Building Financially Resilient Kenyan Businesses | Entrepreneurship Tuesday

capture that scenario by taking financial literacy training to schools. As we open these accounts for these children, we try and also inculcate that culture of savings. So, we tell them the benefits of savings and what it means to set targets and goals for themselves at that young age and just take them through what financial literacy training enables them to do so that they can have a financially resilient future. So, we start that journey and we have a product specific for that category. As they grow and reach around 18, uh and now they are no longer under the guardianship of their parents or guardians, we now move them to what we call step account. Basically, just stepping out in life. I'm 18. I have money to getting into adulthood. Yes. to take responsibility. This are the era you were being taken care of. Right now at 18, you're starting to think of how do I take care of myself? So, that's a very definite step in life. There are those who venture into business, there are those who continue with school and start to do other things. So, that step account um is one of the good products we have which enables the youth to save and also have access to their funds. When you look at our setup in terms of the digital network, the infrastructure we [music] have, they can be able to do business anywhere in the country wherever they are. So, they are not restricted to the main towns because of also the agency network that I had mentioned earlier. over 700 agents in town. I think I believe they are scattered everywhere in Kenya. >> [laughter] >> Go to any corner in Mandera, you'll be able to see one agent and you'll find a sticker of Postbank agent, and it's usually a relief when you go around the country and you're able to see that these financial services are able to reach >> Well, some something you're familiar with they say, "Ah, this is my home. I'm here finally, something you're familiar with." >> Yes, yes. And not just that, also through the digital products on the phone, we have enabled access to your funds through the phones. So, be it feature phones or the nice-looking iPhones >> An iPhone, yeah. >> [laughter] >> that you have. So, you don't have to worry if you have a Kabambe. You still have a USSD code for you to be able to operate. So, you can see we turn up all that journey so that we are walking this journey with you from that time when you were young to this time when you >> Yeah, adult. >> As you grow into adulthood and face various challenges, we also now give you more products, better products now to enable you achieve your goals. For those who are employed or those who have access to funds >> Mhm. >> which come in frequently. We have products like say by the one. Uh what we try to encourage our customers is as you continue working and as you continue doing business, commit to some amount to set aside because if you look at the Kenyan society, many people have credit. I was just looking at the papers today morning. The headline, I think it was in the star. 28 million Kenyans have started for us. >> [laughter] >> I would love it to say 28 million Kenyans have started saving, but where am I? >> Mhm. >> The good thing is the Hustler Fund is structured is there's a mandatory savings component in it. Yeah, you can see the way the government is trying just to inculcate that culture. It's not just credit, but also continue thinking about savings. So, what are we doing about it? And that's the space we are trying to fill so that we can grow a rich and a resilient youth who are well educated in matters money and who are well educated and are aware of the needs that there's something that you can do. You don't not need credit all the time. You can as well save and save and start your business. So that we change that narrative where people are so reliant on the credit. The credit is supposed to just come and boost whatever it is that you already done. It's not [clears throat] supposed to be really Yeah, you need [clears throat] to have some little equity in your business so that you feel the pain. But so that by the time you're borrowing you know that there's a commitment, yes. >> Now maybe for the young couples, maybe for young young young youth that just getting into marriage, maybe can you advise them on a joint account? >> Definitely, yes. Definitely, yes. I think two incomes are better than one. And when you have goals that you've agreed together as a family, it's much better than one. For families who come together and put their funds together they're able to plan very well for the future of their children because you're not relying on one particular uh spouse to be the one to continue >> the breadwinner. >> Really, yeah, being the breadwinner and carrying all this I can say burden by themselves. So a burden shared is a burden lessened. >> lessened yeah. >> Yeah, so it's it's quite critical that if you're able to reach together as two people you'll find your journey in life being easier and better. And that's the same concept with the chama. When you come together it's the lessons the burden. And also it challenges you. You set higher goals than what you'd have achieved as an individual. So when you're two of you, you can aim higher. But if each one of you is working each each other's journey >> Yeah. >> Yeah, even it's easier to give up when you're alone. You say, "Okay, >> Definitely. >> ah I cannot even keep going to do this. I'm done with it." >> Yeah. Yeah. So, the journey can be very long. So, you say, "If you want to walk far, >> Mhm. >> walk with people. >> Yeah, exactly. >> [laughter] >> walk alone. >> Walk alone. >> Yeah. So, all those things that you really encourage that >> type of unity. >> Yeah, that unity. Yeah. >> Now, you mentioned something about going to schools, maybe educating the young kids there about financial literacy, where to invest invest money, when to start your savings, but maybe do you have any other types of how you get your youth to be financially maybe literate about money. >> Yes, um we also go to the universities and we hold town halls with them, discuss what they need to do in terms of their financial journey. And it's quite interesting when you go to these universities. It's when you [clears throat] realize we missed that gap that age bracket of people who were in primary school. >> Yeah. >> It comes out very clearly because some of the questions they start asking when they are at the university, it's quite interesting. And then you realize there's a big gap that needs to be filled. So, that's why we've gone backwards to try and bring them and on board them at that age. Under the university, we also talk to them because there are some who are doing business. There's some who are already selling cakes. We have very nice testimonials of university students who are doing something in the university. There's some who are doing business, selling chapati and things like that. And they've walked that journey. And because they are disciplined, they're able to We have very interesting testimonials of people who are in these universities who've done these businesses of trying to meet the needs of other students while at the same time addressing their education. They're still attending their classes, but during their free time >> They can do anything >> in this business. So, it's quite interesting when you talk to them and tell them this is a journey that they can achieve much more. And you can see them transitioning and becoming better savers and better business people and growing into small SMEs as they grow. So, they grow even beyond now the university and reach out to other sectors of the society. They say people who are baking cakes cuz we have one who a lady who was baking cakes. You can see now she's going beyond the university. Now she's dealing with the whole university community, the workers there, the professors and the lecturers. She already stepped out and reached out to them because of something that she was doing it and she was passionate about. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Just that encouragement and walk with them that journey and tell them, "Yeah, this is how you do it." >> Mhm. >> But we really insist and tell them, "This financial journey, unless you have that discipline, continue saving, >> Mhm. >> you're going to fail because you have to put money to get money back. >> Of course. >> Yeah. So, if you eat it, >> You cannot put zero investment and expect to get returns from it. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> So, it's a journey that we try and tell them it's easier >> Mhm. >> to save and then maybe when you want to scale up, that business is when now you go out there and start borrowing. But you must have something that you have so that when you're scaling up, you're just adding on to what you already have. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, instead of people doing the other way around when they want to go and borrow to do a business, most of the times the banks will not really look at you very keenly if that's the journey >> No, okay. >> Yeah, it'll be much easier for this person who has a credit history. And that's what why we signed up an MOU with the youth fund so that we are able to show a track record of savings for you so that by the time you're going to borrow from them, uh you're you're talking from a point of saying, "I've already started this journey. I know how to take care of this money. So, even if you lend me a little bit more, I'm able to take care of it much more. So, there's a history, there's a discipline already built, and there's a journey that uh you're walking, and all of this other fund is going to do is to lift you up more. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Actually, that was my next question. I was I was going to ask maybe in a scenario where just related to that, just going to ask you maybe in a scenario where I've come to you as the managing director. I've told you I have this idea. I'm doing this, but in my in my bed seater or in my in my single room or in my one bedroom, I'm selling clothes, but I want to get away from this place and start my own uh maybe a small enterprise. I want to to to move away from selling at my home. I want to to to build my own shop and start selling it at a larger and maybe a kind of larger level. Maybe uh can you walk me through the steps the best way you can tell me? >> As I said, one of the best ways is uh you need to have that passion of what you're doing and understand it. Most of the people rush into things because they are clear >> [laughter] >> And they have no clue what this business entails. Uh and I'll take you to that journey of this lady who does cakes. She was passionate about it. You can imagine she was just making cakes for her siblings, for her family, and it grows into a business because you make it so well and you're passionate about it and you like it, and you can grow that business out of it. >> Mhm. >> It's not being forced on them. It is something that they've grown with. So, one of the key ingredients for success is you need to have that passion. The other key thing is understanding. What is it that I'm I'm doing? Where am I going to source my materials? Uh the best quality so that you have that touch with your environment so that by the time you're getting into that business, you're already understanding that environment of yours. So, by the time you're having this conversation um with your manager, you'll be saying, "This is a business. I've already understood it. I've already practiced it. But now I want to take it to the next level. So, one of the key things is ask yourself, are you really making profits? Or are you just taking money from your left pocket, putting it in your right without anything in between? >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Or you are borrowing and uh you end up spending and uh utilizing more than what you are having. So, one of the key things is just to continue monitoring. My savings account, is it growing? Am I removing from my savings more to spend on this business so that the business is eating me? Because business is not easy. Uh as you scale up, there are other things that start coming up. You may not be there 24/7, so you may need to employ somebody to help you. You need to start paying rent. You need to start paying at least Maybe when you are living in your small business, the way you started in your room, you're only paying for rent for that room. Suddenly, you have to pay two rents. One for your room and the other side. So, your scenario really changes. And most people usually Most people usually uh fail in that regard because they're operating in a small area. When they're scaling up, they did not do uh proper planning. So, one of the key things we'll ask is have you planned well for all these scenarios? What are the risks? Yes, you're already able to reach out to these 10 20 people in your business and they were really supported you and you're doing well. When you scale up, you need now to see 100 or 200 people coming to your business. Where are they? So, you can't just wake up and say I'm able to sell to 200 people and when you look around, they're doing the same business. Let's say like matatu business. Everyone is doing it. So, what is it that you'll provide that will make a difference for you. William Makanga has been maybe looking neat. You will put more music in your matatu. >> What is this that >> be unique. You have to tweak it a little bit. >> Yes, you have to tweak it so that people look and see that there's something unique about that brand. So, as as you engage in that conversation, you're able to really ask somebody, "What is it that you're seeing yourself being in the future?" And most of the family businesses that you've seen grow is just because of that. I've seen a few guys who have been in hardware. They're passionate about it. And suddenly, within 10, 15 years, 20 years, they have grown into five, six hardwares spread along one area. And you will and you will see that they've grown because they've been able to make a good name for themselves. They're trusted by the community. So, there are all those things that come together. That trust. As you build your business, are you still able to deliver on the promises that you're making? Or the business will grow out of uh beyond your control. And what are you going to do once it goes beyond your control? Because once you set up three, four, five shops, it means you have to start employing a good manager. A good manager. So, now it's more of managing people who are managing a business [laughter] rather than even thinking about the business. But usually, you will not struggle if you're already involved in that business as it as it grew. But if you're just wanting to scale up and say, "Okay, I'm moving from my small little business here, and I want 10, 20 businesses across town." Uh it will be a challenge. >> a challenge, yeah. >> It will be a challenge. >> You must be prepared. You have You have to to understand the risk that you'll take when starting that business. But I just want to get the other segment to talk about women now in business. You have talked about the lady from the cakes. Now, she She has grown. She has stepped up from where she was. She's another different level. Maybe What are some of the initiatives the bank has introduced to improve access to credit to to women owned businesses. >> Okay. >> For us we basically savings bank. But what we've done we've realized our our customers also want to grow and need access to various other products. What we've done is we've signed partnerships with other institutions which offer these services. Like Mombasa we have signed up with uh uh uh uh credit uh giving institution. So people who are in chamas in Mombasa are able to reach out to this organization and we complement each other. We offer the banking services and this uh I can call it a microfinance comes on board to walk on that other journey of offering credit. The good thing is they rely on the records that we have. So that partnership enables us to grow and then we hand over the credit side to this partner who is able to walk along that journey. But we still retain the savings business on our side. And all the funds and everything are channeled because they will continue maintaining that account. So why we like it like that is because uh we don't want to be a jack of all trade. We know we are good in savings. These guys are good in credit. Let's team up. You give the credit and then as we'll have already molded this person into this stage by the time they are coming to you. >> Very disciplined. By the time they come to you they know how to to to manage even manage them their funds that you give them. >> So we have had that partnerships across the country. We have partnerships with FinCredit. We have with Yehu. Uh and uh Premier Credit and these are institutions which have seen the potential that our customers have because they've already done the savings bit and if they need that boost, then they'll come on board to assist that journey. So, we are sort of an incubator uh bank where we incubate you. Once you start to change out >> It's like uh grooming you to be the perfect entrepreneur. >> entrepreneur who is well versed and very financially literate and who is able now to really follow a disciplined path in terms of growing their business because you already have that financial literacy training that we've already given it to you at the beginning. >> And maybe how how is the Postbank maybe addressing some of the financial barriers that women are facing? Now, when talking about these barriers, can you maybe elaborate some of the barriers we are talking about here? >> Uh as we say, women usually have a challenge. Usually, the breadwinner of the house is the man. >> And at times, they will feel the lady should not be engaging in any other activity. So, what we've done is as part of the financial literacy training, we take you as an individual and talk to you. So, the ladies come and we tell them this is what they need to do cuz the man may fall sick, something may happen. So, you need to be also be there for that situation. So, in terms of that risk management, we talk to the ladies and tell them you need to also have an account. And as you do your business, separate it also from these other businesses so that you are able to track so that you are not always asking for money from your I can't call it either parents or husband or whoever it is is supporting you. So, we try and create that independent lady and tell her this is what you need to do. In terms of growing your business, you need to start saving. So, look at your sources of income. What is this that you are able to earn and what is this that you are able to save? So, out of the little that you get, at least push yourself and save 20 to 30%. So, that financial literacy training is quite critical for this lady because at times they've not really been socialized. As I said, ladies usually left behind. The men usually are the ones who are the decision makers and >> [laughter] >> they go. So, you normally find that you forget about this lady. So, what you've done also is create a product specific for ladies. It's called [clears throat] Waridi. And this is aimed at enabling the ladies enter into this financial services sector. And we have put barriers of entry. We've removed those barriers of entry and with as little as 500 shillings, they're able to open an account. We also enable them get a Visa card. A Visa card will enable them use any outlet that is has a Visa logo to either withdraw or do purchases. So, there's that financial freedom for this lady. So, we have put in this product and when you look at the charges, they are very minimal. We do not even charge monthly fees for these accounts so that if somebody is putting 1,000 or 2,000 and they come down one year down the line, they still get it. So, we are not going to have any monthly charge or anything. So, we is part of that encouragement for people to be able to save and also to know that their money is safe and it's not going to get um depreciated. Another thing that we have is we pay interest on these accounts. The interest So, it's no longer just savings, but you also have a component of interest that comes in. And the good thing is our savings as as a bank, we have this moratorium from the government where interest that you earn is tax-free. So, if we pay you 100 shillings as interest, you get 100 shillings. So, there's no withholding tax to remove the 50 shillings out of it. So, if it's 100, it's 100. So, those are some of the incentives we have. And once you combine that, it enables um women to have access to financial services much easier, and uh entry into the financial system is being made very easy. You can go to our agents and also we have sales people who can come and walk that journey with you. Or you can come to any of our 96 branches spread across the country. And when you look at those numbers, 96 branches, we also are I say top 10 in terms of the number of branches that uh there spread out around the country. In terms of the banks, we're top 10 in terms of branches. And you're top 10 in term of numbers of customers who we have because our access is quite easy. Our products are quite easy to understand and to use. And accessibility using the digital platform is very easy. So, once you combine that and you have this now specific aspect for ladies, it really makes it very easy for ladies to progress in their financial uh services journey. >> [clears throat] >> Now, maybe uh let's say if uh this were the uh an audit finding, maybe what would you maybe flag as the biggest gap? >> In terms of >> in terms of maybe the gaps that people are not seeing really cuz you've mentioned a lot of good ideas, mentioned uh services that you're providing for the ladies mostly. Maybe what's the gaps that you know people are not uh maybe noticing a lot? >> Yeah, I think it's more of uh the education bit. I think that's what we see as a big gap. I think uh it's easier uh that is say when you look at the success of something like Hustler, it's because of the credit aspect which has really been amplified. So the savings journey uh comes up as a last sort of last resort. It's not really amplified that much. I think it's only of late that the president has really hyped up the aspect of savings. So the education bit is quite critical. So there is a big gap there. And uh one of the key things we do wish to do is to be able to reach out to all the schools uh in the country. We may not have the manpower as an institution, but at least we need to have some curriculum built around it. How do we educate our children? Because we don't want them when they are 18 is when now they are coming to Yeah, we want to have a a society Yeah, they know that if they get 100 shillings automatically >> You know, that's the discipline that I think a lot of people should be going with cuz if you have that type of discipline ever since you are young, man, maybe if you have 100 shillings save 30 bob from that 100 shillings, that means when you get older you you're getting more money. You have that sort of discipline, that means you are saving even more money. >> Yeah. In fact, that's one of the other gap that I wanted to talk about, that lack of discipline. And as you say, the young people today is yolo, you live only once. >> [laughter] >> I make 1,000 bob, I want to eat it. I make a million, I want to eat [clears throat] it. >> [laughter] >> Irrespective of what you eat today. So they need to be able to have that uh not going to fall into that self-gratification. They need to have that kind discipline of saying there's a tomorrow. >> Yeah, there's a tomorrow. >> There's a tomorrow and there's a day after tomorrow. Yeah, so if you're able to think about tomorrow then you're able to say, "Okay, today I will not eat everything. Mhm. There's a seed to be planted and >> it needs to be able to grow into something that's going to be productive. So, put something aside, put that seed aside, let it grow, and you'll see success coming through. >> Mhm. >> But if you're going to eat it everything, tomorrow you're starting from zero. >> Zero. Zero. >> Let's say you are a boda guy and you earn 500 shillings a day. >> Mhm. >> You eat it at the end of the day, then tomorrow you're back >> You're back to zero. You have to start and then you get that 500 shillings again. Then the other the following day >> back to zero. >> Yeah. >> And if there's somebody who is there and who's been socialized into savings, >> Mhm. >> when they get the 500, >> Mhm. >> irrespective of what they do, they will put 100 or 200 shillings aside. They'll go home with the 300, eat it, >> Mhm. >> and maybe finalize. That person in the end of the month will be very different [clears throat] from this person. >> From that part, yeah. >> True. True. >> Cuz at the end of the month, you'll find this person has let's say 300 shillings times 30. >> Mhm. >> You'll have 9,000 bob. >> Mhm. >> And then after 6 months, you'll find him buying his own motorbike, and you're like, >> And you're like, "Hey, how? How did you get this money?" >> [laughter] >> You'll find that maybe that person >> Yeah. >> and more future looking >> Mhm. >> [clears throat] >> I want to own a motorbike in the next 2 3 months. >> Mhm. >> And that journey has to start today. >> Mhm. >> It's not tomorrow. >> Mhm. >> Cuz if you eat the 500 today, tomorrow the day after you'll You'll still eat it. >> [laughter] >> But if you say, "Okay, I'll put aside and forget about it." >> Mhm. >> Tomorrow, put it aside. >> Mhm. >> And if you have that discipline and you're partnering with a bank like us, >> Mhm. >> Postbank and you say, "Okay, each day, irrespective of what happens, I'll put 200 shillings minimum. >> Mhm. >> If anything I make more, then I'll put more. >> Mhm. >> But at a minimum, I want to be putting 200 200 every day. >> Mhm. >> And you'll find that person becoming quite different in 1 year, 2 years time. >> Mhm. Yeah, because they will have something that they've saved and something that they can fall back to and they become very resilient because they have a backing. These are the person who spent it all. There is no backing behind it. If anything happens, they start running around saying "Idea, save me. Idea, save me." Yeah. >> Cuz when things go south, huh? >> Yeah. >> If you don't have a backup plan, you'll start going to other people, huh? >> Yeah. So, we try and make it very easy for you to have that journey. >> Now, talking about small businesses, uh we have talked about access to credit, which is mostly related with the small businesses, that is the SMEs. Now, maybe what are the some of the financial solutions that you have for small businesses? >> For small businesses, as I said, we have partnered with these credit institutions. We have very specific accounts. We've seen traders really utilize our our ability to use all our banking branches. We have customers who are in Kisumu and they want maybe to buy something in Mombasa or Nairobi. What they will do is as they continue saving in Kisumu, when that time reaches and they need access to this money, then they would come to a branch in Nairobi and instead of carrying and exposing themselves to risk carrying all the money from They just walk into our branch either in Mombasa or wherever it is. And we are as I said, we are spread countrywide. So, if you want to do business and you want to purchase something, you don't have to go on carrying that money. Just go to that branch. >> That was the the way of the past. >> Just tell us "Today, I want a little bit more than normal. Maybe I need a million or two and then I'll come and collect it in Kisumu or Nairobi." So, once you do that, then we'll prepare for you. And then you'll come and pick it and uh whatever branch. And then one of the key things we also have, we have that interconnectivity with other banks. >> Mhm. >> You can come and see, "Okay, I need to pay somebody who has an account in KCB." >> Mhm. >> You can do it through our systems. So, we have internet banking. So, it's made it very easy. >> Mhm. >> From your phone, you can do all those transactions. So, you do not have to walk around carrying cash >> Mhm. >> and exposing yourself to a lot of risk. This money can get stolen, can get lost, anything can happen. But if you come and now do the transaction from the point where you are, this money will be transferred and within seconds it'll be reflecting wherever you want to be. So, we've tried to make that convenient for business people. We have very interesting guys who want maybe to buy vehicles in Mombasa. >> Mhm. >> They come from Kisumu and you'll find them they you've become very good friends with the managers in Mombasa until the person in Mombasa doesn't view these customers if they're from Kisumu or from Eldoret. >> [laughter] >> They become sort of part of the community in Mombasa. They come maybe once every 2 months to buy a cow to as they do their trade. >> Mhm. >> So, that convenience is what we've really sold to our SME customers. Yeah. >> Aha. It's a good thing. Now now now looking at back uh you mentioned something about digital. You mentioned it's not really necessary for you to walk to the bank. You can access it maybe through your phone. >> Mhm. >> Maybe I believe you have a USSD as well. >> Yes. >> Also through the mobile app app or our USSD. >> So, I'll compare maybe to 10 years before before this new digital technology came out. How was it how efficient was the was the the running of things compared to now? Uh it was very inefficient. Long time as I said, you used to get a passbook. [clears throat] >> Mhm. >> Let's say HELB has dispersed um money to students. >> Mhm. >> So, what you do, you work with that passbook, drop it at Postbank house or mostly to the Postbank house cuz they're the ones used to receive the money. So, drop it there, then you wait for a day or two for that book to be updated. And then you come back after 2 days, you pick it. Now you start going around. And we had limited withdrawal limits. So, you'd be limited maybe I think to 1,000 bob per transaction. So, those limits just to ensure that the risk aspect is managed by the bank. So, it was very very manual. Uh very very manual. But now compared to today, the students like now who we engage with, who get the help, it comes straight to their account and they're able to withdraw using their phones immediately. And they're able to transfer to any other bank they would wish to or pay for any services using their phones. So, irrespective of whether it's a feature phone or a smartphone, they're able to do all those transactions. So, it's become very very easy. Of course, there are all those transaction costs that are associated with it. But what we've done is we've encouraged also if you come to a branch, then a lot of those uh charges are waived cuz the other services are just charged by the telecom company. Yeah, by the mobile company. But we've saved to encourage you to be able to access and to also know that your money is available. You can come in to any of our branches and we do not charge you for that those withdrawals. So, it made life very very easy for our customers. Cheap, accessible, and you get money anywhere you want. And also that interconnectivity with the banking [clears throat] industry. And you see now long time you could only deal with Postbank only. >> Mhm. >> But now, with an ATM card, you can walk into any Visa branded ATM and get your money. So, it does You don't have to come to a Postbank. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. So, it's the the the access has become very easy. >> Now, what about for the remote people in the remote areas? Apart from now the USSD type of a if you have a feature phone, not really a smartphone, how do does it work for them? >> Um the only thing is they have to look maybe for the nearest >> agent. >> agent. Uh-huh. >> Yeah. And as I said, we have over 96 branches. >> Mhm. >> Um I think we're top seven, six there >> Mhm. >> in terms of branch networks, uh in terms of the uh when you rank us amongst the banks. >> Mhm. >> So, we are top. So, reach, we are there. The only thing is for people who are outside that reach and who are outside the 700 or so uh agents, >> Mhm. >> uh we may not be able to be able to give you service at where you are. So, you may have to walk. >> Mhm. >> But what we do we encourage those ones who would wish to go into the digital space, then they'll open an account using and link their phones to be able to operate those accounts. >> Mhm. >> So, we have a solution for all of them. >> Mhm. >> For people who feel they want to come to the branch, then we have that solution. For people who want to use the mobile, we have that solution. For people who want to use the internet, we have that solution. >> solution. >> So, we've broadened >> Everything is accessible anywhere you are. >> accessible. Anywhere. Yeah, it's called anywhere you want. >> You can still transact in Postbank. Amazing. Amazing. Maybe just to finish up because I think the time is not really on our side. Maybe what's the best advice you can give maybe to young and entrepreneurs, people who want to start their own small enterprises, small businesses. They just have the idea, but really don't don't know where to start. What's the best advice that you can give them? >> Yeah. I think for me the best advice I would give them is each journey starts with a small step. >> Mhm. >> It's a one step. >> Mhm. >> If you don't take that one step, you will not be able to succeed. >> Mhm. >> So, you have to have that confidence that this step I'm taking is going to help me achieve my goals. >> Mhm. >> If you want to start savings, do not think big. Do not say I will start saving when I start earning 10,000. If you're earning 1,000 today or 500 today, >> Mhm. >> you start saving with that. >> Mhm. >> And I can tell you that journey is easier. So, that each extra money you get as you earn more, >> Mhm. >> it makes it easier for you to save. >> Mhm. >> What most people do is they try to postpone that. They say I do not have enough money today. >> Mhm. >> Money will never be enough. >> Mhm. >> It will never be enough. >> Mhm. >> It's that sacrifice that you have to do. So, for most businesses for you to succeed, you have to start sacrificing so that you do not remove anything from the business, but you ensure that the business is self-sustainable. Because once you start removing money from that business, it will suffer. >> Mhm. >> So, for me, it's those two three key things. Sacrifice and discipline, and start today. >> Mhm. >> Do not wait for tomorrow. >> Mhm. >> That tomorrow will never come. >> Because even if it's tomorrow, it will be another tomorrow. >> Then it keep building up. >> And it will keep building. So, >> Yeah. >> it start today. Make that decision >> Mhm. >> and live with it. It's painful at times >> Mhm. >> when you say, "Okay, I want to put in some money aside as a border guy or as a person in the market with a market stall." >> Mhm. >> You're saying I'm making 1,000 a day. >> Mhm. >> It's very painful when you say, "Okay, let me put this 2 300." You'll always be looking at it. >> Mhm. >> But I can assure you after 6 months of doing it, you will even forget about it. >> You'll get used to it. >> Yeah, you'll get so used to it and then it doesn't form part of your I can call it a sub personal account. >> [laughter] >> Or it's not part of your account. You don't think about it anymore. >> think about it. You actually forget. After 1 year, if you've been saving maybe half of what you're earning, you'll forget about it. You'll just realize one day, "Oops! >> So, I have all this amount in my my bank account. >> So, when you have that clear target and your vision is very clear, this is what I want to achieve, and you start that journey. Get that discipline. Get that sacrifice. I can tell you you'll be able to do so so much. I think that's one of the key things that I always try and teach. >> Now, maybe before just we get out of the studio, maybe what's the best advice you can give? Do you do you believe Do you people believe that you should not save your money using the same bank? Or you should maybe put your savings in a different bank then your your money for use, maybe the money that you're budgeted with in a different bank so that you cannot touch that money. But, do you think that it's really possible? >> Yeah, it is. It is. It is. One of the key customers we have, especially who are working, you'll find [clears throat] that they're getting paid in one bank. Salary goes into that bank, but they've put a standing order each month transferring the money to Postbank. So, what they've done is sort of forget Postbank is there for them. >> [laughter] >> The money that are accessible to them is in either >> other bank. >> Either KCB whatever, National Bank, Cooperative Bank. They know their money is there. Because as I said, once you start saving and you you you don't want to access it, after some time it becomes a habit. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah, and it becomes part of your character to save. So, it's advisable. You can have one bank for savings, or you can push it into a money market, put it elsewhere. You don't want to be getting your phone and then when you open your KCB your savings [laughter] are Yeah. >> it's always a good thing. It helps mentally. For me, it helps me. But if you are mentally strong and you are able to put it together. >> Yeah, it's all about the discipline at the end of >> That discipline I said. If you have that discipline, it's okay. But if you feel you just put it where you cannot access it. Maybe even where you will get penalties if you withdraw. >> You know you're putting a savings maybe and they tell you if you come before your 6 months >> contract period, you lose the interest or >> So it forces you to wait. >> It forces you to be disciplined and say, "Okay, I don't want that." >> Yeah, so you There are those journeys that each person is built differently. So it just depends. Key thing is once you have that discipline and you are able to do it, but I would also encourage at times when you open so many accounts, there are also charges associated with them. Yeah, for us in Postbank, we do not charge. Um can call it monthly levies or monthly charges. only give you interest. So you'll find your money growing. I can't speak for other banks, but some banks I know once you transact or you do something, there are charges every month. There's a monthly charge. So you may end up facing a scenario where you are spending a lot and the bank is also taking what you are supposed to be reaping. But it's it's a choice people have to make. In Postbank, this is where it is. So you have to really scan which is this account, which is this type of account I want. So as you do that, I think it's advisable to be sure of all the charges and be clear of where your money will grow much more easily than than wherever any other bank. So you it's it's a scanning. And you know, it's free it's a free choice. We will not force you to stay in this bank or here. But for me, it's just to have that education. What is this product I want to take up? How is it relevant to my business? >> Yeah. >> Will it help me grow? Or will I come 12 months down the line each month 100 bob has gone has gone has gone. So, it's it's a choice somebody has to make. But I would advise have one savings >> Mhm. >> one business account. Whether it's the same bank >> Mhm. >> I cannot say. >> [laughter] >> Amazing insights but unfortunately because of time you have to exit the studio but I had amazing conversation with you talking about how to build a building financially resilient business. I got insights on about savings, investments. So, I think everybody, our viewers out there, even a young man, a young a young lady want to start some business, you've got the insights I've got from one and only and that is uh Raphael Lekolool. Was our I forgot to recognize 2023 CEO of the year. >> [laughter] >> Amazing. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> But but for now we have to stop it at there but make sure you stay tuned to Y254 Channel cuz other programs are just coming away. So, by my good name is James John and Brian Saqua at James John at Y254 Channel. Have a lovely day but stay tuned. >> Thank you. [music] >> [music] >> Y254 Imagine. >> Hello. Hello. This is Adulting 101. Anyway, my name is Valentine or at call me Valentine. >> My name is Masai Kitata. K T A. >> Are you okay as an adult? Are you adulting all right? Do you have life hacks on how to adult? >> That's neither here nor there. Adulting 101.