowhere near as good. Um, yeah, it's extremely fun to play. It has obviously influenced so much of what came afterwards, both with Halo and just with like shooters in general. Um, the music in this game is [ __ ] incredible. And every time it switches to a new track, it's like, "Oh, yes, I remember this." And it's just, yeah, I don't know. It it it does that in a way that very few games manage to do. Um, and like I I typically don't play games through more than once or twice. Combat Evolved. I've played I can't I can't even count it because I played it the first time when I was maybe 12. I don't know. Uh, including, by the way, the uh the Cursed Halo mod, which I played a couple of weeks ago for the first time, which I would definitely recommend. Um, yeah, like Platoon said, it it encourages not just shooting because like that is what it comes down to, but there is a lot of creativity from the player. There's a massive variety of weapons. There's a good variety of enemies. Um, the addition of vehicles um adds to the creativity as well. And the variety level variety is great. Um, like the story itself is very simple, but it does everything that it needs to do to allow for you to shoot some aliens. Um, and yeah, I guess in summary, this is one of my favorite games coming from someone who doesn't really play shooters, which tells you how much I like it. >> Mhm. >> Yep. That's uh I I guess it's a So, you know, it's it's funny that this remake will sort of pitch itself. It's like, yeah, we might we might be someone's first experience with like Halo first person shooters. It's like, man, >> what a terrifying prospect that is. Uh, Mubes, what do you think of Halo Combat Evolved? So, my just a a brief thing on like I had loads of friends who were playing all the Halo games and I just sort of was late to gaming in general. I'd played Doom, not Doom, Quake uh pretty early on, but Halo I always heard about. It was only when I was uh probably into 360 and Halo 3 came out and all my friends were playing it constantly. I was like, I'll get it. And then played the campaign and was confused. Obviously, I I do remember a bit of that, but also was just like, this is fun. and then played [ __ ] tons of multiplayer and custom games and that was just like a mainstay of that era. Um, that's what Halo was to me was the fun game you play with friends that's like like I never quite got into understanding anything about it broadly about you know with the story and then funnily enough uh I I unfortunately missed ODST cuz I couldn't afford it but Halo Reach was the one that I like was more properly you know engaged with story-wise because I was coming into what where it began technically instead of the third of the of the franchise. And then Halo Wars was actually what I I particularly enjoyed, even though uh it's like sacrilegious in the sense of an RTS on console that runs at like 30 FPS or whatever, but it was uh surprisingly sort of like I don't even know how to express like consumable for uh what it is and like some relatively fun cutscenes and stuff. I I was that that's my like Halo is completely borked to, you know, as a regular fan goes compared to what I've got. But um I was like, "Yeah, this is a good excuse to play Combat Evolve the first time." So, I don't know. And oh my god, the first uh the first thought and you could just you could just see it already. It's just like how much wonderful clarity there is in the uh graphic design of this whole game. I was like, it's nice to go back and play a game where I understand everything that's happening. The the rules given to mechanically are all extremely tight and straightforward. The challenge is right there and it's up to me to be able to understand the levels, understand the enemies, defeat them, and move on to the next challenge and then get some story along the way. That's fun with, of course, has been mentioned just banger music, you know, uh the the dialogue is not like wasting my time or desperately trying to poke at meta or anything. It just you gets nice and immersive of people taking this whole situation very seriously. And then it's uh it's relatively easy to follow too in terms of just like the pieces involved on the board, which I was actually surprised by because I didn't know like coming from pieces of like Halo Wars and Halo 3 and Halo Reach. I thought that this story was going to be way more complicated and bigger, but Halo 1 is actually like relatively straightforward, which again baffles me why they wouldn't have adapted this properly for a movie or a TV show by now, but oh well, you know, things happen. And uh yeah, no, just extremely fun and engaging and just a good sort of uh value proposition of my time where it's like you get these levels, you've got this mission story-wise, like get through it and there's all these different options and uh as mentioned, you can sort of mix it up every single time you go through. And then of course I was not even remotely upset by the fact that I was noticing all of the levels were repeating in reverse or not necessarily all of them but a lot of them because uh it had weighed like completely different value from story mechanics, level design and obviously enemy engagement uh which there's so much to say about the way they've designed the flood and the covenant to completely alter uh the experience of the game. So, it makes a lot of sense that this was kicking off um Halo and and what a fun experience it was before switching over to something else. >> Um Rags, why don't you tell us what you think of Combat Evolved? >> Similarly to um uh to to Random, I think that Halo Combat Evolved was the first firsterson shooter I I played. Um, I remember how big that controller was on the original Xbox. My little hands could could barely hold on to it, but it really did kind of like it was my introduction to an entire genre of game that um and I that I and I really appreciate it kind of for that alone being my first p first first person shooter. I love Halo. It's a very very nostalgic for me. Halo 2 in particular is really the most nostalgic for me of all the Halos because it's the one I had most regularish access to and played a whole bunch of. But um Halo was I mean without going too long and and how much like Halo has been a part of my I guess gaming you know career and and hobbywise and everything. I I I really really like Halo. I want to see it done well. I want to see it justified. I want to see new generations, you know, experience it and enjoy it. It is kind of one of those things that you, it's like an heirloom game in a way where like multiple generations can keep rediscovering it because it's so just like fundamentally excellent at the core. Uh, it doesn't age poorly. It only ages uh ages well. There's so many good lessons to take from it with its simplicity in terms of its story. But um what what's the well what's the the phrase that people often say where something's like mechanically not like super duper complex but there's a lot of depth to it. Halo is an excellent example of that. It's not like a super complex game in terms of its story or its gameplay but you can keep coming back to it over and over. It doesn't feel old. You can just hop in, boot up the game, play a level or two, and it just never gets old. It's it's very familiar. It's cozy. It's it's it's an old friend that's always, you know, he's always going to be there for you. he's never going to let you down. Um, so again, without going on too long, Halo means a lot to me in terms of my gaming past and I want it to be enjoyed by future generations of gamers for years to come. And with games like the Halo remake, I um it puts a little puts a little crack in that that dream of mine, unfortunately. But maybe it gets more attention placed on um on how good the original was. So maybe some good will come out of it. Maybe. But I guess we'll see as time goes on. But it seems like that is the case. Uh, this game didn't release to incredibly positive reception or numbers, but it did get people talking about how great the original is. >> Progression, what do you think of Combat Evolved? >> Um, so for me, Halo is a game that I have associations with all of them around the times that they came out, but it really is for me just another game that I have on my shelf. It's easy to pick up. It's easy to play. If I'm looking for something to play with somebody, I'm usually going to recommend Halo just because you can get anybody into it rather easily. However, I talk about it as much as I do simply because it is the flesh puppet that Microsoft trudges out whenever they are trying to sell Xboxes because it was one of the biggest things they ever sold. Um, the reality was Halo was not my first first person shooter. And um, as much as I like it, I like it for all the reasons that have been listed so far, just to be clear. But it completely and fundamentally changed the course of first-person shooters away in something of a tragic direction. Uh, that really wasn't recovered for about 15 years. Um, there was an era of '90s first-person shooters which were more so focused on like fast gameplay, uh, small kind of action stories as opposed to like big narrative experiences. And it's not so much Halo's fault as Halo was so good at what it did that its derivatives learned the wrong lessons from it. Particularly in regards to the recover, the regenerating shield concept would become uh just the regenerating health that would become endemic of Call of Duty games. And that put the first person shooter genre in a bad place for a long time. And so there's a perspective that Halo can be blamed for that. I still think fundamentally though it's a really good game and this remake has solidified aspects of appreciation for me that I hadn't before because I wouldn't think, hey, the voice direction was really good back in the day. That's not something I really ever thought about until I saw how badly you can butcher these lines. >> Yeah. >> John, what do you think? I'm sorry. >> Sorry. I just wanted to emphasize there is a there is a alternate perspective of Halo had a negative effect on the first person shooter genre and on the games industry as a whole but not because Halo was bad but because people wanted to have their own success of Halo. There's so many times I've read the stories from games in the 2000s of so and so saw a headline about how Halo 2 beat Pirates of the Caribbean at the box office and they wanted their own Halo 2 and it led to the industry as a whole into a bad direction which is an unfortunate >> Halo Killer. Uh that's a as a term. >> Yeah. that whole concept. Um, which Call of Duty 4 was like the the Halo killer, unfortunately. But >> yeah, I feel I would feel remiss if that wasn't brought up because we're being very nostalgic here and people usually want to hear that perspective as well. No, that that that's chill, but I don't care if people felt that way that Halo ruined first person shooters is kind of how almost how I feel cuz I I like it so much. Well, the argument we made for one of the most like I hate this like comfy console sci-fi shooter that is Halo. I just want it to sit on my shelf and be something I can go back to. I don't want it to be this thing that Microsoft keeps trying to resurrect because they're fuckups who can't manage companies properly. That's what I that's what I hate about the current circumstances and that's why I bring it up. It's just it's frustrating >> being a fan of Halo dealing with this [ __ ] >> A lot of the most influential games have that effect, right? cuz like Doom created a genre for >> well Call of Duty Core as well as brought up >> and you don't say Doom is a bad game because it changed gaming in a first-person shooter direction but the derivatives are what was the problem with Halo? >> Yeah, fair enough. Uh John, what do you think of uh Combat Evolved? >> Uh I got a long history with the franchise even before I started making films with it. I mean, that wasn't until like Halo 3 introduced theater mode. But like I I started playing around 2003, I think. And it was the the cons or the game that made me like try to convince my parents to get an Xbox. Like right after I just convinced them basically to get me a PS2 so I could play GTA V city. And then I saw this. I was just like, you I got to get an Xbox too. I' be like, dude, look. It's like you drive the vehicles. Looks so much fun. And uh I love the campaign. It's so lean. There's no fat on it. It's just like it's a very sharp zigzag of plotting where it's just like we're doing we're here doing this now and now you got to do this and it's it's very immersive because the plotting like what you're doing mission to mission makes a lot of sense. It's like we got to rescue our guys and now and now we know where our captain is and it's nighttime and it's time for a stealth mission and it's all just very like well considered and paced out. And if you watch the vioc for these games, I mean it's obvious like they really cared about making something that was, you know, fun and they, you know, you can tell they were working their asses off. I shudder to think what a vi on Halo Studios would be like. I think it would be maybe one of the most embarrassing things put to film with all the horror stories I've heard about >> next week. >> Interesting. >> I've never heard it said I've never heard it as VIO. I always thought it was Vidok. >> Oh, is it okay? It could be. >> I don't know if it is now. Now I'm questioning. >> I don't know. I don't think it's ever actually been said, but Vid do it. >> See Vidok. >> Vidok makes more sense. I don't know. Videog runs off the tongue better for me. Anyway, >> yeah, no worries. >> We're all right. >> We'll allow it. >> I'm a I'm a big fan. And this I mean it's just I think the most offensive thing I find about it is it's just Sorry, are we are we talking just about our just original Halo? Okay, >> just just for now. Yeah, because we're having fun right now. >> It's a It's a good game. It's always it's always stuck with me. It's got a very floaty fun feel to it. Uh I love the physics in it. Like even though they're kind of unrealistic and ridiculous, I love that you can like collide two Warthogs together and they sink into each other like rubber bands and then they like do back flips. >> Um >> it's very unique because like every obviously physics became very realistic like a couple years after. So, it's fun to go back to when they didn't have real physics engines and experience just how janky it is. >> Yeah. I mean, even Halo 2 changed that. Like, they they've changed the vehicle physics in a way where I was just like, even though I really like Halo 2. Um, so like there's just a way this game plays that I'm very fond of. And, um, yeah, I don't know what else to say at this point. I think I kind of summed it up. >> You on that that mention of the vehicles on my first try with this game. I was having so much fun driving ghosts and warthogs through levels that I absolutely was not allowed to be doing. >> Yeah. >> It's cute that the game lets you it there's neat little things you can do like fly the banshee on assault in the control room and then the remake had to [ __ ] that up and point it out. >> Sorry. Well, um the thing like >> this is a really interesting comparison or at least I'll just I'll do it in the form of praising of combat, but like this is absurd me driving this [ __ ] vehicle through this area, but it does work. They do let you like like I I struggle to believe for even a second that they had no idea this was happening for a player, but I I choose to believe that they they were like, "Go for it. If you do this, go for it." Yeah. Like have some fun. instead of them locking the game up or resetting you or putting an invisible wall that destroys the ghost if it crosses a barrier. You know what I mean? >> It's like I really like it when that sort of [ __ ] happens. I don't >> This isn't even breaking it. You know what I mean? Like this is this is kind of how it would work. You wouldn't really want to drive a ghost into this [ __ ] room, but if you do, this is how it would go. >> There's one really I know wouldn't jump ahead too much, but it's kind of relevant to this. There's one bit in the remake which I'm pretty sure they've only changed to stop players having fun, which is that they have made certain doors close faster than they used to. So, you can't get a banshee through them. And that's the only reason they've done it, I'm pretty sure. >> Yeah. Door force closes if you're in the banshee. You can get it in there on co-op, but only if you do like the dodge roll into the hallway. Whereas, yes, in the original Combat Involved on Two Betrayals, you can fly the damn Banshee through the level. >> Yep. I like how Mhler said like, "Oh, yeah, look at this." Like the vehicle doesn't explode when you take it somewhere that you're not supposed to take it. Like that may or may or may not be foreshadowing for later. >> Um, so, uh, in my case, my my history with Halo is like very garbled, I think, would be the way to describe it. I think the first one that I played was Halo 2 um at a friend's house, but then it was uh Halo 3 was was definitely sort of the first proper exposure to uh to Halo cuz I just never had an Xbox or an Xbox 360 and then I really wanted an Xbox 360 uh after I after I played Halo 3. Um, but alas, I I only had my PlayStation 3, which I did seriously consider for a while whether I wanted to switch it for an Xbox 360 just to play Halo 3 because I enjoyed it so much. And then I and then the first time that I played Combat Evolved was on PC on a laptop without a uh without a mouse. It was on the uh the trackpad. That was the first that was the first time that I played Combat Evolve was on the track. >> And man, I I loved it even then. >> Even then, it was still a blast. Um I'm I am very I I am very fond of Halo as a series. Um I think it's such a cool world. Um I I adore the soundtrack for the Halo games. Absolutely adore the soundtrack, the atmosphere, the vibe. I enjoy the the the the campy fun that it has while balancing it sort of or inspiring and majestic tone. And in the case of Combat Evolved, it is um it it is a strikingly elegant game given that it was the first time um it was the you know the first in its series solving many of the problems that come with it. It was uh the first it it was kind of the first of its kind in terms of this kind of first person shooter on a console. Obviously, they've made stuff like Golden Eye and Perfect Dark, but um but in this case, it's you know, it it was sort of achieving its own uh new thing as well. And and yet, even with that being the case that there were a lot of problems that were being confronted for the first time, it comes across as an incredibly coherent sort of um a a very coherent game with a coherent style and and um and and and a really like solid foundation and and objectives that are that are being accomplished. um to the point that it's almost strange that in many ways it comes across potentially as like the most coherent Halo game in terms of its goals compared to the later games even though they had you know learned a lot of lessons and those games all have their their strengths as well um in ter you know Halo 2 is a very ambitious game uh which which there's a lot that it it gains from that and to be respected from that but then there are the expected problems that come with it but in the case of this just like a really tight campaign I would echo what John said that it's um it really is very lean. It's uh basically doing just about everything it needs to do and never really taking things too far or pushing things too far or getting too um garbled or confused uh in terms of uh the story that it's trying to tell or um or the the scenarios that it's essentially putting you in. Uh it's it's uh it's just and and and a really robust sandbox that allows you to do things like what what uh what what um what what Mhler was doing here and which is which is probably like one of the core strengths of it is that yes it is simple but amidst the sandbox that is created in this game and all of the Bungie Halo games is a really remarkable amount of variety and emergent gameplay opportunities that can um that can sort of spill out because of how welldesigned the um the the enemies are, how how um how much they sort of complement the weapons that the game gives you to play around with and the vehicles um and the variety of environments that you can sort of play around with them in. It's just it's a really cool game. I like it a lot. I think I said when I finished playing uh Calbat of I was like, "Free, did you ever take the ghost into an elevator just to see what would happen?" I don't think I ever did this, but this is very amusing. This is the kind of jank that you like, not the kind now where it's like, oh, this game is running this. >> Sorry, we don't need to talk about >> We're still eating them lotus flowers, aren't we? >> Can I a bit of lore here with Halo CE? Um, one of the important things about appreciating this game is that it is inexurably tied to the Xbox as a console and what Microsoft was attempting to do with it. The Xbox was uh Microsoft's first console and they were entering into kind of a competitive market. You had the PlayStation, you had Nintendo. They were kind of duking it out in the casual uh entertainment system space. What Microsoft wanted to do was leverage the fact that they had a monopoly on the PC market by making a console that was very easy for PC developers to port their games to. And one of the most interesting aspects of Halo is that Bungie was a Macintosh game developer before >> they made and they made uh I forget their names, but it's a handful of RTS games and they were for Mac OS. >> One of them. Yeah. >> Yes. And Microsoft was like, "We're going to snipe one of Apple's top game developers and prove that they can make a game for a console the same way that you would make a game for PC." And that revolutionized the games industry because it it used to be that you would have a console version and a PC version and they would be radically different because of the way that the hardware worked. Whereas Xbox's revolution was what if you just made a PC that did console things. >> Yep. We had a6 processor which was yeah unheard of >> which eventually became normal. It took Sony a while to uh to be willing to do that as notably with the PlayStation 3, but that was very much flying a bit too close to the sun. I would say that they're doing that right now, but I don't think there will be any consequences for it. So, you know, >> it is um that that is crazy to think. I'm pretty sure the first time that Halo got shown publicly was at Macworld >> like Steve Jobs. >> That's very funny. >> Well, that was Yes. because that that is an interesting thing as well is that Halo started as a as a real-time strategy game >> and then eventually >> um they chose either a company that specialized in two genres that really hadn't been represented on console up to that point because console games were like third person action games and brawlers and puzzle games and stuff like that. First person shooters and real-time strategy games were just not something that you expected to get when you bought a console. Obviously, you have Perfect Dark and Golden Eye, but those were rather exceptions to the rule. And I guess Doom 64. >> No, that's I think it's fair to say that it is it's, you know, Halo was not the first the first first person shooter on a console, but there's a reason why it almost has that reputation uh along with something like Golden Eye because I mean, yeah, you can definitely see the formula uh that emerged later on. Um and and I guess that's an an interesting aspect of the design of the game as well is um you know there there are a lot of these decisions that essentially spawn from those limitations um and confronting the challenges that come with that is uh sort of an interesting conundrum. Right? This is a game that is built around the idea that you're only going to be carrying two weapons at a time. Um, rather than having a complete arsenal of weapons, which means that you need to design encounters and enemies that promote switching weapons, like as in deliberately abandoning one weapon that you might want to use in this situation for another one. So, like the decision-m about what kind of weapons you want to use is in part based on what weapons you want to take forward through, you know, the next portion of the level. uh depending on what kind of um enemies you're going to be, you know, sort of dealing with as you progress and like figuring out a way to balance that in a way that's going to be fun. It's like, yeah, no, those are, you know, those are interesting challenges that you have to solve um that are solved very well. I remember it as like uh I think it's the first shooter I played where the with dual analog sticks where the experience felt very smooth and I I love that Duke controller that Rags was describing earlier the big one like you're holding a balloon. >> It was big especially my little my little hands when I >> It's big now. I have one downstairs. They're huge. >> Yeah. My first >> my first shooter was Golden Eye and that was just this the one analog stick and with tank controls basically you turn left and right >> and I think like I already had a PS2 and I don't think I had any shooters for it though and I think I had Tur Rock Evolution for Gamecube but using the C stick as an aiming stick kind of sucks >> but this felt like Starox >> like really awesome to play is okay with some it depends on the game. Yeah, >> reminded us the footage is playing. It's like the co the covenant is so awesome as a faction like not only with their lore but also just to fight. >> Um man just like that core trio that then gets expanded on but like elites grunts and jackals >> have such great interplay between them. >> The core of it is these slow projectiles that you can predict too. That's a very important part of the formula is that it there you're not being shot at with hit scan weapons because >> when that happens you tend to just have to hide behind cover a lot whereas you can see when he plays combat evolved he's taking a lot of risks. He's going out of cover. He's being aggressive. No, that that is really important because of the fact that there is a consistent movement speed and there is no [ __ ] sprint which we'll be talking about that a lot today. It means that there's a level of predictability both from you, but also the game is in a position where it's easy for them to predict how you're going to move through the environment. >> That I actually did find kind of jarring because it's been a having never played this one before, but also having just it's been so long since I played anything from sort of the early 2000s. Not having sprint and not having aim were two of the things that were probably the bigger hurdles to get over at the beginning. you're just so used to having those as your options um in anything I've played since. So like you get into certain positions and you expect to be able to sprint to cover or you are so used to aiming to like maximize accuracy from any position that you instinctively I instinctively anyway always just like immediately go to L2 to aim before I start shooting. And it took quite a while in the first stream to sort of train that out to the point where like I we'll I'm sure discuss it in more detail later. I'm not innately opposed to adding sprint or I'm certainly not opposed to adding aim as long as everything else updates along with it. The problem might be hypothetically that nothing else updated to account for these new mechanics. But once you get over once I got over that uh that that sort of >> that I guess kind of a culture shock sort of thing then you find >> anxiety. >> I suppose it kind of is. Yeah. Cuz there's a degree of security that comes with with these mechanics that you just you used to overrelying on them in a way and actually you have to be more careful. We were speculating that they added sprint because they were concerned that players would have that anxiety that they press shift and nothing happens. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, but you do get used to it fairly quickly and then it becomes like it's a different sort of challenge which I then started to remember from having played say even like earlier Call of Duty games to an extent and like like some of the first Call of Duty zombies is that when you're not overrelying on sprint or or anything like that then you kind of get into this this weird sort of hypnotic rhythm which is part I think of the appeal of the thing. There are certain movement patterns, particularly against the flood, but it also works against some of the Covenant because of these slow weapons that you sort of you get into this weird very pleasant flow state where you sort of you're never stopping entirely. You're always sort of weaving very slowly. Occasionally cover is required, but it just makes the whole thing you don't turn your brain off at any point, but it does feel way more natural, less jagged, less there's a few fewer like tension bumps I guess than you would get in a modern game. Yeah. a bit of a covenant dance, you know. >> Actually, the uh the footage here I borderline stumbled on. I was like, this is actually a good example of how you could go through the bridge more carefully, but the game does have enough dynamit out of you for like nailing shots and grenades. And then I just mention weaving as well. Yeah. Like cuz this this is one of the I'm remembering now. I was like this was actually one of the more fun parts for me because of how well this ended up working. I was kind of messing around on the bridge and then I had a run that was like really [ __ ] good that would, you know, it feels for a moment like you are a cutscene Master Chief. >> It It's funny because it's influenced the culture where people will see you doing this and go, "You must be bad at the game because you're not taking the dominant strategy as sitting back in cover and hiding." And it's like, no, this is how first-person shooters used to be. It used to be about going as fast as possible, about taking risks, and if you fail, you reload, you try again. You change your mental algorithm a bit, and you just slowly get better at at the game by the expression of go fast, take risks, don't just sit at the back of the map with a precision weapon and snipe out enemies. >> It invites a kind of player expression, which is something that's super important in video games. It's almost hilarious. I feel the need to point that out. that player expression is like an important aspect of what makes games worthwhile as an experience. Uh rather than having everything about that g uh experience be curated by uh but you know there is a level of curation that is obviously required for all games. It's not only is it is it welcome but it's necessary of um you know making choices about what kind of enemies you're going to encounter in what kind of room and what kind of weapons do we want to place here. Whether it's the weapons that the enemies have or the weapons that we decide to put here for you to mess around with. Yet within, you know, the the sort of boundaries and uh within that scope, there's a huge amount of freedom um that is offered in terms of how you want to express your uh essentially your abilities in the game to kind of show off how good you are at it to, you know, yourself. >> Um >> it encourages you to play in a way that's fun to watch. >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> Which is which is kind of an interesting thing to think about the nature of Yeah. what makes it a fun to watch experience. >> It's also fun in co-op where you're seeing your friends do goofy [ __ ] and like you get to laugh at like you're trying something really risky and then either they eat [ __ ] and it's funny or it all works out and it's funny. It's a funny game to play with people because of the dynamic gameplay. >> That's that's sort of a a good thing to to sort of hone in on as well is that the tone of our Halo is something that 343 has never really been man able to capture. And part of it is because uh as much as there is a certain loftiness and and awe that Halo inspires, it is also pretty funny and goofy. Like the grunts and elites are funny and they make funny sounds when they go flying. >> Marines are funny. >> The Marines say funny things. That's right. >> The chain grenade reactions that send all the corpses flying around the room. >> It's a It's a really interesting balance given that this is a game that halfway through turns into a horror game for a little while. you know, like it's a like and a very effective horror game like the floor anime faction like from a conceptual standpoint. >> If you were to shoot a grunt to death with the assault rifle, you'd see there's lots of blood everywhere. This is a very, this can be a very bloody game to play. And so there's an interesting dichotomy of like it's a fun experience, but it, you know, it's an adult experience and that, you know, it takes itself seriously. It's funny, but you insert the funniness, not the game itself. >> Well, the game has to insert funniness. Well, yeah, it's it's not that kind of it's it's, you know, the marines will say funny things like in the middle of combat. >> Um, I say they talk [ __ ] while you play, but they talk [ __ ] in the way that like someone sitting on the couch next to you. >> Yeah. They're not winking and nudging at you when they do it like ah, was that funny? And they all sound sort of like they have a sense of humor that is believable from a bunch of Marines as none of them says, for example, oh, you're standing in my aura space. None of them says any [ __ ] like that. Um, but that was one of the things I was really impressed with as well, cuz not only is that their humor is on point and the way they're characterized is really good, but the the dynamism and the reactivity in all of their lines was really impressive. Um, it was way more than I was expecting. >> They will compliment you. They'll react to individual things you're doing in the moment. If they shoot you, they'll apologize. If you shoot them, they understand that's what happens. If you've killed someone, they're shooting it. I think they react to that. And likewise, if they shoot someone died, they'll shoot down at corpses to make sure they're dead and have lines about it. Like, >> yeah, >> I must highlight with with what has just been said cuz it's so [ __ ] funny in by comparison, a different game, not necessarily a relevant game when you're supposed to be defending a big old starship and you just allow it to be pummeled over and over and over again and then it ends with Chief going target neutralized. >> Oh, yes. cuz that it would be crazy if they designed a sequel. They're like, "You need to stop ships and you don't have to and you still win. You literally don't have to." >> And the other characters are like, "Good job, Chief." I was like, "Nice, Chief." It's like, "I didn't I didn't do anything." >> Okay. >> In terms of uh in terms of writing, it I I figure it would be worthwhile to uh sort of focus on that a little bit as well, cuz um or or you know, maybe tethered to the structure. This this game feels like it can be divided into four very clean acts. Like act one is kind of the the you know humans are on the back foot. They find themselves in a strange place, you know, sort of split up, outnumbered. Um and the first act of the game is essentially sort of rallying everybody together and figuring out kind of what your quest is going to be. And then act two is, oh, Halo is a weapon. We could use that. All right, that's what we're going to do. Big sort of military campaign to to get uh control of Halo. Um, and then it's like, "Oh, we did it. We're in the control room. Nice. Oh [ __ ] Oh [ __ ] Oh Jesus. Oh my god." And then that's like, you know, act three is that Halo harbors like a dark secret. Um that that is so terrifying that it's completely flips the um it flips the central conflict on the on its head. You know, the fact that the first thing you see in 343 Guilty Spark is the Covenant running away from something. Very very the presentation. >> Yeah. Yeah. No. Well, you know, and and then of course, as someone in chat has pointed out, it's like, oh, so that's the dark secret is the flood. Okay, but we can use it against them. Nice. Oh. Oh, god. And then twist number two that sort of takes us into the fourth act, which is now everybody's against you. You've got the Covenant against you. You've got the flood against you, and you even got the, you know, the the the constructs of this installation against you. Um, and now you, you know, you've sort of got to rally as like the complete underdog to destroy Halo in a means that is not, you know, conventional essentially. It's it's a really cool structure. >> It feels in in a way that 343, Guilty Spark and the library as two levels are almost like that they are one of those acts because after that it becomes like the resolution of well, how do we deal with all this [ __ ] that's happening? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Um, and and by the way, I just I just I love it. Like I love that as a as a structure for the game that it initially presents as a bombastic action adventure where you're fighting these aliens only to then transform into like a horror game where you're dealing with an ancient evil that at this point, you know, it it doesn't necessarily need to be spelled out for you, but there's like a lot to be sort of read into and inferred about what may have happened to the people who created Halo based on the fact that you do uncover, you know, this this sort of ancient evil. And then Guilty Spark shows up and he just starts saying weird things to you. He says he says a lot of things that make sense, but then there are a lot of things that he says that's like you're talking to me like you know who I am. You know, of course, >> we're not friends. Like what? >> It's uh it's interesting considering how long this show's been running that uh had I isolated from anything I've heard you guys talk about, I would have said like the two favorite levels are probably going to have to be Silent Cgrapher and uh 343 Guilty Spark. one for the level design and just like glorious structure and experience and the other just what a flip- in atmosphere and a way to control all of the elements to make the story like really hit. >> Yeah, well executed >> which is going to be very interesting to talk about considering certain changes that were made. It was a really it's a really good um balance and that that's kind of a good example as well of how this game is able to balance its narrative aspirations which are you know compared to the games that came later from Bungie. You could say it is less ambitious like Halo 2 is particularly uh quite ambitious in terms of how much story it wants to tell in its game. But the balance between yeah like essentially creating like just really great encounters on their own that you that you're just going to have fun with even divorced from the context something like silent cgrapher compared to guilty spark which is obviously it's teaching you new things about the flood a new enemy type that you need to deal with but it's it's trying to it's trying to evoke feelings in you sort of beyond even just the the gameplay experience. Um, and it's a really very nice balance in particular. worth saying too because I guess this would be much more applicable maybe I I don't know necessarily for me uh random and platoon but playing on MCC and knowing this is like so to speak the experience but then also having an option at will to press tab >> and to um experience the future >> the future where it's a it's a foggy you know >> a bog but it's it's got nice god rays piercing through nice and bright god rays >> this is one of the scariest parts parts of the game for me. I uh I couldn't get over that for a bit when I was on stream cuz people kept telling me like make sure to press tab in a level and I was like oh here we go. And um I just like I was saying I've got a particular bone to pick with how games have evolved into being obsessed with graphics and it's more so like fidelity and extra detail and everything. Whereas I go back to playing something like Combat Evolved and I feel I feel comfy as hell knowing that I can understand where everything [ __ ] is. knowing what what is important >> you can understand where everything is and what's supposed to be there but you also understand that everything was done here for a a reason for an aesthetic reason the entire vibe is very very carefully created then when you press tab here and it's like how about we add a bunch of lights >> I think uh graphical remasters and remakes are onlogically evil >> I one thing that pisses me off about MCC and I had this issue when I first when I streamed Combat Evolved was It's like it defaults to the cut scenes and everything and the anniversary version and I'm like no no no stop you have to cut it. >> They [ __ ] with the music. They [ __ ] with the music in Halo 2. >> Genuinely part of the problem though is that a huge portion of the the audience would would honestly look at you and be like but it's better. >> Even then the creators would obviously say but it's better. It's like obviously better. >> We ignore those people. Honestly, no. Anniversary hate is very common. And there's not a lot of people who are like, "This looks better." At this point, like any kind of appreciation for it has faded away. Not even before the remake was even announced. Anniversary was like not looked at in a positive light in the Halo community. >> I Well, I think anyone who does analysis on like Halo games or even games broadly, it has the the take of like what they have [ __ ] with the art design. But I just mean like you know like a general public the I I put this in the same category as black and white is automatically worse than color or 4x3 is automatically worse than letter box or widescreen or 2D games are automatically worse than 3D games. >> It is so tacky of an art style change that >> it that I think that even like it it didn't last even a couple years before people started to just make fun of it. partially because there's parts of the levels that are ruined because the new graphics will put uh models in places that they didn't originally exist. And so you will think that there's something in the way that there's not. You'll get shot through it or it takes away and you'll think you can shoot through something that's actually solid in the original game. There's weird like hitbox mismatches like that. >> Yeah. They don't quite And when you tab back and forth, you can even see that sometimes the geometry just doesn't quite line up. you like you had you had one job. >> Yeah, >> there was a point I wanted to add to what Fringy was saying where there's a tonal shift of from bombastic shooter to like kind of horror game. I would argue the final three missions go back to the bombastic shooter because Master Chief has that uh indomitable human spirit of you know what, everybody wants to kill us. >> We're still going to exist uh insist that we get to exist. And so there's a appreciable aspect of that that I think if 343 was making this game today, they would want to >> um diminish those aspects because it's too aspirational, >> which is funny when it is like a binding element of the Bungie Halo games is essentially that that is like that's sort of the core quest is sort of fighting to for the right to exist in this galaxy. >> Actually, I'm sorry. I I completely blanked it out. The Halo TV show is exactly that. It is focusing on the negative aspects of humanity to such a degree that you have to wonder if the point of the show is maybe the humans do deserve their genocide. >> Well, it's it I mean it is very bizarre, isn't it? It's like >> it makes me want to genocide >> focusing on infighting within humanity compared to like a broader conflict that's actually way more important cuz I mean it it is you know Master Chief is the most important character essentially in any given situation. But something that is really cool about the Halo games and even present here is this feeling that Chief is just one element of a broader battle that's taking place. Not just in terms it's it's little things, right? How like when you're in the levels, you'll often have Fauxhammer come in and drop down like vehicles for you and then go off to do something else. Um the fact that the Covenants are the ones who released the flood um because they've got their own thing that they're doing that is going you know well beyond the purview of uh of chief. It really helps sell that this is a very big world that you're on. And of course, another thing that helps is even just one of the one of the I say it's not underrated because pretty much everybody has probably done it at some point, but just just looking up, you know, when you're when you're when you're outside and just looking up at the sky and then seeing Halo, you know, arc up into the sky curve back around. That's probably something everybody's done when they played Halo Combat Evolved at some point. It's just like, dude, that's so cool, man. Just even that on its own, >> just as an idea of having a ring that is a world that you're on the inside of and you look up, it it is so alien and so cool. It's it's brilliant. >> Which of course it's not it's not an original idea to Halo. >> It's probably one of the best incarnations of it though in science fiction. >> Mhm. >> Uh I think that would I think that's undeniable because of its impact. Yeah. >> It's pretty mind-blowing at the time to do something like that with a skybox. I'd never seen that before. >> I love the skybox. >> This is a great Bungie always was good at skyboxes. >> You couldn't possibly [ __ ] up this skybox. It's so clean and and simple that you there's no possible way that screw it up and make it worse. >> There's there's a liinal aspect to the art style. And it's strange that we went through a time period where everybody on the internet was focused on the whole liinal spaces and liinal horror and 343 didn't look at that and go maybe that's an aspect of the original art style that needs to be preserved. The way that this whole mega structure feels creepy because for some reason all the grass is mowed but there's no al there's no there's nobody's living here is mowing the grass. There's no animals eating the grass but everything's just like a little too manicured and there's a weird repetition to it and it's like this feels like prefabricated. It probably is. There's a creepiness to Halo CE >> that you don't really notice because it's in the background of this really fun gameplay. But >> yeah, >> what really worked about 3.3 Guilty Spark was was that feeling. Everything fell off, >> which is kind of a that is interesting compared to in Halo 2 where Delta Halo uh Delta Halo, you know, particularly on the level Delta Halo, the ruins are, you know, sort of covered in moss and uh and and um and shrubbery, which sort of gives it off and it it gives off like a more apparent and more recognizable sort of ancient uh nature compared to when there's, you know, the cave is not a natural formation. Yeah, that's a funny meme. But like it is a noteworthy thing that this so much of the game is about these like beautiful sort of open natural environments, but then you'll just come across something that's completely artificial. >> In regards to Halo 2, um it also says something about the world building of that game because the monitor of that installation has been captured. The Sentinels are no longer working on maintaining the structure. And so you see this just gradual amount of decay when you first arrive. That's like you would think, oh well maybe they just updated the art style. But no, it turns out that this minor level detail that you notice earlier on says something about the story of Halo 2. >> Yeah, because this there was back in the era when games were good reliably. Reliably quality. Oh well, never mind. Um, no. I mean, the limitless space thing is an interesting observation and there might be certain people that get really angry about like that getting brought up because it's like, well, it wasn't what they intended. It's like, well, number one, it's very hard to know at this point sometimes what people intended for things that they made like 20 25 years ago, especially if they make new statements about what they intended to do gets complicated. But at the end of the day, like game is what it is. I was I was going to say some of the level designers have been speaking up about what they intended like with the silent cgrapher tree that blocks you from driving the warthog up the level. The level designer has said like we had a very specific intention with that. >> Oh well I was thinking about the art director has has said that he uh that like oh you know campaign evolved is kind of what we you know I would have wanted to make it look like all those years ago. And it's like, dude, I respect I respect you a lot cuz you are the art director for the Halo games, but it is one of those cases of like, I'm not sure what I meant to do with these statements when it uh clashes so hard with what is >> more. A lot of artists will say that. You'll see that. And I think it has to do more with I wish when we were making this game, we had access to this technology because we could have >> you we could have used it better. Like the this cool sand physics system or the snow melting under the ghost. It's like these are cool details I wish we had access to but obviously we didn't. >> Yeah. Well, and ultimately like a game is, you know, for for whatever, you know, they might have wanted to do or tried to do depending on what kind of technology they had. All of these games are a product of what they had. And I I don't say that as like, oh, they're, you know, they're a product of their time in a condescending way. It's more like no like what you you created something like the experience is what it is um you know uh regardless of essentially the technology and then it sort of stands as what it is even when the technology improves and sometimes that can yield really interesting and valuable results like something like this game that it is kind of unique amongst the Bungie Halo games even in terms of uh in terms of its art direction. >> Yes. A lot of people don't really mention this, but um Halo CE stands out even among the Bungie era just because there was a bit of a tonal shift with how they were approaching Halo with the later games where there's a bit of a mismatch where uh Halo the standalone game versus Halo the series foundation. >> Yeah. Almost what you see in a pilot episode of a show versus like what the show kind of becomes where there's a certain level of quirkiness that's often present in a pilot. a level of um yeah like that they haven't quite figured everything out yet. Um and that sometimes and sometimes in that case a lot of the time you know it's usually for the better. The pilot is usually rough and then they figure it out. But in the case of Halo it's kind of an interesting thing of like man it's like a really unique experience though. >> Just wanted to just what it said cuz it was highlighted the Discord. So, there are 4,454 people watching us right now, and there are currently 4,378 people playing Campaign Evolve. >> Oh, no. Wow. >> Oh my goodness. >> I think >> on Ste. >> We predicted that um on stream was that more people would watch us than play the game itself. >> Wait, how many people are playing the M Master Chief Collection? >> More. >> Probably. Almost certainly more. >> Lots more. Yeah, there was a decent amount playing when we checked um when we've been doing the checking because the MCC is pretty reliable. It's probably in the it's just it's probably in the state where it's always going to have some people people rediscovering it, going back to it. >> So, right right now it's it looks like uh just over 8,000 people. >> That's you know to be as pragmatic and straightforward as possible, it is the extremely beneficial value proposition. Like out of the two games to buy, it's a no-brainer. It would be insane. >> Yeah. I mean, you there's only one bad game that you get in the collection. The rest of them are great, >> you know, like you can you can deal with that one bad game to um which I will say uh I I could keep talking about Combat Evolved forever. But the thing is is that we will we will obviously inevitably circle back to it as we uh as we start talking about the the remake. But I suppose >> comparisons will be rife. Yeah, >> we we should probably start doing that. But I will say for those of you who haven't played Combat Evolved or any of the Halo games at all, now might just be a good time with everything that's been said, like dude, what are you waiting for? Get MCC, play Combat Evolved, play Halo 2, then play Halo 3, ODST, Reach. You can stop there. You don't have to play Halo 4. >> Play the first five games. Yeah, >> it's a it's a funny comment. Um, when we were talking about our relationships with Halo, not a single person mentioned Halo 4. The end point that everybody mentioned was either Reach or Halo Wars. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's uh I mean, Reach is a really nice full circle moment. I know Reach has got it, you know, Reach has got its problems for sure. I recently replayed it because I wonder if there's a reason why I felt like I needed to replay Halo Reach while playing Halo Campaign Evolved. I wonder if we'll talk about that a little bit. But, uh, it it really is a nice full circle moment. It's a really, you know, and then it's like, yeah, it's it ties a bow on it. What a great collection of games. And then 343's tenure comes and it has at this point dramatically eclipse the amount of time that Bungie ever spent uh, with Halo. >> It's been 15 years, more than that actually, since they were founded. It's more like 18 years. >> Just to take another uh, little [ __ ] on MCC uh, because James Moore has provided this. It's the uh the way they changed the library map. There's like a part where they've pasted a wall in front of a different where a wall is supposed to be and if you pull the stream up, you can see it and you can walk through it and it's like [ __ ] the whole geometry of the map. >> No. >> Oh yeah. >> What? >> Oh no. Yes. This is one of the the geometry changes I was talking about earlier. The library is particularly a victim of this. Um, assault on the control room and by extension uh, two betrayals are also massive victims of this weird geometry changes >> as a result of them wanting to be like, "Oh, no, but the new style, we have to keep it in da da da and unify the aesthetics to the whole thing." It's mostly a strong experience when it works because it is the original game. And that's the fundamental confusion people have with campaign evolved as we're about to get into. It's like you had the full blueprint >> somehow. >> Can I give you a bit of a blueprints? >> Can I lore for a second? >> Yeah, go for it. Uh Halo CE on MCC was hated initially by like Giga Autistic Halo fans because it was using the gearbox port instead of the original Halo CE and there were a couple things that were broken in the gearbox port. I think most notably like the skybox on Assault in the Control Room was broken. Um but that's mostly been forgotten to time uh because MCC eventually did uh patch stuff like that. There's weird stuff where MCC would change aspects of Halo 1 and it would change the AI behavior. So, the speedrunning community, for example, noticed that there is a skip on assault in the control room where you trick a banshee into landing and you use it to fly to the end of the level. There was an AI update that changed how those banshees behaved. So, unfortunately, there is a case to be made that even playing the MCC version is not authentic. However, the differences are so minute that you're still getting the Halo experience. >> I think it's a fair point to bring up. Um, but it is it is but and and then there's also just bearing like I mean, you know, it's funny cuz like oh yeah, get MCC it's great. It's like bear in mind they [ __ ] up MCC MCC didn't work like at all for like several months. >> A year or two. No, it it was dysfunctional on Xbox Live for over a year. >> Yeah. like it's it was an incredibly dysfunctional broken port that they couldn't even man and and the reality is it's never fully been fixed. Um it's at a point now where it's it's like whatever okay you know it's all right >> but like it's never really truly been fixed which is very frustrating but I mean this is kind of the problem with backwards compatibility in general you know as as an issue. I will say as somebody who's played a lot of MCC and then also very recently gotten Xboxes and old CRTs and stuff to experience the originals, you're not missing much just by playing MCC. It's it the distinctions are so incredibly minor that you're not missing out. >> You got mouse and keyboard and frame rate and it works on modern systems and stuff and it's got the friends list and everything integrated. Just just do it. >> More fun with [ __ ] broken the freedom of the game. By the way, I asked for if he had done this cuz I had a I just had a thought when I was playing. I was like, "Wait a minute. I have a rocket launcher and grenades. Hang on. >> This shit's awesome." >> Yeah. Take my wthog home. >> Yeah, it's uh it's cool. I I liked when games gave you like the freedom to mess around with their uh with with how they work. And and I mean, you know, it's uh this is I feel like Halo is a good example of sort of the generational leap from um from fifth gen to sixth gen. You know, this definitely feels like it's a sixth gen game in the sense that it is like more >> complicated from a from a from a programming standpoint. >> Um but it's taken advantage of in the game, not just from a graphic standpoint, but from a design standpoint. >> The graphics is important to mention too because this was an early post 3D game. Um, 3D had very recently become a thing where you could render uh these types of 3D levels uh reliably on consumer hardware. >> What were you about to say? >> Well, it still shows in a few minutes because obviously as much as lots of people are nostalgic for it and as long as it is just objectively a brilliant game, it's there are problems with it which AI pathing isn't great all the time. Flood quite often struggle to jump past any overhanging lips for example. Um quite often they they do sort of struggle with doors and corridors a little bit. Not hugely yet, a little bit for now. Um and uh and you know there are there is room for improvement, but for the standards of the day, it was exceptional and still plays exceptionally well. You can find ways of cheesing it. Like the thing we just saw the final run toward the um toward toward the escape ship. Like without really meaning to, I just immediately doveetailed left and just sprinted the entire thing with no enemies cuz they hadn't put any there. And that's like that's actually something they did sort of fix with the later things. It's one of the only things they did fix. But even acknowledging that there are some problems with that, some checkpoints will be slightly too early. You rehear dialogue where you don't need to rehear dialogue and things like that. There has been 20 years since then. So um you know, anybody who acknowledged any problems at all during those 20 years knows what those problems are. And uh we've had a lot of time to consider them and you know, implement fixes and things like that. So I'm sure we're going to discuss how well that's been done. I I would say that the issues with Halo CE are so minor that it's not worth the the millions of dollars you would have to spend to make an entirely new game to justify actually >> unless you unless you were particularly desperate at the moment. >> Yeah. >> Unless you [ __ ] up for the last 15 years and losing 64% of the money that you've been investing and running your company at a 3% margin and ended up needing to fire thousands of people. If you're in that position, then yeah, you need to remake Halo CE because you're broke. >> Dude, it's it's crazy when you should plan that last. They ruined all the cutting. Anyway, I know. >> So, you know what? I figure that we can kick off the same way we did before, but this time we just we'll just do a good old right to left sort of >> what what do we think about Halo Campaign Evolved? >> Splatoon. >> Positivity over. >> All right. Yeah, we did. We did our We did our >> goodbye. Combat Evolved. >> Yeah. Well, we'll we'll return, I'm sure. Uh so campaign evolved. Um I don't have as say no nostalgic feelings particularly for the original Halo cuz I played it for the first time beginning last week. Um up until roughly the halfway point of the game, I would have said, "Yeah, this was a a waste of money." But it's not egregious in the sense that it functions for the most part. It's a downgrade still, but compared to a lot of other games I've played recently, a lot of other games we've played on stream for evap, I would more happily replay Campaign Evolve than I would Resident Evil 9, James Bond, Gollum, mixtape. Um, because the foundation of the game is so fantastically strong that >> it's really hard to [ __ ] up the core stuff. That's what I thought until roughly the halfway point. um the halfway point comes along and you can spot exactly the moment at which they did not have time to play test anything. You can tell exactly which levels were delivered late, which assets were delivered late, um which AI pathing had not been completed, which things play tested never even seen on completion. Um because it's basically from 343 Guilty Spark onwards, that's when it stops being sort of a generic downgrade and starts becoming to me at least a more exceptional downgrade where things just do not work. Now, I didn't stress test it hugely at the beginning. I stress tested it a little bit. There were basic fuckups going on. I think we might even see one roughly here where like there's the pipe under the pipe which if you drop down onto it um in original Halo you can you just die and on this one if you land perfectly in the middle you're fine. But then they've put random kill walls either side. It's such a clunky lazy [ __ ] way of doing it. And that sort of laziness is the thing that scales. Um it was already kind of like I could spot little bits cuz you can push keys all the way around the ship until he randomly hits a point where he despawns on the um the pillar of autumn at the beginning. And um but I thought that was like well you know as long as it's only that then this is going to be basically enjoyable. It still functions. The enemies basically work. There's some cheats. They've they've they've cut some corners. Um the ring is looks like [ __ ] Most of the graphics don't look as good. But you know beyond all of that it was still fun. It was just from the halfway point onwards that's that's when it started just become funny in the sense that there it's just broken. Important enemy types don't work. Um they cannot handle elevation. The flood have not they're not flood anymore in that they literally do not flood. the careful introduction of them in the original where you like the biggest difference between them and the Covenant is principally their numbers, their AI uh aggression, their threat detection, and their weapon types being that they are primarily melee and that's the new threat. In this one, they're introduced to shooting at you from the beginning in very short numbers. They come one at a time. They can't hit for [ __ ] Um, and so it's really with the introduction of the flood that everything goes downhill. I could carry on ranting, but I'm assuming we're doing a one minute rule and I've already broken that, so we'll come back to the rest. Uh, I'd still rather replay it than the other games I mentioned, but um it's it becomes a comedy from the halfway point. >> Random. >> Okay. So, um it it's funny here cuz I I I need I had a very similar experience to Splatoon and I need to find a different way of saying a very similar thing, but I've got a couple of things here. So, I'll start with what's better. Um I've got three bullet points that are better in this new one. I assume you guys agree, but maybe not. Graphical fidelity is obviously better. not like the art design and not how it affects the gameplay. Purely just talking about the quality of the graphics is it's better in the new one because it costs so much more and it's much newer. I'm I'm going to disagree just because it you it relies on stuff like DLSS and film grain and motion blur and all of this graphics technology that is muddying the image to such a degree that I would think for a game of 2026 this is not graphically impressive just because of how much they [ __ ] with the image compared to a game from 2001. So I understand if you're saying like there's more polygons but >> that's essentially what I'm saying. Yeah. But like, so the film grain kind of Well, I guess we'll get into it later, but the film grain did did bug me and I was amazed that you couldn't turn it off. >> Yes. >> Um, >> there's a lot of issues like that. >> Um, apart from that, the uh the Warthog, um, I thought it handles a little bit more like a functional vehicle rather than like one of those inflatable rings that you go on on like a speedboat, um, where you can actually kind of drive it. Uh, I was told platoon that you prefer the original version. Well, there is a reason for that, which is that I was trying to figure out what it was. We >> grabbed back and forth. >> Oh, sorry. >> Okay. Yeah. So, I I'll keep going. I'll keep going. Um, so my my fi my final point on what's better is that the muzzle on the Warthog gun, it heats up, and I thought that was good for conveying, you know, that it's a very highowered weapon. So, apart from that, um, my first stream I played the the first prologue mission and then the first half of the main campaign finishing at the end of Assault on the Control Room, and I was like, it's obviously worse than the original, but I don't hate it. The gameplay is generally working because like, aside from the constant handholding, it is just it's a redo of an extremely solid base game. There's only so bad it can get. Um, then in my second stream, I saw how bad it can get. Uh, it was the latter half of the game, um, followed by the last two prologue missions, which were also terrible. And [ __ ] hell, it was it was dreadful. There were so many bugs, as I'm sure we're going to get into, and some of them were very, very funny. Um, punishing difficulty spikes um on the bonus missions in particular. Um, all of the most like egregious voice acting flubs I thought were in the latter half of the game. Uh, not that it was good in the first half, but it was really bad in the second half. Um, the general problems with the lighting are so much more apparent in the latter half of the game, and that cemented this as pretty awful rather than just kind of meh. Um, the game treats the player like an idiot repeatedly, which is fine if the player is an idiot, but it also means that Cortana is treating Chief like an idiot, which I didn't really like. Um, yeah, that's pretty much it. >> I'm a barbarian. >> Hey, Chief. Oh, no. I'm not going to. We We'll save that for later. >> Oh, we'll get there, I'm sure. >> Uh, rags. >> Um, so it's like minute of overall thoughts. Is that what we were kind of got lost along the way listening to everybody? So, >> yeah. Yeah. The sort of your summary of your thoughts. >> Um, my obviously uh the first time I played it was like weirdly the most I guess the most positive I was about it because it was a new experience. I was really trying to go in with an open mind and staying staying staying positive, positive vibes, sending positive vibes your way. Um, I was sort of taking it all in, seeing what was different. And it was and it was new. And I guess I had a relatively like bug-free experience, at least the first time through, which did not, you know, maintain itself. And ultimately, you were I think one of the reasons it might have it might have felt most positive at first was because even though it's a remake, it plays very much like a remaster. And we'll get to it in a sense because so much of in part in particular the levels are essentially very close to being onetoone with the the original despite being a remake and and it has all the changes gameplay and everything on top of all that. But it does kind of it does it is at its most positive when you're experiencing it, I guess, for the first time. But the more I played it and the more that I tried to fool around with it and the more that I realized, you know, the more stuff I figured I was able to do. Um, and once the novelty wore off, the the the less I thought about the game, um, the the stream that I did on Legendary was was quite a negative experience. Um, and then going through on the remix legendary was even more of a negative experience. I never see myself playing this game for funsies ever again. Um, unless I'm trying to get footage of something for whatever reason. Um, but yeah, I I everything I feel like probably 95% of the positive things that I could say about this game are the things that it just took from the game that it's remaking. There's a few things that I like in terms of changes, but pretty much all of them are like little aesthetic things, some effects, little details like that, but that's pretty bad when you consider that this is supposed to be a remake. And virtually all of the positive things are like little graphical things or little tiny details. It's it's really abysmal, especially considering that the studio that makes this game is Halo Studios, the game that is devoted entirely to making Halo experiences and Halo games. So yeah, my my thoughts are not positive. >> Uh Patrician. >> Yeah. So, uh, I just want to clarify, I might be the only person to say this. Um, I did not go into this with an open mind. I did not go into this with good faith. Uh, I am a grifter. Uh, I hate Halo and I hope this franchise dies and gets retired because I'm tired of giving these people more chances. Um, with all that said, uh, was there anything I thought was positive about it? I saw this as a chance to kind of equalize this, add some features that became staples of the franchise later on, or if not staples, at least make it more consistent with the original trilogy. The go-to example I would give is vehicle boarding. It is not in the original CE. It's a new mechanic. I think it's all right. Um, I don't really think the levels were designed around it. The wraith is not particularly good. you can usually get the ghosts anyways and the banshees tend to break assault on the control room. Um, suicide grunts are cool, I guess. Uh, the main thing that I like, and unfortunately this is because I'm a massochist. Uh, I am a big fan of the Halo 4 Spartan Ops mode, but mostly because it's a batshit, insane, stupid ass uh game mode that is so tacky and tasteless in the way that it's created that it could be appreciated ironically. And the remix mode of ha halo campaign evolved is the closest thing to a sequel we have gotten to Spartan Ops. It is uh utterly bereft of any kind of competent design. You are not going to have fair encounters. You are going to get it jumped by sword elites around every [ __ ] corner. >> There is a tiny >> Yeah. >> Um it's like when they it's like when they they mix up everything. So they change enemies. It is a game mode that forces you to have three skulls. One of these skulls randomizes the enemy factions. So you can experience flood on the first level. Uh the second skull makes it so that there is no infighting. Now for most of the game that's fine because infighting was not something that happens until uh I guess technically three for three guilty spark, but it's more associated with two betrayals. Uh once you get to two betrayals, you realize how bad of an idea disabling infighting is because there are encounters that have a few dozen enemies and if they're not killing each other, you have to kill all of them. >> They're killing you. >> Yeah. >> And so there was a part of my stream where I was sitting at the back of the map with a ghost slowly picking off enemies because I had no other weapons to be able to use and there were no less than four dozen enemies I needed to kill to progress. Um, I don't think that the art style changes are not appreciated. The story changes, however minimal they are, are not appreciated. Um, the forced new graphics technology. Someone said you don't have to use DLSS, but you are forced to use an upscaling system. This game looks like how it would feel to play someone else's stream, if that makes sense. the it feels like there's shitty bit rate where my internet connection is messed up >> except scaling >> in the settings uh when I was kind of exploring the settings was the the way that it the way that it describes in fact the way that it describes upscaling kind of leads you to believe that it just it it's an inaccurate sort of portrayal because they'll say something along the lines of like choose this and it's like ultra or whatever but it's just like native resolution or something like that. But you assume, oh, ultra that means it's like high or oh no, it was the other way. It was I think it was like what the preset for ultra upscaling was like 75% of your native. So it's like why? Who the [ __ ] wrote it this way? Oh, you would assume that ultra upscaling is higher than what I have. But no, it's lower. 25% lower, significantly lower than what your native is. >> Um, >> now I was just typing. I've not been typing this entire time. Apparently, there is a loud clicking sound because that is that is coming across on the stream. >> Well, I am not hearing it in Discord. So, >> Discord will nullify it. And that's why if it is Mer, his light won't show up. >> That's probably me. My bad. >> Yeah. So, >> I'm trying to fetch everybody's stuff so I can show it when I need to. >> Yeah. But yeah, so um I am just vehemently against the concept of remakes. I've held that position for years. It is the culture eating itself. It is 343 trying to get a quick check. You should not buy it. You should not support it. This company needs to go out of business. Thank you for attending my TED talk. >> Mic drop. >> What do you What do you think of the remake? Uh, so I don't know if maybe it was much worse for me because I was uh I was just doing a lot of testing before I even got to play this on stream of just trying to get it to run well, but like it just seemed atrociously optimized. Um, even on stream, whenever a couple more enemies appear in any given situation, it just [ __ ] crashed. And it became a game of me needing to kill as much as I could, as fast as I could to gain frames back, which, uh, not many games provide such a fun mechanic. But you know, broadly I I forget who said it, but like there was an air of well this is fun enough, this is functional enough, but there was a smoldering hatred that just kept rising like exponentially with more and more that I played. Um, nearly every graphical change just only had me asking questions and then every mechanical change was just frustrating the [ __ ] hell out of me. I felt like a psychiatric patient trying to recall like I was like, "Wait a minute, was it always like this or did they do something here?" And then if they did do something like here, didn't it feel like this? And then I'd be like, "Yeah, it was. Fuck." Like when you look back. Um it's only malicious little [ __ ] changes that that I hate. But you know, um the I I'd have to just call it like the AI. It's so bad. And from what I understand, like it's just it's pulled from places like like I was about to say future or I guess it would be the past Halo games but the future of this timeline if you will and then but the impression you get is that they're like the models of the future but that they've been given like Tetris block AI and that's about as far as it goes. um with like the music's not even been properly um put in broadly which is frustrating because it's like the best sort of balm against this whole experience just hearing some of the tracks and being like a there it is and you be like wait but why are you here? It's it's like um it's like talking to an old friend but then you realize it's a serial killer wearing this ski and you're just like oh man this just isn't the same like my friend. >> Yeah. uh the sheer number of times I was able to break this [ __ ] game with just doing basic things and not the fun kind of break. The break where it'll completely reset or have you go through walls or the AI get stuck or, you know, nothing like the the previous where I was I was having fun trying to find ways to like stretch the game's abilities. uh the the voice lines. It's like a Frankenstein combination of original lines but then alternative originals or brand new versions with the same actors of the originals or just new completely all together in all different places creates a wonderful experience. Um, but I guess it it became really funny to play because of how much you can understand, especially when you get to the prequel levels, like just how much the people who make this have no idea how to design Halo despite the fact that they have everything they need to do that. And then I don't know, I was just trying to think like minor positives I think at this point are a concession of this thing's existence, which isn't owed to it as far as I'm concerned. It's it's it's just it's just a garish befouled profane homunculus and it's em emblematic of uh of the whole era we're in this this horrible horrible era of media. I want it dead dead in a hole and I'm >> you are so kind to it. >> I'm tired tired of the [ __ ] >> I think that you you are being too generous. That's not negative enough. >> I can't take this [ __ ] no more, man. as a famous gamer once said. >> That's about it. Yeah. I don't like it. >> Oh, yep. >> John, what do you think? >> Uh, I didn't like this. I'm usually guy who's like forgiving with [ __ ] and like man, nah, dude. >> I mean, we got like okay to poor performance for one. What? like generally like and you know the original is just like like at during my streams I had so many people like understandably like so what do you think and I'd always say play the original >> like you you get a superior product with the original. This feels like they just traced over the original game and then made it worse and then put it out and it's like why why even bother? I mean, I had so I I had so little faith going into this, but um I did try to keep an open mind with this. It's just like, okay, maybe they did some good [ __ ] with this. Let's see. And uh no, it's just with every beat around every corner, it's just like, nah, the original did this better. like the original had this like uh more of a like a vision and like capability and drive behind it like in regard to the original team that developed the first Halo Bungie the actual Bungie. Um and it's like it this one sucks. I mean the the the Unreal Engine I mean there's there's two there's a couple sides to that. It's like two of the cores of the Unreal Engine, Unreal Engine 5 is like the lumin and nanite technology and it's and it's very inherently very demanding on hardware. Um, but it's not always Unreal Engine's Unreal Engine 5's fault when like a game on Unreal Engine 5 runs badly. Sometimes it's on the developer end because they don't know how to take full advantage of the engine or like they uh I think uh >> yeah there's games that run on it that look good. >> Yeah, >> there are or and they run well. I I think a mistake that happens frequently is that the developers will tr will optimize for high hardware to make it look as good as possible and then towards the end of their their develop development period they'll then scale it down for low-end hardware when they should be going the other way around. They should be optimizing for low-end hardware initially and then towards the end scaling up for the higherend systems. I mean, I have a I think I have a fairly decent system. Like, I got an i9 Intel processor. I got a 4070 Ti super graphics card and like 64 gigs of RAM. And I feel like I should have been getting better performance that I was like, I think the only times I was getting over 60 frames per second was in interior spaces where there wasn't much there wasn't many bells and whistles or explosions or particle effects or anything like that or reflections and stuff. Um, >> yeah, it was it was kind of crazy how bad the performance was considering what we were getting and what I had. >> Yeah, while I was streaming, I knew like, okay, I'm capturing gameplay and broadcasting over Streamlabs, so it's like, okay, that's going to take some CPU and GPU, but like uh I I did some tests not doing any of those things, and it was still not impressive. Um, and so like you're just you're basically getting getting an inferior version of the original game with an Unreal Engine 5 layer of makeup on top of it that is not worth the performance cost and it's it's just a worse experience. So, and then you got you got no multiplayer, no forge mode, no theater mode, >> firefight, no theater. the game is annoyingly selective about what it brings from other Halo games and what it doesn't. Like for instance, they'll bring in the SMG, but then there's no dual wielding. So then and and then that touches on an issue with weapon balancing, which I'm sure we'll discuss. >> Um I'll I'll end it there. It's play the original. The original's better. >> You know what? I'm inclined to agree. I [ __ ] hate this. Like it sucks. Um, I think that I I basically believe that uh in every way that matters, just about every single aspect of this remake is inferior to the original. Just about every single aspect. Um, the fact that it doesn't I bought on PlayStation 5 cuz that's really funny to me that you can buy Hello on PlayStation 5 just sort of tells you about the decline of >> this series and Xbox as a whole. Um, >> but uh, you know, when you're buying it on console, it's oh well, it's on console, you know, it's it's going to run well. Well, that's what you can expect from consoles that you can just put it in and play and it works. It doesn't like it doesn't [ __ ] run well. Um, which to me is is is like so dire. Putting to one side everything else that could be said about the creative choices that were made by 343 with this game. Uh, if you make a remake that just runs worse than the original, the [ __ ] are you doing? And it really does. like particularly on legendary when I was going through on legendary on um on uh on on um the Moore uh it was like collapsing absolutely collapsing falling apart right in front of my eyes. It was like the whole screen had been rubbed with sandpaper. The the enemy characters and like models in the game were running at a lower fra frame rate. It started to drop to like two frames per second. Um that's like the worst that it got. This is like a persistent issue throughout the game is that it doesn't even [ __ ] run properly, which um if you have a remake that runs worse than the original, that is like a critical failure. Um and then of course putting that >> uh what >> just I just want to add a small note. Not only does it run worse than the original, we're talking about a 25-year-old game. It runs worse than the original when the original came out. >> Yep. No, it's just uh it it runs like complete [ __ ] Um, and I mean the the game is like broken to the core. Um, part part of that is is just broad technical issues in general. The AI is absolute dog [ __ ] But like a lot of it does stem from what should have been front of mind and kind of should be like with all remakes in general, but certainly with a company like 343 um with the track record they have, which is I don't know that I'm interested in what 343 Industries thinks needs to be changed or tweaked or fixed in Halo. Um and and and that even then I'm not interested I'm not really interested in risking even things that on their face would seem like the correct decisions of yeah well you can add hijacking or yeah you can add like a few of the the weapons that were added in later. Um I'm not you know there is a delicate balance when it comes to pretty much any video game but particularly when we're talking about good video games that you can't just like arbitrarily [ __ ] around with it and add new [ __ ] in. Just throw it in and expect it to work. Um, and I think I think you can you can see that as uh being true with many of the issues in this game. This incredibly haphazard approach to making changes, throwing in new elements, uh throwing in the design of um of certain enemies from different older Halo games that are not compatible with the level design of this game. Um, and then of course this is particularly pronounced with their new levels that are just absolute piss. absolute [ __ ] dog [ __ ] especially on legendary. >> Just ab totally horrendous. Um, this is worthless. I recommend it to nobody. Um, I will never play it again. Um, this is uh it it it is um it is a disaster. There is basically nothing about this game that I think is better than the original. Um, I think it's I think it is um I think it's 343's worst game. >> Wow. >> Which is uh quite remarkable, I would say. So, you know, I guess we can start sort of delving into why that's the case. And I figure that the best way to do that is to sort of try and break it down into into topic by topic. Um, I I figure we should probably lead with uh with with gameplay and like design as a conversation before getting to uh getting to some of the decisions that they made with the story, some of the changes that they made that are that are just, you know, just so fantastic. Um, and I think probably the one that that that stands out as like the the right place to start given something that was kind of an undertone of a lot of uh the things that you guys said, which is like, well, you know, it is Halo at its core and how much how much work was that doing in terms of um in terms of maybe delaying the uh the inevitable realizations about this game would be uh just the general level design and encounters of both the uh the the remake um levels like the the remade levels of the original as well as the prequel levels. Um and just sort of generally how well any of this translates. Um I think that the prequel levels stand out pretty obviously for what their issues are. But in terms of like the the level design for the for the actual, you know, campaign itself, uh I am like broadly dissatisfied with it overall. Like it's it's just um there there are so many there are so many instances where the changes that are made as far as I'm concerned are like obviously for the worst. I think like the library is one of the clearest examples of that. I think the library is obviously worse than in the original. >> Yeah. And that's its first big departure really when it comes to levels from the original. Well, so so he's talking strictly level design because of course like a lot of what damages these levels as far as I'm concerned too is the change in mechanics and approach. Not just with like >> with you know what actually you know what that that's a fair point. Um I think the first thing that we should probably talk about is sprint. I think that's actually like might be the most important thing to talk about that can kind of explain everything that comes afterward. May I say >> could because my opening uh gambit for this because I'm kind of actually specifically interested is because I've watched um pieces of everyone playing this but um I watched all of you playing on legendary rags so I was curious how uh it sort of worked out as well as this is going >> different pieces of Well, I've watched your stream I watched more by happen stance than anyone else's. Um, so, so I don't know what your opinion is currently cuz I didn't manage to watch you playing it with like Patricia and uh Patrician and everything, but the uh I I come away with the perspective and um I don't know if this will be a bit fun or controversial that uh sprint might be the most damaging element that they've added to this whole game to [ __ ] up everything. Meanwhile, I I I heard you say a couple of times that you thought like sprint was borderline innocuous and non-effective. Um, >> I think for me the closest I probably said to that would be like when I was trying to figure out how fast sprint actually is and how like if if you like if you're moving forward and then you sprint, when you take away the weird waggling of the arms that they give Chief when he sprints, it doesn't feel like it's that much faster at all. It feels like it's just barely slow, like like less than 10% slower. But that clearly adds up when you actually go into the gameplay and you realize how much you can sprint past things and sprint away from things. And enemies that are designed to come and get you can be just rendered obsolete by simply sprinting away from them. Um, I mean, we were like even like if I don't know if you saw, but like through keys in particular, but the ability on legendary to just sprint past most of the level >> was kind of like it is kind of absurd. >> Well, legendary >> if I Well, that that would be exactly what my assessment would be that all of these levels have been significantly [ __ ] by the choice to uh add sprint. Oh, why isn't that working? [ __ ] Well, because one of the things I've uh I was testing out was because it hit me on a heroic for sure, >> but like even on legendary, which I I everyone here beaten on legendary or I don't think everyone has, right? >> I've >> um just you get some interesting revelations because of the fact that you start having to really >> Yeah, you got to work with the game to some extent and then you can find its holes in a sense. I I will say I have done a playthrough with sprint and a playthrough without sprint and it is a negligible difference in every respect except for the skipping encounters. And I would argue that's just because the AI pathf finding is [ __ ] and it cannot respond to you doing that. So it's not even that sprint is the issue. It's that the AI cannot punish you for attempting to sprint past the encounter beyond they just burst you with [ __ ] tons of damage. Yeah. >> Well, that's that's that's everything. It's like it's not necessarily sprint. It's not necessarily AI. It's not necessarily how the levels are built or the damages or the way that they aim. Like it's it's all the different thing. I think if you prevent the player from sprinting, the game gets exponentially harder. >> Yes. In the respect that you just can't skip encounters >> otherwise I think it's negligers. It's like that is kind of because I I basically totally agree with Mhler on this. I think that sprint might be the single biggest issue with this game. The fact that you can require a complete the levels >> like and it's not even cuz the thing is is that I don't know exactly what the number is for how much faster it is than running but like it is fast enough that you can trivialize pretty much every single um especially once you get in the second half of the game um you can trivialize any encounter just by running through it. A lot of the time it's kind of your better option. You might die a couple of times if you try to run through some of these levels, but like a lot of the time it's actually a better prospect. Like you're more likely to get stuck by facing them outright than just sprinting past them, running past every single encounter in the game. And this is just something that you can't do this in the original. You just can't you can't do it nearly as reliably um in the original game. You you'll die. You will just get killed. perspective is is it a good faith look at the game to be like constantly thinking can I skip this encounter can I skip this encounter I think it speaks to a deeper problem I don't think you can diagnose sprint as being the core issue when >> if there is a desire among players to skip encounters that kind of says more than you're able to do it technically tactical decision >> in Halo >> yeah sure but if you're wanting to skip the encounters then I think that says that the gameplay is dreadful in a way beyond just like the sprinting [ __ ] with it. >> That could be said for sure. But like if I want to do things to skip content, but I still can't do it because the game is designed well enough to prevent me from doing that. It it's almost like, well, we still got to take it back to the fact that I can. Not whether or not I want to, but the fact that it's just possible. >> I know that in this fight at any point if I need to, I can just run past the enemies. >> Sure. Well, I mean to Patrician's point though, the original Halo, there are a whole bunch of optional encounters that I optionally opted into because I wanted to. In this game, there's a whole bunch which are optional, which I chose to opt out of, and sprint was just a tool with which to opt out. I I to be honest, I I agree that you probably shouldn't be doing most of your encounters as optional. I do think that that is bad design. I don't think sprint's necessarily the problem with that, but if you're going to add sprint, then you do need to make a whole bunch of downstream changes, which they didn't bother to do. So the problem there is the devs are lazy [ __ ] Not that sprint is a bad idea. I mean I am broadly and in favor of sprint anyway just because I I think properly executed it can aid your sense of immersion when you are in a corridor with no enemies and you're kind of lightly jogging. Then you suddenly get jumped by a whole bunch of people. Your natural response as a person is to say right I want to be moving faster. So adding sprint there can aid your immersion in the game. It can like it has a whole knockon effects for tension for narrative pacing for basically everything. But you need to be aware of those changes you're making. And I don't even know how difficult it would have been for them to integrate it properly. A lot of it's enemy placement. A lot of it's enemy accuracy because of them utterly [ __ ] >> You can't one for one take the like enemy placement of the original level and then add in sprint. That's why I'm confused why there is a skull that disables sprint. Something that you could just change the keybind for when it really should have been there is a skull that unlocks sprint. And so for the people who want to have sprint in the game play, they can just enable that skull. And before someone says, "But there's no skulls that have positive effects." That's not even true. There are absolutely skulls that have positive effects. So >> there's always been skulls that have positive effects pretty much. um the like you I'd say that the you've got you got a big problem essentially in terms of the implementation of sprint that was like entirely predictable which is that you've put it in a game with a bunch of enemies that are not designed to deal with you at any point that you want running way faster than they can handle. They just can't handle it. They don't know what to do. Especially when especially when you've got the flood and the covenant fighting each other. And of course in all of the games there is some degree to which you can use that to your advantage. But like even in levels where you're just dealing with one or the other like you can run through it's not just the flood it's every level cuz as you can see right now looks like Mhler is just completely running through uh three levels that though. I mean no there are yeah most and basically no enemy can properly handle using sprint but most enemies in this game struggle handling you standing still. >> So that's not a problem with sprint. That's a problem with one of the many invisible lines they're not allowed to cross. That's certainly the >> case like an inch above where they're currently standing. They get stuck. But it it might be worth stressing the fact that this this is an important way they remake. It's not just a reskin. What they've done here is had to recreate a whole bunch of stuff from scratch. Everything was within their control. They they have the horizontal and the vertical that they can choose what they're doing with enemies. They can choose how they handle your movement speed. They can choose where they put them. They have to do all of this when they remake everything in the first place. They didn't choose to do that, which isn't the fault of players sprinting. That's the fault of the devs. >> I disagree. Halo Combat Evolved is incompatible with Sprint, and their version of Combat Evolved with Campaign Evolved is even more incompatible with Sprint. Like, it's uh >> you would have to remake the You'd have to have it be a proper remake, not a cowardly remake like this. >> If you are curious, there is a mod for the original Combat Evolved that adds sprint. So, if you're curious how it impacts that um >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, because that's the thing, right? any any game you can add or take away any given mechanics. We're going to have to get into weapons at some point probably, but uh especially cuz again this is legendary difficulty and like the the flood especially I think are even significantly worse and I think it seems like from what people have talked about they've noticed that as well on the front of >> the original flood the conceit about it was it's all about movement control. Your the way that you are handling the horde of flood coming after you the skill of expression of that is how you move. And so when you add this new dynamic of moving without compensating with the flood for it, it just [ __ ] up everything. >> Oh yeah. >> Then yeah, >> sprint like murders 343 guilty spark. It ends up making the level. And this is the thing. I don't think this is especially like well you knew how to do this or you're like look at this bit. >> Yeah, but this is enemy AI. This isn't sprint. They're just walking past you. That's why I disagree with the it's the core issue when I think it is an exacerbation exacerbates the core issue. >> Yeah. But if you let's say made the AI way better so that they account for sprint. It's like yeah but that accounts for almost every problem that relates to all different kinds of like you can make the enemy AI better for how the levels are designed or you can make them better for what uh awkward imbalances that have been created by the weapon damage or availability. Or you could do it to account for sprint. What I'm saying is a single simple decision that has now it's done serious damage to the like base architecture that they've copied over, but also the ones that they've added. It's like uh such a simple decision. It's called immense damage throughout the whole game. >> It has, but I'm wondering whether we're maybe getting a little bit stunned by the the idea that this is a cool mechanic. I think what we've actually seen in those clips is the actual culprit. So enemy AI is is of course appalling. sprint they haven't optimized for. But notice when you're running through and sprinting all of the sprinting through all those encounters, you're taking damage, you're losing shield, you're losing health, and there is absolutely no cost or consequence because that's going to regenerate in the next 5 seconds. >> I I would say the regenerating health is a bigger contribute to this poor game cycle than sprint because again, you can play this without sprint. It's the same exact [ __ ] problems with the tedious gameplay. So >> like would it be fair to say that the reason why it feels a little bit which is larger pacing >> pretty much. Um but like the reason so in the OG where you don't have sprint the the game encourages player freedom in so many ways that if you skip something it kind of feels like well yeah if you can work out how to do this and not die then like you go for it. Whereas in the new one it just feels like well I could just press the sprint button and I'll be okay. But I I think I agree with Patrician that it's not just the sprint button that is causing that problem. It's that compounded with the terrible AI plus the regenerating health. It's all three of them going together that causes that. >> There's a line of thought, right? So like when you're dealing with, take for example the James Bond first light enemy AI. So a lot of people are like, why are you making fun of them when that's in loads of games, for example, just walking them around a table and they can't get you? And it's like, well, problem is and and say for example, they say this is in Dark Souls. Like if you're dealing with a hollow in Dark Souls that can't get you because you're walking around a tree, it's like but yeah, but like contextually it is a mindless being that's basically like borderline not even human anymore. or I can't even think versus a person. >> Like, you know, when we contextualize all of this sort of stuff, the flood to me are fine in terms of like how they behave if they come across a bit stupid or mindless or walk into some things, certain places. The ones in this like because of how fast I can move, they're barely even ready like to exist on me in terms of like each level. I'm willing to agree it's a compounding issue of other elements as well, but sprint like is a surgical strike to how this game can even function. Can I >> as well? >> Yeah, >> it's just a minor comment. Um, 343 has always excelled when they're able to steal Bungie's homework. That's why the Covenant in their games is always the strongest enemy force. So, when they insert new enemies, they suck. There has never been a Bungie Halo game in which you could sprint and the flood were enemies, which is why there's no bungee designed for them to steal of an enemy that punishes you for sprinting past them. >> Right. thing is though to add on to that is you can do this on silent cgrapher as well. >> Yeah. Well, obviously I was gonna say this is the most damage >> in the clearest way. I think you can do this even in levels where it's just fighting the covenant. And something that's worth adding as well is the nature of the strategies that you can develop just because of the way that sprint works in the game. Something that I noticed is if you're sprinting and you keep jumping cuz when you get hit it tries to knock you out of sprint. If you keep a good way of preserving your momentum by the time that you hit the ground, you should be able to instantly sprint and kind of like you'll have a minimal disruption to um to and that and that's not an AI that's not like an AI problem. That is just that is how sprint works in conjunction with the nature of how damage um takes you out of sprint. If you just keep jumping by the time that you land, you can more or less keep that momentum going. Um and that's just something you can do. And it's not it's not like a complex strategy or anything. It's something you just figure out as you're like, "Fuck this. I don't want to deal with this." And you just want to run through the level. >> Something else you could blame. >> Do not take you out of sprint, but a lot of other stuff does. So, it's kind of weird discovering what you're allowed to get hit by and what not. >> Something else you can blame here is the markers. Because another thing that makes 343 Guilty Spark like a scary level or atmospheric experience is not exactly knowing in this maze where you're supposed to go. But this is a direct line that tells me exactly where to go. plus sprint. Plus, by the way, like I said, this is legendary, so I don't even know that regen health is going to be super relevant to this conversation because it's the least amount of health I could run on a difficulty. Like, it's >> Yeah, like obviously that could be lingering >> you would still take chip damage that would punish you though and then it would reward the cycle less and less. >> But look at this. It's not like I'm regularly at one HP. >> You would be you would be down to like six bolts of health instead of eight. And then like the next time you did it, you'd be down to four. And it's >> No, I know. I know how that works. But you what I'm trying to say is like you can see from this footage even that I'm I'm doing extremely well considering that even I still think sprint is the main culprit. If you remove sprint from me in this run like these guys get out well before I get to them. Yeah, when you weigh them next to each other, if >> that is a sprint problem as far as I'm concerned, those guys, >> the way the way I would probably put it, which I assume might be the same as what Mhler is, is like obviously obviously all of these other problems exist and are dire like the AI problem in particular, but it's the idea that like sprints is like the final thing that collapses the game. It's like the thing that once you put it in there, everything absolutely unravels spectacularly. >> It's constant too, right? like this. It's the one mechanic that I am able to use 100% of the time and it's constantly showing me just how much it damages the core. >> It's the game. >> It's the fact that it's cuz it's one thing of like skipping over it. It's just it is it is often the best strategy. It's not even a matter of like whether or not you know >> you would say I don't hate shooting things in this game, you It's fine. >> Yeah, >> but like but why bother if if it's the least like if it's not even It reminds me it's like in Bond where it's like oh yeah do stealth. Why? It's like not even rewarding. >> And this would be like part of the conversation about the nature of like developers need to make choices about what features they do and don't put in the game. Because the reality is if you give players the ability to negate challenges so effortlessly, they're just going to do it. They're going to do it and they're not even going to notice that they're doing it and they're not even going to notice that it's making for a worse experience for them. >> Okay. But have you considered that someone might feel anxiety if they press left shift and nothing happens? >> No. I mean, of course, >> I think it's fair to make fun of, but at the same time, it is annoyingly. It reminds me of the yellow paint [ __ ] Every once in a while, I'm like, okay, I get it. Loads of people like this [ __ ] But >> I think you can see >> throughout the history of 343 the complicated relationship they've had with sprint. And the complicated relationship is they've always wanted to put it in, but they've had to deal with the reality that there was a conversation to be had with Halo games regarding sprint. And so you can see in Halo 4 they in Halo 4 they just put it in and it pissed a lot of people off. And then in Halo 5 they're like well we're keeping it so we need to find like some sort of way to essentially appease them. and and and the solution they came up with, which to be fair, it's not a bad one, is um is that when you run your your shields don't recharge. And then Infinite kind of had like, well, we'll make it so that it's not as fast, but it will tie into momentum things. But it's always working backwards from [ __ ] we just want sprint no matter what. Like, we're just locked in that sprint is going to be in the game, and we need to find ways to make people shut the [ __ ] up and leave us alone about it. That's like their relationship with Sprint. Plenty of games manage to integrate sprint absolutely fine without any of these problems. Most games I would say yeah if just as a pure hypothetical let's say Bungie when they made the original Halo managed to introduce and and include sprint as a function. Do you think any of these problems that you're seeing here would have been in that game? >> No, because they did. that it was Halo Reach and the way it was balanced was that it would only work for about six or eight seconds >> and it was an opportunity cost if you mean that you didn't have all the other things too armor lock or other abilities >> you need to make decisions about how you're going to balance they didn't but those are sprint problems still like I would say >> and I I asked Mer for a clip of him playing on the library I don't care what difficulty it's on um if the question is Did they design the levels around it? We should probably take a look at some of the levels they did make that are new because, you know, this is a problem of Halo CE was not designed around sprint. Okay, well that makes sense. You can sprint past all the Halo CE levels really well. But then they have these new levels where they know that sprint is going to be in the game when they are doing all the enemy encounter placements and what have you. So, I would think that a good demonstration of why sprint is a necessary mechanic would be present in these new levels. >> Well, so what what I would say in terms of the way that they try to deal with sprint as a problem in those levels is number one, put you in massive open spaces where you can be exposed to fire from all kinds of directions that's difficult to deal with. And number two, that your progress in the level is gated by Johnson. Johnson determines whether you get to progress, which means a lot of the areas you have to kill everything. You have no choice but to. That's how they deal with it. Whereas in Combat Evolved, that is not the design in many instances. In many instances, you don't have to kill everything to get the the level to progress. And that's like the go-to formula for those levels. So, sprint helpfulness in terms of essentially skipping substantial amounts of content is negated, but not through anything related to sprint. It's just it's hey, you're not allowed to go that way until you kill everything. Sorry, go kill everything. >> For the example that was just on screen, this elevator sequence, there is a kill box uh at the bottom of the elevator if before you clear the flood out. So, you're not even allowed to like just jump down to the elevator and then jump down to the bottom floor. You have to do the encounter the way that they wanted to. So, even on the library where they can't lean on Johnson gating you from speed blitzing the entire level, they still have uh tools in place where they're trying to punish this. Whereas, like when they're quote unquote faithfully recreating the original levels, um they just don't have those tools. And so, >> the prequel levels are immensely accentuated of this. Like just a series of arenas where they lock you in a room, >> arenas. Yes. Kill everything. And then Johnson will say, "All right, let's go. Let me press the button that lets you go." >> Whereas, yeah, the the the philosophy present in the original levels is that you can control your pace. And then 343 said, "Yeah, you can control your pace. Here's Sprint, too, and none of the enemies can deal with it. They just cannot deal with it." >> I actually think I remember them not dealing with it in the prequel because there's one of the big arena levels where it's ringed by snipers and as long as So, you can It's two levels. the ring around the the big sort of central area. Um there's snipers on the elevated ring. If you run around and you kill those snipers and then you just keep sprinting around that elevated ring, you can just wait till Johnson kills everybody on the ground and then you win and it's dumb cuz they still can't hit you. The only people who could hit you a sprint was with the snipers. But um but I still maintain this is entirely a problem of them not knowing how to code enemies properly. >> Again though, the enemies would be immensely benefited if I couldn't sprint. And the thing is, AI is all relative to me. They're so goofy and nonsense in this, but in certain circumstances, they would be just fine, if not good, if they were put into places that they can actually handle. Cuz this was a this was a criticism I had brought up about certain things. And the reply I got from I forget who was like, "It's not that the AI is bad, it's that the level design is bad because the AI can't deal with this level." And it's like, okay, you know, like we can at that point, >> we can move different things around all the time. I just think that it's uh and and it's only at the top of the list, but the list is long and it's full of terrors of like >> and it's that's the thing is and it's will be I think innately tricky to separate these things out anyway because all of these changes they've made compound I for me the biggest difference the thing that motivated the biggest difference in play style is regenerating health. >> But even where like level design it's not not even just a problem with sprint so I think it might even be around this area. I don't know all the names of the enemies. What are the big um the flood versions of the big guys with the tank forms. >> So, they introduced them here, which they're not as far as I could recall in the original. >> They're not in the original, >> but the entire the entire place is a giant ring and you don't have to sprint away from them. I just joged away from them and was just going round and round and round and round and round and round and round just to see if they could actually deal with anything I was doing. Not sprinting, just running normally and they couldn't. Was I whittle down the occasionally with health cuz someone spawned behind me? Yes. Did it matter? No, cuz health regenerates. Um, if I sprinted through people, I think the first version you s that you showed earlier, you actually would have died on the elevator cuz you took some damage before you got there and then you took quite a lot of damage as soon as you got to the elevator. I think you would have died and respawned at the checkpoint. You would have died even sprinting all the way through that edge case. You might not have. It's kind of It still doesn't work. >> You You think I don't take issue with regen health? >> Oh, no. I'm sure you do. But what I'm saying is I I think that's a bigger problem because that changes the entire psychology of everything you do in the game. I described like the the nice flow state of original Halo earlier. This one's not a nice flow state. This is a brain turn your brain off thing. I just smashed my head repeatedly into encounters until I got through them. There's no incentive for me to learn because like I fine, I I can go and make a sandwich while my health comes back occasionally and then I'm done. >> Yeah, I think the fundamental disagreement is that we're just conflicting over what is the biggest problem here? >> What provides your biggest mistake allowance basically in this game? And there's a couple of different things. I think it's >> I would never advocate for the whole you control what buttons you press design mentality. Adding a mechanic and then saying well it's optional. That's not an excuse. >> That said that I'm coming up with this example not to defend that. What I'm saying is if you had played the game without sprints, you would have realized that yes, skipping the encounters is a problem, but sprint was not what is ruining the encounters. Sprint is not what is making you want to skip the encounters in the first place. And that's why I don't I cannot consider it to be the biggest issue because the game still [ __ ] sucks even when you turn off the sprint. >> Like I I the thing is is that that being the case like I mean of cuz yeah there there's various problems with the game but it's almost like it's it's not like what's causing you to do it. It's like that's that's like fine as sort of a thing cuz I hate this [ __ ] game. It's more so just like I can do that. I can do it and I don't even have to try very hard to do it. It's an option that's available to me. so I can take it. Um, and when I do, everything collapses. Everything just falls apart right in front of your eyes. >> There's a comparison. >> If they haven't spoken it up yet, >> let's just ask John. Is sprint or regenerating health the bigger deal? And then we can move on because we've all made our positions rather clear. I think regardless of what the biggest problem is, like the like movement speed is such a core thing to any game's design cuz like that needs to be determined in relation with everything else. Like it's it's even broader than just a simple like sprint function. Like how fast can you move? And then sprint is just like an temporary amplification of that movement speed. And um you diagetically like as that character being in that space in that story, I have no problem with Chief being able to lower his weapon and go a bit faster to traverse long distances. But you have to be careful about how you balance that into the game with everything else, including enemy movement speed, pro enemy projectile speed. Like you you got to balance all that out. It's like the two big elements that go like um I think I mean we've talked about this before. I can't remember when, but I know it's popped up. Um like just it's kind of basic game design philosophy which is the speed at which the player moves is like really really integral to for starters how big the play space is. Um I know I I mentioned this before in the in the remix that we that that I streamed with Andy and Patrician here. I I brought up Guild Wars 2 as as an example. That's an MMO and like 13 whatever years ago when it came out, players didn't have mounts and so all of the zones in that game were designed around the fact that you didn't have mounts. I think like the most you could speed up was essentially you can give yourself swiftness where you move it like 30% faster, right? And that was that was most of the time and it was like never permanent. But um then you know 10 you know eight whatever like I think it was like maybe seven or so years later they added mounts in the Path of Fire expansion and those mounts or those areas in that expansion were specifically done with the mobility of each mount in mind and those played really really well with the mounts. However, now you have like kind of an issue where well do you allow mounts in the original areas and they said yes you can use mounts in the original areas. So when you went back to those original areas and you know in the vanilla game and you had these mounts that you know came in years and years later it does impact how it makes the maps feel a lot smaller in a way because you know obviously the physical space but of how fast you can go through them and you know it's it's a goofy MMO and it's fun and everyone's having a good time and so the vibes are totally different so it's not like a problem problem uh in a manner of speaking especially because it's so cooperative in nature but when you are making your levels and you can have a button where the player can just like move 10, 15, 20% faster and you're just copying levels from a game where you can't do that. You've made a you've made a that's an incredible error. You can't do that. >> You have to make these games in mind and they should be new levels anyway because it is a remake. I shouldn't be playing the same levels. >> I would summarize it as it is a quality of life feature that a segment of the Halo fan base has become accustomed to and that's why they feel the necessity to include it. beyond my skitso theory that they're just including it to [ __ ] with the people who've been criticizing its existence the entire time. >> I think uh more boring than that on the on I think it's just shooters have run so you should be able to run say with it being a quality of life feature personally I'd like to table it and move on. So if you have like major thoughts regarding it you know >> say your piece and let's just move on. Uh, one one thing I wanted to add was like if every level in 343 or Halo Studios' version they they like or rather there's a you can press [ __ ] I don't know P and it you pull out the the golden gun and it'll kill anything instantly with infinite ammo and they even have a cut scene to account for it. It's [ __ ] keys hands you this gun. It would be like well it works mechanically like everything's functional but that is the most damage that's done to this game. You'd be like but it's such a bad game for other reasons. is like, "Yeah, but they give you the golden gun at the beginning and it just makes it so that all levels are pointless." Like, what I'm saying is that sprint can work and you can stop using it and and all these different things, but I think that it does the broad sometimes passive extreme damage to this game. But I'm I'm I agree. I'm more than happy to talk about uh if you want to talk about health regen, >> I guess. >> Well, I think health regen is a if we're talking about the single biggest change gameplay-wise that damages the experience, I think it's health regeneration. though obviously sprint is a big point at this point we it might be just a matter of like I said we're measuring which turret is larger >> but playing the original and then instantly like the next day playing the remake not have essentially having a second shield bar that regenerates infinitely and even it begins to regenerate quicker than your shields slower but it begins quicker was like man I when I'm playing the original and I take damage and that you get chipped piece by piece by piece then you're like oh it's almost like a like a secondary way for you to measure how well you're playing the game to get better and better at getting through encounters. Not just getting through them period, but getting through them. >> Risk taking. >> Oh, absolutely. You know, oh, I've got a lot of health. I could be a bit more risky. Or, hey, that that last fight went really well. I'm in, you know, the yellow or the red. So, this next fight I've actually got to change how I would have otherwise played the game. And that just does not exist in the Halo remake. That's that's an entire aspect of the sort of mental gameplay loop and you know momentto moment tactical you know decision-making that you do in the original that just it doesn't exist. It's not a part of this game anymore and you don't realize how big of a thing it is until it's not something that you have to account for at all. uh just to introduce it sort of right like because I think I was playing combat evolved while Frank he was streaming campaign evolved and I remember just catching a bit of his stream and he was just talking and I think he said the word like something about my health is regetting and I was I remember just it was on my other monitor and I was like excuse me it was like what do you mean health regen and he was just like yeah showed it and it's not just that the health regens it's that before your health has fully regened which I was showing this I couldn't [ __ ] believe it your shield can regen like they've made it Yeah. So the >> lower one long shield bar at that point if it required you to be full health to get your shields back. I understand why they have them both regenerate at the same but at different paces. >> It's [ __ ] crazy, man. I was like, "Holy [ __ ] this could be easy." >> It was surprising cuz I was like, "Oh, my health has begun to regenerate before my shields, but it regenerates at a slower rate once it starts." But again, at that point, it's like, well, this is just this is just a little detail about why this doesn't work. As long as you survive a fight with a pixels worth of health, you're golden. You're fine. Every fight will always be the same. >> And that would be punishment on Halo CE. If you're at the lowest health you can be, you have to play really carefully going forward. >> Yeah. >> And of course, Halo 2 and three don't work this way. You know, Halo 2 and three have regenerating health, but like Halo 2 and three are designed to with that in mind. Um, >> and then ODSC and Reach were designed to have health back like you have. >> That's right. And and kind of systems cuz in, you know, reach regenerates a little bit like to top you off. Yeah. Like if you get hit by something and you're like one bar away from full, it will top you off. Yeah. >> Exactly. >> It's a shame, too, because campaign involved, right? If you have three encounters in a row, but only the one health pack to start, you do particularly well on the first one. The second two are going to come across easier because you have more mistakes to make. And then vice versa, a second playthrough, if you [ __ ] up the first part, I'm going have to work harder in the next two now because I have less mistakes. It's like there's a variability there that they obviously account for. Um, but there's also just like it was a it was a cool medium between older games that it was strictly health packs and and health limits and then brand new games where it's regen everything. This felt like an interesting idea of, you know, playing it as for the first time of being like, I've got to manage my my core health, which is always going to be my backup versus my uh my shielding, which gives me time to mess around. >> There are people who are trying to site like, well, Halo 2 and three only have the regenerating shield, and they're acting like that's an own, but it's like, no, that that is a reason that I that is a point against those games. In my opinion, I believe that health is a fundamental aspect because of how it influences your decision-making algorithm when it comes to I'm full health, I'm going to take more risks versus I'm low health, I'm going to play it carefully. And it adds to the replayability that isn't really present in Halo 2 and 3. >> Uh, obviously those games are, but I'm just saying that health health adds a dimension to combat that is missing if it just comes back on its own accord. And there's also just something to be said for the fact that it's a lot easier to understand essentially the nature of your your situation when you've got like a health bar that's very clearly there compared to your shields are gone, you know, then then it's going to take like a few more hits and you're dead. It's it's like it's more information to mess around with. I like I don't mind having just the regenerating shields and like no health packs, but it is a unique aspect um of the first game and also you know somewhat to a lesser extent ODST and Reach that um there wasn't really any need to be getting rid of it other than you didn't value it which would be what I would say of 343. They were like, "Yeah, who [ __ ] gives a shit?" >> The most number of fans where it's like, "We have to add sprint because our half of our fans expect there to be sprint. We have to add health because people will expect health, but we're going to do it in a way that's still kind of like how it works in, you know, Halo 4, 5 infinite." Um, >> so it's just >> and I like I like the idea that it is a way to measure like in a sort of meta sense like play your skill. I'm a big Verminant Tide, Dark Tide fan. And especially in Verment Tide when you get really really good at it. Not to toot my own horn here, but like it's it's a good way to go through the level and be like, how little damage can I take while getting through the level? And that's a way for me to sort of get satisfaction of I'm getting better. I'm getting better. I'm getting better. I barely took damage. I barely took damage. And that's like a marker to me that you're improving. It's a sign that you're improving. And in a way, you could do that in Halos where you had health. you know, I got through this whole level barely ever needing to touch health or keeping my health in the, you know, yellow and above, whereas, you know, I didn't used to be able to do that. >> I'm with regards to the >> I was going to say quickly with regard to the difficulty on this, like because I'm not particularly good at shooters, I normally play Halo on uh normal difficulty. On this, I was told by a certain long man that I should play it on heroic, so I did and I completed it. Um, and I thought it was maybe slightly harder, but not like a level up of harder. I didn't I thought it was definitely easier than than what I believe heroic is in the normal game. And I think that's entirely seemingly because of the combination of sprint and the regenerating shields because you can just >> like cynically I think that part of the reason why they may have done it is that it's easier to develop, but then like a lot of the encounters are just, you know, copy and pasted from the original game because like the developers know >> copy and paste. >> Well, sure, but sure. But like they're they're going to know that that you're going to be on full health and full shields for every encounter. So they don't have to worry about it. >> It makes it repetitive because every encounter you go in with the same amount of resources and the same >> Yeah. Exactly. >> options. I would say on the on talking about the encounters because it's probably you know in terms of a bigger topic that sort of uh contextualizes all of this is just the general enemy design and AI which um before even talking about it there's like a couple of things that are worth noting which is as much as you'd be like this is a remake of combat evolved right it's like yeah but the enemy design is not strictly copied from combat evolved in fact it's a little bit It's um it's something that people started to notice and as soon as it was pointed out it prompted me to even go back and play reach again to remind myself. Um the the elites are absolutely reach elites. >> So this is a staple of 343. They do this in every single one of their games. It's all because where they forked their engine off where they're copying their gameplay was Reach. And that's why all of their games have the same stupid like elite melee fuckups and >> but it's it's particularly a sort of jumbled because in this case you're dealing with you've got reach elites but they're not exactly reach elites. They're a lot dumber than reach elites. They don't really jump around and and and weave and and dodge and like evade and I imagine maybe they'd be like well there's no armor ability so we can't have them evade. There's that but then you've also got that the flood. This is Halo 3 flood. Um, obviously there are no flood in Reach, but this is Halo 3 in in a few notable ways, but also like not totally cuz you've got the tank form, which number one shouldn't even exist here because it's a pure flood form and there's no grave mind here. So, number one, it shouldn't even be here from a which we'll get more into that later, but it can't transform into the other um the other var variants. And the consequence of that is that they are not particularly adaptable in a in a particularly notable way. they cannot jump. So, if you get onto an elevated platform, they can't handle you. But then also just that um in Halo 1, the the little um the little infection fellas uh you know, they they can't reanimate corpses. In this one, they can, but only specific ones, not any corpse, >> only already flood ones. Only ones that already flood combat forms. >> This one adds in that you have to deal with elite flood forms that have shields, which is not present in the uh in the original game as well. What's funny is they took out the stealth camo flood from Halo CE. >> There was a few. And when I mean when I say I mean >> I I think well I mean that means it works but um I I think there were I think I literally it was two. There were two >> but they they did exist but they are exceedingly it's like the needle rifle in the >> exist where they originally did. Well, I mean there's, you know, we could probably come back to that specifically, the nature of how some of the encounters are not exactly the same. Um, >> are we are we on AI? because my god do I have a >> yes we need to talk about basically like the the the point that that I I want to make before we start to like delve into it is that what you have here in terms of the enemy design and the AI is like a hodgepodge of elements pulled from various different games thrown into a game that was built around Halo Combat Evolved elite grunt jackal design and flood design um but it's pulled from various different games and thrown in and it it doesn't [ __ ] work is the is the is the ultimate conclusion to be drawn from uh from from the consequences of it. Uh the main thing I identified was there's a few key changes. Elites don't telegraph their actions as broadly anymore. The melee swings that the elites do in Combat Evolved is very obvious and very easy to dodge. Meanwhile, the reach elites have this stupid ass punch animation that instakills you and is like super fast and you can't see it coming because it's a punch, like a low gut check. Um, the other thing they inherit from Reach is the projectiles are much faster. So, uh, it's more it's more punishing because your shields drain faster. So, you're encouraged to just hang out at the back of the map and pick off enemies to reduce the amount of fire coming your way. And then the pathf finding, there's just invisible lines everywhere that they can't [ __ ] cross. There's a staircase on assault in the control room where you could just sit there and they will not find you. >> The thing is as well is that obviously in all Halo games they control where the enemies can and cannot go. They have to. Um there was always some amount of control on what they can do. But never has it been so obvious, oh you can't pass this line on the ground. Resident >> unless unless a grenade hits you and it bumps you over, then you might start attacking me because melee range and then they'll cross the line. >> They'll just Oh, they'll scoot back. Yeah, they'll stop on all levels. This is present on the prequel levels as well. Um it it's particularly funny on the prequel levels because a lot of them are big open spaces. They're not bound as much by uh rooms, at least not very small rooms, and yet they will not follow you. Welcome to talk over this whole sequence, by the way, but the Banshee AI is horrific. I don't know if it's the single worst piece of [ __ ] architecture in the entire game. Just let this play out and keep talking about the AI and everything, but just keep an eye on the visuals. This whole encounter was insane. >> Because they wanted to make it easy to hijack them because that's just like a staple in later games. >> They made it a lot and you can you can jump. >> They just gave the pilots brain damage so that you can hijack their >> assuming assuming there's even a pilot at all. I don't think I've played Assault in the Control Room in this game correctly. I think every single time I've easily like hijacked a Banshee, flew up to the bridge, and skipped like a couple rooms. >> Which, by the way, would be an example of why even adding stuff that's in other Halo games, just throwing it in half-hazardly, I'm not even in favor of from this studio. >> It has to be accounted for. It has to be accounted for in the levels. >> They just at the top of the bridge, so like you could fly up there, but you can't skip the level. I would be fine with that. Even if it [ __ ] with speedrunning because hey, it's a new game. New speedrun tech has to be come up with. >> If that allows me to hijack banshees, I'm fine with it. >> It was an insane contrast for me cuz in Combat Evolved, the banshees were something if they're in a map at any time, I'm like, hm, >> better be careful cuz if they get their eyes on me and I'm focusing on other [ __ ] I can get killed pretty easily. The ones in this, I was just like, are you okay? >> Well, there's no aerial there's no aerial. Well, I guess there's Sentinels, but they're [ __ ] brain dead, too. Like they didn't add drones, which I thought would be an easy layup of like add enemies that force you to look up occasionally. Like that's what the banshee does on assault in the control room. It makes you look up and see how tall the ravine is. >> But no, this one like actually labbotomized this whole time just flying into walls being completely confused. I don't know what it wants to do. >> I think the space is too small for the whatever game they're copying this AI from. Probably infinite. It makes you wonder at least in a case of this, like at the very least, if the Banshee is like consistently just flying into the wall over a period of like two seconds, then have it just do a flip or turn around. >> But look at this. >> Don't just have it keep doing the same behavior. >> What is it even trying to accomplish? >> Cuz the area is not exact. Like I wouldn't describe it as so tiny that it can't deal with anything. like it, you know, getting caught in >> you have to realize those levels are stupidly large and I think it's to have scrambled it enemies flying around in it because they're just too brain dead. >> Yeah. No, I mean and and this is obviously this is a notable example, but there's heaps of this throughout the game where it's just like an elite, you know, a zealot will chase you and then just suddenly stop in his tracks >> for no for seemingly no reason at all. and he has to go back to his his approved arena to fight in. And when we get into encounter design, we will have a lot of things to say. Check this out. Right arenas, >> you notice here. >> Yeah, Jack. Nobody's in there. >> Yeah. Well, they they're in there. They're just invisible. >> Well, yeah. Well, cuz he was Wait, are they supposed to be like like camo invisible or are they just invisible? >> You're now inside him. That's why >> like an enemy will come out and they're not like a stealth elite or anything. It's just that they are it it is broken >> which I like >> it's so funny that they opted for copying code to shortcut and then they [ __ ] up the code they're copying or rather they put it in places it can't function. It's so funny. >> Yeah. Um, one of the rumors for why they're switching to Unreal Engine is they hired so many contractors to work on Halo Infinite that they no longer know how to work around the code that they have because they no longer have the people who coded Halo Infinite. >> Mhm. >> Well, yeah. I mean, >> old code architecture. I was talking to Frankie about this like it was always a meme for League of Legends and plenty of other games, but it's been updated now for so long that there's people who are in charge of updating the code who are like scared of the old code and don't [ __ ] with it cuz if you put anything out of place, it'll completely kill the whole game. >> Yeah, there was a banana texture the game won't work. >> There was a champion like that in League. I want to say it was Quinn. And every time they made an update to the game, like the people who develop who were around when the character was introduced, they had to keep adjusting this particular champion's Q ability or something cuz otherwise the whole game would break. They had to update it every patch. >> Got it. >> Oh, Random, you want to introduce this clip that we're looking at? >> So, this is uh for anyone who saw my stream, this is Fred. Um, we'll see exactly when he pops up. Where are we at? 142. Yeah, he's coming. So, I don't know what the [ __ ] happened here, but uh we we've just finished an encounter. We're going to turn around and I noticed something and uh right over here. We're going to run over there and have a look. So, uh this would be this would be Fred. And um essentially what seems to have happened uh watch together has frozen for me. Oh no, there we go. Um yeah, what seems to have happened is that the cuz I thought it was just like an enemy like a floodman came back and then he didn't attack me and I thought, well, okay, that's quite funny. Um so I continued with the level a little bit and then I came back and he was still here. So I tried, you know, I was pushing him around. I tried shooting him and various other things and he just nothing would break him out of this labbotomized state. Um, I had no explanation for why this happened. Someone uh Dam Master in my comments gave an explanation that now that you guys are talking about them porting AI in from other future Halo games, >> it explains this and if if he's correct then you guys will have to let me know. So basically what he said is 343 appear to have ported the flood mechanic from Halo 3. that means that they can get reanimated and there is a separate mechanic that means when floodman die to sent to a sentinel beam which is what this guy what happened with this guy they go toasty and they can't get reanimated so what happened here because of the bug is that he got um reanimated twice after I killed him with a with a sentinel beam um he gets reanimated after being burned the first time and then I killed him again without a sentinel beam and then he got up again >> and that seems to have caused this his wires have been crossed >> frazzled his brain so know that that is why it is cuz I had a guy called Frank in mine and he was in the penult I think the end of keys. No sentinel beams involved. I don't think he even been reanimated and he was exactly like this. He was really friendly and >> was he toasty? Was he was he like >> did he look toasty like this? >> If he wasn't killed beam, he shouldn't have been. >> Oh, I guess you trying to say like it's probably a lot less complicated and it's just the AI is absolute [ __ ] Well, so I have this >> um on our co-op playthrough, if we were sufficiently far apart, the AI in one part of the map would start to just not like do anything. Like they would just stand there and wait because I believe too much was loaded for it to work. So, this happens on co-op. Also, I've been told that if you enable the skull that makes it so the assault rifle has 60 bullets, none of the enemies or allies that use the assault rifle will fire their weapon. Oh, >> they just Is that on purpose? >> I've heard it from multiple. It's got to be unintentional. >> Well, because the thing I because like uh having 60 This this baffled me. Having 60 rounds in the assault rifle doesn't disable achievements. So, they think like there's this logic that having 60 cuz I was like, why wouldn't that be the case? Cuz I've I've like doubled my rounds in the AR before I have to reload. And and it's like, well, it doesn't really change anything about your total ammo. It's like, yeah, but 60 to reload half as often because it's nearly twice as much ammo. But I mean, touches >> that school exists just to be like, see, we're >> respecting the original design, >> even though we've changed the design. >> Yeah, the original had 60 rounds and we've implemented the SMG to play the same role, but you installed a skull that superficially fixes it. So, why are you complaining? >> If you switch the AI with the marines, then they could use 60 round. So would you have to just keep switching with everybody to upgrade their uh >> you have to reload their >> Okay. Um something uh that I is is worth noting in terms of like the way that the enemies are designed in this game. I mentioned it before, but like elites are particularly stupid and not very interested in preserving their own lives. Um it really is fascinating when you realize that these are the Reach elites. >> When you play Reach, they just jump around a lot. They jump and they weave and they roll. >> They're super agile to contrast with broods. >> Exactly. Whereas here, they just kind of stand there and let themselves like get shot at. >> I think that whatever code is running the AI is not updating enough and so like they're the way that they're making the decisions as to what to do is not firing enough and that's why you see a lack of reactivity. Of course, something that had to happen to Andy is that the AI was like perfect frame dodging his bullets where it was vibrating back and forth, left and right every time he shot >> because they have a behavior to dodge projectiles, but this just broke. This just broke. >> It It's almost like you're playing PvP and someone's tapping left and right to dodge. >> You look like a fighting game character. I need I need to pull up that tweet. And something that's >> frustrating about this and and various other things is that it reduces like I don't know how they botched it as well, but there is something very helpful when you're playing games like this of a reliability of uh enemy action based on the things that you choose to do, right? You take out their SHIELDS AND THEY GO AND THEY SHAKE THEIR HEAD A little bit, right? Like that's nice. Or even something as simple as again in the first game where if you throw grenades, they'll just like roll out of the way a lot of the time, which is very nice because sometimes you might want to throw a grenade to make the elites roll out of the way to essentially achieve some other goal. Whereas here, most of the time they'll just sort of stand there and take it. >> Want to live? >> Yeah, they want to live as well. Whereas here, they'll just take it and then they'll like launch off of the ground, but there's no animation for it either. They just kind of float into the air. Like >> I found that jackals in particular would never really get out of the way of grenades. It was more often than not they would you could just throw grenades at jackals and they would just stand there on top of it which makes them like immensely easier to deal with. And similarly how you could just melee through their shields half the time. So but yeah just behaviors of the enemies would impact immensely how how difficult they would or wouldn't be to kill. But instead, there's just like no reliability to it at all. >> Got a variation on this guy as well, cuz like some of some of these guys, you think, well, he's just getting stuck under like a low hanging object or he can't fit through the door. >> That does not explain the fullest extent of how [ __ ] these guys are. Um, you're seeing some of it here. They cannot handle ramps. They can't figure the way around the room. Um there there's occasions where I I don't know if it's the one I shared earlier. It's I think it's 2 hours and 8 minutes in my one, but um there there are bits where like you can sit there overlooking a main room where they they they want to be they really want to be in this main room, but you're elevated in that position. And so they sort of they briefly look around for like the highest point they can just naturally walk to, which in some cases is just up a wall for no particular reason. Um, and then they get really confused and they go all the way back and then you you try and bait them around corners. Like I want to be It's half the reason I use sprint is because if the enemies aren't going to be taking me seriously, why should I take them? Um, you want them to be able to do basic things like figuring out where the [ __ ] people are, but they can't. So, here's the bit. Yeah, this is the one. Um, so he's like I'm up here. I'm trying to bait him into doing anything at all basically, except vomiting, which they like doing when they're panicking, I guess, which is understandable. He thinks that's elevation, so he just walks up the wall. >> Yeah. >> Then he gets confused. >> Then he's like, "Oh shit." Oh. And then he eventually once I shoot him enough. I think I might actually have to lead him around the corner in a second, which I do cuz there's two of them in this room. So he eventually realizes there is a corner. Um he's actually taking longer to realize it than I remember him doing as well, but he does eventually realize there's a corner. This room is prolifically broken. I've had so many issues with the pathfinding here. >> So, he goes around the corner. He's like, "Aha, he's coming up the ramp. >> He died." But there's another one. So, now we can experiment. This is how they deal with ramps. Now, I'm trying to figure out exactly what's going on in his head cuz I think the answer is nothing. He has, I think, a turning circle. And this is part of the power radius. Yeah, he couldn't turn sharp enough to be able to >> I haven't theory about what's going wrong with this room. So, on the original version of Assault in the Control Room, there are two ways to enter this room, whereas one of those ways gets covered with flood gunk on Two Betrayals, and I think they didn't remove the original pathfinding nodes. So, they think that a valid way to get to you is to go through this wall, but then they can't actually go through it. So, then they get stuck kind of in a loop trying to figure out the pathfinding solution for getting to you. By the way, I did also encounter what you had mentioned about how in in this in these space the flood tanks would there there's like if a flood tank is one unit high, there were all of these8 unit tall spaces that you could walk through, but it just couldn't get to you. Yeah, there's like sort of one right there. Yeah, it mine was a different one, but I'm, you know, I'm watching it now. >> It was very like blatant as to how this had ended up happening. Like the room is the room and they've copied it from the original game and then they've added an enemy that was never in the original game. Yeah. And then they seemingly just didn't test it like ever. >> Not designed for the space. They didn't test anything about this gun. >> I think they knew it was there, but they didn't give a [ __ ] >> Yeah. Sorry. >> When we were doing a remix play through, I think that the number the thing we saw more than anything else was probably just the floating weapons everywhere above the floor. And it was so common and everywhere. You do wonder like they they knew they knew about this, but they shipped it anyway. It wasn't a big enough deal. who can't play this game without noticing it. They just thought it was acceptable. >> If you want to uh take a look at the time stamp for uh because it was uh the library was when it was particularly apparent like uh the the the problem with the which is funny cuz it's like the first level that they're introduced in. Um the library is a place that has a lot of geometry that you can climb on top of. It's kind of meant to be that way. you're meant to be able to jump onto a lot of these platforms to sort of be able to control the flood and you know where they're going to pursue you because of the fact that the whole design of the flood is that they're kind of aggressive and they're on you forever. Um in this case they've actually made it so that these platforms are if anything much easier to jump onto but the tanks cannot jump. They can't jump so they can't follow you. There was two >> get up there by accident Fringy when um like it it killed me and I died and then like in the post death screen for whatever reason it did like a turn and it was able to somehow like rejig itself up there by accident. >> Yeah. Very strange. >> They could awkwardly shuffle. But there's two like being familiar with games anxiety experiences that I think are really funny because they benefited this game and it didn't have any answer for it. Um, when you stood on, you know, in the first encounter, a lot of people stand on the platforms they provide you and the tanks can't deal with them at at all. Uh, when you first do that, uh, Fringy, you you instinctually jump off it when the tank almost looks like it's climbing up the wall when it's really just it juts up the wall and falls back down. But you think because you've played games before, oh, is it climbing up the wall to jump off the wall onto the platform? Cuz that sounds like something a developer would make it do. But no, it didn't. And so you needlessly jumped off the platform where you were completely safe. Similarly, and I said this on my stream, because I've got Left 4 Dead burned into my [ __ ] brain, seeing these guys, you know that move where it puts the two arms into the ground to like vomit. Every time it did that, I would lock into it's about to throw a boulder at me. >> It's going to throw a boulder. And every time I'd be like, "No, I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. It's not these things aren't even coded. Of course, I'm fine." >> I think what I find so fascinating about it is, of course, the normal flood infection forms, they can jump up and get you because of course they can because that's how they're designed. And in the case of these guys, the whole point is that they're meant to transform into other types if you do things that make it so that they can't really get to you anymore. They'll they'll turn into little spider ones or they'll jump up on the wall and then transform into the one that can shoot spikes at you. None of that's here. They just have them as the tank as like a mini boss, but they're a mini boss that can't handle something that you're obviously going to do on a level like this that this level was designed to facilitate, which is just going on an elevated platform. you just go up and then they can't follow you. They can't they can't do anything. They're stuck. >> My if you play my clip, you'll see um I was doing this on legendary and my perspective is this is the only encounter in which the flood tank functions as an enemy. Every other encounter that it's pasted into just it just it can't function in a lot of spaces. The reason that I think the flood tank is the way it is is it's supposed to be kind more of a support like tank unit than an actual uh main unit. And so you have the infection forms that'll crawl up walls and chase you. You have the combat forms who will jump at you and shoot at you. And then you have the tank forms that are supposed to be applying like continuous pressure to get you to move around the environment. And I think that's kind of the inherent balance. It is a unit that is designed to be placed alongside other units that can make up for its deficiencies. The problem is it doesn't always have its team to help it with the deficiencies. >> Well, not only does it not, but the first time you see it, it is introduced on its own. >> It's Yeah, it's a way to do it like a mini boss fight. >> Yeah, >> it would be bad enough if this was just like a particular like say the jackals for example just didn't work. But like this is a new enemy. It is a different enemy. They the game goes out of its way to be like, "Oh my god, look, we've got one of these things in the game. This is new content, >> and it just doesn't [ __ ] work." >> It's like the most broken one. >> It's the most broken one, and it's the one they draw the most attention to. >> It is both a tank and a necromancer unit because it spawns a thing that will re regenerate the combat forms, and then it also backs up the combat forms by forcing you to put on pressure and make you run around the level. But, um, it's just so often misused. It's just um fascinating because this is an enemy type that they chose to put into the game that didn't exist before and yet they didn't have they didn't account for and it's probably like what uh what John said. They didn't care. >> They just whatever like who gives a [ __ ] or like oh we we only got like 10 months or whatever to finish this. Like >> part of what makes this game feel like this game feels like a messy medley of Halo. >> Uh and not in a positive way. And it could have been in a positive way. We took Halo, we added in all the cool mechanics and stuff that came in later games. Like that could be executed well. Could be. >> It's another one that has consequences because they've redesigned so much else about the level and the way enemies spawn and the number of enemies that spawn to account for the fact that there is now this new dynamic in this area. Um the fact that they're useless means the entire thing is so easy because they've there are not as many flood. The flood do not flood in the library at all. They come at you one at a time and it's like, well, I think in their minds they've tried to balance it because they have these newer tougher enemy types. But if your newer, tougher enemy types are the easiest thing in the game, then all you've done is just remove the only thing that was fun. >> Yep. Also, which um on on that front, it's probably worth noting as well. Now, you guys can help me out cuz maybe I'm totally mistaken, but in this game, I have noticed on a few instances when I've died and respawned that the enemy types change. um seemingly arbitrarily >> like location. >> Oh, well, not just location, but like um clearest example to me. Yeah. So, so for instance, an assault on the control room, you know how like when you when the pelican drops you down, you hop out and then you got a couple elites come out the door and uh and a bunch of grunts and stuff. Um I have noticed that when I've died and respawned, the elite type has changed. Like it'll change from like a red elite to a wide elite. So, I have not noticed that. And I want to say >> playing through the remix mode, if that was a thing, I would absolutely have exploited it because there's a lot of encounters where it's just like I would do the same room 50 times in a row because it's like there's 15 flood tanks and four hunter pairs and 37 gold sword elites and it's like if I can change the unit composition so that they'd be grunts, I would abuse that. Your specific example, I've had this problem on the remix mode. There is a nonzero chance that it will spawn hunters as the first encounter on assault in the control room. And maybe that one's coded where it can change what they are because you will get soft locked if it spawns hunters. >> I've seen it elsewhere as well to the point where entire groups of enemies >> just like will be there and then won't be there and then will be there. If you die based on just where you die, you'll just go through and entire groups of enemies will be there or not be there. Sometimes seemingly >> on truth and reconciliation as well. There was a point when I died and when I came back there was a different elite. It was like a red elite instead of a That's what I noticed. It would be something >> um explicit on mine with truth and reconciliation. There was a part where I was trying to do a run from like A to B and I I'd nearly gotten it. Nearly gotten it. I was like definitely pull this off. And then suddenly on the same run there were two extra jackals just hanging out and then they started killing me and I was like wait what? And then I was like well okay I don't think I can do this if you have two extra jackals as well. And then I respawned they were gone again. And I was like, "What?" >> Yeah. Which um like I'm I am confident like I don't think I'm going crazy. This is just an element of this game. I do not remember this being the case in any of the Bungie games unless I'm totally mistaken. Yeah, exactly. I thought which to me this just indicates the almost how arbitrary the game seems to think that a lot of the encounters are. >> I don't think it is. Oh, what on screen right here or the back? I'd love to see because >> of what? >> I do not >> specifically because I got the jackal one. I could probably find it. >> I can find one for my playthrough. I've got one in mind that that I'm thinking of. It's it's on the legendary. >> You guys are you guys are dirty sprinters who uh bypass encounters. Maybe you're [ __ ] with the respawn mechanic. Whereas I'm somebody who's like chewing through the levels because most of the remix you have to >> room on the control room. I you have to fight these guys pretty much on that side. >> Actually I may have already stumbled on it. I think this is where I was cuz I remember it being like a catwalk sort of upper area but uh cuz I was able to run through most of this. Each time it would get a different result obviously. Yeah. Can you see those those jackles there? These two sometimes they just wouldn't spawn. Um, I don't know if I can maybe roll it back enough that I'll get >> that are up on the upper upper ring, not in the hallway. >> Yeah, I'm about to see them again now. Yeah, see, they're not there. >> H, it just completely changed the whole dynamic cuz it would uh if they were there or were there, >> it would decide if I win or not. >> Well, see, is that not it right there? Maybe they're just like >> sometimes they sprint up to meet you and then sometimes they hang back because I swear I saw one at the end of that last clip. >> I I I wish I had the clip, but it was when I was playing off uh when I was playing through legendary offline. But like >> it definitely was the case that in the first Assault on the control room like level if you died the elite switched like it switched from a a wide elite to a red elite or vice versa was what I think I had on truth and reconciliation at the exact same spawn point. >> If you die at the first point of assault in the control room does it re basically restart the level? >> Yeah, restart you on the pelican. Maybe that's why because the entire thing it happened in the middle of truth and reconciliation like when I was going through there's like a pathway that kind of takes you to the last arena outside. >> Um I remember I died and it was white elite and red elite and I was like oh okay and then I went down and suddenly it was two red elites broken because if they were modulating the spawns because like oh we think the player is having difficulty with this so we're going to take a few units out. Why wouldn't it be consistent? Why wouldn't there be a point where those it's just those jackals aren't >> spawn? They're already there. They've already spawned. >> Yeah, these jackles >> are are just they seem borderline random whether or not I get them. And >> that's why I think it's it's more so broken than it is uh >> Oh, no. Yeah. I I wouldn't I don't think this is adaptive difficulty. I think this is something's wrong. >> Yeah, it'll be sort of inversely >> sort of inversely. I've had enemies just spawn right in front of me. Yes, >> like I I think there's um there's issues with enemies spawning based on like trigger volumes that you enter that may not spawn until you've >> like killed x amount of >> enemies in the previous area. But if you sprint all through it, then it [ __ ] that up. >> So then you go to like areas ahead and then there's like spawning issues like you know whether whether it's inconsistent or they're spawning right in front of you. It's >> Yeah. It does a lot on co-op, but you can notice it by yourself on two betrayals. If you clear the final objective and run to the door as fast as possible, you will see the enemies in that hallway spawn in before your eyes. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Which >> mine was when u the when you fight the two hunters on, you know, on the the lid essentially on a uh a or sorry, silent cgrapher. Uh when I got killed by the hunters and came through that little narrow canyon, then there was just like an elite and a bunch of grunts that just weren't there, but like an entire little battle group that just was here now that wasn't there the first time. >> You now reminded me with silent cgrapher. What the hell did they do to the cloak deletes? What do they do to them? >> Are we talking about the very end where they decided they put like seven of them? >> I'll tell you what happened. I'll tell you what happened. Here's the problem. They combined the cloak deletes with the spec ops elites. Cloak deletes in Halo CE don't have shields. >> No, that's the problem here. >> That's the balance. That is the whole balance of them in that >> they have like they jump you but you can kill them easier. >> Whereas in this case, they take like six bullets from the pistol to to like knock out their shields. Like they're like kind of >> normal eights. Yeah. >> And there's like eight of them. >> Grenades if you stick grenades. >> It's a 343 game. You're not you're not getting smart design. You're getting jumped. >> Yeah, it's a bizarre uh like difficulty spike where you kind of especially if you're playing it on like the normal the heroic mode and you go through and you're like, "All right, this is pretty easy." You hit that weird wall where they the designers just say, "You know what? Here's seven elites in a room." >> This was the brutal example, by the way. Um >> where this is just mega broken, but it's a I did show Fringy specifically how how this breaks. There's an encounter before this. I'm sure you all remember it where if you release the brutes, they'll attack the elites and you're supposed to just kill everything in the room. Haha. It's in like a prison cell. All the the brutes and they're autoed into this like rage mode. They're already starting on it. So the game I noticed when playing on stream that when you wipe everything out that are elite related, oh sorry, covenant related that like the game progresses. It's like we did it, you know, moving to the next room. It is irrelevant of the brutes being killed. I was like, oh wait, >> I guess it assumes you will kill them. Yeah, it does. It does. It just thinks it doesn't register them as the collective enemy. It's more so like obviously they killed the the the brutes because the brutes are angry and running after them. You can just drive them into this room and so while they're running cut scenes, for example, Johnson just gets battered by dies on the >> for some reason. >> Designers thought if players have no impulse control. They did buy our game, so they'll just shoot anything that moves and we can proceed. >> But the the best part of this for me was that he just gives up eventually. He's like, "Ah, [ __ ] it." just stand still. I'll hang out. And then you can actually uh just continue the game. Like you can activate the thing, you can lower the thing like all the prisons come and I showed Fringier, but you can actually get all three brutes in there and they're all just running around infinitely head button and [ __ ] cuz they just >> Okay, maybe somebody has the answer on that. But um the brutes where where are they what what is the AI that they're meant to be pulling from or is theirs wholly original to this game? Because if so that is >> because I mean >> they are original as an idea outside of being brutes, right? Like the whole >> the whole shooting the mind control thing that makes them go like instead of having the berserk be that you've taken out their shields or they're the last guy left and then they charge you. Like I'm not actually sure what kind of a cuz a few people are saying Halo 3 and it's like I don't know about that. They don't seem to behave like Halo 3 brutes. It's hard to tell. >> Are you alluding to the possibility that they are wholly original? >> Yes. And the fact that they are probably the most broken enemy in the game. >> Yeah, possibly. Well, in they were introduced in Halo 2 as a new enemy type and like a midway escalation and uh like you you could um if if you took their health below a certain threshold, they would go berserk, but then they would focus all that rage on you. But now they've made them like stupid where it's like they need this device on their suit to prevent them from attacking their own guys. And then you you shoot that thing and it makes them attack their own guys. Not only does it reduce them as a threat, but it's like they make it so glaring, like obnoxiously glaring. The thing that you >> It's got the prequel missions is that you should like really want to destroy this facility because the government covenant are developing like a super weapon for the brutes. But I couldn't but but I couldn't help but think, well, no, no, no. We should leave this facility in as fully operational because it seems like what they're what they're developing is a big red button on the front of the in front of Brutes that if you shoot it, it goes apehit and kills all of its own men. So, we should we should leave this as it is and just go >> tell you about bullets. >> It ended up being some of the most fun I had was just and I did I'm sorry to uh Halo Studios. I'm not actually. But it wasn't because you guys created something fun. It was me just enjoying everything [ __ ] up. It's like I turned them on each other and then just watch them [ __ ] around and get stuck on [ __ ] Look, look at this. >> Good job. This is so very scary. >> That's the kind of thing that you introduce, you have to carefully balance around that, you know, like the player being able to do something like that to make the brute attack everyone else. >> It goes to show that when they're introducing their own concept as opposed to just directly copying something from Bungie, they just can't do it. the Brutes. This incarnation of the Brutes is a new thing and since they don't have someone's homework to copy, it just it's not a good implementation. >> Just like we saw what we saw earlier with the flood tank forms, like they aren't able to go under those ramps cuz it's just like like their collision box is just slightly higher than the the open space that's there. So, they can't go through. That's an example of like them taking the original level design and then they implement their own ideas in a way that's like incompatible and they're just like ah [ __ ] it whatever. >> Yeah. I mean cuz there's this it's it was as was mentioned before and I'm pretty sure it seems to me that basically everybody got stuck to some extent on the last encounter in Silent Cgrapher. Basically everybody suddenly hit a wall because all of a sudden there are seven cloaked really strong spec ops elites right at the end that are very that and it is just >> depending on the you walk out with the issue. >> It's just they copied the original stealth elite encounter but since they have shields it's now like a massive difficulty spike. >> Yeah. pissed me off because I I was unsure of myself anyway cuz I never normally play on heroic and I was like do I just suck at this game and like the answer is still probably yes but like I felt like it it was a sudden like I wasn't struggling until then and that took me >> all of us on our playthroughs it was like spiked everybody it's just it may be the quintessential example of how the difficulty spikes work in this because of the design flaws >> and also um the rest of silent cartgrapher that section is just made like comically easy there's just fewer enemies on the climb back up and you can you can anybody can now speedun jump down to the bottom to skip down >> part. Oh yes, because that's another thing as well. It's a more minor thing, but um for the longest time while playing this game, I didn't think there was full damage. >> I didn't think that for a long >> It is mostly kill boxes cuz the the first time I realized my Yeah, that's amazing. Um, [ __ ] >> assault on the control room. I uh Yeah, the lighting is totally broken as well, but it was on assaults on the control room. I jumped down >> and uh and then I took damage and I was like, "Whoa, I guess I have full damage." Yeah, I guess there is fall damage. >> The speedrun skip on Silent Cgrapher is you have to you have to jump down from the platform and land at a specific spot and it abuses that you don't take fall damage if you land on like ramped geometry in Halo C. Whereas like you could just [ __ ] straight up jump off that platform, land on your heels, and be completely fine and not [ __ ] your spine out your [ __ ] Like >> that was another thing. I think I did. I think when I was playing on legendary, I did it by accident. I was I was dealing with the hunters and then I jumped backwards and I was like, "Oh, I guess I'm dead." Oh. Oh, no. Never mind. All right. Yeah, no problem. I only took a little bit of damage. It's all good. Um which it feels like it's just, you know, tethered to the whole health pack thing. But yeah, the like the spec ops elites right at the end is just like it it is really remarkable how >> easy and then comically hard. >> Yeah, exactly. Because again the whole balance of them in the in the original game is their glass cannons. You can't see them which is meant to throw you off a little bit. Um but you can see them because there's a you know a relatively visible shimmer that they sort of have. But yeah, if you land a headshot instant death that's the balance. and instead in this case they're like, "No, let's have it so that they're about as strong as a red elite, maybe even more so." >> Um, but also they're invisible and there's seven of them. >> So, is anybody else's like scariest unit the red elite? Because I swear to God, they are the most dangerous unit because they unlike the gold elites, they don't charge you. And unlike the blue elites, they don't just shoot you. They're super unpredictable >> and it makes them more dangerous than the ult. My issue is it's either them in the way that they behave or it's the ultras just because they're programmed to spam grenades at you constantly. >> The grenades a bit much. Yeah. the in legendary when I was uh the first like brick wall that I kind of hit was in TNR when you were in the the hangar bay the big hanger bay when you first enter and they just have this massive clump of enemies on the other side of that big wall and the ultras every time you peek your head around for just a second they would throw grenades and by the time that one blew up and you poked your head back they were ready to throw another grenade over and over and over and it made it so tedious whittling Slowly but surely >> there is an actual ultra elite unit in this game that will show up and they are they spam grenades. >> Well, yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I'm talking about them. Yeah. >> Well, there was a chatter who was asking if you meant stealth elites and I was like, "No, that >> No, not stealth. There is an >> Yeah, there's there Yeah, the from the design from Halo Reach. I I I recall it. Well, played a lot of Halo Re, which is so funny because >> they just stand out because I don't think they use Well, I guess the stealth elites are also the like spec ops elite armor from Reach, but it's like the ultras just stand out artistically as being out of place. >> Yeah, because I I recognize them from being from another game because I' i've played so much Reach that I just when I see something from a different game with the grunts as well, you see this, I'm just like, I you just took this from something else. >> They've got the armor. It's a cool armor set, but it's not an armor set that I with this game at all. You know, combat evolves, obviously. >> I think it sort of pivots. I mean, it depends on how how free form or how super structured you want to stay, but I guess in talking about, you know, recognizing the designs of things that they pulled from other games. Um, many times I' I've called this remake very cowardly and the fact that they will take like all the levels and copy them essentially one for one. they'll add on their own [ __ ] or whatever, but if you're remaking something, I would have had a lot more respect for him. I think, you know, in like a weird way, if they had just like >> Yeah, but I guess it's the the first word that comes to mind is like there's >> by by taking all of the designs and aesthetics from the other games and putting them in here, which kind of like especially if you're used to them for being in those other games, makes them stand out and, you know, seem really peculiar. But there's a lot of room for them to have really actually done their own thing to like to to the like all the way level redesigns, enemy redesigns, aesthetic redesigns, character changes because it's it's a remake. You have the ability to as long as you stay within sort of the core of what Halo Combat Evolved kind of is. And that's its own discussion how much you could change before it becomes something else. But how much they just want to use the original. Um, but at the same time, like it, like I said, it's it's a messy medley at the same time of things from other Halo games. >> They're picking and choosing. This game is like uh Twitter core where it's like it just has enough where the Halo fans are going online and they're taking screenshots of the cut scenes and posting them. Look how good this looks or like they answered the criticisms like changing the library. That's just something that they can do so that they can say look they're fixing the game on the internet. This game is like made for like clip channels. I don't think it's made to be played. >> I can guarantee it's not meant to be played. As someone who's played it, play it played it through two and a half whatever time. >> Yeah, we have seven victims here today. >> I have it isn't meant to be played. But if but they like see they're willing to remake entire levels like the library, but that should be what you do with every level because it is a >> their remake of the library is atrocious. Oh, no. I know. >> Oh, it's definitely fix broken. I I think they can tweak these levels to make it work with sprint. I'm fine with that. But like the idea of it's a remake. It needs new levels. >> Surely the library is a consequence of the discussion that had happened prior to this game's existence, right? Like library is controversial. Yeah, >> the library is controversial. It's considered one of the worst levels in gaming by people who've played like six games in their entire life. >> They're they're totally wrong, by the way. Replaying uh There are entire games where every level is worse than the library. >> I was entire I was really surprised cuz I I had no idea that that discourse was around. So I finished the library on on OG Halo and someone said, "Oh, you just finished like the most infamous level in gaming." I said, "What exactly is it meant to be hard?" Cuz it wasn't hard. I said, "No, cuz it's meant to be boring, but it wasn't boring. I enjoyed the library. I mean, yeah, it's a bit repetitive. You could shorten it maybe a little bit, but there was nothing about it that stood out to me in the original Halo as being notably bad, either by the standards of its day or hours. Whereas the remake library was tedious. Really tedious. >> Well, that's because the original the the original library it was like you can't just run. They they do keep coming after you. It has like a thematic purpose of showing what the flood will do. And this is what it's like when the flood are everywhere. They just keep coming coming and you have to be making the progress forward as you're following, you know, Guilty Spark. But in the remake, the way that it's designed and the pacing of the level is such that there are just sections where you can just like sit around, take a break, have a smoke. You press the buttons yourself instead of Guilty Spark to get through a lot of the doorways and stuff. So, you set the pace and it completely lacks that sort of endless like I guess tension in in the in the pacing that the original had >> which I really liked as well as the uh the punctuation of the huge ass elevators in the original of being like okay all right that's our like let's just copy the elevator from Halo 2 >> this is what I mean about the gaslighting because I've been playing it I' been like wait I'm being what why is the elevator like an attack Tie. Why are we doing like a hoorde thing where I got to wipe him out and then I get to go? Like what? I think it reminds me of um Amnesia: The Dark Descent where they were like, "We got to provide these moments where you can you enter bluer places with calming music and there's water flow in areas because you've just been through so much intense [ __ ] that if we keep battering you with it, it's just going to become noise. >> Come to it." >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Like because you have to have the the hills and valleys to to reflect each other. And so in the library, I was just like broadly unimpressed with how they had changed anything anyway. Being able to run through it or avoid it, jump through it, laugh at it, and then being like, "Oh, I guess this is the the break time." Just like, "No, this is our new fangled [ __ ] we've got a a rocket flood who keeps respawning at the top. You got to keep I was like, "Good god, you guys [ __ ] suck at this." >> Example of why firefight would not be a good addition to this because the defense sequences in this game are atrocious. They >> sure, especially on the new levels. which uh you know speaking of the level design obviously we've already talked a little bit about uh about the the changes that have been made to a few of these because you know a lot of them are similar but then there are some of them where they're like we can do it better. Uh I've seen people praise that in the new library you're doing like a descent into hell. I don't care. And it doesn't even make sense in terms of uh >> uh what people are saying. >> Are we talking about the goo? Are we talking about the goo? there's a conversation to be had about um maybe maybe a way to to to sort of present it, I guess, to help contextualize it is >> something I like about the original library in terms of the introduction is that you start right next to the thing that you're pursuing for the whole level, which is the index. You start basically next to it and then you loop all the way back around, come back, and then you can get it. I enjoy that as a uh decision. This game does it differently. You start up at the top and then you work your way down to the index which you only see right at the end of the level. I've seen people praise this. I've seen people say that this is a great change. >> Frustrating. >> Um >> it's frustrating. >> The way the reason I think it works in CE is that you're seeing that there's like kind of a mechanical approach. You got this elevator at the top that you need to bring down to finally unlock the index. So, it's not like you can't just Tarzan rope across and actually grab it and be done with the level. Whereas, I don't understand why you can't just like ride a couple sentinels down to the bottom. What is the process that we're doing over the course of the level that makes the index accessible that it wasn't before? >> No, that's gonna bring up the fact like the question of why don't we just teleport to where the index is? Yeah, I mean that's that's my point is that in the original library you have to go through this process of going up to the top and then there's an elevator that comes down. It's like so maybe like the elevators are like a lock system that you go through to finally unlock access to the index. whereas like that probably exists, but it's a lot less obvious in their recreation of the level because you unless you just looked down and zoomed in on it, you wouldn't even really know like what the final objective of the level is when you're playing >> when you're playing this just from the fact that you know you know what this is. It's like how, not to jump ahead, but it's like how Guilty Spark teleports you outside of the library so you can see. It's like, oh, it looks like in Halo 2, it's like, >> what are we doing? Like, >> why are we on this mountain top? What the [ __ ] >> Why are we having this conversation anyway? >> Obviously, another another aspect of the logic of the descent into hell. This is partly talking about the art direction is that there's more goo and floopy flood stuff growing, which um >> ah yes, >> I liked that aspect of 343 Guilty Spark. I don't I don't mind from like a if you're gonna site like a Are you going to cite a lore argument? >> I I think I have to, don't I? >> Um in my Halo CE, you're rebooting it in a sense and so it's like the story's changed a bit where it's like maybe the flood have been here a little longer and they're accumulating biomass. It's not >> like they do the same thing in Halo 2. The flood focus on taking over the library. So, it's like it makes sense that where they start is like their spawn point and then the library is where the goo is >> accumulating, >> but they're still locked in on a lot of things. They're locked in on the timeline for when they got released. And they even keep the Cortana line in um in Keys where she says they're gathering bodies. >> Well, the gathering bodies part and it's like, well, >> that's I don't know why they kept that line if they're going to add the biomass thing. But to me, I like the change just because it adds visual distinction to the level and I think adds to the pacing of like, look, they're dangerous. They're expanding incredibly quickly. >> Um, >> I like it as well from that perspective. It does make them seem like, yeah, this is how quick they start to transform the environment that they're in and infect everything around them. >> This is another example of where like a good idea ends up just getting ruined by something else because I I think I agree that I like the idea principally. It it kind of reminds me of the Zerg from Starcraft and the Necromor Dead Space. Kind of like a combination of that. But in terms of how it comes off in the game because of the lighting, which I guess we'll talk about later, >> every single >> Yeah. Like every single bit of goo is just under a [ __ ] spotlight. So it's like, "Hey, did you notice that we put goo here?" It's never like there there is that one room where I It was on the video a minute ago, Mhler. I can't remember exactly. I think it's in 343 where you walk into the room and there's just [ __ ] goo everywhere on on the opposite room for >> no reason. >> Yeah. And that's that's the first time that you properly see it. And the problem there that I was just like, well, this could have been so much more effective if the room was actually lit in a sort of more dark ambient way. You walk in and as you get closer, you realize, oh my god, that's horrifying and I'm already in the room at that point. The way it goes in the game is that you open the door and bang, look at our goo. like >> that sensation where you encounter something gross, but the the way you find out it's gross is by touching it and you realize, "Oh, I'm already in it." >> Yeah. >> Uh for me, the I I might have the most controversial one then for this. I felt like the goo was noise and I was really annoyed that they'd put it in. I felt like the my experience I think was exactly what they wanted for Combat Evolved. Everything felt off in 343 Guilty Spark to be specific. Everything felt uncomfortable as uh you put it, which is really nicely done. The um the lawn's been mowed, but there's no one around. It's like, why is everything so wellkept in operation almost, but borderline just >> it's like everyone got uh raptured. Like what's going on? And I know that everyone ran away from here terrified. And then you go through a couple rooms and you just see like that's a that's a weird green substance a few drips of on the floor there. What's what is that? I I don't know. And the more you go, the more subtly like increasing elements. And in this game, like by the time you're moving through significant portions of 343 guilty spark, there's just [ __ ] overwhelming amounts of goo to me to the point of being like, oh, this is just completely different now. >> Feels like way more over compensation. It feels like it encroaches a little bit on the the space that's carved out for levels like Cortana in Halo 3 of this is what it looks like when the flood has been at it for a while compared to here where it's meant to be brand new and that it it looks like Cortana by the time that you get to the end. >> I think they strike that balance by having the upper level be mostly goofy and it's when you go down that you kind of experience more of it. I thought 343 Guilty Spark was a breath of fresh air after how absolutely dog [ __ ] like the first five levels were and then it was followed by another four levels of dog [ __ ] >> Wait, really? You you like >> Yeah, there is a clip of like me acknowledging that it felt like a a breath of fresh air because Assault in the Control Room had been so disappointing of a level. It's one of my favorite in CE. And so like to see that they had made a change that felt like meaningfully positive uh was something >> I I strongly disagree. I [ __ ] hated this game. >> This was the turning point in the game where >> Yeah, this this might be my most hated level change. >> I [ __ ] hate it. Like >> I think like I I'm trying to emphasize I had such a bad experience with some of my favorite levels of like Truth and Wreck, Silent Cgrapher. It's such a solid stretch of the game. It's probably the the most levels in a row that are solid starting with >> uh Truth and Wreck and going through to uh the library. Such a solid stretch of the game. So, for Silent Cgrapher to be so bad, for Assault in the Control Room to be so bad, and then for the library to be mostly fine by comparison to those earlier levels, >> I'm interested. So, what specific aspects made you think this is better than the previous five levels? >> Um, sorry, sorry for the gap. No, it's all good. >> It's the switch up. I I like the new lighting just a bit and I like the level design changes and I think it's the switch up from moving away from the brain dead covenant. I I hadn't quite experienced how brain dead the flood could be because the pink sound on this level. >> Um I liked the initial impressions I had of the flood basically and just like I felt like the atmosphere was >> not better than the original but better than the way that the atmosphere had been tackled in prior levels. The difference for me was because I think 343 Guilty Spark hit me quite well in combat evolved. So, I was borderline like I'm looking forward to getting there because now we're almost for the same reasons you've listed there cuz it's like finally we're getting to different enemies and a different approach and they've got some challenges that can be benefited by their lighting systems. You know, like we talked about the Dead Space remake and it's like good god the lighting in that beautiful. >> I feel I have to defend myself and I want to be clear because I'm emphasizing it is not better than the original. It's not even really good. It is better than the way that Silent Cgrapher and Assault in the Control Room were presented. >> I feel like it's it's understandable that I would have a tricky time answering that question because first I have to parse what is really being asked. >> Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. >> I can understand you saying that like it's it it it felt like a breath of fresh air in context with the game itself >> because I streamed the entire game in one sitting. That might be part of it too. I don't know if you guys Yeah, I did as well. split it in half and then well that's interesting >> cuz Patrician and I kind of I'm kind of like in in agreement with Patrician. I think that this level is the high point of the of the remake. Um but again, a lot of that is because of the the ceiling's not exactly high. I do like some of the changes aesthetically. I did enjoy fighting the flood sort of um but like I I wasn't like obviously this isn't as better as good as the original but and there's changes to the three brother guilty spark I do not like >> but I mean I I do think that this is it was certainly was a high point for me where I was like oh okay like I'm like I get what you're trying to do it's not all bad um I like some of the aesthetic changes >> but obviously the original's better >> if I may >> I want to I want to give the the experience of why I do I think it's all bad. So, I go in like super happy and excited to see what they're going to do with this level in theory. And then it's like they've already cut out the the running away government [ __ ] which uh I've already seen the defenses of that being like this is [ __ ] you get it later, so don't worry about it. Like you you get it when But the thing is when you see them running out later, they're running away like you can definitely contextualize that as running from the the Marines anyway, right? like instead of necessarily like just neutally. But then getting into the place itself and then forward from that um I thought that the the lighting was actually all wrong because the how balanced and almost well lit everything was was unsettling to me. Making it dark is almost like too tryhard to me, especially with the noise of the uh the flood. It's like it's like this this level was the creepiest one. >> I just want if if I can go for a few minutes. I've got so much stuff to say. Um if so like this is one of the creepiest levels to me in the original game and now it's like self-aware creepy where it's it's like slapping it in my face over and over again. It's like look how scary this is. we've got all this like alien goo everywhere that you have to avoid all these different different realities of the situation and um and you know making everything super super dark and you know the further you progress then it's like all right so whereas I would have a liinal space where I would have like environmental storytelling I absorb this atmosphere and I move through wondering exactly where I'm supposed to go I'm slightly lost it's almost maze-like an alien in that sense is completely stripped away because of the bonus [ __ ] mechanics we have of one sprint, two AI being unable to deal with me, and three, the checkpoint markers tell me exactly where to go. >> So like in every in every way that they can, I feel they have stripped the experience of 343 Guilty Spark. It's all gone. >> And and I wouldn't say there's nothing there. I'm saying everything that I thought was valuable about the original level that they're adapting has now changed into a completely different remix. It's someone else's idea. >> And let me be clear, I love 343 Guilty Spark, the original. Yes, it's worse than the original. >> Oh, yeah. >> There's there's no debate about that on my front. This is entirely uh it's still better than the remix version of Assault in the Control Room. >> Oh, I'm saying why I hate it basically. That's that's like why it gave me very bad experience. >> Cuz I think in comparison I probably on side with that, but I would also say just on its own terms, this is the part of the game where for me it was going downhill really rapidly. Um that that might be that I hadn't stress tested uh the the first half of the game enough. Um or it might be that I just wasn't >> going like oh yeah this is going well. >> Yeah I am already familiar with Halo so I'm already like >> being super disappointed early on whereas like since you have less familiarity you know you're going to develop it more over the >> Yeah. The raping is new to me. the the specific um the specific reasons though. So like accepting all of that um is I thought this was where enemy AI particularly went downhill. I thought the introduction of the flood was a marked downgrade on anything else I'd experienced in this game so far, never mind by comparison. Um the idea that you introd in the original Halo, obviously you introduce this entirely new enemy type you've not encountered before. They fight differently, they act differently, they swarm. the the idea that you introduce them in this, they immediately start shooting at you from an ineffective range. They're worse and less accurate than any of the Covenant are. There are fewer of them. They're too spread out. They're too spaced out. Um it just felt like it was there's no pressure, but there's also no real difference except that they're more [ __ ] >> So, it's like I'm supposed to be more scared of these guys than the others, but they're all they've all got disabilities. So, like I'm not really feeling the the vibe that they're going for here. I don't mind the aesthetic changes. I I kind of like the Descent into Hell vibe, though. I I would agree that it is it's a bit tryh hard. It's probably not subtle enough. But the main problem was just everything I was interacting with here was it seemed to me so deficient to the task it was set. The original was horrifying. Um the beginning of the remake is kind of horrifying in a different way, but this particular bit is just dull. >> Yeah. Like the the the original version of 343 is like a masterclass of vibes and ambience. Um, we we've already said basically like you just you can feel that something isn't right and you don't know what. The new version has some like horror ideas as we've said, but for me just the fact that it is so much like I mean you guys are saying darker. I I feel like it's brighter just cuz you got these [ __ ] spotlights all over everything. >> It's Yeah. So it it it's less horrific. there's more goo and it feels to me like like slop horror with a nice polished sheen to it rather than like actual horror where it's trying to make you feel a bit uncomfortable. Um, and I also found I don't know if this was the same for you guys on the higher difficulty on on legendary, but um I thought this was easy. Um, I did not die during this level at all. >> The game is easy. >> Yeah. >> Well, sure, but like I I I'm not good at shooting particularly easy. I agree. Yeah, cuz you come out of the end of well comparing this to to uh the end of ctographer that took me I don't know 8 n 10 attempts something like that. This I didn't die once until the wave mode at the at the end of the level because it seems like the all of the all of the flood guys they go down to like a couple of shots from the AR and I was like have I have I just accidentally nudged the difficulty down to easy? Like what's going on? Nope, we're still on heroic. And like that doesn't >> I'm really I'm really glad you said that because I figure that might be a good segue to talk about the weapons and balancing of the weapons >> in this game. >> Well, if there's anything closing on >> I have one comment that's important for 343 Guilty Spark, although it's endemic to other parts of the level. >> The transitions between rooms, they took out a lot of the corners that are in those transitions. the square hallways. They got rid of the square hallways >> and and so now there's a lot of just like you go through a door, there's a straight hallway and then you go through another door and it contributes to the experience of just like hanging out of the door and and plinking at the shields of enemies because you can't enter the room and you have no cover to retreat to in that hallway. Uh it's endemic across the entire game. uh that problem. And it's weird because you would think that they would just keep that because they're a they're into the coverbased shooting mechanics. >> And if you are going to make that change to try and stop people cheesing by hiding around corners, then you really need enemies that can deal with long straight corridors. >> Yeah. Well, it also contributes to the problem of sprinting through the level because if it had the original hallways, you know, you'd have to take three turns to get through those hallways, whereas now you just like run straight through. >> Yeah. You just Yeah. You and you don't have the opportunity to surprise people. Just the fact that you know that to get from one like area to the next, one big room to the next, you're going to have to pass through a corridor that is a square, which has four corners that you have to get around and the two, you know, the the two rooms on either side. You don't know if there could be something around the corner, but you know that there are corners and there could be. And it's just it's more claustrophobic. You have to go through, turn, go through, turn, then go through the door. >> Um, and yeah, by just by just making them short little bitty hallways that connect the the bigger rooms, >> you do lose a bit of the vibe. >> And even then, because there's opportunities they have to try and do some jump scary type stuff, cuz some of these corridors will have little doors off to the side. And the idea is that the flood is supposed to jump out of that as you cross it. you may not have seen it or you might only see it in the last second and they jump out and attack you. But because threat detection in this game sucks ass, um I would walk like down a corridor, I would notice basically as I was passing it, oh, there's a door on the side. I look through the door and there's just a couple of floods just hanging out, chilling maybe for 2, three, four, five seconds and then they would suddenly notice me. So the intended effect just doesn't exist. That that was an opportunity which the original Halo managed. They managed to actually, you know, swarm you, jump you, surprise you, ambush you. In this one, you will ambush them by accident and they don't even notice it. >> The um the I don't know how you're structuring this, Ringy, but like because we maybe we'll talk about cutscenes later, but like the the I'll just I guess I'll just briefly mention that the cutscene in which the flood is revealed was like one of the very few highlights for me for this game. >> Oh, you mean you talking about the recording >> aliens on it? >> Yeah. Wow. >> Uh >> because I see positive aspects of it, but then also like it just I feel like it drags out with like there's a little bits of like Milsim autism spread in of like look, he's tapping his shoulder to let his comrade know that he's behind like stuff like that. >> We could uh we could we can come back to this. I uh I figured then we could we could talk about the story. >> Yeah. How much game we have left to cover? Uh there there there are a few things that I think are still worth hitting on. Um one of them is what I mentioned before, which is weapons and balancing. Uh particularly because there's something to be said for this game, adding in new weapons that weren't present before and uh as well as making changes to uh to some of the weapons. So I guess >> yeah, let's start with the existing weapons because boy, do I have some [ __ ] to say about them >> before we Yeah. So, so um the most notable change to the uh to the existing weapons is that the AR has gone from 60 rounds to 36 rounds, which means that it is more in line with the design philosophy of later Halo games compared to kind of a very specific niche that it has in the first game that isn't really >> it is unique to that game. Yeah, in the original Halo, it functions more of like a more of an SMG really because of its accuracy, how many rounds that it has, and how fast that it fires. >> It's kind of more like category where it's a bullet hose with a high capacity, but it does low damage and >> crowd control LMGs are accurate and the AR in the original is not. So, >> well, yeah. And and that's also like a notable difference as well is not only does it have less rounds, but it has been made into more of a almost precision weapon. >> I I think I think the intention was it's a general purpose weapon that fills a broader niche so that >> because you can use it at like absurdly long ranges to and it can head enemies if you haven't noticed. >> Yeah. Um, so I think it they wanted to broaden its niche, but then they kept the functionality of the old AR with the SMG, but then the SMG is very inconsistent in when it appears. So I don't know why the way >> No, I don't know why you use it, but I mean, I think it's another aspect of like similarly to sprint where you've changed something as fundamental as the base gun's aim, accuracy, power, >> but not the overall level. So, what I I hated when I first started playing original Halo that one of my least favorite guns is the main AR because it was trying to force me to play in a way that I don't typically play shooters. I'm I'm kind of one of those really annoying, boring type people who likes sitting a long way away sniping people. And there's not many guns in original Halo you can do that with. But once I'd kind of accepted that that was going to be the case, this is sort of a short medium range shooter, had a lot more fun because I'd stopped resisting what the game was trying to make me do and it didn't give me any tools really to do what I wanted to do. So, that was good and I embraced what the game was doing and had a lot of fun with that. This game has turned the AR occasionally into a kind of sniper, which I should like more, but I don't because none of the enemies can deal with me at the range I can deal with them. >> Yeah, it's everything about the gunplay is now kind of unbalanced. >> And what's worse, there is an enemy that can deal with you that shows up on the remix mode. It's the needle rifle elites. they will punish that behavior, but they're super rare in the base game and they are way too punishing in that in that >> um you know in terms of uh there there are a lot of new weapons that have been added to the game, but the v the amount in which they show up varies depending on essentially whether we're playing the main game or the new one. Uh the new levels like for instance the uh the you know I've heard I've heard a certain person call it a plasma sword. The plasma sword is uh is present in u now where whereas in the original game there were zealots that had energy swords but um but you know when you killed them they they would explode. It's the same with grunts that had fuel rod cannons. When you when you killed them they would uh they would explode. Both now present. >> Yep. >> My note on this is when they first revealed that this game was going to be a thing. They showed it's Halo. It's got the original Halo designs and then Master Chief pulls out an energy sword, which I felt like was the sign, the moment that like there's going to be needless meddling because the energy sword is not an iconic weapon of this game. I don't mind that it's in this game, but if your opening teaser trailer of this is going to be, look at how much we're going to be changing things. You're inviting a degree of blackpilling on the subject because you're just basically bragging like, look, look, we're going to molest your favorite thing. I think that the black is totally reasonable. Like I tagline for this game. I feel exactly the same way, which is on paper, the idea that you're adding in weapons that were present in some capacity in the original game that there were intentions to have be present in the original game that I believe even got added in on like the PC port. Um, like on its face that seems like it could be great, but the problem is you have to balance it. the original game, you know, whether you like it or not, it it it isn't designed with you having an energy sword. It isn't designed around you having a fuel rod cannon as like an alternative to the rocket launcher or Yeah. And then when you add in sprints as well, like any change that you make has a domino account for >> I think the the fuel rod gun is an even worse example of it than the energy sword. I almost found the energy sword like laughably useless. I'm not the biggest fan. >> I felt I felt the same way. The fuel rod gun just [ __ ] obliterates the balancing of >> Oh, the fuel rod was in was amazing. Give me that [ __ ] Every time I saw it, I picked it. It was like the >> It was like the sentinel beam or the needle rifle where I was like, "Oh [ __ ] these are this is one of the king weapons I've >> w all new weapons and they're all ruining the balance." >> Um the rate of fire and the ammo capacity on that is considerable relative to the rocket launcher. >> There's no drop off either. There's no arcing that you have to deal with >> on all these gun did exist in the original PC port, but it was multiplayer only. So, >> yes, clarified. >> Nice and autistic with with guns in games, right? It's like they're all technically the same. They all deal damage over time with an amount of accuracy, but then they all get tweaked and often times reflect like real guns, but that the whole idea when they build these games up is like, well, we want you to have something that hits hard but rarely, or something that hits really far, but has very few ammo or few fire rate or whatever. and then something that hits loads really up close or super damage really up close but again sacrifices all these different things the basic concept of balance. So the AR was a like a insane revelation when I was playing this game for the first time. I was just like holy [ __ ] they've boosted this thing so hard it might be the the number one gun for the whole game. I just may as well just stick to it. >> I really had a glow up. It's it's universally useful because the AR was like marginally useful against the flood. It could do decent damage. It was good against infection forms. But now that it can headshot, it can just one-shot half of the the flood combat forms. >> Yeah. And I think it throws the game off completely, especially when they allow you to just take the 60 rounds with no punishment, too. He's like, "Oh, I guess I will." >> The crazy part is that you can take 60 with no punishment. It's like, "Oh, you made it like kind of a super weapon now, where the AR has never ever been a super weapon. Yeah, that is not the point of the AR." >> Somehow even more powerful than like the Halo Infinite AR. And it's weird because the assault rifle has always like fluctuated. It's always been a weapon that's been >> uh gone back and forth. It's not even in Halo 2. That's how much that weapon has gone back and forth in the way that the games are balanced. >> Well, yeah. And I think that by three in reach, you've got like the correct balance, which is it's pretty versatile, but it's got a pretty shallow magazine, which means that a lot of the time you're probably going to run out of ammo just at a inopportune moment, which then for I mean, I'm pretty sure Bungie has talked about this that they they wanted to make it so that it's you're more encouraged to use melee or grenades because of the shallow magazine. >> Yeah, I saw >> which I think I think makes a lot of sense. Um, I I don't disagree with the assessment that the energy sword is like a bit laughable in this game, but I did see it as kind of a meme weapon and so I took it around a lot cuz I enjoyed just lunging and slicing and >> it's perfect for taking the piss out of the game. >> That's where I was going to go with that. It's like >> one particular skin as well. It's just like it's just >> um whereas I think the developers might have watched me play it and be like, "Aha, so we added it and it added a whole bunch of fun for you." I'd be like, "Oh, no, no, no. I'm like I'm like enjoying how much I can just [ __ ] around and be nonsense with it. I can't believe you put this [ __ ] thing in. And the the most accentuated part for me with that was where you first get onto truth and reconciliation and you uh you know in in Combat Evolved it's creepy that it's like oh there's no one here. It's like huh and then your radar will be like red markers and you can look over and there's nothing there because that's your first major intro introduction to a camo elite with uh >> we have uh we we could talk about yellow in a >> Yeah, I'm not talking about that. I'm I what I mean is like okay so you start shooting them and you can see the it's it's doing something get them before they start killing your soldiers and if you're lucky and I said you know what I mean by this someone on your team will get killed first without even realizing what's going on and you can't see anyone and it's just like what a cool encounter that they've made for you understanding these guys and trying to deal with them >> but now like I kill one of them but they drop a sword >> and I could oh well there's there's that too yeah multiple playthroughs and stuff but uh the sword made that part kind of funny for me cuz like kill grab sword that I could just sprint around in circles and just insta-kill all of the uh the guys as they were coming out. >> I want to add the sword is even more useless on the new levels. That's the confusing part is like new weapon. You would think that it would serve a useful function in the prequel missions, but the the new levels are so [ __ ] wide open. >> The sword is just dog [ __ ] >> Oh yeah. And just to just to close off on that, what I was saying is that that encounter's completely changed like its meaning by adding different weapons or changing the balance of different weapons, which is supposed to be just microcosm of what they've done to the whole game with this. We'll get to the the number one weapon that I think that does this. But someone just mentioned like, I thought you didn't like the energy sword cuz the lunge was inconsistent. I think that the the bashing the melee in this whole [ __ ] game is inconsistent. Uh I didn't have anywhere near as much issue in combat evolved where I was just killing [ __ ] by punching it. In this game, I would punch so many [ __ ] times and it would completely miss. And I would slice with the sword and it would completely [ __ ] miss. And I was just like, "Okay, try not to lose my [ __ ] mind." >> The sword can't instant kill the elites. >> Yeah, there's there's a lot of that, too. But I just mean the difference between hearing the sound and it's knocked his shield off versus nothing at all, >> which is driving me insane. >> Feedback problem. >> Yes. >> Some just with melee in general, cuz when you get meleeed by certain enemies, it feels like just nothing happened. Dude, rags, you had so many funny deaths with uh like meie deaths where they would hit you and you were miles away and the body just goes flying. You were like, "Excuse me." >> Yeah, it was it was frustrating. I mean, I Oh, I guess uh because it that comment you said just reminded me when we talk about AI. Um I think the worst AI in this game is actually the hunter AI. Um, I had a lot of weird weird issues with uh fighting hunters and that the the obvious point of the hunters is that if they get close to you and hit you, they'll either kill you outright or do a lot of damage. But when they swing and they miss, they leave their backs vulnerable for you to shoot them. But in this game, the way that the the hunters are programmed is that if you try to like get close to them or are around them, they will often specifically backpedal away from you while trying to shoot you with their gun. so that you could not interact with them in any way. And it was incredibly frustrating to have this happen >> because it's so different from how like any of the hunters from the other games behave. They were like they were purposfully trolling you like oh I know you you know we know that you know as a player you're make them more dangerous is one of the only AI changes that I could all I could kind of see myself defending is that the hunters in the original Halo were a little bit too easy to deal with. So and I didn't even know you could one-shot them with a pistol. So when I found out that then I was happy. But um but in this one cuz they don't lock into melee as early and they don't get stuck in melee for the entire time either. You do have to deal with them slightly more seriously. And I think I I think I prefer them in this version to the original, but it's the only time I'm going to say that. >> You're going to prefer literally any other version than the base Halo C. They're very >> You'll run towards them. You'll be very close to them when they are all basically within arms length, but they will still backpedal away from you faster than you can catch them so that they can shoot you with the fur gun against. >> You're like appealing to the dance between the player and the AI is [ __ ] up. Like they're not they're not reacting in a way that creates satisfying cuz I I remember watching you deal with it and um it's between cuz I agree with you on on a lot of how you're contextualizing that the tank flood is just [ __ ] outright. the brute, like I was shown in that clip, they're also pretty [ __ ] The the difference here is that the hunters aren't [ __ ] but they're built in such a way that's extremely unsatisfying for a lot of player engagement. >> They're Yeah, they're specifically acting they're I think I described it as they're acting like a player >> where if like if if you were playing where if a player was in control of a hunter and had to kill Master Chief in the game and Master Chief was being controlled by another player, then that is exactly what you would do. you would know that, oh, I'm vulnerable from behind and in and like the the other person's trying to bait me into a melee. I will never ever do that ever under any circumstance. I will stay at a distance at all times and shoot my fuel rod gun because that is obviously what you're supposed to do. But that's not how the game is designed. >> It does ramp up to a certain level of difficulty with them as well where the incentive to cheese them becomes almost unavoidable. So most of the enemies in this game have a specific kind of [ __ ] threshold where if you get a certain distance away from them, they just forget that you exist and they [ __ ] off the way you deal with the new ones cuz they're almost so defensively good that you have to do that to them to get past them. So though I prefer them, they still have problems. >> There's there's a few AI notes with the hunters that I want to do. First of all, they don't enrage anymore when you kill their partner, which was a staple behavior after well, they they really do it in Halo C, but they especially do it in the later games. So, it's weird that you can kill one of the hunters and the other hunter does no longer enrages because that that it adds to the pressure of it because now you have another hunter who's like trying to melee you to death. But the other thing is they have an interesting behavior. If you they if you shoot their neck, they will raise their shield to kind of protect their weak points. They do this also when you shoot their right knee, which the shield does not block. So, you can just sit there with the sentinel beam and just shoot their right knee until they fall over and they won't defend themselves. >> I definitely noticed it was a lot easier to kill them from the front in the way that their their weak point on the stomach specifically was like kind of easy to hit. There would be multiple times, especially in the new levels when they would introduce the um when they'd introduced the hunters and you had a huge space to work with. You could just kind of like shoot them in the front a bit. They would be they they would be weirdly vulnerable from the front in that particular area >> because they just facing you >> and you you could you stun lock them. You could stun lock the hunters with the particle beam rifle. I noticed a lot of the times if you you shot them in the back, you'd get the hit marker. They would kind of jerk forward a little bit and then you shoot them again, they jerk forward a little bit. you you'd stun lock them until they just died. But I also noticed that there seemed to be a lot of inconsistency with what would kill hunters from behind in terms of like the pistol or other guns to where it was weirdly like how come when I shoot you, you know, four, five, six times, you're still not dead. Like this is weird. Am I staggering disconnect or desync? >> Sometimes like a a sticky grenade will stagger them and sometimes it won't. It makes them very dangerous up close because you cannot rely on something staggering them if they get in too close because they can instantly melee kill you. Now, that is a new feature. >> I'm just reminded because of uh the beam rifle is another weapon that's been added to this game, which means that on Truth and Reconciliation, you can run through a substantial amount of the level with two sniper weapons, >> right? >> Which >> there's another example, isn't it? It was like, do you think that they built this with that in mind? Do you think it would cause any imbalance here? >> Or do you think that or do you think that the level is specifically designed with only one sniper weapon with a fixed amount of ammo that you're going to have for the whole, you know, opening portion of the >> generous amount of level on truth and reconciliation, so it doesn't affect it too much. Honestly, the beam rifle felt [ __ ] useless. Well, yes, cuz uh I just figure it's worth bringing up that it has been added in and that's the case because >> there is one super weapon in this game and it is a new weapon >> and it is one that is actually present on um on uh on keys. It is in the in the uh the main campaign but not much. It's mainly in the prequel levels and that is the needle rifle. Holy rifle, my best by far. It is the super weapon of this game. It is insanely powerful. It's so powerful that on the prequel levels, even on legendary, I would much rather carry around an empty needle rifle uh so that I don't miss any opportunities to pick up ammo automatically while I'm going through that level. It is [ __ ] powerful. >> There's a level. There's a level design consideration of that because there's so many weapon that'll just have like extra needle rifle ammo in them. So, it's like those levels were definitely designed in the 343 style of you're supposed to be running around with a precision weapon because there's so many large combat arenas that like >> precision weapon combat is the name of the game. >> We uh we talked about a little bit, but um the level design is [ __ ] [ __ ] on these levels. Do you just have a whole bunch of corridors where you're gated in your ability to progress by Johnson, but then you open up massive open with enemies that spill in from various different corners of the room over and over and over again that you can't escape from. And often with the seemingly thoughtless um configurations of enemies of like yeah that door will open and then you'll just have like three brutes um like two jackals. You have six grunts spill through that one and then over in that one you have two hunters. You'll have four sniper jackals which we didn't talk about but sniper jackals have been added into this game. [ __ ] brilliant. That >> very good idea that um got to be careful with enemies like that. Yeah. >> The thing that will save you. It will save you and you will learn it eventually because at first you might not expect it cuz remember the needle rifle is meant to effectively be the Covenant equivalent of the DMR. It's like a versatile weapon, but it's not it's not meant to be a super weapon in Halo Reach. It just isn't. It isn't nearly as powerful as it is in this game. >> There's no UNC counterpart. Like the battle rifle kind of shows up in the prequel mission and that that's about it. Like you just don't get to use the battle rifle and it's not very good to begin with. So like the needle rifle takes over as the >> defactor the needle rifle. The needle rifle for reference you can kill like wide elite zealots. You can kill them in about five or six shots. And this is a weapon that has 84 well actually more than that if you include over 100 rounds. Um, >> the funny part is it's balanced in a way where when you pick up a needle rifle, you you don't even get like one full mag of ammo for it because they knew how powerful it was. They can't pick up when you pick up the assault rifle, you get like four reloads by default. >> Yes. Look at that. Look at how effortlessly Yeah. Effortless >> that that it's soane. It's so >> It's so good. It's funny because you guys were talking about the fuel rod cannon and I agree. Fuel rod cannon is super useful. A lot of the time on these levels, if the choice was a fuel rod cannon or a needle rifle, I'm taking the needle rifle. It's got wayfle is the remix mode where the needle rifle very inconsistently shows up compared to the fuel rod gun. But on these levels where they just spam the [ __ ] needle rifle in every room with ammo crates like it's the goddamn light enemies using it, too. >> Yeah. Like of course you're going to use it the entire [ __ ] stretch of the prequel. That's so perfect because they they keep making this same mistake. >> Um, this is a very 343 mistake. Whatever could be said about the cuz every game usually has some kind of dominant weapon. You know, Halo Combat Evolved has the pistol. That's a super versatile go-to useful weapon. Halo 2 has a battle rifle. Halo 3 is probably the most balanced in this regard. Um, and that I don't know that it could be said that there is necessarily one weapon that you would want to be keeping all the time, like in all instances. Um, but in this case, they basically turn the needle rifle into a power weapon, which it never was. It's not a power weapon, but it was never like, I should always pick this up at the exclusion of everything. >> I should pick this up the exclusion of a [ __ ] rocket launcher or fuel rod cannon. It's like Yeah. >> Yeah. Why would you pick up a rocket launcher and legendary especially if it won't Yeah. If it won't even kill an elite in one >> kill doesn't kill things like >> I can kill There's more there's more dead elites in the in the in the needles I can carry than in the rockets I can carry. Which means we're not rockets. We're carrying needles. >> Patrician. On the note of killing one and it doesn't matter to the other. This is such a funny bit of level design of just like here I go run it again. I was like, "Oh, well, dead." Is there another one in here? It's like, "Oh, hello." "Oh, well, dead. >> Goodbye." >> The thing is is um cuz someone's asked, "Isn't the Halo 3 battle rifle a jack of all trades weapon, too?" I think there's there is a difference between >> there's sort of a difference between it's like a fine line. There's you have cuz the pistol is super useful in combat evolved. It is like really really handy to have. But there will be times it's too good. Yeah, it it it might be too good. Yes. I mean, and it's reflected in the fact that all the other games have uh nerfed the the pistol >> to even the original. Yeah, >> pretty much. Cuz it's super >> at least a pistol. It has a utility function in the later games. >> Yes, that's right. >> I mean, it has a utility function now that it EMPs vehicles. I like >> just ran past this guy. He just didn't even care. He just ran past that dude on the bridge. Wait, did he run off the bridge? Oh, did he fall off? Cuz I ran back off. >> I ran past him and then Oh, wait. Yeah, hang on. >> Oh, did he just decide that the first one here is just needle rifle and then I'm just like I want to get to a checkpoint. >> Said, "Fuck this." If you're not going to take it seriously, neither am I. >> Yeah, I think he walked off the bridge and he just died. the fact you can you can kill any elite any elite no matter how powerful in about five or six shots with a weapon that has over 100 rounds of ammo. Now, if you could only carry 50 or 40 something and it was like this is kind of like a like a mini power weapon sort of, then I'm be like, okay, you know, they they they're changing its role a bit and I'm like, okay, that's one thing, but you can car there are so many dead elites worth of needles you can car this few of the common weapons on these levels as well because the brute plasma rifle is also pretty powerful uh specifically against elites. And then the spiker. This is probably the most powerful spiker uh incarnation yet. >> That that's probably is which which yeah, it is pretty funny that the balance becomes particularly [ __ ] on their new level, which um I will say is something of a blessing because uh I don't know about you guys, but the last the last room on level one and two of the three prequel levels was so [ __ ] Yeah, the play area, the arena that you're in, where the enemies enter and where the cover is, >> it just they just don't mix. They don't mix well. And I think that um I think when when Patricia and I and Andy and I were playing this, I think I said when it came to a lot of these arenas that you're in in these in the prequel missions, I was like, you know, you could probably just like draw all of these levels from memory and you'd probably basically get them right because they're like symmetrical circles >> with random pillars. You know, >> my favorite part though is uh Oh, by the way, I do enjoy cuz I saw that uh I saw that M you were jumping between uh levels. Did you enjoy the gondola section uh where in third person you're [ __ ] flooping all over the surface because it can't handle it? Yes. Like your movement speed is increased on the gondola to the point that you could accidentally throw yourself off. >> I love that. >> Um I was looking when is the big cancerous room. >> So you' be looking at sort of the big one is level one. It's the last one. So you'd be looking around one and a half two hours in to to playing through the the prequel. or after the worst cut scene in Halo history. >> Uh, I'm pretty sure it's uh Wait, which one? >> Which one's Which one are you talking about? >> I'm talking about the Mario >> cut scene with >> It's after that. It is after that. It's after that one. >> I do like Which one? >> Oh, another brute [ __ ] AI just breaking. >> I think we might ar >> No, it's it's it's after it's the last you're past. >> That's right. It's before you go out into the hunting area. >> Oh, is it when you kill the high value target guy? >> No, there's two ring. It's two rings. There's snipers. That was my level. There's two shade cannons and it's like wave defense. >> Yeah, I know what you mean. >> This is the room I was looking for. Or one of them anyway. >> Oh, this big ass one. Yeah, >> the giant over the first time. >> Yes. Here you go. I hate this room. >> This room is a great example of their level design, I would say. >> Yeah. This is why you could draw this room from memory because when they >> when they make new levels, they make these big ass open [ __ ] spaces where it would take forever to run across without sprint. So, >> and yeah, this is yet another instance where you can see how insecure cuz behind all of these staircases is [ __ ] tons of weapons and over shields, camo because that weapons weirdly >> it's a gauntlet. So, they got to give you tools to survive the gauntlet, >> but it's just there's not I think I think it's just how lazy it is. It's like, yeah, this is the room where you have to kill like 100 enemies. So, here's >> I think this is the one where my my avengeable thing was I'm just going to run around the top and let Johnson deal with them because he has a really powerful sniper rifle and he can't die because he just gets sent to the nether world of the force and then he comes back. >> Yes, he goes the will between worlds. But, I liked watching brutes mess around with their friendlies. It was fun. I will say it's either we're talking about either these sorts of arenas because essentially you you have these big open shitty arenas where the cover and the enemy spawn points are all borked or you have what happens for the vast majority of encounters >> which is essentially this picture. It is a hallway, >> a door, >> and then there is a then then there is a room where the developers think, "Oh, if we put seven elites in here and a bunch of other [ __ ] then uh then that's just going to be the game." And when you recize that's a pattern, you notice it all the time in these levels and these designs. >> 15 times in a row, that's your game. >> Yeah. Now do it 15 times. The most iconic one for me, >> the most iconic one for me is on Truth and Reconciliation is the [ __ ] gravity lift sequence where they're coming down and there's 15,000 waves that come down and you just get pushed back to the entrance of that area. And of course, they took all the curves and cover out of that hallway. So like you have to hide at the back because their pathf finding won't go down that little hallway and then like peek back out. Yep, you're you're finding it. >> Oh, wait. I uh the one that jumped out to me was um it's after you save keys and you got >> him. This is it, right? >> Yeah. And there's a I think you just there's a big hallway. There's a big hallway and when the door opens there's about seven [ __ ] but also a [ __ ] sniper jackal and there's just a straightaway. It's just I Yeah, it's this room. It's this [ __ ] room. I remember I was like what? >> Yeah. All of us have fun experiences with this one cuz it's just the shackle with no combo. >> You're dealing with chunks of HP. The enemies have you get the these massive chunks of HP you have to eat through with like needlers and plasma pistols just cuz they're just there just so many in the room and you can only do so much damage before the door closes or they just shoot in a tiny little hallway. >> I like it because it's a new room too. So it's like they added a new thing to truth and reconciliation and it [ __ ] sucks compared to the >> truth and reconciliation. Yeah. No, it's a little bit you know repetitive at times. So, let's add this room. >> There was another Johnson related strategy you could use. I don't know if I used it in this corridor, but it worked in others is that because you can shove him around. I just used him as a meat shield. >> So, like if you crouch behind him and just shove him forward down the corridor, you shoot over his shoulder and they just shoot at him and miss you completely. And it's a surprisingly effective approach. >> I would not have thought to think to do that because the first time I played this on the second level, if Johnson got the final kill of a defense wave, it would soft lock the level. So, I would be scared to let Johnson do anything because I would be constantly paranoid that he's just going to soft lock the game again. >> Um, Rags, like obviously part of the trouble you were experiencing when I was watching this on Legendary, then playing it on Legendary was uh a lot of the damage you can do is not enough that it kills any one elite. So, you have to back off before you can access. So, they regen all the time. Your solution was to eventually chip them down, you know, stay moving, all that sort of stuff. I went just forward to the left into the uh the sort of brrig like there there's prison cells and then plasma pistol and alternate just just charge fire shoot and and always it was can I stay out long enough that I can kill one elite and then I'll run away. >> You know what that's exactly how we solved it too. That side room with the brrig. That's exactly how we dealt with this because it's too big of a room. They they stick to the opposite end and the door they Why is there no corner closer to the door that you can use for cover? Like there's just so many. >> How come the hallway isn't like a T junction? How come you get into the room >> and there's like an elevated area you start off in? It's just >> but it's like it's the pattern of the com. It is it is again hall door. It's the straight hallway door and then room full of [ __ ] you elites. It happens. So >> the only option they have is is what you see in the >> air fights. Your ass is getting jumped in this game. >> Well, yeah, cuz that's something as well that was driving me crazy on the prequel levels is they do like they don't give a [ __ ] if you're in front of a door. They will spawn the enemies behind you at that particular door. Like they don't care. They do not care about like, oh well, you're standing with your back to this door, so maybe we should try and account for that a little bit. Now, I know that every Halo game has had some issues in that regard, but they were like particularly pronounced on these levels. >> Well, I think part of what it is is that Truth and Reconciliation is already a very difficult level in the base game. >> It is. Yeah, it's a tough one. And then adding in this [ __ ] is just cuz this was the one that I had the most difficulty with on Legendary. Once I got past Truth and Reconciliation, it was kind of a cakewalk. >> Um, it was really relatively straightforward >> with a few small like exceptions. It really was. Um, it really was pretty easy. TNR's big like it's big issue with me was again it was the hanger where you had the seven elite at the bottom. >> You guys were complaining that they're not punishing you for being able to sprint by. This is how they punish you. >> This is the solution to the door. >> I think on heroic I actually did >> try to sprint by this one. Yeah. Like it's tough but you can do it. It's so [ __ ] funny though because you you you see like, oh great, eight elites, 10 jackles, whatever the [ __ ] And then you get through those two double doors and it's like three more elites staring at you in the hallway, maybe some hunters. You're just like, yeah, why not? Just Yeah, just more. Why not? >> I will say um I my patience was most tested in this regard on the last room on the second level of the prequel ones where you do get the high value target because you're spawned into a room. >> Oh, that two doors. There's two doors off on the sides, two doors on the bottom, and then one door at the top. Um, you cannot move around this environment on legendary because the enemies will spawn behind you and kill you. And among the enemies that will spawn and kill you is zealots uh with swords that are invisible, which is just fantastic. And what I what I was feeling on that level is, dude, I am like playing maximally, not to toot my own horn, but I I knew exactly where the enemies were going to spawn because I died so many times. as soon as they came out of the rooms with my needle rifle as it just felt like it was a game of chance to get enough shots off that they're going to manage him down or not. You know, >> this is yet another and there are many examples of just the game is a [ __ ] breeze and then suddenly it's a horrifying, you know, monster of a >> This is definitely going into my uh this is going into my mind as an example of games with difficulty spikes. This is the one that we've been talking about with the second uh prequel mission. >> Yep. >> Show the one I linked earlier because I want to explain that too. >> Just horrendous. >> And and the only cover that you have that is far away from the doors is like movable cover. It's like one of the movable sort of rectang. Yeah. Brilliant stuff. >> Maybe they knock it into a useful spot. Who knows? because of how the doors are positioned. There it is. >> Yeah, this room is [ __ ] cancer as well. Yes, >> I hate this one, too. >> This is the one that made me >> This made me quit. >> It nearly made me quit completely. Like, because I was like, I'm I'm done with the campaign. Can I be bothered to finishing the rest of this? >> Yeah. The way you beat this is you go into that door on the second level. When it opens, you go into that door and sit in the back because they will spawn in front of you and you can more easily kill them. And that's >> I wish I knew that. I didn't do that. >> Yeah, that's really the only easy way to deal with this because of how just you get jumped. >> I stayed off by the entrance. I was at the entrance because I was I was worried about enemies spawning from behind me. But yeah, know that makes a lot more. >> It's just Why is Joshua smiling? >> Oh yeah, you like my Joshua Graham Vtuber model. >> I think that's uh if you haven't seen my streams, I have a lot of these lot of models like these. >> No, that's great. I think it is interesting how like the the worst levels in this game are the ones that they made and couldn't just ape the design off of someone else from it. Is a staggeringly stark um like transition >> into how like into the worst parts. It is it is super noticeable how much worse their own levels are >> just how indulgent in their conviction they are with these levels. I would go as far as saying that they probably when when you know recreating the old ones were probably like >> okay look at you're like oh put a hallway there I'll put this there oh that's that's nice but you know hey we've got we got our levels down >> here I I I have an idea hallway door seven elites >> genius >> big open space 50 enemies spill in from all four corners >> jump press button Can Can we show the grav lift one that I linked? >> Uh, yes. >> Because this is another se I felt this was probably one of the more iconic like you just [ __ ] this sequence up completely. >> Well, why don't you explain why as I grab it. >> The icon. >> Um, so it is the encounter in Truth and Reconciliation where you're assaulting the grav lift. And generally you're given time to like clear out the shade turrets and move your way up. But what ends up happening is that on the higher difficulties, they're so aggressive because the projectiles are so fast. You take damage so fast and you have nowhere to hide here that the do the each time I've played this, even when I was doing it on co-op with Rags and Andy from Bunker Dweller, we were still consigned to hiding at the back of this little area because they cannot pathf find past that little archway unless they're a melee unit. >> Oh, yeah. This Yeah, this choke point. Yeah. on every playthrough. This is what regardless of difficulty they because they would just not follow you because they would sort of go forward and then double back instinctual the way the level structure >> because you want to bottleneck but then it's like don't worry you won't need to bottl neck cuz they can't even get through like >> they change that hallway there. That hallway is more curvy and has corners that you can hide behind whereas like because it's just a straight shot you have to go all the way to the back of it, >> right? Um Yeah. And then it kind of just cancels out all the design of that area. It's like why you don't even engage with it. >> I take chip damage. I turn around. I sprint away and go looking for another weapon because I'm out of ammo. >> Well, I remember uh Rags, you got I think you got insta-killed here with a plasma pistol charge, right? One of many times. >> You'll have to be many times. >> So, here's here's the thing. So, um so the first day after the main release, I think this is like on the 20. In fact, I can just pull it up on Steam here. It is on. Oh, there's a lot of notifications for people's achievements. It is on. It was like a day after it released for everyone else. They had that 20.2 gig patch and in the patch notes was, "Yeah, we fixed an issue where players would be instantly killed by the charged plasma shot when they had full shields." >> Day one or >> day pre- purchase period, they said that that was a bug that was going on. >> But here, but an issue is that it's one of the Yeah. here. The July 29th update, download size 20.2 gigs. A charged plasma pistol shot no longer kills players who have full health and shields on any difficulty. However, it is by design in the remake that if you have health, if you have full health and you are shot by a charged plasma shot, you die. That takes off all of your health. It is, it will kill you, bring you from everything to nothing in one hit. Now, I as far as I'm aware, >> surely they mean full health, but no shields. Surely they can't mean full health, full shields. It's supposed to do that. >> Well, that No, it's it wasn't supposed to do that. That was the bug. However, the intentionality is that if you get hit, if you're at full everything and you get hit by a charge plasma shot, at least on legendary, it takes off all of your shields and some of your health. But I think on any difficulty, if you are shot by a charged plasma shot, which homes in on you, and a lot of enemies use that against you because they have plasma pistols, it will kill you because it gets rid of all your health. And I don't think that it's this way in the other Halo games. It's not meant to be used against enemies that have health and no shields because the utility is that it strip shields. So in their infinite wisdom, they thought that they they thought they knew better than Bungie and said, "You know what? This thing just kills you. If even if you don't have shields, but you have full health, this just kills you. And yeah, you could use it against the enemies if you if you want. You could do that. Sure. The trade-off is that that they can do that [ __ ] to you. And it's very frustrating. >> It's weird because when it wouldn't instant kill me, >> I would notice >> Sorry. Uh when it wouldn't instant kill you, I would notice you would lose all your shields and half your health. So, I thought that was the amount of damage it was supposed to do. I don't know what this it's supposed to instant kill you meme is because it was already not instant killing you sometimes. Um there I think if there's inconsistencies with the damage I do to enemies I could totally believe that there's a lot of inconsistencies with the damage that's being done to me. Sometimes though, it's hard to exactly tell because the issue with a charged plasma shot just killing you in one hit if you don't have any shields is that um if you're facing a number of enemies and some of them just shoot you with their normal plasma shots and they get rid of your shields relatively quickly, it just so happens that one of those guys that shot you did so with a charge shot. And if that hits you a millisecond after your shields have been stripped by the normal shots, it feels like you've been instantly killed, like you've been shot by a sniper rifle in the face or something when that's not what happened. So that's why a lot of the deaths feel so sudden and fair and you wonder what the hell happened. But again, that's probably why Bungie's original design was that no, it's utility to strip shields, not to kill players at full health, especially because it comes from a plasma pistol, the most common weapon in the game, and it homes in on people. But >> I guess Halo Studios 343, I guess they thought they knew better. And we're suffering the pain of that decision to this very day. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean the dichotomy of Halo C is you have some weapons that are good against shields and you have some good weapons that are good against uh health >> have roles. Yeah, weapons have roles, you know, >> that's more than others >> because little platoon was talking about how his experience with shooters is like probably like a Call of Duty where it's like you have 15 assault rifles and they're like almost all nearly identical in that they're a gun with 30 rounds that you know shoots pretty fast, kills in a couple seconds. Like whereas in Halo, every weapon fills a different niche, >> at least in CE. There's a few like duplicate niche filling weapons like the carbine and the battle rifle for example. But uh in Hal >> most enjoyable things about it was going in and having all my expectations of what weapons would be good and not were basically shattered from the beginning. As I like first thing I did on the first time I played original Halo was just discard the pistol. So that's about the worst move you can possibly make. Um but the thing is the game using experience it. >> Yeah. Yeah. That was one of the more enjoyable because I it meant that I I wasn't immediately thinking right this is basically a generic form of another generic shooter game that I've already played. This is going to be more memorable for the fact that it made me like pistols and shotguns. >> But uh no, wouldn't it have been better if the game put some yellow paint on the pistol that said this is the best weapon in the game. Use this. Use me please. which um unless there was more that anybody wanted to say on that, I figure now might be uh now might be the time to talk about uh yeah, I guess what can only be described as yellow paint. >> Can I as a tiny uh in between yellow paint and and this cuz uh Platoon shared his his version and he he had an iconic uh checkpoint death. I don't know if you want to talk quickly just about how checkpoints work, but >> um what's funny is I was going to put your clip up because it's really good. >> However, I've outclassed you, buddy. >> Oh. >> Oh my goodness. Get [ __ ] >> I've got the best word ever. I think >> privilege. >> This is >> I think we need a revolt on this show. >> This We got >> I just think we let him fight. >> We got an iconic example of just how amazing the checkpoint system is. If I can just pull Here we go. >> You're in the You're in the the host class rags. So, really, it's us against you. >> Bom bom bom. See, look, I died. Oh, what a shame. I'm dead. So, anyway, let's get going again on a new life. >> All right. Yeah, let's uh let's try it again. You know, >> part of the part of the gameplay loop. >> Oh, that's weird. That's not Anyway, let's get let's get respawned again. >> Uhoh. >> Oh, that's >> Yeah. So, >> this is um this is something that can happen, but the original Bungie games were a lot smarter about detecting the threats around the players to prevent soft locking uh checkpoints. And so, this game is not very smart about detecting threats because if you've ever play if you've played it on co-op, you will see that it has no clue when your allies are safe to respawn you. So, you will get respawned in the middle of combat. Yeah. Okay. So, finally roll insanely in co-op it's it's bizarrely generous with how how close you can get respond to your allies. Now, by the way, another another problem with these sort of checkpoint deaths and really all deaths in in general is that um the fade in uh from black um when you you the player cannot see what's happening, but enemies are very much active. >> Yes. So, [ __ ] around you. I was like, thanks. Do you want to try mine up anyway? Cuz mine's got quite a good little demonstration of that. That's what's happening. There's a couple of like overlapping things I think that are happening in mind. >> Oh, you mean like you'd have a chance to survive if not for the fact that you can't even [ __ ] see, so you're dead. >> Well, that's one aspect of it, but it's also another change that I think they've made to a vehicle in particular. And so all of these things kind of combine uh to create my particular checkpoint problem because um as far as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, in original Halo, the wraith, the mortar thing doesn't do a huge amount of splash damage when it lands. >> Um it does it's a bit suck at aiming at you. >> Does the splash damage like reliably one hit kill you? >> Yes. >> Um yes. >> Oh, it does. Let's say if you're within a meter of where it directly lands, the splash damage will kill you. >> See, I assumed what had happened was that they had changed the way it works and they'd increased the radius of splash damage and the amount of splash damage. So, for my checkpoint death, because it was a wraith that was getting me and because I couldn't see what was happening, it was shooting on my black screen and as soon as I spawned back in, I died and then it just kept doing that. But I don't think it was landing that close to me. It was landing [ __ ] miles away, but I was still dying. It's a It's a camera thing. When it switches to third person, it looks like it's farther away, but I think it's like a forced perspective. >> See, this one, >> it's still It's still silly because I I've noticed this about Unreal Engine games, the way that their lighting works, they want to have this like fade in. It drove me insane with Reblivion. Uh just the amount of time it would take for it to fade in because that's a game where you're going through loading screens and you're reloading your saves and what have you. So, you experience it even quite a bit more than this game. But yes, it does [ __ ] you over here. >> Um, what I was going to say about this is just that it's amusing in the sense that it's like, so how could this have happened? It's like, well, the the sort of categorical threats are far enough away that the game thinks you can have a checkpoint, doesn't realize a wraith has already fired a shot at you, which basically makes you dead every time. >> But, you know, that's bad enough. I just find it so funny that with mine, I was basically spawning as a corpse. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> like it's just >> I know is a little tighter with like how close to death he is in his checkpoints, but they're both in a situation where you're just like >> functionally soft locked and have to wait for the checkpoint reversion because this was a thing in the original Halo games. You could get stuck with like checkpoints that get you caught in a death loop and the game would eventually send you back to the checkpoint before the one that you're currently on so that you can escape it. >> That was almost a defense that I heard. I think there were a few people in the response to because I put that on Twitter. There's a few people in the response and some call to saying, "Yeah, but that was the problem with Bungie Halo games 2. So, what's the problem?" So, well, the problem is you've had 20 years to fix it. >> You've had to Yeah. No, the the threat detection's just broken. There's the game cannot tell when the player is in danger when it comes to checkpointing and respawning. >> I will say that is a tiresome thing that I keep seeing people say. A lot of there are there are plenty of individual problems in this game that can be pointed. There are examples that can be pointed to in the Bungie games, but never all of them all at once and never as reliably egregious. >> That could happen in the Bungee Halo games. It has been a long, long time since I've experienced a Death Loop checkpoint. >> Yeah. And Halo games beyond death loop checkpoint. One of the things that struck me about watching all of these like everyone playing this game, all these different players, all these different skill levels, all these different difficulties. One of the things we complimented about original Halo is just how much almost like infinite dynamism there is. You can play that game so differently every time. But having watched all of these every single person in I'm watching and thinking, "Yeah, I did that. Yeah, I did that too. I also did that and that too." Same corridor, same strategy. The game forces you because it is so broken to play the exact same way. So there's no pointing it cuz you're not going to do anything differently. >> Well, yeah. Everyone picked up the needle rifle. I assume >> there is gaslighting going on where they're trying to make the No, it was just you. you're the one who got stuck in that sequence being unable to progress and then like you see across all of these different streams that everybody comes up with the same dominant strategies to solve the same fundamental problems. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> That point reminds me of First Light where it's like um oh you've encountered that the AI is broken in every single scenario ever and then it's like well don't you know other good games have broken AI sometimes? You're like >> yeah Luke Skywalker sucks so you got to give Ray a pass. Yeah, extremely [ __ ] annoying. >> Theoretically possible that the classic Halos are broken, but I haven't really encountered it. >> What I don't get is like they claim to be Halo fans and then they spend half of their time like [ __ ] on the old Halo games to defend the new ones. And it's like, so are you really a Halo fan? Because you seem to have memorized everything that you don't like about the old games. >> We we shall carve out some time at the end of this to talk a little bit about the meta of this game. Don't you worry. I have a lot of opinions on the current the what what whatever whatever the Halo fan base is now, whatever it looks like uh at this point. Before we move on, regarding the checkpoint system, I remember it being quite [ __ ] like from the beginning cuz I think there's a number of factors that go into it, whether it's like >> like killing a certain amount of enemies or sometimes it's timer based or like walking into a certain trigger volume that triggers the checkpoint and like uh I remember it being inconsistent in the earlier games and now I don't know if it's this like the same amount of being problematic and inconsistent or it's like slight completely worse. I feel like it might actually be slightly worse this time around cuz it's like I remember there was an an instance in the MA where like I there during a a a stretch of gameplay blowing up the cores >> like I never got any checkpoints and then I died and then I had to replace replay replay the sequence and then I got two checkpoints >> when I didn't get any before. >> So it's like not only did you give me one, you gave me two now. So, it's like did a system fail when when it should have been engaged like um yeah that I'm I'm not I'm I'm not quite sure whether they worsened it or it's about as [ __ ] up as it already was. But in either case, this is an opportunity Halo Studios could have taken to fix the problems that were there and and make the checkpoint system at least more consistent, but they didn't bother. They were just like whatever. I posted an example of a fan who uh relies on like pointing out bugs in the old games to say that it's forgivable in the new games. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, that's a fun one. Oh, are you saying that there were no bugs ever in the Bungie games? It's like that would be a weird thing for anybody to say, but okay. >> I mean, the the original game was not perfect, but like I mean there are so many things you could have fixed and they just didn't. like they they just they kept all the flaws and just added more flaws. >> Added many of their own. >> One of the one of the key issues with this that I find so offensive. >> Um so, uh I figure that probably the best way to pick off the yellow paint conversation is just with >> the ultimate payoff, >> the certifiable classic, the uh the just the the perfect encapsulation. >> Before we show it, there are people who defend this. I want that known like they're they exist out there. >> They should be killed. >> Oh my god. >> In in Minecraft rags, but >> you >> you control the button hand the buttons to access the menu and turn off the markers. Some some [ __ ] like that. >> I play the game as it was intended for me to play it >> with at maximal mark. I'm marker maxing. >> 25. Gotcha. >> Well, I like that. >> I'll be curious. I hope I hope in the um in in the like if there's a super cut or something of all I'd be curious how all of us yeah react to this particular thing because uh >> we all probably had our own reactions to having this happen because it's so consistent and by design it's supposed to happen that way. So >> oh okay so here we here we are I suppose >> any examples? >> Yeah >> you foolishly >> are we are we talking about the prequel missions right here or we talking about This is keys is rescuing keys. >> Okay. Okay. >> Surely surely that >> what can be >> what could be said like you're going through the level you get to the room that Keys and the other guys are in. And as soon as you even enter the room, Keys is like, "Hey, Chief, watch out for those cloak deletes." So, right out of the gate, we're already off to a horrible start. But then because in this game when you are basically at the end of an encounter by default the game will tag the last three enemies that are still alive um it'll tag them and and show you where they are every time every single encounter where they need you to kill all of the enemies. They'll tell you where the last three of them are. >> And in this case >> I think some sorry man some some like sometimes it's a flat number. Sometimes I think it's a percentage of the total and amount of enemies in an encounter that would explain the sheer amount of way points like in the at the end of Guilty Spark for existence >> for for for example I I mean >> um where there's so many of them >> but uh like the problem is like there's no overriding function for in situations where there are cloaked elites. So drawing way points over them completely makes their cloaking redundant. And it's just like why the [ __ ] did you why did you allow that to happen during this situation? >> It seems it it seems like the reason why they decided to do it is because the levels that they had designed from the ground up. So the prequel levels are much larger. So if you're left with like a couple of guys left, it pings them so that that way you don't spend ages looking for them. >> But then when they when they which I disagree with it, but I I still understand like why they might have decided to do it. But then they they do it with the That implies it's like systems driven where it's like there's a there's a system where it would happen on every level if that's the case. >> Yeah, >> sure. I think because it happens with the invisible guys here and then it also happened with me on I think it was in the library where I was just being bumrushed by a bunch of a bunch of the little flood boys >> and they were all right in front of me >> running towards me. Why would I ever need a marker for that? >> Well, while you describe that, can I fetch an actual visual that'll just be amusing for it? like uh I think I was playing it on my own >> in a call with and then suddenly >> uh >> there is an instance in Halo C where you're given markers to kill a couple grunts on Pillar of Autumn and I think that like >> there they came up with that functionality and it was just like oh yeah brilliant >> this is extremely funny to me by the way >> this is the polar yeah this is >> this is a horror monster >> this is um this is like >> a horror monster that's just real life quest markers is 3.3's does dying decisions. That's the on the invisible elite. On the one hand, there they are. Go and get them. And then on the other hand, here's the little flood infection forbs. They're stuck cuz they they do a direct path to you. They go directly to you regardless of what object is in the way. >> Did we mention >> forms here? They're not supposed to be smart. >> They're very smart. Did we mention that with the stealth camo thing, there's the quest markers, there's the Cortana message, and then Keys also has a message. >> Yeah. >> That's what I find hilarious about it cuz when I'm playing it, I'm in the middle of complaining that Keys told me, "Hey, watch out for Invisible Elites." Only for the game to then say, "Here they are." >> Well, it's it's the amount of times, too. It's It's not even a one-off thing. As bad as it is when you get to, you know, rescuing keys and the markers appear, by then you will have had at least one or two instances of this happening, I think I on the stream I I on my stream I had counted, but in the they they kept it from the original game where before you get, you know, up in the TNR and you're kind of going around the cliff edge, Cortana gives you that one reminder, you know, hold on, chief. you know, there's your your motion tracker is picking up movement and that's your one reminder that that's like a a gameplay mechanic and she never mentions it again. It's that's there for you to use if you haven't been using it so far. That's your one reminder. But in this, it really is like every encounter with invisible elites. Watch out for the shimmer. Watch your motion tracker. There's distortions in the air, you know, give them a sniff and you could catch them that way. So, when you finally get an encounter, it's weird. Eventually, they'll get to a point where there are invisible elites they don't give you warnings about, and it feels like weird, like, wait, aren't you supposed to be telling me that I, you know, how to beat these enemies I've encountered before? So, it almost feels weird when they don't have it at that point. >> It just, it gives the impression that the game is designed for people who are so terrified of failure that they don't want to ever die and then repeat anything because normally the way you would deal with this is you run in, oh [ __ ] I didn't see that guy. That means there's an invisible guy in that room. And then you know when you try again >> I was think like one day just have a low opinion where it's like I think that the player will be tired after playing this long level. Let's make sure that they know what's going on. >> They were well predicted that >> it is it is an issue of we are we have added in this enemy and then we have added in something to nullify the point the point of that enemy existing. They we've added these invisible enemies but we don't want you to have trouble with the invisible enemies. We'll do something to make them visible. Well, I don't know. I I think with the the checkpoint markers over them, I think is supposed to solve a different problem. I think they looked at original Halo, for example, I had a bit where just before you enter the library, I think there was one guy left somewhere on the map, hadn't killed him, so the cut scene wouldn't start. >> And I think what they've thought is, well, that's a big problem with the game. So, what we need to do is when there is a conditional thing about to follow, we need to make sure the players know where the last enemies they need to kill are because we don't want them running around for half an hour trying to find the one enemy they missed. Um, I prefer running around trying to find the one enemy I missed to being told where invisible people are. I just don't think that they accounted for the fact that invisibility is a large part of one of their enemy types. >> If we're talking like there's a single infection form running around somewhere that you need to track down, it makes sense as a convenience feature. But again, we're talking about a stealth unit. >> Yep. >> Well, I think uh like enemies being invisible is one thing, but then sometimes I think enemies can be just stuck behind geometry. And I think they were worried about that >> where it's like let's put the way points in just in case they can't find somebody who's stuck behind a cliff or like a rock wall or something. But like I think like a way to address that to a degree is to add a timer like like after which the way points then then get drawn in like give the player a few minutes to like find enemies and if they can't then it's just like here's the way points and then but that but that would point out the flaws with the game right where it's just like oh thanks you pointed out where this enemy is where they got stuck behind a [ __ ] mountain or whatever and it's like you can't get >> there's a few um there's a few times that Cortana If you don't do an objective, Cortana will eventually speak up and be like, "Hey, Chief, we need to go do this thing." Like, that is a thing and it's in the original CE. Um, it's just the egregiousness of it. >> Yeah, it's more frequent in this and it it combines and scales with everything else they've done. It would be charming if it started with they just marked the visible enemies and they had a couple invisible enemies that that weren't marked just to like add to the surprise because you're looking for the marked enemies and then like you get jumped. >> But unfortunately there's a little bit of like a gameplay surprise and this it exists in the other versions as well which I'm glad they kept here which is that the needler will not home in on invisible enemies and you will not sword lunge on invisible enemies as well at a distance like when the reticle turns red. So, I'm glad they kept that at least. Um, there is one other um thing that sort of came to mind, too. Um, regarding the extremely liberal use of way points to the point of it was regularly taking me out of the experience. >> Um, when you first encounter the first light bridge in uh in Halo and there was just like just a bridge and you can't you can't go left or right because it's it's a bottomless pit and you can't go you don't want to go back because you you realize you came from there. the only way to go is forward. There is still a waypoint on the other side of the bridge to let you know that that is the way you're supposed to go. Um >> well, >> I thought it would I thought I thought it would have been really neat if in uh 343 Guilty Spark when the flood had been, you know, released and you're running to get out of the facility. Um and you try to go up and the the the elevator comes crashing down and it's broken and it's on fire. And that was the first time in the game that they did not have a waypoint marker for you to use. uh to sort of add to the fact that things are going horribly wrong. This wasn't expected and the waypoint marker just isn't there. It says you have find alternative uh find an alternate route. You're so used to being handheld by these damn wayoint markers everywhere you go. >> Don't you just walk out of that room and it gives it back? >> Yeah, I was saying it would be really neat if they >> for the rest of like that level or section they didn't have one because >> would it be [ __ ] insane to have no way point marker and 343 guilty spark? What a crazy idea. or the the game because the game is designed in such a way because remember there's even that one specific point where you know you have the triangles that are lit on the floor to let you know like the direction that you're supposed to go it's built into the level and Cortana specifically has a line that says hey follow the lit triangles on the ground look at those strange triangles on the must be there to point you in the right direction >> there's a few sections in Halo C where there are actually way points it's on the mod during the Warthog run, it's on two betrayals when you need to fly a Banshee up to the upper parts of the level. >> Um, but there's a few other instances, but like they were very sparing with how they used markers in the original Halo C because the level design speaks for itself. >> Yeah, you look for the green doors, not the red doors. You, you know, there's little indicators on the ground, the triangles that give you a pathway, and when you're retracing your steps, then you go the opposite way of the triangle. >> Obligatory basic stuff. There were there was a couple of times in Combat Evolved that I got a bit lost. And if a developer said, "We can solve that." I'd be like, "Get the [ __ ] away from me. Get the [ __ ] away from me right now." >> It's okay to be a little lost sometimes. >> It's almost like it's a giant alien mega structure that you're exploring. >> Mhm. >> I have no sense of direction and I put a significant part of the blame for that on video games because they always tell me exactly where to go. So, I never figure it out. >> They don't do that in real life. the opposite. I play old games where there aren't very sparing use of markers. So, >> but I have played old games. I used to play old games all the time. I think it's just been so long that I've forgotten how they worked. >> And of course, you know, it's worth noting you can turn these off. But number one, I shouldn't have to do that. I shouldn't need to go diving into menus to turn it off. Number two, this is what video game developers whose job is designing video games think that I should be doing. So >> yeah, I mean they trusting their judgment, right? >> The the the the haunting part. This is how the majority of people who play this game will play it. >> Mhm. >> This is the intended default experience. >> This is how PlayStation players are going to experience and and they're going to question like this is what you've been gassing up for 25 years. Uh, >> I sure will be wondering that. But, um, yeah. No, it's uh, yeah, pretty dire, huh? You know, it's just, um, incredibly condescending and lame. >> I meant to mention it earlier, but I didn't uh, I didn't slip it in in time, but I do want to present um, it was part of this little set of clips cuz it's just so important. Is is Johnson as an AI, and it's indicative of the uh, the broader problem with all friendly AI as well as enemy AI. The [ __ ] is it? Was it too early? Hang on, hang on, hang on. It's uh basically I was going through I think it's level three of the bonus missions and um the Yeah, you know, one of the f first things I'd highlight I don't have a clip for necessarily, but I can pause here. Johnson doesn't respect stealth. So if you're walking around and you've encountered a room that has sleeping enemies that you can knock out one by one, he will just go enemies and then you start attacking them and stuff and you're like bro, >> you really >> That is an important behavior at the start of truth and reconciliation where the marines will not fire until you actually get shot at. >> Yeah. >> Even have a line one of the lines from the original version of that where they the Cortana even says don't fire until enemies return fire to give you time. Whereas this Yeah. So many occasions Johnson just goes in. I was about to sneak in there for [ __ ] sake. >> Look what Look what Johnson does against this sleeping grunt. >> You can get him. >> He's in the fight of his life, guys. >> Oh no. You can't even hit a sleeping grunt. >> It might be the most worthless. It's like less offensive than like a little polip infection form. It's like you >> Well, see those can hurt you. Yeah, sleeping grunt doesn't do anything. >> The thing here is the inconsistency because here he's losing a fight against a sleeping grunt. In my playthrough, I'm pretty sure he killed two hunters for me while I was looking the other way. Yes, >> because someone else someone was saying that Johnson was useful and they were using him to complete the levels and I I can't imagine unless you gave me like 4 hours to complete a single level because I almost said something but >> really good meme for me was that he was basically useless throughout 90% of my playthrough and then I had fought for ages in a particular level and it ended with like a hunter or two. I think it was one hunter left and he was about to land a melee attack on me and I was like, "Shit, I'm about to get reset." And Johnson hit him in the back and killed him. And I was like, "Oh, Johnson, you saved me. You've redeemed yourself, buddy." >> It's like a character arc where you have like a shitty, useless, annoying gag character who like saves a main character in the end. >> Yeah. >> In the final episode. >> Well, game. him using his rail gun sniper weapon is like whatever it is is one thing, but like like this particular situation where like he's not close enough for his melee attack to do any damage. >> So like why wouldn't you program it so he is close enough like he's screwing it up every time? >> The reason why this is so funny is that he's in an infinite loop. >> This is the kind of thing you would test and and find this and fix it like and sorry go ahead. He's in an infinite loop. >> Fix the guns floating off the floor. They're not going to fix this. >> He's got extremely overpowered. He's against an enemy that can't move and can't hurt him in a stealth section where if he even successfully landed this, it wouldn't cost us anything. But he's just stuck here forever. >> I was I was concerned initially when Sergeant Johnson uh was a side character for Halo and Truth and Reconciliation that they were going to make him like a permanent AI companion for the player and then he just disappears. He just disappears until like the ending on Legendary when he sequel bait, >> right? >> Which um well, >> I suppose >> uh it might >> certain things, but that might be a good segue to start talking about um I don't know. I guess the umbrella being art and story, unless there was any sort of >> needler ammo counter. >> Oh, aesthetics. Well, that Hey, look, that's, you know, that's that's art and design. I guess I meant like it was there anything that anybody uh >> wanted to touch on it. So, >> add on um on like gameplay stuff. >> There's one more that I would mention very quickly uh on on the topic of handholding, which is um I believe it's during the keys chapter. So, we're seven odd hours into the game, which is I think it's chapter nine of 10. And we get Cortana being like, "Hey, Chief, the Covenant and the Flood are fighting each other. Maybe you should wait and let them fight each other." Like, I've been doing that for the last 4 hours. >> Yeah. >> Like, why are you telling me this now? >> Yeah, Cortana chirps up a little bit too often to tell you very basic information. There was a point where I turned the dialogue off because I was tired of Cortana interjecting. Unfortunately, that also turns off the other AI's ability, which you would think, well, isn't that what a dialogue setting does? But there is a chatter slider in the game that is supposed to control like the marine dialogue and like when the the grunts are saying their little lines and the elites are talking. But that chatter slider doesn't do anything. All of the voice work is tied to the dialogue slider. So there's just an audio slider that does nothing. >> Um >> uh one one gameplay thing that I Oh [ __ ] did I forget? >> Look at that frame rate. By the way, I was just about to say >> Oh jeez. That's >> and that's on the console version. That's game uh fringy gameplay. >> Yes, this is um >> I said it was stop motion. This is stop motion transport. >> Oh no. >> And bear in mind this is not as bad as it got. When I was playing uh on legendary on the Moore um for the Warthog run, it was diabolical um how badly it was running. Were >> you saying maybe? I haven't seen that. Uh this is well it's uh the thing is is I was streaming at 30 frames per second but I was playing at 60. I was on performance mode what it was on performance mode turns into stop. What I noticed is this is why I prompted cuz this moves into the sort of general art graphics sort of conversation, but um I don't know what the problem is, but if there's too many enemies or too many vehicles on screen or even projectiles, the frame rate attached to those objects or characters drops. Not like the frame rate that the whole game is at. The game is still at 60 frames per second, but the enemies will animate at like 10 frames per second. the ghost. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing some games do to save. >> It's like you need to go faster so you're like jump dropping stuff out of your ship. Like it's just sacrificing the frame rate of that stuff at that point just to keep the basic frame rate of the entire game going. >> Yeah. I don't know. >> There's some other games like there's there's an example this uh this happens in Deadlock uh which is a closed beta game. It's not finished, but if you hit like the little minions with a little tether that keeps them in place, then they will be in slow frame rate. But they're the only things that slows down. It's just like it's just a yeah to save the performance for everything else. The fact it's happening in Halo on performance mode on a modern console is a console. Embarrassing. >> It's not the PlayStation 5 Pro, but who [ __ ] cares? I don't need to be upgrading a [ __ ] console mid generation to play a game that ran perfectly fine on the original Xbox. It's every object. It is every single enemy object in an environment like this. I don't know what and and of course the best part was the on the more for the Warthog run it did the weird Unreal Engine fluke where it looks like sandpaper's been rubbed all over the screen. Um I don't know what the hell that is. Like I don't know why it does that but I noticed that particularly on metalunner >> you're watching a video that's like overly compressed. >> Yeah. got a residue. I think it's the stealing with the lumen. >> Yeah. I don't know what I mean. It's like, by the way, this was my turning point. This right here, this was my turning point against the game. Um, I think I was blown away by the fact that a remake actually runs this badly. Like, to me, it's almost disqualifying putting to one side everything else that could be said about the game. No excuses. Can't say, "Oh, well, your PC is not good enough." Cuz this is PlayStation 5. This is a platform that it was built for. >> Yeah, like I said, it was not running well at all for me. I got a 4090. I think I think when I was on Remix Legendary, um I had everything turned to medium. Um and I was still getting like 70 74 was probably a the average, which is just like guy, what are we doing on medium? >> Like what's going on here? Well, I think part of the problem is the way Unreal Engine 5 works and like these aren't settings you can change in the in-game options, by the way, which is the problem is that it Yeah, it bakes in ray tracing, which is not just reflections. It's also it like determines the behavior of how like light bounces off of surfaces onto adjacent surfaces like uh carrying color values from one surface to another based on bounces of of how uh light is bouncing off one surface to another. Um, like you can't you can't turn that off in the in the in-game settings individually unless you you write a custom text file and save it as an INI and then the the engine will read that and force it in. Yeah. But then it ends up Well, not in not in all cases cuz sometimes you can do that with uh at the very least chromatic aberration and film grain. you could turn those off through through the INI method and uh it you'll you'll get like better performance and a better looking picture, but I think there's there's some other things where if you try to turn them off like it'll deteriorate the fidelity of the the image so much because like it relies on like baked in >> like you know >> high fidelity features still being shoved into games. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it should just be optional. And I've seen already many people and this will be this game will be used going forward. Its legacy if anything its legacy will be yet another example of we don't like a lot of Unreal Engine stuff. A lot of people are like, "Oh, great. Another Unreal Engine game that has like the the same it look the exact same looking lighting. It looks like all the other Unreal Engine games do or like so many of them do. It runs really poorly. It just it doesn't look nearly as good to justify it." But have you considered the sand physics? >> Wow, >> dude. Have you seen all >> considered that the that the elite testicles shrink when they walk into a >> Right. Yeah, I know. Yeah. On assault on the control room. I was noticing they were getting a bit, you know, >> two times I saw this. One time was like it was the water physics are absolutely incredible on silent cgrapher and there's another one that said like the sand physics are incredible underneath Chief's feet. Both of them got quote tweeted with like, "So, the physics aren't actually behaving appropriately here at all." And then on the side, we're just like, "So, how come he drags his feet constantly instead of underneath only the footsteps?" And it's just like what I'm getting at is, oh, we celebrate the [ __ ] out of these like aspects and just like they're not even doing them right. Like, it's, you know, it's kind of annoying. >> The water crap under the water at any point. >> Well, no. The the water I can't I don't I don't know where the exact time stamp is. The water is a layer of water texture and if you crouch underneath it, it disappears. So, you just go under like a mixtape because >> we couldn't find we couldn't get past the invisible wall to go deep enough to even test that. >> Oh, there there's one specific part where you can. It's uh it's near here. Yeah. Right. Look at the water. There is a specific bit on top of the water. It looks like well, not great. But if you go into it, there is a bit where it's deep enough. You just go underneath and that is just a micro thin layer of of texture underneath. There's just nothing. It's just the world again. But and you can see the inverse of the water texture. It looks like [ __ ] >> Can you see the tide though? Like the way it's clipping forward. >> It's like no the No, we sacrifice mechanics and [ __ ] visuals and frame rate and functionality and it's like and we get this in exchange. Like oh thank you so very much. >> Where's the photo mode? If if we're gonna do all this, why not include a photo mode for the single player? >> If if it's supposed to be I'm picking [ __ ] screenshots of of this beautiful game so I can show off to other Halo fans that I wasted my money on this. Why the [ __ ] isn't there a built-in photo mode? >> I want to ask you guys cuz I have no idea. What are those things in the sky? >> I don't know. >> They have added random [ __ ] >> into the distance. This is >> Those are supposed to be the weather monitor systems. started with the Reach DLC. It's all over Halo 4. It's all over Halo 5. It's just like random [ __ ] that they shove into the background that looks like an Alienware PC that >> it's just part of how they design 4Runner structures. It's dog [ __ ] >> right? >> But is it meant to be floating or is that a visual bug? >> Yes, that is that is how they design it. >> Is that a visual bug? You have to ask that a lot in this game. >> I I do with this game. Yeah. >> Yeah. There's no guarantee. You don't know. Maybe they forgot to load the mountain it's supposed to be on top of. You don't know. And I don't blame you, >> you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I know this conversation >> is driving us in all kinds of different directions, but we're broadly on like functionality to a certain extent with uh the art and the processing and stuff, but I just want to I got I got to make sure everyone sees it cuz it's just so wonderful. But did you guys know you can push keys around the whole ship at the beginning? >> I've I've heard I've heard that you can. I didn't have the patience to actually go and do it though. here. >> I pushed him into the corridor and got him killed by grunts. >> Yeah. Then they're like, "How could you do that to Keys?" You're like, "I didn't do nothing to Keys." >> Yeah. And then And then the Marines Marine showed up to kill me, but they were incapable of walking around a corner. So I was just like, "I'm right here. Come get me." And they were like, "Where? It must have been the wind." You know, they can't do anything. >> When I figured out I could push >> mention the the background NPCs where the men die in one shot and the >> We could do that next if you want because I got a clip for that as well. But so when I figured out I could push keys and it would take ages, I kind of had a moment with my chat where I was like, "Sorry, guys. I want to push him as far as he'll go." >> I intended I intended to take keys all the way to the end of uh Pillar of Autumn, but it wouldn't let me. It got to a certain point where he just cuts off and he'll spawn back to uh but you can go pretty [ __ ] far to be fair. But I thought, of course, thought to myself, you kill him and it activates the lock down where everyone tries to get you. if you let the the Covenant kill him, it'll do the same thing as long as you're still in the the area. It's like, but what if you're outside the area? What will it do then? And of course, um I decided I wanted to test it because you drag him this far out, which like I said, it's like a third of the way through the ship. What could it possibly do? Kill him. Boom. >> Oh. Oh my god. It teleports you back here. >> Yeah, cuz that's the only way it can function. It's like they can't lock you in this room if you're not in it. So, >> or and it and it doesn't even just turn on the uh all the marines in the rest of the level. >> That means they had to find out this was a thing that they have to program in a teleport function. >> And like >> there's a really um there's a really weird one where if you push him far enough cuz I got him I was going to take him all the way. Um but there's one it's a really really long way and you're almost at like the escape area. If you push him beyond one specific door, he just blips out of existence. So again, they had to have found that people were doing that and then they had to program in something to account for it. But then why not just lock him in place at the beginning? Why allow me to push him so far and need to decide very late on now you can't? >> Pretty stupid. >> It seems like such an odd condition to throw in. Like they had to go out of their way >> to to put it in. So it's like if you kill keys outside of the boundaries, it resets you within the boundaries. [ __ ] Instead of just saying he can't be pushed, they said, "Well, if you push him, >> instead of saying he can't be pushed, what a revolutionary idea, Rags." Like, I guess they couldn't solve that problem, you know? >> Like, I can't just detect you're outside the bounds and then just be like, "Oh, well, >> I guess we won't do it then." But then it's it like mandatorily pulls you back in just to get killed by a bunch of NPCs. You would think it would be better for them to make the screen go black and say you killed the captain or something instead of this like what the >> turns blurry and you get yeah quote yeah this is >> it's like like their ability to problem solve it really is kind of embarrassing here that this is their solution to the problem instead of just saying >> hey fellas how we doing with that fidelity comparison now >> listen you blocky art style this is >> finally liable spaces have returned to Halo, >> but you know >> what was being discussed there. So, we could go over it cuz I actually played it live on Real BBC to show the guys this, but uh this footage will sort of give a a better [ __ ] I forget how long this lasts. There we go. the um for those who don't know you can start up kill people on the the command center the bridge >> and um like the the what was spreading was that you can only kill the men that is almost true like >> you because I'll show it in this clip but see like the same approach seems to be that all the women are immune which is insane as a coincidence if uh whatever the [ __ ] programming they made to make this Coincidence. Yeah. >> Well, that's the thing, right? It's just like, what in the world made this happen? But as you can see here, that's a lady and well, and boom. So, apparently it's >> Asian women are not protected is what they're saying. >> But, um, yeah, this went viral for obvious reasons. >> I had a lot of success shooting them in the ass. like that seemed to reliably kill them, which it possibly makes this even worse. >> Does it mean like I was thinking maybe the reason why that happened is because they replaced all the men in the original game with women, which means that they're adding something to the game. So, did they just not add the bit that makes them able to take damage? Well, it turns out no, because they will take damage if you shoot them in the ass. So, >> I mean, obviously this piss off someone found out it's messed up hitboxes on women. Is it messed up? Because this could just be the way that you intentionally like >> well it got me think differentiation between the hit boxes on male and female character models and yeah >> it's an odd coincidence. >> It is odd but I mean I I wanted to do some science on the back as I also experimented with this. So I did experiment on women throughout the game um to see you know do women take damage from gravity? >> Do women take damage from grenades and all the rest of that. >> That's what saging breasts are. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it is it's a traumatic thing that they have to go through, but it turns out you can push them off high places and they'll survive. So, you know, there is that. >> Uh, do you want me to pull that one up now, Rags? >> Yeah, it kind of fits within the It fits in the similar vein here. Um, as he's pulling it up, I'll I'll explain what happened. Uh, on my legendary playth through uh there there we could do an entire section about how they borked the panicked marine uh and why. Yes, we can. Doesn't work. I mean, we might as well just do it now while you're pulling that up. So, in the original game, uh, what they have is when you're it's it's the spooky section. This is 343 guilty spark. You haven't encountered the flood yet. You know, something's not quite right. Keys is missing. The Covenant are running from something. There's mysterious gunfire, but coming from nowhere. Obviously, the tone is shifted. They're prepping you for the, you know, for the really awesome reveal. And in the original, the moment you open a door in the facility, a marine shoots you and takes off some of your shields. And obviously, this is to potentially prompt you to immediately return fire on this marine who's like panicked. He has PTSD. He's he's he's out of his mind and he's shooting you and he's saying like, "Oh, I won't let him get me. I don't want to be one of them. Go away." Blah blah blah. And it's he's panicking. And you can choose to either like kill him or you can walk away and and leave him there. Um the the whole point is that they want you to almost like instinctively shoot him back. In this version though, not only are the animations marketkedly much much worse, uh and and the voice acting isn't quite as good, but in this one, he he he doesn't track you like he does in the original when he uh you can open the door and see him, but he doesn't instinctively shoot you. He only gets into his defensive posture when you get close. you have to stand in just the right spot, just just fill just the right pixels to where he can actually damage you, but he doesn't look at you and track you with the pistol like he does in the original. Um, and I was uh I was like I was trying to see if I can I I can hit him. And then there was a point here where I decide, you know what? I'm just going to I'm just going to play around with him. I'm going to shoot this uh shoot this guy a bit. And I was a little bit surprised at uh what his uh reaction would be. So, >> any second now, it's gonna happen. >> Yes, it's when I pull out the pistol here. Yeah, there it is. >> There you go. >> Well, another Oh, no. Oh, he's he's a real warrior. Look at him go. He's then he finally dies. And then one thing I noticed too after the skull comes out of him which is really tasteless. Um it's it's his it's his body that the ragdolls and how it happens with the Master Chief too. When the ragdolls go down the knees will like bend forwards when they're not supposed to which is something I've never seen in any other game and like the the body clips into itself as well. >> So basically everything they could fail about this they failed. >> Yeah. And the the when the first guy at the very beginning of the game when the guy dies at the door explosion after letting you out of the cryopod and that's like a scripted death where he flies away from the exploding door. Every single time you see his body at the very beginning, he like he floops in a way that's weird and he clips into himself and like his his ankle his foot like bobs back and forth and swings cuz it's pivoting on the ankle joint. And it's like well this one's scripted. You could have just had it look really good because it's the same way every time. >> You've just reminded me. It's something that's probably worth showing. It's also on the Pillar of Autumn. Did you enjoy the one time when the game takes away control from you and letter boxes and elite in front of you and it never ever ever does that again. >> This part was [ __ ] baffling, dude. What the hell? I can't do anything. >> Right at the start of the game as well. >> Locks your controls. Look at his feet. This never >> I don't understand it. We're gonna stop you, letter box it, and have him go blah. And then they never ever ever do this again. Ever. >> And it's not it's not even like anything interesting happens. It's like they just it's a generic fighting animation. You would think it would be like pre-animated to look cool. >> Thank you, though, like stop you in your tracks to watch him just go raw and then never ever ever do it again in the game. >> Well, what's what's interesting too is in um this would be like an opportunity if you if you because it's a remake, right? If you wanted to show like this is the introduction of kind of elites up close, have it be I mean if they don't want you to have control, why isn't it a cut scene where you have the the elite like really kill these Marines to show that elites are serious business up close? If they get up close to you, they're just bigger. They're stronger. They will [ __ ] up Marines. Imagine what they'll, you know, kind of do to you. But they don't do that. They don't >> They don't. Yeah. And then it runs away. Look at his legs. He's like a crab. >> What are we doing? You didn't commit anything. you decided to do like this weird choice without like being like like creative or doing something intentional. And also in co-op you're not frozen. You could just walk next to them and like be in the same room as them as well. >> It feels like they're they're like throwing it in because it's something people say shouldn't be in these games and it's just like let's do it once and never again just to [ __ ] with you. >> Mhm. >> As like as a player as soon as you see the letter boxing it's like you know you're safe, >> right? So, like in the original, they didn't have the letter boxing at all. I can't remember exactly what they did with in the original. Maybe one of you guys can clarify, but I I think you still had control, but I think they probably just put an invisible wall in front of you. Like you could still like maybe walk backwards. So you'd had a degree of control, but like temporarily there'd be an invisible wall, I think, where it would the the enemy would just like roar at you and then >> like once the enemy was distracted after like three or four seconds, you would get control and then you could run past them. But it the way it was done originally, it's like it made you a little more fearful in that moment where it's just like, oh, I have no weapon and there's this enemy right in front of me. Oh [ __ ] Like when you introduce a letter box, it just reduces that fear immediately. [ __ ] hate this cut scene, too. By the way, >> if you're in co-op, you could just all three of us just walked in there while they were doing their little scripted fight and we were just standing around and you weren't able to like do anything, which is like, oh, like we're we we're starting to get into the the to the weird area that didn't exist in the original of like, well, the Master Chief would be doing something here. You're [ __ ] with his character by allowing us to do this and by not letting us have control. Um the uh are we sort of because I was about to actually just start ranting about this cut scene that happens and I was like wait that's more story >> where we're at. >> It's the it's the Marvel cut scene with Chief and Keys at the end of Truth and Reconciliation. >> There's much to be said for the scenes and how they >> Well, I have a compilation that goes line by line comparing voice direction. So if you want to start with voice direction, I feel like that's and then we can make fun of the cringe or you can do it in the other order. Just one small thing I wanted to start with that I think is hilarious. I only know about cuz [ __ ] Nick Dioro was watching it. So, what some of you may have heard of this. You have to turn volume on for this actually. >> There's a German trailer for this game. Uh >> I don't know if you you've heard of this, but >> you can get you can get an AI translation automatically to English in this trailer >> and then if you do it produces sounds that are are rather amusing. Oh, wait. Uh, have you all got your volume on for this? Just for this? >> I've just slid it on. Yeah. >> Okay, beautiful. Here we go. >> Do not fire my children. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's already funny. Wait. >> Are you not impressed by our work here? >> Are you impressed by our work here? >> Are you not impressed by our work here? Did you made him sound like a little science nerd? >> What the [ __ ] is this? It's so funny. >> Is it Does he say it like that in German? Like if if somebody speaks German and they listen to that, does he add on that little dweebish inflection at the end? >> I want to be specifically This is the YouTube video AI translation, right? It's not in the game whatsoever. >> All right. >> It's just really [ __ ] funny. >> Do not fire my children. Are you not impressed by our work here? Sure is. Are you not impressed by our work here? >> That that uh that cut scene though. Holy [ __ ] >> The elite flooping around doing a little bomb and weave while they're just standing out the >> cringe. It just It gave me Darth Maul vibes from Solo. >> We How are we doing this? What are we starting with that comparison or >> I guess we could do the general cringe and truth and reconciliation and then break down the like voice direction comparison. >> Yeah. because we need to get a taste of what the cut scenes are like. >> Well, I thought you were pulling up that I thought you wanted to take a look at that that cut scene there. The one where the the two hunters get smooshed. >> Oh, well, I'm uh I don't know if you want to what is there in truth and reconciliation >> beyond that. there's uh well >> keys. There's a few different there's a few different ways that you can sort of take the the the conversation about the new changes that come uh that they've made to the like story and the cinematics. Um and I suppose that it's probably worth doing it in certain blocks like talking about the changes to the dialogue or changes to the cinematography and then changes to the just the reading of the same lines. Um, I figure that uh that that maybe it No, it probably it probably would be worthwhile to So, you're saying that you've got a video that's what a compilation of just backtoback like the >> So, it is like line by line a comparison of how they said it in the remake and then how they said it in the original so that you can hear the difference in the voice direction. >> Yeah, I Yeah. No, there's a >> want to repost it. I will repost it because it's pretty far up at this point. >> Let me look here. Yeah, because uh the thing is is that a comparison can be uh cuz the problem is if you don't remember if you don't remember what the uh the the the original line delivery was, you might foolishly believe that they didn't [ __ ] it up. >> Yeseddeed. This is going to show you what the originals are like. >> Do we want to can I just ask quickly before we go? Do you guys have like a this is the worst cut scene in the game moment from from the main game, not not the prequel? >> Yeah, my vote would be the the intro to like like I don't even know what you call it with with a prophet the prophet cut scene would be my pick. >> I'm I'm excluding that. I'm just talking in the remake with the comparison. >> Yes. Yes, there there are a few. I shall I shall direct your attention. >> The end of the M where he kills the flood tank with the pistol. >> Oh, that's pretty bad. >> That's in the running. We can um we can we can run through those. Uh okay. Well, so first things would you should we just let this play? >> Yeah. Should we just watch this >> the the comparison? Sure. >> All righty. >> Is this on the EFAB stream or the watch together? >> Let's watch together. >> And I put a time code at the top to show the difference in how long this cut scene is because >> right >> uh there is a lot of extra time wasted. >> Everyone noticed that. It's very strange. So I I I actually have the number. There is seven minutes of extra cut scene of just like extra pauses and and shots of scenes and stuff. >> Mhm. >> Captain Keys. Captain Keys. >> Good to see you, Master Chief. Good to see you, Master Chief. >> Oh, by the way, not to not to do this, but I'm going to cuz I'm going to keep pausing for every single little change that pisses me off. >> This to me, like right out of the gate, um there's two changes that are made to the way that the introduction plays out that are so indicative of how little of a clue they have. um having the the reveal of like Master Chief in the Mark Five armor as like a reveal rather than just that's the armor that he's wearing. Um so like us back very it's it's very prequel energy. I'm not talking Star Wars prequel specifically, but like prequel energy of retroactively giving significance to something that was just treated as normal because they hid this. They hide the reveal of um the armor until this moment. But you see him in the armor in the original game when he just hops out of the the the cryopod. But instead, we need to have it be a big dramatic reveal. There he is standing in his armor is incredibly stupid. And they do the same thing with the reveal of Halo. In the f in the original game, Halo is the first thing that you see. You see it first thing. Whereas in this game, they hide it for a while because they want to do a dramatic slow kind of or inspiring reveal with the monks going oh like when pressed around the planet. Remember that while that's happening you were currently escaping the ship that is crashing on Halo. >> I want to comment too that the the first time you see Halo it does creepy music. It doesn't do the awe music when you first see Halo. It's creepy. >> Everything about the game. It's in the vocal inflections as well. Everything when the first time he says Master Chief in the in the remake versus the original, everything about what they do here is designed to say, "Hey, remember this? Isn't this awesome? The Halo Ring? Remember the Halo Ring? How incredible that is. It changes the entire tone. It becomes really one note. You're supposed to laugh and clap and applaud and cheer and and be amazed. >> I recognize you. >> Yeah. >> I remember. Yeah, >> I mean there's there's the aspect of Yeah. like like the opening shot in the original is, you know, Halo essentially. And in this one, it is treated like the grand reveal instead of just like, hey, remember there's like that weird thing out there, >> even though there's in the cut scene, they're like, we're going to land on that structure. And it's like, what structure? >> Oh, we we haven't seen one yet. Oh, the one on the monitor. That's a really like disappointing way to find out that Halo exists. It's like it's on a [ __ ] TV screen instead of you see it. Don't worry, I will drag us all through these some of these cut scenes after we after we look at this comparison here. >> Things aren't going well. Cortana did her best, but we never really had a chance. Things aren't going well. Cortana did her best, but we never really had a chance. >> A dozen Covenant superior battleships against a single Hion class cruiser. With those odds, I'm content with three. >> Make that four kills. I hate how it's the weird upward inflections that Cortana does where she sounds like the weapon from Halo Infinite, >> whereas like you'll see in the original, she she has a very flat presentation and it like kind of it just makes it her feel more human because it's like she's not she's not putting on vocal fry or whatever the [ __ ] that's >> she's not being flippant in the same way about the situation they're in, which is still dire. having her sort of dead panic and allow you to read her like her mood and her motive into everything, but this game is just like >> it's like she wants to be in Guardians of the Galaxy 3. >> Yeah, >> I don't like that. >> They've programmed her to be quirky and I don't understand why. >> I think it's a direction thing where they are directing her to overact these lines. Well, it does a bunch of mixed I've heard a bunch of mixed stuff on this whether like apparently they they did bring in the cast again 25 years later to re-record lines >> and I think in some cases they might have used the old lines and then in some cases I think they used takes that weren't used before that were on the cutting room floor which is just like >> well okay so >> why would you specifically sometimes [ __ ] gets deleted sorry sorry just one more point here that sometimes [ __ ] gets deleted for a reason. Restoring deleted content is not a virtue like inherently, right? Sometimes [ __ ] gets deleted for a reason. And I feel like they probably brought back deleted takes just because it was deleted. It's just like, oh, people haven't heard this before. >> Um, but I I feel like it's a mixed bag of a bunch of things. Okay. Sorry. That's that's all right. >> I think what you're referring to is the line where he mentions Hoy. that's either cut or it's from the flood or something, but that's a new recording because Captain Keys has a new actor. So, it's >> Steve DS and Jen Taylor are back. Uh, the actor for 343 Guilty Spark is back even though he sounds wildly different. And then they recast uh Captain Keys and Sergeant Johnson. And then they kept the old dialogue for Fauxhammer. >> Yeah. >> It's very bizarre. >> Yeah. >> There's so many jokes you can make about that. It's like, wow, you didn't want the the black woman back in the recording booth, you bigots. Right. Yeah. >> I think it's just one of those like it's remake. You need to just you need to redo them all. You are >> remaking redo some of them. Redo all of them. Yeah. >> Well, I mean if take something like Metal Gear Solid Delta where they just took all the voice work for Metal Gear Solid 3 and like the original stuff that was done and just reanimated over that. Like I don't know why they couldn't have just done that here. If you're going to if you're going to do this, I mean, I'm not saying it's I'm not saying this should have existed, but if you're going to do this, like don't don't bring the cast 25 years later and especially don't mix and match that with takes that already been done 25 years ago cuz like obviously the cast is aged. They're going to sound different. Mhm. Um that I think the reason for that is just like there's small little tweaks to the story they've done and so they need the actors back in to like bring up the pistol plotline or change the the control room cutscene or what have you >> and that's why they need the new takes >> right >> battleships against a single houseion class cruiser with those odds I'm content with three make that four kills sleep well >> no thanks to your driving Yes. >> So, you did miss me. >> Oh, that hurts. >> That's a hard one. >> That hurts. That's >> no thanks to your driving. Yes. >> So, you did miss me. >> I get just dragged like women playing tennis. >> It's just taking so long. It >> must be one of their boarding parties. I'd guess an antimatter charge. >> Report. >> It must have been one of their boarding parties. I'd guess an antimatter charge. >> Notice how everybody's rushing. >> Urgency. Yeah. And you see in the background, people are running around because the ship's under heavy attack and it's probably going down and this is a really dire situation. So, they don't have time to just very slowly walk across a corridor and start pressing buttons and delivering lines with langanger. That's not how they should be speaking. >> I think the alarm being taken out, too, is t taking t taking away from the composition of the soundsscape of the of the new version of the scene because >> agreed >> there's no blaring alarm in the background. >> There is just a general lack of urgency like throughout all of the voice acting in this like with the marines like you never believe that they're in any real danger. They're just like very slightly raising their voices. >> Yep. >> And it's just throughout the game. >> We are a minute into this cut scene and we are already have a like 15sec disparity between the lengths. >> Yep. What is it? Where do you feel it? >> Sure. >> For the main is offline. >> Captain, the cannon was my last offensive option. >> Ma'am, fire control FOR THE MAIN CANNON IS OFFLINE. >> LIKE THAT'S the original. The cannon was my last offensive option. >> Emergency wasting my [ __ ] time. >> I mean, I I can I can give that one the reason he he'd pause and really think about like, do we need to do this? You know, he's >> No, nothing. Nothing. I I give nothing to this. No, not a single thing. >> Not even that. >> I don't think on his feet. Yeah, >> he would react immediately. >> I think Yeah, I think that there's something to be said for that um for the the the very rapid pace. Sorry. Yeah. Anyway, we can talk. >> Few extra seconds for something that important. I don't think it's that >> there are a few more examples. rags. I'm going to make >> it's about to get worse. This this next gap is there. >> No, no. I this only don't don't put it to anything else. I'm just specifically talking about that one. >> That's a no. >> I mean, you could say it's small, but at the same time, it's meaningful, right? It does tell you something. It's slightly different of character, how fast he can uh sort of >> react to the urgency of it. >> Mhm. I'm initiating coal protocol article 2. We're abandoning the autumn. That means you too, Cortana. >> All right, then. I'm initiating cold protocol article 2. We're abandoning the autumn. That means you too, Cortana. >> While you do what? Go down with the ship. >> Oh, in a matter of speaking. >> While you do what? Go down with the ship. >> In a matter of speaking. >> They got rid of his pipe. >> They got rid of the pipe. the ship captain in his pipe. No, that's too much. >> They're smoking. We don't want to have characters smoking in our uh in our video game. >> The object we found. I'm going >> Yeah. And so, as was pointed out before, that object we found that we haven't seen yet. We're going to land on it. >> This is this is your introduction to the setting of this game is this [ __ ] monitor. >> Oh, that it's not actually yet it in space as it would be seen. But >> yeah, we've got no sense for like the scale of it because the diagram in the background isn't scaled properly. So, it's just like this could be like a wedding ring that the ship has detected somewhere. >> It feels like one of those I feel like it's one of those oddly definitive moments of the remake. It's like in the opening shot, Halo was there and then it's not there and it's just a bunch of stars in the background. It's just like where's Halo? >> Like oddly evocative of the whole [ __ ] issue. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> It's the perfect metaphor. You start with the void. You start with nothing because this remake is nothing. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> With all due respect, sir, this war has enough dead heroes. >> The object we found, I'm going to try and land the autumn on it. >> With all due respect, sir, this war has enough dead heroes. >> I appreciate your concern, Cortana, but it's not up to me. The protocol is clear. Destruction or capture of a shipboard AI is absolutely unacceptable. And >> I think this is where it's the inflection when the sentences end are often the same. And I I don't think I have an issue with necessarily. It's hard to tell because it's it's like a hypothetical different game with the voice actor himself, but the way that like the inflection happens and how the direction is, but we get the same thing with Jen Taylor. It's just marketkedly worse than in the original, even though it is it's actually the exact same person. So, it doesn't just affect her. I just it it's kind of everywhere. It just sounds like it's not there at the deliveries. >> It sounds like you're leaving. >> Voice director is pointlessly changing the direction of the scene be to in order to make it different. >> Yeah. Or there is no direction and they're just kind of doing whatever or I don't know what's going on. >> [ __ ] Well, I I had somebody in my chat point something out that I think is actually quite accurate is like back like when these lines were initially recorded, >> the staff had no problem giving direction to the actors like or like pressing them until they got the correct take. But then after 25 years, they've become like celebrities, those actors. And then then you put them in a voice booth with the Halo Studio staff and they're I think they're a little bit intimidated to give them direction or too much direction and then you know the the the actors will give takes that are like they feel is appropriate but they need somebody they need a director to reign them in but then the Halo Studios staff won't do that they'll just be like that was fine >> or they don't want to spend the money to have them around for longer to get retakes on these lines >> that emergency like I'm I'm just saying like that that could have been the case. Like I I don't know that for sure, but >> I have a good I have a feeling that that might have been what was partly what was happening. >> Landing zones, upload them to my neural links, then sort yourself for a hard transfer. >> I I sir, >> I appreciate your concern, Cortana, but it's not up to me. Protocol is clear. Destruction or capture of a shipboard AI is absolutely unacceptable, and that means you're leaving ship. Lock in a selection of emergency landing zones, upload them to my neural lace, and then sort yourself for a heart transfer. >> I I sir, >> another little time wasting. >> Why the long pause? Exactly. >> I I I put in the like two frames of pause that happened in the original game to compare seconds. Let's get started. >> Cinematic. >> Yeah, it sure is. >> Keep her safe from the enemy. >> If they capture her, they'll learn everything. >> Force deployment, weapons research, >> Earth. >> So, this is going to be a comment. I don't like the change up in like it doesn't close up when he says Earth to put emphasis on it. It shows Master Chief's not phase. >> It's just a weird dichotomy. >> Yeah. where you these things are intentional changes. >> Get Cortana off this ship. Keep her safe from the enemy. If they capture her, they'll learn. Look at >> that panning camera. >> Everything force deployment, weapons, research, >> Earth. I understand. >> There will rendevous in the object surface. And if it doesn't >> I I think I I this drew me this drew me drove me crazy seeing this like oh shut up. What are you doing? >> Hey yes, you know what? We can fix out of old by trying to have more of a direct connection to Halo 2. Uh we have to set her up and it is a checks gun. This is a jackob's gun that >> they were brilliant for this. >> Oh yeah. Profound. >> Seen the New York Finance Seal. >> Make sure my daughter gets this. >> Make sure my daughter gets my handgun. I'm like, "Okay, I'll do that." Yeah. They could have just done the pipe, but I guess they don't get to use it later. >> Yeah. Tell her that one out of me. >> The tank form. Kill a pipe. Kill a tank foam with a pipe. You could do that. >> Yeah. Cancer. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Like what what makes this even more dumb is like the the skin on the gun in this cutscene is unlockable. Like you don't get this by default. So like you have to later unlock the the skin for the gun that then falls in line with what the cut scenes have established. So, I guess you're just meant to understand by default like playing vanilla like keys gives you a different magnum than what you pull out when you first >> I thought they would contextualize >> play the game and start having control over the gun >> play just packs it away to never be used until the end cut scene. >> Yeah, exactly. That's what I thought. which to be fair is [ __ ] in the sense that like if I run out of ammo and I've got a [ __ ] working gun like nope >> no it's sentimental. Why would you use it? Wait, except for the part where he does use it for danger. So >> I am uh I don't like how um like how gody it is the the design of the gun itself. I I think if they have to keep it, it would have been better if it was almost exactly like a regular sidearm. >> Just a service. Okay, idiot. How are you going to know that it's that gun at the end though, idiot? >> True. We shouldn't have it. >> They need to make it iconic so you go, "Oh my god, it's the iconic gun." >> I like that you only see >> Captain Key sidearm. >> It's on Master Chief's back in the truth and reconciliation cut scene and then you don't see it again until the end of the game. Like it's not even on >> they don't want you >> because the problem is if if in third person if they constantly show it then you'll be asking, "How come I can never use it?" >> But not even the cut scenes. They're not in the cut scenes either because then they'll be like, "Oh, how come I can't use it? It's right there." >> Yeah. How come that out? >> I didn't know it actually showed up in the truth and reconciliation cut scenes. Does it show up in those? >> Because you offer it to him. You offer it to Keys to find it. >> Oh, right. But does he have it rendered on his back before he pulls it off to offer >> and the little projector that he has for Cortana that they just randomly show up on his back for that cut scene? >> Okay. Yeah, that's >> will continue evasive maneuvers until you initiate a landing sequence. >> Not that you'll listen, but I'd suggest letting my sub routines handle the final approach. >> The Autumn will continue evasive maneuvers until you initiate a landing sequence. >> Not that you'll listen, but I'd suggest letting my sub routines handle the final approach. >> Excellent. >> Why does she sound older in the original version? >> Because she's more mature. >> She sounds more mature. Yeah, >> it's like flatter delivery. >> It's the pitch. She's like doing higher pitch at an older voice that makes her sound younger than she really is. >> Something about it. She just >> like she's in her 50s now. >> Good work, Ortana. Thank you. Are you ready? >> Yank me. >> Excellent work, Cortuna. Thank you. Are you ready? >> Yank me. >> Why did you take so long? >> Yeah, just look at the disparity in the time codes between the original. >> A minute plus. >> Yeah, this adds up over the course of the game. >> Yep. Good luck, Master Chief. >> Ah, yes. And I changed when he says goodbye to me cuz I suck. >> Your architecture isn't that much different from the Autumns. >> Why would you play this music right now? >> The Halo this you play the Halo music now because Cortana's in his suit. >> Well, and where's the Halo music? >> The fade to white sells that like you're experiencing this. It's like suddenly you're overwhelmed by this entity and it's like >> Mhm. No, >> a very deliberate and timely use of the the transition to like a fade to white. Yeah. Yeah. >> And then back in during game play >> from the >> Don't get any funny ideas. Don't get any funny ideas. >> And it is just like time to stare. >> This is going to go really hard on Twitter when you post these screenshots. Good luck, Master Chief. >> Why is it better that he doesn't say it to him? Why is it better? >> Just says it to nobody's walked away. >> Yep. He's aura farming. >> Yeah, I guess so. >> He's saying it to us, guys. >> Yeah. No, the comparison. >> He's looking at you. >> Jeff Epste's looking at you. So, >> Oh god. The That's an extra minute and a half. Uh or at least that's why That's why I say this game makes you appreciate the original Halo CE because I would never before this came out go, "Oh yeah, the original Halo SE cut scenes. They're punchy. They get to the point really fast. It's not something that I'm thinking about, but now that I've seen the same thing but [ __ ] up, I'm like, "Oh yeah, I guess the original Halo cut scenes were like punchy and the point." >> Now, uh, now we just enter into just a total descent into hell. I'm going to I'm going to make us look at certain cut scenes and we're going to talk about them. I will say I think I I got to jump to uh Oh, here it is. Uh we're we're not going in chronological order. We're jumping around a little bit, >> right? Sorry. >> So, this cut scene >> this one. Yeah. >> This cutscene is uh the the the demise of keys. So, let's just uh let's just get started here. We're not spoilers. >> Yeah. Yeah. It says spoilers in the the title of the video, so you know, no excuses. Anyway, >> sorry chat >> to emphasize, there's like 15% more cutscene over the course of the entire game that is just like time wasting. center screen for uh a vertical viewing. >> Chief, Chief, >> how do we free you? >> Okay, now I'm sorry, Rags. I have to stop here cuz I I seen this portion of your stream. You said you liked this choice. >> I Yeah, I I like that dialogue. I I think that it's in character for him to see Keys and be thinking that there's a there's a way to like get him out or save him or something almost like extinctually. >> Okay. >> Almost even like maybe with a a tiny bit of desperation the entire game about killing like the other human flood people. >> That's number one. >> Okay. Yeah, fair enough. Um I guess he would know based off of all the combat forms he's been fighting. Um do you think it implies some kind of a personal connection with Keys that didn't exist before? So, this is what I would say. I think it's out of character. I think it is um I think it is entirely out of character. I think I think if there's one thing that can be said for Master Chief as well as all of the Spartans is that they don't tend to indulge in essentially delusion. Um they they accept the circumstances as they are pretty rapidly. Um maybe you could say like to an to an extent that is very unusual for human beings. Like for him to look at Keys after he's just spent the last several hours killing a bunch of clearly [ __ ] up by the flood forms. The idea that he would see Keys and he would be so overcome by the emotion of seeing Keys there that he would even remotely entertain the idea that Keys could be saved in any capacity I think is just totally out of character. >> But that's his stepdad. >> That's his stepdad cuz Keys is boning Hoy now. That's like canon. Like it it's just um it's funny someone pointed out that in reach that's the case where it's when uh when they're on the the the Pelican with Carter like six he he only initiates slightly the conversation and Carter immediately shuts down like I don't want to hear it you got to get the package to the autumn and then he just accepts it and Emil accepts it immediately as well. >> That's like one example I would point to of just like the circumstance as it is is just accepted immediately. It matches how Master Chief was written post Halo 4 where he was more sentimental and melodramatic. And that's I think why they made that change. They wanted it to be more consistent with their [ __ ] up version of Master Chief instead of how he originally was, which is stoic and to the point. >> I'm confused because I think that this surely fits quite well with him taking out his little emotional suppression pellet from his spine. Right. >> Yes. That is it. >> Yes, that is the the prequel encountered with uh there's more in this cut scene that drives me crazy. So, >> it's not him. Not anymore. The captain, he's one of them. >> So sterile. >> And then he become alien. >> He's all gooey. We can't let the flood get off this ring. You know what he'd expect. >> So that to me is crazy. Like >> what he'd want us to do. >> Like it's almost as if she thinks he's going to smack her and then and then she needs to like reformat it in a way that doesn't unleash his rage. >> Now that you point that out, that is what it sounds like. In the original, it's more like she was trying to convince herself that that was the right thing because she's the human side of this duo. >> Yeah, >> she's the one that [ __ ] up. >> That's what stood out to me was I was like, why is she trying? It sounded like she was worried that Chief is going to decide we take Keys with us or something or we don't hurt him. And you're like, that would be insane. Why would you need to convince him that we've got to wipe Keys the [ __ ] out? >> Um, it sounds like she's talking to John Halo. like she's trying to talk him back from some insane thing that John Halo is doing. >> It's it's a very odd directorial choice. Like as if he's like unhinged in this moment and he's she's just like tiptoeing around egg like around eggshells just being like >> just listen to me. Okay, we we got to do this thing. Like I feel like Chief doesn't need this. >> May I take a reality understand >> he's already made the decision essentially. She's the one who needs to convince herself. I get like is there a good Shaw keys a second? Oh, that's good enough. >> Ah, where was it? Come back to me. >> So, >> yeah. >> I don't know how you guys feel about this. Maybe it's maybe it's too nitpicky. Who knows? >> No, I I agree with whatever you're about cuz you're about to say >> whatever you're saying. >> I know what it is. >> You agree with that. >> You're saying that he looks sad rather than like deformed like in in there's an argument to make here. >> I think I think on either side. >> Yeah. So, >> I think I had mentioned he reminds me of Scarsgard and Pirates of the Caribbean. >> I way prefer, and I'm going to call it the art design of the original game. This [ __ ] is horrifying to me >> that he's like folded and formed into it so much. There's there's almost little of him left. >> He's just a face. >> Like, that's creepy as [ __ ] The new one, I was like, uh, we're doing that. It's more like generic infected. Yeah. >> Reminded me of like he's been turned into a Resident Evil goo monster. I was half expecting to have to fight him. >> He's a he's like to the point >> where I when I when I saw this form I think on Combat Evolved I was like what is that? And then I was like it has feet. And then when I was like oh god like that's but this you know you're not making any mistakes. That's keys. Keys keys keys keys keys. Yeah. Okay. I got it. >> Mhm. >> Yep. >> Don't like that change. I I feel like if it was Resident Evil, he'd be arguing with you about how it's the superior form of human evolution. He'd be like, "Dude, get get on my level, dude." Like, >> yeah. Then he's right away on a motorbike. >> It's awesome. >> He just spilled some honey on his head. >> We can't let the flood get off this ring. You know what he'd expect. >> Like, she's scared of him. what he'd want us to do. >> She's scared of monsters. >> Shut up. >> She's trying not to set him off. Yeah. >> I don't care for the change in how he kills him. >> Yeah. I don't I don't like >> Well, this is the biggest problem arguably. >> Yeah. >> Don't even know why the game's going to get an immerating anyways. Like >> very clean. >> It's done. I have the code. We should go. >> I know. After this cut scene, I went like manually to look and make sure he like wasn't moving. I like shot him and stuff. Like, is he dead? >> And here's the best part is that if you smack him, if you smack him, he drops a skull. >> He drops the skull. >> He's like the panicked marine. >> Yeah, like the marine, which I don't know. It feels like it betrays the tone a little bit, but hey, whatever. >> We'll taste the >> Where's the pistol? >> I'm I'm a little bit on the fence. >> You would think he's pistol would show up in this game. >> Wait, sorry. What were you about to say, John? I I'm on the fence with this because I feel like the close-up shot on Keys is a little undignified in one sense because like I kind of like how it cuts away from his face in the original >> and then you just see him like dig his fist in to get the thing out like like it's just too terrible to like look at. So you just like pull the thing out of his head that you need and then you just leave. >> Yeah. It's like the the the the camera holds on his face. The reason I'm on the fence is that in the close shot, you see that he's kind of letting go in a way where it's you almost see the relief in his expression where it's just like, "Oh, thank God. Just kill me, dude, cuz I can't do this anymore." Um, but I think I ultimately prefer that the camera angle cut away from his face >> to a wider angle. >> The way especially implying that he's punching through the face and not like reaching behind it, >> it just it definitively establishes that he kills him. I think that's what helps is that he seems like he's still alive at the end of the remake cut scene. >> Yeah, I had to check. >> Yeah. >> Where it's like I like that Master Chief definitively kills him in the definitive way. He smashes his brain like Good. >> Yes. >> Yep. Exactly. Which uh now this cuz uh this is this cut scene here. We're got we're sort of it's we're looking at a bit of a different Oh, what's that? >> Oh, uh sorry. I got like I was just thinking about the cuz we're not doing we're doing the prequel cut scenes after this set, are we? >> Mhm. >> Uh we can take a look at the prequel cut scenes afterward. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's all good. So, so you know the the more but you know let's >> Yeah, let's do this first because I love the tonal contrast of like we watched the supposedly horrifying scene. Now here's some goofy [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> I was by the way just to remind me um and are you supposed to cuz every time I played this section where I left on the banshee I jumped on it when it was in the air and hijacked it. But in the cut scene you it takes off from the ground. >> Is that how you're in the original you can't hijack it. So yeah, you're meant to >> Well, they >> in this they do land. If you wait they land because that's what I did. >> They land in the original too. It's just that in the original you can't hijack. In this one you can. And so I think I did as well which funny. >> It was always like oh yeah every time I do it it doesn't match the cut scene. But it's fine. I was just curious. That was a smash cut. >> How How did you ruin this cut scene? How is it even possible? >> It's this the static fixed shots. So, so yes, obviously that's the point is that in the original cut scene, you have a nice big sweeping 360 shot of the Pillar of autumn with this music playing and it really gives you a lot of time to sort of have that sink in. This is where you began and look at it now all alone >> like just desolate destroyed. This is kind of like your last >> This is like regular desert, not creepy desert. >> They're like, "Yeah, no. We'll just have some rapid We'll just have some cuts between static shots instead of the dynamism of the moving camera. I don't get it. How' they do this, guys? How How is this possible? >> I guess there was some decision made that the static alternating shots would just be more better. >> I don't know why. I've heard the theory that they uh composed all of these shots with AI. Not necessarily just like typed in a prompt and got this back, but that like they asked for like scene compositions and then rendered from there whatever they got back. And that's why it's so static with the way that it's directed. >> God, >> it's not artistically interesting. It's kind of like in the opening cut scenes, you didn't get those like camera movements that kind of gave it a bit of character. And this is is it this is very standard very standard shot. >> And it always makes you want because every time they copy something directly you're like well I don't need a justification for that. Like I understand why anyone would copy anything from a borderline masterpiece if not masterpiece of a game >> that you are remaking. >> But then when you do change so dramatically such obvious and simple things all I can assume is like so you thought this was better. Why? Tell me. >> Yeah. Why did you change? >> Tell me why. Maybe the engine couldn't handle the camera movement. No, this is a pre-rendered cut scene, so you don't even know the model rendered at runtime. >> They have to model the entire ship on the outside of it if they want to do the the spinning panning kind of shot. >> They already did though. >> Like, so >> they already did the start of the game. >> Yep. Just terrible. >> Also, the music's been butchered because the cut scene doesn't last as long. It'll hold. It's falling apart. What was that? >> It'll hold. >> What's that line delivery? >> The first take. >> We're not gonna make it. >> We're not going to make it. >> Yeah, that just happened. Sounds like his >> focus. Pull up. >> Yeah, she is like she's his mom sitting in the passenger seat like telling him how to drive. Now I can tell though. Did >> we see it explode in the original? I can't remember. Did we see the banshe? >> No, that shot's new. >> No. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, um, this, by the way, uh, the Oh, wait. What? What's going alternate? This shot here. Um, I know you think it's cool, but this makes the Halo ring look tiny. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And it already looks tiny when we see it. It looks chunky and short. Kind of weird. >> Makes it really look small. I'm sure we referenced that bit of a ring. >> I think uh the best part >> almost all of us when we arrived on Halo, like the Halo mission, all of us looked up. We're like, "Wait a minute. >> Looks pretty. >> Why is it so fast?" >> My favorite part my favorite part of this shot is once the level loads in, the sun is way off uh in the top left. It's not behind the ring. >> So, it's just nice lack of continuity there. That's why I think it's AI like >> that that the lack of continuity tracking. >> But that's that's a lot of the cutscenes that are pre-rendered. Virtually every pre-rendered cutscene instantly there's a difference between you and gameplay lighting and then you and cutscene lighting. It matches the rest of the game. So, they're very consistent with their inconsistent lighting. >> Yeah. I wouldn't want to let them get off with their own human incompetence by blaming it on AI. I think that's too easy. Always just always think if this were 10 years ago, what would you would you have said was the problem? >> Somebody who is annoyed with all of the AI accusations. Like someone is trying to say like the voices are all AI. I don't think that's true at all. I think it's just incomp direction. I think however that the key shots the uh the storyboarding of this there's probably AI being used in these compositions >> and that's why there's I think I feel the same way as Platoon actually. It's just no. I think they think these are great ideas. >> This is a we're talking about a Microsoft company. They mandate AI usage in in that organization. >> Yeah. But you also have to put yourself that you have to develop a theory of mind for somebody incompetent enough to make this game. Um and like how do they track things themselves? Do they think how does this shot here track in terms of continuity with the preceding and succeeding shots? Or do they think oh wouldn't it be cool if we have the ring in front of the sun? Oh, wouldn't it be cool if we did this? That's just how these people think. They They have basically half a brain. >> Yeah. But other people use AI, too. >> I I think it's valid. I do. I just um >> Good god, the people who made this, you know, like it could be completely different people who made this moment to the next few seconds for all we know, or they have sleep or whatever. But it also could be AI. It's It's just Maybe that's the real horror. It's hard to tell. >> Mhm. I'm I'm gonna drag us back to the uh to the the the Pillar of Autumn scene where they they go to Halo because I this one is >> blew my mind. >> Blew my mind. So >> I like the message he actually picked the guy up and physically threw him all the way in. >> Yeah. just shows >> yeah would be a very good time to leave good old quirk Chungus Cortada >> I don't this is like the beginning of it especially so in the hunter um cut scene when they're leaving the truth and reconciliation but whenever you see Master Chief in combat in a cutscene he's very stiff he's standing in the open he's never doing what the player would do I think is one of the big disconnects the issue with the truth and reconciliation cut scene well are we going to cover that one because if we are then we can >> we can go back we circle back to that one. Yeah, there's a there's a handful that I think are particularly egregious and that that is one of them. So, we'll I'll save it for when we get to it then. >> Punch it. >> Ah, sir. >> Just not just >> Wow, what an interesting shot >> because it could have been like that could have been neat to see like it leaving the tube and everything. They were going to show an exterior shot and then the bottom gets smaller and smaller behind you. >> Like they just >> It does feel like >> like I cut out a middle portion or something. >> Something happened. >> The music is all wrong already, but you're about to see why that's the case. >> It feels very >> Look at this. Look at how sterile it is. >> Oh, another guy. >> Yeah. >> We're going to make it, aren't we, sir? I don't want to die out here. One thing I noticed, someone mentioned it in chat because I because I uh I gave this game too much credit. Um I assumed that these things were like u that they're holding on to the Marines. I assumed that they were like the like a roller coaster ride bar that came down and went across your chest, but they're just they're not connected to these seats. They're not strapped in. There are no seat belts. There's nothing going across their chests. >> They're just sitting down and holding on to those bars. They're not actually strapped. >> No wonder they all [ __ ] died. >> That means the chat said that and I'm like, "No, that's not true." They're obviously like those are like the roller coaster bars. But then afterwards when it crashed and you looked around, you're like, "Oh." Cuz remember, no one's in their seats in in the Crash version in this. In the original, there's a bunch of dead Marines that are actually still strapped into their seats. Yeah. But in this, they're just they're not even seats anymore because of course, even with the roller coaster logic, they're not tight enough, are they? Like the gap between >> and shoulders. I feel like it's AI because you ask an AI to compose the scene and it's like, "All right, here's the roller coaster crash bar, but it doesn't actually function like that because it doesn't have a sense of continuity." >> Wait, wait, how many fingers does that guy have? >> They've they've conquered the finger problem at this point. >> Again, >> AI for composition, not for the actual like >> the [ __ ] finger thing to me feels like the AI itself was like, we'll make a bunch of finger mistakes. So the moment that they all focus on that that they'll never know when we're actually >> malicious compliance. >> Yeah. It it is funny though that the whole seat belt thing if that cuz I I didn't notice that but now that you mentioned it like Yeah. cuz I remember they the door gets open during the sequence and a load of guys fly out with cuz they're not wearing seat belts. >> So it means that they put in they put in extra effort to include this big epic crash scene that you just don't get in the in the original game. >> Um >> and by doing it they've essentially depicted the UNC as being [ __ ] >> Yeah. as you will see in a second. >> Yeah, that's actually that's an anti-AII argument because that implies that like the the seats are poorly designed so that they can have that stupid shot of the marine flying out. >> Oh god. Yeah, we're getting there. >> Look. >> Oh, here it comes. The halo from Halo >> accompanied by the theme from Halo. >> Oh my gosh. When I saw it, >> I feel actual cringe. >> You You have gotten it so so utterly and spectacularly wrong. It's incredible to me. >> This is This is the same as with the Mark 5 reveal, like having it be a grand reveal because of retroactive significance. But in this case, you've got a complete clash of tones. The whole point of this cuts in in the original is it's chaos. The pillar of order is going down. We're mir, you know, this we don't want to crash land on this planet, but we got no choice. amidst the chaos, we go down and the music is ramping up, you know, but in this case, they had it at the beginning, but then they have to bring it to a dead stop so that we can have the or inspiring with the monks for the Halo theme as Halo is revealed behind the planet. You've just gotten it totally backwards cuz you're incredibly stupid. It's just >> so this would be an example maybe of you can you can easily believe this isn't AI because you know why the human did this. >> I know why they chose to do this. Yeah, >> I like the phrase retroactive significance. >> This was this was a human's mistake right here. This is >> Well, it was definitely a human decision to not start the game with Halo because it's like, oh, I got a creative idea for >> if they see it now, we can't have a reveal later. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. a hype moment in the Twitch streams. >> I think they genuinely thought the reveal of the Halo ring on the the monitors in game >> was like a captivating first depiction of the ring. >> I think like actually seeing it in game, >> which is what the game did, right? That was literally the first shot. >> This is This is 11 This is 12 minutes into the game, like into the cut scenes. >> Yeah. Yeah. No. >> Yeah. You don't see handler for like the first 30 minutes. >> Yeah. Well, in the original game, you see it literally the first shot. >> It's like I don't think it has any apprehension into like like when it reveals it again. >> It's like it just it comes up whenever they feel it needs to. >> Whereas in this like they've withheld the reveal of it. Like you don't see it in the first shot. You just see stars in the first shot and then the first indication of Halo is in the monitors and then this shot here that we're that we're watching is the actual first reveal to the audience of the Halo ring. >> But and it doesn't work as well. And also >> which why I buy the argument that it's completely built for returning fans who are meta involved into like how cool the [ __ ] Halo ring is because it's in the main menu. Yeah, like bring that up like it's the logic that since you see it on the main menu, they don't need to open the game with it, >> even though that's how it was originally. >> I mean, even even with that, >> the uh the the significance is given here is is so obviously meant for one specific purpose. >> Yeah, you remember Halo and you like it, so like us and give us money. Yeah, >> you might not like know it at the time, but especially after completing a a playthrough of Halo, when you learn about the story and the sort of the history of humanity's ancient past and everything, the idea of starting the game off with a shot of Halo almost like subtly implies that it's like waiting for us to come back or it's waiting to be found again or that it's just there and then we show up. It's not It doesn't start off with us. It starts off with Halo and then We Arrive again, which is a a read you can put into the cinematic choices, >> but this is more important to have the big reveal with the Halo music because that's what you that's what's special about Halo, you know, that's like you said that phrase retroactive significance. Hey, the good tunes wherever you put them. >> That's how it works. >> That thing, Lieutenant. >> A big old ring. >> It's also awkward. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it takes so long. >> This is meant to be a frantic landing. This is a crash landing. >> Don't worry. When you do the Why does the I'm sorry. Does the air like push the What's there's air in space? >> If you stop accelerating going in manual What's the point of Why is it so long? Why are these shots so long? >> Crazy screenshots. >> This new sort of I I I wonder how much might be in this game, but you guys are aware of it, right? Like a lot of modern games, they will have moments in the middle of cut scenes that play slightly longer if they're loading [ __ ] >> Have you seen that? >> I don't even know. They're just playing a They're playing a video file. >> No, no, I'm not talking I haven't gotten to Halo yet. I'm referencing like Star Wars Outlaws has that one that everyone picked up on where she's pressing buttons on the console. >> Screens of Hell Divers 2 are kind of designed to be like that. >> Yeah, it's a new cuz they're always trying to find new ways of hiding loading screens, >> but it's happening in mid-m mission. >> I haven't even gotten to Halo yet. Like, you keep I'm not even saying it's in Halo. I'm saying it. The discipline of trying to do that sort of [ __ ] could probably lead to a mindset where people are creating cutcenes now that are just [ __ ] longer paced. Not necessarily because they're hiding loading screens, but because this is like the discipline to create loading or rather to create uh uh cut scenes in general. >> I think it's self-indulgent and it's for people to take screenshots and post them on Halo Reddit. >> Some of them are weird though, like that gap that we just saw >> is going in manual. the one uh this one I I could sort of understand why they put it up, but this one it's like >> that screenshots got some Master Chiefs in it. It's for people. >> Yeah, we're I could imply that they were indeed looking forward out of out of the cockpit as they moved forward like Yeah. But that stuff really does add up. Like I said, the idea that we're 12 and a half minutes into cut scenes already and we basically we haven't even gotten to Halo yet is wild. one has bothered you so much that you're gonna leave. >> Yeah, I do have to leave unfortunately. I've got some I've got some family stuff that I need to, you know, go and be doing. And I uh so, as much as I'd like to stay and make fun of this terrible game uh for longer because Lord knows after all my time with it, I have things to say and things. This is the kind of game where things constantly pop up. Hey, remember this bad thing. Remember this bad thing. Remember this bad thing. Uh but I I will have to depart unfortunately. So, I'll have to catch this uh later on when I uh you know, I got a moment to rewatch the stream. >> Is there anything you want to mention about the game just in case that you haven't been able to yet? >> Um I I don't think anything like super huge pops up right off the top of my head. Uh the thing I think that before I go I because I alluded to it. The thing that I was going to mention about the cut scene at like truth and reconciliation like we got when they were entering into the escape pod is that the master chief doesn't behave at all like the player would behave if they had control of him while he's in a cut scene when the two um when the two hunters are, you know, coming at him from opposite angles. He's just sort of like standing there still shooting them in the front with an assault rifle kind of anemically. Yeah. And he then he just like he seems to just be still and resign himself to dying until he's saved. Which was really like weird. Like I why are why are you taking away control from me when this could be something you you could have put in? Like at the very end there's like a there's a hunter fight or something and instead you just have him do things that no player would ever have him do. It just kind of makes him seem like an idiot which I think is kind of weird as a decision but oh they made up for it with a slow-mo. Thank god. I've seen it described as um a Bollywood scene which I think is pretty accurate actually. >> Yeah. Yeah, it does kind of have that like it's trying really really way way too hard to be cool and it come just as like goofy and weird. But yeah. Um but I I do have to go. I wish I could stay and make fun of this game. But I but alas I cannot. But I'm sure we'll be making fun of it more as time goes on. So >> we will see you next week or more. >> I think you probably will. I think you probably will see me next week. Oh, I can't wait to see what happens next week. Oh, boy. >> Oh, all right. Thanks. Uh, I will see everyone later. Enjoy talking about Halo. >> T-Rex. >> Oh, I thought you said what? Yeah. Byebye. >> All right, let's continue. March on with these cutscenes. Wow. Very dynamic stuff. >> Heads up everyone. This is it. We're entering the ring's atmosphere in five. Here comes my favorite part. >> Why are they so boring? Look at that. No energy at all. >> You sure you wouldn't rather take a seat? >> We'll be fine. >> No, they don't have seat belts. >> Take a seat. >> I this part. >> Yeah, >> we're coming in too fast. >> Damn. Air brake failure. They blew too early. >> Why'd you do that? >> Yeah, >> I'm losing her. Right for impact. >> So, uh, not only is that really funny, but I think that's quite bad. Uh, you shouldn't show that. >> Yeah. Um you like like chief is seeing that people are flying out and he's not trying to save them. >> This is um I think there slight bit of complications because I I remember people in my stream were like what was he supposed to do? And it's like I think this is more about why show this to me. Why show me flying out and then having Chief watch it pretty just statically like well there they go. I I don't really want to see him do it again. >> In the actual crash landing in the original game, there are guys outside of the the lifeboat. But the thing is is that because you don't see what happens, you don't know what happened to Chief. You know that he got something to happen cuz he like wakes up. >> Well, the solution, you know, >> it seems to me is you you show him making some kind of movement body language wise that shows he thought to instinctively help them but can't. >> But can't. Yeah, exactly. Instead of just watching as they fly out. Oh well, see if I >> Well, I mean, I don't know how about how I feel about him being in his current position and then like reaching out and being like, "Oh, I could have done something, but uh I can't I couldn't do it." Like or like as opposed to him being where like the like at the door that's opening and then he can just catch the Marines as they're like flying out. >> I just want to cut. >> Maybe he could have positioned himself. That's the ultimate point is if you show me this, it's really [ __ ] awkward. Just cut it. Don't show me it. And if you're going to show me it, you have to understand this. This looks really not great that they're just flying out. She's just like, "Oh, oh well. Bye." >> Uh, how many people laughed at this uh when I lost >> because we laughed at it. >> Hilarious. It takes away from it fundamentally undermines the moment not just of this cut scene but of the opening of the level as well because you're still recovering from how like funny and stupid this was that it robs you of that moment of stepping out of the pod because I was still laughing at that point. >> Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Wow. That was worth it. Welcome. >> They added something that strictly made the story worse. >> Yeah. >> about evil goober keys creature than he is about, you know, marines who are actually fully human who he could have maybe done something to help. And then I don't know at what point in the in that scene when does he get knocked out and how >> cuz it seems that you've been shown all of the most violent and dramatic part of the landing. So, he gets knocked out when you actually hit the ground slower than when you hit the cliff earlier. It doesn't really make a huge amount of sense. >> Yeah, it doesn't need to be explained. And I feel like they did it just because they wanted to answer the question of how do the Marines die if the other landings don't kill all the Marines. >> Well, we saw it. The air the brakes failed. >> Yeah, >> that's why they came in too hard. So, it's like the the additional context of the Marines flying out just becomes a punchline instead of a a dramatic uh undertone. >> I mean, it's it's a Call of Duty scene. It happens in Modern Warfare. >> Oh, well that Yeah, it's the Yeah, with the Nuke. >> The drop ship is >> this is We've seen it. But >> everybody mount up. >> Let's get on board. Give me a minute to interface with the ship's controls. Ah, >> no need. I'll take this bird out myself. >> Captain, >> I don't know. He just keeps making me think of Reagan when I see him. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Hunters, >> I got that in my chat, too. >> This one is so [ __ ] stupid. Why? >> Where did he come from? Why wasn't he already aboard? >> It's such a huge betrayal of the mechanics. It's like the hunters got you [ __ ] if you don't do anything about this, Chief. And Chief's like, "No, I'll stay here. I'll stay here. >> I'll stay here and shoot at their shields." >> Different doors. Why aren't they together? Hunters travel in pairs. >> Yep. >> There's never been a sequence where two hunters came from different entrances. >> A crazy miss from the hunter. >> Well, that's to be fair to everything else in the game. >> Look at where it shot. Look at that line. >> That That's the most accurate part of this cut scene. >> Yep. Chief, bro, what is the plan? What is the plan, my dude? Plan >> is to die. >> Time for a little payback. >> Now, you see, you see, he knew that was going to happen cuz he did. >> Boo. >> So much worse than the original again. >> Slow motion. You so lame. >> The slow motion is like the unnecessary detail. >> It insists upon itself. Oh yeah. It's like, hey, look, look at how cool this is. >> Now we're going to because we are jumping around a bit. So >> the uh the the Yeah. >> Oh god. Yeah, this one. >> No, >> every line in this is worse. Do we have a comparison for this one? Cuz every single line is worse. >> I did not set one up for this uh cut scene. It's also the direction of it. This long drawn out sequence of setting it up. >> And it well and it's also filmed in such a way as to communicate to the player that uh-oh, this guy's being a bit shifty. Or maybe that was the cut scene beforehand where he like looks he's like looking around to make sure no one's watching. Guilty Spark. >> All right. Well, that that's uh later. This is before that. This is Oh, this is theoretic. >> Why? Why are you playing the music? What are you doing? >> Because there's a halo. >> He is aed by pissed giantist. >> Never been better. >> You can't of information. >> Piss giantist. >> So much so fast. >> It's an iMac wallpaper. >> It's me. >> Every frame of wallpaper. So, what sort of weapon is it? >> What are you talking about? >> Let's stay focused. Halo, how do we use it against the Covenant? >> This ring isn't a cudil, you barbarian. It's something else. >> Something much more. >> There's no selling these lines, so it just sounds confrontational compared to how it originally was. >> The Covenant were right. This ring. It's Warrunner. >> Give me a second. >> Why shouldn't I keep it? >> After all, it's my Halo game. Well, what's funny is uh I I believe I there was a developers commentary with um with Jason Jones, uh Joe Stton, and Mario Dole where they they talked about how at some point Cortana was going to go mad with power when she got connected to to uh to to Halo. And um I think the question was like why did it get cut? And then I think Jason Jones said because it would have been too awesome. Which is very amusing to me cuz then cuz of course it's like yeah that was probably not a good idea and then and then 343 went and did it. They actually made her go mad with power. >> Nailed it. >> That's the funniest part of Infinite is they offscreen Cortana. >> Yep. >> The Forerunners built this place what they called a fortress world in order to >> Wait. Oh, here we are. >> No, that can't be. Oh, those covenant fools. >> That is not that is not the covenant fools. Like >> it's like uh No, it's actually a lot worse than that right now. I I think there's a certain tone that you should be conveying here. >> They must have known a curfew. >> Slow down. You're losing me. >> The Covenant found something buried in this ring. Something horrible. And now they're afraid. Something buried where? >> The captain. We've got to stop the captain. >> Keys? What are we? >> Weapons cash he's looking for. It's not really We can't let him get inside. >> I don't understand. >> There's no time. Get out of here. Find keys. Not him. >> Before it's too late. >> Yeah. Wow. You're really selling it with your, you know, you're really selling it before it's too late with your arms just sort of dangling there by your sides, you know, a little bit like ah >> Yeah. You know, if you got time, go, you know, go and sort that out. Compared to in the original where she's frantically yelling at you, waving her arms around, you got to go now. Go find Keys. Stop him. >> It's so funny that that rudimentary animation from the original game is far more expressive than like what is presumably motion capture. >> Yeah. >> But instead, it's just like, you know, if you got time, go and find keys. But, you know, it's not a huge rust >> or anything. Listen, the person watching this is a Halo fan who already knows the stakes of this cut scene. So why do they need the emotionality? >> Yeah. >> Nobody who's not already a Halo fan is playing this. >> Yeah. >> Well, nobody is playing this. >> No, not right now. Anyway, which uh and then uh it was mentioned before, but it's worth seeing it uh if uh once it plays. The the opening for 343 Guilty Spark. They ruined it. >> Yeah. Where were the grunts? Where are the grunts running away? >> Cowards. But what? >> Not in the way you think. >> What I want to know is who's the co-pilot in this scene. >> I don't know. >> I think this is the only time he shows up. >> But like I just I can't believe they got that one so wrong. It's so effective that the first thing you see on this level is the grunts running away from something that off screen. >> Guess it would be E even if uh Chief doesn't register it, like it's important that that the audience registers that like the the Covenant's running away from something in here. Okay. And now Chief's going in here and he's probably going to run into something that he doesn't like and the Covenant doesn't like either. That's why they're running away like they >> Yeah. [ __ ] it up. >> You can Yeah, you can interpret it that way or you can interpret it like, "Oh, look, that's who we're looking for." or like it it's nice because there's multiple ways that you can feel it, but something's off clearly. >> Yeah. >> Do Do you guys think there's a hammer per F5 fo thumb hammer? Do you think that's how it works? They're all siblings. >> That was over 12 hours ago. When you locate Captain Key, use radio in and I'll come pick you up. at which then uh this cutscene >> quite an important one. >> I actually don't mind this cut scene. Maybe it's a hot take. I don't know if you guys agree, but this is this is one of the highlights for me. I thought they did considering how [ __ ] everything else is, I thought they did a shockingly good job on this. >> Yes, that's a good way to put it. >> I have one major gripe from memory. I think I know what you're going to say. I think it's notable as well the contrast between the lighting in this cutscene versus the level itself cuz this is like dark and ambient and spooky with like source lighting that makes sense >> whereas the original is again as we've been into the spotlight not the original the level >> the cutscene lighting doesn't match the original nor does it match when you're in game. Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. >> That's that is my major gripe, by the way. >> Especially when Well, I think it's I think it's significant for the whole cut scene that the lighting's not right. And I I even >> I have issue with um with Keys when he turns up in the recording. You can barely [ __ ] see them cuz the lighting's so [ __ ] >> Lighting is >> I thought you were going to mention that the uh the elite corpses disappear. >> Well, doesn't everything disappear? basically like loads of [ __ ] isn't where it's supposed to be. Yeah. >> By the way, no headshake. They make a different choice. A worse choice. >> No headshake. Very rude. >> I'm I'm shaking my head right now. What do you mean? >> Uh which by the way already like I way prefer the uh the the green hue >> and the less >> clear visual that is present in the original. This one is like they put the little lines there, but this is like high def crystal clear. >> Playing it. How are they going to recognize it? They don't play with the old technology to know what a CRT filter means. >> Yeah, they'll think their computer's broken. >> But I way prefer the green hue uh instead of the actual just proper lighting. And if you be like, "Yeah, but it's the future. The camera should be better." It's like, "Well, then why' they even put any little stuff on there at all? Why they put any >> body cam?" So, I mean, it has an excuse to be [ __ ] Isn't it an Aliens reference? I would have thought so because a lot of this is right. >> Yeah. A lot a bunch there's a bunch of aliens in this. >> Specifically the the body cams. Isn't that like a >> Yeah, they're in aliens. Yeah. >> The colonial marines. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Why do we always have to listen to this old stuff? S >> watch your mouth. This stuff is your history. It should >> I'm glad they kept the music. I was worried they were going to get rid of it. Hey, do >> anything if they had Taylor Swift or something, it would have been better. >> No, it it needs, >> sorry, I'm autistic about this. It needs to be rock so that you can connect the uh motifs of the soundtrack where you understand like this is the human music. This is the 4Runner music. Hm. There's some human elements to the 4Runner music. It's almost like there's a connection between the Forerunners and humans. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Does the Covenant want to wipe out this particular part of my history? That's fine by me. >> Yeah, better it than us. >> You ask real nice next time you see him, Vicente. I'm sure they'll be happy to oblige. >> Now, Z looks clear. I'M BRINGING US DOWN. >> OH, YEAH. Someone in chat pointed out the audio is super scratchy, but the video is like higher definition. That's a weird mismatch, too, >> because it's the it's the reverse. Audio is easier to compress as data than video, >> right? >> Yep. >> Go, go, go. I'm sorry for pausing here, but like I I like I I like that the way the fast forwarding was handled here. Um, you could have done some cheap ass like scrubbing effect >> where it like skips across a bunch of frames. I kind of I like how it holds on the last frame that we've seen >> and then it just skips ahead skips ahead to the the active scene like we don't see anything in between >> like there's a simple and elegant way that they affected that that they applied it and uh I think it works. Take those. Move it up. Okay, let's move. Wait here for the captain and his squad. Then get your ass inside. Sir. >> Right. Let's get this door open. >> I'll try, sir, but it looks like these Covenant work pretty hard to lock it down. >> Just do it, Merine. >> Yes, sir. Reassuring pat on the shoulder. >> You better have a look at this, Sarge. >> What you got? >> Covenant. Lots of them. Except they're all dead. >> Yeah, the voice acting gets pretty questionable in this next bit. I remember. >> I mean, look at it. Something scrambled the insides. >> What's that? Plasma scoring. >> Yeah. I don't know. Maybe there was an >> struck by how [ __ ] dark it is. >> What do we have, Sergeant? >> Yep. >> Look at that [ __ ] >> Much darker than in the game itself. >> The keys is like a jump scare at this point. It's like, wait, what? >> Well, so there's there's one aspect where um these scenes happen in different places. The the finding the dead elite that actually happens in like one of the prior rooms. It doesn't happen in this room. The other thing is why isn't there a soldier who's holding his flashlight on the elite so they can see it? Because how the [ __ ] does anybody see anything in here? >> And they're all they're all kind of moving as though the room is lit >> and behaving as though it's lit. >> It was probably animated to be lit. And then they decided like actually it'd be scarier if it was dark. It would cover up all our mistakes. >> Looks like a Covenant patrol. Badass elite units. All KIA. >> Real pretty friend of yours >> now. We just met. >> Who is he calling pretty? feeling about this. >> Boy, you always got a bad feeling about S. >> Nobody touched me. Nothing. >> What the >> Captain S? Can you hear me? >> What's going on, soldier? >> We've got contact them, but they're not coming. We're just staring through them. What the [ __ ] No. >> Corporal, do you copy? Over. >> Mendoza, get your ass back up to second squad's position and find out what the hell is going on. But >> I don't have time for your lip, soldier. I gave you an order. >> But Sarge, listen. >> What is that? >> Where's that coming from? Mendoza. >> Everywhere. I DON'T ABOVE YOU. >> GET OUT. >> LET HIM HAVE IT. >> Get out. GET IT OUT. >> HOLD STILL. Hold still. >> GOD DAMN IT. SHE CAN SPY A WEAPON. SERGEANT, we're surrounded. >> Yeah. I'm not really buying that they're in a firefight here. >> Nope. >> Too many >> SGE. There's too many. Yeah, it doesn't. >> I'm overwhelming >> cuz you can't see them. I wonder if the infection forms just looked shitty and I needed to make it black for that. >> Chickens. >> Yeah, something else cannot parse it. >> Or maybe Johnson thought these were chickens. And there's >> there's no answer as to how Johnson got out of that situation. So, it's like it's weird that they don't answer that question if they're going to make him if that's the real Sergeant Johnson. >> I don't like it. I don't like it. We get rid of the headshake and do that instead. I don't like it. Feels like he's got a bit of a problem with his his temper here. You know, >> he is a more emotional character now. >> He's squeezing the card too hard. Like, >> yeah, >> I think it's supposed to indicate like, oh, my my my comrades. Like, I've got to squeeze this thing to indicate about them, but >> not lamenting it, but it's more like I'm I'm angry about it. >> I'm going to get revenge. I'm going to kill these [ __ ] >> I'm going to get revenge on these things. I don't even know what they are at this point. >> Like, I don't even know what they are. They're not They're not the coveted. So, yeah. I don't like it. And then suddenly it becomes much brighter in the actual >> Unfortunately, that's still going to be here. But yes, there is a massive contrast. It's so dumb. >> Now there's a >> the way the way he grabs he swiftly grabs his shotgun. I liked, but then like you also you throw in also the the fact that he squeezed the the data card. It's just like okay, I feel like you're you might destroy it and also like well I get I don't know if it matters that you preserve it. The point is that he is destroying it cuz he's so >> mad crunching sound >> which is what I don't like compared to just the shake of the head. >> Do you think that was indicated through sound design that he was trying to destroy it? >> Yeah, we should relist to it. >> That I think that's the that is the that is the point of it. Hold on. >> Okay. Well, I don't I don't like that if that's the case. Yeah, >> he destroyed it. >> I I get what you're saying. Like that sound is too much for just a closing of the fist. It sounds like something's breaking >> good at it because he's mad. Whereas Yeah, in the original he just he throws it away. Sorry. Yeah. Which uh >> I I don't understand the utility of destroying the evidence of like mad maybe inconsequential ultimately like okay maybe maybe it's just like his anger is just so severe that they 343 Halo Studios felt like they needed that to come through to the degree where it's like he has to crush the the medium in which this the footage is stored because he's so mad. I feel like that's really stupid, but may maybe that is maybe they are stupid enough to entertain that idea. >> That's what it is. He's mad. Yeah, he's mad rather rather than sad. He's mad. Which uh then this by the way here this halo. It will of course consume all available hosts in this galaxy who are naturally. >> Why? Let's teleport outside of the library, my man, so that I can show you where it is that we're going. Yeah, we can't have this conversation on top of the pylon at the end of 343 Guilty Spark or at the start of the library. We need to have it outside >> outside in the cold. >> I'm not in a second location. >> Someone had developed this environment and they they wanted to use it in a cinematic because it doesn't show up again. >> No, >> this is what it looks like in um in Halo 2. This looks similar to what the library looks like in Halo 2. Is isn't there some kind of flood related environmental reason why it's all snowy and everything in Halo 2? >> Well, the thing is in the original I that's the thing in the original you don't see the outside. So like I don't necessarily know what the outside of the library looks like in the original. In two it's uh snowy, but that's two. That's a different Halo. You know what I mean? >> Halo 2 is completely different. It's a completely different biome. >> That's right. The control room. Well, it's just cuz Yeah. Like you're not necessarily going to the same kind. They're different. They're different structures. They're not identical. >> Yeah. >> Well, because Frankie, when when you're saying a different Halo, you mean actually a different Halo ring, right? Not a different Halo. >> I'm talking about I'm talking about in in Halo 2 when they're on Delta Halo, this is kind of what the library looks like, but the control room Yeah. The control room is not in the snowy area like it is on um on the original Halo. >> Like, it's just different, you know? But but I I I just don't see the point in showing me where the library is. >> Yeah. It's a nostalgic look. I recognize that thing. >> Yeah. >> Especially because you're then going to go into the library itself and have, you know, a fairly long, from what I remember, walking sequence before you encounter enemies in which like that's obviously where dialogue should be. >> You don't want to break the pace of the game up, but they've decided to chuck it in here instead. And there's there's a few little lines that that Guildy Spark says as well, which I don't remember from being in the original Halo, which almost give the game away too easily. It's like by the time you actually get to the revelation, he's kind of already told you what the revelation's going to be. And it's a bit weird that Chief doesn't pick up on it. >> The first time I played it, the remake specifically. >> That's I mean, one of the cool things about the original game is that while you're playing the level, in part because you're distracted by fighting these guys, he just says things that don't really make sense. >> Y >> um but they make sense from his perspective because of who he thinks you are. But he'll just say things like, "Oh, you brought like really ineffective weapons. That's weird." And it's like, "Well, it's not I don't you know, it's like I don't know what these are." Like, we didn't we weren't expecting this. But of course, from his perspective is like, "Yeah, you know," which then um cuz cuz there's there's two more big cuts scenes uh from the original that are worth talking about. And I guess we'll just tackle them. Well, two and a half, I guess. There's this one, the true betrayals, which I am I am blown away. I am stunned by some of the choices that they made in this cut scene. >> That's the one that just blew my mind as to how bad it was. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> All the tests inclusive. >> Is something wrong? >> No, nothing. >> Splendid. Shall we? Hilty Spark has had a lot of direction changes to the way he sounds where somehow it's the same actor but he sounds like a completely different person. >> Yeah, yeah, definitely. >> I I find it incredible that they even butchered it's it's it's weirdly one of my favorite shots in the original game is just the big wide shot as uh as Chief walks up to the the like the control panel while uh Guilty Spark is humming a little song. It's a very cool shot and we didn't really get an equivalent of that here >> because they're lame. >> Unfortunately, my usefulness to this particular endeavor has come to an end. Protocol does not allow units with my classification to perform a task as important as the reunification of the index with the core. >> What the [ __ ] is that? What was that >> little bit here? He thinks he's looking at someone else and gets confused. >> That's the devs being like, "Hey, remember this guy's sus." >> He's being a little sneaky boy. >> Reserve for you. Odd. That wasn't supposed to happen. >> Oh, really? >> It's worse already. [ __ ] off. >> Yeah. >> Cortana. >> What was that? >> Cortana. >> That is [ __ ] >> Where is your manager, Mr. Chief? 12 hours I've been stuck in here watching you cozy up to that thing while it sharpens the knife to slit our throats. >> Oh yeah, we don't have the dynamism of the original delivery there. >> It's just very flat. >> Throw your arms around flail. >> The delivery feels accentuated and flat in the wrong spot. Whereas in the original the delivery it felt more on point. >> Yep. Well, just sort of really making the point that like Guilty Spark is a schemer. He is scheming against you. >> You know, this is what he wants. >> Hold on. He's a friend. >> Oh, I didn't realize he's your pal. Is he your chum? >> You [ __ ] idiot. >> Like, how do you think the player is going to feel when they're playing as in first person as the super awesome Master Chief and they're just being [ __ ] The mom is nagging them about not taking the trash out. >> Oh, really? >> That's That hurts. >> Yeah. >> Do you have any idea what that bastard almost made you do? >> That motion capture for her face is so bad to the point that I almost think it's not even motion capture. I think it's animated. >> You might That might be the case. Yeah. But I mean, >> why why >> Yes. >> The the character being emotional. I'll take because she's just like she like she's been the implication by the dialogue is that she's been suppressed for 12 hours watching things happen and then all of a sudden now she's out and she's able to express herself but still >> the original takes >> in the first game where like they were they were in the right ways. >> Yeah. >> Well, yeah, cuz she's obviously emotional in the original cut scenes, but the problem is it's like Yeah, you've you've you've gotten them all wrong. you you you've like you misunderstood essentially the emotions that are meant to be conveyed like at any given moment and there's a generally sort of awkward like >> condesc it's it's like the wrong kind it's the it's the cringe self-aware almost condescension rather than like the you actually [ __ ] up and you need to listen to me right now >> right >> it's just yeah and then >> activate Halo's defenses and destroy the flood which is why we brought the index to the control even here. Sorry for pausing here. I hope that's okay. But like the chief delivery here, >> chief's delivery here as well where it's like in the original he delivered this in such a flat way where he's just reiterating the objectives where it's just like here's what we're supposed to do as if the implication is Cortana, what is your input on this? Whereas here it feels like it's like condescending where it's like this is what we were supposed to do. We were supposed to do this and then we were yeah do that. >> His mom is talking back to him and he's upset about it. >> The in the original he's like a little bit unsure himself cuz he's like yes we're activating Halo to wipe out you know the flood which is why we brought the index to the control center. It's kind of like that sort of tone whereas it like where where naturally the fact that Cortana is so mad at him is making him question immediately whether or not he's got things right cuz why would she be so angry and and and upset like if uh >> if there wasn't any reason for it, you know, it it all it cuz he cuz you know we we already have it up to this point that he's not quite fully convinced of everything that's going on. It's the whole reason why he's looking around when he gets teleported in. Like, is something wrong? No, nothing. It's like because he's >> That's exactly it. I think when he reiterates the objectives, it's like in a he he does so in a way where it's just like, have I got something wrong here? Like, this is what we were supposed to do. >> Like, just clarify where I'm going wrong here. >> Now, it's just like we're going to do this and this and this. So, this is why I'm right. Like, this is this is like this is like the implication of it of the tone of it. Mhm. >> Why is it so slow? >> You mean this? >> That [ __ ] eyebrow ra. >> Once I saw the germa comparison, I couldn't take her seriously anymore. It was [ __ ] crazy. >> Acceptable. >> And yet, >> excuse me, where's my saw off? >> Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah. I mean the the sought off thing is >> remnant of that a line like that is written with I think a British sensibility like there's like you don't hear the word sod in any other situation I feel like >> no that's that's true but too bad that's what she said I was going to say what's funny is equivalent >> and yet does not match that energy say [ __ ] off like just blow your one curse word like >> well this that but I would argue You should be able to recognize when remaking something like this that that's a line you're like, "Oh, we got to keep that one cuz everyone remembers it. Like it's a line that's a part of this experience now. Even if it were placed for whatever reason that maybe doesn't match, you keep this applies to like so many different remakes where they they just take lines away cuz they're like, "Nah, I'm not doing that anymore." Um, I think, you know, Resident Evil remake, Resident Evil 4 remake, sorry, had this problem where it kept removing a bunch of [ __ ] and it's just like, "Sorry, but you're going to have to own the fact that people are coming to Resident Evil 4 with expectations of Resident Evil 4 instead of you being like, yeah, but we want to remove the embarrassing stuff." And it's like, "What are you doing? People love this." I think also like another problem with this is that Cortana I feel like she's relishing too much >> with having the the sudden like being having the favorable position in the power imbalance here like cuz she she's >> No, you're right. You're totally right. >> She's been suppressed for all this time and now she has the power and she's taking too much glee in it. I I feel is an issue. >> I'd say the tone in the original is like is is essentially it is confrontational, but it's it's like I have like I I've won here. Like you can't threaten me. I've like I have what we need. Like I'm the you know I'm I'm the obstacle in your path compared to like she almost seems thrilled by it. I was like, "No, that's not trying to set up a future dementia, sorry, dementia metaphor with Halo 4." And so they're adding to the emotionality of her so that it makes sense when Halo 4 comes around. And they're like, "Oh, that's why she's crazy. >> Just wait till 4, bro. It'll all make sense." >> Just wait until we remake Halo 2 and three, so then it'll all work. >> Well, I think it's safe to say that that isn't going to happen now, but What do you >> What were you about to say? >> Well, what are you guys' perspective on the likelihood of getting a Halo 2 remake? >> I don't know. >> Under the previous leadership, uh, absolutely it would have happened because they liked to waste money. The current leadership is being a bit tighter with the budget, and I just don't think like they might take a stab at it, but they're going to be super hands-on with it. Well, didn't they spend $150 million on this game and it's currently got about 3,000 people playing it? >> It's never Listen, they allegedly spent half a billion dollars on Halo Infinite and that that failure still didn't shut them down. >> There's a few issues with this. I feel like I mean like for one, do they think they're seriously going to contend with the work that's already been done on the cut scenes by Blur? That's one thing. >> Yeah. >> And then also like I don't think they're green lit for this. I don't think they have anything on their plate in terms of active projects. >> Yes, right now there is seemingly nothing in development, which is hilarious. >> And well, in contrast with the [ __ ] I don't know if I'm spoiling anything here, but the legendary ending where he's just basically saying, "We'll see you in the sequels." >> Yeah. >> Like it's like you automatically you you got this smug sense of like, "Oh yeah, we got this, dude. We're going to do the second one and you're going to love it." Like we did such a good job with this one. wait to see what we do with the sequels. Like that's basically what they're implying, I think. And it's just like, come on. >> Yeah, they wrote that. They definitely wrote that line when Phil Spencer was still in charge, >> right? >> Yep. >> You sure that's a good idea? >> How How dare you? I'll >> do what? I have the index. You can just float and sputter. >> Enough. >> That That one there. That's the one that gets me. You can just float and sputter is the original there. It's like, yeah, you can float and sputter. >> Yep. >> Also, no chief putting his hands up between them. We just get rid of that. >> Yeah, we lost that, too. >> Yeah. Yeah, of course we did. >> Well, I think that original beat lasted a hair too long, but you could have just like cut that down by like a second or like maybe a half a second. Um, >> that can't be said in the case of this cuz they extend everything dramatically. >> Cut here. We add >> No, >> that's right. >> Halo's defenses. We can wipe them out. >> You have no idea how this ring works, do you? >> Why the Forerunners built it? Halo doesn't kill flood. It kills their food. >> Humans, whatever. >> Spark said that at the start of the library. >> Edible. >> You're all equal. You're all equally edible. rather than we >> some noteworthy change and they'd be like, "Yeah, but I mean she can't be eaten by the flood." It's like, "Oh, I think you misunderstand the whole point of we is that she includes herself as part of humanity, not separate from it." Well, I think there's an interesting thing there because the the the model is based off of Hoy as a person. like there like I I don't know what exactly what position to take on this like because I know what you're saying. >> I think it fits as a rewrite with the idea that she's like in her egotistical mode right now where again they're probably [ __ ] foreshadowing like villain Cortana >> where it's like she sees herself as something different and it's because she's in this position of power right now and it's like see we're setting up Halo 5. >> We're setting up Cortana. >> Yeah. >> It's not No, no, no, no. It's not It's not you. It's we. Obviously. We >> Sorry. Did you just say Hitler Cortana? >> Yes. >> Okay. You You got to You've got to understand how strange that sounds to someone who has not played past like >> you got to stop selling him on playing Halo 5. >> Yeah. I will say, by the way, the um I know less about this obviously, but when I was in the prequel missions chat, we're talking about how there's like tanks or whatever that relate to foreshadowing for the future of this these games. So, they're definitely doing it, right? Like they they are treating this game as a remake, but that fits in. I think that's Yes, cuz a particularly funny one for the prequels that was pointed out when I was playing is that it looks like on the um on the the genetic experiments that they're doing, the genetic experiments are to make it so that the elites and the jackals and stuff that are in Halo 4 and 5 fit into cannon. They the reason why they look different is not the change in art direction, but genetic experiments, which of course doesn't make any sense because the Arbiter also has the weird looking mandibles as well. >> It's a very Star Trek approach to closing that plot hole. >> It's hilarious. >> Just a It's I think they intended it as a funny reference and didn't realize there's so many people that hate Halo 4 that like would find it funny that Juel Mama is currently sitting in a tank like a Snoke clone. Well, but not just that that people would find it funny, but there would be people making Halo lore videos saying like so actually in the in the on the the Triumph of tolerance, we see that uh you know, like they would just incorporate it in like as actual real cannon and then they'd start telling you that you're a casual because you didn't realize that if you >> you're a [ __ ] tourist for not playing the Halo remake prequel missions and studying Dr. Tanks. This reminds me of um Resident Evil to an extent. Not not as bad, but like with the remake branch that they often pick and choose continuity from their remake, like they're setting up the future versus they're remaking the games they're actually paying homage to. You're like, h >> it makes it hard to parse being a fan where it's like you have all these conflicting sources and you're supposed to know all of them but selectively pick and choose which ones are true. Like a big one is a lot of people were citing that the girl boss character her hatred of the Master Chief is justified because ODSTs famously hate Spartans. And it's like >> famous that's a reference to a book that this game didn't canonize because this game pretends that the flood didn't happen anyways. So like why are we picking and choosing what's canon? Oh, and also >> you can point to that book, but at the end of the day, when I play Halo 2 and Halo 3 and Halo Reach and I'm a Spartan going on missions with them, they don't say, "Hey, but [ __ ] you, Noble Six." Or, "Yeah, you know what? [ __ ] you, chief. We got to work together before >> No, no. There's a single line in Halo Reach where the Bullfrogs challenge you, and that's that's supposed to signal that the ODSTs have rivalry >> where they hate Spartans." >> Yep. I have an entire video about why that's uh cope. >> You're just making me think about that stupid [ __ ] line from Secret Invasion where they completely rewrite history and then they say don't rewrite history by trying to counter it. >> Like Jesus, >> the only way to stop the flood is to starve them to death. >> And that's exactly what Halo is designed to do. Wipe the galaxy clean of all sentient life. You don't believe me? Ask him. >> Is it true? >> Oh, no. That that chief line delivery is so bad because originally he says, "Is it true?" >> Whereas like he just sounds like he sounds like the old man that Steve DS is. And that's sad. But like, >> yeah, >> you know, I I can't fault Steve DS for aging 25 years since. >> Okay. Damn it, Steve. You failed us. How could you do this? >> But like, you just so bad. >> You nailed the original delivery there. It's more grave. >> Like it's like it is it true? Like >> I'm not even doing it justice there, but like the way they do it, >> it feels more superficial than it's supposed to be. >> Yeah. >> I got to tell you, I was terrified of whether or not they were going to change any of these lines that Guilty Spark has. They don't, but they change the animation and the delivery in ways that compromises the original meaning and intention behind them. But I was I was so terrified that they were going to the 4Runner humans thing. >> Yes. Yes. I was terrified that >> that was that was something I had heard too. The thing is they don't have to change that because the way that they fixed that in canon was by making Guilty Spark a former human. >> What? There is a book that establishes that Guilty Spark was a human who got digitized. And that's why he says that that like our lost history. That's why he says that because he's human. That was their band-aid fix to that little >> so that they could do the whole forerunners aren't actually humans. He just forgot to mention it. >> Just forgot to do >> this is the equivalent of catching someone in your library who's scribbling in all the books and you just want to [ __ ] kill them. Yes. >> Technically, this installation's pulse has a maximum effective radius of 25,000 light years. But once the others follow suit, this galaxy will be quite devoid of life. Or at least any lab with sufficient biomass to sustain the fun. >> But you already knew that. >> I mean >> I mean, >> how couldn't you? >> How couldn't you? Yeah. No, I'm evil. >> Terrible delivery. left out that little detail. Did he >> left out that little detail? >> Oh, wow. That's You're pretty Yeah. >> We have followed outbreak containment procedure to the nutter. You were with me each step with me every step of the way. Like every [ __ ] line is read wrong. >> This one This is the one that stands out to me the most. >> Why would you hesitate to do what you've already done? >> He like, >> he's he's gone off to wonder why th this is the case. He's like he's he's he's gone off to ponder why that's the case rather than the way that it's it it plays originally, which is he's like asking you almost point blank like why would you hesitate to do something that we've already done before as opposed to >> oh jeez why are you hesitating to do what we've already done? Huh? >> Yeah, it's a rhetorical question in the original. Here it's that he's actually confused. >> He's genuinely confused. Like it's it's how how how it's way better that as well that he's staring him just point blank in the face while while talking to him and asking him all of these things instead of >> animated like a Pixar scene like the the characters like you would imagine if he has shoulders they're drooped and he's very confused right now. >> Exactly. >> We need to go. >> Well, this this is something I'll actually credit to the way that it's been done here. I can't remember exactly how it was executed in the original game. It's been a few years since I played that. But like the way like 343 stares right into the camera when he's saying like you already knew that, right? As if he's like he's also talking to the audience like they're humans and the humans were forerunner. So it's like he's >> talking to the forerunner broadly. Like why? >> Like he doesn't understand like what? >> But that's not true anymore. It's not canon anymore. Halo 4. >> No. Well, they're they're they're trying to they're dialing back on that, right? They're they're trying to erase what's going on. >> That's the thing. They've changed it completely because yeah, obviously the thing is at this point you don't get any explicit confirmation that humans are forerrunners. That's something that was going to be in Halo 2, but then they, you know, wasn't in there. But then in Halo 3, I mean, Guilty Spark just says it outright. But the whole point of all of these lines is that it is all very, he is saying really strange things. He's talking to Chief as if like Chief has a total understanding of what's going on here. But the reason why is because it's like yeah, from his perspective, a reclaimer is not a different species of people that have been given the mantle of responsibility to control the universe or [ __ ] whatever. It is >> finder sexually attractive and have a predestination to create AI and armor systems all according to Halo 4. >> Yeah. Like it's it's not about that. And it's like, "Oh, hey, you're back. Um, hey, like we we Yeah, we got some problems to sort out. Oh, that's weird. You brought weird weapons. Oh, well, anyway, we'll make short work of it." And of course, this is meant to tie into other things that you would be noticing that are kind of made more explicit, which is you can use all of this for 4Runner technology, and the Covenant can't they can't like activate Halo. That's something that's made very clear in Halo 2 and Halo 3. Well, Matt actually steps on the uh that scene earlier in in Halo the mission where the original game has a cut scene for activating the bridge and the new game treats it very casually even though it is actually pretty significant. >> Yeah, >> it's actually kind of a worthwhile thing to show. Yes, the recla he is reclaiming the forerunner >> taking the mantle of responsibility. >> Ah yes, that's right. Yes. As opposed to reclaiming Halo. Halo 4 has a plot point in which Master Chief is the [ __ ] chosen one of the Forerunners to inherit all of this stuff so that he can fist fight an Iron Man vampire guy on his ass. >> Stop selling me on this game, Patricia. What are you doing? >> I am selling you on it. >> The Prometheians that you fight, the robots, they're actually humans. Ancient humans that got turned into >> holes inside their masks. >> Yeah. And and it was because he was trying to use what was the thing called? the big device that he the big laser. What was it called? >> The composer. >> Yes, the composer. >> Blow up Phoenix, Arizona. >> That's right. New Phoenix or something. Yeah. >> No, it's it's um the point. Look. All right. I love >> the sunny delight laser, but sure. Composer. Let's go with it. >> I love the original like just this as an element that you that you've been playing the game and that there's a lot to sort of be read into. And then Guilty Spark says a whole bunch of things that just don't make much sense at all. Um, but of course it it makes a lot more sense when you realize exactly what his perspective is. It's super cool. It's really very it's it it's it's it's dare I say subtle. Um, but whoops. That was >> we need to pay off future games because a bunch of people ass blasted us on YouTube making fun of the fact that we reconed the 4Runner human thing. >> Yeah. Last time you asked me if it were my choice, would I do it? I haven't had considerable time to >> They're just overegging how evil he is with the way this is filmed. >> Yeah. >> Well, again, and also I I enjoy how much less dynamic it is cuz again, this is yet another instance where we have a big 360 shot. We cut from behind Chief as he sees all of the Sentinels pop up. He even has a little bit of a fright when he sees it >> and then, you know, turns around, grabs Cortana. We do the big sweeping shot to then face him as he's essentially staring down this threat, but instead it's like, "No, let's have it be much more boring." >> Mhm. >> Answer is not changed. >> I also just hate the line delivery. Last time you asked me if it were my choice, would I do it? He doesn't say it like that anymore. He says it like a [ __ ] villain. >> Yep. Cuz again, it's it's a total >> choice. We must activate the ring. >> Get >> Yeah. And and they're just like that. We we must activate the ring as opposed to like we have no choice. We must activate the ring. >> We must activate the ring. It's just matter of fact for guilty spark that he's about to commit genocide. Like >> yeah relationship with it. >> Yeah. >> But the temptation to overhumanize AI characters or robot characters is is quite common. They seem to think that the more human you make them in inflection, the more relatable they are. The more you can like parody human emotions, the more unsettling the character is. When the actually unsettling thing about him is precisely that he has no real emotional attachment to the thing that he's doing. It's why he's able to do the job that he does. >> Lazy hack writers. Well, yeah. How they've developed though is um is is like that actually he's very he just really really really wants a ring that he controls is like what sort of emerges after you know that the ring gets destroyed and then he's kind of left without any clear purpose in Halo 2. And then in Halo 3 when it's like oh the the ark is constructing a new Halo. Well that's just fantastic. And then of course when threatened with the prospect of the of the Halo ring getting destroyed again, that's when he finally loses his [ __ ] Which of course is a notable turn at that point cuz it's like the first time that you see him shoot a laser out of his face because of how mad he is. But anyway, oh well. >> Us out of here. >> If you are unwilling to help, I will simply find another. Still, I must have the index. Give your construct to me or I will be forced to take >> What was that? >> I was half expecting his little eye to go bright red in this moment and then the entire game to go red as well. >> No, to defend this. I think they're trying to say he's not like he's like an antagonist of some kind. Like he's I think they're trying to get across that he's not your friend. And I don't know how I would get that otherwise. >> Yep. >> I I don't even understand how you came to that conclusion. I'm still confused. >> It was really the >> music, the lighting, the expressions. It was really >> his eyes red. >> Also, I don't know if you got it, but they email you while you play this to say he's evil at this point. So, they don't want you to miss it. You know, >> I had my notifications off it. >> That's not going to happen. >> So, be it. >> Dispose of the rest. Wow, that was that was Oh, wow. >> Yeah, I love how easy that next section of game is as well compared to original where they're like you're supposed to find those at least a little bit difficult to kill, but as soon as you get one of their guns, you can take them out in like 0.5 seconds. I was out of there so [ __ ] quickly. >> You can pick up. >> Yeah, they're in the game and they're super overpowered as well. Oh yeah, we didn't mention that one cuz the needle rifle. >> Yeah. >> Is crazy powerful. >> The single beam has ever been probably. >> Yeah. More so than even in Halo 2. I felt it was super powerful. >> Melts the [ __ ] out of the Covenant. They can't do anything against it. >> Which sentinels are just pathetic. >> Yep. >> Like they drop a weapon that they're weak against because I am very smart. It's pretty OP against every enemy type. Yeah. The >> Yeah. which then uh brings us to the last two cutscenes from the uh from the campaign itself before we take a look at a handful of the uh the prequel ones. So >> excited. I want to see the girl boss. >> This is the the the the end of the game, the last cut scene. So, they've changed the ship layout, >> which again I don't understand because if we're standardizing this with like where first strike is going to go as implied by >> the prequel missions, why is how are seven people supposed to invade? >> This is so [ __ ] dumb. When I saw this, I was like, "So, he's dead. He's [ __ ] There's nothing. There's a one hit experience with this enemy the entire game. They just make it a normal [ __ ] >> one [ __ ] hit kill enemy on heroic. You're done. It's over. Don't do anything, chief. >> Oh no. Oh, and his gun his shot, dude. This [ __ ] pathetic [ __ ] >> Oh jeez. It fell through the the chair. Oh god, it's between the the seats. My gun is between the seats. >> I dropped my phone. >> Oh no. Oh no. >> So stupid. Yeah, >> thank you. Keys, >> I guess. >> Oh my god, he used the Magnum from the beginning. >> The iconic [ __ ] Magnum. The thing about this, of course, the first question I was like, "Oh, the Magnum can't do that. Can't kill him one [ __ ] shot." >> A normal combat form that he's wrestling with and then he one-shots it because the Magnum can oneshot the combat forms. >> Oh, right. Well, yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. It makes no sense to put a tank there. Like why did they do this just like the other two the other two that are right next to the ship at this present moment, they're going to jump up and we're going to see that he's going to struggle more and the pistol won't do what it's supposed to do cuz they're right there. So they they're going to have to do that. >> Even the the placement of the assault rifle at the beginning, I mean, he's supposed to be able to magnetically lock his gun to the the rear of his his torso armor. Like the fact that he's just like like setting it aside >> just so he can fumble with it between the seat cushions. >> It is unacceptable to have his primary iconic [ __ ] weapon slip between the sofa cushions. That's just so stupid. >> Oops. >> Oh, off he go. Oh, >> let me Where did they go? >> They just disappeared. >> They're just standing there. They're just standing. General lack of urgency, please note. >> The most dynamic shot in the game when they actually pan the camera. >> Yeah. And of course, you might have noticed it's like, wait a minute, where's where's Sergeant Johnson? Don't you worry. We'll find out where he is soon enough. >> Well, I like the PNG explosion. >> Why? Why actually explode when you can just super cause a [ __ ] explosion over everything? >> Are they watching it? Wait, hang on. This has to be AI because now they're looking at the explosion that they were flying away. >> Looking at the explosion, they're flying away from it and you can see the lighting. It's just this horrible static shot of the two of them just staring vacantly forward. >> This next bit was the only time in the entire game I thought like this this is the sort of mistake AI would make. It's not only it's this, but it's also the way the ray itself explodes. to say, I still think it's dumb [ __ ] humans, but I can understand this mistake. >> For the record, like for just for Patrician, I don't know how invested you are in any [ __ ] superhero movies, but Superman got made fun of cuz there's a shot where he's like flying in front of the sun, moves away from it, and then into another sun on Earth. And it's like, nice. And a lot of people were like, uh, excuse me, we don't need realism for suns. We're doing Superman. Okay. Like people loved it, defended it. Just like, um, >> right? >> And then of course if someone said like, oh, it's AI. is like, "No, I think humans are stupid." >> Humans can [ __ ] that [ __ ] up in those ways. >> Well, I was about to say they not only [ __ ] up, but like intentionally, like if you said to them, "There's two suns, bro." And he's like, "Yeah, people won't notice." They'll love it. They love the light sources. They'll love it. Trust me. >> Yeah. That's what the moon is during the day. >> Yeah. >> Look at this shot. >> I swear that reflection in his visor is the explosion. >> I don't think so. I think I think they're just looking at nothing. >> They're just looking. Oh, this is decidedly much. >> Here it comes. >> Yeah. >> So, like it's a giraffe getting sucked off by a guy. >> This is a nightmare. In the original game, >> in the original game, you have the nice the nice dynamic shot where it sort of tilts and it spins as it's pulling back from Halo while the one big chunk flies towards the other chunk. It's kind of an iconic shot. They remade it in Halo 2 in the uh in the opening like the prologue with Arbiter, but instead this is what you get right here. >> I said this reminds me of um The Force Awakens. >> It's a when they blow up Stariller base. >> Look at that. >> Yeah, that's a good example. >> I almost want to say that might even be slightly too mean on Star Killer Base. What's causing the entire ring? I thought the whole point of blowing that ship up was in the original anyway that like that force of that explosion basically shatters the ring. So what's causing it to blow up from the inside at all points simultaneously? And why is the bottom shattering first? >> Uh the script. >> Oh, it was a It was a loadbearing part of the ring. >> That was a loadbearing part of the ring. >> We'll need them later. >> Wow, that was weirdly casual. Oh god, the delivery in this bit as well. >> Make it >> scanning. >> No, >> no. >> Just dust and echoes. >> We're all that's left. >> Just trying to sound a little sad. We're trying. >> We did what we had to do for Earth. >> You're just like guilty. Spark. Covenant Armada obliterated. >> She's comforting him instead of convincing herself again. >> You're smiling. Yes, that's another cuz this is the same as the key sequence is that she's clearly trying to convince herself in the original whereas here she's not and instead she seems pretty happy about it. She's smiling, dude. >> She got those monkeys killed. I don't know what you'd expect. >> Well, she's smiling because Dustin Eko has made it. Thank god. Uh, that's great. Ape, sir. Saved from the chickens. >> The chickens. >> Smile. >> We had no choice. >> Halo. >> I know that, Cortana. >> It's finished. >> It really is. She's convincing him. >> No. >> I think we're just >> John Halo speaks up. It's like >> there's way I think >> I think that is a insane misunderstanding of the tone that you're trying to convey at the ending of the game. Yes. >> Like putting so much emphasis on, oh my god, he's about to take the helmet off. Oh, cut to black. Haha, got you. Compared to the big like pull back as he takes the helmet off and then showing space as the music just continues to linger for another 10 or 15 seconds to let let it sink in. game begins with a shot of Halo and the game ends with space devoid of Halo while the music is playing. It's like it's it's a it's bigger picture. That's like all that's trying to say. Bigger picture. Not like, oh my god, is he going to take off his [ __ ] helmet? Are you going to see his [ __ ] face? Like >> less less emphasis on his face and more emphasis on like where is he going in space? Like where are we going now in terms of like the adventure of the story? >> Yeah. Our place in the in the universe has changed forever. It's like forever and permanently altered. Just let it sink in for a moment. Let and let the experience sink in. Instead, it's like, nah, you're going to see his [ __ ] face. They're so incompetent. They're so staggeringly incompetent, which um yeah, which uh and then we have the legendary ending, which uh have have you have you all seen this or? >> Yeah. >> Yes. That chatter just asked, "Do we get a Marvel cameo at the end of the credits?" Boy, do we have something to show you. >> I had a weird experience with this one because it started rolling the credits and I couldn't skip them, so I quit back to the menu and then it was like resume game. So, I hit resume game and then it gave me the postredit scene. >> Oh, that's weird. >> I don't know why it worked like that, but yeah, >> the first I just looked it up because I played on heroic first time and I didn't. >> Fear not, Marvel Bros. We have an after credit sequence. Here we go. >> That's right. Oh, wow. >> By the way, just before it even it's a it's a really fun little cut scene in the original. The fact that the elite grabs Johnson's ass is beautiful. It just the cherry on top. >> Hold me, baby. Yeah, >> he grabs his ass, but this is what you've got instead. >> The devs were having fun. >> Well, they they did an actual joke in those were the days. >> So, is that the original line? Did they have to pay David Skully like royalties for that? >> No, he re that was re-recorded. That's the new guy. >> Yeah. >> So, that even takes away from the like impact of it if it's the new guy on the old scene. >> Yeah. They're really [ __ ] proud of that sand. >> Yeah, >> get your ass out of here. >> Oh, you Harvey. Well, that's my cue. What is this tone? What the [ __ ] It >> was a little confusing to me cuz it's like, do they did they want to one up the original by being like, we're going to explain how he gets out straight away cuz we got a pelican right there. >> Even though it's like, well then what was he doing here the whole time? Exactly. First disappeared from Guilty Spark and then this is how he reappears. It's so weird. >> It is a continuity error. That's it. It is. It just was originally. I can live with that. Um compared to something like this. >> Well, I mean, you could also say none canon, right? As like a meme because it is a meme. >> Well, there's there's like a pseudo explanation in First Strike for how it happened. But it's like Yeah, it's just one of those things that when you're a Halo fan, it's like, yeah, Sergeant Johnson probably died, but he still shows up in Halo 2. Like, who gives a [ __ ] There's multiple Sergeant Johnson's in the game anyways. It's like Halflife how like there's a bunch of random characters and then they all end up having names in Halfife 2 and it's like well which one of these guys was Barney? Which one of these guys was Dr. Kleiner? It's like it doesn't matter. It that's just a fun part of the of the franchise. >> It's like no, >> but instead we need to make it a little wick nudge. >> Who's the Who's the Pelican pilot? >> I don't know. >> Just like on standby. >> Bum hammer. I told you bum hammer. >> Yeah, I think it's spicy. >> Okay. >> See you in the sequel. >> [ __ ] you. >> Presumptuous of you. You're going to get to make a remake sequel. >> Yeah. No, I hope I hope that's a curse that they've they've conducted upon themselves that they s You know what? Either way, right? Because if Halo 2 gets a remake, then everyone will talk about how awesome Halo 2 is. >> Yeah. We don't need that. We don't need that. >> I know. I know. I know. But at least that happens. >> That's the thing. We don't even know what the future really. >> You don't even need that though because Halo 2 has already had an anniversary version. >> It has. Well, with this also had a remake and also the original is very accessible. So, you know, all of that is, you know, not not necess but whatever. which um yeah, so we we got we got a couple of these prequel cutscenes we we got to check out as well cuz they added in prequel cut this prequel which by the way I've seen it pointed out the MarkV armor doesn't have a regenerating shields right like in in the in cannon >> and there was a solution for this >> which is Halo 3 ODST had a character who didn't have shields and they kept the mechanic but the stamina system so it's like just do that. >> Nah nah why would we do that? But this uh I assume this is your favorite cut scene in the game. Waller, you said, right? >> Well, so we just did all of those. What was someone someone here's pick for worst cut scene from that selection or this selection? >> Uh the thing is is that it's probably for me it's a battle between uh the two betrayals opening cut scene or the ending. Um, I feel like both of them get the tone so spectacularly wrong in a way that's very >> But like I didn't even put the main campaigns cut scenes in consideration because I consider this one in totality. >> No, I get what you mean. Um, no, in totality it probably is this one that we're about to watch. >> I think it comes down to how autistically obsessed with the [ __ ] reccon cannon stuff. To me, the two betrayal scene is really bad because it's feeding into the changing the forerunners to not be humans thing with the direction, and that's more egregious than like any new thing they can do. >> I understand that >> in a vacuum. >> This This one is just remarkably cringy. Uh to people who haven't played Halo, this one is really bad. >> Is this the profit scene? >> Yes. Yes. >> This is the worst. >> This is iconic. I think this is the worst. >> Dead. >> That would kill you. >> Well, sorry. I was actually going to ask about that. So, a grunt throws a sticky and he grabs it with his hand and throws it back. Isn't that >> Yeah, I don't know if you No, that sucks. You can't grab a sticky grenade and then throw it back >> cuz Yeah, of course. I would be like, why isn't everyone grabbing them off themselves and throwing them back if that's the case? >> No, think about that. We got the funny elite dance coming up here. >> This we must spend time on this. >> So, was it animated or was it motion capture? >> I think it was motion. the guy just started having a seizure while he's wearing the mocap suit. >> I think the problem is that they're bringing in actors one at a time to to act in a motion capture booth and then they're just shouting direction at them and being like, "Hey, >> dodge like you're like someone's shooting at you and then occasionally fire back like somebody's there shooting at you and then like they do that one person at a time and then they compile them all together in one scene." This is like it feels like it has this uncanny feeling to it where no one's actually reacting to what's actually happening in the scene. >> There's that earlier scene with the jackal running away that's also really funny. >> Yes. >> But this this is just incredible already. Like what the [ __ ] are these four doing? A lot of them aren't even aiming at anything. >> They don't know choice in the prequel missions is so [ __ ] atrocious. But like here the like this is not the song for this just because it oh it sounds ominous so it's going to be a good insert and it's like >> it's a guy who in a wheelchair who can't fight. Why would the Master Chief be scared of a prophet? What are they shooting at? >> Oh god. So indulgent day. What's a prophet doing here? >> What's a prophet doing here? a prophet doing here? >> Beats me. >> Hey, Waddles. Didn't think your kind got out that much. >> Crazy how everyone's shooting at each other and nobody's hitting anybody. >> No more grenades. Nothing. >> Hold your fire, my children. >> All right. >> This would be the time when Master Chief just shoots him in the [ __ ] head. >> Absolutely. Master Chief would just shoot him. >> They're not going to talk. There's nothing to talk about. Chief and Master Chief or like or Sergeant Johnson and Master Chief and have arbitrarily stopped shooting. So you guys stop shooting so we can have this monologue audience. >> Yeah. >> Introduce to the audience all the enemy types >> that uh the new new Halo game that they know about. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> We have a point of reference for this. when he saw regret, he just went [ __ ] punched him to death straight away. He's like, "Talk to him." >> This prophet to say the iconic translated line here where it just dragged on. >> That's that's canon prophet to me now. >> Have you enjoy have you enjoyed your stay so far, demon? >> Why is he calling him demon now? >> Yes, people pointed this out. Demon is a post Halo Combat Evolved moniker >> for the guy that blew up holy relic. >> Mhm. Yeah. Don't even make sense. Good job, guys. >> You and your companion given word of your arrival. I would have arranged a tour. >> I think we've seen enough already. >> Well, then why don't you kill Shoot him? >> Why are you getting out of cover, Chief? The only justification for this is that they see it as an opportunity to gain intelligence on what's going on here. And it's like, but if Master Chief is of the opinion that they've seen enough already, then just shoot. Exactly. Yeah. There's that. Also drove me nuts cuz I did see that defense. And later on, um, a [ __ ] TV screen comes down with the prophet and he just starts explaining his plan and then Johnson shoots the screen so you can't hear anymore. It's like, bro, >> that is our enemy. >> You're you are spies right now. Yeah, >> spy on them. >> It's It's a TV. It's like we can't hurt him. We may as well just let him tell us our his plan. >> I need my melodramatic moment of lashing out. >> That's what I mean though. Even the even the most petty defense of like, no man, he just want to shoot him for information. It's like no, that's not these characters even by this game standards. >> Are you not impressed with our work here? I would have thought you of all creatures would appreciate such steadfast dedication to improvement. >> That's quite a clunky line. >> Yeah. >> Why would he know about the >> on program is? Yeah. >> By the way, there's people in chat who've never seen this before and I feel for them for what's about to happen. >> Here's another thing. This is the this is now the earliest that the like Spartan modification program is really being mentioned like in a mainline game. It's not a plot point that comes up in the original Halo trilogy, despite what the Halo TV show would make you think. At that point, it's not actually important at all. >> The Spartan program is super pivotal to the cannon. The first time it really gets like meaningfully brought up is like the opening cut scene of Halo 4. >> 343 is obsessed with the Spartan program and the child soldier thing. >> So, it's like, why does the prophet know this? Why does he have access to this information? Like the only way I could rationalize it is that the prophet is a canonical in universe Master Chief Stan. >> Is that what you call it? >> I call it many things. De >> Oh my god. What are you doing? >> The idol animations are just like >> here you can observe the true beauty of the covenant. our collective strength a reflection of >> does do you guys not believe this is them overreaching like crazy on we got to introduce the covenant cuz the the original game didn't really do that properly. We've got to do it properly. >> I I can believe it. It's this is for the PlayStation people who are like who are these races? I need I need I'm going to >> That actually might be the case. >> Well, we all know how do you how can you play a game like Combat Evolved without this kind of scene to contextualize it? It gets very confusing cuz you're like, "Wait, what's the purple guys? The purple ships and alien." I don't know. I don't know how I'm not playing anymore. >> I'm confused. I'm going to uninstall. >> Most of this is just 343. 343 were told, "All right, guys. You got to make this work on a PlayStation." They're like, "But PlayStation players are retarded." Okay, fine. We'll do it >> as long as we can add in this scene. I heard there was like a really interesting way of experiencing this cuz I played original Halo up to like at some point like third of the way halfway through jumped over so I could catch up with this. I did the bonus missions first because I saw that they were like prequels. So this was kind of my first introduction to the Covenant as represented in in campaign evolves. It's like as soon as you see this, the job is to introduce them and my takeaway is that yeah, I'm not going to take any of you guys seriously ever again. What am I gaining from this scene? He sits there and he says, "Aha, and this is Frank and this is Bill and this is this is this is Bob." >> Listen, we need an in univer we need a cutscene that actually says the name Sang Healey so that people stop saying it wrong on YouTube lore videos. >> I kept getting in in my live chat, I kept getting comparisons to Dragon Ball Z's introduction of the Ginu Force. I don't know if any of you guys got this, but like there's like raccoon and Jace and it's just like >> they're taking the time to introduce all the enemy types. And it's just like even for veteran players, it's like do we really need this? >> The fact that the most belligerent and identified by rage one out of all of them has to wait in the back to be prompted as well. >> Aura back there. >> [ __ ] funny. Again, it's something that only makes sense within the context of the brutes show up in Halo 2. So, they're kind of a plot twist where it's like that's why he's standing in the shadows where it's like why wouldn't the brute be up in the front line to be part of the roll call? Why does he have this sense of theater kid dramatics with the way that he's presenting this information? >> So, canonically, how long have they been at war by this point? >> 25. >> Like 20 25 years. Yeah. >> Right. So, when he says, "Hey, this is the Covenant." So, >> yeah, no [ __ ] I've been killing you guys for the last two decades. >> Yeah. Yep. Pretty silly. >> Johnson was there for the start of the war. >> He knows who all these races are. >> Well, no. He likes to brush up. He's, you know, just make sure he's got it. >> And he he uses the lame names, not the good names. Sorry. I don't like saying that's what they're called. I've been calling them this entire time. >> Nope. Don't like it. They're brutes. They're elites. They're jackals. That's what they are. And that's what the Covenant shall call themselves to. I don't care. >> Each member's devotion, the tenacity of the >> cleverness of the kigar. >> See, it's already bad enough >> with their little reactions like they're being introduced. But then it just keeps outclassing, right? Cuz you're like those those were already tough. That was some cringe. Like welcome grunt. And he goes, "Woo, it's me the grunt." It's like, "Welcome Jackals." Like, "Yeah, man. Jackals." And then >> it needs it needs to build up music. >> Our partner since the Rit of Union, the first >> so embarrassing. >> These are grown ass men who are >> I'm the elite bro >> participating in a hype moment. >> Yeah. >> Well, they think like the people who made this are like, "Oh, the fans will love this." And there was one fan out there that was like, "Yeah." >> Uh, I think it's fine for them to have a language that has them as different names. Well, unfortunately in the Bungie games, they only ever call themselves elites and stuff. So to change it is to be incompatible with the Bungie games. They may well have alien names, but in all the cutscenes they call themselves elites. The elites call themselves elites. They call the brutes brutes. Tardus calls themselves the chieftain of the brutes. >> Sorry, I don't want. And also, you should just understand that people aren't going to remember Angoy and [ __ ] but they will remember grunts and elites and jackals because they have gameplay um elements that are plainly obvious. Whereas, I don't know that Sang Healey would tell you any like on its face, why would you know who that is compared to Elite? It's like, oh [ __ ] yeah, it's that guy there. That's big tall fellas. >> Have we not been saying this whole time? I thought you guys were. Damn. >> Level like that. You need to know it's Sang Healey. So when you get to Halo 5 and you go to Sang Helios, you connect. Oh. Oh, >> see it's the home world of the Sangil. >> The swords of Sangelio city. >> I wouldn't have figured it out with all the [ __ ] hinge heads on every corner that this was the elite home world. >> Bad expectation management as well for them to say and you know the cleverness of the jack. But then then how do you not know which way's up? >> Yeah. Here he comes. >> And the gural honey. What they lack in mind, they make >> Yeah. See, already you [ __ ] up. What they lack in mind. The brutes are not stupid. >> They're not. >> They're not 40 IQ retards. >> Yeah. This is Here is my giant angry [ __ ] Let me introduce him to you. >> What I What's the Now they made them stupid. Yeah, >> they don't introduce the hunters or the drones, which the hunters are in this game, so they have that excuse, but they also don't introduce drones or skirmishers >> or uh the engineers, any of these other races that exist within the Covenant. It's just like whatever backup dancers happened to be clocked in that day, that's who he's going to introduce. >> And he just happened to have one of each. Also, that means that this brute was just sat at the back during the firefight, waiting to walk out. So, how dumb is he if he knows to stand in the back and wait for his introduction to show up? >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're sending mixed messages, game, and muscle. But under our guidance, my guidance, their rage can be controlled. >> Observe. >> Now, shoot him. Video game weak point. So, Chief, do you want to shoot him at all? >> Are you no different, demon? >> Okay, Mr. Monologue. Sorry to interrupt. >> Why would you be warning him about your interruption, bro? Just shoot him. >> Well, that ends. Why are you interrupting him? Again, this is an information gathering opportunity. Even if it's basic level [ __ ] of, oh, now we know the names of all the species, you know, at least you're getting something from this. No, we got to be self-aware and say, "Okay, Mr. Monologue, >> I am a millennial writer. I am very smart." >> Oh, no. >> I like that he has a [ __ ] rail gun, but apparently it doesn't go just go through the brute and still hit him. >> No, it demonstrates your new gameplay mechanic. >> I think this is [ __ ] funny. And it didn't really click for me until I realized that the name of this ship is the triumph of tolerance. So their whole deal is uniting all of these alien species under one banner and then the giant monkey goes insane and starts killing everyone. >> Yes, it's incredibly based. >> What did 343 mean by this? >> He's going apeshit. Hey, it's almost like it's it's metaphorical for how the brutes will tear apart the Covenant in Halo. Yeah. Okay. I was hoping someone would stop me with my [ __ ] >> I I can understand. >> I mean, I'm uh which which introduces a new type of character. >> Oh, boy. >> Did uh did you did you guys' chats give this character any amusing nicknames? >> Uh >> I didn't remember it after a while. I I'd like to share a prediction I made before this game came out regarding this character. I said that this entire game is going to hinge on that female ODST and how they handle her. >> And uh I believe time has proven me correct on this >> to some extent. Yeah, >> there have been [ __ ] tons of viral posts just about her. And >> yeah, but I said this like well before the game came out. >> No, I'm saying after the game came out. >> That's what I'm saying. I'm not kidding when I said that this character is like this the deciding factor on whether this game succeeds or fails. And congratulations, it failed. >> Thanks, Sergeant Major. We owe you one. Didn't think we'd ever see any of our own again. >> So, I I can't unsee this now uh because my chat was referring to her as Space Abby. Um and that obviously made me look at her arms and her arms are [ __ ] tiny. Like you cannot expect me to believe that someone that size has this level of authority and respect from the other soldiers. >> She's tiny. >> Version has like no jaw, so she just looks like a thumb. >> It's the It's the voice that kills me with this woman as well. >> No, the more the intonation rather than the accent, but like the she's so extremely abrasive constantly and you're like, "Yeah, but that's the point." It's like that's great. That's great. I I love that. That's the point. Lieutenant Williams, Tiger Company, >> from the 92nd Shock Troops Battalion. >> One and the same. Honored you've heard of us, Sergeant Major. We certainly know who you are. >> The honor's mine, LT. Glad we could help. >> Racism. >> Robins, take the team and give me a perimeter check. >> Like, sorry. Did I just save your life or did I [ __ ] in your dinner? >> Even the way she said check. >> You didn't save my life. You ruined my death. That's what you did. >> You don't seem as impressed as the rest of your crew. >> No, Sergeant Major, I'm not. >> Takes more than fancy armor and a good PR campaign to impress me. >> Go yourself. >> Again, something you have to understand. But in the books, doesn't mean anything. >> This isn't even This isn't even referencing what they're talking about. What they're talking about is a guy who's holding a personal grudge because some of his soldiers got killed in a training accident. >> You have to understand, number one, the vast majority of people who have any familiarity with Halo have not read the books, so there's nothing to own them about. Like, you didn't read the books? Yeah, of course they didn't. It's the Halo video game series. That's like its principal cannon. >> And number two, I don't even believe your characterization. I haven't read the Fall of Reach in a while, so I don't remember exactly how it plays out, but like I don't believe >> the event happens in Fall of Reach. It's m they're testing how strong Master Chief is post augmentation. So they have three ODSTs box him and he accidentally kills two of them. And then the guy that was in charge of them, who was upset that they got used in that way, was ended up being a major character in the next novel, which was the flood, which is a novelization of Combat Evolved. What tickles me about this is that none of those characters in the flood even get referenced in the remake of Halo CE. So, I don't see how I'm supposed to like take seriously that like the flood is this thing that I'm supposed to be referencing in in my interpretation of the character when the flood wasn't even important enough to make it into the remake of the game that it was novelizing. >> And then, of course, you just got the other element. Oh, go for it. >> Well, I mean, there's also the whiplash in intense. So, we've just got done with the cutscene, which is so [ __ ] because it thinks it's appealing to people who've never played any of the games before, and then the introduction of one of the more important characters is saying, "What? What do you mean you haven't read the book?" >> Well, you have both of those positions. >> It is establishing the expectation that to be a Halo fan, you have to read all of this out of uh out of game canon [ __ ] in order to keep up with what the [ __ ] happening because that's the only way you can understand what the hell's happening in 343 games because >> Yeah. You would not understand Halo Infinite if you didn't read the books. >> But this this is a remake. This level isn't, but this game is a remake of Combat Evolved. And as someone who is really only familiar with Combat Evolved, I am this is so [ __ ] jarring because none of the Marines ever speak to Master Chief anything like this. Yep. >> And then suddenly we have new character who's like, "Hey, [ __ ] you for saving my life." >> What are you talking about? PR campaign. What is this nonsense? It's like as if >> Johnson can get all the props for everything they've just done in this mission and it's like Chief was doing them all too. It's like yeah but you don't count cuz you get a PR campaign. What are you talking about? >> And then you just have the fundamental problem which is I I you I I have a POV. Mine is that Master Chief is super cool and he saves the galaxy like multiple times. >> I like him a lot. So like if you present me with a character who the first thing she does is say [ __ ] you chief. It's like >> what do you think my reaction to that is going to be? Oh, I like >> there's a player psychology aspect, too, where um you are the Master Chief. You're supposed to be immersing yourself in this character. So, when she insults the Master Chief, of course, the player interprets it that she's insulting them. Like it's the least surprising thing that upsets people. Which is why I think she was created in a lab to be a magnet for like the anti-woke stuff. Like to deflect the from the actual criticism of the game so that the core Halo fans keep buying this [ __ ] so that they can wrap it up as anybody who's criticizing this game is just one of those misogynistic chuds who hates Williams. That's why she exists. No other reason. Mhm. >> I mean, they failed like immensely on just >> No, I I think they succeeded in the respect. >> I don't even get to finish sentences around here. It's not fair. God damn it. I was going to say they failed immensely at like binding her into the story in any way, shape, or form, even if that was their goal. They could have tried a little [ __ ] harder. >> No, I I disagree. They succeeded in that all of the Halo criticism is going to be dismissed as like misogynistic chutishness. >> But like who cares about any of that if the game doesn't sell and you'll get fired. >> This was their old strategy under Phil Spencer. They did this or >> something, you know? Mission accomplished. As they as the ship crashes and burns behind them, >> you shot yourself in the balls and then you lost your job. Like well well done. Why did you do that? >> Also, question for your theory. What do you think the devs think of her? Like a >> I I mean they I think they they think she's aspirational because she's got that girl boss element to it. There's no doubt about that. But I don't think they included her because they wanted to show a girl boss. I think they included her because they wanted a magnet for the anti-woke rage. Well, it sounds like a meme, doesn't it? Like if you describe this in isolation, you're like, "Oh, they're bringing out a remake of the original Halo, sorry, original Halo." And you're like, "Oh, yeah. Any changes?" It's like, "Yeah, there's this girl who hates you and takes charge of the mission and shits on you in it and she's like an ODST and she's super badass." You're like, "What do you joking?" Like, well, in a sense, cuz she's extremely obnoxious and annoying. You're like, "What do you mean? Why would they do that?" >> And of course, something that I enjoy as well as sort of a wrench that gets thrown into this is that people don't feel this way about Veronica Dare. or Cat or any of the other characters that have been compared to this character. >> And I mean, you know, and and the reason why it's a particularly awkward comparison is because Darra is also an ODST. She takes charge of a squad that isn't her own for like her own essentially mission that she needs to complete um and has conflict with Buck who you're essentially instantly um you know, meant to like. And yet, you know, it's like, oh, but there wasn't this massive negative response to Dare. It's almost like there's something else that maybe you've written a very lame character that I've seen in a million things routinely like frustrating just persona that you think is awesome. >> I mean, you know, you sit here, you're like, "Hey, why didn't you make a character that was like inspired by Chief like like from the get- go?" >> No, you need conflict. And then you'd be like, well, what if the conflict is that she's scared and that she actually failed her team or something and that Chief is going to work with her for this mission and inspire her. >> She has a quote unquote character arc over the course of the last two prequel missions. And I think that was their justification of here's a new conflict we can explore. >> You know what? You're not so bad. >> Is it Can we call it Can we call it a character arc if she just does a 180 on her position after a cut scene? >> Well, that's what I'm saying. Like a character radial. Like why would I buy that? She's like, "Wait a minute. I was wrong about you the whole time. It looks like all those missions I heard you do weren't lies that you you actually do them." You're like, "Yeah, could have asked Johnson. You seem to trust him that he's he's worked with him. I just like what?" Like, "Oh, now I believe in you fully, Master Chief. I've seen it firsthand. >> I'm going to die for you." >> And this it doesn't help you like her. It just makes you think like you were just an idiot then. Go away. Blow up. >> Mhm. And of course, it is just very awkward when again, it's worth noting what happens right before this cut scene is you save these people. >> You save their lives. >> A similarity to Abby actually >> in in det in in determining what would be something that would be like acceptable by the fans. They looked at the lore and they acknowledged the beef that exists between the ODST and the Spartans because in the lore the ODSTs kind of resent the Spartans for being like genetically augmented and like where it's just like the ODSTs had the metal to just like go in and [ __ ] do the job without any [ __ ] like special modifications or whatever the [ __ ] and um the and then the Spartans come along with like [ __ ] done to their bones and whatever like they they're they're given injections and stuff and they were made these like they're made into these super soldiers and the the ODSTs feel like well I mean they feel like they like they're sort of cheating in a way feel there's sort of the resentment in there between the the the ODSTs and the Spartans that they're trying to play off of here. And um but it to me it feels like a weird grudge to hold on to cuz it's just like well let's look at the broader scope of what's happening here like like we're all we're all in danger here that you know that >> I like the the covenant are a threat to all of us. We're all doing our best and then the ODST is just like well you guys were we were born you were made that's like the key >> shades of shades of the Halo show I would say of this weird infighting amongst humanity rather than hey none of that really matters when we're all getting killed right now. >> So I get what John's getting at. I the the thing of it is what's what they're referencing is really just one character's specific personal grudge from something that happened to him that he was involved in >> and not like a universal rivalry that exists. And so >> if it was like they wanted to I don't know it's a having your cake and eating it too where we're supposed to take this rivalry seriously but they're not going to reference the things that inform the rivalry in the game itself. And so it's like why do I care in the games? I see that the ODSTs like the Spartans pretty much unconditionally. That's what kind of bugs me. >> Yeah. >> And you're right, like the whole >> existential conflict of it, it's like, yeah, get over it. >> Well, yeah, that's that's kind of what I mean by the what I mean by they failed as in like if they wanted to create this character to sinker into the story, you could actually create a reason for it to hate [ __ ] Spartans. You could have worked a bit harder and you could create a reason to better justify her not hating them. They didn't seem to really bother. They just sort of gave up. Gave the most generic [ __ ] through line ever. There's like one moment where she says that [ __ ] about the being created or whatever. And then doesn't doesn't Halo say like, "Hey, we I can't control that >> or I" And then she's like, "Hm, true, fair." Yes. >> I've never thought of that. >> It's [ __ ] pathetic. It seems like a Yeah, it's a really silly grudge to hold on to. I think like like cuz like like the like like it was outlined by Mer the conclusion that's reached is like like Master Chief ends up saying like we can't control what what we what we became all only what we become, right? It's just like what happened happened. It's just like now it's up to us to decide what we do with that. And it's just it just feels like a a really obvious conclusion to come to. >> Yeah. Like like we're bordering on you were created in a [ __ ] lab. And he's like, "But I'm nice though." She's like, "Oh, >> yeah. I hadn't thought of that. You've given me a lot." >> That's right. >> We do have our thanks. It's been rough out here. >> What? I can't believe they're playing I can't believe they're playing this music as well. This is the music that plays when Arbiter finds out, you know, that he's been the prophets have betrayed us and it's when Miranda gets killed. This is the music that plays. Listen, >> you do have our thanks. It's been rough out here to say the least. >> Yeah, exactly. They're trying to key into those existing emotional moments so that they can sell that like, listen, she may be ball busting Master Chief, but she still thanks them. So, why are you mad, Chud? >> Mhm. Forward the pleasant trees and skip to the part where we get the hell off this ship. >> The way she talks, >> Williams, we'll get you out of this fox. >> But we've still got to stop to make before we're done. >> That works for us. The more losses we can hand these bastards, the better. >> She's so forced. Holy [ __ ] >> dude. Everything Everything sucks, man. Everything is just so [ __ ] lame. It's so lame. Oh god. So, just right off the bat, we want this character to die and we're going to spend about four hours with her. >> Yeah. >> Yes. You got a while left with her. This is like right at the beginning of mission two. So, you got about 3 hours more. >> But uh I mean, we might as well watch the next one and then the the we could we could uh jump to the last one. >> Jeez. Let's get to the bridge. >> Affirmative. Exit should be this way. both unnecessary lines. Yeah. >> I also don't understand why is the exit that way. Why isn't it the way you came in? >> I don't understand this whole side quest that they're on. You got in, you found the people, just turn around and came back out the way. >> More people. That's why there's more guys they got to get. >> Oh, I've completely blanked on that part of the mission. >> That's right. Yep. We should listen more now because you got that wrong. >> That's not what they say though. They establish in the cut scene that like, no, we're going to the bridge. So, it's like Why are we going the wrong way? >> Can't expect attention to detail in this. Okay, that's a that's a silly expectation. >> So, what's the plan, Chief? >> We get the data and >> Why are we playing the music when we go to the Ark? because they didn't want to make new music because they would either have to hire somebody who can't make something that matches the original or they would have to hire Marty O'Donnell. And ew, uh, he's a Republican now. Uh, so >> they just got to reuse what's in their library and it's just like everything that's in the library has existing >> emotional connotations >> and it's all going to be out of place. >> But they are picking like some of the worst songs possible. I mean, the [ __ ] from Halo 3 that you shouldn't touch that stuff just because of like the the stakes that are associated with that. Pick stuff from ODST if we're dealing with an ODST character. >> Yeah, that would be a logic there. But it's like how the opening crawl has uh the lone wolf uh track like from Reach. It's just like, oh, >> I Okay, sure. All right. Whatever you say. >> The music in these prequel missions is all over the place. >> Yeah, it is. It's almost like when you pull from a whole bunch of different games that weren't, you know, structured around your terrible ideas. >> Even for me, it was just a Halo jukebox. I was like, "What have we got now?" Oh, yeah. I kind of like this song. I don't know what it means here, though. >> Why not? >> It it it's it's like a greatest hits album without any consideration of like cuz like the scores for each individual Halo game were created, I think, for a specific intention. like like emotionally like the the like Halo 1 was trying to do a different thing than Halo 2 was doing and Halo 3 was doing and now this these prequel missions just draw musically from all those missions >> in a way like we could we can just mix and match all these tracks and whatever whatever sounds good let's just do it like >> it feels it feels looks at the camera and he's this this is you know like whatever name is and then explain the track and which one it was and for which level like a mixtape. >> Yeah. >> Lieutenant, we're about to head straight into the middle of the hive to get that honey we came for. The chief and I will handle that side of things. >> We're combat ready. We're not about to sit this out. >> Sit it out. My armor plated ass. Lieutenant, I can assure you there will be no sitting. Chief and I will secure the bridge. We need your crew to head straight to the nearest hangar bay and secure our ride out of here. >> Now that's more like it. Give him hell, Sergeant Major. We'll keep the engine running. >> Oh, that Yes. Let's watch as they slowly walk off. Good stuff. Then uh yeah, many many of you may have already seen this, but here you go. Now, bear in mind the context for this is that uh Chief and Johnson think that the the ODST and and the Marines might be in trouble and they got to go they got to go and help them. They might be in danger. for the camera. >> This is one of those moments where it's like, okay, so they know what they're doing. They're trying to piss people off. >> What is this? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's just it's the theory. Like, she was created in a lab to be a magnet for Chuds. Nice work. >> Thanks. Spartans aren't the only badasses in the UNC. >> This is an embarrassing line. I'm sorry. It's embarrassing. No amount of but in the books can overcome the cringe factor of that line. >> Sorry. That's that simple. Like you can't you can't talk someone out of a visceral reaction that they have to something. It doesn't work. you need to prompt better reactions from people rather than oh and then what actually in the books it's just insane but >> at this point the existing Halo fan base is much like the current Star Wars fan base. >> Yeah, exactly. There is a trunch of human beings who actually likes this. Maybe not a big trunch based on the player counts we're getting, but >> allegedly they exist. These creatures we have to study them. Why does every shot have a slow zoom AI style uncanny valley awkward silence? I don't know, Nick. It's It's crazy. It's actually insane how consistent that is across all of the cut scenes. Even when they had homework to copy >> AI or [ __ ] call it >> [ __ ] I can't tell. I don't know. >> What about [ __ ] AI? Have we considered this? >> Yeah, that's a possibility. >> It's too forced. Like they were they were just sitting on top of the corpses waiting for them to come in >> just for that beat to occur where it's just like oh >> look >> they took care of them and they were more than capable than we thought they were. >> Guys, grab all those corpses and put them here cuz he's going to come in through that door which I know for some reason. And then we're all just going to wait here. No one move. He's coming. He's I can hear his footsteps. >> Well, they probably knew where we were coming from because they heard the massive gunfire we just came from. that they didn't help us with. So they knew where we were going. >> They couldn't help us. They were too busy posing the corpses and making sure they didn't answer that radio either. Graham. >> Yeah. >> Take out the prophet. >> Negative. >> Whatever the Covenant's working on here needs to be stopped before it can go any further. >> Which is funny because it didn't get stopped because all the other the elites and the jackals did get turned into flells in Halo 4 and five. So it didn't work. >> The prophet escaped to continue his research to one day make Juel and so we could have Halo 4 >> to create him but also to make it so the Arbiter also has flimpy mandibles as well. >> 15 years and we're finally almost getting an answer as to what the [ __ ] was happening in Halo 4. >> Yep. >> We need to destroy the ship. >> Chief DT is right. We need to blow this entire ship to molecules. We can't let them finish cooking up what's in these labs. >> Libra actual, this is Libra 2. I'm breaking radio silence to request immediate assistance. We are green for Xville. Requesting a fire mission against our current location. >> Libra 2, this is Libra actual. We are ready for rendevous. Tactical indicates our ship doesn't have the firepower to penetrate the target's energy shields. If you can find a way to drop their shield strength, even for a few moments, we should be able to take the shot. Copy that. >> By the way, I had several people in chat asking what is the context of the poll. I am disappointed. I feel it was very self-explanatory. >> Your options are AI, [ __ ] [ __ ] AI, or [ __ ] using AI. And all of these are >> you got to call it. Yeah. >> Keep your weapons hot. We'll be in touch. >> So, take out the generators. >> Great idea, but it'll only drop the shields for a minute or two at most. That's all the time they need to take the shot. >> Yeah, but you can't be here when the fireworks start. >> And he doesn't need to. You guys get off this ship, get the navigator to the UNC. We'll drop the shields. >> You know, if you think about it, she saved Chief's life. >> Yes, like George saved Noble 6. >> Or Johnson could have done it. I feel like they just gated past like Johnson could be the one. >> You know, if you think about it, she's the reason that Halo 1, two, and three happened at all. >> That's right. Yes, >> because the events on this [ __ ] ship were relevant to anything that was going on in Halo. >> Yeah. >> Negative, Lieutenant. That's Lieutenant. >> Oh, [ __ ] >> That's a one-way trip. >> It's been a one-way trip from the beginning for us, Chief. At least now we get to go out on our own terms. >> Yeah, this is what I mean. Like, she's perpetually [ __ ] obnoxious. No matter what her state is, no matter what how she feels, she has to treat everything. It's just like a train running into people's faces. >> That wasn't the mission. >> Mission's changed, Chief. >> They didn't have the mission to get captured. >> Now we're giving these Marines a chance to punch back. >> Damn right, Chief. I got to do this. It would haunt me every day to know we let this nightmare factory survive. >> It's I love how indulgent it is compared to George just saying, "Reach has been good to me. Time to return the favor. Don't deny me this. or just even as simple as Noble Six just saying negative. I have the gun. Good luck, sir. And that's it. >> Instead, it's like, let me do a little monologue about how [ __ ] awesome I am. >> She She's saying, "I got to do this." And we all know the answer is because both of these characters are in later games, so they can't do it. Like, she has to do it >> for the sake of the continuity >> for this mission that they invented. They pulled out of their ass and then like ah the noble sacrifice of Williams, Lieutenant Williams. >> She was my favorite dude. >> Please, please stop. >> iconic tape, the orange tape. >> I will say it's um it's something that's, you know, cuz obviously all of this dialogue is like slop crap that is in a lot of different games, but like the writing in the Halo games is kind of like remarkably punchy a lot of the time. Uh, I think that the quality of the dialogue is actually kind of surprisingly good in the Bungeie Halo games. Very snappy. Uh, lots of lines that make you think. I am a monument to all your sins is a crazy line. I love it. There's nothing in this. Would you believe me if I told you there's nothing in this that makes you think as much as something like that? This entire product exists to help you better appreciate uh 20-year-old games. >> That's right. I uh I am reminded again it was uh in the the developer commentary for Halo 2. I think Jason Jones said that he had two lines of dialogue for uh for Halo 2 like when he when he when initially he was coming up with ideas. The lines were, "I am a monument to all your sins and the cable. I'm going to cut it." I don't know about that second part, but I enjoy the idea that that was that was one of the lines. But oh, it's it's just oh, it's so it's so nice as well as the contrast between especially in Halo 2 between the way that the humans speak to each other and the Covenant, you know, the elites. >> They're so elegant. But here it's like, "Yeah, now we got the chance to hit him hard and you're that's what I'm going to do. every day to know we let this nightmare factory survive. >> And you're just waiting for the [ __ ] building block that they're so desperate to put in, which is like, "Hey, Chief, you're all right." >> You're just like, "No, I don't need your all right, >> John. Halo, you're all right." >> And I'll be damned if I let a Spartan steal the glory of this one. >> Yep, we got it. >> It's a bunch of unnecessary >> That's our chief. Time to go. >> But now we need Chief to really think about it for a moment. >> Music. >> This is just profoundly awkward because in the Halo games, they never put Chief in a situation. There's only one instance where they put him in a situation where he needs to leave. But the reason why he needs to leave is because there's an urgent problem that needs solving immediately. Not like you need to leave so that you can like live, you know, like >> you're too expensive for to die here. Cuz in the only example is in Halo 2 when he has to leave Cortana behind. But the reason why is because she's telling him you need to go get on that ship and stop Truth and I need to stay here as opposed to oh you got to vaguely live to fight another day or something cuz it's just kind of out of character that Chief would be like you know what that on that equation that's correct. I need to live your life doesn't matter as much as mine. Go and blow this ship up and I'm going to go on a vacation after this. >> No good. >> Sometimes you just really want Chief from maybe someone's someone's show here to be in the scene instead. You know that version to talk to him. >> John Halo so he can emotionally freak out. >> What's going on? >> I'm talking about Arby the Chief Chief. Like that chief would [ __ ] up him. >> It would be great. Arb and the chief chief would just ask her to show him his tots. >> In my version, we don't see his bare ass. So, there's that. >> And that's a mistake you're still paying for. >> He's naked in every scene. >> Let's move out, Marines. >> This is the music that plays >> when she is lamenting that Cortana got left behind. Yeah. >> No, it's it's the I'm sad about her music. That woman. >> It's vaguely sad music. So, we're going to play that now. >> Well, I remember thinking like what what is this being symbolic of? Like the where where they're grabbing the the module off of the >> genetic experiments like me and I have lingering resentment over that. >> Yeah. I feel like well th the the the this device in in terms of how it's being applied to the brutes is suppressing rage. So it's just like is this symbolic of how the odius have rage towards the Spartans? >> I mean you're thinking about it way more than they did. >> Yeah. I wasn't even thinking about it symbolically. I was just thinking like chief's like man we got to go and collect all of these pick them up off of all the brutes so that they start smashing the covenant to bits for us. >> Okay. Okay. >> No, this is >> Oh, nice. >> And then and then it tilts down to like >> a hunter in the corpse pile. >> Oh, it's gone. You're right. Yeah, there was a hunter that they were sitting on and now it's gone. >> Oh, nice. >> I'm telling it's got a storyboarded by AI because there's just like straight up continuity errors. >> Well, oh, wait. Okay, on that we got our answer definitively. It is not AI. Absolutely not. It is a [ __ ] using AI, which is completely different. Okay, >> a [ __ ] using AI is the most plausible explanation for this. Though, I will say I kind of [ __ ] it up because I didn't have the option of [ __ ] using [ __ ] AI, which probably would have won. >> Well, >> well, if it's a [ __ ] using AI, then it's necessarily [ __ ] AI, though, right? Yeah, but if it was a [ __ ] using [ __ ] AI, that's like compounds it, you know? >> It's co-pilot, so it's especially bad. >> Do do you guys think I'm reading too much into it where I think like that's supposed to be symbolic of like the ODST holding this grudge against the Spartans? I I can see I think it's more Master Chief has an emotional connection with like the program itself where it's like he's feeling like he's repressed as a person and >> we are alike brute and I yeah >> without being the subject of experiments >> because it's to that earlier cut scene of the prophet being like don't you feel at home in this situation? It's all based on you, Master Chief. >> Okay. >> The obvious is almost like a distraction from >> But also, yeah, >> where the original plot was. >> I don't think it's even mean to say that. I just don't think they thought too hard or long about any of it like when they were making this. There's so many fuckups. >> I I agree with that. Yeah, >> it's just thoughtless. Speaking of which, last cut scene. We're almost there, guys. The music. How dare you? >> Dude, this mission was so [ __ ] awful. Yes, >> the end of an action sequence and we're playing like somber emotional music. >> Surely you would end with action music and then it's like, oh wait, there's a loss here. This is somber. >> Loss here. >> This is Libra 2. We're ready for pickup. >> We've also got a profit. Submit for postumous commendations. >> Acknowledged. >> Welcome aboard. >> Just >> Oh man, this it makes you think like when Arbiter is talking to the ship master about, you know, going home and everything. >> The uh the ship that got destroyed, what was his name? >> Triumph of tolerance. >> So yeah, proof killed tolerance. >> The burden of proof killed. the burden of proof. Cancel culture is over. >> I, by the way, I feel like this is yet another reaction to like how all of the names for their ships are boring. Like the UNC Infinity, it's like an incredibly boring name. And they're like, "Oh yeah, all the like Bungee ships were like, you know, there were three words, so we just got to come up with three words." Uh, burden of proof. Yeah, that's a thing. It's like, yeah, but the whole point is they're kind of weird configurations of words. like in amberclad. The [ __ ] does that mean? You know, it's like that's a very that's like a very much >> pillar of autumn is awesome. >> Yeah. >> Forward unto dawn. That's like the forward unto dawn is probably the most direct name >> probably. Yeah, cuz like in amberclad is particularly esoteric in a way that I love. >> Bird of proof is a hell diver ship name. Wonder if you can guess what uh >> wonder if you can guess what ship name got in my head. >> Uh what the indulgence of conviction? >> Yeah, I I'm I'm kind of fascinated by the concept of conviction anyway because a bunch of stories that I'm like favored off with it. But I've never heard the combination of words indulgence of conviction. It's like that is very interesting like overconvicted. It's like oo. And of course applying that to not only a Covenant ship, but one that has been [ __ ] up by the flood. Like there's lots of things to think about that. >> Yeah. >> But Oh, look. There we go. Now we can sort of reflect on the experience we just had with our little postredit scene, too. >> This was me. Yeah, this doesn't mean much to people who haven't played. >> Very funny, >> ma'am. >> It's a incredible >> glad that you made it back in one piece. >> And John, >> oh 117. He's a good kid. >> They are not children anymore, Sergeant Major. >> He's a good kid, he said, of a [ __ ] like 40year-old man. >> They're all kids to him, buddy. They're all kids to him. >> Super old. That's >> right, Doc. >> When you're as old as I am, they're all still kids. Do you think there might be other Covenant ships like this out there? >> Hard to say. The prophets seem to be working alone. >> Genius often is. >> Oh, >> you should be pleased to know this little excursion was well worth the effort. It looks like you just might have found the heart of the Covenant after all. >> Um, this is hilarious. >> This is very funny. >> What? What? Okay. So, in 2551, Chief went on a mission with Lieutenant Williams, who bravely sacrificed her life for the intention that tells them that high charity exists and with which they do nothing because >> it [ __ ] discovers itself in Halo 2. >> Yeah. Like, you're locked in. You are locked in to High Charity is in Halo 2. Like, so they found the information and did nothing with it because they can't do anything with it because high charity is in Halo 2. >> I have to assume obviously this is the very funny interpretation working with the games. >> I think this is another sequel bait of we're going to get more prequel missions in Halo 2 where we're going to adapt the storyline of First Strike because that that part of that takes place on high charity >> and that's their bit and it's just like no no you're not getting that. We're not doing that. And it this doesn't work within the context of what somebody who just plays the games would understand. >> Well, yeah. This is meant to be for people who don't know anything about Halo. This is meaningless to them. This is for the PlayStation. >> It's like a big mushroom thingy or something. I don't know. >> I think the notion of the PlayStation players who do go on to play Halo 2 and then are like, "That's it. That was the big reveal was setting up something that just kind of shows up for humanity anyways. Yeah. So, pretty pretty uh Well, hey, that's exciting, isn't it? That's it, though. That's the end. >> Oh, yeah, man. >> Exciting reveal. Lieutenant Williams, who died, didn't get to say her last words for nothing. >> No, that's funny. That's Yeah, she got denied that, but um >> tragic. Tragic, >> man. Like, I mean, what what more is to be said about this game? >> Yeah, I suppose it's not like we covered every single thing possible, but we we we did a lot. We've covered a lot. a lot. We certainly did. Um, and I'm realizing that I might save some of these great tweets that I found of the things that people have said about the conversation surrounding this game for next week. >> Well, yeah, this is not over >> technically. >> No, this is the the adventure is not over because we've talked about what we think. Now, we're going to see what a bunch of people think, including including just a really funny video that I think will be worth watching that was released by Halo Studios themselves when they were pitching their new studio and and Unreal Engine and how it was going to solve everything. Age like I say it aged like milk, but anybody sensible should have realized that it was always going to. We got >> I do have a question though, which is what did Halo Studios actually do on this game? I think that remains to be seen as the u we don't know the extent of what contract article at some point there'll be some article at some point that talks about how um something that I saw but I don't know how valid it was was about like that there was massive crunch that porting everything over to Unreal Engine was not as easy as they thought it was going to be. But I figured we might as well >> wait for the inevitable article about how much of a disaster it was. ask cuz I I was trying to work it out by watching the credits which incidentally on my version anyway the [ __ ] didn't end with the end of the game because the credits were rolling and then the screen just started eating itself. It's just the amount of screen tear on the end credits was quite impressive. >> I was looking through just like think where where the [ __ ] are all the Halo Studios employees cuz every single thing is an outsourced contractor. You've got studios, outsourced studios owned by outsourced studios owned by outsourced studios that were outsourced to by Halo Studios. >> Welcome to the future videos. Now, instead of they're not a company, they are an umbrella of contract studios. >> That was a conversation that sort of arose with Halo Infinite was that it became apparent that a substantial amount of that game was outsourced. There's massive churn at that studio as well. A really high turnover rate. Um, which is >> there's a degree to which that's expected of certain types of studio like a small studio underneath a massive umbrella company in particular will use a whole bunch of outsourcers, whole bunch of contractors like most probably video game employees at this stage contractors anyway just because of the nature of the work. But for Halo Studios as in like the name of the actual game that sort of gave birth to the Xbox really um one of Microsoft's biggest IPs ever. You don't expect them to be operating like a like a relatively small subsidiary. You kind of expect them to be in charge of the thing that they have given their name or from which they've taken their name even. Um, and it's why I think that you could tell the precise moment at which they started getting work back they couldn't fix cuz they got it back too late. You can tell all the AI breaks at this specific moment. All of the problems arise from this specific moment. Basically like the halfway point of the game is just cuz like it's been so terribly managed from basically top to bottom. Nobody seemed to have been speaking to each other. Uh, no one was on deadline. It was just It looks like an absolute mess. >> It is a It's It's like I said, I I I wonder and maybe I maybe that'll be a good way to sort of wrap up our thoughts on it. I said at the beginning, I think this is the worst game that 343 has made. How do we all feel about that? >> Just to explain the visuals, by the way, this is me showing a soft lock in Silent Cographer where I pressed the button and then the door wouldn't open. It just stayed locked. I guess also maybe to contextualize that question, bear in mind Halo 4, right? Very >> just botched multiplayer, some really quite horrible uh retcons. Halo 5 a terrible campaign, like a horrendous story, not really a complete game when it launched. MCC didn't work for ages. Halo Infinite incomplete. um missing features, things that were promised that then just got cancelled um eventually. Uh and and now we've got this and I I think this is the worst game that they've made. >> If I can just add one variable before others share their thoughts, something I really do keep in mind with this is every good thing in this game comes from a different game. Like it's not >> exactly. >> It's it's why I would likely be convinced to say it's their worst. Even though I haven't played all of this stuff, >> I have to say no. just because the only thing that I find truly offensive about it is that they're butchering something that was better than what they were capable of. But the sheer calm [ __ ] of what they would go on to do. I mean, when we were talking about the whole like the humans aren't actually forerunners. The humans are genetically predisposed to find a specific 4erunner lady sexually attractive. That's not me making something up. That is Halo 4. Um, >> I their worst product has to be one of those games that was in the either Halo 4 or Halo 5 because that was their hubris era. Halo Infinite was when they desperately realized they need to change directions and that game's just kind of [ __ ] up because they wasted a ton of money making a Halo 5 sequel and then realized that wasn't tenable as a product and so they rebranded to like, see, we're going to be faithful and they weren't. And then you have this and it's just like I don't know. The I I can't say this is the worst. The >> the thing is is that the pro the problem is like here's the here's the arguments I would put forth for all of their other games. Halo 4 is a confident game. That is a misplaced confidence, but that confidence does mean that you have a game that is actually it is their most complete game. It is their most complete game with the most coherent vision um for something that they want to do that I don't like, but it does have that working in its favor. Um it's the most functional even though it's still got plenty of design problems. Um it it's got that going for it. Halo 5, I hate the story. It is absolutely horrible. However, the multiplayer, if you ignore that it isn't really providing an experience that Halo offers and was incomplete and War Zone is lame, um, if you look at the arena multiplayer, it's kind of all right, maybe even good. Um, and then Halo Infinite is a case of like I think the multiplayer was barren. There was really a lot of problems with the microtransactions. That campaign was clearly like not what they intended and incomplete, a very incomplete game. However, at its core, you've got relatively functional mechanics. Um, meanwhile, with this game, I think it is like actually in its present state broken to the core. >> Uh, who else speaks to this this having played it? >> Ah, yes, that's true. >> Yeah, that's right. It's there's only like three of us, I think, that can answer this question. >> Yeah, that's right. Not not even I can actually cuz I haven't played four or five so I can't say anything about that. >> Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. I mean I don't like four or five but like at least they were trying to do something different with that. Now it's like they're trying to trace over something that was like held in very high regard and they still [ __ ] it up. >> I I will take a bad trace job over the sheer contempt that Halo 4 and five feel for this franchise. That's >> Halo 4 was a game that was made by people who they themselves admitted hated Halo. >> Frank Oconor said in an interview they hired people to make Halo 4 who hated Halo. >> Why? Why? Why would they? >> Because it was 2012 and everybody was really That's why it was 2012. It was prior to the era that we're in now where people thought that they could say these kinds of things and there'd be no consequences. Like you could say something like >> it feels >> analogous to some other franchises where the choice is between redoing stuff you're familiar with horribly or adding on to the stuff horribly. It's like cuz when they eventually remake the original trilogy for Star Wars the question will come is this worse or is the sequel trilogy worse? >> It'll be like h one. >> Bear in mind though as well something something that's worth remembering is that they had a lot of smoke blown up their ass. There were a lot of people, a lot of the game journals that said that Halo 4 was the best Halo game ever. I uh I I have a distinct memory. It was like some sort of IGN podcast and it was baffling where someone on the panel said Halo 4 was not wellreceived, which is correct. It wasn't like amongst players. It was not wellreceived and and the guy who did the review was like he was like baffled that he would even say that that it was so obviously incredibly wellreceived. Um because it's got really good reviews. Um they were really confident. You can see that >> is that one the most debated out of the Halo Studios 3 43 era. >> What? Halo 4? >> Yeah. Like out of Halo 4, 5 and Infinite, which one is the one that's most contested on being a good game? Infinite because a lot of Halo fans kind of quietly checked out of Halo with Halo 4. It was when Halo 5 was doubling down on being egregious and then Halo Infinite was like >> Halo Infinite was wishwashing because it was still bad as far as the old Halo fans were concerned. But now the new Halo fans who actually liked four and five were disappointed that all their favorite characters got offscreened and that they were abandoning that style. So I would argue Infinite was probably the most divisive in the Halo community. Like I guess the thing is it's also different perspectives as well. Halo 4 multiplayer was like universally panned like universally it it it it collapsed the player base for Halo 4. Like that that was a particularly notable drop off in terms of people not playing it anymore. Um Halo 5 Halo 5 is probably the one that people most agree on. Pretty much everybody agrees that the story is terrible and that the campaign sucks. and people are generally on board with multiplayer is like kind of like not even bad at all, but it's not it's not a Halo game really. Um, yeah, I don't know. It feels like Halo 4 I feel like Halo 4 now is much more accurately assessed. Um, the fact that it had lots of storytelling ambitions and we're going to humanize Chief, that seemed to work for a while. Um, it might have even worked for me where I would have been like, "Oh, that stuff's like not bad. It's the world building and the lore." And and obviously I've changed my mind on that now. I think I think that's obviously bad cuz it's very incompatible with who he was. >> There is a video I got to show on this topic by Bunker Dweller where he goes over Halo 4 and he talks about some of the uh post-release revisionism where actually people have kind of like started to come around because because more recent Halo is such dog [ __ ] that people are like you know what maybe Halo 4 wasn't that bad that like that is a thing that people have tried to push as a narrative. I almost think Halo 4 is more uh acceptable to like now than it was like the year after it came out. >> Well, I feel I feel like you can draw the line in multiple places cuz like with Halo 4, it's just like the start of a new trilogy. So, it's just like how we're getting off on this >> like foot of a new trilogy. >> And then like Halo 5 is seen as like the Empire Strikes Back of Halo where it's like the middle point and then Halo Infinite is seen as like you know this is how you end the trilogy. So like how does that pay off? And not very well as it turns out. >> I mean what what does it even mean to say it ended a trilogy when it abandons it just abandons a lot of the plot >> there? there is no cohesiveness between the three 343 games, the the the 343 trilogy, so to speak. So, it's like, >> well, yeah, that it's um >> I think that's explained by the perpetual struggle of 343 that is present even in this game. Halo 4, like I said, they were so confident in what they were doing. And yet, at the same time, they made a game that was very much chasing Call of Duty. The fact that you had loadouts in Halo multiplayer is insane. Um, and then with Halo, they were a little less confident, but they still had a lot of that ego because, oh, Halo 4 was so great and it was so wellreceived, but they were clearly chasing trends, jetpacks, and all that [ __ ] And then with Halo Infinite, that's like, oh [ __ ] we like actually need to try and appease the fans, but we don't really have that much respect for whatever it is that they want. Um, so, you know, so we'll sort of move in that direction. And then in the case of this, this is very much Jesus Christ, can you please like what we have made, but also [ __ ] you and [ __ ] that original game. We can do it better. It's um it's like this ego problem that they have as a studio is it's unshakable. >> Um it's the reason I I don't want any more Halo games. I guess >> quite the happening in that poll. There's a lot of people who are saying Halo as a franchise needs to die, which >> that's also something Bunker Dweller came up with, but it's something that I agree with. This franchise needs to be retired, >> if only because it might be the best thing to happen to it. If like in 10 years they finally decide to revisit it, see if they can make it work again, they'll get new people to work on it. Maybe they'll have the right approach this time. It's Microsoft. They won't. But maybe Microsoft will sell the IP and then somebody competent will get it. But it's still better than just like trudging along and letting these necromancers molest it every couple years. >> Yeah. >> Oh, and maybe that's another thing to add to the equation of it being their worst game is that it is one of the worst value propositions like ever. Uh, >> you know what? You know what? If that's your logic, I will 100% agree. The the $50 for a campaign mode and a shitty remix mode. Yeah, no multiplayer, no firefight, no bundled in multiplayer maps from a better Halo game. And and bear in mind that if you pre-ordered it so that you could play it early and get all those wonderful skins, that was an extra I want to say in America an extra $20, but here it was like 12 bucks. >> Well, I just I do want to emphasize it's just nuts to me. The whole game you're playing in this game is a game that they copied from another game that was complete and great and they couldn't get it right. Also, they copied parts from Halo Reach and Halo 3 and somehow messed up a lot of that when they >> copying someone else's homework and you you [ __ ] it up. How did you [ __ ] up so hard? Tremendous >> incompetence. Understand what the home what the answers to the homework was. And so like they don't know the form of >> It's kind of like there's a Futurama scene where he's copying the monkeyy's homework and he draws a banana and he like Fry doesn't even understand why the monkey was doodling a banana. He just thinks that's the answer. >> Yeah. And and also something that's probably worth noting in terms of another thing that's working against this game for me is that we have in the prequel levels Halo Studios as a new studio making a statement on the kind of new content that you can expect from them and it is dire. It is it is unbelievably bad. >> Yeah. Well, if you >> It's not even a new statement. That's exactly how they make all of their like linear levels. It's exactly that way in Halo Infinite, >> in five and four. It shouldn't surprise anybody that they are dog [ __ ] at making new content. >> Imagine being someone who had zero context and came into simply campaign evolved. That's all you played. And you'd be like, I mean, this is somewhat applicable to Platoon actually. Like, oh wow, a space section with all kinds of ships and mechanics and what I'm playing it for what 20 minutes and that's it. I yeah I wish we had somebody on this panel who we endeavored to try to get them to do that to just have only played campaign evolved to get their input because I am fascinated what someone who experienced it that way thinks of this franchise because like it is an insane choice in any video game. You'd think like, shouldn't there be like a whole space level or a space like two space levels and then a space combat like mode where you can mess around and you' be like no. Cuz the first thought I had when it was in it was like so where's this taken from then? Where did they snatch this from? Cuz there's no way they made this just >> that you can fly you can mod reach to fly that vehicle that's in that mode. >> To be clear though, I am quite happy we did not get any more space combat in this game. >> It was so [ __ ] >> I have played all the Rogue Squadron games. They're a lot of fun. We know how to do this and this game doesn't. >> Reach doesn't have a terrible sequence, but it is definitely contentious. That long night of solid sequence where you fly around. This is a terrible terrible imitation of what was already a contentious idea. >> Yeah. I I enjoy on screen cuz we didn't even talk about this how they changed the uh taking down the pulse generators from walking into it and then losing to justing three little things on the outside. I compare it to uh Ace Combat where like before you even start the mission, you have like an equipment load out. You can like gear your plane with different like like primary and secondary weapons and then during the course of the mission, there's things that happen where it's like there's a cutscene and then the objective changes like compared to what your initial briefing was. It's just like now the objective is this. you got to go do this thing and eliminate all these things. And then there's like weather like uh there there's things with weather that like change what your initial idea of the mission was going to be and then it's just like if you go into the clouds it's it starts like raining and stuff and then you got to get out of the clouds to get out of it. Like there's there's none of that in this. All it is is just like now like you you you see the the initial threat. I mean, the initial minutes of like the of this mission in this game was just like, okay, I like the scale and the 360deree nature of this, but then that quickly dissipates and then it becomes really boring where it's just like I'll just shoot all the things on screen, I guess, and then you just go to the next thing and then it and then it's just shoot all the things on the screen again and then again and then it's done. >> It's boring. Yeah, that that space sequence was atrocious among all of the like aerial combat levels that exist in the Halo franchise. It's up there. Although I think the Flappy Birds Halo 4 space sequence is probably worse. >> Sounds great. What a >> It's funny though. >> Out of those selection, uh, Patrician, how do you rank four, five, and evolved? >> Uh, and Infinite. Well, I assume Infinite is the best from what I'm seeing. >> I would say five for Campaign Evolved and Infinite. Infinite is a weird one because I'm not supposed to like it. I like it for a reason beyond it being Halo. I am a fan of like weird janky openw world games. And that's the appeal of Infinite to me is like it is a weird openw world unnecessary janky game. I don't like it as a Halo game, but I like it as like a weird experiment in that front. Um, but yeah, I mean the the poll which I suppose can draw it to a close. We got 40% on campaign evolved I think. >> Yeah. And and then interestingly 30 31% on Halo 5. >> I think there's a recency bias to that. I think if you give it time people will mellow out on campaign evolve where it will still be atrocious but there's no way that like it's overwhelmingly going to be considered the worst. >> I simultaneously agree and disagree. I agree. It probably is a recency bias. I don't know that it'll go away. I think people will hate this forever. >> Yes, but they hate all of the 343 games forever. >> Yeah, but this one is a is a is a big old dick in the ass of >> slap in the face. >> It's it is just a dick in the ass, >> you know. I mean, at the end of the day, it's it's not a because as much as I say that, I I assume you probably feel the same way, Patrician. It's like I don't I'm not that interested in ranking them because it's just been a horrible tenure and it needs to come to an end. >> Yes. >> You know, >> if you want to say Evolved is the worst so that people won't buy it on my recommendation, then sure, I will lie and say that I think the campaign evolved is the worst. Don't buy this [ __ ] so that they go out of business. If that's what it takes, I will [ __ ] grit my teeth and lie. But if you're forcing me at gunpoint to rank it, that's how I'd rank it. >> Mhm. Well, we said near the beginning, right, that there's a there's an angle here that needs to be appreciated. I guess that this game is functionally entertaining and engaging at its best when things aren't falling the [ __ ] apart, but it is usually tied to all the things it's stolen essentially. >> Mhm. So, I feel like they earn no points for that. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> it's just you miraculously the original brilliance of the of the original game is able to sort of, you know, uh peer through It reminds me of uh watching Daniel Craig play Bond. When you play the levels in this game and you enjoy any of the architecture, you're like, "Yeah, this is but this is recreated by people who don't even know why they would have this architecture, why they would have this level design." People >> The only reason they didn't change this is because they they're too scared to change anything at this point because their their ego is um shattered but not fully gone. >> Yeah. And I just I'm sorry. I just picture them smuggly laughing at you when you play these levels being like, "Oh, you like this?" Okay. All right. Yeah. Good for you. >> No, spite is a common conspiracy theory for the reason for designs because it often comes off as spiteful why a lot of 343 decisions are the way they are where it's like, "Oh, we're going to put markers on the stealth elites." That feels like spite. I don't think it's incompetence. I don't think it's underestimating Oh, hello. Oh dear. I mean, it must be me if everyone else is quiet. Is Discord chat? Are we still live? It looks like we're still live. You can still hear me. They got him. I think they got me, chat. >> How's that? >> Oh, hello. >> Back. Yeah, I think we're back. >> I think Discord got dropped. Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh >> no, I I think I think that's fair. That the whole thing of like it feels like a lot of it is spite, which which again it's just I will say it's been cuz you know that there's been talk of layoffs happening and it's like oh man that's like tragic and it's like I mean these games are just horrible. Like >> it's a [ __ ] video game equivalent of food poisoning. So why do I care? You can't cook. like >> but you need to feel bad that they're going to lose their jobs. >> They're incredibly well- paid jobs in like in this delivering this product that they don't even seem to like much or the people who enjoy it. Like I don't know. >> I mean, yeah, we could pay people who actually like Halo to make Halo games and then that way there's still game devs that are employed. We don't have to pay these people. >> Yeah. Like it's just, you know, like if if there was some poor guy who really wanted to make a great Halo game, but like whoever was in charge or, you know, the key decision makers made that impossible. And this is a dude who absolutely knows what's up. He knows what makes these games great. He could deliver something awesome, but the the ecosystem doesn't allow it. That is really unfortunate. Um, but like this can't continue. Like you can't just keep failing over and over and over and over and over again with the Halo series and like expect that that's something you should that should just continue to happen indefinitely. >> I think over now that the now that Phil Spencer and Sarah Bond and Matt Booty are kind of out at the company and someone else is in charge. Uh, I think that the the era of the welfare for devs of you can get 25,000 concurrent players on Steam and that's considered a success. Uh, I think that time period is over. >> I mean, it has to be like at this point the amount of money that Microsoft spends for the limited impact that I've seen. By the way, it looks like the numbers for Gears of Wars like I don't know what good numbers would be considered, but I think it's at like 15,000 players right now for the beta. I don't know about that. You know, that's not great, is it? >> I assume how accessible the beta is. Is it >> I think you get it from pre-ord which maybe that influences things. So maybe that I'm not speaking to his quality. >> Actually, that that's a pretty bad sign because that sounds like it's hitting the 30k curse that uh all the straight to game pass games get hit with. >> Well, yeah. And then uh and then there's that as well. But but yeah, like it's however the thing is is that unfortunately my expectation is that um Halo Studios 343 Industries will never end. And the reason why I think that's the case is because I think that Microsoft believes perhaps not even totally erroneously as much as creatively I find it kind of bankrupt to just keep it going forever that um Halo is like a necessary franchise for them. It needs to continue and if it's going to continue it's going to be made by a first party studio. So, what would be gained from closing Halo Studios and then just founding a new first party studio that's going to have the task of making Halo games forever? Like, I imagine there'd be no attitude of, "Well, yeah, but maybe there's something to be gained from just close that studio, build a new one, new company culture, new foundations, go from there." They'd just be like, "Dude, we're just why wouldn't we just like keep trying to make like more Halo games with the studio that we already have?" the other [ __ ] companies that Microsoft owns that makes first person shooters then. >> Well, yeah, but they I mean ID just got a whole bunch of people fired as well. >> I know that's the tactic of Blender. >> In fairness, Dark Ages didn't do well anyways. So, >> well, no, that that's the truth is that as much as people like, ah man, Microsoft shutting. It's like, dude, how many of you How many of you bought the latest Dishonored uh like the the latest arcane game? >> How many people did? How many people bought Death Loop? Not many people bought >> Hang on. You're messing up here. The most recent uh arcane game was Redfall. >> Oh god. Sorry. I to Yes, you're right. How many people bought Redfall? Yes. Um it's the same for how many people bought Hellblade? >> How many people in here have played The Outer Worlds 2? >> Yeah, exactly. Or or what was the other one that they did? >> About anybody in here about >> N Xbox. And this also includes the Bethesda acquisitions as well. I mean, [ __ ] even Call of Duty was selling less. Black Ops I can keep going. Anybody in here? Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones. >> That was a great Oh, that was a great game. Yeah, that was a great game. Yeah, that was such a great game. All right. Can you tell me anything about it? >> Can you name the most recent Starfield DLC? >> Retribution. >> You guess the point is being made. It can't persist. You can't persist with massive multi-billion dollar acquisitions, hundreds of millions of dollars getting funneled into games that have no audience. That is untenable. That is insane that it's even happened for this long. >> Like obvious change. >> I What happened was Phil Spencer realized that he was no longer able to run a company that uh was able to sell games. So he came up with a business model where you can make money without selling games, which is what Game Pass is. And he wrote on the notion of listen, it's going to take a few years to find out if games as a streaming service is going to work out as an idea. Turns out it really didn't. It's not it. The business model inherently didn't make sense. They probably lost billions of dollars on sales to it. And uh eventually they had to let him go because the main organization of Microsoft themselves are struggling with the how deep into co-pilot they went into. >> Yeah. And you know nextgen I guess there's an opportunity for them there because it's not like Sony's in a particularly great position where they have to spend like $400 million on single player games that they can't monetize in any way because they built a reputation for single player games that they can't make money off of post point of sale. Hence why it shouldn't be surprising that they've decided to go for this disc problem by saying no more discs for you. Like they built a reputation where they can't do the kind of monetization. They tried. They really want to do live service but Sony cultivated a reputation over the last generation. PlayStation 4 generation is we make the single player games where you buy it once and that's it. And that is not profitable when your games cost $400 million. So yeah, you know, it's um it's it's really quite a tumultuous time for everybody except Nintendo. I guess they're just sort of chilling and vibing. >> They're just happy nobody's paying attention to them this month. >> No, that's right. Everybody's more obsessed with what's going on with Sony right now. And um which by the way, guys, when we find out when Grand Theft Auto 6 comes out and sells 30 million copies, >> um join the black pill of boycots never work. I >> I was going to say exactly. I was going to pivot this into a GTA 6 thing of like that's what's next, guys. That's what's next on the docket. That's what's going to determine the next 10 years of the where this industry goes. >> It sure is. >> And it's up to the Chuds to sabotage that game with like culture war nonsense. And even then, like >> the p the power of just people there are people who bought PlayStation fives like as soon as it came out years ago to play that game. So, it's >> I got to say though, >> I will say as much as there have been things that have made me concerned about that, the fact that it's been eight years since Red Dead Redemption 2, it's been over a decade since Grand Theft Auto 5, it's been nearly 20 years since Grand Theft Auto 4, you know, everything about GTA Online and everything. The fact that they don't want to make any, you know, sequels for their other franchises anymore. I don't think anything has blackpilled me quite so much on Grand Theft Auto 6 as the fact that oh hey you got to subscribe to Netflix to watch the next trailer. I that is like that blows my that is so disheartening as and it's like yeah but it's got to be on YouTube 6 hours later. It's like dude that's crazy that they even Netflix to watch a trailer. >> Oh I love how everything's just getting better and better isn't it? everything. I saw someone in chat saying like just you wait until one you don't know that AI is in everything and two it's just going to be spamming with ads like AI integration that just has sponsorships that are like >> sort of slipped in subtly you know like the [ __ ] with uh when an AI is convincing some poor [ __ ] to kill himself. It'll also be like use this brand knife and be like oh wow it's just uh >> it looks like a few of you guys don't know about that. So, the next the extended look at Grand Theft Auto 6 is happening at the end of the month and that is releasing first on Netflix for 6 hours uh ahead of a release on YouTube. >> Okay, that that's not as bad. I was expecting like 90 second trailer is so it's going to be like a >> This is going to be like a first look at gameplay. I expect it's going to be like at least 20 minutes like a featureette. >> It's not as dystopic as as I believed. >> I think it's dystopian enough. That's the kind of thing that would be released on YouTube for free, but they're expecting that people are going to sign up for Netflix to watch it, and they will. >> Yeah. >> Well, sure. But I mean, if they do that, that's kind of the I'm going to declare an interest because Take Two pays part of my salary. But, um, it's still like there is a there is a reason to hope. This is the insanely optimistic take. GTA makes a [ __ ] ton of money. It's only because GTA makes a [ __ ] ton of money that a lot of other studios are able to experiment with things that are not GTA. So there is an argument that if you want to see more maybe more smaller budget games or new games, new franchises, you do actually need these big tenpole staple things to be successful because where else is the money coming from? It's why Microsoft being in a really parish state is not good for the industry. As satisfying as it is to see Halo fail, it's not good because you're probably going to get fewer and worse games than you would otherwise have got. fewer games. >> That's potentially the way forward. >> Well, the way forward is you just there's a double A sector already that's growing and it's going to be independent of the modern publisher paradigm. But it's like these companies got way too greedy in the 2010s and now they're reaping what they've seown by like disinteresting gamers to the point that like people would rather just like get addicted to porn and gambling than play video games. There used to be porn and gambling in my video games. >> They had it all in their hands. >> Although, I will say, this is a sidebar. I appreciate you uh saying that you have a conflict of interest. I was supposed to call you out over a sponsorship you had because I was watching someone else's video that had the same sponsor. So, >> I feel like you've you've solved that for me. >> Cool. Oh, no. I have many other conflicts of interest, too. But yeah, >> the I will say cuz it it it to me the Grand Theft Auto thing I think it is is just um it's it it it's uh it's almost like just run it down a little bit or almost like boil it down to what's happening which is there is so much hype for Grand Theft Auto 6 that releasing a trailer exclusively on Netflix for even 6 hours will be a boon to Netflix as a as a platform. Like for a for a trailer that under every normal circumstance ever would be released on YouTube for free because it's a [ __ ] ad. Like whatever this is going to be, it's an ad that that's Netflix just being the Microsoft of the streaming world in terms of like they're just Yeah. They're retards. They'll benefit from it. >> Yeah. So, you know, >> well, I mean, they're capitalizing on things that people haven't seen before. And we like people haven't seen gameplay of GTA 6 yet. And this is this is what they're unveiling. This is the big reveal. It's like we're going to see first gameplay of this. I think they've confirmed that, too. That's not just me hypothesizing. >> Yeah. >> Yep. And and there will be many many I I say this because of cuz someone would be like, well, everybody's got Netflix. It's like, well, yes, but also no. Not everybody does have Netflix. >> They will after they have not had access to it in over a decade. >> What do people What do people do after they've watched that? Oh, we've signed up for Netflix for 30 seconds. >> So maybe they'll watch uh >> Stranger Things season 5 cancel their subscription. But uh yeah, you know, it's um yeah, Grim Grim Times is sort of the the point that's sort of the overarching point here. Um but hey, Wolverine is is the next major new game release if I'm not mistaken. Right. >> What's funny though is like foreshadowing for next week, all of the [ __ ] we've just gone through over the course of these eight and a half hours, and we're going to be fighting people who joyously slip the big old peen of this game. Love it. >> I'm surprised we didn't see them. >> A lot of shade at fans of Halo. >> I'm not sure there's enough of those people left to overpower the number of people that you have watching these. I'm not kidding when I say that your programming is probably more popular than Halo at this point. >> No, Halo's dead. It is a dead series. Um, whatever whatever footprint it had. You know, it used to be one of the biggest things ever. Halo 3 was the biggest entertainment launch of all time until Grand Theft Auto 4 came out a few months later, but still um it was huge to at this point. To say that it's like subcultural is not even correct. It is an increasingly or an increasingly shrinking and insular fan base um that is detached, you know, with every passing year becomes more and more detached from whatever, you know, Halo was as a a sort of a cultural phenomenon. No way GTA 4 beat Halo 3. It absolutely did. It made more money. Of course it did. It's [ __ ] Grand Theft Auto. Grand Theft Auto 4 was the biggest entertainment launch in history at the time that it came out. And then it was Halo uh then it was Grand Theft Auto 5 and then it's forever been Rockstar since then. >> When uh when Wolverine again? >> Wolverine is the 15th of September. So it's about a month away. >> And then just in time for my birthday. I can't wait. October 1st is the early release for Gears of War. Yeah. And then uh and then that's then nothing basically. Well, no. Call of Duty I think comes out in October as well. Modern Warfare 4. Wow. >> Maybe they won't have a bad year this year. >> Uh maybe. I'm not sure. And then and then yeah, it's Grand Theft Auto. And then everything starts up again next year. God of War is in February, right? >> Oh man. >> Yeah. Written by Alan Bees. Call of Duty. >> Call of Duty is a [ __ ] roach franchise that refuses to die. This is the first time that they've >> that they have like escaped death. >> Yeah. I mean, Infinite Warfare, they they sort of managed to pull through. And uh Black Ops 7 will not be the end either. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Except this one you have to pay for. This one is an on game pass cuz they learned their lesson which is they lost hundreds of millions of dollars from ago. >> I legitimately wonder how much money that like stuff like Starfield lost to Game Pass. >> I think it's safe to say millions for sure at least. >> No, millions for sure. I have seen like projections that are in the hundreds of millions of range. >> I could believe it. God, >> I just love how so many people in charge make such wonderfully, brilliantly catastrophic decisions that no one could possibly have seen coming. And that so many of them still have jobs >> because there was such a strong element of gaslighting in 2023 surrounding it. I mean, the the Game Pass cope at that time was just insane. And so, like, you could call it out, nobody was listening. There was a time period when people were willing to give Starfield the benefit of the doubt and like defend it against Mark Kern when he said like the main menu uh is a sign that the game's going to be rushed. Everybody was [ __ ] defending Starfield at that point. There was a DSP clip of him saying that after Starfield comes out, nobody's going to even remember the name Balders Gate 3. That took me a while to answer. So just that's funny. >> Well, >> that's uh I suppose that concludes uh at least this chapter of the adventure. >> You can call it the first half because >> yeah, >> as you could probably gather, chat, it's been interesting to schedule everything considering we're actually running out of episodes before the anniversary kicks in. >> Halo, it just it just burst into the room and it yelled at us. We were like, "Okay, fine." Jesus. Even though Spider-Man was like, I'm also here, by the way. >> So, uh, yeah, we got we got a round two next week. It's not over. It's somehow Halo returns. But, uh, I think I think I think that was that was a good stream for now. Eight and a half hours. Nice and short. It's nice and sweet. So, >> but um, before we go, of course, thank you so much for joining us, our wonderful cast, guests, all the the the panel and the chat, of course. I uh I figure uh you know you guys probably are fully aware of where Rags is at. He had to jump out but you know I was going to say he would uh uh be doing lots of different Halo thing. He did a playthrough fully on Legendary with uh Patrician and Bunker Bunkman I believe there. Yes. >> Yeah. Um so that's available if you guys want to check it out. Um but also Patrician where can they find you and what are you up to? >> Uh presently I'm still working on Fallout. Um, and I did want to apologize for all the interruptions and what have you. It's hard to get a word in edge-wise here. >> Oh, I mean that's that's totally normal. And there's a bit of connection things I think going on cuz everybody was very we we anticipated uh Do you know there was another two people that were supposed to be here today, but they dropped out for different reasons, like different interruptions. >> I saw it. >> So, uh, you know, it it works out because if there' been even more. Um, we wanted to get everybody who would have [ __ ] tons to say about this, but then obviously that means that there's going to be uh interruptions. That's totally fine and totally all good. But yes, I've been uh streaming like Xbox era games kind of leading up to this anyways, but uh over on my channel Pleb TV where I I got a CRT and I show people what uh games used to look like on that old technology. Cool. you doing any more um Halo streaming maybe or >> uh I'm hoping this is it. I I'm feeling priv private sessions he uh decided he thoroughly was going to win this entire thing by not playing and I feel he was right on that on that front. So if I have the option to get out of Are you asking campaign evolved or Halo in general? >> Well, I guess yeah, both just in case cuz like obviously this is a Halo episode never again. If I can uninstall it like now, then I probably will >> uh Halo in the future. Absolutely. Just because it's a it's a good game to stream anyways. >> Fair enough. Uh John, how about you, sir? Uh, I've been I think well I streamed Halo Campaign Evolved like I I took a break from streaming and I came back with that and now I'm trying to make a video with the halfass machinima mode that they advertised. Like they took away they took away theater mode but they brought back machinima mode which is [ __ ] awful. Um I I I could have talked a bit about that but whatever. I don't think it's really worth talking about. >> Go off, please. I need No, now that you brought it up, I need to hear it said. >> I don't think enough people give a [ __ ] I think Muller wants to wind down. So, I I like this is this is a whole thing, but like it's just terrible. The machinima like the the thing with theater mode with like making videos and like they they use this as a selling point by the way on social media. The the official Xbox Halo account. They're like, "Hey, you can make your own little videos like Retro versus Blue or whatever." And um it's it it doesn't come anywhere close to the same functionality. The key feature with theater mode being that you could pause and rewind the action. So then you could predict where the action was going to occur and then you could position the camera appropriately and then you could rewind the action and let the action play out from that camera angle. You can't do that anymore. I mean, it even goes as far as to like like there there are certain events that won't occur unless the active camera is the one within Chief's helmet. So like you can like like activate third the the free camera mode and position the camera somewhere and then like a campaign scripted event won't occur until you return the camera perspective back to Chief and then the thing will play out like the initial like right at the beginning for example where the the door explodes in the NPC's face and then you're meant to be like oh [ __ ] I got to go jump jump over these pipes and then go down this corridor like that won't happen until the the active camera is is in the player's um perspective. So like the there's a whole slew of issues with the with the camera mode they've introduced with this. like as a filmmaking tool. Like I understand that they don't they I don't expect them to cater to filmmakers with this game like as as I've done with with so long for so long, but like if you take away theater mode and all its functionality and then throw in a simple free camera and then advertise that on social media as a machinima mode, I personally I find that so [ __ ] insulting. But like not everybody is gonna feel the same way I do about that and it's like whatever. But like I it's just it's just such a [ __ ] joke to me. >> I disagree. If you're an old school Halo fan, Machinima was a big part of why the franchise was successful in the first place. And it's just disgraceful that they don't even want to try to cater to that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, man. >> Well, I mean, it's been it's been a staple since um 2007 with Halo 3 >> with Forge mode and theater mode. That was the the introduction of those and then they just decided to do away with those. >> It just it meant that it kept the game on people's minds because you had a whole bunch of fans that were making stuff that was based on Halo, you know. >> I mean, to be to be absolutely clear, I was way more familiar with Army and the Chief than Halo lore. >> I I I've had some people tell me that I understand Halo better than [ __ ] the the creators of the Halo show did. And uh I get it and it's like >> I I I what's what really makes me sad is that like the the introduction of theater mode was such a great thing to introduce for amateur filmmakers or people like people who were just interested in film making but didn't want to like take the full step into like creating an actual live action production with a crew like they could do it in video games like the the Halo systems in in regard to theater mode like That that was such an accessible way of playing around with that. And now they've taken away they've taken away that entirely and thrown in a simple free camera, which is the basic the most basic [ __ ] thing that you can throw into a video game in terms of game design. Like a a free roaming camera is one of the basic the most basic units of game design. It's hilarious, right? cuz you got to implement that like early on to be able to fly around and look at what it is you're building. And given given what they've taken away and like that very simple thing they've introduced and calling that a a method of making films is just like it's it's so ridiculous to me. >> I don't know what else to say. >> Yeah. Well, uh, they can find you on your channel talking about some of these. >> They can find me. I'm make I'm make I'm trying to make a terrible video with it. I mean, the fil the film making system is so [ __ ] awful. So, I was just like, okay, well, I guess I'll just make an awful video with it. And I'm I'm trying to make a a video with like because one of the things I found that they allowed you to do was you can play back the cutscenes with the dialogue and the music mixed to zero. So you can just get the cutscenes with like just sound design and that's it. And I'm gonna I'm using that to make a very crude video. And I'm going to splice that with what I can accomplish using the the free camera mode. And I'm going to try and make a spoof of like the of like the basic the original Halo story basically in a very stupid way. So that that's what I'm working on. And uh yeah, I don't know what else to say. That's what I'm working on. and >> whatever. >> I don't know. Yeah. >> Uh, random. How about you, buddy? >> Hello. Um, yeah. Thank you for having me. I don't I do kind of regret playing this game. Um, but it did give me the opportunity to play Cursed Halo, which was fun. Um, >> yeah. Yeah. Next um next Friday or this coming Friday now I guess 6 days time I'm releasing my video on Hasbin Hotel season 2. >> Oh >> um it's about twice as long as the first one because it's about twice as bad as the first one uh if that was even remotely possible. Um, yeah. And then after that, I don't know. There will probably be something else before Rings of Power in November, but obviously I will be doing that and switching into turbocharge mode when when November hits. >> It is [ __ ] nonstop this year. Going to be crazy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'll just take a month off. I don't know. I don't think I will, but I might. >> Well, thanks, of course, for coming. Platoon Fringy. How about you fellas? >> The month off sounds really amazing, but that's not going to happen for the next two years. So, um, next Odyssey part, whatever the [ __ ] is due out at some point this week, maybe. Probably. Yes. Spider-Man that'll follow. It'll actually be longer than Maul is, which will be what a strange experience this is going to be. But I was trying to keep >> You liked Spider-Man, didn't you? You loved it. Admit it. >> I did. It was an amazing movie. And you were completely wrong. All of your criticisms are bad. You're a heater. You're a judge. You You suck. >> And I'm going to tell you as much in this video at great length. So, that should be out next weekend. And at some point, I would like to carry on playing more Halo cuz I like the first one a lot. >> So, I'm going to try and stream Halo 2 at some point, but I don't know when exactly. But, um, yeah, that's the immediate future. >> That's the best outcome of campaign evolved I've heard yet. >> Yeah. Well, >> uh, I'm just working, but at some point I will also be continuing my adventure through Halo on Legendary. So, Halo 2 Legendary will be happening at some point. I'm not exactly sure when, but uh, we'll continue with that. But otherwise, I'm I'm just working. >> We are in >> Halo TV show video. >> Yeah, I was crazy Haley TV Haley Halo TV show mode. Uh, not H. God damn it. We're in crazy Halo mode is what I'm trying to say. eventually. I think he might be melted at this point. >> The Halo TV episode for episode 4, which is the Fall of Reach, which is the highest rated episode of the show on IMDb. It's got a higher rating on IMDb than um than I think Saving Private Ryan. >> So, >> I'm not going to look that up. I'll just believe you. So, to be clear, right, of everyone that you've you've seen talking about Halo today, all of them, I I believe have like full playthroughs of the of I I could say campaign and probably combat available >> and some of them on Legendary fully available now. You can check them all out. There will be a super cut coming, but in the meantime, you obviously have this episode that was [ __ ] nearly 9 hours. And then you've had episodes of the Halo TV show starring uh Patrician and Mark Cyborg with us going through uh Were you surprised that it's now they're coming out compared to when >> I I was a bit I was like, "Holy [ __ ] I recorded this like two years ago. >> It's a blast from the past." But yes, beautifully edited by Fringy. Check them out. They're all available. And you know, next week we're doing some more Halo and they'll still be coming out and then I guess it'll start to settle down and we can leave the realm of Halo until they ruin it again in theory anyway. Maybe they won't. Maybe they won't be allowed to. That would be nice. >> Look, I am confident. I I'm trusting the plan here. The Halo TV show against all odds was able to be cancelled. That tells me that anything is possible. True. You >> just have to believe. Yeah. >> Um and yeah, I bringing Hell yes. I put out a Spider-Man video if you didn't know, Chad. It's a It's about 40 minutes, nice and short. >> I just didn't think it was very good, so I had a few criticisms. Plenty of praise in that video, too. So, don't worry. Very balanced. That's that's what I've heard. >> That's enough. >> Need a bit more praise, but >> more >> uh and then yeah, just everything you would expect. All the usual. Um my PC is is alive compared to the last time. Uh, obviously this episode functioned, as far as I can tell, pretty much perfectly. I don't want to jinx it since we're right at the end compared to uh what happened with Spider-Man, but uh it just means that for example, I'm not streaming at 60 fps anymore, which I think is of all things to have happen. That's okay. Nor is it 4K. It's we're drink we're bringing the stats down. We're going to get past the anniversary, which is the 22nd, and I need to be more definitive about that now because like that's coming. If you want to make time to be available and listen in for the whole thing, it's coming Saturday 22nd. It's I'm spending all my days prepping >> 5K or 4K. >> Mhm. But uh we're going to we're going to make sure that gets sort of nailed and then I will do definitive fixes for this PC to get me back up to mega full speed is the presumption. But I've already got things planned. I've shown Fringy some some edits that are coming. There's going to be some fun things on that anniversary. You've no idea. >> We're all very excited. And there'll be announcements, I think. I think all things considered, we should be able to to talk about some stuff that's coming up. It's going to be really, really fun. As well as unlocking a secret as to I mean, EAT Movies 100, what is it? What is it and when is it coming? We'll be able to talk about it on there probably. It's >> going to be fun to burn. >> But um yeah. Oh, yeah. And that'll be uh you know, this is no secret. It'll be the end of Batman Bat Batwoman season two. That's the last two episodes of the season, which uh kind of it's like the end of an era. It's kind of crazy, honestly. >> Um but yes, next week we're going to check out some uh some stuff relates to how good Halo Campaign Evolved is probably. Am I Am I missing anything? I think that's everything. >> I think that's all. >> Yeah. If there's more stuff, I'll let you know next time cuz I've forgotten it and that's just how things go. But thank you all so very much for joining us. We appreciate it. But for now, we're going to say good night. See you around. Yes. Byebye everybody. Byebye. Bye.