“Car Values Are Plummeting!” Doug Demuro Exposes MASSIVE Price Cuts, Deals, & Ripoffs in 2025

I often think about this if I was just somebody who didn't care about cars what a great burden that would be lifted off of me this this this this this I drive around and I'm like I see Priuses and I'm like I wish I could just have [Music] that handling is just Next Level precise your website is the website I check every single day there's always cool stuff this F430 Spider is currently for sale and it's being auctioned live on cars and bids do you have any predictions then for the future of the car market a lot of car enthusiasts are angry now like I can't make money on my cars it's like well that's the normal state of the market for for 60 years so for people who want to make money on cars what are you seeing these days for investment grade Vehicles end of 21 was the absolute peak of the craziness they are very rich and you are very poor I think the only way right now to truly make money on a lot of these cars is [Music] Doug deiro thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee Hour podcast yeah this is incredible you said this was all designed and owned by an architect before you this space There Was An Architect who built it out for his own personal car collection and then he like outgrew it sort of like needed a different space that had Windows understandably and uh and so then he moved into that space and he leases this space to us and we it's it's been our headquarters it's been good it's gorgeous I mean I want something like this in Vegas yeah it's cool I mean there's drawbacks okay so like when I'm shooting like when you're shooting stuff the there's no rooms right so like if someone has a meeting they the cars are being used every day every single day the cars are used as um like off like like room meeting rooms because that's the only place that you can have a zoom call and not interrupt filming that's going on and so that's kind of an issue and then also the fact that you can't see the Sun during the day is a problem it's good it's like a casino it like keeps you going the guyed it from had his had a lift over here and he had his mechanic work on his cars he was like we loved it cuz we didn't put up we didn't put up a clock and he couldn't see time he would just keep working working working away he realized it's 9 o' so I would prefer though just get some light you know light nice you could put in the fake Windows have you seen those with the LCD screens or whatever fake Windows we'll put some fake okay cool the a lot has changed since our last podcast a few years ago with cars and bids doing incredibly well that's where we're here now did I had I launched cars and bids when we barely barely it had it had just started so like probably fall of 20 we last time or summer yeah and then in the process too you've you've accumulated some really incredible cars like Kosh behind you the Carrera GT that service I know I'm sorry it's not here it they promised to be back two weeks ago yeah and uh a huge infusion of capital into cars and bids Yeah by an investor that's incredible yeah congratulations thank you it's gone great cars and bids is killing it we are running or auctioning like between 30 and 40 cars every single day I mean in the winter it starts to slow down a little bit but um and we're we're into that now December it's funny your website is the website I check every single day every day is there's always cool stuff send me a listing way too often way too often sometimes I'm seeing prices that I'm just like this makes sense to buy if I needed a car yeah stuff's getting cheap again there was a period especially during when we launched cuz we launched in 20 when the car market was in this sort of turmoil where stuff got expensive and that would held to be held true in 21 and 22 um and stuff's gotten down now to a point where it's like as an Enthusiast as as the owner of a car market auction website I'm like darn it but as an Enthusiast I'm like yeah let's let's get some cheap cars up in here so how has the market changed over the last three years for cars uh pretty significantly you know three years ago which I guess would have been end of 21 I mean that was the peak ended 21 was the absolute peak of the craziness which is when all those covid shutdown had really stopped production of new cars or heavily diminished production of new cars and so used cars had gotten incredibly valuable and at the same time money was cheap and so used cars were becoming more valuable new cars were not available people were getting incredibly low interest loans it was UN I mean it was it was Thunderdome like we couldn't put we couldn't put reserves on cars high enough to sell like every people come in ask for crazy reserves we'd give it a shot it would sell every single time it was just crazy things are different now now the the supply and demand in the market is certainly caught up for most automakers I would say some automakers are still are still in an under Supply situation that's carried over from Co and they've never dug out of it but a lot of the automakers have caught back up so new cars are are cheaper now capital is more expensive right getting loans is harder more expensive to finance cars and so that has made new cars cheaper which in turn has pushed used car prices back down and the market is considerably different now and we still have people clinging to values two years ago when they're submitting their cars and it's like oh there was a time but it ain't now how do you ease people into that when they think their cars were 50 Grand and you say well it's really worth 30 we try to sell them send them as many comps as we can on our site on other sites bring a trailer but also just advertisement cars cars that are being listed and it's like hey dude you want 50 but this car is similar to yours and they're asking 40 like you're not going to get you know and sometimes people don't buy it and think that we're trying to sell you put them in a low Reserve to make our money and cheat them out and honestly those a lot of those people go away pissed at us and then come back four months later and they are like yeah well I couldn't sell it on Facebook Marketplace I think we can try again and a lot of times it's like well yeah but now the numberers a little lower I mean that's the situation these people are often chasing the market down and a lot of those people have negative equity from that period in 2122 when they were all going ho about buying a car and now the market is different do you have any predictions then for the future of the car market I mean I think it goes back to the way it was you know it's interesting everybody a lot of car enthusiasts are angry now like I can't make money on my cars it's like well that's that's the normal state of the market for for 60 years right you you bought a car a new car especially you couldn't flip it and suddenly make 10 grand like that was an unusual time and I think that a lot of car enthusiasts are upset about that but like cars depreciate and my my general prediction is that most cars will no longer be able to be flat or even an increase they will depreciate like they used to and we're already seeing a ton of cars now starting to come down from those some cars were high CO happened they were flat for 2 three years and now they're starting to drop again and it's like this is this is normal this is how a market works with Goods that are newer versions of those goods are produced that's just how it should be so what do people do if they have negative equity because the issue that I see is that values were so inflated that this isn't just normal negative equity this is I got a loan at $100,000 for a car that was worth 70 and now it's worth 35 yeah and especially this is true on electric cars right those cars have depreciated so quickly and they were some of the cars that were the hottest during that period when you think back the rivan I mean we were selling when rivan first showed up we were selling rivian for $135,000 you can now get a pickup rivan for uh under 50 in the 40s and that's a pretty substantial decline in what ultimately amounted to be three years right um I mean yeah what do you do if you have negative equity you got your only options are your only options right you keep paying the loan and just kind of wait it out which a lot of people don't want to do or you have to try to roll that into the next car and that's not a great situation either or I mean it's a it's a tough call and a lot of people are in that boat and they just have to kind of keep going on if if you if you find yourself in situations like that that you can't just get get another new car you know it's not doesn't always really work like that some automakers who are a little more creative on financing might be able to get you in there on a new car um but it's generally not a good idea to follow up on those things yeah if what if you if you already have negative trying to yeah I mean because you're going to end up with negative equity on the new car too you at the end of the day you just got to probably I what the Smart Financial thing to do would be to just kind of wait that out or if you can depending on your rate you know pay off pay off some portion of it or sell the car pay off the balance and get something cheaper that's more affordable for you those are probably the smart things to do now we were hearing a lot about a repo crisis of people just walking away from the car loans has that happened I like it hasn't I people have were talking about that as as being a thing and I've heard that Carlo delinquencies are on the rise but I don't know it's certainly in our corner of the market where we're dealing mostly Enthusiast cars a lot of cash buyers the enthusiasts a lot of times stretch like crazy but not like the kind of people who are buying Bentley's or Maserati right like those those people are really they want the flashy showoff car that's not like the 911 buyer the BMW M3 buyer usually and so we haven't seen like that level of just like I can't I can't afford I'm going to get out of I'm to walk away I don't I don't hear a lot of those stories in our corner of the world maybe it's happening like the big truck segment where people get into $1,800 payments and they're like damn but usually with the truck they use it for work yeah so it's one of those things where it's actually making the money even if it's costing hopefully a lot of those people just want a cool truck you know that's true why are EV prices crashing so much though why is that market so far man if you want a great a good used car cheap and you can deal with the electric thing those things are I've been looking at Teslas lately the prices that they're selling for wild you sold uh a Tesla Model y that was like almost brand new with the XEL uh you know paint protection I think it was like 33 Grand we're we're selling plaids in the 50s yes that's a th000 horsepower yeah we're selling uh Lucid airs for half off a car is a year old you know like it is wild what has happened to the EV Market it's almost too good to pet not to at some price no matter what you think of EVS politically or personally or at some price you start to be like that's interesting yeah the plaided 50 seems like such a good deal for a 2020 too plaid I did not know that was happening that breaks my heart not you know what Jack has a history of buying history of buying at Peaks it's like the ongoing joke of the channel I decided finally after years of waiting because I you know delayed gratification no no no I'll buy it when I'm more financially comfortable when I have a cushion I finally shelled out the money to buy a Tesla Model Y and I spent for I think it was completely the bass I used existing inventory though to even get it cheaper and the only thing that changed was I had white interior and I got the long range on the Tesla wife you didn't use my referral code I used my dad's so yeah you you want to get upset at that that's whatever I paid 58 grand for it plus tax when was no no it was 58 all all all in this was September of not last year but the prior year SE 22 or maybe it was September of last year it was September of last year I okay yeah I mean it's not to be clear that's still a great car you should just keep driving I love it's worth 50 you know 58 whatever I paid for it but it's you know depressing knowing that I could have gotten a plaid or something like that it is crazy how those cars have lost value and to be honest the Teslas although they have a lost significant value there's some other ones out there that are even Wilder I mean I look at the Lucid numbers I look at hum vs those giant things yeah I remember when those were selling we sold one for 300 or close and those are $100,000 trucks now if you're lucky you might be able to get it under like the 85 95 depending on Mile stuff like that that's a big hit you know the the the heavy hitter guys who wanted the first one paid 300 those guys lost 200 grand in value in 24 months probably I mean that's really aot why are they crashing more than any other car why I think at the end of the day the the demand for EVS is heavily subsidized by the government incentives and the demand is just not as strong as the government wishes that it was and the automakers are heavily subsidized to make EVS because they also get significant incentives and they can pass those incentives on to the consumer I mean they can apply the the consumer incentives to the lease payments and get the leases lower and so there's real benefit for them but at the end of the day the secondary there's not the primary Market is propped up artificially by these incentives the secondary Market doesn't have incentives and so that's where you see the actual value of these cars and it is yikes but if you're interested in a used one it's it really legitimately does start to become kind of appealing arivan at 40 some is like that's that's kind of I mean those are cool those are cool the first original one's at 850 horsepower they're off-road like crazy they're nice inside even if you think it's a bit overhyped AI is suddenly everywhere from self-driving cars to molecular medicine to business efficiency and if it's not in your industry yet it's coming very quickly but the problem is AI needs a ton of speed and processing power so how can you compete without cost spiraling out of control well it's time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud our sponsor Oracle Cloud infrastructure or oci for short oci is a blazing fast and secure platform for your infrastructure database application development plus all of your AI and machine learning workloads oci also costs 50% less for compute and 80% less for networking so you're saving a pile of money thousands of businesses have already upgraded to oci including vone Thompson Reuters and sunno AI on top of that right now Oracle is offering to cut your current cloud bill in half when you 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and that's a tough situation I feel bad for that almost everybody is in this boat I keep hearing this from every automaker contact I have um I was at Porsche the other day dropping my C for service I was asking about Macan EV because there's an electric Macan now and they were like we got inbound that aren't sold and that's a brand new I mean that car came I've seen three on the road that's a brand new Porsche that already that this is in California where inbound ones aren't sold can you imagine in Texas and other places where EVS aren't as hot and then you take away incentives and it's like the whole structure these the automakers are just going to have to do a huge pivot and who knows in four years things might completely change and then they have to figure out how to Pivot back and it's like this has just gotten out of control and I was very diso pointed the Biden Administration changed the incentives drastically even from what they were before so you had an incentive then you had less incentives then you had changed incentives and it was like very difficult for the automakers to really keep up with what were some of those incentives my understanding was that it was the 7500 tax credit then they got rid of it and then they brought it back and then something about depreciation what ended up happening that when Biden's Administration brought back the significant incentive they they had all these means tests the car had to be built in the United States you couldn't earn more than a certain amount of money yes like you're it was income tied and some of that stuff made sense but the problem was you had to jump through all these hoops to get the incentive in the past they they were like we just want to get EVS out the door so we're just going to give everybody 7500 bucks well when you start putting seven different things on it it's like well that actually now it's now it's like a maze for the consumer to try to figure out which cars qualify and also it just lowers the likelihood of this accomplishing the stated goal of getting EES out the door yeah so if you had a magic wand and you could do whatever you want to when it comes to EVS in terms of incentives or no incentives or really anything to to Spur up the auto market what would you do this is not a popular opinion in in in the world but I would let capitalism sorted out I hate to say it I think ultimately it's funny it's probably the right answer though I I think the problem is though that like we do have an environmental issue that capitalism probably wouldn't sort out until like the very end when the polarized caps have melted and then we're all screwed it's like oh bu an electric car but like the current situation didn't work all that well and it's certainly not working doing the slingshotting between the I I would probably let capitalism sorted out more than they are now um I will say Eevees are pretty cheap to produce we had Chinese cars in the in this in the studio the other day and they have some pretty compelling EVs and I think the the the populace would actually be compelled into an EV if they were a little better educated about them I think a lot of people in the middle of the country who hate EVS if they knew better I think actually they wouldn't hate them I think there's some benefits they're more reliable they're cheaper to own um but also they're I think they can be made cheaply in a way you're not you're not you're not developing an engine right a gasoline combustion engine and so these Chinese companies we had a car in the in the studio the other day the called xiaomi was the company and they had three years ago they were building cell phones only and then they had a car that was tremendously competent 3 years later and that that wouldn't have happened 20 years ago when you were you had to develop an engine and get it certified by all these or these governing bodies Etc and so that maybe maybe will help bring the prices down and and in that situation maybe more people would buy them but for now I I don't know I I China is adopting EVS without significant credits the the market there really wants these cars and I think that would happen to our Market too if they were Priced Right and and if people that's interesting if there were no tariffs to bring in a Chinese car to the United States so cheap they'd be cheap 20 grand for a new car yeah absolutely or or 40 grand for a car that performs like a plaid but but you know is a model 3 Model 3 priced rival they sell them in Mexico they sell them in Latin America they sell them in Europe really Chinese cars Chinese electric cars yeah so Elon says and obviously this may be a little bit biased coming from Elon Musk but he says that it makes sense in the future uh for all cars to be electric from an engineering perspective yeah do you ever see a future without gas cars yeah I mean it's inevitable at fossil fuels will eventually I mean yeah um and I agree with them generally EES have some real benefits one big drawback though is you know you got to charge them yeah you got to like plug them in and all that get some strong solar panels to put on the roof I always thought that would be pretty crazy I think eventually it could be built into the roads where it's that would there are there are cars that have inductive Chargers it's just you're leaving up to the government to to do something like that it's like and can you imagine the infrastructure investment and is electric if you're going to make that level investment is electric really what you want to invest in should we be talking about hydrogen should we talking about I don't know um but from an engineering standpoint I agree and it really is they're more reliable all these there's you know there's a cottage industry now of people converting uh classic cars into EVS because you you lose the engine noise but you gain reliability you gain power um it's it's generally easier to figure out there's these these EV battery situation the amount of components just in a standard EV versus like a you know what I think realistically could happen is nuclear power in a car and imagine you have like a little like a battery type thing that you put in a car seriously but but it'll run forever and it'll power like you have a little battery that powers your whole house with like a little reor and every car definitely 50 years look back on us or 100 years it's like barbaric like we like we see pictures of old New York City where they have horses and we're like that's insane there was a combustion in the chamber like it there was explosions and then EX exhaust came out like that's that's so stupid you had to charge it and plug it in and wait overnight to drive overnight that's going to be one of those things people be like what you couldn't just do it it just doesn't take a minute but it is a weird time right now right we're in this weird transition when I was a kid it was settled law you had an engine automakers made better engines than each other now we'll see what happens on a personal level at this point how many cars do you have I have six automobiles at the at the moment any electric autom no however literally yesterday I just finished installing the second EV charger at my home and so I'm ready you're like why do you need two I need two okay um I have decided I mean I I see the future like I see the writing on the wall and so I think that that's coming one of my problems is that I drive cross country every summer and then back and the doing that trip in an EV adds like I just calculated adds a full day yes which is and then a day back and that's a lot of annoyance to be honest people are like you just drive for a few hours and then plug it in and I do 18 hour days on the road like I don't have a problem with that I'll do, 1400 miles in a day and Eevee just doesn't you can't do it it's just not possible so one of my cars will probably be gas as long as I can but I think it's I think I'm ready to make the switch a little weird question but when you're doing, 1400 miles in a day do you have any like tricks to being able to stay like awake and open on the road because I even make the drive between like LA and Vegas and that's like four and a half hours sometimes like a little bit that D especially sucks it's very very very boring but if you're doing that many you know that distance in a day do you have any like tricks or something um I uh I just listen to a lot of music and I just hang out with my dog and no I I just like do it you do it solo there no one else in the car yeah crazy just music well people people ride and they want to go to the bathroom and it's like we're not going to the bathroom we got to do, 1400 miles a day we're driving from San Dallas today have you ever had to relieve yourself while driving no I I can wait till the fuel stops okay just just checking I don't know that's impressive that no coffee no like no I don't drink coffee or anything like that you just you just get out on the road and do it it listen it's really annoying it's it's becoming more annoying too as the as I get older but there's no other option for me in my situation and it's just it's it's what it is it's just what you have to do what do you mean there's no other option you fly I live in the summer 3,000 miles away I bring my dog and like I need a car I need the car and I need all the stuff and so like it's pretty I could I could sign someone to take the dog and pay them I could ship the car I could ship the stuff or you kill three birds with one stone and you just you're driving through Oklahoma being like Yep this is what I'm doing today and it's great your a trick to like starting early in terms of like missing traffic like what time do you wake up you got you got to get started super early and when you're going east it sucks because you lose time every day because of the time zones but when you're going west oh you get it back and it's beautiful you know you cross a time zone line suddenly it's an hour you're just gain an hour you have more driving you can do wow it's not fun I don't like consider it to be especially fun I don't recommend it to people I used to enjoy it a lot and I really don't anymore I have flat tire this summer doing it and that sucked um but it's it's it's and what what car do you drive I have a Toyota seoa which is a giant sport utility vehicle that has camouflag fenders so that's that's one of the six it's one of the six yeah what what do the other five look like I have a Mercedes station wagon that's like my regular round Town Car that's the car that's going to go electric when when the time coms and then I have this Lamborghini count I have a CR GT I have a Ford GT we share this with in opposite colors yep and I have a convertible Mercedes G Wagon which is an embarrassing automobile but I love it and those are my six why is that an embarrassing car cuz the G wagon itself is kind of embarrassing right you know you see people driving around you're like AR don't you think it's a little much a little it's a lot you know to take in type that is gravitates toward Beverly Hills Hollywood which I feel like you see that a lot oh everywhere you do but there's definitely like I want to project an image and then the convertible one is like I want to project an image and also this is weird and it's a convertible but it's great I can take it Offroad and I put the roof down I take my kid to daycare and it and he loves it and it's great it's a perfect car for me um but every time someone comes up to me on the road and tells me they like it I kind of assume they're someone I wouldn't want to be friends with it's like if you're into this car now everyone that I know cuz I know two people in La who have the convertible one they're car enthusiasts like they they've owned the car for a long time they didn't buy it because it's but it's just it's it's a niche car that they enjoy to a lay man I feel like I expect whenever I see one of those pulling up like a like a supermodel to walk out with like a tiny dog in her purse that's what I expect that is kind of the image like a very high maintenance aggressive kind of type person with yeah like a tiny dog and like it somewhere just just take it you know like and I don't want to be thought of like that but that's I'm I like the car so you know it's a power top I push a button the top goes down you don't have any idea how many things you got to do in a jeep to get the roof down you things you got to twist and lift off I just press a button that that's that's luxury so what cars have you noticed right now that are the most in demand uh that's that's an interesting question um in terms of used cars Enthusiast cars Lamborghinis are absolutely having a moment B kunos the Diablo The Merc Lago all those cars are are when I was a kid a Lamborghini was like a drug dealer car and like you rapper car yeah rappers like cribs and like the connoisseurs had Ferraris yeah and that's changed these older Lambos are finding a new audience with real car enthusiasts who are really starting to like get into him and appreciate him and take him back to stock take the wrapper wheels off them take the tinted tail lights off you know all the stupid crap that people did in 2003 to MTV crib and those cars are shooting up I'm stunned to see Lamborghini Market every single day it's crazy obviously Porsches are incredibly hot right now that's every car Enthusiast or WN toe car Enthusiast is trying to get into the Porsche World getting allocations for special new Porsches is impossible it's almost a game in itself surprisingly it seems like Ferrari has actually dropped off a little bit um they're kind of over producing it seems like and esec except for the very specialist cars it seems like Ferrari doesn't quite have the gravitas over those other brands that it once did um SUVs old SUVs are really hot still old Scouts Broncos Land Cruisers things like that people are really into them um but I would say generally the market is cooling like we were talking about like I I don't see a lot of cars right now that are that are shooting up or about or poised to shoot up I would say just about everything is cooling off do you think that's because the market might be topping out a bit and people are more cautious or that everyone who wanted a car has bought a car that's certainly happened I think a lot of the people there was there was a lot of horse trading that went on in 2021 and 22 a lot of people who held on to cars for years suddenly saw their value double and they got out and new people who wanted the car for their whole life got in and they don't want to sell especially because they're not going to make money right now they think if they hold for longer they might and they don't need the money in a lot of cases people who bought f40s or whatever um so I think there's definitely some of that and also just yeah the market is just a little bit slower and so you know things just aren't shooting up like they were I think I think a lot of cars had a quick rise and now there's just nowhere for them to continue to rise after after three years of in some cases cars went up 50 60% it's not going to sustain so it'll continue so these cars will continue to get more valuable but just not at the at that rate yeah what gives a car an IT Factor that's interesting I mean I think I think these days the analog stuff is really hot everybody wants the old manual transmission stuff cars with fewer driver AIDS cars with fewer screens fewer computers that's like the hottest thing which is which is by and large sort of the you know late '70s to the 2007 2009 um those cars are really hot which coincides with people who are our age getting into money and and okay maybe I might want to consider buying a car like that um but I think that you know low production value is a big one movie if car was in a movie it's special that I mean people come up to me all the time my Ford GT and I remember I saw Ford versus Ferrari and even though it's the new Ford GT and not the old GT40 there was a huge there was a huge lift at least in Awareness um Wolf of Wall Street and the count obviously a big one um and and just a good backstory helps to you know this was the first like wedge the K was the first wedge car and and the first car with scissor doors etc etc um designed by this Italian master when he was young and I think cars that have sort of some of that cool history you the F40 is Enzo's last car that that that helps things like that help cars that are made just for Rich guys to seem cool they don't they don't have as specialness to what cars have you noticed that have lost some of the it Factor lately you know it's interesting Ferrari for so many years had had like the the market cornered on the it factor and and you buy a Ferrari and you had to sell it back to the dealer because they were worth more and then you split the profits with the deal it was a great situation and they in order their public company now in order to really kill you know get all the squeeze all the juice out of every buyer they've really come out with some cars that are probably too expensive probably too overproduced and they are dropping in value like crazy and the first time in my life like I could walk into a Ferrari dealer and buy a couple of new Ferraris today without a waiting list and that's interesting um and you have to wonder whether that continues does Porsche kind of come up and start taking the mantle that Ferrari once had it's interesting to see that meanwhile older Ferraris are starting to get more desirable because I think a lot of people are looking at the past and saying this isn't coming back it's interesting you mentioned the Ferrari uh being able to walk in and and get a car I saw that the SUV is now beginning to sell under sticker but the dealers say that there's a 2-year list it depends on the situation the SUV is still hot SV just came out six months ago um and and so I find that it's that it's I've found that it is still hot they still seem to be selling for decent money the one that it's really getting they're really getting killed on is the sf90 which is like A600 to $700,000 kind of super sports hyper car superar and that's just a tough price point right now when when when when capital is is more expensive interest rates are higher and and 700 Grand is a lot of money especially on a car that isn't limited production so is it still possible to buy a Ferrari and then sell it back to the dealer because this is something I learned about for the first time like a year ago I didn't know that there was so many like handshake agreements like hey we'll sell you this car but just sell it back to us so we could then resell it for even higher I had no idea this was a thing and I think what ends up happening in a lot of cases is if you play that game and you play it to its conclusion then you will get selected to buy the really high-end stuff um which really do gain value so if you're willing to buy aroma aroma Coupe all the other gtc4 Luso and sf90 Etc lose money on all of them they will start submitting you for cars like the sp3 which just came out which cost $2 and half million but in the secondary Market those cars are already selling for double and so if you're willing to roll the dice and lose a lot of money up front Ferrari will kind of start slipping you some of those really really super highend cars and that is absolutely are they giving those to average buyers who are just you know working their way because I've heard that they need like you have to have a collection of these other cars to be selected show up to Ferrari events in order to get cars like the sp3 it's not just buy a Rob by a gtc4 l there's more to it but those are the basics still and I got buddies who get all those cars and have and have multi- multi-million dollar car collection with everything you could possibly want and even they are still required to buy the Romas and the other and they they basically what they do is they buy it at the dealer they drive it home or to their collection they never touch it because they don't care about those cars and then after the six-month lockup is over they take it right back to the dealer they say sell it for me and sometimes they lose money on those cars but it's worth it to them to still be selected for the super highend Stu it's interesting a buddy just bought the Roma and he said it was basically a brand new car that the guy bought yep just to sell it back like as soon as the lockup was up but it was like a brand new car almost no miles on the guy just didn't drive it but R had to buy the car yeah and so then you got to wonder well how many of these cars are is there even demand for like real Demand right because lot of the people who are buying them are just fake people who just want to get the highend stuff but not most of them like most Ras are being sold to end users but certainly some of them are being sold to guys who are playing the game and those guys make money playing the game it takes a while why doesn't Ferrari just increase the price to be able to like find some sort of market equilibrium I I my I've made this point for years and I totally agree but I think the I think the answer is they already make great money on those super crazy cars and they want that carrot for the people to buy the other stuff because right it boosts the sales of the the so they can sell the RAS and they can sell the the Lesser stuff more of them if they know that those guys know that they're going to make a million bucks on this superar every 10 years or something and so like if Ferrari tried to start making the money on those cars themselves the people would be like screw you I'm losing money on Roma and I'm losing money on the Supercar I'm not I don't want to play the game anymore and they can't do that although you know what while 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that's rm.com with a link Down Below in the description to get started today Cards issued by Sutton Bank member FDIC terms and conditions apply thank you to ramp for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast what do you think are some of the best cars to own for the average person out there um honestly I think that your model Y is a really really excellent allaround car just don't pay the amount I paid for it if Jack buys it just do the opposite yeah unse Jack sell it to me um those model wise are are like excellent allaround cars and which is proven by the fact that they're everywhere they they're they fit everybody like you got a family model y you got you got just you model y a dog you got you're a couple like it does a lot of stuff and on that same level like the rav 4S and the cx-5's the gasoline kind of versions of that they're a little bit more down Market but cars like that I recommend these people ask me every day like my my friends or people from my past what should I get this is my budget you know and the answer it's always like get a CRV get a red fork get a model y like just just like get I never try to push people into weird all those cars are tremendously competent when I was a kid there were some trash cars and there were some good cars and now basically all the cars are good and so people be like I'm deciding between a CRV a Rav 4 and a CX5 and I'm like which one which one which is salesman is nicer which one like which color do you like better like those cars are all very competent but there're they're all pretty similar even for a normal person but the good news is they're all pretty good what car do you think has the least amount of Maintenance so someone that wants to just buy a car and never have to like do anything to it aside from like Electric obviously I would say electric vehicles except that some don't like some EVS I mean you hear about problems Tesla has you hear about problems that R has an EV should be the answer but I don't think that all EVS necessarily are being produced right not all EVS are with the same like level of production care that maybe some long tested gas cars are but otherwise the answer is I mean get a cheap Japanese the answer is still Corolla hybrid Prius cars like that those are the cars you can own you won't lose much of depreciation you won't lose much on fuel cost I often think about this if was just somebody who didn't care about cars and what a great burden that would be lifted off of me like I drive around and I'm like I see Priuses and I'm like I wish I could just have that you couldn't be happy with the new Prius I like the oh it's cool as hell but like I can't drive I got I got to drive special car I can't dri a Prius like but it would be so freeing to just have a Prius and like get 55 miles per Gall and it's a pretty nice looking car and it's actually fairly quick and it's got good Tech and just sit in there and listen to my Spotify driving around a PRI that would be a dream and then you sell it 10 years later and you lose like four grand what's holding you back from that I just I'd like to drive special Cars Plus I the Sequoia I need to off-road so previous say Offroad that's a real thing and um my Mercedes station wagon Mercedes station you got have a Mercedes station wag people don't Mercedes station waget out there in the world now one thing I've always been curious about why aren't they making more EV convertibles why is this not as common I think you know it's funny you say that cuz we just had an Cong cyberster which is not sold here in the United States uh but it was excellent I think that the general thinking is enthusiasts are not EV buyers and so if you're going to go to the trouble of developing an EV which is already especially in the United States kind of a niche product you want it to hit the broadest segment of the niche that you can which is why model y Mach e all the new EVS that come out are compact midsize crossovers because that's what people are buying um there's not a lot of gas powered convertibles anymore to be honest there's probably only seven or eight why is that convertibles are over people don't want it really I there was a time when you could get convertibles of like like the Chevy Cavalier had a convertible like Toyota Camry had a convertible it's it's it's over people want SUVs they just want SUVs that's that's that's the hot car of this era of dis generation I thought everyone liked convertibles maybe that's like the 90s like wind in your hair and the I think fre I don't know I totally I totally agree but the and I wish I could get my 4 GTS and I can oh the what is it the GTX but even then like I wish they had done a factory you know I wish there had been a thousand of them then you could go go get one um but it's just over can SUVs SUVs have won they they they beat everybody they beat out fny I'm not a fan of SUVs what are you driving day today a Tesla Model 3 you don't want a model y like him he's sitting up higher than you he's got your car but he's sitting up he's like this it's also the safest car safest car better range no I just had my car I'm I'm so just like I don't like the payments I don't like the idea he's ready to sell his car he just wants to sell it and like you know make a little bit of a profit even though he bought it six years ago that's the model kind of the perfect car it's like the Prius of I mean it's like the perfect car for I I released a video about the new model 3 which just came out the updated one I I titled it and talked heavily about in the video the model 3 is the best automotive Appliance and people are so angry but that's what it is and it's great at that like it is fantastic it drives for you it it it it doesn't cost much to own it's just a simple easy but it's not something I think people get passionate about most mostly but people got angry I guess some people are passionate about it that's not how I for me I just need a to be for a while I was driving a 2006 Volvo that I that I paid $1,000 for and that was my driver for the first like two years in Vegas just a to be just something simple cheap model 3 is great at that Prius is great at that Etc and that's what those cars are that's what they do they do great I mean there's those companies that do Vegas to LA and they all have it's it's super simple to own they do huge miles they don't have huge fuel bills the model X's can get a lot of people in them so is there any other car out there that's losing a ton of value right now I mean EVS are certainly the the top of the peak when I think about cars that are losing a lot of value any big luxury cars always are losing a lot of value Mercedes S classes and BMW 7 Series and cars like that those are just always kind of deeply deeply depreciating but people go in knowing that yeah what about the Cyber truck I saw you sold the gold one recently yeah for like 104 or something like that cyber trucks um are definitely losing from where they were but the demand is the sales are actually more robust than I expected considering they don't seem to be hard to come by new I expected resale actually to drop further than it has um already I I thought they'd be a 60 70 by now but they're not um but they're dropping for sure yeah if you want to buy something like the Mercedes S-Class or something like that like a super nice Bentley how many years like when is the perfect time to buy it where you get the maximum amount ofation but you still get like a nice new luxury car that's a great question I think about this all the time because usually by the time it's gotten down to a price point where I would want to buy it then reliability starts to become an issue right like like Bentley's you want everybody wants a Bentley that car is so cool right yeah well you're not spending 400 I mean you lose 200 Grand in an afternoon on that car right so then you think okay well I'll get a 5-year-old or a seven-year-old one well seven-year-old Bentley's out of warranty there's a lot of components in that car they're expensive components then that's a dice roll so it's like I don't know I I there's there's a there is a a right period in there but it's probably different for each car and Depends a little on the manufacturer's certified pre-owned warranty structure and and your risk tolerance mhm why are these cars so difficult to both maintain and fix like you would think that if you're spending a house on a car that it should be bulletproof have issues totally and and and and people who aren't in the market for cars like this always tell me that like a Rolls-Royce col is $600,000 but it but it breaks all the time it costs a lot to fix that doesn't make sense but you got to understand that ultimately reliability is not a major um factor of for decision making for a person who's buying this car they will own this car for the the original owner is the only person Bentley really cares about right they're going to own the car three or four years um they'll leas it or own the car for three or four years and they will have the experience they want which is a fast powerful car with great technology and unbelievable you know auta lighting throughout the car and all this beautiful stuff well the third owner buys a car it's 12 years old and those things that made it so appealing when it was new are now a liability it's fast while the powertrain is needlessly complicated and expensive to work on and and in some cases bespoke right the the technology which was so cool 10 years ago now has aged and the screen doesn't work anymore right the the the cool lighting and all this other stuff well you know those things start to break and they're very expensive to fix and in a lot of cases the parts aren't available anymore and that is that's kind of what happens but Bentley doesn't care by then the car is yeah out of their hand do you think technology is going to make it more difficult to resell cars in the future because it gets dated it's like telling someone to go and buy an original iphone these days it's just it just functionally wouldn't work anymore without just replacing everything yeah I mean that's a good question they're doing all these overthe a updates you know one of the cool things about Tesla is the car is pretty simple and so everything that needs to be updated is kind of comes through the screen right I mean there's Hardware too but I actually think that potentially the opposite could happen as opposed to you get into an old '90s car and there's just buttons everywhere and it's Stu stuff that doesn't work or you don't care about modern cars these over-the updates May kind of save the car from going down that road entirely um but there will be some technology that these like your model 3 doesn't have and can't right um that wasn't just wasn't built with and So eventually you'll have to upgrade but that's been the story of the car for 100 years you know is there any reason why they don't sell like newer Miatas or newer exciting cars manually uh with manual transmission I feel like there's such a demand for manual cars right now and they sometimes will sell for a lot more than the automatic cars like the older cars why don't they make any newer cars manual even like super cars I feel like they just have paddles I think about it all the time you can still get a Miata with manual transmission believe it or not a brand new one um but it's a great question in a lot of ways in part because the Ferraris on the used market and Porsches on the used Market will sell for two three four times with a manual transmission what an automatic one will and I have trouble understanding why especially Ferrari and Lamborghini Ferrari is a public company why don't they go out and try to maximize what is obviously a market I mean the you have people paying $300,000 for 20-y old Ferraris where the manual version is $300,000 the automatic is $100,000 there's clearly a huge demand why don't they just go and make new I've never understood that I'm thinking of this as a business like make a limited run and charge a million bucks people will pay it Porsche has proven that because Porsche does still make limited run manual cars and they cost a fortune they sell for crazy money and Ferrari and Lamborghini could be doing that too and so could probably some other brands who have abandoned it would it be possible to switch the Transmissions like if you were an an automaker and you're like I'm going to buy up all of these old automatic cars flip it to manual and then make a profit yeah and in fact Aston Martin has literally done that Aston Martin if you have if you have an auto they they have not themselves bought it but if you have an automatic Aston Martin Vanquish an original one from the early 2000s you can send it to them they will convert it to manual for you and then they will ship it back to how much does that cost 50 Grand but there is a cottage industry has come up of of automatic Ferraris and Lamborghinis of and R8s of people converting them to manual transmission it's it's interesting the automakers themselves have not gotten involved they could probably make some real money doing it what's the reason for not doing it that you could argue I guess the answer is that the the automakers say it's it's it's faster with the Dual clutch automatics that they all have now and Ferrari is all about speed Lamborghini is all about speed so we would not want to go backwards in terms of Technology Porsche tried to make the same argument porsa almost killed the manual transmission but it became clear that people were paying up for them and so they they have come out with special cars that still have them that's the automaker's argument the truth is uh it's just it just costs a lot like to develop a transmission that is ultimately by the end of manual transmission production was 10% of cars um but I would argue that you could really pass those costs on to the consumer and in a lot of cases they would pay I don't think they could make a Ferrari could make a general run manual transmission car anymore but a limited to 150 unit manual Ferrari people would lose it people would people would pay whatever they wanted for that and you can't tell me if they charged 2 million bucks and they made two 200 Cars that they couldn't justify the the the development cost of the transmission is not Le more less more than the cost of that they would make from that there's no way what is a feature in just a few or no cars that you think should be in basically every single car I remember back in the day when I was in high school a few of my friends even though it was already pretty old their cars had Ox cords and and and other people were using like the cassette things where you put in or you burn your own CDs and stuff like that and I was thinking to myself why doesn't every single car have an it couldn't be expensive to install something like this or USB ports I remember when those were coming out and like no cars had them it's like such an easy decision that every car should have I think about this a lot because I drive all the cars and it becomes abundantly clear to me when driving all the cars that people who design cars don't and because there are some very clearly obvious things that they should be putting in that other automakers do and they aren't um dash cam is a good example actually um automakers are starting to integrate dash cams just barely like two cars do it Tesla's done has done it for a few years BMW and Mercedes have started to do it no one else is really doing it but there like GM is just just getting there 10 years every car is GNA have a dash every new car is have a dash cam my prediction but like it's like come on let like do this there's a lot of stuff though that I think about and it's there's some little stuff that I think about that I wish other cars would do but another good one is Hyundai's most Hyundai now when you're driving along you put on the turn signal and a camera pops up in the gauge cluster that shows what's in your blind spot and so if you're making a lane change you don't have to do the over the-shoulder you could just look down at your blind spot camera it's a very wide angle it's clearly shows what's there and I don't know why everybody else doesn't have that it's it's brilliant technology there's a lot of stuff like that that I wish I I often think to myself I wish I could have this car with the Fe this feature from this car and this feature from that car do you think maybe the insurance industry is like lobbing against those cameras it's just like crazy because you would think that if they have more accidents they would make more money and they could up your premiums like is there somebody you know the insurance industry seems to make money um no I think that the automakers would put anything in that they possibly could in order to convin people not to buy the other guy's car and so they would they would do it if they could I just think some of them haven't realized that they should those are great answers I want to know what what other like things do you think some cars are missing or cars in general Miss think about this all the time but there's all sorts of just little stuff in some cases um I love the fact that my Toyota when you lock the door the lights stay on and if you press lock a second time the lights turn off so if you want that entry lighting to stay on great but if you want to manually do it a second time and turn off that's brilliant and all Toyotas do that no other cars do there's all sorts of like little features that I see in all sorts of different cars that I just wish you could aggregate some cars now have rearview mirrors that are a camera and so you're driving along and you you want to look in your rearview mirror well you don't have to look through the people in your back seat which is unsafe you you have a camera mounted on the back of the car that's showing the display is on the rearview mirror that's a great feature but not every automaker has adopted it I have no idea why um a lot of them are starting to but it's like there's all sorts of things that I just think to myself I I wish this car had this and and I wish I could pick and choose the features from all the cars I think anything that prevents people from getting locked out of their cars is also very very easy and most cars should do I remember my friend growing up had one of those cars with the keypads and I thought that was genius I loved it Ford and Nissan had those keypads Ford still does and Lincoln um nobody else really does it and I don't get why I love there are some automakers one cool feature that some automakers are doing is an activity key so like you have your key fob but like if you're going to swim it'll get wet and destroyed and they it's like a it's like a wristband that you can wear that's waterproof or like if you're on the basketball court you can have your wristband on and that's your key so you can lock your keys in the car with your activity key and then go and do the sport or whatever which is in the same thing great idea why doesn't everybody do it I don't know only like three of them have figured out that people want that and maybe in some cases people don't want some of these features but I I want them it would be interesting to have facial recognition like your Genesis gv60 has are you serious you set it up you walk up to the door you look at the you look at the car and then it unlocks and you can get inside they should have that to drive too to drive to take the car I think it also is to drive you can be complet so that means you don't even need a like Tesla you need the phone some car most cars you need a key fob right Tesla's and some of the other new ones you need a phone that car you need your face and you're that's incredible I would also love it if um it's able to tell like blood alcohol yeah and so no one could drive their car if they're under the influence that that's another thing future Generations will look back on and be like that was a thing you could do like there will be some I don't know if you've ever seen the ignition interlocks that people who have multiple DUIs have to have blow into it it's actually pretty simple technology like they just get in the car they blow it says and then they drive off like it actually only takes a few seconds not that I'm advocating everybody should have to do that but like there must be some if there was some real push for it there must be some way that you could kind of now you have your passenger do it or whatever that's the problem not if there are cameras inside like it would be able tell with AI just like no you have to do this not your passenger and then you start thinking about well do you really need to go over 100 miles an hour right like should cars be limited to a more rational speed because a lot of times speed is a huge factor in accidents and you can have some of these convers that's interesting do you ever think we're going to get to a point where the government can control what you do with your car and how fast you drive it and which locations like your car automatically won't go over 50 in this location this day when there's people around the offense I mean that maybe um you know the the threat of enforcement is much more significant in some other countries that therefore does have that effect I mean in Switzerland there's cameras everywhere if you go two miles over the speed limit in Switzerland you get a ticket if you go 50 miles hour the speed limit you get arrested like they're militant now it can't stop you in the moment but it has that effect like you drive around in Switzerland and people go the speed limit and swis drive the nicest cars in the world and they all go like exactly Japan to it's exactly the speed limit or one under right everybody's terrified in those places um so there they can affect it in that way but do we get to that point I don't know maybe I have a suspicion not in our lifetimes and certainly not in the US which has been slow to even adopt speeding cameras speeding cameras in the US have a huge push back in Europe and a lot of European countries not all but in a lot of European countries they have done it and they have just been like it's for safety screw you we don't care what your what your response is and they've just kind of heavy-handedly put them in a lot a lot of countries what I think is going to happen is that you could uh share your information with insurance companies and they'll monitor exactly how fast you go and then adjust your premium based on that yeah I mean that could Tesla did that with their insurance right and as the cars get more connected you could see that happening more and more likely and I would bet that they could adjust your premiums in real time where you could go on the app just like with Tesla and say oh my premium went up because I sped or because I'm driving in these hours a huge incentive to slow down who's Cutting Edge these days in terms of advancing technology you know it's that's an interesting question it's not who you think like people think Tesla I think because Tesla has a reputation for being Advanced but like Tesla's missing some stuff I get in Tesla's I'm incredibly annoyed they still don't have a top down camera which I think is wild um they got a lot of good stuff but the truth is all everybody wants now is Apple carplay that's what everybody just wants that it's just simple it's easy it's or Android auto it's like easy to use Easy to figure out and so that's kind of like where this whole industry is gone there's only a few automakers who are fighting back against it which is Tesla rivan and um General Motors believe it or not but General Motors has completely integrated with Google and so they have Google Assistant Google Maps all over their cars which has its own great benefits with your smartphone right you can like have direct if you sign in you can have like previous history and all sorts of other stuff um I don't know it's it's cutting edges is an interesting thing it's starting to kind of become less relevant yeah do you see any features though that could be like really futuristic like I remember when heads up display was like that was the coolest thing yeah I mean self-driving is the obvious one okay and and people want it and some automakers are doing a really great job of it Tesla's one of them but other automakers have systems that are at least as good and then of course General Motors has super Crews which is quite impressive um if you're if you want to look forward which not everyone does my view on super cruise and those systems is like if I wanted to look forward I would just drive the damn car the whole point of these systems is I want to look I want to text you know am I wrong like that's what we really want to do we really want to just scroll Instagram while we drive that's what we want to do but we're not there yet I remember back in the day when Tesla self-driving first came out this is 2019 is I started using it and you could just put a weight on the steering wheel and it just was uninterrupted for y like 20 30 minutes and now it's so sensitive you look in the back seat for one second grab something it's like this is the drawback of Tesla's system actually there are some systems that are not like this just FYI there are some systems where the only check on you is capacitor of touch on the steering wheel and so then it's not looking at your eyes and so as long as you have skin on the steering wheel uh it is cool with driving skin skin doesn't have to or skin like uh doesn't have to be your hand it could be someone else's skin it could skin your there are people just saying in theory there are people I've certainly never done this uh who adjust the steering wheel to touch their knee and then you don't really have to have hand your hands can be elsewhere you know what I'm saying how can it detect skin from other you know material capacitive touch right so like just like your iPhone screen detects skin versus if you put that water bottle would so like a lot that's that's a lot of Tesla doesn't do it I don't know why Tesla still is weight based or eye based but most of the other brands have capacitive touch for steering and so you just need to have a hand or some other body part on the steering wheel and it will it will drive and in definitely so like as long as as long as you have the steering wheel down and touching your knee you're good what cars a lot mercedesbenz and Toyota and I know that because I own a Mercedes Benz or a Toyota chist that's why you don't own a Tesla that's why you have those well I'll tell you driving that Toyota across the country with that feature is really beneficial um Chrysler is the most permissive really you could do whatever you want in the Jeep Grand chair go figure pretty good setup that's funny but more and more of them are moving to an eye based thing which kills the fun but probably makes people more safe it's probably because Tesla has more eyes on them from a regulator stand and they have to be like on it versus chry truthfully the ey based monitoring is the future that's what's going to happen it's more and more people automakers are putting it in their cars there is a short period here where the skin thing is acceptable so like maybe cars in 50 years the skin cars will still be valuable cars it's the one car you don't have to look at the road do you think that Robo taxis could ever be a thing at some point yeah but you know who when it seems so far like I'm using the Tesla full self-driving and it's still so buggy and it's just I'm on edge plus you live in Vegas like ultimately what happens in Minneapolis right when it snows this is what I think about like I was self-driving they got 90% of the way there in a couple years yeah and that last 10% is hard right you can anybody can make a self-driving car drive down a road stop at a stop light turn on a simple nice day wide Road well paved but like that's that's not when I want the car to drive right you the car to drive when it's foggy and icy and you're terrified and you don't you don't trust yourself you want the car to be better than you truthfully right now all the cars are worse than you right that that may not be statistically true but in those Edge case scenarios you'd rather be driving right if it's icy and foggy you'd rather have the wheel than than Tesla full self- drive and that's the problem and it seems to be one that they're having trouble surpassing yeah it could be of just a false self-confidence that I feel safer because I'm in control of those data seems to show does show but but I think a lot of the data comes from sunny days a lot of those systems straight up turn off in snow in heavy rain in or when you're driving into the sunset when the sun is shining and it just shuts down you can't see and it's like it can't do it either yeah what do you mean I you can't it's wild to imagine but that is true sometimes yeah so for people who want to make money on cars what are you seeing these days for investment grade vehicles I think the only way right now to truly make money on a lot of these cars is to hold I think that the days of flipping a year later is not realistic I think there are cars that are investment grade that are going to go up that are that seem cheap now um 550 Marinella which we were talking about before that's one of them any gated manual transmission Ferraris not any but some gated manual transmission Ferraris Lambos like I said before I really think have have a long ways to go um but I also think nothing's going to happen soon and I still have trouble believing that cars will be a good investment relative to other stuff I told you that owning a 4 GT is like owning bonds I feel that way the GT has continues to go up a little it it never goes down it's pretty reliable to own um but like you compare it against the S&P is up 60% last two years GT ain't doing that and even if it was you got to service it you got to pay insurance you just store it somewhere um you know so there are ways to make money in these cars now I will say I have all the service history for my crer GT and I looked it up this from the second owner until when I bought it if he had held it that long uh it did beat the S&P including all maintenance all repairs and even if you add it in fuel and insurance what was the original MSRP of that car 440 and they're now average now amount of million million three million5 something like that yeah but it's hard to know yeah it's hard to know but that's also buying kind of at the peak of the S&P before the Great Recession where it went down and the car outpaced right afterwards so there's like a few variables I think the second owner that car bought it in 09 so some of that decline I don't think the first owner would have beaten the S&P well maybe maybe because of the decline after that but regard the point remains like there there are the possibilities exist but like they exist in hindsight it's just like by Nvidia like they exist primarily exist in hindsight right like who knew that that car would take off and some of the other ones wouldn't remember that car when it came out was priced the same as the McLaren SLR and the Ferrari Enzo well the Enzo took off to slrs are cheaper than they were in ' 05 and how would you how would you know it's it's it's difficult to know what was going to happen why is the SLR not gone up in value they made a ton of them they're automatic transmissions and they have some drawbacks for example the breakes to replace breakes it's $10,000 a corner so four breaks is $40,000 now on a cage gut that costs a million bucks you can kind of justify that it's harder on a car that costs 250 and that there's 3500 of that's kind of the problem with that plus it's automatic I mean people don't want automatics then you know on an investment grade collectible car the manual transmission has turned out to be one of the big distinguishing points although really quick before we go into that you have to ask yourself the question what makes a leader stand out because it's not just about taking charge but about setting new standards and embracing bold moves that's why if you lead by example and live with passion then our sponsor the Range Rover Sport is made for you every model of the Range Rover Sport offers a unique blend of dynamic sophistication and sporting luxury it's where refined Elegance meets visceral power with focused on-road performance and world-renowned off-road capability this vehicle Rises to every occasion experience the Adaptive off-road cruise control that adjusts your terrain and dynamic air suspension for Superior agility and Control Plus adaptive Dynamics ensures smooth composed handling by minimizing unwanted body movements for those who Elevate their desires and lead by example the Range Rover is much more than just a vehicle it's a statement discovered today at landroverusa.com once again that is landroverusa.com with a link Down Below in the description thank you so much to Range Rover Sport for sponsoring this episode and now back to the podcast so what cars today do you think would make a good Bond strategy I still think for I still need for GT I think those for GTs are going to continue to rise they're still cool people still seem to be interested in them I think that one of the one of the things that makes that car particular appealing as a bond strategy is that it's not expensive to own yeah that's not true of almost every other car that will probably increase in value Kos will probably outperform the 4D GT but it ain't cheap yeah I yeah I did a full service on my car and I think it came to about ,000 from the Ford dealership and they replaced the uh the struts in the that that hold up the engine bay in the back the um K GT is in service right now it's 20 grand for like a pretty minor service like th cars cars at that level are expensive and that's the problem so some of those cars I think will gain in value but the thing that makes the 4GT so desirable in that world is just how a o affordable it is to own while it's also slightly climbing and what I find interesting and this is this is something uh that you should get into Jack is these no stripe for GTS these cars used to be the least desirable because everyone wanted the stripe on the car and so few people ordered the car without stripes and now the without stripes cars are so rare that they're selling Beyond uh what like the Heritage model is selling why do you think I should get got into it 10 years ago you you want the market to Plum it or something is that you want to buy one in about two years no stri is that what your plan is I have been surprised the thing about the 4D GT that's interesting especially is that the cars are all the same and so the distinguishing factor is a few little things that wouldn't matter to 98% of people people are astonished when I tell them blue ones are worth a lot more than white ones what do you mean they're the same well they made a lot less blue ones and the market for some reason values that weird thing I actually prefer white uh and I don't I've decided that I don't really like Heritage I think Heritage is kind of ugly really you drive around and it looks like a race car it's got all these orange things all be weird you drive that thing people be like that guy is weird I think it's but imag driving that around people be like the average person it doesn't look as cool as like the other super cars yeah I to the average person but and then there's that component too people think it's a Ford people ask me if it's a Mustang I if you get that it's like well kinda I don't want to have a it depends how much I want to talk to them in that moment sure but nonetheless the cars are generally desirable you know I a blue one with my mile sold recently for like $350,000 which I was I have 43,000 miles on my car I was absolutely a what did you buy yours for 225 in 18 and I've put 13,000 miles on it so I dve it a lot drove to Palm Springs last week and and back and you know it hasn't cost much to own what about for the average person who's not spending 3 400,000 on a car what do you think is the best investment grade vehicle that they could drive and at least not lose money on interesting question I'd have to think about it um I'm going to say Honda S2000 that's mine C if you're talking about specifically not losing money yeah there's a lot of good stuff S2000 is a great example and that's another car that is pretty affordable to own um Porsches lower level Porsches came in in boxer don't really depreciate all that heavily especially if you buy them pretty depreciated and honestly they're pretty reliable people think German and they get worried but Porsches are pretty reliable even lower level 911s 996s and 997s early 2000s um there's a lot of cars like that that that you can that you can do kind of generally okay with even Corvettes C7 Corvettes you know like 2010 2012 era Corvettes um are kind of hitting bottoms of depreciation curves and are just not expensive to own and drive and operate um I would probably pursue things like that where enthusiasts get into trouble is the BMW M3s the cars that are wonderful and fantastic but problematic you have to be a real Enthusiast who's willing to like spend money to have that experience and those cars can be Troublesome what do you think about the 2000's manual gardos yeah do you think because because they're they're not that expensive they're not they're not as expensive as they deserve to be after having all of these you know car YouTubers on the podcast for long I've always liked cars and I always thought the gy was cool cuz that was kind of as I was growing up you'd see that car it was the most common Lamborghini that you see oh a super car I always like the car and it's kind of convinced me to like look into the market a little bit and it seems reasonable and I heard that they're also in terms of Maintenance not that bad so that that I find that car to be an absolute bargain relative to what it is it's a manual V10 I mean they're not that's a really that's a CR te that's a really special car um there's some there are some things I think that have held it back it's always going to be the the Lesser Lambo right the mercy Lago was always there and so you're always people have a belief that the very earliest gyos with the 5 L V10 are not as reliable and that they later upgraded to a bigger slightly bigger motor and those are more reliable cars I don't know if that's true but that's the belief the especially the 04 cars which the first year are like less reliable um but I think those cars are cool as hell I mean you that's 90 grand you drive around a stick shift it's a Lambo it looks cool most regular people can't tell the difference between that and a merci Lago which cost two three times as much I think those cars are undervalued but I'm not entirely convinced that they will gain that much because the market has had a long time to appreciate those cars and it never really has in a in a weird way but it seems hard to imagine losing a ton of money on that considering like how can they really sell much more than absolutely they can't go lower your only loss would be in maintenance and repairs yeah which may be significant but you know probably still less than the depreciation on your Tesla yeah actually your Tesla your Tesla costs more money than a Lamborghini I do think about that a lot when it comes to you know my 4GT people like I can't afford a 4 GT it's like well I'm up 100 gz you can't afford not to get a 4 GT like when you really I mean it's insane cuz the price of Entry is still high but like a for people think I'm nuts for driving on a 4 GT they got a new Explorer and it's like that car is lose 25 Grand in like two years I I don't do that on my cars I buy all my daily driver cars used like I don't I can't justify losing new car money on that stuff yeah that's always been my mindset too is to buy a car that you're not going to lose value on like my uh Lotus Elise didn't lose anything Lotus exee didn't lose anything the 4 GT is up yeah uh I I I and and yet you've got this model 3 like and then the model 3 is lost daily it's a daily that like you just need a point A to point B car and that's something that you can care less about the value loss because your cost basis is lower I think about this all the time I got a courage you to cost a million dollars but I like wouldn't buy a new E-class station wagon Mercedes station wagon I called I found a used one that matched my taste at a dealership in Oklahoma and had it shipped to her to save however much money off it I just can't imag the depreciation I just can't it mentally it's just not speaking of the model 3 I think a while ago I added up all the money that I've made from ad Revenue off my Tesla videos because one video got like 8 million views another video got like 3.6 million views there's another one with over a million views I believe all of it together was like $130,000 yeah for the car this is how James just stradman justifies his uh and and hooie and all the other guys you went and saw Tavaris right this is how they justify their their purchases some s it doesn't make sense though it makes sense for you and for others in some way some limited ways I worry about Freddy do you worry about Freddy every now and then before I go to bed I I think I wonder how he's doing that P1 how much does that cost but you know what I mean that has made I I w't say it's made his channel but like over the last year it's constantly number one trending I worry about all the other C YouTubers though nonetheless I worry about all of them they all make horrible decisions you need to go visit all of them and teach them how to do things correctly but you know what Ed Bolan I have to say is so meticulous about it that's better huie genuinely loves everything he's doing and would be doing it regardless so like he's the exception he's making money right he calls me in the spring every year and he's like the taxes are going to be due next month I got to sell some cars like that's the level he's operating at this happens every year I'm not screaming with you that's the he's operating yet but he's a different mindset I I don't think he cares for him I don't I don't think it's about money at all I think he genuinely like when he bought the Fisker Karma I felt like that was just a moment where it's like he's going to lose a ton of money on and watch his videos and worry about him and that's true of all of them but yeah to varish I think the P1 is he's he's spending so much money on it but he's making it back at least on the videos they do they to his credit they do his channel does great but like yeah and then I just am scared about all who are you most worried about Pro Freddy probably is the number one I'm worried he's got a big overhead he's got like three garages like warehouses I don't understand why really like he's fixing up like 20 cars he also doesn't release content all that often that's the thing that scares me about Freddy he posts like once a month and he's just the audience is obsessed with him like they think I think he's nuts in a great way like I love watching the content but like I it would be nice to get you know more updates and posts and I think that's that makes me scared plus I know that he's got a loan on that P1 and it's significant yeah and so that really scares me I think the views are offsetting it but probably the the one uh person I watch all the time James stradman I watch stradman is guilty love all his I watch all of his videos okay do you agree stradman sidebar here do you agree that it's his house isn't even done like you watch the video where he went through his house so we visited him and we saw his house the gorgeous house but needs the backyard needs the basement basement's like just PL just like just like it's it's a it's a lot of M it's it's it's tough either way because if he finishes it I don't think he's going to get back dollar to dollar what he spends absolutely but if he sells it unfinished it makes the market so much smaller for whoever's willing to buy that house with an unfinished basement to spend more money this is the problem that I think a lot of these people run into is that um they end up buying these these they get a little young people get money and they're like oh I want a I want a palace with a remote you know a lazy river that goes around the whole thing and they do all these things and realize those places are expensive to keep going and often in order to get a place like that you have to buy land so far away from where land is desirable that it makes it hard to justify putting that much money into the land because at the end of the day when you go to sell it the buyer pool is really small I go on Zillow when I see these like 25,000 foot houses in the middle of nowhere it's just like you're never asking $4 million for it $100 a square foot right and it's like you're fire pool is limited and even at 4 million like this this is going to sell for 1.6 in seven years when you come to terms mentally with the fact that it's only wor it was tough with him because I remember talking to him before he was building the house and his mindset at the time was I I I just want like a 20 car garage but I can't just build that because they won't permit it so I have to build the house for resale value so that I have a structure that a family or someone else would want to buy the thinking I thought was correct but it's just Sall little I have this severe belief maybe militant that you you should live somewhere where your land is more valuable than the improvements you make to it like it's a very California thing to say yeah it is or or dense area thing to say right like that's also true in nice neighborhoods in a lot of like I only ever buy old homes that are that are you know in kind of historic type neighborhoods that are very um established long term and I worry about the Deep Suburban living and massive house that is unsellable in the future kind of situation I'm going to ask you a question do you think he should sell the kic absolutely I would have sold that kic I'm not a kic fan I don't I don't find them that cool I don't find that interesting it's his dream car he although we are about the same age he has a different generation than me like he's into the kic Pagani stuff and I'm into the Kos 4 GT stuff like the manual older and now he's a count also and he had a 4D GT but he's clearly more into the more modern kind of crazy stuff um I don't care about KX Sig like and by the way everyone I know who has a k say has problems everyone I know who what are the problems the problems are that the car is handbuilt by the company that designs and builds every little part themselves and so stuff breaks and when stuff breaks you can't go to the kic dealer CU there isn't one and even if there was which in some cities there are there's no like Parts Supply like they built all these things themselves so like a little thing breaks and it's like a Ford dealer you go to the Ford dealer they get you a power mirror switch and a conic Sig that's like a bespoke part that they made a limited run of 19 years ago yeah that's hard so who's buying kxix who's buying kxix and why it's crazy I don't understand it I truly don't understand it how is that different from Pagani same kind of thing but I I feel like I I don't hear complaints from Pagani owners p a Powertrain that is forced by Mercedes-Benz right so so at least that component of the car which is a pretty significant component of the car is taken care of right that component of the car is you're going to be able to find parts in fact that engine is still in production um so that's easy and other than that though I would worry about pagan in in a in in all the little intricacies that stuff scares me what if that stuff starts to break I don't know you're not getting that stuff it's true of any Boke car and honestly Ford GT Part Supply 05 4 GTS they don't have a lot of those parts anymore either for you know you know what I'm going on eBay and probably going to reveal a secret of buying Ford GT Parts it's a smart idea the guy I bought mine from he bought seats he bought steering big stuff and he was able to sell it he hoarded he bought it when the car was new when all those parts were were easily available and he sold it 20 years later for like 7x what you know every part was like in high demand I'm talking to this guy on eBay who has every part that he's been hoarding for 20 years he just bought everything and he has duplicates yeah because I needed like a gauge he's like oh yeah I got like three of those which gauge fil my fuel gauge is in right now yeah but right now my with the car is full it's reading uh empty which is mine is always empty but I just top it off anytime I take the car out topped off and I park it um yeah but no I I the answer to who is biting conic SS is people who already have everything else that's he's like oh I got a Bugatti and I got a you know a bunch of Lambos and a bunch of Ferraris and a bunch of Porsches like I want to go to the next level and that's kic say and the cool thing about KX Zig to give them credit and Pagani is that like you can shake the hand of the guy yes you know like and Ferrari is's a company now Bugatti's a company like those guys are dead right Kik said you can literally meet the dude it'd be like meeting Enzo in Period and so there's something special about like joining the Kix and Club I just don't it it doesn't do anything for me what's going on with people leasing these cars these days is like a lease to own yeah because I guess if you're doing it for your channel and you own the biz you can write off a significant amount of it something and I I got I realized you could do this too late I never once did it and now I don't own the biz anymore which is unfortunate so but it's a it's a big thing that I think all these guys are doing and everybody's like well you you don't own the car then well the leas is aren't set up people think of it like a traditional car lease it's not really like that like at the end you have this you you a lot of it has gone into Equity the car is not depreciating really um you can you could reup the lease people lease these cars sometimes two or three or four times wow yeah yeah but the drawback is these massive payments so stradman is making like $20,000 payments or whatever it is on this Con 30 that's not out of the norm by the way in that segment of the market a lot of guys do that yeah oh Steve Hamilton his payments were just through the roof but for him he was like you know I finance these at low interest rates yeah I'm not doing that anymore but on all the ones I got like three years ago it makes sense to have these payments at 3% yeah even though I me think about what the cash right he would have lost out if he had put all that cash on those cards at the time probably so it was the right call it's just it's an astronomical number to see right in your bank account coming out every month right I'm sure of the three I think he said his payment was like 33,000 a month I'm sure of that probably 31 goes towards Equity prob guess and then his balloon payment at the very end am right like at the end of the day it's going towards the car that he owns which is fine but like damn yeah what are you noticing these days for cars and bids buyers uh in terms of financing a lot of our buyers are cash um and I think that is especially more true now that interest rates have gone up I know I have just I financing is just I'm not gonna Finance it seven car 7% or 8% or 9% that's that's just not I can't justify that mentally um we we are surprised at how many of our buyers are cash but it makes sense when you consider these are third cars these are Enthusiast cars they've always wanted whatever um we offer a financing through light stream on our site uh and people do it but and and and you know sellers have financing buyers have financing it happens but I think that um people are trying to avoid it if they can how can the average person buy a super car or their dream car for that matter where would you recommend that they start looking how can they know that they're not getting completely ripped off what what would your just general advice be for them um forums are still unbelievably helpful which is insane because like they were helpful in 1999 you know like but car forums are like Ferrari chat and all the the 4 GT Forum that they're all still shockingly helpful you can get an enormous amount of information with regards to Common problem areas what to look at which shops in your era area are shyers which ones are great um you can get a lot of really good info on the forums I have learned basically everything I needed to learn learn about the cars that I've bought from car forums and talk to owners try to drive one if you can from an owner try to turo one a lot of these cars are available on turo and you can rent one and see if you fit see if it fits in your driveways you know Etc all that stuff um and you know I always tell people the number one thing I always tell people is you're buying the seller so like you're not don't even think about you're buying the car read the seller if if the seller uses the the word should of and he spells it should space o f of guy's not changing his oil that guy is not changing that guy is that guy has 9-year-old mismatch tires like I spend an enormous amount of time when I'm buying a car just trying to like read the seller Google everything about the seller try to learn everything I possibly can and see if they I the kach for example I bought it from a deadbeat I knew it going in I he was misrepresenting the car lying about the condition but I knew it and I knew it was going to be hard to find another one like I wanted and so I went in knowing I would have to spend a lot of money to get it nice no it needs nothing well he's an idiot and he did write of and that was that was that was uh red flag number one but I knew it and it was fine and I did put the money in um but if you want a nice car I you read the seller and really try to learn as much as you can about the car before you go and do it and try to get a pre- purchase inspection from a reputable shop although I I generally find that pre- purchase inspections are so hit or miss that I don't find it as worth I'm a guy with a lot of money but I don't find it as worth it as as some people say I always thought that was the go-to to get it PR just I've had too many friends get a pre purchase inspection and then get burned um or not get one and then the car is perfect like a lot more of it to me is like look at in in the on our site look at every picture everyone look at look for Clues look for clues in the service history watch the driving video 14 times you know make make sure it's shifting right make sure it sound like I think that stuff is generally better than some mechanic who's not familiar with the car trying to diagnose it in that moment in time who knows if XYZ part that can't even be be seen is on its way out you know and I also have a rule that you just have to assume you're going to put money into a car and you buy it people are always so mad when they buy a car and it's not perfect it's like this is a used car driven by Enthusiast it's gonna have needs I always budget in my mind a 10% on top of the car to to make it right and I I generally feel if you can't afford that 10% on top you should probably focus on a less expensive for me I find the comments actually the most helpful are so uh you know in tune with with certain cars that I've seen like seller and picture 97 the cap you used isn't the original cap and was a replacement did you lose the original sell ha on our site sellers hate this but it's but number one it's really useful for buyers yeah and number two if you are representing a good car and representing it well as a seller it can benefit you like if you can push off the the crazy commenters and be like nope that actually is the right cap and here's we tried three different ones and here you can come in look at and and I always tell people by the seller well the seller can in that situation rise up and actually look like a real expert who's representing car really well and I've seen sellers who hate those commenters and they're terrible turn it around and actually make it clear that the seller really is an authority and then instead of complaining I always tell sellers try to answer his question really thoroughly using good grammar and prove to people that you you your car is good interesting and it works this might be controversial for something like a Kos what are your thoughts about buying a replica like a Diablo you know a lot of the replicas are just not they just weren't done well and and nobody's doing the replicas anymore and so very few have really survived I think that um there are some very rare nice replicas that are cool um but you know the the real thing is just the real thing if you can if you can afford it it's worth doing if you can't the kind of people who care can often tell like I when I see a k rep I just know in two seconds like what's the dead giveaway it's usually proportions because it's based on a non and they had to fit the body of a count the fake body they created of aach onto the chassis of a car that is longer or shorter or and if you spend enough time looking at the car you could just tell instantly like oh that that panel is wrong that whatever what about if they stretch the chassis though there aren't there aren't replicas and actually we had one on cars and bids there are replicas where they just build a tube frame like from ground up where they there isn't even a chassis they just go they just fabricate the whole thing and I'll be honest we had we had this this red repli that car may have fooled me the the the giveaway was it didn't have a gated manual it still had the shift lever from whatever car they got the motor from because they those things had to marry but like everything else was that the only was that the only giveaway cuz I saw the the rear end and I was like trying to compare it with the real thing and like I the problem is to make a replica that nice you got to really spend so so they had a Lambo steering wheel they had a Lambo seats they had Lambo Wheels getting wheels for a kage probably 25 Grand like to do it to do it right it's it's so hard that it's not worth like by the time you're done you're probably in the car almost as much as a real one would be and then it'll never sell for obviously never sell for as much as a real one but that car was pretty for me it would be like I would love a count or a Diablo but I think I would be so worried driving the car around it's not easy to drive I'd be terrified of of Maintenance so it just seems like a not that you should get AA get AA no I'm good everybody's terrified of maintenance if the car is done right there's this guy in Ohio who's a wizard his name is George Evans and he is like the guy for Countach Diablo and I sent the car there and I spent 50 Grand with him and my car starts every single time and my car drives well and I told him I was when the car came back I was like I'm really impressed with the work you did and he goes honestly I go toe-to-toe with the factory like I I you compare my work to the Factory's work from the period it's going to look as good are you ever nervous about driving that car I'm nervous about driving the CR GT because of the value the Countach doesn't scare me do you mean because of the value or because of the I might break down value uh no door ding or someone merging into you or I the mistake I made with my Creer GT and the mistake I was thrilled not to make with the kunos was I bought a mild car that actually has some issu like some some some cosmetic issues if you look closely even from here you well maybe not because the Bentley's in the way but I scraped the front bumper the the the panels were painted at various different times um I really wanted a car I could use specifically for that reason and so no I don't get worried about that stuff CU it's already kind of rough like the car should be repaying it if you want if you wanted a concur's perfect car you'd repaint it um but I'd rather just have a driver and so I don't worry about that I nonetheless I do take the precautions I I I clear film the windshield on all my cars okay because a new 4 GT win Kosh windshield is not really you can't really get one anymore so that kind of I I try to be little careful okay and what about the Carrera GT do you not park it places for fear out of like carero GT is the greatest car ever built however um I just wish it wasn't so expensive I wish I could use it more and I use it a lot I've I've had the car two years and I've driven it 4,000 miles in those two years which is a lot considering I'm not here in the summer right so I drive the car only nine months a year um but I am terrified parking it yeah I'm terrified putting it anywhere where um which sucks what's the longest you've ever had to hunt for a spot I just don't really take it places where I have to paring anymore which is so sad yeah it's probably you take it out and then you pull it right back in yeah and I do big drives like that like I got no qualms about doing 200 miles in a day in it like but I I I I will I've got to go to this place I'll take the courage tet look at the key think do I really want to the other thing is like I take it out to dinner right well then you got to sit at dinner worried the whole time I would rather just drive a BS car and not have to think about it and so I always do my wife has only ridden in the K T once and the Kos once did she like it yeah but like it's just not the kind of car I take out you know what I mean like and I wish that wasn't true I wish that car cost 400 Grand and I could just be like like the fort I drove the fort on a dirt road the other like I consider that my beater super car like I just abuse that car partially because I know it's tough and it can take it um but also because cour is just it's not even a Kut is not even a fragile car but if something happened and imagine if you're someone who hits one like you're in personal bankruptcy at that point I think because your insurance maximums ain't covering that right that's a tough situation for everybody how so what's Insurance look like for you on a car like that are you I I take it you're insured on all that sort of stuff but yeah but it's expensive you know to insure those cars I think kgt cost 15 grand a year to insure wow yeah it's a lot forgt is nothing you know yeah I pay like 150 a month something like or maybe less I think it was like $110 a month K is expensive it's a really valuable car wow sad What's the total overhead of owning these six cars you know it depends on the year because last year i' spent had a $50,000 Co service the year before that I had a $50,000 CR service um it depends on the year but I knew both of those were coming when I bought them and I factored that into my purchase price um and honestly I think especially on the Countach if I were to sell the car today I would get every penny of the 50 Grand back just showing that you did a a big important service at the right guy with the right parts um people are so scared of maintenance on those cars that having that proof is a big deal when you're going to sell it but you know some sometimes I don't know I I haven't done anything in kach s it has to cost me a dollar since the surfice that was a year ago almost exactly so last year zero but the year before 50 so 25 Grand a year does of course it doesn't really work like that but um I I don't know the the fixed costs insurance is obviously the the most expensive the the uh I think all the cars together are probably in the neighborhood of 25 Grand a year or something to Ure maybe 30 grand a year to insure how much value do you think you add to the car because I'd imagine there's a premium for having your car I think that for the cheaper cars when I go to sell them there is that premium I sold my Land Cruiser I sold my Defender those cars are you Land Cruiser 35 Grand car the defender sold for like 90 I think people were like oh it be cool to have one and also it' be cool to have Dougs I think when you get into this realm people don't care about that stuff everybody who at a Countach was somebody everybody who at a kro was somebody people care more about having like the cars well made and I think there's in a in a way some of these cars may even get hurt by the fact that some YouTuber had it they assume if you're a YouTuber you're probably hooning it or doing dumb stuff with the car which is one of the reasons why I'm militant about maintenance repairs making sure everything is beautifully documented because I really maintain these cars the way a true Enthusiast would um but I don't think these cars I I would get a premium I I don't know I I think it would just having the car that you reviewed and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that just say hey would you review my car and then they could turn around and say I seen on Doug for certain when we sell the cars on the site that I reviewed which is on cars and bids when we sell them after I review them they definitely get more money but I think part of that is because just the they went to a wider audience right um but there is some some people find it fun for sure that like they have the car that was in the Doug video I think it' be cool I like this is the Doug car it was on the channel it's definitely cool that may wor some premium and and certainly like I said for the cheaper cars I sell there is some premium but I think the type of people who would buy a qu GT are they're not they're not paying up for me that that's it's a very specialized car and they're fairly available and so you want to find the right one be like the Jerry Seinfeld car those get I I asked Leno the very question you asked me and Leno was like no I don't think my cars have a Leno doesn't sell anything yeah but he's like I don't think my cars have a premium and I'm like I totally Des but Len is the kind of guy who would never say that like he's he doesn't want to think of himself that way he like he wants to think of himself as sort of a Down Home like I I do my own work kind of guy and in a lot of ways he is yeah but it's he's still J Leno and I think that his car all of them it would be able to say this was out of the J Leno collection would be a big deal what do you think are the most overrated cars uh I mean the the one I'm most known for I really think the Lexus LFA is overrated I think that car is way more valuable than it should be I think I don't think those cars kind of suck I think honestly a lot of the kic Pagani type cars are kind of overrated a lot of the a lot of the new cars that are made to be special just for Rich guys I find to be really kind of gross and and and just not cool like there's a new coach like but it was just an evented or rebody it's not that's not a special car the old Countach was a special unusual crazy thing um I find a lot of those like special editions just to make Rich guys feel like they got one and so they're special are really overrated cars and I think the market will realize that there's a lot of those cars they are valuable now I don't think they're going to be valuable 20 years so what car stereotypes have you found are true almost all people have stereotypes for a reason man Raptor owners really are like that Dodge Ram owners really are like that uh you know I I find almost all car the Vintage Porsche guys are the annoying watch obsessed you know like they are all the car stereotypes are are generally true I typically so what stereotypes are there for the Carrera GT owners I think the car GT owners are um a lot of them as I have come to learn but I think and I think the stereotype is out there is that they're obsessed with keeping the car pristine never driving it so that the values continue to rise an enormous portion of these guys don't touch their cars and are like kind of keep it in a bubble type guys people are whenever I say post a picture of mine anywhere people like I can't believe you're driving it it's like that's a car um and also you know it's it is really the greatest driver's car ever built and so there's this stereotype that like it's a hard car to control and to own and so the type of people who would actually drive one they must know what they're doing you know I don't feel that way I feel the car is actually pretty easy to drive but and what about Ferrari Ferrari owners I mean you know Ferrari owners have The Stereotype of all the Ferrari gear and bragging to everybody that they have a Ferrari and all and I I generally find that that that often is the case like those guys are really proud that they have a Ferrari and sometimes it's like okay do you know how to tell someone has a Ferrari yeah they'll tell you they'll tell you 100% of the time like really really out there it's actually funny I think about a lot until I got the Countach my car collection was a carrer GT a Ford GT and the convertible G wagon and to a sort of car Enthusiast none of those cars sound cool C GT oh my uncle has a Carrera right they don't you know Ford GT oh you got a Mustang right convertible G wagon oh G wagon yeah okay it's an old one with a soft top and it's like no you don't understand and and now that I have the lambo that that everybody knows that car but I always kind of found it funny that like to the Casual Observer I was just kind of a loser whereas some guy who spent 40 Grand on a used Ferrari can go brag that he's got a Ferrari and everybody's like oh that's funny what car would you least like to drive for one year stet a lot of very compromised exotic cars big cars too are really to drive like giant trucks I reviewed a Ford F650 one time which is actually a thing and the I mean stuff like that is just hard you can't park and you can't get into any building any garage anything like that um but also Countach as much as I love it like when I park it at the end of a long day of driving it I'm like I'm good and I don't take it out for two weeks what car would you least like to be seen driving oh that's a good one Hummer h 2 really yeah those are pretty 2004 days these days though Hummer raage 2os are kind of starting to become cool again actually really I don't know there's nothing that I I am a wide adopter of like all maners cars I've had Korean British German American Japanese I've had it all I don't really have a lot of like so you see me in a car that has a bad rep whatever I'm cool with it yeah now in terms of running cars and bids to shift into this what was the most surprising thing about running a business and taking that from YouTube to like an actual company running a business is hard it turns out it's quite hard there's like customers and employees and it's not easy to do like I it's hard you seem so much more relaxed today than when we first first met I agree like back then you were very just like I don't it seemed like you had a lot going on I was obsessive about everything and it's been nice to have an investor partner who worries about some of that stuff not for me but like an addition but also like running yeah running a business is challenging um it is nice to be in a financial position where you don't have to worry and and I never really was before you know I was doing well on YouTube but um that cap could be turned off off at any time and um and that helps that that really really really helps it it definitely lowers the stakes from I absolutely have to do this or else I'll I don't know what'll happen to like let's make this succeed but it's like a fun project I actually think I'm a better employee and person now um even though you'd think it would be the opposite some people work better under like heavy pressure Financial or otherwise and I think it's actually I don't I think yeah you seem so much happier yeah yeah like 100 no I mean there was there was a especially that time when we when we met like it was tough like running the business was hard um especially like by myself with my co-founder like it was hard it was there was a lot of work and at that stage of a business too you don't know you don't know what's going to happen is it going to and and that's hard too so you're putting in these long hours for something that might not work and you know managing employees and managing a space and managing the business and and and the customers which is the hardest part for sure it's a lot it's just a lot I I'm never doing it again people are like but yeah but you say that but really in a couple years AG no I never doing it again ever what was the hardest part for you to to get it was it the hours or just the getting it going was the hardest part at the very beginning um the first four or five months you know you're that's when that's Sinker swim especially when you're as public as we are right like a lot of startups you can roll out to a select group you can roll out to you know a small audience in one state to to just doctor you know whatever it whatever your startup is I don't know um but like we were we launched I mean we announced to launch the day we launched you know and then everyone knew because I was on YouTube and it was a big deal and etc etc and so like those those if it wasn't going to work it was G to fail like in those days like I didn't have a second chance there wasn't going to be a larger audience later um and and we had built a great product but like it needed it needed a lot of effort right then and there like there were more customers than we ever expected right away and then there were less customers than we expected soon after and it was like okay we have different problems now we got to figure this out and there was just constant triage and whack-a-mole and putting out fires and I'm never doing it again I straight up I'm never doing it again I I just I remember those days and I'm too old for it and I'm I probably have too much money for it I don't have I don't have the the ability to um like go through it again and and and also by the way the YouTube channel was like that too and so like really I consider it that there were two successful businesses the YouTube channel also had a very difficult start a lot of effort an enormous amount of work long nights long hours long weekends a lot of travel then we started the cars and bids business which was all of those things once again so like it happened twice and I think that's all you get some people get more that's all I get how has your job changed since the investment in cars and bits the it it changed in my mind for the dramatic better which is that I don't have to really deal with a lot of the day-to-day operations anymore and I can instead Focus heavily on the thing that not only do I do best but I enjoy the most and I am most valuable to the business in which is making the videos you know I was I was personally setting reserves like people would send in their car and I would like be the one to type like you know we'll offer you 20 oh I want 25 like I personally did that just by myself for the first six months and we hired one other dude and then me and him did it and for the next year so like it's nice not to have to do that anymore and I've replaced that time I certainly don't work less but I've replaced that time with filming videos which again is most beneficial for the business to have me out there but also I just enjoy it I I to this day people are like don't you get tired of it and I'm like nah like I'm the quirks and features I still to this day I'm like I can't wait to see what this Bentley's gonna have you know that's so interesting do you find that you're less motivated because you have less skin in the game no surprisingly no I'm not necessarily less motivated but it is nice not to be in a position where I where like it has to be a certain thing outcome it's nice interesting now for sellers who sell their cars on auction webites I'm curious does having a no Reserve help get a higher price or like what sort of strategy if the car is good yeah we we generally find that no Reserve cars bring more money more bids more comments more views more money almost always but you can also get screwed I always tell people if you have like a good car that you're confident is good you take good photos I tell people you are your own Reserve like if you take good photos you're a good seller who answers questions who has a video who has service records like you don't need a reserve you just don't like that that stuff is your reserve um and then and then going no reserves shows a level of confidence in the car that you know it's going to do well and buyers know they're not wasting their time so that's a winner if the car is sketchy I don't know like like you know if you're or or if it's just a weird car that you don't know there's not much comps you don't know where the market is you have this idea in mind yeah it makes more sense for Reserve when I sell all my cars I sell them all with no reserve and not even cars that I get like views on when I talk about usually when I get to the point where I'm selling a car I just want it gone um but also I just really feel pretty confident in the photos that I have a professional photographer take and the way I've the standard to which I've maintained the car and that that is shown results and then what about when an auction ends is there any correlation between it ending on like a Sunday morning versus like a Monday afternoon yeah I've firmly believe that weekend auctions are a bad idea we don't run them um I'm going to eat my words someday when we expand to run weekend auctions we G have to edit all this out um we don't run weekend auctions um uh other than that we'd have not found a correlation some sellers are convinced I only want my cars on Monday and it's funny because you'll hear be guys be like I won't sell on a Friday and so we we we we will we will accommodate that and we'll schedule them not on Fridays but like you have another seller who's equally as Smart in his mind he's like I only want Friday it's like we'll accommodate that too but just so you know you guys should talk um we we have not found you would think there would be some correlation but we have not now I do think that generally speaking in Winter you probably get a little less money for your your Enthusiast especially sports car than in spring summer fall what about correlation between two competing cars like I noticed for the Cyber truck for a while there's only one at a time that would end and then a few days later a new Cyber we try not to run to competing cars at the same time um with rivan it got to a point where we couldn't do that there were just so many we would try to run them geographically distinct so if one is in Boston and one is in San Francisco we could run those they're probably not competing um but I do think that that does have an impact if you run two cars at the same time certainly a person could be like well I didn't win that one but I'll win this one and so I'm not going to bid as high interesting and what about for buyers who buy a car sight unseen how do they ensure that the car is going to be in good working order is it P just you know buying the seller and buying the seller um we this is one of the reasons we require so much stuff and sellers get really frustrated with us because it's like I got to put in 150 pictures and three videos and I got to submit all the documentation and the title and all that um but it makes the process better for everybody not just buyers but sellers too like when you don't do that um and I got a buddy who just bought a Bentley on a competing platform uh that just was grossly misrepresented and when you don't do that the result is that that you end up with an upset buyer who's then going after the seller the seller is in that situation trying to resolve that the auction business has to step in it's a tough thing you want to try to represent the you want to try to ask for as much stuff as possible to allow buyers to do as much diligence that doesn't mean they will and in a lot of cases we've had buyers be like are this Dent's on here and it's like the dent is in every picture like but they complain and it's like well okay you know then that's an that's a more difficult problem to solve how many cars do you deny selling a lot but you'd be surprised people submit Nissan Rogues and stuff like like we we probably deny more than half the cars to get submitted but like a lot of the a lot of it's just open trash like traffic car like like Honda Civics that have automatic 12-year-old Honda Civic with 200,000 miles I don't know how they found us like what are you doing here but a lot of stuff just gets denied straight away so the numbers make it seem like we're very selective but with Enthusiast cars we try not to be too selective I like to be the platform that sells the crappy one that it's so rough that if you want to just turn into a track car you can and also the nice one that is like going to be a special show car to me I will say I like how curated it is that it seems like every day I could go on see a few new cars read new comments and they're all interesting and it's not just you know blown up with Toyota cameras right right so I like that it tries to be a platform for un when I scroll you know on the especially on the desktop it's like three across or four across I try to make sure like in every one of those three across like which one of those of those three would I get like there's always something interesting in every Row in every col how much work goes into like organizing the cars of like having certain mies and models next to each other like is there any very little of that but scheduling is is uh complicated okay sellers have their own preferences like I said some sellers have Essentials like I'm going out of town XYZ day it has to end before that or I'm not going out of town until XYZ dat like it it can't start until after I get back um some and and and then there's you don't want two cars to run at the same time and so you have to be carot cognizant of that and so there's there's two identical cars and so there's a there's actually a lot that goes into the scheduling but we don't think about it like let's put a BMW next to a Mercedes or let's not put two BMWs together that generally doesn't have that we do try to balance no reserve and Reserve cars we try to have like no Reserve Reserve no Reserve Reserve to to try to break things up a little so if there's so much demand that you turn down half of the vehicles why not expand the business from cars and bids to something else where it's like you know commuter cars or normal everyday cars that just sell at an auction did we talk about this stuff I mean this is that's that's that's an interesting question you like that it's curated I mean I think a lot of people do I think a lot of enthusiasts like that however there's a bigger Market out there do you do that maybe but do you then alienate the people who came in the first place maybe probably that's why it's a separate website I'm not starting any more businesses gram maybe you could is a regular consumer willing to buy a car that way you know an Enthusiast will bid an auction for a car they know they're not going to find another one of is a regular person maybe I don't know no these are these are things we discuss for sure I mean there there's possibilities there I've always wondered since the UI seems so great and the dashboard's great if you could just license and sell all that coding in backend as a template to other people that are trying to sell other things like watches have some sort of bidding wars on anything I wonder about that too it's really well done it shouldn't be super hard to extract all that just pay some dude some exorbitant amount of money to extract all the coding and everything I wanted to do a cars and bids of watches we we registered watches and bids.com don't go after us or don't try so I briefly looked there's a website called watch collecting. comom it's located in the UK and they do that but the issue with that is they have so few watches uh guaranteeing authenticity of certain watches can be difficult their fee is so high uh and every watch has such a high um Reserve they don't they don't hit like half of the watches on there just never hitting it's very difficult I've learned I didn't know this before thank God but it's very difficult to create a two-sided Marketplace to have to to have enough inventory for buyers to be happy and to have enough buyers for sellers to be happy it is tremendously difficult to put those things together when you see the marketplaces that have the Reserves that are too high it means they're desperate for Sellers and so they'll let sellers list at any price they can just to have the inventory come in and you would be shocked how many other car auction websites have come up and died since we launched and I have this theory that I people see me in the t-shirt and shorts and they're like this guy's an idiot if he can do it we can do it um it ain't easy it is not easy uh and everybody finds that out like it is very very hard to get enough inventory going it's very hard enough to get enough buyers to make sure the inventory gets to the price level where it should it is not easy bring a trailer Cars and bids is pretty impressive that this has happened even because it's hard yeah I certainly think your audience is perfect for it and your viewership was that was key BR trailer did it because they took a long time to develop oh gosh years years I did because I had a built-in audience other people who try don't realize how important one of those two things is and that you really can't do it without one of those two things and in some cases even if you have an audience already it's still tremendously difficult I've had other YouTubers try to create car auction websites that have not succeeded and it's har is there anything you would go back and change knowing what you know now no probably not but it was a lot of work and maybe we should have just done a podcast what lessons have you learned from like building up a business like this that maybe when you're young okay that's the biggest do it when you're young that is the number one lesson that I would tell people um I had time and I didn't have as much to lose and um that's big like when you have kids and a mortgage and three super car like it's different you do it when you're young and I was rewarded greatly and I get a lot of time with my kids now yeah how has it changed having kids while also running a business and maybe kind of Shifting back towards the family life um you just gota go of do it and but I feel bad for the guys who have to grind throughout their kids' lives like I obviously no longer have to grind at the crazy level where I was it's hard to convince people who are 23 to 33 years old to like buckle down and just like focus on creating a business starting a business and like rocking it it's so hard cuz those are the ages where you want to party and hang out and have fun and I didn't do any of that stuff and I just did a business um or two and and but it's but I'm so glad that I did because when you're in the Family Life situation it is so nice to be able to hang out with my kids and I I'm shocked at how much I enjoy family life and I'm shocked by how much I enjoy being a dad and I'm I'm cool with the way that it worked out I'm cool with giving up those tenures have you always been like that or did you start enjoying it when you actually have a family oh no I definitely thought I was not the first year even I was like I don't know I'm not sure yeah uh but once my first son once he got older and started talking and like we're like best buds now and I just I love it it's it's shockingly enjoyable so the one thing we hear from a lot of people they say one of their regrets is not having kids sooner do you find that to be the case now that you have it was the right time for me uh I wanted to I wanted to travel a ton my wife and I traveled a ton we met really young so we've been everywhere in the world together which is cool and I wanted to do the the businesses and and we did and got it done and and it was a huge thing and now is like the the next season of my life is this the season for kids how do you make sure your kids don't grow up spoiled I don't know man I'm worried so about I didn't grow up rich and so like I'm actually a little envious of my friends who grew up rich and are well adjusted which is rare to have both um because they like know what to do instinctually they grew up in a household that like raised nice rich kids most rich kids aren't nice good people and my kids are obviously going to grow up in a different situation than me and I I don't know I got to figure that out I'm scared of that I don't know I honestly don't know the answer yet they're still too young to have to really figure it out they they don't when someone comes up to you on the street for example they don't know they they just think it's a friend you know like but we're getting there and so I and we're getting to the point where I got to deny them presence and be like no you can't have that even though it's obviously affordable um and teach them that stuff and so I'm it makes me nervous for sure I don't know the answer from some of the guests that we've had on the ones with the kids that are most well adjusted seem to be the ones that get thrown into work early on and get to see what it's like to earn money or just be a part of something that where they're contributing to it it seems like that is the differentiating factor interesting yeah no I mean that's going to be a bit my kids are going to be working we you know in the summer we live in Massachusetts in the summer town and they're going to be wor they're going to be scooping ice cream when they're 14 damn the child labor laws five bucks an hour plus tip if they're lucky yeah uh but no that that scares me a lot interesting and what about the secrets to having just a a long-standing marriage and a and a happy relationship I've been married now for uh for only seven years but I've been with my wife for a long time of 15 years um I don't know we're we're we're great together we're she great communication and we're both uh positive people and um I can't imagine being with anyone else how did how did you know she was the one uh I don't know I uh it just it it developed very gradually actually some people are like I saw her and three weeks later we were engaged and it took me like six years but uh did you have pressure from like family and like come on you know what interesting when we got together we lived in the South I went to Emy I was in Atlanta and everybody's like when are you like right out of college people like what are you going to propose and it's like I don't know what are you and then we lived in the north and we never got that question like people we lived in Philly and people went their whole lives without getting married you know and then but then we eventually did how did you guys meet uh in college we I was her I was my wife's ra believe it or not it work were you lenient yeah I I was the cool ra I was I really the only reason I became an AR was because I wanted a single room that was on campus I didn't want to have to commute from some off-campus apartment but I didn't want to share a room and so all the on campus rooms were like doubles or triples and so I was like well I can be an RA so I did and so what was the pickup line for Jack like what line did you line is Jack looking Jack is looking uh I don't hey I'm your ra nice to meet you I don't know it didn't it didn't happen that way that's smooth what do you do ja you go you try it you on the apps uh yeah I am but I don't like I don't spend a lot of time on them anymore there was a while he was paying he was paying someone right to go through the app I was never paying anybody to go through the apps for me he's just making things up you should have been uh 26 so so you're on the apps and and sometimes but it's hard to do it all um I don't know it's just like I'm always at a conflicting spot of like okay I can go and I can try to have you know girlfriends and stuff like that and or like you know casually go on dates and stuff like that or I can try to settle down and find a wife but all of that is pretty exhausting like any whatever Direction you choose it's going to be pretty right you know you're already you got Graham yeah he wears me out he's like a relationship of his own it's like really have to curate this but you you uh what are the what are the ladies like in Las Vegas uh I mean I would say they're typically not really my my cup of tea generally speaking I mean you have some transient people that just like come and go and then a lot of the people that are born in Vegas and they stay in Vegas you know what are you doing real out like the real I guess like the needle and the Hast stack would be someone that you know moved to Vegas for tax purposes some job relo some job relocation you know and it isn't in Vegas I'm GNA say some awful things you're right I agree I actually feel similar about San Diego um because it's such a party it's like a play City there's no industry here and so you're always like who are these people who are here um I as I'm always curious what dating is like because I never did it m and certainly I never had to like be on the apps and everything so I'm always like you know it depends I mean like if if you're confident in yourself and you feel like you're you know you have some sort of marketplace value in in the dating scene then it's it shouldn't be hard still difficult it's still exhausting and tiresome to do it's definitely it's it's like a muscle you know what I mean like you have you can't just like KN go on a date for three years and then go out on a date and it's like an amazing date you definitely have to like get adjusted to talking to people that you're interested in at least for me this has been my experience I won't say this dogmatic way for everybody but absolutely like if I don't talk to anybody for a while I come back like and I don't even know how to continue a conversation it's like I I talk for a living but I can't talk to you know right girls I guess it's easy to interview it would be difficult to like spark attraction from like you know so it's a muscle for sure and some people are just naturally more attuned to being better at that and some people are naturally not it's kind of just like biology do you ever turn on the apps when you're when you're traveling um I have before in the past and in fact I brought this up to Graham because I wanted to do it and we were traveling somewhere and he's like no no no you got to focus Jackie it's crazy it's crazy because he wants me to have a girlfriend and then next then the week later he's like no no no just go out have fun like you know be young like go do stupid Stu as long as it's not inconvenient and then he also will say like oh you got to focus on the business it's like he's giving me you know very My Line in the Sand focus on the business first yes yes which is what I which is what I would prefer to do right yeah right but AR are you worried that the years are going to go by I am yeah I mean I just turned 26 and to be honest I had a little bit like on my 26th birthday I'm thinking to myself like well my brother you know he met his girlfriend of 10 years like when he was I don't know 1819 and then my parents they met in high school so now I'm thinking to myself like 26 like I'm going to croak before I that's normal now people in their 20s that's like normal I know but then I also like I really want kids and I think back to what a lot of the guests on our podcast say which is you have kids early as early as possible because your life is just so much better once you do have kids or at least when you can communicate with your kids and they're like receptive to you uh that you want as much of your life as possible in that range in that state yeah you want to be young 26 though you're still pretty young yeah but I also like I don't want to mess up so I also want to date the person for a long time it's like time is pretty Spar and then there's time before you want to have kids and yeah so it's it's complicated you know I'm pretty confident in my ability to figure it out I have some pretty actually surprisingly he is a good Mentor as much as a crap I give him he's he's he usually doesn't lead me in the wrong direction so do have you ever said no to one of the part has he ever like introduced you to a partner and you've been like you gota you gotta he he gives he gives his insights you know yes yes yes sometimes he's that's a tough conversation to have sometimes he's like oh yeah you know like this is yes so I I do the both extremes there's one where I was like dude AB what are you thinking absolutely perfect and then there's another like I don't see it I'm trying to be polite and I not but but I take no offense the thing that I the thing that I absolutely love about Graham which actually was a big part and and I know this is not like a therapy session but that a big reason why I I guess I had a little bit of resentment towards Graham for a long time is because he is the the most straight shooter of a human I've ever met in my entire life like he just gives you his version of the truth no matter whatever the subject is like he doesn't sugarcoat things he doesn't like you know worry about your feelings when he's telling you something and I was always so confused because I'm like like like I would show him an edit I made he's like I hate it and I thought that was a reflection of myself but it was actually just on the work that I did and I have to create a little bit of distance there but but now I love it because anything I come to him for he's just like straight up and now I know I can be the exact same with him I like that I've learned that with the younger folks you you you have to do the sugar coat absolutely I've been taught that I hate it too yeah what is your biggest insecurity probably my beard what do you think your beard I like it I just started growing it like like three weeks ago five weeks you like it I I noticed it when I when I saw some content so uh I think it's good if if I were to give you just some straight shooting some gr style advice I would say I would say the way you're shaped it looks great it looks good and I like the beard however I would say the way you're shaping it I would probably shape it a little bit differently it's a little thin right here I I agree with that I got to take it yeah I would take it up I I don't have a lot of things generally that I'm particularly insecure about I'm very committed to the stuff that I am committed to and as a result of that if people make fun of me I'm like all right let's do it I don't care the one thing you could do is turn into like a Jeff Bezos like get absolutely jaed yeah I probably could you know I got to tell you that's actually one thing that I do think about a lot I devoted 12 13 years of my life to businesses yeah and there were some personal things that definitely and like eating right and getting healthy and stuff definitely uh fell by the wayside and that's one of my goals now that maybe I'm not I don't have to be as obsessive and and I think that happens to I I've noticed that happens to a lot of people who are in I'm always very impressed when people are able to both start grow and succeed in a business and also take amazing care of themselves I don't know how they do it I I just was I was devoted to the business I would stay up late eating cookies and that was the situation you know and how are you going to go about doing that are you going to get a personal trainer you going to start researching videos I think I'm going to start by just eating better yeah like not a whole pizza for dinner you know what I mean I'll start there that's tough I that's a hard that's a pretty lofty goal right there I don't know dad dinner my dad used to do that just a pizza you know the microwavable ones too right totally take it out of the freezer put the mic Uber screwed us all we had to make a no Uber R in my household because it got out of control um pricewise or just like just just like you can have whatever you want and it just comes to you you don't even have to go out it just comes to you that's just that's dangerous um but yeah I I do think about it's and it's not just that like I it's not just like my health and my body I I you know there's reading I would love to catch up on there's there's like relationships that I could probably do better in that you know that I think you just have to kind of neglect a little if you if you want to really go hard um but then you it's nice to be in a position to to not be so negle so when do you know when to scale back from all the work because you could if you want to continue pressing forward like continue maximizing like the in that's that's the question I think that's like the question um and every person has to answer it at some point more or less um you know when do you stop and and for Bezos right it's like I'm gonna keep going I got two billion I'm gonna get four billion right and there are guys like that I don't consider myself one of them um I think that there's a point where you stop and where you look at your family and you say I'd rather I'd rather devote time here now I'm not at that point I still do a lot of work I don't I don't I'm not as crazy hard grindy as I was and I think scaling back has made more sense for me at least in terms of my mental obsessions than just stopping but I I think that like that's the question and you know as as I'm sure you're aware there's formulas you can do how much money do I spend how much money you know safe withdrawal rate and all that stuff there there's a literal answer to the question but some people get enjoy it like I'm astonished by this but there are people who make 200 million and and just well I got to have 300 it's I don't I think that's a little gross to be honest and a little mental disorder be totally Frank um but some people really enjoy working and I enjoy it too but I wouldn't if I was at 200 I wouldn't I'd be good get a couple more car if I had 200 million I wouldn't be doing this right now I'll tell you that nope like nope everybody everyone who would it's kind of like the person who already called you right I mean we have no idea who that who that was it never ends I'm building something in my house they're pouring concrete no I'm talking about the voice oh right yeah what's that about that guy that I've gotten to the position where I could say no to him I'm just saying that could be a billionaire who sounded very I'm all set sounded official to me well what I found honestly that's helped me lose a lot of weight um cuz I'm down 10 pounds of body fat like and a lot of it was just in my belly and I hated it yeah there was a video that I did I I'll never forget this it was CNBC came and they set up a camera and you just see my belly hang over my belt and I hated it and that switched something in me so I switched to a whole food diet uh so no processed foods no sugar and drinks I got rid of coffee creamer which is a big one uh and meal preps just processed foods in general Beyond just trying to look better or feel like processed foods are kind of sketchy and I that's a but when you're that's another thing when you don't have a lot of time there's some some stuff you just have to kind of take do because that's the the situ that you're in you know and and and some of those Foods really are not great for you and we're finding more and more out about that stuff and that kind of sketches me out but sometimes that's the easy thing or the cheap thing or the quick thing yeah the other thing too is sauces so for me it would be like sauces and cheeses so you can't stop cheese cheeses aren't super bad you Hadad cheese you can't stop eating chees I prefer no cheese you can't no you can't what you you get a pizza cheeseless I just don't eat pizza pizza I just don't E Pizza I kind of had St too yeah but uh Chipotle was a good example where I think I'm eating really healthy but I get like two things of sour cream on top of it so it would be really sour cream mixed in with all the other stuff with the cheese on top of it I'm like this is double the calories than just having the food itself without the two right that's true taste as good no it doesn't but you get used to it believe it or not like my pet now I could eat something totally plain and enjoy it yeah it's like your the dog it's so excited for just like the same food but it's all they know really also when you eat less it tends to make you more hungry which I think also being hungry can be a good thing like if you live your life for like 5 years and you have never been hungry once in those five years right it's not a good situation no and I notice I have better mental acuity when I'm hungry I notice that I'm more energized when I'm hungry everything for me in terms of productivity is generally better when I'm hungry obviously not starving but like you know haven't eaten in a few hours for years up until a couple years ago I wouldn't eat until dinner all day or just go yeah I feel like after I eat there's like definitely like a kind of slowness and things taste better when you're hungry too so you could I love the one dinner to me I love the one dinner because it's like one meal that you get to treat yourself have you don't have to be obsessive about Cal if you if you will if you're willing to do that a lot of people can't do that but I'm I got no problem with all day you mentioned reading what's like some of your favorite books you know I'm not a book guy like book aook books are long you ever read a book sometimes I love long form journalism long form articles are my favorite thing in the whole world and uh I spend when I have free time I spend it reading long form like in the Atlantic in New Yorker in New York Times and Wall Street Journal like a good two-hour read about some obscure subject I will eat that up I love it like what what an obscure subject oh anything and everything I I don't like sports but I love sports long forms I'll go for days on like the college football um the the draft thing what the hell is it called um I have absolutely no qus I like love getting deep into subjects even if I'm not that into the subject I also hate reading like carong forms anything that I actually know I'd rather I like would like to learn something in a long form um and I love love love long form Journal is my favorite thing in the whole world what are interest do you have outside of cars very few uh I love travel okay I love houses and architecture I own two old homes that I absolutely am obsessed with uh I love um I'm a I'm a huge vintage home Enthusiast me too I like 1920s Craftsman were Spanish yeah I have a Victorian too an 1880s Victorian that that's that's like become so I wanted to get a Victorian house in Jefferson Park Los Angeles they have a lot of Victorian hes so expensive to refurbish those homes to period correct Aesthetics lot of wood lot of paint yes yeah but it's very expensive to maintain too yeah yeah um but I really am obsessed with the houses um and just like places and travel in general um everybody says travel but I'm like really obsessed with travel and then uh I I have taken up tennis for some reason I play tennis every day pick ball no pickle Ball's for children don't don't get started on that we we were we were having such good banter this whole podcast and then you had a bad mouth pickle ball do you play tennis uh I have oh but you you play the like lesser everybody loves pickle ball tennis is hard singles tennis I play pickall yeah you stand there and you hit the ball and you do it in jeans while you're hold drink we never played anyone that's decent in pickle ball that's what that's what I'll tell okay but for tennis you don't even have to play someone who's decent to get a real workout you're that's you ever see the size of tennis court like the size of this room it's like huge yeah but you don't get rallies I do we we we can go we could go back and forth if I play someone who's at my skill level or near it I can rally for a long time and it's fun and I and you get really tired I mean I finish at tennis and I'm like it's a workout play an hour every morning pick ball you play six seven hours you're like huh I I think he needs a real challenge I think that that's what you're being a drink while you're doing that sipping a drink texting texting you could def text while you're playing ball Lastly lastly where would you recommend people travel what's what's what's like your favorite travel destinations I know you really like depends greatly who people are I I find that to be a Hu like we we we love our n Tucket but it's not for everybody I Lake KO is my favorite place in the whole world in Northern Italy but that also is not for everybody it's it's especially if you want to do it right it's actually kind of Rural and there's not all that much to do um but I don't know I just I really think that seeing the world is really important and I have truly loved and enjoyed getting out there and seeing unusual and different and special places and so I think just anybody who can get anywhere and do anything I think that if you're Baseline if you just are American who's never traveled overseas Italy is the coolest place in the world it gives you everything you can still use your English but it does feel like a different country and it's kind of an insane place like you want a foreign country to be and it's absolutely beautiful Italy as it all but there are so many great places that you can travel to and I just think that everybody should I think people would learn more and and have a the society would be better if people knew more about each other's cultures I will never forget when I went to Dubai um and you know the Muslims and the American conservatives they don't really get along that well right and I went to Dubai and uh I will never forget the I land and I'm driving around and what are they what are they doing in Dubai they're driving giant pickup trucks going out into the desert rolling over sand dunes and shooting guns in the air and I'm like you know if you guys would just meet I actually think yeah best friends we have a lot in be okay I think everything would be all right here but I think a lot of people don't want to you know that there the the fear of other is a big deal and so I think travel helps to bridge that Gap I think it's incredibly important you know what would do so well for you is traveling but doing quirks and features of different locations it would have if I was in a position where I was willing to travel at the level that I would have to do to make that many videos I I've always felt that travel videos on quirks and features and House tours if you were to go around the globe would kill but I just don't want to put it I I'm I'm good this is for you create a travel agency around your business of curated things that you could buy into you totally could Cy trip no Jack this is you run with it honestly we're giving this to you Doug if if you created packages of like 10 grand or 20 grand or different levels to it where it's like hey 10 grand we're going to we're going to get your hotels your meals your travel guides pick up two and from I'm not starting any other businesses you take this I'm G you take it it's a great idea I'm not doing think of all the customers I'm out you could make more money though I'm out I got a career GT I I'm out you could get an F40 I know I do want an F40 but I don't want it bad enough to have to do the kind of work that is required that's the thing you could take your family with you and create a family Vlog this is for you you do this you do this you are well you have a great audience of people who have money you can do this today I'll pass don't you anything any want to do it but you do it no you do it should do it out I'm never doing anything else ever again I read my kids bedtime stories that's my business we do two or three books depending on how good they were that day it's a great title Doug deiro on quitting there we go I don't I you guys and with that said you guys thank you so much for T podcast really means a lot thank you for letting us come over here use the studio I mean this is all of your equipment we got to travel light which is so nice so nice thank you for coming it was great to have you here and if you want to sell your Enthusiast car check out cars and B bids cars and bids not sponsored no no but it's but it's a great website it's a it's a cool website Graham checks it all the time honestly daily daily I check give the pitch go ahead yeah I check I check the website daily no joke and I like to see all the cool cars that come up there and I read the comments when are you going to buy some when are you going to sell some yeah you sell Tes I was so I was thinking no honestly I was thinking about selling my Tesla Model 3 but but I'm looking at the prices and I'm thinking for need to get a new one I don't need a new one I just want more range that's it so I got the standard range uh 2019 and ideally I would love to have enough range to drive to Los Angeles without charging that's it that's all I want but I don't need it and I don't really drive to La it's maybe a few times a year so do I want to spend no 20 grand more for a few times a year no probably not so that's that's why that's the financial advice the car Enthusiast who's running the car auction website yeah not only do you want that you want to get a better yeah the one card model X no honestly the one card really want is the uh the Plaid yeah it's like a 2021 plaid yeah for like under 50 with like you know mid-range miles yeah they're getting there you want to just Flex on people at stop lights I feel it that that's all I want with the good range with the 400 m or the long range Model S which is really fast yeah or Lucid air uh charging yeah but those 500 Mile ranges just in case you could drive the Lucid a from Vegas to Los Angeles back back again to Connecticut no charging no I'm kidding I don't know it's just it's just the idea of not having a charger within like you know you can still charge them you go to Electrify America they they bad they got 12 charging stations that are Electrify America one or two of them probably work I've seen we're going to get Electrify America us now I've seen some of the charging stations that are not Tesla they're awful I mean absolutely horrible and then the government waste with how much money like they they've just spent and subsidized for these things that don't work that are previous to putting the charging stations in the Chargers in my house I have had to charge publicly sometimes and I mean the Electrify America station near my house you can get one two miles a range if you're willing to put in 20 25 minutes bad not yeah but you know what we we'll talk maybe maybe there's there's a scenario where my car will be on cars and bits bring it up the $78 Tesla model with that to you guys thank you so much for watching till next time