A Man With Sole Q&A with Kenneth Cole and producer, Dori Berinstein

[applause] Such a tremendous thrill and honor to have you both here. Thank you for sharing that amazing film with us. Um, I just have a few questions. We'll get through quickly some burning questions I have and then we'd like to open it up to the audience to ask anything they'd like. Um, Kenneth, when Dory first approached you about making you the subject of a documentary, were you uh hesitant or were you all in immediately? >> Um, we had spoken about it a little bit. Um, and we had just worked on a separate project. Dory can speak to that a little bit before that. And so Dory had proposed the concept of doing it. And I I trusted Dory. I knew of her work. I felt this was going to require a lot of trust andor therapy um or a great pharmacologist because I was going to have to this is this was the only probably the only meaningful creative project in my entire career which I did not retain some oversight control. So um and the first time I saw the film was with an audience and people asked me how I what that was like. I guess I don't know. I was under the seat most of the time, but [laughter] uh but um but I I think it's it's not the story I thought that she was going to tell. I think I thought she was going to tell more of a fashion story. And um but it's the one one I'm glad she told. And um and it's one interestingly even my family never really saw and they saw all these various events throughout my career and I was going to this event and going to that. But to see the whole thing to in the form of an arc with real impact is is uh I think is important and hopefully it will inspire other people to want to use their platforms to create something bigger than the sum of the parts as as I said in the film. >> I have another question. And um one of the most dramatic moments for me having seen the film was the moment when you sort of faced backlash or controversy in response to the mental health and gun control sort of combined campaign. And what struck me about your response to that was that it was totally inspiring. You weren't defensive. You responded with humility and curiosity. And that then led you to examining mental health and that's become sort of your arguably latest and greatest cause ever. So can you talk about the importance of even someone with your level of success and your level of achievement when confronted with backlash or criticism you chose to face that with humility and courage? >> Well the the the world has changed a lot. When I was originally doing this, there was no social media and there was no real time engagement and activism and um and there was a lot of long handwritten thoughtful some less thought less thoughtful letters that were received. There were phone calls that were made and people expressed their discontent. And but I've always believed that the people that usually out have um reach out and have offer share their sometimes not so thoughtful um um disparaging points of view. Um the they tend to be the the they tend to be the negative aspect is the ones that tend to but for every one person that has a problem with what you're doing, there's 10 that don't but don't take the time to share it. So um and I think you know what started the you know what started all of this and people often ask that question is that you know in the fashion business there's essentially there's three um there's three criteria three filters that we put most decisions through. One is relevance the other is um agility and the third is profitability. So and they all have to essentially um we have to be able to check all three of those boxes. So, but if in the fashion business um what's relevant to you or what's fashionable to you today may not be to you and what's actually today may not be tomorrow. And and I came to believe very early on in my career that if I could talk about something about um about what you stand for as opposed to what you stand in and of and um what was on your mind as opposed to what was on your body, then I have a much it it'll be much more compelling way to build a more reliable ongoing endurable and um sustainable relationship. So that's what I set out to do and and then it it it [laughter] but it and it changed me and it and it changed every all my associates. It changed the man changed the brand changed the company as I said and um and I think our retention rate in our company is two or three 100% higher than almost any of our competitors because people are not they're not there just for the paycheck. they're not there just um you know to sell more shoes and uh and I think there is everybody in the company touches purpose. So we have mental health coalition exists within our corporate offices and there are separate individual who individuals who work for it. It's a 501c3. It does amazing work. You heard a little bit about it. We're going to share these cards with you if you want later on because we could use everybody's help. But um so uh and they have very clear goals that they are accountable for and and impact is very important and it's very how do you show impact in a space that typically is it's not um it's not quantifiable essentially but how and um but we have found ways to do that and maybe we'll talk about that if we have the time. Um and uh and then the business side everybody in the company somehow you know me uh purpose uh social impact is not something that exists in a corner office. It's not one person I mean everybody it it's infused into every aspect of the business and everybody somehow touches it and um and and business is infused into the social impact. So, and they they work independently, but yet they intersect and and at the end we've created something bigger, as I said, than than than it is independently. I feel like we're leaving Dory out of this conversation. >> Well, I want to I want to ask both of you, looking back at those decades of campaigns, Dory, which ones stick out to you most in terms of what you think will define his legacy? And which campaigns did you feel it was essential to include in the film to highlight? >> You know, it's it for for me it was is more frustrating what I couldn't include because there, you know, people go to don't go to three-hour movies. There was so many ads that I remember seeing in in the 90s um and beyond. um ads that I cut out, you know, that I really moved me and made me think. And so there's so many um but I, you know, I certainly remember the we all have AIDS campaign and I as I knew about it, but there was so much um that I saw in that campaign campaign that made me think really hard and understand things in a very different way. And and so of course that story was was uh so important to include and it was um just such a a a important brave uh uh campaign that um uh I think changed a lot of people's hearts and minds. So that but there are so many there's so many gun control um ads uh that I remember just being so moved by. So, um, you know, and and then of course I knew about the the fashion brand, but um and those ads were so stylish and and interesting and and set a whole new bar for fashion. But, um, but the social impact ads were life-changing. >> Kenneth, can we have an update on where you are with SOS? What are the roadblocks? What victories have been achieved? So um so robot so SOS is one of the things that we've been able to do we so the coalition we have 50 of the largest most influential um mental health service providers NOS's in the country have all joined and um what we're able to do that was unique is we brought together a coalition of tech and tech have been vilified and v and uh they've been put on the defensive from day one and is it justifiable many case many ways it is but at the end of the day there is no solution without them. There's no scalable solution without their engagement and um and we and I looked at this carefully when we set out down this road and and you look at the mission and the vision of all of the tech companies and no and it's about creating engagement and it's about building community. It's about connecting people everywhere. It's about having joy and creativity in our lives. But no one talks about how to do it in a in a in in a healthy um safe way. And no one talks about youth and it just isn't what these these all these are all very successful business people. They're engineers. They're marketing executives. They're financial executives. And they've been um they've all overindexed on what they're hired to do. And now we're holding them accountable for other things that for um for residual um impact. That's very real. Um and is it justified? Maybe it is. But at the end of the day, are they are they the ones who who in and of themselves um are implicatable? I don't know. But at the end of the day, they all want to be part of the solution. So we and they will they don't trust each other. They don't sign NDAs with each other, but they they did with us. So we're like the honest broker. So we have these agreements and we've got them all agreeing and wanting to come up with a functional solution. And um and so as you saw in the film, we have this cross functional group of experts from around the world and we're going to publish these standards. They've kind of been ready to be put out for a while, but we're waiting because we need um the we need a mechanism to hold them accountable. So we have a set of actual standards which we're going to attach to it, a rating system. We're going to they're going to get rated on how they're doing on a regular basis. And um so and at the end of the day we need to be able to in to connect with the advertisers because that's um that's ultimately the ones who are going to impact them um the most. And so all that's happening and we're looking to take this out into the world within four weeks. >> Oh my god. Wow. You heard it here first. >> [laughter] >> just to shift to the personal for a second and then we can turn it over to you guys. Um, you both have these incredible daughters who have followed in your footsteps in terms of career p pursuits and I found it very, you know, interesting that you had this departure from working with your dad when you were launching your business. What lessons do you carry with you from being the son of the boss and now you are the boss and how do you do things differently as a parent, mentor, leader? Uh because the cycle is sort of, you know, repeating but in in your own way with your daughters being so involved in your business. >> So it's hard um to say the least. Um so uh but you know you as I as everybody's heard you raising kids is hard and um you they say kids sometimes see what you say they some sometimes they hear what you say they always see what you do. So if you can lead by example, you know, Maria, my wife is also has made social impacts been always a big part of her life and her father I lost my father when I was young. The business is 40 years old. I we he passed away about 35 years ago. Um and I often get asked that question. Has he seen a lot of this? He has not he did not get to see a lot of this but but he was always very proud. But Maria's father was a mentor of mine for in in a in a very who was the the governor Cuomo um for a bunch of years and I was very we were very fortunate to have him and Maria has has built a uh homeless organization help USA which originally [snorts] founded by her brother Andrew um before he joined the Clinton administration. So and the kids have seen all that. They've been part of all that. We used to have these events at our home for a lot of the um residents of help and Joe Kabies who I saw earlier is here and Joe used to come and teach them how to dance and choreograph little things with them. So, um, and, uh, so that's always been a part of our lives and the kids have seen it and and and they're inspired by it, each in their own way. And, uh, and Emily, my oldest, is women's creative director even though she was a lawyer for seven years. And, and then, uh, the other two are very part of the a big part of the founding and the oper initial running of the mental health coalition. >> Congratulations. Okay. I know I said you guys could talk, but I'm going to ask one more question. [laughter] Uh because I'd love to hear from you, Dory. Just again, congratulations on this incredible narrative arc. Um Kenneth talked about finding strength and vulnerability and sharing more of a personal side. What did that moment mean to you as the filmmaker? >> Uh at the end of the film you're talking about. Yeah. >> Sorry. You know, I I worried while we were making the film. Um, this >> Okay. I I worried while we were making the film that uh no one was going to believe that Kenneth really existed, you know, that he was a real person because, you know, he's like a superhero. And and I and I kept saying to Kenneth, it's like, come on. there's got to be something in your life that is terrible or or you know that you're you're not good at or something, you know, help me. Um and uh and there there really wasn't. But I I kind of was a little relentless and I apologize for that. But I I pushed hard because I just felt that for everybody who is going to see this to to really important to understand what would make someone like that give. so much of their life to to others. And um uh and it was at our it wasn't going to be our last interview if I didn't get an [laughter] answer, but it was our last interview when I when I um uh when Kenneth shared um very very personal um health issue uh which I uh was honored and grateful that that he shared that with me. But I think um it for me it helped me understand a little bit more about the compassion and the uh the heart that Kenneth has that uh enables him to just give so much and be so empathetic with with everyone else. And and so I just felt you know for our film that that would be a very important moment to you know for people to go ah you know it's not there's so many reasons why Kenneth I believe does what he does so magnificently but I think that that was very important moment and um and uh Cleo Kenneth's dog um I think was not happy that I was pushing Trump [laughter] >> and uh and made a and made an entrance and and actually you don't see it happen but what happened was K Cleo jumped on the bench where I was sitting and started to lick my face which is why Ken was laughing and it was you know like don't give him such a hard time you know he was looking out for you but yeah thank you so much who has questions we have a microphone so if you could speak into the mic so everyone could hear you. It'll be to you shortly. Thank you so much. Hi. Thanks. Um, thank you so much. The film was so moving and um, thoughtprovoking. Kenneth, I wanted to ask you um about a comment that you made at the end which comes from both your analytical mind and your big heart. Um and that is that in this world we really won't know what's happening two years hence because AI is changing the world so quickly. and you said um you know we're all in our own different realities now because of algorithms and so we need the tools to connect with one another. Um and one of those tools is vulnerability. I'm I'm probably paraphrasing. Um I hope I'm not paraphrasing incorrectly, but I guess um I totally relate to that. I am in the mental health field and the dstigmatization field and I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind with your analytical mind breaking that down a little bit more for us unpacking that statement just a little bit more. What does it mean? >> So first also we we were talking about this before we were sitting outside that that part of this was shot almost three years ago. So, and you know talking about how AI was about to overwhelm everything. So, which wasn't I think it's a little bit more now front and center now in most of our lives than it was was even then. So um but I uh I do feel right now everybody is um we all are informed uniquely and we all have our own algorithms that have learned that we've selftaught sometimes for the most part not realizing it and and they respond to what we respond to and then they and then they basically take us to another place. I all, you know, I often say that I think the world would be a much better place if we all shared al if we exchanged algorithms and um and I saw how you were informed and I read how and you read how I was informed because we come at things very differently and I think I'm not sure it's ever going to be what it was and um so how does how do we realistically now go forward? um we're so polarized um and uh I think somehow we have to figure out how to get beyond that and uh we have to unless we're all starting with the same facts with the same basic sense of what's right what's wrong and and uh notion of what of social justice and we care then uh I I don't know that it changes um my daughter I remember once when she was much younger was very upset because somebody was a Republican. But and and I would would explain to her that everybody wants the same thing. We all want a better a better life for our families and for our neighbors and but we have different thoughts on how to get there. So some believe it's it's top down, some it's bottom up, but and but essentially what are the assumptions? What are the premises from which you are deriving your your um judgments that you're making of other people which are usually more often than not um should be withheld but um but these are difficult times and uh and we're all struggling right now and uh mental health I think becomes amplified need mental health needs and uh and the need for resources but we're you know we did one of these things another thing we did at the coalition as I try to make my pitch. Um, uh, same with shameless self-promotion is that we made it we made an agreement with with Meta about two years ago and they gave us about $300,000 worth of media and we ran a campaign and we reached with a camp uh and we reached 19 million people which is 68 people for every dollar spent which is unheard of typically as far as return ROI in in in uh in social media. And then of them 550,000 acknowledged for the first time their personal struggles and their willingness to access resources which is huge. So it shows that with with the allocation of resources you can change people's predisposition and willingness to address their own needs and also each others. I I have no idea what your question was or if I answered it, [laughter] >> but thank you, Louisa. >> Right over here. >> Thank you. Um, hi, good evening. Thank you for being here. Um, I work in the social impact and inclusion space at the National Basketball Association, so I very much understand a lot of the public backlash that comes with working in a very big and large public corporation or private as well. But I was just sort of wondering, you've obvious really cool honestly that you're able to incorporate a lot of your personal values into your professional life and that's something that I take to heart very much so. But in a lot of the years that you've been in this field and you've been working not only just in your business professionally but also incorporating those values and there's obviously always been backlash from people but especially nowadays especially as someone who works in corporate respon social responsibility the corporations in a lot of ways right now are the backlash and I was just wondering how you have handled that over the years or honestly just some advice for a young adult that works in that build. >> Well, I think the NBA, by the way, is doing some great work. I know Kathy Barrens. Um >> that's my boss >> who's leading the charge. Kathy used to work with the governor. >> Yeah, Kathy's my direct boss, >> right? So, and I know her from there. But um and and Kevin Love we've worked with and Doc Rivers and there's a lot of very um great role models that more so probably in basketball than in football and baseball and other some of the other sports. So, I think you're in a good place in that regard. and and say hi to Kathy for me. And um uh and I do think there is a collective willingness to want to engage here if people know how. And the well-being at work initiative is meant to address all the corporations. I I think today more people get their health care in the workplace than they do Medicaid and Medicare put together. And if you really want to make change health care at scale, you that's the first place you go. and um and you can make a a real meaningful impact. Um and I think you're going to find a lot of like-minded individuals there um who are all aligned and how do you bring insurance and how do you bring you know resources um and also with AI now is AI is changing everything. I mean young people um care um access to uh therapy has been somewhat democratized because of AI and because of all these Zoom platforms and all these abilities to do a lot of to work remotely and um and oddly young people which is a little scary today prefer are finding they prefer to speak to bots than they do to real people which in some ways democratized it in other ways is frightening, but um and uh they feel that they're less likely to be judged and um it's more confidential, which is arguably maybe just the opposite, but um but that is what we're dealing with right now. >> Gentlemen, hi. >> I can The puns are fantastic. [laughter] Do they all come from you? >> I'm afraid so. >> It's a disorder. My grand my Mario used to call me his pun-in-law. Um, but I try to I I'm much better. My filter works much better now than it used to. So, um, I withhold more than I don't. >> Susan, I have one here. >> Remarkable film, remarkable life, remarkable purpose. I want to ask you a question. I'm sure you have all kinds of places you're sending this and showing it. Have you thought about specifically doing business schools and medical schools? Because I think both would be incredible. Anyway, congratulations. >> Dory and I were talking about this, too, because I have no control over where this goes. >> That's fine. >> I have I didn't This is all Dory is full control of where So, if you don't like where this winds up, call her. >> Make sure she's aware. Um where how can we tell the story in the most effective way, in the most meaningful way? That's I'd love that. Nothing more. >> A hand up over here in the corner. >> I just to add uh we are in conversations actually with a business school uh very prestigious business school that wants to take the film and uh create a social impact curriculum that's really focused on the fusion of cause and commerce uh and and work with us on that and then make that available to business schools around the country and corporations and uh medical schools. Yeah. So I that is something we're very focused on and and agree with you. I I would love to get the film um in front of future uh leaders and uh to have people think about how just at the get-go of their career how to how to have purpose in their life. >> We can get my >> Hi, I spoke to you earlier. I'm from where you grew up as you know and um I've been following you as as the community has followed you and I just want to say that I used to look for your slogans. You were a little older than me and I used to look for your slogans. >> Am I still? >> Yes. [laughter] And you know, we talk about you in the community cuz I'm tightly knit in there still in Great Neck and I just know like we're all proud of you and I know your father Charlie would be really proud of you too. >> That's very sweet. Thank you. >> Thank you. Actually, people ask me if I grew up in Long Island. I tell them no, I intend to grow up in New York. >> Thank you very much. screen. >> Great. Now I have to remember my question, but um [laughter] thank you so much for today. Um I maybe it's a personal question for myself but I run a business in the interior design world uh in New York City and we are about eight people but um uh part of a much uh 100-year-old French family business and I am truly inspired by all the so social action obviously that you've done in your life you know and and bringing a purpose to a business but I also I think doing social action with your employees or your uh co-workers can really bring a team together and actually do better business and work together better. Do you have any suggestions on how to do that with um 20 30 year olds that want to leave at 5 459 and sort of want nothing to do with you uh or or the rest of the group because they have their own Gen Z lives and whatnot. How do we get them together? >> They have their own lives. [laughter] So, um, look, it's a good question. I I have, initially I was doing what I was doing and then I had a, um, and I had a reckoning with some associates came into my office probably, I don't know, 30 years ago, and they said, you know, we're here because we love what you do. We love what you stamp, but we don't like that you don't make available to us. And I said, 'Well, you know, I didn't think I had the right to do that, and I do it because this is what I personally believe in, and I don't want to impose it upon you. They said, 'Well, why don't you just put in place a pro procedure? Let us just be the judges of that, and we do it or we do it. So, um, we actually had a program at Emory University where I had gone on a fellowship on community building, social change. We hired one of the graduates from the from the first year of that program to come work at the company and set up a social impact proh process in the company. And in this and she would go around and and work find various ways that associates get involved. And one of the rules was I didn't want to know about it. You get no credit for it. Um and uh you're going to do it because you want to do it. At the end of the day, you're going to realize you were the biggest beneficiary and you're going to be glad you didn't. You want to do more of it. So, um, so and that's what we did. And we had, um, we had a a mentoring program with a local, uh, elementary school. And if associates signed up for it, you had to stay with that child for the year. That was the commitment. You had to make that commitment because you, these kids very often have had enough disappointment in their lives, they can't. The deal is that we have to commit that we're not going to provide be a source of more. So, but and they made the commitment so willingly and we always we invariably did not have enough there weren't enough kids for all the associates that wanted to to uh to be involved. So, I think if you make the opportunities available, people will do it and they're going to realize that the end of the day they're disproportionately impacted than than they believe they would be. >> Oh, thank you. As somebody who is a creative person who um started your own business, how do you make sure that you're not only developing your business um but also your creative aspect at the same time because both are time consuming. >> Drugs [laughter] not really. So um I uh [clears throat] you know I I over the years I have figured out different ways of funneling my creative energies and you know I was able to I was designing all the shoes at the beginning and then I as the company got bigger I needed to step back and allow other people to grow and I found and I was focusing a lot of my energies into not just the product we brought to market but how we brought it to market and h and where we brought it to market and the advertising and the messaging and the so I think that um you know that it that's a process that that you kind of work through and depending upon what you're doing where you're doing it and how do you I it's critical that you bring associates along because you can't do this alone and um you know as I said before alone you go fast together you go far so how do you you know how do you inspire and engage you know a collective that's the challenge challenge. >> I think this is our last question. This gentleman here in the blue shirt. [laughter] >> Better make it good. Make it good. I'll I'll do my best. So, me and my wife run our small business here in Westchester together for almost 20 years. And big advocates of mental health. So, thank you for for that. Um supporters of local NAMI of Westchester as well. Um, the biggest challenge I want to hear from you is how do you how do you determine when running your business when to dedicate enough time to the mental health which is obviously all also just as important to step away but at the same time you need to run your business but how do you dedicate that time to s like I encourage my wife stop go at your your heart is dragging you towards which is the mental health portion um and just is there was there a certain time in business that said I'm going to stop and dedicate more time towards this or more time towards the mental health aspect. Look, the goal is if you if you can I've always believed that if I can make social impact part of the business, then the process is very is intuitive and it's it's not complicated. And um and if if it every time we opened a store for years, there was we attached it to to an AIDS awareness narrative. And um so every important pivotal event, business event somehow had a correlation to um either it was Afar and you know when I I was asked to join the board of Afar very early on in this process in the 80s and then we as a company did all of their branding, all their marketing, all of the communications and everybody they just were fighting over who could do the afford but that was part of what we did and it was part of what they did and part and and there were people who were responsible for the business and some people were mostly were more more um targeted and directed towards some of the uh social impact work but it all mattered and it all had to get done and it all it was all very uh it was all very important. So uh and thank you for what you do as well. Thank goodness for your wife. Anybody else? That was went up too fast to ignore. I was debating. Um, first of all, Dory, thank you so much. My chair's opening. Um, as my heart has been so opened. Uh, Dory, thank you so much for bringing this all to light. And Mr. Nicole, thank you for sharing your light with all of us. Truly, >> thank you. [applause] I I can speak for myself, but I do feel that we've all been incredibly blessed tonight. Um, first question, uh, and this is a serious question, it may be funny. My mom flew in today uh and she wants to know, can we buy the shirts upstairs that say I have issues? >> They're on the website. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. This, by the way, is the this is a square peg in a round hole. >> Okay. >> Which is the logo for mental health coalition cuz we are all in some ways feel like that on occasion. And um and then we have these cards out there which are also available and which show you how you can get involved, how you can engage because we could use it. >> Beautiful. Amazing. My second question is um I was brought to such tears during the movie and I no longer apologize for my tears. They're such a part of humanity. And uh I volunteered at DD Hirs in Clover City when I uh many years ago overcame my own suicide ideiation. And so I didn't know you did this and 24 hours ago. >> Did you see the DD hiring the film? Yeah. >> Yes. And I trust the universe. 24 hours ago, I had no idea I'd be sitting in this seat and I trust the universe and I'm just blown away at what you've done. Your courage, your compassion, your commitment. I'm I'm truly I'm blown away. I'm blown away. >> Um and so, uh like wow wow your soul literally, you know, amazing. Um and my question do you know Nancy Rubin who runs [sighs and gasps] >> who runs? It was 15 years ago. Yeah. And so my question to you, I always find it so fascinating when someone comes on this planet and they serve they serve, you know, where did yours come from? Because it it wasn't at least in the documentary, it wasn't um shared about like uh what what the pivotal moment was or if there was something or were you just born as this being of light. I know this might be a little too um esoteric right now, but [laughter] I'm so blown away um just by what you've done and so thank you. Do >> you know look, I was afforded these opportunities to do this stuff along the way and and it was each time it was transformative in different ways and it was so elevating not just to me but to the business and and and it felt just right and uh I just never understood why everybody doesn't do it truthfully. and um because it made the business better. It made the associates more even more energized and more inspired and they didn't want to go home at 5:00 and uh um and uh everything felt more meaningful. So uh you know Mario used to often say you can do so much more as a private person you can as a public person. You don't have to deal with all the oversight and all the regulatory stuff that exists out there and you can really make a difference. you can make a real impact as a private person today. You can take a billboard and say anything you want and um and the more provocative the better. >> So um >> don't go quite easily either. [laughter] >> Thank you. >> Very sweet. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Yeah, we Yeah, we can >> this will be our last question. Thank you so much. >> This will be the last question before before the next class. >> I can think of thousands people who I would like to see this movie. Not medical schools necessarily in business schools but just people. Will it be or where are you with distributions streaming where >> and when? >> Uh it's a [clears throat] uh we're we've been very fortunate to have a theatrical release. Okay. >> So uh um limited theatrical release. We've been rolling the film out around the country which is very exciting. Uh we are uh uh represented by Submarine and their uh wonderful film sales. Are you now in theaters? >> Uh we are um I we have a few more theaters to go and hopefully a few more after that. Um so it um we started uh a while ago. So we're several months in. Um, we know uh we're in conversations about streaming and we hope to have something locked in soon and uh we know that we'll be on airlines uh starting in 2026 and it's fascinating because I I know so many people who watch documentaries on airplanes. So very happy about that. It's a tough time for documentaries and so we're we're very eager to get this film out to the widest possible audience. So if you happen to be know a distributor, you can let them know that this is a film they have to distribute. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Very timely. Very very very urgent, I think. But so we're we're working hard on that and we're we're we are getting a lot of interest and a lot of traction. So, you know, hopefully you'll see it all over the place. >> But thank you for that question. >> Thank you everyone. We'll look out for the cards in the lobby. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. [applause] Thank you. >> Thank you. You should build a curriculum around this. >> Yes, absolutely.