Video summary
The video addresses the theological debate surrounding whether salvation can be lost, specifically focusing on John 15:2 where Jesus states that every branch in Him that does not bear fruit will be taken away. The speaker initially acknowledges the apparent logic that if a branch is cut off for failing to produce fruit, it suggests one can forfeit their standing in Christ. However, the argument quickly shifts to prevent this verse from being used as proof against the doctrine of eternal security. The core contention is that while the text describes branches being removed, the context and audience of the passage must be carefully examined to avoid misapplication to modern believers.
To clarify the scope of John 15, the speaker draws a parallel with Romans 11, where Paul discusses branches being broken off from the olive tree representing Israel. In that context, the branches that were cut off were Jewish people who had been in a covenant relationship but were removed due to unbelief and disobedience. The speaker emphasizes that God had warned Israel beforehand about the consequences of their idolatry and lack of faith, as prophesied in Deuteronomy 32. Consequently, the removal of these branches was not an arbitrary act but a fulfillment of prophecy regarding those who rejected God's call. This distinction is crucial because it shows that the "cutting off" refers to a specific historical group under the old covenant who failed to maintain their faith, rather than believers in the new covenant who are secured by grace.
The speaker further argues that the audience of John 15 was primarily the apostles and early followers who had already been cleansed by the Word and regenerated by the Spirit. Jesus tells them directly that they will bear fruit continuously if they abide in Him, implying a certainty for those who truly belong to Him. The command to "abide" is presented as a condition for genuine believers, but the speaker posits that true abiding is inseparable from faith; therefore, a person who genuinely possesses saving faith will inevitably bear fruit. If someone appears to be cut off and cast into the fire, it indicates they never truly possessed the life of Christ in the first place, having fallen away through persistent unbelief rather than losing a salvation they already had.
In conclusion, the video asserts that John 15:2 does not disprove "Once Saved Always Saved" when applied correctly to genuine Christians today. The verses describing branches being thrown into the fire are understood to describe those who were never truly saved or who apostatized through deliberate rejection of Christ, rather than believers losing their salvation due to a temporary lapse. The speaker maintains that while scripture warns against apostasy, true salvation is secured by grace and faith, meaning that any apparent loss of fruitfulness in a believer's life points to a lack of genuine regeneration rather than the forfeiture of eternal security. Thus, the passage serves as a warning about the necessity of abiding in Christ through faith, not as evidence that a saved person can lose their salvation.
Read the full video transcript
Can you state and show what the in me in
John 15:2 means and why it can't be used
to disprove once saved always saved?
This question has happened before. So,
let's go to
John 15. You know what I'm do? I'm going
to ask the audience to help me with
this.
Of course, you need the audience to help
you with this. No, I want to see if you
guys can figure this out.
So John 15 verse 2,
I am the vine and my father's the vine
dresser. Every branch in me that does
not bear fruit he takes away.
There's two ways you can look at this
and by the way I think both of them are
actually appropriate.
One,
every branch in him, you can say, will
remain in him because every branch in
him will bear fruit. But every br but
you can take this that every branch in
me that doesn't bear fruit will will be
cut off. Wait a second. How did the
branch get in Christ to begin with? How
could every any branch how the if the
branch is in him then the branch is in
him?
Dog gone it. That's a good point. That
is a good point. And it has caused me to
rethink everything that I've thought of.
And so clearly you can lose your
salvation.
Yep. Clearly salvation can be forfeited.
And so therefore
you're right. You you are absolutely
right. Positively right.
Not really.
Not really. Here's why. Let me give you
a couple passages. Go back to it.
This I'm sorry, wrong way of putting it.
This phrase right here, every branch.
Can you think of another place where the
where this analogy is used?
Can you think of another place where
where that particular analogy is used?
H I'm waiting on my audience. Let's go
back over here because I want my
audience to see it. Can you think of a
place where this analogy could actually
be used?
I'm waiting for you guys to put it up
and I want to wait cuz I want to see I
want to see if you guys can We've
covered this before. So, I've got my
little scripture waiting.
Where where has this analogy been used?
Stephen says Stephen the Christian
says Paul's letters. All right. All
right, Stephen,
you're a little smart Alex person. Which
one of his 4,700 letters,
where have you now, and I know I know
Stephen knows where where exactly have
we? He said, I forgot exactly, Eddie.
Romans Romans 11. You want to narrow it
down for me a little bit? Romans 11. How
about 11:17?
But if some of the branches were cut
off, let's pause for a second. Let's
see. Let's see if this if this makes
sense. So, we're talking about the
branches. And if some of the branches
were cut off,
okay, or cast away, the word that's used
there is the word cast away. By the way,
this word echo,
this is also the word that that that uh
the Lord says uh that I will never cast
them away.
I'm I'm never gonna I'm never going to
do this to them. I'm never going to
throw them away, break off, or send them
away.
Who is in this letter, ladies and
gentlemen, in this particular part of
the letter, who is Paul talking about?
We got to make sure that we don't have a
contradiction. If we got a
contradiction, we might need to fix
this.
So, who is Paul talking about in Romans
11?
Romans 11. But if some of the branches
were broken off,
and notice what Paul says,
you might say
um that some of the branches were broken
off so that I might be grafted in who
the you are us Gentiles, the branches
that were broken off, who the Jews. And
he says, quite right. You're absolutely
right. So there were some branches that
were in him that were cut off.
Now let's do some thinking so we can
finish today saying we did a whole lot
of thunking.
The branches that were cut off that were
in him.
Why were they cut off?
I'll wait for you guys.
I may have to hopefully I don't have to
wait for too long. Why were those
branches that he's speaking about in
Romans 11 that Paul is speaking about,
why were they broken off?
Thank you, Devonte. Unbelief.
Unbelief.
Was this prophesied?
Sure it was prophesied. Deuteronomy 32
chapter 16- 21. Now, before we go,
Exactly, Stephen. They did not believe.
But now, let's pause.
because we're still in the same vein of
thought here. We're in Romans 11 right
here. We're in Romans 11:20.
Let's scroll back up to how Romans 11
initially started. Let's go to verse
one. We're not going to read all of
this. I say then, God has not rejected
his people, has he? Who's he speaking?
He's speaking about Israel. May it never
be. I too am an Israelite.
But I want to show you something.
Drop down. We're still reading verse 11.
I mean chapter 11. What then? What
Israel is seeking it is not obtained,
but those who were chosen obtained it.
Let's just highlight that for a second
cuz we're going to come back to the part
that was chosen. Uh-oh, I did something
here. We're going to come back to the
part that was chosen in just a little
bit.
And the rest were hardened just as it is
written. God gave them a uh gave them a
spirit of stuper, eyes to see uh not and
ears to hear not down to this very day.
And David said, "Let their table become
a snare and a trap and a stumbling block
and a retribution to them. Let their
eyes be darkened to see not and bend
their backs forever, which is kind of
what Isaiah was talking about." But look
at this verse right here. I say then,
they that is the Jews did not stumble so
as to fall. Did they? May it never be.
But look what he says. But by their
transgression, salvation has come to the
Gentiles to do what? To make them
jealous. Salvation has come to the
Gentiles to make them jealous.
Let's go back to Romans
11. And where were we at? I think 18, I
think, is what it was.
Uh, is it Romans? No, why' I put in 28?
Romans 11:18. Mister.
No, I'm sorry. Verse 20. Branches were
cut off were broken off so that I might
be grafted in. Quite right. They were
broken off for their unbelief.
Let's go back over here. These branches
were cut off. May it never be. But by
their transgression, salvation has come
to the Gentiles to make them jealous.
Where did this come from? This came from
the Old Testament. Deuteronomy
632:16-21.
They made me God jealous with their
unbelief, their abominations, going
after other gods. So what did God say he
would do? Verse 21, he says, "They have
made me jealous with what is not God.
They have provoked me to anger with
their idols." So guess what I'm going to
do? God says, "I will make them jealous
with those who are not a people. I will
provoke them to anger with a foolish
nation." So God, I know we're still
talking about John 15, but I'm trying to
give you the whole picture. So God has
promised to make Israel jealous.
These Israel is is chosen to be in him.
He's named them to follow after him.
He's called them his people.
But clearly he broke them off. They were
cut off.
They were cut off. Why? According to
Paul, these branches were broken off
because of unbelief.
Now, let's go back to John 15. Every
branch in me that does not bear fruit,
he takes away. So, is it possible that
the every branch that's in him could
could be referring to Israel, to these
Jews? Now, he's talking to them before
the new covenant. He's talking to them
before he has been glorified.
So I think that what he's saying is
every branch that's in me that does not
bear fruit, he takes away. So if you are
in me, if you are a Jew and you are in
me and you don't bear fruit, you are
being cut off. Now covenantally
speaking, what' you say? So in me
according to the covenant and not
salvation. So in covenantally speaking,
where were the Jews
thought to be positioned in the Lord?
Now, they weren't. They actually
weren't. They thought they were, but
they had unbelief. By the way, God has
been saying these this is going to
happen all along. He's He's been saying
this. He's been He's been leading up.
And they just didn't believe. Ain't it
amazing how God can give all of these
warnings, all of these things. Hey guys,
this what this is what's required. This
what you should be, but this is what I'm
going to do. And oh, by the way, God
said that he is going to do this. Notice
in Deuteronomy 32,
this is at the very outset.
This is at the very outset of them uh
and this covenant being made,
right?
He already told them even before they
went into the land, before you go into
the land, I'm telling you now, you're
going to go in and you're going to
disobey me and I'm going to put you out.
We ain't even gotten in there, God.
Can't we even enjoy it, man? God, we
can't have nothing nice. you going, you
just too harsh, God.
Now,
he's told them what's going to happen.
It starts happening. And when we see it
happening, we're like, "What just
happened?" Well, he told us. So, all of
you that are in me, if you don't bear
fruit, by the way, what causes you to
bear fruit?
What causes you to bear fruit is this
right here,
your heart.
Your heart is going to cause you to bear
good fruit or bad fruit. You got a bad
heart, so what are you going to bear bad
fruit? You got a good heart, what are
you going to do? You're going to bear
good fruit. Jesus says that if your
heart is good, you are going to bear
fruit for how long? Forever. Now, keep
that in mind. Keep the fact that I'm
going to bear fruit forever. And listen
to what Jesus says in John 15. The every
fruit that does not bear me. See if this
works. Every fruit that bear I mean
every fruit every branch that that's in
me that does not bear fruit he takes
away. You know what you're going to be
gathe you're going to be thrown out
withered up dried up gathered together
and thrown in the fire. You are on your
way to hell.
He prunes it
so that it may bear more fruit. You are
already clean because of the word which
I have spoken to you. Who is the you
that he's speaking about?
The U would be his followers. That would
be the apostle, the the soon to be
apostles. We know it's them because he
already told them in John 13 that you
have been cleansed, your heart has been
cleansed. Are you guys following? If
your heart is cleansed or your heart is
circumcised or your heart is geoam born
from above or born of the father, born
of the spirit or if your heart is
regenerated,
what will you do? What will happen if
you are clean on the inside? You got a
clean heart. Jesus says in Luke 8, you
will bear fruit with perseverance
continuously. Right? So Jesus is saying
you you guys use you guys or use as they
would say
you people
by the way it's plural you people
already already are you clean
because of the word which I have spoken
to you. So he's not talking to us just
yet. So when when we use John 15,
I use John 15 to to refute people that
would bring it up for one to deny once
saved always saved. And I've always said
that it if you think it applies to us,
then fine. But if it doesn't apply to
us, then stop using. I don't think John
15 is applying to us as believers yet.
It's just speaking to the to the
apostles. So he says, "You are already
clean." He's clearly not talking about
us. He's talking to about the apostles.
This is John 15 which takes place after
the feet washing.
He says, "Abide in me and I in you as
the branch cannot bear fruit of itself."
So if you're in him, you'll you'll bear
fruit. If you're out of him, you won't
bear fruit.
Oh, dog gone it. Wait a second. Please
do not block him. Don't block Allen
Burns. Allan Burns, can I give you
something? Let me help you out, brother.
Let me help you out. And listen, I I
appreciate I appreciate the insults.
Nobody on the planet appreciates insults
better than me.
I got something for you right there.
Right. Right there, sir. Right there.
Tada.
Got a spot right waiting just for you.
Not smart Christian. In short, we are
saved by grace through faith. We remain
secure in abiding in Christ. And
scripture repeatedly warns that genuine
apostasy deliberately turning from
Christ into persistent unbelief results
in final loss. Okay. Um I'm not going to
recant or recount what I've said
previously.
All y'all already all you have to do is
hit the link and I will engage in a
discussion. If you think I'm not smart,
pray for me, brother. All right. But
let's get back to what I was saying.
He's telling them, "Abide in me and I in
you." As the branch cannot bear fruit of
itself unless it abides in the vine.
Will Christians or will they abide in
the vine?
I think the answer is yes because he
says in Luke 8 that they will abide in
the vine. He tells them, "So neither can
you unless you abide in me. I am the
vine and you are the branches." Now keep
that in mind.
If anyone does not abide in me, he's
thrown away as a branch and dries up and
they gather them together and cast him
into the fire.
That seems pretty clear. As a matter of
fact, this is one of the verses that I
used to go to all the time to say that
you can lose your salvation.
You can because of this verse, right?
Because this set of passages.
And then I was told, Corey,
why don't you keep reading?
And I said, huh?
Why don't you keep reading, knucklehead?
And I said, "Okay, fine. I'll keep
reading." So, I just kept reading and I
kept reading and I kept reading. I kept
reading and I kept reading. I dropped
down to verse, "This is my commandment
that you love one another just as I've
loved you. Greater love has no one than
this, they lay down his life for his
friend. You are my friend if you do what
I command you. No longer do I call you
slaves." Um because a mass a slave to
know what his master was doing, but I
have called you friends. Continue verse
16. Hm. Interesting. You did not choose
me, but I chose you. Isn't that what
Paul brings up also in Romans? You
didn't choose me, but I chose you. And
look what it says. And appointed you
that you would go and bear fruit and
that fruit would remain. So what is
Jesus saying about them? that they will
I appointed you Athea and not just
placed you but at the I've placed it so
that you will bear fruit and that fruit
will remain. So why are they being cut
off? Jesus says that unless you abide in
me you will not bear fruit. If you don't
bear fruit you'll be cut off. What did
Jesus just say? You will bear fruit. So
of those Jews there are those that were
cut off because of unbelief and not
bearing fruit. You can't bear fruit if
you don't have any belief. If you're
bearing fruit, keep bearing fruit. Jesus
says, "You will keep bearing fruit." So
Paul wraps this up. I shouldn't say wrap
it up, but he covers this by speaking
about branches that were broken off.
Why? For unbelief. Those and where and
where were the if the branches were
broken off in in Romans. If they were
broken off for unbelief, where were they
at? If they were broken off, they were
that that means they were there in him.
So who was Paul speaking about in Romans
11 about the branches being broken off?
Israel. They were already in him.
Make the connection. Amen.