Beyond the Website: Why Omnichannel is the New Growth Engine

Hi, good morning everyone and first of all you know it's a privilege to be here moderating a panel with such esteemed guest and speaker and uh you know we'll hope to do the best of the time over here. uh the way uh we'll run the uh discussion is uh you know we'll have some pointed questions for uh each of you but I also invite the co-panelists to you know talk about this because these are not specific to one brand the often the themes are you know definitely sort of cuts across and I'm sure you have interesting insights to add uh here as well right so uh not pointing it out but you know usually you start with ladies first so maybe you know uh we'll start with you Shishi and uh the it's been an interesting journey with Indo era over the last few years and you've sort of crossed many interesting milestones in revenue uh the way the business has you know come up in the tier 2 tier three focused e-commerce first and so and so forth at the same time you're also taken steps moving towards omni uh there are few stores which are opening up just maybe just you know tell us a little bit about that journey and how the omni channel experience creating a unified experience experience uh becomes a bit of a challenge to crack when you move from online to offline, marketplace to uh store. How you looking to solve those? So like any brand starts their journey whether through online or offline ultimately uh the product needs to be delivered to the consumer and when you are starting your journey through online channels and then parallelly planning to get into offline is very interesting because in online journey you only understand what is selling but in offline journey you get to know why is it selling. You actually get the consumer on your firsthand experience and that's the reason today even if you talk about Apple they opened their own flagship stores in India to understand what the consumer and how the consumer is having that experience rather than going from just the franchisee model. So and especially when you talk about apparel and the different body fits that Indian government garments have you need to have that experience through offline channel and in offline that doesn't mean it's just about having a store which is like a four-world store but it is more about that what is consumer saying why are they buying it for what reason have they shopped before uh buying into the store on online and what is the thought process of the consumer when they see a brand online for years and then they actually get into a particular store. So this has been the ultimate mindset while we move from online to offline. One of the things secondly which is more important that if you have captured a consumer from uh any channel spending so much of amount like spending into CAC spending into customer acquisition in terms of product pricing in terms of delivering different styles for their different occasions and then making them enter into your store because that consumer ultimately is also shopping online also shopping offline and also doing quick commerce. Of course, the purpose is different. They're not just buying for same purpose online versus offline. Offline is more um you know it's more about ex how you experience it and what you want to buy. So this has been the overall thing for us >> and you know uh one of the things which one often thinks about pricing and versus experience especially in apparel because you know there's a very uh different sort of a thing you're looking at online it's often convenience it's speed but when you're in the store there is a opportunity to premiumize let's put it like that anything which you observe that it's there or what has been your experience about So of course uh because of online being the first channel you have a lot of data in terms of pin code, in terms of taste, in terms of what occasion people want to buy and especially when you go offline, you have that construct. Okay, you cannot have everything on the shelf because we have uh 13,000 designs with six different sizes and putting them all in one place would not never be possible. So you have to curate. So the curation is of course done in terms of that you become profitable because we have been bootstrapped since day zero and the most important thing becomes like what the consumer is actually looking for not what we want to offer and be everywhere. Of course, I understand the consumer has today for example entered into ambience mall and um they are looking not for a daily uh ka set because they have come with the whole family from the traffic of Delhi. So they don't want to just experience one of the product. they want to experience something for their particular occasion or particular u reason why they want to uh get into a physical store and then purchase it rather than just ordering online. So we curate the collection according to the season according to the demand according to understanding what is the purpose of being on a offline versus a online that is most important for us. >> Fair. Uh moving to sort of and sort of your of course your story is probably the other way around where you know Lai Jira has been a offline first uh you know uh great innovation amazing price point available practically everywhere when you're walking around the street uh you know and you know it's you can just pick it up and it's been a fantastic reception from the consumers as well. uh when you look at the playbook of growth in the future and when you're also considering channels like UCOM, modern trade, all of these uh areas where the propensity to have a slightly larger pack size, maybe a differentiated pricing, maybe a little bit different on the type of product itself. So are you looking at your playbook any differently than the one you followed so far? >> First things uh thank you for having me. uh to be honest with you uh it was it's been a very simple we've actually kept things rather simple for us uh what we actually tried to understand is where do beverages sell in India and uh also what is even what was even more important is to understand who your target consumer is now each of these channels actually cater to different consumers uh there are different cohorts obviously there's always going to be overlap that said there are specific consumers that each of these channels cater to. So what we first identified is who are TG is. Uh then we try to understand where do beverages sell in India. What channel uh sells most beverages in India and that gave us a very logical answer that 70% of beverages actually 70% of all FMCG in India is sold in GT that offline channel. Uh obviously there's a lot being said today. uh about about quickcom and and and other channels but that offline channel building that is probably uh is the most sophisticated last mile retail network that India carries and it's pretty bloody difficult to be honest with you uh you can't just spend money and create that visibility getting those shells comes at a lot of cost and effort um what I think how we look at it about the future is that obviously uh there is no brand out there who would not want to be uh not present in a channel because each channel serves a certain purpose and each channel as I said serves a certain uh customer. Uh so I think just in my opinion I feel slightly uh different about the word omni channel. Everybody says that I think uh without really understanding that multi they're talking about multi- channelannel and not omni channel. I'll tell you the difference in my mind. uh being on every channel is just being multi- channelannel. Omni channel ideally should help you get incremental sales in the original channel that you are and then using the information or learning from the getting the information from the other channel. Like for example, I'll give you an example that makes slight things slightly easier. Let's just say I launch on quickcom. uh something like a quickcom gives me a lot of visibility on the data on who's buying me and when is it they're they're buying me in GT you don't know that information that information is extremely difficult I know the last retailer where I can sell to but who is the consumer who's buying me from that retail shop I can't have that visibility but quickcom visibility here so now if I can utilize the information who's buying me in a certain micro market in Delhi is this area can who's buying me and what SQ is selling better and if I can sort of utilize that data to optimize my inventory in whatever uh distributor I'm having over here so that his rotation is fast now that is omni channel when I'm able to utilize the information of quickcom and improve my efficiency or get incremental sales in GT so that is what I believe should be the future this is how how we see key you got to be present in all channels but utilize the information data to help get incremental sales just moving one consumer who was buying me from GT now is buying me at Quickcom that is not really consumer growth so we just think of it like this >> no that's a interesting perspective in terms of how one channel's insight can feed into another >> and uh you know speaking of that u and Siddhart if I can come to you uh you know beauty brands perspective there are many more like you have a beauty advisor channel you have a of course a modern trade you can have a BBO and so in so forth like how do you create a a sort of a prioritization between all of them uh and is there any merit in sort of like sort of alluded to that creating a omni channel experience which cuts across and makes the brand very consistent >> I think Okay. Um, so what I'm going to do is I think adding to Sorup's point, I think I agree that it's finally multi- channelannel. I don't think it's omni channel. Um, if you look at beauty, every channel actually does a different job for a consumer. So, um, a consumer on Nika will possibly be in a far more explorative mode, willing to discover a new brand, new products, understand a routine, etc. And therefore what you do in that channel has to be slightly tweaked versus what you would do in a quick commerce where someone is sitting to top up what they already know and therefore what you list what kind of assortment you have. I think those are the things that change in case of beauty. What does not change is how your brand comes across. Um and that needs to remain consistent actually across every channel and every touch point. Um, and that means that every time someone sees a creative or a pack, uh, you come across as what I saw you on Instagram, uh, and the way you came across as a brand, it's the same color, it's the same code, it's the same vibe, it's the same feeling, right? U so I think that's the part that you build uniformity on and then where you separate it is actually what the channel has to offer to a consumer. Um and in that I think the interesting job that uh a general trade or a modern trade uh does is I think we classify general trade uniformly. Um but if you ask me I would look at it differently. I would classify a beauty store in general trade possibly as competent as Nika to sell to a consumer because the consumer is again in a similar mode. When they walk into a beauty store they want to chat with the store owner. They want to understand what's new. They want to try a few products, they want to figure out what color works for me and then they want to make a purchase. Uh so that mindset is the same whether I do this offline, whether do this online. So when you start looking at it from a consumer continuum rather than a channel continuum, I think you make far more holistic decisions uh when you do this. >> Fair and you know obviously the channel complexity you can't overstate in today's uh time and era. uh but what it also uh brings in mind is that you know how are we internally structured and what are the capabilities we have within the organization and DTC companies very different capabilities large companies very different sort of mindset capabilities and DU I'll come to you because you have a benefit of seeing this play out you've obviously also with the benefit of your previous experience seen this in multiple other uh areas as well so what do you feel is that a large company uh sort of gets to learn from the smaller counterparts and vice versa. >> Uh no, so great question. I think uh an acquisition first of all is a very expensive way to learn. Uh I know there's been a lot of debate on the internet about an MBA, but try an acquisition much more expensive. Uh so we better learn, you know, if you're doing one. Um and we've done about six acquisitions so far. Uh we've had an investment in True Native Man Company with fragrances, Briller, uh which is into hair oils and skincare. We do aloof Fruit which is into fruit juices. And most recently we've acquired VIX and Skincraft. I think the the one thing frankly in all of these is is reflexes. We're not really buying scale. Uh we're buying the speed at which these brands are reacting. We're buying the speed at which they're interacting with an ecom, a quickcom platform or even my GT distributor. Right? So where my parent entity comes in is a 25 to 30% very profitable business. Their processes that are running everything. Nothing will go wrong. But where these brands are coming in is we will provide you 2x the growth because we are willing to take risks. We have the license to take that risk. And so you know for us it's a very nice u you know it's a very nice situation that we're building where we have a core very profitable business and a set of new brands that have entered very interesting demand spaces that honestly we would have been stuck trying you know in in various innovation workshops and may not even have come up with these ideas right but here are brands that have taken it to scale and then we feel that we have the ability to you know make the right connects very importantly let them run independently let them do what they want to But uh you take away the boring stuff. So for instance, you know, I've got multiple founders here on stage with me. How many of you started your company because you like doing GST filings, right? Probably no one. Uh but we take that boring stuff away. We keep the craziness. We keep the agility. At least that's the attempt. And and that's that's the learning, right? That's how we grow. >> That's actually uh you know, pretty much an ideal case to land, right? in a way that if you take the boring stuff away and you can just focus on you know as they say uh making your beer taste better then you know of course that's the ideal place to be. uh let me switch gears a little bit and maybe uh you know invite everyone's thoughts also on innovation and maybe Shishi I'll start with you like in terms of uh one of course uh how do you see omni channel or for that matter online versus offline is it aiding innovation the speed of innovation you spoke about so many designs and so many complexity uh how do you sort of get it right because there is a limit to how much of AB testings you can do >> so for any fast fashion brand today you know uh the pressure is high you know you have to deliver 250 designs every month um the launches needs to be on the time you can't miss the deadlines if it's Diwali you need to launch it prior to that if it's Eid you need to do it before that otherwise it will not make sense so it's very uh you can say interesting plus it has a huge risk how you really mentioned and that's the reason today if you talk about any brand who has been like uh omni channel has not existed in this space especially into ethnic wear because uh today 95% of the market is still unorganized and that's the gap that we saw that okay a lot of people can't do it. So we started with one thought that okay we don't want that any anyone's perception to drive what we want to deliver to the consumer but we want to create something which the consumer is already searching. So we did data designing. We understood what people are searching and what is the uh output they are getting in terms of okay if somebody's searching today a black ka to wear it for a office uh from a tier three city and uh the Google or any of the platform is showing something of 2,000 rupees it's not going to make sense for her to buy that ka for that purpose. So we understood the right problem and that has been our visions from since day zero and this is how we arrived to creating designs. So all our designing has been like a data designing. It's not aesthetic design how it goes for any other brand. And parally what we did uh to kind of initially in days when you know when you're starting when you have to figure out okay whether this will work or not work because we have to keep the inventory then wait for the consumer to buy it. Okay, we cannot be like okay once the order comes then we have to create it. So all that we started with doing lesserQS uh so that the risk is less the number of styles are more and then we understood okay this is working this is not working initially when you start doing it maybe 50% is working 50% is not working but today at a accuracy of more than 83% uh all uh designs have been moving >> that's I mean I think uh for any fashion brand to have a 83% success rate of NPDS is unheard of. So you know congratulations that's fantastic. Uh any other comments like you know D Shat or sort of on the speed of innovation you're obviously seeing different facets of business coming together. So you know how does that move with time? >> So um I think I'll quickly add um on innovation I think what um works and it's not an omni channel question. It's really a question of how clued you are into uh what's happening in the world and I think it's much more easier now to land information. So for example in beauty skincare it's quite easy to figure out what kind of ingredients are trending where are Google searches heading um what kind of uh products globally uh consumers find exciting. I think that that that I think part is now more democratized. I won't say it's easy. Uh but then how do you take that and then you turn it around and land it uh in the cute packaging that key has today or how do you land it in the language that fits your brand. I think that's where the tough part is. Um and uh you know at key for example one of the things uh that's worked phenomenally well for the brand is that we keep figuring innovations out well in advance. We always uh make sure that um when we think of an innovation, we always think of how it's going to land for the consumer in India, for our climate, for their skin type um in the package that we want or in the pack that we want, in the colors that we want, right? So, so suddenly your moving parts increase when you add your brand filter into it. Um and I think that's the part around innovation u is the tricky part I think now for brands to figure out. Yeah, I think uh one thing I've noticed uh which is very unique about quick commerce uh not in modern trade, not in general trade, not in any other channel that I've come come across, even ecom is very very uh restrictive and slightly small because uh visibility is sometimes filtered. Quickcom gives you the absolute last mile. I mean imagine if you want to start up a brand today, what does what has been happening so far? You come up with a product uh which may or may not be differentiated generally is the same. You just play around with the packaging which is very differentiated but in terms of pack size in terms of uh moqs and all of that. You just pick up what is happening what the legacy players are doing and then you just try and copy that emulate that and just put it out there without double click into into it key where can I create a differentiation. Now what quickcom does is give you so much information firsthand that allows you to customize every piece of that uh journey of journey. We were just trying to figure out the packaging piece. That's where the innovation was happening. But now you can go right to the point key a package packaging of four might make more sense because it's not there. the packaging of six is there or or how you sell it, what you sell it with, uh what what are the features that actually matter more to a customer all all of that visibility is not there back in the day through any other channel it's very restrictive GT there is no visibility whatsoever so I think all of that has helped come uh make people come come up with innovative ideas but only basis the information the data that is inbound because of quick So I think that's what has changed. Otherwise, uh we're all founders. We've looked at what legacy players have done and we've tried to come up with slightly differentiated offerings, but at the end of the day, the inspiration was them. Fair and maybe just on that and I'll also invite through both of you are you know in the beverage category in some parts, right? I feel that uh there is a whole consumer experience element in at the moment when you are consuming the beverage. It gives you a a a sense of uh you know maybe it's the food that you're having it with. Maybe at the time that you're having it with it's chilled it gives you a very different experience versus you know something else. Uh how do you sort of look at creating replicating some of these experiences to build that brand's u you know familiarity let's say with the consumer so that when you pick up a food a particular type of like biryani for example many of us will probably relate to it. You pick up a biryani and you're immediately reminded of a cola, right? So, how do you build those kind of experiences and associations? >> I'll go first. Uh I think to begin with a beverage brand uh should any brand for that matter any consumer good brand should not try and start creating an experience right immediately. I mean first you need to figure out the right product market fit. Try to understand what and why is the consumer trying to or wanting to consume you. Uh so we basically launched something so familiar uh that existed in every household which is Zera. Uh that we did not really have to introduce uh it was differentiated in how in form and factor but it was always familiar right and then we tried to launch it at a price point which is extremely accessible. uh we try to ensure that we first targeted uh the GT which is the most difficult channel generally but because it was the largest channel and the chances of success became higher because that sort of carry 70% of total sales uh so we just chose we did things simple kept things simple focused on one thing we didn't try and launch ourselves everywhere we were not trying to create an experience right away what we were trying to understand is if the consumers like the not if they like it. What was happening is people were liking it. People were talking about it and they were creating their own moments of consumption, occasions of consumption. We just tried to figure out what were the occasions of consumption, what was the pattern, what was the behavior of the consumer and then tried to double down on on it by sort of integrating all of that into everything that we say that the brand says, the kind of advertisement that we did. We only picked up on the nuances of the consumer behavior that we learned over the period of time. So not everything and create an experience does not mean I create a experience center and say now my brand has an experience center and therefore I'm trying to create an experience for the consumer. the very fact that that the consumer generally picks me up at a certain time or maybe after a meal. Now I need to double click into that and try and create more conversations around that so that becomes that that becomes culturally authentic. I just need to just make sure that I keep double clicking to it, keep reminding people that. >> So any advertisement that I do, I try and keep that in mind that those nuances need to be repeated, double clicked into and made sure that people are reminded after a meal. So I mean that's how we create experiences. >> See, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think unlike BPC, when it comes to food and beverages, the moment you taste it, right, that very instance, you know whether or not you're going to like it. You're not waiting for, you know, acne to grow away or hair to grow back. It's instant. And um going with, you know, tastes take a long time to change. It's a 10ear cycle. So going with something that seems familiar but has that edge, right? Like the kind of product that you guys have built. You know, for us, we've we've gone with aloe vera chunks within the juice. And we realized that there was a subsegment where for particular occasions, they really like the product. they wanted to have it, you know, alongside, let's say, certain festivals or, you know, on on certain occasions. It's not a breakfast drink. It's more of a dinner type beverage or it's more of a travel beverage. And so, we target those occasions. I think there's a scientific way of doing it, which is to say, you know, let's list down the 100 occasions. Let's list down who we want and so we'll ensure that we have at least two generations in every ad. We'll ensure that we have x number of colors. We'll ensure that this is the messaging that goes across. But I think a lot of it is also intuitive. I think what sort of you spoke about you know with quick commerce with e-commerce now if we have data to the you know end of one then we can figure out which are the occasions at what time are people purchasing our product how quickly do they want it what kind of quantities do they need what color uh are they buying more than the other colors and that we are able to tie to specific occasions and say okay let's reinforce this let's get the marketing going uh we don't care about primary sales we don't care about secondary sales we are only looking at repeat which means that you know the idea has actually worked Um so and that's the ultimate truth for anybody sitting here or anybody sitting in the room or anybody out there building a consumer brand. There is only one northstar. Everything is just a lot of you know a bunch of rubbish. The only thing that really matters is repeat for any consumer brand. I don't think there's a consumer brand out there who doesn't care about repeat. It can't work. That is the ultimate northstar. So that that's a fantastic segue into the question which I have for uh you know shishan Sadatu because repeat and if I were to build on that right uh the often quoted term around this is loyalty let's say that is there a the you know most uh often asked question is is there genuinely a room for loyalty programs and things like that in India and uh you know both of you I mean I will try and club them somewhat in the similar genre let's say fashion and skare care. They are you know often extremely considered product not as impulse but at the same time it can be highly repeated and you know when you stick to a brand you often tend to sort of grow with it. What's been your experience in terms of seeing that repeat and how is loyalty really a driver? What are the other ways of building that repeat with your customers? So for us, we don't think that repeat becomes only relevant when somebody's just buying me for a daily wear. I want to add into her closet for the other occasions and that's where we think that the loyalty is there that okay today if somebody has bought Indoera for uh maybe office wear and then she's buying for her sister wedding and then she's buying for her own wedding also that is where we see that okay the consumer has been loyal the how the price point has increased over the time span And for the same consumer how the basket size has increased because today in India the consumer is not just buying once or twice they're buying at least 12 times and if we don't serve them for their different needs somebody else will do it and that's where how journey started as everyday fashion and we believe that even a important occasion becomes a everyday fashion today because today people are socializing so Today a woman is not just wearing a outfit for one purpose. She's wearing it for the multiple purposes. So that's where we think that okay we want to serve for different occasions as well and that that's where we see the loyalty coming and uh apparently on Amazon we have been selling and rather than just if you want to understand how in a e-commerce a lot of taboo is there that okay the data is not there you don't get the visibility how or which consumer has bought but for us to understand was that okay If it's search is happening for the brand name and the consumer is not just randomly landing to your page or landing to your product from the search if the conversion is happening then you have win the game and that's how we started a journey and that's how we are building now. So um I think for a skinincare product I think loyalty is questioned every month when you run out of your pack of sunscreen right so u and every uh purchase occasion for a consumer becomes a point for considering another brand um and having said that for a brand like key to operate at a so we operate at roughly a 50% repeat rate u but I think the repeat rate typically comes back from and especially especially in beauty personal care from finally the product experience. So what you bought it for and did it deliver to it, right? So that's almost table stakes. Um and that experience starts one step before on what did you promise, what did you deliver, right? And then therefore when the next buying occasion comes up, am I considering you? Uh this the second big breaking point for loyalty is typically friction uh at the point of purchase. uh which usually in a category like BPC is disrupted by pricing mismatches across various platforms, channels uh discrepancy uh you know across multiple channels and I think the learning for us has been that if you can keep that friction to a minimum and you make sure that the next time consumers are considering the category your brand is um you know top of mind. I have a great experience using you and now as I go through the buying funnel. I see you as who you are consistently. I see you saying the same thing. And pricing is no longer a decision I have to think about because I'm pretty sure that the pricing here is 99% the pricing in any other channel. Chances are you'll convert. So I think that hygiene from a business and a model standpoint is very critical if you want to get it right. >> Fantastic. That's that's deeply insightful and while I'm sure we can continue this conversation uh you know for much longer and thanks a lot to all the panel members for making this such interesting but I do realize that the buzzer has rung. So with that uh vote of thanks to all of you for making time today. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> With my sincerest apologies but I'm sure do we have time to squeeze in one question from the audience? Yes we do. Of course. Take your seats. It's time for the Q&A. >> Sorry, I'll make it crisp. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh the first question is to D. Uh why are big companies like Imami missing out on those things and small companies are coming out with innovations uh these ideas and secondly tomorrow these six companies which are giving independent hand can be disrupting a bread and butter. So that's one. Second question is to Sor. Yours seems like more of a general trade brand. So where is the D2C component and how come it became so successful than when there were so many big cola companies around with so much of money? >> So um I think Imami as a whole you know we we don't like to call it our traditional brands. We call them our core brands. And we have a library we have a library of 700 new innovations that we are waiting to bring out into the market. Uh you know but there is a rhythm to it. There is a sequence in which we are launching. Obviously, the company has been launching new newer and newer products, but we agree and acknowledge that somewhere there are others out there that are building brands uh that we've missed the boat on and you know before the boat goes any further, we want to make sure that we uh try and get over even if we have to swim all the way, right? So, uh it's it's been built by acquisitions. So, Azandu was an acquisition. Uh creme 21 was an acquisition. uh since 2000 we have been acquiring companies and I think we've figured out the playbook to do it quite successfully. Second, you know this is our bread and butter. U last quarter we were 6% of the business. Uh last quarter last year we were 6% of the business. Last quarter this year we are 18% of the business and uh you know I'm pretty sure that we'll get to 25% very very quickly. Um so this this is really our bread and butter and I think the sooner we integrate from a financial perspective and everyone starts seeing us as also part of the business I think the better it will be for us. I think uh yeah it's it's been difficult when I first uh spoke about the idea to my dad and asked for capital he says you're stupid to be even considering building a business against the biggest possible brand names out there in the world on the planet I think but yeah I I think what we've actually done we've as Indians we've all been sold a global idea of hydration this is the ultimate truth we were never cola people we were always nibbani What we sort of did was we just made sure that experience was with some with all of us. Zerra as I said is the most familiar thing out there. We just try to bottle a brand uh something which is more very familiar. Bottle something extremely familiar and build a brand on top of it. Create not keep it merely transactional which it was there is we're not the first Zera manufacturers in India. Uh there always have been have have been a lot of regional play. uh that said it was extremely fragmented. There was nobody who was trying to build a brand around it. It was just a distribution business where you manufacture something and you try and sell something. We tried to take a different uh take on have a different take on it and try to try to build a brand on it. We kept culturally authentic and we said we will just follow the cues of our culture and then build something on top of that. So that was the whole thought process. Eventually uh brand is not built by us. It's not built by me or my team. It's built by the consumers. You guys built it. So all credit to you. Uh we're just the custodians of it and and one thing before you sort of take away the mic and and uh and I wanted to say it before as well. I think uh on behalf of all the founders all on this stage and and out there uh Indian folks uh we as Indians have always been extremely fascinated about western products and and imported goods. It's there that fascination I understand and I'm I'm part of that wave right. uh but we need to now understand and appreciate there's a reason why Indians have not been able to create large conglomerates like uh uh like an Apple or large brands which are which have international presence we have very limited few right Amul and and Haldans maybe a few to name but otherwise very very limited the biggest reason is that we Indians only don't believe or trust Indian founders to build highquality products now Hand on heart if I give you two options if you go to a supermarket and two options are there priced similarly looking different exact same quantity and stuff one is imported brand name one is Indian brand name by default you go you'll go for an imported brand name that habit needs to change we need to start trusting that Indian founders can build quality products and Indians need to start buying consuming Indian products if they are worth their price I mean that's my only request we got to stop that fascination about imported products Only then will India become come up with great large companies and brands. Yeah.