Brett Cooper Breaks Silence on Controversy, Regrets, and Marriage

People see one thing and then there's another thing that happens, you know, offscreen and offline. Well, it looks like the rumors were true. Brett Cooper's departure has caused quite a stir. I wrote every single episode of the show that I did and I put the story together. I drove the creation of it. I knew that my situation was not normal. So, I was always kind of thinking about breaking a cycle. Would you say right now going on 2025 the most divided we've been? This divide between men and women goes so deep right now between happiness and finances and educational levels to ideology that I think people kind of brush it aside and make fun of it and we laugh about it and we say, "Oh, these liberal women, whatever." It's so important. Brett Cooper announces she is leaving the Daily Wire. Brett Cooper is officially leaving the Daily Wire. What was the most difficult part of branching out on your own? Not knowing what I didn't know. Was there anything that they could have done to have kept you? Brett, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. Happy to be here. So, our first episode was one of our most viewed episodes ever. It did like over a 100red million views across all platforms. 2 million on video and audio of like the main fulllength podcast. Everyone loved it. And you have so many things going on right now. Leaving the Daily Wire, we have you getting married or you got married. So many things happy to be here. I think it's the most divisive, but people always say that. Would you say right now going on 2025 the most divided we've been? I don't think so. I think because we just came off of a period of what I feel like was real unity for a moment. Like during the election, I felt like there was more unity in this country than I had ever experienced before. Um, and you know, I was a post 911 baby. I feel like I didn't experience like my parents, you know, talk about what the world was like after 911 where the entire country came together and there it felt like there was this whole um, you know, unified American spirit. And maybe it's because of the bubble that I was in in terms of my values and the show that I do, but it felt very unified in November of like everybody who would cross the aisle to vote for Trump, everybody who was excited about where the country was going. It felt like it was very positive. And then actually the first episode that I did on my show kind of speaks to what you're talking about now, which was I feel like that started to crumble. So I think that there's still some like lingering pieces of unity, but I feel like the right were just bad winners in general, and I feel like there's a lot of divisiveness within the right-wing in general. I think the left is also kind of imploding on itself because they don't know what's going on. So I'm just speaking purely politically. Um, so I think there's a lot of confusion, but I think there was far more division in like a 2020 than there is now. That felt like hostile division. This feels like confused chaos. See, I've seen those charts, the polls that show like the unity throughout the '9s. And then it just diverges in the last like 3 or 4 years. And now I think according to the polls, it is the most divisive we've ever been in history. And it seems like the right's more right and the left is more left. Yeah. Fewer people in the middle. And it's interesting and I wonder if that's because people have now felt like they need to be in a party. Like the middle is no longer a common ground like place to be. Like I feel like that's happened on both the right and the left where the right has pointed fingers and said like you can't be a centrist. You can't be an independent. You need to be over here. Where the left has kind of done the same thing of if you step out of line then you're canceled. So I think a lot of people have just become more and more partisan which has probably added to that division and and again I think that in terms of both parties you have that additional layer of it being so maybe you are right in terms of like it's like there's broader division and then within each like segment of our like political landscape there also feels like a lot of division. I think it's almost echo chambers online that the algorithms really promote the extremes and like the more outrageous you are like I could tell some people purposely will like tow the line and they do it intentionally to get a reaction and just you get one side just losing their mind but that engagement just like drives it to the top and then the people that feed into that now like have a direction they they they could either go down that and it just it becomes the echo chamber and there's this whole conversation about like whether monetizing X was a good idea because of that because now you have like the engagement baiters, whether it's just the like, what do you think about that? Like they post some like ridiculous story with a ridiculous question or it's the towing the line and just basically being a fire brand. Um, and I think Matt Walsh was tweeting about this just a couple of days ago of saying that he wishes that it wasn't monetized because it's made the platform just so messy and it's I think he believes that it's hurt the political landscape in a lot of ways. Um, but I think that it has changed incentives for sure, especially on that platform. But yeah. Yeah. What I find interesting is that the the conflict and the divisiveness I think is now emerging in a way of like people don't even want to have conversations. And uh I've noticed this I'm kind of outing myself early here but like somewhat recently I'm not going to say when uh I matched with a woman on Hinge and her message to me was oh I just found you online. And I was like oh cool like what did you see? And she's like, "Well, I think that you're one of those like right-wing like I've seen your Yeah. And I'm like I looked at my Instagram cuz she found my Instagram and I think what she was referring to is that I asked Jordan Peterson what his favorite books were. That's like she saw that I was associated with Jordan Peterson and that was too much for her. Okay. So, this is another part of divisiveness is that men and women are more divided than ever. So, now that I'm like walking through all of this, I think where I was looking at it through the lens of just like, oh, the right and the left. I think when you look at our society, we are probably and I don't know if this is what that, you know, polling was looking at. But so now we have we've already kind of gone through these other places that are more divided, but like men and women ideologically we are now more divided than ever. Like women are moving farther to the left. Men are increasingly moving to the right. But it's not even like you're out here being some like crazy right-wing extremist. just because you associated with Jordan Peterson or you, you know, interviewed V Shapiro, it's like, oh, it's just and it's I think that male female uh division is playing a much bigger role than a lot of people are talking about. It's under the interview with David Pacman or Anna. Yeah. Or like Destiny or like anybody. Yeah. Of course. But it doesn't matter. It's like if you're just in rooms with certain people, they won't they won't even ask you questions. They just make assumptions. for sure. And I find that really interesting also when you look at like Anna Kasparian how she's now been some people think sympathizing with the right a little bit more and then everyone's disliking this which is so weird. Some people on the right are a little receptive to it. Everyone on the left think she's like a traitor. A lot of people on the right are like well you still said all of these things a couple years ago and for that we're not going to forgive you. And that's the finger wagging which is so annoying to me because if somebody is being willing to cross party lines for the sake of and I don't look at her as grifting at all but truly for the sake of understanding of wanting the world to be better of really trying to find common ground. It's like who are we then to point fingers and say, "Oh, I'm not going to forgive you for this. I'm not forgetting." It's like all the co stuff of, you know, people who were late to the game on masks and lockdowns or vaccines or whatever it might be who came out of the fog three years later and went, "Oh my god, this destroyed our economy. This destroyed young people and their development. This created a mental health crisis. I can't believe that I engaged in this, that I supported it." And you have people on the right who, you know, we're not for, you know, we're not forgiving or forgetting. We're we're never letting you move on. I'm like, they're human beings. Everybody makes mistakes. Everybody does things that they regret or thinks things that they regret. Now they've changed their minds about things. We're never going to move forward and have actual progress if you can't come to the table and have a conversation. So I think it's a problem on both sides for sure. The right is definitely better at it, but there are still those people that are so maybe it's the right that I did. Did you see Chris Cuomo and PBD? how PBD was trying to invite Chris to be like a regular paid talent on the show and like the comments were insane how they like every time he appeared all the top comments thousands of likes how could you bring this person on your show how could you be platforming this person like I didn't think that this was you know going to be this big of an issue and I congratulated people I'm like I love this idea he's like oh thank you I'm like why did you do it he's like well I want to connect both sides and I'm like good impression I was like yeah that's great I love that and uh but yeah the people don't like it yeah I think and I think that also depends on who your audience is and who the base is. Like it would kind of make sense in terms of PBD's audience that they might not be interested in that. Whereas I think my audience that is already very ideologically diverse, which is something that I'm super proud of and I think is very very special. like whenever I talk about things that um or talk about individuals or people that might not be completely, you know, partisan or be on, you know, the other side, they're very receptive to it because it's like, no, this is about common ground. It is about trying to move forward in a positive, productive way. Um and so I think it's just encouraging people to lean into that, which is hard. It's hard to sit across from somebody who thinks differently than you and have humility and grace and try to find understanding. It is hard for a lot of people to forgive and forget when their lives were completely changed by something that was so destructive and so awful. But I think you can't live in the past that you're never going to move forward from that. It's just kind of a Yeah. Do you think you can change your mind in public anymore? And if so, how do you do it? Oh gosh, it's really really hard because it does require a lot of humility. It's hard as an individual just in general without, you know, having any kind of public platform to change your mind and accept responsibility and let people know that you're changing your mind. That's just hard in your personal life regardless. But it's incredibly hard in this media landscape that moves so quickly and where people are so judgmental and they just clip things. So I think it's definitely harder and it makes me respect the people um like Anna who are able to do that who are able even just like dipping their toe and you know saying maybe I thought incorrectly about this or maybe my mind is changing. It's really really hard. Um like I look at the Nicole Shanahans and the Tulsi Gabbards of the world. I mean like Tulsi is the prime example of this who was literally put on no-fly lists because of her path of changing her mind. um she was villainized by her own people, by her own party and her community. And I think one of the reasons why people love her so much now, especially on the right, is because she took all of that into right. You know, she went through all of it with grace. She never wavered. Um and that's incredibly incredibly hard to do. And I think that's why there are so few examples of that. If you talk to Nicole Shanahan, what she and her family went through, her entire foundation basically being taken away from her. I mean, it was just insane. Um, and I think when you are somebody with that much influence and that much, you know, you could say power or just, you know, um, I guess influence is the best word, it just becomes increasingly difficult and I think it's it requires a lot of fortitude. So, yeah. What's a hot take you have that you get a lot of hate for? Funnily enough, the last thing that really pissed people off, which is not a hot take at all, but I think it was just something that I hadn't talked about a lot, was that I'm not a fan of Zilinsky. And that's not a hot take. Like I really like it was I did an episode about uh like Trump's first 30 days in office and I talked about his meeting with Silinsky that was super viral with him and JD Vance. Mhm. And I basically talked about you know the humor in it but I definitely had some side remarks about Zinsky and the fact that as an American taxpayer I really don't want to be funding a war anymore. Um and my comments were like lit up of people being like I had no idea that you are like against Zinsky and that was like the most recent thing but that's not even a hot take. I don't know if I Why do you think they thought you were in support of him? I don't cuz I just never talked about cuz I don't really talk about foreign policy and so you think your audience disproportionately they all side with him. I don't think I side with him in that way but like they all I also think that it was like a smaller vocal minority like it was just people who came out of the woodwork who like my so I can see like my normal commenters like the people who are always like the first one to comment on that kind of stuff. Exactly. Thank you guys. We really appreciate it. But it's like their all their comments were totally normal to find. It was like random accounts I had never seen before that just like popped out of the woodwork that were just so horrifying. You think they're bots? They could be. I know. But that was like Yeah. Yeah. But that was the most recent thing that's like got me in hot water. But I really don't get into hot water that frequently because I feel like and if I do, it's for something that And this is interesting. Um, I think if I do get into hot water, it's because I'm holding a mirror up to things that people don't really want to hear or see. Like the thing that, and I always talk about this, but the thing that got me, I think the closest to being cancelled by my own audience that I ever have been was I did an episode back in, I think it was 2020, like end of 2020 about the the problems with young men in our current society. And in looking back, I don't think I would change much about the episode, but maybe my tone could have been a bit different, but it was basically breaking down all the stats about young men, about the fact that young men are increasingly not getting driver's licenses. They're not moving out of their parents' homes. They're not getting jobs. They're, you know, falling behind in terms of higher education and women are surpassing them. And the driver's license one was the craziest thing to me because that is such an indicator of a lack of, you know, a literal drive to have independence, a drive to be able to go take a girl out on a date and pick her up. And that's just wild to me. Um, so I basically I did this episode and then I said like what what's wrong? Like what is happening? And it was kind of a call to action of if you feel like you are falling into any of these traps or you're part of these statistics like I'm just letting you know you're not alone but there also is room to you know you can change course you can change your life. These are small things like it's really not that hard to go get a driver's license. That is taking a huge step in your life. like going and getting even just like a part-time job is a great thing to add to your life, especially as a young man to encourage, you know, independence and responsibility. And I have never seen an angrier comment section. I mean, it was like I was heartbroken. Who's commenting? Men or women? Men. It was all of the men. And they were saying they were you like, "You don't understand us. This is so you're so awful. Why would you say this about us? You don't understand what it's like to be a man in 2022." I mean, so so angry, which is so ironic because I would also do episodes about that um or like that about women talking about, you know, women moving increasingly to the left, women and their promiscuity, women leaning into feminism, whatever it might be. And they were all for it and the women were all for it. It's it maybe because it's coming from a woman. Whereas if you have a guy that's like hating on girls online, every girl is like, "Oh my god, I'm not." You know what I mean? That's true. But then if it's a guy hitting hating on guys like, "Oh, you're fat. You're this, you're that." The guys are like, "Okay, you're right." You know? So that was the part that I didn't even consider because it's like, yeah, I do the show every day. I talk about these things. We talk about, you know, societal ills and problems and did not consider the fact that this was coming from a young woman and also just like knowing like especially at the time like I wasn't publicly with anybody. I wasn't married. I think that I was somebody that a lot of these guys probably looked to and liked. And to have like this figure in your life turn around and say, "Hey, if you don't have a driver's license, you should probably get your life together." Um, so yeah, that was like that was the most Yeah, it was like heartbreak because I felt so bad. It was like it was not my intention at all. Like this was supposed to be like a rallying cry. And so I ended up because of what you're saying, I was like, I think that's probably why. So I called Chris Williamson who's a good friend of mine. And I literally flew him out and I had him be on the show like two days later and had him watch the episode and I was like, do you think I should have, you know, said anything differently? And his take was also the same. He was like, no, I say these things all the time, but you're a woman. It's like women giving dating advice. of a woman because they don't know what they want. But I think young men in particular have that wall up. And it's funny you said all of that because Adam Corolla, who we just recently had on the podcast, said the exact same thing as you. He says his kids have zero drive to get their driver's license because they could stay home and just order an Uber if they need to get somewhere. They could order Uber Eats if they want food. Everything they need is at the house. If they want to hang out together, they could hang out like virtually and play video games together. It's wild. Kids these they don't want their driver's license. Like I remember turning 15 and a half on the day my permit. I know. And it's and even me as a woman like that was so I just had never even like there was nowhere in the world of like poss like realm of possibilities that I would not get my driver's license like you know on my 15th birthday going out and getting my learner's permit or whatever it is. And I had friends in LA um when I was still an actor out there. One of my best friends who was a year and a half older than me. Gosh, when I left LA, I was 19. She still didn't have her driver's license. She was 20 years old, lived at home, and her mom drove her to every audition, would drive her to if she had worked at a, you know, coffee shop for What was her reason? Would you ask her about this? Yeah, she was just like, "Why would I get one?" Like, "My mom could drive me." And her mom was like, "Okay." Yeah. I mean, it was So, is that her fault or is that her mom's fault? I think it's probably both. I think it's like because I I say both because at 20 years old, if you are, you know, you're not in college, but you've had a long career as a working actor, you make good money, you have a life. Like she was dating, she was going to parties. Like it was like her mom was like driving her to like house parties. And like I feel like there was something there where I was like, I didn't like would you want your mom dropping you off at like a guy's house that you're like sort of hooking up with? Like it's just like it's so like picking her up at like 8:00 in the morning heels in her hand. Yeah. Like that's just like I feel like as a like that's just weird a little bit. Like I as a young person I feel like no you you should but again maybe that's me projecting on you know people who don't have that same drive because it's a generational thing so that it goes back to the parents. But I was like don't you want that in don't you want to be able to like go get in your car and drive yourself to your place of work or to a party or whatever and feel like an adult? She's like, "No." And it was just so wild to me. And then also, it's for sure on the mom because she was enabling it. Whereas my mom, if I had done that, she would have had like a boot kicking my ass to the curb being like, I'm I've been driving children around for 30 years. Like, you're my last one. Is she an only child, your friend? Yeah, that's probably why. Mhm. Yeah. You're an only child, Graham. Yes. Takes one to no one. When would you say is the last time you changed your mind in a big way? I'm sure a lot of you guys remember that last year we actually had none other than Jordan Peterson here on this podcast. And on top of that just being an incredible episode, it was a massive personal milestone for me because I've listened to him for several years and he has absolutely changed my life with his lectures. Well, I'm so excited to announce a very special update from that episode. We have actually partnered with Peterson Academy to sponsor today's episode. For those unaware, Peterson Academy is Jordan Peterson's online university, and it's open for enrollment right now. If you love learning, want to study under worldclass professors, or have ever gained anything from Dr. Peterson's books, podcasts, or lectures, then this platform is for you. Every single month, Peterson Academy releases four new in-depth 8-hour university level courses taught by top experts across philosophy, history, psychology, science, business, and more. These courses are seriously designed to keep you guys engaged and they offer optional testing to solidify your understanding. Plus, there's also an online community where you can connect with other curious and ambitious learners. And it gets even better because Peterson Academy is getting funding and so they've dropped the price from $599 down to $399 for the year for access to more than 40 courses with four new ones being added every single month. They also offer you a 7-day money back guarantee, so there's no reason not to try it. Just go to petsonacademy.com today to get started. Again, that is petsonacademy.com/ic to start learning today. You guys will absolutely love it. Thank you so much to petersonacademy for sponsoring this episode. Hey, by the way, I just want to say we film this episode for about 4 hours long and sometimes, unfortunately with the YouTube algorithm, we can't post the entire thing. We have to edit certain parts down just for retention purposes and to maximize the reach it gets. So, if you want to see the entire episode completely uncensored, the entire thing, no cuts whatsoever and no sponsors and no ads, the link to that is down below in the description. You can join as a member and every episode from here on out, you're going to be able to see the full thing in its entirety and it helps out the channel tremendously. So, if you want to be a part of that and see all four hours of this episode, which was it was a lot. The link is down below for you to join and uh thank you so much. When would you say is the last time you changed your mind in a big way? I think the biggest one was becoming pro-life cuz I wasn't. Um, and I think I've had things where I've changed my perspective on things as I learn more information, as I have more experience, but nothing stands out like becoming pro-life was. Like that's like a major like complete 180 shift. And I think that was just, you know, I was raised in, you know, splitting my time between Tennessee and Los Angeles and I was, you know, in the Hollywood world and I just saw one thing and it I was raised by a mom who was very libertarian and we never really talked about abortion, but it made sense to me. It's like, no, why would I want the government to have any control over my body? like our whole I was raised to think that the government should not impact our personal lives. We want them as far away from us as possible. Um so this seems completely ridiculous. Like I really only saw the issue from that perspective. I wasn't looking at it as a form of female empowerment or anything else. It was strictly like man that's feels like overreach. That's ridiculous. Like I can do whatever I want. Um and then my mind started to change when I went to college and I saw that it was more of a cultural issue than I had ever known. like I was in a sorority and I met girls who were on their like third or fourth abortion and it was just something I was like yeah I'm just going to go and I was like wait wait wait this is this is not like safe legal and rare that I you know when I would read like think pieces from reason magazine and things like that um that's not what they were talking about here like this is a totally different issue when you get out into the real world and you look at young women um and young women but really I was faced with young women and also seeing the issue as a form of female empowerment as this like feminist rallying cry that I can just go sleep with whoever I want with no repercussions and let a guy like use my body and then I'll just go, you know, discard the consequences. And that was incredibly difficult for me to reconcile because, you know, I was raised with understanding the importance of personal responsibility. Like that that's the number one thing in our house growing up. My mom likes to say that she raised us based on the principle of I guess it's like natural consequence parenting is what they call it where you have to take responsibility for everything like if you make a choice you are going to deal with the consequences good or bad and that is your punishment basically like she's not going to go out of her way to punish you in some crazy way it's like no you will just have to deal with the consequences of what you did and I take that with me in my personal life outside of the home I mean it's just like that was it grew outside of my childhood obviously because that was such an um important principle that I was raised with. And so I was looking around the world that I was in. I was like, none of these women are taking responsibility. They are intentionally like going out to these frat parties and sleeping around and not being on birth control, not using a freaking condom that is so easy to acquire. And then they're just going to go and get their third abortion and act like it's nothing. And I was like, "Okay, so now this is an issue of a lack of personal responsibility." And so that is the first thing that really started to change my mind. Um, and of course you can make the argument about rape and incest, but that makes up 1% of abortion cases. And so it's like we can have that as a totally separate conversation and that's a very nuanced conversation. I think the entire abortion conversation should be one that is had with a lot of grace and a lot of empathy because it's, you know, I think I see it as black and white, but it's also not really because these are human lives and uh that are at stake and people are often in really awful situations. Um, and I think sometimes people on the right make it um make it hard to have people on the right and the left make it hard to have those kinds of nuance conversations because they get so angry and emotional about this issue specifically. But that was the first thing that really started to change my mind because it was just a lack of responsibility. And then I went home and I started talking to my mom about it and that's when I learned that my dad had wanted to have me aborted as a baby. And so that just completely blew it open because then suddenly I had like a personal tie to it where I was like, "Oh, I I couldn't like there's a possibility that I couldn't be here." And I think that, you know, my life has such value and I'm so important to this family and I'm you're like it was just like so mindboggling to me that that could all just be taken away. Um, and then it just continued spiraling to the point where it ended. That was like the last biggest like complete 180 on a policy. So, I'm curious. You talked about that on a recent podcast with Shawn Ryan and you were talking about your the relationship you had with your dad and some of the things that you might want to tell him. Did your dad reach out to you after that podcast about those? I don't think he's listened to it. I'm actually seeing him. I'm seeing him tomorrow and we're going to talk. I think we we might talk about I'm going to ask him if he'll watch it. Interesting. I don't know if he has watched it. I bet he has and maybe just wants to wait in person. We'll see. We'll see. But yeah, that's interesting. That'll be interesting to see how it how it goes because we've had kind of like I said on Sean's show, we've had these conversations and like bits and pieces, but they have often been very fraught with emotion. They've come um they've come up because of a conflict that is happening. And so I'd really love to be able to have it where it's like, no, we're just, you know, sitting down and talking through it because I think that there's something I think there's something really special that happens when you become an adult. And I also said this on Sean's show where you start to see your parents as humans, but where they also see you as an adult. And I think that was probably the last thing that needed to happen for my father and I where it's like I don't really need like I don't physically need him for anything. there wasn't anything that he held over me like I don't need money. I don't need uh I don't need to, you know, come home on spring break or whatever it might be. It's like no, we are two fully autonomous independent people who are going to choose to have this relationship. And I think that that's so powerful. I think that's why marriage is so powerful because you're this is like the person you're choosing. This is not somebody, you know, a family that you were born into. It's not blood, but you are choosing this. And I kind of see that in a way with, you know, a relationship that's like my dad's in mind where I'm making an active choice to try to fix this and make it better. Um, and I think taking away that, you know, like I need you or I'm dependent upon you is really really helpful in that regard. I think that's like I think that's the key to for setting boundaries in my mind. like you know why the boundaries have to be in place. And I think people are really great at setting boundaries, but it's hard to know when to kind of like remove the wall. And for me, it's like, have I done the work to put myself in a situation where I feel strong enough, secure enough, financially independent enough to be able to have this relationship and know that, yeah, it might not be perfect, but I can handle it and you can handle it. We're adults now. Um, so I think that's kind of where we're at. We'll be interested to see how the conversation How do you prepare yourself to have an uncomfortable conversation like that? Are you nervous? Not really. Really? It's funny. I am really bad at confrontation. Confrontation is really hard for me. I'm like a major people pleaser. But I'm pretty good at like hearttohe hearts. So if it's like angry and volatile, oh, I'm like a wimp. I just melt. Like there are situations where even recently like things I've been talking about with my team where it's, you know, people have requested meetings or xyz and I'm like that's not a room that I should be in. Like I know that I will agree to something, say something that I don't actually want to do or stand behind because I am desperate to like make a situation better or fix something and it's just like I can't. I just know myself too well and that's something I'm actively working on. Um, and that might come from being a child actor in Hollywood and the fact that your entire job is to try to like mold yourself to please people and also with my family and how chaotic it was. But um, yeah, confrontation is very very hard. But I know myself. So, but I in this kind of situation where it's like, you know, again, there's no volatile like there's nothing to be angry about now. It's like now we're just going to try to put the pieces together so we can have a great life together. What's something that you're hoping to understand from that conversation? You know, one thing I would love to understand, I guess it's kind of what this is a question I've always had is like what did my dad expect out of parenthood or what did he want? Cuz it was never really clear to me. It was always very clear with my mom. She like always wanted to have kids, was very intentional about the way that she parented, is still very intentional with the way that she treats us today as adults. And I never really understood with my dad like it was never he was in and out um you know without I always hate sort of questions like this because it's they're good questions but I'm always like how much of it is my story to tell and how much is his story to tell and that's very difficult but as a kid it's like you weren't always there like physically and emotionally and it was more about you than it was about like the family unit and your children and so were we the driving force or was it something else? It's just like that's always been a kind of a lingering question for me. Yeah. I think it could be scary to be like a parent. Oh, I'm sure. And so I think that's probably a lot of it. Yeah. And you know their marriage was not great and so they didn't have I don't I think I don't think they had the right I don't think he had the right partner to support him in that. I don't think my mom had the right partner which obviously makes it hard. So there was just a myriad of factors and he's become a much better partner post divorce and post us being adults which is unfortunate that didn't it didn't happen when we were you know younger but it's still like you know life doesn't get easier when you grow up. Your family unit doesn't become suddenly less complicated. like we're still dealing with the fact that my brother is still a schizophrenic and we deal with that every single day and my dad has become more and more involved in that which is so incredible because now my mom has another person that she can lean on when she has been the primary advocate and caregiver for years and years and years and I kind of like fell on me in a way and my dad wasn't involved and now he is. Um, and so I think it's, you know, your your family will continue evolving and changing and growing and life is always full of challenges and things you have to grow from and overcome. And so it's like if you can rebuild that foundation or just give it some uh give it some strength going into that, I think it's like better late than never. And I'm grateful that it's happening now at least. I think the idea of taking control of your life and taking maximal responsibility for where you are is really one of the most defining factors and like whether or not you're somewhat successful in your own regard or not successful. How do you think you were able to like face those challenges when you were younger but still go towards the light side rather than towards the other way around? Like what was the was it like you said how you faced consequences as a kid so you were forced to take responsibility for where you were at? I think that's a big part of it just because it was ingrained in my childhood and basically how I was disciplined and punished. So, it just kind of became um punished is a strong word because I was never What was like a consequence that you paid? Okay. I've never told this story. I once stole from a Goodwill. I went on like a shoplifting spree when you were uh like eight probably. And I Funny like this is a few months ago. Did you know how bad it was what you were doing or were you kind of just like h you I mean, like I sort of knew, but I was like, "It's a Goodwill." Like, "It's not that." We always They give their money to charity if you're going to take from anything. I know. But I was like, "It's so cheap." Um, but we like always shopped at thrift stores growing up. And we still do, but my mom like furnished our entire house with like consignment stores and Craigslist and Alex and I basically furnished our entire house also with like Facebook Marketplace, so it runs in the family now. But we would always go to Goodwill and I don't know why I like slipped these things into my pocket, but there were like these big like pieces of like costume jewelry that were like sitting up on the counter and I was just like, I'll take these. And my mom found out about it. And first of all, I think it really helps to have such a strong relationship with your kids and for your kids to respect the parent so much because the moment that my mom walked into my room and I saw it on her face, I was like, I'm like, I'm doomed. And I was so disappointed in myself because I could see that I had disappointed her. But I had to, you know, call them and say like, she gave me the phone number and I had to call and say, "I took necklaces from you." And then she had to drive me over and I had to walk in by myself and say, "I'm really sorry." And I was like, you know, bricks basically of like terrified of like if I'm going to go to jail or whatever it was. Um, but I had to go in and be like, "I'm really really sorry." And do like the have that uncomfortable conversation with this Goodwill, you know, manager who did not care. Was like, "I'm being paid by the hour. Why do I care if you stole a couple necklaces? But for me as a kid, I think it was probably seven or eight. Um, it was terrifying. And that's the example that always like sticks out. And I'm sure that there were more there were I don't remember what the consequence was, but there were things when I wouldn't be Oh, this was a big one. If I wasn't prepared, she wouldn't catch me. basically like I would do um I was in gymnastics, I did dance, I play the violin for a little bit and I had did um like piano and singing and I had to you know you have to study before all that or you have to work on your routine or you have to stretch and we had like a little my mom had made gotten all these mats for our garage and so I could like practice my gymnastics and if I came unprepared there was no like oh she was really busy with school or whatever it was like yeah sorry, you weren't prepared, so you have to go on stage and do your violin recital and you don't know the song. And it was like the natural consequence of that. There was no like she was like, "Yeah, you want to do this, you know, sing the song, you want to, you know, do the dance stance recital, whatever it may be. I'm not going to keep you in line and put you on a schedule to make sure that you're ready. You just have to do it. And if you don't, then you're going to get up on stage and you're going to be unprepared in front of people that you respect." Embarrassment is really like the best learning lesson out there. Oh, yeah. And been both of those. I was embarrassed. Yeah. And then you're embarrassed in front of your parent that you respect so much. And then I because it was so ingrained in me. I was so disappointed in myself was like I know I can be better. I'm better than this. So I think I probably started it from a young age. But also I think like I don't know if it's a personality trait or something, but I was always and it's so weird to say this like now I look at young kids and I'm like are you guys having thoughts that are like this? I remember being super young, like being somewhere in like the 8 to 11 range and being like just looking around at my family and my world and going this is not normal. Like this is very dysfunctional and intentionally being like this isn't what I want for my life. It was like so clear how dysfunctional and how unhappy it was. Um I think I was really blessed to, you know, see great examples of families and, you know, parents who really loved each other, um and kids who seem to have really great home lives. And I was like, I want that. Like, I know it's out there. And so, I think from a young age, I was kind of I knew that my situation was not normal and I didn't want it to I never wanted to feel like that was normal. So, I was always kind of thinking about breaking a cycle. Yeah. You unlocked a memory when you were talking about stealing stuff. Oh, no. I stole I stole something, J. I stole two. You stole two. I was probably about 6 years old and there was a place my mom would take me to go and get haircuts. And then after you get a haircut, being like six years old, the bull cut, you know, the '90s bull cut. Uh they would have this um basket of candy and you get to take a piece of candy after you got the haircut. Well, I took a piece of candy and then no one was looking and I grabbed another piece of candy. It was a lollipop. And I remember uh pulling it out like in the car and my mom was like, "You grabbed another one?" And I I I think I lied. I was like, "No, I didn't." But I remember her taking me back in and apologizing to the person and putting it back and I was so humiliated that one I was caught but then also I have to go and say sorry to them and like yeah that was the last time I did that. That's hilarious cuz you haven't changed at all. Like that didn't make an impact on Graham. No like anytime we go anywhere Graham's always trying to get more than whatever he paid for. Not in like a way of like overt stealing like thievery but he will do that. I negotiate the high of that second law. I just tried to negotiate. I got a discount recently. The second one's better than the first cuz you know like I got a discount recently on car repairs. Macy's car went into the shop and I got like 300 bucks off just asking. I don't know if this is like a male or female thing cuz I don't know if you like negotiate. I hate negotiating. I hate it. It makes me really uncomfortable. Really? Okay. So maybe I don't know but like my husband it's like I cannot get on the phone and do anything like that. like he just bought his little sister's new car for her. Like she's buying it, but he called the dealership, got the whole deal, negotiated down this thing, and he's not even being a like playing hard ball or anything. He's just asking very pointed questions like, "Hey, we got, you know, we got this offer from another dealership." And I would be like, "No, I'm playing." It's a people pleaser cuz I associate with that, too. Graham is absolutely not that type. And he will negotiate. I get such like like a win from this. Like I just unlocked another one. Um, we replaced tires on the car and the price was was a price that I thought was a little high. Okay. And so I got the price down and I said, "How about this? How about can we throw in at least a year warranty on the tires?" And the guy behind the counter was thought about, "Yeah, you know what? I could do that." And so I got a discount on the tires plus a one-year warranty on the tires. That would have never even by asking and this is like a few hundred bucks. Yeah. And so when I look at the time, I'm like, I spent 5 minutes on that call and I saved 200 bucks. That's a great ROI on the time. And you could do this across anything. I think I think that's good. And I think in a relationship, one of the people, it's good to have one of them to be that person because otherwise be a mess. Yeah. That's why I have a really good lawyer to do that for me. Well, Alex will also do it for me, but that's why I have somebody else. So, so if you get a steak or something and it comes out, you order it medium rare, comes out like, you know, well done or medium well, will you say something or do you No, I have Alex say it. Yeah. Okay. I'm the same way. I'm just like I can't. Graham will come like he'll sit down at a restaurant that's packed with people and be like, "It's a little chilly in here." Like, "Excuse me, waiter. Can you bring it up a couple?" I love that though. My big thing is the music. If the music in the restaurant's too loud, he talks about it. I'll say I'll say, "Can you just turn down the music a little bit?" And it's like you're the you're like a good Karen. You're like somebody who's like helping like Karen's get such a bad rap, but you're like making the entire experience better. I won't do it unilaterally. Like if we're in a group, I'll get the group consensus like, "Hey, is it just me or is the music kind of loud?" Jack will be like, "Yeah, the music's a little loud. Is the music loud?" Yeah. Okay. Then I'll say a case. It's not just like I'm the only one. Like, "Are you cold?" "Yeah, you're cold. You're cold. You're cold." Making the experience better for everyone. Exactly. And then the music turns down. Mhm. No. So, it works. Yeah. Okay. I love that you guys have Magic Mind because I used to take those. I think they were like worked on comment section for a while as an advertiser. Really? Yeah. That's so cool. You know what's funny? They uh they sent us these like over a year ago. Like not these ones, but I started drinking them and I had them before every single podcast we would film. No joke. And then I accidentally put these in my backpack and we arrived somewhere and I was looking through. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I got magic mind." And so I gave them to Jack. And what's cool about these is that we could take them through TSA and they're below the liquid limit. Really? So yeah. Oh, I didn't even think about that. That's actually sick. I I stuff like six of these in my backpack. I take them everywhere we go and we have them during every single podcast. And then they reached out afterwards like, "Can we sponsor your podcast?" We're like, "Absolutely." So it's because of Magic Mind that we're able to go and like actually rent out a full-on studio like this. The uh the flights here for some reason were really expensive for Jack and I. I don't know. Really expensive. They were actually to come here. Text me. He's like, "Oh, shoot man." Like these. You know what was funny? I was actually trying to like price match the I was like taking a look at the prices and watching the prices. That's not going to drive. Magic Mind makes it possible. So, if you guys want to try them out, the link is down below in the description. They're kind enough to sponsor the podcast. And they taste amazing. It's like an energy mental performance shot. It's how I'm able to stay like so focused on a bit of a lack of sleep. This is this would be my second one now that I've had today. So again, the link is down below in the uh description. We got a special coupon code for you guys to get started. They're honestly delicious. They actually are. That's it's like shocking. You would expect something like that to be nasty and they taste fantastic, actually. They really do. Well, we'll talk to them and we'll have them sponsor you guys, too. What would you say is the most unfair criticism you've received since getting popular? just it's like, "Oh, she's super hateful just because of my politics." Um because that's only a com that's like the most common thing that I'll get from people who dislike me or disagree with me. And I think it's unfair because it's more of an ad hominant attack rather than looking at the actual issue that I'm presenting. And I also in terms of people who are online talking about political and social things feel like I'm a lot more relaxed than a lot of people. And I also approach things with more of a common sense perspective. And I think I'm a lot more empathetic than many people online, like where a lot of people are just trying to get clicks or whatever it might be or say the thing that is the most outlandish. Like I really try to avoid doing that, especially with this new show where I have more time like during the week to put the episodes together and I have, you know, these are longer episodes than my original like 8 to 10 minute things. Like I'm really really trying to be intentional about am I understanding every side of this issue? Am I talking to the right people? Am I offering a, you know, a broad overview of it so that I can really get to the crux of the issue and make sure that everybody like is heard where it's not just me blabbering on. And so I think that's always felt a bit unfair cuz it's but also I don't think it's totally unfair cuz I don't know me. So, it's hard for me to say that because it's like like if you watch the video in full, like I'm not like what you see that somebody clipped on TikTok really isn't the entire picture of what I'm making. So, in that way, it kind of feels unfair, but that's also just the internet. And I can't expect people to watch every video. And also, yeah, and they don't know me. They don't know what my intentions are. I can't make that, you know, totally clear in every single second of everything that I do. Where do you draw the line between how much you're willing to share and be public about? I think it is like a case-bycase basis because I just did this like four-hour long interview where I basically shared everything there is to know about my childhood and that sort of thing. That was more than I had ever done before. I shared a lot more than I ever anticipated and I had a conversation with Alex the night before. We were driving back from dinner at Shawn's house and we had a long conversation about my brother because I was kind of giving Shawn the update about what was going on with my brother Reed and you know he had just gotten to Tennessee and he was in this hospital and he had asked if we could talk about it and I was like I'll let you know in the morning. I was kind of going over all this again because of what I was saying of like it's my story but it also is somebody else's story and it's really like that is really hard for me. Whereas I think if you are somebody who doesn't have a platform and you're not going to be on a podcast with millions and millions of views, it's like I'm just going to tell my friend about what's going on in my personal life and what's happening with my brother and the last time that I went and like went to visiting hours and that's like it just feels totally different than when you're like sitting down and you know it's going to be super public. And so, you know, I was talking with Alex about that and he was like, "If there's a, you know, if there's any podcast, do it on is like Sean Ryan." Uh, for sure. Like that's kind of what people, you know, go on and they uh they trauma dump in a really beautiful way. Um, but that was like talking about my dad's attempt. I ne like I never thought I would ever talk about that ever. And that was something that was so like I felt protective over him, but I also felt shame from my side because it's just like another layer of this like story of like oh this kid and she had all this crap going. Anyway, it was just very complicated and I think it's something that I've carried with me more than I really thought. Um, I like genuinely never thought I would ever talk about it and it just, you know, kind of spur of the moment came out and I talked to my mom right after and I was like, "Hope nobody's angry, but I talked about this." So, I think that it's case by case of, you know, what am I willing to share? And I also think it comes down to like how important is it? Like I felt like in the moment talking about my dad's attempt was important because it was something I hadn't shared before. And it's also something that I carried a deep sense of again it was like shame and confusion over and I felt very lonely. I'd never I didn't know anybody else who had had anything like that. Um, but I know that there are people who have gone through that and whose parents have actually been successful in their, that's a hard horrible way to say that, but have actually committed. And it's incredibly, it's like an awful club to be in. And it's like, if I could help somebody by sharing that, if I could maybe make somebody feel less alone, then there's a positive to it. But it's like, what's the positive of just like letting a reporter into my house, I guess. And so if I think that it can do some good and shed light on an important issue or make people feel less alone then I will absolutely talk about it with as much grace and you know protecting the people that I want to protect. Um but if it you know if that same outcome can be achieved without me exposing people in my life or exposing a bunch of like personal things then yeah. What were some of the letters you received or the reception from about that? 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What were some of the letters you received or the reception from about that? The most amazing ones were I'll tear up talking about this. I got two emails from kids who went to high school with my brothers who just had no idea who I was, didn't know that I had a show, but like listened to Sean. M and they found my manager's email and sent me these long notes about the impact that my brothers had made on their lives. And it came at like the perfect time because my mom has been really kind of going through it at the moment and we're having to make some hard decisions about my brother um the surviving twin. and to get these letters from these young men who knew them, who still think about David and the impact that his death had on them and that his life had on them. Um, and being worried about Reed and, you know, saying he was so wonderful and we had so many great memories together and we were on this team together. I was like that was so special and I had you know my biggest fear is that they're forgotten and because their lives their lives are important and they did make an impact and as everybody's lives move on you can't expect that everybody's lives like continue to revolve around these people that are so important to you and even though it's like my life still kind of does revolve around them in a lot of ways I think about both of them every single day um it's really really beautiful and healing to have people come out of the woodwork and say I still think about them, they've still made an impact. I tell people stories about them. It's like that's the most special thing. That's all you can hope for. So, that was wonderful cuz I especially with David, I never want anybody to, you know, forget his name. Um, so that was a big part of it. And I've just gotten so many DMs from people who are in similar situations, but and some that are even worse, especially with family members with severe mental illness, who just feel so stuck. Mhm. And I don't feel like my family is fully stuck, but the system is really not set up to help people like my brother succeed. And it's not set up to help the family succeed at all. And again, kind of being on the other side of it, it was very validating, I think, for people who listen to Sean's interview and for then me to receive DMs like this for people to say like, "We're also in the trenches. Like, it's not just you. We also have no idea what to do with long-term care. There are no long-term care options for, you know, people with schizophrenia or, you know, serious mental health issues where they cannot be in the home. Yeah. For mental health, how would you change the system? Uh, the first thing that I would do if I was in charge was would be to change the the diet and lifestyle of patients like my brother who are in um mental health facilities and treatment centers where, you know, I've been doing a lot of research recently trying to figure out uh what options are available to us as a family and to him. And there are some great ones and there's like private ones and they're very expensive and you look at all these things and everything that they offer and there's nothing about nutrition or lifestyle. Meanwhile, you have all of these studies that are coming out that have been coming out for years, but it's like people are just now catching on about the impact of sugar and glucose on the brain of the gut brain connection of the fact that and we know anecdotally people who have had major success in completely changing their diets and being able to control their schizophrenic uh symptoms, their bipolar symptoms. Um, and you go into these hospitals and it's like I'll go visit my my brother and we sit down in this like very cold sterile, you know, cafeteria. Also, the environment of these hospitals, it's literally like a jail. Um, and it's, you know, kind of has to be that way in some cases because there's a lot of people who are a danger to society and so it's it's a locked facility. Um, but it's incredibly sterile. I can't hug my brother when I It's I'm not in this facility specifically. I can't I'm not allowed to hug. You can't touch and it's like when they turn their back like I was there with a nurse a couple of weeks ago and she was like I'm you know you're not supposed to hug but she like turned around and walked out the room so I was able to give them a hug but it's so cold and so that's a whole but we like back to the food part. We sit down and we were having this conversation and they'll bring us some food like do you want any snacks? And they'll bring like a soda and a bag of honey grams. And I'm like, Reed, what are you eating in here? And it's like awful, awful hospital food. And it's like you have this it's not you have this incredible unfortunate opportunity where it's like somebody like my brother who might be on like a 5150 hold, which is a um like they did not check themselves in, they were brought in by the police. you have an incredible opportunity where they can't leave to try to make some change in their lifestyle. Whether that is working out if there is an area where they can go take a walk or even if it's just, hey, we're not going to give you honey grams. We're going to make sure that you are eating a high protein, you know, lower carb diet that, you know, hopefully we could clean up your, you know, your gut health, have some kombucha or, you know, something. Yeah. There's nothing. And it's like my brother has, he was in, he was in a hospital in Idaho for three years. on an involuntary hold and we weren't able to see him uh at all throughout that three-year period because it was kind of on the tail end of COVID. They had really really strict regulations, no visitors allowed. So, he was in this awful awful environment. That's where he went non-verbal. He doesn't speak anymore. So, sometime in that 3 years in this, you know, I'm grateful that he was safe, but it definitely was not the most nourishing environment. He stopped speaking. Um, but he was there for 3 years and nothing changed. It only got worse. Do they have him in isolation? It's very isolated. Yeah, they have like they'll have a roommate and that kind of thing. Yeah. If if that's the point where he stops speaking, there's got to be something there. That seems like it would not like even hold it at the same level, but it would get worse if you're if you can't even hug him, it makes him not only he feels inhuman. Yeah. It makes him feel like crazy. But the diet too, like serving sodas, it seems like that's the easiest thing to fix. serve water and that's cheaper than soda. I mean, it feels so common sense of like maybe it won't fix all the problems, but it could certainly help them feel a little better. I mean, just like if I go out and, you know, I have a margarita and I have a big thing of chips and queso and I get like get a skillet cookie at the end of the night, I feel like crap the next morning. We all do. your brain feels icky and it's like imagine already dealing with the weight of a serious mental illness and you feel like that 24/7 with the addition of the crap food that they're feeding you. It's just it's a poly because you have this again you had three years with my brother and he went backwards. I guess like what as a society do we do with individuals who like the system is not actually trying to rehabilitate and again the asyl the asylum system was not perfect but there was a long-term solution and so I think that I mean that is the reason why homelessness is the way that it is across the country and you know Donald Trump has talked about this in like passing of like we need to bring back some sort of system to help clean up our streets because in my experience of you Reed was homeless for many years of going out and finding him and being with him and engaging with his homeless community. They're not like down on their luck trying to get a job. Like those people, they get to a homeless shelter, they get a room, they get a job, and the they take all of the resources and they put them to getting their life back on track. The majority of the people that Reed was around that I interacted with that we engaged with on this like entire weird journey of kind of him being homeless and I guess of just my adolescence. They all were basically choosing to be homeless because they made a lot of money from the government because it was easier to get drugs and because they were crazy and didn't want to have a job or couldn't have a job and or they were like too mentally ill to be accepted into homeless like shelters. Yeah, that's been our experience in Los Angeles cuz we close by Venice and just a lot of what we saw was not people down on their luck. I'm sure that existed. And it's weird because I I did a lot of research because I saw the problem that's getting worse. And the studies show that a lot of these people are down on their luck. Yeah. And the studies say that it's because rental prices are too high and rent control isn't protective enough and it's kicking people out. But what I've seen 90 plus% is more mental health drugrelated issues. And I don't know what came first if it if it was drugs and then mental health or mental health which then led to drugs but that's what I saw and a lot of the people just aren't in the mental capacity to ever work to get into uh homeless shelters to try to pull themselves up and they're just kind of left on the street in a in a halfway house. Right. Yeah. Like it's my brother has been able to be in halfway house situations where it's like he gets money from the government and that he uses that to pay his rent and there will be like a person that is there to help him drive around and get groceries and take you to your doctor's appointment and they like check on you and make sure you're good and you're there but there are times when he has not even been fit enough to be in that environment and where they've like all right here's your new room and then it's like okay no he's not there yet. It's it's a very nonpartisan issue that I wish was talked about more and like I see like as you were talking about the studies like the ACLU is so against bringing back any kind of like long-term care cuz they're like no we need like community support and rental prices need to go down but I'm like again you're missing like the crux of the issue. Um so yeah I hope that there can be some change. I'm you know talking to some folks about like what hopefully I could do with this platform but um it's very hard. It impacts obviously millions of millions of people. So I don't even know what the what the real solution is, but what's happening now is not working and it's not working for families. It's not working for the men and women that are in these situations and it's certainly not working for our cities based on what we're seeing on the streets. I mean, it's just like a a desolate Yeah. desolate system. Is there anything that you've regretted being so open about or that you look back on and just think, I wish I didn't say that or I wish I didn't share this part of myself? I don't think so. I think even if there are things where people have had opinions on them or it's like it's still my life. Yeah. Um and it hasn't made a huge impact on me. I've often gone back and forth about and we did prior to doing this but like of Alex having any kind of like public anything. Um, and we ended up, and I'm glad that we did because I think hiding it only makes, you know, people don't know anything that they want to. It was just hard for him cuz people were like finding out things about him and looking into his family and that kind of stuff. Um, did people find it? Because I remember you posted a photo. I think you put like a like an emoji over his face or there was like you guys hugging, but it was like the back of his It was when we got engaged. It was the first time I had ever talked about ever being in a relationship or even like showed remotely who he was. And it was just the back of his head. And I was like cuz I think people should know that I'm like you see a ring on my finger like engaged. Um and then we kind of had six months of figuring out whether he wanted his face to be shown or whether he wanted to be talked about. Um did people guess it right in the beginning? Cuz I saw like a lot of the comments were like I think it's this person. and they'd start linking to profiles and like doing detective. There were a couple people who like through Reddit had like known somebody who knew me and said something there and they were like, "Okay, I'm looking at the back of his head and I could see this tagged photo. This guy looks like I mean it was just a whole thing." And so that was so a few people did get it right. Oh yeah. Yeah. And I think that was one of the reasons where I was like, "Okay." And Alex and I had a conversation and um I was like, "They're going to find out who you are anyway and so you just tell me what you want to And he was like, "Yeah, I don't care. Like, as long as you're protected, that was his like main thing is like, as long as you are safe and our family is safe, like I'll do whatever it needs to be." But it was like I never wanted to like thrust that upon him and be like, "Here's my new boyfriend. Like, take a picture." Cuz that's like any part of you that thought maybe I should just leave this separate and never mention it. There was, but I didn't feel like that was I didn't feel like that was super genuine because I share so much else. Like even on comment section, which is like a new show, I think the reason why it kind of worked and was different than a lot of other like newsy shows was because it wasn't just that I was reading headlines and going through stories, but I was relating it to things in my life. I was sharing stories of, oh, I had this experience. I talked very openly and I felt like if I just completely hide this and close it off and especially with being I think that might be easier for older generations or people that are more in like the news corporate media where you kind of just know them as you know the woman that you see on your TV but you don't know anything about your personal life. But it's like I had a huge social media following. People would I would post things about my personal life on Instagram. I would share these personal stories on YouTube. It's like that feels like a very a very just weird thing to hide and I didn't feel like didn't feel right to me because it was going to this was obviously impacting a lot of you know the moves that I would be making and the things that I believe and the things that were happening in my life. Uh and it was like what if one day I just pop up and I'm pregnant. People are like what happened there? Like it's just crazy. Um, so the thought did cross my mind because it's definitely easier and you want to protect somebody that you love. And I was like, I've chosen to be somebody that's online, but you didn't. And so, I mean, it's kind of choosing by marrying me, but this wasn't your uh your end all beall, and that's one of the reasons why I love him is because he's so private. So, I'm curious cuz I see some of the comments and it seems like a lot of guys have internet crushes on you. Did that lead to a weird dynamic between you and your now husband? Not at all. Cuz he was, I think, unthreatened. He was just like, "That's fine." Um, but yeah, I'm asked about that a lot. And, you know, I'm not somebody who feeds into it. I think that it would be a very different conversation if I was a girl who like posted bikini photos all the time and was on like Only Fans or whatever it is, but I it's like it's just being a girl on the internet and people are going to think what they're going to think and that's fine. And I if you are posting the like sad gifts every time I post any picture, like that's fine. I laugh about it. Um, I know he looked at it as just kind of like that's really sweet. That's like great and he's not threatened by it at all. He's like the most like understated, secure, unflapable man I've ever met. Would you say that's boosted your confidence overall? Like all of those comments and the memes and everything or would you say it's been an overall negative thing? Oh gosh. I think it's been kind of neutral because it just overwhelmed me at first. Like when I saw that I was like, "Oh, I just I don't know. I don't put myself out there that I don't even like think of myself as any kind of I don't know it's weird to think of yourself in some kind of like like romantic or like oh people like you way like it's like very weird. Um and so they just like crack me up I guess. But yeah, it's not a the negative part of it comes when there's like people that are like too obsessed and then it becomes like physical and you encounter it in your real life and then it's like okay well then have you encountered that? Yes. What's been the experience? Um, thankfully it's few and far between, but um, and I've not had to have like physical altercations or that kind of thing, but I do have, as I think most, especially like women in the public eye, like I've had a few stalkers and that kind of thing and men who have like moved to Nashville. Are you serious? Yeah. And have a great team and thankfully I'm able to like Holy crap. have people who are really good at what they do, who, you know, um, make sure that I'm protected. But I think that that's where when it crosses the line of like, oh, that's really sweet. You like me, and, you know, like, oh, I want a wife like Brett. I want a girl like Brett. I'm like, that's great. That's really sweet. I hope you find them. Like, that's awesome. But when it crosses the line of like, oh, this is the emails are threatening or this is odd and why are you following my friends around? like thankfully they have not like gotten to me but like gotten people close to me. Um and that's something it was interesting. I was asked about that recently for a piece and um the reporter was asking if that was like if it had become normal. It's like no that's not normal. Like you become accustomed to it and you become I guess accustomed is not even the right word. You kind of become prepared and you have like a system in place and it's like it's not shocking to me. Um but I never want that to be normal. I never I think it's a very weird like wrinkle in the human experience to have so many eyes on you and to like be thinking about that and I never want it to be something that's like oh yeah stalker or whatever. It's like no that's never that's like objectively weird fending them off. Um, but yeah, so that's just kind of a it unfortunately comes with the territory, but for like for 99% of the time, like I genuinely I have the most incredible like community of people who watch my show, who engage with my content. Like they're so smart. They're so kind. They care so much about personal development is like the biggest thing that I see. Like the questions that I get are not questions about like what are you wearing or like what do you use to do your hair? Like I'll get like one girl ask that if I like she sees me at an event or something like that or even like asking to like date me or whatever it is. They're, you know, they're emotional questions. They're like I'm trying to figure out what I want to do with my life and I have these four paths that are ahead of me. Like I could just go work for my family's company. I could go um intern here. I could go to a trade school. I could opt out of college. Whatever it is and I'm really struggling. It's like intense things that they are that a lot of young people are kind of muddling through and figuring out. And like those are the big questions that I I would love to see you give business advice where people could call in in their 20s and just say I have these paths just like you said. Should I do this business or this business? I want to hear you just break it apart. That's right. I do some um so I was obsessed with Dear Abby growing up and that was like the column in the newspaper. Um and so I have something on my like subscriber platform. It's called Cooper Confidential where it's called Dear Brett. And so people send in questions and then I like pick five or six of them and people can upvote and downvote what they want to hear. Um and I go through and we basically do that. Um and they range from like career advice and school advice to like family things. Because I think I mentioned this one on the Sean interview, but there was a girl who um I think the last two really meaningful ones were there's a young woman whose grandfather had has Parkinson's and he had like lashed out at her and had physically hurt her by accident. and she kind of knows a little bit of my story about my brother. And obviously if you have ever met anybody with schizophrenia, there are, you know, there are things that can happen and um especially when they are u in a psychotic state. And she was like, "How do you separate like loving this person for who you know they are with kind of who they are right now and setting boundaries and keeping yourself safe?" And she was like, "I don't." She's like 15 years old. She's like, "I don't know how to." And it was a very insightful question to be able to like word it in that way. And she was like, I want to be able to my grandfather lives like near me and my mom is a caretaker for him and I see him all the time, but now he's, you know, getting physical and we're having to bring in extra care and there are boundaries that are being set and how like how are you able to still love somebody and care for them and be like be the same person for them that you always have been while having this in the back of your head? And it's a very hard question to answer and it's really so she kind of like answered it for herself if you just really have to separate it and know that you know the person that you love and care for they're still in there but it's not who they are anymore and so you kind of have to treat the situation as such. You don't have to treat them as such but you just have to treat the situation with an air of caution. Um but that was a really meaningful and insightful question. I had another young man write in and say like, you know, I'm somebody who everybody has always like basically told me I'm gay and I'm more feminine. And this guy's like in his 20s. He was like, I was raised as a Christian, but because everybody told me I was gay and that maybe I should even that maybe I was actually trans, I've kind of drifted away. But he was like, "I am, you know, I love my faith and I'm more of like a common sense conservative, but I feel like I don't fit in there because I look at, you know, right-wing accounts on X who are perpetrating one version of masculinity, and I don't fit into that, but I I am not gay." And he was like, "Am I ever going to like meet a woman? Like, what do I like, what do I do?" It was just this very It was like a guy that truly like felt stuck in the middle of like this kind of weird culture war and this war of identities. And my answer was as simple as like, you know, I think you everybody at some point in their life needs to hear that it's like no human being is the same. Like we're all very very different and the way you present or the way your personality might be perceived by people does not determine who you're attracted to or what your values are. And if you know you are surrounded by people who are projecting that on you, those aren't good people to be around anyway because they don't understand you at your core. Um, and I think that's a huge reason for why we see such a rise in, you know, gender confusion and young people, especially young women, who feel so out of place. I mean, that's how I felt going through puberty. I felt so out of my body and so weird that I like tried to be as butch as possible. Like, I feel like if I didn't have the mom that I had uh in the community that I did, I would definitely be somebody who would be like, am I like a lesbian? Am I like trans? Like, I I don't fit in it. like I'm so I was so uncomfortable being a woman at like 14 years old. Um and when you have people who just slap identities on you and you're like oh well if you dress like that then you're this. If you don't feel like this way as a woman then you're that. Um and so it's like that kind of nuance is hard but it's like those are hard questions. Those are deep things that people are muddling through. Uh, and I'm really grateful that that they feel comfortable that there's like a space where they can ask those questions and we try to like work through them together because it's like I don't know everything. I'm 23 years old. I've been around the block a couple of times, but I know everything. But I think it's sometimes as simple as just kind of like breaking down the question and hopefully trying to offer some clarity and even if it's just like empowerment and affirmation of like you're on the right path. I know it might seem crazy right now and it might seem alienating. Like you're obviously by asking these questions, you're in you're on the right path. Like you're in tune with what you know to be true or what you want for your life, but you might just need somebody, you know, outside of your community or your family or this like crazy weird like bubble of social media to say like you're doing okay. Um, so yeah, but that's really really special. It's just a it's just a really great community. So my whole point in saying all of that is like 99% of all the interactions are so positive. They're so great and it like makes me love what I do because I get to, you know, they make me better. They make I always say they, you know, by doing the work that I do in the show and meeting people in real life who are reading the comments and getting these questions, it makes me more articulate. It makes me more thoughtful. I think I've become so much more empathetic by having a show every day and talking about my values and going through new stories and dealing with, you know, cultural issues people are debating. Um, so it makes me better. I hope it, you know, impacts their life in a positive way. So it's like I get 99% of the time and I have 1% stock. So speaking with so many people, do you think dating now just from what you've seen is harder or are people just getting too emotionally weak? I think it's probably a mix of a lot of those factors. I think dating is objectively harder because the social norms have changed where it's like, and I always say this too, Jenzie wasn't taught how to date. Like I don't know what your first experience was like asking a girl out or dating, but I got asked out for the first time. My first few dating experiences were all digital Snapchat, Instagram DM, joining my sorority at college and being like, "Why are you not on Hinge? You need to be on like Tinder and Hinge." And then like had my met my first boyfriend on Hinge. And I was only asked out in person. Alex was like, he's the only one that I remember. And I I don't I want to make sure I'm not just saying that because I married him, but no, I had one other guy I met in person. Everything else was like text digital started dig like I the art of flirting of like sending signals of making like women who like won't freaking make eye contact or smile and like show a guy that they're interested and then men who obviously it's a scary time to just go up and ask a woman out especially if she's not giving you signals and it's already hard to be a guy asking somebody out. Um but it's like that little like dance of dating. I feel like Jenz just didn't Yeah. So what's the move? Is it just to get a number and then once you get a number then it's text or like I guess number it's Instagram or Snapchat and then it's like hey you want to meet up. Is that the So my recommendation is it is so it's not even like some new innovative thing. It's to be in like organized groups because I think for a lot of people there's a social barrier of like comfortability of asking somebody out or approaching for the first number or even like sparking a conversation cuz they're like I don't know this person. It's very uncomfortable to just go up to somebody in a bar or Home Depot. I would get asked out in like Home Depot when you know before I was I mean even still I got asked out in Home Depot like 6 months ago but that's like a bit weird like and I say this to somebody who has like a very high tolerance like I don't go around saying people are like creeps or whatever but having like a random guy like kind of follow you through the store and be like did he see the ring on the finger or he didn't like see? It doesn't matter. What did he say? Um, this one wanted my Snapchat so that we could go out and I was like, you're like 30 years old. Like I wanted I don't think so. He didn't act like it. Okay. Yeah. But it's like that and that's objectively like I feel for the guy cuz that's like that's hard to do regardless to just like go up to a random girl, but it's also like weird for the girl. And so to make the situation easier for this like digitally stunted couple of generations where everybody's online and the landscape is really weird. It's like Miss Williamson talks about this a lot. It's like run clubs and pickle ball clubs have become like the new dating apps basically. And the reason why is because you're now going to a place regularly with a semi-regular group of people. Like you're going to see the same people week over week. And so you can spark up a conversation with very very low stakes of like oh hey you know what are you listening to? I think that's higher stakes cuz you see them every week and you're in the same group and you know like Well, I think she's saying not in like a manner of hitting on them but in a manner of just like opening up dialogue. Yeah. I think of just like starting the conversation because there's so many like okay you have to think about how unsocialized people are right now especially coming on the heels of co where it's like I can't even go and talk to somebody in person. So if you just to get off the app of just like make a friend of just like being comfortable sparking up conversation so that you get in the habit of doing that and then if you have a conversation for 3 or 4 weeks see you know am I getting good signals? Do I know if she's single? Do I know if he's interested? Whatever it is and then it creates an environment that's like okay we can go out and then it's also I think low stakes because it's a run club. You can find another run club. Like it's not like it's at work. Okay. Those are like high stakes. Alex and I dated when we worked at the same place and that's like I was always very against that but I kind of like knew I was going to marry him immediately so I felt okay with it. Um but in those environments it is it feels very low stake and then but it it creates the like the social foundation to be able to have those conversations and then like move to like flirting and asking out uh and it feels less precarious for the man and the woman in my opinion. Um yeah. So why do you think it is? A lot of women say they want a traditional man, but they will reject those traditional values. Now, before we go into that, you got to ask yourself the question, what does the future hold for business? Because if you ask nine different experts, you're going to get 10 different answers from a bull market, a bare market. Rates are staying the same, they're going down. Be very helpful to have a crystal ball at this point. 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Again, netswuite.com/istic with the link down below in the description. Thank you so much Netswuite for sponsoring this episode. And now, let's get back to the podcast. Now, at this point, you might be asking yourself, what makes a leader stand out? Because it's not just about taking charge, but about setting new standards and embracing bold moves. That's why if you lead by example and live with passion, then our sponsor, the Range Rover Sport, is made for you. Every model of the Range Rover Sport, offers a unique blend of dynamic sophistication and sporting luxury. It's where refined elegance meets visceral power. With focused on-road performance and worldrenowned off-road capability, this vehicle rises to every occasion. Experience the adaptive off-road cruise control that adjusts to your terrain and dynamic air suspension for superior agility and control. Plus, adaptive dynamics ensures smooth, composed handling by minimizing unwanted body movements. For those who elevate their desires and lead by example, the Range Rover Sport is more than just a luxury vehicle. It's a statement. And you can build your own Range Rover Sport today at range.com/us/sport. Again, that is range.com/ us/sport. Thank you so much, Range Rover Sport, for sponsoring this episode. Yeah. So why do you think it is? A lot of women say they want a traditional man, but they will reject those traditional values. Why do you think that is? Women are confused. I don't know. It's like I try to muddle through all the female problems. I think that there's something innate in women. Obviously, it's biological to want a guy to care for you and be able to protect, provide. I don't even mean like financially provide, but just like that emotional security. And so, I think women seek that out. um whether they really know it or not, but then I think that they aren't totally prepared for what comes with getting a more traditional guy. Like especially when you find like a really traditional guy who's like, "No, I like would love for you to stay home with the kids and um like I don't really want you to be posting your ass on social media or whatever it is." Like there are just kind of standards I think that come with that. Like if you're going to date like a player guy who isn't really thinking about marriage, who um doesn't really care if you stay home with the kids or whatever it is, it's probably fine if you guys are both out doing your thing and posting whatever you want to post and talking with whoever. But when you get into those situations where you have like a man with or a woman with standards, I think you either have to rise and meet those standards and work together or it's just never going to work. Um, so I think that might be part of it, but I also think women are again there's this innate desire and then there is what women are taught socially and what women talk about in their like circles of like I want to be this boss babe and I don't need no man. Oh yeah, men are scum. I mean, if you heard what women like talk about just in their little groups, it's crazy. And so I think that there is they want one thing and then they're presented and encouraged in another way. And so I think it makes it very confusing. Um, and not to like completely like take the blame off of them, but I think it's a difficult thing to muddle through, especially in this society right now and with men and women being so split ideologically. Um, where there was a really interesting CNN interview that was going viral on X yesterday where this woman was doing a piece and she only dated like alt-right men for a year and she did an interview about it about everything that she learned. Whoa. Yes. Wait, so she did she set out Yes. to only date alt-right? Yes. So as a result, so she like kind of in a sense deceived all of these guys. Yes. How long did she date him for? Like a month. Yeah. A couple like a month here. She would go on a couple dates here. Like there was no like serious relationship, but it was all going out. Okay. Yeah. She's just going out. She's dating. And how did she determine if they're all right? Like based on their social media profiles and asking them like she would ask about their politics and that kind of stuff. But you could tell she like intentionally sought out like not just your average like right leaning guy on social whatever it is but like extreme right interesting. Are we talking like the the Andrew Tate? Yeah. Or like Nick Fuentes fans like that kind of stuff like she like really and then the entire interview was like oh they're so awful they took me to political meetings. it was in doll about. Anyway, it was such a It was like she had like sort of found herself in this like weird niche political faction that is like not reality at all. That is not just like most normal guys. Like most of the, you know, Alex has a pretty like diverse group of friends, but of all of the like conservative or right-leaning guys that we're friends with that he knows from college, they're so normal. like you would like they're not walking around with like huge Trump hats on or going to like political like they're lovely wonderful normal guys and she did not find any of those. I don't think she was seeking them out. Um but the way she spoke about them even like even like removing her like feelings about the alt-right whatever but she was just so disgusted by every part of them. And I think that that's really encouraged in women right now and they're so disgusted by like the male be like species like moving more right. And so I think that divide isn't helping at all where now women are like turning their nose up at more traditional guys even though they know that they like want that kind of like protection and security. So really it's just basically just chaos. And I think that's a huge reason for why the dating landscape is such a mess. You know what's interesting? I saw on Twitter this triggered a lot of people. Okay. There was a marriage advice and uh it was some lady who was giving advice and and just said uh to all the women out there who are in unhappy marriages. All you need to do is when your husband gets home, get get home early, cook a steak and that's it. Yeah, that's all it'll take and your marriage is going to change around. And it's interesting to see the comments. All the guys are like, "Oh my gosh, this would be it. when I get home, I just want to relax for an hour and then I I have all this to-do list and these things and if I just got that, all the women were saying absolutely not. I would do that and my husband wouldn't appreciate it or he would just find something to to to talk about. It's it's What are your thoughts on something like that? Uh it feels very normal to me. That's cuz that's kind of like what happens in our house anyway. Like one of my favorite things if Alex is out at the gym or at a meeting like I love like being there when he gets home. Now, there are a lot of people who like those types of videos where they'll be like, "Oh, yeah. Put on a big like face of makeup. Get dressed up." I know. I'll be in like my pajamas, but I'm waiting on the porch being like, "Hug me." Like, I'm so excited to see, but I'm like genuinely so excited to see him every day when he gets home. Um, from whatever he's doing, and I will happily cook him a steak whenever he wants. I'm terrible at cooking steak. He's far superior, so he usually does it. Um, but I will cook him a meal, whatever he wants because it's I mean it's less of a I'm revering you as a man and like whatever it is and more so you are a person that I love and I'm going to care for you and hopefully make your day better. But he also does the same for me. So it's not like a one-sided thing. And I think a lot of people who a lot of the women who get so angry about that see it as like well this just means that I'm serving him and I'm getting nothing back. But I think that there is something to be said of like what are the small things that you can do in your relationship to just make their lives better to just offer them some sort of comfort. And it kind of if you're in a situation and this is just my opinion, but if you're in a situation where things aren't great and you're just constantly at odds, it's like, well, can you be the one to just like take the step to start? It might be uncomfortable cuz you feel like, oh, maybe it wouldn't be appreciated, but maybe that's all you needed to do is just like kind of show up and show the guy that you love him and you care about him. And hopefully that, you know, starts to change things. And if he really just doesn't appreciate anything that you're doing and you're doing all of the right things and you're trying to be supportive, then that's indicative of a much bigger problem. But if you're just dealing with like nagging communication issues or you just feel like you're, you know, not on the same path, you're not as connected, it's like what can you do to just like try to make your home life a little happier and more comfortable? And that should be something that both individuals are trying to do. What's your advice to guys out there to improve themselves? Like what's the stake example, but from the guy's perspective? Women really love when you pay attention to the little things, which is not the Jack is like, "Oh god, that's like the hardest thing to do." Yes. Oh, I Is that why they like it is because they know it's like high effort, high intentional like I don't know if it's like I don't see I don't think about it in that regard of like high effort but it's always like when Alex will Okay, so last night I was feeling awful and I had an awful headache and we were driving yesterday and there was like a big pile up on the road and he like slam on the brakes and like went like this and my just neck fell. I just like had an off day and my dog accidentally my dog who was a terror like somehow got on the stove and like turned on the gas. So then our house like the entire kitchen it just the whole like evening was just like kind of went ary and I just was just not feeling it. And so we had dinner and it was like a series of events of like him being like, "Oh my god, my wife is just like not having a time." And so we ate dinner and I went and I got in bed. I was like, "I'm going to go to bed early." I, you know, for this podcast in the morning. I want to be prepared for it. I have work to do in the morning. I'm going to just go to bed. And he was in there. I thought he was just like cleaning up the kitchen because we had made dinner. And I'm obsessed with chocolate chip cookies. And I was like half asleep. And he comes in with like this plate of chocolate chip cookies. And I didn't ask him to do that. And it's not like a super specific little thing because he knows that I like my favorite food in the world is a chocolate chip cookie. But he took 15 minutes to be like, "Yeah, I can like make a cookie from scratch and bring that." And it was like my night literally like it was like life rushed through me. I was like, I can do anything. I'm But it was just like and it wasn't the cookie, but it was you saw that I was not having a great time, that I didn't feel great, that I had an awful headache, that I just felt really off. and you took 15 minutes out of your day when you could have been, you know, relaxing, reading a book, doing some work, sending some emails, texting your friends, looking at, you know, reals on Instagram to send all of your frat bros, whatever it is, and you took 15 minutes to do something that was really special. And that wasn't like the most complicated thing to figure out, but it was like, and I didn't know that he was doing it. I think that's also something for both men and women is that I think just people in general love when you don't have to like ask somebody to do something, but where it's just kind of unexpected. And so I don't think for women that it has to be this like you've traveled across the world to like find this like secret thing that they care about, but it's just like, you know, is there something that they talk about that they really love or this restaurant that they really want to go to or, you know, something that they pointed out online? Like Alex will I'll like send him a real or show him something on my phone of like, "Oh, I you know, this dress is really pretty." 6 months later for Christmas, he's gotten the dress. He's like, "Remember? I don't even remember that. That's impossible." Mm-m. But he's so intentional. It's like crazy. And so I had to like step up my game. So I have like a like a running notes app list of like now that I like write things down and remember things because he's so good at that and it's really really like it's so special. That's that's unusual. I mean I I find a wife that doesn't remember at all. But my god, I'll have to make some drastic and 10 minutes later I've forgotten it. Yeah. which honestly you would be shocked because he is somebody that's kind of like a in one ear out the other. He's kind of like squirrel like sparkly thing whatever. But he somehow just makes an effort in that capacity. But it also doesn't even have to be that. It's like tricks love flowers. Like it's really like people are like what can I do? It's so simple and it doesn't have to be some like fancy bouquet. Like the really like pretty ones at Trader Joe's that are like $3. You know what's funny? I've gotten Macy fake flowers. She hates them. But to me, it's like, but they last. Like, wouldn't you wouldn't you rather have a bouquet of flowers that could stay there for years? No. Not die. No. Never. Cuz they're really good at homeg goods, though. They look identical. Graham loves fake everything. Yes. I love walking into a house and everything is perfect. No flowers are dying. There's nothing that needs to be watered. And just from a distance, it looks the same. Yeah. But what about the what about the experience of like you come home and you've just thought about you saw like a little literally it could be the little bouquet that's like this big at Trader Joe's and you're like, "Oh, I'm thinking about her." I like I like the fake ones. I I don't know because then you could swap them out for seasons. Like we we'll have like the the spring fake flowers, the summer fake flowers, the fall fake flowers, and it's just the same thing. I don't know. Very practical. I much prefer that. Where would you recommend a guy go to find a traditional woman? And where would you recommend they don't go? Oh gosh. Cuz I was just at Coachella. I feel like that's probably not the right place to go. I think you're probably right. Yeah. Do you learn that? Um well, I didn't really talk to any You didn't talk to anybody? Um I I mean you did like not I mean not my friend was talking to a girl and she had a friend so I kind of like tried to keep the environment in a good situation. Excellent. Yeah. She was actually pretty cool but I feel like walking around it was not the ideal situation to probably find a traditional woman. No, for sure. It's like going to a location where you know that values are in practice basically. And it doesn't need to be like I'm going to go to this church that is exactly whatever because people have all these different opinions about like whether church is a great place to meet people or not. But this thread was basically arguing like if somebody is showing up to, you know, this workout class every single week and you see them there and there's like repetition or if they're going to this run club or like a tennis group or whatever it is, it's like joining an activity where it's like you're showing like I care about health and physical exercise. at least you're like sort of moving in the right path. Um or joining some kind of like organized group where you have like similar values. I think that's probably the easiest way. I also think that like on dating apps you have to be pretty clear about what you want and who you are. I think that's where the pitfalls of dating apps happen where it's like men and women both are well I think it's more with men less with women because based on the responses that I've seen like you were saying of like women responding to guys if they show any shred of not being a like feminist liberal um that you know ba basically my point in saying this is that you have to be very clear about what you want and it kind of sucks sometimes because you'll get responses from women who are like no this is terrible but you're weeding you don't want to date them anyway so it's Like if you are upfront about what you want and your intention with dating and your values, it is so much better because you weed out the people who are going to dislike you anyway and then you will attract the people who hopefully are in line with that, which is harder cuz that means a little more confrontation and being public about things. But I think that's key. But I do think a huge part of it is being in an environment where you're seeing somebody repeatedly and you're seeing them in a group of friends or in some kind of team related thing. And I wish I had more concrete advice, but I feel like I kind of got out of the dating market pretty quickly. It's so funny. It made me think like going to a pickle ball club or going to a run club and trying to find a trying to meet someone. It's like you're going there though for an ulterior motive. And that for me like feels a little weird, but it made me think and I still think it's so funny. Like I have friends that swear by certain methods. They're like, "Dude, this is going to sound like they they all say like go to a gay bar because if you go to a gay bar Oh, yeah. It's all the girls that are just trying to have Well, it's girls that are just trying to have fun. Yeah. They're not like peacocking at a normal bar or a non-gay bar. For sure. That's what we called it now. Non-gay bars where where you know they're trying to show off to guys or whatever, but a gay bar they're just trying to have fun, sing some karaoke makes a ton of sense. Yeah. But it's also I don't know. I guess I guess going out somewhere with the intention of like is a little So I guess my response to that would be like I would never join a run club because I hate running. But I would join maybe like there was uh my first like summer in Nashville. I'm really bad at volleyball, but I had friends that had like a church volleyball like league, but it was like through the city, but their church group did they needed an extra person. I was like, "Yeah, sure." Like I really like it. Like I didn't go for any purpose of meeting somebody and I didn't meet somebody, but it's like you find something that you're actually interested in because if you don't meet anybody, you still get to gain a skill or do something that you enjoy. um whether it's like a a gun club or a doesn't have to be pickle ball. Um but find something that will enrich your life regardless of whether you meet somebody or not. How bad do you think modern hookup culture is? Who is it worse for, guys and girls? And what does it look like if you extend that over a longer period of time? I heard Jordan Peterson say it can completely restructure your value hierarchy and make you nearly undatable. I think he's absolutely accurate on that because I think it skews your perception of what intimacy really is and what I think humans are sort of wired to look for in a relationship of this like long-term trust and stability and companionship. And I think if you spend years just hooking up with people and sleeping around and not taking any kind of commitment, you will feel very detached from that idea of women. And I think that men or women will look at somebody who has just been like sleeping around for 20 years and it's kind of like something wrong with you or like why? Like I don't really want to date like I wouldn't want to date somebody that has, you know, if I was in my 30s who had spent his entire, you know, 20s and 30s just hooking up with girls and not seeking anything that was more meaningful. Um cuz I would kind of be like, well, what are your what do your values actually mean? Like what have you been focusing on? like I don't need you to have been in like four long-term relationships seeking marriage, but if you've just spent all of your time kind of chasing chasing tail, then what does that say about you? Um, I don't know if I could pinpoint who it impacts most negatively. I think that it's been different for men and women. I think that men have been negatively impacted because especially I think the bigger negative impact for men has been for sure. Um, and I think that that has fostered an increase in hookup culture for sure. But I think for women, hookup culture has completely like skewed like protecting this beautiful thing that you have, which is like I mean, you kind of look at it biologically where it's like men, you have the ability to like go sew as many seeds and have as many children. We're saying with Elon right now, you can have as many kids as possible. Women, it's like you have like one egg a month. you like have to protect this baby that you're having. It's just like you're wired differently. And I think for women, it's so dangerous. And I also think it's ideologically very dangerous because you're putting yourself out there and it's under the guise of this female empowerment of like I can do whatever I want with my body. I can sleep who with whoever. This is powerful. But it's like you're actually just like letting somebody get off using you and putting yourself in an incredibly vulnerable situation because he doesn't get pregnant. You might get pregnant and now you have this child that you have to raise. Like that's a very real consequence of sex and hookup culture that I think a lot of people don't think about because abortion exists and the common line is, you know, consent to sex is not consent to pregnancy. I'm like, it kind of is like whether you're consenting to it or not, it's a natural consequence. Like that just happens. Um you can't avoid that and that's just kind of lying to yourself. And so I think it's taken what is a very vulnerable, incredibly intimate situation for both parties, but especially for women, and turned it into this false sense of empowerment that I think has really skewed what women look for and what they value in themselves and they value in the world. And I think a lot of women just lie to themselves about it feeling powerful and feeling really happy. when you look at um statistics like across decades and decades of research it shows that women who are in I also show this with like parenthood but married couples are objectively happier and it isn't because the institution of marriage is so perfect and it fixes everything but it's because you have a lasting commitment to somebody else who has your best interest at heart who loves you and is trying to make you better where you have that security and that stability um and that provides human flourishing And you'll see articles that come out and it's like women who are single in their 30s are richer and they're happier. And you read the articles, you actually get past the headline and it's like they're using an outlier from a tiny study of like 30 people or they're saying that they're actually happier, but it's only looking at men and women who are single in their 30s. It's not actually looking at women who are single compared to women who are married or have kids or have been divorced or whatever it is. So the research is very skewed. I think it's just like changed what women are part of that I feel like for women have to make more money because they're supporting themselves versus if they're in a relationship they could take other jobs that maybe pay less that have a better balance. Yeah. Exactly. And it's like a lot of women who are um who are married choose to you know yeah take a lower paying job or be able to stay home with the kids. And there's also the opposite side of things where it's like married men significantly out earn unmarried men because then there is this and I've even just watched it with Alex where we don't have kids. I make good money, but as a husband, he's like, "No, I want to if you ever want to like stop working completely, I want to be able to let you do that and we don't have to change our lives so we don't have to worry about anything and I want to protect you." And especially as I've kind of made this whole career shift of leaving a situation where I had like, you know, I had a W2 job and I was a salaried employee to where I've now jumped to, you know, my income is based on basically what I put out. M um I would have been able to do that if it wasn't for his you know support and being able to make that happen. And in a similar way where he started his business I was able to give support because he was leaving his W2 job. So it's like this give and take but just watching him as a husband. We've only been married for a year of he's making significantly more and it's like this mindset shift of I'm going to be better for you. I'm going to like try to make more to provide for us. And I don't think I think that there's a lot of unmarried men who are obviously motivated and want to do well but don't have that extra like I need to provide. I need to take care of them. Um so yeah, you have women that need to provide because they don't have that safety net and then you have men that are driven. So there again, it's just like this divide between men and women goes so deep right now between happiness and finances and um educational levels to ideology. It's so deep. I think people kind of brush it aside and make fun of it and we laugh about it and we say, "Oh, these liberal women, whatever." It's so important. It's like our society is becoming completely offkilter because of this. I think it's a root of a lot of these issues. I think Jordan is one of the only people that talks about it as extensively as it should. Chris Williamson is another one who talks about this extensively because it's such a huge issue. What do you think about the dynamic where women make more than their husbands? Yeah. I've seen it work and I've seen it not work. Like in my parents marriage that was a big issue but it was the money wasn't the issue. It was the personalities more than anything of my mom was a very dominant person and I think that she needed somebody who was more dominant than her and was as assertive as a person uh and was probably a lot more overtly assertively masculine in more traditional ways where my dad is definitely not that at all. And so I think that already caused an imbalance and she is not somebody who's going to like make herself smaller or I think she kind of looked at it as like okay well you need to rise to the occasion and he was kind of like well you're hurting my feelings and so I think there was an emotional layer to that. It wasn't actually about the money. It was more about how they were operating within their marriage, what the responsibility was and how that made each of them feel where she then felt very resentful and he felt ashamed I think but that again it wasn't I think the money was a symptom or an additional symptom of that rather than being the actual cause like they would have still had the same issues if he had made significantly more I think. Um and so I think it really goes down to you know in the marriages that I've really seen it work like I have a very very close friend who's a mentor to me. She's one of my best friends, but she's much older than me. Um, and she has always had a more traditional corporate job that's made a lot of money, and her husband does not. And they have an incredible, incredible marriage, and they are each other's best friends. But at the beginning of their marriage, they kind of acknowledged the elephant in the room of, hey, this is the path I'm taking. This is the path you're taking, and we're deciding this early on, and that's okay. And if things change, we'll address them. But she still massively like, it doesn't change her respect of her husband. He's an incredible incredible guy who leads their household who is an amazing amazing man and she rever him in everything. Um, and I think that's the key is that you it's is I think money is very difficult in general too and it money causes a lot of problems as it's kind of like an age-old uh an age-old saying. Um, so but the foundation has to be there I think before um the foundation has to be there for it to work. Do you think a guy should lead the household and what does that look like in application? Uh, yeah, I certainly do. But I think that that I think a lot of people hear that and say, "Okay, he's going to make every decision. He's going to tell me what to do. I'm going to be super subservient." Um, and a lot of women hear that are like, "No, it's like I hate that. I don't want to be told what to do." Um, but for me, I look at that as like I married a guy who I massively respect. Like I genuinely think he is the smartest person in the room. I genuinely think that he is kind and empathetic and a good friend. He's a great leader. He's incredibly compassionate. He has great instincts. And he's somebody that like I feel like when I met him and we started dating, it was like a weight taken off of me cuz I had all of these walls up. I was managing all of these different things. I was like, I don't know who to trust. What am I doing here? Like my family's it whatever. I met him and it was like my god, I can like relax cuz I'm dating somebody that I trust who I know has my best interests at heart. And so I naturally it's less of a like I'm calculating, you know, being like I need Alex to make this decision cuz he's going to lead us in this way and more so like you're really great at making these decisions and it takes a weight off of me and you enjoy this. Like we're, you know, I'm buying a car um when I bought my car last year. He handled the entire thing. He basically told me what car we were going to get. He told me we were going to get a Tesla cuz it made sense for my commute and I was terrible at filling up my 4Runner with gas. I would get home and I would have like 4 miles and he would be like, "Okay, well, you're not I'm not letting you go out to the uh to the East Nashville, you know, Shell station at 11:00 p.m. in the dark. So then I have to go do this, whatever." And he was like, "So, this is the car we're going to get. It's great. I found a great price. We're going to go do it." I was like, "Great. I am so happy that I don't have to think about this." And I was kind of resentful at the time cuz I loved my 4Runner. That's a cool car. Loved it. It was my dream car and I had it for like 3 years, two years. And now I love my Tesla. And I didn't think I was going to love it. I have a Tesla Y. Okay. Yeah, Model Y. Um, but I didn't think I was going to like it. And I was like, I've always had like trucks and a gas guzzler and this is what I want. We were moving to a farm and why am I getting a Tesla? I was like, you drive like 35 minutes to your studio every day. This is dumb and you don't fill up your car with gas and gas prices are so high. This makes sense. I'm like, okay, whatever. But I trusted him. I didn't really push back other than being like, I'm going to miss my car. I love my car now. Everything he said was right. and like he just he's very logistical. He understands the situation from a bird's eye view and it's so wonderful and this is just like being in a great relationship in general and I don't know if you feel this too where it's like you have somebody who is like gets you outside of your head when you can't and knows you so well and is like no this actually is what you need and I trust him implicitly. But I also do the same thing for him in a different way where I'm not negotiating what K's going to buy and telling him what Ki should do. But when it comes to like interpersonal relationships or things that he's doing in his work and how he, you know, navigates some situation with a client, it's definitely like the male female roles of like I'm just, you know, more emotional. That's where I like excel in. Then he comes to me and we work through that. And at the end of the day, we're both adults. We can make whatever decision we want, but we trust each other in that regard and we know our strengths. And so that's kind of how I think it is in in application of, you know, there are certainly things that he excels in. And so I let him lead in that regard and I trust him enough to let him lead. I think that there is and I think you have to find the right person for you because it's not like there were I would go out with guys and Alex was the first one that I looked at and I was like I would trust you to be in the driver's seat of my life if I was in a life or death situation. If I needed you to make a decision, you are somebody that I feel like would make a great decision for me. Was that immediate? You felt like that? Yeah. And it was just that was just like a kind of an emotional feeling of like stability. And then I got to know him more and I was like, "Oh yes, like in practice I feel this." And there would be other people that I would go out with where even like on the first date I was like, "I don't think this is it was just like a vibe thing of I don't think we're in sync. I think that, you know, just knowing my parents' marriage, there are times when I be like, I think I am way too dominant for you and I might really like you and you're really sweet and you're really funny, but I can already tell that even me as a people pleaser, I might walk all over you and that's not what I I saw that in practice. I saw it not working. And so I think it's really important to know yourself. I think that's kind of a conversation that is missed, especially on like the conservative right where they'll say like just get married. It's going to you save the West, get married, save society, whatever it is. You have to find the right person. Like don't just tell a whole crowd of high schoolers to just go out and find somebody and get married. You have to find the right person for you. It has to be somebody that you trust, that you feel like will always be advocating for you to be your best, who is supporting you, who's holding you to a high standard. If it is, you know, if you are a woman and you're looking for a guy who is somebody that you would trust in your most, again, you're marrying somebody, you're going to have this guy's kids. he's going to you are going to be in your most vulnerable situations with him. Make sure that's somebody that you trust. And I think in order to know who you can trust, what you're looking for, you have to know yourself. And so some people, and I feel like I was, you know, lucky and I was in a unique situation. I feel like I knew myself at a very young age probably because a lot of the stuff that I went through as a kid. I had to grow up really quickly. Um, some people just know, but I knew kind of what I wanted my life to look like from a bird's eye view. I knew my values. I knew what had not I think a big blessing was that I knew what didn't work in my parents' marriage. Um, and so I was able to at a young age, younger age than a lot of people say, "Okay, I think this is going to work." And obviously, you know, we're one year in. But it's funny, a lot of people say that like the first year of marriage is the hardest and you're figuring everything out and the communication. It's like last year was actually very difficult for Who says that? I've never I've not found that. This is a common place thing. I even see it on like friends social media of like, "Oh, it's so hard." Or like people who are like older couples. Maybe it's just they're like I don't know projecting or whatever. They're like, "Oh, just wait that first year." Maybe it only gets better then. I know. Maybe that and that could be that's maybe that's the perspective shift. But I guess that could be different if you've like never lived together or you're just like moving in like you get married and like the next week you you have a house and like now you merge everything and maybe that's it. I don't know. That could be. I don't know. But it's like even with, you know, Alex and I, we were joking about this. We technically like lived together, but we didn't. Like he was I bought a house and he had a house and we knew that we wanted to get married and knew we wanted to get married within the next year and he had a great opportunity to rent his house and then it like lined up with when I was going to Budapest to shoot the pen dragon cycle for Daily Wire. So I was gone for 4 months. So we like over overlapped in a home for like two weeks and he spent like a month and a half with me out in Budapest. But we didn't actually like live together basically until we got married cuz then we had bought our farm and we were moving around but it was like we didn't actually spend a ton of time capabating which neither of us really wanted actually. both of us were like, we don't want to move in together. And not because we didn't want to, not even because we're like morally against it, but it just felt like neither of us wanted to be in a situation where it became I think there's a danger in cohabitating just for the sake of getting to know somebody if you're not sure that that's who you want to be with. because I've seen it go ary where it's like okay well now our lives are so entangled and we can't unwind them and we've been living together so I guess we're basically married and whatever and there's just like low there's low commitment but now your lives are so entwined and that both of us just independently were very against that but we felt confident enough of like we were talking about like yeah we're going to get married in 2024 that's what it's going to be and I kind of like knew through friends that he was in the process of buying a ring and I was like oh Okay, then yeah, go ahead and rent your house and I'm going to be leaving to go to Hungary for four or five months anyway. Yeah. Um, so it's a very unique situation, but yeah, it's weird hearing that. And I think it probably is a lot of people just having to I think learning somebody's communication style is is just difficult. And thankfully for us, it wasn't something that, you know, was like we were butting heads. It was just kind of, you know, even still, we're like, okay, like I'll learn new things about him every week, basically, but they aren't hard or bad. With the 8-year age gap, did you notice any like differences between you two or like cultural references that you would say that he cultural references for sure that he wouldn't know? um cultural references, but also most of that was amplified by the fact that he was raised having TV and went to like a brickandmortar high school, went to an SEC school, had a, you know, an iPhone, whatever it was, and I had no television growing up. Like I was a homeschooled nerd horse. Like, it's so funny. So, he is a um yeah, the age was never an issue because we were I think what's more important than age is being at the same stage of life. I think that's also another thing people should really think about of like even if you are both 22 years old, you could have a guy that is super successful and has his own business and is, you know, creating a real, you know, stake for himself in the world and you have a girl that's like still, I don't know, partying at her sorority in college and is not like ready to take life as seriously as he is or vice versa. And I think, you know, there they always say like women mature more quickly than men. I've seen it be both ways. But of, you know, me at 21 or 22, I was never going to I was never going to be compatible with another like 22-year-old in Nashville who was like going to Belmont. Like the majority of the guys I would meet who would be around my age. I think having being at the same stage of life and being ready for the next things I think is also important to understand about yourself and your potential partner, significant other. Um anyway, so that was never really an issue, but I always laugh about the fact that he had a very like conventional childhood and he ended up at an SEC school uh in a fraternity was a like a lax bro and he ended up marrying a homeschooled horse girl theater kid like as like and if you had told him that that was who he was going to be like in love with and married to in high school, he'd be like, "You are absolutely like hell no. That is insane." Um, and so I think those are probably that caused more of the kind of cultural differences of there were just like internet meme references that I didn't get, but I probably wouldn't have gotten them with somebody my own age either because I wasn't online. So yeah, but that hasn't like it's basically just been humorous rather than creating an issue. But it was also funny because he thought that I was much older than I was and I thought he was much younger because he doesn't really look like he's, you know, 31. Um, and I thought that he was like 25 and he thought that I was 25 and it was like on our fourth date or something. We like both I remember being like something like weird like he said something I don't think that's accurate. I think it was like cuz he went to the same high school as my brothers and I had like he had said something about the year he had graduated and I was like that doesn't seem right. And I literally like went into his wallet and I looked at his birthday and I was like, "Oh, wait. Hold on." You went into his wallet? Oh, yeah. I've never gone through his phone secretly. Yeah. He had like gone upstairs to grab something. But I I was so confused cuz I was like, "I don't like am I really missing something?" And I felt like after going on like four or five days, I couldn't just be like, "Hey, how old are you?" Um, what? Okay. Is there an age where if you saw on his driver's license, you would say that's too old? Yeah. If he was like if he was like 35 then I probably would have been like that that would have been and maybe somewhere in between but he was you know 28 when we started dating. I think we're technically like seven years. Um but again we were on like such similar wavelengths at the same like stage of life so it didn't like that didn't really Okay. But what if he was 45? Oh that would have been like no no. Uhuh. Weird. Even if everything was like totally different. I think I just couldn't Well, he's like I thought you were 40. I know. Then I'm Oh gosh. Yeah. Exactly. But no, I think that would have been um How did you confront that when he came back to the table? We never really did. He more he more so talked to me about it because Okay, so I went on Tim Pool. I've never told this story. I went on Tim Pool and Tim was at Daily Wire and we were talking about something and they were like, "Wait, how old are you?" And I said, "Oh, I'm I think I said I'm 21." Apparently Alex was driving and almost crashed his car because he thought I was like 25 or 26. Um he was like, "Wait, I had like no idea." And so we had but I don't even think we had a he joked about it later on, but we never had like a confrontation like conversation about I think he like talked to his mom and a couple friends and I also like talked to a couple of friends where it was like we really but and then we like talked about it a couple months later I think where we were like we both thought we were at different ages. Um and it's just something that we've laughed about. If you could make one new cultural rule that everyone had to follow, what would you do? That's a good question. Um, I guess the funny one is that everybody has to walk faster on the sidewalk. That's just like a a big pet peeve for me is slow walkers. Um, but that's not any kind of like important cultural thing. I don't care. This is more like of a legislation. I would like get rid of and only fans. I would make it or if I couldn't like do that, I would make it like so socially impermissible to like make and sell your body online. I think it is so harmful for We talked about this in the last episode extensively. I think it is destructive to men. I think it is destructive to women. It is one of the leading causes of divorce in America. Um, is it? Yes. How? It's crazy. I thought it was money was the leading divorce. I think that is probably the leading but it's like cited in over half of divorces as a major problem is and I think a lot of guys look at it as you know it's so common place now so I and it is so accessible like this something I've talked with you know my mom and older friends of mine um and people I work with who you know it used to be something like you'd go to the movie theaters and you have to like sit around a bunch of people and you'd see like a or whatever Um, and you'd get like these magazines and it's in all the, you know, '90s movies if you'd hide them under your bed. It's like in our phones now. It's like on Instagram. We're fed, you know, basically soft. It's very easy to go on a myriad of different websites is free. It's just in your pocket and it's accessible and it's private. And so I think because of the accessibility people have, it's just become normalized. And I think that a lot of people see it as just innocent and like a means to an end and like, oh, I get off. I'm not dating anybody. Whatever it is, and that it's harmless, but it has such a detrimental effect, not only mentally and on relationships, but also physically. There are so many studies especially with men of how it impacts your hormones and your um you know I mean the you basically just like fry your brain which then impacts how you are physically able to engage in sex and physically like connect with a physical partner. Can you say that also about a lot of things like alcohol or Tik Tok or Instagram? Really anything that isn't good for you. Sugar could say that that's also kind of destroying your brain. Yeah, for sure. I think that there is a I think that has another level because I think that it has and maybe it's more similar to like a Tik Tok or whatever. I would like differentiate it between a like a drug and I put like sugar in the drug category because it acts as a drug. It's very addictive. But in terms of like Tik Tok and social media addictions and that kind of thing, I think that it fries people's brains in that regard. But I think it's even more sinister because that it impacts families and marriages in such a detrimental way. And if I could just like wave a wand and rid society of it, I would. But it's like is that legislatively even possible? Would that cause like I think it's really hard to just based on how I look at it and how I look at the impacts that it's had culturally. I think it's very easy for me to be like, "Yeah, I just want to get rid of it. I want to do away with it." the principles and implications of that of you know government overreach of banning something. We have this whole conversation about Tik Tok and a lot of people want it banned purely because of the the same kind of results of um and I think that's a dangerous game to play and I even waver on that of like how far is too far and what are we you know what measure is government taking to actually protect its citizens and what is overreach and so while I would love to just like I'm do if I could do away with it and have no repercussions on you know any negative repercussions on how government operates and overreach in that regard. It would um but I think it's a lot more complicated than that. And that's why I think that it is a it's a cultural issue rather than legislatively. But the legislative things that I think need to happen are happening with like requiring to have age verification laws like that should be a nobrainer. Like and the fact that instead of in like instead of changing their business model and putting in age verifications, they just say, "Okay, we're just not going to be in Alabama. We're just not going to be in Texas." Like that's so so weird. I think a lot of people are concerned about a leak like that. Yeah. Like what was that one the uh the affair website was it? Oh yes. Whatever. They had that leak and then now all the wives could go and like search this leak and find all their husbands on there and be like, "Oh my god, this person." Yeah. So I think people are concerned if like there is a database of like my ID and information on Yeah. If that gets leaked out there and you get to like just type in type in Jack Selby and you see his name everywhere why you bring every website it's just Jack Selby's on there. Yeah. Yeah. And unfortunately, and maybe this is me being, you know, playing hard ball with it, but I'm like, you know, with those sites where all of you know, I think there was a couple of like congressmen that were terrified of like, you know, their names getting leaked and they ended up did getting leaked. that uh who was the guy who somebody was on Sean's show and he was talking to me about it where actually he was one of the people that like hacked one of those websites and had that whole database and the FBI was like banging down his door trying to get it cuz they knew that there were names on it um and it was a website and it's like with things like that especially with like like I don't care about your privacy whatever and I think it's obviously a little different for but also if there is that I would love it if was something that people were actually we were talking about the importance of like embarrassment and shame. I think that right now it's something that is so common place but I think that it should be something that it's like this is not a good thing. You should know that probably what you're engaging in is incredibly unhealthy and is not making you a better person and is not helping your relationship or your marriage or your you know your status in the dating market. And that should that's a net bad thing. It's like doing drugs. You should know that what you're doing is not good for you. And I think there should be a level of that James. So I feel less sympathetic to if your name gets out. I'm like, "Okay." Yeah. What about Only Fans? Only Fans. It's like that Bob House. I keep getting recommended them cuz now that one lady the one house she's okay. It's real. So it's Soph Sophia Rain. So I think I don't How old are they? They're like 18 to 20. Yeah. Uh but they're making millions of dollars a month. I've heard of Sophia Rain. Yeah. Sophia Rain. She's making like $4 million a month. And then it's like Only Fans version of like the hype house and that kind of thing. Like it's this like coalition of like chicks with huge tits and fake asses like making Only Fans videos together. It's like it's funny. It's sad, but it's it's it's really funny. They call it the Bob House. It's called the Bob House. But even there there's there's this one Only Fans girl who does like interviews with her assistant and her younger brother. I've seen that. Yeah. Her. And she was talking about Sophia Rain. She's like Sophia Rain makes so much money. And they're like, "How much money do you make?" And she's like just pauses for a second and she's well not as much as Sophia. They're like, "Okay, okay, but like how much do you make?" $1.5 million a month. It's insane. A month. And the thing is that's so that is obviously real. I mean, you look at like Bad Baby, this is so creepy to me that like and Bad Baby even like said this. She's the catch me outside girl. She made an Only Fans on her 18th birthday and had people wait. She made more money than she's ever made in her life. the day that she made her only fans, the day that she turned 18, because people were like waiting for and it's so but that is it. I remember I remember people were waiting for Emma Watson. That was the thing there there were websites um that like had the countdown going and it was different for me. I think she's a year older than me. So like at the time I think I was 17, she had just like turned 18 or like something like that. So for me it was it was different at that moment. But yeah, I I think this is something that's been going on for a long time. And now people like feed into it. I think the difference is now that Only Fans gives you the opportunity to monetize that weirdness, whereas I look at that and I'm like, that should be something that we can acknowledge. It's very odd for grown men online to be waiting for you to be 18 so that they can sexualize you openly. And now our culture is so depraved that women are like, it's actually empowering for me to lean into this and for people to be like waiting to openly sexualize me. There's a crazy Okay. Have you seen the Denise Richards story? Yeah, I've heard of it. So Tenise Richards, Charlie Sheen, they were married. They have three daughters together. And this is also a crazy situation because one of their daughters is like very Christian, talks about her faith on TikTok, does like Bible study on Tik Toks. She's really sweet. And she's living in this like chaos. So they split up and Sammy Sheen two and a half years ago on her 18th birthday made an Only Fans. And her rationality, I'm not kidding. This is so insane to me, is that she wanted to move out and she was working at a candy shop and the income at the candy shop wasn't cutting it. So, she was like, I went to the next best thing and didn't. And I'm like, first of all, you're a Nepo baby. Like, you should like your mother is Denise Richards, your father is Charlie Sheen. If you didn't want to like work a normal job, go make some movies. Go like have your dad get you a job. Like, lean into the fact that you have amazing connections. And in her mind, the next best thing, the easiest thing was to join Only Fans. And so she gave this whole interview. They have a new reality TV show. It's called The Wild Things and based on Denise's movie. And there's a whole interview about how empowering it is to be an entrepreneur because she's on only fans. She makes so much money. So she was able to move out. She quit working at the candy shop. But the most insane thing is that a week later, Denise also made an only fans her mother because she was seeing that people were sexualizing her daughter and were making comments and she was like, "Well, I can't let that happen to only you." And so she also made only fans in. So now both this mother and daughter, it's an only fans duo, which I think there's so much like psychology, you know, and like layers of this onion to peel back of, you know, Denise Richards was this like sex icon bombshell. Now her daughter is getting all this attention. I look at this kind of as like kind of missing the attention that you used to get and you want to also commodify that and you saw it was working out for your daughter. But Sammy makes millions and Charlie Sheen gave an interview and he was very dead. He was like this did not happen under my roof. She doesn't live with me. She lives with my wife. Which was also so weird because then she apparently told her dad how much she was making and he was like well if you're making that much money I guess that bad. It's like millions of dollars I think. Well, it's nothing like millions every month, but in a year she had made like $4 million. And it's like as a father, it's like so the money then makes it better. Like your daughter is technically like it makes it more understandable. It does. If someone shows pictures of their nude body online and they make like a few hundred a month, then you're like, "Okay, then you must really like something's going on there." But if they're making like like for everyone's got a price like at least I can say for myself like if someone wanted to pay me lots and lots of money to send them a picture of like my foot for example I dude remember the guy wanted to buy your shoes. He did and I was there's a lot of weird people out there. Well I heavily considered it. He was like I think I was trying to negotiate the price up because he he lowalled Jack and I were like not that. He told me he'd buy me a new pair of shoes. I posted on my Instagram. I'm like, "Time to retire these puppies." And it was just a picture of my like worn shoes. It was not my feet, nothing. And then he swiped up and he's like, "Hey, can I I'm not You shouldn't be done with this." So weird. There's some value in them. But anyways, everyone's got a price. I like to think like I know, you know, $10 million, you know, you know, I would but anyways. And so I think it justifies it a little bit more. It makes more relatable. Yeah. And it is hard for people to say that they don't have a price until you're like confronted with, you know, money and then you decide whether to take it or say no to it. Which is funny cuz I, you know, I've sort of been in that situation now where it's like I not in terms of only fans are selling, you know, feed pics or whatever, but of you know, getting offers and going that's really this is not where like that's great money, but I don't want that. um and say I'd rather take a risk elsewhere or whatever it is and turning that down which is very very scary but I so I think it's good that you know that there is a price but I even think it's more black and white I think that it probably makes it better in his eyes cuz it's like at least my daughter's making money but again as a father it's like I feel like your I don't know disappointment or maybe it's that's not even the word but of just like saddening that that's what your daughter is doing Here's here's some of the difference. A lot of Only Fans, they won't be full nude. They'll just be like in a bikini and then you make the argument like what's the difference between me doing that on Only Fans in a bikini and me being on the beach around a whole bunch of people. It's the same thing. Well, no. I think it's the act of selling it because you know that it's for purpose. You know that you're sexualizing yourself. And I think also, but how is that different than going to the beach and wearing like a revealing outfit knowing that like I'm getting attention from the guys around me or going to a festival like Coachella, having your cheeks out the same? I think you have to be very like self-aware of your own biases because like I look at that regard like I would never do that. Like I don't walk around like I'm covered up like relatively modest. Um not that I've like never worn a bikini but it's like I don't walk around hoping that people are like gawking at me or whatever it is. But I do think there is a difference when money is traded. And I also think that there's something I talked about this in a recent episode. Actually, it was the one that I did about the Sammy and uh the whole sheen family, Richard's family craziness. Um but that it's like, yeah, you might just be selling bikini photos or it's like more revealing of a photo and you used to just post them on your Instagram, but now you're getting paid for them. But it's like, you know, you're taking advantage of the guys that are spending money and it's like But they want to give the money. I know. But I think but I think that there should be more of a social contract of knowing that that's not a good thing and that men who are engaging in this like you also are kind of being taken advantage of in a way because this is not good for you and they are using your vices. It's like an addiction you know like for a drug dealer for example it's like oh they're both consenting to a transaction here but at the same point like the drug dealer has you know I think that's the same with anything. That's the same with junk food. It's the same with casinos. It's the same with just about anything you could think of that people do on a daily basis and put no thought into it whatsoever. Which is very true. But I think that in like selling your body online, I think that just has had such a detrime and you can argue for all of those things, especially, you know, junk food and the obesity crisis that all of that has had detrimental impacts on society. And that's why I, you know, hope that RFK is able to turn things around. I'm a, you know, fan of his and I hope that we are able to, you know, both culturally and legislatively like turn things around for that sake. But we, it has had such a studied detrimental effect on both men and women and on families and on the daily landscape that it's like I look at it and I'm just like we have to be better. And maybe I'm looking at it in kind of this like utopia idea of like this is what I hope for people, but I do like and what I what I try to talk about in the episodes where I cover this is not, you know, we just need to ban this outright or whatever, but it's like at least acknowledge the fact that you are leaning into your vices and not having any control over them. Like if you're if you're somebody that's paying for them and that if you are posting those photos of yourself, you are enabling people's vices. And I think that as human beings, we should raise ourselves to a standard of acknowledging that that's not a good thing and that's not a healthy thing. Now, that requires self-awareness. That requires discipline. But I also think that that's something that we should strive for as a society and encourage where it's like there are no things that you could be doing with your life. Like Sam Sheen is literally the perfect example of you have every single opportunity available to you. If you want to be gked out and sexualized or whatever, you know, it's fine. It's like I mean whatever, but to say that this is the only other option than working at a candy shop, it's like that's a that's a lie. That is you excusing and rationalizing your choice because you have been fed this idea of, you know, that this actually is female empowerment. And for most people, they will not make the $4 million. They will not make the million a month. That is an incredibly tiny percentage of the high earners on sites like Only Fans or on the Playboy website, which also has their new subscription platform. The majority of people will make very, very minimal money and will be in a situation like Jack was talking about where it's like you're making maybe a couple hundred a month, but you're posting these photos of yourself and you're leaning more and more heavily into it, which is like that's not like how is that that's why you got to dip your toes in first. You got to like try a start with it. Start with feet and a bikini and then as you make more then you keep notching it up a little bit. That's some really good advice actually. So guys, if you want consulting, you want to get into the business, I'll take out 25% is my fee. Yeah, there you go. New subscription. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, speaking of potentially lower value men, let's change it to high value men. Great. Okay. What would you say is a high value man and what does Andrew Tate get wrong about it? Oh, okay. Maybe this will get me into hot water. I think that a lot of things that I see online, especially from like the Andrew Tates of the world, um, when they talk about high value men, they talk about a lot of materialistic things and whether or not that is the end goal and the root of what they're talking about, the way that they present themselves. It's like I'm surrounded by these like Lamborghinis and these Bugattis and I'm so rich and I have these suits that are extremely too small and Taylor and it's just terrible and I'm like sitting in this mansion smoking these cigars and it's like that isn't masculinity like that like and that kind of goes back to that question that that young man sent into me um saying like I'm not that like I don't really crave that like I don't I hit the gym every day I'm not you know getting some like 12-pack and I'm not super rich and I sit around with the bros like smoking cigars, whatever. I think that the Andrew Hades of the world have contributed to an aesthetic and a visual idea of what manhood and high value manhood and the top G mindset or whatever looks like rather than focusing on what does a good man do? How does he treat the people in his community, in his family, how does he walk through the world? I think that that is far more important. Like at the end of the day, I don't care that, you know, when we start didn't care that Alex didn't have a Lamborghini and have some mansion or was, you know, sitting around in these like really expensive suits with velvet loafers, whatever. Um, I cared that he was a good person. I cared that he was a leader. But would you have liked it if he had a Lamborghini? I don't think I would have changed anything. I might have looked at it and been like, why did you buy that? Like I and it's like some So it would have actually went against Yeah, probably him because but that's also just me personally. Well, if you had a nice nice watch, that would have been fine. Like that wouldn't have been a turn off, but it also wouldn't that wasn't something that I was seeking. You know what I think it is? I think it's the it's the intention behind the purchase. If the intention is to show it off, then it's bad. But if the intention is I got this cool Lambo cuz I love it. Yeah. Maybe that would be a little bit different. For sure. If it's something that it's like I'm a car guy or whatever, like you know, you have guys that, you know, collect Porsches and it's, you know, you see the like successful, you know, 40-year-old guys and they have like they're really interested in this like specific type of car, that's cool. It's like you are interested in something that wouldn't have been a turnoff at all. It's like, okay, you have a hobby and an interest, but if you're walking around presenting yourself trying to appear like you have this wealth and like you're flashy and like you're a macho dude or if it's like like you work out just for aesthetic purposes and you like spend a ton of time in the gym like flexing and looking at yourself, that's so weird. And it's like that's not manhood. So you're saying if your decisions are dictated by the external environment or like your internal or materialistic gains Yeah. is determined from that then that is that is not good. You should be doing things just you should be doing them because they're objectively good things and you you should be pursuing good virtuous things with I think good intentions. It's like you should go to the gym because you want to be healthy and feel good and be able to protect those that you care about. But yeah, in terms of the the top G's of the world, like I don't need your hyper like tailored suits and weird fancy cars and cigars. Seems like the suits are really the big thing. The loafers, the velvet loafers are just Yeah. And I Okay, so this is just a thing for me. I nine times out of 10 hate I hate it when men don't wear socks with loafers. Like I And there is a specific loafer where it works like the you know like the like smoking uh the smoking loafer whatever. And those are loafers. Yeah, it's like those. I get it. But when like I see guys out there now who wear like a traditional loafer that my dad might have worn to go work at, you know, the bank when I was growing up and they might have like a tie or they have a little buckle. No socks. Or they have the little no-show socks. That is a whole other thing. If you take off your shoe and you're wearing like the little like tiny no-show sock and you've like slipped them out of your loafer. I was horrifying. Horrible. Um that's just a pet peeve of mine. Maybe that's my hot take. It sounds like that gives you the ick. It does. What else gives women the ick? I think it's different for every woman. And I think that the ick thing bothers me because I think icks are just a normal part of like life. Like everybody has like a thing that's like, "Okay, I don't want you to do that." Like that just weirds me out. But it grew to a point on social media and I think there's just this like social contagion in it like spiraling and who knows how um the implications that it actually had in the real world but where people would be like posting videos of their boyfriend doing like a normal thing being like oh I have the ick. I'm like and girls in the comments saying oh my gosh you have to break up with him. Like one girl said I remember watching a video and she was like my boyfriend walking up a hill gives me the ick. Is it is it just like how he walks? Yeah. Something like that. It's just like something whatever. But I also think it's like when you love somebody and you're in a committed relationship, it's like you might see things that are, you know, kind of funny. Like I do things all the time that I know Alex is like he's more of a neat freak than I am. Uh I don't even want to say neat freak. He's just like everything has a place and I'm going to pick everything up. And I'm a little more and there are things I do that I know he's like this like how like why does this woman do this? But I wouldn't I don't think he would call it an ick. And there are certainly things that he does that I'll just kind of like giggle at where I'm like, "You're really going to wear like whatever he wears." And this is like a totally normal thing. But when he goes to the gym in like the winter and he has like the leggings on and he like pulls his socks like all the way up over the leggings or whatever and I'm just like it kind of looks funny. He's like, "Who am I trying to impress?" Like I'm married. It doesn't matter. Um and I don't really care because I love him and we're married. Um, but yeah, I think it's it's very weird random things for women. Like the ones that I've seen like walking uphill, talking to a waiter, buying like a girl said that it was like an ick. Like the way her husband like scanned thing at the like at the selfch checkckout line. Like it's so weird to me. That seems like they're just looking for things. Yeah. And again, that's like the social contagion part of like then it became something like you wanted to look for it and secretly film your spouse, which I have another just major problem with of people, both husbands and wives, significant others of either gender, like filming your spouse and then putting them online and like laughing about them in a public way. And it could be as simple as like I think there are sometimes where it's like very good naturatured and you're laughing and having a good time and that's totally fine. Where you're like posting him walking up a hill and it's like this is so gross. Then you have like millions of people cuz some of these videos go viral and the comments are like, "Oh my god, he's so weird." Whatever. It's like you might be laughing, but that can't feel good to like have that happen. And then on like a higher he's going to be so insecure every time. That's like that's not necessarily like you want to be like supporting and encouraging your significant other. That's another And then that kind of goes into this other thing of it's a very common thing to see women crap on their husbands or their boyfriends online. Like I'm going to like make a video and be like my husband did this, whatever. Why are you posting that on TikTok? Like go speak to him or call your mom if you need to talk to somebody about something rather than There was the one that uh Matt Walsh just posted, right, about the lady talking about the almost divorcing husband who was like perfect on paper, but he didn't attune to her mental load of doing things. Yeah. With housework. And when you get to like the when you get past the like two and a half minute mark of the video and she's kind of talking about how they worked through it. The video is kind of it it's like okay I get what you're trying to say like you were both working you felt like you were taking on more at the home whatever but she started it by being like I almost divorced my husband. He wasn't doing this. he wasn't whatever where it was like the video and maybe this is just because people are chasing clicks and virality or whatever and it's like you could have just said in a marriage it's really important to understand the workload that both of you are taking on and to have open communication this is something my husband and I struggled with and you know he really wouldn't have gotten clicked so you had to like from an algorithm standpoint her video is perfect it it triggered right from the beginning and she but she does a lot of those videos I've like seen a bunch of her stuff and you never see her husband her husband's never on screen and unfortunately itely a huge majority of her videos are about him and all the problems that they've had in their relationship. No, it seems like they're doing pretty well, but it's seems like they're doing that. Well, because it's always like things he doesn't want to show his face anymore. Why would he? And they're always about like we've worked through this now, so that's why I said maybe they're doing fine, but also I don't think I'd be fine if like Alex was online being like, "God, Brett never." So I don't ever screw lids on things. That's his biggest pet peeve of like I'll get a jar of mayo. I'll go make a sandwich. I'll leave it on the counter cuz I don't want to put it away before I've gotten a lot better at this. But I want to go like eat my sandwich and then I'll go back and I'll like pick everything up. But not only will I like leave it on the counter for 10 minutes, I will also leave it on screen. And so it might be like the protein powder or whatever and he picks it up by the top and it like goes everywhere. And it's like if he got online and made a whole video about like Brett made another sandwich and she was made, it's so infuriating. She also like didn't wipe. He's somebody who, you know, washes off his dish every single time after he eats and I'll just like drop it in the sink. That would be It just wouldn't feel even if it's a small thing that I know I could do better at. And I do try and I have gotten a lot better at it because it it's just like a little thing that I can do to hopefully make his life a little bit easier. And also, it's ridicul like I can take the two seconds to like put something away and screw it on. Um it wouldn't feel good to have that blasted online. And it's like you want to uplift the person that you love both in the home and in public. But women have gotten so comfortable with this idea of ragging on men, especially their spouses, and posting about it. And again, I think that it's like it started off as a more, you know, a a minority, but with the social contagion aspect of it, it it gets clicks. People are interested. They feel like they have people who are um you know, people pile on and they're like, "Yes, I'm affirming this is exactly what it is and you just keep going and they see the attention that they get, which I just don't think is healthy at all. So, those are unreasonable things that you could dislike about your partner. What would you say are reasonable things where if you see this, you should run? Like not like just even a red flag, but like an actual reasonable deal breaker that a guy could have towards a girl or a girl could have towards a guy. And I can actually speak to some of the like conversations I've had with friends. I think the big ones that I've felt or that my friends and I have talked about are I think the biggest one is a lack of ambition in a guy where I'm a huge proponent of you know you don't have to wait until your life is perfect to get married or start dating. Like I don't think you have to be your final form. There's a lot of people who feel like I need to do all the things I need to travel and then I need to get the right house. My career needs to be in the right place. I need to like be at the right place with me. Whatever. and then I'll like think about getting married. I think that it's like you should know who you are and you should have your life together. You should not be a mess. But it doesn't matter if you haven't traveled all the places that you want to travel to yet if you don't have the right job. It's like everything in our lives that we're doing now. Like traveling means so much more now that I get to go do it with Alex. Like career wins are so much more meaningful because we're doing them together. Buying this like dream house is so special because it's our dream house and it's like we're building a life together. So that's kind of an aside of it. like a guy doesn't need to be all the way there. But I do think especially if you are more traditional and you're looking for and you're dating intentionally and you want to get married, it's like you need to look for somebody who is, you know, has some gusto in their life and is wanting to make something of themselves. And it doesn't mean that they need to be on some track to make seven figures or whatever it is, but who wants to do something in the world and leave a lasting impact. And I think people often like will point to video games be like, "Oh, he just sits around and makes video plays video games." I don't think video games are the root cause of it. I know a lot of very successful people who like my like female best friend is like a huge gamer obsessed with video games and she's also wildly successful and motivated. Um and Alex will play video games and he's incredibly successful and motivated. But it's that personal like the laziness and just the kind of like aimlessness maybe aimlessness is the right term where I think is a major turnoff to a lot of women because it's like they you know want to get married. Maybe they want to have kids, maybe stay at home. They don't want to be worried about like asking their husband to like could you please maybe get a job that makes you happy? Like do you have something in your life that's motivating you? Like would you be able to support us? Like I'm not asking for a lot of things, but like would I be able to take them off? So I think that's like and again you don't have to be all the way there yet, but to show that you have some drive in your life, I think is really key. Um so that would be a major one. Um, for me, I think excessive drug and alcohol use is major major turnoff. Um, but again, some women are into that kind of stuff and, you know, go out and party and want to do whatever, but in thinking about like my group of friends and what I was looking for, if somebody was like going out every night and drinking a ton and smoking a ton of weed or whatever, that would be a major like our lifestyles are just not aligned. So, that's a big one. Obviously, excessive like physical violence is a huge one. Like even if it's not directed at you, if there's somebody who can't control their tendencies and their emotions in that regard, I would be concerned about going into somebody's life in that regard. It's like if you can't have a handle on that just in the outside world, then how are you going to treat me? Um, so I think those are the top three ones. How would you design the ideal marriage contract in 2025? Oh gosh. I think the ideal marriage contract is something that has kind of already been tried and true in a way. Like I don't think when I look at like a marriage contract, I don't see it as being like the woman does this and works in this capacity and stays and they have all these kids or whatever. But I think that the ideal marriage contract in my mind is serious mutual respect and understanding of each other's strengths and weaknesses and what you bring to the marriage and understanding that there are roles that you will play and that that is a net good thing. Like I know that there are I know that there are things that I am not as skilled at kind of as we were talking about earlier and understanding that I'm not going to try to, you know, fit myself into that role or be angry that Alex is, you know, better at that than I am or whatever it is, but just having mutual respect and knowing that there are roles that you will probably play. And um that was something that we talked about a lot. We did like premarital counseling. It wasn't a whole thing, but that was like the like it wasn't a big curriculum or anything that we did, but we had premarital like meetings uh with the pastor that married us. And that was a big conversation that was like the crux of all the conversations actually was like before you go into this like there's not going to be one marriage that works for every single person. Everybody's marriage is going to be different because everybody their relationships are different. Human beings are different. But you do have to kind of have some expectations and a plan for how things will go of like an understanding of each other's strengths and weaknesses. And if there is a big life change, a a big decision that you are making, who are you going to look to? Like how are you going to handle that? Do you know how to communicate? Have you figured out how you both communicate? Do you tr Brett, do you trust Alex to make that decision if he's going to make the final call? are you marrying somebody that you completely trust to, you know, kind of take the lead in your household? And the answer is like an unequivocal yes. So, yeah, I don't know if there is like a specific like dos and don'ts, but in terms of my life and like the way that I see the world, I do think that there is, you know, a head of household basically in the way that I've described of, you know, a man taking on a leadership role cuz I think that that provides a lot of stability. Um, but that you can't have that without a really strong foundation. can't have that without respect and understanding the role that you play and having each partner value that role. Would the deal breakers be any different for a woman than it would be for a man? Like are there certain specific things that if women do, you should just stay away because it's indicative of some sort of Jack's asking for himself. He's trying to figure out I kind of am actually. Yeah. I think that I think a lot of them are very similar. So, I think the the partying is a big thing. If I was a guy that was wanting a more traditional marriage as a more traditional guy, like a girl that is sleeping around or going out and partying and getting drunk every night, I would probably be concerned about that. Um, unless it's something you're really into and then you guys can do it together. I have friends that are like love raves and they go and they rave together and that's, you know, that's part of their relationship, but they're also not like the most they don't have the most traditional marriage. Um, so I think that is probably pretty aligned. I also don't think that you need to I think the reasons for drive and ambition are going to be different for a woman and a man. But I do think men also and I was literally just going through this with a friend of mine and hearing his, you know, feelings about this. But I do think it is also important for men, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but for a woman that you're interested in to have some kind of purpose in her life, to be driven by something. Not to be like aimless or just like hoping that somebody's going to take care of her. She's just like boopping from one guy to another, but to have something that gives her life meaning and be driven by something. Cuz I think that that that just makes a person more interesting. I think it also shows that and I don't mean like has some career that she's chasing or whatever but has something that she cares about that she looks for whether that is you know being a mother and really wants to be a mom or whether she genuinely loves what she does because it provides meaning to her life um or has a hobby and an interest that she dedicates a lot of time to. I think that that shows um I think it shows that somebody is interesting and multiaceted. I think it shows um gives you insight into their personality. I also think something that I forgot to mention. I was actually talking to Alex about this the other day. He was saying um like I had dogs as a single woman and he didn't and he was like I don't think I would ever get like a pet as a single person. Uh and I actually responded to that and I was like it is actually when I was dating I was like I would love it if a guy either had like a dog had some animal to take care of or owned a home and had to like be responsible for a piece of property. And obviously in this economy that's like a lot to ask but it was less about the tangible like physical item and more so that he is showing that he is responsible for something like responsible for another life responsible for you know paying a mortgage on time and taking care of like he has saved up enough to buy this house and he cares for it. You I mean you obviously talk so much about real estate but of what goes into um managing that and having that be part of your life and it was less again it was less about like I really want you to have a dog. really want you to be a house, but it shows that, okay, you care for something. You have to keep something up. You are um you're indebted to somebody and you have to show up for them. Um like you can't just like leave a dog and go, you know, screw around for like months at a time or, you know, not care for them. So that was I think that also goes back to, you know, having drive, having ambition, and showing that you're responsible for something. Um, and I think that that's good for men to look for in women as well of that they can have responsibility, that they are a partner, um, that will show up for you. I I'm having kind of trouble articulating why I think it's so important that people I'm getting what you're what you're saying. Have a purpose. Yeah. For me, I I like ambition in a partner because I don't want me to be the center of their world. Like, I want them to have something great. that they can focus on outside of me because I also have other things that I want to focus on and I would feel like there's a, you know, an imbalance there if she was just always texting me, always trying to reach out, always involve my go for some women where I think women say one thing online where they're like, "Oh, I want him to like text me back and do all, you know, whatever." But if a guy is only texting you 24/7 and is like revolving around you, I think that that's also because then you see the flip side of that where you know women will make videos and post those chats. I'm like, "Oh my god, why is he texting you so much?" It's like, you can't win in that situation, but it just shows that you have a a life and you care. That's the answer. Wait to text. Text right back. Wait to text. Okay. So, I'm curious in terms of career, going back to, you know, your start, why do you think the comment section blew up so much and what were some of the struggles with those early days on YouTube? Um, I think that it was multiaceted. Comment section definitely filled a niche and I know that it was like a a niche that where there was a hole because I felt it as a young person like comment section really kind of grew out of necessity in a lot of ways. I had even it was a if you watch the preview to the Shan Ryan episode, he put which I don't really know if he like fully described, but at the top of the preview there's like a video of me and I'm doing like this little like I have my like leg up and I look like I'm in a studio and I'm talking about like this cultural issue. That was a pilot that I filmed back in 2021 and I pitched it to like Young Americans for Liberty and Prageru and whenever I was like I think that there should be a show like this because I'm a young woman. I'm just feel like I'm pretty like normal middle America and I listen to people like Dennis Prager and granted I was more like politically inclined and was interested in politics but I listened to you know Ben Shapiro and I would watch his like debates on YouTube and I would listen to Jordan whatever but I didn't see anybody that was like speaking to me like there were very few women and there were very few young people like Will Wit was the only young conservative that I saw not even like conservative conservative but just like not liberal and And I felt like there was that gap. So I came up with a show idea where I would have like kind of inspired by Emma Chamberlain actually where she had all of these like fun cuts and memes and like sound effects and it was very like poppy and silly and fun and attention grabbing cuz I I know for myself that it's hard to hold Jenz's attention. And um so that was part of it and I created this and you uh didn't pick it up and it just didn't like have a home anywhere. And so I was working at Young Americans for Liberty as just like a marketing strategist and doing their social media videos. But in that they had had me be in a lot of their videos kind of like at Prageru where I was just filming like Tik Toks for them and that kind of thing. So Daily Wire had seen me and then when they ended up bringing me in and we had a meeting their idea for a show from their social media team was very aligned with what I had designed in this pilot and the reasons were the same. And the entire team that worked with me on comment section at the beginning, they were all young people. They were all like in their early 20s and they were like, "We don't have this kind of show that's like a reactionary news show that's young that isn't like some 35-year-old guy in a suit. It's not some like woman in a pants suit on, you know, Fox or uh or AP or whatever it is. And we want to create this." And they had already they had also been thinking about like the fun edits and the fun memes because they were like, "We need something that's like attention grabbing, that's funny, that's humorous, that's lighthearted." So they it was like we all kind of had to have a meeting of the minds. So I think that was probably indicative of a broader trend of people just wanting something like this. So I think that helped it take off immediately. We did no paid advertising. We put no paid behind the show, nothing like that. And obviously it helped that, you know, the Daily Wire circuit was helping promote it. But I also had a very different audience. Like my audience very quickly became like not the Daily Wire fan. That became like a very small portion of it and it just took off. And I think that so yeah, that kind of perfect concoction of people didn't have that at the time. I think there's a lot more of that now, which is awesome. There's tons of shows that are like comment section, especially on the right. U more reactionary shows, more streamers have popped up, which is awesome. I think more content is better. I love when people turn on a camera and talk about their beliefs and um and show people that they're not alone in having these common sense, you know, conservative ideas. So, that really took off. And I also think the humor aspect of it really spoke to people because politics is so politics in this culture war especially in 2021 and 2022 was so intense and was so angry and it still is. It was like a different kind of vitrial in 2022 where I mean everybody was slinging insults right and left. Cities were burning. People were marching. It was awful. It was hostile. And the political news and the cultural like podcasts I would listen to were all very intense. And it was like the world's going to end if we don't do this. It's really serious. And they were like serious on both ends. Nobody was having any fun. And I look at politics as kind of like reality TV. And I always say this, it's like it's serious, but it's also insane. Like a lot of the stuff that we went through over the past 5 years and the issues that we've been dealing with, they're kind like they're kind of crazy. Um like even and you can always find humor in everything. And I think I'm probably more adept at this because of my childhood where it's like I went through a lot of pretty serious stuff and I was able to find the light in it. I'm even, you know, I'm able to look back on my childhood and laugh at some of the insane things that I witnessed with my brother and my dad. And it's just kind of like that's life. If you're not laughing, you're crying, basically. And that's kind of the approach that I took with culture and politics of, yeah, this is objectively serious, but there's also like a lot of hilarious stuff. Like we just need to be able to like stop and say like we're kind of going crazy here. And I think that's why my audience grew to not just be like super conservative people that were interested in politics, but just normal people and even people on the left who are looking around in the world and going, "Why are we not admitting that this is just insane?" And like being able to laugh at this because maybe it's not always as serious as people are telling us. Maybe it's not always as serious as people on the news or the, you know, the big Politico podcasters are saying. And I also felt that need like I enjoyed doing the show because I had so much fun because I was able to laugh at things and watch funny videos and find humor in it. So I think the humor and the format played into it. And I also think there's and this is something that's so weird to say, but I think that there's like I don't know I I resonated with a lot of people. And I think it's sort of what we were talking about earlier, which creates problems because then I have to have the conversations of, you know, what do I want to share and how public do I want to be and what do I want to keep private? But I was very open and I went into Daily Wire saying that like I want to keep a social media presence. I want to invite people into my life. I want to be able I don't want to just sit behind a mic and talk about the news. I want to I want people to know me for who I am because I always felt like if I knew who somebody was and knew sort of their story and you know their background, I would be able to kind of resonate and trust them more cuz I could watch talking heads all the time, but if I don't really like what makes you tick. Yeah. Like what built you into who you are? Like why do you have the values that you have? And I always thought that was really important to share. It's like I didn't just come out of the womb like fully formed with these ideas. like I've learned them over time and I have life experiences that have um that have led me to these and have caused me to change my ideas. And so I think me being very open and upfront about a lot of things and involving my personal life and my childhood and stories and things that friends and I were talking about like if I was doing a cultural issue about young people, you know, I would bring in stories, you know, things that my friends and I were dealing with, which you didn't really see on, you know, you don't see that on a traditional like political show. And so it became less about like politics and more about Brett and humor and common sense and kind of giving people a a safe funny place in the world where they could go. Do you operate more on logic or intuition? I think it's a mix. I'm definitely very logically driven. Like I'm somebody who leads with my head 100%. Like that's where I if my head is there I can get my heart there basically. Um, and I definitely like my default is going through things logically and muddling through issues, but I am also I follow my gut for sure and I'm somebody who trusts my gut and believes it. So, I don't think you can have either or, but I definitely lead more with logic. And was leaving the Daily Wire more of a decision out of logic or intuition? Oh, that's a good question. It was both. I think that um you know I basically said all that I can say about what led to me leaving and everything that transpired. Um but I think you know I'm really really grateful for what we created obviously and I loved doing comment section. I loved building comment section. I think it was just such a it was a light in my life and I hope that it was a light in a lot of people's lives and it obviously made a huge splash. Um, and it was really great for those 3 years. And I think in life, you kind of have to know, and this is where it's like logical and kind of gut, you kind of have to know when things have run their course, whether it's a relationship in your personal life or in business or something that you are, you know, creating and putting out in the world. And so, I think it was a mixture of both of kind of logically being like, okay, I think this is it. What was the moment that you knew that you had to move on? I don't know if I can pinpoint. There was not a specific thing or a moment, but it was last summer. It was just I felt like things had changed in my life and what I wanted had changed and I looked forward um into what I saw as my future and did a lot of I think digging and hard conversations with family and friends and Alex about what I was excited about in my life and who I wanted to work with and the autonomy that I wanted to have. It was a huge thing having autonomy. Um, and it was kind of like a just basically a a slow burn, but last spring really started the thought in my head of basically just like what's next and what do I need to put into play in order to build the life that I see for myself, that Alex and I see for each other, and that required taking a a pretty big leap. Was there anything that they could have done to have kept you? Um, everybody has their their number. I wouldn't even say number. I wouldn't even say number. I had say, you know, terms. Yeah. Okay. But truly, there is a um I think I'm grateful that we walked away when that like we separated when we did. I think that that was there was a natural um ending there. A lot has changed at the company recently and they've undergone a lot of executive changes. Um, and I really hope for the best, especially cuz it's like I think people see me and they think that there's some it was the same thing kind of happened when Candace left when everybody was like, "Oh, there's this big and hers was obviously a lot more volatile than mine and there's a lot that's has become more public and has been has played out publicly." But, you know, they think that like she was not friends with me, Michael, or Matt anymore and that we never associated with her. It's like it's hard. Business relationships end and you move on and you start new things, but you still care about the people that are there. It's like Matt and his wife, you know, Alyssa, they're great friends. Alyssa is a really wonderful friend of mine. Michael Nolles is still an incredible mentor of mine and somebody I look to. Um Ben is wonderful. Ben and I have like never had a bad interaction. He was a very, very generous mentor while I was there. Um, and I, so I will never look at, you know, what they're doing and go, I left to hell with you. Whatever it is, it's like, no, I I hope that what they're doing really works and I, you know, for the sake of the people that I love there. Um, I hope, you know, Matt and Michael keep producing amazing things and I love their show. So, I think it's people see one thing and then there's another thing that happens, you know, offscreen and offline. Um, so yeah, I I wish the best, but I think it was it was it was a natural ending at the right time. What was the most difficult part of branching out on your own? Not knowing what I didn't know like of of just having to branch branch into something completely independently when I had had like a kind of a company. I mean, not kind of I had a company behind me. And there's sort of some misconceptions because some people thought that I was like totally produced like and they also think this about like Matt and Michael too of like they come in and their show is written for them and they sit down and they get their hair and makeup done and they are just like a mouthpiece. But all of us like we all researched our own shows. We would have people that would you know help us pull a story or whatever and would be running the cameras. But we I wrote every single episode of the show that I did and I put the stories together. like drove the creation of it as Michael did, as Matt did, as Ben does. Ben writes his own show every single morning. His like 4 hours of air time, whether he's doing radio or whatever, he does all of that. He is he does the mental load. Um, and so that was not hard. So, I think a lot of people there was like, "Oh, is Brett not going to be as like smart now that she doesn't have like a team of Daily Wire writers writing for?" I was like, "Okay, well, that, you know, that was actually one thing that kind of got to my head of like, oh my god, am I are people gonna like see me differently or whatever?" But it was always me. So if they liked me, they were going to hopefully still like me then when I left. Um, but it was mainly the technical side of things. Like they had hired the editors and they managed my advertising and I was a W2 employee so I never had to worry about 1099s or having business expenses. Like my taxes were all super easy, that kind of thing. Um, figuring out how to hire people, that sort of thing. Do I want a do I want to sell my ads internally? How do I want now that I have complete control over how I advertise on the show, how do I want to do that? Is there a more innovative way that I could do that? Um, you know, now do I financially do I need to do 10 shows a week or am I have to be doing two? So, as far as how your business works now, how how is the income generated? Like how does it work? What's your team like? The so the majority of it comes from advertising whether that is like programmatic ads on YouTube or the sponsors that we bring on which I'm very very particular about how we do advertising and we have created the model internally and so we manage it internally which is what I wanted to do at least to start out with the show because I you know for the last 3 years had had somebody else managing everything and selling the ads and you know having the direct relation relationship with the advertisers and I wanted to change that at least as I was starting because I just had no idea how it worked and I wanted to have something that worked for me and my values and my audience and the show and where I wanted it to go. Um, so yeah, the majority comes from our like incredible advertisers and every single advertiser that I work with like we know personally we have a personal relationship with their executive team. These are brands that I actually use in my life. Like I don't I don't take on advertisers that I can't fully stand behind because I think everybody online is trying to sell you something. That's how creators make money. Like you will always have programmatic ads. You will have you'll be selling a course or a subscription or whatever it is. I want to make sure that again going back to this idea that everything is really intentional. I want to make sure that if I'm bringing somebody on to the show that I'm giving them an endorsement that I can 100% stand behind it, that I love the people, that I love the message of the company, that I love the product. Um, and those are personal relationships as well as professional. So, the majority of it is advertising. And then I make a small portion from a subscription platform that I have called Cooper Confidential where I do those advice videos and I have a more personalized newsletter and people can watch adree episodes. Um, but by far the most significant is advertising. And then how many people are on your team? Like what does it look like? Let me count. I have a um Alex who works on my ad sales and we're expanding that team possibly soon, but right now it's literally just been him creating the entire program. And then I have a manager. I have a producer um who's a technical producer and I basically just been producing everything myself in terms of you know creating the show and branding stuff. And then I have a manager and we just brought on a more creative producer to hopefully just help grow and innovate and drive everything that we're doing from the subscription model to the show just because I think I need some creative support in that regard just so I can kind of I think it's really hard when your brand is you and it's hard to like step outside of that and think of like driving the creative forward. So I'm bringing her in and she's somebody that I've worked with before. And then we have um someone who I've also worked with previously who manages all my posting. So he does all the SEO, gets the thumbnails made, helps with titling. I end up picking the titles, but is like, "Hey, here's the direction I he puts the, you know, the descriptions together, make sure it gets uploaded to all the correct RSS feeds." Uh so yeah, that's him. And then I have a publicist and an attorney, and they're all like, it's pretty lean. Yeah. Um, but the best part is it's like it's growing, but I'm very intentional with how it grows and it's all people that like I genuinely love and who I implicitly trust cuz again very complicated when it's like you're the brand and I'm very careful about how I'm, you know, how I represent myself publicly and the messages that I put out in the world and I want to make sure that whoever I bring on has my best interests at heart and has the brand's best interests at heart, which I think is hard to find. So I feel very very fortunate. So they're all just really really incredibly talented but also just wonderful wonderful people who I trust and that was super important to me. All right, so we got to wrap it up but we have some rapid fire questions. I asked Chad GBT for some questions and usually it doesn't it doesn't do a great job. This is a hilarious question. I want to I want to ask it to you from Chad. Who do you think is smarter, Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson? Oh Jordan Peterson. Do women have too much dating power in today's society? Yes. Is it worse to be poor or lonely? Lonely. Do influencers contribute to society or drain it? Oh, depends on the influencer. Is therapy culture ruining resilience? Yes. Should employers be able to see your Only Fans or Tik Tok before hiring you? Ooh, I think they already do. It's public knowledge. Should kids under 13 be banned from having smartphones? Banning is hard, but I think parents should be strict and not allow it. If a couple disagrees on politics, can they make it work in the long term? Yes, but I think that's becoming increasingly difficult in 2025. I think 30 years ago, yes, my aunt and uncle did it, but today they actually are on the same page because their values are the same and they kind of had to converge. I think in 2025, it's very different. Should voting require a basic civics test? For sure. And citizenship and an ID. Does universal basic income ever make sense? In a utopia society, yes. But a lot of things would make sense in a utopia society where there is a strict social construct or contract where everything is perfect and there are no uh there are no outliers. I don't think it works in our society today. Brett, thank you so much for coming on the show. What a pleasure. Thank you to the team here. Thanks, Graham. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thank you, Nashville. Thank you to the studio. if you could tell them to subscribe. Sometimes they don't listen to us. Subscribe. You should absolutely subscribe to this podcast because it is popping off and they do amazing interviews and they interview people on all sides of the spectrum from so many different industries and giving them the greatest pitch ever right now. It's literally an insane podcast. You should subscribe. Thank you so much, guys. Do it. It's free. It's free. Till next time.