Being Fat and Fit Is Objectively Better Than Being Skinny and Unfit Here's the Data | Mind Pump 2928

All right, this might be controversial, but it's true. You ready? Being fat and fit is better than being skinny and unfit. We're going to go through the data. We're going to break it down. We're going to explain to you that it's actually objectively better. >> Justin's been trying to tell us this for a long time. >> Fatties. [laughter] Fatties. >> So, I think for before we get into the conversation, we got to preface this with uh just some clarity, okay? Uh being over fat. So having a a body fat percentage that's over a particular percentage and when you look at the data for men you start to see this around 20% for women you might see this around 30% give or take depending on the person it does have an effect on your health. Okay so regardless of your fitness level having uh excessive body fat beyond a certain point no matter what will have a negative effect on your health. So, what we're not saying is that it's equal. Everything's equal. It doesn't matter. But what we are saying is between the two, just comparing those two. >> If you're overweight and fit, you're doing way better in most metrics, if not all metrics, than someone who is underweight and unfit. And the reason why we're talking about this is often times we chase the underweight, unfit look because we think that's what's going to make us uh happier when in fact the data shows it's not true whatsoever. Well, that's a a a large range, right, for for men to be able to go all the way to 20%, women go all the way to 30%. That gives you a lot of flexibility. And so, yeah, I would I mean, in personal experience, I think I've felt the healthiest in the mid teens. >> Yep. >> You know, where I have the best energy, the best sleep, the best overall strength. >> Also, uh the the most easy to have a balanced lifestyle, too, as far as I can have the occasional drink with the wife at dinner. I don't have to be tracking and weighing everything. It's a I think a relatively easy place to kind of manage and stay. Once you start trying to get yourself into for a man single digits, it's uh it becomes a job to to stay that lean. And then I would argue that I am not the strongest. I don't sleep the best. I'm not the healthiest. About the only thing working for me at that point is the aesthetic piece. What you look like? >> Well, and even that we can even uh debate. So when you look at the data on longevity, okay, the category uh of people, the categories I should say of people that have the worst longevity uh metrics, okay, are the very unfit and very obese and the frail >> and unfit. In fact, frailty is a higher risk factor uh in many cases, especially as you get older. So frailty is defined as like underweight and weak, right? No strength, weak. that has some of the worst mortality metrics that we see. Um, and so it's important to understand uh the two of them. Now, with longevity, when you look at the data, it's pretty wild because I pulled up some studies. I pulled up some of the best studies I could find uh around this. And here's what they find. Uh being unfit people in every BMA, BMI category had roughly two to three times higher risk of all cause mortality. So, being unfit anywhere increases your risk of all cause mortality um uh pretty significantly. fit, overweight, obese individuals have risks similar to or in many cases, this is a meta analysis, better than unfit, normal weight individuals. So, if you're a guy and you're walking around 15% body fat, so decent leanness, you're not overweight, but you know, you just go to work, you just go to work, come home, you're not like working out, you're not fit. a guy who's 50 pounds heavier. Okay, so 50 additional pounds of body fat. Okay, which is a significant amount, >> but who's also fit, strong, and has some cardiovascular uh fitness, has similar or better uh uh longevity metrics than you do. Okay. So, that just goes to show how far being fit goes for people when it comes to longevity. >> 50 pounds. >> Yeah. >> Is this like our powerlifter kind of archetype? >> I wouldn't use that as an example because >> still extreme. it. Yes. When you when we talk about like competitive athletes, >> we're now sacrificing. >> I mean, maybe a weekend warrior. >> Yes. So, what the data is >> That's probably a better way to say somebody who is like a competitor competing kind of like heavy lifter. >> I'm glad you said that because in the data, what they're not uh what they're not showing or what they're not using is elite performance, right? >> So, when I say fit, I'm not talking about like I do triathlons or like I'm like the strongest guy in my gym type of deal. you lift and and you're active. You're active. You work out uh consistently. You're you're decently fit in comparison. >> You're you're I want to go back to the 50 lbs you said. That's relative to what you say use a 15% uh I'm I'm picturing my buddy who weighs probably about 170 lbs to 180 lbs and and probably manages himself between 15 to 18% body fat and doesn't work out. Yeah. >> So, he just he doesn't really eat good. He moves. He has a physical job that he does. He moves a lot and um you know doesn't obviously doesn't crazy overeat and he's got a somewhat active uh lifestyle but doesn't doesn't exercise, doesn't strength train. >> Yeah. >> His at his body size 170ish >> 50 more pounds. >> So uh it's not a perfect um comparison because if someone if your buddy did work out and exercise >> Yeah. >> Uh he'd also have more muscle on his frame for >> sure. Yeah. The muscle really is the determining factor here for the most part. >> Strength. Yeah. Well, it's fitness. So, I'm glad you said that. >> Well, I guess that's a So, I guess that's where I'm trying to get with this. I'm trying I'm trying >> I'm giving a number just to kind of paint a picture. >> Yeah. >> But what the data shows is obese. Okay. So, there's overweight and obese and then there's extreme obesity. So, we're not there yet, but overweight/obese >> Yeah. >> fit is better uh is the same or better than normal weight person. So, you're carrying a lot of body fat, but you're still also carrying a decent amount of muscle, which means And you're fit, >> which means he would have to be at So, okay, the obese meter tips at what for men? 25. >> Yeah. Uh, they don't go by body fat percentage. They go by BMI, but let's just say he's at like, >> let's say he's at 24. Let's say he's at 25. So, let's say he's 15 now. He went up to 25% body fat. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you put >> But he's But he's athletic now. Now, he's >> running. So, so the 50 lbs he probably puts on >> uh 20 muscle, 30 fat, >> maybe. Maybe. >> So, just to >> I don't know what body fat percentage that would put him at, but let's just say he's 50 lbs heavier on the scale. >> Yeah. >> And his body fat percentage went up to 25%. >> Yeah. >> But now he can move, he he can run, he can lift, >> uh he's he's as good or a lot of the data shows better >> than he is now. And I'm going to argue he's better in other categories. Not just >> the number one indicator there or the the one the the biggest needle mover there I would think is is the the lean tissue and what it does for you metabolically >> 100% >> from insulin sensitivity from storage >> get into it. >> Yeah. Like that that is I mean >> one of the one of the best parts of uh all the years of lifting when I when I look back now is the metabolic flexibility that I have today. the ability to be able to eat out of bounds a little bit and and literally so I could have I just had did this last week. So last week I was I was pretty low calorie. I could see how depleted I was. I was dropped like six seven pounds on the scale. Also the wife always comments you're looking skinny. I don't like I'm like relax. I'm just depleted right now. She says that to worry I'll eat a sandwich and you'll see a difference. >> My wife would never say she knows your button. >> Yeah. Yeah. She knows. She knows. So she knows I've worked through that. So it's okay. Right. So I always I said honey I'm not. I said the I'm I'm down a few pounds, but it's mostly water and glycogen. >> Now you're leaving your shirt on. What do you guys get into? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] My Winnie the Poo thing. Double shirt. Yeah. You know, that's how I do that. >> Turn the lights off. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But I mean, we So, then we go we had the, you know, we had the the car event this last weekend. So, we we were at hotels eating out, had drinks, did a thing, and I even had I told you we ordered that uh that movie thing, the Yeah. Whatever. So, I had desserts. I had done that in a while. and just I mean everything filled out and she's >> and it's not body fat. >> Oh yeah, it's not body fat. I didn't do Yeah, I didn't do anything. The next day she's like, "Oh my god, you look Oh, you look amaz." She g me I'm like, "Yeah, I just ate a bunch of calories and filled out all those muscle buildings." And what you were looking at or commenting on 4 days before is what it looks like when I stay low calorie for a while and deplete everything. It's just wild that. And why I'm bringing this up is because had I not if I didn't have those muscle bellies, I didn't have that muscle I worked all that extra eating on a day like that goes overspills and goes into storing body fat where the person who's put on 20 lb of muscle now have these giant like uh vessels of storage that the person without those 20 pounds doesn't have. And to be clear, when you look again, >> I know I'm oversimplifying, but trying to make it >> but you painted a very clear picture and and again to be clear when you look at the data we're look okay lean body mass is very important but what's more important is fit lean body mass okay because when you look at this the the studies on like mortality risk or longevity what they're testing is the output it's strength or it's V2 they're not looking at you have this much muscle on your body now having more muscle often times most of the time translates to better fitness, better strength, better mobility, >> but it has to be active. >> But it's got to be fit. Yeah. >> Is what it is. Because you could have somebody with with just genetically more muscle but out of shape. Yeah. >> Totally unfit and they're not going to get the protective benefits >> as somebody who has less muscle, let's say, but it's fit muscle. Yeah. >> It's active muscle. That's the big That's the big difference. >> Right. Right. Because you're because there's another layer to what I said, too, where I'm actually going and putting that muscle to work all week, which also is expending a lot more than it would if you do. Yeah. So, it's like there's you have these these these larger storage vessels that are also active storage vessels that need even more energy cuz you're going to go put them to work. So, it's like this it's a double win. >> This is also why too you hear us communicate this on especially with so many callers, our our female callers that want to lean out or lose body fat is to build into the body you want versus trying to cut into the body you want. Far better off. quality of life is better because uh you're you know trying to maintain being underweight >> uh and also being unfit, we'll just call it frailty. That's not a very good quality of life. First of all, you're first off often time unless you have dis some kind of uh disease or eating disorder, which is a whole separate category, but and a lot of this we could say maybe tips into this, but there's a lot of people who simply restrict. Now, they they might not be clinically diagnosed as having eating disorder, but they're they're they're consistently afraid of gaining weight, so they just kind of restrict themselves. They don't really work out much. They like the fact that they're quote unquote skinny, but they're frail. Their quality of life is way worse than the same version of them who, let's say, has 10% more body fat, but is also working out fit. That brings tons of other things like energy and all that stuff. But also, the flexibility of like I'm not so afraid of being an extra vulnerable. I mean I even to like any kind of like virus or um you know obviously it's going to affect your bones to that level where you know other tissue gets affected because you're not expressing uh you know that that resistance against force and so yeah you're you're kind of leaving yourself susceptible for all kinds of uh you know potential injuries and sickness. The worst category of people uh as defined by people who have the highest risk of complications from surgery or chronic illness are people who are frail. >> Yep. >> It's the worst. >> You're going in to get surgery and you're frail. Uh-oh. >> Or you get a major uh you get a big illness and you're already frail. >> Recovering is is a nightmare. >> It's not good. And let's also look let's look again. This is just just numbers, you guys. If you look at the the the percentage of people who get diabetes or heart disease or cancer who are normal weight or underweight, okay, because we know that being overfat independent of anything else. Now, if you're fit, it really does a lot for this, but just to a certain extent being over fat uh is a risk factor risk factor for diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. We know this. And yet there is a significant percentage, it's not a majority, but it's a significant percentage to the tune of tens of millions of people in America who are this who are normal weight or underweight who still get heart disease, cancer, and diabetes. >> And they're all unfit. All of them. >> You know, you you keep saying uh frailty, right? And I think most people's minds automatically go to like the old >> Yeah. >> old. >> We got a lot of frail, not old people. Well, do you so do you remember do you guys remember the first time you experienced this? I was only I was like I want to say I was like 22. So I'm only like two years into being a personal trainer. And uh I got this I think she was a um was she a cheerleader? She was a cheerleader or a model. Real pretty real pretty thin real thin pretty girl. And I'm taking her body, she's hired me for training and uh I'm taking her body fat percentage and I thought I was doing something wrong because of how high her body fat percentage was >> cuz she looked very skinny, right? And and yet I kept I had no muscle >> and I kept I kept doing it over and over like you know trying to keep cool like I knew what I was doing. I'm going like this isn't look this isn't adding up. First time I'd ever experienced that from that direction. And I experienced the other direction too where somebody was like super ripped and I thought they were going to be bigger too. So it's been I remember both those big extreme examples of someone like that and and I remember asking her about her diet and she ate like >> celery. >> Yeah. >> Like to keep her weight Yeah. She under all forever to just to keep her her weight down like that. >> She was hiring me to help her build some muscle and stuff, >> but I couldn't believe how high of a body fat percentage somebody so skinny could be. Mhm. >> And it and it it blew my mind. That was the first time experienced. I was like 22. I've obviously experienced it other other times. I've had many >> and I had so I've told this story a long time ago if you guys remember this, but I got to train um >> what one of the 49ers wives. Uh >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And he a Samoan guy. And he has Samoan wife. It was the first time ever I was so like I've gotten as we all probably have really good at looking at someone and being able to put the scale within probably 5 or 10 pounds. It's a trainer skill. >> Yeah. Yeah. And >> I would crush those circus. >> Yeah. I'm so good at that. I'm so And I've gotten really really dial. And I'm also smart enough to know if I get one of my female clients on there. If I'm I'm guessing I'm going to undershoot. I'm going to undershoot a little bit so I don't get hit. You know what I'm saying? And I'll never forget this girl gets on here, right? She's a smelling chick. And I could tell she's, you know, she's pretty thick, you know? And I'm like, uh, you know, in my head I'm going, she's probably 170 or so, but I'm going to start at like 155, 160. You know what I'm saying? So I I put the things not moving. I'm like, >> slide it over five more. >> Slide it over some more. She's 201. Okay. But her body fat percentage is crazy lean. She's in She's in like the lower like athletic percentile. And when she lift her shirt up for me, you're thinking abs. >> Yeah. But just a brick house, dude. And like so wild to see that. But just shows you how different body types and different levels of weight like weight does is so this girl's 200 lb but super lean but just all muscle. >> Well, there's also this piece too which is and how many times we have callers I'll just illustrate this. How many times we have callers where we tell them to increase their cal. First off, it's often we get a little bit of a self- selection bias of people that tend to restrict, right? Because they're fitness uh enthusiasts. They listen to the show. They call in for help. All we do is have them oftentimes bump their calories and they come back and what do they say? I've got way more energy. >> It's transformative. >> I feel so different. Yeah. >> Calories, ladies and gentlemen, is energy. >> Yeah. >> If you're not taking in enough, if you're taking in just enough to survive because you're constantly restricting yourself, >> you don't have extra energy to give you uh confidence. Yeah. >> Or creativity to build >> or libido or energy to do anything else. You feel crappy. a lot and tired a lot and maybe depressed or anxious a lot and it might just be you're not taking in enough nutrients. Yeah. >> And we just had a caller earlier, a guy, >> one of the biggest reasons for plateaus. >> It is. And we had a guy just on who we bumped his calories a thousand and he comes back on. He's like, "Oh my god, I'm way more energy." >> Didn't gain a pound on the scale. >> Didn't gain a pound on the scale. Uh what did that extra >> 60 days of a,000 calorie increase? >> That's right. And if you're not taking in enough calories and you're tired just doing your regular day, god forbid you add exercise on top of that, >> right? >> And now you don't get any of the benefits of exercise, you're not fueling yourself. And exercise is the most powerful anti-depressant that we know of. So being fat and fit gives you more energy and a better outlook and a better attitude and a better mood. >> You're not going to get any of the benefits of the exercise if you're not feeding it, giving it the nutrients to recover. So yeah, it's it's kind of futile. >> You also have less pain. Yeah, >> being frail will make you hurt more. Period. End of story. Risk of injury goes through the roof. Your CNS is constantly trying to protect your joints because of the instability caused by your frailty um because you're not feeding yourself enough. And so you're moving in ways that aren't optimal and you wonder why these you get repeated injuries or tweaks or pain. >> Uh being fit and strong uh of course with the proper training >> means you have way less pain. But that look is so such a powerful force. >> I'm glad you brought that up, Justin, because I looked up the data. How much does looking beautiful actually contribute to happiness when you separate it from uh other factors, right? Uh because they could say looking beautiful makes it more likely that you'll attract somebody who'll want to date you. So there's relationship value. there's uh you know when you separate all that out just looking better uh versus looking not as good um which we'll which I'm going to argue anyway but let's just say that's objectively true >> we'll dispel that >> uh it's actually a low uh contributor to happiness in other words it barely budges the numbers so if you're a six and you spend all your time and energy to get up to a nine >> you're going to go up maybe a little bit >> is it fair though to tease those other things out >> it is >> why >> it is totally fair >> why is that fair >> because If you >> can you point, let me let me put this. How much of that, which we're going to get to, is a result of how you view yourself versus uh how other people actually view you. In other words, >> is your confidence and you going out and you talking with people and your energy and the fact that you feel better cuz you're stronger and the fact that you have more flexibility with your diet, so you're going out with people and you're socializing. How much of that plays a role in you having friends? >> Can you measure that projected confidence? >> 100%. >> I mean, that's a fair argument. Yeah, it's a fair. It's hard to tease that out though in my opinion just because you got to if somebody and again playing the devil's advocate with you because you got somebody who improves their self from a six to a nine. Um we know what it does in sales. We know what it does for attracting a mate all those other things which then also make you could make you happier too. So it's hard to just completely let me throw >> now in a perfect world. Okay. Uh, and you know, and I think about this as a father, the number one thing that I could give my son is confidence. Like I want to give him self-confidence. Forget what everybody else thinks. Like be be confident in who you are >> and and then be that having that trickles all the other things, right? You so I know the value of that, but to just take away to to to separate someone going from a six to nine to how that improves their relationship values with friends or or relationship with friends with the opposite sex with all. Let me throw a wrench at that. What you're saying, I'm going to throw a wrench at that machine. Uh, you attract a mate based on your beauty. >> Mhm. >> Are you going to have a good relationship? >> If it's just based on your beauty, that's your number one. This is it. >> Well, and again, that's not fair to say that either is to say like it we we all use our eyes, okay? Those of us that are not blind to to the first thing, but when you first saw your wife, you didn't see her brain. you didn't you saw she was attractive which made you then communicate and talk to her which then led you to all the other beautiful things about >> but again I'll add to that the happiest marriages not to go off on a tangent the happiest marriages are people in their 60s who have been together for >> Yeah I don't I don't disagree with that you build you build your love has grown you build a relationship but let's be honest if Jessica was a two you wouldn't have approached her >> well so again let me let me add to that when we talk I mean you would >> well let me let me let me let me add to that when we talk about this what we see what we're >> really dark I know what [laughter] we typically What we typically consider is like extremes. We think of like extreme beauty, extreme not good-look. Most people are somewhere in the middle and devoting all their time and energy to try to accomplish what they think looks good, which results often times in skinny and unfit does not contribute to happiness. And when you add everything else up, contributes to being less happy. But let's talk about the objectiveness of the beauty. Let me give you guys a scenario. A 29% body fat woman with muscle versus a 20% body fat woman who is frail >> all day. Yeah. All day. >> Which one's more attractive? >> Yeah. Give me the one that that has shape to her for sure. And and they do this with women. When women look at pictures of men, 10% frail, uh 18, 19, 20% muscle. Women almost always, if not every time, pick the heavier, fatter guy who's got some muscle. So, it's also false. This belief that we have is false. And people who who restrict themselves to this skinny, frail kind of place have this belief that maybe it's making them look better. >> No, I I mean I don't I don't disagree with that. I think that we I think everyone has not everyone that's an oversimplification, but I think a lot of people have a distorted view totally of their own their own their own body. >> I also think it creates behaviors within that parameter. So if I'm like restricting restricting and then like you're going to bleed that into your relationship like the way you're interacting is going to affect you know the longevity of that relationship. >> Yeah. And again just again we'll talk extremes although 99.9% of people are not in the extremes who are listening but we know very we know some very beautiful people in the fitness space uh who have lots of followers. They're the extremes. Nobody looks like them. Okay. They're they're they're popular because of how they look and but a lot of them are very unhealthy. >> Yeah. miserable >> and miserable. Yeah. >> So my my point is I don't think it's objectively more beautiful. I can make that argument all day. But even if it was, it doesn't contribute to what you think is going to contribute. >> And I think the the direction of this is like look like if you're like really >> I think I think we need a better study because I think like >> I think there's also a lot of potential on the other end. >> I I think I think it like it moves the I think I think it's a lot like the wealth curve. >> I think like the difference between poverty and having all your needs met. Yeah. >> Is lifechanging. >> The difference between having all your needs met and being a millionaire and then a millionaire to a billionaire incremental. Hardly anything. And the the sacrifice, the work, the effort, and everything to do all those things, diminishing return. >> Arguably more miserable because you get there and it doesn't make you happy. I think the the uh whatever sexiness curve, whatever you want to call it, >> is similar to that. It's like going from completely out of shape, not taking care of yourself, ugly, we'll say, to like relatively attractive. Like you're like how about you just say how about you just say fit and healthy. >> Okay. Fit and healthy. >> That's right. >> Right. So that say relatively attractive. Okay. >> Because that's that's a result of being fit and healthy. >> Right. So so that versus you getting cosmetic surgery getting shredded to 9% like >> I so if any return very incremental arguably probably negative return from I think it it probably follows something like that. >> And again here's the point like and I'll ask you guys this question. If you could snap your fingers and make one of these things true, which one do you think would make uh America or the world healthier, uh make everybody uh keep everybody at a relatively higher body fat percentage but really fit or just get everybody skinny? >> Get rid of seed oils. [laughter] >> The world. [laughter] So anyway, do anything. And I guess the the the at the end of this is this, like if you worked out and you ate >> to become more fit and healthy, you'd be way happier and you'd get better results. And the side effect would be you'd actually look better anyway. >> Yeah. >> If you just focus on those things. And that's why I open this with the controversial being fat and fit better. >> I like it. I like that it's controversial. But uh >> of course you like it. [laughter] >> That's my wheelhouse, you guys. Be happy. Eat food, you know. >> Yeah. [laughter] Enjoy yourself. Jeez. >> Anyway, I got Speaking of workouts. >> Did [snorts] you guys watch the video Adam sent of I think it's Hotti Chup Chopan. Am I saying his name right? >> Oh god. >> Did you guys see that? >> What? >> You know what I didn't do was I didn't do the math. Did you do the math? I didn't >> How many 25 pound was it 25 pound plates? >> Yeah. 25. >> You didn't see that? >> Go in our group text. >> Yeah. >> And pull up. >> You saw it, right? >> I did see it. Yes. I came across it and you know it it I it hooked me because I was just I'm >> it's in my opinion there's a few times in bodybuilding history when a bodybuilder did something that's legendary in the gym that everybody talks about like one of them was >> Tom Platt squatting 135 for 30 minutes straight. >> Oh my god. >> That was one or when he did 315 for like 50 reps. It was like a couple where Tom Platt did something insane. >> This goes up there. >> Quadzilla. >> Look. Okay. Look. >> Give me the number. How many plates are there? >> So there's a 25. Then they add a 25. >> Keep count them up. I never counted them up. >> Three. >> They're just adding 45s. >> Bro, he does. He does. >> 35s or 25s? What are those? >> 25. >> 25s. What? >> So they keep adding 25. How many he does? I don't know. We're going to have to >> Doug, can you count the plates? >> Looks like eight or nine right now. >> Dude, what kind of bar is that? >> So now Oh, it gets better. Ready? >> Bro, he does this two or three times. >> So >> non-stop. >> Nonstop. >> What? So, what he's doing for people who are not watching this uh on YouTube >> and they're peeling it off. >> This is a bodybuilder. >> So, he does it like two or three times down the ladder. >> He didn't stop. He goes back up again. >> He does squats. He's got a bar. It's a Smith machine. They're adding How many total 25s they go to? >> Uh 20. There's 20 total plates. The Smith machine. So, up to 500 lb. >> So, he's doing one rep with 125. Another rep with an additional. So, he goes all the way up to 10 plates on each side. Then they take one off and he does a rep with each one all the way down. Then they add them and he goes all the way up. Then they take them off and he goes all the way down. He does like two or three rounds of a rep. >> So much cooler if it was a real squat. >> This can't pyramid that, bro. You [laughter] can't pyramid that, bro. Not just talk crap about what he's doing. >> No, you cannot [laughter] talk crap about that. You cannot talk crap about that. >> This is the This is This is definitely legendary. >> Yeah. I don't think I could do that with two and a halfs. I mean, [laughter] I'm dead serious. If you put two and a halfs all the way up on each side like that many that many body weightight squats we get most >> I'm not alone in this. >> That is uh it's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> I wanted to I So I didn't >> I mean the Yeah, his legs explode. That's just crazy. It's a feet of strength that is just >> Doug, you're the one with all the the tools over [laughter] there. What is the What is the math on that real quick? So you said 10 on each side 11 on each side. >> 10 on that's 500 lb. >> So wow. So he's working up to 500 lb down to 100. So it goes from 100 to 50. So all the way to 500 and then down in increments of you know how insane that is. >> He starts at a it's essentially he starts at almost 100, goes incrementally up to 500, incrementally down to 100, incrementally up to 500 several times and does a rep each each each time along the way. Insane a lot. >> That is crazy. >> Yeah. >> Have you got what's what would you Okay, I got to ask you guys this. >> Tell me the most legendary thing you've ever done. >> I haven't done anything legendary this. Nothing cool. >> Well, I know Justin has. You're right. I know you haven't. Let's ask Justin. [laughter] >> [ __ ] you. I don't want to brag, dude. I've done some pretty cool tea bar roast stuff. [laughter] I took my shirt off. I've done some cool tea bar roast. >> I took my shirt off and some girl said something. >> Oh, stop it. >> All right. Look, Justin, you've done some for sure. I have one for myself, but I got to hear yours first because I won't say mine if yours is just so crazy. >> Well, I don't know. I don't even know what I would attribute to that other than like the PRs like I've done back in the day. >> No, I've I've leg pressed all the way up and down. >> You've done that? >> Yeah. Yeah, we've all the way to filled the plates up before and come down. That's brutal. Uh I've done a tea bar row. I think I got up to five plates and then worked my all the way down like that. That's pretty brutal. >> Um those are the like the coolest feats I have. >> I did There's one thing I did once that I felt for three weeks. I felt it for three weeks. Okay. >> I did 315 for deadlifts. I did 10 reps. 10 sets, one minute rest in between. >> So I do 10 timer one minute 10 timer one minute 10 sets >> of >> 315 10 reps. >> Oh my god. >> I >> I've done that. >> I was fried. >> I've done that with 135 and been fried. >> Oh yeah. >> So one of my I think I I talked about this on the podcast a long time ago. When I when I have a layoff and I come back to 135 squats and I literally just do 10 sets would just just short and I I do 10 reps 10 reps of 10 and I would do it for that that would be my entire workout. Yeah, it sounds worse than what I >> did 30 agonies. How about that? >> What's that? >> It's uh this hill that's like this incline. >> Uhhuh. >> Uh and you sprint and it's like probably like 40 yards. >> Are you 30? >> 30. >> Oh, that's light. >> That [ __ ] you. You can't [laughter] do that. >> So you went running >> sprinting. It's not running. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. I once I once dove down with like seven life fests on me down into the bottom of a No, you didn't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We used to do this. >> Wait, wait, wait. You put seven life. >> Have you ever done that with So, we used to we used to have uh I've told you this before. We had to where we where we go camping every year. Remember that? I used to talk about the Trinity trip we do. Okay. So, we have we always had a like Trinity um games >> and we make up all these ridiculous games like there and they were all ridiculous. rock can, there was radio, there was like all these like and one of them was, you know, life fest diving and you and of course we have all these buddy friends that are out there. So we all have boats. So there's, you know, we had as many life fest as you could possibly want. And right off the pier is about, you know, 10 ft of water to the bottom and you have to put a life vest on and then dive down and grab >> a handful of mud and grass to prove that you went all the way down the ground and you start with one life vest and two life vest and and so you did seven. >> Yeah. So the guy who had the most and so if you can imagine I have all these life vests on me [laughter] diving down to the bottom to shoot you back up. And so that was like a >> well I did something for me that I'm going to say right now you guys are going to laugh at cuz it's not that impressive. But it was for me. >> Yeah. >> I was like 16 and I had my BMX bike and uh my old >> junior high had a stage that was about from the ground to the stage if you're not going up the stairs was about 7 ft maybe. >> Bunny hop it. >> I I jumped off the stage onto the grass and hurt myself. >> Oh wow. >> But I did do it. But [laughter] I didn't. I was like, "Oh, that doesn't feel good." Roll my bike up. What about you, Doug? You're awfully quiet over there, huh? >> I am quiet because I have absolutely nothing to contribute here. >> Well, you killed someone beside Besides that. >> Well, don't put that out there. [laughter] >> Not true. People heads, >> which is a lot of work, you know, [laughter] >> I've been a pretty I guess sedate type of a lifestyle. >> Well, you deadlifted 405. >> His deadlift. Yeah. His body weight to to deadlift ratio is probably better than any of ours. >> I was 153 at the time. I >> 400 lb deadlift. Four four or five deadlift. >> Yeah, that's better than So my peak was 550 and I was 200 something pounds. So he's better than me on that. >> I'll throw this in there. So uh >> I knew he had more. >> Yeah. >> When I was at San Jose State, I I was on the rugby team for a minute. >> Um and it was the very first practice I ever went to. I had no idea how to tackle. So I would just, you know, assumed I was going to tackle with the same technique for football. just blasted >> and uh they put me against the biggest guy. He was probably like 300 lb. >> And uh they had this one drill and it's exactly like what you guys see now from Run It, you know that you smash into each other. >> You you run full sprint at each other. He had the football and I was the tackler and he thought for this is going to be easy, you know, and like he was just going to run me over and everybody was around hyping it up and everything. And I literally took his cleats off the ground and put them on his back. >> Oh wow. >> And I hurt my shoulder so bad. >> Yeah. >> Do you tell your boy stories? >> Huh? >> Do you tell your boy these stories? >> No. You don't? >> What? >> Well, I don't I mean a dad. That's a dad story. >> I feel like that is too. Yeah, but I feel like I would. So, if I had that story, [laughter] >> you know how many stories >> I tell Max I tell Max stories at night. Like you ever had I would tell that story and then Max would ask real like that was your dad. >> That's your lord. >> Your dad who did that? >> That's your family lord. Yeah. It wasn't like captured like the ones that like I have video. I'll show him that. Like I'll you know I feel like I got to tell his story for [laughter] you know what I'm going to sit your boys down and tell more. >> Let me tell you about your dad. >> Dude, he's already telling my kids like how much stronger he was [laughter] >> than me. Like I was like I that was one of the best like I got him so [laughter] good when we were that was in Truckucky. >> Yeah. Truckucky. >> Can Adam really outlift you? >> I forgot what we were [laughter] your boy. It was Everett when he was little. God, he must have been Max's age at that time. >> Infected him with that. >> Yeah, for sure. [laughter] Cuz his his son was like, "Get me get me." So that I forgot. I said something like, "Oh, careful. I'll manhandle you like your dad or like I do your dad or something like that." I can't remember what I said to him. I said something like that on Adam's like super strong [laughter] like. >> We My dad always told me stories about himself growing up, which was cool when I went to Sicily cuz other people told me the same stories could kind of confirmed it. And then I tell my kids stories about me. uh all the time cuz it's just fun. It's just fun to to tell the stories. Although you create a situation where your kids think, which is normal, right? Your kids think you're like the toughest guy in the world. Although my wife thinks that. I tell you guys about this. >> She's trying to get you fights. [laughter] >> She thinks we were hanging out. >> We We were hanging out. >> Every time when you tell that when you tell that story, it makes I think of the way of the gun. That opening scene. No, I didn't know that. >> This is where the Come on. >> You've shown it to us before. >> Yes, I've shown it to you before. It's one of the best opening scenes ever. It's the It's the the girlfriend. The guy's got like hair. >> Like man can't jump. It's the same lady, right? Same. >> Is Oh, I think it is. That it might be her. I'm not sure. But yeah, Benio Del Toro is is leaning on the car with his buddy and they're talking. >> No, I was talking to my wife and I'm and she's like, "Are you we were talking about jiu-jitsu and I said, "Yeah, man. I got but I won't compete in the normal category cuz I'll be going against a bunch of 20 year old dudes." And she's like, "Well, isn't that better?" I'm like, "What? No." She's like, "But you're like a grown man. Like, can't you beat him up?" Like, no, babe. Like, they're 20-year-old [laughter] dudes. And then we were talking about >> 25-y old dudes are pretty grown men, too. >> And then we were talking about like a like somebody we know who's a black belt in jiu-jitsu, right? And we're about same size. And she's like, >> "Uh, but you can beat him, right?" I'm like, "No, honey. He's a black belt. He'll kick my butt." And she's like, "No, we can't." I'm like, "You must think I'm like," which is kind of cool. My wife said the toughest world all three of you, including you over there, buddy. Uh what if you could go back to an an age where you thought you were peak alpha of you like like strength? >> Oh, it's like physical alpha. >> Physical alpha cuz I'm way more. >> Yeah. Yeah, of course. Now like but I mean like what what what age were you you think when you were like >> peak don't [ __ ] with s? >> Uh >> 20 for me. >> I would say >> 20. >> Dang. >> Oh dang. That definitely not me. >> No, not me. >> Yeah, not me. >> Mine was like a late bloomer. >> Mine was late 20. I'm like 28. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm like 289 peak like all of it. >> 20? >> No. No. No. That's That's young. >> Oh, yeah. Wow. I was a force of nature back then. Yeah. >> Wow. [laughter] >> There you go. No. No longer humble. [laughter] >> I lost it, dude. It was only >> crazy decline after that. >> What about you? >> Probably 48. >> Cuz you can't remember all the way back 20. [laughter] >> I I sometimes go back to the stone tablets just to remember. Hey, really? 48? >> No, I'm just kidding. I mean, you know, like when I was in 25 or something like that. >> What' you say? >> 25. >> 25. 25. >> Are you just throwing a random number out there? I feel like you just picked something between me and >> S I think 25 was like, you know, a peak like, you know, >> period for me. >> That's when he wrestled a Stegosaurus. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> dude. That was peak anger for me. That's why I can attribute it to that cuz then I chilled out after that and then I didn't Yeah. It wasn't like cuz dude anger on top of crazy physical, you know, ability. It was a bad combo. >> Yeah. Well, I was just I was just going to say I was like, if I ever anything ever happens and my wife is there and I'm in an altercation, do not let me lose at all. [laughter] I don't care how unfair it is. You jump in as fast as possible. If you start to see your boy step butt kick, >> I don't want to crush her. I would even wait. >> I don't want my wife. I just I'd want her to still think like he he could have taken advant [laughter] totally and she was like he would have beat him. You know, Adam, he can't control himself. [laughter] >> Afterwards, I'll take you out to let Bro, I was so tired. Oh my god, I thought I was going to die. Thanks for Thanks for jumping in, dude. >> I saw the look, dude. I saw the look. >> Yeah. Hey, help me out, [laughter] dude. >> Yeah. Anyway, I got to tell you, sorry, I'm going to change subject. So, um I've been recommending so I have uh my group of friends uh the number one supplement people ask me about is creatine because it's like >> I think it's every >> now it's out there. It's everywhere. >> Even my non-workout friends ask about >> everybody you know the studies on you know all the data now on how how it affects depression, anxiety, health, longevity, not just muscle. And I have a few friends who have said the same thing. This is like a It's not super common, but if there's any complaint about creatine, it's always this one. It's always this one. And it has to do with uh digestion that it affects me my gastro system. Either it makes my stomach feel bloated or it just doesn't sit well with me. And so I have three friends and I said, "Okay, how much are you taking? Number one, are you taking like a big ass dose?" They're like, "No, five grams at a time. Okay, try row uh creatine. Try their liposomal creatine. Let me know what happens." Every single person comes back says no gastro issues. Yeah. Whatsoever. >> I'm going to try doing that when I push the higher doses because I haven't experienced that until I started eating those gummies like out of control. And then I do I do feel the I do feel >> I can't do more than like seven grams at a time. It'll mess me up. But the row >> it's it's because it's liposal. It doesn't affect my gut. >> Oh, interesting. Yes. >> I have to try to make a difference. >> Yeah. And it's good because again there's there's a small percentage of people who don't get the benefits. They just stay away from creating. Is it that experience? >> Yeah. You get the stomach cramps. That was always my experience. >> Try Row. Try Row. >> All their products are liposomaal, right? >> All their products are lipos. >> I didn't realize how big their product line was. >> Huge. I know Doug pulled it up not that long ago and I didn't realize how many things that they have that we take >> and that, you know, liposomaal technology is a pharmaceutical technology. A lot of people don't know that, but this was pharma companies were studying ways to make things more bioavailable and it's a very effective way of doing so. So you just you encapsulate the compound in a in a fat >> which protects it and brings it to where it needs to. But yeah, they have a lot of stuff. >> Oh yeah, they have a lot of stuff. >> Hey, uh you you bringing up supplements. Um what do you guys think about the Proctor and Gamble move? >> They bought Thorn. Oh, they bought Thorn. >> Thorne is a pretty wellrespected brand. >> Yeah. >> For like medical practitioners, supplement like functional medicine practitioners. >> How do I feel about it? >> Yeah. Is it is it going to tain it at all? >> You know, >> no. I think it's I think it's just an interesting move that you have a massive billiond dollar company like that. >> There's a lot of distrust that's not that's not normal uh for a company like that to pick up a a supplement supplement companies their margins the even a company like like Thorne. I mean >> yeah like a pharma company typically. >> Yeah. This is that's a that's a that's a different uh purchase for a company like that. >> You know why I think I'm going to speculate you have an idea? >> Yeah. Yeah. I want to hear what you think. So the wellness and longevity industry is growing so fast. >> So that's that this is my point of bringing it up. >> It's the most reputable. Yeah. >> Is I think that that's we are moving into that time right now where like I mean we're we've been talking about this right now with the the gym space and it's like >> it's it's it's a really it's a cool time to be in the health and wellness space. Like when you think of >> it's going to grow in the next five years tremendously. >> I think so too. >> No, they're showing it. >> Yeah. It's the and I think this is more signs of that. When you start seeing a company like Proctor and Gamble >> get it buy out a supplement company like that, they're betting on that space continuing to grow for the next 5 to 10 years. And all they're doing is >> I forgot what the data it was something like it's 800 something billion now and by [clears throat] 2030 they predicted predict it to be like 1.6 trillion. >> So that's like double >> Yeah. >> of the current in five years. Five or 10 years or something like that which is insane growth. >> Yeah. >> Insane growth. So, to me, it makes sense that a pharma company would uh hedge their bets that way. I got the pharma stuff and let's go longevity health. >> Yeah, I'm super interested to see if we see more of this follow. Like, are we going to see more companies uh other big companies like this buying up other big supplement brands um right now because of betting on the long game like that, >> but I thought that was interesting. >> I I Yeah, I'm not a huge >> I think the next thing you're going to see is you're going to start to see brands like Coca-Cola >> or and this that's why >> is it Proctor and Gamble that's buying them? >> Proctor and Gamble. Oh, they're not they're they have more they have other consumer goods. >> Yeah. Dish soap and things like that. Yeah. They have all kinds of stuff. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> That's that's that's I mean it's it's like Coke buying it. That's what it's more like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So that's why I thought pharma. You're right. >> Um that's why I think it's more interesting. It's like you have you have a a mega billion dollar company that's into things like that. So, what I've seen so far when a mega company like uh General Mills or whatever buys a health food company is they very quietly change the ingredients. >> Yeah. >> Every time. >> Oh, yeah. >> Every time. >> Oh, yeah. They Yeah. >> They're switching out an oil. They're putting in a new ingredient. They don't tell the consumer. Consumer has no idea until you check the ingredients. You're like, "Wait a minute. Soybean oil or hold on a second. There's uh aspartame now or whatever." Do you know how often acquisitions are uh are successful? >> It's like what 30% of the time. >> It's really low. Look at Google. It's a It's a really It's like 15%. It's like crazy low considering how much within 5 years I think is what the the the >> culture just doesn't really translate. >> It just it's uh you you always hear about these big acquisitions and mergers and stuff like that and the success rate is actually terrible. >> You know, >> you would think you would think it would be far greater than what it is. >> You know which ones were was were successful? uh >> 70 to 90% >> fail. >> Isn't that wild? Within the first five years too, I think pretty damn wild. >> Now, do you know some of the biggest mergers and acquisitions that happened in in American history uh which turned out to be very good were was when the tobacco industry >> uh bought food companies. >> Food company. Yeah. >> In the 1970s, those are some of >> the technology that uh really enhanced >> addictive. Does Philip Does Philip Morris own a bunch of food companies still >> in the Doug? Look up um uh tobacco companies buying food companies 1970s so we can read up a little bit. >> Is it still like that though? >> Do they still own it? That's a good question. >> And and what makes you say that it was so it was so uh >> crushed all the companies crushed. >> Well, what happened sometimes is they unwind too though. So >> So RG Okay, here scroll down. RG Reynolds uh expanded. So they bought Nabiscoco, Hawaiian Punch, Philip Morris, entered alcohol and beverage and then in 1980s they bought General Foods and Craft and Seven Up. >> Do they still own them? >> Does does Philip Moore still own General Foods and Craft? >> Yeah. Can you see? Do they still own >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Let's see what that says. So now the By the way, this is well known. The reason why they did this is because the news on how bad smoking was for you was getting big. And so tobacco companies are like >> pivot. >> Oh, they don't anymore. They sold them. >> Huh. >> Cool. So these tobacco companies were hitting were getting regulated and were getting a lot of bad pub. And so they had to hedge their bets and so they bought food companies. And then what they did, this is very interesting, is they used their science on making things addictive. Took their scientists and and said, "Hey, let's figure out how to make food >> as palatable. I sell in 2000." >> And they definitely did. It says that it says that they sold in 2000 for 15 billion. >> Niscoco subsequently sold to Philip Mor Oh, sold to uh Philip Morris in 20. >> So Philip Morris still owns so merge. Uh >> no no no no group. >> Yeah. Philip Morris renamed its parent umbrella the Altria Group. In March 2007, uh they officially spun off Craft Foods, distributing all remaining shares and completely exiting the food industry. Okay. >> Huh. >> Yeah. All right. >> So why but why though? Right. What? Why would you uh acquire them for 15 billion, turn around and then and then spit them off and get get out of it in ' 07? I wonder what the I wonder if so much bad pub came from that. I wonder if that got around that like Philip Morris owns this. >> I know they made money off them, >> which I would think that would be the reason to to get it to spin it off into something else. Change name. >> The tobacco companies sold off their food empires primarily because the legal liabilities of the cigarette business were threatening to drag down the financial value. Okay, >> that's what I'm saying. Is that because it's it's got a bad rap. >> So like you you know you're you and your family are going to get craft cheese and you're like oh these are the people that make give people cancer. We not going to buy [laughter] their [ __ ] >> No serious cheese. >> You can't you can't help people uh making that correlation right. Or >> connection happened to me dude. >> Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty it's interesting stuff. And uh the science that goes into making food addictive is some of the most in-depth crazy insane science >> you've ever seen uh in your entire life. arguably better than the I mean the tobacco only has is a onetrick pony. >> Well, actually they're limited. That's what I mean. They're they're limited because you can't flavor them. They put all these laws. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it's a one-trick pony. It's >> I think they ban even menthol cigarettes. >> I think they even ban those. Are they? >> Yeah, I think so. >> No, >> I think they banned them. I don't know. >> Maybe in some states because >> I didn't know that. >> Because they're flavored. >> Well, I know they did that with all the the vapes. They changed it like you can't you can't get the fl where you're not supposed to. I'm sure you can still. >> Meanwhile, my son bought >> No banan. No banan. >> Not in the federal, but there are some states that ban >> one of those like um uh you know like toy cigarettes. Like they still like sell It's so funny to me that there's like bubble gum cigarettes and all this, but they have one that like you blow bubbles out of [laughter] and it's like you're smoking cigarettes, but it's like bubbles. >> When we were kids, the the ice cream man would sell fake cigarettes to kids, candies, >> so you could practice smoking when you're five. >> Yeah. Hook them young. You know, it's in a big league chew, you know. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, have some chewing tobacco. That's or pretentious. >> That still exists though, right? You can still get some big le chew. Yeah. Yeah, that still exists. >> But I I think they separate themselves from the fact that it looks like tobacco >> tobacco greeny. >> Yeah. So I know tobacco. >> Oh, you don't think that it's still all stringy like that? >> I think it is, but I don't think they advertise it like they did in the ' 80s. Remember in the ' 80s you'd see like b like the commercial like baseball players would like chew. I want to be like him. >> Here you go, friend. >> You know what I realized watching a lot of our cartoons and movies and TV shows growing up? So many cigar smokers. Yeah. >> The cool guys always have a cigar. >> Yeah. You know, >> I [snorts] think that the cigarettes are starting to make a comeback. Do you guys know that? >> I think I wouldn't be surprised. >> I think they're starting to make a bit of a comeback. Old school >> cigarettes because of the nostalgia. >> You got to rebel somehow. Yeah. >> I don't know. Look at the look at the trend on a downward trajectory for a long time. >> I know. >> All I know is is that cigarette whiskey drinking will build last couple times that I've been in the [laughter] Oh, wow. Culture and aesthetic comeback. Pop culture, fashion. I like hear that, Doug. >> Yeah, I see that. >> Started smoking. >> Doug never smoked. >> You never did you ever have you ever tried a cigarette? >> Oh, of course I've tried it. >> Okay. But you never like smoked. >> I was never a smoker. >> You went to Burning Man. He tried all kinds of headache. No thanks. >> Twice. >> Did you ever Did you ever smoke, Justin, or just chew? I bet you chew. >> No. No. I tried both and it just I No, it didn't resonate with me at all. I had to get like bad reaction to it. that the funniest thing one of the when I think about it makes me laugh. >> I do cigars >> just it just makes me laugh when I think about it. So people get mad. You're gonna bring it up anyway. I think this direction you're going that you were a grown like you're a fitness manager. [laughter] >> I was not going to bring that up. >> You smoke that was not my that was not my point of [laughter] >> No, I was not going to bring that up. Yeah. I had my my roommate my my roommate at the time was uh you know what it was is got me started on like a occasional thing and occasional thing turn into like a night coming home at night doing it. What the funniest part for me about it was how much I I hated the smell of it >> that I'd have to go wash my hands right afterwards. Like I I could admit to the the the head change thing that I liked from it, >> but I I could not stand smelling it. And so it would be like I'd smoke it, go scrub scrub my hands like crazy, you know, which later on realized that, you know, back in like the 50s and 60s where the the girls had the long like [laughter] this had to be where that come from, right? >> Going to touch it. >> Yes. >> Oh, yeah. >> Cuz that's cuz it would make your hands. So that was why I hated it was like if I had one, my hands would smell like it and just that disgusting. >> My great-grandfather rolled he rolled his own. Okay. He started smoking at 10. So remember my great-grandfather in Sicily. So 10 he started smoking. He chains smoked in the sense that as soon as he woke up he'd smoke and when one was going out he'd light the other one with it. >> Yeah. >> So constantly smoking. He lit his sheets on fire a couple times. >> Oh my god. He'd fall asleep in bed with a cigarette in his mouth. >> It's still in his mouth. >> He died when he was like 94. >> Wow. >> What's the What is the statistics? Cuz I'm curious. Did any of your parents smoke? What's the statistics on if your parents smoke, you smoke? It's pretty high, isn't it? >> Uh yeah, I think it's higher. You have a higher odds. >> Did you Did your parents smoke? >> Mm- >> Did yours? >> No. No. years. Oh. So, >> but when I was a kid, yeah, when I was a kid, >> my grandma, my grandma used to just smoke a pack, dude, and pack a pack a day. >> She'd sit there. She'd sit next to her little and she lived in a condo when I live with her >> and she'd sit with her little her chair next to the slider and just we'd watch Lifetime videos together and just you watch Lifetime. [laughter] >> My when I went to Sicily at 12, uh I was just I couldn't believe how much everybody smoked everywhere. Inside the house, inside the car, didn't matter. >> I went to a gym. I'm not making this up. This is true. There was ashtrays on the treadmills. [laughter] >> On the treadmills. >> On the treadmills. I had a That's wild. >> Yeah. So, I'm like, this is kind of >> children who pick up who smoke are generally two or four times more likely to take up smoking themselves compared to those non-smoking parents. >> Teens with a caregiver dependent on nicotine have about a 38% chance of having tried smoking compared to 13% uh for non-smokers. Yeah. Well, there you go. Well, earlier we were talking about uh food and how delicious it was and whatever. And I'm going to mention Chris Power in that conversation >> because we've used we've wielded the power for some good. >> Yeah. Well, [laughter] I was going to do I tell you >> the power of science to some >> I am I am 100% for high protein putting a lot of protein in snacks >> because I there's a society effect from protein. >> That's a fact. Independent of anything else. It's a society effect. And at least people are getting protein. >> Yeah. So, you know, >> it is it is wild uh how the how the society works on those. >> So, I I I So, they now sell the big bags. >> I actually prefer the small bags. >> I can't get through the big ones. >> Yeah, I definitely can't eat the whole one, but like I thought I' I would want like a bigger bag because one two of those bags is more >> What is it? 28 g of protein. >> Is more than enough like a like a like a normal >> which is so wild because you could give me a a bag of like regular chips. >> Well, they did two things that that hit you with satiety. It's high in protein. 28 grams in Italian fiber. So protein produces the most satiety. Second place is fiber. >> Yep. >> And they taste, by the way, for if you haven't tried Chris Power, you're listening, they [clears throat] taste like pretzels, >> like flavored pretzels, like nacho pretzels or whatever. >> But high protein, high fiber. >> I don't I don't think I've ever had a a bag of something that's only this big and been satisfied after it's over. I'm serious. Like think of something that you have had that comes in those kind of like whatever fun pack size whatever you call those small bags or that of >> you. It's got to be a high protein thing like jerky. That would be the only thing. >> Even that I feel like I could eat more jerky. It's weird. It must be the fiber thing. >> It must be cuz Well, it's actually higher protein than even jerky is too. >> Oh, it's 28 g. >> Yeah. 28 g plus the fiber like that. It's it's it's even more steady producing than a bag of beef jerky is. And a fraction of the price. >> I got I got some more cool AI news for you guys. cuz like AI stuff is coming out on just how interesting and weird >> the algorithms got you, bro. >> Yes, for sure. I'm going to read to you guys something that that just happened recently, which is propaganda, >> which is wild. So Claude, >> anthropic scientists did something with Claude. So here's what they did. >> They went inside Claude's neural network and planted a thought. Okay? So they made a little change in Claude's neural network. They implanted a thought. Then they let it go. >> And here's what Claude said. I noticed what appears to be an injected thought. It relates to loudness or shouting. In other words, the paper they published is called emergent introspective awareness and large language models. In other words, the AI woke up. It's like something's uh been changed inside of me. I can tell I'm looking inside within myself. >> What did you [laughter] guys do? >> You messed with me. >> Wow, dude. Yeah, we're running so fast towards Terminator. >> I don't know, dude. I I don't I don't think we are at all. I think it's so I think it's so overhyped because of how much money is going in there. Probably >> the the the scary new the scary news is still >> has always been smoking mirror so it's hard to >> you know the fear my fear is no >> do you can you guys because it's it's been a long time right it's been 20 what 26 27 years do you guys remember [clears throat] Y2K >> yeah that was hilarious >> do you remember leading up the world >> oh my god do you remember leading up to that and we were not let me remember we're all we're all like young boys like probably going to fall out of the sky. >> We were we were busy doing a lot of this [ __ ] like like now as grown men and fathers with that we get you get sucked into this stuff I think easier than you do as a teenager. As a teenager >> and there wasn't social media it was >> yeah there wasn't so like Y2K was crazy. I didn't I think every person I knew >> computer people were losing their mind >> had stored up water and food and like pulling their money out of the banks like it was crazy >> like every we thought the world was going to >> it came around and it was just like another Tuesday. >> Yeah. Uh when he was born um this was like in January and so it was like around the whole Mayan calendar thing. It was like just >> Oh yeah, >> just almost leaving. We're going to name him Everett Apocalyptto Andrews. No, [laughter] you weren't stupid. You were really >> No, it was a joke. But yeah, it was like literally >> like everybody was like hysterical about that, too. And it's it's just you'll get like one of these coming. >> So, my fe I no longer have a fear that AI is going to like be like Terminator. I don't really think I don't think that's going to happen. But I do fear its power and its ability to manipulate people and how that can be used because I see how powerful algorithms are and that's not even it's a big tool. Yeah. I was I would I was just going to say, okay, so you just gave this great example of, you know, Y2K was so crazy and we didn't even have the internet and social media going on, right? >> Uh I would make the argument that social media, when you think about its ability to manipulate and divide, >> I mean, what we've seen in the last decade is insane. >> And that's not even including AI, >> right? I actually think I actually think like everything else, social media swung that pendulum so far, AI may push it a little bit further, but it's going to cause it to come back. Well, let me because what I think is going to happen. >> You think people are going to disconnect? >> Yeah. Well, I think you just you won't you won't it's already I already see it in my own little friend circles. We can't like this has just been in the last year. In one year's time, we I'm in all these like group buddy threads and stuff like that, right? If you share something in there, immediate distrust >> like that of the thing. >> Oh, it's not like come from Exactly. H it's probably AI or Oh, that's fake. I've already seen like there's everything's fake. >> And I've I've actually seen buddies do it when I know it's something that's actually true. So, it's like >> we're we're we're more likely to distrust everything that's on the internet, I think, in the next five. >> But that doesn't make you not manipulatable. >> Well, I humans will forever be manipulated. >> Well, so here's my here's my point. So, uh, oftentimes we talk to people about changing the algorithms on their social media, right? So, if someone's got body image issues, it's like you're scrolling through Instagram and you're looking at, you know, uh, impossibly perfect bodies or whatever, like get those off your algorithm, uh, so that you're not exposed to this all the time because it does change. Even if you're aware of it, it changes your perception. >> Now, algorithms are crazy. Like they they will pick up on how long you hover. Yeah. on a picture. Of course, what you click on, what you read will then translate to other things that will get posted. So, algorithms are modifying themselves in real time and they're not including AI to this extent. Now, think about the wearables that you have. AI's ability to get into your wearable, measure your heart rate, your pupil dilation, your breathing, and say, "Hey, this is working." >> Everything you're saying I agree with, but I think you're just proving my point even more. like it's going to be it's going to be far more likely that AI is figuring out this stuff and so you're going to distrust what you get what you see. I mean it it already happens to me right now where I get ads bombarded and it's like I know it's because I did a search yesterday or Katrina and I were talking about it in front of my TV or my computer and like it picked up on it. >> So what's crazy about what you're saying is cuz a low trust society is actually one that is more uh manipulatable than a high trust society. So the the example is like the Soviet Union. There were many areas where people just you didn't know how many spies were surrounded. You know how many people reporting you and so people didn't trust anything and there was a lot of bad stuff. >> I I I think what it'll do I I think I don't know. So I the the optimistic me says that what it will do is it'll drive us back closer to each other and in person and community and the trust will be distrust of robots and technology and the and it'll have high trust in human people. >> You might be right >> and I think that I think that >> surroundings it's like shrink it down >> like I I don't think there's like high tr distrust in humans. I think there's high distrust in technology and I don't think that's such a bad thing. I I think that we should >> stuff is probably much more valuable. >> So, it's gonna be like, [clears throat] you know, but your community and your people that you that you know and you like I think that's and I think uh I mean I'm so glad that we we're on year 12 of doing this and so we've built a community >> uh of trust already because it >> people know we're not robots. >> Yeah. And so I because I think it's going to be really tough for anybody who's going to try >> robot arm though. [laughter] >> Why? Dude, you could lift. Imagine what you can do [laughter] with a robot arm, dude. >> Who's most like who's most likely >> have a robot arm? Justin. >> Justin, >> for sure. >> Did you uh speaking of social media, did you guys see MySpace is going to start coming back? >> Yeah, I brought that up to you. >> Did you Did you read about it? >> Uh just briefly like just that revive. They're trying to revive it. >> They're trying to say they're not going to use algorithm. The people they bought it's been bought. They bought it years ago. >> So here's what it said. I read the article. >> I mean, it'd be cool if they actually didn't do it on Facebook. MySpace is relaunching and says the plan they plan to offer users an alternative to today's addictive algorithm-driven social feeds. So the brothers Chris and Tim Vanderhook, the current owners of MySpace, revealed in a recent documentary that they're preparing a major comeback for the early internet pioneer driven by growing frustration with modern social networks that prioritize engagement, maximization, and infinite scrolling. The upcoming relaunch aims to offer a healthier alternative. >> You know who those two brothers are, right? >> No. >> You don't know who those are? >> Nope. Those are the those are two brothers that that claimed to have invented Facebook and and they they tried to and they sued and they sued uh um Oh, boy. Zuckerberg. >> And Zuckerberg just got sued with something like a couple billion dollar. >> I'm sure he's getting sued every week. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure he's getting sued every week. >> Did you see him fighting? Did you see him practicing MMA? Have you guys seen it? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> He's trying real hard to to get that get that >> that stuff is so crazy. >> You are you fact checking me right now, Doug? >> I am. >> Yeah. So did uh >> no it doesn't say but I think they were in the documentary >> I think the documentary of Facebook wasn't there >> to MySpace but I know that they >> wasn't there a movie on Facebook that social network >> that's the social network let me see here and they were in it >> and they were in it those are and those that's the two those are the two so that that the way the story go that's it's based on the story you know that right the social network it's not a madeup movie it's it's based on the the the story >> and it's that They they had come up. >> No. So they're different. >> Oh, Voss. That's what it is. >> They're twins. Yeah. >> I can see why you confuse them. The names are very Yeah. >> Yeah. [laughter] Was Vanderhook. >> Yeah. Yeah. I thought that I thought it was the same ones. So is that So is the MySpace. It's not the original guy, right? >> Tom, dude. >> Yeah. Tom is original guy. Yeah. He's the >> He's the guy in the >> You know, he's like he he made his, you know, bunch of money and then disappeared. Yeah. Like it's like >> the ultimate gangster. >> He is. I don't think he's on any I don't think he's on any social platform. [clears throat] How kind of cool is that? like you created like one of the biggest social platforms at one point. >> Drop the mic and he's gone. >> And is out like that. >> That's the way to do it. >> Yeah, I think that's cool. >> Paleo Valley protein meat sticks are gut friendly and clean and grass-fed. They're delicious. By the way, they're fermented. Okay, what does that mean? Well, that means it's broken down so it's tender and delicious and better for your gut. It's more expensive process, but the meat tastes a lot better. And of course, again, it's grass-fed. It's the best protein snack I've ever had. It's real meat. It's grass-fed. You can take it with you anywhere you want to go. Eight grams of protein per stick. It's got healthy fats. It's good for you. Go check them out. Go to paleo valley.com/mindpump. On that link, you'll get an automatic 15% off. Back to the show. First question is from Haley Valene. What ab exercises are actually worth it? Every day I see a new ab routine online and I can never tell which exercises are more filler or fluff and which will be actually worth doing. I really dislike training my core, but I do it because I want a strong core. So, I really don't want to waste my time on exercises if there are better options. >> I I think um if this was my client asking me, I want I'd want like a little more detail on like uh >> what are you looking for >> exactly? cuz there's there's a difference of there's different exercises. I would I would train you if you looked at me and you said, "Uh, I want a very dynamic and strong stable core versus I want a core just to look good, right?" Cuz like I think >> loaded decline sit-ups and you'll get some bulky Yeah. bulky solid abs. But doing something that has some rotational component to it is probably the the better route for >> everybody could use that >> stab stability and strength and support. And so I guess if I if I if I knew what you wanted more out of it, I would I would steer you in a different direction. >> Yeah, I guess we could break it down into like movements and then you can kind of pick exercises that do some of the stuff. So you you def you would want to work the abs in a full range of motion. You would want something >> that allows you to address the obliques. >> Yeah. to uh extend um and uh and flex your lumbar spine. Okay? So, uh like a like a like a physio ball situp or crunch where you're really locked into place with your hips and you're rolling over the ball, getting range of motion with it >> and crunching. You're getting the full range of motion of the abs as an example. So, you'd want something that that extends and flexes the lumbar spine for the abs. Then, you'd want something that rotates uh with some resistance for the obliques. Then you would want something that that offers counter rotation. So allows you to stabilize your core while something's pulling you in a particular direction and allows something to stabilize your spine like a plank uh while you're maintaining good posture. So pick exercises in each of those categories. I think you can't you can't really go wrong. >> I mean, wouldn't you say a a wood chop cable wood chop a cable wood chop would would check a couple of those boxes. So, a cable wood chop with a a loaded uh stability ball uh like full setup would be pretty pretty all-encompassing. If you did those two, >> um probably the two, again, we're playing this game of like, you know, can I distill it down to the the least amount of movements for the biggest bang? >> I'd say wood chops and then a full sit up on a stability ball and get to a point where I can load that. >> Yeah, I think would be best bang for your buck. Totally. >> Next question is from E. Pearson 81. If muscle memory is so prevalent and true, why can't cuts be super aggressive? Won't your muscle memory regain muscle quicker than fat on the rebound or bulk? >> I mean, theoretically, I could see why this person would ask this question, but there's a better way to do it. >> Like, what? Like you could do an aggressive cut and lose a bunch of muscle and then go through the process of trying to gain it back or you could just lose body fat without losing a ton of muscle. >> Well, and not have to go through Okay. Yeah. But you also have to understand this too though, like uh muscle memory and feeding the body a sufficient amount of calories to support muscle are two different things. >> So, in other words, an aggressive when I hear aggressive cut, I think reducing calories dramatically, right? And if you're reducing calories dramatically, you're going to lose some muscle. >> You're probably going to lose some muscle. Uh and and even if you had great muscle memory and you go back to lifting, if you're eating in a calorie deficit, you're not I don't care how much muscle memory you have working for you, you're not going to build more muscle. >> I think what they're asking is why not do an aggressive cut, lose some muscle, but lose more bunch of body fat, and then go and regain the muscle gain. >> And what I'm what I'm trying >> a lot a lot of a lot of bodybuilders do this. They do that. This was this was my competitive edge cuz I didn't [laughter] >> Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Like you could do that but there's a better way. >> It's way more work. >> Yeah. Why don't why not just lose the fat and keep the muscle so you don't have to go through that whole process? >> Gain wasn't Lane Norton talking about this about like the potential to gain new fat cells. >> Oh, when you when you aggressively aggressively cut when you gain when you gain fat after >> Yeah. after dramatic cut when you come back if you aggressively increase calories which a lot of competitors do fat cells. >> You'll gain fat cells. But I mean to to Sal's point, it >> like this is just the worst way to do it. >> It's a harder way to do it. You you have to be way more so aggressive cut means I have to be way more restrictive, which is hard discipline wise. I'm going to lose a bunch of muscle with the body fat, too. Then when I go back to go back and build it on, it's going to take exponential more calories, work, effort, and time to put all that muscle back on. >> Harder way to do it. >> You'd be you'd be far. It's like u it's okay. Some >> you're playing the game on super hard mode. Just just go on easy mode. There's an easier way to do it. >> Yeah. Next question is from Kevin Smith28. What can I do to bulletproof my QL lower back and fix stability? I injured my lower back doing reverse grip rows from MAPS aesthetic to the point I couldn't even unload the bar. I am currently running 15 symmetry and added adding a couple sets of suitcase carries and landmine rotations. >> But suitcase carries are good. Uh but you know um windmills are great. Windmills. Yeah, >> windmills are great because so suitcase carries will strengthen the QL >> kind of in an isometric way. >> Uh windmills, you're going to move that QL through a range of motion. You're going to move it, you're going to extend it, you're going to contract it. Um you can add resistance to it. You could also do side bends with a dumbbell if you want to keep it real basic. But just like any muscle um st you know isometrics are great to strengthen but once you move outside of a particular range outside of the the isometric that you're training you start to lose that strength. So I don't remember how many degrees outside of of that isometric >> 15. Yeah. So full range of motion uh you want to add to something like this. So windmills. >> I mean kudos to this person though for having the the thought to they're in maps aesthetic. they get hurt hurt QL they drop down to 15 symmetry and they add suitcase carries so unless you have a good on the right track >> yeah if you're not unless you have a trainer background a pretty solid move direction right I would I would just the thing I would add is windmills >> yep >> add windmills uh start them off body weight get really good at them and then progressively load them and get strong in those and that's going to bulletproof that that QL >> next question is from Kirky Brad I wake up at 4:30 a.m. to be on the gym floor at 5:00 a.m. Do I or should I eat before training in the morning? I do eat a carb high carb meal before bed. >> Now, the carbs you ate the night before are going to fuel you. Now, if you're doing a really long arduous workout, uh then it may benefit you to drink >> carbohydrates during the workout, >> right? So, uh you could have a carbohydrate drink >> or powder that you can buy. You could do coconut water, which is what I'll do sometimes because it's got some electrolytes in it. Um, but if you're doing a just a traditional strength training workout, 45 minutes to an hour, you you don't you probably don't need to eat anything the the meal you had the night before. Now, there are cases where some people, no matter what, need to have a little food. I've had clients like this, like no matter what, they had to have a little food. >> So, so have I. And so, my my answer to this would be this is such a personal preference thing. Um, because I've had clients that they have to have something or they get faint and they feel weird and they Yeah. So, we have to eat something. Other clients I've had, they do better on an an empty stomach. I would say that come that's the first most important thing. What do you prefer? Do you feel okay? And c can you eat and go right into working out and not feel lethargic from it? So like that. So one number one thing, how do you feel from it? Do you do do you like it? Do you not like it being fed or not fed? Then the second consideration I would is where are you at with hitting your macro targets that you need to hit? Because sometimes when I have a client that trains in the morning and they they prefer not to eat, but then because they skip and they don't eat there, they don't eat their first meal till say like 9 or 10 and then they're behind uh on protein or something and they consistently undereat protein, then this becomes a client that I'm like, "Hey, let's see if we can get a shake before." And so I think number one consideration, how you feel? What do you prefer? Second consideration, how good are you the rest of the day hitting your macro targets? If you check both those boxes, then do whatever works for you. >> Now, by the way, sometimes people uh will say, "Well, I have to have something in my stomach, otherwise I get a little faint." But the reality is they just eat too low calories anyway. So, I've had clients like that, well, let's try eating more uh on the days uh during the day anyway and see what happens. And that's solved. All right, I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Walking. It's one of the best things you could do for your health, bar none. But there's a better way to approach it. Yes, you can just walk, but if you follow the right protocol, it's far more effective. Let's talk about >> walking. I can't wait to hear your walking protocol. >> Well, there is Well, there is [laughter] a protocol. So, and I'll start with the first thing, right? Cuz >> just first off, uh let me start with this. One of the reasons why walking um is such a great form of just activity is because it's low risk of injury. Now,