Dave Ramsey’s Shocking Prediction For Housing Prices, Stock Market, & The Trump Economy

The US federal budget is on an unsustainable path. >> We're just spending like we're on crack. I mean, it's it's just nuts. >> We're gonna be broke really quickly unless we get serious about dealing with our spending issues. >> How can you possibly sustain this? >> How would you approach things differently? >> I would make Elon Musk look like Mother Teresa. for young people today. Where do you see the biggest opportunities for them? >> This moment in time is the best possible time to be alive in the history of human race. If you want to build wealth, so many people have become desensitized to the fact that got information of the entire world in their palm. You start a digital application of something, you can go to market with it for free. It's like having a magic wand. And if you will tap into that instead of believing these horrible philosophies that are floating around about, oh, the economy is systemically flawed and you're screwed and you know, boomers bought their houses with a basket of strawberries and they now you can't buy. If you don't quit believing all that crap and instead go, God, anything's possible. Go do something. >> Dave Ramsey, thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour. >> Oh, it's good to be back with you guys. Really appreciate you guys. got the big dogs out there, the lineup that's been on the show lately. Wow. Thank you. Congratulations. >> Super super fun to have you on and your insights into the economy and everything financial. They're always extremely fascinating. So, thanks again. >> Fascinating is a word. Yeah. >> So, we we have to know what are your predictions for the Trump economy in terms of jobs, stocks, and growth. If you were just to lay it all out, what do you predict? >> You know, I I'm anytime I predict the economy I or politics, I'm generally wrong. So, uh, I hesitate to do it. So, uh, but I I would say rather than my prediction, my hope is that what he's attempting to do works. Um, and so, uh, you know, the big beautiful bill really did do some wonderful tax things. Uh, the the middle class got huge tax breaks in 2017 and it was made permanent. So, that anytime that there's less taxes, there's more money and that helps the economy. uh people have their money in their pocket instead of sending it to the stupid government. So that's a good thing. Um obviously if you can get uh the energy sector moving uh that's a 1/8 of the or 17th of the economy depending on how you measure it. Uh and if you get uh drill baby drill happening that boom that that creates a boom. uh if you get interest rates to move slightly down and he's having a big argument now as we speak about that then you know you could cause an economic boom and uh uh get things moving and so forth. So there's a lot of reasons to be uh bullish. I honestly thought some of it would have happened before now when he came into office, but it this is hard process, I guess. And I don't again, I'm not very good at predicting it. And I've been predicting that the we're going to have a boom real estate economy for I don't know unsuccessfully predicting that for like six consecutive quarters. So, I'm about ready for it to happen actually. If you keep saying it, eventually you'll be right. Right. True. >> So, all of those seem like upsides. Are there any potential downsides that you see or any concerns with that adding on to a national >> I was a little bit caught off guard by um how all the tariff things all the tariff discussions and arguments and grenades and whatever you want to call them is >> method of negotiating is pretty much a baseball through a window. >> But the uh I was a little bit shocked about how that froze everybody. They just sat on the sidelines like a deer in the headlights and watched till let's wait to see how that happens before we do because it doesn't affect a lot of people. It doesn't affect us. We don't buy a lot of stuff overseas. Um it doesn't affect Ramsay at all. And so why would we be sidelined? We were going to go we should go do what we were going to do and we haven't been. We haven't made a decision. But I'm amazed at the number of people in business that I talk to that, you know, they're like, "Well, we're kind of waiting on this tariff thing to clear out." Why? It doesn't even But it it uh it it did more damage. Uh the waiting to see >> what's going to happen did more damage than uh than I thought it was going to do and uh slowed everything down. Sluggish. Uh because anytime you cuz you know we've talked about this before, the economy is self-fulfilling prophecy. If people believe things are going to be good, what do they do? They they they invest in new people. They bring on payroll. They give people jobs. They invest in buildings to put the comp company in. They invest in computers to run the thing on. You know, the money goes out the door when you believe, when you're hopeful. When you're scared, you pull back and you build the war chest >> and you quit hiring and you quit uh investing and you quit building up inventory and because you don't think it's going to sell. And so, you know, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in that if you believe it's going to work, you do the things that causes it to work, causes the prosperity to occur if if if enough people do it at a macro level. >> So, given the uncertainty, what would you then recommend for the average person? Should they alter their their plan of action considering the the financial environment right now? >> Nope. >> You would say tried and true. Always do exactly >> do the same principles over and over. The same principles work in up times and down times. >> But then what about the the state of the housing market too with affordability getting really low because you have rates staying up, you have home prices are staying up overall it's getting much more difficult to buy a home. A lot of people are saying maybe you should start considering renting when the American dream has always been to buy a house. What do you say to maybe a person that's debating between renting and buying a home now? >> Long-term always buying a home is a good idea. Buying a home you can't afford is not a good idea. Uh, so if the affordability issues are affecting you as a person, um, then obviously you need to sideline until you can get your situation straightened out. Here's what's interesting about that discussion is it it applies to some people and it doesn't apply to others. Um, you talked to a guy who I talked to a kid the other day who just came out of four-year degree in um, supply chain, brand new college graduate, making 140 right out the gate. Uh, he's not worried about affordability. in Nashville, Tennessee. He can he can do it. He's freaking 23 years old. I mean, come on. You know, he's not >> What did he graduate with? >> What was his major in? >> Supply chain. >> Okay. >> Supply chain. Uh logistics. So, yeah. I mean, killed it. It's a great degree field. And uh you know, he talked to another person who's uh I talked to a lady the other day who just finished up her stuff in cyber security. She's making 400k. she's not worried about, you know, so she's not having this discussion, but it's people who are stuck in their careers and they're not advancing their incomes faster than the house prices or the interest rates are advancing the the cost or affordability issues. And so then they start to read the news and they start to read the wealthy quality stuff and they're like, "Oh, well, life's unfair. I can't buy right now. There's been times in my life I couldn't buy." >> But just because they could buy, does that mean that they should? Because just from what I'm seeing, this is the first time I've ever seen a housing market where to me even it makes more sense to rent. And I'm looking at properties, and I've been looking at properties daily for years throughout LA, California, Vegas, and I'm looking at the rent toale ratio. And throughout most of these areas, you could rent for half the price it would cost you to buy it. And when I'm looking at the interest rates and the property taxes and the insurance, I would rather just rent. It might be the case for a year or it might be a case for two years. I don't know. Um I you know again I got my real estate license in 1978. We've had that discussion before. So I've watched this a long long time. And um the the thing I know is if I'm talking to a 40-year-old and they never buy a house, the 80-year-old version of them is going to be really pissed because their cost of housing over that 40 years, 100% chance it's going up. 100%. >> What if What if they're diligently investing? Because you've seen these statistics before where if you had put your down payment in the S&P at the same time as buying a house, the S&P investment would have outpaced it by double. And that was from the 80s through today. >> Except that the largest line item in your personal income budget for the typical American is housing. >> Mhm. >> And when you buy a home and then you pay it off, that's no longer your largest line item in your personal budget and you can do investing. And so you flip the cash flow towards investing at that point. And the data from the largest millionaire study ever done that we did 10,167 of them shows that the typical 1 to5 million, the first 1 to 5 million of net worth that they get is um in the 401k and investing in Roth IAS and good mutual funds in the market and getting a home and getting it paid off. So, they're sitting there million7 net worth and they've got a $800,000 401k and they got a paid for $900,000 house and they're 47 years old and they're millionaires and that's that's their first 1.7 million. Now, you don't get to 100 million doing that. Uh that's a different world, but it's we're not talking about billionaires. We're talking about millionaires and and sustainability. So, um I I don't talk to happy 78-year-olds and 83 year olds on our show uh that are renters. So, it's not a long-term play. But on the short term, is there is there times the market is dipsy doodle and it's got you got this hydroline, so to speak, where it's flipped and the cold water's on top, the hot water's on the botto, you know? Yeah, that could happen. Uh just like when I'm diving, same thing can happen. It's a weird experience, but but it's not the norm. eventually the the warm water is going to be on top, the cold water is going to be on bottom. >> It's interesting because your perspective is like financially maximizing. It's kind of like what people should be doing. >> And then your perspective is kind of like what people are doing because you have the whole idea of like, well, right now it makes more sense to rent because maybe you could be mobile with your job with rates and affordability as low as it is. It gives you the freedom. >> But that's not a 40-year play. >> That's true. I mean, it depends. >> That's a 40month play. If you're reassessing all of the time and you're financially maximizing, that makes sense. Same thing goes for credit cards because you could still get the money back if you don't adjust spending habits and stuff like that and that's and that's what people like if you are financially maximizing and you're super in tune with it. >> He was doing really good for a minute, wasn't he? >> Whereas let me just let me just you know specify you actually report on what people are doing. The fact of the matter is like you yes you do have this contingencies but my point is not that my point is it's it's a you don't want to compare a 5-year plan with a 40-year plan. >> They'll lead you to different conclusions and to say I'm going to rent for 40 years would be ludicrous based on historical data. Um yeah are there moments in time where a four or a fiveyear plan that what Grant you know what Graham's saying I don't doubt what you're saying a bit. I think that's probably accurate numbers. Uh but it's not a 40-year plan. >> And so right now, if you're in a moment where you need the flexibility and you're in and out and you know, you're in you're sitting in LA with your as your example was uh and you can rent for half of what you can buy. If that's the case, I haven't looked at the numbers, but I don't doubt I don't doubt your numbers. Um so I mean, if that's the case, then yeah, for now, but don't, you know, don't make that your long-term game plan. >> I would agree with that. Uh really it was up until 2021 was I I was huge proponent of buying a house. 2022 I saw things starting to flip where I noticed rents just getting way too cheap for what they were. >> So now I'm in a very much like I I wouldn't buy something right now. I would rent. But prior to 2020, I was all about buying. I thought there were great opportunities out there. >> You know, I just realized it's hilarious. In 2020, I was buying my first house and he was like, "No, Jack, don't do But he's telling everyone, "Oh, it's a great time to buy." And it was a good time. And now I'm buying a house cuz he's like, "Jack, you should get this house." And he's telling everyone, "No, it's not the right time to buy." That is like Jack is the exception. It in 2020, Jack's income was skyrocketing. >> In 2020, his income was going up. And I'm like, "If you wait like a few years, what you would be able to purchase would be so much different from that." >> That was the reason why >> he was going from zero, but like going from zero to one like very quickly. So, if I'm financially obliterating myself and buying a short-term rental right now, what is your personal investing strategy for 2025? How are you allocating your money? What's your what's your goal? >> I just put an LOI on a piece of commercial real estate. Oh, no. We just went to contract on it. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Then we know that we're going to it's going through zoning and if it if we get through due diligence on it, we'll start developing. >> What's the goal in mind with this real estate? >> Uh 40 years. Yeah. It won't be for me. I'm not doing it for me. I'm doing it for my grandkids. So, my son-in-law runs all our real estate. take Rachel's husband and um he and I are having a blast and uh he he'll he'll run it and um someday it's a wonderful piece of property and it'll take it's a large deal and it'll take u it'll take a couple a decade plus to build it all the way out. >> Oh, really? Yeah. Se several pieces of >> you know like it's from retail on the front, some office in the back, that kind of stuff. >> What's your hotel on it? That kind of >> What's your secret to getting a good deal >> on that deal? Um that particular one I don't know that I really got a great deal. I usually buy stuff at um you know south south of 70% of ret appraisal. In that one I'm I am doing something I don't usually recommend. I'll just be authentic. Um on that one I I'm I got a good price on it. It'll appraise for more than I've got it tied up for. I think um but really what I'm really betting on it's right on the edge of the growth ring. And so I'm just betting on it's a great long-term play. So, it's a value purchase rather than a uh a price purchase >> kind of thing. And in that particular case, if we were buying a uh you know, something that's cash, you know, cash flow apartment right now or something like that, I I'm just looking at I'm looking at ROIs and >> uh looking net operating income. I'm going to look at the cap rates and just saying, okay, you know, what what's my cash on cash cuz I pay cash and so, you know, what am I what am I going to get out of this now and how much how poorly is it managed and can I get the occupancy rates up and so forth? >> How did the numbers shake out on this? And I'm also curious, obviously you you don't need to be doing any of this, but I'm curious, are you just like scouring loop net still? like you're like you're like looking at deals trying to find something calling the person like hey you know any officers on this I mean Winston he does all you have people they came in and said hey here's four or five things we got to look at and I went you know I went down drove the truck up on it sat up on a piece of ground and go >> yeah traffic counts here this feels good and yeah and I know exactly I mean this I grew up in this area so I've watched this progress for 50 60 years you know so I got a good feel for it that way uh feasib ability studies in my gut, you know, and so, you know, and then we go and we do all the other stuff, too. So, we'll do all the stuff during due diligence, but uh no, I'm not scouring it. But I do I I just love messing with real estate. I I grew up in the business and I it's the uh the thrill of the chase and the building stuff is fun and I just and and the numbers are great, you know, it's a great return on investment. >> What sort of return do you look for? uh most of our commercial stuff um you know when it's built out and everything would be uh it's going to have an IRRa up in the 20s. Uh but uh a uh cash on cash would probably be >> 12 14 most of the time. >> That's fantastic. That's phenomenal. >> But um but the IRRs I mean including your depreciation schedules, your appreciation and all that stuff that's the IRRa, right? Internal rate of return. And so um you know we look we want that to be up in the 20s or 30s easy but um but there's a hassle factor involved in all that stuff that you don't have you know mutual if I want to throw something in an index fund I can make you know 11 12 the last two years 23 24 but uh and not do anything hardly just it just you know open the computer screen and look at it but this stuff you actually have to work on so I always laugh when people say real estate's passive that's just stupid to me there's nothing passive about Yeah, it's very active. >> Although before we go into that, when it comes to business, they say that you could get better, cheaper, or faster, but you could only pick two. >> Well, what if you could have all three at the same time? And that is exactly what Coher, Thompson Reuters, and Specialized Bikes have since they've upgraded to the next generation of the cloud, Oracle Cloud Infrastructure. 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I'm curious, are you seeing a lot of opportunity in commercial real estate right now? We have a friend Ben Ma. I don't know if you've ever Yeah. Okay. Well, he does a lot of commercial real estate over in Florida. He says that he sees a lot of opportunity because, you know, the the loans on commercial is a lot they're a lot shorter and a lot of them are going to be coming due and then they're going to have to refinance at a higher rate. It's going to then open up the supply. A lot of people are going to have to sell and you could be really aggressive right now with with lowballing offers on commercial real estate as opposed to uh residential real estate where there's going to be a little less opportunity. >> Yeah, residential is the only place you compete with the end use consumer. Um, when you're in commercial, you're competing with other B2B. So, it's uh your your other player is an investor. >> So, everybody's looking for a deal, you know, but nobody's looking to pay an emotional white picket fence for my Yorkie in the backyard price, right? Um, you don't have that with an apartment complex. It's just crunch the numbers. The numbers is the numbers and per units, you know, what are these things selling for per unit and uh what's that moving for? or what's the what's office space doing right now given that some people are working at home and how much of it's empty and what's the future of that and so on. So you just kind of got to play those things through but you're not you don't really have the same competition. This is why I tell people you know the beginning investor they say I want to buy a duplex and live in one side and rent out the other. Two problems with that. One is your tenants next door and two is um when you get ready to sell it the buyer is probably not an emotional buyer. a retail buyer, it's probably another investor and uh which means wholesale by definition. And so it doesn't, you know, you're probably not going to see the same appreciation rates on something that the investor that the investor market is your pool for resale. >> Yeah, I would agree with that. I So I did that. I got a duplex and I got just step in. >> I was very I was very lucky that that was the first place that I was really like trying to house hack and and get by. And so I basically got this place for no money whatsoever. I went in, I fixed it up, I then refinanced it. I pulled all my cash out, so I had zero dollars of my own money in this. And with the rent from the other unit and paying down the mortgage, it was a free place for me to live in the middle of Los Angeles. But I also got very lucky. I love the tenants next door. They were awesome. So, for me, that worked out really well. But I do agree with you on the appreciation aspect of that. Uh looking back from a price standpoint, I would have made more appreciation buying a single family home, but in that case, it worked out really well from getting the rents. >> Mhm. >> So, they almost balanced each other out, but from appreciation, it would have been easier to uh sell a single family home. >> Well, and you caught a wave in LA, which that wave's not cresting right now. >> Yeah, correct. >> So, >> I wouldn't be able to do >> if you did that today, you could get your exact deal today, it might break you. Yes, I would agree with that. Speaking of debt, the national debt is on pace to hit 50 trillion over the next 10 years is what they're estimating. Do you see there being a huge issue with money printing and taking on debt within the economy? >> I'm the guy that hates debt more than anybody you've ever met. You know, I mean, and I'm baffled by the national debt. Um because I mean, when I first started in my 30s, there was books out that the world was coming to an end, right? bankruptcy. Was it bankruptcy 1994 or something? A guy predicting the hockey stick in the debt was going to dry up the money supply and it was going to crash. He was going to, you know, squeeze the life out of the economy, choke it down, and you know that the interest rates that the interest that the US is paying out of their budget line items as it is far exceeding most other things in the budget and it was going to the thing was going to flip over mathematically and it's going to we're all going to die. Another one was coming economic earthquake. And another guy uh one of my buddies that uh buys and sells and uh I think the world of him he and I are complete opposites but I still love the guy is Robert Kiyosaki. Oh yeah. >> And Kiasaki did a book about the ending the coming end of the world whatever the coming economic collapse or whatever he called it. I forget. And so uh and it didn't happen. >> It's kind of like me predicting the coming economic prosperity for the last six quarters but didn't happen you know. So, uh, I I everybody and and the other thing I've noticed, there's a lot of people writing books on the end of the world do this stuff. And, uh, I, as I've gotten old, I've noticed that old white men really have this desire for the world to come to an end. I don't know what the problem is, but they they keep bringing me these they keep sending me these these these manuscripts that are half-typed out. Looks like something from a movie, right? And you need to you need to tell the world about this, Dave. And it's the the coming economic earthquake. the world's going to end, you know, and and you know, I I hate debt and I don't like that we're doing this, but a long time ago, it was supposed to have collapsed everything and it hasn't, which I don't understand. It baffles me. So, one of my good friends is a guy named Art Laugher. Art moved to Tennessee from California many years ago and um he's the father of supply side economics. He was he started regonomics. He and he was on Ronald Reagan's cabinet and he's brilliant. He's got a PhD in economics from Cambridge. Okay. He's old money guy. Uh he's in his 80s and he's just a wonderful guy. And uh he and I got in a big argument riding together on a plane about this. I'm like, "All right, come on. Explain to me." And he tried to explain it to me why it's okay because it doesn't bother him a bit. >> And he's Mr. Economics, right? Um and I'm like, and I couldn't understand why he doesn't I I still don't understand why it's not there. But but I quit worrying about it as the summary of the story. I really don't understand why it has not done more damage already. I mean, you talk about 50 trillion. I mean, I remember when we're talking about 10 trillion trillion, my god. I mean, how in the world, you know, and you know, we're just spending like we're like we're on crack. I mean, it's it's just nuts. How can you possibly sustain this? And yet for three decades I've watched us do it and it has seemingly had almost no effect. >> So could you argue though that the effect is a devaluation in the dollar, some inflation and asset prices have increased? >> No. Because during the time we've done this, we've had inflation of 2%. Some years we've had inflation of 3%. I mean the CPI for 70 years has averaged 4.3. That's consumer price index, the measure of inflation. I mean, we had 9.7 under Biden and we had some supply chain screw up and weird inflation, you know, postcoid inflation and that kind of stuff that was kind of an anomaly. But overall, if you chart inflation with the debt, it hasn't followed it. It's not been that. I mean, the worst inflation we had was in the 70s and there was hardly any debt then. You go back under Carter era and look at that stuff and gas prices and gas lines and we had doubledigit inflation year in and year out in the 1970s and it was not tracking with the debt. It was not it was not it didn't it didn't you know and cuz if you did that you would think there was if it was causation instead of correlation you you'd be able to track them both on a on a graph and see them following each other right and they don't which I'm I truly don't understand. Art tried to explain it to me and I'm just not smart enough to get it. So, if you were in charge of the government, how would you approach things differently? >> Well, nobody would let me be in trouble because I would cut all of their lives out. Um, all of this God, man, the nanny stuff. I mean, I would make Elon Musk look like Mother Teresa, you know? I mean, we would dozege that thing down to I mean, I I could balance the budget, but no one would let you because of all the cuz everyone's grandmother would be in the street starving and whatever to hear them tell it, which is bull crap. But, um, you know, all these little pet projects. We'd have no streets. We'd have no army. We'd have no whatever according to the the people who go bananas as soon as you start cutting one little thing. I mean, look at how they reacted to cutting just ridiculous stuff under Elon. He brings up these things that you look he puts them out there and any sane human right or left is looking at this going this is moronic and they cut it and then what do they do? They protest in the streets because we cut moronic stuff. So I don't know how you would do it politically or without causing societal upheaval of some kind. But mathematically you could do it. I mean but but none of this happens in a vacuum. Roughly a quarter of the entire budget of the government goes towards social security. What are your thoughts on overall retirement income, social security? Should we push out the retirement age? Is this something that we should be dealing with or just say, okay, we need to take care of the people that have worked their entire life and maybe not been financially prudent and then give them social security. >> Well, social security was never intended mathematically nor philosophically or nor politically to be your retirement plan. couldn't have worked like shaken out mathematically if they just kept individual accounts for each person for the most part. >> Honey, if we had individual accounts and put it in 2%. I mean, it it's has a negative rate of return. Social Security is a negative rate of return. So, if we put it if we just put it in there and didn't spend it and gave it back out, you'd have more. If you just broke even, but if you put it in an account and got 2%. God, if you put it in an account and got 7%. you'd have like bazillions of dollars more. Bush tried to talk about privatizing a portion of it. What happened? W and and he got just destroyed politically cuz you're trying to my grandmother is not going to be able to eat because these evil Republicans and all this garbage came out. So, but I mean the math on social security it is the worst possible investment. I I I you know when Bush was doing that I was on the show and I would come out and here's the math guys. At that time I was like 40 something years old. I said, ' Okay, I paid in for 25 years. If you just won't make me pay in anymore, you can keep all I've given you. I won't I'll opt out completely opt out. I'll not take and I will kick your butt with the remaining 20 years of my earning power. I I will I will have I'll be just fine with the money I would have paid into social security putting it into a CD. I would have had 10 or 20x what they're going to pay me now at 65 years old. >> Why can't you opt out? >> It's just another tax. It's not like >> the thing is the the reason why >> because the smart people would >> and that would only leave the dumb people. >> The reason why is because current workers pay for the people who are currently on social security. Yeah. >> So all of our money goes to them. Future generations fund has been robbed long ago. There's no trust fund. It's a cash flow mechanism now. >> But yeah, you're exactly right. I mean, and so like pastors, uh, preachers can opt out on the grounds of I object to the system on a religious basis. Uh, which as a Christian I could easily do because it's a horrible use of God's money. So I object to it on a religious basis. But I'm not a preacher, so I can't do it. But uh when preachers ask me, "Should I opt out?" I'm like, "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah." >> So you're saying everyone should become a preacher >> apparently. >> That's a great side hustle video right there. Life hacks. >> The sad thing is only your pastoral income you can opt out on. So if you have a side hustle, >> there's probably a way you >> Anything else you get is still subject to the system income. You know, what do they what do we got to replace? You got to have a retirement plan. Duh. Mhm. You got to have uh long-term disability because if you become disabled as an adult, you get SSI, which is a function of social security. And if you die, your kids are taken care of with social security. And so, you need life insurance. But duh, you need all three of those things anyway if you're a responsible adult. That's part of financial planning. You need a retirement plan. You need long-term disability. And you need life insurance to take care of your family if something happens to you. That's basic financial planning. You need to be doing that anyway, pastor. So just do what you're supposed to do anyway and opt out and use the money you would have been given those doofuses to fund your personal life and you'll come out way better off. >> So what is your balance then between having a social safety net and taking personal responsibility? I spoke in in a a church the other day and I was showing them the numbers that if we spend in in America, if we took uh 20% of our Halloween budget and 20% of our pet budget, we the people could take care of we the people. Easy. There'd be no hungry kids. You could fund every every harvest food bank, every hungry kid in America. There would be no hunger except for systemic problems. But I mean, mathematically, there'd be the money to feed every hungry kid in America. 20% of your Halloween budget, 20% of your pet budget. >> How much are people spending on Halloween and pets? >> Oh, it's billions and billions and billions every year. I didn't even touch Christmas. I'm not the Grinch. Okay. So I mean but our our consumption versus our generosity we the people and people are not as generous because they think it's the government's job and it's not. It's your job. If we would take care of each other we can put the government out of business. We can make them irrelevant and then suddenly all these discussions start to have a different flavor. So one of my massive goals is just to increase outrageous generosity by typical individuals to a to a point that it actually makes a macro impact. >> What would you say are the best real world applications of generosity for average people? >> You just look for something that is loving people well that are struggling and how can I fund hungry children? How can I fund something to keep uh you know this huge problem with sex trafficking? Um take something like St. Jude's Hospital. um you know it it's only like a couple billion to to run one of those things and that's nothing out of our consumption budgets. Nothing. You could build 37 of those things in one year if you just dial back a little bit of consumption said okay we're all going in the charitable hospital business all of us together and it you don't it's not required but it's inspired and that's the difference in taxation and generosity. I suppose this is a very like weird niche dilemma to bring up, but every single time that I've like given to a charitable organization, I have gotten probably two to three letters in the mail every single month for years because of that, which is obviously like not anything, you know, horrible, but we also I mean we also we did St. Jude's. >> Yeah, we did St. >> We did St. dudes this year, but every time that so far and and you don't know where the money's going, which I guess is also up to the charity like they could also >> No, you to ask. You could just say, "Okay, are your books open?" >> And their their books are open, by the way. You could if you want to know where the money is going, just ask them. They got it. You can jump on their site and look at it. >> I like doing things where I could see the impact or see the person tipping tipping. But I'll give you a good example. This is this is like the most memorable for me is I was eating sushi and it was maybe 9:30 at night and I see a mom come in with her four-year-old and she's doing Door Dash and I'm thinking she's a hard worker at 9:30 at night picking up sushi with her kid. She can't get a babysitter. So, I gave her 100 bucks and like that I felt great about cuz she's out there working and like $100 for her I'm sure would go a long way. That made me feel good to see the impact that has on a person and to see the reaction when you do something like that. >> Yeah. And and uh all the studies tell us that when you can see the impact, the generosity increases. And so, you know, how do we do that at a million dollar level instead of $100 level and see the impact and you can do it. I mean, you you don't have to give to some monolith and not know throw the money into some black thing and never know where it went out there. But um and you know for that matter people it's not unusual for wealthy people to just start something and say I'm going to do this. I'm going to go I'm going to go put a stop to at least some sex trafficking. I'm going to go out here and I'm going to make sure that these kids get fed and that means um we're going to set up a food bank here and I'm going to make sure it's funded and I'm going to watch the people come in and get the food and and you do it with a million dollars instead of a hundred. But yeah, I agree with you. The tipping is um tipping activates that part of your DNA that we're talking about right now. But if we did that at a macro level, you do away with social security because um because Dave Ramsey doesn't need social security. I don't have to have it. I'm I'm fine. Whatever 1,500 bucks a month or something, right? I don't need it. >> Are you collecting social security? >> I will. I'm 64. I'm getting ready to be 65. >> So you've delayed it to try to get the maximum amount. >> Yeah. At a certain age, you just have to take it. It's not >> I mean >> I don't >> What are you going to do with it? >> I don't I don't even know it's there. I'll just It'll just go into the account and we'll just keep going. But um but that you know the point is is that it >> you said the folks that are struggling, how do we take care of them? How do we have a safety net? I don't need a safety net cuz I've been I've done my job right and for people that have done their job, they don't need a safety net. So um but um but also it's not fair to take the money away from me because I have paid in for 50 freaking years and so um that wouldn't be equitable. It wouldn't be correct. But socially we could do it with a non-governmental process and people are cared for and loved and um think about the most of the universities were started as Christian institutions. Most of the hospitals in America were started not by the medical industry but by the healing arts. And these were people doing this as an act of love, as an act of generosity with wealth that they had built. And it was the private sector taking care of the private sector. There's a lot going on that's very good in that area, but man, we you could make the government irre irrelevant mathematically and it would be an awesome day. So, we spoke about the underserved, the people that are struggling, that need help. What do you do with just the lazy people that don't want to work? They want to sit back, relax, spend time on their phone. >> What we got to stop and think about is what's good for that person. >> Although, really quick, if you're looking to cut back on expenses without really changing your lifestyle, looking at your phone bill is one of the best places to start. Most people are still paying 60, 80, or even $100 or more for something they barely even think about. That's why we're excited to be partnering with today's sponsor, Helium Mobile, because they're doing phone service completely different. I kid you not, Helium has a plan that is literally $0 per month. It gives you 3 GB of data, 100 minutes of calls, and 300 texts, no contract, no credit card. And yes, it actually works. It's absolutely perfect if you're just a light user or you want a cheap second phone line. And with the Zero plan, you'll also earn cloud points. 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Thank you so much to Helium Mobilebile for sponsoring this episode. >> What we got to stop and think about is what's good for that person. Okay. What's good for that person is to discover the incredible dignity that having an empowered s having an empowered life where I go leave the cave, kill something, and drag it home. The thrill of the hunt, the thrill of the the metaphorical kill, the um they they have a listless um the chemicals in their body are not doing what they're supposed to be doing because they're not active. They're not engaged. So, what they're doing is not good for them. It feels good to eat too much chocolate cake when you're eating it, but it doesn't end up well for you. And so, what's really good for that person? How can we love that person well? And is the way I look at that. And and so, what would if that was my son or my daughter, what would I do as if I'm a loving father, not a harsh father, not a mean father, but someone who really wants what's best for them? what's best for them is that they engage something that they get the dignity of hard work of getting a mental or a physical callous. um that they actually get the the feeling that we have all had by accomplishing some things, you know, and you don't get that sitting on your couch, um playing Call of Duty, you know, um and so uh the highest depression rate ever, highest rate ever, the the uh deaths of despair, we call them in the statistical analysis is the highest ever in the group we're talking about because it's it's really a horrible life. And so whatever we've got to do to get them to engage and build a work ethic muscle for their own good is the best thing we can do for them. And sometimes that is what you know where you let someone suffer the natural consequences of their stupidity or their bad actions. I've done some stupid things in my life and the natural consequences took me out, you know, knocked me to my knees. Um, and it end up being you, okay, next time you learn to duck, next time you learn to not do that thing, don't touch that hot stove, it hurts. Don't sit on your couch and have no money and be hungry. Oh, being hungry would be a good thing. That would cause you to get off your couch, you know. And so, a little desperation is really good for the soul. It's a great motivator. Now, again, I'm not trying to be harmful. It's an act of love. And people say, "Well, that's tough love." No, it's just real love. Real love is not leaving them alone in their mess. That doesn't help. They're not being helped. If you really love your kid, you know, you make them brush their teeth so they have some. >> One thing that I found fascinating is that Bill Gates always argues that he should be paying more in tax. What do you think Bill Gates means by that? Why do you think he's saying that? Bill Gates is paying more in tax than anybody, >> but he says like the tax rate, the percentage should be. >> Didn't he say that on Oprah? He went on Oprah or some sort of talk show and he was like, I need I should be paying more in tax. >> I have no idea what Bill Gates means, but um I do know that 48% last year of Americans paid zero federal income tax. >> 48%. >> Yeah. >> Zero. >> Yep. Zero. top 10% pay something like I think it's like 90 something% of tax. >> Yeah, >> it's a very high amount. >> So Gates actually does not know if he said that he doesn't understand statistics because the truth is the evil 10% the top 10% are paying the vast majority of the federal income taxes. It's already there. Um, I mean, and and Trump even took it further because he he drastically increased and now it's indexed for inflation, the standard deduction. And so you've got now you're going to have about this year probably going to have about 92% of the people that file an easy return that don't file an itemized return. So they're taking no charitable deductions. They're taking no interest deductions. They're taking no deductions because they take the standard deduction. But you can make I I think it's like uh I forget what it's gone to. It's got like 30 or $35,000 in standard deductions and and have zero tax >> and and so again they're not doing anything wrong by paying zero taxes. It's just they're not they don't have any due under the current system. So to say that rich people need to pay their fair share is the most mathematically asinine statement that you could possibly make. What a lot of people do is they look at capital gains and they say, "Well, Elon Musk's wealth went from 100 billion to 200 billion and he pays only that amount of tax." But they take into account the value of his company. >> Mhm. >> Without him actually realizing those gains. But then anytime his company is worth less, they never say he should get a tax refund. They never mention that. >> You can't write off those losses, >> right? >> Because they're not realized. >> Exactly. >> That they're realized, but they're not recognized in terms of tax code. But yeah, so um and again that that's people just trying to make a case for why they haven't succeeded. If you quit analyzing Elon Musk's personal finances and analyze your own, probably be a good use of your calories. >> Would you say there are any valid reasons for financial failure in America in 2025? >> Yeah. Yeah. Um tragedy comes to someone. Um, I've got two friends right now dying of cancer and um they're not going to make it. And if they had absolutely zero money and left behind a wife and kids or a husband and kids um yeah, you could have failure. The uh twist on the answer would be um is there any reason for permanent financial failure? No, there's not. Unless someone is just completely uh debilitated or um h has a an extreme disability where they're unable to function. But if you're able to function in the marketplace, you can have a tragedy and it's a temporary thing and during that time they can't do anything. It's it's very sad and very real. But um but you know, is is that a permanent No, that's a snapshot. And life's a film strip. And so how many times do we hear of the I mean I talked to a lady the other day who went to jail for robbing a bank and she was in jail for 10 years and she lost her kids to you know to her you know family services took them away. She lost everything her reputation her confidence her looks everything. um she comes out of jail. Now, can she start from below ground zero subterranean >> and still at 32 years old or 34 years old still go make a life? Absolutely she can. But her biggest problem is like a buddy of mine who grew up in the in a really low income area. He said, you know, getting out of the hood is not as hard as getting the hood out of your head. So, her biggest problem is overcoming her mindset and believing and and having hope again and and seeing a system that she could use from you guys or me that she could use to actually go and okay, I can go get this job and then I can do that and then I can take this class and I can do this and I have a career path and then I can start saving and investing and you know mathematically can someone starting from nothing and no reputation that's a convicted felon become prosperous over 30 years in America? Absolutely. But they got to believe they can and they got to see the system and have access and that. But if you don't, you know, if you can't get out of your own head, then no, you ain't got a chance. How do you help people get out of their own head and believe in the system? >> You got to show them a system that they believe. It's called hope. Bible says hope deferred. In other words, hopelessness makes the heart sick. It's a sickness of heart. And but when desire comes, it is the tree of life. and you guys have heard it and seen it on our show and on yours. Someone calls here and they say, "Well, this is my situation. This is this this this and I think I'm bankrupt." I'm like, "Uh, no, you're not bankrupt. If you sold that and you did that and you move that over there and you quit trying to hold on to that, uh, you're not only not bankrupt, you're going to actually come out with a positive net worth." And then you go from there and here and they go, you can hear the light bulbs going off on their head, right? and because it changes their perspective because they were in the middle of the forest and couldn't see the trees. So, it wasn't math, it wasn't the systemic problems with the economy that were keeping them down. It wasn't uh wealth inequality that was keeping them down. It wasn't all that bull crap. It was they couldn't see their way cuz they were so deep in the forest. And all we did is take a chainsaw to the sucker, you know, and go, "Okay, guys, here's what you do. You do this, this, this." Because we're on the outside. We're not emotionally in their head space. I don't have their depression. >> I don't have their blues. I don't have their dysfunctional daddy in their my head, you know, or whatever the crap is going on, right? But if I go, "Okay, if you do this," and they go, "Yeah, that would work." And you start to hear them and you they're the ones that are going to do it. You can hear the ones that aren't going to do it, too, right? But they go, "Oh, yeah. I had thought of that." And you mean, "Yeah, I'd have to get rid of that, but and I hate that. I I wouldn't want to sell that, but I I would to get free, you know, to be free and to be able to start again." And and and that energy, you feel the energy coming right back up. But that's head space. That's not math problems and it's not systemic problems with the economy and it's not house prices versus affordability indexes or any of that crap. It's belief. >> How do you feel when you could tell someone's not going to follow your advice? Like they just took up the time on the air that we could have used for somebody who was going to. And so I end up going, you're on hold and you're gone. I I I will argue with you about three times and about the third time you come back at me and like I'm wasting my time. You called me up to get me to endorse your stupidity and that's the wrong idea. I'm here to help you get a PL path, see a plan, see a way of going and if you can't see that then I'll move on to somebody else. It's like, you know, like lady had, you know, not long ago had escalated and she owed like 85 5,000 bucks on this stupid Escalade, you know, and um and she's like, I can't do this and do this, this, this. I'm like, "Lady, you're broke. You need to sell the Escalade." Well, that's a non-starter. I'm not doing that. And that was the fourth time I'd gone at that thing. And I just went, "Move on. I can't help her." She didn't really want to be helped. She wants a magic wand. And we don't have fairy dust here. We have calculators. >> On the topic of shifting mentality, you said you were 63. >> Mhm. Four. >> 64. Okay. My dad's 63 and I was out to dinner with him recently and he said it's only a symptom of the past 5 or so years. He's been wrestling a little bit more with mortality. It's making him reflect on his life thinking what he would have done differently. And I think that it's really altering his perspective. He's never mentioned this to me before, but he said it's only like a product of around this age. I'm curious if this is something that that you started thinking about recently and if so, what does it look like when you're wrestling with mortality? For us, it's not been like regret. I'm not looking back going, "Oh, I screwed that up." Because I did screw up a lot of stuff in my life, but I'm not I don't want to go back and do it again. It was It's been a good ride. I'm fine. Um, but the going forward is you start counting your days. You go and so my wife and I have adopted a saying. Um, someone calls us up and wants to do something, we we go, "Why wouldn't I?" We we don't say no to a lot. We just go do it. You know, whatever. You know, why wouldn't I? We're going on a cruise. All right, let's go. We're flying to Croatia. All right, I'm I'm in. Let's go. And so, um, whatever. Or, you know, uh, you know, she was she we we've been learning to play golf together for the last 5 years. And so, we're finally getting tolerable at the stupid sport. And >> what's your best round? >> Um, 78. >> 78. >> You're hiring coaches, huh? >> Oh, all the time. Yeah. Lots of coaches. Yeah. >> To get rid of you destroy play golf with this body, you have to have coaching. That's fantastic. That's not average. You said my best ever. >> Well, that's still phenomenal. >> My best ever is 100. >> Okay. All right. Well, anyway, that So, we're learning to play. So, anyway, she's playing with these clubs and two or three of her friends are playing with these clubs and they're like, you know, I you know, whatever. And I said, well, let's get you get the guy over here and have a professional fit you in a set of clubs and get you some real much better golf clubs. You can get rid of these Walmart things. And she's like, why wouldn't I? You know, it doesn't matter what it costs. It's an irrelevant amount of money in our world today. I'm not bragging, but I mean what else am I going to spend it on with this many years left to your point to your question and so you know I'm 65 so 85 95 I mean you know and what part of that is is debilitating health. I'm not able to do stuff. So um hey we're going to Scotland play golf for 13 days. Y'all want to go? Why wouldn't I? >> At what point in your life do you think it's healthy to adopt that why wouldn't I framework? when you can afford it. The uh the problem is when you're 26 and you're broke and you go, "Why wouldn't I?" It's like, "Yeah, and you're financing out your ears and then Yeah, that's why you wouldn't. I can tell you why you wouldn't." But uh in this case, we we have the money. It's an irrelevant amount of money compared to the overall situation as a percentage of net worth or percentage of income. Um, and whatever the thing is, if it's a luxury item or a generosity item, we're looking over, we could give that to that situation. And why wouldn't I? >> What percentage do you look at where you just say to yourself, it doesn't matter? Is it 1% 5%? >> I just we ask ourselves a question. If we take that much money and burn it in the middle of the floor, will our life changed? And so, if it changes our life, then that's a high percentage of your net worth or too high a percentage of your net worth. You know, I'm not talking about gives you indigestion. I'm not talking about makes you sad. That would if you burn money in the middle of the floor, either one of those would occur, right? But but the point is that what happens is when you strain and struggle and fight and scratch and claw through this thing of building a business and building wealth, um, sometimes you never learn to let go and be generous to others and to yourself to enjoy some of it. But it's not it's not 80%. I'm not I'm not putting 80% of my money on something. I'm leaving an inheritance to my children's children. I want to that's a biblical thing for me. I want to do that. And so, you know, I want to change my family tree and I have um assuming I don't do something extremely stupid in the next 20 years, which is but going on a cruise is not going to do that. Or, you know, c catching a plane to Scotland is not going to do that or giving a million dollars to something's not going to do that. I mean this these buildings are worth 650 million so I'm probably okay you know you know so that kind of thing. So I'm not bragging I'm just saying you ask it's a ratio thing for me. Uh does it does it have I got too much tied up in stupid you know in consumption or in generosity to the point that I'm harming the nest egg that I'm harming the mothership. And uh that's what I'm always asking myself cuz I think I as a Christian I want to be responsible before God for managing his money. And he says, "Take care of your own household first or you're worse than an unbeliever son. Take care of my wife. She put up with this stuff for 43 years." I mean, she deserves some golf clubs. Hello. I mean, you know, so you know, that kind of thing. So that that's there. And then I want to leave an a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children. I want to do that. God loves a cheerful giver. So I want to be outrageously generous. So those are the three guiding scriptures that keep me in line and and managing his money uh in a way that I get to have an incredible life and I get to be a blessing to others too. >> For young people today, where do you see the biggest opportunities for them? >> I think I truly believe this and I I think I've got good basis for the belief that today in the United States of America at this moment with all the political hoop This moment in time in our economy as it is structured at this moment and the way things move at this moment is the best possible time to be alive in the history of the human race. If you want to build wealth, if you want to if you want to become somebody, if you want to go do something, I've got so many Gen Z's on this team. And the thing I have learned uh uh about the Gen Z's and millennials I is that they've grown up with this thing in their hand that answers any question that they want answered instantaneously. They've got information of the entire world in their palm. They can push a button and stuff shows up on your front porch in a few hours. It's the weirdest thing. It's like having a magic wand. And what that has done for those of you that have this native that you've had this your entire, you know, adult lives or semi adult lives, you've had this at your access. You can stop. you can get an app to do anything is you have a builtin if you let it function a builtin abundance mentality because this thing says anything's possible because anything's possible. That's an abundance mentality. And if you will tap into that instead of believing these horrible philosophies that are floating around about, oh, the economy is systemically flawed and you're screwed and you know, boomers bought their houses with a basket of strawberries and then now you can't buy. If you don't quit believing all that crap and instead go, god, >> anything's possible. Go do something. It was a lot harder to be Bill Gates or or Michael Dell in their garage than it would be today. I mean, you think you start a digital application of something, you can go to market with it for free. Doesn't cost anything. You don't even have to know how to write code now. AI will do it. I mean, an idiot like me can write code now. I've never written a line of code in my life, but I can open up chatgbt and o and have a website in a few hours that's really nice and and and and if I don't know how to run a store, I'll put Shopify on there until I learn how to run a store and it cost me nothing. And all of a sudden, my ideas are in the marketplace and the marketplace can talk back to me and say, "Your idea sucks. So, adjust it, iterate it, and you can iterate it quickly and easily because it's not an analog product. It's a digital product." It's the best time ever to make money. I mean, you can go make money. Just like I've never seen anything like this. Back, you know, we actually had to have brick andmortar analog. I had VHS tapes for God's sakes I was selling. You know, I carry books around the trunk of my car. There was no internet. And God, man, if you could just touch a button and it goes automatically to a warehouse that I don't own and they fulfill it for me and I make us and my book goes out there and and oh, by the way, I wrote that book in about a fourth the time. And if you actually want to go crazy, AI will probably do your audio version and it'll sound just like you. The last book I did, we almost used AI to do the audio book because it sounded it was it was about 94% perfect. >> Wow. And the we decided the edit to clean up the other 6% was too much. It was easier for me to sit down do the 16 hours to record it. But dude, that's probably the last one I'll ever record. The next audio book that Dave Ramsey does, I'll probably sound a lot like Dave Ramsey. >> Kevin Kevin Olirri said that he went to Dubai and they did a whole AI imaging of him. He said a few phrases. They got a few hours of him, >> but now they could edit in real time any advertisement of him without him ever being involved in it. They just type in the script, >> which is a little scary, but the point is it's huge opportunity. >> You don't even need AI to do it. You don't need to need digital to do it. But you've got ease to market. You know, if you old econ class was what are the barriers? It's it's how difficult it is to get to market. How trapped is that market? How hard is it to pass the test to become one of those? you know how ease of entry it's easy to become a real estate agent it's hard to become a securities salesperson because you got to pass a series 6 series 7 63 which is a lot like CPA exam real estate test I took in 27 minutes so I mean it's ease of entry but in general can I what's it take to suddenly just take my idea out there so to sit and do nothing at the best opportunity in the history of mankind is such a is so sad I had in such a freaking waste. I'm so excited for your all's generation and what's going to happen. What's going to happen to Ramsay when I'm gone and the stuff that these that the people in this building are working on right now is mindblowing and it's just man the scale can go hockey stick up and to the right. I'm just it's a good time to be alive. >> So for those that aren't capitalizing on the amount of opportunity around them, what is the primary obstacle that's preventing them from doing that then? >> Head space, belief. It's just belief that if they they plant the seeds, the corn will grow. >> Exactly. And if you don't plant seeds, 100% of the time corn will not grow. That's the problem. And and so sometimes when you plant seeds there, there's not a lot of rain and and it sun's too hot and you don't get a good crop. Sometimes when you plant seeds, God brings the rain and the sun and it's perfect and you get a bumper crop. You don't control the sun and the rain, but you do control whether or not you plant. And 100% of the time you're planting you you're going to get some kind of a yield on that and you may learn something that next year you plant differently. You iterate and you change the product line. I mean the the number of things we do today at Ramsey tactically to deliver goods and services to the customer that we did 10 years ago is really close to zero. Of course, you've got to iterate and change how you're doing it and what you're doing and the way it looks and the way it feels and the way the way the book business is versus when I did my first book. When I did the first book and I was on the Today Show, people actually watched the Today Show back then. It was crazy. And and and there were these things called bookstores and they had books in them and people went there and and I would have a thousand people in a line to do a book signing. I can't even imagine that happening today. No chance that would happen today. And so, um, I don't think there's anybody that famous hardly that that would be maybe maybe Taylor Swift. Okay. But but I mean, who's going to s to to go to Barnes and Freaking Noble and stand in line, everybody got their coffee to s get a book signed by somebody you think something good about. Okay? Doesn't happen much. If I did a book signing today, there'd be 14 people there. I mean, it just wouldn't come. I disagree. I bet you would get a thousand people shut up. >> I don't. I really don't. I I mean I our because a well it just doesn't it's not the way people are consuming the product anymore. It's shifted. And so to continue to do it the same way and not iterate and follow where people are is a thing. So friend of mine does does a reality show. I was talking to him yesterday and it was very successful um 10 years ago. >> Mhm. and they took it off and they quit and they retired and now they're trying to come back with version 2.0. Okay. And but when they did it before it was on cable and I was talking to him yesterday. He said, "You know how many people have cable?" I said, "No." He said, "Nobody." He goes, "It's a problem." He said, "We suddenly woke up and realized we put out a reality show on cable and expected somebody to watch it. It's hilarious. Nobody's watching it." He goes, "We've got to reboot this thing and we're we got to get Hulu. we got to get YouTube TV. Um, you know, he said, "I've got to re I'm doing a distribution deal for the fall. I've got to reset all these episodes we've done and send them out again and try to restart this thing again. Otherwise, we're going to have to close up the tent on it." But, um, but yeah, he's like, "The marketplace moved and we acted like it didn't and so we're sitting here with nothing. It's not working." So, yeah, you got to you got to follow around what's happening. So, if you take a person that's struggling with their finances in their current situation right now, I feel like back in the day, the advice would have been, okay, we'll start cutting back a little bit on your expenses, start saving a little bit more money. Whereas now, if you're reiterating your strategy, seems as though the best solution would be to try to take on some more work or be more creative and making more money. So, what would you say to a person that's struggling right now in 2025? Should they lean more into cutting their finances or should they lean more into trying to expand on their income? Oh, the answer is the same as it was 30 years ago. Both. Yeah. In the old days, we would just say go deliver pizzas. Um, which now is Door Dash or whatever, right? But, um, but we said go, you know, go to Papa John's. They'll hire you if you can breathe and you bathed and maybe bathed. And, um, you know, and they'll and you can deliver a pizza, right? And and when you go to the front door and people ask how you're doing, say, "Better than I deserve." Because that way they might know that you're listening to this show. That's why you're working extra job. They'll give you extra tip. And so use the code and um so get your income up. Yeah. And cut your expenses. And the same thing's true today. Get your income up, cut your expenses. The difference is that if you are a teacher, there's no reason you should do Door Dash. You should do online tutoring at 50 bucks an hour. And you can set it up in about 45 minutes. And there's no if you want to get your income up. I mean, it's just uh if you've got a PhD in something, you know, uh on the online classes, you you can make seriously good money as your side hustle, you know, and so you've got, again, the the the world that we live in today just gives you so much ease of entry into things. You don't have to get in your Chevy chevet and deliver a Papa John's. Is a lot of stuff you can do to get your income up temporarily uh with an unreasonable number of hours. and uh you know an unhealthy work life balance temporarily because you have an unhealthy freaking mess you created and you've got to dig out of it and so yeah and you got to sell the car that's 50% of your dad gum income and so and you got to not go on vacation and you don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there until you get this stuff straightened out. So yeah, you got to do both. You got to get your income up and your outgo down and that's called margin. And the the more extreme you do that, the more margin you'll have and the long the less time you'll spend in hell, the faster you'll get out. So, I I recommend ripping the band-aid off. I mean, like, make your broke friends think you've joined a cult. I mean, go bananas for a short period of time. That intensity gets you out so much faster than trying to wander out. Let's say you seize control of a person's life that's not doing great financially. They're a little confused, a little lost. Maybe let's just say they're 25 years old. This is not supposed to be me. I'm 26 for the record. This is this is someone else. And they're not pleased with where they're at. What exactly would you do? Would you be like, "Okay, get a job, work 80 hours, find a girlfriend, you want to make your wife, you know, find a local church." What would be like the actual directional things that you would you would tell them to do? My friend Henry Cloud um write is writing a book right this second on a concept he's taught for years called figure out what your desired future is and then reverse engineer out of your desired future. this is where I want to be and this is where I am then what if if where I am is not where I want to be. What must be true that's not true now for me to get there? and um said that will lead you then to the tactical things that you're pointing to once you solve that. What must be true for me to be the 10year-old ver the 10 year from now version of me to be have the you know have this net worth have a career that looks like this a spiritual walk that looks like this a physical condition that looks like this a relationship with good friends uh high quality relationships and possibly even one of those being your lifemate your partner your wife um you know what what does my what does a the perfect version of 10 years from now look like and then reversing engineer what must be true to get there. And so if I want a robust spiritual walk, yeah, that'd be involved. And you know, if you're Jewish, you'd head off to the synagogue. If you're Christian, you'd head off to a good church. Or if you're not anything, head off to a good church and figure it out, right? Um and be forewarned, there are people in those churches that aren't perfect. But um that's why they're there, too. So um but but e either way, you can learn things there. Oh, and watch who you hang around with because you're going to become who you hang around with, you know? And so if all your friends are sitting in doom scrolling all day long and don't have any ambition and all they do is smoke pot and doom scroll, uh you can pretty well be assured that 10 years from now you're going to look just like who you hang around with. Um be not deceived. Evil company corrupts good habits. You will become who you hang around with. All the data shows that. Um tons of research that shows that. Not only your physical condition, the words you use, the books you read, the movies you like, it, you know, you become who your crew is. And so, pick them carefully. What are the biggest problems you see today with men when it comes to work, life, money, and family? Now, fun little story here, but when Jack and I started the Ice Coffee Hour, we had to figure out everything ourselves. From the best audio equipment to use, the best cameras, how to book guests. It was a challenge. Every day was a unique experience that we had to figure out ourselves. That's why if you're starting your own business, you know just how relevant today's sponsor is. And that would be Shopify. Shopify is basically your all-in-one business partner. They power millions of businesses worldwide. From major brands like Mattel and Gym Shark to entrepreneurs just getting started. And here's a fun fact. If you shopped online in the US, there's a really good chance it was through Shopify cuz they power about 10% of all American e-commerce. Plus, what's great about Shopify is that you get access to a complete design studio with hundreds of readytouse templates to build a beautiful online store that perfectly matches your brand. And there's no coding needed. 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And with everything going on in the economy, it makes sense why. Like the dollar is already down 9% this year, while gold is up 25%. That is a major shift in purchasing power. And it might not feel like it right now, but it certainly adds up over time. Plus, with potential rate cuts on the horizon, hard assets like gold and silver have historically done really well in that environment. So, if you're holding too much in cash, you could be missing on some upside. Today's sponsor, Noble Gold Investments, helps people explore different options. You could roll over part of your 401k or IRA into physical gold or silver, or make a direct purchase. Either way, it's a strategic method to hedge outside of the stock market. Their focus is on education, not pressure. You get a dedicated specialist, upfront pricing, and clear answers to your questions from a US-based team. And they offer a guaranteed buyback program, so you have flexibility in the event you want to sell down the line. So, if you've been thinking about protecting your wealth with some real assets, now could be a great time to learn some more before any potential rate change hit. Head to noblegoldinvestments.com/istic to get started today or schedule a free consultation. Again, that is noblegoldinvestments.com/ist or you can also click the link down below in the description. Thank you so much. And now, let's get back to the podcast. What are the biggest problems you see today with men when it comes to work, life, money, and family? Men have been uh devalued and trivialized and been the villain or the clown of everything for good 20 years. You don't see a TV commercial where the dad is the hero. He's an idiot. Or a sitcom where the dad is a hero. He's an idiot. the 12-year-old is the smart one and they smart off through the whole script and um they're the brilliant one, you know, and um the um but the dad's a doofus and the mother rolls her eyes at the doofus that she picked as a life partner. And if you do that to any segment of the economy long enough, eventually they begin to believe it. And so we have 7.2 two million men that are able-bodied, able-minded that are not engaged in the workplace right now. They're doing nothing. They're sitting because the entire culture has said, "You're a doofus. You're a buffoon. You're valueless. Manhood, masculinity is toxic by its very nature. And so, you're of no value." And um the problem is it's destroying not only economics but social fabric as well because we do know the data on kids um particularly daughters uh the cues they take from their dad are devastatingly impactful good or bad. And so an engaged dad who's builds confidence and uh gives their daughter hugs growing up um until she leaves home and even after she leaves home builds a confident daughter, a daughter that is not sexually promiscuous, a daughter that finishes college, a a daughter that will not be victimized in the marketplace. Um that comes from their dads. The data shows that. Um and so when the dad is not engaged, it's horrible for the social fabric does and it messes with sons too, but it's a different thing. The father wound on the son on us sons is different. But um and it's very real. But the uh uh but economically speaking, what we're doing is is we've got 7.2 million of these guys doing nothing. Zero. They're being supported by a disability check. and they're not disabled, but they signed up and claimed disability. They're being supported by their girlfriend, their mother, they're being supported by something else. They are not generating an income in the marketplace. And so, their personal dignity has just eroded. And to get those people back re-engaged, if we open up a whole bunch of factories in America because manufacturing comes back to America with this Trump stuff, I don't know who's going to be in there working. I don't think those guys want to go back in there. I think they have gotten pretty comfortable sitting on their couch and lost hope. And so, we've got to say, okay, being male is not evil. Being male is not necessarily holier either. >> Uh but it's not evil and it is different than being female. And it is a thing. And and ladies can produce wonderful creative things and wonderful incomes in the economy. And so can gentlemen. And so, you know, let's go be gentlemen and ladies and let's go do the best things we can for our society, for our culture, our community, and each other. And get re-engaged and and quit telling everybody that the worst possible thing you could be I is a, you know, a white guy. You know, that's like the wor like the worst human on the planet in America. It's the only one in America that no one takes up for. So what do you think those people need to hear to make a change today >> if you were speak terms of owning themselves and making a change in the workforce and in their lives? >> It it is a uh you know it's a destiny thing. It's you do have the power. >> You do have the power to do things. You do have the ability to just stand up and decide I'm in business. You can just decide I'm going to do these things and and all of a sudden you are. I mean and uh it's an empowerment idea or message is called hope. Um and you know I I think where we lost connection was that if I do all the right things I'm not going to get the result. If I plant the corn I'm not going to get corn. I'm going to get poison. Poison's going to grow. Nightshade's going to grow out of the ground if I plant corn. Somehow we got this disconnect and we've got to go back to believing the cause and effect of uh hard work, cause and effect of generosity, the cause and effect of kindness and compassion, the cause and effect of having good quality relationships that there's a tie in that these things are not compartmentalized that they are all there's a holistic view to all this. Um so you start to understand okay building a net worth of a million or $2 million is not compartmentalized. The tiein is that we found 83% of them have an onboard spouse that works as their teammate. That's not a disconnect. That is causal. >> That that's not simply correlation. And um versus if you interview the general public, you know, 40% say their spouse and them were on the same page, but they're not obviously not winning in these areas. Um and that you know so when you start to believe in the cause and effect then you go okay it's really important that you and I get on the same page darling and that we are pulling this wagon together instead of apart and um >> what questions do you ask or what questions should someone ask their spouse to make sure you're on the same page. >> Let's start talking about that desired future and be in agreement on that. If we got our desired future laid out in HD high definition, we can see the sweat beads on it. We can see the hair color on it. We know exactly what winning looks like. It'll change, but for today, we're in agreement that that's where we want to go. Then we can start reverse engineering together. What sacrifices have we got to make? What must be true that's not true today? What price do we have to pay to get there? When we started this business, um, I had just gone broke a couple years before. We had nothing. Uh, I made $130,000 flipping real estate the year I started this. And it was three years after I'd gone bankrupt. And I really wasn't flipping it. I was just tying it up and selling the position, selling the contracts. >> Um, and I did the numbers and I said, "Sharon," we sat down and looked at it and she said, "This stuff whether you're teaching at church, this financial peace stuff, this is really helping people and you we need to talk about that." Okay. So, we're praying about it. I'm like, "Okay, I think God is telling us to go just do that and not do real estate anymore. But if we do, best I can figure selling a few books and a few speeches and a, you know, having a little class. I might might make $62,000. Here's the numbers. Here's how I get there, which is half of what I made the year before. I got little babies and a wife who's just gone through a bankruptcy." And we're looking at this and she and I said, "Do you think we ought to do that?" And she said, "I think we're supposed to do that." I said, "You you really think we're supposed to take a pay cut in half?" This is the weirdest stupid conversation. She says, "Not a pay cut in half. It's a step. It's what it's what we must do to get to where." And she said, "Can you imagine how many people are in debt? If we helped a few million of them, how much that 62,000 would change?" And we talked about it. We said, "Okay, but you know what this means? It means I got 16-hour days for the next two years. You're going to be a single mom who's just gone through bankruptcy. I'll be here, but but I ain't going to be here. I mean, I'm going to be on the road talking books. I'm going to be talking to radio stations to get them put me on. I'm going to be in a ballroom speaking somewhere. I'm going to be at the back table selling books. I'm going to be at the office till 11:00 at night counseling somebody who's broke. I mean, that's what this means. And she's like, "Yeah, but let's give it two years and see what it does." And for two years, I worked 16our days. But so what do you do? What am Why am I bringing that out? Not to brag, but obviously it worked out. Okay, no kidding. Life's good, right? But the we laid out the desired future where we want to be 10 years from now, but here's the price that must be paid to get there. And only then together could we do that. If she had been at home going, you know, we need work life balance. You know, I'm here with these little kids all day long by myself. You and what are we doing? Financial peace my butt. You know, if that if that had been the routine, which she never said a single word like that at all to her credit. I mean, she was a freaking warrior. and uh she'd send me out the door with lashes on my back. Get out there, you know. And so um quite the opposite. So, but if you if we weren't joined at the hip on this, if we weren't aligned on the price that must be paid to get to the desired future, we couldn't have done it. We couldn't have done it. And so people say, "Well, what about Sharon Ramsey?" Sharon Ramsey is the hero of the story, the whole story, because I, unlike most of the people that I know, I have not had to deal with a highmaintenance spouse who's always driving the train off the tracks the whole time I'm over here trying to work. Instead, it was quite the opposite. It's like, we're pulling together. We're pulling together. And anyone that says or does anything about this place, you don't want her in your life. Now, what would you do if she were not as supportive? And what would you do in the case? >> We'd have to talk about it until we got aligned to where we both are in agreement. We both have to believe that the price we're paying. And if we don't, we can't do it. And so, we have a saying at our house today is uh when in doubt, we don't. So, like if we have a we had a a generosity thing, a substantial one come across our plate the other day that we were looking at. We met with the people and I'm like, "Yeah, this looks great. I think. And she's like, I I don't know. I just I don't no something wrong in the air. I I just can't I can't tell what it is, but I don't feel right about it. Um I called the guy up and I go, we're we're not we're not in right now. We're not going to be able to help right now. Well, did we do something wrong? No, you didn't do anything wrong at all. It's just Sharon and I have to be aligned cuz it's too much money for us to not I mean 100 bucks. Do you know she gripes at me about over tipping all the time, but that's tough deal with that. But I'm not but I'm talking about on major decisions we need to be aligned or when in doubt don't I mean we don't I don't come home and I don't buy a car and come home and go look what I did and I can afford to buy whatever car I want. I mean it's not but we just we talk about stuff like that before we do that. We certainly don't buy a property the property I was talking about early in this conversation. >> She was in the truck when I'm sitting on the thing. We drove up on the piece of land and we're sitting there looking at the traffic looking at the thing. I'm like okay what do you think? She goes oh this is good. We're doing this. But if I had bought that thing and she was not aligned, >> all I would I would hear about it forever or vice versa, right? If she was trying to get me to do it and I didn't want to do it and it wouldn't work. It doesn't work when you're not pulling together. >> When did you go from feeling rich to actually being rich? >> I don't even know what that means. Um >> well, let's let's say like like going through this bankruptcy at that young age. Obviously, that's going to be it's going to create some scars that are going to take a while to heal. >> Defining scars. Yeah. >> When would you say you finally felt rich after that? Because you could get rich and be rich, but you may not feel rich after such a traumatic event of filing for bankruptcy at that young age. So, when did you actually feel wealthy? Um well we did end up making 62,000 that year. >> Exactly 62. >> Yeah we actually hit it the projections were devastatingly accurate >> and the um the following year we made 104 and the following year I made 250. um and then I did a book deal that was sweet and um took off somewhere along in those years in those early years right there. I remember Sharon, we went to the grocery store and uh we had envelopes with our grocery money in it and I said, "You know what? Let's do something different than we go to the grocery store. I want you to go in the grocery store and we've got the money. I want you to buy everything you want." and she filled up a whole buggy with stuff without I said, "Don't look at the price. If you see something you want in the grocery store, let's just get it." And obviously it was not a huge amount of money, but it was it felt >> like we were okay for the first time, you know? It felt like we can we can buy anything in this grocery store and we're okay. We're okay. It felt okay. That sounds silly, but it's a it actually happened. And she tells that story occasionally still to some of our friends. She's like, I remember that time we went to the store and and it wasn't like we went to some thing in New York and she bought a purse, a coach purse, which she has done too, but that it's nothing like that. That stuff is that stuff by then. It's like whatever. And uh just stuff. But um but yeah, going to the grocery store when we had been worried about feeding our family and the lights and water had been cut off at the house when we went broke. I mean, and and just like a handful of years later, here we are and we can go into that same grocery store where we were counting coupons and doing every little thing and we could just buy a basket of groceries, anything we wanted. It it felt like we were okay. And and then you go through other stages emotionally at different net worths and different incomes where you start to go, I mean, I remember buying a car when it became irrelevant. That was a weird moment, you know. It's like whatever I wanted to buy, I could buy it and it's not it's not a relevant number, you know, and to me, I'm a redneck kid. Buying a car or buying a good big old truck or something is like that's a thing, you know, and so um but it it's like that grocery buggy. It was irrelevant, but it was relevant. >> Are there different tiers to wealth that you've noticed where doors have opened up at seven figures, eight figures, nine figures, and what are they? >> Definitely. Um I I I don't know that it's a certain tier, but um when you reach the point, I always call it the uh the pinnacle point where you pedal and pedal and pedal and pedal and pedal to get to the top of the hill and finally you're there and you're in Tennessee, that means you can go down the hill. And what what that is mathematically for me, and I've taught people this, and I've had a lot of positive affirmation that this is accurate. When you get enough money that your money makes more than you make. That's an interesting point. When your investments generate more dollars than you generate, meaning that if you didn't work, you'd be more than fine, right? Um when you're when you're, you know, when you get a let's say you get $2 million and you've got it in mutual funds and you say, "Okay, I could pull I could pull uh 150 off of that a year and not touch it. it still grow and I'd be just fine. Um, and you, you know, you've been living on a hundred and you've been making a hundred and you get to that point. Well, that's a that's a an emotional point in the person's life. Um, and and I think that's different for different people that come come at it from different angles, different backgrounds, different things. I mean, you come from another country where you were in poverty and you come here and the great American dream is in front of you and you grow. probably doesn't take as much to have those emotional moments as it might some kid who started middle class and goes to a good school and comes out with a four-year degree. And it probably takes that person a little more to um have that same exact feeling than it does someone else. Uh but but either way, you get to the point where the money these are diff to me there are different flash points where the money becomes le uh the the the things the money is doing becomes less and less relevant because there's enough of it whatever the investment is and it's um it's a spiritual thing almost an emotional thing almost but it's certainly a mathematical thing. >> Is there any tier to money that you have not yet accessed? We hear about like the FU money is what people say like Rogan has that. Rogan says he has that. Is there any sort of tier that you have yet to eclipse and you're looking to or is it >> all the same? >> You know, I Joe certainly has done that. Congratulations, Joe. Um the um and I uh I don't think that's an amount of money. I think that's an attitude. Um, you want to get to the point that you're I think what he's saying is you're not dependent on someone else. I don't have to have your approval or affirmation, whoever you are, anyone. I've got enough that I can function without if that network wants to throw me off. If that thing wants to cancel me, well, screw you, you know, and you're fine. And we're certainly at that point here, too. Um, but I don't really approach it like who can I flip off. >> It's more like I'm approaching it like who can I serve? cuz I get a lot more personal satisfaction out of service than I do flipping off. Although I'm willing to do both. >> Okay. Well, I think we got to wrap up here, but I have one last question. All right. >> So, we recently had a conversation with Charlie Kirk, and everyone loved this part of the podcast. I got to ask you, is it ever acceptable for a girl to pay on the first date? >> Or should a guy always pay on the first date? You know, I again, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. It doesn't bother me either way. Uh I grew uh the Ramsay women that grew up in my house. My daughters are massively competent and confident and they would not be freaked out one way or the other. They wouldn't bother them one way or the other, which is really what I would want for them. Um, but what I did find out is I've got two absolutely incredible sons-in-law. Both of them are just studs. And I used to say I hit the son-in-law lottery. And I and I quit saying that. I didn't hit the son-in-law lottery. We taught those girls how to pick. And we ran off some losers and explained to them why they were leaving. No, you can't. You're you're done. You're done. You just move on. And >> you would encourage that? >> Oh, no. I did it. I said, "You're done." And up until what age? >> Well, they were in high school. But I mean, I'm teaching these girls, "What do you want in a husband? Don't date somebody." You know, >> how do they obey you, though? I feel like in high school, they live in my house and eat my food. >> Wouldn't that make them better at like sneaking off? >> It could. It could. But basically, we not only ran them off, we told them why. Okay? You know, we told them why this guy's got this is the trajectory this guy's on. This is >> How do you know that? Well, when you're talking to him, you can see I mean, he's he's smoking a lot of pot. He's not going to make it. You know, it's not it's not gonna work out. And so, um, never seen a successful pthead. I've known a bunch of them, but I've never seen one. And so, except at smoking pot. And so, you know, no, you're not going out with Bobby. Bobb's a pthead. So, um, um, 3 weeks later, Bobby ran his car in the ditch and would have hurt my daughter would have been sitting there, you know, and that true story that happened. And so, everybody's pissed. Bobby's mother's pissed. My wife was a little pissed. My daughter was certainly pissed, but Bobby ain't coming. We're done. So anyway, we went through all that thing to say, >> where are you now? Where are you now? Where is Bobby now? >> Crypto millionaire. >> I changed his name. That's not I changed his name. That's not his name. Yeah, he's he made all his money in cannabis. But um >> but uh anyway, we What character qualities do you want in Prince Charming? Because that's going to be your husband and you're going to spend a long time with them. Who do you want in a man? What are you looking for? And um I think our daughters would tell you that they would want a a relationship where they had a vote, where they could bring their competency to the table. And it, you know, we've got a partnership here. It's not the man telling the woman what to do cuz that ain't going to fly with my kids. I can tell you that. It doesn't fly with her mother either. So, um we're going to have a partnership. You're going to trust my competency and I'm going to trust yours and then we're going to join together and we're going to serve each other. Now, what how does that what does that say about who pays for the first date money on the first date? Probably says the guy is cuz he's probably wanting to serve this this princess. He's this is his queen. He wants to serve her. He wants to love her well. He wants to do something for her. It but it's not an obligation. It's a it comes out of his character probably. But if he doesn't, it probably doesn't disqualify him. I wouldn't run a guy off because he didn't pay for the first date. I wouldn't have done that. But I would run a one off for character qualities. They're, you know, lack of integrity. And, you know, you have a known reputation. And >> yeah, we don't we're not we're not trying to trying to run use our daughters to fix the world. That's not what we're doing. No. >> Well, Dave, it is always an honor to have you on the show. It's always such a great time. I love the maximal personal responsibility theme. It's one of my favorite things. I love it. I absolutely love it. So, thanks for that. >> Thanks, guys. >> Valuable. Thank you for watching. Thank you to the team helping produce this. >> Thanks. Till next time. >> Thank you.