Brooklyn Talks: Salehe Bembury with Antwaun Sargent and Futura

It is my absolute joy to welcome you to our first Brooklyn talks conversation of the spring season, spotlighting the creative process of influential footwear designer Selei Benbury. This evening, Benbury offers a rare glimpse into his 15-year career spanning sketches, prototypes, and personal reflections. He is joined on stage by collaborator and friend Futura and art critic Antoine Sergeant. Without further ado, I'm honored to introduce our speakers. Slehei Benbury is a traditionally stra trained industrial designer and fine artist who has become known across the world for his innovative and culture-shifting footwear designs. He has designed footwear for brands such as Yeezy and Versace and has released meaningful collaborations via his namesake studio Benbury with partners such as Puma, Crocs, New Balance, Monontlair, Ant Clarks and more. In 2025, he launched Spongewear brand in which he is both founder and creative visionary becoming the first creator to launch and own his own footwear business. Futura is an abstract artist whose multi-dimensional UFA expressed across painting, drawing, sculpture, photography, and graphic design is as venerated for its kinetic power as it is for its sheer inventiveness. As a pioneering force when graffiti intersected with the formal gallery ecosystem, Futura was one of the first to introduce abstraction to what was then an almost entirely letter-based genre. Exhibitions of his early work include presentation at Patty Aers's fun gallery and a and MoMA PS1's groundbreaking 1981 New York new wave exhibition where he exhibited alongside his conte contemporaries and friends including Keith Herring, Jean Michelle Bosia, Kenny Sharf, Fe Kenyonz and Raml Z. In 2022, Roli New York published Futura the artist monograph. And last, but certainly not least, Antoine Sergeant is a writer, curator, and director at Gagosjan. He is the author of The New Black Vanguard: Photography Between Art and Fashion, and the editor of Young, Gifted, and Black, a new generation of artists. His writing has appeared in the New York Times, New Yorker, GQ, and in museum and gallery publications for artists including Nick Cave, Ed Clark, Arthur Jaffa, Maleco Makosi, and Yinka Shonabar among many others. Please help me in giving a warm Brooklyn welcome to Clei, Futura, and Antoine. >> Good evening. Good evening. Um, we don't have a lot of time, so we're going to jump right in. Um, sorry. So, Cai, how did it all begin? I make shoes. Can you take us to the beginning of um when you decided that you wanted to um make shoes and be a creative person? >> I know we don't have a lot of time, but I just want to do a quick warm-up exercise with to to be in control of this many people. I'd love if we could all do the wave. So, I'm going to I'm going to point to this side and then we're going to bring it across. Are we ready? >> Ready. Go. >> All right. All right. Wait one more time for my phone and and then I'll stop. All right. Ready? Go. Yeah. All right. Thank you very much. >> Oh, how did it start? >> So, how did you get into footwear? >> Uh, it started with passion. It started with an interest in footwear. Um, it all started with, I guess, creative, uh, talent, an extreme obsession with footwear that started as like this niche interest and then eventually obsession. Um, and then from there, I majored in industrial design. The dream was to work at one of the bigger footwear brands that I'm sure we're familiar with, but um, my first job was Pay Less, which I wasn't that excited about initially, but um, the most valuable thing that we're offered early in our careers is education. And so for Pay Less to make every type of shoe that was a great starting point and uh I blossomed from there. >> One of the sort of central tenets of your design career um has been collaboration and you asked this guy next to us um Pura to collaborate with you and I was wondering if you guys could talk about sort of that collaboration and how collaboration is you know in a lot of ways at the heart of what both of you do. Should it be good? >> Uh, yes. So, Lenny and I collaborated on a croc. Um, the the idea behind that project, it was called Art Friends Thumbs Up. Good job. Uh, the croc was the blank canvas. Yes, that was the thumbs up. Uh, the project was essentially taking the Plex as a blank canvas and inviting artist friends to come and put their art on that canvas. And so we worked with Lenny, we worked with Nina Chanel, we worked with uh Jonas Wood and I'm forgetting the third >> Kenny Sharp. >> There we go. Thank you. And Kenny Sharf. And that was a way to take something that was a proven design um and I would believe almost a perfect design and then stripping back all of the things that were established and letting an artist uh start it from a foundational place. So when it comes to collaboration, I often like to work with friends. It's familiar. It's organic. um business doesn't really interrupt and uh Lenny and I have known each other for a while now. I'm a massive fan of his work and what he's done in his uh crafts lifetime and it was an honor to align with him on a project. >> Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Hello everyone. This is awesome uh to be here with you. Uh yeah, I mean he asked me uh to be involved with the Plex um silhouette and quite frankly based on that I think that was our doorway into getting an opportunity to work with Crocs. So you know how I guess it works in that uh commercial space. It's like one artist uh friend uh another individual as he said you know just want to organically work with friends and you know fellow artisans. So, I was grateful to get that, but the project we did was awesome, but then it indirectly, you know, leads to another event and put me on with the brand and then maybe I can mix that off with someone else. You know what I mean? It's just a kind of continuation, but obviously that's just like one specific thing that we did. I think Sponge is really the the story, right, for where you've headed. >> I love that, Ali. you. So, uh yeah, my current uh most important endeavor that I'm working on is my footwear brand Sponge. Um that's a result of the last 15 years of working in footwear and absorbing, pun intended, um and taking all of those learnings from all of those different um startups or high fashion companies or Yeezy and taking that insight and creating a footwear brand. Um we're about eight months in. At some point, I'm gonna ask everyone to take out their phones and follow Be a Sponge at Be a Sponge. I'm dead serious. And um yeah, that's I mean, yeah, right now that's just my biggest endeavor. Uh it matters the most. I think uh early brands uh the most important thing is early adapters and people that kind of get the story that's being told and help cultivate that community. So that's the journey I'm currently on. It feels like starting from scratch a little bit because I uh have had this pioneer-esque career where I've climbed up quite a mountain and now I feel like I'm starting to climb up a new mountain. So that's what I'm working on. >> Yeah. Like the independent brands, you also started Ptoria Lab Laboratories and so we're sort of jumping ahead but I think this is a a good sort of segue. Why for the both of you is that sort of independence sort of after the long careers that you both have had um really important as artists? >> Ultimately freedom, right? To do what you want to do without someone who controls uh whether it's financial interest or you know they they did you a favor and you know it's just sort of like you're indebted to them. I mean, I've always tried to navigate from the puppeteer, uh, you know, someone who does have those controlling strings on me, which, you know, yeah, that's that's not the case of my life. But I think more importantly, just, you know, you mentioned it. I think I'm more driven by just being creative and doing what I want to do. Even before being creative, I just want to do what I want to do. and therefore I I can't have people in positions, you know, to tell me what to do or, you know, how to do or or or any of that. So independence is required, although I've always said it's expensive because you don't have some resources maybe uh can't make rent, can't do whatever. But if you you know believe I mean I've always believed in a in a return on investment and the investment isn't financial it's is sort of physical mental and I could speak from some uh experience that that did happen although I can tell you many times along the way I was not confident it would or I mean at this point in my career there have been many moments uh professionally that I thought, oh, this is not working. But Futura Labs, that's that's not really new. That's just a spin-off from myself as, you know, it's like a dual personality event where I'm an artist, you know, I'm Lenny, I'm future laboratory, you know, it's sort of like a multitude of of of sort of roles I'm playing, but more comfortable being me. Uh, grateful for Futura to allow that to happen. And Futura Laboratories is just like a fun thing to do with uh commercial products and you know clothing or accessories you know any any of the everyday items. Uh it's hard to determine what that is because some things are standard and some things will arrive you know tomorrow in the future. So just keep my eyes open. Slee sponge you know just as a word play thing because I know you're about that too and I and I love that. Uh yeah, I think that explains a lot of the type of people that we are that we're observant and absorbing and you know, you're aware of your surroundings and you want to adapt into that kind of location and fit in, if you will. Um I've always wanted to fit in. I think graffiti indirectly really helped me do that. I'm I'm so grateful to the time I was born in this city and what occurred and my contribution was in in the moment nothing more than me trying to maintain my individuality but as a result uh it's like a pi piper effect we had and a lot of other people uh embrace the same mindset and you know without them I'm probably not with you you you know it would have taken the entire it's not even a village you know this is a big big planet and young people around the world embraced our you know whatever uh desire to communicate express ourselves you know short of stealing paint uh I don't know um I have more fun stealing than painting but just to say >> but sort of you sort ort of started your own independent company, but there are moments along the way. One of them being sort of the job at Versace. Can you talk about sort of how that came about? >> Yes. So, if you're familiar with my career, I'm sure you've heard this story at least once, so I apologize, but I'm going to tell it exactly like you've heard it because I go on autopilot when uh I tell this story. But essentially, um for context, I moved out to Los Angeles to work for Kanye. I did that for about a year. That job ends. I was fired. I look up. I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm in Los Angeles. What do I do?" Um, so I start shooting my shot at any brand that would accept my email, LinkedIn message, Craigslist email. I don't know if Craigslist is still around. Um, oh, it is. Okay, cool. Awesome. Good resource. Um, and so I was on LinkedIn. I reached out to a Versace design director and I was at the height of unemployment in my underwear eating cereal on my couch to paint a picture. and I proposed an opportunity. I said the sneaker industry is a multi-billion dollar business. Traditionally, um the sneaker consumer, at least back then, was not really too familiar with fashion brands and the potential that they had. Um and I proposed that they had an opportunity to enter the space. They had such strong DNA. The Grea, which is like that pattern, the Baroque print, which is like the golden floral pattern, and the Medusa, which and this is all brand DNA that could be translated into a footwear program. So, this is me shooting my shot defeated. I pro I actually emailed Zara the same day. I was I would have taken either job. Um and a few days later, Donatella Versace got back to me. She said she loves my ideas. She wants me to come to Milan and tell her more. So I was going to put together a few pages of trend of like this is what I think is cool, which at the time would have probably been screenshots of like high piece photos or some [ __ ] Um, and then the week leading up, maybe it was the universe, I had some really influential conversations where someone told me that I should put sample design work in the presentation. Don't assume they know I can design. Someone else was like, "Go to the store, do your market research, learn about um the the existing footwear program." Someone else reminded me that there's not too many people that look like me in the high fashion space, so it's bigger than me and I could be paving away, so take it seriously. um what was going to be a four-page presentation turned to it turned into about a 40-page presentation. I go to Milan. Um by the way, it's really cool that he's able to keep up with me. I've been keeping him outside. Can we can we give a round of applause for for him? All right. Um and so yeah, so yeah, so I went to Milan um to meet Donatella in her regal uh royal looking office and just you know, I've been breathing bleeding footwear for my entire life. So, I was just regurgitating all of these like lifelong learning sponge, right? Um, and she loved it. She started bringing more people in. Uh, at the end of it, she was like, "I love you. You're hired. Do you want to move to Milan? Do you want to consult? What do you want to do?" She was extremely open about it. So, I proposed having my own design studio in Los Angeles and then traveling to Milan once a month for factory visits and shows or what have you. And she agreed. Um I went outside and did my pursuit of happiness like um and then my life uh kind of instantly changed and what's ironic is like a week later I was offered the job at Zara which I if let's say Donatella was like on vacation and had to delay giving me the opportunity I would have taken the Zara job. So very representative of where I was in my journey at that time. But also what's more important about that story is I meet a lot of people that are either one or the other. They either ask questions or they don't. Some people believe if you ask a question, you're going to get like laughed out of a room. Um, and I have no shame. I will ask whatever, you know. Um, and so yeah, so I think what's important about this story is to ask. And you know, the worst thing that can happen is no. And I uh fundamentally changed my entire life by asking. So hopefully that inspires that. >> Yeah. One of the things that's sort of interesting about you both is like the way you move through space, right? So, you talked about easy, you talked about sort of like being more comfortable sort of, you know, outside of like, you know, sort of traditional um hierarchies or spaces. I was wondering um if you could talk about sort of the way that you sort of move through space as artist and um you know you talked about Zara being no different for you than Versace, right? And um and that sort of level of like and then also working with Crocs, working with Yeezys, you know, like working through those different um in those different spaces which very different design briefs with very different ideas about what is accessible or possible or luxury or not or what have you. And I was wondering how do you square that because both of you have sort of moved through these spaces in some in a really seamless way. um how do you sort of square those different sort of ideas around um you know luxury but also high and low or what have you? >> I I think it's important to be a a high observer. So I'm a big believer in fake it till you make it. So within a lot of the opportunities I've received if they ask me if I can do something I say yes and then figure it out later. Um and yeah just be a chameleon. Observe your environment. Even coming here, I was like, I kind of want to do the wave, but if I don't do see enough smiles in this room, I ain't going to do it. So, just, you know, observe your environment and then act accordingly. >> Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny listening to Slehei's story about Versace and and Zara and I realized like, yeah, we're from the same city and we're both kind of kooky, creative type people, but we're different because I don't think I could have done something like that personally or how I would approach, you know, a project or a future one. I mean, as it turns out, I'm more uh timid perhaps. you know, I don't think I could put myself out there like that. Like, yeah, fake it till you make it, but that would be me, you know, just rehearsing in a private room, not in front of anyone, and then determining like, nah, I can't do that. So pretty much for me I feel like I approach things I have the luxury right where you know people it's a it's a good thing and a bad thing where my name it's not like a I'm way more humble than that but like I have to be honest about how people perceive me and the history of of of everything I represent here you know no matter where I go based on the last just 40 years if you It doesn't put me at a disadvantage, but I'm I'm kind of locked into a identity thing with people. And now in my experiences, I really enjoy I mean, I love my people and my friends and I I take care of them, but I really like meeting new people um who who yeah, you you have my shadow cast in front of me. However, they don't really they didn't meet me yet. And I get a chance to be Lenny again. And and that's what gives me joy is that I can uh maybe surprise people, you know, based on probably a good re, you know, pre-entry review, like no, this dude's really cool. He's he's he's wonderful. And then still live up to that, like be a good human being because I think beyond my identity, which is honestly everyone it's boring, you know? I mean, from my point of view, I'm like, "Ah, damn, you know, this guy." Um, but you know, I'm sure some of you in this room may have like seen me out and about on the street and you know, I'm I'm quite approachable and I ran into someone recently on the train and they're like, "Oh my god, you take the train and you're by yourself." So yeah, you know, I I don't get some of the identity stuff that's happening, you know, and hey, I'm grateful to go to a LV show and, you know, get to meet people and Future still doesn't say hi to me, but you know, just to say like um it's weird, you know, for me and I don't take advantage of it, right? where I can certainly, you know, I always say too, like everyone looks above. Not like I look below, but I've always based my life on those less fortunate than me, you know, and kind of remind me of my childhood. And I don't aspire to kind of go up the ladder, if you will. Like all the proverbial isms, yeah, they're great. they apply to a majority of the averaging that we all do with statistics and I we just judge everything but I don't want to be on those param I don't want to be within those parameters I want to be uniquely me and figure it out as we go as you said and and just it's the corniest thing ever but to be the best version you know of me but to know that I'm also like a kind of one of none Right. Like that's who I am. And >> can I add to that? >> Pardon? >> Can I add to it, >> please? Yes. >> So being the best version of you, I remember kind of coming up uh like I worked at Colehan and I was trying to get off like wing tips with no socks cuz that was the vibe back then. And I think when I whenever we all kind of get to this point where we become comfortable in our own skin, maybe we establish like a uniform or maybe we just establish, you know, how we want to present ourselves to the world. And I think when I realized that the best version of myself I could be is me is when I really blossomed as a person as a human. So just yeah another add-on that that's probably one of the most important things you could take away from here is that like you are the best you and to like really lean into that. No, I mean that's what that's the symbiosis I think with us that despite you know someone when when this show was first announced like back to word play and you know I love like captions and saying [ __ ] and talking [ __ ] but it's like generational wealth right that's what I wrote about us when that thing and that's kind of how I feel like we're obviously generational here as life is every day but there's a value in who we are as people in the time that we've doing our thing. And so despite not knowing you completely, I I sense from the very beginning we have that similar kind of a vibe. >> Cloth recognized cloth. >> No doubt. And you know, like part of the whole thing too, it's like um I mean I just love uh I I take pride in this city obviously and I love seeing our people, our citizens, you know, the homies, the home girls, whoever, everyone them, they, you know, whoever you want to be be you. But if you're coming out of this town and you're making something of yourself, I'm like super proud of you because I kind of think it's hard even though, you know, some of us make it look easy, but it's it is [ __ ] hard out there. But >> well, I think that's part of the point, right? Like you worked for Kanye West, >> right? and you know like yes we've moved through spaces and it's you know gravy in that way but I imagine there were some tough days there you know and um and so I think I'm also sort of interested in like you know that part of the creative process right like so you know what happened when a shoe didn't land what you know happened when you know you were at easy and it didn't work you know like why were you fired like why you know what I mean like cuz like the spaces are you know they are difficult to navigate, right? And I think as someone as two people who have navigated them well for, you know, quite a wild, I'm sort of interested in sort of like um for for you to take us sort of through some of that as well, right? >> Uh >> so easy day one go. >> Yeah. So I think it's uh you know at the time I was a a massive fan of him that was like my Superman. So I think any anyone getting the opportunity to work for their Superman is like a very special moment. And I remember the first day when I was like putting my sketches on in my office. It was like cool to have my own office. And any designers in here know it's like really exciting to like dress your office if you will. So I was like dressing my office and then really uncertain on if he would actually be in the office. And I found out that he was in the office every day every day that he was in in town because he was passionate about what he did. And he belined it straight to my office. I got real nervous and he was on his phone and I was like I was like, "Kanye, thank you so much for this opportunity. I'm going to kill it for you." Blah blah blah. And then he looked up from his phone and he was like, "Let's change the world." And then he just left. and and the and and and and the the feeling that that left me with a seeing what he's accomplished in in the time since that conversation, but just really representative of someone that had a vision and regardless of what you feel about him, he is a visionary and I think there that's rare in the time that we live in. So to be respected and then um I would say what I took from that place is the the power of disruption. Um, a lot of us spend a lot of time under these corporate roofs where we're analyzing trends or following rules or we can't push the needle too far and he was someone that didn't or doesn't give a [ __ ] And that in itself is like is kind of valuable when you're surrounded by people that are afraid to break out of uh the status quo. So yeah, the p the power of disruption. Um, and and and honestly within my collaborative journey, I've I think I've been rather disruptive with my work. So there was probably some strong inspiration there. >> And how has your design philosophy have changed over the last sort of 15 years? you know, like you go through your book, which you all should get, um, and the like the styles, the sort of questions you're asking, the sort of aesthetics you're interested in, you know, shifts, right? And I was wondering if you could sort of, you know, perhaps talk somewhat about how you approach design and how that has changed, you know, with these different interactions, right? with the interactions with Donatella, with Yay, with you know ex like all of these artists that you bring into with Poutura, with Nina Chanel, with Virgil, you know, with all these artists that you I imagine there's, you know, what I like about the work is that there's this creative exchange, but it seems that like that exchange ends up, you know, in a sort of dem as democratic as possibly can be in a shoe that then folks can go out and get, you know, and um and so I was wondering if you just talk about sort of your personal sort of design philosophy having like interacted with all of these other creatives. >> Um I think with experience uh you gain knowledge and then also with wins it increases confidence. The the book I just released there's like this common common theme of fear which I found really interesting because the book is about all this success but in almost every chapter I'm talking about how I was afraid I was going to get fired here. I was afraid I didn't fit in here. I was afraid they weren't going to like my work here or there. And so I think with those wins and with that education, confidence increases somewhat. I mean, even hitting Lenny or hitting Sky and being like, "Hey, like would you know, would Lenny be interested in working with me?" And then for that project to happen, I was like, "Oh [ __ ] I can work with Lenny. I I should hit up Kenny Sharf, you know." Um, and so I think you you just learn what you're capable of through putting yourself out there and and and asking. Yeah. And the worst that can happen is no, you won't get left out of the way. But >> what about your sort of personal sort of design aesthetic, right? Like how do you appro because each project or each sort of company has their own house codes and you like but how are you sort of navigating? >> I think I've had to design with two different hats. When I was like a brand designer, I had to to use the pin of the brand that I worked for. So if I worked at Versace or uh Khan or whatever, my work had to look like that brand. But now within this collaborative um figure that I've become um it's it's like I guess maybe I would call it like classic with a twist. It's like finding that balance between con convention commercial and then polarizing. What's going to stop and make people be like what the [ __ ] is that? But it doesn't scare me too much. I think some of the best design work you actually don't like when you first see it and then you see it again you're like wait a minute and then you see it again and you're like I think I like that. Right? And so I think uh that's a a great relationship that some of my audience has with my work because it evokes a response. And so I'm almost happy when people don't like my work because it still means that it's evoking some kind of emotion out of them which uh a lot of work does not. So I I try to be at one end of the spectrum. >> Yeah. >> Did I answer? >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Mhm. >> Um the other thing that's sort of interesting about sort of the both the way that you both sort of approach, you know, art or design is some of it is often about like you said, right? like I you know you're not going to like this and you're not you know so I was wondering if you can sort of talk about the ways that like and I also noticed that like the fear thing that sort of keep sort of permanent you know throughout the book or throughout the job or um like how has that just you know like for you and Lenny how has that you know changed just the work right because like you know we're not there you know me and the audience are not there at 3 a.m. you're like, I got to make a decision on, you know, X, Y, or Z, but I'm scared, you know, and so it's really interesting for you to open up about sort of how fear plays such a role in a creative process. >> I I've uh spoken a few times about the similarities between like the seven stages of grief. For those that don't know, say someone passes in your life, you experience seven emotions, not all of them being negative necessarily. And so within creative opportunity, I experience the the seven stages of creative opportunity. So often when I get a project, the first thing I feel is fear. I feel imposter syndrome. I'm like, "Oh man, they're finally going to figure me out." Um, but then the next emotion is motivation. And then the next after that is I don't know. I'm making this up as I go. However, the point is at the end I've seen that it's gotten to this destination of a successful product. So So frankly, like in the beginning when I start to feel that fear, it lets me know that I'm still like invested and I still care. Um, so I actually think it's a necessary emotion to go through within a creative uh journey. >> How is fear shaped to you? >> Yeah, fear. Um, I don't have fear. Um, straight up. >> I kind of knew that was going to be >> No, I mean it's just like I don't I don't think of it that way. Um, I used to, but it wasn't afraid. It was I guess afraid to fail, right? That's what it was. It was a fear of failure and then that's just lacking confidence I would imagine. But you know once you get through you know a couple of marathons you know you you can you can run that race right and then you look at your time you're like okay I can do better you know I got to get PT you know PB or whatever all this stuff. So just to say uh no I I'm not afraid but but there's a distinct difference and I think we both could experience that many artists creatives have that where it's like okay you do what you do creatively you're creating something and there's there's there's no dance there you're just doing your thing but then when it it becomes a collaborative effort with a brand or a partner and now you want to find out what's best for all parties concerns. So when you're repping for a brand, like you said, you're you're you know, you got the quither, you know, they're all their arrows and and you're shooting their [ __ ] I think the the fear more comes in um how is this going to work together, you know, perhaps. But when I'm, you know, I think design and and for me painting is completely different than the design world where I'm now bringing in other people to check the work or you know uh collaborate with the work because um you know when you when I'm painting I don't need to answer to any higher authority other than my own conscience. So that's why sometime collaborations are great because I can escape from that or in fact return to that you know it's like artwork's wonderful to kind of escape from and just just go get immersed in or you know submerged in or something but yeah I mean I don't feel afraid I just feel like I hope I meet expectation right and usually how I can avoid that is not coming in with a kind of oh yo this is my idea. This is this is dope, you know, let's do this. I I love to offer uh choices to the partner or client and based on really kind of what they want, you know, it's the opportunity to make someone happy or please them in a sense of what we're trying to do together. So yeah, I mean whether it's like opening a door or sharing, you know, having a smoke, we're going to do that after, right? >> Okay. One of the things in the book um that was also really generous and it actually reminds me in some ways the way that Virgil worked um was the way that you sort of like just show right the process. This is a process. This is these are the sketches. This is sort of the design. This is, you know, and there's a real um generosity, you know, in that, right? Because often folks, you know, would see something, see a painting, see a shoe, see, you know, what have you, what an artist creates and they can't deconstruct it or they can't sort of, it's almost like there's this magical thing happening. And I wonder for you why was it really important to show not only the sort of finished product but also show like this is the actual work that sort of how I derived at this particular you know shoe or this particular design. Um I think that we were all uh really fortunate to be able to observe uh Virgil's journey and there was a lot of importance in representation and we got a lot of education from that. But a lot of the way that I was inspired was simply getting to Oh, I thought Scott was asking a question. Um sorry, he had his hand up. Um but it was more, you know, just getting to observe um how he was moving through the world. You know, just something as simple as him like flying business class, arriving at a city in Europe, having an old white guy in a suit like pick him up with his name on a piece of paper and then like getting into like a nice car, which sounds like shallow, but prior to that, it felt like that image was only like white men in business suits, right? So like even just to simply see that as like a reality. um was was pretty crazy. And then um it probably indirectly influenced me within my time at Versace and to be be myself like I was, you know, standing next to the CEO. He's wearing a three-piece suit, Donatella's in a gown, and I'm like in Obama pants and I was like and I belong there just as much as everyone else. So um yeah, just the value in observing how he moved I think influenced me and uh understanding that I can't the best me I can be is myself and um and then I guess that indirectly influences the work >> and then the the piece because we all had very different experiences with Virgil. I from Chicago but I um curated his show here um and which happened to be his last show and so knew him through that sort of last you know sort of part of his life and you have both of collaborated with him in different ways um and it like that piece of like him always sort of he called them the keys always just sort of like giving you know people the keys you know it's like in this book you see that time and time again and I was wondering if that was something that um you're even conscious of that you were doing like you know in that way of like I'm going to you know show folks like how I made it in a way you know >> I think at least in footware design I don't know how it works for you but in footwware design it's such an obscure job and for like a lot of uh professions there's like a you know plumbing for dummies or like taxes for dummies there's there really isn't one for footwear and then it's such a kind of like definitionless especially within like industrial design gig I think it's important to pull back the curtain um and really just show people what I'm working on without giving away too much of the like secret sauce, you know? Um when I first moved to LA, I was like spending a lot of time in recording studios and I was like fascinated by all the the spinning buttons, which I'm sure any music people in here are like, "Oh, that's just the like equalizer." But for me, that was really that was really interesting. So, just being aware that like the things I see on a daily basis, we were just talking about the rooms that we find ourselves in. Um that is not normal to most. So, I try to keep that in mind and pull it back to >> Yeah. I mean, I'm getting to know a lot as well cuz I mean, I know uh I didn't know you curated the uh virtual show, Antoine. >> You didn't know that you did not know that? >> Yes. >> I did. >> Yeah. Um but no I mean you know you speaking about being a disruptor and you know that's what you were getting from from from Yay and you know it's that whole tree apparently right because you know Verge I also thought was somewhat of that type figure as well. I mean, I never saw myself as a disruptor, but I do want to um not not put people on, but you know, bring other people into the group. And I think that's something Verge was really very good at as far as the kind of people you would expect to see in the room prior to someone like Verge, maybe they weren't present. But uh you know all my path here my timeline I've also tried to bring folks in who uh for all the right reasons you know oh this individual is really good on uh you know whatever digital tech I mean the guy's super fluent in Adobe and and all of the you know you want a PDF this is your person or whatever the case may be in all kind of facets photography writing is you know anything dance music and but I do it in a more uh sort of a you know not so overt way you know it's a bit more like um creating not spies but I don't know you know you get people in the industry that you know are your allies and another thing that's weird is today you know clients of mine they're not half my age but you know they're 40s something supporters you know, people who are supporting me now. It's it's pretty awesome that I'm still connected to not just the present, you know, but this new generation and you obviously as well, Slee, being a part of that. And, you know, that's what I I thought was beautiful about Ves, you know, jumping on me and and giving me a lot of attention at a moment there and what probably being born like something like 1980, you know what I mean? It's it's just great to see the next gen arriving and now we have you know the the subsequent one arriving as well you know all the 20some people who are interning you know coming out of school working in these brands uh wanting to work in brands perhaps inspired by you perhaps have heard of me uh went to the Verge show knowing full well Antoine you did curate you see what I'm saying like people and you Well, just just to touch back, we we were having a chat about yinking, grabbing, so and I was talking about stealing paint and when I saw this guys, >> same thing. >> This is coming out with me. And >> but I would have had a thing, you know, I would have been in a hardware store and I would have asked the guy, "Hey, do you have a um >> yeah, you have like a monkey wrench?" And then I would just My god. Just saying you you know >> not a disruptor. Not a disruptor at all. >> No. I started stealing candy from New York City um news stand the old I felt sorry for the old Indian guy Mr. Singh or whoever. I was like ripping him off. But yeah. Oh not for nothing. Let me say in the world of fashion right also when I was like I was probably like 14. My mom said, "Hey, baby, I got this jacket for you." I was like, "Oh, thanks." And it was uh it was my Levi jacket, which I was very proud of that jacket. And she she'd sewed some compartments on the bottom that completely fit spray cans. You could fit sprite, you know, like I think it's a half a dozen cans. So, my mom was, God rest her soul, she was, she's from Chicago. My mom actually also uh she uh was was sort of aided and embedded in in in my in my career >> sort of >> sort of yeah no cameras at that time and yeah >> I'm going to ask one more question and it sort of is a and then we'll take some questions from the audience um sort of what do you guys think in this moment you know like is going to be sort of the future of of sort of or or maybe it's a to ask that question in a different way. Sort of the experiences that you've both had, you know, moving through the world, you know, in the ways that you have, um, and we're sort of in such a particular moment right now to say the least. um that you know the creatives and the sort of artists that I sort of talk to on a daily basis are all sort of negotiating right this current moment and I wonder >> sort of for you what does that sort of mean for the future of your creativity or in general or the type of landscape right because you know with Virgil and you know others like a lot of sort of what happened over the last 15 years um was possible because of the way that folks have linked arms and sort of um you know sort of pushed brands, pushed, you know, sort of institutions, pushed um others, right? And so I wonder sort of how you guys are feeling this particular moment, but also sort of how do you see the landscape developing out of this? >> Um I always find it hard to predict, but I really think it's important. I think evolution is important. I think uh using the tools that we've been given is important. So, um I'm a user of AI this um and I've had a lot of conversations with creatives recently where they're afraid that it's like replacing creative potential or potentially even replacing people, but I think it's a tool that helps expand bandwidth. Um even as like a footware designer, if anyone's familiar with the the job, we often use Illustrator. We're using like line work. It's somewhat of an archaic uh practice, but now I have some designers and we're going over concepts and what he's showing me look like real shoes. And that's what the use of AI and just thinking about how much time that that saves. Um it's just really representative of how important it is to use the tools that we've been given. I've worked with some designers that when like Photoshop and Illustrator came out, they refused to make that transition and they only hand sketch and because of that they move at a much slower rate. um and eventually uh might become obsolete. So, I don't know if I can necessarily predict what's next, but I think evolving with the times is extremely important or you might be uh left behind. >> Yeah, I'm not on the prediction market thing either. Um >> are you pro AAI? >> Am I pro-AI? Um yeah, whatever. I'm not concerned about it. I mean, it's not going to it's it's not going to affect me. me. I mean, yeah, my opinions are when I started seeing celebrities doing commercials, I'm like, "Oh, wow. That shit's whack." But at the, man, at the same time, you're right, it's like an accelerant, but at the at the same time, it's it's it's a due to the, you know, mathematical, you know, all of itness, it's it's a super hyper accelerant, right? And and I think it's in the stage it's at right now, it's a little bit dangerous. So, I'm keeping my eye on it. I mean, I know everyone's like, you know, I was just thinking like, okay, not the workable AI that can create stuff for you. I mean, some years ago, what was the platform? Um, it was still two-dimensional [ __ ] I I I guess they can flip video clips, but what was the name of it? It was anyway it was just some AI derivative kind of like you know Adobe on steroids like hey I want uh I want a astronaut suit but I want it to look like military and you know you could just throw it some prompts and it would create something immediately. I thought that was really cool but I I I was jelly because I was like damn man I've spent hours trying to create that. So, I I get the accelerance of it all, but I I think there's a back end to it that that could be negative, and I'm just waiting. I'm waiting to see. But I think chat, hey, chat, what's this? I think that's straight up laziness because what happened with uh let me ask Google, you know, I still I still like G >> just on the strength of >> But when Google came out, there was people that were probably like, why aren't you using an encyclopedia? >> No, but no, no, no, no. True. But but by then I mean did they know what a [ __ ] encyclopedia was? Right. Okay. So but just to say I mean some of us most of us still come from a world that that we did have this sort of other you know the the sort of dinosaur era and and I dig it. You know I dig the analog era like a lot. and and yeah, I will default to a [ __ ] library, right? Just for the strength of uh atmosphere or, you know, uh quiet. >> So, we're going to rapidly get through some of these questions. >> Um because we have just a few more minutes before um will be signing books after this. So, grab one and get your book signed. Um person input their name, but what is something small that someone can do to build their own 15-year creative career? Uh >> something small, >> something small. Don't let no affect you remotely. Uh like when I got that Versace job, I'd probably been told like no 20 times prior to that. And I was pretty defeated, but the nos should just like wash over you because the yeses are on the way. >> What should someone do? >> Yeah. Something small someone can do to build a career. >> Get to work. I mean work basically. Yeah. Like do something. >> Yeah. >> What's the one rule of footwear design you take the most joy in breaking? >> Um maybe just breaking convention. And I think that all the brands that we know and love, they kind of are following the same model and creating the same footwear because the stakes are high. So, there's a lot of money being spent and they got to make that money back, right? So, um it's important to me just to break that that trend somewhat and have a little bit of fun and be creative. Was recently at Lenny's studio and like I was like geeking out over all his art, but he was like, "Yeah, yeah, that's cool, but check out this Lego pyramid I made." And like true story. And that's what's cool. I just think that like the fact that he is this like legendary artist, but he's still excited about making Lego pyramids shows like a a passion for creativity. >> Where do you where do you go to rejuvenate your creativity? Um where do you go to recharge? Um burnout is a thing. >> They're asking for some tips on sort of >> I mean where do I go? uh my backyard, smoke a joint. Um no, I don't know. I mean, I think you don't need to, you know, you don't need a quiet walk and uh you know, you know, my feet on the sand. I mean, it's a lot of like theatrical stuff out there. just do what makes you feel, you know, I mean go to that space I guess your comfort zone or but I mean you said motivation ley, you know, one of those uh you know things that you seven elements of whatever >> creative. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um and motivation is really a huge factor in our lives and I I'm really good at like you I don't fake it till I make it but I I tell I know how to fake motivation to myself. So I internally can self-motivate. I think that's very helpful. >> Yeah. Also maybe like mindless activity. Uh someone said to me the other day, when was the last time you were in a room by yourself with no stimulus at all? Now your phone, nothing. You were just alone with your mind and your thoughts. And I honestly didn't have an answer because at this point in our lives, we have so much entertainment. There's always something going on. So, taking advantage of a mindless activity and actually spending some time with yourself, which is like rare because you're spending time with yourself for like 30 seconds and then you're checking your phone or you're scrolling or whatever. So, >> do it on plane rides >> that. Yeah. Well, I don't Yeah, but >> I mean, you know, you like raw dog it, right? You're like, "No, no, none of this." Cuz sometimes, not for nothing, I mean, you know, none of it's acceptable, right? Whatever they're offering, I'm like, "Ah, this is whack." Even the even the map it's like >> so just just kill the whole thing, right? Shut it down. >> And another thing when I'm on the train. Yeah, I'm on the train. I'm not on my phone, yo. I'm just sitting there because I mean, come on. This is This is still New York, let's be honest. So, I'm just there and you know, new technology, mapping, whatever. But yo, I'm just observing everyone in that [ __ ] car and I am so ready to break the [ __ ] out if [ __ ] goes down. So just to say get off your device in the train. I mean I know you got to get somewhere but just hold back. Like I wish people could just hold back and I watch them and they can't they can't resist just the guy had it. He's He's looking. Okay, check something. Whatever. Maybe Koshi. And then he he he put it back down and I was like, I'm going to count to 20. This guy's going to grab his phone again. I got to seven. He was already So, >> put the [ __ ] down a little. A little bit. Little bit. >> This was unrelated, but >> shut up. >> Uh Dave Chappelle, whenever he has shows, he has these little pouches that you put your phones in. >> Yeah, that's amazing. And it's obviously you can't take photos or whatever, but it actually significantly changes just the socializing experience because you know if you're talking with someone, if there's a drop in the conversation, you might grab your phone. If you're talking with someone, you want to show them about like show them a trip you just took, you might grab your phone. So existing in a social space with no phone at all, not not only does it bring us back to like a golden era where we can enjoy ourselves without being like being documented, but it also forces you to like actually look into someone's eyes and like, you know, be present. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Somebody wrote a paragraph about asking for basically style advice. Um um they want to know um when you get up in the morning or afternoon um what piece do you reach for first? Pants, shoes, >> chain. They want to know. Uh, I don't know what I reached for at first, but recent I was just in Japan with a buddy and uh he was like, "Man, Slay, I love your style. You don't give a fuck." And I was like I was like I was like, "I don't know if this is positive or negative." But what but what I I think he was trying to say is that like when I'm at fashion week and stuff like I'm essentially just dressed like myself. I'm not necessarily wearing any, you know, uniform or peacocking or anything like that. So, why did I bring that up? I just Yeah, I think it's just important to kind of like lean into you. Um, and so I don't necessarily grab anything first, but it's more about just like a feeling of whatever makes you feel good. And that almost brings me to like where the sneaker like community finds itself. Like these days, kids just look for sneakers that make themselves like cool or rare or it was expensive. And when I was coming up, it was simply about what made you feel good and what made you the individual that you were. So, um, I try to strive for that. I just I'm an individual. >> Shoes. >> Oh, shoe. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, footwear. Footwear because it's all from, you know, it's like from the bottom up, right? I mean, uh, probably footwear. But Bruce Lee's quote about style always stuck with me. Uh, you know, it's like, oh, what style, you know, what style do you have? And, you know, so I apparently his style was no style. And I and I thought like, yeah, that's kind of amazing. And just to say anyone in the graffiti slash street art uh lore historic knows that we appropriated that word style out of the fashion or like Hollywood or whatever was deemed stylish. >> And that's a huge word in our community. And so I've always felt it's a kind of a double, you know, it's a bit of a uh, you know, it's like a kind of a joke because of course style lives, you know, at the Met Gala and blah blah blah, but it also embodies itself on the street as people who would never have access or even know about the Met >> could be the most stylish individuals in their neighborhoods or, you know, wherever they they may live. So style is a big thing even though I don't really run to it, you know? I'm just Yeah, I'm accepting now like it's the not the Steve Jobs effect, but yeah, you just get into something you're quite comfortable with and you're like, "Yeah, [ __ ] it." Like I'm not trying to have the next latest whatever because when I look at my inventory, I probably have more than 400 jackets. And uh that's that's that's that's horrible, you know. >> Um >> that's so horrible. >> I'm going to ask one more. >> I think my dad had two. >> I'm gonna ask one more question um for the both of you. I'm going to ask two more questions. Okay, one more. Um because I think it's important and then we'll end on the next question. Um how do you know when it's time to move on from a brand, a company, a project? when they stab you in the back. >> So >> they they will do it. >> Yes, they will. Um so I think the point of a collaboration is to reach a destination that both parties couldn't have reached on their own. So I think that once either that destination has been met or maybe the destin you see the potential of reaching that destination is not possible that might be a sign that it's time to go. >> And lastly for the both of you um what's something you haven't designed, haven't painted, haven't made yet um that you would take on as a new challenge? >> I got this. Go ahead. >> Okay. Uh, for me, furniture, um, the current relationship that my audience has with my work is for the most part exists on a daily basis, but I think when people love your work so much, they decide to keep it in their home. It's a way more intimate um, product relationship. So, and then I'm an industrial design, industrial designer at heart, so making things that are functional and make our lives easier um, is a high priority of mine. That seems like a good um next next chapter or you know subject matter for you doing furniture. I can totally see that uh in a design you know graphics um more design than than painting. I would love to uh you know I don't know get involved with uh future space travel in the next 25 years if you will and get some designs moving into space. So maybe could figure out in the next five years how do I connect with NASA in in some way. No disrespect to Heron or Tom Sachs, but just trying to say uh as a kid, you know, and we're having this revival now with Artemis program and you know, plans of going to Mars and [ __ ] but just to say or the moon, of course, but uh I'm I'm a child of the 60s, right? I mean, I grew up uh 1969, I would have been 13, 14, man. It maybe uh just to say all of that moment is it's huge for me. And even as a child before I ever wrote my name on the wall, I was like, "Oh man, I would love to because I I love graphics as a kid and and and logos and [ __ ] and and NASA's was always up there with, you know, GE and and Zenith and IBM and whatever." I kind of remember Coca-Cola, no doubt. But just to say, I'd love to do some graphics uh for future space travel. Not X, not that, but >> the legit, you know, the other guy. Yeah, >> I just wanted to thank both of them for the conversation tonight. Um, and there's one more thing you want them to do. >> Uh, oh yeah, take out your phones and follow. Be a sponge. I'm serious. Please. B E A S P U N G E. I'm going to look. >> You want to see this? >> And then join us. >> Wait, can we can we do the wave one more time, too? Wait, what' you say about the Knicks? >> Check the score. >> Oh, you guys check the Knicks score. >> 72 to 22. >> Oh, fire. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's like 40, 50 points. What? >> Real. >> What? >> Oh, wow. >> Go New York. Sorry. >> Oh, wow. All right, real real quick. Uh, just wait. Let me get it on video. The wave start. Let me get Let me get Lenny in there. The wave starting now, please. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much to Celey, Antoine, and Fura for sharing so generously with all of us. I wanted to shout out a few people behind the scenes. Thank you to Sarah and Sheile at iconoclast, Chay, Echigosian, Kivian, Josh, Chris, Chris, and Farardat who are documenting um tonight's program so that you can see it later on. uh Keith in our sound booth, Johnny for providing ASL, and most of all, all of you for being here tonight and making this evening so