As Trump Ruins the USA's International Reputation (Connecting the Dots)

Welcome to Connecting the Dots on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm your host, Jay Fidel. This episode is entitled, As Trump Ruins the USA's International Reputation. What are the dangers? Our co-host for the show, Dotto Brown. Welcome to the show, Dodto. >> Thank you for having me, Jay. And as I always say, you and I have a great deal to talk about. >> You bet. National alliances, national reputation are really important these days. Uh alliances, reputation and multilateralism are critical to national influence. In fact, we were doing pretty well after World War II, but things have changed. So, can you tell us how it was before before Trump? How are we doing? And uh how has Trump changed that? >> Well, it was realized after World War II. Okay, to to back up, in 1945, World War II ended and there had been massive wars, massive destructions, huge number of people killed in both Europe and in Asia. And while some parts of the world were pretty much untouched, there was a very strong economic effect throughout the entire world, throughout all countries. The United States came out of World War II in a position of unparalleled strength because very little damage to no damage had been done to the country's infrastructure. The United States had kicked up its manufacturing capabilities tremendously in order to produce war material and it was very rich particularly in comparison to most of the everybody else in the entire world particularly the areas that have been destroyed in the war. So during this time period, the USA assumed a role which people realized was necessary in assisting rebuilding and also putting a lot of attention towards international relationships, building alliances, building friendships and if necessary giving substantial grants which consisted of either cash andor shipments of food, shipments of material, shipments of uh vehicles whatever it was to countries throughout the world. And it was during this time the United States and Russia or the USSR as it was at that time were the two main adversaries. And the US realized okay we don't want another war. Nobody wants another war. This was a catastrophic horrible war. We don't want that. What we do have to do is try to counter the actions of the of the countries we don't like that we are opposed to through kindness and through gifts essentially. If you want to say they're bribes, okay, they're bribes, but they had an altruistic useful good. They were done for a good reason. And after World War II, Europe in particular was rebuilt through something called the Marshall Plan, which was essentially a tremendous amount of aid given to Europe so that the countries that received it would like the United States and want to be friends with the United States to counter the influence of the USSR, which had taken over a great many countries in Europe. And it was also the time that for example the Chinese government shifted to being a communist government again allied with the USSR. So the USA during this period from the late 40s onwards up until just 2025 last year was still giving grants for the exact reason that I just said. You want alliances. You want friends. You want people to be on your side. And you may not need to call upon those friendships for a long period of time, but if there is some reason to do it, you want them there. Now, I also have to say too that behind the scenes, the CIA was manipulating things, murdering people, overthrowing governments, etc. So, it was not like the United States was just a ray of sunshine everywhere doing good deeds, because it wasn't. But nonetheless, a lot of people benefited and therefore a lot of people in other countries were favorably disposed to the United States. In addition to I just want to mention too, the USA continues to be extremely popular and extremely influential in popular culture. So that a lot of people like United States music. They like United States fashions and other things like that. They still look to the United States for these types of things that are fun. And a lot of people now learn to speak English, American English, online through things that people from the United States post. So, we're still the USA is still important. But what's happened with Trump? Donald Trump, let's go to the big the basis of this whole thing. Donald Trump is a petulant, spoiled brat. Donald Trump is an immature child who has tantrums, has grudges, gets angry about something illogical, and then stamps his feet and says, "I'm going to hurt them. I'm going to do something bad to them." And Donald Trump is enabled by a whole core of Republicans as well as all the people directly around him who give in to every one of these whims. So, Donald Trump will say something that just comes into his mind and then it gets put into effect. The thing that really did damage to this effort of the United States to be a good buddy to people was that right after Trump took power in 2025, he buddied up to his friend Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, and said, "Here, Elon, go into the government and cut whatever you want." And Elon created something called Doge, Department of Government Efficiency, quote unquote. And with a group of immature tech kids who weren't even given security clearances, he just he and they just dove into the workings of the federal government of the USA and just arbitrarily destroyed, cut, damaged, ruined whatever crossed their little brains. And one of the things that they targeted was foreign aid because they said, "Well, taxpayer money shouldn't be given away to these other countries." And that's a very MAGA kind of concept. This is all for us. We don't owe them anything. They're supposed to come to us and beg if if we're going to give them something. We don't give away things. So with that attitude, tremendous amount of cuts were made and all of these connections that had been established for decades were just wiped out. Now at the same time, Donald Trump in again his petulant grudge moods gets angry at other countries and starts to insult them. Gets angry at other countries and threatens to throw tariffs at them. gets angry at other countries and says, "I'm going to literally take over your country." This kind of insane um you know, world domination, dictatorship things, we haven't seen that really for a good long time on the planet Earth. And to think that it's coming from the United States president is horrifying. So those two factors have really damaged the United States reputation in the rest of the world. And there are a number of thoughtful people in other countries that understand that this is happening because of one crazy uncontrolled man who is currently the president. But the really scary idea, the really scary thing that we've got to keep in mind is even if we think we can or want to or want to try to rebuild those alliances, even if we go in and start up our aid programs again and we apologize to other countries, which is going to be necessary. It's going to be necessary. Even if we do these things, we have no guarantee that the good feelings are going to be restored. Some of the damage could very well be permanent. And that's something that the United States is going to have to live with. And for all of the MAGA people who say they don't care that quote they need us more than we need them, in other words, the rest of the world. All kinds of bad stuff could happen that's going to end up doing significant damage to the United States which ignorant, shortsighted, xenophobic people will not recognize, will not see, and don't care about until all of a sudden something goes wrong and it affects them and suddenly they are going to be slapped in the face with this is what you supported. This is what happened because of that man that you voted for and put into power. >> Yeah. Oh, you covered a lot of ground on that. I'd like to drill down on some of the points you made. So, this whole thing about manifest destiny is it's it's targeting I I use the current tense. It's targeting certain places in the world and essentially destroying relations uh with the countries that it's targeting. I list them. Uh, and there are more, but Greenland, Canada, Mexico, Panama. We haven't heard much, but he was attacking Panama, Venezuela. He did in fact attack Venezuela. Um, and of course the insults directed at countries in the EU and the EU generally in NATO. Uh, and of course USAID, you mentioned that. And he has failed to help Ukraine. He has not followed through on doing that. Left it to others. um and of course this crazy war against Iran. So I I get two kinds of um countries reacting. One is a country that that has been attacked that he has been attacked that that he has attacked and the other kind is is that he is you know not attacked but they they see what's going on. In a world of television, in the world of media, the whole world sees what he is doing. Even if they are not being directly attacked, even if they are not, you know, in the strict sense allies of the United States, they could be or at least they could be on the sidelines, not anti- United States. Um not and they could they could have um you know some feeling about us even though uh our reputation might not be as good as with an ally per se. The world is watching. Media is everywhere. And the message that comes out of this, including those remarkable statements, you know, they need us, we don't need them. Imagine going on the world stage and saying that, you know, you're not going to make much friends that way. It's it's a it's stupid and and terrifying. Uh and everyone in the world sees it. So my first question to you is um you know it's more than just the countries involved. It's more than just the traditional allies of the United States. It's the whole world sees this and thus our reputation and that's the right word to use affects everyone. Everyone good, bad and otherwise. Do you agree? >> Yes, I absolutely agree. And one of the big problems is that Donald Trump is a bully. Donald Trump is actually a very scared person who's very threatened and easily hurt, but he covers that up with aggression and insults. And again, it's a typical bully thing. A bully will talk big, but then when they're pushed into the corner and it starts to get scary for them, a lot of times they'll fold. Now, Donald Trump is not going to be it's not going to be possible to push him into the corner because he's got so many people in the federal government that will bolster him and keep him going. That that isn't going to happen. But that is what he is. And the problem is that he sees that as strength. He sings he sees that as power. He has spent his life being a tyrant. He has spent his life backed up by money to be able to threaten people, to walk around and talk like he's a big strong guy. Well, again, he sees that as power. The problem also is that there are a lot of people in the MAGA base, which fortunately is now only about a third of the country, but that's still a big chunk of people. A lot of those people also agree that him insulting people, him picking on other countries, him retaliating for no reason, they see that as power, too. They fall in with his whole idea or what he has espoused of all these other countries take advantage of us. All these other countries have done stuff to us. Now we have to take vengeance against them. And a lot of this is just imagined. But a lot of it is also this is what intelligent people did to set up the United States to the position that it was in so that it was powerful without people insulting, without people being a bully on the playground in second grade. But it was done through diplomacy. It was done through negotiations. It wasn't done by walking into the room and insulting people. So this is again Donald Trump does this. Donald Trump thinks it's powerful. Donald Trump's base thinks it's great and they cheer for him to do this. So that is the reason that all of this is going on and all the thoughtful diplomacy that I mentioned that led up to this point that the United States did for decades is now been kicked aside because a crazy guy is running everything. So yes, everybody in the world sees this. You're absolutely right. Donald Trump is in such a position of power. Donald Trump loves publicity. He's always loved publicity. He's always loved to be the center of attention. He thinks again that that strengthens him. That shows his power, etc. So, of course, now he's the most publicized person in the whole freaking world. And he glories in it. And if anybody snipes at him, he has to pull back and and try to insult them. Even though it's those snipes hit him where he's delicate, which I take great power, I take great pleasure in when he does get angry and get hurt. But unfortunately, then he takes vengeance. But he gets so much publicity and he does this again through outlandish stupid statements that on one hand again are part of his general personality but also it's very likely that he has dementia. And when you have dementia, the the things that were formerly in your brain that kept you from doing outlandish things, kept you from doing offensive stupid things, those fall away. The filters go away, the barriers get knocked down. And then the first stupid thing that comes into your mind, you just blurt it out. And that's also what he does, which causes all of this international damage. Now, what has he done as examples? You mentioned these other countries. Canada, Canada is absolutely there is no reason to attack Canada. There's no reason for him to have gotten this concept in his empty head that Canada should be picked on. Canada's like the country, the United States closest ally that's always been supportive. But he goes into this crazy thing of intentionally saying, "You people are so insignificant and so stupid and so worthless and so beneath us that we're just going to take you over and make you the 51st state." What an insult. And it's again intentionally to belittle the entire nation of Canada. Um what else has he done? He has actually come out and said the United States quote needs Greenlight. And this is totally what you said, manifest destiny. It's uh it was a the a founding or a very foundational part of the United States in the 1700s, the 1800s into the early 1900s of the USA has land granted to it by God because a lot of this was based on Christianity. And the United States is therefore entitled to occupy all of North America from the Atlantic coast and the Pacific coast down to the Gulf of Mexico, not the Gulf of America, up to where Canada was. And there was diplomacy to set the boundaries between those two countries. And so the United States says all of this is ours. We are entitled to it. It God granted it to us. And then we can go beyond. We can take the Hawaiian Islands. We can take Guam. We can take the Philippines, we can take Cuba, we can take Puerto Rico, and then if we want to go into um Central America, we can take parts of Central America. And even if we don't take over Central America, we can assist through government shenanigans uh companies, American companies to take over parts of Central America. So everything within this sphere surrounding the continental US became targets of we're entitled to take it and therefore we shall. After World War II, the that went away. It wasn't overt manifest destiny. It was we will build our influence through foreign aid and diplomacy. Sometimes we will interfere and actually cause havoc to benefit us, but most of the time we're going to do it through being nice or being friendly or being helpful or being generous. And that's where the United States got to based on all of those concepts, which again, Donald Trump comes along and looks at all that as weakness. So therefore we must destroy it, we must threaten, we must bully. And unfortunately he installed Pete Hegsth as the uh secretary of defense who of course then immediately changed his title to Secretary of War. Pete Hgse is a total enabler who is completely incapable of doing the job that he was that he was named to do because he has no business even being near that position. But again, Hexath is doing all exactly the same things under the toutelage and under the support of Donald Trump of threatening bullying. And then this whole crazy idea of macho masculinity is the foundation of the military. So we must get rid of females who are weak and we must get rid of people who aren't white because, you know, white people want to rule the world through the Christian nationalism credo that he's a part of. And so that's a good a big part of this whole thing that we see going on under the leadership of Trump. Again, threats of violence, threats of, you know, threats, threats of taking over other countries. That's what Hitler was doing. That's how the third that's how the Second World War started in Europe. That's how the Second World War started in Asia. Japan was threatening and taking over other countries through warfare. Hitler and Germany and the Nazis took over other countries through warfare and Donald Trump is following in those footsteps of fascist dictatorships and there are people who are cheering him on. It's absolutely insane. Now, one other element here, another dichotomy, another phenomenon is uh what happens domestically. That's one thing when he goes out and does manifest destiny, attacks other countries, insults other countries, uh, and makes ridiculous public statements in an attempt in an apparent attempt to wreck them or take them over, uh, and destroy the Marshall Plan and all the goodwill we have built over the years since World War II. Um, however, there's something else here. when you start beating up on your own citizens, when you beat up on immigrants. Um, there was an article in the in the Times today about cages. Know if you saw that, cages in in Florida in one of these detention centers where they it it's called a a cage that's supposed to um calm you, a calming cage. And it's like, you know, six feet by three feet by three feet. And it's unbelievable. This is something out of Kafka um that they would actually have a cage like this and there were photographs of these cages and it's it's clearly a violation of every kind of civil right you can ever ever ever imagine and the world sees these pictures uh in the times. The world sees him beating up and killing people on the streets, productive people who are not criminals in any way or merely protesting. Um, we've been selling democracy around the world for all these years. We've been selling the First Amendment around the world for all these years. Some countries have picked up on it, but they can't pick on now because if they look at what we're doing, they got to be disappointed. It's got to affect our reputation. And so, it's not only the threats, the geopolitical threats and insults and what have you. It's what we do that affects our reputation. So my question to you is how are we doing in our reputation? You know just look at the world in a global fashion. Uh look at our hegemony um that we have achieved before Trump. Um tell me how it's doing now. What is the average country either a target of these um attacks and insults um or just a bystander who might have been interested in democracy, might have been interested in the first amendment, might have been interested in civil rights. What is our reputation with them? Now, >> it's very hard to say what the reputation is internationally because within any particular country, there are going to be a lot of different opinions just like there are in the United States. just like you and I are experiencing all the time. So, it is very difficult to say how pervasive the damage is that that all of these things have done that you've just been discussing. It depends on how much publicity they get internationally, depends on how many people find out about them. It depends upon the media in the other countries as to whether they choose to promote these things or report on these things or play up these stories. But I also want to say too that the United States, the hypocrisy of the United States as this is what we say versus this is what we actually do. People have been pointing that out all over the world in other countries ever since World War II. Um, when you talk about I mean it it can go back to as far back as the use of the atomic bomb or the use of bombing raids in general against Germany and Japan in World War II which killed untold numbers of civilians just anything down to newborn babies through firebombing and things like that. Um, and then continuing up through the Korean War and then into the Vietnam War, the Southeast Asian War into the 1970s in which very obvious atrocities were committed by Americans. In addition to bombing and just things through through weaponry, you know, people were actually murdered and bayonetted. Civilians were killed by American soldiers. And all of this was reported upon because not so much at the time necessarily but certainly during Vietnam it was um so a lot of people throughout the world and also too one another thing too was that um during the 50s and 60s during the civil rights movement there was a lot of um intellectuals in other countries in in Asia and in Europe and Africa and other places were saying look you people are saying you're the land of the free and the home of the brave and everybody's created equal and everybody has equal rights and African-American people in the United States are being brutalized and you're literally doing it in front of cameras and we can see you doing it and you claim you are for everybody's rights and yet right in front of us you're doing all this these terrible things. So, it's not as though the atrocities committed by ICE are a new thing because the USA's been doing it for a long time and those those bad things have been reported been shown to the rest of the world. But during those times in the past, even when you watched people being beaten to death and being bitten by police dogs because they were trying to protest, you knew that for the most part, the United States in many of those years was not run by a madman. Now, there were Republican uh dynasties or there were Republican leadership that were doing things like that that were less less excusable and more scary. But nobody's been as bad as Trump. Nobody up until now, nobody in the history of the United States has been as bad as Trump, as crazy as Trump, as dangerous as Trump, as as much of a bully as Trump. So all the stuff that you've mentioned in the past, people looked at it and pointed their fingers and said, "You America, you United States, you're lying about you what you claim you do. You are lying about how you you claim you treat your citizens and these this is what you've done. This is how we know." But now in addition to that, what's happening at home, the world sees more of it because Donald Trump goes out and and boasts about it. Donald Trump doesn't cover it up. Donald Trump doesn't, you know, talk around it. Donald Trump brags about it. So, this is even more offensive. It's even more It's even more damaging. And again, the USA has weathered those things in the past and people didn't come out hating it and not wanting to have anything to do with it. So, how much damage is occurring now, we just can't say. And let me also say, let me go back to what I mentioned earlier. The USA still has its good reputation as the source of popular culture. So, a lot of younger people in particular throughout the world are watching American videos and listening to American music and they're ignoring all the bad stuff and just enjoying the stuff that's coming out that entertains them. So that's still a very potent part of the USA's um public face that it will take a lot to break through that to where people will reject the United States as totally as we fear they might. >> Yeah, you're right. Um but um you know the more uh that he does the more that he says um the more that public face is being affected and every day that goes by with news stories like the calming cages in the detention camps centers uh you know affects everyone in the world. Yes. I'm glad you mentioned racism you know. Yes, we have had racism really from the beginning. We had a civil war over racism. Um, but you could say that the government in general uh said all through the years, we're working on it. We know we have a problem. We're working on it. Trump doesn't say that. He's not working on it. He's undermining it further. He's bringing out those people um you know who are racists. He's encouraging them. uh so I mean and that's only one of many many things which he is advancing on on the public the global stage so our reputation has got to be you know affected by all of that so let's talk about the the larger effect I mean for example you know what's happened with Canada is is a is a beacon for the world if if if Trump tries to bully you deal with someone else forget about trading with the US trade with someone else make make bilateral multilateral deals with Asia with Europe with everyone and ignore the US and don't buy U US goods and all that and this is this is a lesson it's a statement to the world and uh we can talk about how long that might last but for the moment our our name is mud in terms of you know what he has done and and the reactions of Canada will be if they are not already the reactions of many many countries countries in the world. Canada comes out to be a leader. I really I see Mark Carney as a as a global leader on those kinds of issues. Well, this has to this has to affect reputation. It has to affect the hegemony. It has to affect ultimately the dollar's reserve status. We need to talk about that because you know this week um you know there was the maybe it's still going on uh the uh the bricks meeting in New Delhi and one of the big you know discussion points was uh are we going to maintain the US dollar as as US is not involved in this meeting right all the other guys are involved the ones who would like to see the US fail um uh so they don't really care about keeping the US dollar as a reserve currency and they'd like to ultimately they'd like to have some other currency and maybe the oh uh the Russian ruple uh or the uh Chinese uh R&B or the uh or maybe even the the Indian uh rupee uh be the reserve currency or right now for right now they say let's have a basket of currencies let's not have the US monopolize the reserve currency and they represent a huge part of the global economy. So this is not an empty statement and this is a direct effect of the loss of our reputation, the loss of our alliances around the world. But what's the result ultimately if the US dollar becomes weaker uh and the US dollar as a reserve currency is undermined. How does that affect you know the global reaction to Trump? >> Well, let's explain what reserve currency means. Reserve currency refers to money that other countries keep as if it was a bank account that they could draw upon for whatever they need. And it is something that backs up their currency, stabilizes their economy. And back in 1944 towards the end of World War II, which I mentioned earlier, the rest of the world was in many cases ac economically trashed. The United States was extremely strong. The United States has a strong and powerful economy at that time that hadn't been damaged by the war, but in fact been strengthened by it. So at that time it was internationally determined that the dollar the United US dollar would become the world's reserve currency. Meaning it was going to be the basis upon which every other currency was going to be based. It was going to be how you determine the value of your currency. It's going to be our currency is worth this much in US dollars. And that's what has is still the situation today. The problem is, I mean, not the problem, but the situation is that right at the moment, no other currency still can match the strength of the dollar. So, unfortunately, it's not as likely that the dollar is going to it's certainly not going to fail. It's certainly not going to go away, but it can be chipped away at in the way that you just mentioned. In other words, you don't have to have just a single currency, but you can say, "Here's our basket of currencies against which we measure everything else, which is going to be the stability of the world's financial and economic system, not just the dollar." If the dollar loses that power, people have, again, it's this sort of mega idea of who cares about the rest of the world? Those other countries are irrelevant. They're all smaller. They're all less powerful. They don't have they can't do anything to us because we're so big and strong. Nobody in that gang understands or even cares about the reality of wait a minute, if the US doesn't have that power economically anymore, then the US can't go push other people around as much anymore. If other countries start to be able to push back and say, "We don't need your currency. you can't, you know, damage us by manipulating your currency because we're out of that. We've kicked you aside and we don't care anymore and you don't have that power. That's going to make a huge difference to what the United States can do internationally in all kinds of ways. And there are other ways that uh other countries that have reserve the dollar as their reserve currency can manipulate it as well to potentially damage the United States. Now, most of them, they're not going to do that because they will damage themselves in doing so. So, in this particular case, the dollar strength is such that it's not as likely that that damage can happen. and certainly not on a mass scale. But as you just said too, as I just said as well, they can chip away at that. They can start pulling away from the United States and saying, "We're just not going to deal with you. We're going to do our own things over here. You aren't going to be able to push us around. You're not going to be able to dictate to us. You can threaten us, but we're gradually going to gain power enough to where we won't care. We won't be threatened because you won't have the power you used to have." And that's something that again doing all of this damage internationally through the destruction of aid through um through the insults and the threats and the and the threats of being taken over militarily. All of that stuff. Again, the average MAGA has no concept of what that's doing on a bigger scale or what the longterm effect of all of that's going to be. It may be just chipping away right now. It may be a gradual slow loss, but as you and I discussed before we started this show and and this is something that I remember very clearly from reading about the depression in the United States, the Great Depression in the early 1930s and we know this. I mean, you keep we keep seeing it. Economic catastrophes sneak up on us and suddenly they happen and when they happen they take off like a fire that you can't control. 2008 we had a financial catastrophe of the loss of you know huge amounts of money that people had sunk into the real estate market and suddenly all these people are underwater with mortgages millions of people and again it's thought usually it's because the government wasn't regulating things properly but aside from that when an economic thing suddenly pops up and takes off it causes a tremendous amount of damage before anybody can get it under control and then you have a long slog to try to climb out of it. And if enough other countries don't want to play the United States game anymore, then the slog to gradually claw your way back up is going to be that much harder when it happens. And it will. There always are economic downturns. Whatever the reason, there always are stock market crashes. There always is inflation. There's always loss of buying power. All of this stuff is going to happen inevitably. Things go up and down in cycles. That's everybody knows it, but everybody sort of pretends that it doesn't happen and doesn't want to think about it. But again, if the United States is ruining itself in everybody else's eyes, the chances are of something like this occurring with the rest other countries ganging up against America. It's going to happen in some way, MAGA people. You wave it aside or don't even think about it. But when it does happen, it is going to touch you. It's it's it's like it's like oil prices. Oil prices are up primarily because of directly from what Donald Trump did and starting a war with Iran. And of course, all kinds of other dominoes will fall because of that. And that affects everybody. Well, it's just like it's like what we're talking about here. The the crazy whim of Donald Trump to start a war in Iran has all these other long-term effects which come right down to all of us all over the world. Everybody is affected by oil prices. Everybody's affected by the availability of oil. And uh you can claim it doesn't it doesn't make any difference and you don't care about it, but you're lying. It does make a difference and you are going to feel it particularly again when we talk about reserve currency. That's a crazy concept that most people don't even think about but yeah someday that's going to affect us. >> Let me offer a thought about um the way people feel about the US. Um my observation is that in the early days of Trump's uh 51st state claim against Canada, um the people in Canada would say, "No, no, no. We we love you, the Americans. We don't like Trump, but we love the Americans. We've always loved the Americans." I think there's a lot of places in the world where people have felt that way. But if you ask a lot of Canadians today, they say, "Wait a minute. You guys voted for him. you left him in office. You were unable to impeach him or stop him. Um you know the Congress was useless. The Supreme Court is useless. It perpetuates these things. The entire government is useless. So you can say, you know, you're still, you know, regular Americans and you we should like you because you're regular Americans. You've always liked you for that reason. You're responsible. you guys are responsible for this this craziness and you can't distance yourself from the president you elected twice. Uh and I think that's probably part of the recipe here. Um not only in Canada but around the world. So I think you know u every day that goes by it becomes more difficult to repair the damage to our reputation. The other thing is that as and when um we get back to balance here, there's going to be accountability. Now, it may be more accountability than you want. It may be less accountability. There may be truth commissions and prosecutions and a lot of reversal of these presidential proclamations and actions by Congress. I I don't know when and whether this will happen, but there will be a reversal of some of the things that people have pied us, pied us for. There was a guy who wrote an article in the Irish Times. They asked him, you know, how do you feel about the US? And he said, I pity the US. I pity all those people in the US. They got they're they're really in trouble here. And is that the way we want is that the way George Marshall wanted us, you know, to come out on this? Is is that what he hoped to achieve? That we would be pied. That's the way a lot of people feel. So anyway, as and when things change and we have accountability, then the world looks at those proceedings, all those people are going to find out a lot more about what was going on under the hood. They're going to find out more about the corruption. They're going to find out more about, you know, the bizarre nature, the inappropriate incompetence of public officials in this country. um you know the the dumbing down of the government, the stripping away of the State Department and all that. They're going to find out about that. They're going to find out about our health policies and the people who were dying from measles already, you know, because we we gave up on public health. Um, and so that's another element, don't you think of of our reputation that we are to be pied and that the accountability prospect after Trump is out of office will only make them pity us more. >> Well, okay, let me put it this way. We have seen a number of times in history when a corrupt evil government is overthrown, comes to an end, and then there's this period of retribution and reckoning and making right and taking vengeance and all of that stuff. And it never happened at that level in the United States compared to other countries. And for example, um, Cuba in 1959. Cuba in the 50s was run by a corrupt dictator who was a economic boom. I mean, uh, Batista was his name and he the country was booming economically, but everybody knew that he had secret police who were doing evil things behind the scenes. And when he suddenly fled uh on New Year's Eve in 1959 and Castro, Fidel Castro took over, there was this period of retribution and there was this period of a great deal of um publicity about these are the evil things that the Batista government did and they were on TV every day. I mean, they were broadcast all over Cuba and there was a great deal of publicity internationally about it. So, there was a great feeling of, okay, we're going to drag all the dirt out in the in the open. We're going to make it all. We're going to show it to everybody and we're going to say these are the people who did it. You, you and you, you did it. You are going to be prosecuted legally. I mean, and I think that's what has to happen in the United States. I think that there has to be there have to be public trials essentially. It's like the Nuremberg trials. It's what was done to Japan and and Germany after World War II. public trials, heavily publicized about finding and singling out the people who deserved to have their evils shown off and then legal repercussions happen to them. I think that's going to have to happen in the United States. Now, will that if it is publicized heavily, as it should be and ought to be and I hope will be, is that going to help rehabilitate the United States in the eyes of all these other countries? I would like to say yes, that it will. I would like to say that millions of people in the United States will feel exhilaration and exaltation of finally we are making things right again. And if the rest of the world catches on to that and sees it and says yes, United States, thank you for putting things right. Thank you for admitting what this previous administration did. Thank you for showing us and telling us and showing us that you are fixing those things. Maybe the reputational damage can be repaired. Um and if as we said at the beginning, there are going to have to be apologies. It isn't just that they're going to have to be trials. It isn't just that people are going to have to be incarcerated or punished legally, which which there which which there should be by the way, but people in power are going to have to go to the rest of the world and say, "Please forgive us. Please forgive the United States for what it did under the tyrannical rule of this crazy dictator who we have finally unseated, who we have finally taken away from power. Please forgive us for what we have done. What can we do to make these things right? And there will be, you know, the MAGA base will be screaming of how dare you show such weakness. How dare you gravel and beg to all of those people who aren't even white, who aren't even Christian. Um, how dare you? But it's going to have to be done. And I hope it is done. And I hope the un the United States survives to the point where the retribution can be taken where and when the legal everything legal is taken care of and people have been publicized for what they did and they have been they're now incarcerated for what they did and that we can in the United States say please we're so sorry. We're so sorry and we're going to not let it happen again. And here's how we are going to build the safeguards which were so easily pushed aside and bulldozed by Trump and his followers. Because again, it's shocking how many things that we all thought were really ironclad barriers to that happening. Nobody's going to go beyond that because there are legal pre repercussions. Nobody's going to try to push this wall over and do these bad stuff. Well, hell, they certainly did. And they did it like that without any nobody nobody nobody you know if anything there was like a little don't do that you're not supposed to do that and they go ahead and do it anyway. Well we're going to have to show that we we've stopped that. We're going to have to show that no this can't happen again in the way that it did here and here's why we here's what we've done to pro to make sure that doesn't happen. So yeah this is this is a long road to try to get back from. I agree. You know, and and and they're these um truth commissions, this prosecutions, what have you, they're going to be a revelation for the world. Things that we don't know right now and things the world doesn't know right now. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, for example, another article in the paper was that it was determined, it was found, reported that one of the olgarchs in Russia paid for Trump Junior's wedding, recent wedding, which was a spectacular wedding. Wait a minute. What is what is that telling us? And because that does affect American foreign policy and and you know, the position of the United States to support Ukraine, it tells us a lot. And this is should be must be examined that Trump's strange relationship with Russia must ultimately be investigated if we are to have any kind of reputation going forward. But let me let me say this though. Um you know if if there is as and when uh a better president a democratic president come out of this in 2028 I'm hoping hoping hoping uh or soon. Um and and he goes or she to Europe and he says what Biden said. He said America is back. And the guys in Europe say, "Wait a minute. We heard that one before, you know, and we and we believed you, at least we have believed you then, but how can we believe you now?" Because what we have found watching America, you know, in since Biden said that is America is is rotated. It's rotating between one and the other. You say you're back. Next time around, you're not back. You have a flawed system in this in America. um you're not going to be able to come back. So, sorry. Um but you cannot convince us that you're really back. And I and I think that's that's probably how a lot of people leadership and countries are going to react. The other part of that I want to mention before I ask you for your final comments here today is we had a we had a guest on ThinkTech uh was on a radio at at Hawaii Public Radio by the name of Jack Balkan. Balkan was a history professor at Yale. And um I asked him, this is in the day when W was president and and I asked him, "How are we going to get back to the way things were before before W Bush?" And he said, "Jay, you got to understand that every leader leaves an impression, casts a shadow on the history to follow. You can't go home again. You can't get back what these guys do, good, bad, in this case bad. You can't completely reverse it because um it it's it casts a shadow for a long time. It's part of the fabric of the history of the country. And so even if we had a very good president, a it would take him forever to address the problems that have come up and he may not be able to address some of them because as you say there's the base will oppose him, you know, and he won't have a clear path to simply fix it all to repair the damage either domestically or internationally. And I think that's that's part of this whole thing. So, A, they're not going to believe us, and B, maybe we're not going to believe us either. What's your final comment on this, Doda? I can again look back in history and say, okay, look, other countries have been through worse than this. other countries uh at the end of World War II, Japan and Germany were faced with un unthinkable atrocities by a scope that's un unbelievable. Uh Russia under Stalin underwent again immense numbers of atrocities. Millions of millions of people were destroyed and killed. And Kruef in the 1950s had to come forward and say to everybody in the USSR, you know what? That was a terrible mistake. What Stalin did because he was a crazy um paranoid man. He trashed our country and and we have to acknowledge it. um Japan and Germany had to do massive changes to their entire systems to sort of get people to where they could think like human beings again instead of automatons under tyrants. So this has happened over and over again. So it can it can be done but your professor friend was absolutely true is in that it doesn't go away. You get beyond it but you can't wipe it out. and you can try to wipe it out and say it didn't happen and it doesn't work. So yes, people everybody's going to know that the United States did these things, everybody's going to be able to see them, read about them, etc. So again, um are enough enough people in the rest of the world going to change their opinions of the United States? We just don't know. You know, you and I were talking beforehand um about what we were going to discuss on this show, and one of my responses was to the questions you were asking was, "We just don't know. We're going to do what we can do. We're going to do the best that we can do, but how it takes, how well it takes, what people end up thinking and believing, we don't know. We just have to do it and hope for the best." >> In some ways, you got to look hard. It's the best of times because we are learning at some level, >> but in many ways it's the worst of times. That's where we are right now. >> Yep. Exactly right. Exactly right. I mean, we're we're our eyes are being open to things we never thought could happen. It can't happen here. No, no, that will No, no, no. That can't happen in the United States. Oh, yes it can. It's happening right now. >> Yeah. Anyway, let's leave it there. Thank you so much to our co-host to Sodto Brown. I'm Jay Fidel, host of Connecting the Dots. The title of this episode has been, "A Trump ruins the USA's international reputation, what's the damage and how do we fix it." Thanks so much to our viewers for watching. We'll see you again soon for the next one. Aloha. Aloha, Dodto. >> Aloha, Jay. And thanks to all of you, the uh Think Tech people who support us, too.