Customer Feedback: Why Every Business Needs It [WEBINAR]

great and welcome to this month's redback business skills show i'm your host daniel kim and it's great to have your company once again now for the first time in many years we are coming to you live in a remote format today hence the headsets and this is all against the backdrop of social distancing and restrictions around travel isn't it great that we happen to be a conferencing company as well as a streaming company because the show must go on now on the program today we are exploring the importance of customer feedback and joining me live via video link to help us understand why customer feedback is critical at a time like this is the ceo of jago terry wiley terry welcome to the show oh thank you daniel i appreciate you having me on oh it's great to have you with us isn't it weird that we're doing these um video link ups and everything it's it's a sign of the times that we're living in sure is and as you say good job that you're in that business yes absolutely very thankful actually um it's not the easiest of times for people now customer feedback has always been a staple in business but it's absolutely essential in times as uncertain as these yeah absolutely i mean obviously challenging times at this uh at this point so you know customer feedback in in many ways can play a more important role for businesses during this time of change so it's a timely for me personally i think it's a very timely subject to have yeah now customer feedback is also a bit of a broad area so can you tell us a bit about what we're going to focus on today yeah absolutely uh and you're right i mean what it may sound a bit obvious in terms of what customer feedback is and quite often customer feedback is part of a program you know a customer feedback or customer experience program and and having a method in which to gather and collate customer feedback is is quite often part of that program and and a very critical important part of it so we're going to focus a bit more on that today in terms of what we need to look out for you know why we need to do it and obviously give some sort of case studies on that sort of stuff as well but you know right now i'm conscious that there's different people on the call from different businesses and different life cycles in terms of their customer experience programs so we're going to keep it fairly generic but obviously there's an opportunity to ask me questions later on but right now as an example you know people may be um maybe asking for feedback through a web-based form they may have a tool in place already that they're looking to improve and in some cases they may not be doing anything at all or just relying on the customer contact them with feedback so we're going to look at other ways uh better ways in my opinion in terms of getting that feedback to make a difference to the business that's excellent that clearly lost unpack there and just to put it out there and be really transparent with everyone this is not a sales exercise i mean terry is the ceo of a customer feedback kind of company but the point of today isn't to talk about how good his company is etc etc we're talking about how businesses and organizations need to be able to incorporate feedback in an ongoing manner to help them navigate a time when nobody knows what's going on really and things are changing by the minute almost so that's just out there for everybody's clarification clearly lots to unpack today terry really looking forward to it and of course don't forget you can join our conversation today by clicking the dark blue hand icon at the top of your screen and get a question in normally if we were in the studio i'd have like a little ipad here where your questions come through i'm in a little uh meeting studio room set up here so you know you've got the little headset i've got a little laptop here and a second screen so during q a you'll see me turn away from the camera to read your questions coming through it's not because i'm ignoring you it's because i'm actually reading through your questions so again it's that dark blue hand icon at the top the library icon of course is the resources button if you'd like to download a couple of documents before you go but terry i reckon we can get straight into this let's talk a bit about customer feedback because you know there are a few different types of forms and feedback survey tools out there and customer feedback can sound a bit obvious but you know in your experience is it obvious and what exactly is feedback yeah um it probably does sound obvious and as i mentioned earlier on you know it's it's just a process of of obtaining feedback from our customers and like most things there is there's customer feedback in this customer feedback so it's about how we do it and how we execute and and then deal with that information um so it benefits the business in different ways and and and you're right daniel i mean there's lots of different platforms out there and different survey methods or methodologies um yeah and i'd like to explore those a little bit just just sort of quickly because you know we get asked this question a lot in in terms of what measures should we have in place and there's different survey types and methods you know there's what we call csat so which is short for customer satisfaction normally a one to five scale we have net promoter score or nps as it's commonly known which is a an eleven point scale ranging from zero to ten um some people use graphics so it's you know sad faces happy faces and in some cases it could just be stars so kind of a review style mechanism where we've got five stars the important thing is to not necessarily get hooked up on what that scale is that kind of methodology the the um the critical thing is having a measure in place so whether you choose nps or or a different rating scale it's just about ensuring that you can measure your performance over time and then benchmark yourself against that but personally i am a fan of net promoter score it is a a global standard i guess you know a lot of enterprises use that globally around about 90 95 percent do um it's huge because it's it's simple uh i know that sounds a bit bit probably you know derogatory to nps it's but the beauty is in its simplicity um and and i like the fact that we can actually have a slightly more granular scale that we can measure our performance a little bit better so for instance what i mean by that is if we've got a a one to five rating scale i could be stuck on three for quite a bit but if i'm using a greater more granular scale like net promoter score you know that could be the difference between moving from five to six or six to seven so i can actually see some improvement in that rating scale where i might be stuck on a a lower rating as in a one to five scale so i quite like that granularity but don't get too hung up on the actual scale itself the measure it's just important that you've got a measure in place great let's talk about the delivery methods because a lot of feedback surveys that i've been on have been web pages and email invitations but i've heard recently there have been some sms invites yeah lots of different ways to to ask your customers for feedback and but part of that depends on your business um if you're lucky enough to have email addresses or phone numbers of your customers then that's fantastic you've got an advantage but some businesses don't you know hairdressers or your walk-in trays so retailers etc is a really good example of where they don't always have contact information for their customers so there's different methods to do that you know that could be we've seen that printing on receipts qr codes and qr codes is a common one in fast food restaurants now for instance and it works pretty well some organizations have apps uh so we can have in-app notifications uh we can have wi-fi intercepts so if we're in a restaurant or a cafe or a or a lounge an airport lounge for instance we can where we're we've got wi-fi services we can actually intercept that wi-fi service with a feedback survey as well so lots of different methods the common ones of course are email and sms and for good reason you know we get a good result from those there's a couple of critical differences between email and sms and i'd just like to share those with you but benefits and and disadvantages in some cases to both the uh the advantage of email is that it's free um uh which which is great of course and that in in many cases is is a single justification for using email sms there is a cost but we actually do see an improved response rate when using sms normally around about a five percent improvement when sending emails or sorry sending feedback requests via sms versus email the the slight downside with sms is that we find that responses are a little bit more brief than those via email where a lot of people are using a keyboard so um you know there is some trade-offs in terms of the amount of insight you can get via email versus sms but an improved response rate with sms as well yeah but i would just to add to that actually an important thing and it comes back to the previous question about the the survey methods and the approach and also design what is really critical is whether you're doing it via sms or email the the critical thing is to ensure that the actual survey design is device agnostic it has to be mobile friendly we're seeing now that on average across all the industries all respondent demographic types around about 70 percent of surveys are being completed via a mobile device and that's for our email as well so that's not just sms that's that's email so really critical that it's divided device agnostic and also the design of the survey is really important make sure it's clean make sure it's obvious what you're asking them now i know that sounds ridiculous but too many people now are trying to get too fancy and incorporate too much branding and imagery within a survey template or a survey request via email etc quite often the message and the link can get lost within all that's going on and the busyness so keep it simple absolutely get it on brand incorporate uh some color and and your logo but keep it quite plain and simple it's really important for ensuring you get maximum response rate so many little nuggets of tips you've thrown at um just in that last five minutes segmentary a couple of things i wanted to touch on seventy percent um in terms of emails being opened on phones or actually survey responses altogether being been submitted via mobile device that's that's indicative of a big shift in our device usage preferences and also i'm assuming this is going to only keep him increasing now that everybody's working from home and away from the office absolutely right yeah this is just a trend that's going up uh and it will continue to grow up uh um and we'll touch a bit later on in in um in terms of some of the other aspects of considering mobile and sms as well but it's uh it's absolutely vital for anyone to get a high volume of feedback which then feeds a lot of the benefits into the business so it's a really important consideration yeah and on the note of sms um anybody in this thought just popped up while you're talking about the different channels anybody in communications will tell you different channels serve different purposes and you're talking about getting different results depending on what channels you are using so i suppose that would also lend itself into thinking about what tone is appropriate for what channel and the kind of questions you are asking yeah it's a really good point actually and and coming back to the kind of design of the surveys the tone is very similar uh stuff to avoid apart from messy designs and lots of graphics lots of copy um and copy using different language and i don't mean different language in in the sense of a different language just keep it simple keep it every day language every day speak um which is terrible language but you know that's a reality and also ensure that you ensure that we're not using uh templates because we've seen a lot of tools that are being used um by companies that come from overseas and quite often they may have fairly standard templates in so you know us spelling for instance and it's clearly not localized or personalized enough so the tone is really important to to keep people engaged clearly make sure it's personalized it's an easy thing to do yes because all that has an impact on your likelihood to improve your response rate and keep your customer engaged on the stickler for spelling and grammar and it really really peeps me when i see a little zed at like the american spilling on a lot of official communication channels now prior to today terry i haven't actually been thinking about customer feedback as a communications exercise but just in the last 10 minutes you've changed my thoughts completely it's it's 100 a communications exercise timing is a big part of getting communications right how would you what are your thoughts on timing in terms of feedback when you get it how when you respond and how you respond yeah um a simple answer to that as soon as physically possible so you know that may not be practical for some types of businesses in in some sectors but where possible we like to to connect to system sorry not us but you know what you should be doing is is connecting to back end systems that can effectively and automatically trigger the process of of asking your customer for feedback so as an example you know if i um if i go into a retail store i might be a maya one member for instance i make a purchase my card is scanned and then almost immediately and there's some delays on this but you know when i would say immediately within the hour ideally a a feedback request it automatically pinged and hence this is driving some of that mobile activity as well in terms of people's desire to improve the timeliness of getting feedback is is also driving some of that mobile activity but we see that response rates drop dramatically every 24 hours after the transaction or interaction with the business so every day we leave it response rates decline and again it comes back to the the higher response rate the more data the more value in that information and we'll talk a little bit about the importance of customer recovery as well so the quicker i can find out that a customer is unhappy after a transaction or interaction with my business the more likely sorry the more likelihood i've got to be able to deal with that problem in a timely manner recover that customer and prevent social and word of mouth damage so timeliness is really important when when thinking about surveying customers a number of people are batch sending feedback requests out now that's okay if it's a daily or or every other day but if you're thinking about doing that in you know weekly fortnightly monthly it's too late i appreciate in some cases you may not have a choice in it but there's plenty of options around connectivity to crms or databases accounting systems that can automate that process and do that triggering for you it's a really important part of and an important consideration in any customer feedback process i suppose on top of that once you've gotten that feedback on time the worst thing you can do is not act on it so get that ask for the feedback in time as soon as physically possible like you mentioned once you've got that don't ignore it that's probably going beyond the scope of today's conversation but um just back to the point about the um as physically soon as possible a lot of companies i know have gotten some automation in there and they were able to like get these triggered as soon as possible you gave the example of going to a retail store making a purchase and getting a feedback request within the hour what are your thoughts on those automated systems where they can get it instantaneously well that's that's works really well um and again is that in the moment capturing the customer in the moment and there's there's different examples of that and and being in a restaurant and having a feedback card on the table where you can you can type in a url or scan a qr code is a great example of of getting a customer in the moment and and you're right daniel in terms of is how you deal with that as well and being able to deal with a customer problem almost in the moment too is is a fantastic way of doing it um and just you know even on even on cases where it's a little bit more difficult retail is a really good example where completely understand that a lot of retailers will have a transaction with a customer and and have no idea who that customer is and then potentially no idea whether that experience was positive or not it's really easy to do most post systems allow the capture of email addresses or phone numbers a perfect example is jb hi-fi and you know the way they do it these days so they ask for mobile numbers for every customer and they sms a a receipt to every customer now it's a really simple process um and and their excuse for doing it to the customer is quite often that those printed receipts you know they actually wear and they fade so when you're keeping a receipt as as proof of purchase and for warranty purposes quite often that becomes a bit tricky in six months when your receipts completely faded you can't prove the purchase so their excuse is we now text that to you and you've got it for life brilliant you know really simple but it builds a customer database it allows future marketing but also importantly it allows for the ability to do things like get customer feedback in a very timely manner so that kind of in the moment thing is is a great way of doing it that is good thinking now is there a risk that people would say oh hang on a second i've got this instantaneous request for feedback clearly it's automated and clearly it's not for me because we were talking about the whole personalized questioning before is there a risk there not really as long as it's personalized um you've got someone's name you know obviously it's a simple process to personalize the sms or the email that's going out um again the language used is really important just just to explain why we're doing it and you know the actions we're going to take on it and we talk a little bit more about closing the loop later on and because the end of the process is really important as well but we we never see a reduction in response rates or participation rates based on somebody getting something instantly or very soon after an event it has the opposite impact it goes up all right okay well this is what you were saying before right as time goes by response rates go down must be i must be the um the only weirdo out here because for me i think like well hang on a second this is automated it wasn't for me it's probably just me being an idiot um but we talked about getting the channel right getting the tone right and getting it done on time um what other factors influence response rates can is there something businesses can do to increase those response rates yeah so it's all those things we've just mentioned but also incentivize respondents or customers to to leave feedback be surprised how effective that is or can be i should say not all incentives work and and we have to be mindful about that um as an example and we had this very conversation with someone recently actually it was a chain of cafes that specialize in coffee and they wanted to incentivize customers with free coffee if they gave feedback great idea of course you know makes complete sense uh relating the incentive to our product is is a good way of dealing with that and of course the cost is lower as well the challenge with that is that if i had the coffee and actually i didn't like it and my feedback was negative the last thing i want is a free coffee so there's considerations around what incentives to offer uh you need to be mindful of that actually so i know it sounds a bit ridiculous but it's actually quite true so monetary incentives is always a great idea prize draw type stuff um you know people love a cash incentive and certainly the amount makes a bit of a difference but it really drives response rates we see upward of 20 in some cases more improvement in response rates if there's an incentive attached to it and and please don't don't misunderstand me here there's a big difference between offering incentive for a positive response versus an incentive responses so you know the former being elite um so definitely do not do that but offer an incentive for everyone that responds and the prize draw entry or something like that works really really well right so it's probably some of those things that make a whole lot of sense in hindsight but when you're just in the rush of getting through your business you might not give a lot of thought to it can i just say i've got a little pop-up on my screen that says my laptop battery's running low and i haven't plugged it in can i get you to talk about the next bit which is the translational versus relational feedback i'm gonna go and get a little power plug i probably won't be able to ask you any medical questions about this particular topic but i'll leave you with the audience for about five minutes please not a problem hopefully it doesn't die in the meantime but yeah the transactional versus relational feedback is is actually quite an interesting one transactional is probably quite obvious again and using a retail example uh where somebody goes into store um purchases something and and gets a feedback request after that says very transactional kind of a one-off contact with the company and the customer what we're seeing more and more of and and it is quite important in some industries and to give examples of industries where this is relevant uh home builders real estate mortgage brokers are three good examples and to give you a relevant case study i guess in terms of how we can deploy and have a relational feedback program in places is home builders where there's a quite a lengthy time between the moment a customer signs a contract and you know takes ownership of the building and in fact the contact doesn't stop there it goes beyond that because most builders have what we call a maintenance period which is two to three months after build so there could be six months elapsed between the time a customer deals with us versus the time they they stop dealing with us the biggest mistake in that example is to ask for customer feedback at the end of that build process because the reality is is if your customers had a bad experience and they're upset it's sometime during that build process so it's really important to implement a relational program where we're touching base with the customer on a regular boat on a regular basis through that build process that allows us to identify as a company where there could be weaknesses and things falling down in that process that we can then obviously change and improve on but importantly we can we can understand the customers sorry when the customer is unhappy and deal with that in a more timely manner because the last thing we want is is a customer becoming unhappy after a month telling the world about their bad experience before we as a company or as a brand get to know that and and have the ability to deal with it so having a relational system in place work really well depending upon the industry that you're in and the relationship you have with the customer right that billing example is sort of similar to your coffee example from before right i mean if you get it wrong asking for feedback or giving the wrong incentive can feel like a bit of a slap in the face of the customer spot on absolutely right not a risk you want to be running um i don't quite understand what you mean by the last stop point we've got on the slide here closing the loop can you explain what that means yeah closing the loop and you've you kind of mentioned this earlier on in in that it's not just about getting feedback but how we deal with it and that's really important and there's a couple of different options here and and something that's really easy and often overlooked is responding to customers after they've provided feedback if we ask customers to give us some time to provide us with ratings and and you know textual comments around their experience with us as brands there's nothing more frustrating for a customer just to be left on a landing page that says thank you very much for your feedback we have no idea whether you as a company or us as a company are doing anything about it care especially if my comments and my experience has been negative so it's a it's a relatively easy process and again can be completely automated but can be made to look very personal and authentic a simple automated email that sent out after that process doesn't have to be immediately because clearly that's automated but built-in delays where an email is sent to the customer with a different response depending upon the rating that they've given which is a simple thank you very much you know we really appreciate your business and your feedback and you know whatever message it is you want down to you know really appreciate your business thank you for your feedback we apologize that things didn't go as as we would expect you know we will contact you in the next 24 hours to deal with it lots of different ways of responding to the customer and importantly keeping them engaged and making them feel that you care it's really really important and not something to be overlooked too many programs customer experience programs fail in this point as well as then taking action and dealing with a customer complaint also very important so that's what we call by closing the loop closing the loop so acknowledging the responses you've been given and then also taking the appropriate action at the right time and letting the customers know that this is being worked on yeah absolutely because also just to give you a stat on that around about 50 of customers or respondents do not believe that their feedback goes to anybody that can actually make a difference you know what i actually feel that way about some of my service providers like my telco or my internet company i just feel like i'm just a figure to them i'm just one of the millions of people they serve and i don't know if my particular comment means anything to them yeah you're right well well i think in that particular case so so you're absolutely right so if you're dealing with a bank or a telco that has you know millions of customers in some cases i understand that it can be quite difficult for them to deal with individual cases and they're using the feedback as an aggregated response to understand you know kind of get a gauge on on cosmeric's experience and and where things are failing but in most businesses in ninety percent of businesses we're not that big and we do have the ability to deal with individual customer issues and if you can you should and we'll get on to that in a bit as well in terms of why you should but it really is important it can have a major impact on your business both negatively and positively depending on how you deal with it yes you're right well why don't we talk about that now normally we'd sort of start with the y and then zoom into the how but we flipped we flipped the program on its head today we've started with the techniques and the hows and what you need to get involved but let's zoom out for a second and think about the bigger picture you know why do we need customer feedback yeah the reality is we have choices as as customers whether we're b2b customers or b2c customers if we're looking for a you know an i.t company to fix our our computing equipment in the office or accountants or lawyers or marketing agencies or if we're a consumer looking to to get our car fixed or a haircut or or a plumber to come to our house we have untold choices about where we can get our services and our products from the reality is most of these people do pretty much the same thing a plumber does the same thing their pricing is pretty much the same we now make decisions based on the service levels we receive the experience we have with companies it's really important to know how we service our customers and the experience they have and again we'll come on to this in a moment in terms of you know voice of the customer uh the word of mouth importance the online reviews and social media the the issue is is that customers as customers we do not complain uh we actually just vote with our fee we have a bad experience we go somewhere else next time we don't bother complaining on the whole 86 percent of consumers do not complain they just go elsewhere so we do have a bit of an attitude here in australia especially where you know she'll be right or or customers my customers are happy because they're not complaining we just don't know they're unhappy so it's really important to proactively seek customer feedback and not rely on people coming to you so that's why we need a customer feedback or one of the key reasons why we need a feedback program in place that's a really good point and i think for the first time today i'm feeling like part of the majority here because i definitely identify with that 86 i don't it's similar to what i was just talking about a minute ago but i don't feel like my feedback would count for much at least for the big companies that have millions of customers so again i'll just work with my feet um one question i've got relating to the current coronavirus situation and how everything is changing and businesses organizations government departments individuals we're all moving into a time where things are uncertain and there's so much change afoot normally we talk about the importance of customer feedback in terms of being able to provide insights for business direction or for organizational decision making what's your take on this whole situation in that neither customers nor the business really know what's happening and it's uncharted waters for everybody yeah it's it's a really good question of course and and you know we're all kind of learning through this process and we talk a little bit about some case studies later on specifically around what these uh challenges we're facing today can mean to it to our program um in fact i can address those now daniel if you if you'd like me to but i think the importance with with customer feedback is that yeah quite often it's these kind of relational transactional things and and our business is fairly stable in in terms of we do the same thing every day day in day out um today that's different uh and you know as businesses we're all having to change and adapt um and there's there's some really good case studies that i can share that that we know of where the business has had to adapt his customer feedback program accordingly and and and why it's so important and i think there's some you know even if you think about red back obviously you know the organization that you work for and that's putting on this event today is a great example of that where a very good business very happy customers uh you know you you proactively seek feedback from customers but in the time of covid19 you're one of the very fortunate companies that's that's experience unprecedented growth now that is a great position to be in and a lot better position in many organizations right now but clearly that comes with significant challenges and hopefully you won't mind me come coming with significant growth means that you're not equipped properly in terms of manpower or person power you know technology constraints and really stretching the business to a limit in a number of different ways so ensuring that you're continually getting customer feedback is critical at this point in time because yeah great the financials may be looking very very positive but that could be a short-lived uh experience if the customers are finding it difficult because they're not getting the level of service or there's technology you know issues with their confidence and video calls so it's really really important for you to be more proactive in that process i am conscious of time but you know another great example is retail so a lot of retail stores are closing now but a lot of moving their business to more online focus of course you know contactless delivery challenges with that you know the online experience is nowhere near as exciting and interactive for customers but some of the other challenges are um now some of that process is out of our control we're relying on third-party logistics companies for instance you know we're using a food delivery companies for restaurants and there's issues around who's responsible for late delivery the food's arriving cold you know is it the restaurant is it the the delivery organization so so where things start to get a little bit out of your control it's even more important to continue feedback and ask things in a different way and maybe adapt your questions somewhat differently and the third example that i wanted to share which is another great example is gymnasiums so the fitness industry generally is struggling of course and government legislation has meant they've had to close their doors but for some gymnasiums they've adapted very quickly and very cleverly in that they're doing things a bit differently so they're now live streaming classes they're doing you know online uh personal training they're having to communicate with their members in a very different way again not ideal for a lot of their members who are paying a lot of money for these memberships every month but it's really important for the gymnasiums in this case to ensure that they're continually checking in with their customers to make sure this is actually fulfilling their needs and that their experience is positive because again you know if it's not they'll just end up canceling their membership and that has a massive financial impact on businesses so it's it's it's not necessarily about uh you know certainly in most cases absolutely not stopping the program at all but adapting it to the changing times and making sure you're covering different parts of the business which you might not have been doing before so hopefully that gives some examples of how you know feedback is really important in these challenging times yeah absolutely so the takeaway there is to take your customers with you on this unknown journey that's the main that's the takeaway that i'm hearing from you on this one that's really weird okay so we've got about five minutes left on the program so being conscious of time let's go to q a we've got a couple of questions that are coming through and of course a quick reminder for everybody joining us online please you can join the conversation ask a question to terry it's the dark blue hand icon at the top of your screen and get it submitted and it'll come through on this secondary screen i've got first question comes from jerry and jerry's asking how do you deal with negative customer feedback um really good question jerry and um yeah every company is a little bit different in this of course and their abilities to do it you know from from someone that is in the industry it's easy for me to say that you should be dealing with with negative customer feedback and not just sweeping it under the carpet of course and it does come down to the fact that negative feedback isn't just going to affect that one customer in terms of their likelihood to to use the company again is that we know that on average one unhappy customer tells 15 other people about their negative experience whether they're telling people in you know friends and family through word of mouth or jumping onto online review platforms and social media platforms but but dealing with the customer feedback uh negative customer feedback to bring that customer back in line and the repeat customer again is is actually really important and and let me try and put that into some quantitative figures on average we see that uh companies on the whole have around about 20 of unhappy customers that's on average every industry is different of course so if if we can recover and make a quarter of those people happy again just multiply that and so to multiply your number of customers let's say 20 of those unhappy we're going to recover 5 which is a very conservative number by the way and you know you should be looking for more but just multiply that amount so your average sale price by the five percent of customers that you can recover and on the whole that normally means quite a large amount of money so you know just responding to those and dealing with those in a timely manner may absolutely create more work may absolutely incur some more costs internally in terms of having the personnel to do that but it will on the whole pay for itself many times over and that's just in terms of recovery of customers not the impact the positive impact it has on online reviews and word of mouth because that customer is more likely to use you again more likely to pay more for your service more likely to leave a positive review which by the way in terms of monetary value a one-star improvement in online ratings represents between five to ten percent revenue improvement so significant numbers if we're dealing with customer feedback properly makes perfect business sense to me actually thank you for that question jerry a really good one your next question comes from mike and mike is asking how do you combat feedback fatigue really good question as well mike and and you know it is important to not to over survey your customers the incentive helps with that by the way and we talked a little bit about that earlier on of course so incentivizing people to to respond nothing frustrates me more than and you know i hate using brands in fact i won't even mention the brand but you know i fly a little bit on queensland based and i fly quite quite a bit and there's a particular airline i use quite often where i get a survey every time i fly now that might be twice a day or once every two days or whatever it might be but um there's nothing more frustrating than getting a 20-minute feedback survey uh you know twice a day or every other day it's infuriating so there are controls that are in place um that prevent that happening so exclusion periods as we call it you know only provide people one survey a month for instance depending on the industry you're in make sure you incentivize them keep it really short and engaging that prevents survey fatigue yeah yeah i'm just thinking i'm getting fatigued thinking about that situation that you were in i would not like that to happen to me at all thank you for that question mike probably got time for one last question this one's from mitchell we have a customer feedback program but we've been asked to review costs in this climate how can i convince management to keep it that's a good one yeah it's a very good question and sort of touched on this a little bit earlier on um completely understand and all businesses are obviously reviewing their cost structure right now rightly so as i mentioned earlier on a customer feedback program that's implemented well and working well will pay for itself many times over this shouldn't be considered a cost in the business it's an investment to the business i know that sounds very salesy and i do apologize but it's the reality there's a reason that the big companies all have these programs in place enormous value to it i've mentioned you know the roi in terms of customer recovery the roi in terms of improving online reputation through reviews etc um i completely understand if you're a restaurant and you've closed and you don't have any customers you've got to review those costs and turn the service off maybe but for a lot of businesses where we need to carry on and try and keep business as usual for our customers it's even more critical that we keep our customer experience programs going because when we get through the other end of this we're all going to be scrabbling for our customers and building our business again and it's really important that we've got a foot up through understanding what you know our customers feel about us yes thank you very much great question mitchell thanks for that now that does bring us to the end of the show today because we've hit the time limit thank you very much for your insights today terry terry terry wiley from jago thanks for being with us absolute pleasure i've enjoyed every minute of it really appreciate it thank you guys yes i'm sure everybody has gotten heaps in terms of insights as well and of course before you go we'll be redirecting you to a survey page uh we practice what we preach here of course so plenty back survey of course yes fancy that please be so kind as to give a thought a comment on your way out we'd love to hear from you don't be afraid give us your feedback and of course thank you once again for joining us today from across this beautiful country of ours please wherever you are stay safe look after everybody and we'll catch you on the next episode of the redback business skills show and until then it's goodbye from now