All Brains Belong VT - Brain Club: Authentic Systems Change 9/1/2026

All right. Um, so welcome everybody. I'm Mel Hower. You they pronouns, executive director of All Brains Belong. Welcome to Brain Club. Today we'll be talking about authentic systems change. Um, and we are going to be revisiting a conversation with Dr. Winnie Luby. Before we begin, closed captions are on. You just have to turn them on if you'd like to see them. Depending on your version of Zoom, you might see the live transcript closed captioning icon. If not, look for the more dot dot dot and choose show subtitles. You can also do the same and choose u hide subtitles if you want to turn them off. Um before we begin, thank you as always to our brain club supporters who make it possible for us to be here with you. Um providing education about neurodiversity and neuroincclusion. If you're new to Brain Club, welcome. Um we are here at All Brains Belong supporting the health and belonging of people with all types of brains and we do that in lots of different ways including Brain Club. Really glad you're all here being part of what we're doing. Brain Club is our education program where we demonstrate our approach to neuroincclusive culture for shifting broader community awareness of the issues of concern and importance to our community. It's also a space where we broker alliances with other communities who come to learn. Um and hopefully uh we promote new ways of thinking and being and we all take this forth into the rest of our lives and that's how culture change happens and that's exactly the topic of today's break club. Everyone's welcome here at brain club. Neurody divergent people and those who support them. People who are exploring their neuro identity and anyone with any type of brain who wants to learn about neuroincclusive culture. There are multiple right ways to participate here. You can have your video on or off. Even if it's on, we don't expect anything of you. Feel free to walk around or move or fidget or stim or eat or take breaks or anything else that needs doing. Um we will have time for discussion after we watch um our interview with Dr. Lubie. Um and during during that time you can use mouth words or the chat. Um but you also don't need to. Observation is a valid form of participation. And in addition to affirming all aspects of identity, um this is a program oriented around the collective community. Really glad you're all here. Some of the things that you will notice here at Brain Club, this is for education purposes only. This is not for medical or mental health advice. It's also not a support group or a place for audience members to discuss one's own trauma or make individualized requests. Um, you will hear some systemic critiques today um of broken systems, but it's about systems. We criticize systems, not people. So, we invite you to listen, to learn, to observe um what a neuro inclusive space might look like. Maybe pick up some new words and concepts and think about how what you hear connects to your life. If it's your first time at Brain Club, keep coming back. U might take a couple times to get uh get the lay of the land and how we facilitate it. And Lizz's going to put some frequently asked questions in the chat. Um during the interview with Dr. Lubie, we will automatically mute everyone um so that there are no auditory distractions. All right. So, um big announcement. Pre-orders are available for All Brains Belong's new book, A Failure of Imagination: How the Healthcare System Fails Neurody Divergent People and What We're Doing Instead. Um and um what what you'll see um is that the theme of the month is a failure of imagination where we're going to be looking at systems change and some of the things that we in this community have created together and what we've seen um and uh go through strategies of replicating um all or part of of of what we do here. Um, Lizzy's going to put a link in the chat if you want to read about the book and maybe even pre-order it or you can also ask your local library or bookstore um to acquire it. It will come out November 6th. What you'll see in this book um it's oriented as such. So why and how we created all brains belong together with our community um and what we do here both in health care and outside of healthcare in workplaces and um in uh establishing a neuroincclusive community culture and then a stepbystep to how you might um replicate um some of some of what you read about and improve the spaces that folks are in now. So um hopefully something for everyone. Um, what we're hoping you take away is that we don't need to wait for top-down systems change. That is policy change from the top down by policy makers. There are things we can do right now together. Um, and that's what tonight's spring club's going to be about. Um, strategies for centering those closest to the problem with the idea that solutions come from people who get it, who are experiencing the problems. You'll read a lot about what universal design looks like in healthcare and workplaces and community spaces and strategies for queuing safety and facilitating culture. So, at Brain Club this month, we're going to um be be looking at some of these behind-the-scen concepts and starting with the big picture of systems change from the ground up, meaning people living um and experiencing the problems, deciding to do something different together, coming together and just trying things. And then we're gonna be talking about this tonight. Um, also next week we have a special hybrid brain club. This is a community storytelling experience. Um, we'll be gathering u for for anybody local to central Vermont. We're going to be gathering outdoors on the lawn of Kellogg Hubard Library in Montpillar. Um, and then you can also access as always brain club via Zoom as you are today at the same link. Um and so we'll be uh joined by all brains belong community members both in person and virtually sharing reflections on what [clears throat] we've learned together over the past 5 years. Um if you've been um part part of this experience um and you want to share what what uh that's been like for you um we'd love love to include your perspective. Um Lizzie, can you put your email address in the chat? If anybody if any brain club regulars want to want to be part of that and you haven't let us know already, uh, feel free to shoot um, Lizzie an email. Oh, that's great, Brian. That's awesome. So, shoot Lizzie an email or even just send a private chat message tonight while you're here and let us know that you want to participate. You can um, use mouthwords. Um, you can write something. You can write something for someone else to read. Um, you can um, communicate um, via a device. You can show art, you can share music, you can share um really any way that you want to participate. So, we hope to see you either in person or virtually next Tuesday. Um but uh for now, we're going to spend the next um a little bit over 15 minutes um and then we'll have some time for discussion. Um so, uh Dr. Winnie Lubie is a program coordinator um of of the disability studies certificate program at the University of Vermont and program coordinator for the UVM center on disability and community inclusion. Um she is also a member of our board of directors at Albrins belong um and has been so uh for almost the whole time here. Um uh Dr. Luby um has a PhD in educational leadership and polish stud and policy studies with a concentration in special education. Um uh and her professional interests are on interdisciplinary collaboration, disability studies, early childhood special education, technology, and family school partnerships. And so with that, um I'm going to play our video. Um, you are welcome as you listen, you're welcome to share anything you're taking away um in the chat. Um, and then we'll have time for some discussion um afterwards. I'm going to stop. I actually think that I can just play this cuz I actually shared sound for a change. Can make this bigger. Okay. So, so the the idea of, you know, systems change and we've like talked, you know, you and I have talked about systems change before and like how that's like an important part of what we want all brain belong to be doing like. Can you can you say like what what that what system change like that, you know, mean means to you or could could mean to you? >> Yeah. Well, I think as we were talking about um ideas and [clears throat] energy and drive comes from the people up rather than um you know this top down where it's being dictated to you what you should be doing or not doing or how you should be doing it. Um and the co-creation piece I think is is part of that. um you know like uh if I think about uh I always think about like say public services like um like uh food stamps or section 8 or social security or those kind of things like those systems would work so much better if they actually paid attention to how people are using it and the barriers that they're facing with it right if they were actually acting on the things that aren't working. it would be so much easier. >> I could not agree more. And like it's actually not that hard to ask people, you know, even like and we and and but I think it's a lens. It's a lens of, you know, I really I want to know I want real time feedback on what I'm doing so that I can make little tinkers and adjustments. Um, I wonder if in like a big system you just realized that you couldn't even make changes, so why bother asking feedback? I don't know. I don't know. What do you just What do you think about that? >> Well, I think about um the importance of having folks with lived experience in those positions that can make change at that level because of, you know, otherwise you're kind of talking to the wall. like you have a few people who kind of get it and they're sympathetic, but um if you have people in positions of power who can actually lead the way and model like this is a different way to do it, I think that's the way to have the change really. So like having um you're working with people about employment, I think that's a really powerful model for sure because then those people can model for other people, right? That they can see that it can be done. Um, [clears throat] like I had a I I got asked to speak at a class few months ago and I was very open about my own like neurological challenges and my family and da but I also talked about how um I felt like I was in a very privileged place to be able to have a job that really valued all of those parts of me, right? And I had feedback from the students. They go, "Wow, it is possible to like actually be myself someplace and be and be valued and have work and take care of myself. Like I don't have to bend myself into these knots that aren't realistic or I don't have to feel bad that I can't make my brain do something different than if I [clears throat] just do. Um and so I think that's where those those changes happen, right? Like those those small moments where you can actually, you know, you never know how you're changing somebody's life just by talking about something, you know, >> right? Um because I think that it's some at least for me sometimes I don't even really I don't have language to understand my experience until I've heard someone else name it and I'm like oh I would never have come up with those words but that is the exact thing that goes on in my head. Wow. Whether I whether I hear it or I read it or or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. That's why it's just so I think it's important that even though everybody can't be happy with everything, I think it's still important to have the platform in the in opening there. Yeah. You're not going to be able to to to please everybody. >> Right. >> Right. Because if you're pleasing everyone, the only way to really do that is if you are if you're serving a group of people who has homogeneous goals. And >> you know there might be some some reason for that if that's true and it's okay to have a homogeneous goal like you know a shared goal like a shared vision like you know um I believe that I want to come to a you know a space where I can be my true self like we can agree on that goal um but but you know it's more big picture as opposed to I want this program to look like this. Mhm. [clears throat] Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I think I think it's great that you're still open to hearing all of that even if some of those things people want aren't practical or they're hard to deal with or whatever. I think that you're providing the platform is the important part. Right. We are so proud of the model of cocreating programs with the people we're serving and we're so like we're just so into that, you know, and it's like really important to us, right? And then there's this line there's this balance between like you know some centralization and some structure um and some you know balancing the organization's needs with the needs of the people in it. It's the conflicting access needs. >> I'm remembering when um my younger daughter started preschool um and she'd just been diagnosed with autism. She's only four. Her language is coming. Had lots of angry outbursts, right? And so on the one hand, we want her to be able to express herself and tell us what's going on. On the other, she had to learn how to operate in this system where it wasn't okay to do that. And it's still tricky, right? She's 18 now, and it's still tricky. Like, it's okay to be yourself. And in this situation, you have to [laughter] put a lid on it, you know? Um, yeah. And that's hard with people you don't know. I mean, >> I have always like and maybe this is just my PDA, but um like I've always just found most systems unsafe. Like they just like you just like just even as a little kid being like this makes no sense. This is arbitrary. This is not, you know, this is not open to feedback. You know, I remember even being like a middle schooler being like, you know, why why don't you ask the students why, you know? Anyway, um it it it it just always felt like not that systems are like really maybe I could say this, most systems are really designed to to perpetuate systems. they're not really like, you know, so it just it it has always felt intuitive to me that starting over and starting something new um that wasn't part of a system um would be more effective at least faster a lot at least faster to get some sort of impact to happen. Um, and maybe it's maybe it's just my brain that I delayed gratification is really hard for me. I want the thing now. I want it right now. Not because I'm gonna get distracted. Um, but because like I just it's just it's other words just too hard. Um, anyway. Um but but I and and and and I think at all brains belong it's it's all these all these little all these little things that would be really difficult to do in let's say a traditional medical system. Um, but I think that having the opportunity to share what we're doing, um, has been really cool because some of it actually is reproducible in traditional systems. But at least to get into the weeds of like, well, this is what our menu looks like, like this is what universal design for medical care looks like, and and you know, this is this is this is actually doable. you can just really anyway. Um, but because I I I think like you're saying the student who for the first time hears that like it's a thing that you can be a professional with a job and like not be contorting yourself in 50,000 ways. Like I think professionals also need to hear that you don't have to be tortured by the system you work in. >> Yeah, I think so. I think it's a very um powerful kind of I don't know if social justice is the right word, but I think the more people can be themselves in those situations, the more effective they're going to be. um the more authentic it feels to interact with them when they're being their whole selves and they're not holding back something because they don't think, you know, these other folks will want to hear it, but they can actually speak their minds a little like um yeah, like I I I really I really think I think the more this is kind of like cheesy and hippie dippy, but I feel like if everybody felt empowered to be their true selves, and you're not hiring anybody. You're just being yourself, right? And you pick the kind of job you want. You have the kind of family that you want. Um the friendships that you want, everybody happy, right? We weren't like kind of feeling pressure to clamp down some pieces of ourselves, right? Um >> totally. And think about how much like cognitive effort is required to like clamp down and suppress like all that. Well, you know, it's funny you say that. I don't maybe you know the story. I don't know if you know the story um the story of how Kid Connections got founded. Do you know that story? >> Oh. >> Oh my gosh, it's the best. Okay, so um [clears throat] a a then eight-year-old on the Junior Advisory Board. Um we were like in a backyard. Um and um I I said, you know, we've been really thinking about how do we how do we help kids feel like they belong? Do you have any thoughts about that? And this this swing of love, he says, you let us do what we love. M >> what do you what do you what do you mean well if I'm doing what I love and that kid's doing what they love like we're going to feel like we belong >> nice >> so that's that was kid connections like that I mean that is system changed from the ground up this is like a sweet little love with a sweet little idea that changes the world you know we've got 140 sweet little loves who now have friends like >> um and you know did did school solve that problem no um right so so it's uh it sometimes just doesn't have to be so complicated. >> I agree. I agree. Definitely. Yeah, that's that's a great story. I'm glad you told me that. [laughter] >> Awesome. >> Well, I I I think in my head um part of why I'm really enjoying being a part of all this this journey is because the the kernel of what you're doing feels so common sense, right? It's just so easy and is if you're able to pass on the word as much as possible, you know, I can picture like, you know, 10 years from now, but at least four or five other practices like yours would be amazing, right? Um [clears throat] all over the, you know, all over the country or wherever. Like I think that would be really really great. Really great. Yeah. And then for people to even know that it exists, they're like, "Oh, I can I can actually seek out practices like that. I don't have to stay with this thing that I don't feel good about." Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you for saying that, right? Because I think like so many people, they have they've never like even in the healthc care space, they've never had a healthcare experience that feels safe and comfortable. They've never had a job where they could show up as their true self. They never had that. So they don't know that that's possible. So you see it hopefully you you see it because you're experiencing it. But even if you don't, you know, yeah, I hope I hope that that does, you know, does help adapt people's expectations of what they should be expecting and demanding um from the their environments. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. What they should demand and expect, right? like it's reasonable to expect that you're going to feel safe when you go to the doctor or any of those things. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I I would say like as a patient um like I maybe about a year ago I went in I went in to get dental care and um there was like so much COVID going on like like so many people had CO in our practice and I went in and like nobody was wearing masks um and it felt really unsafe and then it's an open air thing. I'm going to I'll edit all this out, but but I'm you know this open night hurt thing and the person in the stall next to me coughed and I flipped out and I walked out and I I it was very difficult for me to get mouth words out but I was I was all I was able to say is like it's not safe here and I walked out. You know, I would never have been able to do that without my experience of transformation through the EB village because I am surrounded by people who think about safety and think about like I have an internal body signal that sends me a like sends me a clue that like something in my environment is not a fit for my access needs. Like I didn't have that lens before this. Oh, wow. That's a really good Yeah, that's a really good example. That's good. Yeah. I I didn't feel like I could talk about myself in any kind of deep way until [clears throat] I got involved with ABB really. I mean, it just like it spoke to me immediately as something that like, you know what, Winnie, you're going to be 50some. Some point you're going to need to be authentic with people. Why not start right now? that part of your journey. That's amazing. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. >> You know, it's so interesting because it's it it is like this grand social experiment of like, hey, I'm going to show up and try to be authentic. Um, you want to do it with me? I don't really know what that looks like. I've never really had it before, but you know, let's do it. And I I think there's so many people who are are are are hungry for such a thing. >> So too. I think so too. And when I'm with um you know in in environments where I know people are, you know, they're plenty nice, but I know they're not giving us the whole story, right? They're just kind of giving [clears throat] a a mask of who they are. And now I sit in those meetings and I'm like, [sighs] that's too bad. >> Yeah, it's too bad. It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. I I used to be like, "Oh, I wish I could hold it in that good," you know? >> Yes. Like that's not even the goal because like now my expectation is authenticity. >> Yeah. Awesome. >> Oh, thank you so much. Is there anything else you want to say before I shut off the recording? >> Uh, no. Just thank you for inviting me and I really appreciate being a part of all this. I really, really do. All right, I want to I want to add some commentary. I feel like I don't even know when I personally evolved my thoughts on this, but when we watch old interviews, a lot of times I'll like notice when there is, you know, something that doesn't match my current worldview. And the end right there really did like this whole idea of of authenticity and like I mean yeah of course it would be best to feel safe enough to be authentic. Um but I wish what I I mean that that interview was recorded maybe in March of 2024 and I mean that was a long time ago. Um half half and all brains belong lifetime ago. um just just like sort of acknowledge that like when someone is not able to be authentic, it's because it's not safe and like the what's like at the end when I was like yeah it's so bad like it's bad that the environment is not safe and I wish that I like would have named that 2 and a half years ago. I also think that like what did not come up in that discussion at least you know not that excerpt from it um it was a longer interview that we watched um a couple years ago um but it's just like when there's not even capacity to engage because the systems are so broken that they are thwarting basic needs and like the like the when you're being harmed by a system it's just so difficult to do anything and just like the the weight of that and the pain of that. And so it is hard when some when like you know I think back to like um Lizzie if you could find the um the recording from nervous system 101. I think it was like January 2025 maybe. Um, but like the idea of like when you are in a survival response and you are like collapsing, you're in just energy conservation, the bare minimum to survive. Like if you if if you're in that place, you can't actually move through to really feeling better without taking action, without moving into a sympathetic nervous system state, like an activated state. Um, and like there's something about for me moving through that activated state that like is what allows anything else to happen. But when that like shutdown collapse um I think many of the people that we spend our time with um the system is just it's so big. I'd love to open this up to what's standing out to anybody else. anything you're taking away from this conversation um or thoughts you're having about systems change or otherwise either out loud or in the chat. Hey Sierra say I had to take a phone call for part of this so we might have already talked about this. I'm sorry if this is repeating, but I one thing I always that this conversation brings up for me is is that idea of like not being able to choose what activates our nervous system, not being able to choose. We don't get to choose what makes us feel safe or not. Um, and that can feel frustrating and it'd be nice if we could choose and if we um but remember that like we we can't and other people can't choose what um what makes their systems feel um unsafe or not. Um and so starting from that place of like okay this makes my nervous system feel unsafe and starting at I trust that I believe that and that is the that is the groundwork and then kind of going from there versus I I I am so many times spend a lot of time trying to investigate like is this reasonable to feel unsafe about like why am I feeling unsafe about that and those questions can maybe happen at some point but needing to start with okay I trust my nervous system's reaction. >> Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Um, this comment in the chat, it feels like the systems that most need to change to include all brains and bodies are those least willing. I'm thinking about students unable to stay in school due to lack of safety. Yeah. No, a thousand%. Right. And I mean, not only do our students and and you know, it's just like it takes so much privilege to be able to opt out of unsafe systems. And I think that, you know, even even if a family were to recognize that there's, you know, a school environment that's not a not a fit and is causing harm, like the privilege of actually opting out of that, like you, you know, you have to be able to have caregiving, you know, a caretaker. You have to be able like there's just so much economic privilege and like all all of that that I think that people people are stuck in environments that are obviously harmful. Brian says it's such an important idea that we can't choose what makes us feel unsafe. Yeah, definitely. Yep. It's an involuntary automatic nervous system response. And I think like I say this often, maybe in brain club, maybe maybe all day long, is like the idea of part of reconnecting with intuition for me has been to like trust my nervous system. My nervous system might be overalling it like 90% of the time, but I'm like Sierra was saying like I'm just going to believe my nervous system that there is some kind of threat here and I don't need to examine it. I can just acknowledge that I'm having a nervous system response and I don't get to choose. Standing out to others. >> Hey Paul. Hello. um [clears throat] just a smaller thing but it's making me well not smaller but making me think of um people basically the service industry but a time when I gone over to France like not so many years ago and little [clears throat] like uh grocery store around the corner that we'd go to from our hotel the cashier would sit in a chair and yeah that makes sense they're going to be standing around but I just feel there's a lot of Americans there the expectation you're on your toes for me like where it doesn't really impact the job at all. It would just be great to see like if someone wants to sit or stand whichever you know as long as they're doing their job that would be it'll [clears throat] be fine with me. >> Yeah. No, totally. Just the idea of like when someone needs something um it's not a big deal. you can just have it. Um, as opposed to needing to prove that you deserve it or that you, you know, in in in the way that, you know, things get, what's the word I'm looking for? It's like I don't know the word I'm looking for, but where I'm going downstream is that now we have these tensions around like, you know, why does so and so get special treatment? It's like, well, what if everyone had their access needs met? Then we wouldn't be when people have their needs met, they can handle seeing someone else have their needs met, but that's really rare. I would add that like the the other goal on top of that is that stools could be available to anybody, any cashier who needs them. like that idea of universal design of having them available so the person doesn't have to be the one to think about the accommodation that might be helpful, figure out if it's reasonable, figure out how to ask for it, ask for it, maybe even pay for it themselves. Um, but [clears throat] if we could have a have a world where that is more not only normalized but just like routinely available. Um, pretty cool. >> Yeah, totally. And you know, we talk a lot at Brain Club about like power systems. And so like part of, you know, any kind of power dynamic is that the the system should take care of the hard thing, not put the burden on an individual to solve for the hard thing. Um, so you know, it should not fall to individual employees to ask for chairs that work for their bodies. Um, and I think universal design flips that on its head, which is that these are available to anyone to everyone so that multiple people have or like more people have more opportunities for full and meaningful participation. I wanted to say something that Lubie said that really struck me was uh you know I'm 50some years old and I'm going to have to be my authentic self at some point and uh I really identified with that you know um I've had a couple of opportunities to be au my authentic self and then I really like it and it's still like there's so many times it's like oh god it would just be so much easier to do the thing that I think is going seem normal, you know, and say or do the thing that I think is going to just like be nice and smooth and acceptable instead of like trying to actually express what's going on inside me, which unfortunately doesn't always go over really great. So, but there are some people I know I can be myself with and it's going to be good and but even then it doesn't always it's not always easy, but it really feels good when I can do it. I relate to that so much. Um I think for me sometimes I find that I have these over rehearsed neural pathways like these habitual ways of showing up and so you know even like today I was at the bank and I had to there was like a problem with our bank account and I had to go solve for it and so what did I do? I was stressed because I had to you know it's like the burden the executive functioning of going solving this problem. Um, and what did I do? I like I used this really neuronormative script. Um, I poked my head in um to the person who I thought who could solve my problem and I said, "Do you have a minute?" My gosh, why am I saying that? I hate when people say that to me. Like, I don't have a minute. And like, tell me what you want to talk to me about. But these things that just like come out, they roll off the tongue because I spent 40ome years doing that. Um and so you know even when people are safe safe people I think many of us like find ourselves repeating these habits and like the old way it creeps up. I totally agree with that. I find for me that it often takes a lot longer timewise to present as a more authentic version of myself. I have to if I'm having a conversation, I have to like take the initial thought my brain has and backtrack it and be like, "Oh, that was my automatic thought. Backtrack that. Okay, what do I actually want to say? Okay, now I say that." It's like I can only do that if somebody has time in a conversation for me to spend five seconds thinking about my answers before I say them every time. um which is not always not always feasible and not always just what I want to do. Sometimes you just want to get through the interaction and and get out of there, >> right? But like the processing time that you're describing, like you need that like processing time is an access need and if it were afforded to you, you would be able to say what is on your mind maybe as opposed to like I got to come up with the thing fast because society expects me to move fast and think fast and like all of that. Um I did a a media interview for the book a couple weeks ago and I I always ask for questions in advance. I have figured out that that helps my brain so much to like organize my thinking a little bit. But the journalist asked me something that wasn't on the list and my automatic response was like not a good response and maybe like just anyway. So we finished the interview and meanwhile like the part of my brain that's like rehearsing that and thinking it over of like rehashing like oh I didn't like that. I didn't like that. I feel really bad. This was unexpected. It was interrupting my flow and I feel stressed and this was this is hard for me. And of course it is because that's my brain, but also like I get to ask for what I need. So the guy was already down the hall. I flagged him down and asked him to come back and I gave him another answer. Um, and fortunately like that worked out, but like it's so stressful. I mean, I think a lot of people have had the experience where you're replaying a conversation afterwards and you like then you come up with the perfect response afterwards and you're like, "Yeah, I wish I said it that way." Okay. Like we don't usually get a chance to revise in real time. I'm going to read in the chat. Um Alvar says, "I have to deal with a lot of systems. Therefore, I get activated and disregulated often in interactions with those systems trying to get my needs met. Um one thing I've been thinking about lately is how to navigate the shame and stress I experience after my nervous system reacts." and I advocate accordingly. Um, despite being kind and respectful about things, 99% of the time, systems don't appreciate it and often let me know that. So, shame and stress comes up. Yeah, I philosophically don't want to apologize, but emotionally do, I guess. Um, yeah. Right. So like I think that's I don't know Alvar if this is the same or similar to like what I was saying before about the like habitual ways of showing up like I I habitually apologize because that's actually how I stay safe. Like if I'm apologizing it's kind of like a you know I think for a lot of people apologies are a fawning response like the peopleleasing part of like this is how I stay safe. these people that have power over me. If I am apologizing to them, they will hurt me less. Um, Brian says, "Lots of us find that some things that we think should be easy are not easy for anyone." Yeah. Yeah. Like even when my child says something like, "That's so easy." I don't want I don't want them thinking that like what's easy for them is easy for everyone. And just like I don't want them thinking that what's hard for them is only hard for them. Like it's just we all have different brains and some things come easier and some things are more difficult. So it's like yeah that's easy for me is the um the caveat they've been turn they've been taught to say. Um yeah comment in the chat I hate this power thing. The power play. Yeah for sure. like the power over um is part of how systems perpetuate systems and you know yeah um the chat uh what Albar said is so relatable it feels more shameful when it happens from the stress of navigating the systems for my teens care and my own Yeah. Yeah. Right. I mean, it's like these systems that make us feel so bad about ourselves. Like, we feel bad because it's exhausting and we feel bad because, and I don't know if this is helpful, but like shifting shame from a thing I experienced like a noun, shifting it to a verb, they shamed me, that reminds me that it's a them problem, not a me problem. I feel shame and you know certainly I feel shame all the time and I name it to people and then almost always someone else says that they have experienced something similar and that helps me feel less alone and less shameful. But like the verb shame that's not a me thing. Someone else does the shaming All right. Well, as we wrap up tonight, um just as a reminder that next week we have our uh special hybrid bl brain club. I'm going to share screen again one more time. Um, Lizzie, if you could put a link in the chat to Kell Hubard Libraries site about this event for anybody who wants to come in person. For folks participating by Zoom, it's just the same same Brain Club link. Um, and uh we we we hope we hope to see you um in either pathway. Um, and again, if anybody wants to share any reflections about um, what being part of this uh, grand social experiment has been like, um, we'd love for you to participate either either in person or virtual. Um, and Lizzie, if you can drop your email address one more time. Um, so anyone who's even thinking about participating might be able to take it. Thanks. All right. Thank you so much, everybody. Um, we hope you have a good week. Hope to see you next Tuesday. Bye. >> [music]