AI Watermarking, Apple's New Devices, Future of Content Creation + From MySpace to a Robot Bartender

[music] Hello everyone and welcome to Tech Magic, the podcast where we talk about innovation, technology, AI, spatial computing, gaming, oh my gosh, and everything in between. I'm your host Kathy Hackle, and I'm joined as always by my co-host, Lee Keebler. Lee, how are we doing? How's everything in Portland? >> Portland's great. Uh, things are doing well. I know you're super busy. Um, and I can't wait for what you're doing to be able to be publicly announced, but it can't be right now. So, it is what it is. Uh, people will have to wait. Uh, how are you? >> Good. Yeah, I'm on in stealth mode with a few things. So, super excited about that. Been busier than ever. Um, I feel like I've been drinking from a fire hose of information and it's been it's been lovely. I'm going to be honest. It's been lovely. And other than that, on the personal side, it's been incredibly busy on my end. Uh, for many of our listeners in the US, especially in some other places, it is back to school time. >> BTS, but not the cool one, not the band. It's BTS, back to school. And yeah, I have two high schoolers now and a little uh fifth grader. So, I'm in shock. Uh, you know, my both my parents are public school teachers growing up and, uh, my birthday is around the first day of school, depending on when they put the first day of school. >> Happy birthday, by the way, everyone. Wishing wishing Lee a happy birthday. >> But it was always kind of like a sad birthday as a kid cuz it meant you had to go back. >> Oh, no. >> And you got your birthday presents and stuff, but you also got like school supplies masked as birthday presents. That was just always like salt in the wound. But I guess I kind of get [laughter] >> there's some great new markers for school. Wonderful erasers. You're like, "That's not what I wanted. I wanted Legos." [laughter] >> Oh no. >> Speaking of school, back to school. This was something you and I were talking about off the air a little bit. Um, one of the big problems that a lot of schools are having >> is this integration of like AI into school work. Now, you and I have talked about this at length for years now. Um and it has resulted in the comeback of uh like oral exams, people actually having to give speeches and talk about what what they've learned as opposed to writing. But writing can't be completely taken taken out of it. >> Mhm. >> And you just brought up a really interesting change that is being experimented with. I think mostly we've seen it talked about with Claude, but correct me if I'm wrong, but this idea of watermarking. Um, and and we need to kind of get into that a little bit because there's a confusion of what that means. I personally I hate the term watermarking for this. I feel like it's the wrong descriptor for what the technology is doing. So, I want to kind of kick off of like what that means. Um, because I'm a big watermarking. Weirdly, I'm a big big watermarking fanboy. There's like watermarking companies in Portland that I'm like super into. >> Are you a fan? I mean, are you like are you into watermarking because you come from the music industry? >> Yes. >> Right. Like I would assume that's why. >> Yeah, that's a big part of it. Um, watermarking in the music industry and again, let's go back. Watermarking in and of itself was an attempt and we you can still see it in our currency of this concept of how do you mark a piece of paper where you can't see it, but then like you can tell it's authenticated. If you hold it up to light, you can do that. Hold up a $100 bill, you'll see Benjamin Franklin's silhouette. That's really where the concept of water marking came from. We started using it for the ability to track the authenticity of anything um at the beginning. And so watermarking in music was really interesting because it is why things like Shazam worked when you were trying to identify music. >> Uh one of the best things that I love about my uh Pixel phone is being able to sit at a cafe music is playing in the speakers and I just can look at my home screen and it'll tell me what that music is. That's a really good example of watermarking. Um it's also how a lot of these uh social media platforms can tell if you're uploading copywritten material, >> right? Um and so this is done in a myriad of ways, but watermarking text where you can't see it in the generative AI era is super interesting and I'm a little concerned about the methodology. >> Yeah. So, I know anyone anyone who follows Kathy and her articles, you can kind of read it and you can hear Cathy's voice, right? A really good example of this from a writer's perspective is whether you like his books or not, Stephen King has a very specific voice. I >> like John Gisham or like whoever like there's a very specific type of tone style or whatever. Yeah. Mhm. >> It's it's the words that they choose. It's it's it's comma placement. If you read enough their material, you can recognize it from a mile away. They're functionally trying to adapt that concept into generative AI. So, as it outputs something, it will have a favorability to choose certain words over others in a particular context. So that when it is evaluated, it will say, "Oh, this was most likely generated >> by AI." Um, watermarking demands 100% accuracy. Uh, and I don't in the early days of this generative AI space, everyone knew you could like we quickly realized, oh, the M dash is really picking up on, oh my gosh, AI loves this mdash >> or like these short sentences or like there were certain things that were like, you know, they were they were like, you know, telltales, right? And and and as a writer, as an author myself, I actually am very cognizant, and I hate this. I'm very cognizant of removing m dashes from my own writing, which I used to rely on for dramatic effect and pause and spaces in between sentences. I don't use that anymore because I have a concern that if I submit my writing for publication, it will get rejected when someone sees an Mdash and goes, "Oh, AI must have wrote this." like no this is a very much a grammatical thing that we [laughter] have >> give you this cider which is really funny um someone would send me a screenshot of there was someone in some conference doing an event like doing a a talk and the slide had m dashes but at the bottoms had like a little asterisk that said all m dashes are human like human created or human inputed oh my gosh I was like is that that's where we're at right now I'm like lord >> it is where we're at you know uh last week I talked about this like short series that I'm I'm launching of of one of the short stories that I wrote a while back and this week I >> had to put up a video really highlighting and I wanted to do this highlighting the artist but she recorded her steps of like creating these picture frames um of her of her illustrations and had to use that to be like no this is actually human created this is not something that had any gener it's just a shame that I have to do that [laughter] it's great that I get to promote her, right? I would be doing that anyways. She's a fantastic illustrator and comic uh designer, but it it's I would rather not have the air of I'm doing this to prove >> the authenticity of the artwork that we're putting out. >> Well, to that point, Shamahider um had this really good post on LinkedIn about I can't remember if it was like some writing or something she did and it was so good that someone was pushing back asking if it was AI generated, right? >> And I'm like, wow. Well, it's like so now when something's really good, we assume it's AI generated and I remembered a video I had created in Chile and I had posted it probably a year year and a half ago. Um, and someone commented, "Is this AI or is this real?" And I said, "No, it's real." There's a part where I stutter like a little bit. There's like a little smidge of a mistake, right? And but now anything that's close to perfect is suspect >> as AI which is which is kind of silly right it's kind of like >> it's kind of like >> people are leaving I I have seen >> I have so I have seen [sighs] examples of people leaving errors in their writing >> when submitting for approvals just so there's no question that it was humanmade and then going back and fixing those errors but I have also seen examples of AI support bots adding misspellings masquerading as humans. >> Lord, >> that that was the one that got me as I'm going through all these examples of like how this watermarking may or may not work. >> And I here's here's where I see a problem with the watermarking approach of generative AI doing selective word examples. >> Mhm. If you do this, can you not just create a new tool that will say, and we kind of are this, you know, we have these AI check tools of like, is this and and quite frankly, they're all garbage, but they'll get better. And one of the things that is in these AI check tools, if you pay for like premium accounts, is they'll check this and say, "This is 75% likely generated by AI. Do you want me to correct it so it reads at 100% generated by human? The AI is going to create. Wait a second. >> You're like, wait, wait, wait, wait. >> This This is the This is where we have this like spiraling. Can it be fixed issue? How is it going to be fixed issue? Does this watermarking function work? If you have the key to how the water marking function works, can you not just unlock it? >> I don't know. We'll see. Uh it a lot of this stuff is coming out right now as like quick patch the damn type scenarios as these IPOs are are coming up and they feel really suspect to me. >> These IPOs, let's get into it. But before that, I will say this as a content creator on social media. Um, I've also seen kind of this reaction to perfection going the other way where you' see more and more of like get ready for me or like people without makeup or like something that a couple years ago I never never would I have ever done a video that looked a certain way, right? But now I'm like I could care less. Part of the imperfection is part of showing you're human, >> right? And AI can still look without you can still show up without makeup, right? I think there's also that in that reaction of like my nails don't have to be perfect or you know my fil a face filter doesn't need to be on like I can have you know um you know >> you know the algorithm doesn't social media algorithms don't tend to like have an opinion they have a direction right and that direction is to keep engaged eyes on its content and we may be entering the space where the best ability to keep those eyes directed to content is to actually relate with the eyes that are viewing it. And so if >> if you're uh on social media and you're just seeing person after person who is doing something better than you, looking better than you, being better than you according to the real that is currently in front of you, >> but you start directing your attention longer to people who are proving that that's a falsehood. then the algorithm algorithm would naturally push that content up to the top and create a new trend based on the exhaustion of the human experience. And I think that that's what we're we're hitting is like the algorithm is realizing that the masses are exhausted by the crap >> and the crap that just my gosh I mean I'm I'm I'm tired of it to be honest. Like I I I'm pretty good. I've curated my Instagram feed to be pretty awesome. Um, but every once in a while, every once in a while, things will pop up and I'm like, "No, I don't don't feed this to me cuz I'm not interested in seeing these AIs talk about whatever it is." Right? >> You know who has a solution for this? >> Who? >> MySpace. >> Well, let's talk about MySpace. Aren't they? [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Blast from the past. Like, yeah, >> they are trying to bring MySpace back. >> Yeah. Yeah. I read that somewhere in the ether out there. So >> yeah, that is the that's the new uh the new old new. Um >> I I >> the whole concept is going back. >> I don't even know if I was on MySpace to be honest. >> Oh, my wife and I were in each other's top eight. That's how far back we go, right? >> I would have been for a hot second, but I don't I I don't have any like memory of using MySpace. There was a period of time where the music industry revolved around MySpace and from my background like that you had to be on MySpace. There was no option. That's where music was being discovered, right? There was no Spotify. There was no algorithm. >> You found in and and most bands as they spun up couldn't afford to put together their own website nor host their own music. So MySpace was like a great location for it. It was the number one reason I >> took forever to get on Facebook because you couldn't host music. as an artist, I couldn't see the use case for Facebook for me. Um, and and that just came with the d uh dynamic shift of of where people were. It is interesting to see this kind of come back. And >> it to me it's a coin flip. Their whole goal is to go back to timelines, get rid of the AI slop, focus on people, and show you things, show you the people you've asked to see. >> Mhm. >> Period. And if some if you want to discover someone new, it's because someone has showed shown that to you. Um, >> didn't we had a guest though last year, Kevin? Kevin. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There was a desire to kind of like bring back this concept with the new uh new dig uh dig.com >> and that has launched and struggled to get off the ground. Um, so >> we've heard this is why there's a little pessimism around it, right? Um, >> I think everyone's like, "Yes, we agree." >> But there's My wife and I were talking about this yesterday, actually. >> One of the strongest issues that I think society is going to have, especially with meta, cuz Meta, for whatever reason, they keep trying new things and it doesn't work. And you would think that there's a lack of success happening over there. But where they are successful is most small businesses, most brands don't have the ability to put out new content and find make and there's nowhere to make it discoverable if you're not utilizing their platform. I I had a long talk with her about this with this miniseries of like I don't like the idea that I am putting time, effort, and money into putting out and self-publishing this content >> to put it up on Instagram for free so they can generate ad revenue and it never makes it back to me. Like that that's a real issue. Again, musicians don't have this problem. >> We complain about fractions of pennies, but that is still more that is being generated than, you know, content creators who are not monetizing at certain levels yet. Um and and it kind of sucks. [laughter] It really does. Yeah, like I don't know. The whole creator economy thing is super exciting to me, but also kind of a strange >> strange moment also, right? It's like, whoa, okay, what are what are we creating? I don't know if you saw this. Let's get to back to watermarking in a second, but I will say this. Arizona State University is launching a degree for content creators, for people that want to become professional content creators. I don't know if you saw that. >> I didn't see that. >> Yeah. I don't know how I feel about that. >> For it. I'm all for it. I'm going to be honest. I'm all for it. >> Do you think that's something that can be taught? >> Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. 100%. If I wish I knew more about I mean, granted, it changes every single day, but like I think there's some things that, you know, Yeah, absolutely. I think I'd be taught. Like, I've been really good at creating a personal brand, marketing myself. finding the narrative, etc., etc., but >> I wish I knew more about some of the technicalities on how to get the content out, even even with this podcast. >> All right, we've been getting all these comments from you guys. I used an AI tool to chop up these things and it does not look great. I just automated, guys. I have been busy. [laughter] So, >> I'm going to try and get that fixed. We >> We're obviously needing that fixed, y'all. Okay? So, stop reaching out to both of us and be like, "Y'all need to get that fixed." We know, okay? It was automated. AI tools are not perfect. >> We are just out here proving the need for human interaction over AI tool solution. That's all. It was a big scop and we've just proven that AI can't do everything and sometimes humans are still needed. [laughter] >> Let's blame it on AI, right? But anyway, I do I would love to like if Yeah, like if I am a serious like up I don't know like if I'm an up andcoming creat like I don't know I would still do business school over you know content creating content creator um you know degree but yeah there's a few things I would love to know how to do or not have to hire someone to do or you know yeah I don't know >> I I I can't I can't like knock it because I've seen other degrees prove themselves that I was like oh yeah Okay. Especially in like the marketing space, right? Like where they've had to turn classes into like social media marketing and stuff like that. >> I remember back in like the early 2010s that was a laughable thought of like a class around social media that doesn't even make sense. But now it's like an absolute must. It goes back to exactly where like we are now trapped in this cycle of like you have to market here. Um or there's no traction. And I think that might break. We're seeing things in court happen right now. [sighs] >> Yeah. Have you been following this situation with Meta in the courts? >> Here's what I've been I've been kind of listening to be honest to a few like content creators [laughter] on Instagram that are covering the trial. I haven't been digging deep. The funny thing not funny thing because this is not funny at all. The interesting thing is that the same week that Meta goes on trial, right, is the same week that OpenAI launches Chad GPD14s, >> right? >> So, is this a CYA move? Is this like are they newsjacking this? Did they really have this plan? Like I mean, I don't know. Is this I mean this is a play for the IPO as well. Let's talk about that. But >> let's talk about this first. The launch of Chad GPT4 for teens. >> So yeah, Chad GPT for teens is uh supposed to be a mode that is tailored to minors. >> This is the part that kind of weirds me out. It automatically activates when a user is estimated to be under 18 or selfidentifies as >> selfidentifies. Yeah. >> 13 to 17. Mhm. >> That's in and of itself a plausible moment to go, "Excuse me, what?" Um, so >> for how long have younger people been pretending to be older, like, you know, going to the store and buying alcohol when they shouldn't or what have you? >> And what what is the functionality of like, oh, this person is estimated to be under 18. If I'm super into like Nintendo video games, is that going to push me into the under 18? Like what what what is that weight? How does that work? Right. Uh I [sighs] I don't know. Is it looking for just like spelling errors and how many uh how many uh trendy words I use? I I don't I that that weirds me out a little bit. >> Here's two things, though. I didn't even think about this before, but now that you're saying this, there's two things here. One might be because they're going to be doing so much more like ads and like things are going to be sold to you on Open AI. Maybe that's one of the reasons because >> could be who knows what they're going to be sold. >> And then the other part is remember back in like I don't know a year ago they were like, "Oh yeah, we're going to do companions like erotica romantic companions >> blah blah blah blah." cuz he's like, you know, Sam Alman was saying like, you know, it's a free will and like if you're an adult, you can do whatever. Uh that might be I mean, they need money, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> They said they were doing it. They said they wouldn't do it, but if they have this age Well, this idea that you have to identify your age, >> it's wild that a company that's valued at $852 billion doesn't have enough money. >> Well, the burn rate is crazy. >> It's It's insane. It's not sustainable. >> You don't even need to know math to understand that. The the limitations here that we're talking about and that we know of is limiting discussions of high-risk topics like self harm, violence, eating disorders, and adds educational tools such as study mode, homework reminders, quizzes designed to encourage reading uh rather or learning rather than simply supplying answers. Um, okay. So, first off, I kind of feel like your tool should across the board limit discussions of high-risisk topics like self harm and violence and eating disorders. Just throwing that out there. That's not just a youth issue. Uh second, I kind of understand the educational tools, but it really kind of and Sam Alman definitely got kind of rad over the coals for talking about, oh well, why don't you just put everything about your kid into OpenAI and then it'll spit out calendars and a podcast and all so that >> we'll know everything you're doing so we can sell to you. >> It feels a little parenty here. Um, I do think encouraging learning rather than simply supplying answers is a really good mode. We'll see how that pans out because if you start doing that, are they even going to use it? Right. [laughter] >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. But this is happening at the same time as Meta's in court. um you know the whole the whole the whole idea of this lawsuit and everything that has been brought by a whole bunch of different I think is this the one where multiple states or is this one specifically? >> It's turning into multiple states. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's looking like um it's still a coin flip of how this is going to go for those are who are completely in the dark. It's it's really kind of focusing around the addictiveness and if they knew this uh this algorithm, what they're building was tied to hooking younger people into their apps uh going forward. I will say and they've denied it through and through and people are trying to say no this is just an issue of free speech and there's a lot of like other conversation but it does kind of feel like the uh the cigarette trials that happened and like yeah that a lot of it it feels that way. Uh I think that they could do a little bit better of kind of coming forthright in how these things work. So, if there's nothing there, at least you can understand that there's nothing there. Um, I don't know how it's going to land. It is tricky because you're kind of policing content and at least this country's never been super into that. That said, we did end up with movie ratings and and music warnings for better or for worse in the 80s because of these type of situations. Um, so I don't really know how this one's going to fall, but there have been some >> president that that other lawsuit that they lost. >> There is Yeah, >> from a legal standpoint, and I'm not a legal scholar here or an attorney or anything simply commentary. >> Yeah. Like there is a president here in the law, right? >> Discovery in Discovery, you're going to find a whole bunch of Well, they already have a lot of stuff out, right? >> Yeah. There are moments where it just kind of feels like a tobacco company trying to defend bubblegum flavored cigarettes. like it it just doesn't it something about it is like no this something's a miss here and we need to get to the bottom of how these things work. I I kind of have my own suspicions. >> Mhm. >> But we're going to have to wait to see how it plays out. Depending on how it plays out, it could be a drastic shift in how we see the technological future. Um that will be more interesting I feel like post >> Mhm. >> in either direction. Let me be very clear. Either way this goes, >> it's going to change, right? And uh >> I will say because at at the same time this is happening, the New York Times um had a really interesting piece this morning that I was listening to. I was with my little one having breakfast. I was having breakfast and she was like just playing around and I was listening to this and it talked about how the tech executives um limit put serious limitations on screen time and use of social media for their kids. And I've always been like that. Always been like that. And my um even my even my little one who you know she she heard a little bit about that. She was like yes mommy because you know how these things work and you know how the algorithm is. It's like cuz so many times they had complained of like, oh, you know, can't be on social media or I want a phone or that. And I've been so strict with them, but now they're a little bit older, they're actually so thankful. Um, especially with my youngest one. Um, she had a really close friend, close little friend, and and this is, by the way, this is every parent does what they need to do, by the way. This is no judgment. I'm just telling you the experience my little one had. Um, she's 10. and one of her really close close friends um actually they gave her a cell phone and they let her have Tik Tok and now she was more interested in being on Tik Tok and doing dances on Tik Tok than hanging out and playing and doing all this fun stuff and going to the pool. like she still goes to the pool, but there's this kind of like gap between my my daughter who still wants to do a lot of stuff, you know, she doesn't have access to it as do her friend who's like she she's she does a lot of that scrolling, right? Short form content and to each his own. Like each parent does what they need they want to do, but I know noticed that kind of like gap between them kind of get bigger and bigger as her little friend got more and more and more and more access to these tools. So that's just a personal experience of of kind of something I saw firsthand. >> No, I think it's indicative of what's really happening across the board. Uh even even with myself, it it is a situation where I'm currently relying on Instagram, which is not a platform that I particularly like and I even in doing so, I've got to make sure that my time is not being wasted on Instagram. But it is something that I do feel like the a fully formed mature mind has to come to that conclusion, right? As and a kid doesn't necessarily I mean I loved TV and video games as I was a kid. I was definitely a kid who woke up and I would sit in front of the TV and watch Saturday morning cartoons until my mom dragged me away kicking and screaming. But she did drag me away kicking and screaming, [laughter] you know. So there is a part of that that was at least helpful because had she not I I wouldn't ever have gone outside. Uh you know and it's a it's becoming this like discipline. Now I will put this out there cuz as as a big gaming fanatic we are seeing changes because of these type of situations in Roblox. Australia has been a big proponent and has recently secured an enforcable uh rule that is making Roblox really change a lot of their policies when it comes to children on their platform which the platform is mostly children or children who are growing up within the platform. This looks like it from this rule. Roblox has three months to fix issues uh which include making kid kids accounts private by default blocking unsolicited adult contact and improving complaint handling systems. Um if they have to do this in Australia, they're going to do this across the board, right? If you got to do it once, this is going to have to roll out. Um they're I personally know many people who work there and they do want to solve this. This is something that >> it is spiraling out of control. I've also multiple times have said publicly, why are we so mad at Roblox when a lot of this conversation gets transferred to Discord, but no one's going after Discord. I'm still going to beat that drum. What the heck, guys? This is very two-faced. I get that Roblox needs to get this fixed, but if that conversation transfers because of policy on their platform from Roblox to Discord, y'all need to go after Discord, too. Like, there there's something here that we've got to figure out these policies. And why why does it feel lopsided? You know, >> it might be because the policy makers have no idea what Discord is. >> That's fair. >> That's I mean that's really they're like this what like >> Yeah, >> I would assume that probably 85% if not more of them have never heard in the US and Australia and other places have heard what the word Discord. I mean Discord is in the sense of what what we're referring to >> which which is pretty crazy because it's got a huge user base including myself. Like I use Discord professionally every day. Uh, it it's it's it is a really good platform. This isn't me dissing Discord. This is me raising the questions of I'm just connecting what the complaints are saying and feeling like, okay, you might fix it over here, but does it actually fix it over there? I'm not even saying Discord is a problem. I'm saying the disconnect in the complaints seem to be something that we need to connect dots in um and and see what we can do. Uh, but it's a start. It's a start. Roblox is is doing their thing, you know, and on the tale of that, uh, we haven't talked about Mattel as we're if we're going to talk about kids, we might as well talk about it. Uh, Mattel is launching a game studio. I'm actually really This is super positive. I think this is cool. >> We we got the opportunity, you and I both got the opportunity to work with Mattel on some projects in the past and um, some of those in like the GGC space, but they have now spun off uh, from internal divisions. They have got a really cool game studio that they're now fully pushing out. They've already released one game called Skeletor until next time. It's a mobile game title. Um, now they're looking at a game called Uno Wild, which is currently in soft launch. I'm super excited about that. New Hot Wheels game. Uh, that I believe will be expanded onto platforms like Roblox and Fortnite as well as mobile. So, all of these things coming out. um they have actually employed now 300 artists, designers, engineers, and producers across Los Angeles all the way to China. So, while we're hearing about people getting let go, there's positivity. >> Studios getting closed down, right? This is a some positive news. Positive news. We wanted positive news. This is a little bit of a positive, you know, positive. >> I went digging. I [laughter] found some I found some good. I'm happy about this. >> So, we'll we'll see how that goes. Um, but to close this out, we have to talk about Apple before it all comes to head. Uh, and this is all good. All good. We've got a new uh expected launch for Apple. This will be the Apple iPhone 18 event. >> And when is it? What day? In September? It's usually the first couple days. >> It's expected around September 9th, pushed a day later because of Labor Day. >> Okay. >> This will be the new CEO's first keynote. So, that is an exciting moment. I'm sorry, but like it's exciting. >> Yep. And they are saying up to eight new devices could debut. Um the expectation >> devices, >> it is a lot. It's a lot. iPhone 18 Pro Pro Max. >> Um a long rumored iPhone foldable iPhone Ultra, which would be Apple's first folding phone. I don't know how I feel about that either. >> I don't know. They suspect if a foldable iPhone comes out, it could be priced as high as $2,500. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, I guess considering all speculation in the market, memory, materials. >> Yep. This is very premium premium phone. >> Um, other expected uh this one I know you're super excited about. AirPod ultras cameras for Siri powered visual intelligence. >> Yes. And this will not be. This is interesting. I was reading someone was talking about the leak and how this is going to be worse than the glasses perverts. And I'm like, "No, no, no, no. This is actually about positioning." I'm like, "I'm geeking out on it from like >> I don't think you're not capturing content, right?" Yeah. Yeah. You're not capturing content here. >> Yeah. It's like, no, >> I do kind of feel like we've distorted this concept of camera because of things like this, rightfully so. And a lot of this is like your a depth sensing camera does not see like you see, right? So depending on what these sensors are. Uh I hesitate on this is not going to have like full resolution full color 4K cameras in in ear pods. Like that's not what we're talking about here. I don't think if it is I'll be right there. >> Not at this juncture. Not at this juncture. I can't see that. Right. >> Like I I I'm excited about the positioning. It's going to allow you to have the context. It's going to bring to a lot of things. Context is key here, guys. Um, and yeah, I think it's going to allow for the devices to be even more helpful >> in a way. So, >> we we'll have to see what happens, but I don't think I'm with you on this one. I think this one is actually going to be okay, especially with the positioning Apple has always put themselves in on privacy first. So, I'm feeling comfortable with this. Time will tell. We're also looking at a new Apple Watch Series 12. Mhm. >> Uh a few other things in the watch space and nothing about Apple rings. >> What's missing? Like Aura is doing amazing. Like all these like >> Where's my ring? >> Yeah, I don't know. Um let me explain where all of this information is really coming from. The MacOSS 26.7 release candidate that went out last week has code references to a lot of this stuff. And when code references are now being injected into the code for compatibility reasons, we can expect to actually see them launch. This includes um the AirPods, a phone and all that, but also a new smart home hub, which we've not seen in a while. >> And the first I'm actually excited about this, the first OLED MacBook and iPad Mini models. So OLED OLED screens in your MacBook. That could be pretty killer. Um, and then a Siri remote tied to next generation Apple TVs. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. >> When are we getting the glasses, if ever? >> Okay. So, I don't know. That's a great question. That was not listed in the contents of the OS. However, according to Road toVR, which is one of my favorite go-to, uh, like little news sites for off thebeaten path type technology information, uh, according to that, um, I read they found this information through Bloomberg. I need to give credit where it's due that there is some work being done for the future smart glasses and XR. They have a lot a long ways to go with XR. They made a lot of investment in here. They got to do something with it. and they're hoping that with what they've learned in vision tracking as it goes into eyewear that Apple fitness plus is going to be a part of that. So, >> so smart. If they do go the fitness route, I think that is a brilliant brilliant move in my perspective. >> Yeah. >> Um for so many reasons that conversations I've had in the past and all sorts of things. I think that's a brilliant move. Also, I think people are a lot more health consscious. Um people are living longer. Longevity is a big part of kind of where tech is going. So I think there's so many benefits if they actually do gear it towards um brilliant move if brilliant move if that is their killer use case um to begin with rather than social. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Film your life and share with everyone. Yeah. I don't know. >> I I have to give credit where it's due and I have been increasingly impressed by Apple as a company. >> I know. I know. over to the dark side, which is the good side, by the way. But anyway, >> no. Well, I I technically I am. My computer is always been my computer for a decade has been a Mac, right? Like I use Apple products. I just I struggle with the Apple iPhone operating system. >> Yeah, >> it's just not for me. I use a little bit more flexibility, but there have been aspects of the Apple iPhone that I'm like, h I would actually like that. Um, you know, uh, we are in a split household here where my wife is on an iPhone, I'm on an Android, and we make it work. Okay. It's >> always feel weird texting you cuz it's the green. [laughter] I'm like, "Oh my god, I can't text. It's not the same. >> It's not the same situation." So, but um, >> and we get along just fine. >> It works. It works, right? Um, it's funny that the only part Arthur decided to bark, by the way, if anyone heard him, I don't know if you guys did, is during the Apple conversation. I think he wants [clears throat] you to come over to the dark side. >> Well, I'm sorry, Arthur. We're We're going to have to work through >> We're going to have to work through it. >> Well, we're an Apple household here. Like, we're all literally uh my ex-husband is actually the only one that is not Apple. All his computers are, but his phone isn't. >> Same situation here. >> Same situation. Granted, we're not married, and that's not the reason we got divorced anyway. [laughter] It wasn't because of >> couldn't take the green bubbles anymore. >> Oh my gosh. No. But um when my son was starting, you know, he just started high school. Like I mentioned, I had to get him a computer. I got him a MacBook Pro. And someone was saying, "No, you need to get him a Dell." I was like, "No, uh go go with the MacBook. >> Get him his MacBook Pro." So he has a MacBook Pro and you know, we've got a P. >> Especially with the Neo right now, the the new Neo laptop that Apple's putting out. Like that's the clutch, you know, laptop to give a kid as they're going to school. Like >> he's got a MacBook Pro. >> I understand. I understand. But like some some households are going, "Okay, I'm on a tight budget here and the Dell is, you know what I mean? The Dell is like, but >> but you get what I'm saying, right? Like if you're if you're going back to school and you're trying to find the right >> I love the Neos. I love the Neos. So I wanted to get him a Neo, but he got really like an advanced class related to like programming and stuff. sell out. >> Yeah. And in which case you kind of >> he needs an actual machine, you know. >> Totally. >> So he went for I went for the pro for him. So >> Nope. I think that's the right call. >> That's the right call. One last story here cuz I want to get your hot take on this. Um this came from the BBC. >> Mhm. >> So robot arms like uh there's a bar in Las Vegas called the Tipsy Robot >> and they are robotic arm mixologists, >> robotic bars, bartenders. They're starting to add automatic service fees to the bill. Um, [laughter] >> I've had to tip a robot before. So, this was >> Do you tip Do you That's the question. Do you tip a robot? >> I've tipped a robot before. Did I like tipping a robot? No. >> It felt like I shouldn't have to tip a robot. >> There's There's a uh there's a place here in Portland that I really like. It's a store. They're kind of almost like a department store, but they've got a robot barista in in the store. So you can get like a coffee or whatever as you're walking around and shopping. >> And that clanker asked for a tip and I got real offended and and turned into a grumpy old man real quick. >> Real quick. Clanker, by the way. Clanker, when you watch on social, that's the word that this, you know, >> that's that's the derogatory word for >> robot. Clanker. Um, yeah, I don't enjoy tipping a robot. I do think about like, you know, there are the people that have to stock the, you know, the rum, [laughter] >> you know, but I'm like, am I not already paying a premium for this beverage? So that >> I think this is where transparency is key. So because some of the defense comes into funneling a lot of this money gets 100% funneled back to the human staff, >> covers, you know, maintenance and upkeep of the machines. And I get all of that, but I feel like that needs to be presented in some way as opposed to just presenting someone with a tap here tip. I know that that's super easy and it's built right into your point of sale service, you know, tablet and all of that, but would it kill you to put up a sign and laminate it and say tip 100% of the tips go to fill the in the blank? Because if I knew at this like department store that, oh, if I'm tipping this robot that made me my coffee drink that it's going to go to the people over in checkout, >> I'm way more inclined to say yes. But if you don't tell me where this is going, you can guarantee I'm hitting that no tip button. >> I didn't do it. I didn't do it happily, but I did it and then I was like, well, it's going to go to these people. I'm like, um, but yeah. Yeah, we'll have to see. We I'm sure we're going to continue to see more of this. And did it ask you did it ask you did it immediately give you a 20%. >> Or did it make >> I believe No, I will give I will because that's set at the point of sale. >> Mhm. >> Where you go? I'm guessing this particular place in Las Vegas or other places like it in Las Vegas probably is starting at the 20% cuz it's Vegas, baby. >> It's Vegas. It'll be like [laughter] 25. >> But I will give them the the benefit of the doubt. At this particular location here in Portland, I believe it started at 5105. Still, I mean, yeah, I think a we should we should ask our listeners like, would you have you tipped a robot? Would you tip the robot? If so, how much would you tip the robot? Cuz >> Yeah, I've done it before. Did I Yeah. It didn't feel good. It did not feel good. Like, you know, if I tip a human cuz they're doing a really good job, I feel great about it. Like, I've done it sometimes where, you know, >> you do a really good nice tip and then you feel good because you're like, "This person did such a great job. They, you know, they deserve this tip. But, >> but a robot, >> a robot, you know, it's a little tricky. I don't know. Especially if it's just an arm. Is this just me? You know, making it more like one one more like that [laughter] engagement with the robot. >> If it's only one fifth of a human body, I'm only tipping one of a tip. >> You know, like I mean, if it's like a humanoid and it's kind of like walking the stuff to me, I might be more inclined to be like, "Okay." But it's just an arm. I don't know. >> Yeah, >> I can see you at like a swanky bar in Las Vegas. A humanoid robot comes up to you and hands you your cocktail and you just flick them a a a washer instead of a coin. >> Yeah. >> Hey, handsome. Come here often. >> Oh gosh. All right. And on that note, we're going to call this one a day. Thanks for tuning in to Tech Magic, where we always invite you to come to the tech stay for the magic. I am Lee Keebler here with the incredible Kathy Hackle. If you have questions or you want to submit your own stories or you just want to say hi, we are always looking to hear from you. You can find us on social media. Kathy is super popular on LinkedIn. I am all over Instagram. We both have our substacks. You just have to look us up under Techmagic Lee Bler Kathy Hackgle. We'll be back next week. [music] >> [music]