Amherst Municipal Affordable Housing Trust August Meeting Aug 24, 2026

Good evening. Welcome to August meeting of the Affordable Housing Trust. We're not on our usual night. Uh but uh we've got a lot of important business and um we are expecting a few more of our members who are not yet with us. So maybe we'll give them uh just a second. And um and we also want to introduce some of our new members. Um, but let me ask if um uh Mora, you're do you have anything you you wish to raise before we get into our agenda? >> Nope. >> Okay. >> I think Linda's gonna join though, Linda Slaky. But that's for the agenda. >> Yes, of course. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We uh Carl. Okay. So, every everyone is here. Um, wonderful. So uh I I think the first order of business we should take a minute to meet our new members. Um and so I will give each of them a chance to introduce themselves and uh maybe just say a sentence about why you joined the trust and then we can have the rest of us introduce ourselves to them. Greg and I have already had another meeting with them but uh Bob and Paula you have met them of course but Carla Heay and Bob. So, Ethan, uh, why don't you start us off? >> Hi. Uh, good, uh, good afternoon. Uh, my name is Ethan Joe. I'm a junior at Amherst College, uh, majoring in American studies and Spanish. Um, I'm a case worker as well at Amherst Community Connections, uh, which helps, you know, housing insecure popup, uh, residents here in Pioneer Valley, uh, access into affordable housing. So I feel like uh it is a really good chance to be on these uh trust uh to do some policy changes and to advocate uh my you know experience to advocate for the people that I help with at a community connections. Uh one specific populations I'm really interesting helping is people who are involved in the criminal justice uh system. uh some of them have a lot of barrier in terms of accessing to public housing and I hope um there are some you know changes of policies uh to serve those kind of people. Uh it's a great honor to uh to serve on these uh trust and I'm looking forward to uh working with each of you guys. >> Thank you so much Ethan. We're we're very pleased to to have you with us. Uh, our second new member, uh, Mayan, please, uh, why don't you introduce yourself briefly? >> Hi. Um, my name is May. I'm on the bus right now in San Francisco. But, um, uh, I'm a sophomore at Ammeris College, double majoring in economics and French, and I joined the trust just because I had had really positive experiences being another town committee. I'm on the CDBG committee. Um, and I just kind of wanted to learn more about housing policy specifically because something that I have been learning a little bit more about now some of my LJST and political science classes at Ammerst has just been kind of like E was saying like the criminal justice system um, but also just about lowincome communities. So, I kind of wanted to better understand how to work in local government housing policy specifically. >> Yeah, I'm super grateful for that. >> Thank you. uh Mayan um in in no order uh he uh could you just share a sentence about yourself so they have a sense of where you're coming from um uh we'll we'll look forward to having an inerson event to connect further but this is our first uh meeting as as a new uh membership >> sure I can go next uh hi Een and Mayan nice to meet you both and uh hello again to everyone else so I hope you're you guys are all having a good summer so are. Uh my name is CJ. I uh I joined the trust not that long ago, about a year ago, I guess, like less than I forget exactly how long, but um um it's it's been a it's been a great experience uh getting to not only know the people on this uh in this in in this committee, uh past members and current members, but also to get to be a little bit more intimate with the the community uh itself. Um I'm also uh a recent transplant into the Amoris uh community. So my uh desire was to really understand uh the the community uh at large um especially on a topic that I am very passionate about and which is um making sure that housing is available to to everyone especially at the affordable level. So nice to meet you all. >> Thank you HJ. Uh, Carla. >> Hi there. I'm Carla. Um, I've been on the trust for about a year as well. Um, and I've lived in Amoris for about 15 years. I [gasps] became more interested in housing as an issue through my work as a psychiatric nurse practitioner. A lot of my patients at the hospital um, experience housing instability. I work in Greenfield. So that's kind of what uh piqued my interest and led me to [snorts] end up joining the the trust. So welcome to both of you. >> Thank you, Carla. Bob. >> Hi. Welcome and good to have you aboard. Um, I've also been on the trust for a little over a year and am a returnee to um the the Amoris area from longer ago than I would like to remember, but I've been back for about two little over two years. Um, housing is obviously a huge issue here. Um, something I just have an interest in. Um, I've been banging nails with Habitat for Humanity for a while and continue to do that and uh working on the housing trust really has has been an education and um hopefully we're we're making a difference as well. So, welcome. >> Thank you. And u Paul, maybe you can just reintroduce yourself. Sure. >> Uh Paul Buckleman, town manager. Um coming up on 10 years being town manager of Ammerst. I went to Hampshire College, moved away and then came back for this job. So um went to a graduate school for planning um and with housing as a piece of that. So um that's my background. >> Thank you. and you've had a chance to uh to hear from me, but I'll just uh for the sake of the the fullness of this recording, um I uh moved to Ammerst in 2018, got quickly involved with the license commission and was pleased to uh be able to to join the trust and and do my best to contribute to uh affordable housing in Amherst. And uh so Greg, please >> you want to just >> Oh, yeah. And uh as a reminder, I'm I'm Greg. I'm staff uh to the committee uh and uh work uh within the town's planning department um and working on uh matters related to the trust and other uh uh initiatives all related in some way to affordable housing. >> Okay, great. It's wonderful to have uh have us convened. So I think we don't have any minutes to review. Is that right, Greg? >> Uh that's correct. Unfortunately, I did not get to that. So we we'll do them. >> No, no worries. We have we have uh two two important items uh that that will call for votes. So we should go ahead and get started. And first up we've got uh wayfinders uh which is making an an interesting proposal whereby actually having more affordable units means that there's a a change to come back to us. So u floors who should we promote? Um, so I'm going to promote um, uh, uh, Jamie Gruber in just one minute who's the project manager on this with Wfinders. Um, and if I could uh just, you know, frame it slightly and Jamie will go into a bit more detail. Um, so Jamie, I'll promote you now and then, uh, we can go from there. But um, um, so this is a project that the trust um, has deep roots with. It's one of the very first initiatives the trust was involved with. Um however um less in the direct sense as a funer and more as a sponsor of um an RFP process or request for proposals process um which um the uh which Wayfinders uh was the eventual winner of um um and so um this is uh as a reminder Jamie will share the details but this is a um a two-site project centered uh on both the former East Street Elementary School um which is on East Street. Um and then a nearby site over on Belchuretown Road. Um and we'll see some details on that. Um and I think the um uh yeah and so I I guess I'll just say there's been some um some recent activity on this effort. This has been uh you know something that uh the town and the trust have been engaged with for a while. The town has completed its local permitting of this project. Um so uh design all that work is done. Um and so now um and our new members will learn about this over time. But the next big step is to receive state funding uh which we've been working on um uh really wayfinders has been leading more recently um um and they're up for a uh the next application uh for state funds. Um so that's kind of the timeliness of this. Um I'll just note that we've been uh supporting um their efforts to make some very modest architectural adjustments um having to do with um sort of reconciling historic preservation and accessibility and making sure everything talks to each other correctly. Um and then uh other folks may have seen more recently we re uh in the past about a week ago uh today I believe we um uh my my boss Jeff Bag hosted um the um uh the secretary of housing and livable communities from the state um a little visit here to Ammerst and we uh and they stopped by the East Street School site to sort of brief her and the project. So exciting things happening um and I we appreciate um Jamie and Wayfinders assisting all of that and leading most of it. Um but um uh with that I will hand it over uh to to Jamie. And please feel free Jamie if I I missed any critical opening details stick them in. >> Yeah, that's that's great Greg and uh and thank you very much. I you know I'll introduce myself. I'm Jamie Gruber. I'm a project manager with Wayfinders. I've been working on the um Ammeris development for uh about 4 years now to kind of you know get this u get this uh development um you know moving along and and everything and and we're in a really good spot and our next um place is is funding. Um and Greg I think you hit uh most of the the notes. So I guess maybe I'll give you a you know kind of a brief overview and history of the uh development and um how it how it came to life. uh you know with the town of Ammeris. It's been a longstanding uh town initiative. um go through that process uh uh a little bit and talk to you about, you know, what we're proposing and um and also um go over, you know, what we're, you know, hoping that, you know, we we'll have the um trust uh support us in, which would be um just a kind of a letter um with in support to the zoning board of appeals that would um you know, just state that it's it's a minor change uh in in nature and um it's actually going to make uh more affordable units and it's and it's actually due to um some of the uh regulatory and and things like that where we're trying to keep this um development that re you know it recently came to light to keep it as uh one phase as it's always been um kind of envisioned uh for the town. And with that, I'll share my screen and I will um give you the overview here. Let's see. All right. And can you all see my screen? Okay, great. So, um, so this is, uh, two sites, as Greg had mentioned, the East Street School in Belchuretown Road, um, at 31 Southeast Street. We are planning to do a um a complete renovation adaptive reuse of the school building while adding an addition um onto the um front of the the school connect by connected by a link. We'll be creating 31 units of studio ones, twos, and three bedrooms. Um and it's going to be fully visitable. It'll have elevator access to all floors. It'll be all electric and passive house. Um and at 70 Belchure Town Road, which is just down the street, that's going to um there is a couple of uh surplus um vacant uh single family homes on the site that'll be um removed and it'll be an all new construction um 47 unit uh building that will be a mix of studio, one, two, and three bedrooms. Um the same fully visitable all electric passive house. And these are the renderings of uh what the architectural renderings the um construction drawings are at uh that bid set level. So we're ready to go with that. Um and Wayfinders um if you're not familiar we um we are an organization of a a nonprofit uh based in Springfield um that does our work primarily up and down the the Pioneer Valley and 91 um corridor. We work um across the housing continuing from continuum from homelessness all the way to um in um home ownership uh uh programs. We we work in emergency shelter, transition housing, rental assistance, financial assistance, workforce development, and we also have a um a uh a property and asset management team that manages roughly 800 um apartment rental units um up and down uh the Pioneer Valley. Um and uh our real estate um development department which is what what the department that I'm in. Um so we do you know new construction, occupied rehabs, adaptive reuse, um supportive um services. Um we have uh resident service coordinators that that um attend to a lot of our properties that help um the the residents. Uh we work with the federal and state barbership programs. Um [clears throat] and uh just to work on uh the housing and financial counseling services to promote economic uh mobility and homelessness prevention and home ownership and uh credit workshops. some of our local developments. A couple in Ammerst uh currently are is Butternut Farms which is 27 units in Ammerst Olympia Oaks as well as in um Northampton. We have a live 155 uh on Pleasant Street along with uh the the lumber yard in Northampton and uh Northampton also has a sergeant house on Bridge Street and um in Holio we have a library comments. These are some of our uh you know more recent um developments that are close by, but we've just uh finished a 62 unit development in in Agawam um a couple years ago and just wrapped up one in um in Lello as well, 47 units and we have 60 units um being constructed right now in South Hadley and we're um finishing up the second phase of uh library commons here just adjacent to these sites for um to create another 40 or units there. Um, so our development team is is is led by Wayfinders as the project developer. We're working with attorney shots and Fenton out of um Springfield. We have O'Reilly Talbet and Oaken. Uh Joy Square Design is our architect and uh we have niche engineering CBA landscape architects and airtight energy consulting along with NEI uh general contractors for our construction u manager and pre-construction services um as long and will be our contractor for construction. So, just to give you a little bit of the background, um this has been a long long time um town initiative to create more affordable ho h housing. Um at 31 Southeast Street in in 2019, the town conveyed um that property um to uh for affordable housing purposes. And then um 70 Belchure Town Road where the all new construction building will be um was actually acquired by the town um for the purposes affordable housing and I think $135,000 in um Ammerst um affordable housing trust funds were used along with $600 in CPA. Um and then you know once those were acquired the town had issued a RFP to develop the sites. One of the things um goals in the RFP was um to create you know the maximum number of affordable units also to have uh you know a mixed income um development which is what we've um what we've proposed. Uh Wayfinders was selected as the preferred developer. Um and and since then the town has has even um contributed more in terms of uh a million dollars in in town funds [clears throat] with CPA and ARPA and um the town owned properties will be leased at a at a nominal fee. We're we're extremely grateful for all the local support that uh the town has had, the um ongoing support of the affordable housing trust through our CPA applications um and you know providing us support um at at different times. So um and Belchure Town Road had gone um had undergone some some um renovations and infrastructure improvements as well. And um at Southeast Street, they also did a uh fixed an old covert and and and did a a nice ecological restoration there, which I was able to see when we were on site um last week with the secretary. So, and then all through the process, we've um you know, we we've we've been working with the town staff, the town had town department meetings, met with the fire, engineering, building departments, public works, conservation, and planning. We've done quite a few um presentations for the historic commission, planning board, conservation commission, and the zoning board of appeals. And we've held um some multiple uh information sessions as well. So, it's been going on for four years. And um you know, a lot of our and and it's and and and we're and we're still, you know, we're still really working um hard to kind of get this to the next the next step here. Um, and some of our development goals was just the efficient use of land, the barrierfree housing, sustain sustainability with the passive house, enterprise green communities and um solar uh solar PV and and that and um and as well as the operational goals. We not only develop the sites, we also manage them. So this will become uh part of wayfinder's portfolio. We have an on-site um property management um presence. [clears throat] All right. And then um as I me as uh Greg had mentioned the site control that was that was complete. We were selected as the preferred developer. We have a land development agreement um with the with the town of Ammerst. Um and then that'll eventually turn into a future 99-year ground lease on the properties. Um, our due diligence is complete, our permitting is complete. We um we got a um a comprehensive permit issued in February of 20 um 25 and conservation permitting is also complete. Our design is is is is complete to uh to bid set documents and our our contractor selection is also complete. So, we're ready for construction. The next stage is uh is is the funding and um and that's what we've been working on. We've submitted pre-applications in uh 2025 and 2026. The state holds um annual rounds. Sometimes they hold a second um more sort of concentrated round called a mini round that um you may you know need to be invited into. Um so we're looking to advance this into the full round this year and um we had a really positive conversation, you know, so so we're we're really um hopeful and and um and it was great that the secretary was able to come out last week and stop in Ammerst and we were able to, you know, kind of present the the the development uh to her. So that was that was great. So that's what we're in. the um the the pre-applications are due next month and then [clears throat] the full application is due uh at beginning of December. And uh so the sites are located uh close to downtown, walking distance and uh close to bus stops. We have 31 Southeast Street and East Ammerst across um from the new school and uh on the opposite side of the uh the green town green there. And then Belchuretown Road is just, you know, less than a quarter of a mile away, just down down the road from that. So, it's two separate sites. And that's actually one of the reasons why we're um coming back and and, you know, with the with the removal of the market rate units. In order to kind of see this um development move through as one phase, we'd um be looking to remove the market rate units that we had initially um proposed. And there were there were 10 of them at Southeast Street. and um we would we would just make those um you know into a different mix of affordability levels so it would become um more affordable. So at 31 Southeast Street, we have 31 units. Um the at part of the RFP, the um requirement was for at least uh you know, 66% of the units to be twos and three bedrooms and family housing, which is consistent with uh with some of the state um you know, funding sources as well. That's one of the um the areas that we like to call this is is family housing. So, we're creating um you know, 15 two-bedroom units and and and and five three three-bedroom units. Uh two of the units on this site will be accessible and all of the units will be visitable with elevator access to all floors. Um the school building is set back a little bit from the road, but um the new um addition portion that's going to have 26 units will be along um the the the road and it'll frame a nice little courtyard um for residents to use. There'll be a on-site um laundry uh community room and a property management office with indoor bike storage as well. The Belchure Town row site is uh 47 units. Um there there are uh 12 one-bedrooms, 23 twobedrooms, and uh 10 three-bedroom units. And six of the um units will be accessible. The parking will be in the rear of the site, and it'll be um uh along the um Belchuretown Road here. And there's um and there's a bus stop right across the street from from this one as well. Um and then this is the site plan. And this site will also have a community room, on-site laundry, and um it's going to be all electric, passive house, elevator access to all floors, and uh six accessible units. Um [clears throat] and then as far as the income levels go, um we're we're talking about um the area median income and uh how the affordable units will be restricted. So to give you an example on this chart, we're going to have a mix of 30 AMI to 80 AMI units. And so, uh, a single person household, um, in the 50% AMI category could have a annual income of, uh, $46,000 and then they will qualify for one of those um, one of those units. And then a family of four um making up to $105,000 could um would would qualify for an 80% AMI unit which is sometimes uh referred to as workforce units. So these are the these [clears throat] are the the the salaries or not the salaries but the uh the area mean income for um different household sizes. And just take a minute here to So here's the uh affordability unit matrix at 31 and 70 Belchuretown Road combined. It's 78 units. We're proposing roughly 30% of the units at the 30% AMI level. um 15% at the 50% AMI level, six 31% at the 60 AMI level, and then 24% at the 80% AMI level to um come up with the 78 units. And then here are the totals. We have three studios, 22 one bedrooms, 38 twobedrooms, and 15 um threebedrooms. at 70 Belturetown Road. This has always been um since the RFP, this this site will remain unchanged. Um the site carries an affordability restriction on it that all the um all of [clears throat] all of the units need to be affordable there um due to it being purchased for affordable housing purposes uh with the CPA and uh affordable housing trust um dollars. So, we have a mix of 30s through 80s here. And then at 31 Southeast Street, we have 31 units. And we um we had initially had um 10 market rate units. And those have been um re redistributed in between the 50% AMI and 60% AMI level. So now we have um you know the 31 units, the the one studio, 10 onebedrooms, 15 twobedrooms and and three I mean five uh threebedroom units and they'll be um uh distributed as it's shown on the the upper table here. So, and that's and that's basically the change that we're asking for the um the trust's support. And here we go. So, the development timeline moving forward is is funding dependent. Um right now we're requesting the letter of um support from for our HL EOHLC or Executive Office of Housing and Livable Community Funding round. Um, our pre-application is due in September and our full application is due in December. And um, so we're requesting a letter of support for that full application as well as a letter to the zoning board of appeals um, for the the minor comprehensive permit um, amendment. As Greg had said, this project or development has been permitted and um the unit matrix that shows up in the comprehensive permit would just need to be an amendment. We see this as a as a minor um sort of inconsequential change. So um but we wanted to um you know get the uh the trust support in that um prior to going to the zoning board of appeals. Um, and [clears throat] then as we move forward, we'll be submitting our full application in December. And then hopefully in the spring hear something on that. And then from spring summer, we'll be doing uh um pre-closing investor solicitation and and um going into financial closing, which hopefully would start construction in 2028, possibly the win um you know, late winter of 27 if we are awarded in the first round. Um and then um and then it would be an 18month construction timeline to um hopefully have these completed in the fall of 2029. So beautiful. So, um Jamie, can you just again summarize the the exact change that you want us to to support uh for these two um you know, for the EOHLC and and the permit amendment? >> Yeah. So the the um the permanent amendment we we we'd ask that you seek that I mean we would ask that you support the change from the 10 market rate units to the five 50% AMI and five 60% AMI units >> for for the general letter for our full funding application we would just ask that you you know support the the development overall it's not a specific it's not anything specific just that, you know, the the affordable housing trust has, you know, it's been such so instrumental in helping us with the CPA and and everything else and all the local support and we, you know, we we are really appreciative of of that, you know, continued support that has gone on and just sort of that overall support of the development, you know, on behalf of the the trust. >> Thank you so much, Jamie. Thanks for for giving us the background. Wayfinders is a, you know, long-standing partner. So, it's great for everyone to remember the the extent of your work. So, let's open it up for questions. Who has any questions? This is a great chance if you're just curious about any aspect of the project um to uh to to ask Jamie while we have them with us. >> I have a question and a comment. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Can go. >> I just want to um go ahead. Yeah. Um, quick comment just to say because I'm particularly excited about the new school. It's just such a great location given the new school that's opening up in Ammerst. Um, that we've been waiting for for a long time. I think it's just a a great great place to have this project. Um, and I just um I'm just trying to clarify is this um what is the reason for the change? I I I'm sure you said it, but I just just to kind of put it in context. Is it making it easier to secure funding or I mean I overall I think this project is amazing. I'm just blown away. I'm so excited to see it go up in Ammerst and I'm going to give my full support. I'm just curious just to understand it in context. >> Yes, I it's it's it is it is twofold. It will make it um you know less complicated, more easily to fund. But also um there is sort of a regulatory item that has recently come to light where with the inclusion of market rate units and because the um the sites are separated physically separated from one another that um it it it would have to be you know phased as as two separate sort of litec uh trans which is the low-income housing tax credit which is where we get the lion share of the funding. So it is it is sort of a regulatory issue where um having it be all affordable but mixed income to the you know 80% AMI level would allow it to move forward as one phase one litec um uh transaction which which makes it simpler and easier to um to to to fund. I mean these these deals are are extremely complex and you know when when additional complexities get added into them it just it just sort of you know slows them down a little bit. So that that that's the main that's the main reason to kind of move on as as as one phase as as we have always intended and I know is that from what I've heard um you know with the town and everybody that's been involved to just you know the the two sites will be constructed simultaneously you know in in one phase and you know same construction period and that's what the that's what the plan is and and that's that's what we want it to remain at. So that that being the reason. >> Okay. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for asking that question and clarifying for us, Jamie. Uh, Een, >> yeah, hi Jamie. Um, you know, I I work closely with wayfinders. I really appreciate work the work that you uh you and your team does, uh, including applying, you know, helping people applying for raft and stuff like that and we do have lots of participants who apply for wayfinders housing. So the question I have is in terms of barrier for application uh for what I can recall and correct me if I'm wrong uh previously we need to submit the paper copy to each property that we're applying and now it seems like in the spring you stopped doing that and want us to apply online and for the online specific property it's just the same application over and over again and you know because those properties are really competitive and our participants apply maybe 10 time 10 properties at the same time. So it just like there's no streamline uh application that we can send out to 10 properties. So the question I have is uh what is that something that you see as a barrier of application how people apply or is that something it changed over the summer? Um, yeah, that's I mean that's a you know that's that's a that that's a great question. This um this development would would would have its its own marketing so that the applicant would apply you know for an apartment at this and we usually start that process 6 months prior to when the construction is um is complete. And um through that applicant process, there's then a there's then a a lottery where you know folks are um you know are chosen and would be eligible to um you know have the opportunity to move in to um one of the units. So that might that might differ from you know helping somebody I guess apply to get on a waiting list for one of uh our our existing properties. But that's, you know, it's something I'm happy to kind of follow up on um with the with the staff that handles uh the the the applications to to determine if if there is something, you know, else there that would help streamline that process. >> Wonderful. And uh Een, it's great to have your awareness of of how these parts of the process work uh because these are questions that that I would not think of. Thank you, Jamie, for for considering that um inquiry. Bob, please. >> Yeah, just wondering if um the ask of the state changes at all with this with this change or is it the same amount of funding that you're looking for from the state? Um yeah, it is the it is uh we are going to be looking to um you know get yeah get the same you know get the fund the same amount um of you know for the deal. uh having more of the the units affordable will um just sort of offset versus sort of uh you know private borrowing versus um uh raising uh additional equity with our tax credit investors. So it's sort of a you know kind of a a just a a mix between those two. >> Okay. Uh he just shifted. >> Mhm. >> Thank you, Bob. >> Uh hi, Jamie. Thanks for the presentation. Uh it's really well delivered. Um I think generally the changes seem uh in line with what the the trust is is looking for. I guess I'm just a little bit more uh curious about the background about how funding works in this situation. And this is just coming from a very naive perspective. um you know, market rate apartments now being transferred into affordable housing looks like it's it's uh giving more funding through tax credits. Is that more of a short-term gain or is there some sort of long-term sort of uh uh drawback to doing it this way? just just out of curiosity. I just I don't understand the nuance between the short-term and the long-term uh by changing the the affordability uh counts for the rooms. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the main the main thing is is the is the um is because they're two separate sites, it it would it would incur an extensive amount of upfront cost to split the deal up into two separate and and delay things um to to have it go into possibly two funding rounds and, you know, split it up in that in that regard. Now, um, [clears throat] and you know, with that said, and and I think to to what Bob was sort of getting at is that yes, well, more units um would qualify for for basis. Um, so it would allow us to um raise more um private in, you know, investor for the the state the state and federal uh low-income housing tax credits. um as opposed to possibly borrowing um on a you know on a on a permanent loan. So it's not it's I don't see it as sort of a you know shortsighted or or or longsided. It's just a shift in kind of you know how how it all sort of shakes out. Is that >> Yeah, thanks for clarifying that. It's it's just it I don't understand the side of the fun funding or any or anything really related to uh how affordable funding works with government um uh credits. But thanks for answering that. And then maybe just a small followup uh kind of along the lines of what Een was uh asking. So I I get that there are two physical properties here. It's one development project. Is the application is there one singular application for both of these properties? >> Yes. Yes, there will be. Yes. Yeah, >> good question. Thank you. Um, any uh further questions? May or Paul? Any any inquiries here? >> No. So, um, I I just want to uh structure our our vote uh appropriately. So, I I take it we want these two letters of support. As you said, one of them would address the the shift from the market rate units. The other one would look for general support. Um uh we would you know we don't have those drafted certainly we would uh request your feedback about the key points that should be included. Um uh Greg what do you think? Can we just structure a vote uh of uh whether we want to support the um the project with these two letters and that you know we'll uh go ahead and and and draft those um uh in due course. Um yeah, I mean I think if if you all want to vote to uh to take that action um you know I can uh draft letters to the ZBA and um at the direction of Jamie either EOHLC or perhaps directly to Wayfinders depending on the best approach you know for the the the later term letter. Um uh and yeah and then I would propose something I could draft something and happy to work it out with you as chair um if folks want to empower us to do that. And I think um the the one sort of phrasing that might belong in a vote, Jamie, and correct me if I'm wrong, but is is the idea that we want to sort of propose to the ZBA that the trust believes this is an inconsequential change. >> Yeah. >> Or insubstantial. >> Insubstantial. Is is that the kind of the the zoning phrasing we want to >> Okay. Um >> Jamie, is there any downside for us doing this? It sounds just like a good thing. Yeah, I I don't I it's it's um I don't see I don't see a downside to this. I think it I think it it it you know makes it it makes it more affordable. It retains its its mixed income um approach with the 80% AMI level. Um and it it also um you know it's going to help sort of with um with our our funding and the the the investors in the development who we'll partner with and um and and work with. So I think it's a I think it's it's it's it's really the the the best path forward for this. >> Do you do you anticipate coming back to the town or the trust for additional funds because of this? >> Not at this time. No. >> Okay. not because of this. Thank you. >> Would you mind putting up that slide that that detailed the two letters? >> Yes. And and I'm I'm curious, you know, what how how did you discover the the two project conundrum >> just in in uh in working with our tax council and um this the the the structure of the um the low-income housing tax credit minimum set aside so that we were able to um get the 80% AMI units into the the qualified basis. has a it's a it's a it's a slightly newer rule where um it's just some of these kind of nuances that that came along with it. The 80% AMI units were initially um brought into the development as as a workforce housing. There was a there was a large workforce housing um uh I guess um funding source through uh through Mass Housing where you know it it helped with the the construction of this and with a lot of sort of the funding um that has kind of fallen off the table. This allowed us to generate it through the the leveraging the federal federal uh low-income housing tax credits. So, kind of restructuring the deal so that we could leverage more federal funds is sort of, you know, with the 80% MI units is is kind of how this all came to be. So, >> well, it's it's nice when the the discovery means more affordable housing units, you you find a receptive audience with us. So, uh uh do we have a a motion to uh uh support this project by producing the two letters that have been requested? >> Motion. >> Okay. Uh so, uh uh I think he you spoke up first. So he has a a motion to support the project by producing the two letters of uh of support that have been requested. Do we have a second? >> I'll second. >> Okay. Uh my beat to the punch, Bob. So thank you, >> Bob. You got to work on this. >> I know. I gota >> um uh uh so uh we we have a a vote now. Uh Bob, you you go first. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh, Carla, >> yes. >> Uh, Een, >> yes. >> Uh, he >> yes. >> Mayan, >> yes. >> Paul, >> yes. >> And I vote yes. So, we have a unanimous vote of uh of support for the project and we'll get those letters uh produced. Jamie, if uh you wouldn't mind specifying any details besides what has already come up, um that that'll help us get it right on the first pass. >> Okay. All right. That's Yeah, that's uh that that's perfect. I'll see if I can uh uh you know, send something over to to to Greg and and and we can go from there. Does that sound like a plan? >> Perfect. Great. >> Wonderful. Thank you uh for for joining us this evening. >> Yeah, thank you for having me and thanks for thanks for all the support. For sure. Thank you. >> Our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Bye. >> All right. Well, so that's our our first uh item of of of action this evening. And we have uh uh a followup with a very um important partner of ours, the Amoris Community Land Trust. Uh so let's uh get uh Linda and uh is she joined by is Kathleen with with her with uh ACL? >> I don't believe so. But Linda, I'm promoting you and please let me know if there's anybody else I should be adding to the I don't to the mix here. >> Hi, Linda. >> Hi. [clears throat] Thank you for having me back. So, >> um, Greg and I made, um, had a little discussion of this this afternoon, and in place of running PowerPoint slides, I was just going to walk people through the request and see if there are questions. But when we made that decision, I was not paying attention to the fact that there would be two new people tonight. So if you'll bear with me, I would like to just show the first three slides from the longer presentation that uh the previous members heard in November [clears throat] just as a way of >> Sure. No, it's good. It's good to be able to visualize the project people who saw it once already. >> Okay. So, let me go to share here. And first thing we're going to share >> and and uh you know, Een and and Mayan, you're you know where the um Ammerst Cinema is just down the hill about uh 100 yards or so is what we're talking about. >> So, some of you may have noticed if you follow the Hampshire Gazette, this was actually a front page story. uh a few weeks ago about this project. So the building that predominates in this uh picture is actually new. If you if you walk down Amd Street, if you start at the cinema and start downhill on Amity Street, this is in the second block. And if you've been in Ammerst for a long time or used to taking that walk, the older building you may recognize by a hallmark on the part of it that faces the street, which is a big carved wooden bird. That's the property that we're talking about. Um, and then I'm going to bear with me for shuffling here, but I'm going to have to stop this here and start again in order to switch to the PowerPoint slides that discussing Oh, come on. Power you up. Oh, there it is. So, uh this is just a a quick review for everyone and perhaps new for the new members. A community land trust model uh simply is that the trust raises money uh in order to purchase land and we own the land in perpetuity and uh then that takes a big chunk off the price. That's how that's the mechanism for supporting affordable home ownership. The relationship between the trust and its homeowners is governed by a document called a ground lease which is for 99 years effectively in perpetuity. It has two really big requirements that the homeowners have to be comfortable with. Uh one is that they have to live there. Now, of course, one imagines that's what people were looking to do when they buy a home. But it means very specifically that should their plans change and they relocate, they can't hold this property and run as a rental. They have to put it back up for sale affordably. So that the whole development will be owner occupied affordable homes in perpetuity. And then the homeowners also agree um that the price that they paid is capped. um it can rise with time but it doesn't rise with market forces. It rises with the force with the documented rise in area median income. So if they were at 70% AMI when they purchased when they sell they'll be at whatever that they sell 15 years hence. Whatever is 70% AMI then will govern what they can charge for a resale price. So those are just sort of the key elements that were the background to how this development will run. And then um when I presented this project um to the trust in November um this was this sketch was the site plan. This site plan still holds. There were previous versions, but the one that we had settled on by November took account of the fact that there's a small wetland in the southeast corner of the lot um that had to be worked around. So, this will have a park-like rear atmosphere in which there will be only native plantings. That's part of the agreement of allowing us to intrude on the 100 foot buffer of the wet land, but not the 50. So this line represents the the 50-foot boundary and the darker rosecoled hatching there that's the ground that's the footprint of the existing building and it is large enough that it uh can be divided into three townhouse units and then on the space that's kind of overgrown a bit unckempt in recent years um that will be cleared and h we have a partnership with Habitat for Humanity which will build a duplex that's shown in the drawing in slightly paler rosecoled hatching. Uh and the larger footprint unit is actually one story and accessible uh to mobility impaired residents. Uh and the front one which was the sort of center of the architect's drawing that was featured in newspaper article is twotory. Um the um accessible unit is two-bedroom and the twotory is threebedroom. The units in the townhouse units um the the frontmost one and the backmost one each have three bedrooms and the central one has four bedrooms. So those are definitely family housing. So, I'll um if if there are no questions at this stage about the project itself, I'll switch to um the what we presented and what was in your packets uh as a request for a 10% escalation of the funds that you've already committed to this project. >> Yes. Um, any questions about the the physical project itself before we get into the the financial dimensions of putting this bringing this to life. >> Okay. All right. >> So, now we're looking at the document that was in your packet. So, how did we come to this stage and discover that we needed a little bit more money? Well, first the document summarizes for you the project status. Um, basically the pre-development phase is complete. Um, all the various permits are in hand and then um there's a long table um that comes off the first page of the proforma which I can make accessible in detail if anyone wants to look at it. Um, it's a public document. It's been reviewed at various stages. Uh and Greg has a copy of the whole proform. So this is clipped from its summary first page of the overall funding. Um and the highlighted item at the very bottom there shows how sort of what relationship the funding that we're requesting tonight has to the whole. Um so again checking off just the stages pre-development is complete. It actually cost less than we had predicted. So that was a little carryover into the next phase. Um we're in the midst of the acquisition phase. the attorneys representing AMAHT, the seller and ACLT are passing documents around um as as well as the attorneys who represent the lender in Boston that's going to give us a major loan um to cover the construction in the existing building, the reconstruction in the existing building. Um so acquisition we hope happens a week from today. We are scheduled for a closing a week from today. Um it's worth noting that um this property assessed uh formally um at almost $700,000 and we are being offered it for $475,000. So the first private gift to this property is the generosity of the current owners who discounted way bel the market very substantially provided that we committed the use to affordable housing. So our interests ran together there and the the sort the reason that we find ourselves in need of of making additions on the funding side arises in the costs of the redevelopment phase. So that's addressed on the next page. How do we find ourselves so close to property acquisition and needing more funding that we anticipated? [clears throat] Several things have been a little more or a little less than the projection that we made many months ago, but one that changed um too much to just sort of measure off against changes in the opposite direction. Um the contractor uh the president of the contracting company that we are working with has in fact been um donating his own time for months now to participate in our planning conversations. Um and he made an estimate that seemed to him realistic based on years of experience of handling buildings of this age and upgrading them and moni modernizing them. But in fact uh when he finally collected all the sub bids quite recently that happened during June and early July um presumably motivated by inflation but also by great uncertainty um on the parts of all of his subcontractors. The the GMP here stands for guaranteed maximum price. So earlier there were estimates good faith estimates that that this was a realistic number to plan with but by the time all the the subs were in this price is is a commitment on his part that that's the total he will collect. If things get abruptly worse that's his problem not ours. Um so uh when that number finally came in together with uh a contingency allowance that we had made, we allowed at his advice he he kind of saw this problem coming and he uh as a participant in the working group conversations urged that we allow a much larger contingency as a fraction of the total than would be customary in a project like this. It's really twice as big as would customary have been um used uh with the total with being 900. But in fact, the escalation here ate the contingency. Uh our Boston lender wouldn't let us take the contingency to zero. Wasn't allow us to proceed with no contingency. So now the sum of the bid and the contingency um is um very substantial about $190,000. And as we went along among others, we interviewed vendors to um conduct the uh statemandated or state regulated process for fair marketing. We aren't a big enough organization to have a staff person that has that certification. So um we we were looking in the market for people to do that. That led to two firms having a conversation with them with us. Both of them were dismayed at how narrow the margin was between the upper limit of the allowed income. These are going to be offered to families whose income does not exceed 80% of AMI, but the prices require them to have 70% AMI. Uh otherwise, they won't be able to meet the algorithm. You know, people overextend themselves all the time. But there is an algorithm that says if you're going to benefit by public assistance, then uh your housing should be not more than 30% of your budget. Um so that sets a limit to what we can have the price be. So we had pegged the prices to 70% which means that we were asking them to market to a relatively small segment of the of the people who might otherwise be eligible and they were strongly recommending that we try to improve on that. So just as a matter of information, we didn't change it in the proforma, but it turns out that for roughly for every 5% you drop um the AMI, they repe your prices, so they're eligible um to a broader range. That cost you about $59,000 per 5% AMI. So um we we called this $190,000 gap. if we're going to go back out to people and ask for more money, we might as well address this problem while we're at it. Um so the that means looking at about a quarter of a million dollar gap. And the game plan for addressing that included a review of our costs. Um we could we took the lower of the two bids of the two marketing firms um and relative to the performer we were working with. That saved us a little money. And we also looked really carefully with the contractor at savings in the construction. And a modest amount can be saved in the construction by um abandoning one of the energy conservation measures that we had in there which we would very much like to put back. But it it's the what we're doing is perfectly the code. This was just a trick of putting in so-called energy recovery vents. So in the bathroom and kitchen vents instead of just blowing out air that you've spent money on fuel to heat and they go through a more complicated ducting system that allows you to recapture allows incoming cool air to capture heat from the exiting air. um but um it costs a little more and that was sort of the only place we could realistically see a savings because it had been carefully planned in the first place to to not make luxury choices. So then um that we then launched on uh private fundraising that is just an approach to our own uh usual uh people that we approach and some that we hadn't approached before. ACLT itself upped its commitment which had originally been 100,000 from our reserves. So we went up by 10%. We set a goal of of collecting at least 90,000 in new uh fundraising. And in fact, to our astonishment, um in two weeks of putting this before our friends and neighbors, we raised almost $150,000. Um, so if you put in the 30,000 that is requested, um, we'll be at the point where as we continue fundraising while the project is up and running, um, we we have a few months before we have to publicly announce the prices. Um, and also we have a few months before the contractors will be closing the walls and we can't reverse the decision about putting in energy recovery vents once we've made a contract with a vendor that won't come back. Um, so that's where we are. Um, and I've just I think there's an additional paragraph in your document where I just summarize what our continuing fundraising goals are, which is to restore the energy efficiency. The other savings place was instead of restoring the historic floors. There's some incredible wideboard floors in that building um that we can lay down pergola. Oh, that's not right. Pergo. >> Pergo. >> Thank you. Pergo. Um and uh a high priority is to increase the window of affordability. Um and we'd like to restore the developers fee that in quotes there that's in fact the fund that will come back to ACL that will position us to have a brisk start on our next venture as we had reserves available to start this one. But the really key element that I hope you'll u take pleasure in supporting is our ability to increase the window of affordability. >> Questions? >> Okay. Uh very good. So you know this is a a big project with a lot of moving parts. It's been a labor of of love and vision from uh you know a dean of natural sciences and mathematics at UMass going on to do volunteer work to enhance affordable housing and ownership and uh we're we're grateful to be able to to support the the project. So the request is uh in effect, we can look at it from our standpoint as a kind of 10% uh increase on our uh existing commitment. Um and that number shakes out from all of those moving parts that were just documented. So yes, let's have some questions for for Linda. Feel free to ask questions about the project or or where the numbers are coming from or anything else that comes to mind. Mayan, please. Um, I saw on one of the slides it said something like you were talking about some of the main costs being attributed to inflation, but then there was something else that said other fees as well. I was just kind of wondering if you could maybe you could pull back up the slides if I'm like saying the wording wrong, but I was wondering if you could maybe expand upon if there are other like fees that are coming out that aren't attributed to inflation that maybe would be relevant. >> Oh, the um I think this is conjecture. I had a conversation with Seth Lawrence Llavas who was the contractor about this and this was months ago and he didn't believe that the tariffs that had been going back and forth had impacted all that much on um the specific kinds of things that would be needed for this project. Um, personally it seems to me that when when you ask a contractor to give a guaranteed minimum price, so separately, you know, the the plumber has to come forward with the GMP, all the subcontractors, um, that's what they're going to get regardless of the peculiarities of the current cost situation because of the political the of tariffs being used as as a political maneuvering point to an extent. ent that they haven't done before. Um I I don't know uh just that the bottom line from the contractor's perspective was that uh he was unpleasantly surprised that the subcontractor bids uh came out higher than his experience suggested they would. >> And sorry, could I ask a follow-up question? >> Thank you so much for uh clarifying. Um, I guess I was just wondering in the future, do you anticipate, you know, down the line in in the project there being any other like additional unexpected costs beyond today or would this kind of be >> I actually I mean you never know um but I'll tell you explicitly uh what what will happen subsequently and uh I already emphasized that the contractors both the general contractor which is right builders and the subcontractors at this stage submit a guaranteed maximum price so they would have to argue hard for charging more we've gone back and forth on the actual conditions quite a bit uh if if the client ACLT in this case comes forward in two months and says oh I'd really like that to be a little different that's opening a great big door for them that can and come forward with a substantial increase in the cost whether it's intrinsic to what you asked them to change or not. So we've made a real effort to get to a point where uh unless the house this is another caveat when you open the walls in a house that's almost 200 years old sometimes you get bad surprises and that leads to change orders. Um on the other side of that equation, the contractor is very experienced with builders with buildings of this um age. It it's a part of their standard market segment to redo old houses. So they're more energy efficient and they still look like they architectural they still have the same architectural vocabulary, but inside them they function like modern houses. So, um, your point is well taken. We've, we've done what you reasonably can at this stage and we're close to the big cost items that by by far the biggest single cost item is the the guaranteed maximum price that builders will charge us. >> Thank you. Um, May and Linda Paul, uh, >> two questions. So, but the shouldn't uh Linda, shouldn't the GMP take away any uncertainties that uh in terms of you opening the wall and discovering something? Isn't that included in the GMP? >> Yes. Unless we change our minds and when we say >> Right. Understood. But if you you said if you know sometime you surprises. >> Yeah, that's right. The the kinds of surprises that are bad luck for the contractor are the contractor's problem. >> Right. So it's only if the trust says oh we want to put in triple pane windows or quadruple pane something different. >> Yeah. Yeah. we aren't going to come across with some >> and I think we had wanted to know the um what what is the balance in the uh trusts reserves at this moment and then what would they be after you know if we give the 30,000 >> are are you asking Gaston for the >> No I'm talking about the land trust >> um oh let me go let me go get that and uh and follow up I'm >> No reserves Yeah, because Linda, you you mentioned that you were going from 100 to 110 of your own res of your own cash, >> correct? >> And so I think Paul's asking uh what's your current cash and what will it be after the 110 if Yeah, >> it's good question. Sorry I didn't bring Rob Connor with me. Um the hundred that we've already committed, >> right? um reduced reduced our totally flexible reserve. We have enough there for the 10, but not a lot more. It when I when I label it reserve, I truly mean funds that we haven't made some other commitment to. Our bank balance is substantially better than that. Um, but we recently hired our first staff member. Um, and we made a decision as a board. Um, he's he's now served for a year, so he's just had an evaluation. He's performed very well. Um, and so now this starts the clock on a commitment that we made to ourselves that we were always going to be able to see that we could afford the person for two more years. So no staff person has to spend a whole year helping us hustle the money that allows them to still be employed the following year. So if you look at our bank balance, you'll find that it's it looks like 10,000 isn't going to make much of a dent in it. Um, but if you look at the version that just shows what's truly uncommitted at this point, um, 10,000 or I I don't remember the exact number. I'd leave something like 10 or 15 left in the reserves. >> So, if I can follow up the I mean, suppose the trust I mean, the town has put $750,000 into this project so far. >> Um, if the if the trust says no to the additional 30, does the project die or would you find the money someplace else? project doesn't die. >> Okay. >> Yeah. The if you were following the uh the way those charts that I submitted were set up, um they were tidily set up. So, it showed showed a a $30,000 gap, but the truth is that the amount we raised more than we thought we would over the last few weeks. We had we had said that um we needed to raise 120 but in fact we raised 150. So we've already started to eat on those goals that we're asking you to help us eat away which is to reduce reduce the price to restore a little bit more. It took our that extra fundraising took our current um we had basically zeroed out the developers fee. If we do the pricing at 70% AMI and everything runs the way the current proform shows, we'll get back 14,000 of the >> 110 we put into it. It it feels to me like we're providing $30,000 to the ACLT and not necessarily to the project, but I don't know if that's really the role of the trust. I mean, I think you have the resources. I mean, it's a project that you want to initiate and coming to the town for additional funds because there's a bit of a gap. It doesn't seem it seems like you're have fundraising capacity and we have a lot of projects that are coming down the road that and dedicating even more funds to this project. I think it's about 150,000 a unit that we're putting into this. Um it it's not a lot. 30,000 isn't going to break either of us, I don't think. But I just question why you come to the trust first where there's versus, you know, fixing fixing the gap yourself. >> We put that request in before we knew that the that the community was going to react at level that they did. Um, and even with that success, we're still budgeting that we need the revenue at 70% that we that comes from pricing the homes at 70% area median income with that small population to find the funders. uh I mean to um the marketers are going to be trying to find exactly suitable candidates from a relatively narrow cut. Um if if if it were more comfortable in terms of whether the um the AMAH is being asked to give money to the lines with its mission. uh we would be comfortable if you earmarked it to say this has to go to lowering um the price points that that would put the burden back on us to raise that much money just to keep the project going. >> Yeah, I understand that >> question is correct. Paul, I I'll just say I've been stunned to tell you the truth of the level of the community's generosity of this project. And I don't mean just this project. I mean ACLT as a project. The people that we sent that fundraising letter around to just a few weeks ago collectively had come up with $150,000 to enable a low-income family to buy 61 Furing Street >> just six months ago. Um, among other things, the the letter unearthed a new donor. We sent it to the mailing list for the Sunset Pleasant monthly brunch and that someone who's never paid us any attention before that gave us substantial gift. I think that um that what ACLT has done is set up a piece of infrastructure, modest as it is, that enables people who are very concerned that what they were able to do as young people coming into Ammerst is not possible for the generation that's coming into Ammerst now. Well, it isn't coming into Ammerst that's buying in East Hampton because it's out of the question to look in Ammerst. So I I mean I I agree with you on that and I think that's why I think especially the location of this in the neighborhood that it's located in or adjacent to and it's a very attractive thing for people especially people have to do required minimum distributions of their um retirement funds. It's a very attractive thing and I just think that the fundraising capacity is certainly there. Um and I and I and I keep thinking about our next project. You're thinking about your next project. We're thinking about our next project which might not be as um >> in such an attractive location you know that's and might run into bigger problems um you know we don't have the luxury of doing um guaranteed maximum pricing as a as a community other people do. So um I don't know I I'm hesitate on your I I love what you're doing. I love the project. Um I think I think it's it's going to be a landmark project because it's going to be very visible to everybody. Um so I think they really support it but um >> yeah I just I think the trust has lots of priorities that we're trying to achieve and um we have contributed a lot to this project as well as already. >> Thank you Paul. uh Fij maybe something to help uh help me understand a decision here um >> wasn't really understanding the time pressure on this. Could you help me understand like if a fund >> we need to know now? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because all of our funders including our lenders >> Yeah. >> require that before they release any money we have to be able to point to having every dollar either in hand or credibly committed. So we can't go ahead with the acquisition a week from now that we can't point to credibly to having all the funds in hand or committed. That doesn't stop us from fundraising in order to improve the affordability. But but but what we're actually committed to doing um Greg can explain he's he's been charged with making sure we do in fact have all the funding credibly committed before both before the town will sign off on the 300,000 you've already committed is essential to our ability to buy the property a week from today. the 300,000 is this this additional 30,000 I'm just I'm trying to understand that this >> the yeah the additional 30 uh the 30 there's no time pressure to have the 30 in the bank there is a time pressure to to know whether or not it's committed >> to know when it's committed by by when >> in order so that what we present to um to Greg among others, >> okay, for that >> your behalf >> that he can honestly look you in the eye and say the whole of the funded package is credibly committed. >> Okay. >> It's like an ora situation, isn't it? It's like, >> okay, I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Okay, Bob. >> Yeah. with the GMP. Um, how how until when is that valid now? That the price that you've gotten, what's the period? >> Ah, good question. I have to look at Seth Lawrence's contract. Seth Lawrence Lavvice's contract. Um, the end date is supposed to be October 2026. Um, but that's not the question you're asking. How how long are all those prices good? >> I'm looking >> typical practice is they're good for 30 days, but I haven't handled all the intermediate paperwork. >> Okay, that's it just sort of goes to to the question of timing and and also you know the possibility of it increasing further on. And then I think in one of your other slide one of your slides you had um I think it was around 52,000 that's the new contingency level. >> Okay. Um so um that would presumably be for things outside of the construction. That correct? That that's what >> that's for any bad thing that well on the contractor right builders themselves their bottom line number has their own contingency in it. That's our contingency. That's the so-called owner's contingency or project contingency. So any unexpected expense between now and the end, that's the 50,000 that would be tapped. But it but it's part of the formally submitted budget. So uh the Boston lender who's giving us the bridge loan for construction um insisted that the contingency be not less than that. >> Okay. But that's separate from if there's a guaranteed maximum price, >> right? The guaranteed maximum price is what we will pay the contractor at the end, >> right? >> And that >> but then contingency would be other things >> any unexpected things that happen as we go along. >> Okay. Um and I'm just wondering um I take Paul's point uh very well and and also [cough and clears throat] excuse me um you know do support the project and want it to succeed. Um, is there a possibility, this is maybe a question for Greg or Gusto Stone as to whether we could have something where we'd say, okay, we would u, you know, be willing to kick in the 30,000 if ACLT is unable to raise that amount by whatever date it is that they're um, you know, the the important deadline date is. Um, I don't know whether that is doable, feasible, whether it satisfies the credible guarantee of funding or not, but just something I'm sort of running running around in my head. >> You want to respond to that, Linda, from your end? just I I um I think I understand the suggestion and I'm grateful for your making it, which is that you could attach a condition that you're willing to put that much more in if it's actually needed to maintain the integrity of the project. Basically, add to our contingency fund. Um >> that's the intent. Yeah. the same conditions that that will get spent only if the project's in danger without it. >> Okay. Um, Carla, >> um, I don't know that I have anything unique to add at this point because I think everyone's kind of, um, I raised my hand originally when I was kind of thinking along the lines of what Paul was saying and that, um, it sounded like the fundraising had gone better than expected and I was just questioning as to what, you know, whether it was our role in this position to um to cover the difference because it sounded like the 30,000 at that point if if the um trust was that the um ACLT was able to you know raise over 100,000 in that short amount of time. It seemed like 30,000 more wasn't insurmountable. So again, I think I'm just going to again echoing what a lot of people said is that I'm supportive of the project. You know, I voted originally to support it. I just wasn't sure that it was our role in this particular case to cover what I don't even think sounds like $30,000 gap anymore. It sounds like things have even changed since the original ask. So, um All right. Thanks. >> My my question, I guess, Linda, is I I I understood the the the wrinkle around the 70 versus the 80 and um and having buyers that don't have to really squeeze themselves. Um but putting that issue um on ice for a second if you focus on the 80 on 80% AMI and you plan to price accordingly then what would be the gap or would there be a gap? >> There wouldn't be a gap. >> There would be a gap >> if we the pricing now the proforma gives a projected income at the time of sale of units. >> Yeah. Um, and that's in the resources column. It's I think it's 726,000. I don't without it open in front of me. Sometimes I misquote the numbers, but it's in that range. Certainly that's based on running the algorithm uh that the state requires that that generated where all kinds of things have to get added in and then you add in whatever is the current mortgage interest rate and it it tells you then what fraction of payment monthly payment the family can afford and as a function of what the price of the house is. Um, so you you can't really price the houses at 80. Then you're looking at an impossibly narrow. Then people have to be making exactly 80% because if they're making more, they're not eligible. If they're making less, they won't get a mortgage. Um, so the uh you want that range to be as broad as possible. Typic in the presentation you saw earlier about the other project, the units were divided according to the percent AMI they would serve. That doesn't mean that the units will be priced at at that range. They've got to be priced lower or they're going to run into the same thing that a tiny fraction of the people will make exactly the right amount amount of money. >> Those are rentals though. So, >> well, the same thing applies. It still has to be priced. >> Yeah. So, there's a little room to maneuver because everybody's situation is slightly different. >> Yeah. I mean presumably the attractiveness of the location is gonna and the the desperation of um people for housing is going to solve that problem. I guess the question I have is when we originally gave the 300 you were you were planning it for 80%. Right. >> We were we never priced at 80%. If you actually I don't remember if the question came up at the time it will be advertised as available to persons earning not more than 80%. Uh but priced so that it's affordable at 70. That distinction is rarely made in public presentations but since we're looking at small budget it has to be made. >> It determines what we can realistically plan on the income side. And you have to leave yourself some flexibility too because that number varies with the interest rate. Who knows what the interest is going to be by the time and then once it's advertised once the prices are advertised then you have to stick to them. Um so who knows in in order to allow the the marketers to actually collect up a group of people and there are statemandated periods that the advertising has to be out there. >> Yeah. sort of around a November time frame, we're going to have to advertise the actual prices and then we're locked into them regardless of if the interest soarses up a point and a half in the next months. >> So there's part of the contingency is about the unreliability of our assumptions on the income side. It might benefit us. Interest rates go down, our prices can go up. That'll be fat city. But the opposite can also happen. It can tank us. Thank you, Greg. >> Um, yeah, just weighing on with a regulatory angle. So, um, as Linda mentioned, um, 80 is is the ceiling is not to exceed, right? But in fact, um, EUHLC, which is the state agency, um, uh, that in this case we're not partnering with for funds, but we're partnering with for, um, a permanent affordability covenant, um, as well as, um, um, you know, sort of just additional oversight of the marketing and whatnot. So, they're going to require, and I guess for for credit for the town's affordable housing, uh, subsidized housing inventory as well. So they're going to require a marketing plan that has at least a 10% window. So the price they want to see is 70%. Um so the statutory the minimum statutory window here is is 70 to 80%. So the prices right now in proformer peg 70. Um and um to to get everything down to uh 65 we calculated would be around $59,000. Now >> at the juncture of pricing it could land at 67. it can land 68, you know. I mean, there's no round numbers here. Um, but once they announced the price, they had to stay with that. >> What's the interest rate on the proformer? >> Um, right now it's around I mean on the the mortgages, uh, I believe they're around 6.7 uh 6.75, I think. >> And you know, that's unknowable, you know. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I mean, just kind of thinking out loud, I have, you know, two very opposite thoughts. on one hand um that between the time the uh request to us was planned and now you've had great luck fundraising. That's on one side and on the other side that it's hard, you know, it's easy to imagine that uh there are going to be new needs along the way to finish this project and and those kind of go in cut in in opposite directions. Um, so I'm I'm uh and I and I hear I hear the comments everyone's made. Um, and so um, you know, this is a this is a a harder um a harder to reason through than than your first visit to us. Um, and so I'll I'll just pause there as I as I think out loud. Other comments, uh, reactions? anyone who wants to think out loud like I just did I heard you um so I in terms of kind of variations on the request as presented I've heard two variations one was suggested by you Linda that um our uh commitment could be contingent on uh listing the units at a 70% pricing. >> Um and I also heard the suggestion coming from Bob of um basically um committing to a contingency fund so so to speak. So those are two variations on on the request that I've heard um in our conversation so far. I wonder um as the Yeah, I was I was going to see if you had further comments, Paul. Thank you for uh raising your hand. >> Yeah, I mean I mean it's it's it's you know it's it's a relatively small number, right? $6,000 a unit. So it's not we're not talking about So I think it's I I feel like the trust um I mean the town's really stepped up for this project and you know the trust I don't know how much money You haven't you haven't told us how much money you have like if this would drain your account or if >> Well, we we we we we're still >> not I mean I'm sorry ACT. Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. And so and so I think you know you know we I think Greg had asked for that number. Um so I think if you have I don't know what your reserves are. Maybe you have mammoth amounts. I don't know. But and I think the fundraising capacity with this coming into the end of the fis the calendar year is going to be pretty attractive. Um, and so, um, I'm I'm not going to support this request, but I but the trusted, you know, obviously that's I'm not I'm not going to make a motion, but someone else could. >> I can make a a brief comment about the ACLT reserves. I don't remember the number exactly, but it did come up in the last board meeting um around a different issue, which is whether we could afford to give our staff member a raise. But um one of the things the trust had said for a long time that it wants to do but not yet earmarked any money for is set up um a reserve that will be earmarked for um unexpected large expenses from our homeowners. Part of the ground lease the homeowner takes responsibility uh for the maintenance of the land as well as the home. Um, so if a tree falls on the roof and they're underinsured, that's well, they're not supposed to be underinsured. The bank takes care of that. But, um, they there have been a couple of instances where neighbors tree destroyed a fence and it was a problem for the homeowner. We came up with a short-term loan. Um, we we'd like to expand that as we expand the number of homeowners, and it's been there conceptually. uh while we had uncommitted reserve, but when we made the commitment as big as it was initially to this project and and it's a week from today, it's going to be actually gone from our bank account. No longer a matter of conjecture because it's part of of the costs of the acquisition, the first 100,000. the um that um the the actual reserve I'm going to say is 10 plus or minus 5,000 of our committed resources. Now setting aside the commitment to have money in hand before we continue the employment staff member. Um you're right about the fundraising as as I said already. I've been astonished at the response of the community when we ask well we we've given this uh matter I think a lot of consideration and so we should um uh see if we have a motion one way or another. Um, uh, yeah, I'm struggling with this one. Um, you know, on the one hand, um, it's a fairly minor amount of money that's being asked for. Um, and I think we have the funds in the housing trusts [clears throat] accounts. Uh but on the other hand, um it does seem like fundraising is is is quite likely to be able to to close the gap. Um I guess what I'm struggling with is I would hate to, you know, have inaction on our part on this this particular thing, you know, cause the project to fall apart or a huge delay or something like that. And I don't have a strong sense of how much it would be in jeopardy if um if we don't approve this request. Um so I'm I'm just struggling to come up with you know I was thinking of well could it be to the contingency fund or could it be something that you know if you're able to fund raise that amount uh if we commit to that fund then it gets returned to us if we pay it and you raise enough money. Um but it's all kind of convoluted. So, um I'm just thinking out loud and struggling with with what to um what to vote on. >> Um so, I guess back to HJ's question about the timing. I guess what it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, Linda, but that to close next week, all you have to do is say that instead of um going from 100 to 110, you go from 100 to 140 and you have the funds. It's just that in order to pay your staff person next year, you're going to have to raise money. Do I have that right? >> How did you get from 100 to 140? Then >> because I'm saying with the with the cash in your account, it's committed, but it's committed for a salary next year. >> Yeah. >> Um, so you could you could sol you could close with the funds that you have. >> Isn't that right? >> Yes. But the reason that I was a little bit hesitant there, I should probably let Greg answer this. Um, he's he's been responsible for being the one that has to tell you that we've met the conditions that you established earlier for having u no substantial funder wants to have to put their money in and then later have the project collapse. So all the substantial funders the town is the most single largest single substantial supporter here. The second is the local enterprise assistance fund which is the nonprofit lender in Boston that's putting up the bridge loan. >> Yeah. >> Both of those entities are adamant that the whole funding stack has to be in place before they release that money. >> Right. No, >> Greg is going to have to look at our bank account. and decide that that commitment is valid, that we're credibly able to proceed so that he can credibly >> 300,000 we need to go ahead with acquisition. >> Right. But what I'm what I'm just trying to clarify is that you can credibly say that you'll go from 110 to 140 because you have the cash and you can come back to us in February and say we've run out of money to pay our staff person. Can you help us? >> Is that right? No, it would be later than that. We for sure have him for a year. We don't the >> we made to him that we wouldn't leave him with only >> So the alternative to Bob's request is just to say uh you know we we'll we'll we'll we'll be receptive if you have a cash crunch in in a year >> and and then that does that solve your analysis, Greg? Um, so I mean this is maybe a side note. We we wouldn't be in a position to fund operating costs for ACLT. Our funds would need to be project based. Now perhaps there'd be a way to fund. >> We have more than 30. We have more than 30 that we could apply to operating costs. Right now >> um I mean I think generally I don't know that we've we we've we've done staff costs. we've done. So that that but that's that's a question down the line. I think perhaps >> you know if I if I may just throw out a potential way to think about it. Um one way to fort to relate to ACLT is to anticipate the juncture at sale um and evaluate the project uh you know when it's when it's complete. um when we'll know more about interest rates, [clears throat] >> um uh new income pricing that will take have taken effect. Um as well as kind of just what the sales environment looks like overall and perhaps how critical that spread from from uh 70 down to 65 uh might might be at that time. Um it's it's hard to have sighteline from here into precisely what that you know how much of a crunch that is. we would know at that point um you know or at least m much closer to knowing right if we're a few months away rather than 18 months away um so that might be a way to sort of stand by uh with some funds um strategically I don't know uh I I I don't know if I can say that we can put money into just AMA operating >> sure account you know like yeah >> I understood I mean and when when is when is the I mean I'm surprised that you're going to be able to market as soon as November. You haven't even started construction >> 27, right? >> Oh, November 27. >> No, no, no. November. Um, we hope to have families in place a year from now, >> right? >> I had hoped to have them in place to start school. >> That's not what we heard, but okay. [laughter] when we delayed the um well I sometimes say 27 when I mean 26 the the construction will start uh very soon after the um closing a week from today um in fact part of the securing of the property Seth has promised to put up his chain link fence virtually instantly even though he won't actually have crews doing work but to define the property identify it as secured. he intends to do promptly and we hope to be marketing um oh I can't remember the exact conditions in the marketer's quote but um he will need to know the prices at which it's going to be offered uh well in advance of actual sale and move in. I Um, I think I'll just leave it at that. I was going to make an observation about possible ways forward. I Oh, I know what it was. Um, it's not only the town that has held us to the condition that the whole funding stack has to be in place before any funds get released. That's also the condition of our construction lender. >> Yes. that has to so whatever you decide if if you're generous enough to make a commitment um that can be drawn down if it's needed um it has to satisfy leaf that that's um that's a credible commitment by her standards that it's not something we'd have to apply again for competitively for example um I if if I and just put my own opinion in here. I think that um the biggest danger that we face at this point faces the economy as a whole. This is certainly the most uncertain economy in the United States in my lifetime and I suspect there were I wasn't around for the Great Depression, but I was raised by parents who were. Um I think it's very difficult to predict uh what's going to happen between the level of peculiar stuff going on in decision making, the profit taking by interests who shouldn't have their hand in the tilt, uh the the use of tariffs as a device of punitive diplomacy. Uh it it's just very difficult to predict sort of without what looks like a major upheaval, we could have a rise in interest rates that knocks our income projection into a town. Understood. Um I I hear you, Linda, and I I would want all the cushion I could have as well. Um what I what I um the the way the conversation's gone, it seems that the question is just how much cushion you want to have in your own accounts. >> Yeah. >> And it's not about closing and it's not even about the proforma. And and so I I um in in light of that analysis, you know, Paul's Paul's comments have have force and um and and I know that Trust would like to uh continue to be a supporter and make things possible. Um, but it it's it sounds like we're not actually critical to make, you know, this this $30,000 request is actually not critical to make this project possible. >> That's correct. >> And um and and I and I know that the membership um is going to be receptive when we are >> and and and there are several junctures ahead where where that could come to be. That's right. >> Um, and so I I wonder if if you if unless someone wants to move um uh to um to approve the request, I wonder if you want to withdraw the request. That's an interesting thought. Um, can I just make sure that I understand the sentiment I'm hearing about the kind of position AMAT would likely take if for example interest rates not 50 or 60 or $100,000 off our income from sales. Would that be an appropriate time to come back in? Um I I'd like to hear um the the membership, but speaking for myself, um I um I when at at the at at when at the margin we are what makes the difference in affordability, we are activated is how I understand our mission. Um and so uh that's just speaking for myself. I I would encourage um my my fellow members to to respond to Linda's question. >> Uh HJ, please. >> Yeah, I I'll kind of similar to how I approached the footing decision last time we had a conversation, Linda. >> It's it's it's the the use of the money and how it basically affects our ability to do our overall mission. Like I I think that that's that's the reason why they're shaking us on the decision, not necessarily on the merits of like what you're trying to do or the projects or anything like that. To me, it's just an order of operations and and timing. >> Um which is why I asked, are we actually time pressured to make this $30,000 decision now? >> And and people really, you know, caught up to that. That's really all it is. >> Interest rates. I I agree with you. all the news that we we hear the same news. We all are aware this this whole situation is not only uncertain, it kind of frankly sucks >> for all all things that we do. So, we're with you there. We're just having a hard time making a decision. And unfortunately, I it you know, in my professional life, anytime something like this happens, it just gets punted. And I I I have a feeling that this is kind of where a lot of us feel most comfortable uh because of a potential uh inability to serve the overall mission. Now >> push comes to shove if you need me to make a decision today. Yeah. I I mean I I I I have enough evidence probably to make a decision and not regret the risks that we're going to be taking one way or another, >> but I don't know if this is a decision I'd like to make today. If if if that makes sense. >> Any anyone else want to share your your thoughts about Linda's question, which is, you know, you're talking about interest rates. I'm thinking about Canadian lumber. Um, uh, you know, I guess you have such a contract that Canadian lumber is not going to affect things. But that's >> Yeah, I'd forgotten about Canadian lumber. I'm not keeping up. >> It was weeks ago that Seth said he didn't think any critical materials would be affected by the tariff force before we had the current exchange with Canada. >> Yeah. You can't use hockey sticks to demark the area either. So, Um >> yeah to your question um you know coming back at a later I think there are any number of of legitimate >> shifts and surprises that could happen where you know we could certainly entertain whether we could approve or not is not >> uh not something we can say but certainly could entertain a request to keep the project alive. I think that's I think we support the project. We want it to go ahead. um if you were coming to us now and saying if we don't approve this uh we're not going to be able to close next week, >> I think we would take a different course of action. But it seems like um that's not the case. Um so, you know, I would say we're >> we are and we'll still be receptive to trying to to make this succeed. Um but I'm with EJ. Uh, not a decision I'd like to make right now unless we have to. >> Yeah. Well, I'm going a little bit out on a limb here. I wouldn't usually make such a decision without checking with my board, but we do need to make decisions and move ahead. So I am prepared to withdraw the request um with the understanding that um I would be welcome to come back um if circumstances change in such a way that completing the the project with some reasonable semblance of our original design actually seemed at risk. And particularly um if if uh it became difficult to generate a robust pool of applicants because the window was so narrow, that would be another motivation that might bring me back to say we need enough money to repric at a more affordable level. And um we I mean I envision you coming back to us many times um and and because you're getting all kinds of great projects >> and I think that the the the trust is going to it's better best for our relationship if if you really you you really need us when you come to us and and we can help you do lots of projects and um and so I I uh I I think that that that would be a great way um to see what's happening >> right so with that mutual understanding I will withdraw the request >> okay um well thank you for rolling with uh with the with the punches in the conversation Linda um we really want to see this project go up and uh we will get you on the agenda within you know a week or two whenever you you need to bring something to us. >> Actually, I'd like to take you up on the promise of an invitation to come back. I I had a conversation with Greg about this and he urged me not to muddy the waters by um telling you about any of our other projects tonight. Um but I would like to come back um with the uh aim of just helping you understand the full scope of the things we're presently working on. 174 AMD is the most visible. Uh but over the time period that we put five families in 174 um AMD sort of from the beginning of when it uh was brought to us as an offer from the owners to give us a way below market price if we use it for affordable housing. That would be in fall of 2024. um that um over that interval we will have met more than half of the goal in your strategic plan of the number of home ownerships to add over five years. Uh I I being a betting person myself, I would bet we can single-handedly meet that goal that we will we will have 20 families in place over the five over your five-year plan to put 20 families in ownership. They won't all be new construction, but they'll be homes that would otherwise have been unaffordable. >> We We would love We would love to help you succeed and be able to say we helped you succeed. >> I'd like to just put some flesh on those bones. So, I will I will ask for a place in your perhaps you don't have a whole evening full of pressing matters. >> Well, wonderful. We look forward to it. >> Debate on the whole spectrum of projects currently in motion. Well, thank you so much. We're I'm looking forward to to seeing what else you guys have in in store because you are our secret weapon for meeting our strategic goal to to having home ownership that is affordable. >> Good. Keep thinking those thoughts. >> Okay. Thank you, Linda. >> All right. Good night. >> Good night. >> Um All right. Well, you know, I I um I I have uh I have been praised for keeping our meetings to 9:00. Um we we we um uh the the one additional item that we wanted to discuss tonight is the initiative that uh Greg uh Paul Bob and I have been pursuing with respect to the promotion of of ADUs. Um, and I guess the simplest way to get to that issue would be to ask if any of you were able to review the draft editorial that that we put into the um into the package and if you have any comments because the purpose of the editorial is to try to reach out to the community, say we want to help you and Um and uh so I think it kind of encapsulates what we're aiming for and um we so if anyone has any comments immediately um would love to hear them. Um I I'm also uh would be um quite uh we can also do this asynchronously if folks would like to take a look at that and send us comments by email. We could recirculate a revised draft that incorporates people's feedback before we would send it to the Gazette or anywhere else. speak up. I'm pretty sure. >> Yes, please, CJ. Yeah. No, I Yeah, by all means, if if we can enable offline comment, I I promise to get to it. I I I'm not ready for a discussion. >> Yeah. Okay. Um I I'm I'm I'm I I I I think this is something that lends itself to to an asynchronous process if um but if anyone has any comments immediately um we do have a little time for that. Um so are folks willing to kind of take a little ball please. Thank you. >> Yeah, no comments. Um I honestly haven't read it but I will. Um but I I encourage people if they do have comments to send them directly to Greg um and then not to everybody because that's outside deliberations type things. >> Yes. Good. So um uh Greg, why don't we kind of resend just the the draft editorial and the draft survey? And if if if it's Monday, can we um can we get um maybe by um end of Thursday. Would that be if reasonable? I mean, if if you can if you can look at it, that would be great. And and u so we could maybe try to move on something by the end of the week. The other thing I will say is that our our idea is to also um line up a few ADUs that are being built and invite community members to have do little site visits. Greg has a prospect. Greg, I didn't tell you. I have someone else who um uh Adrien Fabos um is is kind of just put one up very affordably. Um less than 300,000 built and um modular home that he put in sight. Uh three-bedroom ranch. Um and he would be open to um I I own his parents' house where he grew up. Um and uh he happens to be Dylan Maxfield's landlord, so I saw him the other day. Um and uh so we've got maybe two thing two site visits lined up. So the idea is really to kind of show the community what it what it is to build an ADU and um or organize the resources that already exist and show our willingness to try to help people get it together and maybe also give grants to make uh rentals affordable. That's the kind of agenda. Um, so if there are uh can I get a kind of a nod to the idea of looking at things over the next few days? Okay. Um, then we'll proceed accordingly. And uh, are there any items um, not anticipated on the agenda that that anyone would like to raise? Have you seen something in the news or anything else that you'd like to point out? All right. Well, we we uh we did some good work this evening. Um I appreciate the feedback that you may have because I think this is an example of us trying to create opportunities instead of just being receptive to them. Um >> please go ahead. >> Just crossing tees here. Uh if we could just sort of see if anybody remaining in the audience uh wants to make public comment. Um >> thank you. Mora or Kathleen, do you wanna um share anything? All right. Um well, uh having crossed the >> Sorry, I've got I've got Mora here. Can I Can I just go ahead? >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Minute. I just wanted to I meant to I had my hand up during when you were talking about the ACLT project and I just wanted to say I am on the board for ACLT and when that $30,000 was asked for was when we were going over the project and realized we didn't have the money like three weeks ago. and the fact that the fundraising was so successful, it was still you guys hadn't had a meeting, so it was still on the agenda. But I'm saying that the fundraising letter we sent out was really a panic letter. And I don't think, you know, people just like dug into their pockets. I know I did. I really extended what I would usually give. And I don't know that you can count on that um coming in in the coming year, but as long as you guys are open to hearing in case unexpected things uh crop up, hearing from us again, that's fine because we don't. >> Absolutely. >> We thought we did, but we don't. >> Absolutely. I um Yeah, we we you know, we don't want to be the we don't want to create a boy who cried wolf situation. We want to be there when you really need us. >> Okay. Thank you so much. >> Yeah. >> Well, having uh dotted the eyes and crossed the tees, uh I think this concludes our first meeting with our new membership. Wonderful to have you, Een and Mayan, and excited to get you involved. And uh he and Carla uh if you see projects you want to get involved in, please let Gregor me know. And we'll uh look forward to a very productive 26 27 year. Thank you. Have a good night. >> Thanks. Have a good one. >> Thanks.