Autism is the New Stolen Valor - Trevor Wallace (4K)

That's really How do I How do I look? Cool. Silence. All right, let's get into [laughter] it. Does anybody You have 19 people on set and everyone's like, "I don't want to tell him. It looks like shit." >> Yeah. See, there we go. >> Look at this. Yes, dude. >> Is that better? >> See, now this is the problem. Now, now that you've asked for feedback, all that you've got is all you've got is like neuroticism and judgement. >> Okay. Yeah. And can you write some better jokes? I'm like [laughter] an outfit. >> Trevor Wallace, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me, Chris. >> Vogue published an article saying having a boyfriend is embarrassing now. >> Have one. >> I figured. Meanwhile, >> men are on dating apps saying that they're looking for a slightly autistic woman. Swaps of men saying they want a girl with a touch of the tism. >> Okay, I just want the touch. I don't even care about the tism. You know what I mean? Like, if whatever they bring to the table, well, I you know what it is? autistic women, like from my experience, they're just passionate. They're just like I just that's all I've ever wanted dating somebody is somebody who's passionate about something, whether it's a career or or or you know, uh train, whatever you're passionate on. I'm passionate for you. Well, you were saying that about uh hot girls that are just good at anything, chess or DJing or crochet stitching or something. >> That that is a a niche. >> Yeah. >> That and you're right as well. I think we like anybody that really loves I just want you to love something. I don't care what your career is, just love it. >> Can that be you? Can the something be you? What if that what if you are their hobby? >> A part of it? Sure. A part of it? Sure. But like I've been in relationships where somebody didn't have that that that void they wanted to fill of like love and you you almost feel guilty if you're if you're too passionate. I would come home from like a show or filming something and I had so much fun on this set or filming and I love it and then they're like oh that's nice and you're like here we go again. I mean can we get her a zen or something like perk up like [laughter] what are we? So you almost feel guilty. So like I just want to come home and share a communal experience where you're like how was your day? Oh I love that I got to do blah blah blah blah blah. I love that I get to do this. So, I' I found that uh just incredible where you can just both share and not feel this like weird one-sided guilt >> that I'm doing a thing. You don't have a thing to do. >> Yeah. Or a thing to do but they hate it. It's like so many people hate their job, which is totally fine. Like so many jobs suck, but it kind of puts a dampening on the mood if like I'm happy with what I'm doing and then they're like, "Oh, that's cool." Well, my day, oh god, >> I wonder whether that's I wonder whether that's most people >> that that it's kind of tough because not everyone has the the luxury of being able to do a job that they love, but pretty much everybody does have the luxury of being able to get a hobby or an interest or a passion that they love. >> That's the other side of it. So many people hate their job. I have plenty jobs that I hated. I used to work in a kiosk inside of a Costco. I wanted to unal alive myself every day, but the chicken apple sausages samples saved me every single day. Okay. So, I've had those jobs where I hated, but when I was at that job, I would write standup and that would like make me get through the day. Like, that would excite me. So, I just find those things that would excite me through it. So, back to autism. I think um whatever your passion is, just be passionate about it. I've I've >> I've I've had I've dated people who have had like uh they've worked in like like their own like they make their own clothes or their own thing and I'm like, I'm so happy for that. And then when they show me a a t-shirt or something where they stitch the pocket on and the pockets a denim shirt, is it going to sell? No. But she loves it and that's what I love. >> Yeah, it's the some of the feedback on the autistic dating thing. It's possible that some of these men are autistic themselves and merely looking for a like-minded partner, but it's more likely that swaths of them are fetishizing neurode divergence. Autistic sex educator Millie Evans. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What is her title? >> Autistic sex educator. >> Let's check her hard drive. What? How do you get into that field? How do you go to NYU and be like, "Okay, hold on. Speaking of trains, let's talk about how they're running them." >> This is also hard to talk about autism when there's so many cars around me right now. There's >> this is the right location to do it. >> Yeah. You got Mater from Cars behind you. You got you got everything in here is is would if I was teed up, which I might be. >> I I have ADHD, I think. I don't know. I did try to take an autism test one day, but it's too many questions. And I think that's my answer. >> Ah, I see. Well, look, autistic sex educator. The way that that's framed, are you somebody who educates autistic people about sex, or are you somebody who is autistic that is a sex educator? That one of my friends is the number one incel researcher on the planet. And he had to rechange the way that he introduced himself as I'm the number one researcher of incelss on the planet. >> Dude, there's too many jobs. >> I'm retracting. He loves it. >> There we go. There we go. He just loves incels. >> So he's the number one incel. >> Number one researcher of incelss, >> which makes him an incel. >> No, I I think well research is me search in many ways. >> Uh but um >> I like that. >> I I mean I've met his I've I've met his girlfriend. He's he seems to be slanging it around >> and he's Irish so that helps. But anyway, yeah. Autistic sex educator Billy Evans has been on dating apps since she was 18. She says it is genuinely wild how often she sees references to autism on people's profiles. I'd like to have a conversation with these people to understand what they're hoping to achieve. She told Dazed. I I I also I feel bad for people who are generally autistic right now because I think there's a lot of stolen valor out there. I think there's a lot of people who are kind of just like claiming it cuz they want to like have something. Like growing up, I wanted to be different so bad in my classroom. I told people I was color blind because I want I wanted something different about me. Mhm. >> Like a teacher would literally point at something blue and I'd be like, "What is that? Gray?" >> Like I would like pretend >> that was your personality. >> Yeah. I wanted to be I wanted to have a thing. And I think >> there is so many people who generally have struggles every day about autism. Then there's some people who are just like I just maybe I'm just autistic. >> No. >> No. That's you're just not. You're you're you're using that as a copout. Like you're using that as like a >> oh well I don't know. I'm just autist like it's not there's a lot of undiagnosed autism which isn't really diagnosed. >> I can't remember who it was that said this to me but they said like most mental health maladies are both underdiagnosed and overdiagnosed at the same time. There's people who don't have it saying they do and there's people who do have it that don't know that they do. Like those two groups don't the ven diagram isn't actually that big of how much crossover. >> Yeah. So I feel like it's almost like a copout sometimes but like if you generally if you do have it then more power to you. But I I it's interesting people are putting it on dating apps. >> I didn't >> maybe with Love on the Spectrum being so big, they're like they're like this is my end. I do love Love on the Spectrum. That's one of my favorite shows ever. I mean >> unreal. >> But like the passion behind anybody on that show is like like oh I only care about dragons. Like what about a girlfriend? They're like you're not a dragon. Shut up. >> And then the mom has to be like no you need to get married. And then the guy be like well does she like dragons? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. James is a great guy on there. Um, they all have swords and you know, and dude, they're making alcohol drinks, they're driving cars. I'm like, dude, these guys are living the life. >> Yep. >> Not and I, not that I didn't think they couldn't do either of those, but a little bit, >> but I mean, I was I like loved their passion behind it. [snorts] >> Uh, one of the interesting lines on this was, "How did we get to a stage where neurotypical men feel comfortable enough to make jokes about wanting an autistic girlfriend on apps like Hinge?" So, You have a you have a problem here. If you said uh I like autistic girls, that's you fetishizing neurode divergence. But if you also put no autists, uh that's you being exclusionary. >> That's racism right there. [laughter] >> I don't know. I I think you're just not allowed to really have an opinion on it. It's like if you're pro, if you say I like big girls, you're fetishizing like fat. And if you say like no fatties. >> Well, you're saying you're Drake. >> There it is. >> You just did a Toronto show. That's a call back. But >> it was his birthday the night that we were there. >> Oh, wow. >> It was my show, Drake's thing, and Vibes Cartel all on the same weekend. The night before the Blue Jays play. The biggest I mean, you know, some say the biggest weekend that Toronto's ever had. >> It is. And you still sold it out. >> Yep. Still sold it out. >> That's beautiful. Yeah, thankfully I listed it a long time before any of that happened. >> Right before they got in the World Series, of course. >> [ __ ] I was I really wanted to go to Drake's birthday or Vibes Cartel or the World Series [ __ ] tickets to go see Chris Williamson. I I might as well get my money's worth. [laughter] >> Anyways, if you have What were you saying? You're saying if you only like one thing. >> Basically, if you say that this is a preference of mine, you often get accused of fetishizing what that thing is. >> And if you say that you don't want that thing, then you're being exclusionary. >> Right. >> Right. Like the best example of this is the body positivity stuff which is like I like big girls is fetishizing fat but no fatties is you excluding people who are like of a bigger size. It's really hard to win. >> So what do you just play the middle or you just don't? >> Well I I think that you can't win. I think ultimately ultimately you can't win. Initially jokes about tism started as a social media trend. >> Risen with the tism I Yeah. I've seen that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the neurodyivergent community to describe how their traits have g their romantic interests. I think that you might be on to something with the uh uh love on the spectrum. >> I think that that might be >> well honestly you watch that show and they find such love that like maybe there's people watching that who resonate with them a little bit where they go like oh I'm awkward and shy and dates too. Am am I autistic? >> You know it's it's not a one for one >> and they're not saying like that's cultural approp like neurode divergent cultural appropriation. Well, it's just the meme community has taken over it and it's like risen with the tism is a funny line, but like there's also people out there who are severely autistic and the thought of a date makes them panic and sweat. But then there's a guy or a girl on Hinge being like, "Oh, I'm nervous. I can't make eye contact." No, you're just chronically online and you don't have human contact interactions often. >> Yeah. You haven't seen a person in a few months, >> right? I mean, I I I just think that the meme community's kind of taken over. This is like the first and I don't what would you call autism because it's not a disease. What would you say? It's what this is like the first um uh what would you >> it's like a neurode divergent profile. >> It's like kind of the first human >> condition >> condition that has been really memed >> and everyone's like >> people aren't doing the same thing with HIV. >> Correct. Yeah. Yeah. What would that be? Risen with the haven. >> Yeah, I was trying to think. [laughter] Get laid with the AIDS. [laughter] >> I don't know. Charlie Sheen seems to be doing pretty well. >> Yeah, >> he's crushing it. >> He's doing great. >> Did you watch that documentary with him? >> I did, >> dude. I thought that was I thought that was one of the best things that I've seen. That story at the very beginning where he's the absolutely hammered and the pilot. >> The pilot. >> Hey, come and sit down. Wouldn't it be funny if I put your uniform on? Wouldn't it be funny if I did? It's like honestly he was one step away from Wouldn't it be funny if we just like, you know, blew each other? >> I thought I I thought you were going a different direction. I thought you were going more New York with that. But um yeah, one thing I Yeah, I mean like watching that documentary was so cool. I love watching uh just like the upbringing of people's success stories. Like I used to in college go on like every famous person that I admired like Wikipedia and I would just be like how did they get from A to B to C to like how did they become who they are? And I'd be fascinated. So, seeing all this and finding out that Charlie Sheen was a Nepo baby, uh, blew my mind. I'm like, "Oh, your dad was a famous actor. You're you're best friends with um, you know, the guy growing up." Like, dude, you had no choice but to be an actor. >> Sean Penn. >> Sean Penn. Yep. >> Yeah. So, but I I mean, all bits aside, I thought it was really cool just like watching his upbringing and how he got like what what he got offered Karate Kid or something. >> Yeah. And he already made some commitments. said, "Oh, you've got to stick to your word with this thing." And >> I don't know. I mean, Charlie Sheen is a really good example of someone who I mean, he says it himself basically. He learned the lesson that actions don't have consequences >> that he can kind of >> implode, torpedo the situation, and usually end up not only landing on his feet, but landing on his feet like three [ __ ] levels higher than he was previously. failing forward in a lot of this. Correct. Where >> and that's what all of his co-stars would say. It's like he would get on this like crazy rehab path, bounce back, and then come back even more famous than ever. I'm thinking about picking upratom is what I'm trying to say here. [laughter] I, you know, I'm I I feel like I am like, you know, I need I need >> springboard my career. >> Yeah. I need something. How How do I sell at Madison Square Garden? Let me get a needle. There's got to be one in this garage. Uh yeah, I I think it's fascinating seeing somebody who how hard do people work like you know you with how obsessive you are about bits and and and and drilling your set and working and then we're going to you know release it at this date and a social campaign to build up and do all the rest of this stuff in a desperate attempt to try and gain little 1%s here and now even half percent [clears throat] you know like if you think >> how many shows would you reckon that you do including spots would you do over a 12-month period from like special to special? Oh, damn. >> 200, 300. >> I mean, just this past week, I did nine sets and that was over two nights. Five shows, one night, four shows on Saturday, Tuesday 5, Saturday 4, which I'm fortunate enough to be able to do because all the comedy clubs in LA are incredible. And um I've just been working at it for, you know, a decade and they're, you know, they're like, "All right, cool. >> You're one of our regulars when Yeah. Whenever you need, we got you. here's this. So, I can kind of time it out where I'm doing a show at the Laugh Factory, then I go to the comedy store, then I go to the improv, then back to the Laugh Factory for the late show. And it's like I've got it all dialed in. But I love doing that. I I say the sets in town are like gym reps, and then then on the road is when you're out there doing the Iron Mans and and all that. So, um this in a year, I mean, I I really wish I had an answer, but >> it could be like five. It could be more than 500. >> Yeah, >> almost certainly would be if you're doing this. >> There's definitely more than there is days in the year. Okay. So, let's let's say that you do like 400, right? You keep on a lower. So, and you need to get 60 minutes >> by the end of a year. >> So, you're talking about like not far off. What's that? Like 15 seconds a night is what you're developing. >> Oh, I see what you're saying. >> Right. So, it's such a tiny proportion of the overall thing. Each individual rep contributes this like weeny weeny weeny weeny bit. And then you have somebody like Charlie Sheen who just seems to maybe by virtue of his talent or time. I don't think it's timing because you'd say, "Oh, it, you know, he timed the market. It's coincidence, whatever." >> You can't do that for a whole career. You can't write off fluke and chance and coincidence for a four decade, five decade career. Like that's impossible. So, I'm just I'm kind of fascinated by people who if you were to take the headlines of how they've behaved should not have ended up being particularly successful. Like you should have >> kamicazi Harry carried your own career like seven times over by the age of 40. >> I think it's buzz meets talent. The buzz of the headlines where you're like who it's this guy? Cuz if you see he's out of rehab, you're going to want to watch his first show back. You're going to want to watch the first episode be like dude how is this guy? And then you flip it on and he's an incredible actor and you're like, "Oh, all right. I guess he still got it." And then it's rotation of always being in the news, whether it's for partying too hard, whether it's for dating somebody's too famous or going to rehab. >> That first episode out, he's the more you're in the headlines, the more your name is just relevant. And then when that show or the movie drops, you're like, "Dude, it's [ __ ] Charlie Sheen. He's a party. I I got to watch this guy." So, it's kind of like he's staying relevant even on the screens and off the screens and you're just fascinated by his life. >> There's certain people that I look forward to watching their Instagram stories cuz I know they're clinically insane and I go, "This is going to be good." >> Liver King >> uh I don't follow him anymore. >> I don't know if I ever did. >> I haven't for a while. It was been a couple of years since I watched it. He made me uncomfortable. >> But Oh, dude. I mean, yeah, he he I would imagine has good stories. Well, have you seen him recently? It's like a descent into what appears to be meth fueled like insanity. Like absolute insanity. >> Okay. He's still going he's still like cuz he went to Austin. He got arrested for bringing a gun, saying he was going to fight Joe Rogan and then Yeah. It it's it's actually kind of uncomfortable. It's like uncomfortable. >> But that's kind of the Charlie Sheen approach cuz that first podcast back he did. >> Yeah. So, >> but he's also Yeah. what you saw with Charlie that I think is like a really cool lesson here, >> it worked as long as ultimately the thing that he did was good. >> But then when he did the live tour that was a mess and he was still a mess and he was in the middle of his Tiger Bloods like you know winning era and they tracked him around that outside of the shows. I'm sure that some people enjoyed it, right? Because they just wanted to be in the aura of Charlie Sheen. But a lot of people outside like that was the worst thing I've ever seen in my life. That was a total catastrophe. You waste of money, overpriced, underdelivered. D. So this is this lesson that I've seen for ages is people will forgive pretty much anything as long as you're still good at the main thing that you do. If Kanye drops an absolute [ __ ] slammer of a next album, >> people will still listen to it. And in a weird way, >> it kind of forgives tons of the sins that he's commit. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> Whereas if he falls off, >> all of the criticism personally, privately, uh culturally gets legitimized, >> stays at the top. >> Yes. Through his like lack of professional success. But I think we just we revere talent and success so much. >> Yeah. >> That we're just happy to forgive pretty much anything as long as someone is kind of good at what they do. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I as a man who put a Kanye song on my Spotify recently, I go, "Ah, this doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel but you know he's also just like clinically like insane. Like that's I don't like when the media will like film him and be like Kanye crashed. I'm like yeah he's [ __ ] off the rocker. He's in >> Britney Spears in 2007. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Correct. Britney S with a new haircut. She's schizophrenic. >> She shaved her head and she has an umbrella. It's 98 degrees outside. Like I don't like when news articles post that like it like it's like they're not insane. Like they're like, "Oh, Kanye's having a weird day. He's [ __ ] in the head." >> Yeah. >> It's It's just like It's crazy that we just film everybody doing this and then like who's actually helping these people. That's a good point because if it was somebody Well, I mean, I was going to say if it was somebody that was going through a drug addiction, that wouldn't be tracked, but then you look at Kate Moss, you look at Pete Dockardy from back in the day, you look at Amy Winehouse. >> Um, the downfall of talented people, the potential downfall, and basically kind of like watching it a car go toward another car and going like, are they going to hit? Is that going to happen? or are they going to be able to miss it and then turn around and then they go again and then oh they fix them so on and so forth. >> It is more amusing to watch and listen there's thousands of people that probably try to help Kanye on a day-to-day basis but it to your point it is more interesting to watch somebody like the the car crash analogy like are they going to land this plane? Are they gonna Yep. >> is Kanye gonna figure this one out or is he going to release a new album and it's all in German? [laughter] featuring Elon Musk. You've Have you interviewed Elon? >> Uh, no, not yet. Um, we considered we we were talking to his team a little while ago, I think. >> Is that a busy period of the last 12 months? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's >> But naming his kids QR codes and [ __ ] [laughter] >> Listen, I'm Jewish, so he those two guys are oppressing my people. Well, you say that, but you added him to your Spotify. >> We should cut to an ad. [laughter] >> In other news, I've been drinking AG1 every morning for years now. Dude, you tried to fast ball me that. That was down the plate and I've just show Otani. I've been drinking AG1 for as long as I can remember. It is the best all-in-one drink that I've ever found. And that's why I'm such a fan of them. And that's why I partnered with them as well. I have got my mom to start taking it, my dad to start taking it, and all of my friends as well. And if I found anything better, I would switch. But I haven't. Why do you keep throwing it at the mic? Stop throwing it at the mic. See? Anyway, uh over 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients. Got probiotics and prebiotics. Also NSF certified, meaning that even Olympians can use it. And in the throat. In the throat. How dare you? I hit the I [laughter] hit the [ __ ] Ah. Ah. This isn't even an ad read anymore. It's just a war zone. Oh, okay. Okay. Anyway, if you too want something to throw at your friends or a tasty uh blend of 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food sourced ingredients designed to drink first thing in the morning in one scoop, it's here. Go to drinkagg1.com/moddermwisdism for stuff. Thank you. But you know, Connie was only a feature on the song. He It wasn't his full It was his song with Rick Ross. Devil in a new dress. I mean, have you heard this song? Rick Ross' verse carries the whole thing. >> Okay. >> And back from the commercial break. [laughter] >> I don't care. Keep it all in. >> Pull the [ __ ] eject the seat button. >> I don't care. Keep it in. Uh, I need to talk about how much you drink Celsius. >> Let's talk about it. >> Yeah, it's too much. >> Do I drink a lot of it? >> You know, >> you talk about it. >> It's your go-to. It's like the canonical I'm I need caffeine. I talk about this, drink. >> Uh, >> we got a cease and desist from a large energy company. Um, because of something that my co-founder said for the co-founder for this thing. Um, >> what did they say? Uh they said that we made >> wings >> uh they may have said that what he said was this and we have this like I'm gonna it's printed off and framed. Um uh like as is seen in exhibit 9.3.2 uh your uh Mr. Smith said that our clients drink quote tastes like piss and is quote consumed by chronic [ __ ] Um >> are we still talking about the intel guy? [laughter] Anyway, uh I want to get you off. >> Please. Yeah, send me send me these. >> Yeah, you need more. You need something that's >> Yeah. Celsius. I mean, it's just like the energy during game is I mean, dude, they're they're supercharging. They're spiking Panera lemonades. >> Panera. Do you know Panera Bread? You don't know Panera Bread? Holy [ __ ] you're rich. Panera Bread is like uh French Subway. >> You know, I've been Subway. I went into one. >> Panera. So they put out this like lemonade, a char double charged lemonade has 400 milligrams of caffeine. >> Okay. Was this something that killed two people? Yes. Yes. I don't know if it was kids, but it did kill two people. >> Okay. That's >> That's America. >> Correct. I mean they were they were going to die from that broccoli cheddar cheese soup anyways. And to the families of those people, I'm sorry, but I mean I think they got a refill. I think that's where it was. You could have unlimited refill. So they had like 800 millig I believe. though. >> Well, it shows it's tasty. >> Yeah. >> If you're going to consume two big gulps of that, also not rich, British. There's a difference. Okay. We have Gregs. You familiar with Gregs? You mean >> who? >> Gregs. >> Well, that's what is that? >> Gregs is a bakery in the UK. It makes probably the best sausage rolls on the planet, some may say. Uh, and the >> Is there a competition for that? >> Kind of. The UK is basically split into North and South. North is Greg's, South is Pretan. Uh, and that's kind of like the >> I think pamonganji is in this drink. [laughter] Okay. So, there's a pig in a blanket. That's what we call America. >> They do that sort of stuff. Really? No. Sausage roll would be wrapped in pastry rather than like, you know what I mean? >> And it's a sausage. Yes. >> I take it from the name. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. But >> what's that? >> Panera bread. >> Pan bread. But like the energy, I mean, >> I remember when Red Bull came out, it was like revolutionary. In sixth grade, this kid Josh Fleming took a sip of one at a bowling alley and I remember he took one sip and started sprinting like it was very performative and we're all in sixth grade. We were like, "Why is this crazy amounts of caffeine >> and you thought he was black?" Because you're color blind. >> I was color blind and he fun fact is Korean but [laughter] no he is mixed. I believe his his dad is black, but we thought 98 gram of caffeine was crazy. And now Celsius is 200, but now there's drinks out there with like 300 and 400 and it's >> What's the barometer? I I think a cup of coffee is like 120. >> You need to ask Huberman. Humans in later on. We can ask him. >> Oh, you're going from me to Huberman. That's great. That I mean the the the amount of brain cell you're losing a bunch of brain cells and you're gaining it back with Hubberman. Then you're leaving this studio leveled. Uh, you seem like a a pretty positive guy overall. >> I think >> I'd say so. I mean, I don't know how much of it is, you know, comedic persona versus sort of genuine disposition. At least in my experience, like having spent a good bit of time around comedians, >> most people's comedic personas are just kind of like a tuned up version of who they are. Very few of them are a total U-turn, like someone who's crazy extroverted and outgoing on stage, but is like >> doesn't have any of that energy internally. because I I don't think that the depth of insight you I don't think that people would be able to get that. Jimmy Car is a great example of this. Like Jimmy is just more Jimmy on stage and less Jimmy when he's in private. Um but I see >> a good bit of sort of cynicism on the internet and a good few reasons to be cynical. There's lots of stuff that's hard and [ __ ] people have got [ __ ] jobs and neurody divergence and the world's going to [ __ ] and all this stuff. I'm interested in >> that positivity or like how you combat cynicism. Even in the world of comedy, like there's a lot of cynicism, backbiting, like dramy stuff. >> No, I just think it's a like that kind of resilience seems to be pretty good for you. >> As long as I'm working, I'm pretty happy. I I find happiness in work. I find happiness in being productive. Um, where I get down in my head is when all this work I'm doing feels like it's for nothing. when I hit a streak and there's a streak of videos that are all eating [ __ ] and I'm going but I'm working so hard and it's not doing well. That's when I can really that's when my like um you know toxic trade is I hone in only on that week. I don't look at anything else I've done. I don't look at any other accomplishments or any other videos I go but these four videos in the past week ate [ __ ] Does that mean I'm [ __ ] And I get super in my head about that. But now it's like and kind of catch that and go, "Okay, well, you're probably overworked because this didn't bother you in the past." It's like, "Okay, well, when was the last time I got any exercise? When was the last time I went to the gym? When I when did I do anything for myself to get out of this rut?" So, that's when I can kind of like catch it. But [snorts] as far as positivity, it's like there's just I just love what I do so much that by doing this, it's I'm living my dream every day. So, it's like why wouldn't I be happy? the the the times I get mad is when I'm on some [ __ ] general meeting with Tuby and they're like, "So, what's your show idea? [ __ ] you. How about that?" Because it's not gonna happen. We're going to I'm going to pitch a show. You're going to give your [ __ ] notes. I'm going to give my notes. And then it just stays in this rut for hours. >> I love the internet because I can have an idea right now. I can leave here, film it, upload it, connect my people, >> and like there's no middle ground. >> There's no gatekeeper. >> No, there's so many gatekeepers in in uh the industry. And I just feel like creativity is a rare feeling and you have to strike on it when it hits. And and what's funny today might not be funny tomorrow, might not be funny in a year, might not be funny in 5 years, 10 years, whatever it is. So when creativity hits, it's a blessing and you can't block it. You can't >> like if you're feeling creative, make that video. If you're if don't be like, well, I'll make it tomorrow morning when I have more free time. It's like >> no because you're going to get to the next morning and you're going to be like, what was that? How did I end that again? what was the and you're not going to feel that spark. So when you're hitting this creativity just that's like that's your sign. That's the creative gods being like go make this go make this. And where I found the stress to be is I'm like hey guys I'm feeling this creative energy. Let's do this thing and well we can set you up with >> red tape. You can't do it when you want. Here's some bureaucracy. >> Exactly. So I don't know how I got on that. Um >> that's perfect. There's an idea from Naval Raban. He says inspiration is perishable. Act on it immediately. Yeah. >> Same thing. And I've had those moments where I get an idea and I love the idea and I go, "I need to shoot this. I need to shoot this." And then I sit on it and then, you know, I open my phone one day and then somebody makes an idea like that and I go, "Damn it. >> I had that idea. I should And then you like want to mess that person like, "Dude, I had that idea, too." And they're like, "Okay." >> You didn't ship it. >> Didn't see it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I've also sat on videos that I didn't edit. I shot them. I didn't edit them. I didn't get them done. And then somebody does the same thing and I go, "Oh, I should have, but I didn't." M >> so one of the most common question there's a Q&A thing at the end of the the live show and one of the most common questions that people are asking is something to the effect of I'm 23 and um I'm I'm working real hard at this job that I do or this career that I'm in or this business that I'm building. Uh but I know that work life balance is kind of important and I don't want to I don't want to waste all of my time uh not like being present or like being mindful or whatever it might be. And um one of the issues with that that I see is a lot of the people who have a platform like a big enough platform to be able to talk about how they got to the place that they're at. Let's say it's it's Rogan or Tom Seagura or yourself or whatever. Most of the guys are a little bit older than you are. And by that point they are in the work life balance mode. They are talking about I like to spend time with my kids and this is important. But that's not how they got there. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. >> So the rule is model the rise not the result. >> Oo I like that. >> So >> can we put that on a shirt? >> Model rise not the result. Because if you ask somebody like how did you get to where you are? A lot of the time people talk about what they do now. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not what they did when they were at your stage. My point is when people say I'm 23. I'm crushing it at this thing, but I think I should do work life balance. I think they're taking the wrong message for the wrong time. And what you're saying here is you have the freest discipline ever because it doesn't take any discipline for you to go and do nine spots in two nights. Yeah. >> It's just obsession. Yeah. >> Right. So if you think about um >> obsession, discipline, and motivation. So motivation is uh I want to go and do the thing. Discipline is I tell myself to go and do the thing and obsession is I can't not do the thing. Yeah. >> Right. So, it's like you're being ripped forward by this. And what I'm seeing to try and tie this up [ __ ] big mess I've made up into a bow. People who are obsessive are basically questioning, should I purposefully not use all of this free fuel that I'm getting to try and make some [ __ ] happen in the world in order to do the work life balance thing? What they don't realize is that obsession will wayne over time. Like you that is going to be a sort of depreciating fuel source. I'm like, dude, this is the freest motivation and discipline that you're ever going to get because you literally can't not do the thing. >> So, you might as well just completely [ __ ] like send it. Take a flamethrower to the candle. Like, forget burning it at both ends. kind of the same way that you are because in 10 years time maybe it's going to be tougher for you to like force yourself to do nine sets in two nights or maybe you can't maybe you've got restrictions or responsibilities or some other [ __ ] going on correct >> and you think >> [ __ ] I wish I'd really sent it when it was there when the fuel source was free and also that's when you accumulate the skills that allow you to kind of ride the wave going forward because you do have to earn your keep you've got to accumulate the skills and the talents and the experience you But I might as well do that again when it's freest, easiest, etc., etc. So, yeah, this obsession thing, obsession, motivation, discipline I've been playing with for a while. And I think it relates at least a little bit to what you're talking about. >> Yeah, sorry, I just heard an airplane and I'm severely autistic. [laughter] No, I I totally agree. And I mean, as as I'm a sucker for a motivational podcast quote, I'm a sucker for anything that kind of sparks that. And the the overarching thing you see in a lot of these is like just start. But so many people go like, "Well, what if that's not my passion?" All right, [ __ ] it. Don't do it. Oh, what if I don't like then don't do like try all these things. The amount of different types of videos I tried before I found like what my own voice was. >> Very similar to standup. I think everybody starts standup with their favorite comedians in the back of their head influencing how they write. You know, I first started, I thought I thought I could write like Bill Burr. I'm like, I'm not a guy from Boston. I I don't I'm not him. I'm not I'm nowhere near anywhere near as good as this guy. and like but you watch and you're influenced and then you like chisel away and you go okay well now I'm watching more of this guy and then now I'm watching some of her and then you like kind of just form so over time you find what your passion is you find your voice and it's just about the journey so going back to what you were saying with the rise of it it's like >> I put everything aside when I was coming up because I I couldn't wait to be done with my 9 to5 when I'd be done with my 9 to5 at 5m p.m. I would drive to an open mic and go do that. So week weekdays was open mics and then Saturday I'd shoot a sketch, Sunday I'd post it or sorry Saturday I'd shoot it, Sunday I'd edit, Monday I'd post it. And that was that was my that was when it was slower. This was prevertical videos. This was horizontal. This is when YouTube was this >> YouTube right. >> This is this is like 2017 to 2019. This was like right before kind of pandemic when everything started taking off vertically. Vertically it's a new it's it's a new game. Like when I got in, one video a week was like good. That was like fine. And I was like, one sketch a week. And now, dude, now it's like I'm I'll talk to my like Instagram or Tik Tok reps and like, yeah, I should be posting like three to four times a day. That sounds annoying. >> That's too much. >> So, it's a different ballgame getting in now. But there's also less care about production. There's less care about um I say that when there's 19 cinema cameras around me, there's less care. I I I think if I posted a clip of you saying something to my iPhone and then just one of these from this camera, there's just as good of a chance that the iPhone >> I think the iPhone one wins. >> It might. But and when people are watching a more long form content, they're going to want this camera, they're going to want the sound, but you know, everything on my page is either shot on an iPhone or like a cinema camera or like it's always constantly changing. I'll upload a sketch from a Ring camera and I'm being dead serious because I just want to switch it up. I just want to try everything. I'm constant. >> You could just use Sora for that. Apparently the [ __ ] That's the >> It's getting close. >> It's getting close. I've I've tried to use it a few times and it's like I'm such a hands-on guy when it comes to editing that I want to be like >> Do you still edit your own stuff? >> No, but I'm just hands-on with it. Like I meet with my editor shoulder of Yeah. >> Yeah. I meet with my editors a lot. And I'm just like like there'll be times I'm giving notes over my computer. My editor lives like 10 minutes from me. Shout out John. The best guy in the biz. And I'm like, "Dude, just come over. It's 1:00 a.m. and we're like, "Just just trim that. Just trim that one word right there." And just just cuz I'm super hands-on with it, which is a blessing and a curse. I think it slows down production a little bit because I'm because I I won't post it because I'm like, "Well, you misspelled this or or or I just I wish it opened on this frame right here." So, it's some people are like, you know, make your sacrifices and be like, "I just post it. Now I can focus on something else." But I'm the guy who's up at or crackod dawn or like 3:00 in the morning like just trying to chisel away at something cuz I'm like this is how it should be. Before we continue, if your sleep's been off, taking ages to fall asleep, waking up at random times or feeling groggy in the morning, Momentous's sleep packs are here to help. They're not your typical knock you out supplement just overloaded with melatonin. 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Winning in the weeds with stuff like that. It's interesting that you said um the sort of dark sides and light sides to that. It's amazing when it comes to refining a bit down. There's this great video of Mark Norman talking about the um I met a girl on that Jewish dating app. What's it called? PayPal. And it's a video of him from when he first has the idea and he's sat in his car. And then it I don't know what I don't think he has a video guy that follows him all the time, but he must have done for this. and iterating and iterating and iterating and he like tried Venmo and he tried like Cash App and he tried PayPal and on the timing and everything and you watch the you know whatever it is 15 seconds per night change like slowly incrementally over time and um that is another type of obsession you can't not do it I can't not think about this joke I can't not think about this podcast I can't not think about for me some of the ideas I've just going to bed trying to [ __ ] get my brain to chill out and >> I can't I I'll be laying there roll over to my notes tab like my eyes are closed >> because that's part of the obsession. >> Yes. Because I'm like very very staunch with phone can't be in bedroom. My solution for this has been I leave my AirPods out of the case on the bedside table next to me and then I put them in and it goes I go tomorrow 10:00 a.m. remind me that an unteachable lesson is you should lie in a hammock more or whatever. but then it tries to transcribe it and I wake up the next day and at least 50% of the time it's [ __ ] gibberish. >> Yeah, you should lay in a hamcock more and you're like [laughter] is that what they're selling at Gregs these days? >> I'm like, "Oh, fuck." But anyway, that like you're you're right. And I think um it's brilliant and is lorded quite rightly so seeing someone that's a craftsman. >> But I love it. Yeah. >> The guy that owns this place, you know, it's evident that he really [ __ ] cares about the cars and he's tinkering with them working. Like isn't that [ __ ] cool? But also when you try and have that in your private life. >> No. >> So in the battery's dead for the just for the Ferrari. Yeah. It was in Ferris Buer. You know that >> it's mine. >> That obsession stuff is great in your professional life but really [ __ ] in your personal life. >> Awful. It's like I I've told everyone I've ever dated. But I'm like, I don't think it's fun dating me cuz it's like I just love work so much that it like it's hard for me to be really present. Everything I'm doing whether even when I'm not working, I'm working. I'm watching a show, we're at dinner. It's like I was at a lunch yesterday with my girlfriend and this high school couple starts arguing next to us and I immediately pull up my notes app and I go, "Okay, what's what's the angle of this? What's the angle of this? But she's great too and she's very funny and she's like also like okay what [clears throat] if you write this down? What if you >> So I'm always on but >> if you see it as not like disrespect of you and you're like dude this is how's his brain works then I think it's fun. Then everyone can get in on it. >> She's in on it >> or your friends are in on it. Like for instance, a couple of my friends that uh a few are writers. I live with one of them, George. And uh he'll see [ __ ] that's amazing but just not quite right for him. >> And I just get I >> it must be like going out and partying with Dan Bilzerian back in the day. The like trickle down effect >> of being around him. There's a blast radius of like good [ __ ] that he's dude. This story from Winston Churchill. I can't use it, but it's going to [ __ ] destroy on the pod. So he'll send me stuff in the same way or we'll be out at dinner and I'll be I'm trying to think that I'm trying to work this idea out. I think I think there's something there. It's like obsession, motivation, discipline. Oh, well, why don't we, you know, we'll come up with a name for it. We can do this. That's sick. >> I love it. >> But if it's like I should be obsessed over which frame this particular cut needs to be in to make it maximally funny or whether it's PayPal or Venmo or Cash App and I need to refine this little piece down. But if it's trying to like optimize your relationship or pay too much attent be obsessive about your relationship in a way that's like Ryan Long taught me this that we love and lord in ourselves like the attention that we pay and the amount of detail like the resolution we're like oh wow I'm so locked in. You want to be able to turn it off when it comes to like your relationship with your parents. But that's not the way it works. You don't get to compartmentalize. I feel not like myself when I turn it off. When I'm like being too serious or talking to anybody and I'm like I'm not being my true self. I'm like this is boring. >> Like when I feel like I have to like downplay it. Like I had a meeting to write a will. Like my dad's like you need an estate plan. You need to write a will. I mean I was in that I wanted to be like kill me now. Like this is the I don't care who I'm dead. I don't give a [ __ ] The guy well do you want to be an organ donor? And there's levels of the organ donor they can like gouge your eyes out. I don't care. I don't care. I want to upload a video that might bomb. I just want to be anywhere but here. And it's so serious and it's so boring. And I'm just like, is this how you There's no fun in this office. The sterile lighting. We have a Kurig in the corner. If I hear another cure coffee, I will put a gun in my mouth. I just I can't like anybody that takes away from me be wanting to be me, I'm like this is miserable. This is not what I want to be. That's why standup comedy is like the most beautiful form of entertainment in the world. It's like it's just you're just there's really no limitations on it. >> You can just be your yourself and I have to blind myself up there cuz I don't want, you know, the thought of, you know, if I see someone in the front row with their arms cross, you know, now I'm in my head. Now it's like chipping away at like being myself. But I just love standup so much because you could just be yourself and you're not like trying to form to like the something where I like hate is like just the small talk at like a wedding or just small talk in general. I'm like I'm not going to give you my personality. I'm not I'm just like it just feels like so ping ponging back and forth, >> so boring. >> Anything I can do to not be in that. And whether it's I'm I'm constantly just talking to myself because that's where I know I can bounce ideas off myself. Instead of like talking to some random guy at a wedding, I'm like, "Ah, what's funny?" I'm writing down myself cuz I can be funny to myself and I can like talk to myself. >> It's cool to enjoy the landscape of your own mind. >> Like to be like, "Oh, I don't have anything to do on a plane and the Wi-Fi is broken." Like, >> dude, I love being alone for that reason. >> This is cool. I can actually sit with my thoughts and I know that I'm not going to get distracted and I can do a little bit of >> Dude, I come up with the most ideas when I'm just by myself. Either in conversation with people or it's like I usually travel with a few people for shows and whatnot, but like if I'm doing a college gig, I'll just fly out by myself. It's there's no glitz and glams. Like I show up to Rowan University and Philadelphia by myself. I do that, get out of there. But those like 48 hours of traveling by myself, I mean, that's when I'm thinking about the most stuff because so much of my day is on meetings or calls or talking to people, doing stuff, giving notes on editing. I'm never really truly alone. And even when I'm alone at home, I'm tired from the full day. So when I'm just like on an airplane by myself, like you said, and the Wi-Fi is out or, you know, that's when I'm like, whoa, I haven't tapped into my own thoughts in a while. What's going on? What's funny to me? Nothing is funnier than I love making myself laugh where it's like I'm just at the airport and I see somebody just doing something so bizarre and I'm like I wish I had somebody to tell it to but instead I'm like oh what's funny here? And I like almost like having this conversation with myself to find the funny. >> This is something that I [snorts] another question that comes up at the live shows is uh how do you retain what you learn? I'm not particularly good at it. I think I've just like been exposed to lot you'll be episode 120 of the show or something. So, even if I took, you know, 1% from every episode, it's still tons of stuff. Um, >> I think one of the things that people struggle with that you've identified there is if you don't have an outlet, there is very little motivation for why you're looking for stuff. You're not scavenging for ideas if there isn't some publish that's happening. If you're not going to turn it into a song or draw it in a an illustration. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. or talk about it on a podcast or write about it in a blog post or you put it on stage for a comedy special or whatever. Like if you're if you don't have a reason to do it, for the most part, you're probably not going to be as motivated to really really seek this stuff out. And I think it's it's a good I I couldn't agree more about the no gatekeeper frictionless thing. That's why Substack's so great. Like nobody needs to understand how to build a website or have a lead magnet or a [ __ ] capture form. It's like social media blogging. Go on. I I have an idea and if it's good, there's an ecosystem of people there that will go, "This is great." And they'll reshare it and now you're a writer. >> You're like, "Nobody stops you from being a writer anymore. You can be a writer like tomorrow." >> Yeah. >> But if you don't have some sort of an outlet, and this is one of the sort of commonalities that I've seen with people that ask like, "How do I retain what I learn?" or um how do I find better ideas or whatever it might be. It's like, well, is there have you got a reason for it other than just I want to have better ideas? So, because I want my blog to be better or my podcast or my music or my drawing or my illustrations or my [ __ ] comedy. Oh, well, if you've got that, that's going to be the the north star that you're going to be working toward. But without that, there's no reason why you're in that, >> right? Cuz you feel like you're just kind of aimlessly shooting something or recording something or writing something. You're like, what is this for, though? >> Yeah. Or maybe you're not even recording it or writing it or shooting something. You're just like wanting to hold on to I'm just going to be funnier round the water cooler or whatever. Like that's not [clears throat] I don't think that's enough motivation. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. I think often times people settle. They go, "Wow, that's good enough." Or they go they immediately get shot down and they go, "Yeah, but then where would that go?" But then where would they like question they doubt themselves right out the gates? They go, "Ah, this is a good uh food recipe, but who who would want to read that? Who would want to?" So, it's like the self-doubt is so strong. I mean, I face that all the time, too. It's like, you know, I I pitch an idea to myself and I go, or even an idea, it's like, I want to do more stuff in the traditional side of things and it's like, yeah, I really want to do this show, but then I got to get a producer and director, right? Then, so it's like it doesn't even make it out. It makes it outside of my mouth, but that's about it. >> And it's like I I shoot it down before I even have done it because I haven't done it. If you've made a TV show, every time you've made a show, it gets easier and easier. But since I've never made a TV show and only done like sketches and stuff like that, to me I'm like, "Yeah, but then I'd have to find a budget and then find a good producer and find out." But once you've done it a bunch, you're like, "It's actually really easy. It's actually like ahead of this person, that person, this person, that person." It's actually quite straightforward. So when you haven't done it, it's easier to doubt it because you no doubt you don't know success. >> Am I cooking? >> Yeah, you are. >> Holy [ __ ] >> But it's >> and I You were talking about knowing like what you retain from stuff. Um, I heard somewhere it's like your brain defaults to negativity because it's a safer place even though the outcome isn't. But like it's it's it's a more familiar place than it is success. >> Mhm. >> So it's like if you swing a bat 10 times and you miss nine, your brain is kind of thinking, well, why would I step up to the mountain? I'm just going to miss. But that one out of 10, >> crank it out. So that that's why I go that's why I post videos cuz for that one out of 10 >> is like that like that I think like whatever >> I think once you go viral it's like a blessing and a curse cuz then it's like a drug. It's like when you go to casino and you hit a slot for the first time. I don't know what you guys call in the UK. [ __ ] But when you the first time >> something else >> oh there we go. She's on your shirt. Just kidding. That's a nice lady. But I remember when I went to this casino when I was 18, it's um they give you a punch card or they give you like a $50 free card and I think they load it up. >> I think it's rigged. I mean, it's a casino. >> Oh, like that thing about uh Tik Tok where one in the first five things that a new account puts up will have a little bit of verality in it. >> Correct. Because then you're it's like I've never done heroin, but you know how they say like you're chasing the dragon or whatever. It's like that with social media. If you have a video that hits a million views, it's almost like you can't even enjoy that million because you're quickly going like, "What's the oh what what can I do next? What can I do next?" And then or you get in your head, you're well, the next thing I do isn't going to be as good as that. Now I get trapped. >> It's like I had this video >> in college. I was on Vine and I had this video do like 14 or [clears throat] 15 million like what was it? Revines, reloops, I never used it. >> I forget what it's called. whatever it is, place. >> But I froze because I was like, I don't know what to make. I don't know what to make. Like, nothing I make is going to be as good as this. All these new fans that are seeing this fans, I had like 10,000 at the time. >> I was like, all these new people are going to see this and be like, ah, it's not as good as the last one. And I froze and I didn't do anything. And then I didn't post anything. And then the next video I did ate [ __ ] because there was I lost all the momentum. >> Yep. So, it's like it blessing and a curse type of thing where it's like, "Fuck yeah, all this video is doing great." And then you're like, "How do I beat it?" That's not the that's not what you should be thinking. You should be like, "How can I make something that I had that same passion for in that first video?" >> Yeah. >> How can I find that same excitement, but you you're chasing that. So, I think to the casino effect, you get views and now you're like, "Oh, I I it's proof that I can do it." Yep. >> How do I keep doing it? The problem is that has now set a standard that you can meet or that you can fail at meeting. >> The very beginning of doing something is brilliant because it's all upside. Yeah. >> You can't eat [ __ ] You haven't done anything before. >> It's like the the higher you climb, the further there is to fall. And I've thought about this. >> I've [snorts] thought about this with the live stuff. So, I'm in the middle of tour at the moment. And um >> you know, this is the first America head America and Canada headline tour that I've done. North America, that's what you guys call it, right? to like come double them together so you don't have to go like >> uh >> it's the first one that I've done >> and now I'm thinking well >> if I don't sell out the town hall in New York again next year that means as opposed to being on the comeup and getting your first debut show in Manhattan to be 1500 people. >> Oh that's you've fallen off >> when there's so much else that also factors into it. >> Yeah, of course the timing of when's the show what is it? Drake's Birthday and Vibes Cartel and the [ __ ] World Series happening at the same time on the same >> Well, I mean, it's Yeah, it's also every year you go on tour, the economy is in a different place and it's never in a great place, but it's definitely not I started touring really heavy right out of the pandemic and there were so many people that were like, "Dude, we've been locked up for all these years. We want to go to something live. Holy [ __ ] Trevor's finally coming to my town. We got to go." And those tickets >> flew off the shelf. I mean, like I I like before I even left for the tour, I think 70% of the shows were all sold out. And now I'm touring again and and I'm using those metrics on those shows and I'm like, let's go bigger in those venues and I'm feeling like, okay, we're taking some really big swings. Some cities like Toronto hit it. Boom. >> Yeah. >> What is it about the Canadian audience? They just want to buy [ __ ] straight away. We love you. >> They want to see how insane Americans are. They want to be like, is is this Trump democracy really getting with them? You know, I don't know. Um, but there's just certain markets and you could talk to any comedian in the world or really entertainer. There's just some markets you just don't sell well. Chicago, I did uh 3,000. Milwaukee couldn't fill a 900 seat room. Now they're like an hourish from each other. >> Did that play into it? I don't know. Is there just are more people >> from that area going to be like, well, let's drive to Chicago for a weekend to go to the big show than to go this Milwaukee one. >> There's just so many factors in it. That sense, right? Oh, I've had a pullback. >> Yeah, of course. It's like >> to your point, I I I I did the Wilturn twice on the size tour. >> What's that? >> It's in Boston. Beautiful venue. And I am doing it twice again on this tour, but there was definitely a thought when I put the first show on sale. I was like, if I'm only doing one, does that mean I'm not this as relevant? or I I did um somewhere in Charleston, South Carolina to start this tour off on tour right now draws.com and I got there and I saw my name on the on the Stone because I performed there and and it said two soldout shows but the last time I went there recently I only did one and it's this weird like why can't I just be happy with one soldout show still >> because you're equating it >> to this and it's the same I'm hyperfixating on one show the same way I hyperfixate on one video. >> It's tunnel vision where you're like >> as opposed to three weeks ago this one was a new record or this one was just really great or >> Yeah. Or the fact that when you were here last time it was out of a pandemic. You had a Saturday night. You had 8:00 p.m. Now you're doing a Thursday at 700 p.m. And it's whatever is going on with it. But um it's it's so hard. But I was just talking about this yesterday for like an hour of like >> it's so hard to not equate the most recent thing you've done for work in any field >> as your whole worth, not just entertainment in any field. >> So true. >> It's like if this video flops, I feel like a failure. Not counting >> that. This year I've had videos that have done 30 million, 40 million views. I've done three movies. I've done shows. I've opened for massive arena acts. And it's like but when something is not working that's all you are focusing on. >> I'm a piece of [ __ ] >> right now. Right now this right now I'm a piece of [ __ ] >> And it's also like I but it's like all I hyperfocus on. It's the same thing with like a like if a hate comment you get a 100red positive comments you get one bad comment you only start at that one comment. But also if a video is flopping like in my barometer I also think videos used to pop off way quicker back in the day like early Tik Tok 2019 what an era bless that era. You could post a video and an hour later I might have a million views. Like it was like it would pop but now it's like ah this flopped but and now I'm in my head I'm down bad. But a week later I look at I go oh that actually crept up to like 700,000 views. Pretty good. Yeah. It like >> over time it grew. So now I'm like looking at a seed in the ground. I'm like, "Why aren't you a tree yet?" And I'm getting mad at myself because I'm not giving it time to find its audience, time to grow. >> That's the great that that is the great thing about doing live that the feedback is immediate. If what you've done is good, you know, within 0.5 seconds if it's good. >> Standup comedy is the best form of entertainment and it's hands down for that reason. We if standup you got a response the same way the algorithm did. It would be like one person would laugh and then 30 people would laugh and then two and then a hundred and then a week later someone's like taha. Like it's [laughter] so delayed that it it almost takes the excitement out of it. That's why standup is so great because trying a new bit you immediately know like that's good, that's bad. Yeah. >> And then you you get a pop on it, you go boom, add it to the repertoire. And then you do it on a second show and it doesn't get as good of a laugh and you go was this like a first, >> you know, was this a first bit kind of luck type thing? And then but then you you obsess and you're fascinated. You keep trying and tweaking. You go, it worked on this show, so I know it is funny for a fact. Where do I find the funny? And then that's when I >> start doing like editing in my head. I go, well, you know, this three-minute bit really is just a big payoff at the end. Do I need this two minutes in the front or do I take this one minute and then actually tack it on to the fact of this old joke? So now you're like, that's where I love that where you start mixing to matching and nobody has any idea. And you're doing this in live time. That's the best of me. >> Well, that's the obsession again, right? Yeah. Like that's what that's what that is. And [gasps] I do think there's a weird sort of beauty at the beginning of everybody's journey where the the fact that there's no pressure on you means that you can just so easy. The bar is pretty low. Nothing's popped off yet. No, I don't have any obligations. I don't have meetings with [ __ ] Tuby and Spotify and like all of this, you know? We love you Tuby. Um, but there's just no, you don't do much of the stuff that isn't the thing like because there's none of the ancillary [ __ ] There's no hiring and firing and team and management and [ __ ] invoices and like, oh god, the show in Milwaukee has been moved because of such and such a thing. So, the whole rooting has got to change. It's like, no, I just go and do my little spots. I like just do the thing. I do the offer. I'm just writing on Substack. Oh, well, now you've got a book deal. >> Oh, well, now you're going to have to like deal with the publisher and you've got timelines and you've got a a research assistant. You've got to manage the research assistant. The research assistant's going to go away for two weeks. So, you're going to get somebody else in, but they're not as good and they're not going to be and you're like, I came here to do this thing >> and now I'm doing all of this stuff that isn't the thing. >> I have so many more days. Sorry to catch you. What were you saying? >> No, no, that's it. >> I have so many more days where I feel like I left my day job so I could do comedy full-time like seven years ago. And it's there's so many days where I'm more administrative, more like sitting down. >> You were in your day job. Yeah. And I'm like, "Dude, I'll just be in the middle of like I'm like sitting there with my assistant." I'm like, she's like, "Okay, then you have a 2:00, you have a 3:30, and then I'm like, what? For what? All I want to do is make funny. Every meeting I take takes away from the funny." And there's so many days where I'm just doing all this admin [ __ ] and I go like, "Can I just shoot a [ __ ] TikTok?" And then I film that with a stressed out brain and then the video flops and we're down to the races. >> Yeah. So for me it's all about like finding those you can't create creativity but you can set yourself up for creativity. So it's like I I might be like okay this Saturday I want to write what are the things that make me feel good so I could have a chance of getting creativity creative. So >> a quick aside if you have been feeling a bit sluggish your testosterone levels might be the problem. They play a huge role in your energy, your focus, and your performance. But most people have no idea where theirs are or what to do if something's off. 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That's functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. >> What does a uh precreativity game plan look like to you? >> Um really rest is the biggest thing. Sleep, good sleep, uh working out in the morning and um just working out. Like when those endorphins, it's like like I'm I'm pretty like in my head most of the day, but like if I like work out and I'm like I've had a coffee and I'm and I'm by myself like I'm like walking around. I'm like singing to myself. I'm like, that's we're on the verge of something. Well, we're feeling good. >> But for me, it's like I I can't structurally write where it's like, okay, you have a you have a 2 p.m. meeting and at 3 3:30 meeting, but at but at 3 you should write. I'm like, that doesn't work for me. Where I'm like, okay, work, you know, like let time be funny. Like, you can't force funny for me. Some people set hours every day that are like every day at 11 I write for an hour and you're allowing yourself to be creative in those moments. But for me it's like I can't structurally do that. So when I'm having these days [snorts] of all these meetings instead of like I I'll be like, "Okay guys, let's go to lunch. Let's let's step out of this office. Let's kind of get Yeah. Let's reset. Let's submerge. Let's be around some people." That's when ideas start flying up for me. It's like there's ideas everywhere. It whether it's uh fashion trends somebody's wearing, how somebody is talking to the barista or something, it's it's just like but when I'm in this stressed brain, it's like >> it's almost like I have like do not disturb on for ideas where I'm like stressed. It's like like all these ideas are right in front of me. But when I'm like relaxed or like kind of out of the work brain a little bit, like more like fun kind of stuff, it's so much easier for me to make these observations to make fun of where if I'm stressed, I'm there's funny all around me, but I'm not noticing it. >> So similar to what I do and not for the funny bit, but for the Oh, that's like two ideas that I haven't realized that that come together. And I've been hearing a lot of people talk about obsession at the moment. Zack Pogrubs just started this new running club in New York, and it's all about obsession. Well, I did this bit about motivation and discipline, but I never I never wrote about it. I never published it. So, I wonder if obsessions are part of the motivation discipline. H but without You're so right. If you're in admin mode, >> Yeah. >> that stuff just it can't penetrate at all. Mike Israel did this really wonderful episode about uh rest rest ethic stuff with me. Just [ __ ] sick line. He says, "You can't white knuckle creativity." Like, you can't [ __ ] grip it like this and be like, "Hey, be creative." >> Right. Right. Right? >> Most things, you know, if it's answering emails, you can kind of like white knuckle email answering and you can white knuckle like [ __ ] admin and and responding to texts and, you know, like sort of low-level executive function stuff, organizing your schedule or whatever, making phone calls. You can't do that with creativity because it kind of just like arrives >> and you've got to be sat back. >> Yeah. And there's days where I try to force creativity doesn't hit. whether I'm like tired and and I go, "Well, I gotta just work out." Workout usually helps with creativity and then I work out and I'm sitting and I'm trying to write or I'm trying to come up with something and I'm just getting I'm drawing blanks. And sometimes that's just the nature of the game. You can't create creativity. But you can try and and you can maybe instead of saying, "Well, instead of figuring out a new TV show idea, how about I just take an old bit that I've been working on forever, see if there's anything new." It's like you don't have to come up with your biggest idea. And you can still kind of like be like, "Okay, I'm not feeling as creative. What's a old joke I've been doing? How can I punch that up a little bit?" Or, "How can I just listen to some stuff back to kind of like put you in that right zone?" But you're really right. It's you can't white knuckle through it. And that's why I think also setting alone time for yourself, me personally, is when that's why so many people have so many creative thoughts in the shower. >> Shower thoughts and toilet thoughts, dude. >> Shower, toilet, and also driving because you're just you're not staring at a screen. you're zoned out. So, finding those moments where even if I'm feeling not creative, I just go, "Let me just go to a mall. Let me just get out. Let me go get a let me not make a coffee here." >> You're going to be around people at a mall. >> Yeah. Let me go get let me go get a coffee. Let me instead of making one. And it's not for the coffee. It's for the fact of like what's out there. >> Change of environment. >> Creativity is like fishing. You're like, "What what's out there? If if I go to a farmers market, am I going to get any am I going to catch anything?" And then you you might think you have something. and you're like, "Oh, dude, look look look what what's this guy over here? He's got like a weird like quilt on his head. What's this?" You know, and you're like you're trying to you're you're getting like sparks of creativity and you're and you're looking around and oh, is this is everyone wearing Birkenstocks? Oh, is that a video idea? And you're and but you're just you're piecing it together. You can't just sit at home and be like, "What's funny? What's funny?" I mean, you can you obviously can, but for me, I got to I got to feel connected. I got to feel something. People will pitch me ideas all the time and I go like, I see why that's funny, but like I don't have an emotional connection to it. >> But then, you know, I get cut off by a cyber truck and do you do you have one? >> No. [sighs and gasps] >> No, of course not. >> Chris, you have the build of a guy who' have a Cyber Truck. >> What is that? Give me the Give me the archetype of the Cybertruck owner. >> You >> Why? What's that? What is this? British >> Austin, Texas. Well, the British thing I think is a front. >> How long is a fake accent? You you you moved here from Dayton, Ohio. Where how long in in what's your best American accent? >> Uh there isn't one. Sorry. You you can't get an American accent out of me. Can do lots of British accents, but >> you can do a British accent because it's an accent to you. That's true. Boom. USA. >> My Instagram bio is fake British accent. >> Perfect. Yeah. >> Uh the average Cyber Truck owner is a guy with a Patagonia vest. He's like a tech guy who got kind of like not the respect he wanted. >> Okay. And a truck to him is too expensive to fill up the gas. And he goes like, I want to be the badass at work, but like I also want to be the tech guy. They want to >> Okay. So it's like the it's like the midlife crisis sports car dude, but for the like iPhone 17 generation. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. So there's a lot of compensation. So you're saying I'm compensating? >> Correct. >> Okay. No, I'm not saying you're compensating at all, but you said you're you live in Austin, Texas. Sorry to dox you. What's your home address? >> But Austin, Texas is the hub of this. There's a lot of cyber, so I could feel >> What do you drive? >> Uh Camaro. 6.2 L V8 Camaro. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Compensating still just in a different direction. Different [ __ ] >> beautiful car. Beautiful car. Um I I don't think you drive a Cybertruck, but if you did, I would say ah >> but I >> You got cut off by a cyber truck. It's like I have to feel an emotional connection to the creativity and I need a why. I get caught up by a cyber piss me off. Why? And then I catch up and I see the guy and I go, "Well, that's why. It's this guy who got this car and now he thinks he's some status guy. He thinks he's like elite. He thinks he's like futuristic." And it's like then I Everything I make fun of isn't even about like >> Is that the genesis of the Cybertruck bit? Did you get cut off by a Cybertruck? >> You did a video about Cybertruck. Well, you know what it was is I was um I I was I uh was in a he had a cyber truck, right? And I was in it and just like how he was like describing it and he's like, "Yeah, yeah, it's got air condition." I'm like, "Yeah, of course it has air conditioning. Yeah, it's got a reverse camera. Every car got Kia Sto has reverse." And how he was talking about it is like it's just so futuristic and I just was like, "You're a different person after getting this car." Well, yeah, but like he just was a different person. Like I think he had a three series before that and then he gets this car and he's like this now he's like a tech guy and now he's like telling me about like the Dow Jones. I'm like what what do you know about any of this? So it's just like that persona and then I I kind of start seeing them everywhere and then I go dude there's a kind of a theme every time you see a cybert truck it's kind of in and around the same guy. Yeah. So that's when I get excited and that's when the mental editing comes up and I go, "Okay, Cybertruck's very popular. This has great SEO online. People know about Cybertrucks. I can make fun of this. What's the type of guy I love making fun of a a thing or an like an object or like a car?" Because now it the sharability is crazy because then everyone goes, "Oh, this is just like John. >> John, you have a cyber truck. Mark, you have a cybert truck." And it's like, what's going to make people either share it because it's funny or share because it's relatable to somebody they know? So for me, that's where my brain I like that when I like am onto something go like cuz sometimes I'm spitballing I go ah what about this car? No, what about this car? No. >> And then I then like the cyber truck comes around and I can picture the like character I'd play with the video and I go yes. And it's like it's like I just it just flows when when a good idea connects. You might have one box unchecked, but for the most part, you're like, and he's gonna dress like this, and we can shoot it here, and we can And it like it just it has >> You're not forcing it. >> Yeah. It has this like synchronicity to it. Is that the right word? >> Synchronicity. >> Synchronicity. Sorry, I need to finish this drink. But it it like it you feel it come together. And there's jokes that I have that come to me so easy that I go like, "This has to be somebody else's joke cuz this can be so easy." [laughter] But it's a but it's an experience that happened to me. So, I know it's not somebody else's, but it comes to you so easy. You're like, >> "This is this like this is just a blessing from the creative gods." >> Yeah. I mean, again, I have the most uh [ __ ] Playmobil my first live show sort of equivalent of this. M but uh I know that in order to make the live show that I'm doing at the moment, the self-discovery show energized, there needs to be funny bits, not just at the start, which was to kind of like release tension everyone. >> Um because when I went in in the first version of the show that I did two years ago, there was no laugh. Well, I I it was kind of like straight off the bat straight into ideas and people were 10 minutes in and there was tension in the room because they were like, "Am I supposed to laugh? Do I clap? Like do I like what? Yeah. What do I do here? Like what am I supposed to do? So I'm like, "Okay, if we just [ __ ] work the tension out in the room." Anyway, >> there's a bit I'm using Lizo as an example >> for um people whose uh opinions and deeds are far apart. Uh like online people can say that they're real charitable, caring, philanthropic, you know, empathetic whilst not actually having to do it because you're able to say a thing whilst doing something else. The distance between opinions and deeds has never been greater. like Lizo and this was when I was in Australia. I was just talking about the fact that she was um you know helping these bigger girls uh by pushing their careers and giving them a platform. And as I said that, I was likeruct presumably a structurally reinforced platform. And that's like one of the biggest out of nowhere bits of the night >> because people don't see it coming cuz I didn't see it coming. >> And I'm like, I just say the thing that I said >> because it came to my mind while I was >> in [ __ ] Melbourne or or [ __ ] Brisbane or whenever I was a year ago. >> And that's still a part of the set now moving forward. So I'm like, ah [ __ ] Like that's really cool. So, the fact that you feel like, "Oh, this was just given to me." Like, where the [ __ ] did that come from? >> Dude, when I riff, I don't even like that's the funniest [ __ ] comes to me riffing on stage and I have no idea where it came from or in filming videos. Um, uh, this guy Chley, who I've made so many videos with throughout the years, done a lot of sketch. It's like there's just certain people that bring the riff out of you and there's certain crowds that bring the riff out of you. And when him and I would film videos together, it's like we would go in there with like a a premise of like, okay, we should make a video where, you know, here's the end goal and how we get there is different. It's very like kind of like Reno 911 and like Seinfeld, a lot of those shows or like um how Larry David likes to shoot. It's like just get to the end goal of you're mad at her because she did this and then you just when you're around the right crowds or the right people, they just bring and you don't even know where they're coming from. People be like, "How did you think of that?" I'm like, I don't know. >> When I watch you and you especially, uh, Jimmy Carr as well >> and, uh, Matt Refe, when I watch you guys riff on stage, it is like, how the living [ __ ] does that come spontaneously? Who's that? Who's that really famous freestyle rap guy? Harry Mack. >> Harry Mack. I know him. >> It's like watching Harry Mack. >> Yeah. This is the most highwire act because if you don't say something funny after you've just popped some guy in the front row and you're like oh what's going on man? Oh okay and the oh okay that's the like start the pistols got fired of like I [ __ ] with you now. And if you don't do it he [snorts] kind of wins right >> and you kind of look like a fool or a bully or someone that's not cool and you're like oh [ __ ] now I've got to win the crowd back. >> Yeah. >> So the doing that under pressure under tension um is just super [ __ ] impressive. It's really really really impressive. Like we did the first show, I told you first show in um >> in New York, we had some problems getting people in. They were doing like extra bag checks at the start. So, >> do you have one of those crowds? >> No. >> They bring a lot of guns. >> No, it's just I don't know. Something was going on and [ __ ] Alex is running around trying to fix [ __ ] And um my warm-up that I brought with me plays music for 30 minutes. [ __ ] unbelievable. Like country blues stuff. He's dialed this set in like perfectly. and he knows it from start to finish without looking at a clock for like 29 minutes 30 seconds like done and he's off and then I'm up and he just gets like a little message from on his stage wedge going hey man we just need you to extend by 15 minutes he's like it's the first show of tour it's the it's the biggest show that we're doing it's a town hall on a Thursday in the middle of Manhattan it's sold out everyone's looking at me he's like yeah we need you to extend by 15 minutes like >> and he just did like just pulled out like [ __ ] unreal songs out of nowhere that he hadn't practiced, he hadn't prepped, like not knowing the tuning of his guitar, not knowing this. I was It was so cool. >> Well, I love being put on the spot. I think that's why Crowd work sometimes I'll like and listen, there's so and the parts that I don't say to them back are funny, those get edited out. Yeah, I post a minute 30 clip. It was a threeminute interaction, whatever it is. But those parts that I like when you're being put on pressure, that's when like your body is in like fight or flight and it takes all of its creative juices and all of its years of training comedically to be like just what you know and you're not thinking about anything else. You're not thinking about a doctor's appointment you got to go to. You're not thinking about the what flight. You're just you're so present. And when you're present, that's when you're just I I just love that feeling when when everything creatively just leads to that moment because you're just responding, but you're just present >> without thinking really. >> Well, yeah. I mean, it's like I remember I did improv classes when I first moved to LA. Hey, now. And they like anytime I would like think of a joke to say, it would always bomb because it like like I would just respond with Yeah, those are always the funniest. But like if you had like a joke loaded up, time goes by and maybe the joke was funny 10 seconds ago, but you but they didn't stop talking yet or or you you said something funny and I go, "Oh, I got something to say, but you keep talking." >> It's like the funnier thing you respond what they finish with, not what they interjected with what what like middle through. >> So I think to the effect of crowd work, it's like you're just you're you're present. I'm I mean like it it's also like I'm I've been doing I'm on say I'm on stage for like 30 minutes. I'm like I'm fired up. I'm I'm warmed up. I'm I'm fully in. I'm, you know, I'm dialed in. If crowd work happens right in the beginning of the show, it takes me a second to be like, wait, what? Hold on. Because there's no like there's no stakes established yet in the show yet. Sometimes there is, but like sometimes I'm like it's like sometimes I'm like, "Let me just let me get comfortable in this room first." Somebody might yell something crazy in the beginning. I'll be like, "What did you say?" Okay. Kind of dab with it. Start cooking with the crowd going off my like guided material. And then 20 minutes later, I'll be like, "Hold on. You said you had a bow constrictor as your first [ __ ] and then I'll bring it back, you know, because I'm like, let me warm up real quick. You can't just start yelling this [ __ ] It's like because I want to feel. It's like working out. I don't want to just go and hit my PR right off the bat. It's like, let me kind of like let me do some some lunges real quick. >> A good term for that is called cold barring. >> So, you go into the gym and the bar is still cold and you try and cold bar your one rep max. It's like you can't cold barre crowd work. Like, you need to actually get into it a little bit. But I think to go back to what you said at the very beginning, which is we love people that love something, like somebody that's got a passion. And I think part of the reason is that person probably gets into a flow state at some point. They're writing music and they're just like obsessing. And maybe they're not even right. Maybe they're just editing the song and they're trying to find like what's the perfect [ __ ] kick drum. Like I need to like I need to lose a little bit of this low end here. or it's someone that's drawing and time just stops >> and they're just it's them and whatever it is that they're trying to create or someone's writing a comedy bit or they're doing this on stage or you know playing [ __ ] pickle ball whatever it is like this is why hobbies are cool and compelling and the fact that increasingly people don't have pursuits that make them feel like that I think is like a real you can laid at the feet of [ __ ] jobs and and cost of living and and the [ __ ] dopamine and the world's news and all the rest of it. That's true. But if you don't have at least like one thing, and I guess that could even be probably like playing with your kids, being like, "Fuck, like I'm just so like in the zone with my kids. I'm having such a good time and time's completely stopped here." If you don't have anything, I think it's going to be really tough to feel like I live a meaningful life if you're kind of just moving from neurotic obsessive echo [ __ ] self-reinforcing thought loop thing to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing to the next thing. It's like at what point are you just there and you're kind of out of your own head and just doing the thing? So, what do you tell people that feel like they're working a dead-end job and they're like, "I don't know if I have any hobbies and I just I I don't have any time to work life balance." >> It's rough, man. I mean, there's material constraints. >> Mhm. >> To what people can do and and this is always the issue of trying to talk about this sort of stuff online that the well easy for you to that is this sort of immediate response. And in some ways, like rightly so, because if you are a person who doesn't have the opportunity to, you got to work two jobs and raise a kid and [ __ ] do the rest of trying to get some sort of a a qualification, like that sucks. >> But your goal presumably is not to do that forever. >> Your goal is to be able to do that to reach escape velocity so that you can have this opportunity. Mhm. And >> this is why I think people that criticize or people that have an issue with anyone talking about how to manage money or or um you know move up the property ladder or whatever it might be, they're like, "Well, this is like completely out of touch." And he goes, "Well, it's only out of touch with the stage that you're at now >> because presumably your goal from the stage you're at now is to get to the stage where this sort of conversation is of use to you." So, I'm kind of skeptical. It it makes me sad when I see cynicism or or criticism on the internet of people talking about how to go from 50 to 60 as opposed to always just going from n to one or naugh to 10. Like not everybody's at the beginning of their journey. And if you want to learn about okay, what do you do when you actually get a little bit of momentum under your wings? Like there's a very different problem being at the start of your journey and being like it's all upside. I can't fail. As opposed to going, hm, what's it going to be like the first time that you eat [ __ ] or get a demotion or you don't hit your target in your sales job or you release a blog post that eats [ __ ] compared with the last one, whatever it might be. Oh, well, actually, that is a really challenging uh um hurdle to try and overcome. It just feels a little bit less sort of like underdog philanthropy like we're raising up the [ __ ] like the people that are struggling because as you get further and further up any sort of a journey there's fewer and fewer people like it, right? Because by definition people that get to 50 or 70 or 90 are in the smaller percentage than the people that are the very beginning. It's like to me that would be pretty interesting too because it's saying, "Hey, I know that you might be at this stage, but watch out cuz this thing's coming, right? You haven't had a video take off or you haven't had a blog post take off or you you haven't managed to change careers to the one that you want to." But when you do, you're going to encounter this thing and this thing is going to be hard in a really different way. You're going to feel like, "Oh, what if I dropped off? What if my self-worth has changed now? What if I can't be as creative as I used to be in the past?" those things are they're useful to see. But the the only solution that I think that makes any sense is like even even if you only had 20 minutes or 30 minutes today, what is something that if you knew it was on your calendar for the day, it would make getting out of bed way easier. >> It would excite you. Yeah. >> You're like, "Fuck, like I can't wait." So, for instance, today I had a good night's sleep last night, even though I've been flying a lot. again as you know like tour is not exactly great on the like sleep pattern stuff. >> Yeah. >> Um and I woke up this morning and I was like [ __ ] Trevor and Huberman >> back to back and all my friends >> two alpha males. >> Two Yeah. Two Sigas. Uh >> this is [ __ ] sick. Like this is a good day. I'm like okay >> I I can deal with the admin. I can deal with the emails. I can deal with the [ __ ] Episode on Tucker Carlson just went out like as we're doing this episode. I assume that I'm cancelled by like by now. Um, but I'm just like this I'm fired up to do this thing. >> And if you can find half an hour of your day where you're like or pickle ball as a kind of an example because people get obsessed with it. >> You're like if you [ __ ] love that and you know that Monday is going to be pickle ball day and you get up on a morning and you're working the kiosk in a a [ __ ] where was it? Costco. You're like, "Oh god, but tonight I get to go Monday Monday pickle ball like is the and maybe I see that hot girl again that I've been talking to or maybe I get to get better at my feeling, [laughter] >> dude. I had a Spanish class with this girl and her name was Bailey and I I would get so excited on Monday just in hopes that she would ask me about my weekend. Oh god, she has like three kids now. But the somebody beat me to it. Probably multiple people. She has three babies. >> Is she Spanish? >> She's Mexican. That fertility explains a lot. >> No, she was uh a white girl but um kind of went the stolen valor route. She'd kind of pencil in her eyebrows and she thought she was Latina. >> [laughter] >> But honestly, dude, I mean, she had a she had an ass. So, yeah, I you could Yeah, >> she could lop as if she needed. >> Yeah, she she could Yeah. Yeah, she she Yeah, she could pass, but she she was Oh, man. But but that that feeling of like, oh, she I'll see her Monday morning in in Spanish class. >> Maybe that's why it felt like she might be a little Latina's Spanish class. But to your point, I would get excited at my day job for lunch because everybody in the office would go out to lunch and I would say, "Oh, cool. I can now go to the break room and edit my videos freely." So, I would get excited for people to leave. I would get like find and it was a 20 to 30 minute window where I could like go, "Oh, if I edit now, then I can go to open mic later." And I start like I've always been like a a Google calendar guy in my head where I'm just it's all blocks where I go okay well if I do 20 minutes now then I have that free >> and I but like I would obsess over like when can I when can I film this week? When can I edit this week? I would sneak away and and shoot a a video upstairs in my old day job. >> And then I would be like in my lunch break I would turn my laptop against a wall so nobody else in the break room could see it and it would look like I'm working. Nobody ever in that office ever saw me work as hard as I did when I was editing because I had like a 20-minute constraint. Same to the pressure thing. It's like if I have a whole week to get a video done, I'm gonna dillydally around the whole week and I'll probably finish it Sunday night uh at midnight with when if there's like a deadline. I was the same way with papers in college. I didn't give a [ __ ] until there was a deadline. So, also giving yourself a deadline for goals of saying like, "Okay, yeah, you work from uh 5:00 p.m. to midnight." And you go, "Okay, well, I have up until 4 p.m. to get this done because I got to do a closing shift tonight." like that that deadline mentality that really I gave myself a small goal of one video a week and I like would obsess over that and I and I I just I loved it. I would find time to to >> think it's what I said before. Look at how much reverence and enjoyment you have for what should be the shittest period of your career where you're like nobody knew who I was. I had a couple of videos that had blown up. I didn't have the following. I wasn't flying around the country playing all of these shows. I wasn't certainly wasn't selling out the [ __ ] Beacon Theater in New York. Uh this is and it's it's kind of hard to say. It's a bit of an unteachable lesson that the golden years were often the first ones, >> but you're going to look back on the start of this relationship. you know, oh, do you remember before we had kids and we lived in that pokey apartment in, you know, the upper east side and we could hear the pigeons outside, but like it was so beautiful and we had Saturday mornings to ourselves and we go to the dog park and blah blah blah or you remember when we first founded the business and we didn't have any idea what we were doing and we had that pitch meeting and we crushed it, but we slept under the desk the night before and we ordered Domino. Like, those are the golden years. >> Yeah. There's a good chance a lot of people listening to this right now are in their golden years, but they're so stressed about the future they don't realize it. >> Yes. Yes. So true. Morgan Hel has this [ __ ] unreal article. He says, um, golden years only exist in the past. Like, nobody ever believes they're growing. They're living through a golden era. >> Yeah, there's a good chance I'm in my golden years right now, but I'm like, well, why can't I say, well, well, Seattle sold out, but why isn't Portland, you know, like there's so many there's so many things that can take you away from it, and it's almost good that it takes you away from it. I'm not a big Reflect guy. like, "Sure, I'll do the Beacon on Saturday." And I'll be like, "Yeah, cool. But this YouTube short bomb." Yeah. Or it's like, "Okay, cool. But what's the next show?" So, like, Satie, how's that selling? I don't >> I don't My mom asked me if I ever am enjoying anything that I'm doing cuz >> I' I've done a lot of really cool [ __ ] And she goes, "Do you enjoy this?" And I go, "I enjoy it." Months later, I go like, I shot my special in Austin. I and I did three shows with Paramount and I was like, >> "Unreal, >> unreal. So happy with it." And then like there's a photo in my kitchen of the last night in the Paramount and like I walk past it every day and then like a couple months later I looked at I was like, "Holy [ __ ] man. I can't believe I did that." But it for me I can't in the moment feel it. I I'm I walk into I'll walk into the beacon on Saturday. I'll look out. I say, "Ah, this is [ __ ] beautiful. Now it's time to worry about my set." You know, it won't be until months later that I'm just sitting there like, >> dude, the beacon. >> I [ __ ] did that. >> Yeah, it but I and I don't know what that is because I'm just always worried about the future. So, being in these golden years thing, it's like, dude, I mean, listen, I'll probably be 62 performing at a looney bin in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Be like working for chicken tenders and a shot of Jack Daniels like I did the beacon back in the day. you I'll be thinking about how good it currently is right now, but I don't realize it right now. I am doing it right now and I'm I feel like I'm not. I feel like I'm still like, does anybody care? Should I go to an open mic? Should I delete my account? Now, this is being dramatic, but I feel like I'm in the golden years, but I don't feel like I'm in the golden years until 5 years down the road, I'll be like, "Dude, that was incredible. I was I I was doing everything I wanted. I was I I I have employees. I have a house. I'm doing everything that I need. I'm but I'm not like appreciated because I'm always just head down. What's next? What's next? What's next? In other news, if you're feeling tired, you might not need more sleep. You might not need more caffeine. You might just be dehydrated. And proper hydration is not just about drinking enough water. It's about having sufficient electrolytes to allow your body to properly absorb those fluids. 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The common feeling that your life has not begun, that your present reality is a mere prelude to some idilic future. This idol is a mirage that'll fade as you approach, revealing that the prelude you rushed through was in fact the one to your death. And I think this is so [ __ ] common. I think that people have this nexting like they're sort of peering over the shoulder of the present moment to see what's coming. You know when I feel this the most is when I go to the mother ship. And this is not an insult to any of the comedians at the Mothership. But there's always this sense of like, oh yeah, I know that like such and such is on now, but who's up next? But who's up next? But who's up next? >> And before I know it, I've but did my way through the whole [ __ ] show. And I'm like, oh, >> I'm done. We're outside again. like and I've just like peered over the [ __ ] shoulder of the present moment waiting for that. >> I also think that's what has made dating so hard because you're like yeah I'm dating this person right now but with social media and and you see your whole in I mean my Instagram I don't know about yours. It's just like there's hot women everywhere and there's just temptations everywhere. You're like yeah this girl's awesome. I love this woman but you're also like but and then you're like what are these voices coming in? Yeah. >> What? So I feel that and and also people even before they start dating somebody where they're swiping and they match with somebody like nah it's cool what else is out there what else is out there >> I don't know options are difficult man you know there's uh this cool idea called the paradox of choice by Barry Schwarz did this TED talk I remember when I first I remember where I was when I was listening to this like over 10 years ago driving through Newcastle it basically says um >> the beer >> Barry Schwarz parad yeah that's where I'm from >> the beer >> yeah Newcastle Brown Ale. >> Sorry. >> Have you drank it? >> Yeah. >> It's good. Sorry, I was getting It's >> not at all. Have you ever played >> Newcastle? >> Newcastle. Have you done any anything in the UK? >> No, I haven't. I want to, >> bro. >> I need to. >> They'd like you. >> I would. No, I I know. I would do. I would. I really >> lining that up. You must be lining up Europe. >> We're working on we're we're working on London. I I've done Australia, which is where I thought everybody was here from this morning, but no. Sorry. I didn't mean >> a bad intro to everyone. It's like you're Australian and you're Australian and you're New Zealand. Well, everybody in LA has a cool accent and I'm like, "Nobody from LA is from LA." Like, everybody you meet here in every bigger production you go to in LA for a shoot or something, there's always like one token Australian and you're like, "God, I need an Australian around me." >> Um, you remember where you're uh >> where I was where I was listening to this? 50 years ago, if you went into the jeans store to try and buy a pair of jeans, there would be one type of jean and there maybe be in different waist sizes, but you walk out and maybe they're not perfect for you, but you don't feel much regret about your purchase cuz there were no other options. >> Fast forward 50 years to now, and do you want boot cut or skinny, ripped, stretched, bleached? Do you want them to be cropped? Do you want them to be low-rise, high-rise? Do you want them to be looser bag? >> If you don't choose the precise, perfect pair of jeans, it's your fault. Previously, it was because reality constrained your options. Now, it's because your ability to choose appropriately was wrong. So, you get much more buyers remorse when there's loads of options than when there's none. And this like analysis paralysis thing is why you don't make anything and you're always dissatisfied. It's the same thing with partners. >> Absolutely. Well, it's the same thing with like there's so much fast fashion, there's so much fast trends. It's like I I I'm always fascinated at how how I edit is how based on people scroll. Like I study how people scroll at airports, at restaurants. People scroll, no headphones on, and they're like boom, boom, boom. So for me, I go, "How can I catch their attention when it's usually a video where I'm talking?" So it's like, I need subtitles. I need to catch their attention because they're going boom, boom, scroll, scroll. What am I gonna do in that 0.5 seconds that's gonna catch their attention? Because that's just the world we're living in. Everything is just like next next next. How can I in a next next next world be like and stop and there's so many options. And there it's it's it's to your point. It's like that's why I haven't made a TV show. I go I have this idea and they go well I'll set you up with this and then we'll do this and then and then I'm like there's too many options. If I want to make a sketch right now, I call one guy. He shoots it. He edits it, it's out. >> Y >> So that's the that's the the gene. >> The stakes are low as well. The stakes are a little bit low. It's like if I try and do this TV show and it flops, >> well, that is my shot as opposed to knowing well I do the video this week and it doesn't work and then I do another one next week and maybe it redeems me. Like ah when the stakes are a little bit lower it's easier. But that's again that's the same advantage that you have at the start of your journey. No one's scrutinizing you. No one's like Trevor Wallace fall off when no one know who he was. Yeah. Yeah. >> I think about uh that habituation thing, sort of the balance between, wow, this thing's really big and impressive and I want to enjoy it at the time. But the more that I enjoy it, at least in in my experience, the more it causes me to get a little bit more sort of nervy and in my own head about what's going on. And that's not very good for performance. >> So, correct. trying to play cool >> whilst also trying to appreciate what's going on, whilst also not looking over the shoulder of the present moment, whilst also not >> doing it so much that you're like, "Oh my god, it's such a big deal. It's the beacon. I'm going to [ __ ] up." >> Well, yeah. I I when I did the the Chicago Theater, that was probably >> one of the the the biggest venues I've ever done. And I remember there was a moment where I walk out on stage and it's a long walk from the side stage to the center stage. It's this loud ass cheer and I'm like dude I gotta get to the mic and tell a joke before I start overanalyzing like holy [ __ ] [laughter] this is because for me the second I tell a joke I'm like locked in. I always to this day and I this was just a something I learned from open mics and just myself is like I feel like I always have to get a joke out as quick as possible so the audience can be like oh we trust this guy whether his next five jokes are [ __ ] at one he got our trust right off the bat so I come out with something >> good first impression so to speak >> first impression right the second you walk on stage based on what you're wearing how you look every they're judging everything so if your first joke is funny they go okay we like this guy that's something I learned from just starting out doing open mics and doing random showcase cases inside of a Marie Calendars, which is a pie shop here in America. So, I would always try to find a joke as fast as possible. Um, and I still do that to this day. Granted, a lot of these people follow me online and love me, but I'm still like, you guys invested your time, money, this I you're getting funny out the gate. I'm not here to lolly gag, but when I >> I'm walking out there and I see how big this is. I see people cheering, I go, dude, I got to get to that mic so I can lock in. Because if I'm out here any longer, well, the same thing for the special. I'm just standing there like taking it all in. I'm like, "Nope. I'm thinking. I'm thinking. I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking. I'm not doing my set." And I'm like I'm like, "Oh, there's people. Holy [ __ ] There's people up there." Like people like, "How are my jokes going to exceed their expectations? They're standing up and they're so excited." I'm like, "These aren't thoughts I have on the regular." So, I'm like, once [snorts] I just get in and do what I feel like I was meant to do, that's when the show is great. But every once in a while, I'll take a moment in a big crowd be like, "Dude, this is a lot of people." I won't say that but mentally there's a lot of people like shut up get back to the set because I'm not I'm not thinking about the fight I'm like off somewhere. Isn't that strange though the whole reason that you do this well you do it for you do it to feel proud of your performance and you do it to make people laugh and you do it to make money like largely you're doing it for the experience of having done it like the reason that we do things that we enjoy is to experience doing things that we enjoy. And if the only way that you can perform is to almost [ __ ] disembodi yourself >> Yeah. uh you end it's this weird it doesn't surprise me that you go I enjoy the things that I do I just enjoy them three months later um and I saw this I was yesterday on the plane watching a cut of the vlog from New York and Toronto which was last weekend and I'm like holy [ __ ] >> yeah yeah >> that thing happened and that thing happened I'm like hang on where was I when that thing was happening to me like where was where was I in my mind >> you're there but you're not there mentally Absolutely. You're somewhere else. Yeah, that was a good point. When I did my first tour, uh the videographer was I was like, "Ah, this vlog didn't do a very good numbers." He's like, "That's not what this is for." He's like, "This vlog is so you can watch it back years later and be like, dude, how cool is that that I got to tour the US with my best friend at the time. >> We're still best friend, but we toured together and was like, >> how sick is that that you got to do this?" And like to your point, I'm there. I'm not thinking about the vlog and how cool this is going. I'm thinking about the show. I'm thinking about what's next and what I got going on. But then when you watch it back, I almost get this like third person. I watch it back. I'm like, dude, this guy's life is so cool. But I'm like, I'm the guy in >> that was me. >> But I don't feel like >> it's almost Yeah, it's >> I really think there's something deep here, dude. Like I I really really do. Um that Morgan article I was talking about where he says, "Nobody ever believes that they're living through golden years." He's just this great example of him and his wife uh living in New York and he's they've got kids now and he's got the psychology of money which has sold a gazillion copies. It's been on the New York Times bestseller chart for like four years straight or something. He was talking to his wife and he was saying, "Do you remember when we used to live in New York and we didn't have any kids and we'd lie in on a Saturday morning and we get to go and have coffee and we could have this wonderful time. Do you remember how amazing it was? Do you remember how free we were?" And his wife turns to him and goes, "What are you talking about? you were miserable. Like you had no idea whether you were going to hold your job down. You were scared about the future. We thought we were going to get kicked out of the house. And what he realizes is in retrospect, he could see that his fears were a waste of time. >> I like that. >> And that the successes that he was hoping would come to pass would come to pass. But at the time, all of his fears were really real. like I'm gonna miss the first joke or people are gonna laugh at me or stuff's not going to go well and none of his success and none of your successes are promised. >> So you end up with this weird world where in retrospect >> you know that you had nothing to worry about. So you can almost enjoy stuff more. >> And I guess this is kind of a curse of somebody that is an obsessive with high standards that's trying to achieve because the reason that you are getting the outcomes you want is because of your obsession, your attention to detail, your vigilance of oh that might that could be a little bit better if only I refined it this tiny little bit more. >> Okay. Well, do you want to do that and also at the same time be like I'm just present man. I'm free flowing. I'm like here. Those two things don't compulate very well. >> No. And they feel like they would hate each other. A guy who's compulsive and obsessive over an edit sees a guy at a coffee shop who's like, "It'll all work out, man. If people buy Yeah. Those two guys would never hang out. They would meet each other at a party and be like, "That guy's an idiot. That guy's an idiot." So it it almost feels weird to let myself know like, "Hey, I've been doing this independently for seven years, yet every day I go, how am I going to make this happen?" And I go, "Well, I have a track record of seven years, but but I'm I'm like, yeah, but but how am I going to in a week and a month and a year, but like so to his point, if I put myself five years behind when I'm only two years in, I go, "Ah, dude, how am I going to make this work another five years, you just you kind of just do, >> but you're you're you're you're subconsciously trusting yourself while stressing yourself because you're stressing [laughter] yourself to the next level. You're like, I got to get I got to get I got to get true. But but it's not like >> there's no like bumpers like in bowling where it's like course correcting. You're like I'm just I got to I got to and you're just you're like stressing yourself forward in this weird way where you're like I trust myself because I'm not looking up job applications. I'm not I'm not putting the fries in the bag. I'm not doing that. I'm trusting myself. I know myself. I know what I'm doing is successful and funny. Yet there's still doubt. What is why? I've I've done everything online that I've ever I dreamed of times a thousand. You know, I remember I have a photo of a goal list from 2017 that I like to look at every once in a while. It was when I still have my day job, but I I just quit. I think I just quit my day job in that year. And one of my goals on there was like get a million views on a video. >> And now I was talking to my girlfriend last night about something that stresses me. I'm like, if a video on Instagram doesn't do a million views, I'm like sad. I'm like depressed about it. But I'm like, that once was my goal for the entire year. One video hit a million views. And I wanted like a million views on like Facebook. I don't even This is pre Tik Tok. This is like pre Instagram. So, it's interesting to see I lost my train of thought. >> Interesting. Interesting to see that. I'm looking here. I've got like a yearly goals library. Yeah, >> that's what you've prompted me to go and look at here. Uh I think me and Dean put some together certainly in 2018 which was hit 20,000 subscribers. >> Yeah. >> And uh the problem that you have and the problem that everybody has. So habituation, right, which is um you get a new car and then you get used to it and the first day that you get your cyber truck, it's amazing. And after that you you kind of the hideonic adaptation sets in. But the same thing happens for goals and the same thing happens for what you want to achieve. So the first time that you played a headline show, just straight up headline show, not just spots. Been like, "Holy [ __ ] 200 people and it's just me." And now you're looking over the shoulder of the [ __ ] beacon and going, "Yeah, yeah, no, but what about Chicago? What about Milwaukee? What about the whatever?" Whatever. So there's this line, "For every level there's a devil." And as you keep on getting better >> at the thing, >> the level of resolution that you look at it with becomes more refined. You know, you go from like 360p to 1080 to 4K to 8K. You're like looking, zooming in, zooming in, zooming in, zooming in, and that makes the job harder. But that's why you get better. That's why the people that are the absolute top are the best because they've continued to zoom in and zoom in and zoom in a lot. And I I don't know. I think >> I'm sorry. women on what >> the level of like resolution that they look at their craft with. >> You know, for you to deliver a joke that got this size of a laugh, 5 years time, you're like, "Yeah, but I could have just like clipped the end of that word just a tiny little bit better. My pacing could have been a little bit more. I know that my hands weren't perfect. I know that my body language wasn't perfect. I could have held eye contact on the first person just a second longer. I could have smiled a little bit more." Whatever you however you refine your art form to like really dial it in. But when you're first starting you like make words come out of mouth like publish blog post online draw illustrate laugh yeah >> say my name >> exactly so as you get better at something you get better at something and you start to try and do the thing with like a ever increasing skill set right like you're more refined with what it is that you do >> and the problem with that is that as you get as you get better your standards increase and that you're never done like there's no point at which you'll feel like you've arrived. And I think this is a question that I'm playing with myself, which is like, am I going to regret that in retrospect? Like, am I going to look back on a career where I was always looking over the shoulder of the present moment for the next thing I was going to do? Or is that the game in order to be able to come a high like to perform at the level that you want to? I've kind of got this I've kind of got this working theory that you you probably can let go of 5% of the neurosis to gain probably 50% of the presence and the enjoyment. And yeah, maybe it'll sacrifice a tiny little bit of performance. You'll like let a couple of things slide. You'll make a couple of errors, but it might be worth, you know, another half of [gasps] this is really [ __ ] cool and I am here and my mind is where my feet are as opposed to being like must get on stage, must say joke, must. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't know. >> Balancing those two things, enjoyment in the moment and high standards are they're a really really tough thing to One thing I'm really trying to get over and and I would love your opinion on this is like if I have a a video that I really love making and and I I'm having fun making it. I'm having fun editing it. I'm so excited and then I post, my excitement is only as high as the video does after that. At one point, I loved making that video. I loved writing it. I loved shooting it. I loved editing it. and then I post and if it does bad, I go, "Wow, that excitement's now gone." What is that? Is that just the same as like if I tell a joke that I really thought was funny and the crowd doesn't laugh? >> Mhm. >> But it's different for me because if if a crowd doesn't laugh at a joke, I go, "Okay, cool. I have a thousand other I can now go to." >> Or I know or now, okay, that's not funny, but I have another attempt at it in this next set. >> Mhm. But when it comes to a video, it's like all this happiness I once had for it. If it does great and it's like, let's say that Cybertruck video for example, I had the idea. I got super excited for it. I move straight on my schedule. I go, "We have to shoot this. I'm obsessed about it. We shoot it. It does great." I go, "Fuck yeah, that's a perfect storm." But there's also times where I have the same energy and I post and it goes and I go, "What the fuck?" >> Yeah. >> What? Why? Why can I not still have the excitement that I once had with it because it didn't do what I thought it was capable of? >> Yeah. I think in a perfect world, it would be lovely to say, I can just do it for the art form, man. I know what is artistically honest and I know what's funny better than the audience knows what's funny. I don't think you do. I think if you're trying to do something that makes other people laugh and that doesn't happen. This is one of the problems with doing the video thing online. I think at least part of it is the why question. >> It's like was it because of the edit? Was it because of the script? Was it because of the acting? Was it because of the joke? Was it the premise? Was it the timing? Maybe it's because the Blue Jays lost. Was it like, you know, what was the contributing factor? And you're going to drive yourself crazy as opposed to really on stage. the reasons that something doesn't work are pretty constrained. It's like wasn't funny enough, timing wasn't right, body language wasn't right. Yeah. So, you only have a few number of variables. So, I think there's going to be less reflection on that. But another part of it like generally is just humans are social animals and >> you don't want to do something that other people don't respect or feel is good. Like this is why talking of Tucker Carlson, uh I thought it was kind of a meme that he doesn't check, he doesn't read the internet. Like he literally doesn't have access to his own YouTube channel. He doesn't have access to his own Instagram. Doesn't read anything at all. And all he does is live on this [ __ ] 100 acre plot of land in Portland, Maine, like the middle of [ __ ] nowhere. >> And does his thing, turns up, he has the talent that he has, he does his thing, and then he [ __ ] off. And like that's the only way really without the feedback mechanism that you can't second guess yourself. >> That's also what I was thinking. And it's like I'm at this point where I still post all my videos on Instagram and Tik Tok. It's still me. Other apps it's like other people running it. But like for whatever reason I still care so much about how video looks on Instagram and Tik Tok. But I'm so in the weeds. I'm so in it that like I post it and then I'm I up I refresh 15 minutes later. And it's like >> that's not the the mind of like a successful CEO. It's, you know, it's like you kind of do like a monthly report or something. And I'm like, okay, maybe it finally is time that I get somebody who uploads for me so I can do that. So I can be like >> a bit of distance. >> Yeah. Just some distance. And if I do look at a video, I look at it a week later instead of day of and I'm like my thoughts are my feeling towards a video are like live, you know? It's like I post something this morning and I go, "Well, how's my day going to be?" you know, instead it's like >> completely determined by how this video performs, >> which is so stupid. >> It went well, I'm good. It went badly. I'm a piece of [ __ ] >> I mean, dude, it's it's um Michael Blstein, who I do a podcast with. Love the guy. We have the same brain where it's like I can tell when a video is doing well for him. He can tell when a video is doing well for me because it's like, you got a little pep in your step. What's going on? I'm like, dude, 13 million on this standup clip. And it's it's just it I hate that it is the nature of our game, but it's like to your point, we all love to feel like we did something good. The same way that if I turned a blind eye to my Instagram page and I'm not posting anymore, I would still want the social media, I'd be like, "Dude, this hit 10 million." And I'd be like, "Fuck yeah, that's awesome." >> Now, that shouldn't make my day any better or worse. It should be like, "Cool, note it down." But it's not like I should start around town and everybody gets a raise and I mean sure maybe but like it like how much social numbers affect my day is just stupid. I'm like I you know it's I know social media is getting to me when I walk outside and I go wow the birds are lovely today. I'm like dude you're losing it. They've always been there. Touch grass buddy. So >> because you hit 14 million today. >> Yeah it did pretty well. Yeah. Um, you know, was that 5.6 million on a standup clip? We'll take it. Base, good bass hit. But, um, for me, it's like I want to just be a little more disconnected in that Tucker Carlson world. But then there's that voice in my head that fights for it that it goes, "Yeah, but being online is good because now you know what the trends are and now you know what to make the videos on." >> Well, this this is the um kind of the vicious game of social media that there are diamonds in the rough. >> True. >> Right. You scroll online for long enough and you will come across something every like Yeah. There's my inspo. Do you know the idea of a signal versus noise? Are you familiar with this? >> No, I like this. >> So, >> uh, imagine that you were a trader and you were trading a particular stock and you were to check check the price of this stock every single day. There would be loads of intraday movement, right? It would be up and down or you check it every 30 minutes and then in another version you check it every day and then in another version you check it every month and then another you check it every year. across a year there is loads of noise but what you're actually getting is signal right something which is uh reliable to um the trajectory of this thing over time if you check it every half an hour it's almost all noise it doesn't contribute to you even said it yourself that sometimes video might launch slow and go pick up after 5 days or whatever and you're like huh that came into line quite nicely because you've prioritized noise over signal and the only way that you can really sort of select out noise and select for signal is to reduce how frequently you check and to like do it at bigger chunks of time. Certainly, I know for me when we started uh having somebody else post on my behalf, unless I'm like it's 10:00 a.m. Central time, I should a video has gone up 30 minutes ago. Uh I don't know that it's gone. And another thing that's been really good is and this is a from my housemate George. He always has a couple of things in the tank and he publishes something that he wrote a few weeks ago. So, you know, let's say that you start off writing but before you begin you have four um videos, articles, illustrations or whatever and then number one goes out on week number like four and then number two goes out on week number five. Like you're always moving like this. That distance I think between creation and publish gives you a little bit more like ah well it's great because you're also not creating based on last video's performance. If a video bomb now you're stressed you're like I need a hit and now you're writing under the pretense of I need a hit and I swear the internet knows when a video is forced. If a video is forced the internet's going to be like no no hey this is desperate energy. >> Yeah. This is a fun zone buddy. The videos that always do the best to me are like the ones that I like had the most fun creating. So, when you distance yourself one to four, like you just said, >> now that gives you some space to be like, "Hey, I made this when I wasn't even thinking about these other videos." So, true. I got to Yeah, I'm about like >> like two I'm like a week out every week, but maybe that's not enough time. Certainly with this if you did that if you did the little bit more inventory buffer plus somebody else posted on your behalf. Uh I think like okay we're starting to create a little bit of distance right to get away from the noise and to get into the signal. >> Yeah I I like that a lot. I I've never seen it so clear getting a signal. I've never seen it so clear. But I also don't know any CEO who is standing over the shoulder looking at their Squarespace or their Shopify every 30 minutes like what's it selling? What's it selling? What's it selling? It's like they come in the morning. How' we do? Good, bad. >> Mhm. >> Okay. They're not refreshing. >> Again, I I totally get it and I I think you're right. But I wouldn't be too hard on yourself because two things. First off, this is the training mode that got you to where you are. It's the same founder mentality like startup demon mode, DGEN [ __ ] thing that everybody who rips a project off a launchpad has. It's like, oh, I did everything. I like came up with the ideas and I worked out like what what's my handle going to be on social media and like do I use [ __ ] After Effects or do I need to use Premiier Pro or like is Cap Cut any goods? I don't know. And how do I [ __ ] I exported it in the wrong like it's 25 frames per second or 24 30 looks weird. Like you know all of these things. So now you at, you know, getting from 97 to 98 are the inheritor of the guy that got from naugh to one and then got from like 10 to 20 and 20 to 30. And you're like, okay, all of that stuff was good for then, but the tools that got you here don't always get you there. They don't always get you to the next thing. It's like um >> like let's say you've got a big journey to do and part of the journey involves you getting across a river. You're, okay, I've got this boat and I'm like [ __ ] rowing across this river and now you're on land and you realize that you're still carrying a [ __ ] boat. You're like, that was a tool >> for that >> I needed for then. >> I like that. >> I don't think I need it now. >> Um, but it's hard to let go of cuz you're like, I know this works. I >> I might need this later on or I I or you almost have like a a self-esteem or or like a pride. You're like, >> yeah, but I've always been that. I've always been, but there's certain things that I can leave behind. It doesn't mean that I don't know how to use it anymore. >> I mean, the posting, for instance, is a really good one. >> Yeah. >> Because it's such a low skill level thing. And presuming that you like trust somebody to be the poster, >> you're like, I can probably get someone else to press the button for me. >> You can probably get I remember when we first started using a company to do our uh Instagram clips and it was like we would get them to do it and send it to us for us to post and then you're like involving yourself unnecessarily in the process of doing the thing. But this is I I have this idea called the lonely chapter which is like as you move through any stages of development it's hard to resonate with an old set of friends and you're worried about whether or not you're doing the right thing and each different hurdle that you get over is part of the selection mechanism of why people don't change. It's the same as why people don't delegate responsibility. They're terrified. They're like [ __ ] >> that's the same. Yeah. >> If I don't do this thing, what if it goes wrong? What if something I don't know? I've got scarcity mindset. I'm concerned about the future. like ah >> yeah well it's I've had this trade before where I've hired somebody and then I go you know I'll just do it myself and it's like those let's call it three employees who give me that made it that much harder for me to find that person but then I uh I had a guy work for me before his name was Zach and he was like the best employee who came in and absolutely crushed it I go dude you changed my whole perspective of what adding somebody to the team can be I had previous examples where I found like ah I wish there was difference here or like maybe you were you kind of knew something better about that. But like I was skeptical about hiring certain positions. I was skeptical about hiring like a everyday producer. Then I hired this person. I was like oh this is what somebody who is good at this job looks like. It freed up so much. It was a it allowed me to uh you know double my production and and make it look that much better and and really up the value of it. But I was so scared for so long because I was like, "Yeah, but this person kind of sucked or that person kind of sucked." Or freelancing with this guy sucked. So, sure. But but it's that same default of of going to the negative versus the positive. Well, I could hire Sorry, what I say? >> No, I I uh somebody asked the the exact same question at the live show last week, which was like I work 70 What did that guy say? 70 or 80 hours a week. That dude in Toronto. So, I work 70 or 80 hours a week at this startup and like I'm terrified of relinquishing any control at all and I need to make my first hire. And uh I was like one good bit of advice is try and have that first hire be someone that goes well >> cuz if it goes badly you learn the lesson that you learned which is like >> I can't trust people. >> Yeah. >> And all that an employee is >> is a an unreliable GPT that I need to like peer over the shoulder of and triple check their work. I'm just honestly dude despite the fact that you're playing at you know such a huge level on social media I really think this is just part for the course of like anybody in a startup that's trying to build a business and like >> that's also it it's like at one point I was only myself doing this and now it's like I'm running this you know >> company that produces >> legit money and it's like this is a company. This is like when when you zoom out and you look at the signal, hey now and you look at the signal of the trajectory of the last year, you're like this is like a legit money-making company, but I'm too in the busy in the weeds doing [ __ ] that you know somebody else could do right out of college. >> Yeah. >> So to your point, if you're going to have sushi for the first time, let it be at Nou. Yeah. >> And not a Ralph's [laughter] >> grocery store. 7-Eleven. >> 7-Eleven. Yes. >> Yeah. >> I think I have that fear. It's like I have a fear that I'm going to hire somebody and maybe I hire them too quick and I go, "Ah, you don't know what you're doing with my Instagram. Ah, you're [ __ ] it up. You're making it worse." >> Nobody knows what they're doing with with my Instagram. >> Really? >> No. That's that's the lesson that you would take. You're like, you hire a person, first person doesn't go well. It's like your first relationship, they end up cheating on you. You're like, "Everybody's a cheater." >> It's like you chose a cheater. >> Uh or maybe it was you. Maybe you're the problem. But uh >> Trevor Wallace, ladies and gentlemen, dude, >> thank you so much for having I learned so much. I've been a fan for so long. I didn't even know that you followed me and then I saw that and I was like, "Dude, this has been happening." >> DMing you for years. >> No, come on. It was once. You DM' me once. >> All right. >> But, um, honored to be on here. Uh, yeah. Follow that, Huberman. [laughter] >> Uh, live shows. Where should people go? >> Trevorwalls.com. I'm touring the whole United States. I think I have like 30 shows left on this tour. Then we're filming a special in March in Phoenix, Arizona. Tickets going to be announced very soon. Um, when does this come out? >> Couple of weeks. >> All right. Well, maybe it's on sale. Trevorwalls.com. Thank you for having me, Chris. And uh make sure to drink Element and New Tonic. Is that how you say it? >> Yep. Thank you. Free ad reads. >> New Tropic. >> Yeah, sure. >> Is there in this? >> Yes. [laughter] >> Thanks for having me, Chris. Thank you very much for tuning in. Oh, Trevor Wallace in all his glory. How about Jimmy Carr in all of his British [music] glory? Right here.