ALT Scotland: Online Conference May 2026

What I thought I'd do first, is is just have a chat and actually let you add things to because I'm I'm I'm really aware. I sit outside the both the college and the university worlds just now. I mean, I'm still doing a take and and wondering about doing interesting things. But a lot a lot of what I'm putting up on the the Scotland update are things I'm observing going on and you a lot of you guys are much closer to the I'll use talk face. That's a very old-fashioned term. But you're much closer to the action than than I am now. Uh So it might be worth having a look at that first Padlet and I'll rattle through. I'll start off by doing a kind of all update and then we can have a look at some of the other things. So I'm going to I'll share my screen. >> [clears throat] >> We here and I'll go might as well do it of course. Right, good at this. We here. We here. It's on the screen. This is where I'm all fingers and thumbs. I'm sharing well, sharing my screen. Stick that over there. Okay, so I'll start with with a kind of all update. And you can all edit this. So if again, if there's something if there's something that I've I've missed, you think gosh, Joe's just completely missed this item, then please just add it in cuz what we'll do is we'll rebroadcast it and I'll push it down to all UK when we're finished and publish So all all headlines is much exciting excitement building around the we are 26 which will be at the OU in Milton Keynes. Closer to the pixels. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, right Phil. But Lots of excitement around OER 26. It's great that it's at the OU in Milton Keynes and and again from the committee people I've spoken to that's been good and it looks good in terms of getting numbers and doing all these kind of things and keep open education on the on on the agenda. You will have noticed too that OER the OU has a partnership with the digital learning institute and the digital learning institute is offering qualifications around AI and for educators. I've not been I've not been much involved in that partnership other than being informed that it's it's going forward. But it is quite interesting. I I I do know some of the folk involved the digital digital learning institute and I know them all of old from other other developments that came out of Ireland probably in the probably round about 2014 or 2013 cuz I was in I was involved in in in getting some of some of the earlier institutes set up. There was a digital analytics institute they set up or digital marketing institute was called and when I was at the HQA I helped them get things credited and leveled and various other things because they wanted [clears throat] to export into Europe and at that point at that point the Irish equivalent of HQA was in meltdown. So so I helped I helped them roll a product out and I can see it's still some of the same people involved >> [snorts] >> and they're a good crowd. So I'll be I'll I'm interested to see how how that sort of partnership goes. Amplify FE I'm kind of directly involved in. ALT got a whole lot of money from the UFI trust to reach into further education across the UK and do basically share share the love of all the good things that ALT has got with FE colleges and they got funding for 3 years and that funding's now come to an end and what we're now doing with Amplify FE is turning it Well, hi Keith. I can't see who's coming in and that and that that funding that funding is now come to an end and what we do with Amplify Amplify FE is we're turning it into an ALT community of practice and there'll be a program and things coming coming out from September for that. But but things like the newsletter and various other social media things will keep going. Interestingly, Amplify FE has got like 2 and 1/2 thousand followers and things from across the UK further education colleges which is actually it's been it's been a real achievement. So there's been a lot of capacity built and and now ALT are going to keep taking it on. There was a development officer that was paid full-time through uh through the UFI funding and and thankfully ALT is keeping her on to do a couple of days a a week to keep this keep keep it moving moving forward. And I see Keith's arrived. The other thing that's happening in the background is that CMALT is being updated and and there'll be information on that coming out in due course. Keith, anything else you want to add in terms of ALT headlines? Thanks Joe. Apologies for being a wee bit late. I was back from leave the other day and I looked at the email for for today's meeting and thought you sent round the the the link to the meeting. Didn't realize I had to register. So apologies. Um have you I mean um have you covered OER? Yeah, you did it first. Yeah, yeah. Probably not then. I think that's that's probably the the main things for the moment. Um maybe just to say that colleagues might be aware that we've recently expanded the um uh board of trustees and we'll be looking to do so further going forward. Um and Joe's obviously now joined us along with some other colleagues. Um uh and we'll be having um uh yeah, further trustee appointments by election um later this year. So that's maybe something that colleagues can just look out for and maybe help spread the word when that comes. But no, I think apart from that Joe, if if OER has been covered, that's probably everything, I think. Well, so that was the all headlines and what what I did what I did kind of cheekily and this is what I was saying probably probably more round my my priorities and and things I'm I'm focused on. I put a few other links up around digital skills and communities AI open education and some some some other links and I'll probably just chat you chat you through some of these things cuz I think they're all they're all worth having on your radar, I think and if it's not directly related to you, it's probably worth taking back to your to your respective institutions. Uh So I'll start with digital skills and and communities. Uh I've I [clears throat] joined the data lab and and worked around the data lab when the data lab started and data lab is now moved into doing a whole lot of work with the Scottish [snorts] AI Alliance. So the Scottish AI Alliance AI Alliance is like almost like a subset of the the data lab. So it's been quite interesting to seeing all all of that developing. On on the strength of that I've been invited. I didn't put a link to it cuz I thought it would be egotistical, but I've been invited to speak at a couple of things at Holyrood events in in June with the HQA around some of the work I did there uh on on AI and assessment and AI and and and HQA kind of policy. >> [snorts] >> But if you haven't signed up again, the data lab community there, it's now got a dedicated education community. There's there's probably about a thousand a thousand people in the AI community AI education community alone. I don't know. I haven't looked. There's a whole lot of other data and various other communities that aren't aren't as relevant to me. So I haven't signed up for them. But just in the in the education community alone, there's probably about a thousand sign-ups now. The data lab and the Scottish AI Alliance is international. So as well as all being lots of Scottish people, people I recognize it's actually a big international following and it's it's a well-developed well-developed site and there's actually over quite useful workshops and things that come come out from them. A lot of them free and online. Some of them they're they're running a I think I put it down. Maybe I didn't. They're running they're running a they're running a big event in June and they've got a they've got the Wikipedia founder and things coming coming over to that. I'm not going to that because it's a 250 or 260 pounds for a a day a day ticket. But the online community is worth joining. College development network put out a digital a digital uh digital skills in colleges report authored actually by a an old colleague of mine Walter Patterson who is a former HMIe. It's actually a really good good good but depressing read. There lots of things lots of things I always think should have moved on by now still still haven't moved still haven't moved on. There's still lack of sharing most of digital skills all all of these things. If if anything, it's a it's a sort of a sort of plea to the system to have a bit more of a focus on on on on both teaching and admin staff digital digital skills. >> [snorts] >> A bit more tangentially I was reached out to by this by is a head teacher up is a head teacher up in the Highlands somewhere. And he set up an AI collaborative for teachers and educators. So that that that it's another another community but for practitioners. Uh and and it's I think it's probably worth just knowing that they're on the radar. With with my old hat on, what what I'm I'm I'm part of the community but with my old hat hat on, I'm hoping I can I can steer some of these teachers that are interested in AI and things towards towards old basically. Uh but it's it's a really good initiative. And again, I think Stuart has got something like three or 400 teachers across Scotland who are who've got an interest in in in sharing practice around AI in education. He's already got that all moving which is remarkable because it's all it's all he's doing it all all of his own back. It's all all free. Uh I don't know I'll pause for a minute there. I don't know if anybody else has got anything. I've got I've got under other under under other I've included that data face global link to that paid for event in Edinburgh. But has anybody got anything else to add under digital skills and communities? Is there any anything else that's been bubbling about in the last in the last 3 months that we might add to It's okay. It's not compulsory. I'm just in just in case you had nothing springing to mind specifically. Well, that's perfect. That that's great. So I'll just rattle down the next the next column. And it's great Louise is here. I I I >> [clears throat] >> I headed a column just specifically AI. And and I think and it actually would be quite good to pick Louise's brain which is here as well. Some of the things that are happening across the UK seem a bit contradictory. Just a wee bit contradictory. So the work of SKATING I think is is fantastic and it's amazing. It's really really useful. And and the the the reach you now have across universities and colleges is fantastic. And again in the background I've been helping a wee bit just bulk up the the college engagement suggesting names and things to get more colleges involved. Uh and what I hope I've got there is the two sort of principal links. The links to SKATING itself and and and and the how well connected it is now across further and higher education in Scotland. And a link to the kind of latest paper on generative AI tools in in higher education. >> [snorts] >> And it's just great work. It's really really good. The bit though I'm still picking up and colleagues I don't know about you. Uh but but basically I'm seeing AI everywhere. And again it might just be it might just be that bit of you being haunted by it. But uh but in the world I'm moving in I'm meeting academic bid writers and teachers and various other and lecturers and all who are all using AI like mad. They're I mean they really are. I mean and they're they're using it to write bids. They they're using it to mark uh mark students' work. Uh they're using it they're using it across the whole things that you would think oh you need to be a bit careful with that with using it that way. But but it that's what's happening. And at the same time in in the business community in Glasgow uh in the business community in Glasgow Glasgow's dominated by about at the moment lots of graduates are going and working for the the banks in Glasgow. There's two or three big banks. They're about to lay off lots of people. They're about to lay off lots of people because everybody inside the banks using AI. Uh you know and I I may again at a dinner party I met a an accountant for a big big Scottish insurance company who's my age and I was saying have you not retired yet? And he went no they all call me grandpa. But I still enjoy my work. He does project work inside the big Scottish insurance company. He told me how much all the all the young things are all doing vibe coding and doing various other things to speed up everything and and how unbelievable it is and all these kind of things. So it's just it's that bit of again it might just be me but but I'm seeing all these things everywhere. And and what I highlighted I've got the SKATING stuff which I think is really good and measured and ethical and taking the right approach. But but but then you read the I don't know if you've seen the HE report on student generative artificial intelligence which kind of doesn't quite contradict but where is SKATING says people taking a measured very cautious kind of approach HE HE does reflect that kind of everybody's doing it. And and we need we need more safeguards and more training. So so there's wee bits there. There's also again from from Edinburgh but also from the center for teaching excellence. The center for teaching excellence is Glasgow University based but increasingly is using hubs. So so back to the data lab and the Scottish AI Alliance the Scottish center for teaching excellence is sensibly using the Edinburgh expertise to push out some really good really good support materials for teachers around AI. Uh here and I'll kind of stop there. There's a couple of other links there. I don't know if you've come across Leon Furze's is is work but normally I kind of ignore him cuz he's he's he's a bit too headline seeking. But but the paper there on resistance training toolkit kit chimed with me because it is about that very cautious approach to when and how to use AI and sensible exercises for your students so they can see they can see ethical challenges and biases and hallucination and all of these things. Some interesting exercises you could do with students there. Uh [snorts] Youthlink Scotland it's happening everywhere. Youthlink Scotland's published a a good a good guide for young people around learners and ethics of for AI. And I'll stop there. The English schools have got staff. I'm going to I'm going to Again for colleges uh most colleges use Microsoft Copilot have access to Microsoft Copilot. Don't though have don't though yet have access to the the tools that could create and build local agents because IT departments are are terrified of of opening up things to to any staff admin staff or academic staff. Uh and I put that in as a guide because there's actually we need to if we're going to use Copilot which we've got licenses for it's closed. It doesn't cost any more money. It's not going to it's not the tokenization and all these kind of arguments that if they switch it on it's going to it's going to cost the college more money or the university more money isn't true. Uh so there's some technical stuff in there about about how you would how if you did have Copilot which they'll do how you how you how you how you could make how you could make greater use of Copilot and local agents and things. Uh So so there's a raft of things there but but because we've got we've got Louise Louise do you want to just say a few words about where where SKATING is? Yep. Happy to. Um so um just to to catch up. So SKATING was formed 3 years ago kind of organically and we've moved into a little bit more of a formal structure with a committee and membership. And initially it started out within with higher education institutions but we've been slowly but surely inviting in colleagues in in colleges as well. So we haven't quite got full representation across all of the colleges yet but thanks with your help Joe we are getting getting better representation including people on the committee as well who are who are representing FE. So that's very helpful. Um just in in relation to I suppose some of the the network activities one of the things that we're currently planning I'll talk about three things. I'll talk about the the research report in particular and where that kind of sits in the in the overall thing. The other two things is just in relation to some of some kind of things that we're working on in in the background. We are as a network working around bringing together what we're all doing around training for for generative AI particularly both staff and students across universities. So we're we're kind of getting together in I think in in June to to kind of consolidate that and maybe develop something that we can share and that certainly will be a an open education resource when we do. Um the other thing that we are doing is we're we're working towards having a a symposium day probably around September time. And we'll be inviting people to to to come along and join that. We don't have a location yet or anything like that. We've no funding. So it's all a little bit too strict. But it's a very active network. We've got consistently have you know 25 30 people attending our monthly meetings which are open kind of sharing practice meetings. In relation to to the research and you're absolutely right Joe that it's actually there's there's lots of conflicting stuff coming through and I think what came through So, we ran a survey where with with funding from Advanced HE in 2024, then in 2025 we got some uh funding from Carnegie to repeat that survey, but within Scotland, and we um and the the the the things that came through echoed some of the things like that have come through the happy reports, but with a little bit more nuance. And actually, if you want to there's there's a great post by um Michael Webb uh from Jisc that actually compares both surveys. Um and uh and I think some of it is around the wording of the questions and stuff because uh and also I would argue as well maybe happy has a little bit more of a boosterism aspect to it because it's funded by Cortex. So, uh you know, there's there's that and the AI company is funding it. So, um and I think what's happening and I think we ran some focus groups as well specifically with creative arts um um and creative industry students and staff last summer as well just to kind of see where that was because that's one of those industries that, you know, that that's changing very rapidly along with so many others, but the the position of the students and stuff is actually quite interesting. They're getting quite entrenched. They're getting quite anti anti-generative AI. Um whereas actually the staff are a little bit more knowledgeable about the reality of things that are happening. So, there's this real disconnect and this kind of polarization. I think that's where we call it that that there's a kind of groups of people that sort of 92% of students using AI, that big broad headline is not something we saw. We saw that breaking down into yeah, 92% maybe have engaged with it to some to some extent, but about a third of students don't want to engage with it and and and object to engaging with it. Whereas there'll be a third who maybe will will be very much kind of into into using generative AI, and then there's a third in the middle that's a little bit in between. And actually, that's replicated across staff. We we looked at staff and personal services as well as as well as academic staff. What we did find is that actually there's a kind of a a little bit of a backlash against stuff now, particularly about staff using it. So, students are much more um likely to say that staff should not be using it for certain things. Now, this really goes, you know, I mean, you know, I've been looking at the things like the the teachermatic pilot in Jisc, for example, and and how how that's working. And the I think some of it is around myth-busting. Some of it's about the messaging around certain things about what some of the tools are, what the responsible use might look like, and I think people are getting a little bit kind of polarized. And and then there's that disconnect, like you say, Joe, between actually what's happening out in practice. And what are we preparing our our our students and our graduates for. So, um so, I think there's there's a lot of kind of difference in there. What I would say is that just in relation to the kind of updating the link um we've got a very rudimentary website, as you'll see, but we've got the report that we brought out ourselves in relation to the more recent data is available on that link that I've just popped into the chat there. Um but yeah, it's a very vibrant network. Um I'd be happy to kind of talk to anybody in We've made a few kind of conversations with Data Lab, but we haven't quite made it to the point of of kind of having a proper meeting with them yet, I think. AI Alliance, we had conversations with them earlier on. Again, I think there were some changes there that we haven't quite caught up with with the recent people are. We've had conversations with SQA um QAA as well um Advanced HE uh Jisc Susan in and out as well um to us and the SFC. And the other thing actually that we did um we um we have had a version of our statement of principles, which, you know, you'll be aware of from last year. We've had a version of that adapted by University Scotland for sector-wide. So, that was um so, that um happened earlier this year, and uh that's kind of actually looking not just at learning and teaching. The network is looking at learning and teaching. So, it's not our remit. So, we worked with them to adapt it to kind of look at all Scottish university higher education activities that extend beyond just learning and teaching, and they've adapted a version of that, and we're just awaiting them to publish it on our website. So, we'll have some information about that going out through WonkHE and QAA as well as well as University of Scotland as well. So, we are getting that that out there, and we're also just flying the flag for for open education as well just to try to like help people understand what a Creative Commons license is. And actually, we've had um our we've also been reused as well by British Columbia government as well. So, they've got a website that they have um they have adapted part of our principles as well. So, um it's looking pretty good um and we've got institutions as well adapting it and colleges and bringing it into their their policies and so on. So, that's a nice piece of work that's in trend and it's now out in the wild, and and people are using it. That's a just a quick update from me. Thanks to you all. A brilliant update. A just before I'll bring in Dinçer in a minute. He's got a a question, but a what I'm hoping to do in in June we're having a more hybrid face-to-face at Stirling and online, and I've chatted to Rosemary. And if you have a think about maybe a, you know, a half-hour workshop or something, we'll bring it up because I'm also kind of aware that you it's a really good way of practice that you you've got named contacts in all the institutions, but probably doing something that brings your work to cuz some of your named contacts will keep it will keep their information on their jumper. So, so, so, so doing doing something, and then we can we can push out across across colleges and universities again with good So, there's a no men by and and I'm in contact with Rosemary about that, but we'll we'll do that. Dinçer, do you want to ask a question? You've got your hand up. Uh some question maybe, but also some comments shortly if it's possible. So, hello everyone. I'm Dinçer, uh learning technology manager uh from University of Edinburgh, and I'm working with Center for Open Learning and School of Education. I see some familiar faces here, Jason, uh Phil, Tracy. So, nice to see you. Um uh I met with um Sarah uh just on just to uh say to Louise. So, I I was in one of um her presentations in in a conference, so I met with her. And uh I learned that University of Edinburgh opted out to join this research project. So, there is no data from University of Edinburgh, right? Am I correct on that on uh you know, the um staff and student attitudes and perceptions uh research. Um Sarah um so, this is Sarah Preston from um Aberdeen um University Aberdeen. I'm not I'm not aware that uh Edinburgh actually opted out. So, there was there was various ways they may have not asked for the aggregated data for their own use. So, we offered that out. Aggregated data from individual institutions, we offered it that that anonymous data to give it back to institutions. So, it may be that. I think we had responses from from um staff and students across every single university in Scotland, but I can go back and check the data set uh for you. >> Yeah, as far as I know, so that was my discussion with Sarah. So, It may have been a publicity cuz we did ask people to publicize it internally as well. So, maybe I think we had difficulty finding the right to to do that within institutions. >> what I heard from Sarah is like University of Edinburgh said, you know, we have an ongoing discussion internally. So, at the moment we we won't participate or something like that. So, um that's what I heard. So, maybe you can double-check. I don't know. So, I think it was a bit unfortunate because it's like the biggest uh university in Scotland, and you don't have much data then, you know, um I think it was a kind of uh limitation. Um so, I think this topic is not much being discussed, I think, between staff or students. That's my observation openly. And I think this survey is great in terms of triggering that that discussion. Uh so, what I did is for Center for Open Learning, I convinced people to uh run this survey in the school. Uh so, in in 1 month we will um so, I I thanks to Sarah, she sent me the questions, and I just uh you know, put them in in in in a format. So, uh for just for staff, uh we'll use these um questions and um try to create a conversation around it. Um so, uh yeah, thank you for your efforts, but I think it's also difficult to like if each school tries to do these things on their own, create things, etc. So, I think it's not probably very efficient, but um so, what I try to say is uh there is a lot going on. Maybe there is different views, but we don't have much insight on how people approach this, how much they use. So, we we have mostly assumptions. So, from my point of view, I don't know how academic staff is using, how students are using. We don't have data. We don't have discussion. So, um yeah, it's it's a great initiative, I think, and yeah, if I have any results, I'm happy to share with you too. with the project. Thank you. Fantastic. And just so we do have an it's open data sets that we have, so you know, obviously that those will be made available. And I think you're absolutely right, Dincer. I think I think it's I think it there's a lack of confidence in both sides of of teaching staff having opening a conversation about how I use AI or how I how or how I don't use AI >> [snorts] >> and encouraging students to open up and have have these conversations. It's it it seems to be a lot of people's dirty secret just now. Uh you know, that that that that that that that's the that that that's the feeling I I get a wee bit. Uh there's also again Jisc have been doing a lot of good work uh again and I've updated some of their survey materials to to to reflect AI as well. Uh they've just I think [clears throat] it's just closed I think it closed yesterday. They were looking at the digital transformation framework and how how how it would be how it would how it should be updated. Uh >> [snorts] >> again if I push that round and I can see Kenji. Kenji, you've been running some excellent workshops I think for for further education staff. How's that been going? Uh sorry. Yeah. Um Yeah, we have been running um a lot of workshops and and talking with some of the the strategic teams about the application of AI. And we we've also contacted a few universities and done some work there just just to learn more about where some of our students are heading. Um A few things I suppose. Uh I I think I think in a lot of the surveys they miss the detail about how AI is used. And I I I agree with the comment about the happy survey. When you look at the actual question and the potential returns you get no idea of frequency or actual use or application. Um When we talk to businesses that come into the college that sometimes share their application of AI in the work it's it's really limited and it ties in with like the MIT studies that show that there's little practical change or improvements in productivity due to AI at the moment. People are still feeling their way. The majority of people who use AI genuinely just ask a questions in a Google-like sort of way. The the notion of putting your data sets in place and getting workflows where AI is actively whether as a as an agent or or in more some more prescriptive way >> [clears throat] >> and entering into workflows, that's really limited. There's a few pocket examples. Um and people are experimenting at the moment, but but nothing really that sophisticated. Um and in a way when we talk to to lecturing staff and and also professional services, we say like now is is is really the opportunity. Cuz pretty much most people are still trying to work out where it fits. Um and there's also the infrastructure question around how data's organized in your institution. Um I would say it's it's a it's a small minority that have data that is organized in such a way you can act upon it. Um that's that's a big thing. We are running these diagnostic sessions with strategic teams and talking through some of the staff perceptions of how AI is being impacted also digital more generally as well. And it's to complement it's designed to run against the digital elevation tool um from Jisc and really complements just their idea. But one of the significant issues and we did we did some work with University of Strathclyde as well is over the last 3 years since since AI kind of emerged and then you had those kind of initial knee-jerk reactions in in the beginning of 2023 all of the policy and guidance is been pretty negative. All the stuff that you don't do with AI. These are the limitations, these are the problems. Um genuinely when when you read through some of the guidance, you feel like a bad person for typing in a prompt that somehow that you're using the world's energy, that all labor has been exploited to to go through the guard railing of of all these different models. You feel like if I touch the computer, I'm literally contributing to the badness in the world. Um and it's only it only really recently and we we see the encouragement generally in industry etc. about where AI is going and what it will do for the world. You you it's only recently that universities and education, which are generally, you know, a little bit behind the rest of the world, are starting to talk about well here's here are potential positive applications of AI. Here's how you you you should or could or positively use the technology. But it's so hard to push against that cultural mindset that has been created over the last 3 years about don't do it. It's bad. And you see that reflected out of um the kind of sur fear that still exists from those initial steps that we took in policy. Now I'm going to have to duck out in the next 10 minutes cuz I've I'm running another session at 11. But um I I definitely uh I I need to catch >> [snorts] >> up with the the site and thing Louise. I I need to talk and and and try to bring more colleges in into your sessions cuz I think we can help with that, too. Um there's a lot of active discussion. I think there is a lot of potential, but it's so much work to be done. That's super, Kenji. Thank you. And uh just well before you go, if you're going in 10 minutes, if you have a look at these other development things cuz I'm also aware I didn't catch up with you earlier in the year. There's any anything else obviously that that's missing from that that padlet with developments in the sector, please please please please add add add add in. Okay. Well, as as as anticipated, AI AI AI AI has sort of dominated, so I'm going to I'm going to rattle through the other bits here and we'll move we'll move on to we'll move on to a we'll move on to two stars and a wish in a minute or two. So one of the comms I've added here is open education and OER. Uh and uh And again, just some headlines. First first of all, it this is the 25th anniversary of Creative Commons. Uh I haven't got my Creative Commons t-shirt on today, you'll be glad to hear cuz I I should dust out bring it out of the out of the cupboard. Uh it's still [clears throat] an amazing thing and it's still an amazing thing that that so few institutions really really are using or have an understanding of it or all these things. I know you guys do, but I still think there's there's there's a lot there's a lot more needing done in the Creative Commons space. And I know Lorna is on I think Lorna and I are planning to write a wee short paper or something on on on Creative Commons in in in in Scotland particularly around Open Scotland and our our engagement with with with CC over over the years. They've updated their website and done all of these kind of things. I've just I just put a link to actually the UK Creative Commons website, but if you have a wee if you have a wee Google, you'll see all the things they're doing for the for the 25th day 25th anniversary. Uh under open education and OER to have again, some people might not be aware, but I I've >> [clears throat] >> I've had it I've spoken a few times to actually European and German and various other audiences and it's principally because Open Scotland and Lorna and I are on the OER world map. Uh and if you have a look at the OER world map, there's still lots of good things happening in Scotland uh that aren't on the OER world map. So every every chance I get, I promote the OER world map. It disappeared for a spell uh but it's back it's back it's back up back up and running really thanks to a lot of work that happens inside Germany. Uh But it I just think there's there's so much good practice in Scotland that just just isn't there. Uh and I'll explain why that's significant in a minute or two. So if you're not on the OER world map, get on the OER world map. Louise, I think again the fact that Sketans work is there and open and all of these things, that'll be a great thing to add to the OER world map. Uh OER Open Education Week uh we put a cheeky wee poster about again ALCS. I should maybe have had that in the old headlines, but thankfully for ALCS' continued support for for for open. Uh and uh And again, you can see there's Edinburgh University saying, "What did you and or your institution do for Open Education Week?" And I just put that put that headline up as a as a cheeky thing because we all promoted Open Education Week like mad. Uh I was scanning to see what what did what did institutions across Scotland do for Open Education Week? Edinburgh University stands out by a mile. Uh and again, there might be other bits that, you know, maybe course development network course development network did something, maybe somebody else did, maybe other institutions did things, but it was really hard to find. Uh And and I think that that's a a challenge that we need to we need to bring back to the sector that the sector talks about in tertiary terms and uh in other planning terms, they talk about collaboration and working together and doing all of these things, but when you actually look for it and particularly around Open Education, it's it's still pretty scant. The landscape hasn't really changed that very that much. Uh And again, in terms of why why all of this is important about getting on the OER world map, about collaboration, the tertiary sector, and all of these kind of things, uh is it's worth worth drawing everybody's attention again uh to Scottish Government strategy because we want a we want a big victory. We want a big victory at the end and the beginning of of of of this year. Uh and I'm going to get Lee Dunn to come along to the uh to the next OER gathering in June uh cuz Lee Dunn shaped our Scottish Government digital strategy uh and there's a link to it and and and and bits and pieces in there. And it's got quite a narrow focus. It's basically saying that where organizations are organizations are publicly funded are creating digital training materials around digital literacy, that these materials should be appealing with an open open license. >> [snorts] >> Uh But that to me means that basically, uh you know, lots of colleges, lots of universities are all producing lovely internal training materials and things to get their staff up to speed with AI and lots of other good [clears throat] digital skills. Uh All of that should be pushed and and and and shared. Uh [snorts] And I think I think institutions need to start thinking about it now. Uh What it says in the policy is this has got to start in 2027. Now, that's that's just next year. Uh >> [snorts] >> So so there's a great lever there for for moving on Open Education in in Scotland. Uh and I'm very grateful that that Lee Dunn uh whose worked around the the sector and worked in private industry as well, but now with the Scottish Government, uh knew about Open Scotland and was paying attention and has woven this into in in in into what is now government policy, which is is great. But we've been here before with the funding council and various other bits and pieces where uh open got mentioned and then there's been no follow-up, so the the proof's in the in in in in in the pudding. Uh Keith, you've got your hand up. Yeah, if that's all right, George, just to come in really briefly um and sort of linking kind of OER to to AI. Um I don't know if other colleagues are finding this, uh but I see that, you know, we're starting to talk about in the sector. At UHI, we've we've had for a few years now um a framework for the development of Open Education practices, which um uh Lorna was involved in um helping us with at the very early stages of trying to think about what that might look like. Um and it took uh our efforts there took a wee bit of a kind of battering during um the lockdown period, but since then we've been trying to get back on track with um all things open and trying to develop our infrastructure around open and practices and so forth. Uh and we've got a GI policy um and guidance um which is hopefully at least semi-sensible and and kind of, you know, um to some extent sort of um uh based on um ethically informed, you know, permissive use of of kind of AI by staff and students. Um but we're really finding these two things clashing at the moment. Um uh our AI policy um uh stresses open first, you know, um uh look at our look at what's available openly um before you start using AI to create resources, look at what's available in our own institutional repository. Um we're really struggling to fly the flag for open practices and particularly using and reusing OER in the face of the convenience of of GI. It's a real struggle and I don't know if other colleagues are kind of um uh finding that kind of tension as well. I mean, we're quite we're still at quite an early stage in in trying to push open um uh and use of OER, but there's many things in place that that should be supporting that. But yeah, we're really, you know, in in the face of the convenience of GI, we're really struggling to to, you know, get folk to think about, you know, uh open practices and open resources. It's a real struggle. I think I think that's And again, that that that actually highlights that that that friction, doesn't it? Cuz you see that teaching staff rather than looking at open materials, uh they're busy working on they're busy working creating learning materials using AI. So so so there's still there's there's just an interesting bit of of people are you people are some not all, some of them are just like Keith said, using it like Google search engines, but but there are staff that are actually way doing quite creating quite interesting things using using AI. Uh My answer to that would be getting the getting the virtuous loop of eating you've created something quite interesting using AI, how you then republish it and then share it so that somebody else doesn't have to go in and and and and and and make it again. >> [sighs] >> Yeah, I think so. Um uh But also, I think a real concern here, and Helen Beetham's made this point really well, you know, um uh that kind of um unless you're you unless you're really good at you at prompting actually, uh what you're going to get back from your AI can be quite superficial. Um we know it can be inaccurate, you know, um and and and so forth. Um Things that colleagues have produced and made available openly, you know, um that's been that that's usually been done with some rigor and and and some, you know, decent decent uh uh level of design in the resources have been produced. So, you know, the quality of OER, I think um uh is often going to far outstrip what you might generate from GI unless you're really good at generating things with GI. So, yeah, I just saw that Lorna's got a hand up. Apologies, Lorna, I was talking over you there. Didn't I only just saw your hand. Um so yeah, I am uh I don't know. I wonder I just wonder if it's it's something that within our group and maybe at the the June event, we can find a space to have a bit more discussion on perhaps. No, perfect. I think that's I think that would be really useful. I think that would be good. Uh And And the others, I can't see hands up cuz I'm on the on my screen. Just say your Yeah, Lorna's coming in, yeah. Oh, Lorna Lorna, sorry. Lorna, come in. You can. Yeah, it's just you know, totally agree with Keith that and certainly one of the things that we've been um thinking quite a bit about in the OER our service in Edinburgh is exactly what you're talking about, Keith. Um from the perspective of sustainable computing, because that is a bit of that's a bit of a lever and it's something that quite a lot of universities are thinking quite hard about given um the rising cost of all sorts of aspects of learning technology from whether it's, you know, the fees you pay for your to your LMS provider if to um cloud storage, these things are starting to become very very very expensive. And of course, the use of AI is pushing that cost up. Um so, you know, institutions are starting to talk about sustainable computing and and I think OER has a very important role to play there because like you said, you know, why would you go and create something from scratch at considerable environmental and economic cost when something potentially better actually already exists? And I think, you know, again, it's part of this, you know, there's a uh a digital skills aspect to this when you, you know, that we still need to help people to find resources that are going to be useful to them. And one of the things we've been talking that's the OER service in Edinburgh has recently moved from the Education Design and Engagement division into the Digital Skills and Training division, which is quite an interesting move for us. And we've been talking to colleagues there about the possibility of actually developing some training about >> [clears throat] >> um scenarios where it might be quite valuable and legitimate to use AI and scenarios where actually you're better using Open Education and looking for existing resources. Um so I think that's something that we very much want to think about over the coming year. Um and the other thing that we're doing is we're updating our OER policy. So, um all our learning and teaching policies in Edinburgh get updated regularly on a 3-year basis and that that's just something that happens. Um we're also looking at updating our um learning technology policy. But in terms of the OER policy, one of the things we're doing is we're adding um some wording about AI, copyright, and OER because that's a really really really messy tricky space. And the government reports on copyright and AI has not really clarified things. Um so this is something that we've been quite a bit research on. And we're hoping that we will be in a position to to for within the OER service to put out some guidance about that interface between copyright, Creative Commons licensing, and AI um over the the course of the next year. So that's, you know, that's two areas that we're kind of we're, you know, we're doing quite a bit of thinking in. We're not going to be at the OER conference, unfortunately. Um I'm still unable to travel. Um but uh but yeah, hopefully we can sort of, you know, if we've got anything up on the website, we can flag it up to everyone. And we're certainly, you know, when the new policy is approved as well, it should be going up within the next couple of days, I think. So, sorry, I I just can't find the button to raise my hand. It's been a while since I've been on Zoom. And I'll jump in in a second, but the last thing um I just wanted to say, um so we were looking at AI um in connection with OER. And uh so some of the work that we've seen done in colleges um also looking at local models uh running off your device. And also recently uh some really edge case models that you can put on fairly not low-end phones, but you know, phones that run a couple of years ago. Um one of the aspects coming out of Bolton College 5 6 years ago um was the idea of the kind of rag aspect of preloading a data set, usually of your learning materials. And then creating a chatbot to reference that first to respond to questions. And we looked at some examples in the states uh and a couple in the Netherlands where they had used OER textbooks. So those publications, especially in the states in in the school sector, where they sort of devised that whole set of curriculum textbooks. And then using those, because they are open in nature, and creating those rag domains for them, so you could have local AI models respond directly to students with a kind of protected sense of um information that you could be reasonably assured that it contained the right information. Um and that's a real potential for the the open license working with AI, rather than kind of separating or pushing one to one place or the other. AI's coming regardless. But having if you have a course set of um textbooks or information that are openly licensed it gives you much more flexibility to look at implying them in a local sort of edge use case which deals with a lot of the energy consumption and and and data sharing sort of worries. Um but it but it's I I like solutions that just take what's there and use them rather than necessarily pushing against the type. I definitely have to go, but um we'll be keen to to catch up with you later, Joe. Um >> [laughter] >> and have a good And that was that was a really good really good comment to come in with, cuz that's my experience, too. And uh and I I was at a thing yesterday with IT people, and we're talking about uh about student induction at college land. Uh and uh I built an AI agent to do that 2 and 1/2 3 years ago. Uh and uh it worked really well. And all we did is we took all our FAQs, all the things that students ask questions on uh in the first 2 weeks of college. Uh and at that stage we used a I used a tool called Poe, p o e. Uh and we built it, and everybody likes it. And then and then I can't I can't say this. Uh and then it got blocked. It got blocked by IT. Uh and and and and I thought I hoped was that by now they would have built something similar uh within Copilot. But they've not given any of the rights to to run anything like that in the in within the college. So we haven't we we we haven't got that, so it hasn't moved moved forward, but there are per fixed bits of knowledge where you can you can create things, and the the tool won't hallucinate, and it and it it just speeds up the the process. And that was that was boring stuff. It wasn't learning, it was just a just just taking FAQs from induction week to to smooth students in induction. Anyway, I'm I'm off on one. Uh I'm going to move to the last column, which was the other stuff, and I'll go through it quite quite quickly. Uh other things I picked up uh and some of it I've got concerns about, but that's probably my own political axe. Uh SFC is doing college sector of the future uh work stream. And when you have a look at it uh I mean, we just talked about tertiary tertiary tertiary. Uh the college sector of the future work stream looks to me very much like that old funding council trick of a colleges, you've got big problems. Let's have lots of meetings where you can all sort out among yourselves. Uh and actually I don't think that that sorts out the problems across further and higher education. Uh I think I think uh I think it needs to be much more more more collective. Uh but it's worth having a look at that they're setting up this uh future work stream. And again, things like open education or collaboration and all these things just isn't isn't doesn't really feature in any of the any of the any of the documents that they they pushed out. Uh I think it's probably a recipe for further deaths by a thousand cuts, I I fear. Uh Jisc have got an interesting document that came out a wee while ago now. Uh a manifesto for tertiary education is going which again I think it's probably more useful in that it it does encourage it mentions open and it does only addresses the the tertiary sector. >> [snorts] >> Uh Now now they but I I always found this tool really good. I did procure uh virtual learning environments and things, and Jisc have just got just finishing a review uh of the VLE specification toolkit. >> [snorts] >> I used that when I was procuring a system, and it's great it's being being updated. It's a useful tool. Uh and that's and that's that data face link. Uh And just before I move on to two stars and a and a wish uh anything else, folks? Anything anything other or or or anything any under any of the other headlines? Uh Thanks, Jason. Yeah, I think I think the Jisc manifesto's been been been really useful. Uh Anything else anybody would would add to this? Cuz what I'll do is I'm going to reflect all of this back to to Big Old, and I'll I'll push it out to reflect the conversations that we've had today. Just one last thing from from me, Joe. Um again, the other um area that um we're working within the OER service in Edinburgh is um open textbooks. Um so that's something that we've not we've not done a huge amount of work in that area in the past. We did do we published one um prototype open textbook on fundamentals of music theory a couple of years ago. Which was actually really successful, but we're now um putting a bit more time and effort into that, and we're looking at creating open textbooks from um some of our MOOC materials, but also from other sort of um projects that have been funded around the university, and you know student created resources, and um so so that's something that we've been we're hoping to sort of build up more activity in and we did use we did just last week publish a new open ebook on um a toolkit for interdisciplinary learning and teaching. And I'll put the link in there. You know what that's that's good cuz when I was looking at some of the links, I looked at links we chatted about last last year as well, and uh I'm actually part there's a there's a UK Ireland open textbook initiative. They they were actually and they were also they were at they usually come to the OER conferences, and and they the were they were at last year's OER conference. Uh and [snorts] they were trying to refresh their network, so I get regular emails uh from them, and I'll add that to the links as well. Uh I kind of looked at it and I thought, well, that's not contemporaneous, but it but it but it still is. Uh And there's a link to join it, and and I I I a couple of times I've had I've had goes at pushing it round really colleges uh in in in Scotland, but when I've been when I've been pushing it round people here go, what's that got to do with us? Or or actually more usefully oh, we're in that already, but we it's the same challenge. We're in it already, but we can't get teaching staff to look at open textbooks. You know, that that basically the barrier goes up because the staff still want the the library to order the book for the library, and they're not prepared to look at open textbooks. So there's there's still challenges there. Jason, you've got your hand up. Yeah, so I'll start on that point there. I do I've added the link to the Jisc solar pilot, which is ongoing. And that's using AI to as a discovery tool for OER. And uh there's the blog post there about Coventry's positive experiences. They haven't quite got to the end of the pilot yet, and something hopefully will come back from that. Um but actually I just wanted to reflect on Tuesday where I was the QAA Northern Ireland uh enhancement conference. So I was on a panel with that. Uh the whole thing was a little bit AI oriented, but I actually one of the things that that came about um from that and from the uh quality enhancement side is the focus on as we all know technology there is there to solve problems and take opportunities. And actually being at a conference which wasn't about the technology, it was a about the the problems and challenges and opportunities I think it was quite refreshing to do that. And we all know that this is the case, but especially with my gripe at the moment is an awful lot of talk of AI isn't actually about what we're trying to solve with it or what opportunities we're trying to even get. It's about a technology, and we all know that you starting from the technology is never a great place to start. Um in that. So uh I I just reflecting on that partly because actually QAA Northern Ireland is pretty much QAE Scotland Uh having gone for a day out to Northern Ireland or indeed there's some colleagues in Wales and England as well contributing as well. But it might be an opportunity for us and all Scotland to work a little bit more closely and I know we all do actually with QAE but there might be an open door there. QAE on my invite list. They're quite interesting cuz I've seen a couple of emails. They passed the parcel to Jason but I'm hoping to get some something along from QAE to the next event in June. >> They have had staffing difficulties and they've gone through I don't know how many heads or directors of devolved nations in the past few years so for one reason or another so yes. Deborah McFarland still there though and and so she's a good one to contact. If it I'll have another go at that. Maybe come back to Jason offline because I have I've had difficulty getting them to engage. Can you put Deborah's name there just in the chat cuz that will just help me. Okay folks, so we're we're at that bit where we're going to move move from that kind of round robin of of what's happening to to the kind of two stars and >> [clears throat] >> and a wish part. And I I had a go. And you'll see actually the the thing the thing I've highlighted and these these are things I've been doing over over over really over the last year. So to my my two stars again very I focused. I've been I've been using I've been using an MD markdown file when I've been using and again full disclosure I use a lot of tools but I use I use only free tools. I again boy from Paisley roads used to dealing with adult learners and all these kind of things with no conscious could I ever recommend to someone going going buy going pay for going going going buy a system or any of these things. So how do you get the most out of the free tools? One of the ways you get the most out of the free tools is is having having [clears throat] having on your on your laptop or your desktop a dummy MD file that basically says who I am what I want you to do all of these other bits and pieces and it works really well. It means that when you're doing your prompts and things you get you get back quite quickly what you want without asking lots and lots of questions and without using up all your all your free tokens. So [snorts] so it's it's it's Paisley Road street chat for how how you exploit these systems and don't don't suddenly get to the juicy bit where it says you've used up all your free questions and you have to come back 24 hours or wait 6 hours. A dummy file really really improves things. Okay, so that's my first star. My second star is a the colleges in Glasgow did a offered free courses around vibe coding. And away back in the last century I used to do quite a lot of coding some of you in the know will know that I I built websites and various other things and I and I pushed out my own teaching materials as websites and things in the 19 90s. So that that was when I was I I was as a as a teaching and a development tool and ways to create open education materials and all all of these kind of kind of things. And if And again it's not for everyone. It's not something I would say every teacher needs to learn how to use vibe coding. >> [snorts] >> But it's so useful and I went back and I spoke to colleagues that teach that teach computing that teach things like that and at the moment vibe coding doesn't feature much in any of the HQA curriculum or any of these kind of things and you're like oh gosh because it really it really does change round and again I spoke to people in the computer industry who of course are all doing vibe coding like mad and saying things like you don't you don't really have to understand a lot of languages now because vibe coding will do it won't do it all but it does that it does that bit of a getting you to prototype things really quickly so you can then you can then have something prototyped and then go and speak to to proper developers. It's it's just mind-blowing. And then my wish and I was I was I was speaking at an exhibition thing in Glasgow yesterday with lots of lots of IT staff. It was a it was a it was a conference run by and I I always get them wrong. I'm going to call them Mediascape really really really for all of the installers and things that install a install lecture capture and screens and all of these things in colleges and universities. And I I was talking to lots of IT staff and I said to them one of the things I keep hearing at Jisc meetings at various other online forums where people are all busy sharing practice and being good in on a in a forum like this talking about all the all the good resources that their institution has or their college has and then somebody says well that's great can you share that policy on whatever it is or your policy on student use of AI or your policy or staff development policy what I hear over and over again is it's all on SharePoint unfortunately. It's all on SharePoint unfortunately. In other words it's a it's a in a closed loop and when I was talking to all the IT guys I said look I keep hearing this and they they said but but but basically all you have to do all you have to do all you have to do is talk to your IT team and in an education instance of SharePoint all you have to they they can enable enable external sharing and that will allow allow people to share things and I said but but does that come at cost and they said no no your educational license allows all of that. But what I think is lots of the system doesn't do this and then I would came back and had a dig and there are there is a wee bit of security concern still about doing this >> [snorts] >> but I just want to stop hearing that when I'm when I'm at events and doing things so that's one of my wishes and it's again it comes back to open education and things about a really about how we change up the system so I don't hear in in in in big national meetings that we've got this and we've done this and here's a PowerPoint presentation on it and it what you really want to see is the actual policy and they say well it's all on SharePoint unfortunately. So I'd like that I'd like that that changed but there is a route to changing it but a but we need to figure out and again it comes back to that a bit about local agents and doing all of these kind of things that institutions can do but they need a bit more confidence to to get there. So that's my that's my star one star two and a wish and a I've got the ball rolling. I'm going to I'm going to stop talking for 15 minutes. I'm going to go and make a cup of tea and you can go and make a cup of tea as well but while you're making a cup of tea what I'd like you all to think about is what your two stars and what should what's your wish. Is that okay folks? Okay, I'll put away messages in case anybody else does join us that we're pausing pausing for you to go and think about your two stars and a wish and add it to the screen please. Thanks very much folks. I'll see you in a minute too. Okay, I'll go I'll call up two stars and a wish again give me a second I'm going to play this here. Oh so everybody's got I've got some things. So thanks Lorna for sharing and everybody else Jason what are your two stars and a and a wish come on get them in. We were nurturing there. Lorna do you want to start by talking us through your your your your your your star and a wish? Mhm. Yeah sure thing. I did submit I submitted two stars as well. I don't know where that That one's gone. Um I I cheated slightly and I have to share things I'd already shared in the chat. Um but the first one is some you know given the conversations we're having about AI it's some useful guidance created by colleagues in the library at Edinburgh University about how to attribute and site um the use of GNAI tools in academic work. Um so it's specifically for academic work but I think there's some really useful information there about anyone who wants to attribute and site um the use of AI so that's my first star. Did you get my second one Jill? I can't see I can't see on the board. Oh that's weird. Um I'll add it again. The second one that um um I was I tried to add was um the ebook that I mentioned earlier on the toolkit for interdisciplinary learning and teaching um which we published last week on Edinburgh Diamond which is universities um opening book service. So, I'll add that. And my wish was again uh basically just what um the point that Keith raised earlier, which is I think more thoughtful um and informed use of AI. Um and an understanding of when you could just as um it could be just as equally valid to use existing resources rather than um actually having to create new AI-generated resources just cuz it's cool or it's fun or whatever. There may actually be existing resources out there that you can use. I think that's absolutely spot on. And uh and Phil, I see you've you've got you've got back in. You can hear us now. Uh and you've added us a star. Do you want to you want to talk us through that? Um yeah, it was just um earlier this week I attended this webinar with the excellent Phil Dawson. Um he regularly crops up talking about assessment. Um it's always I always find his uh talks very pragmatic uh and practical and um uh but also really well grounded in uh pedagogic research. So, uh quite hard to argue with. Um but um yeah, he it's it's worth watching um just from uh just full of all sorts of useful advice and and uh context around the impact of uh AI on really good um impact of AI on assessment practices. I haven't got around to writing it in the wish yet, but my wish uh um uh if I get around to writing it uh would be that um the advent of AI really calls uh pulls people up short to pay greater attention to um what they're doing in assessment. I think a lot of assessment practices are very thoughtless and um uh people tend to I was having a conversation yesterday, which I think's very typical. Um people write learning outcomes not because they're actually trying to think about what the learning outcomes might be, but because we've got regulations, university regulations that say you you need to write a learning outcome if you're going to have a course. Um uh and I had a conversation with this academic, and he had no idea what a learning what purpose a learning outcome served and why we even had them. And I just think that's so typical. Um uh and we had to we had to have that conversation before we could talk about designing a rubric. Uh and there was so many things around uh rubric design that we talked about where again he was doing a rubric because he'd been told he needed a rubric, but he had no concept of um the clarity required in terms of assessment. Um >> [clears throat] >> So, that that that whole narrative, I think a lot of the problems that we've got around the impact of AI on assessment is because people don't think these things through. Assessment is very second um third, fourth thought in course design. And I really wish that AI shakes things up and uh makes people pay much greater attention to what on earth they're trying to do with assessment. I might throw some thoughts. No, I'm I'm I'm with you 200%. Uh and I think some of my colleagues have heard me on this. So, I started off as an English teacher. Uh and an English and history school teacher. And uh and we're still asking the same questions, you know, explain explain the tragedy in Romeo and Juliet but because that's what they've always asked. Uh but nobody nobody's asked the question about what do you actually want the student to learn? What's Where's the You know, and and now AI's arrived, it just shows throws such a sharp light uh on uh I mean, it's academically lazy. It's all kinds of lazy and it's all all coming into uh and we just we just need to up our game. And I I I actually again, having done HQA where it was learning outcomes and performance criteria and all of these things. But but all designed around national occupational standards. You know, so so so you've got a purpose. You know why, you know, you know, and again, so English isn't about English literature. It's about a range of communication skills you want the the the the candidate the learner to develop. Uh and how you're going to do that? And if you look at it that way, then you can you can change up and and actually evidence that people have actually learned, not just filled up buckets with explain the tragedy of Romeo and Juliet, for God's sake. But it's still stuck with that. And uh That's it. Yeah. Uh no, absolutely 100%. Jason, you've added a few things. Do you want to chat us through? Uh yes, so one might complain that I'm kind of promoting Jisc about this, but actually uh so if starting off with digital skills support and what was said, uh one of the nuggets and gems or indeed stars uh of Jisc that's underused still is the building digital capability uh discovery tools. So, there's sets for students, there's sets for staff. It's self-evaluation, but backed by a curated set and hundreds of um of uh resources there as well. And uh institutions can add their own resources into as well. Um it's free to use for colleges. There is some payment for universities, but it's covering costs. Um and um it's it's there. And as Jisc is owned by you as well, if there's anything you don't like about it, then tell us and we will we'll look at changing it as well. But uh uh the even the data that we get out of it does benefit the sector because we put that back in again to recognize the sort of areas in which staff and and students indeed are needing help and so um if you you haven't looked at it or if your institution isn't using it or if it's one of those things that's been signed up for, but nobody is really promoting, then uh you might want to have a look again at building digital capability. It really should be a more of a jewel in the crown than it is. Um so, uh that's plug one perhaps. Before you go to point Before you go to point two, Phil's put his hand up. I don't know if it's a question on on this specifically, Phil. Uh no, it wasn't a question. I'll wait until um uh after Jason's finished talking cuz uh I had a star two. No no more. Phil, Jason, on you go. Okay, then. Uh and briefly again, just mentioning Jisc AI support community cuz there's an awful lot of that. Uh but I think out the star amongst it is perhaps the maturity tool, uh trying to move the conversations on recognizing institutional readiness. And because and it's been alluded to a number of times, what Wayne and Keith you've put it very well is that it's all very well typing stuff into Google-like search engines for answers. Um but exploring what transformation could look like for the benefit of learners and staff and society, I think is the key part of it. And the simple things and and again, it's an obvious one, but uh the other day in in Northern Ireland, I was reminded by uh Judy Williams that some of you might know in Queen's University Belfast. Um that she is um severely dyslexic, but generally AI rather than AI just makes such a difference in in her getting stuff presented to her in the way she needs. Uh and that's a big area. Anyway, the whole AI support uh for me, the gem of that is the community. It's vibrant. It's got an awful lot of answers and sharing of experience and questions um in it. And uh and so, a great place to go. And I'm very briefly, my wish is that well, uh we've got some wonderful people on the call today, but it'd be great if we could have had more of the wonderful people. So, I apologize for the very cheesy AI-generated image, but I thought I'd go for cheese. Um and but um I will um invest some time in trying to get people across our community in Scotland more involved because um this is a great thing and we and we know learning technology and learning technologists need support across our sector. So, um I will make a concerted effort to get more people uh signed up and along. Yeah, Jason, I think that's really important. And I'm maybe target that that event in June actually again, which is hybrid. So, some people come to Stirling uh and some people do online. But uh but again, I'm hoping in the background QAA education Scotland face our things, that kind of policy thing, which might not excite everybody, but but I think some of the stuff around AI that we'll get Louise's colleagues to do should excite everybody. Uh [snorts] so, we'll get we'll we'll we'll get something sorted out and do do a bit more of promotion uh on that. Now, Mary, you've got your hand up, Mary McVey. Uh I I do have to hold my hand now. It really missed my comment for Jason about the digital uh capability and the digital skills. We do promote it. I Most of my teaching's level one. And there's something that we've built into our induction this year, but a lot of the feedback from students was it was a bit overwhelming. Like there was lots of sets and um what do I do and I'm really just looking for ideas on how to help them navigate through it and I would you know I'd like it to be an iterative process but you know what works well elsewhere but any any guidance on that would be really helpful cuz it's great resources but it is I just a little bit a lot in your face. And we do have some advice as to how institutions can frame it to provide that that support. I'll get back to you on that. That's brilliant. Thank you. That was all. Thanks, Joe. Super and Phil, you just added the the second your second star. You want to talk us through that? Yeah, um I don't know how widely available it is to the the wider community but I thought I'd flag it up because we were talking earlier about shadow AI use and that there seems to be stuff going on that we're not aware of and this group uh seems to be partly trying to address that. Um uh certainly within Edinburgh University. >> [clears throat] >> They had the first meeting earlier this week and I think uh 60 people turned up to it. Wow. Um all really keen to find out more about who's who's doing what and how how we can support each other. Um they were it wasn't recorded. Uh I think it's probably best that these things aren't in that particular instance but people were admitting that they're uh there was academics for instance that know nothing about computing wouldn't recognize what a line of code means if uh if it was spelled out to them um but are developing apps using AI um and using those apps on university systems with no knowledge of the impact having or its security implications or any of that sort of thing but desperate to achieve whatever it is that they're trying to achieve from a research point of view or or from a discovery point of view um and just looking for support but not knowing where they can safely ask for that support. So this [clears throat] um this group looks like it's going to be really valuable in terms of um loads of people coming together with various different levels of skill and knowledge being able to support each other with coming up with uh good practice uh safe practice um in um the tertiary sector basically. So um I'm hoping that there'll be lots of good stuff comes out of it from my ideas. Really really useful and again I think some of this reflects I mean I I'm so ancient I remember the beginning of the internet. I mean again one of one of the guys one of the guys I used to play football with who was who was like an apprentice technician IT technician at City of Glasgow College is now the head of IT for Clyde College so I caught up with him and we had a good laugh about them coming to take away cuz I I programmed the first modem at Cardonald College and eventually they came and took it away as they were putting a big network in and doing all these kind of things. So we we shared lots of stories on on on all of that but but at that point when the internet arrived and and and academic computing kind of arrived so many people kept things up their sleeves. I mean I I remember somebody that kept kept producing these amazing training manuals from Apple on on an Apple computer and I kept I kept couldn't figure out how how they did it and eventually they showed me and it was how to print screen. It basically all they were doing was they were going and and on on on these early Apples there was there was like three keystrokes you had to know in order to print a screen which you then could put into you know but they wouldn't they weren't going they weren't going to tell anybody because it was their baby to make these kind of learning materials and they but it was a really exciting time and I think some of the things that are happening just now good and bad are are as are as exciting as that bit when when the internet kind of kind of arrived so it's good to know that these kind of closed meetings are happening and people are trying to figure out a way a a way through uh all all of this one of the things I didn't stick on the big slide and I didn't haven't put into two stars and a wish and and and I think they were quite controversial but I'm sorry to see them go the we are open co-op is a is is coming to an end. If you don't know about the we are we are open co-op I'll put a link and you should go and have a look at some of the things that they did as a as as a collective uh but one of the we are open co-op who is really Doug if he's watching this he won't mind me saying this is relatively controversial figure. But he's he's kind of running a one-man campaign at the moment against big big corporate IT and he's busy putting up lots of things about how to how to use AI how to use how to how to do everything with open source basically and and and not use some of the big American corporate platforms and some of them are actually really really really interesting and it's maybe worth some people having having a look at but again I think it's part of this whole excitement around around what's what's a big shakeup in in sort of network to learning. My take and again some people might disagree with me but it's probably worth not just look at Doug's work but the the work of other other people in that we are open uh uh we are open cooperative and even how they founded their cooperative and and some of you will know Brian Mayther's work I mean he did all the graphics stuff for them and things. I mean it's it's it's I'm sorry to see it disappearing because some some of the stuff they did for Greenpeace and for various other things really really amazing actually. I'll put the link in I'll edit I'll edit retrospectively but I think I think it's just a really exciting time. Uh Right back to my back to my padlet. Wait. What have I done? What have I done? I've lost my padlet. Give me a second. Wait. Excuse me while I fiddle about with my with my my my screens. What have I done? Wait. Give me a second. Wait. Here we are. Still I'm looking down to see who else has added anything to two stars and a wish. Uh Oh Phil, you're coming in. I saw something using Yeah. Oh it's yeah yeah yeah. Oh do you want to come in and just chat with that Phil for a minute? I was just um yeah I've I've been um modifying some of my text in various documents to specifically put generative in front of AI just just to be clear um but I was reading something recently and they were talking about AIML as if everybody knew what it meant. Um and of course I know perfectly well what AI ML means at least what it meant 20 years ago. >> [laughter] >> Um >> [clears throat] >> uh it doesn't appear to mean that anymore so these acronyms are getting banded around. Um uh AIML was actually the markup language that was used when Microsoft made Clippy available um as a tool that you could you could customize your own website web pages with. I don't know whether you remember that on learning pages you could have a little parrot. Um uh and various other a little wizard and things like that. It was the markup language for what it would say when you interacted with it. Um a blast from the past. And there's there's still rumors that Clip Clippy's going to reappear as as I see all of that. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And and Fred, do you want to come in and and just explain cuz you're absolutely right. I'm I'm a bit of a cynic about AI as a term because most of the stuff we're there talking about is actually large language models and large language models are stochastic parrots as was put out by Timnit Gebru before she was sacked by Google for pointing out that these things are dangerous and unethical and have lots of harms that aren't being recognized or being accounted for especially in the global south. So I am and I keep looking for actual proof that any of this actually works and I've yet to see any proof that AI makes you quicker. There's been studies out of MIT that say actually it makes you 20% slower. There's other studies that say it actually reduces your ability. So I am very much an AI cynic. I have seen neural networks used 20 years ago for basically hacking wireless networks and that was actually really effective. Um and using neural networks to actually build models that actually learned how to follow certain principles but again it's it's not learning in the sense that um humans learn and there certainly isn't any intelligence as we know it as humans cuz they are basically just models that manage to regurgitate lots of stuff and lots of stuff that's being plagiarized off the internet. And all this they're good at coding they're good at using other people's code and putting it back as code. So, I am I am very much um not pro AI, especially as a term, and especially if you're not actually being accurate about what it actually means. That's really useful and and and and and that that that label of of of of helpful cynicism is is really useful in all all of this debate. What what what what I would I would say and and Kenji alluded to it, a and I had quite a lot of success of using basically using I mean again, thing things that three or four years ago I would have had to build bring a developer in to create a a chatbot that that spoke to our students and took them through or gave them an induction information and helped the student save the student time at finding things. I mean that boring stuff of of getting a an accurate FAQ frequently asked questions and putting it into a closed model and then using it with students, that actually really works. You know, and it's not hallucinating. It's but it's not you know, strictly speaking, you might say, "Well, it's not it's not it's not you know, you can argue about whether it's AI or not because basically what it's looking at is a is a fixed data set and then and then saying things nicely when it's only looking at a fixed data set." But that that actually works, Fred. Um but at what cost? Um at the moment, all there is not a single company that is actually charging what it cost. I reckon from having read some research on this that you would actually each have to pay 20,000 US dollars a month to actually cover the cost of these models. Um and you say it works. Have you got make sure it's got high high high safeguards? Breaking LLMs is extremely easy because they do not differentiate between data and um commands. So, uh there's been lots and lots of exploits exploits where basically you can break any guardrails. And if you actually look at the code that was released by uh Anthropic by mistake, they've got lots of bits where the code is saying, "Please don't leak this. Please don't like that. Um don't mention goblins." And it's like, "Are you serious that this is proper intelligent computing?" It's like for me, it's like, "No, that doesn't work at all." Again, I think that's really useful because again, the route I'm seeing just now and it's that discussion I had yesterday with IT people or IT folk from across the across the sector is that [snorts] a Copilot can do lots of these things and it's free at the moment under the educational license, but but we all know that Microsoft is is prone once you're once once you're bought in to hike their prices and things, Fred. So, you're you're absolutely you're absolutely spot on in in in questioning all of this. Um and um Oracle has just basic posted a quarter where they lost something like 19 million dollars. They are building allegedly building data centers for OpenAI, which OpenAI hasn't got the money to pay for. We have got a very serious um bubble that financially is not making any sense. And again, it's like we are there is an awful lot of risks and there's also a lot of risk in terms of um copyright and stuff. But there's a whole lot of open source projects that I follow that have rejected AI completely because there is no guarantee that the code you provide through AI actually isn't copyrighted. Well, there's a couple of things in what you've said, Fred, that would be good. You know, even even that bit of having either as a star or a or or a star two or a wish >> [snorts] >> that that would be useful to share with with our with our broader constituency because I think these are all these are incredibly important and valuable insights, Fred. And now I can I do have a whole lot of various links and things that I can probably dig out and drop in, which might be more useful cuz again, um but again, the Ada Institute, which is mentioned there by Timnit Gebru, has lots of useful information, especially about the harms that are currently ongoing with a lot of um so-called AI tools. Um They in fact they had a a recent talk recently about the the harms that companies like Sama have created in places like um Kenya by basically getting people to look at content, which is frankly horrific, and then labeling it so it doesn't turn up in our AI models. And there is no guarantee that that content won't appear. And seeing at least three of the big um LLM models had to be pulled because they had um child sexual abuse material, which they'd been trained on and that material was coming out. And again, it's like, "How can we trust these things when we don't know A what's in them and B how they actually work?" Well, I mean again, back to uh you know, and and again, please forgive me, but the beginnings of the internet, if you if you remember, had had this wild west feel to it as well, you know. And I think there is a bit of wild west going on. Can I ask, Fred, are you engaged with We had Louise earlier on in in SCATN. Have you been feeding some of this in because a lot of what you've said again, I think would would be would be really useful as as part of the kind of SCATN work, which is looking at equal AI use? No, I I haven't um I haven't been involved in that. Um or or seen much of that. It's just one of the things I I just see an awful lot of stuff being pushed about AI and how good it is. And from my perspective, just from an ethical point of view, it is extremely unethical or all large language models are extremely unethical. Um Microsoft sacked their ethical team shortly after Google had sacked Timnit and her team. And you know, these companies claim they're ethical and they are not from my book. And but again, ethics is a personal thing. So, what is acceptable to one person is not necessarily acceptable to another. Yeah, but but I think I think absolutely. But it would be good it would be good to hook you in to Louise and SCATN. I think some of the the stuff you're saying, some of the links, I think would be would be would be useful in in in that context. Okay, I'll put something together that's sort of hopefully puts a fairly coherent message on it. Perfect. Thank thank you so much. Uh I am looking down to see if there's any other other stars or or or or wishes coming in. What we getting from other people? I haven't I'm not seeing anything anything else on the on on the board. Wait. Can I come back and eyeball people? >> [clears throat] >> Give me a tick. Oh, Keith, you've got your hand up. Yeah, thanks, Joe. Um I was trying to add some stuff, but it wouldn't let me add directly. Uh it says that my first thing I've suggested is uh awaiting uh um approval. So, I don't know if it's a a setting at my end. It shouldn't be uh there shouldn't be any any It's all it's all unlocked. So, it might be a setting at your end. >> It might be something at my end. I tried to post I had a couple of things. The first thing I tried to post, it just says awaiting approval. I can see it at my end, but but um not on the >> to have a look at my my dashboard in there. But it was just to say it was the um Directory of Open Access Journals, which I've put into the chat as well. Um uh I find it's a really useful resource. I run um a session a couple of times a year for our postgraduate research students on how they can use digital and open resources to support their research. Uh and the Directory of Open Access Journals has really come on in the last couple of years in particular. It's about 20 odd thousand journals, nearly 15,000 of which don't have any article processing fees. So, uh you can also access um uh journals in multiple different languages. Um so, for our research students, I kind of recommend this as a way to maybe look at journals in their area that um would allow them as postgrads to publish without the need for processing fees. Um but also where we've got research students that that um are maybe looking at very niche areas of research and they're not always going to find things in uh journals published in English language, then they'll often find things through searching the Directory of Open Access Journals, work that's been published in journals in other languages, which they can then translate. Um uh so, for me, this that that kind of serves multiple purposes. Um uh uh and it's just a really good resource collection of of kind of open access journals, uh many of which have a really developmental nature as well. They they kind of a lot of open access journals also share a kind of developmental ethos and they'll support people trying to publish for the first time. So, yeah, that was that was my first star. Um I don't know what I was going to do for the second one. I hadn't quite got that far. I've got I I just just in the background I went I don't know how you but it it did I suddenly went in it is open. I don't know if I've inadvertently my end as I've been jumping through screens click something, but the board's back open again. I did have to approve. I approved three three three posts there. So, apologies, colleagues, if if me jumping between Zoom and screens and things have have managed I've managed to shut the the the the sharing aspect of this, but it's back it's back it's back open again. And Keith, you can see now your your your your your post on DOAJ is has now arrived. And I did approve three, so I'm going to look down and see what what else what else has arrived if I can see it. We're here and I can't see. I'm just busy looking see she's right at the top. Uh well, Phil, your post arrived as well. No, that that that that that that that that that that's good, too. Jason, you put a comment in the policy finder bit. Yeah, just to note that those who work in the library are dealing with the publications policy. If you use open policy finder from Jisc, that pretty much everyone does, then that does include data from the Directory of Open Access Journals. So, hopefully that that this kind of allows discovery a bit better as well. Well, that's super. Now, I'd I'd add that to the to the links and bits pieces as well. So, it's now 12:04 and we're we were scheduled to go into 12:30. I do want to cut the discussion short cuz it's been really useful. Keith, you still have your hand up, I think. Sorry, Joe. That's the legacy. Yeah, and that's also been too used to Teams that puts the hand down for you. Apologies. No no bother. No no no no no bother at all. I'm going to put I'll add some links on the front page to the to the We Are Open legacy work cuz again, I think I think just their approach as a cooperative and and they champion open education. And again, on some of uh some of some of the concerns expressed around uh open models by Phil Doug's doing some quite interesting work in Europe around around different types of AI models, which is quite interesting as well. I I think quite interesting. Uh And I'll I'll stick some links I'll stick some links into that. Anybody want to end add anything else under stars or or wishes and or on the on the original board that we we stuck up when we did the we did the kind of cross-sectoral review? I'll take silence as as there's nothing else to come. I suppose just that bit of any other business, we're looking looking forward in terms of ALT, we're looking forward to an should have the date to hand, but I haven't got it to hand, but it's it's it's on the ALT website. The next ALT Scotland gathering will be a hybrid event thanks to Jason hosted in Stirling University, but also online. Jason, I know what I've said to all, I need to get the email addresses of folks so we can set up the so we can set up Teams for the next meeting at Stirling. I think that's correct, Jason, yeah? Um you can just create a Teams meeting or else I can give you a Teams meeting link, whichever you prefer. And that and just need you can let people know that that's so straightforward. You don't need to post >> perfect. Well, 12th of June, I think that's correct. Yes, I think that's correct, Keith. So, perhaps if you Jason, if you set that up, I'll I'll liaise with with ALT and and reflections on today and I'm going to tease all that I you some of you here at the start of the meeting knew that I had two or three apologies, but I didn't I didn't have a delegate list. I didn't I didn't know who was all going to arrive. >> [snorts] >> So, I'll I'll liaise more closely with ALT around cuz I also want to buy again, ALT kindly are going to sponsor a scone or a tea and coffee on arrival, but we'll be we'll be buying our own lunch when we're at Stirling. But if it if it works the last way, I think we got about 40 people for that, but but with only I think we had about 16 people on site. So, I've told ALT we won't break the bank in terms of in terms in terms of hospitality. >> [laughter] >> Any any other further business, folks, before I I close this meeting then? Oh, some of these dogs want to walk. That's my >> [laughter] >> tennis ball for a while. Oh, wow. Holy wow. Gosh, that's interesting, Jason. Ooh. That's interesting. See if we can get somebody to do that. Well, actually, do you know uh the the chief exec of ALT won't be there. We maybe see if we can persuade her to become come in as a hologram. That might be quite interesting. Green. Is that the hologram that you you had there last time we were there? Yeah, it's the small portable. But we're not at the stage by Forth Valley College who's as I've seen that have bought the full size one for the Skills Transition Center. So, I'm still working on the budget to get a full size one. So, she can she can appear on the desk like Princess Leia. Yes. >> [laughter] >> That that that may well be a turn. No, that's great. That that that's super. And and we'll be on the other side of these elections then as well. So, so again, that's why I'm hoping we'll get lead on cuz he'll be able to speak. He is he is he is at the moment is they're all they're all they're all locked down, you know, just that bit of product because of the elections. And we'll maybe get some from SQE as well then. Okay, folks, it's it's 10:12. I'm going to let you all escape early. Thank thanks so much for a nice morning. Thanks, Joe. Thank you for having us. Cheers. Take care. Bye now. Cheers. I'm going to hold the meeting open just in case, but what I'm doing is I'm scraping the the the because it's the ALT Zoom, I'm scraping the links and things for a minute or two. So, I've got my >> [laughter] >> Okay. Right. Cheers, folks. Bye now. Wait. >> Mhm. >> I think I'm done.