Christian Marriage & Family | Lecture 8 : BC202-CM&F-20260909

Okay. All right. Recording is on. All right. Let's um go to page um this is page 29. Uh so we were talking about finding the right person and what we said uh you know is that um there can be more than one person who could be uh someone that you can match, right? It's not like uh there's only only one person and if that person for whatever reason says no or it's not a you know uh it doesn't mean it's the end of your life. It's not the end of your life, right? Uh ultimately it's uh two people saying yes to each other and then you are going to build your marriage. You have to work on your marriage. Um and uh um uh you know that that's more important than just finding the right person. So uh bottom of page 28 let me share this uh just some concluding thoughts here in this chapter and then we will move to the next chapter. Um some concluding thoughts is okay there is nothing wrong in seeking that means you're prayerfully asking God to lead you to the right person. Right? So you do the seeking uh you know maybe in the church community you are or maybe uh beyond uh nowadays um they you can use online portals put your profile there all those things are there uh or maybe some others who are known to you they may send they may know somebody in their church their congregation they'll refer so all those kinds of options are there so there's nothing wrong in seeking right Nothing wrong in asking God to show you Lord who is the right person and talk to people song right um important thing uh next point there on page 29 is for you to discern God's guidance and how do you discern you ask you know you ask these questions that we've been looking at in this lesson does this person have the traits and qualities that are important to you right uh what are things important for you and do does is the does this person have those qualities. Is there alignment and compatibility in the four realms? What four realms? We said, four realms, spiritual, emotional, physical, calling, right? You have to have there's got to be some maths in those four realms, right? Okay. Um and then uh we said, you know, can this person uh is this person actually ready for marriage? Right? Have they come to that place? uh uh no there is no perfect person but uh have they been preparing have they been ready and so you you ask these questions uh while you're waiting continue to be faithful in what you're doing uh continue to you know in in your work your your ministry whatever you're doing continue faithfully while you're waiting uh and you know uh the right time God will show you uh the person remember bottom of page 30 marriage is more than the wedding sometimes people only focus on the wedding and they think that is the marriage. No, that is only getting married. Marriage is beyond that. Right? So think about the journey you have to make from from the time you come out of the wedding. So marriage is more than the wedding. Marriage is more than finding the right person. Page 31 because what you have to do is you have to actually build your marriage, build your understanding, right? Um during the engagement period like we said we just I'm just reviewing uh no sex before marriage keep yourself uh keep your boundaries uh you know uh stay good stay holy especially if you are in leadership people are watching you need to have a good example for everybody uh you know for them to follow. So there are higher standards for those who are in ministry people are looking at you as an example. So very important to maintain a good example. Uh page 32. Uh until you are married, you are not married. So don't start behaving like a married couple before marriage. Yeah. Yeah. You're engaged but you're not married. So please behave like single people only. Uh so you know keep keep those boundaries very clear. Um last section you know we just put this section here. Sometimes people ask a question, you know, am I called to be single? Does God want me to be single for the rest of my life? So, like we said, you know, by default, God's will for you is to get married. Why? Because in the garden of Eden in Genesis, he told them, be fruitful and multiply. He already gave that commission, right, to Adam and Eve. That was his commission. But sometimes there would be people who choose to be single. Why? Uh sometimes singleness could be a choice. they make for kingdom purposes. Right? Example, the Apostle Paul that he writes in 1 Corinthians 9, he said he could have got married if he wanted to. He could have been like Peter or any of the other apostles, but he chose to remain single because he wanted to, you know, he had to travel all of those things. So, he chose to that is his choice. And so, there may be people who choose to remain single for kingdom purposes. Uh sometimes uh people recognize they have a gift of singleness. That means they are they can be empowered God empowers them to stay uh live a life of singleness maybe to serve a certain purpose to do something. So they have that gift or sometimes people make it as as a choice uh for uh in order to pursue spiritual things. So when you think of the monks of old they chose that kind of a life because they wanted to pursue spiritual things right. So uh singleness can be a choice uh that some people make. Okay. Uh any questions on chapter number three before we go to chapter four? Chapter three was on finding your life path um making the right choice. Any questions on that? Like how should I go about making the choice? Any questions? Ask, take the mic and ask. I know you're smiling, but who where's the mic? As ask online students, you're also welcome to ask uh any questions from chapter 3 before we start chapter 4, please. >> Hi, Pastor. Can you um maybe explain a bit more about the balance between getting to know someone and obviously building on like as we go through this for example this book even in marriage preparation there are lots of topics that we're going to cover that will require us to ask intimate questions. So how do you find the balance between you know not playing marriage even from those perspectives of conversations >> to then being married cuz sometimes those things can get blurred emot from a emotional psychological perspective. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So uh so the question here is uh you're being friends with everybody you're talking to everybody and so on. Maybe you know a few people are seem to be possible potential people that you know you're considering for marriage. So you want to get to get to know them a little better yet at the same time uh you haven't made any commitment. You're not engaged or you're not in that place where you've decided to get married to that person. So how do you draw differentiation differentiate between you know the kinds of things you can have in your conversation discuss ask before and in a place where you've made a commitment you know so that's different so I think uh in the initial stage when you're talking to somebody uh begin find out just general interest you know things are questions that are okay to ask some any friend any person you getting to know you know Where did you study? What are your interests? How do you you know what are your hobbies? Things like this to get to know the person and you're kind of in a community where you're mixing with lots of people. You get to see each other how they conduct themselves and so on. So you're observing also. Uh I think the uh the the I think the the determining factor would be like if both there is mutual interest and both are seriously thinking of to seriously thinking if this could be the person right you've not made a commitment so you've gone from just being a friend you've not yet come to a place like okay we're going to get married that commitment is not made but you're seriously trying to see if this person could be somebody suitable for your life. So you kind of gone from just being a friend to maybe this could be somebody. So in that stage I think it's okay to ask a little bit more question like what do you plan to do in life where you want to go uh certain things maybe about the family so on things like that where um you wouldn't just ask any random friend you know but and maybe there's a mutual interest so then people are willing to have that conversation knowing that you've not yet made a commitment you know but then at that point also you don't want to say everything you don't want to say things that you would later on regret that oh I should not have shared those things you be we have to still be careful uh about what we say what we share um until we know for sure yeah I think this is the person then let's have a more serious conversation then discuss more serious things you know once that once you know for sure that this is the person then you can have serious conversation right so I think that there's a lot of uh discretion involved in that stage what you what to speak what not to speak and you haven't yet made a commitment right so you have to be a little careful >> yes your question >> yeah and um I think somebody on the on the call also had a question we'll come to that afterwards yeah Pastor as you said that uh before we marry we should maintain uh boundaries. So what kind of boundaries we should maintain uh before the marriage if someone is there in the relationship or like a kind of >> so first we said no sex before marriage that's a clear boundary. Second uh you know even in physical affection uh we have to be very careful right so uh in some cultures like you know in the western c okay if two people are dating they will hold hands and they'll walk around and all that's that's in their culture or uh you know it's it's okay but here that's not you know that that's not in the city may not I I guess some places they they they just close their But in you know some place it's not okay it's not okay even if you're engaged you're dating or something you're holding hands and walking that is not okay right so I think um so we know something that okay no sex before marriage very clear but can you hold hands can you you know hug each other all that I think that's a uh may vary from place to place culture culture. Uh but the best thing is don't do anything that brings a bad testimony to Jesus. You know, some things that may be okay in the city may not be okay in another culture. You know, other other s because people see it very differently even though you may not be doing anything wrong. Uh those things are there. So, uh I think that determines also like you may need to maintain a good testimony. So boundaries like that are important. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Uh question on the class here. I think somebody raised their hand. All right. Okay. Okay. Um question. >> Yeah. like uh person said like before marriage sex is very wrong. Just want to clear that thing like if someone asked us if he committed the sex before the marriage. So what uh what should we can we guide to them like how they can proceed and what what things we should guide them actually? If someone asks >> if if someone asks us about like they had committed sex before marriage. So what should the steps we can like how to guide them actually? >> So if somebody Okay. So yeah so there will be those situations right where some young people have had sex before marriage right uh maybe they were not saved or whatever there could be so many reasons. uh what we have to tell them is okay what's done you can't go and undo the past right you can't go and undo what's done important from this time on until they get married they need to stay pure right and second is um they need to receive forgiveness for themselves for what has happened okay maybe they did it ignorantly maybe they they did it you know not whatever they didn't have any self-control, whatever, whatever reason, right? Okay, you know you're forgiven for the for what you did, but from this time on keep yourself pure, right? Um then uh when when you know if when and if and when they find the right person, they're going to get married. Uh I personally think it's there's no need to tell that person about their past life, right? Because I've seen in many cases that actually hinders the relationship, right? So you can't go and tell some you're going to get married to somebody, a person like this, you know, a young person, maybe they had sex before the before marriage. Now, uh they're living pure, they're living a single life, uh and then they're going to get married. Uh if they go and tell that person, hey, I just want to let you know uh this and this happened in my life before, uh it's going to affect their relationship with their future spouse because that person may not be able to accept that, right? um they may or they may not. We don't know, right? But I've seen it go both ways. That means there are cases where um some people are they accept the fact that yeah, you know, this has happened in your life in the past and uh we know God is forgiven, everything is fine, everything is clear is fine. uh some cases no they're not able to accept emotionally and then it hinders their marriage. So uh we can't predict how the other person will re react or respond uh just by saying what you did in the past. So I don't think there is um a right answer like every person will be able to accept or every person will not be able to accept. I don't know cuz I've seen both uh when when there are certain people who cannot certain people do. So my suggestion generally say you know it's not part of your life now you know you made a mistake in the past you're forgiven you've lived clean since then so leave it in the past like don't don't even talk about those things you know we all had everyone has a past just leave it there as a person today you've been washed by the blood of Jesus you're living a clean life now that's what's important like it's what Paul writes you know in 1 Corinthians Ians 6 9-11 um he tells the Corinthians you know he lists uh you know don't you know that all these kinds of people he lists all kinds of sin you know those adulterers thieves liars whatever he said okay all these people not inherit the kingdom of god and he says such were some of you you know but now you are washed you're sanctified you're justified so he's telling the Corinthians see he's saying I know that in the past you had this kind of a life you were living all of you were living like is but now you're washed you're sanctified you're justified mean now you are clean so that's the way he sees them right so I think that's the way we should see one another and so on so yes young people would have made mistakes in their lives um and uh they they regret that but what has happened after that is very important that they've given it up they're living clean they've come to Jesus you know and that's important Yeah. Any questions? >> Yes. >> Yes. Go ahead. >> I say to you, whoever is except for sexual immorality and marries and whoever is com. >> Yeah. So we'll talk about this uh I think a little later on but in scripture we see different um reasons for divorce. Okay. So this is one that is Matthew 19. You read this also in 95. One reason for divorce is unfaithfulness. Uh and in this particular case, Matthew 19, it's sexual immorality. Malachi chapter 2. Another reason for divorce is abuse. Malachi chapter 2. 1 Corinthians chapter 7. Another reason for divorce is willful abandonment, discernment. That means if one person just decides to go away, hey, so there also Paul says uh you can be divorced, right? So there are these situations where you see in scripture different scriptures uh where divorce happens, right? Uh and in that case the other person is free to get married and move on, right? Yeah. >> So the problem is when people read only Matthew 19 and they say you can only divorce because of sexual immersion. That's that's not what the scripture says because there is also Malachi 2 and there is also 1 Corinthians 7. That means uh there are other scriptures that address other situations in which under which divorce happens. Right? So Malachi 2 talks about unfaithfulness and abuse. Um the King James use the word violence. you've covered your garment with violence that you've been violent to the wife of your youth. That violence could be physical. It could be even verbal abuse, right? Sometimes verbal abuse also is as harmful and painful as physical abuse. So, and then 1 Corinthians 7 says if one of them decides to leave then the other person is free to marry, move on. Um, so there are all these so we have to put all the scriptures together. We shouldn't just take one scripture and say this is the only reason. Hey, there are other scriptures that talk about other situations. So we put it all together and then we say okay uh divorce happens under under these situations and in those cases uh the other person is free to marry. Of course we always say like you know have a time for healing, right? Understand why things went wrong. Don't just jump into another marriage. Simply, you know, understand what went wrong, why it went wrong. Make sure mistakes don't happen again. Uh those kinds of things. So, we help people through that. And we believe that God is a lot of new beginnings. You know, God will give people a new beginning. Um Yeah. >> Thank you, B. pastor. Um, >> yes, go ahead. >> Yeah. No, I was asking more from the perspective of the engagement period. >> So once the engagement happens, it says like don't play mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar mar marriage until you're married. So in that period it gets a little tricky because you are talking about things to do with marriage and then you're talking about commitment and you know figuring out the balance between your honoring your parents, honoring the person, >> honoring yourself, your calling and then it's kind of like a overlap period. So that period. >> Yeah. So okay now I understand. Okay. So during the engagement right um you still have to be as single people right because you still are not yet married you're engaged but engagement is not yet marriage engagement is a commitment saying I'm going to get married h maybe 6 months like that usually there'll be some months few months I'm going to get married but this time we'll take to prepare ourselves a lot of arrangements lot of things are there you know and you want to prepare so during the engagement ment you're still not married but of course a lot of conversation is happening discussion is happening planning so many things right but you have to conduct your still conduct yourself as single people that means you're not yet married uh while all this conversation discussion is happening so uh uh you whether you you'll be meeting discussing more frequently going out talking the All those things will happen. Uh but you're still not mad. That's the that's the thing. Yeah. That's the way you should conduct yourself. And uh yeah. Uh but you'll have to discuss things. >> You'll have to discuss finances. You'll have discuss where you're going to live. You're going to discuss all those details. You have to talk so that you can prepare yourself for marriage. So those discussions, yes, you can discuss. You have those comments. In fact, you know, when um people are going through the marriage preparation course, they go through this book and as we will see in the coming chapters, every chapter is going to make them discuss important things. So, you have to sit and talk. Although you're not yet married, you have to discuss these important things. Uh and that's where there will be a lot of uh important details you'll share. which is okay because it's happening after you have been engaged and you're getting closer to getting married. Hopefully nothing will go wrong in this period. Mostly nothing goes wrong. Some cases it happens you know where they just find out hey we really not really not compatible like when they start talking all the details then they find oh there's problems and that's when this counseling is very important because if the counselor or the pastor sees that there are problems they will either tell them hey take a little bit more time before getting married and sort out these issues or better you don't get married you know if there are problems that are noticed now again during that time I have seen sometimes some couples take our advice when we tell them don't get married some couples don't I see problem I remember remember like some years ago you know I told the couple hey don't get married you you need to either you sort out this problem or better you don't get married. But you know they're already so in that discussion and all that they just go and get married. Then after that problems just get worse and then it becomes even more painful because now they have to go through a divorce where it's very very sad. So I'm not blaming them but I'm just saying look we do our best you know that as they go through this course we make them discuss things so that if there are problems it will surface and then either the counselor or the pastor can tell them hey you address this problem first and then get married but that's all we can do that's all we can advise them uh but some will listen some will not. Yeah. So, let's um uh let's look at some questions in the chat. If a person had sex before marriage but later generally repented, can God still lead them to the right life partner or do the consequence of past sin uh still affect God's plan for marriage? Uh good question. The answer is God is a God of new beginnings and God is not limit. So let me let me put it like this. Our mistakes are not bigger than God, right? People make mistakes and our mistakes are not bigger than God is bigger than the wrong we've done. So knowing who God is u that he's a good God. uh we can have full confidence that look the past is behind and God it will not uh change what God can do for that person uh when it comes to marriage. So God can still lead that person to a very good life partner. They can still have a wonderful marriage and uh uh you know and serve the purposes of God. Okay? So that's who God is. He's a God of new beginnings. Another question, what if spouse lacks trust when they got to know about our past later on? Yeah, Christie. Um, so it's a tough situation. I'm actually working with one working with one couple just in that situation. Um where it was actually unnecessary uh in one sense where uh you know something happened in the past before marriage and then many many years later uh as though it was a for in a form of testimony. One of them told the other person hey this happened in my past. It happened literally more than you know like more than 10 years before. There was no need to bring it up because it happened before they really committed their lives to Jesus. But as a form of testimony they were sharing and now it is affecting their marriage. So it's sad. Um that's why I say like there's no need to bring it because you don't know how the other person is going to be affected even though it happened more than 10 years before and while they were not really in the Lord. There's no need to talk talk about the past. God is forgiven. God has let go. So So Christie, my my first thing would be hey uh you know it's in the past. It's over. There's no need to repeat those things if if you haven't shared it already uh before marriage uh if you've discussed it before marriage and if that person has discussed before marriage and uh they everything was okay and then they got married it's fine but if they haven't brought up you should tell them hey there's no need to bring it up because it happened in the past but if for whatever reason they've got to Oh, that it is one is it's very painful for the other person you know even though it's something that happened long long time ago it's very painful emotionally um even though they are strong Christians uh even though they may in the Lord emotionally it affects them you know that's like I one couple working through and I've seen many other cases like that it affects them and that's when they need help. They need emotional help, you know, the counseling, helping them. Uh so, so it's like this, right? We talk about forgiveness, but when it comes down to a real experience, that's when you, oh, this is what forgiveness is. It's very different. In theory, I can tell you Mark 11:26, forgive and all that. I can say it is kind of easy to explain but in real life you go through an experience and you oh god then you you I have to forgive that is a different requires the grace of god you know so that is what is needed you know when when something like this happens that is where uh you know whoever whoever husband or wife whoever uh has to really ask God's help to forgive because it's not something that happened in the marriage. It happened something before marriage in the past before they got married. So it's not even something now. It's way before but it still affects the person and that's where learning you know. So one scripture we know 2 Corinthians 5:17 it says therefore if any man be in Christ he's a new creation. All things have passed away. All things have become new. Um but just before that Paul says verse 16 he says henceforth we do not look at any person as in the flesh that means I'm not seeing them for who they are in the natural I'm seeing them for who they are in the spiritual spiritually you're a new creation in the natural yeah we've all made mistakes we all done other things but spiritually you are a new creation and so we I need to see you like that that's verse 16 right so we need to help people see that and it's not easy. Uh but that's where counselors, pastors can help them. Um your next question, what if women is ask what if a woman is asking for divorce because man has been unfaithful multiple relationships? Is it right according to the Bible uh for a woman or or woman not permitted to ask divorce? So the answer is it works both ways, right? If the husband is unfaithful, the woman has a right to divorce. Why? Because when two people got married, they were coming into a covenant. Husband was coming into a covenant. Wife was coming into a covenant. And you're expecting the other person to stay faithful to the covenant. Right? So although Matthew 5, Matthew 19 is focused on the man. Like if a man you know saying okay a man should not put away his wife except for uh unfaithfulness or immorality but it works the other way too because they enter they both entered the same covenant right so we can't say only a husband can divorce wife has to keep quiet no it's not like that right you both enter the covenant and it's it's a god orained covenant so if the husband is unfaithful which is what we read in Malachi 2 in Malachi 2 chapter 2 god is really speaking to the men he's saying, "You have been unfaithful. You have covered your garment with violence because you've been unfaithful to your wife." So in Malachi 2, the husband has been unfaithful and um uh the woman is permitted to ask for a divorce or in the case of abuse or dis willful desertion. Right? So it works both ways. Two people have come into a covenant. If the other person violates the covenant, then the person who's been violated uh has a right to step out. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um good questions. any I will um any we probably have a few more minutes question with uh extension to the previous question about trust being broken um when from your experience what do you feel is better because from the trust perspective if that is broken where it's not being told beforehand and then found out later about you know your past experiences is that can be far more harmful than just telling them upfront and then them deciding whether they want to get into that marriage or not. Right. Like if they have a problem with seeing whether you're a new creation or not, that I feel maybe a bigger problem. I don't know. >> Yeah. Um Yeah. So telling someone upfront uh is fine, you know, it's fine if you if that's what you I mean if somebody feels they want to do that um um and then the other person can decide but then it'll work both ways you know. So if both people are in in a place where they are willing to accept forgive I mean basically saying yeah we we understand uh you have passed uh and they're willing to accept it uh then get into marriage yeah uh that's fine that's a good situation but um I think um my my thought is is it uh necessary neessary to bring it up um knowing that that that's not who you are now. You know, it's it's it's uh that the person has changed, become a new creation or God has delivered that person. Um yeah, like like I said, like there's no one right answer. I just feel that because there are I've seen both cases. Um there are sometimes people are not even able to handle it. Um so yeah it just has to go as by discretion. Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh if they knew beforehand. >> Yes. Yeah. So I think the cases that I've seen when when it when somebody talks about their past as a testimony this was my life but they didn't talk about it like you know before marriage they shared it and and then their spouse gets hears that it affects them you know that they they are suddenly feel like they feel they are they should have known it before or they said if if you had told me before I married I would not have married you right uh kind of thing uh um so that's when I I feel that why was it necessary to even bring it up because it was in their past life before they even made a decision for Christ or before they even decided to get married you know yeah and the other person struggles Oh, then when it come see I've seen cases where it's very sad because the person told before the marriage this was my life before I came to Christ do you still want to marry me they said yes they got married. Then after getting married, the other the spouse was using that against the husband, which is so unfair, right? Because he he was just being honest. Hey, I just want you to know before I came to Jiz, I was like this. You was my life and like that. But the Lord Jesus changed me. I'm now a new person. I've been living as a new creation since then and all that. And they got married. But after marriage, it's they're bringing it up and it's so like why why are you doing this? It's so painful for both. It's um Anyway, it's it's it's a little complicated. Anyway, all right, let's take a break and we'll continue. Thanks.