Commission for Persons with Disabilities Aug 11, 2026

Anybody there? >> Yes. Good morning. >> Good. Good morning. Who is that? Is that Amber? >> It's It's Pamela. >> Oh. Oh, wow. My god. I couldn't tell your voice. How are you? >> Uh, I'm tired, but I'm okay. >> Yeah, I get that. [laughter] I totally get that. I just sent you a little note about a correction in the minutes. >> Yep. I just saw that and printed it out. I have to admit that um I don't think that I read the minutes that quickly. I was that closely. We were >> It's fine. It doesn't matter. That's why we read it. >> Yeah. Trying >> I I had I did it a lot earlier, but when I wrote minutes June, I didn't capitalize June. I just sent it. I didn't realize it didn't get sent [laughter] until I went back to it and said, "Oh my god, I didn't capitalize June, so it won't let me send it." So that's why you got it so late. >> Now you can make that correction. >> Okay. Are you back in your >> We're We are back upstairs on the second floor. So, is that the same is that considered to be the same floor as the senior center or have changed? >> So, the senior center is on the um first floor. So, there is >> they used to call it different things. >> Yes. So, there's um >> they used to call that the second floor, >> right? >> They used to call the basement the first floor. So, you're actually on what I know as the third floor. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> There's nothing above us, >> right? No, they used to call that the third floor. I don't know why they changed the numbering, but >> what do they call the basement? >> So, the basement is called the basement. The large activity room is on the ground floor. >> Okay. The senior center is on the first floor >> and um DEI is on the second floor and we will soon be joined by public health which is moving upstairs. >> Okay, that makes sense. >> It's a funny building and I don't know what the plan is for Wildwood, but I have a feeling they're going to move some of you there. Is a wreck is there now, right? Yes, but evidently there are some um issues with the space at Wildwood. So, there's a rumor going around that wreck might at least temporarily come also to the second floor. >> Okay. What are the issues with Wildwood? >> Uh I I honestly don't know. Um >> um but I know that uh there was some conversation about having the rec staff moved to the second floor. >> Wow. Okay. I don't know. I mean, they were using it as a school three months ago, >> right? >> So, I mean, other than the fact that a lot of the toilets are way too low for adults to sit on, [laughter] >> the kindergarten toilets are something else. >> Yeah. [laughter] So, good morning, Sierra. Thanks for joining us. >> Hi. Uh, nice to meet you guys in person. >> Nice to meet you as well. >> Or not quite in person, but >> yeah, see your face. >> All right. And Bob, nice to to uh to see you in person or see you on screen. We've talked on the phone. >> Hi, Pamela. Yeah, same here. Thank you. >> Great. And it looks like um uh other people are beginning to to pop in. So, which is great. >> I think we only have >> It's just the two of us. Yeah. So, we're >> I think >> we're waiting for >> all the guests. >> Yeah. All of our guests are here, but um we have not >> We should have our other um commission members coming quickly. >> Who wrote the narrative for the um wayfinder? Uh, it was kind of a team effort, but I I >> It's really good. >> Oh, good. Well, thanks. But it is a team. >> No, it's really good because I require the narrative. Um, so I know what you're talking about and the only thing I don't really understand and don't need to, I guess, is the depth and the width of the courtyard. But you described it really well. I get it. >> Oh, good. I'm glad to hear that, Myra. Yeah. >> Yeah, it's good. Well, Pamela helped us to uh u make sure that we were communicating fully. Um so we wanted to write as thorough a description as we could. >> No, I really appreciate it. Uh I guess I don't know where the parking is that I don't know either narrative. Um but >> yeah, we can explain that as well. >> Yeah, I'm just trying to streamline it because there's a lot of important stuff. Oh, the one thing that I'm going to mention later, but I don't want to belabor it. Um, accessibility to me means a lot more than getting in the building. And I wrote to Jeff Dogen and uh Ralph Dico about this because it's not in the AAB regulations. But in 2026, which would not have been the case in 2006, but in 2026, appliance accessibility has to be considered when people are getting rentals um or you know any kind of even purchase of condos. But purchase, you have to take care of it yourself. With a rental, if you're blind, there are many dishwashers and stoves that you cannot operate. >> And because they all work with touchscreens, often they are heat sensitive. In other words, if your body heat touches it, it activates. >> The activation has nothing to do with pressure. It has to do with only touch. And if you go into an appliance store, most of what's there is inaccessible. And this includes communal washing machines and dryers for apartment complexes. A lot of blind people now are buying uh who are buying them are are having to buy the ones that are operated through Alexa or through Wi-Fi because they're so inaccessible to the touch. And all of that is great if you have Wi-Fi. Right. >> Right. >> Um and these days most people do, but in rentals, particularly low income, you know, mixed income rentals, there are going to be some people who don't. Mhm. >> And >> so I, you know, that's accessibility has become much more complicated >> because I can get in the building but literally cannot use an apartment that has a dishwasher and a stove that are touchscreen sensitive because I can't mark them because you can't put a marking on them because then they don't activate because you put the marking on top and it's not heats it. So, it's it either activates without wanting to or it won't activate when you want it to. >> I'm going to interrupt just for a second to say that >> uh Jim has joined us, Myra. And I just sent out an email >> to the other um commissioners to remind them to join the meeting. So, we need one more person >> um to have a quorum. >> Yep. And as soon as we get one um >> Yeah. So, I'm not going to talk about this in the meeting except to say that accessibility means much more because I want it on the record, but architects need to start to think in terms of that. Um, you know, it didn't used to be an issue. >> Um, but it is now. >> It's very helpful. I mean, and it I think it's it's not only uh architects and and what we do for design, but it it feels like it also it needs to extend to manufacturers. Oh yes, there are people working on that. But I think that the if the building codes I don't mean the building codes entirely, but frankly it could be in the building code for rentals if the AAB federal, which won't do it right now. Um, but if the state MA, you know, MAB started to put things like that and especially if California did put it in their regulations, manufacturers would think about it. >> Right. That's right. They've got to hear from people before they're going to do it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm gonna >> have four. Excellent. >> All right. Well, we we're now at five because uh Cody has just joined us as well. So, I'm going to read the um call to order and uh Myra, then you can call for >> Okay. >> Um >> the role. >> So, pursuant to chapter 2 of the acts of 2025, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting remotely may do so via Zoom or telephone. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. The time is now 11:36. >> Well, thank you um Pamela. Thanks to everyone who's here. Um first we'll call the role. So, uh, Cody, I think you're muted, but we know you're here. >> Yes, we can see. >> Okay. Excellent. Uh, Jim >> here. >> Uh, Sarin >> here. >> Myra is here. Pamela here. Ian told us he would not be here. >> Oh, I mean, >> oh, you are here. >> Yeah, it's Reginald who's not here. president told us he would not be here. I am so sorry. Okay, so we have six of the seven members, which is great. Um, and is Amber here? I want to acknowledge her if she is. >> She is not. >> She is not. Okay. Um, let me get my agenda up again. Oh, come on. Here it is. Um, do we have any public comment? Is there any member of the public who would like to make a statement before the meeting? We have another public comment period at the end. >> Don't believe we have any members of the public present. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um Um, approval of minutes for May 12 and June 9. We need to take care of this and we always forget to. So, I'm glad you put it here. Um, does anyone have any uh corrections or additions to the minutes that we have received? I sent one to Pamela um which she will make. It had to do with isn't instead of is. Um, can I have a motion on the minutes, please? I move that we accept the minutes both of them. >> Okay. May 12th and June 9th. I need a second. >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor of ex of approving those minutes. Um please say I. >> I. >> Okay. >> I heard everybody. All right. Perfect. Um, everyone opposed? Any abstensions? Okay, we have minutes. Yay. Um, now we're up to reports. And what I'd like to do, if if you don't mind, Ian, I'd like to jump over the reports to the presentation about the variance. Um, I don't know what day exactly they're going to the uh MAAB, but usually these things have a short turnaround. So, is that okay with you, Ian, if we put you on later? >> Uh, yes. Uh, I'm I'm not sure what I'm on for later. Is Is it >> Oh, you're there to talk about the parking. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Okay. Um All right. So let's let's let's go to the wayfinders variance request and they sent us a narrative as well as the application. Um I assume people have read both. Um, so it seems like in the interest of everybody's time, can you explain to us exactly where um the parking is and how much of the parking there is near that courtyard entrance and um explain why you would like the variance instead of you want to be able to uh explain what you want to do. But we have read what you presented. Oh, you want to identify yourselves too, please. I'm sorry I can't read your names on the screen. So, um, tell us who you are representing Wayfinders and then tell us what you want to do. >> I'll jump in here. Um, I'm Jamie Gruber. I'm a real estate development project manager at Wayfinders. And um this has been you know um been working on this development for for quite a while and I'm here with our architects um Joy Squared and I'll let them uh introduce themselves that will uh do the presentation for you. Thank you for having us today. >> Yeah, I'm Sarah and I'll just jump in and introduce myself because I think Bob wanted to Bob looked like he was going to explain um but I' I'm working with Bob on this project and uh uh nice to meet you all. Nice to meet you. >> Thanks, Eric. And I am Bob Bob Waggler, one of the principles at Joy Squared. Um, so we we've got a little bit of a presentation, but I'm I'm mindful that uh it it could be that there's no need to go through the narrative if you've all read it, but I'm happy to do that. I just don't want it to feel I don't know repetitive or redundant if you already feel like you have familiarity with all that and just want to get to specific questions around it. Um is there is there >> how does the commission feel about that? >> Do you want the presentation or do you feel like I mean I have a couple questions. Does anyone feel like they need the whole presentation or can we spend the time on the questions? >> Maybe just a brief presentation, a brief summary. what it is about the street and the construction site. What are the plans? Just read a few sentences that >> and the topography of the land because that's one thing I >> Yeah, >> it's like interesting that you I mean there are other buildings that are like that too. So, okay go um take it away Bob. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Uh, everyone able to see that? >> Nope. But that's okay. [laughter] >> Oh, thank you. Thank you, Myra. Yes. Those those who are uh cited, are you able to see the images? >> Yes. >> Yes. Okay. Thanks. >> So, um this is uh we this project is actually two sites. U I don't know if you caught that or not. and we're going to focus on 31 Southeast Street, not the Belchuretown Road site, but it's a part of a larger two-site project, just so you you know. >> Um, and you there's a mix of uh group one and group two units. Uh, both buildings have elevators. >> Could you define group one and group two, please? >> Sure. under under MAB, uh, all units that, uh, are in new construction and have have a, uh, have an elevator need to need to be group one units. So, they're they're a certain level of accessibility under MAB. They're not fully accessible. Group two gets into fully accessible, meaning that there's uh, more significant um, clear floor areas. There's more space within bathrooms and kitchens. Uh there are things like grab bars and uh places under counters to roll under. So group one is more adaptable, but uh group two is is more fully accessible. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. And we have, just so you know, we have we have two group two units at the at the site we're going to be talking about on Southeast Street. one is within the school and the other is in the the new addition. So, the project uh includes an existing school masonry uh school building. You're seeing images of that here on the right. Um that big archway um at the front of the school originally was the main entrance of the school. It no longer is. The steps have been removed. And so, uh the the lower image for those that are able to see it, you can see it's been infilled. uh there no no longer steps up to this main arched entry anymore, but we're planning on reactivating that, but that entry is not accessible under 521. So that's what this is about. Our we're seeking a variance for uh for that entry to the school and reactivating the existing entry. Uh let's see, let's go down and talk a little bit more. Uh you you can you can you can be aware of uh the the image for those who can see the school is on the left here and there is a a link a narrow link that connects the new building that faces Southeast Street. There's a long building uh two and a half story building that runs along Southeast Street where where of a majority of the new dwelling units are located and then a link at the back that connects the rear of that uh that new building running along Southeast Street to the school and that configuration you're going to you're going to see or if you can you can picture this I know Myra you asked about the the size of the courtyard But the the school, the link, and the backside of the new building create a courtyard. And that courtyard faces parking. It's south facing as well. And it's where our primary entrance uh to the uh to the whole uh building is located. >> And it's ideal in winter because the snow will melt. >> There you go. South facing. That's right. That's right. And the >> not unimportant. Well, no, that that's that's that's right. That's right. So, you know, kind of maintaining clear pathways is is is good uh good good for everyone. Um you'll see uh or I will describe that the the accessible parking spaces are immediately adjacent to this courtyard. So, from the accessible parking spaces, the most efficient route to the entrances um are are from these parking spaces. So, we've we've located these accessible parking spaces as close to the entry as possible. Um, Myra, [clears throat] you had asked about the the size of the courtyard, and maybe while I'm talking, Sarah can dig up that information to see what that that courtyard uh >> dimensions are. >> Yeah, I just uh got our our working file up and um so overall, it's about 40 feet by 30 feet. That's with the stair interrupting and that the uninterrupted space is about 30 by 30 and then with the ramp it narrows it to about 20 by 30. Um >> yeah, >> thank you. >> So there's there's the courtyard. Uh so on the uh on the um what would be the uh let's see the west side of the courtyard is the school. The north side is the link and the east side is is the new building and the space that's in that new building is the community room. So the idea here is to activate this courtyard by way of entrances by common space and uh uh and parking that's immediately adjacent to it. >> So are you saying you can enter the community room from the outside? >> You can. Yes. I mean those doors will will probably be locked a lot of the time, but if there's a function going on, there is access directly from the community room out to the courtyard. >> That's great. So, there are street facing entries uh also remind you uh in the new building along Southeast Street and there there are two there that are both accessible uh but it's a it's a little bit uh longer travel uh distance um to the uh to the to the elevator, the new elevator. So, the the most direct route to the new elevator is through this courtyard. Then we're going to move uh to another plan here. And um what's showing is the is the ground floor plan. Uh, so we've we've shown a kind of a an oval and a star that that centers you in the courtyard and shows you that when you're in the middle of the courtyard uh you've got the proposed new stairs to the school directly in front of you and then uh if you turn 90 degrees you've got the entrance uh to the new building through the uh the link entry if you will. So, so the entry sequence whether you're going directly into the school or into the new link entrance is really from the same location. So, it's it's centralized in the courtyard in that way. Then, if you if you were to take the proposed stairs up to the school, you'll you'll get you're going to be roughly uh six feet plus above grade. So, it's a pretty significant set of stairs to get up to this this reactivated school entrance and obviously not not accessible uh for someone uh in a in a walker, a wheelchair or a stroller. It's it's a pretty significant uh set of stairs. Um, and I want to point out that the levels in the school and the level in the new building are not at the same elevation. So our elevator uh has half stops. So this elevator is going to stop at all the floors in the school and all the floors in the new construction. But they are at different elevations. So it it will it will help to to make both uh parts of the building accessible. So obviously then doors have to be on opposite sides of the cab and the elevator to do that. Then the accessible unit in the school is on the uh is on the third floor. It's a one-bedroom uh group two accessible unit that's that's uh on the third floor. So uh person living there will use the elevator to get up to that. They would go through that uh that link uh entry that we talked about down the uh down the corridor up the elevator and then be able to get to their unit. I anticipate the question that's going to come and I won't say who it's going to come from but I'll ask it wouldn't be mine necessarily getting in a fire if you have a group two on the third floor. >> Yeah, >> you're asking you're the one who would have asked it. Um that's a big problem for accessibility of exit. Not entrance but emergency exit. If you're up on the third floor, you have to wait for somebody to carry you down the stairs because the elevator doesn't work. >> Correct. >> Why is it on the third floor? >> Right. >> Couldn't it be on a lower floor? Well, it it could, but it it's going to have the same issue no matter where it is because it's it's not it's not at grade because the school doesn't have a floor that's at grade. >> Can there be can both of the group twos be on the first floor of the other building? >> We could we could study that and and look at that. They're they're currently not there. The um let's see, Sarah, do you recall the the group two unit in the new construction? What floor that's on? >> I I wasn't even sure what was the two different buildings. I read it carefully, but can't recall at all. Yes. This this um Sarin, this is the school right here that I'm circling. This is the lake. >> And then this is the newer building that runs along Southeast Street. >> Right. Okay. >> I mean, we had kind of in front of the school, right? When you're on street. >> That's right. That's right. You'll be able to see part of the school. Um You can see in this this rendering >> from across the common there. Here's the new building and you can see the school. >> It doesn't totally block it if you're coming from this direction. You'll be able to see the school, see the entrance. >> Yes. >> So why couldn't it be on the new building construction? Mhm. Yeah, >> it's a pretty serious question. >> I mean, it's not the variance that you want, but >> for us, it's a real serious question. >> Yes, >> people, especially if you're in a motorized wheelchair, >> you're pretty heavy to take down in that chair. You can't just be carried down because then what do you do at the bottom? >> Um, I think that's like a disaster waiting to happen. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I believe the accessible unit is this it here Sarah in the second floor. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah. Well, we could we could look at that. We could look at moving um both accessible units to the lower floor to the first floor. >> Yes. >> I'm not sure we would get Let's see. We've got right now a onebedroom and a uh uh I believe a threebedroom. And we we might not be able to get a three-bedroom accessible unit on the first floor. >> Yeah. >> So, it's it's it's the three-bedroom that's on the top. >> No, the three bedroom three bedrooms on the second floor. >> And I think maybe the reason it's located where it is currently is um it's over the community room. So, it's sort of a unique space where we just have a little bit more square footage to to to get that stuff in, which isn't to say that that it it couldn't be relocated. Um, it's it's interesting because I um I hadn't really heard that perspective before and I feel like I might be making this up, but I I feel like we've maybe sort of in the past gotten um the the idea that it's sort of nice to to basically have these things distributed throughout the building so there isn't sort of like the the designated corner that's for the group two units or something. It's nice to in the way of of having just the different unit types sort of distributed throughout. Um, >> point well taken for sure. But would you rather be isolated or would you rather be [laughter] stuck in a fire? >> That's right. >> It's very good to to to get that. Um, I haven't been in a in a in one of these meetings before, so that's that's a a really valuable perspective for me at least. So, thank you for for asking it. >> I mean, I I think clearly that um many folks who use wheelchairs live on upper stories of buildings and, you know, with limited ability to get out of the event of fire and and they live with it. Um, you're certainly going to have some people who are going to say, "No, I don't, you know, I really need a space, but I can't I'm I'm I I don't want that space." Which sort of limits what they can do. So, that to the degree that you can rectify this problem, that's wonderful. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think it'll be easier to uh to have a one-bedroom go to a lower floor, but there's there's also uh and Jamie, you might be able to speak to this. And on the first floor right now, um I'll I'll describe. We've got I believe we've got uh six twobedroom units and two threebedroom units. Do I have that right, Sarah? >> Yeah. Yeah, I believe so. And then it's the one bedrooms are just at the upper floor because it's a little bit smaller. >> Yeah. So, it it I guess what I'm getting at, it could result in if we're if we're going to try to get both a one-bedroom and a three-bedroom accessible unit, what we would be studying is, okay, we could we could probably get a three-bedroom group two and a one-bedroom group two on the first floor. Uh, but we might lose a bedroom there. And then can we get can we make the uh the accessible what's currently the accessible onebedroom a two-bedroom in the um in the school and I'm not sure we have enough space for that. So we might lose a bedroom. >> Yeah. And I know throughout, you know, a lot of discussions that we had with the design team is that we were, you know, looking to kind of fit as much as we could, you know, in this in this, you know, in this area to to make sure that we were, um, you know, utilizing the the space of the property and how the existing building was sort of already cited on it. Um, along with how the, you know, best best to kind of put the, um, unit matrix within there. And I do, and to speak to Sarah's point, I do, you know, remember speaking of, oh, you know, kind of dispersing things sort of throughout the um, you know, throughout the development and throughout each building to kind of so it wasn't like just sort of placing, you know, the group two units in one sort of, you know, location right next to each other or or that sort of thing. So there there was sort of, you know, kind of a lot that went into it. But I do I mean it is a it is a you know a really good point and we can you know I think Bob you know we can look to that to see how it might kind of affect things you know. However, it is pretty the the way that the the unit sort of um developed over in the in the design itself and you know how kind of tight the property and the buildable area was is that it was sort of an idea to kind of you know a balance of of a lot of different things that kind of played into that. So, but I definitely >> So, in the disability community, there is a statement um and it's probably it goes for a lot of other groups that are not in the majority. Nothing about us without us. So, um I think I certainly address one perspective. Jim has maybe another perspective. Um, but I think it's something that people really need to think about all the time, especially in new construction. Are we um doing the best for the people that are going to be living here? How are they going to get out in a fire? >> That's right. >> Um, >> and you're not going to say there aren't any fires because we all know pretty well in this town that there can be absolutely catastrophic fires, which there have been in the last year >> in this town. >> That's right. Yeah. >> Um, in new construction. >> So, um anyway, uh it's just something to think about. The law is on your side. The law is not going to say you can't do this, but we're bringing it up, >> you know, as in the law of the MAB. >> Um okay, so let's get back to the the um entrance. You have a staircase. You have a ramp, which would be longer the if you did it the other way, right? That's right. That's right, Myra. Maybe I could go to these these diagrams and and uh just give a brief narrative um as to as to what we we've looked at here. So, we studied what what it would mean to make that school uh reactivate that school entrance and make it accessible via a ramp. And uh one image uh for those who can can see this image on the left is the the the dimension from the link entrance. So the link entrance being off the courtyard here. You can could see there's there's the courtyard. Uh plan north is the [clears throat] is the stair to the school. Here's the link and parking is running along the edge of the the courtyard that we talked about. But from that entrance, the link, the horizontal distance from that entry point over to what is the interior or inside of the the proposed school entrance is is about 87 ft. That's the travel distance. Now, if you if you build a ramp that has to get up over six feet from grade up to the uh the what is the first floor of the school uh [clears throat] to get to the what is kind of that archway opening or the really the length of the ramp to get to that point is over 97 feet and then it's another roughly 12 feet from [clears throat] there to get to where the door is. So, we've got a we've got a, you know, a pretty significant travel distance um differential there that that results in um about 14 ft longer travel distance with a ramp than >> Does that include the five foot turning platform? >> Yes. Yeah, >> that's right. The landings. Right. So, we can only go so far a ramp before we need to have a landing. Right. >> Okay. and and there are there are three landings uh in what we've diagrammed here. >> The other thing that it it does that uh we I don't know we didn't think was advantageous was it it takes more of the open space outside you know the courtyard and it also ended up having to we had to lose one of the parking spaces to get it as well. >> We're pretty tight on parking as it is. Um we uh you know we've gotten approval from the planning board uh for a number of spaces but um that I don't know if we'd have to go back to the planning board losing one more space or not. We might have to. It's [snorts] because parking was tight. And then lastly, I would note that uh and and Meyer, I think you brought this up earlier uh snow the this is this is an exposed ramp. So, uh, with snow or inclement weather, it's it's more maintenance. It's not as, you know, somebody's going to have to travel, uh, you know, up the ramp, uh, in the rain where, uh, at the at the proposed entrance, you're you're at the door and you're inside. So, you do have you still have to shovel the courtyard either way, you know, but the ramp itself would uh would need to be uh have a snowblower shoveled. Um, and also is not covered uh during during rainstorms. >> Can I ask a stupid question? [clears throat] Why do you need the staircase at all? >> It's going to be eight steps at least. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> That's right. It's I think it's might even be a nine or 10, but >> might be. Yeah. I mean, if it's if they're eight foot 8 inch steps, you're going to have for six feet, you're going to have uh six Oh, yeah. More. Okay. >> Yeah. So yeah, our minimum rind is actually it takes a lot of space. It's, you know, carrying your groceries up that isn't so cool. Um, moving in day isn't so cool. Why do you need it? Is it just because it's historic? >> Well, that's part of it, Mara. And and it's not a stupid question. I mean um [clears throat] the uh it's it's historic in in the sense it was it was there and architecturally that entrance is is really a major component of the design of the building. Um there is a I would say it's I don't know Sarah might be able to uh corroborate this but I'd say it might be a 12t wide archway. There's a significant archway you know and it's it's very attractive actually. It's a nice feature on the building. The old school is this archway that was the original entrance. So, some of it was to to uh reactivate what is really a feature on the building, you know, the the main arched entry to the building. And it also allowed for some folks who might want to take that stair to go more directly to their unit than through the uh you know, through the link entry. Uh, and they can go through the link entry and and then take the elevator up or they could take a stair a new stair that's internal too. >> It was a good but it's about it's about 13 feet. >> 13 feet. Okay. Yeah. It felt like not to reactivate the stair would be uh it just feels like it's missing, you know, to be honest. Uh, >> what's 13 feet? >> The arch the width of the arch is 13T. Right. And it's 6 feet up. 6 * 12 is 72. 72 divided by 8 is 9. So you're right. It's nine steps up >> to get into it. >> You actually have to go a little higher, Myra, because 7 in is the maximum >> uh we can we can have. >> So it's 10 to 11 steps and it's going to be full of snow. >> It it will need to be You're right. It will need to be like like the pro, you know, the ramp option. Those those stairs too will have to be shoved. >> What do you think, Rob Mora? >> Well, the other thing is is that >> I know I'm serious. He's the building inspector. >> Both the steps and the ramp, you're going to have to monitor that all the time, especially during the day because uh ice is going to develop. um >> yeah, >> moves over to the west. Uh and that's going to be a real problem for ambulatory and non-ambulatory people. So, it's it's sort of a if you've got uh maintenance on site during the day, they're going to have to be pretty busy or at least very alert. >> Yeah. And and that's something nice about our properties is that we do have on-site um maintenance and staff at these that are, you know, that are available. So it is it is something like Wayfinders has a presence at their properties to kind of you know make sure that um these these things are are taken care of. But it is a it is a good point. I know that you know taking care of um steps and in the winter time is difficult. I mean the steps at my own house are are you know it's always a struggle you know to kind of make sure that they're uh you know they're appropriately cleared for um you know anyone that may be uh kind of coming up them. So, >> I mean, I think the other thing is, uh, that the the location of these gives people options. You know, let's say you just had a snowstorm, haven't been able to get out, uh, you know, it stopped snowing, but, you know, it's still a half hour before somebody can shovel, and you're you're you're driving in, you just go into the, uh, the link entry. You know, it's right there adjacent. They're right adjacent. So I think you have easy options or choices >> to take the stair or go into the building and then take the uh you know the elevator or take the uh the stair up to the uh the first floor of the school or second floor depending on where you live. >> Okay. I uh can't imagine too many people over the age of 30 who are going to be choosing 12 steps to get in to their house. Um, most of us don't have 12 steps to get into a house. The most I've ever seen is like seven or eight going to a porch >> and there's not even a porch. So, I don't know. >> There there are a lot of steps. Myra, you're right. U, the other thing is people may choose to leave through that door. >> Yes. >> You know, there you're say your unit's right there. Instead of going uh in the elevator, you might just go out that door and down the stairs into the courtyard. So, it's it's both an exit and an entrance. Right now, >> three seasons of the year in the winter, you could leave really quick through that door. One step. [clears throat] Okay. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> All right. I'm just bringing up I'm being devil's advocate again. you made a ramp so it's not an issue for the AA mAB but uh it I mean it's a problem for the the the getting out of that building is uh you know or getting in. Okay. Anyway, um so you would you need a variance because >> because we're not making uh an entrance accessible. >> However, there is an accessible entrance shorter distance and through the use of the elevator. Right. >> That's correct. That's correct. We also did a study here that shows from the from the parking space, the curb ramp at the aisle and the parking space >> uh through this accessible entrance to get inside the school entry is 121 ft. If we were to use the ramp from that same point, it's 100 over 135 ft. So again, you know, you know, noticeable increase in the length of of travel to get to the same point. So the entrance actually is accessible. So is it because it's not the primary entrance to the building? >> Well, no. The MAB says that all entries need to be accessible. Uh so because of the you know the amount of work we're doing here we we need to make um if if that if that door at the arched opening is going to remain an entrance mAB requires that it be accessible. >> Got it. Okay. >> So that's why we need the variance. >> All right. So you have an entrance at a right at a right angle that you can use to get used to take an elevator and there are other accessible entrances. So, here's my next question. Is there any parking between the building and Southeast Street? >> Yes. So, the parking I'm going to go to the site plan here. >> Yeah. >> And uh let's see. Okay. You can see or you I'll just uh in this plan that I'm showing the north is to the right. So, here's the school, here's the link, and here's the new building. There's a drive off of Southeast Street running east west, and along it are parking spaces facing north, and those parking spaces uh are facing the side of the new building and the southern edge of the courtyard. So, >> is there an entrance on the uh new building that faces the south there? >> That's that's the main entry on the courtyard. It's it's >> No, but not on the courtyard. On the new building. >> Not in the courtyard. There is There is not. There's There are two entrances along Southeast Street. >> Okay. And is one of them close to the south end of it? >> One of them is at the south end, the other is at the north end. That's right. >> Okay. And is are those accessible parking spaces? >> Well, those are accessible entries, but they're not as close to the accessible parking spaces as the courtyard entrance. But if you live in the street side, if you live in the new building, >> right, >> you and if you have a car, your own car, >> you would want to drive in, park on that north south, park on the either the north end or the south end, depending where your apartment is, >> and use one of those accessible entrances and not use the courtyard at all. The only people um the only people who would really need the courtyard accessible entrance are the people in the back building, right? >> I don't think so, Myra. I think that uh I think that if you're if you're driving um you're going to park on on what's the the south end of the building that that faces the courtyard and that the shortest shortest distance to your unit whether it's a lower level or up upper level is going to be going through the courtyard entrance. There's some exceptions. people who live on the let's say the the ground floor of the new building at the north end of it or possibly even in the middle of it may use these these entrances facing the street but if if they're going to take or if they want to take a stair there stairs there that can get them up but if they're going to take the elevator to get to an upper floor I think they're going to park uh down >> Ah got it because you have to go through the courtyard to get to the elevator okay >> so I I think the majority of people will enter through the courtyard, but I think there are some folks, especially folks who live on the lower level of the new construction, may enter through one of these other two entrances facing the street. >> So, how many handicap spaces do you are you reserving in this >> because people have guests >> um sometimes that need an accessible uh that need a handicap parking whether they themselves are disabled, they might have guests. Yes. Are >> we have two uh two on either side of an aisle >> out of a total of 14 I think spaces? >> Wait, there are 14 spaces for all these units? >> Yes, >> we had to talk with the town about it. Yeah. >> Well, it's it's it's pretty close to downtown bus routes and but Yeah. And there's a lot of on street parking on on Southeast Street. So there's there's 14 on-site onsite. >> Yeah. But there's another one on Belchuretown Road. >> Yep. That that has a larger parking area behind and that has a parking ratio of one one. So there's um I think there's a >> Okay. So we're not worried about that one as much. >> How many units in this East Street one? >> 31. >> And you have 14 parking spaces. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Yeah. Two. Oh my god. [laughter] >> It's Yeah, it's a It's pretty tight in terms of the ratio. >> It's trans transit oriented. Um but just to make the point that that uh the two spaces that we have are are a high percentage of the parking. >> Extremely high. I guess I'd like to remind everybody that this is not New York City with subways every 20 minutes. >> Yeah. >> It just does. Oh my god. Yeah, >> no parking for most of the people who have who live there is really the issue. >> Well, there as Jamie said, there's there's some street parking and and there was a lot of discussion. Uh, you know, the design is on this project's probably been going on for a couple of years. There's been a lot of discussion about maximizing the number of units and and okay, what's going to what's going to work for parking and a lot of back and forth with trying to figure that out. And this is where we landed uh with with you know significant input from uh the planning board, >> all of whom drive cars. Anyway, >> so the you're anticipating that the PBTA bus stops will remain where they are, >> right? Right. >> On Main, the one on Main Street, etc. >> Yeah, there I mean the PB the PBTA bus stop is there and it is one of the more frequent buses because Yeah. And but Okay. It does go up to your mass. It doesn't go to supermarkets. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. >> And it doesn't go to Hadley. You have to take two buses for that for what's really a 10minute drive if you have a car. [snorts] Anyway, um All right. That's something we can't deal with either. So for this group, um I guess we need a motion to approve the request for a variance to not have the stairway entrance be accessible but to have an alternate means to get there. Is that right? >> Right. Right. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um so I need a motion to approve their request for a variance and >> I so move. >> Okay. I need a second. I do I second. >> Okay. Is there any further discussion that we need to have because technically the only variance they need has to do with this. The other things that um the other things uh there are enough parking spaces as a percentage of the parking. That's not an issue. Um the apartments that they are putting on the upper floors where we might have concerns about it that is not against the MAB. Um, so they don't need a variance for any of that. All they need is the what we've requested. So, are we ready to vote? >> Yeah. I I I just want to say that, you know, Amis doesn't have enough affordable housing and uh this is a really odd kind of configuration as far as space is concerned. So, it seems like you've done the best that you can. And if you can even improve that based on what you've heard today, that would be wonderful. But, you know, go for it. So, >> I have one question. Okay. >> Um, with the new school system and getting in and out is being an issue and this is a highly populated group that will be residing right across the opening to the school. Has it been this has this been into consideration? You mean the fact that they can't figure out how the road's going to work with all the cars that are going to come in to go to the school and where they haven't been planned for the on street parking yet? >> Yeah. >> Really good question >> because that that street is not too wide. And last night I was on my way to town and I especially tried to look at a closer uh distance where this new site is going to be and I said, "Wow, is this going to create a big issue?" I >> think the there you may already be familiar with this, Sarin, but the Southeast Street is kind of like a little side but parallel street. >> It's got a service road there. >> Yeah. And there's a commons, you know, in between, you know, open space, you know, tree to open space. >> Yes. Yes. >> There. So, I think most of the people, you know, that are looking to access the school will be out on that main that main road. You know, there I don't think there's likely that many people are going to travel down this little side ancillular road. >> They have not decided what they're doing with that at all because they can't figure out how to make the traffic go. And they were going to take away part of the I mean Ian might know the answer to more of this, but they were thinking of taking away some of that green space to increase the traffic flow. They were thinking of making that um little service road um go one way. They I mean they haven't made a decision because it's an incredibly difficult site for traffic and they didn't consider that when they built the school. So, um, using that little service road for on street parking for the people who are going to not be able to park for this building. >> I don't know if you can even assume they're going to be able to do that because the town [clears throat] hasn't made a decision yet about how they're going to get the cars through there. >> That's right. Well, I mean, all I would say at this point is we have a motion on the floor and and and the traffic issue is is way beyond this >> that's true >> particular discussion. >> It just seems like another thing that that didn't get fully considered. Anyway, um [clears throat] we have a motion on the floor about their request for variance. So, all in favor of granting the variance to make um an alternate mean to get into that particular entrance, say yes. Yes. >> Yes. >> I hear two. >> Yes. >> Yes. Three. Four. >> Cody. >> Cody left us at noon. >> Oh, okay. So, that's five. I'll be five. So, you have your variance. Um, we can't give you a variance, but we're not going to object to your request for variance. Um, other things that have nothing to do with you. [laughter] Yeah. Um but um yeah, I mean I think I think it's a great idea and I'm I'm sure that we need the housing. Um I'm really concerned about the cars. >> Anyway, >> as a person who doesn't drive one myself, this is not about me. >> [laughter] >> So, just be because I'm sorry to interrupt, but since you're um this is your first time um coming before the commission, typically what we'll do is there'll be I'll uh draft a short letter uh on behalf of the commission and I'll email it to you to submit with your um MAB application materials. Um, and um, I I'll try to get that out to you tomorrow because I will be out of the office on Wednesday on Thursday. >> Okay. Thanks, Pamela. >> Thank you so much. >> And thanks to all of you for the uh, the thorough discussion. You know, it's good to have these discussions uh, you know, to help us all grow in our thinking around uh, accessibility uh, and and your support for the project. We appreciate it. >> Okay. I'd love to see it when it's done. I mean, I'm sure it's going to be pretty cool. I'm sure the design will be cool. And it's great that people are going to have a place to live that's pretty near town. >> Yeah. >> Too bad the PVTA isn't going to really make it easy for them. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you for being here. >> Thanks so much, everyone. >> Bye. >> Bye. Thank you. >> Okay. Ian, do you want to talk about the parking commission? um where the status of that is. >> Sure. So, uh for the most part, um so far we've we've been doing uh ways to to m figure out how best to make the commission work in the first couple meetings. um and like the the function of of the commission and and streamlining it uh to uh have citizen comment come in. Um the in in terms of the traffic around the school, that is something that a a subcommittee of of the traffic commission has been um focused on uh this past month and they're going to be presenting on it uh tomorrow. Um, and I I can uh forward that to um Pamela to to send out to the the uh commission after or the committee after sorry, we're a commission now to the commission after uh tomorrow's meeting. Um I was just going to pull up uh any further things that were uh on discussion for tomorrow's agenda. Um so yeah, we'll we'll have a report tomorrow uh from the subcommittee on on the plan for traffic uh uh when Amethyst Brook Amethyst Brookke schools opens. Um and uh there's been a request from uh someone around I I don't think this affects our commission too too much u but it's parking rules at Kendrick Park um because apparently a lot of uh students have been parking there and it's been making it difficult for um families, parents with with kids to park at at the park um to get their kids there. I I don't think it affects handic disabled parking one way or the other. Um >> do you know that they're students or are they people who live in those apartments across the street that have no parking? >> That's a good question. Uh and I will ask. Um but that [laughter] that I'm I'm only using the framing of >> Yeah. >> And a lot of them are students. Yeah, I'm only using the frame mail the framing of the email that was sent to the commission. Um, so there'll be discussion on that tomorrow. Um, >> can you also please bring up that the the presentation we just heard assumes that that uh service road that runs parallel to Southeast Street there is going to be available for on street parking for the because there are 31 units there with 14 spaces two of which are accessible spaces. So, 12 parking spaces for 29 units, >> which means more than half of the units don't have parking. And they assume that they're going to park on that service road, which means that the service road isn't going to be terribly available for their parking. I mean, for their uh plan of traffic around that intersection. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know if those two groups have been speaking to each other. >> So, I think it's >> Yeah, I don't know either. I'll I'll bring but I'll bring that up. Yeah, please do >> because um I I'd love to know who's parking in Kendrick Park because there's been a lot of housing built there that has no parking and just because somebody wants to ma, you know, wave a magic wand and say nobody's going to have cars, you know, we're all going to be, you know, echofriendly and we're not going to drive cars and everyone's going to take electric buses. Um that's really not what's happening. >> Yeah. Um, and I believe that's it. There's there's um a a West Street crosswalk at Mount Holio Drive that's on the agenda. Um, I don't have further information about that right now. Um, but >> Okay. So, uh, that's right near No, that's north of Pomeroy, >> right? Right. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, if they're going to put a crosswalk, >> sorry, I'm I'm just remembering there was a a brief discussion of it in either May or June. Um, and what it is is that there is no crosswalk. Um, right. There's like a culde-sac that comes out to the main road. Um, and there's a bunch of kids, small small children that live in that neighborhood. Um and and they're wanting to make it safer um >> to cross West Street. >> To cross West Street. Yeah. >> So if they're putting a crosswalk in it, they need to put rapid flashing beacons at the crosswalk. >> Otherwise, it's not safer, >> right? So, I mean, I'm all for it, but just to put in a crosswalk without without rapid flashing beacons with a light, you know, with a button, it doesn't make it safer. >> Yep. Yep. Um, >> boy, this is really This is great that you're on this commission. >> Well, >> um, no, it is. It's great. >> No, I I I mean, it is. Unfortunately, I have another piece of news that's new within the past 48 hours. Um, I have just accepted a job um that will that will mean that my schedule won't allow me to stay on this commission anymore starting in September. >> Oh. Um, my I think my term was going until uh May or or um or next spring, but unfortunately I'm going to have this this will have to be my next my my last meeting >> on this committee on this commission >> on on this commission. Yeah. >> You mean with us? >> Yeah. >> Oh, you're not talking about the parking. Okay. I was >> misunderstanding both. I I can go to I can go to tomorrow's meeting and and send a a write up. Um but unfortunately I have to step down from from this meet this commission. >> Oh >> well I'm sorry about that. >> Congratulations on your new job though. >> Yeah. Congratulations definitely on the job. >> Okay. >> Oh let me interrupt for a second. Um, Ian, would you please put that in an email to the town manager? >> Yes. >> Officially resigning. >> And as soon as you're able to do that, then I can um speak with Angela and the town manager about um looking for someone to join. >> Okay. >> The commission. >> Okay. Um so I'll CC you on on the email that I send. >> That would be great. Yeah. >> Great. Oh, well, congratulations. Getting a job is huge and it's much more important than doing this because you got to pay your bills and that's great. I'm I'm glad for you. >> Um, >> we'll miss you in your perspective. You always important things that the rest of us >> looking agreed. Well, we'll definitely miss you. >> Okay. So, we're we're gonna be Ianless. >> That's we have to deal with that. Okay. Um, is somebody interested in taking his place on the transportation and parking? >> I I don't know what the commitment is. >> What is it, Ian? Um, it's one meeting a month. Um, at this point it's I think the second Wednesday of the month um uh for two hours and I think it's it's on Zoom these days. >> What was the last thing you said? >> Uh it's it's on Zoom currently. The first two meetings had been uh in person. Okay. >> And >> would you do it, Jim, >> in either of the meetings? >> Um 5 to 7, sometimes 4:30 to uh 6:30 um on on those second Wednesdays of the month. Well, if there aren't any other volunteers, [laughter] I will try and do it. >> I would really appreciate it. I think we need to be represented there. >> Well, there's no question about that. It's be nice. The representative wasn't me, you know, but [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, well, I could split it with you. I mean, I agreed to be an alternate on well, four to I have orchestra some Wednesdays. Um, but I could go to some of them. >> Okay, we can work that out then, >> maybe. But yeah. All right. Oh, this is being Ianless is a new one on me. Okay. I'm I'm really glad. Are you want to tell us what job you got? >> Um, I will be at the at the post office. Um, at the the Ammeris post office. >> Oh, cool. Oh, very nice. >> Excellent. >> Yeah. >> No, that's good. With a >> Which one? The University or the center of town? >> Uh, not sure. I think it's since it's a starting position, it'll be wherever and whenever they need me. >> That's No, that's good because that's a federal job. Or is it not a federal job? I think it's still >> It is. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully still. Okay. All right. Well, um, best. Are you not coming again? This is it for you? >> Uh, yeah. This will have to be my last my last. >> Okay. Do we have to have a per We have to have a virtual cupcake for you. So, [laughter] we have Thank you. We have a virtual cupcake of thank you for you. >> Thank you. And good luck. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> So, my I'm gonna interrupt just for a second. So, it's uh 12:36. >> I know we got to >> And Rob Moore has been waiting patiently. >> Okay, that's where we were going to go. >> So, I I think there are a number of things on the agenda that he was going to address. >> Okay, Rob. Sorry about that. >> Oh, no problem. I've been keeping busy here. Hi, everyone. So um there was a small list of things that were mentioned in an email when asked to attend the meeting. Uh doers work from that you know one was the an update on the mod grant with >> Mson. >> Uh so that project is near completion. Uh all of the concrete work has been completed. The controls have been installed on the doors and we have been just been waiting this last um uh little bit for the fabrication of handrails and those are uh scheduled to be installed tomorrow. Uh so following that installation, there's a a couple of days over the next uh week and a half or so where uh final trim, paint, and uh the actual button for the door opener gets installed. So certainly by the end of the month, we expect that project to be uh all done. >> Okay. >> Were you expanding? >> Did you talk to them? >> Did it end up costing the whole 150? >> No. And we were I I think two questions there. It didn't it didn't uh cost the full amount and we were not able to add to the scope. uh there just wasn't time to get that together and the contractor wasn't uh able to commit to addition any level of additional work besides what we had originally uh in contract there. >> Okay. Did you talk to them about the um stairway to the basement where the bathrooms are? >> No. So that we is that's something that we need to address as a different project, a separate project starting with design work and uh so I've looked at it uh our facilities manager Jeremiah Llan has looked at it and we think that there might be uh for longer term solution there might be a better option to uh put the lift in a different pl put a lift in a different place uh a more uh vertical lift one similar to if you're familiar with the North Ammerst Library lift. that was installed a few years ago, one of that style uh rather than uh you incline chairlift on the stairway. So, that's going to be a project that we would have to look at uh in a future year for design and and possible construction. >> Where would that vertical lift go? We think it'd go right off the stage off, you know, pretty much opposite of the hallway from the top of the stair uh where it would uh go down to the lower level uh right outside of the large the the activity room down there and the the hallway that leads to the restrooms. >> Sorry, Mike. Mike, >> we think there's a good place for it. >> Where where is it going to start from the top? >> Uh pretty much right across from the top of the stair. Uh but on the opposite side of the hallway backing up against the stage >> uh where there's a little there's a little door that passes through from the great hall to the hallway that you know creates a space that isn't really usable anyway. Uh and we think there might dimensionally be enough space. There's nothing structural in the way uh anything serious that that couldn't be uh you know reworked and it it would put the bottom of the lift at a convenient location downstairs. Uh the there's a probably a reason why that chair lift is so small. You know, it could be because of its age and uh you know designs have changed since, but uh there is actually not enough headroom to install a new lift, a a newer type lift that has the right platform size and all the features uh safety features and grab bars. Uh there'd be head clearance issues uh as you go down that that stairway. It's really tight. So, um, ideally, uh, it isn't ideal to just do a swap out for a new a new unit. It wouldn't work >> without any major structural modification. >> Do you have any idea about the cost of a vertical lift? >> Off the top of my head, I do not. >> Okay. >> Now, when is are the plans for this are they going to be included in next year's MOD proposal? Hopefully. Well, that's that's a good question. What what is next year's MOD grant application going to be? There's uh probably a lot of other interests as well. Um I've heard a few things at uh Mil River uh possibilities, Grath Park, uh of course this project at the Mson. Uh so that's a decision that'll have to come uh in the in the next couple of months uh so that we can start to prepare that application. But as of right now, there hasn't been a decision made. So, it would be good if we would know the costs relative because we thought that the like if the if the lift is like less than $50,000, for example. At one time, we thought that the town capital program was going to reserve $50,000 for accessibility work, and I don't know where that is this year, but the mod grant didn't tap into that. It didn't even use any of it didn't use all the other grant. So it would be good to know the cost relative potential costs >> of of the vertical lift versus >> any other projects that you're really seriously considering so we could know what we should ask for. >> Right. So I mean I could tell you it's it's much more than $50,000. So that you know the the inclined lift is beyond $50,000. Uh so a vertical lift would be even more uh you know but there's a lot to it with taking into account the u you know the modifications to the building. Uh architectural design will be more than $50,000 for for that type of a project. So um you know that is where we really have to start is you know funding design work for these projects and that's when we get into real cost estimating and have a better idea of what the project cost would be >> uh when we move forward with the applications. the MOD grant does uh go up to $250,000 now. So, it's a significant opportunity that, you know, we we just need to find the right project that we can be prepared for and >> right >> uh also complete on on their schedule. So, as you know, they they make award second third week in December and expect a uh completion date by June 30th, which is really really a struggle with our procurement requirements and just contractor performance. A question comes to mind, >> a question comes to my mind. Um, the only way, the only reason why stairless is important is for people with disabilities to be able to go to the bathrooms downstairs. So, is there any place rather than trying to find that space for a vertical lift, just put one unit of accessible bathroom in the upper floor, main floor, and eliminate the need for the vertical, I mean vertical or horizontal or uh slanting lift, the stair lift. Yeah, I think we'd still have to leave the ver the inclined lift in place. We we we wouldn't we shouldn't remove it even if we install a a bathroom on the first floor. Yeah. >> Uh so I think that would always remain and it's possible that the space that I'm talking about where the lift would be placed may be the only location that a restroom could fit. But you know again haven't haven't looked at the the dimensions to that degree and clearances. Um even a single user restroom is pretty large. >> Uh and the only the only other space on the floor is that uh office all the way to the south corner uh next to the great hall that I I don't think uh it'll be you know desirable to eliminate that space. I think it's the only other um you know original room to the building you know that's available for any other use other than the great hall and of course a library. >> So I guess we've had two questions. We need we need to know what it would cost to do either one of those projects. >> Um and I guess the Mill River project about the bathroom I think is even more money than we're talking about for this. So, I've looked at I looked at the uh Mil River bathrooms and the uh changing rooms uh the bath house a couple of months ago. Uh they are very large projects. So, there they're you know I it's the first time I had seen uh those spaces and uh there isn't you know a small job to go in there and just make improvements. The entire the entire building needs to be remodeled uh on the interior to create proper accessible restrooms and uh showering, changing locker areas, all of that um is there's just uh too many uh areas that need to be addressed. So, if it's more than $100,000 or 30% of the cost of that building, you have to make the whole building accessible. But if it isn't more than 30% of the cost, you don't have to make it all accessible at once. >> Yeah. The $100,000 trigger is for the entrance and the It's not in the restroom. It's not the whole building. The 30% trigger is for the whole building. >> Right. >> Right. So anyway, I that's So what you're saying is that's not going to be as feasible for an MOD grant as Mson. >> Probably not because it is it is um the the scope is quite large. I mean, it's possible we could, you know, we could work on one bathroom, but you know, we you end up losing fixtures, if you're not able to redefine the space, if you're not looking at the building as a whole. uh taking one space at a time would probably not um you know not be the best outcome for the building. But, you know, when I looked at it, it isn't just like, you know, go in there, fix a threshold, put up guard hand, uh, grab bars, you know, the sinks are in the wrong places, the toilets are too close to each others. As, you know, as you go through the list within a toilet room, everything everything is off. >> Uh, it needs to be addressed. So, it it it makes it a very u much more involved project. So, I guess knowing ballpark how much that would be because we should maybe put it on the capital planning list for them to think about what year they're going to be able to do it. >> Yeah. I think again I mean for us to to really approach these projects in any reasonable way we need to start with committing design money and then >> you know have a project with a cost estimate a scope of work and then then start to talk about capital uh the capital money is so uh limited you know the the entire facilities capital fund this year $750,000 almost all of that is going to a roof project we have a we have a list of roof projects, HVAC projects, and all of them exceed a million dollars. So, you know, the the ability to do a 200 $300,000 project um you know, has to be very well planned out for and and supported because it it it's unlikely to just get worked into a capital a normal capital. there's something that we need to do in order to have those um plans the design studies >> design >> well I mean priorit I think everyone prioritizing the projects is helpful uh you know if we come to the end of the year and have some capital money left over we can we can certainly look at using that to start design work that's been our approach with HVAC and roofs to use that money to get get a queue of projects lined up. Uh so we can definitely consider that. Uh the only accessible work we have this year going on with capital money is at the banks. Uh so that's you know that's a commitment that we've made through capital funds to supplement the project that it was funded uh for the you know the systems upgrades and the senior center upgrades. Uh and that's something that's will be ongoing through the rest of the year into the spring to completion for that project. Um but right now we don't know, you know, what excess funds we'll have available till we get to the end of uh the big project is the town hall roof project which is taking m taking multiple years of capital money to complete. >> Okay. So is there something that we need to do? Well, >> not unless you have a funding source. Sorry. >> No, no, but I mean, is there a vote we need to take that would say we, you know, if you have extra extra money, we would, you know, I mean, you know, we're having this conversation, but there are many other very legitimate uses for the money. So, I guess the question is how do we get in the queue? >> Well, oh, go ahead, Sarah. Uh could there be uh an priority that is not really in a wish list but a requirement ADA requirement the accessible bathroom in the uh Mil River that is ADA requirement and then the one at Monson library is also an ADA requirement you know so couldn't there be a priority is to get apply for MOD funding for next year with those two design projects to be handled because they are requirements. It's not like part of a roof is not really an ADA requirement. It's just a building improvement, right? >> So, you're saying next year maybe we should ask MOD for design money for Mil River and for Mson >> MOD will not give design money. So I confir I confirmed that this year again um you know it' been a few years since we asked that. So that that is out of the question. So we need >> shovel ready. >> We need another source of uh funds for design money and and at this moment all we have is whatever remaining uh excess capital we might have at the end of the year uh to go to the to prepare for a future project like that. I think there's $1,200 in our bank account, you know. Yeah. Design not even >> we need to start giving a lot more parking fines. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And you know I do know that there are other improvements that um you know could be handled design could be handled in-house at Mil River. Uh the engineering department uh is looking at more connectivity to the bath house from the parking area um and making improvements to the drop off area from the you know around the culde-sac the circle in front of the building. Uh there was also interest in upgrading the waiting pool uh making that more accessible or turning it into some other type of water feature instead of a waiting pool. So there you know there are other interests for the the mod grant and there might be you know capability inhouse for some of those to to be designed uh from the engineering team. So we're you know those are conversations that will continue uh on the staff side you know ultimately the town manager through and the assistant town manager are the ones that make the final decision on which project we move forward on and commit funds or time to. But um you know I guess you know as this group keeps talking about them you know your top one or two projects you know is always going to be good to know so that we have that in mind. >> Okay. All right. Are those We sort of asked you questions so you didn't go through the list as you intended is did we hit everything? >> I I think the only thing that was on the list was a question you might have had about Wildwood. >> Oh yeah. Why are they why is there money being set aside for accessibility? >> So, we had asked for a off uh you know cycle appropriation as we're taking over the building September 1st. >> Yeah. >> And you may know that the recck department was recently relocated there. >> Yeah. >> From the middle school. And there when I went through and and was looking at setting up their space, I noticed that there is not there was not good accessibility uh for the public and advised that they make other arrangements to greet the public rather than having them come into the building uh from a you know it's a basically an end of the building entrance. Uh deteriorated parking areas, very long routes. So there there really wasn't a good accessible path to get into the space. And then when we got into the building, uh the doorways, they're just classroom spaces that are being utilized, are very narrow, uh don't have clearances and will require either push button or some other uh alteration to to make make them better accessible to the public. So, you know, I had raised that and asked, you know, when they were asking for uh operating money, throw in a little bit of capital money so that we can do some work to the building to make it uh better for the recck department's use. In the meantime, you know, this is, you know, they've they've been there now a little over a month or month and a half. Uh, you know, they have to decide if they're going to be there and for under what term. it could be very short-term uh that they may be relocated and not staying there uh and the building not utilized at all for public space uh or there could be that or other public space in the building made available. So, I'm still waiting for information on that, but the purpose of the request was to make sure we can make some upgrades um to have those spaces available to the public. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. And please keep us informed if there's anything that has to do with us. So far there isn't. >> Okay. >> Thank you so much for your um time and for sitting there through all that other discuss. >> Yeah. I do have one one last thing quickly. Um the bang months ago a meeting I think Myra you might have asked when we got to signage at the Bangs project that you wanted to be uh given a presentation. Is that still the case? So we're we're just kicking off uh review of uh both wayfinding and uh room space identification signage for the building. Um it's relatively small project there. It isn't a big scope. Uh and it's something that we'll probably build on in in future years with our facilities staff. But um I just wanted to ask >> I just thought it would be useful for some low vision people to be involved in that choice. At the moment this committee doesn't have any low vision people. Um but um maybe maybe somebody like Elise would be willing to um look at at the signage issues. For me, it would just be is there going to be tactile signage on the, you know, room numbers and stuff like that. You're going to do that, right? any any room identification sign we put up will uh wayfinding and directory sign won't have that >> uh you know exterior wayfinding sign and yeah if you had if there was you know a person you know that wanted to join >> I just send a note to Elise link um because she's the only low vision person right now that I can think of who lives in Ammerst who um might be she would be a person who would want the signage to be as useful as it could be, >> okay? Because we're happy to add somebody to a, you know, design meeting with the OPM and our designer as we finalize that. But we're we're we are at the beginning, but if we had a contact, we'll reach out. >> That's great. I will write to her. She's no longer on this committee, but um she could be useful to you, I think. >> Good. >> And you could be useful to her. Okay. Thank you very much for everything today. >> Could I ask one more question to to Rob? And he may well not have the answer. I mean, right now the basement of Mson is used for storage from Jones Library. Uh, you know, assuming that ever changes, you know, and it gets cleared out, were there plans to use that basement for any other purposes? >> Yeah, that space is heavily uh used. It's it it, you know, both spaces in the months in the great hall and the lower level are um regularly reserved for various uh outside groups to use. um you know daily or hourly rental. Uh so when the project at the Jones is finished in you know April, May, whenever it is and all those books are taken back out, we expect that that space to be available again through our room room reservation program. >> So that's another incentive to get a vertical lift there if it's possible and the money's around then. >> Yeah. Communicating between the build the the levels, you know, right now is only really done well from the exterior. >> Yeah. uh with the ramp that we or the walkway that we installed five or six years ago. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you, Rob. >> Thank you, >> Pamela. I just looked through the agenda. The only thing we might need to do is has to do with the um complaint, the grievance. >> Um is there anything we need to know? So, I um I received and I uh I think I shared I don't know if I shared it with the entire group, but there are Ammerst residents who filed a basically an ADA complaint against the town um alleging that the town had failed to follow um improvements to the roadway and sidewalks in their neighborhood and that it was causing um issues that would impact mobility. for um persons with disabilities. Um I I'm in my I I wear many hats and so one of my hats is that I am the 504 ADA coordinator for the town and was responsible for receiving the complaint and responding to it. So in that role I did I'll just call it a desk assessment of the complaint. Um, I spoke with both um Rob Moira and uh Wood Guilford about the specific allegations um in the complaint and then wrote a written response um back to the complaintants. They have 30 days and I think they're probably have about maybe at least two weeks uh if uh remaining to re to uh appeal my findings to the town manager. And um so there were three uh allegations in the complaint. Um, uh, two of which I would say that I, uh, are maybe a little bit premature, like the one of the roadways that they're complaining about is scheduled to be improved um, in the coming year. And so, at the time that the complaint came in, there was actually an open bid for improvement on that road. So, the town just has not had an opportunity to address it. Um, one of their complaints, um, was that the town has failed to follow its own ADA transition plan. And that's true. Um, you know, it's sort of an an odd process in that, you know, I can review the complaint. I can sort of come to some conclusions, but I don't have the power to dictate or mandate that people do things. And the complainants also responded and complained to them um to mod and the mod response was to um basically I'm you know I'm using my own words as a summary basically mod said wait and give the town an opportunity to address the conditions with the roads and they did share with the town and and all which means that Guilford is aware of what the requirements are for um the surfacing of the sidewalks and crosswalks in that area. Uh it's likely that there will be some improvements or there will be some improvements um to the roads in question. Uh, I think there's a a debate between the complainants and the town about whether the type of improvement that Guilford has uh has contracted for are sufficient. And I ultimately I think either the complainants will um have to accept sort of the the design that the town has uh you know has proposed or that they might seek additional uh support from mod or you know another federal agency that would would decide on the issue. Uh but you know, I I think their complaints obviously are valid. They've complained um uh for a long period of time to lots of different people to to DPW, to the town manager's office, to town council about the conditions of the roadways and sidewalks in their neighborhood. Um and they haven't got been addressed. you know, quite frankly, the the problem is that the town has um you know, multiple projects that they need to do and don't have the funds to do it. This particular road is though um projected or is in a series of roadway projections that the town is um scheduled to address this year. So, that's sort of where that stands. And I don't I um I have not I haven't been if they've decided to appeal to the town manager. I haven't been a made aware of that. >> Okay. >> For those folks uh for taking matters into their own hands. That's really good. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, that could have happened from any neighborhood anywhere in this town. >> Right. Exactly. >> And I'm not even sure that their neighborhood is anywhere near the worst. So, uh, you know, good for them. >> I do have an, um, Sarin had specifically written to ask about whether Guilford would, uh, attend this meeting to address the issue of whether there was a sensory light or a motion activated light placed beown behind town hall. Um and so I uh Guilford was not able to attend this meeting and would not be able to attend the meeting in September. However, when I um communicated with him by email, he said that that motion uh sensor like a motion sensory light um or motion activated light or sensory light would um behind town hall would be under the purview of facilities. So Jeremiah a plan and he was going to go back to double check to see if he had actually forwarded the request to Jeremiah. So that just happened in the last couple of days. I haven't had a chance to reach out to Jeremiah, but um I did follow through to ask about um um your request. So I think what would be the next step would be for me to invite Jeremiah to the September meeting. >> Yeah. I remember Gilford said, "No big deal. That can be done." So, >> Right. Right. Yeah. I I I think he was probably going, "No big deal. That can be done." Because he knew it wasn't going to be his responsibility to [laughter] to do. So, >> well, let's not put that in the minutes. [laughter] >> No, that shouldn't go in the minute. Um, all right. So, there was just um a little update on July. We had two events. Pamela and I went both to both of them. Um I I Pamela, I don't know if you went to the East Hampton or Northampton events. I did not. Did anyone? >> No. No, I >> No. Okay. So, our two events were pretty cool. There were 15 little kids. She read three stories. It was great. Tori and Juan were there and they talked to the little kids and then on Monday they talked uh Monday at Mil River, they talked about their experiences. you've already received something about that, I guess. Um, they were fabulous and there was maybe 30 people there, something like that. Um, and um, I think it was a really cool thing to do and I'm really grateful to them and we sent them an honorarium and >> um, you know, and so that's um, I think it was a really good thing to do >> and there was a nice article in the paper too. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Which was wonderful. and um meeting the moment. It was a thing by the Massachusetts Commission on the status of persons with disabilities. They had a meeting in Western Mass. Pamela and I went in July 14th and there were a number of people who spoke. Um there are a number of people on the commission um who listened, a lot of people who said things that really didn't give enough time to people who really had important things to say. Um but there were some incredibly heartbreaking stories. Um and there were um you know there were people just basically asked the comm told the commission what they needed to pay attention to for people with disabilities. And um afterward I sent I believe I sent you a copy of the letter that I put in public testimony about transportation. What I said was um you know I think you have it right. Did you all have it? >> Yeah, I do have the letter. Would you like me to send it out to the >> Well, you can send it out. I mean, quite frankly, some of the things they heard are so much more important than that. I basically people are homeless and uh it it's horrifying. Um and the way that they've been treated by uh landlords, municipalities, every it's just horrendous. Anyway, um so that was interesting. And in 5 minutes I am going to go to a meeting and this is an issue. It's going to come up. Um I am going to um something planned. It's in Northampton Senior Center by the state. They're doing them all over the state with excessive accessible voting machines. There are several companies that would like to provide accessible voting equipment. Um because the automark that I love that everybody who's blind loves are they are um faltering because of age and the state purchased them all way back and every town had them and every town got what they needed and every blind person who wanted to vote that way got to vote independently and privately. The rumor has it that the state is not interested in doing that this time. They want every town to pick amongst the ones that are being presented um or that might be approved by the state of the ones that are being presented. And you know this that the state isn't going to get involved. This town's going to have to pay for it. And guess what? The town is going to buy the cheapest option that they can get away with and it's going to be terrible. So, I think there is going to be a movement um to get the state to take this over and to make sure that everyone has the right to vote accessibly, independently, and privately, which some of what they have uh I'll let you know next month, but some of what there is is a little piece of paper that you put into a Yeah. Well, the the point of it is you want the ballot to look like everybody else's ballot when it comes out of the machine. And a lot of these don't produce that. So then you can tell if you have three people in your town who use accessible voting um because you're a little town um you can tell how those people voted. It's not private. So um there is it's going to come up. It's going to be an issue, but I'm going right now to Northampton Senior Center to examine the equipment and then I'll let you know more about it. >> Great. >> Okay. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? >> Oh, no. Wait. Is there anybody here for public comment? >> There is not. >> Okay, then I need a motion to adjurnn. >> Well, this has been a lot of fun, but I I saw >> [laughter] >> You're so moved. >> I'll I'll second it. >> That's your That's your final official act, Egan. Ian, >> it is. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, best of luck again with your new job. We're very sorry to see you go. Oh, by the way, the librarian was wearing a mask. >> Okay. >> There were masks. >> I was I I actually had a a a virus that weekend, so I it was good that I was not there. Okay. >> Um, but I'm sorry I wasn't able to come. >> Well, she did wear a mask. She does model that. There are masks on the table. I think u she said that there were masks on the table. Um, and um so I just wanted you to know that. I forgot to say that earlier. Okay. I need a second on the um >> Oh, you did second it. That was it. [clears throat] >> Yeah, that does need seconding. >> All in favor of adjournment, >> say I. I. I >> all opposed. We are adjourned until September 8th. Is that right? I believe that's right. Yes. September 8th. >> Yes. September 8th is the next meeting day. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Thank you very much everybody. Have a great month. You >> too. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. >> Bye.