“Christian Revival” Or Right-Wing Culture In Disguise? - Alex O’Connor

Duration: 13:37 2817 transcript words EN summary

Video summary

The podcast features a critical examination of the so-called "Christian Revival," which Alex O'Connor argues is largely driven by right-wing cultural conservatives rather than genuine theological renewal. He questions whether figures like Douglas Murray and Constantin Kissen, who identify as "cultural Christians" or have been baptized without necessarily holding deep faith in core doctrines like the resurrection, represent a true spiritual awakening. Instead, O'Connor suggests this movement functions more as an ideological reaction against Islam, wokeism, gender ideology, and what he terms "new atheism." The discussion highlights that for many of these individuals, Christianity serves less as a matter of inward religious sign or truth claims about Jesus's divinity and more as a political shield to oppose perceived cultural threats. O'Connor contextualizes this phenomenon by analyzing the trajectory of "New Atheism," noting its origins in left-wing figures like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris before evolving into a sociological movement often championed on platforms like Fox News. He contrasts this with the current landscape where conservative commentators debate evolution and religion as if they were cultural battlegrounds similar to how progressive movements currently frame gender studies or Islamophobia debates. The speaker posits that while New Atheism was broadly left-wing, it created a vacuum filled by reactionary conservatives who now seek religious identity not for salvation but to establish clear boundaries between right and wrong in public life. This shift transforms the Church of England's historical role as "the Tory party at prayer" into something resembling an existential crisis for traditional conservative parties that are falling apart due to internal ideological fractures. A significant portion of the conversation addresses the stark differences between American and British political landscapes regarding religion, particularly noting the absence of a robust Christian Right in the UK comparable to groups like Bible Belts or Trump's evangelical base. O'Connor points out how ludicrous it would be for a British Prime Minister, who may even be Hindu, to face campaign questions about favorite Bible verses, contrasting this with Donald Trump's inability to recall specific scripture despite his public religiosity. He argues that the UK lacks a party representing right-wing Christians because the Conservative Party has effectively split between left and right factions, leaving traditional conservatives without representation in Parliament. Consequently, some are turning toward Christianity as a desperate political strategy to find a home for their worldview, though O'Connor remains skeptical about whether this can sustain itself beyond mere cultural utility. The dialogue concludes with an exploration of "strong-armed" versus "meek and mild" Christianity, suggesting that the current revival leans heavily toward the former due to its defensive nature against aggressive secular liberalism. The speaker hypothesizes that for those adopting a utilitarian form of faith, Christianity provides a protective layer—a worldview that asserts objective moral truths rather than merely tolerating diverse opinions under secular rules. This ideological framework allows adherents to reject certain policies and lifestyles they deem wrong without the need for compromise inherent in liberal democracies. Ultimately, O'Connor warns against mistaking this political mobilization for a genuine spiritual renaissance, emphasizing that while some may genuinely believe in Jesus's resurrection, many others are simply picking up fruit from a tree they do not fully understand to defend their cultural and political positions against what they perceive as an encroaching existential threat.

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talk to me about the political dimension of this Christian Revival yeah it's just a bunch of right- wiers getting upset about Islam and wokeism basically in my view um I mean Douglas Murray you know goes to church on Christmas and sort of likes to be I mean Justin Bry talks about Douglas Murray as one of his examples of people who is sort of very like Christian friendly you know like sort of cultural Christian type I don't know how true that is I I I haven't sort of kept up with Douglas's like on this stuff but say it were true it's like why is that is it because Douglas has sat in a church prayed deeply you know for an inward sign of like the the sort of True Religion of the universe or is he just upset with the way his country is going I think it's more likely the latter um Constantin kissen recently called himself a cultural Christian um in in like a video and it was the same kind of thing like it's not a theological thing you know they'll say I'm an atheist but I'm a cultural Christian Russell BR got baptized Russ r got baptized but again this is this is slightly different because he says he actually believes it right actually I don't know I mean I haven't I again I haven't kept up with Russell Brand I don't I don't listen to him but I I presumably he'll actually believe in the resurrection of Jesus and stuff to have been actually baptized um so I think that where somebody has actually sort of developed a Christianity and a truth claim I believe Jesus rose from the dead I don't think that's just is that a Christian Revival yeah I mean sure that would be an actual Christian Revival but I don't think think the the way the thing that people are pointing to and saying but look at this upswing I don't think that's happening as much I I don't know I don't know what the stats are on like baptisms and stuff wouldn't surprise me you know if there's a non-zero number of people who start to look at the fruits sure and it is possible to ion her Al it and kind of go back up to the tree yeah you think well yeah it's going to it's going to work both ways yeah in a way like if you can't see the tree you can just sort of like start picking up the fruit and following the trail and it will sort of lead you to discover the tree for some people for sure and again you're around the people you're going to mass you're going to service these are your new friends they're talking about it all the time I got to read this I've got a study someone gifted me a study Bible I know what this is so there's two there I wasn't sure what your position on this was whether you think that it's a upswing in utilitarian functional Christianity as opposition to certain movements that a number of people have got a problem with or just conservatism uh wrapped in uh religious uh talking so is it does it exist as a Revival of conservatism with a new bow put on it or in opposition to push back against uh other things that people are concerned about that was I think it's it's the conservatives who are pushing out who are pushing against this stuff right like so new atheism what's new about new atheism the sort of political Dimension you know it it's it's as much like a a movement a sociological movement like I say more so than it is a theological one um it's much more it's it's the reason that new atheism found its way onto like the national press it's on Fox News you know people debating now in the way that now it's like you know um I I don't know what it is in America like like you know gender studies in schools or whatever it used to be like evolution in schools that's what you turn on the TV in fact like imagine that you know like you would turn on the TV and you'd find your tacle Carlson and people like just going on and on and on about like Evolution and God and religion and Christianity I mean it's it's amazing it did it was doing exactly what like the you know the woke social justice stuff is is doing now in that in that space um so that was sort of the the like the new atheism thing sort of was was was this cultural phenomenon talking about politics you know um it it did the theology stuff little bit as well but but you know it was it was social movement and so okay what kind of social movement was it well broadly speaking it was leftwing it's an interesting subset of like YouTube atheists who went on to be like anti-sjw reactionary types but broadly speaking The Atheist community that that sprung up Christopher Hitchens the Socialist um Richard Dawkins very leftwing more recently sort of gender critical and you know suspicious of Islam all that kind of stuff which which puts him more on the on the on the right same thing with Sam Harris but these guys are like traditionally left-wing people right and it's all very you know Christian nationalism is suppressing gay rights and gay marriage and abortion and all of this kind of stuff and contraceptives and divorce laws and all of that right so new atheism is is quite leftwing so whatever like space it creates culturally the people who are going to sort of say we don't like this we don't like what's happening we want to react against that are going to be conservatives yeah um so like in other words it's like it's both I think it's it is in many ways a reaction against this vacuum but the people who are reacting against that vacuum are going to be probably more or less conservatives they used to call uh the Church of England was was known as the Tory party at prayer that's what they called them the fact that the fact that nobody is now going to church of England churches means it feels like a a sort of waste of a good label and I think like the cultural Christianity movement could be called that you know the the Tory party at PR not the Tory party because the Tory party is probably about to cease to exist in England have you seen this I think right now as we're speaking Yeah it's got to be about like you know half past or quarter two yeah be like right now um there's a seven party debate happening on the BBC Nigel farage is currently stood at the podium like probably shouting at a bunch of other people um and it's amazing like reform UK are two points behind the conservatives at the last poll I checked um I remember hearing that well look I mean we're in we're in store for either another sort of 1997 like super labor success or or the actual um sort of it's like a it's an it's an existential moment as Andrew Mah has put it for for the for the for the conservative party it's sort of amazing to see so maybe not the Tory party at prayer but the English right conservative people at prayer you know at at prayer even if they don't know quite who they're praying to isn't it interesting though you know one of the things I noticed since moving over to America is that there is no equivalent of the Christian right in the UK or there wasn't right you know that you know what I mean Bible belty like you know it's for God it's country it's patriotism and the constellation of beliefs kind of right themselves I mean what what religion but what religion is our prime minister you know and and also like if you are like K St is he a Christian I literally don't know I have no idea and if he was I wouldn't know what kind of Christian he was and also I don't care and nor does any of his party and nor do any of the the population you know like genuinely it's so it's so strange I think our prime minister is a Hindu as far as I'm aware um but I'm not sure how like religious he is in in that but can you imagine like it being a serious part of the conversation in Britain your American listeners might not be fully aware of just how absolutely ludicrous it would be yeah to be sort of on the campaign Trail and somebody asking you know what's your favorite Bible verse yeah you know and and when like Donald Trump can't think of a Bible verse you know what is it he said when he was asked for his favorite Bible verse and he goes oh there are just there are just too many there are just so many I love it all I love them all um that that can that's a bit of a scandal it's like the leader of the Republican party doesn't you know like in the UK it just it just doesn't so not Salient and and so maybe I think what people sort of noticing is that the the right in America is quite quite strong got a presence do you think that do you think that this could be a potential angle for a future British political party to tap into I don't think they can tap into Christianity at least not yet I I don't think it's it's nearly strong enough but I think a lot of people in the UK are getting desperate because their country is going down the pan uh there is no such thing as a sort of small SE conservative party because the the Tory party two left wing for the right- Wingers and two right wing for the left Wingers that's why they're ceasing to exist they've sort of Fallen between two two pews um and and they're going to they're going to possibly you know have to have to hang up the Hat um so I think people in the UK are quite sort of especially right Wingers in the UK are quite desperate so like we don't have a we don't have a a movement we don't have a home we don't have a party that we can vote for like we don't we don't have a way to get ourselves represented in Parliament so what are we going to do and they're sort of trying out different things and one of these things is like well what if we all just become Christians again you know maybe that'll do something but it means that if you if you pay attention on like Twitter to the kinds of account because it's not just the the thought leaders but also like you begin to notice in in the comments you know there's more there's just more people there are more people who are who are fervent there's more people with little uh display pictures of like a a crusader you know with the with the with the with the Sword and the and the helmet on and stuff and and you realize that if there is sort of a Christian Revival happening it might be a Revival of the sort of strong armed um like we're not going to take this kind of Christianity rather than the meek and Mild I've heard you talk about the difference between strong armed Christianity and meek and Mild Christianity is the reason for the get that in go on uh is the reason for the strong armed Christianity that this revival is coming in opposition to a bunch of things that seem quite aggressive that seem quite militant whether it be rising threat from China Russia Islam gender ideology wokeism whatever yeah um I mean I think a lot of people are for those who are I'm not I shouldn't you know this is all hypothesizing and I can't say that whether most people who are sort of considering Christianity again are doing so for theological or political reasons but of the people who are doing it for political reasons arguably you know the politics comes first that their their primary concern is having a sort of a strong ideological um and this is the cultur of Christians this are the people who will say I don't believe in God but I sort of like the Christianity stuff like what do you like in Christianity well for many of them they say it gives them a it gives them this this sort of protective layer against these ideologies that they don't like or the vacuum of no ideology how does it give them a protective layer well that's the question to ask right like and and I'm kind of the wrong person to ask there because I'm I'm not sort of part of this crew but if you did ask them I mean I know it's it's a little bit vague and and a little bit difficult to pin down but it to to any extent that it does offer a protective layer against ideologies you don't like it has to be a bit more strong armed it has to be defens it has to put up a shield right and so it it really depends on who you ask right but but let's just hypothesize for a moment what is it that you get from utilitarian Christianity in opposition to secular liberalism what does it provide you that you can't arrive at without the Christianity bit content secular you know secularism doesn't have cont content secularism is just like a a sort of rule a political rule that says that you're not allowed to like let religion um have any sort of any particular ReliOn have any hand in like political Affairs you just got to sort of have a hands-off approach to religion right it doesn't actually provide anything it's not a world view Christianity is a is a world viw it allows you to say there are things that are right and wrong right so in in like a like a secular liberal government you might say you have this opinion you have this opinion and because we're a secular liberal Society even though I think you're wrong I think you should be in Parliament I think you should become the Prime Minister if that's what the people want all of this kind of stuff where if you have an ideology that just says no there are right things and wrong things and our country is one that believes in these right things and if you believe the wrong thing like no you know you're not going to become the Prime Minister you're not going to like so I think it it sort of provides you this ability to safeguard your worldview in other news this episode is brought to you by eight sleep I have been using my eight Sleep mattress for years and I cannot imagine living without it during the summer I find it difficult to sleep because I'm a warm boy and eight sleep is the ultimate fix I don't need to worry about how low I can crank the air conditioning because my mattress is literally temperature controlled and now eight sleep have launched their newest generation pod the Pod 4 ultra pod 4 ultra can cool each side of the bed individually up to 20° below room temperature keeping you and your partner cool and for those who snore heavily it can detect your snoring and automatically lift your head a few degrees to improve air flow and stop it eight sleep is clinically proven to give 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