Destiny on Debating Ben Shapiro, Toxic Wokeism and Getting Divorced

anybody that supports Donald Trump I think is crazy and that's like 85% of Republicans right now why do you like Trump over Biden well Trump did way better with the econ what did Trump do for the economy uh tax cut they like Trump because he represents a real anger that people have and they want to break and Trump is the guy saying I'll break it for you is that the best president in my entire lifetime in the United States for a lot of people life just works better on Rails there are people who it's like if you throw them into the wind they are lost the Republican party is on the verge of collapse Steven Bonnell AKA Destiny thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour you're one of the biggest streamers across all platforms you've appeared on podcasts like pbd podcast you've debated Alex Jones Ben Shapiro that was a recent debate that blew up it's like six million views in a week Jordan Peterson recently that hasn't came out yet we're going to talk about this fresh and fit whatever pod you've debated basically everybody which I admire a lot some people call you Ben Shapiro of the left because you talk very fast and you're incredibly intelligent and by some people you mean the title you put on my YouTube video okay should have called him the destiny of the did you feel that was that all right cool well thank you so much for coming on man really appreciate it thanks for having me so the Ben Shapiro debate this is I feel like what everyone's been talking about it's highly anticipated we brought it up to you if you would debate Ben you said yes that clip went viral we brought it up to Ben when we had him on if he would debate you he said yes that clip went viral how did this all come about uh I'm kind of friendly friends friendly with Lex and I think I did a jubilee show and Jubilee asked me at the end could you film like a call out to Ben sh and maybe we could host it Lex saw that and Lex is like hey do you think I could get this debate and I love Jubilee but Lex is like the guy that would let me have a two to three hour uninterrupted conversation Jubilee will shoot three hours of content and they cut it down only 45 minutes um and I just feel like Lex's platform would have been really good for that so I was like well if you think you can get the debate then go for it and then Lex did a bunch of work in the background and he yeah got the debate was that hard to schedule with Ben probably but Lex said facilitated all of it were you nervous for the debate with Ben uh not particularly no how did you prepare for that did you just go in or did they give you topics to talk about and you could research them I think it was going to be a pretty broad conversation so we went over it must have been like 10 topics in like two hours and a lot of the Trump related stuff is more I'm just kind of like curious because it's such an easy topic on my end and such an indefensible topic on their end I'm just more Curious like how are you going to try to navigate this particular thing um but I've been doing a lot of political stuff for the past like four to six months now uh ever since I started viance and stopped talking to Red pillar so um yeah my brand has been pretty plugged in politically so felt like pretty okay to go on it yeah interesting you think that Trump stuff is indefensible yeah obviously yeah of course yeah easily huh I just think that like half of the nation well not half but a pretty what is it 40% approval rating for Trump um I know that the conservative approval rating is always very very very very high yeah my general thought is that I feel like it's somewhat defensible 40% of the general population is somewhat in support of something but that's beside the point we want to know for the Trump stuff I would just say most people just don't know the facts of anything that have happened so when you don't know the facts you think that like oh yeah well people are inditing him for no reason everybody hates him for no reason people say Ste the election for no reason they try to say there's an Insurrection for no reason but when you actually lay out all the facts then it's like okay o but if you go up against Ben Shapiro I mean his whole thing is like facts at least that's what he claims so don't think that he would at least have a different angle Trump trump a lot though took this is the funny part is that when you go to the people that know their defenses start to look in my opinion very wacky so Ben Shapiro's defense of trump was that he Graves him on a big curve so he gives him a lot of bway and that Trump would try to take over the government as a dictator which he tried to do but Ben feels like the guard rails are strong enough that he won't be able to do it even if he tries a second time so it's more of an admission than like most people will make I find that insane but yeah do you think Ben was the hardest debate you've ever had um probably not but not because he not because it was a dumb debate or not because he didn't know anything but just because the we it was just kind of like surface level on everything we kind of like hit topics um and then moved to the next one on kind of a surface level way so I'm sure if we had like a two or three hour conversation on like one or two topics it would be far more challenging yeah would you have prefer that to go deeper on each topic because I noticed it seems as though some of these topics are only like 10 15 minutes long they gave you a few minutes him a few minutes another few minutes between both of you and then it was on to the next there was a part where Ben was like here let me actually draw this out for you and he looks for like a pen and a piece of paper to be able to draw this line curve of job production between like Joe Biden and Donald Trump but then Lex was like all right we got to like take this back we're getting a little too granular yeah the um I would definitely prefer that but it's also like it's like a first conversation so you have to buy a little bit of trust with the other person um I think it was a I think it was a good conversation for a first conversation are you going to have another one hopefully we'll see there's nothing like planned right now though what's different when you debate Ben versus somebody else nothing I try to take a similar approach to everybody in that like there's a dynamic approach uh depending on the person that I'm talking to how radical or not radical they are how reasonable or not reasonable they are how much of a showman they are versus how much of a sick to the facts kind of person they are so Ben I'll have like a unique approach to Ben but it all stems out from like the same type of dynamic approach I like to everybody the one thing that you mentioned in that debate that I did notice and I noticed a lot of people doing this is you would make a point and they would counter that point by not addressing the point but saying well we shouldn't focus on this we should focus on all these other things how do you navigate something like that and get someone back to the point it seems like a lot of times they they'll avoid the point entirely well there are two different concepts you're talking about that sound similar but they're totally different uh in the in terms of policy that was the one that I was focused on with Ben and that I feel like sometimes conservatives will I I call it like the conservative marry go around or anytime you want to address a thing they want to address another thing or if you want to make an incremental change somewhere they'll say we can't do that incremental change because it doesn't fix everything so we should only focus on this and that's very frustrating to me so for instance you might say something like red flag laws for firearms the ability to flag people and say this guy's probably a danger maybe we should do something about it they'll say like oh well that doesn't fix gang violence so we shouldn't do this it's like okay or I think the examples that we were going through in that conversation were in schools think air conditioning and food availability are like two of like the easiest most datadriven help helpful things to children in school and that would be a thing that could help a little bit but Ben's point which is true is that well this is going to fix the schools like well of course not but it helps uh well we need to fix like families or whatever right and I feel like anytime you want focus on like a particular problem or try to help in a in an incremental way conservatives will hop back one or two steps go well it doesn't fix everything so we need to do this radical Society changing thing like enforcing shotgun marriages I think was his okay well this feels recommending shotgun marriages recommending but I will say that's different than in a debate when somebody won't ever address a point you're bringing up which I don't think Ben ever did that I don't think he like avoided addressing a particular Point what I thought was really interesting is it sounded honestly kind of like a therapy session of like two like like a wife and a husband that have been together for a super long time and they're having struggles in the relationship like you would say man I just feel like conservatives always do this they do the conservative marry go around and they don't attack the issues where they have the control and then Ben was like I feel like liberals always ignore the iceberg they're just focused on the thing that's above the water line when there's this whole massive problem underneath it and it was really funny just like the the difference in I don't know yeah the reality is you have to come at it from both ends but anytime you talk to somebody on the left or the right they only want to address their end and then vent their frustrations about the other end which is very frustrating so anytime you bring somebody a little bit over to the Middle where it's like yeah uh the family structure is incredibly important obviously for a whole bunch of different predictive things in society but also there's ingal changes you can make in schools too we can do both it doesn't have to be one or the other it can be both but people get really hung up on their particular thing who do you think won the debate um I don't know I mean like I said I don't think it was like a huge debate like I think we kind of like bounced through topics I don't think that we yeah resolutely concluded on a particular thing where it's like you're wrong about schools or you're wrong about Trump or you're wrong about whatever it was just kind of our different perspectives in terms of how we view those things what do you think Ben would say do you think he would say he won um I don't know maybe I'm not sure I feel like people on the left would probably just say you won people on the right would probably say you won um maybe yeah depends people some people on the left will say I won because my points were better on like Trump or something or they'll say I lost because I needed to push him way harder on other things and I'm sure there are people on the right that say oh Ben crushed him because he said the things that they agree with and there might be some people on the right who's like Ben didn't do as good because he should have crushed him on his points or whatever yeah you posted on Twitter yesterday that you finally dressed up for a podcast or interview and it was a photo of you and Jordan Peterson yeah I want to know how that conversation went was it more of a debate or a conversation that's not released yet because it was just filmed yesterday I'm assuming this is probably going to be released before that maybe we could get some teasers some teasers uh I didn't expect her to stand up we got into a physical fight about 45 minutes in which was crazy um it's hard to say who won exactly because no I'm just kidding the um it was definitely it went from like conversation to like debate to conversation to debate to conversation um I think I was pretty happy with the LEL of combativeness he seems like somebody that's able to ratchet it up and then kind of like bring it back a little bit and not be completely unhinged I'll say there was like a 30 minute section on climate change which I wish I could have been more prepared for cuz I was not ready for it to be a debate on climate change he asked me for an example of like uh like in capitalism have youever do you know what an externality is yeah okay so in um when you're trying to deal with a policy uh you might do a particular thing or there be a thing that happens and there's an external effect that's not accounted for in your system so like pollution in my opinion that's like the go-to good example of an externality right if you pollute a ton you don't have to pay for it so that's external to your system and it's not factored into the cost and as soon as I brought that up as an example like oh here's an externality where government can help sometimes then it was like okay well the WF and they're trying to make a seed bugs and Bill Gates and billionaires and the global Elite and the UN are all trying to do this I'm like oh Jesus and then we did like a 30- minute thing on climate change so yeah why does he go from pollution to the world economic forum and all these other play like what is their involvement in that as Graham and I definitely know and you may know too that running a business is incredibly challenging and trying to stay organized with a bunch of different spreadsheets and softwares can oftentimes end up taking more energy than what it's worth but with today's sponsor net site all you have to do is remember these three numbers 37,000 25 and 1 37,000 because that's how many companies have switched to netw suite and stop doing things like typing in manual data entry and searching throughout scattered information 25 because net weed to spent 25 years helping businesses drive 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interesting it seems like crickets are a good source of protein you could feed a lot of people you disagree no I just you're going to get these people in your comment section now I feel like it's it's D it's it's not controversial it's like this seems like a I don't know about the Crickets can you elaborate CRI crickets are like the highest source of protein that you could get they reproduce what does that have to do with WF I don't quite know want to eat bugs yeah I I guess they're they're like Bill Gates and the WF and this is like some highlevel I I I don't quite know is seeming to think that we should force people to eat bugs because and that way you'll own nothing and be happy but it's a way it's a way that you could feed the planet the amount uh of waste that me from cows exactly from cows or raising meat is so absurdly high but you but you need that for certain vitamins and proteins and you get the same thing with crickets for a fraction of the cost you could grow crickets anywhere they reproduce very quickly um I guess it's the idea but we haven't tried this on large scale yet you know what I mean like what if we start having these crazy Cricket colonies and they start gaining intelligence and then take over the human we just don't know I don't know I think if you want to solve a lot of hunger it's probably crickets it's probably insects I think people are going to say like come up with like a class problem you know what with that like the people on the bottom are just like you know Cricket crickets the top get like look at Lobster though Lobster used to be like the the Cockroach of the sea Lobster did not used to be the culinary luxury that now going to delicacy they could be we don't know this but Lobster is now a delicacy and beforehand it would be like e you eat lobster that's like for peasants I'm saying a lot of things have changed interesting but what but what are your thoughts on that this is where I'm at right now for political stuff I think that um probably it's probably true for everything actually but you know how you might have like 10 or 15 different beliefs you might think a thing about climate change you might think a thing about vaccines you might think a thing about the presidency uh I think people like to have this idea that they have rational justifications for all of their different beliefs but I think what actually happens is I think there's like constellations of belief systems and I think you just inherit these from whatever social group you're in and when you go into that social group and you inherit the constellation of beliefs all of these beliefs kind of sort of implicitly rest on every other belief and it's not really changeable because if you pull out like one thing it's like a Jenga Tower it all collapses so when you talk to somebody Unfortunately today about a particular subject because of how homogeneous and how huge these like political groups have gotten I think you can make a lot of predictions about things that they believe about other things and it all just kind of goes together so if I ask you for instance about uh what do you think about Andrew Tate if you think that in Romania if you think that the charges are trumped up and it's not fair what they're doing to Andrew Tate you probably also believe that the WF is trying to control your life you probably also think the UN is like a corrupt organization you probably think that we should support Russia over Ukraine in the war you probably support of Donald Trump you probably think the Mna vaccines were rushed and are making us unhealthy you Pro like there's like you probably think like trans people are fake there's like 20 different beliefs that like everybody inherits just on their social groups and that's how I feel about so when climate change comes up well see this is the ruling Global Elite billionaire class that's trying to force us to they'll quote that one article uh own nothing and be happy R our society they all want to crickets yeah CL Schwab oh don't even get me started right it's always yeah it's always that type of thing I think yeah that's really interesting Chris Williamson brought this up when we collaborated with him but he said if he knows about three things about a person in their ideology and then he can pinpoint every other ideology he doesn't really respect them he feels like they they're looking at at life through an ideological lens rather than as an independent thinker which I kind of agree true how dangerous is it when you notice yourself slipping into these I guess ideologies um and how do you prevent that so I wouldn't say I lose respect for people I think it depends on the kind of person you are I think there's something that's really really important to keep in mind there's a couple of important things is one we live in Worlds where you need some sort of like ideological congruency with the people around you or else you can't survive right so for me and you can probably find me saying this I'll say things like similar to what Chris Williams says like I shouldn't be able to predict every single belief you have based on two tweets that's [ __ ] pathetic okay am my opinion but I'll say that but then also I'm not surrounded by a whole bunch of people that are kind of enforcing that ideological homogeneity like what if it was the case that I've got really strong opinions about Israel Palestine that are probably out of sync with a lot of younger people today well if I was going to school and I was 21 would I want to make those opinions known like what if that means losing half my friend group and you can't lose half a friend group you probably lose your whole friend group cuz now people make choice on who to hang out out with and the the decision for an individual in like a social group that requires some level of cohesion that's going to be a really difficult decision to make so I'm understanding of people that you know kind of have Biance to their social groups and need to believe certain things to maintain membership with those social groups I'm sympathetic towards it the less sympathy happens when I'm talking to like YouTubers or political figures I don't like partisan people or people that have a strict adherence to a particular ideology in the face of all other things uh and all like data or evidence so like for instance like I don't think it's about to support political figures I think that's fine but let's say tomorrow the most 100% rigorous fact-f finded factual everything about this study it was just true you knew it was true if you read it and it says that like socialism is the best way to organize Society okay personally I'm a capitalist but if that stud came out okay well [ __ ] it I guess I'm a socialist if it really is the best thing that's fine but if you take somebody who's really smart in my opinion Beno is really smart but he's a conservative pundit there's no way that he can ever make any concessions towards that particular thing because his audience are all conservative he going to lose his paycheck his money his business all of his employees livelihoods will be threatened um yeah that's yeah so when it comes to people that are partisan I think that I'm sympathetic towards individuals but when it comes to larger figures I'm less sympathetic because I feel like you guys are getting paid big bucks to do this particular stuff you should be a little bit more Fearless when it comes to exploring kind of the edges of your ideology or pushing out other ideologies and you know that's really interesting and I also want to be sure that everyone here knows I I'm not quoting him directly when he says he loses respect for people when he can pinpoint all their beliefs based off of three you were saying that you don't think Ben would alter his opinion because he's motivated by profit to think a certain way or there's a bit of audience capture there because he's like the conservative guy right yeah he is the conservative guy yes um but even if facts came out that disproved everything he was saying they are objective axiomatic facts he would not change his opinion I want to know if you think that means that Ben is a bad faith political pundit bad faith is on a spe there's a spectrum of bad faith I think um I would say that anybody that is like ideological partisan has some adherence to that political ideology and there might be some level of bad faith um but I mean it's going to depend on how you Flex it so for instance I might talk to some conservatives that they will bury their head in the sand when it comes to anything that Donald Trump has done that's the norm for conservatives Ben will at least acknowledge it all but then in my opinion if I would to say he would be bad faith in any way I would say that the excuses that he makes for Trump are way out there that he would never make for somebody on the left so if Biden were to say like oh I'm going to tell you know kamla Harris to change the election results or I'm going to call all these states and say hey guys you need to change your uh Electoral College votes uh you know I think it would be over I think Ben would say like this is obviously one of the most corrupt things I've ever seen in my entire life I think he's actually said that about like about Hunter Biden you know in comments relating to Hunter and Joe Biden and it's like okay well why are you so quiet on like Kushner you know Penning $2 billion deals with the Saudis after his place in government that in an office that Trump created for him by the way like Joe um you know Joe Biden son Hunter about it isn't even involved in government like I feel like there's a lot of double standards at play there and I think it comes down to political ideology in my opinion but to say that Ben is bad faith I mean there's it's all in a spectrum I would say yeah and what about Jordan Peterson um I feel like Jordan Peterson is in the constellation of beliefs and he's very much up there and out there that's my feeling yeah but um yeah we we argued quite a bit I think on vaccines I think on global warming on yeah it's out there yeah now why do you think that each side needs a common enemy you mentioned that on Chris Williamson that it helps to unite people to say this guy's bad and we could all gear up together and say that person is uh causing all of our problems I just I think when you are being attacked by somebody just brings people together it's you have a common enemy you all feel like you've got a common struggle you've got a common purpose you can unite against something you have got something in common to hate uh I don't know why but for humans that's just a really unifying thing and what if there's no one to hate do they find somebody do they find something to dislike about a person maybe turn on each other I'm not sure I think people do generally need something like Chris Williams says we keep bringing them up run away from something as well as running to something it's like hating a certain group but also loving another certain group maybe yeah what is your favorite debate that you participated in so we actually use AI on every single episode of the iced coffee hour and it might actually be the most important new computer technology out there it's storming every industry and literally billions of dollars are being invested so buckle up the problem though is that AI needs a lot of speed and processing power so how are you able to compete without cost spiraling out of control thanks to our sponsor Oracle it's time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud Oracle Cloud infrastructure or oci for short oci is a single platform for your infrastructure database application development and AI needs oci offers four to eight times the bandwidth of other competing clouds offers one consistent price rather than variable Regional pricing and of course Nobody Does it Better Than Oracle so so now you can train your AI models at twice the speed and at less than half the cost of other clouds take a free test drive of oci at oracle.com isted that's oracle.com sisted and again to reiterate it's free so you can get started today oracle.com with the link Down Below in the description thank you so much and now let's get back to the episode what is your favorite debate that you participated in O my favorite debate that I participated in um I really like things where if I do a lot of research and I acquire a lot of knowledge it's fun so Ukraine Russia debates against I think I think probably the most in-depth one I might have had was against Nick ventes I think that was a good debate because I did a lot of research for that um I did a lot of research for like Mr vaccines and and covid stuff so those debates were pretty fun I've done recently like a lot of Israel Palestine research um at the end of the month I pretty sure I'm having a two on two debate where one of my opponents is uh Norman finlin for another Israel palese thing that Lex is going to set up and I'm looking forward to that I think doing it with Ben because I saw Lex's tweet where he like all the people in Israel all the people in Palestine I will be doing it with Ben not Ben Shapiro Ben Morris okay but um yeah I don't think me and Ben are not going to be super aligned on on that in-depth of a conversation about Israel Palestine I think broadly speaking we're going to be on the same side if you're like a pro Palestinian person but I have very very very harsh criticisms to Israel they're just not going to come up unless you're really in the Weeds on stuff yeah who do you feel like is the most influential person on the left and the right oh man I feel like it's so like bubbled off like it depends on what part of the internet you're on Like You could argue that I'm pretty influential in terms of like political left debating people but depending on where you go people have never heard of me or even like C or anybody so I don't know broadly speaking who is the most influential on the left I feel like we just don't have much really big alternative media on the left right now it's really not like on the right you I would say bencho is probably the largest and most influential or Tucker tuer definitely was on Fox News I feel like he's lost a lot of influence after I don't know on on Twitter t or on X now the amount of views he's getting seems to be substantial we could argue he's doing pretty good views right now does he do do you know like what his last video was yeah look it up they're usually in the millions oh not usually they they vary depends heavily I guess in the left The Young Turks but that's not even like if you look at their views I um tuer Carlson one day ago 260 one day 415 two days 440 so on Foxy's getting here's a million definitely popular but I like I would say six months ago Tucker was the most popular maybe media person in the world definitely the most popular most consumed yeah they had the most live concurrent viewers on Fox News Fox I think at five with Tucker yeah I'm pretty sure he was the most part in the world so he's still big I'm not saying he's like nobody now but I'm saying he had he took a dramatic fall off a cliff when he got kicked off of fox and you got to be careful with the Twitter viewers because I think you realize um right it's like if you watch a video for six seconds it and it's not an accurate way of determining how popular person is yeah so why don't you feel like the left has more represent presentation like the right does um man I don't know the center left is like just not a fun place to be nobody really likes you you have to fight conservatives will hate you just as much whether you're Center left or a communist and if you're Center left everybody online is going to hate you because the only people online are the farle and those guys are [ __ ] insane so why is nobody big on the farle why don't we have lar are losers they're crazy and it's a super minority opinion these guys are the most detached they're all like millionaire socialist tanky [ __ ] who like cheer with like Israeli babies are killed like they're actually [ __ ] insane they're unhinged so when where is the majority on the left uh like in the real world it's probably like Center left but like those people aren't online like you don't find like black people between the ages of like 45 and 65 like aren't on Twitter or like Center left you know uh like Cosmopolitan liberals and [ __ ] aren't really on like Twitter anymore it's like young white affluent very very farle in college kids these are the people that dominate social media I think these days so what's the difference between that and people on the far right like why are those people on the internet I'm trying to figure out like what the commonalities the far right far right I feel like aren't super on the internet at least now sometimes but why are they the personalities that Garner so many views it's different and it's weird but like I would say I would say that like for the far left I think this is a very very very small minority of all Democrats like less than less than like 3 or 4% if that it's very very very small minority but on the right I would argue that like for radical right feel like really M I think that any anybody that supports Donald Trump I think is [ __ ] crazy and that's like 85% of Republicans right now so they're way more visible you see a lot more of them but because a lot of them are literally ready to follow Trump off a cliff uh yeah they they just are are louder on the internet yeah there is no like I guess I'm complaining about being a center left Democrat truly being a center right Republican is probably a more difficult place to inhabit I would imagine I would say it's difficult for us too because we like to really have equal representation on the podcast and it's difficult for us to find people on the left to have on because there aren't that many and the people that we do ask it's very difficult to get them to say yes they've denied us a lot yes and then some people like we ended up getting them on but it took months of scheduling whereas the people on the right they're kind of like yeah let's do it yeah why is that do you have any idea I think right now I think when the left is kind of more in charge of like overall the media and they don't feel the pressure to be platformed because they are platformed they probably don't want to jump on to controversial or debate platforms as much CU there's lose and their own audiences will attack them quite a bit for it like oh you're supporting them why you there they platform this guy or why are you in this show you know my from fresh and fit was just there like these guys are white nationalists these guys are red pill blah blah blah so it's it's harder because people on the left will hardcore audit you for uh going on places that they don't approve or talking to people that they don't like one thing that I've always found it really hard to Grapple with is you think that if anybody supports Donald Trump they're pretty much insane yeah but that is still a significantly large population of a veloped country of the United States pretty czy so how do you not have this like shadow of a doubt at least in your opinion of like okay if so many people and within this group of people there are extremely intelligent people they're very thoughtful people they are very charitable people they're are very like open-minded people me some and I'll show on this podcast we talk to him I don't believe that there are very there are very intelligent people that support Donald Trump but they do it with their head in the sand or if somebody were to say something like listen okay yeah Donald Trump is all these things but like the tax cuts are good and I like the economy a little bit cuz he like tries to deregulate stuff okay fine but here's the thing South Park did a great episode where you have like a turd sandwich and like a piece of diarrhea I don't know and you have to choose between the turd sandwich and the diarrhea if you have Trump and someone else I'm just I'm just giving an example here and you don't like as someone else doesn't that then by default you're going with Trump does that make yeah but that's only if you're dumb enough to think that your choices are two things that are essentially the same like I said I understand why some people support Trump like when I say that they're crazy I don't necessarily mean like in a malevolent kind of way or I'm sorry malicious kind of way usually they just don't know anything so they like Trump because he like owns the left like because anytime because people say this like oh well the both parties are the exact same thing like no they're not like you're rich if you think that you're you're wealthy and you're stupid and you're disconnected if you actually think that both parties stand for the same thing they clearly don't right abortion or Supreme Court Justice piics are a really big example of that or support for like samesex marriages are a big example of that the difference in the types of legislations that both people have passed is a huge example of that the different approaches to foreign policy are a huge example of that like these the two parties are very very very different in terms of what they stand for and represent the only way you can think they're the same is if you just don't follow it much or if you're pretty wealthy and insulated you don't really care that much you just like whoever's the funniest on Twitter yeah it it seems as though a lot of people will look if it if it comes between Trump and Biden people that like Biden and like the policies but worry that his age is getting in the way and say well between the two of them I you know I might pick Trump just because the alternative is something that I think might be slightly worse yeah I yeah I just I like I said find me one of those people and we can hash it out it's just so not even close to True okay there's I know there's such a large contingent of people that feel they don't know what they're talking about I just I just can't bring them in front of me give me 10 of them you could send people with 10 in the room every single time I talk to these people it's always the exact same thing like why do you like Trump over Biden well Trump did way better with the econ what did Trump do for the economy uh tax cuts how did that help you do you even do your own taxes you make like $24,000 a year you save me more money than you you [ __ ] [ __ ] I actually sa more money on my tax than you grossed an income because of your president who's a billionaire from New York and this is the guy that represents you like none of it actually makes sense I'm sorry no I'm just saying listen when I talk to the people it's always the same [ __ ] talking points over and over again they have no [ __ ] idea about anything they're talking about they like Trump because he's funny because he represents a real anger that people have towards the system and they want to break [ __ ] and Trump is the guy saying I'll break it for you and that's it that's that's the extent of the support for trump it doesn't go deeper than that ever there's no policy analysis ever there's no foreign policy analys ever there there's no like what did Trump actually tried to do to get reelected nobody even knows about like any of the j6 stuff or the elector fraudulent scheme or the pressure on the doj saying he was going to fire one of them if they didn't write fake letters to uh State assemblies like nobody knows any of these things they just like Trump cuz he's funny and he's but that means he's playing a better social game so at what point does that need to be acknowledged that he is somehow appealing to people's innate uh feelings of you know wanting to join him yeah I mean I well there's two things well one is it might end him in federal prison so I mean depending because he maybe play the game a little bit too much or two um people need to do a better job on the left of representing their and it can't be you know average age 72y old white guy that goes on TV to talk to people they have to do a better job getting I hate to say it like I'm not a fan of Nome but he does a good job on the left absolutely holy Jesus I saw him do a couple like damn yeah he is amazing now I wouldn't be surprised if he runs for president and he becomes the president because he has amazing people skills incredible debate skills he's confident he is sharp you know again it's like I'm not I'm not a fan based on what I've seen in California but this guy has something really special that I think will appeal to those people yeah and I don't think anybody's gonna make the mistake again not in in in in the soon to be future of trying to run a candidate that's not like people tested because oh my God I saw this you can find my stream and I joke I joke when I said it I didn't have like a strong opinion at the time but I remember the very first time I saw dantz walk into like a store and talk to me I was like this guy's never going to be president there's no shot he is so awkward so you know mumbly with his feet and like any and he's just this is not it and yeah I think as time has gone on I think it hasn't been it and is like a non well now he suspended his campaign right so I mean like but how do you see Dan santis and come to that conclusion but at the same time you have Joe Biden I feel like he can't even like walk off a stage without five handlers helping him it's not a matter of walk off the stage it's a matter of like do you have like I don't know how to explain this like presidential energy presidential energy Biden has it he talks he's been a senator for a long time the way that he talks and can talk to a crowd and smile at people and talk to people I don't know why but like uh desan just has has this energy of like gu insecurity I don't know what it is it's just the way that he carries himself and speaks he just comes off as like very wimpy kind of yeah wimp yeah it doesn't really have to do with how scile or not scile you are like some people just kind of come off that way I'm not sure why it's like a Vibe thing you know yeah I don't know like in conclusion the way that I see it is whenever I find myself in some sort of belief or having a belief system and then there's this massive opposition I usually try to eek somewhere closer to the middle because I know that I'm probably wearing like an ideological onesie as well as the other side and still massive populations on both sides and both sides have people within that population that are super intelligent super deep thinkers etc etc yeah I agree I think it's always a red flag if you find yourself standing against a huge opposition um especially in a developed Nation like the United States where like there's you know democratized information so I mean one of the ways to test that if you're really scared is well go and talk to people talk to a lot of them uh I feel like I can represent their arguments really well better than most of them can do it uh if you again you can find me T of them put me in a room with them and we'll yeah we'll have the arguments I've done it over and over and over again and on the facts it just yeah fails time and time again do you recommend people listen to political commentators that lean right you should always be receptive to opposing viewpoints I don't like almost any alternative media I just I don't know I think most of is trash but so you wouldn't recommend it I don't listen to anybody on the right or left either like most alternative media is just trash but you're on the left yeah I'm a special boy listen to me so you're the you're the one excep I feel like that's another example of you being this Fringe exception where this massive population of other people on the left and on the right or even in the center what can I sayone of I'm a cool guy you know um here are things that I like about myself and if other people did them I would say watch them there might be people able to do this they might be out there and I'm just not aware of them okay um one I don't have a rigid adherence to a certain political ideology I have my political ideology which I could be biased towards sometimes I admit that I'm not a [ __ ] perfect person but like there are going to be things that the Democrats or progressist do that I think are [ __ ] stupid and I'm going to side more with I don't even say I'm siding with Republican buts have strong inclinations towards this wayway um and the reason why is because I have a personal set of beliefs and when a new situation is presented towards me you're going to get my take on things when you turn on my stream and I think everybody now who's familiar with me knows this if you're turning on my stream you're getting what a Steven bonell think about this particular issue if I turn on say like Hassan stream I'm getting like w do progresses or far left people think about this issue or if I turn on uh you know like Steven Crowder's YouTube channel I'm getting what do like these kind of like right magga people think about this but it's not really like a unique consideration of the facts and then a filtering through their own personal you know like moral or philosophical lens and then how do they think about things at the end of the day I would say that's evidenced by the fact that I have like a variety of opinions that I get in trouble with on the left and the right um so for instance like I think that written house is totally in the right I think that um there's good criticism of like a lot of the trans youth stuff um that doesn't mean I'm fully against it um like I can be yeah there's a lot of things Israel palestine's also a little bit kind of oh true I massive big di for Zionism okay totally [ __ ] 100% yeah although I would be critical of Israel on a lot of things as well but like yeah definitely come out sport of that um but then like I fall very far left on some things um however I would say it can be deceptive though when people say they're on the center because theyve got left and right beliefs because some people will say that but in reality when you go to analyze their beliefs they're actually just like anti-disestablishment or dis or or or establishment so like I would say that people like um uh Tim p is a friendly guy but when somebody like that says like oh I'm you know I'm not on the left or the right or I'm even like Center left or I'm more like a Centrist when you look at their beliefs actually they are is anything that has to do with the establishment so anything related to pharmaceutical companies big business government they're against all of that um although in favor of like every other like whatever stands in opposition to that um yeah so I I guess like find people that you feel like have unique or interesting points of view that don't always have to be like politically aligned they don't feel a pressure to be politically aligned with one thing all the time I personally maybe it's unreasonable because I'm a streamer so I have like a different thing than what I would expect YouTuber to do but I stream like all of my research and reading like you can see what I read you can see what I'm researching you can see me putting together my opinions as I'm like I take notes I publish the notes that I take on everything and I show you what I'm you know looking up uh I think that helps too so you can see how I arrive at my particular belief which helps um yeah I don't know it's I understand what you're saying in terms of like it's hard to think that you're like anytime you think you're unique in a certain way statistics would prove yeah of course yeah uh that is a good istic what you're saying like if I was listening to me say this and I was across table I'd probably think like okay well you're probably full of [ __ ] and you just don't realize it but you think you're unique for this particular way which I understand um but yeah I mean I stream all my stuff I've made it to this point in my career if you want to test it on anything like I said I'll argue with anybody on the facts on the morals and the whatever and I feel like I can make a good argument for what I do yeah MH yeah I just I just don't like it when I have super high conviction on something that's just obviously controversial kind of reminds me of the thing that your mother told you don't be so openminded your brain falls out in a sense it's like just don't allow myself to have super high conviction on certain things like that but it could be a double-edged sword uh one thing I do appreciate is a lot of people I feel like similar to what you'd probably argue for Ben Shapiro is now people have this expectation of he needs to have this ideology so he's financially incentivized to have this ideology um so you know he can interpret data in like you know what you would probably claim as an objectively incorrect way but one thing that you've done and I think you talked about this last time we had you on was you have taken stances you knew would piss off your audience um just because you found it right so financially punished for seeking truth yeah I would say that I one thing that I wonder because I'm trying to um when I'm trying to think of I'm being fair I trying to put myself in the other person's position um I wonder if I would feel differently if I had a company of people that were all relying on myal opinion so like if Ben Shapiro really if that study for socialism did come out Ben's like you know what I am a socialist now um say that negatively impacts I don't know how many employees are the daily wi say like 40 50 60 full-time employees that are negatively impacted hundreds for fulltime W2 fulltime employ yeah so if it was in like the hundreds of employees maybe would you feel differently about that but but actually I don't think I would I think I would just tell people when I hire you like this is what you're signing up for good luck change my opinion moment's notice like to think that they would still be able to survive as a profitable company even if they change their complete narrative that's what I like to think yeah that's another thing too is that like after you I mean when you made so much money after a point it's like I'm not like oh God like I'm only going to make 80,000 this month instead 150,000 like I don't know if I can handle this hit like I'm like I'm my lifestyle is the exact same I mean you see the clothes I wear I drop my $40,000 Focus RS I've got a nice apartment that I pay like 5,000 a month for but like other than that I don't need like a ton of money for anything so yeah do you think the American dream is dead no of course not if you're poor in America today you have no dependence no disability no cognitive or physical and you're between the ages of 20 and 60 is it your fault if you're poor fault is a really loaded word like I mean the answer is always yes to no at the same time like there's probably steps that you can take to do better but there's probably reasons why you've taken the steps that you've had taken so I mean yeah I don't know that's a hard I that's such a reductionist like if you find like a person who's 20 years old and obese is that their fault I mean like kind of they're choosing to eat the food that they eat but like what if this person was obese at like 8 years old it's like 1% of people ever make it that's probably a cognitive disability at that point or they just had kind of parents that like set them up for failure so if it's like morbidly obese then it could be a physical disability which we disincluded in this so it's like no I'm not saying morbidly obes I'm just saying like obesity I like obesity as a lens for this because it's very like that's a very clear like just eat less and exercise more eat healthier exercise more those are things that every single person has theoretically 100% control over but even though we have control over that 100% clearly it's influenced from our childhood right like if you take a behavior and you say like oh every single person can make a choice on this every single day it's like okay well that's one you agree with that right that every single person can every day make a choice to eat or exercise right basically assuming no disabilities right but if that was really true then you would expect to see uh smattering it would basically be random for what everybody's weight and physical health would be in terms of um obesity right but it's not random chances are if your parents are obese you're probably obese chances are if you were obese as a child you're probably obese as an adult chances are if your parents instilled these habits you know you probably carry these habits with you through uh adolescence into adulthood so a lot of stuff that's like your fault is kind of your fault but it's also because of the way you were raised so it's just good to have a realistic perspective on there are certain behaviors that you might have that came from childhood and is your it's within your power to change them but like they came from somewhere so you have to like work to accept that and then change it at the same time if that makes sense it does make sense so you were saying that there are some exceptions um once we bar out the certain things that I had mentioned that we barred out uh the cognitive and physical disabilities and no dependence and stuff like that that there still will be exceptions um of those exceptions whose fault do you think it is then that they're poor instead of looking at it as as fault you should just look at as every single person's 100% responsibility for themselves yeah so regardless of who's at fault it is your responsibility only your responsibility to improve yourself as much as you can now there might have been things in your childhood that put you on a bad path that [ __ ] you up and you know whose fault it is is you know is debatable or arguable but it's your responsibility to change it now the only time I would say that fault is important in determining how H this is a we we can go over specific examples we can talk about this for a long time but sometimes ascribing blame or fault is important because if you're really really really far off the norm sometimes it can be the problem is you have to be careful it can either be really owering to to ascribe fault or blame or it could be really disempowering to ascribe fault or blame you just have to go through that process in a very careful way I don't think you should be ignorant of fault because I still think that is important like you just alluded to like two minutes ago that you need to see it through a real transparent lens like you need to be experiencing reality for what it is but I don't think that you should put a bunch of weight in fault I think you should probably be a A Ware that there might be some culpability from somebody somewhere but it is ultimately the productive thing is whose responsibility is it it's mine yeah a lot of people want to figure out the root cause of something and if in that case of if they're obese here's why I'm obese here's what I was taught as a kid and because of that I am where I am today and because I understand this I could better you know fix this going forward okay only in those circumstances I think is it good but people have a really hard time doing that or it feels like it so here this is what I like to hear if somebody says this okay let's say somebody says oh I have XYZ condition okay therefore I do this thing I think that's really positive and really good but often what I'll hear is oh well I do this thing because I have this condition um we sound the same but like say somebody says I have um H [ __ ] OCD sure we say I'm I'll make some [ __ ] up about let's say somebody says I have OCD I can't handle pink things or blue things okay therefore in my house I've gotten rid of every pink and blue thing so it doesn't mess with ever right that's cool but instead I usually hear the reverse where somebody will be out and they'll be going crazy and they'll be hitting and like oh my God what's going on like oh well I have OCD that's why I do all this and I like okay instead of using like the when they do like this fault analysis instead of using it as like a like a diagnosis that they can then try to fix their life with instead they learn this thing and now it's like oh thank God I've got this new crush that I can just throw out whenever I act improperly or whenever I like [ __ ] my life up and I'd rather see people if you analyze the you understand it use that understanding to build off of it and then either remediate it or you know find a way to avoid whatever triggers you or find a way to fix or cure whatever is going on rather than now that I've identified this oh now I never have to oh I've got you know XYZ condition that's why I'm like such a piece of [ __ ] all the time hahaa and then like that's it yeah I agree I think you should frame your belief system in such a way that makes you better off at the end of the day and what you're alluding to right here is better off in so far as you're using it to explain something and you're using it in a productive way to like actually make a measurable positive impact on your life such as removing those things from your house yeah rather than saying that you're a victim and then just having in action and continuing to suffer yeah so what uh What uh advice would you give to those people who maybe have something that they feel is holding them back they could place blame they could place fault on something how do you overcome that I mean like H it it's I I think I feel like I need to talk to the person it it's just it's so it's so individual um here's like two different things that I see okay sometimes there are people that take no responsibility for themselves and then they'll identify a thing and then when they they identify that thing like oh this is why um I'm such a piece of [ __ ] this is why I'm so lazy and then anytime anybody comes and tries to say like hey like don't you think you should do this I'm like oh I can't I've got this thing and it's like okay well shouldn't you do something about that like no it's like okay so if if you find that you use your past as like an excuse to never do anything um or you you have some conditioner thing and you're using it as an excuse to never do anything uh I mean you're just kind of like a piece of [ __ ] like that I mean yeah your life is going to be worse off for it it's not helping you it's not nobody else is giving you credit for this like nobody ever thinks like oh you know there's this guy and I used to think he was like a really lazy piece of [ __ ] but then I found out he had this condition so now I like totally like nobody thinks that that's stupid um but on the other end of it sometimes too you've got people who are they they try to push forward too much and they won't actually stop and think like Hey listen you have a thing that you really need to address really need to understand this thing and do something about this because it's holding you back and just pretending that it's not there and pretending it's not having a negative effect on you is actually hurting you because you won't come to terms with it first so yeah there those are like the opposite on that spectrum and both people need to move in totally opposite directions but also sometimes I think people these two people will switch themselves a lot too um which it just that's why I'm saying like it's very individualized um for a long time I had uh I think it was like seven years ago my son got diagnosed with ADHD and got a medication for it and everything and my community is always Meed about me having it and blah blah blah and I think I was the person at the one end of the spectrum where it's like listen Okay my brain works I can sit and I concentrate blah blah blah I'm just kind of like a lazy piece of [ __ ] I can do this okay um and my God it took me I think it was like four or five months ago I had a friend who suggested like hey like I have ader all you should try some like [ __ ] it for the first time of my life I was like holy [ __ ] okay maybe I actually have ADHD I'm going to go [ __ ] get a prescription and we'll see blah blah blah and the past four months of my life have been unbelievably different my entire earlier light I can [ __ ] believe it we could go on this adoral conversation for hours I had the very similar experience suffered I figured I had HD my entire life it's been in my family it was in my family too yeah because yeah was when my son guy noed a very high heritability and then I started looking back like oh man maybe this why my parents are late to every [ __ ] thing we ever late to everything also I remember one very distinct memory I was taking piano lessons and my teacher rather than fixing your notes fixing your posture fixing fixing all these things to improve your piano playing he said the number one lesson in all caps underline underline underline Focus yeah I just never my entire life how do you know if you have ADHD okay so with most mental illness or most neurodevelopmental things uh there's everybody has some degree of everything uh I don't know if you're like on the border I don't know what to tell you or I don't know how to help you figure it out um obviously you should go to a professional you can get an assessment they do a lot of like big neurocognitive testing if you're looking to like really know uh or just go to a psychiatrist or therapist and get like a a less formal assessment whether do like a questionnaire uh in my opinion for me growing up through childhood there were a lot a very very very obvious example so like when it came to standardized testing and stuff like uh I think we did the itbs was IO Test of Basic Skills um my scores were always very very very high like 998th 99th percentile on all of these tests my ACT scores were very good I think I got 35 and um my inclass work my GPA was like 2.7 and that was like in all AP classes so this was curved up a lot uh and my GPA was horrible I could not focus to do homework to save my [ __ ] life okay I remember I would get math times I I would cry because I don't want to sit and do it not because it was hard it was the idea of like sitting and doing anything ever was just [ __ ] agonizing it was horrible um and there were I was the only kid in my entire grade whose parents had to sign my assignment notebook and the teacher had to sign it to make sure everybody knew what my homework was otherwise I just wouldn't do anything uh I would say that I was like exceptionally outside of the norm in a lot of different ways in terms of uh my ability to focus on things versus you know what theoretically should have been like my intellectual capacity to do things um yeah so medication for that has just basically made it so that like oh like um I can actually sit and read something for 46 hours and not hate my life to me that just seems like you weren't challenged in school like if you're scoring really high but you don't want to sit there and do the homework to me that's like you're you just seem bored I wouldn't think there are other indicators too like hyperactivity is another one so for example well with ADHD it's the like random like twitching that you always have like if you look at someone's hands and they're always like moving their hands or they're bouncing their knees and stuff like that that's the hyperactivity people can flate that with hyperactivity such as somebody who like runs around everywhere like a like golden retriever type personality it's actually all these mini like little Twitches that people have and order to like the re the reason why I hesitate on the hyperactivity thing it it can come out that way especially with the twitching and the fidgeting is ADHD at the end of the day is a disease of focus and it's how do you direct your attention um for some people when they can't direct their attention they become hyper because they just want to like run around especially boys like to run around and do physical things or whatever but at the end of the day it's like can you sit and focus on something that you don't ordinarily have the ability to because people with ADHD have a really hard time relating to uh like reward that's not instantaneous um because there's actually like parts of the brain that are neurodevelopmentally delayed like if you autopsy like an ADHD person there are certain parts in the forward part of the brain that are like it's anywhere from like 10 to 13% smaller than an ordinary person and what that means is for uh for a neurodevelopmentally healthy brain if you got to read something for four hours you can sit down and you can do it and you can read it because you know that you have to for someone with ADHD it is like an excruciatingly challenging task Because unless you're being like constantly rewarded with some stream of stuff to sit and actually focus on doing anything is like impossible that's lack of dopamine yeah and the the paradoxical kind of understanding of this or the way that it's kind of weird is that a lot of people say [ __ ] I hate these things I kill people to say [ __ ] like people say things like oh ADHD is a superpower and so like [ __ ] not a [ __ ] superpow that's so stupid but see people look at people ADHD and they'll talk about something called like hyperfocus all hyperfocus is is because ADHD Brands usually so starved for dopamine if you find something that rewards you regularly you will sit there and be [ __ ] glued to it because now you have something that's like making you feel like okay for the first time because your brain doesn't ordinarily produce dop at the levels it should that's why a lot of people ADH will sit and play like for a long time with my kid or for me I was like I'm a professional Starcraft 2 player I play starc 2 for 16 hours a day how the [ __ ] can I have ADHD well it's because this is like a game and it's boing me every single 10 seconds I'm getting like another [ __ ] hit and it feels good you know so what does adderal do exactly um the so what an amphetamine is supposed to do is there's two ways that you can basically hit these little neurons uh neurotransmitters in your brain um I think one is to prevent dopamine from coming out and want us to like push it and vacuum it back in I think what amphetamines do is they prevent the re-uptake of dopamine so it increases the amount of dopamine availability in your brain um methylphenidate so that would be like ryin or con conera Concerta um these things like prevent the stuff from like going out they basically work the problem from two different ends but at the end of the day the goal is just make it so you've got higher levels of dopamine and no epinephrine available in your brain which like makes you a little bit calmer a little bit more able to focus on things that ordinarily you wouldn't be able to focus on because you want to go and do something else and what was that like for you though what did it feel like like the first time trying it and then you realize wait a second maybe I do have ADHD for the well for I'll be totally honest for the first three days are just [ __ ] amphetamine High okay I like amphetamines I think they're fun I think I've done dexra amphetamine recreationally on accident in the past thought it was uh we'll just sa meth infomine basically um I thought I was getting MDMA I was in Amsterdam but um it was a fun time it was really nice I was just high for like 20 hours I don't know why and then I've done like MDM in the past so there's like I think there's a Euphoria associated with amphetamine so the first three days I was trying this Aderall adal XR I was definitely just high I can definitely feel how I was like what was the dosage uh I started well cuz my friend was on 20 milligrams of adal XR which probably high to start with uh but yeah for the first three days I was like [ __ ] high like this is cool but like I know I'm just High after day 3 and 4 when the Euphoria were off what I noticed was that like I could be on my computer and I could just read stuff and I was like interested I didn't have to keep rereading the same [ __ ] sentence over and over again and I could just sit and read and absorb the information and understand and talk about it for hours and hours hours without having to feel like I was being like sucked to my other screen that I had to like have a oh like so for instance like if you guys are watching in my stream I'm always like playing games and stuff I haven't played a video game I think in like four months because I just don't have the drive where it's like I need like something that's like making me feel good all the time I can just sit and read and focus on stuff we just so [ __ ] nice yeah this is going to you're going to hate this gr but this is the first time I've ever said this to you I recognized recently so I review every podcast before it goes out we have editors and then I kind of do the final combover recently what I've been doing because I it takes me hours to go through a two-hour podcast at 2x speed because I just pause it rewatch do this and that I just can't focus but if I play a video game while I'm reviewing it I can get through it so much faster similar to exactly what you do when you're researching doing this super super high deep research at the same time of playing a video game for I used to I used to but now I don't anymore I don't need to now that I'm like medicated for the past four months I don't need to have that video game in the background yeah so so I I have adoral prescribed but I take it very sparingly like I have a sporadic schedule because I I talked to my psychiatrist and he was like you know ideally you don't use it every single day which is always how I was caught up on it I thought that once you're prescribed you take it as a every single day to to supplement you basically but actually what it is is to make up like if you get a really bad night of sleep and the next day you need to perform some job or something like that you take it to bring to bring you back up effec crazy I completely disagree on every single part of that so this is something that we should probably talk about out outside podcast because I think it's we're getting pretty nuanced here on ad but this is something I mean since I was like 19 I've like had it I Quit cold turkey for three years not taking it at all realized my life was like way worse when I wasn't taking it period now I'm kind of like using it sparingly but that's another conversation works for you yeah yeah [ __ ] I wish I remember you had uh Derek I think on from more play more days and he was sanctioned I was getting super [ __ ] triggered but I think just really hard to tell like who actually has problems versus who's just like kind of lazy I think that's the way the way I look at it is how long have you had this issue have you had it your whole life no why does it seem so much more common now you see this these these things it's like ADHD is going up through the roof and it's overprescribed do you think it's because we're testing for this now and we could acknowledge what it is or do you think that people are misdiagnosed all the time I mean it's probably um it's probably overprescribed and underprescribed at the same time I think it probably just depends on the person I think it's it's like four or 5% of people have an adhc diagnosis I people think today that it's like 50 to 60% it's not that high like people think it's way higher than it actually is um but yeah I I don't know I'm uncomfortable Dr K answered this question did he yes he said that a lot of people and the same thing goes for actually autism these days but a lot of it is actually just autism by proxy and the same thing is ADHD by proxy because if you look at the way that we're actually spending our time it's just scrolling on Tik Tok or scrolling on Instagram reals and stuff like that and that lowers our uh dopamine I would fight to the death on this as well there's absolutely no research that connects ADHD to environmental factors like scrolling on screens or anything like that this is this is what Dr K said yeah here's the thing anecdotally I think there's definitely a correlation between Tik Tok scrolling and attention space increases people's like standard for like entertainment value Threshold at any given moment because they're so used to super high entertainment value and then it decreases the like basically everything else and makes it monotonous like what would you say to like a three-year-old kid or like a 2-year-old who's who's getting used to just like swiping swiping swiping and just scrolling it's like have understanding there's no research that connects any amount of but there so many the thing is there are so many distractions these days and I think that's what because people aren't productive because you have advertisements commercials Instagram all these there might be those distractions those but it doesn't change the the actual composition of your brain by proxy because people find themselves unproductive since they're constantly being distracted by all these different things sure but although and I the research on this is scarce cuz I think it's hard to do this but there's one study that I was familiar with where if you give amphetamines to people what they did was they I think they broke people into three or four groups um if you give amphetamines to people who don't have ADHD and then you ass assign them work uh people you give amphetamines to will do more work but they're not more productive the the quality of the work actually suffers and the funny thing between this particular uh study was it I think it broke into four groups the people that did the best when they were given the placebo meaning um no amphetamines and then you did their work and then when you gave them amphetamines they their performance was degraded they became the worst performers afterwards even though they didn't feel that way they actually felt like they were performing even better um probably because they were high in amphetamines and it feels good but when you track their the quality of the work could decrease so the idea that like if you just give amphetamines to everybody everybody will like become better I don't think it's actually empirically tested anywhere as much as it feels very counterintuitive and I'm not a proponent of that just to it seems like what you need to do is take two kids uh two twins put one of them on Tik Tok and one of them on a book and then test attention spans after like five years and see who has yeah MH but it it just even for myself I find myself falling into the trap at 33 if I scroll Tik Tok or Instagram reals for too long for too many days in a row I find myself it's harder to focus that following week after like there's a cool down period where I have yeah I definitely I understand what you're saying I and I don't necessarily disagree this is just I just have to put this out there for my for my fellow strugglers okay because it took me until I was 34 years old to finally get medication do this because I would fall into the Trap of saying like I'm probably just lazy I play too many video games I do this and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah but one thing that happens growing up and I don't know if if you felt this way is Graham you know what time of year it is tax season's coming up so you know we have a lot on our plate and if you run a solo small business you know about all of the different headaches that come with running your own company including things like taxes payroll and documentation 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just lazy I play too many video games I do this and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah but one thing that happens growing up and I don't know if you felt this way is when you complain about a certain thing everybody will kind of agree but they don't actually do that particular thing it's like a virt signal so I would say that when I was in high school easily I think I probably studied for 10 hours cumulatively through the entire four years I was in high school that might be an overshot I could never sit down and study but when you talk to other kids like oh like did you study for the test or blah blah blah people like oh no like I couldn't blah blah blah when a normal kid says are like oh no I don't think I could really study what they mean is they studied for like an hour Friday two hour Saturday and like only an hour Sunday that's what they meant when they would say that because we would get tests back and I'd be like oh I got like a 73 on my Cal [ __ ] paper and the kid next to me who did didn't study and couldn't bring himself got like a 94 and I'm like [ __ ] how'd you do this AG it's like oh man I think the last thing on Sunday like it just helped I like what do you mean the last how many [ __ ] days you study for this for right so there are definitely people that are just lazy or that complain or just want like a drug to fix things I understand that but there I think there are a group of people that have ADHD hopefully who their your brain is just it's really really really really really hard to stay focused on things holy [ __ ] and the problem is that if we are to believe the current state of ADHD research and if we are to believe that the researchers know what they're talking about if you have that type of brain you cannot ever ever ever ever ever self motivate it is impossible you don't have the neurochemical composition or the developmental structures that are grown enough to do it the only way to do it is to externalize all of the rewards so like a counterintuitive example for a kid that has ADHD you might think that like okay well I know he's got ADHD I'm going to be more patient with him so that he can do you know his work in a timely manner that's the opposite of what you're supposed to do you have to actually ride that kid harder you have to be like hey do this do this do this do this cuz when you constantly remind them that's the only way that they actually get it done because they can't internalize they like okay I know this sucks but like it'll just take 3 hours and I'll be done with it and that'll be fine it is impossible for a person with ADHD at a certain level to be able to do that ever yeah okay I'm done with my spill [ __ ] I'm sorry that's great I I want to keep talking about that we'll talk more about it afterwards because this is yeah that'd be a great conversation I Al last five seconds the only other reason I bring that last thing too is because amphetamines are really really really really really really really really really awesome mind drug and that like when you take people with depression and you give them like ssris bro that's a whole [ __ ] like one month period of like titrating up in Doses and you don't even know it's going to [ __ ] work and you might want to [ __ ] kill you some and blah blah blah whereas if you have ADHD and you get like an amphetamine you'll know the next day or three days like if it's good or bad there's not this ramp up and ramp down and like oh I just got off my ADHD B so I'm going to be like for a month like yeah that's my lash B okay you have ADH go get tested sorry I'm done all right real quick yeah Ben she out just to to so Chris Williamson to ascribe some definitions what is the difference between a leftist a liberal and a progressive a liberal broadly speaking the worldwide definition of like liberal is just somebody that believes in like uh like the Bill of Rights so you think that you should have like some freedom of speech freedom of religion uh private property rights you're probably a capitalist in the United States more specifically uh a liberal as a Democrat but like on the rest of the world they would say well conservatives and liberals in the United States are liberals broadly speaking because we all believe like in liberalism um so those are kind of like the two different definitions of liberal liberalism though yeah is in top level they just definition well like when somebody says liberal they usually just mean like Democratic capitalist person broadly speaking like worldwide that's what a liberal is in the United States liberal just means Democrat does that make sense yes and you said that that means someone who usually supports like the Bill of Rights humanarian type yeah broadly speaking Yeah okay and then making amendments too though to the to the Constitution I'm sorry when I say Bill of Rights I just mean like stuff like in the bill like you should be able to go to court and the government shouldn't like infringe on your property and like should protect your freedom of speech that's what I mean like broadly speaking that's like a liberal so how is that opposed to a conservative um in the United States it's not like I said like if you go to Europe they would say like oh in the US like conservatives and Democrats are both liberals they're liberals they believe like in democracy they believe in capitalism they're both liberals yeah and then a leftist is usually in the United States people say anybody that's a Democrat is a leftist sometimes but uh broadly speaking like the world or sometimes in the US a lepus is a socialist or a communist somebody that is not a capitalist and what about a Progressive Progressive is they can be uh they can be liberal or they could be leftist meaning they might be capitalist or anti- capitalist but a progressive is somebody that that's usually more social policy aligned where they feel very very very strongly about um like anti-racism uh it might be like trans LGBT stuff um a lot of stuff relating to like white supremacy and stuff like that so is that top left then what do you mean top left like on a political Compass oh I don't think about that political Compass but maybe okay yeah and but if somebody says they're Progressive they're really telling you about their social views generally and then there's going to be a big overlap between between progressivism and leftism so a lot of progressives might also be like anti- capitalist not necessarily but you could also have liberals like I would say like I'm a liberal and I'm pretty Progressive because I'm a very big supporter of capitalism and democracy but I also am like a big supporter in a lot of like Progressive social ideas so yeah why are liberal feel more unhappy um I don't know that's a really hard one you don't know I don't know how happy are you 1 to 10 I'm super happy I'm like a 9.5 why do you feel so happy um I don't know my I'm a that my whole life story is kind of unique so I don't know how much it applies to everybody else but I mean I I get to I just I have a really high mental Baseline like it's even if I'm grumpy if I go to sleep if I wake up I'm usually like pretty even again uh I just do stuff in my life that I enjoy doing and as long as I feel like I can continue to do what I enjoy doing and I feel like I'm making incremental improvements on myself I just always feel like I'm do you do you feel like happiness might be genetic that you have a high Baseline maybe your parents had a high baseline or someone in your family did and you inherited that because some people have a very low Baseline I've noticed yeah it's possible it's probably it's going to be some combination of environmental and genetic factors the environmental factors might be really early in life like before you're like six or seven years old but who's to say yeah have you ever gone through a period of time in your life where you felt depressed like depressed in response to something yeah there have definitely been like a few days was like oo this thing sucked a lot but I'm very much like uh for whatever reason stress is like very empowering to me so when stressful things happen I usually feel like I've got the tools to deal with it I just want to like keep pushing forward um the only time I've ever had like stuff relating to like like mental like neurological depression or whatever uh when I was 30 I did a lot of mushrooms and the for that year I had a lot of strange mental issues but I think it was probably like a um probably a reverberation from that initial mushroom trip but other than that no what were some of those issues that you had um for the first time in my life I had bouts of anxiety so sitting on couch and for no reason my heart is just like finging in my chest I don't know why and I just feel very anxious um a few days of Hardcore an honia so like I feel like nothing can make me happy I don't even want to get out of bed I don't want to do anything to make me happy I just feel kind of like worthless um like really weird stuff like I say weird but unfortunately there are people that live with things like this but yeah I think it's just because yeah it was you think because of those what was it mushrooms yeah I did a really big mushroom trip and I think I had a response to that that took me about 12 months to get over how much did you take on that trip um uh it was 10.5 G of dried mushrooms it was a [ __ ] stupid amount 10.5 G what made you think that was a good idea or did you not you just wanted to so prior to um prior to doing mushrooms I did Edibles up to I think like I think I could do like a 25 G cookie and for me is that weed edible weed edible yeah um I think it's grams not milligrams did they measure it right do I okay yeah so reful had a friend who got us mushrooms and they were all like bagged in like 3.5 G each so that we could have our you know our trip and I remember I was debating between 2 and 3.5 gram cuz he was saying if you do two you can have like a you'll see like the walls breathe and it'll be like a kind of a cool experience but if you do 3.5 you have like a full mushroom trip and you'll have like the whole the different phases and blah blah blah and so I want to do the 3.5 so I took a whole bag and then I ate it and I was like okay cool and I just remember feeling after 30 minutes I was like oh my God I know what going to happen I already know what's going to happen nothing is going to [ __ ] happen because all of this is stupid [ __ ] it's literally [ __ ] mushrooms and everybody on stream is going to say like oh it's cuz you didn't try enough and blah blah blah blah blah and I remember somebody saying that five grams was like a heroic dose and I'm like [ __ ] it I'll just eat two more bags so I ate seven more grams cuz cuz it's [ __ ] mushrooms or whatever who cares and about an hour in remember seeing like colors on the wall for the first time on the because I think when you get high on psychedelics at least for me for Elan mushrooms you kind of see like colors like kind of moving in the wall breathing I'm oh [ __ ] I'm finally like getting high this's is actually really cool and then like 10 minutes later it was like um yeah probably the most intense extreme experience of my entire [ __ ] life I think I was like totally out for like 30 minutes what do you mean totally out like at like the when I like I'm in terms of seeing my eyes I'm just like moving through like basically black and then fractal colors of like tunnels of light and [ __ ] and I'm just completely and totally disconnected uh the perception that I don't exist anymore that I don't even know who I am that the person that used to knew who I was was somebody that was like distant a long time ago just like the it was a whole process of being stuck in other dimensions for was it scary yeah I I think there was the guy next to me and every time I would come out of it be like don't let me die please don't let me die I think I'm dying please don't let me die yeah it was really bad how long were you high for just six hours I think mushrooms are pretty reliably like up and down six hours even you do a lot how grateful were you when you stopped being high I it was the best experience of my life cuz I was I felt like I survived like the most traumatic thing ever and I was happy to be alive when I came back do you ever feel like since that incident you get little bouts of feeling like oh my God like like flashbacks to when you were high cuz I feel like I hear a lot of people they say they take acid they take mushrooms or something like that or big doses especially and for the next few years they could go through like just like a little scare like they they feel exactly what they felt in that high moment for just a split second and get really scared only when I'm getting high on other stuff so something I realized a month or two later I tried to do Edibles again and I was right back in my like the peak of like my mushroom TR I was like oh [ __ ] so now if I smoke weed I have to be like in emotionally a good place because it's going to be very very very psychedelic like shifted experience I'm going to be going to another dimension every time I smoke weed now for instance yeah did you learn anything from this I learned a couple things one is I gave a lot of credit to kind of like your cognitive mind to sort through reality I figur you've got like 10% is like your mood 90% is like your cognitive you know human brain thinking I like have switched that now where I think like probably 90% is like this underlying stuff you don't really have access to and 10% is the stuff you're thinking about um yeah real I don't like to be alone I like other people that's freaky it was very freaky yeah back to your expertise yeah I want to talk really quickly about the cultural and political shift that I feel like is happening right now okay Joe Rogan Elon Musk and other people of influence appear to be moving to the right you see Elon replying to end wokeness on Twitter a popular conservative publication Elon recently collaborated for an hour with Ben Shapiro more people appear to be aligning more with conservatives how many people do you see are moving to the left these days versus the right I mean it's more visible in people moving to the right but then the question is like how left were these people ever I don't feel like people are necessarily moving to the right I feel like we're doing a rehash of you remember like 10 years ago when people would be like anti sjw they're not like really conservative they just don't like all the crazy sjw stuff the very hardcore Progressive stuff yeah well yeah back then we just called it sjws but yeah now today now it's like called woke or Progressive and I feel like you're seeing like a similar thing like people that are really woke are like the old sjw sometimes you just push things too far and people like H I don't think I feel this and then they kind of like go in the other direction but like these people aren't really conservatives they're not going to stay there for a long time like Elon Musk is not like religious he doesn't like Vibe well with um you know like hardcore fundamentalist religious people or Evangelical Christians in the United States and yeah I don't think it'll last much but we'll see there was a it was like a chart or a graph or a spectrum thing that Elon tweeted where it was like people on the right people on the left and then Elon right here so he was like more so aligned on the left side of it and then it was like that was back in the day and then now it showed the left had just pushed so far left while the center and right have stayed exactly the same and now he's like on the right side of the spectrum even though he still feels like he's on the left yeah that is [ __ ] stupid no El is just a [ __ ] [ __ ] should no it's [ __ ] dumb every all the political positions have changed the right has changed dramatically if you were a bush era conservative the idea that your political party is now anti-corporation hates all big business and is following a New York City billionaire off the edge of the Earth who has like had three wives and was [ __ ] porn stars and paying them off with campaign P money while cheating on his wife this is the new you know like moral leader of your political party who also makes fun of like war heroes and and like makes fun of like Pals and [ __ ] like that's wild that sounds like you're like saying B basically all conservatives are saying that Donald Trump is their moral hero when in actuality I think that very few people honestly on the conservative side believe that I don't believe that I think it's the biggest COPE in the world okay but what do you say to the people that that say I'm really going to vote for Donald Trump not because I support him just because I Biden I it's the exact on the other side it's always I run into so many people they'll do this thing where like yeah I don't really support Biden um and you know Trump isn't the greenest oh but I you know I'll vote for Trump I and then every time you look at social media it's always like uh Joe Biden sucks his son's [ __ ] [ __ ] while he's [ __ ] smoking crack cocaine Donald Trump [ __ ] own his [ __ ] guy like uh embarrassing Hunter Biden release sex tape Donald [ __ ] oh like every dude I do an hour of this yeah no D it have every single [ __ ] time I talk to these people I have never found the moderate Trump supporter it is always people that like when I talk to them they are blue in the face because I know they just came from throating like an 8 inch like Trump realistic replica dildo because that's all they proba you probably never met them because they are the people that are never going to talk about it it's the same people I feel like that are liberals or on the left that are not super extreme that you feel like most people are right there I feel like that same thing exists on the right where it's just you don't really feel like like compelled to integrate yourself into this whole thing because it's just so toxic and and violent yeah but the difference is when you look on the left like if I go to the center left and I'm like what do you guys think about like progressives or what do you guys think about you know like lefties or tankies or whatever A lot of them will be like I don't really know but that shows I can find that sentiment if I look in Congress there's what like four maybe progressiv if you talk about like the Justice stems right if I look at Republicans they couldn't have their they they had no house Maj uh majority leader for like a month for the first time in all of us history because they're playing so many stupid [ __ ] games in the House of Representatives if I look at the Republican party you got the largest conservative figure in all of media Tucker Carlson going on TV talking about how cool Trump is and then the leaked text messages that came out over the Dominion case we like I hate this [ __ ] guy like he's destroying our Network he makes you know America look [ __ ] horrible I can't wait till he's gone we don't have to suck off this dud anymore I'm paraphrasing a bit um but yeah the it's not the same it's not the same there people people have gone too far left like I have friends I don't know if you guys are like this um because you seem like you don't have friends I'm just kidding I have friends that live like in Seattle and Portland and they regularly tell me things where it's like the people here are [ __ ] cringe I like it's gotten way crazier than what I'm used to and I know a lot of friends like that I don't know any conservative who like yeah like all these people around me are huge like Mega like Trump supporters that I'm so uncomfortable never heard that in my life now maybe I have a different set of friends so it's not like that but I think that you can see in the polling data you can see in the politicians that are reported you can see in the general Bend of both parties on the left Biden doesn't ever now maybe if you're conservative you're brain did you think this but on the left recently Biden is not trying to cater to woke tards ever like the biggest time that he tried to cater them maybe was through the student loan debt cancellation stuff what about all of the the invitations to like the transgender people to the White House and that one lady who like exposed I think like some naked part of her B I'm sorry I I could be getting the gender wrong here but like that person got naked at the white house I feel like that still is kind of pandering towards that it might like Pander sure okay I'll qualify maybe they like Pander a bit but like and the White House video there for for Christmas that one too I feel like pandering a little bit more towards yeah they might Pander but like at the end of the day if you look at Biden's legislative agenda if you look at the lawmakers that are in Congress it matches the composition of the democratic party which is largely not that but if you compare that to the Republican side the like the Democratic party right now is in a totally good spot the Republican party is on the verge of collapse like we can pretend that both sides are the same but if Donald Trump doesn't win this next election nobody has any [ __ ] idea what the Republican part is going to look like because Donald Trump is the Republican Party he is the center of the party right now 80 85% of people would follow him if he would to run third party the Republican part is lost it's total Center in terms of leadership the only person there is Donald Trump and yeah I I just think to pretend that both are like yeah you know they both have do things it's just not at all the same what do you think about vake ramas Swami I don't you don't you don't think of him don't think about this guy he a [ __ ] loser I don't know what do you mean he was a good litmus test for oh [ __ ] wait did you guys like Vic I was about to say really mean stuff no I mean speak your mind I I don't have like a hard St on we had him on the podcast he he was really kind to us really generous with also um I like a lot of like his his they could just be PR moves but he seems very diplomatic and supportive and understanding of certain things like when Trump was restricted from the ballot he said oh I'm going to do the exact same it seems like he's doing it from an ethical standpoint maybe politically posturing you could make that argument I don't know if he knows why Trump is taking off the ballot I don't think anybody does I want to know about Jeffrey Epstein what about him what a disappointment my God you you have all the answers right to jeffre here's what happened here's what people wanted there to be people think that there are a bunch of politicians billionaires that are raping kids all day long and they love that theory it's just such a fun awesome Theory Hillary Clinton was involved in it Bill Clinton was involved in it all the prince andw all the billionair all okay and then when a story like this comes out yes you finally okay Qin on the pizza shop everything is coming together okay this is it the child billionaire politician sex rape ring finally and I think what probably actually happened was you had a billionaire guy like Epstein who was a pervert who paid off a ton of girls not even the majority of them the a minority of them were underage to come over give him massages maybe give his friends massages and sometimes Jer them off but the vast majority of it was probably legal the majority of it probably weren't minors there were a few that were I think two confirmed I think only two um and he just like sometimes he would like send girls to go and like rub and tug his [ __ ] friends or whatever and that's it do you think that any of it could have been for blackmail no absolutely not or what I won't say absolutely not but right now there is zero evidence whatsoever of that at all and the idea of doing something like that for blackmail in US Territory against some of the most powerful people in the [ __ ] world that sounds like the most thing you could ever do why would you why would you want to I'm going to Blackmail ex president I'm going to Black every rich and powerful person like but I think there's a narrative that he has videotapes or he has photos and could say hey if you don't do this little thing here we got these photos and we could release the guy is already a billionaire there's no evidence of any of this ever being the case nobody is asserted this or claimed this it is pure fantastic like everything like there was just no reason at all to believe that to be the case it's a fun story and it's cool and it's Sensational there's no evidence for any of it and if you really think about it it would be pretty wacky for a guy like oh I'm going to go and blackmail literally all of the most powerful people in the world and see what happens why would you ever do that that sounds like the dumbest thing ever no but maybe that's why he's dead but then why isn't galain Maxwell dead why wasn't he killed before he even got taken to prison like there's like a billion other ways that this could have played out more reasonably like that kind of guy wouldn't get arrested he would get [ __ ] whacked he would get assassinated there'd be like who saw Kill Bill you guys didn't see Kill Bill long time ago not a big movie guy remember the Asian girl who killed the one guy in the bed because and she was long ago they remember story it is it is bad listen a lot of hearing this for the first time okay Epstein probably didn't do anything that crazy probably paid off some miners to jerk him off which is bad and wrong and coercive and gross and disgusting jity the girls weren't uh weren't underage I don't think anybody got like traffic in the sense that they were like abducted or kidnapped or forced to stay somewhere where they didn't want to um I don't think he was sending children around to all of his friends so that they could all be in some pedophile sex ring um I don't think that there was any like black male crazy [ __ ] anything like that going on there's literally no proof or evidence for almost any of those claims but they're fun are you concerned at all about politicians trying to put the political opposition in jail on both sides I'm on the Republican side not on the Democrat side what do you mean when I look at the history of behavior of Republicans trying to jail or talk about jailing political opponents I think it's very worrisome I would say that so far I think Democrats have been fairly responsible when it comes to how they approach it with some select criticisms for the way that they conduct themselves but I think all of the indictments are 100% Fair all of them are public you can read them some of them he he's dead to writes on like the mar Lago thing absolutely dead to writes on that um the New York thing is like uh kind of I don't know um the RICO thing in Georgia and the main jacksmith case for the uh interaction stuff I think is really strong it'll be interesting other play out in court but yeah but you compare that to like the Jim Jordan like house impeachment inquiry of Biden because he because he saw too many Hunter Biden cockp picks or whatever is like [ __ ] stupid I think and that's the the documents you're talking about Mar Lago is the classified classified information but didn't Joe Biden have classified information as well yes and so the status on that so again this comes down to a fact of the matter thing that I think a lot of people just aren't aware of uh taking classified material out of a uh they're called Skiffs I'm trying to remember what it stood for it's like secured classified information area designated area or something taking classified material is not a crime you might get fired for it taking class material is not a crime the crime if you actually read the criminal statute um under the US code and you can see them mon all the Trump indictments the crime is if you knowingly take something or if you keep something that you know you're not supposed to happen in unsecured area that's the crime so for what Joe Biden did and I think Pence did this as well was either I think it was their lawyers discovered like oh here's a document that might be classified because a lot of it is retroactively classified it's not classified the time you take it and then if you communicate with either Nara or the FBI or the doj you're like hey we've got a classified material here do you want to come and take this or whatever and they do that you're you're fine that's totally happened to a ton of people it happens every time presidents leave office sometimes they take a bunch of stuff some stuff gets retroactively classified Nar will come and they'll take the stuff that's all fine Donald Trump had the ability to do that Nara reached out to him in um March 2021 I think um and then it wasn't until a year later that the FBI finally came knocking on the door because he wasn't cooperating he wasn't turning any of it back in and when you read all the leak stuff he knew that he had stuff that he wasn't supposed to have he was intentionally trying to move the boxes around and hide it and he was telling his employee that na guy or na na I think he was telling him to lie to his legal counil about where stuff was and what was where and to move it around to hide it from them so Donald Trump was knowingly he was satisfying the men's Rea aspect of that criminal statute to be committing the crime of having uh classified material and retaining it against what was the material what was in it um National Defense Secrets is part of it so for some stuff it related to um if you if you actually read the indictment for the maral case they list but it's all in like vague terms so it'll be like a document might be the weapons capability of an ally when it comes to this type of attack um the defensive capability of an enemy in this region like those are what they're all marked as it won't tell you specifically what it is but and why would he keep that good question why would he I don't know he showed off some of it there were at least two instances that they are asserted in the indictments where he's just showing off like I think one is Iranian attack plans where he's talking to a um reporter and he's like look uh Millie he tried to say that wanted to do this but look at what he did he's the one that made this plan and he was showing it to a reporter so that's one instance of it and there was another one talking about plans or something to another person yeah those are crimes the obstruction element is also a crime um yeah retention will for retention of National Defense Secrets is a crime even if the materials de um even if it was like Declassified um the and then the obstruction of justice charges are crimes as well um falsification of federal documents was one of the indictments uh conspiracy for obstruction was another charge yeah yeah at any point do you think it's in the people's best interest to limit Free Speech yeah of course and where do you draw that line uh I don't know it's a hard one to draw but like obviously there's tons of limits that we all agree I can't make plans with you for instance to go and kill somebody right and then go buy something to do it right that's conspiracy to commit murder conspiracies to commit crimes are arguably it's just a speech element and then one step taken towards the crime that's not illegal um the obvious like shouting fire in a movie theater is illegal um you know leaking uh classified information can be a crime like yeah I mean there's a lot of free speech things that are crimes um yeah I don't know it super depends um there's the brandenberg the Ohio standard for inciting a riot like you've got to know you got to have the intention of been setting a right and know that your words will cause a right or whatever there's got to be like imminent lawful or lawlessness that you're encouraging people to do Etc um yeah I don't know that's very broad it depends on you need a specific example of you how would you limit where to platform somebody or where they fall on that that you even want to give them a platform to talk prob platform anybody I think I think well if it's popular enough I I think you should always be talking about it right if there's like a guy who thinks he's got like a rock solid argument for why we should sacrifice children to the Sun God and he's got like 0.001% popularity I probably wouldn't platform this guy but for Donald Trump or all of the stuff relating to conservatives there these are all very very very popular beliefs there's a large segment of the United States population that believes in these things so the idea that you wouldn't platform that when you know 30 40% of Americans believe it is insane to me I agree I'm not a huge fan of the word platforming or platform which I feel like it's kind of exploded in usage in the past couple of years how could you have this person on your just platforming these ideas and stuff like that which I think it's just like I think that that thought if you're thinking that that's like pled your I think the argument is that you're giving you're exposing this person to a wide range of people who may never have seen this person and because we're the ones to introduce that person to a new audience they might take on those beliefs but how do you know you're right and they're wrong if they have support from like you know a non well to the person who disagrees everything that person says is bad right but I'm saying to that's having that thought if you recognize that thought then you should probably look inwards and question that thought yeah I think it's also a matter of like how equipped is that person to deal with it versus you like if I like if I like if I was the world's most intelligent flat earther I could probably beat you guys on a debate about flat earth right like I would say the same I don't think I would win a debate against the world's best flight I don't know the world best probably not yeah and that's probably true of almost every conspiracy I think I know a lot about like Russia Ukraine Israel Palestine vaccines but the like the top experts on any of these things could probably say almost anything to me and I don't know if I could counter it so if I have very strong moral beliefs about how I think we should feel about say like vaccines I'm not going to bring on like the world's best antier because I'm probably going to get crushed in that argument unless I do a lot of very particular research for this particular debate so I wouldn't want to like give this guy access to my whole audience where I can't counter a single thing he says so I think that's fair sometimes I think it's just the way you say it and with the confidence if you say something with like 100% conviction I almost can't disagree with it because I could just say well my experience is different but if you believe that to be true you know sure go for it but I don't agree and just leave it at that but I think a lot of people want that and if you say it in a very fluent way people say fluency is a proxy for accuracy which I kind of agree with interesting it depends on what you mean by fluency but I yeah I probably agree with you like if you're able to just kind of like go and just maintain a good way you talk do you think journalism is failing America um a little bit but I also think America's failing journalism I think that they're very reciprocal like they feed back into each other and the type of Journalism we have today is very much a response to the type of things that Americans want to see and I think we all kind of have to do a little bit better on moving towards a more responsible future so who's it up to first um I would argue the journalists it's up to the so we should set higher standards for journalists well when you say we should set higher standards for journalists that makes s like the people need to move first because we're setting the standards right you're right right so you'd say it's the government needs to set higher standards for journalists um no journalists need to set higher standards for journalists I think but why would they do that when they're financially incentivized otherwise I know it's a hard one right so how do you but why would the people do it when the people like watching people screaming at each other being the most problem that is the problem so they feedback into that's what I mean when I say feedback into each other because that Financial incentive is the feedback mechanism and then for consumers it's the consumption uh lever that's their feedback mechanism so they're going to watch the things that are entertaining the most and journalists are going to produce the things that entertain them the most and then you're stuck in this horrible world that's the tough part it's like you don't want to restrict them but you do want to somehow incentivize them to angle a little bit more towards truth rather than it's human nature though that's why the news is so negative all the time is is that's what that's what keeps people watching and we've even realized it on my main channel of just like negative titles get twice to three times the viewership than a positive title consistently and it's one of those things where like do you want to make a positive title that a third of the people watch or you make the same video the same message with a negative headline people watch it and take away the message we were even talking about this earlier with um a podcast title do we say the five things you could do to get rich or the five things you could do not to be poor the poor title like this it's the same video but the negative connotation does better and so from a journalistic point of view it's like the negative is going to get more attention people are more likely to click it there's no reason for them to change that yeah I don't know it's a tough one I wonder sometimes yeah I don't know I this idea just popped in my head so I might completely two days from now I think it's the dumbest thing in the world but I wonder if people are drawn to the negative stuff because their actual real life is actually pretty decent even though people don't realize it so you're like drawn to the negative speak stands out more like do I want to turn on the TV and watch like some happy normal ordinary story if like my life is like kind of boring or whatever do I want to see like some exceptionally crazy [ __ ] because I'm thinking like if you take people in like really exceptionally [ __ ] circumstances like would they be listening to negative stuff all the time think they would because I feel like when I think of the people that have the most engagement with politics in a negative way where it's really driving them crazy I'm usually thinking of like like middle class kids who are like their life is fine I'm like why the [ __ ] if this stuff makes you so miserable why are you fighting about this all the time there was something I saw of like the fear of loss versus the pursuit of gain and someone fears losing $1 way more than they would pursue getting $2 ratios are like yeah the ratios are so skewed towards like I'd rather not risk this little bit than have all of this upside yeah and my understanding is that all of that was really designed to Keep Us Alive like we have to be on edge because what if a lion comes out and like kills you or you do that one thing like it's more worth it to try to stay alive than it is to try to you know we had a psychiatrist on the podcast who also did Crisis negotiation and he said the reason why we're so fearful of negative things happening is because it's been coded into our genetics into our DNA whereas back in the day like Graham said if you weren't fully perceptive of all the negative things like eating a certain bad fruit or like going into a certain bad part of the Jungle where a lion could attack you like that was the end of it that was the end of your entire family tree end of spreading your your genetics end of your entire life end of everything um and we're so used to that that like kind of scared mentality the scarcity that it's just kind of like stayed with us even though we don't really have any of those like super violent threats it's still way more important when you're walking through a dark alleyway these days to think somebody's going to come and get you um rather than to just be completely oblivious of negative things that could happen because that's the end of everything very little margin of error when it comes to your safety one thing that I absolutely despise about journalism is they can make certain claims about people and then these claims these alleged claims they turn out to be false and then they don't make content that would say oh sorry guys I made this like Claim about this person it kind of ruined their their life but it turns out it's not false and I'm sorry I'll do better in the future that just never happens for example this is a personal example but it it happened to my favorite artist in the entire world his name is Rex County so he had a bunch of Articles made about him doing alleged sexual assault um and then I was in all of his like fan groups and everything and everyone was saying I will never forgive him even if he ends up being not guilty because this is just such a disgusting thing right so he is incurring actual Financial damage uh reputation damage measurable damages to his life because of all these articles that came out turns out CCTV footage came out proved him innocent like actual irrefutable evidence all the charges got dropped and nobody made any content whatsoever saying that he was innocent and now I still feel to this day when I meet people and they ask me about my music taste and I say oh I love Rex rch County they always say oh yeah but what do you think about that thing it's like they all know about the alleged infraction but nobody knows about when he was actually absolved from it yeah that's definitely a problem even if feble did publish retractions the retractions always get way less coverage than the original claims there was something that I saw on uh Twitter and it was this huge followup of this I think she was like a congresswoman or something that said she was sexually assaulted in like the train station and she pointed to the guy and they caught the guy uh and all these headlines went out about him I was trying to just find his name and then they pulled up the CCTV uh CCTV footage afterwards and the guy just was on his phone accidentally kind of bumped into her like this and kept walking mhm and that was it and then no one really reported on it but they later found out how ridiculous this was and then they posted it calling out this Congress maybe she wasn't a and she probably didn't suffer that much how much this guy but this guy I believe like lost his job he was targeted people like were sending him death threats they were trying to track him dead same thing happened to KY rhouse Kyle writtenhouse had several death threats and like you said assuming your take on Kyle writtenhouse case is correct and he was doing completely fine thing not in the wrong in any capacity but he suffered horribly because of this thing and hardly any media well at least on the left more so on the the right does it um covers it yeah I mean that's bad of course I agree um a lot of the coverage of those stories are really bad the one of the most [ __ ] ones that I thought was funny was the um bird watcher the Central Park I think it was in Central Park the bird watcher guy who ran into the woman with the dog and she called 911 on him oh [ __ ] never mind wait a second I remember this yeah it it was big that guy has a TV show now I think on like the Discovery Channel his whole life got made for that and that woman's life got destroyed but basically I think there's a recording of um I don't want to get the quoting on this wrong especially we're talking about misreporting but there's there's like a video of him on his cell phone and she's saying something like uh like hi 911 like there's a guy here uh there's a black man here and he's threatening me and something like that I don't remember if she says something like uh like oh like you're a black guy like the cops are going to get you I don't know if it was something specifically like that or if it was just her saying like there's a black man here and he's like oh you're being racist and blah blah blah and he published that video uh online and her life was dist destroyed and obviously said he was a hero who endured this horrible Karen white woman in the park blah blah blah but when you go back and you look at the actual Facebook post that that the black guy had made on his Facebook now I'm not trying to say that the woman was necessarily in the right for calling the cops but on the guy's own Facebook he said that he had brought doggy treats because this woman was bringing her dog to the park and he thought that the dog needed to be on a leash or something and he brought doggy treats and he was going to try to lure the dog away from her so that he could like take the dog or something and in that light I'm like okay well I kind of understand if he's threatening to do this because then he also threaten like I'm going to get your dog and blah blah blah that she would call now because she's worried or whatever it it paints that story in a way different light but um yeah there's a lot of random stories where you get like half the I mean you brought up C Rittenhouse all of Kyle Rittenhouse happened because of the riots that happened in Kenosha which was in response to like that 14-second Twitter video clip of Jacob Blake do you remember that black guy goes into a car with a cop behind him and he shoots him the back like seven times and it looks horrible and but the entirety of that was two or three cops were wrestling with this guy to try to not get him to go in the car that had like the two children of a woman that this guy had previously sexually assaulted uh and the cops were trying to get him to not drive off with the kids in the car so when the full story came out in my opinion the police offic were completely exonerated maybe you they should have tried harder to take him down before him getting in the car whatever but initially it looked like just some black dude trying to get in a car where the cops were bowling him and they shot him in the back for like seven times for no reason right did anything happen to the police officers um I don't remember what follow for them was but I know the kosha wres were in response to that video the Jacob Lake video the problem with stuff like this is that you're financially incentivized to trigger negative emotions in people about us a given enemy yeah you know what I mean like it just lines your pockets more the worse you make them seem cops immigrants black people conservatives liberals yeah for me I don't like the fact that they could make all these alleged claims but almost State them as though they're a fact yep like there are some of these things where I read them it's like you know this person took this person into the thing beat them and did this and this and this and and then at the end is like allegedly according to the complaint or whatever it might be and it just it makes it sound like oh they're stating this is a fact and this is true I feel like for media they're generally will they'll always say allegedly if that if that's the case but for no comment you know for Twitter and stuff it'll be I like can always tell people like if you see a 12C video you should always be wondering why it's a 12C video we all have cell phones we've got CCTV footage like if you're seeing 12 seconds of video footage it's because somebody very specifically wants you to see only 12 seconds of video footage that should say something to you you know we had a conversation with David pacau he was the guy from wargs if you've ever seen that movie and uh there was a major media publication I think it was the New York Times that made this massive article on him saying that he was delivering improper ammo to the Afghans sourcing it through the US Military and then all these secondary Publications Source or they cite the original publication in the New York Times basically as fact so as it goes down the line people just start citing other things and citing other things and then it just eventually comes fact yeah that happens yeah I notice sometimes when I try to track down like an original sarc clamp or something I'm clicking and clicking and clicking and what was like 15 different sources is actually only one and then when you go to that one and you try to figure out where they got it from you're like hm yeah that happens I got a question about Tucker Carlson yeah he was recently spotted in Russia people are speculating he's going to be interviewing or having a conversation with Vladimir Putin what do you think about that do you think more journalists should strive to have those hard conversations with people that are kind of Warlords I think journalist should have hard conversations that's not what tuger Carlson is going to do he's going to go do the constellation thing Putin is awesome because he's standing up to the US that's weak and they're losers but Putin is based and strong uh and they believe like in Christian values and the family and they don't believe like in weird TR gay [ __ ] and he's like you know doing what he needs to do to be a man and traditional and America is like weak and feminine and it's just like that East vers West culture War stupid [ __ ] that's exactly what that whole inter I just spoiled the whole whole interview for your entire audience so make sure you put a poer spoiler on this section cuz that's the entirety of that interview is going to be like that I love the conviction that you have with that and we'll be able to directly like actually it's that's exactly be it would be hard to go to Russia and criticize Putin Tuesday I mean Ian how far could you take it to begin with right there's probably going to be like armed guards just outside of the whatever building they're in or room yeah but I probably just wouldn't do it then if I have to either choose to be like a mouthpiece of some guy or not talk to that guy I probably just wouldn't talk to him then I think depends on what Tucker's incentives are if his incentive is I want to make money and I want to expand my reach because a lot of people are going to watch this I'm just going to do it and say whatever I need to say sure that's probably what he's yeah we'll try to do yeah I am having a really hard time understanding the left perspective as far as the border to be honest um obviously for everyone to get up to speed on the news Texas started putting up walls the federal government was trying to take them down Civil War was trending in the United States on Twitter because people think that it's like actually the first time since a state is disobeying direct orders from the federal government for what like 50 60 years or something like that it have been a very long time since something like that had occurred um the Supreme Court ruled Texas can't install razor wire and barriers to mitigate legal immigration um what are your thoughts on the governor Greg Abbott um saying that they have a right to defend themselves the federal government should not be involved in this what do you think about the federal government removing the wire um this is just a legal argument uh and it's not going to be satisfying for a lot of people but the federal government has exclusive jurisdiction on matters relating to immigration states have no jurisdiction whatsoever uh if the federal government in their enforcement of Border policy is doing something and Texas wants to do something with them they can do that in coordination with each other with the federal government's consent taxes cannot defy the federal government on immigration law so if they're putting up razor wire fence that ice or whoever DH I don't know who um is it Ice immigration in Customs Enforcement are they the ones that are out the Border I feel like it's a different agency Customs and Border enforcement CBE maybe I no [ __ ] I don't remember I think it's it might just be I I don't think it's is there's a there's another name for the agency but um yeah if they're down there and they're saying hey stop putting up this razor wire it's [ __ ] with our job you know and then Texas continues to put it up for purposes of regulating immigration Texas doesn't have the authority to do that as a state just full stop they don't okay so barring what the current rules are saying what do you think should happen here if you're going to make the biggest possible benef benefit for Americans uh and do you think that that should be the main thing in the purview of Ian I mean the federal government should have exclusive rights to do immigration that's just that's the only way the country works that nothing else makes sense there um so I mean that should be the case in terms of like how to actually deal with the Border um it's always hard to tell like if things are bad or not because everybody has like an incentive in blowing up other stuff uh like every year you know conservatives say there's a new Refugee Asylum seeking crisis on the border and usually is like over hype but this one seems to be different well because Abbott is like making it his like job to now defy the federal government in terms he wants to enforce border policy um I I think something definitely needs to be done obviously there are issues relating to the border and people like coming into this country illegally I think Biden is trying to pass legislation to get something done but Republicans are also blocking it I think Biden was asking for more power when people were saying that Biden already has the authority to solve the problem I think it was power I think he was asking for money I think they just need money our border system is like really backed up like I don't think we have enough money for agents think enough money for to do the court stuff like it's just it's he needs more money for it and that legislation is being held up in Congress right now um what we really need unfortunately is like comprehensive immigration reform we need to figure out we need to redo how we let people into this country and there's just not the political will on either side for it yet so is this not something that's concerning to you at all there are parts of this that are concerning the main part is the that a State Governor would defy the federal government and then get support from like 25 other Governors to do that that's very scary but but this isn't high up on your list of priorities as far as like what's happening right now policy Wise It's actually it would be one of the highest things I just don't talk about because the difference between the state and federal government yeah because it well it makes me sound unhinged but yeah assuming all the facts and I haven't done like the super deep dive into this like but if the facts are as I think they are or have they been have they've been like presented or whatever I think Abby should be arrested and thrown into federal prison because he's literally like rebellious there are again this would be the same thing as if California were to say like oh well we've actually decided today that we're going to let anybody from me that wants to fly into this state we're going to let them fly and stay here even if they're legal immigrants they just get out at the airport and they can go and live in this in this state if they want to which would be insane you can't do that do you have confidence that if the uh the plan that Biden has proposed would be approved that it would actually drastically improve the Border enforcement in the situation I think improve it would it drastically improve it uh I don't know Biden's enforcement right now is I think a little bit better than Trump by the Numbers uh people don't like to hear he that but the reality is one Trump's final year in office was very easy because of Co there weren't very many people coming through and because Trump could use I think was title 42 um he could declare a national health emergency and do hardcore border enforcement which Biden couldn't do anymore he tried to and the Supreme Court said you can't use this title anymore to do this because there's no more Co Health Emergency um but I think the KO Institute did a big analysis on the number of people that were coming in as a percentage of like border crossings and etc etc and it showed that Biden was doing percentagewise a bit better there's just a whole bunch more people trying to come right now especially once Co is over so I think that like more money would help but again we need like comprehensive like immigration overhaul and I don't know when the [ __ ] that's overcoming yeah so my understanding of the situation let me just State this right here I get most of my information from Twitter on the left and on the right just to be clear um but it seems as though the the remain in Mexico was just it obviously went away with title 42 and then people are coming they're saying that I feel threatened by my current government you get led into the United States with a certain court order that you have to peer by so and so date say three or so months in the future and then people just come into the United States drop their passports drop everything drop all documentation and then pray that some policy is going to be passed for them all to be granted granted amnesty yeah I've read that I don't know by the numbers like how much it's actually happening I have done it that might if that is happening in a huge amount that would be a bad thing but I don't know if that's happening more than it ever has been in the past if there's any reason to believe that it's happening more than it ever has been in the past I think that the number so I I've seen a lot of data on this at least but it could be skewed data but it does appear that the number is like 10,000 illegal immigrants coming per day from the southern border that are going into the United States and the thing that's concerning for a lot of people is if you added up all the numbers I think it was since the beginning of Biden's presidency the do uh the known number is 6 million and then you have all of the unknown Goda alwayss which are the people that just get through the Border without actually being you know on a camera or anything and six million people I think I saw some number where it's a greater population than like some some crazy amount of the actual population of certain States like I I the overall amount ofal immigrants that I'm familiar with they're supposed to be like 12 to 15 million and the numbers of people I hear people saying is that like the illegal immigrant population has like almost doubled in the past like three or four years I don't know if I believe that but um I haven't done like the really deep dive on the immigration border stuff I was going to but I'm I'm still doing like foreign policy so I haven't dug into this as much right now yeah I was really interesting that you didn't really talk about that with Ben Shapiro I really thought that that was going to be brought up because I think for the conservatives right now that's the biggest concern honestly and you see other people like Bill Maher you know especially when you have these people these like four illegal immigrants in New York that beat up all these police officers and that was caught on video people are now saying okay these guys got let off scott like without bail that makes absolutely no sense and then certain things are getting approved for I think it was like I don't know the exact amount but it was in the millions tens of millions maybe over 100 million um for visas with $1,000 credits to be dispersed to a bunch of different illegal aliens and then a lot of people are saying okay well it appears as though they're taking care of these immigrants more so than they're taking care of the citizens I normally and again I can't speak to those things I haven't looked into that but normally when you look into these things they never are as they're reported like I figured so yeah but if it is I would have to then it would be concerning yeah it would be but it almost never is when a when a story seems like too Sensational to be true when you actually look into the details it's usually not but I haven't looked into those so I can't speak to them we'll do our best to fact check what I just said but it would be interesting and I would like to see your take on that okay can we talk about business and finance sure so we talked about this last time you came on the podcast and this was actually interestingly enough some of the favorite section of the entire podcast because I feel like it's very rare that you talk about this aside from like policy and stuff like that um I want to know how your Revenue has changed since you last came on this podcast and if the sources of revenue have changed like where you're getting it from well all YouTube is a big one I like a contract now with kick for streaming which is also a big one so the contract you're still not able to disclose that contract probably not probably not and then YouTube I've noticed that like your YouTube channel seems to be like exploding yeah currently do you have any idea why that may be happening cuz I'm awesome um I try to go on a variety of platforms I'm usually pretty entertaining on a variety of like different areas so I can like plug in with a lot of different audiences and then I think my political point of view is a little bit refreshing because I can give you a unique take on things from my perspective and it's not just here's what all the progressives thinks or here's what all the like the centrists think or here's what all the conservatives think um yeah what about the pay difference between kick and YouTube um well I mean the kick thing is because I have like a unique contract with them as an individual uh YouTube AdSense it's just so good yeah yeah I don't know who really competes with that right now so what percentages would you say are coming from these sources um well kick now is probably more it's probably more than YouTube for sure wow than YouTube Revenue in totality yeah is that revenue or profit because I know that you have the clips Channel where you pay the editor 50% which a lot of people in the comments thought that we were saying that that was not a good thing that you're paying like your Clips Channel cuz we were surprised because how much can you say uh your Clips Channel editors was making well I negotiated them down now to 43% so 43 down from 50 so what's that look like Revenue wise a lot what do you mean a lot I think last time you said it was like 50k a month um it's probably a little bit higher than that now yeah around that yeah that's that's and that's your main channel is that your Clips Channel no no these are for all three of my channels so you'd say now that kick is actually a more significant portion of your Revenue than than YouTube yeah and how are you spending this money uh goes right into my investment account and what do you invest in I'll either I'll buy meme stuff on stream because I'm like I have oh [ __ ] sorry I have strong feelings about this particular thing for some stupid reason it usually works out really well oh really um yeah like I bought God I wish I could remember it I think it was like a year and a half ago I bought a whole bunch of meta because uh oh good I was like it dropped like what like 20% or something it D it had a huge drop and I was like did it really did I really feel like it lost that much and I'm like n i met people are overreacting so i' always be like dumb that's the logic are you still holding on to no I dump before the 20% gain um but um it was it was a Hu I like my investment massively be the S so I was happy with that um how much did you throw into meta I don't it was like three or 400,000 I don't remember but um three you put in three cuz I well because I'll deposit a bunch of stuff from my checking account to my like uh investment account and I'll just like buy a meme stock and then after a year I'll be like oh cool I beat the market and then I'll sell it and then I'll put it into like a S&P 500 like Vu like V what if you don't beat the market what if it underperforms do you still sell it or do you just keep it until I'm going to be h I'm like five for five on my no way yeah well but it's all gambling at the end of the day but five for five well depends when you started like over the last and half everything is B yeah well I talk about on stream because it's funny because I'll talk because usually because when I bought meta it continued to tank for a while cuz I I want to say I bought it like one like 60 I think it might have dipped below 100 it did dip below 100 and and everybody in my community is like making fun like no guys we're going to hold tight okay where are my bag holders at we're here and then yeah with by the time I still like a year and some change later man I don't remember it I don't it was significantly beating the S 500 so I felt good on that I did down before the 20% big increase like yesterday but yeah so what's the next stock you're buying I just buy just tot sh me [ __ ] you should never I didn't think Facebook meta was I bought like 100k I think in um in that anheiser bush [ __ ] cuz so many conser like I'm going to dump this stock that' be the S500 barely but it did I just have so I have like the screenshot of that I just want to post to like [ __ ] with conservatives but so you were telling us earlier you didn't like a lot of Financial YouTubers you felt the advice that they give is bad it's always just like some meme generic sh like invest in real estate or something [ __ ] random and I'm like well what does this even mean I don't know or like crypto or so what would you like to see more of more of number one is college go to [ __ ] school it is incredibly important if I could give one piece of advice myself growing up it would be to study more God damn yes ABS you're not being I'm not joking I can't tell it is like the easiest path towards like securing a job and get moving your way towards a career making a big invest put it at the studies man what studies ZR more businesses yeah are are hiring people without a bachelor's degree it was something zip recruiter now it was like 50% of businesses didn't no longer require a bachelor's degree for what jobs for their jobs on zip recruiter which ones nobody's getting an engineering job without a degree nobody that's stem sure so I would agree with you I think I'm sorry if you want to be like the manager at your local franchise Wendy's you probably don't need a stem degree okay but what all the like the Arts degrees what about them I I feel like there's plenty of coding a lot of tech jobs no longer require the bachelor's degree if you're proficient in what you know here's the here's the here I'm so sorry to hurt your feelings if you're listening to me if you're if you want to get into software development and you don't know if you should go to college or not you absolutely should go to college the people that get those jobs that didn't need to go to college are people that are already working and stuff they're like highly driven they do like all of their own research they work on programs and they work on projects and when they go they you know they might price a little bit for the tech interview but they like they pass the interviews they've got like work they can point to and they they're proficient if you're just some guy who's like 18 you're like well I heard that I don't need to go to college and then you like do python for four years and you make like one stupid program and you're like oh I want to interview like you're not getting hired from anywhere you're not getting a job okay well I think that's a whole different argument I think we'd probably be in agreement because we yeah you and I would Advocate if you're in stem you should go to college just generally speaking broad Strokes here you should go to college if you want to study stem same thing goes for things like coding although I'd probably recomend a coding boot camp because it's a lot expensive and specialized rather than taking all these undergrad random units like I had to take history of jazz that gets me nowhere and cost me a you out as a human being and if it's cost a bunch of money it's because you're going to some stupid [ __ ] private school you should just be doing either Community College for two years or state school if you're not making money you're studying something you're going to be eventually doing you're rounding yourself as a human being how is it a waste time more about the history of could be rounding yourself out in the in the I player in college single thing jazz is America's most important contribution to the enti world of mus and you don't from that class is Duke Ellington that's it don't even I can't even name a song from him that's okay at least you time I spent sitting in that classroom and how much money probably went in even though it was Community College could have been an actual University and it would you're doing right now because you're a well-rounded thanks to Jazz I out of college it was the opportunity should have it's the opportunity cost of wasting four years in a school just to go through the motions just to prove that because I just feel like you're being told what to do and you're not thinking for yourself welcome to every job in the world being told what to do and not think it for yourself how many jobs they give you the creativity you're not going to be in a Facebook playroom where they give you like Legos you're like let's see what projects you guys come up with today like but look at both of us both of us are in a very creative field we're we the 1% of the 1centers though not everybody you can't do that the reality most people can't I feel like people can I agree with you I think I think to to accept the fact that like everyone could do this job would be kind of L it's a difference like anyone could do this job but not everybody everybody I believe someone really wants to do something within within reason most people can accomplish you haven't met a lot of NCAA athletes who really think that if they try hard they can go to the NBA or the NFL but that was my exception you know obviously like I can't play in the NBA maybe but I just think when people go to college and they start studying things that like Communications and they just like ah well I just wanted to go to this college didn't know what I wanted to do and I know I could get in with Communications that's not going to take them anywhere in life and they're probably going to have $100,000 worth of student loan debt first of all if you have a $100,000 student loan debt you are exceptional indebted okay what is the average student loan debt is it like 30 grand yeah okay so already [ __ ] up number one number two I agree with you going to school and being aimless is is dumb and you shouldn't do that but better to be aimless in four years and have gotten a degree than to be aimless from 18 to 22 and then what get a normal job knock somebody up and then just be [ __ ] for the rest of your life you're never going back to school you going to do that's what you're saying is the only alternative and that's not what we would advocate for wait what would you advocate for if you're not going to college yeah figure out what you're actually interested in then actually go pursue that okay that's 1% of people you're telling me the the the problem is people draw from different groups make these arguments the person that goes to school and is like I don't know I want major I didn't take one that person okay don't go to college it's not out of college and they're like I'm going to take a one-year coding boot camp I'm going to be totally [ __ ] driven I'm gonna study every [ __ ] day on I'm going remember that person who's capable of doing that would probably just go to college is because every the the NPC Bots they think that college is the next route okay they think that college is the next route because that's what they've been learning and impressed upon since they were growing Al natural route being just go straight to college and people just like I'm going to do it don't know what I'm going to study don't know do but I'm go College you don't know what to do to get work experience in any experence the culture I'm saying the culture needs to change any experience you retail experience an apprentice for who's going to take an apprentice high school for a good job anybody you could you could who no no one is no they're not you're going if you're going to college you need someone to support you right and let you or you have to get work experience to pay for the college so in a lot of those cases you could say I'm going to intern for this person I'm going to be this person's assistant I want to try this career I could go to this trade school I could get my real estate license there's so many licenses that you could just get real estate is for people that fail law school and trades are for people that couldn't make it to College why would you why would you the trades the trades are fantastic no they are't they suck why why do you trade suck because they're worse than college degrees by definition they pay less they hurt your body more the hours suck they it's more demanding work it's less creatively like free like what do mean I've heard a lot of Trades pay very well you heard lies from people here's what happens why are they lying because they're [ __ ] and because they feel strongly about the profession here's what happens some asso will come on it's like yeah I'm a plumber and I make 250k a year that person is not a plumber that person is a small business owner that employs plumbers it is never the C yeah you're looking at up right now the trades do not average on median Med median annual wage this is 2021 also so it's a little bit uh wind turbine service technicians 56,000 sure that's an ultra specific part of like a trade I doubt that you like tile and stone Setters $ 47,800 the the ultra specialized trade things that you're talking about are not going to be trade jobs that you get going into the trades and working for two years these are no that person that's probably doing that probably started doing other types of trade work but you got to build up to that for 10 or 20 years career floor layers you could say the same thing about doctor yeah but having but generally having to do that work it starts off with less pay your pay Horizon like college you're not earning anything for four years so by the time you want to graduate college now you could be a specialist and when you're pulling something back on a slingshot it's not getting any close to your target the whole point about college is you're doing an investment in yourself you take on some early debt to increase your lifetime earnings potential and if you look at the median wages of almost any college degree over a lifetime of earnings it's like a million dollar difference between couldn't that be because they're the type to go to college to begin with that they would have done well regardless that they had they had the ability to sit there Focus get a job done do a task yeah I don't want to be a mean person but for a lot of people life just works better on Rails there are a lot of people where I think it's the exact opposite where if you take a person and I know people like this where they it sounds so mean because like we we have like the dream job of like oh you're Your Own Boss you blah blah blah blah blah which is cool and it's fun I like that you two you must like that if you do this as a job but there are people who it's like if you throw them into wind they are lost they're not going to like [ __ ] self-direct and figure out what they need to do for work or to grow the but if you put them like in a certain environment where you're like here's your job to your task they I the problem is that the type of person to watch this podcast is not the type of person who wants to be on Rails just the fact that they're listening to a financial based podcast makes them the exception that's what I like to think and to see I super disagree and I would I would fight you to the death on this because people will say things like like that's more delusional than that every single person that thinks they have ADHD has ADHD take like I think that a lot of people like the idea of like Financial Independence and being their own boss and blah blah blah but the at the end of the day that's stressful stuff like not knowing where your next paycheck is coming from having to chase down your own leads having to create your own opportunities not having a guy to just tell you what to do that's an incredibly high level of stress some people I think the exception like less than 5% are super built for that you I'm you guys probably are I know that I am I'm because you guys do podcast and everything you must be I would imagine um but for a lot of people that's incredibly stressful right but that's for being Your Own Boss like we were talking about just certain trades and other jobs that didn't necessarily require college any path that's not going to a traditional four-year College yeah I would say if you know what you want to do for a career you snipe it and maybe the snipe you know you got to go through college which I think is totally fine but if you're going into college and you just have no idea you're going to be taking all of these undergrads and you're just going to be past killing time essentially I understand and that could be the case but that person that might go to college and have no idea if they just spent four years doing nothing except for working and had no idea that person is in a much higher likelihood of destroying their life than the person that goes to college for years I know but the thing is that the culture says the only normal route that people should go on is straight to college but maybe if we shifted the culture a little bit more to like hey there are other alternative options where you don't have to take on so much debt and spend so much time going through the system then I think that it would actually make sense I think if there were other stronger Alternatives I would agree but right now like that path towards going to college getting your degree I feel like it's getting less and less prestigious like the college degree is no longer this barrier anymore it seems like it's become so common that it's lost its meaning you know it also is common is geds but we wouldn't tell people to drop out of middle school I mean yeah college degrees are common and they're ubiquitous but I mean that's because the level of Education needed the American workers more productive today than they have been at any point in history right like the level of Education everything you need for a society today to participate in the economy is getting higher and higher and higher and higher so of course degrees are becoming more and more and more than Norm I just I agree that there are paths that you can take that don't involve college that will set you up for success in life but I don't see any like regular General things that I would just push a bunch of people off to like think it's up to the individual at that point that doesn't mean anything everything in life is up to the individual but the reality is we can look at data we can look at numbers and we can see like on average like you know how do you perform if you go to this area in life how do you perform if you go to this area how you know if you get a high school degree you're probably going to be [ __ ] if you go to the trades you do better than high school if you do a four-year degree in college especially in stem you're probably going to be doing the best but if you're outside of stem and being a lawyer and stuff like that I just know that like so many people in my own personal life because I'm kind of at that age now 25 where a lot of my friends family Etc have just gotten out of college recently and they're kind of just like okay well what do I do if they don't have a stem degree well then they probably have Rich families [ __ ] them let them study what they want have fun if you want to go and be an English major or a history major or an art major I mean if you have passion for that then do that if you go to school and you're like I'm going to be a history major and then you come like God I can't find a job that pays me 85k 95k a year you're probably [ __ ] [ __ ] passions a lot of them are just like they're 18 I'm going to go to college kind of bum around for four years figure out what I want to do by the end of it I might know what I want to do what would they have done in the interim like what would they have done outside of college you think they would have magically stumbled into their passion okay I I think they'd understand more if they go into the real world and get actual experience but like what experience like we talk like when you guys talk about experience I feel like you guys ever read The Odyssey or um or The Iliad it sounds like you're talking about like these heroic Journeys where it's like get your backpack on and go and travel through all of Europe and work a collection of odd jobs and all these different places and like at the end of all of this magical excitement and Adventure you'll discover who you are the reality is at 18 if you don't go to college what that usually means is it's time to go find a [ __ ] job and start working for the rest of my life cuz what other experience try [ __ ] jobs in different careers and say you know what maybe say career what are the careers I'm thinking like you work at McDonald's and then you go and you work at [ __ ] Walmart and you what are the career jobs you're getting 181 19 with no experience I like to think that you could be anyone's assistant what does that mean let's just say you want to be an artist you could find an artist in your area and say hey I I just want to work with you see what you do I'll do anything for you I talk a lot about doing this this is what's worked really well for me and if you're going to be in college chances are you're going to spend your time in a classroom or spend your time actually doing something so if you spend your time working with someone or in an industry that you want to be in you could determine pretty quickly if you like it or not I think that would work if you're a really hot girl and you're trying to inter with guys because they'll hire you or have you be their assistant because they want to [ __ ] you but other than that realistically I'm just trying to think like I think passion and enthusiasm are something I'm sorry but it work for me I don't want to sound like disrespectful towards younger people but like passion is a dime of dozen I don't give a [ __ ] about passion and I don't think anybody that works well gives a [ __ ] about passion what you care about is what have you done so show me a portfolio are you reliable and on time can you return an email in 24 hours are you like actually a reliable person that could show up the way that you need to be and then like yeah what what can you do for me I don't think a random 18-year-old showing up at the doorstep of like a 30-year-old musician like I really want to help an intern or whatever unless this guy got like anything in his past like maybe you jack didn't have anything in his past Jack just cold emailed me I like hey I want to come work several times over the course of several months so I was very persistent constantly showing up at the top of the Inbox and then finally I like six months of emails what was your why did you hire Jack well he didn't hire me per se he just said hey I have all this like extra work and I just want to offload it and I said give me anything let me provide value and I just inserted myself kind of in the business and that was that what was your how did you email them what were you offering how did I email him I offered him literally anything I was like I mean I think I mentioned in the email like yo if if you want me to walk ramsy which is his cat or pick up Ramsey's poop I will do it just tell me one thing I live an hour away I could drive to you do whatever you want whenever you want it and I'll just provide value and then finally he got back to me and he wasn't the only T person that I hit like I hit three creators in total and I sent each of them several emails what another Creator got back to me so what do you and why did you say yes uh a lot of that was his persistence I saw six months of email and he was at the top of the inbox at a time where I was really trying to offload this work and I was offering people in my office at the time will you help me with this work I'll pay you 20 bucks an hour no one did it for like two months and it was building up I saw Jack's email I was like I'll do anything I thought you know what let's put this to the test will he actually do it you want to do these Facebook emails let me know Jack was like yes I'll do it he finished it overnight and then after that I saw his work ethic how quick he was he was very responsive and I said you know what I'll take you to to dinner let's talk about it and I really appreciate your help and then from there I gave him all these other tasks I was like okay you know what you did well in this I have this other thing do you want to go through my emails and just pick people who you think would be good on my second Channel yes absolutely I'll do it okay here's what I'm looking for just let me know I understand once you got initially in yeah I don't know I have hundreds of people that email me for stuff like that I would never just take a random person like I would need to see like what you shooting up a little bit too high up the ladder In fairness at this point like I think if if you're gonna try to find a mentor relationship I think you need to go like a few steps ahead of you rather than just shooting for the St I had at the time like 500,000 subscribers which was big but small enough where I was still doing everything 100% myself so every email was like me reading it personally but that's also how it got like everywhere every business I've ever gone into or every bit of work I've done has been just purely asking the same thing a mentor menty relationship I reached out to H3 H3 he had millions of subscribers at the time and he' get back to me because his inbox was probably flooded with I'm sure it's possible to do this I just don't think it'll be the norm like how many people emailed you asking to help you said he was at the top of your inbox so there are a ton of other people asking to help probably but so he was one of how many funny I get some of those Instagram ones where it's like day one of asking Graham for blank day two they'll give up on like day 10 but but you think if they went to day 100 you'd be like I am going to hire you no not hire but someone's like day one until Graham calls my cell phone or like I I'm not talking about hiring somebody based on 100 DMS but I'm talking about a lowlevel lift till Graham comments on my YouTube videos since Graham calls me like a minor lift thing and they'll give up after like a week week and a half like when I started working as a real estate agent I would go to open houses every single Sunday for months just to talk to other agents and it took months someone offered me was like hey you know what you want to come work under me go for it okay neither of you have children right no if you did have kids that were like 15 16 years old and they were thinking like I think I might want to go to college you would say at 18 actually I think what you should do is you just start emailing a bunch of people to see if you can work on no I would say what do you want to do what do you want to do with what is a college degree going to give you that you can't go and do right now what what is the barrier that a college degree is going to help you overcome and if they say well I want to be a lawyer and to do that I need to pass the elet and to do that I need to absolutely you want to be a doctor I need the college degree but if they said you know what I don't really know um then college is just pushing off that decision of am I going to do lat yeah the other thing if they came to me and say hey you know what I want to go to college because it looks like a lot of fun and I want to go because I want to be around a whole bunch of people my age and we're in the same then at least I understand why but if it's I don't know what I want to do and I feel like this you know everyone else is going so I should go I would really say like why do you want to do this is it just be everyone else you're conformed they weren't sure they're like I don't know what I want to do yet hopefully I I figur out my first two years or whatever you would say don't do that you should I would I would see if there's an alternative I would say if you don't know what you want to do what do you I feel like as a parent you would know by age 16 17 where their passions are are they really good at something do they hate math do they love science if they if they love science is there a field in there that they want to go into does that require a degree I'd really try to narrow it down for the person the idea I think is being intentional about your decisions rather than just kind of following the norm and thinking that that's going to be the solution to your problems rather than like actually so I don't disagree with that ever intentionality is always good and I think if you're intentional there might be some paths that aren't college that are better than just wasting time in college I don't disagree with that I just don't like the idea that it feels like when we talk about not going to college we're talking about a whole group of people that are kind of like lost in college and then we say well if you just don't go to college and do something else you'd be so much more successful that's probably not going to be the case and I think I think if you're kind of not sure what to do after high school this is what I would say for the group of people that aren't sure what to do after high school they're probably better served going to college even if it takes them 5 years to get their degree than to just start working right out of high school because the the the fear or the possibility of getting stuck in the rat race when you're 18 or 19 and then never being able to revisit any other opportunity I just think is too scary in my opinion but because life can set in like really quick to where now you're one year out of high school you might have a relationship you might have kind of like a job and it kind of pays so now you're cut off from like a lot of financial aid you're already out of high school for a year maybe two now you're 20 do you really want to go [ __ ] study again and do homework and blah blah blah and now you're you're 25 and maybe you've got a kid and it's like you're not going to Apprentice you're not going to do internships you're 25 you're working maybe you're like the manager at some you know Supermarket or some [ __ ] and now you're just that's kind of the rest of your life there is no like go back like when you're 18 you've got this really unique opportunity where it's the only time in your life where you still get to exclusively study exclusively invest in yourself not have to worry about like working a job taking care of a family any [ __ ] and if you want to not do the college thing that's fine but I think you have to have a really like a damn good idea of what you want do as an alternative it's better to wander aimlessly in college than it is to wander aimlessly outside of college and then to never ever ever have an opportunity for that's my take I don't know if I necessarily agree with that I think if you're one of the 82% of students pulled up the statistic that goes to to college and doesn't study stem you should really consider what job you're trying to get with whatever degree you're pursuing and I think maybe if we remove the stigma uh the taboo idea of not going to college straight after high school and pursuing some alternative career and maybe like like you know maybe provided more information and and routes that you can and paths that you can take in your life I think it would be a lot more productive yeah speaking of working uh what are your thoughts on the fire movement uh what is that Financial Independence retirement early grinding away in your 20s early 30s saving religiously to be able to retire by 35 if you enjoy it go for it I guess some guy said something to me I thought was really [ __ ] stupid and I had no counter to it and it was really interesting is I don't I was talking to some other it must have been a streamer YouTuber guy or something and I think we were both like in our late 20s and I save a lot of my money just not even because I'm a good sa I just don't spend much because I don't need much um and this guy blew through his money like crazy and I just remember asking I was like are you not worried that like once this whole streaming [ __ ] ends or whatever that when you're like 40 or 50 you're going to be like completely bankrupt and the guy was like uh I probably will be I'm probably going to run out of money yeah probably like a decade or two or whatever or earlier and I'm like okay is that not like worrisome to and he's like well why the [ __ ] would I want to have fun in my 40s and 50s when I could have fun right now in my 20s and I wanted to say like what a stupid thing to say and I actually had no response to that whatsoever so I don't know I think there's like good arguments on both sides if you want to do that grind away and you know the fire stuff and be financially independent retired by 3540 that's cool but I mean your 20s and your 30s and hopefully your 40s like these are unique fun cool times in your life and if you grind all of that away like working like crazy I don't know is it really worth it I'm not sure I think it' be up to an individual to decide that yeah what do you guys fall on that my experience has been it's it's been 100% worth it like for me my 20s from 18 to what cuz he finds enjoyment and purpose in work yeah cuz I'm doing fire I can retire right now but I'm not I'm not like a I'm grinding away in my life I love my job every [ __ ] day I love my but if I was like trying to go for a partner at a law firm or if I was like doing you know Hospital related stuff or if I was like just grinding hard small business like working every single part every single day and I really hated my life but I got to make it to 35 or 40 to retire I think that's fundamentally different I don't know I just feel like there's nothing in my 20s that I couldn't do in my 30s here are the things that would scare me is it one is health related stuff could crop up still a minority but like in your 30s you're more likely to run into some stupid like chronic pain or some like chronic condition or whatever that starts to inhibit your ability to have fun a little bit that would be scary minority people not a big deal but the second thing I think would be your in congruency with other people in life and I think that would [ __ ] you up the most be my guess so for instance if you're in your 20s and everybody else in their 20s and you're all kind of like having fun and goofing off and being a little irresponsible you all get to do that together and then when you get to your 30s you're all kind of like getting more mature and then you get to do that together I think it would be kind of weird if you're like 33 I'm 33 $2 and5 million okay in my investment account I feel really good in life I think I want to like slow down and chill right now and then I look at my friends and they're like well we just had our second kids we just got another Mortgage in the house life is really stressful right now we had all of our fun 10 years ago it's time to grow the [ __ ] up okay Graham we're busy we're trying to live life now and you're like okay well I want to have fun now I wonder yeah how do you would you ever worry about that or how want to be the 130y old in AIA yeah all the college kids yeah then you go to the college parties then you go okay yeah I I agree 100% with you I think like I always question why am I working so hard at least on the things I don't enjoy I'm very much the same as like both of you where there's a large portion of my work where I absolutely love it there's a very small portion of my work where I'm like okay I really like it stresses me out it's like the 8020 thing um and I question myself why am I working so hard for this to make money what do I want the money for to be able to live a life that I could currently probably be living like playing pickle ball a couple nights a week like hanging out with my friends playing poker and stuff like that that's the type of stuff I enjoy and I don't want to sacrifice that now because I'm just working so hard to be able to eventually do that down the line yeah I find that you find people who you're in the same spot in life with though like you mentioned that uh you know people are settling down having kids not being in the same spot but from my experience and this could just be through YouTube that it's less about a person's age and more about like what they're doing with their time right now so I gravitate towards the people that are in the same place as me in life regardless of if they're 22 or they're 62 yeah and I mean you can do that if you don't mind that but for more conventional work I don't know how people would feel because I agree like the average age of the person that was like coming through my stream and [ __ ] is like [ __ ] like 24 or something these people are all chill how old are you guys 33 33 335 oh yeah you're a kid okay I can barely even send a look at you okay Jesus um but yeah no like everybody's like super young so it's um I don't know like if you were in conventional work grinding away like that if you could very easily be like 33 35 have a lot of money and then go and find a bunch of like 20 to 25 year olds who are kind of like ready to like chill and you know hang out and have fun I think it would be kind of off yeah yeah I found a lot of older people who are in The Chill mode like and older people I mean in like their 40s but uh it seems as though no matter where you are in life you could find other people who have the same interests and are in the same spot as you that you could relate to sure here's like another question I would have two two other things um one relates to like dieting okay so I think that when it comes to like putting together a good diet if you're like if that's something you're trying to do I think rather than having like the pain horrible Agony diet for a few months or like a diet we have to have cheat days like find ways to make a healthy diet that's like fun um but healthy like that's easily doable right get rid of like super processed foods like the ultra high carb [ __ ] um the super sugar like just like really dumb [ __ ] like that um and and you can generally put together a diet that is like it's fun but like it it's healthy and you have like all of your needs kind of met I feel like the fire stuff is similar like is it not possible to work and spend in a way that's like responsible in terms of your finances but is like you're still working hard but you can also like have fun wouldn't that be like a better way to go through life rather than to frontload all of your stuff and then hope to reap the rewards but then you make a balance between do I save 50% do I save 30% 20% 15 if I if I say 15% I have to work an extra 20 years that you just find a trade sure because my second question would be for you um for you two especially you do you think you'll ever do you think you would ever actually retire early maybe you think so I do okay yeah but like the Pod I keep going back to this the podcast is something for me I could do for a very long time the main Channel probably give that up at some point okay uh travel I would love to do I'd probably I like tinkering on things are like collecting things are like Hobbies I think you really enjoy the podcast right now and if the podcast were to die out and you decided to quit your main Channel eventually you'd get this urge again like I think most people do where you're just like okay I want to start working on something and that's just it you just currently only have the podcast right and back in the day you probably thought I could do this main Channel thing for a really long time no I knew I knew immediately immediately that you'd have to stop oh yeah oh yeah that that's why I was so careful about saving it all because I just thought this is not going to last forever because I've been watching YouTube since like 2009 and I see the lifespan of creators like YouTube has been my TV since then and I see okay creators got big the last maybe two three years I was going to say yeah three five years is like your upper limit for the average exactly so and then I saw some creators are having more longevity so I thought immediately going into it best case 5 to seven years and that's like if everything goes right five to seven years what about real estate agenting did you feel like you could do that forever um I didn't want to so but I loved it I loved doing it but I didn't I hated having to for not like I hated needing a sale to happen so I hated the going into it being like if this deal doesn't close it's going to ruin my day and like you know I'm not going to be able to save it I hated doing that so every deal I closed it was like okay I'm going to pretend like this is the last money I'm ever going to make and how could I make this last for as long as possible and that was my reason for saving that makes sense I think I I agree with you you guys just draw the line differently on the spectrum of okay how much you supposed to work how much you supposed to save and play and have fun like the the type of people that I feel would be driven to do that fire stuff I feel like are the type of people that wouldn't be happy to be like ah 35 I'm done with everything time to chill but I could be wrong like if people always be driven to do I go on the financial independent subreddits all the time and it does seem like it's split evenly in the middle there's some people who have these hobbies and they quit their job and they retire to something and there's other people who have just always been working and then they quit because they can and then they're aimless and depressed and they have no idea what they're doing and they're sad and they just go back to work I I really it seems like a 5050 split depending on the type of person is there anything else that Financial YouTubers are talking about that you don't like um I feel like the basics should always be stressed so your IRA contribution should probably be maxed out if you're trying to save uh 401K matches absolutely are what you're going for um and then uh if you're trying to figure out like whenever people are trying to figure out like living expenses people focus on income I think sometimes more than outflow like making a budget is probably one of the most important things you can ever do when you're trying to control for financial anything if you don't know where your money is going um and then otherwise just like boring so it seems like we're on the same because that's exactly what I talk about so it seems like when we're talking about like Financial people you're more so referencing the hustle culture the hustle culture crypto all that [ __ ] [ __ ] those are those are two entirely different segments of like Finance YouTube yeah gotcha like the Gary ve sort of you know work work work okay um I wanted to ask you this if you think there should be because we're talking about spending money Progressive penalties in terms of yeah I love so this this came up when I saw in another country someone got it yeah was it the $80,000 speeding ticket think yeah it was either Norway or Finland I think I think it was Norway yeah how much money did they have it was based on an income of like $10 million a year like 20 million a year yeah [ __ ] them and so but but apparently it was only going like 8 miles an hour over the limit or something like that but that was the 80 grand so I heard you talking about before if someone goes and gets a speeding ticket here in the United States 500 bucks for someone who's working minimum wage that'll screw them up for like maybe half a year and their insurance rates will go up it could be a devastating thing for someone with money the $500 speeding ticket is just you're going to basically rip it up give it to a a lawyer I haven't got a speed in a long time are they 500 on average now uh I got one recently how fast are you going I was going allegedly allegedly allegedly they said I was going I was in a 65 going faster than 60 no no gosh no no no it was not no allegedly 100 no no it wasn't that much over the limit allegedly it was a 65 it was take going to 79 didn't he it was it was something stupid it was something stupid but anyway what state am I right are we in we're not in California we're in Nevada $500 damn no it wasn't 500 that that one was like 370 bucks oh okay but then you also have to think of you know if if you opt for traffic school then that's another 80 bucks on top of that all these little things that add up you know could it could be close to $500 okay so you like Progressive penalties yeah I did too I've never heard about that until when we were going over our questions before you came over and I think that's actually it makes a lot of sense I think it's weird that you can pay to like not have [ __ ] bother you it seems kind of strange like criminal stuff yeah I feel like for for the legal system honestly people that use the legal system as a weapon against other people especially if you're like punching downwards I feel like you should suffer in the same way that other people are suffering well the legal system is highly flawed because if if you're somebody with money you could basically write out any lawsuit and you could allege anything you want to and the other person has to pay to fight it I mean kind of I mean there's vexa litigation if you've got a good law team you can get stuff like you can do motions for summary judgment and say that this is a [ __ ] court case there are some protections against that how much is it going to cost to get to that point 20 grand 15 grand depending on the case that's a heavy retainer for depending on the type of case but I mean like hopefully five grand or less but I mean I agree that like yeah the legal system can be weighted in favor of like more wealthy people for sure absolutely that's undeniable yeah yeah it's just not as hopeless as people make it out to be but yeah I think it's kind of weird that criminal stuff especially can be reliant on your financial means in terms of your engagement with the system and How likely you are to come out good on the other end that's not cool it's really about hiring I guess the best lawyer that you can yeah who just argues better than the other lawyer we had a divorce lawyer on who was talking about how he wins cases against other inexperienced lawyers just because he's so much better and the people that could afford to hire him know that he has a higher success rate because of that mhm you're going through a divorce right now I'm done with my divorce you're done with a divorce right now I I heard divorces could take a very long time no contest divorce like two weeks really you just sign the papers and send them to a judge and they look at it and they give you a judgment you're done yeah and you had a prenup no a short marriage it was like less than five years so so what does that mean if it's a short marriage versus a long marriage uh longer marriage there's going to be a stronger case to be made for alimony um but it also depends on if the earning potentials of your partner was hurt so if they stopped working or if you've got children or shared assets or anything like that yeah you were in an open marriage which means each partner can sleep with other people and have these like kind of micro relationships with other people a lot of people were speculating that it would eventually fail what is your response to those people that say what did you think was going to happen I mean most relationships fail I had four monogamous ones before this open one and they all failed that is true most Rel I guess the difference was that you weren't married to those married my high school girlfriend yeah okay it was yeah got me so I mean most relationships fa the next Rel I mean I can make a prediction the next relationship will definitely be an open relationship because it's probably the only sty I would do and that one will probably fail as well I just statistically speaking like it will probably happen were there but were there signs that it was going in this direction um ahead of time yeah for sure but there were just things had to learn about myself then I yeah what you have to learn about yourself um I think because of the way that I grew up I'm very much a uh like I have to do everything and I'm like very very very independent and I always thought that was a really good character trait and I think it is for like business stuff but I think for relationships I think it's really bad because you tend to take um uh rather than ever assigning any responsibility or blame to my partner I would just assume that I need to figure out everything for myself and then I'm also like very not reliant on my partner for anything which I I also thought was like a benefit but it's not it just makes the other person feel like unwanted or unneeded go into that a little bit more because I'm I don't want to say I'm similar but I'm very much the same way where if something happens I deep down I Look to myself and I'm like how could I have handled that because because you can't dictate what another person's going to respond with or do and I I look at that like how could I improve myself where did I go wrong yeah and I like to think of myself as like very independent and I don't want to like throw too much on my partner so I think the issue here is um every single piece of advice I'm about to give uh a lot of the people that say this are actually the most energy vampiric subhuman piece of [ __ ] bucks in the world so it's hard um it's like that whenever you see somebody tweet like oh like everybody around me always needs so much and I wish somebody would just like take care of me for once 99% of the time that's an energy [ __ ] vampire okay who actually is the most like energy consuming sucking person that doesn't help anybody else out except for when I can benefit them blah blah blah blah so takech me I say with a grain of salt maybe I am that person um basically uh I would get into conflict where it felt like my partner was able to justify every bad action that did on my prior bad actions and I had done bad things like I'm not perfect I do [ __ ] up I make mistakes um but every time they made a mistake it was because of mistakes that I'd made and in my mind I'm like okay well [ __ ] like well what can I do to change this in the future like can I do this or can I change this or can I do that and every time there was a fault that was my fault like I like it's my fault and I'll do what I can for it um and then I'll see what behaviors I can change but I never could like tell my partner like hey can you not do this or can you make this change or can you stop this Behavior because then it was like the end of the world so but that was I set that Dynamic up because I'd gone through the whole relationship never being able to like make any asks for anything in terms of behavior from the other person and it kind of yeah not was not good I think yeah got it so in a new relationship you're going to be more outspoken yeah I just have a hard time asking for things from people I kind of just like Meme and joke even professionally sometimes I've gotten better at it recently the past like two years especially but I'll kind of like if somebody's making me uncomfortable I usually just like meme or joke it off or it's whatever until they reach a Breaking Point and then I cut them out of my life completely and for a people that's really confusing because they're like okay well hold on how did I just get cut out completely I didn't know I was even bothering you and it's like well and then I'll say something well come on you should have known this is obvious but then when I think about it it's actually not obvious because I laugh and meme everything off so it's like people don't actually know did this come out of the blue for you um no I don't think so no no no is there anything you would have done differently leading up to the situation that happened um like getting divorced no I'm talking about maybe you you could have done something prior to then that maybe would have had a different outcome or you could have saved something I think my general behavior in the relationship of not like putting like very um not being able to make asks for things or accepting or tolerating certain types of behavior um that I were are probably not okay I guess so like having like there I need somebody that shares my values in terms of what's important and what's not important in a relationship I guess yeah and if somebody doesn't share those same values so for instance like trashing your partner to another person to another friend that's something that I traditionally would never do that and I need somebody that like is aligned on that if I let somebody else do that and I'm like well they view things differently than I do whatever that's probably not a good thing I think yeah okay you seem to be very matter of fact about it how did it affect you personally or emotionally going through S something like this was it really challenging because it it's kind of weird hearing you talk about it in such a I would say nonchalant way yeah my emotional Baseline is just really really really high so as long as I'm not like my life isn't [ __ ] if I go to sleep I wake up I'm usually a little bit better you know every day and I just kind of yeah keep going I got do you ever wish you had more emotional variants M I don't think so maybe I'm not sure I've talked to a few people Dr k a couple other people about that I don't know sometimes I wonder if I miss some things in life because my emotional variance maybe isn't that high but I don't think so I think I'm doing fine because being super sad MH can be a really pleasant experience oddly enough because you can find the Beauty and the sadness maybe I mean it's all part of the experience [ __ ] that no I don't you don't think so at all [ __ ] that no it doesn't sound like fun to me interesting um like watching a sad movie yeah that's definitely I would say that's kind of like a proxy for what I'm saying okay then I do Sadness by proxy then okay interesting well I I respect the the emotional Baseline do you think that most people have more control over their emotions than what they think probably not most people probably have less control over their emotions than they think that's Pro that's true for me I think there are times where I'll just be a [ __ ] dick and I'm just being just not a not a fun person to be and then I'll like eat a meal and after I eat I'm like oh [ __ ] I think I was hungry for like the past 6 hours cuz I feel so much better now I'll go back to my chat and unban like six people that I banned I was just like in a [ __ ] whatever mood so yeah I I think that most people's moods or Vibes are impacting their emotional state more than they realize sometimes the chemical reactions going on in their whatever's happening there that's really interesting I I'm more of a proponent of like I think people can force feeling whatever way nearly at every given situation obviously there are certain um random statistical anomaly like bad stuff will happen and you'll feel sad but I think for the most part like if you feel yourself being very impatient with something you just have to like have an instant of gratitude and you can force yourself feeling more positive about it I don't 100% disagree I would qualify it a little bit like you can have like feelings and then responses to those feelings and if you enact like certain behaviors or if you try to have like certain thoughts and response to feelings you can slowly change the feelings I think like that yeah there's like a feedback loop there that if anytime you feel this way about a particular person or thing you just think like okay maybe this isn't the best way I need to do this a little bit differently if you do that that process I think over time can change your thoughts yeah was there any Financial impact of having a divorce um no just good I just have to worry about myself now I would say interesting so it wasn't like expensive you didn't have to pay out anything I think I paid like $2,000 for attorney and all the filing fees or whatever yeah that's really fascinating was it no contest divorce I mean it's super cheap yeah you hear a lot of people say oh you're going to lose half yeah most people are [ __ ] [ __ ] why would you should never lose losing half implies a whole bunch of first of all only 10% of marriages the end of them even involve alimony um division of assets is probably a good thing you should be dividing assets you probably should be losing because you're losing half your partnership that you used to acquire those assets right if you're a man and you work and the only reason you were able to afford that house because a wife stayed home and took care of kids then yeah of course she should be entitled to something like she sacrificed her entire career and enabled you and empowered you to go and work that job I mean I think you should yeah do you regret having a relationship so public no everything in my life is public and would you get married again um I don't know I'm not like a big marriage guy we got married because she needed the green card to live in the US because I don't want to have a longdistance relationship that sucks so yeah but I'm not like a huge marriage dude and hopefully I don't have any more European Brides so you know and you think the next relationships that you get into will be open almost for sure yeah almost for sure yeah I still can't help believe what I mentioned the first time you came on the show which was I feel like the standards for levels of Attraction and love and intimacy are just lower for the people that have open relationships because I can't imagine myself I haven't been this way my entire life I don't plan on being this way for the rest of my life where you know I find somebody and I'm happy to share this person with a bunch of other people like I feel like I just kind of want them for myself and I want them to want me for thems okay what do you think about this sound super boring I don't even think about like want this person to want me for themselves it's like not like when I'm with somebody I'm never thinking like intimately like God I'm so happy that she just wants me and not anybody else she not like a thing that's every in my head the reason you're not even feeling that in the first place it's like these deep emotional feelings about somebody else that's what I'm saying there's like a deeper level of intimacy or connection what does that have to do with whether or not they're with somebody else when they're not with you I think what Jack's trying to say is if you had like maybe a deeper connection or I'm saying like I think that the connections are slightly more shallow in open relationships because of what is okay for for to happen in a relationship okay I mean I could just say I think the connections in monogamous relationships are way more shallow because if that person is with anybody else all of a sudden everything you feel about that person is like now held at risk I don't think necessarily shallow or less shallow think just different people different approaches to relationships I guess I don't know do you love your child less if you have a second one I don't think that that's necessarily the same thing I didn't say it's the same thing I'm just saying that like when when I when I'm with somebody if I really love somebody there's a lot of things that I'm thinking about for why I love this person it might be the way that we spend time together uh it might be some level of like physical attraction it might be some level of like sexual and romantic chemistry it might be like their sense of humor their ambition it might be like personality traits it might be Hobbies or things we do together but it's never my life is it like I'm so happy that they're not going to be with somebody else when we stop hanging out that's just not like a thing that I think about much H and if it and if we were just together and we weren't hanging with anyone else I don't know why that would makeing me like them anymore or I would care anymore about that right I I would say it's mo more so like the sacrifice that each person makes to the other person why would I want them to sacrifice that because I think it's a part of the of the relationship I that sounds horrible why would I like what if I what have I found out that my partner every morning for 30 minutes like stuck like needles into their nipples and like every day like God I'm so happy you did that sacrifice like why would I want them to sacrifice I don't know what I don't think sacrifice is good in and up I think it's the idea of putting someone else else above yourself so I think in most relationships will say you'll both make sacrifices to be in that relationship and if you give a little you take a little it shows that you value the other person yeah but the goal should always be to minimize the sacrifice I don't want my partner sacrificing more than they need to right like if I'm sick I'd want them to take care of me but I don't want them to like clean up like all my [ __ ] around my apartment because I'm a child and I can't do anything for me right like whatever sacrifice we're making should be in service to something that we feel is important if you think monogamy is important or sexual exclusivity is important then the sacrifice is yeah I think good or respectable but if you don't care about that then why I don't know I wouldn't like sacrifice isn't good just because it's sacrifice right like I could go right now into traffic and sacrifice myself and die and you'd be like what the [ __ ] did you it's like shouldn't you be grateful i s for your podcast I sacrifice myself for the podcast it's like you didn't actually help with anything you didn't do anything yeah okay I suppose for me I just think like if I'm in a relationship with someone I want them constantly choosing me over anybody else so technically that would be an open marriage but they're just not executing on the openness of the marriage you know I think any relationship is technically open because you could just go and leave if you really wanted to but then you end the relation everything as an open Rel but then you end the but at the sacrifice of ending the relationship sure I think I think there's some level of people wanting to feel like they're the number one choice in every regard for their partner they might want to have that feeling so the exclusivity is really important because it reinforces that yeah where do you think morals come from probably the same thing as the political beliefs we inherit them from our social groups basically the social groups mhm so if you're born into a Christian Islamic uh you know American family like your morals are going to suspiciously resemble basically all the people around you probably because that's what you got them from yeah so when did you start adopting your current philosophical and moral beliefs was that influenced by your environment um probably so I grew up like very Catholic went to a Catholic school until I graduated high school um around 1516 I started to kind of like pivot towards atheism and when I became atheist I started to read a lot of or I read two books by Ein Rand and I noticed afterwards that I was like full on like this is the smartest person ever I'm like a card carrying objectivist like this is the best thing ever I love this so much and then I realized after like six months I was like okay well hold on I just ditched my religion and then I read one author and the first author that I read I happen to agree with every single thing they said and I want to follow her to the ends of the Earth I'm probably just a stupid kid I'm probably just like believing whatever the [ __ ] stuff I read so I need to like take a step back I need to not let other people like influence me so much I need to figure out like on a fundamental core level like what's important to me and then once I'm kind of like IR out these fundamental core beliefs then I can from there start to like extrapolate these into the political world around me basically yeah or the social world around me I guess yeah so I try to be relatively independent but I mean invariably I'm going to be influenced by Whatever video games I'm playing movies or anime or TV shows I'm watching or the people around me the country in and everything as well right like there's no way that it's just by chance I happen to be like an institutionally support uh Social Democrat who believes in liberalism and free market capitalism and also a you know a person that lives in the United States of America so I mean we spent the last three months carefully crafting this this right here is a tier list of political commentators and we want you to fill it out okay TI list how like who gives the most insightful political commentary who's the funniest who's the most Rec overall your thoughts about this person okay yeah so it could be accuracy comedy everything good faith bad faith Etc oh yeah do you want to pull that closer you could just pull the computer closer yeah that's fine Alex Jones We've Got deplorable behavior for Sandy Hook uh factually inaccurate all over the place um you know allaround horrible contributor to misinformation also pretty [ __ ] funny pretty memi I would say he's like a uh a to S tier in terms of Comedy uh he gave us the Kanye West interviews with that black Hood and the um neton Yahoo stupid thing so all in all I'll put him in a seat here I'll balance him out there okay was a big judgment against him for that Sandy Hook stuff so um is that Anna casparian yes um fiery political personality uh on The Young Turks though a little bit far left for me um tries to do her best I give her props for that I'll stick her up here on the B tier yeah AOC Progressive way to the left of me don't appreciate that but she's grown a lot as a uh uh lawmaker it's a congress person she's working better in office tries to reach out to young people I can appreciate that except for the podcast but well you know one day please come on our show how many Subs did you have when you tried then many times we we're still how many subscribers did you have when you tried last uh 100,000 yeah something like that do you now 950,000 get to a million and then maybe she'll think okay okay yeah I I think everyone subscribe please if you want podcast subscribe thank you for telling them to subscribe Des Andrew Yang too um you should be able to get Yang on now we Tred to really damn uh Ben Shapiro you know largest right-leaning I think probably one of the most popular right leaning people in the United States right now if not the most M um unless Tucker is still beating up with older people um you know but again massive political disagreements he tries to be fact based but these are my political enemies can I really put a political enemy higher than a c tier I'm not sure you could if I think I think you could if you if you highly respect them no don't put that on me don't put that but you put him on the same tier as Alex Jones do you really feel that way well think about it okay Ben Shapiro is more factual than Alex Jones which he got downrated heavily for but Alex Jones is a lot more entertaining than Ben Shapiro and Ben Shapiro doesn't really have like that hilarious entertainment Factor right like Alex Jones does number one chart rap song okay well if it was Ben and Tom McDonald you know what his uh review of the Barbie movie was fantastic was it yeah I might have watched that I don't remember okay we don't need to influence him no that's fair Bernie Sanders you know Progressive he tried his best he got young people energized a little bit but his whole campaign fell apart and he didn't really do a good job at picking people that weren't extreme radicals and You' got crazies like Briana Joy gray and everybody after I'm gonna put him on the seat tier but he tried is that the best president in my entire lifetime in the United States my God inflation reduction act the chips Act act the heroes act bipartisan infrastructure legislation uh pulled us out of Afghanistan thank God got us out of the uh Saudi anti- Yemen Coalition uh managed to uh reduce our troop commitments in places like Syria and uh Iraq uh is responsibly handling Ukraine oh my God just how what's not to like about this guy but he's getting a little scile I'll put him on the S tier okay wow love this guy great president uh you know what Jen similar to Alex Jones I like him a lot uh cuz he you know I might put him down here cuz Alex is a bit funnier but he's also he's on my political side a little bit more and he comes on my show so he gets big points for that so I'll put him right here for the C here Chris is a really good guy I think he's pretty um entertaining uh I think I agree with most of the stuff he says I don't think I've ever heard him disagree I don't think we've had disagreements before but also I don't know where he stands politically oh thank you um I'll I'll put him here on the a tier he seems like a I've I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about him or seen anything anything bad about him ever no yeah not that I'm aware of actually is kind of suspicious what we have a good yeah good yeah it's my hair blurry um Steven Crowder uh F tier uh constantly doesn't talk to me uh is mean to his wife on video camera uh tried to blow up the daily wire failed miserably uh on that stupid contract [ __ ] um what go I'm just I'm just doing this so we have a better face cam superimpose the face okay fine whatever yeah [ __ ] Steven Crowder far right dumb everything he does um who's this guy I can't see who's that Jack Don Lemon oh CNN um I don't have strong feelings but he CNN I'll put him on the C tier [ __ ] it Elon Musk it's just all of his political takes are horrible uh he did get me unbanned no not personally but I was unbanned from Twitter so so he gets bumped with the deer for that why were you banned on Twitter it's it depends on which account you're talking about I don't no um let's just let's just try to get this a little bit so your face okay fine um who's this guy Gavin Nome oh Jesus why are these pictures so small we had we had to make it small to have it all fit uh I just watched gam do a couple debates and speeches you know we agree I think on some things I don't know much about the substance of his beliefs I do know that I lived in California and there were a lot of homeless people and a lot of taxes and I think those two things should never go together so um but he was really good on camera I'll stick him here on the B tier okay [Music] um who is that who is that oh that's Hassan perer oh Hassan [ __ ] uh supports terrorists uh champagne socialist uh just bad political takes on everything can't read more than a Twitter thread I mean what do I what is to like if I can make a lower tier I would Jesse Lee Peterson uh he's funny but also perpetually sounds like a stroke victim and has some crazy beliefs I'll put him down here with Elon on the D tier these guys would be good friends in real life I'm sure uh is that Joe Rogan yes um big perve of misinformation but at least he brings a lot of people together to talk uh and he's reasonably entertaining oh I'll stick him on the C tier I guess is he really going on the same tier as Don Lemon uh H we'll bump we'll bump Don up uh you know what John Oliver I think he's still the left of me but I don't really hear him [ __ ] up ever I think last week tonight it's generally a pretty good show I don't think I've ever heard them listen I watched their Israel Palestine stuff and I thought it was actually like pretty good which says a lot in this environment so you know I'll put him on the a tier yeah appreciate him Jordan Peterson you know he talked to me so he get big points for that but um man he I just feel like he's off the deep end right now with the all the crazy stuff you believe so I'm going to put him on the CER as well KLA Harris I don't know what she does she's the vice president I feel like I've never hear anything from her ever she's visit visited the Border once cool isn't she that's her Department of the vice president is to visit the Border over and over again I think it was some other title that she had I don't know I saw on some stupid Twitter thread Charlie Kirk is an idiot uh and a loser uh and believes horrible things politically so he can go down there um who is that Lex Lex Lex Lex hello uh sets up amazing conversations uh has helped me talk to people that I had never thought I'd be able to talk to before like Ben Shapiro and then hopefully other people at the end of this month uh you know tries to bring people together uh is a little bit you know too nice to everybody sometimes but yeah I'm he's up here he's my S here he's fighting for a buddy of the year right now in my stream okay so good job is that vosch oh uh yeah Jesus Christ man daily wire talent that is not uh benjiro is in a pretty rough State I would say uh and here's another one of them yep uh yikes nulls right yeah just it's just like whatever you can say to like bash people on the left that's like what these two do all the time and I'm pretty sure these guys have both collectively spent like more of their career talking about how much they hate trans people than literally every other subject combined which is just really wacky to me is that Fuentes mhm okay well I will I'm going to bump Fuentes up to a d tier um I do like that um FES followed the exact career destructive Arc that I said he would go on where he threw away the entirety of what he was building so that he could go hang out with uh Kanye West for a little bit and then ruin the entire rest of his political future and that was just very [ __ ] funny to me and I like the fact that I got to sit back and laugh and enjoy all of that and it makes me funny when I see him and his griper fans beg me to go on and talk to him over and over again because they know the only shred of relevancy they will ever have for the remainder of their political existence if I give them any so I'll give them a d tier for making me feel good about myself David Pacman one of the few people on the left that I feel like isn't completely and totally partisan brain rot to one side uh we disagree on some things but I think he tries pretty hard and he puts out a lot of content he does a good job I'll put him up here a tier um Patrick B David well I want to go on their show so I'll put him up on the C tier for now um these guys have a lot of crazy people on I feel like they are very bought into the anti-establishment conspiracy crazy stuff uh and I feel like I hear that a lot but um we'll stick him there for now who's this guy RFK oh god um just crazy wacky conspiracy guy almost no redeeming qualities whatsoever and every time I listen to him talk I want to clear my throat like 20 times um it's crazy oh God Russell BR yeah uh Jesus yeah my God like take like Joe Rogan and just make him worse in every single way and that's Russell brand basically um less funny less just just everything less intelligent less and he has a British accent to just like Jesus how many more ways can you go wrong is this Trudeau mhm um man Canadians hate this guy and I don't like Canadians so he gets a bump for that in my book um I I'll stick him on the C tier B tier he can't go next PVD I'll put him up on the B tier because we're like you know we're both L leaning and you know he's a young guy he beat Trump at the handshake game so he gets points for that um yeah he he'll make be tier for me uh Donald Trump uh normally I'd give him normally I would give him an F tier because we disagree on almost every single thing um that could possibly be disagreed upon but D tier because he helps my career a lot because it's fun talking about making money off him but F tier because he's a treasonous [ __ ] piece of [ __ ] and I hope he rods forever in prison uh Tucker Carlson I hope he RS right alongside Trum uh treeson his people that bet betray this country and give Aid and comfort to enemies of the United States like what Tucker is doing right now is he interviews Putin and goes on the biggest easiest softball suckoff interview his entire [ __ ] life I know that's coming out [ __ ] this guy um and he lied to the American people knowingly he said he was lying he doesn't like Sydney pal he thought all of his theories were [ __ ] insane and he's literally texting talking about how he hates that she won't actually verify anything they're saying but still supported all of it on Fox News um [ __ ] him um vosch here uh where's Assan at f f okay well Vos gets one tier above Hanan because he's a little bit smarter than Hassan um but that actually that means he should know better and he shits on me and he says so many incorrect things actually you know what he's an fer F tier for lazy he doesn't hustle enough his channel should be bigger but it's not because he's lazy and he's complacent and he's making his million so he doesn't care [ __ ] that guy VC I don't think he offered anything of value he was just like a little uh basically a darker version of trump uh who was like less successful and less in every single conceivable way [ __ ] thec and xqc uh god tier political commentator uh obviously a frequent call into the destiny stream believes in all the best things antagonizes the [ __ ] out of people that I don't like like H son so you know he makes the S here as well you didn't put anyone in The Amazing tier amazing no that guy's crazy he's actually crazy now looking at this yeah do you still agree that all of those like you can see you know Steven Crowder's on the same level as TR Kirk as M Walsh as RFK as Russell Brand As Trump as Tucker Carlson as v v vou that all seems accurate when when you're now able to compare each person to the people they're beside well you're also I'm half meming on some of this but um yeah I mean like a lot of these guys are purveyors of huge like swalls of misinformation I really don't like that it's one of the things that drives me the craziest um and then the obsession over Weir like culture wars issues I also think is like cringe bro I was so bored of talking about trans [ __ ] for like all of 2023 it was so [ __ ] boring my God kill me and I feel like nulles and um Walsh especially were like obsessed with that for a long time yeah all right cool that was really fun to watch thank you thank you Destiny for coming on the show appr is there anything else you want to mention um no I don't think so thanks for having me it's been fun to chat thank you we're going to leave a link to this exact tier list down below in the description if you guys want to fill it out you'll be able to do so there post on Instagram tag Destiny oh thanks so we can see what all of these viewers think you could tag us too thanks for coming on the show destiny we really appreciate it thank you man thanks for having me until next time see you