Creative Labor: A Boston Cultural Policy Summit - Why the Arts Are Essential to Civic Engagement

Thank you all so much for being here. Uh my name is Karthik Subraman. I use hehim pronouns. Uh I am the managing director at company one theater and part of the leadership team. >> Thank you. Welcome to Creative Labor, a Boston cultural policy summit. Thank you all for taking time today morning uh to share the space with us. Um, for those of us meeting us for the first time, Company 1 has spent 27 years building community at the intersection of art and social change. Um, we believe in public art for public good. Uh, and we want to help build a Boston that is defined by justice, equity, and artistic innovation. Thank you. We gather this morning in collaboration with two partners we absolutely love. Uh, the first is Boston Public Library. Um, Hey. Um, there are fewer and fewer places in American life where anyone, and we mean anyone, can walk through the door and belong. And we're standing in one of them. It matters that a conversation about arts, culture, and who the city serves is happening inside a civic institution built on exactly that promise. Libraries aren't just hosting the arts and culture ecosystem today, but they are part of it. presenting work, supporting artists, and holding creative life in every neighborhood of the city. We're honored to be their guests. The second is Arts Activate Boston, the coalition working to shift city understanding of the arts, not just as a ticket, but as civic infrastructure. Company 1 is proud to be the founding steering committee member of that coalition. And today is the first of four coalition at four convenings that we're bringing to Boston. I also want to acknowledge the Doris Duke Foundation and the Bar Foundation without whose support uh we would not be able to do this summit. You're going to hear from all of these partners in a minute. Um but before I hand it off to them, I just want to talk about why we are here today and why today matters. Everything Boston loves about its arts. The murals and the music, the theater and the festivals, the art in our schools and on our stages, all of it is made by labor. None of it exists without the people who create it. And but today is more than protecting that labor. It's about what an equitable sector actually looks like. One where the people who make Boston's culture can afford to live in Boston. Where a career in the arts isn't reserved for those who can subsidize it. and where the people making the art, making the decisions, and getting paid actually reflect the city. We're not there yet. So, we could not be prouder to host this summit where artists, creative workers, funders, and the city sit at the table to change that. That Thank you again so much for being here, and I'll hand it off to David Leonard, the president of the Boston Public Library. Uh so good morning and welcome to your library. Uh welcome to those of you who are joining us for the first time today. Um for those of you coming back for day two, there was a small group meeting yesterday. Welcome back. Those of you who were here yesterday, your meetings happened in the older building, our 1895 Bose art, art and architecture. Today, however, we are gathering in this renovated 1970s proto brutalist architecture, albeit a little warmed up and colored in. Right? So, uh, so yes, a library can be both historic and modern at the same time. The BPL is the first large municipally funded public library in the United States of America, dating to 1848. Today, we hold this central library and 25 branches in every neighborhood of Boston. Uh we also serve as the library for the Commonwealth and anyone who lives, works, or goes to school anywhere in Massachusetts is entitled to a full service library card. Our collections today number between 20 and 23 million objects, the third largest in the US. There's a few pieces of art in that collection, too. Now, as you entered perhaps through the Boilson Street entrance, you will have passed by our free to all wall that um takes the motto from the front of the McKin building and expresses it in multiple languages. The free and the all are equally important. You may have passed through the interior atrium above us. Maybe you looked up to see Lexicon, a recent public art project, an example of public art and of fabrication and making itself a collaboration between MIT's Center for Bits and Adams and the Mayor's Office in Arts and Culture. unexpected bedfellows perhaps. Now we are thrilled to host today for three real reasons. Um first the library itself sees itself as much a part of the arts and culture sector as we are a learning and education partner as we are a civic engagement and human services entity. Those are not really separate sectors at the end of the day now are they? Secondly, our long-standing partnership with Company 1, your primary hosts for this series. Our relationship now goes back to 2017 formally when in this very space we hosted their production of GI Parks Peerless. Described as the first fully staged theatrical run ever staged in this space, a bright, loud, colorful, and costic comedy in the vein of Mean Girls meets McBth. Yes. Um, setting one of Shakespeare's bloodiest plays against the backdrop of competitive college admissions, dealing with issues of personal identity and coming of age. So we have been demonstrating now over these last six years what it means to be as a library a platform for the arts where we share together in the public good agenda. Thirdly, as the Boston Public Library, we also serve as a department of the city of Boston, which provides us an opportunity for alignment with the mayor's vision of Boston as a home for everyone in the broadest sense of sustained home and also alignment with now our new chief of arts and culture. The mayor unfortunately could not be here today, but sends greetings for a successful convening and is with us in spirit. We will hear momentarily from the mayor's office of arts and culture. I would suggest however the timing of this convening is very important. The city has just also announced a new chief of economic inclusion. Convergence perhaps is the name of the day. What does this mean for the arts and culture sector as we think locally, regionally, and nationally to focus specifically on the lens of creative labor which could form a more aggressive and deliberate policy agenda for our sector? So, thank you for being here. Please consider us your platform, your partner, your advocate. Welcome. Welcome again to YOUR LIBRARY. AND FOR the for the next series of speakers um we are asking them to formally introduce themselves and I will call it call on Ashley from Daris Duke. Thank you. Oh no. >> Oh sorry correction. >> I I missed David up. It'll actually be Arts Activate Boston next. Thank you everyone. We were just so eager. We wanted to cut the line. So, thank you for having us. Hi everyone. My name is Maria Finkel Meyer. I'm a percussionist and a composer, owner of MF Dynamics, and professor of creative entrepreneurship at Berkeley College of Music. >> And good morning everybody. My name is Aon Meyers. I'm the executive director of Boston Dance Alliance and the co-founder of a trike called Funk. Okay. >> And we are here today to tell you just a little bit about Arts Activate Boston. >> All right. So, Arts Activate Boston was born out of the advocacy efforts around hosting the Boston Mayorial Forum in 2025. Uh the act advocacy continued as we worked to reinstate the arts budget this past spring. >> Thank you. We are 100% of volunteer advocacy coalition representing the art sector from around Boston and beyond. Um our areas are in infrastructure funding and policy. Now we are the lovely warm bodies in this room convening around creative labor and we have three more convenings coming up in the next year. Um they will be around creative equity and access, creative space and creative youth arts and education. We are very creative if you haven't noticed. Um, after each of these convenings, Arts Activate Boston, we will synthesize the information. We will share it out and we will really um continue to bridge all of these different spaces from arts stake quarters to artists themselves. >> Awesome. And at this moment, we'd like to take uh some time to recognize the Arts Activate Boston steering committee in the place to be right here in the heart of Boston at the public library. Will all of its members please stand up and stand tall so we can give them a round of applause y'all. In particular, I would like to acknowledge and thank those who are leading this group starting with Caric of Company 1, our friend Amy of Art Stays here, and over here on the far side, we got Emily of Mass Creative. We appreciate ALL OF YOU. WE'D LIKE TO THANK ALL members of the arts activate Boston steering committee as well as everyone involved in making today the creative labor summit possible including the summit's host committee company one theater Boston public library. We never take space for granted and thank you for holding this beautiful space for us to come together. And last but not least, the bar endorsed Duke Foundations. Without their support, this would not have been possible. And for the rest of you, your presence is a gift and critical to shaping the brighter future we want to see for creative labor in this city. >> Now, if Aon's energy isn't just making you resonate or if the conversations you had out in the hallway aren't getting you excited, we just want to share that we welcome more members. We uh it's been really beautiful over the summer. We have bi-weekly meetings to really express what's happening in all of these different nooks of our city to come together. So, if any of the topics of the next convenings are interesting to you and you want to be a part of those conversations for shaping those convenings, please talk to any of those wonderful humans that stood up. And there'll also be um information that will be um out throughout the day. So, thank you on behalf of Arts Activate Boston. >> Thank you. Good morning, Boston. How is everybody? It's so nice to be here with you all. My name is Ashley Pharaoh Murray and I'm the arts program director at the Doris Duke Foundation. We really appreciate you all joining us for what is the culminating event of this year's creative labor creative conditions campaign. I want to be sure to start with a couple of very hearty thanks. First, thanks to our funding partners in the room, uh the Bar Foundation, ACT, Arts Activate Boston, who we just heard from. We are so excited about the work that you're doing. the Boston Public Library for this beautiful space and to the Melon and Ford Foundations for supporting supporting coordinating events around today's gathering. Most importantly, enormous enormous thanks to Company 1 Theater and especially to Carthic for providing the leadership and vision and for hosting us so warmly and generously. Thank you. Thank you. We at the Doris Duke Foundation started the creative labor creative conditions campaign three years ago now to foster a higher valuation of artists and their labor and to help advocate for the conditions that artists need to thrive. The campaign consists of bespoke, locally led, and artist centered activations in different cities and towns across the United States between Mayday and Labor Dayish annually. No two events are the same. To give you a taste, we'd like to share with you a brief video that tells you where we began this year on Mayday. Heat. HEAT. HEAT. Since then, in partnership with this year's curatorial consultant, Nataki Garrett, who's here in the house today, so I hope you'll say hi. We have hosted 10 events from New York City to Hawaii. Earlier this summer, we were in Boston. So, this is our second time here. Um, in June, we gathered with the theater offensive to start with some deep table work regarding care and learnings from our trans elders. The campaign also featured interdisciplinary conversations. We talked about the working conditions of Kanaka Maui artists, gig worker solidarity, alternative artistic production models, and engagement with popular publiclix. This was really just the tip of the iceberg. To check out materials and learnings from this year's activations, you can head over to our amazing partners at Hellround Theater Commons. And I also just want to shout out to our live stream audience today because Hell Round is also live streaming today's events. Yes, hell round theater comments. So, listen, we are already planning what will be an even broader campaign for next year, and we hope that today you might be inspired to bring this conversation to your community in the future. The performing arts are important to civic life and society. They provide creative solutions and problem solving, new approaches to health and well-being, and artistic outlets to promote community and combat loneliness. This campaign is grounded on the deep belief that if we build the new and better infrastructures needed for artists to thrive, we will have achieved the conditions for us all to thrive. Creative labor, creative conditions isn't meant to find immediate solutions necessarily. First and foremost, the campaign is meant to uplift those artists and allies who have already been working in their own communities, who know and have long articulated the conditions they need, and who desire local and national networks and platforms from which to advocate. We hope that alongside our grant making to sustainable models for artists to thrive that this campaign can help to identify and foster collective threads, coordination, and action. I truly can't wait to dig into all of this with you today. And thank you again for joining us. >> Morning everyone. >> My name is Giles Lee. I use hehim pronouns and I am the director of arts and creativity at the Bar Foundation. Uh thank you so much for having us here today. Thank you to Arts Activate Boston, to Company 1 and Carthic for all the hard work you did in pulling us together and to the Boston Public Library for hosting us. We are very honored to be here as a part of this gathering and excited to be in the room with all of you. Uh bar does not have our own agenda. Uh we don't believe that we really should be setting the agenda at all. What we do believe is that the people in this room, artists and culture workers, organizers and advocates, are the ones who best understand the current moment for all of its challenges, but more all of its possibilities. As many of us navigate uncertainty, we're all asking some version of the same question. What needs to happen to bring about a Boston that supports artists to not just create, but to have thriving, robust careers? what conditions are necessary for a more just, sustainable, and equitable future. At Bar, we believe the way forward should be shaped together. That's why we appreciate rooms like this one, where the experiences, perspectives, and values of important partners and leaders help us envision what comes next. When systems feel uncertain, when the divisiveness of our society is being played out in the institutions that our sector has come to rely on, gatherings like this remind us that our most reliable source of support is often our relationships with each other. The connections, trust, solidarity, and shared commitment in this room, those are among our greatest assets. So, thank you for being here. Thank you for having us here, for bringing your experience and wisdom, and for helping to shape this conversation. We're grateful for the opportunity to listen and learn alongside you. Thanks very much. >> Hi everyone. Good morning. That's so nice. Um, can I be corny and take a photo? I know it's so corny, but I'm so corny and um I'm Julia, by the way, and I'm I'm going to talk to you. But you all look really nice and it's very buoying to be here, so we're we're taking a photo. Whatever. Okay. One, two, three. Okay, that was that was a little soft, guys. Um, my name is Julia Ryan. I use she or they pronouns. I'm the chief of staff for the mayor's office of arts and culture in the city of Boston. And um I've been doing this work for 10 years now. I am here on behalf of our our city and our office and our chief who couldn't be here today um Joseph Henry who is and I think a way that is important to the dignity of creative labor is on vacation right now and we love that for him. Um, should I advance my Can I do this? Slide, please. Thank you. Um, so we are the city of Boston's cabinet um, working in um, collaboration with creative workers with um, cultural workers with cultural organizations to um, hardwire arts culture and the creative economy into Boston's future. Slide, please. There it is right there, too. Um, and on behalf of the city, I just feel so so lucky to be here with you all today. Um, we're working together toward shared approaches to supporting creative labor and I just really want to thank all the organizers for this event. I know you all have spent so much time, months and months and months putting together today and I I feel um I feel really uplifted to be in this community and to be amongst um be amongst friends today. Um slide please. So in our office we have a um we have a guiding principle that we return to in our work and um just to give you some context our office has been around for um about about 10 years now. Um but we are kind of in a moment where we're starting a new chapter. We have new leadership. We have a new vision and we have a lot of really wonderful new staff. And something we like to come back to again and again about ourselves and about each other and about our community is that everyone's work is equally important. Um this is from um Jenny Holtzer's truisms project and this is kind of um a guiding principle for us these days. Um slide please. I'll come back to this. Um our department is full of creative workers. We are government workers. Um, but during our 9 to5 we support the creative work of our communities and outside of 9 to5 we go we go back to our neighborhoods. We go to community meetings. We go to our studio spaces. We go home, we go teach, we go do all these other things that are really important to our um our being, our identities, our human spirit because we we also are creative workers. And so this conference um and summit is really important to us, I think, personally and professionally um because we are all part of it. We're all part of it, too. Um and I'm so proud of our team and I just want to say that right now. We're a team of 25 maybeish people and um everyone is working so hard to to do work that addresses cultural planning that provides grants um and workforce development programs in collaboration with our partners um to deliver artist and residency programs to build policy that addresses the needs of our sector and um and so much more. And I just I just want to shout them out because they work really really really hard, I think, to um to hold in their hearts and in their their minds and in their computers kind of every um creative worker who's in our city and try to work toward addressing their needs so Boston can be a place where they can live really good lives. Um slide, please. What I was just showing you, by the way, is an example of the work of one of our teammates. Um, Emma is a uh member of our cultural planning team, but is also a person who organizes um music festivals on the side. And I just wanted you all to see that cuz it's really, really, really cool. Um so in our office we think about our work as touching um creative industries, creative occupations, infrastructure and creative occupations that are not just in the creative world, right? But are across all sectors. And so when we think of like our family and our people and the folks that we work with and we want to take care of, that's who we're talking about. Um the the needs of the creative sector in Massachusetts have I think we can all agree never been clearer. Um in Boston alone the the the data that we've worked with our research team on and other partners suggests that there are around 70,000 um creative economy jobs in Boston and that Boston contributes $15 billion annually to the local economy. And despite this, um, I know we're all feeling incredible pressures to be able to continue to do our work here. Um, and those pressures, I think to solve them, uh, they really require our interconnected ecosystems of of production and manufacturing, rehearsal, presentation spaces to be well supported, um, and really centered in the work that we're doing. Um, slide, please. This is just an example of what David Leonard mentioned earlier, the fabrication of Lexicon, which you can see upstairs and I'm sure you walked under getting in here today. Um, this is a photo that we had documenting the process. And something that our office really wants to focus on more and more is the fact that, um, you know, there's there's these finished products, right, that are wonderful and magical and we see them and we wonder how how that got there. Um but these these processes and products take so many hands and they take so many skills. They take so much training. They they require space. They require um chains for production and I mean optimally that are local. Um that's what we're really working on. So I wanted to share a photo of that slide please. um some of the data trends that I mentioned earlier in addition to those we we know that creative work is driving innovation across Boston and you know the greater region we we know that we don't lack creativity but we need more systems to support it and we also know that um a very very small amount of the development work in Boston has gone toward actually the the production of creative spaces relative to this enormous industry that we all are part of. Um, slide, please. This is just a little bit of a breakdown of that slide. Thank you. This is a photo from the Boston Symphony Orchestra and a few other people here were there last night also at their opening night. And I think when people see photos like this and they think about um the BSO or they think about, you know, performing arts, they think about um slide, they think about musicians, they think about conductors, they think about composers maybe. And I was sitting there last night um at their opening listening to the you know at Brahms and and it was beautiful and it was amazing and I was thinking about like man those um microphones on the ceiling like someone figured out how to hang those and that person probably went through a tremendous amount of training and the lighting that is making YoYo Ma's face glow so beautifully um was so intentional and someone went through a lot of training and more than someone probably like a big old team of someone's did that. Um there's folks who are ensuring that the um you know the the painted gilded frame is is taken care of is conserved. And then there's so many other jobs too that go into this. And this is this is just the ones I could fit on one slide, but if you keep going and going and going and thinking about it, it's it's not it's not just the music, but it's it's the it's everyone who goes into um making this this work happen. And all of those jobs um deserve dignity. They deserve um being able to to grow to, you know, to to live a good life in a city in the place where they live. And so I think I feel really moved to think about that with you all today. Um slide please. So when we think about this um in our office we think about you know how we're we're coming out of the um the America 250. We're going into Boston 400 which is in um we will be celebrating in 2030 the 400th birthday of Boston. And we want to be forward- facing in that. Um, we want to acknowledge the things that we're proud of in our history and the things that we've done well and we want to acknowledge the things that are areas, you know, to to remember to to learn um from and and we know that Boston has always been a place where people can come together to solve problems and creativity is one of our biggest assets in doing that. Um, slide please. And so we want to shift kind of the sector from thinking about creativity and culture as this additional thing um but really as part of everything and as both um a part of the way of addressing things and and the solutions that we see in our future. Um slide please. This is just a nice photo of uh something we're working on. Um this is exit gallery um that everyone should go visit in um Olson Brighton. Next slide. Um so I invite you all to stay tuned about our mission framework that our office is launching this fall. It is something that we invite you all into participating in with us. It's not a traditional um strategic plan, but more of a framework to suggest kind of a shared direction we all want to face in and it's our suggestion and we want to be accountable to the parts that we will be leading, but we really require all of you to be part of it with us. And so some of our our shifts, the things that we want to shift Boston in are growing and retaining our creative workforce, making space for the creative economy, um, and strengthening Boston's global relevance and normalizing cultural participation. And then we have a number of missions that are the ways we want to do that. And I'm already like way over time, so I'm not going to talk about them a lot more, but um, next slide. This is also just a nice photo. This is from um a lovely music studio space um that you all maybe could visit at some point if you want over on Morrisy Boulevard. Um, and so what this all means for us is that we're working toward um together creating a high quality of life, trying to make Boston a place where we all work together to um to work on the common good and also focus in on the creativity and innovation that really drives our economy. Um, so please check out our website, stay tuned. Next slide. Um, those are just photos of me. Um, one of them is from the Elliot School. Thank you, Abigail Norman. Um, and the other is from the Community Music Center of Boston. And I just um I I feel that I struggle to make this work like super super like professional because it feels very personal to me. Um, and when I look at these photos, what I think about is that the person I am now wouldn't be the person I am today. Um, if I hadn't had, uh, people who could teach me, who could create these spaces for me, if I hadn't had the infrastructure to allow for that. Um, and that all is driven by by the creative labor in Boston. And so, you know, I really hope that we can continue to make Boston a place where folks can have um these opportunities to grow, to stay. Um, and I'm excited to do that with you guys. So, stay in touch. Um, and thank you so much. >> Good morning everyone. >> Good morning. How are you? Uh, my name is Summer L. Williams. I use she and her pronouns and I'm on the leadership team and a co-founder at Company 1 Theater. So happy to have you here. Um, so, uh, we thought we'd sort of kick off the conversation and thank you Julia. that was like really sweet to see your little face um in that space um and to also remind so many of us like our why and the intention is to like be creating that sort of infrastructure for all of those who are going to come well after us. So thank you for that reminder. Um this is a little bit about um us being the ones who are receiving something that some foremothers thought of for us. So this summer we produced a show called A New Era. A new era is a story about um Oh, thanks for the smattering. Thank you. Thank you. Um uh some real life women, black women here in 1895 who gathered uh from up and down the eastern seabboard and more to build coalition. Uh, and so we wanted to give you a little taste of what that summer experience was like. And so you're going to see uh a scene by video and then a scene by people. Um, which is amazing. And we have our beautiful actors here, Sydney, and our beautiful actor here, Patrice. And you're going to hear from them in a moment. So just enjoy the view, and then it's going to seamlessly move right into their view. Have a good time. Hallelujah. I wanted to become an artist. It took me months to find a skilled teacher who would admit me. By the second day of class, I was stunned to find my seat completely surrounded by screens. >> White students didn't want me sitting amongst them. Gertrude, you are aware of the oppression colored PEOPLE FACE THROUGHOUT THIS COUNTRY. >> Don't try that empathy trick with me, Josephine. IT WON'T WORK this time. But Victoria, we are compions. I would never, how could you think I WOULD BELITTLE YOUR UPBRINGING? In the south, there are so many contradictions. So much good cheer and so much sadness, so much hope and so much despair and such warmth of welcome on one hand and such awful prejudices on the other. Sometimes I don't know what to think about it. It is only recently that women have waked up to the importance of meeting together >> and in good time. >> Yes, >> we are long due for a good talk. >> We can all testify to how long and how earnestly we have hoped for this conference. 5 years ago, we had no colored women's clubs. And today, with little over a MONTH'S NOTICE, WE ARE ABLE TO CALL ON representatives from more than 20 clubs. every woman. It's all in me. Anything you want, baby. I do it without Heat. Heat. Just kidding. And how's it going? >> I remain encouraged. It's been less than a year since we formed here in Boston, and the merger is well underway. >> Progress indeed. But in which direction will the National Association aim its efforts? Where do you think it's headed? >> Inward. >> In this, does this upset you? >> It is bothersome TO ME. >> UPLIFT IS ONLY THE first step. >> And what if protest? >> If done correctly, uplift may be all we need. >> If uplift is all we need, why are we still hanging from trees? Policy should stand between the innocent negro and those who wish him unconstitutional harm. Don't you agree? WHO WOULD BE THE ARBITERS OF SUCH POLICY? >> WHITE MEN. >> YES. Forced by THE WOMEN OF THE SUFFRAGE MOVEMENT. HOW CAN you be so certain? >> My age. EXPERIENCES THAT HAVE SHAPED MY COURSE. The patterns are clear. They are WOMEN TOO. HALF OF THE HUMAN RACE RELEGATED TO SECONDASS STANDING. They have been SEPARATED FROM THEIR RIGHTS AS CITIZENS. They are mutinous and mobilized. No man wants to go home to that. >> What a blessing it is to be unfamiliar with how they move. >> God forbid that any woman take from the rights of another for the sake of advancing her own. >> Who said that? >> Lydia Mariah Child. A white woman. >> One white woman. >> And there are more and they will align with us. Are you familiar with pie versus Ferguson? >> I am. >> Then you know that a black man is in jail for sitting in the whites only section of a train. He filed a petition saying this was a violation OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT. >> I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE CASE. >> THE COURT WILL RULE. >> I don't know. >> No, but you do. >> I DO NOT. >> COME ON. THEY WILL FOLLOW MR. WASHINGTON'S lead and rule against him. >> You are quite THE PROPHET. >> WHY WOULD they rule that segregation VIOLATES THE 14TH WHEN YOUR HUSBAND CHAMPIONS SEPARATE BUT EQUAL? WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? >> BOOKER IS NOT A ROGUE VOICE. >> He created A BLUEPRINT. HE REPRESENTS A GOOD AMOUNT OF COLORED PEOPLE. Is it any wonder that white men on Capitol Hill love him so much? SEGREGATION HOLDS THE SUPREME COURT IN THE PLACE OF LYNCHING. >> IT IS inappropriate and unfair TO PIT RESPECTABILITY AGAINST LYNCHING. >> There is nothing respectable about voluntary separation. Hiding ourselves AWAY AS THOUGH WE HAVE SOMETHING TO BE ASHAMED OF. THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED. >> WE DON'T separate because of them. We separate for us. There are a myriad OF IMBECILES IN WHITE HOODS GUTTING THE 14TH AMENDMENT. SEGREGATION MAKES US AN EASY TARGET. There is healing when we are together in the safety of our own people. We can determine our course in peace. We will rise up when the time is right. Segregation was never part of my strength. You're welcome to say so at the meetings, but you SIT IN THE BACK AND SAY NOTHING. YOUR DISDAIN IS so obvious. >> The ideas are futile and shortsighted. >> I brought the colored women's league TO THE TABLE. >> YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BRING THE WHITE SUFFRAGETTES TO THAT TABLE. >> I WASN'T AWARE OF YOUR PLANS FOR ME. >> THEY AREN'T for you. They're for us. >> They aren't for us if we don't all agree. The window forced open by RECONSTRUCTION IS CLOSING FAST. WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO WASTE. All we have is time. How many generations have we cycled through since 1619? How many movements have succeeded SO THAT YOU AND I CAN SIT HERE DEBATING over the next one. Time is our reward. It doesn't run out. It just cycles back through. You know, on the last day of the conference, I stopped by a confectionary. I was nervous. The man behind the counter was white. I POINTED OUT WHAT I wanted and he said, "A fine choice, madam. The molasses taffy is fresh this morning." When I gave him my money, his hand touched my I drew it back instinctively and he gave me the funniest look. Our hands touched again when he gave me my change. Here was this white man calling me madam and touching my skin like he would any other customer. And the day before I delivered a speech to some of the finest women I'd ever met, something opened up inside me. I felt so free like I could do anything in this town. So I put my change on the counter and I bought myself a paper. And when I sat down, nobody said a word. I opened it to read and I saw your picture. Here was the woman who brought us all together looking fine in her fancy living room. I started reading and then I got to the part where you said you said that you were proud THAT NOT ONE DROP OF SOUTHERN BLOOD FLOWS THROUGH YOUR VEINS. I REALIZED I'd been holding my breath all along. Your words KNOCKED THE WIND RIGHT OUT OF ME. I felt eyes all over my skin. Was everyone looking at me? Wondering why I was sitting down at that COUNTER AND HOW THIS NEGRO WOMAN LEARNED TO READ. >> I DIDN'T SAY IT. If this is WHY YOU'RE DOING ALL THAT YOU'RE DOING, PLEASE BELIEVE ME. I DIDN'T SAY IT. You're missing it. Josephine, before I read those words, I understood what it felt like to be you fully seen in this body and deemed worthy. GIVEN THE PERMISSION to create enough room for dreaming up a different situation for all of us, it didn't last. When it disappeared, I realized there was still time. My girls will become mothers and grandmothers and great grandmothers. THE GENERATIONS AFTER them will be smarter, God willing, and better off than they are now. Only time allows that. Fixing the problems right in front of me is how I use my time. And I want as much of it as I can get. This country is stuck and we bound to it by three string cord. Blood, flesh, memory. We deliver it or we die. This labor's long. How you're feeling now, it's because it's moving forward. You've done well, Margaret. With your guidance, the National Association will prevail. She already has. Take good care of her. She's ours. Please, let's hear it again for the gorgeous performers of A NEW ERA. WOOHOO. AS SUMMER MENTIONED, the full production of a world premiere by local playwright Miranda Austin at Deco Jay was a resounding success this past summer at the Strand Theater in Upam's Corner, Dorchester, a city-owned historic theater known primarily for serving Boston's black and brown communities. And it was directed by my favorite director in Boston, Summer L. WILLIAMS. >> My name is Sean Lacount. Uh I am part of the leadership team at Company 1 Theater and I use hehim pronouns. Yeah. Hi, I'm Summer again. Uh and I'm also a part of the leadership team and a co-founder at Company 1. And now we have the great pleasure to uh introduce uh the next bit of our program. We are going to dive into a conversation uh with Ali Nani from the president and CEO of the Bar Foundation and Sam Gil, president and CEO of the Darus Duke Foundation. Thank you both so much for being here. We're ready to welcome you to the stage. >> I think they're going to pull the chairs out first. >> I think they're going to come out first. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. of remembrance. Don't touch anything. >> So, as you do that, I'll just give a little context. So, uh, welcome Ali and Sam. The intended purpose of this conversation, it's to collectively think about the intersection of art and civic engagement. As part of this Boston Cultural Policy Summit, we're interested in exploring how we can inform the creation of our cultural policy for our local arts sector. How we might go about resourcing this important work in this historic moment. I think we can take a seat. >> Yeah. All right. Excellent. >> Are we all m >> everybody here? Oh, hey. Hi. Hello. Okay, so we're going to get the party started. Everybody ready? Got what you need? Uh we're going to begin very briefly uh by talking about what the the journey to your current position has been. Uh and so I'll start and maybe we'll go about 2 minutes each. Is that okay? Uh so again, Summerella Williams, co-founder of uh Company One Theater. I was four when we started. Um I uh so it's it's interesting in terms of like being a founder and like literally growing with the organ as the org is sort of coming into shape. Uh it has been amazing watching uh Boston's creative ecology grow and shift. uh as an individual artist, I am a director. Um and so also thinking about the creative ecology from that point of view, I'm excited by. But most of all um the thing that sort of keeps me here and invested and fully in the game is the the possibility of uh real critical palpable shift of change in culture um here and the possibility of what that could mean in other places. Um and I think this is uh you know 28 years is not uh short. Um but it's also not so long that we're going to see the evolution of all the things within that span. Um so I'm deeply invested in what are the other seeds that we're planting that are germinating that are going to begin sprouting in the next 10 years that will maybe help us get to uh where we want to be. >> Great. Well uh first of all, good morning. How's everybody? >> Good. >> Uh really want to thank the folks in Company 1, uh Sean, Summer, Karthik, the entire team has been such a a boon uh for all the arts work that happens in Boston. And I speaking on behalf of the staff and the and the arts team at at bar. Um you know, everything that Company 1 does is spectacular. And beyond the organization as Company One, it's really the community that you pull together. And I think today and yesterday is just it's a it's a a result of that hard work. So um I've been at the Bar Foundation for about eight nine months. Um I actually this is my second tour through Boston. Um I was born and raised in California but came here for graduate school in '98 and was here for about 10 years. And in those 10 years I um I did environmental work. I did public health work in Dorchester um and then I did uh immigration advocacy work. And those are all fun and dandy and great. But as I was listening earlier, I also realized that there were two other things that I did while I was here in Boston. One is uh I took a writing class from Grub Street. >> Awesome. >> Uh so I don't know if anybody here. So >> uh thank you. And I want to apologize because I have littered the internet with terrible grammar. Uh and the other thing that not many people know is that I actually did some community theater here in uh Boston. Yeah. and that career ended. But that's in fact I think how Giles and I met. Um so uh Bar Foundation you know we work on arts and creativity uh climate as well as education and have an initiative focus on uh racial wealth equity. Uh my journey to this job has taken me through 18 years of immigration advocacy ran the US democracy program at the Hila Foundation and then somehow or another have been fortunate enough to return to Boston and be a part of this community once again. So, thank you. >> Amazing. Thank I just want to echo Ali's thanks, Summer Sean. Company one, the the library, uh, Activate Arts, uh, the city of Boston, of course, bar. I think it's an incredible testament to the power of the arts that so many different organizations are coming together to do this and we're really proud to be able to to to stand with you all. I'll get you know the story of my life is not that interesting but maybe three quick three quick stories about how people um that are relevant uh to Dors Duke Foundation and to me um found their way to the arts. So I grew up in Minneapolis and I think it says an enormous amount about the power of the arts that a group of austere Scandinavians out on the plains were okay with a giant cherry and spoon being the symbol of the of the city of Minneapolis. Um it was it was it was sort of unquestionably essential to the to the fabric of the city um that we have performing arts and visual arts be a robot the most challenging versions of performing and visual arts be a robust part of the civic landscape. Uh second story, Doris Duke um uh was uh born in 1912 and when she was 12 years old, her father JB Duke died. That's how she came into her wealth. She became one of the wealthiest people in the world. And from the time that she was 12 years old until when she died in 1993, she was known as the richest girl in the world. And I think that says a lot about the way that Doris Duke encountered the world and the way the world responded to her. And it was very clear from her life that performing artists were a lifeline for her. She was friends with Martha Graham and Duke Ellington. She in Hawaii made friends with people that we wouldn't necessarily have considered artists then. Duke and Sam uh Kanamoku who popularized surfing, but they were the stewards of indigenous Hawaiian culture in this early colonial uh moment uh in uh in Hawaii. Um so she I think she could really live and be herself around performing artists and that's why performing artists remain an enduring passion of the foundation. And then the third story is kind of how we came into this work. And uh one of our signature programs um for over a decade has been something called the Doris Duke Artist Award. It's the largest unrestricted uh cash award in jazz, dance uh and theater, which I would not consider over capitalized uh fields uh within the within the arts. And what we discovered in supporting performing artists as whole people, giving them resources to do whatever they wanted to do with them, whether that was save for retirement or buy a house or start a new company, what we saw was the incredible transformation in creative innovation and production that comes from really recognizing this as a labor. And at Doris Duke Foundation, we're organized around what we think are the biggest ideas to realize Doris Duke's passion in the world. And it became clear to us a few years ago, particularly under the leadership of Ashley, that the biggest idea of all is to value artists as much as we value the arts. >> That's great. THANKS. >> Uh I'm Sean Lount again. Hi, good morning. Uh I am part of the leadership team at company One Theater. Uh and I was born and raised uh in Boston. Um to this weekend I've had a number of people ask me how long have you been at company in one where did you live before Boston? Nope. Been here the whole time. Uh and uh proud of that and uh a thousand years ago or 28 years ago. Um with a lot of really uh passionate and skilled people. I had the blessing of being able to start company one with the intention of a theater company that served the city uh the entire city. And at that time, a big part of what we were doing had to do with representation. It's grown, of course, into uh something that wants to inform uh social justice and uh many other sectors. And I think that relates a lot to why we're doing what we're doing here today. Um I appreciate what Ali said about building and gathering community because we couldn't do it without all of you here today. So, thank you for being here. We really do appreciate it. >> Um and believe it or not, I'm here as an artist. I've been a theater director uh for uh well, 28 years. Uh, and uh, I love making art. Uh, but I mostly love making art in this city with Boston artists and I love making new art uh, with with Boston artists. So, >> uh, with that, shall we begin? This is a conversation. It's not an interview, right? We talked about that. >> Um, and there are some core questions we're going to start with and, uh, the four of us are going to engage and hopefully um, solve all the problems by the end of the conversation. Sounds good. >> Um, no, of course. Um I think this is the first step um uh in a long process and we're happy to be uh to doing that together. So I'm thinking a lot about um Julia's MOA slide um that had um culture right and it connected it to health and environment and >> um and this first question. So uh the former chair of the National Endowment for the Arts, Dr. Dr. Maria Rosario Jackson uh speaks of an artful life in which the arts are intrinsically valuable and at the same time they play critical roles at the intersection of other fields of practice and policy such as education, health and well-being, community and economic development and more. You lead foundations that have a long history of deeply supporting the arts and all of us artists are grateful for that. uh and whose ultimate mission is to better society through investments in multiple sectors. Um from your perspectives and uh I think we should talk a little bit about the role that arts has when intersecting with these other communities, the other sectors and maybe specifically thinking about uh civic engagement, uh economic development and public health. So that's a mouthful. >> Yeah. >> But can I ask perhaps one of you to begin? >> Sure. Um, well, I guess I have just a couple thoughts to get us going and again, we really we really do want this to be to be a conversation. So, you know, I think one is it because because the arts are so underresourced relative to their social value, it it can be easy, I think, to get defensive about the arts and to sort of reach out for ways to qualify and quantify the instrumental value of the arts. But I think that you know the first thing is that the instrumental value of the arts is the intrinsic value of the arts. The the the arts make you healthier because watching art makes you feel better. Um we can put that in different settings. Um the arts aren't just something that can attend other forms of civic engagement. The arts are civic engage. you were just doing civic engagement, watching that incredible piece by those two incredible performers that was forcing us either to ask new questions we may not have asked of ourselves or to engage with questions that we have asked in a different way um than we than we have before. And so I I I think it is really important even as we seek to mobilize the power of the arts in different kinds of sectors and spaces that what we're searching for is not making the arts do something other than being the arts. It's really recognizing the sort of polifous value of the of the of the arts themselves. I think the second thing I would say is, you know, again, we're Doris Duke was really passionately devoted to performing artists and that's what we really think about and focus on even though there are so many different kinds of people and institutions that are essential to connecting us to the arts. But what what is historically what is so interesting is that you know there have been people making art as long as there have been people. But what there hasn't been as long as there have been people is the is this really democratic idea that we all get to enjoy art and that we can all benefit from the art and that the art can enrich all of these different sectors uh and realms and domains and parts of our lives. The reality is for the vast majority of human history, most of the financing for these incredible artists came from a group of people who thought that actually society was naturally unequal and that that because of their birth or usually because of their access to to to to coercive force, they had the right >> to enjoy arts and the rest of us had the right to get calories out of the ground um to make it to the to the next day. And so the the the it is really a recent discovery that we've made that actually if everybody gets a chance to enjoy the arts then they're going to pay for it and create economic value. If everyone gets a chance to enjoy the arts then our communities are going to be healthier. If anyone everyone gets a chance to enjoy the arts we will natively be more civically engaged communities. I think that's what's interesting is in devoting ourselves to performing artists, we're really committing ourselves to ourselves and to the idea that this is something that should be abundant that we should all be able to enjoy. >> Thanks. Yeah. Um I I I I noticed that same slide where you know kind of everything equal culture and it reminded me of something that I came to kind of realize in say around 2011 2012 when I was in the imig in the middle of the immigration debate and I started to make the case to my peers within the immigration space that we as a movement were having a conversation with the country around politics and policy when it came to immigration whereas the rest of the country was having this conversation about really culture and values. >> Uh so it crystallized for me at that point that politics is downstream from culture. So what I saw in that slide is that everything is downstream from culture. >> Yeah. >> In fact, arts is downstream from culture. So what do you do and how do you think about culture and uh uh um as an umbrella to all these issues that we care about and we we believe make a life's a person's life better. Um, so when we think about economic development of the bar foundation, we think about economic development in the context of the role of arts to create a cultural space that people where people can thrive. I mean, I've come to call our arts program as kind of a a very innovative real estate program in terms of being able to kind of create the partnerships to secure the spaces and to sustain the spaces for arts organizations and artists to not just produce content or show their their work, but actually to create community. When you think about uh um you know public health uh there's research that show that is that that will make the case that you know a a healthy neighborhood or healthy community is not one that's only about that's relies on a certain level of education or a certain level economic development. It actually relies on the ability of a neighborhood to have a community where community is working together to solve problems. And art as a practice often is one of those things that people work together on. Or even to bring it even a little bit more tangible, you know, I was been thinking a lot about the settlement that Meta signed, right? It's what $15 billion over the course of 10 years, you know, 1% of their valuation. But you put all that aside, that's actually a technocratic solution to a cultural problem, >> right? So my point is that culture and arts um go goes through everything. So what are we doing as organiz as artists as organizations as funders to be thinking about cultural strategies not just kind of issue strategies and that's really really hard to do because all of a sudden you end up in this space where it's hard to kind of figure out what you're saying yes to and what you're saying no to. Um but I don't know if we don't figure that out I'm not sure we're going to see the progress we want to see. I mean, summer, how do you guys think about this from the outside? You know, a company, why doesn't it strike me as a theater that occasionally engages in politics? It strikes me as a political a political strategy that happens to be realized through theater. You know, how how how do you confront this question when you see that slide? How do you think about that in the context of company one? >> Um gosh. Uh so, I'll just use a new era as an example. Um, and it's in a host of different ways. So, I love this notion that like culture is like undergirling it all. I like to say that like theater is our Trojan horse in order to like get in there and actually activate around an issue that needs to be addressed, something that needs to be looked at, something that we need collective action around. Um, and so, uh, you find a play that is about coalition building, uh, among two divergent groups. In this example, the play is set in 1895. And so, we're talking about a group of black women, and this is um, in the period where reconstruction is just finished. And so we're talking about vestigages of enslavement and people finding a bunch of different opportunities in the United States that were unparalleled before and then feeling uh the racial tension, class tension, and everyone wanting to put everyone back in the container from which they already like, you know, tried to grab them. And so a new era asks us to think about what it means to exist in a a coalition building moment when you're trying to figure out how do we go forward with people that we're not sure we can go forward with and how do we build the um trust and how do we learn and how do we operate. There's something about uh I think the the argument that is within the play that exists in 1895 that is very much a reflection of the conversations that were happening now around how do we go forward collectively. And I think the opportunity to use art as a reflection of coalition building in the past and how to to navigate it informs our now which then informs the future. So to me there's a art that is affected and influenced by history that is shaping the culture of now that feels to me deeply connected because the women in the play are asking for folks to build advocacy towards anti-ynching. So they are asking for folks to become socially engaged and active around something that is like happening right now and is a detriment right now. That is also a reflection of the kind of work that we try to pull onto our stages giving opportunity for people to think about it in a way that is it it is existing there but then we're demonstrating how it permeates here and now and also creating tools for us to do something towards the dismantling. >> Yeah. >> Phenomenal. Um I I I just wanted to say there was something um you said Sam about uh like the the the practice of um the art and in that public space and it's been commodified and gatekept and then suddenly a box was framed around it. I would wager that we are there's actually more of a return to the natural um uh opportunity that people found in connection in relationship culturally with each other to tell stories that were about the moment that were helping other people to understand how to navigate the times. And that feels extremely ancient to me. And there's something about tapping back into that more ancient, that more traditional, that more indigenous, that more um deeply cultural coded practice of theater and storytelling that is about social impact that I think is the natural form of theater that we are all asking folks to now come around to. >> That was a lot. Sorry. you. Yeah. What about me? I think um I think I want to be honest that this is a moment of scarcity and challenge and I think the answer uh is going to be the answers uh necessitate specificity uh and need to come from multiple entry points. And in that um I struggle with the idea of arts for art's sake personally. I I think that art has a responsibility to find its audience specifically. And when it doesn't, at least in my experience here in Boston and and some of my experience nationally, it defaults. It defaults to a white form and elitist form. The funding structures come from white wealth fund uh you know, white a productions, whether they're represent, you know, have representation on stage or not, often fund white audiences. And it's a cycle, right? I think that um we have a responsibility to be specific and clear-minded about what we're talking about. Uh we need to do and in the arts I think we have an opportunity for our work to inform. I think right now um I think the concept of truth is really mushy, right? Uh what tells the truth? I think we on a stage with uh two performers and a playwright who's invested and a great director have an opportunity to tell a truth to a a group of people sitting in front of us who are really here and really listening and can really be informed by that. I also think we have an opportunity when they walk out of that theater to provide uh not just opportunities for conversation but action >> and I think that the art actually uh sometimes disempowers itself when it doesn't think the convening like the right to assemble >> we have right the right to tell the truth and the right to disagree uh these things are not taken for granted now and we have that opportunity whether Whether it's in a, you know, company one, one of our first shows was in a a 40 seat brick box theater that is now the Beehive restaurant. Um, right. And or whether it's at the Strand Theater, which is a 1400 seater that we just saw on the video. Um, whoever shows up has the opportunity to engage and I think has the opportunity for action, right? And I also think access is enormous. Um, I think art for everyone is a little bit of I want that, but historically I don't trust that. And uh I think that getting uh more specific with uh and opinionated about what um work we need to see and for whom and we can we can name it. We can say this is actually for an elite class, right? That's what this is. But we could also say that's also equally important to this other thing, right? That's for the people. So that's what I'm thinking about >> that connects to the the delineation I think that you were talking about in the way that things sort of get segmented because um yeah may not be for everyone and not every access point is the same but everyone should have the opportunity to engage in a true form of something and not necessarily be left out of the conversation. And so how do we navigate this notion of like capital A arts um and not be um uh not disenfranchise something that doesn't have the same amount of polish as something else but is doing something far more impactful. >> Um yeah you want to say something for everyone was directed then to Ali so >> sure >> so so it was uh Dr. Jackson, right? some of the the um art as practice and what I took from and I read the the interview that she did there and I actually had Giles and Sansson and I had this opportunity to talk to her probably about a month ago about kind of the state of the the sector overall and it's really interesting because you know kind of coming into this role not having any real background in in the art sector what I found really fascinating by that conversation and from what she was saying is that art isn't something that for the audience or for a consumer, it's actually I think getting to your point, it's actually we are all artists and we are all creators in one way or another. So when I think about the creative economy in Boston and I really appreciate the research that the city has done in this space is that you know companies that we don't even think of as creative necessarily have staff who are creatives. Yeah. >> Right. So you know, Converse, Puma, New Balance, all these companies that are that have significant footprints here in the region, their staff, you know, they they depend on living in a community that is vibrant, that is artistic, um that they are bouncing ideas off of, even if they're just walking to the tea. So, I feel like, you know, as as we're thinking about this, it's yes, it's about the artists. Yes, it's about the organizations, but it's also about the community around those organizations, those artists that are artists themselves because their life is better um and and their work is more creative as a result. >> Do you want to add? >> No. >> Okay. I'm going to move us on to the next one. Yeah. Um, so the American theater, as Sean just mentioned, uh, is in a challenging moment and philanthropy alone is not going to save us. Um, uh, it's not going to be the most healthy solution to a healthy sector. And so from your vantage point as you think about arts and culture uh and you're thinking about learnings from that sector and other sectors, what are some resourcing models that we can look towards that create a more cohesive ecosystem at a systemic level? Um and then who else needs to be invited to the conversation to really help us get at it? say I'm happy to I mean I um I'm going to give a kind of unsatisfying answer but I think it's the I think it's a true answer um and it and it and I think it builds really on uh I hope Sean on your really nice exhortation about um about the need to think really specifically about who institutions serve and you mentioned something you mentioned you the the kind of mushiness of the truth. Well why why are we living in a moment which the the the truth is mushy? I I had the great privilege for part of my career to work um at a foundation that was one of the largest independent funders of journalism in the US. So you know I for 5 years of my life I experienced the sort of continued implosion um of the of the media sector and the the reason the truth is mushy is because a set of established authorities over how information is turned into knowledge and delivered to us have been challenged. Um, some of those challenges are rapacious and they come from other kinds of information services that want to say, well, they don't have authority. Anyone has authority, so use our products instead. Some of those attacks are really nihilistic and they're about they're attacks on the very idea that expertise should matter. Um, but I think the, you know, we're living in a moment where I think the question is not whether people agree with these attacks on these institutions, it's why they're allowing these attacks to happen. And they're allowing these attacks to happen because these established authorities weren't serving everybody well enough. They either are no longer delivering things that they used to deliver that people really rely on or they were never delivering those things inclusively enough uh as they needed to. And I think um you know when you look at the arts and you think about the pressure that's being put on the uh on the on the e the principal economic models of the performing arts including theater, think about the kinds of things that institutions are saying. So the first thing they say is their way of doing it is the social function. If you don't support my theater the way I do it, then you're not supporting the role of theater uh at all. If that doesn't work, then the next thing they do is blame the audience. Well, people don't appreciate the role of theater. That's why they're not coming. Um, so I I think ultimately the answer to the question of how you move from a a contracting economics to a growth economics is to make something that's really essential to people. And again, I think I think, you know, every we had a video, you know, you guys showed a video, right? Like people are desperate to see the sublime and to have it work on them and to change them. Some of the people who are most desperate are those who have been most shut out. Most shut out by the economic barriers, most shut out by the artistic and programmatic barriers, etc. Most shut out by um by the the the deliberate effort to serve a different a different a different audience. So I think it starts with that. I think that you have to that we have to make things that people see as essential. I think when you do that, then what you do is instead of seeing the total possible economic pie as being the one that served the old model, you discover a new pie. You know, that's that we're we're not going to succeed by trying to carve into more slices revenues that are diminishing for models that just don't engage people in the way that they want to be engaged. What we have to discover is a new pie. Um and and for you know those of us who fund the arts, you know, that means some really challenging questions obviously about whether our resources are just extending the expiration date of the status quo or whe whether they're really supporting the people and the organizations that are challenging our ideas of what the arts can look like and where they can be presented. I think that's true in theater. I think that's true in in music. I think that's true in dance, uh uh etc. for you all. I know it involves really wrenching decisions about what you're going to put on a stage. >> Um what you're going to produce, how you're going to produce it, who's going to be a part of it, where are you going to go put it. Um you know, one of the really amazing things that you guys have done is experimented with pricing. Um my sense is that doesn't solve all the economic problems of theater, but it helps you to learn something about the social problem that you're trying to solve. And if maybe if you can solve that social problem in a really really compelling way and become essential to an audience, then there's an economics on the other side of that. So, like I said, I don't think that's a very satisfying answer. It doesn't give us a road map from here to there, but I think it's a really true answer about what the future's going to have to look like. >> Thank you. >> Do you think being essential to an audience um means then that the viability of the work is uh reliant on ticket price? Like an audience is going to say this is a transaction that's worth my money. >> No, I think we I think we but we pay for the things that are essential to us. If those things are excludable, then we pay for them by buying a ticket. If those things are like air and water and we all benefit because they're more abundant, then we pay for them through public expenditure. That's what a public good is. But we I think we we pay for the things that we value. I think one of the really challenging economic dislocations that faces the arts is that we want it to be like air and water, >> right? >> And yet we finance it by excluding people from it through a ticket. that I I think the answer to getting out of that is to make the arts more essential is to get is is to is to is to make it so that we are banging on the doors of the halls of power saying we want more of this thing and we don't want it in that way that we didn't like. We want it in this way that made our community stronger. that gave me a clear sense of my own purpose and identity and affirmed that that helped us to move forward as a as a family, as a community, as a as a as a country. The fact this economic dislocation, I think, is a referendum on exactly what you articulated. It is a signal that the arts are not doing everything that they could be doing for people and for communities and for our society. That's a ch and that's what we can control. what what what producers of the arts and funders of the arts can control is whether we're going to listen to that challenge or not >> which underscores the entire as I understand it purpose of this gathering is to start to put uh range of stakeholders in within the arts sector and out beyond the arts sector in a room to start to think about okay what is a collective agenda to pressure philanthropy the private sector the public sector to really invest in the arts in the ways that uh um the arts are essential to Boston. uh and it is hard for any one of those sources of capital to say okay we will do it this way if we are sensing and this I'm here you know using the proverbial we right of that there is division within the ranks like you want this you want that you want that and it is really hard to I want to acknowledge that is incredibly hard to create a public policy agenda or cultural policy agenda uh um for any issue for any sector yet that is the challenge of the moment for the arts. Uh and when you you know you can we can talk about the specific examples that are out there in terms of you know uh how can banks finance uh theaters or artist organizations or artists based on future income or future you know ticket sales or content sales. We can talk about impact investing from philanthropy. We can talk about you know there are a bunch of things out there. Some of them may work better than others and there are a bunch of experience experiments being done and I think that there is a responsibility of this room and beyond to figure out okay what do we want right and and who what is the largest coalition that we can put together around that demand um and that's the challenge >> and to not take things for granted I mean I just think about how much we're taking for granted just in the way we frame the question I mean so we talk about I'm talking about an economic pie for the arts that's just not big enough. And there's someone sitting in the audience thinking like, well, we don't pay enough for healthcare in this country either. We don't pay enough for housing. We're taking for granted a really thin version of social welfareism. We're living through a populist revolt in every advanced economy that says that's not good enough for me anymore. Now, it's leading us to some very dark places. But at core is people saying, I want my society to invest in me and in my family and in my community more than it is. I want my society to allocate resources in a way that feels more fair and more just. It is really hard to imagine a world that's got a thicker welfare state. It's really harder to imagine a world in which public expenditure is larger and more creative and more multifarious. It's really hard to imagine a world where communities are able to make in collaborative uh rather than zero some ways decisions about how to fund housing and fund the arts, fund everything in that really big list. But if we can't imagine it in the arts, where are we going to imagine it? Where are we going to imagine? I mean, the amazing thing you in two minutes, >> we were all thinking about what does it mean to be black? What does it mean to be a woman? What does it mean to be a black woman? What does it mean to be a white person interacting with black women? I mean, in two minutes, the amount that my sense of imagination was enlarged about a set of topics that I probably spent a lot of my time thinking about in just two in just two minutes. That's how much the arts can enlarge our imagination. >> So, can we just ride this train for a little bit longer? Because you said something about discovering a new pie and like I'm I'm sitting with that and I'm sitting with like does the discovering of a new pie mean that we're still like going to put it in the same oven, if you will? Like we're still going to like it's still going to have some of the same base principles of how it's made and constructed. Like how do we get to that new thing without using the old funky ingredients that got us here in the first place? >> What? But I'm not going to try to continue. >> This conceit is collapsing. It's like a play. This conceit is collapsing under its own weight. >> I guess but >> why is the assumption we have to have the same ingredients? I mean, okay. Yeah. No, I I'm not. I'm saying like how I I I am fully down for this notion of like creating the new thing, but as we're trying to imagine our way towards this new thing, I think a part of the deficit in the conversation is we're using similar tools >> to like play the imagination game with. And so we have to disrupt all of it. Where does it start? And does it start from a place of um people want to understand that other people care about them? People want to see themselves reflected. People want to know that in their neighborhood they are known and they know the other person and that there's commonality. That we want an arts infrastructure that is about supporting our young people, elevating new stories, discovering something, and also a space for people to gather socially. like how I guess I'm thinking about what are those building blocks? >> What about you? What have you I mean what what what are some decisions that you've made as a director that you knew people either said or thought well that's not really theater? What are what are the decisions you've made that have shown that we can use different tools to create the sublime in ways that influence people? uh h can answer the question and sure and um so one demolishing the notion of that there's some sort of like grand thing that disrupts this connection and I think to me that is the answer to all of it we need to figure out a way to like fully demonstrate how to disrupt the falsehood of like I am over here and you are over there and somehow we are not breathing the same air but we are existing consistently in a state that puts us in spaces and places no matter how we try to reimagine it that still does the same thing. And so like really and I know not a single one of us truly has the answer but maybe all of us together collectively can figure out how do we do the thing that fully disrupts that notion that creates that division that separation the silo the delineation the purposeful marker all of those things that creates that dividing line dividing line that then changes I think the intent of what we're aiming to do >> cuz see I think the barrier sometimes to picking up a new set of tools is that you don't see the tools you're using as tools, you see them as nature. And what was so powerful about the moment in the video where the cast is out in the crowd singing >> is that it throws in the air everything I take for granted about what has And so I think to me that's what gives me hope that we're not necessarily just going to use the same tools that haven't been working. If enough people are willing to take risks that remind us they are tools and we make choices about which ones to pick up and oh wait a minute if I can pick up this one then maybe that thing that I didn't think was a tool over there I might actually be able to use that. I mean again I I think you know you guys are the nation's leaders I think in some ways in challenging our idea about what ingredients we're back to the metaphor about what ingredients can go into making something an artistic experience that's that is that is in every way sublime. How do we stop it from feeling like a risk? >> Yeah, >> I think Go ahead. >> Yeah, please. Please. >> Um, >> question. >> So, I along those lines, I mean, who in our society really thinks about risk in kind of a bottom line way? Banks. >> Mhm. >> Right. Anybody here represent a bank? >> Get them. Uh but if you're if you're trying to think about like partners who are trying who uh um can be challenged to be a part of a process to kind of think about something differently. Imagine sitting around the table with bankers who think about risk like in ways that nobody else here does, right? But they are the ones that are going to underwrite in so you know they're part of the stack. So I guess my point is like who are the partners that need to be brought into this conversation that create a different that disrupt our thinking right so yes we have to create consensus and kind of relationship in this room that's hard work and then you have to bring entirely new people and players and perspectives into the room which is even harder yet I'm not sure we have a choice but to do that >> I'm just thinking about these two questions I just want to ask you like as an artistic director, one, how do you create the conditions for artists, directors to take things that we that many would see as as risks and see that as the normal thing that should happen? >> Sure. >> And two, to Ali's point, what are those experiences where maybe the conventional gatekeeper said, "That's not the kind of theater I want to see." But some other audience said, "That's the kind of theater we've been waiting for." How did you get them around the table? >> First of all, I I am starting to love this conversation. Um, I want to say that when we I'm I the concept of essential I'm going to go back for a second. The concept of essential >> makes me feel very responsible to invest in local artists so that they have the capacity and the health to create essential art >> that will inevitably, I guarantee, not just affect culture, it will affect the entire city. Um, I think that Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So, I I I know what I know and I don't know that we're we're leader. I don't know. We're leaders, we're not leaders, but I know what we do here. And here on this very stage, we create full productions, right? And I just want to talk about that in terms of the conditions that we set, right? The library, it's free to all. We can't charge. We don't charge anyway anywhere we go. Our tickets are always free or pay what you want, right? Um, but that means too, David when he introduces he always says, you know, this is your library. Inevitably, that means this is your theater, right? So, when people come to see this and you can hear people in the back even during this conversation, right? There's actually people engaging the library, right? So, this becomes a fluid experience. This is no longer an elitist unwrap your candy, right? $200 Boston theater ticket experience. This is an experience. This belongs to you, right? and we have to create. It's not the ideal theatrical space. It's a pain in the ass to make theater in here, frankly. Um but but it's a blessing to be able to work in a space that has free to all on the wall, right? And to make work that is beyond the cannon of Shakespeare, right? when you know David referenced when we did a piece inspired by Shakespeare the the call to action was it was like the celebration of the 400th anniversary of Shakespeare whatever it was and we at that meeting we said what if we all made a decision that no Shakespeare will be done in Boston for a year that'll really make us appreciate what it's like that didn't go over well so instead instead we had um the opportunity to work with a young playwright of color uh on a piece that was inspired by that actually spoke to the communities within our uh community, right? And I I think that um so imagine if you will you saw the strand which is the same same model for us really but being at a public library which I I also think might be might be really connected. >> It's this is what it is. >> Um but the public library system by the way I think has a lot of answers to what um public art could be. Yes. >> Um, but imagine so folks come in, they see the show, right? We also want to make sure that or I don't even need to make sure anymore. This is one place we've been successful. We have partners who know that if they're tableabling in the back, they're going to get signatures, right? We have partners who know if they are um promoting their social justice organization in a specific way and saying, "Hey, we've got a rally coming up. We have a whatever it may be." They know that this is a space that they're going to see a certain kind of people right and it's going to inform it and because of that I think the library invests in us when they have invested in us thank you library uh the city has invested in us I think some of the foundations have seen value in that different approach but that is exactly I think your initial question we are trying to figure out how the health sector how the environmental conscious sector how the you know whatever medical in Boston uh it et you know every all of it how can we do work that actually benefits people who care about that as well >> with staying supremely true and specific to the audience we are here to serve right and because when it's not of value right or essential and people start complaining about the audiences I agree with I mean that's the that's the most true thing in the world right um why don't they appreciate my art and and I think that it's our responsibility to make great art but also to make art that is uh of value to someone's experience toward whatever's next specifically in a moment where things do and I not to be dramatic in a you know in the field of theater but it's a little on fire right now >> it's all a little on fire well I mean I think just two things I would pick up like I think one libraries by the way are a great example of an institution that is really not confusing form with function and that recognizes that the function is not to put books in a building the function is to be a publicly owned forum for bringing people together to acquire and to produce knowledge and that that needs to keep evolving and that not everywhere but in a time of real retrenchment in municipal budgets that's keeping some library systems healthier. So that's also a sign that it's it's a sign of a lot of things. It's a sign that even when things are on fire you can continue to innovate in ways that are really essential to people and there will be some return for that when resources are available too. It's a I think it's a great reminder. I mean, look, we're living in a moment where some people would have us believe that you have to live in a few square miles of the San Francisco Bay area to innovate and libraries have been a governmentr run institution have been among the most innovative institutions in civil society and our society at large the last several years. There's something else you said that I think is really important. It is the organizations that connect people to artists I do think have to be ruthlessly strategic about who they're serving and what they need and how to serve them. But artists, you know, it's not the same for artists. We're we're in a big debate right now in our country about whether the the right investment in science is to let researchers do undirected research in a lab or whether we should give them a goal to work against. And the kind of truism that gets thrown around is that most of the things that make our life better, the medicines, the drugs, etc., they actually come not just from one scientist that was pursuing undirected curiosity, usually two or three different scientists and labs in a far-flung places that were pursuing undirected curiosity that led to these sorts of developments. And I think that's the reason why when we think about artists, these these conditions for creativity are so important. And I and I and you articulated that and I really want to bring it out. For institutions to be essential, they need to respond to the audience. For artists to be essential, we need to let them pursue undirected curiosity >> and then we just need to be smart enough to grab it um when it when it emerges. But that takes resources that don't have a big ROI right away. You know, to get to get something really amazing on this stage. Artists need to be able to work in ways that don't necessarily provide some transactional value or opportunity in the office. >> But it goes back to Sean's question of okay, how do you how do you get capital how do how do you capitalize organizations to be ruthless and then create the conditions for artists to experiment, right? And that's that's >> back to the risk conversation, right? Like that how do we help folks to understand that that experimentation um is not a risk towards detriment? >> Exactly. Yeah, >> that's right. How do you what do you what do you what do what do you all do or what have you seen that are ways to commit to that reality of the making of art? that reality that the great theater artist isn't always going to turn out the play that's going to be award-winning the first time or right away that actually it's that undirected curiosity that over time will lead to artistic experiences that provide real value for for audiences are there what are the things you do to protect that part of what it means to be an artist >> and the the question the the version of the question I was going to ask is for the two of you how do you personally, but then also organizationally uh uh kind of help people move past that first bad experience as an artist. >> Huh. >> Well, only you had that in just now. I'm just >> Now we're just bringing stuff up. It's not okay. Um I I wanted to just go back to the question, your first question, and maybe we can dance around the answering. Um but for us the artistic experience is never just about what is happening on the stage. And I think Oh yeah. >> Um and I I think one there there's um real distinction in that for us. Um and I think that is where there is a real deep understanding. Um, and we mostly work in like the new play sphere. And we're talking about like, you know, maybe fresh fresh fresh play or maybe a play that has had like a production or two production and is still like being tinkered on with the playright in collaboration. um we build a model that I think yes uh may be anchored within the play's ideals central themes but we surrounded by all of the folks who are working in the city towards those ends and really work in partnership to demonstrate the ways in which being in that room on a particular night can help carry a piece of work forward. Um, and so one, it puts um a it it lessens the pressure um on being perfect and we can be less precious about that aspect of the art making. Not that it's different. Like we're not striving for less, but we understand that the container is wider and there's more to that experience than um the amount of polish that might be perceived. Um and so that's one thing. And I would say the second thing is because um and this has been built sort of over time but because of our like real desire to be in relationship with the people um in order to do that we can't pretend um that they're like uh the reaction the feeling that all of that goes away. And so we then really work to almost enhance the experience of that and to create a space where people can fully express. And I think sometimes unfortunately that full expression in a theatrical sense especially um is like frowned upon in a way and therefore the uh whatever that artistic offering is is diminished because of the way people are responding to it versus um appreciate it for the way people might be shouting out. They're like might be like really excited about the experience that is sort of laid out in front of them. So that's I think one of the ways we work to make sure that there's not a sense of um perfectionism that's going to get in the way of the experience. Um that the artistic excellence is high because of the community impact and experience that rides alongside of that artistic offering. >> I love that. Yeah. I I'll just add that I think that um we I think we art is really a tricky word, right? Because I think the product is problematic like the idea of art as a product that we you know we can fine art, right? >> Um and I think that the different I'm really interested I love that you're bringing the sciences in. I mean, I know that I don't know, maybe you both consider yourselves arts guys, but you also, you know, it's that's not necessarily the way that I would define either of you now that I know you're out here, but I I think that um the idea that you're bringing science like and what that that I mean, when you're talking about that uh lab decision to make it, it resonates deeply with our sector, I think, in how we make decisions, right? And I think about perhaps in that lab eventually somebody's going to, you know, find the cure to save lives. I think artistically the process is what's saving lives, right? And and I think that sometimes we just did this play a new era which we love, right? It was brand new from an artistic standpoint, a sector standpoint. It probably should have been workshopped for another year before it had a mainstage production. We decided, and that's no knock, it was a beautiful production. It was great. But we decided that you can workshop something forever. And instead, this needed to be seen now, right? Because this play was about coalition building, movement building, anti-ynching. It was about uh everything that Boston needs to hear now. And we were willing, well, it wasn't really even a conversation to be honest. Like the idea that we were willing to take the risk that the play wasn't quite done perhaps uh because it was done for the people we were serving and it was ready for the people we were serving. And I think um I again just like that specificity when we talk about artistic excellence we got to be careful because I think that the undertone is often a historical white supremacist concept. >> Sure. >> And I think we have been really it's been hard. We have to and luckily company one we've got a multi-leership team. We've got you know that's what we do. Um and we are able to look at each other and be like we believe in this right? Like yeah we believe in this. And sometimes we need each other right to hold that up against a sector that is uh defining itself in a different way right and it's you know in a moment where media is becoming what it is too uh that the importance of that to the art is no longer the same as it once was. And so who matters for us? It's the organizations that invest and partner and and attend the audience and the people afterwards who are like, I can't believe that my grandma didn't get to see this, right? I can't believe that my child didn't get to see this. When are you going to do it again? And that sort of essential quality. Well, look, it's it's very difficult to reconcile um the the the value of expertise, the idea that you guys have an expertise to be able to put on a work of art with the reality that there is no view from nowhere when it comes to something like excellence. And something that's obviously distinguishing the way that you're making work is that you embrace that it's a view from somewhere and then you mobilize that expertise on behalf that you have social aims that you want to fulfill and you're very clear that the artistic excellence is going to be judged with respect to those social aims. You're very clear that the audience experience that you're looking for is going to be judged with respect to those social aims. So audience another example of one of those psychological access barriers, right? that we don't celebrate a certain kind of audience response. We don't see a certain kind of audience response as being commensurate with the with the art. I had the great experience to see this summer. U the classical theater of Harlem did a fellow and if you've never been to the classical theater of Harlem, it's like outdoors. Um apparently it can rain because that's what happened to me during the entire production that uh that I saw. But you know what the really artistically um daring thing that they did was to put on a free >> version of Athell outdoors. And so then in the moments when words that I had heard a zillion times before in which there if you haven't seen a fellow there are moments where women are treated it's very self-consciously as disposable objects to hear a young an audience of people in their 20s be shocked at that >> was that was the most artistically powerful moment of the of the entire production. And so I think you know what what you guys are demonstrating though is these conversations can get very abstract. It's not abstract. You are really clear about the role that you serve in community. You're really clear about who you are trying to serve in that role and you are allowing that to determine your definition of excellence and to help you make a set of decisions that might feel iconoclastic in a vacuum that might feel almost shocking in a vacuum but to you felt like well what other decision could we possibly make about how we're going to do this if our goal is to advance this work and to support these people in community. And so to go back to the metaphor, if we've done all of that and that's our pie, but we still have to like it still has to go in this oven and that oven is still this container, right? Where funders are maybe like I don't get it. Like um and we're still like still working to figure out how to convince people that like this new thing is coming out of this oven, right? So I don't trust that oven. It's janky. But this new thing is come out of it. How do we get people to build their trust in that thing and then understand that thing in its new inherent value despite coming out of that old rickety oven. I think is that tension. >> So I think you're making a pie just to keep it going. Uh uh that's not about it doesn't it's not only art, it is the economy, it's health, it's education, it is the culture of a city or a region that is in that pie. And the opportunity is to help people um whether it's funders or private investors or public investors to understand really what goes into that. And just what you were talking about earlier of the process of making art, the process of a production is just as important as the final product. >> U and that's where so much value is that >> I don't understand, right? Like I don't have visibility into that. I don't I haven't felt those tensions and the ups and the peaks and the valleys of that work. And then really what comes out of it kind of regardless of actually you know the product and but that's really hard to do is to kind of get people out of that box and to really think about art as something beyond kind of the the the end state. >> I think to look I think we're going to we're going to fogg this metaphor. I think um what is innovation? Innovation is actually finding a new locus of value. So I think the way I would sort of cast the metaphor is theater has been presented what people get is a pie. What you're doing is feeding people. You guys are actually building something. You're creating something healthier than a pie. But people look at that and say I've never seen food in that form before. You're giving them a pot roast or what if you're a vegetarian you're giving them. I don't you can't win. But the you know a pie is a good metaphor. You know what? What theater according to a traditional standard of excellence is empty calories for what we need today, at least on its own. A dessert can be part of a whole meal, >> but it can't be the whole meal. And you guys are saying there's other food that we can eat here that's going to sustain us. But that's new. It's new for audiences. It's new for the traditional sources of finance. Part of the job of philanthropy is to bridge that gap between you guys seeing that there can be a different meal and people recognizing that that is essential and that that's what a me the way a meal should be. That's that's part of our job which is why bar should be solving this problem in bar. NO, BUT I BUT but um that's part of our job and and that's why and that's >> can I introduce you to our newest trustee? >> Yeah, THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S WHY that's that's that's part of our job and and and and that's why we're in this conversation. But I you know, look, you've called us all into this room. And so the question that the mayor's office has to think about and the question the library has to think about and the question that all these other sectors that I'm sure are represented our incredible uh audience have to think about is is what little can we give to be able to to widen the door >> to widen the oven door, you know, for this uh for this for this innovation. And it look it is you can you you're just never going to be able to innovate under conditions of abundance. Unfortunately, abundance is the gift that our successors get >> if we're able to just eek out of this system just the the the smallest glimpse of how the world could be different. >> I think that's great. And I think that we did invite this room and all of you to build coalitions, right? That's what we're doing. Arts activates doing that locally. We're engaged in it nationally. How can we build a coalition of organizations that are both theatrical, artistic, whatever it may be, but also across the city, across philanthropy that is going to do their part, right? Not solve the problem alone, but do their part with a point of view. You know, I did hear Giles say like our job is to listen first, right? And I appreciate that. >> And so I guess I'm saying please listen to this. I I think we want a strong point of view about the future of this thing because empty calories is never anything I want to have associated my life's work with. Right? >> Yes. >> I want to associate my life's work with something uh that had the actual magic >> that is hard to describe that I'm telling you feeds the people if it's done right with the right people in the right room and the right partners all around us, you know. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. I I want to lift up that the I love that you know this you said the abundance gets inherited somewhere else, right? And so we are also existing in the tension of uh knowing and and desiring that abundance for down the line and also dealing with the realities of a now and the pressure of a now and thinking about that. um and just perhaps a little bit of a reframe so that we are holding on the hope of the abundance for later but trying to figure out what are the pieces that we need to start building nutritiously towards in that direction. And I think this conversation for me feels like what are you know metaphor metaphor metaphor what are the vegetables that we're gathering here what are the nutrients that we're gathering and that's exciting to hear folks thinking about knowing that we're trying to get to this greater place of abundance and we also know that we can't continually punt to tomorrow. >> No, we can't. But I think I mean again I you you you opened you you you you welcomed us into this space with this incredible piece of art and you know I'm sure we all took different things and are still processing the the incredible dialogue that happened on the stage but like you know they're they're they're staring down a pending decision in pie v Ferguson. We know how that story we know what the next chapter of that story is and that story obviously hasn't ended um in some really really important ways even as we hope that we've made progress but you know what I heard was someone saying look if I can just give to the next generation the mere idea that separate is not equal facing the reality that that will be the law of the land then I've done something that is going to bend that arc toward toward justice and so sometimes that has to be it's frustrating but sometimes that has to be enough. And I don't think my reaction wasn't why didn't you do more, you know, my reaction was how lucky were we that someone in that moment of total scarcity, you know, had the fortitude to be able to hold on to even that and fight for even that. >> I hear you. That's so hard. But yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I think we're coming to our time. >> Oh, hello. Hello. Hi. Okay. Um, do we want to do one final thought? >> I think we can do a final thought. I think if anybody if if you I think first of all I want to um thank you both. >> YES. >> And and I don't just want to thank you for the vulnerability of being in this space as uh significant funders and I know that's a vulnerability. Um, I also want to thank you for the giving us the opportunity to push right and and uh you know before the conversation you said please do. Thank you for uh being true to your word. Thank you for having a real conversation. >> Thanks for asking us questions because uh everything we do is in process. >> Yeah. >> Thank you to the library for having us here today. >> Thank you. >> Um is there any Yes. Thank you. final thought >> any final thoughts that we'd like to impart uh knowing that uh we've already solved the problem so >> or something that you really want to lift up something that you want to carry out of this room >> I I will just go back to something that I said earlier and kind of underscore how hard it is to create coalitions uh on any issue uh and I think that in this moment with the amount of change that you know the city the region the country society is undergoing no one organization, no one foundation can make the change that we seek alone. Uh so the one piece that I would leave you with is um in that moment where you kind of feel like you're losing something as you know because you're going to be a part of a coalition, think about everything that we gain because we're a part of a coalition. Um because I just think too many times we enter those discussions as with a deficit mindset as opposed to really trying to think about okay how does this all add up to something greater. >> That's good. >> Just thank you for your leadership company. This has been incredible. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Hi for all. >> And thank you all for being here. We couldn't do it without you. >> It's true. >> Thank you. >> We did it. >> We did it. Thanks so much. >> Thank you very much. >> That was great. >> Awesome. >> Sorry, I just have some uh end of event performances. Sam, Ali, thank you so much. Summer and Sean, I love you all. Um, folks, uh, I, uh, just want to get through some thank yous because it takes a lot to put together a room like this and I want to make sure that we celebrate the creative labor, uh, that came together to support this particular event. Um, from our stage managers to our techs to our engineers to the photographers and videographers are holding it down. Thank you. Um, thank you to think outside the box uh for providing uh captioning. Um, I would absolutely say look them up after this. Um, is anyone from think outside the box here in the room? Yeah, back in the room. Uh, make sure to talk to Olivia. Um, they have been holding our feet to the fire rightly so around all things access and inclusion around these conversations uh in its fullest sense of the word. you all should be talking to them if um you were thinking about how to um better your access and inclusion in your events. Um uh speaking to all things uh civic engagement um uh we have our partners from Mass Road outside the table both doing voter registration and informing um or have information around the ballot questions. Massachusetts has nine ballot questions up for road coming up in the midterms in November. Uh if you haven't had a chance to look at that, please do uh engage with that material uh as we talk about arts having to be essential. We also need to be um engaging with the questions that are out there. Uh I would also encourage uh if you are able to to share those questions because I think there's a lot in there that's ultimately going to trickle back and impact um our conversations and our coalition building. Um, and finally, um, I didn't get a chance to do this earlier, but I just wanted to say the Arts Activate Boston has a steering committee, but this conversation actually has a host committee that's been working hard. We're at the midway point. Uh, this was the the plenary uh nature of the conversation. But later today afternoon, we actually have uh 120 uh artists getting together, artists and creative workers uh getting together and wrestling it out with funders uh with um union reps uh with labor advocates uh around three workouts uh uh three breakout spaces. Uh and as part of that, I'm just going to shout this out real quick, but the host committee uh is comprised of building creative power Massachusetts, which is a project of congrent cultural strategies and the Greater Mold and Asian-American Community Coalition, uh the National Arts Policy Alliance, um Mass Creative, uh NAU from NAU Consulting, uh Asset for Artists and Arts Action Consortium, um and Boston Center for the Arts. Uh and lastly, I also want to thank the Halran team for streaming this uh and for all of your support uh during this week. Thank you all so much for being here. We'll see you outside in the lobby for further conversation. Folks, if you have any questions about the afternoon session, please check in with our box office team and they can get you squared away. Thank you.