EFAP #397 - Spider-Man: Brand New Disaster Ft. Ned

spinning the >> When did you um >> when did you when did you beat Halo and Legendary? Was that yesterday or the day before? >> It was the 30th. So, two days ago. >> You know, it's it's funny. Uh it's uh if it was like cuz I know I know Maul has beaten it and I beat it uh Tuesday Tuesday Tuesday. Um, and I find that funny because it means that we would have completed it before the patch that fixed that the uh jackals when they fire a charge plasma shot that kills you instantly >> instead of just taking out your shields. >> My legendary run happened the day after that. That was a 20.2 gig patch for the What else did they do? Since then the patch. That's hilarious. >> Boy oh boy. I can just I can literally click right here and it shows uh yeah the the update here >> um download size. What's crazy is that it says July 29 update small update/patch notes. It is 20.2 gigs >> and it is uh yeah it's the July 29th update right here. Charge no longer kills players with full health and shields any difficulty. >> Yeah, it could be. when I played uh when I did uh the uh the Moore on legendary uh there were more enemies that it spawned in the um in the Warthog run and holy [ __ ] my PlayStation 5 could not handle it. >> Oh, was it chugging? >> Yeah, it was there. It was chugging more than it ever did. I cuz I um I had the issue where the frame rate for the enemies and objects in the world would drop. Uh, and this time it was just it was it was getting to the point where it's like, dude, I feel like the game's about to crash with how much it's freezing up. It was insane. >> I almost got I I feel like I almost got a crash or two when there was like a really really like the game would stop like it was loading but it kept going and going. But I can believe that your PS your PlayStation 5 was chugging because the game does not run well. >> Yeah, that I mean again I bought it on PlayStation 5 partially because it was a meme, but partially because I assumed it would be a lot more stable. Um, but uh, no, it it run it ran like [ __ ] The the Warthog run, it was it was horrible. The and and and it did the thing as well where I don't know what technique they try to use to make to ensure performance, but like where it looks like the whole screen had sandpaper rubbed all over it and you know like I don't know >> like the dresolution or something like raining thing that was happening all across everything in the game um because it was running so badly. Oh, by the way, guys, >> I haven't watched your play through yet. >> Oh, no. That that was specifically for parts where lots of stuff was happening cuz I can't handle that. And also, by the way, um on legendary, it is still pretty easy to just like run past a huge amount of encounters in that game. Uh you can run through, you can run through most of Silent Cographer, you can run through most of keys. It's uh it's really really easy. Not only is it easy, >> it was actually quite easy to run through like a lot of keys to sprint. >> A lot of the time it's just a better strategy. If you have to fight them outright, they might throw a grenade at you and kill you. Like a lot of the time it is just better to run past them. That is insane that you can run past them. For whatever reason, they really pro programmed the I I was very my my estimation of the game went down significantly with the legendary playthrough because it felt very lazily designed in terms of difficulty. How ult would spam grenades the [ __ ] out of you and how they would just throw clumps of elites at you in like rooms that are clearly not designed to have clumps of elites. >> Massive in truth and reconciliation. Yeah, let's put in a new room there and let's spawn like [ __ ] 10 elites and then put like a sniper jack. >> We should totally do an episode for Halo. I think we should do an episode. >> I know the room you're talking about. Yeah, >> that's true. >> Cuz they'll it very often times it would be like a room with five elites in it and then there would be a door and a corridor where you would be. And I noticed a pattern where so often you'd be in the corridor door chamber full of elites. And that was just like what you'd have to whittle down slowly but surely over many many many minutes of very dull and boring combat. I'm like, damn. I just I' I've seen this before. Why do you keep doing this? >> This is This is the preamble. I I figured I figured we could talk about something else briefly. You know, >> anything else when Spider-Man is coming out. Look at that. Look at that. Set it up. Set it up for you to to to bat it. You know, >> how could you talk about one of your franchises being ruined? >> He gets vindicated one of our franchises being ruined. >> Yes. >> He gets vindicated once per four years without like that meme becomes a reality. >> I mean, I I guess it will be more frequent now because it's going to make $900 million. >> Well, >> yeah. 92 billion. So that's, you know, I it's kind of is a little bit crazy that they took this long to but yeah, $900 million opening weekend. Um I was I mentioned it before we started, but um more people have watched Spider-Man in America on its first day than watched Supergirl anywhere in the world at any point at all since it's existed. Um >> I think there's an easy way for you to say that. You just say in total, right? [laughter] Just just say total. >> Yeah. If Spider-Man made more money on its first day in the United States of America, not including worldwide, on its first day, than Supergirl made at all, period. >> And the minutes like how many minutes it have to be out before it beat uh Super >> uh yeah, maybe like like an hour, I'm assuming, which um [laughter] >> minutes. It feels so weird seeing people laugh cuz at this point I assume that when I go on Twitter and I see someone talk about the movie it's like dude there's like a 50-50 chance you haven't seen that movie while talking about it. >> There's just no way. There's no way with the amount of like engagement that some of these posts are able to farm that it reflects at all an audience that actually exists. It's just hilarious. But I mean, yeah. No, we're talking about Spider-Man. >> People will always show up for Spider-Man [clears throat] is is certainly what I've learned. >> You can tell how impressed we are by how much we want to talk about it. >> He's so >> No, I mean, no, there's there's a Hey, look. All right. You can't give the game away. Okay. [laughter] >> Do it right now. So, who knows what any of us think about Spider-Man. >> I think I love it. >> We are so passionate about it. I love it. >> Yeah. Actually, Nuts and I, we fought really hard before we we behind the scenes. We we thought it was we thought it was really good. We love the movie. So, we were really really kind of opposed to Mer kind of doing it and Platoon was sort of 50/50. He didn't want to rock the boat. >> Um but Mer really really >> What I want to know is actually >> um >> Hey, fellas in chat. What do you tell us what you think of the movie now? I want to see I want to see [laughter] He wants a record Frozen in Time. >> Yeah, a little bit. I want to see how how everybody feels about the movie. >> The chat host the episode this time. >> Timeless classic. >> Let's see it scroll by. Um, it's average. >> It's a real It's a real uh It's a real mix there, isn't it? >> It's four out of 10. >> No, I'm just reading 10 out of 10 everywhere. It's like everyone loves it. >> Emoji. >> No, it's it's a it's a it's a real mix there. I'm seeing a I'm seeing a real mix of uh perspectives here. >> It was all right. Big issues. >> There there is a certain mean that I that I'm already noticing which is interesting. But yeah, no, it's uh it's uh it's a real mixture. >> In my head already won like 10 Academy Awards. What are you talking about? >> Yes. >> Also, okay. Um, there probably is something wrong with my PC because everything is just laggy. I hope if someone stream >> uh I I can tolerate it as long as it's not happening cuz like my my preview is laggy. But is it laggy on stream? >> Yes. Yeah, >> it is. Okay. >> Yeah, >> a restart. I probably should have restarted then. I thought I'd fixed it. >> Yeah, >> I I Your voice >> as well. >> Yeah, your voice was it was okay for mostly, but then it would do a little >> I have no idea what would be causing this. >> Even my task manager is reporting some weird [ __ ] to me. Well, like >> saying that 99% of my CPU is being used, but the >> there isn't anything that's that's costing it like listed. >> So, something's wrong. >> [ __ ] it's on a deathbed. What do you mean? It's like >> hates to be stabbed. It's bad when Taskmaster of all things stabs you in the back. Like, I trusted you. >> You were supposed to be on my side. [laughter and clears throat] >> You You were the chosen one. >> Um, yeah. As a computer science bachelor, I'm telling you, your computer is doing terribly right now. >> As a guy, I think I'm telling you, you should restart now because we're going to be here a while. There's a lot of things to say about this incredible movie that I and Nutsa loved and Platoon was 50/50 on and you two hated. Um, so if you're going to restart, do it now before we really get underway. >> I'm just going to I'm just going to say like I mean restart it. Let's restart it. Yeah. I mean, we have to do >> But before you do that, do you track the programs that are using up your CPU? There's like percentages. >> Yes, but for some reason right now they're all being listed as zeros like the something's wrong. >> Oh. Oh. Oh, it's even worse than I [laughter] thought. Okay. >> Um, so, okay, I'll have to restart. Hope that solves the problem. So, we'll be back. I think as long as I don't end stream on YouTube's end, it stays going until I restore it. So, >> I think so. Yeah, as long as you're in coder, if if you like if you're in coder or whatever, you're it crashes the like your stream labs or whatever you use in OBS. If that crashes, but the YouTube side stays up, I think you're good to restart it, I think. >> Yeah, restart must help. If not, >> don't quote me like the people in chat will be quoted who gave this movie whatever score they gave it for no reason. >> Good god. I was just trying to like just save something on Microsoft Word was where I could store some stuff and it just said connecting to the server which I've never seen on Microsoft Word before. >> Microsoft Word connecting [laughter] to the server. Oh yeah, great. My word processor needs to connect to servers. Awesome. >> Um, >> what is Spider-Man's best called? Sorry. Yeah. Go go go go. Eevee >> that woman cursed you probably. Not woman, not human eyes. AI just >> Yeah. >> was OBS causing it. Maybe >> did the exact same thing for a second time. Now apparently it worked. So there's that. >> I love it when you do that. >> Okay, we are alive. >> Yes. >> So in conclusion, Spider-Man was a really good film. >> I love that. Platoon actually came around. He was 50/50, but we had a whileing his PC. Yeah. And uh >> I think Nuts and I think we got him. I think we wore him down. >> Um but no, it's Well, tell me chat, how uh how do I come across? Am I laggy as [ __ ] Cuz if that's the case, then we're going to have to um do a strategy of me talking as little as possible for this stream because I have no idea how to solve it without uh doing a lot of troubleshooting. >> You sound good for us, so we'll Well, the thing is it sounds fine, but like the screen is [ __ ] lagging a whole bunch and it keeps buffering. >> It's your PC. >> Well, yeah. >> Yeah, >> but the problem is we don't know anything further than that. So, >> we'll call it a stylistic choice. >> Uh, >> I mean, I don't know. I'm I'm like really I feel like it should essentially be figured out. I don't know what else I can try that's going to be quick. And uh Oh man, I don't know what's wrong. >> Especially if it keeps >> Yeah, cuz like that screen it is like intensely [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> lag. Like insanely any visuals it would be putting up would like look like [ __ ] >> Mhm. >> Is your task manager back up to 100%. >> Let me check. If it ever loads, there's another I think you may as well just say yes. I'd say >> no. That's terrible. >> Yeah. This is the kind of thing though that I would take like a whole night to figure out what's happened this making this do this. Uh so this >> audio sounds good. That's the thing. Well, this is extremely fun as a situation. >> No obvious solutions. >> Well, it is for me actually. No, I'm sorry. I should >> Well, you're not going to be able to do much. You don't even like cuz it would be a fun problem to solve in theory, but you can't even like you're limited on your practice. I'm sorry this happened to you. I'm not happy about this, by the way. [laughter] >> Sending positive vibes your way right now. I'm afraid the vibes, they just they just don't do the job, you know? They should, but they don't. >> Damn. Let me try harder. Let me let me just decide to try harder and fix the problem. >> This is not in reference to anything. >> You got that Welsh internet. Unfortunately, the internet is absolutely fine. It's my PC. >> Like, I don't know. I I just figure that like even if even even if it's like it gets delayed by an hour, I figure that's fine. Like I I just think we should actually like try and fix the problem. >> Maybe we could like fix it very quickly. Who knows? >> Like >> maybe we could >> like like I I I think I would just almost state flatly that I think that the the lagging of the visuals is like at an unacceptable level. >> I think we shouldn't even entertain that it's at a level that's acceptable. >> How come we couldn't do this during the mixtape stream? That would probably upset our fans even more. [laughter] >> Like that's I don't know. That's why I Yeah, I figure I figure it's uh es especially just because like I can also just entirely imagine that there might be something that materializes that affects the audio as well. Like I don't this doesn't feel like it's an actually like stable. Clearly not stable, but like not even remotely stable enough to to like continue. It feels like it could just like explode any moment. >> Yeah. No, I don't got to be here for a while anyway. So, you know, I I don't know. I figure that even if as silly as it might be, that maybe another restart is all it will take to fix this problem. >> It wouldn't be unprecedented. >> I'm probably not going to risk another restart until I try other things. >> Just cuz my PC is finicky right now. I mean, just the fact that you are in a position where you have to say, "I'm not going to risk another restart is already like terrible." >> Well, it didn't uh it didn't come back straight away. That's This is why >> um's not the only one who never mind. It's whatever. That's fine. >> The worst case scenario is like it's hardware problem. If it's hardware problem, like it's unfixable at at this point. If it's software, I mean, I don't know. >> Mine did that when I first got it because it's it's ridiculous. Like, it weighs more than I do and it took two men to like lug it off a lorry and then they dropped it on a curb without telling me and then the motherboard cracked and so I was using it and it was just randomly turning itself off for no reason. >> Oh no, I'm so >> I am paranoid about that kind of thing. Like some people they like ship their PCs like in boxes on trucks and planes and stuff and I'm like no no no there's no [ __ ] way I'm shipping my PC anywhere. Absolutely not. >> I'm super paranoid about that kind of thing. >> Uh I'm going to have a look at settings in OBS and I can't change any unless we're not streaming. So I'm going to have to I'm going to stop again. >> Obviously. Um yes. >> Did it reset bit rate to something like absurdly low for some reason when you restarted? >> I mean I'm just going to look through this. what I mean by this is the next step now. It's going to be me reading and looking through everything. So, >> uh >> yeah, >> let's just stop and and try and figure it out. >> Well, yeah. Either we'll come back within like an hourish or we'll just have to do this a different day, I guess. >> Brand new day. >> Oh, yeah. >> Brand new day. >> Computers are weird, so who knows? >> Yeah, >> a restart could like it could do nothing or it could fix everything. So, >> yeah. >> Uh, well, we're up, but um I'm just keeping an eye on >> Okay. I I I I dare not get ahead of myself here, but like it ain't lagging. >> Oh. >> Mhm. >> The visual isn't lagging right now. >> Well, so everything's reduced on output now, like bit rate and uh just pressure on everything. >> But >> yeah, I think it's good. >> It's not lagging. So, hey chat, can you uh hello feedback here? Can you provide some feedback? >> How's it looking? How's it sounding? Maybe you talk more because that seems to be like the important. >> Yeah. So, broadly, uh it's still not good for me on my browser, everything. It's like it's like unusably laggy to scroll even on YouTube. >> But I figure if I don't touch anything, >> um then it'll if I can get it working enough that they can hear us talking. If they can hear us talking, that will be good enough. >> Yeah, they can. >> I guess so. >> Seems good. >> Fingers crossed that it holds up. >> Oh god. >> Back now. Whatever you just did broke it. It's fine. Good. Just don't do anything. Not touch your computer. >> Don't Don't even breathe. How long am I not allowed to breathe for? >> Well, [laughter] it's gonna This is going to be a long movie. This is going to be a long eap on this movie. So, unfortunately, it might be a while. >> Um, >> dude, >> I might just nuke the browser actually. >> Make sure you nuke it fully. Like, task manager nuke it maybe. Just make sure that Yeah, it's actually ended. Um, >> I mean this this this is it. So chat for the next like two minutes, right? We'll just we'll just blim blam and and if could you tolerate two this two minutes in the form of several hours of talking about Spider-Man? And if so, we will carry on. If not, then we will have to stop. >> Everyone talk. [laughter] >> All right. Well, we'll definitely see. I mean, we can talk about anything that we want. I mean, especially if it's just for testing purposes to >> see if everything's stable and smooth enough to carry on. >> I mean, that's what you know, that's what we should be doing now is just, you know, we just want to see cuz the last thing we want is to be, you know, is to is to be >> we're going to have to consider something radical and that is an audio only podcast. Do they ever do that sort of thing? [gasps] >> I don't think >> I don't think that they have. This might be This might be unprecedented. We would be trailblazers. >> Well, [laughter] podcast you just where you just listen, >> you know, I've never heard of that before. >> Normally, we would show some trailer footage and maybe some some posts about different things that have been said about the movie or some behind the scenes stuff, but for this one, I'm going to just not even touch uh >> the browser cuz it looks like I'm going to jinx it now. But it looks like things are just functional enough and the chat seem happy enough. So, should we should we continue? >> I'm down for it. We This will be theater of the mind. >> Imagine everything that we say. You're like, >> "All right." So, uh yeah. So, we were talking about Spider-Man. That's what we're doing today. We're talking about Spider-Man: Brand New Day. >> Movie of the day. We got your We got your perspectives, chat. So, that's good that we've got that. Uh just just we'll we'll just sort of keep that in mind as we kind of progress here. Uh you know what I figure that we don't actually need to do any sort of recapping of the home trilogy because conversations about those films will inevitably arise as we progress. And also because if you talk about what you think about those movies, people just kind of stop listening to you potentially. So you know what? We don't need to do that. We could just sort of talk, right? We could just talk about this movie and then it'll sort of show clear maybe how how this film slots in in relation. >> Every every Spider-Man movie is a battleground. Everyone, there's not a single one. >> I think that is the truth. It doesn't matter. And um I have no doubt that uh the sentiment regarding this film will change inevitably. Whether or not you think that's fair or unfair, well, that kind of depends on I don't know your personal opinion of the movie, I suppose. What was the last like generally universally liked Spider-Man movie? I don't know. Like Spider-Man 2. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Or maybe Into the Spiderverse. I don't know. >> Uh Into the Spider-Verse, maybe. But for those who watched it, not the sequel. Certainly not. Definitely not a cross. Well, it was Everybody was universally positive about that for a while until they started thinking about how canon events are really stupid. Um, but anyway, we're not talking about that one and we'll talk about that. We will finally talk about that next year, I think, is when the other one comes out. Wow. Exciting. >> It's been 84 years. >> Fingers crossed. >> Yeah, it's been a long time. Uh, all right. How about uh we we'll just talk about this movie. Right to left. Tell me what you thought about Spider-Man. What? >> Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Oh, >> right to left. Tell me what you thought about Spider-Man: Brand New Day briefly. Platoon briefly. >> Briefly. Okay. Spider-Man brand new day is not very good. >> A >> there you go. >> All right. Sure. >> I can be slightly less brief if you want, but I figured we'll >> Hey, we we can go you can you can sort of just give me sort of a minute a minute around about a minute >> in summary. >> In summary. Okay. Well, uh, weirdly, despite it not being very good, I think if this was the baseline for the MC was as a whole, it would be in a healthier place. Um, but that's really just a comment on how utterly appalling everything else has been. Um, villain, well, depending on which villain you actually mean. There is a villain in the film, but the movie doesn't necessarily think that that villain is a villain. Um but villains extremely underwhelming, poorly motivated. Uh certain important introduction of character who is also very poorly motivated somehow manages to be both shocking in a bad way but also at the same time underwhelming which is quite an achievement. Um overall story kind of yeah underwhelming and uh Punisher who's also in the movie underwhelming. Um I think underwhelming is probably going to be the the overall word. So, like, yeah, not great. Still better than a lot of other recent MCU stuff, but not by as much as a lot of people, I think, will will say. Um, and it's not better than the John Watt Spider-Man films. >> Oo, >> damn. Shots fired. >> All right, rags. >> Uh, keeping it brief. Uh, there is virtually nothing about this movie that I like. While I was watching it, I was sort of caught in the MCU malaise of, oh, it's bad. you know, your eyes glaze over, you you want to think about something else. But it was it but I I couldn't do it. I couldn't even hold that. What began as a movie that I just flat out didn't like actually became a movie that I began to slowly but sur Well, actually, not that slowly but surely, but certainly surely hate. Um, I started to feel a bit upset at what this movie was doing. I don't like what it does with Peter. I think uh it's it's got maybe one of the stupidest villains in fiction, maybe given uh the potential of the power set that they've introduced. I hate the direction that they took this in terms of, you know, where Peter is and what he wants to do. I hated the cameos. I I just I like essentially nothing about this movie. And we'll get into that in a greater detail as we go because all of us will have things to say. Not >> where do I start? Uh which which thing do I emphasize? I think uh Brand New Day is the funniest Spider-Man movie ever and it's the best comedy of the year. >> Wow. Why was I crying then? >> I don't know [laughter] why. >> Crying with laughter. >> I was laughing so much. I had the best laugh. I had so much fun. I mean fun. I had a lot of laughs. I thought it was very f a very funny movie. The unintentionally so unfortunately. Um yeah. And I think the the only thing I'll add is like the first montage thing that you see in the movie. That should have been the movie. I don't know what the [ __ ] everything else was. That's it. noobs. >> Um, I don't think much of anything works in this film. They take a platform that was generated across a whole trilogy of binding and building and spawning Spider-Man within a universe that already has loads of rules in history and desperately trying to reasonably get him from childhood to adulthood and to the Spider-Man everyone's familiar with only to flush all of it down the toilet and to like desperately recreate but with sort of worse emphasis in meaning and uh thematic potency the same payoff that the end of that trilogy did. Um, that would be, you know, only one of many issues if it wasn't for possibly the worst villain in in in the MCU. I think Rise kind of said something like that or stupidest. Um, absolutely unmotivated, [ __ ] insane. Just uh >> stiff competition for that. >> Never seen a movie completely just miss what character it's even dealing with. And then just assassin assassinations being tossed around like candy for basically every character in the movie. She's um she's a great example, I'd say, uh the bad guy of just dealing significant damage to so many other characters where uh in other stuff you can almost avoid it depending on how you write it. Um the plot is hilariously nonsense, world building out the window. And um the thing that I guess will keep this film healthy for a little longer before everyone starts to really think about all the nonsense in it would just be the uh there's fight sequences, there's uh webbing stuff that can be neat. Um, but you know, every character, Punisher, Jean, even um even Yolena is assassinated in this movie and she's in it for about a minute. >> Oh, yeah. >> That's incredible. They do some really great work. And yeah, of course, this uh this for me is one of the few, if not the only character remaining in the MCU outside of possibly John Walker that I still care about. And uh this this was it. He's uh this is as far as he goes. He's he's out now, unfortunately. Well, that's a shame. Um, and it makes me think that, yeah, there's uh we're not just at the end of the doomed times. We're we're pretty thickly in it. This is uh going to have to endure a lot more [ __ ] for a while. Um, you know what? It's great that when uh when Spider-Man jumps off a building and he's sort of like falling down and then he starts swinging that the fabric like on his suit kind of wobbles a little bit in the wind. That's like great, man. As well as that little shot >> from >> as well as that little shot from uh like inside, you know, the shot where you see his little eyeball in the in the mask. Even though it doesn't really make any sense, but you're not allowed to say that >> because if a shot doesn't make sense, you point it out, then there's something wrong with you. You're not allowed to say that. Don't say that. Um but yeah, and then he goes and and he swings and he and he does some spins and stuff and he cries um while sad music is playing as he's as he's swinging around in the rain. Um and he's he's poor, but he uh but he does have a super sophisticated like 3D printer that builds his Spider-Man suits and a super advanced AI assistant that puts like a big heads up display in his screen. and I don't know what he does for work to pay for all of this, but he's poor and he's sad and alone, which is um as I understand it, what everybody wanted. Um, which I find very funny. I uh I feel like this movie I echo all of that that this film is really stupid, but what I find really funny is just this film simultaneously feels like it's a response to all of the things that people say um that you know all of the the commentary that surrounded the previous trilogy of Spider-Man films. It feels like a response to that while at the same time not actually doing what people wanted it to do. um which I find almost more fascinating in a meta sense. Uh I don't really know how this film can possibly survive on that front. Even putting to one side the catastrophic damage that this story deals to uh Spider-Man uh to its new character that's probably going to have a lot of history, like a lot of story to come to the world building. Um as well as just like I don't know, man. I feel like a common criticism of the previous Spider-Man trilogy was this idea that the villains don't have any connection to the character. Uh, which is not true. Only for that to like definitely be true here. But we could talk about that a little bit later. The point being I think this film is like really bad, but I also don't think it's even giving people at least what they wanted. Um, and yet it's going over really well, which I find very perplexing. But hey, maybe you know a few of you that really enjoyed it might feel a bit differently by the time that we're done talking about it. >> I think like weirdly this is this will parallel with the next thing we talk about next week about how how easy it is to fool a lot of people. Not that that should be news, but there are things that you can put in your video game, your movie that will just completely fool everybody. It could be some music. It could be some visuals. It can be some fight sequences. It could be some graphics and then everything else just completely falls by the wayside and gets completely forgotten because those the the the flashing lights worked, you know, the music and the stuff that the the feels it it worked. >> We uh I figure that the best, you know, we we should just like launch right into it right from the start, right from the first scene of the movie. >> Um Oh, the other thing as well, the Oh, the color grading is good. That means it's like a real great movie with amazing cinematography as well. We're so back. >> Uh Destin Daniel [ __ ] he cooked. Um anyway, uh Peter Parker is uh he's he's alone. Is that his name? I always get it wrong. What is the dude's name? I should actually like figure that out. I feel like I keep mixing them up. >> No, Peter Parker's right. Yeah, Peter Peter Parker. You got it. >> Yeah. Yeah, you nailed [laughter] it. You nailed it. >> Have you seen this movie before? Are you a fan? >> He was just asking if he changed it legally, you know. That's all. >> Yeah. >> Oh, anyway. So, uh, Peter Parker is alone in his apartment working on Spider-Man stuff. As mentioned previously, he has a sophisticated 3D printer, which is building him a new suit. He's tinkering with his web shooters, uh, with the assistance of an AI system he created called Eevee, that's played by Naomi Watts. >> I feel like there's something to be said for this immediately. >> Yeah. >> Um, I don't know, man. I thought the whole point of the reset was that he was going to have like no resources. That was going to be very very very homemade. Not to the point that he has like a pretty good laboratory where he could build all sorts of crazy stuff with a ultra super futuristic 3D printer. >> Wow. To the point that he will he will build something that will change the world. [laughter] It will change the world in ways that before before the world has even changed in a way that it needs to be accounted for. >> Yeah, I I was thoroughly disappointed throughout this movie and we'll obviously get into all those points later with how capable his ability to like do tech and things are. He's a very smart person. Obviously, I wouldn't want that to be changed that he's that he's not a smart guy. he should be, but it's his it's how smart he is and what he has access to technologically and the kinds of problems that allows him to just instantly essentially get around that I do not like at all about this movie. That first scene was already it just felt like the nail in the coffin when the movie hasn't even started for me cuz like we already are at the end where I thought we would be getting to >> Yeah. >> when the with the film because I was just excited. Maybe it's just I had like wrong maybe expectations and it's on me. But this movie really like probably after No Way Home, you were expecting him to basically quote unquote hustle this entire film to to struggle and sort of build himself back up. But we basically bring him back to where he was in No Way Home just with less friends and that's it. >> Yeah. Sugar is really high tech. >> Really high tech. Shockingly to the point where you can't even tell the difference between this one and a stock one. Um, >> and Rag Yeah, exactly. And Rags is right cuz it's just like it's the difference between being a a prodigy or a child genius and being basically a demigod. What he is doing in this movie particularly, but there has been presidents of that. Let's not in this movie particularly is just like inhuman and it's just not I've I mean I've been in the tech field myself and I've known many like genius level kids. It's not life doesn't work that way and when you write a character like this like that it's just terrible writing. I mean there's nothing you can >> attribute he's not even the smartest character in the movie anyway. >> Yeah. It's worse than that, too, because he's designed the very things that are going to bail him out all the time in the movie where he's confused. >> And I find that really annoying. Like, there are going to be things this AI does >> solving things. >> Yeah. There's things the AI does that he could have done and then there are things the AI does that no one on planet Earth could do for him. Like, as in we get the worst of both worlds for for every aspect of this. Whereas, we could have jumped right in to him dealing with really low-level thugs and low-level just just criminals in the city while doing some jobs here and there in like a joking way, maybe helping someone move as Spider-Man and then getting like some some cash for the job and helping people out high-fiving sort of thing, but then also showing Peter trying to get a job. Crazy idea. Photography, maybe you could probably put him into that in some way, shape, or >> form. That's like completely abandoned. Um, so build up money, take out bad guys, and then slowly make something of himself instead of skipping us to >> possibly the most advanced AI we've seen in the movies up to this point, the most advanced spider suit we've seen up to this point, and uh, technology that he not only understands, but can facilitate to >> print suits, print essentially stock tech in his room and edit his own DNA. >> So, um, >> yeah. And uh and bear in mind as well that on that when you were talking about you know that he could be working his way up or getting a job or going to university it's like and then through that inevitably that's an avenue to introduce new characters you know because there's heaps of Spider-Man characters you could be introducing through that means and the trade-off for how advanced all of his technology is is that >> he has no life at all nothing like he hasn't he doesn't have any friends new like like I said what does he do for money >> he's got money >> made on Twitter that he's a genius therefore he has money cuz it's like easy for the genius people and it's just so not >> true for >> I I think that's just that's just a remarkably stupid thing to say >> it is pay me rent what does he do >> and then there are people like he has leftover money or like belongings from Tony or something and I'm like the reason why everybody liked the ending of No Way Home was that he was broken alone. >> Yeah, >> I was on a platter, dude. It was right there. >> It was It was It was right there, man. >> You re You reset You purposefully designed the plot of No Way Home to where you could essentially reset him back to basics. He's learned a very important lesson. He's proved his heroism. We're ready to, you know, move forward and see what kind of a person that trilogy has turned him into and how he, you know, operates from now on. >> Decided that the way that we're going to start is we're not going to progress anything in terms of his personal life, but we're going to pro progress everything with regard. We're going to skip over cuz it's already been said, but we are going to skip over like Spider-Man's rogues gallery shenanigans. A lot of that stuff that you saw in the trailer as part of an opening montage, which I already thought would be the case. I had a feeling it had it had a montage vibe especially with how they were marketing that they were doing comic book covers like they were doing homages to comic book covers. It was like ah these will be like 5second shot but you're not actually going to do anything with Tombstone and it's like yeah but what about Scorpion? There'll be more of him. It's like ah >> barely >> very much Scorpion in this movie. [laughter] you know, there there really isn't much of that aspect of the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man thing as will sort of become apparent as we >> to what you said um >> it's not like anyone watches No Way Home and thinks ah so Spider-Man's lesson is he will never be connected to anyone ever again. That sounds lame. It's like no no no that was obviously for all the connections he made up to that point. He sees like the damage that can be done by being in their lives and everything. But that him going to university like was mentioned or doing work where he saves people or even trying to work with other law enforcement in an awkward way, it just generates connections. It's a huge offer for for new people. >> Going to university starts to justify in more interesting ways. Kind of like what we saw in Homecoming, how he built web fluids like at when he was in chemistry. >> He'd go to school and get the stuff that he needed to do it. So you can just transfer that to university but at a greater scale you know more access more smart people like you know Dr. Connors or something that he can talk to >> where entities like OC Corp can be really you know useful. Yes like that like some sort of internship you know >> you see where the original >> the the the trilogyy's going and then this film just feels like it goes off the rails completely because this is the the time to do a reintroduction of Oscorp, right? Cuz they said there is no OC Corp in this world. It's like, so all you have to do is they're building up the Osbornes as a family and that they've decided to Silicon Valley venture capital style. >> They could have bought out another company that's huge in tech and they rename it to Oscorp and it's like oh [ __ ] that's where they were and then you know you have your own versions but like you said Dr. Connor is another avenue >> you could pick you could pick an unknown like from the comics a story that most people try and make something new and iconic. The one that was really is like no black cat at all and then no MJ as well. I was like, "Damn." Well, I say no. MJ, >> no Mary Jane Watson. >> No. Mary Jade Watson >> to to say it ahead of time. I mean, you are not getting any new friends or romantic interests like in this in this movie. There's no Gwen Stacy, no uh no Black Cat, like we're not >> for a little bit, but it just doesn't amount to anything. So I'm like >> weirdly no Jonah as well. >> The point would be if this is like a brand new day, >> we still got a lot of stuff that we're going to be hanging up on. And whether or not that was necessary, well, we can talk about that a little bit more as we go. But um this uh this >> this movie should have been called Yesterday again. >> Yeah, >> little bit. >> Maybe. So, um, while he's there with all of his, >> he, uh, he opens a drawer on his desk, and he finds the coffee cup, which contains the letter that he wrote to MJ at the end of No Way Home. And so, it starts narrating as, as we're seeing stuff, but I guess it's worth reading it out loud because I'm pretty sure you don't get the whole thing in um, in No Way Home. I think you only get the introduction. So, a lot of this is brand new. And he says, "Hi, my name is Peter Park. You don't remember me, but I have something to tell you that's going to sound crazy, but it's the truth. And I know you're going to believe me because you're very good at telling when I'm lying. We used to know each other. We Yeah. >> Sorry. I I didn't mean to address. Sorry. I just um for a genius, he writes very much like a juvenile. Oh my gosh. >> Oh, well, I I was going to save that for later, but um there's a lot of like >> Yeah. >> runon sentences in a lot of the writing in this film. >> Um >> because tech genius doesn't mean that he's a good writer. >> It's not Pete's fault. writer's fault. Okay. >> Anyway, so uh he says, "We used to know each other. We were together, but something bad was going to happen, and the only way to stop it was to make everybody forget me, including you." And so, while he says this, um like seconds after rediscovering the letter, he he uh he receives a notification on his phone. It's like a little Instagram post uh cuz Ned is posting like an Instagram story and a whole bunch of them documenting essentially him going to MIT with MJ. And this is like day one, which this will help sort of contextualize what we're about to see. Like this montage, this is spanning years. This is spanning about four or five years, something like that. It's I mean, however long it would take someone to go through MIT for like some, you know, crazy like engineering degree or something. I assume it's like four or five years. Um, so that's that's like the time span here. That's something that's worth keeping in mind partially for like world building implications. Just keep that in mind. Um, and so, uh, and and so he continues because I'm not just Peter Parker. I'm Spider-Man. And sometimes Spider-Man has to do the hard thing, even if it breaks Peter Parker's heart. And maybe that's my responsibility to live alone with the truth. But the truth is, MJ, that I love you. And I hope deep down something inside you knows that you love me, too. But until then, I'm just going to be Spider-Man. This is like the the majority of what the movie is about already. Just very explicitly and clunkily said by the main character to >> very clunkily. >> Uh the the whole like sometimes Spider-Man's got to do things that breaks Peter Parker's heart. I was like >> imagine just being like a beret stone a random day and some guy comes up to you and tells you all this [ __ ] nonsense. >> [laughter] >> I think that's part of the thing that needs to be kind of understood and because I think I don't know about you but I've thought like oh what if you know what if I did >> time travel or something like that like how would I convince everybody like how would I if you know how would I convince oh so in in a different universe Mer we start a podcast and everything and da da da and like how how would that happen was like oh yeah he'd think I'm a crazy person because obviously that's what would happen and surely Peter like knows that there's no possible way that you can go to someone in this scenario Yes. >> And say, "No, no, no. I talked to a wizard and he cast a magic spell over all the universe." But not all the universes. Just this one, I think. And that means that like everyone who knew me forgot about me because I had to protect you from all the people who are coming after me. But you and I, we were in love and we kissed and everything. >> Well, the thing is is that I mean, he could, right? If he did a flip, he'd be like, "Yeah, see I'm Spider-Man. Look at that. I did a flip." So, you know, he can find a guy. We are going to uh we're going to get information as the film progresses. be a triple flip. >> That's not great in terms of essentially, but we're going to get the perspectives of characters on the nature of how the spell worked. But to be fair to this film, the spell was silly in No Way Home anyway. Like it's it's pretty hard to justify how it could work. It inherits that damage, but I don't think it does a great job trying to uh >> deal with it. >> It should have just ignored it and just let the character >> Oh, you should Yeah. move forward. Move Keep moving forward. >> [clears throat] >> cuz I'm in full agreement, right? Like first of all, it was really disappointing to know that he's I already I've been worrying about this from the trailers for a while because of the presence of those characters, but he's like while showing the montage, he's just he's just stalking, man. He's just keeping track at all times. >> And it's just like, dude, he's following him on Instagram. >> I want to be very clear. >> Um there's there's like, you know, the counter notion of, yeah, but you're suggesting he'd stop caring about them. It's like, no, no, no, no. I think he cares immensely about them, but that he makes this very adult decision at the end of No Way Home. That one, it's going to be a nightmare getting everything back on track, like Rags was saying, convincing them of this wizard. And even if you do convince them, you've convinced them that there was a past vision of themselves that no longer exists. That's not great to tell somebody anyway. Um, so then on top of all that, >> I did something to your mind. The most important detail for the character in No Way Home is when he's about to tell her he sees her injury and then he stops, thinks, and it's like, is it worth it for her to know me just so that I can know her? Like basically, is this fair to to people to put me in their lives even if my main like the reason I want it is so much because of how much it means to me? And it just felt very Spiderman to me for him to be like, I'm not going to do this to her just because I want it. >> That's a high point. >> Yeah. No, I think it's really good. And so now >> off in a great note. >> I'm already realizing right with that description and and the the opening montage, I'm like, ah [ __ ] So the point is going to be that he's he's waning on that principle. He's like, actually, I think it is worth it. Actually, I think it is worth telling it. And what's worse, of course, is uh is the additional years is every everything's further away now. >> Years, four or five years that this is this is going on. >> Um and it just feels like a complete regression of the character while also pushing him way further forward than we ever would have expected in all the other aspects. >> Yeah, it would have been nice actually to have like they just they're not a part of this movie. Maybe at the very beginning it's letting you know that he's, you know, he's moved on in a in a mature way, like he's not going to obsess over them, stalk over them, watch everything that they do. He is purposefully, meaningfully putting a distance between him and the people he cares about because he knows what could happen if they're, you know, a connection is drawn. And he is happy for them to have this life that they have now. And that's enough for him. He doesn't need to be a part of it. And they don't appear in the film ever whatsoever. They're no longer a part of this story. That's not the film we got. >> No. Look, I I can see I can see liking like being okay with um the whole him like following the the his friends and stuff at the beginning kind of as a as a thing of like I could see him potentially relapsing or regressing, which is like a part of life and especially as a young adult. He he might have still missed them and had a nostalgia and like got weaker and weaker over time and you know relapsed into that. However, I would like that if the movie's message was something entirely different. If the movie was basically, you know, about him doing all that but then coming out of it and learning his lesson. But it's the opposite that happens. the the the the movie rewards him for that which you know completely defeats the what I would potentially like about that story line. So if that made any sense >> I think so. So, [clears throat] uh, after the >> Okay, >> so after the, uh, the that that that that line gets read, he goes swinging and the fabric shimmers. And I'm gonna say right now, cuz we're probably not going to talk much about the fighting or or the or the swinging, like in terms of like how it looks, cuz I've know that people have said that they think it looks good. I don't think that it looks particularly great. Um, I think that Tasm has better websing than this movie does. I don't I don't like those movies. I think Tasm still looks better. Both the first one and the second [clears throat] one they they look way better. Like nothing in this I find particularly impressive on that front. >> Limited point of praise as well. Even if you accept that they are an improvement over the last three movies, once you get past, okay, the web swinging looks kind of cool. What else have you got? Oh, kind of nothing. I I I don't know. Maybe I'm just not a big enough Spider-Man fan, but I just kind of, you know, I'd rather never Spider-Man fan. >> Apparently not. No, it's like Sonic fandom or Monsterverse fandom. You can just never compare Spider-Man fans to Sonic fans despite [laughter] how accurate. You can't just say that. >> Um, yeah. So, he he he goes swinging around and and the big old montage tells us what he's been getting up to over the over the last few years. So, I figured that the easiest way to do this is to sort of almost break it down into like two components. So like his Spider-Man life and the Peter Parker life that basically doesn't exist. So in these 5 years, Spider-Man has fostered a like a relationship essentially with the NYPD. Um there's a detective Rivera that's like mainly his connection. Um and it's a strong one. Like he's got a strong connection with the with the New York Police Department. Um and he uh and and he systematically dismantles several criminal organizations throughout New York. And we see that this includes the antics of scorpion, tombstone, and the hand. >> The hand from the past. >> We need to uh we need to Yeah, we need we need to slow down a little bit. I think that this montage plays a little bit uh I just want to say dishonest in terms of how it defines the time span that we have. Cuz the way that this montage is essentially contextualized is that we keep seeing Peter watching like videos that Ned is posting of like, oh, it's the first year at MIT. Wow. Oh, it's the second year. Oh, it's the third year. So, you're meant to essentially infer that all of this is kind of generally happening over the course of that time. But during the montage, there's a news anchor, which is helpful. Always using a news anchor to do that. He says, "In the past 6 months, Spider-Man has taken down every criminal organization in New York." And this line feels like it's a line that's trying to deal with Daredevil because that's kind of the big problem here in multiple ways is Daredevil. >> Um, >> and to be fairold, >> they can't you can't like anyone who wants to claim, well, they just completely ignore Darevil. I was like, Punisher is in this movie. >> Punisher is in this movie. So, >> Daredevil was in the last movie. >> You can't. And he was in the last movie, too. Like, >> I mean, he was his lawyer. >> You You've got two big problems. Number one, the hand was destroyed in Defenders, which is canon. Um, I don't You can't just tell me, "Oh, yeah, and then the hand appeared and then Spider-Man beat them." You can't just do that. They got even in defenders. >> What if I won a big ninja fight and I can't be asked to explain any reason why the hand are there? >> I just do that. >> Say that there's a ninja gang in New York. >> No, no, it defeated the hand. It's It's a new hand. And And it's funny because it's a [laughter] new hand. The left hand They get defeated off. All you see for him defeating the hand is that shot in the trailer where he launches towards all of them going at him with the swords. You know the one at the end of the first trailer. That's all you get for the hand. Yeah, you could have introduced the foot from Ninja Turtles. [laughter] >> But >> I think even if you don't take into account like the hand being defeated in, you know, defenders, if you go into this like not knowing that, which I would say is just it's just most people that's just the majority of people who watch this. Yeah. >> Um, but it see it just kind of seems like in a throwaway line. Yeah. It's like, oh, they were like a really really big deal though. They they were like killers. They were they were super highly trained killers that Daredevil and all that stuff >> using magic and stuff. >> Yeah. Like this was like a huge deal. And it's like, oh, Spider-Man just beat them all. I'm like, oh, that kind of like really devalues the hand as an antagonistic force to just say that, oh yeah, he dealt with them. They're done. Well, I mean, it denies it denies Daredevil the possibility to use the hand ever again. Like some resurgent hand, and we just don't have anything. And and basically all we see of the hand is like like six ninjas. Basically, you got like about six or seven ninjas. Oh, [ __ ] me. So, >> they just needed guidance, man. >> Yeah. Well, we'll get we'll get there. And then, of course, like I said, that's one thing. Number two, this film just doesn't acknowledge that there was about a year in the MCU where New York turned into a fascist dictatorship under King and and he specifically signaled that he was going after Spider-Man. Like he he he he was an anti-vigilante fascist dictator that took over New York and we're just going to ignore like and and by the way, this film doesn't pretend that Daredevil doesn't exist. Sheila is the new mayor of New York. of the fascist dictatorships or something. >> What did Spider-Man think of Kingpin just murdering people as the mayor? Like just slamming people's walls. >> He couldn't interfere. Didn't do anything about it. >> He was too busy going to his ran off. He's too busy watching Ned's live stream. [laughter] >> Again, it does feel awkward. Spider-Man dismantled every criminal organization except the fascist dictator that took over the city [laughter] and specifically [snorts] and disappeared people. And then the mayor went and then the mayor went insane and murdered a bunch of innocent people at city hall with his bare hand. >> Neil I didn't know Neil Duckman directed Spider-Man brand new day where he stops at the top. the the answer the whole point I'm bringing up here is that um it doesn't want to deal with that. It doesn't acknowledge that it is incompatible with it. They they are incompatible which is very awkward when the Punisher is a prominent character in this movie. He is he's in it a lot. >> So yeah, that >> this is what happens at everything in New York. Also, you know, there's more cities in the on the globe and the the United States has a plethora of large cities for you to choose from to set your movies and settings in. They don't all have to be New York. >> The thing is is that Spider-Man and Daredevil are very inextricably tied to New York. Uh, so they can't be removed from it. The last time we >> It is. It is. that unfortunately they did the they did homecoming mostly in Queens and people complained about that cuz he wasn't swinging from skyscrapers even though that was a deliberate choice that that movie made. >> So no, we have to be in New We have to be in Manhattan. It has to be in Manhattan. >> I did sort of I I I wrote down something. it'll come into play um when um when when Peter does go to the top of the building and he purposefully takes his mask off to watch the Ned live stream on the building and I'm thinking like well the last time we saw him we saw the results at the when Beckett I think Mysterio reveals to the world that oh yeah Peter Parker's is Spider-Man and that creates a huge cascading set of plot events that lead to a big mic universe spell that shouldn't exist and it stresses Peter out and it gets him to do all thing like he Peter should be really really paranoid about being seen >> his face in the suit because of all of the things that happened in previous movies and one of the first things we see is him like yeah is there a small chance that he'll be seen a very small one sure but like man we do you should keep that mask on like all the time when you're in the suit >> to the film's credit he does keep the mask on a lot in the movie which I always prefer because when you take the mask off you lose >> you lose an important aspect the design of the character, >> which is also an issue that we'll get to once we get there. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and also, by the way, it's worth noting when he when he puts on the mask and and like takes it off, it's a floopy CG thing. So, I don't know why people are praising that, it's clearly floopy CGI when he puts the mask on in that scene. And when he does it later during the first action scene, but everybody nobody's interested in talking about that for the time being, I guess. >> Never mind. I I want to nitpick like take a moment to nitpick like Ned's Instagram stories or whatever the [ __ ] that was. This just like >> in what I liked about uh Homecoming in the first trilogy is that how much it understood basically like teenagers and young people. And I think I always think about like that far from home presentation with PowerPoint about like Tony Stark's death. It's just like I I think I will always love you is playing. This is just like such an accurate presentation of like a kid would make like >> Yeah, the transitions are all clunky and different and like fading and doing those awkward spins from like an old tech sort of thing. >> It basically understands teenagers and he understands >> school announcements and >> just how stilted and awkward they were. >> I'm not a huge user of Instagram. I don't even have it on my phone. But from what I'm like, Ned's stories are just so stupid cuz no [ __ ] person uses those like stories that way. He's basically like doing >> Yeah, but that's Ned. >> That's the titular Ned from EAP 397. >> A character quirk. But I still think that even like I've never seen a person anyone just like, "Hey, that just like film a autobiography on their Instagram stories." It's just so weird. They show like they show the likes and stuff on the on the page when it pops up and it shows >> Oh, I thought it showed like >> I thought 300 likes. That's not much. >> I mean, for a random person talking about MIT, I feel like that's way more than most people would ever get. >> I thought people get like thousands or tens of thou like if they're doing well on Instagram. Maybe I'm I'm out of >> ecosystem. >> Rag revealing himself to not be an Instagram user. >> First off, I'm not and I will I proudly I will declare this from the mountain tops. I don't use Instagram. All right. Maybe some but I I figured that it would be if you like breaking the you know getting out of the like the 90% of whatever of influencers or people online get like 10 likes maybe and then once you get your 11th like you're in like the top whatever percentile of all people just because of how bottom heavy you know that is. So I was like oh you know it showed that he had a decent amount. I don't know maybe it's just the scales off because I'm not familiar with Instagram. We can move on. it. Yeah. One more thing I want to say like it's just what commu what it communicates to me straight away is just like these types of details is how contrived the story is because like they're communicating so much information through something that is just so contrived and just made up >> to like Ned's day going without showing us Ned. >> Yeah, exactly. But uh but I mean the whole point is the montage is Yeah. He's doing all this crazy stuff as Spider-Man, but he has completely neglected his personal life. He has no new relationships. He's still pining over the relationships he lost. He also appears to be struggling with headaches. I again feel like it's worth reiterating. I don't know how he pays the rent. >> Um >> I think they're missing out on a big part of the Yeah. Spider-Man, you know, thing that you could play with was the duality. Peter Parker, Spider-Man. It's something the other movies have done, you know, to different degrees. >> Not interested in doing that. like explicitly. That's not what we're doing here with this movie. >> They show what they'll do is they'll show him getting an apartment and the apartment's like, "Oh, we'll use it as a storage room, but Peter says it's perfect." And then for the rest of the film, he's set. It's huge. >> He's done. This feels like it's such a problem with it. Like, if you ever go and look at some of the these apartments that exist now, they're [ __ ] tiny. some of these apartments that you >> live in fridges minis like and he lives in this massive loft like this massive loft in the middle of New York and it's like dude wouldn't that cost like $5,000 a month like to to rent something like that [laughter] it feels like upgrade >> like with how much it costs to live in New York it's always been expensive but like the idea that he could have that while seemingly not having a job is insane like >> Doctor Strange Bell is like everyone will forget Peter Parker or Spider-Man except the bank account number and the social security number and all the stuff he actually needs to live. >> Someone has pointed out that it has asbestos. I don't think even though it's even though it's got astos it would still probably go for like $5,000 [laughter] a month. That's kind of what's the point. I don't know. Like it it is >> it is insane he has this when we don't even know what he does for money in this movie. Newer builds don't use a spare, but there are plenty of builds that still have them. >> Like, >> so the idea Yeah. You get a huge discount. But I mean, it's fine. He can 3D print an apartment, I think, at this point with the technology he has. >> That he can't. >> It's not just a 3D printer is like relatively cheap. It's just the materials >> that >> Yeah, but it's a super It's a super duper like advanced 3D printer is what you see there. And also, yes, you're right. The material. >> It's magic. It's It's >> the suit it makes. Yeah. 3D printing that suit is [ __ ] unreal. >> Yeah. And I'm like, >> if anyone makes an argument maybe it's more accessible in MCU because the technology is more advanced, which I've never heard anyone say that. But for the argument sake, >> uh any if it was so easily accessible, I think everyone would be Spider-Man at this point in that city. Not just that, but we've got other precedent of people struggling moneywise in other like poor Falcon can't even get a banker. >> That's right. Can't even get a loan. >> Black man can't even get a loan. >> And there's Spider-Man just soaking up all the wealth. I guess >> I'm pretty sure like Peter can't even bills. >> That was kind of the funny joke. He could actually seem to print actual money. >> Yeah. To pay his rent. He's >> what an ethical dilemma that Spider-Man could be put through. But instead, we'll have different ethical >> and also like we have to factor in the fact that he's probably doing most of this like illegally cuz if I mean I don't again the spell stuff is stupid. But from my perspective, how I imagined it is that his entire identity I mean if he if his own mother wouldn't remember him, he definitely does not have like ID or anything. He's not legally registered anywhere. So, he must be >> Well, I would assume he's on like bank rolls and stuff like that. It's just that I I think the it's the connection between >> What was the specifics of the spell? It was the connection. >> Everybody forgets Peter Parker. Everybody forgets Peter Parker exists. Period. It's not about Spider-Man. They forget that Peter Parker exists at all. >> All right. Cuz even in they showed like photos in one of them that like had him in different angles and things covering his head and stuff. Uh so, okay. Um >> well so contextualizes it is that later in the film well yeah this is the problem is like does the spell deal with like paperwork? >> Yeah >> I assume if it deals with digital photos I assume it deals with paperwork as well. >> It does it in such a way like it we're unfortunately it's like it's the realm of a massive universal magic spell. I guess >> literal magic. Yes. >> Yeah. It's like literal ma I guess it works. That's why I sort of cutist I guess >> to the movie of like why hasn't he enrolled in a university yet or anywhere cuz he very if he's such a genius I mean he could I definitely could see him like getting a scholarship still without like having any funds or anything by like exams and [ __ ] but um I just assume that he has no legal way of applying. That would have been really fund >> to have him hack his way into uh creating an identity and then enrollment at a university. That would have been cool. >> That would be a way for him to show his intelligence. Not just say, "Oh, this machine will take care of everything for me. I am smart. The plot says I'm smart." But to actually show him using his intelligence. >> Yeah. Wouldn't that be crazy? >> That would be insane in the membrane. So, um, another thing that we see is that Peter keeps going to it's bodega, right? That's what they convenience store. >> Oh, wait. >> I think Oh, before I forget, u I guess it was in the intro. I guess Scorpion's out of prison >> and now he's he's back in he got [laughter] all Yeah. >> Yeah. We don't know how he got the suit. >> He came out by a piano. [laughter] >> I saw him in the montage and I'm like, they let you for what? Good behavior or something? They just let you out and you got access to your suit again. >> He got out and he Well, he never had a suit. He He when he went to jail, he wasn't Scorpion yet. >> Yeah, he was unrelated. It was unrelated crime. Okay. >> Uh like chat Scorpion was set up in Homecoming. He turns up in the middle of this montage. I was like, "Hello, I'm Scorpion. Here I am." And then gets dropped by a piano and then gets put back in jail. And I can say you will not see him again quote unquote. >> Well, you will only see him for like 10 seconds basically. Yes. >> Yeah. Like like it's it's not even meaningful. You know that 10 seconds. >> He gets about he gets about five scorpion like actual Scorpion gets maybe five lines of dialogue in this. That's probably too much. It might be three. >> Actual Scorpion. >> You'll understand what I mean when we get there. But like that's it for Scorpion pretty much. Character Scorpion. If you want to see him talk, go play Far Cry 3. Okay, >> that's right. Yeah. So, >> it's just it's just funny because a lot of people thought the Scorpion might be playing a role in this movie. [laughter] >> They got they got rhinoed and they got the bait and switch that rhino. >> You did get rhinoed. >> I feel like Rhino had a bigger role, did he not? >> He did. Rhino did he said more lines. Yeah, he definitely had more lines of dialogue like and Spider-Man at least fought like Rhino properly like an even though >> Sam Adams to play him too. It was like, "Oh, wow. Look at that." >> What? >> Look, guys, >> at least we have Ned. >> Second president of the United States is right. >> It's a good reference. >> Okay, there you go. Um, so, uh, anyway, the the last thing in the montage, you see that Peter is buying flowers from from the John Adams, right? Is a really important one. >> Sorry, actually, I can't I don't want to prove because you're talking about the miniseries, are you? Or or am I completely overestimating what you're referencing? >> Yeah, it was just the miniseries. >> Yeah. Isn't that John Adams? >> Yes, it's John Adams, [laughter] the second president of the United States. I was I was sorry, I'm an alcoholic. I was thinking of Sam Adams, [laughter] the beverage. Uh, well, I'm glad we I'm glad we figured that out. >> So, I mean, like Rags is from Wales. I'm from Arkansas. It makes sense that that we'd get this. You know, >> I was referencing the other not the monsters, the other the other spooky group is what I was doing. >> [snorts] >> whichever one has or it. >> Peter's buying flowers and putting them at May's grave. That's the shot in the trailer where it's raining and it's it's it's all sad. We'll be back there, but it will be sunny because he will have gone on his ark, but we'll go back there. And that's the montage. Uh, so not great, not a great foundation for our story to sort of build upon. Um, a lot of it feels like it was just there for the trailer so that you could have all the shots of him fighting Spider-Man villains because he's not really fighting a Spider-Man villain in this movie, which isn't a flaw, but it is interesting given the criticisms that people leveled towards the John Watts films when all of them were Spider-Man villains and all of them were connected to Peter Parker in some significant way. >> It's a good way to describe it. It's not a flaw, but I'd say it's a probably just generally going to be a bad decision. He's got such a great cast of villains you could use. It'd be neat to lean into those. >> Tombstone for 30 seconds. Honestly, it's probably less than that, my man. It's probably like 15 seconds. >> I think it only has one line of dialogue. >> I think it only has the one line of dialogue. >> So, yeah, >> it it's it's tombstone. It's Boomerang, Tarantula, >> Scorpion. Yeah. And Scorpion. >> There's another dude who runs into a wall. Uh he's cuz I remember reading it >> like headbutts the wall. Yeah. >> Well, it was the Ramro said it was but I can't remember. >> Oh, you you call them Jug Juggernaut in >> Yeah. Point being they're all key jangles. None of them are uh anything for the audience or meaning or story or anything. >> Always the King Jangle, never the car. So, um, we have a scene where Peter, you know, but but it's Spider-Man on the phone with, uh, Detective Rivera, basically talking about like, oh, you know, the the the job, all of the stuff that they're getting up to. And basically, like kind of the point of all of this is again to reiterate that Peter doesn't have a personal life and is obsessed with vigilante work, which feels a bit redundant because that was kind of what the whole montage explicitly told us. Like, I don't know. It feels like it's a bit awkward for the first proper scene in the movie to kind of just be superfluous. >> Mhm. >> I I don't know why why these random like no no offense but why these random women keep showing up in these movies cuz she has basically no role. She she could be cut out from the movie. She I mean the only character >> Oh, that's why cuz in the >> in No Way Home we had that congresswoman or something and now now it's like the same character but a different character and I'm like what is going on? >> You talking about the admissions person for >> admissions? Oh, really? I I didn't I I didn't care to remember, but yeah, I felt like she had a similar somewhat. >> Well, uh she she was just whether or not they get a chance at MIT, right? Like the he wanted to make that his case to her. There's only the one scene as well, >> whereas this character's like in it more. >> Well, this as mentioned, she is superfluous. I don't see any point in her existence at all. >> Yeah. which is funny because it feels like she's sort of almost filling a Commissioner Gordon sort of role. It's like the connection between the vigilante and the police department. But um yeah, no, that's that's but uh and then and then there's a there's an alert, you know, there's there's something going on. We we got a big action scene that we have to get to. This is the first one proper because the story's actually beginning. And I figure that it will make our lives much easier talking about this film to essentially just get it out of the way immediately. Gan Gray is in this movie. Jean Gray is for most of the film >> the antagonist until until things flip in this in the third act that sort of recontextualize it. She's in the movie. >> You say recontextualize it like she's No, [laughter] >> we'll get there. We'll get there. So, so she's in the movie and uh she has the ability to mind control people by like hopping between them provided that they are within 33 ft of each other. That's her that's what she can do and that's what she is doing. It's it's um it's >> I'm going to I'm going to call it often I'm often going to call it flooping because it looks like flooping. Like when she transfers between people, they sort of floop forward. >> Yeah, they floop. Um, >> it's mind control, but it's probably closer to like possession basically. It's like 100% complete like total control over what they say and do. And that's what she that's that's her. She's in the movie and that's what she can do. And knowing that is going to make discussing the events of this movie far easier. Um, anyway, so Gan Gray mind controls an old lady into driving a tank through the streets of New York. >> Um, yeah. So there there's there's going to be a lot of we're going to be doing a lot of talking about Gan Gray. When I said that she's maybe the stupidest villain in the MCU, I understand that that's quite an accolade to have and that she has got some stiff competitions, but I think I think I'm really settling on her actually being the stupidest villain that we have. You get this in a lot of um you get this in a lot of like games. You get it in a lot of shows, a lot of movies where the villain has a power such that they like you you'd have to be mentally [ __ ] to lose. There's no way that Gan Gray should not be able to essentially get whatever she wants effortlessly without ever revealing herself. Um, we can sort of get to that once uh once it we sort of get to the motivation, the intention, the the the >> I figure that the first thing to acknowledge is just that as a as a statement. Gan Gray is making an old lady drive a tank through the streets of New York, plowing through cars, >> almost plowing through a bus filled with innocent people. >> Spider-Man stopped her from doing that. Those guns are just shooting as well. Yeah, she's firing. >> Oh, yeah. There's a lot of people died. Yeah, >> there's an army that has a minigun on the top. Most of the bullets cannon, >> to be clear, are missing cuz Spider-Man's not getting hit by the bullets cuz he'd be dead. Which means they're all going into the walls of the skyscrapers around us, which means Yeah, there's a good chance she's killed quite a few people. >> She's a terrorist. >> You see, you see like as she's slamming into these cop cars, they're going flying. One of them nearly hits a kid until Spider-Man saves him. So it's already game over on that front. People on Twitter are being profoundly stupid um on on this point to Yes. Yes. Basically in her heart is like you can't >> that is the unassalable point doing this >> and she does not give a [ __ ] if anybody gets hurt which they definitely do and the reality is is that people are dying. the idea like, oh yeah, no, people can just survive when a tank smashes into their car. Like we we're talking like levels of essentially absurdity in terms of argument there that you like you're just being stupid. You're being silly. You know, Billy >> through New York at all the buildings and it'll none of them will ever hit a person that ever, you know, it's I mean it's middle of the day. >> It is it is profoundly stupid. You don't have to defend this. You really don't. The big one is that she she she tries to drive the tank through like a bus that's got a bunch of tourists on it and Spider-Man stops that from happening. But she was going to do that. Innocent people just on this bus >> just going on a tour of New York. >> It's dire. And this is just the beginning. >> This is just the beginning. >> What you'll discover, of course, is that these things are all very necessary with her plan. >> Yes, >> she has to do this. this is the only way that she can achieve her goal. This is the only way of doing it is to make an old lady drive a tank through the streets of New York. >> Um cuz is totally right on this the stupid accusation, but I would just want to make sure it doesn't overthrow the evil accusation. She is ridiculously evil, >> which which I will say right out of the gate, what is going on? Why can't we write like cuz of course you guys already know where this is going. She will be absolved uh for doing this. I think you all know that that's the direction this is heading in. Um, this is Wonder all over again. >> This is Wonder all over again. As far as I'm concerned, >> well, it's worse than Wonder W, right? I assume we agree. >> Well, it is worse than Wonder because Wonder can at least hide behind some degree of mental floopery infection mind. Whereas in this case, this is just Jean's rational plans. >> [laughter] >> Okay. So, >> I'm I'm trying to think as excluding Thanos is any like other MC >> excluding Thanos [laughter] >> is where we're at. Like, we won't count Thanos, but >> Yeah. Is does any MCU villain have that high of a body count? >> Yeah, Captain Marvel. >> There. >> Yeah, Captain Marvel actually. >> But that's not a villain. Four genocides doesn't make you a villain. How many do you want? >> Oh, well technically >> nuts. Nuts has interesting opinions on [laughter] >> Yeah. Uh it's always about what the uh as to the heart, right? Like we'll never get a kill count, but uh Jean is from your actions clearly doesn't care if everyone on Earth would die. >> He does not care. >> She's a killer. >> Yeah. >> In fact, well, yeah. I want to be clear. It's not even a negligence thing. She enjoys it. She enjoys killing people. >> Yes, that's something [clears throat] that will sort of emerge is that she's pretty sadistic. Um she she's like a she has a massive ego. >> She will go out of her way to taunt Spider-Man. >> Um and it's it's it's kind of crazy like she which by the way that's fine if you want to have a villain who likes to villain and everything like that's that's kind of one of Spider-Man's rogues gallery things. Like the Green Goblin is famously cheeky and evil >> and that's why we love him to death. But >> but yeah, the thing is is that in in the case of Green Goblin and the nature of his relationship with Norman Osborne, it's like well it's it's it's a bit it's it's complicated in terms of them as as identities. And bear in mind the ending that he got in the first movie was getting impaled by his own glider. That's what happened to him. Yeah. >> Um he was hoisted by his own >> even if the [clears throat] movie villainized her like if we accepted it her as a villain if she was not there was not a tro [ __ ] me um a trial to redeem her I guess um the motivation her entire sort of reasoning behind it even as a villain still would make her the the most [ __ ] character ever. >> Oh yeah. I >> um we needed like this this is the only way to recover this [ __ ] character is to have Professor X roll in and be like Jean and put the mental blocks on her and be like holy [ __ ] we can never let her escape ever again. That was a monster. >> I I wonder if uh this this feels like something that I need to float cuz plenty of you guys in in in chat will know the comics. Um my understanding was that aside from the Phoenix force as an element like making her dark phoenix when you remove that that Gene is basically a paragon. Am I wrong? Cuz I've I've seen people saying that that is incorrect. That Gene is morally gray. >> I thought that the whole point was that she's actually a really good person and that's what makes Dark Phoenix so tragic. >> Yeah. >> I thought that's what they did in like the the X-Men trilogy, right? Wasn't she corrupted? >> You know, that's that's always what I'm Yeah. Everybody's saying that she's good. She's not morally great. She's pretty good. Almost always a good person. She's good. >> So people are lying to me. They are lying to me then when they say that um a quick Google. >> She is traditionally viewed as the emotional core and empathetic anchor of the X-Men prior prioritizing the protection of innocent life and the preservation of human mutant coexistence. That is [ __ ] hilarious I understand it. As I understand like a love triangle usually between Scott and uh and Gene and Emma Frost. That's gonna be awkward because it feels like Emma Frost, whatever she emerges as going forward, there's no way she's gonna be as evil as Jean was in this movie. >> I just I mean, we should just face it. With the level of writing in these movies, Emma Frost is going to be throwing fireballs. >> That is underrated comment. >> What they diamond? >> Yeah, diamond diamond skin like sort of thing, which means that you can't use like >> Don't you play Marvel Rivals? >> I guess. What? What's the opposite of diamonds? >> Uh, sludge goo. Like >> she's gonna have sludge goo skin. >> Bringy said it. Fringy said the word. Everyone. Fringy said he said it. >> No. >> You said your famous word. >> You said your word. >> Guru. That's right. >> Say your famous word. Say it. >> Yes. >> But yes. Okay. Anyway, so so yeah, amid amidst all of this, as as she as Gan Gray is plowing this tank into people and killing them, um Spider-Man gets hit by an explosive fired by Frank Castle. He's in his little van. He's chasing. Now, you had some thoughts on this. I know, Mubes. >> Yeah. Well, uh I was quite shocked that this was the first few seconds of Frank Castle because there's no We may as well skip because like there's questions to answer that you wouldn't necessarily have the answers to immediately, but we know the answers to them. He knows exactly who Spider-Man is. He not only has had many interactions with him, knows his reputation as like the savior of New York, the guy with the [ __ ] key to the city because of all the good work he's done dismantling all kinds of horrible criminal organizations. He saved Punisher's life. Uh this is all explicit. This is all >> um >> Staten Island. Yeah. >> And then we open with the Punisher fires a grenade launcher at Spider-Man. And a lot of people seem [clears throat] to think they're like, "Yeah, that's kind of how Frank likes that's like kind of how Frank is a friend. That's kind of what Frank does. like Frank knows you'll be fine. He's like, are we forgetting >> this is part of their cheeky banter? >> Spider-Man is not immune to a grenade launcher. It'll like [ __ ] him up. Uh, >> and I I've always understood that. Yeah, he's really strong, but like you can cut him. And I mean, shrapnel would be like a real concern if he gets hit by >> shrapnel. We got references all over the place. He can't take a bullet. And I'm not talking about a sniper bullet. I'm talking about regular bullets. He can't take them. If you get him in the head, he's dead. >> In this Oh. Oh. But funnily enough, in this movie, even when he gets his ultra super abilities that we'll talk about later, Yeah. he nearly dies from a gunshot wound. >> There's that, but also when I said that earlier with like >> he gets stabbed in this movie. >> Yep. >> Like if you if you if he can get all of that done, don't you think a grenade launch explosion is probably going to do some damage, if not [ __ ] kill him? >> Yeah. I mean over these movies we see he's constantly bloodied >> and in the Sonic scene he he has like bunch of bruises so he's like far from being invincible is very >> to be clear I'm not criticizing the film for having Spider-Man survive it. I'm okay with that. I'm criticizing Punisher for shooting a [ __ ] grenade launcher at Spider-Man. That makes no goddamn sense at all. It's completely out of character. It's extremely reckless and uh Punisher knows it could kill him. It's like I just that was like the first thing I see Punisher do. He's already out of character. Great. >> He's like actively stopping. >> I I feel like a way that it would be. Imagine that Dead was fighting some guys and then Punisher just shot just an outright a bullet at him. [laughter] Shot an actual [ __ ] gun at at Daredevil during the fight. Get out of the way, Red. I'm dealing with the Let me tell you something, you know, like I don't know. It just seems Yeah. But but we're doing we're doing banter. They have a bit of banter when he when they talk about Staten Island. >> We'll be coming back to Staten Island. But then but then Spider-Man talk, but that's just >> No. Yeah. >> But uh yeah, he kicks him out of his van and then shoots some web. I will say I don't think it makes sense that Frank can rip the webs off of his mouth. Maybe we >> the tensile strength the tens remember the tensile strength of Peter's webs is insane and it would dissolve after two hours. That's what was established >> and homecoming. >> Oh yeah, you need like a blade to get through them cuz that was actually something that came up like years ago. People like how can you cut through if you can't uh like stretch through but yeah >> but you came up because cap pulling on them. It was like why wouldn't they break? It's like cuz the tensile strength you can cut easily. His shield cuts through them, but you can't pull them apart. >> You can't pull them apart. Yeah. >> Yeah, but that's okay. Um, so yeah. So, Jean crashes the tank into a damage control detention center where Scorpion is being held cuz he's going to get transferred to another facility. The tank goes through, it flips, and it nearly crushes a bunch of people until Spider-Man swings in and saves them. >> So, Jean Gray just fluts. I mean, I just I feel like it's worth noting. He just drives a tank into a building with no idea who's on the inside. There are people on the inside and if Spider-Man wasn't there, they would have been crushed to death. >> And it's just like part luck as well that the fragile old lady who's driving this thing somehow, you know, is bulletproof in this. >> She lives, but she gets hurt though. She does get hurt cuz yeah, her her welfare is uh >> in trouble as well. something you noted Frankie, but there is a strange almost considering all variables uh attention to detail on people not getting killed by Jean in a lot of these scenes. >> It's like the it's it's this this language from the film making of like, don't worry, she didn't kill him. Don't worry. No, no, no one's dead there. No, not there either. >> But this this is why the narrative right now is you never see a body. >> You never see a body, guys. It was like um I don't think that's how that works. >> I don't number one, you don't you don't even need that. An intention to kill is an intention to kill. >> That's the criticism is the intention. >> Yeah. Whether whether or not it actually there's a reason why attempted murder is something that people get punished for. Not like, oh, well, you didn't you didn't succeed, so it's all good. >> You missed. You shot and you missed. So, [laughter] well, and then there's a thing called manslaughter. Even if you didn't intend. >> Mhm. But you did something that you knew any sensible person would know could cause grievous harm. >> Well, if she said I was just trying to shoot Spider-Man, I wasn't trying to shoot everyone else. It'd be like, um, >> oh, well, trying to kill Spider-Man is still [laughter] illegal. Um, obviously, but you know, >> we have Hulk taken to a [ __ ] insane asylum. >> Well, hold on. We'll we mean in previous movies, but yes. No, we we can talk about what she does to Mr. Bruce Banner cuz it's quite cruel. So, um yeah, Spider-Man opens the hatch and is stunned by seeing an injured old lady in the driver's seat. And so, Jean starts >> she starts floomping through multiple people. Um which Spider-Man notices his uh his his Spidey sense allows him to essentially notice that this is happening. Though, I will say, isn't it kind of interesting that at this point, Gene doesn't know, cuz this is something that will become apparent. She cannot get into Peter Parker's mind. She can't breach Spider-Man. >> But >> why wouldn't she immediately try and floop into uh into into Spider-Man? That is your best prospect right now. Floomp into him immediately. Take over him and go achieve your goal. >> This discussion is going to take a while because I there's like even more problems before that, believe it or not. Just >> like obviously it's like it's crazy that she doesn't take try to take over Spider-Man immediately. Like, okay. It's weird that she didn't try and do that. All right. Maybe there's some plan at work or this is some intention. >> The old lady was more important. >> But well, well, we need to talk about the old lady. Look. All right. I know I have a reputation to keep, but we need to talk about this old woman. We need to talk about grandma. [laughter] All right. We need to have a discussion about grandma. So, this isn't apparent on your first watch through because you don't know the nature of Jean Gray and what she's doing and everything, but there's a few things that come to mind. How did this happen? And I mean that like in earnest. How is there an old woman? How is grandma driving this armored car? Like, think about it in your head. How could Jean Gray through a chain possession gotten a grandma into the armored car? It means that at some point Gan Gray got within 33 feet of someone who is a grandma, right? Got into grandma and then without swapping to anybody else, not the driver who has the keys, not the people who guard this vehicle, cuz it's got like miniguns and [ __ ] It's like a war vehicle. All right. And how did the grandma get in the car? >> I think they do have a line for she's a janitor in the DODC. >> Yeah. But but to Rag's point, why in the world would you put a grandma in there instead of one of the people that's actually connected to functioning it because the grandma janitor probably would not be able to access and start that [ __ ] thing. >> But also this this gives this like instant gives the game away. It's it's the shock value of opening up >> grandma. Yeah. >> But by by Gan Gray doing this, she essentially reveals because I don't know if I I don't know if I believe the the stuff in the movie about, oh, Spider-Man notices this. It's like, well, I I'm noticing it because you're kind of making like I've seen movies and other people have seen movies. >> He has an evil smirk. He smirks very >> Jean's not >> the first thing that >> No, it's like the first thing you do is you like Oh, the hatch opens. It's grandma and Spider-Man is looking at you. So, you instantly show your powers in front of Spider-Man and how they work that you can essentially chain possess people revealing that that is the nature of your powers and there is a villain behind this. >> That was completely unnecessary. You should have never was unnecessary. >> A lot of what she does is unnecessary. >> It's a chain of stupid and unnecessary. >> It is so funny because Yeah. If if all you need to do is floop somebody who's within 33 ft, which is what like 10 >> What the [ __ ] is that in? >> It's like if you >> Yeah. Like so just walk next to the building and then floop into the guy if you really want to get into this building. But as we as will become clear, she doesn't need to go to this [ __ ] building. This is not where she needs to go. >> Why does grandma flume period? >> What do you mean? Why does she >> like when the like when grandma when when the hatch gets opened up and there's grandma there? >> Why does why does she have why does she flimp into someone else? She wants to flume so that she can get to the rooftop before Scorpion leaves so that she can inform the pilot that he needs to go to Belleview instead of Maxim or whatever. [laughter] >> We can then get him out of out of >> then. Yeah, she's going to go to Belle and possess someone to free which like we can talk about how none of this makes any [ __ ] sense at any I don't know when you want to do that, but like there's so many things. >> I think that we should wait until we find out like what she's actually trying to get. Sure. >> I think uh I think at that point we can come back to all of this. >> I was gonna say this there's got to be an efficient way to do this, right? Do you want to just skip Jean until we get more information or because like >> this I I want to keep talking about how Yeah. No, all I'll do is just keep pointing out that she is doing this and she's flooping around >> just so that you know all of the horrible evil things that she does. That's that's kind of the point so far is to just illustrate that every horrible thing that happens it is Gene doing it just horrible evil and just grossly unnecessary. If your goal is to get into a building, why flimp to a grandmother to get into an APC to drive the APC through the streets to run the APC through the walls of the building if that's how you want to get in. >> Open to somebody who want and walk through the door like a normal welladjusted human being. You psycho. >> Just walk through the door. They specifically designed these architectural apparati for the transversal through walls. You could just walk through the door. >> All you need to do is if there's a gate, there's probably a guard on the other side. Just flimp to him and then you'll pass the gate. You're all good. >> Yeah. Then you can just walk in the rest of the way. You're a guard. You're meant to be. >> But even cuz we're about to get in the next minute to do She's doing this right now at this moment. She desperately needs to get to Scorpion's helicopter pilot. You're like, "Why didn't you just do it way earlier so that you could guarantee that?" But then also, why send him to Belleview instead of just having them walk him outside? >> Yeah, exactly. I don't know. Seems like easy, really. But okay. Anyway, but she she does she does floop her way to the roof and tells tells Scorpion, "Yeah, take him take him elsewhere." And and Scorpion realizes that something's up. Even he's like, "Hm, what the [ __ ] is what is this?" But that's uh that's not going to do him any favors later when he he gets his life ruined by her. Um and so Spider-Man gets the roof and Gene attempts to throw the guard off of the roof, but Spider-Man saves a fell and webs up. And then Gan now finally decides that she's going to try and enter Spider-Man's mind since he would be a much better prospect for doing anything than Scorpion would be under this particular framing because there's a much better way of achieving her goal than even trying to get Spider-Man to do it. But uh she can't get in. She can't get into his head. Doesn't work. Uh and then she reveals that she placed a bomb inside of the tank which detonates >> which nobody started. Obviously, nobody investigated that. As soon as it crashed in and was neutralized, nobody thought, "Oh, we should probably check to see if there's anything wrong with that." >> And she really needed to have that bomb. >> Hear the beeping. >> Yes. And she's really happy about it. She's smirking. She She loves it. J says like you didn't you didn't like check or ask why what I put in the tank as though that was intuitive in any way. >> It's not it's not intuitive that you put a bomb in there. Particularly when we find out what your motives are where I'm going. Like why would you do that? What the [ __ ] is going on? >> Other than just because she feels like killing people. >> She gains nothing. >> Um >> why does why do Peter Spidey senses not hear the beeping that we hear of the bomb? Uh >> Mhm. >> because I don't know cuz cuz he ain't he ain't flooping yet with his own like problems with his powers. That's that's coming later. Like Yeah. He had a headache before but his his >> Well, it does but you know >> but even like baseline sensitivity like we could hear it >> but uh yeah. No, that's that's it. And uh probably killed some people uh or at worst, you know. And also it feels like it's worth noting Gene not killing somebody but turning them into a paraplegic is not like somehow dramatically like oh well that's okay just this is again injuries are horrible uh injuries ruin lives some of them so the idea of like oh well Jean she didn't kill anybody she just horribly injured them like the idea that that's somehow better or some some out whatever anyway um and then uh then Jean disappears which uh this is something that feels like it's important to note spider man sees this that Jean, you can't like trap her [snorts] in a person. She can like abandon any person at any time that she wants. She can't be trapped. >> Just keep that in mind. >> Yep. Keep it in mind. That's how they're setting up the rules. >> And so, uh, yeah, we got Spider-Man. He's, you know, it's the as as sort of the the recap on the scene. He's checking in on everybody, including the mind controlled guy as he gets put in an ambulance. probably has he's probably going to get [ __ ] over by this cuz he's he's frantically apologizing and declaring that he loves Spider-Man. He would never hurt Spider-Man. >> He also says something very specific which is I don't remember any of it. >> Yes. And this is something that Peter doesn't log for some reason. For some reason, >> it will only it'll only be something that he thinks about. And this is the first of a few people that will point this out >> to the lastly or implicitly. This guy can't remember anything from when he got floomed. >> It is also important to note that as an audience, we all know what's happening here. Something's jumping between people to possess them. Like, it's very it's very clear that that's what's happening. So, >> if I know it, >> Peter should know it. >> Especially when he lives in this universe where that is definitely possible. >> And he's a mega insano genius man who with five 5,000 million IQ. >> Um, he should he should know instantly that this is what's happening. >> I know it. He should know it. >> And so, um, Rivera. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Go ahead. You might be just you're I think you're getting into it. Oh, well it's just uh Rivera, Detective Rivera tells Spider-Man what we talked about before. Scorpion got taken to Belleview and escorted out the front door by a guard. The old lady was a janitor at the damage control facility where they had a tank and does not have a criminal record. And so she puts forward, I guess Scorpion got to the janitor and made her do this. But Spider-Man doesn't say, "Oh, no, no, no. I know what it is. It's mind control." Like it's basically possession. He he he just doesn't know. He's not sure. He feels like he needs to talk to someone about it, >> which is great. >> He should just say, "Listen, I know this is going to sound crazy, but we live in a crazy wacky world. All right, here is what happened. The lady did a thing to another person, and then something is clearly controlling people one at a time in a row and making them do things. First off, it explains everything. I'm telling you, I saw it." the police woman. She would believe Spider-Man by the name of >> Sorry, I got her name. It's the wolf. That's the name of detective lady. Yeah, the wolf. Not Rivera. The wolf. >> The wolf should believe the spider when he explains all of these. >> Yes. Not not to be confused with wolf. Wolf. The eap the fella. [laughter] >> Trapper wolf. The person ruining. >> Yeah. Not trapper. >> I think I think >> it's crazy how deep of a reference that is. It hasn't that long. I think I'm just going to poach that from chat. I think I'm going to call her Trapper Dewolf. >> Trapper [laughter] Dewolf. >> Detective. Yeah. So, he's talking to Detective Trapper Dewolf and uh Yeah. No, he he goes he goes off to uh he goes off to a spa uh which serves as Yolena's office and um and she's sitting at she's Yeah. So, Yolena is at this spa. That's her office. She's sitting in the spa and she tells Spider-Man to take off his clothes or else she won't speak to him. And the pretext is that Yolena wants to see that he has no weapon, seemingly not realizing that this is Spider-Man. >> Pretty weird >> that she's talking to >> She just wants to see his dick. >> It's very It's very weird. And I feel like we don't even need to explain why it's weird. It's incredibly weird. Hey, Spider-Man, take off your clothes or else I won't talk to you. >> We'll just reverse the roles there and would that be acceptable? And also, by the way, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure they CGI his underpants on. >> Um cuz I I like I'm pretty sure they do. I think so because he like he he he puts on a towel and he's very guarded about the towel, but he takes it off and he's got underpants on. It's like, oh well, >> you know, I don't know. You know what I mean? It's like if it was like the scene probably got shot the other way and then someone said, "This is weird. This is incredibly weird." And they're like, "Well, I mean, we shot it, so put some underpants on or something so that it's less awkward." >> That's it would be kind of out of character for him to flip. You know, >> what does that look like on someone's CV? So, what did you do for that Spider-Man movie? Well, I um spent 17 hours looking at Tom Holland's dick and uh getting rid of it for the movie. I assume he would have been wearing like a skin colored pants or whatever shot from behind. It's the shot from behind, but it's it's the fact that they cut away >> they cut away when he gets out of it at the end of the scene. It's like you why would you even be worried about that when like if he's wearing underpants and you shot it with him wearing big black underpants that it would like it would be fine. You'd have nothing to worry about on that front. Part of what's interesting about this is that there were rumors and leaks about what this film had in it. And uh some of the early ones I heard was that those two see each other naked in it like completely and that's like it was supposed to be a funny bit. >> I think I think I think it makes way more sense that they didn't like that and somebody was like this is [ __ ] weird and they're like well >> yeah. Okay. Put some put some underpants on them. CGI some underpants on them and then we're good. >> Why did we arbitrarily decide to put them in this scenario? Oh, who could we blame for our own arbitition? Well, it's it's because Yolena is quirky. She's quirky and she's got a Russian accent and that's what and and she's dry. So, she's an awesome character. >> Some kind of like, oh, she doesn't have anything to hide sort of thing. Like, she's a blatantly honest person. >> But to make someone else who's clearly uncomfortable do that is is wrong. >> Oh, yeah. >> Is what it is. It's wrong. >> Um, >> you could even count. >> Well, >> very easily. >> Yeah. But but the thing is is that there's someone else in this movie who does something much more sinister on that front. So we we'll get to that >> relatively relative what that character does. >> Well, yeah, but I mean on that front we'll get there. It's just incredibly weird. Um and also again it doesn't even like if it's like oh yeah, no weapons. It's like dude Spider-Man. The [ __ ] you going to do to Spider-Man? You're later. [laughter] What can you do to him? >> It was any other character, right? if it was like Captain America or someone like I I wouldn't be bucked by this at all. But Peter Parker, it's if they attempted to film him like imply that he got naked. It's just it's so out of character for me. I just can't imagine ever. I assume it tested badly and then they cut it. So this scene may have began with maybe her being very like like viewably naked from his POV but not from the audiences and then she goes into the pool and then asks that he do the same thing. And that's you can cut around it to make it not look that way. >> Why would you do this? Especially >> it's Spider-Man in particular. It's Spider-Man. Spider-Man's meant to be a particularly accessible like an accessible kidfriendly sort of superhero. >> If this was like Tony Stark character, it would just be like back and forth. Like they're both cheeky and kind of like, haha, he he okay, sure, let's get naked. But >> Peter Parker, come on. Like it's crazy. I just >> Yeah. But but anyway, so >> Lawrence, we got you a cameo in the new Spider-Man movie. Take your top off. >> So what happened? What we got in this is that uh Yolena essentially is very dismissive about uh this situation. The damage control situation is small fry and it's not her concern because she's a new Avenger dealing with big fry stuff. >> And it's like, oh, okay. Do you know what damage control does? Do you know like the resources they have, the technology they have? This is big fry. the idea that this is small fry. Number one, this is not true. >> In total, what references are available are uh several buildings. I think she says four before the one that we see in the movie have been compromised in the form of like broken into or destroyed. Uh you know, major military material is just being, you know, captured and used to blow up home cities like streets. Then you've got someone who's able to at the very least from Hippov uh perform demonic possession is just is just going around on on potentially high ranking members of the DODC. So this this seems pretty serious I would say like like and this is just the beginning too. >> We don't know what they're actually trying to do, you know, and they're doing it and they released Scorpion. Uh so that's probably not good. Like, >> no, no, no. It's it's trying to give a reason why she's not, >> you know, the small fry thing is so funny because she's saying that to Spider-Man who's about a hundred times more effective than she is, and she wouldn't be able to defeat this problem. >> I mean, she can hit with batons and stuff. Spider-Man is Spider-Man. Spider-Man >> well above her weight and height for like all of her appearances. It's absurd. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, it's just funny because again, it's the new Avengers, which is just a dead end. That's like a narrative dead end. But okay, we Yeah, Yolena is great. And so yeah, then you cuz basically Spider-Man wanted to talk to Yolena because he thought it was like red room mind control or or that it would be her wheelhouse. And she says that it's less like mind control and more like possession. And then she Yeah. talks about that that this is the fourth attack on a damage control facility. People Someone access damage control databases and search for the term BMAX. And then she's like, "Oh, but this is not my problem. It's yours. You go get the" and then tells him to [ __ ] off. Basically, >> which is >> basically like that moment is a character assassination for what there was if there was anything with her character. >> When Tony said this to Peter, he was referring to a guy who was scavenging like broken materials from damage control shipment containers and some people were maybe getting them to rob like cash machines. Well, and and in his view, that was still too much for Spider-Man. It's like, no, no, no. That'll be that'll be something. >> Well, yeah. Once it evolved, he actually got involved. That's the crazy thing. It was he got involved, but Iron Man involved >> because the FBI were >> Yeah. My point being, right, like it was not only way smaller when he said that this is this is like you should get involved in lowlevel stuff, but he eventually was like, "Okay, I I've got to see what this is." >> Yeah. Exactly. And that was and that was not as important as this is. This is somebody with mind control powers that are extreme that is trying to access like this crazy technology. And the idea like well that's Yeah. No, that's that's and it's and it's funny because it's like we deal with big fry stuff. It's like yeah like what what are you doing right now? What's going on? Please tell me what is going on right now during the events of this movie that is so important that you need to be involved in compared to this that's in your backyard. >> They'll explain it in Thunderbolts 2 coming to a theater. >> Oh yeah, that'll Yeah, that will never happen. >> The new Avengers. >> Um >> it's just that the movie >> the nude Avengers. >> The movie first of all is like trying to play this off as comedically. So, we shouldn't take this too seriously because Yelina is so funny. But, uh, behind that, it's just like it's banking on the fact that, oh, yeah, she's just too busy to to work. But the this scene is its own counter argument because the only thing we see in her in in this movie her do >> is in a spot. Yeah. >> Sit. Yeah. So, she has plenty. >> So, basically, she >> she can, but she doesn't want to, which Which again, it's awkward when she's just been told that it it it I mean the thing it is mind control. It is which is something that she has personal experience with and it ruined her life. Traumatized the [ __ ] out of her. So you would think that this in particular would just incense her. But no, she doesn't give a [ __ ] >> Nope. >> She don't care. And if you're like, "Yeah, but this is a Spider-Man movie." It's like, I don't know. Don't write don't don't put her in the movie then. Why would you put her in the movie then? If this this problem, you could say that I don't know. she's in a different country. You could do like anyway, whatever. But yeah, >> um that's the scene though. And >> I want to mention one other one of the biggest problems I have with the scene. I don't know if you you might have mentioned this. I when introduction cuz I I I was distracted. But uh yeah, did did you guys mention about the mask thing? Well, >> there's nothing with the mask, but the fact that he comes in and told this to Muller, it it's just my biggest issue with him being behind the mask this entire movie is how would Yelena know who the [ __ ] he is cuz it could be any guy in a Spider-Man suit and they didn't they don't even ask him for proof or anything. It's just like, "Yeah, of course you're Spider-Man." >> Just tell him to do a flip. >> Yeah. Triple. >> Nothing like that happens. And this happens over and over again in this movie. Just people just believe him, >> which is so profoundly stupid. >> And I it's such a huge I I do consider it I don't consider it as a nitpick. I consider a huge plot hole. >> Someone in chat has pointed out I thank you for not letting me forget it. I'm pretty sure there are shots in that with the mask is CGI >> and that's it. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. >> Like you can you can see it does the thing when it's CGI where it doesn't track totally accurately. So, um, yeah, it's it's just a bit awkward. Like, ah, yeah. It's so such a practical movie. It's like, dude, it's it's filled with CGI. It's not very good. Anyway, um, Spider-Man heads to our damage control headquarters. And so, he goes for a scanner, which uh identifies his arachnid hormones. This is very important, the arachnid hormones. >> Um, >> I just assume that those were always a part of him. Well, the thing is is I don't know we ever we ever got into specifically like essentially the nature of like what his anatomy is, like what his biology is, but this is the way that it's broken down is that he's got he's got like human hormones and then arachnid hormones and they can be like charted on two separate graphs. And this will be important to keeping track of uh the eventual changes to his abilities that will manifest. But in any case, um they all point guns at him. He's ordered at gunpoint to take off his mask and it takes uh the director of the Department of Damage Control, Bill Metser. He he comes along and he he deescalates the situation. Um so it's like, yeah, it's all good. And and so he takes he takes Spider-Man upstairs and they bump into a group of ninjas and Mezer explains that the hand now works for the Department of Damage Control. >> Okay. Yeah, >> you got them to work for the Department of Damage Control but not learn English. Interesting. >> What is the um I love the fact that they're just walking around the office >> in ninja outfit. >> They're just in the office. It's so funny. [laughter] >> Oh, [clears throat] don't worry. They're good now. They use their powers for justice. >> I'm not even kidding. That is a primo office joke. Like Michael Scott hired security and they're just ninjas and they stand there. He's like, "Yeah, I think they're they're doing great." >> I've seen those movies. ninjas. >> Also, that line you just said there, like, "Oh, I hired some ninjas. They're just good now." That's kind of the actual line in the film. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Doesn't get much better than that. >> It's close to what he says. It is. >> And um there's a whole bunch of familiar tech. We even see the shockers gauntlet because that will that will come back later in the movie. Um and uh and basically Mezer explains the damage controls mission is to redirect destructive technology and abilities towards noble causes. And um you know we'll learn more about what that means. And then uh and then they just talk about essentially what we already know which is that they're facing a threat which nobody can see or combat [clears throat] except for Spider-Man who seems to be impervious to whatever it is. And just outside of uh the office sits a giant vault and Spider-Man wonders aloud if the bad guy is trying to access that vault. Um it is pretty funny that this is said because there isn't actually like anything relevant in that vault. The only reason it becomes relevant is because people decide to go into that vault to hide. So it's kind of like a a red herring I guess is what you could say about that. Um, and then uh because Meza says, you know, there are things that even he can't share with Spider-Man, but they should work together. And before Spider-Man leaves, he asks Mega if V-Max means anything to him. And Meta says no. >> And he is telling the truth. >> Yeah, he is telling the truth. But to be clear, he does give him like instructions. And I was [ __ ] blown away at this point in the movie cuz I was like, have we have we actually just had a scene where Spider-Man is taking instructions from DeWolf and then a scene where he takes instructions from Yolena and then a scene where he takes instructions from Meza. Like what in the [ __ ] happened? >> I thought he was supposed to be his own man, dude. Like what the hell? >> That's how he he's he's Matska boy. He's Yolena boy. He's [laughter] the wolf boy. >> The wolf boy. The the pup. >> Yeah. >> So, there's there's another issue here as well. Um that should be kind of playing into every scene going forward. But, um so, uh Peter should maybe be thinking in the back of his mind that any person that he talks to could be possessed. >> Of course. >> Nah, >> that would make sense. >> Or a scroll. >> Yeah. So, >> or a scroll. Yes, that's right. because the we we haven't gotten any update on the war the the righteous war against the infiltrators that have taken over [laughter] >> they just funny because who is who is the president in the MCU because that guy was in and then Fury said he'd be a one-term president and that was true and then we got um now Ross is in jail well he's in jail so who is the president now uh >> Ross is VP Who was that? >> I think it was uh Waldrich. >> Oh, was it? Was it Wald? >> No, but I could imagine imagine the New York uh mayor ticket where it's like Bisque versus Walreg and you [laughter] have to vote for one of them. Like what do you like? You could >> feel like I mean that's an easy choice. I imagine you were trying to make it like in the Simpsons where it's, you know, Kang versus Kurtos, like you have to vote for one of us. And then Homer's like, I voted for Kurtos before getting whipped as >> we're obviously team Waldri all the way. It's not even close. >> Got to vote for our boy Walri. >> So for Wald, >> that's the end of that. That's the end of that scene. And so now we've got uh we've got Peter in a in a in a I'm not wrong, right? It is a bodega. That's what he's in. like a convenience store, but it's a New York convenience store. I just want to get the terminology correct. >> Yeah. >> He's in there. >> Something like that. Yeah. >> And he's munching on some food and he's on the phone with Dwolf uh >> and says uh that Eevee is running facial recognition on a bunch of cameras around the city looking for Scorpion. And Dwolf points out this is illegal, but nothing will come of this. >> Oh well, >> don't worry about it. There are no ethical concerns to be had. >> He's doing He's doing the dark. >> He's doing the Batman. Yeah, the Batman. >> At least in the Dark Knight, they recognized, man, this is like this could really be abused. This thing that we're doing, you know, briefly discuss it. >> What do they say explicitly that it's doing? Like >> it's Eevee is like accessed all the cameras throughout New York and is like scanning faces to look for Scorpion. >> [laughter] >> Oh yeah, it is. It is. Yeah, >> there's a central database that's scanning everybody in this. >> I do enjoy that. Yeah, but Spider-Man's a good guy though, so it's okay if he violates [laughter] the prime. >> So I've already seen everybody. >> The overwhelming praise for this film is is happening. But there are some, let's just say, comments about, "Wait, did Spider-Man do it?" And you're like, "Yeah, he did. >> Yeah, he did. Yeah, >> did he did everything. And then and then that's gonna overwhelm the praise of this film eventually once the hype dies down. >> Will um >> Oh, and speak. >> Yeah, go for it. >> Does Peter's personal AI run on drinkable water, too? [laughter] >> Or >> Oh, well, yes, that is awkward. Peter Peter Parker is pro AI. So, that is uh >> haven't clear. Did he create this one? >> He did. Yes. >> He's very smart because the film says he's smart. He doesn't do any smart things. The film just said he has done smart things. >> Yeah, it's a great choice to have him create an incredible, amazing, top-notch, unstoppable AI offscreen that then solves problems that he could have solved if he were just more intelligent. >> And also, he keeps it to himself. He doesn't apply for like medical research or anything. It's just him. >> Interesting fellow that, Pete. >> Good for him to have an employee on the file for tax. It's funny cuz like if if such a guy existed, right, and the public got to know that that same superhero of theirs was using AI for most of his work, he would be cancelled in no time and like [ __ ] on all over. >> You're not you're not using that AI you made for anything unethical, right? Like no. Oh no, no, not at all. Just to >> He's just a bit lonely with Wordle. Does >> this make him in some ways worse than Iron Hart? cuz you know she actually has a line at the beginning of her show where she says you know I need all of these resources so I can do stuff like you know healing the sick and feeding the hungry whereas he seems not to have contemplated any of that at all. He doesn't steal that we know of so he's improving like he's an improvement in that respect but in terms of his moral conscience like doesn't seem to have like a very global view all these other uses to which his technology could be put and is not. Yeah, I I think this movie makes uh Peter uncomfortably close to being somewhat on the level of Iron Hart, which is >> icon. He's iconic. >> Yeah. >> Um so Ned enters the bodega. This is seemingly a pure coincidence cuz this is just the one that Peter goes to all the time to get his flowers. So Ned is here. Um, I'm not wrong, right? This is just a pure 100% coincidence that I think it is a coincidence. Yes. >> Um, how big is Manhattan? Is how many isn't it like 12 km long? How many are there in New York? >> Probably for like every three people, right? >> Yeah. Like I assume that there's a lot of them. Um, I mean, isn't there like isn't like like five million? New York. How many people live in New York? Is it like like if you add up like Manhattan, it's like two or three million people in like Manhattan alone or like 1 million at least, >> you know, a lotion of people live there. Um, so yeah, that's that's just crazy. >> 8 million people. >> Well, that's like the entirety cuz the metro era is like 20 million or something, isn't it? It's like I mean it's it's one of the biggest world >> anyway. >> Yeah. The point being this is a certified and then moment >> very much an and and and bear in mind this is so [ __ ] important. This is what essentially sets off the big metamorphosis in uh I feel like I got that word wrong. >> Yes. So and then Yes. And then Ned enters the bodega and he he Peter's watching him as Ned tells the clerk not to sell him any energy drinks which he may come back to buy anyway to help him study for his exams. And then he buys a can. He buys it anyway. Talks himself into it. It's like, "Oh, Ned, silly you." >> Our favorite character. >> And so then Peter stalks Ned back to his apartment uh where he's uh throwing a big party. Um, and he and he goes inside into this party and he finds a big board on the wall that's dedicated to uncovering the identity of Spider-Man. And Ned comes out and bumps into Peter and he explains that Spider-Man saved his life a few times during high school and he just wants to find him and thank him. So that's like your first sort of explicit thing of Yeah. Okay. So he remembers Spider-Man being essentially relevant to his life, but I guess he doesn't, which I guess I guess the way that you'd reconcile that is magic. wearing the suit when he was work shopping like when the other Peters came in you know and and they were working because he must not remember them either he I mean if he doesn't remember Peter Parker you know Peter one he can't remember two or three either I would assume >> I think anything I guess the magic would know that well even though we have the very last we'll get there but I assume that the magic was like if that would draw the a connection between the two it is a race with something else I guess that's the nature of the magic >> I will say though. Um I I I wrote something down because I legitimately don't know the answer. Unironically, in the Disney cannon, he picks up like a Chewbacca Lego piece because, you know, we they built the Death Star and Homecoming. Oh my gosh. Does the sequel trilogy exist in the MCU? >> Probably. >> I would assume yes. >> Probably. >> Yeah. >> It's just they only ever reference the OT with all of their Star Wars stuff. >> Yeah. But that they do that anyway. Yeah. So, I was I was curious. I didn't know if there was some sort of a political upheaval or because Obama only got one term or whatever which really don't exist like there's a domino effect of no Ray Skywalker. >> You were hoping that this Nightmare wielders at least spared that but no they they >> got blipped. Maybe sequel maybe Ray Skywalker got blipped. >> Maybe I guess I guess the blip the blip would have happened when The Rise of Skywalker was um was like in production or about to come out cuz that was 2018. >> Oh that would have stopped it. Thanos was a hero. >> Well, it is it is interesting because there will be a Thanos thing that comes up later that is [ __ ] bizarre, but we will uh [ __ ] hell. >> It's really awkward. Anyway, [laughter] >> had another continuity question though. Does Ned remember he's a wizard? >> I forgot. >> Does Ned remember he met Doctor Strange? Yeah, strange. >> I forgot that I was a wizard. >> Cuz the thing is is that certain things like like uh no, look, we don't need it's [ __ ] Okay, it's [laughter] just >> all you need to know is that it's [ __ ] >> very well. >> And and to be fair to this movie, it is a problem in No Way Home. That spell is it's just absurd. >> Even though it can facilitate a decent, you know, payoff for the character. >> Oh yeah. The best thing to do is to just move forward, grin and bear, and just don't talk about it. >> Don't don't draw our attention to it. This film does. So, that is it. That is its failing. Um, anyway, Ned Ned has created an app called Spidey Tracker, which uh so he he So, they share that in common. They like stalking people. It triangulates Spider-Man's [clears throat] location with like reported sightings and he >> So, it does that with other people who have the app would just say like, I just saw Spider-Man swinging by here. >> People have the app. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then that like triangulates it basically. That seems to be the way that it works. >> If that kept going for a while and everyone was pretty good at reporting it, they would be able to figure out where he lives. >> They figure them out. >> Oh, of course. >> Oh, they would figure it out in like two days. >> Yeah, >> it seems like he always Yeah. You'd see like the little It looked kind of like a spiderweb would he always leaves from his house. So, he goes in a line to a place kind of and he always certain way. It's like the heat map. >> Yeah. It' be the heat map of all his locations would centralize always coming. >> Maybe though that data is is ruined by the fact that this scanner can detect things in other universes. So perhaps the data isn't very >> false. To help people understand the postredit scene, um we see the Spidey tracker has him like somewhere in space. That's the postredit scene. Spider-Man is somewhere in space. >> Ned's a really good programmer. >> Yeah, I know. That's that's crazy. Um anyway, he does have two prime suspects. >> Supergirl uses his hat. He has two prime suspects for who who it is. Uh Roger Harrington, uh the teacher, and Flash Thompson, which is mildly amusing. It didn't make me laugh. I don't even think it made me smile, but it was mildly >> made me giggle. Did the Did the second grenade launcher make you smile? >> No. That's one thing that made me laugh and it's really close to the end of the movie. And I'm almost ashamed that I laughed cuz I don't >> cuz like I don't like you can't control that. It it was a Frank Castle related laugh. So he >> he is the comic relief in the film. Frank, >> he is he's a goober. He is a goober. >> I feel like that's the role that the Punisher should have. >> Yeah. The comic relief. >> They've already [laughter] figured it out. >> Yeah. Anyway, um MJ Oh, yeah. >> I want to add about Ned that if I was Peter in Pier's position, right, and I've been like yarning for my friends for so many years and I came to see them finally and I saw that, I'd be like, "Okay, time to go. I don't want to deal with this person anymore." It's just so >> weird. This Ned is mentally unstable. You're constantly yelling at Peter to like, "Drop it. Leave them alone. Don't go anywhere near them. Stop. We had a movie about this. Quit. Stop. You're regressing." >> He's also got the disheveled sort of like broken man desperate look. And I was like, "Oh no." I was hoping we wouldn't do it this way. Jeez. >> He's like, "Ah, jeez. I'm so close. I just got to say hello." [laughter] >> Stop it, Peter. Stop it. So, um MJ enters the room and a stunned Peter offers her maze flowers as a housewarming gift. And uh MJ introduces himself. Peter doesn't reveal his real name. The conversation ends very awkwardly and MJ led led Ned leave the room. [laughter] And so, um, yeah, >> I, uh, I Peter told, um, Zenaya his name. >> He didn't say >> at the end. Well, no, he he says he says something like Ma. I think he says Mayo, like he's from Maine. >> Mayo. >> No, no. Previously at the end of Far or at the end of No Way Home in the coffee shop. I think he's he says his name. >> He says I'm Peter Parker. >> Oh, yeah. To write it on the coffee. 10 out of 10 that that she wouldn't remember that even though she does remember it later, which is kind of funny, but uh you know >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh but yeah, that's that's it. And so uh Peter watches as MJ tells Ned she turned down a job on moral ground. She says that something's telling me I'm supposed to be waiting for something great. >> She said she doesn't want to work for a Solless Corporation, but she did go into an interview to work there. So yeah, between those between those two points, she learned something. At some point she realized not. And then uh >> MJ's boyfriend Ezra Bridger enters the frame. It's Ezra Bridger from Ahsoka. >> Oh, >> that's [laughter] who that is. >> Yeah. >> I thought he looked familiar, >> but in a really forgettable sort of way. >> Yeah. And I went >> and then >> remember I wrote here I it's it's funny in hindsight especially, but I was watching it. I wrote the note. I I'll quote myself. I really hope that this story is about Peter learning to let go of MJ and being happy for her. >> Yeah. >> No, he he's not happy. He sees them kiss and he is uh >> he he go he goes on tearfully existentially crisisy swinging around New York in the rain while recalling all of his memories. Yes. And um the visual effects in this sequence are terrible, but we're going to have to wait uh a couple of months before anybody admits that that's the case. It looks horrible. There's a part where like he swings up towards the camera and it's as bad as the one that people made fun of in Supergirl. It's like you grab him almost like as a PNG with a transparent background and just zoom it [laughter] in. >> You just scale it upwards like you you just stretch it out like it looks like it's getting closer when you're just making it bigger. >> It looks horrible. [laughter] Um, it looks so bad, but nobody's really right now. >> Make up their minds as well because you know when mixtape goes black and white and has you float through cuz it's sad, it's like everyone knows that's cringe and horrible, but when Spider-Man does it, it's fine. It's not >> Rockford. Yeah. >> Mhm. It's just it's just so I I mean, yeah, this feels like it was made for Twitter Spider-Man fans, this scene. Look, it's Peter Parker and he's crying in the rain about how horrible his life is. >> See, he's miserable. He wants to kill himself. Aren't you happy? [laughter] >> But it's practical. Yeah, it's practical how the background is entirely fake. Yeah. No, it's it's super pract like, you know, getting ahead of myself here, but pretty much all of these scenes where it's actually like somebody in front of a green screen doing the swinging look really bad. Um, for the most part, it looks very fake. Um, maybe John Watts had a point that when you do it like that, it kind of looks a bit [ __ ] compared to if you just animate the whole thing. Maybe it should be animated so that you can get all of the cool dynamic poses that you get in the Spider-Man comics. But oh well, >> it helps to It helps that there's less of a contrast that you notice when >> that's the main thing. When you put something real When you put something real amongst everything else being fake, >> it often looks worse than if you just >> Yeah. Thanks for the frame of reference for reality right there. No, I mean it is funny. It's it's the reason why a lot of trailers like CG trailers for games look really good. Even though like they're not actually photorealistic, >> but like because everything is animated, there's nothing that comes out in a way that's distracting. It's like very cohesive compared to >> that's the thing that's going on in your, you know, your game with it. You're going to operate on its level. >> But yeah, and so uh then then Peter goes to his apartment, his arm seizes up. It's got a big old floopy vein there. And uh he sees that in the reflection. His eyes are black. >> Holy [ __ ] >> What is going on? >> And he tries to get up, >> but he falls to the ground. >> Uh and then >> what could be? We're about to find out. But before that, we have uh he recalls it's a memory of a conversation that happened between him and May, which occurred sometime after he acquired his powers and she found out that he's Spider-Man. Um, we'll come back to this scene later, but she says, "You think you don't have to listen to me now that you have powers? You know, this whole thing can get really scary and things can change very quickly in ways we can't even imagine right now." Very long sentence. And uh, Peter says that he knows and May says, "I don't think you do know." But that's all we're getting now cuz we'll come back to this scene later. And Peter wakes up in a web cocoon attached to his apartment building >> on the outside. Yeah. >> And the outside. and he falls out of it and he tries to shoot webs, but there's he doesn't have his web shooters. So then he he falls he smacks into the the fire escape and that looks horrible. Looks absolutely terrible. Um and then uh and then he he stops cuz he shot an organic web out of his wrist before hitting the ground. >> He's blew just out his wrist. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I've always heard the organic webs, by the way. >> I Oh. Oh, I I wholeheartedly disagree. Absolutely totally disagree. I way prefer web shooters than organic webs. >> I like that organic webs. >> Is it like um >> so for me for me it's like um well we can we can get into So the main thing for me is that web shooters as a thing that he has means number one that there's like a finite nature to it typically that often needs to be accounted for. Web shooters can be destroyed which is something that he needs to account for as well. Um, and uh I also don't necessarily >> with organic webs, right? Like he can run out. He has to like grow more. >> Well, the thing that Well, the thing that they do with the organic webs was like for the Spider-Man 2 thing, right? Where like his uh where it's like he's having a problem with his abilities and so then it stops the web shooting. But I'm talking almost more just like a pure logistics uh thing. there's more to be accounted for logistically almost inherently with web shooters because of the fact that they're artificial and there's a specific like device that um that can be destroyed. >> There's a lot more like projectile options like ammo types that can come into play as well which don't get used a huge amount but have been used notably in in earlier Spider-Man movies. Um, but I I think you can make either one of them work. But my thing is I think you know if once you've established that he uses web shooters, I think [clears throat] just because theme demands it, you probably shouldn't then change your mind and say no, he has organic ones now. >> Yeah, maybe maybe that's a better way to put it is that obviously the the Remy movies commit to organic webs, but they commit to it. So that's fine with me if you want to run with it that way. Yeah, either either way it is >> because because it's a bit of a I I'm pretty I know I've talked to Müller about it. Like it was something that he noted that is kind of interesting which is >> it's pretty convenient that his organic webs develop exactly where he's used to using web shooters instead of like somewhere else like his ass. It's really good that they come out of his wrist, you know? That's that's something that he can adjust to rapidly compared to even if they came out of his forearm, like the top of his forearm or his fingertips, which some Spider-Man isn't that how it works with uh with with some Spidey people that they shoot the webs out of their fingertips instead of out of their wrists. >> Maybe it does come up from his ass >> like they joked about. >> Well, again, remember it's uh it's something that they they talked about in um it was talked about in good old uh Silk. That's the character. Yeah. Silk shoots wet. That's what it's very it it means it's way easier for him to adjust to the organic webs that they shoot out of the exact place that he decides to use his web shooters from. >> They're so similar that his AI is like, "Yo, [laughter] these are not compatible because they're exactly the same, >> which is pretty funny. That is pretty cuz yeah, that's what happens. He goes back to his apartment. It's filled with webs. He scans his body and his arachnid hormones have surged, which has resulted in the formation of the organic web glands. And Eevee wonders if this is the consequence of a recent traumatic event, but Peter's not interested. He tries to like it's a really good thing that you have this AI here to just like plant these ideas >> into like the the audience's mind and into the plot is like maybe some recent, you know, d maybe. >> Are you suggesting she's like a shitty cheap form of exposition that keeps muttering throughout the whole film of things we could have figured out anyway? >> Alert. Senses are overloaded. >> What? [laughter] Um yeah, he tries he uses web shooters, but the organic webs blast them off. And so she says they can't be used at the same time. Uh this is not true. Obviously, there are solutions to this problem. >> Just move the web slightly one direction or the other. That's one way of doing it. Um >> it's I was wondering whether I had missed like a bunch of dialogue in the film. Um because we've just gone over what the AI tells him about, you know, oh this is happening because theme. Um the that that kind of is just it like oh it probably is some response to a recent trauma in your past. But like this is a kid who's blipped by Thanos and has seen Tony Stark die and didn't develop organic webs at that time. But now all of a sudden and after 5 years >> just to be clear he did see Zenaia kiss Ezra. So >> Oh yeah. Just that's more that's much more traumatic than May dying. what's doing >> as a consequence as a consequence of the choices that he made. >> Nah, but now it's setting off, but it's because we're doing life cycles with spiders or something. We'll get to that later. But um yeah, no, he um he basically concludes that he has no choice. It's like either he's going to have to either if if he can't he has to use the organic webs if he can't solve the arachnid hormone problem, which will be a thing that comes comes around later. So, he heads to the rooftop and uh yeah, he's overwhelmed by the sights and sounds of the city and and what what does he say, >> right? >> How do how do we how do we know that is uh that that all this is happening? >> We hear loud noises. We the birds flying startles him. He can hear everything. His senses are overloaded plainly. >> And we know this because the the computer lady is saying, "Alert, senses are overloaded. Alert senses are overloaded. Alert senses are overloaded. Alert sensors are overloaded. >> The only way to make that more redundant as a trucking notification on your system is there's too much scrambled audio. Like as in she's telling him something that even by her own definition, he probably can't even hear because his senses are >> overload. It is contributing to his overloaded senses. It's like going into a room and screaming. It's too loud in here. >> You You weren't here when the conversation was happening. Mh. Uh, what do you prefer? Web shooters or organic webs? >> Uh, prefer I'd pick shooters, but I like both. >> Okay. Wow. So, you got one, the other, and then the middle. How about that? >> I guess I'm not the middle if I'm picking one, but still. >> Then again, so was a platoon. You were kind of in the middleish as well, it seemed. >> Yeah. I just I would rather have one and not the other. >> To one, but I I kind of prefer organic. I like that it leans into the bi his biology kind of changing a bit to be more like the spider. >> The thing it's funny because one of the things I like about web shooters is that it is like almost a notable exception to all of the spider stuff. He gets a whole bunch of like spider abilities except the webs. That's like the one thing that he needs to clear. It makes it so that him placing the webs in the most convenient place, I guess, is is his choice opposed to he just lucked out because who's that [ __ ] guy in the boys? Webw weaver. That's uh that would be less convenient. Basically, anything would be less convenient than what Peter has set up, which is fine. Like, broadly, I'm not I'm not shin on it for that. It's just that uh I like the web shoes angle because he chose to make it he chose to do it as a sign of like intelligence, but it's also that's an avenue for the character technologically. the the multiple modes and then just um I do I [clears throat] do like the the way it can depreciate tech in battles weakness to like isn't it um is it EMP or something? The electrical [ __ ] that he has to fight electro with like that [ __ ] with them. >> Well yeah and electro [ __ ] up one of them and then he needs to use the remaining one in more creative ways which is kind of cool. >> And then he has to ground or magnetize or something right. >> Oh yeah. And then doesn't doesn't like lizard mess him up like in the fight in the in in the he like destroys them which means that that it's like >> I think in far from home he's out of web fluids and he has to be way more creative >> uh in the final fight. Like I that's which of course you can do with the organic webs. It's just that with organic webs it's like well it's almost less tangible in a way that people can directly track compared to oh the device that shoots the webs is broken. I can see that it's broken do it with natural but even in the Ramy trilogy he never ran out. He only had the existential crisis that blocked it. Yeah >> that's right. Yeah. Um anyway, so uh yeah, so so uh um he starts experimenting with the with the organic webs and they appear to be very powerful like more powerful than web shooters like that they knocking down. >> Talking about the Eevee thing uh as well as like this was like in my notes I was constantly writing like thank you film so much for telling me that his you know the senses are overloaded and your heightened senses are taking in too much information that like yes thank you. I feel like everyone every other movie made can like get this information across without explicitly spelling it out to me in like multiple ways. Thank you so much, Expositionbot, for telling me what's happening. I do have a brain. I am watching your stupid dumb film. Thank you. >> Well, and then um Peter receives an alert through his HUD, his super HUD. It's like in the game. It's a super sophisticated HUD. And uh Scorpion's broken into a damage control data center. And so Spider-Man off he goes, but he's struggling with the webs. Not so badly that he can't actually get there even though he gets there inefficiently. But uh he's he's he's hitting birds and stuff and it's very lucky he didn't break the bird's wings. But the birds are cool. They're fine. >> Yeah, they're good. They're cool. >> And so um yeah, Scorpion. He's he he's looking for V-Max. It's like ah right. So it's not Scorpion. This is Jean. Jean has taken over Scorpion. You do not get >> got his gear back, too. >> Yeah, he did. But it's uh but yeah. No. Spider Spider-Man swings in. The fight ensues. Spider-Man struggling and Jean taunts Spider-Man about this. So, she attempts to stab him through the neck with Scorpion Stinger. >> Yes, that is a thing that happens. >> And she would have, by the way, Peter's struggling >> like if he if he sort of so to speak gave in like when like she she would just go straight into his neck and he'd be dead >> and he'd be and he'd be he'd be coughing up blood. He'd be >> even though that is the sound he would make. >> Scorpion should just have been pushed back because he doesn't have leverage. She's standing there. So, Superman's push him forwards. >> Rationalize the fact that Scorpion is a victim in this situation. >> Yeah, he is. He is. He didn't want to do this. She made him do this. And uh >> but it is absolutely necessary that she used him for this plan though. >> That's right. Yes. And um but but it's a fair point because Yeah. Pet Peter, his arachnid hormones surge and his eyes go black and he goes a bit crazy and Scorpion gets the [ __ ] beaten out of him. He gets really hurt uh because of of this because of and and and um and and this this feels so awkward, doesn't it? He's he's so beating the [ __ ] out of Scorpion that he slams Scorpion into a passing police car and one of the officers inside is severely injured. Um, I don't know how people who watch this film can square away that Peter did that with Scorpion, a guy in a suit, and it destroyed the car and it injured the cop inside. Meanwhile, Jean piloted a tank that hit several cop cars and went like rolling and [ __ ] flying all over the place. But no, it's all good. It's all good. Nobody died. Nobody got hurt. >> Um, also, >> there are consequences for this kind of, but >> will obviously be uh he was like, it's like he's possessed. It doesn't count. But to me, when you're really angry, it reminds me, we've had this conversation before about like the nature of being, take for example, drunk, you don't, if you're a normal person, you don't because drunk start talking about [ __ ] that you don't believe in or start doing [ __ ] that's pointed towards stuff that you absolutely have no principle related to. Why would Spider-Man, when his villain's defeated, get so mad that he picks him back up, which by the way, he already knows that weird mind control shit's going on. So, you're dealing this is the 50/50 part to me. I'm like, eh, pick him back up and slam him such that you actually don't even know if he's going to survive, but into a cop car that's literally explicitly only there to either help you or to help innocent people. And he' be like, "Yeah, but he's mad." It's like, I don't I don't understand how he's mad would explain that. >> Blind rage. >> It's a blind rage. >> Well, but usually blind rage would take you from hitting someone you hate into maybe even killing them. Like, I totally buy that. >> I mean, we saw blind rage. It was when he fought Green Goblin. That was a blind rage. Um, but this one very weird to me. It's like why why did you slam in all you could have slammed into anything? You chose the police car with someone in it. It's weird. >> Yeah. Well, I think I think the film wants it to be like he he has like basically like no it's like instinct basically. It's not like there's even a person in there. Um, something like that. But I don't know what that means. If they want to crank it that direction, like what this is doing to his brain, I'd have to say then that makes the third act suffer significantly considering how they resolve this. >> Well, yeah. Well, it's almost like it's the fly almost. They're treating it like that. That's like the the spider is taking over, >> you know? It's the spider that takes over like how he forgot everything that happened, but he must have been crawling around >> the scene. I don't get why they do these things because had he picked up a defeated scorpion and slammed him into the concrete and and dewolf saw all of that that would be enough to be like Spider-Man what the [ __ ] are you doing? >> Exactly be like >> you don't have to have him crush a police >> because I think it's made even wish she's like you nearly killed a police officer you need to go. It's like uh he needs to be arrested. You mean [laughter] what do you mean? She says like you can't do this more than one time. You get one free kill on the police. Okay, Spider-Man. >> That's right. [laughter] Every superhero gets one. >> But um >> Oh, this is what I'm talking about, by the way. Um Oh, please. The mutation spiked to made him do it. Scorpion on instinct. He instinctually hit a police car. >> This is what I mean. It doesn't make sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Don't Don't defend it. It's >> There's no need to defend this one. It's a weird choice. They wanted to make it so that it shows like him crossing the line, but there's better ways to show it. >> But I don't even know if he's like in really in control of himself. The thing is like the the hormones spike and it's almost like he's he's not even himself. Is he even like in there? >> Thing basically it's like oh it's like it's it's like the spiders come out to play, you know, like but that's I don't know what that even means. >> Yeah. I just don't know. Like I I wish it it'd be more interesting if he was like still clearly in there to some degree, but he couldn't control himself instead of it being like up in the air as to whether or not he's even like >> Does this make us wonder about the spider? The arachnid within him. He's like an evil creature that wants to kill >> an evil entity. Well, no. It's because he's rejecting it and that's why it's evil. But if he synthesizes with it, then it will be all good. >> You embrace the spider. >> Okay. Right. Yeah. >> Crazy. This is the first time this has come up in his whole life. That's crazy. No, >> I know. I know. It's never been before >> as a movie wants to. >> Sorry. >> I think that the movie wants to do this is movie wanting to do the Venom stuff without having to do the Venom stuff. >> Maybe. I mean, they'll do it eventually. They have to. Venom's too popular. >> They will have to do it. >> But then again, they didn't they did >> they did a movie where Gene Gray is the villain and an X-Men character. an X-Men hero is the villain and it's going to make $2 billion. So maybe they don't need to do any Spider-Man villains. >> Yeah, this entire plot line just I don't I can't wrap my head around it. Why? It just makes no sense to me and why introduce it now. >> Yeah, it's weird. >> I think they're trying to give Peter like a way out in terms of it wasn't really you. It was the it was the spider spirit or whatever the real you. >> Well, you had a motivation to do all the evil stuff you did. It's like, oh, [laughter] okay. >> Anyway, >> the call be I mean, it's so you you can tell already where it's going. As soon as you see that scene and you know what the movie wants you to take away from that scene, then you know what the resolution's going to be. He's refusing the call because, you know, ironically from a spider, but never mind. Still the same beat in the story. Um, he doesn't want to embrace that part of himself. because you've had the scene which makes no sense and it's so obviously trying to tee up the thematagic conclusion you already know at some point later in the movie with equivalently little setup he will suddenly decide you know what no I'm fine with spider and then he can win good stuff you know it's just it's just great which um yeah brings us to uh to the first Hulk scene so well the first Bruce Banner scene anyway the next day Peter heads to Empire State University where Bruce Banner is working as professor and um he's doing a lecture uh that he's watching, but uh during the lecture a student raises her hand and says, "If Thanos was so worried about overpopulation, why didn't he use the magic glove to make more food and then a guy cosplaying as Hulk stands up and yells, "Hulk smash," which prompts cheers from the rest of the students. >> It'd be pretty awkward if you put that in a movie that could fall apart with some simple questions, huh? >> Yeah. I just I feel like how is this not infinity cones? How is this not the exact same thing? It's it's been less than 10 years and you're like making ry sarcastic jokes about how half of the [ __ ] universe died. >> Well, this movie college student >> 911 became funny quite soon after the fact. So maybe it's kind of their equivalent of that, but like the scale is is so much bigger that it's like and it's obviously like >> it's the movie trying to be cute and clever. So obviously the question is yeah, why why does he not just create more food? He then says to the to the kids in the crowd, right? Like what's your answer to that question? And that's when the other kid does the whole smash thing. So it's like it's not only is it making a cute little reference, but it's kind of then saying, yeah, that's an unanswerable question actually. that's just an integral flaw of Infinity War. Um, which it isn't cuz it doesn't take that much work to come up with an answer to that question. >> Yeah. And it might not be an airtight answer, but you can respond, you can speculate, people have, which is why it's weird instead of >> Oh, by the way, to be clear, the fact that everybody cheers is the dead end. You can say that people would make jokes about that, but the fact that literally everybody in that room is comfortable with jokes like that being made is absurd, that's obviously not true. You don't think that there would be somebody that would be getting mad like, "Can you please shut the [ __ ] up making jokes about that because of the horrible trauma that I have associated with it?" Don't defend it. It's [ __ ] It's stupid. It's dumb and it's lampshading as well. Like, just don't. It's [ __ ] >> You could have told me this was a deleted scene from She-Hulk and I would believe you. >> It does have that energy about it, >> which is never never ever said as a positive quality. >> You don't want to have the same energy as She-Hulk. We'll get more things that remind me of She-Hulk later, but we'll get there when we get there. >> But, uh, yeah. Anyway, um, that that that's nobody nobody's interested in what Bruce has to say about, um, about science. They're all just there. They want to talk about Avenger stuff. Um, but that's it. And then the lecture ends. And then, uh, Peter approaches, uh, Bruce, uh, and asks him about the inhibitor on his wrist. You might remember this was in She-Hulk. Do you remember the inhibitor? >> He's got it. Um, >> yeah, I was in the laboratory place. >> Yeah, how about that? And then and then um and and and then Peter asked a very specific question about how the inhibitor works, which uh sort of piques his curiosity, Bruce. And so they this is really important, by the way, because this is like so unbelievably important. The film seems to even recognize how important this is. Um they they start talking about this concept and Peter asks Bruce if it's possible to suppress certain parts of an individual's mutating DNA. In this case, the bad parts as he deems it. And Bruce reckons it's possible but also highly dangerous as something like a universal inhibitor could be used to suppress the abilities of any superpowered person. >> Any superpowered person. To be clear, Peter goes on to build this universal inhibitor and it works >> very easily. I might say very very easily. >> I'm sorry. Are you saying that Peter invents a universal power remover? Is that what you're saying? >> Yeah. And by the way, it it's not something that has to be explicitly like tailored to the person whose powers or DNA you want to shut down. This works on anybody. It's just universal. >> Universal. It would work. It works as effectively on Spider-Man as it works on Gan Gray as it would work on the Hulk. >> Everybody, it's not just an anti-mutant device. It is an anti- every superhero device. >> I assume that if you >> It's basically magic. >> I think if you attached it to like >> if it was a magic ring that Doctor Strange like clapped around your neck or something and it did the same thing. Yeah. It seems to me that if you attached it to like Steven Spielberg, you wouldn't be able to direct anymore. Like it just takes whatever your thing is. That's good. Michael Phelps wouldn't [laughter] be able to swim anymore. >> Bear in mind, he builds this in a ship with a box of scraps. >> Yep. >> And so, of course, that means that one of the first questions I'm going to be asking when Avengers Doomsday rolls around is, okay, why don't you just use the chip on him? >> Yeah, just use the chip, get it on Doom, and then take away his abilities. MC is fundamentally now [ __ ] >> Well, now now >> well now. Yeah, but >> 78 layers >> once more. >> Was it if we can be clear, right? The history of inhibitors if there is one. You mentioned the Hulk built his own and I think we've seen there's one for uh what was the one that was just kind of like implied then? Someone just mentioned it like um uh they they have that thing in that universe where they put it on Doctor Strange and he can't use his powers. remember um in the Illuminati. >> Yeah, that's on the the face, isn't it? >> And uh they do that with Wander in the Raft. So, you know, up to this point, we've had devices that can apparently are tailor made to like deal with certain things in certain contexts. But the reason why this blows the whole universe open is that you can 3D print mass-roduce universal blockers for all power. >> Mhm. >> That's insane. including because you might be like, "Okay, just mutants or just people with like a lower level or it's like, well, the examples we have are Spider-Man, the Hulk, and Gan Gray, all three nuked by this." >> It's basically everything. It's everything. >> That's pretty much everything. It's It's like Yeah. essentially mutation, the sort of mutation that a lot of heroes have, and then actual just the mutants themselves. >> Oh, >> so >> we missed an example actually. I don't know why Captain Marvel keeps coming up, but she's got an inhibitor. Except that that inhibitor only works because she believes that she's inhibitor inhibitor. >> It is. Um but uh but that's really funny that he does he does go on to invent this himself with a box of scraps. >> Well, and the help of his trusty AI that he built. [laughter] >> Well, and and someone else who actually figures it out for >> There's a key piece of detail. Yes. That makes it all work. Obviously chat would be able to guess who gives him that key piece of scientific detail that that cracks the whole program because it's obvious who would end up doing that. Got to think smart character. Scientific smart character. >> Bruce, you know, on this he asked Peter how he could decide what parts of nature are good or bad or if he's suppressing something which should be expressed and Peter doesn't have an answer. Uh which is really awkward because it's a it's a fair point. >> It's a fair question. It's so fair that you'd almost think that Bruce has seen the script for the movie. Like he knows exactly what this is related to cuz of course at this point he's figured out that Peter is not, >> you know, cuz he says he's Ned, but he's not one of his students. He knows that. But it's like, hm, how curious. >> Um, but yeah, Pet Peter goes back to his apartment and he uses his 3D printer to create an inhibitor while listening to a documentary about the life cycles of spiders that's narrated by Keith David. >> Keith David. >> Yeah. He says >> he says anthropod instead of arthropod though. >> Oh, does he? >> Oh, >> I thought that was weird. >> Um, and then uh but but he but this is where you get the line from the trailer. The life cycles those who make it through it amounts to something of a rebirth. Wow. Isn't that thematically potent in this movie that >> brand new day? >> Even though this movie has decided that it wants to delay moving on from the prior cast of characters for a whole movie. Um, I mean, pretty funny that, >> you know, broadly the whole film just feels like it it steps to the to the left, moves back two, and then forward maybe two and a half. >> It really doesn't feel like we went anywhere. And it's just like, okay. >> Yeah. Pretty stupid. Um, and so Peter tries out the inhibitor. He goes outside. Uh, it appears to work, but it fails pretty quickly. And a ped and a pedestrian asked Spider-Man if he's okay before saying still can't sense me. Huh? Cuz this is Jean. This is uh this is a this is a Jean scene. And and she says you're the only person I've met who I can't hop into, but I'll get in there eventually. You know, I don't get why you would work for an organization who hunts down anybody who's different. Uh to which Peter retorts, they're hunting you because you're dangerous. Um, to be fair, Jean has no way to know any context about Spider-Man. There's nothing she could ever have known about the motivations or actions of Spider-Man. There's just nothing. There's no way. >> It's not like he uh No, it's not it's not like he fought Thanos. It's not like he did that. >> Well, it's not like he's a bonafide pure as [ __ ] hero for a decade and specifically in the area she lives. It's uh >> nah. >> No. >> Why? Yeah. Yeah. Spider-Man, why would you work for and then describes the the ind institution in such a way that doesn't prompt additional questions. For example, if she said, why do you work for an institution that I don't know, kidnaps innocent people? It's just she's, you know, it's it's just weird that his history but but as we'll find out with Jean, the history of any hero is irrelevant to her. uh she doesn't give a [ __ ] um if she if she [ __ ] with a like just a bonafide hero, somebody that saved, you know, millions or indeed billions or indeed even trillions of lives personally. Anyway, >> um so uh >> the I suppose cuz like the >> Gene in this scene has come to find him. One, I guess, cuz she's somewhat curious about the fact she can't jump into him. But two, whatever her plan is, Spider-Man now technically can get in the way cuz she can't mind control him. So, she wants to seal that thread off. This is why she's here. >> She's got to find a way to make it so that he stays the [ __ ] away from it. Now, again, we're not quite talking about it, I guess, but that that is a bizarre choice to make considering the full contest context out of everything she could do, everything she could say. Yep. >> Oh, and so someone said they didn't kidnap an innocent person from her perspective. Okay, that's what she thinks. We got you got to we got to remember that because I agree with you, >> but we'll get to that. >> But um Oh, yeah. And then uh so Peter asked uh Jean about V-Max, which prompts her to reveal that she knows that Spider-Man is Peter Parker because she is in his apartment. Um, how is that even possible? We see in the opening montage that uh that Peter's got cameras and as a part like he like he is and he's got an AI assistant that is in all of his [ __ ] monitoring all of his stuff. >> She's on his [ __ ] rig camera. [laughter] We have that technology ourselves. >> She is she is in his apartment. >> That doesn't make sense because she tried to get in his mind for a little bit that she learned this. >> No, no, no. The reason The reason why she knows is because she's like she's read the letter. >> Well, she finds the letter in the apartment. >> Yeah, but she's already in the apartment. How does she know to >> I see what you mean. How did she know to go to that? Oh, well, she says like it's easy because of how she can floop around and find stuff or something. >> I think it was something like that. >> Uh, well, so what Rag said is what I've seen people saying is the answer, which I don't really I think that's very convenient that she jumped in. >> Well, no, no. I think you I think you're on point. That's the best explanation because there isn't one because when she jumps into his mind, all you ever get is that [ __ ] room with bay which is not useful to doesn't give you any. >> Yeah. No, you're right. >> I feel like you kind of So in this >> is the nature of her flimping such that she when she takes over your mind she >> she gains all information about Yeah. She knows everything. Yeah. She gains information. Is it is that >> that is true by the way because yeah because she jumps into Frank's head and then she jumps into Frank's head and immediately says like oh this guy's got issues and when she jumps into another character's head she also gets some very specific and it's also something that they kind of point to before which is like how did how how did the old lady know how to drive a tank? The implication seems to be that like she would have acquired that knowledge from someone else which is pretty funny because you got it from someone else. Why didn't you just use that guy to drive the tank? You want to go back and >> Yeah, she she gets all the information. >> I figured that was how it worked. I just didn't know if it was explicitly stated or if it's just like Yeah, she has to in order to do the things that she >> It's pretty close to explicit. It's pretty close to it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Fair. >> But um yeah, in this scene, by the way, Gene Gene is like ruthlessly tearing into Peter. >> Um you know, she she is she is tearing him to shreds and then reveals that she doesn't plan to work. >> Yes. >> Cuz um she found the letter. Um, she found the letter and then uh and then she >> coffee cup. >> Yeah. Well, I don't know. I guess yeah, that is an interesting place to look for something is a coffee cup. Like, oh, I'm just going to check to see if there's not coffee in here. >> There might be something useful inside this empty discarded coffee cup. >> And so, uh, >> cynically though, at this point, it's like, oh, cuz we got to get him back in, but he's not allowed to go and initiate it. So, we'll have the note be found and the threat be made. That's obviously going to happen. It's like, uh, that's lame. So that that means if he hadn't ditched that note, rewrote it or ripped it up, you know, and this probably wouldn't have happened. She finds it pretty quickly, too. >> Find if it was just really hard to find, like it could be because he had it on him. >> Yeah. Like he just kept it with him, then that would be a dead end, but it's all good. Um, and so, uh, and so Jean starts jumping between a whole bunch of people and she says she's she's going to pay MJ a visit, which will be very easy for her because Ned posted her address on the internet. >> This is the second movie we watched in a month. The second movie in a month where a big plot point is characters posting someone's address on the [ __ ] [laughter] internet. >> Guys, can you believe it? Ned leaves is a doctor. >> We'll add it to his list of crimes. [laughter] >> And so Ned the crime. >> And so Jean mind controls an old man and derisively says, "I'll race you there. Better start swinging. I'm fast." And then Jean makes the old man walk into the middle of the street where he gets run down by a taxi. Is it is it bad that I am extremely glad this happened because it makes the conversation so much easier with people who don't understand? >> The conversation has already begun. Obviously, what happened here? Jean mind controls some innocent old dude to walk into the street to get run down by a car. Why? Why did she do that? >> What did she gain from that? >> That's where I'm going with this. like she's already shot bullets into loads of buildings, blown places up, crash, and a lot of the conversations like never see a body though and you don't even she's doing it for reasons. She made sure everyone was out or blah. It's just like, yeah, well, that's all [ __ ] as argumentation, but you can't escape the guy getting thrown in front of a car. >> He did this on purpose. On purpose. And then people like, oh, but there's no confirmation that he's dead. So, number one, he's dead. [laughter] Number one, he he is dead. That taxi is moving fast. He floss over the top. So, number one, he's dead. Number two, at best he's severely injured. Number three, if you put someone in front of a car, >> what the [ __ ] do you think is going to happen to them? What are you trying to do? What is the intention here? >> If he does, like if he improbably survives, it is despite her best efforts to kill him. [laughter] You can't control the variables there. If we're being if we're being clear though, cuz like everyone says, why? Why? Why? Why? like well I mean going from the film she does it to show what her power is capable of to intimidate that she'll do that to MJ >> it's to make a point to make a point and her example is this innocent sanitation worker old man to uh >> yeah um I will say like if you're people who are actually trying to argue to to to use a term that they would be inclined to use it's just like a profoundly s it's just it's so you're not you're Not you're not being serious, you know, like you're being silly. You are being silly. You're you're you're uh you're a s you're silly. I'll say that. You're silly. If if you're trying to genuinely argue that this is um like argue against like, no, this isn't bad for Jean. I have seen people say, "Oh, if only there was like a school that she could go to that could teach her how to use her powers responsibly." I think there's a consequence that you didn't sens intentionally maim innocent people. >> Well, that's the thing, man. >> She [laughter] shouldn't be allowed within 500 miles of any school. There's no like she she has to be in an asylum. It's it's kind of it's funny because obviously they want to introduce the X-Men. The X-Men is going to be a big thing that Marvel eventually moves on to doing cuz it's one of the only things they have left. Before the X-Men has even begun, they are now making you think, you know what, the government probably right. Maybe we should actually just crack down on all these mutants because Jesus Christ, look what he does. >> It It is a bit awkward. It means like strike all of these guys. Yeah. >> I don't know, man. feels like it's going to be hard not to root against uh >> to root against these guys. >> If this was explicitly uh the dark dark phoenix introduction and that is what she you find out she's got like the Phoenix force that's [ __ ] with her brain and that we desperately need to bring her down before uh Xavier can get some kind of control on her. I think we would still be talking about like Yeah, but she's still really stupid even if she is evil. Like you know >> yeah the villain is doing villainous things that's in line. and it's just the villain's stupid. >> The film's opinion is she's quite a wonderful person. She just has something that happened to her in her childhood slash a little bit earlier that justifies all this. And you might be thinking to yourself like, what could possibly [snorts] explain in a moral way that you just arbitrarily kill innocent people? >> Yeah. What? There's no point to that. There's no benefit. There's no gain from it. That's just cruel. Which is something that which is something that's already should be apparent. But like Gan is incredibly cruel. She's not like, it's not a case of she's pursuing her goal with like laser focus with sort of an indifference to what anybody else might say or do and that she'll only sort of essentially combat them if they get in her way. She's going out of her way to like tear into Spider-Man and and there will be a particular example that I I'd say it's pretty much indefensible. As if this wasn't already indefensible enough, as if the tank wasn't already indefensible enough. >> Yeah. One of the worst things about >> one of the really bad things about this too is that I'm we're probably gonna get to it in just a second because this this doesn't just really really really bad for the villain and what they're trying to say about the villain. This is really really bad for Peter too. >> Uh well, yes. Why didn't he save this dude? Like what? >> He had a lot of time like what I I'm an audience member >> and I know what's going to happen. I'm a guy. >> Well, dog stay character. So you're assuming >> that's Peter Parker Spider-Man. >> You're you're assuming he has, let's say, like a wide point of view and some kind of like does he have anything that would maybe make him quick on his feet for something like that? >> Super senses or you demonstrated your media illiteracy because he's having [laughter] the fl. That's what stopped him. Even though nothing in this scene indicates that the flumes would stop him from saving this guy. It's uh it's crazy cuz I think a mere 15 minutes later, someone nearly gets flattened by something moving even faster and he actually pulls her out of the way of it. >> Yeah, man. >> Compounded interesting. >> It's compounded by the fact that he doesn't give a [ __ ] about the guy afterwards. >> Correct. >> He doesn't care. He just leaves. He doesn't He doesn't check on him. He doesn't express extreme regret. >> Sorry, man. You got no legs. Your legs don't work anymore. Oh well. Too bad. I mean, right. You remember what he goes on to say about it, right? Like what Peter says about him. >> No, I know. Yeah. You're not a murderer. [laughter] He says >> it's [ __ ] later in the movie bearing goodbye that she just murdered this dude by having him get run down by a car. >> Do you remember the uh cuz I've seen someone else make this reference in the nice guys where uh Gosling is like you you you're not a murderer, not deep down. And then Russell Crow just goes he she just said she killed three people. and he's like, "Well, not not not like completely a murderer." [laughter] It's something like that. >> That's a fun movie. I I didn't watch that again. I haven't seen that since >> it's it's reason to think that Shane Black should tell stories. >> So, um yeah. So, Jean starts rapidly flooping through dozens of pedestrians, occasionally stopping to taunt Peter. Um she's not in a rush rush. She's she keeps taunting him. And um and now Spider-Man pursues her while telling Eevee to track each of her jumps. >> Um and so Eevee runs the numbers and eventually include >> if I can inject a line here that I thought was hilarious. He says track physical anomalies >> and Eevee just does and I'm like yeah okay that's a thing you have. Sure. Yeah that's you could track physical anomalies. This is another example of like you just you're just overthinking this writers. Peter could have deduced this himself from watching it as he chases her. >> Yeah. >> And it would have been cool to him be like she doesn't jump immediately. She seems to have to get within a range. And it looks like he would be able to tell from crossing a road like how steps are and everything just by the fact there's a chain of floos. Why doesn't she just floomp to the other side of the city immediately? is clearly a range. And there are times when she runs to get closer to somebody, but instead it has to have the computer specifically run the numbers on screen and show us and then display a big thing that says that the range is 33 ft. And that is the range. It's 33 ft. I mentioned it before, but this is where he gets it. And so this is particularly funny. She flumes into a guy in a helicopter and then Spider-Man sticks her like traps the helicopter and he thinks he's one even though he's already seen multiple times that Gene can just like abandon a prospect. She can just abandon a person um and then start over again. Like you can't trap her. >> No. >> If anything has become clear that's obviously impossible. It's not like she has to get that person back to where she is so she can flink back into herself. In fact, what you see is that she can just operate independent of um of whatever the person is that she's mind controlling. It's not like she goes comeoma. It's not like she's like astral projecting in a way that would have her be like comeomaos or something. >> She's like totally in control of herself and the other person. >> This just cascades like he's he's very aware from his interactions with Scorpion and the dude on the the helic rooftop that she can just abandon a body that she's a part of. Second, the information he has is that she's going for MJ. And third, that she's in his apartment or at least leaving it. So, what option do you take at this point? It's like, well, there's no point in trying to stop her jumping, jumping, jumping, jumping. That is like the worst of the any options you have cuz she can just nuke it at any point and leave or it's going to be really hard to trap her and you're going to look like a psycho because it's Spider-Man attacking random civilians. So, like, let's let's not go that one. Plan B, or rather that should be plan Z. Plan A, I would say, is depending on how far away you are from MJ's apartment or your apartment. Um, this is the thing. They don't tell us this information, right? But let's pretend for a second he's dead in between them. Well, then you go to MJ's straight straight away cuz like that you're going to that means you guarantee that you beat um Jean's reset there, but you're also very likely to beat the current runner on that weird like the even the flooping in the helicopter. Spider-Man can beat that. >> Oh yeah. when he when he's spinning through with the webs through the city, he's way faster than a flimping. >> If he's struggling a little bit, >> but plan B though, it depends on the location. Like I said, if he's, let's say, way closer to his place, he could probably get to it such that he could see Jean cuz she's she's got limited options leaving his apartment. She's probably going to have to go down the stairs or outside a fire exit. And then he just needs to cycle around. He'll find her. She's a person. He can track her. And then as soon as he finds her, she's done. >> Yeah. the cameras in his apartment and outside of it. >> Yeah, get your stupid AI to track her. Hack into all the [ __ ] security cameras. Point being is he opts for the worst decision that doesn't even make sense for him to make. >> Good stuff. Very clever. He's smart. He's very smart. But yeah, >> he built an AI. He's very smart. Didn't you watch media literally? >> Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, Spider-Man actually makes it to MJ's apartment and begs her to come with him. And she hesitates, but eventually agrees. And they start swinging around. And Spider-Man, I think he's whispering something to himself. But he's got a much better handle on the organic webs now cuz he's swinging around rather smoothly, which is very lucky that he's managed to essentially figure it out so quickly. Even though just before in that earlier sequence, he was struggling a little bit, though he wasn't struggling enough that he couldn't web up the whole helicopter, you know, in a way that didn't kill that guy. Um, but yeah, off he goes. And then, so I I figure it's worth just we're going to just run through this scene and then we can talk about it. We just run through completely. >> I don't know if it it might be relevant or not. It's just weird either way. But like they he's he's like dark by the time they get to their arrival point. >> Is he swinging for an hour? [laughter] >> How long is he traveling here? >> The sunset. It's you know it's look all right. It's it's So yeah. So Peter >> MJ to a rooftop and MJ says, "We knew each other. That's the only explanation that's been driving me crazy for years. All those times Spider-Man saved either me or Ned." Twice as a coincidence, but over and over again. We knew each other. Tell me I'm wrong. Were we friends? Were we something more? I feel like someone scrambled my brain and you're the only person who knows why. Maybe there's a part of me that still remembers. And then MJ partially lifts Peter's mask and kisses him. And then she takes off the mask and says, "Peter." And Peter breaks down into tears and embraces MJ because he is so utterly elated that the love of his life remembers who he is and what they had together. He's he's just he's so emotional. He's so thrilled. And then speaking through MJ, who she has been controlling the whole time, Jean says, "Go ahead, Peter. Touch her. Hold her. You've been wanting to for so long. You really are a simple spider, aren't you? I see why you like her. She's smart, funny, a little dark and twisted. I mean, it is sad. There are no thoughts of you in here whatsoever. But you knew that, didn't you? >> What the >> What does she gain from being this evil? >> This is sadistic. >> Yeah. Isn't it fascinating that the the old dude she threw in front of a car made everyone go pretty nuts? This one is like, okay, are you like are you are you like Norman B? Like what the [ __ ] going on in your head? Why are you doing this? >> This is um this is horrible. Um this is uh I mean you know what this I mean what this is. You you you have you have stolen someone's autonomy and then under completely false pretenses extracted something out of uh out of out of Peter. Like this is this is terrible. This is horrendous. sexual assault, but twofold. >> Uh, twofold on both of them because you've stripped MJ of the capacity to consent and you've gotten something out of Peter under false pretenses. It's both. She did both. >> And uh, >> that's horrible. As well as the fact that she's decided that Yeah. And once I reveal the deception, I'm just going to twist the knife. Just going to completely twist it. What is What is wrong with her? It's just misunderstood. This is a character I'm You have to understand when she was younger, something bad happened and so this means it's okay. >> She she didn't realize when she saw Peter [ __ ] shattering right in front of her. Oh, this is probably unethical. What's happening here? It's probably this probably pretty bad thing to do to someone. Do you think because I'm not necessarily referencing anything in this film, but inevitably, right, because we know uh third party [ __ ] that when these two are just hanging out as friends because everything's better, that he's just going to randomly be like, "Hey, remember when you like when you like possessed my girlfriend and made me think that she loved me and kissed me with her." And then Jean's going to be like, >> and you revealed the deception and then you twisted the knife about that was really mean. That was a bit cruel. and she'll be like, "Yeah, well, you know, you know, a lot lot of us made mistakes. Lot a lot of us made mistakes, so that's okay." You know, >> it's kind of evil, really. >> No, kids. >> You pushed in front of the car. >> This isn't the end. This isn't the end of what happens either because the scene does continue. We We could talk about it all more, but she uh Yeah. Peter tells Gene that what she's doing is unforgivable, and he's right. And then Jean walks MJ towards the edge of the rooftop and she says, "Some people would kill to hold the person they love one last time." >> That line is immensely important for because I think it is supposed to be like the lynch pin of the director's opinion on Jean Gray. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Like just to go over it again, some people would kill to hold those they love again or whatever it was. But point being, this this gene here, everything she's done makes sense if you understand she's trying to reach a loved one. >> It makes [laughter] sense because she's trying to really reach a loved one that she would possess Peter's girlfriend and then make her kiss him. Do that while deceiving him and then twist the knife. >> She had to possess reveal [ __ ] Franklin the the construction worker and kill him. She had to >> she had to possess the old lady and get her in a tank and drive that through New York and smash into a whole bunch [laughter] of cop cars and nearly kill a kid, nearly kill a whole bunch of people in the room if uh drive through a bus full of innocent people. All of this only being prevented by Spider-Man's intervention, the man that she has now done this to. >> And and I think some people analyze this really badly in the sense that they're like, "Yeah, she's a bit vengeful." It's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no. She's looking for looking for her. She thinks she's alive. >> Yeah. There is no vengeance yet. She thinks that the injustice >> is um small and resolvable. >> Yep. But um but yeah, no. Peter's eyes turned black. And then Jean says, "You're running out of time, Peter. Soon enough, it won't just be your friends who don't remember Peter Parker." That's a terrible line, by the way. Ultra clunk. >> She says, "Maybe you should write a letter to yourself." And so Peter goes a little crazy and grabs MJ by the neck and orders to get out of her. And so Jean makes MJ kick herself free, which sends her plummeting to her death. And Jean smirks as she falls before releasing MJ to realize that she's about to die, >> which you need to make sure is noted. MJ realizes as she's falling. >> MJ realizes and she starts screaming as she suddenly finds herself effectively teleported into falling to her death. and and and and uh Jean decided to let that happen. >> Yes. >> So again, >> it's messed up. >> All of that. She's evil. She's evil. This is insane. >> This is a Anyone who's defending this, you just have like a a broken heart. Like I don't know. >> I don't think many people are defending G. Gray. >> Not bad. Not bad. Some people are. I guess it's more so that um how are we going to move on from that when again what happened here is particularly disgusting. Um this in particular uh is gross. It's really gross. >> Sexual harassments plus murder, attempted murder, but still with the intention of killing. Um then you know that's after a whole litany of offenses including but not limited to terrorism. Um, and and it kind of it is an implicit problem with the whole movie. If even the movie's defenders are not defending Gan Gray, but they still say that the movie's like a eight or a nine out of 10, but the movie itself tries to defend Gan Gray, which it's going to do. It thinks she's redeemable and is in some sense justified in everything that she's doing. Then, uh, I'm afraid that's that's just not really an argument, is it? You can't say this movie is good except for the fact that Jean Gray is in it. If I can add to that, um, like we alluded to it, but like the the damage that Gene has is going to spread into Frank and Peter, and that's going to damage the [ __ ] out of >> them. And of course, it means that in the future, it's going to spread into the X-Men. It's a contagion. It is a contagion that will seep into uh every story that she's a part of in the future. It's the same problem that Wonder has. It was over with Wonder Division and then it got worse in um in in Multiverse of Madness. And what's crazy is that even in the case of W, like even when she went unhinged and sadistic, it was specifically to obtain a like like it's like when she grabbed the um when she grabbed the the wizards and tortured them. That was horrible. But she was she was explicitly and directly trying to break Wong to get information out of him. In this case, Jean's got nothing. Yeah, >> there's not like that. By the way, that's horrible. I hate W. I'm just saying that even Wander's evilness kind of doesn't actually live up to to Jeans. Jeans is particularly sadistic. >> Well, and we had to untangle the whole Darkhold thing, which I want to be fair like it is a bit confusing just how much it in like it affects Wand's ability to make a choice and that she's go currently going through like she's psychotically broken, you know, and this magic [ __ ] in her head. It's complicated, but you know, when you untangle it, she's been absolutely ruined. But this is so categorically sadistic, it's it's almost like baffling that they wrote it. >> Mhm. Yeah. For a character that's going to go on to be a heroic figure in the in the MCU. >> Just it's just a compartmentalization. It's like it's like the grandma stepping out of the tank. The only reason it exists is for that that scene in the moment. A little bit of surprise and shock value. That's all that matters is whatever they need dramatically in the moment. And the character then becomes almost impossible to work with. This is her foundation. This is how she thinks. This is what she does in response to adversity. When she believes that, well, it's not that much of a spoiler. You know, when she believes the person she wants to get back is just alive but being kept somewhere, she goes around committing mass murder or at least attempting to commit mass murder and doing all this evil [ __ ] So, what happens when in a later movie she gets faced with an actual even more severe and known to be severe setback than this? Does she go and murder an orphanage? What's she going to do? >> I do like the idea that, you know, she encounters your average sort of like um like average B like a scorpion or something and he hits someone who's a friend of hers who falls over and breaks her leg. And so she's like, I'm going to find any young children in your family line and I'm going to torture them. I'm going to take their fingers. And Scorpion's like, "What? What? What? [laughter] I feel I feel like that's lines we don't cross, you know? I just feel like you go a little further then." and uh like I won't I won't do anything anymore. Maybe she'll be super effective on that front, you know. >> Mhm. >> So yeah, that's um but uh yeah, Peter does save MJ's life. Uh shields shields or they tumble to the ground and MJ is knocked unconscious. And this is kind of a logistical thing that's just worth keeping in mind. Uh MJ again, she knew she woke up like falling, not you know, she was awake and then she was unconscious and then she wakes up later. Just just >> this will be that. Keep that in mind. to be known. It'll still be a nightmare to explain that part later, but we'll get there. >> Yeah. So, anyway, um a guy gets out of a black. Oh, yeah. >> I say one thing this just annoyed me. We get another and we'll get more of these when she says like, "I see why you like her." >> Uh when MJ is possessed is like, "Yep, we got to have someone praising the qualities of a >> female, you know, character while belitting." >> Well, always the generic she's smart, she's funny. How many things at this point have she's smart, she's funny, always in that configuration. >> Um >> I was also going to say I thought you were going a different direction. Uh but similarly [clears throat] like like on the list of crimes, do you remember in Far From Home when Peter has his glasses say they can get into everyone's phones and read all their messages and he's like, "Oh, you shouldn't do that. That's bad." like uh kind of funny with his new [clears throat] tech, but also on Jean, she's so up there in terms of crimes that we're probably not going to talk about the fact that it's like it is kind of [ __ ] up that you just fiddle with people's memories and you're just like, "Oh, this is like flip through them like a [ __ ] picture book, you know, like, oh, look at you. You do this." >> It is it is an immense violation, but I think that like a lot of writers and stories are really um stupid essentially when it comes to like stuff like mind control and possession. It's one of the reasons why obsession as a recent thing feels like it's so effective as a in terms of exploring and it's like oh this is horrible to do this to someone. This is an immense violation of like their very being their soul. Um whereas a lot of things treat it like haha it's kind of inconsequential doesn't really matter. It's kind of quirky and funny cuz it's something that's shown later like even later when it's like you know it's shown like Gene like oh just having fun with the powers. It's like this is a power that you're kind of not entitled to have fun with. You're taking away people's capacity to [ __ ] exist. you're like actually stripping them of their bodily autonomy like fundamentally. Um, it's actually like the it it's like a violation that is so grievous that isn't like possible essentially in the in reality, right? >> Otherwise, >> Yeah. >> Can I say the word grape? >> You can say rape. Yeah. >> Yeah, you say rape. We love rape here. >> It's like mind grape, right? It's like >> 100% 100%. And the fact that she goes about and there was a scene with Peter where she's like, I'm going to get in there >> and I'm going to >> I'm going to do stuff with you. >> Find all your memories. >> She's very evil. She might be one of the most evil characters in the MCU, which is like wait the MCU with Satan in it. You're like Mhm. Mhm. Yes. >> Yes. >> Satan's self-aware, you know. >> Satan was fun to an extent. Sasha Vo, but you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so by the way, this is so Jean is very nearby and she's she's in an SUV and and there's a guy that's in there. How does this work? She seemingly can only control one person at a time, right? So, how did that work? She she's been controlling MJ the whole time, but she has a driver that she is definitely mind controlling. This is somebody that she is mind controlling and she got him to be mind controlled to drive to this location that she didn't know that Peter was going to take MJ to. How does that even work? How is she even here? I thought she can only control one person at a time. She can't be here with a mindcontrolled person as her driver. It's impossible. >> Maybe he's a willing accomplice. >> I like the idea that that's her own personal butler like like an Alfred or something. Just evil. >> Echoes. He echoes watching. >> No, you're right. >> Oh, yeah. But it's funny to assume he is an evil Alfred. [laughter] >> He's also just evil. He's like, "Oh, wow." >> He's not controlling the driver. Oh, so when she gives him directions, why does he repeat it verbatim? Which is what is demonstrated to be part of the way >> where the [ __ ] did he go? If uh if he's like a teammate. >> Mhm. >> Come on. >> If this was a teammate that was relevant then Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, guys. We're correct. You should just accept that we've got this one right. Okay. Sorry. Anyway, um she gets out of it. >> I'm gonna have to say that she looks so silly in her little like >> hoodie >> hood and stuff. >> Normal clothes that are trying not to be normal clothes for some reason. >> Well, well, and this is pretty funny because Yeah, she she's here in person and she says, "Yeah, cuz she's speaking through him right here." She says, "You're a mess, Spider-Man. I can be anyone I want, so I can't protect uh so you can't protect MJ even uh even from herself." And then the man hands Peter back his letter and Jude says, "It's really a nice letter. A little heavy-handed, but not bad." And so then the car drives off and Peter sees Jean's face, which means Eevee sees her face. >> One of the stupidest mistakes in the entire movie that allows the rest of the movie to happen. Like, holy [ __ ] >> How do you [ __ ] this up? You should have won before the film began. You had no reason to even let Peter know that you existed. >> This is pretty funny. When she was on the apartment, she had the uh she had the mask on. She was covering her face, but here she decides not to. She decides to reveal her uh her um her face. >> He looks deliberate, but that wouldn't make any sense. >> Yeah, >> cuz this only sabotage character. >> This is a scene straight up from like Madame Web. It's so bad. >> Oh no. Oh no. >> Her web binds them all. >> Are you suggesting the Madame Web might be better than this film? >> Maybe. I certainly enjoyed it more than this film, so that's got to count for something. >> I'm detecting something to that idea. >> My spider sense is tingling. Platoon, answer that question. >> Is Madame Wear better than Brand New Day? >> Yeah. >> Yes. Obviously, yes. >> How was that even [laughter] a question? >> Also, one of chats pointed out, there's no reason why Peter shouldn't just get Jing right now. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. 100%. He should get it right now. It's over as soon as he gets it. Neutralize it. >> Mhm. He's not faster than a sports utility vehicle. It can't be done. >> No, no, no, no. But uh and also G Jean is going to Empire State University and Sinister Music plays cuz you know what that means. >> He's going to get an education. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And then she'll be a smart villain one day, which will be terrifying. So, um, yeah, Peter takes MJ to Frank's hideout, which is located in a huge shipyard filled with booby traps, which someone like Spider-Man would be particularly good at dodging, like falling debris instead of guns or grenades that just rip him to pieces, you know? >> Yeah. Just >> it's like kind of handy. >> And he even says that he's got like claymores all over the place. They're like, "What do we what are we doing? How are you >> what?" >> Well, I mean, because Frank is surprised that Peter struggled with the traps. He's like, he's surprised that it messed with him. And then they start having their argument because Peter wants Frank to take care of MJ. And he invokes the Staten Island incident. And they argue for a bit cuz look at him bickering. Wow. Look at that. Haha. And then Frank agrees. >> You can tell those guys are like brothers and their connection is way better than Peter and Tony's. That's just facts, man. >> That's way better than uh than than um Frank's and Matt's. >> Yeah. >> More important. Yeah. >> Matt doesn't exist. Why doesn't Why doesn't Frank go and get Matt out of prison? [laughter] >> He's in prison right now. But no, why didn't you just shoot Kingpin? >> No. >> Anyway, >> you can't just shoot. You can't just shoot someone with a gun >> and solve problems. It just can't be done. >> Peter brings Frank up to speed and then MJ finds a cabinet for Yeah. >> Sorry. Did we? Unless I've just I passed into a different universe temporarily. So, we they've they've met up MJ and Peter have met up with Frank, right? >> Yes. >> Did we talk about the the contraptions? >> Oh, well, I I mentioned there's a whole bunch of movie traps that Spider-Man can uh can dodge. >> I feel like we got toast got to spend more time on that. >> Seems bizarre to set up. >> Yeah. So, the reason why I want to sp cuz I needed like as far as I'm concerned, no character that I cared about when going into this film makes it out and Punisher is absolutely one of them. even though he's been kind of pelted by uh born again and his own little short whatever. Um so he's he's set up security just in case anyone comes to get him. That's fine with me. That makes sense. Spider-Man arrives and uh he decides to just enjoyably watch as Spider-Man has to save uh MJ from being crushed by Steel because he's not gonna stop the traps or warn them of the traps even though he knows they're coming. He's just like enjoying. And even comments is like, "Huh, that looked a little like took it was a little harder for you than it should have been." Or he says something like that. Um, just just horrific that you would have the Punisher just comfortably watching a civilian nearly get squashed by his security for the fun of it. But it's it's done definitely for like comedy. It's [ __ ] insane. >> Punisher is a wacky guy. MJ almost got squashed into p into a pancake. >> I like this comic relief punisher, especially given his, you know, his backstory and his family trauma. The idea that you can sort of that he would play around joking as he almost gets uh an innocent girl killed just seems like not really something he would do. The inevitable fate of this kind of character is that eventually when they realize that it's kind of funny when a very serious character acts like this, they become like flanderized versions of themselves. And that's what Frank is in a way, but like a like um like an inverse flanderization where he becomes the opposite of, you know, what he was sort of intended to be. He was like, he used to be really dramatic and serious and, you know, all business, but now he's a goofy, silly guy. Because isn't it funny that it's Frank Castle who's being the goofy silly guy when he's really a serious person, but you only portray him as the goofy silly guy. He is no longer the serious person, >> which removes the point of the humor. >> Absolutely happening. 100% that flanderization cuz it's uh it plays so well with the audience anytime he does something funny. >> And so it's like what if he just only does something funny? And um >> show someone the like the best episodes with him in the Daredevil show. >> Yeah. >> And then show them this and be like, "Yo, yeah, same character by the way." >> Well, the big thing that kills me about Punisher, beyond the fact that he's now comic relief, is uh he's supposed to be intelligent. He's supposed to be able to like, you know, form tactics, prepare strategies, traps, get ahead of people, know what he's dealing with. >> Power level. >> Yeah. And and just know what his opponent is and how to deal with them. Um, but in this he like they've turned him into he's he's basically >> I'm trying to think >> weapon man. >> Well, yeah. He's he's I have guns man and I will run into situations firing my guns man while mooing. He just moves all the time. It's really [ __ ] annoying >> cuz it's it's not anything that makes me actually like care about him. And a lot of people like, "Yeah, but that's John Bernthol." It's like why are we saying that? Do we do this with Do we do this with anyone else? Like do we bail out a character like that show? >> Yeah. >> It's Punisher. Frank Castle is in the show. The whole point of like kind of being an actor is to not be the the actor to be something you're not kind of, you [clears throat] know, like can we go back to the basics of what what we're doing here? >> Yeah. Um, you know, and there there's going to be a bigger moment for this to compound it, but the fact that we got so little punish. By the way, I don't think we actually talked about it. Is it weird that Spider-Man puts the web on his mouth and then he just doesn't turn up again in that whole battle at the beginning? Well, yeah. No, his cars he messed up his car or something. So, >> one, the car does not look like it doesn't work anymore. But two, it's the Punisher. Frank Castle who thinks someone is killing everyone. He's like, "You'll take a car. You'll just take >> he's going to Niko some someone's wheels and he's going to go and uh there you go. That's >> And that's that's kind like the very little time we've had of him. He's tried to kill Spider-Man, which is [laughter] like a weird and then tries to kill him again because he seems to be like, am I right for you? Because you you'll you'll remember better, but he's like aware that Spider-Man is dealing with his traps. >> Uh yeah. No, he he um he says like he's surprised about the fact that he struggled so much with them. >> Yeah. I I like what the [ __ ] are they doing? just just just just annoys me because I I I really liked The Punisher in specifically season two of the Netflix show, I guess, because it's funny. It's like, is he not rude for you already? And I'm like, yeah, it's been a while since he he has the one good scene in uh Born Again season 1, right? So >> rude. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Not saying it's a great scene, just, you know, there's that >> that was that scene was just like the that's the the echo of something that came before it that just that's lingering, that's long gone. It's like the light of a star that burned out a million years ago, but you can still see the light even though the real thing isn't there anymore. >> So, um, yeah, Peter brings Frank up to speed and then MJ finds a cabinet filled with pictures of Frank's family and he angrily tells her not to touch any of his stuff. This felt really awkward. She just goes in, opens a cabinet. Oh, is this your family, Frank? [laughter] >> That's not a thing that people say. It's just because it's Frank Castle. And also, she should know who this is. It's Frank Castle, right? [clears throat] Everyone should kind of like know who he is. >> We'll get into >> he's pretty [ __ ] famous at this point. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, and also like many times I'm asking Frank Hel, shouldn't he have been arrested? Did he many times? >> That's the guy who came for Boogie. >> Oh my goodness. [laughter] Um, >> is this what we have to do now? Is this what we have to do now? Could you do you think Spider-Man >> could Spider-Man deal with Boogie's home defenses? I don't think so. >> Both the Punisher [laughter] and Boogie should be in prison is what I'm trying to say. They should both be in cells in padded cells in the latter. >> Yeah. The bullet just disappears when it [laughter] >> Well, that's Well, that's what's the the defenders of this will say about the minigun at the beginning is like, [laughter] "Oh, yeah. All those bullets that were sprayed across the New York Cityville, it's just like, yeah, they just fine. Don't worry about it. They're not in the shot anymore. [laughter] You can't even see them. It's fine. >> Um, so yeah. Anyway, so using his facial recognition system, Peter has managed to identify Jean Gray. Though much of her history has been scrubbed and now he's got Eevee, you know, if she appears again, he'll be able to find her pretty quick. And then Frank asks, >> I will lament the the casualization of hacking that is that is happening in this and other forms of media where it's like, oh, hack hack hack. Oh, I found out all of this very, very useful information. I'msia, I can do that. And he's like, "Oh, okay. I guess that's really useful that we have all that information then. That sure helps the plot to move right along, doesn't it?" >> Sure does. And so Frank asked Peter how he plans to handle Gan, but the conversation very much ends prematurely. Then really get to follow it to its logical conclusion. This will happen many times. >> That is Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Carry on. Carry on. I I I I I had a thought and I was worried about losing it and it and I and it did, but it'll come back. Oh. Um I I remember it. I uh why I think it was like I was because I was really thinking about the nature of um like if you get flooked on then everyone learns about all your brain stuff and your memories and everything. So, should Spider-Man be really really concerned that by bringing MJ here when MJ is no longer here, MJ will then be able to like the the Gan Gray will learn all about the Frank Castle stuff because he is introducing MJ to this and MJ's like a primary target. >> People is >> you're saying like putting MJ into his secret layer when she's a target for the brain flames means that that's information now that uh Gene might get >> she gets brain Yeah, once she gets flooked again, which is something if you're Spider-Man, you have to be like, what do you even do except essentially tell MJ, you have to leave town and you cannot tell me where you're going or wherever. You just have to leave. You have to go. You have to be completely gone. Like, >> but the movie, there's no way that Jean Gray could ever learn that MJ is here. The movie just think, well, even though she's tracked down Peter Parker himself, this place is safe from her, though. So it's fine. So that's >> because if we're that she knows his apartment from jumping into his head, it is not a stretch that she would know where Frank's hideout is cuz Peter's whole life right now is just Spider-Man. So that's probably like a prominent location in his head, if you know what I mean. >> Yeah, exactly. That literally I was about to say that. Yeah. How Spider-Man should think that Frank Castle could be flooked currently. He should be thinking this about all the people that he meets potentially. But it is very likely that Gan Gray knows that Frank Castle because she knows his location because if she knows about all the stuff that she got from Peter before, probably knows about Frank Castle's location. Peter should expect that Frank Castle is currently just like possessed and waiting for Peter to show up. >> There's no reason why she shouldn't know about this. >> If we're using the rules >> and if we're going mega paranoid, and this is the thing, the film could have done this, but it doesn't have the the layers for it. MJ could still be floomed right now. >> It's not impossible >> because she can just act like she's waking up and coming too, but that's just an act. >> But Spider-Man never thinks to test any of this or to dis like not take for granted everything that's told to him. He's he's not careful at all. He's just like me. And so, um, yeah. No, Pet Peter still needs to work on his inhibitor. And Frank, fortunately, has everything he needs >> because what he needs to build it, he he uses to build bombs. >> We get two lines back to back here. The one the ones that I mentioned uh earlier is like, I see why you like her. >> Yeah. And then then she says, I like him about Frank Castle. So, you get like two backto back like you should like these character moments that they say about each other. And I just I hate it. >> Dude, they feel studio mandated at this point. Those ones, >> it's just they really do feel like quotas because we got three in like five minutes of film. >> It's like a frustrating thing that a lot of stories do where characters will gas up each other and I always find it really awkward um as lines that are written down, but there's so much stuff that does this. So much stuff has characters gas each other up and it's just very weird to me. >> Do you know what? Do you know what I like uh by contrast that we used to have? It would be, you know, you have the meeting of Iron Man and Cap. Iron Man's respectful but kind of dismissive and then toys with him and then says like as he's leaving the room in shot, that's the guy my dad couldn't stop talking about. And then rip into him for being like, "Yeah, you're a soldier, but like you know, it's all from the bottle. It's nothing actual special. You're kind of an idiot. You don't know. You're not following anything." Then when he's completely away from him with Loki, he describes him as the li the the living legend, right? who kind of lives up to the legend, I think is what he says. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Point being um that it's a it's characterful. He's uh he kind of hates uh Cap for very good reason, very character focused reasons, but can't deny the fact that he's like really strong, really fast, really helpful, just good person, and he's kind of jealous of a lot of parts of him, especially the fact that he met his uh his dad. He knew him. But like in a context where he's against a Loki, he can pay him a compliment even if it's like a Harour one. So, you know, I just it's like you can make it so much more pivotal instead of I like this one. I like this one. Yes. I like you. >> Mhm. >> Oh, I like her. >> Yeah. >> And it cuts to the cardboard cutout of Zinda. [laughter] >> That's just that's just the acting. So, um MJ decides to, you know, while while they're working on the inhibitor, MJ asks Peter if she can call anybody but Peter is against the idea for pretty obvious reasons. And then MJ starts talking about the issues she's been having with her boyfriend who says that she is withholding and oh, Peter's like, "Oh, it sounds like he's a real piece of [ __ ] actually." Hah. [laughter] >> Hilarious conversation to have like >> I just superhero. [laughter] I just think it's >> I think it's super lame that she [ __ ] talks her boyfriend and expresses like no concern about how he's going to be really concerned and worried about her being gone and disappeared. >> We're setting up that there's a chance. So you're saying there's a chance there's a chance you can get >> it was on my in my mind in the alternate universe. It is my mind and its wishes right of this film where Zenaia and Ned are not a part of it at all. There's at least that element of like he sees her happy and because he's grown as a person, he is happy for her and they both go off and they have a wonderful life and they like, "Oh, look at him. She's happy and I'm happy because she's happy." And that's like the opposite of what they're doing. They're trying to set up the idea that yeah, I actually don't even like my boyfriend. He's kind of a loser and he's be like concerned about me or whatever. And I'm going to bring up like, oh, withholding. Oh, I learned that in a class or whatever. And I'm like, man, like he's not even here and he seems to be a nice guy and he said nice things about you and like [ __ ] you. >> I'm not even kidding. I'm almost certainly convinced this is designed to make the audience think like, oh [ __ ] they can get back together then because the boyfriend's not that great and they're clearly kicking it off. >> But then the wrers are like, "We're so clever though because we're going to take it somewhere else." And you're like, "No, you're just shitbags with a lot [laughter] of this stuff." Honestly, >> it just makes her seem like a bad person for doing that. Um, also >> there's an element. >> Go ahead. >> I know. Like there's an element to this scene where it's just like it's supposed to be funny, which is a pattern with this film, right? Cuz like, oh, how absurd him and his Spider-Man suit and Zena are talking about like relationship struggles. That's so absurd. That's so funny. But in real in realistically, it's just a terribly written scene. >> Um, does someone mention in chat? completely forgot like blanked it. But it's it's probably the connecting bridge in relation to that whole I like I like this one or I like you thing. They mentioned Thanos. Do you remember when he basically presents to Peter Quill that you can stop me, you can save the universe if you kill the woman you love >> and then he fires the gun, but Bubbles come out and Thanos is like, I like him. Like which is awesome as a [ __ ] scene. >> Did it. It's uh it's just like oh [ __ ] Yeah, I forgot that's what they did. Mhm. >> Well, the source of a lot of Marvel's terrible, horrible writing, what is now referred to as, you know, Marvel dialogue or Marvel writing is just a bastardization and a bad version of good Jos Weeden writing, character writing. So, >> a lot of these things are just weird versions of other things. >> That was Yeah, >> that was Infinity War >> or rather >> No, I'm I'm >> Well, I'm I'm I'm referring to like a different but similar phenomenon. not like this like it happens in a lot of ways like the the quippy kinds of humor and things of that. It's like what your example was. It's it's just like a it's a shitty version of something else. Like the source is good but in trying to replicate it and do it over and over without the >> work and the execution and the talent, god forbid, it's just yeah becomes something terrible and annoying. >> Oh yeah. I mean, Marcus Mcily and the Russos together uh seem to create at their best some really banging [ __ ] And so that's why everyone's so excited for Doomsday. >> I mean, yeah, at their worst. Well, >> I can't wait to see my favorite character, Jean Gray, in Doomsday. Can't wait. >> It has been interesting to see the Russo brothers reputation deteriorate when a lot of these people still think that Endgame is a good movie. It's like, so what are we referring to then? were referring to those Netflix movies they made that nobody watched. >> Do you think all the Spider-Man fans who hate your guts right now are going to use that as a quote as well? He doesn't even think Endgame is good either. >> Well, >> I don't think Endgame [laughter] is good. I think it's terrible. I made a video about Walter White like you got me. [laughter] >> Look, I think that movie is awful. I think it ruined everything. I think that is you are >> even though >> I think that they'll just say >> they will try and use it as a way to to discredit you from your Spider-Man slander. >> Endgame is terrible. It is >> everything that can't even be remotely controversial with our chat though. I don't think I don't know if anyone >> with our chat. >> I think without >> end game. Yeah, endame. >> Not many people say >> they like endame at this point. >> I think I think people vaguely think that they like it, but again, I don't see how you can reconcile hating the Russo brothers if you think that Endgame was like brilliant. Um, particularly especially when, you know, it's like it's not uncommon for people to say that they think the Winter Soldier is like one of the best MCU movies. Like they made that and it wasn't that long ago, 10 years ago. It's not that long ago. Um, it's weird cuz everybody hates the Rosos now. Um, which is just, yeah, I mean, obviously I think they [ __ ] up big time with Endgame and I think that these new movies are going to suck, but like, you know, I have my own standards for why I feel that way. They're not necessarily the same as a lot of these characters. Um, as far as I'm concerned, all you need to do to win over people is just make the color grading a little bit less a little bit more dynamic. >> Yeah. Comic book here and there. Yeah, >> Doomsday has done that. The color grading is a little more dynamic in a lot of the scenes and it feels like it's definitely a response to film Twitter, >> but it didn't work. >> Looks like [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> No, it does. It does. I agree. I don't think the color grading matters that much with your if your shot composition or everything like that is just terrible. Who cares? >> Kind of your opening, right? Like Brand New Day specifically feels like a film that said, "We're hearing you. We're listening. Twitter." And then they were like, "Listen, we just got to put a couple things in there and then they'll shut up." Okay. They just put a couple. Yeah, you got >> Jesus. Saying that before we even get to the Hulk stuff, man. >> Yeah. Well, that's pretty close. So, um >> that's true. >> Color grading have a parody cuz that's what this like color grading. >> It would be like overly garish. Contrast would be >> Yeah, it would be like obnoxiously, you know, high contrast if someone was par >> and very orange. The thing I'm noticing. >> Uh yes, that' be that would be your example. remember that? That was crazy. That film was like [ __ ] rainbow vomit. [laughter] Like, what the hell? >> Sure was. So, um, yeah, that conversation continues cuz MJ asks Peter about his personal life and he says he doesn't have any relationships, but there was somebody who he had to let go to protect her and that it was and still is hard for him to deal with. And then MJ decides that she's going to help Peter work on the inhibitor and then he puts his way. If I could say this that line, I had to let her go to keep her safe. Um, that's like, no, you didn't. You didn't let her go. You like stalked them forever and then now you're here. [laughter] And the only reason that she got involved in any of this is because you wouldn't just like leave alone and not make those connections. >> She'd be fine. >> Yeah, that's the thing. Like you left the anchor that leads everything to, you know, that that leads everything back to her. It's like, you say that, you say that you had to let her go to keep her safe, but I watched the previous scenes of this film. You did not do those things. >> Yep. >> So, yeah, MJ MJ is going to help him with the inhibitor cuz it keeps overheating. [laughter] >> Oh, pardon me. God damn [clears throat] it. >> Oh, no. >> Then, um MJ rapidly identifies the problem. >> The device generates a micromagnetic field which uh dissipates into the fabric of his suit, but not his goggles. So accounting for this makes the inhibitor work properly. >> I hate this. >> MJ she makes >> MJ is insanely smart. >> She fixes the universal inhibitor guys. >> Like I don't I you she's she her her trait should not be that she is smarter than Peter. >> Oh to me >> maybe thinks outside of the box sometimes or something like that, but I'm like no not this is like Peter's wheelhouse. If anything, you Peter made this insane advanced AI and all this technology. He 3D printed this [ __ ] himself. How is he missing this stuff, but MJ's picking up on it? >> And it already works on everybody else as well. It's only him. This universal thing. The only person it doesn't affect properly yet is him. He's that good. He's already broken the entire universe until she comes along and say, "Oh yeah, by the way, your goggles." And so it's, "Oh, go. Problem solved." Now it truly is universal. >> Everyone's referencing it. By the way, >> MJ, that is genius. >> Everyone's referencing what this is. It's very obvious what this is and we used to be able to recognize these things, but for some reason I was having trouble with this movie, >> I'd say. >> But you are you are you saying that there was a compressor that was bypassed? >> It feels as though a compressor was indeed bypassed. And uh >> the thing about it is this conversation people have, they're like, "Well, to be fair, she was uh she was learning, she was studying this, that it's like, well, to be fair, Ray is Ry is a scavenger. Ray is familiar with like, you know, the circuit boards >> because we all know what actually that a lot of Spider-Man media lately has been very insecure about um like Mary Jane obviously this is you know this Michelle Jones but MJ like a lot the Spider-Man PlayStation 4 and all that was pretty insecure about what they needed to do with MJ to the point that they made playable missions that nobody likes. Um it's it feels like there's this thing of MJ can't be like what she was for instance in like the Remy movies where the things that she's pursuing are actually like kind of just totally unrelated to the kinds of things that someone like Peter Parker would want to pursue as a person. um for the last 10 years, 15 years. It feels like they've been very uh you know, I'm not so sure with Gwen Stacy because they made her like more it I don't know though in the comics is she like very scienceoriented cuz she was in the TASM movies. She was like at OC Corp, right? And she was she was into all of that stuff as well. It's like you actually have them sort of treading on each other's heels by doing this rather than having them necessarily lean into their respective uh >> interest. They help each other cuz they're different. you know, she sees things that he might not see because they're just wired a little bit differently, but they kind of complement each other in that way. And >> you know, >> I just I hate this scene. I think it it is in this scene where it's shown like she takes a single look at the screen or whichever the scene there is like Yeah. Yeah. She takes a look at a screen and she's like, "Oh, right away understands everything that is with this genetic wiring." And >> wait, you >> you think it >> you think it should take her like 10 seconds to figure it out? Like she's some idiot. Look, and the thing is this is like another president of not just like MJ being terribly written, but also like MCU keep keeps treating tech like magic because like I think I'm pretty decent at coding. But you show me a code or anything on screen that is made by another person, it will be just as much of Chinese to me as it would be to someone who has never coded a single line in their life because that's the files for Halo Campaign Evolve. Let me open up the uh local stuff here and I'll just paste those to you. >> And it's just you can't understand stuff like that just by looking at the screen. You have to even if you are knowledgeable and it is your field of expertise, you actually have to like put in a lot of effort to actually understand [ __ ] like that and especially to to to like the intricacies that it is with the Peter's case. So, it's it's so annoying to me. >> What's funny? When the context was, "Oh, well, I thought about doing this before I actually did a different major." It's like, "So, this isn't even really like you didn't even study this," which alone wouldn't make you an expert in anything. >> But, I mean, it's more so just story things. It's like you probably should try to avoid having characters essentially like have the same like narrative function in terms of advancing the plot. Kind of boring. >> They also just stories have been doing this forever. What you have happen instead is that they're both just talking about [ __ ] and she starts talking about different subjects or different areas of whatever she's doing in school or whatever and then he goes, "Oh, wait a minute." Then he starts thinking about something but different things. He goes, "Oh, that's what it is." You know, like some distant connection. It's how we always solve these problems. If you want like a revelation, you don't have her go over study it, be like, "I know what the answer is. It's going to be this." It's like, dude. >> Yeah. I mean, if it was a scene of like MJ sitting down, can you explain how this works so we can like work together? Maybe like point out things that we can rule stuff out and he's like, okay, this is how it works and stuff like that or whatever. And she's like, maybe it's your goggles, maybe. Like something like that. You could play it off. >> I think she specifically says, "What about your goggles?" Like she already knows what the answer is. Yeah, that's definitely I would just I would keep her like like in the realm of I wouldn't even necessarily put her in a [ __ ] science like pos. >> You you this is solve the problem with writing. Have it get onto a topic through talking about school or life or whatever that makes Peter just go, "Oh, [ __ ] Of course." You know, like like we do in a house or whatever all the time. Someone says something like, "Hey, I hit an apple. Do you have lupus? >> A [ __ ] minigun. And then he's like, "That's it. Apple and a minigun. I got it." >> Mhm. >> Anyway, >> I just It's so funny to me like everything like it's Mark Ruffalo Ruffalo's Hulk and Peter Parker, these two geniuses talking about like genetic wiring and stuff like that and anomalies and mutations. And she just takes a single [ __ ] look at that screen and she's like, "I know what we were talking about." >> Yeah. >> But yeah, no, it works. He puts it on and it works. It's it sorts out his problem. And then uh and then MJ decides to look at the script so that she can talk about theme. >> Yeah. >> Um cuz she's concerned about the inhibitor. Says it's the kind of thing one would put on a monster and that Peter isn't a monster. He's just a guy who's changing. It's like, hm, that's exactly what Bruce said. >> It's also just insanely bizarre. just picture yourself being like that that you got some kind of like what a mutation that makes things weird things happen. You're trying to sort of suppress it. He's like, "Yeah." It's like that's what monsters do, buddy. I don't think you're a monster. >> You're perfect the way you are. >> You have no idea what I'm suppressing. Everyone in the world who's a theoretically good person has all kinds of medications to suppress horrible things about like why are we why are you pretending like what >> you said this to Hulk? Hey, you're just a guy who's changing. Okay. Did you say this? This is someone going through chemotherapy. [laughter] >> This we don't come across it all the time, but this is just a classic example of like MJ doesn't get to be a character in this movie. She's the [ __ ] sock puppet for the theme and the writers. >> Yep. >> Well, if there is actually, >> it also made me wonder about like a potential alternate movie where Peter is tempted by the power that the surge of spider hormones give him. And you know, he's like, "Oh, you like, do I give in? Do I do I actually want to suppress this? You know, I've got a taste of it and it gives me the power to fight the villain and and I might need to do it, but you know, the risk and what does it mean?" Da da da. >> And he dances a silly dance. >> Yeah. >> Well, defin we have to have that. Absolutely. [laughter] >> But that's never even like a thing. It's like, "Yep, the spider thing is just bad and I need to stop it." But obviously in the end it's like, "No, actually it's really good and it makes you great and you coexist because you just do now." And there's never a there's never like a struggle for Peter. And he and like he never has to make a decision. He's never torn between like option A and option B and the riskreward of it. Oh well, never mind. >> Oh well. >> So uh the following morning, Frank wakes up Peter who's holding the letter in his hand and he places on the desk before explaining to Frank that he's created the universal inhibitor which will stop Jean. He's created it. He's created the this world changing technology that will never come up again. >> Do you think if he put it on Frank he wouldn't be able to shoot guns anymore? >> He would stop telling he'd stop telling jokes. >> The weakest part of your Yeah. the bad parts of your thing. >> He wouldn't be able to say that anymore. >> They do though in this scene they they do need to actually have like a real conversation about just like sniping Jean Gray in the face. starts. It starts, but then um it uh it basically ends pretty quickly. Um cuz Frank and it's like they don't even really talk about it. Um cuz then Frank decides to ask Peter about MJ. >> They talk about talking about it, but they don't. >> Yeah. But then we move on to the MJ thing. And then uh [ __ ] Peter Peter says uh that he's like Frank and he keeps to himself. And Frank says, "What do you know about me? You think this is a choice, a lifestyle? This is a sentence. If the people I loved were still breathing, you think I'd be hiding behind a mask like a coward? And before the conversation could be properly concluded, Eevee told him, "Hey, Jean's on the Jean's there. She's she's going to damage control headquarters." So the conversation >> these guys to shoot each other on the camera. >> No, but it's okay. They ride on the ground a little bit. >> Yeah, they're fine. >> They ride on the ground or like >> Oh, yeah. >> But yeah, that's it. And um and so uh yeah, Peter goes off, but then MJ tells Frank that he should go and help Spider-Man and he will. >> Thank God for MJ. >> Mhm. I know. It's >> like it is it is a little bit funny that right after they they talk about talk talking about the conversation where it's like, "Hey, Spidey, I'm just going to have to just kill her. I'm just going to have to shoot her with a bullet and make all this like solve all the problems." And Spider-Man's like, "No, no, no." And MJ says, "She's she's getting people to shoot each other on the camera right here. She's actively doing this right now, actually." It's almost, it's kind of actually a little bit funny in a way, but the the film doesn't quite actually recognize it. But she's killing people currently right now. This this moment, this is a live feed of her killing people. >> Um, oh, by the way, I mean, surely there is a complication here. So cuz cuz you're going to find out she is mindontrolling somebody to get into this building. But she like she can only control one person at a time at this point in the story, right? Or am I wrong? >> No, you're right. That's what it wants us to Yeah, that's what it wants to driver assigned. How is she in a position to mind control these guards into shooting each other while also having the person that she's mind controlled brought here to uh to [ __ ] with what's to [ __ ] with uh the department of damage control? Wouldn't he just run away? >> Um she's going to >> she has to release control of it's Bruce. She is mind control Bruce. She has to release control of Bruce in order to mind control the guys into shooting each other. >> And the moment he wakes up, he's like, "How did I get here? Yeah. >> Whoa. >> So, what does that look like? And >> because she can't repossess him until she gets within one of her one of her 33 she's walking. But then in that case, you figure that these guards would be less concerned about Jyn and more concerned about the [ __ ] giant green guy that's coming towards them. How does she even move him around? Like if he's if he's uh cuz he's Professor Hulk. >> Sorry. Okay. So, so to so to be clear, Gan has gone and mind controlled Bruce and made him into Professor Hulk so that she can go to the damage control headquarters and break into a big vault that has Mezer and all of his guys in there. How is she managing him while also taking control of other people and making them shoot each other? >> Wait, why is she going anywhere? >> Well, yeah. Why is she even here? >> I don't know. Oh, like when I was watching here, >> well, she's had the wacky idea of confronting the head of the DoDC for some reason. I guess we'll find out. >> Yes. >> She just should never ever be anywhere. She can mind control people at apparently unlimited distance as long as she gets as long as she's got you, then she's got you. She can let you go whenever. But >> how how did how did she get uh could she could she have gotten Professor Hulk up the elevator or would he be too heavy for it? >> If we're being generous, She didn't take off the inhibitor until >> Yeah. >> Well, that's pretty dangerous. That's incredibly dangerous. It means that she would have gotten onto the level where the hand and we know the hand were there. >> So, as soon as the elevator opens, she's got the hand to deal with and Bruce is just Bruce and not Professor Hulk and they can just kill her straight away and she's not in a position to manage all like when they go up the whole floor is destroyed. I think you can kind of get my point, which is you could probably contrive some explanation for how she narrowly managed to achieve all of this despite the limitations of her power, but like we don't see any of it. And it it's like on its face almost slightly like bizarre. It's like >> actually hard difficulty. >> Yeah. Like do do you want to do you want to just like accomplish your goals easily and secretly or do you want to do like a challenge run on legendary mode and collect all skulls and all >> you can almost imagine the way that this would be presented in the in the circumstance where it works is that she's constantly flooping between people in a way that would almost be incomprehensible to film. It would be like so difficult. She would have to be flooping with absolute pinpoint precision. >> Umable within the distance without Bruce at some point running away. >> Yeah. >> Cuz once she un Yeah. Once she floops someone else and she's not within 33 feet of Bruce, he's >> just unfloopable. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And if she if he goes up the elevator, then she has to find a way to get to him. And I don't know if >> she has to like physically see somebody. >> I don't think she can do it through cameras. She has to physically be within 33 ft. >> And as far as I know, she has to look at someone. >> Well, that's all that we ever see is that she's looking. But um I don't I don't know. The problem is I don't know. I mean, by the way, this might be a time to point out I consider this premise to be like kind of inherently bizarre. Kind of in the same way that the Marvel's premise was bizarre. The pitch is, oh, their powers are entangled, so when they use their powers at the same time, they swap the positions that they're in. That's a really weird clunky premise for a movie compared to >> follow from the establishment of their powers. Like, I was bitten by a radioactive spider. I have spider powers. It's like, okay, I see the through line. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And in this case, it's like, so the villain is somebody who has the very specific ability to mentally floop between people and like mind control them very specifically, like one person at a time, and she floops between them. It's like that's clunky almost on its face compared to kind of like straightforward easily comprehensible premises or things that are more complicated but still it's just it's just weird. >> You can make it more graceful like she like when she is controlling someone else she's in like a coma cuz her mind is elsewhere doing something else. Just little things like that that you could tweak to make it a lot more reasonable or she has to touch you or something along those lines. But it is it is awkward the way that they have it portrayed. >> Yep. >> I mean, the fact that we're calling it flimping and it just seems like a really just like what it should be called. It's a silly word for a silly odd set of powers. >> Yep. So, um yeah. So, so uh there the Mezzer and his employees are hiding in the vault. Somebody's trying to break into it. Like I said, it's Professor Hulk. Um and Gene announces herself to Meter and says, "You know what I want." Um, and then Spider-Man gets there and uh he finds Gene standing in front of the vault and Gene threatens to kill MJ because she's evil before throwing Bruce's inhibitor device at Peter. And somehow Professor Hulk manages to silently sneak up on Spider-Man and throw a desk at him. Bear in mind, his inhibitor is working, which means his Spidey sense is functioning normally, and he gets blindsided by Professor Hulk throwing a desk at him. Sometimes things can be so big, they're like difficult to >> you don't even notice them. Yeah. >> You know. Yeah. They're so big. Yeah. >> And so, um, naturally, Spider-Man pleads desperately with Gene not to mess with a force as powerful as Hulk, but she doesn't care and she's more interested in taunting Peter and Bruce for their shared desire to suppress the monsters inside of them, seemingly forgetting that Bruce personally put his life on the line to bring back trillions of people from death. like she's she has been incredibly cruel to Hulk, who is a hero, categorically a hero, >> which makes a lot of sense if you just assume uncomplicatedly that she is an evil evil psychopathic villain, which is how she presents herself. But then it has knock-on consequences when Spider-Man continues to make appeals to her as though she's not one of those things. Why does he even bother at this point? Why does he say, "Oh, no, you can't possibly do that to Hulk." when he's already seen her walk random innocent strangers in front of cars and get them killed. What what's the point of the spiel? Why is he so dumb? >> Why isn't he treating her like Green Goblin essentially? >> And I mean surely news of what happened. It was Johannesburg, right? Or was it in the >> Johannesburg? Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. When like Hulk was going like insane catastrophic >> it happened. Well, that he was in more control there, but like that's more of an example of Yeah. This is what happens when the Hulk is in an environment like this. It's incredibly devastating. >> And you don't have Iron Man in his, you know, in his big armor to stop him. But like actually what's going to h what is going to he's just going to get like eventually bored and stop maybe eventually. How many thousands will will die in the meantime? She's evil. >> Yeah. Well, yeah, cuz obviously the point that's being made here is that she doesn't give a [ __ ] about the potential of unleashing the Hulk in the middle of New York, which um of course is what will happen inevitably. Um, but yeah, they they have a bit of a fight. Um, because yeah, she's mindontrolling the hero who personally single-handedly brought back trillions of lives from the death from the dead. Probably like almost certainly it would have to. I mean, the odds are either Gene got snapped or her her sister that you will find out about got snapped. She knows somebody who did and this is the man who brought them back and she doesn't give a [ __ ] She's fine with ruining his life, traumatizing the [ __ ] out of him, potentially unleashing the Hulk potentially. Uh, to be fair, she thought she could control him. That's not a good answer. Oh, yeah. No, you can handle Hulk. Yeah, what you're doing has no possibility of potentially going catastrophically wrong. >> Also, she has no intention of controlling him in perpetuity. That her plan isn't to keep him under control forever. She's going to leave him. And she's already demonstrated that she doesn't give a [ __ ] about the consequences once she releases control. Also, sorry. Why is she why is she taunting Bruce's efforts to essentially control like the Hulk as an entity? Why is that something that she feels like, "Yeah, let me make this point while I'm mind controlling a hero who saved trillions of lives into doing my bidding personally. There's no salvaging it. Don't try. Do not try to salvage Jyn. It's over. It was over from the tank." >> From the Yeah, from the first scene. Yeah. >> And it's also worth noting that there's no way that she should even have involved the Hulk in this. There's no reason. She could supplant people's consciousnesses essentially at >> well yes cuz now you see exactly what's happening. She is trying to get to Meza specifically. He has information that she needs directly this which now might be cuz we we were holding off on it. Now might be the time to actually talk about essentially what it is that she's trying to do and how horribly she's gone about doing it. >> I thought you were wait a little bit longer. >> She wants to get >> maybe a little bit longer. Okay. It's close it's close to the reveal itself >> when she gets captured >> um anyway >> I was just gonna say that like uh her her frustration with controlling him has nothing to do with a sense of like oh no now he might like go crazy and hit she's like h I can't control him damn like like I can't use him to my specific needs oh well >> she's a to find someone else to infiltrate their mind and bend them to my will >> yeah there's an option >> well yes luckily because Um, yeah, >> it's it's just worth reminding if she wants to get control of Mezer. And remember, if she takes over his mind, she learns all the stuff that he knows. >> She could have done this whenever she wants. It's a freebie. There's no challenge to this. It It is impossible to fail this task with her powers. The entire plot of this film happens. So obvious that that would mean >> the the writer would be insane >> to have her confront him and ask him for the information like, "Hey, or I'll shoot you. you better tell me what I want to know. I was like, um, >> just press the win button, idiot. >> Just press the win button. >> Press the win now button. >> Uh, during the fight, um, Jean realizes that Peter has created a universal inhibitor basically, and she's about to destroy it with Professor Hulk. But Frank arrives and he's screaming. He's going while shooting at uh, Professor Hulk. >> He keeps doing it as well. It's not even just one momentary bit of cringe. It's like every s like you cut to his face and he's just going, >> "Well, they're playing into it now for sure." Like that. I've I've even seen people celebrating that. It's like he moves. That's his thing. He's a mooer. And it's just like, okay. [laughter] >> But anyway, um >> Frank thinks that it's wise to come up here and shoot the Hulk with a machine gun. >> That's okay. Right. Well, he wouldn't know what the Hulk is, would he? He would never have heard of the Hulk. He wouldn't know anything about the Hulk. The Hulk isn't >> I mean the Hulk wasn't introduced in this film as being famous for his Hulkness. >> But the thing is they get lucky because uh because uh Hulk grabs like some sort of explosion explosive electric device and when Frank shoots it, it like sends Hulk flying and it knocks Jean out of Bruce and she can't get back in. So hey, good thing you >> like if that's how it works. Okay. Like I guess sure. >> Also, can someone smart explain to me the Hulk mechanics because it changes with every single movie and I'm like confused cuz wasn't he like a cutie pie in Ragnarok? >> I Ragnarok? No, you're thinking of um uh Infinity War and Endgame, right? Cuz Ragnarok Savage Hulk on the planet where he got to be a >> No, he was chilling on with like a like a Hawaii shirt or something. Yeah, I get I get what Nuts is saying. It's like what exactly? Like the problem is that it becomes >> that I'm sorry. I do not agree. The [ __ ] in Endgame, we really not going to say that's what the >> Well, so I I I but the point is I think I get what Nuts is kind of getting at cuz obviously there's Professor Hulk as like >> an Professor Hulk is just Bruce >> whereas like Hulk Hulk is like his own persona. He's his own. If you go all the way back to Ragnarok, it's the Hulk has completely closed off Bruce, but then by the end of that, it's like the this complicated question mark. He gets beaten up by Thanos, which sends Hulk into like a coma or something or feared coma. I don't know. Then there's a deleted scene that never happened, but we get told about it where they integrate together and burst out of the Hulkbuster as Professor Hulk, which is supposed to be >> Yeah. They tell us, hang on, this is going to take a while. Then they tell us that that means that the two of them have now bound like they are they've reached an equilibrium when the truth is Hulk is dead and Bruce Banner is now really big. That's what you get >> which um is so you get that to end game. He does the snap. He's really sad and then >> when's the next is the next She-Hulk? I >> think it might be. >> Uh no, I think it's Shongi cuz he's >> Oh, the after credits Shani. Yes. Does he have the inhibitor on him at that point? >> He does. That's the first time that we get introduced to it as like a plot device, I believe. >> So then he takes it back off for She-Hulk. >> Well, no, he's got it on, but then when he crashes the car, it breaks and then he floops into Professor Hulk. >> Get it back again or this appearance >> so that he can have this. But but the thing is is that what we see is that the inhibitor stops him from turning into Professor Hulk, not Hulk. Hulk >> cuz he's >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um like with what Jean does to him plus the explosion I guess it it gets Savage Hulk is the one that bursts out. >> Yeah. >> Which a lot of people see as a huge plus because we're done with Professor Hulk. But it's like I I don't even know what the [ __ ] going on with him. like >> but um what I was specifically referring to was so at the end of I think Age of Ultron he gets on the [ __ ] ship or whatever ships himself to into Ragnarok and that's where he's basically completely cut off Bruce and it's just Hulk who's uh used this like >> uh a machine of sorts to like in the ring to fight off like >> Thor gladiator, right? And then he's done. He lives when he's not fighting in the pits. He goes backstage and he's living kind of a nice happy life and he's not actually he doesn't immediately butcher everything around him. He's kind of chilling in his luxury quarters. >> Well, because his job is a butcher though. Like that's why. >> But I mean, he he's just chilling the entire film when he's not in the ring. And he seems quite >> No, I get what you're saying. He's kind of just vibing. He's uh he he he's not angry all the time. He can just sort of hang out. >> I mean, I'm not trying to go to bat for this film, but like that's complicated because he gets to be a champion that beats the [ __ ] out of people constantly. Like that's why he's chill in those scenes cuz he gets to be savage. >> I know. I I just feel very uncom not uncomfortable but kind of I think the transition is very awkward between that Hulk and this Hulk is just like this film completely >> treats it as like an unhinged monster whereas we've seen such different variations >> of that already in MCU and just like >> they have I don't believe it. I don't buy it. They have the excuse that he's been trapped in uh in there for like eight years or something like Savage Hulk. >> And so he's big mad. He's mad about that having happened, which he should be mad. He should be mad. Bruce uh Bruce basically killed him. >> Um and now he's back, >> which by the way, this is all on Jeene. >> I'm not against them bringing back out the Hulk in theory anyway. That's super [ __ ] like we're talking Avengers 2012 Hulk is supposed to be what we're kind of seeing at this point. Uh, come out cuz I I think all the roads that make Hulk a calm dis like like intelligent like what what the [ __ ] are we doing? But the the problem for me isn't that we have Savage Hulk back. It's just how he's treated in this film and how Bruce is treated in this film. >> Mhm. Agreed. Um, but yeah, I mean that's uh well the thing is that we jumped ahead a bit because um what happens at this point is that Frank says he's going to go take down Gan while Spider-Man places the inhibitor on Bruce and Spider-Man tells Frank not to kill her or get within 33 ft of her rather than saying, "Well, you can't do anything to Gene besides kill her cuz she'll just mind control you. So maybe go home, my man. Get out of here." >> What was And >> what what would he have more chance of surviving? um getting a lucky hit on Hulk and getting the inhibitor on him or going within any kind of proximity to Gan Gray. The movie's told us more than once, oh, the only person whose mind she can't get in is Spider-Man's. So, if anyone's going to be approaching her in this scene, should probably be him, >> not sending a guy that they know is vulnerable to her to her powers. >> When Frank instantly gets [ __ ] mind controlled, he gets flirted in. >> Who could have foreseen this? Their planning is so [ __ ] weird because they just trying to split up the fight, identify what needs to be done. It's like and they they both they get on the right path. Gan is the reason any of this is happening. It's like, right, and I'm afraid of the Hulk, so I'll go get her. You get Hulk. And he's like, "No, no, no, no, no. Spider-Man really quickly go get Gan. It'll be really quick. Just boom, boom, boom." >> Then you can go and deal with Hulk. >> She's She's just a normal human. You can just outspeed her. She doesn't have a chance. >> Tie her off. >> Hit her with the web. >> Boom. Done. But instead he's like, "Okay, sure, Frank. Just don't get within 33 feet." And then of course he inevitably does. >> He says this like weirdly at the end almost like, "Oh, oh, and don't get within 33 ft of her." Like at the very end as Frank's already like bit of information. He gives no context for it. >> What does Peter think he'll do? You have to defeat and neutralize Gan Gray without killing her and without getting in 33 ft of it. >> Yeah. What are you going to do? >> What is he going to do? You can't rock her head and hook knocks out. Like, what the [ __ ] >> There's literally nothing he can do. >> And then he gets mind controlled immediately. >> It's all corners. The whole [ __ ] building. It's an office building. Just corners everywhere. What's he going to do? >> Mhm. >> And then she turns up around a corner. Like, [laughter] damn it. >> And so, yeah. And then um and this is pretty tragic. So, Bruce is sort of coming back and he he's asking Spider-Man if he heard anybody and he's really upset about what's going on. He doesn't know what's going on. He's scared. And uh and then Spider-Man tells him to put on the inhibitor, but uh Bruce says that Gene broke something and now the other guy's coming out and he's desperately beg Spider-Man to get out of the building. And it's all just very like, dude, Gene did this to this man. >> Sad. Um unfortunately with their rules, I guess he he needs to redo his uh his in his his Infinity War endame therapy to reintegrate. >> Yes. Um, but maybe you won't have a chance to do that because yeah, >> it might not be repeatable. >> Well, this is the thing. It just it just depends on who the [ __ ] has control over the Hulk for this chapter of humiliation and what they do with him next. >> I'm dick. >> But yeah, no, he turns into Savage Hulk and then Jean, who's controlling Frank, says, "Oh, good luck with that, Peter." It's like, "Dude, you did this. You released the Hulk in New York." And you're just like, "Oh, whatever." Yeah, good luck. She's evil. How do people I don't know. Whatever. Anyway, so yeah, they they have a big fight, which of course is highly destructive. Um, and meanwhile, Frank starts putting those explosives on the vault door, and inside Meza gets a tranquilizer gun, and then we see that there's a two-minute countdown. She's got 2 minutes to deal with Hulk. And um, yeah, it it gets pretty crazy how destructive it gets. Like, basically during the fight, they're fighting on the outside wall of the skyscraper. And um Spider-Man attaches Hulk like to the wall with the webbing so that he can try and place the inhibitor on him. But uh Hulk's skin is too thick, which like Yeah. Why would this work? >> Why did he even work? >> It's like how do you get a blood test from Superman? >> Yeah. And then um and then Hulk uh like he tears off a whole bunch of the wall off the building and it gets wrapped there's a lot. And it gets wrapped around him by the webs. There is a ton of it. Um, and then Hulk beats up Spider-Man, but then Peter says that he's Peter, and this gets through to Bruce. >> Not sure how. >> Yeah. How does that >> It just does. >> Yeah. >> And it's really unfortunate because we've had a character get inside somebody's head and say, "Yeah, there's no memories of you here at all. Nothing." So you can't play on the whole maybe there's some subliminal trace memory of what he used to be that the spell left alone. You can't do that because you've told us how it works and that is not how it works except that here it does and it's going to work that way later as well. So it's kind of just arbitrary >> and as people pointed out >> you're kind of poo pooing on Black Widow [clears throat] here having this special connection with him. you know, has has has Peter ever even spoken because they don't really share scenes. Like he was there in Endgame, but yeah. >> Oh, well, he would have met him he would have met him at the beginning of Infinity War briefly, right? >> I mean, >> briefly, >> that's not even [laughter] >> Oh, dude. No, but he said not even cuz Yeah, they were in the same vicinity, but I don't think uh >> Spider-Man went to space. >> Yeah, I'm not sure. >> Oh, at the funeral. >> Yeah. Yeah, I guess maybe they >> in theory they've spoken offcreen, but that's kind of the point. It's like when have they ever shared a scene? This is storytelling, so you might want to >> This used to be >> this used to be Black Widow's special thing because of their connection that she could calm him down, you know? >> Yeah. >> But now it just sounds so casually here. It's just like, okay, >> all right. >> In the new additional scenes for the Endgame re-release, they'll remember that they always meant to do this and they just never got around to it. Maybe this works though because uh Bruce decides to let himself get dragged off the building by the debris and luckily Hulk and all the debris lands on a rooftop instead of on a whole bunch of innocent people even though Hulk is [clears throat] very much strong enough to crash through a rooftop cuz we saw it happen in Avengers. Um it's very lucky is dead. In a good movie, this could have been a really neat dynamic where you have him like if Hulk dransforms, then the weight of the, you know, the building will and the webs will pull him down. But obviously, if he's strong enough to support the, you know, the the building parts, he's dangerous as the Hulk. So, it you could do something interesting with that kind of dynamic if this was a a good movie. But >> y >> don't worry, it's all right. Everything turns out fine. and he's >> all good, but it's all Jean's vault. >> And so, um, yeah, Jean gets in the vault. Frank shoots two guards in the legs, >> which is like, it's weird that that matters to you shooting them in the Which, by the way, I find it silly that people like, "Yeah, we're shooting in the legs. That doesn't matter." It's like, okay, would you like to have a bullet in your leg? I doubt it. >> Biggest um biggest blood vessels in your body are in your thighs. >> What if you hit the bone? What if you hit the kneecap? Well, one of the things we learned in, you know, the scouts and search and rescue is like, yeah, if someone like breaks their, you know, their femur up there, like don't move them because if a blood if a bone splinter or something punctures that, you know, big ass artery down there, they can bleed and bleed and bleed and bleed and that is bad, >> you know. It's just it's uh it's no lethal rounds, Meza says. Oh, I said the Punisher shoots them. >> Yeah, the Punisher >> with his very lethal rounds cuz she even threatens to kill uh if they don't get rid of their weapons. Look. All right. Don't try there's no there's there are no holes to poke here. Okay. It's it's [clears throat] it it's just a bad movie. [laughter] The the only holes are its holes and we're poking them out right now. And so um yeah. >> Yeah. Just like this this is something as well that you know you have to consider on a level of man getting all these people to do all these things. We haven't really spent much time with how it destroys their lives existentially. feels like the film's not interested in that >> cuz of course the immense damage now to Hulk, the immense damage to to everyone that she's come across and you'd be like, "Oh yeah, what's this going to do to Punisher?" Do you think being mind controlled into shooting innocent people, man? A guy like him. >> Mhm. >> You know, who knows what that'll do to him. >> Yep. >> Bruce is just like, I got to kill myself. [laughter] >> Or someone will take over my mind and destroy the city. >> Yep. But uh yeah, so so uh Jean says to me, "Where is she?" But it's it's doesn't matter. Spider-Man gets inside, disarms Frank, and places the inhibitor on her neck, which disables her powers. And then Meza shoots Jean with a tranquilizer, which uh for some reason Spider-Man looks stunned by. It's like, dude, that's just like the correct decision. And then uh Jean says Sarah before passing out, >> which uh might want to have said a little more there, Jean, but all right, fine. Just stick >> the tranquilizer was working too fast. >> Didn't work that fast on his cyst. I mean, who knows? >> No. >> So, uh, yeah, Bruce is placed in an ambulance and he's still asking if anybody's been hurt, but nobody will answer him. >> Well, no, no, no, no. That's not what happens. Uh, I think Frank and Peter uh walk up to him while the police are with him and they explain what happened. I think that's what happens. >> I think that's your psychosis playing up there. That does not happen. >> No, that I mean that would h Oh, that's a that that must have is is that something that happened? They talked about that happening. They didn't show it. They talked about that happening. >> I don't think uh I think unfortunately this is your delusions playing tricks on you. >> Did Oh, I invented all right. Yeah, sorry. They they abandoned the Hulk. They abandoned Bruce. They abandoned one of the most important heroes in the universe. >> They did they did indeed abandon the guy who risked his life to save everyone's lives in the universe. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Mhm. Yep. So, yeah, that's it. Um, and Mezer approaches Spider-Man. That's it for Bruce, by the way. You won't see him again. Um, Mezzer approaches Spider-Man and thanks him for himself. And Spider-Man asks if Sarah means anything to Mezer. And listen carefully. This is what he says. He says, "Before you got the inhibitor on her, she managed to get into my mind for a moment. Sarah is the name of somebody I worked with who recently passed. Somehow the memory of Sarah must have affected her. This is what he says. >> Why would you say that? Didn't need to say any of that. [laughter] >> My note is Mezer was obviously lying here because he's obviously lying here. >> But also bear in mind exactly the configuration of what he said. He didn't say while I was mind controlled by Jean, I was still able to think about Sarah. He said when she got into my mind, you know, she got into my mind and Sarah is somebody I knew who who died. So maybe that's where she got it from. The point is what he says here doesn't appear to be incompatible with what we have already seen about how uh Jean's mind control works. Namely that she does gain access to information about the people that she mind controls. >> He is lying, but what he said cannot be proven a lie. Yes, you can't prove that it's a lie. It doesn't appear to be incompatible with what we've seen in terms of how uh in terms of how it works cuz what he said here says nothing about his conscious experience of like where he was versus where he woke up, which is going to be very important later in the film. Just bear that in mind. >> So, um yeah, and Spider-Man says he wants to speak with Jim when she wakes up. And Mezc's like, "Yeah, sure." But she's going to be kept on Roosevelt Island, so you know, you can do that. You know that later. Which brings us to uh second act low point. [laughter] >> It brings us to the most memory holy part of the movie for me cuz it's just time happens. I guess >> this is the part where you're like, "Oh, the movie's done. She's captured. Things are wrapped up. We're all good to go." But the movie just persists. It just insists on existing. >> Yeah. And then it's like we got loads of movie left. You're like, "Oh, all right. Yeah, let's do it. I guess >> what could possibly happen? We're done. >> So, uh, yeah, I might as well just run through it. So, Peter returns to the hideout. MJ found and read Peter's letter. She asked Peter to take off the mask and she recognizes him from the party and from the donut shop all those years ago. And Peter says he kept a secret to protect MJ. She asked whether he was ever going to tell her. And Peter remains silent. So, she's pretty upset that he made this decision for her. And Peter explains, "I lost someone and they'd still be here if it wasn't for me. I didn't read you that letter because I didn't want anything like that to happen to you. I know it wasn't my decision to make, but you mean everything to me and I've been trying uh to live my life without you, but I can't. I love you. And then MJ takes a moment before saying this spell, it worked. All these memories you're saying we had together, I don't have them. I see why she would love you, the girl you wrote that letter to. Um, I understand that you did what you had to do to protect her. And for that, I'm so grateful, but I don't love you. I don't even know you. Sure. It's >> just I mean yeah like this I don't know are we not just like retreading what we already knew was the case like >> he does not know >> this is the premise. >> Yes worked. Obviously we know it did. >> It's not even the premise that this movie began with. It's the premise that the last movie ended with. >> The last movie ended with. Yeah, exactly. >> I just don't understand the rating of >> Why are we rehashing this? Yes, she doesn't. The spell works like we knew it did last movie. >> There's that. There's also we said earlier she's a theme puppet. >> If uh and I asked I asked Gary this, but uh Frinky, if I came to you and said, "Listen, buddy. I did a spell five years ago with a magical wizard and you actually believe this. You buy it completely. We were in love. Yeah, we were together. We had a we had a fall form relationship and uh you know I had to I had to through sacrifice saving the world, whatever have you had to get rid of all of it. Sorry, buddy. Um you know, it's tragic, I know, but I had to erase erase every part of your knowledge of of of I guess me in totality. Uh yeah. Anyway, so um tragic, I know, but hey, maybe we can we can pick back up where we left off. I assume instead of you saying, "I'm sorry, Müller. That that guy isn't the same guy as me and so I don't love you." You would be instead like, "Wait, what did you do to my brain? My >> Yeah. >> What [laughter] have you even did you kill me? Did you >> have >> you erased an integral part of like my social existence? Like you were >> as far as my life to the point where we loved each other and you removed all of the information. Is it just adjacent to the same problem that a lot of stories don't understand like mind control or possession or any of these things and the horrible implications? But yeah, if you just like delete someone's memories, you're kind of like getting rid of that person. >> You're killing a part of them. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You are a you are comprised of these things. So if it suddenly gets snipped out and gone Yeah. Like you kind of you you could maybe say that you kind of killed that person. >> Like removing a brick from a wall. >> Yes. Exactly. >> I'm not going to be concerned with making sure his feelings aren't hurt and that I can tell him and explain to him, I don't know, philosophically or epistemologically like how this would work, what is true about us and what it means to be true about memory and people. I would instead just be like, who am I? What did you do to me? What the [ __ ] >> What else did you take out that you're not, you know, how much did that comprise? >> What aren't you telling me? Can I even trust any of this? Is this the first time we've had this conversation or have you done this multiple times? >> Yeah, it's it's a horror >> the Guardians of the Galaxy 3 conversation with uh with Mantis. >> Oh my god, >> that's a good Thanks, James. >> How many times has you done this? You can just do this whim. How many times has this happened? >> Right. You might have to grab him and scream in his face, what am I? That might that might actually elicit that kind of response. >> What am I? She's so obviously unable to articulate like what this means for her and her life and what it's done to her. Instead, she has she's like shackled to saying, "I'm sorry, Peter, but you know, the person you loved and who loved you just doesn't exist anymore." >> Is this Yeah, it's a bit It's a bit >> That is you. That was you guys already. >> That was the payoff of No Way Home, guys. That was It was a lot more subtle, I guess. I don't know what to say at this point. They needed it. They needed to be spelled out and then it's like, "Oh, wow. That's a That's an amazing movie right there. [ __ ] that John Watts, loser piece of [ __ ] You suck." >> A lot of people have been doing that. They've been very mean to John Watts. There was even a guy who said like, "Fuck you, John Watts." And then his tweet got a little bit popular and then he was like, "Well, actually, no. Homecoming is like my favorite movie, Spider-Man movie." >> Um, yeah. I don't have patience for that kind of thing. It's just like you're so desperate to farm engagement on Twitter that you just like what betray like your own like beliefs [laughter] just completely and utterly >> doing the charity and saying well let's say you know somebody who genuinely does believe that they really do hate John why >> and why is this better cuz this isn't better than that like I don't really understand what he did to piss off so many uh fans he put Spider-Man in an environment where he doesn't swing from skyscrapers >> right he puts He has Spider-Man swing around, but the suit doesn't wobble a bit in the wind, even though the Remy suit doesn't do that either. Um, he he it's because uh it's because he has relationships with other superheroes in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, just like this movie has with him interacting with people like Hulk and Gan Gray and Punisher, who aren't Spider-Man characters. It's because the visual effects were bad on a movie that got rushed out the door that he had no control over or not the film getting released in 2021 when it was made during co like I don't know it's it's it's just kind of >> it's kind of crazy how much essentially slander John Watts gets when given the circum given the circumstances that number one he inherits a Spider-Man movie where he's locked in that Spider-Man's origin has already happened well before his movie is set because of what happened in Civil War in in uh Far From Home. He's locked in that his movie takes place after Endgame and he needs to incorporate that and he is obliged to incorporate what was already present in his prior movie, but also the further developed relationship between him and Tony that occurred in a movie that he didn't make that occurred in Infinity War and Endgame. And he was locked in on that. And then he was locked in on figuring out how to make No Way Home work when it was supposed to come out after Multiverse of Madness, but then Multiverse of Madness got delayed. and he had no ability to determine when that movie was coming out cuz Sony wanted that movie coming out in 2021 made during co under like intense pressure and time constraints and that he even managed to like create a coherent through line for Spider-Man that everybody now says was a [ __ ] lie that he wasn't clearly intending to do an arc that spans across three movies that that's a lie that is told now uh to try and justify how these movies that are actually pointless are not not pointless at all. It's just made up that it isn't obviously a whole big trilogy that is about him going on his arc to become Spider-Man. Like I don't know, man. It's just crazy to me. Like, and then this is the movie that you get as a consequence. >> All your characters are ruined. Nothing makes sense. I mean, >> like it's worth to say like the the trilogy that came, you know, the Spider-Man trilogy that we got here before this, like there there is great stuff in there. Like, >> yeah, >> better than good. Some of it is like it's legitimately great. low by sure but like >> the highs are high. >> Please tell me how Vulture, Mysterio or Green Goblin or by extension Electro Do uh how their dysfunction whatever dysfunction you could point to which you will struggle a little bit because they're relatively coherent heroes uh villains rather all of them that can even approach what we've got right now with Gan. Please tell me may be the worst. To be to reiterate, Gan might be the worst of all the villains. >> Possibly. I think it's a real competition. >> An argument can legitimately be made that of of the the dredge that we have of terrible villains in the MCU at this point. She might somehow be sitting at the top of the heap. The worst of the worst. >> The anti- John Walker phenomenon. It's they tried so hard to make a villain, they accidentally made a hero. And here they're trying so hard to make someone who's got a tragic backstory or they accidentally make a really really horrible villain. It's um >> it's kind of it's just remarkable. All the accusations you can make about any flaws or perceived or real in the the last three of these movies all apply much more strongly to this one. But >> this is a villain Spider-Man villain and it's a and it's a villain that doesn't have any real connection to Spider-Man at all. It's just because Spider-Man was the first person and the main person to get in her way. If it was Yolena, which it could have been because it's in New York, or the New Avengers, it could just as easily translate to them. Anyway, you know, yeah, good >> caught dead fighting crimes. So, >> yeah. So, you know, good stuff. Anyway, uh there that was there was that scene and that that's the end of that. And so Peter takes MJ home and uh she invites him to meet Ned and they come up with a very unconvincing story of how they met, but Ned believes it. And so Peter and Ned work on a Lego X-wing while talking about Spider-Man stuff. >> Also like the fact that like none of this should be happening. I mean, if anything, Peter should have never taken off his mask when MJ said so. He should have gotten the [ __ ] out of there and not No, he's just get away. Got to get away. But also, I guess if you've gotten to this point and she says, "Hey, do you want to come up and talk to Ned?" Peter should have said, "No, I don't want to involve him in any of this. That's the whole [ __ ] point of the last movie. This guy will not >> This film disagrees with that. >> It disagrees. >> This film does not agree with that point that he should do this. He should put them in danger." >> So, this film, I guess, would say that the like Peter was wrong to do what he did in Far From Home. Not because of the mind wipe stuff or but it would like the reasoning to >> you shouldn't do it alone or something. You should involve people even if it means that they die. >> Just involve them in ways that don't get them involved with the Spider-Man part of your life if you have to. >> Yeah, that's actually what he needed to do, which is Yeah. Just kind of try and build a life for yourself, but never ever tell them that you're Spider-Man. >> Talk to people. >> That that cute blonde chick in the elevator. Maybe say hi. >> And then she's like, "Hi, I'm Jean." And then it's like, "Oh, there you go." Or, "Hi, I'm Felicia." And it's like, "Oh, there you go. You can I mean it's I don't know. It just seems like obviously cuz to me this scene is totally indulgent. Ah look it's Peter and Ned doing Lego. Look at how great friends they are. It's like yeah man that's a lot easier than building a new relationship where you don't have John Watt stuff there that you can rely on >> cuz again everything about this all of this relies on John Watt's work by the way. Like if you like this and you enjoy the dynamics here of bringing back MJ and Ned in any capacity, that's John Watts's like work that it's built upon. Without that, you've got nothing. >> Which is to the point that the film will do flashbacks from the home trilogy. Yeah. >> Uh and show those visuals because it relies on the it reli you loving the film relies on the films from that guy that you hate for no reason. I mean, there's there's plenty of problems with those, but I would say no reason. Like, you could there's there's >> no The problem the problem is that the problem is that like a lot a lot of the criticisms that people levy at those films, they just abandon any of that sort of line of argument for a whole bunch of other Marvel films that have similar worse problems like in terms of plot constru. So, it'll be interesting to watch the evolution of this one because this film has tenfold any issued highlight from that trilogy for sure, >> while also then >> sort of like poaching the final payoff of that the previous film, but like bungling it in repetition, which is really [ __ ] odd. And then using all of its potency from the other film. It feels like a No Way Home DLC. >> Really awkwardly stapled on in a rush to just make a bit extra money, which is ironic, of course, because it's going to be like the best selling Spider-Man ever. But, um, why do you think that is? because people still have a very deep interest in this Spider-Man in particular. >> I would say yes. It's uh very much goodwill Spider-Man for a very long time. It's been it's been grown up a little. >> I mean, even me >> going into this, I was like, you know, my fingers were crossed. I was like, don't [ __ ] it up. Don't [ __ ] it up. Don't [ __ ] it up. Now, they did titanically almost in an unprecedented way. But like, at least I went in going like, I care about this character. I really like the ending of, you know, Far No Way Home. I really like it. Homecoming was great. like I'm I'm here. Don't Don't screw the pooch. And it did. Total A rapage 9,000. >> Oh, but there was there was that bad CG green screen in and No Way Home with that shot with Flash. So, [ __ ] that movie. >> Meanwhile, Thunderbolts is great, even though it's got way more plot. It's it's got like as many plot problems as you could point to in something like Far From Home, but then absence of character writing that's positive or coherent. >> Yeah. Normally the terrible things don't have any positive results whatsoever, but at least >> I think that's what drives me crazy is like, oh yeah, Fantastic 4 is a good movie. It's like, dude, it's got a terrible plot and it's got basically like no particularly strong character writing. Meanwhile, like all of a sudden when it's like the John Watts films, like all of a sudden it switches on hardcore in terms of like analysis of the plot, but then it just disappears when it's Thunderbolts >> or when it's this Spider-Man temporarily. Of course, like this will only last so long before it gets torn to shreds as well. Everyone gets their turn on the on the >> I just need some table. God damn it. That's all I want. I just want some damn consistency. >> Well, anyway, and fundamentally the uh there's there's a writing choice to be made. you can actually reinccorporate Ned and MJ. I think you could even have done it in a movie that did a lot better than this one. This one fails in so many other ways on top of it. But, uh, it just seemed like the obvious direction of exploring the isolation through not having him lonely, stalking, and then reconnecting to instead be forced into making more connections for other things, right? Like his job, like school, like technology, >> like um practicality with whatever have you. It's like that just seems the way you do it. and he's just isolated as a person that all these new characters notice that and they're like, "You're kind of weird, bro." And he's like, "Yeah, I that's that's great. Stay away from me. Don't me. You don't need it." Which they play with in this film. They're like that the dewolf person. She's like, "I don't know much about you. You don't know much about me." Like, "All right." >> Mhm. >> You should get some friends. >> That's what I'm saying. Like there's Oh, and they have Leena be like, "I I'm glad you have friends. You're not alone. You're pretty lonely." It's like you're not really You're just telling me all these things. You're not really >> Mhm. would have been nice to have, you know, replaced all of these random awful characters with a new set, a new world. And to be honest with you, I think Sony should have opted for that in the sense of uh let's build out like we we'd mentioned the Osbornes or Dr. Connors or Black Cat or other FR like you you got a you got so much leverage and um momentum with Peter, you might want to infuse some new characters with him before I know something happens. >> Yeah, exactly. Instead of instead of going like, "Yeah, let's make Craven the Hunter or MorbiiUs." >> Yeah. Which is crazy, by the way. Madam Web, MorbiiUs, Craven the Hunter. These are all horrible, horrible attempts to bank further on like a spider universe. Remember those posters of was it Tom Holl, Spider-Man, and Morbius or something? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then they couldn't make up their mind. >> Of course, them all. This is what I'm saying is like they're getting away with shooting duds constantly because Spider-Man is just charging ahead so they can keep trying. And it's just like you should probably, you know, have some better plans here >> cuz I I I think at this point with how how potent Spider-Man is like they really don't need the MCU at all. >> Uh probably some benefit that is extracted from Spider-Man movies being able to bring in Hulk and stuff like that. But I think I >> But the thing is is that I mean I don't know why they wouldn't be trying to do Spider-Man villains, you know, like I mean that would work totally fine. I mean, you know, case in point in those other movies, as much as they incorporated like Iron Man or Tony Stark or Doctor Strange, they are about Spider-Man characters. >> If they just went to Spider-Man's rogues gallery and used those instead of the, you know, the Marvel characters, the the ones that we we got for the MCU, and it really was like completely decoupled from the MCU. Realistically, do you think people would really notice >> with how little they actually interface it in with the MCU in this movie anyway? >> [ __ ] it. Just don't bother if it's they The only reason they bother is for the cameo purposes. That's it. It's not like real storytelling. >> They've gotten blatant confirmation at this point that the writing don't [ __ ] matter. You'll be fine. You'll make plenty of money on on Spider-Man specifically. Um you drop out Hulk and Punisher, drop in, you know, you could bring in Toby Magguire Spider-Man again. make a full movie with those two. Like, who cares? No one's gonna It's not like they care about like multiverse mechanics at this point. I know. I know it's been said. It's like they wanted a street level film that originally this was going to be a multiverse film and they wanted it street level and stuff. I just I'm I'm amused because brings us back to the fundamental question of like, you know, you can write a multiverse film well and you can write a street level film awful. >> Yep. Yeah. Anyway, um so uh the uh they're they're up there playing with their Legos, having fun. Peter Ned goes off to get some food, and then MJ says they look like best friends before advising Peter that he should tell Ned uh the truth. And then that brings us to something that got brought up before, which is Peter explains to MJ that when Jean stole her body, she and Peter kissed and Peter is sorry. I figure I'll just let that linger a little bit. Th this is really awkward because the film recognizes that it should be acknowledged while not acknowledging the primary number one wrongdoer in that situation. >> Who actually who did that? It wasn't him. That was not a him problem. >> Many such cases, I'm afraid. How long ago was it that the boys did this? >> Just uh >> yes, it was boring. Like, yeah. I mean, it's just it's the fact that they felt like it needed to be acknowledged while it's like, dude, you wrote this. You wrote this in your movie. You wrote it while ignoring the number one wrongdoer. But anyway, um this prompts MJ to say that she doesn't remember anything. From her perspective, it was as though she was instantly transported from her apartment to the street. um which is a bit awkward because she definitely woke up while she was falling. But um this prompts Peter to conclude that Mezer is lying even though what Meza said is not incompatible with this. also find it a bit weird because it's like >> if if Mets is lying all you've it's in the same vein of like doesn't the lie depend like like he's not it's not like he's lied in terms of I knew he was lying when he said she was evil she's actually it's like he lied about whether even if you knew right he lied about her having mind controlled him but we know she can do that and we know she's killed innocent people we know she's mind raped people so like what what have you learned and it's like well that he told me something that wasn't And I don't know why, but that doesn't really mean anything for Gene necessarily. >> Sorry, it is incompatible. How would he know she was in his mind? Then why didn't Peter immediately say, "Hey, man. How do you know that she mind controlled you? I never told you that's something that she could do >> except that everybody knows that's what she can do." >> I'm dressing this. It's just like, yeah. >> No, I got you. like the I don't know why people don't know this, but Meza is uniquely aware of the mind control situation and they were like in a secure base to prevent her from being able to do it to them like like they knew what the limits of it were. And in post, you have Frank, the Hulk, and everybody discussing what the [ __ ] happened. Are we to believe that Peter has once again not explained to anybody what her powers are? And then of course you have Mets basically saying like I have missing time and I know that she can mind control people. >> I my assumption is that she mind controlled me. >> Yeah. And again if that was the film's explanation then why didn't Peter immediately say oh but I didn't tell you that she could mind control you. So you must be lying to me right now. Right in front of my face you're lying to me. What MJ said doesn't reveal like wait a minute didn't even know that Gene could do mind control. Stop. Just stop it. It's a badly written film. >> Sorry. I'm not sure that the >> It just is. >> Someone's asking like, "Were the soldiers 30 ft away?" I don't know. But as we were talking about, I'm not sure if she needs line of sight, but I don't think she needed line of sight to reattempt controlling the Hulk, right? Or did she? >> Also, why wouldn't is there any reason why she can't just like if she just immediately flooped into uh into his head and flooped out, wouldn't she just get all the information immediately? >> Yeah, we I think I mentioned that. I don't know. >> She already won. Yeah. >> I think she says when confronting him like, "You're gonna give me what I want or I'll shoot you in the head." And it's like, "No, you just jump into his head, idiot." >> No, just floop in. Floop in and floop out. >> Oh, there you go. Oh, she's, you know, I know what's happened now. >> But, uh, >> no. Oh, well. >> No. Yeah. The the thing is Spider-Man could be like, "You lied to me, Madera. I didn't say anything about her mind control." And it's like, dude, I know she has mind control. Everyone does at this point. Have you seen the victims in it wake? Have you seen all the security footage? You know what she's doing. You're not the only one. >> Also, why why why was it that MJ explaining the nature of how she didn't know what happened to her made you realize that Mezer didn't know that Jean could do mind control? Do you understand? There is no connection there in that logic. Sorry. It's just doesn't make any sense. Anyway, moving on. >> No, not moving on. So, Peter knows MJ explicitly remembered [ __ ] before she hit the street. So, she's lying or she's an untrustworthy worthy narrator, >> which gives even more reason to think that everyone has a different experience cuz MJ doesn't remember when she woke up. >> You know, you can't just base everything off of that. Simultaneously, as we mentioned earlier, you've got way more accounts well before MJ that were explicit. The guy who's getting put into the [ __ ] ambulance says like, "Spiderman, I don't remember doing any of the things I did. I don't know why he needed MJ to say anything anyway." And then MJ if anything only adds uh like a disproportionate piece of information and that is that you won't have reliably reliable memory as to what happened cuz what what is Spider-Man to do if he runs up to Meder and says nobody remembers anything when they might get mind controlled so you lied to me and he goes oh well I remembered it. >> Also what I said wasn't incompatible with that. I said that I that's someone I knew who died. >> Do you understand what I'm saying? Like we've been over that point. I'm talking about how how can Spider-Man know definitively that that is how it works if he's only got one sample size of a person. He should have more, but for some reason he treats it as only MJ when she's already unreliable. >> Like, what are you saying, Matt Scur? It's like, I don't know, man, that mind control is floopy and weird. Like, what do you want me to say? >> Also, Dar, need I remind you, Spider-Man? She drove a tank through the middle of New York. Okay, so I don't even know why you're talking to me right now. >> That happened a long time ago, but we remember. about any issues that you got with me. Okay. >> You know, the other thing too, just to compound all of this, this is what I mean. It fails at like eight different layers. Why would Meza make that lie when he knows full well no one remembers anything? >> Like from the from the point of view like wait cuz this is so funny. You have to attack it from two different directions. His lie works. I want to be clear. His lie is a good lie. It's a very strong lie. You can get away with it. The writers believe it's a bad lie. If it's a bad lie and it's built on the fact that he's talking about something mechanical with the mind control, why doesn't he know that's how it works when he studied it more than anyone? >> Well, we know he has unique knowledge. We'll get to it, but he is he's probably the he's he's probably more knowledgeable on how it works than Gene is. Um, he is very knowledgeable on how it works molecular level. Like he's brain maps and everything. He's uniquely well placed to understand how the thing works. So he has no incentive to tell a lie that he knows to be a lie and a bad lie to boot without which uh there'd be no lead in which like he he just opens his mouth and dooms himself because he's an incompetent [ __ ] So yeah, pretty bad movie, man. Um [laughter] anyway, we still got a lot more left. So uh Peter called Yolena and asked her if she can find some connection between Gene and Sarah, and she instantly does. She says, "Damage Control scrubbed a lot of information about Jean's sister, Sarah Gray, who was also a telepath who Damage Control captured and experimented on." I do find that funny as just a a collection of things. Yeah, Damage Control scrubbed a lot of information about Sarah Gray, who is a telepath that they captured and experimented on, and they scrubbed a lot of information about her. I don't uh you know information while I have acquired access to an insane amount of relevant and important information. >> They didn't scrub it. Well, clearly how did you get this? >> How do you [laughter] >> I see they've scrubbed information. You're like what information? It's like I don't know. It's scrubbed. >> No, the stuff is not there. They forgot to erase all of the empty lines where they deleted the text. Well, you'd think that if you are going through scrubbing, the first thing you get rid of is the name of the person whose information you're trying to hide. >> Yeah. Jean as well. >> Even though a lot of her stuff was scrubbed, too. Even though not the fact that she's a telepath, not the fact that there's a relationship with damage, >> which by the way, good god, what a shot to the foot. They shouldn't have written any of that [ __ ] because it's going to when we get to the flashback going ruin everything. Sure is. >> Point in Chernobyl. >> But El Yolena doesn't want to help. She wants to She's still in the spa. So, she's just still chilling. >> Even though now it's absolutely confirmed as mind control and experimentation >> confirmed. Something that she specifically personally invested in. It ruined her life. She had her mind controlled for years. >> Yeah, it's remarkably onetoone uh to her situation and she doesn't miss a beat in not giving a [ __ ] And to be clear, you might be like, "No, but that's Elena's aloof. Elena's like, "No, I watch Black Widow." Yolena is so upset about what happened in her life. It causes her to like drop to tears. It destroyed her. She was in it more like for the vast majority of her life compared to Natasha. Like she she was still mind control when we met her in Black Widow. She basically didn't live the vast majority of her life. >> Yeah. The majority of her life she had no autonomy. It was totally stolen from her. And now she's found out that there was another girl who got abducted and experimented on and mind control was involved. And hey, Spider-Man, that's it's small fried. Go put it here. Go get >> Well, and of course that's the personal stake, but then it's a huge deal cuz that this means there's major corruption in a like an adjacent partnered institution for justice with cuz the new she mentions they have like cross sort of uh in investigations and stuff with the new Avengers. >> Do you understand what I mean? There couldn't be more motivation for her >> and yet she's like, "Well, no, go and h." Yeah. So, hence Yolena was assassinated in 2 minutes of screen time. >> It's uh it's impressive. I would be more upset if I gave any single of a [ __ ] for her. But like, god, she's so annoying and the writers are so obsessed with her and she's going to be important in Doomsday. >> Yeah, >> they really are trying to make you >> the leader of the new Avengers. >> The leader. >> Are they all going to be in Doomsday? At least >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, the new Avengers. Yeah, all of the new Avengers are in Doomsday. Yeah. >> Great. Awesome. >> They're one of the core teams. What is she going to do against Dr. Doom? >> Just trauma bond. >> Smack him with a baton. >> Trauma bond. >> Throw a potato. >> Yeah, >> trauma trauma baton. >> Trauma potato. >> We got We got Jean's unconscious and we're doing a flashback. She's recalling the last day that she spent with Sarah who was demonstrating to her the concept of hopping between different people in the middle of the park. Um, which is funny because it's like, dude, we've already seen we know how this works, but we got to introduce it again. It's like, ah, but it's Sarah who >> who taught her. And and then and then Gene wonders if Sarah could control everybody in the park, but neither of them are powerful enough yet to do that, >> which is like terrifying. This is the flashback that's supposed to tell you this is why you care about this character. This is why you're going to have to understand later. This is why Jean's doing all the stuff she's doing is that, you know, her sister was just such a kind, lovely Oh, no. Wait a minute. No, she's just teaching her how to make mind slaves. >> Anything worse. >> Yep. [laughter] >> Here's how you do it. Also, when I'm more powerful, I can do it to everyone. >> It I I want to be clear because it matches everything in this stupid [ __ ] movie. This is played as like this. It would be the same sort of format. Oh, you know what it's like? It's like the uh Daredevil season one Netflix where uh Stick is teaching Matt how to focus his senses and what he can hear and what he can deduce from those sounds. >> Really good scene. >> Yeah. >> Um and it's somewhat wholesome tuned with information that lets us understand his abilities and then showing like the character of how they're coming together. >> Uh I dare I say that when you do scenes like that, you want the wholesome element and this one has it when they're mind raping people. Mhm. >> It is insane. You want to shake the director and be like, "Bro, what are you doing? This is horrible." He's just like, "No, no, no, no. They're having fun. They're having fun. Having fun." >> Making me side with damage control, who you want to think are the evil villains, but like they're doing the right thing. >> This justifies everything. You know, sometimes the writing one of of one of these movies just makes you question of like how much coke was this writer on, but this time like >> this. >> Yeah. I mean, this time I'm like, oh my gosh, what is their moral code there? Cuz how do you not spot these things in your own writing? Like how do you think this is okay thing to do? How how does your creates this >> moral compass or like don't you have some filter or do you know that you're writing like intentional are you write intentionally writing [ __ ] up people is good like what is going on and if not if you don't like this is such an easy thing to spot like this should have gotten lost in like the >> I mean you say it's easy to spot but many many people who have seen this film don't >> as like I mean >> I mean general audience stupid >> what? >> Wow. >> That's that's your hot take. Okay. Not mine. >> I love I love everyone >> to be honest. Cancel me. Don't cancel EAB. But uh >> cancels both. >> Yeah. But >> yeah. And those people are now getting like million paid millions and millions to think that. Right. No, they get paid zero dollars to go on Twitter and argue in defense of the movie, even though it doesn't make any sense. >> Sorry. Anyway, so you know, so they they see they see a mother there in the park with her kid, and Gene wonders how their mother could send them away just because they changed. And it seems like Sarah's more or less okay with their situation by comparison, cuz they have each other. Anyway, she's going to go get some ice cream. She's going to go get some ice cream. I can't imagine why the mother wouldn't want to be around these two psychopaths who could possess people. >> Goes off and uh and gets hit with a tranquilizer and captured by 50 guys with guns. And Meza's there, too. And then Jean yells out to Sarah and runs towards her, but none of the armed guys notice this. >> They don't notice the chicks that Sarah's been talking to this entire time. >> They would have been watching. Yeah. No, they they didn't know that that that's Yeah. No, it's it's just absurd. And then Sarah floops into Gan and sends her off. And by the time that Gene snaps out of it, Sarah's gone. So, yes, there's your point of reference for the tranquilizer. It actually it takes so long that she's able to mind control another telepath into uh into into heading off for a while while she's getting tied up and taken away. So yeah, good thing that they didn't capture both of them, otherwise it wouldn't be a movie, even though they would have got gotten both of them. How could they not get both of them? How did they only get one? And so, um, Jean wakes up, finds she's handcuffed to a chair, and she immediately tries to take over Betser, which I think is so unhinged. The first thing that she does when she wakes up is, "I'm going to steal your mind from you." It's like her go-to strategy. Isn't that like weird that >> instinctively like where am I? What's going on? What's my situation? >> Instinctively, she wants to steal someone's mind from them. That's like the first thing she does when she wakes up, >> but she can't cuz the inhibitor's there. So Meza's okay. And so Jean starts asking about Sarah, which prompts Meza to exposit essentially his ideology of, you know what, your powers are crazy. Uh, you probably shouldn't have them, but they'd do a lot of good, you know, if a more responsible person had them. And then uh Jean sees her which it just yeah she sees Sarah scrunchie. It's like they had it in the flashback and it's sitting on a desk and she again asks where she is and so Matza gets up and leaves and Gene discovers she's in like an advanced containment facility that has a window behind it which is pretty handy as might sort of become apparent later in the movie. If not if it was like in in the middle of a building with no windows nearby then um you know somewhere. Yeah. Then comes a particularly frustrating scene. Frank calls Spider-Man. He's swinging there. >> If we can just before that. >> So, this is one of those uh >> people realize something that is going to skewer this movie in future probably at least for a certain kind of group of people in terms of liking it. But if everything in that scene runs the Am I right that he says thanks to Spider-Man the uh the inhibitor? >> Yeah, I think so. So, Spider-Man with the help of Bruce Banner invented a universal power inhibitor that works on [ __ ] everyone, including Gan Gray and Spider-Man and the Hulk. >> And he gave it to the government. >> Yep. >> He gave it to the government, which means that they will be able to they have definitely they have definitely copied everything down about it, >> even though [clears throat] it will obviously get destroyed at the end of the partway through the movie. >> This is subtle >> job, Peter. might be the most crazy change to the universe we've ever had. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You've given the government the ability to deactivate anybody with superpowers. >> And to be clear, >> I think the scrolls might be the top one. I I guess it would be like the top >> I don't know how scrolls, but I assume that it would probably work pretty well, but I guess it probably would. But I I I guess I don't guess it would. >> That would be that would be great if like, hey, everybody line up and we're just going to put this on your neck to find out if you're a squirrel. They put it on and he's like, little bang was like, "All right, [laughter] >> it's like the scene from the thing but with scrolls and the inhibitor." [laughter] >> But of course, like it wouldn't be it was a stretch to create this thing, but they've done that. So, it's not a stretch for it to be presumably weaponized into like a rifle, I would assume. >> Well, which means you've already before the mutants even exist in the MCU properly, you've already got Yeah. basically you've already got X-Men Last End. You've already got like Sentinels. you've already got that before they've even been introduced properly. >> Reason I opened it that way is because I just saw a meme that was like Peter meets a mutant for the first time, creates a cure, gives it to the government. [laughter] >> Yes, that's pretty funny. >> We know what side he's on. >> Spider-Man will have made himself a mortal enemy of the Ax-Man right from the get-go. >> Um, but to be clear, I have no moral issue. If your only experience of them is two people who are mind raping, I'd be like, "Oh, >> probably want to sort that out." >> Imagine how he imagine how he should feel shortly about it. [laughter] >> Shortly. Yeah. >> But like it is one of the craziest moral decisions that's ever been made. And I don't even know that the director realizes it was made. >> No, you're right. It It's It's treated Yeah. It it doesn't it doesn't realize that Spider-Man has created a you even though it does cuz Bruce says like dude you're talking about something that could like stop the powers of everybody and then and then he builds it. This is what I mean like he put the line is in there that acknowledges it but then the film definitely doesn't acknowledge it. >> If it does play into the Sentinels do you think that they want to distance that you should feel it's Spider-Man that did it so that they're like you got it from anyway. Moving on. Oh look the damage control guys have it. you the DO they're going to they'll use it for evil and you're like wait >> Spider-Man he created it Spider-Man created it so >> hence the uh thanks to Spider-Man line which I find interesting like you might not want to put that in there if you don't want people thinking about it >> thanks to Spider-Man he created the Sentinels that are going to wipe out all the mutants >> the good news is this [ __ ] will not be mentioned ever again in any of >> No probably not >> ever we'll never have to have is that you have like >> you'll have like Tras create something like for uh he'll do it independently or something like that or uh or Striker he'll figure out some sort of experiment that'll uh that'll do it independent of that and then and then that will be forgotten about like I mean just like time travel has been completely forgotten about as a tool that's at their disposal >> the fountain of youth >> so yes they will forget just all manner of things that they've created that change the universe that they forget about but Um, we got a great scene here. So, Frank calls Spider-Man and announces that he knows what he's doing. And Spider-Man says, "Damage control kidnapped Jean's sister. Jean was just trying to find her. We were wrong about everything." [laughter] >> She objectively was not just trying to find her. That's why there were so many dead people. so much. >> Even though our introduction to um our introduction to Punisher in this movie was him chasing after an armored car minun. >> Well, how was just trying to find her sister? How' that have to do with him getting MJ and throwing her off the roof and all that? How was that helping? How was that her just trying to find her sister? >> Style points. >> So, yeah, this is and then Frank aptly retorts. You've seen what she can do, what she's capable of. You got to let her loose. Is that what you're going to do? You know what? I'll handle it my way. >> And you can't help but think, okay. >> Yeah. Yes. I mean, >> yeah. [laughter] >> I think it would be great if Frank could take a sniper rifle and just shoot a dead. That would be that would be wonderful if we can get that. >> That would be ideal. Yeah. She could just be dead and we would just not have problems except for all the ones that have been caused. But at least that that would be done. And honestly, she deserves it. Honestly, that's what she deserves. It's probably better than what she deserves if we're being >> She's one of the most evil creatures in this universe. So, >> sadistic evil psychopath killer. I mean, a quick death is probably kinder than what she deserves. >> Back in her cell, the gets turned off and she immediately tries to enter people's minds again. It's her go-to. Her go-to is, "I'mma get in your mind. I'm going to get in there and twist you and bend you to my will." That's her go-to in every situation. In a different movie, this villain's comeuppance at the end would be that somebody supplants her mind. She loses her autonomy and she has to suffer the kind of things that she's done to other people. >> Well, you know, like what >> they do and then she has a payoff saying I'm the only one that will ever like have the hands on my power, >> which is [clears throat] so weird from the creators cuz it's like but it's an evil power. At least how you're using it is evil. >> So, why is she using it as evil? You know what it reminds me of is um Magneto basically saying like no one will ever like put a needle to my skin ever again in reference obviously to him being cured of his mutant abilities to prevent him from doing damage to humans. Uh that is way more justifiable as a line considering the history and he's the villain >> and he's the villain and and and yet there is a greater amount of justification for his characterization than is present for for Jean >> even [ __ ] Thanos right from his in his [ __ ] up minded up he was trying to help the people of the world. Really, it's very awkward how how sadistic Jean is, you know? >> It really is. >> It's kind of crazy. >> If you made a bullet point list of all the bad things she does and just like handed it to someone, it's like you got a lot of explaining to do, man. That's a long ass list. >> Yeah. It's just, you know, okay. Yep. Anyway, but like I said, she tries to get into Mega's mind immediately, but they're beyond her jump radius. And so Gene asks what V-Max is and Mezer again says he doesn't know what it is. But uh Gan says that Sarah sent her a message telepathically which surprises me. It's like oh really from that distance. Anyway, let's start the test. And the test is that um or or basically his whole goal is that his work with Sarah revolved around identifying the source of her power and replicating it in any mind of their choosing. And so he experimented on Sarah for months and created a system which can force Gene to flimp um which allows him to chart her neural pathways. And then Meza says, "I hope you and I can honor her sacrifice." >> So yeah, I mean h I wonder what that means. He didn't need to say that, but I guess I guess he doesn't care. He could have acted like she was alive as like a bargaining tool or something like that. Yeah. Or just to not piss her off and make her more resistant. But I guess I don't know. You just want to >> Holy [ __ ] I've had like three different people tell me >> Magneto's comment related to Awitz. It's like how did you not I said said the needle relates to the cure cuz that's the conversation in X-Men 3 but that it means so much more with his history. What do you think I was alluding to? He was a tattoo. >> He got a tattoo in the 70s. Yeah, it was a phase. But you know, >> people like, "Well, did you know that [laughter] Magneto?" It's like, "Yes, yes, I did know this." It's It's not exactly [laughter] >> It's not exactly a hidden detail in those movies. >> Mhm. So, um, outside Spider-Man fights a bunch of guys and Me finds out about the intrusion and orders the hand to go and deal with Spider-Man. Spider-Man violent like forcefully breaking into a government facility like this is like that's going to have a lot of repercussions that the >> No, it's not. It's going to have zero repercussions. There's no Sakovia cords or nothing. Don't worry about it. >> He doesn't sneak in. He doesn't make a distraction. He just shows up at the front and beats the [ __ ] out of a bunch of guards who with his plot armor and he never gets shot and then that's that. >> That's worry about And so, um, during the experiment, Gene looks up at the ceiling and sees a vent that's marked ventax, which looks like V-Max. And so, she starts seething and, uh, and her neural pathways start lining up. And it's like, oh, what's going on? So, Jean looks at me and says, "You're a murderer." Which just feels a bit awkward given all the people that she's killed. But, uh, you're a murderer. The last thing my sister saw was this goddamn room and everything about me. And Matskco orders his subordinate to shut down the experiment. But Gene takes over his mind and stops Matser and then says the only hands that will wield this power are mine. And after this she triggers what can only be described as a massive telepathic blast which expands out from the island and into the city, trapping and freezing everybody in the blast radius. And we see cars crashing into each other, cyclists getting thrown off of their bikes. Um, people are dead for sure from this. And for reference, like what this is to them is like what happens with Xavier in in Logan where he he has his like conscious of it to the point that MJ gets in it and she's crying >> and this is happening to tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of people except for all the people that have died as a consequence of this big psychic blast that she's decided to do. >> So a plane somewhere definitely crushed. Well, just it's it's just the easiest thing in the world if you freeze a bunch of people in place in a busy city while they're driving cars or doing all manner of different things in hospital getting a you know a procedure done any number of things. >> Yes. >> Like people are dead. There's no way that nobody died and she did. And why did she do this? >> I hope you of the city is dead. >> Why do this? And yes, the thing is is that as pointed out in chat, cars are shown to be crashing. You see, you see the destruction. >> People like freeze as they slide over the hoods of crashing cars. It's really like >> thinking showing us this. Why Why wouldn't she just freeze the facility itself? >> Yeah. I mean, that's one thing. She just wants to freeze the facility, but the bubble expands out into the city and it keeps expanding and she knows that it's doing that because later on she acknowledges that that's happening. It's worth knowing as well, of course, uh, hospitals, right? So, if you freeze all workers in hospitals, the this is like the the blip again. Um, but on the note of cuz, you know, we talked about this earlier, >> there seems to be [clears throat] an effort, weirdly, in parts of the film, for example, when the explosion goes off in the first act that they show everyone has escaped the building, or at least they they kind of do, they're supposed to kind of put that in your head. uh the guys who get shot in the legs, the there's some other there's efforts being made to show that despite Jean's crazy wacky actions that people make it out, but then they also have the guy who just gets hit by the car. It's like, well, >> Mhm. But but then >> yeah, it's the reason why it's like creative thinking because the the hospitals versus the airplanes versus the the obvious shrapnel and collateral damage from the explosions versus the bullets going into windows versus like everything we've ever talked about in this whole stream. I really want to talk to the director. I want to be like, "What's going on, man? Like you really really want me to believe no one died?" And then he's like, "No one did die." Like what do you >> what do you mean? True. >> Yes, they did. They did. >> Also, it doesn't even matter if nobody did because the intention to do this and the inevitable consequences of it are so plainly obvious that she is culpable. She is responsible. She knows what could have happened and she still did it anyway and she doesn't care. >> She just doesn't care about people. She explicitly says that later like that people are monsters. She just doesn't have much regard for anybody at all. Like this is the type of stuff that is like not even like lifelong jail time, just electric chairs straight away. This this [laughter] one is danger to the society even from a [ __ ] cell. >> I mean like what Frank Castle kind of did mentioned earlier was just true like you just like this person's evil. They have insane power. You can't risk letting them live. >> Oh man be left alive. >> Someone's just mentioned and it's the beautiful opposite. I know we've talked about it before, but it's like it's the opposite of the blood on the shield thing. It's like, yeah, there's there's no blood on the Don't worry about it. You're like, dude, >> there's no blood on the psychic powers. Yeah. And it's funny because Walker gets nothing for number one, dude soldier. Like, apprehending him is actually just logistically difficult. Uh, number two, this dude just tried to kill him. Like, just outright just tried to kill him. Number three, he killed his best friend right in front of his eyes. And now he's trying to flee so that he can go and escape and then do more evil, >> more terrorism. >> But but there was blood on the shield. So [ __ ] Walker, three time Medal of Honor recipient. Meanwhile, Jean just sheep. >> There was no blood on her psychic blast, so it's all good. [laughter] >> If if they put blood on it, then it would be even though they show again that MJ is crying as she's stuck in this field. It's traumatizing. They decided to have to show how yeah terrible and traumatizing it was, but then they're like, "No, >> I bring up that it's akin to Logan." But the whole point in Logan is it's horrible. It's horrible. It's something that he doesn't want to do. And when it happens, he's he's horribly traumatized about the fact that he's done it to the point that he's weakly apologizing to everybody as he's getting wheeled out by Logan. Like, it's terrible. But in this, it's like, wow, look at how cool her power is. But also, they're crying because of how horrible it is. But also, let me show you all of the cars that are crashing into people. What are you doing, Mr. Cretton? >> I like that his name is crashing. [clears throat] [laughter] >> So, um, yeah. So, Gina Gina now has basically ultra power. Like she can she's got like telekinesis essentially now. >> She had the power in her all along. >> Destroy. Yes. destroys the inhibitor chip and she sits in the cell looking at the scrunchie. Oh man, how tragic. And so Spider-Man, he finds the cell which is surrounded by the hand. And so Gan mind controls them and Spider-Man says he's come to help Jean. He apologizes for Sarah and for quote getting it so wrong. >> Uh what a [ __ ] Yeah. >> What did he get wrong exactly? >> Nothing at all. >> He got wrong that that she would he she just wanted to find Sarah. She just wanted to find Sarah. Everything she did can be directly related to her finding out that information. She couldn't have just instantly won from the beginning easily. >> Yeah. Now, now might be the time. It might be the time to actually talk about that. What was her plan? Her plan is she needs to get to Meter to get information that he has on Sarah. And the way that she did that was mind controlled an old lady to drive a tank into a facility to [laughter] get Scorpion to a different place so that she could walk him out the front door so she could mind control him to go to other facilities to just ask people what V-Max is only to be halted by Spider-Man. At which point she decides to mind control Spider-Man's girlfriend and try to throw her off the roof. >> Not even a girlfriend, his ex. >> His ex-girlfriend. and then and then goes to university to get Bruce Banner to turn him into Professor Hulk to try and bust into the vault where Mezer is directly at the headquarters only to be stopped by Spider-Man instead of just finding some way to quietly in a clandestine fashion just to floop into Mezer just by finding him directly just by flooping into people that work at damage control and working her way in getting him. >> You just you cannot fail this. It is. It is just >> you just you just have to get within 30 work. >> Yeah, just wait at home. >> Well, she's a she's an information [ __ ] archive. Just boom boom boom around all of dam damage control. Find out where he lives by being in his head for a second. Wait till he goes home, goes to sleep, take over his body, do whatever you want, and then kill him when you probably find out what happened. Done. Everything's over. >> Yeah. >> Nobody would ever know you did anything. >> Exactly. You just throw him off a cliff and then that's it. You're done. But instead, she decides to go about it in the most inefficient, devastating, catastrophic, massive collateral damage and intentional damage and torment and torture as possible. >> If we were going to parody her, this is just it that we just do. >> This is what you would do. Mhm. So, you've got the big problem. She's evil and stupid, which is a great combo. We have been talking a lot about just how she might be the most evil, the most stupid villain. It's uh it's so weird cuz it's so important to push these two aspects like they are very different. Like she she's so incompetent and then also just so ridiculously evil that there's there's no stupider way to have conducted her plan and there's no weirder, more cruel way to have involved more people to hurt for no reason. And I would add to that that she's terribly overpowered. >> I mean, >> oh, now she is. Yeah. >> What I liked about X-Men from my recollection, I haven't like rewatched the originals from like 2000s, >> but it there there was clear mechanics to their powers and there was like limitations, actual limitations that they had and you could see them sort of struggle through it, whatever. You know, we saw it with Professor X and we saw it many times different characters and it's always something unique with each like power sets, but this time it's just she can do whatever whatever whenever on however large scale as long as the plot demands it. And it's just wow. I'm so excited to see X-Men in MCU. I'm just I can't wait. Love it. I think it will be [ __ ] >> I disagree. >> Yeah, it's a guy made the guy made thunderbolts. So, I'm sure it'll be great. >> Give that man Give that man another movie. >> Yep. No, such a great movie. Anyway, so um yeah, the the hand she makes the hand fight and try and kill Spider-Man and uh Spider-Man tries to get in the door, but um it's a little bit too sturdy. Can't get through. And then Gene uses damage control weapons against Spider-Man which disintegrate his webs. And upon doing so, Gan says, "Isn't it funny how your friends from damage control developed a special weapon just for you?" It's like was not really funny, is it? I mean, it's just kind of expected. >> Yeah. I think she specifically says like in case you turn evil or in case you turn bad like Well, yep. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. >> That makes sense. Or does this or is this film statement that when Batman develops countermeasures to the Justice League that that is immoral? That's like evil. He shouldn't do that. >> Yeah, you should completely trust extremely powerful entities and agents within the world. But the but the film like shows the police and I basically all of New York and especially like the police having a very positive cooperative relationship with him. So, it's like, okay, so what happens if Jean mind controls Spider-Man? Then what do they do? Well, nice to have these weapons so that you say that, by the way, >> because you might think, hey, she she cannot mind control Spider-Man because of his spider sense. Like, all right, fair enough. That's the rule they've made. Very lucky. But that's the rule they've made. Like, well, but now that her power is boosted, can she do it? And it's like, apparently not. No, she won't be able to do that. Except maybe she actually can actually layer. >> Seems a little bit uh wonky >> dependent on whatever the writers need. >> Joe Danger pointing out that means Iron Man making Hulkbuster is evil. Yeah, sure is, man. That's evil. He shouldn't have done that. That's wrong. Cuz yeah, Jean's conclusion from this is that people are monsters and you shouldn't trust them any more than they trust you. And then Gene makes a ninja stab Spider-Man through himself. >> Yeah, that's another one. But he didn't show this fight shouldn't happen cuz he could have just webbed them all at the >> show. So it's all good. >> Yeah. >> Well, the the the hand they have four stomachs so it's he can uh he just [laughter] go right through. He's got he's got some spares. I I honestly think that's another example though cuz uh when he gets stabbed, another ninja kicks him >> so that he like falls back into the wall. The guy with the the sword in his chest or belly, whatever, and he pulls it out and then goes to hit Spider-Man again as if to imply like, well, he's fine. And it's like, no, he's mind controlled. So, she's just forcing him to do this [ __ ] And then when he's when he's back, >> how horrifying. He'll have bled for a good what 15 minutes or so from the belly. Who knows if he's alive or not. This is what I mean by like there's no corpse. It's like you guys [laughter] What do you mean? >> You don't show him toppling over and dead and the life leaving his eyes. Then it's okay. >> I have to be personally invited to the funeral to count. >> Well, how could she have known? >> So, um [clears throat] Mhm. So Frank uh Frank calls Spider-Man, tells him the shock wave is expanding and he needs to do something about Jean. But uh you know while that's happening, hand kick the [ __ ] out of him, destroys web shooters. They destroy them one after to the other, which is pretty funny. Uh and so Peter takes off his mask and he catches his breath. He's badly beaten and inside the cell, Gene has trapped Meza and is slowly sending shards of glass towards his face. Um and and she says, "My sister died in this room surrounded by these men and her only crime was being special. Just like you, just like me, people like us don't get to live a normal life. We don't get to have friends or family. Those people are gone. That life >> is over." >> Mass murder destroying a city and then turns around and says, "You just hate me because I'm special." >> No, no, no, no. >> That's the only reason. There could be no other explanation. And then uh while she's saying that, Peter recalls the memories from the John Watts films that everybody hates. Um and so and so then Jean continues, "Why don't you just be honest with yourself? Are you Peter Parker or are you Spider-Man?" It's like, "Oh, that's weird. Why are you doing this dichotomy, Miss Gan? >> We care about >> Why is the reached into your brain and mind controlled your brain to exposite the theme of this movie?" Anyway, >> this is a really just it's it's not even a theme that's like explored at all really. Like, are you Peter Parker or Spider-Man? It just doesn't it just doesn't really ever come up ever in any way. >> No, but you quickly learn that whatever the audience is told, even the most explicit and simplistic without support or detail way, it's like, "Wow, the movie was definitely about that and it meant a lot." It's like, did it? >> You're punished by being less explicit. >> Yeah. >> Punished hard. Like the John was movies. Anyway, Peter removes his inhibitor chip and drops it. He takes a deep breath. His eyes turn black and he declares, "I'm both." And so now he's got all >> I am all the spiders. >> All [laughter] the spiders, he says, >> "Bro, and he does. He's got all the spider spider powers. His his senses are greatly heightened. His strength is super duper superior. And he has his organic webs, which are crazy. And he effortlessly takes >> sword proof or something." >> Yeah. Like now I'm not sure what the power levels look like for Spider-Man. He's He's way more powerful. Way more powerful. And he could already stop Winter Soldiers punch just effortlessly. >> He's already very powerful. But we need more. >> He's just like uh he's just like Jean. He had all the power inside of him the whole time. Needs to let it out. >> Yes. And then so [laughter] so uh Peter he he smashes into the cell and he begs Jyn to stop erroneously stating you're not a murderer Jean. >> Well um >> play back the footage. >> So yeah. And then while that's happening, Frank goes to a nearby rooftop and sets up a sniper rifle to take aim at Jean. >> Yes. And then [ __ ] >> generic killing Meza won't bring back Sarah. By the way, that should almost be like a a banned like line. >> Killing X bring Y back. It's like, yeah, >> I'm I'm aware that necromancy is not part of his plan. That was never my goal, Idiot. However, >> it will make me feel a lot better and it will be justice. >> Sending that person to jail for that crime they committed won't undo the crime. It's like, "Yeah, >> it won't. I guess [laughter] >> and then um yeah, so after saying that, Jean freezes Peter in place and says, "Don't be so sure I can't get into your mind. I'm a lot more powerful since last I tried." [laughter] >> Good god. >> Double. It really feels like the writers were like, "So, we had her not able to get in, but then we had her super powerful and she can." That makes sense. Like, oh, so no, but she hasn't for the past like 10 minutes. Like, oh, >> so what do we do? It's like, uh, just say now. >> Yeah. Why didn't it phrase him? Why didn't he get phrased? >> This is It's all so [ __ ] wonky, but So, they were just like, "Just write it so that she says it. It's now." Now, don't be so sure it's happening in this moment. Okay. Yeah, that'll do. [ __ ] it. But >> she's so rapey. >> A little bit. Yeah, she loves getting in them. >> A little bit. A lot. >> A little bit. >> Loves getting in them. >> She considers rape hero. >> We I figure we'll just run through through this scene completely and then we can loop back around and break through uh break it down. So Peter Peter says to Gene, "Go ahead." And so she transports herself inside Peter's mind and it goes back to that scene that we briefly saw before where May, you know, was talking to Peter shortly after discovering that he was Spider-Man. And I'll just, you know, this is what she says. Basically, Jean plants herself where Peter is. So she gets to sort of lop as uh as having experienced this memory. And so May says, um, you know, you think you don't have to listen to me now that you have powers. You know, this whole thing can get really scary. things can change very quickly in ways we can't even imagine right now. And um Jean says that she knows and May says I don't think you do know. You're a really special person. And I would hope that would always make you feel great about yourself. But I know sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you'll be really lonely and sometimes because you're special, people can do dark, monstrous things to you. But this is what I want you to know. You're beautiful. And the people who love you, we love you. Not [laughter] because you're special, but because you're you. I want you to remember that even when it feels like you're totally alone, that's your deepest responsibility. Never forget that no matter how powerful you become. And then May hugs Jean and she cries. >> Why would this make any difference to Jean? >> You're pretty. >> Why would this make any difference to Gene at all? Why? After everything we've seen her do subconscious telling her this, >> all she needed was a nice lady to say, "Look, I see you. I see you. All right. >> She tells her she's beautiful and special. >> Yeah. And that's your deepest responsibility is to remember how awesome you are. That is your deepest responsibility. >> If we're supposed to take in a really quick and broad way that homecoming is like use your power responsibly in the sense of get into the like battles and help people where you have the capacity to make the situation better. Don't do it for glory and don't do it in such a way that you make things worse. If Far From Home is supposed to be, you're not supposed to judge yourself against like other, you know, larger than life characters in the universe like an Iron Man, like because not even they can hold themselves up to it. You should only be comparing yourself with yourself. Like do what you can when you can, as you can. Don't feel like insecure about your abilities for that reason, whatever. Third one, um you're supposed to, you know, commit to the good decisions even if they ultimately have bad consequences because they were good in in principle. Then this one is never forget right all of those are responsibility related but never forget that you are beautiful and people love you for you and not because you're special but but for you and you that is the fundamental most important thing. You're beautiful and that people love you. >> Beautiful. >> It just feels so weird to me. >> What people whose people >> I I she kill she kills and rapes everybody. What the [ __ ] are we doing? >> [laughter] >> Yeah, it's a it's it's just uh I just want to sit down with the director. Actually, I I don't want to get anywhere near him and be like, "Do you not understand what you've done? How do you not know what you've done? Why did you like you seem to went you seem to have unnecessarily went out of your way to portray her as the most evil, stupid character imaginable? You didn't have to, but you did. You chose to do this." >> And then the moral of the story is, look, man, you're awesome, okay? And that is that is your greatest responsibility is to never forget how awesome you are. >> By the way, all of the dialogue is incredibly clunky. That is that is some clunk dialogue. >> When you actually like write it down and read it, it's like, dude, this is uh these are some long sentences. These are some really repetitive structures. None of the none of the language is very interesting at all. This is just clunky as [ __ ] This feels like a first draft. that the entire theme of the movie is basically just some kind of fortune cookie crab. It's just remember how special you are today. >> Why would it mean anything to Jean? I just don't get it. Like why would it stop it from killing people? >> The only thing we had in her backstory from that flashback is that there's that one mention of their mother who let them go for the quite sane and sensible reason that they are psychopathic mind rapists. That's kind of the only thing you've got for her backtory in terms of like, oh, maybe she's missing some kind of maternal figure or the reassurance of a loving family. It's not enough issues. >> Yeah, mommy is still not enough. There's not clearly enough mommy issues. Like, she needs more mommy issues for this to work and she doesn't have them. >> I just want to say though, if Peter had come from a really bad upbringing and the memory was just an abusive parent beating him, she would have just what? Become like a super villain. >> More of a super villain. Like is is she just extremely lucky that the exact person that needs to speak to her was able to be focused into that moment and said what she needed to say. >> I literally cannot comprehend what could like how much worse she could possibly get. [laughter] >> And if this what is what is the implication that Peter Parker we're doing the you're one bad day away from being Jean Gray. >> I don't buy that. >> I do not dude. Even the Joker would be like, "What? What are you doing? What are you doing with them?" [laughter] >> Cuz that's the only thing that you could say tethers them together. Oh, they're both special and they need to know that they're awesome for how spe but it's not because they're special, but that's why you know you're great and that's what tethers them together and that's the only connection between your protagonist and antagonist in this movie. Um, by implication that means that Peter, you know, Gene is the dark shadow reflection of Peter. If Peter, if May wasn't so good, he would have turned into a psycho. >> I see. >> I don't buy that. I don't believe that. >> No. >> Um, and yeah, I'm tired of stories that keep doing this. You're awesome. You don't need to change. You're all good. It's like, I don't know, man. >> Pretty bored of this. >> Does this break the record? Especially when you're Spiderman. >> Does this break the record? Because we're going to get to it obviously, but just out of curiosity. Does this break the record for most bailed out like horrible person in history of media? >> Uh, I think so because Wander's pretty close, >> but at least say, "Oh, dark magic bullshit." In this case, you're just dealing with a totally cogent, coherent individual who just decided to be a psycho >> and uh and essentially is is bailed out completely. >> And with Wanda, you can at least argue that she has been through some [ __ ] >> Yeah, she does. She also kill herself at the end. >> Uh, yes. So, she So, there is something about she makes the sacrifice, you know, in some way, shape, or form. It's funny cuz people are saying Jinx. It's like, yeah, but Jinx is like deeply [ __ ] like mentally ill and traumatized. >> Jean Gray wishes she was Jinx. >> I was going to say Jean Gray is not mentally ill. That's the thing. She's very cogent. She knows what she's doing. >> Yeah, she's just Yeah, she's just >> She knows what's up. Like whereas again with these other characters which by the way it's not it's it doesn't absor Arcane season two we have to because that [ __ ] me. >> No that's not exist never happened >> does not exist. This does not exist. >> Yeah but uh this this one's pretty bad. Uh though I I will say it is it is really what what's the what is the last male villain character that you can think of this happening to >> just as a sort of cuz it feels like it keeps happening to the women antagonist characters of recent things >> who jumps out as like a male villain that is horrible that gets absolved hardcore at the end of the story line no consequences >> is the part about the power was inside of you all along and there's something wrong with you. Does that count as part of it? >> Does Kylo count? >> Uh, >> but I don't think he counts because he does and he doesn't get a ghost. >> No. [laughter] >> And he doesn't get a force ghost either that we aware of, right? >> Uh, people are saying Sentry, which is kind of an interesting one, but the problem with that is that Sentry appears to be two alternate personas. >> Like there's Bob and then there's the evil one. So, you've got like a hard divide between those two. So, I don't think it counts. Loki, no. Loki goes Loki goes on the big ark. He goes on the ark. They make him go on the ark to try and dies. He dies as a consequence of it. >> Loki was recognized as a legitimate villain for a while. >> There's that, too. Yeah, they never treated him as if he wasn't a villain. >> Um, Killilmonger. Hm. That might that might be >> that might actually be the most recent one. And that was nearly 10 years ago, lads. That was 2018. also dies at the end, right? But I guess it's still he's like he'sing his death. It's very good thing. >> Tragic rather than good job we put an end to that evil scheme that you were doing that. >> I want to be clear about the difference. Like Loki's death is tragic, but Loki's death is in favor of defending his brother while [ __ ] kill Monga dies trying to kill the hero. >> Yeah. Trying to kill trying to stop him from killing everybody, killing everyone. Um The the point the point is is that it feels like this is a weird I I I mean I as far as I'm concerned I consider this to be Marvel failing its uh its female characters. That's how I feel about those. >> I feel that they are failing these characters. I liked before they ruined her. I am totally on board with being in a position where I can get behind, you know, like Gan Gray as a character, but unfortunately you've laid down a foundation that makes it basically impossible. And it feels like and it's just I don't what are you guys doing? like why can't you write these characters? Why are you incapable of doing it? What is wrong with you? >> They they have they already have these like a complete lack of talent and skill when it comes to character. But when I feel like, you know, like the woman aspect comes over it, it's just like it's an it's an extra layer of difficulty over something they already cannot do. That just is a force multiplier for bad quality. There's something about it where it completely blinds them and they just can't do it. We've got to do the the the power comes from inside. There's nothing wrong with you. Trauma justifies anything that you do. You're going to be able to get away. >> I'm so glad you brought that up. Zemo goes back to jail. >> Yep. >> He goes back to jail. That's the point. Cuz obviously we're getting ahead of ourselves. >> He tried to kill himself. >> Not one. Holy [ __ ] W Jean goes free. She flees from from justice. She flees out into the world. >> Doesn't just I mean, we're ahead. Yeah. She doesn't just flee. She She's facilitated by the heroes and the film >> by Spider-Man and and the Punisher. agrees with >> the Punisher helps facilitate her escape. >> They all think she's great. >> I mean, we're close to summarizing that, right? >> Like an example what we're talking about. Yes, we are. We're pretty close. So, maybe it's worth just getting through that cuz uh yeah, Peter sits down next to Jean and she's crying and Peter says, "I'm sorry about your sister." Jean says, "I'm sorry about your aunt." And Peter says, "Just because we've lost someone doesn't mean we have to do this alone. We can't. Trust me, I've been trying. It doesn't work. And Jean says, "I have no one." And Peter replies, "You have me." >> Jesus. >> Peter's hide goes off and he sees and hears Frank fire his [ __ ] rifle. And so Peter grabs Jean and takes the bullet for her. >> Oh, he did kill himself. Okay. All right. Well, all right. Hey. Okay. >> Very clear here. Um, this bullet needed to be fired because that field was spreading and it was already killing. I don't care what [ __ ] session they were having. Frank was right to pull that trigger in every way you can imagine. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Peter was wrong to take the bullet. >> Absolutely. >> But again, if we're factoring in the No Way Home Peter, I guess it's just he needs to save everyone. >> Does Peter see it? Because >> I don't think it's out of character for Peter >> to take the bullet. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> No, but I'm saying it was the incorrect decision when it comes to dealing with the imminent problem of the force. The force field breaks because of this, but like it's not because he took a bullet. It's because Gan finally decided that she wants to How long would they have sat there in their minds chatting about their problems while the force field was expanding? Yeah. >> You know, and Peter was doing nothing to put an end to it. Um, >> so yeah, >> my question was just like a logistical one like would he be able to do that in terms of like because he couldn't the the hearing you can't hear the bullet because the bullet's going to hit before the sound gets there. >> He does hear it though. He does hear it. So you're right because the bullet would move faster than the sound. Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah, the bullet would hit and then it hear the sound. So >> his spidey stance did it. Okay, >> good. >> No, I think that's a fair question. I have no idea physics-wise what we're looking at for numbers there for what he'd have to do. >> I think you're probably right. >> The amount of time. >> Fair point. Fair point. >> And then Frank, he's horrified that he he shot uh he shot Peter. He's so horrified. And um and Peter begs Jean to run away as people will be looking for her. >> I wonder why. >> I'm watching Spider-Man, a character that I once liked quite a bit. just like laying there on the ground justice. >> Escape free goblin. Get away before they catch you. >> Get away from or I mean New York. >> Go run run run run go electro. Get away from here. [laughter] >> Don't let them capture. >> And then starts doing some mental floopery. Um, which I've seen people praise because it seems like she's breathing for him when he ends up in hospital, which yeah, he go Frank rushes Spider-Man to hospital. >> Why? >> No, it's great detail. She's amazing cuz she's helping him breathe, never mind all the people that she killed, >> it is uh Yeah, I mean, and before we even get into the like again the logistics of how is she even able to escape? Um, how is like Frank able to get why is Frank not being arrested constantly? >> How is Spider-Man >> does Meza now know that Spider-Man is Peter Parker? Cuz he was in the room. He took his mask off and they were talking about him and Gian said Peter >> um the rooms tethered to the to the chair. >> Remember all the people that were in that room and that building have all just been released. So they're all getting there before Punisher is. >> That's right. And they're all hostile. >> Yeah. >> And she's got to focus on keeping Peter alive. So none of this makes any [ __ ] sense. >> Her powers are so good that she can floop them and make sure that Punisher can get there before anybody else. And also fl breathe for Peter, >> but Punisher would have to like get a he'd have to find a boat. >> Yeah, he would across the water. >> And how is he going to get there when there's all the crash cars? Traffic would have ground to a halt. It would be very hard to get there. He'd have to run. That would take him. >> You'd have to get an armored car with a minigun to crash through all of them in order to get >> No, you're right. There's no way. There's no way that Punisher can be the first one to get there. Unless Jin continues to do more mind floompery on innocent people to prevent all of them from getting there first. >> But sure, we'll go a handwave of a plot to be like, "Yeah, but Punisher got Spider-Man to a to a hospital on the mainland." And not only did Mezzer escape, but so did Gan. They they got away. No one got >> good. And the news exposits the people of New York are rallying behind his recovery, which makes you wonder, what do the people of New York know? Do they know that the person who created the shock wave was aided and emedded by Spider-Man >> and punish >> the person who was responsible for it, for the tank, for all of that and possibly killing their loved ones that Spider-Man helped her get away. What have they all be Jonah Jameson right now? They should be Spider-Man. >> No, they don't matter. >> No, like seriously guys, he's a Venice. He needs >> and only matter as a prop so that this movie can go THE YOU MESS WITH HIM, YOU MESS WITH ALL OF US. This to me feels like it was made for Twitter. Look, it's the New York. They love Spider-Man. Look at him. Even though he doesn't really appear to have much of a relationship with the regular people. He only I mean he doesn't save that many people in this movie like from uh from and and he fails the he fails the oldman >> who dies. So I don't know we don't >> it's the bus and that kid >> the one the kid he saves a couple of people in the facility and then the bus otherwise he doesn't really save anybody. >> The only time civilians appear or factor in into this movie is when they're like killed by a gene. [laughter] They just >> I'm pretty >> It's You know what's really awkward? I'm pretty sure that the TASM movies dedicate a greater amount of screen time to that version of Peter saving like innocent people from peril. It's It's become increasingly more of a problem with these movies is that they don't show heroes saving people to the point that I'm pretty sure it >> I'm pretty because TAM has the whole sequence on the on the on the bridge. Um Tasm 2 has uh has the opening sequence with Rhino where he's saving people. Uh and and also the part where Electro starting in Time Square and he saves people. Obviously, we don't need to talk about how the Remy movies have massive dedicated sequences that are just saving innocent people cuz it does it all the time. It's something that that would used to happen a lot more in these movies. But now they know that they need to put it in to pay lip service to that as a point, but they're more interested in heroes fighting villains directly, like combat. That's what they're interested in. The montage at the beginning shows him doing it a few times. >> And then yeah, the people Spider-Man, the people of New York, they're rallying behind Spider-Man. Even though you don't actually see Spider-Man doing that much, helping people except for in a few instances in the first action scene and that's it. But they love him. You mess with him, you mess with all of us, you know? It's just funny. >> The movies are sold on it feels the same >> like pitting Spider-Man against a grander villain or heroes >> or against Yeah, exactly. Like I don't know. It's just it reminds me of how in Thunderbolts they just have that little bit where they save a few civilians and it's like see they're doing the hero thing that you guys want. They're just helping a handful of people there. Cuz I mean it's the same in it's the same in like cuz it's the same problem that happens in a lot of you know the city is fully evacuated. We don't have to worry about any civilians getting caught in the crossfire. Meanwhile, the whole thing in Avengers is yeah they're fighting this army but they have to deal with the civilians that are in the city that couldn't escape. And so you have to mix up them fighting aliens while also saving people. >> Um but we don't do that now. They just have it, oh yeah, he saves like one kid or something and then the rest of the movie is him just punching people. >> Mhm. And saving the the person who is terrorizing those civilians. >> Yes. Exactly. >> The only thing is >> she escapes justice. She gets away. She get she gets away. >> I don't know. I mean, it reminds me of how in Superman in the last sequence in Metropolis, Superman only saves one person. And then after that, the city is empty, so he doesn't have to worry about it. And he can they can just fight and punch and it's all good. >> It's just Yeah. A lot of these movies aren't interested in having the hero save people [clears throat] because they obviously find it boring. I think >> you you like stepped on a n cuz someone said don't be dishonest and revisionist for the Tasm 2 opening because he lets people die. There are mistakes made in the Tasm films. I think we've been pretty clear about saying >> Yeah, I don't like them either. >> Talking about dedication of scenes. What are they what are the scenes for? What are the scenes achieving? And like there are TAM has a lot of civilian saving scenes. >> In Tasm, he's [ __ ] around doing jokes with Rhino while he plows through these cars. >> Yeah. Like Yeah, I agree. Those movies aren't good. I'm just saying that even in the bad movies, there was still more screen time that was dedicated to heroes saving people rather than just punching people. So, just to be clear, I don't like those movies. I think they suck. But I don't know if I think that they suck as hard as this movie. I'm not sure. I haven't seen them in a while. Uh anyway, so um Oh, yeah. >> This movie just forgets that Peter Spider-Man is supposed to be a superhero or a hero of any kind. >> Super hero. >> Yeah. I I think by the way >> there >> on on like ranking them. Surely this is the worst morally like it's it's morally speaking the worst of >> morally. Yeah. Because you know all of the other ones are usually pretty tight on the important stuff. Um, yes, even even like Spider-Man 3, even Spider-Man 3, the stuff with Sandman and sort of the issues that could be spoken about there. It's not even coming close to anything you're doing you're doing here. But those movies do the normal thing, right? Where it's like, oh, I'm going to save uh I'm going to save uh Eddie, but then Eddie floops into the Venom thing and like, oh no, Eddie, and then he dies. It does the thing, right? It's like it does the normal thing where the villain dies by their own hand usually. It's it's it's what I've talked about before with usually Disney villain demises. >> They're instrumental in their own downfall. >> It's like when um Clayton chops all of the vines and hangs himself or you know Scar essentially because of his duplicitous nature gets the uh the hyenas against him. >> That's like falls into the lava from the you know the gargoyle. >> Yeah. Exactly. Because he went up there trying to kill him. And I think that you can see that DNA. You can see that certainly in the Spider-Man films, uh, the Remy ones, you know, uh, Green Goblin kills himself in his own glider. Doc O kind of gets the redemption for himself by sacrificing himself to destroy the machine. >> Eddie jumps in the [ __ ] Flume kills himself and Harry died. >> Yeah. The point here is that the hunchback the hunch the hunchback of Notradam ran so that >> Spider-Man 3. [laughter] Um, I do I do like those uh dichotoies though, right? Cuz like Goblin in trying to kill the hero killed himself. Dark Ark trying to undo his own damage, you know, has to give his life to undo it. It's like, oh. And then, uh, Eddie trying to get his power back. Yeah. >> Um, and then Harry saving the hero. That that's a really good set of four different reasons why you can take down a villain that was [ __ ] around. You know, >> this is kind of the point is that the kind of flaws that you would be dealing with in Spider-Man 3, it's like, dude, we've entered a new domain of how these movies fail in a way that like stuff like Spider-Man 3. >> It's like a whole new grading curve. >> What is the worst thing that Bully Maguire does? >> The worst thing [laughter] that Bully Magguire does is um Whoa. It probably is that he tries to kill Sandman. >> I think he he put dirt in someone's eye, dude. >> I think that's the worst. I mean, well, I don't know. Did you see that dance? Oh my god. Are you Are you Are you Are you in traffic? Have you been stuck in traffic this entire stream? [clears throat] >> You're actually just because the the the sound the sounds the sound >> nearly killing Harry. He did throw a pumpkin bomb at Harry's face. That was probably >> Oh, yeah. He did throw. He did. He did. >> But again, he had symbiot. Well, and Harry tried to kill him. So, >> like even when possessed by like an evil creature, that's he doesn't even come close to the extent of bad. >> And they realize that that's that's bad. And he and even with that, he still tries to apologize for this. This is the problem is that like a lot of these scripts are actually starting to fail spectacularly on sort of your core narrative morality, which is like a really important part of these stories. tone is complicated, but you can more or less conclude on what like a movie's perception of its events are when you're watching like a Tarantino movie, right? Like if you're watching, you know, you're watching like Reservoir Dogs, there's like a tone that's pretty apparent of like these are all like bad guys, you know, like in terms of in so far as you're invested in the story, it is couched in the context of, yeah, but these are bad guys doing bad things. compared to again if you're watching the Lion King, it's like well I'm pretty sure the Lion King thinks Simba is a great guy and that Mufasa is a great guy and Scar is a bad guy cuz if it didn't feel that way it would get real weird and complicated at that point like sort of what you're meant to take away from the story. This is the n you know it's complicated. It is complicated dealing with this tone but in stuff like Spider-Man it kind of shouldn't be because of the kind of movie it's meant to be and the kind of audience that it's meant to be for. This is meant to be potentially like someone's like first proper movie that they've seen, right? You know, this is a movie that kids will be watching. So, like it's kind of important to try and nail that like your core sort of morality. And um it didn't. It just it it hasn't. >> But it's not even striving for anything massively complex either, which makes it even more damning. This is not a morally complicated movie, and moral complexity hasn't undermined it. Very simple immorality has undermined this film. Mhm. It's pretty crazy as we're about to see cuz uh Peter's in the hospital bed without his mask on and and Jean's doing the mental floopery breathing for him and Peter wakes up and uh and and Frank is there. He's in the room and he said he covered for Peter's identity. I don't really know what that means that they left his gone while he was getting surgery. >> Did everyone like sign NDAs? What is going on? >> So again, unless my mom is completely out of left field and wrong. I was asking her cuz I had I had a thought about this anyway, but it was like first of all, you're getting any [ __ ] on their face off cuz they need to breathe, especially if they're near death and they need intubation or whatever. Have you He's been shot in the heart. So, yeah, that's not happening. Secondly, like to protect ident in a surgical room to remove that mask. Like the the idea that be like, well, no, it's Spider-Man. It's like I what you'll have is a doctor say, "I don't give a [ __ ] I'm going to save his life. Like, what? What? I Who cares who this guy is? I'm saving him. >> So, the punishers in the [ __ ] room like mooing at the surgeons to not touch the mask is hilarious to me. >> I mean, again, it feels like this has got to be the Spider-Man 2 payoff. We're not going to tell anybody. That sort of thing, you know? We won't tell anybody. It's all good, man. But instead, it's like, no, no, no. I kept your mask on or something. And then when they left the room, I put the oxygen mask on you so that you could breathe. I just love that they didn't even try to tackle that. There's like you see literally no nurses in that entire like the entire >> I don't know maybe Jean did some mind control on them so that they did the work on it but it looked like the mask was on but it wasn't or something like that. [laughter] >> She it just covers for everything at this point. She's just mind controlling the whole world and they just do everything they're supposed to do. >> Yeah. Um and uh and and and you know, Frank says that Gene used their powers to keep him alive and that she's safe. And Frank starts crying and apologizes for what he did. >> Yep. Yep. As if as if it wasn't enough damage done to the Punisher. They have him cry and apologize when he should be mad. Sorry, but if we want to keep him the way he is, he's supposed to I'm I'm happy for him to be like, "Good that you're alive, but you're a stupid piece of [ __ ] You know that?" Like he'd just be so angry. He'd rip into him and I I'd almost even be relatively okay with the scene in isolation if he was doing that. But having him cry over having done what he did, which was absolutely the golden move. There was no better move even with every piece of extra context he has. >> Yes. >> You make him cry, go away, >> and apologize. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Peter. I shouldn't have tried to shoot Jade. You were white. >> No. No. No. Oh, no way. >> About the fact that Frank is crying and then Frank remarks that maybe he and Peter are friends. >> Um, which then brings us to the one laugh that this film got out of me, which is that Peter walks out the front door through the crowd of Spider-Man fans that have amassed at the hospital while Frank wearing Peter's mask pretends to be Spider-Man and goes while waving his hands in the air. Unfortunately, that did get a laugh out of me. >> There's a goofiness to it. There's a there's a visceral goofiness to it. >> Yeah, it makes sense to laugh at it. I just can't I can't get over the fact that >> his mooing is like the main characteristic. That's what it's become now. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> He even does it in that scene like for nobody's benefit. No one can [ __ ] hear him. >> And if anybody can hear him, then it breaks the actual >> him get in character. >> He Yeah, he doesn't [laughter] get in character. So yeah, >> I I um >> yeah, I I don't How does the world not know about Peter Parker? How is all this arranged? What are the logistics of him getting to the hospital, no doctors knowing where he is, him just walking out, Frank Castle not being arrested? It's all [ __ ] >> I I just don't like none of this makes they they just gave up. They just gave up and said we just we just want Peter to walk out >> and have him see that people love him. where there's a kid in the crowd that likes Spider-Man. Which, by the way, this is the trick you need to employ if you want people to like your movie, just put a kid dressed as whatever the superhero is in that movie. And then that like triggers uh almost like a Pavlovian like response of this is what it's all about. So, you can't say anything about this movie, even though I'm saying something about this movie on Twitter, and I've said a lot of things about this movie, but you're not allowed to say anything because there's a kid who's dressed like Spider-Man. It's a very It's just a very easy shortcut to make people like and defend your movie aggressively because this is what it's all about or something. Even though every >> kid raises the flag in Superman and then Hawkgirl looks at that and thinks, "Right, I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to go and commit a war crime." >> Yay. >> Superman. Yeah. >> Because that is the statement that that Superman makes. To solve foreign conflicts, American private military companies should unilaterally go in and execute heads of state. >> Oh, what a film. >> Yeah, Man of Tomorrow is coming soon. It's going to be great. It's going to it's going to be great and it's going to make so much money and it's not going to mark the end of this stupid universe that they tried to do. So, um, we're very nearly at the end. Thank God. Uh, so Peter Yeah. So, later that day, Peter's looking at a sunset. MJ is also looking at a sunset and Gene has taken a bus out of New York having successfully evaded justice. >> Yep. >> Nice. >> So, Peter goes to May's grave, but it's sunny now. It's not raining. And he lays some flowers there and says, "I've been thinking about what you said, and you'll be happy to know I've decided I'm not going to do this alone anymore." Ah, he's completed his arc. >> He's not going to do this alone anymore. the arc of realizing that he was wrong to uh to to try and put the safety of these people uh sort of above his own personal wants. His wants are so important. He's special and people love him for who he is and not his powers. So, I'm going to rope people in to this dangerous life that I lead. >> So, his arc in this movie was going from selfless to selfish. Good. Good. >> Yes. I mean, what was what was Jean's arc? He's like, you know, you're awesome, right? You know, you're [ __ ] you're beautiful, you're powerful, you're wonderful. >> And you know what? All that killing that killing that wasn't even killing, man. That was No, not really. People say that, but no, [laughter] >> which ugly people can kill. >> We got another call with Trapper Dewolf um asking for updates. Basically, the damage control situation is this. Meets is missing somehow, but Yolena is now finally helping the cops dig through all the stuff that Damage Control scrubbed. It's an ongoing investigation, but you know what? Peter needs to take a break. And hey, he he remembers uh DeWolf's kids names now cuz he forgot them before. See, he's more uh he's not as maladjusted. He's he's he's living life. And so he goes to the bodega to get more flowers. And he sees Ned sitting there and eating lunch. And Peter, he turns around to like leave, but he pauses. And then he turns around, approaches Ned, and introduces himself as Peter. And the pair do their secret handshake. And after a moment of reflection, Ned looks up and says, "Peter." And Peter smiles. And that's the end of the movie. >> And that's how that works. >> To be I just want to be clear before we describe all the issues with this. This to me is like the shriveled dead infected corpse that was my investment in this is slowly crawling to like maybe a a bottle of water to try and stay alive and then just someone comes along and [ __ ] two shots to the back of the head like this final like [laughter] oh there we go. Thanks. Done. Great. >> [laughter] >> Can I get some water? Bang. [laughter] >> Yeah. I don't know what I don't know what this means. I guess we'll find out in the sequel. >> The the handshake breaks the spell. >> I guess Zenaia didn't love him enough after all. >> No, I guess not. [laughter] >> Uh, so I've heard multiple things on this. Apparently, it's not it's not anything really. It's just that that he muscle memories the the handshake now knows that he's actually important. Maybe even get the fact that Spider-Man Peter cuz Peter Spider-Man and all the things from earlier when he says, "Oh my god, Spider-Man's name is Peter and blah blah blah." And so the idea is I am going to make my relationship again with Ned. He's going to become my my best friend again cuz uh I feel like it's not the right thing to do to leave him out. Which like I said, [ __ ] No Way Home's ending. So screw you. The other thing that people have said as a theory is um that that that Jean and this by the way I want to be clear several people have said this to me including Metal he's heard this theory cuz I'm not sure he liked this movie but the theory is that Jean has broken the spell. And of course, your first your first [clears throat] question is, I'm sorry, what do you mean she broke? Like, that doesn't make any [ __ ] And besides, if she did, wouldn't it then undo the point of the spell, which was to >> to save the world? What are [laughter] powers again? What the [ __ ] is she supposed to be? Some kind of like messiah? What? >> I don't know. But apparently, it's a it's a running theory for a lot of people who are fans of this movie that Jean, as a favor to him, broke the spell, at least on Ned. And I was just like, I don't I I don't know that. But [laughter] >> no, >> I would go with the muscle memory theory. >> No, of course. Of course. The point of the scene is that Peter will not be alone. People Peter will not protect these guys by staying away from him. People Peter will not engage in his [ __ ] his personal interests of these people just because they get hurt. No, he's going to reestablish the relationship with Ned. But the thing is like by that principle, Peter, should you not do it with MJ? Cuz she was she's is she not your friend? It doesn't have to be that you. And besides, how is that not gonna happen if you're you're gonna be Ned's best friend? He lives with her. >> If you're gonna be Ned's friend, Yeah. you're gonna be interacting with >> [ __ ] this ending. This is the most absolute confirmation that it completely undo. No, no way home's pointless now. >> Yeah, exactly. Which is I mean, that's just awesome. And also, just bear in mind, guys, this does essentially make it so the door is more or less closed on introducing other like new friends. It'll be a lot harder to incorporate them if you're still going to be doing stuff with Ned. Like, what does that look like? Ned and Harry, like MJ and Gwen and like Felicia and stuff all running at the same time. Like, you think they're going to do that? I doubt it. And if they do, it's going to probably be balanced very poorly. So, like the blank slate was offered and this film's like, "Nah." And yet it's being praised as a rejection of um of uh of John Watt stuff even though it >> to me was immensely more Spider-Man to >> remove yourself from the people that you love to protect them and even the like cuz they can be happy without me sort of thing. But I won't be happy without them. But that's the sacrifice I'm going to make to keep them safe. Like that is very Spider-Man to me compared to ah [ __ ] it, [ __ ] it. I like them though. [ __ ] it. Stalk them for 5 years and then just break the rule. was like, "Okay, then fine." >> Yeah. >> Like I said, and and the thing is I just want to really emphasize because a lot of people are like, "Yeah, but he cares about them. Wouldn't you?" Blah blah blah blah blah. Like the way you do this as a writer is you just force him into new connections. He can have another girlfriend. He can have another more best friends. Can people that he fights with as superheroes? Absolutely. It'll happen naturally. It's just that this was the life he left behind. This was the life that he was like, "Holy shit." It's the whole childhood thing, right? you move on from it. He's like, "Oh [ __ ] I could have reestablished it, but it would be selfish cuz I only ever get these people hurt." >> What was the point of them having the the blonde chick that he bumps into in the elevator and on the on the floor who like says hi to him and he ignores >> Yeah. It's not setting up anything for Gwen or Felicia. That's just nothing. It's just some random person. >> It's just like showing his choice that he's ignoring people and he's like, "Oh, I can't make any connections." He's like, "Well, like you had a [clears throat] >> you had a chick say hello to you and like smile at you." a lot of guys would kill for that and he was just like >> no I mean it's just you know I don't know and I think that it's just like yeah but you know I just want to continue with this I guess and it's like okay but like I don't know you know what as a creative you need to be making the hard choices even if it breaks the actor's heart or something of like actually moving on and moving on with your story >> you got to move on with your story you got a whole world out there and you put all of that on pause you put all of that on pause in terms of developing like Spider-Man's rogues gallery except for offscreen or developing new relationships or you know future plot threads to rehash and then undo the consequences of the previous movie while extracting all of the emotional potency from the work that was done in those movies while everybody shits on them. >> They think the caveat in this >> having your cake and eating it too. >> They think the caveat in this film is that she said like I'm not the same girl Peter and I don't love you. It's like, sure, but now you're going to be around and in her life. Like, what if she does break up with the other guy? What if you get to know her? Like, what? So, I guess >> like this film's own way of trying to be like, "Hey, we're going to undo some of the stuff from No Way Home, but not all of it. Not all of it. There's going to be consequences. It's like you've already set us on the road. This is it." >> Yeah. >> There be nothing left. And And I I don't consider it like a You know, he's he's still going to be in contact with MJ. still going to build a relationship with her while he's trying to build it with Ned. I'm like freezing. Where the are we really going to put Mary Jane Watson in where we still have Michelle Jones float around? >> Of course not. Of course not. You shouldn't even entertain. And if they do, they're not going to balance it. Well, they can't. It's just it's just kind of the nature of making these sorts of movies. You got like enough screen time to be building up all of these things while you've also got to be dealing with, you know, like whatever villains you're going to be doing or what other you know, Marvel characters come in. Like, nah, it's not. It'll be these two. This will be the core group. And anything you get for anybody else will be thin at best, if not at all. >> It's um it's unreal. You see the end of No Home. Sewing machine, empty apartment, no money, customuilt suit, no friends, no support. And out I go with my police scanner because I've heard a crime is taking place. Like, wow. That is we got everything you need. >> That's a [ __ ] amazing technology. Amazing. He's got thorough connections. He's got he's taken out a lot of his roads galleries systematically offscreen. He's got an AI assistant that can do everything for him. Uh and he's resetting his relationship with those characters. And the villain of his movie is not a Spider-Man villain. It's an X-Men vill an X-Men villain, an X-Men hero [laughter] >> is who ends up being the villain. >> Funny like, well, Dark Phoenix is kind of like, it's not Dark Phoenix, Jean. It's just Gene. >> It's not Dark Phoenix. It's just Gan. And as I understand it, she's a paragon. But you've decided to make her a villain in this movie, only for her to go on and be just unequivocally viewed and perceived in whatever the future looks like as a hero. You know it. You know that whatever they do next is not going to be about, oh, she's like morally gray. And she's not even morally gray. She's just evil in this movie. So, it's not like, ah, Jean Gray morally gray. Haha. He And also, I don't know. I I it does feel weird. I feel like I'm seeing the same thing with Halo where people like pretend like it's it feels like they're actually lying to people about like ah see you don't know you're like a tourist and then they say something that's inaccurate but the problem is that if you're not familiar with the source material you can't tell whether they're lying to you just kind of have to assume well I guess I don't know so maybe that's the truth but then when it's something like Halo it's like ah no you're lying you're deceiving me >> I can't believe in the remake they added the sentinels to the flood section to help you fight because I think you're so you know there's so bad they just needed to help the player. There's one like that in the original. You're like, man, you're just such a [ __ ] tourist. You just want to [ __ ] with for with no purpose, no integrity. >> It's, you know, actually the um >> the reset that we had considering, you know, Far From Home and what we're doing here in a way, it's kind of like what, you know, Disney has done with Star Wars where you have a new hopea du you have the rebellion fighting the empire and at the end of the trilogy, the rebellion defeats the empire. They win. and the good guys are victorious. And then once they do the sequel trilogy, we got to loop around completely to get right back to where we started and completely undo like the accomplishments of the, you know, of the trilogy. It's it's eerily similar. So, um, yeah, with that, uh, MCU's dead, abandon all hope, ye who enter, it's over. Um, I any It's It's funny because I mean, as you guys know, I basically ride off like every pretty much every superhero project at this point. Um, but there were a few things that like arose where it got a little bit more complicated in terms of how I felt about it. You might remember that with Deadpool I was like, "Oh, well, you know, there's kind of like other people and other production companies and stuff that are in it. Maybe that will help." Didn't [ __ ] help. Um, and then with something like this, it's like, "Well, it is a Sony production. It's like a collaboration with Marvel. Maybe that will help." Didn't help. Um, there's something fundamentally wrong with superhero movies as a genre right now in this decade. It's over. It's done. Everything's gone. They, you know, Darevil got ruined, Spider-Man got ruined, Guardians of the Galaxy got ruined by James Gun himself. Um, it's totally over. There is no hope that never expect any of these movies to be good. They will never fix the problems. There is no amount of changes or course correction or anything that they can ever do that will fix that. It's over. It's done. They can't make good movies anymore in the MCU. It's impossible. Same goes for DC. >> It's done. I agree. >> Totally [ __ ] >> In the last seven years, not a single Marvel project, whether it's a film or a TV show, has risen to the lofty threshold of a six out of 10. Not a single movie, not a single TV show. It's done. It's finished. It already was, but this was like a last potential hope. It was like the only character left I had any investment in that hadn't been ruined. And now he's it's over. It's done. >> Yeah, it sits [clears throat] at some sort of remove. And so you could think maybe the rut that's affected it. >> Everything else didn't quite make it as far as the Spider-Man franchise, but it very firmly has. >> Um, it will be studied maybe one day if if the kind of people likely to write the studies weren't the kind of people likely to write the movie. It's it's it's such a a rapid sudden decline. The the only thing they'll take away from this though is that, you know, that much talked about superhero fatigue isn't really entirely necessarily real cuz you can get loads and loads of people to watch these films. This is probably going to be the highest earning film of the year. Probably I would it's going to be Doomsday at this point would be my guess as well, but and Deadpool got a billion. Cost a lot of money, but got a billion. Um, so they'll make more of them. It's just whether or not the returns diminish because you the opinion on Deadpool soured reasonably quickly and it will be interesting to see with this one. >> It'll cons what we talked about which is that it'll consolidate around the most successful and profitable characters. You should expect less and less and less that you'll be getting movies on like obscure more obscure and more obscure in this case doesn't even mean that obscure anymore. um is going to get to the point where it's going to consolidate pretty hard probably around like Batman, Superman. Um I would honestly say that I don't think that X-Men will benefit much at all. Like I don't think that'll happen. I think that X-Men will come out and it will do surprisingly poorly. Probably better than a lot of other stuff has. But I think it'll be like Fantastic 4. Like oh [ __ ] that didn't work. It's like, yeah, I feel like there's a ceiling almost that like any superhero movie that's made that isn't Batman or Spider-Man has like a ceiling of about $500 million. Um, but there will be enough things that come around that manage to breach that. Um, that will mean that the delusion that making superhero movies is a good idea will never die. Um, I don't think that there will ever be an end to reliably having superhero movies come out. I just think that a lot of them will fail and then enough of them will succeed that they trudge forward. We've seen this before. We're seeing it right now with these live action remakes. Moana failed. That's not going to be the end of anything because the next one will come out and it'll make a billion dollars and then they'll go, "Shit, yeah, this is a good idea." And then they'll running out of things to remake. >> Well, right now that is being made right now. And I And that'll make a lot of money. That'll make money. That'll be successful. >> Moana, who [ __ ] cares if that failed. That's okay. And then something else they'll do. It won't work. And then they'll be like, "Oh [ __ ] should we rethink it?" and then the next one will make a lot of money and then they'll be fine. And that's the same thing that we're going to be seeing with superhero movies. Um, and and yeah, so it'll keep going and it will keep getting and it will keep failing and they won't fix the problems because they can't fix the problems. There is something endemic to how these movies are made that means that they're incapable of being good. I I don't know. I don't know what's happened. Um, and I suppose culture and structure of these corporations. I think it needs a it needs to be completely torn down. >> Yes. Maybe a better way to put it is I think that it it is exceptionally rare nowadays that a movie that costs over $und00 million is good. It's like once it gets to a level of complexity in terms of um production, it can't be good with very few exceptions like something like Project How Mary for instance, in terms of reliably finding stuff that's worthwhile, it's uh either costs a lot less than that or maybe it's animated and it costs more than that, but you can find it if it's animated. Uh, >> it's something about the culture and the structure of these companies. There's like a rot that that's like like deep deep at the core that infects everything. The entire process of these systems and how they interact just is just a breeding ground for mediocrity. >> Well, I wish it was a breeding ground for mediocrity. I guess more credit. I wish that the films were >> I wish we got a bunch of five out of tens where we could go, h, you know, wasn't very good, but there was >> boring and generic. I wish that they were boring and generic and had simple arcs and simple themes. I wish we could get to that point at least so that we could then move on to making stuff that's actually like interesting and cool. But now we're in a position where it's like, yeah, we can't even have these movies come out and not be entirely to the core dysfunctional. This film is to the core dysfunctional. Character, everybody's assassinated. Basically, everybody uh plot is absolute nonsense [ __ ] Stupid. Um world building is dire. Uh this is not a film that you can incorporate into the MCU effectively. And thematically, I mean, it's just kind of kind of immoral. Um, which is uh which is a crazy one to to uh to to actually achieve. Um, it used to be that bad films were boring in terms of the themes that they were going for. That used to be where we were and that they were kind of stupid on the plot and they weren't amazing on world building, but usually they got at least like the core character motivations right, albeit in a way that was kind of played out and dull. Now we're in a position where it's like, "Oh, yeah." And then in this movie, we just assassinate the [ __ ] out of the protagonist at everybody. Nobody makes it out unscathed. There's just no thought for how all of these, you know, plot threads and beats interconnect and spill out um in the sense that you can do stuff and pull it in together in a in a way that uh bolsters, but you can also have it as something of a contagion, which is essentially what I think Gene is. Gene is a contagion that will ruin the X-Men movie on top of any other problems, any other decisions that are made with with these movies. Like that will just be a lingering problem that sort of uh that sort of um >> just continues on. Same with all of these plot problems, right? I mean, you kind of see it when we talk about a lot of these Marvel movies. The decisions that are made in each of these movies start to spill out. That stupid Celestial poking out of the ground. uh She-Hulk breaching like the fourth wall and bending reality to her will. Time travel in uh Avengers Endgame, the TVA in Loki, like all of these [ __ ] every [ __ ] thing that happens in like Deadpool and Wolverine and how like you can just keep referring back. Oh, the scrolls in Secret Invasion. Um every single time it's just this stuff that leaks out and it just makes everything sicker. Um I mean it's essentially it's it's it's like an infection. Um, and yeah, I I just don't think that there's any, you know, it's just funny, right, that like when when Doomsday comes out and it's it's terrible because of course it's going to be it feels like everybody's going to be sort of aware of that and aware of what the issues are and aware of how it's clearly just this [ __ ] rush job desperate bid to try and get people back into this universe. But then as long as it comes around with the right kind of cinematography, the right kind of theme presumably uh or the right kind of color grading or the right kind of Spider-Man suit reverberates in the wind, then any of that sort of analysis of the story just goes out the window. It's uh it's it's it's part of what perpetuates the problems. I would say if everybody was consistent and essentially clear on like the criticisms of these things right out of the gate as they were coming out, it wouldn't perpetuate like this. But it perpetuates when it's like, "Oh, Thunderbolts was actually great. You should bring that guy back." Um, oh no, Shani was actually No, it was cool, man. Those fights were cool. You should get him back for Spider-Man. And then it's like, cool. Nothing gets fixed. It gets the problem persists and then everybody looks back and goes, "Wow, that was [ __ ] Oh, but this next one will be great." And then it just keeps going. the cycle continues forever. >> So yeah, it'll never get better. Be glad that you even got some good Marvel movies in the first place. It's a [ __ ] remarkable that that even happened. Go watch Avengers again. Go watch Iron Man. Uh, you know, just go find go back even further. Go watch like Batman Returns or something. You just got to go back uh and then and then you can find But otherwise, yeah, >> that's right. >> There you have it, folks. >> There you have it. >> No hope. Abandon all hope. It's over. >> Just find different things to just Yeah. Come back in 10 years. Maybe go >> go play video games or something. >> Go play Halo Cap. >> Go play Halo Cafe. Yes. Yes. [laughter] >> You got to you got to go back further there as well. >> Do it. >> Well, I mean that's an easy segue into being like, "Hey, guess what's happening next week?" EA EAB chat. We're going to be talking about Halo Campaign Evolved and uh everything that's wrong with that game as well as the conversation there because the conversation around that game is very frustrating but much smaller than Spider-Man because nobody cares about Halo anymore. >> It's a very small and insular community at this point because it's shed everybody. Do you guys see that? Um >> let me check the Steam numbers for that. >> 7,000 or something. I think the peak it got to was 20,000 on Steam. And I remember I saw people say, "Yeah, but that's the early access. Wait until it launches." And then it launched and it it only hit the peak that it had in early access. >> Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, it it was basically the same. The alltime peak for this game was 25,370 on Steam. >> That's the for Halo. >> I don't think that a lot of you listen, get on Grandpa Rags's lap. I'm going to tell you a story, okay? There was a time, and I can't accurately describe it because you had to [ __ ] be there, okay? Halo 3 like in particular. Now this happened with Halo. It happened with Halo 2. It happened with Halo 3 more than any any of them because it was just building up steam. Halo 3 was like a phenomenon that this was like you'd see ads for Halo on TV and you didn't get video game commercials on TV. This thing would move consoles. Like consoles were built around the idea that Halo was a franchise that you'd play. There were gajillions of people online back in the day to play this game multiplayer. like it like the the the the culture surrounding this this game and and the community around it and how people would play it and talk about it. It was just y'all had to be there. If you if you missed out then I mean you missed out and it's a shame but like holy [ __ ] to see >> to look at Halo and what it's become. >> I don't know man. I'm just like I'm just at the point where I'm just like smile because it happened. Well, yeah, this feels like a conversation we need that needs to be had because it's been had we'll talk about it next week, but it's it feels like it's relevant to what's been going on with, you know, Marvel of like, oh, the fans are so ungrateful. What if it were to end because of what you you know, because of your dissatisfaction, like that's good. Things should end. Things need to end. When they get bad in particular, they need to end. Even when they're good, they they could stand to end. I'm okay with things ending. >> Chief gets back in the cryopod. Sam goes into his house. The story's over. Enjoy it. Savor it for what it is. Go back and rewatch it. It's okay for stories to end. They should just [ __ ] let it go, man. >> Let it end. But no, it won't. We need Halo forever. Which means even though this game is terrible and it's not going to do well, it will have no consequences. Um, there will be no consequences. Uh, Halo, sorry. Halo Studios, formerly 343 Industries, will continue to exist and operate in the exact same way that it always has. It will deliver a new Halo game in 5 to 10 years that is terrible. >> It will continue to be this insane corporate money sync. It will continue to pump out terrible games. It will just keep going on and it won't die. >> It just won't. It'll just refuse exist in a state of bizarre undeath that I wouldn't wish upon >> well kind of like a a corpse reanimated by the flood as what Halo has become. >> There were I know we'll talk about it but there were definitely some lines when I was uh when I was playing the Halo you know the campaign evolved and stuff and I was like man that's a that that's certainly a meta bit of commentary about things being dead and reclaimed and living. Oh jeez, >> there's a lot to talk about. >> That's an >> At least we'll be able to talk about a game. Yeah, cuz I mean I I will just like the like with this movie, this isn't canon. [ __ ] off. No, this just this didn't happen. This is a joke movie that didn't actually happen. It's a strange fever dream. Um it's not real. Um very easy to forget that this will exist. It it made me angry at the time for reasons that we've elaborated on in depth. I hate it, but I'll forget about it. And maybe that's the nicest thing I could say about it is that it will be forgotten. Not for a while though. People will be singing its praises for a bit until they forget about it and the cycle will begin a new. >> There's already a few posts about how ridiculous the movie is. So, you know, it'll take its time, but it'll get there. Um, >> yes. I think uh this film can't survive um it can't survive the the ravages of time. I think a question might need to be asked at some point cuz this cycle just keeps happening. Uh maybe people need to reconcile is a good movie one that you enjoy at first and then don't enjoy ever again and is that a standard you're just comfortable with because that seems to be it at this point. >> And if you are then welcome to the world that was created as a consequence of that. >> Yeah. reminds me of um >> the discussion on the uh Halo, you know, in the same sense that they create films to make you explode in day one, but they don't last. The effort to make everyone pre-order an early player game almost like splinters their initial numbers and the blast that you get two get the most juice out of that first week because after that, this [ __ ] is gone. I mean, I I'll I'll probably end up streaming. doesn't like Gears of War eay I think it's October >> that's October yeah >> so like that'll be one of those games where I'm like well you know I've enjoyed Gears of War in the past you know to different degrees I'll check that out probably stream it will that game have any sort of staying power I guess we'll see >> I don't know because this spills out into games as well it's relevant Spider-Man 2 the game you might recall people were very positive about that right at the start now listen to the way people talk about that game >> now look at the things that they say about like Insomniac broadly and their uh their their superhero stuff. Um this this this happens in so many it's it's essentially buying into kind of like a hype cycle, you know, the cycle you get hyped and it would be so lame if something that you got so hyped for ended up being bad. Um and but it's like yeah, but once enough time has passed and you've extracted all of those good feelings from it, then reality can start to set in and it's like yeah, okay. But then if the cycle repeats, it's just then what what are you left with? You're left with like a graveyard of crap movies, crap games that you don't like anymore, that you don't really want to play or watch again. You don't have any art that you can come back to and enjoy, which is crazy. I mean, I mean, talking about the Halo remake is playing through the first Halo, you know, just getting ready, refreshing myself, getting it fresh in my mind. Was like, man, this is is a really good game. I really like that. You breeze through that game because it's just really great, man. Playing them side by side. You really You're really reminded of that that quality dip. Some things are just not You can't uh you can't repeat them. You can't just like, "Oh, well, I'll formulate them in in my lab. I will make a copy of Halo and it will be very good because we're just copying a great game." Like, man, y'all can't even copy greatness. That's how bad you are. Well, [clears throat] um, actually don't want to spend any longer than we need to be because I'm we still actually I'm solved this problem. It's still laggy. It's still jumpy. And throughout that whole thing, it would just cuts every once in a while and people saying stuff probably on me as well. But hopefully it was coherent enough that chat seemed to >> find it okay. So, apologies for that. Not much I can do to fix it cuz uh this will be end up being the VOD anyway cuz I couldn't even hit record locally because of what's going on. Hopefully, I can fix whatever's wrong with this PC as soon as possible. Um, but you know, before we head out though, uh, Nutsa, what are you up to? What are you doing? How you doing? What's up? >> Currently, I'm almost dozing off to you guys's lullabi, I guess. Um, but I what I've been up to, I'm making a new video about female characters. Oo, hate them. Um, it's going to come out very soon. Hopefully, >> but Jean Gary has ruined it for now. You have to have a whole section for >> Oh, [ __ ] No, I'm not. >> Does Jean Gray hate Spartans? >> I'm not opening that can of worms. Not yet. Goodness gracious. That That needs an entire video of its own. But yeah. Um and I'm almost at 100K, so I'm looking forward to >> that. First 100K is the hardest. >> Yeah, I probably I don't know. I have It's my first, but yeah, that's that's all I have really. Thanks for having me. >> Of course. >> Thanks for being on. >> No problem. >> Thanks for joining us. Well, fellas, what have you all got coming up? >> Um, I'll I might do another um last Halo stream next week. Uh, I might do like co-op with someone like a friend of mine and we might just go through and just do another one. Uh, maybe we'll collect skulls. Maybe we'll just p around. But it'll just be like us chatting about it. I, you know, maybe I'll get one, two people. I'm not sure though. But apart from that, I just got some videos that I'm working on in the background. They'll be out in not too long. Um, you know, I'm just chiseling away at it. I got time to do it and they'll be back. So, yeah. I mean, I've done some live streams for if you haven't seen them. I did I've done the I've been streaming Halo. I streamed the original. I played the remake through on Heroic, then on Legendary, streamed all of it. Fun stuff. Uh I would I I mean obviously I recommend you check them out. But you guys have a lot of Halo stream content to look through. So yeah, add it to the pile. I bet all of our experiences are unique and interesting. I know. I'm starting to go through, you know, peoples and take a look at them. I have loads of [ __ ] So, Odyssey part two probably tomorrow part three sometime in the week or at the weekend the video on this at some point maybe next weekend or the one after that. At some point in between all of that I have to finish all of original Halo and all of Halo remake and get over this cold that I have to do all of that. so busy. I'm basically going to be constantly outputting for the next two weeks and then I'm going to sleep for a month. >> Sweet. >> Nice. >> I'm just working. >> Yeah. >> As always, someone asked in chat, is there a way to view is there a way to watch the Fringy streams? Yeah, it's on his >> Yeah, there's a playlist on my channel. [laughter] just his channeling his channel and playlist lives. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I've played it uh maybe you'll get one more. Like I said, I've beaten on on legendary uh I guess technically last week and I'm tempted to do a sort of like um like the the South Park do you see of just showing you some of the things that I [laughter] like look at the things I've done. Maybe. I'm not sure yet. Um otherwise, I'm just working. Uh though I guess since the last episode my uh my new my new video came out. So if you haven't seen it e no >> Halo was an awful show part one [laughter] that came out uh that was that's that's out. So it's two hours long. It's talking about season one of that show and how I hate it. >> Halo's [ __ ] >> Part two is uh on its way. Uh and yeah, I'm just working in part uh on this uh on this uh EAP episode that we're going to be doing about Halo um next week. talking about the game, talking about the original. If you haven't played it, you should play the original uh Combat Evolved. It's really cool. >> Yes. Play all the original Halos. All the I mean, the first five are on the Master Chief Collection on uh on Steam. You can get them all bundled up. >> You haven't played them, you need to. >> Um you know, despite how Spider-Manish it feels right now, we truly are in the Halo arc uh heavily. Yes, let's say all you can find >> streams for for Halo been done by four out of five of the people here right now. Excessive lots of them with more on the way allegedly. And then yeah, >> who hasn't done it? Who who's missing out? >> Certainly. No wonder. >> Who knows? >> And after after campaign of Aldo, we'll be continuing with my legendary playthrough run of all the Bungee Halo games. Uh I'm not sure when, but at some point. H um >> do you foresee um out of curiosity, do you how do you think that the um the campaign evolved legendary stacks up to the rest of them? >> It's piss memory piss easy. Yeah, >> it's piss easy. Campaign evolved is incredibly easy. The only time when it gets annoying is the uh is the new prequel levels. Uh in particular, the last room on the first and the second level is horrible. The second level in particular is very annoying because there's like a way that you can play it that's essentially perfectly efficient, but you'll still get sabotaged hard because there's basically no >> basically know what? >> No, I thought it was me, but it's him. >> Fringy died. Fringy Fring is playing Discord on legendary and he hit the wall. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, he hit the wall of five elite and he >> said, >> "Yeah, we can hear you." >> Okay. I was just saying like on that on that last room on the second one when you've got like two cloaked elites with [ __ ] energy swords charging at you while you've got a whole bunch of brutes funneling out through the two doors on the side of you along with grunts and stuff. And the only cover that you've got in this space is two. >> Oh, I know that room. That room is horiz. >> Yeah. No, sorry. I But the point being that aside from those frustrations, campaign evolved is absolutely the easiest. It's easier than Halo 3 um on Legendary or Reach. Um I mean I mean it's easier than all of them, but the point being it's very easy. You can run past you can run past the encounters. >> To put it to put it lightly, uh I'd say this applies to myself too, but certainly to Fringy and Rags. They like the um the Coke bottles. You drop some Mentos in when it comes to Halo. And we've closed the caps until next week, so don't worry. It's going to explode all over the screen and den conversations are on the way. >> Lots needs to be said about Halo. Um but all I was saying was that yes, you've got uh you know, all the streams available, all the streams coming, but then you've also got a full episode on Halo next week and possibly the week after. Don't want to make any promises here, but there's just lots of Halo stuff for us to do. Wonder I wonder if there was uh people who made videos that are terrible. >> Wonder if someone did that >> talking about plasma swords and Sergeant Anderson. >> Yes. Uh and then on top of that every Friday and there are two of these available already is going to be the arc that we took through season 2 on EAB TV which have been beautifully edited by Mr. Fringolius here. So we've got loads of Halo in every format you could imagine. As was mentioned, you gota you got to grab a Halo the Halo show season. You can't watch the EAB TVs about season two until you remember how bad season one is by watching Fring's video on that. So do that, do the TVs, do the games, and then come back to the EAB episodes on it. If you haven't played Halo, you'll feel like you've played it at that point, maybe. So, you know, there's going to be it's going to be fun. Um, lots and lots of Halo. Uh, the House of Dragons got two more episodes left. Um, I should along with Ry be appearing with with Gary, Ryan, and Shad to talk about the end. We'll see how that goes. It's been a been a journey. It's been a thing. Um, and then yeah, I guess uh am I missing anything events wise? Oh, I guess the anniversary is really getting quite close. 20 days away. Um, so I don't know what else to say other than I'm doing prep for it and the for those who don't know August 22nd going to be, you know, about 26 hours hold the event probably. It's, uh, we do it every year and we'll invite a whole bunch of people. We'll have a whole bunch of wacky things happen more than likely. So, um, you know, it's we're on the way. There's so much work to be done. So many things to be done. Um, I if my PC wasn't [ __ ] I would want to say one other thing, but I I just don't I don't even want to mention it in case I can't even I can't even complete the project or make it at this point cuz I don't know what's going on. >> What? >> Really annoying. >> You know what it is, Fringy. You know, >> I know I know what you're talking about. >> You know what I'm talking about. [laughter] >> But, uh, I can get away with alluding to things and then chat easily telling what I'm alluding to. Um, I said it at the end of Friday Night Tits when my [ __ ] computer wasn't like melting. I said, you know, we're good stuff, but I've actually been interrupted by something that's kind of just set a fire in me. And uh I I I don't know. It's just something really recent. Something so recent that, you know, it's it's like it's like so recent like like recent in terms of days even you could say that I wanted to make a video on maybe >> smell it. >> But who knows? But I can't promise anything. Maybe nothing will happen. Who knows? It just it depends if I can solve this problem. As soon as we're done here, I'll be like restarting and updating and just doing things until this this horrible problem goes away. Um, so anyway, anything else you guys want to mention before we leave? >> No, I think I'm all I think I'm all set. I think I'm all right. I'm running on fumes. >> Okie dokie. Then I'll say goodbye while I can and I'll do my what I can to shut down this stream. So, bye everyone. See you later. Bye-bye.