A Look at the Gear of Steve Gadd (Part 2) with Paul Wells

[music] Hello and welcome to the Drum History podcast. I am your host Bart Vandery and we are back for part D of the Steve Gad gear series with our good friend Mr. Paul Wells. Paul W. >> Hello. Thank you. Thanks Mark. Great to be here again. I appreciate it. >> Yeah. So part one was extremely wellreceived. I mean, the the the good comments, the information, um the the views, just in general, everyone uh is loving it. And I know you got some great feedback as well, which I always love to hear. >> I you know, I have gotten more feedback on this one than I think any of the other ones we've done. And it's lovely to see the enthusiasm people have for the uh the great Steve Gad. >> Yeah. which surprises me from based on the Neil series because I always Neil is very like die hard. There's so much gear. It's like it's just a gear, >> you know, a gear heads dream. It >> but Steve is is has his own section of just um you know of dieh hard fans as well. >> Absolutely. Yeah. And it was just it's nice to see how many of them and how vocal how vocally they love him basically like how much just enthusiasm there is for this guy and his I think not just his contributions but I mean this is the case with Neil too. Neil was a very special person and by all accounts a really lovely guy and that's definitely who Steve is as well and I think people just just love him and and it's it's really nice to see that. >> Really thank thank you to everybody for for reaching out for the kind comments. Um, I have gotten a lot of really great information too from from fans who have photos that I'd never seen or had done research on things that I didn't know about. So, um, I actually would love to start today by actually going back over a couple of the things that we that we did in the previous episode because a couple of new things have come to light. Thanks again to the community of people watching this. Uh so again, thank you. >> Yeah, for sure. And I think it's good to give the um you know, in case someone stumbled on this or it opened up in their feed first, you I think you you can jump in here and just kind of pick up here and then go back and watch listen part one. If you're listening, these are totally fine to listen to. We try to explain, you know, um, you know, out loud what we're looking at, but these are very much YouTube focused um, episodes. So, we kind of want to give people that nod that like, hey, there's a lot of pictures. Paul has a huge folder of pictures which he's sharing with me and then I kind of superimpose um, over the video while we talk. Um, so all that being said, I I will put a link in the description for both part one and I'll be sure to include all of the other episodes. Neil, Tony Williams, uh, everything that Paul has done on the show in the past, all 6,000 episodes, um, featuring Paul Wells, which everyone loves. All that being said, we got a lot to cover. So, Paul, yeah, go ahead and go back and then we'll move forward from there. So, um, a, uh, a drummer named, um, Maro, who I believe is based in, uh, Italy, uh, reached out to me via Instagram and sent me some screen grabs that he made of, um, Steve Gad appearing on, it's during the first the very first season of Saturday Night Live um, in 1975, I guess. Um, he I believe is appearing here with um with Paul Simon, although you don't really see him in these photos. You see Richard T on piano and I think you see Tony Leven in the background. But um these are some really great um screen grabs, some great examples of of Steve playing his Pearl/Gretch kit, the the kit with the Pearl fiberglass tomms 10, 12, 13, 14, and the 20-in Gretch bass drum, which we covered. Um but what's significant about these is that there are a couple of shots from behind the kit. Now, I don't know if you'll remember this, Bart, but um Steve was famous for using Evans hydraulic heads on this kit, but I had this theory that when he first put this kit together, he was using some sort of single ply heads. Um and that's based on um you know, just kind of uh subjectively feeling like the sound of the toms. If you listen to The Leprechaun by Chick Korea and also um Journey to Love by Stanley Clark, both of which were recorded around 75, the tom sound is different than what you hear in 7778. It's a little bit, it's still great and very meaty, but ever so slightly thinner, ever so slightly, maybe a little bit more responsive. Basically what you expect from single ply heads. And then um from research point of view I I mentioned this that there's an interview with Steve Jordan in modern drummer in 1985 and he talks about this kit and he talks about how influential Steve was to him. Steve Gad was to Steve Jordan and that Steve Jordan had kind of early on had copied some elements of Steve's kit. Um, but he talks about how Steve used hydraulics later, but he kind of implies that he liked his single ply head sound on this pearl kit a little better. Um, so that led me to think, oh, maybe he was using different heads, not the hydraulic heads early on. So, we actually now have photographic evidence of this. Thanks to Marorrow um in the form of this screen graph >> where this is Steve on SNL 1975 playing his own drums. These are not backline drums. This is Steve's special kit. And you can see on the 10 he's got a CS Black Dot. And then we can't tell what's on the 12, but it's definitely not a hydraulic head. It's some sort of clear probably single ply head. >> Mhm. And on the first floor, Tom, that is I'm pretty sure a clear head. I don't think that's a coded head. >> Yeah. >> Um >> looks like a Remo logo, I guess. Or he was Evans, maybe, but it looks like Remo. >> He wasn't an endorser of either at this time. His first endorsement was was Remo, but I don't think he was technically a Remo endorser until maybe the late 80s at the earliest. >> Got it. Cuz he used the Evans hydraulics after this. up until about 83 he was using Evans hydraulics. So >> got it >> but with Remo on the snare drum and you know so it was a mix >> but yeah so this shows that kit at least you know and this is 1975 in fact I think I have a date I think Maro >> the name of the file is 75 1975 SNL yeah he tells me though he cuz he did the screen grab um October 18th 1975 it's apparently the second ever episode of SNL >> Wow. Wow. Um, >> you know, this isn't isn't really related, but I just watched a docu. It was like a movie >> about the first airing like the night leading up to Essen. It was like I think it was called like it's Saturday night or something. >> It was really good. But it showed the band and the performance and getting the stage set up. And it's interesting to think the next week, >> you know, after the first week Gad was there and boom, this is it. >> That's right. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So, we also get a nice view of some symbols. the the symbol, his main ride is is obviously an old K of some sort. I don't want to get too deep into this yet because we're going to talk about symbols later in the episode, but it it's a it's a great photo. Um, and it's amazing to see those those drum heads and >> these are the Pearl toms with with uh Gretch 20-in bass drum and then a a Lewig superonic snare. Um, so yeah, this is the classic kit that he used from around 74,75 until he started using Yamaha regularly. Uh, around 79 is when you see I mean there are photos of him earlier in Japan using Yamaha, but I think he got a kit, you know, in the States certainly by 79. Um, so this was the kit kind of I mean it's funny because it's really a short amount of time that he had this Pearl Gretch hybrid kit, but it's a very significant part of time. This is this is a period of time when Steve really blew up and became very wellknown and very influential. So it's it's a very important kit and as we've discussed before this is the first kit other than you know Rick Marado was experimenting with these sort of sizes but this is this is the kit that really put the 10 and 12 setup on the map as sort of a standardized setup. It's also the kit where mounted floor toms became a thing, you know, because that, you know, that did not exist, you know, really before that. And unless you're talking about like, you know, 1920s, 1930s, you sometimes see >> a a little tom and a big tom mounted on the side of a bass drum. But mounted floor toms as we know them today. This is the kit. Steve Yad is the man. >> Wow. who who invented that basically >> to this day it's [snorts] used to this day popularly. >> Absolutely. Yeah. So so that's pretty amazing. I wanted to talk a little bit more about the uh recording custom kits to as well. And we made this distinction um again everybody should watch the uh the episode one to know kind of in detail what we're talking about but that there were two recording custom kits that Steve had in New York. And you sometimes see him, you know, in Japan playing a different kit or on the West Coast or doing a clinic somewhere, he might be playing a different kit. But if he's in New York from about 79 onward, there are two recording custom kits that you see him using. And kit number one is distinctive in that it's it's the one that we see with the shorter 10-in tom. It's the one that has I'll I'll call up a picture here. Um, we call it recording custom kit number one. This is the classic photo of Steve playing recording custom kit number one. >> Now, this this kit has most distinctively is um a kit with a 6 1/2x 10 in rack tom. And in order to facilitate that size, they used snare drum lugs on that tom. And [snorts] you see some other endorsers. Jerry Marota had a kit. Sorry, Jerry Marada had a kit that also had, you know, similar lugs on the Rackto. I believe Charlie Drayton had a kit that had lugs like that, but I think it's not something I don't think you see those. Um, you definitely don't see them in cataloges and you don't, you know, I don't know if you really would find them on a consumer kit. I think maybe these are things that were either custom made for artists or um were just kind of experimental at the time. But anyway, this is kit number number one. And um I found some further evidence that um tells us what the tom sizes might have been. Now I had speculated that the first sorry the the the floor tom sizes I should say. I had speculi speculated that the first floor tom was a 12 by 15. And this is based on um looking endlessly at Yamaha cataloges from the 80s and looking at recording custom toms and getting an idea of what lugs they used and how. So they they had a few different versions of these what they call high tension lugs which are the one piece lugs and you know basically like the lug would have to be a little bit incrementally longer for each >> y >> tom size where the depth gets longer, right? And the tension rod could be longer and shorter. >> Well, see that? Right. So, they didn't have a lug for each size. They didn't have a lug that fit a 12, a an 8x12. Yeah. >> They didn't have a lug that fit a 9 by13, a separate one. They would use the same lug on the 8x12 and the 9 by13, but the 9 in deep drum would have longer tension rods in order to facilitate that. So, >> that's how we can kind of get a sense of what sizes these drums are. Um, so I thought that was a 12x5 and then probably a 14 by6 floor tom and that's based on there's another photo uh where you can see that floor tom really well. Here we go. This is at 1987 Modern Drummer Drum Festival. And you can see that that tension the the um the lug >> the t the the lug is very long and then the tension rod is very short. And you see that if you go to the Yamaha catalog, this is this is a a >> a recording custom kit and this is a 91 catalog. same sort of lug spacing and tension rod spacing where you have a long lug with short tension rod >> short little amount of tension rod. >> So Maro, our buddy Marorrow [clears throat] also sent me this interview with Steve in an Italian magazine. Now this is all in Italian, but when you translate it, this section here, this is this is uh 1988 Italian 2 is the name of the photo. Um he he's basically talking about um when they filmed One Trick Pony in 1979. Um Steve, this is this is one of the first times that you see the recording custom kit number one is in One Trick Pony. >> Um and I have a photo from Yeah. Well, actually I think it might have been 1980, not 81. >> Gotcha. Um, this is This is Steve in that film, which is a fun film. Everybody should watch it if you're a Steve Gad fan or a Paul Simon fan. So, he lists the sizes that he used in the kit for One Trick Pony down at the bottom, and he lists 10, 12, 15, 16, and a 22in bass drum. >> H. >> So, that kind of confirms what I thought about what those sizes were of those floor toms. Um, so another interesting development that I've learned um about these kits that um a couple different drummers pointed out to me was that um when we talk about kit well all right so another photo surfaced of what we call recording custom kit number two and this is the one that I discussed that I think has a longer 12 I think it's a 9x by 12. But one thing that some people pointed out to me was that the floor toms are very interesting because the badges are mounted much higher than you would normally see on recording custom >> uh toms basically that usually the the the the badges are roughly in the center of the drum. But on this kid, and I have a screen grab from a video 1989 at the bottom, 1988 at the bottom line, he's playing with the Gad Gang where you can see how high up on the drum these uh the badges were. Now, one person had thought that um had noticed that uh when Yamaha in the early late '7s and early 80s were still making concert toms, you could buy recording custom concert toms. And the recording custom concert toms actually had the badges mounted kind of high like that. And somebody had thought maybe they modified some concert toms >> in order to make these because they didn't have those sizes, you know, big floor tom sizes in double-headed toms at that time. >> I don't know. >> There's no there's no shell construction difference. It would just be they just didn't drill bottom, >> right? >> You know, they didn't drill holes for the bottom lug, >> but they use different lugs. They use different lugs. So, I don't really know. It's that it's sort of a mystery, but but it is an interesting distinction that Steve's kit, recording custom kit number two, has very highmounted floor tom badges. And um I also did a little bit more poking into the sizes and I was unsure when we talked about this last time as to whether that was a 14 and a 15 or a 15 and a 16 or maybe a 14 and a 16. So, in in looking into that, I also took a close look. So, there's a there's a um these are obviously very deep toms. These are not sort of standard power sizes. >> Um they may actually be square sizes. Uh and Yamaha offered very briefly in Japan only in 1984, they offered what they called turbo sizes, which were basically squareiz toms. >> I remember. I remember those ads. >> Yeah. Yeah. And they they there's a there's a Japanese catalog from 1984 that show, you know, that have like all of these different sort of turboized toms listed. >> And if you look at this kit, I believe this is in cherry wood, >> which was eventually wckles finish. This is a kit and it's listed in the catalog with um I guess seven toms uh 8 10 12 13 14 all mounted and then a 15 and a 16 mounted floor tom. So, I compared this kit and particularly that that 14, which is the largest of the sort of upper toms, with Steve's tom here. This is virtually identical to me >> because you have the very long lugs and very short tension rods. And you have the same thing here on the 1984 Cherry Wood tom. very long um lugs and very short tension rods. And if you look at these two floor toms, the 15 and the 16 in this kit, you can actually see that it's the same size tension, sorry, the same size lug, only the tension rods get incrementally longer with each >> tom spacing. Yep. >> Exactly. So then if we go back to this photo, man, this is so deep in the in the in the weeds. If we go back to this photo from the bottom line, you see that his biggest floor tom here has very long tension rods. >> Yep. >> Which I think matches with the 16 on this cherry wood kit. So that leads me to believe again Gad may have had a 14, a 15, and a 16 and maybe interchange them. >> Yeah. But I think that in these photos, you're seeing a 14 and a 16 square sized floor toms in recording custom kit number two. Now, yeah, >> another theory that has been proposed to me and is actually I I'm not going to mention who it was because I think they want to remain private about this, but a a couple of very very well-known drummers are very very big Steve Gad fans. And it actually reached out to me after this podcast, which was really um an honor to me that to to hear from these guys because I'm a big fan. >> Yes. Um, and they actually they're friends and these two drummers and they actually have this theory that this deeper second racktom they think might actually be a 9 by13 and that Gad may have used an 8x10 as his first racktom with this kit only and then a 9 by13 as the second racktom. Now I love and respect these guys. Personally, I disagree with this because I don't I still think that looks >> I don't I I feel like a 9 by13 again has a sort of specific look to it. And I don't know if I have any Let me see if I have any um No, these are all power toms, aren't they? I mean, you can look easily at, you know, any number of Yamaha cataloges that have Now, we're not talking about the current um >> the 80s or the >> the current No. Well, no. Yeah. '8s '8s uh recording customs, ' 80s or '9s. >> Um, you know, not the current version, which the lugs are a bit different on those. Um, but the space I mean this is so this on the on the far left here is a black 9 by13 tom and I don't know it just they don't quite look the same. I mean obviously the depth is the same because you see the same lug and you see the same length of tension rods but I also just see a little bit more space between the hoops here. >> Yeah, I would agree. >> I don't know. I I think it is possible. It is possible, but Steve has always, whatever the floor tom sizes are, he's always talked about his rack toms being an eight, a 10, and a 12. >> Not ever. He's I've never seen him mention >> or list a a 10 and a 13 as his racktoms. So, >> which to Yeah, him him mentioning it cuz he knows his stuff and he knows what what he's had. But um >> yeah, I don't think he knows details like the depth of the, you know, the the two floor mounted floor toms or something, you know, things like that. He doesn't get as as into the weeds as that. But there are things that he is very specific about >> and I think that the 10 and 12 as his racktoms in that era is is one of them. So um >> but it's possible. It is it is it is possible and I like that theory. I think it's very interesting. Um, and it and it is possible. >> This episode is brought to you by GM Designs symbols. GM Designs is redefining what symbols can be. They believe percussion should be personal, expressive, and inspiring. A true extension of the player behind it. Every symbol GM Designs makes is handcrafted with purpose, blending traditional artistry with bold, modern ideas to create sounds that are truly one of a kind. They're not your average symbol company. They're a movement for drummers who love exploring sound. GMDs is here to help you expand your creativity, discover new textures, and make your voice heard. Explore more at gmdsymbols.com or find them on reverb and symbol swap. No, speaking of the the floor toms, it if you look at kit number one also that has the same sort of phenomenon where the uh the floor tom the badges on the on the mounted floor toms are high on the drum and you just don't find that. I don't think that's the case with any I mean if I look at you know I mean I'm looking at a Yamaha catalog. It's a little hard to see cuz you don't usually see the badges, but in Yamaha cataloges, even from the late '7s, the badges, I think, are always Yeah, they're always centered on the drum, as far as I could tell. Again, this is something for like there are people that know so much about vintage Yamaha drums. Um, and they may know better, but um, I was told that it was floor tom uh, uh, sorry, concert toms were the only toms that Yamaha made that had those sort of badges up higher. Hence the theory that his floor his mounted floor toms might have somehow started their lives as concert tom shells where they might have put a badge on >> before they put the lugs on. But anyway, just a theory. Maybe a Yamaha expert can comment and say, I bet they could look at that and go, "Oh, no, that is um you know, those are 79 to, you know, January to July. [snorts] They had them up there and then they lowered them down or something." So, comment if you know. >> Yes, please. Please. I mean, it's great having having people comment on this stuff. >> Yeah. >> Um, another interesting recording custom. I don't think I showed this picture last time. Um, but this is a photo from the 80s, I believe, from a tour in Japan where he is using, and I don't know if this was just like a a kit that he used as sort of a supplement or if he used this for the whole gig, but this is sort of like a little Bbop version of his setup. >> Yeah. >> Um, it's got his So, the GG on the bass drum head is for the Gad Gang. That was the logo that the GAD gang originally used. >> Um, but this is a 10-in rack tom, a single 10x14 uh, mounted floor tom, and then an 18-in bass drum, which we since, you know, he stopped using that Gretch Bbop kit in the early '7s, I'm pretty sure this is the only time I've seen him use an 18-in bass drum. >> Yeah. >> Now he's uses uses a 20 sometimes lately. Uh but yeah, this is an 18 with no uh with a with a full front head, no hole in the front head. >> Um you know, >> it's interesting how it is like super high, you know, tom on the uh arm coming out of the bass drum, the floor tom is mount. It's It looks so naked. >> It's an interesting layout. It almost looks like one of those um Lwig breakbeat kits or something where things are like little bass drum, super high tom, one of those, you know. Well, he sits he he's always set up, you know, in the 70s he was a little bit higher on the kit and the drums were a little bit lower, but gradually he's sort of over the years he sat lower and lower and the drums have kind of gotten a little bit higher and sort of, you know, you see a lot of drummers set up like this and it's very comfortable for them where they're low and the drums are kind of high and kind of like almost facing them so that the drums are sort of like, you know, they're they're doing their operations like here as opposed to like being over the drums and having things lower. You know, if you look at Antonio Sanchez, he tends to sit high and have everything very sort of below him and that's what's comfortable for him. Gad sits low and has everything sort of above and almost in his face. So this I think what you're seeing is is is some of that. I saw Antonio Sanchez at Pacik around the time it was like not super far after Birdman came out and he performed some of that stuff and boy that was incredible. Total side note, but seeing Antonio Sanchez just >> I saw him here in Brooklyn um a couple summers ago for Celebrate Brooklyn. He did the entire Birdman film. He played along. It was just him, a drum set and a and a screen and he played along. He did the live soundtrack thing but on drum set and it was absolutely mind-blowing. He's he's such an amazing drummer and he's doing this is a total side note. He's he's he's he does the music for the uh Apple TV show called the studio which is a couple episodes. Very good. >> That's all his drumming. That's all him improvising along with, you know, like just >> playing. Yeah. does. And I believe um there's a great podcast interview with him with um oh, what's the guy's name? Um Elmo Leavano. >> Do you know this guy? Has a great podcast. Um he did a a really great interview, long interview with Wckle. Did a long interview with Antonio and he talks a lot about the studio and how he how he >> he's apparently does all of that in his home studio. Antonio does. So >> very cool. >> Great stuff. Yeah, heavyweight guy. Anyway, side note, I love it. Sure, he was influenced by Gad to tie this to make this relevant whatsoever. >> I mean, it's hard to find people that aren't really, you know. Um >> uh so before we move on sort of getting into where we left off, I wanted to talk about some uh backline kits >> um that Steve has used. And and it's largely because I think people sometimes get confused and they hear recordings and think that Steve is using his own drums, but there's some well doumented um examples where he is uh not using his own drums. Um, and I I actually have I have props with me. I I I got my first subscription for I guess I don't know which birthday it would have been, but the first issue I got in the mail was March 1986. >> Okay. >> Uh, which was Jerry Marada on the cover. >> Nice. Um, and but I I then started buying a lot of back issues. And I remember sending away for a back issue of July 1983 with uh Steve on the cover. This is my original. I've had this since I think I got it in 1986. Wow. You see, it's pretty beat up. >> It's my original copy. Yeah. >> Um, great interview with Steve and he So, I am a really big fan of um, one of the first producers that started hiring Steve for a lot of recording sessions. And this is around 7273 was uh Creed Taylor who was a jazz producer and had the label CTI which was Creed Taylor Incorporated I guess or I think maybe it might have been Creed Taylor International. I'm not sure but CTI Records was a famous sort of crossover jazz sort of funk label. made a lot of really great recordings and um Steve is on I don't know a lot of CTI records. They were all done um mostly in the early days they were all done at Rudy Vanelder studio which is the famous studio where almost all of the Bluenote records were made the great impulse records like Cold Trains records uh Love Supreme and things like that all made at um Riv Van Gelders. Um, and I think we talked a little bit about Van Gelders when we did the Tony Williams episode because Tony recorded uh a lot of records at at Van Gelders. >> So, um, in this interview, Rick Mattingley asks Steve um um I've heard they're talking about your sound, about your personal sound as a drummer. Um, Rick says, "I've heard drummers complain and say,"Yeah, but if I do whatever the engineer wants, how will I ever get known for my sound?" And then Steve says, this is Steve speaking, his response, "I never tried to get known for my sound. I've never tried to do that. I don't really have a sound." Huh. Which is, of course, we Yes, [laughter] he does. But he says, "I don't really have a sound. I mean, a lot of the CTI dates I played on Rudy Vanelder's Gretch drums. So, that's Steve confirming that on a lot of the CTI dates, he's playing uh Rudy's house kit. Now, Rudy's kit, I've done a lot of research into this as well, separate from Steve Gad. Uh, in 1966, um, this is from looking at session photos from the Blueote catalog. Around 66, you start to see a Blue Sparkle Gretch kit 12 14 20 with a matching snare. Um, that pops up in tons of session photos. Mickey Roker always used this kit. I've heard some people say that it was actually Mickey Roker's kit that he left there or he sold to Van Gelder or something. Um, Mickey use this kit. Uh, Billy Higgins uses kit. Freddy Weights is pictured using this kit. A lot of drummers use this kit. at Van Gelers and it continues to be used. That kit, the Blue Sparkle kit 121420 is still at that studio and people still use it to this day. Um, from what I can tell, Elvin always brought his own drums in that era from like ' 67 on. >> Uh, Art Blakey always brought his own drums, although Art never recorded there after 64 or ' 65 or so. Anyway, that's another story. That's another podcast part. Um, but [snorts] these are almost certainly the drums that Steve used. And by the time they're doing the CTI dates, you can tell the toms are a little bit muffled. You can tell they have the front head off of the bass drum. In fact, to this day, that kit, I think, doesn't have a front head on it. I think they took the the front head off in the early '7s to get that >> sound that Ringo pioneered >> um, and never really stayed off. I think they probably lost the the hoop and just never put the stuff back on. >> I always I wonder if that affects the roundness or the >> I think it definitely could >> after after 50 years. I mean, it's kind of like if you have strings off of a guitar for too long, the b the neck gets gets out of whack. I wonder if that >> I think that's entirely possible. Yeah, but that that um so anyway, those are the drums that Steve is using. Um, I mean, if you listen to, um, Joe Frell, Penny Arcade, um, uh, Hubert Law in the beginning, um, the early, uh, uh, Bob James one, um, is an amazing record. Steve is on all of these. >> Um, you listen to those records. I mean, he's he plays, you should listen to those records because he plays so brilliantly. These are some of my favorite recordings of Steve Gat, especially that Hubert Law record. It's incredible. But you hear only a four piece kit. You hear two toms, that's it. Um, and you listen closely. I think they sound like wretch drums. They have that sort of twanginess even though you can tell they're kind of muffled, which was the sound of the day. >> All right. So, for more backline, um, there there are various photos like this modern drummer. I think I showed you this before, October 78. Steve's first modern drummer cover story. All of the photos here are taken at some sessions. The uh the the Aaron Wald is uh the guy who did the article and he also took the photos. Um and he says um I cornered Steve during a series of recording sessions for a Japanese keyboardist who specified Steve Gad on all contract sheets. I sat through two or three sessions taking photos when I could, trying my utmost to be unobtrusive. So, these photos were taken by Aaron Wald at some of these sessions. This is a great one. This is Steve. This is actually at Power Station. And this is Steve. Did I show you this at the last? >> Yeah, we saw that last time, but yeah. >> Yeah. So, that's a that's obviously a backline kit. Steve Symbol, Steve Snare most likely, but that's just a a house kit at the studio. And this happened a lot. Yeah. So, this happened a lot. And what's significant about this is when you start to think about what probably maybe Steve's I'd say Steve's most famous recordings, Steve most famous performances are probably Paul Simon, 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover. Yeah. But the other one most famous is probably Steelely Dan Asia which is you know to me one of the greatest drum recordings of all time. I mean it's just a miracle this this recording beginning to end. Everything he plays is so beautiful and so perfect while still being extremely expressive and soulful and >> and it features these two sort of drum solos where he's playing over this sort of these rhythmic figures. I'm sure most everybody who's watching this is probably familiar. Very familiar. If you're not somehow, please go stop this podcast and go find a recording of Steely Dan Asia. AJ AA is how it's spelled. Oh my god. You your life will be that much better. >> Your life begins today after listening to Asia. I have seen and heard so many people speculating about what kit Steve is using, what drums Steve is using on this recording and a number of people assume that he was using his own drums and Steve definitely so Asia was recorded the track was recorded in Los Angeles um and uh what was the studio the producers workshop shop was the name of the studio. It was um was on Sunset Boulevard and um Steve definitely brought his own drums to LA to record at times. He's on record as saying that. And if you remember last time we have some photos of the Chick Korea recording session that produced both the Madhatter and Friends 1977. And Steve definitely has his own drums on those recordings. Those were both recorded in LA, actually in Burbank. So, he had his drums there at times. He flew them over, but um I have always been sure that Steve is not using his own drums on Asia. And there are two things to listen for that I think prove this. Um, besides the anecdotal evidence that I'm about to get to, but if we're just talking about using your ears and especially if you listen to Asia, good quality recording or stream of Asia with headphones where your your AirPods or whatever, just like highquality headphones of some sort. You'll notice a couple of things that I think make it impossible that this is Steve's own kit. The first thing is that throughout the track and Steve is playing a lot of stuff in those solos. But if you really analyze it and you figure out what he's playing, you're only hearing three tomtoms. You do not hear four tomtoms. It is three tomtoms. And it is two rack toms and one single floor tom. When Steve has his own drums and he has an opportunity to play a solo, I have noticed I would say 85% of the time at some point in the solo he is going to use all four tomtoms. He usually, you know, I'd say like the 10 and the 14 get the most workout and then the 12 and then the last the biggest floor tom kind of gets the least action, but >> he almost always is hitting all four of those drums if you listen if he has it. Yeah, there's a short a couple short solos on Chick Korea Night Sprite. We know he has his own drums uh recording the leprechaun that album and all four drums are used in both of those short solos. >> Um but you only hear three toms. The other bit of evidence is that in the bridge, I guess he'd call it the bridge of Asia, there's a part like it starts very delicately and he's playing some grooves on the high hat, rim clicks, and then high hat and open snare. And then it goes to this sort of middle instrumental section where he plays this groove where he plays a halftime backbeat on a tom. [clears throat] You listen to that and listen for the pitch of that tom. That tom is tuned quite low. It's tuned very very low and it's a pitch that I re I mean his fiberglass kit had a very wide tuning range but you could not get a 10 to sound like that. And the reason that I know then maybe somebody would say well maybe he's playing that backbeat on the floor Tom. That's why we're listening with headphones because if you listen with headphones, the drums are everything is close miked and the stereo spread is the natural spread of you know what you'd hear. I can't remember if it's drummer's perspective or audience perspective. >> I was going to say the and to explain that the flip of it is if you're looking at it from it where you're snare's on your left, floor's on your right, drummer perspective, you're looking at it, flip it. >> So snare's on the other The way >> the easy way to tell is listen for the high hat. And if you hear the high hat coming from your left >> headphone perspective, >> then it's drummer's perspective. If you hear the high hat coming from the right, then it's audience perspective >> cuz you're looking >> when you hear that tom backbeat, it's in the same ear that you hear the high hat. >> Okay? >> So that tom that he's hitting on that backbeat is the first rack tom. And that means that that tom has to be bigger than a it's a it's at least a 12, if not a 13. >> Those those three toms that you hear are tuned very very low. And they do not sound anything like his pearl fiberglass toms that he was using at that time. Nor do they sound like the Yamaha recording customs that he would use shortly after. They just don't. They sound very different. So I listening to it had always theorized that that was the case that he was using some studio drums. And I think that Steelely Dan, you know, they would often record tunes with multiple drummers. They tried different drummers on different tunes and I think they would often have guys all playing the same kit. They would just have a kit that was there at the studio a lot of the time and >> you know different people would play it. Now an interesting thing has happened where um and this is where you know one of the reasons that we actually kind of like the internet is you have people now of course there are a lot of crackpots who like to go on the internet and lie right but >> I have no reason to necessarily believe that this guy's lying a a guy named Scott Moyer M O Y who I've never heard of and I don't really see anything else about him but Scott Moyer has commented a couple of times on um so he has commented on an article that you can find I believe it's mix magazine it's one of the audio >> you know like like audio engineer magazine >> um there's an online article about the making of Asia >> and then there's also um a video of the making of Asia uh on YouTube a documentary that features um Donald Fagan and Walter Becker and Scott Moyer also commented. I believe it was on that video on YouTube basically saying the same thing. And what he says is Scott, this is Scott Moyer talking. For a brief 3 months in the spring of 1977, I worked at SIR. SIR stands for studio instrument Reynolds. There's there's an SIR in LA. There's an SIR in New York and uh an SIR in Nashville. >> Okay. Um, they provide instruments for gigs, for drummers, basically back backline for any instrument. You know, you come into town, you need some drums, SIR will bring you drums. They have a warehouse full of >> huge backline. >> Yeah. So, he says, I worked at SIR in Hollywood and was the head of the drum department there. I delivered the red sparkle Lwig set to the Steely Dan Asia session and had the opportunity to hang out at length with Gad while we set up in preparation for the take at the producers workshop located at the crossroads of the world on Sunset Boulevard. Um, so yeah, he says, "FYI, the drum set Gad used on Asia was a Red Sparkle Lwig set with a basic Lewig bass drum pedal. Steve used his own 21-inch rock ride. This is interesting. And two cracked crash symbols, which he preferred for their sound and quick uh dying effect. Um, okay. Now, this is the comment he left on the making of Asia video. This is the YouTube video I talked about. Um, for those of you who are curious about Steve Gad's drum sounds on Asia, I can help. His drum set was a red sparkle Lewig set rented from SIR. The three toms had clear heads with black dots on them. He had two mounted toms, a 12 and a 14, plus a 16inch floor tom. Uh the the snare drum, oh, he had a basic $15 Lewig bass drum pedal. I'm not quite sure what that means. >> Maybe a speed king. The snare was a Lewig Chrome 5 1.5x4. That would actually be a 5x14. I'm sure he's talking about Gad Superic. symbols were Ziljen, a 21-inch rock ride, and 14-inch high hats with two crash symbols. Unsure of their size, but they're no longer no larger than an 18 and no less than a 16, which were both cracked for a fast decay, which Steve preferred. [snorts] Um, yeah, he goes on a little bit. Um, the drums were not tuned at all, but simply played as is. I delivered the drums for this session and already tuned the drums before I left SIR that day. Gad brought his own symbols and especially loved his 21-in rock ride. Um, so this is these are these are different, you know, these are two different accounts that he has talked about with this kit. >> Uh, sounds like he's knowledgeable and there's no reason to really make that up. >> It's it's sort of like oddly specific and also oddly like it sounds like he has a good memory but is also kind of recalling 40 50 years ago, you know? I think these comments were left years ago, like maybe 10 years ago. So, you know, this is maybe 40 rather than 50 years of memory, but still it sounds like the kind of thing that somebody might remember. And to me, soundwise, it really adds up that this could be a Lwood kit, which would have a darker sound. Um, he doesn't mention single heads necessarily, but he mentions three toms had clear heads with black dots, which would be a bit of a muffled sound. There was probably tape on them, but this to me adds up with what I hear 100%. Um, now we're going to talk about symbols later, but I do want to address the rock ride thing because our buddy John de Christopher had commented um there was a thread about this on drum forum about the [snorts] Asia recording session about these comments that this guy Scott Moyer had left. And um uh Johnny D kind of didn't agree with this. He said, "I don't know about the symbols. I can't imagine Steve ever using a 21-in rock ride, let alone on that song. So, I'm going to have to disagree with with John. Um I love you, John. But I have some evidence to >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> Um banned from the drum industry forever. I I am now done. So, um, I have some evidence to to to to retort that because, um, Downbeat magazine, uh, December 2nd, 1976 interview with our our friend Steve Gad. So, Steve is talking about his symbols in this interview. I use two zilans, K and A off of this. I've got a K crash, a K ride, and a K high hat. This is where it gets interesting. I recently purchased the A. The bell is bigger on the A, which is why I bought it. I would use the K for a jazz job. They don't blunt blend in with too many instruments, but the A has a higher pitch and blends well. It's also better for recording. It's clearer. The A is too clean. The K has that garbage can cover effect when you play time on them. The bell on the A is more effective, though. So here he is talking about having his K's but also having recently bought. He says that right? I recently purchased the A. This is December of 76. Now Asia is recorded in the spring of 77. >> Okay. >> I recently purchased the A. The bell is bigger on the A. Now which A in 1976 has a big bell? The rock ride and um I believe the Ping ride may have been around at that time. They both feature the larger size bell. >> Sure. >> So, [snorts] um, another, if we go back to this October 78 interview in Modern Drummer, he also discusses his symbols and basically says the same thing. Aaron Wall asks, "What about symbols?" Steve says, "I use a combination of K and a Ziljen, one ride and one crash. I have a high pitch A with a big bell that blends very well. It's good for recording, very clean. I vary my symbol depend I vary my symbols depending on the date. It's a matter of what the tune is supposed to sound like and what the style of music is. Uh what the style of the artist that I'm playing for. For an R&B date, I'd probably use both. Meaning I think what he means by that is he would use both an A and a K or some combination. >> Sure. So this is two interviews right around the time period of Asia where Steve talks about having a an A with a large bell. >> And further evidence um the 1976 concert of uh Stuff in um at at the Montro Jazz Festival. And this is another example. Actually, this video is amazing. Steve playing with the band stuff. This is another great video where you see Steve using backline drums assuming it's you know it would be difficult on a on a stuff was a popular band but they were essentially you know not a jazz band per se but they were sort of playing this jazz festival circuit apparently this summer might have been hard to bring a full drum set >> for this tour and that he would use backline but this is him but here he's got his own symbols I'm not sure about the snare cuz that's actually in this video he's playing a six and a half super far, which I'd never seen him play elsewhere. >> Um, and it has a Lwig silver dot head on it, which would is also a head that you wouldn't see Steve using on the snare, but you definitely are seeing his symbols. You see his classic high hat. You see a cracked crash symbol. The main ride is an old K. And then on his far right, look at this. >> It's a big bell. >> Big. It's a big bell on a big very, very shiny looking like a brand new A. Yeah. >> Now, that symbol has a pretty high profile, too, which looks a lot like a rock ride. I'm pretty sure rock rides were 21 in high profile, high bell, relatively thick symbol. >> And I don't think they were stamped boom, name of the symbol right on top of that. >> No, they they have a trademark stamp on them. But you're right, it wasn't until later that you see black ink. >> Yeah. That big bladder videos where it's like it push pushes [snorts] down the the logo, which to >> Yeah. to his credit would be like you'd say it's an A with a big bell you wouldn't he if it doesn't clearly say rock ride medium ride whatever ping ride then it's >> I think I think they might have had a model stamp on them at some point in in that era they might have said rock ride maybe kind of light you know a light >> yeah there's an episode that >> oh good yeah I can watch that episode >> dating your ziljans >> yeah yeah you mean like taking them out for lunch maybe for lunch maybe dinner. >> Yes. >> Sorry. So that's yeah that's basically it what I want to say about the backline stuff but I think it's interesting evidence uh towards you know what Scott Moyer says about the drums and symbols used for Asia. Again my ear tells me that I'm hearing three toms. I'm hearing bigger drums than what Steve was famous for using at that time. Uh, and I'm also, you know, I I hear as far as the ride, I hear a kind of dry but also kind of bright ride symbol. If you listen to Asia, you know, he's crashing on it a fair amount. And, you know, the the rock ride would have been pretty heavy and a little difficult to crash. when you hear him crashing the ride, it's a little more clunky than you hear and it's not as dark as you hear around that era when he is probably using his K's. Like again, if you listen to Chick Korea, Mad Hatter or Friends, which recorded also in 1977, but where we know he has his own toms, his own kit. >> Um, I'm assuming that's the case. Um, again, I'm sorry to get on to the symbols because we have to talk there's drum stuff we have to talk about before we go in depth on the symbols. But >> it's all this is what they say. >> Yeah. Right. It's all good. So, all right, getting back to the drums. So, we talked about the last kit we talked about was the 1991 Paul Simon tour. um which was the last sort of harrah of Steve using recording customs until we get to the relaunch um that happened more recently. But a new photo has surfaced. Um well, it hasn't surfaced, but I found this this photo recently of Paul Simon again in 1991 in Central Park. And you have a nice sort of straight on view of Steve here playing his his kit. Um and there are some interesting things. Now, I had assumed that this was I wasn't sure basically if this was a new kit or if this was, you know, a kit that was made new for the Paul Simon tour or if Steve was sort of recycling one of his older kits. And I had um originally thought that this was maybe a new kit. And Steve's uh one of Steve's drum techs who I spoke to, Tony Formosa, who was a wealth of information, told me he thought that this was also a new kit. However, looking at this photo and some other photos, as well as some things that were brought up to me by some of our listeners, um I think this is actually recording custom kit number two. And the reason is, um, one thing, this is something I didn't know at all, but if you look inside of the 12, you see that there are three screws holding on the lugs. You see that there are screws. So you can see inside on the inside of the shellar metal obviously. >> Yeah. Apparently early recording custom lugs had three >> screws that held them onto the shell and slightly later certainly by 91 they only have two. So this apparently is a way one of the ways to date how you know what era a recording custom drum is from is by how many lug screws there are. Perfect picture for that. >> Yeah, exactly. Now, we also look at these floor toms. Not only do we see some pretty deep floor toms, mounted floor toms, but we see they have the badges up near the top. >> Yep. >> Which is a distinctive, you know, that's something that we only see in those two early kits. Um, recording custom kit number one and number two both had their badges up near the tops, close to the top rim. So, that's pretty interesting, too. Now, I mentioned that there was this 18-inch floor tom that he added that likely I mean it's possible that they sent Steve every size of recording custom drum available when he first started using them in the late '7s. >> Um, >> and he just picked and choosed. >> Yeah. But but this also could be, you know, he decided he wanted a big floor tom on his left and they sent him one at that time in 1990 or 91 or whenever. So, um, that's, you know, to me, this is this is probably proof that this is actually recording custom kit number number two, as we call it. Um, yeah. So, just some some extra evidence. Basically, after that, after 91, now the Yamaha released the Maple Custom line. I believe they were announced in also in ' 91. And let me see if I actually have evidence about that. I mean, I remember when they came out. I remember going to a modern drummer drum festival, the ' 91 drum festival, and um picking up a Yamaha catalog from ' 91 that had the Maple Customs in them. >> Um the first time that I have seen Steve using Maple Customs is a Chick Korea tour in 1992. And this is an interesting I there are a couple photos I have of him. But the playing this kit, the best place to see this kit though, and again, I don't know whether this was Steve's personal kit or whether this was something that Yamaha in Europe provided for the tour, but these are Maple Customs uh 10 and 12 rack tom 14 and 16 floor toms. This is when he kind of finally solidifies his sizes for a while. You don't really see the diff. You You basically see him with a 14 and 16. >> Yeah. >> For eternity beyond this. >> Looks like a stain though, like a black stain or something as opposed to >> They initially only offered Yeah. So, there are no wraps in the the Maple Custom line ever. I don't think anybody's ever had a wrapped Maple Custom kit. Maybe somebody had a one-off, but um they didn't make a solid black lacquer initially. They only had the only black finish they had was this sort of black wood stained finish, which is really beautiful. >> Um there's another I have a few good photos of this kit, but the best place to see this, there are a couple of really amazing videos of Chick Korea 92. It's usually listed as Chick Korean friends and it's uh Bob Berg, Chick Korea, Eddie Gomez, and Steve Gat. And they're playing a lot of uh Chicks music from the '7s. They actually play a lot of the music from uh Matt Hatter, Friends, um and three quartets, which are all three records that Eddie Gomez and Steve Gad are on together with Chick Korea. So, they're kind of recreating some of that music. And um the videos are amazing and there's a lot of great footage where you can see the kit very well. But an interesting thing, and I don't I have to find you some screen grabs. What's interesting about this kit is that for this tour anyway, Steve actually uses a 20-in bass drum. And you can kind of tell, well, I know it's not an 18 because an 18 Yamaha Maple Custom would have eight lugs per head. And you can see this drum has 10 lugs per head. So, it's at least a 20, but it doesn't look like a 22 just because of the distance between the bottoms of the toms and the top of the bass drum. Uh, so I think that that Chick may have requested that Steve play a smaller bass drum because this is acoustic jazz and, you know, it just kind of makes sense. 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It was a jazz trio with the uh very sadly recently departed Anthony Jackson on bass. of this amazing trio and they did a week at Birdland again either 96 or 97 and it was my first time seeing Steve up close and it was amazing and it was um my first time meeting him and he was so incredibly kind and friendly to me and he was playing this kit. This is actually a later photo. It's from 2002, but this was I again I don't know if this is the same kit as what we see in the uh Chikaria concert. Um but it's a wood grain. It's a very it's so we know that this is from the first year of Maple Custom production which I believe was 91 because the toms are mounted the bracket is mounted directly to the shell. And very shortly after this, I believe in '92 is when they came up with what Yamaha call the uh Yes mounts, which are the isolation mounts. Basically, it's sort of their version. It's not really a rims mount. It doesn't go around, >> you know, attaching to the uh tension rods like a rims mount does, but it's an isolation. It kind of isolates the bracket from the shell. >> Yeah. Without punching a hole into the >> Exactly. Yeah. But the first year or so of Maple Custom production had the earlier style where you have the brackets directly attached to the uh shell of the drum. So we know that this kit is from that first year of production. And again, we see that wood grain. I believe it's called black maple. I think that's what the finish was called. But that's the um that's Steve's first recording uh maple custom kit, which I think he still I'm pretty sure he still owns this kit. Um, I've seen pictures of him using it into the 2000s, which is, you know, well into the period where he has, um, the signature kit, which we'll talk about in a second. Um, in fact, in this photo, he's playing one of his signature snare drums, but he's playing this older Maple Custom kit. And, um, these photos are actually from a great video that you can see in 2002. Uh there was a um I think it was a drummers collective 20 year anniversary concert and Steve plays um plays with uh sort of an updated version of the gad gang. It's a great concert and um in these uh this is a still from a drummer world video as you can see it's got that stamp on it. >> Yep. But Steve is playing this black maple kit and uh 10 8 by 10 8 by 12. Actually, that might be, you know, I think the recording the maple customs were maybe a 7 and 1/2 by 10. I have to check my cataloges. Um, you know what? Sorry, give me one second. I This will just take me a second. I just need to check that first year catalog. Um, [snorts] oh, it's actually maybe 1990 that they released the recording the the Maple Custom. I keep saying that. Yeah. So, sorry, checking the catalog. 1990 is actually the first year of the maple custom catalog. That finish is called Black Maple. And the the 10-in tom was Yeah, it was an 8x10. So, what we're seeing is an 8x10, 8x 12, and then two power toms for his mounted floor toms. 14x uh 12x4 and um 14x 16 and then a 14x 22 bass drum and these are all maple maple custom >> beautiful drums. Obviously he was he is there any information about him being >> you know oh no I guess he would if he wanted to just keep using his recording customs he would have used them or did they was he obligated to play the latest and greatest? >> He wasn't obligated I'm sure to play anything. Um, and we see, you know, as I just saw in this catalog, the the Maple Customs were actually released or at least announced in 1990, but for that 90 1991 Paul Simon tour, he is still using recording customs. So, that was what he was comfortable with and familiar with. >> Um, but what it I'm glad you asked that because what it leads to is >> what becomes known as the signature kits. um which is this sort of hybrid kit that he starts using in the mid90s. um the earliest evidence that I could find of him using this kit because as I told you when I saw him I believe it was 96 the first time he was playing this black maple finish kit at Birdland but by the modern drummer festival in 1997 he is seen using sort of like I don't I wouldn't say it's a prototype but it's the first sort time that I see him using basically what becomes known as his signature kit. >> And we call it the signature kit because um Yamaha actually released it in um 2006. >> They they initially called it his anniversary kit. Um well, they called it the Steve Gad signature 30th anniversary kit. This was in 2006. So, we're jumping ahead, but this is when they actually sort of put it into production and started talking about the specs of the kit. But what this signature kit actually was is a maple custom. So, all of the lugs are maple custom lugs. So, they're those small uh square lugs, but the bass drum is a maple custom shell, but the toms were actually recording custom birch shells with maple custom lugs. So, that becomes for a long time Steve's sort of preferred spec of his setup. I guess he decided that he liked the extra warmth that the maple bass drum gave him, but he liked the punchiness and sort of the the shorter maybe shorter sustain >> and the less the little bit less mid-range that you get from Birch recording custom style birch tomtoms. So the tomtoms of this kit were birch. They were basically the same as the recording custom shells. So, I think that's basically what became his preference. And it's it's really interesting to me. Um, simultaneously, well, another interesting thing about this kit is that it was solid black, so similar finish to what you see on the uh on the recording custom drums, but he actually went even further and started using um drums that had black finished um rims. the the hoops of the drums are black and I think even some of the metal parts I have to look at some of these actually no um so the hoops the hoops are are black um and I believe the tension rods and the bassrum T- rods are black but >> like tom mount is normal and actually the the lugs are normal sort of chrome lugs So maple customs >> people did that for years but like 97 2001 these pictures we're looking at that was definitely >> pretty popular to do. Um >> it was starting to become more popular. That's right. Yeah. I think DW had that maybe I mean I know they later had that as an option in the 2000s but I think DW were doing that for some people. >> Yeah. >> Um it's awesome. >> Black Yeah. The Vinnie Kaluda Gretch line of drums had >> Yeah. >> Yeah. black powdercoated hardware. Um that yeah, I don't know who started that. I don't know if Steve was the first or or who who kind of started that [clears throat] trend, but yeah, that did start to become a thing. So Steve's but but an interesting distinction is that the the Maple Customs, not just Steve's, but all Maple Customs had goldplated lugs. Those little square lugs were um were goldplated or at least brassplated. Let me let me look at the catalog and see what it says. I should know this because I'm a I'm a Maple I'm a Maple Custom fan. I really really love those drums. >> Yeah, >> Maple Custom. It just says small lug. It doesn't say ah um doesn't say what their what their finish is. I'm looking at the original 1990 catalog. It's either brass or gold. I would imagine maybe it's brass because gold would be kind of expensive. >> Yeah. >> Um I think they're brassplated lugs normally on the maple customs, but Gad's signature kit has chrome finished uh lugs. I guess he preferred that look, especially with the everything else being all black. >> Sure. Um, around the same time he starts using this kit is when actually a year before, 1996 is when we see the introduction of Yamaha's Steve Gad signature snare drum line. And this to me is such an interesting thing. Um, because, you know, these are kind of a similar spec where they have black hoops, black shells, chrome finished lugs. Actually, you see the tension rods are also chrome and the throwoffs are chrome. Um, so I talked to Joe Tesa. Joe Tesa was with uh Yamaha at this time and and I think he was involved with the launch of these. Um, I also in in my interview with Steve, I asked him about these. Um he I think he had I think the idea was to have a lot of different options of different sizes and different shell types. But it sounds like Steve himself mostly used the steel shell version of these. But basically there were initially let's see 1 2 3 4 5 six different Steve Gad signature model snares which is pretty crazy. >> Yeah. >> That there were so many. And if you at any time if you go on eBay or reverb, you'll see a very sort of combination of these things. You know, people are selling all sorts of different versions. Like you can you'll see like, you know, the 13 birch is for sale or the 14, you know, steel or, you know, you'll see them different models pop up. So, I think they were all relatively equally popular, but I think Steve mostly only used the steel shell version. well received. I mean, it's I loved a >> lot. I I believe so. Yeah. I don't know. I'm sure they were well reviewed. Um I've played them. They often pop up oddly in in Europe. I I see them in Germany a fair amount with backline kits. like you know when I order my rider isn't particularly specific except for you know sizes are specific and I want Yamaha drums obviously but I request you know two when when I when I'm on tour with Curtis Stigers I ask for two snare drums >> and I'm not particularly I don't say like I want two 4x14 brass snares or something that specific just two >> highquality Yamaha snares so I usually get an interesting variety I I only use one at a time. I I ask for two to have a second as a backup in case anything goes wrong. >> So So yeah. So I I do tend to get these and I always enjoy playing them. That's cool. >> Um they're very interesting drums because well, first of all, the six models are there's a a 5x14 maple, which is a 7 ply shell, 7 mm 7 ply shell, and then a 5x13 maple with the same shell. >> Yep. Then there's a 5x14 birch and a 5x13 birch. Those have a six ply 6 mm shell. So for whatever reason they had gone with, you know, a slightly thicker the the maple shell is slightly thicker than the brass uh sorry the birch shell. So that's kind of interesting. And both of them are available as a 14 or a 13. >> And then the two metal shell drums are 5 1/2x 14 steel shell with a 1.2 2 mm shell or a 5x14 brass shell with a 1.2 mm shell. Now, knowing my taste, I probably prefer the brass shell myself. I tend to like brass better than steel, but apparently Steve likes the steel shell better. That's what he usually used. They have this this great badge that has a signature. The metal drums have an have a a what do you call that? Indentation in the middle. >> A bead. >> A bead. Thank you. Yes, they're beaded, but they're beated towards the inside, which is interesting. [snorts] A very distinctive thing about these drums, though, is they have a pretty deep snare bed, and they have these really interesting carbon steel snare wires. And that it's just a 10. There's only 10 wires, which is not very many by, you know, most sort of, you know, most snare drums have like what, 12 or even 16, I think, is a little bit more common. Um, and one of I think it was Tony Formosa told me [snorts] that Steve, you know, he tend when he was using superonics, he would play them with just their standard wires on the bottom and he would play them to the point where the wires would start to fall off. >> We've probably all seen snare drums where, you know, one of the wires is sort of broken off and the other end is hanging there. And then Steve would just have, you know, he would clip off, you know, whatever had broken off. And he would sometimes end up with not a whole lot of wires left on the snare drum, uh, on, you know, for the actual snares. And he apparently kind of liked that sound. So he requested a, you know, for these signature snares to have just 10 wires on them. >> Interesting. >> So that's kind of >> And the hoop is the rim is cut there. Normally there's like something to >> There's like a little There's like a little >> That's right. piece of metal, but it's like >> Yeah, >> maybe that's maybe that's so that they're, you know, quicker to change. You don't have to thread the uh you don't have to thread the cord, >> the little >> Yeah. >> bridge or whatever you call it. >> Yeah. I'm not actually sure. I didn't ask him about that. Um but one thing also that's really specific about these is that um some of the drums have coated ambassadors. The wood drums have coated ambassadors on the top. This is the how they're speced out, how they come from the factory. But the metal drums have Powerstroke 3 coated Powerstroke 3 heads on the tops. >> So that's kind of an interesting difference. And then what's also very interesting and very specific is that all of the drums have a Remo Diplomat on the bottom. And I guess we can talk about this, but Steve has a very strong and very specific preference for Remo Diplomat snare side heads as opposed to most of us tend to use ambassador snare side heads, right? But Steve is a stickler and insists on his snare drums having a diplomat for the bottom. And we talk about this in my interview and he's he's really adamant about this. And he also really he he he wants me to try a diplomat on my bottom snare. Like he really thinks that all drummers would end up preferring it. He thinks that it's a really superior diplomat is thinner. >> It's a single ply thinner. >> They're all thin. They're all single ply. The bottom snare head is all going to be single ply, but it's a matter of the thickness of the myar. And I see um [snorts] emperor there is an emperor snare side which is single ply but it's a thicker single ply and then there's you know most of us use an ambassador weight uh bottom head but Steve insists on a diplomat weight which is insanely thin very very very thin >> but I'm going to try one I next time I place an order with Remo I think I'm going to order a couple of diplomat snare side heads just to try them out because if Steve Gad tells you to do something >> you do No matter what it is, you got to do it. Yeah. >> So, these snares changed a little bit over the years, but this was the initial and apparently this is 1996 when the initial run of Steve Gad signature snare drums came out. >> And um these are all of the models. Yeah. So, they did change them a bit over the years, but um >> let's see. uh we can get let's uh yeah I mean we get further into when we get into the 2000s Steve is still using this you know signature kit um in various formats but one thing that starts to happen is that um in the early as or sort of mid as you start to see him um so he's touring now at this point pretty regularly with Eric Clapton he's touring um you know with James Taylor he's doing these these tours that are a little more kind of like rock band tours and he starts to find apparently he's experimenting with tom sizes and he starts to lean a little bit towards instead of using a 10 and a 12 as his main rack toms he starts starting to favor a 12 and a 13 with these heavier rock gigs and you see him use this these uh setup um these sizes with Clapton but also So when he's doing in 2007208 he starts doing um what they called mission from Gad which was a clinic tour that Yamaha and Zilchin co-sponsored and a lot of the time on the mission from Gad uh clinics you see him using 12 and 13 again with his you know signature kit setup. um 12 and 13 as his as his two racktoms, which is, you know, kind of his Clapton set that he ends up favoring for a while. Um, which is pretty interesting. um especially considering that he is really the guy who popularized the 10 and 12 as we mentioned before, but he kind of goes back to what had been a little bit more of an old-fashioned setup of 12 and 13 just to get a little, you know, deeper tones, lower pitched, a little bit more volume, a little bit heavier sound, which probably does work a little better with Clapton. Um, but speaking of Clapton, there is there's some interesting photos where in 2004 he did a little bit of touring with Clapton where he was really getting experimental with his drum sizes and he does this a few dates in in Europe with Clapton in 2004 where he's using really enormous racktoms, >> huge. And I'm not exactly sure if this is a 13 and a 14 or even a 14 and 15. And then you can see he's using a regular floor tom as opposed to a mounted floor tom. And I don't know if he has two floor toms or just one, but that might be a 16in floor tom. And it also looks like he might be using a 20-in bass drum here, >> which adds to the [snorts] >> large look of a tom obviously having it makes the toms Yeah, it makes the toms look even bigger, but These are some sort of power tom that I mean it's very strange. It's it's very interesting. It might have just been like you know maybe he was >> just a little bored wanted to try something different or if he was experimenting with heavier sounding tom sizes for whatever reason during this year. But yeah, he's he's this is another period of time where he's this is another photo from that tour >> that same date. I think it's from Munich where he's really experimenting. I mean, you can barely see him over these giant tongms, but he's really experiment. I mean, he's I think he's always been an experimental guy, but he's really getting into, you know, he's still at this point >> still experimenting and still trying different things and still, I think, inspired by different setups and different sounds. Um, again, you can see this is the signature kit where you have the solid black shells with black rims, black hoops, and chrome finished uh maple custom style lugs. Um, so yeah, it kind of interesting stuff. There's a video of um Eric Clapton from around this time period uh where they're doing um there's this documentary about this album he made. I forget the name of the album, but it's uh they're doing all songs associated with uh um what's the uh Robert Johnson. That's the blues like blues legend, right? Robert Johnson. >> Um >> and in the video you could see him actually using a fourpiece kit, just one rack tom, one floor tom, and a bass drum. It's sort of a stripped down all acoustic type of a album. and and you know they're sort of running through these tunes in this video and Gad's using just a four piece kit, but you can see the rack tom is very big. It's like a 13 or I think it's a 13 power tom and then there's a big regular floor tom uh in this period. And this is around the time that I start to see him starting to use regular floor toms sometimes. It's sort of in the mid to late as that he starts to transition a little bit away from using now you see on this 2008 mission from GAD he's using mounted floor toms on this uh uh clinic but around the same time let me see if this is uh no that's mounted floors >> while you're looking does he >> prefer the flexibility or the look of a mount counted or the resonance difference. >> I'm not sure what led him to I'm not really sure like whether it was a resonance thing. I I feel like it was probably a resonance thing and probably having to do with like uniformity in sound between the four toms that if they're, you know, all mounted in some way, like if they're all on a stand that they would have a little bit more consistency from drum to drum and just have different >> same style of mounting cuz famously you do lose some. There's the whole thing where Don Lombardi is like, "If you don't if you want to change the resonance of your floor tom, flip the leg upside down and and all those tricks." But, um, I've I I used to have a mounted um DW floor tom uh when I did the poor man's, you know, buy a floor tom, buy a tom, buy a bass drum, piece together a kit, but >> they can be a little unruly. I mean, Steve Gad's obviously got the best hardware on Earth and people's helping him set it up. For me, it was like, "God, this thing keeps falling over and my mount wasn't strong enough and it was dropping." And >> it's really interesting. It's so funny that you you are bringing these things up. It's almost as though you've already seen my interview with Steve Gad, but he >> it was like two months ago that I watched it. So, give me, you know, >> he addresses this exact quandry that you were talking about. It's it's I mean it's like I I'll you know I I could explain it to you what he but but I think everybody should just watch episode three which episode 3 is just going to be my interview with Steve >> and he explains exactly why he transitioned kind of away from mound of floor toms into regular floor toms you know on legs. Here's a photo. This is much more recent 2015 from the UK drum show. But this is also sort of this a version of the signature kit. And you see mounted floor toms 14 and 16 mounted uh sorry you see regular floor toms on this kit. 14 and 16 on >> he certainly likes that like uh >> the tilt right. >> What was what I mean I'm trying to think of the angle of that so people you know listening online can or I'm sorry listening >> the the floors are they're angled very much towards him. Yeah. They're not flat. They're not like a tabletop. >> They're flat mounted. So that you know basically you know they kind of I think the idea is for them to follow the angle of the stick you know and when his stick >> when he's hitting a a drum >> like this he wants the tom to be angled towards him so that it matches the angle that the stick is coming in as opposed to if he was sitting higher. That's where it makes more sense for the drums to be flat because you're higher up. The end of your stroke is more where the where the stick is at a 90° angle, the same angle as the floor. >> It's not even a a little bump up in the or a little lower in the front and a little bump in the back. It's like a dramatic bump in the back. He's got it's like they're shooting up at him like he's got a really cool It looks cool, >> right? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I I sat at his kit once. Um, I happened to be at the Yamaha Los Angeles drum the the Los Angeles headquarters of Yamaha drums and he had just filmed a promo video >> um on his recording custom set. They keep I guess they keep one of his kits at the uh at that facility in in in Los Angeles. And um they had they he had just filmed something for them in the room. So, the kit was still set up and it was still sort of at his angles and to his sort of setup spec. And I sat behind it and it actually I mean it's definitely you're sitting low. The drums are kind of set up in front of you like like I mentioned before, but it was actually pretty comfortable for me. I don't really set up like that, but it all made a lot of sense to me. It actually didn't feel particularly awkward to me to play. Um, so that was interesting. Um, but just to look at some of these kits a little more. Um there are some other interesting details. Um he has also started to favor using a 20-in bass drum again. Um somewhat more, you know, again getting into the as early sort of 2010s. Um here is another clinic photo. And you can see the way that I know that this is a 20-in bass drum is that he discovered that he liked a 20-in bass drum on a riser. >> Yeah. >> And Yamaha make these interesting risers. Yeah. Which are they're Yamaha's risers are basically sort of like well the early versions anyway were like another bass drum hoop with a couple of like sort of attachments to the bottom of the normal bassrum hoop. And you can see that the in order to accommodate this, you have to lengthen the you have to use the spurs of the bass drum all sort of all the way out at their maximum length. >> Yeah, that's probably three or four inches off the ground or something. >> Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Well, he he uh >> he talks about this a bit in the interview um that I did with him about why he prefers that and and just that that's sort of become his thing at least. I mean, he'll still use a 22, I think, in certain times, maybe with Clapton. Um, but I believe when I saw him recently with James Taylor, I'm pretty sure the kit had a 20 now that I think about it. Very great sounding bass drum. Like really, when I saw him with James Taylor, the bass drum was was super tight and punchy sounding and really suited the way Steve played and really suited the gig and suited the sound of the band. Um, sure. >> So, yeah, this photo is from 2008. There's this other photo that I showed you a minute ago where you see the regular floor toms from 2015. >> I don't know if this is the same kit with different floor toms, but you can see very clearly you can see the riser. >> Yep. Oh, yeah. >> That the that the pedal is attached to there. >> Yep. Um, and that kind of leads me into the latest version of the um of the uh the Maple, sorry, of the recording customs. But before we talk about that, I want to talk about the revised versions of the snare drums. So, in 2005, they changed the snare drum models and added these different versions that have wood hoops and slightly well, it's basically they they they so they got rid of the 13-in sizes and then they they they went down to offering only a maple, a birch, and a seal. They also got rid of the brass drum. And they have a new badge. You could see like a different badge than that. The the other ones, the original ones had kind of a square badge that looked more like the maple custom badge. But these hoops are really, really interesting to me. >> Um, they're the standard Yamaha black uh standard Yamaha wood hoops that they had at the time, but finished in black, which I think looks really awesome. And they have these really interesting the bottom hoops were actually sort of I don't know if it's an octagon or I guess whatever tetragon right is 10-sided because these have 10 10 lugs per head. So they would have sort of 10 >> like sides and the idea >> it's it's boom boom round. Yeah. [snorts] >> And that's just for the bottom head. And the idea is so that it will fit on a snare drum stand easier. H. Um, yeah, that's the that's the idea. Vintage hoops with cuts for easy mounting on a snare stand. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> The the top hoop. It's just I always like that. There's other, you know, drums that have it where like it's like the it looks like the um tension rods are counter sunk a little bit where like it goes in. They're not they're not sticking up, which is cool. Sleek look. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, also interesting to note is that all three of these drums now have a Power Stroke 3 coded Powerstroke 3 head as standard. Before, if you remember that the the 1996 versions of the signature snares had coded Ambassadors on the wood drums, Powerstroke 3es on the metal drums. Now all three drums, wood and metal, have Powerstroke 3s, >> which I think at this point had become Steve's preference. I guess I should also mention since we're kind of talking about heads as we go, it was also around the mid90s that Steve started to prefer, again going back to using coded ambassadors mostly on his toms. Now, he continues to prefer using a clear power uh sorry, a clear pinstripe actually on the bass drum. Um you can kind of see that here. This is back to the 97 Modern Drummer Festival. But I remember when I saw him at Birdland, he had coated heads on the maple custom toms. And but back when we when we go back to '92, the Chakaria tour, you can't really see them in these photos, but you can see in the video that he's got pinstripes on his initial set of, you know, he's using Maple Customs in the early '9s. He still has pinstripes, which is what he was using previously on recording customs, but by 9697, he's preferring >> um uh coated uh ambassadors, which is an interesting thing. You know, great heads and a very different sound than clear pinstripes. Really different sound, more attack, >> um simultaneously a little thinner, but also more warm, uh more warmth. So, yeah, very interesting. um change and that's kind of what he stuck with. I mean, all of these photos I have of different variants of his signature kit. Actually, this one in 2007, this is a tour he did with the Jazz Crusaders. He's actually got a coded ambassador on the bass drum, >> which is very interesting. It's not a setup you often see him. And he's got a coded ambassador on the snare. He doesn't have a power stroke three here. >> So, he's again still experimenting. >> This looks like the 12 and 13 mounted toms. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's Yeah, that's right. Thank you for reminding me. >> Um around so this is a turning point actually when we talk about 9697 when he starts using the signature kit. He also as I said this is when the signature snare drums come into play. An interesting thing about the signature snare drums is once they come out you never see Steve using a superonic again. These signature snares as soon as they came out have effectively entirely replaced Steve's, you know, up until this point career long use of a Lewig Superonic. He has used a Lewig Superic since at least 7475. You can see it in that um Saturday Night Live >> uh you know those those screenshots that I showed you. Um you can see a superonic there. So from 75 20 years until 95 he's using superonics all the time. Um and you know the once the signature snares come out this basically replaces that for him. And I've never seen him use anything other than his signature snares. You know when he has his own drums. Yeah actually that's not always the case their own snare. >> That's absolutely true. and he does seem to really like them and he does seem to be really happy with them. You see them in all of these photos. Um >> yeah, it is. Yeah, good. I'm glad he's he's happy with those. Um but around the same time, and again, the first time I saw him in 96, he starts to get into using a Yamaha double pedal. And this is interesting because this also replaces the his longtime again career-long use of the Gretch Floating Action/Camco pedal. He had used that pedal all the way through. He was apparently using it on, you can't really see it here, but on [snorts] the 1991 um uh Paul Simon Rhythm of the Saints tour, he is um still using his Camco or Gretch floating action pedal in that period. But by the time he switches to using his signature snares and using his uh Maple Custom Signature kit, he has started using, you see it a little bit here, he started using a Yamaha double pedal. >> And it's very interesting. He uses the pedal in a different way than a lot of people. He kind of develops his own language as a double pedal player. And the best place to see what he does with it is I mentioned a little bit earlier the mission from Gad tour uh 2008 or so doing this these clinic tours. There's a video that you can get of him uh at um in New York at Manhattan School of Music uh doing they filmed a full mission from God clinic and the whole clinic is wonderful and um somebody asks him to demonstrate, you know, I ask him about the double pedal and he spends a good amount of time kind of talking about it and demonstrating some of the things that he some of the language that he has come up with using this double pedal. And it's really interesting stuff. Um, watch the video. But he talks about how he's not really comfortable playing right, left, right, left, right, left, right, left, 16th notes. Yeah. But that he likes playing right, right, left, right, right, left, right, right, left, right, right, left. But phrased as 16th notes. Like if you're going one, two, D, right, right, left, right, right, left, right, right, left, right, like that, which is and then plays he does that and then plays all kinds of stuff with his hands over it. It's actually pretty amazing and really challenging. >> Yeah. Seems harder than >> pretty. >> Yes. Yes. But apparently for him that's easier. So, you know, can't argue with Steve. Yeah, >> of course. Yeah. Um, [snorts] so before we get to back to the recording customs and that sort of relaunch there relaunch, um, sometimes you see Steve playing sort of a it's almost like a negative, you know, like a photo negative version of his signature kit. He apparently there's a there's a kit floating out there that he uses sometimes that is white maple custom Steve Gad style signature kit finished in white with powdercoated sort of it's sort of like gunmetal gray >> Mhm. >> hardware. And I I don't know if this is a one-off kit that was made for Steve or made for somebody else. But I believe this kit resides in Rochester, which is Steve's hometown. And whenever, not all the time, but often when he plays in Rochester, this is the kit that is brought to him to play. And maybe he just has somebody in Rochester that keeps this kit for him, or he knows somebody in Rochester who owns this kit and brings it out for him to play. This is another thing that I forgot to ask Steve. Um I It's funny. I I'm always apologizing in these in this podcast for like, oh, I forgot to ask Steve this. I forgot to ask Steve that. I did ask him a lot. You will see there's a lot of stuff covered. >> But um but there are some things that I it was a combination of either me forgetting to ask him or I didn't I also was careful. I I was conscious of not wanting to overwhelm him with too many questions. you flow with the conversation and you also can't take up, >> you know, six hours of time, which we're happy to do with each other, but uh >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so anyway, yeah. So, so there's there are a few >> there are a few variants out there like this one and people had had mentioned this actually in I think some of the comments to the first video. I was like, "Oh, what about this white maple custom kit?" So, that is out there, too. Don't really know anything about it, but just to acknowledge that that exists. Um, there are also some kits out there like here, um, is basically what what looks like a Steve Gad signature kit. Black toms with black powdercoated, um, hoops, but with absolute style Yamaha lugs as opposed to the maple custom style lugs. So there may be one or two of these kits floating around too that Steve uses whenever he's you know maybe maybe one of these kits is in Japan or maybe one of these kits is in Europe or something and it gets sent out when he's over there. There's another photo from 2015 where we see this is actually pretty interesting. If you notice the first Tom has absolute lugs, the second Tom has maple custom style lugs. And you can also see completely different badges. >> The first tom. Yeah. The first tom says Yamaha custom drums >> and it's [clears throat] a gold badge. The second Tom is actually a Steve Gad custom model um badge. >> So, >> yeah, I mentioned this in passing earlier, but in 20 in 2006, Yamaha actually released a limited run of the Steve Gad signature kit. Um, and it was commemorating Steve signed officially as a Yamaha artist in 1976. So, it was commemorating the 30th anniversary of his uh, becoming a Yamaha artist. And this was basically the same spec as what he used, which is, you know, um, a Steve Gad signature 5 1/2x4 snare, a 14x 22 maple custom bass drum, and then the 10, 12, 14, and 16. Oh, this is interesting. I'm looking this is actually the press release and they actually list this as the 10 and the 12 being maple rack toms and the 12 the 14 and 16 floor toms being birch but my understanding was all of the toms were birch not just the not just the floor toms. So, this may be a mistake, or maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought that all of his toms were birch and the bass drum was maple. But >> it wouldn't be the first time that a press release or a catalog had something wrong. >> Yeah. And what's interesting, too, is all toms have chrome maple custom style lugs with black hoops. And the snare drum features black chrome aluminum diecast hoops. Um, in some of the photos it looks like the Tom Some of the photos the Tom hoops look like um triple flanged hoops that would have been standard for the Maple Customs >> or um but some Yeah, that's what we see here. But I think there were other photos like this kit. Yeah, this kit has diecast hoops. Aluminum diecast teams. Looks like >> this is 2015. Yeah, this is shortly before the recording customs are re-released. This is a 10 and a 12 14 and 16 floor toms. This looks like it's probably a 20-in bass drum. This is all kind of standard for his signature kit except that the hoops on the toms are um die cast as opposed to triple flange. Another interesting thing about this is he has coated ambassadors on the bottoms of the rack toms and probably the floor toms as well. That's another thing you start to see him experimenting with a bit around 2015 or so. Um oh this is the same kit. Oh yeah, this is actually I think that this photo is from the rehearsals for the UK drum show and this photo is actually from the UK drum show. So it's the same kit. Yeah, you see coated heads on the bottoms of all the toms, 20-in bass drum and diecast hoops. So there are a lot of variants of this signature kit floating around for him. >> Yeah. Um, now [snorts] one last thing to cover with his kits is in 2016. I think they were actually released in 2017, but the here's an interesting photo of him um when they were sort of developing the new recording customs. And this photo is apparently from 2016. This is Steve in Japan apparently with some Yamaha drum sort of developers. Um, I don't know any of these gentlemen, but um, >> yeah, >> what we see is a >> um, what looks like a Steve Gad signature bass drum on the far right here. That's his spec, black with the with the chrome lugs. And then he's testing a couple of different um, recording custom bass drums. And it seems to me and he's pointing to one of them is just to say, "Yeah, this one is my favorite >> or maybe yeah, this one is not." Yeah, seriously. So, they have a few different specs. You know, they they were experimenting with, you know, when they redesigned the recording customs, likely experimenting with, you know, different ply layups, different, you know, just trying different things. And they they what they went with ultimately [snorts] um with the recording custom redesign when they came out was actually using weighted lugs in the bass drum um that they found that having weights inside the lugs actually helped to make the sound better. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I know. Yeah. Very interesting. >> Lot of technology. I mean Japan is known for their >> Yes. >> innovative technology. >> They are. and Yamaha particularly are so innovative and and just put so much thought into everything that they do. Um, that's one of the things that I love about them. And they they take their time with everything they do. They don't hurry. Um, you know, they will take years to develop a new line if they need to. If they're not ready, they won't rush things out, which I think is great. Um, and a very interesting thing about this photo though is that in the background, you see a whole bunch of snare drums. >> And what I see on the far right there is what looks like right by Steve's head, I think is a Steve Gad signature snare. on the floor. The first on on the right by Steve's elbow, I think is an aluminum Yamaha snare, which is looks similar to what they released as the Yamaha recording custom aluminum snare, which is actually my personal favorite snare drum that Yamaha make right now is the aluminum recording custom snare. It's a really great sounding snare, and I also love it because it weighs almost nothing and it's really easy to shle around New York City. But all of these other snare drums lying on the floor, there's like four snares on the floor and one snare on a stand. I'm not sure, but these all kind of look like Lewig Superonics to me. >> They do. >> And I wouldn't be surprised if maybe that was kind because that was a favorite of Steve's for so long that that was a model of, you know, what they were going for. So, this is actually unrelated to the recording customs, but I found a couple interesting photos of Steve playing at Carnegie Hall in both 2018 and 2019. Um, playing a very sort of small version of his Maple Custom Kit. Well, they're actually, you'll see, they're actually two different kits. So, this photo is from 2018 and the toms look to be from that. I I see the the wood grain finish. Oh, and also we don't have Yes mounts on the the toms. >> Sure. >> But we have a very small bass drum and I think this is a 20. This might be the same >> pieces of the same kit that he brought to Europe with Chick Korea back in '92. and he has one of his signature snares, one floor tom, a regular 14-inch floor tom. And then a year later, he played at Carne Hall again 2019. And now we have basically the same setup we saw before, but this is a this is his signature kit spec out. So 10 and 12 rack toms, a single 14x maybe a 13x4 floor tom. Um, and then probably a 20-in bass drum. So, you know, playing a room like this, this is actually the I forget the name of this this uh this is actually a smaller recital hall within Carnegie Hall. It's this isn't the main >> Carnegie Hall stage. Yeah, I've played this this this little recital hall. It's actually really beautiful and it does look like a miniature Carne Hall. Um this is Mika Stoultzman uh who is a amazing uh MIMA player and her husband um Richard Stoultzman who is a a world-class clarinet player. Eddie Gomez on bass. So for this this is a very live room playing very acoustic music. Eddie Gomez has a very small amp. We can assume that Steve wanted to kind of keep the volume down. He only has one symbol in this photo. keep the volume down and use a smaller version of his kit, 20-inch bass drum, one floor tom, >> uh, to cover this music and to play, you know, to make it work in that in that venue. Um, so Steve was very Steve was instrumental in getting the recording customs reissued and um, I guess it was 2016 when they came out because I have these photos that I took at the Blue Note in 2016 where he's playing these kit uh, playing the new recording customs. You know, the recording customs, were they ever actually I'm trying to think when the last catalog was when the Recording Customs were actually made, uh, the originals, but they were redesigned in 2016. The lugs were changed a little bit. Um, shells and edges and everything were kind of changed and updated. Um, but they still really retain that original recording custom sort of magic. Um, but I think they're even better now than they used to be. I really love playing the new recording customs. I don't own a set of them, but I play them a lot as backline and I really like them. And and Steve was, you know, a big part of the promotion of of, you know, when they came out. And um, I went to see Steve right around the time they came out. He played at the Blue Note with Chick Korea. These are photos I took from behind his kit at the Blue Note in 2016. And you know that these are sort of like the blue stage lights before the band comes on. So it's not the best lighting. >> Yeah. Blackage. Um >> yeah 10 12 a single 14-in floor Tom. He doesn't have the 16. And you know again I'll let him explain why. But basically it's a small stage. He didn't have room for the 16. So he only has one floor. Tom. I know this kind of um I when I was talking about Asia before and I said, you know, when Steve has all of his toms, he usually plays all of them. This is an example of him not having all of his toms. Yeah. >> But yeah, this is sort of that five piece setup that nowadays he does sometimes use when he is, you know, he doesn't have a lot of space. But um this is the 16 by20 uh recording custom bass drum which is on a riser. Um again to Steve spec, you know, he was when when they redesigned the Recording Customs, Steve insisted that the 20-in bass drum be made with a riser because he really feels that the drum sounds better that way. Not the 22 and not the 18. Interestingly, 18, just the 20. Yeah. So the the 20 comes standard with a riser. Um so a little a slight difference here. So Steve's using coded ambassadors actually with the Yamaha logo, but they are coded ambassadors by Remo. The bass drum here, he actually has a Power Stroke 3 coated, which is different cuz I've usually always seen him with a clear pinstripe. Um, an interesting little tidbit about the bass drum pedal. He's got his double pedal, but you'll notice that he actually has a wood beater for the left. He has a regular Yamaha felt beater for the main pedal, the right pedal, but the left slave pedal actually has a uh a wood beater. >> Is that just a different sound? >> I think so. I think I asked him about this, but the answer was a little bit non-committal other than just confirming that that's what he did. >> Um he uh he he, you know, just for some reason prefers it. Maybe it feels, you know, it's a little bit heavier or just has a little bit of a different feeling. >> Um >> or if it's strictly a sound thing, but that is something that he that he goes for. Now, >> when I do it, it's cuz I broke one and I don't want to buy a new one. When he does it, There's a very valid reason. >> That's an entirely good reason. >> Um I also went to see him in 2017 also at the Blue Note, >> also with um Chick Korea. >> And interestingly, at this gig, he's back to using his signature kit, >> not recording customs. He actually has his signature kit here. Uh 10, 12, 14, 16. He did manage to find room to bring the uh 16inch floor tom. Um, same pedal spec, >> uh, double pedal with a wood beater in the left. Same bass drum spec with a coated, uh, Powerstroke 3 as opposed to the pinstripe. >> Yep. 5000 high hat. [snorts] >> Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. Like he often is seen for kind of the last 20 years or so, he will often be seen using a DW high hat stand. Um, [snorts] some of these photos I think you'll see that. Um, and I again I don't really know why other than he probably just liked it. Here, here's 2001. This is also at the Blue Note with Chick Korea, but this is from way back in 2001. I didn't take this photo. An interesting little tidbit here is for some reason he's got his signature kit, but the 10 is a black uh the black maple 10. Hm. >> I don't know why, but that's what he used that day. Later in that week, here's another photo from the Blue Note in 2010, uh, 2001. >> Everything is the same, except now he does have the signature 10. So, sometime later in that week, he got the 10 back. Maybe he broke a head on it. >> Sure. >> Or something. Or maybe the backline guy brought the wrong 10-in tom. You know, easy mistake to make, I would imagine. Um, but yeah, a lot of these photos, let's see here. Yeah, this photo from 2007 Crusaders Tour Yamaha 5000 high hat stand. Sorry, DW 5000 high hat stand. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Um, yeah. I don't know why. >> Here he's got a Yamaha in 2008. Yeah. >> I think it's just kind of like he had a couple different things and >> yeah, this is all Yamaha. Um, I guess he likes that. Um, he seems to like that DW pedal. I know that now he's using the latest model of the the Yamaha. Um, Yamaha just somewhat recently in the last couple of years updated their um, bass drum pedals and high pedals. They have a new sort of very high-end. I think the bass drum pedal is FP7 and maybe the high pedal is HH7 or HP7. Um, they're very, very good. very sort of advanced technologically. Um, and um, yeah, that's what Steve has been using ever since those came out a year or two ago. Um, and he talks a little bit about that in my interview with him. >> Um, so I think >> we've more or less Oh, one other thing I could show you. Here's a good photo of him in 2023 recording at Power Station with a new set of recording customs. Um, you can see again the 20-in bass drum with the riser. Um, but you can see him using these drums. You know, he's has them out in action at a at a recording session. >> Mhm. >> Um, here's a very recent photo from 2025, the Paul Simon Tour. He did a he did a short tour with Paul Simon earlier this year. And on this tour, he's got his recording customs. But what's the new recording customs was very interesting is he only has one rack tom. You can see he only has an eight a single 8 by 12 rack tom, two floor toms, and no 10-in tom, and just generally no second rack tom at all. >> He's got one of his signature snares here. Um, and you're going to have to wait for his uh interview to find out why because I did remember to ask him why did he use just one rack to he tells me. So watch the interview to get the answer. It's pretty interesting. Yeah. Here's another recent photo from 2024 where you can see him using the the latest versions of the Yamaha bass drum. The double pedal. Yeah, those are great pedals. I have the single pedal version of this and I really love it. Um, he's got the double pedal version. You can also see he's got the high hat stand, the the latest high hat stand. Um, [snorts] >> and yeah, 10, 12, 14, 16. >> Moon gel recording. >> Yeah, Moonong's tape, you know. Yeah, he's very like, you know, he'll work with the soundman. He'll work on like, you know, whatever the room is. He'll kind of, you know, fine-tune his toms both tuning wise, but also muffling wise, uh, for whatever whatever works in the room. he's he's happy to to make some changes and make some alterations. Uh so, you know, just to circle back a little bit to some of the backline kits or actually very at the very beginning, let's talk about um I think I showed you this photo of of um Steve in this 1985. >> You know, these are these are those turboiz power toms. This was a kit that Steve never actually really used. Although I mean I think he there's some there's some videos of him using backline kits that are power toms like all power toms. Um but you know sometimes he would he would do a photo shoot for Yamaha where he would be seen using a kit that wasn't necessarily his kit. There was a a Maple Custom ad that I remember seeing all the time in Modern Drummer where he's playing he's he's you know seen in this photo with a kit that he never used. You know, this the again a 10 x 10 power tom, 10 x 12 power tom. These are clearly brand new ziljans, not his symbols. You know, it's just kind of like, you know, he did a photo shoot for them, the maple customs, but it's not really his setup. >> Um, but also a couple little funny kits that I have photos of him playing. Uh, he appeared at Pac in 2012. Um, and the kit, this was just something that Yamaha brought. This isn't Steve's kit at all, but he used this little kit with this funny little setup with a just a single 10-in tom, a single 14-inch floor tom, the bass drum. Not sure if that's a 20 or a 22. >> Looks good, >> just a bass drum. Yeah. And and then a a wood snare drum. This is a Yamaha Club custom kit. Uh which, you know, this is not a setup that or even a line that Steve ever used. Um but it's just something that he played at PAC. This this is a very unique kit because they put wood hoops on it, which also was not normal spec for the club customs, but just a kit that he happened to play that one day that he seemed to enjoy playing. Um, but you sometimes see photos of him with that kit. It's not not his kit, not even really his setup, but you know, it's something he used at that event. >> Uh, another time I happened to be lucky to see him was in 2019. Uh he played a week at Birdland with a uh pianist whose name um he's actually a a well-known pianist in the 70s and 80s named David Matthews. Unrelated to Dave Matthews, the singer, songwriter, and guitarist. Um David Matthews is a uh pianist and writer. And you know, he he lives in Japan now, but he he did a he did a week at Birdland with um his old buddies Eddie Gomez and Steve Gad. used to record with these guys all the time in the 70s and 80s. And when Steve did this week, he played, again, this is another club custom kit. This is the house kit, one of the house kits at Birdland. Um, and Steve used, again, a 10-in rack tom, 14-in floor tom, 20-in bass drum. Just stuff he kind of pieced together from the ve, you know, they have kind of a shell bank of these club custom drums at Birdland. And Steve just kind of pieced these together from what they had there. He did bring his own snare. That's one of his signature snares. I'm not exactly sure which one, but you can see the case for it down here. >> And he's got his sticks and stuff on that case. But this is a very stripped down setup for Steve. He's only got two symbols and high hats. >> Um, but this is just kind of like a little club gig, you know, there for a week. >> I mean, he can play anything. We've we've seen him play that that tape box in an instructional tape. I mean, he could be he could play anything and sound fantastic. >> Of course. Of course. Yeah. And sometimes does just play a very sort of stripped down setup, not really his normal sort of setup, but this is just, you know, what he used that week. So, you know, it's it's uh it's interesting to see. And, you know, he always sounds like Steve Gad. He sounded great this week. you know, I I went to see him a couple times that week and it was it was wonderful to see him, you know, and it was cool to see him play that setup, but >> it was 100% Steve Gad, you know. Yep. >> It's not and nothing is going to be uh >> nothing's going to slow him down. >> Yep. >> Absolutely. All right. Well, uh Paul and I took a little uh you know, a sidebar and then said to our we kind of discussed that we're we want to do symbols and sticks and just cowbell accessories and we are uh we started at 10:00 a.m. and it's now almost 100 p.m. So, we are going to uh which I think everyone actually enjoys. We're going to push symbols and sticks and accessories and whatever else and maybe kind of we usually discuss things we learned on the previous episode after it comes out uh to a part three. Then the GAD um interview that we've discussed and uh you know talked about throughout these these two episodes will be part four. >> Episode 3 might end up being 3 hours just talking about his cowbell knowing the way that [laughter] I go, >> you know. And then we're going to have to do we'll have to do episode four is going to be on his left stick >> and episode five is going to be on his right hand stick. Yeah. >> Right. >> That's the kind of detail that we're known for. >> Yep. >> Anybody who was waiting for symbols in this episode, I apologize. I really thought that we were going to get to them, but you know, I guess it took longer to to deal with the uh signature snares and maple customs and everything as well as what we started out with talking about the drums on Asia, talking about different backline, updating the recording customs. So, yeah, sorry. It's I I think people appreciate this detail. I hope you do. >> Yeah. >> Um, so yeah, next episode will be symbols. >> Uh, and we'll talk, you know, we'll talk about his old K's. We'll talk about the modern KS. We'll talk about his session line stuff that he's using nowadays. And then I I'm very excited to talk about the sticks. I'm particularly nerdy about Steve sticks and the evolution of, you know, the various signature sticks that he's used. So, I can't wait for that episode. But yes, that will be the next one. >> That'll be cool. You know, it's I'd rather not rush and have people go, "Wow, you really skipped a lot of stuff at the end there." Um, which which this happens literally every time. So, you think we would learn after >> nine episodes or whatever we've done on this stuff. So, um but it's all good. I get to spend more time with Paul and um which is always fun. And >> thank you. >> If you enjoyed this, um be sure to comment. >> We love reading that. It helps and subscribe and all that stuff. But really, we love reading the comments. >> Yeah, like and subscribe. And also, please if anybody has if if I've made mistakes that you know, oh, he didn't use this. it's actually this you know please comment or you know get in touch with us tell us it's it's very helpful and and some of these things have been um you know I as we did in the beginning of this episode um Maro had sent me those great uh screenshots from the SNL episode that show the heads on the uh the early heads that he used on the pearl fiberglass toms. That's so helpful. So thank you to everybody who's who's contributed to this and added things. So, please continue to do so if anybody knows info about the maple custom drums that I skipped or missed out on or about the signature snares, you know, it's all it's all really great. So, thank you to the community for for adding to this. >> Yep. Absolutely. Lots to look forward to. Um again, subscribe, you can stay informed. Uh check out part one if you haven't done that. And um I'll put all Paul's info. you can you can check the description of where to find him and all that stuff and and see his schedule um with the links down there. Um so Paul, on that note, my friend, I look forward to part three. Um so Paul, thank you my friend. >> All right. Thank you, Bart. [music] [music]