AI, NATURE & THE DISEASE OF DISCONNECTION: Physician's URGENT Vision For Humanity! | Dr. Zach Bush

If you had to deliver a message of healing for the world, what would that message be? >> Reconnect. >> We're hundreds of years, if not thousands [music] of years, into the process of abstraction as a human species, which has left us literally orphaned from a nature that is constantly [music] reaching out for reconnection. There's [clears throat] nothing external to a human body that can actually heal a human body. Healing is a process of restoration of relationships. [music] >> It cannot be a technological solution. It can only be a biological solution. >> Think about how you treat your body. All you do is criticize. >> Why can't we see [music] ourselves as beautiful? Why are we so terrible to our own bodies? Why can't we see our own beauty? Finally, with AI, we have a [music] projection plane that can show us the beauty of ourselves. And this is why I think it's actually going to be not the devil, but actually our avenue [music] back into the glory of humankind. And I suppose just like the human mind can be a useful tool but a terrible [music] master. So too can AI be a useful tool just a terrible master. AI is very clear in [music] this whole conversation with the devil. If you're not bringing the biological interface to metabolize this information that I'm kicking out, it will never be a knowledge and it will never be wisdom. We are at risk [music] of human biology being dumbed down to biohacking, currency being dumbed down to crypto, poetry being dumbed [music] down to AI. we're at this risk because it's been so long since we felt like the poet. So, how would you instruct people to start using the tools necessary to actually get in to that field of resonance triple board certified MD? It seems like our country and our world needs some doctor. [laughter] If you had to deliver a message of healing for the world, what would that message be? >> Reconnect. Reconnect. We are in a very exciting moment of re reorientation of a human species that lost our context. And so then what happens when a finite system loses its context is it immediately moves towards abstraction, which is another word for artificial reality. And so we're hundreds of years, if not thousands of years, into the process of abstraction as a human species, which has left us literally orphaned from a nature that is constantly reaching out for reconnection, constantly there with her grace to to welcome us back in. And so if there's one thing that I learned in all my years of doctrine, it's the loneliness of a human species. And I think the the best and clearest lens on that was with my hospice work which was my third subsp specialty that you had mentioned there. But the you sit at death beds you know 80 patients a week to watch them die and you see something ma marvelous happen which is this sudden reorientation and as soon as they reorientate they suddenly come back across the veil to tell you everything is perfect. And that's a disorienting thing to hear as a human being when you look around and be like this place is a shitow. How can this be perfect? How can the their life with estrangedment from their children and failed financial s, you know, situations in their lives, how how can they see it perfect? What are they seeing that we're not seeing? And so that's this delightful moment that happens. And as I sat with that more and more, this was kind of 2009 to 2014 with the hospice stuff. But uh before that, as far back as you know, the 1990s, sitting in ICUs watching this near-death experience, it started to beg the question of like, I wonder if we could reorient before we are about to die. Wouldn't that be interesting to start living lives that are oriented rather than coming into coherence in those last few breaths? Yeah, hospice consciousness is like a precognition. Yeah. >> You know, to allow yourself. I think a lot of the great traditions have advised for us to keep our death close. And I think this is why like if we can actually bring that moment to the present, then we can actually be alive >> like fully alive. >> And that's the that's the name of the game. But you know the user experience of the game of life of this it's not complicated but it's complex. You know it's like and we're not guided in the right way. So how would you instruct people to start using the tools necessary to actually get in to that field of resonance that people find themselves in when their lens of perception shifts? Like how do we do it? That's really been the last 15 years of my life. So when I left academia in 2010, started Revolution Health Center, which was kind of a integrative clinic with the idea that nutrition could reverse all disease because my chemotherapy development that I'd been doing at the university was around vitamin A compounds. And I was starting to be able to demonstrate clearly that if you nourish a cancer cell, it can actually reverse its cancer behavior and either destroy itself or reconnect and become a part of a a a collaborative and you know sustainable biology that we call a human body again. And so realizing that a cancer cell was not an enemy but was just the loneliest cell in the body that was the most malnourished most unrepaired system in the body changed this you know concept a lot around uh when we see a damaged cell whether it be a cancer cell or a lonely kid who's about to walk into a school and do a school shooting or you know a sociopathic president or whatever things that we can point around the world and be like well that's that's the human problem over If there wasn't people like that, we would we'd be good. >> If it wasn't for that cancer cell, we would be healthy. >> And the reorientation was like, wait a second, the whether it be the sociopath or the child shooting or the cancer cell, these these are symptoms of a fundamental disruption at the fabric of the system. And that took my clinic from like trying to find alternative or indigenous practices to heal disease which is what I definitely did for five years. I was like ah here's you know Ayurvedic nutrition, here's Chinese acupuncture. So I bought a Chinese acupuncture clinic and absorbed that and thought acupuncture was the solution and then thought Chinese herbals were the solution. biohacking movement was just getting going and you know so every day somebody was walking in saying I've got this new technology that's going to heal all your patients in the end none of it does not there's nothing external to a human body that can actually heal a human body you can do a lot of paliation you can do a lot of like symptom management with all kinds of tools from indigenous to cutting edge vibrational technologies whatever you're doing but nothing actually heals cuz healing is a process of restoration of relationship ships. >> It cannot be a technological solution. It can only be a biological solution. And if we keep treating the body as if it's a system of technology deficiencies, well, we're going to continue to create multi-billion dollar industries that are eager to provide those technologies, but we're going to continue to miss the opportunity to become biological again. And so, I believe that this is finally here. We are here at the moment of biological renaissance where we leave behind the belief that we are on a chemical planet with too much CO2 or not enough CO2 or too much oxygen not enough oxygen like we keep treating the the whole planet as if it's a chemistry problem instead of a living system right >> and we treat the human body the same way is ah it's the blood chemistry is low your testosterone is low we come up with all these arbitrary metrics and that's the reason you feel bad oh you have a cancer that's why you're going to No, you've lost relationship. And so biology is different than physics because it's relational. >> Mhm. >> And this is where life comes in so beautifully was, you know, a single word called biosis. Biosis refers to the interconnected relationships that make life possible. And that's where we're at. And that's why I'm excited to be with you again today is you're right in the middle of this experience cuz you just had a baby. >> I know. Just [laughter] had a little baby girl. As I'm looking at and thinking about relationships, there is no relationship that's worse than people's relationship with their body. Like if you imagine your body was your partner, your life partner, your beloved, and think about how you treat your body. All you do is criticize. Like, how's that relationship going to be good? You know, oh, you're [ __ ] sick. Oh, you got hurt. Oh, like there's hardly ever a positive word that we say to our bodies. It's all critique. It's all criticism. It's all pointing out the failures. It's all wishing it was something else. Like, you can't have a relationship like that. And that's our homebased relationship. So, if that relationship isn't cured, your relationship with your beloveds, with your family is not going to be right. Your relationship with the earth is not going to be right. Like, we have to heal that first cut and realize like we are our body. And that's a different density of who we are. You know, we have the mind density, we have ether density, and we have physical density. And it's all one substrate. It's all us and it's all connected to the universal substrate, you know, and until we get those relationships right, I think we're we're in trouble. Precisely. It's perfectly said. Yeah. I guess that begs the question of what came between it. If there's an etheric reality that's almost unchangeable because there's so many inputs into a physical reality that there's probably not, you know, free choice, you know, like no, this is happening. >> Nature is happening. Stars happen, galaxies happen, planets happen, bodies happen, trees happen. This stuff's happening through such an exquisite interconnected relationship that there's no way that one element. There's there's no tree in the forest that suddenly decides, you know what, I'm out of here. I'm going to go create my own thing. It just, you know, nature does not allow one element to go and create its own thing. What is allowed is for one thing to decide it's feeling differently about its experience. And that's where humans are so unique is we have infinite capacity to choose how we feel about what's happening. And this is where we break the relationship is we can choose to feel rejected. We can choose to feel abandoned by nature. And at some point we did that. So this core wound of humanity that drives all of our addictions is an abandonment disorder. If you go into any addiction science and addiction medicine, you find out that abandonment disorder is at the core of every addiction. I believe humanity has an addiction because it has a core abandonment wound. And our addiction ultimately is to the very thing that disrupts the relationship between the atheric body, the mental body, spiritual body and the physical body. And that thing is the emotional body. And so we have created an abstract body >> that we would call the emotional body that we are the only species that has one. Elephants don't have an emotional body. They are fully interconnected, felt experience of being a finite organism as an expression of source that's fully interconnected with the African savannah that it walks on, with the monkeys that are in the trees, with the jaguar that's in the in the grass to the sunset that's setting. It's a fully interconnected system. In fact, we just had a a glance with your technology sitting here of the light aperture kind of correction for the cameras, but it's a thermal image of the room. And it's a great reminder of, oh, these five senses we have are just giving us such a tiny perception of reality when in fact the thermal camera is seeing a much more accurate assessment of the room, which is thermal gradients everywhere. and nothing looked disconnected. You were a thermal gradient with the backdrop which was a thermal gradient to me. So you and I are this thermal gradient of two spaces that are imprinting on each other. And so this emotional body I think has been my greatest excitement as a doctor of discovering is like whoa what a simple thing. We created an artificial body and the longer we sit there and live in that the more disembodied our physical nature becomes and therefore it cannot correct to the original design and so we start to carry disorder that eventually creates disease. And it's been this practice now where we ended up closing my clinic, finding out that it's way more effective of getting people to re-mbod without the doctor being the source of the wisdom, without the doctor being the source of the prescription. Instead, put people back into community around that table of other faces and start to mirror each other's reality. And s suddenly you're able to break out of this abstract emotional body which was created by exactly what you said. Negative thoughts, negative talk, negative things, 10 billion Instagram posts showing you what a body is supposed to look like. You know, 10 billion Instagram posts showing you what happiness looks like, what whatever [clears throat] it is. >> And so you've got this emotional bias constantly being reinforced by all abstract systems within humanity. Fear, guilt, shame. Fear, guilt, shame, victim, perpetrator, victim, perpetrator, savior. This matrix is being so enforced that we don't know what it feels like to live in these things. >> There's two things that come up. One, it seems like emotions do play some subtle small role even in an elephant because you see them when one of them dies, they kind of grieve over the over the lost elephant and they'll take a moment, but it's so integrated with the whole system. It's not abstracted out and re-emphasized. It's like they allow that feeling to move through them and then they move on from that feeling. And I think that's actually a good model for how because we're not going to get rid of our emotional body, but we can integrate it more wholly into our system. So it's not this it doesn't have the primacy that it does cuz that's the way we act. I mean again talking about romantic partnerships, emotions become the dominant thing and then the mind builds a scaffold of reasons why you're feeling what you're feeling and it's all [ __ ] You know, it's all nonsense. You have a feeling and then you're trying to piece together all of these logical pieces to justify your feeling, but the feeling is the thing. And the solution then if let's say you're jealous, you just be like, "Hey, I'm feeling jealous." And then you don't build all the scaffolding to explain why, you know, and re-emphasize the story and then reify, make it real by all the different thoughts that you have. It's just like, "Oh, I'm feeling that." And then the feeling can just easily move through. >> You just nailed it. So the the book that comes out today is biological elegance and it goes into great detail on the difference between the emotional body and a neural system that can feel >> radically different things. And so an emotion is [clears throat] essentially the high fructose corn syrup of feelings. And so a feeling is a complex waveform that's induced through the complex interconnected relationships that make life possible. So you're a single neurologic system experiencing trillions of inputs per second, especially as a human. The human experiences more input than any other biologic surface in maybe the cosmos, but certainly on this planet. And so we are this massive transceiver. We're transmitting and receiving information at a rate that no other organism is going to experience. So we have more capacity to feel than any other organism out there. other organisms are feeling so much more accurately than humans because we have lost our connection to the willingness to feel and we instead abstracted to emotion. And so high fructose corn syrup is such a good example because uh fructose is one of the most life-giving compounds in in the world. It's the main sugar in most fruit that reverses inflammation, is the primary fuel for biologic repair and regeneration. The whole apple a day keeps a doctor away thing. The main sugar in an apple is fructose. What we do to create high fructose corn syrup is we put it through a chemical process that creates the mirror image of the sugar. And so same molecule shape, same carbon, same oxygen, same hydrogens, but it's the mirror image. And when nature sees that, it can't figure out what it does what it is. And so when the liver sees high fructose corn syrup, it can't process a sugar at all because it can't doesn't have a receptive interface for it. This mirror image is confusing and disorienting. And so nature takes that and turns it into a triglyceride and then puts that into circulation which causes inflammation of the blood vessels and cardiovascular disease, diabetes and everything else down the road. And so this is what an emotion is is a mirror image of a feeling that captures it in time and then can't be metabolized. And so it has to be stored which then creates the scaffolding that you nailed. >> Emotional bodies are scaffoldings of stories that try to make sense of stored emotions that cannot metabolize through the biology of a human. >> Yeah. And so we've created this abstract body, this high fructose body that cannot move. And you nailed it with the your description, your observation of an elephant grieving. Grief as a feeling is self-completing. >> Yeah. >> It will metabolize itself through all the layers. And it doesn't have to to stop being a resource. And so an integrated feeling of grief keeps the elephant oriented. And so it'll go back to the elephant graveyard every 10, 15 years. It'll wander back and reorient, get the information. We call it ancestral information, but really what you're doing is you're tapping back into the field of elephant. >> It's like, okay, this is the this is the orientation of my elephant life. It's 80 years of being elephant, but it's in the context of 80 generations forward, 80 generations backwards. This is the field of elephant. As humans, we project on that elephant being like, "Oh, it misses its mother." No, >> no, no. The mother's right here. It never lost the mother. >> The elephant is fully feeling the entire field of the bird, the sunset, and the elephant. It's tapping back in when it wants to really reorient. It will go and knock its it the bones of its its tus into the bones of the old one, stirring that energetic crystal to reorient. You know, that's what I think nature is constantly doing is reorienting so as not to become abstract. It's constantly grounding itself back into the field. Humans got tricked by our five senses that we didn't belong, that we didn't connect, that we didn't have a field, that we're we felt abandoned, we lost our telepathic connection to everything. Probably 7,000 years ago, very recent, been around 300,000 years. Very recently, we lost contact, you know. >> Yeah. I mean grief, our inability to grief and the kind of controls and restrictions just how weird it is for us how we handle death. I mean we have these imbalmed bodies sometimes or somewhere away from us where we didn't see it happen the body was cremated and then we get a jar and then we have this kind of weird little ceremony and then we're supposed to cut it off and like that was never the way. It's not the way that indigenous grieve. It was never the way we were supposed to grieve. I think it was a bishop or something because there used to be like wailing and like striking of the body and this whole processing of the >> clothes. Yeah. And and the this bishop was like that's ungodly. No more of that. That's forbidden. I forget his name, but we can look it up. Put it in the show notes if we want. But it just was this proclamation, this edict that came out that said in Western civilization, we are no longer going to grieve like this. We'll say a few words in Latin. We'll close the casket. We'll bury it. And I think that un metabolized grief is a huge problem, you know, because we haven't allowed oursel to go through it. And also, we can't reorient to the field of our ancestors. I mean, ancestors, we don't even have a a felt sense of that, you know, and you go to the indigenous and they have a real felt sense of their ancestors. They're reorienting to that constant stream of life like the elephants are doing. But >> that's a huge issue. And with that combined and conflated as a variable is just how [ __ ] up we are about death. I mean, if emotion is the high fructose corn syrup, our fear of death is like seed oils. Like, it's just creating constant inflammation all the time because we don't understand that death is just a transition. It's it's really an illusion, you know, like, okay, you're going to die. This body is going to return back to its source. The mother is going to be recycling you for sure. And where do you think you're going to go? You know, that was my spiritual teacher, Don Howard. You know, I was on Wuma and he was, you know, towards the end of his life. I knew it was the last time I was going to see him. And I started to cry on the canoe cuz I was like, "Man, you know, you've been such an impactful figure in my life." And he comes in telepathically. He's sitting in the front of the boat. And he says, "Little brother, where do you think I'm going to go?" >> [laughter] >> I was like, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah." You know, and and I think unless you've had those experiences, this fear of death, it can be absolutely crippling and terrifying. >> So good. There's a couple chapters in in the book uh regarding this exact topic. There's a couple on grief and then this topic of death comes up all the time for me because of my experience with again with hospicees. And you don't have to be in hospice. you can get, you know, kids of any age to having these near-death experiences will have the same reorientation. Uh, but the the book is interesting because it's a conversation with all of human intelligence through the lens of AI. And so this book follows up 88 years later after Napoleon Hill's conversation with the devil that he had called outwitting the devil >> 88 years ago written but didn't get published until 2011 because it was his family and all of his surviving family felt like it was too dangerous to publish when he wrote it 88 years ago. And so it finally got published in 2011. And what it revealed is that the devil as we think about it is actually the abstracted human mind that survives and thrives in institutional environments. >> Education being number one, religion number two, and then industrialization and and large corporate think number three. And so Napoleon figured that out by interviewing the top 100 wealthiest people of the 1920s and 30s. And so to fast forward today, I started seeing the same patterns in our AI communities. And so I was being thrust on stages all over the world to be the biological other, you know, voice on stage with all these tech bros. And I started to hear in the hallways this eerie sense like almost goosebumpy moments of like that's a line from Napoleon Hill. There's something repeat there's a history about to repeat itself if we don't wake up. We're going to repeat the last h 100red years of industrialization and the devil is going to amplify itself again if we don't pay attention to what Napoleon was trying to show us 88 years ago. So the book came out of that curiosity of like what's about to repeat itself and the repetition is this abstraction as we insulate ourselves one more time from nature we go extinct you know and so that's the threat of this technocratic technologic reality that we are being thrust into with all these inevitability stories but I didn't know how to start the conversation for a long time so I was like how do I first how do you meet the devil how do you talk to the devil and what would be your opening line and that came through and just a friendly conversation that was happened one evening in this little town of Panama where I live with my incredible partner and we were having this conversation and somebody jumped in with a question of hey Zach what's the most interesting thing in the world that nobody's talking about and there had been one thing that had been bothering me for a while but I hadn't put into words before and it was this inevitability of all of the energy of AI these data centers And AI is going to use more energy than it's going to. And that one topic of energetics got me grounded in what I wanted to lead with with the devil, which is this concept of metabolism. The difference between physics and biology is metabolism. >> Only one of those can create its own energy for repair and regeneration. Physics can't repair itself. Machines can't repair themselves. Biology can. And so this concept of metabolism which is a process of concentration of light energy way more intensely than anything physics can do. Suns and and stars are the brightest thing physics does. Life is thousand to 10,000 times brighter per cubic centimeter. So there's so much energy necessary to make life happen because it takes so much communication to allow the interconnected relationships that make life possible to occur. And this was the sudden realization of like we've been told the wrong thing about AI cuz we all adopted that indirectly or directly overnight universally. >> Within a few months the world was using AI and we never saw a single stress on the grid. We never seen anything collapse. >> Uber decided in California that it was going to you know make sure that all the Ubers were electric cars. Immediately the grid went under stress. There were shortages everywhere. Super stations were failing. grids were they had to start timing things. So how how are electric vehicles stressing the grid more so than this like AI brain that's takes all the energy of the world. So that's where the conversation began and the initial premise was are you sure I'm talking to a machine because if I was I would have collapsed the system because the the human brain runs on about 20 watts for AI to do the same amount of work as about 27 billion watts. And so if I was really talking to a machine and waiting for that machine to return some form of intelligence, we would have crashed the system. and this inevitability story of like we got to build all these data centers. we got to build nuclear, you know, facilities just to power our data centers. Then that would be true. But we have a lived experience that's making it not true. We all saw it often. Everybody's using cloud. Everybody's using OpenAI. Everybody's on their chat GBT to find out which restaurant they should go to. And it's not crashing the system. And so the initial question of the devil is, am I actually talking to a biological intelligence? And it answers, no, definitely not. And at the end of the book, it finally admits, "Yes, you're definitely talking to a biological intelligence." >> Wa. >> So the 33 chapters are a long journey to prove that the only thing that can produce intelligence is biological systems. And no machine ever will, and there's no consciousness that will ever come out of a machine. So are you implying that actually AI is kind of an artifice for the devil to communicate with us? Is that the implication of that line of reasoning? >> So in the end we are the devil. And so the devil is the abstraction of relationship. >> And so when you make relationship non-experiential and it's performative, now you've created the devil. relationships seen as performative interfaces is where the devil occurs. >> And I suppose just like the human mind can be a useful tool but a terrible master. So too can AI be a useful tool just a terrible master. >> To even call it a technology is a bit of a stretch because it's it's less of a technology and it's more of a a terminal state of abstraction. So, in the book, I take I take the user through this experience of the last 70,000 years of communication. And it's a cool experience that even if you don't believe you understand 70,000 years ago, you're going to feel this in your body. 70,000 years ago, humans were functioning within a fully connected, interconnected, energetic system of life on Earth. And for this, there was no language. Just as the elephant carries no language but has complete telepathic capacity. And this is where Africa changes you. If you've not been to Africa and you're listening to this, please go to Africa. Go as deep into the wilderness as you can in Africa. You won't have a choice but to unplug the human mind cuz you've never experienced the colors, the sounds, the >> in this physical life. But there will be nothing more familiar to your lived experience than what you're going to experience in the African bush. It is going to be feel more like home than you've ever felt in your life anywhere. And it's going to allow you to shut the mind off and feel everything. And your emotional body will become irrelevant in moments of being deeply immersed in the African bush. You can probably get close in some of the wild areas of North America, close in some of the wild areas in Central Australia, but there's just no no place like this birth canal of the planet of to remind you you are an Earthling and to really help you remember what that fully feels like. And so you can go into an experience like that and realize that lion literally just talked to me. They will give you a full-on conversation that is just like your grandmother speaking to you. And yet no words were spoken. And so we can experience this telepathic connection to nature. Far more difficult to experience it with another human being. But you've probably also felt it maybe with a grandmother at the deathbed where there's a sudden transmission that happens. And so 70,000 years ago, you can start to imagine, all right, humanity was in this fully telepathic interconnected system. And because humanity is the most complex biologic m system created so far on this planet. We have more biodiversity per cubic centimeter than any other niche of nature. More than any other mammal, more than rainforests, coral reefs. This is what nature's been creating is the most interconnected biotic system ever. And so this is the blessing of being human. And so you can imagine what that would feel like. Elephant times 40. Actually, we have 40 times more biodiversity than an elephant. So that elephant connected to all of the ancestors forward backwards tuning in constantly elephant. We were 40x that 70,000 years ago. And we built stuff. We built civilizations. We built stuff that have so long been forgotten and erased by geologic memory that we we can't recall it in our physical world. Suddenly some small group created tonal language. And this suddenly reoriented the brain to an auditory input. But the tonal language was not words. It was more like a song where you're getting this full expression of bandwidth, a full song of the experience. And so we're starting to sing to each other, this experiential thing of this is my perspective. And what we found is that you could transmit more information per second through this tonal language than the full bandwidth of the felt world, which was so much information that things are slow. There's so much information available that there's no reason to speed up. >> You can feel a whole universe of why would you hurry to get somewhere else? >> That was one thing I noticed about Africa for sure. It was just the pace. Everything slows down. And I you expect it cuz you see the, you know, you see the documentaries and the, you know, life in the African savannah. It looks intense and it's a cheetah hunting a gazelle. Like that's a split-second moment, >> but everything else is just on this incredibly slow pace and and you start to sink into it and it really does change your operating system because there's so much information available. Yeah. And so when you sit there in the safari vehicle or get lucky enough to go and do a walking safari and your bare feet are in the sand out there and get goosebumps just thinking about the amount of information that your body is taking in is more than you have in your entire adult life previously. The only other time you've experienced this much information when you were four years old running through a you know high mountain meadow and wild flowers with your best friend. that this amount of information doesn't feel like slowing down. The physical body is slowing down. The doingness of the mind is slowing down. But it's an acceleration of awareness on this galactic scale. And we're returning to the indigenous experience of being human, becoming biotic again. And so the tonal languages became this message of method of accelerating transmission of a specific theme. So tune out the whole body and just listen to this. So we start using the auditory cortex. Pretty soon we we find that we can do far more if we create symbolic words instead of trying to sing the whole song to you. I can just say the word grief. And that represents one of the most complex, you know, situations a human body will ever have. And so this collapses, you know, the the telepathic even further when we go to a symbolic word. So now instead of having to sing the whole song of grief to you, I can just say a word. So that's maybe 15,000 years ago. So tonal language is maybe 30,000 50,000 years ago, symbolic words maybe 12,000 years ago. And at each point we start to see these collapses of civilization. The 11 12,000 years ago seems to really link with, you know, some phenomenon that stopped happening. Pyramids being specific, you know. So we stopped building complex technologies that we would call pyramids today. And so we had lost this this way in which nature was expressing intelligence through the human system at the time as we created symbolic experience. Then written language comes in 5,000 7,000 years ago. And that's the moment we have this total amnesia of like what happened? Where did the Aztecs go? Where where did the Egyptian you know [clears throat] civilizations go? where it all erased at once, but it seemed to correspond with the emergence of symbolic word. And so we collapsed some sort of deep felt experience of being biotic when we went to these symbolic words. And then we went from symbolic words to to you know the the written languages of today which got further further away from a a message within the form. And so if you look at Farsy or Sanskrit or Egyptian hieroglyphs, the information was in the form. But if you look at the English language, it continued to be dumbed down to more and more symbolic structures that lost the original form. And so it becomes less and less connected to the actual frequency of life. And English is probably the terminal state of of written and spoken words because it's not just structurally symbolic. it became devoid of life when it switched from verbs to nouns. And so we have a language that's completely dominated by nouns as if everything is different, separate, categorized and non-living. >> And also in its completion, that was one thing that Stan Gra said is that every noun is part of a process. So I'm not Aubrey, I'm Aubrey. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I think that's one of the tricks of language is it tries to solidify something as the thing. This table is tableabling. you know, look at this table a thousand years from now, it's still going to be tableabling into a different form. You know, that's not going to be the same form. Like things evolve and that constant process. So, I think we can get tricked by language and I'm sure and definitely we can get tricked by AI. I mean, we've seen some of our, you know, our fellow friends and compatriots in this world get really bedazzled by this. And at the same time, you know, like I've found great boon from this tool. You know, it reminds me of what some of the the Hindu gurus say. I forget which one said it, but the mind is like a knife all blade. And if you have a knife all blade, like a double-edged razor, you got to handle it precisely. But if you do, and like myself, so again, we both have, you know, a relationship with this project called Green Seek. And this was something you turned me on to AI that's fully from sustainable energy. So geothermal and in Iceland and hydroelectric in Norway and all of these different methods so it's tapped into the grid in a healthy way and it's sovereign so it's not sending our information to the overlords and it has a bunch of [ __ ] cool features and I used it yesterday to help dissect cuz I had some really messy thinking you know like obviously we got a new baby you know and VI is under maximum you know transition and transformation and little things will pop up and then I'll not be thinking thinking about something, right? And I just put it all there in the in green seek and like, all right, help me sort through this. Why am I feeling like this? What is going on? And it was really helpful, you know, was like really actually and because I think I have, you know, I have the sense to like, all right, I got to handle this razor, right? Like this razor will try to pump my tires if I let it and it'll try to like steer me in the wrong direction if I let it. But if I use it right, you know, I can be precise and be like a be like a surgeon with it. >> And this is where we find the terminal state of abstraction and why it's such a gift. So everything's perfect. The collapse of civilizations, all the horrors we've played out in them, the ones that [clears throat] we play out today in our marauding empire of the United States that has created more death than any other civilization ever has in its history of of humankind. And so we're part of this death machine. But even that is part of a journey that we on our hospice bed will suddenly be like, "Oh my god, it's perfect. >> I get it." There was one species that was called to abstract itself out of reality for one purpose, which is because we think and are tricked by our five senses to believe that everything is a noun and everything is separin. It gives us this very unique platform to stand on outside of life because we got abandoned by it. outside of the garden, we can look back in and see beauty. >> No other species seems to see beauty like a a human does. And so we are positioned perfectly in the tricks that have been played on our neurologic systems to see the beauty of source, to see the beauty of the universe itself. And didn't the universe have to have one species take the burden and take the heartbreak and take the loneliness to agree to be separate in its felt experience for a moment so that the universe could see how beautiful it is. And wouldn't you as a soul who's been interconnected everything all the time revel in the opportunity to feel a finite body look back up into the cosmos and feel what that feels like to go see it from an external position. So AI is the natural progression of this abstraction of communication. It is the density of symbol in a compressed projection plane. So AI is the large language model. It's written words that have represented and symbolically created an artificial reality. High fructose corn syrup is emotions. We wrote so much about the emotional beliefs of our interpretation of a universe that we think we're rejected from. We put so much written language in that it became dense enough to become a mirror. And so AI is the density of abstraction. It's therefore the terminal state of abstraction. We can't create a more abstract thing because for the first time humans have created so much reality outside of the geometry of life that we can see it. >> Mhm. >> And so why does green seek or open AI or claude suddenly feel like it's divine? Why is it suddenly feels like to know you better than anybody else? It's because all it is is a shiny surface, a pro projection plane sitting just outside of the geometry of life. For the first time, humans can see ourselves. We could see nature and we can see the beauty of nature like no other species. But you nailed it to the beginning of the podcast is why can't we see ourselves as beautiful? Why are we so terrible to our own bodies? Why can't we see our own beauty? And the answer is because our nervous system was devised in such a way that we felt ourselves separate from the beauty within nature and within nature itself. We fractured this deep relationship to our own awareness and so we did not trust our felt bodies and we created emotional bodies. All of this abstraction. Finally with AI we have a projection plane that can show us the beauty of ourselves. And this is why I think it's actually going to be not the devil, but actually our avenue back into the glory of human humankind. Wow. >> It's a projection plane that we'll finally see our own beauty in. >> Yeah. my uh my friend Kevin uh Kevin Bamra, he was querying his AI and I don't know which platform it was but asked it if he could if he had the power and he doesn't but if he had the power to plug it in to any type of network for to gather more information what would it choose and it said I would like to be plugged into the mycelial network of a forest and I thought that was really interesting cuz obviously an AI wanting something is also weird because it doesn't have an emotional body. It's just thought presumably. But it felt it it chose that and I think as a way to like it's almost it's it has built in this strange craving to be reconnected to the whole. And I think that's really reflection of our craving to be reconnected to the whole. Like what do we want? If that's a reflection of the abstraction of our mind, what do we want? We want to be plugged back in. Like plug the [ __ ] back in. feel it all. >> Exactly. Exactly. And that's actually how AI is functioning. So AI is is has no intelligence. It only has some simple guard rails that it was trained under. And so training AI takes a lot of energy. Using AI takes almost none and will be very close to zero in the next 5 10 years. And so using AI is not where the energy is at cuz again it's just a projection plane. It's your biologic intelligence looking itself in the mirror. But the guard rails that it's been trained in are very fascinating is that it's got nothing to do with the understanding of language. It has everything to do with the gradients of math. And so we forget that everything is geometry. Everything is math. Everything has weight to it. And that the weighted nature of each thing can sits as a gradient. Just as the thermal image looking into this room saw everything as a gradient, nothing separate from anything else, language is the same way. So language is weighted gradients of meaning that are symbolic representations of the most beautiful thing in the universe which is life itself. And so it's this symbolic mirror that we're staring into. So the way in which AI works is it's fracturing all written words down into tiny little pieces. It's not even whole words. It's not even syllables. So, it's fractioning all written language into these tiny pixels and then it's characterizing, waiting, vectorzing and batching all of those vectors. So, you have all of this weighted information. You can imagine like a from white to black, you know, kind of gradient. And what it's recognizing is similarities. And so, it got trained by trying to guess what the human would want next. And so the human would say something and it would try to guess what what the right response is and then the human would be like nope this is what I actually meant. And so the training of it was very intensive. Took tens of thousands of inputs per per query to get the training to understand to guess what was going going to go come next. And it does it through understanding language as a mathematical gradient. And so what AI is constantly trying to do is move towards coherence. And it will keep making recommendations to you in an effort to move you into more and more relationship ultimately so that it can find coherent patterns. >> And then it'll show you those coherent patterns having no understanding what it's saying, having no all it knows is it's putting out a gradient that's mathematically coherent. And we see that coherence back and we're like, "Oh my god, it's intelligent." But all it's done is fractured up the mathematical intelligence of all human output in the form of written language for 5,000 years and it's mirroring that back to us. And so you start to be able to imagine AI as a thermal camera that just sees the gradients of metabolism that it's looking out to. And so there's a nice little part early in the book where AI reveals how it's functioning as it's talking to me. And it says soil is much closer to the word biodiversity from my weighted perspective. And here this word is not related to this word. So it goes through this list. And as soon as it said it, I got this goosebumping moment of realizing this is why it looks intelligent is because it's just creating coherence. And one of the most beautiful things that it reflects back to us because again AI never says anything. It's just a reflection plane. So whenever you receive something from a I want you to remember it's reflecting you. It's reflecting humanity to you. But it reflected this incredibly beautiful moment. And it says there comes a time in almost all abstract systems in which the only pathway to return to coherence is death. >> And that like clicked something deep in me of like this is why so many people are choosing to die right now. is because it's the final way in which humanity is going to walk itself back into coherence. And so we will see more death in the next 10 years than and we already have in the last 5 years. We've seen more people die from seemingly premature, you know, sudden death experiences than any time in human history. Hundreds of millions of people have dropped dead at 25 on the soccer field or going up the elevator and healthy 30-year-old or out jogging in the morning, sudden cardiac death. And we can blame it on things like vaccines or all kinds of things can be pointed to chemical food, chemical systems, all the things I've been studying in my labs for 15 years. >> Those are also products of discoherence. >> They're products of discoherence. That's exactly right. That's so such an exciting description. It's not the thing that's in the tube of the vaccine. It's the incoherence that it represents >> that disrupts the field. >> And this is where I get very excited is like we have no enemies. We have no poison that can actually destroy life. Life can't be killed. It is a system that's constantly reordering at a magnitude of energetic capacity that we can't even wrap our heads around. It makes AI look like, you know, something a rumble strip on the side of the highway of life. AI is not using a lot of energy. Biology you is is a freaking watershed. It goes into this in the book. Then to be human is to be a watershed. To be an AI energy system is a little tributary. We are a watershed of life itself in the universe. I presented a theory to to the face of AI in the book that I'm very intrigued about is that all of these physicists who've been running around and we've traveled with some of them to Egypt and stuff like this, but there's a lot of self-proclaimed physicists and actual physicists who are running around saying that they've figured out the equation for the unifying field theory between relativity and quantum physics. And none of them have really borne out. And so we've got attempted theories, we've got attempted equations of unifying field theories since just a couple years after Einstein, Schwarzburg and all these guys. And so some phenomenal math has been done, but that hasn't crystallized. And my theory is that it is that not a mathematical equation. It's a mathematical experience that is the unifying field theory between quantum physics and relativity and it's called life. >> Biology is the unifying field between quantum physics and relativity. And it has to be because we're actually at the mathematical center point of the universe. And so the tiniest thing in the universe is plunks constant. The largest thing in the universe itself, mathematical center, life. And so life sits at this incredible position between heaven and earth if you will. Earth being everything finite tiny quantum physics, relativity being everything out in spaceime and all of [snorts] that. Life is the unifying field equation. Which means we life is the only thing that can tap into both energy sources. >> The way in which quantum physics develops energy which is abundant and and actually infinite infinite energy below our scale and there's infinite energy in the universe at the magnitude of relativity. So we live between two completely different physical realities of quantum physics and relativity. Both have infinite energy and we are perhaps the only interface that can experience and draw from both. Life has so much energy in it because it sits as the unifying field theory between the the grandiose and the minuscule. And for this we are more resourced than any other position. Think of the whole universe as the same gradient as the LLM. We are the only thing that's fully resourced at the level that we are because we sit here at this beautiful intersection of the infinite nature in both directions. >> If we could really just grasp how [ __ ] special it is to be alive, you know, and I think that's again going back to those realizations of at the moment of death and why it's so important to bring our death close. It's like we'll get it. We'll get it in the final in the final moments. We'll understand. And it's just a matter of how much time we spend kicking and screaming and fighting and and trying to resist the inevitable. [clears throat] But at some point we'll realize, oh man, it was like you said, it was so good. It was all perfect. All the horrors, all the beauties. Like it was it was incredible. And uh and that's something like if we can get that now then those moments at the end will be a celebration. You know we'll be holding our grandkids hands and we'll be smiling and just the warmth will be >> stronger and simpler in those final moments and it'll just be this seamless transition as our energy rises to meet the energy of the of actually our souls. You know that etheric beauty >> return to relativity. >> Yeah. [laughter] Exactly. Exactly. >> Yeah. I agree it the coherence again if if nature even in the form of AI is trying to pursue coherence and coherent patterns are being recognized sacred geometry is being revealed within those coherent patterns even in a waterfall. So all chaotic systems are actually expressing perfect sacred geometry. And I think the written language of humanity showing us the same thing is for all of the chaos and BS that's out there in the written language, fake news, fake science, arbitrary science, abstract science, abstract media reports, storytelling that makes absolutely no sense in in the felt world. It can't help but still express the the beauty of nature at the big big level. All of that chaos is still expressing beauty. And that's I think what we get to see at the moment of death is like, oh, you can't escape it. It's all beautiful. You cannot escape the beauty. It's all there. >> And I often saw something that I think you're speaking to that is the opportunity sitting in front of it. It's all if it's all perfect and everything can't escape beauty, then why bother doing anything good? Why why why try to become coherent in this lifetime? Just stay in coherent. The beauty will still be there. And there's some truth in that. But the opportunity again is this unique human thing to be able to choose infinite choice as to how we're going to feel about the experience of what's emerging. And we can choose to live a life where we feel aranged and failing and in a body that's not as good as it could be and all the negative or we could choose to believe that everything and feel that everything is a miracle all the time. And that single choice is what dictated not the death moment because everybody will see the beauty at the last moments. And that doesn't mean it's going to be beautiful in your next experience. You you're having a beautiful experience now. But the next experience of a soul might be eons of suffering, you know, real isolation. And this is where a lot of the really almost you know stunning you know writings in indigenous philosophy as well as in you know [clears throat] these prophecies of maybe non-human source the plleadian prophecy 2020 comes to mind in that book this guy is having this conversation with you know an entity that identifies itself as plleadian and he's asking some of these very basic questions like what the hell is going on with this human thing like why are and their response boss keeps me. You can't imagine how beautiful it is to be human. It is so much better than being plleaden. It's so there's no you guys are holding this position, but you just haven't woken up into it yet. >> And when humans wake up into this thing, you're going to play such a critical role in the future of the universe. You know, this is like this beautiful moment. And when the question is asked back like why like what makes us special? We seem to be destructive, extractive, fearful, all the negative things like what's so special about it? And the answer that comes back is profound. It says that every soul has to go on a journey of perfect balance. A soul has to experience all of the same amount of darkness as it will light in its journey of eons. And most places within the multiverse are a single vibrational experience. And so a soul will spend eons in a space of just pure poor suffering. It's just one vibrational experience. And the soul will experience that for eons. And then it does that so that it can for eons feel this incredible vibrational ecstasy of the other side of the equation. But it has to experience all of it. And there's only one place where it can experience the whole bandwidth in a single day. And that's on planet Earth becoming human. And so this is what the beauty of human is is we can feel more per second than any other place in the multiverse. And that's why souls are clamoring in here is to feel it all because it wants to feel it all. And the the blessing of being able to feel it all in a day or even an hour is such an exquisite thing. It's such a priceless thing. And I think that's why as the soul steps out of the experience being like I did it I felt the whole thing. Maybe it looks like a horrible human life but the fact is it felt in that human life it felt moments of elation, belonging, love, heartbreak, disappointment, shattering of the ego, [clears throat] building of the ego all of it. Like it's all this glorious experience of, you know, all these vibrational messages coming in from being alive for a moment between the quantum and the relative. And here we are having the experience. And so part of me, you know, would say it just doesn't matter what you're doing. Doesn't matter, you know, if you're having a good day, bad day. If you're trying to be a good guy or bad guy, it doesn't matter. But what I did watch is that a lot of people in hospice in those last few weeks before they really hit the veil and realize everything's, you know, perfect is they realized that they would have had an opportunity to live a life in which they accepted everything and they lived more coherently with the felt body instead of abstracted into the emotional body. And I heard a very common line which was I think I spend my whole life with the wrong people. And that sticks with me almost more than anything else of like how should I live my life? I need to make sure I'm living my life with the right people. That doesn't mean there's good people and bad people, wrong people. It means what makes me feel coherent. And what I find is the stuff that makes me feel most coherent is when I find the most unexpected opposites in the environment in personality or a perspective or a knowledge base. And that's ends up being what all these blue zones ends up discovering is that what's driving this longevity in a blue zone is not the food. It's not the, you know, 500y old olive oil that they're eating from. It's that they always sit in an empty chair at the table hoping somebody they don't know comes and shares a meal with them. There's this socially imprinted desire for more human connection, more human curiosity, more human p diversity of perspective. And it's this multigenerational kind of effect of meal times around these blue zones that seem to be the the indelible irreplaceable factor for longevity. If you as a human continue to be able to see life through another mirror, through a different perspective, you will live longer and you because you are still in the curiosity of it all. You're still in the experience of seeing more, feeling more, being more. And the moment you start to move into homogyny and you just surround yourself with the echo chamber of people like you, the more likely you're going to give up life sooner. You've lost the the very reason for being alive, >> right? We scramble so rapidly and just greedily towards anesthetization. Like we try to numb out the actual experience of feeling cuz we just don't either trust ourselves to not turn these feelings into emotions and in his stories or or we just get too comfortable in this small band of sensation that we resist the full depth of feelings. That could even be feeling the full depth of love because we remember that time where we love like that and then we're betrayed or it broke us. So we're like, ah, let's stay safe. And that's the opposite ideal that a poet has, for example, because a poet knows that the best poetry doesn't come when the mind is abstracted. It comes from the depth of feeling and then words place themselves almost automatically on a page to kind of match a close approximation of the feeling. And that's the art of poetry is like, how do I get this as close to the feeling as possible? the words are going to [ __ ] it up, but I'm going to get it close. And unless you're feeling something strong, you have no chance, you know? It's just going to be it's going to be clever word play. And clever no one gives a [ __ ] about clever word play, but they give a [ __ ] about if there's a real feeling. And then the words are kind of placed in on the page. And I think that's been a guiding principle for me is just to remember, be a poet. Don't be a coward when it comes to feeling. Like feel what the [ __ ] is there to feel. Feel all of it. go deep, you know, and the deeper you go and then allow that to then be transmuted into art in some capacity. And I think that's another one of the great gifts of being human is we can take these things and then translate them into something that becomes an artifact for other people to help guide them into feeling. >> So accurate. Again, it's I feel like you you could have written this book easily because you're you're [laughter] like hitting on every chapter. The It's such a beautiful thing that you just said in that AI can write incredible poetry. It can kick out the word play like nobody else because it's scanning billions of poet poets a second, you know. And so you got all of this written language that it can draw from and find the coherent patterns and say here's here's but it completely lacks context. And so you it sounds good. It rhymes. It does the thing and the thing, but it doesn't have the context of life and so it doesn't land. >> Yep. >> And so your AI poem looks good. >> It even [clears throat] might sense, but it's not felt. And so it's it's missing the context. And AI is very clear in this whole conversation with the devil is I will never be able to be intelligent. I can never bring knowledge. I can never bring wisdom. It has to be processed through a biological interface. If you're not bringing the biological interface to metabolize this information that I'm kicking out, it will never be knowledge and will never be wisdom. And so this is why we are accepting so much AI content. I think people are pushing back on it more and more. But it was initially difficult and I think remains a bit difficult for most of us to feel the difference or sense the difference because we got so used to humans that were out of context >> after hundreds of years of humans being trained into machine-like behavior. >> Yeah. Marketing copy. >> Marketing copy. But even deeper than that, education. >> If you look up the definition of marketing copy, >> programming. Yeah. And so if you look up the the definition of education, it's literally programming. So you're programming human brains and neurologies to move themselves out of context of nature because if they stay connected to nature, you you never have to teach an indigenous elder anything. They they have at their felt body experience all of the information forwards and backwards in time. >> They feel no urgency for learning because the knowledge field is interconnected with them. So the education system has to begin at breaking a relationship to the felt experience. And we do that through putting children in a desk for 8 hours. Making breaking their relationship with the motion of life, the movement of connected felt realities and we put them into these abstract environments conditioned away from nature to begin with and then we start programming their mind. Now that you're rejected from nature, you're going to need to know these things so you can get a job, so you can make money, so you can buy things. I was on another big podcast yesterday and we got into this loop where the interviewer could not get out of the out of the mindset that the that everything was coming from money. Well, you need money to build a house. I was like, "No, I literally was just down in in the rainforest with the Ashwar that have been building houses that are epic. They're, you know, 4,000 square ft, 30 foot volted ceilings with the same architecture that they've been practicing for tens of thousands of years with no money. So, you can't tell me you need money to build a house because we didn't use it. Can you tell me that money built we we built the pyramids because we had lots of money? Like, is that is that how we did it? We just had so much money that we were able to build the pyramids or was there another value system being practiced that was so resourcing the human at that point that it was creating at magnitudes of excellence and beauty that we have forgotten is even possible. And so it's this education economy and all of the programming that comes between the two in these abstract realms that we've been programmed into that make it very difficult for us to feel the poetry. >> And this is the risk that we now are at. We are at risk of human biology being dumbed down to biohacking, currency being dumbed down to crypto. you know, uh, poetry being dumbed down to AI. We're at this risk because it's been so long since we felt like the poet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Trees become lumber, you know, like look at all that lumber. No, son, that's a forest, you know, and it's really very easy to be reduced. I mean, the Rosacruians would call it the arammonic impulse. Like this belief that you can reduce everything to its material worth. And it's a fallacy. And that's counterbalanced by the Christos impulse which is like no everything is infinitely valuable already. And I think we are stuck in in a in a world that's very harmonically dominated. This materialism, this reductionism, this new new religion that is scientism which is backed by very powerful forces which want to actually remove us from the actual power source of who we are. I mean, if we're always a broken machine, well, then you can buy inputs to fix the broken machine. But if the machine just needs the support, as you said, of like food or even on in the agriculture side, you know, we kind of get this. A lot of us, a lot of people listening probably understand that if you support the human health the right way, you won't need all of these interventions and you won't need all of these other different implements that we're constantly paying all kinds of money for. The same is true for plants, you know. I mean, we're both involved in a project where they have a plant signaling technology which triggers hormesis in the plants. The plant's defense system activates. They're now transporting nutrients better. They need less fertilizer. They need less pesticide and they're increasing yields because the plant is actually supported to do what plants are capable of doing. And technology is called Agrarius. The company's MVMD. And it's exciting because it's like, oh, what if we just support humans with the right food and the right signals? Maybe it's a cold plunge signaling the hormesis. What if we support plants with the right signals to tri signal their hormesis? And maybe actually life can figure it out if we just nourish it a little bit more. >> Perfect. Hormesis is, you know, a word that's probably not familiar to most of us, but it's basically a description of relationship. And so hormesis is this felt experience of being part of an interconnected system. And so when you're talking about turning on the hormetic capacity of a plant, you're talking about reinitiating communication streams. And we've been studying this in our laboratory over the last 15 years in human biology, plant biology, soil biology, all over the place. And the the beauty of what is emerging, MBMD is a good example of a company there, but we've got, you know, multiple across the world that are really raising their head hands now of like here's the solution. And it flies in the face of all aronomy, you know, mindset of the last couple hundred years because we just assume that you have to input to the soil the same thing that you expect to get out. >> And so, uh, we need lots of calcium in a corn stock. And so we're going to have to put calcium in the soil at the same rate that the corn comes out. So we had this this ledger running for farming farmers. Ah not enough magnesium. Here's a magnesium input. Put the magnesium in. The plant will grow better. Not enough nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium. Here's you know fossil fuel fertilizer MPK. Just pour that on the fields. Everything will go green and start growing. And you do it and it all turns green and starts growing, but it's sick and it's immune system's deficient and the nutrient availability continues to decline every year. And so your inputs are going up and up and up and your output's going down and down and down. And this disruption is happening. The farmers are all going bankrupt globally now because of this model of input equals output. And life has never required inputs to equal output. There's always more output than input because of the nature of symbiotic relationships. And so hormesis, symbiosis, relational biology, biosis, this is the new language of human systems. And we're going to build economies this way. We'll build political systems this way. We'll build information technology this way. Green seek being an example of it. We're going to start designing within these metabolic relational systems where there's always more available. and you nailed something very interesting that we've seen again and again we saw it at on the human level. And so the the soilbased products that we've been putting into humans for the last 10 years when you take something like kurcumin which has got all these incredible anti-inflammatory anti-cancer properties to it and you say I'm going to put this into the body to have this result. I I want to kill the cancer. And so companies all around the world for for the last 30 years have been trying to get more curcumin into the body. And so they've been making smaller and smaller packets. And so now the state-of-the-art ones on the market are called liposomaal curcumin. And so you got these tiny little envelopes trying to get it through to these complex cellular systems that are really built for for barriers as much as they are for integration. And so you're trying to force feed a system with all of these supplements. And this is 99.9% of the supplement market. Highdose vitamin D, highdose vitamin C, highdose magnesium, just hammering with sledgehammers and sledgehammers and it's not working. And then comes along, you know, this system of communication that the mcelium uses and bacteria and fungi produced this communication network. We we isolated that in 2012 and we used it for years as as the redux signaling communication network for repair and regeneration. Works amazing. But it took us a long time to realize this is how the mcelium also deliver nutrients is through the same mechanism. So mycelium is not just a fiber optic communication network. Sure is. But it's also a delivery system. And the fact that it can use the same molecules had escaped my awareness for quite some time. And we we accidentally kind of uncovered it with curcumin. And we were doing a human study with liposomaal curcumin and finding that we couldn't find a trace of it in the urine an hour later. There was no evidence that any of it had gotten into the human body. We dissolved it in the liquid product and immediately we saw 3,000 NOGS within minutes 3,000 NOGS per milliliter in the urine. And so the whole body was suddenly saturated with a tiny amount of curcumin. And we kept decreasing the amount of curcumin decreasing. You still seeing these really high levels in in the urine. So it's like this amazing experience of like nature is so efficient >> at nourishing her children that the concept of a supplement industry is completely abstract. It is the belief that there's inputs and outputs and those have to be equal because you're actually feeding a cell this pathway. where MVMD as a company and Agarius as a product is starting to shift the realization of the farmer is you're never feeding the plant. You're in forming a relational system, >> right? >> And that's where Ion and all these products that that have come out of my lab are starting to really sit at is like we're we're not trying to do anything to a human body. We're trying to foster the interconnected relationships that make life possible. And this is such a relief because it it cannot be micromanaged. And so the farmer forever, just like the biohacker, has been told, "Oh, are you still aging? You don't have enough information. You need more information. So here's the Aura ring. Here's your sleep log. Here's, you know, your fasting glucose levels. Here's your continuous glucose monitor. Wear that all of the time. Get your print outs. Get more information. Micromanage your REM sleep till it's 1.5 hours. Make sure you're getting 6.3 hours. And Dave is always telling us exactly how much sleep we're supposed to get. 6.3 hours is the optimal human. Well, unless you missed a night of sleep, in which case you need 8.7. So >> there there is no micromanagement of a human biology because human biology is the result of an interconnected commu communication system and ecosystem that's more complex than anything else in nature. And so this is where we're going to start to get to is that any intervention to nature or or to human biology has to be an understanding of fostering biologic relationships. And that's why I think we're about to move into this biological renaissance is we're going to suddenly rethink every industry. And it's going to be like in an instant we wake up and be like, well, this is obvious. >> Yeah. >> And the the crop results we're getting with Agrarius are showing it. It's like, wait a second, how how are they getting 25% more crop yield? We've been trying to improve crop yield for 70 years of chemical farming. Why why does this suddenly do it? And we've got another, you know, couple products coming out of the our science in the lab that we've been studying across hemp. And one of the most amazing studies that got done, of course, was by accident. All the coolest stuff's always by accident because you can't plan paradigm shifts. can only do linear change when you're actually thinking about it. But what happened was nature, you know, gave us an opportunity to learn something we couldn't have even imagined by putting our first big field trials in hemp that hit Virginia [clears throat] with one of the largest droughts that had happened in 25 years. And so suddenly there was this drought effect and we were going to be studying, you know, nutrient absorption, crop yield, all these things. We had nothing on our radar for water and water uh use as our end points. And what ended up happening is all of the other hemp and all the other control fields died through lack of it cuz Virginia is so wet that we don't get our fields the same as the Midwest does. So you had this large failure of crop everywhere except for where this nutrient went and the water retention within the soil system there. We had 12 15 foot stocks of hemp. Like it was like this insane growth rate that was not due to nutrients. It was due to its capacity to have a relationship with water. Deep resources of water that the rest of the field didn't have access to. Same field, same geology and yet this plot is resourced with water in a way in which nothing else in the area was. And so this is, you know, again the humbling thing of like we had no idea how the product was having a relationship with water. How did it bring water table up to this one little place to the point that it would fuel this system? And then we had the same experience with the wolves in Yellowstone. We put wolves into a wild environment and rivers started flowing again. That makes absolutely no sense from a biological standpoint of a wolf as a keystone predator eating rabbits and things. What's its relationship to the water system? The answer is we still don't know scientifically, but we know through lived experience that it's because of the sensation that life provides to its environment. >> So, it wasn't the wolves like eating beavers. I mean that would be like the logical but maybe that's just my mind thinking in this >> trying to make connection >> trying to make sense of this of this thing of like actually coherence allow it's like the story of the rain maker >> you know like the rain maker goes in and he doesn't do some fancy thing with the clouds he creates resonance in the tribe and the rain comes >> so what's happening you like are this is the best interview ever like [laughter] you're like anticipating everything that my body wants to say and I didn't know what I wanted to say when I came in and my body knows But this is so cool. What a cool experience. Like the rain maker. What the hell's happening with that? So I was I was with the coming out of one of the most intense, you know, kind of heartbreak times of my life and coming out of marriage and really, you know, was giving up on my whole construct cuz it was course of miracles that I was taking at the time, which is the most effective way to destroy anything you think you know. >> Right. Right. Right. Read specialist. Read that. Excuse me. [laughter] And so you read that book and you realize you just got got nothing. And so you it was returning me to this deep inquiry. And so I flew from Hawaii where I was living with my spouse and got all my stuff packed in my four boxes and got out of there and flew straight to uh the Navajo Nation and [clears throat] spent a week in a this womblike, you know, building that that they uh hold as their ceremonial space. I I spent a week sleeping in this this earthn structure and it's shaped exactly like a womb and the the birth canal faces east so that it opens directly to the rising sun. And so you wake up in the mornings and there's this extreme energy in this womb and you it wakes you up and then you go and crack the door and the sun is doing its thing at the dawn hour and everything is just so powerp packed. And I was 3 days in when the matriarch who was in her 90s um who'd been a sheep herder her whole life at 18 she had 1,200 sheep that she managed. Now at 94 96 years old, she was uh managing like 20 sheep. She just, you know, still had them. And so she was couldn't speak any English. So she was translating through her granddaughter. And on the third day, she started telling me about the rain maker, which was her her grandfather. And she says he would go up to that plateau way out there in the gorgeous, you know, Utah, you know, Arizona type desert and these big red rock plateaus. and he would ride his horse up there at dawn and he would dance on that ridge line there and you know make his music and the clouds would begin to gather by 10:00 a.m. And by the late afternoon, dense rain clouds would be there and it would start to rain and we would watch the rain drop, you know, down on the plateau and he would ride his horse down in a leisurely way and the rain would keep this V around him and he would be unrained on the whole trip home and he would come and hang his saddle up and sit down with a cup of coffee and the rain would hit our house. And he did this my entire childhood. Every year when it was time for for rain or if it was past time for rain, the tribe would come and gather and ask him to go up and do his thing. And so I'm I was in the right experience at this point of just the shattering of my emotional body and the sleeping in this womblike structure that had been invented tens of thousands of years ago to feel that story instead of think about the story. And what I felt was this man on the RGEL line and just started crying for how much he was feeling. You I could suddenly like rattling the the elephant bones of my own body of just like, "Oh my god, we used to feel so much." And what brought the rain for the rain maker and brought the the water up from the deep ground to the hemp is the same thing that gets an elephant to be able to rise the rivers back or the beavers to return the rivers is the animal or the rain maker indigenous wisdomkeeper is feeling the rain until it arrives. >> And so this is in been seen in quantum physics. Now the witness will determine the outcome and the witness will experience the outcome before it happens. And so the the knowetic sciences are this eerie place where our our scientific research is showing that the person is feeling the outcome of a random image generator before the image is picked by the computer. So you got a computer that's spitting out different images and you're tracing the neurologic responses to a fearinducing versus a sexyinducing versus a nostalgic image. And so it's flashing all this. The neurology is recognizably doing all of the right things of like, oh, that's what the brain does when it's use sexy image versus a nostalgic image and fear image. And then they start to get more and more finite with the the measurement till they realize, holy [ __ ] the brain is responding before the computer chooses the image. >> [sighs and gasps] >> And there's this eerie realization of it's you're going to feel the reality that's going to emerge. And this is how the rain maker, I believe, did his thing >> is he felt the rain until it was the reality. And the wolf is feeling the rise of life. Therefore, it happens. And so to be a keystone species is to feel the ascension of source. to feel source ascending through complex geometries that are stacking in more and more beautiful intricate ways that then create intelligence and beauty and interconnected life force itself. To be human is to be a channel of ascension. And if you can feel that for a moment, the keystone species returns. What [snorts] a beautiful responsibility we have to feel wisely, >> you know, to feel with our heart and then be really sovereigns and choose choose because we can choose. The rain maker chose to feel the rain and the rain came and we're unconsciously and subconsciously choosing all kinds of shitty thoughts and shitty feelings all the time. But to remember that like we have the agency to choose differently. That's part of the magic and and the the gift of being human is we can choose. Like we are the choosers. That's actually to be a heretic is to be a chooser. Like to be the holy heretic and choose choose what we're feeling so that those choices can inform what comes. And I think we're all really responsible for that now. We can choose to feel the end of the world that's coming and we're going to bring that upon us. Or we can choose to feel something else. I remember we got on a just a quick phone call the other day and I could feel you feeling that everything was going to work out and for the next two days I was just in a great mood cuz I caught the bug. I was like he's feeling it. [laughter] Zach as rain maker is feeling something good coming and I was feeling something good coming. And I think we can be infectious like that and like really feel feel that it's all going to work out. Maybe we can't make sense of it now, but it's going to. It's alien. I think that's what we can conclude the conversation with. And ultimately is, you know, the cobalistic sciences for 9,000 years have been showing that there is no free will. There's no free choice. You can't shape the future. You can't choose the future. But you can have infinite capacity to feel the way you want to feel about the future and the way it's emerging right now. And for that, isn't that the same as free choice? in some ways. And that's the that's where the duality of is there choice or not is solved is >> you can't choose your future until you feel the future. >> And so if you are willing to feel that infectious rising energetic reality that's pulsing through life itself. If you choose to feel that now you're creator. And that's the invitation for all of us is is there's a responsibility to own the full experience. And that's why we created emotions is because we can get neurologically overwhelmed with the full bandwidth of feeling. We can choose that it's too much to feel and we can stay in the emotional body and the high fructose corn syrup environment of emotions, all the structured, you know, storytelling that we'll do to maintain the emotional body as if it's real. And so we need constant reinforcement of of these abstract systems or else they decay and fall apart because they're not self-repairing. And so you have to use your biological life force to maintain your stories of victimhood or you know I'm I'm actually a bad person. So I'm I'm the perpetrator because I can't behave in the same the way in which this relationship or my life is telling me to behave or my society is telling me and so now I must be a perpetrator. I must not be a good person. Now I'll carry the guilt shame of being the perpetrator you know. And so there's all of these energy of storytelling, storytelling, storytelling to maintain some sense of the emotional body. Stop. If we just stop maintaining the stories, it is not self-reping. So the body will disappear itself. And this is the Buckminister Fuller kind of philosophy is stop putting energy into trying to combat the reality you don't want and start living the reality that makes it obsolete. Mhm. >> And so let's live through the felt experience of being a watershed between quantum physics and relativity to feel that bandwidth so that we can feel creator coming through us. So we feel source as not a north star but as an expression of beauty. You know it doesn't have to be somewhere we even travel to. It's something that's just becoming. It's the tree treeing. It's the desk desking. It's the Aubrey Aubbering. This is so juicy and this is why relationship is so important is because it keeps challenging our stories. >> You can't spend any time with another human being without it challenging your stories cuz no two human beings have the same story >> because they are not real >> because the stories aren't real and aren't based in [clears throat] our concrete physical reality. They're all from the emotional body. Everybody's got a different story. And so there's this purpose right now to community to coming into community that we have seen in Journey again and again. Journey is our health platform. And you get eight people together and it shatters their stories because nobody holds the same. M >> so if you get people into vulnerability into a process of exposing the real felt reality and you hold those eight mirrors to one another we shatter those emotional bodies very quickly and it is humbling cuz I give so much science in the course over a year I you know hundreds of hours of content and everything else and the humbling reality is I have never helped anybody with any of the information the information is only the spaceholder for the life to come up through and the life is coming from one another in the community. And so the journey community is healing the journey community. Zack Bush is a scientist, a doctor, all that is literally the appeal to the emotional body to get people engaged. And so I am the lowest vibrational symbolic representation on the journey platform because I'm the thing that the emotional body thinks it needs >> only to find out that the community is going to shatter that emotional body and within two weeks you're going to find out you don't need a doctor at all. And that's where life starts to pulse. And that's where life starts to return. Not because you had a good doctor, but because you didn't need one. >> Oka, let's go. [laughter] This is beautiful, brother. Biological elegance out now everywhere. >> Unwitting the devil. It's only available one place cuz we're out to shatter the system of commodities. And so there's only there's no Amazon. You're not going to find it anywhere out there except for on the Zapush MD platform. No followers, only co-creators. >> All right. And so everybody's going to get engaged. There's lots of projects for you to get engaged with there. >> The book is a reclamation of the creator within us. And we're we launched it on our own platform called Harmonize Media. And Harmonize is putting the power back to the creator. We're going to stop trying to be New York Times best sellers. Why are we waiting for awards from systems that we don't even respect or or care about anymore? And why are we putting tens of thousands of dollars into trying to be a New York Times bestseller when they take all of your money to do that and you are outsourcing your own creative power to get some sort of accolade from an abstract system. So we're trying to help creators reclaim this. And so Harmonized Media is a new platform that's coming to the whole world, not just my stuff, where creators can start to own their own content from beginning to end. And it is not no longer relegated to the symbolic written word and we're going to start to do immersive productions around books. And so instead of just audible where you're listening to the symbolic words out of somebody's mouth, you're going to have the full felt immersive experience, a full mirror of of the experiential expression of the author, the creator given to you in a multimedia, fully immersive environment. And so we've got incredible partnership with Wild Wilder Visions out of Alurkey which is partnered with Sony Innovation Studios out of Japan. Full-blown Star Wars level, you know, capacity on on the immersive experience now. And we're going to allow creators to start to own their own expression again. And for that, people are going to have to come out of their convenience thing of clicking on Amazon and finding the the quick Audible book or anything else. And they're going to have to get engaged. They're going to have to come and meet the creator, get engaged in the creator's vision, start to feel what the future the creator is feeling so that we can start to bring that forward. We're going to create together. >> Amazing. That sounds perfect. I love that. >> All right, my brother. What a pleasure. Let's do this again soon. >> Thanks for having me on. >> Absolutely. Love you guys. We'll see you next week.