Discussing Goat Brush Clearing Business Viability with Sylvester and Sabrina Friend

Welcome to Farming Matters, the storytelling series where you get to hear directly from farmers and ranchers from the North Central region. These are all innovative folks who are solving problems with their SARE grants. Um today we're going to hear from Sylvester and Sabrina Friend. They're in Indiana and they were asking a big question of can you run a viable business uh with a goat brush clearing business? Um my name is Liz Brownlee. SARE stands for Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education. And we provide grants for farmers and ranchers to test out innovative ideas. Um and our goal is to advance sustainable innovations to the whole of American agriculture. So without further ado, I want to hear from the Friends. Would you guys mind introducing yourselves? Yes. Uh my name is Sabrina Friend and I am co-owner, co-farmer of Prairie Hills Farm um located in Selma, Indiana. And hello, I'm Sylvester Friend, also co-owner, co-farmer of Prairie Hills Farm. Um our welcome again. We are Prairie Hills Farm. Um we are on a um small-scale farm of 9 acres. Again, located in Selma, Indiana. Um as Sylvester mentioned, we raise goats, lamb for both meat production and then of course the targeted grazing services. Um alongside our pasture-raised poultry, both um chicken and turkey um with a flock of egg layers, um market-style um produce production, and then also we have a small apiary um on farm where we collect raw honey. So you may be asking, what is targeted grazing? Uh targeted grazing is or prescribed grazing is very intentional, uh managed use of livestock often with goats or sheep. Um for our particular focus, uh we really focused on goats um and achieve specific vegetation uh goals, whether it's fire risk or land management, rather than using livestock in production or other ways of managing target grazing. It really involves controlling the timing, the intensity, and the duration of the grazing by rotational graze or very targeted grazing in specific spots. So, the type of jobs that we have used our targeted grazing service for is to really clean up fence line or tree lines, backyard that may have been over managed or under managed and overgrown, some open fields, very popular with wooded areas or mixed vegetation area with wood trees, brush, and things like that. From a land perspective, solar fields or pastured fields is where we really focused on lambs, but other applications are orchards, dams, or inclines, decline, ravines in different municipality areas where it may be a little bit difficult to get in with equipment or people. So, what we learned is some of the materials that are needed and used on the grazing jobs will be of course your truck and your trailer, which that is a very cost for the farmers, your livestock, goats or sheep. And again, that is a very variable cost depending if you're going in with your livestock that you already have or you're purchasing livestock to get your business started. Electric netting fencing, solar battery chargers, a voltage tester, water troughs, step-in T-post, clipboards, pen and paper, and then you are also going to want your phone or a tablet. And that is to pretty much measure out the space that you're going to be um grazing. It kind of makes it a lot easier instead of walking it off with a tape measure. Um sometimes you're in the woods and just having it being on um electronics, it just makes it easier to follow you as you're walking. So, uh we talked about it uh a little bit that we have both goats and lamb. Um but the difference uh in the animals and what they're more susceptible to or what they like from a brush brush clearing perspective uh will decide which one that you would uh want to use. So, uh for goats, uh we have found that goats are very strong in brush or mixed weeds to clear. Um they are browsers, so they like to eat with their heads up, um which make them perfect for that. Um so, they really enjoy a diverse ecosystem such as grasses, uh tall weeds, some woody shrubs, some trees, um and plants that are poisonous to us, and a lot more uh from a variety standpoint. That's what goats are great for. Uh lamb uh are pretty much the opposite. They don't like weeds, uh but they like uh mixed grasses and uh things of that nature. So, we've experienced that uh that lambs are very much grazers, um and they eat with their head down, so to speak. Only really wanting soft grass, low brush, um and they eat at a much slower job, and kind of eat a little here, a little there. Uh so, they are not great with woody or herbaceous ecosystems. Um they like to keep it nice, good, and plain with some good grass. All right. And then, uh why it makes sense for the small-scale farmers, um number one, there is low um cost barriers to entry, meaning if you already have your own livestock, if you already have a um a truck and a trailer, um you know, you're kind of already set, right? And so, um then all you need is the actual equipment. So, the portable fitti- the fencing, um which for us, it also makes sense to have that, you know, on the job or just as farmers in general because we like to use the word flexiculture. So, um you can utilize it even on your farm, right? And so, um it's again low-cost barrier to entry. Um income diversification. So, it is contract-based service. Um unlike uh what we do with, you know, our meat production or our produce, we're growing those things um looking for our customers to come and purchase, right? But with um targeted grazing, you're looking for the customer. Once the customer comes and you have them under contract, you know, that hey, this is a job that we're going to be bringing in income for the farm um for the season. Um we have per acre pricing. So, you know, your price your base level is set pretty much. You know what you're going to be bringing in with those contracts. Um and then it just boosts your seasonal income. Um and then third, um the demand. The demand that we've been seeing has just um skyrocketed year after year. Um a lot more people are hearing about this. A lot more people are eco um conscious. So, they're very aware of like using chemicals or you know, the the cost of bringing in the heavy machinery and things like that and then what it does to your ecosystem by just clearing it out, running everything away. Um so, what we've learned is that the demand is on the rise um from residential customers, municipalities, um solar companies, and then conservation organizations. All of those um individuals have reached out to us for grazing um services. And so, just in the future, we think that those numbers will go up even more. And so, um last year or uh the 2025 season, um we had 15 job or actually in the 24 and 25, so the two years that we were doing the research for our Sarah Grant project. We had 15 jobs that we completed and one thing that we uh didn't mention before, but we actually were within affiliate group that was Goat to Go but they really helped to help us with some of the business model and some of the economics in the job and from a forecasting and a planning and even advertising standpoint from brand recognition. And so what we learned through some of that process is, you know, how to bid a job and as we actually get into the job and start to do them, we really had the opportunity to tighten up for what our market would bear, but also what would still make it a viable business for us. And so this chart kind of just gives a little bit of a breakdown of that. So our average quote per acre was from a thousand to sixteen hundred dollars depending on the vegetation density, how far it was from the farm, was there water available, would we need to haul it in, which has an additional cost associated with it, the complexity of the job and that could just be how steep hills were, are we going over rivers or streams or rocky terrain, is it going to be easy or manageable to put that portable fencing and set it up. Some were rocky, some were hard soil. So there's a lot of different factors which reflected in the range, but there's also pieces as we did more jobs throughout the year, especially last year when we had over 10 12 jobs Um, with the things that we don't control like weather, um, the dry season when it's very hot, uh, the goats really operate a little bit differently and we need to, uh, somewhat account for that. So, when we look at our, uh, profit per job, um, so this, uh, chart just really shows what our revenue was and after the jobs were completed and we were able to run the numbers what our total cost was and then the line shows the profit um, margin. So, what we've identified [clears throat] as the most profitable jobs are, um, were the jobs that were more city lots or smaller, uh, areas and what we also realized was sometimes the customers who we were serving wanted the goats on their property and the targeted grazing were a bonus. And so, uh, we're able to kind of identify different needs of the customer and sometime the need was I love goats, but I don't want them, you know, to to manage goats and sometimes the need was truly I am trying to eliminate, reduce and manage, um, the invasives in the targeted grazing. And so, uh, our most profitable were the city lots that were very interested in having goats for short period of time, um, and our, uh, normal profit where we were right around, um, we targeted about 50% profit, um, were, you know, kind of some of those other ones. As we can see on, uh, job six, that's when we learned about some of the uncontrollables which was extreme heat and weather, um, where the goats really, um, did not eat much during the day or graze during the day and it was really late evening, early morning, um, type of scenario, but we were able to continue to learn, uh, throughout that process and adjust uh you know what that was and we were able to achieve right over 50% as we looked at the the whole season of of targeted grazing um for our area. Um so, this is uh really the big information page uh for what the profitability or the revenue and what the the um the market would bear so to speak uh in our area as uh we were looking to build that business from a profitability and a revenue standpoint. And then um this is actually one of the jobs we just kind of wanted to show a before and after. Um this was on the backside of a dam um that a customer called us out for um as they were having I think some DNR the DNR was coming through making sure that everything was uh cleared and accessible for them on their property. It was a private property but um again they still had to make sure that that dam was cleared and accessible um and it was very steep and of course they couldn't really get heavy machinery in there so they gave us a call. Um the goats did clear it. Um and we were the homeowner was satisfied and we were also satisfied with this clearing. As you can see there was a ton of invasive plants um everything from actual shrubs to trees um just like tall prairie grass and again the goats got in and I do believe this job was approximately 7 days and they were able to clear that dam. Um so, we just wanted to show a before and after of you know the goats work and um how great they did. Wow, you guys that before and after is I mean you would never know Yeah. [laughter] that those were the same place. Yeah. That's right. >> And I think that's one of the cool things that we've seen. Um I think on every job the goats really surprised us um how well they can clear in different vegetation types and as you can see uh the picture on the right um we are at the bottom of that incline and you can just see how steep it is. And so just going in there with manual labor, I mean it would have been dangerous and unsafe where the goats were just like, "Oh, this is, you know, the greatest time ever playing on the hill." [laughter] You know, and things of that nature, but just how effective they were. And the total space was right over an acre that they were able to clear in this type of terrain that you can see from the photo on the left to the photo on the right how dense it was versus, you know, this area is, you know, just 7 quick days later to be able to manage that and and traverse in that area. So those are all the slides that we're we're sharing today about you know, the project and the viability and the before and after to to kind of recap some of that project. Oh, that was really neat to see and what a great breakdown, right? Of like why did you start doing this and and how did the numbers shake out in that before and after? That was perfect. Thanks, guys. Absolutely. Do you have any questions for us? Yeah, I came up with a couple. Um, let's see. Okay, so what do you wish you could tell yourselves before you started this goat brush clearing business? Like um, any advice for for folks who were um, in that position or things you wish you would have had a mentor to tell you? You I I would say the one thing that I wish I knew before because when we went through we really asked our question asked the question is it a viable business, but really outlining what the measures of success were or how did we know if it was successful or not. For us on our farm, we had about 100 goats is the easy way to say what our goat population was. And our goal was to see if the goats were able to utilize this service and bringing enough revenue to pay for their feed especially in the wintertime but basically for the whole year. And we didn't go all the way into in this particular presentation was a little bit abbreviated but every day that we had a goat group out which is generally 30 to 40 goats, we've saved about 13 to 18 dollars in feed and that's the daily hay and also the daily grain that we had as well as probably about 45 minutes to an hour per group from just straight straight labor cost going out feeding and and caring for the goats on site. And so there is also some gains on that side. And so what I would say is looking at the goals and creating what are the the measures or the goals of success is one thing that I would encourage any body to look at because every area is going to be different if you have winter, if you have snow, if you if it's a dry and then just the geographical area that you're servicing. So I think that was one thing and I'll say luckily it it worked out for us. We were able to achieve our goal and continue to build upon that business but I think that's some of those aspects are very important to think about before starting. Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> That's great. And Serina, do you have anything you want to add to that? No, I think he answered it perfectly. It's just knowing like what your goal is for adding the service and your viability on your farm. Yeah. Okay, so what do you what's your goal for the year ahead? What are you hoping with the goats this year? Um I'm hoping that again they can pay for themselves for the year and then hopefully we'll see a positive as well come back to the farm that is over in abundance. So then they can go towards something else in our diversity. [laughter] Right. Yeah. Oh, that's great. So I think last year our goal was for them to graze what was it 20 acres and we hit that plus some. So I think this year the goal is to you know just continue at that 20 plus acres and then we'll go from there. So yeah. And I'll say one thing that we talked about when we looked at our goals for this year as well as being 20 acres but also doing bigger jobs especially with the beautiful variable cost of fuel that's changing drastically lately. We have been able to engage some larger groups where that pulling a trailer is most beneficial and that also helps to keep us very competitive from a pricing standpoint to maintain our our profit target goals. So I think that's the other part of our goals for this year. And then we also had a goal since we had 100 about 70 goats that were that we had in our breeding program because generally we didn't say this either. We usually just take out our females and then males go to the meat production side of the business. So we did have a goal this year to um sell some of our goats so to speak to other farms and we were able to be a a source for another group that actually started to go brush clear this year. So that was the other part of our goal to you know encourage other farmers to get into the business because it's it's a pretty good business and in addition from an income standpoint and land management rotational grazing opportunity standpoint as well. You used the term flexiculture, which I was really intrigued by because on my farm we always say that the muscle we use most is our flexibility muscle. Um and I'm just curious like how has the goat clearing business made you be more flexible? Um I believe they just added another layer of another layer of diversification to our farm, which is good because if we have a bad year in some in another area like last year we had a pretty tough year in produce. And so just being flexible to add a service using our livestock was very helpful you know on our diversified farm because then again where sales were low on produce we were able to bring in a little bit more income from the goats. Um and the lamb and so just with having that service it just added to the flexibility of it all and it helped with the diversification. But yes and every aspect that we manage on our farm we're always thinking about okay how can we make this flexible and maybe we'll need to move the chicken coop where you go we were just talking about that and we were like okay well that's easy we can move the chicken coop because you know how we had it made or you know now when I cut the grass sometimes we leave areas high because we do have the portable netted fencing and so we're like hey we'll just take them off of their permanent pasture and put them on a flexi pasture. So you know it just added just that one extra layer of flexibility to our diversification and so it's been great. It's been really great. That's wonderful. Yeah. Um I think I only have one more question. Is it easier to work with your brush clearing customers or with like a customer buying some lamb or some vegetables? Brush clearing. Brush clearing. Yeah. Brush [laughter] clearing. Yeah. By far. And it's just really easy to work with the goats. Like we've had goats now going on this is our sixth season. They know us. They respond to us really well. We know them. We know which goats to take out on a job. We know which goats will never go out on a job. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, okay. And so, you know, and so just over time like what we realized and we're like, man, it's just lovely to work with these ladies in this capacity and it's interesting like when we're out on a job and we go check on them, they're excited to see us, you know, and then we tell them goodbye for the day and then we come back the next day and they're excited to see us again and >> [laughter] >> it's really interesting too because when we go to load them like Sylvester mentioned earlier, usually it's a group of like 30 to 40 goats. And so maybe this maybe today we'll go back up a trailer and not everybody will jump onto the trailer, but like the girls who want to go are eager to go. We're never fighting with them and you know, and then maybe 2 days later another goat job will start and we'll back up that trailer and then the other ladies that are there are like, man, we got to make it onto this trailer because they know >> [laughter] >> they're out on the job getting all the good stuff and Oh, that's funny. you know, load on the trailer trailer easily and I mean it's just been fun. It's been fun. Well, I wish you guys nothing but success as this part of your business continues to grow and flourish. I'm so grateful that you shared through your SARE grant how it went for you so the other farmers can think about, you know, could this be a piece of their puzzle too. That's that's exactly what a SARE grant's for and you guys just embodied it. So thank you. Yeah. Thank you. And the last thing that I will say is the SARE process was so smooth and had a lot of support and guidance throughout the way. I know a lot of times especially with you know grant and different projects especially if expanding over 12 months it's like oh how is this process going to go and you know it can be nervous but very transparent the whole way very helpful the whole way so I would say like the SARE process is a great process and you can tell that you know the team cares about not only getting the information but cares about the farmers they're supporting through the grant. So that's one thing that I did want to highlight that the process was a wonderful process as well. I'm so glad and thank you. That's that's really good to hear and yeah we want more people to think about applying so that's that's really useful for them to hear straight from you. Thanks. Absolutely.