Brandon Turner’s Shocking Prediction for the 2025 Housing Market

I've been buying real estate now for 20 years right 13,000 units a billion dollars of real estate everything has changed the entire Market is flipped the supply of homes for sale is low and prices are 53% higher than they were 5 years ago just hang on it is incredibly hard to lose then there are mortgage rates which have more than doubled where do you go to find good deals there's a 100 strategies we could talk about I tell give you my favorite there's a bidding war for literally every home on the market this is going to sound really silly it's not that hard to make a billion dollars when you're investing in real estate because and last year we saw the lowest level of transactions in 29 years so starting from zero with no connections whatsoever how confident are you that you can make a million dollar in a year given what I know right now I'm 100% confident I can make a million dollars from nothing my first year and things have to bottom out and they haven't bottomed out yet people think if they just like do the right thing they they probably won't get rich anyway but I'm here to tell you like if you do these steps you will get rich [Music] Brandon Turner thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour we really appreciate it thank you so much for letting us stay here in in Maui really excited to talk to you on this one because you are the real estate guy thanks man no thanks for coming out it's always a pleasure I me last time we were in your your neck of the woods in Vegas and now we get to hang out in Maui and we had to play with some whales yesterday that was a good time now I'm curious I'm sure everyone is wondering is now a good time to buy a house now is always a good time to buy a house when you have a long enough perspective right it's always a good time to buy a house when you have a perspective that says hey 10 years from now I mean in American history there's never been a period of time where real estate's been lower 10 years in the future than it is today does that make sense it's always in every 10year period of America you can look back and say real estate is better than it was 10 years ago and I don't see that changing in fact I see that getting even more pronounced over the next few years how has it changed since 2020 though the entire Market is flipped everything is different today everything is different today so uh interest rates are double what they used to be and so for those who are unaware what that means it basically means your payment is like double of what it used to be so if you had a house that was you know you're buying a $250,000 house and maybe your payment was I don't know let's call $1,700 a month before now you might be paying $3,000 a month give or take and it's that's a big chunk but worse than that or equally bad to compound the effect is prices are sometimes double what they were four years ago so not only are yeah interest rates higher which makes the payment higher so is is the property value which makes the actual payment out of your pocket way higher so the answer the question should you buy a house if you can afford it would be my my if you if you can afford it reasonably yeah house would be a great investment long term now if I push back on that please I'm looking around and I would love to buy a house but it seems like renting is so much cheaper that why would I spend let's just call it uh just for even numbers $10,000 a month on a mortgage property taxes Insurance when I could rent The Identical home for $5,200 a month yeah this goes back to perspective right if you were to own that house for three years 100% I would not I would not buy a house if you're gonna live in there for two years one year probably not but if you're going to hold that own that house for 5 years 7 years 10 years 20 years you're going to make so much more than $10,000 a month on average over that time period because that house that you bought for whatever call it a million dollars is in 10 years from now it's going to be worth call it $2 million maybe 2 and a half million maybe three like price are going up especially because we have just a massive housing shortage in America so when you look at over a long period of time this isn't getting better it's getting worse for affordability do you think that more houses will be built do you think the regulatory environment is going to get a little bit more friendly to real estate developers and that can kind of solve that issue a little bit or do you think that we're only going to get more tight there's going to be more regulations and it's going to be harder to to build new homes yeah I mean the government will have to do something right like here's the problem in a nutshell what happened great recession hit everyone lost you know a lot of bad things happened they stopped building from like 2008 9 10 11 12 nobody was building anything they started picking back up again 12 13 14 15 started you know building which is great but when you're not building and more and more people are either in Coming to America and buying houses and you know people are having kids and kids are growing up there became a housing shortage but there what with the second I don't know what you call the Second Great Recession you know like 200 you know we'll call it co sure Co happened everyone stopped building again and it hasn't picked back up again the only building being done is at the top of the market in fact Wall Street Journal had an article just out the other day it just said there's a lot of apartments available they're just for the rich people uh there's almost nothing being built for the average American right now uh so what does that mean again supply and demand so to answer your question it's it's a tremendous problem the government has to do something whether that and we can debate this and and the government they don't know what they're doing so they can either release you know reduce regulation and try to allow more building which I don't see that happening they can try to find a creative way to get more people into homes like uh California is doing right now uh with the adus which is really fascinating San Diego especially is wild right now uh and you could do that or the government could just start subsidizing Americans rent uh and I think it's going to be a combination of all three that would be insane if the government subsidizes people's rents because that just means landlords are going to raise their prices yeah so people yeah people are like are you afraid of rent control are you afraid of like or you know like the government stepping in you would you do section all those things all the answers um yeah of course I would love to have that like I don't mind regulation it just makes me richer and what I mean by that is the money the more the money money gets printed and pumped into the economy landlords are usually ones that end up with the money uh it's business owners and landlords get that money because it goes to the tenant fine they pay their rent landlords raise their rent we get more we yeah it doesn't solve the problem but that's how America likes to solve problems that's interesting because during covid when they printed all the money gave away all this free money you're right like the people that received the actual stimulus you see thei people time gained the am of crazy magnitudes yeah yeah my wealth grew by tens of millions of dollars during covid because my properties that I owned just went up in value because the rents went up because people yeah it just it was a it was a weird time there was so much money in the economy yeah so there's the argument that home values really aren't going up it's simply that the United States government is printing more money what are your thoughts on that it's it's probably true like in other words if I had yeah my house is worth a million do today it's going to be worth $2 million in 10 years okay that's probably reasonable to say but also the gallon of milk is worth with four today is going to be eight then so in other words yeah inflation is causing the housing to go up that's for sure but it goes back to the original point is should you buy a house well if you don't own the house then now you still have nothing 10 years from now and your milk is still $8 a gallon so like you can you can argue the whether it's right or wrong or you can argue whether what's is it inflation is that just supply and demand but regardless if you own the asset then you're playing with the game you're not fighting against it and your payment is fixed whereas people that rent their payment basically is at the whims of the market yeah I mean it's fixed as long yeah for as long as you get a good mortgage which is super important uh you get to fix mortgage instead of a variable which most people are pretty good with that taxes and insurance though can kill people a little bit uh you know if you're if you're whatever your taxes are at $110,000 a year and then it bumps it up to $20,000 a year yeah your payment's going up by you know almost $1,000 a month that's real but it's not uh you know it's not going up by thousands of dollars a month you're not going to be completely hosed if you own a house with a fixed mortgage yeah now for those unfamiliar with you and what you do could you give us a bit of a backstory of how you got started in real estate sure and in essence almost what qualifies you to talk about this yeah all right it begins with Coldstone Creamery you guys have that ice cream Cold Stone yeah great ice cream right so I was singing for tips we literally they don't do that anymore do they do they sing for tips been a long time I didn't get sung too I went there dude yeah back because you don't tip yeah so back in the day uh I you work at coolstone and you sing when somebody puts a tip like you know thank you for your dollar listen to us holler I don't know why I remember that one uh so you sing for tips and uh that was my job I was making $8 an hour plus tips average like 15 bucks an hour uh and I decided to rent this like four-bedroom apartment and then I rented out each of the bedrooms to just guys from the local College which is you know an experience in itself but all of a sudden I was living for free and so that's how I got into real so just people know I did not come from money my dad's a meat cutter my mom did daycare in my house like we were very like blue collar lower middle class uh but I discovered like oh this is cool so anyway so I B I did that I ended up buying a house just like a house and then rented out the bedrooms to a bunch of buddies did the same thing lived for free then I bought a duplex that was cool lived in one half rent out the other where didd you get the idea to do that uh it was kind of an accident actually I was bowling with some friends and one of the persons I was bowling with uh I said hey do you have a place I can rent and she's like don't rent rent just buy and I was like but that's crazy I'm 18 or 19 years old like why would and they're like no don't just trust me she's like just trust me buy don't rent so I did and uh yeah that's literally where the idea came from and uh yeah and and all those houses that I then bought and rent out the bedrooms not only did I make cash flow but like they all went up in value over time in fact one of them I just sold like that second that first duplex I just sold last year and I made like you about 100 Grand over a decade which is not a ton of money but I only paid 80,000 for the property and so anyway that's how I got into it is just Scrappy just trying so we went from one to two two to four four to 10 25 and today we're at a little over 13,000 across about 20 different states there's a there's a lot of in in between there story but that's the that's the beginning and end what about your involvement with Bigger Pockets because that's how I found you through Bigger Pockets yeah Bigger Pockets Bigger Pockets so I remember my very first property I ever had uh that was in that house and that's when I decided like I'm going to be a real estate guy I'm going to buy real estate so I remember telling my dad I was actually studying for the LSAT you know the LSAT the Law School Entrance Test right uh I'm I'm studying for it and uh I tell my Dad hey I'm actually not going to go to law school I changed my mind I'm gonna be a real estate investor and he's like that's that's crazy like why would like secure job all that and he goes what are you gonna do Brandon if the tenant doesn't pay rent I was like oh shoot I don't know like I I was like you're right I never mind and I almost changed my mind but what I did I went to Google I typed in I don't think it was Google dog pile maybe I'm like whatever that old before Google everyone used Maybe yaho who what to do when tenants don't pay rent and this little tiny blog Forum called Bigger Pockets pops up and uh I don't remember what the answer was I remember I printed it out and I've had it for years it's somewhere in a file here but I printed it out but what it meant was there were answers to all those like problems like when people are like yeah but you shouldn't do real estate investing because of ABC every ABC out there there is an answer from somebody who overcame that and then made millions and millions of dollars so it like expanded my mind to say okay well maybe I can do this so that's what got me into Bigger Pockets actually I was one of the very first signups on their website I mean it was basically just Josh dorkin running in his basement and uh I jumped in and started volunteering to edit blog posts for him I was like I can I can help out let me just edit blog post I pretended I was good at English and grammar which I was not uh that led to the podcast and so I started the podcast alongside Josh and then the podcast just took off and became the biggest uh real estate podcast and like we were number two in the business category for almost a decade that's incredible Dave Ramsey and us and I was like can never beat Dave that is so cool so what's your most difficult deal that you've ever done so far across those 13,000 units but you know what before we go into that you have to ask yourself the question what does the future hold for business because these days everything changes so quickly if you ask nine different experts you're going to get 10 different answers be really helpful to have a crystal ball but until that happens over 40,000 businesses have already future proofed their business by switching to netsuite by Oracle the number one Cloud Erp bringing accounting financial management inventory and HR into one fluid platform you see with just one unified business management Suite you have just one source of Truth giving you all of the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions plus with real-time insights and forecasting you're peering into the future with actionable data when you're closing the 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house and this this giant uh duplex comes for sale it's like 4,000 square F feet top bottom duplex I mean there's like literal like blood spatters on the ceiling from like shooting up like drugs it was wild but like I mean nasty house but good bones good structure amazing view of the town that I lived in and I get the thing for like 45 Grand I'm like this is going to be I'm going to make so much money I'm like I'm going to put maybe 40 into it I'm going to sell it for 200 I'm going to make 100 grand like that was my thinking going into it I go to a hard money lender which these are companies uh that lend money to house flippers I go to a hard money lender and they that I'd worked with before and I knew he's like yeah no chance I'm not going to lend that and I was like but but here's all my numbers he's like no it's going to be way more expensive than that it's not worth that much money you know my answer was to him like I didn't say this literally but in my head was like screw you man watch me and like I went and like talk to like 20 different lenders found one guy willing to do it I go in there it didn't take 40 Grand to fix up the property it took more like 80 Grand to fix the property up so now I'm in for like 120 and I was I did most of the work myself a whole year of my life was working on this project and my wife and I would work every day the thing I put on the market for 180 instead of 200 okay we go a little cheaper doesn't sell at 180 not 170 not 160 not 150 not 140 not 130 not 120 115 sell that so I lose money on this deal I mean I lose probably 20 grand call it uh and that that was the hardest I mean it was a year of my entire life and to lose money I could have literally like laid on the couch and done nothing and made more money watching like soap operates like but the reason I love that story is had I kept it a duplex it would have cash flowed over $1,000 a month back then it would be probably two or 3,000 a month today had I kept it as a duplex I wouldn't have done as much work it would have been probably more like you know 203 $40,000 worth of work it would have been a great duplex today here we are eight nine years after I sold that maybe 10 years after I sold that property uh it's probably worth 700,000 no yeah and so the less learned is like yeah flipping is fun like it's cool to take a house flip it make some money uh but if you just hang on to real estate just hang on it is incredibly hard to lose if you can just hold on and I could have hold I could have held on just fine so that was the hardest deal I've done there then I got a $72 million apartment complex in Texas that uh like they you know we were making maybe a million dollars in cash flow U and then the government's just like oh by the way taxes are now a million dollars higher so it's just like it's not quite a million but it just wipes out so much cash flow so now we're just like okay well we got to figure this out so now we're looking at doing midterm rentals like traveling nurse stuff inside of it maybe doing some breaking up Apartments into like um co-living sort of like rent by the room we call them micro Apartments like trying to figure out how okay when the taxes go up how do we deal with it how do we figure it out and again 20 years from now not worried about that property but right now challeng is there any recourse on that where you could go and say actually we don't think our property should be assessed at this yeah it's a great question and yeah everybody can do this whether it's your primary residence whether it's an investment property you can challenge a tax assessment for sure and we did and you you fight for it and every area's got a little different process uh and we did fight for it and I think we got a little bit reduction on that uh Insurance also went up at the same time and that sucks but that's you know that's just a that's the game we're playing so I'm curious because I get these in the mail all the time these mailers that say we think you're overpaying on your property taxes hire us that we could fight it and bring it down and we'll get a percentage of the savings is that a scam that's a great question I get them as well I've never hired one of them I would guess this uh it's probably not a scam it it's probably just a whole like it's probably a whole lot easier than people think to do it and so they can just go through themselves kind of like that business filing thing that right now everyone's supposed to do you know what I'm talking about like right now there's some like I mean obviously people are listening to this in the future but there's some like we have to file some business thing the government changed some rule it's like one paper it's free to do it online you can do it in five minutes but there's like a ton of companies right now that'll do it for you for 500 bucks and it's like don't do that it's a horrible so so get this so I our our accountant emailed us saying hey you got to fill this out by like January 15th y fine I Google it I go through the form and I realize at the very end it says perfect submit this for $179 and I realized wait a second I clicked on the first link it was a sponsored link and this company has the same website and they charged you $180 and then I just went back and found the actual website did it for free in that wild the same amount of time I want to make sure I sign this form I don't know what this form is but does it save money what is the I feel like yeah so all it is is it's the government's trying to collect information from small businesses who make under $5 million a year for an LLC or an S corporation it's it's basically just a statement of who you are how you make your money but it doesn't make you any money I think I I remember doing that yeah yeah everyone knows I make less than $5 million dude you just got called out no it's isn't one of your companies your other companies are is your okay what's interesting is every time I hear someone talk about real estate I'm like this sounds easy it sounds very doable and then I always take it to the nth degree I'm like okay if I were to go all in on real estate what does that look like and then I start getting nervous because I'm like if I buy all of my real estate in Las Vegas what's my like meteor plan if let's just say Lake me dries up and then they can't Source water what happens to Las Vegas if you buy all in California and then there's another California wildfire there's earthquake or if you buy all in like the Midwest and you have a tornado or what if like government then in 20 years is like you know what we are going to develop ultra high density living and it's going to be super cheap and super affordable because maybe we actually have like a government that's willing to do something like that and then everyone moves into that and then there's no reason for Real Estate maybe they deregulate and then all of these people go and they build all these super cheap actual affordable homes that people can move into rather than mansions that ever been everyone's been developing over the past 20 years like what is the the uh I would say macro threat being a real estate investor let me first ask you this podcasting when I think about get going all in on podcasting in YouTube I'm like oh but what if AI takes my place in five years from now and there's no longer podcasting in YouTube anymore what if my entire career that I build is just in the toilet in five years because I because I went into something and then it got disrupted that could happen right but it's not stopping you guys from doing this it's not stopping me from doing it so another it depends because like right now podcasting is kind of like the thing for like that's like our job you know and I we can pivot but something like real estate you're using your Capital to then buy something that in the event of you know this meteorite plan or whatever could be completely worthless sure and so there's so many other avenues like you could just invest in like International index funds like Grand loves to do to get 3% return or you can buy you know like us-based index funds like there's so many different choices and real estate sounds very appetizing but then I'm also concerned because that is also you can be subjected to macroeconomic things that just happen for sure I'm just trying to alleviate the fear uh the fear decision or the decision- making based on fear of saying Hey what if something goes wrong uh maybe I shouldn't do it because of that right one of my favorite lines I don't know where I first heard it but no risk it no biscuit like if you don't risk you're not going to get the rewards right real estate like yeah you could go and get 3% returns and some like very Ultra safe thing that's fine uh and if you are Ultra rich or you have a lot of money you're not in the building phase that's that maybe is fine but for most people when they're getting into real estate investing like in are like that are listening to the show they're not sitting on $10 million of capital that just want like what do I do with this money right they're probably sitting on 50 Grand okay 5050 Grand at 3% per year they're never getting rich off that right so you have to take risk in order to get the biscuit if that makes sense so on one regard there's that there is diversification though of course like I don't like putting all my eggs in one real estate basket I yeah yeah different loc I mean we're in 20 States I'm across different areas even like forget Open Door Capital which is my my large company I'm also doing my own personal like real real estate I have a few small properties here and there I got a couple condos here in Maui that I do on Airbnb I've got a property I just closed actually what two days ago in Florida that I'm going to do rent by the room which is a cool strategy we can maybe talk about uh I got another one Atlanta I'm closing on so I've got different areas with different strategies now you know the more you diversify the less expertise you have so there's a danger there we got to be careful not to get too wild and crazy because the money in real estate today is in like being world class the M like if you're not world class I would say the same thing with podcasting and YouTube and all that like you got to be world class you can't just put up a video and hope to get a million views you can't just buy a house and hope to make a ton of money like if you're not good then you're going to struggle mediocre mediocrity doesn't really have a place anymore in the business world in America how do you find a good deal o all right uh good deal first of all we got to Define what a good deal is uh most people when I like a newbie comes to me and they're like I want to find a good deal what is a good deal well I mean just something that makes me money well how much uh I want to make a a$ th000 a month okay would you if you put a million dollars into the deal let me ask you this if you if you invested a million dollars into a deal and you made $1,000 a month is that a good deal horrible yeah because a what what 1.2% return on your money that's terrible might as well stick it somewhere else what if you put $1,000 into a deal and you made $1,000 a month fantastic that's a fantastic deal right so we have to define the terms like what do you mean by good deal so uh I want to say hey I want like personally I like to get you call it 8 to 12% cash on cash return which means in year one I'm going to get back 8 to 12% of whatever I invested just in year one that doesn't account for the future if you want to go like long-term over a seven-year hold let's say I want to maybe say hey I want 15% per year of my money uh whether you calculate as an irr which gets a little in the weeds irr or average annual return but I want to get like 15% plus per year where' that number come from it's double the stock market is like roughly like that's literally just a rule of thumb I'm like well if I'm going to do the risk of real estate and the work of real estate investing I want to get an outsize return I don't want to get 7% over the next 10 years per year when I can just dump that in the stock market but where do you find that because I'm looking all the time I don't see any deals in Vegas Commercial Real Estate tends to cap out about 6 and a half% when I look at any options that are out there on the market you either have to do a substantial amount of work y to renovate and raise rents or it's better just not to do that and practically invest in anything else instead sure yeah real estate does not work like it used to I mean this is a big thing real estate in 2025 is not real estate in 2020 or 19 18 17 whatever the game has changed because of what we talked about earlier right interest rates are higher property values are higher so what do we do well we can just choose a Sit it out and just invest somewhere else and that's fine that's what some people do I'm a much bigger fan of this idea of how do we make cash flow work how do we make a good return in today's market so that gets to what I call like The Fringe uh of the real estate strategies where again the old days you find a house it's listed by a real estate agent in Vegas it's $280,000 you put 20% down you make a nice 12% return on it everyone wins and you're all happy it doesn't work just can't do it like your mortgage is higher than what the rent is because rents are not going up right now at the same Pace that housing uh prices are so we have to say well how do we make better cash flow I'll give you a few examples I mean I have a list of like 20 of them uh but one of them would be uh rent I mentioned earlier rent by the room they also call it co-living there's a company called pads split that does this they're kind of like the Airbnb of the co- living no this is going to sound wild but imagine taking a five bedroom house adding three or four more bedrooms in it like you turn the garage into two bedrooms you don't you take a living room and turn it into a bedroom maybe two bedrooms and all of a sudden you've got nine bedrooms in this house for maybe 10 grand 20 grand of work to get that it's pretty simple to put up some simple walls that are just kind of temporary walls I mean like they're real walls but you could remove them later so now you got nine bedrooms in this house and that house normally would rent for $2,500 a month and your mortgage would be $2,500 a month you're just breaking even so that's not a good deal but when you can charge now let's call it $800 a month month for nine different bedrooms what is that $7,200 a month and so you just went from 2500 and break even to 7200 now you got to pay some ex extra expenses people are going to move out more often water sewer garbage all that you got to cover but you easily can make a th000 to $2,000 a month on one of these houses now I know people are listening going like that's insane who's going to live in something like that half of America will live in something like that you're single and you make less than $50,000 a year like there's a good chance that you would rather pay $800 a month to live in one of those then $1,500 a month or 2,000 to live in a studio apartment does that make sense we had a buddy who did that in Vegas he stopped doing it because they kept having to call the police yeah yeah he he wasn't doing pads split and that was in a sketchier part of town but but he did this two different properties were he rented by the room and the police got called many times because think he had fires he had three fire like I would talk to him and be like I had another fire and I'm like like what number are you at and he's like dude just set fire to the room he just like had a breakdown and just lit it on fire so I love stories like this I call I call it like my uncle invested in real estate once stories right everyone's got like yeah my uncle do like when you when I tell people I do real estate yeah my uncle invested in real estate once and had Three Fires right everyone's got that story uh my uncle lost a shirt in real estate uh I I I caution people around the idea of taking anecdotal stories and applying it to principal right so I heard this happened principal there are tens of thousands I would probably argue hundreds of thousands of units in America that are these rent by the room and by and large they work just fine and so when you hear the stories like when I hear a story of like yeah my uncle tried real estate investing ones and man the tenant burned down his house and he uh you know stole his wife and like the whole thing you're like well did your uncle the screen for tenants did he use like a background check and a criminal check and did he hold them to the stuff and it's always I mean they don't know but it's of course the answer is usually know is it just they're mediocre landlords or mediocre I'm not saying your buddi I don't know and sometimes there just crazy stories I mean I I I had a I have a mobile home park I think I said this on this on the show last time maybe not I had a mobile home park where one of the tenants just like robbed a bank and then just went on the run like from the feds like yeah that's a weird story we had we couldn't evict him as easy because we couldn't find the guy and it was like took months to get him out those stories will happen I had another tenant in that same place she was a prostitute who would advertise her services on like Craigslist or whatever and she'd get people to come to her trailer uh her mobile home and uh they would come they would get undressed they'd get all ready and then her boyfriend would come out with a gun and Rob him uh send him out naked out into the night and of course they're not going to go to the police with it because like they're there to then all the neighbors yeah so like it was just a really interesting scam that that it's actually pretty smart uh like we have these stories right how did they get caught uh because they got caught because one of the guys who got in got scammed he calls the property management company from like a burner phone he's like he's like obviously I'm not going to go to the police with this I'm not going to say my name but this is what just happened you guys should really look into it so then uh we had to look into it we had to tell the police and they started investigating and the whole thing was there a sting operation I don't think there was a sting I think they just con confronted the lady and her boyfriend and I think that scared them enough to leave and they ended up getting evicted a little while later because they stopped paying rent I think they disappeared and yeah anyway those stories happen right those happen when you have thousands of units especially you're going to have those crazy stories uh I just I caution people against the idea of like there a bad thing happened now are there challenges with a thing like rent by the rim 100% there are massive challenges I'm not saying you should go do that I don't do much of it I'm very very very little of my portfolio is that way however it does work there are many examples of people who have are getting a, to $2,000 in cash flow each home and they just learn how to manage correctly so this is that final point is every one of the strategies and I can name a few more like uh Adu development you build these little adus in the backyard California's leading the way on that I love it uh Assisted Living Residential Assisted Living turning a house into a uh you know almost a rent by the room but for elderly right yeah there's problems with that everything I say here uh build to rent communities I love build to rent like you build a community of like 5 10 20 houses and rent them all out you can you can make really good money that way every one of these people listening something pops in their head and goes yeah but this yeah but this yeah but this and uh that's hard like oh man imagine how difficult it would be to manage like a dozen tenants that living in one house yeah you're right that would be really hard you know what's also really hard being poor right like being broke that's really hard you know it's also being like in other words like you pick your hard and money is in hard like fast money maybe the way of saying that fast money is in hard uh when you can solve a hard challenge like managing a bunch of tenants in one house you're going to make a bunch of money if you can manage the difficulty of getting licensed to do a residential assisted living in a community super hard I got a buddy doing that he won't like every house makes him $155,000 a month in profit when he's done yeah but what about Staffing yep that's hard it's hard to find good Staffing it's hard to be poor yeah I'm actually doing an Adu no are you really La yeah that's awesome I love that I never thought I would put more money in Los Angeles the Adu thing is I think one of the you asked the question earlier should people buy real estate today and the answer is yet yeah longterm if you can hang on to it sure it's a great idea adus are a way to hang on to it because you can build an ad I know what are you spending on yours you know so I'm spending $200,000 on mine I'm able to borrow the entire amount as a pledged to asset line at 5.26% and I'm guessing I should be able to make worst case a 10% uh cash cash returns so I should be able to net 20 grand a year from a $200,000 investment which you know I'm paying $10,000 in interest so it's basically a free th000 a month yes worst case scenario best case scenario I make maybe a 15% cash cash return it what's Wild now if you wanted to maximize that even more you could potentially Airbnb it if it's in the right area in the right legislation yeah you could midterm rental it though you get you get stage like where let's say normal a normal Adu might rent for whatever $2,500 a month right uh that's cool but if you put the furniture in there and then you go list it on like uh furnish finder you might be able to get $35 to $3,900 for that same unit same thing uh you maybe cover cover a couple of the utilities but all of a sudden you just Jack your rent your your income even higher and there's other strategies as well you can do the same thing you can also add sometimes multiple adus now I mean people in San Diego are putting like 10 15 20 adus on one lot uh and just property value I mean their value of their property goes up uh their cash flow goes up it's it's a phenomenal strategy I love that you yeah I'm trying one it goes well I'm doing it on the other place the duplex I used to live in turn that garage into an Adu that goes well then I got the place in West LA where I want to do an Adu there yeah yeah that game that game is strong that's how Hawaii is survived I mean here in Hawaii every house pretty much has an Adu that's the only way to make it like this house where I'm at right now I got an Adu right there my parents are staying for the month in it I got another Adu in the front yard like another studio apartment I could rent out that Adu if my parents weren't there I could rent that for 3,500 a month Maybe 4,000 I could rent the front unit for 2,000 my only like my mortgage on this place right now is only like eight so like I could live almost for free in this house I could I could have actually I thought about it this room we're in right here I was like I'm going to turn it into an Adu I was going to turn that into the bathroom back there and this was going to be a studio i' read for $2,000 a month and it would have been you know whatever P would you have wanted to do that I mean I don't need to do it uh but it's always an option and if I didn't have as much money right now if I wasn't as like well off as I am 100% I mean I have house hacked uh which is like the term we use when you live in one unit rent the other I've house hacked almost continually non-stop for the past 20 years uh even living here in Hawaii my last house I just moved here uh but the last house I was at for the last seven years gr you've been there uh my buddy Ryan Murdoch rented in the backyard he paid three $3500 a month for the last seven years something like that like what are your thoughts on modular homes I see these like storage crate homes or the things like the home you can buy on Amazon and it's like $40,000 to add an extra unit is that like is there any company that's doing it like in a legit way or what are the issues with that yeah it's a good question uh I I like I like where the industry is going the the industry have like these small Built Homes uh boxable is a company that's doing it really really well right they're out of Vegas love Bo yeah I love those little things the the thing the problem with those is like they can advertise stuff like hey you can get a Cita they call it there like you can get a boxable house for $50,000 wow that's awesome but then you got to sight prep your property and you got to get the water sewer garbage hookup you had to do all that that might be another permitting all that might be another 50 Grand and then the house 400 foot and so then you're like okay well I'm at 100 grand for a 400 foot house you actually could build a 400t house for under 100 Grand without doing one of those fancy like names now the the reason I like them is because we're moving into that direction where we're almost turning homes into like Ikea like they're going to get the prices will come down it's going to it's going to be one of the solutions to the affordable housing crisis in America if if ever I mean cities are following one after another they're following California California always leads the charge on this stuff right so California is doing the Adu thing it's working really well it's solving a lot of the affordability problems uh we have a problem with parking though but elon's going to solve that in the next few years and so they like once we no longer need vehicles uh and majority people will just hop in their Auto automatic you know Tesla and whatever we don't we won't worry about the parking much any longer so it's got It's a temporary problem with the parking right now uh but that's solving the problem city after City will be adopting this it'll be across the whole country in the next few years how many ways are there to make money in real estate and what do you say are the best ways like what are the ways that people also don't really think about the average time to hire for most organizations is 30 to 45 days are you tired of a costly and lengthy hiring process that's why you should simplify and speed up your recruitment by using the experts of our sponsor Express Employment Professionals they help you reduce time to hire cut down on multiple interviews and reduce recruitment costs so whether you're looking for contract workers or a new team member they streamlined recruiting candidate screening and hiring process is more efficient than your own and that's why you should visit expresspros.com today with the link Down Below in the description haven't used a staffing company before we know you enjoy learning new things and keeping up with Trends and efficiencies make a change this year with your hiring businesses are navigating a hiring landscape that has never been more expensive or regulated start at expresspros.com to find a location near you with more than 860 locally owned offices you'll get the hiring support you need at expresspros.com I I like to say there's four primary like I call them wealth generators to real estate uh and this is the like the simplest way of explaining it uh when you own a rental property you get cash flow if you buy right like extra money every single month profit in your pocket huge mistake people make though there's a difference between like what people think is cash flow and then pure cash flow and when I say pure cash flow I mean it's been like put through the fire like gold is purified by throwing it through fire it's been purified through the fire I mean you own Randle properties you know like you can make like you know I'm making 500 a month 500 a month 500 a month 500 a month $2,000 water heater yeah oh dang it 500 a month 500 a month 500 a month 5 a month $2,000 stove so like you have to account for those big big items that only happen once a decade but there's 50 of them in a home and so like you count like they happen all the time so as long as you're actually buying a property that makes money uh pure cash flow you get month money every single month that gets you Financial Freedom you get enough of them like back when I started I said I wanted $100 per month per unit that was just my number 20 years ago I used that's gone up maybe a little bit now but for Simplicity if you needed $100 in actual pure in your pocket post tax like because there's not a lot of tax anyway we'll get to that in your pocket $100 per month per unit okay how many units do you need to retire if you had $10,000 in bills and like that would make you feel comfortable okay 100 units and you might think that's C how am I ever going to buy a hundred houses well you don't you just get in a multif family you buy the house later on you buy a duplex and you're like okay figured that out you buy the 10 unit oh I figured that out you buy the 50 unit and you're done in three years that's cash flow uh number two is appreciation obviously property values go up over time yes there's dips but when you look at all of American History property values always go up over time over the long run that's where wealth is built right like my yeah cash flow is cool I can pay my bills with it great but the reason I'm absurdly wealthy is because my property that I buy for I mean example the what I bought here in Hawaii I bought it that I just moved from I paid 1.7 for at the time I was like this is the stupidest thing I've ever done I'm paying $1.7 million for a house how could I be so dumb why would I do that that's stupid and my buddy David Green who is my co-host on Bigger Pockets David's like man in 30 years what that what's that house worth I'm like God probably like 3 and a half he's like and you can rent out all the units separately on there because you could like carve it up and rent it out if you had to and you had to go move back home and work at Coldstone again you could rent it out and break even I'm like oh yeah sure he's like so worst case scenario Brandon worst case is 30 years from now you're worth $3 million more because you paid off the property I'm like oh yeah worst case is I'm really rich it's like okay so that's appreciation now ironically I held it for seven years I just sold it for 3.2 million actually be close today and so like three point yeah right that's appreciation that just added you know almost whatever that is almost a million and a half to my like net worth plus we paid the property off that's the third way you make money in real estate property you you buy it at whatever 1.7 uh and I had a mortgage for 1.2 I think it was but at the end of seven years I only owned I only owed a million on it I paid off almost $200,000 in that seven years that's just money in my pocket and if I own a rental property the tenants are basically paying off my mortgage so number three so number one cash flow number two appreciation number three is that loan gets paid down and number four is the tax benefits in other words if I make $100,000 a year as a landlord in cash flow you make $100,000 a year from advertising and from YouTube I keep all my money you're going to lose probably 30% of yours right so in other words I'm naturally just getting wealthier just by holding on to real estate then if I play my cards right and I do the game right which I I do uh I offset if I'm careful and I again you got to do this right so please those listening don't just go and assume this works you got to follow the rules I can offset my active income the money I make from book royalties and from YouTube I can offset that and not pay taxes on that because I own real estate so that's just like the government just it's just like me making money right if you save money you're make money it's the same basically the same thing so that's how you make money in real estate those four ways appreciation cash flow appreciation loan pay down and uh tax benefits so who should not buy a home yeah if you are not good at budgeting and you are not good at dealing with difficult problems uh those two things really what I mean by that is like if you're just bad with money uh it's one thing to get you you're bad with money and so you don't pay your rent and you your landlord yells at you and you end up getting evicted like that sucks it's not the end of the world I mean it's fine but you go and put down 10 20 30 $50,000 on a down payment and then you're bad at managing money and you lose it you lose all that money and you have now like a foreclosure on your record like that's a much worse so if you're not good with money get good with money like pull yourself together be a big boy or big girl and like learn how to have a simple budget like that's obvious uh and then if you can't handle problems like there are people out there who just like like can't handle it when things break uh I mean every day almost I feel like something breaks here or if not broken it's just something needs to be worked on uh continually I mean just I don't know like my pool just wasn't working the other day and I'm like why now that's yeah I got a pool and so I have more things to take care of here but like one day oh yeah my water dispenser in the fridge just not working right now I'm like I don't know why like and like if your person's going to get overwhelmed and anxious and get all this anxiety around like oh I kiss can't handle like the the water is not working in the fridge I hate this don't buy it just call the landlord they'll come fix your problem for you um yeah they'll take care of it now what about people who should not invest in real estate I think everyone should invest in real estate uh I I really you got to be patient I guess that's the thing if you you get the Long Haul uh real estate is a great way in fact I heard Cody Sanchez say this the other day real estate is a great maybe it was on this show I don't know it was like real estate's a great way to uh preserve wealth that's what she said so if you have money you can dump it into real estate is a great way to do that what I disagree with her on is she's like real estate's not a great way to make like make your money I disagree I think you can turn real estate and make a lot of money you could flip houses you could just get the cash flow if you know how to do it right uh so I think either way whether you're somebody who has no money and you want to get wealthier yeah real estate's a great way to do that it really is uh a great way to build income better than almost any job out there it's way more fun than almost any job it's way more enjoyable uh it's it's way less I don't know drudgery like everybody in real estate just actually kind of enjoys it most people but yeah and if you're super rich real estate's a great way to you know keep growing preserve your money yeah what would you say to someone like me where I look at the work of real estate and I think to myself my time is better spent either getting a better guest for the podcast one extra YouTube video a month yep that outweighs anything I can real estate for sure 100% in fact I spend a lot of time talking people out of active real estate but not out of real estate just out of active real estate so yeah I don't think everybody body should go buy a rental property uh I think there's ways to and this is not a just a you know promo for my own company because there's a million guys that do it like me but you can invest with people like me and you can invest in companies you can invest in a reate you can invest in you know different private offerings depending on you know certain legal things but yeah you can still be involved in real estate now should you go put 100% of your money in real estate of course not uh should you own your own house if you're wealthy yeah I I would definitely recommend that uh again you buy a house in fact I would recom when I was younger I used to try to buy the cheapest house possible like that was like cheapest house now I try to buy the most expensive house I can possibly do now there's a reason I I paid you know whatever almost $4 million for this house uh because it's going to be worth a whole lot more you know 10 years down the road but worst case I could rent out the units and I Could Break Even or even make money on this property so uh yeah I think that you can find ways to invest in real estate I I'm not I mean rats are fine rats are pretty similar maybe a little bit outperform the stuff Market over over time depends on what data you look at and who whose reports uh but I like private offerings I mean I invest in a lot of other people's deals uh people invest in my deals and sometimes those go great and sometimes those goes terrible uh but I like having a bit of my net worth a good chunk of it in real estate no matter what what's happened with your business over the last year two years give or take how's it changed uh real estate business like Open Door Capital yeah uh We've slowed down dramatically I mean we bought uh last year we bought $30 million of real estate most of that was Self Storage uh and a little a little bit of mobile home park stuff the year before we were b a lot of multif family we slowed way down on the multif family multif family is fun and I'll get back into it uh and in fact the Market's getting better for multif family prices are coming down but the same thing I said earlier about houses like if interest rates are higher and property values are higher uh it makes just the payment much much higher that's what happened in multif family is just the same thing happened interest rates made all the interest rates taxes Insurance made multif family not really work uh very well so we just went from yeah I think our goal the year before I don't think we quite hit it but our goal was 300 million in real estate purchased and then we did 30 million like that's like a you know Grant Cardone has a 10x rule I did like the 10x slowdown like it's like but who like who cares like that's real estate it's cyclical so when it's when it's good it's great we get in we go hardcore and then when it's not we slow down a lot uh We've shifted a little bit to lending like I I launched a lending company that just does like hard money or dscr loans that's been super profitable and successful uh We've leaned into the operations around mobile home parks cuz we have six thousand mobile home like units around the country uh they're a lot of work to manage they're hard yeah and so we've really leaned into like operations like how do we maximize The Profit versus grow the portfolio so this is It's been a yeah optimizing year yeah all right question for you because I'm a podcaster too I've been wondering this whole episode what is that thing the green bottle oh my go okay magic mind so no joke they sent us these things months ago and they just sent it as like a gift and I've been taking them everywhere with us every single podcast I put them in the backpack because I could take them through uh TSA because it's like the liquid limit but it's uh it just it helps me Focus before a podcast it has like a little caffeine in it not so much that it makes you all like you know jerked out it's like a midday boost it what it is but what I do is I take them with us in my backpack and usually I'll just like I'll have one right before a podcast it helps with mental Clarity Focus I really enjoy it I love it and then they offer to sponsor the podcast so if you guys are interested we do have a link Down Below in the description where you could get a discount so if you guys are interested these things are honestly delicious I love the taste of it and I just yeah it's just it's for mental Clarity Focus little bit of energy and it doesn't get you all like wired out thank for picking up on that I love that I love it I appreciate it but no honestly I really like these and uh and he sneaks them to me like all the time for Jack and he brings extras like hey man take a magic M take a m because I'm usually like the same with a protein bar I'm trying to feed in protein bars and we have like a Unwritten agreement we can kind of trade like magic minds and protein virs so I'm happy they want to sponsor the podcast because I genuinely because I've just been doing these for the last six months that's the best sponsor of any podcast like when you actually love the stuff and use it like it's like a win-win I love it 100% so if you're interested we could send a few really good all right we'll send you some how do you get into real estate if you have no money I'm asking this because I have a lot of friends not that have no money but like don't have a lot of money because people think you need 20% down the average cost for a home now in America is like crazy and on top of that with rates as high as they are it's completely unaffordable for the average person and on top of that how can you do it like fast because there was a guy we were at this networking event last night that you threw and I was talking to this kid not a kid but he was 24 and he had $80 million in real estate he started when he was 19 but obviously the market was completely different 5 years ago like you could go in you could pay but 5% down with rates as low as they were it' be affordable you could make the payment but now I feel like you just need to save up a ton for a big down payment and also have a strong enough income to be able to afford the monthly payment sure yeah so getting into real estate with no money couple a couple strategies first of all uh the idea of an you have heard FHA loan yeah it's 3.5% down payment on a loan as long as you're living in the property for a year and you can do that on a multif family this is my favorite strategy for new people getting into real estate and I've done it multiple times now you buy a duplex or a Triplex or a fourplex either two three or four unit you can do it on a single family house as well and then you live in one unit rent the other ones out so you could buy let's call it a million dollar fourplex and you live in one unit you rent the other three units out and you can probably in today's market Break Even You midterm rental those and now all of a sudden you're making profit you Airbnb them now you're making a ton of profit so that's one way to do it is kind of a combination of the house hacking with those Fringe strategies uh the other way that I get into real estate more from the investing side how' you qualify for alone though yeah I mean a like you FHA is not too hard to qualify for I mean you think you got to have a six 20 credit score give or take now if you're sub 620 credit score or you just don't have the income to justify it um you can bring in a partner into an FHA loan who has the income to justify it say getting a cosigner you can get basically get a cosigner that's a doable way the thing is though if you're borrowing like $970,000 especially with the rates where they're at right now I feel like you'd need to be making like 20K a month yes they can sometimes use though the income from those other units to help you qualify some depends on the lender and like I actually don't know if it's the rule or the lenders interpretation of the rule because some lenders are like yeah we just use that that's what I've heard as well yeah and some lenders are like nope you have to own the property for you have to own be a landlord for two years first before we'll let you do that yeah that's possible uh and so if you can't qualify for that whole amount yeah the cosigner thing can help because now of a sudden they can use it they don't even technically call it a cosigner I I don't think with FHA it's just like one person has to live in the property the others don't that's that's one strategy that could work and honestly a million dollarars for PX is probably I mean that that's like California prices but in most areas in the country you can find that fourplex for trapid you buy yeah you buy a little fixer up or two actually one of my favorite strategies again for a certain type of person it's a FHA loan product called the 203k it allows you to wrap in the repair costs and the purchase price into one lump and you pay just three and a half% of the total so you're basically financing the entire repairs through government money at you know super low amounts so for example let me you have $300,000 property could be a duplex Triplex single family whatever it's $300,000 and it needs 100 Grand of work so now youd have 400,000 it normally you put 20% down on 300 so that's 60 and then you need 100 for repairs now you're at 160 that's a lot of money but instead they take the total amount 3 plus 1 you're at 400,000 take three and a half% of that so what is that like 15 grand give or take and you put the 15 grand down and then they fund the $100,000 needed for the rehab that's a cool program because now why would you do that because that property isn't worth $400,000 if you bought right if you know what you're doing a little bit you analyze it right you don't buy a $400,000 you don't buy a $300,000 house put a 100 Grand into it just to have a $400,000 house that'd be silly just buy the $400,000 house you do it because it's worth five or 600,000 so the reason I love that 203k loan is it's instant big Equity like you get you build in equity right away from the front like right away you got Equity uh and two because you remodeled the house I mean you you put 100 Grand into it you can get much higher rents something I don't think a lot of people realize about landlording is like when you have a nice property most properties aren't nice most rentals are not nice I like I'm a bougie guy I like nice stuff so like if I was a tenant I would pay hundreds and hundreds of dollars more for a house that looks like it was designed by chip and Joanna gains than I would just for a house that is white walls boring like ugly flooring whatever so you made this property nice you're getting an extra $500 in income on each unit let's just say so your your cash flow is up $1,500 a month so maybe it would have been a break even now you're making $1,500 to live for free and you have a couple $100,000 of equity like win win win win win so anyway I love that strategy 203k Alan very very cool uh the other way to do it on the investment side let's say you're like well I don't have a lot of money but I don't really want to buy a house for myself I like being whatever I like not owning a house or I already own one uh the simple answer there is just Partnerships like I mean that's literally how I grew to 13,000 units I didn't do it myself I have 2500 partners and so let's go real simple though I bought a Triplex one time or I found a Triplex I really want this property I knew it was going to cash flow it was super cheap now again this is 15 years ago but back then it was like 50 grand for this for or Triplex I didn't have any money though I was broke I had no job I was just trying to like flip this was like way back when I was like working on that single house that I lost all the money at but I knew the deal was going to work out so I just went to a buddy of mine actually a guy from church he was like the sound guy at church we talked a lot I knew he worked for the county as like an administrator network administrator uh I went to him and I was just telling him about this deal I'm like yeah I just found this really cool Triplex do you know anybody who want to like partner on it like after I explained the deal I never like to ask people directly it's more cuz I don't want to be weird with family and friends or whatever I'm like do you know anybody he's like actually uh we we might be interested what do you need I'm like ah probably just like 40 Grand is really all it would take for the down payment on this thing he's like yeah we can do that so he partnered with me I did the work I found the deal like I managed some contractors I managed the property he put in money that was it I got that deal we every year we would meet together at a little Mexican restaurant this is our routine for a good eight years little Mexican restaurant we'd sit down my wife and me his wife and him sit down we get our food and then we'd write ourselves checks of the profit from the previous year and it was always like five grand each of us would make uh again not crazy money here but just a little tiny like $100,000 Triplex whatever but it was like five grand they would make every year and I'd make five grand every year uh and I put zero dollars into that you can do that with a single family a duplex a 10 unit 100 unit an industrial comp you know a warehouse apartment complex anything there are people in America a lot of them who have a lot of money did you know the stats on how many millionaires are in America I don't OP 10 it's a lot higher than you would think yeah it's way higher than you think uh there's so many people with money I mean I know you pulled your audience recently I've pulled my audience recently we have a lot of people with money that follow us but they don't have time they don't have passion or desire uh to go learn how to do this game but here's the fun thing about real estate real estate is sexy what I mean by that if you PLL we should do this poll actually yeah if you pulled 10,000 Americans and said do you think real estate investing is a good idea someday for you like do you want to someday invest in real estate what percentage you're going to say yes 99% everybody knows real estate's fun and cool and a good way to make money most people just don't think they can do it but Everyone likes the idea of it there's just something American about real estate investing so anyway you get now you're the expert you know what you're doing you find the deals you're just good at this because you listen to the podcast and read the books and all that that there are way more people out there that are rich with no time that would work with you than there are like people to do what you are the bar is very low for finding deals nobody nobody wants to work lots of people have money what's happening with interest rates when are they going to come down I don't think they are I think interest rates are there uh when you look at the last you know whatever 40 Years of American interest rates we are right dead center even where they should be uh now the government's going to I mean the government doesn't necessarily move interest rates but rates are moved uh and the government kind of controls it based on what they want the economy to do or not do so everything I'm about to say you know with a grain of salt take that but interest rates are way they are because that's generally where they've been we've just been spoiled like little kids the last you know 10 years where it's like 3% like what's your lowest interest rate you ever got you know 2.8 yes I had a 2.9 I'm like that is that that's stupid like that's not I don't think we're ever going to see it again and I think we should take that approach that we will never see that again ever if it happens Hallelujah but I don't think we'll ever see it again I think we'll see I mean where we at right now like six and a half call it for a house seven depends on who you go to right uh it went down me it went obviously went way up to eight went back down to about six now we're sitting at maybe seven that's that's I think the next 10 years is five six seven 8 5 six S8 fluctuating in there and how do you see that impacting the market though in the short term yeah I mean people are not moving as much right now they're not buying as much and that's fine but it's a relative thing we get people used to we I mean it happened already when people were used to eight and rates dropped to six and a half a bunch of people refinanced and moved and transaction happened we went back up again a little bit people slowed down and again that's the that's what happens and so like now if we don't get to two again like I don't think anybody expects to get the two again so when rates drop we'll get an influx of the market so they're still controlling the market uh the government is somewhat trying to control the market real estate and they're trying to balance that with every other part of the market and it more or less seems to be working uh I mean they're they're kind of doing it yeah does it suck right now for a lot of aspects of real estate sure it's a hard time to invest right now uh but are there ways to make it work sure it's kind of like dollar cost averaging too like if it's hard right now sure uh but we can we can still invest in real estate now and then when things get better like great we're going to buy more real estate and then if things go down that's okay I'm just going to find ways to make it work now and then when it goes back up so we'll just play that game yeah this is something that Jack mentioned to me last night we found very interesting we were at this event that you hosted called like the top what is it the 50 50 50 people pay $50,000 a year and you're surrounded by people who have $100 million plus real estate there's some ridiculous people there Jack said that you pointed out this person's going to be a billionaire that one's going to be a billionaire what qualities do you look for and how do you know yeah good question uh one I think there's this this like probably maybe most importantly is they just it's it's not a hope it's just like they just like they know they're going to be a billionaire right like they just it's just like that's not a weird thing they're just like yeah of course I am like when you when you look especially age and like time like the kid you were talking to kid again yeah we're all we're all old we're all old men talking about these 24y old kids uh yeah but aric who's coming to on podcast actually we're filming him in like three hours from now like I'm like he's 24 like like is he in already $80 million of real estate like as long as he doesn't drastically wreck something or the market doesn't completely tank given a 30 or 40e span he definitely is going to get there uh but the same with some of the guys that if their net worth is $200 million right now I mean there's guys in the group that have a million dollar net worth and they're pretty relaxed and they're like yeah I just like to buy a few more properties every year and yeah I'm not going to say they're going to be a billionaire but the guy that's at 150 million net worth he owns 5,000 houses and he's like aggressive and he knows like yeah I'm I'm gonna keep growing this thing I I love it how is he not like how is he not going to be a billionaire yeah just like a decent number I used to actually I used to think I was going to be a billionaire I've changed though the past year I like a year ago if You' ask me I'd like yeah I'm I should be a billionaire like just based on the next 30 years of growth of my portfolio if I just keep doing what I'm doing uh with Open Door Capital with the properties with raising whatever yeah I'll be a billionaire and that's fine what's changed is my motivation like you know I had another kid just a few weeks ago uh and so I've got three now and I'm really enjoying that and I'm like I I don't think I'm going to I don't think I'm going to do for the next 30 Years what I've done for the past 10 I think I'm going to slow down dramatically and that's okay i' I've come to a place where I'm like well I don't need a billion dollars if I wanted it I'm sure I could probably fight for it and have a pretty decent chance so yeah so you see it in some people they have the they have the ability to because they have a business mind and they've got a a strategy to get there uh this is going to sound silly but it's not that hard to make this is going to sound really silly it's not that hard to make a billion dollars when you're investing in real estate because if you buy I mean if you buy $2 billion of real estate and again people are like that's ridiculous but you can do it Partners bringing people raise money when you're talking hundred million do apartment complexes it's not that many of them so you buy a couple billion dollars of real estate and then over a time period five 10 15 years that goes from two billion to four billion okay you just made $2 billion do yeah you had Partners okay so they get a bunch of the money so they might get half that and you get the other billion that's just how billionaires are made in real estate it's not a super complex thing and the the process of buying a $100 million apartment complex is really not that different and in fact I would argue with easier than buying a $100,000 house in a lot of ways because you have people you have teams I mean yes L comptition less competition yeah and there's just it's just so much more systematized and and and less drama and so like if you can buy a a million dollar house or a million-dollar apartment you can buy a 10 million or 50 or 100 there's little Nuance differences but that's why I say it's not hard to be a billionaire in real estate if you really wanted it and if you're willing to scale and you have that vision for getting there uh shoot yeah it's not that hard how was the guy able to get 8 8 million of real estate at 24 years old do yeah goes into my episode when it comes out no uh he here's his strategy and this this could work uh and I feel like he should tell his storyit more better than I can but I just tell a bit of it is he utilizes a combination of seller financing which is where the owner of the property will carry the mortgage right so imagine first if this is confusing imagine Jack you have a car what do you drive uh a Tesla Mod y nice okay you got model y what's that thing worth okay what you what's it what what what price did you pay and what it's what it's worth yeah uh top of the market I purchased for 58 all in and it's probably worth uh 30 okay that's fine do you do you ow anything on it uh no okay so you own it free and clear 30 $30,000 is probably what it's worth I want to buy that car from you but I don't have 30 grand so can I just can I have the car and I'm going to make payments to you is that cool just say yes yeah okay so I'm going to I'm going to pay you what's the monthly what's good monthly payment for that do you think uh I want $500 per month perfect I'm going to pay you $500 a month for the next X number of years I don't know how many years that is now you are I'm going to own the car like I'm it's going to be my car the it's mine but you are going to have a lean on it in other words if I don't pay you back you can go and repossess my car that's I mean that's done all the time right when you buy a car from a dealership it's your car technically but the dealer or the Finance here whoever ended up with the loan they have a they have that lean they can just go in for close or not for clo they can repo it from you real estate exactly the same way and so I you have a house worth $30,000 I want your house and so obviously just trying to keep the math the same I'm going to pay you $500 a month for your $30,000 house for the next X number of years and you get the monthly payment the seller financing is fascinating it's a great Model A lot of investors my buddy Gabe uh Gabe Hamill he's uh built his entire portfolio millions and millions of dollars uh he's built it just off seller financing that's all pretty much all he's ever done now why would a seller do that like why why would you do that because you want $500 a month like yeah you could you could sell me your car for 30 grand I could give you 30 grand well now what you got to pay taxes on it so you're going to lose 10 grand just in taxes on that thing so now you only get left with 20 and you're you're an old guy what are you going to do with 20 grand stick in the stock market oh that makes you nervous because like what if that goes down that's my retirement but I like $500 a month and I I know the car it's a nice car I can take get back if I needed to so that's why guys do seller financing I've done seller financing for people how does taxes work on that because you mentioned the tax thing that if you get the 30,000 front you're going to pay tax on it how does that work in real estate are you only taxed on the monthly payment yeah pretty much I mean the simplistic version of it but yeah so when you do seller financing you only pay taxes on the money you're receiving you don't pay it on the entire amount so again let's say I wanted to buy a million-- dollar property from somebody in fact my very first apartment complex I bought a 24 unit apartment complex when I was 24 years old and the owner uh they they didn't want it was like four let's call 500,000 roughly 500k for this 24 unit they didn't they didn't want to own anymore they were well they wanted to travel they were mid 70s they had an RV they wanted to go travel and see their grandkids around the country but they were relying on that income because they were running the company they they I mean they were running the the day-to-day operations but they didn't want to run the day-to-day operations so instead they sold it to me I paid them every single month and they just wouldn't traveled around and so they just paid taxes every year on whatever they received in that year uh and again it's pretty low tax rate because you're just basically getting interest I think it's just interest money at that point um yeah pretty uh pretty cool strategy so when guys like get a lot of real estate for no money down what a lot of times what they're doing is they're doing a combination of some seller financing like U they might get the seller to carry a whatever million dollar second mortgage and then they go to a bank and they get the First Mortgage for a $4 million one so they have 4 million from the bank they have a million from the seller and there's the 5 million needed to buy this property let's say does that make sense so that's one strategy that a lot of a lot of people utilize to get big real estate deals for really no money out of pocket where do you go to find good deals because everything that I see let's call it the MLS everyone else has access to it it's not really the the the cream of the crop let's just say so where do you go yeah so the couple there's aund strategies we could talk about I'll take give you through my favorite I still still love what they call it driving for dollars it's lit almost no money you can do it uh most people can do it if they got a little bit of free time get in your car go to the neighborhood you want to buy a property and just drive around and what you're looking for is just properties that look like they have a problem like there might be something wrong in fact I I like walking for dollars in my neighborhood like up here and I just when you're walking and you're looking for those you see them everywhere like you're you guys are going to start seeing this stuff like like you see a mailbox that's just stuffed full and you're like oh interesting they haven't checked their mail in weeks I wonder what's going on there or the lawn is you know 8 in high they haven't mowed their lawn in a long time or like there's not a single item outside their house nothing it's just completely empty they don't have a I mean nothing there's no bird feeder sitting there there's nothing blinds are all closed it's probably vacant so what you're looking for is problem properties and then you just it's all public data you figure out where's the tax bill going for the person who owns that house so you can write this down there's an app out there I have no affiliation with them but they're called uh uh deal deal oh shoot deal machine yeah deal machine uh I've used them before it's great but literally let you do all this on an app yeah you just like okay that address that one that one looks interesting that one looks interesting and then you get the owner's address where the mail the tax bill is going to so if it's not that same place which usually it's not now you know where it's going and you can what they call Skip Trace you can find their phone number call them up hey I was just walking by that house over on Third Street I saw it looked it looked vacant uh just a you know Young new real estate guy looking to buy a property and I just thought I'd reach out hey any chance you want to sell and so the short answer like that's one strategy driving for dollars the the more meta or more like highlevel discussion is real estate investing like for good deals is a funnel like if you think about like funnels in business right like hey you're you're I don't know whatever like your car dealership and you have a thousand people drive by every hour and out of those thousand uh 10 people stop by and come inside so it's like 0.1% and out of those 10 people two of them test drive a car and one of them takes the car home and drives that's just a very simple sales funnel we do it in every aspect of business that's all finding good deals is I have a thousand uh properties on my like list here of properties that I I think I might want to buy I'm going to contact them and I'm going to get a hold of a third of them and out of the third I'm going to get a hold of maybe 10% of them are going to have an interest in selling out of them maybe half of them will actually you know whatever agree to sell and so I might have a thousand possibilities and then I buy one of those homes it's just a and so the people who do a lot of real estate I mean I got I mean we buy a lot of real estate but they're big deals I got buddies like my buddy cam cathart he'll buy 10 houses in a month like how do you buy 10 houses in a month it's because they are talking to thousands of or you know hundreds or even thousands of people and it's just a funnel they're never surprised like the best Real Estate Investors all the people I interview all the people that were at the 50 last night like nobody's surprised when they get deals because it's just a funnel nobody's surprised they have a six-pack like it's not like you look down you're like oh shoot Sho where did this come from like whoa It's like I'd be shocked if I didn't you know well I don't have a sixpack but if I did the work for a sixpack I just have a gym in my background to make it look cool uh but if like if I did the work for years and years I'd be shocked not to have one if I sent out another strategy if I sent out 10,000 mailers to people who own let's just say for example you own real estate but you don't live in that property that's public data we can pull that list real easy using a site like propstream that's a website do 10,000 I sent out 10,000 letters to 10,000 people that own a house but they don't live in the house well what does that mean if they own a house and don't live in it it's probably rental okay well or or it's just vacant either way would somebody who owns a property that's vacant or rental would they consider an offer on their property good chance like maybe right like I'm a landlord if somebody wants to buy my property the answer is not no it's how much right like I'm like well let's talk all right so you send out 10,000 letters now you might get let's call it 1% like of those people are going to call you back out of 10,000 letters so is that what 100 am I doing my math right m so like uh okay you get a hundred phone calls out of them someone are going to be like screw you take me off your list I hate you you know like you get those and then okay fine and then 50 of them though maybe want to sell you have a conversation and most of them are just like you know you give them a lowball offer whatever the number that makes sense for you and they're like no scure you but every once in a while then out of maybe 10,000 letters that cost you $10,000 to mail those out you get two deals out of that and out of those two deals maybe one you flip and you make $80,000 on a flip flip and one of them you holds a rental that makes you 500 bucks a month in cash flow that's how you get deals it's coming up there's a lot of strategies like a lot of different little things like driving around mailers TV commercials uh a sign on the side of your car all that stuff works uh radio ads can work really really well right now all that strategy is just designed to get them in the funnel and it's your ability to optimize a funnel that determines how successful you are when it comes to getting good deals how do you negotiate the price down although really quick before we go into that let's talk about rent for a second because isn't it crazy that one of your biggest monthly recurring expenses just goes out the door you get nothing in return no rewards no perks no nothing well all of that changes today with their sponsor built rewards for those una aware built is a program that lets you earn points just for paying your rent that's right every month you could pay your rent like you normally do except now you'll actually get something back in return there is absolutely zero cost to join as a member you'll earn valuable points on rent and even your everyday spending these points can then be transferred to over 500 Airlines and 700,000 hotels and properties worldwide you can also redeem points towards future 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conversions by up to 50% and if you're into growing your business your Commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling whether that's on the web in their feed at a storefront or anywhere in between all in all nobody's selling better than Shopify so if you want to upgrade your business get started today with a $1 trial period when you go to shopify.com all lowercase thank you so much Shopify for sponsoring this episode and now let's get back to the podcast how do you negotiate the price down like do you have any strategies my favorite yeah my favorite strategy is simply to give people multiple options like Starbucks offers a tall uh Grande and a ventti right just so you don't compare it to 711s you know dollar coffee so you can pay four five or 12 and you're like H I'll pay I'll pay the five five sounds good right and you're not like wait that coffee over there is a dollar that's so I love that same strategy especially with properties that aren't like if a property's got multiple offers and like they've already like they you're competing that's not going to work but if I'm talking to a seller I just give them a couple options hey here's a few things I could do I could pay here's an example I could pay you know $300,000 for your house and uh just as is I can close like next week like all cash we'll get it done or I can pay 320 but for that extra $20,000 I would like you to do whatever I want you to include all the furniture in the house I want you to keep there and it's going to take me another month to close so then the seller like oh which one do I want which one do I want they're going back and forth which one do I want which one I don't care which one they it literally doesn't matter I gave them like two scenarios that I'd be happy with either way and they're trying to figure out which one they want they're not thinking yes no they're thinking which one that's my favorite negotiation strategy it works really well people do it on me now like I have friends that will negotiate with me on stuff whether it's a real estate deal they want to buy for me and they do that I'm like I know what you're doing I taught you that like that's funny yeah but it works yeah where do you think the best opportunity is right now is it in commercial like some sort of like Flex industrial or I don't know residential real estate high density self storage self storage trailer parks we were talking or mobile home mobile home parks uh we were talking yesterday or two days ago and you were saying that there was a lot of issues with commercial recently but that also means that there's a lot of opportunity for sure where do you think the best opportunity is yeah the best strategy is the I'll say The Meta answer first like the best strategy the one that fires you up the most and works on the location you're buying that's it like like like they all work I can find I mean last night at that dinner right we had like roughly 50 people there doing things almost nobody in that group does the same thing it was actually pretty wild like the differences like there's a campground guy and there's a you know mobile home park guy and A Self Storage guy all these things right uh that's that so they all work it there is no best it's like what's the best diet I don't know I like carnivore stuff that's fun keto's cool like it it all works I can find Fitness influencers that swear by everyone and have science to back it up right like every Fitness influencer has science data that backs up why theirs is the only one that works and everything else sucks yet that that mean doesn't make sense but they all have it same is true for Real Estate so there is no best I'll tell you my favorites right now though I love the concept of the rent by the room stuff if you're willing to go through the hard I really like industrial Warehouse right now if you have the money and the uh knowledge to be able to pull that off like buying a big Warehouse uh and renting it out to like a not even necessar Amazon I'm just like let's say you have a seven different Warehouse like seven Bay Warehouse you s rented out to seven different companies in your area plumbing company a trucking company I love that stuff right now uh super scalable uh I really like uh assisted living like I mentioned residential Assisted Living um I like house flipping right now like I think it's a good Market to flip houses not the best market we've ever seen to flip houses but people are still buying nice houses right now uh if you can if you can handle the finances of flipping I like flipping right now so it again those are those are all good strategies if I had to just pick one for let's say you I don't know why I'm just hypothetically if I had to pick one for you I would say you should go Jack into residential Assisted Living it'll take you a year to buy your first one it'll take you a year to learn it it's going to be hard you got to get a license for something you got to figure out how to get some staffing to run it but you do it right one year from now you'll buy your first one and you'll make 15 grand a month in profit and you're done like you're like financially free I mean you're probably already fan fore but you're like that hypothe you're there right you buy one more year you buy another one now you're making 30 grand now you're going to have to hire some more a little bit more higher level staff at that time and then you buy a third one like that for the amount of work I'd probably do Residential Assisted Living you know that yesterday we were out in the water on the boat right we saw the whales in the distance yeah so I like to go paddle boarding with the whales like I love that going out there and if you want to get like a close encounter to a whale we were doing on the boat yesterday maybe didn't notice you don't you don't paddle or you don't boat to where the whale is when you see it on the horizon you go in front of it right you can see the direction the whale is moving and you just want to get somewhere in front of it because the whale is then gonna come up to you like you're not going to it it comes to you the reason I bring that up is when I look at American Real Estate like where's the whale headed like where's America Society headed as a real estate investor if I want to get wealthy and ensure that things are going to go well I want to get in front of the whale I want to get in front of the economy where is our economy moving let me start working in that sector right now so that when it catches up I'm going to make a lot of money assisted living there are so many old people in America right now and we're not building affordable housing for them so what are we going to do with them all later on like we're in 10 years from now it's going to be a massive problem in America okay so assisted living is getting in front of the whale you get good at it now you're going to make it killing adus like we talked about that's a whale that's coming it's a ma affordable housing in America is maybe the biggest whale right now like America does not know what they're going to do so get in front of it Section 8 like that's the whole program the government pays rent they're going to have to Brad in that okay get good at that right now cuz that's where the whales headed uh luxury multif family I don't want to touch that like real high-end a class luxury multif family maybe longterm it'll be fine but we've got a lot of that right now and we got a lot of people that don't want it so I'm not going to get in front of that whale What markets do you like to buy in like what locations uh anything but no okay I'm gonna say five states that I really I do not buy in okay because they're hard I have chosen that's not my hard you got to pick a hard I like I like certain things that are hard like I buy mobile home parks that are half empty and I try to fill them up it's the hardest thing ever but that's my heart I just picked it uh politically though there are five states I don't want to buy in because I don't like that hard you can probably guess what they are with California Oregon Washington New York and Michigan I don't like those and probably not Illinois if I wanted to add a six1 on there now what's what's similar about all those States they're all just really left leaning States now it's not a political thing you know Seattle had a rule or a legislation going through a little while ago it didn't pass for obvious reasons I about to say but they wanted to make it so so if you were a landlord the tenant will get equity and ownership in your property no yeah they wanted to give tenants ownership and Equity because they they deserve it because they're living there housing's a right and so if you are a tenant you get to own your landlord's property and the longer you live there the more yeah that's ridiculous that would ruin tenants it would just ruin everybody like as a tenant like hey we need $800,000 for a new roof so uh hey Miss Johnson I know you're just working at the grocery store but we're going to need you to cop up 40 grand out of your share like it would never work right like this is silly that but it doesn't matter it doesn't stop liberal governments from just being silly and that stuff starts passing sometimes silly things start passing uh and there's a lot of just legislation that doesn't help me as a landlord in those five or six states so uh has nothing to do with the politics of it like some people I'm sure maybe it actually helps people good doesn't help me and so therefore I'm going to avoid those States wow what about locations you really like if you were to pick maybe like the top three states yeah I like Florida a lot a lot of people moving there I like Arizona a lot a lot of people moving there I like Nevada a lot a lot of people moving there again all generally conservative States not crazy uh property taxes aren't insane I I like Texas but property taxes are just too crazy uh can you make it work yeah that's just not a hard I want to face uh and I own I mean I own hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate in Texas I'm just like I really am getting tired of the property tax problem so now what about buying for cash flow versus appreciation yeah uh that's why I don't believe you should I don't believe you should choose I mean again there are nuances here but I don't think I think you buy real estate in areas that will appreciate and you use strategies at cash flow today so for example if I can't cash flow in Vegas but I believe in Vegas appreciation which I do I think Vegas has a lot of things going for it so I'm just going to buy in Vegas but I'm going to utilize one of those strategies that that will allow me to get cash flow today so I might go to Vegas and find a duplex that would break even but I'm going to again maybe it's a midterm rental on each side midterm rentals aren't governed by the short-term rental laws and so I can I can get higher rent without having to do uh the violate short-term rental laws now I get cash flow and I get appreciation so I don't think you should settle for one or the other that makes sense how do you be a good landlord what are your what are your tricks you take care I mean take care of people like that sounds so like cheesy but majority of landlords just don't care about their tenants in any way shape or form they they just don't care and they don't care in in two interesting ways uh sometimes they just are way too like mean and harsh and I'm not going to fix up anything on your property and I'm not going to do that which is really bad for the landlord because their property falls apart they get worse tenants there's no like retention so like if you're a jerk to your tenant you don't treat them right you don't fix things when they're broken you're going have our time the opposite side though of being a bad landlord is being too kind and nice I should say nice not kind you're too nice to your tenant an example is like hey I know Miss Johnson that you you know you're it's been a hard year and but you're 5 days later in your rent but you know what it's okay don't worry about it uh just get it in when you can now that's a really nice thing to do and she's like oh thank you so much okay next month Miss Johnson's like hey you know I'm a little little bit behind I had some problems go on with whatever uh I I I got to pay rent a week late okay that's fine Miss Johnson hey you're you're doing well next month it's a couple weeks late next month it's a month late next month it's two months late and now you've got a problem as a landlord so what do you do you evict Miss Johnson she can't catch up you got to evict her so whose fault is that the landlord's fault because you were you were trying to be nice instead of like firm I guess I'm not saying you go be like hey you're late on your rent and uh I'm going to evict you today but he's just like hey Miss Johnson like the rent is due on the 1 I need it on the first my mortgage payment comes out on the third it's got to be in so there's going to be a fine I I hate to do that and if you want to wave it the first time wave it the first time you want to be a nice guy but we've got to Institute rules that is being a good landlord because it actually helps Miss Johnson and it helps you uh so yeah be good to your tenants is like the key to being a good land yeah for me I always struggled with that because I fell on the camp of usually being too nice generous and for a while I think Looking Back Now I do have regrets about doing this but I would never raise the rent if a tenant always paid on time never any issues took care of the places around I really hated raising the rent because my thought was that I'd rather earn a little less and just keep them there 10 plus years I would love that it's less turnover for me they get to save some money everyone wins 2020 my expenses went through the roof and I had several places in Los Angeles that were rent controlled I couldn't raise the rent on them and when I was able to raise the rent four years later my expenses have ballooned to such a point where even if I maximized that rent increase which I which I did uh I think it only came to about 4% in a year but I hadn't raised the rent in the like the six years prior to that so now I'm raising 4% but my insurance is up 50% my property taxes went up everything went up so much to the point where now I look back and I think I should have been raising the rent and maybe just given some like hey I'm going to raise the rent but I'm going to give you 15 days free yeah um and that way it balances there's other ways to be kind and to give give back but and here's the other side of that is let's say you don't raise rent for five years you sell the property yes you're way below rent what is the new buyer going to do they're going to jack up the rent 2,000 bucks on Miss Johnson now she definitely can't afford it because she's not used to that where if you would have raised it along the way to a normal inflationary rate and not been AG gouging them but you're just being good and you're just raising it the way that you yeah that we wouldn't have a problem she'd be able to afford it because she'd been used to that that long time or she would have found somewhere else along the way uh on her terms and not just massive rent raises yeah so I think in hindsight I should have raised the rent more good to hear you said it lesson learned yeah I hear with rent control what a lot of like Mom and Pop landlords suffer the same thing that you experienced was rent control trying to kind of mandates you to or it commands you to increase the rent maximally every single year you don't you're just screwed Y and you screw over the ten as well yeah in fact that's one when people are ask me like are you worried about rent control I'm like not really like Grant Cardone has a great viral video I don't know who show he was on but he said like yeah if they mandate rent control I'm going to be worth like5 billion dollar more in the future it's because like every like if they mandate 4% a year he's only underwriting and same with us like we're underwriting 3% 2% growth maybe like if they mandate 4% or they allow like that's what we're going to raise it to so all of a sudden rent's going to go up higher so who does that benefit benefits of the landlord so long term rent control doesn't hurt me it's just it's going to longterm again help the people at the top like it's not a system I like it's just a system that exists and so I can either like I can I can work in it or I can just get angry about it and post on social media how dumb it is which people will below this video but it's like that is what it is what are your thoughts about section8 investing in those yeah yeah yeah I love investing in section eight I think that section 8 which is called something else now but we all still call it Section 8 section 8 is where the government pays part or all of the tenants rent it is a really good program to get into because it's it's really hard to get into uh because it there's so many people who want it so once you're on it you don't want to screw that up like you've been waiting eight years to get Section 8 and finally you get on it so you're going to do everything in your power not to screw it up uh so I like Section 8 because it makes people better tenants a lot of times you still have to screen your tenant a lot of landlords make the mistake of going well the government's paying for their rent so it's going to be great so they just let in anybody now make sure they're still a good person they haven't got evictions on their record uh they've you know they've done a a decent job of being a human being over the last few years and then Section 8 can be great again I think the US government is going to have to widely expand I mean maybe 10x or 100x that section 8 program I think it's just a a trial right now for what's coming in the future yeah so get get it get in now and yeah my only experience with Section 8 was not a pleasant one to be honest yeah I mean obviously the rank gets paid every single month on time that was a benefit but the inspections sometimes the tenant would go in and the Tenant was really dirty yeah or would break something and Section 8 would come in and say landlord you have to replace this and I'm going to replace it and then it's going to break again or the tenant's not going to take care of it and then I got to replace it again yes I even had a situation where I was remodeling uh the unit next door to the Section 8 tenant and there was some paint chips that were on the exterior because I was in the middle of painting and Section 8 says we're not paying the rent until you clean up all of these paint chips because it's a hazard for children as if there are no children around here you know this person is is not a child by any means well this is our policy and you have to abide by there there's so many little things like that where I really didn't like the level of scrutiny that they went through the property and just silly fixes that I felt the tenant should be paying for that I I shouldn't but they mandate the landlord take care of it yeah I haven't had as much of that I mean we have a lot of section tenant I haven't had as much of that I think some of that's probably California right like again why I don't like to invest in California uh I think California just has a I don't know you guys got a weird vibe down there I know why you left uh but some of that too keeps landlords because it's needed for a reason because it wouldn't exist if you didn't have a bunch of bad landlords out there just trying to take advantage of the system so they put that in there and maybe it's a little overboard but it keeps you really maintaining a good enough property so it's one of those yeah I'll get I'll I'll survive with it but yeah I like section I like the pram here's an interesting factoid about Section 8 section 8 pays higher amounts and this is one of those like how do we get a it's a fringe strategy one of like my 20 Fringe strategies that I talk about uh Section 8 pays more based on bedroom count yes right unlike it's it like a and it's drastic a lot of times because a lot of Section 8 people have a lot of kids it's pretty common to be on Section 8 because you have a lot of kids you maybe don't have as much time for working and so you'd have less money so there are not a lot of landlords who have a six-bedroom house out there so supply and demand section 's like oh we need more six-bedroom houses because we got all these people with five kids let's offer more money for a six bedroom so you might see something like and you can literally Google this like look up like what section it is in your county but it might be $2,000 a month for a two-bedroom 2500 for a three-bedroom 2,800 for a four bedroom 32 for a five bedroom 55 for a six bedroom 85 for a 7 bed you like it can in some areas based on their needs drastically increase so I got some a buddy uh out in Washington DC does this he'll buy a house you similarly I said adding bedrooms he'll add like eight bedrooms to he'll have eight bedrooms in a house he'll remodel the basement put really nice bedrooms and then he goes over the top to make it a nice property like really nice but then he's getting just ridiculously high rent uh rents from the government and the person moving in is like this is the nicest house I've ever seen like he screens them well and it's a beautiful house beautiful property they are never going to be a problem because they never want to lose that so the government's paying $8,500 a month some areas yeah and every County depends on like the what the average is in the area uh and then it's bedroom count but in some areas it can be I mean I've seen over 10 grand uh in some areas for certain size houses and then after disasters I mean like this is in Section 8 but they're paying 25 Grand a month for houses in Maui after the fires like it's just like yeah it's supply and demand that's incredible yeah what are purchases that you think every person should make doesn't have to be real estate related just in general oh that's a great question man uh I think everyone needs a ninja creamy we talked about that Jack yesterday it's a ninja oh this is like a commercial for Ninja creamy I'm the best sales guy for Ninja creamy I have no stock in that company but I should uh Ninja is a brand of like uh blenders and stuff right yeah you you can buy ninja cream at Costco but you put you get this little you make a liquid of some kind in in different recipes freeze it overnight blend it not blend it whatever you want to call it mix it the next day and it makes the best consistency ice cream ever so here's the secret you put in the fair life chocolate milk from Costco 150 calories with 30 gram of protein a scoop of whey protein powder uh and then uh a little bit of salt a little bit of uh like non if you're not if you're like trying to keep it healthy like what do you call it monk fruit like sweetener and freeze it overnight next day make it it is the greatest tasting ice cream with like 50 grams of protein less than 30 less than 300 calories everybody needs to own an ninja creamy it's the best JJ was ranting and and I wanted to buy one the only problem is I felt like I had to try it out for myself we have time on social media and just like singing its prayers yeah that that I want to tr it's so good holy crap yeah it's so it takes five minutes to make or four minutes to make a a dish of ice cream and there's a there's a lot of recipes and Tik you can go on the Tik Tok like get on the algorithm and that's all you'll see as ninja creamy recipes anyway everyone should have a ninja creamy I think everyone should have a goal Journal like a habit tracking Journal where they track their daily habits I think we talked about this on the show last time is every morning just track your habits that you care most about it's like the ultimate life hack like you just track the stuff you want to do because at the end of the day you get the results of what you repeatedly do if you want a six-pack there's something that you repeatedly do to get you that if you want a better marriage there are things you can do that will get you that if you want to be a better dad you want more money you want to save more money whatever it is there's just things we do and nobody tracks that stuff if you want to completely change your life alter it forever just start tracking your habits now the other thing we're curious about um is your business inefficient because we talking to some of your team and a lot of people say that there's a lot of like almost a chain of command that they have to get through to get to you and a lot of times things fizzle out on the way but they don't get all the way up and they just kind of lose steam explain for those people listening right now that may not be familiar like how many businesses do you operate you're throwing out x capital and X this and this I have like roughly call it seven or eight businesses so if you have I have a loan company called better life ref I've got the open door capital I've got the better life tribe which is about a thousand it's a membership thousand Real Estate Investors all that goes to charity I've got the media company and I've got this thing called first deal it's like first deal get your first deal uh and then a couple other small random things uh yeah there's definitely a hierarchy you could call it or organizational chart you could say uh it's because and ultimately like yeah I had a friend the other day say this he said hey Brandon some people buy real estate and some people build businesses that buy real estate right so you could say some people some people do the thing and some people build businesses around the thing I am trying to build businesses around the thing not do the thing if that it's a subtle difference right like some people podcast and some people build podcasting businesses the end result is probably the same the the difference is you know the the corporatization and I hate corporate like corporate stuff I hate the it's Hawaiian insur Friday and get your TPS report in and all that but when you're trying to run seven eight businesses at one time especially with one face like where I'm the head of of all of them I'm the face I have to have layers I have to have operational efficiency inside of those and sometimes that is inefficient like trying to get a video made like somebody my mortgage company needs a video made for social media okay that has to go through several different people and that is inefficient that's annoying I can't be as Nimble it's like moving the Titanic it's just harder uh however that's the really the only way to have 100 I don't call 150 employees I think that work for me right now spread out it kind of to be that way but it's also what allows me to grow you know millions and millions and millions of dollars every year in Revenue uh and be able to handle that do you think any of it's worth scaling back I think we were talking to your social media team it's it's way bigger than what we expected it's bigger than our social media team and I feel like I don't putting out a good amount of content yeah yeah no definitely bigger than your I mean yeah definitely bigger than yours uh and some of that is operational inefficiencies um probably I would argue that you guys this may come across sounding bad even to my team I don't mean that but you guys are probably the equivalent of 10 people that would work for you right in other words you could probably hire each 10 people to do the equivalent of what you guys know and can do I don't do anything I mean like I show up and it's the button record button already there pretty much right and so for that I have to have I think more people if I got involved because I'm good at if I was good at it like you guys are yeah I just think yeah you're the equivalent of 10 people is it worth scaling back 100% I have too many companies I know that I would be more effective by far if I scaled back that's just a hard thing once they're already running they're all profitable it's like that lie it's like I can do it all I can do it all but you can never do it all and so yeah we are constantly pruning uh there's a great book by Mike mallwitz called The Pumpkin plan uh which basically says whether it's different businesses or divisions within your business you're the way to grow a massive pumpkin is by starting with a lot of them and then trimming all the ones that are not good enough until you're left with one and then you pour all your energy into one so right now I've got a lot of pumpkins and uh trimming is a good idea now in terms of money have you found that money can buy happiness oh yeah 100% uh I think money can buy happiness but I think that money can also buy misery uh money can buy anything I mean it can and what I mean by there's a pat answer money buys experiences or money buys stuff that can make you happy sure uh money can buy stuff that makes you unhappy uh so I'm not saying money always buys happiness but if you have money you can do things that make you happier so that's why yes of course uh I think I think money is dangerous like I think I mean I'm I'm a Christian guy I'm a Bible you know believing Christian guy I was even a youth pastor for a while and the Bible talks a lot about wealth being dangerous like bad and and Christians especially don't like to talk about that very much like it's it's way more fun to talk about prosperity and how great like when you have money you can give away a lot but Jesus himself warns about money more than he does about almost anything else and so so I look at money in a very similar light to alcohol actually alcohol can make you have a fun time like if you drink alcohol and you're around a bunch of people you can have a good time it'll loosen you up a little bit great is it dangerous a th% does that mean we should never drink maybe for some for sure a lot of people shouldn't drink does that mean I'm never going to drink again not necessarily but I have to be very cognizant of the dangers of money and the dangers of alcohol you know they say money reveals who you are Maybe I think it does but I think money can also just take anybody and make them worse if that makes sense yeah you just start if you're not careful if you're not careful about money so what what are like the best practices then if you're if you're getting more money at a faster rate or you're growing in wealth like what are the things that like is it staying grounded is it like having friends that are not wealthy is it like yeah giving away money I think it's all of that uh I think it's acknowledging the dangers of money I think is step one just saying like money can be bad for people it can be bad for me uh it can make me a more greedy person if I'm not careful it can make me believe that money is a thing that my happiness is found in or that my validation my my self-worth is in my money and if I lose my money so yeah things like giving away a good chunk of money I think is a good way to then release that hold of money on you uh like you can't serve I think that's the famous line in the Bible you can't serve both God and money and so you have to stop serving money period if you want to what does that mean it means it can't control control you uh and so by giving it away you're saying hey this doesn't control me I can always make more back so I like making money it's a tremendous amount of fun to build wealth and make money and help other people make money because money solves a lot of problems like I love not being like worried about how I'm going to pay the bills that's really nice uh I love being able to give away millions of dollars to help people that don't have that ability and I think I think again from a spiritual side I think that God has given certain people the ability to make money that's not so we can buy a bigger jet like I think maybe a jet will come someday but that's not why he made me good at making money it's not why he made you guys good at making money I think he made you good at making money for another purpose so spending your life trying to figure out what that purpose is uh I think is a really good way to live your life and what about for the people who sell their companies or they come into a lot of money and immediately they get depressed yeah they're miserable almost all of them are miserable uh and I think a lot of that actually because their validation uh their internal self-worth is in their career and they lose their career it's gone and so like that it could happened with me when I left Bigger Pockets like that was my that was I was known as the Bigger Pockets guy everyone knew me as a Bigger Pockets guy and all of a sudden it was gone uh because I just left uh but it didn't bother me because I had another thing my first of all my self my identity wasn't in Bigger Pockets it was in I mean a number of things but one of them was it was in my brand and that sounds weird and like I know I should say like my identity is in you know God or whatever like Christians would say but like my identity was largely in my brand which I took with me my identity was in me as a real estate investor that was part of it which I took with me I already had real estate so when I left part of my identity I didn't lose all of it which is I think is often what people have so I think people need to before leaving a company should probably uh try to figure out where their identity is actually at you mentioned while we're in the boat once again I think it was yesterday that every time you've had money since you were a kid you have a problem blowing it yeah what do you mean by that like how could yeah like you said you can't serve two Gods it's like you're also really smart with your money but at the same time you just consistently just like bought frivolous things I just I mean I like I like fun stuff so like I don't know even when I was a kid I just want to go and buy whatever I mean just stupid stuff right that's just temporary um and so I just know that about myself but if I don't have money I won't spend it on dumb stuff like when I got I got uh some a company I invested in got sold I got a bunch of money and the first thing I did bought that Ford Raptor that sit out there like I was like I'm G to get a raptor and then the rest of all the rest of the money all of it I just bought this house with like the one that we're in right now right cuz I I will I will then I have zero problem buying real estate with my money like I will blow my money on real estate because I know that's just a bank account this house is a bank account it's just one that I can't easily access and it I I bought the house almost in cash and then someday when I sell it I get that cash back so it's just a really hard to reach bank account here's the other reason I do that uh when I was younger I used to play a lot of Monopoly a lot of Monopoly my buddy Boon Greenley shout out to Boon Greenley and I in high school in the summer one time we played every single day of the summer we played 100 games of Monopoly I think over 100 days something like that it was wild so I love Monopoly and I'm really good at it and the reason I'm good at it is cuz my strategy is to get rid of my money as fast as possible like you will never play Monopoly as well as when you have no money sitting in front of you because then it like then it matters you're watching a football game like what's the best part of a football game is when the team's down by six points they've got 90 yards to run or get down the field and there's two minutes left on the clock that's the best football you'll ever watch because like there you have to win you have to get to that end of The End Zone that's when they play the best so I play the best when I don't have just millions of dollars just sitting and making you know it's got to be working it's got to be out there I got to feel a little bit like I got to feel broke if I don't feel broke I get lazy do you have any controversial takes about money or any misconceptions that you feel like people have that's a good question I mean part of it is that people always say money just refines who you are uh and it just makes you more of who you are I just I think that money makes you a worse person for most of the time so that would be probably one uh hot take on money uh I think that people spend way too much time and focus on saving money rather than making money I think it's way easier to make money than save money uh and I think people are like well I don't really want to buy that latte right I like and I could pick up you know that's kind of a lot of your brand is like like like being cheap I have never been cheap like I'm I'm the opposite of cheap people make fun of me for that I just like I'm just just buy whatever I want generally uh but that's because I can I can go and generate a a lot more money a lot easier than I can save $50 a month on whatever like I probably have hundreds of dollars right now in subscriptions that I'm not using across different I have every one of the video things that are out there I probably have let's call it $200 in video streaming services that I'm pay for that I'm not currently really using I've got kids I don't watch TV I don't watch anything all I need is Disney plus I'd be fine should I go and cancel all of them maybe or should that part of my brain just not even worry about that instead worried about how can I go and make an extra million dollars for better life that I can give away to Tim TBO so he can go fight human trafficking and save a bunch of women and kids from slavery yeah that's that's what I want my brain working on I don't want my brain ever focused on like how do I save another $50 but now do you think that's you do you think the average person has the capability to just say well I'm GNA keep my $200 a month streaming and I mean okay there's there's a there is a there's a point in your life you need to to pull that back for sure and this is not everybody this is me uh there was a moment in my life when I was younger where I mean shoot we like we were struggling I was probably 23 years old my wife and I were struggling like just couldn't figure out why there's no money ever so I read Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover and he's like give every dollar a name and get the envelope budget out there and I did that and immediately I realized I was spending like $1,000 a month more than we were making we were making like two grand a month we were spending three yeah for sure we needed to budget and pull back and do all the work of canceling subscriptions and all that uh and so yeah have a baseline so you're not stupid but I just think that making money is more fun and it's easier than saving money why do you think rich people are seen as evil and specifically landlords yeah there you know a leech on the system and that nobody should be turning housing into a profit business people are uh they want what they don't earn uh they don't they want what they haven't earned and they think that everything should be given to them I think a lot of people have that view now are there bad landlords out there I'm sure there are uh is it unfair yeah capitalism is kind of fair is it the system we have yes uh show me a better system that works for everybody and I I would love to learn more uh but everything that's tried just doesn't work like what works is capitalism uh and so yeah I think people just get people see wealthy successful people and it makes them feel bad about themselves and so for example if I see if I see somebody with a six-pack my immediate reaction like my like soul is I don't like that person they probably a bad husband right like that that's what I'm like they're probably really bad with their kids they're probably horrible their all they do is go to the gym all day I immediately find ways to make me not like them whyc like what do I like what does it matter if they have a six-pack it's because it makes me go I don't I don't have a six-pack and if I don't have a six-pack and he does it must mean that I'm a worse person I'm something inside me is not good I don't want to feel that way I don't like that negative emotion therefore I have to fight that with something else so I see somebody rich and I'm like well they're rich they must be evil that is explains why I'm not rich because I'm not evil does that make sense so yeah we we demonize people because we don't want to internally reflect that it might be our fault we don't want to believe that we're the bad guy in our lives but a lot of times we are if you were to start over today zero dollars zero connections but all of the knowledge in your head could you be a millionaire in a year and if so how yeah 100% I could uh and I say that uh in a couple fronts let's go with just real estate because that's what we've been talking about today I think it'd actually be easier in a lot of other avenues real estate is a slower game uh but yeah I would if I had all my knowledge and I had my Charisma I could go out there and find a $5 million apartment complex that I could buy for four that needs a bunch of work and I could go and raise the money and get that how could you raise the money if you like yeah just go to a bunch of local real estate meetups like there's meetups around no track record you like you'd be able to sell it anyways I think I could sell it anyways I think you just go higher enough there's a video that horoi put out a couple years ago that got a lot of like went viral and got a lot of like angry people where he said yeah it's easy to make a million dollars buy a $10 million asset for $9 million and sell it for 10 and it was everyone's like oh it's so easy like why wouldn't everyone do it well it's not easy but if I had a year and like gun to my head like had to get it done yes I can find a $10 million apartment complex for nine and I could probably sell it for 10 I could find a strategy to do that yeah I'm I'm very confident that wealth is a skill wealth is not uh an outcome it's just a skill you have and anybody with that skill can generate it do you believe in fate or do you think we create our own destiny uh I think we create our own destiny within bounds uh right so again not trying to overp spiritualize everything but you you heard the story of Jonah like Jonah in the whale or Jonah gets swallowed by a big whale or a fish whatever it's a it's a s story but in this story Jonah he's like like God was like you're gonna go to whatever this city and you're gonna go tell them all that they're being bad and he's like no I'm not and so he runs the other direction and then this giant like storm comes and he gets eaten by a fish or a whale and it spits him back out on the land later on it's it's a great it's a great uh kind of metaphor I guess you could say and I it's it's a story illustrates like you got to follow what God wants you to do I think that's an acception not the rule in other words I don't think God or if you're you know the universe or fate or whatever I don't think it says like you will go to this college and you will do this and you'll have this career but I think there are cases where it's like you're good at these things this is the bounds of which you are capable you are not like you're charismatic you're good at talking to people you're good at money and you're good at this so therefore you're like that's probably the bounds and area you're going to go so anyway I think the Jonah thing I don't think fate says you will do this exact thing I think that's a rare occasion I don't think God's telling me to go and build a real estate Empire I think I chose that but within the bounds of the skills that I have you mentioned that you think women are more attracted to guys that can demonstrate commitment and that growing a large beard is exactly that that's it is this just coping is this just coping uh it might be a little bit coping a little bit of making myself feel better about the beard uh no but really believe I think that there are just signals that a guy can give off uh that signal to a female and the same thing works the other way around uh that they will be a good mate so whether that's a biological thing an evolutionary thing or just a common sense right like a guy who's bigger is generally considered more attractive than a guy who is smaller like if you have no muscle whatsoever a guy who talks really really quiet and small is not as attractive as a guy who's got a big loud voice why because it signals like protection uh it signals you know like power and Leadership which then is from a again kind of hey I can protect the people in my life so the beard the beard tells one of two things it either tells the woman that this guy can commit to something for a long period of time just like a guy going to the gym he can commit to the gym he can commit to a beard or it tells the woman that you're trying to cover something up I don't know maybe I have a really weak chin you know I I respect the beard a lot because if I see someone walking around with a beard as miraculous as the one you have miraculous I've never heard of that that way thank automatically think like this is this is a really just personally person like they there's they have something to them that makes them a lot of whatever they are you know what I mean and like they're they're at least very sure of themselves and I think that that's that's a good thing I agree I think that uh a beard makes you kind of a caricature of yourself and I don't think that's a bad thing I think that uh there's too many vanilla people in the world and so whether it's a whether it's a beard or cool glasses or an interesting haircut or the the way that you talk or you're Alex Heros wearing like C offs and like the big muscle shirts like it just adds like this like oh that that's a that's a that's a character yeah I like characters does your wife like the beard she does I always say like actually from the beginning I said when people say how long do you want the beard to go how long you let it go for them like as long as my wife likes it and every length that's been my wife has liked it even more so I'm going to keep it going until she says I don't like it does she grab it uh no I don't I mean I don't think she like no I don't think she grabbed my kids grab it like this is a handle for the kids to get my attention like they crank it uh but yeah it's fun it's a good uh it's a good it's a good way to go through life how much would it cost to shave it off Millions like I'm not even kidding if you offered me a million dollars right now I wouldn't do it not a chance 10 million would could have a conversation uh 10 million to charity okay fine we'll we'll we'll have that talk but it's too much too much my identity I mean I I my Instagram is beardy Brandon right like I mean it's like like it's a big piece of who I who I am and uh yeah how long would it take to grow it back this would probably take about three years to get three years to get to that length that's how I'd guess it doesn't grow anymore it stays right here so you don't trim anymore I mean just like the the crazy flyways but it's it's about this long the thing is it has a it has a shape to it shape it yeah okay you do shap over at D Barber this is all you know done like the sides and everything because it's not like you know it's not wide yeah for a long before I started going to an actual good Barber who knew what they were doing like I just let it go and it started just looking like a homeless person's beard cuz when it just goes out and so I learned that good Barbers will shape a beard into something and there's a lot of different styles and this is just the one that she picked and so I go with expertise it's very cool thank you so so rare do you want to touch it yeah you know you ever seen that episode of uh Family Guy where there's like two bald guys in an elevator and then there's a third one that's not bald and then they're sitting there in the elevator and then the the haired guy leaves and the two bald guy look at each other and go I thought he'd never leave and they lick each other's heads what yeah it's the best such a great that is so that's what ball guys do so so bearded guys you don't know this cuz we don't do it in front of you uh when guys with long beard see each other we wait until everyone's gone and we go up and we like Avatar that thing you know Avatar where like the hair meets and they do yeah we do that we like we rub our hair together and we for we form a bond wow feels very good yeah dude it's it's magical actually like like it's beautiful it's a beautiful moment I'm gonna I'm GNA have a beard like that at some point in my life I think you should grow it out I think you should just from right now this point forward grow it out commitment hardcore commitment that'll do it if I end up finding a wife because of it you owe me I big time last time I was on this podcast we talked about you needed a haircut in order to find a wife so this time you need a beard this is this the focus of our podcast who knows what it will be in a couple years I'll need something else muscles huge giant that's definitely but only on one half of your body thatst commitment that's commitment it's restraint because you're not working out both but it's also like commitment because you can show the mus and you're a character win-win win that's a good point I think we figured it out over him what about any relationship advice that you have uh you know yeah Heather and I we met in college she was the first girl I ever dated first girl I ever kissed uh called my shot when I saw her from my dorm room I said that's the girl I'm going to marry and I went down there and you know four years later four years later proposed um man uh I'm G to steal a line from Esther Pearl Esther Pearl have you guys ever had her on the podcast no but John delone references her all the time oh she's amazing all the time yeah Esther Pearl says in your life you will have five marri is I hope they're all to the same person and I I think about that quote every day cuz what I'm like what I take that as is like the marriage that I had with Heather before kids was fun we went to Europe we traveled around I mean gram you're in it right now it's a fun marriage it's great the marriage with little kids is a totally different marriage and so many couples don't make it through that marriage it's just a different marriage and if all you do is lament the marriage you used to have and say I mean like I the life I I used to have that it was so good now I've got this hard life with little kids like you're going to always be miserable and then the next marriage uh when you have older I'd say like older kids right that are like teenagers that's totally different again and most people don't they don't make it through the transitions uh and they lose themselves in the process and then the marriage like after the kids are out of the house is real tough for people and then when you're old you have that marriage and it's a again a very different marriage uh so my best advice is just what I heard from Esther Pearl is like focus on the Transitions and just accept that that marriage is over for now uh and there always going to be pieces again but like I will never again have that marriage with Heather that's okay it was beautiful while it lasted now we have a new marriage and this marriage is beautiful as well even though it's hard and challenging and difficult and uh yeah do you have any book recommendations for anyone what are your top five oh man I'm such a reader I love reading uh new the newest one my favorite book is always the one I'm reading like I just get into every book and I'm like this is the best uh don't believe everything you think by Joseph like nwin I'm actually exactly sure to say his last name but don't believe everything you think was phenomenal it's kind of a book on like almost Buddhism I I love that one uh the one thing Gary Keller Jay papaz and the one thing is just about Focus I just apparently don't uh follow what I read but I love the book The one thing uh I absolutely love The Compound Effect from Darren Hardy it's like do the action over and over and over that made a big impact on me uh I'm gonna say from a it's not a business book it's a fiction book but I think it's one of the greatest leadership books ever written I loved it uh is Red Rising have you read that one phenomenal yeah Mike yeah oh it's such a good book hey Mikey yeah hey Mikey what's up Mikey good good choice of books uh Red Rising you can get at Target it's like a popular book but in terms of like how to lead and inspire a team like it's like I want to be Darrow like I even thought about naming my kid Darrow he's like the main character it's like dang that guy um last book man Rich Dad Poor Dad I Gotta Give it to Kaki I mean that's classic I interviewed five 00 people on the Bigger Pockets podcast Real Estate Investors and millionaires 90% of them named that book as the book that like most impacted their life and when I got interviewed like when it was my turn to being interviewed I would always say that book like when people ask me it's it changes your mindset more than any other book uh in the finance space I think it just Alters how you think about money and wealth and building it and it makes you believe actually internalize I could be wealthy someday I could not struggle there's a different life out there it's like look through the Narnia like the cupboard door and be like oh there's a whole other world in there yeah blows people's mind yeah and you didn't ask us to do this but because I think it would actually help out a lot of viewers here you have like a coaching thing right where you help people get through buying their first property and if they don't in the first year then they get all their money back or something yeah yeah yeah and it like there's a guarantee that is yeah yeah the guarantee is that you will buy your first property yeah there's a lot of okay so yeah there's a lot of I don't know bag real estate influencers out there that'll charge you know $50 or $100,000 like I'm going to help you be a real estate investor and then people go into it and then they don't buy anything they never do anything and they take advantage of people it's it's a really shady industry in a lot of ways like do you know like do you know about this practice like you'll go to like a a seminar it's not just in real estate but you go to a seminar for like a weekend boot camp fine and day one they're going to teach you negotiation skills that's what you need to succeed we're going to teach you how to negotiate well what are we going to practice on we're going to practice on your credit card companies we're going to get you to raise your credit limit on your your credit card that's how you're going to practice negotiation so they call up their credit card companies they do the script and they raise it from $5,000 to $25,000 the next day guess what the price of the program is and I've seen these documents from some of these companies it's it's blank they leave the price blank so they can fill the price in when the sales guys talking to the person with the price that their credit card was just raised to it is so shady I hate that stuff so anyway so I have a I have a program it's called first deal it's literally how to get your first deal it's like six grand and then yeah if you don't buy a deal uh but you did the work you get your money back if it doesn't work but I I don't think anybody's going to ask for the refund because either get a deal you didn't do the work or was you going to keep working with you until you did like it's not like the desire for wealth goes away yeah so yeah we just I just meet with people every single week on a group call and we have a bunch of advisers so anyway first deal you guys want to buy real estate link down below you didn't ask us to do that but I just wanted yeah yeah thanks for coming on the show you're a good man you're like a good Wing he's a good wingman you know like yeah you're like the guy at the bar who's like yeah my buddy over here he's got a good thing anyway yeah thanks man thank you for coming on the show thank you guys for watching it really means a lot we flew to Hawaii just for this we had to fly to Maui you had to had so so hard oh it had the worst hotel room ever you had to put up with this if you appreciate us being on a 6 and a half hour flight to get here for this for like two hours we spent 12 hours on an airplane two hours of a podcast hit the like button and subscribe that's it it would mean the world to us and it's free to subscribe just hit the Subscribe button that's it thank you guys or don't if you don't want to you don't have to yeah you you don't have to mean a lot to yeah buy some in next funs at the very least thanks for watching next till next time