All Things LGBTQ Interview Show: Kathy Anderson

Hi, welcome to the All Things LGBTQ interview show where we interview LGBTQ guests who are making important contributions to our communities. All things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpillar, Vermont, which we recognize as being unseated indigenous land. >> Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. >> Hi everybody. I'm here with Kathy Anderson who is a short story writer and novelist and former librarian. Welcome Kathy. >> Thank you. I'm very happy to be here. Well, it's great to have you and I'd like to read your biography if you wouldn't mind. Uh Kathy Anderson is the author of two short story collections, Vamoose Stories, uh published by Vine Leaves Press in 2026. So that's kind of hot off the presses, although it's been a few months, huh? >> Yes, June. uh and Bull and Other Stories which was published by Autumn House Press in 2016 which won the Autumn House Press Fiction Prize and was a finalist for the publishing triangle's Edmund White award for debut fiction, the Lambda Literary Awards and Forward Indies book of the year award in short stories as well as long listed for the story prize. That's a long list of accolades. Um, her first novel, The New Town Librarian, published by Nine Star Press in 2023, uh, was a finalist for Forward Indies book of the year award in LGBTQ plus fiction and the Goldie Award for debut novel from the Crown Golden Crown Literary Society. So, you are a former public librarian uh who worked for over 25 years in smalltown public libraries in southern New Jersey, the setting for the New Town Librarian. You are most proud of your books that your books are in libraries all over the world, including Australia, Ecuador, Scotland, Switzerland, and Turkey. You live with your wife in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Welcome again. >> Thank you very much. Let me start by uh let's talk about the novel if we could from the getgo. >> Uh I read it and enjoyed it and um it really took me back. But if it's agreeable with you, I'd like to read a couple of passages that I particularly loved. >> You're such a smart observer of the literary scene. The first line that I think is great um is a minute paused. I'm sorry. A minute passed as slowly as a chapter in a bad book. Quite a great line. [laughter] Then my next favorite passage, uh, Nan is speaking and she's talking about, um, a book that showed all too clearly that when you achieved a big literary reputation and were a best-selling author, no one dared to edit you too closely. Just been my experience so much. It really resonated. And finally, I have to I I wrote great after this passage. Um the Nan the heroine is talking about trying to draft um retirees into I think a committee. Many were retirees. They were so booked up with traveling dinner clubs, lunches out, gardening, babysitting, volunteering at the hospital, chair yoga, painting classes, and pickle ball games that they all were almost impossible to convene. How great, how nice to hear that. It's so true. It's been certainly my experience of retirement and yours. >> Well, I have a wonderful I love being retired. I retired >> times. >> Oh, it's the best. I tell everybody, but um I also have had the experience of just today trying to make an appointment. somebody in my local um senior uh community wants me to do something for them and it took us 12 emails to find a comparable date that we could get together. >> It's ridiculous. It's crazy. >> It's wonderful. It's such a gift and people have trepidation about it and I want to say please just go for it. It's you can't believe how good it is. >> Um so let's talk about libraries. I am five years older than you. Do you happen to remember the Meg Christian song owed to a gym teacher? >> Yes, I do. I heard her sing it many times. >> I know it. And I want I tried to my partner had never heard of it, weirdly. And so I tried to play it for her and the you know recording was very spotty. Uh, but it's about a young girl's first crush on the gym teacher. And if you'll permit me, an autobiographical moment. My first crush was on a librarian. And I grew up in Buffalo, New York on Fairfield Street. And at the corner of the street was the Fairfield Library. And we all all the little kids went there. All my friends in the neighborhood. And there was a young woman who I think she was a college student and I was probably between 8 and 12. And so I don't think she was a full-time librarian, but she worked there. And um it was my first crush. [laughter] And I, you know, I loved it when she was there. She lived around the block and I went and I looked at her house and uh oddly her name was Linda, which is my partner's name. But anyway, when I was reading your novel, it took me back to the Fairfield Library big time. I remember specific sections of it. I can place myself there. And um libraries have been crucial. I you know, this is I won't go on too much more, but you know, I was living in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina and they made I was teaching and they made us teach all as we were evacuating. So the libraries were invaluable. I remember going to South Carolina and using the library. And my final appreciation involves my mother because my mother and grandmother moved down the street. So they were right across the street from the Fairfield library after I had left for college and moved away. And my mother became involved with friends in the library. And you know it really was central to her social life. So, three cheers for librarians, you among them. >> I love the library love stories. I get them a lot and it's such a wonderful thing to work in a field where you're loved, you're appreciated, and really is very true on a daily basis. And I think for writers, the very first decision like that's crucial is how am I going to make a living? So, I remember getting out of college and realizing like I needed to make a living and I was a writer already. how am I going to do it? And I came from a library family. We went to the library regularly. I have seven brothers and sisters and so we were all in charge of our own book stacks and I loved the public library. So that was like an um you know a natural place for me to head. And I have to tell you being a librarian is the best way on earth for a a writer to make a living because you see every kind of person. You hear all kinds of stories and it really enlarges, you know, your life scope of what you could know on your own. >> And another passage from your novel, I remember the heroine says, um, people just come to the library to sit and be peaceful. And that reminded me, I interviewed our um representative at large, Becca Balant, and she said whenever she goes to a new town to speak, if she has extra time, she goes to the library and just sits there because it's so peaceful. So, it's such a widely used resource and I don't know if it's appreciated enough, >> but your work is bringing that into the world and was really fun. I thought >> the statistics they come out with every year, I mean, you know, there's this kind of like prevailing notion that nobody needs libraries anymore and blah blah blah, but when you look at the actual statistics, libraries are busier than ever. And that's typical in bad economic times. People have to go get things for free uh that they would normally not. And so, you know, there's also a lot of very positive uh stuff happening to kind of fight all that gloom and doom about libraries. >> Well, and it also was is a site of contestation as you know >> and I happened to be conferring with the local library here in Milio about LGBTQ books at a time when they had booked a drag queen story hour and it had become uh national news. you know, right-wing groups around the country were calling them day and night, but they prevailed and it was a really successful event. So, um, tell us, if you wouldn't mind, about the Queer Liberation Library. >> Well, it's something I just kind of stumbled on, and I always like to talk about it as a former librarian because I don't think a lot of people uh have heard of it. It's fairly new. So, it's an online free digital library of queer books, all kinds of books, all kinds of age uh related books, and uh all you you enter it through Libby, which is the library uh ebook and audiobook free app that comes with your public library card. So, I mean, it's very accessible queer books to anywhere, anyone in the country. No questions asked, no, you know, no process. I'm not affiliated with them in any way, although one of my books is in the library, but um so I'm not a big expert on it, but I certainly have used it as a reader and I'd love to people to know if you have any interest in expanding your access to gay books through ebooks and audiobooks, go to Queer Liberation Library through your Libby app on your public library website. >> Well, let me ask you a question that's not entirely related. Um, but I'm interested. Um, you have three different publishers for your three different books. Would you mind talking about them? >> I would love to. Um, nobody ever asked me that. So, thank you. So, my first book was uh published as a result of winning a book publication contest. So, the Autumn House Press uh was is very Yes. Isn't that a beautiful cover they did for me? >> It is. >> We'll put it up. the uh so their purpose as a press is to uh publish people who haven't been published with their first manuscripts in general. I'm saying and of course they do other things but these book contests is how they find uh authors and publish them. So that was the first experience. So they don't necessarily you know like many small publishers they're trying to do a lot of things for a lot of people. So uh so after that was published my next book which was the new town librarian that was a very different type of proposition. It's it's a fun book. It's a humorous book. It's contemporary fiction and it's not at all the type of thing that that press publishes. So, I went to a different press and they are strictly an LGBTQ uh press, an online press, which I don't know if everyone knows, but many presses today, especially small presses, they're print on demand. So, they have a very >> yes, they have a very online presence. So, they they sell directly to consumers. They have their own way of doing things um which many of the more uh newer publishers do. So, they were perfect for that book because um they know how to get the word out to people who like books like that. Older, it's a book about an older woman. It's um sexy, funny. It's not like deadly serious lit lit literary fiction. So, that's perfect for their um that publisher. They do a lot of genre fiction. Um so, then this publisher Go ahead. >> Let me ask you, so can you just or can you how do you order it? How do you get it? you should be your >> well they're available on all um the usual platforms bookshop which is the Amazon alternative Amazon >> which [laughter] I book shop is I'm a devote >> and you can also go directly to the publishers they can sell to you directly so that's the beauty of it all there's really if a way if you find a way to buy books that suits you feel free and by the way if anybody listening out there wants to ask their local library to carry my book I am not oppose. I love [laughter] when people go in and say, "Oh, you don't have this book. I'd like to read it." There's usually a form you fill out. And many times libraries are happy to buy a book they don't have in their collection because simply they know, "Well, this one person wants it. That means other people probably want it and they haven't seen it by other means." So, so then for Vamoose, um this came about as um just searching for a home for a a literary fiction short story collection. But this press, Fine Leaves, is international. It's womenowned. It's a small press. and their whole focus is uh commercial but not commercial in the sense of uh they're looking for um things that cross the lines between literary and commercial which is kind of my area and so um I love everything about their whole company. the books they publish are so interesting and varied. Um, and the fact that it's international is another one of those amazing things about the time we live in that people living all over the world can just as easily order these books and have them arrive um by whatever means they want to. You know, it's all digital and it's like magic really. So that's that's how it works for me. >> So back to the novel. >> Yes. I noticed to my delight that one of the um dedications is to your book group and you name the members of your book group. I love that. >> Um so of course I have book group questions. It's uh by the way my book group is reading Vamoose right now and we're going to talk about it Sunday. >> I'm so happy to hear that. That's awesome. And uh it prompted me learning about it from Julie uh prompted me to read all your other read the other collection of short stories and you were kind enough to send me the novel. But anyway, tell me about the group book group. How long how long have you been meeting? How often do you meet? How do you choose selections? And what are you reading now? Well, I am proud to say that I am the president for life, [laughter] which is a joke because of course book clubs are, you know, anarchist societies. However, um I founded it 30ome years ago. Um and what I did was I I was a librarian then and I had a couple librarian friends and I said, "Look, let's uh here's the thing. We're going to make it very low stress, low pressure, very [clears throat] casual. The only thing we tried to solidify was a regular meeting date. So you could put it on your calendar and not, you know, have a conflict. So um something about this formula of setting it up in a very uh if you didn't read the book, you you can certainly still come. If you didn't like the book, you can come and say you didn't like the book. We don't ever go by the prepared questions. My group wants to just talk about the book. They don't want to open the back of a book and look at a book guide that says book club questions because again anarchy [clears throat and laughter] >> and those questions are so canon. You know how would you feel? >> Exactly. So the other like very uh and then core members we have core people that have been all 30ome years and of course it's a friend group more than anything but um over the years what has been important is to be open to whimsical selection I'll call it. So somebody goes on a trip to a country that no one else has been to. they might come back and say I want to read a biography of this uh famous person from that country and basically well we all say yes our only other steadfast rule is that it has to be a book available from the public library and we have usually four or five public libraries represented so you can't get a brand new book which is really good uh because there's too too many holds to have it by a certain date right so the beauty of that is we'll discover an author separately, you know, and then we'll say, "Oh, let's read an older one of that person." And there's so many books we've discovered and authors we've discovered that way. We read fiction, non-fiction, um, biographies, all kinds of books. And it's basically every member if they cross something that comes ac if they come across something that piques their interest, then we say, "We'll put it on the consideration list." So, we have a rolling list and then I'm the person who keeps it going in terms of dates and times and where are we going to meet and I'll say here are two books suggested for uh upcoming months. Um can you check your library and make sure you can get it? That's step one. So, that is of course because books are now often $30 >> to get a hardback. >> So, we're trying to eliminate a barrier. And by the way, at this point in time, my book club is not all librarians. There's two former librarians. Everybody else is not a librarian. So, what we we often say is like, you know, keep your eye out for a friend who might fit in. And um that works out a lot of times, but at this point, we're just such old good friends. >> So, you mean once a month? >> Once a month. >> And it's we have a pattern of like the fourth Thursday And you meet in person, not on Zoom. >> We meet in person. We meet in person. We did during COVID the lockdown. We met on Zoom and we really all were real happy to get back to in person. So we go out to lunch and we alternate between New Jersey and Philadelphia, which is very close. It sounds far, but it isn't. Uh we have a fast speed line that runs between the two. And we'll pick a restaurant in each place and just, you know, alternate. Again, it's sometimes we find a restaurant that goes with where the setting of the book, sometimes we don't. We're not big about rules. [laughter] >> Well, in the novel, the book group, you don't have to you and we just discovered this not that long ago, the kind of book group, you must have known about it for years. Um, where you don't even have to read. You just talk about what you're reading. You don't have to read. >> Yes. Because >> it was really a revelation. Your point in a book group is you just want to be around people who want to talk about books, right? It doesn't have to be structured any certain way. So there have been some months where uh we haven't had time or everyone's traveling or whatever. So we'll say, "Okay, just show up and we'll talk about what you have read." So you can do that occasionally, too. It doesn't have to be the whole book club. >> Although I do like talking about one book and sort of thrashing it out with people. >> Yeah. Um, I was able to teach literature for many years, so I was spoiled. >> How long did it take you to write the novel? >> Well, the novel was the seeds of a was were born when I actually worked in South Jersey and that was many years ago. So, they I had the characters, the main characters, I had the setting. I just loved the writing about the little town just based on the real town. that I started out working in with its heavily Italian-American demographic and all of that is in the novel. All of the food, all of the associations. Um, so I had a lot of it, but you know, here's how I write incredibly slowly. Uh, I'm working on a million other things, the short stories, the two collections, and then but the novel, I would work on it for a while, get to a stuck point, put it away for years, come back to [clears throat] it. they it never died inside. Those characters never died. I wanted I knew that they were going to be in a book, but I couldn't get there for a long time. So, you know, I would say that that's probably the longest I've worked on anything, but it was off and on. And then there came a day when it's just I don't know what it is. the universe a gift your own persistence saying to yourself I love these characters they deserve a whole book and so whatever it is one day it came together and all of a sudden I had the pieces I had the structure I had the time frame I had everything I needed and from then it went pretty quickly >> you prefer writing short stories or novels >> they're just so different um I don't I can't say I have a clear preference I will say that short stories for me are the most beautiful and the most difficult because every word it's like poetry in a sense every word has to be just right and also so much has to be accomplished within 12 pages or three pages or however long the short story is. You have to have a whole world that starts happening. You have to have um somehow convey enough about the characters that you know why they're doing what they're doing. Something has to happen. You have to feel a strong emotion at the end. You have to know what went on. And it's just incredibly hard to pull off in my opinion, in my experience. And when I do pull it off, I just feel this incredible high. It's just such a thrill. I think um short stories are kind of an underappreciated genre. I love them. But uh is there another another novel in your future? >> I never say never. I I have many things that I'm working on just like I described the other process. You know, I started and I also have been a playwright for about five years. So some of the stories that I had been working with ended up being plays. So you it's just, you know, following along, nurturing. Maybe it's like gardening. I don't know. I only know my own way of doing this. And um you know, it's just uh a process that can take a lot of time. I I really try to stay open and [clears throat] I try to kind of be with the people in the story and the setting and what I think it's about enough to know like are you a longer thing or are you a shorter thing? And sometimes I've written, you know, huge amount of pages and when I actually get to that point of what is it going to be, it gets distilled down into a very short, very punchy story. So, it's kind of amazing this process. You really don't I don't know when I start out, you know. >> How long have you been writing? >> I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. >> That's okay. >> Um, I've been writing seriously since college. Um I you know we started out uh writing uh poetry and was published a little tiny bit in poetry. Um and then you know just over the years uh I started writing more short stories and I really fell in love with them and kind of concentrated that for a while. The plays that I had produced were came out of short stories for the most part. So that was a whole interesting experience to you know to just grow and and try different things. Well, um, back to novels. Besides Barbara Py, what other novelists do you like to read? >> Well, I have to say, um, I was thrilled to death that one of my favorite novelists actually wrote a blurb for Bamboo, and it's Kevin Wilson. So, everywhere I go, I talk about, you know, how amazing of a novelist. He's also has written short story, writes short stories, but his novels are just very unique. They're funny. They're smart. They're very much like you pick it up, you start to read, and you know it's a Kevin Wilson story. So that is also, I think, very hard to pull off. Um, they're quirky, they're hilarious, they're very unexpected novels, so I recommend them to everyone. >> Great. Um, now let's turn to VMoose if we could. um the subject of the hour in all [clears throat] of your interviews. Um let me tell you, I first learned about it when Julie Enzor sent me a copy and I fell in love with it. I opened the first um short story and my god, [clears throat] you know, it it um went through a long period of these women's friendship. It I mean, it was so refreshing. As I said on our new show, for once it's not, you know, something about 30somes, you know, uh it's it was so refreshing for me to read a span of a friendship. Um and then, you know, I was hooked from there from then on to read other stories and other other collections your other collection. Um, you say uh that if correct me if I'm wrong about this, I understood you to say that a common theme in the collection is that the characters experience new beginnings. Is that true? >> That has to do with the title as well because vamoose is a word about exiting and getting rid of something or someone. And uh it's kind of I see you laugh. It's kind of a funny word and um that's you know intentional that I wanted something that would hook people to know that you know there is humor in it but it's also a very definite word of like get out of here and I someone described the women of this book there are 15 stories all very different things that they're dealing with so there's not a common thread in the what they're dealing with except that this this word was used and I think it's appropriate unhinged situations So, uh, the what these they're all older women and, um, the older the 15 stories of, uh, 15 different older women. The other thing I really like to think about is, and I picked them to come together for, is the subversive element of these women. And what by that I mean, they don't talk like you might expect an older woman to talk necessarily. They don't do things that the stereotypical 70-year-old or 50-year-old that we often see in movies or literature or whatever. So, these women to me feel very much like they're subverting what they're supposed to be doing and thinking and feeling. >> Well, this seems like a good time to for me to ask you to read a selection. Do you have something that you'd like to share with us? I'll read a little bit from uh the story that was in Sinister Wisdom which is Julie Enzer is the editor that you mentioned in case anyone doesn't know and it's called Gerald Dean from Philly. >> What page is it on? >> It's on uh 123. >> Geraldine from Philly. Geraldine was a little buzzed from her afternoon martini. Actually, a big glass of pure gin with fat green olives bobbing in it. She kept herself well lubricated, starting her day with a glass of procco, having a glass of white wine with lunch, a cocktail mid-afternoon, red wine with dinner, and a brandy before bed. The best antidote to the crap that come came with aging was a steady stream of alcohol, she found. Once she turned 75, Geraldine felt that knowing she could die at any moment made life very dramatic. It was like an excited dog ran by her side the whole time. Was this the day she keeled over on a bus felled by an aneurysm careening around her brain? Would her heart stop while she sat on a bench in Philly's Writtenhouse Square enjoying a double gelato? Or would she have a fatal stroke right on the sidewalk in front of her rowhouse like her neighbor Sumi had? She was on her way to her favorite Italian deli when she felt a very strange feeling like the hands of the universe were pulling the air tight around her. What was about to happen? She looked around confused. I don't hear sirens. No one is running. There's no reason for me to feel on high alert, but I am. Then a man leaned over and vomited a copious amount of orange liquid all over the sidewalk and kept on walking as though nothing had happened. The orange puddle spread and spread wider, making everyone step into the street to avoid it like shorebirds scurrying from an incoming wave. At the same time, a swarm of pre-teen boys on bikes rode down the middle of Broad Street, stopping traffic, throwing their bodies into back bends with the bike still moving, using their hands on the pavement as brakes, doing high wheelies, and then disappearing around a corner like a like geese in V formation, flying away. Next, a grinning man with tattoos covering his neck shouted, "I'll hold you down and piss on you." at his little boy who yelled back, "Then I'll poop all over you." Finally, a big dog with a whole ear of corn sticking out of its mouth trotted down the street all by itself, looking for all the world like a fat man chewing on an unlit cigar. This was exactly why she loved living in Philly. It was so interesting. But she had never seen this many crazy things all happening at the same time before. This was not right. Overcome by all the commotion, Geraldine briefly forgot where she was going. She edged to the nearest building and put her back against a wall. She refused to be one of those old people who block sidewalks oblivious to their impact on others. It all felt so mystical and meaningful to Geraldine. The upside down boys on bikes, tattoo dad and his son, the dog with the corn cigar. The city's atmosphere was positively roing all around her. What was it all about? Why did it feel like it was adding up to something? Standing there with her back against a wall, half her brain was focused on the scene around her and the other half was searching for what she was supposed to be doing. She wasn't forgetful. She knew she was headed to the deli. She had her backpack strapped on, her wallet zipped into an inner pocket. She even knew exactly where her list was. Left back pants pocket and what was on it. Garlic stuffed olives, blue cheese, those very thin rosemary crackers, fresh pasta, and those Italian wedding wedding cookies she couldn't live without. But she was stopped here on the corner of Broad and Chestnut Streets for a reason. She was sure of it. She felt like a big hand had pushed her up against the wall and made her wait there. What was she waiting for? A sign, a message, a gift? Joelle. It was Joelle walking down the street right in front of her. Joelle roared. I mean, sorry. Geraldine roared Joelle's name out. She was so excited. She loved saying that name again after 50 years. It tasted so damn good in her mouth. Joelle didn't turn around. Instead, she picked up her pace, throwing her canes out further in front of her and moving her braced legs forward in longer steps. Geraldine caught up with Joelle and stood in front of her, blocking her from moving. "It's me, Geraldine. You remember?" Geraldine's blue eyes were as blank as mannequins. "Do I look that different at 75 than I did at 25?" Geraldine wondered. She still had the same men's haircut that the other office girls teased her about. But now she wasn't afraid to wear men's clothes that fit her blocky body better than women's clothes ever had, and construction worker boots that made her feel powerful. When she walked the city streets, high stepping over potholes and stomping up subway steps. Her hair was gray and her face had more wrinkles now, sure, but would that make her unrecognizable to Joelle? It didn't seem possible. So, I'll leave Joelle and Geraldine there on the corner. [laughter] >> I remember uh you mentioned in an interview where the interviewer was very Philly centric that you said this is such a Philadelphia story. Well, tell me, do you have a writing process? Do you have a Well, first let me ask you, do you have a writing group? I do not have a writing group now but when I started out maybe you know I was in one for probably 10 years and another one for beyond that. So I definitely you know loved and that helped me a lot in the beginning but after a certain point you know I think what it really helped me with was to listen to my own inner voice to listen to be to how to be my own editor. So I thought I think it was really invaluable for a certain part of my life but um now I find uh you know the struggle is to keep really true to your own uh knowledge of what's working because you know there's always if you ask six people you can get six opinions. There's never a consensus in writing. >> I've heard [clears throat] that anecdote about lesbians. If you want five opinions ask three lesbians. >> There you go. What's your writing process? >> Well, I try to be uh, you know, on a not a strict schedule, but it is my pleasure to start most days with a couple of hours. Um, and I'm a big proponent of the the morning pages, which people know from the book, The Artist's Way, where you free form 15 minutes or so, uh, just without stopping. So, you get your your self, your flow going. It could be about what you're dreaming of, what you want to have for breakfast. It doesn't even matter. It's more of you tuning into, you know, your creative flow. And it's very surprising often how it starts you out on the day. But, you know, I I'm I can't write in public. I like I don't I'm not a coffee shop writer. I like my office with the door shut. Um I'm you know, just like that quiet time. And I try to at least take most mornings that way. Start most mornings that way. Um, [clears throat] I'm also very disciplined in the sense of keeping track of if I have a story that I think is good for a certain type of magazine and um, you know, they only open for submissions for three hours on a Tuesday in November, which I'm I'm exaggerating a little bit, but not that much. You know, they're inundated with submissions. So, I try to really um, I have a a very practical side to me where I have my spreadsheet. I have u a plan for when to submit, how to submit and so on. So that takes also a part of my writing practice is is uh paying attention to deadlines. When I was trying to get these three different books published, you know, they're each required really in deep knowledge of the small presses and how they operate, what they need again, what what are their deadlines and submission policies. Um I had tried in the past to get an agent using those same things you know research um taking note what do what does everyone need want and when and then fulfilling that that did not work out but still very valuable to um have that experience. >> What made you decide not to get an MFA? >> Oh it it wasn't for me and that's I have nothing against it in general. I think everybody has their own way of approaching the writing life. Um, I chose instead to get a masters in library science and become a librarian. Um, and what I felt like what I needed, I needed to be around books. I needed to work somewhere where my soul would not get sucked out of my body every day making money for people that I cared nothing about. So, I I knew, you know, that's more what I needed. I also uh it's not that I was apart from a you know writing community like I said I was in writing groups for many many years they were incredibly helpful um I also was fortunate enough uh to be admitted to the breadloaf writers conference at a crucial point in my development and met amazing an amazing mentor who's still in my life um and just be exposed to the best of literary fiction that you know exists on the planet and Then um after that time went by and I applied to um to go to the Sani Writer Conference for that same reason. So I learned a lot. That was um both of those were situations where your work was critiqued where um you were able to make connections in the writing community that I wouldn't be able to by myself. So in other words, that's those are the ways I kind of approach what MFA typically gives people, which is the writing community, skills, feedback. just kind of approached it in my own way. >> Um, what writers have changed the way you think or approach writing? >> Wow, this is so hard. It's just there are so many people that I rever and have had such a huge impact on me. And I think the, you know, the ones that come to mind probably are the ones from my more formative reading, uh, early reading days. Um, you know, people like Grace Paley, such an incredible act activist. >> Her stories, her short stories are just wonderful. >> Her short stories are so unique and so memorable and so um so much in her own voice. And that I think is what always draws me is um to look for people that have that very strong voice. Um and what is mine? Not to be like her, but what is mine? Um I have [clears throat] because I'm such an avid reader and I've always been, you know, around libraries picking up things and trying and who's this? I never heard of this uh person for many long years. I I followed people that struck a chord with me. I watched how they developed. And um another one like that that comes to mind is Lori Osland who also I was so thrilled wrote a blurb for uh Vamoose. And what I love about her writing again utterly unique uh short stories. She also has a novel but I kind of relate to her as a short story writer. And her latest book is called Are You Happy? totally recommend that to your book group and any book group. Um, it's that combination of writing about real people, which that's what I love. I have nothing against people who love fantasy or I think everyone should read exactly what they want to read. But what I crave is when I'm reading books and stories where I can kind of learn maybe think about how I'm living my life and how can I do something differently and you know take it's very related to work a day life everyday life that's the kind of writer I like also love writers who are have hope and I'm always seeking for writers who you don't feel crushed at the end of a book you feel hope and it could be just a little glimmer of hope. Um, so humor, hope, and and realism. That's kind of what I go for. >> One of my favorite lines from Grace Paley, she began a short story by saying, "Parol Marks, the fly in the ointment. [laughter] >> That's it. She can sum up so much in so few words. That's why I love her." >> In an authentic voice, for sure. >> Absolutely. [laughter] >> Well, we have time. If you'd like to read another selection, we'd love to hear one. >> I would love to. This is from just the opening part of Welcome New Lesbians. >> And what page is that on? >> That's 93. When Grace and Patty Anne came in dressed up for their first lesbian New Year's Eve party and carrying homemade fudge in a Santa Claus tin, Moren, the party host, said, "Quick, look up at the ceiling. Look up. Look up." Before she even said, "Welcome new lesbians or happy new year." So, Grace and Patty looked up. What the hell did they know? They had never been to a lesbian party of any kind or to Moren's house before. So, they were feeling excited and compliant. They wanted to be excellent lesbian party guests. There was nothing on the ceiling. It was a regular white ceiling in a 1940s Philadelphia rowhouse with all the plaster cracks nicely speckled and painted over faint lines like raised old veins showing through skin. Still, Grace and Patty Anne craned their necks, training their eyes on the ceiling. "Keep looking up, please," Moren said as she hustled them out of their coats. Grace and Patty smiled, keeping their eyes on the ceiling so they didn't see the beared teeth of Morin's dog, Lucifer, which made it a huge shock to the couple when Lucifer lunged and sunk its teeth into Grace's calf and then Patty Anne's arm as she pulled the dog off Grace. "Down, Lucifer!" Moren said, dumping their coats on the sofa. "Want a treat in the kitchen?" Lucifer growled and snapped at Grace and Pattyanne. The dog was a mahogany Rottweiler with fang teeth and a huge black spotted tongue on full display. The couple huddled together, still in the doorway, afraid to move. Now, Lucifer, that's enough. Moren tugged hard on Lucifer's collar and dragged the dog into the kitchen. Usually, if people look up at the ceiling, the minute they come in, Lucifer calms right down. She can't stand eye contact with strangers, so that was a bit odd. I guess she really didn't like you, but now she knows you and she'll be fine next time. Moren said, "We have to go to the emergency room." Grace said, "We got bit." Pattanne said, "I'm bleeding. She's bleeding. We're bleeding." "You just got here. The party's getting started." Moren said, "Let me see. Maybe a little band-aid would do the trick." Moren pulled up Grace's pant leg to inspect her calf. "Hardly broke the skin," she said. "Good thing you wore wool." She unbuttoned the wrist button on Patty's shirt sleeve and expertly rolled the sleeve up like she was dressing a mannequin in a store window. This one's a little deeper because you only wore a thin shirt. But you're fine. It's nothing. Wash it up well. You'll be fine. Grace and Patty looked at each other. Even though they were a brand new couple, they could already send thoughts to each other. Her freaking dog bit us both. Let's get the hell out of here. Grace sent to Pattyanne. She's acting like it's no big deal. Maybe we're making a big deal. Are we making a big deal? Pattyanne sat back. The doorbell rang and Grace and Pattyanne stepped away so that Moren could let in more party guests. A crowd of lesbians poured into Moren's house, hugging and kissing each other, waving bottles of wine, and carrying platters of cheese and cookies. One woman bought a whole fondue set like a chef on a TV cooking show playing to the crowd. She set it up on the dining room table, melted dark chocolate in a fondue pot, and spread out chunks of pineapple and pound cake, sliced bananas, strawberries, and raspberries. Soon, women were dipping and moaning all over the dining room. Grace and Patty clutched paper towels to their bleeding parts. Every so often, they lift up the towel to check their wounds. An hour into the party, they were both still bleeding, but only a little bit. Do you want to stay? Grace sent her question to Pattyanne with a raised eyebrow. Pattyne shrugged, sending her answer. Sure, I'll stay if you'll stay. They went into the second floor bathroom together, rinsed off their injured parts, threw away the bloodstained towels, and kissed each other on the mouth before they headed back to the party. They were such a new couple that each kiss was still a sweet surprise. This is how we kiss to say good morning. This is how we kiss to get sex started. This is how we kiss after a dog bites us. If there was anything Grace and Pattyanne both despise, it was highmaintenance women. This whole shaking off two dog bites incident was proof that they were not highmaintenance women and was an extremely promising sign for their budding romance. They might be old new lesbians, both of them in their 50s when they fell in love with each other at book club and left their husbands, but they were still go with the flow women. So, I'll leave them there. And there's a book club creeping in again. >> Absolutely. That's fabulous. And there were so many interesting um you know um stories like the yoga glass. I love that. >> [laughter] >> Thank you. >> I heard another interview in which you said it took you a long time to write it because you were trying to figure out the character was with you for a long time, >> but then you need you had to figure out how to condense it. >> Yes. And that I was in a condolini yoga class and about halfway through it came to me. And this is why writing is such a you better love it because there's no time frame for it. you better just love this whole experience of waiting it out because I mean it was many long years since I had the character and like tried to do different things but in that yoga class I thought that's it that's the structure um before class begins 10 minutes in she can run through her whole life but in a way that a reader would not be you know lost >> because it's tied to the moment so I mean that literally was a bolt from the blue that is, you know, such a gift when it happens that you're given the answer to what your subconscious has been working on. Um, and there's no point in saying, I wish the subconscious would work a little faster. That's just not how it works. [laughter] >> And it's you really, you can tell hearing you talk that you really have developed, you've practiced so long, you're really confident in your instincts and your style. And, you know, that's that's so impressive. And it's really needed because probably the the main thing that keeps writers, you know, that gets writers published is persistence. So in other words, you could start with 10 people that have very similar gifts. Um but if you if you get crushed by rejection or you get tired of no uh not getting what you think you want, you know, it's that persistence that just like you're doing it for the love of doing it and at some point you do get an I I feel like I do did develop enough of a confidence to say this story is I love this story and it is worthy of being published. And then if you get the 50 rejections before you get the 501st acceptance, you're fine because you have that built up. >> Um, what do you hope readers carry with them after finishing your work? Well, I hope that they have that kind of buzz you get after you laugh because I think even in the stories where you know the action might be dark, you know, I have had so many people tell me how much they enjoy the humor of the whole thing and relate to it because we've all been at that funeral where somebody starts laughing about whatever is going on. you know, it's just it's part of how we cope with the tough things is those moments. And I really uh I always want to leave people with some feeling of, you know, hope and um that there's a light at the end of whatever the people are dealing with. And um that's really important to me. I I I see search for that as a reader too. I do not want to be uh depressed beyond you know the ability to move when I finish something even if it's beautifully written and important you know as a reader I want to feel like that has helped me deal with my situation in a positive way or you know it's made me laugh or it's made me have empathy for another person that's really important to me too that I've had readers write back and say they had no experience with that type of person that I was writing about, but they they now understand that person much better because in the story they were with them. So that is amazing. >> What uh kinds of stories are missing from our cultural conversation? That's a huge question. Well, I think that this book vamoose was when I saw how many stories that I had about older women, I thought I have again as a reader, as a viewer, as an older woman myself. I just turned 71, you know, I'm always searching for women I can relate to and um in books and TV and and media. And so even though that's you know somewhat improving I think we just have a hunger for stories uh of older women uh and the invisibility is you know has been well documented. Um and especially you know if I have the privilege of introducing women who are not at all you know powerless. They are in charge of their own show in this book. And time after time, no matter what the woman is, is is she a nun? Is she a housekeeper on the run? You know, is she a stilt walker walking down the middle of Philadelphia Street? Like, these women are handling their their lives with their own power. And that's what I craved and I love writing about. >> You are so right. And that's why your work is so important. Um, what does community mean to you as a reader and writer? >> I would have to say I don't have a narrow definition of that. I feel if I can relate to that character, human being to human being that kind of the facts around what category they fall in don't really mean much to me. So, you know, I don't, for example, I would I would never limit myself to just reading queer authors or queer queer books. It just um it feels too limiting to me. So, my sense of community is just like living in a city and why I my wife and I, we always often talk about what we love is how many different types of people you encounter on a daily basis, including in our neighborhood. Um, and that is a community. It's all kinds of people, all kinds of um you know different types of encounters you can have with people that are meaningful. So not just an of course we all went through that [laughter] separatist phase probably early on in life when we were more when you know women only weekends and women only concerts and all of that which I am grateful I had but I grew out of that in about five minutes I think. [laughter] >> Well shout out to Philadelphia. I just saw that there's a new mural of LGBTQ pioneers that has gone up. Have you seen it? It looks fabulous. >> Yes, we have all kinds of history. And I'll say this as a a li former librarian, the whole American Library Association's gay and lesbian task force back in the day is what they called it. started with a a library lover in Philadelphia, Barbara Giddings, and she really went to the American Library Association and organized and raised visibility of like we need to get gay books in libraries. This is a life-saving thing and it's it's not okay that this category is not often in public libraries at that time. It's back in the early 70s. And one of the reasons I actually became a librarian was because the library association agreed with her, formed the first professional um task force to get queer books in libraries. So it was like that little stamp of approval. The American Library Association is giving you this book list. You don't know which books to buy here. We're going to vet them for you. We have gay book awards and so on. So, it's always been a very activist uh profession and I'm really proud to say that it started here in Philadelphia, that part of it. >> Well, that's very good. And of course, you have Giovani's Room. >> Yes. >> I'm Honored Bookstore, >> the oldest in the oldest queer bookstore in the United States. And it's continuously in um been in service. Now they have smartly recently in the past I don't know how many years um joined forces with um another group's nonprofit to help bolster how difficult it is for queer bookstores to survive. So they now are a combination of thrift store and bookstore but they still get new books. They still have new book readings. They still act just like the Giovanni's room that we all knew and loved for so many years. But you can also wander in there and buy a fabulous outfit. [laughter] >> That's great. You know, I've been tuned into libraries in anticipation of talking to you, and I think there is now in Boston a new LGBTQ library focused on youth, but it's also kind of a multi-service thing. I mean, you know, >> just read a little bit about it, but I don't know anyone involved with it or anything. Do you know uh any more about it? No, no, no. I just thought, "Oh, I wonder if Kathy knows about this." >> Yeah. Well, it's one of those good signs, you know, that things are not as bleak as sometimes, you know, are portrayed. Um that, you know, kids are really dying to know the history and to read contemporary authors. And I think that's what's driving a lot of the uh you know these versions of queer libraries whether to digital or online >> or or digital or in person. >> Tell me what are you working on now? >> Too many projects to uh even begin to um figure out. >> Is that a good feeling? >> Oh, it's a great feeling. And I you know never I feel that talking too much about anything is like the kiss of death. So, I [clears throat] just will say I always have at least four or five kind of viable things going >> and slowly working my way toward whatever whatever is next. >> Oh, that's encouraging. Have you done a lot of interviews about the book or um it came out in June? >> It just came out tour kind of subsided. >> It has kind of subsided. It was mainly around Pride events. So true. >> Um I do have a few more coming up, but um yeah, it was, you know, that part of it is is over, but I have the happy um things coming up like uh there's a big international Well, it's a big queer literary fest in New Orleans. You I'm sure you know about Saints and Sinners. >> Oh, absolutely. That's right. I saw that. >> Yeah. I'm getting to go speak there and um participate in panels and uh read at that event in New Orleans in March and it will be the first time I've been there as an attendee or as a participant. So I'm really excited about that. >> That is nice. I taught at the University of New Orleans and I was a moderator for a panel early on but then I left after Katrina and it has continued and really flourished. Good for them. It's very much flourishing, I guess, as part of the Tennessee Williams literary festival. So, that's always good. This joining forces keeps everybody healthy involved. I used to love the Tennessee Williams Festival, too. That was much more long-standing. It's right in the French Quarter. You're going to love it. Well, great. Um, we're drawing to a close, believe it or not. This has been so much fun, Kathy. But let me ask you before I let you go, what final words do you have for our audience? >> I guess I always like to end by thinking about the fact that um you know, the world is so full of trouble right now, but um you know, there's equally that same amount of joy that we can find in so many things. And so, you know, uh during those times when we all get down about what is going on to also be looking for the equal amount of joy and pleasure because that's also true. >> That sounds like a good note to end on. Kathy Anderson, thank you for joining us. >> It's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for joining us and until next time remember resist.