C2C Care From Collections to Connections: Facilitating Access & Activation

Hello and welcome to this afternoon's connecting to collections care webinar. My name is Caitlyn Lee. I'm the outreach manager at the foundation for advancement and conservation which runs COC care and I'm joining you from Arlington, Virginia. I'm also thrilled to introduce Samantha Hunt Duran who is our new COC care coordinator. Please join me in welcoming her to the COC care community. Our programming is made possible through support from the Institute of Museum and Library Services, IMLS, and through individual contributions. We offer free monthly programs on collection care and you can always find us at connecting to collections.org. I encourage you to explore our site to see our archive of past webinars and learn about upcoming programming. We also host a fantastic community where you can have collection care questions answered by volunteer experts and connect with your colleagues. We use Wordley to help provide captioning and translation for our programs. You can use the QR code on the screen or the link that I'm sharing in the chat to join. If you decide to use the Wordly app in the Zoom application, you'll want to pop the Wordly app out first and then open the chat box to make sure you don't lose the app on your screen. If you're viewing the program in a browser window instead of the app, you'll need to access it via the QR code or the link code. The Wordly live stream link that appears in the upper right hand corner also acts as a link to the live feed. You can also connect with us on social media and find us on Facebook and LinkedIn. Our next webinar is taking place on August 12th at 12 Eastern on archiving in times of crisis. Keep an eye out on our site to register and stay tuned for updates on our upcoming programs which will focus on digital preservation and collection moves. There's a little bit of housekeeping. Uh please do use the chat to say hello and share where you're joining from, but please share any questions for our presenters through the Q&A function. As I mentioned earlier, we'd like to acknowledge the support of IMLS and recognize all of the community support we've received from CDC Care users. If you've benefited from CDC Care, we hope you'll consider making a gift to support us. And now to welcome today's speakers. We'll hear from Kate Pilon, Sarah Raven, and Heidi Swearing from the Museum of Anthropology at the University of British Columbia. And I will now pass that over to them. Hi, good morning. It's good morning for us over here. Um, hang on. Bear with us. We're all squished in into a little space because we wanted to make this as much as a conversation as we can and so we'll go back and forth between each other and and fill in where we each might have forgotten something. Um, it's unfortunate we can't be in the same space all together because it's really nice to have questions come in as we're kind of talking, but um, we'll we'll do what we can do. Uh, okay. So, the first thing I need to do is share my screen and then I'm going to give us two sec. Are we good? Okay. Uh to start off uh it's really important to give you some context to where we are. We're in uh Canada. So we're just uh in British Columbia. We're like a three-hour drive north of Seattle. And most importantly, uh our our seated often I talk about MOA as being this really privileged place um because we have been guided um by so many different community members at Musquam and the work that we do uh since the museum started and it's been a privilege and And honestly, all of the work that we're going to talk about now from a MOA perspective, like a staff staff perspective, uh, is only because of their guidance. The other thing that I wanted to say is everything that we're going to be talking about now is, uh, we're we're just three people. We're we're three people within this museum who have a hand to play in collections access. Uh but if we if we put pictures of everybody who works in this field in this area within our museum, your screen would be covered. Uh but also uh all of the community members and First Nations artists who have helped guide the process along the way. It it I guess all of this is to say is it takes so many different people to build a pathway forward. And what we're going to share with you today is kind of the lessons learned uh along the way and how those lessons have changed how we as a collections department specifically uh has um evolved. All right. So I'm going to start with a bit of a background here. >> Oh, and this is Kate. >> Oh, sorry. I'm >> This is Heidi. This is Sarah. >> All right. So collections access has been core to MOA for decades. As part of the University of British Columbia, MOA cares for a research collection of objects and belongings from around the world. When the museum's current building opened in 1976, it introduced the concept of visible storage. Um giving visitors unprecedented visual access to the collection. By the 1980s, MOA was hosting access visits and lending belongings to communities for activation. By the early 2000s, the increasing demands outgrew the museum's infrastructure. And in response, MOA undertook a major renewal project to enhance the physical, visual, and virtual access to its collections. Visible storage evolved into the Multiversity Gallery's ways of knowing, which is shown here, which currently provides visual access to a fifth of the collection. The renewal project also provided the opportunity to develop virtual access through the online catalog and in-house kiosks and physical access to collections was also greatly improved with new dedicated spaces for collections access and community. As part of this process, we added a community lounge and spaces that support smudging and other cultural work. The project fundamentally changed what collections access could look like at MOA and we've seen that reflected in the growth of the collections access program. Next slide. So, since reopening in 2010, MOA's collections access program has grown significantly with an emphasis on supporting access requests from community members. To illustrate the increase in demand, in 2010, MOA hosted 24 collections visits involving 95 guests who visited 805 objects. But by 2025, that had grown to 120 visits with 1,297 guests who visited almost 2,000 objects. So most visits take place in our purpose-built research rooms such as the visit shown here. This is from the Freda Ding School of Northwest Coast Art. Um, and at the same time, MOA expanded our outgoing visits as well, recognizing that many of the belongings in MOA's care continue to have important work to do in their communities. And we'll talk about this more throughout our presentation >> next. And this is um kind of a um a great example that shows how critical this uh research and this access is. So um this is William White who's a master uh chilcat weaver uh and he's simpion and he has been doing research around the world to uh really understand the how the chilcats are made there's an incredible breadth of the technology uh and he not only is researching and learning from the belongings that are scattered all over the world that have been removed from the northwest coast um but he is also teaching. So, here's Willie working in the conservation lab with his student Earl Inis. And uh we we have a few chill cats that are are here at MOA. Um and so he's he's using uh the resources that we have available to him, but more importantly, he's he's letting us know how that research has to happen. And the the bottom image at the right is one of my favorites. He's uh working in between the warps and the WS with his needles. And he's doing that because uh all of the information about the dyes and the colors are are hidden in in in beneath because everything on the outside has been faded. And typically when you think of a chilcat, it's like soft pastely. And he he needs to show his students, well actually no, the colors originally would have been vibrant and so they will start to work with with richer colors as well. The way Willie talks about it is when he started doing this work around the world many many years ago, it was a bit hard for him, right? Um to gain access to collections to be working inside of colonial institutions and working with staff who were quite reticent about giving him the access that he needed. And the the kind of the teaching moment is he would he tells a story about how he would uh hide the needles that he needed to use to get in between the warps and the we up to up his sleeve and he'd wait for the conservators and the collections managers to leave the room and then he would take them out and start doing the work. Now, uh, he uses the needles that we have in conservation and if he gets any resistance from an institution, he'll just kind of explain the work and let them know that it can be done in a safe way. Um, much as it's done here. I wanted to introduce this particular rope. Uh, we're going to talk about it later on in the presentation. Uh, it it was a commission that, uh, Willie made. Um, oh gosh, the year like 2000, quite a while ago now. I want to say maybe 2013. Um, this is a contemporary work obviously. And when uh Willie was making it, he became a bit like feeling uncomfortable with the fact that he was weaving this chill cap for a museum collection. And he kind of worked through the the processing of that. And then when it was time for it to actually come to Moa when it was completed, he was signing the paperwork with then curator Betsy Johnson, uh, who had written the grant to get the weaving done. And she asked him whether or not he wanted to be able to borrow the robe back in the future for dancing. And he said, "Well, what why would I ever want to do that? That's, you know, it's in the museum now." And his brother, who was there at the time, kind of kicked him under the table and said, sign. I want to be able to dance this or have this on the floor in the future. So, Willie did and that was the beginning of uh an amazing learning opportunity for Moa because this robe has now gone out to about 14 pot latches over the course of a decade and it's been danced by so many different people that we honestly can't keep track of it. And Willie is the one who not only decides when the robe will be worn and who will have the privilege to wear it, but he's also the one who makes decisions about the work that needs to be done to get it ready for use at pot latch. And this is Willie in the conservation lab uh steaming. He's also replaced some ties and and added a button to it to help with the closure. Uh um and you know, together we we make it happen. We wanted to quickly introduce um this uh visit out. So this is also a research visit access to collections but we also bring belongings to community as opposed to having community members come to MOA depending on the event or what the need is. This um is also a relationship story. MOA has been working um with the Litton First Nation for for for quite a while. A number of years ago, some of you may be aware, but um there was a devastating fire that hit Litton and took out 90% of the buildings within the community of Litton, but also the Linton First Nation. That town is now rebuilding and part of that rebuilding involves the excavation work for when people want to put new structures up in order to um uh reveal um where the community was before and the different pieces that are below the ground. And so, uh, there was an ask, um, at the, um, National Indigenous People's Day a couple of years ago, uh, for MOA to bring pieces from the Linton First Nation up to community as part of, uh, the learning that would happen during that day to help people who are doing the rebuilding understand why the archeological work was important as part of that building process because it does kind of slow things down a little bit. Okay. So, in the MOA publication, where the power is, more than 80 contemporary knowledge holders share their perspectives on cultural belongings in museums through conversations with Karen Duffik, Bill McClennon, and Jordan Wilson. Um, together with what we've learned through collections access visits, um, these conversations show that relationships with museum collections for community members are often complex. So many community members speak about the grief and frustration of having belongings removed from their communities. And although museums may preserve these belongings, enabling future access and study, they're often separated from the ceremonies, teachings, relationships, and communities that gave them life. And as New Hulk, language, and culture expert Clyde Talio explains, these are not simply artworks to be viewed. They are living treasures that continue to serve their communities. And at the same time, many community members also describe the value of being able to reconnect with these belongings. Haida and Quaquakiwok Weaver, Megan O'Brien speaks of the importance of studying ancestral works and honoring the makers who came before. And our work is to acknowledge these tensions uh these ongoing tensions and support meaningful access in ways that are guided by communities through hands-on access, research, ceremonial use, long-term loans to cultural centers, and repatriation. Um so this publication shown here where the power is it offers many more perspectives on this topic and is a great resource. >> Yeah it's totally a plug. Yeah you can get this through the MOA website but honestly if there was one publication that I would recommend u for museum practitioners this would be it. And it's not really that expensive either and it's Canadian dollars but it's really heavy. So, uh, one of the questions we get asked quite a bit is, "All right, so collections access is clearly important to MOA. Uh, what are you doing to support it?" And, uh, it's a really good question. Um, there are costs associated with traveling belongings to communities, but also costs of, um, uh, just coming to Vancouver, coming to Moa, right? Uh so we actually, you know, put our money where our mouths are and uh got our seed grant from the University of British Columbia to help offset some of those costs. Sarah's going to talk a little bit about visits in and how that's arranged in a second. Uh the other thing that this program does is help us um get the word out. We want and it's actually been kind of slow but uh letting people know that this is a possibility. Uh you don't just need to visit MOA and look at things through the glass. You can start online and then uh schedule a research visit and then come and actually do hands-on uh access. The other thing that has been um really important to the program is we've worked with the university to help minimize the costs for travels out. And one of the significant costs that comes up a lot is insurance. And this is a question that people have a bit. It's like, well, how do you cover the insurance? We've worked it out so that we still fall under UBC's insurance plan as long as a MOA staff person travels out with the belongings. So, it's not so much a courier trip as it is is uh we're we're bringing it up. We have to be around and then we take it home again. If there's a desire for no staff to travel with, then then the insurance costs are born by the individual who would like that belonging to come home and uh most often um that can be cost prohibitive to people. So, traveling with by staff is a good solution. This program used to run off the side of several people's desks. And as a result, it was a little bit difficult to make sure everything happened in a in kind of a fluid and successful manner. And one of the big changes that we've made recently is we have a dedicated staff person, which is Sarah, who handles all of the visits in. And I'll let her pick it up from here. Yeah, I feel very privileged to be the collections access coordinator here at MOA. Uh each visit is unique and I get to witness important moments when community can connect with their cultural belongings. Uh each visit is also a learning opportunity and I'm constantly in awe of the breadth of knowledge that is shared during these visits and uh they truly reveal how much museums can learn by engaging with community. Uh realizing the importance of community visit uh visits, MOA's indigenous collections access grant offers funding to help cover the costs for indigenous groups to travel to MOA and visit the collections. Uh covered expenses include travel and accommodation which can help offset larger costs associated with visiting the museum. People can apply through MOA's website or by phone. Uh applications are reviewed by a MOA committee to ensure they meet the eligibility eligibility requirements. Um, the majority of collections access visits are with BC local BC indigenous communities, uh, which include artists and groups studying pieces as references for their own work. Uh, individuals and families looking at ancestral belongings and groups documenting historical pieces to build community resources or a variety of other reasons. Uh we also have a significant number of international indigenous visitors uh Maui uh Inu Palestinian other groups from around the world uh as well as academic visitors, university students, museum professionals, scholars as well as uh university classes that host visits here at the museum. Uh we next >> we work with researchers to prepare lists of items uh for viewing at their visits. uh we often refer to them to our online resources such as the MOAT which is our online object catalog where all the collection records are available for browsing and searching or the RRN which is the reciprocal research network. It's an online research environment that provides access to first nations items from the northwest coast and British Columbia. It was developed in collaboration with the Musquam Indian Band, Stolo Nation Tribal Council, Umeista Cultural Society, and MOA. It allows users to search through items from MOA as well as 28 other institutions >> around the world. >> Around the world. >> Yeah. >> Uh uh since the project, we continue to place high priority on digitizing MOA collections so they're available to communities online. Um this is a visit with a Haida artist named Gustlas Rooric. Uh this visit was facilitated by myself and collections assistant Cyus Collison Robertson. Uh Gustlas visited ancestral and contemporary Haida pieces to study design and construction for his own artwork. He also visited basketetry made by his grandmother who's a H Higha weaver, Isabel Rooric. uh this event was really important. There was a lot of knowledge sharing that occurred during this visit. Uh we like to highlight that we always welcome and appreciate information being shared with us, but it's not an expectation or a requirement of visits. Um but it is appreciated. Uh during this visit, Gustlas shared details about his grandmother's basketry signature uh as well as materials used in her work and familial stories that are connected to Isabelle's pieces. Uh additional information that was shared by Gustlas uh was updated into our database for future generations to have access to. Uh during this visit, Guslass also played his grandmother's rattle and sang a hidea song. This is an important and impactful moment that highlighted how access visits can include moments of activation. Oh, so this is a visit from March 2026 when we hosted a multi-day community event with New Hawk weavers who were joined by Simshion master weaver Willie White to study new hulk weavingings called Yakano. Uh this was the first time that New Hulk weavers had seen Yakanel in person as they were lost from the community over several generations. The New Hulk had retained stories and important ancestral knowledge about the weavingings um and knew that they existed, but they didn't know where they had ended up. So the pieces once they had been located were brought to Moa from institutions across Canada. Uh the new hawk weavers studied the yakano shared stories about each of the weavingings and their ancestral connections to each of them. So if you can see they're quite detailed and each of these pieces holds a story that's really relevant to the community. Um each new hulk weaver then was able to wear one of the yakano that they had an ancestral connection to and they were sung and danced in the uh research space. This was a very powerful and emotional moment to witness the activation of this these yakano. These hadn't been worn or danced since they had left the community. So, it was a really big moment for everyone that was present. Wait, I'm just going to add something here. I think one one thing to note is we can't overemphasize how hard the work is on behalf of family and community members to find where their stuff is. It's spread so far and the connections have been severed sometimes over several generations. So one of the things that as an institution we're realizing is we actually have a bigger role to play in making sure that all the information is there as well as the spaces as as an institution for that reconnection work to happen. And uh you know we think you know our pathway as an institution might be one way but now we realize sometimes bringing a belonging home is really really difficult but MOA can be a stopover to get it almost home. So some of that original reconnection work can happen until the communities or the holding institutions are at the point where repatriations can happen should that be the decision deciding final course of action. Like I said previously Mo alwayso also hosts visits with uh indigenous groups from other parts of the world. So this is images from a group uh AU group visits the indigenous group from Japan. Um and they were visiting IU pieces from the museum. Uh also some activation occurred. Uh group members from the group had tried on some of the pieces from our collection. Uh and then the group was also inspired to perform an impromptu song and dance in the museum's great hall which is the the picture with the windows in the background there. All right. So Sarah just talked about visits at MOA, but visits home to communities are an important part of MOA's collections access program as well. So as mentioned, requests are made for many purposes, including display, replication, knowledge reclamation, and use and ceremony. And as we've researched our own institutional history, the earliest documented example we found is from November 1982 when hereditary Quackwakiwok chief and artist Bo Dick borrowed his puppet which is um shown here for use in pot latch. The puppet was performed by the cannibal dance society at the pot latch. So looking back this example shows how our thinking has changed. So while it was documented as alone in 1982 today we would consider it a visit home. The language better reflects our understanding as an institution as to what these visits are all about. >> And it also is a great example to show how crummy our documentation was way back in the 80s because there's almost no information about this occurrence. Uh this is another example. This is a a um a more recent though still a little bit older example of a visit home that we did. And it's a nice example to share because uh well it included uh BODC who has now passed uh and he was one of Moa's um most significant teachers and we really value the the time and the energy he put into working with us and letting us know how to do it in a good way. Um it also tells a story that uh includes a lot of different facets of what a visit entails. So originally the request came in uh for use for three masks to go to pot latch and the request came from the the host of the pot latch Ryan Nicholson. And immediately he designated Bo Dick to work with Mo as a designate um of the family uh because uh uh Bo knows right what a mask has to be like in order for it to be danced. So we worked with Bo, we worked with also uh Daryl Dawson who was the person who ultimately ended up wearing the mask, dancing the mask. We looked at the three masks alto together. Two of them right off the bat. B said there's just not enough here. There's there's there's pieces missing. We can't do enough modification to make it so that these can be safely danced. And if a mask can't safely be danced, if anything was to fall off on the floor, it would be a big problem for the dancer who would have to pay compensation to the host of the pot latch. So really the lesson here is the dancer uh or the designate they care the most about the condition of the mask and they are the ones who are the best judge as to whether or not it can withstand the pressures of that activation. So with two of the masks the understanding was they'd still go to pot latch but they would just be brought in and brought out onto the floor so they could be um they could be witnessed. But when Bo looked at the Thunderbird headdress, he said, "I'm not so sure. There's there's enough here, but I'm worried about the cracks at the top." And what he learned through the process is that this mask is made out of hemlock. And hemlock can take a really thin carved line. So, the wood is is is super thin. And it had been cracked and repaired before it ever came to while it was still being used. And you could see the old repairs. but if you tapped it, it it would go clickity clack. And he said, "Me, I'm not so sure." So I said, "Just let me let me try something." And so I did the superconservator trick and I used Japanese tissue paper and wheat starch paste and I just did little band-aids along those crack lines and it made the world of difference. And so he said, "Yeah, actually I think this is going to work, but it needs rigging." So that was put on me. I had to create the rigging. And he said in order for really to pay proper respect to the family in the headdress, you can see that it's missing one horn and one wing. And so he said about recreating those elements and is is usually the way all of this happened quite late in the day. In fact, the night before the plot latch. So we're here in Alert Bay, uh which is about like a seven-hour trip door to door from Moa. takes two fairies. Um the big house um uh the uh and Cornin Island is uh on a a quite um you have to take a long ferry to get to Vancouver Island which is a very big island that takes several hours to drive up and then you take a little ferry to the smaller island which is Corine Island. Uh, and the night before, um, Daryl Dawson, who's seen trying the headdress on, was there and we were finally able to do that fit and make it right. And he said, "Well, I need one more tie. I've got one around my um chin that you've provided, but I need one long one along the back that I can tie around my waist." Uh, the image on the left shows the Japanese tear uh the Japanese tissue repairs. The image on the t the top is the fitting and the image below is uh all of the pieces once complete where B has done the carving and the painting. The long fabric strips that would be applied are there and then the black which was used to cover up the the foss shape f shape was used actually to make the the rigging set. Um so once it was tried on it could be heat set so it was a little bit tighter. And then we worked well into the evening to make sure all of the pieces could be connected together before the pot latch that started about 9:30 the next morning. And then um I'll let you read this on your own, but um as museum staff, it was really important to be able to witness the headdress that had been at MOA for so long um since leaving the community without having done the work that it was really meant to be doing. uh and and we try to uh make sure that as many different staff people as possible can attend these events to witness so that there's no misunderstanding about how important this work is to MOA and it is really um core to our institution. when anything that has gone out for activation returns back to MOA, all of the elements are retained and we note them um as changes, but also it's important for them to be on display for the public in order to show the ongoing life. All right, so this is a screenshot of our uh elections management system which is Mimsy. So just to show you that every interaction with a belonging is documented in MOA's collections management system creating a record of its care, use and continued life. So when a belonging is used, modified or cared for, we update documentation as needed. This may include revising physical descriptions or changes in condition, creating conservation treatment reports, documenting modifications, and creating an event record to document its use. which as we've just told you looking back at our records from 1980s, it's very important to record this information. Um, this documentation is important for both MOA and community. It ensures that there's a clear record of what was done and by whom, when, and why it was done. And documentation, sorry, documentation may include both digital records within our collections management system and physical hard copy records such as condition reports. The other thing we've given you a link of this so you can read all of the um the details yourself. But uh what we've done as part of our learning is in this recognition that community access and visits home simply aren't loans. We've gone back to our loans policy and we've stripped them out. Our loans policy is pretty, you know, it's legal. It's heavy. There's some jargon in there. And the visits home, you know, there's no paperwork that gets signed. There's no agreement in place. It's just an understanding that the belonging will be brought by staff and then it's brought back again. And so we make sure that uh we provide this information readily available on our website so that we can refer people to it if we're not available to pick up a phone and answer those questions. And then this is kind of uh another story that we're going to whip through as we're running out of time. Uh I warned you we can talk. This is again sort of a full uh circle story that really shows how much learning we have to do as an institution. Uh this is a button blanket that um uh was made by Lucy Dawson and her daughter Ruby Dawson came to MOA a few years ago now uh once she had found where it was to say that she would like to move through a repatriation process in order to use it for her family's pot latch that was occurring in a few weeks time. So we we let her know that absolutely we can start that process but um there's no way we would be able to move through an actual full repatriation in such short of time. The collections here at the museum are owned legally according to Canadian law by the University of British Columbia and while the process is there it still takes a bit time to shove it through the different offices that are required. So we said uh that's that's going to be tough but what we could do is we could just we could just come we could bring it to the pot latch and uh the response back was one of surprise like really you can do that we said sure we can and also did you know that there are 12 other belongings held here at MA from your family and Ruby had no idea so that uh started our process. Yeah. So, this is an example of a spreadsheet that we would create whenever we get a request for a visit or a visit home. Um, this spreadsheet just supports uh conversations between community members and MOA staff and it helps us track everything that we are working on. Um, it's really important that we include images of the requested belongings. It helps everybody to review and discuss the items. And the spreadsheet will continue to grow and capture additional information uh to support safe access um including information about pesticide residue which we add if it's already known and other considerations such as condition. And then just a little note, I mean this a big conversation about pesticides residues, but we know this is absolutely an issue for all collections. And just uh to say that we have done some preliminary investigation about the levels here and we make uh that ongoing investigation part of of access requests. All right. So after Ruby had learned that there were additional family belongings at MOA, she chose to come for a visit. So during the visit, she shared memories and knowledge connected with the belongings and it strengthened our understanding of their histories and the relationships. Um this visit provided a space for Ruby to spend time with the belongings that she remembered from her home and her childhood um in person. And it also provided her the opportunity to wear her mother's um button blanket as it's shown here. The politch itself was uh quite an amazing event um hosted by Cecil Dawson. Uh it, you know, we've previously talked about the work that we usually do at MOA to um make sure that the rigging is set, the lines are strong, uh everything's fine for dancing. Uh we like plans. Museum people like plans. But one thing we've really learned is you have to be okay with having no plan. You have to be able to let go and understand that it's really you're not the one with the authority to make decisions about any of the belongings that come back to family. Here, Cecil Dawson decided that all of the museum boxes that we had brought up would be brought onto the floor. Um, and family members who didn't already have a role to play with within the pot latch were asked to open the boxes and process them on the floor so everybody there could witness. Once we put the belongings back into the back room, we went back to our seats and then we got the tap to come down because there was a question from the family and the question was whether the three masks that we had brought without previously having talked about them could be danced and so the answer that we gave was well I not sure what do you think. So, we immediately went to the back room and were working with the dancers or the designates who were helping get the regalia ready to be to be danced. And it was they who were testing the lines, uh, removing the cedar skirts that were no longer appropriate or strong enough to be danced, reapplying new cedar skirts that somebody had on a different mask, and in the end, it was confirmed that they were comfortable with all three being danced. Flipping to another story. Um, this is just an example of uh how sometimes we we aren't always able to say yes. Uh, we got a last minute call from a chief who was planning a family pot latch and uh we was looking to borrow this set of rattles for us to bring them out up. And we immediately did the the pesticide residue analysis and we had to let him know that they were heavily contaminated. Uh, and we were all like, "Oh, no." But when we made the call, he said, "Thank you so much for the information. Uh, I really appreciate it. There's no way I'm going to put my dancers at risk." And we all had to be okay with that. Coming back to this amazing weaving um by William White. Uh Willie is here working on the next piece of regalia which is the apron. He's also working on some cuffs. The idea being that now there will be a fuller set of regalia here for going out to pot latch to go along with the robe. Uh it's um been an amazing uh learning experience for us all. And what we wanted to leave you with is uh there's a link. I'm gonna click on it. It should be in the chat which will connect you. Are you seeing this? Probably not. Hey. Okay. So, what I'm going to do, I'm going to stop screen sharing. Okay. And then I'm gonna screen share something else and this will be pretty quick. Yeah. Perfect. So, the link is going to take you to Moa's website where there's more story about the robe and the apron that are being made. In the end, down here is a really cool video that we encourage you to go back to. Which is the road being activated. We'll just play in a second. So, uh, yeah, there's so much information there. We hope everybody will go and check it out. >> That's it. That's it. That's it. >> Fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing so many of these wonderful stories and showing us how Boa approaches this work. We had a few more questions that um kind of tied into some of the themes that you touched on here about um the certainly through the guidelines. Um because there were a few questions asking about you know what is the paperwork process like for a visit home or you know um what kinds of steps do you take prior to providing access um to you know are there any guidelines that you offer specifically for people in terms of handling or things like that and kind of having a little bit more discussion about this of like either you know can you find that information in the guidelines how might people go about creating guidance that they're comfortable with to provide that. >> There's a there's a lot we could say here. In fact, when Sarah started, she said, "Do you have this stuff written down anywhere for for visits home?" It's like, "No, it's pretty obvious what you have to do." Well, no, it's not obvious. One thing as simple as make sure you book a car that's big enough to fit the belonging or the box that the belonging has to go in, which is like, "Oh, yeah, that, you know, we should write that stuff down. Uh but maybe Sarah you could speak a little to something that's quite um practical which is uh yeah um when there's a community visit here at MOA something as simple as do you have to wear gloves is is addressed. Yeah. So I always provide visitors when they come with the information that we have about pesticides for each of the items that are that are they're going to be viewing. Uh, and I let them know if something hasn't been tested so that they can use their own discretion and wearing gloves or not. We do have a handwashing station in the room so that visitors can wash their hands before and after visits. Um, but we really try to leave it up that choice up to the visitors as to whether they want to use gloves or not or handle things or not. Um, because it's it's their time, it's their space, uh, they have the right to access things and handle it. Um but we do also let them know about the history of contaminant use and that if if we don't know we we don't know. So there is a risk involved in that. Uh but we do go over proper care and handling um for the most part with community visits. They know how to handle things. Uh they usually know a lot more knowledge than we do. So while we kind of go through the steps, it's you know they have more experience usually with handling the these types of materials than we do. So >> yeah. And this kind of ties into another question that we received asking about um if you have any limitations on which objects can be accessed or handled. Obviously, there's a safety component here. You're letting people make an informed decision about that, but otherwise, you know, are there especially, you know, this ties into another question that was asked if there was a difference between how historic or contemporary object loans are dealt with? also >> uh funny we were just talking about this saying this this question is going to come up and that's why we tried to include in our presentation both contemporary and historic pieces and we we treat them in the same way except there's less work that has to be done for contemporary pieces because they're simply stronger uh and and that conversation about is something strong enough uh we're just we're just at the table right like we're as a conservator I'll bring information to the table. I'll also bring some technical expertise about what perhaps I can do. But usually there's the dancer or the designate will be doing just as much work in terms of recreating missing elements. Um what else? There's so many different parts to that. Can you repeat the first part of the question there about the limitations? >> Just are there any limitations to what people can have access to? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have an answer for that. >> Yeah. So it kind of depends. uh we do have items in the collection that are culturally sensitive. So we would make sure that people have the right uh permissions within their community or family to access those pieces. Um so when I get a request for something like that, I would refer back to the team and we would have a conversation and make sure that the right people are contacted to ensure that that that can be seen by somebody. >> Yeah, there's different access protocols in place for different belongings that are deemed culturally sensitive. Uh and then also for in some circumstances uh for say a researcher visit if something is in the condition or um the potential contaminations and things those are also things that we would have a a conversation about >> before a visit to make sure that >> and the other thing that's important to note is um particularly for visits home the it's it's the community and the families that work about the rights to access and and use those belongings and and that is always work that happens in the community and uh it's not that just anybody can call up the museum and and ask to use a robe. No, you there has to be um rights and privileges associated with with that connect your connection to it. And that actually perfectly ties into another question we received. Um, and I know we talked about this a little bit about when there are differing opinions um about how items um can be treated or preserved or repatriation. So if there are multiple decision makers within a family for example um if you have conflicting opinions about you know people who might within that family might be interested in repatriation versus people who um may be more interested in having MOA continue to have that item in their collections of how do you help kind of what is your role in those decisions which I know we talked a little bit about but um and how the museum handles their legal responsibility versus kind of your community responsibility as well. >> I know there's a lot >> I mean for repatriation you need to have the ownership right like you're you're not going to just be returning. So if there's community are not agreeing on certain things, you would have to wait until it is worked out who actually has the rights, who owns it, right? Like who it should actually be going back to. So I mean that's a very large conversation. >> Mhm. >> Um >> yeah, for sure. And I think but the important thing to note is that um MOA steps back and and most often there's a signal saying we need a bit more time to work this out. we'll get back to you when we've decided the path the proper pathway and and sometimes those conversations uh can take years. Uh and sometimes in some we we have some examples where the end result is actually no uh we're not going to do repatriation. We're going to do a long-term loan because those conversations can't be worked out and we don't want to deal with legal ownership on like from the community side. Yeah, I think that's really helpful to kind of frame your responsibility is in here and how you can invest that decision- making in the community. >> And and the other thing to note is that every single situation is is is different, right? It's absolutely on a case- by case basis. >> Yeah, we had a question also. Um, I know you shared a little bit of the documentation and what that looks like on your end when you're documenting change um from community use of objects. Um, and we had a question asking a little bit about um, how is it different from when you deal with other types of loans that might not be indigenous or, you know, how do you define like what are there differences in language? Are there differences in how you describe change to the object um, based out of changes that happened from a visit home or from >> Yeah, totally. So, so we have our institutional loan process and then we have our community business. So, a loan to an institution, it's like, oh yeah, we're going to we're going to we're going to just behave like a museum. We're going to document things as any other museum would, right? And and the legal agreements are just like any other museum because we have a legal obligation to do that work. And we know that there there's a whole other sweet suite of rules across the world for museums for community visits home. It's different, right? So could you imagine if we asked for the relative humidity and temperature charts for the big house? Like that would just be crazy. If you did, you'd be saying we just don't do community loans, right? So um you're you're going into it. That's why we separated them. It's it's not alone. It's not a lone policy thing. We talk about them in different ways. We use different language because they are different. They are completely different. I don't know if have I been clear enough. They are different. >> Yeah. And I think that's a great um conversation overall about how we've had a couple of comments in the chat from people sharing about how they like the term visit home or you know thinking about the language that you use specifically in your documentation to describe it as change versus damage. And I think that's a great conversation for a lot of people to have within their institutions to talk about how they can reframe their language and reframe their narrative around uh you know potential impacts from community user activation. We have found that language is one of the most useful tools that we have in changing museum practice. Once you change the language, people are like, "Oh, right. Okay." And sometimes you slip up, but the intent is there, right? Uh you don't have to be perfect every time. >> Yeah. And I think that the desire to show change I think is something that um I know we talked a little bit about this and I was kind of hoping that you would have an opportunity to talk a little bit about um building relationships and building trust and um how you go about and how that impacts different aspects of the work of in terms of like documenting and saying you know we have images that are protected because we have to ask for permission to show those images or um when you're talking about documenting stories that people share when they're visiting at the institution and of wanting to add that to the record of that object. But then again, kind of that discussion right about who has rights to know certain things about things and how do you share information in ways that help build trust. >> So, one of the things that I can just say and then you guys can add is um MOA is a teaching museum. We're like Canada's oldest and largest teaching institution and we are committed to teaching like we have different internship programs. We teach museum studies courses and so the work for example um that we did with Bod Dick is um uh really woven into a lot of our teaching because he also believed and Willie as well another great example that what we have learned as a museum should be taught to the people who are trying to learn about how to work in museums. So we're priv privileged to share those stories uh and others just aren't ours to share. um which is and we talked a lot about you know um what can we actually talk about in this in this talk what what can we give you of value and the most value we can give is just talking about how we have an institution has h how we've evolved and changed over time with the lessons that we have learned and doing this work and and really taking the guidance from uh the different community members and artists who have helped us along the way and you know once you understand that And it's like it's easy to step back and say uh yeah this this this we have so many wonderful stories to tell but there it's none of our business to share that with you. >> I was just going to say and Sarah touched on this earlier that during visits you know people might share information but you don't just >> you're not sitting there writing it down. >> You're not just taking notes on everything. you're waiting and if someone wants you to add this, you know, say you've got it wrong in the database, which we recognize with every visit that >> we have so many mistakes in our um documentation and if they're willing to share that and they want you to update it, then we will. But, you know, you don't just take that information. >> Yeah, it's the the visits are very impactful. Uh I feel like they're it I'm just learning constantly. So whether it's a bead worker who's describing like the details of how things are done and what the the like each of the images mean and all of these kind of things like I'm constantly absorbing knowledge but you also have to be present because I think all of these interactions are really about relationship building and that's a really important part of being trust like that that trust building is that if you're sitting there writing notes the whole time and not engaging or being respectful of that time that person's time and energy And it's taking away from that moment as well. You know, that uh being present, being receptive. Um I I try to always say that I'm I'm I'm here to listen and learn. If you're willing to share, if you don't want to, you want to sit quietly and just do your own thing in the room, that's also okay. Uh just giving that space for whatever needs to happen for that person. It's really their time. It's their space. Um and it's their experience. and I'm just there to let it happen. Um, but uh if people want to engage in in that way and share, then I'm I'm all ears. I'm ready to listen. And I try to then we'll decompress after and write down as much as I can. um or to you know and and then make sure that it's appropriate to to put in the system and and I I always pass it off of to to Kate or to Heidi and make sure that you know if something's uh you know familiar names or things that maybe are more private information then then it's recorded but it doesn't have to go into the system. It doesn't have to go publicly anywhere. So, >> yeah, I love the shared responsibility, the shared decision making, and the willingness to be flexible. I think Heidi, I know you hit that on the head earlier of like we love to have a plan. We love to know exactly what's going to happen and instead kind of being present and allowing that relationship and that the growth of that relationship to dictate how things move forward, I think is really fantastic. Um there was another question that was kind of ties into um some of the topics we talked about earlier where it was saying for objects that maybe there was not as great historic recordkeeping um you know if they have more of an unknown provenence of how they came into the museum's collection um you know whose responsibility is it to do the research? What? And essentially my follow-up question then is how can museums and collecting institutions um be collaborative and help present information to people and how can they be good partners in trying to provide people with as much information as possible. >> That would be you. >> Uh I am the collections access coordinator and provenence researcher at the museum. It's a very long title. Uh I also do provenence research on the collections. Uh to date most of the research I do is to support repatriation requests. Uh I think if there were time to do provenence research on all the collections, it would take a lot more people than just me. Um so that's a capacity thing. Uh the curators also don't do provenence research. Um and you know that's a that's a time issue I think as well. So if they've got an exhibition that they're working on, they'll work on, you know, with community and do research into those pieces. Um, but yeah, it's takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of time to do provenance research. >> I was going to say just in regards of access though, if you're asking about uh if someone would request something for a visit home that doesn't have a lot of provenence, that's not usually what happens. Usually people would already know that they have a link to something. So I wasn't sure if that's where you were. >> Yeah, sometimes and sometimes not. There's been situations where um there have been um indigenous interns at MOA throughout the years and part of their work is researching their family's belongings and they track them down to this museum where they happen to be. >> Yeah. >> Which is amazing. And I think you hit upon like a really key role that I think collecting institutions can play too of being that kind of way point for other things of the relationships collecting institutions have between each other can help facilitate understanding and knowledge and your knowledge of what other like thinking about you know some of the resources you were sharing that have multiple collecting institutions participating in them. I think that's another great way that um helping create those connections for people to find potentially the next step on their provenence journey or the next step in their research. Um we're unfortunately just about at time. I want to thank Heidi, Sarah, and Kate so much for sharing their expertise with us today and the fantastic work that they're doing at MOA. I hope it has inspired you to look at this work in new ways and um you know see how that might feel right for your institution or your community. Um and I'm also going to share really quickly a link in the chat uh for a survey. You'll also receive the link for the survey in um you'll get kind of an afteraction email that'll remind you about the recording and um also ask you to share your thoughts about this program and any other kind of topics you're interested in for COC care. Um so definitely encouraging you to share your thoughts on the today's program and COC care through our survey. Um thanking our presenters again for their time and all of you for joining and your wonderful questions today. Thank you. Thanks for having