District 2 Meeting Sep 9, 2026

the town. Oh, >> sorry, Lyn. I forgot to hit that before. >> That's okay. Uh, we uh we don't want to do something that cost the town more money and we didn't anticipate what those additional costs could be. Remaintenance of roads, additional students and school, um, water and sewer, although there is already water and sewer on the land. So the consultants have been working and they are going to be coming up with a zoning recommendation to the council we hope by January at the latest February. There are two meetings coming up at the Eric Carl Museum that the public is definitely invited to. One is a listening session and that's on the 22nd of September from 6:00 to 8 and then a design workshop two days later, same place, Eric Carl Museum from 5:30 to 8:30. You can go to both. You don't have to go to both, but we really encourage people who have strong feelings about what they like to see us encourage. One of the things that I think is most important to again remember here is we don't control the sale of the land. It could end up being so sold to a higher ed institution and that that can still be done even if we reszone the land. It will stay zoned or it will still be allowed and it will be nonprofit. The thing that I think people are concerned about are things like data centers and we've been very clear we don't want to see that. we'd have to zone differently for that. Uh we're concerned about what type of institution might go in there. We also want to make sure that there is serious preservation of the land that is very vulnerable. The land of Hampshire College has huge amounts of wet wetlands and there's really only about 200 acres in Ammerst that's actually buildable. So it's while Hampshire College is big, it actually has a lot of conservation land and the TR now I get it's one of the one of the conservation groups has also expressed interest in it. Um we really have no idea how this is going to end up. Again the trustees are in charge of the sale. Um this is a trend that is happening throughout Massachusetts and across the country particularly for smaller schools because of the decline in the birth rate um 18 years ago that has just now hit higher education and it's um and then the message that maybe you don't need to get a college degree but I don't agree with that one. Um so that's Hampshire College. Are there any questions on that one? because it's really kind of, you know, uh, Kitty, you need to unmute. There you go. >> Is there is there a way for the town to zone it so that housing has to be diverse and can't just be for one single age group? >> Oh, absolutely. Um, in fact, the kind of conversation the council has had is multiple different kinds of housing. Could be um senior housing. It could be 55 plus housing. It could be the kind of housing that we just opened up in North Ammerst. It could be um town houses. It anything uh is open at this point. The it the real important thing is to look at what the population trends really are over the next 20 years and see what kind of housing we really need. Now, the good news is we've had a housing study done uh and so we have that data. In addition to that, the MS Danahghue Institute continues to do the population data that's available. So, um, but there are some nuanced uh population issues that people need to keep mind of. For example, UMass Ammerst uh on the last two years each year has accepted 100 less graduate students because of loss of federal dollars. um not only because we're a blue state but just in general because of the administration and um we do have a we have a flat birth rate at this point uh and that has continued through COVID and past COVID and then in addition to that western Mass is losing population if we continue to lose across Massachusetts once the 2030 census is done we may lose another congressional seat and the only reason we kept the congressional seat that we might have lost in 2020 was because of the immigrant population increasing in the state. >> So when you say it could be this kind of housing and it could be that kind of housing um does the town get does do the zoning laws um regulate that? >> Yes. >> In your Okay. >> Yep. That's exactly I mean the zoning laws will regulate for instance how big a building lot needs to be or and you know the obviously the smaller a building lot needs to be you have greater density. Uh the maximum number I have heard which is almost a little frightening in my mind is 2,000. Uh I I can't imagine 2,000 um homes being built in that area but it's uh that would be you know multi-level kinds of things. But if you have some thoughts about the kinds of things you would like to see there, please go to the website. There's a special section where you can give feedback. Come to the sharetses or the meetings we're having on this. And know that the council has been working on this actually since probably within a week after Hampshire made the announcement. We've had executive sessions because we had to decide, frankly, whether we were going to be interested in purchasing any land. Um, >> and and just to follow up on that, if it was to be dedicated to student housing, is there a way that um the the town could benefit from um uh t could collect taxes on it unlike >> unlike uh whatever >> field? Fieldstone. Yeah. Uh, interesting you mentioned that because UMass Ammerst is actually in the process of talking about building some additional student housing mostly because they need to move students away from the older dorms while they renovate them or maybe replace them. uh and I know that there we uh there was a meeting held with UMass uh in the last two days where we made it very clear that this issue that has happened with Fieldstone where it's a public private partnership and bluntly the private partner owns the building. The university may own the land but the private partner owns the building and they are not paying taxes and that is unacceptable. And in fact in many other parts of the country when you have public private partnerships they do pay taxes. So there is precedent set and basically we've gone on notice to the university that we plan to pursue that. >> Good. >> Okay. Um other questions about Hampshire College? Yeah. Amber, did you have something you wanted to add? >> No. Charlie and I are just uh chatting in the chat. He's not able to come off mute, so we can we can follow up with him uh after the meeting. >> All right. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. So, um the next item on our agenda, we can come back to any of these at any time, too. Uh the next item on our agenda is um the solar bylaw, but in fact, it's called the energy bylaw. And I know I see some people on this call who have been very interested in this because you live up in um off of Shootsbury Road where it looked like we were going to be seeing a large solar installation. So the uh the state actually passed a a legislation about solar to try to encourage it. It did. It did does allow and it did allow the town of Ammerst to have its own bylaw. We have to at least meet the standards of the state. The way the bylaw is set up is that if the town if a solar developer comes to the town for a permit and we don't give them a permit within a year, the state rules. Okay. One of the things that I particularly have paid attention to and spent some time talking with various other people in our general area of this of the uh Shootsbury road uh etc. is we there are about 5% of Ammerst are on wells and on on septic systems. Most of those are in the northeast corner of Ammerst up and um the possibility of ever getting public water or sewer up into the Flat Hills and High Point and Shbury Road area is probably slim to none because it would take building a huge pump house etc etc. The bottom line is that when the we saw the first draft of the bylaw in the council during the first reading, they were basically saying that they the distance of solar and of best which is the um storage units didn't need to be as much as did not be have to be as far away if you were a public water source. And the argument that I've been making and I think successfully, we'll see how the vote goes, is that this this part of Ammer should be viewed as a public water source. We're all on this unbelievable underground water tables throughout this whole area. And one of the cases that I've been following is one in Texas where um they had a massive hail storm because they're in a hailtorm band, if you will. It damaged the solar. The chemicals within the solar leaked into the ground and contaminated people's wells making their drinking water and their wellwater actually completely not usable. And nobody wants to take responsibility. So, um I spent um again some more time yesterday uh with um Michelle Lee who is a specialist in geology and the whole issue of water and groundwater and she has now submitted additional changes that add to the ones that I've asked for. I've asked that we be treated as if we are a public water source so that the distance should be the same. Uh I've also asked that we add to the definition of uh water they add had a definition of heavy rain event and after that there would need to be examination. I said now wait a minute what about other weather events that could damage the actual solar and cause this kind of problem. And so I've submitted I changed the definition of that to include severe weather events which be would include tornadoes, hurricanes, uh hail and in fact um droughts which could cause ground fire. So um again um this will come before go for discussion tomorrow at 1:00. I will be at that meeting. And I encourage any of you uh that can and want to look into this to be at that meeting and make public comment. Um I'm also very concerned about the issue of abandonment of property and the fact that a lot of times these things are built then they're passed off to the next company and the next company they don't pass all the conditions of the permitting to the next company. And then the other thing I've asked for is that they do routine um inspections on a one to threeyear basis, not just when there's a severe weather event. That even if there's not a severe weather event, they really need to be doing inspections on a regular basis. The issue of abandonment is what happens when the company just kind of says we're done. all this is old and now there's not money to tear it down and I think that is a huge concern. The bylaw does create the condition that they must return it to its natural habitat or close to. So we'll it like the bylaw. I I read it many times now. Um, I'm hoping that the changes that I've submitted and also the changes that Michelle uh lab has submitted will be accepted by go I mean by CRC. It will then come back to the council. It may come back on the 14th. It's scheduled to come back on the 14th. If they don't include the changes I've asked for or that Michelle has asked for, then I have to turn them into motions and we have to do amendments on the floor in town council. So the practice in the past has been that a bylaw comes in for first read and then it goes back to the committee with any other changes and they try to make the changes in the committee so that we don't have to go through the laborious process of motion after motion to change this wording here, this wording here and this wording here. So, I'm, you know, looking at Renee who um along with Eric um really spearheaded the uh issue on the Shootsberry Road and um encourage I want to thank you for all the education that you've given me about this issue. Um I'm hoping that we come up with a bylaw that we can all live with. So, are there questions about that? You know, Lee, >> not a lawyer. Maybe this is a stupid question, but I worry about exactly what you were talking about at the end when when the equipment becomes obsolete, >> right? >> And the company decides it's bankrupt. >> Yeah. There's supposed to be an account set up in advance. >> That account is supposed to be adjusted um I can't remember now. I think every five years based on inflation. uh and that is what is supposed to happen. It the big issue is again sometimes the passage to from one company to the next is sloppy at worst >> and frankly illegal even worse than that. Um, I mean, I do know that from my own contracting um, experience, you're supposed to pass on to any other sub or any other um, company that picks up on something, you're supposed to pass on all the conditions of the original built thing. And that's the issue that needs to also be monitored. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, Renee. >> Yeah. Um well the the other issue of course is the deforestation and you know I I I don't know how we can emphasize enough the importance of if there is if we are looking towards some solar sighting that we look to it on um on land that's already been cleared and not deforest any of the land. And also, you know, in terms of the state law, I mean, the very basic thing that um made this last thing fail was the wetlands. I mean, you know, the they wanted to just basically plow through the wetlands and um so and and the company kept missing its deadlines. they kept um not assessing the wetlands properly and the conservation commission held their feet to the fire which was great which was really important and um so if that so this took what five or six years and they still didn't get through conservation. So what would happen at the end of that year if the town you know the the town doesn't complete it in a year can the state just come in and violate wetlands laws? That is a great question. I can't imagine they can violate wetlands wetland laws or any other laws because those are in many instances state imposed laws. >> So I don't it I mean that the only thing we can do is we can we can require something greater than the state. We can't require something less than the state. And I will tell you right now, this issue, the distance from Wells, we would be requiring greater than the state is requiring. I was actually pretty annoyed when I saw that. >> Right. I I'm I'm great. Thank you. I think it was great that you put that in. >> Right. The other piece I just want to mention because this is where Michelle was really helpful in our conversations. She talked about the issue of, you know, you you remove trees, but because under the trees is a lot of grally kind of ground, you end up with flooding. And so evidently, a lot of the houses up on the um High Point area end up with floods in their basement, uh which is not a pretty situation. I had that in another house in a in a different state. Um and so we the issue that of looking at soil is where she's actually made her recommendations. Both all of that should now be posted on the website for the meeting tomorrow and I will check to make sure it is. >> Okay. Because again, Renee, because of the work you and others did on the whole Shitsbury situation, um you know, you bring a key eye to this one, and I think it's important to make sure that we in Ammerst have a law we can live with. I I don't want to discourage solar. I my husband and I have solar that actually supposedly could take care of our entire house, but I want it to be done responsibly. So, are there other questions? Hope the rest of the council shares your perspective. I >> they they do. Uh I I've you know am Amber and I have talked about it. Um of course she represents district 2 as well and there's several other counselors. I have not gotten any push back so far on any of the things that I've asked. >> Yeah. >> Are there other questions on the solar? But not so it's not just solar. energy because it includes the best installations as well. Okay. >> Better. >> Thank Thanks, Lynn. Um my only comment is that I think it's a pie in the sky um uh um hope that um putting in the bylaw the company a company that develops a a um uh land for for solar will return it to its original state. I think that that's that's impossible when you denude 10, 15, 20 or 50 acres of land, strip it, as Renee said, deforest it, which of course includes the the um the uh the uh uh uh eliminating any kind of um ecosystem there. >> It's really, it sounds nice, but I think it's very very unrealistic. And I think right going into it, I think it's important to know that that is impossible. >> You can't you can't um return a wetlands to be to a wetlands, especially after it's dried up and it's its biodiversity has disappeared. So I do think that right up front, I think we should be very honest about it. The one thing and and again Renee and Eric, you both experienced this. Our conservation commission and our conservation director are they're they are really sharp. >> They are. >> And u Michelle was on the conservation commission. And so uh that plus her background in terms of her formal education and professional life really was useful in looking at the bylaw. So uh come join us. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Yeah. And and thank I just want to thank Renee and and Eric too for all the work that you've done over time on this issue. And I remember one of my early doornocking experiences. One of your neighbors sat me down in her house. I can't remember which one, but she had a whole presentation that she gave me like impromptu about the the Shootsberry Road project and I really got my education about it that way. So I appreciate, you know, all that you've contributed to to this um understanding of this issue and how we're doing this in Amoris. >> Right. Absolutely. >> Thank you. I think Jack Hirs is on the screen also and he's been very um involved in it as well. >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. Um um Oh, there you are, Amber. Do you want to do followup from our last meeting? >> Yes, I will. And this is I think the people who asked the questions are not currently here, but but that's okay because they might have heard the question and been interested, folks who are here tonight. Um, so I think at our our last meeting back in March, there was um a couple questions that came up out of the breakout groups, which um by the way we're going to do again because they were really popular and people loved getting a chance to talk in smaller groups. So, um, a couple issues that that came up, um, in our last meeting was, um, questions about, um, follow up on the Olympia fire and, um, we had, um, a resident who lives in Olympia Oaks who was, um, concerned about groundwater contamination, um, as a result of the Olympia fire. And so, um, Lynn and I did follow up with, um, with the town manager, and he shared with us the DP, um, report on the, um, the site about the water, um, and they were able to verify that there was not water contamination, um, present. So, I'm going to put that um into the chat so that folks have that if they're interested. Um, and then the other thing I would just say about the Olympia fire is that um, I have been trying to uh, keep tabs on the the Massachusetts State Fire Marshall report on that fire, which still, by the way, is not done. Um, and I don't know why it's taking so long, but I guess it was a really complex fire, but um, I'm hoping that once that comes out that we can, um, it can be something that we address at a council meeting at least to answer some questions and see what the lessons learned can be so that we can sort of improve our response and our preparedness here in Ammerst um, based on that that fire. So, um, that is still pending. That report is still not finished. Um, but I I did find out that they're still working on it. So >> the other one of the consequences of that fire was actually a serious loss in in tax revenue. >> Yeah. >> And um you know we had to take that into account as we went into this next this last year's budget, the budget that we just passed. Uh, I do think that the second site that they were actually building at, which is where the fire started, or so we've heard, uh, I'm not the fire marshal, but I believe they are actually going to now proceed with that site, but they cannot proceed with the original Olympic Olympia Oak site because they haven't gotten the fire marshals report. >> Yes. Um, yeah. So that was one um one issue that folks were inquiring about. Um and then the other one um a resident was asking us about um you know why is it so difficult to um set up you know shops or retail establishments, small businesses in town um and she had given us a series of questions which we talked to the town manager about um and so I'm just and I also did some background research as well. Um, so in terms of like special permit requirements, my understanding from my reading and and what we talked to the town manager about is that you don't need a special permit to open a business in a district that is zoned for those. Um, you might need a site plan review, but not a special permit. Um, except for some, you know, very specific cases. Um, you know, things like a a cannabis shop or something. I don't know, like that would require, you know, something like a special permit. >> It does. >> Yeah. Thing things like that. Um so it's it's not that you have to have a special permit um in every case. Um another issue that folks were concerned or that she was concerned about was parking and how do we make sure that we have a thriving downtown you know downtown businesses um if there's uh not enough parking. And so um you know she was advocating for more 15inut or 30 minute spots. Um and so the town manager's um response on that was that there is a transportation and parking commission right now which is um a new a new body that's been added. Um and I think that would be also a great place to to sort of raise those concerns and also you know to figure out where the priority would be to add those spots. Um so that was the parking issue. Um and then the other question was do you need a a unanimous vote uh to get a permit from the zoning board of appeals? Um, so this appears not to be accurate because we have a fivep person ZBA and so the supermajority is needed but not unanimous um to get a permit uh building permit. So um those are some of the questions. I think there was um a question about mixeduse buildings um and why they don't our mixeduse buildings in town like the new apartment buildings don't have businesses on the ground floor. Um that one I don't have an answer to. Well, I I can actually because I actually believe we need to look at our mixeduse building bylaw. Uh the town council in our very early years of this form of government actually increased the square footage required for mixed use. And what we're finding is direct retail is except for, you know, like a CVS is just not really feasible because people use Amazon or they go to the big box stores. Um, and you're finding more and more that, you know, what Ammerst has is restaurants, barber shops. um the one used clothing place seems to be doing off doing fine but it's the a whole issue of retail has been turned on its head by you know the use of Amazon and big box stores so as a result we do have two buildings actually now three because um of a big of a company moving out we have three buildings with their main floor their base you know their entry floor is just empty and it's sitting there and they can't find somebody to uh rent it. So, it's even office space is not being used. I I don't know if you follow much of what goes on in places like Boston or in New York where they actually had a serious problem where they tried to convert an office building into a condo and they didn't check the structure to make sure it could handle the additional weight of appliances, etc. So they're trying to convert office buildings into into um apartments because the people aren't coming to offices ever since co. So that's part of what's going on. Was there anything else from that meeting, Amber? >> That was everything I had in my notes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Any any questions on on those couple of items? And I just want to mention so far we only have one item that we well well I'll be following up on various items that are coming before the council but one item and that that Tony raised and that was the east east street sidewalks. Okay. >> All right. Um >> Kitty. >> Oh yeah. Go ahead Kitty. the um the meetings that the town some town counselors are having now I believe with UMass administration um are those going to be on the record or are they going to be private and off the record? >> The um the best way to find out about those meetings is to read the town manager's report and the president's report. Um I when I was president of the council I went to those meetings and then in my monthly report I would include a summation of the topics discussed. One of the big issues coming up with um UMass is our strategic partnership with UMass. It expires at the end of June 2027. In other words, next year. So the negotiations for that are beginning as we speak. And then Ammeris College is a year later. >> Hi. Can people hear me? >> I don't know. I can't find the um button to raise my hand. >> Just go like this. >> Okay. Okay. Oh, that's a good idea. Okay. So, thank you both for taking the time to, you know, meet with your constituent tonight. Lots of information to digest. I think for me is that um our real estate, you know, resident real estate taxes keep going up. And for me as a black woman, a woman of color, someone who identifies herself as being marginalized uh group, um I really don't know where my my tax my taxes are going. I never supported the high cost of Jones Library that was being built. I have no excitement about that. Um I served on CSWG. We made recommendation and four years passed. Nothing about the youth center where kids of color can call their own. Um bipolar cultural center has never even been brought up at the T council. And this is something that that group and my group really advocated for and it was accepted by the town council and then four years after there is still no resident oversight board and the list can go on and Dr. Barbara Love that make recommendation regarding easing disunityity and race relation in our town. her recommendation is probably, you know, collecting dust. My point is as I listen to wonderful progress happening in our town and I'm forcing myself to be excited, but I'm not. I mean, Fort River, you know, the new school is in our district. Huge accomplishment. You know, some of my family members are benefiting from it. I have nieces and nephew that attend the new school. I I think that's great. What I'm trying to say is we need to have a balance. I just feel that um people of color in this town and I don't want to speak for everyone. I don't feel that um our needs and priorities are taken seriously or respected and when people speak up they get punished and I can go on and on. I just want to say that um I do thank both of you for for for doing this. I always look forward to it. But um I'm just not a happy resident for paying taxes that I feel that my needs, my family needs. You know, people who look like me needs are not being met. You know, I'm just voicing it. It's just it's exhausting. I'm tired. >> Yeah. Thanks for sharing this, Pat. And I I I'm sorry that you have to keep coming to these, you know, these meetings and, you know, and saying this because it, you know, it has to be repeated because it's not, you know, getting the priority that it needs and I'm I'm really sorry for that. I think, you know, for me as a new counselor, these are things that I do want to prioritize. Um, I think getting the RO recommendation back to council as soon as possible is something that that we want to prioritize right now. And you know, definitely something we established at our last go meeting. Um, you know, touching on the Youth Empowerment Center, that's something that I really want to see as well. Um, I really would like to see the former Wildwood School, um, at least in part be used for that. I want to make sure that we are able to use that property for our community. Um, and especially for our communities of color. Um, and I, as far as I know, there's not a committee yet to look at the use study. I think there was going to be like a community group um that was going to be tasked with looking at the different possible uses of Wildwood. Um and so I don't know if I'll be able to be on that, but I definitely want to follow that process very closely and encourage folks to be part of that process because if that's the vision that we want for that that for that building, then we all have to really come together and participate and and make it happen together. So that that is something that I very badly would like to see happen myself as well. And there there will be a building um though there will be a committee to look at the Wildwood site. What is increasingly apparent is the Wildwood school itself except maybe the gym are absolutely not salvageable. And in fact, one of the debates we had at the council recently because the school district has now turned the building over to the town. So now the town has to pay to keep the heat on at a minimal level to keep it the property safe and no wonder the school wanted to get rid of it because they didn't want to have it on their accounts. Um so what we're trying to do is we have asked that they come back to us in January February uh and tell us whether they see any use temporarily for that site whether it be DPW or whatever and if not then please just mothball it and start planning to tear it down. But meantime, there is a committee that will be appointed to look at potential uses for that site. And there's many competing demands in town. Pat, you're going to hear that. But again, make sure that you're put your demands in there as well. It's it is an opportunity. And frankly, Hampshire College may be an opportunity. We should not pass up either. >> So, you have more comments to make quickly. So, um I'm glad I'm glad both of you brought up the Whitewood School, you know, um demolishing it. I think it's a a great idea. Hasn't even crossed my my mind. I think it's a great idea. We were able to find money to support Jones Library. I think we should be able to support a new building, multi-purpose use building at this on the same land where Whitewood >> so >> currently stands. >> Um >> I think that's one more thing that the town council can do to start easing positive race relation in our town and is the leftover from the upper funds that went to reserve. Um, as the president of Black Business Association of Amest Area, people do reach out to me, including white people like you guys. And um, I'm so grateful that some folks have really donated generously to Black Business Association group and we're using that money to provide the red cash assistance. And these are like ordinary white folks in our town who said to me part what you know the town government did to us is so unfair. This is what they can help. The point I'm trying to say is that it's still not late um to use some of the upper funds being put to reserve. Do the right thing. I am seeing some progress already. We we have the development director, wonderful guy. I love this guy who have reached out to us and had started um he made arrangements to you know for beard the business improvement um district um leadership and the chamber uh executive director and they've been miring with us. Mhm. >> So there's a little bit of collaboration going and my group my board has made it clear that we need some of those upper funds. That's what we need meaning resources. We want equal share fair share of tax dollars. It doesn't belong to a particular group in our town. That's the only thing that will make a huge difference. people are watching and I'm very grateful to so many white people that have reached out to us and helped silently and I think this is the first time I'm sharing this to people and it's just it's breathtaking what people have done for our group. Thank you >> Pat. I also Jeff Bag is the person that you've been meeting with. uh he's um combination of planning and economic development. Yeah. >> And he is also spearheading the project for Hampshire College Hampshire campus. Okay. Y >> and he will pro he will also be spearheading the one for the use of the Wildwood land. Yeah. >> Okay. One of the many ideas that people have talked about for Wildwood is some level of housing with some affordability on the upper layers, but maybe have the first layer be built for various town uses. >> And that's in there is and that would allow the property to have some tax revenue coming back to the town because it it would be a building that has to pay taxes. But the it could be built so that the um first floor is for town use of various levels. So keep that in mind as you percolate on uh how to move forward on this. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Great. Are there other questions? Okay. Uh Amber, do we want to break into small groups? um starting to lose some of our audience, but um >> yeah, I think >> I think we also can just do what's on people's minds. Besides that, >> um I can send us into breakout groups just for about 10 minutes. Um you know, it won't be long, but I think it's nice to get a chance to to talk a little bit one-on-one with um with other neighbors um or in small groups. So, I just have a couple of prompts that I'm going to go put in the chat and then um you know, if you don't want to use the prompt, don't you don't have to use the prompt, but I you know, just share who you are, where you live, and what do you love about Ammerst, and what would you change about uh living in Ammerst if you could? So, what would you like to see change? Um, and Lyn, you and I can each pop into a room because they're going to be small, >> right? >> Okay. All right. So, I'm going to give you all about 10 minutes and either Lyn or I will join your breakout. Um, you should see an invitation to join. Um, Lynn, do you want to join room two and I'll join three? >> Sure. >> Okay. Um, okay. I have um I did end the breakouts so that we could end before 8:00 p.m. So, I'm not sure how many people have opted to return from the breakouts. Um, but I did take notes in our breakout. Um, thank you to folks who attended my breakout. I don't know, Lynn, if you um >> I to I took notes as well and I have one particular followup I need to do. And then a couple more about Wildwood. >> Okay, sounds great. Any other any last minute things before we close out tonight? >> No. Thanks to everyone who made it to the bitter end. Congratulations. You win a prize. >> You made it to 758. >> You get two copies of our newsletters. >> Good night. It's great to see you all. Take care. >> Okay. You too. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thanks everyone. >> Lyn and Amber. Bye. Bye bye.