Community Conversation: Virtual Power Plants

with Matt Cannon uh of the clean energy team of Sierra Club Maine. And uh today we're talking about uh home batteries and virtual power plants. So I want to get started. I'm just going to give a very very brief uh less than five minutes kind of a framework for this uh community conversation today. And after I do that, I'll introduce our speakers and and hand it over to Matt to sort of conduct the rest of the community conversation today. So, uh, let me get started by, uh, sharing my screen and, uh, showing just a few things that, uh, I think, um, frame the meeting today. All right. I think everybody can see my screen. Is that, are we okay? All right. Yeah, today we're talking about uh home batteries and virtual power plants and I I I just want to start by saying uh this is different. Uh we're going to we're getting into a different domain of uh electrical service here. Uh until until the year about uh 2000, uh our uh electrical power grids were pretty much uh what we call traditional and we would have uh large power stations. They could be uh uh coal or or uh maybe gas or uh or hydro power. Uh these large stations were feeding into the grids uh and supplying electricity to homes and businesses. Um and then about 2000 or so loosely saying uh we started adding adding renewable energy to the to the electrical grids and uh these renewable energy sources weren't necessarily as large as the traditional power plants but uh they could be set out in uh places that uh were uh conducive to to uh uh renewable energy generation. Uh another thing that came on was uh um um hydro storage pump storage we call it uh and also batteries battery uh facilities. So the the grid was getting more complicated uh but it was uh uh providing more services and uh was uh answering some demands and uh now I would say the new par paradigm is uh virtual power plants is what we're talking about today and uh just look at at the left side of this this graph here is is a home or maybe maybe a small business and uh you have electrical appliances that are drawing uh electricity from the grid. And let's say now uh we're adding backup batteries or maybe uh uh we have an EV in the garage and uh we have solar panels. So we have now have capabilities in homes to provide power to the grid and uh how might we do that for the benefit of the grid and for the benefit of homeowners. And then on the left side, I mean the right side of this uh diagram is uh what I call the virtual power plant and that encompasses all these homes and and small businesses plus the traditional power stations. And so uh um the electrical g grid is going to get more complicated and uh but I don't think that's that com complexity is any more than we have in our automobiles or uh in this uh cell phone that we all use and have get a lot of great uses out of. So I'm confident that we're going to be able to move into this era where we use these vast vastly distributed sources and it's already happening. So it's important to point out that VPPs address uh these peak power demands. So if you have a lot of uh of even small uh power sources out there together as one thing in a in a virtual power as a virtual power plant they can cut into the peak demand and and uh make unnecessary to start up gas turbine p plants for instance which are very expensive when they have to uh answer to the peak demands. So, uh here's a here's a graph that uh Rocky Mountain Institute put together and uh starting in 2010 to 2025 and uh it um they look for um filings that mention VPP uh across all the states and uh and uh it is uh growing exponentially. So these things are happening and they're happening in many many places and it's beginning to happen in Maine. And when we put this meeting together, there was not yet a program in Maine, but there is now for home batteries and incorporated them in a virtual power plan. And you'll hear more about that from our speakers. Uh I just want to mention that from the Sier Club point of view, uh home batteries, replacing generators is a big thing. Uh we see these generators all around our neighborhoods, but uh batteries are now cost competitive. Uh their storage uh amounts are getting bigger and bigger and uh face it, they they don't make any noise and and they don't uh emit any uh greenhouse gases. So these are really really positive things. Uh so let's talk today about home batteries and we brought together three three expert panelists and one from industry, one from government and one from a nonprofit and uh I think their different perspectives will give us a really great view of this and a framework where we can go forward. So um let me introduce these people and I have to bring up another thing. Okay. Um, first of all, Ethan Trim Trembley. He serves as manager of the planning and policy division for the main department of energy resources. Ethan leads the development of the state energy plan, clean energy competitive solicitations, regulatory engagement, and various energy infrastructure planning and programs. Ethan holds a bachelor's degree in economics and master of science and resource economics and policy from the University of Maine. Josh Castinguay is vice president at Green Mountain Power, which is a certified BEC Corp, serving 75% of the state of Vermont, and with 100% carbon-f free energy on an annual basis. Josh leads teams on innovation, customer care, power supply, and generation, and engineering, and all advancing solutions that help to transform the grid and drive down costs for their customers. GMP was the first utility to have a tariff battery program and it continues to grow. Josh grew up in Maine and graduated from the University of Maine in 2003 with a degree in electrical engineering technology. Shannon Anderson is the virtual power plant policy director for Solar United Neighbors. In this role, she directs Sun's policy and advocacy work to advance virtual power plants across the country, providing technical and policy recommendations to utility regulators and lawmakers to help ensure BPP program success. Prior to Sun, Shannon worked as a staff attorney and organizing director for Powder River Resource Council, a Wyoming nonprofit. Shannon works for solar works from her solar powered home office in her hometown of Sheridan, Wyoming. So, I'll turn it over to Matt to uh conduct the meeting. And uh so glad to have all all our panelists here today. >> Thank you, David, and thank you our speakers and everyone for being here today. Um yeah, we'll we'll just run down the list. We're going to hear from each of our presenters and then there'll be plenty of time for questions. And with a smaller group today, if folks uh feel comfortable, you can just use the raise hand function and speak your question into the room. The chat's available for resources and other questions. Um but with a smaller group, it would be great if folks feel comfortable just to ask questions directly. And with that, um, I also want to welcome, we have folks from efficiency main in the room and, um, they might be able to provide some more resources and answer questions about efficiency mains program in particular. Um, so thanks for being here and we'll start with Ethan. >> Thanks Matt and thanks David for the introduction and for framing the conversation so so eloquently. Um I'm really pleased to be with you all today uh to have this conversation. I'm going to talk a little bit about the state energy plan which is the overarching policy document um that helps pull together and and summarize and guide Maine's long range energy future and and help decision makers make good decisions about policy about investments business and other um programs and and things like that. Um, I'm going to stop talking for one second because I am not good at multitasking and figure out how to share my slides. I get a thumbs up if you're seeing what you're supposed to from anyone. Awesome. Thanks, Karen. Okay. Um, so I called this load flexibility in Maine's energy plan because that's the the term that we use most frequently and and I think one of the things we can chat about during today's discussion is what load flexibility is, what demand management is, what virtual power plants are. Um, if I was to draw you a ven diagram, I would draw three pretty close to overlapping circles, but the nuances do really matter. And so what I want to try to provide is just a little bit of an overview of what the state energy plan is, why we make it, let you all know that we're updating it, and talk a little bit about what that's going to look like, and then share some insights. I've put a bunch of charts on slides so I can walk you through some of the key insights from the last one that we released that I think um can help inform today's conversation. So first of all, who is the organization that I work for, the main DOE? Uh we're the cabinet level state energy department. We have responsibilities related to energy policy, planning, development. Um, you can find everything related to us at maine.govenergy. Um, and then I'll I'll just say we uh called the agency DOE. We like to spell it out even though we recognize that doer is a word and it's kind of a nice word and we're flattered when people call us that. Um, but for our own own uses we generally say D do D do D do D do D do D do D do D do D do D do DOE R. Um the agency is for those of you who've been around Maine energy policy for some time is is new. Uh Maine has had an energy office since 1973 when a lot of states created energy offices as we were going through the oil embargo and confronting over reliance on fossil fuels for the northeast imported fossil fuels in the US. that office has has been in state government in a variety of different places over the years depending on who who the governor was in the Blaine House and and kind of how they were structuring state government. Um but last year the legislature with the leadership of Governor Mills established an actual cabinet level professional and department of energy which is now DOE. So we're really proud to have this responsibility u for the state and to serve the people of Maine in this way. So, one of the key products that DOER produces is the state energy plan. Um, we are required by law to update the plan every two years. So, we don't totally rewrite the entire thing. Um, but we do make sure that, you know, kick the tires and make sure that the objectives and strategies that are included in there are up to date and serving the state as best we can. the overall objectives of the plan. Um, I don't read all of these words, but they really boil down to the the topics that come up in every conversation that we have with main people. Uh, wherever we are in the state and whatever the particular energy issue that we're there to talk about is, we're always hearing about and always prioritizing affordability, reliability, clean energy, efficiency, and innovation, including expanding career opportunities for main people in our energy system. So those are the kind of five guiding objectives for the energy plan. And then we can dive into a whole lot of detail. Um and we really like to dive into detail on on each of these. Um and so I'm going to take us specifically into load flexibility and and how that relates to beneficial electrification today. I do want to just preview for all of you. So we are in the process I said we update this plan every two years. So it gets done in the January of the oddnumbered year. So the next version is due the next update is due in January 2027. We had a kickoff webinar a few months ago um to start the public process associated with updating the energy plan. Um we issued a request for information. We got a lot of really great feedback from a variety of groups. Um you can find that on our website, the comments that were submitted um across a wide range of energy topics. So we're sifting through that feedback and we'll use that to inform the strategies that we draft and put forward later this year in a draft of the plan. We're also always looking to get out and talk to folks in Maine in whatever setting we can about the energy plan. Meetings like this are are awesome. This is my favorite part of what I get to do is to to gather with a group of interested mayors and and former mayors or people who have insights to share with mayors um and talk about these issues and hear how you're thinking about them, what your priorities are, how we can really move the ball forward again for affordable, reliable, cleaner energy for all main people. So, we have this uh form that you can fill out. Um, you can also just, you know, you all know who I am now, or you could just send me an email and say, "We'd like to meet about the energy plan or or want to talk about one of these topics." And I or one of my colleagues is always happy to to get together and have those conversations. Um, we also encourage people to share that as a resource. Um, if you're talking to others in your community or you're part of other groups that might like to have a conversation with the o, we welcome any kind of engagement like that. Um, and then all the materials as we develop the plan and start posting drafts and and presentations and things like that are all available on our website, mate.govenergyplan. So, I I won't subject you to all of the words on this slide, but just to really hone in on what those overarching objectives are, um, many of you may be familiar with the last energy plan that we published, which is the sort of current plan for the state. Um, and again, we're updating. So, we're not going to, you know, pivot and decide that suddenly affordability isn't a priority anymore. It's probably more of a priority now than it's than it's been in quite some time as we, you know, prepare for and keep a close eye on impacts uh around the world, including the straight of Hormuz, which I haven't looked at the news in a few hours, but um it's obviously something that's been a rapidly evolving situation and has real impacts for us here in Maine, where we depend more than any other state on home heating oil for our our buildings, where we depend a great deal on gasoline for our transportation system, where we depend a great on gas as well as oil for our power generation. So really across the entire energy system we're fossil fuel dependent um in a way that means that our bills are shaped in a great deal in a great part by decisions or actions that happen all around the world outside our our state. So that shapes a lot of the priorities that we're we're focused on uh as we work on the state energy plan. I want to talk a little bit now about what I'm I called here the opportunity of beneficial electrification. There's a few different kind of nuggets of information that I hope to communicate with a a series of charts that I'm going to show you. I'm going to start by saying the source for all of these is a study that we commissioned called Pathways to 2040 which was released in 2024 to inform the 2025 plan. Um we worked with a a group of experts um on this study. It was a really detailed kind of first of its kind for Maine study that involved forecasting at a really granular hourly level our energy demand. So our energy needs in other words across all sectors um from now actually from then 2024 through 2050. um and we looked at a variety of different scenarios and used the best sort of technical and economic information that we had available to us at the time to do this work. One of the things that I as a as a forecaster like to always emphasize is that forecasts are not predictions precisely about what's going to happen in the future. They depend on assumptions. they are subject to uncertainty and you work really hard on them and produce them and then pretty much the minute that you publish them something happens that makes people say is this still up to date or is this out of date right and so the trends here I think are what I want want you to focus on more than the specific numbers or the specific dates that they might occur um some key things that have happened since we released this study include the federal government passing the OBBBA legislation which changed a lot of tax credits and kind of reshaped the economics of a number of different energy uh aspects of our energy system um as well as obviously the the ongoing conflict in Iran and the straight of form situation and other policy developments as well as innovations and technology development. So some things get cheaper um just because you know they get done more or technology improves but also policy changes can have directional changes in in both directions. So big disclaimer about the charts, but I think the overall trends that I want to talk about are consistent ones um and have some real promise for for the state as we think about load flexibility and the opportunity of virtual power plants. So on the left you are looking at total primary energy consumption in Maine and that's broken down both by sector. So you can see residential, commercial, industrial and transportation as well as by energy source. So this is primary energy consumption. And so this includes the fuel that's needed that will ultimately result in in inefficiencies or losses, whether that's the heat that flows off a internal combustion engine in a car or the line losses that occur on the electric system or or other areas where energy is is not put to um useful work. But the trend that you see there is that by 2050, Maine uses about half as much energy across all sources as we do today. And I want to emphasize that that's not because we assume that Maine's population shrinks or that our economy shrinks or that we no longer stay warm in the winter or we don't go visit our relatives and friends as often. Right? In this model, Maine's economy is growing based on best available forecasts at the time. Um, all of the same energy services that we rely on and enjoy today continue to be met. So, this is not a story of scarcity and less over time. This is really a story of efficiency over time. Getting more out of the same amount or even getting more out of less. And the single biggest driver of that efficiency that we gain is the fact that over time we electrify more and more of our economy. So on the right you see electricity consumption in main by sector. The chart on the right is basically the blue sections of the chart in the middle um but blown up a little bit. So you can see that over time, particularly the residential sector and then later in transportation, we're able to electrify more and more of what today we use fossil fuels to power. And when you electrify, you become vastly more efficient because you're not relying on combustion. combustion uh you know depends on the technology and what it's doing and what the fuel source is but generally speaking you can lose half or more of the actual primary energy in combustion um to a waste use whether that's the heat that flows out of like I said off the internal combustion engine that's not useful energy that moves your car forward that is heat that is then dissipated into the atmosphere so just just an example of the key overall efficiency that we gain from electrification Efficiency is great from an engineering perspective, but it's particularly great when it translates into cost savings for consumers. So, what you see on this slide is the overall energy supply costs and then kind of a little bit of a different look, average electricity cost for Maine in real dollars, in real $22, 2022 over that study period, so through 2050. And the left chart shows you that over time Maine spends less on fossil fuels, whether it's gasoline or heating oil or propane or or what have you. Uh but more on electricity. That makes sense. Uh if you've electrified, you know, if you've purchased an EV, you're going to have a great time. You're not going to spend money at the gas pump, but your electricity bill is going to go up. Your electricity bill is probably not going to go up as much as your gas bill goes down. And so overall, there's a savings. But it is a reality that one's electricity bill does go up. One of the great things about the grid though is that it's for the most part a lot of big fixed costs, capital costs that get spread over the usage over the number of kilowatt hours. And so the average cost per kilowatt hour when we add load particularly when we add it off peak, which we'll get into a little more detail in a minute, we can lower the actual average cost of the grid because we're using it more. Um, and so that middle chart shows you that the average cost of electricity over time as we electrify actually can go down rather than up, which can be a little counterintuitive to folks until we talk through why it why it happens. And it's not a guarantee. It's something that we have to stay focused on and make sure that policy and regulatory decisions and consumer behavior are aligned to make sure that it happens. But it is what I would say a great opportunity for us and something that we try to highlight with our energy plan. The right chart shows you a little bit of a different kind of look at the same in intuition that I was just describing. Over time as you electrify, obviously spending on electricity will go up. Same thing happens in your home. If you switch from a fossil fuel furnace to a heat pump, then your electricity bill will go up because you need to pay for the electricity that you use for your pump. But your oil bill will go down and your oil bill will go down uh in virtually every case by more than your electricity bill goes up. And so you can kind of see that transition over time where we're actually able to drive down total household spending on energy from where it is today through these strategies which is tremendously exciting and something that we're really um focused on making sure can become a reality. So here's a third pile of charts. I think this is my last last group of charts and then I want to talk about one more concept before we turn to my fellow panelists who I think will have much more detail on on virtual power plants as an application to achieve these kind of outcomes that I'm talking about. Um, I won't talk too much about electric distribution capacity, but it is true that over time we will need to expand the grid to accommodate electrification. But one of the things that we're particularly excited about is that we probably don't have to expand it as much as we might if we manage our electric use a little bit more smartly. And so flexibility is the promise or of the ability to better utilize assets that we've already paid for, particularly the grid, um to get more electricity at the times when it's most available to serve the needs that it's most needed for. Um the bottom charts is an example. This is an EV charging example of how over the course of a 24-hour period, by flexibly managing charging, you can deliver the same amount of energy. In other words, make sure that people's lives are not impacted um un unnecessarily or or undesiraably by load flexibility, but make sure that you reduce the load on the grid, which is what drives the peak, which is what drives much of the investment needed for the grid. So, just one example, people talk about this pretty often. If you have an EV, uh my family had an EV for for a while. It was pretty easy to get home at the end of the day, plug it in, uh, and use a charger that didn't start charging until 9:00 p.m. Um, and by the time you get up in the morning, the the vehicle is fully charged, it's available, you're ready to drive again. Um, there are now programs available to help make this easier for consumers and make sure that it's kind of a seamless experience. Uh, we're really excited about those programs. Um, and this is just an early example of the kind of potential resource as we electrify that will become more and more available. I won't spend too long on the details of this slide, but I do want to talk about this as as a priority that we have here at DOER. And that's what we call grid utilization. And really what what we're talking about when we talk about grid utilization is how do we get the most value from the infrastructure, the electric grid, the poles and wires and transformers and substations that customers have already paid for or are already paying for. Um, there's a couple different ways that you can measure this and there's a couple different outcomes that those can tell you, but really what we're focused on here is to make sure that we understand how often equipment that's been deployed is being used and how much it's actually being used. Where is there space on the grid for more load without needing more infrastructure? Where are there opportunities to shift load or to make load more flexible in order to get more use out of the same infrastructure? We think there's a key role here for programs like those that that are run by the efficiency maiden trust um which folks can talk about today. There's a small battery program which is a really exciting new opportunity for homeowners in the state um and other demand management programs. There's also a role for electric utilities to build the grid to the size that's needed and and not more um and to configure it in such a way that individual assets that have already been deployed can get more use out of them. um and that in that way defer or delay ultimately even avoid new expenditures. All of this of course in service to affordability and making sure that we get the most out of the infrastructure that customers are already paying for. So this is an emergency emerging area. We focus on this work in rate cases in front of the public utilities commission at the policy level with our energy plan and in other domains. It's something that we're excited about and always happy to talk more about, but I've probably taken more time than I was supposed to and I'm really excited to hear from uh Josh who I just learned as a fellow you made a lot. Uh that's awesome and from Shannon and so I I will stop sharing and uh I think we're waiting for questions until everyone's spoken but Matt or David if you want to change that just just let me know. >> No, I think that's right. Um yeah, Josh, take it away. >> Sure. Thank you, Matt. Um and great tea up Ethan. Thank you. Same to you David that it kind of hits um I'll and I'll pop on a few slides here in a second that just kind of highlight um some real world experience of the program. But just going back a little bit, you know, so for us, like it was probably in the mid like 20121 13 where we really started to get into we we were deploying a lot of uh solar PV and distributed generation here in Vermont and starting to ramp that up and the idea of battery storage um was coming into the fold. Now, one thing you'll see on a table here in a second, we have and probably like a lot of utilities around the country, we've had um a demand resource that has been controlled and managed for decades, and that was water heaters. I think a lot of utilities around the country, that was one of the first distributed energy resource, thermal storage devices. Um there were different ways to do it, different incentives, but um that had been going for for for us many I think we're going on 40 years of water heater control and still a key part. Then we get into the world of um of the distributed energy and battery storage becoming uh a real opportunity and we looked at the same way David talked about it earlier which is you know there's a lot of inefficiencies and Ethan hit this a lot like a lot of inefficiencies in moving energy long distances both just from a pure kind of loss from the time you combust some kind of fuel to make electricity you lose a ton of heat you got to move that across the lines you lose a ton of heat now other losses and then um ending ultimately up at the end use. So we're we kept thinking like great you know we're deploying a lot of distributed resources it's intermittent and it has its time of day that it might produce but how do we start to keep thinking of it in a way that we're shrinking the gap shrinking the distance between where energy is produced and where it's consumed. So, you know, you need to have resource closer to where the load is. And then you need a way to manage the the load during the different times of day to be able to take advantage of that resource um and kind of shuffle things around, which has been a key underpinning of our flex load programs. So, in the early two in 2014 or so, um in our case, I had known somebody who had gone over to Tesla and they were working on their energy storage system. We stayed connected. They had their first iteration of the Power Wall come out. We said, "Hey, we'd love to deploy it and see if we can do something that combines helping customers get new way to back themselves up during a grid outage and at the same time having a device we can tap into to um to do other power quality, reduce peaks and and so on." And so that's how that came to be at that time. Um and you know going into it I would say in the early 20 you know 1516 time frame at that point we knew that storage was going to be one of the ultimate and flexible tools on the grid but you know we didn't couldn't foresee all the values but we just knew like we have a a host of values today that we're going to tap into reducing peaks for example um but there's going to be so many more as we move down the road because if we know if we're continuing to deploy um more intermittent resources you know hopefully more solar more and um you're going to want to be able to move load around. You're going to want to be able to to move those resources around electrically in a way that's going to make things more utilized, more efficient. So, we kept building on that program and um over time started to roll in the EVs and uh heat pump uh management and options there. More flex load more more recently thinking of commercial buildings essentially as big thermal storage systems. They a lot of them have building management systems with cooling and heating that you can you can flex and manage and that in turn saves that customer money and then saves the rest of our customers money. So I'll just give you a snapshot here. I have a couple slides um that just show a quick one's just quick table of of our total resources currently and then a couple real world examples of these last few months as we were using them. Let me see if this is going to work here. Okay, let me slideshow this thing. So hopefully folks are seeing a table here. Um, and what this this is just a quick snapshot of what we currently have deployed. So we have a mix of dist of distributed batteries, batteries in homes, residences around the state. Um, you know, up to roughly 5,500 customers at this point. Um, we've just recently enrolled a new battery of partner NPhphase that makes a system. We've been looking forward like the Power Wall has been an amazing battery to be clear. Um, but like anything, it's always good to diversify where you can to um have options. And so, we've been talking to all the battery partners out there and always looking at what else can we use, what can we deploy. Um, you know, some customers just prefer a different solution. And so, trying to have every option we can and also having a couple options. Um, and again, Vermont's a little different than the other New England states when it comes to utility regulation, but um, we're able to we have options where the customer can buy whatever battery storage system they want and then by sharing a certain number of kilowatts with us, we we then pay them an incentive. So, if you you know, if you give us say 3 kilowatts for 3 hours to dispatch during peaks, we give you an incentive upfront to help reduce the cost of the system. or um our program that our ESS we call it energy storage system program which is essentially a lease the customer pays a monthly fee on the bill um gets the system installed and then has it for backup and then we can tap into it for these other resources um and seeing I mean it is it's pretty awesome to see that uh the power wall program and what's our ESS program is approaching 50 megawatts when you think about these are made up of 5 kilowatt individual idual batteries are almost at 50,000 kilowatts of dispatchable resource across the system. So you know that that has grown and grids scale batteries is referring to the somewhat larger you know um two to five megawatt usually four some are twohour systems some are four systems uh in terms of how much energy they have and those are at key locations on the grid and some of those are also micro grids so they can um carry the customers in a in that specific area during um during a grid outage you know. So we we look at that any any chance we get when we're looking at some of the grids scale battery storage systems. Um also on here are some of the other programs as you scroll as you look down. So the EV rates that are mentioned those are different programs for EV charging. Um we basically in in Vermont under our renewable energy standard we have a component of that legislation that allows um incenting sort of uh helping customers get off of fossil fuel. So, in the EV space, we do a lot to get them a a smart level two charger and then help them get that installed because ultimately, you know, getting first getting the vehicle is key and then being able to manage that charging um is is huge when it comes to the future of of managing the system, avoiding the need for major transmission upgrades down the road and really leveraging that. And of course, where that goes next is the vehicle to X, vehicle to grid, vehicle to home. Um, we have been talking to probably every manufacturer that has a system, exploring, testing. Nothing has been like widely commercialized yet, but it's still a really interesting space. There's a lot of energy stored in these vehicles. Um, a lot to be tapped into there. The the FLM that's mentioned here, that's our flex load management, and that's focused on our commercial customers where they maybe they have an industrial process or heating and cooling that can be flexed around during key times. That in turn saves them money on their bill and also saves the rest of our customers money by allowing us to move things around during key times of day, which can include even adding load in the middle of the day. You know, Vermont has hit um we have enough solar distributed solar in a system that we've actually pushed the entire our entire load negative. ISO calls it positive, but basically just flip it over where we've we've canceled out our entire load for a given hour and even pushing back a little bit. our entire system load just with distributed generation. Um there may be reasons that we want to soak that up during the day, you know, and actually use the energy storage and these other resources to create load at the key times of day to then avoid other times of day. And then typically middle of the night is is also a good time where um there's more abundance of energy and you can shift that solar consumption. So doing doing a lot of that um in addition to peak shaving and providing other services into ISO New England including something called frequency regulation um helping in some ancillary markets uh all things that are aimed at you know reducing the cost of power supply for our customers um you know our ski areas like Maine has has a number of ski areas they are a big consumer during the winter time snow making is a very heavy um electric consumption and we've we worked hard with our ski areas to help them get off fossil fuel any chance we can from diesel compressors and that sort of thing. And to do that and help them still, you know, save flexing the snow making has been has been huge. Um, and we have this uh literally we have the snow making dashboard that the that the um ski areas work with. Um, and we're always kind of watching what's coming up for peaks, where are we at in the system, cold snaps, and then we can work with the skier is to help kind of uh avoid peak times with with those loads. And then lastly, there was our rate three uh water heaters that I mentioned that's been going strong for for many years. So, I'll just give a couple quick snapshots of this thing in action. Um, this is February. I'm actually going to jump to March for a second because this was uh just just this March. And just this is again this is just looking at the peak uh reduction work that we do. But um there's a whole other host of values and ways we're tapping into the storage. But one of the things here is of course how do we reduce the system peak which is what our customers then in turn pay for the bulk transmission system and and certain peaks we pay for capacity and and that sort of thing in New England. Um and here's an example in March. So what the what the red dashed lines are showing you here is what the load would have been if we had not dispatched the batteries and the other flex loads on those days. Um and so you can see there's multiple days here. That thick black line is sort of where the peak ended up being. There's multiple days where you would have had a peak had it not been for for using your resources to help squish that down. It takes a lot of prediction forecasting. Um we have a lot of automation built in now. So our our battery system is kind of watching every 15 minutes that where the peak is, where it's going, and how to how best to dispatch these resources. Then you got to we underpin all of that with watching the weather and carving out certain areas of the state if there's any kind of storm warnings and and that sort of thing. Making sure those systems are there for customers back up when they need it. Um, so this is March where there was like a number of peaks and then this one is just showing February which which had a a pretty good peak there that we're able to knock down um by a decent amount, you know, and that's that is again one of the key values that we're tapping into as we use these systems, but it's just a piece of it. We're we're doing um we're doing more and more on other value streams in the New England Territory. I don't know if folks on here, let me stop sharing for a second. Um, are aware of the ISO markets much at all, but uh this year for example, the ISO rolled out a new market called the day ahead ancillary services market. Basically, it was a market intended to help assure there's enough energy reserves in New England in the grid at any given time. Ended up being a very very expensive um market in its first year and those costs flow on to customers. So again, because we had a big storage fleet that we could tap into, that was sort of an unforeseen new cost showing up that we could at least start to mitigate a little bit um thanks to having some flexible resources. So as we always talk about it, it you know, especially the battery storage, um but all the the flexible loads are incredibly helpful. The battery storage is very very helpful because it can be a host of things at any given time depending on what you need. It can be a load when you need it to be a load or a consumer and it can be a generator and when you want to dispatch there it can it's power electronics can help you manage voltage and other power quality things at those times. So we we're excited to keep keep things rolling and most importantly it it keeps customers lights on in parts of our territory which Maine is pretty similar in terms of how heavily treated we are and with um with the storms that we see as a result of climate change and sort of what's happening it gets worse and worse and worse. Having other solutions to keep customers safe in their homes is uh pretty critical. Um and so these systems have been have been invaluable and when paired with solar of course you're now being you can ride through you know if you can have the solar recharging the storage you can keep going for for a long duration of time there. So um that's high level summary of everything you know on the battery side that that we have going on. We're continuing to deploy systems customers are continuing to sign up and um we've got a lot of partners throughout Vermont. That was one of the things too is doing it in a way that wasn't um you know GMP were helping to facilitate this work. The resource is a grid resource that's incredibly valuable to customers but also making sure that anybody who wants to participate meaning installers other partners in Vermont that do this work are able to be the ones that do that for customers um is really valuable too. It's created a lot of work for the solar companies, especially now at a time when rooftop solar is probably slowed down a little bit. Um, and you know, they're able to to tack storage back on to customers there. So, it's been a really valuable program here. We're looking forward to to continuing it on and and again, as I sit here, I guarantee in a year, two years, there'll be some new market stream, some new value we we didn't even um contemplate at the beginning that's just going to make it incredibly more valuable for customers. So, um, yeah. So, with that, I'll pause and I will kick it over to probably Shannon's next, I would say, or maybe to Matt and then Thank you, >> Shannon. Go for it. Thanks, Josh. >> Yeah. Uh, thanks Josh. That was great. Good info. Um, happy to be here, folks. Um, so I am, uh, again, uh, Shannon Anderson and I work with an organization called Solar United Neighbors. Uh so for folks not familiar with Sun uh we are a national nonprofit organization that helps um people go solar uh join together and fight for their energy rights. Um and we do that across the country through community bulk by programs um partnering with local governments and um community uh service providers uh to help um find folks uh that want to go solar and then they join together and they get essentially a bulk by discount um on the parts and materials um when they go solar together as a community. um on virtual power plants specifically um you know we've covered this a little bit but just to put a finer point on it um you know these are the numbers right nationally so we're looking at huge amounts of power that we have to get online as soon as possible uh to meet AI and data centers and everything coming on um you know the electrification uh that Ethan was talking about that's a piece of it as well um but you know just we need resources as quickly as we hand. Um, and with that, utilities are spending a lot of money on capital expenditures, and this is only going to continue to grow. Um, and then the middle piece in there is the sweet spot where virtual power plants fit in. Um, so there's also tremendous growth in distributed energy resources, um, that make up virtual power plants. And so, if we can use more of those and use them more efficiently, uh, we can help solve some of these other grid problems that we're starting to experience. Um, so we've covered this a little bit, but essentially virtual power plants, there's two pieces here. There's the virtual piece and the power plant piece. Um, and so the virtual piece is essentially that the coordination that happens between the resources. Um, that's done through advanced technology. um you know apps like the Tesla app for instance if you're a Tesla battery customer um all of that is is um you know was just talked about from Josh like automated and easy for the utility to to handle um and then the power plan itself is the resources um so these are resources at homes businesses churches um community centers around um the community that have um distributed energy resources that are able to supply energy reduce power demand and other and provide other grid services to the electrical grid. Um and the resources are used again through that smart technology um during a grid event. Um so that's a time when shifting load or adding um storage can red can reduce peak power demand um provide other grid services and save people money. Um so this kind of just gives you a diagram of it. um you know in Maine I think of you know my brother and you have a great heat pump you know program out there and uh my brother got a heat pump right and he has you know AC in the summer and um so it's you know prime candidate for kind of shifting load in certain times and having advanced technology kind of manage that home energy supply um coordinated with you know thousands of other mayors around the state um and then that coordination and that aggregation ution within a virtual power plant is where you actually get, you know, the resources that really matter for the utility. So, it's, you know, your individual action, um, aggregated and multiplied by tens of thousands. Um, and this is what it looks like in practice on the battery side of things. Um, so this is a real life example from last June um, in Massachusetts. And um you will see you know typical day right in the summer um your solar system is charging up that battery with excess power that you're not consuming at home during the daytime. Um that battery is then available on demand um during those evening hours which is typically when you have that peak power demand. Um so again kind of combined resources across this program 31 megawatt hours of low shift. um just on the single day. Um so it's it can be a tremendous resource uh when you multiply again individual action into you know tens of thousands of customers. Um and so this is sort of how it works. The players in the system uh you have your utility uh like Green Mountain Power um in Vermont that um wants the um energy from the virtual power plant. uh you have participants who have these distributed energy resources. Uh and then you have what's called an aggregator typically and these are um either battery or um smart thermostat manufacturers. Um sometimes they're thirdparty owner companies um so that lease batteries um to customers. Um, and there are folks again that have that technology that actually makes the virtual power plant virtual and able to be dispatched on demand to the utility. Uh, so thinking a little bit more about virtual power plants. Um, so again, they're available now to meet rising energy needs. Um, off-the-shelf technology, you know, these are programs that are in place around the country delivering real results. um they incentivize customers to gain energy independence and uh become more um and go through electrification as well. Um and that helps to grid the grid become more flexible, reliable and from a customer perspective resilient as well. So when the grid goes down um you're able to use the battery storage um that kind of participates in the program when the grid's working. Um so the real life you know benefits for folks um you can reduce your electric bill uh through bill credits and financial incentives. Um there's a public health benefit uh because we're not using peaker um fossil fuel peaking plans as much. Um, you know, again in Maine, um, as was mentioned with, you know, fuel oil and again when my brother got a heat pump, you know, they used to have fuel oil, but now, you know, it's a much cleaner way to, um, heat and cool their home. Um, and so that has some major public health benefits both at the home level and community as well. Um, and then, uh, you know, you're able to enable grid resilience and reliability. Uh so particularly when low to moderate income families have these resources that participate in virtual power plants um they're able to maintain backup power during extreme weather or grid failures. Um and that's a really significant um benefit for folks. Um and at Sun we really believe in a future centered and energy democracy. Um and virtual power plants help to do that. um you know certainly by um providing um you know kind of a transfer of economic value back from the utility to its customers. Uh so best practices for virtual power plant policy um you know we want to see fair compensation compensation clear benefits um and there's a variety of of ways to do that um including upfront incentives ongoing compensation um and then we really want to center additional incentives for income qualified customers as well into a program. Um, it's important for folks that participate to have clear terms and conditions, easy enrollment pathways. Um, so often, again, it's just through the battery manufacturers app. Um, so you just kind of click a button on your cell phone and you're able to enroll in a program. Um, and that makes it really easy for folks um, and for people to really understand uh, their rights um, within a program. um how they get out of a program if they don't like it, how they're able to opt out of individual grid events um and what that sort of means from your household perspective. Um and then we want to see uh virtual power plants that are technology inclusive. Um so the value from VPPs really comes from um as many batteries that can join um with as many different you know companies, as many smart thermostats, as many HVAC systems um you know as many EVs. Uh so the more you get the better in these programs really. Um so the more people that participate the more benefits um translate both to the participating customers but also uh customers of the utility as a whole. Um and so the good thing is um the program in Maine really does model a lot of these best um virtual power plant program principles. Um so by aligning compensation with grid services provided um you create cost-effective programs that incentivize customer participation but also again create um energy affordability. Um and you want to have a program that provides customers and thirdparty aggregators uh with certainty that um program participation is going to be a reliable revenue stream. Um, so something that can be counted on and worthy of them joining up and participating in a program. Um, a lot of states you see, you know, small pilot programs that, you know, just doesn't give folks the certainty to know whether the program is going to be around in two or three years. Um, and it just, you know, when you're looking at upfront investments of, you know, 10 to$15,000 for a battery system, you have to have that upfront um certainty to know that that u program is going to be um with you for the life of your system. And um again, we want to see policies that support easy customer enrollment um and maximi maximize participation pathways. Um, and so, you know, I think the main program's in a good start with a lot of these principles. Um, and we're excited to to see where it's going to grow over the course of time. Um, and, uh, so here's just a slide. Um, if you have additional questions, um, feel free to click on that website link. Um, I'm guessing Matt and others will send out the slide deck to you after the presentation. Um, I would highlight there's a a quick twominut twominute little explainer video. Um it's an animated explainer video around virtual power plants. Um that's available through that link. Um or separately through our YouTube channel at Solar United Neighbors. Um it gives you a little bit more information. Um and you can share it, you know, with friends, neighbors, and other folks that are interested. Um and then that's my direct email, so feel free to to get in touch as you have questions. And I know that was really quick, but I wanted to make sure that there's time for um questions. >> Amazing. Thank you, Shannon, and thank you to all our speakers. I know we're coming up at the top of the hour. I I think at least one of the speakers has to run at one. Um so, yeah, we squeezed a lot of great info in. We looked at what the state of Maine is doing. We looked at an amazing example from our friends and neighbors in Vermont and um Shannon and what Shannon is working on in various states and giving us some best models and policies to think about. Um, so I guess yeah, the uh we just want to give a quick pitch to the program Shannon was alluding to efficiency main that is um really getting us off the ground here as we start thinking about virtual power plants and how we want to start advocating and uh helping folks learn more efficiency main stepped up with um a program that's in this light. So, uh, before we get to other questions, I don't know if Ian or Andy or someone from efficiency man wants to give, um, a quick pitch and we can put even the link in the chat to have folks sign up. >> Yeah. Hi folks, Ian here. I I'll just say that I think Andy has spoken to most of you guys about it and the program is available today. I think there are a lot of really great details from other jurisdictions. Um, you know, I think there are some challenges that we have of replicating absolutely everything. Um, I love what Green Mountain Power is doing and it sort of speaks to some of the power of their regulatory model, some of the things that they're able to do and, um, you know, part of my role at Efficiency Maine is working on on what's next. And um we have a perhaps different pathway to the summit given our deregulated um nature of our um of our jurisdiction, but I just want everybody to know that we're working really hard to get to the same place. >> That's great. Thanks, Ian. And yeah, we'll um we'll make sure to follow up with folks and the link uh for the program for efficiency main directly. Um, and in the last, yeah, a couple minutes here, we have a time for a couple questions if folks just want to use the raise hand function just like Hy. Uh, and we'll get to as many as we can. Hy, go for it. >> Yeah, I'm I'm curious in uh for Green Mountain Power, what was what was the thinking and the incentive to start that program of providing, you know, in residential batteries for customers? because um I would imagine that there's an organizational cultural difference between Green Mountain Power and utilities we have here in Maine around doing something like that. So I'm just curious as to you know what if you put it on paper in terms of you know figures you must have seen some savings and something. what were what were the driving factors that you know uh that you would say Green Mountain saw that drove them to do this? >> Yeah, great question. I think you know so the first thing was just around in you know we were always looking at what's the latest and greatest technology how can we better serve customers that the the traditional GMPs existed since 1893 so at the time we were hitting over 100 years old um and we're like what there's got to be better ways to get customers um you know to be safe secure in their home and also to manage a grid in a in a different way so that was kind of the the impetus for like how are we going to innovate around this stuff and Then when storage came into the into the fold um we just started looking at it from a perspective of what what can we use it for? What are the values? And the first ones for us were these peaks. That's kind of the the lowhanging fruit in New England. It was around how do if we reduce our peaks during the month and if we reduce the ISO annual peak that's a direct savings. Then we thought of it kind of simply which was all right we're going to take 100% of that savings. I'm going to take 80ish% and flow that through to the host customer. So the person that's participating to make that thing as low cost as we can and the remaining 20 will go to all customers. So we still want to do it in a way that still helps put downward pressure on rates for everybody but makes it make sense for the host customer. And so our program now if you do the lease program you pay $55 a month to do the lease or you buy a battery and you can get up to I think it's either 9 or 10,000 or so depending on size of the battery and and some systems there. Um and then that's we've been building from there. We do now that we do other markets, we share 80 to 90% with the host and then retain the remainder to lower cost for all customers. That's been our kind of our thinking through developing those things. >> And just uh just to be clear, Josh, uh Green Mountain Power is not a customer-owned utility. Is that correct? >> Customer we're an IOU. We're as investor own. >> Investor owned utility. Okay. Like the ones we have here in Maine. Gotcha. Thank you. >> Yep. You got you got it. >> Mhm. >> David. >> Yeah. Uh this for all the panelists and uh uh between a battery and a home generator. I don't want a home generator. I don't want to have fossil fuel sitting around anywhere. uh you know these things uh have had accidents and and so forth and but what is what is the record of home batteries uh compared to say generators uh as far as fires? Do we have any hard data on that? Have we had batteries out that long enough to assure customers that this is a safer solution? >> So that's >> Yeah. No, Josh, if you want to take this probably from your perspective, but um home batteries are incredibly safe. Um, you know, they're very well designed. They have, you know, standards that they have to adhere to. Um, so there's basically no incidents. Um, some of the battery instance that you hear of are more like the utility scale batteries. Um, and those are also very few and far between. Um but at the home level there's you know really no safety issues um that folks should be concerned about. >> Yeah that yeah I totally agree Shannon. We in fact what what we've done is more so around you know the more batteries that get deployed in homes unfortunately the more likely it is that a home has a structure fire or some other incident around it um for other reasons. And so we've worked really closely with with the fire training facilities here in Vermont with with any communities that um which we always have from an electrical safety standpoint anyway, but rolling the storage into it. Um we have labeling and a lot of ways to make sure they know where there's there's storage there. But that's been more of the focus is how to how to fight a fire when there is which really good news is nothing really changes from their perspective. They continue to to do what they do. But um but as Shannon said, they've been incredibly safe as well. All right. Um, looks like uh we might have time for one more question from Cliff and then I think we'll we'll wrap it up there. Go for it, Cliff. >> Now, I know in the state of Maine, net energy billing has been very popular and a lot of people have installed maybe anywhere up from 8 to 10 kilowatts on their roofs. Am I correct in assuming that in Maine? somewhere eight to 10 and that's an awful lot of electricity for a single family to be installing and I know they it gets into a credit pile that's spread out over a full year when for about 3 months of the year there isn't as much sun. So, I've been living off-rid for 7, 8, nine years now with a full battery backup system, batteries by Fortress installed by Solar Solutions. And there are very few people who actually have experience working other than utility companies that have experience working with home solar systems. We have a complete we're our own utility here and I can state right now that we only have around 5 to 6 kilows and it serves us quite well. We do have a backup generator gas Honda generator that we probably spend and I was doing some calculating maybe $150 to $200 a year for gasoline. But we have a complete solar home and electric home. We have um all the backup systems that are currently available, mini splits, electric stove. And we just have to be a little more careful for three months of the year from mid to late November till midFebruary. And know that if we want to cook dinner, we don't want to start it when the sun's going down. We want to do it when the sun's up. and we have dinner ahead of time. Um, now I know there's probably very few people here, even the people who are presenting that are off- grid. So, know what I'm talking about. You do have to be a lot more conscious of leaving lights on and and things going on. So, I'm giving you that background. Um, and I do appreciate the idea that Shannon is is talking about having a community virtual grid, but at when people are putting 10 kilowatts on their roof, that's an awful lot of power. And there must be a better way better way to aggregate that power to people who can afford 10 kilowatts on a roof. They certainly should be able to afford two batteries. Now, my battery system is a Fortress, what they call fortress battery, and we had two batteries for a number of years and and the the one expert at really troubleshooting anytime we have little issues, uh, said, "Let's try to go to a third battery." So, we have three. And the batteries aren't cheap. They're like five grand each. But if you think of what people are spending for a 10 kilowatt system on their roof, they certainly could afford all the inverters and everything in in a small building separate from their house. So my concern is that we make better use of this high aggregation amount of solar collectors on people's roofs and rather than just you know you know crediting them for the three three to four months that are there's low sun. Um >> yeah, so virtual power plants, that's exactly part of the solution. Um and so that's what Josh was talking about in in states with high solar penetration, um Arizona, California, Illinois. Um having additional battery storage on the grid and linking it together in a virtual power plant, uh creates benefits not just for the the person with the battery in the solar system, but for the grid as a whole. So, um, and I would just say, you know, kind of your situation, Cliff, um, is being replicated, um, hundred times or a thousand times with, um, data centers right now. Um, there's a real question of whether they should island, sort of be separate from the grid, um, have their own capacity at their site or whether they should be like a grid citizen and connect to the grid. Um, and so, you know, there's a ongoing sort of conversation about that. Um but if you have kind of even large load um customers connected to the grid um they're able to bring their financial resources to invest in things like virtual power plants for the grid um that benefit communities and the grid as a whole. Um so yeah I mean being off-rid is certainly a solution for some people. It's it's a rare solution I would say um you know for a lot of folks and um being grid tied is by far the more common situation. And so let's just kind of make the most of it too, I think, for everybody is what virtual power plants try to do. So >> one quick message about data centers. The very least that these centers need to do is recycle every drop of water. >> That's the very least they need to do. I don't think we should let any of these centers go in unless they're recycling their water. >> Great. Yeah. Thanks, Cliff. Thanks, Shannon. Um, and I see two more hands, but I do want to just um say thank you to all the speakers. I think some have to go. We're we're going to stop the recording here just for time consistency with our community conversations. Um, but we'll keep this room open, especially for our folks on our energy team who want to keep chatting. Um, if you can stay, great. But, um, I know we had some time commitments today. So, thank you all very much to all of our speakers. um really appreciate your time talking about virtual power plants today and uh I hope we yeah keep chatting about it. We definitely want to highlight the efficiency main program that's in the chat for folks to sign up and get more batteries out there. And um with that, Karen, maybe we can close the recording. And um I'm going to keep leave the room open for our folks, whoever wants to chat. Whoever can say great, thank you very much. Um, but >> thanks for that. >> Cat had a question.