CONFRONTING G. CRAIGE LEWIS @PRDirector1 | WITH SPECIAL GUEST FRED PRICE JR @EIFMinistries

Heat. Heat up here. Heat up here. Heat up here. Yo, slandering other brothers for the lame game, but that's your main aim. Congratulations, G. You gain fame, manipulating folks to agree with the way that you think. What's next? Give all your followers some Kool-Aid to drink. You just love stunning the crowd while you run at the mouth and proceed to speak on a topic you know nothing about. You and your clan had us already planned. You didn't have the decency to call us that lead. You're hardly a man. went to David. God sent the prophet Nathan. He didn't disgrace him and gossip about him to the congregation. You're not a prophet. You just profited others expenses. How much profit do you pocket after you cover expenses? You found your market. Your target isn't the harvest. Spreading dirt on the names of fellow Christian artists. We're in this for the money. Do the math and you'll find you make more money than most Christian rappers combined. True. We got a work job for the sake of our children. You're in the church case in the building and making a killing. We minister to a culture that's in need of redemption. You're just a bitter, jealous, angry man seeking attention. Oh, taking everything out of context. No one's trying to kill you. Great. Come up out of that mart complex. Hip hop's a religion. You got to be kidding. I think you mean the zoodle nation. There's an obvious difference. Gospel rapper instead of hip hop. As if there's a difference. Forget your braces. You want us to ring your wishes. Spread the misinformation. Boy, you mustn't escape. Consider this an invitation to a public debate. But wait, know when you pray, you won't even address my valid points. You cop out and call me demon possessed. You claim to far from reality. I picked out your website. You have a cultish mentality. I see you ain't rap tight. So DMA stands for gay men with AIDS. Is that something that a mature save man would say? Not only are you ignorant CRA or sensitive ways concerning the issue with AIDS and more than half of these churches has a lack of discernment. True. That's why half of these pastors seeking happiness and I say this loving I can. If I saw you publicly man I can you bust right where you stand on your com challenge to do a debate. Your confidence bubbles break through. You're the greatest. It seems so courageous but you're a backstabbing coward. You refuse to debate. Yeah. What will happen when you run out of the rocks at end and end up one DVD shock that instead of fretting if hip hop is wrong in the church do a DVD on a tab no longer the church crying she might even have to bother with this. Let me get back to being about my father's Christmas exper back at the back. You will answer for every word of gossip. You will answer for every believer that you have ever judged. Judgment is reserved for God, and you don't qualify. Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, saying unto them, when I bring the sword upon the land, if the people of the land take a man of their coast, and set him for their watchmen, if when he see the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet and warn the people. Then whosoever hear the sound of the trumpet and take not warning, If the sword come and take him away, his blood should be upon his own head. He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning, his blood shall be upon him, but he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul. But if the watchman sees the sword come and blow not the trumpet and the people be not warned. If the sword come and take any person from amongst them, >> he is taken away in his iniquity. But his blood will I require at the watchman's hand. Yes. Were many um accusations at that time. Now they've been established as charges, but they were accusations from two or more witnesses that G. Craig Lewis had uh had his girlfriend sitting on the front row 10 feet away from his wife. Um, G. Craig Lewis's first cousin, who used to be an elder in the church, came out and said, "I have pictures, photos, and videos from G. Craig Lewis's PC hard drive that demonstrate that he's been sexually active with numerous women in that church. We also had situations where uh, Brother Antoine came on our first live and he was like, "Yeah, you know, there was a sister, real good uh, friend of the family. She came out uh, she used to go to the church, then she stopped going. We never knew why, but then after we left, she told us, "Yeah, I had to leave because G. Craig Lewis flashed his genitals to me." >> Um, I'm sorry. Then that was being told to his wife, Brother Anton's wife. That was the situation. We also started coming into situations where, um, you started dropping videos where G. Craig Lewis is on video with some woman, you know, flashing her body. We see other things. Sister Leadonna Jackson comes out and says, "Let me give you even more detail." And so we start to see and then you have a letter uh from a a person who was I think you may have said a drug addict. Uh she may have been an ex drug addict, whatever. But she gave her testimony that G. Craig Lewis was was having uh sexual relations with her and giving her money from the church. How did she know it was from the church? Because it was a Gmail account that he would transfer money over to her. So we were getting numerous reports of sexual uh behavior that was completely off the chart uh for anybody. um and to and and to have uh some of these charges come out where G. Craig Lewis was being known for sexually spoiling these women and then passing them off to unsuspecting men and marrying them off and then being that pastor. And so for me, I was like, "Wait a minute, man. I listen, let me be clear, brothers and sisters. I I haven't been saved all my life. I know what a crackhead looked like. I know what a heroin head look like. I know what a drug addict looked like. I've been around them. I got him in my family. I know how all that it's grimy. I know how all that stuff gets down. Stick up, man. I get that. I can understand them. >> A pastor like G. Craig Lewis, man, that's a different beast to me. >> Yeah. >> And so when I look at him, I'm like, he is the most, without exaggeration now, he is the most wicked man I've ever encountered on a personal level in my entire life. I only been here for a few few years after 50. I'm I'm in my early 50s, but he is the most disgusting and perverted human being I've ever met in my life. >> Well, y'all, welcome to the BCV broadcast. I am your host, Pastor Single Woods, and welcome to this Soccast broadcast live. We are here in the building. I'm glad to see everyone here. I have my uh my guest, Brother Billy, Brother Kevin, Brother Teton. They're waiting in the green room momentarily. We'll be bringing them on shortly. Please do me a favor. Please like the video, share the video. We've had a little bit of a technical difficulty. So, please share this information. Please share this video. It is very, very important to put this content and this information out. Please also subscribe to AB Exabc also Righteous Judgment. Of course, this channel as well too. This is a joint collaborative effort. We want to get this information out. The truth of God's word is at stake and this is why we are here tonight. And so I'm I'm I'm I appreciate and thank all of you and those of you who are here uh to take time out of your busy schedule to be witness of information that I believe by God's holy grace is going to change many of your lives and hopefully the lives of those who are who are still held captive in this cult of ABC which I call another bad cult. Not adamant believers council but another bad cult. So not going any formalities the information is below. If you want to support the support this ministry you can do that. Also support EXABC support uh channel support righteous judgment channel. Support channels that are putting out the truth of God's word in these last and evil days. I want to also share a verse of scripture because I believe this is important for us as we start off. As you saw in the in the intro and in the comments as well, we have a lot to unpack. Have a lot to unpack. So listen, get a snack, put the kids to bed. I'm going to tell you right now, some of this is viewer discretion is is advised. If you have underage children, we're not going to have any profanity or anything like that, but there may be some things that we discuss and some scenes that may be too uh mature for young audiences and young eyes to to see. So, letting you know up front now to uh put the kids in another room or go ahead get ready get have them get ready for bed because this is going to be adult conversation for mature believers only. And we want to address the issues regarding uh G. Craig Lewis confronting G. Craig Lewis and and I'm grateful to the Lord that I am not doing this alone. I have other brothers in the body of Christ and sisters in the Lord in the body of Christ who are standing who are standing locked arm and shoulder with with yours truly and others of like-mindedness that we are here to take on the enemy head on but with the word of God not with our own tools and our own way of doing things. Titus chapter 1 verse 5. The scripture says, "For this reason I left you in that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you. Namely, if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. For the overseer, yeah, pastor, bishop, elder, must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, but not not fond of sort of gain, but hospitable. Verse eight, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-control. You hear that, George? Verse 9, holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching. And why is that purpose clause? So that he will be able both to exhort and sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. Why? Verse 10, for there are many rebellious men, empty talkers, deceivers, especially those who have the circumcision. Verse 11, who must be silenced. That's why I had the muzzle across his mouth. Who must be silenced. G. Craig Lewis, George Craig Lewis must be silenced. Why? Because they are upsetting. He is upsetting whole families teaching things they should not teach. And what is the reason why? for the purpose or for the sake of sorted gain for money. Brothers and sisters, ladies and gentlemen, this is one of the reasons why we're here. We are here to address, we're here to confront the evil and demonic activities and deeds of G. Craig Lewis, Adamant Believers Council, ABC, another bad cult, and those who affiliate, associate, partner with, stand alongside with, defend, however you want to term it, that ministry because it is not a godly ministry. It is a ministry of Satan. It is a ministry that anyone who is born again of the spirit of God would not countenance, let alone support. What I want to do, I want to play a video and this is a shout out to my brother Kevin. I'm going to I'm going to share this because I believe this is very appropriate and very timely and what we are going to be discussing here. It's about 7 minutes. Don't worry about the time. Y'all are here with me now. I want to share my screen because this is very appropriate for what we going to be discussing here tonight. Let's go. >> We're going to take a step back in time and listen to G. Craig Lewis recount his story of casting out 42 demons from Kevin Thornton back in 2003. And there was a young man that came to the back and he said, "Brother Craig, I heard every word you said. You changed my life." He said, "I know what you're saying is true because I've been there." He said, "Right now, I'm in the most popular group in this nation right now. The group is called Color Me Bad." He said, "My name is Kevin and I'm in that group." This was the number one group in the country at the time. As >> we travel the world with this song, I watch the effect we have on the audience. >> Oh, what is going on? Stand by, y'all. Let's see what's going on. Let me back out of this again. Let's try it again. Let's try it again. Give me a minute, y'all. This has been happening a little bit today. Try to refresh it again. Give me a second. All right, let's try it again. Take a step back in time and listen to G. Craig Lewis recount his story of casting out 42 demons from Kevin Thornton back in 2003. And there was a young man that came to the back and he said, "Brother Craig, I heard every word you said. You changed my life." He said, "I know what you're saying is true because I've been there." He said, "Right now, I'm in the most popular group in this nation right now. The group is called Color Me Bad." He said, "My name is Kevin and I'm in that group." This was the number one group in the country at the time. As we travel the world with this song, I watch the effect we have on the audience. We'd have women in the back WANT TO DO WHATEVER WE ASKED THEM TO BECAUSE of music. And he said, "I don't want to do it no more." I said, "Well, I can pray for you. You can accept Christ right now." He We began to pray. He fell down to his knees and repented. That night, he went and met with his group. Now, this is a multi-million dollar group. He went and met with his group and quit calling me bad that night. Now, he wanted out. About a year later, got a devastating phone call. His wife said, "Craig, you got to come over here quick. Kevin is driving his car and demons are coming out of him. many, many demons. They all trying to make him crash his car. I said, "Oh my goodness." SO, YOU GOT TO COME OVER HERE QUICK. I got out of the car and before I could even touch the door knob, I heard Kevin screaming saying, "No." I opened the door and he looked at me and HE SAID, "NO, NOT HIM." And over a 3-day period, Kevin had 42 demons. And I'll never forget this one. Apostle Murray, we were had been three days. My wife had come back from out of town and we just dealing with him. This is the last demon we all know. It was like number 42 and Kevin sat in the middle of the floor and we looked at him and I looked at him. I said, "Right now, in the name of Jesus, you come out." All of a sudden, Kevin threw his head back and looked at me and folded his arms and I said, "In the name of Jesus, come out." He looked at me and said, "Uh-uh. Now, what you going to do?" So, I looked at him again. I said, "Right now, in the name of Jesus, I command you to come out." He looked at me and said, "Uh-uh, now what you going to do?" I said, "Oh my Lord." I said, "I call the angels of God right now to come and smite you." He looked at me and said, "They're busy now. What you going to do?" I stepped back and I said, "Holy Spirit, what am I going to do?" Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, "Craig, play some music." I told Kevin's wife, "Go upstairs and put on a song that I wrote some years ago with you on my side. It was one of Kevin's favorite song." I said, "Go ahead and play that song." She went up there and turned the song on. And as she turned the song on, I watched how his grin turned into a frown. And when I saw that, I said, "Turn the music up louder." And he looked at me and he began to shake his head like this. "No, no." I said, "TURN IT UP EVEN LOUDER." SHE TURNED IT UP ALL THE WAY and he began to put his hands over his ears AND SCREAM, "NO, NO, TURN THAT OFF." AND I SAW HE was getting weak. So I walked up to him and I said, "Now, in the name of Jesus, leave." AND HE LEFT. AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW that Kevin was 100% set free. He is a preacher of the gospel right now. 42 demons. >> On screen, you'll see some thoughtprovoking questions as we close out our analysis of G. Craig Lewis back in 2003. Take a look and see how you would answer these questions. In summary, you know, this video we we looked at disturbing patterns surrounding G. Craig Lewis, a man who publicly claims supernatural authority. He claims demons fear him personally and even claims the Holy Spirit told him to play a song to cast out a demon instead of using the name of Jesus. In other words, the name of Jesus just wasn't working. G. Craig Lewis went further to use his own song to cast out this demon. So now, who has the power? The name of Jesus or G. Craig Lewis's song. Scriptures clear. Jesus' name is above every name. Demons bow to Jesus. Not to music, not to men. But the concern goes deeper. Recently on the soft white underbelly channel, Michaela, the adult daughter of Kevin Thornton, shared painful allegations about her childhood. She stated that her father's behavior changed dramatically after becoming a mentee of G. Craig Lewis. She described how her family revered G. Craig Lewis, even living down the street from him, and how her father's conduct worsened during that period. These are her claims publicly stated. My wife met with Michaela after her Soft White Underbelly channel interview. My wife and Michaela discussed and discovered unsettling similarities between the two men. Similarities that raise serious questions about influence, control, and spiritual manipulation. Here's the troubling part. G. Craig Lewis, he claims the Holy Spirit told him to play music to cast out demons. But somehow the Holy Spirit never warned him about the suffering trauma and allegations coming from the home of his mentee. I find that interesting. That contradiction matters because true spiritual authority aligns with scripture, not ego, not theatrics, and not selective revelation. That conveniently elevates the leader while ignoring the vulnerable. The Bible gives us clarity. Philippians 2:9, God has highly exalted Christ and given him the name above every name, not music. Mark 16:17, "In my name, they will cast out demons, not in the name of music." John 16:13, "The Holy Spirit guides into truth, never into lies." Ephesians 5:11, "Expose the unfruitful works of darkness." And 1 Corinthians 11:19, false teachers exist so the genuine can be revealed. Tonight, we examine the fruit, and scripture tells us exactly what to do when the fruit is rotten. G. Craig Lewis told a bald-faced lie and pretended that he was talking to God. I believe he was talking to a spirit, but it wasn't the Holy Spirit. >> So, as you all can hear and and see, we're not here for games tonight. We're here on a rescue mission, rescue operation to redeem and to to save souls by the power of the gospel through the truth of his word. So bear with us. Bear with me as we may go through a few technical difficulties here and there because we have a lot of moving parts and things that's going on uh here tonight. But we are we are focused and we are we are intending to give you by God's grace the uh the truth. So I I want to just basically say this as you heard what brother Kevin had said regarding regarding G. Craig Lewis I just have to ask this question. Maybe all of us can have have an honest uh conversation amongst ourselves. Is the church of today safe? Is the church of today safe? visible church as we know it today. Is it is it safe? I would say if we allow people like G. Craig Lewis to to run rampant, unchecked, unfettered. If we allow people like Marcus Rogers, if we allow people like a Cory Miner, individuals who have taken advantage of God's people or even those who have gone on before us now like John MacArthur. Reason why I mentioned these individuals is because these are the individuals and people whose ministries have destroyed and have irreparably damaged innocent lives. And ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, this is an image of God issue. Forget about denominationalism. Forget about your particular beliefs and views. All of us are made in the imo day. And so what affects one affects us all if we are interconnected in the body of Christ. The reason why I did what I did in in 2019 and continue by God's grace to do what I am doing is because I love God's church. I love his people and because I will want the same passion and the same determination and the same uh willingness to speak out and defend those who can't defend themselves if the situation were reversed and left up to me. Reason why I say that is because it is important for us to understand we must have a biblical worldview on how we deal with sin, how we deal with with conflict and confusion which God is not the author of. And so we need to ask ourselves tonight, is the church safe? And if it's not safe as it should be, what is our responsibility? It is not just mine. It's not just brother Teton, not just brother Billy's, not just brother Kevin's or brother Anony's or my wife or your family's respon. It's all of our responsibility to do what we can by God's grace to make sure that we defend those who cannot defend themselves and speak up for those who are not able to speak up for themselves. And so tonight, myself and and and brother Teton and others, we going to address this tonight. Brother Teton is going to be one of my uh co-contributors here tonight. Brother T man, what's going on, brother? Good to see you, man. >> Peace. Blessings. How everybody doing out there? >> Doing how you doing, sir? >> Doing well, man. Doing well. Glad to have you, man. What are your thoughts, man, so far? What we what we discussed and what we've been, you know, what we've been seeing, man. Talk to us. >> Well, um, first of all, I want to say this is exciting time to be a believer. Um, I I feel like that the true church, not a perspective, but >> I just believe that >> the wheat is being separated from the tear. >> Yeah. And what is true and I know that it resonates knowing that we are the church, >> right? >> And um it's unfortunate we've seen this thing happen all throughout the body of Christ and the believers and the religious institutions. We're finding out a lot of things. However, my biggest question is to let to say this. Make sure that your soul, make sure that you're doing the right thing, living righteously because it's easy for us to look upon the sins and and transgressions of others, but uh we have to search our own hearts um because there's a level of responsibility, I believe. And um but I I honestly think that is important for the body to recognize the importance of protecting women and children. And so how do we protect the women and children if we can't protect ourselves from ourselves? I'm talking about the leadership, the men. And so after looking at some of these things and having to go through the process of evaluating uh this unfortunate situation, a lot of people have a lot of things to say. They have a lot of opinions about things. But I I I'm hope and pray that this is a clarion call to everyone. No matter what your denomination is. >> Yeah. >> No matter what your membership is, you too have a responsibility. So, at the end of the day, I truly believe this is exciting time, man. And um >> yeah, >> you know, it's time to get to work and stay on mission. >> Yeah. So, we we had a lot of things going on, man, these past few days. I know yourself and and others, if we were honest, man, we we've been we've been burning the midnight, you know, the the midnight oil, man. and um in preparation for for this this conversation and for this discussion even for this conference >> and so you know what what what what's the reason I believe I guess for you why are you here man I mean here we are 2026 you know 2019 we had been getting it in we've been you know trying to sound the alarm as best as we could and and and raising awareness regarding regarding G Craig Lewis regarding ABC and and and have made some good strides, made some made some good headway. People had had were able to come out. People were able to be uh delivered and set free, have their eyes open by God's grace to the truth um from this this I mean melees of thinking that you know without ABC without being under the ministry of G Craig Lewis they don't have anything there. Matter of fact, some people were called trash if they were not married at a certain age. you know, all the mental and psychological, I guess you can say, damage, man, that some people are even still reeling from today. And we here we are now, man, seven years almost seven years later, still addressing it. Now we have more channels coming forward, you know, uh, righteous judgment now, you know, sisters taking out up the up the uh, up the helm and and and helping people to come out of this this place and and others and and uh, and Billy and and and and Kevin and brother Anthony with EXABC support group, man. So again, what do you see and what is the reason why 7 years later almost, man, you're here sounding and banging the same drum, bro? >> You know, I I moved to Dallas uh what, 2022? >> Yeah. >> Um and I too had life challenges, things that I had to deal with outside of a G Craig Lewis, a ABC. Um, and at some point I knew that at one day we'll have to revisit this conversation. I got a call from uh, buddy brother Billy back in 2024. >> Yeah. >> 2023 I believe it is. >> And I had no intention of even dealing with this um, any longer until I started getting messages from former members who had left the church. Um, I've gotten emails and phone calls where his sister had broke free from some level of harassment from the pastor. Um, inappropriate behavior and comments and it made her very uncomfortable. Uh, I was getting other emails and I just thought it was important to really close the gap. things happen one way and then you're back here in the same loop. And so I just talked with the brethren, brother Billy, um the sister and some of the other women who had left the church. They needed a voice. Now the things that were going on was very disheartening because now you have the continued behavior and the cycle was continuing and there was no resolution. Is it my responsibility? I was a part of the ministry for 10 years. >> Yeah. >> Plus. >> Yeah. >> I love this brother. >> Yeah. Um, I love the work at some point, but for me to be out here having the conversation, I was asked to just tell my story. They wanted to connect the dots because there were other allegations that were showing up. And so, the young lady and the team of other people uh began to collect information and uh we're here now with other things that are continuously happening happening. And so I'm just here to stand 10 toes down, not only on my opinions, my experiences, but what does the scripture say? >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. >> You know, I don't want no blood on my hands. >> Right. Right. Right. I'm glad you brought that uh watch your video, man. I forgot all about that. And um that really brought back, you know, memories on how you were able to tie that in to to tonight's, you know, broadcast. Even though it was used for, you know, for ex Ministries, the scriptures are are relevant for where we are today. That all of us have a responsibility, man, to sound the alarm. All of us have a responsibility to to be our brother's keeper. And when we are asleep at the switch, when we fail to do that, or when we feel that, hey, you know, that's not what I'm called to do, brother. If we are in the family of God, if we are brothers and sisters in Christ, your responsibility and my responsibility is to have each other's back. And in a military term, we have to watch our six, right? So, as as Christians, we we are going to be held responsible and accountable for the for the for the things that God has entrusted to us. We don't have relationships with each other just just just to just for the sake of relationships. It it is for really to help us to to to know more about Christ, to draw us closer to Christ instead of drawing us away from him. And any relationship that draws you away from Christ is not a godly relationship at all. And I believe that a lot of the times that we have uh that we have noticed in regards to ABC or regarded just types of ministries, man, people are thinking, brother, that they have they they found a true church. How are you a true church and you don't practice baptism? You don't practice the the the elements, the Lord's supper, communion. H how are you a biblical church when you don't have biblical accountability? How are you considered as a church when you don't follow any of the scriptures and its mandates on how we are to lead God's people? I mean, I'm scratching my head even though I'm not, but you know what I'm saying. H how is that? How can a ministry like that get get away with 23 plus years of deception? Well, >> sometimes we start out with the right intentions, right? We start out >> with the desire to serve. >> Yeah. >> And as we saw a glimpse of the pride of life, the Trojan horse, the pride of life. Um, it's really simple. >> Yeah. When you become the God king, when you become the authority, when you unplug, when the people now unplug from the creator, God, and they plug themselves into a man's system. >> And so the deception, you know, the scriptures are clear. >> Yeah, man. >> If it was so, even the elect would be deceived. >> Yes, sir. Yes, And so sometimes, you know, we get caught up in the names, the big stage, the lights, and for many other reasons, uh, we lo we lose our way. And if you look out throughout the church here today, these same things are happening. >> Yeah. >> You know, everybody that we assumed and we adored and all the different things that are coming out and now the the folks are saying, "Hey, you know, we don't bring things to the internet." and all these preachers that are uh you know, all these denominations with all this foolishness, the internet is now in the pull pit. Ladies and gentlemen, wake up. >> Come on. Come on. >> And so when you're silencing victims and all of these things that are happening, people are being wounded. >> Yeah, man. >> And so I am a testimony of some of these things mean that I've lost everything, >> man. >> Um endured a lot, >> but he's faithful. >> Yeah, man. Come And so it is a duty. >> Yeah. >> To address these things, but address them righteously. >> Amen. >> You know, and so it it it's it's very simple, brother. We you reap what you sow. >> Mhm. And so when you spend your your whole time searching for sin, looking for validation, and if you look closely through the last so five or six, 10 years, it's been a projection of one's own self, >> man. Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> And so I my heart goes out to the membership uh the families and those who who are just still under a spell. that part. Yeah. >> A strong a strong delusion. >> Delusion. >> Yeah. And only by the grace of God can it come out. But you know, hopefully by God's grace, they're ear hustling right now. I'm I'm pretty sure all these people that are in the chat that are watching right now are not just people that have been sub subscribing and supporting all three channels. There's some people probably from ABC that are watching right now. There's some people from ABC. There are some people from, you know, Craig's church, so-called church that are watching and and they they're trying to see, you know, what are we going to talk about now? The message has not changed. Just more victims have been added to the list. And what we're called to do is what we've been called to do since 2019 is to sound the alarm, raise awareness, help people to find true solid biblical, you know, fellowship. Because when we don't have that, then we're no different from the world. Actually, unfortunately, the world even has its own uh, you know, affiliation. The world has its own affinities, right? But we're supposed to be set apart from the way we put be distinctively different and and called out to be different from our from our neighbors. You you mentioned something, Ton, before we bring the other brothers on. Talk about doing things rightly, right? Doing things according to scripture. I don't want anybody to miss that because that's important. We're we're talking about now a biblical due process that has been going on since 2019. Ton 2019, ladies and gentlemen. It has been going on that long, if not a little bit longer. And so this is not speculation. This is not goss. This is not gossip. This is not rumor. This is not slander. This is not us being gay and we had nothing else to do with our time, right? This is us standing on what the word of God says and dealing with sin according to the scriptures even though the church the quote unquote institution that comprises these members are not following are not following scripture. So what does the Bible say about that? Well, let's look at a few verses, shall we? Deuteronomy chapter 19 verse1 15. We're talking about due process, ladies and gentlemen. A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed. On the evidence of two or three witnesses, a matter shall be confirmed. Brother, last I checked, I got over 100 plus witnesses that I have been, you know, talking to and have been following and have been sharing their testimony and their their story and their experience. Verse 16 says, 'If a malicious witness rises up against a man to accuse him of wrongdoing, verse 17, then both the men who have the dispute shall stand before the Lord, before the priests and the judges who will be in office in those days, and the judges shall investigate thoroughly. Now, notice is dealing with Israel and addressing Israel. But the principle is clear. You don't make a you don't make an accusation against someone without evidence. Well, the Bible says by testimony two or three, let it be fact be confirmed. We have several more than two or three. 1 Timothy 5 19- 21 it says do not receive an accusation against an against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses those who continue in sin. You think Greg Lewis is still in sin? Yeah. Still continuing in sin so that he says those who continue in sin rebuke in the presence of all so that the rest will be fearful of sinning. Clear? I charge you solemnly charge you Paul says under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of his chosen angels. He says to maintain these principles without bias doing nothing in a spirit of partiality. Y'all see that? He says the sins of some men are quite evident. You don't have to you don't have to lay on your face. You don't have to go in a prayer closet to find out whether or not G. Craig Lewis is in sin. No, this is pretty obvious. But for some of you, he says going before the majors, for others, their sins follow afterwards. Well, this is the afterwards we're now in 2026. Likewise, also deeds that are good are quite evident. And what those which are otherwise cannot cannot be concealed. And this is what we're talking about, y'all. We're we're talking about holding a man responsible and accountable for the sins that he has yet to repent of. In fact, he has been gaslighting, has been manipulating, and has been playing the victim while victimizing the victims. And we're called to confront. We're called to blow the whistle. We're called to raise awareness and we're called to expose him and anyone else that is in league and aligning themselves with this man because yeah, the hourglass has been turned over, pun intended. You know, I think it's really important for people to understand to what you said. Um, from the very beginning, this thing was handled or the attempt to handle this was biblically. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, handling a situation in a way that not only did you protect the the body, but you're also sparing the work. Yeah. >> And the lives that have been changed from the work of the ministry, >> right? >> But I'm reminded about pride >> and what that does to us. Sometimes we can't see. And so often we we lose the idea that we think that we can go on and continue in these types of behaviors. And as my even as I reflect on my own life and some of the choices that I made and decisions that I made that you know impacted my children, impacted my family. >> Man, yeah. >> You have to give a an account. There's a there's a level of responsibility and accountability and far too long we have allowed leadership people that assume the leadership you know to function in a way because we have made them the lords of our lives and so as I mentioned earlier it's just so important for us to understand what profit a man >> to gain the whole entire world loses soul. >> Yeah, man. Yeah. >> So, this is about souls. This is about souls being lost, people being misled, but we just don't put the onus on the leadership, >> right? >> The people have a responsibility. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, let's do this, man. Let's let's let's shift gears a little bit. Let's I'm going to bring in brother uh brother Billy and brother and brother Kevin, man. We want to have this conversation. It's been well overdue. And so I'm going to bring these brothers in right now. >> Brother Billy, brother Kevin, man. Good to see y'all, man. Good to have y'all. >> Yeah. >> All right, everybody. >> What's going on, bro? What's going on, Kev? What's up, Billy? >> I thought that was a Nick. I thought that was a Knicks trophy, man. 1973. You get an hour. >> You should go on and bust that thing open right now. Put the sand all over the desk. >> No, sir. >> Hey, real quick. Real quick, Billy. Um, do you have uh were you able to get in contact with brother Anthony? I see if I can try to add him in. >> Um, >> yes. In fact, uh, he's waiting on you. >> Okay. So, hold on. Let me try to let me do this real quick. Live, y'all. This is a this is an impromptu invite. >> So, I want to see if I can add this brother in. Uh, let's see here. Bear with me, y'all. >> Going to make another duplication of myself because two is better than one of me, right? >> Oh, man. >> Set up. Set up. Stop. stifle. >> No, no more twins. No more twins. No, I'm joking. >> Let me move this over for a second, y'all. Give me one minute. Gonna do a little bit of uh adjusting a little bit here. >> Bear with me. All right, I'm going to try this here and I'm going to uh make this one here. This will be >> Well, while we're doing that, gentlemen, it's good to see you brothers once again. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Brother Billy and um Brother Kevin. >> Okay. So, let's see if I can bring in um tell me try to come on in and and see if we can u jump in. All right. Let's see. Get him in at number five. There he is. >> Hey, man. >> Okay, man. Is this a AOL connection, brother? If you got AOL, man, we got to put you out, bro. Come on now. This 2026, doc. >> Hey, uh, can you guys hear me? >> Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Yes, sir. >> So, yeah, you know, it's a it's a last minute thing. I got a, you know, my my son's graduating from uh basic military training, >> man. That's good, brother. >> Air Force basic military training. So, just kind of got in at the last minute. I'm on my phone. So, >> yeah. Good to see you, brother. Man, how much time I want you to time, but how much time you got for to hang with us tonight? >> What you got? >> Oh, I got some time. >> Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. Okay. So, um I guess Billy, Kevin, you guys can share what what y'all want to, you know, go with. you want to kind of like, you know, uh, run an audible and and have, uh, Anthony, uh, chime in wherever he wants to, go ahead, man. We'll try to work it out and and go with the flow with that. >> Yeah, we could do that. U, again, thank you everyone for joining it. This is much needed time, much needed conversation. I I just want to say I appreciate these men getting together and having these conversations because if if you all have followed this story for as long as you followed it, you know that there hasn't been the perfect harmony or synergy between all of us. There's there has been some conflict and and guess what we did? We talked it out >> that part. And >> I think that's misunderstood. >> Come on. in in a lot of circles when it especially in fortunately in the body of Christ conflict resolution is a critical component of resolving just period issues period because you're going to have times where you don't dis where you disagree with family friends co-workers anyone really and your children I mean there's going to be issues >> and you're going to have to be able to talk things out and work things through and I think that is a missing component to this situation but not for lack of trying if we were to go back through uh the the timeline and and we'll do a little bit of that. We'll see. Yeah, >> there were many efforts whether it was through Teton and Tim and Ziko and others and then of course myself, Anthony and Kevin, uh it exhaustive efforts to try to get an understanding and try to help people not before I mean actually before that try to understand what was going on. And I had a a bit of a unique situation as far as my experience with this. I won't go into full detail, but there was a definitely I believe spiritual component to that because there were things that were shown prior to any of this coming out before you even came on the scene, Seiko. So I had a unique perspective, but nevertheless, God still moved on the hearts of these brothers that now on screen. And it again the efforts were extreme exhaustive and we've labored in love for the body to try to help people come to some terms of understanding of this situation. Um >> I do have some things to share but I want to give the brothers a chance to talk through this as well. >> Go right ahead. Go right ahead. Any any of you brothers want to chime in? Yo go ahead and chime in man. The floor is yours. >> Hey man I want to catch up with brother Anthony man. Brother, how you feeling this day man? I'm feeling good, brother. Feeling good. >> Sorry about all the movement stuff. Like I said, it's it's last minute and I'm on my phone, so I'm trying to get on the uh Airbnb Wi-Fi right now. >> Good. >> So, I'll let you I'll let you get on your Wi-Fi. I'll I'll I'll uh I'll fill in with some words here. >> Well, good to see everybody, man. And Billy, amen to what you had to say because um nobody actually uh set out on this journey uh to actually come together and be here at this particular time. You know, when my family and I, we moved from the Atlanta, Georgia area to come to uh G. Craig Lewis's church. And we had made our way from Maryland down to Georgia and then eventually over to Texas. And so our thought was, well, we're just going to join a church. And we've joined a number of churches before. So, we kind of know how this works. And the experience left us um extremely disturbed to a point where we had to start re-examining his teachings, uh having conversations with brothers and sisters. Um also, we started to draw these conclusions that were troubling to us. And so, even to this day, my wife and I, we we say without hesitation, G. Craig Lewis by far is the most wicked man we have ever met in our entire lives. That's that still stands true to this day. We are over 55 years old. We've been around for a little while. We've been to different churches. We've seen different things. And he by far is the most wicked man in our opinions. Uh so some of the things that uh that I plan to uh share tonight would be some of our uh eyewitness testimonies. Some things I've seen. PE people have come to me and witnessed things and shared them with me. I hope to uh share that with the group tonight. Also, my personal testimony, some of the uh time I spent with G. Craig Lewis, you know, we we would be considered inner circle people. You know, my uh my family got very close to G. Craig Lewis's family where um I would actually go out and lift weights several times a week with G. Craig Lewis, his son, and my son, we all kind of hung out together during the week time. Uh and my wife and his wife Saba uh spent uh numerous hours throughout the week hanging out, shopping, and with the younger kids. And uh it was we spent a sizable amount of time together. And there were times when I just continued to see that everybody kind of got along, but G Craig and I, we we continued to just not really see eye to eye. And I could see that my time at ABC was going to be short. Um but I'll get into some of that a little bit later. after all these events kind of took place um we actually left the church had conversations with brothers and people don't know but Greg Lewis teaches that if you leave his church if you uh you are not allowed to speak to people who left that church you're supposed to sever those relationships and so on my way out the door people like brother Anthony brother Billy were kind of reaching out to me like hey what's going on and and we just kind of circle back and compared notes and and we all reached the same conclusion based on our own uh due diligence of the situation regarding G. Craig Lewis, his treatment of people, his false teaching and concerns and lack of accountability. So after all these things had taken place, eventually Billy was the one who actually came uh and started having the conversation about, man, I need to go public. You know, we were gone from ABC for a while just kind of doing our life and and Billy, I don't know if you remember this, Billy, but you and I were talking. You like, man, I need to go public. This thing's crazy. and I I need to let people know about my testimony and and and so you were kind of wrestling with it and I threw it out at you. I said, "Well, hey man, you ever think about, you know, creating a channel?" Uh and um and you were like, "Channel?" I was like, "Well, I don't know." And uh and then we uh we hijacked Brother Anthony and said, "Uh, hey, Aunt, what you think, man?" And so this was an impromptu discussion. Yeah. Where we were just kind of nailing some things down and and working things out. And so the channel was only designed as I remember brothers y'all can correct me if I'm wrong. It was just designed to to give a voice and it from what I envisioned it I thought it was just just be maybe one or two lives and then we would go about our lives. >> Uh you know we just wouldn't do anything else. But uh God had other plans and after staying on him for three years and going through things uh I learned a whole lot and I thank those brothers for standing strong and uh just um >> being patient with me and just working through a lot of things that I've seen and heard. Um lastly I just want to let you know out of all of this uh many things were produced friends uh fellowship discussions and also just recently my wife and I uh put together uh the um documentary my wife is actually the creator I'm the co-creator of the um the docu documentary called exposed the truth behind ex ministries and this is to help people come up to speed with what has taken place over the years what's the problem with G Craig Lewis What are people saying? What are the testimonies? How are you drawing these conclusions? And then it's presented in a way. It's a two-parter. It's about one hour for each part. And it helps people to get a running understanding of the concerns and ongoing issues with G. Craig Lewis. So, that's kind of like my journey in a nutshell. And uh it's been an exciting journey. I did not plan to be here, but uh by God's glory and by God's grace, I stand here today. And I appreciate you guys just kind of being a part of this uh journey with me. >> Amen. Amen. Let's do this, guys. Um I want to talk about the the meeting that we had uh a week ago. Yeah, we Let's talk about this meeting. Uh uh Anthony, you may just have to ear hustle on this one, but we had a meeting last week. Um unbeknownst to the viewers, and it's it's in it's in, you know, relation to G. Craig Lewis and we decided to have a meeting with uh matter of fact, let's let's me go back. I don't want to get too far ahead of myself. The reason why we had the meeting, let's do that. Uh Billy, you want you want to explain what was the reason why we had this particular meeting? Uh what precipitated that that um that event? >> Well, there was quite a few things that precipitated. Um yeah, let me ask you this. >> Okay. Okay. Or you were asking in regards to some of the things that are been brought forth >> concerning G. Craig Lewis's following or I guess is kind of delving into the new age and all of these things or you talking >> I'm talking about that. But mainly the the the video that was uh that that he had uh he was he platform with or was on Ezekiel's channel and Fred Price train was there. For me that was the tipping point that that for me that brought me back outside uh because a lot of questions was raised a lot of issues you know started to come from from that from that you know association and from that you know um u from that platform. So but I believe for me that's what caused me to want to you know try to reach out to to Fred and and and I I even told you brothers about it. So maybe you know whether Teton or you know you can chime in on if you want. Go ahead. Yeah. G give can can I can I have a second real quickly here, gentlemen? >> Sure. >> I want to say I think we missed something here. >> I want to say this to and I want to say this one time because I'm not here to play no games. I'm going to be straight up with everybody in this chat. You come in here to play. I'm I'm going to speak directly to something here. We handled this biblically. He was confronted on everything. >> Yeah. >> And all of this stuff was handled behind the scenes. So, we're not here rehashing old conversation. We're not here wasting our time. This stuff was dealt with. No one was following behind G Craig like no puppies and all this little goofy stuff. So, if you know me, don't come in here with the funny bunny stuff. You're going to have to get up out of here. I don't want to give I I if your admins, all your admins, let's run these goofy folks out of here right now. >> Yep. Y >> because this is serious business. We're not here to play and we're not here to entertain trolls. >> Exactly. >> Because a lot of you jokers in here don't know what you're talking about, >> right? >> Okay. So, I'm going to yield the floor to you brothers, but this is serious business. >> Yep. >> And you don't come in here asking ridiculous questions. There are plenty websites out here, plenty plenty of things out here for you to gather the information. We're here for serious business. >> Real talk. >> Real talk. Real talk. I mean, you talk about I mean over a hundred witness testimonies over thousand I mean we could probably be coming over thousands of hours of content. >> Not to mention the the biblical uh conversations that we had on our channel and in conjunction with the Righteous Judgment channel who has really kind of pieced all of this together chronologically. There's no excuse for anyone. The Bible speaks on this a situation in Proverbs 18:13. It's one of the the hallmark scriptures for this conversation. It's he that answers a question or answers a matter before he hears it. It's a folly and a shame. So, if you've made a judgment based on no facts, no information, no listening to testimonies, no uh considering of the documentary or any of that, then you're making a foolish, blind decision, >> and it's a folly and a shame to you. Now, is that my desire for the people of God? No, it's not. But the Bible does say we perish for lack of knowledge. Now, if you can take that and run with it, but the reality is there's way more information out here. And if you're just under a rock and you just woke up last night, then okay, I could understand that. But that's not anybody's case here. So, let's let's be respectful of everyone's time. And and again, not to make a thing about this, but people have labored. They've put their time, their energy, their effort, their talent behind this, not for anything in particular, but so that you people of God will be informed and have the information to make sound righteous decisions. And so for that, I I want to speak to the situation of the question you asked. >> Sure. >> In regards to the issues that have been kind of going, yes, the the the conversation with Ezekiel and Jere, but there were some situations that preceded that. We had been getting contacted by victims from ABC. I think the thing that tipped my scales or that cooked to my grits was this conversation concerning Bible study. >> Now, when you have a conversation concerning Bible study at ABC, that that's a totally different tangent. That's a totally different discussion point because ABC is he takes a hard stance on allowing Bible study inside the home. We've chronicled that. It's on the Righteous Judgment channel. It's it's been chronicled many times. We don't need to rehash. However, I would like to make some points here. >> Please. >> And in fact, if you look at Hebrews 13, what does it say about the word of God? It says, "For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the vision of soul and spirit, joints of the marrow, and discerner of thoughts and the intents of the heart." And then it says after that verse 13, "And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him who we must give account." That is what the word of God does. >> Come on, bro. >> Then you can add on to that Isaiah 40 and8. The grass witherth, the flower fade, but the word of God shall stand forever. Add to that Psalms 119:160. Thy word is true from beginning, and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth forever. Add to that John 17:17, sanctify them through thy word. Thy word is truth. Add to that a plethora of other scriptures. Psalm 119:105, "Thy word is a fe a lamp to my feet, light to my path." >> Why on earth would a church restrict or inhibit anyone, >> come on, bro? >> Anyone from being able to get access to what this can do for your life, >> teaching. And to sit here and have people >> put out of a church. >> Come on. >> Wanting to have family Bible study. >> Oh sir. >> To have the word of God to commune with your family to teach them and learn them to observe the ways of the Lord. Any restriction, any inhibitant of being able to do that is anti- Christ, anti- good, anti-Bible. It has no place in the church of God. And that was the thing that really stirred me up because you're now subtly taking away people's information. Not only the information but their ability to commune with God through his word. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And he slowly was transitioning himself into the word of God and to God. >> And people you cannot play with the word of God. Do not play this game. And so that's what really started to push me in a way to get this situation out there. Of course, right Judgement Channel, Kevin and of course, uh, Titan and many others, their testimonies were so were profound and were necessary to continue to push the conversation forward because again, when you, this was 2026, we had allegations back in 2019, 2020. This is this year, >> come on. >> And you had people speaking to this man and giving him props and and hand clapping him and things of that nature. and they didn't know these things were happening behind the scenes. So, this had to come out. >> Come on. >> And I won't take too much more time, but I just want you guys to understand that there the any effort to thwart or to stop the word of God from going forth is not anywhere near what God desires. And so, I want people to understand the severity of that effort and it should be condemned. And to have people align with that and to agree with that uh is shameful. Amen. Amen. Brother Kevin, brother Anthony, any brother Donnie, you guys want to chime in or anything you want to add to that before we, you know, uh, touch on another issue here? >> What what is important here is the scriptures are very clear, but this is some oldtime religious stuff, right? This is a a a warden system when you're when you're forbidding your families. See, there's no reason why a pastor should lord over your family, >> right? >> Okay. The scriptures are clear. study to show thyself approved, right? A workman needed not be ashamed. You understand? So it don't say sit up under a man, right? And he lords over your family, >> right? >> And he gives instruction when you're supposed to do this. And so you have to understand this is something that's not new. >> Come on, bro. >> Jim Jones did it. >> Yeah. >> Multiple uh leaderships in the 70s. I man I can I don't want to go out and start calling denominations but this is not new. It's a control system. >> Yeah man. Yeah. >> And so we have to understand that this is very serious. >> This is a serious situation here. When a man is putting people out of the church or having issues when you the the the woman the the the pastor's wife is oh no no we don't have Bible studies. What the pastor does is enough. Man, y'all got to be tripping. This is serious. And this ain't this ain't rumor, by the way. Right. This is not rumor. This is this is was actually been said, right? >> It's documented. >> Yeah. As of 2026. >> Go ahead, Kevin. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. Yeah. I was going to say, Seyo, the uh the link I sent you with the marker. >> Um Why don't you go ahead and play that because >> I was waiting for I was waiting on you to give me the queue, sir. I was waiting on that one, >> man. That is the Q. It's crazy. >> Yes, sir. Stand by, guys. Stand by. Let's get this thing here and I'm going go to set it up right now. All right, here we go. Go ahead and do that. Say the four of us wanted to get together. We said, man, you know what, man? Let's let's let's let's study the word of God together, man. you know, let's let's go over what Craig was talking about and let's have a study group. Was that encouraged or what was the response to that? You know, was that discouraged? Were there consequences? Were they quoteunquote saticals? What was the response to those kind of things? >> No, that wasn't it wasn't encouraged at all. Actually, it was frowned upon to uh to meet up, have, you know, Bible study or gatherings outside of the church. >> Yeah, that was a that was a big no no. >> The question of what what did he say? Did he ever uh you know make any statements about people having you know little Bible studies outside of the church? >> Some instances where some people tried to um >> to do that gather some people or whatever. >> I forget >> but but it was mainly because of people who either left ABC or whatever that he would say he would discourage it. But he hasn't I haven't heard him outright say no don't go home and study your Bibles with others or nothing. But Um I think um this was a a Sunday that he was going off um like usual, but he was just going and going off because um that Wednesday before I decided to leave on the Sunday, he started going off. Um, we had a meeting with P31 where he had mentioned he didn't want us doing family Bible studies or spousal Bible studies and that we could just listen to him. Um, and there was a point where people were asking questions. the women in the crowd were asking questions on that Wednesday and they were questioning his motive and at some point and why we couldn't do Bible study on our own outside of um ABC and he wasn't very happy with the questioning because people were genuinely trying to find out whether or not it was right. So that Sunday after that P31 meeting, um there was a point in the sermon where he just started going off and talking about how people used to love ABC and how they were always they felt God was leading them there and now they hate ABC because he teaches the truth when really people were just asking his motives and they were asking like why why can't we read the Bible? What's the point of you know a husband being the leader of the home if he can't lead us in Bible study? >> You know she was like oh yeah that came up recently. UA said that pastor gives us enough to chew on on Sunday that we don't need Bible study. And when she said that, I was like, "Huh?" Like, "Are you I'm like, "Okay, well, I'm still gonna have Bible study." Like, and if you want to have Bible study, you can have Bible study with me. Like, that's weird. Why would she say that? Um, and I didn't know. I mean later on I found out from watching some videos online that they had a whole P31 meeting about this in March that I had just barely missed because like I said I came that first Sunday and P31's the second Wednesday of every month. I just missed it. And if I had been in there and saw the PowerPoint presentation of them talking about having Bible study in your home is um you know church and that you don't need a church and if you have prayer groups you're a Jezebel. I later met people who were at that at that meeting. >> WHEN THE BIBLE TELLS THE OLDER WOMEN TO TEACH THE YOUNGER WOMEN, he wasn't talking about teach you the word. >> Uh-oh. >> Oh, I done stepped in something there. No, that's my job. I'm doing that. >> So, don't need NO WOMEN GATHERING UP AND STARTING SOME LITTLE CLUBS WHERE OTHER WOMEN ARE teaching you the word and stuff. THAT'S NOT BIBLICAL. AND every time that happen, we lose folks to it. >> BUT EVERY TIME, EVERY TIME WOMEN GET TOGETHER AND START STUDYING THE SCRIPTURES AND TALKING IT, IT always ends bad cuz that's not biblical. >> All right, let me go back, guys. There you go. There you go. And >> yeah, >> let me let me add some context there because >> please >> we were we were informed also that he mentioned to the women prior >> to actually having a discussion that the men he spoke to the men and heroes and the men signed off on not having family Bible studies in their home. >> So he basically disabled the woman's ability to commune with her husband and communicate with him or to even have that conversation. He cut their legs off from under him because they were not able to question it because he had already had the conversation with the many heroes and and the men agreed that they would not lead home Bible studies with their families. >> So these men, these weak men gave their authoral consent away to another man to tell them how they are to lead their own wives. Am >> it was reported to us. Correct. Correct. >> That is correct. And and this is not a cult. And this is this is I mean this is textbook cultism right here. >> And and there's so much wisdom in >> this is the Bible. >> There's so much wisdom in this book. I've I've I cannot begin to express the amount of wisdom, knowledge, growth, and in intimacy that I have gained from my personal relationship with the Lord Jesus through this word. Had I not had it, I do not know. There's no telling where I personally would be. I know if I didn't There's a few times in my life I can think of if I had not had enough word in me. >> Yeah. >> And there would be a catastrophic events that would have unfolded not only for me but for my family. And that's the thing as husbands and wives. We are the strong men in our homes. We cannot be bound. You cannot allow another individual. I don't care if it's a pastor. I don't care if it's whoever, right? You cannot allow anyone to take this word from you. This is truth. Thy word is truth. That's what the Bible says. And so Yes, sir. >> Yeah, man. This thing is just egregious on so many levels. I I'll get off my soap box, but >> No, no, you're good. You good? >> It is a It is a travesty and a shame. >> Yeah. >> That this is a conversation in 2026. >> Yeah. >> And this was u continue to have uh with uh G. Craig Lewis, seeing these things over and over again. And often times as believers, sometimes we get frozen uh when we put our faith and trust in Christ. We think that's it. Oh great, I have fire insurance. I'm not going to hell. >> But when you go to second Peter chapter 1 and you see verse 5, it tells you what to add to that faith. >> Yeah. >> It doesn't say stop. It says add. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so when you go to second Peter 1:es 5-7, it says, "And besides this faith, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge, and to knowledge temperance, and to temperance patience, and to patience godliness, and to godliness, brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness, love." And then it skips down to verse 10. It tells you why. Uh, give diligence to make your calling and election sure. Yes, sir. >> If you do these things, you shall never fall. >> Come on, man. >> And so, this is where we are. We have people who put their faith in Christ, but they do nothing else. >> Yeah. >> There are people who think they put their faith in Christ and they're false converts, >> right? >> And then there are people who put the work in. And so, this is what, you know, when we're coming together here and we're talking and we're having conversations and we're trying to figure these things out, this is all out of love. we are actually exercising uh the spiritual uh gift or blessing uh faithfulness of love. And so this helps us grow and add diligence to our faith. We're building upon the faith of Jesus Christ by showing love to the people of God. >> Amen. Brother Anthony, any thoughts, brother? Any anything you wanted to chime in or add in? Well, definitely um these brothers have been um involved with this uh a lot more than than I have uh recently, right? But we have been um you know and in the I'm sorry I'm getting feedback from the TV in the other room. Okay. >> Uh but we've been involved with this since 2019, right? So this is the exact same thing that was going on when we started to address this uh this whole situation. And um it's it's a divide and conquer tactic is what it is, right? Um when you when you disarm when you disarm someone of the word of God, then they don't have the tools that they need in order to have the appropriate discernment, right? >> So that you can distinguish between good and evil. If you can't distinguish between good and evil, >> then you're easy prey. >> Amen. >> Right. And so that that's that's all that's all this is. He's doing the exact same thing that he was doing uh when we initially kind of saw the light uh when we actually started doing this uh when you started getting into this psycho. I mean, he's doing the ex exact same thing. He's just um he's just taking advantage of uh a new group of people. >> Yeah. So that that's the way I see it just simple divide and conquer. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. T brother say I think what is important too to identify is that these brothers were leadership in the ministry. You had men that were working. He was head security. You had production. >> Yeah. >> Uh these were people that worked very closely. So this is not about church hurt. Somebody didn't roll their eyes at me and I'm mad I'm going to come on the internet and complain about how No. These are folks who worked in the ministry, >> right? and was close in a leadership capacity. >> Right? >> Just want to put that out there very clear. >> Amen. Let's talk about the the meeting, guys, and then we're going to we're going to kind of like skip around and and and uh kind of piggyback off each other on certain points. The meeting that we had last week, um I mentioned it earlier. The tipping point with for me was because of my uh association, my affiliation, my friendship with with Fred Price Jr. And I don't watch I didn't really I don't really watch Ezekiel's content much. And so when um when I was told that that that Fred was on was going to be on the uh on the on the pl on the panel on the platform, I said, "Oh, okay. Okay." You know, see what's talking about what's going on. And so I watched it. Uh needless to say, it was painstaking to watch because of the things that I was listening and hearing, you know, come uh from the from the mouth of G. Craig and and how uh he would just make the scripture say not only what it didn't say but what he wanted it to say and then on top of that to try to have this this this pious um persona as though he's just some meek and mild person over you know I you know after service I just you know I just meet with the men and I just love one I'm like you mean like you loved on Dale Best you mean like that kind of love you talking about the the Dale Best that that that contacted that shared his testimony that he was about to about to take his own life because you put this man on a timeline that if he wasn't married by a certain age that he was going to be put out of the church and what's up with this sbatical stuff I call it I call it sabbaical and that's what it is because it ain't it it ain't a for those who have who have been taken their rest in Christ so this is church discipline that's being abused so he don't like something that you do or doesn't agree with something that you said he'll take you to take a sbatical I didn't know what that was until I started asking some of the members at at ABC. So those may be who may be new. What is a sobatical gentleman? When when he says and I know te time have has been placed on one but but for the for the sake of record and transparency could you please let the audience know what the heck is a sbatical when you are at ABC. Anybody can take a stab at that one. Go right ahead please. I'm jumping in first because uh we we did a video this past uh week where a couple week I can't remember when we did it but we talked about some cult methods that are utilized and it's it's a combination in my opinion of behavior control and then u emotional control but a sbatical the way Gre uses it he uses it as as a way to basically maintain control of that individual or punish them for being out of I guess his good graces or his compliance. So if you say something he doesn't like, if you do something he doesn't like, or if you um somehow do I guess anything to disrupt the flow of his operations through another brother, another leader, um he will place you on what's called a sbatical. And so basically 30 days or so away, a times it'll come through one of his elite elders. Uh so Aaron would do it, Ken would do it. They'll tell you, "Hey, we'll we'll just go away for a while and we'll call you. we'll contact you back. But it's a it's a way to discipline you and to basically isolate you from the church so that you conform to the of course the requirements of the leadership. And so uh it's been done countless times, but it is an emotional control measure and it's also a behavioral control measure to get you in alignment to what he desires for you to do. And that is definitely the hallmark of a cult. They do it quite often. If you look around, maybe not necessarily sobatical, but they use these types of methods to maintain and gain control over their members. >> So, so there's no due process like >> no due process. >> Yeah. Like, so like time we went through the scriptures, right? We went through Deuteronomy 19, Matthew 18, 1 Timothy, you know, due process when there's sin, right? Or when you investigate. So there's no due proc there's no asking questions, no inquiry, no witnesses, no confession and saying, "Hey, yeah, I I I I I did this. This is a sin. I agree. I refuse your pant. You put me out. It it was none of that. >> So, I've had conversation with a few witnesses that have gone on sobaticals. And the thing that they mentioned that there were conversations, but there was no kind of back and forth. There may have been a small bit of back and forth, but then it was all of a sudden out of okay, we're going to send you sit you out and we're going to I'll contact you back or we'll get somebody to contact you back. So, there was no necessarily there was ne not necessarily a sin issue. There was not necessarily a discussion or to bring the conversation to a reasonable, you know, reason. There's no reason. It was essent essentially if you don't do what I tell you to do, you're going to go home. >> Wow. >> And until we decide to let you come back, you're going to stay away. And again, there were other issues that had absolutely nothing to do >> with sin. It was simply a situation that happened. We all heard of course the Delila Mosley story where she of course unfortunately suffered some domestic abuse. >> Yeah. >> She was pushed put away >> and never returned. There was another unfortunate situation with another sister. >> Some of the events happened with her spouse. >> She was sent away to never return. And these were nonsin issues for them. >> But in terms of the the leadership figuring, hey, it's just easier for them to go away. >> Yeah. rather than to deal with the issues or address it or even reconcile them back into the fold, they just sent them away. So whatever the leadership decided was easiest and best for them, that's what they executed. So this is a sad, you know, state of affairs that but it still happens still marched into this day. >> Yeah. Um >> yeah, and I would uh I would confirm what Billy is saying um because I too have uh uh discussed these conversations with people. I think about uh brother Moses. Brother Moses was uh he was actually slandered by G. Craig Lewis saying, "I heard that you were gossiping." When in fact, Brother Moses was a firsthand witness of what took place. And he was just reiterating what he had seen and what he had wis witnessed. Wasn't anything bad. It was just G. Craig Lewis saying that slander. Um Sister Shondaanda Kates, she was divorced uh for 10 years before she even joined ABC. She meets G. Craig Lewis. Uh, one day her ex-husband comes up to the church and uh, Shondaanda says, "Oh, by the way, pastor, this is my ex-husband." And so, G. Craig Lewis says, "This is your ex-husband. Um, you you need to go get back with him." And she says, "No, I'm not getting back with him." And he says, "No, you need to get back with him." She says, "Um, he's married." G. Craig Lewis says, "You need to go get back with him." She says, "No, I'm not going to do it." And from those events, shortly thereafter, she was placed on a sbatical. Uh, you know, somebody called it a grown-up timeout. Uh, I think that's another great way to put it, but a temporary suspension from all church activity. Um, and the temporary suspension, uh, they may give you a day or time, but ultimately, you know, that two week, that 30 days, it starts to slide into 35 days. And then pretty soon, people become humiliated, embarrassed, and even angry at how dare you kick me out or suspend me like I'm a child. And then people just drop off. But it's all for non-sin issues. It's because of preference, because of what he wants, how he wants it. And brother Moses situation was doubly bad, if that's a word. Because brother Moses uh was on a sbatical and someone in the church heard G. Craig Lewis on a Sunday morning running his mouth. What was he doing? He was talking about Moses and he gave so much information. People listened. He said, "You know, he had his brother on sbatical and, you know, I had to sit him down and he was gossiping and, you know, and and I just had to deal with him." And one brother picked up enough clues in what G. Craig Lewis was saying and called Brother Moses on the phone and said, "Hey man, you know, we haven't seen you here in a while and pastor was just talking about somebody and I think he was talking about you." And so you have you have these corroborating uh incidences that continue to point to this abusive behavior and this demeaning and demoralizing behavior. And it is magnified by G. Craig Lewis running his mouth and talking about people behind their back and the whole congregation is now uh performing their analysis to figure out I wonder who he's talking about. And that brother hit it right on the button. That's what it is. >> Amen. Yeah. Can I um Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Ton. >> I what I experienced was a little bit uniquely different. Um I recall my youngest child being born and I was working with my father in the community in Virginia and I created a concept called Operation Black to the Light. There was a lot of youth violence going on. He was elected official. the community was called together and I was just sharing some of the concepts with working with churches and organizations to address the violence in the in the community in the seven cities in Virginia and um we were utilizing art and I I write I do spoken word and I was creating content and doing little mini doc series and I get a phone call hey doc what you doing you know UEX ministries you you know just don't lie I I thought we had this conversation I said I don't live in Dallas right now I living with my father. I'm in the community and this is what I chose to do. Well, brother, I'm going to I mean, you know, people people bought your DVD. I was like, bro, I I don't care. What you mean you don't care? Nobody I don't I don't mean it like that. I'm just saying. I'm like, just because someone is purchasing my Well, brother, you going to have to have a sbatical. >> Wow. >> And in that moment, I recognize what was happening. >> I was being put on a sbatical because I did not obey >> what he what he some kind of way passive aggressively >> Yeah. gave as a directive to not do the project. Yeah. >> But I did it anyway. Right. >> And so the next day within 24 hours, my access from the websites, all of the systems were shut down. I had no more access. 24 hours. My product was removed off the websites in 24 hours. And I was glad for the sabbatical cuz here's why. >> I was able to find out what he was trying to do with my oldest daughter. And in that time, I was able to see what was going on in my family. But that's the the control mechanism >> to keep you in place. And then after the sbatical, >> while it's happening, he's out killing your influence. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Chipping away at it. So that's just what they do, >> man. >> Those kinds of people. >> Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And >> and and I got to say this cuz I may be able to raise you one, Kevin, and maybe not yours, Ton, but there was a a brother that came to us, told us he basically his family, you know, he was online and he actually ended up seeing G Craig's daughter and some risque poses and things of that nature on I guess online on YouTube channel. So he brings this to G Craig. Hey G Craig, what's going on man? kind of like I understand you know she don't live you but you you're telling us to be modest and all this and your daughter's doing all this on online man what's what's what's happening there >> the brother gets taken off to duty put on a sobatical and then given a book to read named the bait of Satan >> Wow told brother you you you're taking the bait of Satan you need to read this book by you out >> is that some time who book is that bait of Satan is that Not about Larson. Um, who was that author? I forgot. >> I know. I know. It's a book that you recommended to read during >> Yeah, that was during the Yeah, that that was around the same time. Okay. A little before the the allegations that played out, but that Yeah, that was somebody else that had an experience just a question, an inquiry, >> man. >> And so you you ask the wrong question. >> Yeah. You going to be out for a while. >> So So the >> John Thank you, John. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Crash Life Ministry. Uh so again, I was I was telling y'all about the thing that that that concerned me when I was talking about Fred and I think, matter of fact, I knew I shared it with you brothers and and some people were sharing it with me. And so it kind of put me on edge because I already know people like, "Okay, so now are you rocking with this dude? If he's rocking with this dude, it's it's always this, you know, it could be it could be true by guilt by association if you don't call it out, right?" And so I watched the video. I I I believe I talked to Teton about it and I said, "Man, this is not this is this this this ain't good, bro." I said I said now I know we've had conversations with with with Fred in 20 you know in 20uh9 and um I know that we have uh shared information as much as we possibly could but um for for whatever reason it never it never really took on any I guess any any traction. So, fast forward to where we are now. And when I saw Fred on the platform with with uh with Craig, I I was like, man, I this I got to talk to this brother, man. This this this is not good at all. I mean, it just it's just not this Craig hasn't gotten any better. He's gotten worse. Right. So, I had a conversation with uh with um with Fred. I believe Billy and and and also Kevin, y'all tried to reach out to Fred, I think during the during the the the the co during COVID or just shortly thereafter, I guess. I'm not I don't mess up the time. >> Yeah, we we we beseeched him, but we were at the time we couldn't get in touch. >> Okay. >> With him. So, >> yeah. So, so we so we had a we had a a conversation and um I reached out to him and I said, "Hey, man. these brothers want to talk to you because these are some serious concerns that they have and that I have and I believe that we need to try to, you know, at least let you know, hey man, a lot of stuff is coming down the pike and you don't need to be involved in any way, shape, or form when the hammer falls because >> the warnings have been given since 2019. Now, whether you've you've been paying attention or not, I have nothing to do with that, but the information is out there. And so we had a meeting. You you brothers can attest to that. We had a meeting and ladies and gentlemen, brothers and sisters, the meeting wasn't wasn't, you know, wasn't bells and whistles. It was wasn't, you know, we was handing out Twinkies and just singing kumbaya. It was it it it was it was pretty intense. And so >> it was tough. >> It Yeah, it it was so it was so intense. It was so tough. It It went a little something like this. We're nearing 7 years from when Seyiko first made a made a public statement or put out content regarding this scenario going back to December 2019. Why why is G Craig still pastoring? Why has he still been pastoring this entire time? The situation with with G. Craig, I think I may have mentioned this to you, Seyo. Is this a Is this a Craig Hagen uh Robert Morris, Carl Lintz, Mark Driscoll type situation or is this a a John MacArthur situation where it's like their word against mine? And the only reason I'm saying that is because like if there's if there's irrefutable evidence against G Craig, then like why have y'all been so nice all this time and not just drop the bomb? >> Any brothers want to respond to that? I I'll I'll respond after you guys respond. >> Said there were three items. >> Let me Let me say this. Let me say this. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I I I'm sorry. Please. >> And And als Oh, wait. What happened? Go ahead. Go ahead, Ton. >> I I I think that our time here is very very valuable. It's conversation that we're having. But to you pastors and brothering, I don't want to be sitting around here talking in cursive and I don't want my intelligence insulted. So, we're going to have a conversation. Let's get right down to it. Um because I I'm feeling like if we The first question is, did you look at the videos, Fred? Let's start there because if you had not watched the videos, >> have you had not watched the videos, sir? Why are we here? Because you're asking questions about evidence. And then the videos, the evidence is there, right? >> Okay. T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T T I'm I'm not I didn't ask my question. No, I I have not been able to watch the videos, but I'm not asking my question trying to defend him. I'm I'm I'm sincerely asking why why why has why why this 7-year period of time? Like, what what has he been able to skate by or or avoid? I'm not I'm not I'm not questioning the legitimacy of anything. I'm just saying what is what is he avoiding or how is he able to outmaneuver these these valid and credible accusations >> the same way the same way the first question you asked the same way the first question you asked is what was said about you so let's go back to your first question >> and then I think it would shed light to why we here >> so yeah that's just that's just a little bit uh of how that conversation, you know, that conversation went down. Uh it it we had some very frustrating, I would say, some frustrating moments in in light of what we know and in light of what we provided, you know. I mean, Billy, you know, Kevin, y'all can chime in if you want. Um and it it it was it was pretty intense for that for that for that for that time. I mean, even after the meeting, uh Fred and I we had some conversation. It was it was pretty heated uh as well. Uh it it was so heated that you know I'm I'm I'm in the process and and and was planning to to do you know do this um didn't say much about it but this was this is this is you know I was like man what else can we say what else can we provide that has not already been done that doesn't need to be said you know and um it it was really it was really I guess a challenge to my to my friendship with with with my brother because like man I mean I've been I've been I've been knowing this man since 2011 you know uh 15 years and man it it was it was like u I don't know if you watched the movie I don't know if you watched the movie 13 days uh 13 days it was dealing with the Cuban missile crisis and how close United States was was was close to going to war with Russia over the that's that's where that's where this this this, you know, this situation uh was headed. And um and so we've been trying to have conversations with this with the brother. We've been trying to, you know, reason and and and and even, you know, even be patient. I'm pretty sure you all can, you know, can understand that. But it was it it's hard. It's hard when you see someone, I guess you can say, caught in the middle but not wanting to pick a side. Am I making sense? I mean, that's, you know, the way I interpret that was he was caught and and he was he was caught in that web, right? Same way many of us have been. >> Yeah. You know, and then I and I wanted to make a point that sometimes we're looking at people through our own lenses, right? Not recognizing that Fred Price, Pastor Price had no time to be looking at no videos. He had a lot of things going on as well. >> Yeah. >> But it was a very difficult conversation because Fred was with us in the beginning >> and these evidence and the conversations were had in the beginning when we wanted to get with the elders. >> Yeah, man. Yeah. >> And privately addressed this with Pastor Lewis. >> Yeah. >> And Fred was the one who gave us the message saying that Pastor Lewis said, "Do whatever you want to do. Let it go." >> Yeah. >> And so to me in that meeting, I was just trying to process this thing like, "Come on, man. Don't play in my face, man. Are you serious?" >> Yeah. >> But then I had to recognize that there was a disconnect. >> Yeah. >> It was hard for me, though, man. I mean I you know and and cuz I think Ton you and I was was going back and forth in our conversation. He was like man you know bro you know hear what he's saying. I said yeah I hear what he's saying but I'm also looking at what's what's going on you know and trying to trying to be true and and remain faithful to God while at the same time being patient with a with a with a friend. That's where the tension was, man. And and I said, "Man, I'm going have to pick a side. I'm like like y'all know me. I Hey, if if if if we gonna deal with G Craig, whoever is in the way, and I meant that, whoever is in the way getting mowed down with the truth, getting mowed down with with with the judgment because we cannot afford to allow more people to be to be affected. You know, it's only it's only by God's grace. It's only by God's grace that no one has taken their life messing with this man, G. Craig Lewis. It's it's only by God's grace that there's not a homicide or there's not domestic. I'm talking about, you know, I say continued domestic violence because there have been uh under this so-called ministry. >> But but what what is it going to take? I guess that was my frustration. And even even now, what is it going to take for some of you to open your eyes? Does it have to be your toothache for you to say, "Ouch." Or can you have a sense of empathy and sympathy to say, man, you know, but for the grace of God, there go I. And some of you may have forgotten where you came from. Some of you may have forgotten, well, you know, this person, I don't know how this person can go through this. What about it's only by God's grace that you are not caught up in that. And and for me, I'm not I'm not a member of ABC. Never been a member. I've visited a couple times, but I'm not a member of that church. But when I when I was reading these testimonies and then realizing how man that could have been my daughter or that could have been my sister, that could have been my aunt, that could have been my mother or who you know I'm saying or my my uncle, whoever. And I'm reading these stories, man. And I think one of them was was Tashan, I believe her name was. No, Vai, I think it was V. But but I'm reading her story, man. And I broke down crying on the live just reading the trauma and reading the pain and the manipulation. And this man has the timmerity and the admitigated gall to stand before these people and act as though he's a pastor. This man is not a pastor. This man is a wolf. He's a wolf. And and there and there is no we should not have any tolerance for those who are predators. for those who ravage and try to destroy God's sheep. And so for me, I got a zero tolerance for it. You know, it's one thing when you are trying to sort these things out. It's another thing when you're dying the wool and you just going to ride with them. You going to be like the aons of the of the world and you just going to just support them and just, you know, stand with them. No, bro. I I'm not I'm not tolerating that. So, that's where that's where I that's where I've been. That's where I am. And so, um, we we went forward. I talked to you brothers about it. I said, "We we need to we need to have a conversation about this. This thing is going to have to be settled. This thing's going to be settled publicly, guys. It's going to have to be settled publicly. It's going to have to be settled in a way to where people have got to be put on notice because if it's done publicly, it needs to be it needs to be resolved or handled publicly. And if not, we need to put them on notice. This this is this is now public confrontation. This is now where we have we have people that are being whose lives are being destroyed, upended. Families are separating. Families are divided because of a man. You listen, you got you got a person like commence SA and I told him this. I said this on the live. Y'all may y'all may remember this. How you leave a whole woman for half a man? How how you DO THAT? WHAT WHAT MAKES you leave a woman in your family for this dude? Manipulation, Stockholm syndrome, whatever you want to call it. And so for me, it's time for accountability, bro. We We can't We can't sit back and not do anything or just cluck our tongues and say, "Oh, you know, that's a shame." It's more than just a shame, y'all. This is wickedness. This is ungodliness. And we all have to we all have to take a stand by God's grace and support those who are doing the work and come alongside those and and be and be that you know cuz sometimes it gets hard man I told Tar this morning I've been up since since 3:30 this morning man preparing for this live just just for this day just for this day I didn't put it like in 15 20our days man just just preparing content and research now imagine doing this stuff for 2 three is >> while being a truck driver. Y'all got Y'ALL GOT JOBS. WE ALL have family. So, this is not like we don't have nothing better to do with our time. It is a labor of love and love does not seek its own. So, many of us have to start looking at ourselves in the mirror and say, "What are we doing? What are we here for? Are you here to just make a name for yourself?" You shouldn't be. You should be here to make you should be here to make God's name greater in your communities, in your families, in your relationships, and and in your churches. But I I'll shut up because I ain't mean to rant. We Anything you want to say before you push forward? I'm sorry. >> Just some um I like to think about some clues that will help people understand the uh the depth of uh what we're talking about. >> Yeah, >> there are we're all human. We all make mistakes. That's understandable. uh preachers all the time. They may say something incorrect. They may have a a leaning that not everybody agrees with. Yeah. >> But there is a commonality in terms of the lordship and salvific call of the Lord Jesus Christ. >> Amen. >> When you start to look at G Craig Lewis, uh that's why I'm glad Seiko played that uh clip earlier from 2003. G. Craig Lewis claims that his music had more power to cast out a 42nd demon than the name of Jesus. I want that to sink in. G. Craig Lewis claims that when he called the name of Jesus on that 42nd demon for Kevin Thornton, the demon said, "Uh-uh. Now what you going to do?" >> Yeah. Ain't that something? >> And Craig Lewis claimed that the Holy Spirit told him, "Well, just play some music, Craig." Now he's now now now Lewis is lying on the Holy Spirit. Now he's demoted Jesus and now he's lying on the Holy Spirit. >> Right? >> And then G. Craig Lewis said, "Well, I'm going to play some music, but I'm going to play my own music." Well, wait a minute. And then when he plays his own music, the 42nd demon is starting to get scared. Well, wait a minute. When the name of Jesus was called out, the demon just smiled and laughed and said, "No, what you going to do?" Now, when G. Craig Lewis playing his own personal music that he created. Now the demon is getting scared. Now who's got the power in this conversation? >> Come on, man. >> This is Lewis. >> Now, here's my point. This is satanic. >> Amen. >> This is not a mistake like, "Oh, man. I you know, I I I told you to go to the book of Luke. I I meant the book of Mark." No, no, no, no, no. This is not some things people usually debate and, oh, once saved, always saved. Oh, no. I have this view. I have that. No, no, no, no, no. This is I am above the name of Jesus. >> Come on. >> That's what that is. And that my dear friends is satanic. >> Very. >> That's why you have to call this man sadistic. And then he doubles down. >> He says, and then I told him to turn the music up and the demon was saying, "No, no." And then I turned it up higher. And I said, "No." And then he said, "I saw the demon get weak." Go back to the clip. You'll see it. I saw the demon getting weaker. Then I called on the name of Jesus. And I said, "In the name of Jesus, come out." And the demon came out. So G. Craig Lewis's music had more power than the name of Jesus. And Jesus needed G. Craig to cast out a 42nd demon. >> Come on, bro. >> He said that in a church >> and he slid that thing in with his story. He is a wicked, vile man. >> Very. >> He does not have the authority above the name of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit did not tell him that. >> That's where we are today, ladies and gentlemen. >> Amen. >> That was 2003. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. So, let's do this, gentlemen. Um, I want to bring on I want to bring on our guest in light of what we've heard, in light of what's been said. I want to bring on our guest and have uh our guest share their thoughts regarding what has been said, what has been heard, anything that may hopefully have, you know, turn the tide, changed the mind in light of what has in light of what has occurred. Are y'all y'all good with that? All right, ladies and gentlemen, without any further ado, our special guest, Pastor Fred Price, Jr. What's going on, gentlemen? How y'all doing? >> Peace to you, pastor. How you doing, sir? >> All right, pastor. Good to see you. >> Well, let me >> How's it going, pastor? >> Let me grab my sign in. Great. >> Real quick. Hold on one second, Anthony. Try to bring you in one more time, sir. >> Go ahead, F. I'll let you go ahead and share your thoughts as I ceue this up real quick. >> Okay. Um, firstly, Seiko, it would have been nice for you to say how the meeting ended. Well, >> that I mean, you know, I want to be a director. >> All right. No, no problem, bro. It's It's all good. >> Yeah. Did that on purpose. >> Um, for sure. >> So, let's let's go back to Let's go back to 2019 for a second. >> Um, you know, at this time, you and and G Craig are I consider you both friends at this time in my life, 2019. And uh at first I didn't know that you had in a sense taken him on. So you know once I found that out and and you know honestly I felt like I was in the middle and it was it was it was challenging to a degree. >> Yeah. >> Um and it was probably over the course of about 3 months where where the bulk of this happened. maybe maybe like late November going into early December all the way to >> Mhm. >> midFebruary because February 14th of 2020. I'm thinking it's the 14th but middle of February of 2020. >> Yeah. >> Truth behind hip hop social esteem was supposed to happen in Crrenshaw. >> Okay. >> And uh but all of this stuff started, you know, coming down the pipeline and you know, you were strongly encouraging me not to do that. Go ahead and cancel it. And uh eventually it did get cancelled, but what was happening during that time again it some of the things were hard to hear. >> Mhm. >> Um and and uh Teton and and and got got in the mix and uh somewhat of even a of a rekindling of our friendship. >> Yeah. Because when I found out that Teton and I'm and I may go back a little bit more because something Yeah. There's something that Teton said in in in in the meeting that you're referencing which was last Tuesday. He said follow the pattern. >> So there's some patterns that you know I wouldn't have been aware of until later. And so now when I replay some things in my head I'm going >> okay that's interesting. So, let's go like January 2018. Um, I go to Dallas, you know, to hang with G. I'm thinking I'm going to see Teton. And that's when I learned that that relationship had been severed, that it had ended and Teton was no longer part of EX. >> Yeah. I didn't really get a a uh detailed reason as to why, but you know, that's just that's just what he said and that's just how that was. >> I did not converse with Teton until almost two years later when 2019, early 2020 when you're doing all of the things that uh you were doing in regards to all of the allegations you were you were receiving, etc. >> Yeah. So again, that was a that was a tough time. By the time we get to uh February and um you know, it's canled, which by the way, the I told him, I said, "You know what? We need to I think it would be wise not to do this, not to do the truth behind hip-hop. You've got allegations. The water's murky, and I think that it would just be best if we if we didn't if you know, if we didn't run with this." Some of the things he told me were like, well, you know, I mean, I can't I can't stop doing what God has called me to do just because of what people are saying. >> But then not too long after he calls me and he tells me, well, the Lord told him not to do it. So, personally, I was saying, "Thank God." I mean, at this juncture, I don't know what your real reason is, but thank God it didn't happen. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then short and then shortly after that and then also in that conversation was the whole, you know, tell them to drop it, tell them to release it, you know, lower the boom. >> Pandemic hits. Um, I think maybe three or four months into the pandemic. Uh, Se, you hit me up about some ex ABC members that wanted to have a conversation. >> Yeah. >> And and I and I think I confirmed with you last week that it was Billy and Kevin at the time. I didn't know. Um, and I didn't I didn't want the conversation. And and the reason why I didn't want to have the conversation is because I wanted to be done with it. You know, it was it was it was it was taxing to be to feel like I was in the middle. And I just I just didn't want to deal with it. I mean, just be honest. That most likely was not the best route to take, but that's just how I felt. >> Um, I was hoping that it would just go away on its own. >> Yeah. Well, five about five and a half years passed. The the kind of communication that he and I had over five years, there was nothing in person, nothing at my church, nothing at his church. >> Mhm. >> Um we we talked when my dad was on his deathbed. >> Yeah. >> Uh and I was really vulnerable and weak and broken during that time. >> Um and then a couple times throughout, you know, those five years, there was some back and forth, >> you know, a call here, a text here. Pretty much that was it. >> Go, go, go. >> Jump to >> uh uh October of 2025. >> Right. Right. >> Close, close, close. >> Okay. Uh October 2025 and uh I go out to to be with him. This was my thinking. And again, it may not have been the best mindset to have, but I'm just telling you where I was so I can tell you where I am now. >> Yeah. >> Um, you know, it's been 5 and a half years. I haven't really heard anything. And that's because, I'm going to be honest, I listen, I kept my ear away from from anything that had any kind of news that had to do with him. I wasn't looking for it. I wasn't checking for it. Again, hoping that it was just something that was just going to blow over. Uh, so with all of the time that had passed and he hit me up about coming for Truth Behind Hip Hop Par 15, >> Mhm. >> I was like, why not? You know, Angel and Seba had a relationship as well. So I'm like, I ain't seen this dude in five and a half years. Let's just let's just let's just, you know, roll through. And so it seemingly was like a rekindling. Now, in that same week, I drive to Houston for another event, and then you and I meet up and and and and we talk and you ask me the question, you know, would he be willing to sit down with me? My response to you was like, I don't know. Jump ahead from there to February of 2026, first Sunday, he invited me out to speak. And then jump ahead to June of 2026. That's when the podcast with him and Ezekiel was was pre-recorded. >> Yeah. >> And uh Ezekiel had an idea uh you know getting us together on the podcast. So when was that released? Um it was released to the public on July 30th, but I think for about two weeks before that maybe it was released for members only. And uh July 21st, I just went back and I looked at the text. That's when you hit me up saying you wanted to really talk to me about something that was on your heart. >> Yeah. >> And uh you got Teton on the phone and we had a you know, we had a we had a good conversation and some things were some things were revealed to me that that kind of stung uh kind of hurt a bit. And then Seikko, you showed me some some text images where I think Billy and Kevin were were confirming what Teton had said. And what was so interesting about that is these were different sources with some pretty detailed information. And you know, my question would be how else would they have known >> Yeah. >> what they heard, right? >> Like how else would they have heard it, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, jump ahead to uh July 30th and I'm looking at all this and I'm like, this is this was definitely God's divine providence, >> how this all happened and how I'm here right now. >> Yeah. >> Uh uh so July 30th, that's when the uh EP podcast episode was released to the public. It's released to the public. Now, this is also the last time that I had communication with G Craig. >> Okay? And I and I have I mean I couldn't tell you why other than than than than forces beyond my control. But while I'm watching it, he reaches out and it's about something else. >> And I'm like, "Wow, that's interesting, man. I'm watching our episode right now." And he made a comment and that was it. I haven't talked to him since. >> Yeah. >> So that was July That was July 30th. So that was about about three weeks ago. I think that following week, um, you and I talked some more and then we locked in a conversation with all of us, you, me, Teton, Billy, and Kevin for the 11th. That was last Tuesday. And I even asked you, I said, "Would they be willing to talk to me?" Specifically referring to Billy and Kevin because I hadn't had a conversation with them. I hadn't sat down to to hear them or listen to them. And so, and you said they were willing, and I was like, "Okay, great." So quite a bit has happened. I would say probably in the last 10 days. >> And if anyone is wondering, well, why why would I want to get on the stream now? >> Um why would I want to hear anything else that they would have to say? Cuz also remember at one point sake I was like, you know what, don't tell me anything or let me hear anything else because anything else you want to drop on me, do it on the live >> stream. Yep. >> Do it then. >> You did. Um, so one of the reasons though that I felt like I needed to hear from these brothers because let me read you these five scriptures. >> Sure. >> And >> you want me want me to put up on my on my uh screen or you want to just go ahead and do it on yours? >> Oh, you you could do that. C. Can you can you do uh u Proverbs 18:17? >> All right. Give me a second. Let me put it up here for you. >> Yeah. It's just five. They there's a common theme amongst them all. even though they all have specific contexts, >> but there's a common thing theme amongst them all that I think is applicable to what's happening right now. >> All right. >> So, >> there you go. >> Just let me know when you got them. Yeah, there we go. Um, so I normally read from the the uh NKJV, but is that the NASB on the left? >> On the right. NKJV is on the on the right. The one that Jesus wrote. >> Yeah, you a fool for that. So, NASB is on the left. >> Yeah. N Yeah, NAS is on the left and the NKJ is uh on the right. >> Yeah. All right. You you you got jokes, bro. I'm going to go with the NASB, though, cuz I I I I love the N. >> Lord, save Seiko from himself. >> Lord, cursive. Just cursive. >> Uh so, um NASB uh Proverbs 18:17, the first to plead his case seems right until another comes and examines him. >> Uhhuh. Next one. >> Can you go to verse Can you go to verse 13? >> Yes, sir. Okay. All right. He who gives an answer before he hears, it is folly and shame to him. I think Billy mentioned that scripture earlier. >> Yes, sir. >> Uh, can you do James 1:19? >> Sure can. >> All right. This you know, my beloved brethren, but everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger. Give me John 7:51. All right. Our law does not judge a man unless it first hears from him and knows what he is doing. Does it? And then lastly, >> lastly, do Luke 14:28-30. All right. For which one of you when he wants to build a tower does not first sit down? And this is the part that I really want to zone in on. Calculate the cost. Yeah. >> To see if he has enough to complete it. Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish all to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him, saying, "This man began to build and was not able to finish." Now, again, all of these scriptures have unique context. But I think there's a common thread. And to me, the common thread that I drew from all of them is what I apply to finally finally sitting down and talking with Billy and Kevin. because I said no 6 years ago, six plus years ago. >> Yeah. >> And it wasn't anything against them. It's I didn't want to go through the trauma of what I went through. Feeling like I was in the middle of my brother Seiko and my brother G. Craig. That's what I was feeling then. >> And because that was a couple months after was like I don't want to go through that anymore. >> Yeah. But to go on this podcast and sit on this couch with this man and to and to then after that, no, nothing blew over. If anything, there are more accusations. You know, there's there there are more there are more reports. There's there's more of it being named among you. Mhm. >> For me, it was like, okay, then then I got to sit and I got to talk with these brothers because they they love the same Jesus I love. So, how can I how can I hear one side or how can I how can I neglect to hear another side if we all say we're believers if we all say we serve the same Jesus? >> Yeah. >> And so that that's why I wanted the conversation to happen last week. That's why when this idea came for me to be on the broadcast, uh, I was game. I I was all for it. And if there's if there are some some trolls or anyone who may be feeling some type of way that I'm even on here with who they might deem G Craig Lewis enemies. You know, let's let's paint a worst case scenario and say that's what I was doing. I should be able to to hear from them >> even though that's not that's not even what this is. But if that's if that is what it was, then I should be able to to hear from them, >> right? >> And and and so for me, I'm like again, I got to hear all sides. I I need to I think it's a breach of my integrity if I don't. >> I think it's tanamount to me saying that they're liars. or even if I'm not saying that they're liars, I'm saying that what they have to say isn't isn't weighty enough for me to hear. I think all of that would be a breach of of my integrity. Especially if I am the ministry gift Jesus has called me to be in his church. Then if I'm not applying the wisdom of Solomon to this thing and we're not saying that we're going to divide the baby in half with all of this, then shame on me. >> Mhm. So >> Fred, if I may say, and I and I don't mean to interrupt, but the biblical wisdom of Solomon, because there's other words out there that suggest that there's another side of that, but I won't get into that at this point. I just wanted to say the the word of accord, but we know what the scriptures say. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Um trying to see if there's anything else that I want to say in the moment or just let you know, you all ask questions and pull whatever else out of me. Uh, I think I said all that I wanted to say in that moment. >> Okay. Um, >> um, >> Kevin, yeah, Anthony, you guys want wanted to respond or share your thoughts or questions uh before we proceed forward? >> Yeah, I mean, I can I could just introduce myself to Pastor Fred Price just in case he's looking and saying, "Hey, who's this brother?" Um, you know, basically I was in the trenches with uh Billy and Kevin uh back in 2019 and exposing a lot of these things. Uh um also when that initial request uh came out, I think I probably would have been a part of that uh that meeting. I'm not I'm not really sure. Um but like you um several years ago uh when we stopped, you know, kind of doing our exposure of G Craig Lewis, I mean I I was done with it. I didn't I I didn't want any part of this anymore. Um kind of put it on the back back of my head. Uh these brothers called me up and said, "Hey, you know, we would really love your your support today." Uh so I'm on in support of y'all brothers and I appreciate uh y'all brothers uh uh doing this. And so that's you know that that's why I'm here. Uh these brothers have definitely been in the trenches uh uh much more recently uh than me. So, just wanted to introduce myself. Thank you for coming on. >> Hey, Anthony. >> Let me chime in. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to ask Anthony. >> Well, I was going to say, um, I think I'm pretty sure with with Anthony, Billy, and Kevin, I had to have already met you guys at some event, right? Like, I can't put my finger on it, but I find it hard to believe that we didn't cross paths at some behind hip-hop or at least at one point in time at at ABC. But we can we can absolutely, you know, we can talk about that later. But I'm thinking I don't I'm thinking >> I met you all at some point. >> I I want question for you too, Anthony. Um because Fred was asking me a question. Matter of fact, I believe it was in the context of your of the work that you did at ABC. Uh Anthony, so can you can you uh unpack that? What was your role and responsibilities at ABC? And what was your relationship with me prior to uh uh the allegations coming out and then post allegations involving G Craig and the in the videos and the content and him approaching you. If you can kind of tie all that in together and present that and and share it with uh Pastor Fred. >> Whoa. Uh that that's a lot. So uh definitely testing my memory here. Um but basically my responsibility at um at ABC is that um I was one of the one of the leaders and heads of of security there. So I worked uh with uh Clemente SSA and also um uh Jonathan Robinson who who all uh basically work together u having law enforcement experience to u just kind of solidify that that team. So um you know whenever we had uh Greg Lewis had productions obviously we would we would work security there and then of course at at the church and all of the different types of u other events P31 so on and so forth. So that was my um that was my role uh leadership role uh within the church. And so just like you said we've uh we've definitely run across uh each other several times uh before. Uh but uh obviously you being Pastor Fred Price Jr. I mean you come across a lot of people definitely don't expect you to remember that. So uh what was the uh the other qu Oh yeah the other question that you asked uh Seiko was um just kind of like my impression of of how you were approaching the situation initially. Um I I was still in the church. Uh, brother Billy and Kevin had already left. Um, I had been speaking to brother Billy and Kevin about, you know, why they left because I I I really didn't understand why they left. I knew that there was a lot of allegations that were going around. Um, but I was I was a little bit in the dark about how, you know, u how everything kind of went down. Um, and so when I saw when I initially saw Seikko's videos uh coming out on this, um, you know, obviously I took offense uh to it because I had a lot of brothers in that church that I I cared for a lot. Um, and I I didn't necessarily had a pro have a problem with him calling out the wrongs. It it was it was kind of like the mannerism in which he was doing it. and and at the time in my opinion um I thought that he was he was being much too harsh and uh in addition to that um he hadn't attended uh ABC so as far as I knew he didn't really have a relationship to the uh to the brothers that were there and um and so I just I I just kind of felt like it it was it was a bit u you know disrespectful in the way and the manner that which he was he was coming out and uh and and even with good intentions uh I was coming like from the perspective that um that a an offended uh brother uh is is harder harder to to win than and and I may be butchering this and I totally forgot I haven't read in so many years or whatnot but harder to uh harder to win than a u than a fortified city. >> Yeah. >> Uh so >> so that's that that was the angle in which I understood it. Uh, and obviously Seikku Seiko knew a lot of things that were going on that I wasn't privy to. And so, um, and so I I I rushed to judgment on Seyo and, uh, definitely had some interactions online with with Seiko initially. Um but you know all in all eventually um I I began to appreciate what he did and why he did uh you know what he did as I um gained a lot more information about um about what was happening behind the scenes with his conversation with you conversation with G Craig Lewis so on and so forth. So I'm not sure if I answered all your questions. I don't want to take up too much uh uh time other than that. Uh, was that it? >> One more because I want you to talk about the the issue regarding G. Craig approaching you about me in the videos and what was his request to you regarding that? >> Uh, approaching >> you. He >> I'm sorry. Can you approach you crying about me? >> Oh. Oh, wow. Okay. >> And then the death threat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I do apologize. The way my mind works, uh I I really >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. The way my mind works is is like um once I'm done with something, I it it just me. I'm telling you, I put it away. It It's It's just gone. But, uh I do I do recall that uh vaguely. Um I was uh working security at the front uh of the church. Um it was very awkward. and how um G Craig approached me. Now, I didn't have a close relationship uh with G. Craig Lewis, even though uh I was in that position. I mean, we we would chop chop it up every now and then, but uh wasn't really close uh with him. So, as I'm scanning the uh the church uh as church is letting out, I kind of lock eyes with Craig and and he he's looking directly at me, which was very unusual, right? So I I scan away and I'm looking and I come back and he's still looking, right? And so I walk over to him. As I'm walking over, u I'm I ask him if you know, if my memory serves correct? Hey, you know, everything going on? Everything good, pastor? Are you good? And then so he just kind of turns away from the crowd slightly and he starts to his eyes start to tear up and he was basically saying that he's really having a hard time with all of the stuff that's that's been coming out online. Um and uh and so he was just I I don't know. I don't know. it it kind of looked like he was trying to, you know, confide in me or or something like that, which was kind of weird because like I said, I didn't have a really close relationship with him. Um, so it's very very weird. Um, and I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out my why my face keeps going out of the screen. Uh, okay. So, uh, yeah. So, it's very weird as to as to, uh, as to why why that was. Now at that point time uh after that I can't I can't remember exactly and I don't want to misstate anything. I can't remember exactly what I said after that. Do you recall Seiko what what I told you back then about >> like why he was he was trying to kind of you know do that or confide in me. >> Yeah. because he had he approached you about the videos and he was asking about, you know, how can if he wanted to get a cease and desist order against me or to have me legally, you know, stopped, >> right? >> And you gave him those options. You said, "Well, it would have to go into discovery if you try to, you know, try to make this a legal matter." And um and you you told him, but you're not really sure if that would be, you know, u feasible, but if you did it, you have to go through these tipping channels. And he paid like $10,000 to try to have me, you know, scared and try to, you know, stop me from, you know, making content by serving me with some fake, you know. >> Right. Right. >> Right. So, yeah. I I'm sorry. Yeah. So, now you you just jarred my memory. So, I didn't have that conversation with him um uh at at the church. He he actually he asked me um to give him a call >> uh later on in the week so that we can we can discuss uh you know what he could possibly do in order to get you uh to stop. Um and so like I said I didn't I didn't really know I didn't even have his number and so he looked at me like you don't have my number and I'm like no I don't have your number you know we we weren't very close. So, I did uh call him later on that week and yes, we did uh we we discussed uh some things uh you know, I was basically explaining to him uh you know, kind of Texas law on harassment and basically letting him know that it, you know, doesn't really fall into that that category uh as far as any type of criminal, you know, uh uh thing. I said, "Now, you can make a request." I basically told him the process and how he could potentially make a request, but it has to be reviewed by, you know, the district attorney and has to be approved and so on and so forth. Uh, so I just kind of broke it down how he would be able to do that, but there was also a deeper conversation that we initially had a little bit later on. But yeah, he eventually um he did do that u and he had uh a private investigative firm. It wasn't a law firm or anything like that that kind of drew up some paperwork. Uh and then um sent it, you know, to to Seiko prior to that being sent, I got a copy of it. Uh and so um and then of course later on as we started to talk about u all of these things I had you know uh revealed to Billy Kevin and I believe you as well that it you know uh looking at it having a copy of it looking at it I understood that it was from a private investigative firm and not from any type of law firm and it didn't have any type of signature of a judge. So it didn't have any authority whatsoever. It was basically an empty threat. So yeah, basically that's how that that's how that went down. So thank you for drawing my memory on that. >> One more question, sir, before you before I before I let you go. Uh the threat >> the threat the conversation about uh if I were to pull up on ABC's property, the person popped up their trunk and showed you their their uh their weapon and and was talking about wanting to kill me. Can you elaborate on that? So I I yeah as as before I'm definitely not going to drop any names or anything like that but I have publicly said that uh yes I I did uh speak with with an individual uh that was very upset uh member member of the church. Um and uh they basically expressed to me that they were extremely upset with with Seikko and that uh you know that if Seiko were to show up at the church that they basically had something for him. uh and they uh they popped the trunk of their car uh and there was a there was a um um um an AR AR-15 style rifle uh in the in in the trunk of the car. Um so yes, that did that did happen. Um as a response to that, I went to one of the elders of the church uh and told him about that. that I said, "Hey, I'm I'm concerned about, you know, some of these brothers uh because there were also some some other things uh that were going on in the church with some other brothers." And I believe that we had a conversation how I I felt that there was a spirit of hatred uh in in that church. Um and we all know uh what the scripture says about hating someone uh in your heart, right? >> Yeah. And so, uh, so there was definitely a a threat, a legitimate threat. I went to one of the elders, told him about that that situation, and basically they told me, "Well, why don't you just go and just talk to him about it." Um, I I was I was kind of shocked that that's that was the response. Uh, but I did. I went and I talked to uh I talked to this brother and and um they basically said that uh they didn't actually mean it as an actionable threat. Uh but it was it was just basically out of out of anger. It was said out of anger. U and that was the that was kind of like the end of it. But I really um you know um it there were a lot of things that were going on there um to where people were behaving in in such a way um that it was very very concerning. And so when Seiko says that it's only by the grace of God that someone hasn't either taken their life or taken someone else's life, that is not um an empty saying there. That's that that has some credibility, >> man. I appreciate it, brother. Thank you, man. Thank you. Uh Fred, your thoughts about what um what brother Anthony uh shared. >> Yeah, I mean that's that's hard to hear. And a I mean that that that that that's in diametric opposition to scripture. We're not just talking about sin only. We're talking about crime and sin. So >> yeah, >> um I mean it's just another one of those things that is difficult and unfortunate to hear, but that's not something you can make up. It's it would be too much effort if you were making all of this up, Seiko. So >> yeah, >> um you know, to hear to hear the the the confirmation of it from from Anthony again, I mean, it's sobering. Um, and it's disappointing and and and let me add this. >> Yeah. >> Uh, like nobody wakes up in the morning eager to do what's happening right now on this broadcast. Um, I I was privileged to meet Teton via EX Ministries and we became friends. I was privileged to meet another brother we all know, Bobby Carter, through EX Ministries, and we became friends. And now at this juncture in life, the two of them are not in a place with G. Craig where they were before. Am I supposed to only side with him? Break fellowship with them, not communicate with them, not have a relationship with them. Um, I don't think that's fair. I don't I don't think that's just And and I'm and I'm saying I'm saying all that to say that I'm on this broadcast with you all right now. Sidebar, the only people that knew I was going to be on this broadcast were you four and one pastor. And we know who that pastor is. >> Correct. >> I didn't tell anybody else. >> Correct. >> I didn't I didn't want to tell anybody else because I didn't want any I don't want any opinions, pro or against it. I didn't want anybody to to to try to feed me anything or or or fuel me with anything as it related to this broadcast. I I kept it between I did I kept it between the four of us and that one pastor. Uh and that was it. And so I'm on here and and you know to this present moment I haven't had a falling out with him. But I also cannot ignore the cries of of the wounded because before I am uh before I'm a I'm a I'm a well let me just like this. I'm because I'm a pastor and and and and and I have the heart of of the chief shepherd. The job of the shepherd is to heal. It's to protect. Mhm. >> It It's to nurture and care for the sheep. >> Yeah. >> Not not to wound the sheep, not not to harm the sheep. >> And so to to simply note that just from being on the couch with him on that episode of Ezekiel's podcast and what it caused to to to bring me into the knowledge of not just that the stuff that I previously heard blew over. No, it didn't blow over. It's still present. It had never been addressed. And then there's more on top of that. So, this is about right. This is about integrity. This is not about relationships and and and and uh personalities. It's about it's about caring for God's people. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so that's why and I again and I felt like this I needed to do this that it was it was imperative that I did it because again I don't I don't even think I've Yeah. I I'd never done anything public with you and Teton even though we talked about it before but I hadn't even talked to Billy and Kevin previously. So I felt that it was imperative that I do this because and I and I want to apologize to anyone for my silence. Uh, if my silence wounded anyone, if sitting on the couch with him, told you that I didn't think anything of what he put you through, I want to apologize for that. I already apologize to Teton, but I'll do it again publicly. I apologize to Teton, the clip that you played earlier when I made my comment about why haven't you guys or like why is he still up? Why is he still ministering? Why haven't you, you know, dropped the bomb? Um and and and that bothered Teton and I wasn't saying it to to make light of any accusations. I was genuinely uh you know being serious but I apologize to to you Teton. I apologize to you Billy and Kevin. Um if it if it came off that way cuz that was definitely not my intent. And then Kevin and you said your your answer ultimately was watch the documentary. That's what you told me to do. You said, "Watch the documentary." And I watched the documentary. I watched both parts and a lot of things made sense. Matter of fact, I wish I would have watched the documentary before we had the August 11th meeting because questions would have then been answered. Um, >> but I did watch it. I get it. So, >> I just wanted to I wanted to say that. >> Yeah. >> Anything you would like to say in in light of what you have um heard recently heard what brings you here to to say to G. Craig Lewis publicly to the leaders of ABC. >> You have the floor, sir. >> Yeah. >> Um, again, you know, this is this is never easy. Um, there there are relationships that seemingly are are intact right now. They may not be once this is done. um relationships that were were uh solid that aren't anymore. Um but again, this is about principle. This is about character. And so, uh, my dear brother, Pastor Lewis, the the the onus and the burden of proof is on you. If everything that these brothers have said and the other accus I haven't even heard yet, if all of these are truly false accusations and and it's all slander, then it would be up to you and the responsibility would be on you to to prove them as liars. M >> if you cannot do that because what they're saying is true, then the mere fact that there has been more than one accusation against an elder and that it has been named among you, the wisest thing to do would be to sit down for ministry and and sit down as soon as possible. Uh and if any other elders at ABC were were in any of this uh sinful behavior, they would need to sit down too. Um but sit down, step down from ministry for for a protract a pro retracted period of time. And and listen, why am I saying this? Cuz I've been there. I I've been there. June 26, 2017 is is is stained in my memory because I had to step away from ministry because of personal misjudgments and and it was a private issue. But but the the stepping away was public and so it caused all kind of believers and Christians to want what do you do? Well, what what was it? Um um and you know it was it was it it was and still is you know none of their business. I was going through some stuff and I wasn't fit to be in the position that that I was in. And so I needed to step away. So I I know how to be accountable to my my father was still, you know, in the earth at that time. So he was still my pastor. So I was accountable to my pastor. I was accountable to elders. I was accountable to a deacon board. I was accountable to to um uh ministry figures that were in my life that that that I looked to for support, that I looked to for wisdom, that I looked to for guidance. I was accountable to them. And if you truly are a pastor in the Lord's church, then you need to be accountable to somebody. I I I I I encourage I encourage Will Ford to to be that person. Um I know that that you have a high a great deal of respect for Dr. Earl Carter. I have a great deal of respect for Dr. Earl Carter. Go sit with him and let him give you a a um correction correction protocol. let him give you give you a plan for restoration. That is the biblical thing to do. Um because when we are disqualified in the moment, we should not be up before the people. We need to get help. We need counseling. We need uh we need we need encouragement. Um because when we wound people, it's because we're wounded. So, um, that's what needs to happen. Uh, these gentlemen on here actually know you better than me. So, they probably would say what you would do, but that's what needs to happen because again, the the the actions that have been stated, the the the evidence that has been laid out is irrefutable. And I mean from what Seikko is saying this is less than a tithe of what is has been that you've been privy to. >> Yeah. I I still got clips I haven't even I haven't even released but I'm going to release it tonight. So your your opinion even your even your response is going to probably be ratch ratcheted up a little bit more once you see the rest of the receipts that tonight. And and ladies and gentlemen, I know we're two and a half hours in. Go ahead, stretch your legs. I'm not tired. I'm on my second win because we about to get this in. Uh, brother, do y'all want to say anything before we continue on? Uh, Ton Brother. >> Uh, go ahead. >> Ah, man. Um, you know, as I listen to Pastor Fred speak, it allows me to reflect on my own experiences. Um, and that's why I started the conversation off not just talking about Craig, but allowing those individuals to also reflect on your own life. You see, this is the wrong season to be walking around in this kind of manner of disgrace and dishonor. Um everything that is being done that has been done in the dark all across the Bible body of Christ everywhere is coming out on every level from the government systems to your private personal lives. And so if anything we don't get anything from this is for us to do our take up our own inventory and search our own hearts because our hearts are deceitfully wicked. >> Yeah. And even I had to deal with my own pride, my own issues. So this is hard. And then when you're being portrayed as Fred was sharing, he didn't go in a lot of detail, but he shared enough. And my heart goes out to this brother because his brother has a kind heart. He loves the people of God. And this is very difficult to do. >> Yeah. But it's important even to those pastors that are on the internet now trying to tell people to get off the internet and la that's the house of Pharisees. They're concerned about their pockets. They're concerned about their bellies. And all things shall come to light. So all I'm saying to the body of Christ and the pastors and the leadership across the body of Christ on the internet and wherever you may be, get out the way >> cuz no one wants to be in the hands of a angry God. >> And how you handle God's people. >> Yes sir. Yes sir. >> How we dismiss some of these conversations. We minimize these victims. And I'm not sitting here talking about no typical church hurt. You mad because you paid too much tithe and you ain't get. I'm not talking about none of that. I'm talking about protecting the women and children. >> Yes. Mhm. >> This is important because we're not just talking about scandal. >> We're also talking about >> the destruction of the family. And see, when you get up here and you're wounded and you're taking some of this information and you're mixing and you're merging and you you're up here projecting all your pain, you're destroying the people. So, I I I I it I just appreciate brother P uh pastor coming on here and just sharing his heart. >> Yeah. >> Understanding how difficult it is. No one wants to sit here and do this, but you have to consider your own self. And so, this is why I had to say what I had to say in the chat early today, gentlemen, because we don't have time to be playing games and asking ridiculous questions. There's too much information out here, and you must prepare yourself before your sins find you out. >> This is a call to repentance. >> Amen. >> You know, not just for G. Craig Lewis, ABCD, E FG, whatever denomination or whoever you may be. This is the wrong time to be playing around. So, uh I I just Man, this is humbling. >> Yeah. >> Because we haven't even got to the most recent things that we have to address. >> No. No, we have not. >> So, blessings to you, pastor. Appreciate that T. >> Yeah. >> My prayer is that God gives you strength. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> That you continue to stand. >> Amen. So that's all I have to say because this this right here is heartbreaking because these are women and children >> and to know that this is still going on and now the children of the leadership is doing the same thing that the parents are doing. We're turning a bl a blind eye, a deaf ear. It's not me. It's not my problem. >> Come on. >> Right. >> Come on. You know, you don't want to see nothing. You don't want to hear nothing. So I beseech you, brethren, leaders of ABC, the men in the men who call themselves elders, let me tell you something, gentlemen. If you want to be a yes man and you want to you want to sit on a man's lap and play around with God's people, you need to hold this man accountable. >> Amen. >> Y'all need to stop playing. Earl Carter, all of you all, >> we spend all day listening to you elders. >> Yeah. >> All this talk about the church of God in Christ. All these folks talking and running their mouth and complaining and we see the hypocrisy and we know that it breeds rebellion. And so the next generation of leaders are going to continue to repeat this cycle. >> Yeah. >> So this is a call to repentance. This is what this is. They say what the parents do in moderation, the children do in excess. And that's what we're seeing to this day. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, um, gentlemen, if you don't mind, >> Yes, sir. Go ahead. Yeah. >> Oh, no. No. I'm sorry, man. And I'm not this conversation, but there are some things that some there's still some business >> that needs to be taken care of. And, >> uh, Anthony, you said you weren't saying names. I'm sorry, brother. I'm saying names. In the words of Lewis, I'm saying ang and I'm showing pictures because there's a reason that this has to go forth. We again, we talked about this seven plus years. The countless testimonies, >> yes, >> the the berating of the people of God that served alongside the leadership in this church, served countless hours. I was there at night. People were li basically sleeping in the church, finishing up projects, leaving their families, doing laborers, laborious tasks. I was there many of nights. Same thing. These guys barely can put food on the table. Barely can feed their family, sleeping in cars, mistreating the people of God as if they're your servants. And meanwhile, and brother Anthony can attest to this, we had a conversation. one of the lead elders, uh, Lee was to refer to him as the pastor of pastors, mentioned the allegations, mentioned the mistreatment of God's people. Mentioned the twisting of the scriptures and how these things were being done in the in in the church and and all he could say, Ken Rose, was, "I don't know what he's done, and I don't want to know." >> And Anthony brought me on as a witness in his house. M and so we sit here 7 years later, almost nearly 7 years later, and and these men have continued to support and and prop up and and continue to serve the the purposes of this system uh called ABC. And I I got to be honest with you, it it's repulsive. And I think that not only does G. Craig take responsibility in this situation for what he's continued to do in perpetuating these false narratives in the church considering our efforts and motive but also to continue to neglect the responsibility of being shepherd to the sheep. Pastor Price doesn't even own any stake in ABC, but he was wise enough to see that there is something off about this situation. But yet, these men sit on the front pews next to victims and always looking to the left AND RIGHT AND SEEING PEOPLE that this man has allegedly been involved with. >> Come on, bro. Come on. >> We're going to show something on screen. I got to uh share my screen. >> You got it. You got it. You got the con. Let's get it. And I I don't mean this jokingly, but we we have to go here. The wall of shame. Now, I'm calling names. And the reason I'm doing this is because in negligence in accordance to 1 Timothy 5 17- 21, we already heard it from uh Seiko that the elders be uh let the elders that rule be accounted worthy of double honor, especially those who labor in word and doctrine. For the scripture said that you shall not muzzle an ox, nor uh that treadth out the corn, and the laborers worthy of his reward against an elder receive not an accusation, but on the mouth of two to three witnesses. Let them that sin rebuke before all so that others may fear. I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that thou shalt observe these things without partiality. >> Come on, sir. The elders of ABC, we have to call you on the carpet. >> That would be of course you Craig Lewis, >> Elder Aaron Lewis, Ken Rose, Cleveland Cherry. I understand that there are some other elders uh that attend the church now. They may not have been privy to the situations in past times, but they are fully aware of the things that have been stated in the church up to this point. That would be uh Willie Smith. I think Mr. Willie Smith. Uh he's an elder now. I' I've got to call the deacons out. The deacons have been there and have been in support of this. And from the reports that we've received, they have continued to perpetuate this this sinful toxic culture by continuingly doing the bidding of G. Craig Lewis. We have received reports that some of these deacons have there even and the even the wives of some of the deacons and the elders have continued to perpetuate these issues pushing people out of the church talking bad about the people of God. Now, not I won't say all of them have been there uh doing this, but we certainly have received word of some of the elders wives and some of the people being spies looking on the internet seeing who's doing what and reporting back to leadership. So, G Craig gets in the pull pit says that God showed him these things. Meanwhile, it's the Chatter Mouse running back to the pastor, telling them everything that everybody's doing on the internet. >> And of course, you know, we we we you know, we hear that Medatron is is, you know, the devil >> and so you can't trust GPT and and all of these things, but we going to tell you that God showed us things, but yet it's the people telling you the business of the other people. So, deacon Brian Johnson for Deacon Julian Fowler, Deacon Jonathan, Deacon Eddie, Deacon Jeff, and J Bryant. I don't know if what he is now, but we all know that he is the ambassador of ABC everything. And and he has a responsibility to the people of God, too, cuz he's teaching the youth. So the so the the things that are being done in the leadership he's teaching the youth and the responsibility lies on him as well and even the and it's there there are people that I will speak to as well that are not leaders but have also continued to push this toxic culture and when I say toxic I'm talking the same culture that he accused us of permitting which was of lies and and gossip and these things have gone before the people. We understand that these they're spying on people. Jay Bryan and Paz Clemente Sosa uh the security head John Harvey uh D'Angelo Weeks these are security men who are now in responsible positions but continue to do their jobs to to continue to monitor the people and look after the people and report to the leadership. Not saying that there shouldn't be security in place but it's it's done harshly. Uh Sharon and Daryl Giden, you guys, you sit in this church and you look at all of these things that are happening. You report these things to the leadership and you know how the people that were there labored among you behaved. They weren't there to try to start insurrections. We were there loving the people and trying to support the things that God thought was the Lord spirit of the Lord, but it turned into something different and you're still supporting it. dishonorable mentions. Robert and Dominique Morurell, spies. They go online and look after these things and they report it back to the leadership. >> Kevin and Tanisha Kemp, you sit on here, you talk all these things behind the scenes. We know what you were doing. It's been reported. We knew you were trying to find out what was going on with the people that were left and didn't have anything to do with the people to try to help restore them back to the faith. You were just carrying information. Karina Barnett on the front row. Needless to say more, Dr. Janine, these are the people that are in this culture that are supporting this ministry. And there's so much dead, spiritually dead bodies. I can't even write a list and it sit on my desk. My desk is 42 inches long right here in front of me. It'll travel out the door. And to sit here in 2026 and to have these things named among us or named among you, it is considered a shame. The Bible says what? Ephesians 5:11, we've heard it. Expose unfruitful work of darkness. >> Right? Do not associate with them, but rather expose them. For it's even shameful to speak of the things that they do in secret. So these things I say what I say not to disrespect or demean because these are phenomenally talented people and they've done some wonderful things for the body in in terms of service but we can no longer ignore the cries of the people and I believe that these things need to be called on the carpet. You have to start to self-examination and look at well who are you supporting? Are you honoring God or are you an adultery behind a man? >> Yeah. And it has to get on the carpet now because there are souls at stake. People that this is their first encounter with the Lord Jesus is through this ministry and how they're being loved is not according to the scripture. So I'm going to uh stop there and I apologize for taking as long as I took, but I feel that it was necessary uh and the right timing to do it because yes, G. Craig takes responsibility because he is the lead pastor of this church. But you have other people inside the church that are perpetuating the culture and dissuading people and pushing people away and saying, "Oh, there everybody's lying. Everybody's making this up." But in reality, the crowds have cried so loud. There are nights, we've sat six hours on the phone listening to testimonies from people that you guys say you love but they mistreated. >> Come on. >> Six hours. And this isn't a a flex or a boast. We we love these people. We labor. We pray with these people. And to sit here and take a position of contempt and then to know that these things are still being in support of and then to try to ease the Bible out the door even more. So, God forbid. So, a call to the carpet. And I would take this time now just to say, hey, if you really love the brothers and sisters in Christ, if you really love the Lord, >> that's right. >> Start to examine yourself, brothers. consider your situation and your part that you're playing in this. >> Yes. >> And really reflect on the behavior of the leadership and start to examine yourself to see if whether we're in the faith because this is not the faith of this isn't the body of Christ behavior. And I'm done. >> Come on. >> No, you you you spot on, brother. And real quickly here, I want before we forget this one piece. You have to go back and look at the sermons that he preaches on Sunday. You have to pay attention to the pattern called pattern recognition. It's called Darvo. Also, >> you coded messaging in sermons. >> Yeah. >> And so when people come out, the last couple sermons, you accusing people of being homosexuals and confiding in you and and you you all of this stuff, you know, even the pre- sermons. You see, you got to pay attention. This is the same process that he was doing in 2019. All these sermons that he's preached this year since this started happening. It's a coded language to keep you in bondage because you and those who many are united and joined to this man. You're not connected to the creator. You're not connected to the most high God. >> You're you're connected to the most low demi god. >> Okay? Hear me what I'm saying. And so this is why your nervous system is disrupted. >> Yeah. >> You're tied into the same perversion that many of us had to fight off. So this is not a a dash G Craig. This is let's deal with the real issue here. How can you sit there and know that this man has married off women that he has laid with and they still are there? Members have left in 2019 because of the alleged allegations and then they come back. That's a problem there, ladies and gentlemen. Brother Kevin, um I I wanted to thank uh Pastor Price um for being a stand-up guy. And uh I want to thank you, Seiko, for uh quite honestly convincing me to do something that was completely against my desire, which was to sit down and have a conversation with Pastor Price because I was I had checked a box and said, "Look, man. I'm kind of moving on. This conversation's been old. What are we talking about? what's going on. And no disrespect, Pastor Price, but I just I wasn't all about no games. And um and I appreciated um Seiko uh kind of encouraging me to uh to to have a conversation, follow up with conversation with you because it's been a blessing to me to to see um another brother in Christ stand up and to have something to say that is not scripted and that is not crouched in being a coward, but um just taking a stand and saying, "Hey man, this doesn't look Right. And um you got to get it right and it's on you. And uh that is the largest um that that is the closest thing that G. Craig Lewis has gotten to a rebuke uh with anybody that he has recently had uh in his presence. >> That's a fact. >> Yeah. >> And he selectively puts people in and around his presence so that they won't rebuke him. >> Yeah. And so I I I appreciate your um I just appreciate you standing up on this one. So So I salute you, sir, and I I appreciate you. I just want to say a few things uh regarding uh just G. Craig Lewis in general. You know, G. Craig Lewis, his persistent unrepentant unrepentant pattern of sexual immorality, slander, spiritual abuse, and rejection of correction places him in this in the scriptural uh description as those who profess to know God. >> Yes, sir. >> But deny him by their works. That's Titus 1:16. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh the words of God teach that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. A true shepherd is marked by repentance, humility, and submission to the word. Pastor Price, you showed humility, and submission to the word. I salute you, sir. >> Amen. >> Um G. Craig Lewis's refusal to repent for many years. He's been approached by several different people throughout the years. Despite multiple witnesses and repeated warnings is evidence of a hardened and unregenerate heart. Scripture says, "Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God." 1 John 3:10. >> Come on, sir. >> And no one who continues in sin has either seen him or known him. 1 John 3:6. >> Yes, sir. >> Based on the authority of scripture, ongoing behavior does not reflect the marks of a regenerate believer, but the works of the flesh. That's what I'm seeing in this man. >> Amen. >> Therefore, um you got to you got to examine him. See him for what he really is. see if he's really in the faith. 2 Corinthians 13:5. Because the present conduct gives no biblical evidence of salvation. He is not a believer based on my assessment. Say that. >> Come up with your own. >> Come up with your own. But based on my assessment, >> let me give you my assessment. after 13 14 years of following his uh ministry, joining his ministry for a little over two and a half to three years, my wife and kids, being very close to him, going back after we left his ministry and studying his words very carefully, examining them, talking to brother Billy, brother Anthony, comparing notes, comparing notes with my wife and other testimonies. I have drawn the conclusion that this man is not saved and never has been. >> Come on. >> That is my assessment of this man. My wife, she bears witness to what I'm telling you as well. Now, Kevin, well, who are you? I'm really nobody, but for your sake, I will tell you what I am or who I am. I'm a 55 year old man who's been married for over 30 years with four children. You do the math. I've watched this man. I know this man. I've seen this man. I've been around for a little bit. These are my assessment points. You need to make your own. And so when I speak about G Craig Lewis, I'm not trying to be mean and nasty. I I I I really don't No, I'm not. I I I I'm really striving to be honest and accurate and also to help some people. I don't know how y'all brain work, but my brain works like this. Sometimes I need to hear somebody call something out. >> When I hear somebody say, "You know what? That's a lie." And I say, "Wait a minute. You know what? He's right. That is a lie." >> Yeah. That's good. >> So I'm just calling it the way I see it. And I'm encouraging everybody to call it the way they see it. Now, this is a spectrum, ladies and gentlemen. I didn't I didn't jump on this spectrum yesterday. It took me a minute to gather information, to ask questions, to an analyze scripture, to pray about this, and to really go through these things meticulously to a point where I can confidently say what I'm saying. So, you may be at a different part in the spectrum. I I just welcome you to continue along that journey and gather uh the evidence, do your due diligence, be courageous enough to say and do what needs to be done. Honor the Lord in your decision-m and warn others accordingly. >> Amen. >> I yield my time. Thank you, brother. >> Amen. Anyone else? Anyone? Uh Pastor Fred, you have any thoughts, brother? Uh >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me I think we we keep triggering each other, so I hope this I hope this doesn't happen all night and then we'll get to the rest of what you wanted to share. But >> that's good. Um, >> you know, we can talk about the the the marks and and in indicators that one is is born of the spirit of God, but I think there's some other ones that that and this is to this is to everyone at at at ABC, you know, if anyone is is listening, but some of the other indicators that one has been born of the spirit of God is is regret. regret and remorse >> and contrition. >> Come on, bro. >> conviction. If if I'm truly born again >> and I have received a new nature, then fleshly and carnal activity or behavior goes against that nature. I shouldn't even feel right. I I should feel dirty like I need to be cleansed. >> Oh, so >> because it's going against my new nature. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so let the record state that that acts of integrity are recognizing when you're wrong and getting out the way. >> Acts of integrity are writing your wrongs. Uh uh uh um making amends with those that you've hurt, with those that you've harmed. >> Yeah. >> I I saw I saw uh two comments that said uh it's a possibility that I'll be a part of a rant this Sunday. >> Oh, you did believe it. >> And But but okay, but now but this is what's crazy to me. What have I actually said or done that would cause that? Is it simply because I'm on the broadcast with you all? And if that's the case, again, um and let me say this, Billy and and and Kevin and Anthony, just from the little bit of communication that I've had with you, I like y'all brothers, but but I know Teton and Seiko. I got relationship with them. So, if I'm wrong just for being on this broadcast with them, and that would make me cannon fodder for a rant, then it makes me wonder, was I ever a friend of you? Because if I've if if you're a friend and I've got friends over here, but I only choose to listen to one side or or or make public appearances with one side and neglect the other, I think that says something about my character. And I know I'm kind of reiterating what I said earlier, but again, I'm not wired that way. I can't I can't I can't just partner with you, be with you, listen to you, and then have people over here that I call brothers or that I call friends, but but ignore what they're saying or don't even take the time to hear what they're saying because that's all this is, right? Have I not made a public appearance with G. Craig Lewis in the past month or or or two months? Has has it not aired within the past month? Y >> yes. So So why would I then be judged harshly for making a public appearance with you brothers? >> So if I am and if we all are a part of a rant, I would hope that we're not. But let's really really assess and analyze what what has been said and what has been communicated here. This is about writing wrongs. This is about God's people. This is about protecting the sheep >> when when it's all said and done. So I I just I just wanted to >> Well, that little piece. >> Let me trigger you cuz I just got triggered by what you just said about being a friend. >> So I'm just going to ask you all a question. >> Oh. Oh, wait. Seo, wait before you say that. >> Okay, >> let me say this. Let me say this. Um, Seiko mentioned earlier about about, you know, how tense conversations have been in the past week. And um, and and I'm going to show you how important brotherhood is. >> This is this is this is how you know iron sharpens iron cuz Seiko and I, man, we we were sending each other some voice notes and we weren't yelling, but they were tense. >> Very. >> And so I I hit Ton up like, "Hey, you need to talk to your boy." And so, >> but yeah, he did. >> This is what I love. I had the conversation with Teton and he talks me off off the cliff >> and then I'm in in that instant like while I was talking to him I text Seiko. I'm like I'm talking to Teton right now. Bottom line I love you bro. That's all that matter. >> Facts. >> And that's what was said >> like Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean it and it was it was I put it this way. It it was it was some rabbit punches thrown. It was some rabbit punches thrown. But if you got siblings, do we always just sit down and eat cereal and under rules and don't get no fight? I mean, come on. Right. So, I'm glad that we had someone that we mutually knew that was able to bring the temperature down and say, "Wait a minute. You two ain't the issue. Y'all are arguing over the issue that's causing the issue." Which brings me to this point. Gentlemen and ladies and gentlemen that's watching in the chat. What kind of friend implies that you are in sin or knows what your sin is to a public congregation or to other people when the sin was never mentioned if at all? What kind of friend does that? >> Warlocks. That's a witch and warlock. >> What? What? What? What kind of friend does that? But the friends I know will be ride or die friend. Wait, hold on hold hold up hold up hold up. Wait a minute. Where'd you get that from? Who told you that? Right. That's that's just me. Um or or the kind of friends that I have when they hear that they don't just they don't just fan the flames of the of the mess of innuendos and implications. They say, "Wait a minute. Okay. Now tell tell this brother what you said over here." Because if you if you're that bold and have the testicular fortitude to say it over here, surely you should have be keep that same energy and and bring it over here. Right? But see what see for me my philosophy of friendship is this and this just matter of fact I believe I have a biblical philosophy of friendship. Let me tell you what it is. I'm glad you asked. If if if if if Kevin sinned against Billy, key word, sin, I ain't talking about, you know, you had a disagreement. I'm talking about there's a clear sin. We can find book chapter verse. We can find it in the scripture. That was a sin. And I found out about it. Okay. Hey, hey, Kevin. Um I was talking to Billy and he said that you said ABC Z, right? Is that true? Yeah, man. But I ain't going to say that to dude. Hold up. Hold up. Time out. Time out. Blow the whistle. flag on the field. What do you mean? You just admitted that you just did this, right? Yeah. Yeah, man. But I ain't got I'm not I'm not dealing with I ain't going to deal with you. Okay. No problem. No problem. No problem. No problem. If you're not going to deal with him, you're not going to deal with me. Then we're not dealing with you until you deal with until you deal with it biblically. What is this? What is this issue that we have going on in the body of Christ that your issue is your issue? As long as it ain't my issue. That ain't body light, bro. What affects you affects me and vice versa. So if I'm your friend Fred or if I'm your friend Anthony or Ton or whoever and you know that I am being sinned against, slandered, maliciously gossiped upon. It is your responsibility and mine if I am an earshot of it to deal with that. G Craig Lewis is not your friend, Fred. Never was. G. Craig Lewis is an opportunist. always have been. How do I know that? How do I know that? Glad you asked. Because all he heard was faith dome. That's all he heard. That was his opportunity to make himself known and make himself public in a in a on a platform that he didn't have. Now, what what can a person do for you who believes that all you can do is do for them? Absolutely nothing. That's a leech, bro. That That's a leech. That's a person that is toxic. That's a person that will siphon the very life from you and then have you thinking that y'all are cool. Now, we we like I say, we we all going to be triggered tonight cuz right now I'm I'm amped because >> okay, >> I'm I'm looking at what's going on not just in this group, but I'm looking at what's going on in the comments and I'm and I'm also seeing people that are coming out of the woodwork now in the chat. People that NOT EVEN DON'T EVEN TALK TO me and they're here. Some of the same people >> that I that I by God's >> help >> got an issue with me because OF HOW I BROUGHT THE PERSON OUT. >> Let that let that breathe, sir. Let that breathe. Breathe. Listen. Listen. It's breathing. It's breathing. >> Conversation of the night. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're having a conversation now because what I'm saying is this is how conflict starts and this is how it continues. We have to deal with the I'm not mentioning nobody's names. What I'm saying is the irony of this. It's the irony that I'm looking at. I'm looking at people are having issues with the person who they themselves had no issue with when they were in bondage. So now what are you doing? Who are you helping? Who are you ministering to? Who are you discipling? Or are you just easily just say, "Okay, well, you know what? Hey. Yeah. Uh, Teton, he was good over here when he was doing this, doing that, but now, you know, but now he got no dreads or now he, you know, it's childish, y'all. It's childish. The reason why we're here tonight is to deal with sin issues, not personal preferences. Sin, >> right? Exactly. >> The the issue right now, we have a man that has been in ministry for over two decades, and he has not sat down and won't sit down because the leadership that he have are yes men. So is it really a church or is it a cult? I I I believe it's the latter instead of the former. >> You know, I think what is important to Seiko if we don't forget this and as we proceed forward into the much deeper part of this and that's really giving context to what we're talking about. I want to speak to Will Ford, >> please. >> I love that brother, man. Um very kind, gentle, sweethearted brother. He cared about people. But to our previous conversations, I haven't talked to Will Ford since 2018. >> And the hard part about all of this is that he has to be held accountable. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because you, my brother, a prayer warrior, a leader throughout the body of Christ, you are a voice in Christendom. and you're not recognizing that you're being used the same way. As a matter of fact, you might want to check your computer >> for the hard drive. You understand what I'm saying? And so the leadership are turning a deaf ear. I want to speak to Sabatha as well. You see, we we we we have to really get down to the root of these things because this is a cancer. So when we talk about witches and warlocks, we talk about all the manipulation and the playing. Man, I miss me in chat. >> Yeah, >> we don't talk to trolls anymore. We introduce what trolls were and we let them stay under the bridge. So I I really appreciate what's happening here and we have to maintain what we're doing here and that is addressing the body. But at the same time, my brothers and sisters here, give an account to your own selves. >> Mhm. >> Because as as as Seiko said earlier, this ain't just about G. Craig Lewis. This is about Teton. This is about this is about our brother uh pastor uh Fred Price. This is about all everybody out here. Find yourself and judge yourself because today ain't the day to walk around, walk away from this conversation. as if it's been gossip and we just sitting here talking. This is seven years and and any other questions we you go to the websites, go to the channels, Righteous Judgment, go to the go to the playlist, go to Seiko's channel, you have the information there. There's no need. But I will end with this and as we go in transition, we must understand the importance of protecting our women and children. >> Come on, bro. There's no reason why a man could come into my home, unbeknownst to me, to try to pull my daughter who's in the chat, you see, who's married now, beautiful grandson. >> Come on, bro. >> But had I sat back and allowed this to happen, you see? So, we have to get the fortitude and understanding that you also are held accountable even when you sit there as an elder. Even the elders and pastors who may not be in the chat, but they're sitting in the chat looking and watching. >> Woe unto you. >> Come on. >> I'm speaking to every do denomination, every pastor, every denomination, every leader. I don't care if you Hebrew, Puerto Rican, Kic, whatever. Now is the wrong time to be playing with God's people. He said he's coming back for a church. >> Yes, sir. >> Without a spot or a wrinkle. >> Yes, sir. >> Some of these clothes need to be thrown out. >> As we transition, the Will Ford conversation and and I have to say this on record because I I went to Will Ford >> directly um and tried to reach out to him in regards to these allegations. Will Ford did not respond, did not comment back, didn't say a thing. Um I had to go through Meakans at the time to get a halfway response. But Will Ford and yes, he he may be a nice guy, but he he's acted cowardly in this and there is a lot of responsibility on his shoulders that needs to get called out. So I'm glad you did that. Will Ford is is is his wife went on record saying that there were some things that were happening with the church back in 2019 and I understand her supporting her spouse in that regard. However, there is still was and has been continuous outcry from the people of God over this situation. The the the testimonies are endless. We could go on forever about that, but I just want to say there is responsibility. I get they don't physically belong to that local assembly, but the body of Christ is not a brick and mortar. >> Come on, bro. >> It is not a physical building. That's right. You are the church. >> It is. >> We are the body of Christ. So there is a responsibility to help the body to remain protected. And so that's simply all I want to say there. Go ahead. We have one. >> No, brother. I want >> I know I I'll digress because there's we still have >> I know we do. I know we do. Look, if y'all got to go to work, I'll handle them on my own on here cuz I got things I got. I'm sorry. >> Hey, bro. I put hours into this stuff. Y'all gonna hear what I got to say. >> Y'all can get these slides. you get all this work tonight. >> Um, >> yes sir. >> So I I wanted to I want to just decipite this verse. Revelation 21, right? Revelation 21:8. John says, "But for the cowardly, that's the first sin he mentions." The cowardly. He talk about the homosexual right here. The first thing he mentions is the cowardly first. The cowardly. So people think that, you know, you can just not get involved or or or and I understand you may have a moment. You may have a moment, but that shouldn't be your manner of life being a coward. That should be your manner of life having the fear of man. That shouldn't be your manner of life wondering and and worrying about what somebody else says. Jesus said, "Don't fear the don't fear the person who can kill the body, but don't kill the soul." He said, "No, I'm I'm going to tell you who you should fear. Fear the person after the body and soul has been killed and had the person that had the power to put that person in hell." He said, God says, he said, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the one you need to fear. >> That's right. >> Our expectation and of of of judgment is very very low when it comes to standing for righteousness. I mean, none of us want to check out here early ahead of our time, quote unquote. I don't. None of us do, if we honest. But I rather stand on biblical principle and stand on the word of God knowing that yes, it may cost me my life. But let me tell y'all something, y'all. Eternity is a long time. a long time to not be able to make up what you did wrong on this side of glory, on this side of heaven. And a lot of us on how and how we live here here on this terraformer is going to be dependent on on on on how we treat our brothers and sisters here in our eternity in heaven stand before God because I can't say I love God and treat my brother or sister like a dog. I can't say I love God and watch innocent people be harmed and do nothing about it. I cannot say I love God and see people in pain, see people hurting, see people gre uh I just remembered Billy Kevin, y'all y'all told y'all mentioned uh the winter storm of 2021. Grey Lewis told his quote unquote cult congregation that the only way they can get water and any other I guess an assessment but mainly water is that they were in good standing with the church. Who does that? Who who tells people who are in need unless you are in good standing with the church you can get water and somebody said heat. So you mean to tell me people are dying, frozen? I mean being suffering from hypothermia and you're telling people they can only get the bare necessities if they are in good standing. Good standing with the church. You mean good standing with Craig? Because they ain't talking about good standing with the church >> because according to G is the standard. >> That is a true statement. Uh we received multiple confirmations on that from several witnesses that mentioned that the text went out through the church. Uh they sent a text blast out and stated that people that were in the area could come and get water and heat um and charge the devices if they were in good standing with the church. Uh and then it was mentioned that they had to go home at a certain time um because I guess they shut the building down maybe for safety reasons. I'm not certain. But that was confirmed with multiple witnesses. >> That's demonic, brother. That's demonic. But speaking but speaking of demonic, uh y'all ready to transition? We're three hours in 10 minutes and and >> yeah, I gotta change my battery in my camera. >> Yeah, you go ahead and change your battery. Go ahead and y'all go ahead and change, you know, change your clothes. Go put your pajamas on. I don't care. Y'all do what y'all going to do. I'm good. I'm good. Y'all good. I'm good. Um, let's transition. This is this is for you, Pastor Fred, and and others. Uh, I'm going to go down back in a little bit of memory lane. We're going to be like Marty McFly and go back to the future a little bit, okay? because some people may be new, but this is where it all this started. Get some confirmation here because this email that I'm presenting here was the email that was sent out by yours truly. Do y'all see the date? Is it Does everybody see the date? I'm just making sure that Are we Are we good? >> Oh, yeah. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So, December 4th at 5:41 a.m. That's when I sent this to G. Craig Lewis. Okay. Now, this young lady here was one of the individuals that uh it was reported that he had inappropriate relationship with Cynthia Ashley. Okay. This other young lady here, Lois Burke, inappropriate relationship reported that it was done. Greg, oh, by the way, this is one of his favorite fruits, if not the favorite fruit. >> Y'all see that? He loves apples from what I was told. And and who does he love having the apples delivered by? Reportedly Deona, favorite fruit. And u this is her picture by the way. And this was the letter that I the email that I sent to G. Craig. As you can see by the attached photos, you know well, you know, I'm well aware of the countless sexual relationships you've had with other women outside your marriage. So much so that your wife Saba prayed that one of the women you slept with, i.e. or that is Deona Coberson and ultimately impregnated her and the baby you aborted allegedly. But there was been evidence that the the pregnancy test was seen in the trash when this young lady went to visit Deona and her apartment. But I digress. I also have concrete and confirmed evidence of your adulterous affairs with Lois Burke, Deona Culpersonson, Arishan's wife, Carmina Barnett, Linda Jordan, etc. Just to name a few. I know of others you've coached quote unquote on how to give fellatio as well. Example, Cynthia Ashley, your deceptive tactics and manipulation to take advantage of of th over those who've entrusted themselves to your care and leadership has ended. The sands of the hourglass of your tyrannical reign and intimidation of others under the guise of truth has run its course. Others may be afraid of you, George, but I'm not. That is why I will confront you and expose you publicly with all the evidence given to me by credible, reputable, and irrefutable sources for the world to see. You've made millions exposing others. Millions, y'all. Exposing others mercilessly. Now you'll be met with the same degree of judgment against you. James 2:13. Now it is time for you to confess your sin. Repent. Step down as pastor due to adultery, intimidation, manipulation, pride, and lording over God's people. If you persist in your rebellious course of action and decide to teach at Fred Price Jr.'s church and record the truth behind hip hop 13 social esteem. This email will be shared publicly on every social media site, Christian news site, Christian radio station, and local news outlet in your area along with documents and evidence proving such accusations. God has been gracious by giving you time to repent. Consider this your final warning. Gentlemen, do y'all recall receiving that email back in 2019? Fred, how about you? Do you recall receiving that email? >> I don't know, bro. You You may have sent it and and I didn't read it. >> I CC said you read it >> cuz you said what? >> You you you I CC it to you and you said you read it and cuz you told you you told Craig about it. You said Craig got it. No, you said you know he got it because you got it. Remember that? cuz you and I had a conversation and it was seven years ago, but yeah, >> man. As you're reading it, >> huh? Go ahead. >> I'm just saying as you were reading it, it it was I mean, I'm It was shocking and hard to hear. So, >> Gotcha. Yeah, it was seven almost seven years. It was in 2019. Uh, anybody in the chat, do y'all recall? because many my my email was was full of requests because I actually had put it on a blog and for whatever reason I believe someone reported it and it was taken down and so I had to put on on my u Facebook page if you wanted to get a copy of this of the of the letter I sent to Greg and my email was just was was being lit up with requests for uh receiving that email. How many of you in the chat may have recall getting or requesting an email uh of this nature? If you do, put it up in the chat. But just wanted to give you all the the uh information regarding that. Now, reason why I shared that is because Tet I mentioned about the hard drive earlier. Right now, again, ladies and gentlemen, what I'm about to share is not going to be graphic, but I do have pictures of the hard drive and some of the photos. The images have been redacted, but it is from G. Craig Lewis's G. Craig Lewis's hard drive, and this is one of them. Uh here that's one you can see on the on the left side it's been blurred out but this is from this is from G Craig Lewis's hard drive that actually Tim Makens was retrieving trying to do trying to fix and he ended up finding he said gigabytes or g I mean would he say gigs? Did he say gigabytes? Did he say gigs? It was a lot. It was a lot of sexually explicit pictures, videos of that nature. Here's another one. If you can see here on the on the right of the individual, all this is from G. Craig Lewis's hard drive. The images have been redacted and have been blurred out for obvious for obvious reasons. Now, if you see just slightly to the left of the of the redacted image, that blurred picture right there on the right, some of you may remember who that individual was because that was one of the images that was shared. She had on like a um I guess she a pearl uh necklace or something to that something to that effect. But not really sure how old she was. Not really sure what the age of these individuals were, but there's gigabytes and gigabytes of these images of G. Craig Lewis um having having relationships and performing sex acts with women that were not his wife. Just wanted to show you all that in case y'all thinking this was being made up, it's not being made up. wanted to also share with you as well this here. Um, how can I say this? Well, I guess I'll just say it this way. Let me go back to the to the screen for a second. If someone were to if someone were to say to you um you know you have not been with my spouse whatever whatever the case might be whatever the case might be what is one way that someone can kind of like you know give evidence or attestation that yeah I I you know we've had a relationship we we I you know I know this I know that well this particular individual that I had a conversation with had a sexual relationship with G Craig Lewis I interviewed this individual and this is what she said. Bear with me. There's two parts of this of this um interview. It's not not pretty long, but the information is very um it is irrefutable to say the least. Let's go. When was the first time y'all had a sexual relationship? You and Greg? Was that in 2010 too or was it did it was did it happen after 2010? >> That was 2010. How how many times did y'all have I guess have sex during that during the time that you met him? >> Let me see. One, two, three, one, two, three, four. Counting the time at his house. Five. >> So you actually had sex at his house. >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> The weekend that I went That was like Memorial Day weekend. That was like um so we saw each other even after I left the cult I left out. I came back. Mhm. I came back in May. >> Okay. >> Of 2011 >> of 2011. You said >> Yep. I knew Carina. >> You knew Carmina? >> I didn't. Well, I never met Carina, but he always talked about Carina. And >> what did he say about her? >> Okay. Carina is the one who introduced um him he and Seba. Mhm. >> He he and met Carina in college at >> Okay. >> They went to college together and Carina and Greg were sleeping together long after um he and Sebath were even married and still sleeping together is my understanding even when I was there. And I knew that because she had described some marks on her back and she had described that she had like a back condition and her the way her she had like not scolio not full scoliosis but but see she had a curvature spine condition. Okay. >> And he said the way her back uh curved and everything and he was really detailed about that. And he said that he goes over there a lot. Goes over her house and she always had uh her relationship with men never worked out. And he just always talked about that. >> I know you said you you you all have had you know sexual relations in at his house. Um >> yes. >> Any anything particular in the room in the bedroom? Anything that >> Okay. >> So I remember walking in the house and it's like wooden floors. So, we walk in and I've been trying like for the past couple days. I don't know. I've been trying to really really never. >> And there's a dining room to the right. That's where the kitchen table is. And when you move forward, if you walk a few steps forward, you see the kitchen also to the right. And he had an island in the middle of the kitchen where the uh kitchen counter is. And the sink is on the other side of the island. And he goes past the kitchen. Oh, no. Immediately to your left, you see the closet. It's like a small closet. And that's where he showed me later on where his guns are. All the collection of guns. >> Is that downstairs or that upstairs? >> Downstairs. Downstairs. >> Okay. >> Okay. And then that closet, right, right past that closet is where the steps are to the upstairs. The stairs are. So, we walk forward past the stairs and that's where his uh TV is, the game room. >> Okay. >> The where the couch area is. >> Okay. >> Um, you go past that TV. You would like there's a little shower behind that van and I took a shower there because I was on the road and I didn't have AC in my car at the time. It it went out. It was really hot. So, I had to take a shower. He let me take a shower and there was some soap in there. I used use my uh daughter's shower gel. So I used that bathroom. I don't know if it had a toilet in there. I can't remember, but it did have like a shower. >> Okay. So you you used um used Vickiy's shower stall or her shower gel? >> It was both. I'm trying to remember. I I did use that shower, but I I don't remember the gel. I think you just mentioned Oh, she has the shower gel in there, too. But uh definitely I was in that shower. So he allowed me to go in there and take a shower. But past that the little shower on the other side is outside. So that's like his backyard. Back porch in the backyard. Okay. >> Okay. And this is still on the first floor. >> Yes. >> Uhhuh. Still downstairs. Now you come out of that bathroom. Across the hall is I think the little movie theater. Yeah. Big chairs in there. And there's like a movie screen. I'm trying to make sure that wasn't upstairs. I believe it was. Yeah, I believe I believe it was it was upstairs. Yeah. And um we went in there and that was one of the places where we where we had sex. >> Now, how long how longa gone when all this had happened? How long was she gone for the weekend or something? What what what occurred to you to be that that long? >> It was two days. It was it was two days. It was like a Friday to Saturday afternoon. >> And his kids were gone too. >> Yep. Mhm. >> So the kids >> Okay. So, Saba took the kids out of town. >> Yeah. >> And And how did y'all hook up? He called you to come over or you called him to come over? >> Um, he called me. Okay. >> Because I was in Houston. >> Okay. >> I was in Houston. Yeah. And I I drove all the way down. >> Any details about about the uh about the sex act that y'all may have had. You you say you had six how many like five or six times you said? I don't want I don't want to misquote your the the occurrences. Yeah, the whole time that we were together together, but that weekend it was probably one, two, three times. >> Three times that weekend that y'all were together. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Any details? >> Yeah, sure. I won't share. He told me, "Oh, the first girl I had sex with, I she still sprung on me and she went crazy. Uh, she still hadn't she's still not over it." M. >> So, uh, he said, "I would never," he said, "I'm not going to do that to you. I would never do that to you." So, whenever we would get together, it would just be oral sex or um he would uh just I would lay down on my stomach and he would climb on top of me there or um it would happen during massages and it would be oh, how how do I say this? Um hand job. >> Was it mutual? Yeah, one weekend. It was not that weekend. >> Was it Was it Was it he doing you or you just doing him? >> Which time? >> The the weekend that that you were there in Saba in his in the >> in his house. >> Yes, >> it was just him. Okay. That time in the movie theater, it was just him on top of I was laying on my stomach and he was he didn't penetrate me, but he he cut Sorry, it's got a weird me telling people. >> Yeah. No, I understand. Yeah, I understand. I'm just Yeah, I'm just asking for for the sake of just trying to get the facts, ma'am. That's all. >> Right. Right. He put his his penis between my cheeks. Then one time we went upstairs to his bedroom. Then his bathroom in, you know, that his bedroom leads into his bathroom. Him and his baby's bathroom has a jacuzzi in it. So he ran the water and we got in there. We just did a little bit in there. >> What do you mean by a little bit? You can be more specific if you don't mind. >> So he laid down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He laid down and I was just on top of it. Yeah. But again, there was no penetration. It was just kind of like pumping, I guess. And then the night, the first night that I was there, Friday night, we spent the night in. It was a room. I don't think any of his kids slept in that room. It was a room that he kept a lot of the sports paraphernalia in like a lot of Dallas Cowboys. >> Yes. >> It was a bed in there in that room because it's just a lot of I just remember a lot of paraphernelia. Sports >> paraphernelia. Gotcha. um and maybe some of his son stuff in Maryland and stuff, but um and some stuff in the closet, but I don't think that he would would want to just go in there and just ran back his son's room and put another woman in there. But um we we slept in there and then we you know did the same thing. We basically it was what did we do that night? interesting. She liked massaging a lot. >> Any distinguishable, I guess you can say parts anatomically that you would know that only you and Ba would know that he he has. >> Well, I just remember him saying this about his penis. You know, he always told me to ingest. Well, I got that period, but you know, you may be aggress may have been injurious or something like that. >> Did you see it? >> Yeah. Uh-huh. >> You did? Okay. >> Um, so if Sabatha were to say, and I'm just using this, you know, a scenario. If Sa were to deny that you ever saw her husband's body, what would you what would what could you say in response to to to you know to verify or to confirm that you have? >> Everybody knows he has those freckles on his face, >> right? >> Um he's very I mean he's light skin all over detailed. Remember I just remember stuff that he said. >> Okay. Uh >> yeah, he took medicine, too. He said he had a doctor in Florida. He kept saying that he had a doctor in Florida, >> a female doctor. >> Um, he didn't say. >> Okay. >> He didn't say, but he had to go to Florida a few times a year. >> Okay. Did he say why? >> Florida? No. >> What What made you I guess what made you decide to contact me and reach out to me, let alone, you know, let alone disclose, you know, your your your experience and, you know, what you went through? >> Yeah. I'm just happy there's someone else out there possibly >> with my same experience. Not that no one in your videos has my same experience, but I'm working on a Hail Mary that somebody that contacted you possibly does. I didn't go after him. She came after me. Uh but I fell in the trap. >> And it could really happen to somebody with my vulnerability. >> Yeah. He came after me two years after I blocked him and then he kept going happy Valentine's Day. I wrote an email to other people but I did not save those texts >> because I tried to get help. I went pastor's wives. I told them about it. I and they just told me why didn't your discernment tell you otherwise? Why didn't you I just can't explain it. M >> um I asked him, "Can Saba join us in the lunches?" He said, "Nah, I take care of this, you know. Nah, she doesn't she doesn't she doesn't um come to lunches with me, you know. Nah, she doesn't do this." So, I tried to um proceed with caution before I was given the ultimatum because I asked them, "Can I join your church before?" And when I was given that ultimatum of no you can be my friend or join the church, I had gotten in too deep emotionally. >> So he had this relationship with you. You cut it off. I guess you could say what in in 2011 you you basically tried to, you know, basically leave him alone. >> Um >> in mid January in mid January >> of 2011 >> because on Mhm. New Year's Eve. >> Okay. Uh, I came back early from Christmas break to go to a hotel with him. >> You know what hotel it was? >> Remember? I'm trying to remember right now. >> Okay. >> I'm trying to remember right now. I knew you would ask. Lord have mercy. I want to say Marot or Addison, but it was in his it was in his part of time. He he chose it. You could tell he's been there before. >> How do you Why you say that? He knows the exact one to choose. >> Billy. Billy. >> First time hearing that. This is my first time hearing that. Oh my god. >> I told y'all I've been sitting on receipts for years. >> Is it over with? >> Yeah. Um I'm I'm >> When was it going to end? Um >> Well, that's that's just one. Um, got a few more. >> Now, was this during this Was this during when we did Mother of All Gods? >> Yeah, >> around that window of time. >> Uh, it was 2010. She mentioned 2010. So, I'm not sure about release dates of videos. I don't know. But she said, um, it was 2010, 2011. Uh, he would he would invite her over. Sa you heard on the recording Sabbatha and the kids would leave and he said that they'll be gone for a while m for the weekend and she would bring he he would bring her over. My question is have any of you men been at G Craig Lewis's house? I ain't say his bedroom I said his house. Have you ever been to his house? >> Yes sir. >> Okay. Does he have a movie theater? >> Yes I don't know. It's uh you come in, go to the far left through the kitchen and on the left I think there's a garage. Used to be a garage. Yeah, there's a theater there. >> Okay. Uh so how accurate was her was her testimony of description of the house? >> I'll mute. >> Okay. Any any any I mean >> go jeez. Yeah, she's accurate. Very accurate. My Yeah. Very accurate. >> So she's not lying. She's not lying. No. >> Okay. All right. So, that's that's that's one. Um, as I queue up the other ones, and y'all can y'all can talk amongst yourselves. Uh, go right ahead. >> Shake. Wait. >> Uh, just a little bit of a timeout. Um, >> sir, >> you know, that was hard to listen to. >> Yes, sir. >> Um, >> I warned him though. >> I warned him. I warned him. I warned him. >> No, you did. And and I told you for me personally, I said, "Don't let me hear anything or don't show me anything or or let me hear anything." >> I did. Yes, sir. >> Until this broadcast. >> Yep. >> And so I'm I'm trying to wonder, did I do I regret saying that because >> Yeah. We're not done, brother. Uh in the words of Teddy Riley, it ain't over. The party's not over. >> Well, okay. And I and I I say this honestly and I'm I'm just asking the question is >> and and this is I guess I'll do this and Seiko if you don't mind for the chat. >> Is is this irrefutable or in fact is this enough information for you to make an informed decision about this >> particular situation. And I asked that because you know there's there's like we mentioned before the hours and hours of content that's been produced and you know the brothers and myself putting this information out there and you know a lot of people called us liars >> and said that we were making this stuff up and said that we you know tinfall hats whatever they you know there was a lot of information you know they call you a liar psycho and y >> and and so there this information is is the first time that this has come out. And so I'm I'm like, well, what could what what and then this is not a way, you know, what can you say? This is just like, is this enough? Because that to me was, you know, if I had pearls, I'd clutch them. Like, oh, >> we're not done. >> Oh my god. >> I got two more pages. >> Wait, what does that mean when you say two more pages? It means I have two more pages of of content of of recordings and slides and yeah, >> I mean, y'all can leave. I mean, >> let me just and yeah, I'm going to have to I'm going to have to drop off. I got to be up early in the morning for my uh son's ceremonies and stuff like that. But it was good seeing y'all brothers. But let me just uh let me just end with this. You know, Billy Billy asked a very important question, right? Is this enough? Um, I I I would say just, you know, being a former police officer and doing criminal investigations, >> um, >> it's it's not enough in and of itself, right? It's it's circumstantial evidence, but it's not enough in and of itself, >> but it this is not the only piece of evidence that we have here, >> right? >> There is an entire corroboration of evidence and witnesses. And so anyone that's listening to this should not be thinking, "Oh, okay. Well, this could be anybody that you could have gotten to talk to to say these things, and you know, never mind the details about the house, so on and so forth. But what they would have to contend with is the corroboration of evidence. >> That part >> that is endless here. So not not enough in and of itself, but when you corroborated it with the with with the rest of the evidence that that we have already presented, Seiko has um uh T Ton has, I mean it is extremely significant and it is very very difficult to uh ignore and uh it's it's it is beyond a reasonable doubt in my personal opinion. >> So I just want to leave it at that. But uh hey, love y'all brothers. Uh I'm gonna enjoy my grandson and and my son tomorrow. Uh very good time. So >> I say >> seeing y'all brothers. >> Would it also matter? But the fact that he does not even want to come forward and even address like like like what pastor Fred was saying, he refuses to even address his or address his accusers. I mean he even if it was from a constitutional standpoint, he has a right to to address his accusers to confront his accusers. He don't even want to do that. He refuses to respond or answer any of these questions. >> And and then let me say this um because Teton had to address gossipers. >> Yes. >> Or or no, I'm sorry, people accusing >> right >> this broadcast of of being a a gossip session >> and that's not what it is. Um, I'd be curious if that's what if that's what it was. What what would I have to gain by joining the broadcast for the first time? >> And then secondly, >> that's right. >> Yeah. >> Teton has said this numerous time. I mean, numerous times. This goes back to 2019. The whole goal has always been to deal with this privately. >> Yep. and and and and every effort to do that was met with resistance met met with the with the wall of Troy. So for anyone wondering well why is yes does I really say I don't I don't want to hear that again. I don't want to hear anything else like that again. But if anyone's wondering why Seyo played that and probably even wondering maybe Seiko, why are you even asking those kinds of detailed questions? It's because unfortunately it has come to this, >> right? >> Because this this could have all this this could have been avoided. It it really could have been avoided and >> Yeah. This is this is that it's damning. It's very damning. >> Yeah. And >> it's a black eye. It's a black eye. And there's a biblical precedent because of this as well. That's why we read the scriptures that that if you when you read the scriptures, you know, Deuteronomy 19, Matthew 18, first we can't we can't even the person that's being accused has a right to be examined. They have a right to to confront. They have a right to question. Proverbs 18:17, the first present's case seems right. Right? These individuals appear to be right in their case, in their experience. The Bible says until another person comes along and questions them. That's why I ask those questions and some of the questions and that's I didn't even go some of the stuff I didn't I didn't I I I redacted what she described about his genitalia. I redacted that on intentionally redacted that. But there's enough evidence to provide that will show okay no one else has been in my house or if people have been in my house I know who they are. How does this person know what's in my house? How does this person know I got a jacuzzi? How does this person know that I don't like Oh, no. One of the things she said also is in another recording is that Saba has a lot of pillows on her bed and that she makes her bed slow. Why would why would Greg tell her that? I mean, these this is stuff that you would even have to talk to someone about unless you have a relationship with them of an intimate nature or you're just a big mouth and like to talk. And that's G. Craig on both counts. We haven't even I haven't even pulled up the the uh I haven't even pulled up the uh the infamous uh Marilyn Monroe effect. G Craig's voices on the video. What what what do you have to say? What What do you do with this? Again, like I said, telling him that he he needs to step G. Craig Lewis is is permanently disqualified. He never was qualified. How is a self-appointed pastor a pastor? I I'll wait. How is a self-appointed pastor a pastor? Who laid hands on him according to scripture? Nobody. Buler. Buler. Nobody. Right? Because it's not biblical. So, let's continue on because in this in this clip, you have the infamous Marilyn Monroe effect and then Tim Meakans in his own words describing what's on the hard drive and his relationship, G. Cra Lewis relationship allegedly quote unquote with Deona Carverson. Let's go. God don't like that. Almost almost came. >> Will you stop? I'm doing all the same part. You want to say more than the floor? You can't see anything. What do you want? What do you want me to do? Hold that. I mean, what what is that? It's closed. >> Yep. Spin around. >> Go. >> Spin around so you can give it that Marilyn Monroe effect. Me Marilyn Monroe who left the building that went back in the days and yay and nay not here. >> The man needs the man needs prayer. I'm talking about the man needs so much prayer. It's it's it's amazing how they still with him. And I believe that God put Jonathan in their life >> to keep her with him because if it wasn't for him, she'd already been gone. >> So she know she know about all the infidelity. >> Oh yeah. She knows about a lot of In fact, she told the she told the women the women's group that she's the most forgiving person that she knows. When you can walk out, when you can walk into a room in your house and you smell butt and you see butt in the air and you can forgive your husband, that's when you know you were wrong. >> Who told you that? >> Where did Kevin go? quick. Yeah, he he he didn't want to probably was afraid of what else was going to show up. Um c >> can I say this real quick, please? Absolutely. >> On that last bit um on that last bit that you you mentioned about that was mentioned believe it allegedly was Tim stating that >> um Jonathan came into that life. All right. This was reported to me that there was a a sister mentioned the a brother uh was having some issues in his relationship went to Louis >> and Lewis asked this brother hey was what you know I'm having some problems what can I do >> to keep my relationship my marriage and he told the brother to get her pregnant >> so that she would stay >> Mhm. And that's exactly what he did in that such a state. So my >> Wow. >> hearing that and then hearing this. >> Yeah. >> You you see where I'm going with that? And so I that was advice given >> according to the witness that was provided out of this information to me >> and this was their account. >> Yeah. >> Of the story that they provided us. And I >> yay. um to hear that and to hear what they mentioned, the fact that that was advice just simply to another brother to to reconcile their relationship is bad enough. >> Mhm. >> But you also also in in a in a twisted, perverted way. It makes it makes sense when he teaches about the sperm doctrine, doesn't it? In a twisted, demented, perverted way. He says the sperm covers the woman. Don't have to don't have to picture that, but that's what he said in his sermon, quote unquote. Almost done. Almost done. Almost done. Anybody had any other thoughts want to share anything else? I mean, Fred, you good? You good, Fred? I mean, I know you you you was congenial with the with the rebuke and and understandably so, but this is the real G. Craig Lewis here, sir. This is the G. Craig Lewis that has been this way and I read his excerpt from his own book in his own words. He's been this way. This is not new. That's why I read 1 Timothy 5:24-25. The sins of some the sins of others are quite evident. It goes before, but some things come after. Well, we're in the after now. It was before. It's gotten worse now afterwards. And this man has not changed. Not one. Not one bit. Not one bit. We can we can continue on. Go ahead. Please go ahead. I want to give you time to talk. >> I just wanted to um interject um the uh softwarbelly interview with Michaela Thornton. Yes. I just want to bring that everybody's attention again. So, as you recall, Kevin Thornton, the uh part of the the band Color Me Bad in the '90s, popular group, uh G. Craig Lewis claims that he cast out 42 demons. We talked about that. Well, he has four children. One of the youngest is called Michaela. Michaela recently came out on the White Underbelly um podcast and she she shared what life was like growing up with her father >> and she also gave us um inside understanding of the connection between her father and G. Craig Lewis. Number one, she said G. Craig Lewis lived down the street from them. Number two, she said uh her uh G. Craig Lewis was the mentor of her father. She also went on to say that her father was a pedophile in her opinion allegation. She alleges her father was a pedophile and she alleges her father sex traffked uh her siblings and mentally, psychologically and sexually abused them. This was her testimony. And so uh I find it very strange that the the Holy Spirit can tell G. Craig Lewis to play music to cast out the 42nd demon, but the Holy Spirit didn't tell G. Craig Lewis that uh Kevin Thornton was allegedly uh doing sexual deviant things to his children. I find that very telling. And um also my wife is trying to get in touch with the other sibling to corroborate um what the um what Michaela has already told my wife. My wife went and went and met with Michaela. And so these things are very disturbing. Here's the thing that really got me. Excuse me. Michaela said, "You know, I I I have a hard time remembering some of these things, but one thing I do remember is after G. Craig Lewis came into my father's life, it seemed like our life, my father became a worse parent." >> Wow. >> It was like it just it just it just seemed like it was worse. Now, >> yeah. >> I I take a step back and I say, you know, and also Michaela said their family revered G. Craig Lewis. So, I'm putting all these pieces together. So, the way I'm looking at this is this >> G. Craig Lewis has a very doineering um God told me, God showed me black and white, thus sayaith the Lord um energy about him. And he can be very convincing, but he can be convincingly wrong, >> right? >> And he's very dogmatic about a lot of things. And if you don't have a strong enough personality, uh if you don't have a little bit of discernment and kind of like, man, get out of here with that, >> you could fall prey to him, >> you know, um if if you are the type of man that that just doesn't know how to handle that. And if Kevin Thornton kind of started off in life kind of, you know, doing the, you know, band boy, millions of dollars, but then just said, I don't want to do this, and G. Craig Lewis looks like the man of God, >> right? Kevin Thoron may very well kind of turn his conscience or his mind over to G. Craig and say, "Teach me, pastor, how to be a godly man." >> Yeah. >> And G Craig Lewis in his fallen state, uh, telling people that his music is is greater than the name of God. And all this other stuff and his God complex, he may have really supercharged and messed up a young believer called Kevin Thornton. This is the problem with G. Craig Lewis. You've got babes in Christ and you've got this man running a muck and it's messing people's minds up and it it plays out in the family. That's what's that's how that's how this thing plays out. One quick uh story about you Craig Lewis as well >> his teaching he has taught I heard him teach this. He said a married woman's prayers cannot be heard by God. >> I'll repeat it. >> I heard him I was there. He said a married woman's prayers can not be heard by God. He went further to say in order for a married woman's prayers to be heard by God, she must go to her husband. He she tells him the prayers and he will make them to her. This was at a hero's meeting. Several brothers have already testified to this. Now, here's the fruit of that teaching. years later, we're talking to a sister and she's talking about how she had uh problems in her marriage. And she says, "Kevin, I remember that teaching from G. Craig Lewis because God doesn't hear my prayers." She said, "Here's the thing. I was having problems with my husband. Couldn't talk to him. Uh couldn't talk to God because God don't hear my prayers." She said, "I thought about suicide." Seiko, you just said, "I'm surprised nobody has, you know, you know, killed him, right?" And so, and she said, "I I didn't do it, but I thought about it." And so oftent times my ignorance has been when I hear crazy stuff from G. Craig Lewis, I poo poo him. I said that's garbage. I don't need to say anything. The elders up front. I'm quite sure they'll correct him down the road. I don't need to worry about it. But I failed to think about the new believer. >> Yeah. >> I failed to I failed to think about that person who was vulnerable and have and they have him lifted up as godlike in their mind >> and what he says, they truly believe it. >> Yeah. they they really believe this stuff. Um, and so that is what his teachings do. And so I am of I'm of the opinion that it's very possible that Kevin Thoron and what he may have done to them girls and and his children may have been worsened because of his connection with G. Craig Lewis. I cannot prove it. I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me, right? Because I >> I see the fruit of his uh his ministry and how he ravages families and relationships. I'll yield the floor. >> Yeah. No student is above his teacher, but when fully trained, Jesus says, will be like their teacher. So, >> yeah, >> that's it's that's the unfortunate reality. It's positively and negatively true as well. Let me um let me continue. >> By the way, Kayla has uh some somewhere over 360,000 views on White Underbelly. Uh she's only been up there for about a week. >> Wow. That's good. That is good. Um let's continue on. I know I know it's getting late for some of you all and I understand you may have to leave. So, you just have to watch the replay, but I want to make sure that I do what I can to put this information out and give you brothers opportunity to do it as well, too. And also um with uh Pastor Fred, if he's willing to um you know, tough it out and because I I have something else I need to share with him. I'm going to try to skip around because I want to get his full effect on these things as well too because he has he yeah publicly he's made his statement to to to G Craig. I believe even more so is going to probably is going to probably prompt you to even say more when you hear what he says and then connect the dots to these other things. Um because >> Seiko and I I just want to I want to bring this to your attention. Everybody who's listening to this, somebody who even is new to this conversation, I just want to give you guys some grace because it's a process, man. It >> is. >> You some stuff. You going to be like, I know you're not lying, but I I I just can't receive it to a place where I can process it and then make a sound decision. Yeah. Uh at time, give me a minute with this information, >> right? because so much uh and and a lot of stuff by to to God be the glory. I didn't see a lot of this stuff coming. So um my wife and I talk about this. We're like, man, we was G. Craig Lewis, >> we was G Craig Lewis strong. >> And had you hit us up when we was in the midst of being G Craig Lewis strong, I would believe it. >> Yeah. >> But I may have been one of them people where I'd have been like, man, I think I need to go to that church and just double check some stuff. >> Wow. Yeah. >> I'm going let it >> Okay. Anyone else before we continue on? Does anyone want to you know give you opportunity to share your thoughts, have a question, comment as well as we continue on 233. >> I guess the I guess the hard part about listen I mean I'm hearing this for the first time. I guess the hard part about it is that one of the reasons why I'm back into this conversation because there are new allegations. >> Yeah. and and the hard thing I can't process the most which I I understand it uh clinically right but the audacity to still have women there that you know that you have been with and you're still ministering you're all over the internet preaching hard. >> Yeah. And this is this is difficult to to sit here and listen to these kinds of things. But at the same time, man, we got to get out the way, man. This is this is no time for foolishness. So, this is hard to hear. >> Yeah. >> So, let's uh continue on. >> All right, let's go with the next clip. >> Tim Meakans has a hard drive of G. Craig Lewis's sex videos and sex tapes. This is how I was able to ascertain copies of it because he has the copies on his on his computer. But he also made copies and put it on Will Ford's computer unbeknownst to Will Ford. >> Dude, I have I have the utmost of compassion for him. >> Ton, I'm telling you, one thing I'll never do is drag somebody's name down without hardcore evidence. M >> and what I did was I put all the evidence that I had because at that time he made me so bad that I was going to sit that every hard drive that I had in my possession of DX Ministries. Anything that ever belonged to him, I ran scams on everything. I got every every piece of evidence, every picture, every >> That's why he didn't want nobody talking to you. That's why he was drug he dug you so hard cuz he want none of us talking to you. probably I had everything that I could possibly find. Gigs of information and I was going to take it to Jake and say, "Here's your boy right here." >> Wow. >> It's only It's only the grace of God. >> That wouldn't have been good >> that I'm a child of God that I didn't because the first thing I thought about was his son and I thought about his wife and I thought about I didn't think about him. >> I thought about his family, >> right? >> I was like, dude, I wouldn't it's it's not even worth it. So what I did, what I was for the computer had a bad hard drive. So I ended up putting all this information on a hard drive. I put inside of this computer, reformatted it as a safe key. I'm glad that that computer your boy was on something back then, dude. I was I was like, "Okay, God, I hear what you're saying, but but I ain't gonna be no, you know, He was >> the order blah blah blah. So dude, I go to his computer. I start >> Oh, man. What else you got, man? >> Man, I don't know, man. >> Goodness gracious. >> Oh my gosh, man. Like, >> I ain't even eight and I'm gonna need some rolls, man. >> Hey, bro. >> Oh, I'm trying to see if I can try to get my strength back. You just might just roll a little video and rant and call it a night. This is crazy. I mean, if it's the Listen, if y'all done Hey, that that's >> No, no, I know. Well, we gonna execute, but it's just like this is overwhelming. >> Yeah, I know, bro. I I I didn't >> I mean it's just like you know and the thing about it >> is heartbreaking because you know these things like this private matters to some degree but also to the point of >> the man when the Bible speak when the word speaks about pride comes before the fall. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. and how you observed from as an observer, hear me out, >> right? >> There are things there are patterns of behavior that and and early on in EX ministries, there were just certain things we didn't do, right? And so now you seeing him doing things over the years that we like, man, I I'm he's on he's doing all these podcasts. He's all over the internet. Everybody, this is like this rebirth of the truth behind hip-hop and it's just and now having to deal with this. Now, this was a private matter. Who was trying to handle this? And now it's out here. The fallout and the consequences of sin, the consequences of the damage that's been done. This is why it's important to protect our women and our children. But, but who's going to protect us from ourselves? And when we stray away and we walk in sin and we walk in unrighteousness and those who sit around and observe and they just kind of, you know, Yeah. You you >> Yeah. >> You talking about an hourglass, >> right, >> man? This is disheartening, but this is what happens. Um, this is what happens. >> Yeah. >> It's unfortunate, but let's go back to the scriptures. What does the Bible say? >> Yeah. >> And so, we spend years handling people's personal business, blogging. It was so bad, man. I got to a point, man, I'm telling Bobby like, "Yo, man, we got to find something encouraging to post. This is hard." >> Yeah. >> And so you reaping what you're sewing when you And when you sit and I watched a video and he was talking about Brian Karns. I I saw I watched it today. I saw it for the first time today and he was very, you know, you know, you shouldn't be talking about him, blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, "Brother, do you do you recognize how much stuff that's out there? How much damage that's been done?" >> Yeah. Yeah, >> this is Yeah, this is tough. And so there's a call to repentance, but I just think he don't need to be preaching nothing >> at all. >> Nothing. There's no more truth behind a hip hop. These messages have been regurgitated and flipped and flipped and flipped and people are not understanding what's happening. You came to ABC not to get the gospel to grow and learn. You came to be embedded into this this this wickedness. >> And then you look go back and look at the sermons. The sermons are just keeping you gridlock locked in with fear. And not only that, it's a spiritual abuse. The impact of your physical body. I was listening to some of this and my body started responding. >> Wow. >> So your nervous system is on fire. Are you in fight or flight or fawn mode? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And so when you leave a ministry like this, a fear-based ministry, the the impact that it has on your body, your mind, and your soul. >> It's >> it's devastating. So this is why it's so important like you know you we we have to take up inventory and look at our own selves. You know, >> I know brothers who left the ministry >> and got off into all kinds of stuff >> and destroyed their families. They're on the internet being caught up in and prostitution and they're running around with pastor labels. Their children are confused. They don't want nothing to do with religion anymore. Homes are destroyed. And now you keep perpetuating this same >> Yeah, man. >> stuff over and over again. You have the audacity >> to talk about of Jake, of Flakes, whoever it is. >> Yeah. >> We We got to Man, we all have to repent. >> Yeah. >> Every day you have to look at yourself, search your soul, and say, "Lord, I don't want my sins to be found out. So if I'm harming a brother or sister, I need to go back and apologize. I need to go back and get that right." >> Yeah. Yeah. And >> so we there was a time, brother Seiko >> and brothering, there was a time where >> all this brother had to do was do what was righteous. >> That's right. >> And and praise God for Pastor Fred because man, he's an example of this >> today. >> Right. Yeah. >> We can't keep carrying this gospel message. We can't keep carrying this call of leadership and pastor and and we don't take it as something sacred. >> Come on. >> There were times when I went to ABC, my brother, I didn't even want to I I don't want to preach, bro. Imm >> No. >> Wow. >> I can't do this. >> Yeah. >> I didn't know why. I just I It was just It was too much. I would get my You ask my children, brother, we would fly out and flies out, you know, all these gifts and all this all this stuff. And I It was horrible. But I couldn't understand what I was experiencing. So sitting here listening to that and re-remembering things that have happened, man, our goal is to heal. But we got before the healing take place, we got to deal with this stuff. >> Yeah. >> And so you're seeing these patterns all throughout the body of Christ. And everybody want to blame it on the devil, >> right? How dare you? >> When you've been chasing the devil, you now have become what you hate. >> So in comes the fall, the openf face shame. So God have mercy on this brother, man. Have mercy on his family. Have mercy on the members of the church. But most importantly, >> man, I the the reprivbated mind, man, to get up here and talk and preach all this stuff and be dogmatic about this and you're dragging everybody's stuff out here. Now your stuff is out here. >> Yeah. >> So this is this is difficult. Very difficult. But it's necessary to show our leadership Hebrew Hebrew Chinese Catholic whatever you are. You pastors that are watching this man. >> I want >> heavy is the head. >> That's it. >> Heavy is the head brother. that wears a crown. I I wanted to say this, man. Um I don't know what's going on other than the fact that and I'm not trying to be spooky or anything like that, but I have fiber, Billy. I have fiber internet, bro. Fiber. I don't have I don't have, you know, cable. I got fiber internet. AT&T, remember we talked about this about my connection issues and all this other kind of stuff. Why would my internet go out now? >> It's Fiverr. I ain't trying to be spooky for you. >> Did you pay your bill, >> bro? Hey, bro. I stay current. I stay. >> It's okay, Psycho. Listen, you're becoming more charismatic every day. Just accept it. >> Just accept it. >> No, man. This is terrible, bro. I got I got I got to tap I got to tap out and say I Hey, bro. I concede. I mean, that right here, I believe this was a spiritual attack. I I I believe this is this was spiritual. >> Well, and in the in a fairness of this, um, let's put it out there. I'll just say this because >> it's been an abundance of information. Um, you know, this is like going through the the time machine at warp speed and you're seeing all this and Yeah, exactly. It's it's on that level. And you know, uh, Pastor Price, you you're you know, this is literally brand spanking new to you. I can only imagine your thoughts on this. And so, I mean, as far as the stoppage, I mean, it stopped, right? But as far as being constructive and and addressing and dealing with, I I think, you know, we've hashed out all the the the conversation surrounding this. Is there anything else other than, you know, I mean, is there anything else that needs to be addressed and hashed out because >> Well, I I think the rant speaks to the pride. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, let's hear it. The rant. Um, do I have that rant? I don't know if I got the rant. I know I have the uh >> I thought you had a video a video the book excerpt. >> Yeah, I got the book. I wanted to read the book and um I believe uh well a matter of fact maybe like three or four clips and then I think I I'll I mean because like I said I had another page but this some of this stuff is already some of this stuff is pretty much what we had discussed and has been shared before and I know I know I know know it's uh it's late but I wanted to touch on uh I'll read I'll highlight the book real quick. I'll do that. I highlight the book >> psycho. >> Yes sir. Yes, sir. What's up? What you got? >> Um, there was one remember the last thing you let me hear and that's when I told you don't let me hear anything else. >> Yes. >> But you remember how I reacted to that? >> That's what I was going to play. >> Okay. Cuz that tie that ties in. Yes. That I So So I'm I'm I'm going to play that, but I got two surprises for you. Even though you were there, but I'mma connect it. Yeah, you. Yes, sir. You >> You were there, but I want to but I want to see if it's going to hit different once you hear it now >> in light of what in light of what you know. So, >> um, let me let me read let me read an excerpt of the book. Okay, I'mma do that and then I'll I'll uh >> I'll I'll share with you all what has been stated and reported on why G Craig Lewis is really in quote unquote ministry. And then the two clips with Fred that I want to share with him, get his reaction and we can, you know, we can wrap it up if y'all want to do that. That's fine. I have no problem with that. I just want, you know, make sure I put this information out because I think that that is this is very important and it speaks to his heart regarding what this man how this man sees God's people. He does not see them as a mission. He sees them as merchandise. And this is in his words and how he has communicated to the woman that he had a sexual alleged sexual relationship with. I mean, she described the house. So, I wouldn't reason see why she would be lying, but uh let me let me read the excerpt of the book and uh we we'll move forward on that. So, this is this is G. Craig's book, The Truth Behind Hip Hop, forgiving and being forgiven. For years, I blamed my womanizing and sexual addiction on on those women. When God spoke to me and told me to forgive those who had hurt me, I did not want to do it. I felt like they had did me wrong and ruined who I was. I feel like they stole my innocence and caused me to be a sex addict. It's their fault I'm addicted to sex. Quote unquote, he says, I told the Lord. Then then God showed me myself and let me see all the girls I was hurting through my sexual promiscuity. He showed me that I needed their forgiveness because I was lying and cheating on them to get what I wanted. And that made me no different from the women that violated me. We all needed We all needed his forgiveness and all I could do was cry and repent for what I was doing and forgive those who hurt me. We must never forget that we will need the grace of God and his forgiveness for our sins as well as well as to forgive others for their sins. Jesus prayed this prayer and said, "And forgive us our sins for we also forgive everyone that is indebted to us." Luke se Luke 11:4. If you're reading this book and have been hurt by anyone, especially someone in the church, the only way you can progress is to first forgive that person. I can talk about that. I believe that for forgiveness is conditioned upon confession and repentance because that's how God does us. But continue on. This is the only way you can stop the plan of Satan in your life. Satan knows that. The Bible says in Matthew 18:35, "Unless you forgive your brother, his sins against you, your heavenly father would not forgive your sins against him. So that what what the devil does is use people to offend you. In most cases, instead of us recognizing that an evil spirit is using the person, we begin to hate that person. This locks up our fellow our fellowship with God because he would not forgive us unless we forgive others. Consequently, many Christians can never move past this point. Thus, the devil's plan to stop God's purpose in your life is successful until you forgive all who have hurt you. This is why Jesus prayed as he was being crucified on the cross, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." Jesus knew that they were only being controlled by the powers of darkness. Remember, Satan can only use any non-Christian or any weak Christian to accomplish his plan in your life. Unforgiveness can many can many times birth the same sin in your heart. I run across thousands of young boys who hate their fathers because they were dead beats and did not take care of them. the very it is very difficult for a young boy to do that's it is cut off right there but that's the gist he basically said that he is a he had he's had a sexual addiction and to that point on what I was sharing in the clip before it had cut off he mentions that in the vid in the in the clip and I think I want to play that part because it cut off and I want get the gist of that I think I need the gist of that of that conversation that that Tim Mikas had with uh with Ton about J Craig Lewis and then the relationship he have with these And because Tim knew about it, he was aware. He saw it. He knew that he was put up. He had him put up in the um had had Demona put up in an apartment and paid for the apartment and our car and all that. But he he describes it here in this video here. Tim Meakans has a hard drive of G. Craig Lewis's sex videos and sex tapes. This is how I was able to ascertain copies of it because he has the copies on his on his computer. But he also made copies and put it on Will Ford's computer unbeknownst to Will Ford. >> Dude, I have I have the utmost of compassion for >> Ton. I'm telling you, one thing I never do is drag somebody's name down without hardcore evidence. M >> and what I did was I put all the evidence that I had because at that time he made me so bad that I was going to send that every hard drive that I had in my possession of DX Ministries. Anything that ever belonged to him, I ran scams on everything. >> I got every every piece of evidence, every picture, every >> That's why he didn't want nobody talking to you. That's why he was drug he dug you so hard cuz he want none of us talking to you. probably I had everything that I could possibly find. Gigs of information >> and I was going to take it to Jake and say here's your boy right here. >> Wow. >> It's only it's only the grace of God. >> That wouldn't have been good >> that I'm a child of God that I didn't because the first thing I thought about was his son and I thought about his wife and I thought about I didn't think about him. >> I thought about his family, >> right? >> I was like, dude, I would it's not even worth it. So what I did, what I was, well, of course, the computer had a bad hard drive. So I ended up putting all this information on a hard drive. I put it inside of this computer, reformatted it as a safe key. I'm glad that that computer your boy was on something back then, dude. I was I was like, "Okay, guy, here you but I ain't going to be no, you know, but you know, >> the order blah blah blah." So, dude, I go to his computer. I start typing in the in the browser and you know how when you type a letter in the browser anything that you've you got to came up you know all this point I was like what's her name >> I think the girl one of the girls that >> from California >> yeah that's the girl that that that Landon had sex with in the car a couple times in the parking lot >> Landon was hitting her and thing is >> yeah Landon was hitting her and she would come out of the house and Sa didn't going around. Craig said she was crazy. He was counseling her. I always ask C, dude, why are you counseling these little girls? Like, well, you know, the pastor D. I just understand something cuz I used to I used to if anybody challenged him privately, it was me. >> Listen, I can't I went to her house one time to hang her TV on her wall and uh she just cuz she's silly, right? Her apartment was actually bad. I don't know how she afforded the apartment, but I believe that Craig moved her down here, bought her that cheap gratty car, flooded her apartment for a while, and then kicked her or whatever. Uh, her mind's messed up. But I was saying TV and she said, um, I mean, you know, um, you know, what's up with Craig? Like, what do you mean? You know, I mean, he's, you know, he's Greg. You know, guys, well, I mean, he always used to, you know, no more private visits anymore. And he used to come over no more secret visits anymore. used to come over a lot. Now he doesn't, you know, he doesn't really come over anymore. Blah blah blah. I was like, I was just quiet, you know. I guess she read that I was quiet. Realize what she how she found it. You know, >> secret visits. Who says that? Secret visits. >> Dude, she the girl the girl had a mind of like a 15, 16 year old, you know. But uh I mean, of course, she was 27. school can't take the camera, right? But uh I I didn't know I I didn't know that, but I did I do know that uh you know, he she used to stay at night all the time in that thing. Um and and I do know he moved her down. But and you know, ain't nobody any move. He was hitting Lois. >> Yes. >> How does he stand there marry Herman Kelly? I couldn't. How do you fix your How do you do that? >> He's a professional, man. He made uh Carina a hug. >> How do you do that? >> He's He's heartless, man. I mean, the dude has problems. >> So, that's Tim Makings. That's the cousin of G. Craig Lewis. He knows the relationship that he's he's had with these women. You you you heard that. I wasn't able to put two and two together. I didn't know who these individuals were until after the fact until I started doing the investigations and and the exposing of G correct. I didn't I didn't know who, you know, Lois Burke was. I didn't know who Carme I didn't know who these individuals were until I started drilling down and starting to deal with Greg and exposing them and um to where we are to where we are today. So, um, Fred, let me let me let me go ahead and go to this this clip here and then circle it back to the two questions I'm going to ask you in light of what we've discussed um tonight. And this is going to be the the um his Greg's purposes on why he does what he does. I titled it money or ministry. >> I can't explain to people. That's what I was trying to tell my former pastor. Well, how does he slay demons? How did he uh cast demons out? I said, he explained this to me. Craig told me this. He said, "There's a army in the darkness just like there's an army in the heavenlies, >> right?" >> He said, "They're ranked. Demons are ranked." >> I said, "Yeah, yeah, I know. It's He said I'm ranked and high, you know, highly. So if I'm, you know, casting demons out cuz they're ranked lower, that's how he explains it. >> But see, you know, you know the sad thing about that is and which God is going to use to judge him. Um, Judas cast out devils. >> Yes. >> And what happened to Judas? >> So just >> So just because you cast demons out don't make you any more of God than Judas was. >> Yes. >> Cuz he was one of he was marked as one of the 12. But yet Jesus said to the to the 11, "One of you are a devil." And he was referring to Judas. And Judas had every power. He had every spiritual, you know, capability and ability to do the things that the other 11 did. But yet God said, Jesus Christ himself said that this man is of the devil. They didn't know who he was. They didn't know which one it was until after the fact. >> Yeah. So, so, so the Bible talks about that, you know, uh Jesus said, you know, not many who say to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom, but those who do do my will. Many of you will say to me, Lord, Lord, do we not cast out demons in your name? >> Demons, >> perform many works and miracles in your name. Did we not preach and teach in your name? And Jesus said, I'm going to tell you straight up plainly, I never knew you. Depart from me, you workers of iniquity. >> So, so this is nothing. So, so yes, demons are real. Yes, the spiritual realm is real. It is real cuz God says it's real. But just because a person cast out a quote unquote demon does not make them a person of God. >> Uh-uh. He told me how he did it. And when he shows those signs on the uh during his true side hip hop >> right >> deal, >> he curses or he um does uh magic >> on people. >> Mhm. >> And he commits sorceries on everybody. So when people leave Wisconsin, they feel sick. And that's how he does it. So the things that he teaches against is the very things he cast on people. >> So that's how he learns how to do it. That's how he learns how to commit witchcraft. That's how he's able to astral project. That's how he's able to to do all those things because he learns it and that's he's researching these things. >> Mhm. And did he did he share that with you? >> Yes. So he he he's a and this is what he told me. Um, and I put this in the anthology that I wrote. These are his words. I promise you. He clocks in. He says, "I clock in at 8. This is He said, "This is my job. This is my job. I do not look at this as like this work of God." He says, "This is my job. I clock in at 8 and I clock out at 5. >> My office hours are from 9 to 5." is work. >> Your floor, Fred, you got the floor, sir. Golly. Wow. You got the floor, sir. Um, if she's if she's 10 toes down standing on that, that's another level of accusation. That's >> I mean, there was so much there. Um, >> yeah, >> you know, to to you know, anybody that's that's doing God's work should be marked by the kingdom of darkness as a threat. >> Right. Right. Um, but h but I'm I'm really trying to piece um how to uh how to hear the the portion where where she said that he said uh he's ranked among them, >> right? You know, I mean, is that a is that a, you know, Paul I know, Jesus I know type of thing, or or is that a, you know, you're just saying because of the work that you do for the kingdom of God, you've been marked by the kingdom of darkness. But it's it's the it's the other >> remember he said in the interview with the the clip that I played earlier where he cast out these 42 demons. One of the the demons the the 42nd demon supposedly said, "No, not him. He puts himself that level to where >> even I mean the demons don't come out until like like Kevin said he plays his music don't come out the name of Jesus. It comes out when he when he when he's accompanied by Craig's music. >> So he put some stuff out but >> demon you know slayers or whatever. I don't know. >> Yeah. But but but the worst that was said and there were three things specifically said. She said magic. >> Yep. >> Sorcery and astral project. >> Now explain that. Now that >> for those who who may not be aware, explain that please. In in in layman's terms, bring the cookies down so you can get a bite. Go ahead. >> Well, I think we probably have an people probably have an understanding of magic and sorcery, but astral projection. >> Come on. >> That's when you travel. That's when you travel. That's when you your >> Yeah. Your spirit leaves your body >> on a core you to exactly right. because it's talked about in Ecclesiastes 12:3 uh before the silver cord is loose. That's referring to astral projection. And so if if God does it, that's one thing cuz he's got all power, >> right? >> But if I do it, if if if I if I learn that >> now I'm now I'm I'm I'm violating spiritual laws. I'm I'm going into like I'm going to liken it to this cuz you know you know I'm a nerd so I got to I got to get one superhero reference in. >> Yeah. >> But but in in Doctor Strange's Multiverse of Madness. Now this is a fictional movie but I'm going to tell you why I'm using this in this context. In this movie when Doctor Strange he basically he necroocks, >> right? He possesses the a dead version of himself from another universe and communicates through that body. And even in that movie, the demons were like, you know, you ain't supposed to do this. >> Wow. >> In the movie. Now, now bring it from that that that context of fiction into reality. Astral projection. That's that's that's another level of of of demonic. >> Yeah. Sorcery. >> Yeah. I mean, it's sorcery, bro. But it's it's it's like expert. It's like expert. It's like expert sorcery. So, >> if if what she's saying is is 100, then that takes every accusation to another level. >> And he need he needs to sit he needs to sit down. He needs to sit down yesterday. >> Okay. So, so let me just say it. >> Okay. >> Did you know did you know that you were sitting next to a a sorcerer or a a a warlock or a bro >> the whole time masquerading as an angel of light. Which is why which is why I want to I want to I want to I want to pivot right now. Hold your thought. I want to pivot right now with this. In light of what you just heard. Okay. And in in light of what you just heard this man uh this man say, I I I have to I have to ask this question. How how do you how do you respond knowing now what you know and hearing this now here? >> So I had two examples of men who boldly went where no man had gone before as it related to Bible teaching. who cared more about lives, people's lives than people's feelings. >> Come on, man. >> Because they wanted them to have the truth. And that's my dad and Pastor G. Craig. They're probably the two voices that really inspired me to to to not be afraid about revealing the truth that the spirit of God has clearly shown me >> in the word of God. And and so for me again, I mean, I'm looking at two men who truly trust in the Lord with all their heart and lean not to their own understanding. I want to say this and then and I'll be quiet. >> Yeah. about about this guy Vanguard and he he not he's not interested in any of these titles any any of these adjectives or descriptive terms but like I said in the last podcast we need to call a spade a spade and this man is literally responsible for the watchman ministries like the watchman movement that we see in the body of Christ today when people started to expose everything. >> Yes. >> When people started to look at the symbols and the icons behind the music and behind the movies and have their little YouTube videos or their social media, that's that's because of this man right here. >> God used him. And I and I and I think one of the reasons that his ministry has been so effective is because there really weren't any black men doing it. >> He I would I would Will you correct me if I'm wrong? I don't know anybody that was doing it before him. He's probably the first and and he and he birthed a whole Now some of them are a little loony. Some of the ones that have followed, they're a little >> I mean, they're a little like over the top. They really again, they don't have the balance. We were talking about that back there. Like they don't have the balance. >> He understands the balance. >> Yes. >> And again, >> I mean, I don't even Do y'all remember vigilant uh uh vigilant citizen? And this dude, we don't know where he is right now, but this dude called himself a mystic Christian. I mean, he did. >> People were so caught up in his breakdowns, but I believe he was watching Pastor G. Greg Lewis. >> I talked to him. He was >> Okay. Well, there it is. See, now we have the evidence. So, I just I just wanted to highlight the fact that >> no one would have ever known how much was behind the message, the truth behind hip-hop. Off the title, you're thinking, "This is only going to be about music. This is only going to be about rap." and where the spirit of God took him. Over 15 uh uh uh uh te teachings on that subject alone. Let's not even talk about the error of man and and and other um um complimentary teachings, but just where the places that he went with this subject matter. I I just believe God used him at a very unique time in the history of the church. And I think I believe that's why the message is still standing. That's why he's still he's still relevant. And that's why people like me, people like you, like we're still we still want to know what Pastor G to say about that. >> Yes. >> What's what's what are his thoughts? >> What are your thoughts, Fred, in light of what you know now, bro? In light of what you've seen, in light of what you heard. Um I mean, you mentioned about your dad. No, and how >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, >> yeah. Go ahead. >> Yeah. Know I I hear you. It's crazy that right now that seems like a lifetime ago. >> Yeah. >> Just because of what has transpired and what I've learned in let's let's just go with the month of August. Just the month of August. >> Right. Right. >> Um yeah, you know, saying that that then, you know, I mean, I would I would I would stand on it then when I said that because I was in June and going back to when I started in ministry and I started like dealing with heavier subject matter. I mean, yeah, I mean, I was looking at him as somebody that had gone before me teaching that that that that in that manner and and and and teaching on those kinds of subjects. But >> yeah, it here and that hits differently now because of >> Yeah. >> what I've now been exposed to. >> Yeah. >> And and it's been a quick exposing, you know, it's it's it's it's it's I've been hit with so much and like I said, it's probably just scratching the surface. Yeah. >> Like only only a small percentage of what else there is. But yeah, it it it hits differently now. And if that if that that last audio that you just played, bro, like that that would that would take everything that I just said in that clip. It would explain some things, but it would take everything that I said in that clip and I mean I I' I withdraw, >> man. >> Like that's that's like I I >> Yeah, man. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I know it's hard, bro. I mean, that's why, you know, I was I I didn't want to dump a lot on you, but it was I said, you know, it's out here. >> What? I didn't. I mean, >> YOU BACKED UP A DUMP TRUCK, >> MAN. You built you built a compound for everybody to have some Kool-Aid and and go off into the sunset, >> man. Look, Psycho. >> Yeah. What's up? >> Yeah, let me let me >> go ahead. >> So, you know, with that one, you know, it don't even matter, bro. >> No, go ahead, man. >> I'm sp No, I'm spent. Like I don't even I don't I don't even think what >> what I mean what is there anything else you want to say? I mean cuz he he's lied on you publicly. That's one thing. He's lied on other believers. I mean that's been always a pattern of his. Now you're hearing this. Can you honestly say that this man is a brother in Christ? I mean, this has been a pattern of abuse and sexual and and witchcraft and and and sorcery and and like you said, I mean, you you you're now dealing with the occult stuff. Oh, by the way, by the way, he dabbles in new age as well, too. He says God is a frequency. >> Well, >> Seo, can I can I ask this question? So, and just just to kind of ask this to pastor Price. So, given the the the information that has been presented and in addition to that information, your personal conversations with do you feel as if you can approach Craig Lewis and and actually have a conversation with him concerning these things? And I asked that because I know that there's been attempts by other ministers um the brothers here and pos and others that are outside of this with the information that you have and present it to G. Craig Lewis and say, "Hey, what do you what do you have to say about this?" Because I think from what we've heard, everybody here has tried. Maybe you're the person that has his ear that could potentially have the conversation. I don't know if you even want to. I'm just asking it from the standpoint of is it is he even in your mind or an opinion approachable to have this discussion because >> yeah, there's a lot going on. I would I would I would be down and I would want to I would just wonder will it go back to 2019 >> and the beginning of 2020 where I I I went to him and said this is what this is what's being said about you. This is what you're being accused of. um and then even offering to be the liaison and the mediator of a conversation between him and and Teton or between him and and Seiko and he wasn't interested in it. So if I went to him about this now I I just wonder would it be I would do it but would it be a waste of time? >> Yeah, >> a waste of time. >> Definitely a waste of time. Matter of fact, I know he already knows about >> you're dealing you're dealing with something that is beyond our understanding or limited to our understanding. This is powers princip. This is spiritual warfare. And the only thing that would potentially happen is that you know we just have to pray that the Lord has mercy on his soul. Because when I listen to this stuff for the first time, some of these things, this he has projected his own he's been crying out through all of his sermons. And what he's been doing is projecting his own suffering and challenges. He's he's been projecting it out. He's called us witches. He's he's called that he became and everything that he pursued to demonstrate to the body of Christ is what he is. Now you think about what I mentioned earlier. Every level is being exposed from the top. Our government systems, our political systems, our church, our religious infrastructures, even in our communities. And so when you think about this, man, what what do you say? I mean, how do you talk about, >> you know, I'm I'm it. How do you do that? Should it be even us? >> Yeah. >> You know, because he's taken something and he's Wow. Oh, he's just basically took something that was and he flipped it and it got everybody messed. Now you understand why the stronghold is so strong upon these people there. They get they they're in bondage. My prayer is that they be set free because this is the behavior of one set repbate mind. >> Yeah. >> How can you preach about righteousness? How can you judge the believer with the word of God? How can you judge these things? This is what the diddies and the epistines and this is the kind of stuff that's happening in the church. >> Yeah. >> The same stuff that's happening in the world. So this is the wicked that the Bible speaks about. >> Yeah. >> The sons ofKeva.Keva. >> All of the stories that we read about. So I don't know, brother. I all I can my goodness, you know, >> I want to make sure that I I I'm found righteous. >> Yeah. You know because >> so then so then my question the next question is since you said that >> since you said that Ton the next question if it's not then then who I mean does it have to become a situation where now we're talking about get your hand out of my pocket like it we shouldn't be getting to that level right somebody has to try to talk to this guy >> but I think they have we don't have the authority >> I get it I get what you're saying okay but there you have something someone because I don't want to get that phone call >> or I don't want to get that text message >> hearing about something, >> right? >> You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah. Yeah. Let me let me do this. Uh th this this video is is with Ton and Ladonna. She talks about how G Craig said that he appeared to her. He astro projected into her dream. This is what he actually said. So, let me let me let me go ahead and play that one for you, Fred. And um let me go ahead and move my screen around here. Go here and then go here. dream one night after an encounter that he and I shared a meeting and um I told him about it the next day and um I texted him about it and he began to recount it and he said, "Oh wow, he is, you know, I I I drink the same thing." and he began to laugh and he be to talk more in detail about it. It's all Yeah. So at this point this has become very difficult for you but you got you it was it was a place of comfort because he became those things that you need and we're talking about here I'm here with LDonna Jackson those who are just logging in and um she has been very bold and very gracious to reach out and want to talk about her story um of healing. But in this portion of our interview and our conversation rather, uh there are some things that we have to talk about to get to where we are and to put things in context. Um she was involved with uh G Craig Lewis initially. She was brought in to support and help the ministry and at some point it one thing led to another and she was unfortunately involved in a in a relationship um that lasted how long? It lasted a year. One year. >> Yeah. So, at what point did you want to get out? Why did what at what point was it time to leave and to move on? >> February 2011 when I was hospitalized. >> Wow. Let's talk about that. >> Attempted suicide. >> Wow. >> Wow. Yeah. >> And um I will say that that was not my first time being hospitalized for that purpose. Yeah. But no. Um because I have a diagnosis of bipolar >> uh >> disorder. Okay. >> As a result as a result of this experience. >> As a result of this experience. No. No. I was born >> Okay. I'mma stop there. I'm G stop there. All right. So, y'all heard that part. Um, >> yeah. Hey, Seiko. At uh 3517, that's when she mentions it during her interview with uh with uh Teton because he talks about dreams. And then she says, "You talking about astrop projecting." >> Okay. >> Go to Let me Let me go back a little bit. Okay. >> Yes. Go to 3512 and see how it unfolds. >> All right. Give me a second here. My >> goodness me. One more time. My goodness. All right. This here, you know, he used various tactics like I remember you mentioned about a dream that you had, right? >> And can you talk about that experience and how that even drew you closer? >> Okay. You're talking about astral projection? >> Well, we could talk about that. Let's talk about that. I remember mentioned it was more or less you shar you shared about the idea that >> it was almost as if he was re regurgitating your dream that you had and you were uncomfortable sharing sharing about that dream. >> Yeah. Um uh well looking back it was probably just uh we had become really close but um yes I begin to thank you Ariel. I begin to dream one night after an encounter that he and I shared a meeting and um >> Okay. So, she mentioned it earlier there. All right. All right. So, um, >> do you do you understand the ramifications and and violations of sex magic? >> Yeah. I mean, >> and and >> it's it's it's more than just one being one flesh. I mean, it's it's it's it's deep. >> Yeah. But I mean, when when when you're talking about >> for Yeah. When you when you're talking about like magic is magic is bad enough, illicit sex is bad enough, >> right? >> Right. Uh uh magic is bad enough and abuse of power is bad enough. >> Yeah. >> Magic is bad enough and manipulation is bad enough. All of these are bad enough separately. >> Yeah. >> When you combine them, >> Wow. >> you you are violating you you're you're violating spiritual laws. I mean, some of these are laws that that, you know, I don't want to get too deep off in my angels. >> Yeah. >> You know, uh, stuff, but violating stuff that that men weren't even supposed to know, like secrets that were supposed to remain in the vault of heaven and and and and and was revealed to men by by angels and authorized for you to operate in any of that. I mean, this is this is why so many sexual rights and rituals were were attached to idolatry and the worship of false gods. >> These are like big-time violations. And there is it is impossible. I'm going to say impossible. The spirit of God cannot be on the inside of you and you do any of that. >> You need to say it to Craig, bro. >> Exactly. >> That's impossible. You you you cannot the Holy You The Holy Spirit cannot dwell on the inside of you and and you engage in sex magic or astral projection like it's not it's not possible. >> Yeah. >> It's highly it's highly not possible >> because what I'm what I'm observing and as I'm listening man I'm man this is crazy. So what what what has happened and Fred y'all can help me on this process this. It's almost like a slight of hand. If you go back and listen to the DVDs now, you're going to hear them differently. When you go back and listen to the sermons, you're going to hear them differently. >> Yeah. >> So, man, listen, man. This is uh man, this is terrible, but it's necessary. >> Yeah. Um >> well so can I say this real quick? Yeah. >> I'm sorry. Seo and I want to touch on a little bit of this and I want to get uh Pastor Price your opinion on this. So >> I know in some of the previous projects that we had to do we had to do some research on some of the content that Drew Klo put out and a lot of it was attri is attributed to pseudapigraul uh writings or falsely attributed writings. Now, I'm not I'm not to debate that, but one of the things that I noticed is a recoccurring theme in a lot of the the the content that was produced was this this idea of duality. And how it was presented was that there would be uh whether it was Solomon, whether it was other uh prominent figures throughout scripture or even just in in lore that they had this portrayed themselves as one way in the public, but in secret they were doing other things. And so and then in then the conversation about a believer being able to carry a demon. And these are things that were mentioned throughout various DVDs. These are very significant and profound statements that would cause some to question whether these things are true. So, but I hear those things and then I see and then I hear these things being mentioned in testimony and conversation and then I'm wondering the duality conversation comes to mind. Now, we say that these things are impossible for hap to happen to the believer, right? But then we hear about these things being, you know, alleged. And then I hear about this conversation of, you know, and the latest conversation was Solomon and the duality of Solomon, him being able to be a mouthpiece for God, the wisdom of God and and and executed on all types of wisdom. And then I also hear about him, you know, the the you know, we know, of course, the the lesser keys of Solomon, all of those those books that were alleged of Solomon. uh to be written. But a lot of these books spoke of him being a master magician or master war sorcerer, but it speaks but it was mentioned in out of the mouth of G. Craig Lewis is if these things are factual. And so I I asked the question because I kind of want to know what your thoughts are on this because it's it's almost like this idea of of duality is being pitched as this is almost a truth that a believer can be both possessed and blessed of God. And and it's a qu it's a quandry be. And here's why I say this. I had a conversation this past week with a brother and he was had a he mentioned to me about a situation where he was talking to heard a message with Lewis and saying that you know a a Christian can be possessed and and um the salvation questions came up because you can have salvation and then lose your salvation uh at any moment and he began to question his faith. He began to question whether or not he was even a believer. Um and this was a this was troubling to him. He mentioned that they had psychological effects on them. And so these things are coming up in question or conversations with believers all the time throughout the years. We've had these conversations in these questions. And some of this, you know, I'm not even qualified to answer, but I'm I'm asking this because these are real issues that people have concerning the teachings of G. Craig Lewis and this idea of duality, false gods, of the demon possession and then being a believer and and these are very complex issues. I get it. But these are the questions that people are asking and that's what these teachings are leading people to go to the conclusions like am I even saved? Can do I have a demon? Am I a Christian? These are the questions that are being asked. And so I ask you that what what are your thoughts on some of these things? >> Uh Ton, you want to go first? >> Oh man. Oh man. You know, I remember I I think that was the story you shared with me today. Correct. >> Billy. >> Me? Yes, sir. >> Oh, no. Billy. >> Okay. So, do you recall the statement that was made by that gentleman when that gentleman asked the pastor uh about who Jesus is to him? And the pastor Craig could not answer the question. You remember that? >> Wow. >> Yep. >> Wow. >> Yep. >> You couldn't answer the question. So, >> yeah. Uh >> I'm going somewhere. This is why I wanted to bring that back into Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. man. >> No, go ahead, Billy. Go ahead and give give more context so I can go into what my my perspective on it. >> Yeah. So, so I had a conversation with this brother, we're discussing, he mentions that there was a situation that happened and um Lewis was trying to minister to him about some of the issues that he was having and had some questions. Uh to make a long story short, the question was asked to him, did he know who Jesus was? the the the brother was asked by G Craig and then the brother turned around and asked G Craig the same question who is Jesus like who is Jesus like to you and he mentioned that Greg struggled to respond to that. >> Wow. Now I wasn't there but these are these are the words of this brother and the testimony that he gave to me and without going into more detail that that that was very a pondering question you know cuz it's like you hear this and you see these videos and you hear all of the conversations and it's like wow what what do you say to that how >> remember the scripture bill that you saw. I didn't mean to cut you off. Remember the scripture we talked about? Um, remember he was one of his favorite scriptures >> and you always wonder >> why he would quote that scripture. Let's go to that scripture. >> Uh, so you're talking about Psalm uh Psalm I believe 12. >> Let me go 12 something. >> No. Um, I think it's Psalm 12. >> Yeah. The wicked sort about freely while the olive men are exalted. That's or the wicked walk around on every side while the olive men are exalted. Um and that's Psalm 12 verse8. >> Okay, remember you asked that question. Why is that his favorite scripture? Why would that be a pastor's favorite scripture? So, are we hearing the spirit that's operating within the person? cuz I recall um Tim sharing um there were times they had to go get him because he said he was being attacked by witches >> and they had to go pray for him. Will Ford and many others. And so I just believe that John let me let me let me look here. John 3 and21 says, "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light that his deeds may be made manifest that they are wrote in God." They they are with God. That King James something else ain't it. So when you think about the counterfeit of that light, he shows up as an angel of light. He gives us all this industry insight. And now you begin to wonder how all of this information at this opportune time is is intersecting or either is it's aligning with what's happening in our music and entertainment industry. So it's almost like he was a self-proclaimed prophet. So either he's been either he's been consulting and because what's interesting is this and I'm and I wanted to talk later on offline because what I've experienced over some time when I think about all these events and how everybody was in some level of spell if you look at that video at that podcast Fred and others look at the audience continents look at Craig's continents when Fred was talking. And so what I just think that we're dealing with is a highlevel sorcery. And I just think this is the time not only to pray for the the body, but we need to understand that this is the reason why it's been so difficult to address and deal with. How is he to know all these things? He tells the members of the church, the Lord told me, showed me. But I'm beginning to ask you what Lord showed you and told you. >> So that's just the way I see it. Because when we would do the research and and I'd be like, "Hey, man, I don't" and he would force stuff in there, but the information is so compound and so compact, it's it seems conspiracy and it's so overwhelming. He can't even preach the gospel. He he the the message he had before, what is it called? The uh impostor. What What was it? What was it? >> The most recent message he was preaching, he was preaching about himself. Yeah. >> Go back and listen to the messages. He's preaching about himself. It's almost like he's in bondage. >> Yeah. >> Now, I don't know if this is a reach >> or am I, you know, but I I'm just processing this real time and it's like, man. >> Yeah. >> And so, it just causes me to to look hard at my own self. >> Yeah. And I hope it does the same for everybody else because we deception is is rampant, man. There's some things I got to put down. There's some mindsets I got to change. I got to challenge these thoughts and imaginations that exalt itself against the knowledge of the most high God. >> Yeah. because he's operating in a in a way that may appear that this is this great wonder but if the people are being deceived this easy then you tell me how the elect those who celebrate this man you know I used to watch him he would preach and carry on and we'll get done and he become this mean person and I couldn't wrap my head around these are the people that why do you and I would ask questions but he became or he became what he hated, what he preached against. And I just think that >> not only should we be praying and and and interceding for the church, but for the region because I believe this is a part of that Leviathan spirit. And I'll mute uh Billy. >> Oh, no. Go ahead, Kevin. >> Well, I I was just gonna share a quick story. Um, Pastor Price, I don't know if you know about this, but my wife was very close to Sabbatha. And if you want to understand the the minations of G Craig Lewis's house, you you go through his wife. And so his wife, I think part of her therapy was to just share things open and honestly with people that she really cared for and liked. That was my wife. And so one of the uh situations that my my wife would often go back to Sebath and ask questions. For example, when um G. Craig Lewis had uh there was a baptism for the church >> and um he had his deacons and elders baptizing people. Well, G. Craig Lewis did not get in the water. And um and so my wife went to Sebath and said, "Why why didn't you know why didn't G. Craig baptize anybody?" And Sebath said, "Oh, you know, Greg didn't want to baptize nobody because everybody would want to be baptized by him." But if you go and look at his uh online teaching on baptism, he believes that demons drown in the water. >> And so he believes that if you get in the water and you have a demon, then the demon may either leave you or you may drown the demon. That's just that's a footnote. >> Another thing my wife gave note of was that there was one elder, I believe Elder Ted, one of his in-laws is his mother-in-law or father-in-law, we don't know, uh had passed away. And so my my wife had been one of the few people from the church to go to the funeral. The ba were there as well. Um during the time it was time for the preacher to get up and start preaching, G. Craig Lewis jumped out of his seat as if he sat on attack and scured out of there. It was so noticeable. My wife took notice of it and said, "Where in the world is he going?" Because my wife couldn't understand, you know, there are certain there are certain protocols you follow in the church. One of them is, look, certain times you don't get up. And when the preachers get ready to give up and give the word and give the gospel as you would think it would come, G. Craig Lewis did something very unusual. He jumped up and got out of there. And my wife was like, I know he ain't have nowhere to go because both of them drove in separate cars. So, she never understood that. Um, another one is just um uh I've got I've got my notes here. Baptism and I was talking about the Bible, but I don't know what my notes says about the Bible. I guess it'll come to me a little later. I think part of the the part of this exercise we're having today, gentlemen, Oh, that's right. My wife's just yelling at me. She said Craig, she said she said uh something about uh the Bible and this that the other. And she said, "Girl, Craig don't even read his Bible." >> Yeah. >> That's what she said about her own husband. And so I was able and and this is part of the reason, gentlemen, when when I speak very confidently about where I've assessed Craig Lewis, it's not because I make things up. I have an inside look on some of the things that's been going on. And my wife and I, we've been having this conversation for years. assessing things and trying to figure things out. And so you gentlemen are just picking up pieces that we were we had been discussing for years regarding G. Craig Lewis. >> Yeah. >> But um there there are things that just kind of happened and I start saying to myself, wait a minute, this is not he's a bad pastor. He needs to sit down. I'm like, this is satanic. >> Yeah. >> This is this is demonic. Wait a minute. He's tricking people. >> Yeah. that that's where I'm at with the gentleman. >> Yeah, >> I'll mute. >> And based on his response when it first came out, that's that was telling. >> Two clips left and I I'm done. I have two clips left. I'm done. Fred, what you got? What you got, Fred? >> Uh, I just wanted to know if Billy, you know, he me he was asking Teton and I >> were you asking about those two issues you brought up, Billy, or just more about the duality? >> Well, both. I think both deserve equal conversation cuz the and I know we've got those clips. We can table it until the clips are played and then we can touch on it or what do you think go with that? Is that a risk? >> Talking about which clips you have? Which one? Which one? >> No, I'm talking about what you have. >> Oh. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I mean I can it's up to you guys. I mean, um, it's it's it's two on Craig and, um, and I can let you guys, uh, respond to it, then you all can discuss the, uh, the conversation you just ra or the question you had raised with with, uh, with Fred. >> It goes, >> I don't know if it goes with the clips. >> Uh, I'm not sure. No, I don't I don't believe it does. This one, this one is basically just with with Craig, the hypocrisy of him being a seasoned pastor and then also him ranting about um, you know, what he is. I mean, not not the not the looney rant. That that's on my playlist. That's like 30 minutes. I ain't talking about that one. But this is this something else I was uh that I I wanted to share with you guys and then get your thoughts about that. >> Okay, let's do it. >> Having a Berean spirit and having a pessimistic spirit are two different things. Folks took, you know, Paul and Silas and Timothy going to preach to the Bereans. Thessalonians were entitled like an entitled group that just felt some kind of way. They weren't really into what Paul was saying originally. That's why Paul's letter is written the way it is basically. And so when Paul went to Berea to preach these people, the Bible said they were more noble than the Thessalonians. So they they were actually in a better position to hear the truth and receive it. They heard the truth and received it and then they went and got into the word. This is what the Bible says. They went and got into the word. People try to flip this and make it like the Bereans didn't believe Paul and went and checked the scriptures for themselves to prove Paul was right. That's not what they did because what Paul was saying was in the scripture, not all of it. They went and checked the Old Testament and begin to study the scripture, the Bible said to make sure things were so. Meaning that this gospel is real, not checking to see if Paul was right or wrong. Y'all understand what I'm saying? So they they weren't looking for a way out. They were looking for enhancement in. So when people say Berean, that means, "Oh, brother, wait, let me go check it out first." No, it doesn't. That's not what that means. That means that when you read the word, you are actually taking a step closer to God to understand the word. That way when somebody comes and preaches to you, it'll agree with what you know. Does that make sense? IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT. IT'S NOT THIS pessimistic spirit of somebody sitting around checking folks out to see if they're right. So you going to berea.com to make sure a preacher is not a FALSE PROPHET. THAT'S NOT NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT THE Bereans did. They received the truth of the word, but they did get into the word for themselves. I expect y'all to receive the word I'm preaching and get into the word for yourselves. Y'all got that? Okay. Okay. Cuz I know they just went against years and years of teaching cuz folks say, "Oh, he's a Berean." That means he's in the word checking, making sure everything is right. No, you get in the word to make sure the word helps you. We should all be able to receive the word from trusted sources and not have a contrary disposition. The Bereans weren't contrary to Paul. They were with Paul. 1 Corinthians 13:11, "When I was a child, I did what? >> I spake as a child. I understood as a child. I thought as a child. But when I became a man, I did what? I grew up. So my understanding as a child was one way. As I grew up, got older, I mature. That's why G. Craig Lewis of EX Ministries and the pastor of ABC, brother, I got age limits. You a certain age, you can't tell me nothing. I ain't I don't I Brother, if I'm coming to you with something, DON'T SAY NOTHING cuz nothing you say matters. IF YOU'RE A CHILD AND you're speaking as a child and thinking as a child, I'm a man. I put those things away. So, I don't need your advice, young buck. Amen. And you going to respect every year that I've spent before the Lord. Every tear I've shed, EVERY DROP OF BLOOD THAT HAS HIT THE GROUND. You going to respect it or we don't have nothing to talk about. I'm seasoned in the faith. I'm not a novice. That's why folk don't need to pastor as a novice. That's why the Bible said a novice shouldn't pastor. They going to lead everybody into condemnation and lead themselves into hell. That's what's wrong with these churches now. PASTORS DON'T KNOW NOTHING PLAYING GOLF WHEN they need to be studying the word. How you going to teach the Bible and not teach a standard? WE CAN ALL LIVE AND do whatever we want to do. What you preaching the Bible for? Let's just come in here and let the homosexuals just rip the stage up. If that's if that's WHAT THIS IS ABOUT, YOU'RE NOT TEACHING RIGHTEOUS and holy living. Then what are we doing? Anybody not preaching the word and just preaching a bunch of emotion and just going to church for the sake of church so they can dress up. Brother, you're a novice. I don't care how long you've been doing it. You're still a novice. You haven't gotten into the word. IF YOU GOT INTO THE WORD, YOU PREACH the standard of the word. We going to preach a standard in here. If we believe she worshiping the devil, what are you doing in the devil worship? But you know, when I was a child, I spake as a child. So child, children going to do dumb stuff. So if you young, you going to do something dumb. Okay, I'm going to check you and I want to hear nothing you got to say. novice. The way I know you a novice is because of what you did. This is why teachers of the word should be what? Seasoned. >> They they hit our page, our ex ministries pages. I don't have a personal Facebook. So they hit our ex ministries page up and they'll say, "Where's your church? I want to come." So you know what I'm going to do? I go to their page, start looking around. >> No, but I mean serious. I just look around and I'll ask them. I said, "Um, why do you want TO COME TO OUR CHURCH AND YOU GOT, YOU KNOW, LIL WAYNE ALL OVER your page?" Now, if they say I, you know, oh, that's old or I'm trying to get out of THAT ORDER. OH, OKAY THEN. THEN WE ON TO SOMETHING. YOU JUDGE. WELL, THEN YOU AIN'T YOU AIN'T GETTING AN ADDRESS. YOU AIN'T GETTING AN ADDRESS. YOU AIN'T GETTING AN ADDRESS. >> You know what I'm saying? AIN'T NO NEED. I CAN ALREADY KNOW YOU AIN'T GOING TO LIKE IT. >> YEAH. THEY THEY DO THAT STUFF. SO, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT TO RE-EVALUATE. Does anybody church operate like that? >> You you I mean you you have to get before I can come to your I know that's true because Fred I remember I told you when I when I went to went to check you out because you was there you was in Dallas one year. I think that was in 20 >> 2016. >> Okay. Thank you. 2016 >> 2016 >> I I was and this is when me and Jay Bryan was cool at the time too. So I remember you was at you was in town. I think he was watching Wrestlemania. really had a Wrestlemania thing or something like that you was going to and u I said man in town said all right cool I said well how long you going to be here you see I think he's going to be leaving at Monday or whatever I said man I'm about to head back later on I said maybe I can check y'all out when you uh where you could be at uh at Craig's church all right cool so I think I can just go there I get a call cuz I told Jay Bryan I wanted to go he said all right man let me uh let me let you speak to somebody first I said okay like why I got to speak to somebody first I mean I I file it in my head I get a call they want to know you know, what is your purpose of uh wanting the address? I said, I forgot who the guy was. I said, uh because I wanted to visit the church, he said, and and who are you here to see? I said, well, okay. I said, well, Jay Brian and and I we're friends and uh he said, "Yeah, I know. I know, but I'm asking you, you know, why why are you wanting to to come visit the church?" I said, "Well, okay. Well, my I said, "My brother Fred Price Jr., he's going to be there and uh he's going to be teaching and I said I wanted to you know just uh visit him and and support him. Okay. And you just going to be here today? I said uh yeah. And I'm following all this. I'm like wait like bro no lie who who does that? I'm bro I listen I've had security clearances that a go through that much rig much rigorous uh security you know protocol than this. So when I when I heard that, I said, "Man, this this is weird." But I but I remember I remember that when he said this, my mind went back to how this whole questioning about, you know, what kind of church, well, why you want to be here and and and tell me why you want to come to church? Like, and then I even know the address. I had to get the address from the people that was at ABC cuz they don't post their stuff on online or address online. You got to get basically permission to go there. >> Well, that was back in the day. the the address is online now. >> Okay. >> But I remember those >> events that transpired. In fact, I >> uh sadly uh there was a situation, a dispute between two sisters at the church to the point to where they they had to split. There was police call. It was pretty bad. >> Um and so one of them stayed with us so they could get on their feet for a period of time. She leaves. I want to say probably maybe a year or so later, two later. Um, she's like, "Hey, I want to come to the church. I'm married and got, you know, husband want to come to the church." And before I could give her the address of the church, I had to let the leadership know that this person was trying to come and they couldn't for the life of them understand it. And for me, I felt guilty and I felt bad and I I had to repent to that sister because that was just how it went. That that was that was the system. you had to check the have the leadership uh know who was coming and the people that I mentioned in the the the rebuke earlier those were some of the spies >> that were used to in inquire of uh people's information online and ask questions or maybe not even that just spy watch. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then they would go back and tell the leadership and then that would uh provoke more more conversation or uh inquisitive eye. Even in my position and as a director at the time we were there, we would be recording and we may have a member from the security team come up and tap me and say, "Hey, uh pan camera 3 pan this way to the left." And they'll get somebody in the shot. They'll take a picture of the individual, send it on the security thread to indicate to see whether or not they does anybody know this person? They don't seem like they're receiving the message properly. Let's keep an eye on them. And so there was always this inquisitiveness and super um vigilance of, you know, just checking people to see what what was going on with them and trying to find out about them to see what they are, if they're a threat to the church and things of that nature. So this was very prevalent in the culture at ABC for very many of quite a few years. >> Wow. Oh yeah. Like I said when I when I I had that experience I was like man that >> it just didn't sit right. But I I went anyway because of my you know my friendship with uh Fred. But you know but anyway I that's it for me man. Any any any closing thoughts for you guys? Any matter of fact did you did you answer u did you were you able to get your question answered from Pastor Fred? Uh Billy. Well, so let's yeah, let's have that small conversation right now. We don't have to go too deep. It's been five hour or so hours. Uh so yeah, what are your thoughts on that? That the whole conversation around duality and then to hear the things that were spoken of and alleged. How do you marry that in and or how do you unpack all of that in in light of these conversations, pastor? >> Right. So even believers losing salvation and and what else or were those the two things? >> Well, yeah. So this I try to do the best I can to exp. So this duality thing, right? Having a a sin nature and then a a you know a god nature and and it's being introduced in a lot of the the teachings that G. Craig Lewis has brought up throughout the DVD series that he had with the truth behind hip-hop. But the but the deeper things is somebody potentially having losing their salvation. Like of course you all recall the the whole thing about the the the jab uh and that potentially causing you to eject the Holy Spirit, right? And so that that whole conversation about your salvation uh being basically in in flux based on your decision to take or not take uh the vaccination. That's a conversation and a question that was raised with people that we've spoken with. Things like that, things as if, you know, you could lose your salvation based on what you're entertaining music-wise. Um, now we understand the dangers of of music. We understand that there are are definitely agendas uh and we get all that that and that information has been brought forth um by G. Craig Lewis and others as well. But I guess the the the hard question that I that I've been asked and that over the years is the whole concept of having a a dual nature and then being a having a demon and you're a believer and these things kind of being taught as if they're, you know, they're doctrine. >> And and so that's the question >> that I have for you. What are your thoughts on that? Because these are these are hot button questions that are being asked whether it's email, phone conversations like you know you can check comments like these are things that are being raised the concerns that are being raised and the questions were asked to Greg and there was no response to some of these things online when they would when people would ask these questions and so that's my question to you like how did these how do what are your thoughts on it because there's a lot of people that have questions about Yeah. So, as far as Well, dual dual nature fleshes. >> Oh, yeah. That's a That's a >> What's that? >> That's a direction we could go into. As above, so below. Yeah. He He done >> We shouldn't even open that door. But that's that's Now you're talking rightand path, left-hand path, and and and getting into Baffomet and >> Yeah. Yeah. Um there the old man and the new man. >> Yeah. But I that's I was just about to word it differently, but what Seiko just said, I mean there is the old man and the new man. The flesh is not saved, but our spirit man is is righteous. So So there's that. Um but our righteous nature or our spirit man is on the inside of this flesh where the Holy Spirit is. So can a believer be demonpossessed? I would say no because why would a demon even want to be in the same vicinity as the Holy Spirit? I mean that's not even possible. Now I would be willing to entertain a conversation but I wouldn't preach this as doctrine. You know because the Bible says don't quench the spirit. Paul talks about that in 1 Thessalonians 5. And quench means stifle or extinguish. So you know what could that mean? And then how could how could that affect the life of a believer and and demonic oppression and obsession for sure could happen for a believer. Um possession I would generally say no. I would entertain the conversation about could a believer be possessed if the Holy Spirit was quenched. Um but my overall position is that a a believer can't be uh possessed with a demon. And then as far as losing salvation, I mean, there are a lot of different schools of thought on that, but I mean, you can't lose your salvation for getting a vaccination. You know, you can't you can't lose your salvation for for for things like that. I don't believe that believers can lose their salvation. >> You said what, T? >> He did. He did say that. >> Yeah, >> man. That's that's >> that's my point. And that's the reason why Billy is is asking these questions because And I think >> Oh, yeah. No, >> because you have not been aware of those things >> and which is understandable because you you have your own church and that's understandable. >> But I believe that that that's why this conversation although we've been in we've been at it for five hours and brother I I appreciate all you guys. I already do. But I believe that this is something that is important that that's going to be, you know, that's going to be, you know, marked in the books of what we desire to do and strive to do. And that is to try to, you know, present the truth, expose the lies, you know, call out sin and and admonish people to turn from their sin, repent, encourage those that are now, you know, uh, struggling to know what they can do and what they should do to give them, you know, answers. Not just not just focus on the spilled milk, but not only the cleanup, but know how to help others to to to walk as well. Because like like like uh like Kevin said, this stuff is I mean this this is like drinking through, you know, a fire hose, man. This is not going to be easy for a lot of people to to to take in. So we we have to be able to understand where people are in their struggle. Those that are just died in the wood like y'all have like like Billy had mentioned. Hey, we can't deal with them. This is a Jew this is a Jude 22 23 thing, man. You know, you know, have mercy on those who are doubting, right? You know, save those session them out of the fire without, you know, polluting and defiling yourself. So, this is going to be a very, you know, it ain't for everybody to do. You're going to have to, you have to know the individual and the persons that you are engaging and pray God give you wisdom on how to how to interact with them because how they respond to the truth is going to matter. >> I would gladly bring all of this to his attention. Teton has the most experience here. Is is it is it is it fruitless? That's the question. Would it be a fruitless act? >> I guess my question would be bigger than that is is is what is your relationship with him now? You know, uh uh is he is he to be marked and avoided? >> Is he is your is your relationship with him now cut separate because of the sin because of these other sins? You know what I'm saying? I mean what >> so what what is your statement to the church? Your church body of Christ whatever. Go ahead. I'm sorry. >> I would then I would reiterate what I said earlier. He He needs the opportunity to do the right thing. He needs to He needs to He needs to step down. If he doesn't step down, then all that you said, like Paul said, note those, mark those. >> Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah. >> You know, who caused division. I mean, but you you these are the accusations. This is the actual audio. This is the actual video. Yeah. >> These are the countless uh uh um acts that have been named among you. >> Yeah. >> And because you have not refuted, you have not provided proof or evidence. >> Yeah. >> That all of this because slandering is slam. The Bible talks about slandering, >> right? >> Bible talks about false accusations, right? >> So So, so it's possible that these things could happen. But again, if I'm being accused of something, you said I did this. I'm about to prove to you I didn't. >> Right. That's right. They, >> you know, when when when uh one of the R. Kelly interviews, you know, when when the tapes got out and one of the interview was like, >> I didn't do, >> he was like, yeah, watch the video, right? >> This is on the video. So, can you watch the video and prove to us that this is not you >> and he just refused to watch the video, >> right? Yeah. >> Like, bro, if I ain't on the video, I'm about >> play the video. That's not me. So, if there have been false accusations, and this is slander, again, like I said, the onus is on you to prove that everybody's lying. But if you can't do that, and then you don't respond to any accusation, he's the one who says silence is consent. So, sounds to me like >> it sounds like sounds like and smells like guilt. So either own it and write it, correct it, show remorse, show regret, show contrition, show conviction, sit down, get right, get help, get healed, get counseledled, get all of that. >> Or or mark those who cause division, >> right? >> Amen. >> It it it reeks Nebuchadnezzar. How would you sit down when that's your cash cow >> in your kingdom? Wait, >> how how that means that means all your all that DVD content? >> Yeah. >> Ton on the truth uh church perspective. If you raise your level of income to the status of a rock star, >> yeah, I remember >> then you got to keep coming up with ways to maintain that status. >> Those his words, huh? >> Those were the words that were used. >> Wow. >> And so >> Wow. Can I can I say this for a second, too? Go ahead. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> All All of this is is is, you know, it's a black eye for the body of Christ. You hate that this is even named among believers. >> Um, but there are young impressionable believers that are walking into that church every week. >> Yeah. >> And their souls are in, you know, I don't even know what what's the the state of affairs will be once they get a hold of this. But my encouragement and my hope the resources are available to you guys. Um we can make some resources available for counseling services, for prayer, for support in any way we can. Um because these are the types of conversations that are very difficult to have, but they're necessary as far as soul salvation. We pray and hope that your faith is in Christ. And if not, please reach out to any of us. We want to make that available to you. is the most important thing that Jesus said. He wants to seek out which those that are lost. >> Yeah. >> And that is that should be the heart of every believer, not just the person in the pullpit. >> Amen. >> And if until we take our ownership of our own salvation and we make our relationship with Christ personal and have a a a heart for the word of God, then these things can escape us. Not not intentionally sometimes, but they can. Amen. >> And I and I would call everyone's attention back to Jesus, our first love, who should be our first love. >> Amen. >> And again, if you if you have if that is if that is lost in sights of of this situation, I would encourage you to reach out again. We have the resources. We can try to help get people in back in alignment to the to the word uh the father. And the last time I'm gonna say this, then I I'll shut up, but we we talked about the Bible and the authority that it carries and the men that in that were inspired to write it. And there's so much wisdom that's found in it in in any way to dissuade or to keep people from it or to encourage people not to to take advantage of what it offers. All that other stuff aside because it's bad, but this is a 2026 accusa uh allegation. A 2020 No, it's it happened. He said it. You saw the slides there. There this should not be named among believers in a church. Please do not miss this. I think that's one of the more incredible and egregious things that I've seen this year and through this entire thing to take the word or try to dissuade people from having a family Bible study there. The generations of tomorrow need this Bible and it's the known fact that the illiteracy rate of our belie young believers is is the lowest that it's ever been. People are biblically illiterate. There's there's interest in God, but they're biblically illiterate. So guess what? You're hearing a podcast, you're hearing a sermon that may not necessarily be truthful, they're going to take it and accept it as truth. Yeah. >> But until you get the understanding of what the scriptures say and and fall in love with God through his word, then you could be duped. >> So the there we have to hold the line and and continue to contend for the faith and continue contend for the word because that is how you get to know the Lord. That is how your relationship with him grows. That is how you avoid a lot of these snares is by relationship and fellowship with God through his word. And you know there's there's obviously a lot of wisdom out there, a lot of wise people, a lot of information, but the word of God and his per in your personal relationship with Jesus Christ, it has to be paramount. You have to hold that in high esteem. I appreciate your time and I I'll be quiet. >> Appreciate you guys, man. Thank you. Um any any final thoughts, man, before we uh we wrap up, Brother Kevin? Um anything? I'll start wrapping it up. uh my final words. I want to thank everybody for their time and patience throughout uh this evening. Seiko, thank you for holding it down and uh and reconnecting us back so that we could uh draw some conclusions on this. Pastor Price, salute to you, sir, for just coming in and hearing the conversation and also for your willingness to go back to G. Craig Lewis and just to kind of say, hey, where we at now? >> Yeah. >> You know, what are you going to do, man? Are you going to u are you going to step down because that's the next action you need to take or are you going to step up and prove these things are wrong? Because as G. Craig Lewis has said before, silence is consent. >> So I I appreciate you uh Pastor Price uh just nailing that down in terms of an action item for G. Craig Lewis to give us the opportunity to see, watch, and wait to see what he does. So >> I appreciate that. Uh thank you so much Teton for coming back out uh of the house and sitting on the porch with us regarding these conversations. Um it it has been uh just just when you think uh it's over with. Uh had tipped to my brother Anthony who was uh handling this business. He jumped on. >> Billy D, you know how you do, man. Appreciate you, man. Thank you so much. Um very quickly um encouraging words for those who are are just struggling because again sometimes I forget about the young people who are struggling the young believer in Christ and oh my goodness uh all of them are corrupt now or nobody's true and and there's this um this firestorm of emotion that hits people because they put so much faith in a human human being and uh I just want to remind people who have already put their faith in Christ is that Christ is our true shepherd. >> Yeah. >> He is the shepherd and overseer of our souls. >> And uh when you are in Christ, you are actually in a new family literally. >> So that when you die, you will see family members you've never met before. >> Yes. >> And you will be with them for eternity. >> Amen. >> And so I I just want to comfort you with the reality of eternity. And I want to remind you that this life, it's a twinkle of an eye. >> And so I just want to I want to encourage all of us to to take uh our eternal souls seriously to be reminded that Christ is the good shepherd. John 10:11. And that he cares deeply for our souls. And it's okay that a man or a woman fail us. We've had mothers fail us. We had fathers fail us. Why wouldn't a pastor fail us? And so this is a fallen world. Welcome to the jungle. >> And so now we get up and say, "Lord, we still trust you. We still believe you. Okay, I lost that job. Lord, I still believe you. I still trust you. I'm going to get up. I'm going to keep looking for jobs. I'm going to get up. I'm going to shake myself off from these relationships." This is not the end. The truth is never the end. It's always a new beginning. >> And it's a great opportunity to reset our mind and our heart and our f focus. and our seriousness Christ these these events I better I better stay in this word I better stay prayed up some of these fighters you know these true boxers they'll say to you I don't get ready I stay ready >> right >> and that's where we need to be in the Lord we need to stay ready because this is a fallen world and Satan is the master of it >> and so we continue to walk carefully faithfully obediently consistently unapologetically serving, loving, honoring the Lord Jesus Christ. No matter what happens. >> And come on, bro. >> No matter what happens. No matter what happens. So, I just want to encourage you guys, man, take heart. If you looking for a person to fail you. Oh, yeah. They will. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. And so, oh, so that's that is your measure as to whether or not you going to serve the Lord. >> That's your measure to see if he is he's worthy. >> Come on. >> Oh, well, you wasn't there to begin with. Let's be honest on that one. >> Come on. >> You wasn't there. >> Get to the man. >> Come on, bro. Right. >> So, so this this this is the posture we need to have. Lord, I don't care what these circumstances will fall out into my face and and I don't know what life is going to be. Mom, dad, sister, brother, life, death, whatever. I trust you. I believe you. I'm going to keep moving forward. And I thank you. >> Amen. >> That's that's that's the posture, >> right? And so, and so, you know, you got to have a little grit, brothers and sisters. >> Come on. >> You got to have a little grit. But, you know, we here faint-hearted in the week. And so, we'll be praying for you. >> We love you. We thank you in the Lord for hearing us out. >> We pray that you get in this word seriously. Take these things seriously. >> This ain't no joke. >> You think this is pl you think we enjoy this? You think we wanted to sit down and have these conversations? I was concerned for brother Seiko and pastor Pastor Price that their friendship was gonna fracture over this thing, >> man. >> Cuz I've seen how G. Craig Lewis get down. >> Yeah. >> I already know. >> Yeah. >> So, this thing ain't this is no play thing >> for real, bro. >> You know, this is a grown up. You put your big boy big girl pants on. Let's get out here and get it >> and let's trust them. >> Yes. >> Trust them. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you all for for hearing me out. I'll mute my mic. God bless you all. >> I appreciate you, brother. Appreciate you, brother. Pastor Fred, final thoughts, sir. >> I don't know. I I'm not following Kevin. That's a mic drop. Um, I'll just say, uh, I had to do this. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> I had to. Um, it was right. It was the only other option. >> Yeah. So, I just want to reiterate that to all listening, whether you're for this or against this, this had to happen. I had to be here. I had to I had to be live with >> these four brothers and Anthony. >> It was, you know, was it um you know, let let God be glorified in all of this. >> Yeah. >> Um because he's worthy. And um I I just pray that that >> yeah, all will be revealed >> and and and how this gets resolved is is how it's supposed to be resolved. >> So, >> um yeah, other than that, Seiko, I just got one thing to say to you. Uh your wife, she put a comment. You probably didn't see it, but look through all the comments and look look look for something that she said. Just know in advance I'm 100% in agreement with her. >> All right. >> See the comments. >> I'mma get a text from you. So, I already know I'm going to get a text. >> I I already know she's she total agreement with total agreement with her. That's all I'm going to say. >> I bet you are. Yeah. Yeah. She She trying to get me to be charismatic like Yeah, I got it. Yeah. I'm I'm not in the fence. No, I I appreciate you guys, man. Um I love I love you brothers, man. I really do. And I and I appreciate this labor of love. I I believe we clocked in with the exception of this, you know, including including this interruption. 6 hours, man. Um almost 6 hours, I believe. Fred, you started at 6 your time. It's 8 hour time. Um um we start at 8 o'clock. What time is it now? It's about 1:45, man. Bro, >> it's 8 o'clock on next year. you listen. If you question what we do for the kingdom of God, I believe this has already been proven, man. I'm not listening to you. I'm not listening to him. I'm I'm ignoring him cuz cuz listen, I I I do know I do know that that it took it took a lot of effort and work. And I want to give a shout out to all the spouses, their wives, uh your families. This is a labor of love, Billy. You got you got little ones, man. And and and uh and shout out to your wife as well. Um I I appreciate the content creators and those who who who help put out this content, you know, Righteous Judgment channel. Please subscribe. >> Please subscribe to that channel. Please subscribe to >> support group, of course, you know, my channel as well. Support these ministries. Support these platforms that are putting out sound biblical teaching. Support people who are standing on the wall. Okay? Uh we don't have to always agree on everything. I mean my goodness that that that listen that makes the body of Christ unique. We agree on the essentials. We agree that Christ is Lord. We agree that he is the savior of the world. We agree that no one comes to the father except by him. Period. Point blank in a discussion. Anything else is a false gospel. That does not save anybody. Right? We believe that once a person is saved that God keeps him to the day of until the day of redemption. We believe that. We believe that you are in the father's hand and no one can pluck you out of his hand. We believe that. I believe in the community of of the of the saints. I believe that we are the body of Christ. We are his hands. We are his feet. We are his members. We're we're interdependent of each other. Nobody is on an island by themselves. God has never set it up that way. He's a God of relationships. And so, this is why I value friendship. This is why I value brotherhood. This is why I value the body Christ because I'm I'm part of that. And so, appreciate you, brother T. Appreciate you, Fred. Appreciate you, Billy. Appreciate you, Kevin. I love you guys, man. Um uh again, thank you for the labor of love that y'all put in this in this effort and helping us to put the information out. Now, it was up to you, the viewer. It's up to you. What are you going to do with this information now? You know, yeah, it's a good live. It's a good live. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All that all that's fine and well. At the end of the day, how are you going to carry this out? How are you going to hold each other accountable? How are you going to sound the alarm? How you going to help people walk through this maze of uncertainty and confusion that they're now having to face with the reality they've been deceived, they've been duped all this time? Help them to see that the glass is half full instead of half empty. Right? The Bible says whatever is true, what is right, what is good, what is holy, what is a good report, what is ever excellent and worthy of praise, think on those things, right? That's what we ought to think from. You can't you can't change what happened yesterday. You can't change what happened a minute ago. What we can do is grow, mature, ask for God to give us the grace and the strength to honor and glorify him. And I believe that's what we did tonight. So brothers, thank y'all, man. Appreciate y'all. >> Prayer, close, sir. Go ahead, T. What you got? >> Before you do that, before you do that, I think what we were we running any other content before we close out? >> Are we running any other content? >> Right. >> Uh I think I've already ran out of content. What What Which one you want me to run? Have I have I missed something? >> Well, it was the answer to the question to why Fred should not really engage right away. I think it was the video that you had queued up. >> Uh I thought >> Grant not demons. If demons had that kind of power, EX ministries would have been gone a long time. I checked the account the other day. I say this, I don't care what nobody checked it the other day and we had our largest EX ministry sales day in three years this past week. Three years. YOU KNOW WHY? Cuz nobody cares about demons. Are you kidding me? What I got to talk to you about? Stuff between me and my wife. You think I'm going to talk to you about that? Are you crazy? I'm a grown man. TELL ME TO COME UP HERE AND TELL. COME UP HERE AND ASK ME. I'M HERE EVERY SUNDAY. BRING IT ON, BRO. LET'S GO. I'M HERE EVERY SUNDAY. YOU KNOW WHERE I AM. EVERY SUNDAY. Why you in my business? God showed me. YOU KNOW WHY? THEY WANT TO BE HERE. THEY WANT TO BE WITH STRONG MEN that can take care of THEIR FAMILIES. THEY WANT TO BE HERE. Y'ALL SEE ME STANDING HERE? LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING. The hourglass just got turned over. Now keep watching and see what happens. This is why this is why there's no need for conversation. Judgment is already took place, gentlemen. >> The stories already been told. The dreams, the responses I've showed about money, playing around with devonations, the Leviathan, the fear. >> What? >> Yeah, >> it's time to just get these people. >> God, have a good night. >> I appreciate you guys. It's time to wake up. >> Prayer, Fred. >> Say again, bro. >> Close out in prayer, man. Close out in prayer this morning. >> For sure. >> Yes, Lord. >> For sure. >> Father. Father, we thank you and we just praise you for this. >> Yes. >> We thank you for this day. For this is the day that you have made and we will rejoice and be glad in it. And Father, we choose to rejoice in light of all that we have been exposed to and and come into contact with because you alone are God and there is none like you and you change not. And so I thank you that that we will be reminded that our faith should not be women but in the power of God. And that we are not to look unto any person, even us, the five of us, that no one is looking unto us, but rather we are all looking unto Jesus, the author of our faith. So I thank you for all that has been said and heard this evening that it did not fall on deaf ears. Uh, I thank you that we were led by the spirit of God and will continue to be led, that the unfruitful works of darkness will continue to be exposed v via the light of your word. Um, that we and others will continue to to be courageous and sound the alarm and examine ourselves. >> Yes. uh we will not just be those who observe what others are doing and and call them to judgment and and righteousness and good works but we will examine ourselves as well and we will do a thorough job of that. Father, you get again all the glory, all the honor, adoration, praise and and thanksgiving. And I thank you that your blessing is on each and every one of us and our families and all that we set out to do. Yes. >> Um those who partner with us and and and those those who um um are in support of of what we have done this evening. >> Yes. >> Father, we just again just give you I can't say it enough. We we we know that we are secure in you and that it is in you that we live and move and have our being. So, Father, have your way. >> Yes. >> Do what you want to do throughout this situation as you see fit. Uh because again you get all the glory, honor and praise in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. Amen. Thank you brothers. Thank y'all. Appreciate y'all for the love and the support, camaraderie, and helping us do what we did tonight and this morning. So y'all have a good night, man. Y'all get y'all some rest this morning and we'll definitely talk again soon. >> Appreciate y'all, man. Right. >> Salute. Salute. >> Faith over fear, baby. Faith over fear. >> Yes, sir. Fear. >> Amen, sir. Yes, sir. >> 1973. >> Amen, gentlemen. Do it again. >> No. >> X tape. >> No. >> We out. We out. No. >> Bless y'all. >> Thank you for sharing this night. God bless you. Good night. >> It's time to say goodbye for now. >> It's over. It's over. Ladies and gentlemen, >> mama, I love you. >> Pull down. >> PRAY THIS ALL good pimp for life. All lies will be exposed. That's all. And and and and anyone who takes that the wrong way, know why they take it the wrong way. The truth is the light. >> Please wake up.