Church & Ministry Administration | Lecture 10 : BC310-CMA-20260910

Okay, recording is on. Welcome everyone to our class on church and ministry administration. Oh, somebody there. Oh, what happened? Sorry. And I just say something. Okay. Anyway, let's pray and uh we will get started. Who has the mic? Please pray and we will start. >> Thank you Lord. Thank you Jesus. Lord this wonderful time that you given us Lord Jesus. Lord I submit this server in your mighty hands Lord Jesus. Lord Lord whatever we are studying Lord. Lord that we have to able to understand Lord. Holy Spirit you help us Lord open our hearts and minds Lord I submit pastor in your mighty hands Lord in Jesus name I pray. Amen. >> Amen. All right. [snorts] Um so yesterday we went through a lesson on um policy guidelines and standards. So it's important for us you know as a church or a Christian organization to have clear policies on various situations uh guidelines standards in various um aspects of the ministry and have it in writing as far as possible at least from a city perspective we can do it and we know that okay in a village small context yet may not be the they they work in a city but even there if it is clarified to the people then everybody's on in agreement right [snorts] so we covered that now any questions on that any thoughts on that before we move to our next lesson yes >> ah what would you say yeah >> I was thinking about it And something that I've learned is God works through practical ways as well. So as he honors the decisions that the leader has made in the church >> and to say that hey >> yes we understand that we're it's important to be spiritled but everyone would be at peace with that situation but at the same time >> it's important to follow practical >> rules that have been established by the church and God can work through that and soften the hearts of the people involved to make that decision if it works. spirit. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. just recognizing that there is value there's a practical value in why a certain policy a certain guideline is put you know [clears throat] it's for everybody's good actually that's where we put these things you know um and actually some areas uh it becomes very necessary for the safety of the people also like especially like example children's church right we have to have certain policies uh strict policy, you know, uh we we have to make sure that the kind the people we put in charge of our children, they will treat the children well, protect the children, those things, you know, we have to have those in every area. We have to have these policies to make sure we all work well together. Okay. Uh good. Let's move forward to our next lesson which I just shared with um with us today in the PDF. I'll share it online here. Did I turn on the recording? I forgot. One minute. Let me just check. I Yeah, recording is on. So, let me share the PDF. Um so we now go to another aspect of um church and ministry administration which is in terms of operations we should have clear systems and process in place for so many things how something works what is the pro process involved right so for example and this might be a little silly example but we All know blending machine. If you put tomato, turn the blender on, you'll get tomato juice, right? Blend it in. It works the same way every time. Not like Monday you put tomato and you press it, it'll give you, you know, don't trying to be funny, but give you some something different. No, it blends in. It works the same way. So it's, you know, whatever you put in, you'll get the same result. So in the organization, we need to have these systems and process in place so that we keep getting the same result consistently. you know yeah there may be times when there is no power or the blender has broken down or something but that is unusual otherwise normal cases you'll have the same result all the time so simple example and we will talk about this a little later on suppose um a book request comes somebody from somewhere in India [snorts] sends email with saying please send me uh this three books in English. This is my address. We should have a system in place here in APC that that once a book request comes to us by email within reasonable time say 2 days 3 days whatever the pract say you know maybe within a week's time right it should happen all the time it's not like once one book request comes after two months I get it another time after one year oh yeah I sent I sent it after one or that will not be good, right? Especially on the other side when people are sending in requests, they don't know when you'll get the book. They might get it after one year or after 6 months. That is not it should be like hey you send a request to them you'll get it within two weeks right it's it's repeatable you know you'll get it you know unless there is some major disruption in uh delivery services or something everything being normal you send an email with the request they will send it to you within two weeks it'll reach you like that it should be repeatable but for us to make that happen we need to have proper system and process in place here on our side. I'm just giving one example of book request. Um but like that so many areas Sunday morning we say every tell everybody service starts at 8:00. They shouldn't think hey we don't know what time service will start. Some days it may start 7:30 some days it may start 8:30. We don't know. I remember once there was a big announcement in one magazine. Uh it was like for a a prayer calling all the pastors to pray. I was very excited. Oh, we all going to pray. So I kept that day free. It said we're going to start at 10:00 in this auditorium. Okay. I planned my day. I'm going to go pray with all the pastors in the city because I saw this an advertisement. Uh the church I kind of kind of knew. I don't know them personally but those days. So I went very excited 9:45 went parked the car it's going to start at 10:00 so I'll go auditori not open only I was outside said I come to the right place your announcement says today is calling all pastors to pray this auditorium 9:30 I mean 10:00 I'm here what happened uh So I called the number I said uh that is the church who hosting I called the so I said they said I saw this announcement here is it happening or not say yeah yeah it's happening happening when 1 hour will come we'll come wait you wait there how will I wait there not even knowing if they don't start at 10 how will I know they start at 11 so I just left there I don't know but it was a bad experience right because uh no system, no process in place and it was a big church meaning it was like those days it must have been 6,000 people charged. So they have no excuse saying uh we didn't have anybody to be there. It's a big church. It was big church now. So those days it was very big. Yeah. So they had no excuse that oh we don't have people to go get the hall ready this that. No we just didn't have a system and process in place. But one nice big announcement came and uh so I was a little disappointed. I just went back. But that that's an example where if we don't as a church or a ministry we're not doing our work our system um properly our processes properly uh it impacts other people can impact uh in the ministry itself and within I'm just giving you example here within the organization there are many ministry areas right we have and Um within the ministrator there are many different systems happening system processes and um uh also different ministrators will have to collaborate with each other. In an example, we have um um uh outreach churches. That means churches around the country and uh we have uh you know a person who's who's like a field coordinator meaning he goes uh so we also you know starting new churches. So he'll meet uh these these pastors are going to start the church etc. or he will travel meet other pastors and all that. So there that is he he reports to Shika. So um it's a missions work but and the goal is church planting to help the pastors plant the churches all of that but even though that is missions work when he goes he will also speak to them about hey we have a Bible college if you have people who need to be trained you can send them there and he'll also tell them oh we also have free books If you want free books uh for your own spiritual help or you want to give to your congregation, we can send it to you. That means missions work. Yeah, we are focusing on church planting but at the same time we are connecting with all other ministries that can serve the people right. We're not just saying oh he'll only do missions but because Bible college will help the people the books will help the people so we want to help them in every possible way so the different ministries will also have to work together right so if he if that pastor there says yeah I want to send three students to your Bible college he has to connect immediately here they have to respond and they have to help them you know with the whole admission process all of that. So, so this the ministry itself even though I'm sorry in the organization even though we have different ministries ministries also have to be able to coordinate with each other very well to serve the people properly right so for that also we need good systems and processes in place right so how do we do that and how do we keep on improving right it it doesn't mean that one time you have it in place it'll be there forever like you have to keep on improving you keep changing the times also are changing and we have to uh think so uh that's what we want to uh talk about right so let's look at uh on page this is on page 22 uh accounting or accounting department so in within accounting or finance there are so many different things that happen you know like I mentioned the other day of recounting but that's not just that's only one part then there a deposit money has to be deposited or nowadays very nice we can have uh people do uh contribute electronically meaning through online bank so that amount of deposit has reduced right and it's a good thing right uh then there is purchases you know again accounting responsible you have to buy things by college you have to buy so many things every ministry so many things have to be bought right so accounting has to pay there are expense claims that means if a pastor or anybody a staff member they spend their own money for something they get it reimbursed like suppose they for whatever some thing they need they dispend it they pay salaries have to be paid our vendors have to be paid the people who are providing our service we have to make payments to There has to be reporting, budgeting that means we have to know where money is coming, where it's going. We have to look at the report. So, so all these things are happening under accounting department. So there are many things for each of this there are systems and process in place. Okay, I'll just explain a few things. So like we said offer tree counting I explained to you last time uh our rule is uh whenever offering must be counted in the venue itself in the venue. So I'll tell you the process and system process we put in place but how sometimes in spite of it things can go wrong. I'll give you examples right. So our our system process as far as offer offer recounting is it must be done in the place where the where you collected it must be done in a public space that means the people should there should be people who can see you right um yes sometimes people in some places they'll take it in a closed room but if you take it in a closed room there should be more than one person there otherwise if it's only one pe one person or two people they could be in agreement and they'll do something we won't know. It is in a closed room. Nobody else is seeing. So it's better to have it in a space where a lot of people are around. People are seeing. So there is less chance of anybody wanting to do you know to mishandle the money. Right? So it should be counted in the venue. It should be counted in a place where people can see. Um then uh it's always done by a group of people not one person right preferably more than two people are sitting and counting the money at the same time. So this is thing right and then uh it is all put into different denominations. It's written in a notebook two people sign is written on the cover the envelope. So money is put in the cover that is also sealed and signed and that envelope is sent to the church office. This is the thing and in some places there CCTV also is watching you know we said no in so this is our system and process why we are doing this because we don't want anybody to mishandle the money offering because people are giving the money okay so we have this and we've been followers this for a long time but in spite of it things went wrong so one example, we were in a different this happened in central. We were in a different auditorium uh u um not not this one but the boys high school auditor and there was one person uh a lady was with us for a long time. She was and and because she had been with us for a long time, the people who joined the offer team little later, they always used to okay, she's been here longer, so you know, let us uh like, you know, just let let her handle a thing. But uh okay so this was going on that one day we got a call from one family and those days see those days we didn't have uh uh UPI all that and uh uh also we could give online banktobank transfer but most people are still giving in the offering back those days right so people are still in that mode we hadn't shifted fully uh like nowadays uh very few people give in the offering most people are giving on directly on it is very good actually but those days I'm saying so once one family gave like they gave I think 50,000 or some amount cash they put in the thing that person had the presence of mind just to call the church office and say please I just want to make sure that I've put uh 50,000 cash uh in this denomination uh and I forget the actual details in those days but let's say you know rupees uh put it the other way I just want to make sure it has reached the office that another person of mine to call okay but because they called our accountant checked I said hey certain number and I forget what the number was like exam I'm just like 10 of these uh 500 rupees whatever the was missing. So, so we had to say now how do we find out that um the money was put in there by this family. They know they put it there but it has not reached the office. But the numbers the written numbers are okay. Are you understanding the problem? That means the cash was taken out before it was counted. So the written numbers were okay. But it is not there is amount missing because this family said we have put in 50,000 but we received the less than that 50,000 whatever that number was that they given us the denominations of that money so that was missing so that's how we know okay what what is happening and I was also very surprised because I trusted this lady and I should I am not sitting and counting that money. I said then we asked the people the other people were sitting in the counting thing. Well, what actually happened when you sat to come? They said no no no see what she does is first she takes all the B offering covers to herself. She doesn't let anybody touch it. she will open it. So that means one person is opening all the covers and then she will put the cash out and then people will count. So again we didn't don't have proof but because of this people who had called us and told us see we are put in cover with this amount of money that cover was that particular cover was missing with her then oh that means if she's having all the covers to herself before it is being put out the cash is put out for thing she has somehow managed From the time she opens the covers to putting the cash in the common table for people to count, she has somehow managed to take some money, put it in her own bag, whatever she has come up with that thing. Now we have no proof because uh you know she's done it in such a way. But I said let me call her So I called I said see we have this is what has happened we have a call from the family saying they have put so much money they won't lie about it they put so much but that so many notes did not reach the church office and we checked with the people who are doing counting they have given us shown us how this is happening so do you know anything about it can you come and meet me in the office that Was it from that day she disappeared? She left the church. You're not coming to church. She did not no response, nothing, right? And she had been had been coming to church for more than 10 years or something like that, you know? But it was a shock for us. How could somebody although we had put the you know as far as poss to sit out the sit at the back of the hall you're not in a separate room you're sitting here in kind of an open space people can see and in spite of all that she has been able to do something that this and the fact that she didn't come to see me if everything was clear she should have come it's okay everything let me what happened she can explain just disappeared from touch gone. Then that's when we saw hey we still have to improve our process. There's still some way they have been able to someone has been able to at least we know this particular incident that we had and when the moment was person was addressed so we had to tighten our process you know so I'm just giving example where if we don't have proper system and process in place these kinds of things can happen it's sad it's happening in the church you wouldn't expect it right they had uh ex uh so but you know I'm so very happy that's why we tell people if you're giving online please continue to give online so you know why we are saying that right there's a reason because if you're doing giving online there is such we are avoiding such problems it is actually better to people give online because it go straight to the bank no human person that's why we say if you're giving online please continue doing like that you know but recently we had another incident this is like um uh beginning of this year, you know, but this was a mistake that happened because usually the packet after it's all counted is brought by one person straight to the church office. That is also another part of it. on that particular Sunday it exchanged hands between um so the offering team gave it to one person that person gave it to another person who then gave it to the church office so it exchanged hands with two people usually from counting it'll come straight to office only one person this time it went into the hands of two people. Somewhere there 25,000 rupees missed happened this year. Okay. Now one problem and that is our fault. What was our fault? We used to staple the envelope. stable there. And so what must have happened is happily they've opened the stable taken some money out put so you can staple it back exactly like that. I said oh why you know we should if you put a tape or you put in a sealed bag that it is not easy. The table was very easy but I I guess the offering team was trusting right hey who's going to take money out of this offering bank account we so everything is done book is written envelope is written but problem was it was staple and now the problem is it went in the hands of two people whom to catch one two uh one two I sorry I think three three people there's one more person so three people handled it in between before it reached the accountant whom to catch right so even though in like let's say I I I I had a very strong I can say I can only call it suspicion unless we have certain proof we cannot take action right um because all three people said oh whatever was given to me I gave so there's no what I'm saying is we have a system we have a process but in that still somebody found a way out uh in just getting offering from the offering packet from the uh location to the office. So then we said please put lot of tape seal it properly there's no chance and only one person will take it from venue to so if the seal is broken only one person to catch right the moment it changes hands then you don't know who could have done but I'm just saying it happened this year right So uh uh this is why you know our systems and processes how we are doing everything I'm giving um offering counting as example because money is involved but other things also right our how we are working has to be really tight it has to be done well [snorts] and uh uh we have to keep looking at is there any mistake any loophole anything keep improving in how we work. You understanding right? So these uh this happens. Um so for all these areas we have standard uh processes in place. Um example for reports every month uh accounts will the by the before the 7th of the month uh I I will get a report for the previous month all the income all the expense everything tallied put together I should get a report then I will take a quick look on it if I see anything not okay I will ask questions you know or if I feel we have to make changes but we have to do it on a monthly basis because uh we don't want to go too long before something goes wrong and then we wake up after somebody oh what happened that month no check on a monthly basis make sure everything is going fine right so even the accounting reporting has to come monthly basis check everything right so if you want to look at a example the human body so this is on page uh 22 if you think about the human body. The human body is also made of lot of systems and processes, right? That's how the body functions, right? Uh you have the circulatory system which carries the blood to every part of your body. Uh and it brings oxygen, nutrients and it also removes the waste. um helps keep the body temperature, digestive system, excretary system, endocrine, uh etocrine, there's immune system, muscular system, nervous system, so many the whole body has many systems and within each system there are processes happening, right? Keeps the whole body. If any process doesn't work properly, it can affect the whole body. Yeah. Uh and you feel and we feel the thing. So, [snorts] so why do we need to have system and process place? As I was explaining, we want to work efficiently. Everybody knows what to do. uh there's a flow of information, resource, finance and we can look at keep on looking at areas to improve uh things right. So only when you look at these the flow the the system and the process uh then we can identify oh there's a you know there's a gap here or this has to be improved and so on. So we'll have to constantly keep looking at it right. Um another important thing is if we have proper system and process in place even if people move things should keep functioning because people will move right they they grow they we change their role. Okay you are like doing this now you can do this or maybe they leave they go out of the city whatever. So even if people move everything should function and for it to function the system and process must be in place it should keep on working right and it should work in such a way that uh it's not dependent on the person the people themselves we can replace the people people will change but the function should keep happening so um we'll talk about many many examples that happen um let me cover this here. Uh for a good system design, what are some things we have to keep asking, right? Excellence. How can we do things better? Right? So, we have to okay, can can we do this better? And so, I'm constantly at least whenever I I'm looking around, I'm talking about the organization, the church, I'm think, can we do this better? Can we improve this? you know, uh are we are we are we are we doing it well? Right? Uh can we do it more efficiently or more productively? Right? Uh can it be done faster? Can it be done cheaper? That means don't spend so much money. Can is there a way to do it without spending so much money? And uh are we doing it in a way edge meaning are we doing it in a way that we can meet the needs of the people um that that are not being met elsewhere right that means are people's needs being met. So think of what can we do to uh meet the needs of people in different ways in innovative ways in fresh ways uh to help people right so you're thinking of making it better faster cheaper and different or new ways or fresh ways so you always have to think uh when you're looking at what's happening can I do it better can I do it cheaper can I do it faster uh can I do it in better uh in in different ways uh whatever we are doing okay so let's just look at one process design uh which is on top of page 24 uh about our book request which I mentioned earlier right so a book request can come to us in many ways Most of it comes to us by email. People just send an email to book request. Um sometimes it would come through a phone call. It can come through WhatsApp. It can come through a physical letter but not too many letters these days. Uh it can come from our book table in all our locations. People say hey we need to put stuffly back or somebody will mention to a staff hey can you send please tell your office the church to send some book the request comes. So what we do we have a a spreadsheet where all the requests should be entered came. So the person receiving the email their responsibility to make sure we have full address correct address what are the titles the language quantity and mobile number. Right? So that will be this will go into a spreadsheet. Then that is done in the office. Now we have a warehouse separately somewhere somewhere where we keep uh an inventory of the books. So the thing is have at least 2,000 copies of every book you know every language sitting in the warehouse. If the quantity comes down to 200 it's time to reprint. I mean reprint we usually reprint 4,000 copies. Right? So that is the responsibility of the warehouse people there. Right? only they know what is the stock and this is the guidance. If it hits 200 200 time to reprint the books to keep the supply when you reprint print 4,000 it's cheaper than printing less quantity and keep it ready in stock. So the book request comes it's entered in the spreadsheet the people in the warehouse right now we have two people full-time they will look at the spreadsheet their work is divided 50/50 you have to handle every book request see it pack the books put it nicely we have again they're all standard brown cover everything is there no pack the book keep it ready then the evening you we we use it depends on career or um what is a post office? It depends on how it has to go. It will go right. But there are these other different cases. One is bulk requests. So usually uh example last week I was went for a conference in Jaipur. So we sent 300 300 200 sets. There were 200 pastors. So we sent 200 sets of five Hindi five Hindi titles. So when I'm going for a conference, I will send I will give the in advanced information. Hey this month I'm going to speak at this conference. This month I'm going to speak here. So it'll so like that I send the information. you have to send please send so many like so many number of books in advance to the to give it to the people in the conference and sometimes it may be related to what I'm speaking teaching so this is a special request it's not like one request it's like for 200 um in October we'll be sending there's another conference in Hyderabad so send 300 November there's a conference in Dimapur so we're sending thousand sets so this is a lot of Imagine packing thousand sets of you know five books packing it. So they will be busy keep them very busy in the warehouse. So there are individual requests and then there are these bulk requests mean you have to send bulk quantities to mainly it's conferences or or bible schools when they're graduating students are graduating they will ask so there are bible schools around the country usually this will happen in the month of fee march when before the graduation they say please we have 50 students graduating we have 100 students gradu please send us they'll give it as a gift graduation gift see for no need gift any day you go for them [laughter] for them they get it as a graduation gift these books things like that right so this is one as special thing then another special thing is when a new book comes out that uh single copy will go to everybody on a mailing list so maybe like 10,000 people so that will be done directly with the post office. So how it works is the book once the book is printed in the printers they are put in the cover in the printers deliver directly to the post office the post office send it through that machine they have a like a franking machine tuck tuck tuck they'll send it to the franking machine and we will have we have to actually we have to pay it in advance we have to pay the money directly to the postto so that's how we send out a new book so this is a single book but it'll reach like you know many thousands of people depending on the language English may be 10,000 uh if it's a Hindi I don't know what the address is but we may have several thousand Hindi addresses so it has to go right so you have three varieties one is individual requests then you have these bulk requests and then you have a new book dispatch all this has to happen you understanding now am I boring you with this is all happening behind the scenes Means you're sitting comfortably here but book this is what is happening as far as the book request is concerned. So our people in the warehouse they have to know the inventory manage the inventory that is also part of the responsibility nothing because we don't want to come in a place where hey we have to send uh 500 copies to a conference uh it is happening in two months or something and we don't have stock then it'll be too much pressure because we have to print and then get it and send all those too much pressure that's why we always try to it is their responsibility to manage a stock versus the demand you know that's it. So from printing to delivery stock then daily basis dispatch pack the books send it out individual requests bulk request also we have a procedure that means the bulk books must reach 2 days before the conference. So we don't want it to reach after the conference then too late people would have gone we don't want it to reach too early because these are big volume so where will they store it we have to think about the people on the other side right so if they receive a thousand sets uh they may not have place to store the books so we we will send it directly to the conference venue so it'll arrive in the conference venue and within one two days before the conference so they can give it away immediately because otherwise they have to think about storage space. You understanding right? So that also has to be planned that is a responsibility of the people in the uh warehouse. So there are two people in the warehouse there's one person in the office who coordinates these things right all this uh this bulk thing. So she will uh plan the dispatch and according to that those things will go. So packing has to happen, dispatch has to happen, the request was marked completed. So individual request marked complete sent and um bulk request or indiv new book print it is marked completed right. So new book some more coordination you have to coordinate between printer post office accounts. Post office won't do the dispatch until they get the money. I say how many books you're sending? 10,000. dishes the amount so many lakhs send it to us then we will do the dispatch so all coordination has to happen otherwise um books will get stuck somewhere you understand no so this this whole process has to be well uh streamline you know it should happen very efficiently uh and happening day after day everything has to happen only then can people be served properly because at the end of the day on the other side there is a person who's going to receive the book right they're going to read the book could be a pastor it could be somebody in the church somewhere there for them they are going to be blessed but for them to receive the book this side we have to be very organized the system the process has to be working every day book will requests are coming Right? People are requesting so it keep has to keep uh keep going right. Um so process improvement. So you have to design the process but you also have to see hey can it happen? So yesterday I got a little angry after I went to the office because and this is happening after a long time because I get an email from the people in Hyderabad. Thank you for sending our books. Sending your books. Okay, conference is happening end of October. How they receive the books now? I was a little confused because that is not what we normally do. We only send it 2 days before the conference. So something is wrong here. Let me check. Uh uh so I messaged the people involved. I said hey please can you explain I I get this message from Hyderabad saying they received the books but conference is happening end of October. We normally don't do this. So what happened? Oh we are so sorry. We are so sorry. uh we sent the books but now over there they have a problem they have to store 300 sets of books for one month somewhere you understand we have caused them a problem I was feeling so upset cuz we don't do this we have put a process in place where you only make sure book reaches 2 days before the conference. If you send now one month, where will they keep the books, it is their headache now? Where are they going to store 300 sets of books? Where will they? They don't have a warehouse. We have a warehouse. So, I was very upset. I said, see, and this is after so many years of doing work. We not doing this for the first time. You know, we have a system. We have a process. And yet somehow something went wrong in the communication between like I said there's a person who manages the dispatch and between the warehouse. So something went wrong and some confusion they sent the books but now they said so please call them please apologize uh I tell them we don't work like this but this was a mistake. So we had to kind of you know do this thing but I was upset. I said see like we should not be making these kinds of mistakes now because we've been doing this for so many years 20 years we've been doing now you make a mistake like this it's a little not nice. [snorts] So the point is we have to continuously monitor what's going on. See if I didn't know about it I would not have addressed the problem. You know I've not said hey we should not do like this you know uh so uh we should continuously check what is going on in every area and see what's happening the moment we get feedback we have to say how can we make it better you know and so you monitor you collect uh you analyze you take corrective action then you keep improving right so goal is every area things should keep getting better and uh see the importance. Okay, [snorts] let me stop here. Uh we will finish the rest of this uh lesson next week. Any questions? I know I've almost uh gone to the end. Let me see in chat. Yeah, any questions? No problem. All good. Okay. Um let's take uh a close for today. We will uh continue this and finish it uh next week. Thank you.