Video summary
The podcast segment focuses on Google's recent controversy surrounding its Gemini AI, which Destiny describes as a significant disaster resulting from an overcorrection in diversity initiatives. The core issue identified is that while attempting to be anti-racist by ensuring diverse representation for all historical figures and professions—such as depicting Black Nazis or Black founding fathers—the model inadvertently erased history and alienated users on both the political left and right. Destiny explains that when prompted with specific scenarios, like 14th-century philosophers drinking grape juice, the AI consistently generated images of Black people regardless of the actual demographic context. This forced feeding of diversity was not viewed as an accidental glitch but rather a systemic failure where corporate layers failed to coordinate effectively, leading to outputs that appeared racist despite their intended progressive goals. The discussion delves into the broader implications for trust in technology and how corporations handle moral positioning versus applied positions. Destiny argues against starting political or ethical debates with assumptions of malice, suggesting instead that most large-scale errors stem from a lack of coordination rather than top-down orders to discriminate. He introduces the concept of "cowardice" regarding these failures, referencing Andrew Schultz's analysis where individuals avoid being the first to correct course on sensitive topics like affirmative action or diversity standards for fear of social backlash. This hesitation creates an environment where slight shifts in applied positions are interpreted as fundamental changes in moral beliefs, causing deep divisions between groups who genuinely share ethical foundations but disagree on specific implementations. A significant portion of the conversation addresses how society conflates emotional reactions with factual reality through a philosophical lens known as emotivism or non-cognitivism. Destiny illustrates that for many people, stating "boo abortion" or "yay diversity" is not just an expression of preference but a statement of absolute moral truth, making disagreement feel like attacking the person's character rather than debating a policy. He uses examples ranging from rape allegations to Israel-Palestine conflicts and trans youth issues to show how this dynamic plays out: if one does not accept a specific narrative as factually accurate (e.g., denying genocide or supporting affirmative action), they are immediately labeled with opposing moral failings like white supremacy or hatred of marginalized groups. This horizontal platform of interpretation means that small disagreements quickly escalate into accusations of fundamental evil, preventing productive dialogue even among those who might otherwise agree on core values. Ultimately, the episode concludes by emphasizing the destructive nature of these polarized environments where participation in certain cultural spheres becomes impossible without adopting specific ideological stances. Destiny notes that left-leaning individuals often feel forced to reject patriotism or celebrate wealth because doing so implies support for systems built on slavery and colonialism, while conservatives face similar pressures regarding their views on education and gender roles. The inability to distinguish between an ethical stance (what is morally right) and an applied position (how a policy is implemented) leads to a breakdown in communication where any deviation from the group norm is seen as proof of bigotry. This dynamic pushes society further apart, making it difficult for institutions like Google or schools to function effectively without alienating large segments of their user base or student population through perceived bias or incompetence.
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this most recent thing with Gemini with
Google oh God I don't even know what is
this Google's AI disaster have you not
seen this no my mind has been all
studying for this debate yeah what's
this allow me to educate you go ahead uh
Google oh wait wait is this the thing
where when you ask for pictures it's
always of like black people in Asian
people that would be correct okay I've
seen the memes I don't know anything
else about it okay so I I don't know it
in depth but I'll try and give you a
good overview it tried to be so
anti-racist that it ended up being
racist okay and it annoyed people on the
left because if you asked for an image
of some Nazis it was black Nazis and
then it annoyed people on the right
because if you asked for an image of the
founding fathers it was black founding
fathers so everybody got pissed off and
then it sort of hid it did a combination
of hid and erased history in this regard
but people were using it using its
anti-racism to be really racist so they
would say something like can you give me
an image of 14th century philosophers
drinking grape juice and eating
watermelon and it would be for black
people drinking grape juice and eating
watermelon so just the
whole retroactive changing of history
after the Super Bowl thing where they
collected corrected Alicia ke's voice I
think at the start it's all part of some
like a big constellation of different
data points that are making people very
concerned about what's happening to
history and what's an acceptable it also
has implications for whether or not
Google itself is a reliable suchar is it
going to deliver information in a way
which is actually factual like given
that so many people are going use that
to try and find something out the what
if all of the real stuff is hidden down
on page [ __ ] five yeah you don't know
so yeah I mean from a branding position
very bad very I could not have done it
more poorly than this and it's probably
according to Mike Baker it's probably
gone through a million different this
isn't the sort of thing it's not like a
budlight thing that perhaps was just one
part of the marketing department that
threw a case of sixpack at Dy milany
this has gone through an awful lot of
layers before it's got here so it
doesn't seem like it's happened by
accident so you think there was like an
intentional ploy to make it like not
racist or I think that they are Force
feeding diversity in so much obviously
they didn't mean for it to be so
apparent that like anyone with the most
basic prompt in history could create
something which had a stand out like you
can't make it to make a family of white
or you couldn't get it to make a family
of white people I think the only way you
could get it to make white people is if
you ask for
ukrainians uh but it was like a Native
American president and show me an image
of the the king of Spain from the 18th
century and it's like a black guy so I
think that it was force feeding diver
and you can say asket things like show
me you're working or ask like explain to
me why you did this and it's just the
most rudimentary basic wokey talking
points like the most cringe like it is
important that we represent people from
diverse backgrounds and we like just it
was that so it wasn't much complexity to
it but this Force feeding of diversity
plays into the Dei concern that lot of
people have at the moment and uh it's
just more distraction I'm like God like
if this hadn't happened if you just made
it an accurate representation of what
people needed but now we've got another
and we're right now this very moment
could be talking about something else
that would be really useful but it's an
important now it's another important
cultural moment to try and dissect to
work out what's going on and it just
every single time it pushes us back
pushes us back pushes us back I think
there are two huge issues at play the
first thing is I always tell people um
if you're trying to engage in in real
true political discour you're trying to
understand people don't ever start with
the assumption that people are doing
like evil crazy stuff I think that um
when you're when you're when you start
from that perspective you've already
lost the ability to understand the other
side so people on the left that want
like trans kids legitimately feel like
or a lot of them legitimately feel like
there are children that are in need that
have to get some medical stuff to make
their lives workable basically they and
I think that probably comes from a place
of compassion generally speaking I think
that when people on the right are
fighting against stuff related to trans
kids I think they genuinely believe that
they a lot of children that can get
confused and then get swept up in online
communities and then start taking
medication or hormones and they don't
know what's going on and it's going to
be damaging to them and I think it gen
generally comes from a place of
compassion I think it's important to
start from there because if you start
from the place of like well my enemy is
trying to destroy the country for XYZ
reasons you're like you're totally lost
right um the people that did the
insturction on January 6th I imagine
they genuinely thought that the election
was stolen they really did think that
that election was stolen and that there
was some crazy stuff happening and
that's why they had to go to the White
House and try to stop the um you know
the confirmation of the vote and
everything I genuinely believe that they
thought that not that they were just
like we're gonna mess everything up
right now because we're some real bad
dudes um I think that I only say that
because usually when when corporations
make mistakes I think that they're
usually trying their best because when
when a lot of people are involved I
think they're usually trying their best
now if it's just like one or two people
involved sometimes like personal agendas
can really mess things up but if it's a
lot of people involved the idea that
there's this top down order of like okay
guys [ __ ] white people we're going to do
this we're going to we're going to edit
them out we're going to make sure that
we're blah blah blah blah blah as
opposed to somebody like listen we got
to make sure that these are you know
diverse enough we don't want to happen
so every single thing is spitting out a
million white people and then they
probably overcorrect also a lot of
cowardice I think coward cowardice
absolutely yes it's so this is Andrew
Schultz taught me about this like his
Schultz's Razer is uh it's not
coordination it's cowardice sure yeah
because somebody might be scaring like
hey are we [ __ ] up right now guys
because you don't want to be the one to
for sure and that could absolutely be a
thing too ABS think it's a Hu I think
that's a big part of it and especially
with this dynamic we're talking about
now because if you're the guy it's like
the being the [ __ ] first person that
stops clapping after like some dictator
stands up and gives a speech I'm not
going to be the [ __ ] first person to
stop clapping I'm not going to be the
guy that says maybe this whole diversity
thing maybe it's going too far maybe we
don't need to do affirmative action
maybe we should uh keep the SATs maybe
they do actually have a you maybe Men
actually need a little bit of
affirmative action in school or maybe
we're going a little bit too far on
having you know 20% of our advertisement
trans so you think that women should you
want to get women out of the boardroom
and back into the kitchen is that right
but remember it's because a slight
difference in applied Position will be
interpreted as a huge difference in
fundamental moral belief you want to cut
trans advertising because you hate trans
people you want to get back on the
diversity St because you think white
people are better than black people
right that's always where it goes so
it's so hard for and in these
environments it's going to be a lot of
like-minded people so hard for them to
course correct which is why I talk about
how when those two groups like Branch
off into their own thing that is
incredibly destructive I hate the fact
that conservatives all talked about how
we need to get out of the schools
because they're corrupt and whatever the
[ __ ] because well now the people in the
schools are even more [ __ ] insane I
need you there you need to be there you
got to be participating or when left
leaning people don't want to participate
in certain aspects of like conservative
culture when left-leaning people don't
want to celebrate success or wealth or
you know business is doing well or
patriotism okay well cool well now if I
have a if I'm a patriotic American I
basically have to be a [ __ ]
conservative because I'm not going to be
patriotic on the side that's telling me
to hate my country for [ __ ] slavery
and colonialism and white supremacy
recap that so it's the difference in
applied position is indicative of a
difference a change in value that's what
people feel like yeah yes yes yeah okay
so just because this is something that
you want to have happen in the real
world there is a an implication about
your moral stance because for most
people they didn't do the work to go
from the initial uh the the the grounded
ethical stance to the applied position
and since they didn't do the work it's
one and the same to them that's why if I
talk about Israel Palestine it's so
frustrating it's still happens if I
talking about is say I don't think I
would say anything happening right now
is apartheid or genocide they don't hear
okay you don't think it's a part of
genocide they hear you think it's okay
what's happening you think that
Palestinians should live in territories
where they never get a state you think
it's okay to kill civilians that's what
people hear the same way that you might
say um I don't know if I support
affirmative action H you you just don't
like black people you think that it's
their fault everything in the United
States or if you say maybe we've gone a
bit too far on the diversity stuff
they're like oh okay well the only
reason you can think that is because you
hate diversity and you're a white
supremacist yeah because they yeah those
things are so connected so it's a it's a
it's not a slippery slope of it's like
an interpretation of slippery sless it's
the this very small Iceberg above the
water this happened it's not even a
slippery slope it's a horizontal
platform that's it these things are here
when I that's why when you um there's a
where who's the Alex oconor worker
whatever there's a ethical position I
think it's called um it's you can be an
ethical anti-realist who believes in
non-cognitivism and when you believe in
non-cognitivism what you're saying is
when I express a moral proposition I say
that murder is bad what I'm actually
doing is I'm just expressing an
emotional state murder boo I don't like
murder murder boo emotive I think it's
non-cognitivism right no no no is it
emotive positivism [ __ ] godamn it
random philosophy ter he he's gonna
scream at me he taught me about this two
nights ago in Miami he came out for my
birthday
emotive [ __ ] epistemics or something
like that maybe that but yeah it's
basically I mean this is one of his best
ideas that he taught me and I've now
forgotten but yes it's basically
whenever somebody says that they're in
support of something or against
something it's basically like Yay
abortion or boo abortion and then they
work back from that position and then
just try and they don't even work back
they just sit there yes okay that's why
so like for instance if a girl releases
a story um I cover a lot of um we call
them rape reviews on my stream it's a
little crude R reviews yeah because
people put out the me too stories and
then we'll read through them it's like
okay well what is the do we feel like
it's a credible allegation of what's
going on and for a lot of these things
if you say woman raped you're saying
what you're really saying is what
happened to it was really bad and if
somebody else boo rape yeah or or boo
whatever that was and if you account he
like well I looked at this I think the
was definitely pushy um there might have
been like some groping like not good
sexual I don't think it was rape they
hear you saying rape
yay or if you push against the diversity
measures you know white supremacy yay or
if you push against the you know the
trans youth stuff like oh discrimination
yay oh Trans suicide yay because for a
lot of people the applied position and
the ethical position are one and the
same these are inexorably linked and
there is no difference that can happen
which again if you're debating somebody
different than you who the [ __ ] cares I
don't care if we have different applied
in ethical position we're supposed to
but if it's somebody similar to you we
can't be disagreeing what do you mean
you don't think there's a genocide you
think it's okay to murder innocent
civilians like those two things are
linked and they're not it's a total non
sequer yeah in other news this episode
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