Between the Piers Episode 17 - Matthew Jude Barker

[music] and one. Yes, folks, your eyes do not deceive you. Uh, I'm on video now. I don't know whose idea that was, but I am th this is now on video. Uh, thanks to a collaboration with the Portland Media Center and PMC Watch, Between the Peers is now going to be on video. This is super exciting because this is always where I wanted to take this and now I'm finally doing it. So, I'm just glad that everything's going the way that it's going. Great to see you all. Thank you for joining me for another hour. We are once again in my office in the Portland Media Center. Um, the podcast studio of course. Uh, but if you're here to look at me, you're here for all the wrong reasons. You should really be here to listen to my guests. And my next guest is a very, very special one. If you've been listening to my podcast for a while, you would know that the last two episodes I had were about the Civil War and about the Irish-American experience in Portland. Excitingly enough, my next guest allows me to combine both of those topics into one presentation for you. My next guest is Matthew Jude Barker, author of Becoming American and The Blue and the Green, which follow the Irish-American Experience in Maine and the Irishamean Experience within the Civil War, respectively. I am really excited to chat about this, as you can tell. Matt, how are you doing? >> Oh, great. Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. Thank you so much for being on. And uh yeah, I really am excited to get into these book. Who are these Who are these two right here? Oh, that's uh Michael uh Michael Daly and Annie Meon. >> Michael Daly and Annie Me. Is there a story behind that? >> Yeah, they were from She was from Coney Cla and Okay, >> they were married here in Portland in 1867. >> Excellent. >> And that's one of the only photos we have of, you know, any Irish immigrant >> in the mid 1800s. >> Really? >> Portland anyways. Yeah. >> So I said, you know, I talked to a friend of mine. I said that would look be a good cover. You know, >> that is a very very nice. >> We believe that's on their wedding day. >> Oh, really? Yeah, >> they look so excited. >> Yeah, I [laughter] know. >> Wow. >> So, becoming American, is that entirely about the Irish experience in Portland or is that in the Irish experience beyond? >> Well, it focuses on Portland, but it covers, you know, a lot of the Irish elsewhere in Maine >> and the connections to Boston and New York and and of course direct connections to Ireland, especially county Gway and other counties. And you know it, you know, originally I was just going to do a book on the Civil War, you know. >> Sure. >> I said, "All right, I can do that." Four years, you know, the war and um and then I kept going. And then uh I started over 10 years ago. >> And then I decided, well, while I'm at it, I have so much of material already on um the great hunger of the Irish potato famine. Yes. >> The late 1840s and the no nothings who are menaced Irish immigrants here in Portland and Maine. Um, >> what is a no nothing? >> Well, it was an anti-immigrant society. >> They were called the no nothings. >> Yeah. Because they they whenever they were asked uh about their activities, they said I know nothing, you know. So they started calling them no nothings and almost as a joke or insult, but then they took over the, you know, they had other formal names, you know. So they were especially against Irish Catholic immigrants because those were the big, you know, the big people coming, you know, waves coming in at the time. >> Absolutely. And that was following the great hunger. Correct. >> Yeah. Right. After Well, in fact, they had previous groups like that all the way back to the 1830s in in uh all over the United States. >> Okay. What were those groups? Well, it was like the United uh order of Americans or I mean just like real patriotic the sers of 76 or they were you know they were all almost all of um Yankees or you know by Anglo-Saxon Protestant um and pro yeah Protestant so and other know other people joined who were Protestant but you know they basically hated Catholics first and then Irish immigrants and they but they especially focused on the Irish Catholic immigrants and the Germans too that the especially German Catholic immigrants because those were the two biggest ethnic groups immigrating in the 1840s and 50s to America. >> Sure. It seems that Catholicism was a bit of a was a bit of a easy target for these groups back then. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, they burned down three churches in Maine. They tied and feathered >> Oh my gosh. >> a Jesuit priest in Ellsworth, Maine >> because he was left him for dead. Yeah. cuz he was he was uh it's a long story but you know I mentioned that in my book I have a whole section on father Bapt. >> Oh wow. >> Who they name afterwards uh people of Bangar horrified cuz he had been in you know a pastor in Bangar and eventually named a high school after him in Bangor. >> Wait John Baptist is named after a guy who was and feathered. >> Yeah. >> That's awful. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. father John Baptist who was a Jesuit from Switzerland and he later became the the founder of um the first president of Boston, first president of Boston College. >> Really? >> And they have a Baptist library down there. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, uh but he was haunted the rest of his life by that. I mean, they stripped him naked, tied and feathered him >> and they wanted to burn him or hang him, but you know, wiser heads prevailed. So, but they rode him around town on a rail >> and then left him for dead on the w in Ellsworth. >> Wow. But armed Irish men found him and you know and then he next day he cleared out of Ellsworth and all over the Bible question. Um that erupted all over the United States. >> Sure. >> Um uh the Catholics had their own version of the Bible and Protestants had their own King James version. >> Yep. >> As you probably know, a lot of people know. And so it's a long long story, but >> that's remarkable. That's I mean that's just awful. Goodness gracious. >> Yeah. So no, nothing's you know faded out. Actually they split up because of the issue of slavery. >> Oh dear. >> And then uh but they never went away completely. In 1870s they came back under another different names. In 1890s it came back as American Protective Association. the American Protective Associ. Okay. >> And then again, it went after Catholics, but Irish Catholics, but they especially wanted to go after um the newer immigrants who they deemed really unworthy, the Italians, the Jews, the Polish, Eastern Europeans. And then then it subsided again until the uh the Protestant Republicans in uh Maine and uh the Northeast went after the Irish and Jewish people right here in Portland uh on the city council and they formed chapters here as you know the KKK >> in Portland. >> Yeah. Oh my goodness. >> Yeah. They burned across in Portland. They marched up Conger Street. >> So uh it's it never went away, you know, unfortunately. And as we can see today, I don't want to get into the too much into the uh modern times here, but you know, it you know, unfortunately, we see it again. It never it's never gone away that um anti-immigrant, anti-forign, anti-atholic, whatever, you know, anti-Jewish, >> definitely >> anti-semite. So at any rate, so I have a chapter on that and becoming American, you know, explaining, you know, >> everything that happened. >> Uh, and they tried to burn down the Catholic Church in Ellsworth, but they they were uh they did burn it down the Catholic churches in Bath in Lewon and um >> there's some really nice churches in Lewon. Yeah. >> So that's really tragic that they >> Yeah. That was 1850. So a lot of those giant churches that you see now like the Basilica in Lewon, you know, they were built later on, but >> Mhm. >> So uh so I go, you know, so anyways, so I decided to do that whole era, you know, the no nothings, the great hunger, the coming of the railroad, then the coming of the British steamers. >> Yep. the um industrial revolution and then all the you know the battles of the with the wigs versus Democrat and then the Republicans versus Democrats and then and then right up leading up to the you know civil war. >> Absolutely. >> And then I wanted and ended up say well I got to do the five years right after the war the aftermath the um the Finians with the Irish re revolutionary group. >> Was that in connection to uh Easter Easter rising? Well, no, but they did call themselves the Irish Republican Army and the Irish Republican Brotherhood. And they uh invaded uh Canada five times, including Eastport, Maine. >> Wait, the Irish the the the Irish >> a lot of them who were Civil War veterans right here in Portland. They formed chapters of the Finians and a lot of them went up to St. Almonds, Vermont, and Eastport, Maine, and they wanted to invade Canada. Well, take over part of Canada so they can negotiate with the British for the freedom of Ireland. >> Oh, wow. Wow. So, it's kind of, you know, sounds far-fetched, but, you know, other, you know, and but they really believed it, you know. >> Oh, absolutely. >> And, you know, these Irish immigrants and, >> uh, so they formed a chapter here after the war, right? Like a month after the war ended. >> Mhm. >> And, you know, they was around for another five years. Um, and then I, you know, so I b and then I basically wrap it up with, oh, I have a a big section on the great, uh, fire of Portland. >> Yeah, there were a couple of fires in Portland there. Yeah. Uh well, let's see. It was burned three times before 1866. Nice. Twice by the French and Indians and the colonial war and then of course by Henry Mo during the revolution. And >> sure. Um, so and then I I end it pretty much. Even though a lot of the stories in here go past the 1860s, you know, because I follow the gener a few generations of the immigrants, you know, their children and uh and so many, you know, became successful and um and so I ended with basically with the dedication of the cathedral on Mjo Hill, you know, 1869. Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Very very good. Wow. I you know it's funny because you don't think of Maine as being a part of those stories, right? You don't think of Maine as being a part of the story of um the the IRA or um I I mean the troubles almost. But >> to learn that the IRA attempted to invade Canada to capture some land to negotiate with the British through Eastport, Maine Yeah. >> is kind of wild. >> Yeah. They took tried to take over Camp Capabello Island and you know they call himself the Irish Republican Army and Irish Republican Brotherhood but one of their leaders John Mahoney uh decided to call them Finineians. >> Sure. And that stuck and they were named for Finn Mcool Irish legendary uh warrior. >> Okay. >> From you know back in the day. >> Sure. Absolutely. That's Wow. But I thought I IRA as in the Irish Republican Army was something that really took over later during the troubles. >> Yeah. Um yeah, this was like not really connected directly to the you know the IRA that you know started during the um in the 1920s in Ireland and then of course uh they were revitalized in 1960s and 70s when they had the rail troubles and Buddy Sunday and everything. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Yeah. But so there, you know, there was been um continuous uprisings, attempted uprisings by the Irish Catholics against the British government, you know, going back to um601. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah. It's it was, you know, never ending. Well, they had breaks, >> of course. >> 20 30 years, man. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But then but then events happened like the Great Hunger that completely revitalized the fighting spirit. >> Yeah. 1948 they had a attempted uh uprising. They called they were called the young islanders and a lot of the young island leaders actually came to Portland many times to Portland. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Portland main people think it was kind of like a well not a backwater but you know kind of off the beaten track but >> off the grid. >> Off the grid but so many famous people came to Portland to speak in in Maine from you know from the 1820s right through the 1920s and or whatever you I mean, William Lloyd Garrison and Frederick Douglas who loved Portland. >> Frederick Douglas. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. That's that's a >> Yeah, I mentioned I have a section I do have a section uh I you know on the African-American community >> and Portland, the history. >> Absolutely. >> It's kind of a just an overview. So, I mentioned the uh Douglas and um I mean everybody came here. PT Bonham, Tom Thumb. Did you know that uh did you know that the uh you know that there's a population of black squirrels in New York due to >> PT bar? I've seen that. Yeah. >> It's because apparently he selectively bred squirrels to the point where they turned black and then a bunch of them escaped and you can only find them in like the greater New York area. >> Wow, that's amazing. >> It's just stuff like that. Um but I know that Barnam and Bailey Circus was a thing for quite a while, even after Barnum passed. I remember going to a Barnam Bailey circus when I was like >> Yeah, me too. Yeah. >> Oh gosh. five, seven, six, seven, five years old, whatever. >> Absolutely. Yeah. So, it's just interesting to hear that like PT Barnum is uh came to Portland. >> So, I I put that, you know, I have a little stories about the Irish Elour in Maine, you know, like um a poor guy Dennis Barry at the beginning of the war. Um during the 1860 presidential election, you know, and they were gearing up, Steven Douglas came here to Portland and Maine. Um he was the the main contender against Lincoln. >> Oh really? >> Yeah. He was they call him a little giant little guy and he was from Illinois. He was born in Vermont. But anyways uh this Dennis Barry an Irish immigrant they had all you know they would shoot off cannons firecrackers too fireworks but they would shoot off cannons and these political functions and the poor guy blew uh blew I don't know what happened. And he blew the and I mentioned here, you know, I got all the references to it, but sure he he blew off the can shot off the cannon and it blew his arms right off [laughter] as >> I shouldn't be laughing. >> No. Yeah. Guy, luckily he died. I mean, he wasn't, you know, >> that is a luckily he died moment. >> Yeah. I mean, he didn't suffer. I mean, he bled out, whatever. Sad story, but it just sounds crazy, you know. you know, and and so the Portland papers said, "Well, you know, in the last week or two, we've had three or four arms blown off and no, five or six people with their arms blown off. Couple people died and you know, they weren't making a joke, but the way they, you know, like the way >> the way they said it was just way too people's arms blown off. >> Sounds like an Onion article." >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And they're celebrating, you know, the the political uh you know, campaign of Steven Douglas. >> Yep. And um >> they just casually bring up the fact that this guy accidentally blew his arm off. >> Yeah. >> Was he was he just too close to the cannon when it shot? >> I don't know. Like said he was, you know, he's an elderly gentleman and um he was firing the cannon and you know, just a little clip. I I should probably maybe look into it more someday, but just a little tiny little item in the paper, you know. That reminds me of a That reminds me of a um not to get not to get too into the weeds about this, but that reminds me of I was looking at an old article in the KBEC Journal from way back in the day and there was this guy and I don't remember what his first name is, but his last name was Nutter and he like cut his thumb off on accident and then just like like carried it like this to the hospital and like carried it in his or even I think he carried it in his pocket to the hospital and the the news just very kind of casually was like, "Oh yeah, this dude cut his thumb off and then just carried it in his pocket to the hospital. It's like, [laughter] wait, hold on. Give me a second here. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. The I mean I I mean I, you know, I I started going through the old newspapers looking for, you know, bites for my my relatives in Portland and Maine. And uh >> and then I just started seeing all these stories about the Irish in Portland in the early 1990s. I said, "This is a treasure trove." I mean, and no one had been writing. I mean, these are everyday people. So this book is, you know, has the big wigs in here, the generals and mayors, but it's more a social history. It it talks about the everyday Irish people in Portland. >> Sure. >> And other pe other >> What is their general like if you were to take like a typical newspaper clipping describing the Irish in Portland at the time? What would it say? >> Well, they would first of all, they would always talk about the big drunken riots at Goram's Connor. Yep. >> Which is right down the street here. >> That's That was an Irish enclave, right? Yeah, I was an Irish enclave. I I have a section in there on it. And >> you know, it was uh you know, it was, you know, working-class neighborhood and pubs, saloons, and sailors, boarding houses, you know. Um but there was there there wasn't a week that went by from 1840s to 1920s that they they didn't have a story about Gums Connor [laughter] and usually not, you know, in a good light, you know. Yeah, I mean the one of I never forget the one and I I didn't put in the book because I couldn't find the article. I mean, I have it somewhere. >> Sure. >> In my rubble and of like Bridget Flity or somebody who who um you know was weighed 300 lb and and then you know she fell down the stairs drunk. They said Mrs. Flary fell down the stairs drunk again. I'm like this this is maybe [laughter] >> newsworthy. So I mean they would exaggerate some of these stories is hard to tell. I mean I I had to read 40 of newspapers to to write about the rum riot. Yep. And read the inquest and that's another uh story of course. Uh but they were just like you know you know the famous Mo Karns of Gorms Connor add it again you know big headline Patrick and Michael Mo Kern beat up you know Joe Foley and blah blah blah and it just was it lasted these stories lasted 80 years in Portland [laughter] or even longer than that probably >> when you when you read these stories are is this this you got to feel a little proud about it. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's a part of me like, you know, they were poor but proud and >> Y >> and everything was against them. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Um so, you know, one, you know, the church of course was one place they could go. >> Yeah. The Catholic Catholic >> and then they they formed all these different groups, societies, you know, where they could hang out. But of course, the biggest place, >> a lot of the work and we see it, I mean anywhere in the world today, the Irishman work all day, 12 hours or whatever. every day. And I mean, the lucky ones would would go have one or two drinks and go home. But the the unlucky ones would squ all night, come home drunk, and they got a wife and eight kids at home. >> Oh jeez. >> And they would have stories. They would just list the names, you know, of the the actual name of the guy, other woman who was found beastly drunk and, you know, passed out on the icebergs. you you know the ice flow on in Casco and it just went it never ended and but they would you know a lot of these stories I mean you would there would be a lawsuit today if >> oh 100% >> as we know yeah 100% it's like you know uh so a lot of you know so and then of course there were a lot of Irish that didn't drink at all and there was also a lot of Irish >> who had taken the pledge >> you know not to drink and they followed all their lives >> um I I can't you know Um, so many Irish became successful in Poland >> and they weren't bootleggers, >> you know, they were contractors and masons and they built half the, you know, half the city, half the southern Maine or Maine. >> Uh, and not only the workers, they were doing the physical labor, but the the boss would be Irish, the contractor. >> Excellent. So you had full Irish companies in that like essentially contributed very greatly to the the building up of southern Maine. >> Yeah. I mean that James and Francis Cunningham from Connie Lee they built the Lafayette hotel. >> Oh wow. >> Between the two of them and their children they built they built uh Lafayette there in Conga Street. They built the Union Station or they helped to build it I should say. >> Sure. >> They were contractors masons and contractors. They built Chevris High School in the 1950s. >> It's a nice high school. >> Yeah. and um they built you know it's endless. So they were the one of the two of the biggest contractors the wealthiest and they had two giant mausoleiums bigger than this twice as big as this room out >> I mean this this room's pretty small so >> but yeah I mean I don't know the giant mausoleiums out the Calvary Cemetery. >> Wow. >> One brother has one mausoleium over here another one you know. >> So there was you know and are there a lot of Irish women who saved the money like as as you had Hannah or Michelle on. Yes, actually a lot of domestics saved the money >> and or they got married and um >> and um a lot of Irish women um put a money put the money away. >> Yeah, absolutely. Sent it sent it back home. >> Yeah. A lot of them would send it home, bring over siblings. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> My great greatgrandparents came over here from Gway in 1882. >> Yeah, that's definitely that's a good point, right? because I think that um so previously I had interviewed the Bridget Project which is uh Michelle and Hannah Michelle Josephson Michelle O'Donnell Josephson >> and Hannah Fields uh passion project in Portland where they follow the lives of Irish um domestic servants and it's a really really incredible project. I know that you contributed quite a bit to that as well. >> Yeah. Well, I helped the three of us helped um do research on the the Irish maids at the Victorian Mansion. >> Yep. >> Um >> four or five of them were from the same parish is where my great great-grandparents came from. >> County Gway, right? >> Yeah. In County Gway. Yeah. Which was amazing, you know. Then, you know, and then a couple uh there was um two sisters named Chisum from Konamera. >> Mhm. and uh you know and the other ones I'm talking about came from the Bclair area outside of Trum and um you know so obviously you see the network and >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Uh but hey know like my great great-grandmother anyways my great great-grandfather worked on the railroad. >> Mhm. >> A lot of the Irish of course worked on the railroad. He was a freight handler and >> Yep. >> they lived on York Street and um you know she put the money away for years. you know, he didn't drink or anything. >> Did she sent it back to Ireland or >> Oh, I don't know cuz five of her siblings came here, so she might have must have sent something back. >> Something was attractive. >> Yes. And you know, she had like seven kids or whatever. And um that's just one of countless examples of Irish women saving the money either either single or married Irish woman. And of course, there was so many um so that's why I I I I went into great detail and a lot of the Irish occupations in Poland. >> Absolutely. whether it was a domestic or long showman or railroad worker, mason, c mariner, um you know, whatever, you know. >> Absolutely. >> I actually that's how I found out talking with Michelle and Hannah. That's how I found out that a commercial street used to just not be there. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. That used to just be water. >> Yeah. >> Right. It was right up to four street. >> Yeah. That's And that's four >> filled it in in the early 1850s. >> Wow. Yeah. Yeah. >> And that was that was close to the onset of the Civil War that they filled that in. >> Yeah. About 10 almost I think it almost exactly 10 years before. >> So talking about the Civil War um I understand your book The Blue and the Green follows the Irish um the Irish immigrants role in the Civil War. Did Maine have a um an Irish brigade like Massachusetts and New York? >> Um they uh they were trying to form one in Portland. >> Mhm. and guy named Andrew Douly from County Cork was a recruiting agent. He had served five years in the army at Fort Prebble and he tried to get an Irish regiment up but they just didn't have enough money or you know clout or >> Absolutely. >> So a lot of them did join the Irish brigade, the famous Irish brigade of um of New York. >> Yeah. Absolutely. And um and they said they were farming an Irish company in Sarco, you know, according to one article and the paper and there was a regiment that was more than half Irish from Holton, Maine. >> Wow, that's really far north. >> Yeah. And the Irish I I can't it still shocks me in a way that the Irish lived, you know, you know, you figure Yeah. Portland, Bitterford Lewon. They were the Irish were there before the French and Bitterford Lewon, Westbrook, Waterville, uh, Auburn, um, Bath, but Brunswick, but then they were all up and down the coast, down east, you know, from Rockland all the way to Eastport, Holton, Callus, uh, >> Wow. Yeah. >> So, they're all across M. >> Yeah. They were in Farmington. >> Farming Farmington's the middle of nowhere. >> I know. I there was a one family were whole bunch of tailor they were you know tailor and um one of them was Karen Karen Lockan >> and they called him Kit Kit Lock and I said well that's a cool name >> that's a really cool name >> that's I could use that for one of my novels someday Kit Lock and you know and he raced horses in Poland >> right after so you know he owned a lot of horses then he he was quite well off >> where did where did those races take place >> well they the first one was built well they had temporary ones, but the first permanent one was built >> near where Calary Cemetery is today. >> Okay. >> So Paul and Lyonia, >> uh it wasn't called Lyonia until right after the war, but um guy named William Baldwin, a county cork immigrant, >> built that, you know, >> and that was very popular for a long time. And then they built one on Mjo Hill. No, I mean not MJ Hill, Bram Hall Hill. >> Oh, wow. >> Then they had one in Libby Town and one. >> Wait, that's a really steep hill. Yeah. >> Bram Hall Hill racing track. >> They had it on the level up there. >> Okay. >> Up past the near main general hospital. >> Just trying to imagine the horses like running up a hill. >> Yeah. There was there's a you know right down right beside where I think it was right beside where um Main Medical is today, you know. >> Got it. So kind of near like the western prom. >> Yeah. It was 1860. So before Maine General Hospital, >> Main Medical opened 10 years before, you know. And uh anyways and they had so hus racing was huge in Poland from 1850s through the 1870s at least 1880s. >> Wow. >> And the Irish also going to rowan. >> Okay. >> You know skulls skulling the rowboats you had regatas. >> Oh wow. >> It was first all Yankee and then the Irish had took took it over. They well they formed their own clubs >> y >> and a lot of them became well they were the sports heroes of the day. >> Absolutely. >> Before baseball really got going. I mean baseball was here from 1858 in Portland. >> Yep. >> Um and by 1859 they were playing the New York rules of baseball. So I mentioned all >> the New York rules compared to what the Boston rules. Is that why the Red Sox and the Yankees hate each other? >> Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I I didn't have time or or the space to get too deep into that, but uh so I have a little section on baseball and Rowan. >> Mhm. >> And um you know, there was Michael Kid Madden from Mroy Hill. >> Mhm. >> Kid Madden who played with the Red Sox. >> Oh wow. >> Uh it was a coach >> and but died unfortunately at 29 of TB. >> Oh jeez. That's >> Yeah. So unfortunately his career was cut short. Um Mhm. >> Yeah. But he he made, you know, he uh went to the major leagues. >> Yep. >> So-called major leagues. Well, Red, but they weren't exactly called the Red Sox. >> I mean, the Red Sox are still pretty major league. >> Yeah. No, I mean, at the time, they were Well, yeah, they were major league, but um they weren't like, you know, Red Sox of today. In fact, they called them different [clears throat] they had different names. Sure. Beside, you know, they turned into the Red Sox. Red Boston Braves or I don't I can't remember right now. >> Sure. Absolutely. >> But you know um so the Rowan guys were the heroes of sports in Portland >> for 30 years >> 25 30 years until the then baseball took over. Then the Irish also formed football, basketball, polo teams, bowling. Oh, in 1870 one big thing was pedestrianism. >> Pedest What is it? Just walking across streets or >> It was walking contest. >> Like I'll bet I can walk from here to two lights before you. You know, >> so it's just race walking. >> Yeah, race walking. >> You know who would be really good at that is New Yorkers. Have you ever Have you ever walked in New York City? >> Oh yeah. You know people I thought I walked fast, you know. >> Yeah. You go to the New Yorkers, they're all walking insanely fast and they have nowhere to go. >> Yeah. They do that in Boston, too. >> Yep. So, it must just be a big city thing. >> Yeah. I mean, some people do it here, I guess, but not not like New York and Boston. And I've been other big cities, Montreal and Dublin, and they do they do it there. >> Sure. >> You know, >> so we talk about Maine's Irish culture historically, but what about Maine's modern Irish culture right in Portland today? What uh pockets of Irish culture can you find around the city? >> Well, we have the main Irish Harry Center, which is the old St. Dominic's Church. Yep. >> That was closed in 1998 and I was a member of the friend of St. Dominic that you know tried to save the the church. >> Yep. >> From closing but and worked out in the end became the Irish Center 25 years ago almost and um and that's a hub of Irish culture you know language classes and music and Oh really? >> I'm one of the genealogologists there and the resident historian and we have uh every Friday we're there to help people with their family history. >> No kidding. and helped them analyze DNA results and everything. >> So then you got the Ashame American Club of Maine, >> you know, uh uh who've been around for for 55 years almost. And then you got the uh the Portland Hurling Club. >> I was going to say the Portland GIA. >> The GA. And um you got the Cladamore Pipe Band. >> Oh, >> they they they are award-winning Irish band. >> Are they based out of Portland? >> Yeah, they've been around I don't know 20 years. Anyways, and they, you know, they march in all the parades of St. Parish Day. They've gone to Dublin and Ireland, Scotland, and they're they're in Scotland right now. >> Not bad. >> Yeah. And they they win, you know, they're not all Irish that to join the but the Celtic music pipes, everything else. And they're amazing. And they, you know, they uh won all kinds of awards, you know. So, we got Cloudmore, Pipe, um, Oh, then the ancient art of Hiburnians, which unfortunately I >> I was a president for a while. They kind of they're kind of dying out. >> The ancient order of Hibernians. >> So, so what is Hibernia? Like I've heard like I know the word hibernate, but I just >> Hibernia was the Greek or Roman name for Ireland. >> Okay. Y >> go 2,000 years ago. >> Yep. >> Hibernia and Hiburnia. So in 1836 in New York uh bunch of Irishmen then this was to protect the priests as they were attacked in churches and priests in New York in 1830s. >> Yeah. Because there was unrest between the Protestants and Catholics. >> Yeah. And the immigrants and the the old uh school >> y >> and you know so they formed the ancient of Hiburnians to protect >> their people the Catholic church and the priests. And >> we see that a lot in history. We see that the Irish the Irish really protecting their own. Yeah. Which I think is really really honorable. >> Yeah. I mean they um they always did that going back >> very time going back >> 16001. Right. >> Well, yeah. 16001 and long before that with the Norman invasion and the Vikings before that. >> Oh, it goes back all the way >> thousand years or more. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a I mean it's um there are a group of people that are willing to stand up for what they believe in and I think that that's really um >> I think that that's really honorable. That's really admirable. And I mean >> I'd have to I have to say it. I have to publicly say this. Um so we we we kind of briefly touched on the troubles, but um you know do you know the the Cranberry song Zombie? >> Yeah. Oh yeah. >> And you know what that's really about, right? >> About the um I don't know the Bloody Sunday or it was about the troubles. It was about uh I believe it was about a bombing that the the IRA conducted um that killed a couple of school children. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's a it's a genuinely if you know what the song's really about like every time I've been at a I've been at like a like a event venue or something and I hear Zombie by the Cranberries play, especially around Halloween just because its name is Zombie. [laughter] It bothers me to no end, man. Like >> I I I kind of forgot, I guess. Um >> yeah, >> I I I didn't know that about the children at all actually. Yeah. >> I just you know their bombs and you know um you know I know it's about the trouble but >> and yeah there was >> I don't know how many between 19 early 1960s and 19 early 90s. >> Yep. >> I don't know on both sides killed each other. The Protestants and the Catholics. I think it was 3,500 people died. >> Yeah. very unfortunate. >> I mean, >> so whenever you hear whenever you hear zombie like when they're playing at like a Halloween party, it's like >> Oh, yeah. Well, now I'll have to reme I mean I'll have to remember that cuz and I knew all I said, you know, it's Dolores over Hidden. >> Yeah. From the Cranberries. >> Yeah. And did she pass away? >> I don't I don't know. I assume so though. Yeah. >> Yeah. Not that old really. Uh and that that was sad. And but when I hear that song, I just like the the music, the beat, and then I, you know, but and I hear the bombs, you know. Yeah. >> But I didn't real know any background to it. >> Yeah. It was um it's very much that song in particular is very much like in the same vein as like fortunate son by Credence. Protest about the Vietnam War. >> Yeah. I love that song. >> Yeah. Zombie. The the the what's in your head zombie. She's not referring to literal zombies. is referring to like mindless perpetrators of violence, which you saw on both sides, right? Right. >> You know, it's very it's very easy to um and I do on occasion, uh just chalk it up to, oh, the English are being jerks again, right? But it's an it's an incredibly incredibly complicated and traumatic and complex time in history that people just don't give the credit it deserves. >> Yeah. Um and a lot of what as you probably have read or heard um a lot of the um at first it was peaceful >> protests in Northern Ireland >> until the the bloody sun they they they killed all these people and the British army did or the the >> police I can't remember >> I mean the British army did a lot to the Irish at the time >> and they had gotten inspiration from the civil rights movement in America. America at the time. No kidding. Yeah. And that's >> So they signal the African-American community and and other groups who were marginalized in the United States still in as late as 1960s. Well, it's long after that even. But you know, and so they got the inspiration. Yep. >> But then of course they had the real hardliners, the rail IRA. Oh yeah. Then they broke because the IRA, you know, they had to, you know, thanks to Senator Mitchell from Maine, they had the peace accords in what, 1995, 1998. And but the rail IRA kept going for a little while. >> I was going to say the real IRA IRA >> called I mean the rail IRA is what they titled. the the the the extremist group. >> Extremist ultimately >> it's kind of reminds me of the there was extremist group in in in right here in Portland. Yep. >> But they the the clan Nail. >> Okay. >> But they went under the name Wolf Tone Association. >> Wait, what was it? >> The Wolf Tone Association. >> Wolf Tone. >> That's scary sounding. >> Wolf Tone was actually an Irish rebel. >> Okay. >> Protestant in 1798 uprising. >> A Protestant rebel. >> Yeah. that the United Irishmen were made up of Protestants and Catholics >> that just banded together. >> Yeah. Fight the British. >> Hence the name United Irishmen. >> Yeah. But after that was so bloody and the the French were uh you know come in to help the Irish. >> Wow. >> And they got one of the fleet of French ships got blown out to sea in a hurricane or whatever. And y >> so and the long shot they lost of course the Irish and then thousands and thousands of people killed on both sides. >> It's it's >> and after that the Protestant Catholic >> that particular union um dissolved >> and and then in 1795 after the battle of the diamond in county Amar which was Catholic defenders versus the Protestants the uh Protestants formed the orange order. >> The orange order. Okay. What's that? So that the loyal orange order is named for William of Orange, >> the Protestant king of England who invaded Ireland and kicked James off the throne in 1689. >> Oh wow. >> And his army went to again Ireland and killed thousands of people. >> Y >> and so the Protestants were proud of that. >> King Billy, you know, the of Orange, which you know, he was from D Holland, but he married >> Oh, he married into the royal family. He married King James daughter who he later tried to kill. >> That's ironic >> cuz he was Catholic became Catholic or went back to Cath Catholicism. >> So it's really just like a So it's really just like the Catholic and the Protestants just going at each other. >> Yeah. And they're both Christians and you know and they're both I mean but it all started at least in Ireland with of course uh King Henry VIII. >> Sure. >> You know he decided to start his own religion because he couldn't get a divorce you know. >> Oh wow. Then he said after that hell I'll just say they you know treason and then he just had started cutting off the other wife's heads you know after that. >> Yeah. >> He said after divorces I I'm going to just go right for [laughter] get rid of them right away. So as as they said uh a lot of Irish men back in the day um they used to say that about they would say to a pro well at least our religion wasn't founded on the bollocks of King Henry VII or Yikes >> or whatever something like that. >> So it got it got pretty it got pretty serious >> bad. Yeah, it got really serious and it just you know um >> and and directly indirectly the Irish and Maine were affected by as I said they formed the Finians they um >> and uh they helped with the 1880 famine in Ireland and the land league which was really big in 1880s >> uh formed by uh Charles Stewart Panell who was a Protestant landlord. >> Sure. >> Became an Irish politician. His grandfather in fact was Commodore Charles Stewart in the of the American Navy. >> Wow. >> But his mother uh grew up in America but his father was from Ireland and Sure. >> He became one of the biggest heroes of the Irish Catholics. He was Pro landlord. >> He he start the land legal trying to give rights back to the Irish. >> Yep. The Irish >> tenant farmers. >> The Irish Catholics. Yeah. Or any tenant farmer. >> Yeah. >> Michael Devett and you know all these big names. And they ca a lot of them came to Portland in the 1880s and 90s and eventually that did work help out the you know and then they had the home rule movement. They wanted home rule for Ireland. Okay. Their own parliament separate from Westminster. >> Ah and that's and then that kind of ultimately is a slippery slope at least. >> Yeah. And then that you know then it was like collapses and then there was 19 >> Easter >> 16 Easter rising. Yeah. >> Yeah. The Easter Rising for sure. Yeah. So anyway, it's a tumultuous history for sure. And I think that it doesn't that doesn't get as much credit as it should in the history books. We talk a lot about the American Civil War, which to its credit is an incredible thing of history to study. You know, I >> I just I just posted a video I just made a video uh Civil War reenacting. I think Civil War the Civil War is incredibly fascinating. >> Yeah. I mean uh a lot of the Irish >> I mean there's there's the whole book on it. >> I know. I mean a lot of the Irish uh you know fought from Poland later joined the Finians right after the war ended that >> and like Tom O'Neal he was Irish nationalist he fought in the sir at 14 years old. >> What 14? >> Yeah. >> What? >> Yeah. They they let me be a drummer boy and then you know and uh he had a saloon down here on Center Street where his buddy John El Sullivan used to drink. >> Okay. >> The famous boxer. So, wrapping up here, um, I could talk to you all evening about this, but >> unfort we talked about a lot. We've talked about some really good stuff. >> I mean, >> everything from the rum rides to hurling to the troubles, the IRA. >> It's endless. >> Yeah. And it's it's truly Ireland has an incredibly fascinating and complex history that I personally believe does not get as much credit as it should. >> Yeah. And oh, and I wanted to say that I mean when you had asked me earlier that I don't know if I mentioned that I got into f American history 1980. >> Yeah. You were eight years old. >> Yeah, I was seven then and studying the presidents of among like a hundred other hobbies. >> Yeah. >> You know, and you know, everything from baseball to Star Wars or whatever, >> of course. But you know then I started collecting uh current events you know um in 1981 Pope >> John Paul II and Ronald Reagan, President Reagan were almost assassinated within three months and then the space shuttle went up. >> Yeah. >> For the first time. So I was really I don't know how why but my mother always said be proud of Irish heritage. >> Sure. And here I am 45 years later and she she never she doesn't can't she never would have believed saying that how far I'd carry her. >> It did. >> So yeah, these books, you know, took over 10 years alto together >> and they are a labor of love. >> Yeah. I never expected I thought well I'll do the Civil War. I got a lot of material already and the more you get digging and reading this. I read hundreds of books. >> Wow. uh you know in over 10 10 10 12 years alto together and because I I started the the civil war book and then had to stop because the history press contacted me >> to do a little book. >> It was 188 pages. They cut me to 45,000 words. >> Wow. >> And I was just like >> I just I'm just getting started here. >> Wait, wait, we're just getting started. >> Yeah. So my original goal was to write the history of Poland Irish from 1662. >> Wow. >> When the first Irishman was here. Yeah. named Tyke. Tyke Clark. >> Ty Clark. >> Tyke. And he's literally listed as Ty in a couple of records and and but he anglicized his name from Ty to Thaddius. >> Oh man. I like I like Tigmore more. >> Ty. Yeah. So he the first known Irishman 1662. And he married Elizabeth Mittton, daughter granddaughter George Cleave. Cle one of the founders of P of Felmouth. >> So I was going to cover follow him all the way up to early 1900s. That's a lot of time. >> I I don't know what I was thinking, but I said, "What?" You know, and then uh Bill Barry, a historian, friend of mine, God, Russ Soul, uh he great friend and historian here in Portland, and him and Herb Adams, another friend of mine, another great historian that they said, "You ought to just do a separate book just on the sir." >> Like, "Oh, yeah. All right. Sounds good. Yeah, that's perfect idea." You know, so here we are >> many years later. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Very good. So I think a good final question because you mentioned that your mother told you to always be proud of your Irish heritage. Say there were folks who were listening to this who are Irish, right? And you know how can the pride of being Irish and being proud of an Irish heritage extend be be beyond the green beer and St. Patrick's Day parade and slugger wearing a green suit. >> Yeah. The shamrockery is >> the shamrockery. Yeah, that's a good word for it. >> That's what they call um well, I mean, I have a lot of friends and family that no, I wouldn't say celebrate their eyes >> as much as it they're involved to some extent. >> Mhm. >> My friend Crystal Latrell and Steve Latrella who's a poet, they're good friends of my, you know, she's another great genealogologist and local historian. And um we we're involved somehow or other all year long. So one thing if people are you know interested is to look up their own family history which so many people have done now especially after DNA came out. >> Are there are there resources within Portland to do that? >> Well yeah the main >> Yeah. The main Yeah. You mentioned >> I mean start there. I mean you can go main historical society and Portland Public Library Portland room. Uh U DNA's really open it up. >> Yeah. Ancestry.com. Yeah. that that that I mean I got DNA results back that were shocking to I mean you know that >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean I found out that I'm not a Barker number one. >> Oh wow. >> My great great-grandfather from Rockland we always figured his father George Barker who fought in so >> was his father and then my cousin David Barker did a a Y DNA test. That's your father's father's father father all the way. He came back with like five people named Spear. No barkers. >> Oh no. >> And we're like, so within a few days, I figured out that my real great great-grandfather was Lewis Augustus Spear, whose first cousin was U. Major Ellis Spear, who was at Gettsburg with Joshua Chamberlain. >> Oh, was he in the the 20th Main? >> 20th M. >> So he was my first cousin whatever generations removed. >> Wow. >> That was just a shock. first of all and the spears came from uh County Dair to Massachusetts and then Maine in the 1700s. >> Wow. >> And uh then I found a um that you know they were Protestant Irish probably Scottish Irish originally and >> but one of their daughters down the line married a a Fitzgerald. Wow. >> Who whose father was from County Limmerick and fought in the revolution and he was a Catholic and uh John Fitzgerald and I like what and that's what my father said. I know my father's got county Gway ancestors and my mother does. My father's grandma was a Burke. >> They were from Gway. Oh wow. But I didn't know on my father's side. I have a fifth greatgrandfather who was in the revolution who was an Irish Catholic buried in St. Patrick's Cemetery where I had been many times in Newcastle, Maine. And you just never knew. >> Never knew. And that's all because of DNA. >> So genealogy is absolutely fascinating. >> It never ends. Yeah. I mean it's a giant jigsaw puzzle. It just goes on and on. Absolutely. And if you really get into it like some of us >> people, you know, get a little carried away, but I mean I'm, you know, I like trying to track down every descendant of my fourth great grandparents. Sure. >> From Gway and Claire and Cork. >> And it's, you know, it it's endless. >> Yeah. And um you know a lot of times people have uh information or old photographs that other branches of the family didn't have. So started in the 1980s I started contacting all these distant relatives all over the United States and Canada and Ireland. Yep. >> And and until I finally met them in Ireland in 93 and um >> uh >> you never know what you know. So that's why I've always tracked down all the branches. Some people just focus on one or two lines. >> Yeah. But you never know. You have to track them all. I mean, me personally, because of my grandfather who got them from his his father or aunt, I have the a 10 type of my great great-grandfather from Halif Hams Plains outside of Halifax. >> Nice. >> Uh from 1870s. And I have a picture this big of the house my great-grandfather grew up in with 10. Isn't that fascinating? 10 sisters. And I got a picture of his my grandfather's grandmother, Mary Deian Gillan, uh, who was a great-grandmother, my mother Mary Gillan. And sure, I have a pictures there. I'm the only one that has those photographs. And that they're my great great-grandparents. And they have >> thousands of descendants. And I'm the only one that has those pictures. I know. No one's ever >> because you did that work. Yeah. >> Because I talked to my I I started interviewing all four of my grandparents. >> Nice. I was real close to all four grandparents. So I was lucky enough to interview them till they passed away and talk to them and get all this oral history which is and then I got oral history from their aunts and uncles and that oral history was has proved to be pretty accurate and um >> that would have been all gone if I didn't start. So >> but I you know >> I I meet a lot of people who don't start till their 50s 60s 70s 80s. >> So start early. >> Yeah. And then uh if you can start earlier, you don't have to get carried away, but uh you know, and a lot more people doing that I think today for a lot of reasons. And um >> you know, get the oil history when you can if you can. Um >> excellent >> before the you know, generations pass away and >> yeah, be sure to be sure to really connect with. >> So that's one way I c not involved in my Irish heritage year round. >> Absolutely. you know, but I like Irish music and >> there's some really good ones. >> Irish pups. >> You listen to Ross Gregor Adams. >> He's a local he's a local guy. He's got really really >> you know um um >> Troy um Bennett. >> I think I've heard the name Troy Bennett. >> Uh oh my I'm sorry I just forgot the name of his Irish band. Celtic band. Um >> nice. >> Sorry. >> No. No. It's all right. >> I got too many things names in my head right now. >> Troy Bennett. Yeah. But definitely give Ross Gregor Adams a listen. >> Ross Greger Adams. >> Yeah. He's a local guy. He does have to remember that. Yeah, >> he does it he does it at rerout a lot. >> Rer. Yeah, >> reroute. Listen, reroute fun games is great. Not Ryan Boru by any stretch of the means, but it's >> it's pretty Yeah, it's nice is not like um any real Irish pubs left in Portland. No >> area. I mean, >> what about Ruskies? Is Ruskies? >> Well, that was an Irish Well, it wasn't an Irish pub. It was a pub back going back hundred years and Irish immigrants went there all the time. Okay. A lot of local Irish right till now or they come back once in a while to go there. >> Yep. >> Not just Irish but whoever grew up in the West End. >> Sure. >> And um I don't know I forget how they got the name Ruskies but used to be called the White Eagle. >> I was going to say isn't Ruskies like a Russian. >> Yeah. Like Ruskies and a friend of mine Steve he's like oh that should be go back to the White Eagle. That's a better name. >> It's a pretty cool name. >> Yeah. And that was you know owned by the McGllinchi that building in the early 1900s. So it probably was a bootlegging place 120 years ago. >> Comes full circle, doesn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So um yeah, I mean the Griffin Club as you mentioned and there was Brian Buu of course RA and there was a couple other Irish pubs that didn't last long. >> Sure. >> Um Slancha >> Slancha >> remember that? >> Was there Was there an Irish pub name? >> Yeah. Right near the the um the old Portland Public Market. >> Oh, >> Sancha. Yeah, that was around for a few years. I went there one St. Patrick's Day. Oh man. >> But yeah, I mean unfortunately a lot of them they didn't make it. >> Yep. >> You know, um >> the long the long and the short of it is don't let anything happened to Brian Boru. That's that's just kind of my my personal thoughts. No, u someone who was a a lawyer and a architectural historian um contacted me and asked me about the history of the building and she had already done a lot of research um you know after it closed and uh um a lot of people say well that's not really you know it's not really historical. What do you mean the the Barry brothers from Ireland and they I mean they grew up in Gorser. They had a a saloon there and in the back of the saloon on the first floor was a boxing ring. >> That's about as Yeah, that's about as Irish as it gets. >> I know Mike Barry was a famous boxer in Maine. And right there is history. That's just from 1880s. And the building was there back before Civil War. And um so I mean it's one of three as I said three buildings left on Senator >> Gorum's Corner which was >> in Gor's corner. out >> for sure. >> And John Ford, of course, looks over there where his father was a big bootlegger. John Feny, >> you know. >> Oh, Binis. That was another one. >> Yeah, Binis. >> That was I helped them, you know, open that. They No kidding. They took some of my research and artist from Ireland painted on the walls, >> you know, when you walk in and I mean there's a >> quote that I made up for a character in a novel of mine >> uh right up front there by Declan Mcamera. >> That's so special. And and that the saying was they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. >> Naturally, they had nowhere to go but up. And >> that's it. >> And that was what the and that Declan and Mner talking about the Irish of Poland. But that could obviously >> that's >> not just Irish a thousand other immigrant groups. >> Many other people. >> Yeah. That wherever they settled, they they were at the bottom. So they had nowhere else to go but up. >> And they did. >> And they did. So many did. Not all, of course, but that's life. But um >> so many did, >> you know. That's really wonderful. >> Anyways, yeah, >> we could talk about this. >> I know. Great talking to you. We could go on. >> Yeah, this has been fantastic. >> We'll get some Guinness. We'll stay here till midnight. >> I know. Absolutely. I could I could get a pint of Guinness or a little bit of um Oh, what's that Irish cider? Magners. >> Oh, Magnes. Yeah. >> Oh, man. If I had a pint of Magners. I I drink both at the same time. Snake Bite. Snake Bite. >> It's actually really good. >> Oh, yeah. I don't think I've ever had it. I've had Magnus and I've had the a Murphy's. And >> so, let me ask you. So I I don't I don't claim to be Irish. I used to be like super involved and like a and then I like really looked into it and I'm like this is a bit of a caricature. But I got to ask you, right? Is drinking gininners is drinking Guinness mixed with magners like an affront to the Irish people? >> I don't know. >> Should I stop doing it? Like >> I know that Irish um people uh Irish immigrants today and in the United States, >> a lot of them A lot of Irish Americans don't like the Irish the word Irish carb bomb. >> Yeah, I don't like that. Irish bomb drinker. I don't I haven't heard that in years now. So maybe was it Guinness and Jerger or something? >> Yeah, something like that. Definitely gone. Yeah, it's gone down the wayside. That phrase >> that phrase. Yeah, cuz ice cream. >> It's just not a It's >> So yeah, I mean that was a big stereotype and sometimes self-fulfilling that the Irish were all a bunch of drunks. But yeah, >> I mean a lot people had problem with alcohol. All immigrant groups, all people, Yankees, >> Yankee, you know, the unfortunately, you know, the Irish were uh >> kind of publicized their drinking because sure >> they, you know, they were in the pubs and walking down street drunk and all you had to do is have an Irish name and you were brought to jail >> literally. I mean, >> yeah. And they would, you know, the the sons of Yankees or prominent families in Poland, they wouldn't put, they wouldn't even print their names in the paper >> 1850s and 60, they would say because of their the family something, we will not print their names, but they splashed the Irish in the paper from 1840s to the 1930s. >> Excellent. >> And um but anyways, they're drinking. So yeah, >> so they were on, you know, out in public having a good time. Yeah. >> But where the Yankees are in their big mansion, the row houses, drinking their wine and their cider, hard cider getting drunk, too, but they weren't out, you know, >> having a good time. >> Yeah. But they they would look down on the Irish. >> Sure. >> Oh, you know, so the uh stereotypes are still there, you know, unfortunately. >> Yep. >> I like that. I like I really like the phrase they were in the wrong place. They were in the wrong time. Nowhere to go but up. >> Yeah. And honestly, I I we could have this conversation. I I think we could have this conversation for hours. Get >> maybe we come back. I mean, I come back sometime. >> That sounds great. I would absolutely. >> I mean, whenever, you know. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Um, it has been fantastic talking to you and let's definitely keep in touch. I love your books. I definitely want to read them. >> So, uh, definitely if you ever have a free copy, let me know. >> Yeah. Yeah. This is my last set I got to sell and then I have to uh order a new >> somewhat revised edition here in a couple weeks. But um >> let's keep in touch. >> Yeah. Oh, if you have any, you know, you got my email and everything. Yes. And if you have any questions, >> you know, oh, and my next version of these books, yeah, I'm having my I don't know why I didn't do it at the beginning, but I'm having my email in there so people can contact me if they have questions or or tell me stories about their ancestors or whatever. >> Excellent. So, you can get them in the books. Yeah. So, so another, you know, something went down the road. Oh. Oh, and I wanted to mention my next I'm working on a novel, but the other >> is a history book of the Irish American community during World War II. >> Oh, I can't wait to read that. >> But yeah, and that because my grandfather was in D-Day, my mother's father and son of Irish immigrants. I mean, >> uh, I want the stories of my parents. I mean, that, you know, they're all but gone as we know, World War II generation. Sure. But I want to get stories of from people in the area whose parents or grandparents were in the war. Not just the ones of veterans, but the homeront, the civilians, the, you know, the people that worked at Bath Iron Shipyard building the >> the battle cruisers here in South Portland during the war. And um >> I mean I I'm going to try to do limit to the three four years. >> Sure. I'm not going to do it led up to World War II. >> I, you know, I can't do another 1,200 page >> or 600 page. >> Uh, so I'm in a little while, you know, probably a month or two, I'm going to um put on my uh genealogy Facebook pages. Uh, >> excellent. >> You know, asking for stories about people about World War II people. >> Very good. Awesome. >> Well, thank you again. >> Yeah. Thank you very much. >> Thank you so much for being on Between the Peers. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This was awesome. Let's keep in touch. And uh yeah, I definitely got to make it down to the Irish Heritage Center at some point. >> Yeah, let me know sometime. I can meet you there. As I said, I uh we're there every Friday, 10 to two and >> Excellent. I'll come check it out. >> Right. >> All right. Thank you so much. Um thank you all for watching. Uh the first time I'm on video. Uh hopefully this keeps going. We'll see. Um uh have a great evening everybody. And as always, it's not going to stop just because I'm on video. You know I have to say it. Stay weird, Portland.