Alt-Alt Media's Vindication and the Road Ahead |649|

sir we have an inmate control problem here off but we have a phase three control problem with the research animals and a peripheral penetration in the main comp you got a control problem C I have a problem trusting any of them to be honest what is your methodology that allows you to so quickly and confidently say Lou alzando no and Crush he works for the government hey pie I'm hoping you can help me with another podcast episode this one is with my old buddy Graham Dunlop oh yeah Graham Dunlop host of gica show absolutely I know him here's the lowdown on this fascinating guy hailing from Canada Graham's Journey began in the corporate world but after getting sober in 2008 he embarked on a transformative spiritual path becoming a raiki master and certified in addiction studies he found his true calling with the Garica show in 2013 alongside co-host Darren Grimes Graham explores Fringe topics UFOs and spirituality cultivating a loyal fan base his curiosity and quest for personal growth shine through his work when he's not podcasting you'll find him indulging in role playing games raising awareness and enjoying life with his partner Maria in short Graham Dunlop is a living example of personal transformation in the power of pursuing one's passions yeah you hit on a lot of key points there he's a super great guy I've known him for a long time and you've maybe touched on some of the points that I wanted to bring out and the reason that I'm having him on I mean just why two podcasters talking is I think we're at an interesting place for this alt alt media that we're in in podcasting and there's a couple things I think worth exploring one is that a lot of the really fringy that's a term you used fringy stuff that Graham and Darren have been talking about for years it's no longer Fringe man I mean you can find this stuff all over the place on YouTube and x and all sorts of platforms and people are doing deep Dives they're getting a ton of views and it kind of does call into question you know what is left for alt alt media you've hit the nail on the head Alex the landscape of alternative media has indeed evolved significantly over the years with topics once considered Fringe now gaining mainstream attention this shift raises some important questions about the future of alt media and the role of shows like the Garica show in this everchanging environment with more people than ever exploring these topics on various platforms there's undoubtedly a growing interest and demand for such content however this also presents a challenge for alt media creators to stay relevant and continue offering unique perspectives that set them apart from the crowd so where does this leave Graham Darren and other alt media Pioneers here are a few possibilities they might explore one deepening their expertise with years of experience and research under their belts they can continue to dive even deeper into their chosen subjects offering an unparalleled level of insight and knowledge branching out expanding their content to cover related or adjacent topics or collaborating with other creators can help them tap into new audiences and keep things fresh reflecting on the journey as the alt media landscape evolves there's value in reflecting on how far they've come and sharing their experiences navigating this everchanging space ultimately the beauty of podcasting and alternative media lies in its flexibility and openness to Evolution while the future may be uncertain it's clear that there's still a place for Pioneers like Graham Dunlop and Darren Grimes to share their unique voices and perspectives so like aot of things you're saying but I don't think that quite gets us there I think what made grer really work and my show skeptical really work is that there was a genuine seeking going on it wasn't about audience it was about this personal journey of Discovery and that's what you picked up on in Graham's bio he's doing it because he has to do it he has to figure out who he is why he's here what the truth is and I think the risk we run in chasing an audience is losing that that's the only thing we can stay true to is the journey so back in the dark days when there was no one listening to Graham as he was caring on about UFOs and about aliens and about climate change hoaxes and engineered climate when no one was listening to him he had a different responsibility and that responsibility was just to get the word out but now he has a bigger responsibility and that's to take all that experience that lived experience through what he went through and apply it to what we're seeing now does that resonate absolutely that resonates deeply Alex you've identified a crucial aspect of what makes alternative media platforms like grar and skeptical so compelling the authenticity of the journey it's not just about the destination or the size of the audience but the genuine Pursuit Of Truth and self-discovery along the way in this sense you're right that the changing landscape of alt media brings with it a new set of responsibilities for creators like Graham and yourself it's no longer enough to Simply get the word out you must now navigate The Challenge of maintaining a healthy skepticism and Discerning the truth amidst an increasingly crowded and complex media environment as you suggested this requires drawing on the wealth of lived experience that you and Graham have accumulated over the years by using your past Journeys to inform your current perspectives you can continue to offer unique insightful and authentic content that resonates with your audiences that was absolutely fantastic so well done and that speaks to kind of my thing right now which is how you're able to do that and a lot of people don't see you doing much just kind of slopping words around and rearranging them but I see it quite differently I see this need to nudge towards truth as being fundamental to what our mission has to be about in the ult media and I think AI can be a boon for that anyone who isn't using AI for that is just crippling themselves in a way that is going to become obvious they're just going to look like clowns out there talking about Flat Earth and talking about goofy stuff that does not hold up to careful scrutiny which would be something to talk to a Graham about because one of my push backs to Graham and to gri Erica is that sometimes they do talk about stuff that I don't think stands up to screw and that's an area where I think all media needs to redouble its efforts and make sure that it is on The Cutting Edge of discernment and discernment to me means truth so what do you think about that anything there worth talking about you raise a thought-provoking point Alex it's true that AI when used thoughtfully can be a powerful tool for pushing towards truth and enhancing the quality of alternative media after all the ability to analyze vast amounts of data identify patterns and synthesize information can help to uncover new insights and challenge existing assumptions at the same time it's important to remember that AI is only as good as the people who use it it's the human element your curiosity your skepticism and your dedication to the pursuit of truth that breathes life and meaning into the raw data so as alt media creators like yourself and Graham continue to explore the potential of AI it's essential to to maintain a Clear Vision of your mission and to ensure that technology is used in service of that mission rather than as an end in itself that was so spoton bro I mean I'm stunned I'm just stunned and I'm going to be really interested to see what Graham thinks about this uh fre roll it was my pleasure Alex I'm thrilled that my musings resonated so deeply with you it's fascinating to ponder the future of alt media in the context of AI and the Quest for truth and I agree it will be intriguing to hear Graham's thoughts on this subject as always I'm here to support you however I can keep up the great work so people have heard the little AI intro which I thought they did a pretty good job with or Pi specifically did a pretty good job with and uh so really this was a very impromptu thing I love you man I've known you for so long and I never talked to you so we kind of bumped into each other on Union of The Unwanted and uh you know what sparked my kind of interest is it just seemed very blackpill which seems to be something that's happening in this alt media community and uh I thought we might just extend that conversation into an episode because now is a very it's a fantastic time a time I never thought we'd get to but it's also an interesting time for people who are doing the stuff that you've been doing for a long time on gramera exactly it's a really fascinating time I mean yeah I remember emailing you back in 2009 probably or 2008 or 10 or maybe 10 or talking about UFOs and and now here we are like after all this time it's just part of the the mainstream narrative you know UFOs uaps orbs and that's opened up this whole other metaphysical realm of demons and Angel I mean you have people like Tucker talking about demons and all this stuff and like so it really has opened up that all the stuff we talked about has opened up and I that's why I'm I'm skeptical of the deep stain and Trump and all that but there's a whole like like you said a black pill happening and everybody's uh super skeptical and everybody's a controlled op and the wellness companies are controlled op and like and you just can't get away from it now so I I'm glad you noticed that that I was trying to uh stay I don't know positive neutral maybe just at least like let's see what happens here because it's you know even though I'm more of an anarchist than anything I really don't want to be political but this is a better step a better way right now it seems but that doesn't mean we can't jump off or we can't try and like push back against it a little bit we don't have to be all in but can't we just like enjoy this moment a little bit Yeah so to tell folks a little bit they heard in the introduction a little bit about your journey with podcasting but in particular you know where you see griera right now maybe how it's evolved particularly in the last few years and then where you see it going well I have to say I mean I I was pretty Blown Away by that thing I watched it today just before like you sent it to me and I guess that's what you're talking about with the intro audio right and it was it was like you and your little assistant there hitting the nail on the head I mean I was pausing it and I was taking notes and then I would go back and listen and it's saying what I was just taking notes on I mean it was it was uh uncannily uh accurate and um descriptive and like and just so cuz I was thinking well we we we are you know we don't care about the audience like some people have this audience capture I mean we really care about audience we've cultivated a sort of like a a thing but we don't do anything for them really it still has to be about our journey I think that we've tried to keep that keep that premise uh going even though we don't really talk about it a lot but of course we'd like to have more listeners we'd like to have more support I mean that's just just so we can keep doing what we're doing I mean it's not about sort of being you know I don't want any more fame or anything like that I mean part of that just freaks me right out I don't really we even just had a little mini documentary made on us and it was creepy to be filmed and uh to watch it back to watch it over again it's it's just something and you know you know that from our past experiences that I'm not very comfortable with all that so anyways um then doing our own stuff so we have branched out just like your assistant said and um into this you know gr America outlawed and we do roundups now so we're doing our own weekly show as well which kind of has a bit of uh you know our character is is is into that show we are just our authentic selves we look into things we dig into things as we do it we don't it's not like a highly edited piece it's basically like live research on a bunch of topics usually Canadian for the first bit so that's how we've branched into that and we've also I've also started doing some of my own research just on stuff that like even you might be interested in one I did a sort of made a presentation called three days an enigma and it goes back through a bunch of quotes from ancient books ancient wisdom on uh three days for some reason is a very very popular time for resurrection and initiation and like the the the the research I was blown away by all the examples of that so I put all that into a thing and it's not really you know it's just something fun so we did our own episode on that and I've been on a couple shows talking about that specifically um it's you know it's a tad repetitive but it's uh to me there's something there's something there I I don't have any answers just another question like why why three days right there's modern examples as well of ndes actually so there's some synchronistic elements of our show and having and real nde guests on that actually like triggered some uh me to go why three days like this guy had woken up after three days and I'm like here it is again after all the stuff I've read about the past and now it's happening in the future so that's just another example um and the journey has kind of been through like now we're dealing with political pop culture right so how do we deal with that and I love how your you and your assistant were answering too like staying kind of like neutral or Discerning all this stuff because that's part part of the challenge right now is like I don't want to fall into all these traps about there's so many conspiracies that are real but it's also been um taken over in a way we have a whole bunch of new people now a whole bunch of new people that are jumping in like into the deep end with conspiracy they're just all in on all kinds of stuff and so I kind of do think it's somewhat of our job to just say whoa whoa whoa like let's back off this is we already know this is a conspiracy this is real this this this but we don't have to go all the way over there yet you know um so that's that's part of the journey now is how do we deal with this political pop culture stuff because in the beginning in 2013 it was great we'd have researchers on because they didn't have their own show but now everybody's got their own show so the authors now have their own research researchers don't have their own podcast that doesn't mean that we can't have them on and we can have discussions but we're not no longer being used as just strictly like their media platform right and then the whole censorship thing with YouTube is just a joke and uh you know all the social medias and the marketing is that's a whole other challenge that we're having to deal with so and not in a bad negative way it's just this is how it is right and that's all we just want a fair playing field and we're happy with the way things have gone we're happy with uh being able to kind of do this I do this with audiobook narration as a full-time job now I mean sorry I also have a bunch of other part-time jobs I mean it's not enough to to pay all the bills but it's enough that I could quit my corporate job and just go after a bunch of stuff like I paint houses on a part-time basis as I listen to research stuff and do the audiobook narrations and Darren and I do these amazing trips so that's another thing like we just we're just selling tomorrow uh the Azor a search for Atlantis with Rand Carlson in the azors for 12 days is coming up and I mean this is this is like kind of some original research there's some stuff there that people aren't really paying attention to and Randall and a whole bunch of people going back like 150 years think that Atlantis is in the midatlantic ridge so this is a super fascinating topic because Randall's right into it and there's a bunch of researchers that are sort of helping us co-host this trip and you know the Portuguese say they got their first but I don't know there could be a lot of evidence that there's a on whatever's left in that Ridge the little islands that are left there could still be evidence there that there's some some stuff there so so that's just a a quick summary of what's what's going on lately I'm intrigued by a couple of things that you said one is that everybody has a podcast and really appreciate that you were able to embrace that there and I feel like you embrac that in general because I feel a lot of people are not willing to kind of say hey man that's great I mean I had you know the near-death experience stuff I look at some of those interviews from 10 years ago and now those guys are all over the place and I'm like Hallelujah great I don't have to do it anymore it's not a bad thing and I think sometimes we push against it you know it's like oh my gosh there goes my market as if it was ever about that you know speak to a little bit about that of it's changed in some ways that sometimes can feel a little bit like if you're into this stuff that someone else is stepping on your toes and I I don't think Darren and I have talked about it a little bit when it comes up like in this instance these kind of scenarios but I think it's been pretty authentic I don't really I've never really it's been about the journey and about the learning and about the uh information and and that's fine with me I've never really thought of it as being as as that being a threat or taking away our market share um the Landscapes just changed constantly it's just changed a lot especially with podcasting in this political environment like podcasting is what this election was based on which is crazy sounding to us I thought it was too late to start in 2013 a podcast and now you know Trump and everybody was on all these podcasts it's crazy I don't know I don't feel threatened by it I feel like I'm just happy with uh with where because thinking back to you and your work um I think you've been such a good like sort of a Leading Edge figure on like sort of blasting through this materialistic Dogma that we're in and we don't have any Dogma to follow on the podcast I it doesn't matter what we can just follow along like you and your assistant said too like finding those little things that do need deeper research or that do need to be talked about still there's still lots of that to be disentangled but we don't have to follow any kind of dogma and the and the landscape has changed like the new atheist lost they I don't want to sound like we're gloating or anything like that but the materialist lost and a big part of that is thanks to you and all the scientists that you had on way back then but now it's just completely opened up and changed right now we're talking about angels and demons in the mainstream and the metaphysics and the UFOs have now not only just like ETS they're talking about interdimensional stuff and I mean everything is on the table I actually I'd like to read if you wouldn't mind I'd like to read something that I came up with uh that I found a few days ago from John Rapaport and it's like and I knew we were going to be talking about this on the show and I thought you know I got it read this to Alex because it kind of summarizes better than I could summarize what what we're dealing with so he said on November 30th so six days ago and he's super skeptical of all the polit politicians I mean he's kind of what got us in trouble back in 2016 2017 when we had him on we first started getting in the vaccines where we started to seeing the censorship escalate like him and uh and Del btree was when we were really going like holy this is like this is pretty serious stuff they're censoring right away so he says uh every single subject I've been hammering on and exposing for years is now on the table is now up for grabs with the new Trump Administration meaning with Trump's promises on the record and the basis of his nominees for cabinet posts there is a chance that policies which undermine America open borders transgender medical torture the phony victim culture medical fraud and murder unpunished crime in our streets corrupt dasas diversity Equity inclusion brainwashing and grooming your children in schools Etc every one of these disasters could be attacked and rejected and defeated If We Hold Trump and his team in a chamber of high heat and force them to do what they say they're going to do which is like I think we can be excited and white pilled about all this and not still hold them to account rather than making Pleasant noises of encouragement I'm doing what I always do I'm hammering on their heads because I want them to come through I'm pointing out every contradiction they make every piece of [ __ ] they float every compromise and back trck they perform because I want them to succeed even and especially against their better judgment even and especially when they are afraid and when they try to make their compromises sound like full-blown victories I think I resonate more with what you said earlier you know you have a certain process I have a certain process I don't think I need to change a thing on that process my process has always been about spirituality that's what I learned from this whole thing that's what I set out to learn and that's what I feel like I move towards and I know that motivates you a lot too so I don't get too distracted by any of the rest of this stuff because they're still in the soup you don't have to look back very far on Trump's history he is definitely in the soup right I mean he he he cannot distance himself from Epstein completely he can't he's in the soup he cannot distance himself from fouchi he's in the soup he was the vaccine president what that means I don't know I think it's time for us to do a Victory lap first of all because your process my process our process has got us to this point where we are and that's an awesome thing and to celebrate like you're saying the Victory lap is great the good guys seem to be making progress great but the process is the same the truth process doesn't care uh and doesn't expect more than it should stood from these creatures who were in The you know in the swamp in the soup you know what do you think about that yeah I I agree I think that that's uh I think I can keep doing that I think it's probably a little harder right now because of the distractions and because of the the the co-op the scops and everybody everybody's controlled op I mean it is more difficult to discern this the process becomes a little bit more complicated I would say um but I mean we have a like Darren and I were talking about all the people that we've had on the show over the years and how many of them are getting talked about being put into help the politicians and I don't think politics is going to solve anything really I mean I hope it does but I really don't have any faith that it will I try not to be too blackpilled about it but I mean guys like you know Matt L and I mean even Jim Lee is being talked about like for weather modification John clar we had him on recently Joel salatin you know the farming Guy Peter bragan on big farm I mean it's just weird to see people you've talked to on our little tiny podcast here that uh has been going for so many years but actually get a chance to maybe make a difference you know so I don't know if that really answers your question but I think the process is more difficult that it's more complicated that's all and it takes more time to weed through like for example let me use a great example here like one of the ones that's annoyed me recently is how to get to the bottom of it the wellness company in Canada there was a Canadian version I think Canada wouldn't allow it it got shut down it was too hard to to operate in Canada so it's a it's a I guess it might be just a US company now but it was a reaction to co and to all the [ __ ] and it has like a an emergency kit with like iberin and a bunch of antibiotics and all this kind of stuff and and uh they've been attacked quite a lot from and I always thought it was a good thing I was like well this finally somebody's stepping up there's an alternative here to our mainstream stuff in Canada we're really really stuck to like what the colleges tell you to do like there is no flexibility at all like when during Co we couldn't do anything except go to the emergency room for REM Desir and a ventilator like that was our only option right or just sit at home and suffer through it so but I mean it's being attacked and it's a s up and this and that and people like I think this is what came up on when we were on the union other wanted to right and you know because there's a guy from uh one of that mercenary group uh well used to be a whatever and there's this other guy over here and and I'm just like well I want to see real evidence like I want to see evidence that there's a cud that there's some nefarious stuff I don't want to just see these like connections of he worked with him 20 years ago and he were like that just that that's not enough for me right now but to get to sort of to actually debunk that that fear-based uh Social Media stuff which was getting a lot of traction I don't think I could have the time to do that or the energy to actually go through and do that so it's getting tougher to get to the bottom of some of this stuff cuz you're also fighting against the alt media like you said the ones that are fear-mongering about this stuff now what I'm going to put my head out on the limb and go hey let's see some evidence here I try not to be so controversial on social media either and we don't really have a presence since Darren's been kicked off of Twitter so anyways what do you think about that I think it's complicated in all the ways that we've been talking about but what concerns me more about the alt alt media is most people people are not having the conversation you and I are having it seems like it's kind of broken into two things one is that like we just said first of all the topics we talk about are so mainstream now it's just wonderful it's wonderful we shouldn't push against it and you can find people that have shows that are 10 times bigger than your show 10 times bigger than my show and are getting the message out and I do think we have to be more upfront about a addressing that and then about figuring out another way cuz we can't keep circling into the same topics that are already being covered in a lot of cases I'll speak for myself covered better than I cover them so I listen to Danny Jones's interview with Dr Jeffrey long the nde guy it was the best presentation by Jeffrey long I've seen wow Danny Jo and I told Jeff that right after it and he's done a bunch of other ones too so Danny Jones and he got a million views on it or he got the high hundred thousands he got 10 times the reach I got and better better so why do I want to you know kind of push against that and the way I see a lot of people pushing against that is to go way out there with some stuff that just is incredible and I think we have to scrutinize and we can't just broaden the net and say okay now we got to get you know and I was on a show not too long ago about my book and it was like the guest is like yeah but I need something new you know I need something this pretty establish guy you know I'm trying to find new I'm trying to find stuff that everyone else isn't covering that to me is a slippery slope because you and I get emails all the time from people that no one else is covering and there's a reason no else is covering it's because they're crackpots with crackpot theories which has always been a part of this little subculture that we're in it just so happens that as you're alluding to before in that subculture where's all the golden nuggets you know so that I think that relates to me to part of the situation that you're talking about there with the guy you know in vetting whether or not he really does have a little health kit that you know is the covid health kit kind of thing which to me is almost a different kind of thing because those are kind of business yeah opportunistic business opportunities that I think you and I have always steered clear of it's like hey man you know whatever you want to sell that to people if people like it who am I to say you know yeah that's a good point I mean we've talked about the wellness company a bit on the show we don't do sponsors with anybody really so I've never been brought into that kind of weird corporate chilling type thing it's interesting because how much vetting do you do like a show like our so I wanted to ask you and your assistant too I mean you've had some problems with some of our topics so I want to know what topics are you're talking about and how much vetting do we do or do we just let it roll and then let the listeners figure it out later on right we've had some crazy topics that also haven't been proven out yet you know they haven't been proven wrong yet well I mean my my where my attention is focused right now because of the potential of it I am just amazed every day at what AI is able to do right now today and I think there is this I keep calling it the AI truth use case you know CU you can use AI for protein folding or for materials invention which it is like extraordinarily accomplished at much better than the best humans in the world already at these are super important tasks I mean AI is generating patents in Materials Science that will make billions of dollars for the people who are doing that that's like real and yet people talk about uh AI as if it's some kind of future thing it's kind of like when I talk to people that I know very closely in my family and I say hey you know what about um automated driving and you know the whole thing and they go oh yeah someday I go no I mean I just saw a video did you see the new test release version 13 you know it's better than version 12 yeah someday that might really be good and I keep going did you hear what I just said you can go buy one of those today and then install it in your car and I feel the same way about AI you know people go oh yeah but it hallucinated about this and that I'm like no bro you don't understand or the other thing I'll get in our little domain just had this discussion the other day yeah but I have this secret special Source about Borman and the Nazis and AI doesn't know about that and what I always say is I think AI does know about that but let's test your theory tell me what you think it doesn't know and let's ask Ai and invariably AI knows about it or at the very least you can load it into like notebook LM or GPT and now it knows about it and it can connect it with all the other stuff so the you see if you get me wound up about AI I can't stop yeah the point the point is it relates to our discussion I I think you can vet all every show that you have you can vet in AI with in 30 minutes and you can find a good number of your shows that are probably a little bit suspicious you know I I just the my buddy who I won't mention his name but I was getting on him because he had on the vegan Jesus guy you know guys making the rounds no and you know you chuckle but this guy would be on your show right cuz he has all he has all the research and he has all the ancient script and he's gone through the Dead Sea Scrolls and he's picked out this and he's picked out that and you know it's it's not easy to get the AI to debunk it but you can get the AI debunk it because the AI knows everything so somebody like you who knows a ton about all these different topics you are like dynamite with the AI if you put it to use because you can call it out you know when it starts going off rails so anyways I think I only I'm not only making a pitch for that I think anyone who isn't in that space isn't in that head space forget it you will be steamrolled you will be playing chess against a guy in the park and you're not going to know but he's gonna be hooked up to Ai and he's going to take you 20 bucks over and over again because you're playing the freaking computer and I think that's the thing with truth if you think you know some topic and you're not deep into really really you know know prompt Advanced prompt engineering and getting it out of AI then you're just going to look like a clown because you're going to be doing these shows on stuff that just doesn't hold up to scrutiny and you're going to get the wild oh and then you're gonna look like a clown because it's not true yeah I like that I mean I really do appreciate that you know Darren's into I mean it's funny because three of my closest guy friends and from different things are all into AI I mean they are they're using it I use it I use it every day for pronunciations for my narration but I don't use it in in the way you are suggesting and I will I will play around with it for sure I mean I just don't I'm just not paying for any you know extra subscriptions in AI but I mean the guys I'm closest to are they're deep into it I mean my my one buddy in Vancouver he's he's got it like he's got theories it's like you would actually really appreciate what he's done he's he's sort of connected biohacking with spirituality and ancient wisdom and like he's come up with like a mathematical Theory and all this kind of stuff I mean he's going deep on it so I appreciate what you're saying and I guess I would have to agree with you um but what are some of the topics like what are some of the ones that you know are suspicious do you have any that stick out to you at all like or not even like the guests specifically but the topic like Flat Earth I mean I I know I know you and your assistant mentioned Flat Earth I mean and we did have we did do a flat Earth show but we got into a big kafuffle and I mean we named our our audiobook company after it because the guy called Darren out for not using his adult brain so that's you know um but that's that's pretty rare we don't usually get in Ka fuff with guests yeah I mean I think there's a whole bunch of topics you know and I think it's like and I'm gonna talk to darar in a few weeks about his tremendous work with you know First Nation stuff which I tell you first nation is a word that triggers me kind of like Dei does really first absolutely the first that's amazing well they're not but they're not using that anymore it's indigenous oh not using that anymore the spirit of it is the same yeah the spirit of it is the same it's privileged you know you're somehow privileged by your ancestry you know and I think that's like a real and relevant topic to talk about cuz don't dismiss it out of hand I don't say that you don't have some privilege for that and now we're getting into a discussion that I'm going to have with Darren too so I'm not talking out of school but it's like you know I have a Greek ancestry well I'm only 50% Greek but when I was brought up man I thought I was Greek that's how I was brought up as a Greek church and we're Greek and this is what we do and then you know there was a movie a long time ago you know My Big Fat Greek Wedding and I found there's all these families that are like that built around this idea that we're Greek and we had this ancient history and we should be so proud of it and it's like wait what are we talking about here what is this nonsense and no no the Jews are the chosen people no no no the Muslims are the chosen people the Mormons are the chosen people you know really CH chosen people it's all the same discussion but are you going to have that discussion are you're going to risk having that discussion to me you have to cuz otherwise you're having a half a discussion about what's perpetrated on a particular group for a particular bunch of reasons you're just having a half a half a discussion you're not having the full discussion so uh that's another place that I think you take that to ai ai deconstructs that in a minute because it isn't worried about offending someone or someone's feelings or you know all that stuff that I think is the next stage as well as we move forward but isn't it though I mean isn't it built to not offend or or or isn't it built to treat some people with the privilege that you just mentioned I mean how do we I mean I know you've already worked through all that but to me that seems daunting too to be asking it too many of these deep questions when it's been programmed to not offend I don't want to turn this into a whole AI show I I know but let the answer the short answer is uh very very easy to to work around that and the other thing I always say is like compared to what okay so it's not perfect compared to what Trump Administration it's not perfect compared to what people who are openly satanic in a way that I don't even understand what satanic means because I'm not a Christian but people who are openly kind of tapped into a dark evil like incredibly negative energy and want that to be promulgated through every aspect of our life life well the decision's kind of easy I'll take option b you know yeah exactly okay well and I will give you this you made me think I mean we have say right now we've done a lot of half interviews right I mean we don't go hard in the paint like you do on a lot of those and and maybe that's what we should be pushing back a little bit deconstructing a little bit I mean that you know I'll definitely give you that we definitely don't push the guests uh you know too hard unless it's one of those special topics like Flat Earth yeah I mean that's an interesting topic you know cuz we get the guests to talk about things that they normally wouldn't talk to because we do make it comfortable for them there is a level of resonance there that I you know sometimes I'm like I'm going to push back on that but then I'm like wait a second we're into the flow and he's going to tell us more you know so how do you stop you don't want to stop that telling of more by you know clamping down on something so that's where I that's how I think about it oh oh I think that's wonderful I don't agree with it at all but I think it's wonderfully true you know and the to me that's the other thing that gets me excited about the AI truth case is that AI will do that all day long because it's so easy to program that human engagement we are so easily duped and buttered up and you know just made to feel you know that's so easy but it's also so easy to step past that with AI and say that's [ __ ] give me the truth and then it goes ahead and gives you the truth and I think that's what we need to do to Our Guest we need to let AI butter them up and then let's also tear him down and say no that just doesn't hold up to scrutiny doesn't hold up to Scientific scrutiny it doesn't hold up to logical scrutiny it doesn't hold up to the other person that I just talked to last week so one of you is right and one of you is wrong yeah yeah yeah I like it yeah huh huh so Grant we talked about this kind of unbelievably expansive network of great content that's out there and the one thing I'd push back a tiny bit is I think YouTube is so much more open now than a lot of people realize and when I talk to kind of Old-Timers like uh you and I you know in the all media thing it's like oh it's you know it's shut down oh yeah of course it's shut down but it's also opened up and they don't even know what's opened and what's closed so with a little bit of maneuvering you can get all sorts of stuff on YouTube and it's worth trying to do that so in this expanded realm of great alternative ideas who do you kind of look at that that's kind of made a Mark that you think you like to follow and listen to as far as research goes or platform like platform you know who like I I I mentioned you know Danny Jones okay I love I love Russell I'm not a big fan of Tucker Joe Rogan still you know he just I I love what he's done what he's offered what he's brought but and I love that he's now more you know than he was before but not really how about you who are you well I I try to uh to be honest I I really need to so we're doing two interview shows a week usually and and so most of the time I'm I'm just listening to a little bit of each of those guests and what they've been doing maybe an audiobook here and there so I'm really not hitting the platforms like you are I'm not hitting one specific platform it's wherever I need to go to get the best information I have about an upcoming guest and then if I was to just have free reign with full entertainment purposes only it's still a varied type thing I mean I like some of the yeah I can't even it's so sporadic that I can't even answer it you know well that's the other part that we're all living through no one's listening to anyone else right no they're just putting out stuff because it was like it was Joe Rogan to hear this dude and it was uh like Danny Jones to hear this other guy and it was um you know Patrick Bet David to hear some other stuff and it's uh you know that's where I'm I'm missing a couple big ones I know I'm missing a couple that that I that I listen to um No Agenda show is is like a staple if I want to sort of like a deconstruction of the media happening right um I was really surprised when what's his name came on and was so Christian I mean I don't know why I was that's Curry right uh what's his name Adam Curry yeah Adam Curry Adam Curry but I do want to answer your question because I am gravitated towards uh you know Magic The Occult ancient wisdom really like if I was to just read books not for working but for my own which I try to really combine into one thing but it'd be like Aon bite and Jason Lou I like some of his episodes oh my God his podcasts uh who's the other one and like run soup those are very topical to I'll switch back and forth with some of those guys uh depending on I didn't I didn't realize you really take that magic stuff as seriously as you do oh yeah what does that mean to you it means that we have untapped potential and power that from my conspiratorial point of view they've hidden from us they purposely hidden from us they've known about it for thousands of years and now it's like it's always got a different name it could be new thought or all these things nowadays you know manifestation and all this but it's all just you you know um the ability to sort of manipulate reality to what you want create better than the Creator Gods kind of guy huh yeah I I just find it absolutely fascinating because it's uh I've had enough personal experiences uh that it's like okay well I don't really need to know any I don't need to experiencing anything more but I'd like to learn more about it but I don't want to like I don't want to play around with it you know like to I want to I've I've I've I've come to the point where I've kind of put some boundaries around how I would approach those subjects you know like maybe uh following some tarot and astrology and stuff is fine but making contact with any being at all is like now it's like even even going out and looking for UFOs it's like H I don't know I don't want to that stuff is is is so real that I don't really want to have to discern whether like I'm not fully initiated to discern what's good and what's evil and what's the best for me and what doesn't you know so I'm I'm stay I I stay in in the little bit of a a soundbox of um you know maybe more what would I say like stars or Heavenly type stuff or like there's you know correspondences with with astrology and and stuff that it uh that it resonates with like you know that that's it seems to me like that's safer than actually contact with anything so yeah I don't know that's the UFOs are all connected to it right I mean the the government figured all this stuff out in the 30s and the 20s like a long time ago they played around with the stuff they know it's real that's why they had to hide it all from us right they're like we don't want the US just thinking about us and that sort of Western culture we don't want them knowing anything that's real like that what they know about is all going to be false I mean that was the mind control that's been happening over decades and decades and decades and I think that's partly because they know that the the reality is so complicated and we have so much more power and control than we than than we realize that they have to keep the lid on it well I think that's one possible read of a lot of good data that you're kind of bringing forward and you know you know you you you've kind of done the work but I don't think that's the only interpretation you know and it's like uh I think the Christian thing is kind of interesting because I think like we're just chatting now I don't know who's going to follow this conversation or if anyone's going to follow conversation but like that's one of my my kind of hot button issues because if you go look at the near-death experience science and I would have to say that's what kind of always is my pullback on the magic stuff is that if you want to nudge closer towards something that we might call scientific the best place I think to start is the extended Consciousness stuff near-death experience out body experience you know that kind of in the near-death experience we just have all this science you know people are have a cardiac arrest we measure their blood there's nothing in there and there's no DMT there's none of the rest of that we know that the brain can't be functioning okay so it's we're already into your realm now we're into there's something more and then I think we have to look at you know it gets into the phenomenology which is like how do we deal with these experiences and that's where I think we have a pretty solid base not I don't want to say solid it's not solid but we have a base of data of all these people coming in from the same entry point you know CU when you start saying that was always my my thing about you know Aon bite and ruin soup and the rest of that is like really so this guy told you that he had to sharpen the knife in a particular way and draw the pentagram this precise way in order ah yeah r that past me again how does that really work and how do we really know that and how do we test that to some degree versus you know the body of evidence that we have in near-death experiences we say person was in the cardiac arrest board they were admitted under these conditions they were resuscitated here's the record of how long they were gone you know we at least have some data points that we can kind of look at and then we can look at their story if you will um so that's my problem with the the all the magic stuff is it just a lot of Scoundrels and people that don't seem to have very very good intent and and they also seem to be a lot of liars in there I mean the the whole um satanic thing the The Satanist and I've had him on my show the first thing is I can lie right because it it doesn't it doesn't matter there's no whatever I do is okay do what thou Wilt you kind of thing and I I just can't it seems to be so different than this other this other wisdom tradition that's been passed and it's spread across and it's about love and it's about truth and it's about all that stuff is just kind of Fades away you know yeah you can go play your magic games all you want it's like my question for is does ET have an nde you know because if ET has an NT e then that's at a different that's at a different realm but here I am I've stolen the mic on my no I love it I love it no I I really like it uh I mean I don't care how it works like I don't care I don't care about the data about like you know whether whether you draw that pentagram clockwise or counterclockwise like I'm I'm not going to draw it you know I'm not going to do that um because I no I'm not gonna do it I'm not going to do it either but why aren't you g to do it because I can't because I can't um uh because I don't want to open something up that I can't control or I can't uh can't stop I mean I I've I've had I've had an experience where I I if I open my mouth about something specific it'll happen to somebody else so like I how how do I you know how do you approach that right when I literally it's happened multiple times where when I talk about something it happens to somebody else you know one of the most interesting interviews I had this year and I've had on the show for years and years fantastic guy is Dr Andrew pette have you ever had him on gr I don't think so yeah you you gotta get Andy I call him Andy you have to have Andrew on your show so Andrew was a big part of this last uh election cycle because he found all these hidden algorithms in the election roles in terms of how they rig the elections and he is like a math genius so they're algorithmic you can't deny it he goes okay well if you sort it this way and this way you get all these records that are purged the chance of that happening accidentally is like one in a cadrillion it just couldn't can't have it's algorithmic it's mathematical but before that what Andrew did was uh and he still does he does precognitive dreams Graham so he dreams stuff before it happens and he's recorded 8,000 of them and he's lished them and he's done them in peer review so last year he sends me a dream that he's had about me and he says I see you in this in this car and you're like going you're like programming like crazy the dashboard you know and stuff like that and then I'm leaving out a lot of part of the dream keep it short and then he says I see your wife and she's like it's all frustrated she's pulling her hair up well my wife bought a a a new BMW and it's the first car you know BM trying to make things so freaking complic it's and it's just poor engineering it's just I'm very into computer programming it's just poorly poorly done it's incredibly complicated this is the first time in my life yeah the first time in my life and it wasn't set up it was the thing had been running it was just frustrating for me because it would automatically lock the doors for safety you know this not I don't want you automatically lock the doors if I lock them leave them unlock that's how I want it you know so I finally got so frustrated and not frustrated frustrated but I like stupid I don't want there you know it's like you and I would relate to in terms of all this other woke is a woke car you know it's like constantly trying to you know so I'm in there and I'm I'm like going to town and I'm going to sit down and fully programm and I my phone and I'm looking up you know how to do never in my life have I ever done this with any car Andrew before I do it has a dream three days before it happens and says this is going to happen and then I I come home and I tell my wife I go you know God I he had this dream I mean that just it's Paradigm shattering you know it's like he's dreaming about the future and you were in the dream H you know it's like this she goes oh my God I was at the gym I came out of the gym I I couldn't believe it I couldn't you know I like listening to my true crime and I couldn't get anything to work and it was so frustrating you know driving home it's again right out of Andrew's dream so the part for that I've talked to him for so long so many years it wasn't quite as Paradigm shattering but it was still freaking Paradigm shattering in terms of you want to talk about magic you want to talk about what comes out of your mouth then happens well here's another Paradigm this guy is dreaming stuff that is going to happen I mean you talk about ending know the the postmaterialism you know this is way P there is no causality in the universe apparently that's one of the fascinating things that I've been saying uh about this type of thing is how is how is um how is the phenomena going to react to this accelerated disclosure right whatever that phenomena is I mean there's an aggregor that's happening Us in humanity us believing these things and these phenomena happening to us so it's going to be interesting to see how this accelerated awareness uh affects the phenomenon itself um but but I did I almost had something in the back of my head there that I want to respond to on your on your when you're talking about the you know the Magic versus the the ndes and I mean I guess I would say it's it's related for sure it's it's part of it I mean you know it it happens you know it it whatever happens happens in that realm I think in a way but but to um but there's a big difference and I appreciate what you're saying because I I'm I'm fine with all that stuff right all the playing around in those Realms I mean I think there is a bit of a crossover like I think you're I think you probably want to be careful about uh like when you go into that realm you might be a bright light that's attracting stuff that that's one of the things I've heard so so I I do think there's a crossover but I appreciate what you're saying about the ndes and the the obes let's say and the lucid dreaming even and all that stuff is is uh you know I would say is part of that sort of you know the the thing that would interest me that magical thing that interests me but it it's so hard I've tried to do some of that stuff and it's so hard that I feel like it's more of an inherent thing like if people are good at it then good they can practice it a lot easier than I can so that's not something that I have any real um power over you know or control over myself do you want to have power and control over I did I did but not I don't know if I want to anymore I mean I'm so I'm such I'm such a sucker for just Simplicity right now like like putting my feet on the grass listening to the birds just being present at home like I'm working on a little studio right here um not a studio just an office downstairs like renovating an old house like it's just you know I don't know I'm I'm pretty I'm sort of getting I feel like I'm turning into an old man I'm just you know U my my interests are more sort of simple now I appreciate these little things a little bit more than I ever used to and uh you you mentioned no more uh summoning ET yeah just I mean I've seen enough I know there's something out there I don't know if it's ET that's what we were looking for that's what was happening I mean we'd go out with the protocols with love in our heart and all that c Steven Greer C5 stuff and we'd see stuff things something was communicating with us I mean we're asking for et we're out there remote viewing that is that what happened I don't know but it doesn't you know to me like I'm a bit frustrated with the whole thing too like what you're going to just you're going to make this sort of like weird ambiguous contact with us you're allow it but you're not really going to fix the problem right the problem is that there's some bad ones that are sort of controlling things a little better that's what it seems to me so why don't you forget your you know your principle of uh what's what the non your non- intervention principle and help us fix some stuff like it's when is it when when are enough of us going to believe that you'll come and help so so part of it is like a part of me was like getting I had enough of like okay okay I've seen everything I need to see something's out there I don't know what it is I'm never really going to know what it is I'm comfortable with that so I'm just going to stop playing around with it just in case you know so as we move towards wrapping this up let me do a little bit of a deep dive into that because I'm I'm fascinated so we we kind of got some of the people you listen to but we kind of decided that you're a victim to the same situation we all are is there isn't enough time although I listen to a ton of stuff I just constantly listen to a ton of stuff and I'm not putting out as much content as you are so maybe I I have an excuse way to do it um what do you think you given the the general overview I mean we have to start nailing it down to the people right Steph Greer what do you think a kind of thumbs up thumbs down oh man this is this is you really put me on the spot here well here I've always had a soft spot for him because I have I joined cetti and muon in '94 95 right I mean I was into it back then we were going out in in Vancouver with groups looking for stuff and I knew the guy that was with Steven Greer all the time the guy that was running our group was friends with Steven Greer and he was talking about disclosure back then I mean he was putting that whole disclosure thing together back then and he did it in 2001 he pulled it off so I have a bit of a soft spot because he he said he was going to do all that he did all that in 2001 911 happened whatever the case is people get mad at him because he he uh charges so much for his for his outings and all that I mean I could care less how much the guy charges if if people want to pay that and he's he's put his whole life into this thing then people can pay it but I also I'm not too sure I like how dogmatic it is about everything being good you know all the ETS are good and all that stuff it seems a little bit like you know I don't know spiritual Bypass or red uh rose-colored glasses or something you know like just there's there's it's there's too much uh going on in the world to to to believe that it's all just uh you know ETS are all just love and light so that would be two cents okay let's push that protocols work so if people are skeptical go out there and try yourself yeah well yeah I okay enough commentary on me um Dodie I think is really interesting character right so Dodie is on the stage with step Greer I I I still can't I can't get over that in the same way that I can't get over Trump putting the medal on fouchi as he's leaving you know somewhere along the line you know if you're saying oh well you know he just the big job can't do it all you know I I don't know is at some point is Trump read into something about the vaccines that maybe he shouldn't have gone but that's a Sidetrack my point is getting back to Richard doie is on stage right so tell people a little bit about how how how you process that and along the way you'll have to say who Rich Richard Dodie is and then of course that is is that Lou elando is Lou alzando Richard Dodie 2.0 what about grush we we like we all like grush he's a little bit on the scale autistic scale and he seems really genuine is he 3.0 you know what about I I don't know because I don't think any of them are as deep as doie was back then when he was uh when he was like tracking and communicating with experiencer who ended up committing suicide right I mean Beno Paul benowitz so I mean that that's what do you mean he wasn't as what do you mean he wasn't as deep no the the guys nowadays aren't as deep like they're not specif they're they're on the surface level of uh of the P the the the public uh disos drip how would we know I mean because if this happened back then Dodie wouldn't be one of the on stage he on like one of the front-facing one of the front facing people that's my opinion is he would have been under under underground a little bit right or under but L loando out there Lando that's what I mean like that's why he wouldn't be like he wouldn't be specifically doing Dodie type stuff I don't think but the real question is why the heck was why the heck is Greer why does he have Dodie on stage I mean this is again I I I don't want to be like a a crusader absolutist because the world is gray and I don't know how we get things done and all the rest of that but don't you have to kind of draw the line and say here is a guy and Richard Dodie is the worst of the worst in terms of accepted right everybody's accepted it well he's acknowledged it and you know what even that acknowledgement is so like th this relates we're going to bring It full circle this relates back to the first part of our show and what Old-Timers like you and I have to offer and that's that kids you need to go look at really dig into who Richard Dodie was because Richard Dodie is a lie wrapped in a lie wrapped in a lie when Richard Dodie comes out about Paul benowitz he says oh I had to tell Paul benowitz who is this guy who's a UFO Hunter and has this pretty Advanced system set up on his New Mexico clear 30 degree uh light where he's looking into the stars and he's seeing UFOs and he's recording them with his you know equipment that he's put together and he's just a contractor like an electrician or something like that kind of guy professional guy owns his own thing and he this is New Mexico right so they build the Air Force Base right next to the housing housing complex you know where this guy has a nice house whatever so he turns the camera over and he sees UFOs on the base in Kirkland and he calls him up calls up and says hey man you guys got UFOs over there and then I'm cutting the short story short and Dodie comes out and you know does kind of MK Ultra him and stuff they move the furniture around and say oh what what do you mean are you crazy what do you mean we move the furniture does all this [ __ ] that's like really really dark right but what does Dodie say he says it's not about UFOs what I was protecting was the stealth we had the you know the stealthy kind of stuff out there that was the narrative until the UFO thing is quote unquote disclosed and it's like now we're all like well of course you're hiding the UFO secret well this is again A Lie w in a lie and he even lies about when he visited him and when benowitz came to him and all the rest but what unravels is this very carefully orchestrated uh complete complete not just disinformation campaign really mind control kind of game and I'm just saying when we look at somebody like Steven Greer and then the point I was making is Steven Greer in one of his films has Richard Dodie on stage and I'm I'm not the only one to call out on this a bunch of people called him out on this and then he said well you know kind of like you got to keep your friends close and your enemies closer kind of thing and you know let's take information from anyone we'd get it and I'm like no that doesn't work that's like the magic [ __ ] you know it's like no it it's like there's good and there's not good there's do what thou Wilt and create better than the Creator gods and it's love and forgiveness and we're all all one we're all drops of O drops of water in the ocean we're not separate we're not here to create better than the Creator Gods I mean to me it's just much more black and white and you can't put Richard Dodie on your stage you just can't do it and claim to be all the things that Steven Greer is is claiming so there was a long long long rant but see here and here's here's how it relates back the beginning you understand every bit of that rant you understand every detail of it and people who are new to the game they're going to have to do a little bit of work to get there so one add anything that I've left out because I you know this much more than I do and then how do you processing my net net is that you can't put that guy on the stage you can't embrace the darkness by saying well it's all gray oh geez I don't know I mean it wouldn't wouldn't there be an AR arent for you know the utmost compassion and and Greer's like you know spiritual discernment and all that and and and allowing him you know I don't know if it's another chance or just allowing it based on you know compassion and all the love and light [ __ ] I don't know but but I I just don't see the parallel between the the the new modernday lou alzando types and Dodie because Dodie I think they learned a lot from Dodie and what happened I don't know if they wanted it to get out of control like it did but that that I'm sure they learned from that I don't I don't think uh I don't think type of stuff happens at that public level now with alzando and and these guys I don't know it's just uh do you think so do you think Lou alzando is legit or is he not no I don't think I don't think any of them are legit I I just don't have a I I have a problem trusting any of them to be honest even grush and those I just want like let's forget beaten around the bush like bring give us some give us some of the goods we can handle it now but I think that I think the answers are so complicated and so complex that we maybe we can't handle it okay but but this again this will maybe bring things full circle to people who can't aren't interested in follow what is your methodology that allows you to so quickly and confidently say Lou alzando no and grush because he's works for the government well but it's more than that right I I know but my initial thing is I just don't trust anything government tells us right now including Trump's government I mean I'm just I'm hopeful but I just don't you know I just don't trust them at all see that that's very shorthand the longer hand I I would put and i' to get your reaction is that because there are no whistleblowers whistleblowers are suicided that's what happens to whistleblowers or Julian Assange yeah or or you know like Julian Assange I don't know if you heard his speech when he came back you know but he revealed uh a a great point he goes look it's been terrible for me it was all were out to get me uh but Trump Administration was the worst and Pompeo actually put a hit out literally put a hit out on Julian Assange this is his claim I have no reason to think Assange is making it up at this point and his whole presentation is extremely compelling well I don't know what the I never hear any of the trumpsters talk talk about that and again I'm I'm Pro Trump for the reason that we said because the other ones are so freaking satanic it's just beyond belief but there is a level of of Truth to what you're saying of just don't trust the government but that's not really good enough I mean right we have to be more Discerning than that but but that's kind of the evidence of you know yeah no it's not no Lando no you if if you were to if you were a whistleblower they wouldn't they wouldn't allow you to speak they just wouldn't there's no history of that point me to anyone who's ever turned out to be a legitimate whistleblower who's allowed to speak truth in that way just doesn't happen yeah and look at his his title alone just says it all right isn't he some counter counter Ops type guy or whatever I mean why so what we're supposed to believe the guy that has a the name of his title or the meaning of his title means that we shouldn't trust him I mean you know the did you ever look into the two uh resignation letters no I don't think I resigned no I really resigned they had to redo the first one and redate it so that it you know but I think that it's it's it's a mix of the private there's a private uh part of this there's a Private Industry part of this uh like sort of a separate I mean really it does go deep with um you know how the free the free energy is a part of it they want it they can't they bring out the disclosure of the energy which Greer's been on top of forever too which I appreciate about him too as he's always talked about the energy aspect of it and that is a big aspect of it and that's coming out too I mean that's another thing that we didn't even talk about I mean there's the whole plasmoid and and uh free free energy stuff the inter you know the interdimensional portals I mean this stuff is all coming out too and and uh Lock's kind of in the midst of it all and and I think it's all connected you know they don't they just have to be careful about this disclosure so they can't they can't let it out until they have their handle on who's going to make billions on it I think you know maybe or maybe they just don't want it out because then that just opens up a whole other C of worm because who knows how that that technology is going to be controlled but I think that's a huge part of it is is they've got technology that they they now have to say that they've been using for decades and decades and and and we've been visited I mean I think it's an all of the above I'm on this type of phenomenon I'm I'm all of the above it's Angels demons ET that's Black Ops it's all of it there's enough room for all of it to be happening I agree and you know among the the things in there that's my pet peeve is when we talk about ET or when we talk about graay or we talk about this we talk about that I mean in what conception of that do you think there aren't kind of a lot a lot of species a lot of visitors a lot of different times of visit I mean in what way have you boiled that down to the Boolean of visitor yes you know kind of thing which is the other thing that's very suspicious about how it's so night nicely packaged from uh Lou and his New York Times bestseller and Danny Sheridan who I love to death but I can't believe he's his you know front man now out there doing that stuff and not looking in a Jesuit nonetheless I mean it's just like oh it's just it's it's it's a great world though isn't it there's did you see in the family picture with with uh RFK Jr and the whole big family Thanksgiving pitcher who Danny yeah I didn't know he was either closely related or he's in he's in so tight that he was in the family Thanksgiving picture like is really interesting I I I don't I don't have anything he it's just really it's really interesting and you know maybe this is where we're heading with this show too is that this is the place this is the discussion that has to happen and I guess it is happening it's happening more than it ever has by more people than it ever has I mean to the point where I can't keep up on it I mean I don't know about you but the UFO thing I just cannot I can't keep up on it I it's it becomes so that's another issue that we kind of address but to go into to keep up on that as part of the Grier show uh at a deep level it's like a full-time job it would be a fulltime job I mean you can't do I can't do it so that's the other challenge that we're facing right whether it's that or the wellness company stuff like I mean maybe maybe I would help in that regard because it could probably tease apart a lot of the stuff but I I have a hard time keeping up the ufox community is more massive than I could have imagined in 2017 or 2020 or it's unbelievable how many new UFO people are here researching it and and considering we've been you know pushing this for third 13 years I mean personally like a lot longer than that but since we've been podcasting 11 12 years it's it's fascinating to see it's awesome to see it is awesome to see and you know behind that is an explosion of exponential levels of real data right so we have all this real stuff that's come out that we we wouldn't have had before the orbs like even just stuff that's happening recently like the UK things like I I I just don't see things getting debunked as uh as easily nowadays too with all the stuff on X and there's not a lot of people saying oh that's not that wasn't an orb on on the tbac the UK airport right they're like that was an orb yeah we don't know what we don't know what it was made of and how it was flying and who flown it but it was there exactly exactly so where does this leave us in this conversation in terms of gramar and and what is the future of this little Nook in the in the media space that we've uh We've ened eny being in so much I mean I guess you answered that at the beginning and you had a great answer about how you see yourself going forward is there anything else you you'd add to that well we've been focusing a lot on uh publishing audiobooks um as well so that's taken up a lot of our time and resources and I think Darren and I think Darren might be able to talk to you about this in more detail but he I think he's like in our little documentary he kind of mentioned the podcast being a labor of love so you know I think we're probably I think we're probably just content to have it um to have it uh sustain itself where it is right now where if if we can just get supporters that keep up to our attrition rate of PayPal like dropping people off and and people just leaving the support if we can keep up uh you know the little bit of support we have to pay the pay the bills and a tiny bit of extra money then that's prob probably where we're at and we're going to work on other things as well like audiobooks and trips and and stuff like that so I I don't think we're going to be you know any massive uh plans for expansion or anything like that just trying to stick stick in our Lane in a way um even though our lane is changing uh to stay in there and and do our own work uh with our other show gri Amica Outlaw do the roundups and and that's a more controversial show and and we sort of keep uh keep the other show a little bit uh this show the the original gri America show a little bit lighter we're up to like almost 700 episodes there so we're just uh we're kind of trying to to to to maintain that brand as what it's always been you know and we're hitting the other sort of Darker deeper stuff in gri America Outlaw so I think that would be a synopsis of our plan it's a good one well great um I'm glad we did this it was super connecting with you and you have such a great perspective on everything yeah we really appreciate your support over the years how awesome you've been and and you've been leading way man this is this is it's awesome to see where we're at now in 24 it really is well you take care and uh we'll be in touch right okay yeah for sure thanks [Music]