Are Artificial Sweeteners Bad for You | The Real Problem Nobody Talks About | Mind Pump 2941

All right, we're going to talk about artificial sweeteners. So much controversy surrounding them. We're going to talk about the actual dangers of using them, it's a little clickbaity. Yes, this is true, but we're really going to get into it. Artificial sweeteners. Let's go. >> Oh, wow. >> This topic, >> we talk about this. We used to talk about this a lot. We haven't talked about it in a long time. Um, I remember this was u anytime you bring this up, >> I think back to uh what brought Lane Norton and us all together the first time >> was this. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was >> actually that was one of the more viral episodes we ever did because at that time Lane was ascending uh we had been podcasting for a while now and uh this was one of the few things that we didn't fully agree on, right? And and uh there was a lot of buildup online and so everybody thought we were going to get into like a big >> this is going to be this huge war we're going to have or something. >> Yeah. Well, it's uh we're not we're not really pro or con artificial signatur but but the con part is not for the reasons that people think. You know what prompted this for me was I saw Max Lugir did a post. Our good friend Max Lugavir, who I I love so much. He's got tons of integrity. >> Uh he he and he's very objective. So Max will uh he'll change his opinion based on data and he has on a couple things. Um and he doesn't he like I said, he's got a lot of integrity. So I really appreciate him. and he's like, "Oh, you know, I have the occasional Diet Coke." And people were lighting them up >> uh over Yeah. just over the artificial sweetener thing. So, here's the deal. And And now, as coaches and trainers, I'm going to just say this straight up. Uh I was never pro artificial sweetener, but it's not for the reasons that you might think. So, I do want to get this out. They're unlikely physiologically dangerous. Uh there definitely is a lot of scaremongering surrounding artificial sweeteners. Like they could cause cancer or brain issues or chronic disease. Stay away from them. They're totally bad for you. They've been studied a lot. >> Okay? They've been studied a lot a lot. By the way, that's not perfect because you can't be 100% with studies. But there's a lot of studies done on artificial sweeteners, human studies for quite a while now. >> And they've been around for a long time. And so a lot of the stuff that you'll hear, the fear stuff surrounding them is just that. It's kind of scaremongering. So what we're not going to say here is like avoid artificial sweeteners cuz you're going to get cancer or avoid them because they're going to kill you. Uh that's we're not really in that camp. Okay. Now, of course, if something comes out to show the otherwise, of course, we're going to be like, "Okay, here's what new data shows." But again, we still don't advise uh people to use them. It's not something that I ever promoted. Um, [snorts] and it's for other reasons, and that's what we're going to get into. I >> I've never changed my mind on these. I've remained consistent since day one on this. Um, I consume Diet Coke. I've openly talked about it since we've started the podcast. Um, I think that if you are a competitive athlete, meaning competing on stage, bikini, bodybuildings, uh, men's physique, things like that. Uh, we used, uh, artificial sweeteners and things like coffee, we used diet cokes, we used things like that because these people were so meticulous about their diet. They were tracking every single calorie that uh, it worked. What I found with regular clients uh that uh had a hard time tracking consistently or never tracked and thought they would use diet coke or low calorie, no calorie foods and drinks uh that were replaced with artificial sweeteners to restrict calories or cut back on calories. It actually didn't work. It worked in the moment where they said, "Oh, I'm not going to have a regular Coke. I'm have a diet Coke." And they would have it, but then they would make up for those calories and other things. And we found that the the artificial and I noticed this even with myself when I have them. It like kicks up my appetite. So I now I am aware of it and so and I've learned to balance my macros and I've done that for a very long time that I can allow those things in the diet occasionally and be okay. But the average person who needs to lose 20, 30, 40 pounds that is using these, you know, no calorie or low calorie sweeteners to replace calories end up making it up somewhere else. So it becomes moot. >> It doesn't work. No, in real life, uh, it doesn't work as a weight loss strategy. And you see this in the studies. So if you track every calorie that goes into your mouth and you cut your calories, you'll lose weight. And this is when artificial sweeteners can become a strategy. And Adam just talked about this group of people that do that who are competitors who get on stage. The average person doesn't do this. The average person tracking every single calorie uh and macro is part of a strategy, but you don't live this way. You never live this way. This is part of a strategy that allows you to kind of become aware of what you eat. Maybe if you're reverse dieting, you're trying to figure things out, but eventually you want to get out of that. You don't want to just track everything. And so when you look at the data uh on this and people are told, hey, replace your normal sodas or replace your normally sweetened foods with these low calorie, no calorie, artificially sweetened foods and then let's come up, let's follow up with you 6 months later. They don't help with weight loss. They just don't. Now you the science says they should, right? If I'm cutting 500 calories of of sugar out of my diet Yeah. >> and I don't replace it, of course I'm going to lose weight. But that's not what happens. But always don't see that with behavior >> which by by the way when I wanted to make this clear too because our our our buddy Lane will cite like the studies that show that when they do this but this is in a controlled environment where you know that's this is where where studies don't always uh do us a favor, right? It's it's great that we understand that yes, if it's pretty obvious you take something that's zero calories, you replace it with something that has calories over the course of six months, then of course you would lose weight. Reality is though in in in the context of the real world and the people that are not in a a study where they have to track or have to follow everything by these rules what ends up happening is they have it doesn't change behaviors right and so >> and that's what I'm interested in >> right and so you know yes very aware of what the studies say around artificial sweeteners and how it can help with weight loss problem is nobody is is working within the confines of a study in real life and so you have to ask yourself over the court and this is why there was there was debate between us and rightfully so what does our good buddy train mostly >> competitors so not only does he understand the science and the studies he also has a bit of a bias because a majority of his clients are >> they track everything >> they are like me they're weighing and so it works for someone like me that does that is tracking weighing and measuring everything and so the and the difference is what did we train mostly I didn't train that many I trained more competitors towards the end of my train zero average people yeah that was way later most still 80% of my client book over 20 years has been General Pop, >> right? And so here's so I'll get into so first off, it doesn't really work in real life. Uh, by the way, they've been they've been around for a long time. If you look at the amount of calories people get from sugar in the average American diet, if they did work by now, they would have worked at least in some significant way. But what's happened is we've just gotten more obese. Um, and so they just in real in the real world, in real life with real people's behaviors, they just don't work. Here's the part here are the parts that I really don't like. Um, when you're consuming something that is very sweet or savory or palatable, okay? Anytime you consume something that hits those uh those senses that fires the brain in that way cuz an artificially sweetened soda has no calories, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect on my body. Obviously, yeah, I perceive the flavor. How am I perceiving the flavor? my brain is perceiving the flavor. Something's happening in my brain that tells me that I'm drinking something very sweet. Does that have potential negative effects? Well, physiologically, probably not. Psychologically, yes. And I'll even point to this physiological uh effect. It'll change how you perceive palletability. And this is just a fact. If you consume lots of sweet tasting things, even with no calories, other things that are sweet or naturally sweet, let's say like fruit for example, starts to become perceived as less sweet. In fact, here's one of the things I would run into with clients who had lots of diet sodas. They didn't like the taste of water. >> This was shocking to me as an early trainer. I remember when I first became a trainer. >> Yeah. >> Now, I didn't grow up with lots of soda uh in my household. You know, we're kind of a traditional southern Italian family. We drank water. We never had lots of soda. So, I didn't grow up with this. And I remember I'll get these clients and I talk to them about water intake. And I remember the first time someone told me this like, "Well, I don't like the taste of water." And I was like, I remember I thought they were joking. And and they were serious. I'm like, "What do you mean the taste of water? It's water." [laughter] Like, "What are you talking about? >> It's boring. I don't like drinking water cuz it's boring." >> And then I kept hearing that from more and more clients. And and then I started to realize these are people that grew up drinking lots of soda, either regularly sweetened or artificially sweetened. And the the the way that they perceive sweetness or the way that they perceive flavor or the experience of food has been altered because of that to the point where water tastes gross, fruit is bland, and whole foods don't taste good. And we have, this is well documented, by the way. This is well documented with heavily processed foods. If you eat a lot of heavily processed foods, whole natural foods start to taste less and less exciting and more and more bland. Why? Because they're engineered to be that way. So, you cannot find something in nature that has the sweetness impact of a diet soda. It just doesn't exist. And so, does your brain adapt to that? It does. We know this. And so, does this affect behaviors otherwise? In other words, does this affect other behaviors with food? It definitely does. And so this is what I found with my clients. Like if we avoid them, we tend to do better than if I let you put them in your diet, except for the people that track every single calorie that goes in the mouth. >> It just never really worked. >> Well, I mean, I know I noticed the difference with the my palette with like fruits and vegetables. >> Yeah. >> Fruits and vegetables become more bland the more those things that you have in your diet. You take those out of the diet and now fruits and vegetables >> start to taste, >> burst flavor. Yeah. And and and again, when when we're in the business of helping people change habits and behaviors, uh it's not always about the science and the math. It's about, okay, if I can get my client to do X, Y, and Z, will this help them long term? And in this case, more often than not, uh having them in there is not ideal. >> Well, yeah. You think about like every single meal like growing up and like that's that's a hard association to break. So you it's a big ask for your client to to be able to have, you know, a meal and then have something with that meal that doesn't have flavor to it. Uh so but I used to run into that a lot like water is just so boring and like I need something with some flavor. Yeah. It just it was just because every time they're consuming that was the ritual that was the part of the process and so like yeah it does make a big difference in then how that affects behavior. >> So our brain uh adapts uh to stimulus in this way. So, I'll give a couple examples that are not related to palletability, but are similar in the sense that your brain starts to adapt. So, uh I have little kids, okay? And when I put on entertainment that's made today for little kids, it's it's radically different than the stuff that I used to watch when I was a kid in the early 80s. When I was 5 years old, I watched Mr. Rogers. If I put Mr. Rogers on today and compare it to like Coco Melon, Mr. Rogers moves so slow. It's insane. It's crazy how slow it moves in comparison to the new hyper stimulating stuff that they make for kids. And if you Now, if you showed me Mr. Rogers when I was five, I loved it. I loved I watched it and it was great and I enjoyed it. You show a kid who watches Coco Melon or something else all the time, Mr. Rogers, they hate it. Their brain has adapted to the hyper stimulus. This is also true for other things. For example, pornography does this to people when it comes to traditional intercourse. In fact, you'll see erectile dysfunction has now exploded among young men because of pornography. It's so hyper stimulating, so hyper novel that the real thing just doesn't do it. Why? Because the brain has adapted. So, when I'm constantly consuming artificially sweetened foods and beverages, it's going to affect how my relationship to the rest of food and it's not going to affect it in a positive way. And I'm going to point to a second piece here. Okay, novelty. So, Adam said something earlier that I people love to debate and I know Lane has even tried to debate this, but it's because they're looking at the studies wrong. So what we have said in the past is that consuming uh like artificially sweetened foods or beverages will make you eat more. Now what they do is they'll go on the date they'll go in the study they'll study if you consume a soda with that's artificially sweetened how does it affect uh ghrein how does it affect hunger in some of these ways and it doesn't it doesn't make you hungrier but that's not what we're talking about what we're talking about is the effect of novelty and satiety. So, let me give you guys an example. When you're eating a food that is very savory and salty and you eat so much of it that you're like stuffed, eat something sweet and then go back to it and watch what happens. >> Yeah. >> Suddenly, you can have it again because you've interrupted the perception of savory with sweet, which introduces novelty. >> Override it >> and then you can go right back. How do people consume sweet artificially sweetened beverages with a meal? So, I'm consuming a meal. If I'm washing it down with something sweet, I will probably my my my uh my level of satiety won't hit as quickly because I'm constantly interrupting it with novelty. So, I'm going burger, diet coke, burger, diet coke, burger, diet. I'm going to eat more of the burger fries >> than if it was burger, water, burger, water. Even though they have the same calories, >> it's because it's interrupting with novelty. And this is what you see when people have art artificially sweetened beverages with meals is it changes how they eat the regular meal because of that novel. >> Well, there's also the the psychological piece that's attached to that where when you when you drink a soda, let's say a regular soda that has what is it 160 calories or something like that per can >> and you and you're trying to lose weight and you're trying to be good about not overeating calories. There's something that psychologically happens where you there's a like, oh, this I'm taking in calories right now versus, oh, this is calorie free. Let's go crazy. >> So then what it ends up letting you So then what you make you do is like, oh, I'll have a bunch of these and then you, to your point, you end up it ends up being a novel stimulus while you're eating French fries and something else and then you end up eating more of that cuz this is zero calories. So there's also this psychological part of like, oh, this is free. It doesn't count. So I still have more room for something else. And so there's there's there's more going on than what these studies control for for the average person. And again, this is coming from a person who I I drink openly talk about. I use artificial sweeteners and do it. So it's not that it can't be done. Um but it just doesn't seem to work very well for the average client. >> No, it's never been a strategy that any of have any of us have used to help someone lose weight. It's never been one of my Oh, you know what? Let me look at your diet. Here's what we're going to do. >> Let's swap that out with diet soda. Let's see what happens. And nothing. >> I've only had great success with it with my competitors. >> And that's a completely different >> when they are they are looking for because they're in this deprived state all the time and they're looking for some sort of a treat, right? >> And so we use something like, you know, uh artificially sweetened jelly on rice cakes, you know, or we use a diet coke or something like that. And it gives them this, you know, rush. Yeah. This Yeah. And and that person again, they're weighing and tracking everything. Uh and let me tell you, they still went to bed hungry and they still went to bed under calories. So, uh the average person though, they have that they go, "Oh man, it's so good." Then they have something else. So, it's uh yeah, it's just never worked well for for regular clients. >> No. And and I'll add this lastly. Okay. Yes. Although the studies show generally safe, aside from the things that we talked about that affect things like behavior uh around food and palletability and how your brain adapts to that constant, you know, um signal of sweetness. Besides all that, yeah, generally safe based on the studies. But here's the deal, and I can make this as 100%. It's a fact. It's not as safe as water. >> Just not as like like we don't know what we don't know. Now, I'm not one of those guys that's like [clears throat] hyper fear-mongering, like don't don't ever have any chemical because we never know what we don't know. You know, I I I'm more like that with things that are new, with things that haven't been studied for decades. But this is also a fact. We just don't know what we don't know. Uh we've been drinking water since day one. We we know what it does. Our body's made up of it. Uh I I we will never be able to say a a diet soda is as safe as water. And we just don't know what we don't know. We don't know if it affects the microbiome in some way that affects something else. We don't know if it affects fertility a generation later. We just we don't know if it if it acts within another chemical that we get from something else and both of them individually don't seem to cause an issue. But when they seem to combine, we seem to have some problem. We don't know what we don't know. And so the people that are like it's perfectly safe. No, you can't possibly say that. By the way, water is very safe, but that's not perfectly safe either. You could drink so much water you die. So, so nothing is in that category, but definitely water is water. And these zero cal and the reason why I'm saying this is the fitness community, especially the the like the aesthetically focused fitness community. If something is zero calorie, they place it in the same category as other foods or health because it's zero calorie, it's a health food, >> which no, that's just that's just not true. Well, to the water point, um, a lot, so for we talk a lot about how protein, so many people underconume protein. I had a lot of clients that under consume water. >> Yeah. >> And more often than not, uh, somebody who was the three to four zerocalorie, you know, you know, drinker every single day, uh, were the ones that were underwater. They had three or four, uh, diet cokes or artificially sweetened drinks, >> were dehydrated >> and but then drank no water whatsoever. to the point you made that like the poor clients like I just can't stand water by itself. I know >> it is wild but it's also I mean I remember when we first started working with element it was one of the points that you made what's so great about it is it's so I mean it's so good for you as far as the hydration piece to it but it also tastes so good. You get people who aren't big water drinkers using it. >> I would prefer I prefer moving them that direction as well. Although water is water like let's just go with water. Speaking of element, by by the way, I got to tell you guys a little hack that I did with this. So, so if you're not familiar, Element's an electrolyte powder, and it's got about,000 milligs of sodium per serving, which is good, which by the way, when they first did that was kind of radical because everybody's afraid of sodium. >> But the truth is, if you need electrolytes, you need sodium. You need a decent amount of sodium. So, if you need electrolytes, that's what you want. But anyway, little hack is people take a preworkout before they lift, mix it with uh element. you're gonna have a big, you know, jug of pre-workout with water. Throw element in the extra sodium and uh with the water will give you way better pump. >> Like way better. In fact, I'm shocked >> you've mixed them. >> I throw them together. It's so good. >> So, do you do you use a pre-workout that's a flavorless? >> It doesn't. No. All flavor. It doesn't matter. >> Really? >> Yeah. It's good. >> Oh my god. >> No, it tastes great. >> Really? >> Yeah. It tastes great. >> I don't know if I trust your It is good. >> Really? >> But I I'll say this. I am shocked. >> Blueberry with wild cherry. Well, also I'm I'm shocked. >> He's definitely the guy when you were we were kids that did the 10 slurpee flavors all in one. >> Yeah, you did. You so were way that mixed all the It never tastes good. >> There's There was always that kid who did that who like did mixed all the slurpee flavors. It's not good. Looks like poop. >> Yeah, it does. [laughter] It comes out of crappy flavor. >> No. So, uh a lot of water and sodium. Uh you know, 30 minutes before your workout will give you the best pump ever. Uh so, and we've talked about that for a long time. So, I've used Element >> pre-workout, but just mix it with your preworkout uh and you'll get one of the best pump. In fact, I'm shocked and I guarantee someone's going to do this. Now, I don't know why pre-workout companies don't just add 1,000 milligrams of sodium to their formula. I don't know why, you know why they should, Justin? Besides the fact that you'll get a better pump, sodium increases palletability. >> So, if a if a pre-workout company adds sodium to their >> I wonder what the theory is on that. It's salt, sugar, and fat are the are the main components in palletability. >> I know, but I I wonder what the what the theory is on why a pre-workout wouldn't have a bunch of >> because there's still sodium >> like fear maybe. >> Yeah, fear. >> Yeah. That's I mean, that still lingers, dude. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. People that are a little like le >> although I I tell you what, dude. the pre-workout formula market. I don't think anyone would really care about [laughter] I don't think the amount of millig if you got hypertension marketing to healthy >> yeah if you have any hypertension >> yeah if you have hypert should take a 300 milligram caffeine >> it's [laughter] probably a bad >> yeah I wonder I wonder what the the reason that we had uh >> but yeah sodium is part of palletability so for pre-workout added thousand not only would people get a better pump and it's cheap it would barely touch their margins >> but they but the flavor would be better without changing anything >> I wish I had this when I was playing football. It was just like one of those things I would always hydrate like really well and make sure that I, you know, I drank, you know, quite a few days before like one of these like big games where I knew I was going to sweat like a ton. But >> dude, I want I wanted to bring this up because there's a guy in our backyard that's he's 47 years old. He just signed up and he's on um San Jose City College. He just like made it on their like junior college team and he's playing football at 47 years old. He's what position? What position? >> I I don't know a position. I think it's defense. Like I think Yes, I think so. >> I mean, anything but but kicker is is probably impressive. >> He's like playing real football like where and and of course like he's making kind of a social media. He's like kind of documenting it and stuff and he's like, "Dude, you just look at his fingers all busted up. He's got all these bruises and all this stuff." I'm just like, "Wow, [laughter] awesome. >> That's a year." Yeah. A year from now. There's such a difference running into something real hard when you're 20 versus when you're 47. >> That's kind of cool, bro. >> It is cool and I applaud him. It's >> Did you find him or meet him or what happened? >> Oh, no. This was on like a Bleacher Report thing that I I read and then um they highlighted him cuz it was, you know, it's that's kind of a crazy story to be 47 and like getting after it now. He had a huge like he I guess in high school he was like you know a great athlete and then like had all these injuries and it prevented him from playing >> and so I don't know I guess he got a wild hair up. >> I mean I I think that makes it even crazier right to because most people you get all those injuries and then you hang it up and then you you definitely don't come back at 47 and then [laughter] you play at the competitive collegiate level. I mean that's wild. I >> I was just having wild I was just talking about with my buddies about this. We were talking about the you guys I think you shared one. It's like these short clips on social media where it's like 20-year-old guy coming out of the back of his truck and he jumps down and it's like a 48-y old guy and you know he's [laughter] like he's like turning around trying to figure out how he can get down without jumping and he sits on his butt and slides out slides down >> still twists his ankle. Yeah, >> we were talking about that. I was my one of my buddies is like, "Dude," he goes, "Uh, I'm working out, you know, and I'm starting to feel good. I want to go play pickle ball." He goes, "I didn't even get to play." I'm like, "What happened?" He goes, "I bent over to pick up the racket and I turned and popped my back. Good. Stop. [laughter] You're laughing so hard, >> bro. So, so embarrassing the conversations I feel like I we had. So, this weekend I had a my fantasy football party at my house and stuff like that. My buddies and I, my best friend and I, my best friend is uh he's coaching his kids soccer team now. And he's in good like he's good shape guy like uh but he's not like a workout guy. Like he just maintains his weight. Uh eats relatively healthy. He's very active and so he always maintains like good weight. and he probably walks around at 15% body fat without exercise. Okay. >> And he's and he's always been like athletic. He does outdoorsy stuff and everything like that, but he's just not a workout guy or he hasn't been for a long time. He used to work out when he used to live with me. >> And uh he's he's motivated to want to get back in the gym and he's telling me that he was coaching the soccer game. He's like, "Bro," he's like, "Man," he goes, "I I picked up the soccer ball and I threw it across." He go and he goes, "And I can't get rid of this pain now in my elbow." [laughter] I'm like, "Dude, you can't stay power." >> Yeah, you can't do that stuff. something we talk about all the time. Why? We talk about on the show all the time and it's like you hear it. It's like the last thing you want to do is throw or do anything remotely explosive at that age when you haven't trained for it. You just can't you can't do it anymore, dude. Or else absolutely shoulder elbows done. [laughter] I almost want to go to one of those games, dude. I would I would just like watch. >> I mean, you got to you got [clears throat] to keep us updated cuz I would love to follow I mean, that's an interesting story to me >> to be able to at 47 years old and to play at that level, too. This isn't like wreck ball. No, I mean in in junior college they're really trying, you know, to prove themselves cuz, you know, obviously they're trying to get like into think he's going to get with all the other players on team. They all probably like, "Let's go, dude." >> Yeah. I I mean, maybe. Yeah, maybe. Or maybe or they all call him and they're all >> I'm sure they call him, but >> Yeah. I know. It's funny cuz I that actually was the college I used to like I was trying so hard to get my speed to increase and like, you know, get my 40 time better. and I worked with their track and field team and uh so I I remember that you know exclusively I was like I was doing everything all the parachutes I was like running in their pool like everything I could do just to shave that you know little bit of time off and oh my god dude I it's one of those realizations you're like dude I I can only get so far [laughter] >> so more power to this guy if he thinks he still has it you know >> I mean making the team at that age is would be impressive >> that I mean just him I can't believe it. >> Yeah. I mean, that that that's impressive itself. Regardless if he gets that much plank. >> I had one of those realizations again recently cuz my I've told you guys about my brother who doesn't work out. He just doesn't work out. He went to the gym. Oh, you know, I finally did a workout as I did 12 reps of 225 on the bench. >> Oh my god. >> Get out of here, bro. Why'd you get all the genetics? All the genetics. He got all the genetics. >> Shows up and just starts. >> Yeah. Whatever, dude. You know, I just I'm just >> Do you ever do you ever think though cuz I think about this like the uh that's why I'm I'm grateful for all of my childhood, okay? It's just that I believe like I am who I am today because all the all the course, >> right? And so like would you become like like would you have been him? You know what I'm saying? Like no drive to really lift because it's like I could go lift whenever I want. >> I don't know. But I just know what's the potential. >> Of course. Of course. >> And I don't know how to I try I was like telling him like cuz we did we made sauce this weekend. So you know my family every year. >> Oh, you guys did that? >> Yeah, we made sauce. Oh, you guys did that this year? >> Yeah. Yeah, we did. >> Oh, I thought you were thinking about not doing it. >> We did it last year. We didn't do it, but this year we did it. And so we were all there. >> Who hosted it? >> My mom. It's always my mom's house. >> Okay. It always is. >> And so we were all together and when are you going to bring this sauce every year? I've never got I've never got a jar of sauce. >> I just forget. >> Never. >> I'm sorry. >> What is the point of having who bottles his his sauce by the >> hund There's other friend aside from sauce. You guys call me in the middle of night, need some help with something, you know, you know what to call. But anyway, [laughter] we were all hanging out. I was just I'm trying like motivating my brother. And so my buddy shows up and I'm like, "This guy got all the genetics." And I'm telling him, he's like, "You don't even work out. You do that." He's like, "No." And then my brother's trying to talk crap, you know? He's like, "Oh, my my brother Sal's like a four-cylinder twin quad turbo." He's like, "I'm a V8." You know, he loves to say that. And I'm like, "Dude, if you just can you just do what I tell you for like just for like six months, bro. I just want to see what happens for like six months." He's like, "Nah, I'm all right." Oh, come on, dude. >> Doesn't care. Doesn't care. care, dude. You just got all the genetics. >> That's painful, dude. >> But we did 1,000 lbs of 1,000 lbs of tomatoes. >> 1,000 lbs. Whoa. >> Roma tomatoes. >> Uh, yes. >> Yeah. >> So, my dad picked them all up and then >> Where do you Where do you guys get them from? >> He goes down uh it's like it's on the way to Sacramento. I forgot the town. >> Is there like is there is there a I would think that there's like a place that you always go to? >> So, we used to So, the the tradition was uh and this is not just my family. A lot of Italian families do this every year. They make sauce. But, uh, originally when my when my mom was a kid and they did it, they would go to farms and pick the tomatoes themselves. >> Wow. >> So, they'd pick the tomatoes. >> Then bring them back and then they do the whole process. Now, we just go and buy the boxes. >> So, my dad went, I don't remember what town it was, but he went and picked up 1,000 pounds of tomatoes, brings them back, and then it's like an assembly line. So, uh, and I always do the same thing. Always I'm always the guy that washes and cuts the tomatoes. So we have these huge barrels that we fill with water and you move them in each barrel of water so it gets successfully cleaner and then you got to cut them in half. Then you bring them inside and we have this machine that you stuff the tomato that oh no then they cook the tomatoes. >> Then you take the cooked tomatoes and you put them in a machine and the machine spits out this the skin and the seeds and spits out the sauce and then they there's some other stuff that they do with the jars. I never I was never been involved with that so I'm not quite sure but then they put the sauce that's usually the women are doing that part. Seriously. So, we're all We all kind >> compartmentalized. Yeah. >> It is. And then they and then what they do is they put the sauce in the jars and then boil the jars and it seals them >> and then Yeah. We have like tons and tons of jars of of tomato sauce. >> Wow. >> The best part is always at at night after we're all done, we have fresh pasta with sauce. >> Oh, yeah. I'm sure that's so good. >> Do you do you feel like uh can you do you think you can tell or does can your family tell like when you when you go to different farms? Like is it like is there is it very clear on like oh this was a good season like can you tell that or is it just >> I don't know good question. I don't know. I just cut the tomatoes. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> I mean I feel like there there's a part of it that's kind of like good wine, right? Like I mean part of what makes great wine is the grapes is where you get the grapes. >> Well the good news is we're in California and so this is like some of the best >> growing for anything is around here. Luckily cuz if you're in another part of the country that's a good question. I wonder where families in other parts of the country cuz Italians do this every year. >> Yeah. Wonder if they ship them in or something. >> They might. Right. You know, East Coast. Where are you getting your tomatoes from? >> I don't know. >> We're not far from one of the like a capitals ever. Selenus is known for all of that. Like I think there it's it's one of the best year round climates for for growing like tomatoes and like forget what else, but I've looked it up before. It's like >> artichokes for sure. >> Yeah, that too. Well, you know, in so you know, San Jose, in fact, I just watched this video about the history of San Jose. San Jose was uh this is this was like all farmland and they grew some of the best fruits and vegetables here for I think the military base in San Francisco and the in other parts of the state. Uh and San Jose was like and it was known for its very fertile land. >> It was all farmland here. >> And then of course they discovered Silicon and then became Silicon Valley. Forget that. But this is supposed to be some of the most fertile uh land in the world. >> Yeah. Is it more the soils? Is it more the cl I always thought the climate? Yeah. I always thought it was like the the climate uh makes >> the soil and the climate supposedly are really good. >> Yeah. It'd be interesting to hear from somebody who has obviously that pays more attention to that cuz you don't is the is the like is there a huge difference? I would think so. I think I would think like you get like a great season of of tomatoes and it's like oh this is the best sauce we've we've ever had. How long does do you know this? Do you know how long does sauce say good once you've canned it? >> Oh, a jar could last two, three years. >> It can. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. So, sick. >> Yeah. So, it's like you go to my parents house. [laughter] >> Just jars of sauce, bro. >> I know. It's on anything. It's It's so awesome. >> Hey, have you guys seen Did you Did any of you guys watch the Grand Theft Auto on uh Netflix yet? >> No. >> Oh, no. I saw uh the trailer for that, but I didn't get watch yet cuz Did you watch it on Netflix? >> Just the trailer? Yes, >> that's what I mean. There's a 25minute trailer. >> I didn't watch the whole like for the video game clip of it started running. >> Yes. Can you pull Netflix up on here or no? >> Uh boy, I don't know. I have to log in. >> Um so it is >> You can't find the trailer on YouTube. >> You know, you know, you know what they you know what they spent building this game? >> Oh, I can't. >> It's been working for They've been building it for years, right? >> How much? >> How many times they delayed? It's been like a few years of delay. >> Yeah. Because of what all everything between one and two billion dollars >> for a video game. >> For a video game. That's crazy. It's the most expensive by far. nothing even close to it. So, uh you know, we've there's it's been real quiet uh to talk about metaverse for a while now, right? It's pretty much that was like a a flop for Facebook and everybody else that was kind of pushing the direction. >> This has the highest potential in my opinion >> of what they were trying to do metaverse wise. Now, I don't think I don't think you're going to you're not going to wear goggles. You're still going to be playing it on a video game and TV, but they're making it to where you can get paid to play. You're going to have real interactive stores and things that you can buy in the real and if you watch the trailer on this, like even like just the first three minutes of it, you feel like you're watching a real movie with real people >> and [clears throat] you're obviously controlling it and stuff like that. But it's it looks I knew I've heard about it forever, but to see it >> Okay. And I'll go, "Wow." I'm like, I've been so out of the video game world for so long. But it's like, this is going to be >> Yeah. Cuz I remember hearing they really the the detail of being able to go inside all the buildings and like be able to like Yeah. run a business and do all these like crazy things inside it. >> Do you guys think if all video games disappeared today that the society would get better or worse? Make no change. You think if all video games disappear today, get worse? Well, like if you like ripped the band-aid off for worse or you mean if like it didn't exist and then people had to figure out what >> I mean I guess we could get all uh like >> because it's like think of it this way generally speaking cuz well think the way my brain went when you said that >> everyone's addiction. >> Exactly. It's like it would be >> No, seriously. I mean you'd have all this energy. No, 100%. Like so so >> besides that besides that I think Yeah, cuz you're right. Cuz that would be that would be wild. >> Yeah. It's like me it's like you asking like if if uh you know a drug name a drug that's highly addictive didn't exist we be I think generally besides that generally you'd see a lot more people socializing. I think you'd see a lot more people going out. >> Yeah. >> And hanging out with each other. Doug, if you were to went if you would have went just to Netflix, the streaming service, like literally right on the front page of Netflix is >> Yeah. I don't know what's going on where they sent me, but >> it's okay. I mean, you guys can watch it another time or whatever. >> But you guys literally I mean, I just wanted you to see the first two or three minutes on it. If you go to the homepage of Netflix, you'll see it. It's being it's obviously being promoted. Right. There you go. Top left. There you go. Oh, >> and so just play it and then you can do >> So, does this mean they're close to launching? >> I believe so. I don't know if the boys know if Dylan or or >> they said in November. >> Oh, is it November is when they're Yeah, that makes sense. Probably Black Friday time. >> Watch the first couple minutes. Let's see. >> Oh, wow. Yeah, those graphics are sick. >> I mean, he obviously he doesn't have it volume up right now, but they have like you have like full-on interactive conversations, >> huh? >> It's so rated R, too. Like it's like yeah very very it's wild that you can do something like this. >> So can you like create your own character? Are you like running as a person that they already have? >> That's a good qu that's a good question. I don't know if you I imagine this game is so interactive that you'll be able to build your own skin and probably be some of that. That's be something you could probably pay for extra. >> I'm sure. Yeah. >> Would be my guess. >> But the uh I mean it doesn't feel like a video game at all. It feels like you're the whole I I watch like the first 10 minutes of it. It feels like you're you're watching a whole movie. Yeah. With a plot that's like so interchangeable and stuff. >> That's wild. >> I'm gonna uh change the subject and talk about uh a commonly used uh medication that helps with hair loss and some of the crazy side effects that it produces. So, uh finasteride, have you guys ever heard of finasteride? Super popular. Dutasteride. Finasteride. Okay. So, >> they both prevent the conversion of testosterone to DHT. And DHT is a hormone that the male uh body has and I don't know if the female body has it but I think also and it has some roles. It's androgenic. So it's very androgenic but it also can play a role in hair loss. And so reducing DHT in many cases can stop hair loss or maybe even reverse a little bit. But I don't know if you guys are familiar with some of the side effects of finasteride, but it's it's not one that I would mess with. I'd be much rather much better off being bald. And I know some guys don't most guys don't experience these side effects, but if they do >> Whoa. Like erectile dysfunction kind of stuff for what? >> Permanent, right? >> Like permanent numbness in your penis. >> What? Permanent. Like some some guys will get like their sex drive is gone, then they go off and it doesn't come back. >> Sometimes it takes a year to come back. Sometimes it doesn't. >> Yeah. >> Uh suicide, >> increased risk of depression and suicide >> from this drug. Now these are not huge. >> Is this going viral right now? Is this like a a >> there was an article uh that was posted? >> I just saw a clip literally before we got on. It was in my feed. His uh >> so this the New York Post just did an article about this healthy 26-year-old uh who had penis numbness orgasm problems. Uh and it was in a year and a half after he stopped taking it. Still stuck around. But you could look up Doug. You could Google finasteride and suicide for finasteride and depression. And it's like all in pursuit of just like not losing your hair. Now, it's not a huge risk. So, of course, I'm going to be clear. It's not like it's like uh this massive risk, but it's still a risk and it's pretty crazy. >> Yeah. >> This must be what the So, I saw that. What's that? What's that kid's name? Clavicle. >> Yeah. Clvicular. >> Clavicle. [laughter] >> I knew I knew some I knew some other stupid name. [laughter] It popped in my feed and Logan Paul was interviewing him and he made obviously it's going viral this clip right now. He made this bold statement of I'd rather and they must have been they must what I didn't see and it makes sense now that this is in New York Times and you're bringing it up and like why this even popped in my feed that uh you know he would rather uh not be able to his dick be numb than to be bald. And so what I'm assuming is because he takes all this stuff, right? He's he does all this stuff, takes all this stuff. He's probably taking that. And I'm assuming that Logan Paul was asking him, "What about what they what's come out recently about this?" And he made the point that he would rather be bold. What are >> you doing? >> Yeah. I think that's crazy. >> Crazy. What are we doing? Dumb thing to say. What are we worshiping here? >> Well, some people are just really uh I I I didn't realize it until I started shaving my head on the podcast. um how many people opened up to me about how like how much they struggle with that >> and it was really tough for me cuz I really I can't I couldn't relate I mean I could relate to going bald [laughter] >> but I couldn't relate to caring you know your identity was a little wrapped >> and I think it's kind of wild because I got like psorias spots and everything so I like I'm not like that's not the most like uh you know awesome situation for me. It's like I'm not only do did I go shave that but that's also areas where I have my psoriasis. So, it's like, you know, I'm sure there's insecurities and I don't like it, but it doesn't it doesn't phase me like it phases some people. Some people it's boy, it really uh scared to death of it and it's to where they're doing all these things preventively before they are even going bald or or they have gone bald and it just is crushing uh their confidence. And like at was asking me like how I dealt with I was like man I I I wish I had something good to say that I had to work through to get there. just it was I was trying to shave my head sooner. >> You know, there's something you could do about it cuz okay, you can't like I I guess you can't just will your hair to not fall out or you know, are there things you could do lifestyle wise? Probably not much, but you could get jacked >> like jacked and bald is just is a thing, dude. >> Yeah, I know. >> It's a thing you guys like if you really feel bad about it. Not to mention, >> getting jacked requires work and discipline and consistency that builds confidence like crazy. That also shows prospective mates that you're that you've got some drive. It creates that within you. Just be bold and jacked. >> I mean, I I think that's I actually think that's a really good point because you even though that seems so it seems different because it's like but it's like your physical appearance I I think uh I would think but maybe we're not the right people to ask the opposite sex would prefer a bald jack dude than a dude with all his hair and sloppy. >> Yeah. Like I just don't I mean I would think that that you would go that I would think. You know what I'm saying? Like but that's >> Dude, we have a buddy. I'm not going to say too much because he gets offended, but we have a buddy who's bold who recently just got jacked. Dude, he looks way different. >> Oh yeah, >> he looks way different. >> Oh yeah, >> bro. I just saw him the other day and I'm like, "What are you doing?" >> I mean, he was at my house this weekend. >> He looks incredible. >> He was at my house this weekend. >> I'm telling you, Balden Jack is actually It looks good. It's like a It kind of goes together. >> Oh, yeah. >> A little bit. >> Yeah, it does. No, it does. And he was getting compliments non-stop all week all all this weekend. So because we were it was like a pool party. So he's walking around with the shirt off and everybody was really Oh yeah. Everybody's like, "Dude, >> that's so funny. >> You're crazy, Jack. I've never seen you like this." Yeah. >> Ain't nobody [snorts] talking about the bald head. [laughter] >> Nobody said nothing about that butcher. You're butcher bald. No one said no one said that. >> Yeah. No, it's >> Yeah. No, I don't know. I don't know what that is. How much does that cuz I've seen like somebody like I think it was Juji Mufu actually like like >> he went and did his he >> went and did the plant where or >> well in Turkey now they got the they got the they got the >> Yeah, there's a whole business around that. Um how much do you think that cost? >> Expensive. >> No, it's not. >> Well, I don't know how much is in Turkey. >> Look it up. Look it up. Look up turkey. Uh bald whatever. I don't know what you would transplant. >> Hair transplant. Thank you. Hey bald. [laughter] >> You tell you can tell how many times I've Googled it, right? I have no idea. >> Don't type in. >> I had a buddy of mine, one of my one of my buddies who is did like, "Hey, bro, let's go. Let's go to Turkey." And I'm like, "Dude, I don't care." You're like, "Why, dude?" >> So, it's for it's between $2 to $4,000, but then you got to fly there. >> Okay. Fly, stay there. >> Bro, it used to be like a 40. >> If that's your main crisis, >> it used to be 40,000 plus. And it used to not be as good. Like now, like it's >> in the US it's 8 to $18,000. I have a buddy who did it and he took a picture of his head the day after. >> Oh yeah, you're messed you're messed up for a while. >> It traumatized me, dude. >> His head looked like a mushroom. Oh, it just because of the trauma. >> It looked like a mushroom. >> Yeah, you're you're inflamed for I was traumatized. >> You're inflamed for a few days. You look pretty rough for like a week or two. It takes I think a solid >> Can you lose the hair again? You can, right? >> I don't know. >> Can you? Yeah. Like you lost it the first time. >> Is it like money is that a money back guarantee? >> Yeah. It's like real hair. It's your real hair, dude. >> So, you're just replanting it? >> Yeah. No, dude. I'll just I'm just >> Yeah, it's wild. >> There's There's a lot There's a lot of uh fitness people that have I've seen I've seen the I mean, they it works. I just I don't care. >> Yeah. >> This is like But I care about you. You know what? I care about as much as I care about my calves. >> Yeah. Hey, you know why you don't care? It's like a new lawn that they're you know shaving. >> And you know why you don't care, bro? Cuz you're jacked. I'm telling you, [laughter] >> guys. Listen to me. Go lift weights. Your hair's falling out. Go lift weights, dude. It fixes it. Totally fixes it. >> Yeah. Rock whatever you got >> or you know another or get rich. You know what I'm saying? Make a lot of money. >> There are two things you could do >> that will negate it >> for sure. >> Go make some money or go live some money. >> Heaven forbid you do both. >> If you're rich and Jack >> Yeah. If you're like if you're fit and you and you are successful like come on. >> Baldhead sexy suddenly. [laughter] >> Suddenly it's attractive. Yeah, you know, I got I pulled up some studies on uh exogenous ketones, just to change the subject here, and um pretty consistently improves cognitive performance in healthy people. Sometimes a criticism is that the ketones help when people have metabolic dysfunction, which is true. Uh but in healthy people, consistently shows cognitive improvement, which is funny that we need a study for this. Just try it and see for yourself. >> Yeah. Right. >> I take I I take two a day every especially when we podcast. Two of the ketone IQs. Oh, I love those. >> When we when we podcast, >> it's been my favorite [clears throat] thing to add now to like because I'm a caffeine drinker is the the back half. It's like my go-to back half of the day. I was like frontload caffeine early >> mental sharpness stimulate hardcore and then like keep it going with the I think it's I anybody who who loves coffee or energy drinks for the morning for work and you haven't done Ketone IQ like I urge you to try that. Try doing that like start your day with your normal caffeine like you do and then once it wears off and then yeah wear off midday take the ketone IQ and >> yeah dude perfect >> yeah it feels great >> dude I I have this idea okay [snorts and clears throat] uh for and okay so I saw the store I don't know where it is I think it might be in Asia somewhere but there's this like rock climbing store and they made it so it's basically a sevenstory uh rock you have to climb just to get into the store. So, it totally eliminates posers. Like, >> that's kind of cool. >> Which is great. And so, if you get there, you actually get the gear, you know, and so like if if you're wearing it, people are like, "Oh, okay." You actually had to like go climb to get it. >> So, in order to get in, you have to climb. >> Can you show me a picture? By the way, >> you imagine us doing that for fitness. I mean, that would be so we get so much backlash, you know, for that. >> Oh, you want to come to the gym? >> Super exclusive. >> Yeah. By the way, Asia is a lot of countries. You said it. Well, I somewhere in Asia in Korea [laughter] like the continent. >> There's this place on Earth. >> There's this place on Earth I want to go. >> There's a really cool place on Earth I want to go to. It's right there in the middle, you guys. >> Broad [laughter] swipe of the brush right there. >> Did you find it, Doug? >> It is. It's in Soul, South Korea. >> See, I was right. [laughter] >> Fact me. I see. That's why I go broad. >> Oh, wow. So, it's not like a rock climbing wall. It's just It's a rock. No, it's a bunch of stuff. Look it. Look. Looks like just one rock and then you got to go >> get through layers of the building just to get up. >> So yeah, bro. I think that's I It's cool. It's a cool con. I wonder how well they do. >> I I wonder what uh their insurance has to be >> to do something like that. >> Asia is different there. [laughter] >> Yeah. They don't have insurance >> restrictions on that. Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, it is smart. It is a smart marketing kind of because I'm sure people show up just to just to try it. >> I So, you know what? You know what I think is interesting about this? Uh I've and I think that we we're seeing the pendulum swing. Uh we went so hard one way. I feel like we're going to come back the other way. One of the things that we we went this [snorts] everything's all-incclusive. >> I think exclusivity is going to be like a big I see that coming back. >> Totally think more private only these people. I think that's going to become more popular again because we went so hard the other way. And this is an example to me of that is just like not everybody can come shop here. Sorry, can't climb the rock. can't come can't can't can't come in can't do it >> then it's not for you >> and I bet I bet we see more stuff like this >> do you know who started that that whole like you can't come in well it's been around for a long time but wasn't Studio 54 known for that where they would walk up to the door >> and the the >> you have to be like hot or >> the guy at the door be like no you can't come in or >> oh that's still today got like in trouble for that right because yeah >> do you know that do you know that a lot of uh and this still happens how how what a hit to the ego you wait in line you go up to the front the guy looks like nah What they this is what they do. This is still a strategy today is nightclubs downtown will everybody line you always see these crazy lines when you drive by will they have plenty of room to fit the people in. We'll restrict people coming in so other you see how crazy popping it is cuz the line so it looks like there's exactly it's marketing for them and then they'll go and they'll handpick the people. >> So you're you're next in line, you know, but you're goofy looking. So they walk right past you. You know what I'm saying? And 10 people back. >> Oh, your ears are too big. Sorry. two or three cute girls. It's like, "Come on in." And so you move move the hot girls in and you >> You know, I never understood the appeal of nightclubs. I just never did. You go in there. I know. >> You're smashed. You can't hear anything cuz everything's so loud. It's dark. >> You basically have to get drunk. There's otherwise you're anxious. There's no other like I'm just anxious in here and I'm tight with everybody. And what's >> You didn't go You didn't go through a nightclub fit like this. You were You were married at 12. That's why. >> Yeah. [laughter] 12 years old. I mean, I was in Chicago, so I I did my share of like night. I like lounges, but nightclubs are like >> Well, yeah. Sound you sound like you sound like an old married man. [laughter] Like a guy. >> Did you like nightclubs? >> Yeah, it was cool. It was I mean, at a at an age, at a certain point in my life, now you knew girls were going to be there. >> Yeah. But you >> I like to I like to dance. I like to drink. >> Yeah. Yeah. As bad as I am, I still like it. You really like it? >> Yeah, bro. Bring it on. >> Yeah. >> I'm not ashamed. I'm not ashamed of that. Not ashamed of my ball head, but Let's go. Let's go. [laughter] >> Stop, dude. I didn't know you like the band. >> Well, no. No. Katrina will tell you that she can always tell how many drinks I've had by how good. She's like, [laughter] she go she's like under under four. He's embarrassing to be with six. All of a sudden, he's like everybody's watching him dance. That's [laughter] what she claims. Something unlocks. >> Yeah. Yeah. It unlocks something. And I'm not Hey, I'm not sober enough to know what it is to be able to put it together, but something happens, you know? So, yeah, that's what she says. >> I feel like Justin does the splits. >> No. No. Yeah, you did. I used to do like the worm and like you know fight people injustice. [laughter] >> Well yeah it turns into fights when I have too many tolerance. >> What's the number? >> Yeah. You never you never So you never went through the nightclubs Vegas scene any of that stuff? >> I did it a couple times but I just never understood. Like I did nightclubs where we had uh like table service where you're roped off. That's so different. Yeah, >> but when you're inbody, you're just slammed, smashed together and it's just not I don't know. I would I would hate to be a woman in that by having dudes all up against you and just it's just uncomfortable. >> Yeah, it's it's kind of weird to me that you'd see groups and they didn't want anybody to interact with them and it's like what are you doing here? Like you know it's going to happen. >> I mean I'm so I'm so pro that versus where where the society has gone the last 105 years. >> I agree. I think at least it's social. >> Yeah. I mean this this like stay home and swipe right. >> No, you're right. >> You know what I'm saying? Way worse than like who cares? Let's go out and get, you know, in a sardines in a club and maybe meet someone else. >> Rejected a bunch of times in one time and get like >> and learn the hard way. They look different when the lights come on later on. You know what I'm saying? Like that's all part of [laughter] growing up. It's all part of growing up. >> When the house lights come on, [laughter] >> OH MY GOD. >> LIKE, oh [ __ ] they really optimized the lighting in that bar. >> Oh my god. I saw a video of this dude. >> Everybody has to have that experience once in their life. >> He had a mustache. >> It's a part it's a part of growing up, man. So, yeah. No, I'm way more It's a part of >> I mean I don't I don't like it now at 45 [snorts] in my 20s like Yeah, it was I mean that was that was that was the thing that and >> you're right. It is better than what's happening now. Nobody goes out. >> Yeah. >> Dude, did you guys remember when there was a thing where there were these uh they were like nightclubs but you wore headphones >> so you [snorts] listen to your you listen to your own music? So, why are you here to be alone, >> dude? Well, what do we do? >> I just once I've seen they have like different colors. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, you connect with the person that's vibing to that color. Still think it's dumb. I just feel it's too >> It's dumb. It's dumb. It's like I was just somewhere. Where was I at? >> It kind of defeats the purpose. >> It's like, can I be alone while being around people is [laughter] like, you know, >> I forget what they call them, but they're they're like a they're silent dance parties or what? Uh, and you're right. They everyone's got these headphones on. They normally have like two or three different songs playing and they had the different colors. >> We're trying to just cater to introverts. >> It is the It is the I'm not a fan. >> A silent dance party. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Just a social gathering where you're not social. >> Imagine you just like walk in, you don't know, you know, and everybody's just like, "Yeah, >> one of the best reasons to to like to walk away and get a one-on-one talk is cuz it's too loud in here. >> It's too loud." >> Yeah. I can't hear. >> You're dancing with someone, you're vibing, you're like, "Hey, let's get out of here. I can't hear anything." She's like, "Yeah, yeah, cool. Let's go outside." Versus you're there as though soon as everybody can hear. You're like trying to talk to her. Start whispering. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Hey, I didn't Oh, you guys got my text last week. How I chipped my tooth. Let's fix that. Look. See these tooth? Emergency dentist. >> So, I chipped my tooth. >> Make it out with a guy with a tongue ring. >> That's 100% [laughter] theory. >> That's not what he said in the text. It was way worse than that. >> No, don't say it. >> I know. I was going to say it. I said a little less PC. >> It was way more PC, but it also involved the piercing. So anyway, some gauge. >> Yeah. So, thanks, Justin. >> No problem. >> No, I chipped my tooth and I felt it and I'm like, "No." Cuz my dentist doesn't work on Fridays and it happened Thursday at 5:00 p.m. >> Most dentists don't >> when he closed. So, I was like, "What am I going to do?" So, I'm like I'm looking around. So, I found a dentist that was like emergency and I went in there and uh they fixed it up. They also fixed the other one that was kind of chipped. Everybody makes fun. >> How did you chip both teeth? What were you doing? >> The other tooth chipped a long time ago. I forgot what I was doing. This one I was literally biting my nails and my teeth came together real hard. >> Oh. >> And I chipped a little. >> This happened to me before. It was so awkward. But like I had, you know, I have caps and so like I I had one that was just a temporary and it was on the very front and you know over the weekend I was like eating something and then I was out in public and I ended up eating the cap and I just had like one little fang right here. [laughter] >> Oh my god. >> Like hey >> Oh my god. >> And I had no idea. >> No, you didn't. Courtney's like oh like [laughter] I was like what what's wrong? and I go to the bat, I'm like, "Oh, no." >> Do you Is there a regular maintenance for veneers? Do you have to like regularly go like get them? >> I'm I'm sure there is. Look into that cuz Yeah, I'm sure they only last like I'm sure it's like a decade or so, but it's really Yeah, you have to get them done again. So, >> not all the way. I bet it's just like >> Well, just like >> Yeah, I don't >> reseal them or something like that. >> Not sure. Yeah, because the the technology they have now they're like permanent dentures is basically what they are, right? I mean, that's that's what veneers basically are, right? I mean, they're super durable. Like more so than than even like enamel, I guess. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're supposed to be they're supposed to last for a long time. I think maybe forever >> maybe >> until you're dead. Let's see. >> Oh, 10 to 15 years. Justin last 20 to 30 years. >> Well, that's what made me concerned. I was like, dude, really? Am I going to like have to go back in? >> Oh, you would think that that would be part of the deal. It's like you get them and then then it's it's not I wouldn't think it would be as much to keep them like maint. [laughter] So if you go let's see here 20 you get if you get 30 years out of me you just might chuck them up and just be like f it. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> If you you get you only get 10 or 15. You have to redo that. But if you're like what is that that's going to put you if you go 30 >> I'll be honest. >> 75 75 bro. >> This is my this is my >> scare all the kids your teeth. >> If I just have the spikes. Oh man. I couldn't rock that. >> Oh yeah. But they can fix that. Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Even if you're Jack Even if you were Jack it wouldn't look good. >> That doesn't fix it. >> Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't fix it. Hey, [laughter] >> you got to have good teeth. >> The dentist, she was doing mine and she's like, "Uh, so what do you what do you why do you need these done so quickly?" Cuz I call him like, "Listen, it's e like I work in media." So, of course, I started conversation. >> So, she's like, "Hey, uh, after you know, now that we're done, cuz I like them." I said, "Oh, you did a good job." She goes, "Well, you you can give me a shout out." I'm like, "You don't even know what media I work for." [laughter] >> You don't even recognize me, so you don't get anything. >> Her assistant's like, "Oh, >> I was being serious, though." You don't listen to my pup. You get no shout outs. Sorry, lady. I paid the bill. What did you get? >> You got to love that, right? Somebody's like, they don't even hook you up. Give me a shout out. >> Yeah, I know. You don't listen to my show. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's awesome. Here's your bill. You shout me out to She was really good. She did a really good job. But then she was telling me about Pilates afterwards. I'm like, you definitely don't listen to my [laughter] show. >> I don't want I don't want to get bulky, so I just do Pilates that sculpt. I'm like, >> dude, how often is she only knew who you were talking to? >> Oh, bro. I don't even engage those car. I don't even like >> I don't say nothing cuz then it's a whole conversation too much to >> and I don't want to discourage someone from doing you know. [clears throat] >> No no I'm the same way too cuz then it it turns into a long old thing and it's just like you know just go listen to the podcast sometime you know [laughter] >> tell me more about your reform. >> You know my business partner thinks dentists are all fraud. I'll see you later. >> Yeah. Yeah. And dinosaurs don't exist. [laughter] I'm just going to drop that. >> See you later. >> If you guys know how much I paid to fix the chip toothp. >> Oh emergency time too. Yeah, nice. It was a nice nice chunk. >> I don't even want to know that stuff is up to now, dude. >> You weren't about to show up on the podcast. >> No, bro. First of all, I don't care that much, but you guys would just The whole episode you guys been making fun of >> It would have been amazing. >> Yeah, we would have fun with that. >> No, everything is is ridiculously inflated right now, dude. I I was just texting my buddy. We were that he had to go get his oil changed. We have the same same car and he had it's only been one year since he had been there and I was telling him how much it cost me and he's like, "Damn, dude. you got to go over to my place. I'm like, he's like, they it'll cost half that. I'm like, I don't know, bro. I'm like, I don't think it had anything. I said, I think I think the guy hooked me up, too. And he goes, no. He's like, bro, I've never paid more than this. And he's telling me his number. And I'm like, all right. I said, well, >> 1995. >> Yeah. Well, no, it was just a year ago. >> Just a year ago when he went he went to he went yesterday. And uh I said, "What's your bill?" And it was 300 bucks more than mine. >> Wow. >> And I'm like And he's just like, "Dude, he's like, I tell you what, he goes, I might just handle this myself going forward." You know, along those lines, Costco has predicted since they've been in business every recession >> based off of spending habits of their consumers. Do you know what that know what it is? >> Interesting. >> You want to know what it is? And it's happening right now. >> Oh, tell me. >> Consumers when they switch from beef >> to chicken and then from chicken to tuna and canned meats. When those switches start happening, >> it predicts a recession and it's happening right now. >> So, Costco just put out a >> fascinating topic. Yeah. People move away from beef, then they go to the cheaper like chicken, and then away from that to the canned meats. And that's what they're noticing right now is a big swing. >> Interesting. >> That makes sense. Yeah. >> Cuz beef prices went up like up another 17%. >> Sure. >> No, it's nuts. Every everything is is nuts. What what the the prices are right now and it's not getting any better. Everything is is >> Dude, I I just went to um like the arcade like down with the boys. I had them by myself uh this weekend and I was like, "Ah, I got to get out of the house and let's go." We went down there and um you know, most games were like a dollar. Like that was one game. Yeah. One game. >> You know that game where you just shoot um targets has all those like lit up. You know how much that was? >> No. >> Five bucks >> to shoot just to do that. >> I'm so like I I And like I used to get over it, Dad. I can't get over this. [laughter] It's $5. Well, not only is outrageous. You start to do the math, you're like, "Shit, I'll just go buy this thing for home. [laughter] Guess use it three times in the next year. We've already made our money out of it." That's a >> I was like over in the old school section with like Cubert and you know Yeah. I'm playing stuff for like 50 cents. >> Do they still have the arm wrestling machine there? >> They No, I don't I didn't see that, but they had a uh um Guitar Hero like set up and I was like, "Oh, I want to get one of these for my house." >> They used to have a really good arm wrestling machine on the boardwalk. A really good one. And it looked like a pro wrestler. >> Yeah. the arm >> with the big arm and he'd talk crap to you if you couldn't beat him and it was actually difficult and I remember as a kid we would do it every year we went and it was I was 16 when I can finally beat it >> that's wild to think that in in just our lifetime that a game like that is $5. My grandmother used to drop me off here in San Jose when I was a kid at the Nickel Arcade and leave me with $5 and I would play for hours. >> Yeah. >> Hours. I played off of five five bucks. To think that you get one game you're done. Mhm. >> Nuts, dude. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It >> was like that that long ago, you know. >> Yeah. >> Wasn't that long ago that it was like a kid playing arcade games like that. That's >> When Doug was a kid, it was a shekele. [laughter] >> We had pong. >> Yeah. Tra shells. [laughter] >> It was a string. We just shook the string. >> Did you Did you guys see the the Did you guys see the the the pickle ball video I shared on my Instagram story? >> Oh, it was like like one of the greatest like rallies or whatever. I shared it. I bet a lot of people didn't pick up on it though because I shared it because of the comments. Oh my god, it's >> Oh, yeah. You got You'll enjoy it. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a I mean, it was a great rally. It It definitely was. But it's so uh the game is so easy. You know what I'm saying? That it's like >> minimal movement. >> Yeah. Very very minimal movement for this long. And the the comment section was just oh diabolical, bro. I was dying. So, I shared it, but then I thought after I shared it, I was like, "Oh, I bet a bunch of people think I'm sharing this cuz I've been openly talking about how I love pickle ball now that they're like, I think it's like you're a fan. >> Check it out. You know, this was sick." >> No, I I showed some memes talking trash, but it's funny cuz like I would I would play and make fun of it at the same time. >> That's how I That's exactly me right now. I'm exactly like I'm all in. Love it. I think it's great at the same time, too. I know it's ridiculous. >> Yeah. [laughter] So, >> don't try and hype it up. Coolest thing ever. >> No, not at all. Joy Mode is a pre-ex supplement. Uh, that's right. You take it before intercourse for better performance. It's also good preworkout. It's not a stimulant-based product. All it does, and it does this effectively, is increase blood flow in a big way. So, this product was created because ones on the market were terrible, and prescriptions come with all sorts of side effects. You don't want to get those. You don't want to get those side effects. Joy Mode is simple. It's easy. It's natural. And it really works. It's backed by data. Here's what you do. You tear open the packet. You pour it into 6 to 8 ounces of water. You drink it. And 45 minutes to 4 hours later, uh, you perform much better. Again, you can also use it as a preworkout. It's also good for endothelial health. So, increased blood flow is good for your vascular system. So, this also can be a health supplement. That's how I use it. Go check them out. Go to tryjoymo.com/mindpump. Use the code mindpump. get 20% off. Back to the show. >> Our first caller is Julie from Illinois. >> Hi, Julie. Hi, Julie. >> Hello. >> Hi, guys. How you doing? >> Thanks so much for having me on. I really appreciate it. >> You got it. How can we help you? >> Um, first of all, I just want to say thanks. You guys have been uh a welcome routine to my morning and I really appreciate all you're doing for uh everyone in the personal training space and the fitness industry to try and get people to be more um knowledgeable and be able to take care of themselves in a in a good way for life. >> Thank you. >> Uh so I did send you guys a recent update. I'm going to try and kind of summarize my initial email because I know I'm a little bit wordy. Um, so initially when I reached out to you guys, I wanted uh some assistance with knowing what type of program selection I should utilize to help with improving bone mineral density and strength. Uh, because my initial DEXA scan showed some osteopenia. Uh, at the time I was 46. Now I'm 47, 5' 4, and have been 115 pounds most of my life until recently. I am currently up to 130 after starting a reverse diet. Uh I think my osteopenia stems from years of excessive cardio insufficient nutrition and genetic factors uh petite frame caucasian with uh the goal of trying to improve my bone density before going fully into menopause. Initially I wanted to know what ideal rate I weight I should be targeting for. Um I did change my macros. Uh I went initially uh I was consuming about 2,300 calories. I bumped all the way up to about 3,200 calories a day. >> Nice. >> Macro tracking currently is about 120 to 160 for protein, 90 to 120 for fat, and about 250 to 300 carbs. I am fully vegan because of a lip protein a uh abnormality that's genetic. and I started that in December of 2022. Um, with my recent update that I sent you guys, I initially did your free 30 days of training when I first uh found your podcast, then did MAP strong, MAPS performance, MAPS anabolic, and I'm currently in phase three of MAPS aesthetic, but I'm not doing the volume that's recommended in the program. Uh so if it says like four or five sets, I'm usually doing three on the focus days, I am doing mobility or more like a recovery day. Although I had a strength training background before starting your programming, I was not consistently doing movements such as deadlifts, bench press, barbell back squats, and overhead press. Initially, I saw good strength gains with my reverse diet, but I feel like my progress has plateaued for a while. I've not been able to increase the amount of weight I can lift since finishing MAP's stronger maps performance and no changes occurred with MAP's anabolic in a calorie surplus. At the same time, my weight has increased and I feel noticeably fluffier around my abdomen and thighs. The number on the scale itself doesn't really bother me. It's more that my legs and my stomach are larger and I can't fit into some of the clothes that I was able to wear uh last summer, even um like around January. I have um I was at the 3,00 to 3200 calories per day until starting MAPS aesthetic. Since then, I've reduced my intake a little bit, averaging about 2,700 calories per day. I typically eat closer to 3,000 on the lifting days and 25 to 26 on mobility or walking only days. Um my workout has also changed uh recently from 7:45 a.m. to 5:00 a.m. on work days and later on non-work days. Because [clears throat] of the earlier time, I don't feel as awake or as strong during my workouts, and I expect that this will need to factor in how I approach my training going forward. I've also had some health changes since I initially wrote to you guys. I started HRT and thyroid medication u back in November with my levothyroxine and um progesterone being bumped up and then was given an estradile patch in April. Um, I've also been suffering some from elevated fasting glucose since August of 25. And I just talked to Vabella and started a GLP1 medication at a uh micro dose to try and get my uh fasting blood glucose closer to being below 100 because it's been running about 100 to 110 120 sometimes. I also did a repeat DEXA scan in January that showed normal bone density for someone my age using a T-core rather than a Z score that was used on my initial test. The scan [clears throat] did show a discrepancy between my hips and I did tear my meniscus on the left side at 30. Although my inbody scans in the past and unateral strength work does not show a discrepancy. Um so I guess other things you should be aware of. I typically get about 6.5 to 7 hours of sleep on nights that I have to work 8 to 9 on weekends, Friday through Sunday. My walking uh is initially about um or has been consistent. So somewhere between 8,000 and 12,000 steps. Lately, sometimes I hit about 15,000, but it's usually because I'm trying to do a post lunch walk for about 10 minutes. I'm also trying to rest approximately 90 seconds to two and a half minutes between sets. But sometimes I will pair exercises to make my workouts more efficient. For example, deadlifts with overhead press and bench press with rows. Uh current goals at this time are bone health, improving glucose control, maintaining or reducing my current abdominal and thigh size, uh so I don't have to continue to buy larger clothes, continuing to build or maintain strength without adding unnecessary body mass. So with that, I want to know how should I be approaching my nutrition? How should I structure my strength training given my current plateau, earlier workout time and slight calorie deficit? Should I continue with three lifting days per week or would you recommend a different training frequency? And what would you recommend at best programming? The best programming approach would be for my next year to prioritize bone health, glucose control, strength, and maintaining my current body size. >> Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for very thorough, Julia, for calling. >> I'm [laughter] sorry. Like I told you, that's right. >> It's probably everything you want and then some. >> No, it's perfect. And I could tell you listen to the podcast, which is great. >> Doing a great job. >> So, how since starting the micro dose of Tzepite, has that has that had any impact on your uh fasting glucose? >> Um, I've only taken two doses. It's been 98 to 100. So, nothing like significant because I check it every morning. >> Uh, what uh tell me a little bit about your diet. I know you're vegan. Uh, and you're consuming uh between 25 to 2,700 calories. What does that look like? What what makes up your diet? >> Um, so breakfast is oatmeal with mixed nuts, a Brazil nut for selenium, uh, a four a cup of mulberries, some uh, [clears throat] soy milk, and then two scoops of a plant-based protein powder that has no added sugar or anything. Um lunch is a very large salad that is um two cups of lettuce, a bunch of vegetables, half an avocado, homemade dressing. Um what else do we throw in there? It's usually about a 7 to 900 calorie salad including a cup of chickpeas that I air fry. Uh sometimes prunes, sometimes like a homemade muffin I make. Um peanut butter, like something along those lines. Dinner is a lot of vegetables. Um, at least one or two servings or two at least two cups of that and then some sort of um I'm trying to think like this [clears throat] week we made I made sweet potato burgers. So I do a homemade bun and then I did a lentil salad and braised cabbage with apples um and an energy protein bite that's made out of peanut butter, some protein powder, almond flour, flax seed. So, we make pretty much everything, but I'm hitting between 30 and 60 grams of protein per meal. >> Okay. And you had had said that you don't eat animal proteins and it's because it affects your um your blood lipid levels and they start to get a little little haywire. >> So, I have lipoprotein A. I'm not sure if you're familiar with it. So, it's a genetic cholesterol that our liver makes that then contributes to arterial plaque formation. So I had a crowded so even though I've been healthy for most of my life um my crowded ultrasound has my arterial age at 67. >> Okay. >> So because of that I went to see a preventative cardiologist who then recommended a vegan diet to try and mitigate the risks that can come potentially with having >> higher cholesterol that is um not genetic. We're going to say that. And then he's got me on some supplements and I do a repeat karate. I did it two years ago. I have a repeat karate that I have to do this fall to then see if it's either halted or potentially reversed. Got it. >> Some of the supplements I'm on. So, if that makes sense. So, I started tracking like I wasn't food tracking until I went vegan with my husband because I wanted to make sure we were hitting all of our nutrition targets. >> So, we use Chronometer. I don't [clears throat] know if you know that app. So, it's very specific. It'll break down fiber. It breaks down all your your um amino acids. So, you know, like we're out of the park for pretty much everything. So, I make sure we're getting all the nutrition with what we're eating. >> Okay, that's great. And then since switching to the diet, I know you haven't checked your karate to see if there's any changes or improvements. Have you noticed any changes in uh energy, vitality, strength, sleep, or is it all You sound like you've planned it pretty well. Um, so I'm curious to see if there's any any changes uh positive or negative. Um, initially I felt like I had more energy. I don't feel like the energy has been, you know, this is now going on a few years. I think the energy changes that I've had have been more related to thyroid >> because [clears throat] when they started me on the thyroid meds, things felt better. And then when things started to go off again and when they bumped my thyroid meds again recently, I think it was April or May, um, I told her like I was starting to feel tired. I would I do not get tired in the afternoons. I was starting to feel tired in the afternoons. I was freezing like my hands and my feet were cold all the time. >> Y >> um [clears throat] it just seemed like you know constipation was worse. Like all these different things that I felt like were more >> thyroid driven. So I don't think it's dietary related if that makes sense. >> Yeah, it does. And are you supplementing with uh like essential amino acids, creatine, uh your your maybe your B vitamins, some of the things that sometimes people can become deficient in even with a well planned vegan diet. >> Yeah, I get um I get regular blood work, so all that's good. But I do do uh B12, I do a super B complex, I do vitamin D, I do um omega-3s, I do 10 grams of creatine daily. >> Awesome. Um, so I think all those bases are covered. >> Yes, they are. That's that's great. Um, and then just a kind of a personal question. Are you enjoying this process? Uh, because there's so it sounds like you're you're managing so many different things and you're counting so many things and I want to make sure it's not an additional stress on you. >> Um, I like the meal planning. I actually don't mind the tracking. Like that's not a big deal. Um, the supplements, I feel like we have it down. Um, I've worked out since I was 13 in some capacity. So, the fitness thing isn't something that's going anywhere. Um, like that's part of my life. I think if anything, if >> that's the one thing I would never want anybody to take away from me, if that makes sense. It does. >> I mean, I know you guys are all along those lines. So, um, [clears throat] you know, kind of nutty like really like going to the gym every day, even if it is just stretching or or doing something like that. >> Good. So, the the [clears throat] one objective metric that I would pay closest attention to only because it's most strongly correlated with what you're most interested in, which is uh bone density >> and blood glucose, >> uh would be strength. So, it's it's harder to be objective with u muscle gains. uh you can do desk dexa scans, but sometimes you can be more hydrated, less hydrated, and simple muscle mass isn't uh as as great of a predictor for those things as actual strength. So that's the objective we want to pay closest attention to. Like if you're getting stronger, you're probably doing a lot of things right. And if that continues on, bone density moves in that same direction. And as you get stronger, you gain muscle, which is great uh for blood glucose. one of the best ways to >> and or maintaining her strength while she's in some sort of a cut in a diet because one of the things you've done really good too is been able to reverse diet and get your calories up to a very healthy place. >> Yep. >> So, the one of the things I hear too is you know wanting to sounds like reduce a little bit of body fat or you know inches around the waist or whatever. So, being able to reduce calories and be able to maintain maintain strength would actually be a really good win for us. >> Yeah. Now, maps aesthetic is a lot of volume. Even with the reduction, >> I like I like maps 15 for you like going to the gym every day. You said it already. I I would put you on a map. >> Yeah, I go every day. >> Well, and I figured you guys were probably going to put me on a 15. [laughter] >> So, the only reason I did Maps aic is because I bought your your bundle and I already I had already done Matt's performance and then I did Matt's >> I mean, you did the right thing with it, by the way. You did incredible. Obviously, you listen to the podcast, we could [clears throat] tell because of how you modified it on your own uh without any coaching from us is great. >> But just to kind of break it down for you, so you know, I'm trying to recall maps aesthetics is typically like three exercises per large body part. Even if you cut down the sets to three, you're doing nine sets three days a week per body part, which is still high volume. Or even uh you know, six three times a week would be high volume uh per body part um for most people. So, so that's even with the reduction in volume. Now, going uh to maps 15, what you'll probably notice with no other changes, so no other changes in diet, no other changes anything else, what you'll probably notice is by the second week, strength increases. And if that happens, we're on the right track. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's probably what's going to happen. >> And I think I guess I was, you know, I really looked forward to anabolic and then to not see any strength gains over that. I was kind of surprised cuz I >> again, I was reverse dieting. and I was eating the 3,00 to 3200 calories and I just I had never done full body days. That was my first program doing um like everything. >> Yeah. >> I've always done some sort of split or something a little bit different. >> Um so >> so I'm not quite sure why unless that's more that hormonal piece and >> I would guess going through the thyroid thing change of time and also going through that a second time. Well, let me ask you the difference between FA what did what was the difference for you between phase one and let's say phase three because they're very different. Did you notice any changes between the two? >> Strength. >> Yeah. Either strength or energy. Uh phase three is much more volume than phase one. So I just out of curiosity. >> Um I don't remember. Okay. >> This was back in like March or April. I maybe may I'm trying to remember exactly because I'm on phase three of anabolic right now. >> Yep. >> But now with the volume I'm doing like the full workout I cut into two. So like there's the three workouts a week. I'm doing like half of a workout and then the next day I'll do a half workout then I take a day off. You get what I mean? But I don't remember. So with anabolic I know my least favorite is probably the 5x5s. M >> um I don't know if that's part of anabolic or just in general because it's not a way that I was accustomed to training before you guys. >> So I really have to wrap my head around um being safe I guess as I do it or feeling comfortable so that I don't get hurt and always that's kind of in the back of the mind. So like the one program maybe it was anabolic instead of doing a a barbell back squat I just modified it to a box squat. >> That's fine >> because then I felt like I had enough control where if I don't I would just sit down. It's not a big deal. >> Perfectly fine. Um I I'd like to send you Mass 15 and I'd like to see how you respond to that and just follow it as it's laid out. Um and I like I said, if if by week two or three you're getting stronger, we're moving in the right direction. >> And and a good goal would be so based off your like kind of annual goal since you asked that setting up would be to not manipulate diet yet. Stick with way you're eating, just change the program. If all things go well and we start to see strength and then you still feel like you want to see some body composition change, you're in a healthy enough calories that we could just put you in a calorie reduction for a little while >> while staying on MAPS 15. >> Um, and then remember when we do something like that, really the goal is just to maintain strength. If we maintain strength in a calorie deficit, that's a huge win. I wouldn't expect strength gains to continue to progress while I'm also putting you in a deficit. Which is why also I think keeping the diet where it is now gets reap some benefits from added strength if the programming was the right program for you. And then if and only then if you start to and maybe you'll see body composition change just from that which I wouldn't manipulate calories but if let's say we've continued through mass 15 you did build some strength but you still have that I wish I had a couple I want to inch off my waist still or I wish I was a little bit leaner then I'd put you in a calorie deficit with the goal of trying to maintain strength. Mhm. >> Then what calories should I be keeping at this point? >> I think stay where you're at. >> The 2,700 where you're at right now is what you're doing. I love I love too how you're undulating it. I know now you'll be in the gym every day. >> Uh and so you know you can but undulating the way you are is perfectly fine. Um >> yeah. So you can kind of >> Yeah. >> A little more. So aim for 25 to 2700. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yep. And then if so I keep going. At what point during the strength gains would I decide to then go on a cut? Like how much would I would I run the whole program and then the second [clears throat] time I run? >> Yeah. Run the whole run the whole program eating. In fact, if appetite increases and strength increases during the program, I actually might bump your calories again. >> So if Yeah. And and and play the reverse diet. So, if you're seeing strength gains and appetite, you feel increase, feed that. Um, that's what And then at the end of the program, I'd say then let's go into a cut cuz then we're cutting from an even higher place, which would be even more advantageous. >> So, then what would I cut to? >> If you're if you're averaging 2600 calories, 2200 calories would be a sufficient cut. >> Yeah. >> For how long? For a whole program, for a month? >> Yeah, I think a whole program would work just fine. These are great questions, by the way, Julie. I think I can. Yeah, you're Yeah, this is great. So, yeah, I would go a whole a whole cycle of mass 15 >> and then follow a different maps 15 if it worked and you got stronger. We have a lot of mass 15 uh versions. So, we have like maps 15 muscle mommy and and strong and then follow it again in a cut if everything worked well and you got stronger. >> Okay. >> Where that would look different is where that would look different is if you actually reverse diet during this process right now. So, if we see strength in in appetite increase and I get you back up to say 29 3,000 calories, then you could pull all the way down to say 25 to 500 calorie deficit and you're eating more and we'll see some of those results. So, really [clears throat] aiming for that 300 to 500 calorie deficit after we've gone through 15 trying to build strength and trying to reverse diet. >> Are you, by the way, Julie, are you are you wearing a a CGM for the glucose? >> No, I had a my provider gave me a CGM. Uh, I had two. So, I did it twice. Uh, I didn't really learn that much. >> Okay. >> Um, it just seems to be the fasting that's primarily the the biggest piece is where I'm having issues. >> Uh, it would be also like if I bananas or oranges, >> okay? >> Or if I don't move after lunch. So, that's why I try and do a little bit of some activity for 5 to 10 minutes after lunch. cuz then I would see my numbers start to go up to like 160 uh instead of if I move right away, it's like 120. >> Okay. >> Was where I would peek at and maybe 130 and then it would go back down. >> Okay. >> Um I'm not quite sure cuz I'm on a super low dose GLP. I don't know if they're going to titrate it up if they want to see like how long am I going to be with this. I don't know if that's going to influence my appetite. um >> a micro dose might in in a way that's kind of imperceptible. Uh but I I would be very careful with someone like you who is trying to improve bone density to go at a high dose >> of a GLP. >> Well, and that's not the goal. Like I told you, I tried to I mean I put it off for a year and now it's just kind of like nothing's working. Um, and I don't know how to fix that piece and just not wanting to trip to being diabetic as I >> try and get all this hormone stuff in under control. >> Look into bourberine if you are if you have >> I'm already on bourberine. >> How's that helping? Is that helped anything? >> Okay. All right. Let's see what happens with the strength training. What I want to do, Julie, is I want you all back on in 30. >> I was just going to I was just going to ask her. Julie, are you familiar with our concier program? >> Um, I've heard you guys talk about it. It's just um we're in the process of buying a house and then >> um some of the medical stuff that I've had going on lately has uh escalated the bills a little bit. So, the concierge is >> it's not good right now. >> No worries. >> But it would be something I would be interested. >> Yeah. No, I was just listening to you. I'm like, you're such a good candidate for this. You come with so many great questions. Like, you're the type of person who I think we don't always talk to people about it. Uh because I think most people need a lot more detailed coaching and more handholding. um you're so thorough, detailed that, you know, checking in once a month with the coach who's just kind of overseeing what you're doing and making those tweaks, uh you're just a great candidate for >> now. Are you Yeah. Are you able to progressively overload? Like I know you're a little bit nervous about like the 5x5 protocol and like adding weight. Is adding weight something you were able to kind of like gradually progressively do or is that something still you're a little nervous about? >> Um it kind of depends on the day. So, um, so like for by 5x5s, the highest I can get is a 45 plate on each side for the box squat. >> That's great. >> That's That's really good. >> I was just like, "Okay, that's really good." >> Yeah. >> No, I mean, I guess cuz I've worked out for so long and um it depends. Like during Map Strong, I was doing overhead press or clean and press. I have to remember because this was a while ago with 60. And like today I did an aesthetic or because I'm doing the you do that and then you pair it with the rear delt. Yeah. >> I just did 30s this morning or just a 30 overhead press regular because I was like And part of it too it's it's 5:00 a.m. >> Um [laughter] I don't know if I ramp it up early. >> But like even working out at 7:30 compared to 5 is completely different. >> Totally. You just Yeah, you just said something that gives a little more context to this conversation too. Dude, I think the reason why Justin was asking cuz he's just curious to like are you like barely putting any weight on you're pretty strong already too. >> So that's good weight. Uh you know squatting 135 is very good weight uh for any female client of mine. And so that's also something to consider too is uh not I don't necessarily think that you're at peak strength but you've already got a lot of those beginner gains that you know people who just get started. So seeing continued increase like expecting you're just going to keep seeing increase on the on a squat like that. I mean us being able to maintain 135 is a is a very very huge win too. >> Well and I guess cuz it's not full range then I I kind of discredit it a little bit. >> That's still true. That's still good. >> So when I do [laughter] >> that's still good. >> If I'm having a good regular day and I'm doing like an 8 to 12 rep range, it would be 35 on each side if I'm having a good day. >> That's still 25 on each side is good. >> Yeah, Julie, that's good weight. That's really good. Yeah. Yeah. 130 lb. >> Yes, you're doing you're getting after it. >> I had no idea you were lifting that. I would I would have guessed just a lower just based off of this conversation. Uh that's that's good weight. That's you're strong. >> Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to have you back on in 30 days if that's okay. I want to see how you do in four weeks on maps 15. >> Okay. >> All right. And then based off pushed a little bit cuz my work schedule, but >> that's fine. More time is better for us. >> Yeah. 30 to 45 days, something like that, whatever. But we'll have you back on. Check back in and make any changes if we need to. >> Mhm. >> Okay. I appreciate it. >> You got it. We'll see you then. Thank you. >> All right. Thanks so much, guys. Keep doing what you do. >> Thanks. Bye. Bye. >> That was good. Thorough. And I'll tell you what, for people listening right now, >> uh these are fun clients. Yeah. >> Why is it fun? >> Because the answer isn't so obvious. Although I do feel the reduction of volume is going to give her the strength that she's gains. >> Uh because she's got so many things covered. This is one of those clients where it's like let's test this and see what happens because it's a little bit more uh of a challenge. >> Well, we've I mean we've experienced this personally. We experienced those clients a lot of clients too is like uh and I think this just high the fact that she's as strong as she is also kind of points to this too in my opinion. She's already kind of reaching kind of so her volume is is higher than what you would think a 130 lb girl her age would be doing because she's actually probably moving some good weight. So, I bet mass 15, similar to how we all experience even mass 15 for ourselves, like, "Oh my god, I got stronger in mass 15." Well, yeah, because at at this point when you've been lifting that long and you've already reaped a lot of the benefits, just adding more volume is uh the opposite of what you probably need to do. And so, >> yeah, I think she's going to see great benefits from that. >> Our next caller is Dave from Georgia. >> What's up, Dave? >> How you doing, Dave? >> What's happening? >> Hey, how's it going, guys? >> Good, man. How can we help you? Man, you know, I wish I could remember exactly what I typed in as my question request when I made it, [laughter] but uh I I pretty much know the gist of it. Can I give you a little bit of background? >> Yeah, wing it. >> Um, so I'm 50. I just turned 50 this past May and I grew up an athlete and then when I got to high school, started down the wrong path with some drugs and alcohol and kind of went a different direction with it. Uh, things got out of control. I got cleaned up and finished college uh when I was 22. Got back in shape. Uh everything was going really well. Some life things happened, life events. Kind of went back down that wrong road and started drinking quite a bit again. Uh got married, had four kids, and uh in 2019, I woke up uh weighing 350 lbs and was really unhappy, depressed, uh anxiety through the roof, just not being the husband, father, and human I wanted to be and that I knew that I could be. um had had some help with some friends and uh found a a gym local gym on Facebook that was you know 20 first 20 men to respond kind of get a free shot to uh interview and go for a weight loss challenge. Uh I entered that just figured I might as well give it a shot. I've tried everything else and for some reason some of the folks that I met at this gym uh really kind of clicked with me and uh everything kind of went from there. Um I wound up losing 100 pounds over the next three years. Um, and after that kind of got into a position where my friend who ran the gym, who he became my friend, he ran the gym, he left the gym and we're now workout buddies, so we work out three, four times a week, strength training. Um, I recently listening to your podcast over the last couple of years, kind of thinking about some different things. Got a DEXA scan done. Um, [clears throat] I'm in I'm in a pretty good place, guys. I really am. I'm happy with myself for for the first time in a really long time. uh coach my son in football, coach my son in baseball, uh my daughter plays softball for high school. And so I'm kind of where I need to be as a husband and a father again. Uh good employee, successful at work, just happy with who I am. But it's time for me, I think, to take it to the next level. So what I've been thinking about were uh items that you talk about like your V2 max, uh things of that nature. Spoke to spoke about that with the guy who did the DEXA scan. kind of opened my eyes to a few different things and visceral fat and how I get rid of that kind of stuff. And in a in a place right now where I'm I'm 6' tall, 255 pounds, body fat was 26%. Um muscle mass is, you know, I think you said top 80 top 85, top 90% men my age. So again, in a in a good spot, but really want to take it to the next level. And I hate cardio. I love li lifting weights. I love being strong. I've always been a bigger guy. um have kind of toyed with the idea of, you know, quote unquote becoming a runner. Uh just not for me. And uh really just wanted to kind of hear what you guys had to say about maybe some suggestions. I've listened to the reverse dieting part and not really quite have my my head wrapped around that just yet. And I I think I know the answers, guys, to be clear, like in terms of, you know, dialing in my diet, being more strict, or at least more making a concerted effort towards my diet and getting some more cardio worked in. But I love the way that you guys really attack issues when callers bring them up and was just really excited to get on the show and hear what you guys might have to say and maybe inject a little bit more life into my current uh plan and maybe give me a little bit more life to take a couple couple steps forward. >> Yeah, thanks Dave. Thanks for calling in, man. >> Um I like I like that your goal is to increase your V2 max. I like that a lot uh because it's a performance goal. >> Performance goals tend to be better overall than aesthetic goals. uh performance goals can contribute to better aesthetics, but often times when we chase aesthetics, we sacrifice things like performance and and sometimes health. So, I like that you said that. I heard that you don't like to run and you don't like to do cardio. I feel you. Uh but an easy way to increase your V2 max would be to do some form of activity that gets you to breathe hard, >> but do it do something you enjoy doing, like play something. Pickle ball. >> Yeah. What do you got? [laughter] >> I'm a big pickle ball fan, bro. Now, >> yeah. If you haven't done it, >> I did I tried pickle ball this summer and I I didn't mind it. I'll put it that way. [laughter] >> I mean, that would be the that would be the key right there. You like lifting weights, >> something fun would help. >> You got a workout partner. Uh do something that involves um a little community uh friendship >> or your kids >> or your kids. So, you're not counting, you know, I'm doing 30 minutes of this exercise. You're just going out and you're just moving your body. You're more likely to be consistent. You're more likely to to get better results doing that. you're more likely to forget that you're working out when you're doing that. That'd be it, man. Once a week. >> Once a week, something that gets you to move that you enjoy uh with people that you enjoy being around would be the only thing I would say you could add. >> You could also there's there's there's there's ways to improve this too in in in shorter bouts that are paired with your I I loved um post this is I used this a lot when I was competing. Um and it also had the benefits on the V2 max. also have benefits on uh leaning out, losing body fat. Post-workout, I would get uh do 12 minutes of hit cardio. >> And what that looked like is uh I'd pick, you know, stair master, elliptical, treadmill, whatever. And for literally 15 to 20 seconds, I get after it my and let my and my heart rate goes as as basically as hard as I can. You work up to that. So don't go full on sprinting. I like things like an elliptical or a stairmaster to start with so you don't pull a muscle trying to do something crazy or a bike. Uh but you go after it as hard as you can for 15 seconds and then allow that heart rate to come all the way back down. It'll probably take you when you first start doing this a minute to two minutes maybe even a little bit longer to feel your heart rate come all the way back down and then do it again. and you only just do 12 minute 12-minute blocks of that couple times a week paired with what S's doing some play on the weekend with your kids or something like pickle ball or something you like doing and you'll really improve that. Yeah, you you'll make you'll make big headway uh on that V2 max by doing that. And then the other thing I would it sounds like you've already kind of aware of it like tightening up the diet uh would be and you I know if you've listened to the show you've probably heard us >> the easiest thing man is I just someone like you I just we're just going to track protein and my first rule to you is you hit that you eat that first and always do that first and that seems to take care of a lot of the things. Uh, and then if there's anything egregious that you're aware of that you do, like if you're uh, you know, couple times a week you pound the ice cream late at night or there's, you know, a treat that you always do. That's mine. That's why I call that one out. Uh, so whatever. If there's something major and egregious, then probably tapering off of that, but then really just focusing on the protein, I think, takes care of a lot of the problems. >> Yeah. I I love what you guys said about the aesthetics because I think I'm not I'm not a psychiatrist, but I kind of feel like that might be what got me into a little bit of a lull in my training is, you know, going from 350 lbs to 250 lbs was a huge improvement, right? and just being miserable with, you know, how I felt and how I looked and then getting to a place where, man, I I really like the way I look and and and being 50, I'm assuming, you know, I think this is the second part of the question that I had originally sent in. The elasticity, right? Like, so I've lost a ton of weight and I've got kind of loose skin going on that I don't know how to get rid of. I I don't know if, you know, eventually surgery is the only option or if there's other ways to kind of tighten that up. Yeah, like again looking in the mirror, I went from 350 to 250 and I feel great about myself and love what I see in the mirror. Well, then over the next year to two years of kind of seeing that same thing. It's kind of put me back and well now I'm not so happy with what I see and I and I lose sight of where I came from and what I've gotten to and I've I've kind of lost sight of that and I look at I just I want I want to take it to the next step. But you're right, like for me, the aesthetic part is really what gets me in trouble because I start to get, you know, depressed or I I don't really like the way that I look again. And but but the aesthetic part isn't it's it's what I focus on, but it's not what motivates me. I don't know if that makes sense or not. I what I I what we currently do is we do a push pull legs uh method at the gym. So we'll have a push day, a pull day, and then a leg day. And then the you know the fourth day is some kind of some kind of fill in whether it's just a deadlift day or you know something like that. But I I've I liked what I heard recently with the uh upper lower breakdown that you guys do. So just wondering if you guys would mix up what I'm doing strength training wise. >> I would I would love to give that to you. I think I think uh if you haven't followed one of our programs, this also could be a really nice thing for you to we all tend to do this when we create our own programs including us, okay, with all of our experience is you kind of get in this lull of doing the same kind of things all the time. And one of the best things to kind of spark change and and strength and and progress is just simply following a routine that you didn't write or didn't create. And so I think the uh upper lower split would be great for you. >> Yeah. or uh I mean because you brought up V2 max as your goal like either either a performance or strong has like a conditioning element to it which again maybe programming it in there would help mentally uh you be able to tackle you know some of that conditioning and kind of get into it. Uh but but really just shaking it up and doing something completely different a lot of times uh will help the psyche. >> I I love that Justin. If if if what I said doesn't resonate with you where you're like, I'm not going to go get on that thing 12 minutes after my workouts and I don't want to play pickle ball, uh but I'll follow a program, then I would lean towards Justin. But if what I said about just, you know, make it a habit a couple times out of the week to do the 12 minutes a hit afterwards and then what S said, you know, pick a day up with the kids of doing physical activity or play pickle ball once. If that resonates with you, then I think you could do an upper lower split with that paired with it would do really well. >> If you know yourself and you're like, I'm probably not going to do that [ __ ] then I would take Justin's advice and just follow like a performance because it's built into that. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, man, guys, again, I really appreciate you having me on the show. I love listening to you. It's It's been It's been really good for me, especially over the last year to kind of get back moving in the right direction. So, love your messages, love when you share, and just love love love everything about it. So, thank you for helping me be a part of it. >> Dave, let us let us send you one of those programs. Uh, of the two, what upper, lower, or performance, which one resonates more with what you're where you want to go? >> Well, I think based off of what you were talking about, I think that throwing in a weekly day of pickle ball and or jumping on that stairmaster elliptical for 10 to 15 minutes after a workout, I think I can do that. Okay. In the past. Cool. So, let's We'll send you upper. We'll send you upper or lower then. >> Yeah. We'll send you up or lower. Follow that. Add that. And then, uh, go kiss that wife for sticking by you that whole time. >> Yeah. Hey, she just got me a Whoop, too, for my birthday. So, that's where this whole V2 max thing is coming into play because now I get to see every day with how I'm tracking and and I need to make some changes. Nice. Awesome. >> All right, bro. Thanks. Thanks, Dave. >> Hey, thanks, guys. Take care. >> You got it. You know, [clears throat] I uh I I think if more if more people um just went to have fun >> and played, you really wouldn't have to worry so much about >> Yeah. And the sustainability in that is so much higher. >> You just you're there to see your [laughter] friends. You're hanging out. You're having a good time. And before you know it, you did it for an hour. >> You don't even realize the work you put in. >> That's right. That's right. >> Our next caller is Alyssa from Michigan. >> Hey, welcome back. >> How you doing, Alyssa? Alyssa, >> how you doing? >> How you doing? I'm good. >> Give us an update. What's happening? Okay, so previously you guys told me to focus strictly on strength. Since then, I've been following Maps 15 powerlift and have improved. >> I want to preface that I was in Italy for about a month. So my training and eating were basically just pasta and no training, just walking, >> which is even more impressive that we saw gains, which is great. [laughter] >> Yeah, I know. Um, as of July 19th, my one rep maxes are for bench 160, deadlift 225, and squat 205. >> Why? nice. >> Um, I'm confident I was in a bit of a surplus during that time and my body probably needed the rest. So, I guess it kind of makes sense. I don't know. >> Um, >> but I'm extremely excited to keep following this program as I did. And this past week, I redid these one rep maxes. And currently for bench, they're 165, deadlift 225, and squat or deadlift 255, and squat 225. I'm eating about 25 to 3,000 calories. 2500 to 3,000, sorry. a day and maintaining 10,000 steps a day. I do still run a little bit, but it's down to like below 10 miles a week. You And when I first started it was like 25 miles a week. So, I'm so happy. You guys changed my life. >> You feel better, don't you? >> Hey, by the way, uh to see increases in all three main lifts is amazing. Typically, I'm like when I'm training somebody, I'm like we trying to focus on just one of those lifts going up to see across the board is awesome. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and And it says there you feel amazing. You feel a lot better, huh? >> I do. Yeah. I like >> being able to eat food and not thinking about it constantly because that's kind of how I was in the beginning. I also started pursuing a little bit of personal training on the side. Um I'm halfway through the ISSA program. >> I don't know. I I I feel like I got the bug. Like I couldn't stop thinking about it. >> It's been great so far. I'm so excited to read about it. And >> that's exciting. >> You've changed my life. Alyssa, what's your main job? What do you do for what what's your main How do you get your your How do you pay your bills? >> Well, I'm 21, so I don't really pay bills, but I'm studying construction management. I'm going to graduate in December, and I'm currently an intern at a construction company as a project engineer. >> Okay, good. >> Part time. So, I want to my hours, >> but you like fitness. >> Yeah, I do. >> All right. Listen, keep keep us in mind. We love hiring new trainers and >> I know. I was looking at your website and I was kind of like, "Oh, I could film a video of myself." >> I like filming videos. >> Well, possibility. >> Stay the course. I think you're on the perfect routine. I think the Mass 15 uh style workouts are great. >> Keep doing it. I think in combination with a little bit of running, you're doing, diet, and everything. I think you're doing phenomenal. And then keep studying. And if you love fitness and you want to be a trainer, >> this is one of the best places to work. If you're a huge fan of the show and you know our culture, >> those are the kind of people we like to hire. >> Have you been Have you found the uh trainer podcast we have with our trainers? >> No, but I know it's called Elite Training. >> Yeah, Elite Trainer Podcast on YouTube and you'll hear our coaches uh talking all about personal training. So, uh if you're into it and you're liking it, you'll like that content, too. So, listen, check that out. >> And then I >> I'm definitely going to dive into that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. >> I love it. It's been amazing. >> Awesome. >> I'm excited for you. >> Yeah. So, which Mass 15 did we give you to do? Was it mass 15 powerlift? Do you remember? >> It was powerlift. >> All right. I'm gonna Are you You're almost done with it, aren't you? >> Yeah. >> All right. I'll send you another one. Let's go. 15. Uh, muscle mommy. >> Oh, yeah. >> And so, you got you got another 15 to follow. You got it. And then you just keep in touch with us. Okay. >> I will. I Hey, you never know. >> Exactly. >> I hope I catch a video from you soon. >> I do, too. >> All right. All right. >> All right. Alissa, >> thank you for everything. My dad says hi, by the way. >> Okay. Awesome. I said hi. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. [laughter] >> Great. Great job. >> Great day. >> Thank you, Elissa. >> Uh, great news. >> Yeah, >> great news. Yeah, she was >> great. >> She was running a lot. She was doing a lot of training. She was walking a lot and her calories are low. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And she was worried about hormones. If I if I recall, maybe I'm wrong, but if I recall, she had issues with being regular with her period. Maybe. >> I don't remember. >> I don't know if that was part of her story, but there was there was like she was like, "What's going on? Why do I feel this And it was just she was just over. >> I mean uh 90-day check-in. 30 days of that was traveling, not working out and eating. >> So it's really 60 days. >> So 60 days uh of just following M 15 to the way too already a very strong person. >> So consistently lifting already strong. >> See a increase across all three major lifts. Huge. Yeah. Huge win. >> Our next caller is Amber from Michigan. Hi Amber. How you doing Amber? >> Hi guys. >> How you doing? >> Good. How can we help you? >> Oh my gosh, this is crazy. I've been listening to you guys for like nine years, so >> Wow. >> Oh man, >> you guys have been through a lot with me. [laughter] >> Thank you. Jeez, that's awesome. We made it. >> Yeah. Um, so basically I'm just feeling really frustrated because I have been working out for so long. Um, I started getting your guys' programs probably about 7 years ago. Um, so I just don't feel like I look like all the effort that I put in. [laughter] For some context, I right now I own a cleaning business for 6 years now. So I clean two to three houses a day. Um, with it being summer here in Michigan, I'm playing beach volleyball three to four times a week. Um, and I have a hard time even keeping up with like maps 15. So, I go back and forth on like, am I doing too much? Am I not doing enough? Am I eating too much? Or am I not eating enough? And I put in all this effort, but feel like I don't look like I should with all the effort I put in. >> All right, good question. So, I'm going to read through some of the stuff in your email if that's okay. >> Yeah, sure. >> Okay, so you're Okay, you mentioned you're clean to two, three houses a day, plus playing beach volleyball three to four days a week. I'm assuming you're out there for a couple hours when you do that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And you got two teenage daughters. >> Oh, yeah. [laughter] >> And it says your life is very full and demanding. >> Uh-huh. >> And And now it it says on >> a business. >> And I want to correct I don't know if this is accurate if we got the right email. It says you're 47. >> 37. >> 37. I was going to say I'm like, you don't look 47. Holy cow. >> I hope not. [laughter] >> So, first off, you do look like you work out. Uh, but you're doing a lot, Amber. You're doing a lot. So cleaning houses is if you to let me ask you a question. If you took one of your friends that works an office job >> to work with you for one day, [laughter] >> they die. >> How how do you feel? >> So what you're doing is akin to a workout. That's your job. >> Then you're playing volleyball three to four days a week. That's intense. >> Yeah. >> So you're you're redlinining and I don't even I haven't even asked you about your sleep, which uh I'd actually Let me ask you that. How is your sleep? How consistent is it? How many hours a night you getting? Um, it's typically pretty good. Seven or eight hours. >> Okay. I also I want to take a guess at diet stuff because this is just just taking a shot in the dark. This is what happens sometimes when somebody's got a lot like this and they feel like they do put a lot of work and effort in is they are eating really clean or really low calorie and then they have these off the rails and then they really clean really the off the rails and inconsistencies with diet. How would you rate your diet? Actually, I don't go off the rails really cuz I enjoy eating healthy and eating clean just cuz I like to feel good and being with my work like I can't go to work feeling like [ __ ] So, I really take pride in eating healthy and I enjoy eating healthy. So, my, you know, the rule 8020. Mine's more like 9010. It's not super strict. Like, if I want something, I'll take a couple bites. That's really all I need is a couple bites and I'm good. So, I don't really go off the rails. >> Okay, good. That's good. That's really good. How about tracking like protein? Do you are are you aware of what you're consuming? >> So tracking is not really good for me. Um I actually had eating disorders for like 15 years and you guys helped me get through that. So thank you. Um but I did try to track um and I know that I get plenty of protein. Like I can literally snack on chicken breast so it's not an issue. Um but tracking is just not good for me. Would you say you because of your past you have a tendency then to maybe eat on the lower calorie side or are you would you think you eat a good a good amount of calories? >> Um I don't restrict myself like I eat when I'm hungry. So it's just hard to know if it's enough. >> Okay. >> Or too much. >> Okay. Okay. But we uh but you're eating high protein. You're not restricting. >> Yeah. >> You're getting decent sleep. Uh you're just really active. >> You're really really active. >> Might have to just [clears throat] Yeah. bring it down a little bit more. >> Yeah. So, and I It sounds like your beach volleyball with your friends is something you really enjoy doing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I wouldn't want to cut that down. Your your work we're not going to cut down cuz that's your job. >> Yeah. >> Even maps 15 is a lot of volume when you add it to all of that stuff >> on a consistent basis be a lot. >> I recently a couple weeks ago switched to anabolic. I finished 15. Um, and I'm not doing the trigger shot sessions because I just usually don't have the energy to do it. I'm dead. Um, and I'm fitting in one full body a day, which >> it's the one day off I get a week because in summer it's crazy. Like even Saturdays I'm working right now cuz I >> have Airbnbs and stuff. But >> Okay. And so you're doing one full body workout a week. >> Yeah. >> How's that feel? >> It's been okay so far. I just >> that's probably what we put you I know that's there's two options right there. Yeah. Two options I would recommend. Either one full body workout a week, one exercise per body part, three sets each. >> Yeah. >> Or or max 15 two or three days a week. That's it. So you max 15 but like two days a week or three days a week and that's it. >> Yeah. >> And base it off of how you feel. You don't need a ton of strength training. You really don't. Uh especially when you're doing so much activity >> just for muscle preservation. Amber, can you can you recall for me uh what yesterday's full day of eating was? Like just run me through breakfast, lunch, dinner, or what you ate? >> Sure, I would love to. Uh so for breakfast, I'm usually eating Dave's Killer Bread, two slices, three eggs, and two sausage links. And then being on the go for work, I'm usually eating a banana RX bar, um a pack of nuts, and then I'll get home around two or three, eat a meal, which is usually like a chicken vegetable and maybe some quinoa. Then I have dinner, which is also some kind of form of chicken and carb and veggie. And then when I get home from volleyball, which is usually like 9 or 10:00 at night, I'm eating like a yogurt cup with some stuff in it. >> Okay. >> You calculating that out? Yeah, I'm just doing it in my head real quick. And it's not it's it's I thought it would be lower. It's not bad. No. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. See, that's where I'm struggling. Like I feel like it's a decent amount, but >> you're just Honey, you're just you're literally redlining. You're redlining. >> Yeah. >> So, let me put it this way. Three to four days a week >> for just a mom who works [snorts] a desk job of beach volleyball cuz that's very active. You're playing with friends. You're competitive. >> That's a lot by itself. >> Yeah. Now you add on top of that your job which is activity. You're doing a ton. >> So you can't add that much strength training to your routine. Literally it would be it would be mass 15 maybe two a week. >> Mhm. >> Or like I said one full body workout, you know, one exercise per body part uh where you're doing kind of compound lifts and that's it. Those are kind of your two options. If you already have Maps 15, the way I would do it is because you got it laid out in front of you is you would do two workouts. So you'd follow the two in a row. Then the following week you'd move to the next two. Then the following week you'd move to the next two. And that's it. >> If you start to see strength gains and you feel good, we're moving in the right direction. >> Okay. >> That's your gauge. >> Do you think anabolic one day a week is okay? >> Maybe phase one and maybe phase two, phase three would probably be too much. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. But I I think you should try 15 two workouts a week. Yeah. >> And I think if you did that, you'll probably notice more energy and strength. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Again, let me again, let me just paint the context. You took a friend of yours who works a desk job who's same age as you and they followed you around and did your job for one day. They would be dead and sore after one day of work. >> Yeah. Not including take care of the kids. >> Not including the kids in the volleyball >> and my own house and all that. >> That's right. So So you're just you're just doing a lot. >> Just factor it all in. I know. >> You're just doing a lot a lot, hun. And I think adding a bunch adding strength training is just you're just overflowing with the amount of stress you're putting on on your body. So a little bit of strength training is going to go a long way for you. >> Yeah. Do do you know >> your body recover? >> I'm curious. Have you ever used it? I'm just curious on your like total steps. You probably do a ton of steps in a day. >> Oh, probably. But I don't have a way to track them. But >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's probably a good 20. >> That would be that would be my guess would be 20,000. Especially on volleyball days. Amber, I've trained uh people with similar like activity levels uh typically blue collar workers >> and the amount of volume that got them results was so shockingly low. >> Y >> and I had to keep scaling back. I remember when I first became a trainer and I would get these clients and I'd scale back, scale back, scale back, scale back and it was very minimal before they started to see any progress. And it was just because they were just moving all the time and they were so used to moving all the time that to them they're like, "Oh, I've just normal." >> This is just what I do and it was I had to scale it way down. So I >> that's also my my mental therapy go, you know, working out too. So >> I get it. >> I literally think Well, you do a lot of activity already. >> I don't think you need more. >> No, >> I know >> you might need I'm going to I'm going to, you know, forgive me for saying this. You might need some time to not do anything and kind of sit quietly, massage or something, >> which you probably don't ever do. >> Yeah, I don't got time for that. [laughter] >> Let's try MAP 15. Do two workouts a week. Uh by week two or three, you'll probably see some strength gains. >> Okay. >> All right. >> You want to try it? >> I would love to try it. >> All right. Let's do it. You want to get you want to get back on in 60 days so we can talk to you and see what happens. >> Oh, I would love that. We'll get you back up. >> Yeah. >> All right. Cool. >> You got it. And great congratulations on the success of your business. It sounds like you're doing well. >> Oh, thank you. Appreciate that. >> Bye. >> Yeah. And just just for people listening, >> oh my god. >> If the average person uh who works out two or three days a week went to play beach volleyball for two hours >> cleaning those houses and playing a week. Well, this this becomes uh exponentially tricky, too, because of a past eating disorder and what that could trigger to have her tracking weighing or doing those things, but I'm she rattled that off fast. I was trying to do the math really quick in my head, >> but I'm I'm I'm guesstimating in the low 2000s. So, it's not bad, but with her activity, that's why I'm asking. 20,000 steps. Okay, that house working out, volleyball, two kids, that is a lot. And even even more so in the context of moderate to low calories, someone like that at her, she's still young, someone that could be eating 3,000 plus calories easy. And I know that wasn't 3,000 plus calories. >> So uh you know that this is uh either either one, well both is probably what needs to happen. We probably need to see a reduction of volume training and have a slight bump in calories. hard to say guarantee that without getting a little bit more granular with the diet, but >> based on what she says, it doesn't sound like egregious to the average person, but she is not the average person. 20,000 steps or more a day. >> Yeah, it's crazy. >> Uh is a lot of activity. Um and and the physical demanding activity, cleaning a house. I I washed two cars uh this weekend and I was like my low back was sore for like two days to [laughter] I'm like, come on. And that's She's doing that every day. Yeah. every day that kind of bending over reaching. Yeah. Yeah. Just it's it's taxing even on somebody who considers themselves fit and strong. And so I I think she's I think she's undereating. >> Um and >> eating and overtraining. >> Yeah. And overtraining. And so I I think a little bit of both would be ideal. >> Yeah. Probably right. >> All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Shredded, ripped, defined singledigit body fat. >> Yes. >> You want to get there? Let's talk about it. M difficult and is [music] it worth it? That's a follow-up question. >> Yeah. First off, we got to say, okay, so singledigit body fat, obviously body fat percentages, uh that could be represented by one digit like 3%, 5%, 6%, 9%. That's uh ripped for men. For women, >> add 10%. >> Yeah. Don't Yeah, exactly. Go you go up about