Changing of the Guard, the New Fedora Community Architect | Fedora Podcast 060

Fedora has a job whose entire purpose is the health of the community around the distribution. And this month, a new person has taken over this role. Today, we're going to talk about what the role does and what both the person leaving and the person arriving want to see happen next. >> [music] >> Hey there and welcome to the Fedora podcast. This is episode number 60. Cannot believe we've had 60 episodes of the Fedora podcast. But I am so glad you're joining us. I'm Eric the IT guy Hendricks. I'm your host today. Uh Noah is off dealing with a customer emergency. So he wasn't able to uh to join us today. But I am joined by two people that I've known for darn near a decade. and uh they are amazing folks with a lot of love for uh for Fedora and the open source community. So with that said, we're today we're going to talk about the Fedora community architect position. We're going to talk about what the position does, what uh what we've been doing with that role and what that role might look like moving forward. So without further ado, let me introduce the uh outgoing Fedora community architect first. Justin, welcome to the Fedora podcast, my friend. >> Hey, thanks Eric. It's nice to be back on and uh big kudos on getting the podcast up to 60 episodes. That's a nice achievement for the podcast. >> Yeah, it's it's been a lot of fun and the audience is growing like crazy, too. I think we just passed 14,000 subscribers on YouTube. Uh so, I mean, that's for the Fedora Project channel in general, but the Fedora podcast is one of the uh more frequent contributors to the YouTube channel. So really excited to see the the audience growing and and that uh people really like to hear what's going on around the Fedora community. So I know uh you were on just recently, but for those that might have missed the uh Flock to Fedora episode a few episodes back, why don't you give us your introduction, who you are, what uh what you do, uh what you do or what you did do for Fedora, and uh something you do for fun. >> Yeah. Uh so my name is Justin Wheeler. Uh for a long time I've been in the Fedora community. Uh I began my uh time in Fedora when I was still actually just a little bit before I was a university student uh beginning in 2015, 2014, 2015. And uh you know for a long time I kind of got to get my first experience in open source and working in such a large decentralized community. Uh it was kind of my start in my open source journey and Fedora helped me learn all kinds of different things and took me helped me get to different places in my career. Uh fast forward a little bit uh in 2022 I joined Red Hat uh as the Fedora community architect role which is what we're here to talk about. And that was my first time working at Red Hat in this role. and I had had a you know a good work a um close relationship with the four people who had been in the role before me as well. So I had a deep context and understanding of the role and you know kind of what my own thoughts and vision for it would be when I came in. Uh and so that's been part of my journey for the last few years and where I've spent my time while I've been at Red Hat. Uh but recently in that Fedora magazine article that uh we can put in the show notes uh where we announced the transition with Shawn who you'll hear from in a moment uh who's stepping into the new role or stepping into the role and then my transition into a new role. So I'll be going into this new role that you know I've kind of helped coin as AI alignment community architect which fits into the community architect uh job role that many of us have in the open source and AI program office at Red Hat. Well, that's awesome. And uh something you do for fun. >> Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's something that I love to do is rail travel. Um you know, there's lots of ways to travel and I do travel a lot, but I'm a really big sucker for uh long like learning how to travel by rail and by train in different countries or public transit is just something that I I really enjoy. It's something I enjoy learning and experiencing. >> That's awesome. And if I'm not mistaken, that was different than the the hobby you used in the last episode. So, kudos to you for uh for uh for switching it up intentionally. >> I couldn't even remember what I said before, but I'm glad it was different [laughter] >> for sure. So, we'll hear a little bit more from from Justin here in just a moment. Uh and as he pointed out, always check the show notes for these episodes. We always put links to the hosts, to our guests, but also to useful information, whether that's blog articles or u documentation links or links to our matrix channel. Uh all sorts of ways to get further information around each topic. So, make sure that um that you check the show notes. And while you're pulling those show notes up, please uh go ahead and hit that like button. and it helps the the algorithms of our AI overlords uh know that people are enjoying this contact uh the this content. Sorry, I speak for a living. Uh but also make sure you hit that subscribe button. Let's uh let's keep growing the Fedora channel uh audience as well. Now, without further ado, let's talk to the incoming Fedora community architect, Mr. Shawn Mccants. Sean, welcome to the Fedora podcast, or welcome back to the Fedora podcast, I should say. >> It's great to be back. It's been so long, Eric. I know it's been like a whole episode. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Well, Sean, I'm glad to have you back. But for those that might have missed our conversation about what is CentOS Linux, uh, and or sorry, what is the CentOS community? Let me let me be accurate there. U, why don't you tell us who you are, what you do, uh, what you do for Fedora, which is kind of an ironic question, and then, uh, what's what's something you do for fun? >> Yeah, I feel like part of that is like what this episode is about, right? But, Right. >> Well, I'm I'm Sean. I am the um I'm the incoming Fedor community architect. I'm also the the CentOS community architect which we discussed in that in that previous um episode. Um similar roles for for you know related projects um but taking care of various things around the communities uh for these projects. I've I've been um I've been with Red Hat uh for 11 12 years I'm not sure. um always in the open source program off open sorry I'm sorry it's open source and AI program office now it was the open source program office um it was actually open source and standards when I started but uh I've been fortunate to have a a a role um in this kind of community supporting organization uh within Red Hat for a very good chunk of my career so um this is a a natural path for stuff I've been doing um and I guess we'll get into the specifics of Um, and what I do for fun. Last time, last time I I talked about video games and Zelda specifically, and I uh I think you gave me a hard time about my hobby still involved being in front of a screen. So, um, I would say I Yeah, a little bit. >> Just a little bit. >> I'm going to give a different one then. I love bluegrass. Uh, and I have been attempting to uh be proficient on um either the banjo or the mandolin. If one of them man manages the stick, that would be just great. But um it's tricky. But I do enjoy >> confirm these are these are true facts. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Definitely go check out our previous episode that featured Sean and a panel of uh CentOS community members as we talked about Fedora Linux versus uh CentOS stream and how those those uh different communities uh which are largely one and the same as far as communities go but uh very very different projects with very very different objectives. Uh, so go check out our previous episode, uh, if you want to learn more and and hear Sean talk about video games, uh, which awesome enough, uh, there's there's, as as I recall, a couple of, uh, Zelda announcements since our last episode. So, uh, >> commercial we're running because I can, you know, I can give you the rundown of what happened, but >> we we should see if Nintendo will sponsor the podcast. >> Yeah, that's right. That's right. >> So, Justin, I wanna I want to start with you. Um let tell me a little bit about the photoora community architect. Um tell me a little bit about what your what your responsibilities have been. Um for for the folks that just may not really know what goes on dayto-day in an open source community like Fedora. >> Yeah, it's a great question. So I think to explain what the role does, it involves a little bit of the context of why this role exists and how it's changed. Um so this role started in February 2015 or so. This was something that one of the previous Fedora project leaders, Rob uh Robin Berseron largely advocated for when she was the Fedora project leader. uh and it was trying to create a because at that time it was really just the Fedora project leader as the sole uh lead figure in the project. So creating this role and actually then it was called the community outreach and impact lead which was kind of a mouthful um but that was a way of trying to split out a certain kind of work that helped support and sustain the Fedora community and the way that we run the project and help sustain our infrastructure. Uh so that role I it's you know and as fast forward we'll fast forward a little bit here into the present time where we you know the role is Fedora community architect we move that role name changed in January 2023 uh and that I think was a part of a reflection of the changing landscape of you know what this role has meant or or what roles it's played in the project uh over time and I'd say the largest functions like when you're asked like specifically what is this role responsible for uh I think If and this we we'll make sure to put this in the show notes too, but there is a doc page in the Fedora Council docs for the community architect role. And the current version, I think, is actually the best. I mean, maybe I'm biased, but I think it's one of the best versions that helps explain what those key things are and where the community architect is most effective. Um, so like one of those roles is there is a formal seat in Fedora Council and different parts of governance. Uh so that's you know being a part of the fedora council, helping steward the mind share committee, uh being involved as a uh representative in the code of conduct committee. Um those are all kinds of community governance and uh leadership participation that are part of the role. Uh but there's also things around budget management. I'd say that's probably one of the largest things uh if not flock, which is the other big part. uh but being able to steward the budget and chair the mind share committee and help guide the funding and and support that we are able to provide in community uh channels like the mind share committee for anyone that wants or some some events are different sizes have have different requirements but for known established fedora contributor uh fedora contributors who are ambassadors they can request uh certain amounts of funding and support for an event but we also have processes for people who are doing just small meetups and just want a little bit of support or a few little like to get a shipment of stickers. Uh if you write an event report, you know, that's one way that we can help direct some of that funding to people in the community who want to do things with Fedora in their local area. Um so part of that requires being able to run a budget and do some of that forecasting and planning and also being a liaison back to Red Hat which is the primary uh you know the organization supporting and and providing that budget to the Fedora project. So being able to do some of that negotiation both with the Red Hat side and in the community side is kind of the to me it's part of that fun is the fun part of that role. uh and trying to be an advocate for you know the things that uh are important and valuable for uh the Fedora community. So the other second thing is flock. Uh I think that one is best covered in the previous episode perhaps but that is a major responsibility of the Fedora community architect and there's lots of places that the Fedora community architect is involved with Flock. Uh in the new charter it also brings in some of Shaun's work as well from the CentOS ecosystem. And while that wasn't part uh you know was part of you know Sean's transition from his previous role and mine uh this wasn't something I was focused on before but I think it makes a lot of sense in the in the current role charter and I think it's going to help to the benefit of bringing our communities closer together because we already share so much overlap in our contributor base in the two projects anyways. So, you know, there's been a lot of changes and evolution and, you know, I can't say that, you know, from working with the four folks previous to me, everyone's always taken a different approach to it based on their own uh experience and uh perspective of working in the project. Not everyone's come with an engineering background. Not everyone has come with a designer background. And that's been a really unique part of that role. And I think there's lots of other things like just because it's something that's not written in the charter doesn't mean that there's not, you know, room for the community architect to jump in on something or be involved in other parts of the project. But these are the core parts that I think that are ultimately part of the successful mandate of the role. So to to date, can your your different responsibilities definitely change quite a bit based on the season of the year that you're in, but what's what's kind of a a day in the life, kind of a week in the life look like for you? What's uh what what do you spend a lot of your time focused on? >> Me first or or Sean? >> Let's start with you. >> All right. Well, I think you know a big part of what my week looks like probably depends on what part of the calendar year it's in. Uh if it's in like for example the first half of the year uh that actually ends up being kind of a very full time of events and even flock planning. So in those times you know those are the things that are usually getting more priority and focus or things that I'm working on on a more routine basis. Um so like if we were to pick you know let's say a time in like uh May the month before flock a large part of it would be you know working on some of the last bits of maybe you know im imminent schedule changes people who are uh cancelling or changing their need to have changes to their slot that they're assigned or people who aren't able to travel anymore. uh dealing with, you know, last minute like hotel block issues and talking to hotels and or or venue partners uh for events and being able to kind of negotiate running like owning that event uh kind of work. Uh so like getting ready for that. Then there'll be things like running the Fedora mind share meeting or mind share committee meeting which is the other kind of split of the Fedora governance model. uh the uh one of the main responsibilities of the mind share committee is part of the supporting the community architect with that budget management work and providing community input on requests that come in from the community. Uh, so I think that's probably some of those like just a snapshot of those things and some of those things can end up being really quick and short and sometimes, you know, trying to chase down the right person to get something fixed or addressed and following up to get documentation for something, you know, that can end up taking more time depending on how things go in a day. But the other part is just spending a lot of time in our community channels, the matrix channels, our Fedora discussion um our forums where we have all different kinds of topics for you Fedora users and Fedora contributors uh on you know our our Fedora Forge which is our own self-hosted Forgio instance where we do all of our collaboration on our projects and several other places if I really want to think about it but those are you know our key channels that we do a lot of our work in. So, a lot of my day also, you know, something will come up or get a notification for a repository I'm following or uh there's been a new poll request on a project that I'm working on, you know, I'll be able to, you know, check in on some of those things throughout the day as well. >> Yeah. And for for those that uh that aren't familiar with a lot of Justin's work, I can personally attest to just how easy it is to get a hold of Justin. um he is instrumental in us producing this podcast, bringing in topics and and uh scheduling uh volunteering, shall we say, uh guests to come on and talk about different things, uh as as much as I try to keep my my finger on the pulse of uh of the Fedora project and be bring topics that are timely and applicable, uh Justin always has has had uh the the ear of the community and and really uh really does a lot of hard work in um and and just kind of helping the Fedora podcast keep a good pulse on what what's going on and bring uh bring good information to all of you. So, uh you know, round of applause for you, Justin. I've really appreciated working with you and um I don't know about your replacement, but we'll we'll we'll deal with him in a second. >> [laughter] >> Um, so before we before uh before I I grill Sean about uh his his uh his move over to this role, uh people would like to know Justin, what uh so what are you doing now? You've got a fancy new title. What what's uh what's it look like? >> So, you know, this is something that I actually have some you know, I was hoping to have it ready before the podcast, but uh on my blog, I'll be sharing a little bit more about some of those things and kind of spelling out my road map and things that I'm starting to think about in the role. But you know part of the experience of changing this job title for me was I also got an opportunity to you know kind of write my own job description for this role. And it gave me a lot of opportunity to think about what I feel like are the most impactful things and areas that especially around the you know rising AI use not just in Fedora but even in our wider spaces that we work within. you know, I think we need to have a better uh, you know, engaged contributor body on some of these issues. And so, you know, it gave me a chance to kind of think about what are those things and priorities. And so as I'm getting into this role, part of it is going to be setting out, you know, trying to figure out what a vision or a roadmap or, you know, charter for this might look like because in truth, there's already a lot of people working around doing various things with or you know directly working on AI things uh or doing hardware enablement for you know different packages or different uh driver sets you know there's already people doing a lot of work. So being able to understand what is happening in the project and what are people doing already. I think that's going to be something to you know better understand how do we as a community interface with this very new and controversial technology that you know we haven't you know there's very strong opinions on both sides about using it and I don't think that's something that we can take community you know consent as a guarantee. I think that's something that you have to earn through trust and you know and building different pathways for doing different things that don't compromise each other. Um so I I think there's going to have to be like a lot of figuring it out. But some of the things that I'm looking at in the short term, uh, this one's gotten a lot of attention today, is this this week in Fedora, uh, which is this, uh, weekly report that, uh, another awesome Fedora contributor, Aurelian Bombard, uh, he's developed this, uh, you know, monthly or this tool that will pull from all these different public data sources available in the Fedora contributor space like uh, mailing lists and Fedora discussion posts uh, and Fedora meetings and a few other places and for the most part it's been like you know I think there's definitely as always there's not always 100% accuracy but for a lot of people it's been the best way to actually get exposure to some of these conversations that are happening and letting people drill down deeper and finding the information that they really want to follow because I've always said it for a long time Fedora is a huge place and it's impossible for any one person to know where everything is um so all that to say this project has started you a big conversation recently around uh uh adding adding a a bot that's ingesting chat room messages from a public a public but you know not indexable perhaps like not going to show up in a search engine matrix chat room and it started a lot of discussion because for some people they were you know excited and found that useful and for other groups they were you know caught off guard that they didn't get a chance to give consent for that for using that having their chat app messages go to the bot and even though Aurelian always reviews the report every week before it gets published so he's always going through it and as much as a human editor could you know mi make a mistake or or miss something you know he's uh tries to catch some of the obvious things that are there but uh there's a process also for you know raising feedback and uh making it clear where you can report errors we actually talked about that a little bit earlier in a meeting today and I think there's some ideas to make that a little bit more clear for people who are visiting the site. But all of this to say, um, this is one kind of I'll I'll give the most time to this one because it's kind of a short-term one and ties in I'm actually you might even be able to link to the freckle recording uh from the meeting today once that gets published. Um, it goes into a lot more detail about that as a as a discussion topic. We also have things like there's an agent skills library that the AI and AI and ML SIG is working on uh hoping to build some better contributor documentation and uh kind of engagement plan for that repo and that project uh and also uh spending some time with the documentation with the AI and AI and ML ML SIG in Fedora too. Uh because there's a lot of different documentation out there in Fedora around AI. I want to try to make it easier for people to find the key and updated and correct information. There's more, but those are kind of the short-term things that I'm looking at in areas that, you know, kind of help put together a picture of what is Fedora doing around AI and what would a, you know, what are the things that we we can and should do as a community and where are things that we need to be more careful and have more conversations. >> That's awesome. and you've got years of Fedora community architect experience that you can now take with you to this new role and and sort of try and help tame the uh wild west if you will of uh of open source AI. I I I cannot see a downside to this. I mean for me like I knew going into it was going to be not an easy thing because you know not everyone you know the verdict's not in on AI and a lot of people have a lot of doubts and uncertainties about it but you know in my experience in the community architect role and in my own personal life there's been things that I found very useful from this technology and I see the call to open to me that's the exciting part of all of this is that you know I think we have to you know engage in the space so that we can drive for more open ecosystems and open stacks that actually allow us to have greater autonomy over the things that we choose to run and use. I don't think that's the state of the universe at all right now and it probably won't be for a while, but I think that's the universe that we want to play towards and is kind of the interesting one about how do we figure that out as a community. >> That's awesome. So, I I want to ask you one last question before I kind of switch gears and and talk to Sean a little bit. Uh Sean, thank you for kind of hanging with us as we uh we kind of talk about Justin's journey here, but uh um you kind of touched on this a little bit in the blog, but what what are some things you want to leave for Sean? what uh what advice what uh what words of wisdom can you share with Sean as uh as he's well I mean this is this has been a couple of months in the making but you know just for our uh audio and video listeners what uh what what are some things you want to leave for Sean to pick up? I mean, I think one of the most practical things about all of this is that uh like Sean and I were already working together in the same team at Red Hat and even though we are changing roles, we still work together and you know, talk to each other pretty on a regular basis. Um, so I'd say at one part, you know, I'm not very far and so we can work through anything that else that comes up because we've had so much time to talk about it and really try to think about what is the best way to do this for the community. Like that was part of the process, not just me rewriting, you know, or writing um a job description for my role, but also Sean, you know, getting to rethink, you know, what is this role going to look like and where are the areas that, you know, are going to make the most sense to be success like? Where can success happen with this role and in the community? Um, so I think, you know, there's any key advice, I think it's just, you know, uh, keep working on your time zone math because that's the hard that's the hardest part. [laughter] You're not wrong. >> Yeah, never mind. Never mind that some people don't even have time zone changes and uh some people do them at different times. Anyways, yeah, it's one of the fun parts. You never know. Uh stay flexible, you know. You never know what time everyone is working on or what clock people are working on. >> That 30 minute time zone offset in India kind of breaks my brain actually. [laughter] Google. >> Awesome. Well, thank you Justin. Uh, so Sean, any anybody that knows Shawn and I or have seen the two of us interact in person know that we ri each other often. Uh, but there's usually that usually is followed by about a 30-minute conversation about Marvel or comics or or any number of things. So, if you hear me giving Sean a hard time, it's it's because he's he's a good buddy of mine and I would be doing him a disservice if I if I didn't give him uh give him a hard time for just anything really. [laughter] But John, tell me uh people can go back and listen to the episode about CentOS, but I I kind of want to focus in on what what is kind of been your role as a CentOS community architect. What what's kind of a day in the life? Um kind of talk to us about this position from from the CentOS perspective. >> Sure. I mean, I think it's similar um to a lot of what Justin discussed. uh there are there are mirrors of of some of the the the responsibilities and the organizational structures. Um so you know we have CentOS connect is our uh our main contributor event. It's our it's our flock. Um I say our like it's all ours at this point but it's the CentOS contributor event right. Um and uh so like putting that on um being an active part of the CentOS uh promos which I guess is probably the closest analog of the uh of the mind share committee in Fedora although the uh mindshare is um I think a it's higher in the organizational structure like it has a actual real defined leadership role. It actually gets a representative on council. So like within Fedora mind share is a I don't want to say a bigger deal but it's it's organizationally um higher on a hierarchy I guess um but still the promos within within CentOS manages um event presence and social media um all the various basically non-est technical aspects of like let's promote the project. So, um, if we had a CentOS podcast, it would be under the the promo SIG. So, but we don't have Eric running that for us. [laughter] >> So, funny you mentioned that because you I think you and I in 2021 were actually in talks about starting a CentOS. Uh, >> but you know what? I actually I actually did uh do like I think one episode I called it connections and I interviewed Justin uh on the floor at Red Hat Summit. Yeah, maybe 2021. Yeah. So, um, >> that that must have been when we talked about it because we we talked about it, but you're like, "Yeah, I'm going to try it out and I'll definitely tap you for for any advice and that kind of thing." I was like, "Okay, I'll I'll just go and volunteer to help with the Fedora podcast." And longtime listeners listeners know that I volunteered to help co-host or be a guest on on the podcast every now and then. And within about three or four days, Matthew Miller had basically told me, "Hey, the podcast is yours. Do with it what you will." Wait a minute here. >> Yeah. So, I dipped my toes and it turns out it's a lot of like work to keep a podcast running. So, um >> don't don't I know it. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> So, anyway, so there's that. And then I don't know what uh there's there's budget management. There's a lot of that. Um and uh there's there's actually a lot of interfacing. There might be more of this in the Centras project. I think interfacing with um internally with with engineering and the business units to to make sure that um the things that we're doing are it's not that Red Hat calls all of the shots within CentOS, but they you know Red Hat has certain interests. Uh CentOS stream is of course completely Red Hat controlled, but the the SIG content is not. So um just making sure that everybody's happy. So I think some of these communications internally within Red Hat um with engineering and business leaders are um are maybe something that in the Fedora side that maybe the FPL might have some of those communications but we don't have a there's no CPL right so those are things that maybe fall on the the CentOS community architect that are are unique >> and and if you're if you're new to some of the acronyms FPL is Fedora project lead by the way um and then uh Sean mentioned a CPL which would be the CentOS project lead which uh is it's interesting. It doesn't really exist. >> Yeah. Like there's a CentOS stream team lead that's an internal position at at Red Hat but it's not it's not what the FPL is. So yeah. [snorts] So what uh what do you hope to what what experiences and processes do you hope to bring from your your CCA CentOS community architect position uh to to this one? >> Um well all of them. I mean I think I'm a um I'm an experienced uh I I know how to put events on. Um I'm I'm good at budgets. Um I've been treasurer of um I've lost count. I think five or six organizations at this point. Um I was treasure of the the Gnome Foundation for many many years actually. So um so I've done a lot of that type of work. Um and logistics and stuff. I think there's a lot of um Fedora is such a broad project. Uh, so I I I know how to handle the logistics of doing things, but I think there's a almost a daunting amount of like wrapping my head around the the breadth of the project and what everybody's doing and and you know, as you mentioned earlier, how how how uh how Justin like has his finger on the pulse of the project. Um, so you know, getting all of that I think is is a I don't want to say a challenge that it can't be done, but like it's it's it's certainly a a something to rise to. That's awesome. So, one of the things that I've heard you both kind of mention is sort of the duplication of of responsibilities. Um, since since you're retaining your role as the CentOS community architect, uh, and kind of picking up the the Fedora responsibilities, uh, how is this going to help streamline the process for both communities? >> Sure. Um, there's a lot of behind the-scenes work that, um, doesn't need to be done differently. Uh actually over this year um uh already before this role transition Justin and I uh were doing uh shared budget management. So we have we have project codes. So like Fedora has a project code in for internal bookkeeping stuff. We have one for CentOS. Fedora has two because it has an internal one and one that's external and like the mind share committee is supposed to uh vote on things like uh travel sponsorships which they do. Uh, and so this this year actually Justin and I did our kind of our internal budget management um with a shared spreadsheet, you know, so like we there's there's still an external process to to these budgets, right? We're not merging them. Um, but internally it's like we we can just kind of do one thing and not uh duplicate efforts. Um there's just a lot of uh some of our um like social media. You want there to be separate social media accounts. There should be Fedora social media accounts and sent to us social media accounts, but there are management platforms we can use where um you know we can easily just post to whichever accounts we need to. Um and in particular the I I think the event management aspect. Um, so Flock of course we'll we'll want to have Flock again next year. Uh, CentOS connect uh we will have next year San Centtos connect will be January 28th and 29th. Let me make sure I said that correctly. January and 28th and 29th of 2027. Uh, in Brussels it is the two days before FASD which is the 30th and the 31st. So um the the website will be updated as soon as the contract clears the procurement team which is just stuff we have to do you know but it's it's already it's in flight it's it will happen um but some of the stuff around like the the uh putting on an event like this um you know leaning on events team and some of the teams that we build up around doing program committee work um you If we can share more of that load, I think a lot of it gets easy uh easier. Um on the Centtoest side, like Amy Marish has been super helpful and putting on CentOS connect. Um and on the you know, Fedora side like Epha Maloney is is freaking amazing. So like I don't know, can I get both of them on both events? That would be really cool. I don't want to volunteer them for anything, but um certainly like sharing sharing the workload on on some of that stuff. I think could help everything run more smoothly. >> First off, that was very, very clever how you snuck in the dates for CentOS Connect. Uh, which I mean, here we are in September already, so I was like, man, that seems like so far away. But no, no, it's not. So, well, well done sneaking in the CentOS connect dates. That that was nice. I'll we'll put a link to uh to the uh connect page in the show notes as well. That way, as soon as it's updated, uh you can check out all the details for that. But second of all, um I've been to a number of number of events open source and Linux related. Uh and anytime I see Fedora, there's usually CentOS as well and and vice versa. In fact, it was kind of funny at uh uh at scale earlier in the year. Um you all just combine booths to make this one extra large booth on the end cap of an aisle. And so when you just look down the aisle, all you see is is just Red Hat theme stuff. There's Fedora and CentOS. So it it I I think that's a beautiful visual of what we're doing here. The projects are staying separate there. There's there's no merger of projects. There's no changing of intended audience, technical or otherwise. Both projects serve very very specific roles to very very specific parts of the industry. So none of that is changing. All that's changing is you're redoing the piping uh inside the walls to to the casual viewer, to the Fedora desktop user, uh to the CentOS stream server administrator, nothing really is going to change, but what we're doing is just freeing up so much more time and energy in the back end. Planning an event is planning an event, whether it's in Brussels or the United States. Obviously, there's there's a little bit of difference, but it's still just event planning. um managing the platform underneath social media. There's so many open- source projects that help you schedule and publish social media to multiple platforms. Um and you you don't have to you don't have to have different tools to accomplish the same job. So all you're doing is just cleaning up the piping. Instead of running parallel pipes, just run one. It's I I think it'll really really help make promotion and administration of both these projects a lot easier. I hope so. [laughter] >> Otherwise, it's a lot of work. >> So, Sean, what what are you've officially been in the role for about two months now. What What are your what are your current priorities? >> Flock actually is a is a big one, believe it or not. Like, it feels like um >> So true. >> Yeah, for real. And you know, we're we're like three months out from CentOS Connect and and probably, you know, nine months out from Flock. And yet Flock is uh um I think actually the bigger lift. There's there's just more moving parts with it. Um so getting um getting a location, a venue, um a date uh nailed down very soon uh is is a is a big priority. And then I think some of the stuff with flock becomes, you know, not so urgent once you get that piece in place. But um >> uh so that's a big one. >> And then besides flock, um uh which I'm I'm fairly comfortable with, like I've been involved with flock organizing, so I'm not coming in completely cold on that. Um uh a lot of it is is still just kind of figuring out the processes uh around different teams and making sure that I'm um you know respecting all the right boundaries and and uh u like I worked on a Fedora magazine article recently and like just knowing the Fedora magazine process for submission and and uh so learning all those those learning the ropes basically. of how things are done in different um different aspects of the community. >> Yeah. And it's it's interesting when you talk about events the size of of Flock or Scale or Connect. Uh I I would conservatively think that events take about 13 months to plan. By the time that you're ready to launch one event, you're already having to plan that same event for the very next year. um from nailing down dates to venues to to locations, you know, it's it's so much work. >> I see Justin kind of nodding his head here. [laughter] >> And one of the things that that like makes CentOS connect easier uh is that we just always colllocate with Fazdom. And so that takes that question, you know, off the table. We know we're the two days before Fazdom. We've got a venue we like. So, um, yeah, it can definitely putting on an event is can take a a longer time than people realize. So, and it's a it's a team lift always. >> Yeah. And the community feedback part is also, I think, one of the unique parts of all of it with Flock. >> Hey, you mentioned scale, Eric. Um, we we did last year. Uh, I don't know if Did you come in on the the the the hatch event that we did? >> No, I didn't uh I didn't actually know what was going on until I got there and had already made plans for for how my my trip was going to go. I was so upset that I missed it. [laughter] >> We need to better publicize then. We we would like to do something like that again. Uh yeah, thanks [laughter] >> for for our audio listeners. Justin just pointed at Sean and like that that's that's on you and and maybe a little bit on me being the one of the Fedora podcast hosts. Maybe we should promote that kind of thing a little bit better. >> Yeah, [laughter] we did a half day uh Fedora Hatch event um and it was kind of aimed at like um to some extent users but largely at like can can we um is this a place where we could pick up new contributors and here are some ways that you could contribute to the Fedora project. And so it was like there was a packaging workshop, but there was also um you know Justin did a thing on on the uh the the docs team and the docs initiative and getting involved with that. So um I we would we would really like to do that again. I don't have that um firmly in place, but um scale the scale is a wonderful event. We always enjoy going and doing stuff. >> Oh gosh, it's this this year was my first time at scale and it was fantastic. Good. Well, I hope you come back and I hope we're able to pull something off again. >> That that is the plan. Um I'm hoping to continue to go to some of these events. [clears throat] Speaking of uh Justin and Sean, I I will put this question out to both of you. Uh obviously we have CentOS Connect coming not just barely a quarter away. I cannot believe 2026 is already threequarters of the way done. Uh but are there other events where Fedora and or CentOS are going to be present? I'm gonna um yeah, I'll point out in uh just a couple of weeks here is DevConf US. That's in two weeks on the September 24th and 25th. That's in Boston. Uh we will have a a shared booth there. Um I think last time you asked me about upcoming for events, I forgot to say Texas Linuxfest and then Amy got mad at me. So, uh [laughter] Texas Um, she's a good friend. It's all in good. [laughter] Um, Texas Linux Fest is in uh November. I don't >> first weekend in November if I remember correctly. In fact, I'm I'm trying to uh trying to work out logistics to go down there. I've got a talk that's been selected and I know Fedora and sent to us will both be there. So, >> yeah, we will. And I I yeah, I hope to see you there. So, um, yeah, those, so DevConf and Texas Linuxfest, uh, we will be at scale in some capacity or another. I'm just I don't have the logistics nailed down on a on a Hatch event yet, but at the very least there will be a booth. Like, we're always there. Um, have I missed anything? >> Uh, DevC and, uh, Texas Linux Fest were the two that I was thinking of. Uh, what about uh, what is it? All Things Open. >> Oh, yeah. We do. I'm I'm not personally attending. Um uh I like All Things Open, but I I can't attend everything. Uh [laughter] yes, we I I believe we intend to have a uh the all things open booths for uh for community projects for like the the not paid company things are, um they're basically they're like cocktail tables in like a community booth space. Um, that means the table is smaller and there's less room for a lot of branding and we probably can't put up two banners and whatever. So, it'll probably just look like a Fedora booth. Um, but we'll we'll throw a couple sent to us stickers on the table. Um, but we Yeah, we are approved for that. So, we will have some presence there atto. >> That's a nice event for people in the Raleigh area. >> Yeah. And uh in Red Hat's backyard. So, that makes it uh that makes it really easy for a bunch of folks to to attend. Um I don't think I'm going to be able to make that one this year, but uh um but definitely a good event. I've heard nothing but good things from across the industry for for uh atto. >> They make the best t-shirts of any event I've been to. [laughter] >> That's true. Yeah, >> that's important. I've I've worked for companies that don't have a good swag game. So, uh um you know, that's that's important. coming away with all the right t-shirts. Actually, this uh this Podman shirt came from an event. So, um but yeah, that's that's important. Um so, as we kind of wrap up this episode, Justin, I I wanted to open the floor back up to you. Thanks for for sticking around as as we kind of chatted with Sean, but uh any any closing thoughts? Anything uh as as we kind of close this chapter with Justin Wheeler being the Fedora community architect? Anything you want to impart to the audience? Uh, I guess maybe the first thing is just be patient with me. [laughter] Uh, but uh, no, but you know, I I think in in a lot of sense, I think Sean is set up to be really awesome in this role. Like one of the things that maybe wasn't come out if it wasn't clear, uh, you know, he also has a really awesome background and experience with doing things like accounting and event organization and all the stuff that you really have to be on top of as the Fedora community architect. And I think the role and you know all of the things that he's responsible for are in great hands. And I think you know I'll hopefully try to be you know I'm hoping as I get into figuring out you know what that vision and view of the future for AI is in Fedora. Uh I'm really just excited to work with people to try to figure that out and to you know also for me you know to work on active listening as a skill. uh and trying to figure out what are the ways that we you know not just use and you know interface with this technology but also how do we influence it in the ways that align with our values and beliefs you know around our four foundations and Fedora or you know our commitments to free software and open source. So, uh, you know, I think just, you know, there's going to be a lot of exploration, but I'm hopeful that people will be willing to help be a part of figuring that out together, and that's what's going to help us get to something that we're all actually, you know, at least willing to be have some sense of achievement and influence in the space. >> That's awesome. Sean, how about you and closing thoughts? >> I have to top that. Um, >> good luck. [laughter] >> [snorts] >> Look, I look forward uh I I look forward to the the new challenges and the the new opportunities in the role. Um you know, I I think I I bring some experience, but maybe I bring some entrenched thoughts that I might have to rethink on on how certain things get done. Um this is, as I said, like all of this is a is a team lift and we've we've been moving kind of internally. um in into a model where it's it's it's not just a single person is responsible for everything like we have a team of people. Uh and so while my name might be attached to um you know a specific public facing role, it's like I still uh you know I can still ping Justin anytime I want. Uh and I' and I've got other people internally as well. So, um I look forward to to I don't know all the opportunities and and to just continuing to work with um the the people that I have within Red Hat that are amazing and also the entire like really amazing Fedora community is full of just really I think wonderful people and that's why we're all here. >> Yeah, I I would agree with that. Um, but you realize this this change in role means you have to deal with me more often, right? [laughter] >> Oh, I quit then. Bye. >> Justin has dealt with so many requests from me and like, hey, can we do this? And what about this for the podcast? And have have you thought about this? And so, uh, now now that you've kind of settled in, th those requests will start. So, um, my apologies in advance, but sorry, not sorry. >> I think it's great. And I think the [laughter] the people have noticed the um how how much the podcast has has taken off uh and how much of an impact it's made. So >> Justin, you you came off mute there. What you wanted to wanted to chime in? >> I was say, you know, it's it's really a great way to showcase the different voices of the project. But I was going to say if you need me to give him some more suggestions to keep him off, you Sean, just let me know. I'll keep him busy. >> No, no kid, no joke. I mean, I I applauded Justin earlier, but this this this bears this this the story bears telling. Uh I I told him uh earlier in the summer that we were a little light on topics and and I could use some inspiration. And uh so I I' I'd even gone out to my not insignificant LinkedIn community or uh to my to my LinkedIn page and posted, hey, you know, I'm I'm hosting this Fedora podcast uh Fedora Project podcast thing and if you if you're involved in the community, I would love to connect with you. Let's talk. Let's get a an episode scheduled. Justin jumped in and I think tagged somewhere close to 20 people with about 15 topics that are sitting in the backlog. Um, no joke, like at least 20 people and 15 topics. So, that said, by the way, over the last few weeks, uh, little little bit of show uh show uh clean up here. Um, little little inside baseball. So, if if uh if you're interested in the Fedora podcast more than just listening, definitely uh definitely kind of uh lean lean in close to your to your speaker right now. Uh by the way, I have moved a lot of our episode guides, our our episode topic backlog into Forjo uh or FORJO, however we're saying it. Uh go to forge.forapro.org/mpodcast. You can see who we've got uh tagged uh to to be on an episode. I I try and keep that as updated as possible. You can see backlogs of of these episodes. I'm moving a lot of that into uh into the the podcast repository. That way we can track that information. Um I'd like to start putting in processes and that kind of thing into the wiki. Uh but you know, life has been kind of lifey lately. So, um haven't had a lot of time to focus on that. But that is the goal and the plan. And the reason why I say that is one of the things that I want to do and and Justin called this out earlier was this weekend Fedora is an amazing source for information on what's going on. Um in fact it is something that this particular podcast host is using to help kind of tailor topics and ideas. Um so if someone out there is interested in helping out the Fedora podcast, I have a specific ask. Um, if if you want to help out the podcast, but you don't want to be on mic, you don't want to be on camera, that's not your that's not your thing. Uh, I totally get it. Uh, this was not always what I thought I was going to do with my career. But the Fedora podcast still needs you because what I could really use is someone to kind of come in and help me with the administrative side of the podcast. If someone could come in and engage with the people on our list, engage with Noah and myself, and help schedule episodes, I would really, really appreciate the help. uh my schedule right now as a single father and as someone whose career is a little bit in flux. I would really appreciate the help someone to come in and um and just kind of lend a hand. And Sean, I just had a brilliant idea for something that you and I could tag team is as you hear of specific needs within the Fedora community. Mention those to me and I will we'll we'll do this kind of uh in our in our episode wrap-up. I would love to mention, hey, this this team, this SIG is specifically looking for some someone to do this thing. So, our not insignificant audience, uh, you know, it's it's so much easier for someone to jump in and help if there's a specific ask instead of, hey, open source needs you, instead having a specific ask for a specific project or for specific team. I think that's something that we could help uh help the community out with from this particular podcast. So, uh, I just submitted the first one. Uh, I could really use a a producer type person. You wouldn't have to be on air. You'd be in the background. So, if that sounds like you, uh, definitely reach out to me on Matrix. Speaking of, you can join the Fedora Project uh, podcast matrix room there. There is a link in the uh, show notes and as well check out a few episodes ago, Noah and I actually talked about how to get involved with Fedora uh, in general. So, we talked about Matrix, we talked about FOJO, we talked about just some of the different communities within the Fedora uh community. So, definitely check that episode out as well. So, I know this episode is coming out just a little bit late this week, but life has been hectic. So, uh we do still have plans to talk to Scott McCarti and team about Project Hummingbird. I'm excited about that episode coming up here in a few weeks. Uh we'll we should have Noah back in the next episode. Uh, and I know that we have like 15 uh topics uh or series of topics even in the backlog that I hope to get on the show real soon. Uh, so definitely you want to hit that subscribe button and tell a friend because the Fedora podcast is is growing and uh we're we're trying to make it even better every single episode. So with that said, uh on behalf of my guests, Sean McCants, the the now Fedora and CentOS community architect, and Justin Wheeler, our outgoing Fedora community architect, now the AI alignment community architect. Uh I've been your host, Eric, the IT guy, Hendricks, and I really appreciate you all tuning in, and we'll see you again in just a couple of weeks. Thanks y'all. >> Thanks, Eric. Thanks, Eric, for all your work. >> Happy to do it.