Before Buying Nonprofit Software: 5 Questions to Ask

[music] Welcome back everybody. It is an exciting day here on the nonprofit show because this is part of nonprofit power week. We only do this a couple times a year and uh it's always an exciting opportunity for us. Our partner this week is your part-time controller. Um each and every day we've had on an expert from the YPTC family talking about different things, different topics, but they all weave together. And today we're welcoming back um one of our I hate to say it one of our faves from YPDC, Christine Taco. She's going to be talking about the five questions you ask before buying software. And I suspect Christine a lot of these questions get asked after and [laughter] more than that. >> Yeah. So we we don't want that. we want to like step back and say what should we be thinking about before and you know note to self this is not just about financial software this is going to be addressing things that help you run your nonprofit um so it's not just you know the accounting software for those people in the back um it's it's for things that can go across you know your organization so Christine I'm thrilled you're going to be talking with us about this today thank you >> yeah thank you. >> It'll be a lot of fun. I was telling Christine in the um green room um I had two software demos in two days and I kept thinking in the back of my mind, Christine's coming on. I should have scheduled these demos until after she was on the nonprofit show so that I would, you know, I could have had different questions. But I'll tell you one thing we never question and that is uh the amazing support we get from our presenting sponsors. They include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Third Sector Company, your part-time Controller, and Martis. Martis is one of our newest sponsors, and we are excited to welcome them uh on the nonprofit show. I'm Julia C. Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And as I welcomed Christine Choco um as a manager from your part-time controller, Christine's been on before. I'm gonna say Christine, you're the the tech guru for us [laughter] in so many ways, but paint a picture about what your life is like with YPTC and and and how you integrate your knowledge and your wisdom into the bigger family. >> Yeah. Um, so I I'm a CPA. I have an accounting background. Um, but I also have a tech background. So, I help a lot of our clients um implement uh accounting systems, redesign their systems, um implement apps, really like think through how they can use their technology or more technology or use what they have better um to really get insights from their data and make the decisions that they need to be able to make. um and you know report out on their data uh to their funders and to their donors and all of that. Um just really help them get what they need. >> I got to ask this question. Do you find just as a cursory glance across the landscape of the nonprofit sector that we are woefully behind? Because I keep hearing this and I I I'm I'm part of that messaging too, shamefully [laughter] that the nonprofit sector is like the last to adopt technology, the last to lean in. >> Is that true or is that just like a bad myth that we keep propelling? >> I mean, I think it really depends on what tech you're talking about. A lot of nonprofits do use tech and some like Excel is tech, you know, like having a donor database is tech. Um, maybe they're not all using AI or maybe they're not all using like the cutting edge solutions. Um, but I think a lot more organizations than people think about are actively using something. >> Okay. So, there's hope. We're not like, you know, back in in the stone age like I think sometimes we think we are, right? >> Yes. There is always hope. There's always hope. >> I love that. Well, let's get started because you we were talking about this in the green room as I mentioned earlier. You said something to me years ago that just rocked my world and you said, "We need to ask this question. Is it really time for new tech?" And my immediate gut re reaction is like, well, of course, it's always time. There's always, you know, it's always things better, but not so fast. Talk to us about what this question really is drilling down towards. Yeah. So sometimes like people will get maybe frustrated with not being able to um get a report out of their accounting system that shows them exactly you know what they're spending on every program um or you know not get that information out of their database or whatever it is and then they think okay so what I need to do is replace my accounting system. Um [laughter] and uh or maybe they think like maybe my people don't know how to do it. Um but ultimately like sometimes it's just you don't know how to use the software that you already have. >> Um sometimes it's a process problem. Maybe like you're not tracking all of the attributes of the data that you want to report on and that's why you can't get that reporting out. Um sometimes it's just a communication problem. Like sometimes maybe the people you're asking to get the data don't understand what you're asking. Maybe you're not communicating in a way that that makes it clear to them. Um maybe they are understanding the data differently or they're understanding what you can get out of the data differently. So sometimes you know you just need training. Maybe you need training. the people um at your organization that use that software need training to really understand um what the data is, how to get it out and also to understand best practices for using that particular piece of software to track your data. Um sometimes you might need a process audit too like there there could be significant steps that are missing and that's really what prevents you from being able to get your data out. Well, >> it's when I hear you frame this up and you've done so beautifully, I'm reminded that what you're saying here that this is a human problem >> that we need to circle back to our capacity, our training, our knowledge, our shared experience and then look at the software. I mean, is that fair or is that just me projecting [laughter] my problem? Because I asked this question even in my own business at the American Nonprofit Academy. >> I've gone there where I'm like this is a piece of crap software and then you know I'm like I want to throw it all out. >> Yeah, [laughter] I hear you. That happens quite often. Um but ultimately like no matter how much software you're using or or how well you're using it um like it is always it's a human issue like getting the data out, putting the data in. Um, it's always related to the people that are doing that and ultimately like you need to support your people in being able to do that well and and support them in uh being able to understand like where the data is messy or where it's missing or how to use more tech to help tell them that. Um but yeah ultimately like we can't do anything with our data or anything with our software without the humans. >> Yeah I you know and I think it's fascinating because for me this question and the way to level set this conversation it's fascinating to start with this right because it comes back on us and what our our human operating system is right like how are the people around us navigating um technology and looking at it. So part of this this next question I think is absolutely fascinating because it kind of dovtales to this and it asks what are your tech priorities. Um I'm curious about this Christine because how do you know like you don't know what you don't know. So how can you answer this or how can you even formulate it? >> Yeah. So the thing I always tell people is to start with your end point. Like what are you ultimately looking to get out of this? Like if some of your frustration is like, "Look, I really want to be able to come up with this regular reporting for my board, but I can't figure out how to do that right now." Start with what you're looking for and make sure that you're clear on what you are not currently getting that you really need. Um, you know, and then you can kind of trace that back and see, okay, where are the inputs missing or where are the steps missing? um and look at both your internal and external reporting needs and all of that. Um but make sure that along the way you're thinking about the people, the processes, the communication integrations. Maybe your data is coming from multiple different points and you want to be able to pull that all together. Um, think about automation and the user needs and your audience like who is the output going to be for and also who are the people taking care of the input. Um, and obviously cost and feasibility is another thing to think about, but you should really do a full evaluation of your priorities before you, you know, start thinking about any decisions. >> Really interesting. Um, I'm fascinated that you would like the starting point is the the input and the ending point is the output and everything in between. Um, I don't think we do that. I don't think we ask those questions, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. A lot of the time we're like, I'm putting all of this data in there and I just I can't I can't get anything out. I can't get what I need. But sometimes we don't take the time to really define what it is that we need and define specifically what we're looking for because that can really help us >> define earlier on, okay, what am I not tracking that I need to where am I missing? Um like I want to track information for these five programs, but maybe I'm lumping them all in one bucket in my software. So, it's going to be super manual and super difficult to tease all of that apart and get your reporting out of there. >> So, I've got to ask Christine before we move on to question number three. Should this just be a part of your regular I would say like annual proforma or something that you're always doing because things change. I mean, our programming is changing, our funding's changing. >> This can't be a constant, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. it is hard to change like your uh your priorities as often as everything else changes. Um but yeah, it's not a bad idea to kind of look at this annually, especially like you know, if you're reporting out to a board or an executive committee or something like that and their priorities are changing, um you're probably going to need to take a look at what you're doing that needs to change along with that. >> Smart. Yeah. And that's a that's a brilliant way to think about it, too, because then you're not going to be just chasing your tail. It seems like you'll be more um you'll just be more in tune with what you need to do or what the possibilities are. I would imagine even for budgeting purposes, if you can be answering some of these questions up front, it's going to help you as you navigate forward. Okay, so one and two have been great. Let's talk about number three. Um because this is a really interesting question and that is honestly is everyone at the nonprofit ready to change. >> Yeah, big question. [laughter] Big question. >> Yep, that's a big one. And you know, we we see this come up a lot where like you have some team members that have been there for maybe 10, 20, 30, 40, sometimes 50 years. Um, and they are used to doing what they do in a very specific way. And they're used to using this one specific process, this one specific software. And any change that you make, even if you might think it's minimal, it's going to be significant for them. >> Um, so before you know, before you decide, before you embark on that journey of change, um, it's really important to do some of that pre-work with your team members who will be affected. um to really make sure that you have the buy in. You know, talk to them about their concerns. Um sometimes they might have concerns about the current process or system that they haven't been able to voice before, but just being able to uh to talk about that gives them an opportunity to really realize what's going on. Um talk talk to them about what they need that they can't get right now. And that might also inform your decision like what direction you go. Um, but it's really important here to make sure that your people feel heard and that you're really thinking through and communicating and addressing those needs. I love Christine that you use the phrase journey of change because that's that that to me when you communicate it that way I'm like okay this isn't just going to happen from you know Thursday to when you come in the next Monday. Yeah. This is going to be a process. And it it just immediately kind of allowed me to think, okay, we all are gonna have to be rowing in this direction. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Very interesting. Um and and people are afraid of change. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Like a really threatening thing. Um, I've gotta believe too when we have nonpr nonprofit labor staff that's overwhelmed and burdened with a lot of responsibility, underresourced, and then you're asking them to change um or adopt a whole new process, it's probably a little threatening. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, change is hard. Change is hard for everybody. And it happens all the time like in our personal lives when we don't have control over things. It it makes us feel, you know, um kind of all over the place sometimes. So the more we can address that with things that we can control, like a change in process, a change in technology, um the more supported your folks are going to feel and the better that whole changeover process will be in the end. Yeah, I think that's incredibly wise. Um, and it kind of dubtales to almost your first question, you know, about, you know, do we really need to make a change or do we just need to understand what's available and maybe seek refinement um versus like completely changing out. Um, it's really it's such an interesting conversation to be having this with you. I would say too, you know, during a time of tremendous change just because of AI. >> Yeah. >> I mean, everybody's freaked out about it and everybody's talking about it. Um, so this is even more of an interesting dialogue right right now as we look at what's going on in the sector. >> Yep. Yeah, for sure. Um, and I know, uh, Patricia Buisa was on here a few days ago talking about AI and she said one of the same things that that I'm going to say it like people sometimes think you can just adopt a new AI, a new technology and slap it on and that will solve all of your problems. [laughter] Um, but I think we know that that's not true and you really have to like be prepared, have all your foundations in place, um, and make sure you understand what's going on. Um, like I can't tell you the number of people that have come to me with like, you know, my client has this accounting system and they're not able to to do this. They're not able to get this report or like have this data feed in from their CRM or whatever. And so they want to switch over to this more complicated, probably more expensive system. Um, what do you think? And I'm like, let's understand the problem. Um, what are they really trying to get to? What decisions are they trying to make with this data? And then see like half the time their current system actually can get that for them. they just need to rethink how they're using the system and kind of apply best practices to um how they're inputting the data, how they're tracking it, and then they can kind of solve for that problem um before it occurs. >> Yeah, it's kind of like take a deep breath moment here and and step back. Um really interesting way to to look at this whole conversation. So, let's move along a little bit in this chain of decision making. Um, maybe you do need to make a change. Maybe your team is ready. Maybe you're ready to become more sophisticated, uh, more analytical. Maybe you have now the resources, the funding to make these investments. Um, what do you look for if you're going to choose software that maybe you have never worked with before? I'm not saying upgrading or adding new bells and whistles, but I mean really like, okay, we're pivoting from product A to product M. >> Yeah. >> What is what should we be looking for? >> Yeah, that's a that's a great question. Um, and you know, first I would say like um the the more popular products have bigger user bases and you can often find like support communities or forums on online where people are talking about that product. Um, so you can do a little bit of research or or have AI help you do some of that research and see what people are saying about some of the solutions out there. Um, and also note that the benefit to that to using like more popular products is that you will have a bigger support community if you end up going with that. >> Um, but then also like look at what other folks in your vertical are using. Like if you're an arts and culture organization um, and you maybe you're looking for a new payroll solution, look at what other arts and culture organizations that you may know of are using for that. like talk to your peers and find out what are they using for bill pay, what are they using for payroll, for their accounting system, for their CRM and why and is it working well for them? Like talk to as many people as you can. Um talk to your, you know, your auditor or your accountant like YPTC. We often have a pulse on that as well. Um and you know, you can get a feel for what other people are using that works well. Yeah, I love that you brought up, you know, the the sector within our sectors, right? I mean, it's it's really important thing. If you're running a dog shelter, you're going to need different things than if you're running, you know, an afterchool program, right? I mean, it's a fascinating thing to um kind of step back and and realize you're going to have needs that are met one way or the other. Um, fascinating. I also really liked what you said about um if you go with something a little bit more mainline, your support's going to be easier to find. >> Exactly. Yeah. We sometimes have people come to us where um they have been using an accounting system that they really like, but it's a very very niche system. And often the problem is they're like, "Well, if I want a specific report, I have to go back to the makers of the software and have them custom build a report for me." >> Yeah. >> Or if I can't figure out how to do this thing, nobody else knows how to do it. [laughter] >> Um, so that's one of the one benefits of having a wider used system is like a lot of people will know how to use it aside from the makers of the software, >> you know. So interesting. We had uh Katie Warick on recently and she is the uh owner of Staffing Boutique and she was saying about when you're looking to expand your team or replace team members, if you are using specific software platforms, list that in the job description because then candidates that come through um you're not going to have to invest in the training to that extent. you'll have more confidence that you can bring somebody into that team um small or large, right? And you'll have people that are are ready to go versus falling in love with a potential candidate and then finding out they've never worked with anything in your software suite >> and you're like, "Oh man, we're gonna have to we're gonna have to train them up. They're bright. they can be trained up. But you know if you have if you had put forward that you had declared what your software was beforehand you everybody would have probably been in a better place. Um okay let's talk about the big elephant in the room and that is implementation. Um we were talking earlier in the very beginning of this conversation. Sometimes there's so much hope involved in looking at new software. You you take a demo and you're just like, "Oh my god, this is going to solve all my problems and I can just switch a button." But that's not really the case, is it? >> No. I mean, I wish so much that it were. I wish with all the problems that our clients come to us with, we could just, you know, hit a magic button and everything would be solved. But unfortunately doesn't happen in real life. Um, a lot of the time, you know, when you do a software demo with a vendor, um, it'll look amazing and it'll look like it can do everything. Um, and it can do it, you know, like that. Um, but that doesn't always happen when you get into it and you start putting your real data into it. So, that's another reason I say like try to look for user reviews and user forums where people are talking about how they're actually using the software and some of the drawbacks it may have. Um, the more people you can talk to who have actually used these solutions, the better. Um, and then when you're implementing, you'll also want to assess the skills of your team. um like for widely used tech sometimes maybe you can implement it yourself if you have um savvy people on your teams who have done similar implementations before um for more niche tech or more complex tech um you'll probably have to use an implementer and you know when you do that just make sure that you have an implementation partner that's really communicative you don't want somebody who just like falls off the face of the planet when something comes up. Um, you really want to make sure that it's somebody who's invested in the relationship and invested in your success too. They should be able to answer your questions about uh complications, integrations, um, customizations, all that kind of stuff beforehand. And that communication is really key. >> Yeah. Can you give us some uh like strategies on embracing an implementation or changeover? I mean, and this is going to sound really hokey, but are there better times of the year or the week or days or what should we be thinking about? Because what I'm hearing you say is that you got to plan for this. You got to plan for the the >> the organization to to to go through this. What are some things we should be thinking about? >> Yeah. Um, and so like that question on timing, that's a great one. We'll often have people come and say, "All right, I want to implement this at year end. I want to start the new year on a fresh, you know, payroll system or accounting system or whatever it is." Um, but sometimes doing a software implementation at your end is a lot harder because you're also closing out the year. you're also getting ready for your audit. You're also getting all your fun reports ready. Um, so there's a lot going on and it can just, you know, it can extend the timeline a lot. Um, it's often easier and just as feasible to do a switch in the middle of your year. Um, you may want to bring over some data for your old system so you could have the whole year's worth of data in your new system. Um, there are a lot of workarounds that you can do to kind of make it easier, but there's nothing wrong with doing a software change in the middle of the year as long as you're prepared for it. Um, and often like taking that extra burden off of all the folks involved in year end is really helpful. >> Yeah, I think I've fallen into that trap of what exactly what you said. It's like, okay, well, no, got to start a new year and we're going to we're going to have this new program. And yeah, you're right. It's a it's a stressful time in the nonprofit sector anyway because a lot of times our client needs are escalated. We're working with donors, year-end staff. We're working with with staff that takes time off or reduces time at work because of the holidays. I mean, there's a lot going on. And then you layer all this in, it can be quite burdensome. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Well, you're a wiz. I I'm just delighted that you could join us today. Um Christine Choco, wow. This is the person that you want to connect up with when you have all these like tech issues, but you're really having human issues with your tech. And uh this has been a lot of fun. Once again, Christine Choco, manager controller. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I always learned so much from you and I applaud you Christine for you never set my hair on fire, [laughter] right? You you always were like, "Okay, this is manageable. This is a process, you know, [laughter] calm down. >> We need that. We need that in our sector." >> Good. That's always manageable. >> Yeah. I love it. I think that's amazing. Well, there's been a lot to manage this week during nonprofit power week u with our friends over at YPTC, your part-time controller. We've talked about red flags that boards miss. We've been talking talking about AI and that trust factor in human judgment. Um we're going to be talking about how you change your accounting partner and and staff and teams and what what that looks like. Um, again, the questions that you should be asking the finance team and your finance partners, riveting information. Um, and then that software question, questions about your software before you buy. Um, so lots of different information today um that bleeds in and weaves in with all the other things that we've been talking about uh during this nonprofit power week. It's been fascinating. Again, we've had amazing partners throughout this journey and we don't do nonprofit power weeks very often and they're very special because they're a total drill down. Our partners this week have been the amazing folks over at your part-time controller along with Martis Staffing Boutique, American Nonprofit Academy, Boomerang, JMT Consulting, and Third Sector Company. These are the folks that join us day in and day out. Um, so Christine, thank you. It's been a lot of fun. Yeah, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed it. >> Yeah, it's been great. Hey, as we end each and every episode of the nonprofit show, we leave with this message and it goes like this. To stay well so you can do well. [music]