Crypto Masterclass: Everything You Need to Know About CRYPTO From The Worlds Leading Experts
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The podcast argues that Bitcoin represents a paradigm shift in human history, marking the first instance where engineering principles—specifically thermodynamics and mathematics—are applied to economics through code rather than physical scarcity or government decree. The speaker posits that technology is an irreversible one-way street; just as the internet grew exponentially from 1990 to 2000 at a rate of 63% annually, cryptocurrency adoption has accelerated even further, reaching 140 million users by 2021 and growing at 113% per year. This exponential growth suggests that Bitcoin could reach one billion users globally by 2024. The core thesis is that while fiat currencies are inflationary tools used to devalue savings due to government debt, Bitcoin offers "sound money" with a hard cap of 21 million units, ensuring scarcity and protecting purchasing power against the inevitable debasement caused by central banks printing more currency. The discussion extends beyond simple monetary assets to include Ethereum as a programmable platform for decentralized finance (DeFi) and Non-Fungible Tokens (NFTs), which digitize art, real estate, and other forms of value storage. The speaker highlights that tokenization allows anyone to own fractions of high-value assets like Manhattan apartments or rare artwork, democratizing wealth accumulation previously reserved for the ultra-rich. A significant portion of the conversation addresses environmental concerns regarding Bitcoin's energy consumption; however, the transcript counters these claims by explaining how mining operations recycle stranded and wasted renewable energy—such as hydroelectric power from dams that cannot be fully utilized due to demand fluctuations or geothermal sources in remote locations like Iceland. By acting as a massive battery for excess electricity, particularly during off-peak hours when air conditioning is not running, Bitcoin helps stabilize the grid and drives down global energy costs while utilizing sustainable resources that would otherwise go unused. Despite its rapid adoption, the cryptocurrency market faces skepticism regarding volatility and government regulation, which the speaker addresses by advocating for a long-term perspective of four years or more to filter out short-term noise. The narrative emphasizes personal responsibility in finance, noting statistics such as 80% of millionaires inheriting nothing and many achieving wealth without ever earning six figures annually. To navigate market fluctuations, the recommended strategy is dollar-cost averaging rather than attempting to time the market, a method illustrated by an anecdote about helping family members invest consistently despite price drops. The speaker also shares his personal conviction in holding 100% of his liquid net worth in crypto because he has no leverage and relies on cash flow from multiple income streams, viewing real estate as lifestyle rather than investment capital to avoid being forced into bad deals during downturns. Ultimately, the conversation concludes that Bitcoin is not merely a currency but an open permissionless protocol essential for securing property rights globally against hostile regimes or economic collapse. The speaker envisions a future multi-currency world where digital dollars, euros, and Bitcoins coexist with zero switching costs between them, allowing individuals to store value in assets like Bitcoin while transacting locally as needed. This evolution mirrors the historical shift from gold standards to fiat money but offers a solution that cannot be arbitrarily inflated or seized by governments. The transcript ends on an optimistic note about humanity's inevitable integration into digital systems and the moral imperative for billions of people to secure their financial future through this new, decentralized infrastructure before it becomes too late to adopt.
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I could talk to somebody all day long
and they could tell me Bitcoins not
valuable. It's a trillion-dollar asset,
tens of millions of people around the
world holding it, transaction volume and
some of the card networks.
I believe it to be true that technology
is a one-way street, that we will never
go backwards.
Well, Bitcoin is the strongest asset the
human race has ever invented. It's like
gold with none of the defects of gold.
And then suddenly NFTs come. And
suddenly your mind is completely blown.
It's the entire exchange, transfer, and
storage of value for the internet.
The internet
from 1990 to 2000 grew at 63% a year.
That was the fastest adoption of any
technology in all recorded history.
Prior to that, mobile phones was the
other one.
But what happens is the internet
technology and the mobile phones
technology allows for these
networks to be built.
And once that network is in place, it's
faster to build the next next network.
So, in India, for example, they've just
basically given out free data to every
mobile phone in India. So, guess what?
Uh data data usage is the highest in the
world. And so, their internet scaling
becomes faster. So, this So, the
internet was huge, as we all know, and
it remains huge. So, at 63% a year, it
then flattened out over time as more and
more people got adopted. So, at 1997,
it was growing at 63% a year and there
was 140 million users of the internet.
In 2021, there are 140 million crypto
users.
And it's growing at 113%
a year. Jesus.
Double the speed. Now, this is where
humans struggle.
Linear numbers and exponential numbers.
Because it's exponential,
it means that growing at 113% a year,
we're going to go from 140 million
people to a billion people by 2024.
I mean, so so
So, when you go back
and what you how are you introduced to
all of this? So, if you know
that something is being adopted at this
speed and it's a network of money
at its core
and you combine infinitesimal fraction
of it, so everybody can buy 10% of their
net worth.
Then everybody who takes this
opportunity will probably have the
biggest opportunity
in history.
Yeah, sure the meme stocks,
cryptocurrencies, it's easy to mock and
make fun of these young people, but
these young people are interested in
understanding how does the market work?
How does finances work? How does
investing work? And so, you know, if you
go back to that data, right? We talked
about 45% of people have no investable
assets. The two stats that just blew me
away when I started to look at this was
uh 80% of millionaires in the United
States inherited $0.
So, the narrative is
everyone inherits wealth and it's just
passed down. Well, 80% of Americans
inherited nothing. 20% inherited
something, 80% nothing. The second one
is that 33% of
millionaires in America never made more
than $100,000 in a single year.
So, you start to ask yourself, well, how
does it that somebody that doesn't make
six figures a year become a millionaire?
Well, they have to be disciplined and
understand personal finance. And so, it
is possible to do it. It's not everyone,
it's hard, right? It's not the
uh the easiest thing to do, but it can
be done. And so, as you start to
understand like, okay
the education is a huge piece of this.
So, you can go to Vegas, lose all of
your money and there's no regulation.
But, if you want to invest in a group of
startups or a single startup, it's
deemed too risky by somebody.
And a lot of that is a power grab by
Wall Street. Cuz what does that mean? It
means you can't do it, you have to give
it to somebody else.
Um and they can pool the money.
So then you're not taking specific
risks.
And what that means is somebody on Wall
Street gets rich at your
on your behalf.
Because you're now paying them fees that
you didn't have to pay.
That's the beauty of Bitcoin. You're
basically a VC investor in the future of
money,
not Bitcoin, Ethereum even, even better.
You've got You're a VC investor in the
future platform of the internet of
value.
And you're paying nobody any fees. I
believe it to be true that technology is
a one-way street, that we will never go
backwards. We will never unwind the
internet. We will never be a less
digital creature. We will only be more.
And things like Neuralink are going to
become real. And I actually and and I
don't want to lose people on this. I
think in a
very far distant future, so this is not
in the next 20 or 30 years, you know,
maybe this is 100 years, maybe it's 300,
but there are people already that have
cochlear implants that give them back
hearing. We're working on um implants
into the eye that give people back
vision. So, it'll start with correcting
things, but we will ultimately as
ourselves become really
um
tied physically to technology. So,
I believe that everything will
ultimately get digitized. So, what we're
living through right now is a really
fascinating moment where art is now
being digitized, money is being
digitized, and those two I live at the
intersection of art collectibles and
money. And and watching those go
digitized and watching for anybody that
wonders if this if the human mind is
just ever going to be into these things
in the way that they are physical
things, I will just say this, that uh in
August of 2021,
OpenSea did $3 billion in revenue on
purely digital goods, digital art,
digital collectibles, all of it. And
that blew them past Etsy at like day 16
of the month or something. They went
past I mean just absolutely insane to
see how much money is pouring into the
system. I think this is with only
200,000 wallets. So, 200,000 people
driving $3 billion worth of revenue all
on digital goods that have no physical
tangible thing in in out in the world.
Now, there's utility it's beyond the
scope of what we're saying now. So, okay
my thesis the world's only going
digital. I have all these kind of proof
points around it. Now, one of the things
that's going digital is money.
Bitcoin in particular has a really
fascinating feature which makes it what
you call sound money. And that feature
is programmatically
it can only ever produce 21 million of
these units. Unlike gold which for me
and I don't know if you'll agree with
this, my mind got wrapped around it
immediately when it was like Bitcoin is
digital gold because I understood what
gold was meant to be. I was never going
to carry it around and shave some off to
buy a loaf of bread. Like it's a thing
that I store somewhere else that we all
agree and yes, it only has value in that
we agreed it has value.
It only can be created when stars
explode and that rains down on the
planet and gets embedded into you know
the bedrock of you know, the earth and
so we have to go and dig it out. But we
dig it out at a rate roughly 2% a year
as economic incentives go up, we dig out
more. And so there is some big question
around well, if there was enough
incentive could you devalue that more by
discovering that there are actually
harder to reach
deposits of gold. Okay, so I get that
it's capped. There's only 21 million
units. Therefore, as long as we all
agree that that thing has value, it
becomes sound money as you say because
there can never be any more of it.
Look, I think the big thing that
happened with regard to Bitcoin this
year is that Bitcoin is the first is the
first point in human history where
engineering impinged on economics.
Up until this point people didn't really
embrace the idea of energy theory and
engineering theory and math and sciences
as being integral to the way that a
monetary asset function.
You know, it used to be money was, you
know, seashells and tokens and then and
then we have this
general you know, we have gold and we
have coins and then we have general
agreements and
and uh
and the like and Bitcoin was the first
time when we created um
a digital monetary asset, a a pure a a
pure digital token on a pure digital
network
that uh that actually uh
respects the laws of conservation of
energy.
You know, I say it's it's sound money
but that's the same as thermodynamically
sound money, which is conservation of
energy, which means mathematically
proper. Do you mind saying again the
cost of loaf of bread compared to dollar
versus Bitcoin?
I denominate my life in dollars and
let's say I buy a loaf of bread today
and it's $2. Five or 10 years from now,
that loaf of bread may cost me three,
four, five dollars, depending on the
rate of inflation.
If I denominate my life in Bitcoin and
today, let's say that it cost me one
Bitcoin for a loaf of bread, in the
future, it will cost me less than one
Bitcoin. So, it will actually become
cheaper for me to buy because every
asset, when you think of price,
it's denominated in a currency. So, a
stock, right? When I when I ask you,
"What is Amazon stock price?" you're
telling me one Amazon share over how
many US dollars. And that's how we get
to the actual value. And so, when you
start to think about that,
look at the stock market. The stock
market from 1971 to today is up and to
the right. So, perfect 45-degree angle.
I know you're about to say. When you
denominate it in gold, it's down. That's
since 1971. If you denominate it in
Bitcoin since 2009
2010, it has crashed aggressively.
Bitcoin has been the best performing
asset, but that's because it's
denominated in dollars. And so
ultimately what we're watching is we're
watching an entire generation of people
wake up to this fiat currency kind of
fiasco.
And there's a famous I think it's Henry
Ford quote where he said, you know, if
people understood how money worked,
there would be riots in the street
before morning.
If you sign up for technology, I think
you got to have this model in your head
that you're a snake that's shedding its
skin
every 3 4 years.
Or I mean a really good model in nature
for growth under pressure is a chambered
nautilus.
And a chambered nautilus is this
creature that grows under under deep sea
pressure and it and it builds a shell.
And of course the shape of the chambered
nautilus is the spiral because the
creature is rebuilding the next shell to
be twice as big
as the last shell and turning in on
itself and is using its previous work as
the structure to support the next piece
of work. And so it if you look at the at
the design of a chambered nautilus, what
you see is
is nature's solution for growth under
pressure.
And then you start saying okay, but
that's Bitcoin and then what's this
Ethereum business?
And then you start realizing
decentralized finance and you're like
it's kind of a finance thing, but that's
kind of cool cuz I can get yields now,
you know, I can get instead of getting
zero in my bank account for my hard
savings, I can now get 6% a year. Wow,
that's a difference. It's like going
back 25 years in time.
And then suddenly NFTs come
and community tokens
and suddenly your mind is completely
blown that this is not just money. It's
the entire exchange, transfer, and
storage of value
for the internet.
Whole business models are about to
change massively because of what this
technology
unlocks. And then once you get that your
head around that, you're like, "Oh god,
I can't even hold this in my mind any
longer. It's so big."
Um and that it's not just buy some
Bitcoin, I'm going to make some money
over time.
You know, it's actually an entirely
parallel financial system
and business structure for the world.
And it's being adopted faster than
anything we can ever imagine. What is it
that makes Bitcoin
interesting enough that so many smart
people see this as ultra-sound money,
and what does ultra-sound money mean? As
you can probably see, I'm obsessed with
the future of crypto and NFTs, and I
want to make sure you are prepared to
understand and enjoy this new digital
revolution.
To help with that, I've launched a new
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and I hope to see you in there. The
world has a history of money
whether it's backed by gold or not
where government
gets themselves excessively into debt
and they devalue the money.
So, the Romans used to clip the edge off
the coins, so there was less gold in
each coin.
And eventually people would lose faith
in the coins cuz they'd blend them with
silver and then blend them with copper,
and you know, the coins were worthless
cuz that was supposed to be worth the
value of the of the denarii in Roman
times.
But governments can't help themselves.
Humans, we're just humans, right? Humans
are fundamentally flawed creatures and
we always will be.
So then we have the gold standards, you
know, the US and the UK are on gold
standards, World War
I, World War II, we all have to leave it
because we've got too much in debt
again.
We've overly financialized yet again cuz
humans love leverage above all things.
It's kind of sex and leverage are the
two things that drive humans for some
reason.
Then
we adopt a new system which has been
around before but it keeps getting
abandoned called fiat money. Fiat money
is money not backed by anything.
It's backed by the promise of the
central bank paying it. So that's the
dollar bill that we all are familiar
with and every country in the world now
adopted fiat currency.
But
as with everything
if you're really thirsty and I gave you
a bottle of water or sold it to you
you'd probably pay me 10 times too much
for that bottle of water.
If I give you a million bottles of
water, they're worth precisely zero to
you.
So scarcity has value and that's arts,
that's cars, that's almost anything.
Um humans value scarcity. For whatever
reason we do.
Um and so
if you're printing too much money
you're creating less scarcity. So yes,
there's money everywhere.
But the money has less value.
So once you understand that
you say, "Well, what does it mean? The
dollar hasn't collapsed. It's kind of
where it was versus the euro in the last
5 years or whatever it is."
And then you say, "Huh."
But my $50,000 salary
now can buy me much less shares in
Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft. In
fact
units of the S&P 500, right? I suddenly
can't buy as much. Since 2008, it's a
fraction. I can buy like
a third of what I could.
Same with real estate, same with gold.
And then you're like, "Huh,
assets have suddenly got expensive."
They haven't.
The value of your savings has gone down
or your money.
So, you can't afford to buy assets. What
is an asset? An asset is deferred
consumption from the future.
I buy a house,
I sell it in the future, I get to
retire. Whatever the the the things are,
right? We don't buy the S&P because we
want to hang it up in our wall, we buy
it because we want to sell it at a
future date to realize money.
So, that means our future selves are now
poorer. That's essentially what this
means. That's what currency debasement
is.
So, Bitcoin comes along in 2008 in the
middle of the crisis. It's kind of like
it was perfectly prepared for this and
said,
Satoshi goes, "Hey, look at this.
I can create an algorithm
that only creates so much of this thing,
the Bitcoin,
and it can never vary,
ever.
So, therefore, this is scarcity that
humans can't [ __ ] around with.
Now, humans have this propensity to [ __ ]
around with scarcity because they're
economically incentivized to do so.
Here, they can't.
So, then they become economically
incentivized to own this asset
because it's scarce and it cannot be
changed because it has this consistent
supply curve and a limited number.
So, Bitcoin becomes this great store of
value.
And it would look like gold cuz gold's a
good store of value. It's worked for
thousands of years. But, Bitcoin has
this other thing to it. It's a network,
which gold isn't,
and it's technology, which gold isn't.
So, we have use cases and the benefits
of building a network. So, suddenly it
goes up exponentially in price.
Roll on to 2015
and suddenly somebody is looking at the
blockchain
and they start saying
imagine if these bits on the blockchain
which is where you record the ownership
of something in Bitcoin it's Bitcoin
itself.
What happens if we could put contract in
there?
Because humans live off contracts. You
know, everything is basically a contract
in in our legal terms.
And that was the rise of Ethereum. It
became a platform where you could
programmatically change the blockchain.
Not the attributes of the blockchain,
you couldn't remove anything off that
ledger, but you could change the little
holding buckets and say well it can look
like this, it could look like that, it
can adopt to this.
And those things were verifiable as
well, so they couldn't change.
So this created Ethereum which became
the platform. So if you think of Bitcoin
as the store of value, this very
pristine beautiful thing
then you think of Ethereum as also a
very beautiful thing, but it's a much
broader application
because it's like programmable money.
Okay, so what's Bitcoin? Well, Bitcoin
is the strongest asset the human race
has ever invented. It's like gold with
none of the defects of gold. So define
what the defects are. Why why is it the
greatest
monetary invention?
So I buy a million dollars of gold.
Okay, um
if the price goes up, the gold miners
first of all, the gold miners are going
to create more gold and dump it on the
market.
If I could eliminate all gold mining
forever, if I could wave a magic wand
and make it impossible to mine any more
gold, my million dollars of gold will
hold its value better because it'll be
scarce.
But gold miners are inflating the value
of the the supply of gold by at least 2%
a year or so.
And then if the price doubles again,
investors will invest in more gold
miners and they'll create more capacity
to mine gold. So, you'll create capacity
to mine gold, you'll mine the gold,
you'll crank up the rate at which the
gold mines function.
After that, people with gold jewelry
will melt their jewelry down, convert to
gold bullion, and sell it, right? If if
the price of gold went up by a factor of
20, you would be like converting all
your gold stuff into gold bullion cuz it
seems like a good idea.
They call it scrap gold, right?
And then after that, um bankers will
issue gold warrants and gold and gold
paper and gold derivatives, and they'll
sell them short without the gold because
they can speculate in it, and they don't
have to have a one-for-one coverage of
gold to the gold derivatives.
And so, that's called hypothecation and
rehypothecation.
Okay? If it keeps going up, the
governments holding gold will start to
sell some of their gold to manipulate
the price down.
Right? And And all of these And if it
And ultimately, if it goes up enough,
someone will club you over the head and
take your gold, or a hostile regime will
take your gold, or a politician will
pass a law taxing your gold.
Right? There's a There's a lot of ways
you lose gold because it's physical.
How do you cure the problem?
Right? I mean, uh
Here's how you cure the problem. You
make it impossible to mine any more
gold, and then you make it possible to
take custody of your gold personally off
of the exchange or off of the bank. So,
that way the bank can't hypothecate it
or rehypothecate it, miners can't
inflate it, investors can't create any
more gold miners. And then you make it
possible to move it from here to
Switzerland or Singapore in an hour for
or for a nickel.
And that way, if you don't like your
bank or don't trust your bank, if the
state of New York passes a law taxing
it, you move it to the state of Wyoming.
You know, if the government passes a law
taxing, you know, the the ownership of
uh
in California, you can't move the land
out of California, can't you?
If you have a million dollars of gold in
a bank in in a vault in New York City,
you know, there's only a couple places
you can move it. You can move it to
London if you have 6 months.
Okay, so you're going to be subject to
the law of London or the law of of New
York. Can you actually move to your
favorite island or you know, can you
move to the Cayman Islands and bury your
gold underneath your hut in the Cayman
Islands and be safe about it?
Not likely.
Can't even get it through the airport.
Right? So So the problem with other
properties and gold is the simplest
example, but the problem the the
challenge or the analogy holds with any
property.
I give you a bunch of money and I tell
you you want to keep it and give it to
your grandchild.
Do you buy a building in Manhattan? Do
you buy a ranch in California? Do you
buy a stack of gold bars? Do you buy
shares in a company headquartered in San
Francisco?
Do you buy bonds issued by a government
or company? Or do you buy Bitcoin?
And you can you can see the problem of
course is
the the debt is devaluing rapidly.
The land in California can be taxed and
is not movable.
You know,
uh the building in New York's not going
anywhere.
It might be valuable to a rich person
that lives in New York. What about a
rich person that lives in Beijing? Do
they want your building in New York?
How are you going to hide your building,
right? Buildings get property taxed.
There's a very famous story about, you
know, a bunch of luxury, you know,
yachts sitting in Sardinian port and the
locals decided that that that it wasn't
fair
that all these uh people were rich
people are sitting on their yachts in
the port spending all this money, but
they weren't paying enough taxes. Now,
they're putting millions and millions of
euros into the economy,
but they came up with the idea that they
were going to put a tax on the yacht on
the value of the yacht.
And so, they you know, they passed a
yacht tax that would have cost people
millions or tens of millions of euros if
they stayed in the that port.
And uh everything was happy and uh all
the restaurateurs and the hoteliers and
and and the entertainment people in the
port, they were all happy making tons of
money off the yachts until the day
before the tax went into place, and the
morning that the tax went into place,
the port was empty and the economy died.
Everybody left.
Cuz yachts are floating capital. It just
moves. It's floating property, right?
So, it's it's a very visible example,
right? Why it's not that smart to put a
uh an an unfair tax or an extreme tax on
a yacht if people can float the yacht to
the next port, you know, 100 mi to the
left. So,
one would be discouraged
from taxing stuff that floats.
On the other hand, taxing a building
that's buried, you know, 100 ft down in
the bedrock, that's easier. You can't
move the building. So,
Bitcoin represents the apex property
rights of the human race.
Like I'm not Mind you, I'm not disputing
the ability or or the you know,
legitimacy of a government to pass a
tax. At the end of the day, they can tax
your gold, they can tax your stocks,
your bonds, your building, yourself,
your income, whatever they want. But the
point really is
you're a lot more likely to tax the
stuff that you walk past,
you know, every day on the way to work,
and you're a lot a- and uh legitimately,
you can move yourself and you can move
your property if it's crypto
to another jurisdiction, but you can't
legitimately move a ranch in California.
So, your property rights are stronger
and the value of the property is higher.
Right, you have a valuable thing in
Manhattan. It's interesting to other
wealthy people in Manhattan, but when
you have Bitcoin, it's interesting to
wealthy people everywhere on Earth.
Right, it's you can liquidate a billion
dollars of Bitcoin on the weekend in any
currency
you know, any any time. Try liquidating
a billion dollar building.
Right, that's three-year process, right?
So, it's liquid, it's fungible, it's
desirable,
and so that what that's what makes the
asset valuable, and it's very it's the
it's the most difficult thing to impair.
Are there stats around how much sort of
nefarious stuff is going on with Bitcoin
versus US dollar? The stats that I know
off the top of my head is over two
trillion dollars of uh fiat currency are
just money laundering every year used
for illicit purposes.
Oh.
Which is about the size of the entire
crypto industry, not just Bitcoin, but
the entire crypto industry, right? Uh
so, it's a very big number.
Um some of that is uh
simple things like uh terrorist
financing and then you're you know,
literally bringing a a bag of cash or
whatever, but a lot of it also is uh
major banks who end up being caught up
in money laundering situations, etc. And
I'm always careful. I think it's very
easy to kind of point your finger at
banks and say, you know, these are all
bad people, whatever. Uh I tend to think
of it more as uh folks with good
intentions. They're trying to do the
best that they can. Um are there
situations where they definitely know
they're doing it? Of course.
But if you had to monitor millions of
transactions a day going through your
bank,
they'd do a better job than I would.
Right. Right. So, there's there's again
nuance there.
Um so so, that's the fiat system and
then uh in the Bitcoin world, so not all
crypto but in Bitcoin specifically, the
latest stats that I've seen is there's a
report out that says 0.4%
so less than half a percent of all
transactions are used for illicit or
nefarious purposes.
And then there was also a former CIA
director who came out and basically
published a whole report. I don't
remember what exact number he came up
but it's pretty much in line, you know,
definitely less than 1%.
And so
if you talk to law enforcement, they say
all the time. They're like, if somebody
commits a crime we want their fingers on
a keyboard.
Why? There's a digital trail. It's much
easier to track them. It's much easier
to figure this stuff out. And so I think
what we've seen is just criminals
in the early days
2009, 10, 11, 12, even maybe 13, 14.
Oh, there's a pseudonymous currency that
no one knows about. Like I'm going to go
do all this crazy stuff with it.
Well, now that we're in 2021, people
realize, oh wait a minute. I just used
this public, you know, ledger. That
probably wasn't the smartest idea.
Um, but I think that it's important
actually that the criminals and bad
actors adopted it first because that is
the adoption cycle that every great
technology takes. Whether it's mobile
phones, beepers, the internet, etc.
There's a constant cat and mouse game
between law enforcement and bad actors.
And so what are bad actors constantly
doing? They're looking for new
innovative ways to use technology to get
away from or obscure law enforcement
from catching them.
And so criminals are actually usually
the first adopters of new technology.
Which again doesn't make people feel
good but if you go back and you look it
it's a historical pattern.
And so the fact that they were first and
then we got kind of the first adopters
from a technology standpoint and then we
started to get more of the mainstream
and now it's estimated that more than
100 million people globally use this
stuff.
It's kind of like goes back to your
is that high already? Oh, yeah. I mean
Coinbase alone,
I think they report now that they've got
if I remember the number correctly it's
like 58 million you users. Just one
company and they're not even the biggest
exchange, right?
Um in the month of July,
uh 1.2 million new users came onto the
Bitcoin blockchain. So, not Coinbase,
not any exchange or wallet, the actual
blockchain itself. You can see on chain
new entities.
Uh and 1.2 million new entities came
online, which is the fastest it's ever
grown in a single month.
And so, what you have is you have a
fixed supply asset
that now you've got the most number of
entities ever joining in a month.
Of course, the price goes up, right?
Like fixed supply asset demand goes up,
unless you think that supply demand
economics are invalidated, you know,
that the price has to move to
accommodate everyone.
And so, it's just
um
a
just a fascinating asset that I think
ultimately
um
those that embrace it early will end up
benefiting from. And and a lot of times
as I kind of go down this path talking
about the criminal behavior and you and
you talk about the public ledger, you
talk about the adoption,
people get uneasy. They don't like
change, right? Humans hate change.
But just like the internet, right?
Imagine if we had sat here in the United
States and we had said,
"This internet thing is kind of crazy.
It's a decentralized, open thing. Anyone
that has an internet connection can kind
of join and and participate and get
information
and do all this stuff.
You know what?
I don't think the US should participate.
You know why?
China. China's going to benefit. And
North Korea is going to use the
internet, too. And Iran, those bad
people, they're going to use the
internet as well. So, the US, we're
going to sit this one out."
Well, people did do that. North Korea
did that, and North Korea would suck to
live in.
Right? It's just they cut their people
off from a very important technology.
And so, when you think about that from a
open payment system, right?
The idea of an open payment system is so
foreign to us because of the system that
we live in,
but anyone in the world can plug into
this open system and send value to
anyone else without asking permission.
If we sit here and we say, "You know
what?
We shouldn't participate because there's
some other country or some other
organization that's going to also
benefit from it." We're actually get
likely to be the ones that get hurt the
most by these decisions. Instead, we
should do what we do with the internet.
Internet's going to be a thing. The
United States is going to be a leader in
the internet.
Yes, there's volatility to Bitcoin in
the short term. I've heard you say, "If
you're looking at a number in anything
less than a 4-year increment, it's just
noise." And that once you extend out to
4 years and beyond, suddenly it actually
becomes a a story of, you know, growing,
I think it's like 200% year over year,
um which is, you know, pretty thrilling.
Um how far does when you think about
this being sort of the apex
um property,
how much goes into just the the fact
that it's taking sunlight and turning it
into something that's cryptographically
protected, and how much of that stance
is that this evens the playing field?
You know, I I think of Bitcoin as like
that shining city in cyberspace
where a billions of people will
eventually want to live.
Right? Instead of moving from Europe to
America or moving from the old world to
the new world or whatever or moving from
the planet to cyberspace. We can't move
to outer space yet. I can't get a
billion people off the planet and settle
on a better Earth, but I can move a
billion people to cyberspace.
Bitcoin is property in cyberspace.
It's 21 million city blocks in cyber
Manhattan.
Um
the people that move there first,
right, get to buy the land cheapest.
And then event- you know, how many
people will eventually want to live
there?
Well, unlike Manhattan, where there's a
limit, there's really no limit. Why
wouldn't everybody want to live there?
Right? I mean,
I don't know that there won't be other
cities in cyberspace that that might
meet other needs. I mean, I suppose if
the Chinese,
you know, made it illegal to own
Bitcoin, but there was a Chinese
Bitcoin, there might be a Chinese
version of Bitcoin in cyberspace. Kind
of like Alibaba, you know, and Ant and
and WeChat kind of branched off from
Facebook and Google and Amazon.
So, there might be some other digital
dominant monetary networks or dominant
monetary networks. But But Bitcoin is
the greatest
the greatest um monetary network that
the human human race has ever developed,
and it's certainly the dominant one
right now, and it looks like it's going
to be continue to be the dominant one
for as long as we live.
So, um
what makes it uh dominant?
Well, I mean, clearly the the
architecture is uh proof of work, or in
other words, throwing up a wall of
encrypted energy, right? It's all of uh
the crypto hash power that's channeling
energy through the hashing function,
which creates
uh creates the stability and the
security.
And so,
it's based upon the architecture,
but um but ultimately, the appeal of it
is that it's an open permissionless
protocol that everybody on Earth can
engage in.
Anybody can mine it. Anybody can So,
anybody can contribute security to the
network.
And anybody can run their own node, and
anybody can own it, and then any company
uh can plug into it.
And so, there's nothing that open. There
is no You know, there is no monetary
protocol or asset or currency that is so
open
as the Bitcoin asset. And so that's
what's driving its value right now.
It's It's an opportunity for people that
are that have little
that have little to lose and much to
gain. It's It's an opportunity for
everybody though. I mean, the way I
think of it is it's a moral imperative,
a technical imperative, and an economic
imperative.
Morally, it's an imperative cuz it's
it's the best hope for 8 billion people
to secure their property rights. If I
give you a $50 Android phone, you can
carry around in the Android wallet your
property and no bank or no hostile
regime can seize it.
And we've never And that's the best
property right you're ever going to get.
I think it's a technical imperative for
the same reason. You got 8 billion
mobile phones that will all have
property. And so what's more important,
storing your photos and your videos on
your mobile phone or storing all your
money?
All your life worth in your mobile
phone.
I mean, you're worried about losing the
photos you took on your iPhone or you
worried about losing your life savings?
Clearly, it's more valuable. So
So it's a it's a technology imperative
for an Apple and Amazon and Google and
Facebook and companies like Square and
PayPal and Binance and Coinbase are
already extraordinarily successful by
embracing it. You can see that right
now.
And finally, it's an economic imperative
because there's $500 trillion worth of
fiat derivatives, cash and bonds and
stocks and real estate that's valued
based upon cash flows. And all of those
things are being devalued at 1% a month.
Something So we can go back and forth
over what's the rate of currency
expansion, but
you know, it's it's not that hard to see
that this is a $25 to $50 trillion a
year problem for anybody with assets on
Earth.
It's very rare that you find it a
technology that's a solution to every
rich person's problem and every poor
person's problem simultaneously. Rather
than rely on that hierarchical
structure, by creating a network, we
created the strongest computer network
in the world.
In 12 years. And is it strong because
you can't break it? There's no person,
there's no point of failure. I can't go
hack Timmy. Um I can't you know seduce
somebody and like you know get their
keys to something. Is that what makes it
strong? Just that it is There would be
so many people to go after. I I think of
strength of a network in two ways,
specifically around let's say Bitcoin.
Um one is just a pure qualitative
uh metric.
Um or I'm sorry, a qualitative metric
and then one is a quantitative one. The
quantitative one's really easy. How much
hash rate or how much computing power is
actually running this network? And
that's can stop a brute force attack or
anything like that. And so
um the Bitcoin network has more
computing power running it than anything
else, right? It's way bigger than any of
the large computers in the world, etc.
Um so that's a quantitative metric. The
qualitative one I think more uh
structurally, right? So um from a
structure standpoint, if you think about
um other technology networks that have
been shut down, right? Napster's always
like a really easy one.
Peer-to-peer file sharing.
Was a great idea. People were doing it,
obviously. Uh the music industry didn't
like it. How do they shut it down? Well,
you can basically go and find out who's
the CEO of the business, where is the
business, where are their servers, all
this type stuff, and you can go ahead
and you can shut it down.
And so when you remove that hierarchical
structure, and you now have a
decentralized structure, the strength
comes from there is no single point of
failure.
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So, when I started in crypto, I was
like, okay, 1%. I'll I'll get to 1%. I
just don't want to be a fool. It's sort
of schmuck insurance. Then, as I got to
1%, I was like, well, this feels pretty
good. I'm going to go to 2%. And then,
that's where I was about when it started
to fall. And so, I was like, okay, well,
here's my opportunity to buy in. Thesis
is still intact. Why don't we go to 5%?
And so, now I'm like, well, 5% feels
pretty good. I'm thinking about 10%. So,
what is your allocation? Of course, I
know this punchline, but it'll be
interesting for people that don't know.
So, I am
This is going to sound weird when I tell
you, I'm actually risk-averse.
So, I own
a few properties
myself. And I live in them. So, I don't
rent anything out. You know, these are
This is my bank is lifestyle.
So, and I and I like to live in nice
places.
So, that I don't consider consider money
that I'm investing or doing anything
with. That's just buried in lifestyle.
My shares in Real Vision
as an entrepreneur, they could be worth
nothing, they could be worth gazillion.
That's not part of it. So, what really
matters is your
liquid net worth. The money that you've
got available to invest.
And I'm a
100% in crypto.
And I feel like I'm under exposed.
So, maybe I didn't start with enough
cash.
Um that I should you know, I should have
had more in cash, you know, more um
as opposed to in real estate or
whatever.
But,
it's 100% and I feel massively under
exposed. Now, why can I do 100%?
Because I have income. I have numerous
sources of income.
So, I've always got money coming in.
If I lost
well, you're never going to lose 100%
cuz I've got no leverage. So, it could
go down
80% and it'd be back to roughly where I
bought it. So, I'm kind of
safe in this crypto space now. I can't
really lose money.
But, I've got cash flow coming in.
So, even if I did lose it, it's not
going to change my life.
And in fact, cash flow coming in gives
me an ability to buy at lower prices.
So, I'm structurally set up to take
oppor-
take advantage of the biggest
opportunity I've ever seen.
Um and I'm comfortable with that. Now, I
don't know what percentage of my total
net worth it is cuz I don't think of
total net worth as total net worth.
Because those are things that I'm never
going to change. You know, my my my
beach house in El Carmen or I sell it
and buy something else. I'm not going to
invest in something else with it. That
is the answers. Lifestyle is the answer
to everything, right? We don't do
anything else for any other reason, I
don't think or you shouldn't.
To be rich is not is not a future state.
To have the lifestyle that you want is
the future state and that can be
anything. You can live in a shack on a
beach in Nicaragua and be the happiest
man in the world. Go for that.
So, that's what I care about. But,
liquid net worth, yeah, everything and I
feel under invested and desperate to you
know, waiting for the next quarter when
more income comes in to put more in cuz
I feel under invested at all times.
That's how that's how much conviction I
have. I've And I've never done that
before, ever in my entire lifetime have
I ever taken a bet like this. Going back
to investing, I want to lay out for
people that might be new to this.
They're not seasoned investors.
The idea of dollar cost averaging was
extraordinarily comforting to me. Um and
I'd love to go into what it is, why it's
useful, and whether you think that
applies to what's happening in crypto.
So, there's a mythology of investing.
The mythology of investing is hedge fund
manager George Soros
spots the opportunity, gets in at the
right price, makes a fortune.
The reality is
most people have no idea where the price
is going over a short term.
So, what happens is you buy something,
you put all your money in, you've saved
up your 5,000 bucks, you put it all into
Bitcoin, Bitcoin falls 50%, you panic,
you sell it.
You feel terrible, Bitcoin goes back up
again, you felt feel even worse now, you
can scrape together, you know, you've
you've lost, you know, half of your
money now, and then you've you you
you keep compounding these errors,
right? It's called market timing. And
market timing is extraordinarily
difficult, you know. I I do some market
timing
because that's been my job and 30 years.
I've done more than my 10,000 hours, a
lot more than my 10,000 hours. And that
doesn't make me very good at it, either.
I'm not bad at it in long-term
investing. I'm terrible at short-term.
So, what is dollar cost averaging?
Dollar cost averaging is basically what
everybody does with their 401k. The
problem is with 401k's or retirement
funds is nobody cares about them.
You don't know what's in it. You have to
have no ownership. You just put some of
your salary away, and it goes in this
mythical thing that you probably assume
won't be worth as much money as you hope
it is.
That's what that's become.
And you put it in every month.
Why do you do that? Well, because you're
averaging all of the highs and lows over
time because markets tend to do this.
So, you're kind of indifferent. In fact,
you love it when it falls because you're
buying more units
at a lower price because the whole game
is to own as much as you can
at the lowest possible price.
But, if you don't know how to market
time and 99.9%
of people don't and can't and shouldn't,
then you just average in over time and
magic will happen. You just average a
beautiful price over time. And had you
done that in the S&P or anything else,
you make money. Now, what's so lovely
about Bitcoin is it's not a passive
investment like your your retirement
fund
because your retirement fund you can't
access until later. So, you kind of
write it off and you you know,
everybody's heard that it's never going
to be worth as much as it should be
anyway. So, it's become a bit of a pain
as opposed to a something but this you
own.
You live and breathe that volatility.
And you live and breathe those gains
when they happen. And you'll be like
wide-eyed.
I did this to my sister-in-law. Forced
her to do this. I said, "Listen, I'm
going to make it easy for you. Just
going to open a PayPal account. Start
that way."
And she had some savings
um she could take out of another thing.
She had like 5,000 bucks, 10,000 bucks.
And she put it in and we got the timing
relatively right. So, it shot up a lot.
I think she got in about 13,000 in
Bitcoin. Wow.
And it shot up to 17,000. Yeah. And it
shot up a lot. So, she's like, "Wow."
And then it falls a lot and she's
calling me up saying, "What do I do?
Should I sell some?" I'm like, "No.
You keep putting in part of your
paycheck."
And
after all of these falls, these several
falls, she starts to really understand
and when they start falling a lot, she
starts doubling the amount that she
would have normally invested.
And now she's taught herself to invest.
Next thing I hear, "Oh, well, I bought
some Ethereum."
And this is how I'm dealing with that.
So, she's now looking at two different
things and she's now thinking about the
asset allocation. What's going to
outperform? Ethereum is bigger. She knew
nothing about this stuff. This is a year
and a half and she now understands
because of that dollar cost averaging
and taking ownership that you exactly as
you said, once you actually own
something, that 401k you don't actually
really own. It's like some other guy
does something with it and hopefully he
makes money. This is you. You're taking
responsibility for your own finances.
That's so empowering. What does the log
chart do? I've heard the phrase, but I I
honestly don't know what that means. The
scale. So, normally a scale would go
like a Bitcoin chart, well, because it
starts really low, it might start at $10
and then it's got to go up to
$65,000.
So, suddenly you're seeing a move, a
$1,000 move.
Um it looks small, but before it was
big. So, what happens is it squashes the
chart
because most of the price action has
happened from let's say $10,000 to
$65,000.
So, you keep getting this, looks like
this at all the time.
And so, this is just by stretching out
the timeline? No. So, what a log chart
does is change the scale where it
doubles every measure. So, it goes $10,
$100, or it goes 10x, let's say. $10,
$100, $1,000, $1,000,000.
What that little trick does
is smooth out all of this issue.
Um so,
you'll get comfortable when you look at
it just to realize that and look at the
scale, look how much changed versus the
other scale
and you'll see from that
it basically compresses all of this.
It's the same as if you do use
percentages.
Because you know, a 5,000 point move now
in Bitcoin is not the same as a 5,000
point move when it was at 5,000. It
would have been
And now it's not. Now it's like whatever
it is today, 10%.
So, it's it's it's changing that.
Um and that that really really really
helps.
One of the words that we need to define
is tokenization. What does that mean?
So, remember we talked about smart
contracts. Smart contracts are this
thing that you can attach to the
blockchain, and that contract can be any
kind of contract.
So,
that brings up the word tokenization.
Because you can therefore attach
anything onto the blockchain because of
this contract.
Piece of art, fractionalized real
estate, whatever. Whatever.
So,
Bitcoin, okay? That's attached on the
blockchain. But now it can be other
things cuz the contract will say, "Well,
legally has the rights to this."
So, it starts off with people
conceptualizing about real estate,
artwork, other things. Why real estate?
This is a really powerful thing. Real
estate, none of us can afford the $50
million apartment in Manhattan.
But that goes up 100% in 2 years, unlike
something in Queens that goes up
20% in 5 years.
So, the rich dude's getting richer,
while the poor are getting less well
off. The rich-poor divide.
Once you fractionalize it like you can
with Bitcoin,
that anybody can own 10% of their net
worth in a $50 million apartment, we're
all making the same amount of returns.
The rich don't get richer.
We all get the same.
If it goes down in price, we all go down
in price.
That is what it should be. That is what
tokenizing real estate's going to do.
And you can do it with tokenizing
artwork. So, you're allowing
fractionalized ownership of all sorts of
things that is recorded. Nobody can take
it away from you. It's written
and recorded on the blockchain.
And on that ledger, it's confirmed by
lots of people to say, "Tom owns this
piece of this real estate and nobody
else can take it." Okay, that's genius.
But then what happened was this massive
explosion this year in digital art.
Or just happened last year. Digital art
was where you start
tokenizing
the recorded ownership of something
digital. So, people say digital art,
well, it's just a JPEG.
Well, a JPEG has no scarcity.
Now, it's the same with with graphic
arts.
So, photographic art has no real
scarcity
until it's signed.
Or you have the negative.
Then it's priceless.
That creates scarcity.
And I collect signed rock and roll
photographs
um of of music artists signed by famous
photographers.
Now,
because it has scarcity and I like that.
Um so,
that applies with digital art, too.
Because if you say there's only going to
be one of this and it's recorded on a
blockchain
and it's called a non-fungible token,
it's a token,
then I can sell it to you and you now
have the rights to it.
We have scarcity. There's one.
And this guy called Beeple
creates
I don't know. I can't remember how many
pieces of art, like 14,000 pieces of
art.
Oh, it's more. So, he did 15,000 pieces
of art which was all into one
JPEG
um which was 13 years worth of daily
art.
And all incredible.
And then he sells it at Christie's or
Sotheby's
for 60 9 million dollars.
And everyone goes, "Oh my god." It's the
same when Damien when Banksy started
selling graffiti art and everyone's
like, "This is ridiculous."
And now suddenly everybody wants a
Banksy. And it's the same when
um
Jackson Pollock started spraying paint
and now everyone wants a Jackson
Pollock. Nobody believes in art until
they do. And it's that same human system
you talked about. Once we perceive it's
got value, it's got value. That's how
it's going to be. And we will trade it
for whatever it is.
So, we can put digital art
we can tokenize it and own it.
The art market, you know, depending on
how how you count or whatever, trillion
dollars or less, right?
The digital art market, you just said
it. OpenSea did $3 billion in
transaction volume in a in in a single
month.
And so, why is Bitcoin
better as a global store value than
gold? Why is the digital version better
than the analog? Well, one,
there is uh a digital component to it,
meaning that anyone in the world with an
internet connection can sign in and
immediately start to transact in it. So,
there's an accessibility advantage. Two,
is there's fractionalization. I don't
have to buy a full Bitcoin at 45,
50,000. I can buy a piece of a Bitcoin.
Uh three is that I can carry it around
really simply on my phone, right? Or on
my laptop, rather than lugging around
physical gold. So, there's a portability
advantage to it.
And then, you start to look at it from
um a storage cost, etc., right? There's
a whole bunch of advantages. Digital
version for versus the physical version.
What happens with the digital art? It's
the same thing.
More accessible, more divisible, more
portable, all this type of stuff. And
so, if we're going to go and move our
lives into this like metaverse, digital
world, whatever, you know, is the the
new way to describe it,
why would we leave
the assets we care about in the analog
world? No, we're going to bring them
into the digital world, too. More
obviously, it's with musicians and
sports stars.
You know, if you're Rihanna,
you have
you're the third largest social media
influence in the world after
Barack Obama and I can't remember who
the other who the next one was.
So, it's her and Bieber.
She has 150
million followers.
Wow. That's just on Twitter.
So, her reach is something like 400
million people
on a daily basis.
They all want to be part of the
community of Rihanna.
We saw that with Lady Gaga and her
little monsters.
If you give them a leader,
a mission,
a set of rules,
and then a system of money,
you've created an economy, a country, a
digital country.
And that has value. If you make your
society successful,
it goes up in value and you create more
GDP.
So, this is now us getting rich from
culture.
And that's what people don't understand.
All of this is going away. The bankers,
the VCs,
the private equity,
everybody in the middle of this
equation, the people like Google and
Facebook who monetize your community and
my community
and make more money out of it than we
will.
They That goes away
because we have direct relationships
with our community because they're token
holders.
And the community benefits because they
make money out of that because you're
stripping out middlemen and the money
goes back into the value of the network.
So, yeah, I mean, it's And this is
I'm talking quite a lot about this right
now and I get a lot of people going, "I
don't quite get my head around it." Cuz
people are still trying to get their
head around the digital asset space, but
this is even bigger because you won't
even know it's crypto in the end. It's
just like your membership points to
communities that you're part of and
you'll realize that you're part of these
nations and it might be the nation of
Rihanna
and you might be there for 20 years.
What if I don't want to buy? The easiest
example is these like media
subscriptions. I don't want to spend 30
bucks a month for a media subscription,
but I really want to read this one
article.
I'll pay you 10 cents for it.
And what if I can just simply do that
automatically?
Mhm. Rather than have the $30 thing.
They actually probably will make more
money doing that than forcing people
into the monthly subscription. This is
where the more you're in the NFT world,
you begin to realize like the ultimate
fantasy for anybody selling anything is
to have you just connect your wallet and
then it's especially if you still in
your own mind sort of denominate in
dollars, it's like oh yeah, I've got
these, you know, Ethereum coins,
whatever they are and I can click this
and it's only point 04, you know,
whatever ETH. It's like oh, that doesn't
sound so bad. And you just you end up
buying way more than you would. It is so
effortless. The wanting to having is
like so quick. And so to your point the
number of times I've gone to read an
article and I'm like you've got to be
kidding. Like even the thought of having
to open an account and put in my credit
card, no way. So even if I could get
that article for 10 cents knowing the
sort of traditional hoops I'd have to go
through, I'm not I'm not typing my name
or any of that [ __ ] But now with a
MetaMask wallet, you go literally it
prompts you connect, you hit connect and
then it's like you want to buy this?
Yes. Two clicks and now you're reading
the article for 10 cents. I mean that I
had never thought of that but that would
be
it it will increase spending
tenfold, twentyfold. Be crazy. I I
when we agreed that we were going to do
this, I think it was going to be more of
a conversation but I'm going to pull you
down the rabbit hole cuz I could tell
you're intellectually interested in this
stuff.
I'll give you another use case that I
think will have a profound economic
impact globally.
Historically an employee gets paid every
two weeks.
In the four largest banks, this this
data comes from I think 2019. They made
$8 billion in overdraft fees.
So an overdraft means that they tried to
debit your account
Mhm.
and you didn't have any money in there.
Yeah.
So, the four largest banks made $8
billion from people that didn't have any
money.
There's all kinds of ethical and then
questions and whatever.
Part of the problem is when you start to
un- unlock this and look into it is uh
the folks at a Bridge, another company I
invested in,
um
they went and did a whole deep dive. Why
are these people why don't they have
money? What is it? It's usually not cuz
they don't have money. It's because they
get paid every 2 weeks. So, I get paid
on the 1st and the 15th.
On the 10th I went gro- grocery
shopping. My car payment's on the 11th.
My Netflix hits on the 12th. Oh, I made
a purchase on the 13th. Overdraft.
Yep.
If I get you don't
real-time updates, by the way. So, you
don't even know where your account is.
You think you're fine. Like trying to
track all the mental math or write it
down, get out of here.
So, when I get paid on the 15th, what do
I do? I pay for the the things that I
need. And then I just have budgeted in
an overdraft fee.
And my $35 overdraft fee every month
adds up and so does all the other
millions of Americans and ends up being
$8 billion for top four companies. Oh my
god.
Now,
why can't we pay people at the end of
every day?
Why when you leave work today don't you
get paid? Why does it only once, you
know, or twice a a month? It's a
technology problem,
right? And sure, there is economic
reasons why the company wants to hold
the money rather than give it to you and
they earn interest or or whatever,
right?
But it's mainly a technology problem
because there's two components. One is
how do I actually pay you every day?
What am I going to wire? Am I going to
run payroll every day? Like that's
pretty crazy, right? That seems
inefficient. And two, how do I keep
track of it? How do I do the accounting
around Well, did Tom get paid? Did he
actually get it? Yeah, okay, he got it.
All right. Who who didn't get paid
today? Who didn't come into work? Okay,
we don't pay them, whatever.
So,
when you bring the cost of sending small
amounts of money to zero
and you do it in a frictionless
censorship resistant way,
you get what you call streaming
payments.
So, kind of the most economic prosperity
is now I can pay every one of my
employees at the end of every day.
Well, if I do that,
how much better financial position are
they going to be in? Just that alone
would drastically lift millions of
people around the world into a better
financial position. Just pay people at
the end of every day. So, one of the
things that the NFT market has taught me
is that
in fact, I wrote my rules. I They were
tongue-in-cheek when I wrote them, but I
think I should publish them.
is that
everything you think is cool is going to
go to zero, and everything that you
think is dumb is going to moon. And I've
just seen that play out over and over
and over again. It's really hard to
predict what other people are going to
think is cool because it's really a
moment is created, energy is
orchestrated somehow through this
It's not an invisible hand cuz there are
some people that are really good at it,
but they can get the energy moving
towards a project for whatever reason.
Like, I don't know if you paid attention
what happened with Loot. Mhm. So, um the
guy that I consider my king of alpha,
David, um he sent me a tweet. Like, I
was about to go to bed, and he was like,
"Hey, Tom, this thing called Loot is
popping off. Look at it." I looked at
it, and I'm like, "This is white words
on black a black background. This
doesn't make any sense." And I was like,
"But I know this industry, and if people
believe that this is like new, fresh,
exciting, that at least for a moment
there's going to be this influx of
attention." Now, that moment could be 10
years, that moment could be 10 minutes.
I have no idea, but I'm getting better
and better at sort of arbitraging some
of these things. So, I bought two of
them. And then, a couple days later, if
you owned them, you got an airdrop of uh
basically their token.
And I didn't even know about the
airdrop, and the same guy, David, was
like, "Hey, Tom, because you bought two,
you've been airdropped the stuff. You
actually have to go pull it out of the
contract directly, and so I'll show you
how to do it. So here you go out into
etherscan and this is how you do it.
And I got it and I got my two bags of
gold. And as of that day
that thing so I bought the ones that I
bought I think I bought it I can't
remember if it was 1.9 ETH for the
original loots or 0.9 but it was in
there somewhere. And
at the time I got the gold which
remember I didn't even know existed. I
was already making money hand over fist
just on the actual squares that I
bought. And the bags of um their coin
that my friend had to tell me were there
I went and sold one of the two for
$50,000.
And I was like I imagine if a friend was
like hey dude I know you don't know but
in your bread box in the back cupboard a
guy just left you 50 grand. You'd be
like what just happened? It was so
surreal. And I was just like okay.
Don't think about things. Think about
the nature of things.
What about people that look at that and
go yes cool you've built this amazing
protective layer but it comes at the
cost of the environment. The actual cost
is um
you know nominally 0.1%
of the energy used in the world but the
economic value of the energy is not even
10 basis points it's like three basis
points. So you're talking about like
it's almost if you put it on a sheet of
paper it would be like a a couple of
dots but you can't even see it.
The uh the overall energy generated in
the in the economy is like 160,000
terawatt hours and the wasted energy is
50,000 terawatt hours and Bitcoin is
120 out of 50,000 wasted energy. So, it
it really is insignificant as an energy
load on the environment.
But, if you dig a bit deeper, you'll
find that actually Bitcoin is much
cleaner energy than all the rest of the
applications. Cars, planes, trains,
automobiles. It's pretty obvious uh
planes use fossil fuels.
There's no hope for them not to.
Bitcoin doesn't. Bitcoin is actually
something that runs on electricity. It
doesn't run on fossil fuels.
You know, most cars still use fossil
fuels, and even electric cars are
charged at charging stations that are
charged with fossil fuels. So,
so the environmentalists ultimately are
going to focus upon the energy grid. And
if they want to shut down fossil fuels
or change the energy mix away from coal
or something, they'll do that. Bitcoin
uh is the highest value application of
energy on a wholesale basis that we have
in the world. There's nothing
nothing more valuable. There's no more
valuable use of energy than Bitcoin. The
latest generation of SHA-256 miners,
they will generate almost 45 cents a
kilowatt hour in value, which means you
can take them anywhere on Earth to the
North Pole. You can put a nuclear
reactor on the North Pole and run and
run Bitcoin mining from it. You can plug
them into wind generators a thousand
miles out into a desert. You can plug
them into geothermal on an island like
Iceland.
And you can generate 45 cents a kilowatt
hour.
The typical residential electricity cost
is 13 cents a kilowatt hour. Industrial
usage in the first world is 11 cents a
kilowatt hour.
And all that energy has to be co-located
with the factories and the people.
Right? We don't you know, we don't have
an application, an industrial
application of energy like Bitcoin that
you can put anywhere on Earth. So,
what's the result? The result is that
Bitcoin is used to recycle stranded
energy or wasted energy.
If you have um
If you have a hydroelectric dam and you
have a lot of energy, but you don't have
people to use it, well, the dam is
generating energy year-round, but the
people don't need it but maybe a few
months a year or maybe they don't need
it in the evening, they just need it
during the day to run their air
conditioners.
Like air conditioning is a great example
of a cycling energy use.
Bitcoin is perfect a perfect energy uh
battery because you can run it at night
while the people are asleep and the air
conditioning is off. And so, you level
out energy consumption on the grid
thereby driving on the cost of energy
for everybody on Earth.
And for any any plant that would
otherwise be decommissioned, you have a
use for it if you don't want to
decommission it.
And of course, as you can imagine uh the
sun shines in the desert where people
don't live and the wind blows in places
where people don't live and volcanoes,
you know, and geothermal energy exists
where people don't want to live.
Those are three sources of energy.
They're all sustainable renewable
energy, but
if you know anything about a power
engineering, you know, you can't move
electricity more than 500 miles on a
grid.
Period. It's a hard stop, a hard limit.
If you happen to find geothermal energy
more than 500 miles from Manhattan,
we don't need it.
And and uh newsflash, we've already got
too much energy. Right? So, even if you
found geothermal energy in the middle of
Central Park, we still don't need it.
And so, what if I told you, Tom, I've
actually got infinite free sustainable
energy
and it's a thousand miles away from a
city.
What are you going to do with it? Well,
the I mean the the only obvious thing to
do with is Bitcoin mining.
So, Bitcoin is migrating to the ends of
the earth
to the most sustainable energy, which is
also the cheapest energy, which is also
the greenest energy.
And um and it's a solution to the
problem of how do we catalyze
sustainable energy? How do we get green?
It's also a solution to every country's
problem. You know, you're you're in the
middle of Africa with a waterfall and no
industry.
What's your best How you going to lift
your people out of poverty?
Huh? You plug you know, a turbine into
your waterfall, you plug Bitcoin mining
into the turbine, and now you have cheap
uh cheap energy plug that's green that's
plugged into a clean
hard currency exporter
that pays taxes that elevates you out of
poverty
that's environmentally friendly.
In the beginning, all the legacy players
wanted nothing to do with this. And and
a lot of my time was focused on Bitcoin,
cuz that was really the only liquid true
asset they would even you have a
conversation about.
All the billionaire investors, not
interested. All the big Wall Street
banks, not interested. All the um
you know, institutional investors, not
interested.
Almost
to a T
the best in the world
have changed their mind.
They continued to get new information
and they changed their mind.
And now some of them are the largest
investors in the industry.
And so there's a level of intelligence
and intellectual humility it takes to
get new information and change your
mind.
You've talked about Bitcoin is going to
become the global reserve currency. I
don't think that governments go down
without a fight.
Yeah, so
global reserve currency uh for falls
like a term that everyone talks about,
but
what is a global reserve currency,
right? Um there's two ways to look at
this. One is the legacy terminology of
global reserve currency, which is the
most dominant military basically puts
the uh the currency, you know, in place
and then enforces that across the world.
The dollar's you know, a pretty good way
to uh to use that as an example.
Every economy has a reserve asset.
The US economy is based on the US
geographic
uh players, right? People within the US
uh geography
and the reserve asset is the US dollar.
If you go to Mexico,
the Mexican economy has a reserve asset,
the peso, etc. And you go through the
world, this is true.
There's an economy though that has been
created. It's actually the largest
economy in the world and it doesn't have
a reserve asset, it's the internet. The
digital economy does not care about
where you physically are. Geography does
not matter. It's unhinged from the the
geography.
What's the reserve asset of the digital
economy?
Well,
most people would say, "Why use
dollars?" Right? That that seems to be
one of the more popular ones.
But that's cuz we live in the developed
Western world.
People on the internet in India don't
use dollars,
right? They use their local currency and
you go around the world and you see
this.
What happens if we all just used one
currency and all the units were the
same?
Okay, that'd be interesting.
And so, the reason why I say that it is
going to be a global reserve currency is
actually don't think it's nearly as
competitive with fiat currencies as
people think it is
because ultimately what happens is
the digital store of value, I want to
protect my assets.
And so, what we're moving towards is a
multi-currency world, right? Right now
you and I live in a single-currency
world. You get paid in dollars, save in
dollars, invest in dollars, and then you
also pay taxes in dollars. If you want
to go to somebody else's single-currency
world, Mexico, you have to convert your
dollars to pesos to operate within the
the Mexican uh economy for the most
part.
Well, when you make that conversion,
it's actually very difficult.
Go to the bank and you try to withdraw
it, it's got to be large sums.
Or you go to like a currency exchanger
at the airport and rip you off, right?
Like like it sucks.
What happens if all of a sudden the
friction and the cost of transacting
between currencies or switching the
switching cost goes to zero?
And now I get paid in dollars
and with the click of a button I can
change my dollars into pesos or into
Bitcoin or into a digital euro, etc.
Well, now the technology is the exact
same.
The only difference, the only
competition between the currencies is at
the monetary policy standpoint. They're
all digital currencies. So, the digital
dollar, the digital peso, and Bitcoin
are literally all the same
technology-wise in that steady state.
But there's competition at the top
layer.
At the monetary at the monetary policy
layer.
What is monetary policy?
All fiat currencies have the same
monetary policy on on a
structure standpoint. They're all
inflationary currencies, meaning that
there's constantly more printed of it.
It's got a variable monetary policy,
meaning that uh it constantly changes.
Sometimes they're uh expanding,
sometimes they're contracting, but the
reason why the dollar is guaranteed to
lose value is cuz they have to continue
to create more of it, right? Same with
the peso, same with the euro, etc.
So, if you actually take all the fiat
currencies and you put them in a bucket,
there is a non-consensus or a different
currency structure, which is Bitcoin for
example.
And so, if it ends up being right, it's
going to be wildly valuable. It's
non-consensus and right.
But two is
if I'm looking to store value, if I'm
trying to save,
I'm not going to save in the fiat
structure. It regardless of the
currency, it doesn't matter dollars,
euros, yen, whatever.
I'm going to put it into an asset where
it protects my purchasing power.
And if the switching cost is zero, and I
can switch back and forth very easily.
So, you can see a world where my
employer pays me in dollars,
it auto converts into Bitcoin, I sit it
there, and then I got to pay my taxes in
dollars. I convert back into dollars and
I pay.
Well, I'm saving in Bitcoin. I'm storing
value in Bitcoin. What do people do?
Well, historically, maybe I would have
to buy real estate to do that. So, my
employer paid me in dollars, I took the
dollars, I converted it into real
estate, I sat there, and then all of a
sudden I needed money to pay my taxes, I
could sell the real estate, get it, and
pay it back. Now, that's a ridiculous,
you know, uh order of events if I'm
simply going to use it as a saving
mechanism to then pay my taxes, you
know, later this year.
Because there's
cost, there's time lapse, etc.
But, there's no difference between doing
that with real estate or doing it with
Bitcoin.
It's just now all of a sudden I can do
it instantaneously. I can do it with a
digital asset that protects my
purchasing power, and the switching cost
is is zero, essentially.
And so, when we move to a multi-currency
world, actually in some crazy way, the
fiat currencies may become more
valuable.
And this is, uh not everyone agrees with
this. I was going to say, I'm so
intrigued.
It's like the restaurant problem, right?
If I put a restaurant on a intersection,
it's the only restaurant, it gets, let's
say, 10 people a day.
If I put a restaurant across the street,
many times people will say, "Oh, that's
competition. Now, that first
restaurant's going to suffer."
If I put a third one there, people say,
"Oh my god, that first one's screwed." A
fourth one, "Oh my god, the first one is
out of business."
In reality, what happens is all the
studies show, when you build density at
the intersection,
everyone actually gets more traffic
because that that becomes known as
restaurant intersection. That's where
all the restaurants are. I'm hungry, I
don't know, let's just go down there,
we'll figure something out. And so,
actually the first one benefits from
having the others move in there.
There's two arguments when it comes to
Bitcoin and the fiat currencies. One is
that they're in direct competition with
each other, Bitcoin wins, fiat
currencies lose, game over, right? And
in that scenario, governments absolutely
do not want this to happen. The
governments that embrace the technology
that ends up being the winner first will
drastically outperform those that are
last to adopt it, right?
The second one is this argument of
no, actually a multi-currency world, all
boats rise together.
Now,
you know, I talked earlier about I don't
want to be a market predictor.
What I find right now is as technologies
are being digitized, actually increases
the accessibility of them for people
around the world.
So, take that second example. I'm in
Venezuela. The bolivar ends up getting
devalued away. I know I got to get out.
Really, really hard for me to get
dollars. I can try through the bank, but
there's limitations. I'm worried about
confiscation by the government, etc.
The black market is really pricey in
terms of it could cost me a lot to
actually go buy it, and it could
actually be physically dangerous.
So, why do I want dollars? Well, there's
safety in the dollar in my mind. There's
stability. There There That's the best
currency. My currency sucks, this one's
great. Let me go buy this one.
Okay, dollars are hard to get. I'll get
gold. Well, hard to find, can be
physically dangerous, could be
confiscated, etc.
Okay, well, what can I do on the
internet? If all of a sudden I think,
let's say Bitcoin's too volatile for me.
I want dollars, but the dollar isn't
digitized on these platforms, but China
takes their currency and they create a
digital currency.
It's better than nothing.
So, what do I do? I buy the digital
currency of China.
And it's just a pure accessibility
thing. So, I think ultimately the
incentive is that everything will be
digitized, right? You'll get digital
dollars, their euro, yen, etc. And some
of that will be because people believe
that there's some sort of internal
domestic advantage to it.
But also some of it's going to be just
simply the game theory of we have to
digitize our currency so it's accessible
to people around the world and so we can
drive more adoption and more more value.
But the second that everyone has digital
wallets,
everything becomes a currency.
Right?
How many people say to themselves, oh I
own that piece of real estate, I need to
sell it to get dollars to then go buy
something.
Well, what happens when I can just
take the real estate and buy directly
the asset, I don't have to go to the
common unit of account of a dollar?
All the technology is the same.
The value just is different.
And so you get this really weird world
where like I don't know what's going to
happen in the future.
But you can clearly articulate two or
three different versions
and in every single one of those
versions,
Bitcoin specifically is valuable.
I've got a very clear idea of what what
where I think it's going and how it's
going to go. So I have my thesis.
And
when everything starts falling apart
like the market starts moving,
A, I look like how has it moved in the
past? And it it's done similar things,
right? And I've been telling everybody
who's ever got into the space,
you need to expect a 50% correction in a
bull market
and you might see a 70%
bear market
and over 5 years, you'll have still made
more money than you can imagine.
So you have to accept those things.
So this thing starts tanking, Bitcoin
starts first and then Ethereum rolls
over later and it all and it's all down
50%.
And
I said I
I've got this weight on my shoulders.
I've got all of these people that have
been following me. I have been telling
them this but you know, it messes with
your mind. And I pick out the one chart
that matters to me,
which is the adoption chart.
Is anything that's going on with China
and mining and this and that changing
the adoption curve or not?
No.
So then as you said, the relentless rise
of technology continues. So, la la la, I
can't hear it.
So, I turn around to my wife and I'm
like,
"You know,
you know, it's fallen 50% everybody's
freaking out." And she just looked at me
and goes, "You are all so ridiculous."
She said, "You said you should expect
this. Now it's happening, everybody's
freaking out." And she just walked off
and said, "Don't be so She just said,
"Don't be so stupid." and walked out of
the room.
And I'm like, "Yeah."
Just, you know, Twitter is somewhere
sometimes or Reddit or whatever whatever
forum you're on is sometimes your enemy.
I could talk to somebody all day long
and they could tell me Bitcoin's not
valuable. The best retort to that is
it's a trillion-dollar asset that has
tens of millions of people around the
world holding it and it does more uh
transaction volume than some of the card
networks.
Sure, maybe it's not valuable, right?
But like
yeah, but the market has determined that
that is valuable. And you just work your
way through the assets and what you find
is asset after asset that some group of
people think is invaluable. Well, the
market's decided it has value. You could
argue that the market is wrong or
mispricing it or whatever and there's
arbitrage opportunities, etc. But
ultimately, I think that um
we're really bad at predicting the
future and so the more that you can be a
market observer rather than a market
predictor, uh you start to just
understand uh crazy stuff happens.