Council 2026 09 08

All right. Good evening everybody. It is 6 o'clock and I will call the 11th regular common council meeting to order. Will the clerk call the role? >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Alder person Boris >> here. >> Alder person Bzer >> here. >> Alder person Close >> here. >> Alder person Decker >> here. >> Alder person Graine >> here. Alder person Heidman. >> Alder person Kelly >> here. >> Alder person Mensor >> here. >> Alder person Mitchell >> here. >> Alder personel. >> There are 10 present. >> Thank you. If everyone could please stand for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Alder Boris, is there a motion to approve the minutes from our last meeting? >> I move to approve the minutes from the 10th regular council meeting held on August 17th, 2026. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. All those in favor of approval of the minutes state I. >> I. >> Any objections? Minutes are approved. Next, under item five, under announcements, the board of water commissioners will be having an election held on September 21st, 2026 for a three-year term beginning October 1st, October, excuse me, October 1st, 2026, and a 2-year term for the unexpired term. If anyone is interested, please contact the city clerk or the council president by Thursday, September 17th. Thank you. Item six is mayoral appointments, city attorney. Thank you. Liz Kroll to be considered for appointment to the board of housing authority. Annelise Flynn to be considered for appointment to the me public library board. Carl Nelson to be considered for appointment to the senior services commission. Quinton Zufeld to be considered for appointment to the board of zoning appeals. >> Thank you. Those items will lay over. Next item seven, confirmation. City attorney >> Tracy Bernett to be considered for appointment to the board of housing authority. This um nomination has been withdrawn. Brianna Bourne to be considered for appointment to the mayor's international committee. Jess Thyroan to be considered for appointment to the mayor's international committee. >> Thank you. Alder Boris. >> I move to file Tracy Bernett's appointment and confirm the remainder. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. This is a roll call vote. 10 eyes. >> Those are approved. Next item eight, public forum. City clerk, anyone for a public forum this evening? >> Yes. >> First speaker is Trigg Jacobson. >> And then for those speaking tonight, please state your name, the item you're speaking on, your address, and then you'll have 5 minutes. Okay. My name is Tri Jacobson. Can everybody hear me? My address is 222 Vrath Boulevard, Shboen, Wisconsin. Mayor Sorenson, uh, members of the Common Council, Chief Simple and City Administrator Bradley, and fellow citizens, uh, thank you very much for giving me a few minutes. Nearly 55 years ago, my father was teaching me to drive in his brand new car. And we were driving east on Erie Avenue, approaching a green light at the intersection of 8th and Erie. And when my father suddenly yelled, he said, "Stop." And a car traveling south blew right through the red light directly in front of us. And we were almost hit. And I said, "Dad, I had the green light." And he said, "Son, if you're dead, it doesn't really matter who's right." I never forgot that. And I've thought about it as I've studied this issue before you tonight on flock safety because we're talking about two things we all value. Our privacy and our safety. And we shouldn't casually surrender either. When I first looked into this, I thought the question was going to be fairly simple. Uh should keep flock safety or uh should we terminate the contract? today. I don't think it's that simple. The resolution before you says, "Flock safety offered our Department of Public Work anonymize traffic volume, vehicle type, and speed information derived from the cameras, something our police department says it didn't know or even consent to." The city considers that a violation of its agreement. And that's serious because at 900 p.m. last night on Fox 6, Flock Safety publicly responded to the specific Shbboan traffic data allegation. Flock Safety says it does not sell the personal data. Instead, it says traffic analytics is separate product from its license plate reader platform and does not contain personal license plate data. It provides agencies with aggregate deidentified roadway trends to support transportation planning, public safety, infrastructure decisions, and emergency preparedness. So now we have a very important factual disagreement. Shboan officials have characterized the situation as flock safety offering to sell city years of traffic information derived from its cameras. and flock safety is now saying that characterization is incorrect or at least it it's not complete and that the analytics product is separate from the identifiable LPR data. I don't know who's right, but before making this decision permanently, shouldn't we find out exactly what happened? Did they really break the contract? Was anything actually sold or transferred? Flock safety may have violated its agreement. I don't know. But then hold flock safety accountable. But let's first establish the facts. And yet there's also another side. City officials will easily admit that flock safety's technology has been instrumental in removing violent offenders from our community and recovering stolen vehicles and property. And in other areas of the country, Flock Safety's technology has actually helped return kidnapped children to their parents. So, two things can be true. Flock safety may have violated Shbboan's trust and their technology may have helped make Shabboan safer. So, let's find out which LPR system gives our officers the best technology and the most useful network. If another vendor offers something better, well, then I I guess I would say choose it. Speaking as a father of three daughters and eight grandchildren, I want our police department to have the very best tools we can responsibly put in their hands. I respect Chief Zmple and I respect his recommendation, but I also respectfully ask you, does this decision have to be made tonight? We might learn more tomorrow, but then it's too late. The cameras are already covered. And look at how much we have just learned in the last few weeks. Perhaps your decision tonight doesn't have to be yes or no. Perhaps it can just be a not yet. And give yourself 60 days to establish the facts to find the truth. Determine which system gives our system the the best technology analytics and network. then establish the privacy, retention, sharing, auditing, and reporting rules that Shbboan would require of any company that we choose. Maybe flock safety should go. I don't know. Maybe another company is better. We don't know that. Or maybe the trust problem could be repaired. Trig, you are over time. Can you wrap up? >> Can I take another 30 seconds? >> Yeah, please. Please wrap up. Thank you. >> I don't know. But that's pre precisely my point. When when important information is still arriving every single day, wisdom isn't making the fastest decision. It's making the best informed one. My father taught me something very important that day on Athani. And having a green light doesn't mean I shouldn't stop and look both ways. Tonight, public safety and privacy have arrived at the same intersection. We need both. So before proceeding, stop, look both ways, get our facts straight, and then let's get this decision right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> City clerk. Next person, >> Joseph Jocelyn. >> Good evening, common council. >> My name is Joseph Lawson. I live in 3035 North 26th Street in Shuigan. I'll be talking about the flock safety uh contract and automatic license fleet readers and mass surveillance. I will email uh each of you a copy of this talk as well as a Excel document full of other um sources that I have for this. This is not a conservative or liberal issue. This is not a partisan issue but concerns every single one of us and how we want to be as a community and as a nation as a whole. Did you hear about the group in Boston who committed major organized retail theft of thousands of dollars of property, destroying and looting as they went? They worked together and conspired against the laws and against the property owner. It was an allout riot. And yet today we lo them today as major heroes to the American Revolution as those who did the Boston Tea Party. Do you think that we would have the USA today if the British had had mass surveillance such as Flock and Axon and others and had the ability to track and follow down any of the revolutionaries of the colonists? as the colonists themselves were lawb breakakers and radicals. The tax parliament levied against the colonist was legal. But was it right? Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, moral or ethical. We should not argue if mass surveillance is legal or if some judge somewhere says it that or some company salesperson says that it is. We shouldn't argue if we should go to some other non-flock company that says it has better safeguards or a better contract to keep the data in safer hands or we'll retain data for 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 months. This is all beyond the point and and a distraction from the real issue. We should be much more concerned on the fact that this is indeed the mass surveillance warned by so many authors and critical thinkers and by history itself that will inevitably lead to more governmental overreach and less liberty and freedom for all of us. from the reports I've seen and from the email that was attached to the packet um that Flock was, you know, as was stated had attempted to sell years of data past and potentially future uh to the city. Uh Axon, another company, is no different than Flock. Vigilant Solutions is no different. Verata, Autovoo, Recor System, and many others. All of these are no different. They have financial incentives to maximize profits through data collection. No matter what kind of contract they the city has or SPD tries to engage them in or terms of service they say they have, they will break it. They already have. They will continue to do so in the future. There should be no benefit of the doubt given to these companies when they have shown they are unrepentant and repeat offenders. The common council should not only cancel the contract with flock and take down the cameras and other sensors, but they should ensure that the SVD and city do not contract with or purchase any other ALPR mass surveillance systems as they are corrosive and corrupting to our puh privacy and to our democracy. They are anti-lberty and anti-american. For those of you who don't know, these are not just license plate readers. They do much more than that. They determine and catalog the make, model, color, plate number, bumper stickers, DMV tags, scratches, dents, dings, and other damage to the vehicle. They're starting to use facial recognition of the driver and passengers, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, cellular fingerprints of the devices inside those vehicles and the vehicle itself and all occupants and devices, whether they're adults or minors within those vehicles, cataloging them, creating unique identifiers for each and comparing them to public DMV databases, and effectively reducing all privacy of movement to zero. They also sell this data to third parties, advertisers, insurance companies within that 30-day window as it says uh in the contract in the agenda. And we wonder sometimes why our insurance rates go up. Um, what if I could submit a foyer request or public records request or even purchase this data from Flock or any of these other vendors considering that they have years of our data still or other, you know, LPR companies or their proxies for the mayor's car, personal or private, for any of your cars, personal or private, and make a map of all that activity where you have been, how many times, and when. If that makes you uncomfortable, then good, because uh you should be uncomfortable because it is wrong. And if you don't think it's right for it to be known about you, why should it be right to be known about any of the rest of us? Who are the folks that you should be trying to help and protect protect from these things? Modern technology can be helpful for law enforcement. And I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with police having a freely searchable database of everyone when and where they drive for weeks, months, or years correlated through companies with files on every single one of us. The founders didn't write the constitution, the fourth amend, and the fourth amendment to make a law enforcement's jobs easier, but exactly the opposite to make it hard to ensure that the government couldn't slide back into the into the tyranny that they themselves were revoling against. We can't go about chiding the USSR during the cold war, China currently for their surveillance state, and and how terrible that must be for their citizens, and then turn around and say that our surveillance state is good. Mass surveillance is not safety. I urge you all to not renew the flock contract and critically I urge you to not implement any other contract with Axon or other companies mass surveillance or hardware systems. Thank you. >> Thank you. City city clerk >> Roy Potter. >> Roy name, address, item you're speaking on and you'll have five minutes. If you could just adjust the mic for what's Can you adjust the mic? >> There we go. Perfect. Thank you. Roy Potter, 2625 South 8th Street. I'm here tonight to address a few concerns of the pedestrian bridge. We uh I am both a member of the Great Lakes Sports Fisherman and the Shogan Outboard Club. We do a lot of things for community uh children's programs um charter captain's programs but our first concern is safety and some of the things that we've been looking at for the issues that we have with this pedestrian bridge um would be I guess the first point would be it would be the smallest distance across the river. It's on a blind corner and in the fog, trees, and current, you have a hard time navigating. It's not a matter of putting it in park and waiting for the light, waiting for a bridge. There are questions of who would replace the sensors if it fails, how fast that turnaround would be. We have uh a need for a contingency plan. If the if the river does fail, who is who would uh how does that work out as far as uh mechanical issues? We were told by the engineers that the sensor would be the biggest problem, but that it could also be opened by a pickup truck. Um, on conversations, we're looking at who's donating the pickup truck when we need it. Um, we know that there's uh a total of u to $20,000 minimum probably of or more or more of charter sales that go through the bridge all summer long every day. There's going to be a lot of people affected by that. I am from the outboard club, so I am already affected by excuse me, I am already affected by the height of the eight street bridge. I would have concerns of the pedestrian bridge on two different levels. I would have a question to see um the Coast Guard and safety v vessels if they would be able to come up if that bridge was closed. We've had several opportunities this year where the Coast Guard and everybody was was able to do what they had to do on the river up from us and uh it's it really needs to be addressed if the Coast Guard or who would address that. We have u a couple questions as far as mechanical issues that being it. Some of the times the boats come out, the logs come out. If that bridge is damaged, how much um mechanical failure stress would that bridge hold back? Um the logs and the trees that come down that particular stretch of the water, they come up the river and they go down the river. They go back and forth a few times and when they're hung up there, who is going to remove them at 4:00 in the morning when everybody's going out? or if anybody else can remove them, we would need to know who can if we're allowed to do it ourselves. The other issue I had is the lighting on the Eighth Street bridge. I've talked with the lighting engineer and the 8th Street Bridge, there's two red lights and the green light only turns on when the bridge is raised. I would ask you to consider that with this other bridge. We would really really prefer to have the bridge open as a normal stand and closed when the pedestrians go past. Um because right now that lighting would really mess up navigation lighting if it was open and closed the red and green. Um we would have questions as far as do the boats have a rightway versus the pedestrians, who goes first in what order? We would also have um let's see one more here. Okay. We'd also like to see if the parking structure that that that is going to be removed for that is being considered by the businesses as that is a large area there that is used would be used for that future parking lot. I don't have uh any more questions but I hope you consider my questions here tonight. Thank you for your time. >> Thank you. City Clerk >> Brian Grunkkey. >> Hi, my name is Brian Grinky. I live at 2402 North 6th Street in Shabboan and I'm also going to talk on the pedestrian bridge. Um, I'm also a slip holder upstream and I run a charter business out of Shboen. I've previously raised concerns about the very real possibility of lost revenue, as he had also mentioned, to charter businesses when a bridge becomes inoperable. Um, I I appreciate the new design that allows bridge to be opened by a a pickup truck or manually versus the original design, but there's still some concerns. Will qualified personnel be available 24/7 to respond to mechanical problems, or could a failure leave the bridge closed for hours or even days? If an unscheduled unscheduled closure prevents established maritime businesses from operating, who will be responsible for those losses? Like he had mentioned, that could be $10,000 or more per day. Um, and that would be de devastating to most of the small businesses down there. Boat traffic can be every few minutes during the summer months. Guys are purposely staggered in time so that we don't have congestion at the fish cleaning station. Um would the bridges be opening every five or 10 minutes to let every single boat through or would be staged in 20 minute increments? What happens then with weather issues or safety concerns with health or you know one of our passengers that needs to get back to dock? Um my other concern is the new bridge now design includes the placement of pilings in the river that the first design didn't have. How will this affect the river flow? Um especially potential for log jams or blockages upstream because of the reduced flow eddies and sholing downstream by the currents and navigational hazards caused by the turbulence of the bridge itself. Um, have adequate environmental and river flow studies been conducted, especially with the new design and has the city considered the long-term cost associated with dredging if needed to remove sholes or a blockage of the debris. Um, personally, I feel the potential issues with this project outweigh the small number of benefits that it might bring to the community, but overall it really comes down to what's best for the community in a whole. Thank you. Thank you, city clerk, Michael Bernett. >> Michael Barrett, 611 Water Street. Sasquatch got his motorcycle stolen a block from here. Dude used his credit card at Quick Trip between here and 76th in Brown Deer by Old Northridge. 100 cameras it was on. Did that get his motorcycle back? No. Is his motorcycle ever coming back? No. But that's not saying flocks that many, but a hundred different cameras they tracked on. Spo's had cameras for about 10 years and not flock or whatever. And like Trigg said, there's going to be some kind or another. And it's one of those you're dealing they're the big fish in the pond, the big vendor. Um the aggregated data, nothing ever stays aggregated. When you have good enough AI, it can break that over time. And that is an issue and what's going on. But what what freaks me out more here is the governance issue of how this all went down that today I hear that this breach was noted sometime in summer. I'm like why didn't this come to a committee? Why didn't it go through council? Why didn't it do anything like that? And it came out from uh the administrator and the chief of police. Then you had the mayor come in and do a little song and dance in there. Brought these guys here. I'm on no less than a half a dozen cameras here. Feel very safe. Um we're going to have something one way or another. And it it's fine. But right now what you did, what blows my mind is how do you get to just say without the council voting on this, we don't want those cameras on now, so we're going to cover them up. It sounds like an Italian Job three movie where the police are the insiders and they said, "Let's cover up all the cameras because we're gonna do this crazy stupid stuff for for a little bit, then they'll be back on." And I'm not saying anything like that is happening, not whatsoever. But I think it's kind of ridiculous. And you guys totally knew it was it was in the docket. And on the first night of the new council of swearing in, I said to Brian Kelly as he walked in, I go, "Hey, I got 97% certainty you're getting this celebrated stuff with this Jade Grant and D. There's not going to be any discussion of it." Was there? No. And that's the stuff that can break your iPhone like instantly. And for everybody, that's there. You're already recording the other stuff. Um, you had it on car readers a decade ago. you have that uh stuff that you have that civic software that's also tracking everybody's uh emails to the city your social media and everything and it tracks sendment and it breaks it down so they can figure out how to market to you when something comes out a post on like next door or something. It's really being generated by that software which the name is escaping my mind but it's like but it literally is picking you out and saying hey would you like to respond to that that's how it's it's getting out it's fighting everybody speaking here and you go on I'm going to flip over it to the to the bridge thing that's going to be a minimum of five out of pocket 5 million which seems to be nothing compared to the spending that's going on and stuff and it's like but it's part of that um dockyard project and stuff you know to develop that area and I question the need need for it and if you didn't need to get across the river that bad cuz you're also talking probably about a million a year which sounds like of maintenance but for sure cuz you're going to talk all the maintenance that's not going to be done you're going to have to replace major parts all the time it's what it is when Green Bay put in their big Nichki bridge I was sitting up in there in winter 3 months later freezing my ass off taking pictures cuz they had to change all the gears out and that was like a couple million dollar changeover and that wasn't planned. That stuff's complex. This is winter. This is Shboan. That's all I got. >> Thank you. See city clerk. Anyone else? >> That's it for this evening. >> All right, that concludes our public forum. Uh next we have a presentation and I'll turn it over to our city engineer Kevin Jump. Kevin. Let's put it on this one. Yep. >> Thank you. Uh so we thought we'd take an opportunity to give the council an update on where we sit on the bridge project. Um, so we invited HDR here to provide an update. They're the city's design consultant. Um, we've worked through some public information reviews, some structural reviews. Um, but I think now is a good time for for our consultant to uh give us a a detailed breakdown of where we're at. So, at this point, I'll turn over to HDR. >> Thanks, Kevin. And thank you for the opportunity to pres present before the council tonight. We'll use the screen here to assist us with our presentation. My name is Chase Keeler. I'm HDR's Wisconsin transportation program manager. I'm out of our Madison office. Uh spent 18 years in the industry. Uh project manager for roadway and bridge projects uh specifically in the state of Wisconsin. Uh and then here with me, happy to have Ron Sanchez. He's our movable uh bridge design lead. He's HDR's southeast region movable bridge practice lead as well. Um, he's got 30 years of experience in the industry. We also lean on Rob Moses. He's not here tonight, but he's a special movable bridge adviser. He's worked on a lot of movable bridges in the state of Wisconsin. He also worked on the Miller Park uh roof. Quick presentation overview tonight. Um, we're going to talk purpose and need of the project. Project location, I think you're already familiar with that. Uh, navigation study that we did. Uh, the NEPA environmental document. Uh we're going to cover some of the public involvement that's been done thus far. Uh project schedule. Uh and then Ron's gonna we're going to talk construction details a little bit and then Ron's going to dive in on some of the the actual preferred alternative bridge uh approaches and then the movable span itself in terms with a emphasis on safety and reliability. So, the project purpose in need uh is to address some safety issues with bicycle and pedestrian in incidents. Uh over a 5-year window from 2015 to 2020, there was 51 crashes involving uh bicyclists and pedestrians. We had three fatalities. Uh there were six involved with severe injuries and a lot of those crashes occurred in the vicinity of the 8th Street Bridge uh specifically by the roundabout to the south. Uh so that was that was a big reason for addressing the safety needs with this project. If you recall, the city was awarded a federal raise grant for 5.3 million in 2022, one of only four uh recipients that year in the state. And then if you're not familiar, the the project location again was is where Virginia Avenue uh would would go if you travel east into the river and then it would connect to the Lake View Street Plaza uh terminal on the other side of the river. In 2025, we did a navigation study. Uh we looked at public data on AIS transponders for boats and vessels in the area to get a sense of frequency of travel and the size of the vessels. Um we also talked with charter charter fishers, several charters we reached out to and got feedback in terms of the frequency of trips and the size of their the heights of the outriggers. And it was quickly we came to the conclusion that a fixed bridge is probably not a realistic possibility. uh the the height that we'd need. We've got sailboats out there that are 75 feet uh airdrafts. Uh many of the charters are 25 to 30 feet uh with the outriggers. So a fixed bridge would dominate the skyline. It would have significant rightaway impacts and the costs would be uh significant. So the aim was from from that point forward is really you know looking at a movable bridge as the prudent alternative. quick overview of the environmental and agency uh coordination activities. We don't have time to really dive into this in depth uh but wanted to just highlight what we've been doing and and environmental components has been a significant part of this project. Uh the former rice coal plant and super fun site of the river uh we've had to do hazardous materials investigations. Uh we completed a phase one investigation uh which which revealed that we do have to do a phase 2 and a half get borings out there and address uh some some of the contaminated materials. It does does happen on on a lot of these engineering projects that we work on. So it's not uncommon, but uh something we'll have to address. Uh section 4F, the funding that was used for the boardwalks themselves, we're planning to return the the boardwalks to even better condition uh than prior. Um flood plane, I think that was mentioned previously. We know there was an event in 2018. Uh the current flood plane, FEMA mapped flood plane does trickle onto the west boardwalk itself a little bit. Uh we did a detailed study that was uh independently verified by another consultant firm and we were able to prove a no rise condition to that flood plane with our current bridge alternative. agency coordination that we've done both both state and federal agencies ongoing coordination with the DNR several uh different members of the DNR contaminated SE sediment. Uh we do have a fish timeout window where we're not allowed to be in the stream uh for the salmon um from September 15th through May 15th. Uh we've also talked with the US Coast Guard uh for the bridge permit as well as lighting permit we'll need from them. Uh we've had ongoing discussions with the US Army Corps of Engineers for section 404 and section 408 permits uh as well as US fish and wildlife on the federal side. Um and then also the Wisconsin coastal management program as well. Um we also reached out to Native American tribal liaison uh which is standard practice for projects that we work on with federal and state funding. Um, and then we are nearing a draft environmental document, uh, which will be signed by FHWA. Uh, it's a type CEC, categorical exclusion environmental document, and we we're hoping to get that signed this fall. A little bit more on the public involvement that we completed um that that was held uh June of this year um at Uptown Social in town on on June 10th. Uh, we had a good meeting. It was well attended. Uh we did have comments across the board which you know is typical a lot of times on on some of our projects. Uh we had several members that se several folks were very in support of the bridge. There was some opposition. Um specifically the aesthetics was mentioned. Um and I think and Ron's going to talk a little bit more about the aesthetics, but it's kind of an open template at this time. We haven't dove into that level of detail yet. We really are just in the preliminary plans phase. So that would be the next step if if we agree on the preferred alternative. Um so Ron Ron will talk a little bit more about that. Um that there was some opposition to the bridge. I think some of that's been mentioned tonight. Um and we did have a charter focus group meeting uh as well uh right before the meeting that same day. Uh we did have some opposition there at least initially in the meeting. Uh we did talk about some of the operations and maybe there is uh a way to keep the bridge open for a period of time for some some months you know 4:30 to 5:30 when the bulk of the charters go out. So there was some discussion of that um and that seemed to have more of a positive tone. Um at that meeting we did have a follow-up as well with one charter dumper Dan on the 25th. We did receive letters of res of support uh from six different businesses and entities in the area. Visit visit Shabboan uh the Shabboan County Economic Development Corporation, Harry's Prohibition Beastro, Blue Harbor Resort and Conference Center, the Shabboan County Chamber of Commerce, and Parker John's Barbecue and Pizza. Remaining project schedule again NEPA in 60% plan submitt is anticipated for this fall with wrapping up final plans at the end of first quarter next year starting the permitting this fall hopefully finishing it up next fall and then a letting uh potentially in May of next year with construction in 2028 and 2029 mentioned the fish timeout window that does restrict us a little bit um and then on the construction side you know there's a there's a period of time for contract contractor procurement of certain materials s uh that take a little bit longer to obtain. So that's something to factor along with the fish timeout window. We plan to keep everything open to businesses obviously during construction. We would plan on a boardwalk detour as shown in with the red dash lines here uh during construction. However, we don't plan on needing any real estate with the project. There would be a fiber optic connect connection, a small bendable uh fiber optic line direct board beneath um South Pure Drive to connect to the A Street Bridge, Tender House. A little bit more on the bridge approaches before Ron dives into the the bridge itself. Um but on the west side you're looking at on the screen here. Um this is just north of Parker John's. Um you could see that Park and John's building on the bottom uh for just to kind of get yourself oriented. Uh but multi-use trail reconstruction in addition sidewalk reconstruction. We'd be adding another ADA accessible uh ramp. There's already one there. We'd plan to potentially remove some stairs and add two of those ramps. Uh we another feature we've been looking at is potentially adding some architectural staircases. Ron's got some images that he'll show a little bit further down in the presentation. Uh but really just trying to make that area attractive as a place to uh experience. You know, it could we we we see some some cool opportunity there. Uh we'd be adding a little bit of green space. As you could tell, I think Parker John's would probably lose their seven parking stalls there that would have to be eliminated to make this happen. And then we would potentially close off access to the south parking lot um as shown on the left side of that image. Uh, but we would plan to add a driveway for accessing that south parking lot a little bit further to the south than what's shown on Riverfront Drive. It's not shown on this map, but it' be a little bit further. There'd be a driveway added. Uh, there's some storm sewer that would need to be redone. It's fairly minimal. Um, some path lighting. Uh, some small retaining walls. Uh, leading up to the bridge structure itself, which is shown in blue. That's the fixed portion of the bridge that won't move. Um the boardwalk itself you would pass beneath the uh bridge structure in blue. That's the the brown shaded area on on the west side only on the west side. The east side you would just need to walk around. It's a shorter walk on that side. Uh but then on the east side, you know, a lot of sidewalk reconstruction just uh just so we can tie back in there on that side. U we're not planning to do quite as much on that side with the plaza. Uh and again, we don't plan on needing any right away. I'm going to pass it to Ron now and he's going to talk a little bit more about the bridge uh preferred alternative. >> Okay, thank you. So, um now we're at the movable span, which is what everyone's going to be which really where most of the focus is going to be. So, the movable span itself is a rolling lift structure. Think of a rocking chair. It rolls back to open and it's actually pulled back by two hydraulic cylinders. You can kind of see them. They're rather small. Um on the right there, uh uh and you can see the bridges in the closed position on the right and then the open position on the left. Um the main gutters that look fairly complex. They're actually just conventional I-beam girdters with holes cut in them to make them look more sophisticated. There was a lot of decisions that we made during the design here to keep the bridge structure, the uh operating equipment, the electrical system simple so that they would be cost effective and and easy to maintain. Uh the deck type on the approaches is going to be all concrete deck like what you'd see on any type of conventional bridge. On the movable span, we're using FRP deck. It's a lightweight deck system and that's meant to keep the bridge weight very low and that has cascading uh benefits throughout the project keeping the span as light as possible. Uh one of the things that uh we wanted to make clear is that although we are have progressed the structural mechanical electrical designs pretty far, we know what the bridge weighs and how long it is and how big all the components are. At this point, there's still a lot of room for aesthetic improvements. Things like lighting, whether it be street lighting or aesthetic lighting. Uh we're going to show you some pictures of what is possible with aesthetic lighting. Um colors uh of the steel and concrete uh the web geometry. You see that really open design. Uh there's a lot of room for modification on the open design. And during the upcoming months, you will be sharing uh with the city. um and actually looking for feedback. What color do you want the bridge to be? Um do you want recommendations from us or or do you want to just tell us what what you'd like? And then you know um rail type seems trivial when you're talking about a movable span, but the experience of the pedestrians, the first thing they're going to see is the rails. And so we have to make some decisions. Do we want to use standard kind of basic rails or there's already a rail type along the boardwalk? we can imitate that or there's room for more unique design. So you have to think of this as there's a canvas now because we know what the bridge geometry is going to be but now as as a community we need to paint on this canvas. Um so um Chase already discussed some of the the the fact that the safety was a major driver in the decision to implement the bridge but there are things that are specific to a movable bridge in relation to safety. So there will be pedestrian gates that prohibit people from approaching the bridge when it is operating. Um there's a few devices that the operator will use in order to control uh people using the bridge. uh audible alarms and lights to alert them, a public address system to directly communicate with people who are on the bridge that we need to get off the bridge in order to operate it. Um video and thermal cameras and the thermal cameras are actually being used so for to improve night vision and to improve visibility in fog conditions. Um, this and the rest of these are true for all bridges, but I'm bringing them up because you may not be familiar with some of the safety features that are natural to a mobile bridge. There's bridge position sensing instrumentation that tell the uh control system what where the bridge is. Is it fully closed? Is it open? Um, there are channel sensors that are used to make sure that a vessel is not in the way when the bridge wants to be closed. So this is a second and third indication in addition to the visual cues uh brought on by cameras. Um inside of the controls of the uh bridge operating system there are interlocks. What those are are just gates that won't allow the operator to move to the next step if an unsafe condition is in place. In other words, if the pedestrian gate has not closed, the bridge operator cannot retract the span lock. If the span lock is not retracted, he cannot press the button and operate the bridge. All this is built in to all movable bridges. But, you know, I'm just pointing it out uh for the the public to understand that. And then, of course, there are span locks and centering devices that ensure that the bridge stays where it belongs. Uh let's talk about reliability. So, uh the last thing that we want to do is close and open the bridge with a pickup truck. That's something that we mentioned as a like kind of a last straw. But before that, there's quite a few things that have to go wrong. And let's talk about those. So, uh, the bridge is operated by two hydraulic cylinders. Cylinders are operated by hydraulic fluid. Hydraulic fluid is moved using an HPU. It's a hydraulic power unit. It's a device with motors and pumps and reservoirs that move the hydraulic fluid back and forth to make the cylinders move. inside of the HPU on this system, we're going to be using directional valves. Directional valves. And the reason this is important is that we're actually kind of moving back a little bit in technology. Um, this is uh a more robust older technology that is easier to maintain and can and the parts can be replaced more easily. uh we have a twin pump motor system meaning that there are two motors inside of the HPU and either one of them can be used to operate the bridge and uh the hoses can be bypassed. If a hose fails uh the hose system can be manually transition to another that means that there's a lot of internal redundancy inside of the operating machinery. On top of that, we have two cylinders that operate the bridge. And we're designing the structure so that it can operate with one cylinder. Now, this is obviously very useful for an emergency situation if you have some sort of a mechanical failure on the hydraulic cylinders, but also if you're performing maintenance, you can now remove a cylinder completely, send it for maintenance if that's needed, uh, and operate the bridge with one hydraulic cylinder. uh you can expect uh that significant maintenance would be needed uh say on the 15 to 20 years that's the kind of the pace of significant maintenance I want to point out a difference between Shabboan and 8th Street so 8th Street has very large hydraulic cylinders that are difficult to remove the hydraulic cylinders on Shbboan are about a tenth the size uh and are obviously above the deck which means that they can be removed by a forklift uh and shipping them is much easier as well. Um uh we have provided the ability for uh external generator power meaning a portable generator can operate the bridge in the event of a power outage. Uh and then of course manual operation with a winch and cable which could be uh attached to a a truck. Uh for maintenance we've uh developed a plan such that uh maintenance can be performed without any kind of equipment. No snoopers, no cables. You open a hatch, climb down some ladders and you can get to all the equipment on the span. We'll provide operating manuals and training to the for the city staff for the operation and maintenance activities. And there are no complicated drives or control cards on our in our design. And the operation uses a vector frequency drive. And what that means to you is that that's an off-the-shelf component. Many times drives on modern systems are custommade which means they have to be ordered sometimes 9 to 12 months in advance. That won't be the case on this bridge. Uh let's go on to cost. So our construction cost estimate has the bridge at $1.4 million. Uh when you add on uh the construction engineering and inspection, that's the folks that are out there making sure the contractor is doing his job and paying him. Uh that' be a total of $12.8 million. Um this cost is heavily motivated by the steel cost. Um right now we have the steel alone at $2.5 million. That's using a $10 per pound estimate. This estimate is really hard to nail down because of the way the economy is now and it's difficult to track uh the unit cost of steel. And just because it's such a big motivator, I kind of wanted to dive in and let you let you know. It's a we're using a very conservative number. Uh Wisconsin's uh average bid is $2.5 per pound. So, and why? So, why are we quadrupling the number? One is risk. We're building in risk to the cost. Secondly, the $2.5 per pound is really for straighter conventional eye gutters. And of course, this gutter is larger. It's curved. Um, it's going to limit who uh what uh fabricators are going to be have the capability to do it. So, that's why we had such an significant increase to this unit cost. Uh, one strategy that we've used to achieve low bid prices is using a contractor pre-qualification meeting. Um, often times, you know, we we build these plans, we put them out in the in the streets and a contractor has 30 days, sometimes 60 days to understand the plans, absorb them, get subcontractors, pricing, put it all together. So, it's a lot of a lot. And we have found that sometimes on these more complicate complex projects that contractors will build in their risk and you end up paying for it. So um you know one option is to give them more time uh in the bidding. Uh but we have found it more effective to have contractor pre-qualifi okay sorry a window popped up on my screen. Let me close it. Thanks. Uh contractor pre-qualification meeting. And that's actually meeting with industry who what people that we think are likely biders and talking to them about the project and getting some input, some feedback early on. We get better bids and we also get some nice free feedback from contractors because they tell us what concerns they have about our design. Um, uh, okay. Over the next couple of slides, I'm going to be talking about architectural staircases and bridge lighting. And I want to point out that our that these two features have not yet been approved by the city, the architectural staircase nor the uh aesthetic bridge lighting. But we did include the cost of them in the cost we've given you because uh it's better to give you a good sticker shock, not a negative sticker shock. So, just so know that the $530,000 that we estimate for those items is already included and would be removed if you didn't want these uh aesthetic features. So, uh so this is the idea of what the architectural staircases what the experience of them would be like. Uh these are not shabboan. This is just sort of the inspiration for them. And the idea is to have a place for congregation adjacent to the bridge but not on the movable span because we don't want people congregating on the span. This next is a series of pictures that would be uh uh concepts for uh bridge aesthetic bridge lighting. Um we are we have been speaking to uh aesthetic lighting experts. This is like actually like a a pretty refined specialty. The the firms that do this sort of bridge lighting, they'll provide you with what the final uh aesthetic appearance will be. And it's a bit of a specialty. It's not We we do some of it, but there's people that really just that's what they're dedicated to. The the entire firm's mission is aesthetic lighting. and questions. >> All right. Thank you for the presentation. We don't have any item on the agenda tonight to vote on. This was just forformational purposes before it gets sent to committees. But any questions from council members? >> Alder Prella. >> So a couple of questions just about the to clarify what is the vision that you have as far as um the frequency of opening it keeping it closed by open by default closing at needs. Um can you please speak to that since it is a you know an obvious concern and question. So, how do I So, that's not something that we dictate for the user. Uh, the way that functionally this works, obviously, it's an owner's choice. However, you are subject to the US Coast Guard and the direction that they provide and what they will allow you and how they will allow you to operate the span and that coordination. What what the Coast Guard will do is that they will reach out to mariners and solicits input from the users of the waterway and in order to accommodate the usage of the waterway. Um what I can the the what I can give you is um anecdotal information about what other users use do um on this in in one of the busiest areas that I know uh for waterways is the Miami River and the inter coastal waterway in Fort Lauderdale including the New River. Uh these are working rivers. They uh the Miami River is an industrial river. It has heavy barging. The New River is a um recreational river, but it also is a fabricator of recreational vessels, large sailboats, um yachts, things like that. those those bridges are almost all set to open uh on the half hour. Uh the inter coastal waterway is set to the hour and it's on the on the quarter. Some half half of them are 15 to 45 and the other ones are 30 and 1 hour. Um but keep in mind that those uh bridges are for um vehicular traffic. the demand is much higher, much more insistent. Uh you're talking about uh beachgoers crossing to go to the beach on Labor Day, right? Opposing this navigation traffic. Um this bridge could be could easily be left uh normally open and still perform its function. It could be um uh I think that this is something that both because the users are not remote. Often times one of the issues with uh waterways in other areas at that your users are not immediate. You know it could be someone coming from hundreds of miles away to cross the bridge. That's not the case here. The users for your bridge are intimately close. you are neighbors and you presume that there'd be a way for a compromise to be made that would be that would be useful for everyone. >> Follow up older Prello. >> Yes. Would you agree though that in order to before proceeding even we would need to establish what that frequency is because if if there was any red flag about frequency of opening and closes >> as you said since it is established by the user in this case by us >> then we would need to establish if it is you know um used enough if it can be open enough to justify such an investment. Right? So it isn't that something that we would need to understand or establish in more details before proceeding. >> Um it's difficult to uh quantify future need in in facilities that don't currently exist. If you have a bridge that exists, it has two lanes and you want to decide if it should have four lanes, that analysis is pretty straightforward. you look at your traffic, how many users want to use it. Um uh so the the need has been established on this project as I understand it chase due to safety. Keep in mind unfortunately for you I am the structural engineer not the traffic engineer. So um the uh I don't know I don't have an answer for you about the uh the need Do you have anything you want to >> No, I think Yeah, I think that's just something I think we'll have to have continued, you know, talks and we talked with Kevin. Do we do we designed for options, right? Make sure we can handle with loans in the open position for long periods of time. It sounds like that might be something we want to definitely want to consider is to have the options and consider that in our design plans. >> Well, I I can answer that at least. Sorry. Okay. So as far as the the design of the bridge, there is uh a requirement in the code that if a bridge remains in the open position normally, and I want to define that because I think there's some misunderstanding about what what normally means. If it's design bridge is held in the open position normally, then it must be designed for um uh uh stronger wind loads. But the idea there is that longer or left in normally means that no one is there to close it. You open it, you lock it and you walk away, which means there's some risk that someone may not be able to come back and close it, right? So that that's different than the bridge is open and then closes for pedestrian traffic. That's not normally open. Normally open means there's nobody there to close it. So then you have to uh and we've already tal talked about the the configuration of this bridge would make leaving it open fairly straightforward. There's we would have to add a locking device in the open position so that it would be it wouldn't be the machinery holding it open. It would be actually a lock and we there's a pretty straightforward way to do it. It wouldn't add very much cost. Um but again um the the the need is not the need for from a traffic perspective is not something that we've investigated. >> Thank you, >> Alder Decker. >> Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Um yes, I a couple quick questions. Um first of all, I just want to confirm that this uh this bridge in the closed position will have the same clearance as the A Street bridge. >> That's correct. >> Okay. And then the other question I have is is there any um bridges similarly in in Wisconsin or in a nearby state that that are that similar design that we can kind of compare to it all we can look at uh that's been built recently and and and and see how it's working. Uh, no. This is a a very unique structure primarily because it's a pedestrian bridge, movable bridge, and that's a fairly new um they they've come into vogue recently. A movable bridge, pedestrian bridges as movable bridge is not a something that a standalone movable bridge is not very common. Uh, in my career, I've only worked on two mov pedestrian bridges. And that's not because I haven't. It's just because the industry has not provided that opportunity. Um, that is not to say that this bridge type is altogether that innovative. This is I think the simplest design I've ever worked on. It's been great. I uh the it's a very straightforward bridge. Um the design is simple. The machinery design is simple. Um there's nothing about this structure that is um unusual. Honestly, we've been able to put together a design that looks very unique, but from an engineering concept perspective, it is not. >> Okay. Any followup, older Decker? >> Thank you, Alder Graine. >> Uh thank you for your presentation. I was just wondering would we have any idea approximately of how long it would take for the closing and opening of the bridge to be done? >> Yeah. So, uh the actual operation is, you know, honestly off top of my head, I can't remember. It's typically around 70 seconds. I think we held it at 70 seconds for actual operating time. Now, what usually takes longer are the boats clearing. That's usually so a typical operation would be on the order of uh 5 or 10 minutes and that is made up of uh clearing the span, closing the gates, disengaging the locks, operating the bridge. That's a very short period of time. Usually people focus on that, but that's not what takes a lot of time. Allowing the vessel to pass and then reversing everything. So the time sequence is the pe the the users moving around not the bridge operation itself. >> Follow up. Um you said that the this bridge is a little bit unique. There's not a lot of them but like other standard uh raising bridges and things like that. Um, is there anything out there that tells us whether like a schedule plan or um, you know, having set times for it would be better than like on call? >> I it's it's it's very very specific to the to the situation. I would say my my advice to you would be to start on call because that provides everyone with the most flexibility and then listen to each other and if there's an issue the the these things this it can be easily changed the schedule especially if you make it on call then it really becomes up to you what you do and the Coast Guard is not involved. If you set a schedule with the Coast Guard of certain times, you're stuck with that. Whatever agreements you make with the Coast Guard, you're stuck with those agreements. But if you keep it, you know, in the family, then you can make the adjustments yourself. >> Alder Ber, >> thank you, Mayor. Um, so I'm just thinking a little longer term here. Um, so you mentioned that we could expect maintenance in approximately 15 to 20 years. Mh. >> Um, could you give a couple examples of maintenance that we could expect and what would those costs be associated with those? >> Okay. So, routine maintenance is uh greasing or or lubricating the hydraulic cylinder. There are lubrication points that are that are uh attached to the bridge. Basically, this means once or twice a week sending maintenance crews out there for about an hour to lubricate the the cylinder. If you do this well, you will greatly lengthen the uh usable life of your hydraulic cylinders. Um, typical maintenance on a on a hydraulic cylinder uh that has been well-maintained is replacing gaskets and seals. Um this work can be done in the field. Uh often times it's it's uh uh more cost effective to remove the cylinder and take it to some place to be uh to for that to be done. um the the cylinders on if you you cannot use 8 Street as an example a comparison because it's a completely different scale structure internally. The cylinders on Shbboan are going to be a tenth of the size of the of the cylinders on uh H Street. and you you don't have the same difficulties of removing them uh because of their size, because of the fact that those are inside of a pier. As far as cost goes, I hesitate to give you uh exact cost cuz it depends on the variability, but I I I can give you a large range. Uh, I would say somewhere between $15,000 and $100,000 for a foot per cylinder every 15 to 20 years. >> Any followup, holder? >> Um, so thank Yes. Just one. So, hypothetically, if we were to have to remove if you were to have to remove one of the cylinders, which I think you said may happen, if that was the case, the bridge would then be inoperable for >> No. No, >> because you would do one cylinder at a time. >> Okay. >> So that you can continue to operate the bridge with one cylinder and then you remove one bridge one one cylinder ship it to if if you if it turned out to be more cost effective to do the repair. Now mind you, even if you were doing the the gasket repair on site while that was going on, that cylinder would be inoperable. So, in this case, because you have another cylinder that can operate it, it's probably better to just remove it, take it to a shop, get the get rehabilitate the cylinder, and bring it back. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Alder Kelly. >> Hi. Um, so I've got two questions if that's okay. So, the my first question is, um, how much can this design change? I just have a concern over if we're investing this money to make the pedestrian experience in this area better. It seems like there's a couple elements like that. Um one section on the the east side of the river where you had said that people would have to walk around the the structure. I I worry that that would be an annoyance to people walking compared to what exists now. Um whereas on the opposite side, it sounded like there was going to be room to still walk under there. I think that sounds good. So, I'm just a little worried if we're going to make the pedestrian experience for regular boardwalk users or regular um people that walk along that river might be a degraded experience. >> Yeah, I think thank you. Um and I think right now we're still in the NEPA environmental phase, right? So, we haven't officially signed off on the preferred alternative. Um, so you know, I think there is still flexibility if we did want to incorporate some changes in design. I'd say right now, you know, I think we've we've tried to balance, you know, what we're our goal here with with meeting, you know, matching the eighth street clearances um without excessively exceeding them just because of the cost that we've seen, you know, and as soon as we, you know, if we make it so that there's an underpass on that side, there is a little area you'd have to walk around. It's I had it measured and I forgot what it was. It wasn't I remember thinking it's pretty minimal. Um it is a little bit that you'd have to walk around there. Um but if we were to raise it up right to get the clearance, I think we'd be talking oh I want to say another at least 5 ft of height at that location which is obviously going to you know add the cost considerably. Um so we we had looked at some different clearances and vertical clearances and I think you know soon if you I want to say if you go an extra 10 ft you're looking at an extra million dollars. So, it's it's kind of balancing that at what's important, but I think there still is an opportunity if that was a strong thing that consensus to look at some of that. I think we could still incorporate some changes if that was desired. >> Another um another point here, we talked about this a lot by the way because we really wanted to maintain the continuity on both sides. The problem is, especially on the east side, there's a price to pay and touchdown point. So if we raise up that side 5T to get underneath, you end up extending uh 500 ft uh out to so you end up in in the middle of the street. Right now for you know ADA the path is longer but not significant longer. And for for people who can climb stairs you're really just deviating to I don't have a mouse. You know see the brown stairs right there. you can just you can walk up and down those stairs and get across. So, it's a fairly small deviation. >> And then um >> second one. >> Yeah, my followup is um I with the pedestrian detour um it looked like it was a fairly significant detour on the side with um the restaurants like Parker John's. Is the whole boardwalk coming out during this construction or is it just a more limited thing and the the detour was just where the next pedestrian access was to the boardwalk? So on this side we can go under, right? >> Yeah. So on this side, if you look at the the brown area was is that's the area really that we're looking to reconstruct. So that that larger square area, there's an existing ADA ramp there that we would plan to remove. And that we have two ADA ramps, one on the north side and one on the south side to replace it. So that's really about as much uh boardwalk re reconstruction as we'd anticipate. Um, so it's uh the reason it extends to the north uh as you go underneath the blue structure is because we had to lower it. We had to remove those stairs there to get the clearance we need for for uh people to walk underneath. And so in order to get that clearance, we had to lower that section and ramp it up at an ADA uh maximum ramp uh that's allowable. Uh, so it's it's it's fairly minimal I think for for the boardwalk reconstruction, but yeah, in terms of the detour route itself, it extends a lot further out just because trying to find an ADA accessible trail, right? You could have a soft closure there and then you could have a hard closure once you get closer up here that's just like, okay, please, you can't go into this construction zone. >> Alder Pors, >> thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, so you're starting to touch on the topic that I wanted to um ask you about, which is ADA accessibility. Um I noted that in the drawings one side shows a ramp um indicated in red, the other side does not. So is the other side at uh bridge level and there is no need for it. >> Yeah. And I have to admit that drawing has since been updated. At one point we thought we weren't going to be able to get that ramp under uh 5%. We since have have have corrected that. So there will be two ramps on that side. Um I think the one that's existing is pretty close to where the red is right now. And then the other one that we would plan to add is next directly adjacent to Parker John's. We'd eliminate those stairs. I think there's three stairs. So we would plan to have two ramps that are ADA accessible on that side. >> But on this side there is no need for the ramp >> and then sorry on the east side. >> The east side I think yeah and the whole bridge itself right is is ADA obviously with with the slopes that we have. But um yeah, the ADA so I think you know the bridge approach you can see where the structure ends there is the blue and then there's a little bit of bridge approach. I don't know if it's about 50 ft. Um so that's kind of the the path uh that that someone in a wheelchair would take. >> That's right. Around that there's no need for uh any ramps. So, um, and to Alder Kelly's point, uh, if the boardwalk does not pass under the bridge on that side, it is more of a, um, it is more prohibitive for somebody in a wheelchair to get around that and continue on the boardwalk. That is a further distance for them. Um, they wouldn't easily be able to cross over that then at that point in time. Correct. >> Uh, you they cannot cross the blue, >> right? >> That's correct. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. >> Alder Pr. >> Thank you. I have just one quick question if I can. Yeah. Um, how noisy is the the bridge to operate when it opens and closes? Does it generate a noise? >> It's not noisy at all. >> It would be difficult to hear actually this. So, you get more noise on uh electrical gear machinery uh or even machineries with trunions sometimes get popping. But a rolling lift like this with hydraulic cylinder, it would be the only noise I can imagine is if you started to get like whistling sounds from the HPU. That's a failure. That's not a normal that that would be indication of some maintenance needed. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it. More to come. All right. Next item on the the agenda is mayor's announcements. Uh for the sake of the meeting today, we do have other pressing matters. So, I will uh skip my announcements for this evening. Next, we'll jump into the items on the consent agenda, items 11 through 24. Alder Boris, >> I move to accept and file all reports and adopt all resolutions. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Under discussion, Alder Boris. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I would like to uh ask a few questions if I could specific to the items on the agenda related to the MRO's. There are several. Um item 18, 19, 21, 22, 23. I think I got all of them. Um but I had a few questions if I could. Um, first, uh, Director Zinert, um, planning, could you talk to some of the questions that have been asked, um, outside of council in, um, emails to alders and things of that nature regarding changes to the processes that govern the development agreements and the MRO's in general. Could you speak to those changes, what they are, and why they exist at this point in time? >> Yes, absolutely. uh the city is is always looking at ways that we can refine our processes and things of that nature to make to make them more efficient. With that being said, uh the city had looked at the development agreement that holds that holds the developer and the council to the development specifically the MRO payment, the municipal re revenue obligation payment. Uh with that being said, we felt that the development agreement could be tweaked and changed just to make sure that it's most efficient. With that being said, the resolution language has been changed to make sure that once the development agreement is passed, the the resolution mirrors that to make sure that it does not have to re return back to council specifically for that MRO payment. So the the ch the change was to make it more efficient. >> Thank you. And and to follow up on that, um there's also a change to uh or there has been a change not specific to these items necessarily, but with the commencement um as well. Correct. That's something that's been added so that consistently going forward commencement of a project is now more clearly defined than it would have been in the past. Is that accurate? >> That is. Yes. The city did not have a formal process when it came to the commencement notice. Staff had identified that as a area that we could improve. With that being said, that process is is now more formalized. >> Thank you. Two more questions, Mr. Mayor, please. Um, so, Administrator Bradley, um, regarding the MRO, and again to address, you know, concerns that have come up from constituents, um, is MRO a debt? That would be my first first part of my question. And secondly, um what checks and balances exist in order to ensure that MRO is managed appropriately once they have been approved by council? >> Yes. Uh so MRO as uh director Ziner pointed out is is called a municipal revenue obligation. It is not a debt. It is not a liability to the city. It's simply an agreement that says we will return a portion of revenue if the revenue does not occur. that is spelled out in the development agreement. Uh essentially if if worst case scenario uh the value fell um or expenses the priority payments which means the city expenses exceed um the available MRO then nothing would be paid to the developer. So at no point does it become an obligation to the citizens that it would be something that we would have to levy for to make up any shortfall or um any expense related to the MRO. Um now as far as the checks and balance um what is actually being issued by uh the finance director is essentially a payment an estimated payment schedule um at the start of the project. Um the way an MRO works over the life is that that payment is readjusted each and every year before a payment is ever made. So um as we know council sets the levies every year as a part of that process that changes the MRO. The value of a project changes over the life of its project. So um in you know some of our rehabilitation TIDs are a 27year TID. So there's 27 recalculations of that mero schedule. So what is being issued by the finance director is essentially an estimate of what will be paid over that 27-year period. And then every year as a part of the budget process, the council approves a TID budget for each and every TID that includes what's been calculated. Um and that would be an opportunity for council to review the 27 different payments that are made over the life of that that specific MRO. when that TID uh likewise there is an annual report that is submitted to the joint review board where they review it. We just entered into an agreement with Ellers and Associates. So a uh more in-depth report will be given to the joint review board and council. So um throughout this entire process obviously it goes to committee of the whole it goes to the um the various subcommittees and then ultimately all of council and then it will also go to the joint review board annually. So this will be reviewed multiple times for each and every payment. The MRO that's being issued is not a payment. It's an estimated schedule that's outlaid in the development agreement. >> Okay. Thank you. And then one final question, Mr. Mayor. um for um our finance director for uh director um Krueger, could you um just explain the what what administrator Bradley already described to us, but could you explain the process that you go through on an annual basis um for budget and how council is responsible for approving the MRO on an annual basis? >> Sure. >> Bear with me. I'm I've lost my voice over this weekend. um happy to explain. So every year the council adopts the levy amount um for the general fund and all the other operating um of and capital debt funds. That amount is determined um and then placed um against the expected value or guaranteed value that's supposed to be having occurred um in those projects. So the TID um has its every TID has its own fund um and that comes forward in the large packet that you can get see online every year um for each um payment. It's underneath the developer incentives line items. So those are called out in the budget annually. I also would like to mention that the payments and before finance issues those checks to any developer, we actually go through a review process to make sure that the taxes were paid as they should be and are required to be paid by the developers annually. So we check that, make sure the value is still consistent with what has been required by the development agreement and then calculate based on those items and checks. Uh that's when we finally issue the payments. So we do a couple different variations of those calculations. We do our first estimated um which is included in budget and we finalize those typically in September or October based on the development agreement requirement for payment. Thank you for that. Um and then it's my understanding that going forward with future development agreements, we will see the um anticipated MRO schedule included in the developer agreement. um and understanding that on a year-over-year basis with um levy amounts with the uh varying yeartoear etc with the taxes collected etc. Those will change in terms of what is approved but the estimated amounts for the schedule over the 27-year period will initially be included in the development agreement. Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. The plan moving forward isn't to conclude a draft of that expected schedule right away in the development agreement so that there isn't any question on what that MRO looks like um ahead of council's approval. >> Perfect. Thank you very much. Thank you, Morer. >> Any other further discussion on any of the items on the consent agenda? Seeing none, this is a roll call vote. 10 eyes. >> All right, those items are approved. Next under resolutions, item 25, resolution number 992627 by Alders Decker, amending the updated city of Shboan business revolving loan fund program manual. Alder Decker. >> Thank you, mayor. I ask to suspend the rules. Any objection to suspending the rules? Hearing none, please proceed with your motion. >> I move to adopt the resolution. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Under discussion, Alder Bors. >> Um, could we just have an explanation of why we are suspending the rules on this item? >> City administrator. >> Yes. Um, so couple different things here. So, we've been bringing this up uh multiple times, I think, over the last couple years. Uh we've been working on trying to uh make changes to the revolving loan program. Um my entire tenure, I believe, uh finance director Krueger actually started this about four years ago. Um so, this has been an ongoing effort to update all of our CDBG programs. Um we've been working extensively with HUD uh through this process. they actually brought in technical assistance to help us through this um just to uh make program changes um to make sure that we're fully in compliance and we're following best practices. So um this has been a very long process of auditing almost every single loan that has been made um in all the various programs. So um as a part of that we've been working with RDA. Obviously the RDA is a significant portion of the business loan side of this. So um in working with HUD uh they made it very clear on the expectations of what they want to see um going forward out of our program and um RDA I think we spent the last two meetings um going through the manual um and we've been talking about it for quite some time. So, um, essentially what HUD said was they wanted to see us get this adopted this month. So, that's why we're at the suspend and adopt, but this has been something 3 to four years in the making of getting to this point. Uh, and the RDA chair is here as well. Uh, since this originated in your committee, Chair Flicky Pinesky, additional comments that you'd like to add? I'd just like to second how long we've been working. >> Please introduce yourself. >> I am Robera Felicki Pineski. I am chair of the redevelopment authority and thank you for that commentary. And I also want to thank city staff because there has been hours of input with this as well as my colleagues on the redevelopment authority because they have been very diligent and very patient as we have worked with HUD that have attended our meetings recently. Um the revolving loan fund is about a $3.5 million pocket. Uh right now we have just under $2.5 million on the street with about a dozen businesses in the city of Shabboan and we have an additional 1.2 million or so that is yet available. So I would look at the alders and say it's available for your constituents if they want to create new jobs in the city and if they want to deploy capital improvements with anything in the designated area in the city in need of redevelopment. So there's there's just under $1.5 million worth waiting to get onto the streets. And if you know of anybody that does that, I know two people sitting over there who would be happy to discuss it with you. So continue and thank you very much. Appreciate the time. >> Thank you, city administrator. Um just on the the functional side of what what's really changing here the the biggest overall change there's um some setting of various parameters there's uh kind of a window of 1 to 4% for loans uh the current practice on on the business loan was prime plus plus one yes um so that that's a significant change but ultimately what'll happen is RDA will now make a direct referral for a recommendation ation of approval of a a loan application and that'll come directly to council. So the final vote um in this process will be by council and not just from from the RDA committee and that was that was a direct requirement of HUD. Um so that's ultimately why we're here. What you'll see is there's a very well-defined process, a very well- definfined manual. Um, but ultimately we're we're doing this with all of the HUD programs and working our way through that. And I just wanted to say uh thank you to the finance director Krueger for all of her work. Um, this is, as I said, um, it's been a lot of hours with the RDA. Um, but it's been hundreds of hours, um, on the other loan programs. I think we went back to the 1990s. Um, and we're going through uh deeds that were put on properties and things like that. So, um, there's been a lot of staff uh, in the finance department. I believe uh, we had some some title companies that got involved to help out with this process. So, um, a lot of work has went into that and um, director Ziner and her staff and all the work that they've done on the policy and procedure side. It's been extensive. Uh this has been a a really big project that's involved a lot of folks. Um even at the HUD office, they've brought in multiple resources to help guide us through this process and um develop best practices. So um great working effort by all of our staff. Elder Prello, >> I just have a question about the CDBG program. So will all the projects that historically had been um to which had u funds from the CDBG program were uh deployed where all those are going to go through the RDA now or is there a different um section of the money for the C of the CDBG program that is allotted and decided outside of RDA. >> Finance director. >> Sure. We are going to make um be bringing forward loans both um from RDA on the business side and then finance and personnel will soon be seeing the home loans that for rehabilitation that homeowners can uh apply for. Finance and personnel will see those loans coming through. So they will be final approval at common council moving forward for anything with the loan program. When it is related to activities within the consolidated plan or the annual action plan, those are items that are typically budgeted for or brought through with budget amendments and contracts and the common council would adopt those at those times. >> May I have a followup? >> Yes, >> a quick followup. So just to clarify a nonprofit that historic that operates in in this industry and that historically had CDBG funds who is going to decide again about that. That process will not change. Currently those come forward every year with a recommendation from a staff committee or a committee um that can kind of get introduced to those uh nonprofits and based on the consolidated plan which gives us the let's say leading um factor or initiatives that the city has focused on for example current is the unhoused population is what our consolidated plan is focused on currently. So those come forward annually for approval through the annual action process. So that will still go to finance and personnel and the common council. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. Seeing no more discussion, this is a roll call vote. >> 10 eyes. >> Thank you. Those that is approved. Next is a contemplated close session. And just before we make the motion, just for the viewers uh and for the public, we're going to be convening into close session to confer with legal counsel uh and discuss possible investment of public funds regarding the flock contract. Uh we'll be coming back in open session for discussion and uh some comments from the the police chief. >> Yep. Alder Boris, >> I move to convene in close session under the exemption contained in Wisconsin statute S 19.8518. 851A for the purpose of deliberation concerning the non-renewal of beverage operators license number 5255 for David Penny and under the exemption contained in Wisconsin statute S19.851G for the purpose of discussion related to a possible investment of public funds to wit the city of Shbboan's contract with flock safety. >> Second. >> Thank you moved and second. This is a roll call vote. This is a roll call vote. >> 10 eyes. >> Right. We'll adjourn in open session and we'll convene in close session and we will reconvene into open session once close session is concluded. All right, it's 8 o'clock. We'll >> Yeah, no worries. Okay. Oh, all right. Alder Boris, >> I move to reconvene in open session. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. Will the clerk call the role? >> Get it up. >> What's ever easier? >> Just call it. Yeah. >> Sorry. >> Alder person Boris. Yay. >> Alder person Bzer. >> Here. >> Alder person Close. >> Yay. >> Alder person Decker. >> Yay. >> Alder person Graine. >> Yeah. >> Alder person Heidman. >> Alder person Kelly. >> Alder person Mensor. >> Alder person Mitchell. >> Alder personel. >> All right. We are back in open session. Item 28. Report 252627 by the licensing hearing and public safety committee submitting findings of facts and conclusions of law based upon testimony and exhibits presented by a quasi judicial hearing held on August 24th 2026 regarding beverage operating license number 5255. Alder Boris >> I move to accept and file report to non-renew license number 5255 >> moved and seconded. Further discussion on this matter. Seeing none, this is a roll call vote. >> Alder person Boris >> I. >> Alder person Bzer. >> Hi. >> Alder person Close. >> Hi. >> Alder person Decker. >> Hi. >> Alder person Grain. >> Hi. >> Alder person Heidman. >> Hi. >> Alder person Kelly. >> Hi. >> Alder person Mensor. >> Hi. >> Alder person Mitchell. >> Hi. >> Alder personel. >> Hi. >> 10 eyes. >> All right. That is approved. Next item 29, resolution number 100 2627 by elders Boris and Heidman directing city staff to terminate the city's agreement with Flock Group Inc. DBA Flock Safety and to not appropriate funds for the 2027 budget for flock safety services. Alder Boris, >> I ask to suspend the rules. >> Any objection to suspending the rules? >> Hearing none, please proceed with your motion. >> I move to adopt the resolution. >> Moved and seconded. All right, I'll call on the chief of police to tee us up on this one. Chief, >> thank you, Mayor. I I wanted to give a little bit of background uh about the history of how we got here with the use of license plate reader technology. Also to talk about how we use it, um what our policy is and uh uh just some of the um uh basically circumstances that led to the um to the breach uh what we believe is a breach of the uh master services agreement. Uh so first of all um automated license plate reader technology is not new technology. Uh it's been around for a long time. We have had uh since about 2014 um at least one uh Alper unit. So Alper is the abbreviation for automated license plate reader. Um, we had that on a on one of our squads as a mobile unit and uh there was a cooperative agreement with many agencies in southeast Wisconsin where data was hosted by the Greenfield Police Department and it allowed access for other agencies to read uh plate reads across uh the participating agencies. uh the Alper system previously and I just want to clarify um just like what Flock uses today, it only captures still images of a vehicle and its plate uh when it was picked up by the camera that it drove past, which provides a date and time stamp and location that could later be searched. uh Flock platform has expanded on those capabilities and allowed uh vehicles to be searched by des other descriptors beyond just the license plate as you heard earlier and uh became more broadly used in the early 2020s by police agencies and private businesses, gated communities, etc. Um it actually started as a as a uh um a system for gated communities to allow um automated access uh to vehicles for residents there um without having to swipe a card. Uh the goal was uh for information to more easily be shared across jurisdictional boundaries because as you know crime doesn't necessarily respect our jurisdictional boundaries and we have cases that that lead outside of our jurisdiction and come here from outside our jurisdiction. Uh, in fact, uh, just so you're aware, the first flock cameras that we were aware of in the city of Shboen were actually at the Aurora Medical Center campus. I don't believe that they still have those cameras there. So, in 2023, the state of Wisconsin offered grants to all law enforcement agency agencies to help, uh, support equipment, training, uh, and officer wellness. Uh the Shbboen Police Department used that grant for a couple of things, but in part we used it to pay for the first two years of service with Flock, which this council approved in December of 2023. When we established the partnership with Flock, we trained our entire department on on our policy with the use of Alpers uh with the firm message that anyone who abused the system simply wouldn't work at the Shabboan Police Department anymore. After their installation in early 2024, the cameras have been instrumental in countless investigations, including to help identify suspect vehicles and serious violent crimes, recovering stolen vehicles and other property, assisting in hit-and-run crashes, and even helping to locate vehicles associated with missing persons or missing endangered persons. I should point out there are many times when the use of an Alper system does not result in any investigative leads at all. And the vast majority of the cases where we do get leads are uh involve vehicles and plate captures from our own network of cameras in Shabboan. However, the ability to share data with other police agencies has al also often been helpful when suspects leave our jurisdiction. This includes the homicide that took place in January where two Milwaukee men came here and shot a Shboan resident. Uh we had over the summer a serious domestic violence assault that involved two people passing through our community who were later located in Green Bay. Uh and they were identified uh really with the assistance of flock cameras and and probably would not have been identified without that. Uh there was a significant industrial burglary this spring um where the vehicle was observed leaving um uh in Ozaki County with uh the stolen items as it was southbound on I43. Uh we had a silver silver alert. Uh so this is a a system where jurisdictions are notified when there's an at risk um older adult who has uh maybe gone for a long drive and and gotten lost. Um we had one of those earlier this summer that was uh that came into Shabboan and was uh we were alerted of that person here uh because their vehicle drove past one of our flock cameras. These are just a few examples of many cases that have been solved at least in part with information from the cameras. I also want to emphasize how our policy requires that we use license plate reader information. They're used to generate investigative leads. That's all. Any law enforcement action must be supported by corroborating information, not solely based on plate reads from the Alper cameras. Our policy specifically prohibits acting solely on Alper alerts that cannot be verified by other means. It also requires that only trained and authorized department members may use it. And just like any other system we access in the course of our duties, and there are many that uh provide us access to sensitive personal information, it may only be used for official law enforcement purposes. Officers using the system must provide a case number and the nature of the investigation as part of their search record. We've been using Flock's auditing tool for several months. In fact, we were in the group of departments that beta tested their auditing system, which helps to flag potentially suspicious searches, such as multiple searches for the same plate or searches outside the 30-day retention period. Each of those searches is required to be reviewed by a supervisor to determine compliance with our policy. And let me be clear, we have never discovered an unauthorized use of the Albert system by any of our personnel. As a result of the training and internal accountability we have in place, there are no instances of abuse of the technology here within our department. We recognize that Flock license plate reader system is a powerful investigative tool that creates privacy concerns, especially when the information collected is used inappropriately. And unfortunately, you don't have to look very far uh for examples of where that's taken place. Ultimately, in a free society, we can only police in ways that are tolerated by our community. And we've worked very hard over the years to earn the trust of the Shabboan community by treating everyone with dignity, respecting individual constitutional rights, and building relationships in our neighborhood so that we can solve crime and quality of life problems together. This is why we believe data security and accountability are critical to community trust for any system we use that can contain records of sensitive personal information. And in Flock's master services agreement, which is attached to the agenda, uh they highlighted the statements that Flock does not own and shall not sell either customer data or anonymized data. It's also why we adhered to a 30-day retention policy for Alpert data as a means of balancing the interest in identifying vehicles involved in contemporaneous crimes and other incidents against the legitimate privacy concern if records were maintained for an extended period of time. In late July, as part of a cav casual conversation between the captain of our patrol division and the city engineer, we learned that the department of public works received an email in March from our flock sales rep offering to provide traffic counts, vehicle types, and speeds uh collected by our existing cameras for use by the engineering department to analyze road usage as an alternative to the rubber hose pressure switches that we've all driven across. Uh the email indicated that Flock could provide 5 years worth of data updated every 30 minutes. This was the first that we were made aware in late July of Flock's attempt to sell data from our cameras outside of our agreement. I spoke to our Flock rep at a conference on about August 8th uh confirming that he sent the email and that they were offering anonymized data collected by our existing camera infrastructure. Since then, they provided additional uh information explaining the discre discrepancy regarding the retention period. While the master services agreement allows Flock to collect anonymized data like that described in the email for development, diagnostic, and corrective purposes, the agreement again indicates that Flock does not own and shall not sell this data. Given the existing concerns about data integrity and privacy with such a powerful tool and the apparent conduct by Flock that is inconsistent with security and ownership rights and obligations under the agreement. We believe it is in the best interest of the city and particularly the trusting relationship between our police department and community to discontinue uh use of flock services immediately. I want to reiterate that we firmly believe that responsible police use of even emerging technologies is an important part of providing public safety and that discontinuing the use of flock cameras or any other alper system will limit our ability to solve crime and provide justice for victims. In short, I believe overall our community is less safe if police do not have access to such technologies. But that access has to be consistent with our community's expectations and in a way that builds trust and legitimacy. That means that we have to rely on our technology partners to behave in ways that support community trust as well. We have made no decisions about replacing flock technology and it is our intent to consider alternatives with the input of the community's elected representatives just as we had discussed and addressed many community concerns uh with many of you alders already. uh uh concerns that have come to us directly or been filtered through you as their representatives and that's consistent with our collaborative and responsive approach to public safety. My hope is that we continue to cultivate the positive partnership that we have with our community while using available resources including technology like this to provide justice and protection to victims and to maintain safe, vibrant and welcoming uh the safe, vibrant and welcoming characteristics of our community. We look forward to working with the council toward our goal of making Shabuan the safest city of its size in the country. Thank you. >> Thank you, police chief Boris. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, I just wanted to say thank you for that thorough review. Um, Chief Zimple, I think that the history of the use of this technology in the community is important for everybody to understand. I think the appropriate use of the technology by the department is also very important for people to understand. um and the concerns in terms of the you know MSA potential violation of trust if you will with flock being the um ultimate um guiding factor for you know the genesis of this decision. So thank you for sharing all of that with us tonight. >> Alder Close. >> Thank you. And I also want to thank you very much for your commitment and the attention to detail looking into and scrutinizing contracts. As we know, the city operates with a large number of different vendors and being able to scrutinize those vendors can often be very difficult. So, when those uh issues are brought forward and we're actually uh seeing the action take place and the city administrator and the police chief are taking action and looking through these different contracts and making sure they're consistent with the expectations of how the city operates. It's really good to see and I do believe that it goes a long way to building that relationship with the city like you mentioned earlier. Thank you. >> Thank you, Alder Close. Any other discussion on this item? Alder Prola? >> Um, it is not directly related, but if you could mention please, you mentioned before that you intend to there is no plan to replace Flock and that you intend to um uh gather more feedback from the community. What is that you have in mind? If you can briefly uh speak to that. Do you mean what we have in mind about the process of vetting it or uh >> that's correct. >> Um so one of the concerns that has come up with this type of technology is its impact on uh minority communities. I I think it's reasonable for us to consider how to involve their input in uh in vetting uh technology and and uh in also getting input in our policy and and how we use it. Um it's certainly something that uh policy review is something that we've discussed with the uh police and fire commission as well um in their oversight role. While they're not an optional powers board, I certainly think that they uh act as representatives of the community as well. Uh and also we have the licensing hearing and public safety committee uh to uh to have those discussions uh publicly as well. >> All right. Any other discussion? All right. Seeing no more, this is a roll call vote. >> 10 eyes. >> All right, that is approved unanimously. All right, we've exhausted our agenda for this evening. Alder Boris, what is your pleasure? >> I move to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Moved and seconded. All those in favor of adjourning, state I. >> I. >> We'rejourned at 8:16. Good night, everybody. >> What's that? >> Yeah.