CPSC National Roundtable on Reversing Childhood Drowning Trends

So, good morning everybody and and again, thank you all for being here and for accepting my invitation to participate in what I hope will mark the beginning of a new chapter in our nation's approach to preventing childhood drowning. Uh I appreciate the time and expertise uh that uh that that each of you brings to this discussion. Uh around the table we have advocates, standards developers, industry representatives, public officials. You all bring unique perspectives and different experiences which uh is fantastic but uh we are are united by a common purpose which is preventing tragedies and saving children's lives. Drowning as we all know remains the leading cause of death for children ages 1 to four in the United States. Every year uh hundreds of young children lose lives in incidents involving pools and spas. Thousands more survive submersion incidents often with lifealtering injuries. Um, but behind every statistic is a child who should have come home, families whose lives have been changed forever, and parents who are forced to un endure unimaginable loss. For an agency like CPS-C that's charged with protecting the public from unreasonable risks of uh injury associated with consumer products, there are few responsibilities more important than reducing these tragedies. Yet, despite decades of work, national drowning statistics remain stubbornly unchanged. This month, the commission released its latest annual drowning report. The numbers vary from year to year, but the larger story does not. We are not making the progress that America's children deserve. That reality demands something different than what we've always done. It demands that we ask difficult questions. It demands that we challenge our assumptions. And it demands that we set more ambitious goals. Today I convened this round table to issue that challenge. Let's reverse the national trend in drowning. Not slow it, not manage it, [clears throat] not raise awareness about it. Reverse it. That's an ambitious objective and it should be because if these trends continue 20 years from now, we will have failed the families that we're here to serve. Over the past year, the commission has made drowning prevention one of its highest priorities. We secured the largest product recall in commission history, involving approximately 5 million above ground uh pools after multiple child drownings. Since January 2025, we've issued recalls and safety warnings on more than 5,000 drain covers that don't comply with VGB requirements. We granted a petition concerning child resistance pool ladders and convened a task force to address safety standards for this product category. Thank you, Carol. We finalized tough new regulations to remove deadly neck floats from the marketplace. We are prioritizing federal grants to support drowning prevention efforts. And we've intensified our focus on unsafe product designs, dangerous access points, and other hazards that permit unsupervised children to gain access to the water. Mr. Zak deserves credit for his role in advancing many of these matters. Together, these actions reflect an important shift. For too long, drowning prevention has been viewed primarily as a seasonal communications effort at CPSC. While public education remains a critical component of our anti-drowning strategy, and the pool safely campaign has reached millions of families over nearly two decades, awareness alone cannot be the end point. The question is whether our collective efforts are producing results that American families deserve. Government has an obligation to evaluate its programs honestly. We shouldn't assume that a strategy developed 20 years ago remains the best strategy today. That's precisely why I asked you all to to be here to share your expertise. I didn't convene this round table to validate the status quo. I convened it to challenge it. I want us to identify where the evidence is strong and where it's weak. I want us to be honest about what's worked and what has not and where the commission can make the greatest contribution going forward. Nothing should be off the table. If there are long-standing programs that should be strengthened, tell us. If there are approaches that have outlived their usefulness, tell us as well. If there are barriers preventing progress, we want to know that. One principle should guide this initiative from beginning to end. We will measure outcomes, not activities. The success of a drowning prevention uh strategy is not measured by the number of advertisements placed or the social media impressions generated. The only thing that matters is if they contribute to what ultimately matters, fewer children drowning. That's the standard that I intend to evaluate this initiative against. So, I'd like to leave you all with one question. If we were designing the nation's childhood drowning prevention strategy from scratch today, knowing everything that we know, what would we do differently? Because that's a key question before us. I'd like to introduce our panel. Joining us in person includes the Honorable Doug Zak, former commissioner at CPSC, Alan Korn, executive director of Aby's Hope, Carol Pollock Nelson, the owner of independent safety consulting and a specialist in pool safety issues, and a former CPSC. Welcome back, Carol. Uh Justin Wy, uh vice president of government relations for this, uh for standards and codes at the pool and hot tub alliance. and Lindseay Mandik, director of aquatic strategy pra and quality practices at the at the YMCA. And joining us online uh are Serena Bellamy, partners uh partnership and manager director at Airbnb, Katie Taylor, president of Aby's Hope, Megan Ferraro, the executive director of the Zach Foundation, and Aaron Levy the president vice president of government relations at the international council uh code council. I would also note that uh while we've kept this group uh purposefully to a a manageable size to facilitate a richer roundt discussion uh we've received and I hope we'll continue to receive written comments that are just as valuable to this effort. Uh but before we turn to our guest speaker uh our our the discussion uh I I want to welcome a special guest who is here today. Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida needs no introduction because her leadership and dedication to this cause is uh without question or parallel. Uh on a personal note, I want to let you know, Congresswoman, how much I enjoyed visiting you in Florida several weeks ago and thank you for what I thought was a productive conversation. Representative, you are rec recognized for five minutes to make some opening remarks. >> Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for convening this really important discussion. I I really I I have to commend you throughout your tenure on the Consumer Product Safety Commission and particularly as its acting chair. You you really have leaned in in the way that this issue really needs someone in your leadership role to do so. And to have this forum and this round table discussion today with the assembled experts and people who are really literally in the trenches every single day is uh is really how we move the ball and and the needle. So thank you so much and I'm really thrilled to be able to join you all today because drowning prevention and pool safety is so close to my heart. I've worked, you know, so closely with so many of the people around that table and it's an issue that's shaped my policymaking career beginning with my early days in the Florida State Legislature. So, it's an honor to speak with so many allies and the crusade to end drowning injuries and deaths this morning. And we uh we really have so much that we've accomplished, but we really have so much left to do. And I want to give a special thanks to all the water safety organizations in attendance. you continue to be invaluable partners in the fighting in the fight against the scourge of drowning. Um, when I came to Congress, I I made pool safety a federal priority. And I know that most of you are familiar with the story of Virginia Graham Baker and her mom Nancy, for whom the VGB VGB Act was named. Graham was, for those of you that are not familiar, Graham was a seven-year-old little girl. you know, in the the beginning stages of her life, she became entrapped in a hot tub drain, resulting in her tragic and entirely preventable death. And ultimately, alongside Senators Clolobashar, George Allen from Virginia, John McCain, Ted Stevens, and Bill Nelson, we created and passed into law the V Virginia Graham Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act. And it aimed to improve the safety of all pools and spas by increasing the layers of protection and promoting parental supervision. To help do that, it directed the Consumer Product Safety Commission to launch pool safely, a national drowning prevention education campaign. And it also required every public pool in America to install safe drain covers that prevent suction enttrapment and created a grant program that continues to this day to incentivize states and municipalities to adopt their own pool and spa safety laws and support education efforts. And after years of hard work and advocacy, in 2007, VGB was signed into law by President George W. Bush back in a day when we really had real bipartisan cooperation and it was and remains the the first and only federal pool and spa safety legislation signed into law in our nation's history. Since VGB's passage, we've allocated millions of dollars for pool safety grants and the pool safely awareness program and the funding has steadily increased in the last few years especially. And as you may have seen, the CPSC currently is at work to get another $4 million out the door in new grants this year. And I'm grateful for Chairman Feld Felman's leadership on this and for continuing to make VGB a top CPS-C priority. But the VGB law does need to be update updated. And while we've been successful at appropriating the funding for the program to continue, it's tough to make any substantive changes to it until we re revise the law. The VGB act is and will remain a strong layer of drowning protection. But after more than a decade, all worthy initiatives need to be restructured. I introduced a bill in the House to reauthorize VGB for 5 years. In the Senate, Senator Clolobashar did the same while also expanding the eligibility of grant recipients so we can include nonprofits like many of those around the table today and require CPSC to have at least one employee dedicated to drowning prevention activities. Passing any bill is a huge undertaking as all of you know, especially in a divided political climate. But drowning prevention is not and should never be a partisan issue. And I thank so many of you for your advocacy and support and helping to move VGB forward over the years. All the phone calls and emails and letters to members and community leaders, including events like this one, that's what inspires and triggers change. We're also seeing an influx of dangerous products mainly from China. And Chairman Feldman and I talked about this when he was down in my district uh that are flooding the US markets. Whether it's a flat or a faulty drain cover or above ground pools with footholds for children to slip into the water, we must continue to rid these illicit products from the marketplace and hold bad actors accountable. And that starts with ensuring the CPSC has all the tools and resources it needs to tackle this problem head on. As a senior member of the House Appropriations Committee, I'll continue to secure funding so CPS-C can stay ahead of new threats and integrate cutting edge technology into their everyday work. And we are still in the fight. I will never give give up. I'm confident you won't either. I'm definitely confident that Chairman Feldman won't give up. So, thank you again to everyone here for their commitment to ending the childhood drowning crisis once and for all. I'm still going to carry the banner on this issue because it's one more child's life that might be saved and that can make all the difference in a in a family's life. So, thank you all so much, >> Congresswoman. Thank you for those remarks and thank you for joining us today. >> My pleasure. Thank you so much. Have a good round table. >> Thank you. Let's go around the table and have uh the participants uh introduce themselves. Uh starting on my left, uh Commissioner Zak. >> Uh thank you everyone. Uh good morning and thank you to for joining this important event, the first CPSC national roundt on ch childhood drowning prevention. It's nice to be back here in Bethesda, perhaps for one last visit before the commission completes its relocation downtown. First of all, I'd like to thank my former colleague, acting chairman Feldman, for the invitation. Uh just to introduce myself for those who don't know me, my name is Douglas Zak. I am a principal at Invariant, a government relations and public affairs firm, but I spent five years here working at CPSC. And the nearly five years we worked together were quite an experience. I was often asked whether or not we disagreed. The answer was yes, sometimes vigorously, but we never doubted each other's commitment to the commission's mission, and our relationship was guided by that respect and ad admiration. The commission stands at the dawn of our nation's next 250 years, revitalized thanks to President Trump's mandate to embrace reform and the acting chairman's willingness to run with that opportunity. While serving both as the acting chairman's chief counsel and as a commissioner, I made aquatic safety one of my top priorities. I want to begin by recognizing why this conversation matters so much. Drowning is the leading cause of death for children ages 1 to four. Full stop. Let me repeat that because I think that's often lost in the safety community. Drowning is the leading cause of death for children ages 1 to four. It's a stark sentence. It is also a call to action. For too many families, a backyard pool, a neighbor's pool, a family gathering, or a few moments when a child is out of sight can become the setting for an unthinkable tragedy. I also had the realization that the commission's work on water safety was at a high point many years ago with the Virginia Graham Pool and Spa Safety Act. That law was an improvement and one that I know is important to the acting chairman given his work on it as well as to many folks here like Alan Korn and others. But we are now far removed from that high point and it is time to climb again. The latest CPSC drowning report makes clear the risk remains persistent, concentrated, and I believe partially preventable. From 2021 to 23, an average of 376 children under age 15 fatally drowned each year in a pool or spa related incident. Nearly eight and 10 of those children were younger than the age of five. The non-fatal injury data tells the same story of urgency. From the same period, an estimated 5,900 children under the age of 15 were treated each year in hospital emergency departments for pool or spa related injuries, non-fatal drowning injuries. About 4,200 of those were children younger than the age of five. Put another way, children under five accounted for 71% of those emergency department related injuries. The age pattern is especially important. Children ages one through four account for the largest share of both injuries and fatalities. For fatal drownings, children aged 1 through three represented about twothirds of reported spa and pool deaths among 15 under the age of 15. The danger is most acute for toddlers, children who are mobile, curious, fast, and not yet able to understand or manage the danger of water. For fatal drownings, the majority happen in residential settings. Among children under five, 60% occurred at the children's own house, 19% at the home of a family member, friend, or acquaintance, and 5% at a neighbor's residence. That means this problem is not limited to public pools or vacations. It is happening in familiar places, places where adults may feel comfortable, where routines can create a false sense of security. So today, I hope we focus on practical evidence and databased ideas to help bend these trends in the right direction. I know there are many ideas out there and I look forward to hearing and discussing innovative things that both the commission and more importantly the stakeholders gathered here and around the country can embrace. As a former American Red Cross swim instructor, swim and lifeguard instructor trainer, lifeguard instructor, and lifeguard, I would make a pitch to any parent out there listening. If possible this summer or throughout the year, enroll your young children in swimming lessons. Not only will they learn life-saving skills, but they will also develop a healthy respect for the water. In addition, I hope we can discuss ideas and analyze data, but more importantly, I hope we begin to answer the question of what we can do with these tools. How do we help parents and caregivers avoid tragedy? How do we support states, local governments, schools, communities, pediatricians, pool owners, manufacturers, and safety advocates? How do we make aquatic safety easier to understand, easier to adopt, and harder to overlook? There's one message I hope we carry through today's discussion. It is this. Childhood drowning is fast, silent, and devastating. But it is not inevitable. The numbers before us are tragic, but also instructive. They show us who is most at risk, where these incidents occur, and what kinds of safeguards can make a difference. I look forward to the discussion and thank everyone for their participation. Thank you, Mr. Acting Chairman. >> Thank you, Mr. Zak, Miss Nelson. >> Thank you very much, acting chairman Feldman, not only for inviting me here and convening this round t table, but because you have made drowning prevention a priority. I'm also I have to say after listening to your remarks, your opening remarks, I am really wowed by everything that you said and the desire for everyone to think outside of the box and in order to try to address this problem. I'm a human factor psychologist specializing in consumer product safety and I'm the past chairman of the ASM subcommittee on portable pools which is concerned with pools having a water depth of less than 36 in. That subcommittee met for the very first time in December 2005. At that time I was the chairman of the subcommittee and here we are 21 years later and drowning is still a leading cause of death for kids one through four. In 2011 I co-authored a paper with Brenda Shields and Dr. Gary Smith entitled pediatric submersion events in portable above ground pools in the US from 2001 through 2009. This retrospective data analysis examined fatal and non-fatal submersion events involving children younger than 12 years of age in portable pools at that time. During that time period, 2001 through 2009, we found that there were 209 fatal and 35 non-fatal cases reported to the CPSC. And I want to point out that these are reported incidents, not projected estimates. The majority of the incidents, 94% involved children younger than five uh younger than 5 years of age. In that paper we had three major conclusions. The first was that no single strategy will prevent all submersion deaths and injuries rather layers of protection are needed. Second, industry was advised to develop protective measures that to protective devices that are effective and affordable for portable pools. And third, a strong and pervasive consumer education campaign is needed to make consumers aware of the dangers of portable pools. Three years later in 2014, the ASM subcommittee had a meeting and for the very first time, someone on the subcommittee explained the data. They had done an analysis of CPS-C's data and other data to try to determine how are kids accessing the pools. And what they found was that um overwhelmingly young drowning victims used pool ladders as the primary means to access both portable and above ground pools. Most often it was an A-frame ladder. And it was then that I realized that childresistant ladders could play an important role in reducing access of these young kids into the water. So I asked the subcommittee to include in the standard a performance requirement for child resistance for any ladder sold with or for portable pools. And since 2016, the ASM standard for portable pools has included such a requirement saying that ladders had to be childresistant if they're sold for or with a portable pull. However, there is no test protocol or metric required to verify that the ladder is childresistant. There is no operational definition of child resistance. Rather, the standard simply states verification can be satisfied with a document review. And in case you're wondering how do we ever allow that to happen, it's because it was a compromise. And in order to get anything in the standard about shot resistance, that that's what the agreement was. While that subcommittee that I've been involved with for a long time on portable pools and the publication I referenced a few minutes ago are both focused on portable pools, above ground pools actually represent an even higher percentage of fatal drownings than portable pools. Nonetheless, there is also no requirement for childresistant ladders intended to be used for above ground pools. Last year, I petitioned the CPS-C to initiate rulemaking to require two things. first that ladders sold with or for the use with portable or above ground pools had to be childresistant and secondly for the development of an objective and measurable definition of child resistance. I'm happy to report and thankful to report that the CPS-C recently granted my petition. Thank you very much. And the ASM subcommittee still has the opportunity to publish a standard that includes performance requirements for child resistant ladders before a regulation is put into place. But drowning prevention requires involvement from multiple players, not just manufacturers of pool ladders. Consumers must not only understand the risk of drowning in portable and above ground pools and other pools as well, but they must accept their part, their responsibility for preventing drowning. Educating consumers to this hazard requires more than product warnings and instructions. In fact, product warnings have limited if any effectiveness for this type of hazard because they are s pools are such familiar products. rather to convey the drowning risk associated with portable and above ground pools as well as other pools will require the development of novel and engaging information and education campaigns. I am optimistic that ladders used for portable and above ground pools, again the primary means by which young children access these pools and the water, will one day be child resistant thanks to the commission's action. We have a lot of work to do to realize this objective and also to effectively engage consumers in their families drowning prevention. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh thank you Miss Nelson. Uh Miss Bellamy, you you are recognized. >> Thank you. Good morning everyone and thank you to the Consumer Product Safety Commission for convening this round table. It truly is an honor to be alongside so many people who share a deep commitment to helping to keep children safe. Um I am uh I manage the relationships with nonprofit organizations and safety experts that we go to to consult on different issues like preventing uh drowning of childs at pools and listings with uh hot tubs or waterfront access. And I think one thing that I'm always reminded of is water is very central to how millions of families experience travel. Um, for many families, access to water, whether it's a pool, a lake, or beach, is a top priority for creating, you know, a memorable family trip experience. And, um, especially during the summertime. And at Airbnb, our platform connects people who own homes with pools and have waterfront access to families who are looking for these amenities. And that means we can really play a key role in helping to promote water safety information and preparedness to our community to help prevent childhood drowning. Last August, in partnership with Safe Kids Worldwide, uh Airbnb launched a water safety checklist, and this was designed to help guests feel more informed and prepared before they arrived at a listing with a pool or waterfront access. The feature includes a pre-trip safety checklist that covers tips around active child supervision, flotation devices, and uh local emergency contact information. It also suggests questions that guests can ask of hosts about the water safety features at their listing. For example, is there a pool here? Does it is it enclosed by a fence? Does it have a lock? Are there pool safety equipment available? And on the host side, we also encourage hosts to provide details in their listing description about important safety considerations about their property and its surroundings. So, for example, in addition to the pool, is there actually a large body of water nearby to the property? And then we also run annual dedicated uh pool safety webinars and educational campaigns with safety experts like safe kids worldwide to educate hosts on industry best practices related to fencing alarms and active supervision of children. And through these campaigns we've been able to reach thousands of hosts and guests. And I'm really reminded of what Miss Nelson just said around, you know, through our work with partners and experts, we can really benefit um and help prevent drowning pre and help prevent drowning through cross- sector collaboration. If governments, nonprofits, and industry work together, we can help to do more to normalize conversations around water safety between guests and and and hosts. So, in addition to the work that we do with uh hosts in the US, we've also partnered with lifesaver lifesaver pool fence to help make safety equipment more affordable. So, we're offering hosts $100 off for pool fencing and as well as a complimentary pool alarm. So, according to the CDC, pool fence have been shown to help reduce, you know, child uh the risk of of child drowning by 83%. And this discount aims to help hosts access this potentially life-saving equipment. And we really encourage our hosts to take us up on this offer and get fences at in their homes. And then today we're just really eager to to listen and share more with the experts in the room um about where the highest impact opportunities here. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Bel. >> Thank you, Miss Bellamy. Uh Mr. Wy, >> thank you. And uh acting chairman Feldman, I greatly appreciate and PHTA greatly appreciates this opportunity to be before everyone here at this panel. Looking forward to the outcomes. Uh my name is Justin Wy and I serve as the executive vice president of advocacy and external relations for the pool and hot tub alliance or PHTA. I oversee our advocacy, external affairs, standards development, codework, and coalition engagement across the drowning prevention, public health, and aquatic safety communities. PHTA is a nonprofit representing thousands of companies across the pool, spa, hot tub, and aquatics sector. While we're often viewed as an industry association, we also see ourselves equally as a safety organization. A major part of our mission is making aquatic environments safer in reducing drownings through standards, education, code adoption, public policy, and partnerships. We all know drowning is preventable and remains one of the most serious threats to young children. That reality drives our work. One of the cleanest levers we have uh is water competency and across uh to high quality or or I'm sorry and access to high quality swim instruction is one of the most effective tools for prevention. Our flagship drowning prevention initiative step into swim focuses on expanding access to swim lessons and water safety education particularly for families and communities that have historically been underserved. Since its launch, the program has provided grants supporting over 500,000 swim lessons, helping children across the country gain life-saving skills in and around water. For us, this is about turning industry support into direct impact for kids and families who might otherwise lack that opportunity. We pair this focus on water competency with strong work in standards, codes, and safe design. PHDA develops and maintains national standards that guide how pools and spas are designed, built, and operated. And we work with partners to support the adoption of modern sciencebased codes like the International Swimming Pool and Spa Code or ISPSC. Code adoption is how proven safety practices become minimum expectations in communities. And that is a critical, not the only, but a critical layer in preventing drowning and other water related incidents. Education is another core piece. Since unification, PHCA has certified a large number of aquatic professionals worldwide, operators, builders, service technicians, inspectors, and others. These professionals translate those standards and codes into everyday practice and make decisions that directly affect how safe a facility is for families and children. Our goal is to ensure that technical competence and safety go hand in hand. On the policy front, we support initiatives that expand access to swim lessons, strengthen water safety education, and promote practical evidence-based strategies. At the federal level, we back efforts like the Safe Water Instruction for miners or swim act, which would help families use tax advantage dollars for swim lessons. At the state level, we work with coalitions and policymakers to advance water safety legislation, support adoption and implementation of modern pool and spa codes, and ensure state policies reflect layers of protection and access to instruction. Equally important is our coalition work. PH PHTA believes no single organization can solve drowning alone. We work closely with partners across the drowning prevention community, national nonprofits, health organizations, swim schools, parks and recreation agencies, and many others. We support National Water Safety Month, coalitions on public awareness campaigns, participate in legislative coalitions, and try to bring together stakeholders who might not otherwise be at the same table. Our focus is not just advancing our interests, but helping build a shared national strategy around layers of protection and expand water access safety education. Ultimately, our goal is straightforward. Safe swimmers, safer pools, safer communities, and fewer drowning tragedies. I appreciate the opportunity to be part of this discussion and look forward to working with CPSE and all of you to advance practical data driven effective solutions that save lives. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Wy, Miss Mandek. >> Thanks. Good morning. Uh thank you, Acting Chairman Feldman, uh Representative Wasserman Schultz, and the Consumer Product Safety Commission for convening this important conversation. Uh my name is Lindsay Mandik. the uh director of quality and strategy qual strategy and quality practices for aquatics at YMCA of the USA. Uh and I really appreciate the opportunity to be here alongside colleagues who I've worked with for years uh and who are working towards the same goal uh ending uh drowning, childhood drowning specifically. Uh at the YMCA, we approach drowning prevention as both a public health issue as well as an operational responsibility. Uh we uh collectively our YMCA's across the country own and operate a tremendous amount of pools, waterfront, beaches, and camps and we serve millions of children and families uh through aquatic programs giving us a broad view of trends uh and a responsibility to apply what we know in real world settings uh to programs and and put those uh learnings uh and evidence into action. Des as we're we've been talking about already despite decades of education awareness and efforts our drowning rates particularly among young children have remained persistent. Uh and from our perspective one of the key challenges is that drowning prevention is often communicated as a single action uh rather than a coordinated system of protections. Uh what we see working most consistently is a layered approach to safety which we've alluded to here today. uh but one that includes supervision, barriers, water competency, and emergency preparedness. Uh these layers are not new, but the opportunity in front of us really is to ensure they're consistently implemented, reinforced, and understood together in a cross-c center uh cross-sectional approach rather than in isolation. From a YMCA perspective, uh we're focused on first strengthening supervision behaviors. Uh we continue to emphasize single or simple actionable guidance emphasizing water watching and watching the water when children are in or near the water. Uh our current campaign is phones down eyes up. Uh really uh actionable but design designed to translate awareness into action. Uh second we focus on water competency as a protective factor. Uh we define water competency as a combination of skills, knowledge, and the ability to safety safely navigate water environments. Swim lessons alone are not the end point. What matters is whether individuals can apply those skills in real situations. And for the YMCA, expanding opportunities for children to develop and retain these competencies continues to remain a national priority and a priority for our local wise across the country. Uh third, uh we really focus on reinforcing systems of safety within aquatic environments. Uh we have a national membership qualification that all wise must adhere to. Meaning lifeguards have to be at every facility anytime there's people in the water. They have to be trained, tested, and deployed. They have to have a a written aquatic safety plan, and they have to follow all local uh regulations, codes, and standards. Um and that's that's just a membership in order to be considered a Y we have to do that. Uh in addition we really focus on lifeguard training uh lifeguard deployment and emergency action pl uh action planning. Uh we believe in highquality aquatic settings safety is not assumed. It's actively maintained through training supervision and continuous improvement. Uh at the same time we recognize there are challenges that require continue collaboration across sectors. Uh these include variability in access to formal swim instruction and safe aquatic environments. We also understand there's many differences in local regulations and enforcements um and and gaps between awareness and consistent behavior change. uh and finally the need to better evaluate which interventions are producing me measurable reductions in incidents. One opportunity I would highlight for this group is the importance of connecting policy, practice and measurement. Uh we have many proven strategies but adoption and consistency vary widely. Uh advancing a more unified approach supported by clear expectations, practical tools and shared definitions could help strengthen outcomes across communities. If we reconvene in five years, success would look more like an inc more would look more than more than increased awareness. It would mean seeing measurable improvements in supervision practices, increased demonstration of water competency among children, increas increased implementation of state and lo local water safety action planning using the US national water safety action plan tools uh and broader adoption of comprehensive safety planning across both public and residential settings. We do appreciate the CPSC's leadership in bringing together these diverse perspectives here. Uh and the YMCA remains committed to working alongside our national partners here at the table and those listening in uh as well as regulators and local communities to translate what we know into consistent effective action. Uh thank you and I look forward to our collective discussion. >> Thank you Miss Mandik. Uh Miss Ferraro. >> Good morning everyone. Thank you, acting chairman Feldman for the opportunity to participate in this critical round table on America's childhood drowning crisis. Discussing evidence-based approaches that could advance the commission's overall drowning prevention approach are very important. I'm honored to be here alongside lawmakers and colleagues in the drowning prevention community who are dedicated to advancing water safety and saving lives. For those of you who don't know me, I'm Megan Ferraro, executive director of the national water safety nonprofit, the Zach Foundation. In addition to my role at the Zach Foundation, I also serve as chair of the US National Water Safety Action Plan, a roadmap for water safety and drowning prevention strategies at the national, state, and community levels. The Zach Foundation was established in 2008 after the tragic death of six-year-old Zachary Archer Conn, who drowned when his arm became entrapped in the drain of his family's backyard swimming pool. We are here nearly 20 years after Zachary's death, because drowning remains an epidemic in America. It's the number one killer of kids ages 1 to four and the second leading cause of death for children ages 5 to 14 in the US. The new report from the CPSC underscores the ongoing crisis and the urgent need for increased action at all levels, including from the commission staff to reduce the number of these tragic and preventable deaths. According to the CPSC report, 70% of these drownings occur at residential settings, highlighting the importance of focusing our drowning prevention efforts where the risk is greatest. Through our work at the Zach Foundation, we have seen firsthand the devastating impact of childhood drowning and the difference that evidence-based strategies can make. Key among those are layers of protection, including isolation fencing, pool alarms, and constant adult supervision, which are proven to significantly reduce the risk of childhood drowning. However, despite their effectiveness, too many pools and families remain unprotected. Four-sighted isolation fencing is one of the simplest and most effective safeguards available. Yet, it is still not required in many communities. Pool alarms are affordable and widely available, but too many families do not know about them. And the most important layer of protection is designating an adult water watcher whose sole focus is supervising children in and around the water. Swim lessons and water safety education are truly life-saving. We know that formal life sa swim lessons can reduce the risk of drowning by up to 88% among young children. The challenge is ensuring that every child, regardless of financial or systemic barriers, have access to swim lessons and water safety education. At the Zach Foundation, we've seen firsthand the effectiveness of dryland water safety curriculum. Equipping children with the knowledge to stay safe in and around the water during the course of their school day. Reaching children with these messages is just as important as the strategies themselves. Our understanding of today's media tells us that over reliance on paid media tours is not an effective approach for connecting with parents and caregivers. And a shift toward more innovative targeted outreach is essential. While earned media combined with targeted social media campaigns and community-based outreach is a far more effective way to engage today's families and deliver crucial water safety messages. The commission has a unique opportunity to strengthen its efforts on each of these critical fronts. One concrete step would be connecting VGB grants to the US National Water Safety Action Plan in states that have VGB level laws, aligning funding with comprehensive coordinated drowning prevention efforts. We're grateful for the CPS-C's leadership and look forward to working together to ensure every child in the US is water safe. Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Ferro, Mr. Korn. >> Thank you, Mr. chairman and thank you for the invitation today and the opportunity to revisit the consumer education components of the Virginia Graham Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act, its pool safely campaign and other water safety activities here. At the outset and at the risk of continuing the mutual admiration society, I would be remiss if I didn't say that under your lead leadership at the commission, I have seen absolutely no degradation of the pool and water safety business activities of the commission. To the contrary, under your leadership, there's been quite a bit of activity in this in support of the CPSC's business activities in protecting uh American uh consumers and in particular children of drowning. You know, I pay attention to what goes on here and I mean that with a full heart. Uh a few examples and I'm not going to read them so we can get to the important part of the discussion. I'll just repeat some of them. is the largest recall that I have ever seen uh in pool safely on above ground pools. Uh that took quite a bit of courage and we recognize and appreciate it. I've seen the timely and effective implementation of the VGB grants over the years, including to note the $4 million that was just announced just a couple weeks ago. Uh your public announcement charging the pool industry, the standards organizations, the pool safety stakeholders to immediately address the ladders. Thank you, Dr. Dr. Nelson on above ground pools uh that too easily allow children to gain unsupervised access. And we heard that charge. I saw in your statement or recognized there was a quiet uh charge, maybe even a uh a veiled threat uh in it that if we don't act on it, you might very well get involved. We've already been talking ourselves about that very issue. And what seems like the never- ending recalls of online uh dangerous drains. I always carry my uh visuals with me. Uh I checked this morning. They're still there. So, we need to do a better job there. We do, however, believe that the pool safely campaign can be revisited and re-energized. The CPSC pool safety educa education campaign no doubt deserves substantial credit for keeping drowning prevention vi drowning prevention visible as a national public safety issue. The campaign has created a recognizable brand to an to an extent, built partnerships across aquatic industry and pool safety stakeholders to an extent and has distributed effective and well-designed educational materials to an extent. But in my view and in Aby's Hope's view, most of that effectiveness has happened in the past and in some cases way in the past. I think the campaign recently has frayed a bit, less robust than it was in the past. I and Aby's hope and I'm sure all of us here today have so many ideas. I have pages of them that I brought that we want to share with you today beyond what we think uh will that we will inject some muchneeded energy into the forward- facing consumer aspects of the pool safely campaign. I look forward to sharing many of those ideas with you once we get to that portion of the program. Thank you, Mr. Cornin. Thank you for being here. Uh let's turn uh to uh two of our online uh participants. Uh let's let's go to uh uh Erin Levy. Mr. Levy, vice president of the uh uh government relations at the International Code Council. >> Mr. Chairman, good morning. Can you hear me? Okay. Is my audio coming through? >> We can. Thank you very much. >> Great. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today and I apologize that I can't be there in person due to a personal conflict this afternoon. On behalf of the International Code Council, I want to thank the Consumer Product Safety Commission for its long-standing leadership in advancing consumer safety and in particular for its continued partnership at helping prevent childhood drownings. The International Code Council is the nation's leading developer of model building safety codes and standards. Our organization is supported by more than 80,000 members nationwide, including building officials, fire officials, architects, engineers, builders, contractors, manufacturers, and other professionals who are united by a common sense of mission of ensuring the safety, resilience, and sustainability of our built environment. The International Swimming Pool and Spa Code has become the nation's leading model code for swimming pool and spa safety. Today, it has been adopted in 33 states, DC and Puerto Rico, protecting approximately 246 million Americans, roughly 72% of the US population. That code is a tremendous example of what can be accomplished through collaboration. The code council is proud to partner with Justin and his colleagues at the pool and hot tub alliance in the development of this code. Together, our organizations combine ICC's expertise in model code development and adoption with PTHTA's deep technical knowledge of the pool and spa industry to produce a document that is practical, technically sound, and grounded in the latest safety science. The 2027 edition represents another significant step forward in addition to design and construction requirements and now includes maintenance and operational provisions making it the most comprehensive model pool and spa safety code in the United States. I want to echo something that I heard my colleague Justin say. We recognize that building codes are not the solution to childhood drowning. As a certified emergency manager with 15 years of experience at FEMA, I think I can say confidently from a public safety standpoint, we don't believe there is a single solution. Preventing these tragedies requires constant adult supervision, public education, swimming instruction, product safety, effective emergency response, and consumer awareness. But building codes are an indispensable part of that larger strategy because they provide passive always present layers of protection that do not be depend on human behavior alone. At its core, the spa the international spa and pool code is built around a simple principle. There should never be a single line of defense against drowning. Instead, the code requires multiple redundant layers of protection that work together to reduce risks. Those protections even begin even before a pool is completed by requiring temporary barriers around construction sites. Once a pool is in service, the code requires protective barriers, self-closing and self-latching gates, childresistant latches, and where a home forms part of the barrier, water hazard entrance alarms on doors and accessible windows. For above ground pools, ladders and steps must be secured or removed when not in use. The code also addresses other significant hazards. It requires slip slip resistant walking services to reduce fall injuries and incorporates the requirements of the Virginia Graham Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act through nationally recognized suction entrapment prevention standards. Of course, even the best code can only protect families if it is properly implemented and enforced. That is why local building code officials play such an indispensable role. Their plan reviews and inspections ensure these life safety saving safeguards are installed correctly the first time before a pool is put into service. Mr. Chairman and my colleagues, let's face it, code enforcement is sometimes a little misunderstood. Uh it this isn't about shutting down the neighborhood pool or shutting down grandma's pool when it's 98 degrees outside and the kids just want to go swimming for the summer. It's about making sure those pools, spas, and the areas around them are constructed safely and in accordance with the code from the very beginning so families can enjoy them with confidence. Federal investment that supports state and local code enforcement training and implementation are therefore critical components of any comprehensive pool strategy. Mr. Chairman, we greatly appreciate your organization's participation in the code development process and our long-standing partnership with both the commission and Justin's team at the pool and hot tub safety alliance. We look forward to continuing to continuing to work together to make pools and spa safer for children and families across the country. Thank you and I would be happy to answer any of your questions. >> Mr. Levy, thank you and thank you for being here. Uh, last but not least, let's turn to Katie Taylor, the president of Aby's Hope. >> Can you hear me? >> Yes, we can. >> Wonderful. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for inviting me here today virtually and giving us uh my husband Scott and myself a chance to revisit the consumer education work tied to the Virginia Graham Baker Pool and Spa Safety Act and the Pool Safely Campaign. Uh I am Katie Taylor and we founded Aby's Hope almost 20 years ago. 19 years ago today, I was in the ICU with my daughter learning what an entrapment was. Um, after losing our daughter, the foundation began and our goal was simple and urgent, to help the commission and anyone who would listen prevent enttrapment deaths in pools and spas. Aby's story along with Graham Bakers and Zachary Con helped push the BG back BGB act forward and the law changed how pools and spas are built and maintained in this country. It remains one of the clearest examples of government stepping up to protect children. The CPSC often shares and we're proud to repeat it that since the VGB Act passed, there has not been a single entrapment death in a compliant public pool or spa. Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you personally since you've been around since the inception of this law and you have continued to stand behind it and that matters. But even with all that progress, we know that there's more work to do. The CPSC's recent report makes it painfully clear. Unintentional injury is the leading cause of death for children 14 and under in the United States. Number one is motor vehicle crashes. And we have an entire federal agency, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, dedicated to that risk. Drowning is number two. And for children 1 to four, drowning is number one. Yet, there is no single federal agency with hundreds of millions of dollars focused solely on drowning prevention. What we do have is the commitment of the CPSC, and we know your mission is broad and touches every corner of consumer safety. Still, drowning deserves a stronger, more visible effort that reflects the size and urgency of the problem. Consumer education is one of the most powerful layers of protection we have. It saves lives. This round table is a meaningful step forward reimagining how the pool safely campaign can reach families in ways that can truly make a difference. And I want to close by simply saying thank you. Thank you for inviting me, for making space for this conversation, for continuing to care about an issue that has shaped my family's life forever. I'm hopeful of what we can accomplish together. We've already seen what's possible when people commit to protecting children, and we can do it again, and we can do more. So, thank you, >> Miss Taylor. Thank you uh again for being here and uh for all of the the the work that you and your foundation have uh put towards advancing this cause over the years. Um I'd like to turn to the roundt portion of uh of of of today's meeting. Um and as I said at the outset uh I I I truly do want to treat this as a roundt discussion. Uh so I will be uh light on on moderation and and hope that we can uh truly have some uh uh cross and collaborative dialogue uh today. Uh but to start with the question that I raised uh in in my opening remarks and specifically with respect to the the pool safely campaign which I know is something that CPSC is interested in uh re-examining and strengthening uh uh to to make sure that it it it uh remains effective. But if we were designing the nation's pool safely drowning prevention strategy from scratch today, what would be the first thing knowing everything that we know now that you'd do differently? Mr. Korn, I'm curious to hear your thoughts. >> Uh three three things. Uh first, I I think that the agency is sitting on a gold mine. Uh there is something that we all almost everybody in this room signed when we joined the pool safely campaign. It's called the pool safely collaborators. I remember the form. It looked kind of legal. We are willing to help in any way, shape, or form. There are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of collaborators that have signed that form. I ran through the list this morning. Firefighters, industry, families. Uh I brought my families united. Every single one of them are collaborators. uh stakeholders, public policy officials, uh pool industry officials, but that's kind of the last we ever heard of that. I I think we need uh uh collaboration to be collaboration and I think you should activate that network of people to do and I've got lots of ideas on that which we can talk about tonight today and more. One idea I'll just do very briefly. If we have probably about a thousand collaborators out there, why not three times a year have all of us do the exact same message? We can talk about what those messages are in all the forms and all the platforms and all the abilities from old media newspaper to new media influencers to get one message. Uh two, and I'll be quick and then and then we'll go. I think it's been very much an awareness-based campaign instead of behavior uh campaign. So pool fencing, pool alarms, including the new technologies. Um uh Lindsay has been looking at the AI supported alarms and I think she's thinking they might be one a very good solution. I've seen them also and they seem to be very good. Uh so uh behavior change and then and then finally the technology aspect of this keeping having all our stuff keep up with the technology that's out there. >> Thank you Lindsay. I see you nodding in agreement. Did you have anything that you wanted to add? >> Agree with what Alan say there. Uh but in addition to exploring some of the new technologies out there both for public and private pools I think that is a gamecher. Um and if ahead um in the in that um but I would I would also echo what he said about an outcomesdriven national strategy that really aligns all of us uh partners around one common goal. Uh we know that every child deserves access to water competency education uh and multiple layers of protection. Full stop, right? Um they deserve swimming lessons and they deserve layers of protection. um and and uh too much of our work remains fragmented and if we can pull folks together for one coordinated effort, I think that is u the direction that we need to go uh to have a coordinated system that measures progress uh consistently across communities. >> I appreciate that, Mr. Wy. You know, something else that that comes to mind is looking at what states are doing, tracking what the outcomes are of of those state initiatives and taking those best practices and implementing them across the the country. Kind of, you know, we always look to states as being the the petri dish for democracy, right? I mean, this is another one of those things that you have 50 different states doing 50 different things. Some of them have uh been wildly successful, others not so much. Uh but I I think really taking those and analyzing them and and kind of pushing them out as best practices would be very helpful. It's great. >> Miss Ferrara, >> going back to um the question you asked at the beginning, what would we change now knowing what we know now? We now have the first US national water safety strategy that sets recommendations at the national level but provides guidance for states, counties, and communities to develop their own water safety strategies. They include uh VGB related recommendations. They include isolation, fencing, and alarms, which relate to what we know is the highest rate of drowning is those 1 to four year olds in those pools that don't have layers of protection. So, if I were to turn back time, um I would say, you know, let's let's look at this. Let's see how we can align VGB grants to implementing this water safety strategy at the state, county, and community level. And um I think what we'll find is consistency to Justin's point um from stateto state and um the ability to activate that grassroots strategy that Allen mentioned um earlier. >> Yeah, that's uh that that's very helpful. >> Um so >> can I jump in there? Uh >> you asked the question what would we do differently? How would we design it differently? The answer is simple completely. It's become ineffective and that's because the landscape has changed, how we receive information, how we communicate with one another. But I think there's an important component that has remained relatively consistent, but certainly underutilized in this education part of the campaign. The CPSC, as we've often said, is a small but mighty agency, but unfortunately, people tend not to know of it until tragedy has stricken. Who do they know? They know their pediatrician. they know their school teachers. I think the CPS-CE can play can play a very critical convening role across states to bring those stakeholders together with parents who trust those people on a day-to-day basis to educate them. We've all said many of the same things, which is this is I I did the math. Uh as a lawyer, that's a a dangerous thing, but roughly 85% of these tragedies are happening at home pools. either a neighbor's pool, the person's pool, so on and so forth. And so, you know, all these layers of protection are absolutely necessary, but the first layer of protection is child who skirts away and the realization how dangerous that can be. And I don't know that that message is communicated effectively by trusted messengers. And again, that's where pediatricians and even before, you know, uh while pregnant and scaring uh uh uh parents to be teachers throughout the process, preschool teachers, grade school teachers. So that message is communicated not just to parents but to brothers and sisters to avoid or to to start to move that trend downward and and getting that message out rather than the once a year uh pool safely campaign as as well intended as it was in the past I just think misses the mark at this point in time >> particularly with being a once a year seasonal exercise in instead of a full court press consistent messaging coming from the agency >> and again the agency the commission has the an ability to be a convenor at the national and state level to be to work with the laboratories of democracy and local governments to to stress that a lot of people until I got here I didn't realize I thought there were so many other dangerous issues and there are other dangerous issues regarding children but by far again as we've heard time and again today it's from ages one to four it's the largest most significant cause of death and that trend has just continued persistently >> and represents the the single largest body of uh of of of area that if we were to push uh we could truly move the needle in terms of reversing the the the trends of accidents and fatalities that we're seeing in the United States. And one additional and this is the optimism for the future. Uh uh Miss Mandik mentioned and I think Miss Ferraro mentioned AI. Uh parents are exhausted. They have small children. They're tired. AI cameras that can detect motion I think are a future hope. I've not seen that that technology is yet completely viable. But that's the sort of thing that as you know as we roll out in 5 10 years and this environment looks to grow and and be different where there's to me some real opportunities for working with the stakeholders to see if there's a safety level there because I think in all of these homes none of those drownings were intended. They were well-intended people. They lost track of a child which is easy to have happen. anyone who's been around a child, they they can slip through and you know, you and I used to see those daily death reports, it was often a matter of moments and that alarm, those layers of protection, adding the AI feature that sees something in the pool that's that seems to be grasping for air. Uh hopefully that's the next level of technology that can help improve that that trend downward. >> I see Dr. Nelson uh nodding in in agreement, I think. Uh and I know that you've got significant background studying exactly these these types of issues. So, I'm curious to hear your perspective. >> Thank you. Everything that I'm hearing, I feel like I'm nodding along and and in agreement with everything that everybody's saying. So, I'll just mention a couple of things. First of all, because you just said something um most recently. Um I think you really hit the nail on the head when you talk about, you know, something we all know, which is that these incidents happen in a moment and parents don't realize it and they're good parents and all this. Um I think that you know I was looking over some questions that you had sent around and you had asked what's the single biggest reason for childhood drowning rates that they've remained persistent. And in my opinion it's the consumer's failure to understand the micro behaviors that lead to drowning. As a human factor psychologist, one thing that we do when we're trying to understand something is we take the macro behavior drowning or the macro issue which is drowning and we try to break it down into all these tiny little steps so we can understand where where's the failure happening. Um I think that for a lot of parents they may incorrectly assume that they can stop a drowning if it were to occur because they can use their senses. So they could see a child climbing a ladder or getting into a pool. they would hear the splash. They'd hear someone scream, but as many people have said, it's it's often much more subtle than that. It's often silent. Um I think that the steps leading up to um how adrena occurs is something that everybody needs to talk about a little bit more. So, for example, and I someone already mentioned this, it may have been you. Um let's say you have a family and they're um they were in the pool all day long. They've come in, they've had dinner, the kids are upstairs in bed. One thing that we know from the incident data from CPS-C's excellent incident data is that sometimes you'll have a child like a three-year-old looks out the window, sees a toy floating in the pool. That's attractive to them. And so they quietly go downstairs, they unlock the sliding glass door. A three or fouryear-old can do that. They'll open the door, they'll go out, they'll climb the ladder, they get in, they drown. The parent probably can't doesn't even anticipate that, especially if none of those behaviors have happened before. So they may know that their child can open and close a sliding grass door, but usually it takes a lot of effort and then they go over and they help them do it. They may not know that the child has observed how they unlock that door. And certainly when it comes to an A-frame ladder, you know, if anyone's been on an A-frame ladder, you know that the steps are narrow. And when a child goes to climb that with supervision, the parent is right there helping thinking, "Oh, they'll fall. They'll their foot will miss." So parents fail to realize the attraction of the floating toys in the pool, that young children can observe and understand how to unlock a door and get out that door and that they can climb the ladder. When these details are not known to parents, they think that they have better control over the situation that they than they do. And then can I add one more thing if that's okay? Um be many people have talked about a question that you have put out about, you know, if you could launch one major initiative, what would it be? And some of you have touched on this already, which is why I'm piggybacking on what you said. Um I think that it was Megan that said, uh personalized targeted outreach is what's necessary. Um and this is something I've spoken about before um in rec uh training program for caregivers. This to me would be a huge win for the CPSC and its partners. And I would recommend the partners being AAP and CDC and other stakeholders with knowledge in the field. A national training program may sound radical like big brother, but the truth of the matter is we don't let people drive a car unless they've passed the test. We don't even let parents bring a baby home from the hospital unless there's a car seat installed in the car properly. Um, so this is not I I don't think that this is that out there. Um, I think that a national training program is not necessary to cover every potential hazard because there's a hazard everywhere. But for those critical hazards that we don't seem to be able to get our arms around adequately and we think that we've made the products as safely as they can be or we're in on progress to do that, then it's about the education of consumers. And it's definitely not about warnings. People aren't reading warnings on products that are so familiar. Um, and they're not, you know, getting the information necessarily from the delivery systems that we want them to. Um, and so I think that a training of this type is necessary for any critical hazards like drowning and also like infant sleep safety. And the training, I won't go into all the details, but it would be delivered via a tablet or a personal computer by a tablet while you're waiting at the pediatrician's office. you fill out forms and while you're waiting there and it would have just brief vignettes or brief scenarios that describe the hazard in an engaging way and then um have questions at the end and the consumer needs to answer the questions correctly. That tablet can then go into the pediatrician's office where the it gives the pediatrician a starting place instead of starting at the very beginning. They can look at what they got wrong, what they got right and it introduces a question. This information can also be delivered um on a home computer. The advantage to this type of training is it is personalized. It can be done in different languages. It can be using um I don't know if avatar is the right word, but somebody that looks like the recipient of the information. It can be updated and you could test the knowledge at the end. Um the other thing is the Trump account, which I understand is $1,000 for every um child born in the United States. Sarah, my colleague Sarah Newans was mentioning to me that when I spoke at the Baby Safety Alliance about two or three weeks ago, someone in the audience talked about the possibility of tying such a training and passing such a training with the Trump Act. So, instead of just giving $1,000, require that that the parents have gone undergone this type of a training. >> I I I appreciate that perspective and uh I thank you for those comment. you you did raise something that I I did want to circle back to, which is listen, I I don't think it's a coincidence that uh we've convened this round table uh uh today uh uh shortly after the the commission released its uh its 2026 uh uh annual drowning statistics. We don't have a great story to tell. Uh those th those submersion report consistently year in and year out. uh the numbers fluctuate uh but they do remain stubbornly stuck uh at at an unacceptably high level. Um and I'm I'm curious in particular to hear the perspective from uh the the two family foundation advocates that are uh three family foundation advocates that are here today Aby's Hope and and the Zach Foundation. You know what what's your view? you you have been at this a while uh and and have a a long-term view on uh childhood drowning rates just remaining persistent throughout this time. Is there a single biggest reason we can identify as to why we're not seeing movement in the right direction? >> Uh I'm not smart enough to answer that question, but I am smart enough to suggest possible answers to that question. You said the story is not a good one to tell. Well, that's okay. Meaning that's an opportunity to tell the bad story. And we've got families out there who are courageous and selfless, not selfish, selfless, who are willing to talk about their tragedies and how to prevent other families from experiencing this horrific experience. In fact, we've got a whole organization of those families. So it it's kind of a consistent theme that the agency is sitting on a gold mine. Let's utilize it. Let's coordinate it. There's always a vacuum of leadership I think just naturally. But you based on your past uh uh role in all this could fill that vacuum for us and coordinate all the good ideas here to start moving the needle. So, >> I appreciate that suggestion, Miss Ferrara. >> So, what I'll say is um a couple of things. The first of which is a a comment that Alan made earlier, or maybe it was Katie, that there are no reported drain entrapments in VGB compliant pools. That is something the CPSC should um be proud of. Um what your data does show us is that these children are drowning in backyard residential pools, most likely in pools that do not have isolation fencing. We know that isolation fencing works. So, I think this is an opportunity for the commission to refocus its efforts to of course continue to include VGB compliance um but to double down on isolation fencing. You talked a bit earlier about um educating parents. Um I have four kids. I know that um my kids know to put their seatelt on when they get in the car. They know to put their helmet on when they get on their bike. They know to hold mom's hand before they cross the street. they need to be taught to not go near water without an adult. And of course, that only works if other layers of protection are in place, like isolation fencing. Um, but it is the idea of educating parents where they already are in a pediatrician's office is an important step and one that I think the commission can take real leadership on. >> I think that's an excellent suggestion. Uh, Katie Taylor, is anything that you'd like to add? >> I see that you're >> I'm just gonna My hand has been up. Sorry. I was very excited when Mr. Zak's comments when he started um as he began in his opening statement telling the story we all know about drowning is the leading cause of death in 1 to4 and that people in the safety community still aren't aware of that but how about people that aren't in the safety community and that's where it piggybacks on what Allan and Megan and so many of my colleagues have said you have to reach these people at the pediatrician's office you have to reach them through the Department of Education, through preschool, through nursery school, where they're in a safe space where it's not be they're not being lectured. It's just part of the curriculum. It's part of what you're learning. Like you're learning about how you're going to eat healthy vegetables. You're learning about how you know bathtub time. That is your first time when your child's around water. Use those touch points in your child's life where it doesn't matter your demographic. They're all going to the pediatrician. you're all going to these appointments. Catch them at the opportunities that you have in front of you. >> I I I appreciate that perspective and and and largely concur. Uh families know their pediatricians. Uh uh that's a trusted uh voice and uh and and a name that uh that that plays such an outsized role uh in in the early childhood development. People don't necessarily know CPSC. People that know CPSC sometimes get our acronym wrong, but they know who their pediatrician is. >> Yeah. >> Um, shifting gears, one of the most significant changes that I've seen since 2007 has been the rise of uh the the short-term rental market. Um, and I'm I'm pleased that Airbnb uh has joined us here today uh as a partner in the effort. Um, and I I I think that's because these platforms absolutely have an important role to play in in advancing uh pool safely. So, uh, Miss Bellamy, my my question to you, what message do parents most need to hear that they're not hearing right now? >> Absolutely. And I think a lot of folks around this table have already sort of mentioned it, but our partners at Safe Kids Worldwide have always emphasized to me that the water watcher role is a designated role. It's not passive. And I think parents need to be reminded consistently and clearly that supervision means one adult not distracted, not on the phone, not thinking someone else is watching. Um to be within arms length of a ch young child near a near water or a lake or or a beach. Um as folks have mentioned, those these lapses in supervision can lead to pretty fatal results. So I think consistently pushing that message to parents either through the app at the actual listing with you know messaging and warning near the pools. We've seen that really provide some really great results. So that's kind of the thing that we'd like to continue to push forward. >> And given all that, what's the most important recommendation that you'd make to the commission today? I think uh you know millions of people stay at homes with pools either through travel or through their relatives and really that safety education piece is really really key. So figuring out the notes that we need to be hitting when it comes to consumer awareness and educational campaigns through different modalities either through AI technology on-site pre-training talking to pediatricians beforehand is going to be really key. Yeah, that education's one piece of it. Training is another. That's an excellent segue. Uh the the uh American uh Red Cross has trained millions of Americans in in water safety and CPR. Uh and and I know that there's a a number of uh interventions that uh that that perhaps have been more uh uh successful than others. YMCA in that same vein uh plays, you know, perhaps the foremost critical role in in terms of training uh and uh and and and bringing people into the water uh uh and and creating that level of familiarity. Uh I'm I'm curious if you could talk about about your experience and and again uh what what what trainings and interventions you find to be most valuable. Yeah, I think uh my answer to that is really echoing some of the conversation that we've already had. Uh you know, we we know that drowning prevention is often focused on awareness rather rather than sustained behavior change and I think that's what all of my colleagues here are talking about is how do we change it from awareness campaigns to really sustained behavior and environmental change. Right? Most uh we know most parents know drowning is a risk, right? they come and take swimming lessons because they recognize that drowning is a risk. Uh you know, even our our safety around water program, which is creating free access for swimming lessons, right? We're reaching community partners in that because parents know that they want swimming lessons for their children and they uh but they don't they they necessarily don't have action, right? Um awareness alone doesn't create water competency. Behavior change and and effective programs are what do it, right? uh awareness doesn't uh install barriers around pools. Uh awareness doesn't improve supervision practices um or expand access to lessons. I I think the challenge is not that we lack knowledge, it's that um the proven protections are not reaching every family consistency. And you know, that's why I think a training program um uh all of these cross- sector collaborations are so important because they're really getting to the root of the problem, which is behavior change, not just awareness. Yeah, I appreciate the distinction between a awareness versus behavioral change. Uh I I think I think CPSC is very much at an inflection point right now, particularly with respect to pool safely. Um and just to to take a bit of a retrospective, uh the way the commission had measured success previously on pool safely was absolutely measuring awareness. how many uh social media ads did we put out and how many impressions uh did did uh did did that particular ad or or or message uh reach? Uh and I I think as as most uh folks that study communication uh and and social media messaging in particular uh can tell you uh impressions alone uh is a very poor statistic uh to to to measure success uh the success of of any messaging campaign. Um, >> I know that that uh that that Commissioner Zak has uh has some particularly strong views on this. So, I'm gonna turn the floor over to you. >> I do. Uh, and thank you, Miss Bondic. Uh, I I should say uh my my dad who my my mother was terrified of water and never had we had a backyard pool. It had a deck which was probably a bad idea. But my father uh was uh a by swim instructor which gained my early knowledge of and interest in in aquatics. Um Dr. Nelson said something really important and I'll get then get to the to the question that Peter was going to ask. There's a a misimpression about what drowning looks like. And I say that as other than than Peter, I think he and I probably spent the most time sitting in that chair guarding children, which is why most of those incidents don't happen at at pools with them. And there's nothing more eye opening for a 16-year-old kid who doesn't know any better, who thinks this was just a great way to spend the summer rather than doing quote unquote real work when that first child slips in the pool silently. There's no yelling, there's a little bit of splashing, and your heart explodes and you have to go pull them out of the pool because I've done that. I've trained people to do that. And so that that that's a a critical point is actually in the education. It doesn't look like in the movies. It doesn't look like people thrashing about necessarily. It's it's silent, deadly, and quick. To the point on impressions and the the existing campaigns. I worked for a senator from Ohio, Senator George Voyovich, who often said to us, "If it's worth doing, it's worth measuring. And if you can't measure it, it's not worth doing. And again, that's where I think we are today, which is how do we undertake these layered different approaches and actually make a difference continuing to spend money on a campaign that isn't reaching people where they are involving people who are after the fact able to to direct rather than before the fact. That's where I think if we we focus that attention and we measure that data to see if it's working and then course correct. Again, for so long, it's been doing more of the same thing rather than measuring if that thing is mattering. And unfortunately, I think the answer is it hasn't had the we haven't made the progress. It hasn't had the effect that that all of the good intentions had hoped. >> Yeah, Doug, you you mentioned continuing to spend money on the campaign. Um, and I just uh uh probably worth noting for the the good of the order and and the discussion. I don't think that there's a question on the table about pulling back money uh from the the pool safely campaign. Uh we've got statutory obligations where uh where where the the commission is uh required to engage in in in public education and certainly fully intend uh to continue our our commitment to doing that. I think that the the the the relevant question that's in front of the the commission is one a recognition that the campaign and Allen you said this you said this very eloquently. it it it hasn't been working well in recent years. Um, and you know, to to your point uh about the old uh uh uh George Voyovichism uh about about measuring outcomes, we need better outcomes. Uh uh which I think is why the commission um in in in recent months has has focused to uh looking at the number of products that we were able to recall uh to look at uh uh you know the the actual number of uh uh uh non-compliant VGB covers that we've been able to see. Those are quantifiable metrics that we're able to look at. That is more approaching an outcome metric than a process metric. >> And and and I think there's a it's a limited budget, but what you can do is create some laboratories of democracy. Create some programs located with similar demographics with similar situations and run natural experiments so that you can measure is this working is there's making a difference versus the control group. Controlled randomized studies are another thing that as you and I have talked about over the years, I don't think the commission does enough of. And you can run these sorts of uh uh uh studies to see and get those measurable demonstrable results. Hey, this is working, this isn't, and be prepared to jettison the things that are working and expand on the things that are not. >> Yeah. I I I I think I think we should uh absolutely approach it with that kind of flexibility um and and willingness to uh uh to change course where uh where where the the data demonstrates that uh that that we're going to realize better success. Does anybody else have clear thoughts on appropriate metrics that we should be applying uh in terms of measuring success? perhaps not on the the appropriate metrics, but I I do want to ensure that we talk about taking those outcomes, those metrics and uh incorporating them into codes and standards. I mean, this is kind of a built-in process that local governments go through when they reup their codes and and standards uh their their adoption process. And this is this is an easy way. It's lowhanging fruit to get these demonstrable effective regulations in a code in a standard and then at the uh at the resident or you know the the local pool. I mean this is something I think we we need to take a little bit harder look in and you know CPS-C's involvement is is certainly helpful in that. >> Yeah. From from a standard setting perspective I I think I'd like to hear from uh Dr. Nelson and also the international code council. uh uh you know obviously that is one of the central roles that CPSC uh plays as a uh collector, aggregator and broker of of of of data and uh injury and fatality statistics. Um that has certainly been a focus of uh investment over the past years is strengthening how we collect that. uh we um have had some uh great successes uh recently. For example, in the collection of fatality data, whereas uh up until recently, it used to take us up to 3 years for a full national compendium of of uh fatality data uh across all of the states. that that time um given AI and uh and and with with the application of uh some some uh more advanced technological solutions to to how we're collecting that data, we get this now in in in days if not weeks. Um which is a significant step forward. Um, but in in terms of CPS-C's role in aggregating this data and sharing it with standards development and codes development or organizations, I'm curious to hear your perspective on how that relationship's been working, what CPSC can do better, uh, how how this agency can be most effective um, in uh, its role as a a a broker uh, in uh, in in in the voluntary standard setting uh, or organization. Dr. Nelson, >> thank you. Yeah, such a an important question and CPSC staff plays an incredibly vital role in the development and um even the revision of voluntary standards because we rely on the staff to come to us with incident data with the in-depth investigations so that we can understand and the in-depth investigations of course are particularly important because they have the in-depth information that we can use to try to determine whether or not we need to um update any of the performance requirements. Um so absolutely I think that it's um a vital role that the commission plays and I'm so glad that you are interested in continuing um to play that role and I also wanted to mention that one of the challenges for us is that we can't really write standards around behavior right so we write standards for the manufacturers of these products absolutely a critical layer of protection we as we've all talked about but when we talk about how do we change behavior another layer layer of protection. I like your idea about doing testing um and also as I said before in delivering communications and trainings that is personalized to consumers at pediatricians offices or online to check the communication. This is something that we always say is essential. That's why the idea of impressions doesn't really mean a lot because that's pushing out information, but there's no checking of whether or not the information was accurately received. So, that's something that I think is necessary along the lines of what you talked about and along the lines of what I was mentioning before with the national training program where you are checking the communication. A te little test is taken at the end to make sure people have accurately received the information. Another thing that we know from psych psychological research is ask that we can ask people about their behavioral intent. And a study that was done a long time ago by Fishbine in 1978 found that a person's behavioral intent aligns closely with their subsequent behavior. And I think that's especially true if you ask them about it. Will you do this? Because then there's some some degree of commitment. Now, we could use more current research on behavioral intent, but I think that that's another element of the training that is done and checking the communication, asking people what their intent is. >> I I I appreciate that perspective. Um with with respect to uh uh CPAC's relationship visa v the SDOS's, um Mr. Levy, I'm curious to to hear your thoughts uh as they relate to the International Code Council. >> Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that. So I think as as I mentioned in my open remarks, you all were key participants and partners in the development of the 2020 of previous and the current international swimming pool and spa code. So my initial simpleton answer to you is we need to make sure sir that your staff, your subject matter experts are participating in our code committees and our code hearings. Um, so right now as we speak, we're wrapping up the 2027 code development process and we're actually moving to 2030 because you know where we are, where our membership is, and where our system is based on is three-year code updates. Um, and again, I'll be the first to admit, Mr. Chairman, this system can be slow, but it's slow because it's designed to be deliberative. And what we've seen, and I I'm very hesitant to bring any sense of partisan politics into this discussion, as as the new administration took the reigns of government over the last year and a half, and there were some travel restrictions, there were some restrictions on federal staff, as previous administrations have done, as they've gotten their arms around the federal bureaucracy. I just really want to drive home to you the importance of making sure that your staff have the knowledge, skills, abilities, and support and obviously funding to help participate in our code development process. And they've been at the table. We want to keep them at the table. I think that's part one. Uh and part two, Mr. Chairman, I could follow up with your folks offline about this is I talked about get we got to get over the scary term enforcement. Um, and that I I understand in speaking with Republican members of Congress, your colleagues, Mr. Chairman, throughout this administration, you know, a lot of folks are loathed to provide federal support or federal resources to support the enforcement of building codes and safety standards. And what we could work with you all on is maybe doing a little education together on the hill and elsewhere. that again enforcement doesn't mean they picture somebody with a yellow light coming up with a red tab and they stop construction. Um that's not what our members do. So working with you guys on that education is important. And I think thirdly and finally um taking off my ICC hat on a personal note if I could be of any assistance to your public affairs team as you look at the future of your of your congressionally required campaign. Uh I'm someone who helped to run FEMA's ready campaign for several years which you might be familiar with. That's the nations and the country's disaster res disaster radius preparedness campaign. There are a lot of lessons learned there, Mr. Chairman, about what the federal government can do well. I know some of the previous speakers touched upon this and what we may what feds maybe struggle with in terms of running national campaigns. Everybody thinks back to Smokey the Bear and how that was so effective. Smokeoky the Bear was really effective because of local engagement, a lot of flexibility of the federal government, designing national level marketing templates and strategies, but focused on local implementation. So, let's get your guys involved in the code development process. Let's help to destigmatize the term enforcement and happy to serve as a reference to your public affairs folks. Thank you, >> Mr. Levy. I appreciate that. As a former ICC employee who sat through many IBC IC uh development meetings, I I concur with your assessment that they can in fact be slow. Uh but uh at the same time uh you know let let me put in a plug. Uh pursuing voluntary codes and standards development organizations uh is certainly CPS-C's preferred approach uh not only under our statutory obligation but for practical reasons. When we get all stakeholders together to to reach consensus in the room, uh that becomes a more durable standard from the pure fact that that everybody in in in in uh that that has a vested interest in that uh in in that uh safety standard uh uh has agreed to a code that takes potential litigants and challenges to a code that CPSC is going to enforce off the table and gives us something durable, then we can immediately move to enforcement. I also take slight issue, Mr. to leave you with uh with with uh your characterization of uh of of of enforcement. Certainly at CPSC uh uh there has been a market shift towards uh enforcement at times aggressive enforcement uh particularly when it comes to uh the products that we're tasked with with regulating often which that uh originate overseas uh where you have manufacturers that certainly are not in the room uh when the SDO organizations are are are meeting and convening uh that have no interest in respecting American IP uh let alone the safety standards that we have to enforce. Uh I mentioned in uh my opening remarks uh the sheer volume increasing volume of uh of of non-compliant VGB drain covers that we continue to see flooding into this country uh that are manufactured and I'll call it out by name primarily in the People's Republic of China. This is a problem. This is a challenge that CPSC I think is rightly recognized and have no intention of slowing down uh in order to make sure that American families are are are safe. >> Yeah, Mr. Chairman, thank you for that clarification. I should have been I should have been more clear. I uh we've struggled a little bit to tell the story about supporting local code officials uh with federal resources to enforce building and safety codes. Certainly very much recognizing the great work you've done. In fact, some of my colleagues who work at our pool and safety team are actually looking to connect with your team more because of what we're hearing from our members of seeing those falsified faulty Chinese goods when our folks do go around and do inspections. So, let me applaud you for that and thank you for the clarification to the group. I appreciate it. >> Thank Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, in in terms of uh uh closing remarks, I uh I I I think that this has been a a productive conversation. Um, I think that CPSC clearly has work ahead of it to to to do in order to uh uh to to make sure that the authorities that we are executing in the way that we're going about uh the the the general approach to pool safely is is efficient and effective as it as it possibly can be. Uh I said at the at the outset uh that uh that I I believe the uh the the the numbers and the data that we that that that we saw published in the uh the most recent submersion report uh is is a call for concern. Um I think it's a call to action. Uh I think that we are an inflection point when it comes to how the commission uh is uh funding, approaching and measuring success with respect to the pool safely campaign. I know that there's a significant amount of work to be done uh in in in in that vein. I consider everybody in this room right now uh a partner uh and a resource in in helping us uh uh get the right balance uh to set the agency and American families up for success. And and like I said at the outset, uh hopefully if we uh strike the right balance uh and and allocate resources uh in the appropriate combination that we'll be in a position uh to do what I set out for at the beginning, which is uh you know, not just amplify and draw awareness to the fact that there's a drowning. Uh Miss Ferrari, you said the word crisis in your opening remarks uh but but actually take affirmative steps towards reducing that. I want to thank everybody for their time and and attention uh for being here today. Uh and I I hope that this is uh remains an ongoing conversation. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all very much.