ANOTHER VIEW OF IRAN - Henningsen & Ritter

So you've just come back from Iran to cover the funeral of the Ayatollah. Tell us something about what you learned about the resilience of the Iranian people in this relentless attack now. And do the Americans understand that? Do they have that message? Do they know what they're up against here? >> I can't speak for all Americans. I can speak for this American. >> Yeah. >> Um and being a I would say sticking out like a sore thumb in a sea of angry Iranians, but I was there with them on the streets of Tehran and in Mashhad uh in the millions. Um I didn't have any security guards protecting me or anything like that. I was received with great welcome, a lot of curiosity. Um A lot of people wanted to know what I was doing there. They wanted to know what I thought about X, Y, and Z and um and it was at times there were some challenging conversations when you're dealing with the general public. You don't know who's coming at you and it's a very emotionally charged situation like uh the the the funeral of the of the supreme leader. Um it's a really intense. Uh that's the best way I can describe it. An intense emotional thing and you know, I can say a lot about I mean, what Scott said about the religious component is absolutely essential to everything. And I really felt I can only give you my superficial interpretation in my limited time I spent. Although I can tell you I've been to the biggest anti-war protests in the world. I've been to Pope state visits. I have been to the biggest some of the biggest demonstrations in the world including some of the biggest ones in Iran previously, okay? So I I have a good um uh I would say reference for the scale. Nothing compared to what I had witnessed or experienced. The intensity, the the sheer uh it's like mourning and the passion, but and it and then you also have to pay attention to the symbolism. There were signs I started noticing uh everywhere and in Arabic, Farsi, and in in uh in English. And it said and it had a uh iconic picture of the leader's hand through the rubble. Uh this is according to his son Mojtaba Khamenei, his successor as a leader, that this was the image when they were pulling the the deceased leader out of the his his fist was clenched with his ring, iconic ring, and his tattered robe. And the slogan that was the theme of this week-long funeral was we must rise. And so and it was in English, too. They had it in English as well as Farsi and Arabic. That's very powerful if you think about it. So it wasn't just about looking past and mourning. It was about looking forward. So I started asking a lot of people. I said, "What do you mean we must rise? Who is we? And you know, what what must rise?" And and I got many different answers from that, which is interesting and this is so typical of of this this nation of poets, artists, and literary scholars. This I could say the same with Iraq and many other Middle Eastern countries as well, Asian countries. But they said that, you know, Iran as a nation must rise as an anti-colonial kind of post-colonial force, as a sovereign nation. Islam must rise. Shia Islam the message of Scott said the nation of Imam Hussein, the martyr Imam Hussein. That is a central theme that you cannot tease away from any of this. The religion, the politics, the history, the civilizational state, the [clears throat] morals, the ethics, all of that. It's one package. We've become so cynical in the West because we have separation of church and state and we just can't believe that anybody would write into their constitution that any government in 2026 would write into their constitution that we're going to defend uh liberate oppressed people wherever they are in the world. I mean, no matter what religion they are. It We would just We look on that with such cynicism, uh especially as Europeans and Americans. We just think, "Oh, they they can't be serious. They don't really care about the Palestinian people. They're just anti-Semitic." You know, this this is the way we rationalize this. And the fact of the matter is they do believe in that. And it's like a hive mind there. I I cannot describe I've never seen anything like it. It's like everyone is immediately connected on these issues. And Iranians specifically, and I've been all around the the West Asia. This is different there. Um and they they don't need to get like orders from central office. They know when it's time to step up. This is the difference between Iranians and everyone else in the region. Is it um as a nation I'm not talking about everyone in the region, but as a nation um there is a level of cohesion and solidarity that has really been amplified because of the US war. So, and another thing I realized after a couple of weeks there in this very intense time was that the Trump administration should take credit. They should pat themselves on the back. They did accomplish something. They thoroughly dismantled any opposition or Western-leaning liberal opposition in in Iran themselves through their actions. I mean, so thoroughly. In fact, if they're going to give a trophy out for that, I think Trump needs to get the FIFA director should give him a medal or give him some special award for eliminating the Iranian opposition. Uh him and Netanyahu have just done that uh incredibly. The resilience is real. It's a resilient society and it's a resilient civilization. And you know, the penny has to drop for Americans at some point. Well, how can this be a resilient civilization? 3,000 years? For I was reprimanded cuz I said 3,000 years and some Iranian said, "No, no, five. Five." See? But they must have some qualities and they qualities that have allowed them to be a resilient civilization. I mean, do we does that even come into our calculus in the West? I mean, they have they actually have inherent qualities as people, as a as a civilization, and then we need to understand what those are and and we have to respect those because those have, you know, thousands of years behind them. There is a collective sort of cohesion, a mindset and in the Islamic or the Shiite Islamic era, a certain some of these aspects and characteristics have been refined and into this kind of ethical and moral doctrine that you're seeing through the the revolutionary government post-1979. This is the government that the people had a referendum and chose for a specific reason. You you need to see that. But what we've been given in the West is the diametric opposite of propaganda and this is the most dehumanized, thoroughly mischaracterized population and country, one of the most anyway. I don't want to say the most cuz there's so many, but by the West and the US specifically, everything we've been told, especially their leader. I mean, we the Americans way he's portrayed by Fox and [clears throat] Jesse Waters of the world and all these sort of very crass US pundits is that because he has a turban and a beard, he must be a terror mastermind. Ergo, it's okay that we assassinate him and his family and it nothing could be further from the truth. He was a He was a scholar in Western literature as well as Persian literature, as well as everything else. I saw his book collection. I was in his home in Mashhad, very austere. It's like something where Gandhi would have lived, you know, the basics. But his some of his books were still there. And it's Victor Hugo. It's, you know, all of the sort of Western classics that we would have to to read to get a degree in English literature. He's fluent in all of this. You read his writings on his website. He's This is a very sensitive, thoughtful philosopher, religious leader. And he was the godfather of the country for two generations. And so, this is a great loss. And what is the justification for us killing him and his family? There's no There's not even an attempt at some kind of a rationale other than this was the head of the snake. And he is the terror mastermind. He's He's micromanaging Iran's proxies, terror proxies. This Disney-level caricaturing of the leader of the country um nothing positive can come from this. But this is like 24/7 anything related to Iran. I could say the same. We could do an analysis about Russia. Same thing. Um we can talk about how Hezbollah or the Palestinian resistance organizations. I mean, it's a whole 'nother conversation. But it's along the same lines. It's just you When you go on and you witness this you know, 40 million people took part in this funeral over a week. That's like almost half the population. In one way or another took part in this this thing. And it's unheard of. It's unheard of. You can't even get a million people out on the street for a state funeral in the West in any major country. It's just impossible. They came out 15 million in Tehran according to the Financial Times. Okay. >> [snorts] >> Um and I was I was amongst the middle of it. And I'm going to tell you there were a lot of red flags for vengeance. And And there's old ladies waving those flags as well as young people. And a lot of former liberals waving those flags. Okay? So, and the Americans will look at that, Joe, and say, "Oh, look at they're saying death to America. Oh my gosh, why do they mean us harm?" Well, what what did you expect? >> Children were killed in that airstrike. What did they do to the US? What did the supreme leader ever do to the US? What did Iran ever do to the US? Well, there's a it's a pretty extensive record of what the US has done to Iran, not vice versa. >> You killed their pope. And for what? And for who? And and you're shocked that people want to avenge the death of their leader? I mean, Americans are just living in such a incredible imaginary virtual space in their minds that they just can't bring them The government has never said death to America, by the way, the Iranian government. This is what you hear at mosques, some rallies, and so forth. Okay? And you see it on the streets. But do you blame them? Honestly, when they say death to America, do they do they mean the American regime? Okay? Clearly, they're not wanting to kill all Americans because nobody showed any aggression towards me at all, and I I I was literally interfacing with thousands of people myself, physically. I was alone some at some points with people mourning the death of their leader killed by my government. Okay? And I did not feel threatened at all at any time. Um but I was very aware that this is a very emotionally sensitive moment. But uh I I'm telling you we have underestimated these people, this country, this government, their political system. They have checks and balances. They have a sophisticated civil society. They have institutions. We have grossly underestimated every single aspect of Iran. That's the best thing I can say. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears of Americans. >> That was excellent. Thank you, Patrick. Yes. >> I just threw that First of all, thank you, Patrick. I mean, if you see green envy on my face, it's because I'm envious of the fact that you got to be in Iran and see that and I just I wish more Americans could go to Iran and and see what you what you witnessed. Um You know, one one of the things, too, you know, we In the here in the United States, we call ourselves a constitutional republic. But we've abandoned the institution of constitutionality. We function as a cult of personality, as a dictatorship, anything other than a constitutional republic. Iran is a constitutional republic. And one of the reasons why, you know, the the what what Patrick is talking about, it's it's 5,000 years of culture that has been institutionalized in the form of an Islamic republic. And the people are believe The Iranians are better Iranian citizens than the Americans are American citizens. The Iranians know their their republic, they know the institutions, and they believe in them, they support them. And it's not a dictat- It's not an Islamic dictatorship. I mean, again, they, you know, as Patrick said, we look at a turban and we look at a beard and we go, "Oh my god, ignorance." But actually, when I look at a turban and I look at a beard, I say, "That's That's 30 or 40 years of uh of some of the most stringent studying, academic studying, religious studying." You know, the these fiqh is is a is a term, and fiqh is the It's it's it's not just about religion, it's the human understanding of faith and how faith guides life. And you know, these guys, the the ayatollahs, you know, they study the Quran, they study the Sunnah, which are basically the teachings and actions and approval of the Prophet Muhammad told through eyewitnesses. It's a called Ijima and Qiyas. They have to say this isn't superficial. This isn't like an American getting a PhD in 5 years. That's superficial knowledge. We prove it by every walk around with a PhD saying I'm a doctorate from whatever university, I'm an expert. You're not an expert. You're nothing. You have superficiality. You cheated. You you you you you drank your way through college. Whatever you want to say. These people study. They have to go to a house of learning. They have to There's a board of religious experts who quiz them the whole time. And then the ultimate test is I guess you have to form a Marja. You have to go out there and you have to write your theory of religion as it applies to life. And you have to convince the people that you're a man that they can come to for you for to seek guidance and faith. And if you can't attract a Marja, you're not an you're not you're not the big boys. You don't get to join the big boy club. The Iran is in many ways far more democratic through their religious practices than we are because it truly is the power of the people that make the Ayatollahs relevant. If the people don't support the Ayatollahs, the Ayatollahs don't get to be Ayatollahs. Because they don't get to appoint themselves. I mean, this is the the the the amazing thing. And you know, right now I like I said, I have superficial you know, book learning from afar. Man, I want to go to Iran and just immerse myself in this because it I just think that if I could go there and I could see how they have embraced their their constitution, their republic, that there's lessons to be learned about citizenship. We don't need to bring religion, but you know, everybody's like, you know, they got the the Guardian Council and they got the Assembly of Experts. Religion is a bar. Money's a bar here in America. You can't do anything in America politically without money. So, we have a bar. You know, we've just decided that money, you know, oh, shame on the Iranians for making faith a bar for for higher office. Shame on them for putting standards drive not from superficiality, but a deep understanding of how religion interacts with humanity on a national basis. I you know, Are they perfect? Nobody's perfect. But, the the reason these this nation of Iran is standing together stronger today than they have ever been in the entire history of the Islamic Republic. If we thought we were weakening them, Patrick's is an eyewitness to the fact that we aren't. They are stronger and it's because of their faith. And maybe the American people need to have faith in our Constitution the way they have faith in their in their religion. Uh, you know, we're a nation 250 years old. Uh, yes, we don't have 5,000 years, but, you know, you don't need 5,000 years, you just need to believe in who you are. We don't even know who we are in the United States. The Iranians know exactly who they are. >> Yeah, and and Scott's what's is right. It's it's more of a bottom-up um the the supreme leader has a direct connection with the with the people. That's part of his uh, role actually. And this it's a it's a different system. It's a very unique system. And uh, it but it it's it kind of works in a way and it's in a way it's it's efficient in a certain way because they have they have the same consensus building um pools of institutions and people and politics that we have our consensus building system. Russia has a certain consensus building system. Russia has a massive national security um civil society and uh, vertical institutions plus all sorts of other institutions that creates this giant consensus pool that distills down uh, complicated ideas and that become uh, votes for policy. Iran has this as well. And it's and but the people are more engaged in the democratic process in Iran, I would argue than Americans are in their own system um, or the Europeans are. Definitely definitely more than Europeans um, and British. Cuz the leadership are very concerned with the way the people are feeling and thinking on all of these main issues and the debate is rigorous and it's nuanced and it's detail oriented. The Iranians are tireless analysts and you know, political debaters. They they have unlimited energy. There's no exhaustion threshold on this for Iranians. So, that in a certain way and they do have opposition there and it things do get heated and that's I would argue that's a that's a sign those are signs of a healthy democratic environment personally. I don't want to say system, I'll just say environment ecosystem. Um, so it you know, we we we think that there's no consensus building there that it's top down. It's not. It's absolutely the other way around. >> [music] >> Get out your notebook. There's more. If [music] you are a consumer of independent news and the first place you should be going to is Consortium News and please do try to support them you can. It doesn't have its articles behind a paywall. It's free for everyone. It's one of the best news sites out there and it's been in the business of independent journalism and adversarial independent journalism for over two decades. I hope that with the public's continuing support of Consortium News, it will continue for a very long time to come. Thank you so much.