Chris Bumstead - The Dark Side Of The Road To Greatness (4K) | 6X Mr Olympia

I was in the hospital for my Olympia prep at about four weeks out for a week I thought everything was going to be taken away from still olypia Chris bster I have this thing I say Champion mentality it's not about winning it's not about a trophy it's about having no quit I could have a th000 bullet points on a champion mentality but I used to look up to people I said do you like Michael Jordan that's not me four time oion there's no rules to being a champion breaking that stigma that like both can exist in a alpha male too for men you know like you can be this killer who cries you know like you can you know Champion makes his own rules and rides out the wave like that Chris Bumstead welcome to the show thank you grateful to be here very excited what does pressure is a privilege mean oh you really dive into this quick e so casual then you just stare me in the eye and ask the first question pressure is a privilege is definitely something that like evolved over of time I think I first heard it from Tim Grover which is someone who kind of like his book Relentless put my mindset into like the focus on my mindset and competing rather than just my physical body cuz I knew that's what it would take to like get to the next level and I think after winning an Olympia I was like oh [ __ ] like I just showed my cards and people know what I'm capable of now there's no one I got a beat there's no like second place third place like flow it's like no you're the best and unless you're the best we just forget about you so it was like this pressure I felt on myself and it was coming externally for a while and I was trying to like understand how I could gravitate that a little bit better without it kind of bringing me down and slowing down my progress and I had to kind of function into the reality that the pressure was really coming from myself rather than externally and that it's a good pressure it's a pressure to be better and to become the best version of myself and it's something that if I choose to use it properly it's going to push me to be a better version of myself to grow mentally physically my relationships however I want it to let me grow if I choose to take control of the aspects I have control over so in essence it's a the more pressure you have on you and if you take it as a privilege it's a choice to put your perception as a privilege rather than a burden and by taking the power back in that choice it pushes you in a direction of being better rather than holding you back yeah there's a pain that comes from the expectation of success I suppose which is different to your first time yeah you know when you've got nothing to prove you have nothing to lose the Underdog's always the funnest is that the way that you found it I mean I definitely the of my career was just I never even had aspirations to be Mr Olympia when I started I just love to train love to bodybuild and then once I started to get that pressure on me that started to fade a bit because I was taking in so much outside noise and I stopped doing it for the right reasons of why I started and just the fact that I love it and I enjoy and I enjoy pushing my body to limits so that affected me for a bit but even like my first ever Olympia win because of other stuff I had gone through I actually didn't even really enjoy it because of like stress of my health and pressure something had gone through the year before all this like not being present and suppressing all my like fears I had around it I just like battled through it got there and I was like it's over like I just won an Olympia this is this goal I've been chasing like for six seven years specifically in the league I have it and now why why do I feel like I'm missing something and I think I kind of uncovered that I was suppressing all this pressure all this fear of my health all these other aspects and in doing so I was also suppressing my ability to fear Joy feel joy and excitement and the the positive side of things cuz he always here you can't like selectively numb emotions you either pretty much numb everything or you feel all of it and I was definitely a numbing kind of guy I was like [ __ ] it don't feel it pushes the side compartmentalize and get to work and I was just like okay no this isn't right something's got to change and those two years my came second year before got sick won that Olympia didn't enjoy it this is like all right physical stuff is down I won I got to focus on my mental side right now because I if I'm doing this I want to love it I started because I love it and I want to keep doing it because I love it I'll remember the uh Conor McGregor was talking about I think the first time that he won the interim title and then the second time that he beat Aldo in 13 seconds and before that fight which seemed to be kind of peak McGregor right he was just this svant like an artist of war and uh someone was asking him what are you going to do differently this time that you didn't do last time and he said I'm going to enjoy it y because he stepped out on stage and there's that famous photo of him and he stood like this yeah looking out at the weigh-in it and he said can barely remember it yeah it's [ __ ] amazing you know the photo I mean he there and he's got that tattoo up at the back of his and he said I can barely remember it and he got another bite to the Apple yeah he got to do it again that's that's like and I it's a huge part of my life again like getting sick I felt like I was going to have to stop competing and then I won that Olympia and I'm like okay now I have the opportunity to do this again right like that's an absolute blessing like I'm so grateful that now I get to do it again and I've done it four times and I'm going for a fifth like the fact that I've had four years to like enjoy it more and and like perfect my craft it's just like it's something I'm like counting my days that I'm grateful for every single morning so it makes it more fun I've heard you say that winning is not what I once thought it was I have found it to be much more complex than our traditional definitions of success what's that mean it comes from when I was younger just like wanting more stuff a lot of external stuff a lot of success again things out of your control I wanted like circumstan as an objects I wanted success thinking it was something I could like the world could give me rather than something I could give myself and I look at winning as success it's kind of one in the same and there's this awesome quote by I think Jim qu Jim Cary and it goes I wish for the world to realize all of their dreams so that they can realize they don't make them complete and he's talking about that most people's dreams are very like external like Champions like they want to win a medal want a trophy want a nice car and all the stuff then you get it and when you have everything you realize this isn't what I wanted I Don't Feel Complete right now and I have the amazing opportunity in my life to have accomplished so many of my dreams and realize that there's still a void missing there so the more money I get the more titles I get the more I get it's not filling me up more but then I discovered that over time like it's the effort it's the journey it's like suffering through time that I don't want to be at the gym or why I want to quit on my diet and I push myself and every single moment every day leading up to the show and I win all those moments that's winning that's like winning in life continuously every day and through that Journey being able to build my relationships not sacrifice them for winning be able to make myself a better person not a more stressed out anxious person all that stuff coming together I've already won before I have a trophy in my hands when I stand on stage I haven't quit on a workout I haven't quitt on a cardio session my girlfriend still loved me in the background she hate me for neglecting here for the last three months of prep I'm like I won you know like I feel [ __ ] good right now and am I if I lose am I going to leave and be really sad and like cry and like grieve that loss absolutely but I'm still going to be proud of everything I put in and at the end of the day that's all I can control and to me that's winning how much do you think the joy of winning is just relief and a brief rest bite from fear of not being enough a lot of it a lot of it and I've talked to other people who have won things before and myself and that first Olympia with a test to that like the biggest thing I felt was just relief I'm like [ __ ] I did it it's over okay you can relax I'm not a loser I'm not a piece of [ __ ] yeah it's like that exhale and then a day or two goes by or a week or something and you're like I got to do that again but better if I ever want a like that again this expectations on me now I have to do more and I have to do better I have to be better I have to work harder I have to take myself to those limits and further because now that's my standard and that I need to overcome that standard to really impress anyone like the whole thing is showing your cards soon as someone knows you're good or how good you are that's a baseline you have to be better than that to be like okay so how what is your advice to someone that is struggling with the pressure of success perhaps you know for a long time they've been thinking that they want to get to a place then they set a standard and now they realize this pain of having to meet that standard again MH how have you managed to balance these two uh these two worlds the desire to continue to be better yeah and also the requirement to be able to be grateful and enjoy the present moment I think of one aspect and something that is very strange I think for people to hear because a lot of Champions we hear are just like killer mentality like win at all costs I think on one aspect I've accepted that I'd be okay with losing I accepted that if I lost like I said I would grieve I would be sad it would suck but like life would go on I would be okay and the Olympia is a huge part of my life but it's not everything part of my life so kind of giving myself permission to fail in essence almost gives myself permission to try harder and maybe it's not like that for everybody but for myself as soon as I was like okay if this happens and I lose what then like I either quit and leave and move on with my life or I come back and I try harder and that motivates me for more but either way I'm still me I still who have who I am as a person that I always control I have my relationships with people I love around me and a lot of beautiful stuff going on in my life so like I'm going to be okay and that really just kind of alleviated a lot of pressure and gave me permission to perform even more a lot of people are afraid to even try hard because then if you try hard and you fail you feel like a failure but the aspect of being a failure doesn't come from the success in the end it comes from if you really quit on yourself or if you don't put in the effort you know you can put in and you're kind of holding back on your true potential that's when I think you really deep down feel like a failure like underneath your soul yeah there's some interesting uh trends at the moment that I'm noticing uh and one of them is something I've called the cynicism safety blanket that's what you're talking about now I think cynicism is a guarded response which sets yourself up against disappointment its role within the system is to protect you against experiencing anything bad it is a preemptive strike against a perceived threat if I tell myself that all women are bad then I'm less likely to seek a relationship with women and as a consequence I'm never going to feel the pain of rejection if I tell myself that everything is [ __ ] or that things will never get better then I'm excused of ever having to try at anything it is more comfortable to get fatalistic and call it pragmatism the cope is framing hope as pathetic and embarrassing and optimism as delusion it's sour grapes at an existential level if everything sucks and everyone is terrible and reality is disappointing and you know that for a fact then it's the people acting like things can be better that are dumb delusional and the problem the upside of never having to try is never having to feel the pain of failure I think that's what you're talking about there yeah very much so and I think that even that applies to all aspects of life and what really pushed me to like learn these lessons again I'm not like a psychologist or educated like that but I've lived a lot of life and I've had a lot of ups and downs and in 2018 I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease I was in the hospital for my Olympia prep at about four weeks out for a week and I came out and I didn't know if I was going to be able to compete I didn't know if I'd be even healthy ever again I thought everything was going to be taken away from me and I got through it I came second at that Olympia somehow and it was like a battle to the death of numbing everything and just suppressing anything I feel and just trying to focus on bodybuilding and I did that for about a year and a half and this whole mindset I built around it was this fear that I'm going to get sick again I need to quit bodybuilding because I'm going to get sick I don't have control over my health I'm going to get sick and I'm just this constant fear was looming over my head because if I got sick then I could be like I knew I'd get sick you know like it was I was bound for everything to taken away from me it almost happened last year it's going to happen next year and I was just living in that to create almost prepare myself to create a little safety blanket like you said to just be like okay when it happens I can say I told you so I was right and I'm ready for it rather than leaning into actually enjoying life and kind of moving past that so I had to really like reframe my mindset and I started to I went through this whole journey of like after that I turned into you won't get sick trying to convince myself I'm not going to get sick I'm not sick denial exactly but then you're living in a sense of lack and avoidance and then you're also constantly thinking of that and when you're thinking of that constantly it puts you your body in the state of reaction or you're waiting for something to happen and when something happens you're like you know like [ __ ] it's against what I keep telling myself and then I switch to telling myself no you are healthy instead of saying not and then lack what do you want be like you are healthy you are going to be okay all this stuff and then that still didn't really make me feel better cuz I'm still kind of Unknowing and then I literally came to the conclusion that I don't [ __ ] know I like the only truth right now is that I don't know what's going to happen but there are measures I can take to take control of my health as best as I can and the rest is up to the universe but the more I stress about the more I think about it is creating more this state of reaction myself is taking me out of the present moment to be able to enjoy and perform the way I know I can and I'm not able to enjoy it and I still Battle of course sometimes I didn't just forget about it but just the understanding and Baseline that I don't know the future so I have to let go of some of those things the only thing that really helped my mind get through all that times and I mean continuously now when I compete and I'm like am I going to get sick be like I don't know but when it happens you're going to deal with it and you'll be okay so just enjoy this moment right now what's your inner voice like now because I've heard you talk about battles with depression and anxiety in the past that's something that I dealt with throughout all of my 20s as well and me reflecting on the change in the texture of my own mind through a lot of self-work and a lot of external work too like I can't pretend like the external accolades of the world me proving to the world and the world saying that yes you are good enough because the things that you have applied yourself to have been uh you've been given the the rewards that you wanted um but yeah what what's your inner voice like now as someone who used to deal with depression and anxiety I was definitely more leaning into the anxious more rather than depressed and that was more like just projecting the future based off unhealed wounds from the past and fears of what happened the past was going to repeat itself but now I think my inner voice is just and it's a constant work I'm doing I think mental health in general is like putting in reps it's not just like oh I'm good it's like continuously giving yourself the love you need mentally and physically and I'm just trying to build a lot more empathy and compassion for myself cuz I didn't directly shame myself being like you're not good enough you're a piece of [ __ ] all this [ __ ] but I would be like I expected more of myself like we were talking with public speaking I'm like you just won four olympias and now you're literally like heart racing can barely breathe cuz you're about to talk in front of like a few hundred people like you should be able to do this you're better than this and that's a form of shame in itself of expecting something out of myself that maybe I'm not ready for or just rather than accepting who I am and where I'm at in my life so I think just building that compassion and being like accepting who I am and who I am isn't what this like this perception that maybe people have built with me and you know I believe you had this guy on Peter Crone I love that guy he has this quote and he says life presents you as people and circumstances to show you where you're not free and I think that the way I spoke about my inner voice and this expectation of myself with where I wasn't free and then life put me in this position of millions of people with this idolized perception of someone they look up to was calm cool collected have this [ __ ] together seum he's so good he's up there and I was like I really have to be that now like I better be [ __ ] perfect now you know my dad was like that growing up too so I had this like okay men are stoic and they don't feel anything and they can they weather the storm and they're good and I just was like emot a very sentient being like emotional and I was like [ __ ] so I kind of denied that part of myself for a while but now being able to just integrate that and accepting it is who I am and being able to show it more and allow it to come up more in situations like I almost try and twist some conversation to like allow myself to be like I'm not perfect I have anxiety I just to like show that it's there and then being like well now this facade kind of gone the presentation isn't to be what people want me to be it's just to be myself and whatever happens after that can [ __ ] off so I guess overall the inner voice in myself I'm building is just more compassion and empathy I would say so too I remember um I did this workout high-intensity interval workout thing on a an assault bike MH and this guy that was coaching me at the time asked me to try and remember where my mind went to when my heart got into zone five yeah so whatever like 160 170 BPM and above and the voice this was probably six or seven years ago and uh the voice that came back was [ __ ] awful like it was so just this sucks you're not good enough uh Panic uh uh like tightness and and and Terror and I did a workout again a couple of months actually no it was two weeks ago with Tim Kennedy you know Tim UFC guy he's like like a professional bad guy but he works for the US government anyway uh I did this workout with him and my heart rate must have got to that same place and it's the first time I've done it since then and the words that came back to me were so different I couldn't believe it I was like oh my God I thought that was the I I genuinely thought that was the physics of my own uh inner experience these just unch yeah these are just the unchanging Dynamics these are the laws of the ins inside of did you find over time you had done like you had to work on it and put in reps and like understand or was it just purely your physical like abilities and success and the world telling you you're good and the podcast succeeding all this [ __ ] was it that or was it more personal like reflection and empathy so or both I I think both I I would love to be able to say you know just 1500 sessions of meditation and a couple of good siloc cybin trips and you know that was me sorted but it it would be a lie to say that the world telling you or you proving to the world and the world saying back answering back that yes you are good enough I think it's unrealistic to have confidence when you don't have an undeniable stack of proof that you are who you say you are like if if the only place that your confidence exists is in your mind and you've never manifested it into reality then what you're asking for isn't confidence it's delusion yeah because how can you say that you are all of these things I'm a really great husband I feel like a great husband but I go out and cheat on my wife every night well I there's an in congruence here but you can behave in the way of being a great husband and not believe it yourself because you have unhealed traumas from the past and stuff like that so it's definitely both um but yeah it's it's just really really important I think for people to hear that the answer to the holes and the voids that you feel inside of yourself if the guy that's won Mr Olympia four times in a row is telling you that the inner work is an important part of that process and that upon winning the first one the main sensation was relief not happiness what are you where do you think that you're going to get this from if you're seeking outside of yourself validation to fix something that's inside it's being smart enough to like balance that too and like know the work you have to put in so like you have to earn the right like you said you can't just tell yourself there delusion you have to earn the right to get there you have to put in the work and then you have to kind of like lean into the okay now I'm really putting in the work now I need to work on how why I'm talking to myself so negatively or not but unless you have both there it doesn't really work it's like 1 plus one equals two you can't really do one without the other what else does it mean to have a champion mentality to you I know that you talk about this a lot what are the principles that you rely on for that again something that definitely elevated over time I literally just put that on a shirt once because it sounded cool and I was like oh [ __ ] like this there's more to this and I think the biggest thing was originally it was like just winning and it evolved into just like a no quit mentality it's accepting these fears I have this doubts I have this everything that goes through my mind but regardless of that not quitting and not giving up on myself no matter how hard is the time what I'm going through and whatever [ __ ] I feel it's I'm going to still put in the same work regardless of how I feel and that's a champion mentality because Champion is not controlled by their outside circumstances they control their own mind inside and how they act and then the world goes on around them it was a huge aspect of that and I'm also now leaning into I really think like greatness and champions not only Elevate themselves but the people around them and I think it's you are put into a position where you can help whether you're close people around you people who follow you people who look up to you whatever it might be anyone in your life you're in a position now of greatness where you can Elevate others up to a higher level and being able to inspire them bring them up to be better people is part of what makes you great rather than just the selfish Act of being you being the best for yourself why is it important to not let anyone hear you complain I've heard you talk about this it's more so that's a quote I took that was old quote I think I've accepted that one a little bit more but it's more so just not living in the in the negativity you know life's going to get suck but the more you focus your perception on it you know the way you see the world is what the world is if I choose to be like you know today sucks I'm tired I don't want want to do cardio I'm [ __ ] 2 weeks out eating, 1500 calories like this sucks that's what I'm talking about that's all I'm going to live in I'm going to be like bodybuilding sucks prep sucks why do I do this but if I'm like this suffering is literally what's going to make me great and it's going to bring me that amazing moment on stage and all these memories of everything and this like it's pushing me to these limits that I know make me feel proud of myself and all these things if I focus more on the positive side of things I'm going to enjoy the reality regardless of the change the circumstances can be the exact same but your perception changes everything about how you feel about it and I think a lot of people who are successful or who are bodybuilders usually kind of tap out because they make it seem like this miserable thing oh [ __ ] I have to start dieting oh I got to do cardio and then you're just like complaining about it and why would you want to do anything you complain about every day rather than understanding that the choice and the Beautiful things that come from it are what you should be focusing on and leads some more Progressive growth well I mean think about any Champion that you imagine in your mind do they complain like is is a champion the person that complains yeah no there's a guy called Josh Whit skin he was the guy that the film seeking Bobby Fisher was written about so he's a chess Prodigy at a young age and he decided to just abscond CH he was seen as the new American Phenom right Wonder kid absolute Beast as a child and he gets basically to the top of the game of chess and then decides to leave he goes into Chinese Push Hands it's like like fighting Tai Chi kind of gets to the top of that Sport and then exits again like you can't contact him on the internet he doesn't have a website but this guy's a savant MH and he did an episode with Tim Ferris and he was talking to Tim about the way that him and his son reframed the weather and he was saying that a lot of parents will say to their son or daughter uh we can't go outside to play today because it's raining isn't it a shame that we can't go outside to play because it's raining which puts all of the Power outside WEA correct all of the power is outside so him him and his son have worked very hard on saying things like what a beautiful day it's raining outside we should go outside and play in the r and I think that there's so much uh wonderful Insight in that reframe that he's giving it seems like it's the same definitely yeah and there's an example I don't really talk about it because it sounds a little [ __ ] up to say but when I was young I used to always look at the clock and see 911 I don't know why but I would look at it and it would say 911 and I would be like [ __ ] like something's bad going happen and I would worry like that I'm like and I was a little kid at the time and I don't know if it was just like manifesting it but I would like every day for a while look at the clock and that would be the time and then when I was growing up I was like instead of like constantly living and like thinking this is bad why don't I switch that like kid something horrible happened on that date and I'm like terribly grieving of all the people and that's horrible but then oh hang on hang on hang on hang on this was after 911 this was after I thought you were talking about you were some premonition oh no I'm not that old [ __ ] yeah you would have been what like six when it happened something six yeah I don't know I thought you I thought you were like the child from the [ __ ] Fifth Element or whatever it is I mean I wish I actually no I I'm glad I cannot read the future I would never want that okay yeah yeah yeah but yeah anyways it was instead of me fearing the number now every time I see it cuz I still see it all the time it was like okay like people died for this but like our country is still like standing people are still instead of now making them death and making ruining my day why don't I see it as good luck you know this is like a good luck momentum for me like I'm on the right path like people see 11-11 I see this and this means I'm just moving in the right direction 911 is a good good luck moment for you if you choose for it to be it's if your perception and now I see I'm like [ __ ] yeah we're on cheack let's go and instead of me being like something's going to happen I feel better about it and just reframing your mind you know okay and I'm not trying to like put anything positive on what happened because it was horrible but I know what you mean try not to [ __ ] up my own mind you know yeah in other news this episode is brought to you by eight sleep it is unbearably hot in Austin Texas at the moment and I'm exclusively being kept Alive by my eight sleep pod Pro cover the Pod Pro cover actively cools and heats each side of the bed so if you or your partner sleep hot or cold it can keep the temperature absolutely perfect as you progress through your night's sleep it'll actively adjust the temperature based on your sleep stage it tracks your sleep it tracks your heart rate variability your resting heart rate how much you're breathing throughout the night it's incredible and it does all of this by just slipping over the top of an existing mattress that you have good sleep is the ultimate GameChanger and if you are focusing on your sleep if you want to improve your rest and your recovery this is an awesome place to begin best of all they deliver internationally and you can get $150 off any pod Pro cover by going to 8sleep.com slod wisdom that's EIG ghts sleep.com slod wisdom you mentioned it earlier on 6 weeks out from the Olympia you were on the bathroom floor crying mhm can you take me through the story of that day where your mind was at what life was like at that time and sort of what the texture of your own existence was like that led up to that point yeah for sure I mean there's part of it I actually can't touch on it's just too private but it was Olympia I'd been prepping for weeks a lot going on in my life something happened within my family that was really stressful that I'm not going to touch on but it greatly impacting us going forward and causing a lot of stress and anxiety in myself and my whole family and we had just moved to Florida all this [ __ ] going on self fears about my health and I had gotten a sign of my health going wrong this inflammation in my shins I get edema and I started to get that a little bit fat shins fat shins fat shins yeah fat shins cankles they're not quite cankles but they're just my shins get fat you know so I'm getting this edema in it all this personal stuff on the side and it just I didn't speak about anything it was just like okay wake up do cardio you know go to the gym go to work do this do that just don't think about it put it down push it down push and I kept doing that and then I just I think with my fiance she was noticing I was a little bit off and why like having good people around you [ __ ] every everything when you have like a stressful life and she just knew something was off and she's like are you good like how are you doing I'm like I'm good she asked me again she's like are you good I'm like yeah I'm okay like she's and then I was like in the bathroom she came in like are you okay I'm like yeah and she asked me one more time she's like are you like look at me are you okay and I just started balling and I had no idea I didn't know I was that stressed out I just was like numb and I just started balling like hit the floor was just sobbing I was like I just feel like the world's crashing out on me right now I feel like all this shit's going on externally and I'm just trying to focus on the Olympia I've won too I have to be better I'm getting so close I feel behind like all this shit's going on now I have this business all this chaos going on in my life and I just like I don't know if I can handle this and she's just like yeah [ __ ] yeah like of course you feel like that like no [ __ ] and she's like I don't know why like you can share this with me like the world is on your shoulders it's [ __ ] stressed out right now and it should be this is a a lot of opportunity in front of you and if you want to quit you can but I know you and I know you won't and right now do you just need to sit in this cry let it out I'm here with you but I know you're going to get out from this you're going to go to the gym you're going to kill your work you're going to wake up and you're going to keep doing that but this was normal part of what you're going through this is she was literally like you don't think Michael Jordan ever broke down and felt like he couldn't handle the stress that was on him like building the NBA into what it was not even just his team I was like [ __ ] like yeah he didn't talk about it though and she was like well [ __ ] yeah none of them knew no men know how to talk about their emotions properly and it just like it just she just like built this confidence in me I was just like [ __ ] yeah of course like this is a huge pressure that a lot going on and I'm stressed what's wrong with that I'm not going to let it control me but I'm allowed to feel this moment right now and that was just like wow you know like I can lean on people people are there to help me I can share how I feel and someone's going to actually make me feel better cuz my whole life it was just bottle everything up you can handle it all by yourself you know you're a man you can handle this [ __ ] and I was just like no you know like I'm allowed to feel but who I am is not going to be controlled by these feelings so it was just a huge moment I mean and in our relationship too you know like I'm everyone is with a family alone like I have stress having to provide for a family like the ultimate and the men who feel like they have to provide and like the world is on their shoulders they don't understand that like their wife and their family wants to help them like they might not make it easier but like they'll get under that weight with you and they'll hold that with you and it's not a burden to them cuz I always felt like asking for help would make me a burden I'd be like I'm just going to make someone else's life harder so like they're stressed out over there I don't want to add to that I'm just going to be okay over here but it actually makes them feel close to you makes them it gives them people want to be wanted God yeah you ask someone for help they're like [ __ ] yeah like I feel good about myself today cuz I help this person and it really brought our relationship closer in that moment it made her feel like I just helped him in this part where he said he can do it all by himself all the time and now like I'm like [ __ ] yeah like I really needed that and it was a really important moment for my personal growth Champion growth relationship growth there's a a meme at the moment of the sort of Lone Wolf Sigma male guy that's making great things happen on his own yeah I'm pretty sure that you are the footage that's used over the top of a lot of these Sigma Man memes in any case yeah could you do this on your own [ __ ] no no none of it I couldn't do my YouTube without Calvin I couldn't have started my businesses without Maddie I couldn't be doing raw supplements without Dom and Matt who are my partners in that I wouldn't be the man who I am without my dad I wouldn't be able to have gotten through my stress as a teenager without my sister I wouldn't have gotten through the last four olympias without Courtney like it's just like I almost get emotional thinking about it but when I like reflect back on like what I'm most grateful for it's always the people in my life and I'm so [ __ ] lucky it's like crazy like the people I have in my life for everything and the relationships I like build mean the world to me I literally like Cry Sometimes by myself like doing like a gratitude reflection or something but it's it's relationships in my life for everything and I just I know I wouldn't be where I am without it and I would never be the one to think I could do it all by myself wasn't there a story of your parents waiting in line to get your autograph one time they've been to every Olympia and they go to the athlete meet greet and they waited for like an hour in line or something I was like what the [ __ ] are you doing Mom and they're like we don't want to bother you we just want a picture I'm like you're [ __ ] crazy like you're a VIP you can come backstage you can do whatever you want here yeah they're just and that's like that's that humility that they raised me though you know they never expect anything and they're just always quietly there in the background to support me I wonder whether part of that humility is maybe where you not wanting to lean under the people comes from I I I do think it's part of it for sure and I mean my dad is still like my number one role model but he didn't ask for help even if he wanted to do something with me he wouldn't like building a fence I'd have to be like hey Dad do you want me to help and he like love that but he wouldn't have asked you know he like all this like no matter what my family was going through dad was just like there standing upale philosophy isn't it work all of it he had it and I'm like how the [ __ ] did you do that for so long have you ever asked him about it I have and now that I've gotten to this age I've like gone to him I'm like do you ever like just feel like [ __ ] exploding and just like stressed and he he's like not really no and I'm like what the [ __ ] that they made him different man they made him different in the0 he was built different yeah and he comes from a family that was very resilient too from a small town you know working class throughout the generations and he's just like he's a beast but I had to really learn that that's not normal that's it's not me and I had to accept that but it was that's what was definitely part of the journey so I think that's definitely trying to have too much of a prescription about how you're supposed to go about things oh well this is the way that men are supposed to be like on average there are ways that men and women are and there are sex differences between the two of us and there are ways that men from Canada and men from Britain will different etc etc people from different classes people that were born at different times but I think that you're a really good role model for somebody who has a particular programming and as opposed to trying to retrofit you into some mold that isn't you when you did that that was when you found friction yeah exactly and that was when there was in congruence and that's when you weren't able to enjoy things because you weren't able to fully embody all of this stuff yeah and also it seems like a big part of it is finding a partner who's prepared to see vulnerability as a strength rather than a weakness for sure yeah but she's also seen both sides she's seen like the utmost resilience of what I've been through and like she's like I don't know she's like something's going to happen to you this year something happens every year but it's probably not going to affect you she's like it'll stress you out but you're still going to win the Olympia because I know I know you can do it cuz I've shown her that proof you know I've shown her that and now I've also shown the emotional side and she's like okay yeah he's going to [ __ ] break down and cry in front of me but he's going to get up tomorrow and get back to work so it's like it's that yin and yang of being able to like complement the masculine with the feminine and intertwine it in the right balance that whatever works for you without kind of holding you back and that's honestly part of the I mean I could have th000 bullet points on a champion mentality but I used to look up to people and I still do like Michael Jordan but that's not [ __ ] me that's not how I going to be a champion forever he wanted to kill everyone and [ __ ] took stuff personally everything with a battle to the death of being the best and like I don't feel like that but that's okay I can still be a champ there's no rules to being a champion you know you make a champion makes his own rules and rides out the wave like that I like that did you watch the newold documentary talking about Champions haven't yet no wow I mean he's it's very interesting especially because you'll have seen Pumping Iron I'm going to guess so I'm I probably haven't watched that for about 10 years now but um reflecting on that era of not only bodybuilding but America in general it's so romanticized like it's so cool I told one of my friends this we were driving from Austin to Houston to go to a bachelor party and as I was going past it's just endless freeways and huge factories with flags that are 100 ft in the air and the flag's 40 ft high and it's slowly waving it's a pretty you know it's not a country that I even like I'm from but it's pretty patriotic you think Fu that's cool but it made me nostalgic for an era that feels like it's almost sort of Fallen away and watching um the Arnold do really reminded me of that sort of unbounded Blue Sky Vision that everybody had it was pretty [ __ ] cool but for the people who have seen the Arnold stuff and are maybe less familiar with what's happening in your world of bodybuilding at the moment what the differences between Arnold's era and yours now in classic physique like physically yeah essentially I mean obviously you look back at sports too everything progresses over time we get more efficient with nutrition with dieting with Peds with rest with recovery everything just gets more efficient and everything excels and you push limits further and further so now I mean open bodybuilding is just you look at it and you don't even question that they're even the same as sport classes no Lim no weight limits dudes are on stage at 300 lbs like 3% body fat just [ __ ] monster it's like huge stuff you can't even fathom like when I see him in person so I'm like wow that's a real person which is insane but back in back in the Arnold days it was purely like it was bigger upper bodies legs weren't massive you weren't shredded it was more about being full and round and just like aesthetic and which is what classic physique was brought in for but even still the contrast classic physique versus like the Arnold era it's way leaner now it's still getting to just as lean as the open bodybuilders it's like shredded glutes you know your ass is just stried at the end of the day feathered quads just looks like you have no body fat on you and probably probably about the same weight I think Arnold was 240 on stage approximately and my weight cap is 240 I'm about 239 when I weigh in so we're about the same weight just like now it's required to be a lot less body fat so if you put uh Arnold and serge nu uh on stage now they would look aesthetically pleasing but their condition would be significantly different to the guys that are up there now you yeah it would be yeah it wouldn't be the same but what would be interesting is if you could put Arnold to be born in 1990 and then come up in this time those genetic and with all the stuff now what would he look like Serge would be even bigger freak Arnold's a goat because he did it first but I think Serge would be like insane to see in our generation is there a part of you that wishes obviously you'd have to the family would have to come back and the misses and all of that stuff but is there a part of you that wishes that you could have had a crack during the Golden Era as well no I've never really thought of that honestly I really think this era right now just perfectly like where I meant to be and obviously it's been working up pretty [ __ ] great so far so I don't temp fate with that I'm just grateful for where I'm at I read a story that you bought an inversion table is this true I did but it came in it came with a 100 like page pamphlet and like 500 like instructions to put it together and I never put it together right so there's a story that says you bought an inversion table so that you could make yourself a quarter of an inch taller so that you could get an extra 10 pound weight limit in your category I tried yeah I did but I didn't put it together I went to a chiropractor consistently and they have a machine that stretches your spine a machine that just pulls you is that not just the medieval rack is that not a torture thing like you've got a peasant with one of those floppy caps on like Lord we'll get you one inch taller literally yeah it looks more like Frankenstein you like sit in this machine like upright and then it tilts you down and they have a thing around your waist that just pulls your spine right and I did that for a while but I'm like I'm just over 61 so I'd have to grain a full inch to be over 62 so I'm like it I would never do it but I also don't want to shrink so I I've definitely tried a few things I hang from bars all the time to elongate my spine it's also just good for your spine but yes classic physique is just a battle to be taller essentially to make your weight I've seen a bunch of rumors on the internet saying that if the timing was right you would roll straight from a classic physique show potentially into an open show definitely thought about it yeah have you really I have but there's no open shows after the Olympia there's like one in Japan but I would want to do like a decent show I'd rather Stack Up Beside like a top 10 Olympian and see like how do you think you get on it depends on the show if you were to put me in the Olympia if you put me in the Olympia the way I look in classic right now i' think I would do top I would hit the top 10 but I think if I was able to like be a little bit less leaner and Fuller and like I always have to diet down about 5 lbs of muscle just to make my weight so if I were able to be like full as [ __ ] like sometimes on my check-in pictures when I'm four weeks out and I have a high carb day I'm like I'm an open bodybuild right now this is crazy I would love to just see what this looks like on stage I think I could be like top give me a year and I think I could be top 15 in like Olympia but is there no there's no part of you that's like [ __ ] I should give that a crack no more than just that like the this banter like I just really truly like I love classic physique and I love what it like pushes what it inspires people to be more so than like when I was young I literally was about to quit bodybuilding in 2016 because there I turned Pro and I was like I either have to be 300 lb or go down to men's physique and I wasn't wearing board shorts and I wasn't getting 300 lb so I was going to retire but then literally that year classic physique came out and I was like this is for me I'll give it a shot and then it just ran with it yeah it seems so perfect in terms of the timing for you and in terms of being able to find a spot that you actually enjoyed that wasn't going to make you go too freaky so what would you need to do let's say that you did go across to open what would you have to do to your Physique in order to be able to uh improve a lot of it would be so right now I give my body a lot of rest after the Olympia I compete once a year and I take like three months off the Olympia and then coming back and just like relearning proper training patterns perfecting my form like making sure I'm healthy and so if I were to really want to do the open I'd have to like take like a week off the rest and then get back to work hold all that weight and just start growing for a full eight month and I don't push food hard right now I go like I'll cycle my calories if I start to get too fat I'm like oh don't pull it back down I would just have to like lean into the fat put on a little CH I wouldn't be like fat fat but I like being lean consistently lean enough to like feel good I'd have to put on a lot of weight and just eat consistently my training would be the exact same it would be mainly food a little bit more PDS of course but just kind of dabbling around that I think I could do it with just food though that would be [ __ ] great man i' would love to say it's such a shame that you can't do that there's um the 100 mile record for endurance racing running and the 24-hour record for a while when it was still a relatively new title were often broken together yeah cuz I think it takes I might be wrong let's say it takes like uh 14 hours or 12 hours or something to get 100 and then people would just continue that pace or try and continue that pace and break the 2 for Zack bitter this guy from Austin did it he broke both records in one it'd be so [ __ ] cool for somebody to like break through one and then go place a really great show I don't want to even think like like I said if they let me do both in the same day it wouldn't be good cuz I'm too sucked down to make weight so I think I would look pretty small up there what body fat do you step on stage at you got any idea have you ever been in a dexa I haven't no I don't even try and guess because everyone on the internet's like oh Ronnie Coleman came on and said he was like 0% or something and people were like I don't think that's possible if I had to guess I think it would be like four I think it was just [ __ ] around but people took it seriously but I think I would be around four or five if I had to like be conservative and to get into the open category you'd have to you would be able to lose a tiny bit of condition yeah a little bit Yeah my like CU my structure it would kind of make up for my conditioning I think we'll get back to talking to Chris in one minute but first I need to tell you about element I'm going to look there you're going to throw it and I'm just going to catch it cuz I'm I'm I'm epic right we'll get back to talking to Chris in one minute but first I need to tell you about element element is a science backed electrolyte ratio of sodium potassium and magnesium with no gluten no coloring no artificial ingredients or any other BS it is the way that I have started my morning every single day for over three years now video guine uses it and it is an awesome beautiful very enjoyable drink proper hydration plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue whilst optimizing brain health and regulating appetite best of all they've got a no BS no questions asked refund policy with unlimited duration so you can buy it and if you do not like it for any reason you can get your money back and you don't even need to return the box that's how confident they are that you love it head to drink LM nt.com sodern wisdom to get a free sample pack of all eight flavors with any purchase that's drink LM nt.com slod wisdom talk to me about your morning routine what does that look like typically depends on time of year really okay so let's say offseason and prep offseason I wake up and I usually just do a bit of light cardio what sort of time do you typically get up it's been brutal lately I've been in different time zones for the last 6 months so it's just whatever time zone I'm on okay but lately I've just been not putting on alarm and I've been waking up at about 7:30 8:00 or so lately and I normally wake up and I just do like a little bit of cardio just like 20 minutes just to make sure my appetite's going and then I have a cold plunge I usually dip my legs in there at least if not my full body and just like are up to my waist then shower eat go to work what will you tend to have offseason what will breakfast look like it again it varies consistently I get sick of food really quick especially breakfast food so I usually don't like eating eggs when I'm eating a lot of food so I normally just make a smoothie and then I'll have like oatmeal like blended into the smoothie and some like Ezekiel bread toast and almond butter M okay and then what about prep which I'm guessing is significantly more dialed prep evolves and like I just I'm not trying to like I evolve I'm very very fluid like I my routines are like what time do you train depends on the time of year like it's just wherever I feel natural I just kind of flow into that state and do what I can and I kind of thrive in that structure rather than really regimented but in prep I'll wake up in the morning and I usually will like do like a breath work thing I get sucked in that and it's not even for like At first I tried to do it for like mental to like kind of like tap deep into my mind and now it's just literally to oxygenate my body before like waking up doing cardio cuz I realized if I did a little bit of breath work and like just like you know like Wim Hoff style like three rounds of 30 breaths and hold an exhale repeat three rounds in the morning and then I went and did cardio I didn't eat caffeine I was wide awake and I could like blast through my cardio way easier and I just felt way better wow and then after that I'll usually sauna or cold tub combine it I'll always cold tub if I sauna cuz I like finishing with cold and then cardio will be higher at that point and then I'll go shower and eat and the goal that I do in the mornings it's nothing crazy like it's just simple as that but I usually try and put my phone on airplan mode when I go to bed and not look at it until this shit's done yeah that's such a hack do you sleep well if it's on airpl mode it doesn't matter but I'm going to guess you sleep with your phone outside of your bedroom as well um I still usually keep it I usually that alarm still or I just have it in the corner of the room and it's on airplane mode but I just don't it's basically a brick until air gets turned off yeah are you not concerned at all there's a lot of talk on the internet about reducing inflammation through using cold plunge when you're trying to maximize hypertrophy is this something that you're not particularly worried about I think there's a lot of and again I'm not the Science Guy but I've looked into it too and I never started doing it for purely recovery and hypertrophy I started doing it because of my autoimmune and just overall systemic inflammation and health and I just knew that it would be better for me to reduce my inflammation and so I what I looked into was it was saying that immediately after a workout when you're getting that like high inflammation response which is we sending blood and nutrients to the muscle to recover that's when you want to avoid it so I'll typically if I do like a long like a 10-minute session that's on my rest day but if I'm just doing it in the morning I do it in the morning and then I don't work out till later in the day and I don't do it after I work out so I have a full two meals go to sleep wake up in the morning and I'll do it then and it hasn't affected me at all if anything it's it's helped my joints from being overly inflamed so I can continually train and push myself so if I lose like 2% hypertrophy but my joints feel better to train arer to me the outcome is just worth it it's a trade-off yeah yeah what about walks and stuff like cardio yeah continuing to just get yourself moving sunlight exposure stuff like that yeah think like do I do it or do it real I definitely do it more in prep again I definitely slack off more than I should in my offseason but I do cardio in my offseason so that I can eat I usually just do a treadmill in there but when I'm in prep I'll just like roam around outside a little bit after a meal just to make sure I'm digesting properly and also to take my mind off life sometime to just kind of relax but I'm not too like crazy methodical with these things I just make sure everything's on point and then if my digestion ever goes to [ __ ] that's when I start manipulating things but I'm super consistent my food so normally my digestion is pretty good tell you what's crazy have you ever worn a a glucose monitor one of those things on the back of your arm if you ever do that and it doesn't even need to be a particularly high carb meal but if you spike your glucose and then go on a walk the difference is unbelievable yeah yeah yeah it just seems to mediate insulin sensitivity so well um and there's also muscles I think that cross basically across your stomach that when you walk that sort of controlateral movement that actually helps uh digestion okay so yeah walks after um after food St Mill the back pain specialist is one guy that gave me that forever and ever and ever ago and uh yeah trying to do that that's one advantage of living near a park you know or or being in a house think Florida though yeah it'll like 110 degrees in humid so if if I'm in the office and I go take a walk outside and come back trench and sweat yeah true might be good for the uh for the calorie burn but that's one thing I was I was talking to a couple of friends about that moved into this awesome new apartment complex one of the things that you don't see is a price that you pay is if you do want to go out for a walk Take 5 minutes yeah it's 5 minutes to get downstairs or if you take the stairs that could be part of your walk uh yeah the stairs are kind of lame though aren't they they're kind of tough yeah but going downstairs is at least good for your knees so true what are you doing for knee Health are you into the knees over toes stuff at all have you g into this I I I've dabbled in that I downloaded the app for my dad cuz he has the issues and then I don't think he used it so I just started using it myself and I just took some things that like like I found I could put into my routine super easily like walking backwards with a weight and when I don't have like a sled I'll do it on the treadmill turned off y I'll just turn off the treadmill and push the tread and I'll warm up like that I go on the stairs walk up it turn around walk backwards I've seen videos if you're going backwards upstairs yeah yeah I trained my like tibia rather than just my calves too some band stuff pushing my knee backwards I've definitely implemented that and it seems to be helping okay so if you only had 10 exercises for the rest of time that's all you have in your libr to stay as muscular as possible give me the list so the the goal is to be as muscular as possible correct if I were let's say I'm competing and I have 10 exercises sure all right [ __ ] sor I'm G have to count it on my hands um squats why just overall leg growth they help glutes quads like a large portion of the leg that back squ barbell back squat super simple if it's my whole life I might actually do some miss machine squats because it'll help my knees a little bit be a little bit easier okay plus stability and people hate me for that but I love squatting in the SM machine all right I got a lot of [ __ ] for that um deadlifts just to get something that'll Target the my hamstrings and so I don't have to take out another 10 of two something to hamstring focus and glute and back focus um Pull-Ups so I can hit my back and biceps in one over hun under H hand neutral oh neutral G neutral probably yeah it's a little bit more Latin biceps yep y make sure my arms are going um incline dumbbell press uhhuh I find incline's a little bit better on your shoulders so if you're doing it's the only ex said you can do you won't [ __ ] up your shoulders as much and dumbbell it'll just keep you a little bit more symmetrical I love that I've always loved that exercise which is weird because uh inclin barbell press is one of the most uncomfortable for my shoulders really you can do dumbbell yeah most people feel better with dumbbell because you can go to position for you yeah okay how many is that that's four that's four yeah yeah six left this is going to be hard with like I'd like have to make a list of 20 and cut out but um the autism is put to one side for now doing this in our heads together um dumbbell shoulder press uhhuh seated seated dumbbell shoulder press yeah I think that'll help your triceps and shoulders a lot um maybe a a close grip flat bench different part of the chest and triceps getting there yeah yeah yeah yeah four left dumbbell curl just something specific soad that how do you want to live without doing does even physique I just need it for my mindset exactly with that are you uh supern you again this is the only one that you're going to get he's seated he's standing uh standing supern okay good good the go the the OG of dumbbell Co OG yeah and it's got to be one arm at a time it can't be both arms together it's got to be one arm one at a time yeah yeah six is the basics good stuff um I think you've got three left I got three left thinking what parts of the body I'm missing right now Cales probably oh [ __ ] yeah there's no c in there you do you're not going to get it with anything else a little bit on a deadlift but maybe I'll just do stairs on the side and not tell you about that okay fine You' still got three exercises you only needed seven so far ah damn did I say bent over a row no bent over a row okay it'll that'll help like stability like core as well uh and then like lower back and obviously upper back yeah because the only back exercise that you've had so far is the pull-up deadlifts and pull-ups yeah bent over rows yeah okay yeah yeah um so I got two left yeah probably like a hanging leg raise just to make sure your core is getting hit you're not like [ __ ] up your back and then this is a tough one I think I'm trying to like focus on either lateral raises or like a overhead tricep extension cuz I haven't had a lot of like specific triceps I would probably do lateral raises just to get some medy delts over [ __ ] yeah just do you've got the close grip and you've got the uh incline press yeah so interesting so Ryan Terry who I know that you've trained with before I asked him the same question and his ab exercise as well was hanging leg raises yeah it seems to be the industry Insider F I'm not the perfect person that I just I always try and work on my lower abs because it's harder for me to contract those rather than upper and that's usually when your stomach hangs out and on bodybuilding stage you don't want your like gut hanging out essentially what pulls it in is the lower part and when you do a hanging leg res or like lying leg raise it hits that part more and also like hanging from a bar is really good for your shoulders and spine so you're kind of hit two birds with one stone one of my friends Alex who basically has an unlimited budget said that he'd been to every shoulder specialist on the planet he like I've spoken to every single person all of them most expensive specialist in the world the best thing that I've found is hanging from a bar from a bar hanging from a [ __ ] crazy yeah yeah it's wild uh I think he does it I think he ends up like um strapping up uh and just hanging from there for about 90 seconds a couple of times a day I'd heard a rumor I don't know whether you'd heard this that because we'd spent so much time as uh primates swinging through the trees that the way that our shoulder still articulates like that position yeah is still one that's very comfortable to us and I would I'm going to get torn apart by people who understand biomechanics in in the comments but um there's supposed to be a little bit of Truth to that and it definitely feels nice for sure I mean even if you're standing in a doorway and you just like do this and you're you're just chilling like you just feel better you know what about your future CrossFit career so we've spoken about what you've done what you've done so far but before we started you've said that you want to take up CrossFit once you finished yeah I mean I just I used to be very athletic when I was young was really what got me into bodybuilding I just loved Sports I played like six of them when I was younger and I would like to get back to that like form of feeling like I can run I'm strong I can do a lot of body weight exercises I could train anywhere in the world and just kind of like challenging my body in a new way CU I'm obviously not going to be hitting any PRS in the gym or being heavier than I've ever been than I am in my Peak bodybuilding career though just finding a new goal to focus on I might dabble in that but it's more of like an athletic training that like you can call Crossfit okay it's um it's so funny to think that the particular sport that you chose to go after actually has a load of restrictions on it like it's very very consistent very repetitive by its nature not a team sport you know there's a bunch of different things that it constrains you from doing you know what do you weigh now how heavy are you I'm about 262 right now 260 right you said you could dunk a year ago though I could at 260 I got a video of it so I'm not ly no way did you put it online it is online yeah [ __ ] yeah uh but yeah my point being that a game of pickup you know 30- minute game of pickup basketball probably be not very good for your knees no I I did it last year I was telling you that yeah I went play with a bunch of the guys here we played probably played for almost an hour it was pretty long and I could not walk for a week like it was just inflammation and pain I was just sitting in the so bizarre right because you think athlete professional athlete what do you do for a living I I like Fitness things yeah but people often don't call bodybuilder athletes it's not that Fitness yeah and you also said that after your last crossfit workout you'd had a cough for like 10 days after yeah there's a I can't remember what they call it there's a specific person they named the cough after Fran cough yeah yeah yeah did you do Fran is that the workout I don't think so okay but you got Fran got Fran cof from like really gentle workout walking on the dread you know yeah no I'm not that bad yeah it's thinking about what people want to do once they retire so to speak yeah um and the fact that you've had all of these different physical Outlets that have been like I can't do that and better not do what if iure an ACL that's not going to be very good for yeah so you are very much constrained with this in other news this episode is brought to you by a product I've used every single day for over three years now and that is ag1 it's a foundational nutrition supplement that covers whole body Health helps with my digestion it helps with my energy it is the staple to my supplement regime and it's the same for Dr Andrew hubman Joe Rogan Lex Friedman Tim Ferris all of them have been using it for a very long time and that's because they invest in the highest quality ingredients they've upgraded the recipe 52 times over the last decade as new research has come in also there is a 90-day money back guarantee so you can buy it and try it for 89 days and if you do not like it they will give you your money back if you're looking for a simpler effective investment for your health try ag1 get five free ag1 travel packs plus a year Supply vitamin D and that 90-day money back guarantee by going to drink a1.com wisdom that's drink a1.com wisdom when it comes to your training what's with the no shoes thing it's just part of a I mean there's a movement online honestly but I just discovered it by accident I wore Converse my whole life up until I was like 20 years old and I started to get bunions on my foot where like my toes were just like angled way far out to like outwards and then my the side of my foot started to really hurt and I was also getting really bad knee pain and I was like what the [ __ ] wrong with my feet and I realized my feet don't fit in Converse I have really wide feet I'm a size 13 like e like super wide and I'm wearing the most narrow shoe you could fathom so I decided to start taking off and training Barefoot I started rocking like socks and birken stocks which people used to roast me for but now it's in style so not cool now but working out in the gym it just felt better to like I was doing like toe exercises where I would spread my toes I was wearing toes spacers and just the gym was just a place where I didn't have to wear shoes so I could like trained and sucks and I just felt better and over time I didn't do a whole lot of other things a few other things but my knees just started to feel better my squat started to feel a little bit more natural yeah have I seen footage of you walking on your treadmill in the morning in barefoot shoes as well yeah yeah I've ordered I've had like had Vios LMS zero and maybe one other but I've tried like all what's your favorite what have you finished on I'm between the zeros and LMS LMS are more comfortable if you're wearing if you're barefoot in them if you're not wearing socks which I I feel like it's the point of it so I always Barefoot yeah people are getting into this man Mark Bell's power project and seamer and all of those guys when I went down there everybody was in either Barefoot or some crazy just sucks cuz they're so ugly y I'm a big shoe guy I have like a whole collection but I'm just like [ __ ] these things are they're all like plastic and black and just like at least make a nice one you know no one no one has yet there's an open market for that right now how do you prioritize recovery and in your program what is it that you're focusing on for the biggest winners I mean there's a huge Avenue but sleep is probably like the number one thing and in whether brain health aging or just like high performance sleep is like one of the most important aspects anyone can have you lose any bit of sleep than you're used to and your body just suffers more than you can even like understand so I think being super regimens don't sleep and that's why like when I'm in different time zones I'm like I'm not setting an alarm some people believe you should create your Circ rism as fast as possible I'm like no I'm just going to get 8 hours no matter what like I'm tired I'm just going to sleep so I let myself just get at least 8 hours of sleep and I usually aim for nine because I don't sleep through the whole night fully but I think sleep has been absolutely huge and honestly at a point in my career when I was 21 and I started to get a more bit more injuries and just like starting to feel like adrenal fatigue almost I was like I was training like six seven days a week for like 3 hours I was like I feel like I need to tone this back a bit and then I started training 5 days a week for 3 hours and then I realized I had a little bit more progress press and then a year later I was like that was catching up to me so I'm like okay what if I train like 3 days on one day off but I'm only in the gym for like an hour and a half or Max 2 hours including warmup and stuff and I just noticed as I was pulling away from that kind of like volume essentially I actually started to progress more and feel better I started to feel like I was like going the reverse way of Aging so allowing myself to have more time to recover actually made me stronger which I don't even even when I say that I try and like pre-emphasized if you're 19 years old don't listen to me just [ __ ] rub the wall enjoy this time right now go deadlift [ __ ] max out every day and just like seep in these moments cuz they will be gone yes but read your body when you start to feel a little tired make sure you're taking time off and then obviously basic [ __ ] like protein intake is obviously huge timing of it I really don't think matters I think you get at least four four meals in a day so you're spreading it out but whatever you get in it's fine ice bath sauna has helped me a lot I do believe that stretching active recovery like doing cardio and stretching immediately after so you're a little bit warm and then I do a lot of soft tissue work so when I'm in prep I do probably a week or two and that's something where you got to make sure you find someone who actually understands the body who's good at it and it's not me not that you have to go to someone who's going to make it miserable like you're crying the whole time but they have to at least like have know what they're doing and it should hurt a little bit it's not they shouldn't just be trying to hurt you but you need to find someone good cuz I've been through like 10 in my career and I finally just found one now shout it to Dr Marlin my boy down here in Florida he's a chiropractor who does massage for me and he's he's just so smart he just crushed it and it's helped me a lot one of my friends was pushed so hard during a workout that he ended up getting a uh like a blood blister below his eye from the pain from like holding it in and trying not to scream so yeah you come there wait from a massage session oh wow he like and yeah see that's when you're like I feel like the that's like the ego of the massage therapist just trying to hurt you I think it was his ego as well that he was like you're not going to make me make any noise if you hold it in it's like trying to trying squeeze out a really big poo um have I seen you in a altitude chamber no not I've done cryo maybe if you've seen something but I haven't I've that's the next step though Hyperbaric is what I'm like I need one of those in my house I think slept in one of those when I told you about those stem cells in Columbia have you been in one before at all no so the weird thing is let's say that you want to do an hour session it takes you about 15 or 20 minutes to go down right cuz they've got to pump the pressure in and like we're up to 4 PSI 15 16 17 and you're watching this number go up so it's like being in a rapidly climbing airplane do you pop in there every 5 seconds so you're permanently yawning for like maybe I shouldn't over and over and over and over again and then if you want to get out it's like that's another 15 or 20 minutes because they got to bring you back down cuz if they just opened it I don't know what would you'd probably just get like Ripple Li from lay on I don't know I don't want to think about what would happen um is I don't know I can't really work out what I did two sessions of it for an hour I feel you got to do it like a lot yeah yeah I have a lot uh Bill Perkins one of my friends from uh Austin was talking about how he'd read this finished study and if people went and did three accumulated three hours of altitude chamber stuff per week that this thing happened to their telia length and it reduced aging and all this stuff but he realized that the closest facility that he could find was like 3 and a half hours away so he was wasting four and a half hours of his life three times a week to try and save a little bit of time he like I'm going to die sooner from all of the time that I've was precisely precisely so it's such a a false economy when it comes to that what about uh bad habits so we've spoken about all of the things that you try and get done yeah what are the things that you think hold you back or if you were able to get rid of them uh your quality of life would improve or you would be a better athlete or a better person um I mean this year of the ability to say no something that with a lot of opportunity coming my way just I said yes to way too many things and I traveled like every week for like almost four months I think and I was barely home and I didn't even understand like how much it was impacting me until I get in the end and I was just like on edge stressed out like didn't feel good felt like I behind on my training where I should be it would just like Snappy and just didn't feel good and I was just like I felt like I had to do these things like I'm a business owner now rather than just like sponsored by someone so like I feel like required to go to these events I had already pre-planned these like other seminars I've done done or meet greets in Europe or like different countries and meeting manufacturers in India and like all over the place and last year I was always like no travel I got to focus and this year I was just like saying yes to everything CU I felt like I had to and I was like no you do not [ __ ] have to do that [ __ ] like them never doing that again so one thing is definitely just speak like being able to speak up more for myself and be like no I'm not doing that no matter how much I get pushed to do it because I just a lot of the time you're being pushed by yourself right often yeah exactly you know it's like there's some external person saying Chris you need to go and do the whatever thing it's your own drive your own desire to go do more stuff like we were talking about like the the chasing of more and more success but you're sacrificing your current life to have more success but even though you're less happy with the way you're actually living your life like what's actually the point of that like this is the most amazing time of my life and I'm just trying to like run through it and be busy all the time and not sit down and enjoy it or do I want to step back and maybe have less potential business success but 98% of it still but also be more enjoying of this time of my youth and in the middle of like my golden years it's such an important story have you heard about the the par of the Mexican fisherman have you heard this no uh so it's it's a really cool story about someone see if I can find it about somebody who is I can indeed parable of the Mexican fisherman an American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican Village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked inside the small boat were several large yellow fin chuna the American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them the Mexican replied only a little while the American then asked why he didn't stay out longer and catch more fish the Mexican said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs the American then asked but what do you do with the rest of your time the Mexican fisherman said I sleep late fish a little play with my children take cestas with my wife Maria and stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my Amigos I have a full and busy life the Americans scoffed I have an MBA from Harvard and can help you he said you should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds buy a bigger boat with the proceeds from the bigger boat you could buy several boats and eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats instead of selling your catch to a middleman you could sell directly to the processor eventually opening up your own caner you could control the product processing and distribution he said of course you would need to leave the small coastal fishing Village and move to Mexico City then Los Angeles and eventually to New York where you would run your expanding Enterprise the Mexican fisherman asked but how long will all of this take take to which the American replied oh 15 to 20 years or so but then what asked the Mexican the American laughed and said well that's the best part when the time was right you would announce an IPO sell your company stock to the public and become very rich you would make millions millions then what the American said then you could retire move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late fish a little play with your kids take cestas with your wife and stroll to the village in the evening where you could sip wine and play guitar with your Amigos life is often simpler than we make it yeah so good so good yeah it's so accurate definitely something I've been that's exactly what I felt this year putting more on my plate like and I'm in that like prime time right now especially as like a part influencer business owner competitor all this stuff going on I'm like this is the time to stack it all on Top This is my time to do all this but this is also like the most exciting time of my life to enjoy where I'm actually at to like like to be the strongest I am in the gym which is something I [ __ ] love to do so why would I take away from that and just like create more stress some pressure on myself when I can just be here just to have more in the future which I already have enough that I need so that's a great story for sure I know that you're quite healthc conscious about bodybuilding yeah but obviously it's a very rough spot physically psychologically hormonally do you have any concerns about longevity you know you've done an awful lot of like extreme things to your body over the last decade how worried are you about that longer term I mean I think if you're a bodybuilder you don't worry about that you're either stupid or l to be completely honest so it's something I definitely obviously with my own health conditions from the past on the Forefront of my brain but I just manage it as best as I can you know there's blood work you can get done consistently to keep your markers Z there's a lot of tests you know Diagnostics now are absolutely insane and if you want to stay healthy long term it's getting something if something's going on with you catching it early so I do a lot of Diagnostics and blood work and make sure I'm getting healthy and ever since I was sick in 2018 my blood Works kind of continuously improved so I know there's no like negative impact I'm putting on myself like I've reduced a lot of the stress and negative things I put in my body and increased more my health like the type of food I given me it's not just calories it's actually the the the quality of the food and the type of food and everything that I need that like I really focus on rather than just straight macros never been a macro guy and I'm even less now because I actually care about my health and all these aspects like everything I know I need with my body comes from a lot of the Diagnostics I've done and vitamins and all this stuff and I just know that I've made an agreement with myself that when these things start to falter and they start to go down no matter where I'm at my career if I'm peaked if I'm not peaked if I'm about to be better I just need to call it I I I know that it's not worth it to me you know that there's a life after bodybuilding for sure who I am is not a bodybuilder there's more to me than that I'll be happy without it and there's no point in like as beautiful as this moment in my life is it's already been a great time but if I'm going to sacrifice my future life hopefully with a family and my children of my own I'm going to be sick or unable to enjoy it with them that's the biggest thing I would regret so I just I'm staying on top of knowing where I'm at and if it goes down I'm just going to have to call it quits yeah I've heard you say that in the past there was compounds and things that you would have taken that now you're like this is too it's too dangerous what are the things that for you are like off the table with regards to this is too much this is too risky for me the biggest one is like Trend yeah the good old Trend that like there's guys who literally like base their social media off that now it's just like a meme of the internet of the gym culture and and I don't even think people realize the impact that these jokes and memes have on like people coming up who just see you constantly joking and talking saying you need more of it to like be better and feel stronger and all this [ __ ] but that's probably the most toxic thing you can put in your body and I've done it in the past but I don't anymore I just haven't touched it in like 5 years why just the toxicity it causes in your body like that it just comes in it harms your kidneys your liver just everything that takes your body to process it and go through it it's just not natural it's not meant to be in your body and it makes you strong it's [ __ ] and people say they feel like they're on top of the world when they take it but to me that's not really worth the health risk anymore and another reason why I love classic physique is because I hadit a weight cap and I was close to my weight cap like three years ago not at it but I could have taken more [ __ ] and really tapped out and been at the point where I couldn't put on any more weight or I could actually take less [ __ ] and force myself to work harder be more consistent with my diet my training and my recovery and then still get that result but it would just be a little bit more effort you know there's a peak body Peak open bodybuilder with no weight cap probably needs to do everything to be the best but if I can just still put in the discipline and the work and then take out some of the less [ __ ] that tired on my body then I'm on the same point that I would be it's just a little bit more effort it says it all that you as somebody who is competing at the highest standard of bodybuilding on the planet is still finding compounds where you're like that's off the table yeah that's too much for sure you can always find things to take out and things to add in and ways to get better things that are like necessary and just kind of fine-tuning and you know like a lot of I mean a lot of any type of success is getting the most out of the least and what other effort the amount of work you put in in a day the amount of [ __ ] you put in your body the amount of training even you do it's just get being as efficient as possible that you're putting in you're getting maximum result from minimum effort essentially yeah we've spoken before and I think that it's a a smart uh approach that you have of not talking about the things that you use and and dosages because it's just going to result in people doing if I take X then equals Chris bump look likeis exactly um but I I think that you've mentioned before people would be very surprised at how low those numbers are I think most people in the sport can look at me and be like okay he hasn't made much changes in six years like and he they see me training and they see how consistent I am so they would understand but I think a lot of maybe aspiring kids who like who just want to like maybe look like me or look like a pro bodybuilder they'd be like no I got to take this but he's lying like I got I need more like to be like that why don't I look like that and they don't see a my amazing genetics shout out to my parents for that and then B the 10 years of work I put in that has been consistent you know what is the ratio of attention that you get from guys versus girls oh like 9010 in favor of men of course literally and I think my Instagram statistics are like 91% men yeah anyone who thinks that this life is going to get you girls you get more medic what does it say that like the king of the Aesthetics bro era is just swimming in men like there's just men everywhere and all of these guys that think I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to if I get buffed then I'm going to get loads of attention from girls it's like which also there's there's a line of respect in that because let's say you start doing something for the attention of women and then in the end you don't get it but you realize how much you love it so you see keep doing it and your Bros are like that's dope and like you're not doing it so your Bros love you but you're doing it because you actually love to do it rather than just getting a girl you know so there's like a little bit more meaning in doing it for yourself and just cuz you love training come for the girls stay for the gains exactly yeah yeah yeah but it's dude it's just so funny like every person that I've spoken to that's in that's got a big platform that is built around their physique it's like it's a lot of men every time a lot of men out there that like are you getting requests for sock sent please send me your used socks please send me I used to but I don't I don't read my DMs anymore okay I don't really go through a lot no guy I I'm I'm the only one logged into my stuff he sends me the stuff I post it but I just don't even dive into it there's too much [ __ ] in there there going to be it's aess pull down there Chris I there's all these like groups now and it's just like memes and tags and like there's not even like anyone actually saying any what do you mean like people will start a group with like all their boys and then like lifting club and it will be you and your friends from high school and then they'll just throw Chris bumps sitting there cuz it's funny maybe he'll see it one day and I have like hundreds of those and that's all I really and they're not even messaging me they're messing each other and I'm just in the chat so I like I've like every couple months I'll like go and I'm like bored waiting someone I like look and I'm like nope I just blow it there's just nothing in there yeah [ __ ] yeah what um talking about social media and the social media game something that you guys like pay attention to uh to continue to build how have you dealt with the increasing amount of notoriety and and pressure and eyes on you and stuff as somebody that's pretty heavily introverted and wants their privacy you've had to make public relationship with Misses business you know the most stressful times of your sporting career and stuff as well yeah how does that feel like how have you struggled with that and how's it helped you to grow I think honestly unlike most in that position it's impacted me less than a lot of other [ __ ] in my life has impacted me I think I was just raised purely for like valuing people who know who you are and who they like who you are as a man and how you like act in this world rather than what you accomplish and what you own and all these things and all these people don't know who I am so even from a young age I literally remember thinking like all these compliments I'm getting these people don't even know who I am these people don't even like they can say whatever they want about me but it's just this idea of me they're talking about not actually me so the compliments while I'm grateful for it and the support and it means a lot to me they don't know who I am it doesn't make me Better or Worse whatever they say so when negativity comes in and people say anything bad it's it's they're both one in the same they're just both just kind of like out there and it doesn't really mean anything you know if like my mom came up to me and like you're being a really [ __ ] shitty person I'd be like what the [ __ ] like I would like I my heart would thinkink you know I would Chang my whole life but like if someone on the street comes up and be like you're this that i' be like you don't even know me yeah like what but how do you you know the your mind is naturally going to gravitate toward these meanor comments we have this negativity bias that we see yeah how have you trained yourself do you do you not look is there a strategy behind this for how you try and avoid the that seeping in I imagine if you're 3 weeks out from prep with everything in the toilet and you feel like crap and you've got 1500 calories to look forward to today half of which is from broccoli like the last thing that you want to see is someone saying something mean on the inter for sure so where do you go to deal with that um I mean it's been there's a lot of things and it's been a transition but now at this point when I'm in prep I mute everything all notifications are off I don't look at my comments I don't really look at anything and I would just rather that not seep into me on a baseline I can always bring myself back to like what I said understanding these people don't know me but I'm obviously still affected by certain things that hit me but again if something affects me it's because of something I have unhealed inside of myself it comes back to like where I'm where I'm still hurting not so much what other people are what they're thinking of me so like an example of something that hit me a few years ago but it was it wasn't online it was someone in person and they were just [ __ ] around with me we're bantering we guys were like you know we give each other's [ __ ] and he said something like oh wow when you were a kid like girls must have been like here's this good-looking tall jacked handsome guy come up to them and then you open your mouth and they hear you your voice and that list and they're like what the [ __ ] and they're immediately they're like this [ __ ] this guy and they leave you alone and I remember like feeling like a kid again just getting this washed over embarrassment and just like feeling like [ __ ] like 12 years 15 years old again and I was like wow like I'm like I used to be teased a little bit for my lisp and I'm like that's still kind of in there a little bit but that's not because this guy's an [ __ ] that's because when I was a kid someone made me feel like [ __ ] about it and I never really like gave that kid like the love and permission myself being that kid the love and permission to like be okay with that and understanding that doesn't represent himself so I think just taking those moments and using them as an opportunity to go inside yourself and kind of like a give your like young yourself a little bit of love and compassion who like didn't get it maybe when he was younger cuz he felt like alone being able to go back and try and heal those periods of your life rather than being angry at the other person because I mean that's really all that is to it because if you're giv the power to the person then you're just focusing on them and you're going to continuously live in that pain doesn't help you and they don't give a [ __ ] they're just throwing [ __ ] at you they don't care what they want you to react it's hard to not have a chip on your shoulder because of that though right like how have you managed to get rid of that wanting to prove these people wrong and you know you've seen the ways that people who were mistreated or or felt lonely uh when they were younger that can become malignant right as they grow up have you is there something does it does a chip appear on your shoulder every so often that you want to kind of I was I was never I like there's two people who get affected by it in different ways and I was never the one who got angry and like the chip on my shoulder I kind of like like felt shitty about myself I like I felt embarrassed and like yeah you're right I am [ __ ] stupid I do sound stupid when talk like I should just shut up and sit over here in the quiet like I was more like and it never led to aggression in me or like a chip on my shoulder it was more of a like you're right you are kind of worthless just go stand over there so that was more of like that's why when I say what I needed to work on was more empathy and compassion for myself and just like accepting my Humanity my imperfection rather than like I mean it's all the same thing but mine was more focused on like not shaming myself rather than like bringing down a level of aggression and anger tell you what I absolutely love about that is you saying I was made to feel shitty lonely sort of worthless at some point throughout childhood and your answer to it isn't to lean into aggression and to push back against it but to find empathy yeah but to find empathy that you turn inward yeah I think that's like just so Noble so I've told this story before but I was doing a a big podcast last year and um my strategy typically when I'm doing the big episodes is that I'll stay fasted end up being quicker mentally and I didn't realize how long this episode was going to go on for yeah partway through I went hypo so I'm sat there and my mind goes completely blank like just [ __ ] nothing I'm like what's going on I'm sat opposite just hearing something happen like and I'm thinking to myself why don't you have anything to say like what's just it was like it would literally like someone shook the exra sketch inside of my brain I like [ __ ] there's nothing there's nothing left like I I there's nothing for me to to say and then immediately this voice came up that said you're not supposed to be here you were never supposed to be here everyone's laughing at you everyone thinks that you're stupid you knew that this was a fluke uh everybody isn't interested in what you've got to say this is your chance and you're blowing it you're an idiot d d da and I was like whoa where the [ __ ] has that voice come from yeah and I realized it was a voice that I remember from my childhood but it was one that I thought I'd know i' deprogrammed or whatever but after in in times of really serious stress I think Old Wounds and old habits and old traumas like reappear and that was really really high pressure anyway I ended up having some coffee and this caffeine just ripped me out of it and everything was fine the funniest thing was that if you actually listen back to the episode you can't even tell there's just an autopilot voice that's moving while internally and no one would know nobody in the entire world you still were able to respond and you don't even had a perfectly cogent conversation well yeah you do anything long enough and I guess you become competent at it but yeah my entire mind was saying you're a piece of [ __ ] you're worthless everyone's laughing at you you're stupid you know you know that this was a fluke you're not supposed to be here you're never supposed to be here meanwhile I'm having a conversation what the [ __ ] I could to said anything um but yeah the issue with that is it's not like the whole point is like when you felt that it isn't like if then that's becomes another problem so you're beating yourself up and then it's a problem that beating yourself up it's just like a continuous loop of like this like battle you're having yourself but if you don't even think that you forgetting and beating yourself up is a problem it's just part of like what happens in The Human Experience then there's nothing to fix and it slowly just like shifts back to normal yeah I think feeling Shame about the things that you feel yeah is really really really destructive and I know that I I felt this for a long time that I should be more disciplined I should be more competent I should be more diligent I every single mistake that I make I Stumble over this par I'm supposed to not hit snooze on the morning and I and I hit snooze or I I check my phone really quickly before I go for a walk on the morning and that means that I'm fundamentally a piece of [ __ ] or this means I'm there's like there's a an awareness there's like a alert radar and I'm permanently looking for reasons to justifi that I might be a piece of [ __ ] yeah I'm just constantly seeking like a threat detector but it's not it's a [ __ ] detector and I'm looking Reas to justify to myself and that was for a long time and this is you know I'm such a massive of personal development and of personal growth and of people improving themselves but as soon as you posit an ideal you then begin to compare yourself to that ideal and that creates a pain between where you are and where you want to be yeah and you know I'm all for trying to maximize your agency make as much of the time that you have on this planet as you can and balancing that desire to be better with acceptance love empathy for yourself and the ability to just be grateful and present in the moment I think fundamentally for a lot of driven people that is that's the battle I think those are the two things that they're fighting with that tension and it's it's I mean it's work it's like constant work and like I still have things that come up with me that are like similar to that like even in this conversation honestly when you ask me about my morning routine I'm like [ __ ] Mr you don't even have a morning routine like what the [ __ ] you should be more structured in the morning and I like what the [ __ ] like you you are Mr Olympia and you don't have a a morning routine period I don't need to [ __ ] shame myself after that I'm Mr Olympian I don't have a morning period And I can just leave it at that and I H just recently discovered this like battle in myself which I kind of mentioned of this expectation that was on me which like I kind of labeled as seum some people call me seum they don't know who I am and then there's Christopher yes there's like that 12-year-old Christopher who's just like you know he's emotional he's anxious he's stressed out but he's quiet and he's he's just who he is and then seum is [ __ ] confident calm cool collected can step on stage grab a mic give a motivational speech Crush Olympia squat 600 lounds you know he's like the dream and then that person doesn't exist but when people continuously call me seom treat me like that look up to me like that that's what builds this like disconnection in myself and I need to continuously discover who Chris is who Christopher is go back who who he was who he is now and like all these aspects of myself that are just me and let that continuously shine through I think as like you adapted when you were young I've adapted when young we create this thing that fits better into society rather than just being ourselves because we want to fit in we want to succeed we want to be the ideal that we hear and there was this I think it's bne brown she talks about it she's a vulnerability specialist I'm sure you know who she is she said this thing where is if you show up in a crowd and your goal is to fit in then you're putting yourself worth on the line but if you show up and your goal is just to be yourself then you can't fail and your self worth is at the end of the day is if you just act like yourself everybody can do that and then you leave feeling good about yourself because you have control over that but if you're showing up and you're just doing and being anything just to be fit into the crowd and you don't fit in and you're not even being yourself then who the [ __ ] are you you know you're worthless so it's a lot easier to just show up and make the goal to be seen rather than to be accepted because that's who you are and it's in your control there's a problem as well that I found especially in my 20s I I was just sort of big name on campus club promoter for 15 years right I R massive events company meet millions of people I'm the guy that's really well known I'm on the front door of nightclubs etc etc etc and I never felt love for the achievements that I had during that and I think a big part was because I was playing a Persona and I came to believe this is an or Marcus thing I know you're a fan of his as well um he says the Persona is incapable of receiving love it can only receive praise the reason is that if you're not genuinely existentially connected through from your heart to the things that you're doing any praise that you get isn't going to actually impact you emotionally because you're not emotionally connected you're cognitively connected that ego over here can get the praise but not really sebum congratulations sebum you did really well Christopher meanwhile is still a worthless piece of [ __ ] from 12 Years little boy I locked in the closet just back there watching seum precisely correct and you know it goes back to the parable of the Fishman thing or like what are you optimizing for with regards to success do you want to make it to the end of your life with all of the public accolades that anybody could want feeling completely unfulfilled internally and alone and alone yeah lost or do you want to dial back what you do in the real world so that it actually matches up with who you are and move both of those people forward and you know it's that's why I think that you're a really great Champion for the introvert ConEd and quiet you know in a world of of guys that get rich off Egos and and and being loud and sort of out there you know Andrew Tate like [ __ ] fantastic speaker Great Communicator um but a very different sort of person to you for sure yeah and yet both role models for men MH both people that are very highly followed online both people who you know embody masculinity in incredibly different ways but yeah I think it's very important that we have a a counterbalance for the sort of introverted quiet kids it's hard because like you said social media is like targeted towards the extroverted loud controversial the people who are like Andrew Tate who are just going out there like captures people's attention people like me like I always joke about it I'm always like when I'm done I'm going to move to the mountains no cell phone service no one's going to have my address you'll never find me you know people like me want to go hide you know people like Andrew are like where's the spotlight I got [ __ ] to say you know and it's it's hard to balance that and I I've also learned that I'm actually less introverted than I even thought I was I was just more like afraid to show myself essentially so it was easier just to kind of hide in the background when I start to feel comfortable and be myself and I like out there I'm like I actually kind of enjoy this more than I realize as long with I'm showing myself truly and I'm not feeling like I need to put on this facade that's the Persona thing again right exactly if you start to play that I actually think that it even though publicly you may be uh more competent because you have created this uh Mirage out in front of the person who's lost and alone and and insecure it actually makes going out and doing it more and more difficult and this is how you see you know guys like aichi the DJ as a good example somebody who publicly was having to do something that privately he didn't feel uh alignment with and they end up in really bad situations yeah given obviously you are a role model for men mentioned Andrew Tate there also another role model for how much do you interact how much do you think about sort of the state of modern masculinity at the moment and the challenges that young men are facing I've recently started to think about it a lot more I think it's been surfacing more and it's it's it's a weird like balance because people like Andrew tat saying like we need more masculinity we need more aggression we need like X Y and Z and I think there's that agree with that on one level for like a little bit there's also a section of men who just feel alone like myself who felt like they have to hold things in that they shouldn't share their emotions that they don't lean on people and that they should just carry stuff in and they need to be X Y and Z to be like good enough so there's this like balance of that and you almost need to learn to again like I mentioned like that the masculine and The Feminine being able to integrate that I feel like a real man is confident and comfortable enough to embrace the feminine energy he has in him if he's emotional let it out but also have that masculine side of it be like I'm going to be emotional right now but I'm still going to go and [ __ ] [ __ ] up right now you know I'm still going to take charge of what I want with my life I'm going to work [ __ ] hard and be disciplined but I'm going to accept that sometime I'm going to break down and it's going to be I'm not saying that women break down but there's more emotion over there and allow to feel it and to ask for help and to lean on people and being able to balance those two and that like yin and yang I think I think that's what's missing personally and I do like on one level I do feel a sense of responsibility because the fitness is a big world of men who are I think usually get into Fitness on some level maybe feeling lost and they can feel a little bit safe and I heard a lot of people I can go in the gym and just forget about everything I'm like that's great the gym is an amazing tool for that but you still need to go back and feel that [ __ ] eventually cuz it's not going away a good workout doesn't make the stress at home better now it's still just buried under that [ __ ] dopamine rushan sick pump you got in your chest you know it's still there so I think just learning to navigate and balance that is super important and that's where I'm like okay I'm someone right now where people look up to on one level there's a responsibility for me let's take my 12-year-old self who felt like like he had to hold it all together he couldn't lean on anyone he couldn't ask for help and I just remember this time I was in the hospital a few years ago and I didn't tell my parents I didn't want to tell them CU I didn't want them to be stressed and anxious and they found out and I was like it's okay like don't come I'm totally fine like they they were at of town or we live in different cities and like don't even bother coming I'll be out of here in no time it's okay and I thought about that and I broke down crying again I was like why didn't I ask for help I felt so scared and alone and just to have my mom sitting beside me I'm a man I'm 20 years old at the time it would have felt better but why am I so scared to ask for help you know like why do you think you are scared to ask for help part of my childhood of just feeling like a I saw my dad who didn't really need help my mom was busy they were both super busy with work and they gave me everything that they could but they came from families who didn't know how to show them kind of love and support and they came from so there's all these generations of this pain who don't know how to express themselves and then I think honestly my parents jumped about 10 Generations worth of progress of who they are and how they showed me love and vulnerability as much as they could but there's still stuff missing and now I would like to jump a few Generations as well and hopefully help my kids but there's always a gap of with a kid where we're going to miss something and I think a lot of that does come from my childhood and so when I get in situations like that and I was afraid to ask for help and now I look back and I'm just like if I had just started crying and been like I need you mom like I would have felt so much better but I had to be like no I'm okay don't even come I'm good I'm going sit in this hospital by myself and stare at the wall and just try not to think about it dying you know like that's [ __ ] insane I don't know why I did that what would you say okay so you know there's a lot of guys listening who say that that resonates with me I feel like I I struggle to open up like I find it hard to embrace the fears and the insecurities and stuff that I have what have you found as a good first step or as the first steps that's good for those guys to take to move forward it's it's definitely tough and it's depending on the situation in your life and this is kind of where I was getting at is like hopefully myself if I think of who I would have wanted to be the role model to that 12-year-old boy that's who I should be in this world to anyone who is looking up to me now so I hope that some people like me who Express this stuff can at least give permission for people to start that Journey so if I have that if I have that impact on anyone and I've had people come up to me and like at Q&A and [ __ ] like I wanted to ask you this but like I'm [ __ ] going like tell me some crazy story where I'm about to cry listening to them and they're coming to share with me and I'm like [ __ ] man like that's that's deep you need some like you need people to lean on and they're like I don't know what to do so my advice for those people would be to understand that hopefully you have someone in your life who loves you and if they love you they want to help you they might not know how to ask you because they weren't given that help so sometimes you have to put yourself out there and be like and just open yourself up to them and allow them to see deep inside you cuz not everyone can read your mind and like dive deep into your school just because of you're like you have a different look on your face if you have people you lean into them and if you really don't feel with anyone in your life that's scary and I'm like I feel horrible for anyone who feels that alone but find a therapist or something I initially I did have people I could lean on and loved in my life but I went to a therapist before even them and back in 2020 when I told you that thing I don't really want I can't talk about that was really hard on me I bared all that and I went to a therapist and started talking to them and I thought I'd never be able to open up to someone some stranger I don't know first session [ __ ] crying on this couch and I was like holy [ __ ] there's a lot of stuff inside me right now and so much of my journey for the last 5 years I've been understanding how much stuff I've suppressed and didn't know it was there and allow it to come up and the amount of like how light my heart feels and how light my body feels when I kind of get some of that out it just helped me so much you can tell you can really tell that you feel more sort of aligned with it just like yeah I just feel good with myself overall and I know like I said earlier got emotional just thinking about like the people I've had in my life and now was Courtney the amount our relationship ship has built over this span of time of me being able to bring myself out more and share with her we're like we were engaged and now I'm like I don't [ __ ] even know what a ring is but I'm going to [ __ ] die with this girl by my side because nothing's going to tear us apart I just we've built that connection through that trust remembering what you said about um don't necessarily expect people to be able to pick up on the fact that your face looks a bit different today yeah she had to ask you four times yeah in the bathroom yeah and I lucky as hell that she's such a empath type of and she's super emotional and she was able to see me but if not who knows if I would have shared that with her yeah I either uh empath or um unrelenting perhaps going to keep on asking and keep on asking keep keep on poking yeah I I I really do think that this this tension we talked about this of tension between a desire for success and a a feeling of being enough um between wanting to be strong and competent and also being able to integrate the emotions that you have it is all so individual and the point is that trying to take any philosophy any one Philosophy from someone and saying I am going to take the Andrew Tate or I'm going to take the Chris Bumstead or I'm going to take the Chris Williamson approach to this sort of a thing fundamentally doesn't work because the drivers that you have are completely different yeah and I think that the only thing which really does scale is okay try and find out what's true in you try and find out how you actually feel about these things I have a friend who's staying in Austin at the moment guy called George and when anybody asks him about his childhood and everyone's supposed to have got like [ __ ] from their childhood he has nothing he has absolutely nothing like is my childhood was fantastic did you ever get bullied no I had loads of good friends and I have no baggage I have no trauma I have no nothing so for him the solution is completely different yeah solution is completely different to the one that it is for maybe me or you and yeah I think and there's still a potential that he's looking back with rosecolor glasses and that he just kind of pushed a few small things aside and now some stuff might make him feel triggered or insecure or embarrassed and he just like oh it's normal just kind of push it over and move on but he doesn't even see it I'm not saying that's true might be but it's possible if if he breaks down crying this weekend the just go home and poke him be like are you good are you good are you good five times say five times I do you think though breaking that stigma that like both can coexist in a alpha male too for men you know like you can be this [ __ ] killer who cries you know like you can and I mean I'm not a deep religious person but you look at someone like Jesus Christ the night before he got crucified the Bible says he was weeping you know he was scared when he was carrying the cross he was stumbling he was falling he had to have people help him like this is the epitome of the archetypal like human you know and he struggled he he cried he was scared and he was sacrificed for everyone like that's a story that oldest time that was equally showing that but you don't think Jesus was a [ __ ] badass [ __ ] like I think he probably was you know so I think there's a a there's an ability to intertwine that and sometimes people come out of the Woodworks like Andrew Tate who are just so far one way like this is being a man and then there's people who are too far the other way who like you need to be sensitive and cry and who cares about winning and all this [ __ ] it's like no like I want to be the best version of myself and that's my biggest goal but underneath that I want to [ __ ] win I want to [ __ ] embarrass everybody on stage but when I don't I'm not any less of a man I'm still just as like I still value myself I'm just as worthy of a human being that's just I still want to [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] up over there you know so being able to intertwine that and just believe that they can coexist I think is something just super important to set off on that Journey you are the first thing I asked you was about pressure as a privilege and you mentioned that it was like just a thing that you came up with and then you almost retrofitted the the idea around it the same thing goes for a champion mentality you like come up with a thing I have a friend Mary and she says uh meme first uh meme first explain later and I think that it's really really important that you have um Concepts that can be quite easily summarized parable of the Mexican fisherman right everybody knows what that is everyone knows that story they know what the takeaways are one of the problems that you have with a meme first explain later philosophy is that you optimize for ideas that are very simple and like unidimensional so holding two opposing thoughts in your mind at the same time is like the most difficult thing that you can do in 2023 yeah I want to be strong and powerful but open and vulnerable okay like no these these two thing you have to be just one or the other that's the only way that it works so I do think that like the limited bandwidth that the internet has and some of the um ways that people are rewarded for Content online causes them to simplify down theories and and philosophies to the point where you lose the nuance and the Nuance is really what's important and it actually causes cultural memes to propagate that are nowhere near as sophisticated as they should be like if any one concept can be explained in a single sentence it's probably not sufficiently complex you know for sure yeah like espe I think the biggest tool that they come or that that those like Parables or quotes or whatever have come with me was just like giving me a reason to self-reflect so when I hear like a quote or like a story or something I've said in the past that really like I'm like [ __ ] that kind of like hits me I'll like write it down and I'll continuously go back and kind of rethink what it means to me you know and I think we all need to learn how to really think for ourselves so when you listen to someone like we keep going back to Andrew Tate because you brought him up when he goes on this I listen to part of his huge podcast and there's all this [ __ ] I'm like [ __ ] like this dude's smart I'm fired up like this this all makes sense and he said something and I'm like I don't agree with that like I don't for myself that's if it works for him okay but like I don't so I don't have to agree with everything he's saying but I have to be smart enough to be able to think for myself to take pieces of both sides and understand as much as politics want us to lean right or left that like it's somewhere in the middle at the end of the day and you have to like you said you have to find your own way some level you have it's constant reflection of finding who you are and finding out where you fit and all this and how it integrates into you not just because person X does it like this but because you do it the best way you do it and you have to learn through mistakes and through practice and reflection and life and Triumph and pairing and all the [ __ ] you know well when you have someone that gets a platform any platform they are usually a specialist in one particular area or the're par one good at one particular thing the problem is that they then because social media is ubiquitous and 24/7 they then asked their opinion on other things like I will quite happily take your advice on a good pushpull leg split but to be frank I don't care what you think about the Ukraine conflict you know what I mean I'm not going to get in politics yes but but there are a lot of people who we've got the the opportunity to have this platform so what do you think about the covid Wuhan lab leak hypothesis and what do you think about the situation that we've got going on with Russia and blah blah blah like I think staying in your lane in that regard is is a a good idea and even that you know coming from someone that does have a platform even that's tempting o right maybe I could become the what if I was the Ukraine guy yeah as well I I have a friend Douglas Murray and he said um somebody asked him why he hadn't commented very much on the covid situation it's like back end of 2021 start 2022 we've been through this twoe insane thing and he writes four or five columns a week and it's big big deal he barely comments on it yeah and he said I'm going to do something which is very rare in the modern world which is to not say anything about something which I know nothing about imagine that [ __ ] brilliant yeah so one of the things that we've spoken about today common theme has been a an investigation into your own mind right introspective retrospective doing that ruminative work have you ever had any interest in psychedelics yes have you taken any I haven't I'm so tempted though yeah I'm like constantly like I want to go to PR do iasa like I want the journey hit me with it I just I mean I'm there's there's still a part of me that's like a little bit afraid you know you hear all the like this I do believe what people say when like one of the comment fears is like you're not going to want anything that's currently in your life and then the the contrary to that is like well it's cuz those things weren't meant to be in your life and I do believe that but I also love my life right now and I don't really think I need that much of a change and I'm slowly mentally growing and like becoming more true to myself and happy and I don't really want to [ __ ] with that but the shroom side of things I'm sure I'll dabble eventually I just haven't gotten there yet yeah yeah yeah and I know uh so mushrooms yeah but nothing I haven't tried LSD I haven't tried iasa I mean Austin which is the psych capital of America and um yeah a lot of people go down to suara I think it's called a lot of the guys fly down there I want to say that that's maybe in Peru um it sounds fantastic I mean actually the process doesn't sound that nice up until the point in which you're in it but yeah there's definitely fear I think uh and apprehension around okay what's this going to bring up yeah you know especially if you've done some work and you realize that there's depths to trauma yeah and you think W [ __ ] there is some some stuff that came up that one time when I was on a podcast and you go okay what if I think I've relieved all of the pressure that was tamping down that and it's not [ __ ] I haven't even touched it the iceberg yeah it's scary I mean and that's part of the I mean the fear of even self-reflection it's a baby version of just like uncovering what's inside you that you've been suppressing forever like what's deep inside Chris yeah either either Chris you know soend it can all pour out and you have no idea what you're going to do I saw you post about the difference between seeing a dream as a fantasy and seeing it as an objective that you guys have been playing around with words and definitions and how important they were yeah what is that difference what's the difference between seeing a dream as a fantasy and a dream as an objective I was kind of just reflecting on I I think a lot about language too and I try and correct the way I say things and like people call me out for it now on my YouTube and it helps me a lot and I just think the there's a lot of power in words it reflects a lot but it's not so much the word but it's each individual's perception of that word and it was just more of a thought because we made this I said this thing like dream with intent and it was just like what is a dream even like anyone could ask you a question and you're like well what's your definition of this word and that question and it could be completely different so if I say dream somebody could be like well I'm fantasizing about this but in their mind they're like someone Works 9 and5 and they're fantasizing of their dream job that're they know they're never going to do because it's just a dream and then there's the type of person who hears dream and it's like well it's same it's Sy synonymous with Goal it's just an objective I'm going to get it's just my Topline objective and I think even just like starting something and be like this is my dream if that means that to you great but maybe you should switch that word to this is my goal this is my objective this is what I'm chasing after so you're actually committing a plan of action to yourself rather than just some like fantasy that you have in your sleep one of the best things I heard about this was a lot of people are worried about giving up what they have now for what is going to happen in future especially it comes to do with work right that you have a job which is okay it's not great but it's not that bad and you end up realizing are you succeeding at a job that you hate yes imagine how well you would succeed at a job that you loved yeah and it's crazy it's crazy to think that is I think 85% of Americans say that they are either actively unengaged or not engaged with their work it's only 15% of people that say I am actively engaged with my work yeah so you have 85% of people that are basically ambivalent or like outright negative about the thing that they spend 40 hours a week doing yeah and not everybody can just up sticks and decide to Pivot and go and do different stuff but that's the point that everybody faces that same level of difficulty and that when it becomes tough or you're uncertain or whatever everybody else faces that as well yeah so it's almost like when you're deep in a diet and your body is pushing you to try and eat more food but you're stopping it from eating more food yeah that's not an enjoyable feeling but it is the sign that progress is being made and it's the same thing as when a lot of guys message me and ask about uh I don't necessarily have the support system around me that I wish that I did to be able to do the things that I want to I live in the northwest of England and you you know I love reading philosophy or psychology and learning about human nature but all of my friends are like rugby players and all they want to do is go out and drink every weekend and I'm I used to be like that and maybe now I'm not and I'm starting to feel discontinuity and Discord and friction between me and the life that I used to live and the life that I Live Now and where I want to go um how can I deal with the fact that this is painful for me and the answer is the fact that it is painful is the reason that it's working yeah that if it wasn't you stepping out everybody else that has to try and step out into this new life faces this same thing too every single person does that's why most people don't do it yeah like this is what hard feels like and this is why most people don't win mhm so continuing to push through and almost seeing that level of discomfort as a signal it's like a way marker that's been planted in the ground yes more this way mhm because if it was all just super easy well how are you going to get anything different to what everybody else has got if you do the same thing that everybody else does and one of the best selectors for people not doing a thing is discomfort so the route that has a lot of discomfort down it usually on the other side of that ends up with something which is valuable usually usually if you know where your progress is going correct like to build on that when you were talking about like the progress part a lot of so kills a lot of people like what are you progressing towards people who sit in their jobs and they feel like there's no value it's not contributing to themselves or the world or really it's just there for a paycheck that and it feels like tough like uncomfortable though there just you know you're just miserable with it but at least your friend if he's chasing after something that's like a dream of his or a passion that he's chasing towards and his progress it's uncomfortable at least at the end of that line it's what he wants y you know and that's leads to obvious like a lot of people ask me how do you say so like you mentioned discipline when you're at that point you want to eat and you want a diet like well I love what I do at the Baseline I'm passionate about what I'm doing and I love what the goal will be I love the part of it I love the impact it has on others help people in my life and myself so at the end that's just there's a reason there's a purpose behind it rather than just mindlessly C circling the hamster wheel yeah one of my friends uh Chris Sparks has this idea called there is no growth without goals MH and what he means is that the James Clear Atomic habits idea of you know just focus on daily routines and you don't need to be outcome focused you just need to be iteration focused just do one day do one day do one day yeah but that only works if it is in service of a greater thing yes you are going to not rise to the level of your goals you're going to fall to the level of your systems but your systems need to be moving you in the right direction because if you end up realizing oh I've been doing all of this stuff day after day after day and the destination it's taken me to is something that I wasn't even really that bothered about like this happens all the time people that think all I need to do is continue to grow the business one day after the next I'm going to turn up on time I'm going to work hard I'm going to do the rest of the thing and 20 years they look back and go I didn't want a big business never cared yeah I going do anything with all this money now spent all of this time climbing up a ladder to realize that it's up against the wrong wall yeah so yeah there can be no growth without goals and I think that it's important but also being too outcome focused again holding two conflicting thoughts in your mind at the same time yes it's difficult it's difficult but it's important and even that even in this that we're talking about the fact that it's hard to hold two different thoughts in your mind at one time is the exact that separates you out from the rest of the crowd because that's what most people do most people struggle to do hold those things for sure so if you can do it that's also another selector but yes aaska I would love to see you do it I wonder what sort of size dose they would need to give you bet they're going to have to give you a big boy dose I don't know I feel like I'm I can still be a lightweight yeah everyone a little different when are you going to stop when are you going to be done am I going to stop when are you going to be done it's a million dollar question right now the last few years I've been getting asked out a lot I think I cuz I went through a tough period at one point where I wasn't thriving in bodybuilding and I wasn't enjoying it too much and I think I almost like hinted in my energy that this wasn't like going to be forever and people like he's going to retire so now I get that question all the time but since integrating myself more into this like I was speaking about the seab bumbers Christopher being myself more allowing myself to feel the stress sometimes makes me more excited about the good parts and feel all the joy rather than just numbing stuff out it's actually made it a lot more fun overall I'm a lot more excited every year now and I look forward to it so every year now I'm like excited to keep going to be better and I've always told myself again I tell myself these things if I come to the point where I'm not excited where I'm not like looking forward to like pushing myself and going past those limits again and I'm like oh like [ __ ] like and I have those days but I mean consistent like that's how I truly feel about it then I need to pull up because I don't think without that like love and drive and passion that I'm going to be able to push my body to the limits of where I'm actually capable of being my best self and I don't want to compete to win another title I don't want to look worse than win a title I want to know that I'm progressing and I'm like beating what I looked like last year which how [ __ ] miserable it was to get down to that that body fat and to keep that muscle on me and to train like that and do all that I want to know I can beat that this year that's part of what excites me even more than the trophy does so as soon as I lose that fire I got to tell myself I'm tapping out and I'm ready for the next part of life but I'm truly taking it year by year and it sounds like a bit of a political answer there but I honestly I look to the next year and I'm like if I finish this year and I'm like [ __ ] yeah let's do it again then I'll do it again but if I'm like nope this isn't it for me like overextended period of time I truly my heart I'm done then I'm going to check out but I really I can't predict the future again my health comes into it my health starts to deteriorate then I'll be gone but I've been functioning in a way where I like I know I have a lot set up postc career you know I've never identified myself as a bodybuilder I don't really even like to like dress looking like I'm this [ __ ] Jack bodybuilder a tight white v-neck kind of tiny I'm I'm just like a skinny guy who walks through the street you know small little but like I don't identify myself as such so when I'm done bodybuilding it's not like oh no who am I now this loss of this loss of self no it's just a chapter of My Life the book is closed let's open a new one what's next so just creating a structure right now and a self where there's no fear around leaving it it'll be sad as [ __ ] I will forever miss being the strong the shredded this big the standing on stage the feeling under of their lights hearing my name called but it's there's a time and place for it and I'm enjoying right now and when it's gone it'll just be time for the next thing then fatherhood yes that's that's like my my thing and I still like if I'm lucky enough to have kids it's like I just I put that little that little safety cynicism that on myself because there's always a fear behind that but I just truly think like I'm going to be the best dad ever and my fiance will be the best mom ever and I'm like I'm [ __ ] looking forward to that I'm very excited to have kids and like a I hear a lot of people say that they're scared to bring their kids into this world because the shape of where it's at and how like crazy things are now but I'm like no like that's exciting I'm going to bring a badass kid and he's going to [ __ ] own this [ __ ] because I I'll teach him how to navigate it and I'll give him permission to do all the stuff that I've learned and I'll teach him everything I've learned and I'm really excited to like build that kind of family unit and hopefully pass on some knowledge I've learned over years and what my parents gave me and what I've expanded on that and put that into another human yeah me too I I can't wait to be a dad and the the difference between our parents generation and ours and our generation and the next one I really really hope will be a big inflection point our parents did fantastic they did as well as they could but the difference in the amount of information that's available this self-growth the personal work that you've been able to do that I've been able to do you know you have the opportunity right now if you're listening to this to access the greatest thinkers on the planet 24/7 in real time for free directly into your ears it is such an unbelievable privilege to be able to have that it is [ __ ] insane you cannot like the way that you feel you cannot like the texture of your own mind the way that you experience the world and you have the opportunity to be able to go out and learn the exact thing that you need to be able to improve that go away work on it come back listen to the same person again it's [ __ ] insane it's absolutely ridiculous that we have the opportunity to do this and it is such a huge opportunity I asked David Goggins because he David goggin's father had been mistreated by his grandfather goggin's grandfather and then his father mistreated David uh and I asked David whether he almost saw it as part of his mission to be a like a dam to be a Breakwater a circuit breaker from all of this trauma you know that's getting passed down from generation to generation and I I think that a degree of awareness you know all of the challenges that young men are facing at the moment where they wish that they being able to speak up more integrate the feminine learn to embody the masculine whatever it might be I really really hope and think that in you know 20 years time when the next Generation like the millennial personal development bro generation kids are growing up that they're actually going to be like you know what it was I [ __ ] I learned so much from my dad like I just he downloaded like every Jordan Peterson and Joe Rogan Insight directly into my brain by the age of 10 years old can you imagine that generation yeah I think really exciting but I feel like it would be like a not everyone's taking advantage some people are just scrolling Tik Tok with his use of the internet so it'll be like those people and then no one's down here and it'll be with an audible subscription and people without an audible subscription exactly yeah yeah I I do agree I think it's called assortative mating in um like the The evolutionary psychology literature and uh people that are alike mate and people that are alike mate and that ends up with you know the personal growth people mate with the personal growth people the people that the Tik Tok people make with the Tik Tok people and you do end up you're right you do end up with this almost diverging um quality of insight polarizing growth yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah uh which is not good but on the flip side like what are you going to do like you're reaching 20 million people across all of your socials you know if you can't nudge culture then nobody can for sure so but yeah man I think the opportunity and it really sounds like the work that you've done is almost preparing yourself to become a a good dad in a way I love the idea of most of the battles that you go through in your 20s being the thing that prepares you to be the father that you want to be in your 30s I really think that that's a very Noble way of thinking about and also you know it's not like you didn't get anything out of it either but for sure you also get this beautiful opportunity to pass on more insights to a child that were hard one by you I think really really cool for sure yeah why it's so important in your 20s to throw yourself into the fire to take the risks and if there's going to be a moment in your life or you're like [ __ ] it I'm just going to go for it and if I fail I fail do it in your 20s you know take the risks do the things that are uncomfortable and kind of like navigate yourself through it cuz really putting yourself in those uncomfortable situations like you said that uncomfort equals growth so you kind of got to do it [ __ ] yeah Chris bumpstead ladies and gentlemen Chris let's bring this one home I really appreciate you man thank you for having me why should people go if they want to check out all of the [ __ ] that you're doing at the moment you can just look up Chris bump said you can find it rare Name by name yeah relatively rare name rare Dagwood bump said famous from the old newspapers in the 70s or some [ __ ] okay dude thank you so much for having me I appreciate it thank you yeah know I'm super grateful to be here I've watch your podcast for a while so it's an honor to be sitting in front of you in this intimidating interview as people like the comment