CBE System Puts Learners in a Position to Thrive in Shift of Dynamic Environment.

All right, good morning. Welcome back. Thank you for staying with us. You're still watching hashtag in the morning. My good name is Brian Sanka. You can find us as well on our socials at Y24 channel. Now, in this last conversation of this segment, we're delving into matters education. As we currently speak, our education structure is on a major shift from previously the old form of 844 system to the currency competency best education. However, there's still some major challenges in between that are being addressed on a on a rollout basis for mascotation and etc with the promise of turning out learners who are competent and who can effectively maybe earn from their talent and also take up the employment sector. But also the question is what exactly is the future of education in our country? And to help me unpack this conversation is Godfrey Obibo. He's the general manager at McKin Schools. Great to have you. Good morning. >> Good morning. Good morning. >> Let's get to know you a little bit. What is your profile and how did you find yourself at Mckini School? >> Um well I I started my career a little over 28 years ago. Uh I I was in sales. Uh then I got into financial services sector. >> Yeah. >> Uh where I worked for different institutions. Uh I worked for a bank. I worked for one of the the big um insurance companies in Kenya. >> Yeah. >> Uh and then I moved to renewable energy uh across Africa, Subsahara Africa. >> Right. >> Uh and then you know most recently I I moved into an energy efficiency company. >> Mh. >> Uh overseeing the the portfolio in Kenya. >> Yeah. Um then you know now I'm at uh I'm at McKini schools. >> Yeah. So combining different sectors and finally you landed yourself in education. >> Uh the education sector right now has a very massive beaming conversation about some of the major transitions and I've highlighted from 844 to CBE. maybe what is catching your attention uh your attention even as you operate at McKini school and also maybe from a learner's perspective what really strikes you a lot in terms of the way education was previously conducted 5 years ago and now in the current world of technology the major shifts and transition >> yeah well you know uh as you've rightly said the world is changing and uh you know we have moved away from an analog world into a digital the world and uh with that requires a certain specific set of skills for someone to be able to thrive. Um I think that one of the things that for example the government of Kenya is doing and doing really well is to try and move with the times to try and prepare the learner who is going to be future proof uh a learner who's going to be able to thrive in a world that has lots of uh shifting dynamics. >> Yeah. All right. At McKini School, uh there's there's an interesting update, but I'll get to it later. Uh because you guys are all about now the competency best curriculum that's actually changing classroom experience for child for children. When you look at how young learners are trying to juggle between this major shift from the previous 844 to the current uh CBE, what are the inbetweens that are making it maybe easier or maybe what needs to be adjusted or what needs a facelift in terms of making learning more accessible so to say. Uh I I think the the way education has been set up right now is uh a step in the right direction and a breath of fresh air. Quite frankly, um we are putting in place uh a curriculum through CBE that's going to enable u children to grow up into people who can think, who can ask the right sort of questions etc. Mhm. >> Uh but we are also aware as a private player in this sector that uh the government cannot carry that burden alone and that's where now private players like McKini come into into the the picture. Yes. Uh we have cured um a a curriculum and uh an academic experience for learners >> that is accessible >> uh but that also augments on what has been provided by the government through things like AI tools and uh you know upskilling our teachers on the regular so that they remain um really really uh current with you know the different practices is that are being used the world over. >> Right? >> So, so with us, you find yourself in a place where you get the best of both worlds. Uh if you bring your child to come and study the CBE curriculum, they get the best of both worlds. You know, what is being dispensed by the government, but at the same time, they also have access to some of the tools that we use as McKini. >> Yeah. And McKini has both you mentioned both uh international and even local curriculum. How are you striking to operate with the the inetweens of you know trying to have our own very own education system that works for us but then incorporating global students too as well. What are we getting wrong or right in between? >> I don't think there's anything gotten wrong or right. I think it's a it's a function of choice. >> Um different parents have different uh requirements uh and different visions for their children. as an institution we provide both and we do both really well. >> So at the end of the day you know the the parent has to make a decision based on the different pathways available per curriculum to enable their children get the best of what uh they would want their children to to access. >> Yeah. If you are to paint for us a panoramic picture of how an international curriculum set up for a learner looks like compared to our own uh Kenyan education system, what are the contrasts? >> Actually, the interesting thing is that there really isn't u much of a difference. Mhm. >> Um the international curriculum Cambridge really offers different pathways for uh learners and like I said you know international standards globally recognized and and that makes it a lot more easier for children to be able to access different uh universities without having to convert etc. uh it also enables these students to move from one country to another and you know just plug in without again having to to convert. So what we've found over and over is that a lot of parents who >> come from the diaspora or who you know move around a lot they expose their children to that curriculum because then their children are going to have that international outlook when they travel from one country and go and relocate elsewhere. It becomes a lot more easier for their children to plug in to a different school. same curriculum, different school. >> But we also have homegrown uh parents who also want >> who are aspirational and they want their children to access uh that uh international curriculum so that you know when they go to universities the world over it becomes easy for them to you know to just plug into the system. And Gy, let me ask you, is there a classroom difference between a student in an international curriculum class setup and one who is doing the Kenyan setup in terms of maybe what they be taught uh lessons if it's mathematics other arithmetics etc. Are there striking differences and also in terms of even the teachers u I'd be stunned if the same same teacher teaching an international class is also teaching. Yeah, >> there are differences for sure. There are differences. What are they? >> The for example, if you look at something like uh mathematics, >> uh you find that there's a lot more um there's it's it's a there's a lot more rigor and uh you know the the complexity of the topics that are covered >> are a lot more in-depth in some of the international curriculum. We do not mix our teachers. >> Uh so our Cambridge teachers are separate from CBE. Kenyan teachers still. >> Yes. All our teachers are Kenyan. All. Okay. >> No exception. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> What would you say makes you to achieve that in terms of having these two curriculums in place at McKini School? Would you say it's infrastructure facility because also even when the CBE came onto you know the block there's a need for reskilling upskilling and even skilling. Yeah. So what would you say at McKiniscope that has enabled you guys to thrive with both curriculums? I think what has given us an age is the fact that we are part of Advitech. Uh Advitech is you know the the biggest u private educator in Africa and um having Advitech having been in this business for decades you know really understand education. So what we do for example with CB and and also you know Cambridge is we augment the experience. uh so we you know there's a baseline that's provided by the government of Kenya and also you know uh Cambridge uh body but we augment on that using some of the tools that we have and the experience that uh advite brings to to the table >> right >> we do upskill our teachers on the regular we have uh professional development uh training uh courses and we also have uh we have platforms that are used by teachers to upskill themselves And you know it is a requirement that our teachers are regularly upskilled and that is how we are able to stay ahead of the curve. >> Yeah. Are you guys hiring as well teachers from TSC TSC teacher service commission? >> Yes we do. As a matter of fact we are placing a lot of emphasis on that TSC certification. Yeah. >> Uh so >> because again we really want the best of the best. uh and you know as a corporate citizen of Kenya it's important that we adhere to what uh the ministry of education has laid out as you know uh the the requirements for a teacher >> right >> to be able to teach in an institution >> absolutely uh would you say at McKennis school maybe your infrastructure is a little bit um far ahead in terms of you guys enabling even reskilling upskilling etc because uh when you look at the conversation currently right now is matter capitation literally all sectors of education are crying out loud. Maybe there's delays here and there but like I said it's being rolled out on they say on an episodial kind of or a serious basis. Yeah. So in terms of infrastructure maybe at McKini school just for credits what do you boast of here? We uh we are in the business of people, >> right? >> We in the business >> is a business actually. >> Yes. Uh we in the business of people uh our learners are our customers. >> Uh and our >> That's a good one. Our learners are our customers. >> Yeah. And our teachers are the basically the way we deliver to our customers >> and and so it is never lost in our minds that you know we have to take care of and protect our teachers. Um we have invested significantly in tools that enable them to be upskilled. Uh we have trainers internally an academic director who dispenses the training for the teachers. Uh and that is done on the regular weekly really. uh like I said we also have u you know IT platforms that are used to also continue training the teachers but then there's also advantage from the synergies that comes with being part of a big international uh group such as advite so you know we exchange ideas around best practice >> uh we reward our teachers in different ways uh just recently we had uh you know uh top uh performers awards where we celebrated our top performers, teachers that is. >> And um we've also invested significantly in infrastructure. >> Yeah. >> Um you know, sports infrastructure, our classrooms. Um we we always believe that >> you know your classrooms have to be clean. You can't have peeling paint, broken windows. uh everything has to be prim and proper because that is where parents bring the their most important >> asset if I might call it that way. Children are the most precious gift in anyone's life. Yes. >> So if your if if a parent is going to entrust you with their children then you have to make sure that that environment lives up to expectations. >> Yes. >> So we pay a premium in ensuring that all our learning environments are taken care of. uh and and you know running as well as they should. >> Yes, absolutely. And and I want us to delve now into the CBE transition and from your standpoint, what would you say has been the major outli since the inception of competency based curriculum? Because when you look at uh the current world right now, everybody wants to make the money. In fact, others will tell you do a course or pursue a course that will make you get employed faster or will get you a job really quick or will give you networks and also that makes you money really quickly. So if you are to pinpoint exactly what have been the major say gains of CBE since it came into you know operation. >> Yeah. Um I I think the government of Kenya has uh made the right call uh with introducing CBE uh just from what it's called alone you know competency based we came from 844 I I I am a product of 844 and you know we were taught to crumb and prepare for exams >> but CBE is very different you know learners are taught >> the most important skill which is critical thinking Um now yes it's a new curriculum. Yes there have been some teething problems but I've also seen the strides that have been made by the government in advancing u the curriculum just ironing out some of the rough ages uh through stakeholder engagement and uh we've seen it really come along pretty well. I think there's some stability right now uh and I know it's only going to get better. >> Right. Yeah. If you're to profile, you know, in a way that you zoom in panoramic lenses into an astute, resolute, solid student who is a beneficiary or or let's say who's a product of CBE, you proudly say you're a, you know, a product of 844 system. What would you say are the facets that make them competent and if they were to be unleashed out there that survive and compete effectively? Because also competition is good. Yeah. being competitive even in work spaces sometimes you way to the top. So in terms of student wise what would you say the characters of this student who is a beneficiary of CBE? I think this is going to be someone who will have learned their skills very early, identified what they're good at very early. Um, and that is what uh is has been baked into, you know, CBE curriculum. Uh but it's also going to be someone who grows up to be curious, asking questions, uh not taking no for an answer, but someone who's also very laser focused on you know the areas that uh they feel is going to that resonates you know with their with their skill set. >> Yeah. Would you say in terms of introducing like the tertiary tets they're helping out to let's say profile students who initially they weren't let's say you weren't good at physics of course you weren't going to be a doctor or an engineer but since you're talented in maybe crafting or you can do other hands-on courses that makes you a better person because initially 844 it was you must pass with an A >> get an A or a B+ or minimum if you fail maybe a >> [clears throat] >> miners here. So would you say CBE and then introducing in uh tertiary learning institutions it's helping maybe to give chance to learners who previously maybe they would have lost you know their dream and vision. Yeah, 100% 100%. And you know, I I I can't even add anything to what you've said. >> U before it was all about passing your exams and passing really well, but now the world is changing and and with the world changing, there is a lot of desire for students to quickly identify what they're good at and CBE helps them do that. uh TVET also helps you know unpack unlock some of those hidden talents in areas that are generally not covered in universities. I've always been a strong believer that you know uh countries that develop uh are grown by the blue collar professionals. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's interesting because in as much as you're speaking someh highlighting some of this major uh gains in the education sector at large, there's still comparisons, there's still hits and misses. I was reading an update where it said many graduates are actually unemployable and we'll get to it in just a bit. So maybe what is the difference between classroom knowledge versus what's on ground really like the situation on ground. So what is the difference between what you taught in school in class that's classroom knowledge and wisdom versus street smart? I think that's the contrast. >> Yeah. >> Does CBE factor that in? And maybe what's usually the biggest disconnect between classroom knowledge versus you know Hansel knowledge and ground or street knowledge? I think with 844 there was a lot of emphasis on classroom knowledge >> but uh the applicability of it is where there was a disconnect. Um those of us who went through this system, you you'll know that uh once you came out of college or university, >> you had to pretty much learn basically start learning how to apply the knowledge or develop other skills that you're not taught in school that would enable you to to grow in in either professional life or basically a business environment. Yeah. >> Uh now CBE intends to change how those things are done because it's all about identifying your skills and then you know developing competency in those skills and then if you add now institutions like TVET it makes it easy for for people to learn uh how to apply practical skills that will enable them to add value uh in the business environment and also add value in people's lives and thereby Okay. Uh, make a living for themselves. >> Yeah, I think I found it. It says one in five grade nine learners in Kenya cannot read a grade three story. Yet this year they're being asked to choose STEM, arts or social science pathways that will shape the rest of their lives. When you look at that, how do you put this into perspective? A grade nine learner cannot comprehend a grade three story. What is the issue here? I think there's a bit of sensationalization in in that article. >> Okay. >> Because that's not been my experience at all. >> Not been my experience. I' I'd be surprised. My son is also, you know, in the CBE curriculum. >> Mhm. >> And uh I I remember I saw that article. It came out a couple of months ago. >> Was it the Kenyan version? Because there was also an American version too. I don't know if you saw. In fact, it was an American teacher who was saying I think they had given it a demographic of black Americans, not white in terms of skin color. >> It's certainly not Kenya. >> The teacher said it. Yeah, >> it's certainly >> but also there's a teacher there's a Kenyan version and I saw Janet Mog highlighted to as well. So is it true by the way you are from the education sector. Is it true or it's false? >> No, it's false. It is false because how then are you able to even sit for your keer exams and pass you know exceed expectations meet expectations and you know I have seen by and large uh a lot of students really do well in ke and that is just the primary uh you know uh examination. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So you would you would agree that students who are in CBE as matter compared to students who are in 844 if you are to >> Yeah. Yeah. >> to contrast the two put them in social experiments education social experiment you're likely to see some star striking features. >> Absolutely. Because you know they have they growing up in a different world. uh they are exposed to a lot more um opportunities than we had uh access to even computers and uh just some of the tools learning tools that are available now never existed when I was going to school. The first time I came across a computer was at the university. So yeah, they certainly are smarter than we are. >> Yeah, this one is interesting. McKinn's motto is about transformation. What does transforming a child actually look like beyond grads and certificates especially when they're out of that institution? Because we talk about transforming the education sector but still there's issues festering funding etc. skill resklling upsklling. >> Yeah, I think transforming a child first starts with uh having the right uh teachers in the environment a child is in. uh and and the right teacher only comes along if you have hired right and if you're constantly upskilling them. So that is one thing that we do and we do really well. Uh the second thing is also understanding that uh academics is not everything. Academic excellence while is very important to us, it is not everything. what we seek to do is to to empower children to be well-rounded uh and to grow up into young citizens who can thrive in a world that has so many uncertainties. >> So the way you do that without going into details is >> you know develop curiosity in them. >> Uh help them to be confident, stand up and ask questions. u help them to learn how to think and and you know there are many ways we do that >> right >> so it's not only about you know in the classroom that is important it will always be important to us but beyond that including sports I know sports is one of those areas that many uh many people don't really think about >> but sports is important you know there are so many students who are extremely talented >> at sports and you know when we identify those skills We celebrate them, we nurture them and uh we create an environment where they can grow. >> Yeah, absolutely. Actually, last week I was interviewing a guy. He's only 18 years old. He moved to states when he was 16. He's looking forward to be signed to the NBA >> when he matures and gets season and he went there on talent best competency. >> So yeah, shout out to CBE. But also still in that skill uh profile, what would you say a student that's fully formed in terms of them choosing careers that will earn them, you know, monetary benefit? Because the conversation is Yeah, that's what everybody thinks of right now. So what would you say are the major career profiles that anyone who's in the CBE career profiles? Anyone who's in the CBE and any other education system around the world, not just in Kenya, especially in the world that you're living in today, they should focus on because when we look at the future, literally everything is so techified for lack of a better English word. >> Yeah. Um I've always held the belief that uh you should find something that you're good at and and pursue it. I don't think there's any specific uh area where you can say you know if I if I take this pathway uh my future is bright. There are many people who've listened to that kind of thinking >> and um ended up getting misled. I think you find what you're good at and be better than strive to be better than everyone else at it. >> Yeah. >> That is how you thrive in this world. >> Yeah. >> Uh like you said, there's a student who's getting a scholarship NBA. >> There is nothing wrong with that. We have successful musicians, even McKini alumni who are successful uh musicians >> and and it's working out for them. We have professors, we have doctors, we have nurses. M >> so at the end of the day are you doing the best that you can? >> Yeah. >> KS youth are actually very anxious you'd say about the job market as somebody is studying they're looking forward to employability. I think it was last year where we interviewed a guest and I think he was from the employers federation of Kenya is it federation of employers of Kenya. Yeah I don't know. Yeah but correct me if I'm wrong or comment section. They were saying some of the learners that are being churned out of this learning institution are going for the same same jobs that are already occupied by the same same people who are still upskilling to continue being in the same same jobs. And I'm asking that in a sense of how can school build resilience between what they're teaching people in class versus what's being you know uh expected for you in the job market. Um, one of the best probably you know something that we are doing uh at McKini is exposing learners to different uh professionals uh where we invite experts captains of industries across different sectors to come and speak to these learners. Um that is important because it it helps the young mind understand >> that there is there isn't only one path to success. There are many different ways to success. >> Uh and you know in those forums the learners ask questions. Uh and they also learn from those captains of industry that uh you know the different pathways to arriving at a place. Yeah. >> Uh someone may be ending up becoming you know a CEO of a company. >> Yeah. didn't just go through a straight path. You know, there there are many different detours that people have made in some cases and and and so when learners get to experience that from the horse's mouth, then they know that, you know, there are more ways than one >> to get to whatever it is that you want to get to when you become an adult. And and that opens up a a world of possibilities to them really instead of constantly going after the same old jobs. Yeah, speaking of that, uh, traditionally from way back, uh, I know since you you're a beneficiary of 844, parents would push being a teacher. I think being a teacher was so golden like there's there's a golden era of being a teacher, a doctor, an engineer, a pilot. Which other one was was also golden back in the day? Is it uh being a nurse? Yeah, I think those were like the most prestigious jobs. If somebody in a family made it to be a doctor, an engineer, a pilot or a nurse, they are considered to be extremely you know reputable. So maybe what would you say are other careers that >> are being slept on if parents would allow such uh competency based education curriculum like CBE to take shape. It would open up a bigger you know avenue for youngsters to pursue their dreams and vision. What careers do you think are slept on? I think all careers are valid. All careers are valid whether in in the white collar sector or even in the blue collar sector like I had alluded to earlier on. Um I've always believed that you know countries that have grown and thrived uh did so because they had a huge population of blue collar operators who you know went on their business and did it well. M >> um there are jobs right now that don't exist that our learners are only going to see once they've grown up. >> So as you are aware you know the world is changing very rapidly. >> Um then there's introduction of things like AI etc. Uh the possibilities are endless. Uh so the whole idea here is just to arm yourself with the necessary tools >> uh and and make sure that you know you're doing something that you're really good at and do it so well that no one else can come and you know uh fight for that space >> uh the rest will take care of itself. >> Yeah. Speaking of AI, machine learning is actually revolutionalizing your space in terms of how and now I think I mentioned STEM. Even Tik Tok itself the platform has that STEM part where I think it's majorly used a lot in China >> but I think for them they have a different app though but it was basically put there so that people can >> go for education edutainment rather because you'd see teachers uh doing different mathematics to lessons together and then shorts are uploaded there >> for learners to consume. So if you to look at how uh technology is affecting or rather how is it how is it's being used in classroom especially for teachers and also if you to put in the learners what areas would you say have received a major facelift in terms of highlighting and knowledge and information in the STEM. Yeah, I think reading >> uh for us specifically and uh you know maths and sciences um we have AI tools that we use to help uh learners uh access uh instruction at their level and uh but we like I said before AI tools are not there to replace your traditional learning experience but they're there to augment >> they're there to help a teacher also know what level their students are at >> uh so that they know exactly how to uh how to help that student. >> Right. >> Um >> I I strongly believe that you know any institution that is serious about dispensing education must take advantage of these tools because that's a world we currently live in. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know this this teacher who went viral because she was constantly recording classroom sessions as content. Yeah. But I think that's that's the maybe the the light part of it. Are there ways that teachers that are not comfortable to use technology uh being loyed out because the conversation is embrace AI. Don't let it use you but use it to adjust or advance or give a facelift to your skills already. What of those that are reluctant or hesitant or maybe that I think there stages of as well early adopters and late adopters. What of those that are reluctant and hesitant to use tech to advance in their education practice or maybe also they don't have resources because I'm picturing interior look at the interior sector in the villages where you know a smartphone is expensive to have unless maybe the government goes there with a sponsorship computers PCs etc. they won't see it. >> Yeah. Well, uh the good thing about the way uh the world is set up right now is that uh there are centers in some areas where you know there computers that can be accessed. We have NOS's that are helping um to the extent they can. Um but again the big question here is can can a learner access education and do well without access to computers? Yes, they can. >> It's possible. >> It is possible. It is possible and uh you know it's it's happening. uh but where there are opportunities to augment the learning experience using uh computers and AI tools then you know that should not be denied of those students >> right because when you look at the interior the interior part or the interior the interior avenues of our country there's there's less shining light on the plight of students who are there in the northern parts of our country at central But even though we are crying loudly about capitation, there's still other festering issues. Uh let me ask you at McKini School, some of the students that you guys have managed to produce that are competing effectively out there. What areas would would you pinpoint exactly and say they excelled in when they were in classroom and now that they're out there, this is actually what's making them to keep that track record of continued success. I think the overarching theme here beyond uh the classroom and academic excellence uh which again you know McKini is known for is in developing students who are bold uh who uh are comfortable in their skin uh who ask the right questions um that I think is important and that has helped you know our alumni succeed But also uh we have had a a very solid network of you know students uh and because of those networks they have formed beyond the classroom uh they've been able to take advantage of that hold handing and uh you know put themselves in in spaces or rooms where you know their talents are seen and they're given opportunities to thrive. >> Yeah. Okay. That's that's a lot of credit for Mckini. right for when you look at issues like teacher shortages and uneven preparedness even though I think this article says the government has recruited more than 100 teachers since 2022 it was actually the president's promise and he even said he'll do it another round I think early next year maybe towards the end of this year maybe what do you believe should be done in terms of addressing this because I'm looking at it in terms of skill gap but again the same teachers are still crying out loud loud for low wages insurance manos etc. >> And that contributes as well to the plight of you know what's facing or the crisis among teachers basically teacher shortage. What would you advise that can be adjusted so that we have enough because they say we spend in fact they say our primary rather our secondary parents are teachers uh we spend a lot of time in school compared to our primary parents who are caregivers. Yeah. What would you advise? >> Um, a lot has been done by the government, no doubt about that. Um, but there's still room for improvement. There's always room for improvement. um in terms of issues around pay in terms of issues around uh teacher placement um you a country like Kenya where there's a lot of emphasis on education um you know the government can do more um but it's also up to us as you know private player uh p private sector players to also carry our uh our end of the weight uh which we are doing. Um opportunities for you know private schools to continue thriving uh is going to help alleviate some of these concerns around opportunities for teachers. >> Yeah, there's an interesting update here that somebody said the most urgent work is not even inventing a new education curriculum but making the existing one work for the majority of schools. >> Yeah. Uh should that have been maybe prior on the list before the roll out because now there's teacher crisis, there's underfunding, there's also upskilling, reskilling and then STEM. It means that some of these teachers have literally they have to go back to school and upskill or reskill again. You know, as uh as someone who has uh worked in in uh in a startup, I can tell you that rolling out something new always has challenges. You can have the best laid plans, but they're always going to be challenges. They're called teething problems and that's what we are currently dealing with. >> Are we tracking in the right direction? >> I have all the confidence that, you know, we're tracking in the right direction. challenges are going to be there, but eventually they are going to be ironed out. >> Some of these problems that we currently see um are problems that were probably not anticipated. Um you know, there is a phrase that goes um um the law of unintended consequences. you plan everything but then as a result of that plan something comes up that presents itself as a problem that you hadn't anticipated. >> Uh but what matters is that the government is firmly behind trying to solve these issues. >> Uh the government is keen on you know stakeholder engagement uh and uh you know the government has also opened up the space for private players to engage and make recommendations. Um if if we are all in this boat, which we are, right, there's really no reason for us to use our oes to start beating each other. >> The best thing to do is to use it to row. Uh if there's a leakage, you better row to safety instead of fighting each other. >> So I think uh >> the the intention is is very clear. >> Uh we are just you know all the stakeholders especially the government is trying to figure out the how. >> Right. >> Yeah. Should it have done it better? Maybe. But here's where we are, >> right? >> Here's where we are. We can't look back. We have to keep marching forward >> and we have to figure out the solutions to the problems as we are marching forward. >> Yeah. What about capitation crisis? >> I'm not very close to that issue for me to really form an opinion. >> Uh I know there's a problem in that area. >> Uh I know schools are underfunded. Uh I I know that you know the government is trying the best they can. >> Sure. >> Um I I don't know what the solution is. It's easy for me to sit here and say allocate more funds >> but you know I don't run the government budget for me to be able to understand the dynamics at play there. >> Yeah. >> Right. But also as we move close to uh the end of this conversation, most of the time the conversation or rather some of the address is centered on stakeholders and industry players in education, the ministry etc. We sometimes forget to include uh the student so that it's a partnership between learners uh the schools or the institutions and then parents at large. When you picture what has been happening even with the burning of schools, the strikes and etc. What triggers this sudden wave of evil that just you know spews over and it becomes a virus and then schools are burning. It's one after another. Who is to blame if you are to streamline that? Cuz when you look at even at how it's been reported there's people are dating it during a certain times or a certain season of a certain leader. This school was banned because of this and that. Yeah. Who should we let's let's not use the word blame. Who should we hold accountable when such you know issues are cropping up like burning of schools, teachers and students sometimes clashing you know go >> yeah I think uh there needs to be better stakeholder engagement and you're right we can no longer continue conducting affairs uh leaving the main stakeholders away from the table and the main stakeholders here in education are the learners whether it's at the tertiary level or you know school level uh they need to be heard they need to feel uh understood >> and uh and the only way that can be done is you know through stakeholder engagement >> right >> uh that is inclusive >> um and especially now more than ever in the world of social media >> you know um news travels very fast >> uh and you know if If a certain if certain schools learn that you know school X uh did this and uh the outcome was whatever it was. >> Yes. >> Then you know people pick up on that and say oh if they could do it then we can also do that. >> Yeah. >> So but I think at the root of it is stakeholder engagement. >> U students also have desires. uh they have uh questions, they have issues that they feel need to be addressed. >> Yeah. >> Uh those channels should be made available for them to be able to to to share their views. >> Yeah. Typically, if you were to look at a Kenyan school, do they even have such avenues really? I'm sure at McKini you guys have such uh facilities or such have set up such an environment that's you know open-ended allows a student even to point out an issue with a teacher. Way back teachers were were gods. >> You can't say teacher I'm unsatisfied with this and that here. But now students can fully argue with a teacher about a formula and even outprove them right or prove them wrong. >> Yeah. >> Right. So would you say maybe in terms of uh partnership and collaboration most the modus of pirandi or the model of operation is more of I'll say and you'll do ABCD and if you don't the consequences are punishment and that's what's triggering rebellion in schools and that's why we end up seeing fires doaries being burnt down you know strikes etc. M >> do you believe there needs to be a difference or a change in model of operation for for teachers specifically? >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, when uh when there's disquite in a certain area, there's got to be a reason why it is there. whether you believe or you agree with you know the the group that feels uh either disenfranchised or otherwise unheard >> it's important that you listen to them and they feel heard >> right >> um and I think that you know not only in education but in all spheres of life people need to feel heard their grievances uh when they air their grievances you know they need to feel that you know they've been heard Um you can't solve all grievances but you know feeling heard is one step. >> Okay. As we close it up before you tell them how they can get to plug in with you there's an interesting question uh uh technology transforming education first. What's innovation at Mckini that you're most excited about or that you've already launched and then the message that you have to a parent or a learner watching right now that feels stuck or left behind. You can combine that in 30 seconds as we exit. >> Yeah. What innovation at McKini that's really start striking. >> We always innovating. Always innovating. Um we as at day after tomorrow we are going to be launching our new Cambridge school at Runda. >> Um okay. And that is just one of a continued uh and and intentional uh plan that we roll out again rising to the needs of parents. Um so we have a new Cambridge uh uh school uh on our Runda campus. Uh so please check us out uh reach out to us through our different channels. Uh we will be more than happy to host you. Um we >> message to our parents >> message to our parents is u you know you care about your children there's no doubt about that uh and you want the best for your child. Uh if you want a child who's going to grow up to be curious, uh determined, hardworking, self-aware, uh and and really knows how to open doors into rooms that will open up opportunities for them, then come and check us out at Mckini Schools. >> Right. You had mention of channels that can be in touch. Please, this is the time to plug it in shortly as we exit. We we are on uh LinkedIn. Uh we are on all the social media platforms. Um and you know you can reach us on our main campus at Gong Road along Riara Road. We are also at state house. >> We are at uh Runda formerly Resund and in Kisumu. >> Yeah. >> The the LinkedIn platform the name of it is >> Mckin schools. >> Mckin schools everywhere. It's a syndicated school honestly. Just Google it. >> You'll see it. And thank you so much Godfrey for your invaluable insights. He's general manager at McKini Schools. And we wish you nothing but the best of luck. Continue doing tremendous works in transforming education. >> All right, we want to thank you too as well for watching us from 7:00 a.m. to 10 a.m. and we'll absolutely see you tomorrow bright and early. I and my co James at Brian channel at James hashtag is in the morning. Thank you for watching. See you tomorrow.