Video summary
Dr. Layne Norton confirms that building muscle on a vegan diet is entirely possible, though it often requires more targeted effort and strategic planning compared to other dietary approaches. He emphasizes that while most people do not aspire to be the absolute strongest human being in existence, those who wish to build significant muscle mass must ensure they consume sufficient total protein, ideally around two grams per kilogram of body weight according to research findings. However, Norton notes a distinct challenge with whole-food plant proteins: their lower bioavailability and reduced content of anabolic amino acids like leucine compared to animal sources or isolated vegan powders. Because intact plant foods contain fiber that binds up some protein, cooking can improve absorption but rarely matches the efficiency of cooked eggs or steak; therefore, bodybuilders on a vegan diet are often advised to utilize isolated protein sources to maximize muscle protein synthesis without relying solely on whole food calories which come bundled with carbohydrates and fats. A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the dangers of dietary extremism and the loss of nuance when individuals become "diet evangelists." Norton critiques how both extreme keto advocates promoting processed items like keto ice cream and vegan proponents consuming highly processed foods such as vegan chicken wings miss the core health principles of their respective diets. He argues that a diet should be based on whole, unprocessed foods from nature rather than recreating the very food groups one claims to avoid or disparage. This ideological rigidity often forces black-and-white scenarios that contradict scientific reality; for instance, while strict veganism might limit fiber intake slightly compared to an omnivore diet, it presents immediate and severe risks regarding nutrient deficiencies like Vitamin B12 and iron if not carefully managed with supplementation. The conversation also addresses specific concerns regarding soy consumption, particularly its potential impact on sex hormones. Norton cites meta-analyses indicating that for men consuming two to three servings of soy daily, there is no negative effect on testosterone or estrogen levels. While he acknowledges some effects in premenopausal women, the consensus presented suggests that "soy boy" products are safe and do not warrant fear among male athletes or bodybuilders seeking muscle growth. This segment highlights a broader theme where internet myths often exaggerate risks associated with specific food groups without adequate scientific backing, reinforcing Norton's stance against arbitrary rules that limit dietary flexibility unnecessarily. Technical concepts such as bioavailability are explained in detail to clarify why protein sources differ in effectiveness. Bioavailability refers to the percentage of ingested nutrients that actually enter circulation and become available for use by the body; while intact plant proteins may only be 50% to 70% bioavailable, animal proteins like eggs can reach up to 90%, with whey protein approaching nearly 100%. The discussion even touches on emerging technologies in sports nutrition, such as beta-lactoglobulin (BLG) concentrates used by European soccer players for power and endurance training. These ultra-concentrated shots allow athletes to ingest high doses of protein without excessive fluid volume, offering a practical solution for those needing precise macronutrient control during intense physical exertion or calorie deficits where isolating calories from whole foods is difficult. Ultimately, the dialogue concludes that while no single diet holds an inherent superiority over another when equated on calories and protein intake, the execution matters immensely. The most effective approach requires mindfulness regarding nutrient density rather than strict adherence to a specific food group ideology. Whether following a vegan, keto, or omnivore path, success depends on avoiding processed "diet foods" that undermine health goals and ensuring adequate intake of essential nutrients like B12 for vegans. By focusing on whole foods and utilizing supplements when necessary—such as isolated plant proteins or B12—to bridge nutritional gaps, individuals can achieve their fitness objectives regardless of the dietary framework they choose to adopt.
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so going to the other side of the fence
we've spoken about carnivore is it
possible to build muscle on a vegan diet
great question the answer is yes yes you
can build muscle on a vegan
diet
it's if your goal so I always have to
like unframe it out of like my mind
frame which is I want to be the most
muscular strongest human being I
possibly can and remember that not
everybody is like that in fact most
people aren't like that they just want
to build some muscle and look a little
bit better and feel stronger sure you
can absolutely build muscle on a vegan
diet
now will it take a little bit more uh
wherewithal probably is it the absolute
best diet for muscle
building um it can be but you have to be
more targeted with it in terms of making
sure you're getting enough total protein
and probably trying to pump your protein
quality up a little bit for most people
who are like if they're vegans and their
bodybuilders I'll say you're probably
going to want to use some kind of
isolated source of protein uh it can be
vegan protein but you're going to want
to probably use an isolated source of
protein and and the reason being that um
not only is vegan sources of protein
typically lower in amino acids that are
anabolic promoting like Lucine which is
the amino acid that's been shown to
increase muscle protein synthesis um
they also in intact sources of plant
protein it's not as
bioavailable as an isolated source of
protein like a like a protein powder for
example because some of the protein is
bound up in the fibrous material of the
plant now cooking can make it more
bioavailable but typically not nearly as
much as like an animal protein or or an
isolated source of protein but I mean
really the big thing is if you're
getting enough total protein you know
say two grams per per kilogram of body
weight I mean the research says that
you're going to build as much muscle so
you can um the the what I would say is
it's just maybe a little bit more
difficult especially on like a calorie
deficit because the if you're especially
if you're trying to do all intact
sources of protein like whole food
sources of protein because now you're
getting the calories from protein along
with calories from carbohydrate because
they come along for the ride you can't
isolate them as effectively as a steak
or set of eggs or whatever correct what
are your main concerns about somebody
that's on a vegan
diet uh I think the main concern is I
have about pretty much any diet is if if
you if you do vegan the right way it can
very healthy just like if you do keto
the right way it can be very healthy
where you're using mostly unprocessed
sources of food but when you become a
diet evangelist it can become very
unhealthy because you tie the identity
to the vegan portion of that and so I
remember watching the game changers and
they're talking about all the health
promoting effects of the vegan diet and
then they're showing a scene where
they're like having them eat vegan
chicken wings and vegan mac and cheese
and I'm
like you're missing the point here um
and by the way you can't like why are
you trying to have it both ways here
it's either Health promoting now I'm not
saying you can never have fun foods like
that or anything like that of course
like nobody should be worried about
being
100% all the time
but just like without any Nuance to that
well if the ideology is based around
Whole Foods from nature natural etc etc
and then you try to recreate
your version of the very food that
you're trying to run away from or
disparage right that seems to sort of
turn the bar stool upside down well and
keto does the same thing like I said we
we've seen where like the ketogenic diet
is not Superior for fat loss if you're
equating calories and protein uh we have
really tightly specific studies looking
at that like metabolic W trials looking
at that um now there's keto ice creams
that have more calories of regular ice
creams and it's like no no like you're
missing the point here like the whole
point is if you keto where you're eating
like a lot of filling satiating Foods
you're going to eat less calories and
you'll you'll lose body fat do you
really think a keto ice cream is going
to help you facilitate that like no Ian
if you want a treat but just get the
regular ice cream if you want a treat
you know it seems to me with the with
the vegan diet
that it is uh practically a little bit
more complex to eat it well than most
other diets I have a bunch of friends
who who have gone vegan for a variety of
reasons and were you know evangelists
for that but said in retrospect after
stopping look I'm sure that a well
balanced vegan diet can give you
everything that you need but the level
of hurdles that I needed to overcome in
order to be able to hit the
macronutrients that I wanted to get to
it was so restrictive that I really
found that quite hard I'm not sure if
the same would be said for uh other
diets yeah I mean uh I think like Rich R
and I actually had this kind of like
discussion where he was kind of like
well couldn't you make that argument for
getting enough dietary fiber on say an
omnivore diet because if you're eating
more meat maybe you're eating less fiber
by default I think any diet needs to
have some mindfulness behind it I think
the thing with veganism is if you are
being really strict with it there are
things that might show up that are just
more apparent which like so for example
I'm omnivore diet maybe you're not
eating as much fiber but you're not
going to feel that difference really
quickly if you're not getting enough
vitamin B12 or iron you're going to feel
that pretty quick you like well in a few
months right because you're going to
have way less energy you're not going to
feel great but again I think uh one of
the tropes that I've really tried to get
away from with people is like hey you
can supplement it's okay you know like
just like round it out like if you're
worried you know and it's like um it's
funny because I had a carnivore kind of
argue like well you couldn't eat just
this food and get everything you get
from steak I'm like why do I need to
pick one food or one food group to just
eat that to justify a diet that seems
like a false dichotomy to me right and
that's what you find with a lot of these
diet tribes is they have to like force
these really like black and white
scenarios to make their argument work
and you know one of the things in
science is like uh it's not really aam's
Razer but you know aam's Razer is
basically like all things being equal
the hypothesis that requires the least
amount of assumptions is usually true
which Layman translated is the simplest
answer is usually true
um also the hypothesis that requires the
most stringent protocols to prove it to
be true is the flimsiest hypothesis and
usually not because you're making
arbitrary rules that fit your particular
prior right okay Bingo what about soy
does soy make you soy should we yeah
should should we wor about soy
so there was actually like I think two
metaanalyses done now in men looking at
testosterone showing that at least with
a few servings of soy per day no effect
on testosterone or estrogen so at least
in men it doesn't appear to do much now
and I I don't want to get this wrong uh
my scientific friends if I butcher it
please feel free to comment on this um
in I believe premenopausal women it has
been shown to have an effect on some sex
hormones but I don't know if it's a a
good bad or neutral effect that's it's
soy girl that we actually need to be
worried about not soy boy apparently but
in men doesn't seem to have an effect at
least in the you know two to three
servings per day range you've mentioned
it a couple of times today I hear this
word thrown around on the internet all
the time what the [ __ ]
bioavailability
uh so basically if you inest
a certain amount of a certain food how
much of that of the nutrients from that
wind up in circulation which nutrient
are you talking about all right is it as
big of a deal as everyone makes out so
like let's take protein for example
right so if I'm looking at protein B
availability and I take in 25 grams of
say a protein Source how much of that 25
grams actually hits circulation how much
gets absorbed through the intestinal
Lumen that's really what we're talking
about when it comes to bioavailability
and so uh it does matter I mean again
like we're looking at like if you look
at certain plant sources of protein they
could be 50 60 70% bioavailable on the
intact plant form like I said cooking
may make take that up a little bit more
um whereas if you're looking at animal
sources of protein they're usually like
90% And up you know eggs are very
absorbable when they're cooked um whey
protein very bioavailable I believe it's
almost 100% uh you looked at blg protein
beta lactoglobulin this stuff's so cool
dude so um soccer players in Europe are
using this at the moment it allows you
to get 20 grams of protein in a 100 Mil
shot so it's must be very um
soble Ultra Ultra concentrated and the
reason that they're giving it to
athletes that are doing uh like I guess
power endurance or like intermittent
ardio work precisely you are training
for 4 hours a day but you don't want to
have to sink 400 mil of liquid to get
your protein in you can put 200 mil and
get twice as much protein as you would
have done really interesting I think
it's like it's just an area that I'm
kind of keeping an eye on a little bit
that betal lactoglobulin uh stuff seems
to be really interesting we'll get back
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