AI Won’t Replace UX Researchers | SAP Researchers on Ethics, AI & Human-Centered Design

It's been a very exciting journey so far with UX India 2025. We have a lot of speakers coming on the ground, taking a lot of insight. We in UX India, all people on the floor are getting so much energized with the knowledge that's flowing out. Uh we have people coming across different part of the world. We have today Gabriel and Tyler. Thank you so much joining us here. They're the part of the SAP team in research, of course, but it is an opportunity for us to host you in India. At the same time, we have a lot of questions related to how things are changing in the world of research. In SAP, how are you adapting? And that's why we called you here. >> Right. No pressure. We love questions. >> That's great, because usually you ask questions. This is the time you have to answer this question. Okay. >> I never I I always ask the questions, except I never answer the questions, so I'm like, "Oh, no pressure." >> Now you have to answer. >> Oh, no. Okay, we're ready. Do your worst. >> Okay. So, uh today um Tyler, I remember you were talking things up there and uh you just have completed your session there. First of all, let's start understanding how do you find this UX India 2025 vibe? >> I love it. I I really like the location, and every single year, like every single year the people are super super nice. So, that that goes without saying, because the UX India crowd is fabulous, but Hyderabad is my favorite city in India. So, I'm very happy we're in Hyderabad. >> That's great. Gabriel? >> No, I'm I'm I'm having a blast. I mean, it's uh I I I feel so lucky to be here. And like Tyler mentioned, like everyone is so amazing. And it feels also so nice to to see a lot of people that watched us last year coming back, you know, and wanting to talk to us. So, it feels a little bit like it was my first time in India last year and that was the second time and I'm like feeling every time a little bit more at home in India, which feels like, you know, my home is getting bigger. So, uh that's just a great feeling. >> That's great. That's great. And I think we are also talking second time on the camera and that's a good platform that we also have uh UX India here. Uh similarly, um if you want to I mean, you you are talking, you're going across world, talking with your users. I would like to know how do you see how this design maturity in India you are seeing from the global lens. >> Um what we have been saying uh from our company perspective is that uh there's a lot of hiring happening in in in India right now. So, I'm like um and I mean, this is like happy and sad news. I'm like uh changing my teams. So, I am like going out to a new team. So, we're going to we're going to have to think how we're going to be collaborate. We're going to have coffee calls, for sure. Coffee We have our coffee calls. Everyone knows we like coffee calls. But, I'm really excited that my new team, for example, we have uh two new uh Indian researchers that I'm I'm so happy that I can also like, you know, uh be here, better understand them, and and uh be exchanging with them. So, like I feel like uh there's a big market growing now uh for yeah, new uh jobs. So. >> Yeah. >> Your version. >> I agree that the market in India is growing and it's really cool to see UX research specifically grow in India. Um the thing that I'm seeing is that the researchers in India are learning to shift their mindsets a little bit because like 6-7 years back, they had a little trouble, I noticed like breaking outside of like the directives of their executives. They'd be like, "Go research exactly this. Here is the research prompt." And they would go, "Okay." And they would give you exactly that. But now what I'm seeing is they're pushing back and they're pushing boundaries and they're taking the research into their own hands. And an executive might give them a directive and they'll be like, "Cool. I'm going to interpret that how I need to interpret it, cuz it's kind of squishy and needs to, you know, subject to interpretation." And they'll deliver the insights that the business needs rather than what the business is asking for. And that's what That's the maturity that I want to keep seeing the the Indian researchers pushing. And I'm like very excited cuz it's it's happening and I see it. It's very cool. >> You must be having certain expectations from them, because now you already mentioned they're already doing a lot of things. What's your expectations from them now? >> Keep killing it. I don't know. They're They're doing great. So, just keep pushing boundaries and keep challenging people and like pushing back with executives, cuz design, UX, research, we all have to push back and kind of take seats at the table. And people don't necessarily know what they need from design, cuz they don't understand design, right? So, I I want to see the the UX folks in India kind of take control, grab the seat at the table and be the bosses that they're meant to be. >> That's good. Okay. And uh this this year we have a theme of AI, entrepreneurship, and design as a total com- combination of the flavor. Uh so, where I also need um you know, need to know your insight. Uh especially there are many companies rushing towards AI. Okay? I need to know, I mean um with a truly uh un- understanding with the user expectations, right? How we actually can bridge this gap of AI and experience design, or maybe you can say user experience. >> Um yes, well, like we've mentioned in our talk, we are not AI solutionists. So, we want to focus in uh the users' uh real needs and pains, and I think uh AI can be awesome, but we should also be taking consideration other uh technologies uh as well. So, I think that that's like, you know, we don't want to just like cool use cases, like also Tyler mentioned in in our talk, we want to see something that is actually helping the end users. Uh so, I think that's my nugget. And >> Yeah. >> You take it away. No, exactly we said we want to be helping the users, cuz something's not going to make nothing's going to make money if you're not solving a problem. So, rather than starting with a technology, which I think a lot of companies are doing, they're like, "We have AI, let's smoosh it into our product." Whatever happens, happens. People will pay for it. Rather than doing that, we need to be asking, "What are the problems?" And maybe AI is a solution, just like Abby said, but starting with the problems, cuz that's where you're going to drive business value. People will pay for their problems to be solved. >> Absolutely. I mean, AI is the one of the tools, I mean, we've seen transitions in the technologies, design to, you know, experience design to research, to everything that's changing things. I think AI is also one of the tools that it just groomed in. Of course, it is going to stay. It is definitely help us wrapping up the things faster. But, when you said other tools, other technologies, especially Abby, you said about it. >> Yeah. >> So, what are those other takes? >> I mean, computing, the power of computing, like, you know? So, that's what I mean about it. Yeah. >> Okay, great. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um I know Gabby, you are working on um multilingual aspects. You have championed five different languages across things. I would like to hear something about this. I mean, how this is changing the approach um matching the unique asset for you. >> Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's my superpower. That's what I'm like proud of. I used to be a UX uh designer, and when I was transitioning to UX research, I was looking into my skills, and as a designer make speaking multiple languages doesn't make of a difference, but like as a as a researcher, it does bring difference into the table. So, we did had uh situations where we had interview subjects that they couldn't speak English fluently. So, it's always makes it research much more inclusive. Uh besides, I'm also um pretty proud that I've had a fellowship in Shanghai this year. >> Wow. >> So, I've lived in in China for for 10 weeks. So, I'm like I'm like India last year was the first time I was in Asia. Now, I am like, you know, understanding more about like the Chinese market as well, and uh and and then of course, I am originally from Brazil. So, I I know South America, and living in in Germany now for 16 years, I I understand a lot about, you know, German culture, and have a lot of like friends. So, um My tip is also like have have a diverse group of friends, you know? Like, when I am like recruiting, I'm not only recruiting for interviews. I'm like also like the friends I have around me, they all have like different backgrounds, different cultures, different languages, and just by living that, you can understand so much like different ways of like perceiving reality, and uh that mind uh maybe sound like that's like not maybe the urgent background of like business priority, but it does make a small difference that has like a huge impact, and so uh that's a a a subject that I'm personally very passionate about it. So, Tyler knows. >> Yeah. This is why she she brings so much richness to our research. We we had an emergency situation. We we were doing an an interview with a user in Mexico, and we had like an emailing in English, so I was like, "I'll run the interview in English. No problem." We get on, and it's immediately apparent that he is not very comfortable with English. So, I Slack Gabby in the back, and I'm like, "Please run it in Spanish. I know you're not like you weren't planning on doing the interview, run it in Spanish." And she goes, "Go." And she just jumps right in. She just ran this whole interview in Spanish. I have no idea what happened. But she said it was good, so but she doesn't give herself enough credit. This is She is This is like an amazing superpower, very underrated. >> and I mean, and also no, man, just thank you to you that you allowed me to use my superpower, because I think this is your superpower. You really leverage the best of everyone that you work with, and you're like elevating everyone. So, uh thank you to you. >> So, actually, languages definitely gives us power to understand the entire ecosystem, okay? And that's where we will be able to understand culture, the thought process, where they came from, what are the touch points that they are going to have, be digital, physical, and that helps us check the pulse. And that is I think being very fundamental aspect. Language helps us to get that, you know, pulse of it. I've asked you two questions. One is about the foundational part, which is because the language that you are getting a championship on this. And I asked you one question about the AI. I want to see because you're you're in the industry 9 years? 5 years? I mean you will have almost, sorry, 6 years. You will definitely have um um next 20 years at least in line. What do you see with AI, with other technologies, other tech? Uh where will design industry will lead? And what's your thought about? >> Man. I think about the AI is a tool like any other tool. And if you take like, you know, history, let's say, like when a man started like working with fire, right? Like we didn't nominate it fire and we burned ourselves. Like we burned forests, maybe. So, it's like but then if you know how to use this tool, there there was a huge potential, you know, like to bring us where we are right now. And I feel like I always every time I'm talking about like any technology, I get back to this because it's so fundamental in like every tool that we are learning. And you see, you know, how how technology has been, you know, developing. And in every case, there is like really positive benefit, but there's also a lot of danger there. And that's why we want to always focus in the needs. We always want to focus on the pains because that that drives us in leading, uh you know, use cases that like best in class and that will actually makes people lives better. So, I think that's that's why we want to get back to this car and so yeah, just to to go back but but yeah, I think we're living in an exciting time but we really need to be watching out about like the consequences and like how we are using this tool because if you're like asking something to AI and you're not thinking twice, you know, and we're just getting an answer are you really exercising your brain to have our unique cuz like we are like, you know, like position unique positioned >> Mhm. >> our brain to like look into things that like even be on AI. So, if I may have an ask for everyone of us excited about AI before you using AI tool before you ask before you make a prompt, think what would be the answer from your brain. >> Mhm. >> I Don't wait for the and then you look at the prompt. And then for me when I'm using AI tools, it's always like a conversation. I use nuggets of it. I've never used the full thing cuz my brain I am taking care of my brain in the first place, you know, and that's exactly why I'm like I'm not afraid that AI is going to take your jobs because I'm taking care of like my my my, you know, >> intelligence >> human intelligence in the first place. >> Your HI. >> I I think you've inspired me. You've helped me build my answer cuz I was like I don't know but I I want to build off of this and go in a little bit of a different direction. >> it. >> But we're user experience people and we've always been the champions of the users and I feel like it's our job to like advocate for like the users' best interests, right? We're all about like do no harm. We always like talk about how bad dark design is and I feel like moving into the future as AI starts to become more and more prevalent, it's I feel like it's going to be the duty of the UX professionals to really be advocating for ethical AI as we move forward. Gabby touched on it during our presentation, but >> I the technologists, they get cut they get really excited because it's you know, maybe they don't see too far ahead or maybe they're really excited about what's in front of them of like the art of the possible, right? They're like, "Oh, what can we make?" And they're pushing technology boundaries, technological boundaries. But for the UX folks, I think we have we're uniquely positioned to see where there can be harm done to the user and it's going to be on us to vocalize this and really really advocate for protecting the user. So, it's going to be less user experience and more user protection and we're going to have to be the champions of that. >> One favorite question. >> Oh, no. >> Followed up. A favorite question of UX researcher. >> Okay. >> Okay? >> So, we'll like it? >> Yeah, you'll love it. >> good, good. >> But the answer is tough. >> Ooh. >> Given a magic wand, >> I Okay, okay. We love the magic wand. >> Yeah. >> What that tool look like to you for UX researcher? >> What would the tool look like? >> Or what kind of experience that feel to you for UX researcher which will give you quick answers, quick things going out. The system will do the interviews. They will empathize with the human. Is it something really possible done? Given a magic wand wand, I mean, come on. >> Yeah. >> Blow your creativity. >> I won't do the interviews. I don't Mhm. I like to be One, I like doing interviews, but I feel like for me at least the way I do interviews kind of deviates from maybe what you're supposed to what you're taught that you're supposed to do as a researcher. So like interviewing always depends on the the answers you're getting and like the tone and the needs of the participant and the feelings of the participant. I don't think AI can read that and get the correct answers because sometimes you we've had this you ask a user a question and they'll just go yes or you'll ask a user a question they'll like hey do you like this and they'll be like yeah I like this and I feel like an AI would be like okay they said yes they like the product cool. But I can hear yeah I like this and I can push back and say hey hey why why do you like this sell it to me and push push and I know where I need to push cuz I've been doing research for almost 10 years right? So I don't want to run the interviews but I would love it if transcriptions actually worked hmm because transcriptions are very not good right now and especially with accents they're all trained on like a like Midwest American accent. So if I talk to anybody from Germany I get like mishmash of words coming back. So I want transcriptions to work in different languages in different languages. I would love it if it could translate for me so that if Gabby's not there to translate a German recording for me I'm okay. I can be an independent girl. >> Yeah. >> Um but also like just the act of getting the transcripts into like a mural to to synthesize that's like my biggest pain point and I hate it and I'm procrastinating on that right now sorry. Um so I would love it if it could start doing early synthesis for me and then I could build off of the synthesis it's done. That's that would make my life easier. I don't know what what's in your dreams. >> I fully agree with you so I'm down on you. I feel like I'm going to shift this question a little bit and instead of like using a magic wand for like the tools I want to shift the magic wand for like we we where we want to be strategically and I think I want to use the magic wand to say that I would love to see every product team having an UX researcher directly talking at the same table with the main engineer, with the chief engineer and with the product manager to make decisions. >> We got to work in a three in a box model. >> Three in a box model, yeah. >> So every every team has chief experience officer. Probably that's that's going to run the entire show to ensure that we are human-centric, human experience centric. >> We need more UX researchers at the table making sure that >> Every project because we are in a very very less in a size and we we we don't we don't have that luxury of having a volume of experience researchers on the plate. I think that's fantastic thing that we should have. >> We're walking through that but I think we are >> we have we're we're we're building toward our our har- our harmonized operating model, right? And that's really H palm. It's really shifting toward the the three in a box. I think they're adding a fourth but like a four in a box working model. So SAP is shifting in that direction which is >> We are walking into yeah. >> Superb superb superb. Okay. Um I just move to the next part of the discussion and uh I know you know this answer but I still want to know your uh uh understanding because typically what happened today we do research for every project. We forgot that we are not here to reinvent the cycle or reinvent the wheel. It is something already done and dusted. >> Yes. >> What's your thought of reusing that? Now can I save entire industry time? >> You know I have feelings about that. >> Go for it. >> I have I have so many feelings about this cuz I've been on projects with maybe some more junior UX people, right? And there's a question that they're asking, the product team's asking the question, and the more junior people are like, "Okay, we have to go do brand new research. Let's go and interview people. Uh and but we also have to move really fast." And I look at them and I'm like, "You know that probably like five other companies have done this exact research, and they've probably published it. So, why don't Or someone in our company has already done this research. We don't have to do brand new research. Let's go find out what's out there. We can always do secondary research. That's fine and get the answers that the product team is looking for. But we don't need to duplicate effort. It's a waste of our time. It's a waste of our company's resources when another company has probably already invested money in getting the answers to things. So, it's always best to do like a cursory search internally in like a research repository or through like talking to people. Or and also doing research externally, doing a secondary, like do a Google search. Go look on Google. Ask the question. There's probably some like academic papers out there that could answer some of your questions. And then build off that. >> Same what you're doing? You also have the same? >> everything. I mean, Did I? No, no, no. I love it. I love it. No, that's it. I mean, I think it's like what also Tyler said about like, you know, the Indians researcher also like pushing back. And I think you also are you also are amazing like a stakeholder management. So, I'm like just happy that we can, you know, share all like this goodness that I I could experience like working together with you, my friend. Thank you. >> I feel like product managers sometimes treat UX researchers like we're Google. >> Ah. >> And they'll ask us questions that they could have Googled themselves. And I'll go I'll go Google it for them and be like, here you go. Cuz there's secondary research out there, but a lot of times people don't think to like just go look outside. >> And that's why we also talk about like how do you want to like how are you like looking into the problem, right? Like when you understand a problem, then you can frame the research questions. And if this is like a very like decisive way of like you want to do like good research, like understanding the problem and understanding what is the the the the the research question. And I think that's like a really good to to to have it aligned with the with the stakeholders because then it shifts the whole the whole research. >> Cool. Great. This is very specific to Tyler, to you. >> Okay, I. >> You are leading this experience research in SAPs, okay? What are the things that you are running differently in your team which gives you extra edge to get the exact result. I'm very specifically asking this from your intrapreneurial activity that you're doing internally. >> So, what am I doing that gives us the extra edge? >> To you getting the exact result that >> I can answer this. >> Oh, okay. You tell you answer. >> I think this is what the Tyler's the best with and you were talking about is the human problem, you know? And that's when the researchers come and in into place and I think you do this great. So, take it away. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> I I also think it comes >> human communication. >> Yep. Yep, that's exactly what I was going to say. Human communication. Thank you. It comes down to It's all research is all human communication. It's all you got to manage your stakeholders, but not just be like here's business. It's like forming bonds with your stakeholders to really understand what's important to them. And if you're connected with your stakeholders, then you're driving value for them and for the business. And then building connections and relationships with your users and making them feel comfortable, I think is like a big thing researchers need to do. So, that kind of gives you the edge cuz if you can build a rapport with the users, they will give you truths that they didn't even like they didn't that they didn't think they were going to speak today. They're like, "Oh, like they'll be like here's all of my encryption secrets. Don't tell anyone." So, if you're if you make a user feel comfortable, they'll tell you they'll tell you whatever. But that's like human connections, that's what it is. >> And that's why it was so nice that we were like relating to the last talk from last year because building trust, what we talked last year, right? It's fundamental for like all to to pave the way really for it for back for research, which was exactly the title of our talk. So, yeah, it was perfect. >> That's great. I have a rapid fire section here. >> So, we have to be short, too. >> Just describe yourself in one word. >> Friendly. >> My gosh, I hate this. I'm a risk taker. I feel like Oh my gosh, I'm I am I take things seriously. I'm serious. I'm serious. >> So boring. >> Here, that's the word. >> I'm passionate. I'm passionate. >> That's better. That's a better word. >> And I I take things yeah, I'm passionate. >> Passionate, that's the right word. That's good. >> Okay. One movie or a book which inspired you lifetime. >> You go first. I don't know. >> Oh, I'm like I'm terrible with this. So, I'm like I go first. Okay, oh my gosh, I love I love movies and books. Uh Uh I had the the unknown artist, actually. It's a it's a book about handcraft, the difference of handcraft from Japan and and Korea. It talks about industrialization phase and like how uh design shift uh yes, the this scenario but ultimately about uh the beauty of imperfection. I'm sorry, I'm a nerd. I I really want to say Harry Potter. Well, I really don't want to say Harry Potter because of some things got some political things right now. She's not the nicest person but Harry Potter minus the problematic stuff but it's all about like be In theory, it's all about like breaking out of your comfort zone and like being nice to people and being inclusive despite some things right now. >> I can sense what you're doing, you're really hiding. >> I'm being recorded. I'm a nice person. >> Okay. In your work days, what's the best time in your work day? >> When I go and get my iced coffee. >> Okay. >> I always mean to do >> Oh, and Yeah, yeah, that's true. When I get to see Gabby in the morning and then I go get my iced coffee. >> When we co-work. >> Yeah. >> Co-work. When we are like when we we we collected a lot of data and then we are jamming ideas. >> present. >> That's when the magic happens, I think, working together. >> I like when we're just like on Mural together silently like >> Super. >> yeah, that's fun. >> Uh what do you love about UX India? >> The people. >> Yes, the people. Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Okay. >> 10 out of 10. That was easy. Thank you. >> Yeah, that was so easy. >> Okay, if you're not designing, what are the other field that you might have championed with? >> I like a job? >> I didn't I didn't mention job. >> Oh. >> A field that you would >> A field. Um I think if I wasn't doing research, I would enjoy doing film editing. >> Wow. >> of attention to detail and like creating a story. It's all about storytelling. In my research, I get to >> Superb. Wow. Okay. What about you, Gabby? >> Oh, that's a hard one. I don't know. I've been uh considering maybe doing uh some Ayurveda courses. Uh >> Ooh. >> Yes. >> Ooh. >> To learn more about Ayurveda because I think it's such a a beautiful uh a know-how and you can take care of like uh you know, yourself and the loved ones. So, it's something I'm considering. So, that's >> Superb. Welcome to India. >> You're so thoughtful. Uh you're so You're so lovely and calm and I'm like uh Really, we balance each other nicely. >> Yeah, we really do. >> Okay, I just need uh one answer. Again, one word. How will you describe UX India 2025 in one word? Sing in that camera. >> Ooh. Um >> One word, UX India 2025. >> Uh fierce. >> Ooh. >> Which camera? That one? >> Yep. >> It's looking at me now. >> Um energetic. Yeah, energetic. Yeah. >> Superb. Thank you. This is This is very awesome discussion. I enjoyed it. >> Yeah. >> I enjoyed this. I mean there are several few questions that I asked again later which is just turning the curves and checking what do you guys really are thinking doing. It was fantabulous discussion. Thank you so much Gabby. Thank you so much Tyler. And it is really honored to have you guys here today on UX CD 2025. Perfect. For sure. Thank you.