Video summary
In a reaction to his recent debate with Gary on Steven's show, Daniel Priestley acknowledges the validity of public pain regarding housing affordability and social breakdown but strongly disputes Gary's proposed solution of taxing the rich. While agreeing that many people feel punished for following rules or struggling to start families due to high costs and loneliness, Priestley argues that heavy taxation will accelerate brain drain by driving essential talent away from countries like the UK. He cites historical precedents where nations lost their creative industries, such as British artists moving intellectual property rights to Amsterdam's low-tax jurisdiction in the 1970s after facing steep taxes at home. Furthermore, he points out current trends of wealthy individuals relocating to places with flat tax rates or favorable incentives, like Portugal and Italy, suggesting that aggressive fiscal policies will simply push businesses and workers toward more entrepreneur-friendly environments rather than solving economic inequality within a single nation. Priestley frames the current global crisis as a structural transition between two distinct eras: the declining Industrial Revolution system and the ascending Digital Revolution. He explains that just as steam engines displaced agricultural laborers in the late 1700s, causing a period known as "the ages pause" where millions were left destitute before the economy adjusted, technology is now devaluing skilled jobs by automating tasks, simplifying processes so anyone can do them, and outsourcing work globally. This technological shift creates a fundamental mismatch between an education system designed for the industrial age and the reality of today's digital landscape. Consequently, individuals who rely on selling their time or are geographically limited to local customers find themselves in decline, while those leveraging technology to operate virtually from anywhere experience unprecedented freedom and wealth. The core distinction Priestley draws is between living "in the dirt" versus living "in the cloud." Businesses that remain bound by geography, such as traditional high street shops competing against Amazon's global reach, are losing out because they cannot compete with digital entities that serve international customers 24/7 without physical presence. He illustrates this divide using a marathon analogy where some runners receive bicycles or cars (technology), allowing them to finish the race while others run on foot and become angry at the disparity. The world is effectively splitting into those who understand how to leverage technology for mobility and global access, and those stuck in old models of selling time for money within local constraints. This division explains why simple solutions like taxing specific groups fail; if a government imposes high taxes or restrictive regulations on digital businesses, that business can simply relocate its virtual operations elsewhere without the massive logistical friction associated with moving physical factories. Looking toward the future path for nations post-Brexit, Priestley argues that countries must choose between becoming social democratic states similar to Sweden and Norway or positioning themselves as "entrepreneur islands" akin to Switzerland or Singapore. He expresses skepticism about a return to high-tax socialism, noting its historical tendency toward collapse unless specific conditions are met, whereas the digital economy offers a chance for nations like the UK to become vibrant hubs for global entrepreneurs if they lower barriers rather than raising them. Despite acknowledging that parts of London and other areas face challenges with homelessness or decay, he maintains that proximity to Europe allows for lifestyle advantages unavailable elsewhere, such as easy access to snowboarding in the Alps or holidays in Spain. Ultimately, his message is one of adaptation: success now depends on embracing digital ascension rather than clinging to industrial-era structures that technology has rendered obsolete and uncompetitive against global rivals.
Read the full video transcript
What were your reflections after your
discussion with Gary on Steven's show?
What have you sort of come to realize
after that? Uh main reflection is that
people are really hurting and that's
real. Um I don't particularly get along
with Gary. I don't like his solution. I
don't like his way of you know putting
his solution onto the world. Um you know
his whole thing about just tax the rich
if you know I'm I'm always extremely
skeptical of simple answers to complex
problems. Um and you know it's already
playing out. I mean it's not even
theory. It's playing out that the rich
are leaving. And I my big thing was,
hey, I agree with you on the problem.
Like, I really agree with you on the
problem, but your solution is going to
damage the country even more. You're
going to literally make the people leave
who we need to stay. Um, and but what
have I taken from it? The pain is real.
A lot of people at the moment are
incredibly upset about the fact that you
can't get a house. uh you if you work a
good job and you're a good person who
follows the rules, you tend to get
punished for it or you certainly don't
get ahead. Um it feels like the the
services that we depend upon uh are
breaking down. It feels like um uh just
the basics of having a fun enjoyable
life have gone away. A lot of people
feel very lonely. Um you know,
relationship formation, having families,
having kids, all of that sort of stuff.
For whatever reason, the world that
we've now created is disrupting all of
the kind of natural things that we used
to do. Yeah. The UK, I think, struggles.
The weather's not fantastic for most of
the year. Oh, and by the way, we're now
going to make it dimmer. I don't know if
you've seen this in the news. The UK
government, for whatever reason, have
decided to spending 50 million on cloud
seeding, and they've decided that they
need to make it darker. That's the one
That's the one thing that the UK needs
more of. Rain. Yeah. Right. There's not
there's insufficient. Well, they they've
just spent 20 billion on solar panels
and now they're going to put more clouds
in the air and it's like what's the
justification for this? They're just
they're high. I just think they're
smokers.
That's that's that's the only logical
explanation. That's the only marijuana.
Yeah, they're just there something's
going on. So strange. I you know the
first time I ever even knew that we
could geoengineer clouds was Dubai. M
when I was in Dubai, I didn't when they
accidentally did a little too much. Uh
well, they did it sort of gently and
then Yeah, they can I guess you can
There was that massive flood and it was
like, "Oh, sorry guys. Yeah, push the
button. That was us. We left it on too
long." Yeah. Crazy. Um but the idea of
doing that in the UK seems absolutely
wild to me. But yeah, you know,
weather's not particularly fantastic.
There isn't just that many exciting
things to do from a lifestyle
perspective. So, if you are someone
that's managed to reach a bit of escape
velocity with having some ex disposable
income, where do you put it? I'm going
to get a bigger TV to watch more
Netflix. You know, there just isn't the
same level of adventure. And it's a
small country. There's not that much
going on. Yeah. Well, I like the
proximity. You know, I I snowboard, so,
you know, it's great to just duck over
to the Alps and go snowboarding. Um, you
you know, it's great to go down to south
of France or Spain. Um, you know, head
down to one of the islands. Uh, you
know, so I love the proximity to to
Europe and European culture. Um, London
still is a great city. You know, there's
a lot there's there's obviously parts of
London that are terri that's terrible,
but it's like ultimately it's a pretty
amazing city. Why do you think Gary's
message is resonating so much at the
moment? It seems to be very popular
online. It's getting lots of plays
because people can't get ahead. So like
if you want to get into like like So
here's my thesis. My thesis is this. The
industrial revolution lasted a couple
hundred years and we had this rise of
the industrial revolution through the
1800s. Then we had like the peak
industrial revolution through the 1900s
and then uh we invented digital. Uh we
invented two things. We invented finance
and digital technology. And with those
two inventions we just completely have
crashed the industrial revolution system
and we have a new system that's in
ascension which is the digital system.
And what's now happening is that you
have people like myself who uh have
digital businesses and living the best
life ever. Um I can live and work from
anywhere. I've got technology. I can,
you know, um run a pretty fun and
affluent life. Uh I would not trade
places for any other time in history.
This is like the best time ever because
I'm surfing the wave of this digital
ascension. Um, and then you've got
people who uh followed the rules, went
to school, went to university, uh, they
became skilled labor, and now they're
trying to sell skilled labor into the
workforce, and that doesn't pay off, and
you can't get a house, and you can't
start a family, and everything's
overcrowded, and um, you know, nothing
works. So, the industrial revolution
system, the the moment that we are in
time right now is the industrial
revolution system is in decline and the
digital revolution is in ascension. And
some people or a lot of people 80 90% of
people are on this downward spiral and a
small group of people are on this upward
spiral and um and and we're just living
through a time of transition. U this is
not the first time this happened in in
the late 1700s we invented the steam
engines and uh in in the UK right
Silicon Valley of 1700s was was York.
Um, so, uh, we invented steam engines
and we invented pumps and we invented
tractors and plows and all this sort of
stuff and and factories uh, and we
created the factory production method.
And, um, there was this time of about 50
years from the late 1700s to the early
1800s where huge numbers of people were
displaced from their jobs. Um, Charles
Dickens writes about uh, kids on the
streets, Oliver Twist. Um there's the
tale of two cities revolutions French
revolution comes along. So essentially
this industrial technology you had 80
90% of people who were living and
working on farmland and had agricultural
related jobs and then machines came
along and did those agricultural jobs.
They got massively displaced. They they
went to the cities they bred and they
were like described like rats. Um in the
UK they put them on boats and sent them
to Australia. Right. This is where I'm
from. Mhm. And uh and they end up um
trying to like you know get rid of
people out of the country. There's too
many people and they're not productive
and we need to get rid of them. So a lot
of um people were displaced because of
technology. And it took 50 years they
call it the angles pause. 50 years for
the economy to start to sink back up
again like two generations. Um you
basically you have the industrialists
and all those working in factories and
and running factories and running
technology and they're making tons of
money. They become wildly successful and
then um the people the peasants um who
are displaced and they you know abject
poverty and outbreak of disease and all
this sort of stuff but it took 50 years
to start normalizing that again. So you
structurally the changing nature of work
is creating inequality. Yeah. My belief
is that this is all tech driven. It's
technologydriven. The the what
everything we're seeing in the world
right now is a mismatch of the world we
were brought up for in the schooling
system and the technology that we now
have available. And essentially we were
prepared for a world that no longer
exists. Our world got disrupted by
technology. I mean to use an example
that we could all relate to. If there
was a hundred of us out on a field
plowing a field and we expected to take
a month and then two guys rock up with
the tractor and they plow it in 2 days
and now we wonder well what does 98 of
us do? Like what are we what are we
going to do? So we can see it in the
past because it's so clear but we're not
as clear because it's happening to us
now. But what's happening
is you know um the the value of jobs is
is going through the floor because of
technology. Uh technology automates
things where you don't have to do the
job but it also simplifies things where
anyone can do the job. Um uh it
outsources things where people can do
the job from anywhere. So those three
superpowers of technology means that um
an individual who like used to have a
pretty good decent job and it was
valuable in the economy if that job is
now simple or outsourcable or
replaceable you know that person is
devalued due to no fault of their own.
They're not a bad person. It's just that
that in the economy is not very valuable
anymore. And a message talking about how
this is unfair. this is a game of
inequality is going to resonate because
it does reflect what's happening sort of
structurally. Yeah. And and the game is
well hey these people have got all the
all the money we just need to take it
take it back off them. But the flaw in
that thinking is that we live in a world
where you can live and work from
anywhere. So this digital technology
that is causing this problem also gives
extreme mobility. You you could run this
from anywhere in the world and you do
run it from anywhere in the world. Um,
if for some reason the UK or the US
said, "Hey, we're not having podcasters
anymore or we're taxing podcasters 80%."
Yeah. My nightmare. Right. Well, you'd
be like, "Oh, that's an inconvenience,
but I'm going to just go to Dubai or
I'll go to Switzerland or I go to Italy
or, you know, I'll go somewhere else."
Um, and it would be inconvenient, but
like mildly inconvenient. It's not it's
not wildly inconvenient. It's not like
picking up a factory uh and putting it
somewhere else. Uh, everything's
virtual. Uh, one of my companies is a
tech company. We have 35 full-time
employees and we have no office. Like
we've never had an office. Everyone
works from all over the world. Um we're
a wildly successful company, one of the
fastest growing in the UK. Um and yeah,
we don't we don't have physical offices,
you know, we can literally just pick up
and rehome the business anywhere. So if
you push people too much, you're going
to get brain drain. The talent is going
to go elsewhere. It's going to go to
Bali. It's going to go to Thailand. It's
going to go to Italy, which has got it's
uh uh Portugal had tons and tons of
incentives. Portugal and and Italy does
now. So Italy, you can pay pay, I think,
a flat tax of €200,000. Mhm. And that's
it. You're done for tax. So if you were
if you're the type of person earning a
million a year, 200 grand, pretty good
deal. Um especially if your current
country is charging you, you know, 400
or 500 grand. Mhm. In the 1970s, um,
they did high taxes or the taxes got
really up there in the UK and we lost
all the British artists. We lost the
Beatles and the Rolling Stones and The
Who and Kinks. They all rehomed their
cataloges in Amsterdam, which had a 1%
tax on uh, intellectual property rights.
And basically the response was all this
incredible intellectual property that
British artists had produced didn't
generate any taxes for the UK. You've
got it now. Yeah.
I wonder whether I don't know. I I have
a bunch of friends who have also left
the UK. Uh Jack Butcher who's over here
from Visualized Value, George Mack, who
literally landed here yesterday. He was
in Dubai for the last four and a half
years. Now he's in the US. And um I'm
tempted.
I'm tempted. I don't know.
It's it is one of those things where you
don't want to feel like you're dancing
on the sort of smoldering remains of
some place. And that's not to say that
the UK is doomed, but I do get the sense
that uh it wouldn't surprise me if Gary
and Jimmy the Giant, you know, both of
whom have consumed a good bit of their
content and I find interesting. Um I
don't know whether I'm not smart enough
or know enough about economics to work
out the veracity or successfulness of
their proposals, but I can see the
popularity of them and I think okay well
are you going to end up moving further
and further toward a more socialist
style uh construction when it comes to
the way that the country is going to be
put together financially. Yeah. And we
know how that ends. Socialism always
ends the same way in collapse. It just
happens you know over and over and over
again. There's a few exceptions to the
rule. You know, social democratic
socialist countries like the Swedes and
Norway and there's some reasons why they
haven't collapsed under the weight of a
big government. But the vast vast vast
majority of countries that try this
experiment collapse. Um the UK has to
make a decision post Brexit. What does
it want to be? Does it want to be um the
USA's, you know, 51st state? Does it
want to be in lock step? Um, does it
want to be uh the the fifth Nordic
country and become a, you know, social
democratic socialist country? Um, does
it want to be entrepreneur island, the
the Switzerland or the Singapore of
Europe? Um, it's got to pick a pick a
lane and and go for it. M problem is you
got all the people in London who want to
be entrepreneur island uh you know and
turn the place into like an amazing sort
of uh vibrant place for entrepreneurs to
come and set up companies but you've got
all the people outside of London who
want it to be essentially the Nordic uh
fifth Nordic country uh want it to be
Sweden 2.0 or whatever. Yeah, it's
interesting coming from the northeast of
the UK you know very blue collar and
that there was not much by the way of
entrepreneurialism. Maybe someone would
own a window cleaning business. It kind
of sucks because the northeast of the UK
was the heart of the industrial age.
That was literally Stockton on tease was
where the first steam engine was
actually constructed and it went to
York. Yeah. And that was the quantum
computer of the day. Like a steam
engine. Can you imagine like seeing a
steam engine in like when it was first
rolled out? It's like magic. It's magic.
It's like us seeing chat GBT for the
first time. It's like what the hell have
they created? I guess it just shows how
these little phases, you know, you talk
about empires falling and but you have
little microcosms of industries falling
and uh bubbles falling as well. And you
know, currently SF is still kind of it
for tech, but if you keep pushing people
into like stupid stuff, the living
standards, you don't clean up the
street. I walked through downtown San
Francisco and San Francisco is this
wonderful blend of fruity and homeless.
Like those are the two ends of the
spectrum like super super liberal and
really really sketchy. It's a snapshot
into the future because imagine that the
world is dividing into dirt and cloud
and in the cloud is your digital
environment. That is where you live in
the digital space and um in the cloud
anyone anywhere could be your customer.
So it doesn't matter if someone is in
Brazil or Brisbane or Bangalore or
Budapest, right? Uh they can be your
customer. If they can, you know, click a
link, they're they're a good good
customer in the in the dirt. Uh in the
the world of geography, you can only do
business with people who are who are
local. Um so you have local customers.
And what's happening is that all of
these businesses that are local,
geography limited are losing out to all
the businesses that are international,
global, digital. So you can even see
examples of like a little local grocery
store and they're scratching their head
going or or every in the UK we have this
thing called the High Street. And the
High Street is like the main shopping
street in every little small town. Um
and they're all closing down and they're
sitting there going, "Well, what's going
on?" Well, we all know what's going on.
People are ordering on Amazon. You know,
they're they're getting their groceries
delivered and they're buying their
products and services on Amazon with a
click. So, one big American company is
able to look after all the geographies
for all the things all at once, all the
time, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Why
am I going to walk down into this little
local high street and and go into like a
a shop and see if they've got something
when I can just do it in a click? So,
the world is this this is this world
dividing. Um, and it's a little bit like
for hundreds of years we've all been
running a marathon
race and then some people get given
bicycles and some people get given cars
and then everyone's angry as hell
because the bicycles and the cars are
getting wildly different times compared
to the people who run. Mhm. And why is
that happening? Because a bicycle is
technology and a car is technology and
it's it's essentially once you see it
you see it everywhere. You see that
essentially the world is dividing
between those who know how to leverage
technology and those who are not
leveraging a lot of technology. Is that
the fundamental changing nature of work
in your opinion? That's it. That's it.
It's all it's all clouds and dirt. It's
basically are you running your entire
life in this new economy, this digital
economy, or are you essentially stuck in
the industrial age model of going to a
like if you go to a office that's old
technology. Um, if you have a start time
and a finish time and you essentially
measure your if you're selling time for
money, that's old technology. It's a
really old way of doing things.
um if you are limited in any way by
geography to who you can sell to uh
that's old technology. So all these
things that are just like the most
normal things in the world um
essentially have just been superseded
over the last 5 years since co uh which
accelerated the whole thing and and now
the world has divided between those who
get it and those who are stuck uh in the
old system. In other news, this episode
is brought to you by Momentous. If your
sleep's not dialed, taking ages to nod
off, you're waking up at random times
and feeling groggy in the morning,
Momentous Sleep
Packs. How did I miss both of those? Are
here to help. They're not your typical
knock you out supplement overloaded with
melatonin. Just the most evidence-based
ingredients at perfect doses to help you
fall asleep more quickly, stay asleep
throughout the night, and wake up
feeling more rested and revitalized in
the morning. which is why I take these
things every single night and why I
trust Momentous with my life or at least
with my sleep because they make the
highest quality supplements on the
planet. What you read on the label, it's
what's in the product and absolutely
nothing else. And if you're still
unsure, they've got a 30-day money back
guarantee. So, you can buy it completely
risk-f free. Use it and if you do not
like it for any reason, they will give
you your money back. Plus, they ship
internationally. Right now, you can get
35% off your first subscription and that
30-day money back guarantee by going to
the link in the description below or
heading to
livemus.com/modernwisdom using the code
modernwisdom a checkout. That's l i v m
o m n
o.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom a
checkout. Thank you very much for tuning
in. Watch the full episode with young
Mr. Priestley right here.
Come
on, hurry
[Music]